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[00:00:00] [singing] It's time for meaningful insights, every researcher's delight, it's data night! [end singing].Interviewer: Hello and welcome to Data Night with the Odom Institute. I'm Kasha Ely and with me today is one of our Thomas M. Carsey Graduate Student Symposium finalists, Andrea Lorenz Nenque, who is a PhD student in the Hussman School of Media and Journalism. Hi Andrea.Andrea Lorenz Nenque: Hi, Kasha. Thank you.Interviewer: So excited to have you here. So for our Symposium, Andrea has submitted an amazing project that she's working on. Andrea, can you tell us the title of your project?Andrea Lorenz Nenque: Thanks. So my project is URGENCY, AMBITION AND AUTHENTICITY: Exploring the experiences of women running for office post-2016.Interviewer: Great. And this is obviously very topical Right now. As part of the Symposium, we had some of our judges submit questions about your project and we're gonna go through those and give you a chance to respond and they will check it out. And then, everyone listening, there's also a popular vote category so keep an eye out for that. Voting will take place during University Research Week, which is October 19th through the 23rd, and winners will be announced on October 23rd. So, you ready to dive into these questions?Andrea Lorenz Nenque: Yeah. Definitely. I'm excited.Interviewer: Awesome. So the first is, did the candidates you interviewed win their elections?Andrea Lorenz Nenque: More than half, 21 out of the 37, won a general election. A handful are running for the first time right now, so they won their primaries and advanced. And a third had lost a primary or general. Out of those, most went on to run again and they either won the next election or two, or they're running now. One just lost a primary in 2020. I'd like to mention that three of them had such terrible experiences that they don't know if they're ever going to run again.Interviewer: Oh wow.Andrea Lorenz Nenque: So, I bring, yeah, and I bring that up just because many of the women were new to politics and they were scared [00:02:00] that they would be publicly attacked by their opponents, and many of them did experience that in some way or another but they went on to run again or they went on to win. But, these three women's were so similar and severe that I think they beg attention to the effects that these tactics can have on the attrition of political participation of women in both parties, because it did happen. It did happen to both Republican and Democratic women in this group of three.Interviewer: Interesting, thank you. Good to know. Next question. One of your preliminary findings is about outside organizations. Your poster says that ideologically Left groups had a major influence on recruitment and campaign strategy, and that Republicans did not benefit from such groups. Does this mean there's more support for women in the Democratic party? Why or why not?Andrea Lorenz Nenque: Well first, I'll say that participants, my participants, heavily skewed Democratic because, so I do have more data on them. And also we know that there are more women running on the Left for the first time since 2016 than in the GOP, that actually, that group actually declined, so the women on the Left were easier to find. So most of the women on the Left had attended trainings by non-partisan organizations, which were not Democratic in name, but they each had parameters that made it so that Republican women didn't want to or could not attend, like using terms like "Progressive" or requiring pro-choice stance for example. So like the groups here in North Carolina such as LEAD NC or Equality NC which focuses on LGBTQ candidates or Lillian's List, and other states had similar organizations. So they, these candidates really benefited on, the candidates on the Left that attended the trainings benefited because some of these organizations would send interns, which is super important at this level of campaigning because you can't afford staff a lot of times and they would learn how to manage a campaign and so forth, that they weren't necessarily getting from the party on either side. [00:04:00] So, the Republican women just did not partake in those, could not. Some of them found support in partisan women's groups like Republican women's organizations or just female mentors in the community. But on the Right, they just didn't seem to have that large cohort experience that many of the women who attended those trainings felt, just this experience where they were able to support each other and form connection and some of them had Facebook groups that they kept in touch by. And so I think the organizations, especially on the Left, filled a void in the candidate training and recruitment, like Left by the parties. So, I don't know if there was more support within the parties for one side or the other, but for sure if you are a woman on the Left rather than the Right, you have a lot more outside help available to you right now getting your campaign going at this level, which I don't think necessarily is a good thing. As someone who thinks the GOP leaders are too extreme right now and since research has found that women on the Right are in general more moderate than their male counterparts, I would think that building an infrastructure of non-partisan groups that promote women running on the Right too, I think that would be helpful for our democracy.Interviewer: It's a really interesting point. Thank you for that. A large percentage of the candidates you interviewed were prompted to run for office by the 2016 presidential election outcome. Did you speak to any Republican candidates who were prompted to run for that reason?Andrea Lorenz Nenque: No. No. [Laughter].Interviewer: Okay [laughter].Andrea Lorenz Nenque: The Trump effect was only on the Left among the women. I interviewed one woman, a transgender Republican woman who, because there are so few, just describing her identity probably would identify her. I'll point out that I do have permission from her to identify her so--Interviewer: Good to know, thank you.Andrea Lorenz Nenque: So, but she did run for a state-wide party role, partly because of Trump's election in 2016, but the Republican women and some of the women on the Left, they ran purely to change things at the local level. Like, for example, a PTA president who wanted to increase funding for schools at the State level. Although, even though [00:06:00] there were many on the Left who mentioned Trump's election as a catalyst to run for the first time or to run for higher office if they were already in, I'll say that it was very rarely the only reason and it wasn't necessarily always just because they were upset with him or his policies. Like one, for example, one woman, she ran not because she was devastated or it woke her up, I mean as a black woman she was already aware and involved, but his election prompted her because she saw something, saw that someone like him could win. And I love this, she said, "Oh, absolutely anything is possible now."Interviewer: [Laughter].Andrea Lorenz Nenque: And so, she recruited herself to run, like, "If someone like him can run and do it and win, why not me?" And I heard that a lot among women who recruited themselves. It's like, "Hey, I can do that."Interviewer: Okay, thank you. Next question. Lack of support from state and local party leadership was cited as a common frustration, what kind of support could be offered that is not offered currently? I think you touched on this a little bit.Andrea Lorenz Nenque: Yeah. And so a lot of them found that support in outside organizations. Most participants said they thought that the local or state party wasn't necessarily doing a good job recruiting women in general to run for office or women with their intersectional identity. So, like, so some of the suggestions they gave for what parties could do more of, like having staff specifically devoted to recruiting candidates. 'Cause some brought up that it wasn't necessarily that the party leaders were like, were not doing this, it's just simply that they're so bare bones, especially at the local level or at the county level--Interviewer: Mm-hmm.Andrea Lorenz Nenque: -- that they just don't have people there to do that, to recruit candidates. Another suggestion was actively recruiting from parent-teacher organizations, which are heavily, heavily skewed toward women running those, and some of the women I interviewed actually came from those organizations, being leaders there. And also, one thing [00:08:00] was helping candidates with like practical advice that local candidates usually have to figure out on their own, that you submit, you run for office and then it's like you're kind of on your own and you don't really know what to do, and a lot of times if you're not in that network and have someone you can either pay or someone in your immediate circle know what to do, it's really hard to figure that out. Like what kind of bank account do you open? And things like that. Like I especially heard that need for practical advice from candidates without political backgrounds or access to resources, or in that political world. Like, for example, a Latina candidate said she has people, other Latino candidates find her from across the state to ask her these kinds of questions, because--Interviewer: Wow.Andrea Lorenz Nenque: -- she said the party was heavily trying to recruit people with that background but then they kind of dropped it and didn't help with those basic follow-through. I also heard from more than a few women who felt that the local or state party leaders supported their primary candidate over them, and it didn't happen in just one or two cases. It was several and across like geographic areas and parties, like so some of them even endorsed another candidate in a primary. And that's usually sort of a, not done, you--Interviewer: Mm-hmm.Andrea Lorenz Nenque: -- the party usually stays out of it and leaders usually stay out of it until there's a primary win, a clear winner. And it was always supporting a white man over the woman. Women who felt like they had put in the time like working their way up, attended all of these things for so many years, and sort of finally felt like they were ready and that they had built up this network and all of that to run, and then there would be sort of a man who was unknown who kinda jumped in in the primary and it seemed like party resources and all of that sort of would support that man. And I don't know, there's no way to really get that kind of data without listening to these [00:10:00] stories and I don't know how widespread that is, but again it was over a few different areas and there were stories like that. But I will say that women did say, I heard, everyone said that for the most part when they did win their primary, there was a general welcomeness and acceptance. So, it wasn't like, you know, I don't wanna make it seem like the parties are not being welcoming but there were little slights like that, that just sort of turned a lot of women off.Interviewer: Interesting. And did you get a feeling that those kinds of slights, did you see a cooling effect on that? Or were they just kind of like, "Whatever, that's annoying. I'm used to it. I'm gonna keep powering through."Andrea Lorenz Nenque: I think, well just the women I talked with, yeah, they were--Interviewer: Yeah.Andrea Lorenz Nenque: They still, I mean the thing was, about this, was that the women I interviewed were so determined for the most part to run--Interviewer: Mm-hmm.Andrea Lorenz Nenque: -- that it was like they did a lot, made a lot of changes in their lives, like change jobs, you know, one moved to a whole, like downsized houses so they could afford it. Like huge changes in their lives and a lot of them, most of them had children at home, and you know, that's a huge, when you're, when you have two working parents and you've got children at home, and then you also add on something that's going to take take you away for the evenings and weekends. I mean, they did a lot of different things. And some of the women were single parents and so they, there was just a lot of determination and I think that fits in with what other research has found about, in particular, the women and the people running right now, is that there was a determination that it's more important, like an urgency, "It's more important that I run right now then just let these things affect me." And yeah, so I think that the determination, there's definitely a determination I saw. But there are challenges, but they, these women at least, and of course that happens when you're interviewing women who actually made it to run [00:12:00], right? So, you have women who thought about running but then didn't for whatever reason, and I think that's an important group to include women who are being turned off from this and actually didn't make it to that point because I'm sure there's lots of great stories there that could help sort of figure out like what's hindering people from going farther.Interviewer: Absolutely. That seems like another great area of research. So, we've got one last question, and that is, is access to resources a cause or an effect of the factors that contribute to differences between comprehensive and cursory programs? For example, this is coming from a judge, I can envision a connection between stakeholder buy-in and resources available to allow for systemized processes, formal committees and designated roles, if the stakeholders are also decision makers who allocate resources.Andrea Lorenz Nenque: Yeah, that's a really great question.Interviewer: Mm-hmm.Andrea Lorenz Nenque: I guess, I don't know that I have the expertise to answer that right now, but I do think that the stakeholders absolutely have to be the decision-makers on who allocates the resources, because I just, I don't know that it can happen in any other way than people who are in it and who understand the stakes. Like one, and I don't know if this necessarily falls in with that question or not, but one additional challenge is the problem of raising money and just the whole system of when you're running for state or local office. I mean, we know that at the national level, but I mean there are some state-level offices that are not necessarily even statewide offices where women were having to raise like 200, 300, 400-thousand dollars, and city council races that were like hundreds of thousands of dollars. And I mean [00:14:00] that's incredibly difficult for most people to have access to those kinds of resources without leadership help to sort of access those networks that have that kind of money to devote.Interviewer: That's great. And this has all been really great. Thank you so much for joining us to talk a little bit more about your project. Before we wrap up, I'm curious, what brought you to this topic originally?Andrea Lorenz Nenque: Actually, kind of a fun project I started last year because you know, with the pandemic and being stuck at home with kids, I was like, "Well I'm gonna do something that just brings me joy." And talking to these women over the past few months, over the summer, and just a really hard time for everybody I think, it just really brought me joy to think about and to hear from women who really want to make a change and who want to do good and who are out there fighting, and it was just really inspirational and it sort of has, it just sort of, I don't know how to say it but it was just, it's just inspirational to hear from these women on both sides of the aisle. Even if I'm not necessarily on that other side, it's just to hear that there are people out there that are good and they want to make good decisions and that's really where it's at, is listening to these, listening to people at this level, especially women and who have never had the opportunity or never thought that there would be somebody like them who could be in office and who are getting letters from people who, like from other people who have immigrated from the same country they did, and to hear like, "Wow, I can do this. I could do this too." It's just really inspiring, I think, for this time, which has been really hard for the country.Interviewer: Absolutely. That's awesome. Thank you so much for sharing your work with us and chatting with us about it. Definitely look forward to learning more about your project as time goes on.Andrea Lorenz Nenque: Thank you so much for having me. This [00:16:00] was really fun.Interviewer: Definitely. All right. Everyone listening, the popular vote takes place from October 19th to October 23rd. Sit and listen to our other finalist podcasts, which are also available wherever you find your podcasts. Thank you so much, Andrea. Have a great day.Andrea Lorenz Nenque: Thank you. You too. Bye-bye. ................
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