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ORAL HISTORY OF CRAIG RIGELL

Interviewed by Keith McDaniel

March 24, 2018

MR. MCDANIEL: This is Keith McDaniel, and today is March the 24th, 2018, and I am at my studio here in Oak Ridge with Mr. Craig Rigell.

MR. RIGELL: Rigell.

MR. MCDANIEL: Rigell. If I butchered your name, I apologize, but I tried. Craig is a long-time educator, and was in the Oak Ridge schools for quite some time, and we're going to get to that, but let's start with where you were born and raised, something about your family.

MR. RIGELL: Happy to. First of all, thanks for taking time. Looking forward to our time together today.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.

MR. RIGELL: It's going to be fun. My father was a minister, a traveling minister. So I was born in Gainesville, Florida, in 1947, just after the war. He was in the war and came back to University of Florida, and that's when I was born. Then from there, he went to seminary in Atlanta, Georgia, or Decatur, Georgia, and from there, ministered to pockets of Christians or churches all around the South. So I traveled around quite a bit ...

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, yeah.

MR. RIGELL: ... as a young boy. I was the oldest of, it turned out to be six boys in my family.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, wow.

MR. RIGELL: And so, we moved all over the place. My father was a highly opinionated preacher. In a little town in South Carolina in 1954, just right after Brown vs. the Board of Education, he preached a sermon about, basically, why can't we all get along together, and invited a group of ... a local black church to worship on Sunday afternoons in our congregation in the church sanctuary, because their church had been burned. It was the wintertime, and he wanted them to have a place indoors to worship. The next week, the Klan came and threw us out of town.

MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?

MR. RIGELL: And my father was kicked out of the Southern Presbyterian Church as a result of that. He spent a year back at his hometown in Panama City, Florida. Their family business were fishermen and timber men. So he hung out there for a year and ultimately ... So, once again we moved, and I went to school in Panama City. Then he was accepted into Princeton, a graduate program there in inner city missions. And so, then we moved to Hopewell, New Jersey, where he could go to Princeton for his graduate studies. Then from there, he moved to the city of Baltimore, Maryland, where we, of course, followed him there. There, he worked, created an inner city mission, which was a combination of Presbyterians, the Northern Presbyterian Church, and Quakers.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh.

MR. RIGELL: It was right in downtown Baltimore, on East Baltimore Street, if you know anything about it, back then, it was before the renovations and the renewal of the inner city, which occurred much later. So that's where I went to junior high and high school.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, okay.

MR. RIGELL: In the inner city of Baltimore.

MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? Let's go back. You said the Klan came and kicked you all out of town, how old were you at that time?

MR. RIGELL: I was in first grade.

MR. MCDANIEL: You were in first grade. So you don't really remember very much about that.

MR. RIGELL: I just remember the fear, and being scared, and my father explaining, basically, that he was for a team that wore a different color jersey than these people. That's how he explained it to me as a first grader. It was a tough time.

MR. MCDANIEL: So, did he always ... I mean, did he continue? Did he always have a passion for civil rights, equality among folks?

MR. RIGELL: If you had him in this chair right now, he would say he had a passion for the Lord.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, okay.

MR. RIGELL: So, no, he wasn't a real campaigner for civil rights, he just did what he felt God told him to do. He wrote a book called Fired Again and Again, Praise the Lord. That wasn't his only firing. When LBJ [Lyndon B. Johnson] came down with his Great Society, and began to put government money into inner-city projects, they came to the mission where my father was, and to the board of directors, and said, "We'd like to give you some money so you can continue your work, but you're going to have to do away with this religious emphasis." And my father said, "No, thank you. It will not work without the Lord involved in this." And so he was fired from that job. And then, and so on. He ...

MR. MCDANIEL: So he was fired so the others could accept the money...

MR. RIGELL: To get the money from the government.

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah. Yeah. The government.

MR. RIGELL: You know, we're not going to mix the two. So, he ended up starting his own mission independently, just two blocks away, so he could work with the same congregation. The majority of the folks in our church, growing up, were minorities. Whether African-American or Indian, like Cherokee Indians who'd come up to Baltimore. So, he was ... dedicated his career, certainly, to inner-city mission work with multiple races and creeds. And lots of gang work, lots of ... He was a primary target for anybody moving up in the gang leadership, where they would attempt to kill him.

MR. MCDANIEL: Really?

MR. RIGELL: So there was lots of violence. I have marks on me from gang issues where I was attacked and other things. And not just unique to me, all my brothers were ... It was a rough neighborhood. So, when I graduated from high school, I went to an all-boys high school. Public education in Baltimore then was heavily influenced by the Catholic Church, and so we were segregated by gender. There were two boys' high schools and two girls' high schools. When I graduated from Baltimore Polytechnic, I was accepted ...

MR. MCDANIEL: Was that the high school?

MR. RIGELL: That was the high school, yeah. And Maryville College, here in East Tennessee, was the school the farthest away from Baltimore that accepted me. That was my criteria. I wanted to get as far away possible. I'd never been here, I didn't know anything about Tennessee. I only knew that it was a church-related school that gave a discount to preachers' kids. And they had a wrestling team. That was my sport of choice growing up.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, okay.

MR. RIGELL: And so, I got on a Trailways bus, with a big old duffel bag, and rode all night long and then the next day, and showed up in Maryville and said, "Okay, I'm ready to go to school here."

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.

MR. RIGELL: And the rest is history, as they say. Really never left, except my time in the Army during the Vietnam War stuff.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay. What kind of impact, now that you've lived life and you've had your own experiences and you're able to kind of look back, maybe a little bit more objectively about your raising, your growing up, what kind of impact did, one, your father's commitment to his faith and his choosing to work in those circumstances, rather than some cushy suburban church, what kind of impact did that have on you?

MR. RIGELL: Well, it provided rich experiences in terms of working and living and playing with different cultures. And understanding others, and understanding that we're all human beings. It created in me a real drive to continue the work, in terms of working with underprivileged and folks that just didn't quite ... that the rest of society might look down on. So, I've always had that passion, and am still involved in some of that right now, with trying to save rural hospitals, and making sure that poor people get the medical care they need, but that's another story.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, yeah.

MR. RIGELL: But Dad was a very principled individual. I think it was Mark Twain who said, "Beware of zealots, for they are without humor." And he definitely was a zealot, in the sense of what he believed and what was the right way to proceed. Ultimately, he turned the mission in Baltimore, after many, many years, over to a younger brother of mine who also is in the ministry, or was at that time. And he then moved, with my mother, to Israel, where ... They lived in Israel for six years, ministering to pockets of Christians throughout that part of the world. Being the zealot that he was, he got in trouble with the Israeli state. They then kicked them out, they declared my mother and father terrorists, and banned them from entering the country.

MR. MCDANIEL: When was this? What year was this?

MR. RIGELL: Oh, it's ... I'd have to look it up and see.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.

MR. RIGELL: But, so then they went to an island off Greece, the island of Patmos, and Dad wrote the book that I was telling you about, Fired Again and Again. Then he said, "You know, I think we just need to go back to Israel. Surely they won't remember that they kicked us out." So, sure enough, they go in to try to go back in, and they're stopped at the airport and arrested. I get a call saying ... this is when I was at Willow Brook, I think ... "Your parents are basically arrested here trying to enter the country. They are enemies of the state," (because it is a church-state,) "and what do you want us to do with them?"

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, my goodness.

MR. RIGELL: So, I ... it turns out that there's an operation of a Christian outreach program in Jerusalem called the Christian Embassy, and they had a liaison with the Israeli government, a man by the name of General Zvi Gevadi.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.

MR. RIGELL: General Gevadi was sent over to meet these two people, and that started a lifelong friendship between Zvi and my father. They had both worked in inner city gang work, Zvi there in Israel and Dad, of course, in Baltimore. And they were the same age, cut from the same cloth, highly opinionated about their own ... but they loved and respected each other.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right.

MR. RIGELL: So, in fact, we've been honored through the years to have General Gevadi come visit us here in East Tennessee. He's the only Israeli general that captained a pontoon boat on Watts Bar Lake, I think.

MR. MCDANIEL: Probably so. I would imagine.

MR. RIGELL: Anyway, so Dad was filled with that, his drive and spirit. So I think that sort of principled look and view of the world is something that's rubbed off on me.

MR. MCDANIEL: And your brothers? I mean, did they ... I mean, did it have an influence on them as well, you think? I mean, a positive influence?

MR. RIGELL: I think so. It had positive and negative. It's certainly, that kind of opinion can drive folks away. It certainly did me. I wanted to get away from the violence as well as just the ... what I was experiencing there.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. And you were, you know, 18 years old or 17 years old.

MR. RIGELL: Exactly. 18 years old and ...

MR. MCDANIEL: You were ready to leave.

MR. RIGELL: I'm ready to go.

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, exactly.

MR. RIGELL: Just jump on a bus and get out of there.

MR. MCDANIEL: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

MR. RIGELL: But I have a younger brother who also went away to college, at Georgia Tech, but because, I think, of such a strict upbringing, went way to the left as far as his behavior in the '60s.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.

MR. RIGELL: But ultimately he came back and took over the mission work for a while, and is just a tremendous fellow, lives with his family out West. Then I have another brother who has been very successful in advertising and sales, and another who is a PhD biochemist here in East Tennessee. And another who went into banking, who's an adopted brother. So, my parents certainly lived their beliefs as far as taking in folks. We constantly had drunks and winos and anybody else that was on skid row would be there. You just didn't know who you'd wake up to in our home. It was a small, little two-bedroom home with lots of people. One little bathroom's all we had. It was just ... it was a life of poverty that they chose, and they could've, clearly, picked a different life. You're absolutely right. He could've done that, but no, he felt that was the life he ...

MR. MCDANIEL: That was his calling.

MR. RIGELL: Right. The person in all of that that I admire the most was my mother.

MR. MCDANIEL: Well, sure.

MR. RIGELL: Who was raised on that other side. A very well-to-do family. It was a World War II romance. Dad was ten years older than Mom. But she gave up everything that she had to ... for our family.

MR. MCDANIEL: Now, are they still living?

MR. RIGELL: No. My father died, he and General Gevadi were going to climb one of the big mountains in the Bible together, but his knees, my father's knees ... He had been in a plane crash in World War II, so he came back to get his knees fixed, and died as a result of the surgery. So, General Gevadi always felt guilty about convincing Dad to get his knees fixed so they could hike together. But my mother ultimately moved back to Israel and lived there by herself for six years, also volunteering at the embassy. General Gevadi would always make sure she had the latest and best gas mask and knew where all the shelters were when the bombs and rockets would fall.

MR. MCDANIEL: Really?

MR. RIGELL: But they lived that life.

MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.

MR. RIGELL: So ...

MR. MCDANIEL: So, anyway. So you had quite the upbringing, quite the experience.

MR. RIGELL: I think it really enabled me to maybe understand people and keep the focus on whatever is important within. My first true work experience other than delivering papers was working on deep-sea fishing boats in Panama City. So I'd work seven days a week from 4:30 in the morning 'til 6, 7:00 at night. At that point, you either were bored to tears, because nothing was happening, or you thought you were going to die.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh gosh!

MR. RIGELL: I mean, rough weather, storms and seas.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.

MR. RIGELL: And also we had customers who were with us. So, they were seasick, so I was having to deal with the sharks and also sick customers and everything else.

MR. MCDANIEL: How old were you when you did that?

MR. RIGELL: I did that for three years, the end of my junior year of ...

MR. MCDANIEL: College?

MR. RIGELL: High school.

MR. MCDANIEL: High school.

MR. RIGELL: I lived in a trailer down there on the docks, and worked. Again, to get away from Baltimore.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, of course.

MR. RIGELL: And it was a great life. Sort of a pirate's life, at that time.

MR. MCDANIEL: Well that was an adventure.

MR. RIGELL: But I did that for three seasons, three fishing seasons.

MR. MCDANIEL: Three seasons. So you came to Maryville College.

MR. RIGELL: Sure did.

MR. MCDANIEL: And you ... did you know what you wanted to do with your life?

MR. RIGELL: I thought I was going to go into the ministry.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?

MR. RIGELL: But soon, I realized that probably was not the direction I wanted, that my talents were in... So, I majored in history, first time through college. And wrestled.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay. You wrestled at Maryville?

MR. RIGELL: Continued for a couple of years. Injuries got me. But it still was a good experience. But I loved Maryville College, and still do to this day. Very involved in Maryville College and its outreach. Even as superintendent of schools, I would always make sure we interviewed some Maryville graduates in education.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?

MR. RIGELL: To see if they were a good fit for Athens or not.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, sure. So, you majored in history.

MR. RIGELL: I did.

MR. MCDANIEL: You graduated.

MR. RIGELL: Graduated, and had, back in those days, there was something called a draft…

MR. MCDANIEL: Right.

MR. RIGELL: …and a lottery. We sat around the TV...

MR. MCDANIEL: What year did you graduate Maryville?

MR. RIGELL: '69.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay. Wow.

MR. RIGELL: So, we watched the TV, and we watched the lottery, the ping-pong balls come out of the machine or whatever the way they did it, on national television. I had a very low lottery number, so I knew I was gone.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right.

MR. RIGELL: And so ...

MR. MCDANIEL: How did that work? Tell me, how did the lottery work?

MR. RIGELL: Every birthdate ...

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.

MR. RIGELL: ... was assigned a number.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.

MR. RIGELL: So it was based on your date of birth, 365 different birthdays. Your birthday had, so, number one, whoever had that birthday, those were the guys that went first. That kind of thing. Before that it was just a draft board kind of thing, and even that was up to the draft board. My draft board was in Blount County at that time, so.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, yeah. So, you knew you were going.

MR. RIGELL: I knew I was going. Went for my physical and all that sort of stuff. They looked at me, and I was a little bit thinner than I am now, and they said ...

MR. MCDANIEL: Weren't we all.

MR. RIGELL: …"You're a tunnel rat. Here's a .45 and a flashlight and that's what you're going to be doing." Your life expectancy was about 36 hours. Something like that.

MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.

MR. RIGELL: I said, "What else can I do?" And they said, "Well, we have an opening as a medic. But to get that training to be a medic, a combat medic, you'll need to sign up for another year." And I said, "Sounds like a deal."

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.

MR. RIGELL: I was beginning to develop some interest in anatomy and stuff. I had gotten a job to help pay for my first car of my own as an orderly in the Blount Memorial Hospital.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, okay.

MR. RIGELL: So, I knew that that was probably safe ... and would teach me something, too. I would develop some skills, I thought. So, I signed up for another year and went in the Army. Trained as a combat medic and ended up in x-ray.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really.

MR. RIGELL: So, as an x-ray technician, we x-rayed the wounded. Then, they realized that I had a talent for anatomy, and they said, “Here's Grey's Anatomy, why don't you teach medics anatomical structures.” So, I ended up teaching. I went to their teaching prep school. I was stationed at Fort Sam Houston, in Texas, where the burn center was. We took care of all the guys, the soldiers that got napalmed or burned in any way, shape, or form, in crashes. So they had multiple other injuries, but the commonality was the burn wounds.

MR. MCDANIEL: Burns. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

MR. RIGELL: Anyway, so I learned how to teach, and it was the best ...

MR. MCDANIEL: Excuse me. How much time did you spend ... Did you spend any time in-country, as they say, in 'Nam?

MR. RIGELL: No, I didn't. I would come down on orders, but because I was ... I had all these special skills as an instructor, my commanding officers would argue. I came down on orders to go to 'Nam three times, and all three times they waived it so that I could stay. I was the only guy in that area that had that expertise, that I had taught, so I was very lucky there.

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.

MR. RIGELL: And so, while unlucky I had to spend the time. I always say it was the most expensive clothing I'd ever received in my life. But it was wonderful because it influenced my direction and my career.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.

MR. RIGELL: So, I came back to Maryville College and got my teaching degree, and also got a science degree in biology. I was interested in human physiology and things like that. And lo and behold, in the spring of ...

MR. MCDANIEL: I guess you could come back on the GI Bill, couldn't you?

MR. RIGELL: Absolutely. Yeah.

MR. MCDANIEL: Come back and take some more classes.

MR. RIGELL: Worked fine. So, it was right after the military, took a few months to travel around the country and do that sort of thing in a van. Then came back to Maryville, where they welcomed me back with open arms. And with the GI Bill, paid for it. And I was ... I had gotten married in '69, right after graduation.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, okay.

MR. RIGELL: So we came back and basically started a family. My daughter, Jenny, was born when we came back to Maryville. So, my wife Anne ...

MR. MCDANIEL: Did you meet your wife at Maryville College?

MR. RIGELL: At Maryville College, right. And she was from Jackson, Mississippi. She was an English major at the time. We're some 48 years into that relationship now.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right. And there you go.

MR. RIGELL: Yep. So, back in Maryville, got that, and then two fellows ... there was a notice on the bulletin board, it said, "Oak Ridge Schools interviewing." So, "Oak Ridge Schools, tell me about Oak Ridge Schools," I went to the people around. "Oh, that's a great school system. Boy, if you could get in there, that would be great." So, Gil Scarborough and George Walker, two great Oak Ridge educators, came over and I got an interview with them, and next thing I knew, they called me over here to interview again and the rest, they say, is history. I got hired.

MR. MCDANIEL: What year was that?

MR. RIGELL: 1975.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, so '75.

MR. RIGELL: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

MR. MCDANIEL: So you'd just graduated, just recently. I mean, just you'd changed to that degree, teaching certificate.

MR. RIGELL: Just finished that degree, teaching certificate, yeah. Did my student-teaching at Doyle High School.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay. All right. And Gil Scarborough, was he like assistant superintendent at the time, wasn't he?

MR. RIGELL: No, Gil was the HR [Human Resources] director.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, HR director, I see.

MR. RIGELL: HR. George, at the time, was the ombudsman for the school district. He was assigned, I think his offices were at the high school, and Gil was right across the hall from the superintendent.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.

MR. RIGELL: Down at SAB [School Administration Building], I guess they called it.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, exactly. Exactly. So they came and then they called you over here to Oak Ridge to be interviewed.

MR. RIGELL: Uh-huh (affirmative). Sure. Robert Moss, at Jefferson Junior ... I wanted to teach high school, but they had an opening at Jefferson Junior High, and Robert Moss interviewed me. I think I had a little different credential than most, because I was older than most of the folks.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.

MR. RIGELL: I was willing to do anything they needed me to do, for sure, so. The interviews all went well. When I drove into town, interestingly enough, I got lost. I didn't ... I was scared to death I was going to go on some military base or something like that. So I pulled into Downtown and there ... I pulled off at this stop light, and there was a gas station right downtown. I pulled over and got out, and all of a sudden, here comes a fellow my size. Just my height. Just as greasy as can be. I asked where Jefferson Junior High was, he said, "Well, it's just right down here." I said, "Well, thank you." And he gave me great directions. So the first faculty meeting I went to after I was hired there at Jefferson, here walks in that same fellow, dressed, looking just about like he was when I saw him out of the oil pits there out of his gas station.

MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?

MR. RIGELL: Nick Orlando.

MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?

MR. RIGELL: So the first fellow I ever met was Nick Orlando, who gave me directions to Jefferson, and I ended up working with him at Jefferson for a number of years.

MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? My goodness.

MR. RIGELL: Great historical figure in this town.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh yeah, absolutely. So, had you ever been to Oak Ridge before, or did you know very much about it?

MR. RIGELL: I'd been there once as part of a science course of some sort, where we did some ... Actually I did a National Science Foundation research grant with rats. Because we were dealing with rats, we came over here and learned how to take blood from rats without harming them too much.

MR. MCDANIEL: Did you go to the Mouse House, is that where you went?

MR. RIGELL: Yeah. I went to the Mouse House, and one of the Lab areas, too, where we worked with a scientist to teach us how to do things.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.

MR. RIGELL: But that was my only exposure. Knowing that there were some real special people over here.

MR. MCDANIEL: But you knew what Oak Ridge was about. I mean, it had the National Lab and ...

MR. RIGELL: Yes. That's why I was ... You know, but whether I really processed it, I don't know. I just knew it had a quality school district, and that would be, to teach science there, would just be a great career move.

MR. MCDANIEL: And is that what you were going to teach at Jefferson?

MR. RIGELL: Yes. Yeah. I ended up teaching eighth grade physical science, and then ninth grade biology to some students as well.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay. So how long were you at Jefferson?

MR. RIGELL: I was there almost three years.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.

MR. RIGELL: Two and a half years. And then there was a program that the ... Bob Smallridge had just been appointed superintendent.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.

MR. RIGELL: And Bill Burroughs was the assistant superintendent. They started an administrative intern program with the University of Tennessee. So I applied for that, and got that position. It meant I had to move to Robertsville. So I was there half-a-day, and then I was in classes at UT half-a-day, until I got certified as administrator.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, okay.

MR. RIGELL: And even that, then, I still had to apply for the full-time vice principal position after that. So I was there for a year and then applied and was given the full-time vice principal position at Robertsville Junior High School.

MR. MCDANIEL: Who was your principal then?

MR. RIGELL: Tom Hayes.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, Tom Hayes.

MR. RIGELL: Wonderful man. I was very lucky to work for and with some great people.

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, that's true.

MR. RIGELL: If anything that comes out of this interview, I want to underscore the wonderful staff that are here, and the legacy that the pioneers left, all the way from Blankenship until, I'm sure, today.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, sure. So, how long were you at Robertsville?

MR. RIGELL: I was there ten years.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay. Well, let me ask you about being ...

MR. RIGELL: There's a lot that happened.

MR. MCDANIEL: I'm sure. Well, yeah, sure. What was it ... What was middle school like? You said you wanted to teach high school. And so, when you first started out. So what was middle school like for you? What surprised you, what about that?

MR. RIGELL: I was ... I fell in love with middle-school age children, although it was a junior high at the time.

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, sure, sure. And it was sixth, seventh ... seventh, eighth, and ninth, at the time?

MR. RIGELL: So we had the ninth graders. That's correct.

MR. MCDANIEL: All right, sure.

MR. RIGELL: So, the reorganization that occurred later had not started, as such. But I loved the energy of the, at that time, eighth graders, and just fell in love with that age group. I really, really clicked and enjoyed it. I had people tell me that they thought my style would work with that.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.

MR. RIGELL: And physical science was a little stretch for me, although I'd had all the physics courses, but you ended up like Merlin the magician. It was wonderful, introducing students who could think and really get hold of concepts. Some of these things that they never really understood what was going on in their lives around them. So, it was great. I really enjoyed it. Enjoyed my co-teachers, Dan DiGregorio, another wonderful Oak Ridger, was my ... taught right next to me. And lots of others: Lannie Moore, David Garner, Sam Williams. It was just a great staff of science folks. And not just the teachers. This is true through all my time in the Oak Ridge schools, but the wonderful non-certificated staff, sometimes referred to as support staff. There at Jefferson, Darlene Barksdale was ... she kept me in line as a young teacher, and would help me with my lab set-ups, and she was just wonderful. I found that true for everybody: administrative staff, teacher staff, through the Oak Ridge schools, just dynamite. Wonderful, dedicated professionals.

MR. MCDANIEL: So tell me about your time at Robertsville. I'm sure a lot happened, in ten years.

MR. RIGELL: It did. The ability to work with Tom Hayes, Tom said, "Look, we're going to do this as a partnership. I'm not just going to be the chief man. You do the budget this year, I'll do it the next year." Those sorts of things.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.

MR. RIGELL: So he was wonderful in the way he trained me, and taught me the education business, as a school.

MR. MCDANIEL: And he taught you how to be a principal, didn't he?

MR. RIGELL: Oh, absolutely. From there on to a school superintendent.

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, yeah, sure. Exactly.

MR. RIGELL: But Tom, my first two days on the job, he said, "Craig, I need you to take this." He was really into set-ups, too, so he said, "I want you to take this note out to that teacher out there on the playground that you see out there, and just give it to him, and say that I asked you to do it." So I took it out to this teacher, who shall remain nameless, and he absolutely blew up, the teacher did. I mean, I didn't even really know this guy, and he went through the ... He came storming into ... said, "Come with me!" We go into Tom Hayes' office, and he started screaming at me, "I don't ever want to see this guy again, he's not welcome in my classroom." Then Tom's just ... his eyes are twinkling, he's just set me up big time.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.

MR. RIGELL: And it turns out, with that person that did that, we became good friends, and actually lived next door to each other.

MR. MCDANIEL: Is there a ...

MR. RIGELL: But our first time together was a real set-up by Tom Hayes.

MR. MCDANIEL: Was he really mad, or was it just a ...?

MR. RIGELL: No, he was really mad. He had a pretty short fuse.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, okay. It wasn't something he and Tom had cooked up together.

MR. RIGELL: No, no. I wish that had been true, I think, but I could tell, he was really fried about something. But Tom was a wonderful teacher, and we lived through many things. A lot of things that you hear about today. I remember one situation where we found cut-outs of a gun, out of a library book. We found just the outline of a gun, and took it to the librarian, and Sue Diehl, the wonderful librarian that she was there at Robertsville, said, "I think I know that book." So, we then checked, and found out who had checked it out and went to him, sure enough, he had that book, and he had a .38 pistol from home, that he had hidden in the book.

MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?

MR. RIGELL: So, there are situations like that. Nobody knew about, but back in those days, we took care of it, with the police, that kind of stuff. But it didn't get all the press that it gets today.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, of course.

MR. RIGELL: So. I think the main thing that ... were the opportunities to do other things, too, at Robertsville. The staff was fantastic. I have a list of their names that I think so fondly of. Great teachers. Bob Stumiller was a guidance counselor that was, I think if his name hasn't come up, he's since passed away, but a wonderful ... And then, other guidance counselors, Diane Sexton, but Gary Cordell. The special ed department, the focus on individual talents of students and needs of students, by folks such as Norma James or Barbara Bundy. Great, great teachers there. Great science staff, English, foreign language. Just wonderful.

MR. MCDANIEL: Now, were you there when the change happened, from junior high to middle school?

MR. RIGELL: No. I was at Willow Brook when that occurred.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.

MR. RIGELL: So, we moved a grade up at that point, out of Willow Brook, because we were crowded at the time.

MR. MCDANIEL: So you were at Robertsville for ten years, and then you had an opportunity, they offered you a principalship, is that what happened? Or what?

MR. RIGELL: No, I interviewed. I first interviewed for a principalship at Linden, and did not get that principalship. At the time, Bob Smallridge said, "Craig, that just wasn't the right fit." So then I applied for Willow Brook, and sure enough, got it. Willow Brook was having a tough time at that point. But I had other experiences that I brought with me from Robertsville. I had started and directed our school's wilderness program, which were for mostly adjudicated youth here in the town that were high school-aged kids, and it was part in cooperation with the Outward Bound program.

MR. MCDANIEL: What does adjudicated mean? They've been in the court system?

MR. RIGELL: They are somehow in the court system, had some run-ins with the law.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.

MR. RIGELL: And if we didn't intervene, they really felt like there might be problems.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.

MR. RIGELL: So we blended kids that just wanted an outdoor experience with some kids that were pretty hard core. That was a program that we started, and it ran for almost four years.

MR. MCDANIEL: And you did that through Willow Brook?

MR. RIGELL: No, this was back at Roberts...

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, at Robertsville. Okay.

MR. RIGELL: Yeah, I went back to Robertsville to talk about a few things there.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay. Right. Sure, sure, sure.

MR. RIGELL: So, those experiences, though, were very helpful, certainly dealing with a little more challenging student. Although at Robertsville, I did handle a great deal of the discipline issues and those sorts of things that you'd find in middle school or junior high.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, exactly.

MR. RIGELL: So, the Oak Ridge Wilderness Program was a great program, and it was very successful in turning some kids around and getting them on a positive track.

MR. MCDANIEL: Is that something that you could do today? Is that something that, we've become so ... You know, that ... First of all, you can't do field trips anymore. Those kinds of changes come along. Is that something that you would be allowed to do today?

MR. RIGELL: Well, your comment about field trips I'm not familiar with, because I ...

MR. MCDANIEL: Well, we'll talk about that in a minute. I'll mention that later.

MR. RIGELL: Because I was a big proponent of field trips. But the Wilderness Program, it was definitely a field trip. I mean, we were out in the wilderness for nine days, carried everything we needed on our backs, 24/7. It was coed, so we had male and female instructors. We challenged them physically. I mean, it was very tough. You put them in situations where they fail, and teach them how to learn from that failure. so, I learned a lot. Just like anything else, when you teach something, you learn a great deal. But that would not have been possible without the Oak Ridge School having a place called the Teachers' Center, which they started, and those people, did a wonderful job. They sent ... made us aware as teachers, there were three of us that went, about Outward Bound for teachers. We went out to Colorado, spent a month out there doing mountaineering training. Not all together, separately, but it was from that idea that I came back, and we convinced the board of education at the time to budget this program to help intervene with these high school kids. It was great. Also during that time was the Teacher in Space program. I applied for that as the director and a teacher in the Wilderness Program, and that was a wonderful experience, where this great city got behind me. I applied and then was selected as one of the top finalists from the state of Tennessee, or for the state of Tennessee. The plant helped me, they brought ... their PR people worked with me, media people. So I learned so much about involving and communicating and working with the press, both media like this, but also the printed press as well.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.

MR. RIGELL: And that held great stead throughout my career.

MR. MCDANIEL: I bet, I bet.

MR. RIGELL: Tremendous training.

MR. MCDANIEL: So, what was the Teacher in Space Program? Was that ...?

MR. RIGELL: It was a program established by Ronald Reagan to ... mostly for publicity. But the idea was that a teacher would be sent into space, and would conduct a class lesson or two from space.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right.

MR. RIGELL: So, there were some 11,000 folks or applicants that got at the initial application. Some I think 4,000 across the country actually filled out the application, it was a very rigorous application. Several folks in Oak Ridge were interested in this. I was just lucky to be one of the state finalists and go for interviews in Nashville. What finally washed me out of the program was the fact that I was still operating as a vice principal as well as a teacher in the Wilderness Program, and they wanted a full-time classroom teacher to represent.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see. Right, right.

MR. RIGELL: Which made sense. But it was a great, great program, and certainly tragic, when the Challenger exploded. Of course, Robertsville, all of us were ...

MR. MCDANIEL: Watching.

MR. RIGELL: Watching, all the students. And so ...

MR. MCDANIEL: What was the teacher's name? Was it ...?

MR. RIGELL: Christa McAuliffe.

MR. MCDANIEL: Christa McAuliffe, that's right.

MR. RIGELL: Yep, yep. You know, at the time, all three TV stations were there with cameras rolling while we were watching. Then, when the explosion occurred, then I'm there with all the mics in front of my face kind of stuff, and getting reactions. We tried to keep the reactions to me as opposed to the students, for privacy. But it was a tough time, and also the feeling of, holy mackerel. You know, my kids ...

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.

MR. RIGELL: And I have some things that I brought that show you a little bit about there, if you want me to share that with you now, I can.

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, sure, that'd be fine.

MR. RIGELL: Get it out. I have this little satchel.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.

MR. RIGELL: One of the things that I carried with me through all that, this is my little packet for that, but ... I don't know how you want to do this with your camera ...

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, I can see it, just hold it up.

MR. RIGELL: But some of the ... I don't look quite the same, obviously, but ...

MR. MCDANIEL: That's All right. Oh, wow. That's great!

MR. RIGELL: So that.

MR. MCDANIEL: That's from Knoxville News Sentinel?

MR. RIGELL: Yes, uh-huh (affirmative). And then this is the ... just a news clipping where I'm one of the eight finalists, as well.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. Okay.

MR. RIGELL: But it was a tremendous program. Like I said, one of the things that I ... For instance, in this picture, you'll see ... Whoops.

MR. MCDANIEL: It's All right, we'll get it here in a minute.

MR. RIGELL: I'm holding ...

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, you're talking about this picture, here. I mean, the one you held up first.

MR. RIGELL: Let's see, is it that one? One of these. Anyway, I'm holding up the shuttle. And this is ...

MR. MCDANIEL: There you go.

MR. RIGELL: I don't know if I'm not in that one.

MR. MCDANIEL: Not in this one.

MR. RIGELL: Okay. But I did carry this wherever I went, the little mock-up of the shuttle itself, of the Challenger.

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.

MR. RIGELL: So, I keep it as a memento of that whole event and activity through the time.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.

MR. RIGELL: Every now and then, on the anniversary of the explosion and stuff, I'll get calls from folks who want to talk about this whole adventure.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right.

MR. RIGELL: But it would not have been possible without the staff of Robertsville, and of the Oak Ridge schools supporting that candidacy. So, again. I benefited greatly from it, and appreciate it.

MR. MCDANIEL: And you ... So, you left, after ten years or so, you left Robertsville, and then you became the principal at Willow Brook?

MR. RIGELL: That's correct.

MR. MCDANIEL: And you said, a few minutes ago, that Willow Brook had its challenges.

MR. RIGELL: It did.

MR. MCDANIEL: So, let's talk about you being at Willow Brook.

MR. RIGELL: Willow Brook was a great opportunity, because we really didn't have a school to go to. There was full renovations going on. They had completely gutted certain areas, taking out all the asbestos. You couldn't even enter the school.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right.

MR. RIGELL: So, when I first became principal, I was lucky enough to ... we were set up down at central office and made our school office there. So we got the program going.

MR. MCDANIEL: What year was that?

MR. RIGELL: It was '88.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, so in '88.

MR. RIGELL: I think so. Fall of '88.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.

MR. RIGELL: I think the thing that unified us all was, we had to work against something. We were working against all of this noise, the construction. And the staff really came together. Prior to that, there had been some issues with leadership at the time, and so it ... I think it was a very comfortable thing, because I had been through the renovation at Robertsville, so I'd already done one school renovation, and to do another one, we just got things organized and rolled up our sleeves. The teachers were having ... they'd teach in this classroom one week, and then the next week, because of the scheduled work, we'd have to move them to a whole other section of the school. So they were not able to nest much at all that year. Which is ... that sort of unstableness was the same sort of unifying challenge that I think the teachers back in '44 felt, when they started out with just 600 students at the beginning of the year on October 4th, and by the end of the year they had over 5000 students. And by the next year, they had over, what was it? 11,000 students. So, from 600 to 11,000 in two years. Lots of challenges. Well, that same sort of thing happened at Willow Brook, in a very smaller scale.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.

MR. RIGELL: I just fell in love with the staff there, and the students. They had special needs, there was a unique, there was a ... The school at that time had a reputation of being the poor school in the city. And ...

MR. MCDANIEL: And why is that? Is that just because of the community, the area ...?

MR. RIGELL: I think the neighborhood that they served.

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah. Yeah.

MR. RIGELL: But it didn't mean that they couldn't learn. It didn't mean that they shouldn't be challenged. And the teachers were doing that. They just weren't getting the recognition that they needed to get for all their hard work. So, that was really my job, was to get them that recognition. In doing so, wonderful people like Tom Gentry, who you've talked about, and other folks there, Mike Bundy, school counselor, but the teachers there were tremendous. They're, again, like the support staff, like I mentioned earlier. Gayle Ward, school secretary, Shari Bath ... It just goes on and on, the people who gave more than just a regular eight-hour day to those families and students there at Willow Brook. So it was a wonderful ... I was there 12 years.

MR. MCDANIEL: Were you? Okay.

MR. RIGELL: And during that time, I had already gotten my Master's back when I was at Robertsville. Went on and got my Doctorate, from the University of Tennessee, in leadership studies. I had gone to Oxford to study over there at their leadership program, and had come back. Through all of that, the school continued, Willow Brook continued to grow. Test scores just skyrocketed. Wonderful reading initiatives. A reading teacher, great historical figure, Martha Lewis, and at Willow Brook was the reading teacher, but she would sponsor these activities and get me in the weirdest positions. For instance, she said, "Craig, I need you to sit on top of the chimney at Willow Brook," which is 80 feet in the air.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.

MR. RIGELL: And she said, "What we'll do is, we'll have the kids, if they read enough books to 'fill' that chimney, then you can sit on top of it." "Fill" in quotes, of course.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, of course.

MR. RIGELL: So they had the math problem of trying to figure out the volume, of how many books it would take. So they did all the calculations with the math folks, and then the kids set about reading. And lo and behold, they read enough for me to get up there. So the fire department here came with their hook and ladder truck, and put me on top of that chimney.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, my.

MR. RIGELL: We had made a platform that I could sit up there. Then each class would come out, and I'd lower a basket down by a rope, to the ground below, where they would put their favorite book in. I'd hoist it up while I was up on the chimney, and read them their favorite story from sitting on top. It got caught up by the national press, and international. I was interviewed by numerous radio and press folks. The farthest away was Adelaide, Australia.

MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.

MR. RIGELL: I did a morning program from up there on top of the chimney. Ladies Home Journal did a full front-page feature photo of me up there on the chimney. But all thanks to Martha Lewis and what she put me up to. So, anyway.

MR. MCDANIEL: And Robertsville, I mean, excuse me, Willow Brook had kind of a reputation of being a reading school, from the way that I understood it.

MR. RIGELL: Good. Well, there was a huge emphasis, because we knew that was a gateway skill, in terms of them being successful. There was a large amount of turnover in students, because you're in a lot of rental property. So you want to make sure that when you touch that child, you really are able to touch them and really set a hook that they'll benefit from. So we did other things, too, at Willow Brook. Not just the reading initiatives I was talking about, but a lot of school pride things, where we had parades and celebrated student successes. But we also started something called a Family Resource Center, which was a state program that Bob Smallridge said, "Craig, I want you to go to look at this." So I went, and basically what we developed, through a wonderful person that we hired by the name of Joy Bruce, was basically a full-service school where we, not only fed breakfast and lunch to students, but we had after-school care programs, before- and after-school care programs we started there at Willow Brook. The Family Resource Center met the needs of the families, because kids would come to school, but their parents might have problems, and they needed help.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.

MR. RIGELL: If they were looking for a job, they might need a new set of teeth before they went for the interview.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right, sure.

MR. RIGELL: Things like that. And it was a novel approach at the time. We actually went up to Kentucky to see one in full ... where it was wide open and going, and came back and started that program for the Oak Ridge schools at Willow Brook.

MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.

MR. RIGELL: And then we began to ... The staff was so open to ideas. One of the things we realized was that we didn't have was much excellence in science teaching. Teachers were great in reading and math and other things, but actually science was ... they didn't feel confident in it. So we, through the United States Navy, began a science discovery center. And one of our teacher's husbands was a member of the US Navy Submarine Corps, on the U.S.S. Tennessee. They had orange and white teams. The orange and white teams, we had, in the center of Willow Brook was a big courtyard that was just ... not much going on. So, we got with David Wilson with the Oak Ridge nursery at the time, and these sub crews, and they completely turned that inner courtyard into a science wonderland.

MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?

MR. RIGELL: It was amazing what these guys from the Navy would come and do for us. Volunteered their week off to come work here in Tennessee from the U.S.S. Tennessee. We also created an indoor science discovery center, and hired a wonderful, talented person named Kris Lite, to actually operate that science discovery center. She just turned the world upside down in a positive way and helped our students with their science studies. It's just a very unique situation. Another example of the wonderful staff and all the things that the folks, again, like Tom Gentry and others did. Also ...

MR. MCDANIEL: Now ... Go ahead.

MR. RIGELL: Well, the other challenge that we faced was, how do we deal with summer learning loss?

MR. MCDANIEL: Well, that's what I was about to get to. Let's talk about that.

MR. RIGELL: Well, it's a real problem. Especially in homes where you don't have a lot of books. So, everybody loses over the summer in mathematics, but usually, your folks that have more books in the home will not lose as much over the summer, because they do bedtime stories at night, maybe. Nobody does a bedtime math problem.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right. Exactly. Well, maybe the mathematician ... the kid whose parents are mathematicians.

MR. RIGELL: Maybe it's a word problem, you read it.

MR. MCDANIEL: Exactly, exactly.

MR. RIGELL: So, the staff began to talk about, how do we attack this problem? We knew there was a program in Maryville called Fort Craig Elementary, which was in a, quote, a "year-round calendar" approach. So, the staff said, "Hey, we want to begin to learn more about this.” So we used our workshop time to divide up as teams and to go visit Fort Craig and then come back and share what that team learned with the rest of the faculty, generate more questions, send another team. Pretty soon everybody at Willow Brook, as far as staff is concerned, not just teachers, now, everybody ...

MR. MCDANIEL: Everybody.

MR. RIGELL: Even the custodian, or the custodial staff. Wonderful head custodian named J.B. Potter. Just grandfathered everybody, just a great, one of those unique fellows. But everybody went. We always came back and then had discussions about what we learned, whether we thought it might work. Ultimately, the faculty decided, yes, we think it might work. There were a few people, of course, who said, "No, I don't think so." I was actually dragged a little kicking and screaming down that road, too, because I wasn't convinced at the time. But we went to the board of education, and said, "We would like to convince our parents ..."

MR. MCDANIEL: Take your glasses and put them in your pocket or something, yeah, that'd be great, thanks.

MR. RIGELL: Okay. We would like to convince our ... talk to our families. Explain the reason why we're doing this, or thinking about this. And then have an election to see if they would like to change.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.

MR. RIGELL: First we had to have an election on staff, to see how they felt. All but two were in favor of it, and the reason why they weren't for it, they were concerned about their own small children at home and what would happen.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.

MR. RIGELL: So we began this education process.

MR. MCDANIEL: And explain exactly what the change would be.

MR. RIGELL: Thank you. We call it a 45-15, so you go to school 45 days, and then you have 15 days off. However, five of those days were for remediation.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.

MR. RIGELL: So, in effect, if a student, during the 45 days, did not grasp the concepts, rather than waiting 'til summer vacation to do some sort of summer school program, you could attack that remediation immediately, and actually have a much greater impact right off the get-go, and get them ready for the next session of learning. They still had a summer break, but it wasn't the traditional summer break.

MR. MCDANIEL: It was six weeks or so, wasn't it?

MR. RIGELL: Yes, exactly.

MR. MCDANIEL: So basically you'd go for nine weeks and you'd be off three weeks.

MR. RIGELL: Right.

MR. MCDANIEL: Unless you needed some kind of intercession or remediation, and then you'd ...

MR. RIGELL: You've got the term, yes sir.

MR. MCDANIEL: You'd have one week. I've got two teenagers. I know about intercession. They'd have an opportunity to get caught up on what maybe they didn't get.

MR. RIGELL: Exactly. And we also had other unique programs, too, that were a little different. I know Gordon Campbell, one of the teachers at Willow Brook, taught a science course called "the science of fishing."

MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? Well, there you go.

MR. RIGELL: We looked at habitat and everything else, and the anatomy of fish, but he would take them fishing at a local farmer's pond, that kind of thing.

MR. MCDANIEL: So you had ... You said you had a vote first with your staff.

MR. RIGELL: Yes. Over 90% were in favor.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.

MR. RIGELL: But, like anything, there were some that weren't.

MR. MCDANIEL: Well, sure, of course.

MR. RIGELL: But they stayed with us as far as the learning process.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.

MR. RIGELL: Then we began to host ... We asked our PTA [Parent Teacher Association] to host information meetings, but we didn't want to host them at schools, because sometimes it's hard to get people to try to come to a school, but they'll go to their neighbor's porch. So we basically got off our duffs, went up into the middle of Oak Ridge here, and invited ourselves for tea and donuts on somebody's porch. We brought the chairs, we brought ... we didn't need tables. We'd just sit on the front stoop or whatever and just talk about what we were thinking about, and educate them. And when it was all said and done, we had the League of ... because we were worried about people saying we might somehow influence the vote of the families, we had the League of Women Voters come in and host the election for us.

MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?

MR. RIGELL: And so they came in and hosted and ran the ballot boxes, because in some families, now, each family got a vote. But sometimes the husband and wife disagreed.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right.

MR. RIGELL: So one would try to come in the front door and the other the back door to get to the ballot box before the other.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right.

MR. RIGELL: And these nice ladies who were in the League of Women Voters could politely say, "I'm sorry, but your husband's already voted," or whatever.

MR. MCDANIEL: So each family got one vote.

MR. RIGELL: One vote.

MR. MCDANIEL: That's how that worked. Okay.

MR. RIGELL: Yep. Each household. And, it ended up, we had to get more than 70% of a vote in a positive way to make this change. We're talking about an existing school calendar changing in, basically the next summer. So you get out in May, and you're going to start school back in July. Huge change from a tradition to a non, a traditional calendar that had been going on here since 1944.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.

MR. RIGELL: And nobody had experienced it. We got just shy of 80% of the vote, of the families.

MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?

MR. RIGELL: So, we also, one of the things we asked the board was, don't force people to stay in that district if they don't want it.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see. I see.

MR. RIGELL: At the same time, allow people to come in who might want that calendar for their child. And that's exactly what the board of education agreed, and we had their wonderful support. So, some families left and went to other schools, because the calendar just wouldn't work for them, for whatever reason, and other families came in. So our net change in enrollment actually went up.

MR. MCDANIEL: Did it?

MR. RIGELL: And it brought a different blend of student, too, to Willow Brook. And was ... so that's where it started.

MR. MCDANIEL: And what year was that? What was the first year, do you remember?

MR. RIGELL: '94, '95 maybe.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, was it?

MR. RIGELL: I think so. Something like that. I can check here, real quick.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.

MR. RIGELL: From there, though, the preschool ... '95.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay, '95. Okay. All right, great.

MR. RIGELL: The preschool picked up and started the same sort of thing.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did they? Okay.

MR. RIGELL: Now, to understand more fully what was going on, it was really ... it cost more, because we ran ... we had buses. That ran during non-traditional times. And so that cost more for the school district to do things like that. The intercessions cost more, but we paid for that through extended contract. And it was a great program. But I understand ...

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah. And you didn't do a pilot. I mean, you didn't like try it out for a ... You just jumped in with both feet. Is that right?

MR. RIGELL: All of us did. Parents, teachers, and some of the teachers that were a bit hesitant were some of the biggest proponents of it once they saw it and how it worked for their students.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.

MR. RIGELL: So, I have nothing but kudos to the board of education and to the leadership in Oak Ridge schools, and the staff members. It changed everybody. I mean, it changed the way you clean the school from one school year to the next.

MR. MCDANIEL: I'm sure.

MR. RIGELL: Food service. Everything changed as a result of it.

MR. MCDANIEL: And now, Oak Ridge is not completely there, but they're more on a similar balanced calendar.

MR. RIGELL: Right. The balanced calendar has evolved from that. So, I'm very proud of the staff for what they did and the influences that it had. Since then, it's certainly spread in other areas across the country. But usually, it originally started to handle overcrowded situations.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, okay.

MR. RIGELL: Where you have different sets of groups staggered out, and one third of your school population would be on break while the other two thirds are in.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I see.

MR. RIGELL: To increase your capacity of your building.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.

MR. RIGELL: You know, the Oak Ridge schools had trouble with capacity right off the get-go, so they had ... they taught in shifts. There was a morning shift and an afternoon shift when it first started.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?

MR. RIGELL: Yeah. So, half the population went in the morning, from 7:30 to 12:00, and then from 1:00 to 4:30, the afternoon shift...

MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?

MR. RIGELL: That's the way it was set up here.

MR. MCDANIEL: My goodness.

MR. RIGELL: So, we didn't have that kind of problem. Our motivation was the problem of summer learning loss.

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, yeah, sure. Because it would take you ... It'd take weeks to get them back to where they were when they left.

MR. RIGELL: Always, yes.

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, left school before summer.

MR. RIGELL: It's a phenomenon that there's been lots of research on that certainly supports the reason why we made the change and were interested in that.

MR. MCDANIEL: So, you were at Willow Brook for 12 years.

MR. RIGELL: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

MR. MCDANIEL: And then, and then what happened?

MR. RIGELL: Then, the city of ... I had gotten my Doctorate, at that time, and the city of Athens announced the position ... Their superintendent, long time superintendent Robin Pierce was retiring, and they came and said, "We think you're perfect for our school district. We've read about all these things that you've done," and all this kind of stuff. So I said, "Well, I'll go in. I'll certainly talk to you about it." I wasn't looking to leave at all.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right. And they recruited you.

MR. RIGELL: They recruited me. But then I went through the normal process, which is ... It was run by the Tennessee School Board Association, the actual application process. And so, went down there and spent ten years in the Athens City Schools as superintendent of schools.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?

MR. RIGELL: And retired in 2010 from public education. And after that, was ... I thought I was retiring, but was hired by Oak Ridge Associated Universities. They had a national K-12 STEM programs, Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math program. They wanted somebody to run that program. They were mostly working on post-doc stuff out here at the plants. So they hired me to come run their national programs, and develop a state-wide STEM program here in Tennessee. It was a great opportunity, and so I did that. And then after the ... got that up and going, and said, "Okay, it's time for me to retire."

MR. MCDANIEL: Again.

MR. RIGELL: Yeah. And they said okay. So then I started working with Bill Capshaw over at the Arts Center.

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.

MR. RIGELL: And I'm now a potter, and I have been doing that with Bill for four or five years now, and just thoroughly enjoy that. Then they came back and said, "We have this program in Washington, D.C. that we desperately need somebody to run." It's called the Einstein Fellows Program, Albert Einstein Fellows, which are a group of teachers, the best science and math teachers in the country compete to go to Washington, D.C. and spend a year and advise congress on legislation and other things that might be going on. They not only work with congress, they're assigned to congressional offices, but also they'll be with federal, like the Department of Energy or NOAA [National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration] or NASA [National Aeronautics and Space Administration]. So they'll get ... Well, I would place them in different agencies there in Washington, D.C, and that was a wonderful opportunity to fill in there. But I said, "Okay, I'll do it. I'll get it up and going," continue it going, it had been going on for some time. "But I need to be able to hire my replacement."

MR. MCDANIEL: Right.

MR. RIGELL: So, that occurred, and I was able to hire a wonderful person, that lives up there in Washington. I was having to fly up and do all that.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.

MR. RIGELL: It wasn't much ... It was a lot of fun to be in D.C, of course, with wonderful teachers, but now that's going, so now I'm basically a potter, and I do ...

MR. MCDANIEL: And you had mentioned something earlier about you spend time now trying to make sure that rural hospitals stay open, or ...?

MR. RIGELL: Yeah. One of the things that I've become interested in is this whole issue. You read about it all the time, there's some 16 rural hospitals in the state of Tennessee that have closed in the last less than ten years.

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah.

MR. RIGELL: And how do those people get access to medical care? And all the hospitals have cut, and just cut and cut services. And you just can't keep cutting. So, one of the things that I've been involved with is looking at having some laboratory outreach programs that the hospital does onsite, where they can generate additional revenue streams to help support and keep those hospitals alive. So, I'm working with the Tennessee Hospital Association and other hospital groups to see if we can't bring some of that to bear and save some of these hospitals. So it's my whole science and medical thing, still involved.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. It comes back.

MR. RIGELL: Yeah. That's not a full-time thing, but it's certainly something I'm interested in. One other thing I want to mention to you that shows the leadership of Robert Moss at Jefferson Junior High. One of the programs we started in '77 was called the Southeastern Consortium for Minorities in Engineering. It was a program to attract minority students into science and math, engineering programs. It was sponsored by Georgia Tech. Robert Moss sent me and another teacher, by the name of Martha Deadrick, to learn about it. We came back and started the program here in Oak Ridge. As part of that, we bought, and purchased, and put in place the very first computer in the Oak Ridge Schools, in 1977, a TRS-80, Tandy Radio Shack 80 computer that we used with those students way back when.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.

MR. RIGELL: So, that was the first computer to make it into Oak Ridge Schools.

MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?

MR. RIGELL: Since then, there's been a whole lot.

MR. MCDANIEL: Yeah, I would imagine. I would imagine so.

MR. RIGELL: That's the dinosaur. But it was just, again, the kind of vision that leadership folks like Robert Moss had.

MR. MCDANIEL: And that was kind of typical of the Oak Ridge school system, wasn't it? I mean ...

MR. RIGELL: No question about it. Even after ... Blankenship had a wonderful, a terrible job to do, to try to start a school district in three to four months. At the same time, he had a blank slate, so he could start it. For instance, the whole idea of workshops, the half day Wednesdays, and everything else. All of that contributed to this democratic approach of working with teachers to make decisions. As a result of that, just three years, in '47 I think it was, Oak Ridge Schools was recognized as the school district that the rest of the country should become.

MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?

MR. RIGELL: Because of the leadership of folks like Blankenship and their leadership style from Columbia University. So, that whole concept of reaching out, trying new things, I just was lucky enough to come along. Whether it was a wilderness program, or the Family Resource Center, or a non-traditional calendar, or working with minority students or at-risk groups. I was just lucky enough to be there at that time and be able to support those efforts.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure. Well, is there anything that you'd like to mention or talk about briefly before ...

MR. RIGELL: Would you allow me to look at my notes?

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, go right ahead! Go right ahead.

MR. RIGELL: I appreciate your patience with me.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. No problem, no problem.

MR. RIGELL: You can cut this section out.

MR. MCDANIEL: No, we don't edit, we just keep on going.

MR. RIGELL: Let it roll, huh?

MR. MCDANIEL: I will tell you, though, while you're looking, though, that there's ... There may be some, but most all field trips have been eliminated from the Oak Ridge Schools, in the last few years. Because of liability issues, and some other things such as that, is my understanding. So there's very, very few field trips that take place anymore. So. That was what I had alluded to earlier.

MR. RIGELL: Yeah, I hear that. I ... As you can tell by my involvement in things, I am an experiential learner.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, sure, sure.

MR. RIGELL: I think, very much adhere to the John Dewey philosophy, you learn by doing.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I agree.

MR. RIGELL: And I think that's so appropriate, and so ...

MR. MCDANIEL: That surprises you, doesn't it?

MR. RIGELL: It not only surprises me, it disappoints me. I mean, I understand those things, but good planning, good execution, and funding can make it happen, and happen in a very beneficial way.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, I agree.

MR. RIGELL: Whether it's the experiential learning at a field trip inside your school, or when we would take students from Robertsville down to Miami to study marine science. Or to Georgia.

MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? Wow.

MR. RIGELL: There've been lots and lots of trips that we've done.

MR. MCDANIEL: Wow. All right, I'll let you look and see if ...

MR. RIGELL: One program that we started at Robertsville, I was really excited about, it was a spinoff of the wilderness program, it was the Learn to Ski Program.

MR. MCDANIEL: Yes.

MR. RIGELL: Learn to Ski Program, that started in '83. It was a conversation between me and the then-owner up there called Ralph Lonz Ski Shop. We sat around his peanut barrel, and he was lamenting about the future of downhill skiing. I said, "Well, why don't we try to teach some kids how to ski?" And he said, "Okay, well, you bring some groups up, and we'll teach them. We won't charge them anything but just cost." So we started with a group of ten kids and four faculty members. What we learned, that the kids not only caught on, but they got to see the teachers learning a new skill. Created a whole new relationship and communication between the teachers and the students. So then that program grew, so, over the time that I was here with that program, we went from 12 up to 2,000 students that now learn how to be involved in winter sports and ski program, all at an unbelievable cheap cost.

MR. MCDANIEL: And what they would do is they would go Wednesday afternoon in January ...

MR. RIGELL: Right.

MR. MCDANIEL: And get on a bus, and drive to Ober Gatlinburg, and ski for the remainder of the day, for ... Now, I know now, or when my ... both my boys were ...

MR. RIGELL: ...program.

MR. MCDANIEL: Both my boys, and they're ... I've got one that's almost 18 and one that's 20. And they both went to Robertsville, so they both went to Ski Club, they called it.

MR. RIGELL: That's wonderful.

MR. MCDANIEL: And learn to ski and snowboard.

MR. RIGELL: Yeah. So, just snow sports. So I was really proud of that, because it really ... The staff could go and learn a new skill right there alongside their students, and both of them in the same class, learning how to snowplow or whatever.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, sure. Absolutely.

MR. RIGELL: And it was exhausting. Those teachers came in late that night, the students too, on Wednesday night. Now, with the little kids at Willow Brook, we went up on Sunday morning.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really. Okay.

MR. RIGELL: For the four sessions, we reduced it, but they were much younger. We didn't want them out that late.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, of course.

MR. RIGELL: And we didn't want them up there on any other time of the weekend, because of large bodies that can fall on you.

MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, sure. Exactly.

MR. RIGELL: So, Sunday morning ...

MR. MCDANIEL: Was a good time.

MR. RIGELL: Was a very quiet time on the mountain. Granted, they actually, up on the mountain, would have a church service, and the chaplain up there would host a little church service for those who wanted to participate. But you didn't have large, college-age boys acting somewhat irresponsibly and falling all over little kids.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.

MR. RIGELL: But by the time they woke up on Sunday morning and came back to the mountain, these are the big college kids, now, we were off the mountain and home by 2:00, 1:30 or 2:00.

MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.

MR. RIGELL: So, we had to modify the design, but that also came out of the Wilderness Program, and there are many kids that went through that program that went on and are working in the ski industry as a result of those programs.

MR. MCDANIEL: Wow, wow. Okay, good, good.

MR. RIGELL: So, that was one thing I wanted to mention.

MR. MCDANIEL: Okay.

MR. RIGELL: I think the opportunity to work with such staff as I mentioned some of the names, but, just really delightful people to work with. Certainly the leadership, all the way back to folks like Herb Dodd, who I know was a good friend, and hired, I think, Tom Gentry.

MR. MCDANIEL: Right. He talked about ...

MR. RIGELL: And probably talked about Mr. Dodd.

MR. MCDANIEL: And Mr. Dodd, he certainly did.

MR. RIGELL: Just so many other wonderful folks. So, no, I think that's it.

MR. MCDANIEL: All right. Well, thank you so much for taking time to talk with me today, I appreciate it.

MR. RIGELL: It's been a pleasure.

MR. MCDANIEL: Great.

MR. RIGELL: Thank you.

MR. MCDANIEL: Thank you.

[End of Interview]

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