IEEE 802
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|Project |IEEE 802 Executive Committee Study Group on TV White Spaces |
| |< > |
|Title |Minutes of ECSG Teleconference dated YYYY-MM-DD |
|Date Submitted | 2008-12-02 |
|Source(s) |Name of preparer Nanci Vogtli |Voice: telephone (408) 354-8070 |
| |Affiliation Concrete Logic |mailto:e-mail nancivogtli@concrete- |
|Abstract |IEEE 802 ECSG on White Space minutes from teleconference on 2008-12-02 |
|Purpose |To record the minutes of the IEEE 802 ECSG on White Space (IEEE 802.WS) for the teleconference dated 2008-12-02. |
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| |in whole or in part the resulting IEEE Standards publication. The contributor also acknowledges and accepts that this contribution may|
| |be made public by IEEE 802. |
|Patent Policy and |The contributor is familiar with the IEEE-SA Patent Policy and Procedures: |
|Procedures | and . |
| |Further information is located at and . |
Minutes of the IEEE 802.WS Teleconference dated 2008-12-02
IEEE 802 Executive Committee Study Group on White Space
If you see errors or omissions in these minutes please contact the IEEE 802.WS Chair, Matthew Sherman at matthew.sherman@.
All meeting documents should be posted to
|Attendees |
|Name |Affiliation |
|Matthew Sherman |BAE Systems |
|Harry Bims |Apple, Inc. |
|Matthew Landry |Silicon Laboratories |
|Edgar Reihl |Shure Incorporated |
|Johnny Dixon |BT Innovate, British Telecommunications plc |
|Tony Braskich |Motorola |
|Gerald Chouinard |Communications Research Centre, Canada |
|Art Astrin |Astrin Radio |
|Ed Casas |Intel |
|Peter Ecclesine |Cisco Systems |
|Joanna Guenin |Motorola |
|Prabodh Varshney |Nokia |
|Bruce Franca |MSTV |
|Christopher Hansen |Broadcom |
|Srikathyayani Srikanteswara |Intel Corporation |
|Scott Carichner |Powerwave Technologies, Inc. |
|Sunil Vadgama |Fujitsu |
|Malik Audeh |Tropos Networks |
|John Chapin |MIT and SDR Forum |
|Rick Noens |Motorola |
|Charles Cooper |?? |
|Paul Nikolich |YAS, Samsung and HP |
|Stuart J. Kerry |NXP Semiconductors |
|Lars Falk |TeliaSonera |
|Soo-Young Chang |CSUS |
|Greg Phillips |?? |
|Winston Caldwell |FOX |
|Taisuke Matsumoto |Panasonic |
|Steve Shellhammer |Qualcomm |
|Steve Jones |FCC |
|Kursat Kimyacioglu |Philips Rresearch - North America |
|Wen Gao |Thomson, Inc. |
|Richard Paine |Self or Boeing? |
|Darcy Poulin |SiGe Semiconductor. |
|Wendong Hu |STMicroelectronics Inc. |
|Chiu Ngo |Samsung Electronics |
|Scott Blue |Sensible Radio |
|Alex Reznik |InterDigital |
|Steven Goldberg |InterDigital |
|Peter Loc |IWT Inc. |
|Apurva Mody |BAE Systems |
|VK Jones |AIRGO NETWORKS |
|Feinberg, Paul |Sony |
|Jim Allen |Arkados |
|Fadel Digham, PhD |National Telecom Regulatory Authority Egypt |
|Md Habibul Islam, |Institute for Infocomm Research, Singapore |
|Steve Crowley |Self |
|Apurva N. Mody Ph. D. |BAE Systems |
|James Neel |Cognitive Radio Technologies, LLC. |
|Tom Kolze |Broadcom |
|Ganesh Venkatesan |Intel |
|Vijay Auluck | Intel Corporation |
|Jim Raab |oaktreewireless |
|Dan Lubar |RelayServices |
|Wen Tong |Nortel Networks |
|Jack Unger |Ask-, Inc. |
|Cor van de Water |Proxim Wireless Corporation |
|Victor Hou |Broadcom Corporation |
|J KIM, BYOUNG-JO J |AT&T |
|Christine Di Lapi |Motorola |
|Marc Emmelmann |Technische Universitaet Berlin |
|Pat Carson |TDK |
|Michael Williams |Nokia |
|Liwen Chu |?? |
|Jose Puthenkulam |?? |
|James Allen |?? |
|Moonwon Lee |ETRI |
|Myungsun Song |ETRI |
|Vasanth Gaddam |Philips Research North America |
|Ivan Reede |Amerisys |
|Yiyan Wu |?? |
|Jianfeng Wang Ph.D | Philips Research North America |
|John Barr |Motorola |
|Seiji Yoshida |?? |
|Ali Louzir |Thomson |
|TK Tan |GCT Semiconductor |
|Kiran Challapali |?? |
|Monisha Ghosh |Philips |
|Nancy Bravin |self |
|Sudhir Kumar Baghel |Samsung India Software Operations |
|Greg Philips |AirTegrity Wireless, Inc. |
|Roger Marks |Nextwave |
|Jerry Kalke |CBS Corp |
|Tom Gurley |IEEE Broadcast Technology Society |
|Seiji Yoshida |NTT MCL |
|Dave Cavalcanti |Philips |
|Nanci Vogtli |Concrete Logic |
|Actions |
|Number |Action |Assignee |Due Date |
|1 |Distribute SENDORA document |Sudhir Kumar Baghel |Completed |
|2 |Distribute the exparte filing from Philips |Kursat Kimyacioglu |Completed |
|3 |802.22 reference model and additional input regarding an article in |Gerald Chouinrd |Reference model |
| |Communication magazine. | |sent |
|4 |Spearhead use case initiative |Nanci Vogtli | |
|5 |Liaison between SCC 41 and the Whitespace ECSG |Joanna Guenin/Dan Lubar | |
|6 |Provide a pointer to key docs and forward contribution numbers for 802.22 for |Gerald Chouinrd | |
| |security work. | | |
|7 |Send an email to notify participants of the upcoming vote |Matthew Sherman |9 Dec 2008 |
Agenda (updated for final version)
|r00 | |DRAFT AGENDA - IEEE 802.WS Teleconference | | | |
| | |Tuesday, December 2, 2008 – 1:00PM- 2:30 PM EST | | | |
|Item |Item |Agenda Item |Presenter |Min |Time |
|# |Type | | | | |
| |Category (* = consent agenda) | | | |
|1.00 | |MEETING CALLED TO ORDER |Sherman |1 |01:00 PM |
|2.00 | |ATTENDENCE |Sherman |5 |01:01 PM |
|3.00 |MI |APPROVE OR MODIFY AGENDA |Sherman |5 |01:06 PM |
|4.00 |II |REVIEW IEEE PATENT POLICY |Sherman |5 |01:11 PM |
|4.01 |II |Review purpose of ECSG and Teleconference |Sherman |5 |01:16 PM |
|4.00 |II |Review format and procedures for teleconferences |Sherman |5 |01:21 PM |
|5.00 |DT |Discuss How best to address tasks assigned to the ECSG |Sherman |10 |01:26 PM |
|5.01 |DT | Assess the impact of the FCC White Space R&O on IEEE 802 activities |Sherman |10 |01:36 PM |
|5.02 |DT | Identify Use Cases of TV White Space Spectrum |Sherman |10 |01:46 PM |
|5.03 |DT | Identify what functions may be common across 802 technologies |Sherman |10 |01:56 PM |
|5.04 |DT | Begin technical discussion on how to enable coexistence between various |Sherman |10 |02:06 PM |
| | |802 technologies in the shared TV white space spectrum | | | |
|5.05 |DT | Prepare a Tutorial for March Plenary |Sherman |10 |02:16 PM |
|5.06 |DT | Make recommendations to 802 EC by March 2009 on next steps |Sherman |10 |02:26 PM |
|6.00 | |ADJOURN TELECONFERENCE |Sherman | |02:30 PM |
MINUTES
|1.00 | |MEETING CALLED TO ORDER |Sherman |1 |01:00 PM |
The meeting was called to order by the 802.WS Chair Matthew Sherman at 1:00 pm. He welcomed the attendees to the meeting.
|2.00 | |ATTENDENCE |Sherman |5 |01:01 PM |
The Chair requested all participants without access to webex to send their name and affiliation info to the reflector noting that they were on the teleconference. He also asked those on webex to add their names to the chat section.
|3.00 |MI |APPROVE OR MODIFY AGENDA |Sherman |5 |01:08PM |
There were initially no comments on the agenda and no objections to approving the agenda. However, upon further review, there was a request to change the sequence of discussion point (See below).
|4.00 |II |REVIEW IEEE PATENT POLICY |Sherman |5 |01:09PM |
The Chair asked if anyone had not reviewed the patent policy for this call. No one responded that they had not reviewed it.
|4.01 |II |Review purpose of ECSG and Teleconference |Sherman |5 |01:10 PM |
The Chair presented slides from the presentation on EC Study Group on TV White Space () to explain the formation of the ECSG. This ECSG will not develop a PAR and 5 Criteria. Rather it will make recommendations to the EC regarding future activities.
Apologies to those in parts of the world where the timing of the call is inconvenient.
Action Item: The Chair will review the teleconference schedule to see if it could be put on a rotating basis.
|4.02 |II |Review format and procedures for teleconferences |Sherman |5 |01:12 PM |
The size of the conference call makes it important to use webex. The Chair requested that participants raise their hands to get the floor. Went through an example to demonstrate this feature. There were no further questions about webex.
|5.00 |DT |Discuss How best to address tasks assigned to the ECSG |Sherman |10 |01:16 PM |
The group reviewed the six sub items on the agenda, the Chair suggested spending ten minutes addressing each of them. Peter Ecclesine requested a change in sequence, to instead begin with 502, 503, 501, then 504, 505, 506. The Chair asked if anyone objected to this change in the agenda. There was no objection.
|5.02 |DT | Identify Use Cases of TV White Space Spectrum |Sherman |10 |01:20 PM |
The Chair requested contributions to outline use cases and suggested that the activities of industry associations might be leveraged.
Places where use case information could be found include:
NAF – New America Foundation
WIA – wireless innovation alliance
Smart Grid – for metering
802.11 – reference document # 1439rl
802.15.6c – Body Area Networks, channel models indicate that frequency is very good for this set of apps, document # 15-08-0407
SENDORA project – 5 use cases have been defined
Action Item: Sudhir Kumar Baghel will distribute SENDORA document
The White Space Coalition - Google, HP, etc had define fixed and portable as the basic headings. Use cases that the White Space Coalition had referenced included home networking, i.e video and long range WiFi. The latter refers to apps similar to WiFi but with the extended range enabled by the frequency spectrum.
FCC 04-186 contains the preceding of relevant lobbying efforts. There are approximately 39K documents. Therefore it is not feasible to extract the use cases that may be contained within them.
Action Item: Kursat Kimyacioglu will distribute the exparte filing from Philips.
For fixed applications, 802.22 has developed a reference model.
Action Item: Gerald Chouinrd will provide this and additional input regarding an article in Communication magazine.
The SDR Forum has developed use cases. Pat Carson with TDK and Joe Mitola from Stevens Tech are the contacts.
The Chair asked for a volunteer to makes contributions to summarize and outline these use cases, and lead ad hoc meetings.
Action Item: Nanci agreed to spearhead efforts in this area.
|5.03 |DT | Identify what functions may be common across 802 technologies |Sherman |10 |01:35 PM |
The Chair expressed the intent to identify those aspects that should be standardized.
All protocols will have to implement various policy and policy interfaces. Can be implemented via on line data base. Need to determine which would apply to process the database. 802.22.2 defines a recommended practice for a database interface.
Spectrum users need to access database and get the frequencies where they can operate. That work doesn’t belong in a recommended practice. Should be an actual standard. Could be common across all of 802. It’s not just a database, it has to put policy in place to perform processing. Mandatory for fixed and portable devices. Sensing is part of the policy and has to be included in the engine. Are there things that could have a common definition. Don’t have to apply them universally.
The meeting was interrupted, all logged off at 1:45 to allow AT&T to add more ports and resumed the call at 1:50.
If going to have a common engine, not only database standardized but language or syntax must be common. Policy engine is the term in use. Language of the policy engine needs to be standardized. 1900.5 is working in this area. 1900.5 liason might be helpful for this process. SCC 41 is sponsor for 1900 WGs. Desirable to establish a formal liaison.
Action Item: Joanna Guenin who is the Chair or SCC 41 tentatively agreed to share the liaison position between SCC 41 and the Whitespace ECSG with Dan Lubar who will back her up. Dan is a voting member of 1900.6.
Discussion occured on standardization of a common sensing approach. Sensing not centralized, millions of sensors trying to feedback to the database. Database is mandatory. All incumbent and whitespace devices must be sensed. The technique does not need to be standardized; however, reporting structure could be standardized. 1900.6 is working on this.
Concern was expressed that sensing could result in denial of service. The Chair instructed that discussing specific approaches was out of scope, the objective for this activity was to determine where a standard might be useful.
Any other areas for standardization? Multiple access approaches, so different technologies don’t interfere with other. Fair sharing between protocols of spectrum in the white space.
Works best to get someone to spearhead this effort. The Chair asked for volunteers. No one stepped forward at this time.
|5.01 |DT | Assess the impact of the FCC White Space R&O on IEEE 802 activities |Sherman |10 |02:06 PM |
The Chair asked Peter Ecclesine to lead the conversation. This doesn’t impact just wireless, but wired standard as well since access to the internet would be over both types of connections. Issues include security each station acting as the master. Database process will exist that lists the protected services. Also list of available open channels.
There is less available white space in metropolitan areas than more in rural areas. Have to work within Part 15 except for experimental licenses. How often does database have to be refreshed? Daily or every time you access. Within a minute if a device moves.
Applies broadly across 802 but need a specific list of capabilities that need to be addressed. Impact to 802.22 has been considered. The GERDECS doc identifies some items. Must provide goeolocation is some areas depending on requirements. Who in 802.22 can provide inputs on what has been done..
Action Item: Gerald Chouinrd to provide a pointer to key docs and will forward contribution numbers for 802.22 for security work.
The document number for the GERDCS presentation is: 22-08-0206-01-0000-i-reede-amerisys-com.pdf.
Can we do something like that for 802.11? Rather than a dedicated task group, Peter Ecclesine suggested it might be possible to accomplish any required modifications by inserting comments into ballots to cause them to be addressed.
|5.04 |DT | Begin technical discussion on how to enable coexistence between various |Sherman |10 |02:21 PM |
| | |802 technologies in the shared TV white space spectrum | | | |
Steve Shellhammer opened the discussion. We are developing multiple standards within 802. We need to investigate what kind of changes would be required to make them co-exist? How easy or how intrusive to the standard? Another question is, how likely is that these different standards are going to be implemented in the same area where we need to start worrying about coexistence.
The group discussed three aspects of interest: sensing, coexistence, and self-coexistence.
Recent presentation made in 802.19 to address coexistence between 80.11. and 802.16.
If FCC comes up with rules for high power use, this will impact IEEE 802. Presentation in 802.18, document #40 from July 2008 is of interest.
|5.05 |DT | Prepare a Tutorial for March Plenary |Sherman |10 | |
N/A
|5.06 |DT | Make recommendations to 802 EC by March 2009 on next steps |Sherman |10 | |
N/A
|6.00 | |ADJOURN TELECONFERENCE |Sherman | |02:30 PM |
Wrap up discussion. Did not have time to address 505 or 506 and will lead off with those on the next call in two weeks. Any contributions that we give to the EC would be approved by this study group. The Chair encouraged participant to have some adhocs.
We will have a deadline for comments to the FCC on the R&O. Deadlines are 30 days for the comment period, amd 30 days to respond to comments after published. Therefore, we only have two or three teleconferences to work on this. 802.18 is having an emergency ad hoc to respond to the FCC and is waiting for input from 802.22. 802.22 has to formulate a reply within 20 days after publication, when the clock starts, since 10 days will be needed for .18 to work on it. 802.22 will start discussion on this Thursday.
Steve Shellhammer volunteered to be vice chair for this study group. No other volunteers. We will have a vote on this during the next teleconference but are open for other volunteers.
Action Item: The Chair will send an email to notify participants of the upcoming vote.
Dan Lubar will act as secretary for next telecon. Steve is going to lead some coexistence ad hocs and welcomes participation.
Adjourned at 2:37pm.
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