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TWLEpisode39: Protection Magick with David ShiMon, 6/29 10:00AM ? 1:20:00SUMMARY KEYWORDSpeople, spirits, protection, witch, magic, shaman, practices, life, full moon, spiritual, witchcraft, david, energy, podcast, witches, good, north, animals, cleansing, daySPEAKERSKanani, Intro music, Courtney , Hilary, David Shi, (Exit Music)Intro music 00:0320 years ago, three young friends realized they were witches. They scattered to different parts of the world, following magic and spirit. Now, they're back in their hometown to share what they've learned. Welcome to That Witch Life Podcast. Your home for living as a witch in today's world.Courtney 00:48Hail and welcome everybody to another episode of that wish life podcast, I am Courtney and I am hosting today and I am joined by HilaryHilary 00:56 Hello!Courtney 00:57And KananiKanani 00:58HelloCourtney 00:58Today's episode is going to be about protection magic, which is what I have found through teaching magic is probably one of the more popular subjects. I think that was the one witchcraft class that I was teaching that sold out. I thought it would be love spells or money spells, but no, it was protection. So we have a really, really fascinating witch coming on in a little while named David Shi. He's an old friend of mine and definitely one of the smartest people I know. So I'm looking forward to him sharing his wisdom with us today. And circling back with my friends, I've actually gotten to spend more time with the two of you in person than we have spent together in the last three months over the past few days, which has been really fun. Social distancing orders in effect, masks, not bumping up on each other doing everything safely. But we didn't actually spend the solstice together. So what did you each do for the summer solstice.Hilary 01:54So I did on on the evening of the 20th I set up an altar outside and sat until the sun went down. And I used the combination of, so I did some candle magic, I also wrote down some intentions and then I brought out that crystal that we had previously used during the winter solstice.Courtney 02:28Right when you were at the airport and holding it up in the airport Hilary 02:30That I was like trying desperately to get to a corner of the terminal I was in like just to actually be able to see the suriseCourtney 02:39I must be at the window before dawn window before dawn, Hilary 02:43Listen TSA you're gonna need to get me through here faster... hahaha So I took that same old crystal and put that back out and I also put some of my other crystals that I that I use regularly out. Um, and yeah, that you know, my My intentions were again, and we talked about this before, but and I think I said that this is what I was going to be working on what was shedding light on, um, kind of twofold one for some things that I'm working on and, and trying to develop in my life creatively. So shedding light on that, and then I had another section of the altar setup for, you know, to shine light on social justice issues specifically around Black Lives Matter and to try and, you know, shed light on, on being able to get people's voices heard more. And so I kind of had those two things. And so I sat, I sat until the sun went down and then the next morning when the sun came up, I went back out there and did really like a gratitude offering to ancestors and basically had tea with my ancestors and the dog.Courtney 03:53Oh, nice. Hilary 03:55So that was really nice.Courtney 03:57Oh, I love that, Kanani, did you do anything for summer solstice?Kanani 04:00 I didn't do too much. I did a little bit of candle just lighting candles, and I also watched the Stonehenge, the sunrise and the sunset. Hilary 04:11Oh yeah, it was coolKanani 04:12That they had put out which I thought was just amazing and just pretty much solidified that I have to see it in person someday. Um, but I didn't do too much for the solstice with everything going on, energetically, I just sometimes I've, I've been having a really hard time just everyday just feels like the next day and the day before and it just is hard. But one of the things I've noticed is I've had a huge energy spike since the solstice. I don't know I feel like I'm starting to kind of come back to me again a little bit more. And I have noticed that it completely coincided with the solstice, which is just when I kind of started piecing that together. I thought that was very Interesting but I just I it was it's very strange because I look back and it's just kind of like I said every day just feels like the other day and the day before and and I'm starting to notice that I'm starting to perk up and I'm starting to kind of call people more and think about what you know Oh look, I have no appropriate clothes to wear maybe I should get appropriate clothes to wear. I don't know I'm just noticing definitely an uptick in my energy level as well as kind of my awareness of of life I guess you could say.Courtney 05:37I think that that's true for a lot of witches and that when you start, that's something that Raven Grimassi, the late Raven Grimassi, said that it's that by following the cycles of the seasons is where witch can really gain their power. And while there are lots of ways to gain the power as a witch, I do agree that that is one of them which is in and even if you can't do a full ritual, it time doing something as simple as, as acknowledging it, I think can can really be helpful to the work. I was really lucky this year and that two of my very dearest friends, Wendy and Shawn, who are witches themselves and are part of the coven that I ran in New York for a long time, or were part of the coven I was running for the long time, came out to visit. And a couple of weeks ago, my husband built a fire pit in our backyard. So we lit a fire. We did our souls to celebration a little bit later. And we built a fire in the backyard. And we each stated the intentions of things we really needed to have empowered over the next six months and included you know, things we wanted for jobs or for creative endeavors or for health. And I felt great because for each of these things, we offer different herbs and they were all herbs that I have collected over the past year for my property and almost all of them are invasive herbs, which I've said before invasive herbs are so good in your magick because they will bloom anywhere and they will take over anything. And it's really great to collect them because you should be getting rid of them anyway. And so the agreement that I have with the invasive plants on my property is Listen, you have options. You can either go in the compost heap, and that's the end of you. Or you can become a magickal herb, what would you like to do? And I always get the sense that they choose the magical herb option. So They're like not compost, please. They're like, like, compost sounds kind of lame. It's like it's gonna be lame. And of course, some of them are probably like, yeah, I will find my way into a new thing through the compost. I know there are some plants that are that strong, but that was that was the plan. So everybody knows I use a lot of lemon balm because it grows everywhere. Smells. Yeah, smells good. I love it. So I use some of that as a way to cleanse the space. I used hairy bittercress which is that we that has little tiny white flowers on it tends to grow and grass a lot because the the Norse believe that that could that's I forget what the folk term is in Norse mythology, but the vernacular term The United States is hairy bittercress and that is, the Norse believe that would remove poison from a situation, again, not advocating that as a medicinal herb but I think magically it certainly does. I have seen it draw out powerful toxicity out of situations. So we added that to withdraw toxins from our lives. And also I started using Canadian thistle, which is a plant that is invasive here in Oregon, and it grows everywhere and it's very tough to get rid of. And so, but anytime you use a kind of plant that's real prickly or kind of harsh, that's a great protection herb so something that is good that we're covering today given that we're doing protection magick. And so I pulled you know, a blossom from each of the from three different, excuse me four different thistle shrubs in our backyard and had myself my husband and our two friends each throw it into the fire as a way to protect our endeavors. And we also also charged the crystal that like Hilary said, we started the matte winter Solstice making sure that they captured the first light of Winter Solstice morning. And then I made sure that at summer solstice, we captured the last light of the longest day. So the crystal keeps getting charged for really powerful light and shining light into areas of darkness. So anytime that I feel like something needs more attention, whether it's creatively or an issue of injustice, I can use that crystal in that work to draw attention to that, that thing. So I want to switch gears a little bit here and bring in the segment that is becoming increasingly both loathed and loved by our listeners. In Kanani reviews, a movie the rest of the world has already seen and the big question is, will she shit on your childhood favorite? So, we know a lot of people have requested that Kanani watch Kiki's Delivery Service, and this movie is scheduled to be available on Netflix soon, but for right now we would have to shell out the 15 bucks to buy it and we're a little overextended in our podcast, budget at the moment, so stay tuned. That review is coming in the meantime, believe Kanani was going to review the Dark Crystal, which makes me really nervous. Kanani 10:10Okay, so I was able to rent the dark crystal on amazon prime. So it's about kind of this other world or planets, where at one point, my crystal is damaged and the world is separated into different groups. And there's kind of a good group and a bad group. And then some other groups mixed in between. and the bad group is in power and kind of in charge, and the good group is kind of left off to the side, trying to live in peace while the bad group is in charge, so it's all done in puppets.Hilary 11:01hahahaha I love your reviewsCourtney 11:03hahaha there's a bad group and a good groupKanani 11:07And it's all done in puppets. And I am actually a huge Brian Froud fan. So I have actually always wanted to see this movie. Because this was his first I think this is the first one he worked with Jim Henson on. He was the, kind of main designer, of the puppets for this one. He was the I don't know, remember what his title was, like main costume coordinator or whatever. So he helped to create the characters. I liked I really liked. I don't know, it was a little Lord of the Ringsy for me. But Courtney 11:45I thought you liked Lord of the Rings?Kanani 11:47I hate Frodo. Courtney 11:49Oh my god, Hilary 11:49What is wrong with you?Kanani 11:50I love Sam wise. I love Sam wise. He should have gotten all the credit. Courtney 11:55That's enough. Kanani 11:56Um, but I hated Frodo. So it was it was a little bit But in general, I did actually really like the movie. I don't know that I would watch it again. I'm only because one of the things I notice that I'm sure I'm sure everyone notices when you watch these older movies, there's so much slower than new movies, which is just like constant bombardment in your face just constant action. So when you watch these, you're kind of like, Oh, my God something needs to happe. And because there's just moments of just like they're walking, and they're walking. But in general, overall, I actually really liked it. And I had many people threatened me if I did not like this movie, because I have many friends who love this movie. And I told them I'm like, I'm going to be equally pissed if I don't like this movie, because this was on my list of movies that I wanted to see that I was really hoping I would like. And I actually really did I enjoyedCourtney 12:51So why might witches need to see the Dark Crystal?Kanani 12:57That's an interesting ask. So The ending, the end premise of the movie, which I think is the reason I was such a big fan of it was it was the concept of once they put the piece back in the main crystal, that all the things that had been separated, go back to being one. And you find that the kind of bad tribe of characters and the good tribe of characters were actually one that had been separated into good and evil. And so when things went back, there was no battle between the two, they actually joined together and became whole. And I actually really love that premise. Because I think that that's something important that we do, especially in our culture now. Where there's kind of a purity element to things of you're either good or you're bad. And it's it's that concept of everyone has both everyone has the ability to do good and everyone has the ability to, to muck things up and to be difficult and to make things worse. So I think it's, it's would be a good thing for people to watch. Just because of the concept. It's about the concept of when things are torn, you know, just because something's torn apart doesn't mean that they're not necessarily all a part of the same whole. And it was it was very cute. I mean, I but but I mean I think most all hero movies are the exact same story so it just kind of is what it is but I liked itCourtney 14:42yeah, a lot of people point out that there's there's also a lot of connections to the Kabbalah magic. Yeah, that comes out of the Jewish tradition. So that's that would be a much bigger episode to unpack and probably something be interesting to have somebody come on and talk about that. But yeah, it also Highly recommend the Netflix the prequel peries, which cannot be you might actually like that too. It is more fast paced and a lot more textured. And that one is available on NetflixKanani 15:11It's like the Dark Crystal series that has like eight episodes? Ok yeah I saw thatCourtney 15:16That's really beautiful. Switching gears again and we're also switching some things up is Hilary is going to give us the full moon forecast for July which is normally my job, but I am passing the torch today. So Hilary, what can we it's an auspicious day because for at least here in the United States as the next full moon is on July 4, our independence day in the middle of this pluto return. So what are your plans for the full moon or what should people plan to do?Hilary 15:42Yeah, so I mean, I think full moons are always a really powerful time to do magick. Well, I actually I really liked doing a lot of protective magic during full moons. I also use it to recharge almost all of my magickal tools. And I like to collect, I like to put water out to collect, to like reflect the moon in the water. It's sometimes challenging here in the Pac Northwest. I know we've talked about this with you Courtney and we still haven't had a video of you running around trying to get the moon reflection in in a bowl of water around your backyard i'm gonna need thatCourtney 16:14i'm working on that it just has to the moon has to come up at a certain time when I'm actually like awake. I'm not getting up at two in the morning to do it sorryHilary 16:22And sometimes, you know, sometimes I will put something out all night long. So, what I like to do on a full moon and what I'm planning to do on this full moon actually is so there's a lot of movement in in my life and I think there's a lot of especially as this being an auspicious time or an auspicious day for this full moon is I am actually going to create I'm going to go outside I'm going to put all my tools out like normally do I'm going to put a bowl out that will leave out overnight in case I can't manage to stay up all night or until the moon comes up or you know sometimes here it's just you have a lot of clouds that you have to deal with? Um, but what I'm going to do and something that I think is a is a great suggestion. So I like to go, before the full moon I like to write some intentions down of what I want during this next moon cycle so things that I need to work on stuff that I want to really have energy focused on or charged. And then I'm going in a very, in my craftiness that I love, I know we're all crafty. No One No one's quite as crafty as Kanani, let's be real. Kanani 17:33Nope. Hilary 17:35We all bow to her crafty godessness. But I like to create a little collage like a vision collage of things that I really want to see come to fruition. So what I do is I write down the intention on a piece of paper. I then collage on top of it with images that remind me of what I'm trying to manifest and then I put that out during the ritual in the moonlight with all the other tools. And then when I'm done with the ritual or done with sitting out and kind of basking in that full moon light, I bring it back and I set it on my altar in a place that I can see. So when I'm walking through my house, it's like there. So it's catching my eye every time I walk by. And it's sitting on my altar and a consistent reminder of what I want to focus on. I think especially right now when, you know, we have days that seem like other days and it's kind of hard to stay focused. It's a really good way to kind of ground and pull your focus into something that is a specific intention. And, and then to have it there so that it doesn't get lost in this kind of lack of focus. I feel like folks right now really feel that lack of focus because of everything that's going on. And I think that this is a really great opportunity for this full moon to kind of pull and rein that focus back in and be able to focus on something. So be able to put your intention into that item. So again, I like to light a candle. Sometimes I'll burn herbs that are in relation to whatever my intention is. So if it's bringing in happiness if it's happiness and uplifting, I like to use yarrow. And if it's protective, sometimes I'll use different resins and benzoin and I'll use frankincense, sometimes myrrh or sometimes dragon's blood. And, uh, and then and then I also like the use of Bay leaves as well, if I'm bringing in specifically financial magic or if I'm trying to get again bring in some either protective or really like positive, uplifting energy and Bay is really good for that. So yeah, so if you're going to do this outside, what you would look at doing is like setting up a little area somewhere outside. You're gonna light a candle or some sort of, you don't have a candle or you don't want to lay something even like a flameless candle. You can set herbs out, or you can burn them. And then ahead of time having, you know, written out and created, you know a collage for your intentions with words underneath it, you can set it out there and when you're done, you can bring it back, you can put it somewhere visible on your altar, so that you can continue to see and kind of grow that vision that you created for the intention that you are wanting to to manifest during that full moon.Courtney 20:37I think that the spell is so timely because the full moon in July is a full moon in Capricorn, believe it or not, yes, it's the realm of cancer. But the full moon is always opposite the sun sign that we're in so we're in the time of cancer, which means the full moon could be in Capricorn and Capricorn is all about structure and hard work and making making things happen in In a very methodical way, and so I'm definitely going to be using some of this, s of your thoughts Hilary, what I when I do my full moon work this year. So thank you for that. Kanani 21:11Yeah. Courtney 21:12So we have some listener feedback, really, really sweet message that we wanted to share. And it goes, "I just wanted to let you all know how much I appreciate the podcast and your beautiful souls. This journey is new to me as in me finally taking my first steps on this magical path. This podcast is incredibly informative while being intimate like hanging out with friends you trust. The past couple of months have been erm trying personally. When I feel paralyzed with fear I put on the podcast. Truth be told, I cycle through the episodes as is, and I'm on round number three now, but you all put my mind at ease. In fact, today I had to teach a Tai Chi Class on zoom as part of the instructors course and I nearly canceled. the fear kicked into the fear kicked in due to me feeling ashamed but not practicing, not preparing, giving into my bad habits and letting them wind me down to the point of not putting effort into anything. So I put my earbud in, let my hair down so no one could see it and played a TWL episode while I taught my class. Just hearing your voice has made everything better. Just wanted to share with you all the impact you have, you have on at least one person. And thank you for going weekly with the podcast love to you all. Thank you for being you love and stuff. -H". H, we are delighted that we've been helpful to you, you know, when you're working on any kind of creative project from your home, you never really know how it's going to affect people or if it's even going to reach people. And so I'm really thankful that you shared this with us. And I one of the reasons we wanted to share your letter to everyone is that there is actual certifiable proof that Kanani has ever stepped foot in a Tai Chi Class, even if it was through your earbud. So thank you for that. You can now say you've been in a Tai Chi Class Kanani 22:55And I will. Courtney 22:57You don't even know what Tai Chi is? I'm sure Kanani 22:59I do. I have no This this is probably gonna be the only time I'm ever in a Tai Chi Class is when I was in her ear bud, but I'm very excited to now have been a part of said, said experience. And I, you know, I love I loved what she wrote, I was so touched by it, I thought it was so incredible, I'm so glad that she you know, finds that kind of comfort which because I think that's something that we try and we just try and be open and honest with people and and that feeling of I just am overwhelmed and I just don't want to right now. And and this is hard like that we all get that way. We all get that way. And soCourtney 23:41we just call each other we just call each other and this time now we just call each other and record it and send it out to the worldKanani 23:46 a hundred percent. So it's like I commend her a million times for being able to just kind of step up and do her thing and I'm so glad that you know in some small way we're able to kind of be a part of that with herCourtney 23:59Yeah for sure Thank you and we will always be in your ear but if you need us, Kanani 24:04That sounds treateneing. (menancing voice) Like we're gonna be in the earbud Hilary 24:11hahahaCourtney 24:13Oh my god. So what I learned is that also recently speaking of ears, you know those earwigs as little creepy bugs in the backyard that had the pinchers on the butt Hilary 24:21I hate them.Courtney 24:22Oh my god. So we were they were kind of creepy and freaking us out and my friend Wendy was like, Are those the bugs that crawl in your ear? And then we're like, oh, no. And so we're trying to figure out how to cover our ears as we sleep. And then I went and consulted the oracle of Google and it turns out earwigs do not actually crawl in your ears.Hilary 24:38Yeah, but they're still kind of gross.Courtney 24:40They're still pretty creepy. But I think that it's it's is really more of that the rainbow The more you know, they don't actually crawl in your ear. So for anyone's afraid of earwigs that's not the reason to be afraid of earwigs be afraid of them because they're creepy lookin at not because they do not actually crawl into human heads.Hilary 24:58I mean, that is a little bit, that's comforting at least Courtney 25:01There are so many scary things the world right now I'm glad I can offer some comfortHilary 25:04I apprciate that now I won't have nightmares about bugs crawling in my earsCourtney 25:09Kanani's silent cuz she's like, I never even thought of that as a thing and now I'm gonna worry about itKanani 25:14I'm so, no stuff like that. First of all, I don't know that I'm too unobservant to even look at an insect and try and guess what it is. And I've already accepted the fact that they say that we eat what is it like nine spiders a year while we're sleeping?Courtney 25:31No, that's a lie. Kanani 25:33That's what they say.Courtney 25:33No they don't Kanani 25:34So I'm just like, whatever? Courtney 25:35No, they don't, no. Hilary 25:36They actually do say they do say that. Courtney 25:39I've heard nine spiders in your life. No, I did not hear nine spiders in a year.Kanani 25:43I don't I don't think so.Courtney 25:46Okay, we need to look it up.Kanani 25:47We'll have to look it up. The fact that I hate spiders and so I move on. Just a dirty rotten spider eater. It's fine. I can deal with thatCourtney 26:00Is that your magikal name? Dirty Rotten Spider Eater? So, on that note, we're putting this out there humbly and awkwardly, we know that it is a strange time to ask for money. And there are certainly a lot of causes that are far more worthy than ours. But writing a podcast gets pretty expensive. There's website fees, there's equipment, and sometimes we have to hire interpreters. And there's money involved with doing our transcripts and things and two of your three, That Which Life co hosts are currently unemployed. And so we want to continue to do this work and bring you information about earwigs and spider eaters. But if we're going to, we're going to need some help. And so we have launched a Patreon campaign. If you can please consider joining we are offering lots of goodies to make it worth your while. subscription start at $1 a month and no amount is too small and we appreciate that whatever you can do it If you do become a Patreon subscriber between now and the end of July, we are offering a live ritual and q&a conversation via zoom in August for our Patreon subscribers only. In addition to that, we are bringing you lots of bonus content that's available only to subscribers. we released our first one yesterday, which is Kanani instructing people how to collect ocean water.... sort of,Kanani 27:28I don't know how I feel about me posting videos on Patreon. I almost feel like I need to offer the apology now. But as obnoxious as I am on the podcast? I really am like that in real life. So unfortunately, now you're gonna have to watch it via video, as opposed to just listening to it.Courtney 27:46Hahaha Well, here's the thing is that we were having this meeting about what we could offer and Kennedy says, Well, I'm going to the beach tomorrow, and I could collect ocean water. And Courtney, since you're going to be there, you can feel that and I could instruct people how to do it and Hilary and I both went, Oh, this is not going to go well because we know what Kanani is Like she tries to do magical work, there's distraction, there's discomfort, there's usually a tantrum involved. And then she has to get ice cream. Kanani 28:09That has summed up our last like 25 years of magical experience right there. That is like the timeline right there.Courtney 28:18So she starts out with the best intentions and that it goes downhill quickly. So we have it a video, Kanani be trying to do some witchcraft. It is available to Patreon subscribers only, you can find the links to our Patreon on our website. And in addition, if a monthly subscription isn't feasible, I know for me, it's often not feasible, but you can buy us a Ko-Fi, which are single small donations, and those help us out as well. And so links to both Patreon and Ko-fi are on our website that witch life calm. And if you can't offer cash at all right now, we absolutely understand subscribing, rating and reviewing and telling everyone you know about our show is also a great help. And so, you know we are so thanks thankful to all of you guys this is this this whole doing the podcast has been incredibly healing journey for me with regards because I had a lot of challenges with witchcraft over the last few years and this has really helped me come back home. So we are absolutely thankful to you. And we also have a lot of big plans for our future. And the things we want to do with this podcast and your support helps us ensure that that will happen. So we are delighted to welcome David Shi to That Witch Life podcast, As I was saying, I've been conspiring to get his ass on the show since we first started and I finally got it. So yes, all right, David, David Shi is a spiritual worker and folk magic practitioner of Manchurian descent. Raised in a household that incorporated both Southeast Siberian and North Chinese practices, David has dedicated his spare time to the study of the spiritual traditions of his ancestors and of greater Eurasia. Recognized as a sagaasha/ongodtengertei, a future shaman prior to initiation, among both Mongolian and Korean shamans, David’s practices are deeply rooted in spirit work in which ancestral and land spirits are called to empower all workings. David is the author of the book “North Asian Magic: Spellcraft from Manchuria, Mongolia, and Siberia,” conducted workshops across the country including Catland Books, the Hoodoo Heritage Festival (sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Company), and was a featured guest on the radio shows “Candelo’s Corner” by Candelo Kimbisa and “On Sacred Ground” by Khi Armand. David also teaches the Korean traditional drumming art of Poongmul-nori. David, welcome to the show.David Shi 30:44Thank you, thank you very muchCourtney 30:46By the way, witches, his book North Asian Magic: Spellcraft for Manchuria, Mongolia, and Siberia is again something you absolutely need to have on your bookshelves. It's incredibly informative, a lot of very dense information but David is a writer that is, is so clear that even taking this very complicated work, you read it very, very easily. And it's not a very long book. It's what 88 pages, David Shi 31:1096, I believeCourtney 31:1196 pages, okay, so it's a very short book, but full of just really great information and a lot of magic that the contemporary witchcraft tends to sadly overlook. And so I'm really, really thankful that you've been doing all this important work to bring this into the, you know, the western consciousness. So given that, how did you know David that you were a witch?David Shi 31:33And it's actually really funny. I remember actually asking you what your definition of witchcraft is, because it is very much a Western word and whether these practices can be considered to be witchcraft is always kind of up for debate. But just speaking for myself personally, it's it's actually really interesting I from I think a lot of your other have said something similar but from a very young age. I remember being aware of a lot of different of energies and spiritual entities just being around I think even as a child, I actually had a next door neighbor who was one of my best friends, we were aabout the same age and we would actually, when we're playing together, we would actually pretend to be witches. Um, no, I think, I think actually, she's, I believe she is actually I didn't know this at the time, but she was adopted from Romania and I believe she is of Romani descent of Romani roots, and I think she's actually doing like witchy stuff to wonder, oh, I haven't connected with her very much. I should. But, but I guess that was the first incarnation and I think I didn't really start identifying myself in the western sense of the word until around 12 or 13 it's kind of a lot of different things coming together. I was, um, for one, I was very interested at the time in our theory of Legends because I had to read that book. school. And at the same time, I was also into fantasy gaming. And I think Harry Potter was out around the same time. So it's just all of these things coming together. And then I think throughout that process, I actually discovered that there were people all over the world but at the time in the US who were practicing magic at the time, though, the resources online, this was like early 2000. So not too bad, but still some on the internet just about witchcraft and paganism. I kind of just started looking into those researching into those and a lot of those do can did conceptually make sense. But I've never really felt like I could fully, I could connect but not fully Connect for whatever reason, and this actually lasted for the next 10 to 20 years until I was actually in college and out of college when I started becoming more aware of the practices of my ancestors. And the reason why this came to me so late is because my parents actually grew up in a communist country during a time known as the Cultural Revolution, which is a period of time when China and its territories which include Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, Tibet and stuff, they were actually going through a social revolution where everything that was traditional and everything that was considered to be old was basically over like overthrow, they're trying to remove all traditional culture because they're trying to establish a new culture. So everything that was sold temples, shrines, sacred places were all demolished. Anything Western was demolished. So my parents having grown up under that they basically were, like super atheist, if you could understand a sense of that word. Basically, everything that was considered traditional spirituality was considered to be superstitious was considered to be, in many cases harmful or unproductive superstition. So my parents just simply didn't tell me a lot of these things my grandparents did only when I asked. My parents did not so when, and even when we saw when we were watching like TV dramas, or we're looking at a lot of things that did portray traditional spirituality, even up to Buddhism, my parents would just chalk it on say, Oh, that's just the superstitious stuff that the uneducated people believe almost like it's, it's what the hicks believe. So, so I didn't really come into my own, my own spiritual practice until I have pretty much in my early adult life. When I started having dreams of my ancenstors. I think that was when I was most open. They first came to me, telling me to to learn more about my Manchurian roots, which is something my parents didn't talk about much even though we were of that ethnic minority. Learn more about the Manchurian roots learn more about the shamanism start by learning the other shamanism of our neighbors. So This very much included Mongolia, Siberia and Korea, which I do have some, not as much, but some ancestral roots to. So that so basically, that's sort of my entire process of coming into my current practice today. But having deviated from your original question, I think the first time that actually started calling myself a witch in the modern sense, the modern Western sense, the term was when I was about 12 or 13 years old, in high school, but, and I only continue to call myself a witch only because of my history, having a practice dabbled in research into a western style of witchcraft and having been having been in rituals and done magic with people who are from those traditions. So it's so I do still consider myself a witch and acknowledgement of those traditions and I still do some of those practices from time to time but I will say I'm always careful about whether or not the word witch is appropriate for people who are still from those traditions in North Asia or still from those indigenous traditions, I still think it's a little bit of a contentious issue. Courtney 37:12How so? David Shi 37:14Well, a lot of the times, well, first of all, they don't have the English word Witch so whenever they come across that word in English or two things come to mind. One is that Oh, like witchcraft is Eurocentric, because that's what a lot of the materials is. But the other thing is, well, when the word witch came into their terminology, it was from a negative perspective, right? So they they started using the word witch to refer to spiritual practitioners who only did a harmful work. And then the spiritual mat, the spiritual practitioners that did positive work of helping people they weren't called which. Mm hmm.Courtney 37:56So what to what's her might they be called instead? David Shi:They'll just use their own traditional term, they might actually just they'll just say that the person is a shaman or a bone setter or healer or midwife. They'll just use that term. But when it's when it's someone that's trying to do work to actively create harm or pollution, then they might use the word witch, but again, they only use that word when speaking in the English sense. I don't like to say that I am a shaman because I have not gone through the initiation process. I am identified by shamans as someone who must eventually so if that does pan out, then eventually I will take on that title for for myself, but at the moment, I don't believe that it is appropriate and I think a lot of people misunderstand the word shaman as well, because because shaman has a very specific definition because it is actually a Siberian word. It comes from the Tungus people, the Evenk, and the Manchu, the Manchurians, and it basically means someone who was chosen at birth by spirits to be able to go into deliberate and repeatable trance states for either spirit possession or spirit flights. And these these are specific people chosen at birth so I think a lot of this is going to cause a lot of anger amongst people in the West when I say this but it's impossible to ever study to become a shaman that you just you don't become a shaman you either are born one or you're not. Because it's very specific people that the spirits choose. Courtney 39:37So when you see, you see a lot of Instagram which is where someone refers to themselves as a shaman or they're offering $500 shaman courses? Yeah, that's something probably ought to avoid?David Shi 39:49Yeah, for sure. It’s not something that.. You can take workshops to learn methodologies and practices because there are some that are permissible for non shamans to learn, but If someone is just like offering that for $500 that's a scam. Yeah. And honestly, it can't, it does irk me a little bit every single time because they're taking the word out of context and using it and I don't know what cultural tradition they're coming from. But usually when someone does claim to be a shaman, if I were to give them the benefit of the doubt, I would ask, which culture, which lineage? Um, what's your initiation? What's your basically what what are your spirits? I'll ask those questions. And if they cannot give a good answer, that's not a good sign.Courtney 40:33Okay. Well, I think that's, I think it's really important that you said that because I've seen you write about that on social media platforms and things like that. I think a lot of people just don't realize that and they want to be respectful. They want to do it right. And this is this is really important information for us to have and so I appreciate you, you taking the time to educate us and clarify that. But given that and your practices are so are so beautiful and so complex, personally. Would you be willing to describe with us a bit about what your personal magical practice is like?David Shi 41:05Sure. So right now, I'm actually I listened to your podcast with (Andrea Weston), one thing that she said that I definitely 100% agree with for myself is a lot of the practice is just living a spiritual life for me at the stage that I am now I am aware of my spirits. So, the majority of what I do is I regularly go out and give offerings I give offerings to my to the ancestors that are with me I give offerings to the sky spirits the land spirits and all the directions which then itself almost takes us as long as like a full like pagan ritual. And then and then a lot of the the day to day magical where it well I shouldn't say day to day cuz I'm a hypocrite on that but alot of the day to day work that I should be doing.Courtney 41:57Yaya hypocrites anonymous, we're gonna have a whole hypocritical witchcraft community, turns out it's all witches out there. We're all the hypocritical witches. So yeah. Oh my god.David Shi 42:07Yeah. Yeah, what I really should be doing is basically just inviting blessings every single day on a regular basis, I will do cleansing and I will also boost up my my protection and that's pretty much the majority of what I do. On a once in a blue moon basis, I might do a ceremony or a spell, if you will, that's more specific in nature, such as anything from like employment, or, you know, occasionally a love working but though those are not too common for me or for me, a lot of what I do on a regular basis is offerings, cleansing, blessings and protection.Courtney 42:49So it just kind of is like the, the, you know, answer email, do laundry, wash your dishes equivalent of witchcraft. It's like you do your day to day stuff and then keep living so because that's that i think that's that's important to remember is that that's a lot of what witchcraft is, is supporting your, your regular life through very practical kind of means would that would that be fair to say?David Shi 43:14Yeah, and honestly if if one is able to actually like do those on a regular basis it I mean to say it in a simplistic way it does solve a lot of problems in life and it does help create a lot of opportunities when you build that sort of habits that routine and build a good relationship with spirits. for lack of a better word, your life becomes more charms like you don't need to do any other more ancillary or specific type of magic. I've witnessed people who if they, whether or not they have shamanic ancestry or spirits or not, if they don't maintain their spiritual hygiene, that what I I just find them a lot more turmoil either they're like financially struggling or the opposite. case they're financially doing really well. But their mind is almost always in turmoil. Like they're constantly in an existential crisis, that sort of it all it torments them. So they're kind of out of balance and not and I do say that this is something that everyone can work more on including myself. But being able to maintain spiritual hygiene does open up a lot of doors, new opportunities tend to present themselves better. And I will say I'm blessed because I do have my, well i'm blessed and cursed because I'd have my spirits because for me, or for people who have shamanic ancestry and spirits and are ignoring what their spirits are demanding of them, then those people their life can fall out of place even more than for for non shamans. So but, but in the cases where you do actually, not only just acknowledge them, but honor them and then promise to work with them, then it basically Your life does become so much race basically, if you have shamanic spirits and ancestry, then the two outcomes are even more extreme. Courtney 45:08So I want to come back to this question about spiritual hygiene in a second but I first want to really narrow in on the idea of of protection magic, as you mentioned, you're boosting at protection and something we talked about the start of the show is that's one of the things that people are most interested in in witchcraft is like how to use witchcraft for protection. So let's uh, what do you think of when you you hear the term protection magic I get nervous when I hear of I remember hearing some young witches that they did a protection spell for themselves and then they walked through Central Park alone at two o'clock in the morning because they had their protection on that everything should be fine. And I was like, that's not okHilary 45:48Yeah that's not how it works.Courtney 45:51So David, how would you define what protection magic is?David Shi 45:55So in the cosmology is that I work with it comes down to what are you protecting? Um, within the realm of North Asian magic, you do have, basically the two competing systems of spirituality, Buddhism and shamanism. They have their own folk magic with the shamanic magic there is or folk magic, they do have nowadays they do have white magic versus black magic, but their definitions are fairly different from what they're how they're defined in the West. I think in the West white magic, black magic just simply means like, whether it's harmful or not harmful,Courtney 46:34right? Which is terminology I hope people stop using because it's inherently racist to the white in the black magic, just say bainful or blessing magic. There you go.David Shi 46:45They do use the same symbology in North Asia, which is probably not, well, they don't they don't have a lot of the same racial history, but this is what they they use and this is what they define. They define white magic as basically just your everyday magic and that's it and they define black magic as magic in which you are working with a presence in which you might be exposed to pollution. So that so that doesn't just mean harmful work that can mean cleansing work because you're cleansing away a pollution or, or harmful spirits or it can some some cases need protection if it's protection against a specific type of entity. And the reason why they have that terminology of white and black, it comes down to their history of classifying spirits as white or black white spirits being completely benevolent and, and black spirits are not harmful spirits, but they are spirits who don't have an issue with doing anything. They can do both good stuff and bad stuff. And they're also extremely powerful because they're from the realm known as the black sky. But anyways, as I was saying, with the whole white magic versus black magic, cleansing, which can be considered black magic because you're putting yourself at risk like exposure to pollution, pollution, that's the word that they use. It can also be known as like infection or contamination, basically, just a lot of residual energies in the worlds that can cause a lot of either harm or disruption in people's life. And it can result from death, death energy, or it can come from anything from from like trauma, thievery, even even if you do something or if you pollute the land and you piss off the land spirits then they might actually cast some energy or pollution towards you and sometimes even curses. So the way that you would so so when they, the protection that they work with, is a lot of times just protecting them on the day by day basis, from any pollution that they might come across in everyday life because life is messy, even if you just go to work or you go to school, and someone like gossips about you or gossips to you about someone else, that technically does create a pollution, it creates an energetic disruption. And even if it's positive gossip, it can still, you know, do some, you know, messy things. So, so protection is a lot about just being able to protect, protect yourself against that. They'll still cleanse themselves regularly, just to you know, tie the loose ends, but the protection is to avoid this running into any of this type of pollution if you're just outside taking a walk. I'm just going back to the case that you mentioned in which that person is thinking about, or that person basically did a protection spell and then did and then went for a walk somewhere at 2am. That's, I don't know how else to say it, it's taking a big risk doing something like that. If you're doing just a spell for protection, um, I really urge to just look at the mechanics of that spell. How long is that protection supposed to last? To what extent does that protection work because protection can be anything from like, let's just say a bulletproof vest to, to like a little ring on your finger. They all have different levels of strength, they have different coverage. And I'll be honest, within the North Asian magic framework, protections are rarely a spell or a ritual they're most more often than not, they are an object such as an amulet that has been empowered. And really there's two types, you can either empower with energy you can activate or put Protection energy into it and it's supposed to last a certain length of time. Or it can or you can activate in a sense of you're making it a spirit house, you put you, you awaken it, you awaken into the spirit inside it or another spirit comes inside it. And then that type of protection is considered the most powerful because it's self sustaining whenever you're just doing a spell or transferring energy into an object. It's not meant to last forever. One of the most famous guys I know in Japanese Shinto shrines and actually in Buddhist temples too now they do sell protection charms known as omamori. They're only meant to last you a year and after a year, you're supposed to return them so that they can be disposed of. So I think with protection, it is necessary to be specific on what on what type of protection you're really thinking of putting in there. And, and how how much it's supposed to cover how long it lasts. Unless you're doing like a new protection spell, like every single, like several times a day, every day. That doesn't, that also doesn't give you the safety of just throwing caution to the winds in terms of your day to day actions.Hilary 52:16Yeah, I was, I was gonna say that I think like, you know, doing protection magic or creating a protection spell doesn't mean that you can put yourself in inherently dangerous situations and that you're in, like, you're impermeable to that,. That you know, I think that um, I think that it's important to remember that you know, you can't be like I mean, it's I'm not going to do a protection spell and be like, well, I'm gonna stand in the middle of the freeway an no one's and hit me. You know, that's really not the intention to protection magic. It doesn't make you you know, protected from any danger on the in the world. You know, you still have to use, and arguably when I Look at that. your intention, you're you're, you're negating your intention there, you're saying, okay, I want to create protection for myself, but I'm gonna put myself in danger.Courtney 53:11It's kind of like I feel like the a metaphor might be you get into a car you put on your seatbelt and you know the car has airbags and has new tires, and then you go drive 110 miles an hour while you're drunk. And someone says, Wow, that's dangerous to yourself and others. You go, it's okay. I have a seatbelt on. Well, yes, your seatbelt should be on and that will offer you a level of protection under General circumstances, but then you have just increased the risk to a place where the seat belt has no effect on that whatsoever.Hilary 53:41Well, also what you're saying is like, part of it for me, it's like when I'm doing protection, magic, I'm also like living that value of wanting to be protected. If you put yourself in a, in a clearly very dangerous situation. You're not living that value. You're not saying like I've, you know, I want to be protected. You're saying, I'm testing this protection strength, you going to protect me or no?. And like that's, you know that that's, that's also like not following through with what you're asking for, you know, it's thinking it's expecting that you know, this spell you cast to be something that you then have no personal accountability54:22for. And spirits are fickle if they if they see you doing that they might get get annoyed and just undo the protection that they asked they asked for, you know, it's happened all the time.Courtney 54:34So I want to come back to this question about what, what we're using protection for and I really appreciate what David said about how life is messy and I know that I've had a lot of people come to me for tarot readings believing they've been cursed. Once in a while. It's true that somebody out there was angry with them stuck a pin in their pocket and they're having some problems that is that can happen. But it's kind of the equivalent of, you know, when I was living in New York City, you ride the subway, that's when you're going to get sick. Cuz you're going to be writing next to somebody who's going to get sick. And so you end up with a cold. And so you end up with a cold. Did somebody poison you? Did somebody deliberately sneeze on you? Or were you just happened to bump up against somebody who had the virus and you ended up getting sick? I know virus is such an ugly word right now, I'm sorry. But it's the reality is that most of the time when we're dealing with what feels like a curse, it's because perhaps we were, you know, got energetically imbalanced. We were hanging out with people who were kind of like psychic pig pens, and then a lot of those people who are just the bad, the bad funk is rolling off of them all the time and other people pick it up, and then you start to so, so I sometimes wonder if protection magic is not like, protect me from the people who are going to curse me although sometimes that's helpful but it's more about like protecting yourself from other people's funk, you know,David Shi 55:51yeah, others people's funk, t's not even just from other people. Sometimes they linger on. I mean, what a lot of the traditional Spiritual workers from the North Asian areas they see like spiritual impurity spiritual imbalances and just like the pollution the same way as they look at viruses actually like they like they give it out and it might linger in an area. One of my shaman friends she actually was shocked when she found out that people in the West like to hang out in graveyards, because in her mind, she was like, why would you ever do that? There's death energy everywhere, and people who go to graveyards to mourn, they must cleanse themselves when they leave. And I know the the western or in some traditions like the ATR’s where they do have graveyard work. They I know in those traditions, they also do emphasize putting on protection, just overall strong general protection before going in and then when they come out, they almost always cleanse themselves and I think with them because they do that magic, they do have that precautions, but in lots of North Asians spiritualities you, well, for one, a lot of them don't have like set areas for graveyards traditionally, they do now but in the past they didn't. So they didn't have this tradition of working with graveyard magic. But but it is one of those like high risk areas and and whenever you you put yourself in danger or in a high risk situation, a lot of the times you are not only just endangering yourself, you're also endangering whichever spirits are with you at the time and they will not appreciate that. In the mindset of a lot these traditional cultures, especially in North Asia, like more than half of work for protection is just avoid putting yourself into dangerous situations. If it's part of your job, then obviously it cannot be helped. But if it's not something that, in their minds, if it's not something that you need to do, don't do it.Courtney 57:43Yeah.David Shi 57:45So that's why in those structures, they actually have a lot of listed taboos like a lot of listed taboos, which they advise people to follow to not do this and not do that. And that really does carry a lot does carry you alot of the way there and then to putting up actual spiritual protection on yourself will then you know fully help cover anything else that's left.Courtney 58:09Yeah. So you also want to I want to come back to the question about spiritual hygiene. Can you explain a little bit more about what what qualifies as spiritual hygiene and how it's helpful in protection magic?David Shi 58:21Sure. All in terms of just hygiene a lot in the north Asian tradition when they're asking, when people are talking about protection, really, it comes down to what you're protecting, and almost all the time the answer is a basically your vital energy, your vital energy is basically the energy of your soul. They have vital energy and then they have no personal power energy known as windhorse. But really, we're providing protection to your vital energy, your vital energy actually gives you the ability to do a lot of things both spiritually and physically and your personal power will, ctually a personal power does that your vital energy is basically the energy of your soul and to what they're tied together so intimately that if one goes down, the other goes down and then your life falls apart. So really with vital energy, and what it means for your spiritual health is that you constantly need to both to like build it as well as protect it. And then if pollution comes in, and pollution comes, it actually attacks your vital energy and so you have to remove that pollution in order to build your vital energy back up, if, if you don't maintain proper spiritual hygiene, a lot of these solutions will stick to your body you will basically you basically become a one of those sick people who then can not only not only infect others, but also a lot of things in your life will starts will start falling apart. A lot of people who have, who are paranoid or who become paranoid a lot of people who basically have troubles with money, some people who have heavy death energy they just to a lot of shamans, they just reek of a rotten smell because it's literally attacking their life energy. Um, it's having protection and then cleansing that protection is extremely important in order just feel being able to have that proper spiritual hygiene that will ultimately help support the other parts of your life. There's we've actually seen a lot of cases where there have been a positive fiscal effects from maintaining good spiritual hygiene, so you're less likely to get sick and if you do get sick, you recover it a little more easily and more quickly, and then you'll have more energy throughout the day. You'll have better focus and concentration as basically just being able to live through life easier, and then having a lot of competencies that are that just come a little bit more naturally. So you don't start slow. Like if you're sluggish all day, that could be a sign that you need to both improve your cleansing and then put out more protection.Courtney 61:25So I wanted to ask about what would be a good practice for, say the average Western witch to, to to embrace a good spiritual hygiene, would it? Would it be a salt bath? Would it be, you know, would be some kind of affirmation or what would be a good practice to build protection for the average witch?David Shi 61:46Okay, um, so, I'm going to answer that in two parts because there is going to be a more protection aspect and then a more cleansing aspect to it. Um with with the whole protection aspect one of the most powerful ways that I believe, in terms of protecting yourself day to day isn't necessarily through a ritual spell but but actually creating and an item, an amulet that you can then carry with you and it'll protect you when you carry it. a lot of people in the West know about putting energy into objects. I think that's pretty common. But there's not a lot of conversation about truly activating an object and bringing it to life. So that it so that it becomes a living thing with a spirit that protects you, and that I consider to be a lot more powerful because it is self sustaining, and it's also more versatile. It's almost like kind of kind of a crude analogy having a bodyguard versus having a shield. So in that sense, what the objects that they use most commonly are metal objects. So a lot of they use actually a lot of mirrors. So mirrors made of copper, bronze, or even brass will work too. Sometimes they'll use like iron, iron bells, iron jingle cones, Tiger bells are very much often used. But basically in order to activate these objects you need to use a cleansing herb and cleanse over it and then pray over it give offering to it over and you this process needs to be repeated and with invocation to your spirits or your Gods over and over and over again and at some point, if it does work, you'll know that it has worked when that object starts emitting a heat. One of my one of my mirrors this one of my mirrors is actually extremely powerful. It was forged traditionally by shamans from North Mongolia from a lineage that was that's remained unbroken since the time of Genghis Khan, they actually provide me a mirror and this mirror, I don't know how to describe it, it's it almost defies physics. When you hold it up to your face, it feels hot, like it feels like it's like, it's like a heater, it's emitting heat, but then when you touch it, it's cold. So it's basically that's how you would know or some aspect of that is when it starts to feel, feel like it's emmiting a heat, that's when you know that it has become alive. And that objects and because you've done it, it becomes protection that's customized for you, so that it will then work for you. And then and then that type of objects, it doesn't need to be recharged because there is because there's already a Spirit living there, it's already alive, but you do need to regularly be able to cleanse it and you know, and feed it and often give offerings to it. What they most often do is that they actually do use a smudge of a cleansing herb so like they'll take a cleansing herb and they'll burn it In North Asia, they most commonly use Juniper but they do use other herbs as well. But most commonly they use JuniperCourtney 65:08I love JuniperDavid Shi 65:11The other part I really want to talk about is the cleansing part I started with with the the, the cleansing with a smoke. a lot of these traditionals that traditional cultures they cleanse with alcohol as well. They traditionally use either vodka or Chinese firewater basically, a clear, a clear alcohol some so not alcohol with a color to it, but a clear one. And, and oftentimes, and I'll give another bit of folk magic that is okay to share but they actually create something that is called a spirit water or cleansing water. If it's not necessarily spirit of water, basically, it's when they take some cleansing herbs. It can be a Juniper or a combination of other herbs, and then you actually put it in water and you bring it to a boil. And as soon as it boils, you can then invoke your spirits and your deities to to bless it to give it cleansing properties. And then that actually becomes a water that spiritual water they can work with to cleanse not only yourself, but your but your protection. So if your, mirrors your bells, your, your jingle cones, and a lot of the times when they actually do prepare like a bath, like you mentioned a salt bath, they actually, um, they combine it with a they combine that water with milk and vodka together. Sometimes they add salt, they don't add salt all the time. And they use that as a spiritual bath as well. Courtney 66:39That sounds so delicious. I'm like I bet it robbed the store and give me some cheap vodka later not for drinking for bathing.Hilary 66:46For bathingDavid Shi 66:47Yeah, and that type of protection is actually no protection and cleansing is known to be able to work with most forms of spiritual evolution. So it's actually considered extremely simple but powerful spell that actually in, in Mongolia, even the non shamans know and use this all the time. It's an it solves most problems, only the problems that they cannot solve, then they'll go to a Shama because then you'll need some heavy duty, like machine gun level stuff to get in there.Courtney 67:15I feel like this is so pertinent right now because we're all walking around in death energy whether we realize it or not. And we've talked about the days rolling into each other we've we've, you know, we had a listener feedback saying it's just how energetically difficult it's been for her to focus and all this stuff. And so I feel like hey, witches, this is some really valuable tools that we all should be working to incorporate in in a way that's appropriate for our lifestyles, our own backgrounds, our own practices, whatever is feasible for you to, you know, to cleanse and to shore up. And so David, I think this is going to be really, really helpful to a lot of people. So thank you. I want to switch gears and we've got we do have a listener question that would be really good to get David's perspective on there. And it reads "hello, I have been enjoying your podcast for a little while now I've been bingeing since I'm fairly new, and I've recently been seeing some things lately and I'm curious if you have any assistance about it. Just last night about a metal key hanger that will be used to hold something above my door. I saw seven birds that came close or passed my car just this morning. I've been seeing a yellow butterfly quite often. Are these all signs from someone? Do you think? I tried to do some research and one of the Greek goddesses that kept coming up in my searches was Hekate is it normal for one to show up to be Greek not Celtic, or others?" Well, a couple thoughts I have here. So seeing the yellow butterfly may be a sign it also may be just what's going on with the season. I there's, when we're getting animal spirits. I take note to see are the animals acting in a way that's unusual or you coming in really close contact with them. I know that for me, we do have coyote in my area we also have, we also have cougar. And so just seeing a coyote run through the park to me would not be a sign. But once the thing that did happen yesterday that made me pause as a coyote ran right in front of my car and then ran alongside it for a while before running off into the woods. And that was unusual I don't it was the middle of the day usually see coyotes at night. So to me that's asking that spirit is maybe me trying to tell me something through through coyote and so what I want to do is find out more about, we know that they are often associated with trickster gods and stuff like that, but I'm also gonna find out, you know what are unique about the coyotes in Oregon, because that whatever is unique about them may be something for me to pay attention to in me. With regards to you know, Hekate coming up I thought it's not really associated with with birds or butterflies, you know, she's more of the cathonic deities are considered the underworld snakes, black dogs so I would suspect that perhaps Hekate is coming up because she's very popular right now. And so doing the Google search you're going to see a lot of references to her as for one to be Greek versus Celtic, not not everything has to be Celtic and Celtic is also a very broad term. So if if something is if you're finding you're having more experiences from one Pantheon that's not Celtic, that's just great those gods are calling to you. It could be that Hekate is calling to you. And it could be that there's a there's other sorts of messages coming to you through these other animals. What I would ask is, what are the animals coming to you? What is the the the folklore surrounding these specific animals that may not be a god or goddess and also look to see scientifically what is unique about these animals? I know for me, the dragon fly came up a lot. That's considered what I call that one of my critters And what's unique about the dragon fly is that it hasn't evolved much since the dinosaur age. And it's the one of the best killers in the animal kingdom. So it's really good at what it does. And it got it right the first time. So for me, when I see a dragon fly, it's not about a god or goddess so much, it's personally a sign to me that I'm doing something right. But to someone else who has a different relationship with the dragon fly, it has different history with them, it's gonna be something else altogether. But it'd be really good to get David's perspective on the animal signs and what this might mean for this, this person who's new and in the craft,David Shi 71:35I 100% agree with what you said about whether or not the animal is actually doing something that's unusual. I think one of my favorite comic memes I've ever seen was just two squirrels looking at each other one of them says, I just saw a human, what is the significance of seeing a human? hahah and really, I would say that with these animals, it's very important to really take notes of what type of animal it is. So if it's so if it's birds, for example, what what kind of bird is it? What color was it? What was it doing was it just what are its behaviors, and then in terms of which gods or spirits that are from, and it will really differ on a case by case basis, especially when, between different people. If you think it is from one of your gods or spirits and you wanted to figure out who or where it's from, then I would suggest two things. One, look at what traditions you're at your ancestors have practiced, which spirits of which gods have they worked with. Because if, if though, if that is a spirit, or God that has a relationship with your family with your bloodline, then they're going to be the ones that come through most often. And that even includes with any work that you've been doing for You know, 5, 10, 15, 20 years, which ones you've worked with, those will be the ones that will respond fair, it's not common for random gods and spirits to show up just randomly in your life unless there is there's reason for them to. so in which case they've come across to you before whether it's you've attended a, a group ceremony where that God or spirit was invoked, and that was your first time meeting them, but it doesn't happen too often. And then, and then second of all, and I think this kind of is in line with what Courtney has said, but what is um, what's the spiritual wildlife in your area look like? If it's just a case where it is a just a random animal just passing by just minding its own business, it might not mean anything. But if those if there's there are multiple animals that are behaving in a way that is not typical, and their attention is on you. That might be an interaction with one of the land spirits that are there. So reading science is always a little bit complicated, especially reading science in nature, because it doesn't require any special tools, but it is difficult to interpret. And it does. It does require a very specialized and customized knowledge and very high attention to detail. So not everything passing you by might mean something, but if they do, if they are, if they do have your attention, or they're trying to get your attention, or they're doing something that's unusual, or they just happen to be even, they're just happening staring right at you and doing something unusual than then yes, it could mean something, but it's not. I would always caution against necessarily what you find that on Google versus what you can figure out with respect to your own ancestral or land practices. Because it's I want to caution against the mindset of this means this and that means that and butterfly by means this and a wolf means that because it's not going to be the same every single time is not going to be the same for every single person.Courtney 75:13And also ask yourself what's going on in your life now because that that animal may pop up in your journey later on. So for right now, if you're going through a really challenging time, and you're seeing a lot of crows, that may be a sign that you know 10 years from now suddenly things are great and you see a bunch of crows might be a sign of Okay, last time I saw a bunch of crows I was going through, you know, whatever whatever challenges were, might be assigned for me to shore up my protection I maybe about to go through these challenges again, it's a constant learning process. Yeah, I would think right now because you're so new in this is an information gathering time. And like David said, find out what's what in your ancestry is connected to these animals. And what what lands spirits, what native lore in your area might also be connected to these animals and also pay attention to what's going on in your own life and just consider it Okay, as part of the learning and study.David Shi 76:09You know, one thing I'll quickly mention is that when people are trying to figure out what spirits that are with them, or what spirits are working with them, it's it's really those two things I just mentioned. Your bloodline is very important terms of who spirits work with, because spirits, the one thing that they say in North Asia is that spirits have extremely strong sense of smell, and they can smell blood very well. So they can smell bloodlines. So if they're working, if they have an extremely strong relationship with your ancestors, you're going to bet that they're they're going to be there for you too. So that's one aspect. The other aspect is the land that you're born on, because I don't want to downplay the land, the importance of lascars by any means, if you're born on a certain land, you were born in the kingdom of that land spirits and technically, this goes along with with even a Native American prophesy the land doesn't belong to us, we belong to the land, and therefore we belong technically we belong to the land spirits. So developing a strong relationship with the land spirits will inform a lot of your practice. This is why for my personal practice, I use both my ancestral practices, as well as practices of the land that I was born on, because they are equally important. They're equally powerful for you, and they both will be strong enhancers for your magic. But they actually even say that , I'm sorry, I'm rambling, but they're saying that even if you connect to your ancestors, when your ancestors come to you, they're going to encounter the land spirits before they encounter you. So having a strong connection with your land spirits actually helps open up connections to your ancestors.Courtney 77:44Oh, that's beautiful. Well, David, how can people find you or keep in touch with you?David Shi 77:50Um, so I mostly just use my personal Facebook that's primarily what I use. If if people are interested in My book, my book does appear in some metaphysical shops. It's obviously on Amazon. And so if they want more information on just folk practices, they can look in there. I will say though, I wrote that in 2016. And I have learned so much more information between 2016 and now. So,Courtney 78:17So new book, new book soon? new book, next book?David Shi 78:21Well, we'll see.Courtney 78:22hahahaha All right, well, thank you, David, so much for being with us. And thank all of you so much for listening again, if you want to support the show, the best way is to subscribe rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. You can get handmade that which live merchandise on our Etsy store for the next couple of days. 10% of our sales go to protect the sacred which is supporting the Navajo nation in the face of COVID. Again, we are on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram following keep in touch. support us on Patreon or send us a Ko-fi and for show notes, audio transcript or to ask a question. To answer in a future episode, go to . Until then, keep voting that shit and we will talk to you all next week. (Exit Music) 79:07Join us on the first and third Monday of the month for Magickal tips and stories about living as a witch in today's world. Find us at for archived episodes or to ask your burning questions for us to answer in a future podcast. So mote it be.Hilary 79:19OKAY...google says that it was, the myth was that you eat eight spiders a year but itCourtney 79:27Eight spiders!Hilary 79:28 Eight spiders a year during your sleep, but it just isn't true. Thank fucking godCourtney 79:35YAY People just don't eat it. I've been bitten by my hand by spiders when I've slept, you know, but we do not but except for Kanani who was apparently a dirty rotten spider eater.Kanani 79:45What'd I do? Courtney 79:47So we offered two things to keep people comforted in this time of fear is that earwigs do not crawl in your ear and you are not eating eight to nine spiders a year in your sleep. Yay. All right. We're doing good work. ................
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