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What We Haven't Said About The CARE Act And More0:04Hi, this is Alan gasman.?I'm at home where I should be and I'm here cosmically with John Beck and Christopher D Nicolo and we're going to talk about the new stay-at-home order.0:20We have a lot of questions.?We have a lot of comments.?We have a lot of suggestions we welcome yours.?You have our email address there for probably going to do a rehash of this tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m.?Called what we know now about the stay-at-home order because will be smarter than but we can give you a lot of information today.?I think everyone on this call knows that Governor DeSantis signed a stay-at-home our order yesterday.0:48He had a 4 Five-minute discussion of the stay-at-home order if you would like a transcript of that discussion, please let us know the discussion like many I mean the order like many legal documents has a lot of recitals and whereas Clauses but we can cut to the chase here and go straight to page five of the PowerPoint.?1:15Which says under Section A.1:20senior citizens And individuals with a significant underlying medical condition.1:30Shall I stay at home and take all measures to limit the risk exposure to covid-19??1:42While Florida law typically provides that a senior citizen is a sixty-year-old.1:50The governor during his 45-minute talk said that a senior citizen is a 65 year old and that would be consistent with Social Security Law and other Concepts and that would also be consistent with allowing individuals who are ages 60 through 65 to go to work in emergency rooms and intensive care hospitals and medical practices.?So we are advising our clients.2:18That in our opinion a senior citizen is a 65-year old.2:25In our employees who are 65 and older are subject to this rule without a question in my mind.?The death rate is much higher for people in this age group and while as lawyers, we always try to finagle and find ways around these rules from an ethical standpoint.2:49If you care for somebody who's over 65 years old, they probably ought to stay at What are the other conditions that cause you to stay at home without exceptions to the except to the extent that John and Chris tell you there are exceptions chronic lung disease moderate to severe asthma serious heart conditions.3:14immune system issues cancer diabetes severe obesity kidney failure and liver disease If you have an employee with one of these conditions and you tell them to come into the office because you are in an exception situation you may have issues.?So we take this very care.?We take this very seriously.3:44section B in concert with Federal ex federal and state experts all persons in Florida shall limit their movements and personal interactions outside of their home only to those that are necessary to obtain or provide essential services or conduct essential activities.?So notice that senior citizens and people with these medical conditions are not able to leave their homes for anything.4:22Now obviously there should be an exception clause for if you need to go to the emergency room because you have covid-19.4:34Or if you need to have a necessary medical visit, but those exceptions I don't see in the statute.4:44Let's talk quickly about enforcement of the statute.4:49The governor was asked.?How are you going to enforce this??What's going to happen is a criminal is it simple is it go to jail??And he said well, we can't force people to stay in their bedrooms.?We hope that people will comply with this but he did not comment on how this law was going to be enforced interesting.5:12I saw judicial order for Pinellas County recently, which said if you take someone into custody, The for violating a covid-19 law and they have any symptom of covid-19.?There is no bail.?There is no bail.?So those who may want to venture out to the beach.5:38And be closer than 6 feet to somebody with a cough may spend the rest of this 30 days in jail.?So I would take this very seriously.?Now what wasn't taken very seriously in my opinion is what an essential activity was the governor used the broadest definition of essential activity.?So if you're not a senior citizen, you don't have these medical conditions.6:08There's a lot of darn things that you can do.6:12He adopted the essential activity definitions from several different sources, and then he went even farther and he says here in section A 1 attending religious services in churches synagogues and houses of worship.6:33Number two participating in recreational activities with social distancing such as walking biking hiking fishing hunting running swimming, which I read to mean that if you're in a religious service, you don't have to obey the social distancing rules.6:54Three taking care of pets for taking care of a loved one or a friend and then of course you have other essential activities may be added to the list.?Now.?There's a lot of questions and quite frankly a lot of people on this call or asking the question is the practice of Law and essential activity is the practice of chiropractic medicine.7:23An essential activity, so I'm going to let John and Chris now take this over and tell us what they are thinking and what guidance they have before I do.?I'm just going to mention that this advisory memorandum was attached to the judge's order means of the governor's order and it doesn't really give a lot of guidance it gives you plenty of things to read.7:50Until you get to page that John can take us to and let the discussion in Sue here.?8:00Right.?So as Alan mentioned there's a lot of the definition of what is essential is very broad.?So you could pretty much argue that almost anything is essential under the statute.?For example for law firms.?We help clients with loans and financial services.8:25So that's something that you could easily argue is essential because it is Stayed in the order and not only that especially with the cares act coming out recently and the availability of these Federal loans to employers.?It's likely it's a great argument.?I think that we are essential in helping employers receive those loans to continue to operate especially if they're running what is clearly an essential business.8:59Yeah, John this it's really interesting because the the governor's order incorporates by reference guidelines that were issued on March 28 by the Department of Homeland Security and there's a bold paragraph on the first page of those guidelines, which says I'm probate.?Mmm.?This list is advisory in nature.?9:16It is not nor should it be considered a federal director for standard and then goes on to say that individual jurisdictions should add or subtract essential Workforce categories based upon their own requirements discretion, so, Florida what we've done is just adopt these guidelines as our list of what is essential than what's not essential in also there are orders from Miami-Dade County which outline and lists a number of essential and non-essential functions.9:45So if we go to slide number 49, I'm sorry 50 we can kind of get into some of the nitty-gritty and see exactly, you know, in some examples what is essential what's not essential and and these dozens of pages that were flying through right now are the guidelines.?So if you have trouble sleeping or if you're really interested in this stuff, go ahead and look at it.?You'll see that it's very Broad and with law firms and kind of Central Texas inch sorry, I'm Chris long before before we go forward.?There's something I forgot.?I apologize for interrupting.10:21What happens when the county law or the city law is stricter than the judge's order.?Then you follow the county or the state or the city law because I saw that and I was trying to page back to the governor's order specifically talks about the definition of essential services not expanding or Contracting.10:42From this city or county law the local jurisdictions are going to be the ones who enforced us from a practical standpoint.?You know, there's no state troopers or State Police aren't going to be going to each County in enforcing it.?It's going to be Hillsborough County or Pinellas County Sheriff's and our case here.?So I would think that the local governments to the extent that there are more restrictive than what we have here are going to apply this is kind of the Baseline as to what is prohibited conduct with that.11:12I just wanted to point that out.?Yeah with that said on it's really not it's going to be somewhat of a patchwork because some counties you're going to have folks that are or government government officials that are more strict and want more strict standards like in Hillsboro many of you who saw in the news that last week of a church held a service and the county sends a the sheriff's there to arrest the the think it was the priest or Minister for holding the service.11:42You may see that in some situations and other another counties may be in rural counties were cases aren't that pronounced??You'll see less enforcement and it's it's kind of an interesting thing to see how this is going to proceed.?I think the governor is really just saying look, we got this problem and here on our hands.12:00We all need to kind of sacrifice a little bit and he's set a baseline for these local counties and local municipalities to enforce and I think during his speech when he said we can't You to stay in your bedroom kind of indicates that he's more looking to the local governments to make decisions rather than having the state really be the one deciding everything under this right??That's right, John and certainly the so give us rare specifics now go ahead and give us more specifics as to what you have found as far as the definitions here, please it's going to take a breath of these guidelines allows a lot of gray area.12:39So for example in a law firm, Next there's nothing really mentioning law firms in the federal guidelines.?The Miami-Dade guidelines say that Professional Services such as legal and accounting services when performing services that are legally mandated are essential now, does that mean filing tax returns making S corporation elections making sure that certain other elective or business elections or made?13:09Probably, you know, the one of the biggest components So this is whether or not there's interaction with the general public and if you have a professional office and frankly, you don't see general public.?Then there probably isn't going to be an issue with doing so we'll get into here on the forthcoming slides as two more examples in the guidelines of how broad this could be.13:30So if we go actually to the to the next slide here, you know, the guidelines the federal guidelines make reference to the phrases who support or supporting so you have a Laundry list of items construction Food Service gasoline transportation and you before that in the guideline, you'll have a phrase that says workers who support or workers supporting.?What does that mean that law firms who advised those firms that do Logistics and groceries and that sort of thing are allowed to be in business.?It seems like they would the phrase support or supporting is pretty broad here.14:08And as long as you're not interacting with the general public, I think the spirit of these guidelines Mine's is to allow you to remain open to the extent That You observe these social distancing guidelines and really do what you can to limit the potential risk of spread of covid-19.?Miami-Dade County also said that businesses which supply all their essential businesses with the support or supplies necessary to operate and which do not interact with the general public are essential.?So let's think about this for a second on Friday of last week.14:42Week we had a lot of new law come out into the cares act a lot of borrowing and grant opportunities which can be very complicated at times and really difficult to understand.14:51So as a law firm that reviews these items and maybe assists businesses in getting the necessary borrowing and grants, you know, you would think that this particular phrase in the Miami order which is incorporated into the state order would apply to allow such activity, you know, it's there's really not a whole lot of Take examples.?And the reason for that is because there's just so many different variations of what can possibly occur.?So with that said, you know, as long as the interaction with the general public is not present a lot of these office businesses might be able to be considered a central.?So what else can you give examples of businesses other than law and accounting Chris that would come to mind as being essential for this?15:39Yeah, Communications bill pay would be one fulfillment John.?Do you have any other office supply companies that allow individuals to work from home??So if they Supply paper to somebody's home or other office supplies, they're considered a central.?I think one of the things to remember under this order is they do encourage working from home, but if you are a central that that you don't have to work from home, but there are a number of other.16:09The central businesses Banks making sure that the ATM have cash for individuals that take money out cashiers at grocery stores grocery stores are obviously essential.?Yeah, I mean and I think the idea here is to preserve the critical functions necessary to our infrastructure.?It's that really difficult tightrope of you know, limiting people from increasing the risk of spread of the disease while also not Savvy destroy.16:39When the economy in situations and destroying our way of life and our ability to get goods and services done that are necessary and kind of Towing that line and that's really where the fulcrum of this is.?We don't really know exactly how it's going to land on a lot of specific situations, but the general public if you avoid seeing the general public, that's a pretty good guideline to have you put a sign on your door and you put on your website not open to the General Public.17:09Like and that might tip the scales to where you wouldn't have to close.?We're not include we're not encouraging anyone not too close though.?You may stay open and have caused significant number of deaths that you may be able to not service the general public and be part of the critical infrastructure for the needed sectors and be able to stay open.17:35That's right it you know if it involves maybe one employee going into the business to making sure that mail comes through and you know, things are appropriately sent to the parties to assure that there's no you know laughs has an insurance coverage or there's no really significant adverse legal ramifications of reps not for sale that's seems to be within the spirit of these guidelines and certainly is within the spirit of social distancing if it's just one person.18:04I did want to point out Allen on the next slide.?There is a specific reference in the federal guidelines as to workers support the judicial system being essential now, whether that's every single office is up in the air, but you know, if Court activities involve such as criminal issues or guardianship issues or things that require Court to address issues.18:30I think that those functions Is would be okay under this particular guideline?18:38Likewise in the medical practice realm there are specific references to health care, you know, just because you have a patient who needs medical assistance that's emergent, you know, and it's not related to covid-19.?I don't think these guidelines preclude that treatment.?Of course.?This other orders have been issued as to elective surgeries not being permitted, right but nevertheless, you know, if you have someone who breaks an arm or requires some type of emergency.19:08See attention this order.?I don't think eliminates that yeah, I don't think the song any better at all anything necessary.?I would I would think would be completely allowed.?I don't see anything that would actually prevent it that you do have that one provision.?That seniors are not allowed to leave their home.?But obviously it's not going to I doubt it would be enforced if there is a medical emergency and they needed to get medical care.?Right??If one someone needs dialysis or something like that.19:38But certainly not eliminated by this order on the downside 1 1 question 1 one thought that comes to mind is what is the definition of home??Just so everybody knows about a week ago.?The governor signed another order that said that basically the air B&B industry had to shut down it said anyone who is not now in an air B&B in a short-term rental.20:08If not start one and there will be no short-term rentals in the state of Florida.20:15Even to Floridians.?So I think the air B&B owners of the world are now looking for 181 day leases and those of you who may not want to stay with your spouse in the house or with your family in the house Behold a maybe you have two homes because the order doesn't say you can't stay into homes.?It just has to say says you have to stay at home.20:42Go ahead.?Yeah.?I was just I would agree with with that.?I don't think it precludes you from going to another property that you have and certainly, you know, the idea here is it doesn't preclude exercise so long as you maintain social distancing guidelines one question that a lot of folks have is golf courses which have been open and the game of golf is kind of lends itself to a social distancing but hey, they're shared golf carts their shared areas nobody knows but I would expect that we will sue.21:10It's just as an example in Miami-Dade County.?One of the first orders that came out opened and allowed marinas and boat ramps and things of that nature but like a day or two later that was rude because there seemed to have been a lot of abuse and a lot of clothes conjugation of boaters.?If you have a boat, we just go out in the water and stay away from people.?I don't think you're going to get bothered because the spirit again is to keep people from coming together, but you know, we'll see as as the days go by more specific.21:40Is and how they're handled perhaps we'll see some more guidance on this particular exception from the federal guidelines.?There isn't an exception that says workers who are needed to maintain orderly market operations to ensure the continuity of financial transactions and services.?That is really Broad.?And if you have a you know, let's just say a business transaction where there's a sale of assets or sale of stock, you know, is that a financial transaction that needs to be preserved and that parties who are working on that.22:10It can continue to go to work in order to make that transaction occur, you know, perhaps maybe the spirit of this exception was to preserve our stock market and preserve our are Commodities and securities markets.?Nobody really knows but, you know, as we mentioned with the cares act having allowed so many borrowing and grant opportunities.?It seems that you know parties who are assisting with those types of functions and other important business functions.22:40Would be allowed to continue to work.22:43Likewise residential and commercial real estate services including titles Settlement Services are considered essential.?What does that mean??If you're a property manager, does that mean that you can still go to work?22:56Yeah, I've heard that in a miami-fort Lauderdale area.?There are still home sales going on.?It's just there's no face-to-face interaction on it.?So people are actually purchasing homes based upon virtual tours communicating with real estate agents who send them the different properties to look at and then the signing is almost all remote.?These transactions are still going.23:23Yeah it certainly you know this.?Like I said, it's the towing the line between providing safety and reducing the risk of spread of the disease and not eliminating functions that aren't contributing to the spread right??So that's it's going to be really interesting to see what cases in the future are looked at and I'm sure you know as we go down the road the governor or the governor's office May release additional guidance on some of these interesting points.23:53Another little cork here.?If you go to slide 55, you know hygiene products and services are essential businesses.?Well beauty shops that sell shampoo and conditioner what about hair salons that sell this type of stuff.?I know that my wife has mentioned as regretted the fact that well.?Hey, you know, maybe for the foreseeable future you're her hair salon mine up you open and we don't really know how these are going to be treated if there's an interaction with the general public.?There's less of a chance that such a business will be conducted.24:23That's essential right which I think is kind of the guiding principle here and it's just so broad I mean so many stores sell shampoo and other types of soap so almost any store that just as general retail could foreseeably qualify as the central right right now miami-dade's order from last week is she has a lot more specificity on slide 50 60, excuse me, you'll see that there's a lot more Local and a lot more detail as to what can be open and what can't be open now, certainly grocery stores Healthcare Providers gas stations Banks hardware stores that sort of thing.?Those are going to be open.?I don't think without any issue also UPS stores and packing ship those stores.?It looks like they'll be open as well as well.?In addition to post offices.25:15They'll probably continue to observe social distancing guidelines, but that's good to know if something needs to be sent via UPS So some of those groups provide notary services, even if a notary is needed certainly that that's still on the table restaurants and other facilities that serve food are still allowed.?However, the order which provides that insert in place dining is not permitted that's allowed or so to me still in place.25:45So that takeout and delivery are generally the only options for restaurants you I don't think that's going to change anytime soon until the governor makes a grand a grander change this order right??You can safely say those are restricted.?Although it goes to the end of April and may be extended.?We just don't know yet.?Yeah, you know and it's good to see pet supply stores things like, you know hardware stores full service and Landscaping which was very important because any of us who have young children a pool is a lifesaver this time of year in this type of situation.?So we want to make sure that our pools are already for me.26:23When did we also have childcare facilities for essential Services if they're carried out in groups of 10 or fewer that's permitting and well that's not going to have to shut down as a result of this order.?You know, this is I think this applies only to employees who are Exempted in order to work this might create some stress though.26:43If you have for example office employees that are claiming to be potential under these guidelines for taking up maybe childcare spots that would go to say Hey children are First Responders or medical professionals remains to be seen how that will be handled right??It's okay.?We've got a lot of about we have about two minutes here and then we wrap up.27:09Johnny water continuously.?Yeah, it seems a lot like the Pinellas County safer at home order in general and that business is still going to continue.?A lot of services will be a central.?It's just limiting your exposure.27:24This might be a little bit more strict because you do have a more definite statement saying that you need to stay at home besides essential services, but It's definitely the spirit of it feels a lot more like a safer at home order than a stay-at-home order.?Right??Yeah and those and those words are really used.?I'm sorry.?I don't go ahead.?I just want to mention we've had three questions during the webinar and they're all I am over 65.?Can I go on a two mile walk??No, unless you have a two-mile Homestead.?Can I go to the food store for groceries??28:07I'm Over 65.?No, you can't can I go to the drugstore for medicines??No, you can't.?Can I go to the doctor's office for appointments??Not legally under this judge's order.?Can I take my personal boat out in the Gulf??Maybe if it's a houseboat and it's your home.?The other question I had was I'm over 65.?Can I go to my office if it's in a if it's in a central office activity?28:37The answer is no you can't if you're over 65, you need to carefully consider what the situation is and the risk that you're taking for yourself and others you're more susceptible to the disease.?You may be more susceptible to sharing the disease.29:02We will go ahead and go back on tomorrow morning at 9 a.m.?And let you know what further developments have occurred.?We have three law students scouring the internet for more information on this we expect to be a little bit smarter tomorrow, but not that much smarter John and Chris any other comments or suggestions before we close out here in the next 30 seconds.29:30Just the comment that alcohol establishments liquor stores are essential businesses.29:35So no need to worry if you need to drink throughout all of this.29:41As our rehab centers where you'll end up later.?Okay.?Thank you very much for your questions comments and suggestions.?There were some longer questions that will be answering later on today.?Thanks for your patience.?May the rest of your day be very productive, and if you're a lawyer or accountant may it be actually billable.?Thank you.RE-GENERATE TRANSCRIPTSAVE EDITS ................
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