That Witch Life – A Podcast on Living as a Witch in Today ...



Bonus Episode: Sigils In The Pandemic With Laura Tempest ZakroffIntro music 00:0020 years ago, three young friends realized they were witches. They scattered to different parts of the world following Magick and Spirit. Now, they're back in their hometown to share what they learned. Welcome to That Witch Life podcast. Your home for living as a witch in today's world.Courtney 00:49Welcome back, everyone. This is yet another bonus episode of That Witch Life, the apocalypse quarantine saga that we continue to have going on. I am Courtney. And I am joined by Hillary and kanani. And we have a special guest today who, it is her first time with us, so I'm going to go ahead and introduce her so you all get a little bit of a sense about her before we launch right in to all of our stuff. We are delighted to welcome Laura Tempest Zakroff, who is a professional artist, author, dancer, designer and modern traditional witch. She is the author of the best selling books, "Weave the Liminal" and "Sigil Witchery," as well as "The Witch's Cauldron" and the co-author of "The Witch's Altar." Laura blogs for Patheos and Witches and Pagans and she contributes to "The Witches' Almanac" and the edited the new "Aradia: The Witches' Handbook to Magickal Resistance." Her first Oracle Deck, "The Liminal Spirits Oracle" will be available in Spring 2020. And if you've been on any of the witchcraft Facebook groups lately, you probably seen her blogs, which had been dedicated to sigils to use during the pandemic. Honestly, her blog, The Modern Traditional Witch is really required reading for anyone who's practicing witchcraft these days and I highly also recommend her book "Sigil Witchery." So, Tempes, welcome to our show. We're delighted to have you. Thanks for coming in on a weeknight and it's so late where you are.Tempest 02:24Oh, thank you. I'm so glad to be here. It's um, you know, we're kind of working on a different thing outside of space and time, but guess that's very Magickal in its own way. So anyway, so it's like, well, what is time? What day is it? Who knows?Courtney 02:38What day is it? I think it's lunch. I like the meme which is a cup of coffee passing a torch to a glass of wine, which is I think where most of us are right now. Unless you're Kanani then it's vodka in your 7-up.Kanani 02:56Are you like looking through my computer somehow at right now cuz that's just not okay.Courtney 03:01No, this is just for the thing that since we started doing these bonus episodes you just show up with a lot of seven up and vodka and just continue to get bombed during the entire thing. Kanani 03:09You know what's funny is I pretty much drink like once a week and it just happens to be on podcast recording nights.Courtney 03:19Okay, Tempest. So, we're gonna ask you the question we asked all of our all of our new guests. How did you know that you were a witch?Tempest 03:29Oh, geez. Mmm hmm. That's always like that in the battle for the short origin story. I just knew that, you know, as a very young child that I saw the world differently than a lot of other folks and I saw there were connections and threads and that your focus, your will, and your sense of myth can have an impact on the world around you. So I think I being an artist, I tapped into that very early in it, but it wasn't until my mid teens is when I discovered that there was actually a name for this thing. It's called witchcraft and actually exists in the world. And that was a very happy day. So. Ta da! Courtney 04:18And we're all better for it.Tempest 04:21Yay!Courtney 04:23So um, going to do our check in. How are things going for each of us? (Silence) The awkward silence speaks for itself.Hilary 04:36Awkward silence. I've actually, I don't know, I've been sleeping very poorly the last couple of days. And so I feel pretty, pretty tired. I feel like I'm doing okay. There's like, as there has been since the beginning of all this insanity, there's been a lot of ups and downs. I have some friends that are pretty sick right now. So y they're dealing with fighting off this virus and so I've been keeping them in my thoughts. But yeah, I mean, I think I feel like I'm doing okay. I spent some time tending to my altar, which I think felt really good. I tend to not self care or like, focus on me when there's crisis. I'm like, who needs help? Who needs help? So, so that felt really good. Courtney 05:26We got some helpful pings from some of our listeners, when we put the call out at the last episode that says, 'Please, please pester us to sit at our altars because none of us are doing it.' And they did. And it was helpful. I literally would find myself getting up and walking away from the computer saying, 'Yes, yes, thank you listener, I'm gonna go sit at my altar for a good 10 minutes and cry for a while and then move back into life.' Yeah, but it has been a very heavy few days, I think. Something that the three of us were talking about earlier today, the mother of a good mutual friend passed away from this awful virus. And as soon as I got that news, I heard that the mother of another friend was in the hospital for this and it just feels like the Facebook timelines are full of a lot of death right now. Same thing with Twitter, people are announcing left and right that someone that they've known has passed away and it's just really heavy. I actually had a sound healing session today, which was really, really helpful. If you're not familiar with sound healing, it's when somebody using voice and bells and bowls just to try to move grief and energy through the body. This stuff really does get locked up in our muscles. And it can stay with us for a long time. And so I've been weeping on and off through the afternoon. It might happen on the show tonight. And if it does, that's just normal. It's part of the process. Kanani, you hanging in there?Kanani 07:00Um, kind of like I said last time, I feel like I went into this kind of backwards where I was just kind of a zombie for the first few weeks and just wasn't really doing well. And I so feel the comment of 'what is time?' because I got paid on Friday, like I usually would with my direct deposit. And for whatever reason, my first thought was, 'Oh, no, this was my last check. They messed up. I'm not supposed to be laid off yet.' And I started panicking at 630 in the morning, and I woke up my husband and I'm like, starting to send my supervisor, an email going, 'Hey, I just got money and I shouldn't have gotten money.' And my husband looked at me and he's like, 'Weren't you supposed to be paid today?' I'm like, 'Oh, yeah.' Like I just, I mean, and I was like, in a tizzy like I had an email ready. I was about to send it. I was trying to figure out something before I sent it. And I mean, my days are like, still completely messed up. But time just is kind of irrelevant right now. But earlier when this was happening, we had a lot of really, really heavy family stuff that people would you know, say, you know, 'how are you doing?' And I'm like, honestly like the COVID stuff is the least of my worries right now. Like we had so much other heavy important stuff going on that that was actually less stressful, what we were doing having to stay home and so now that a lot of that has resolved itself in luckily positive ways. Now I'm kind of just dealing with that which doesn't seem so bad. So I'm doing much better than I had been. I had a very surreal moment today where my kids' school is officially, they're still doing the schooling remotely, but as far as going back to school, it's officially closed for the year. And so I had to drive out to the school to pick up their stuff because the school was getting rid of, you know, giving back to the children's personal effects. And it was the, I mean, this is a drive I've made literally hundreds of times twice a day, to go back and forth to the school and everything about it felt weird and surreal, because one, I haven't made that drive in a long time. And two, when I made that drive, there was no traffic. And usually I'm in bumper to bumper traffic the whole way trying to get there and back. And there's only certain ways I can go because of traffic. And so everything about it has just been very, it's all very surreal. And I'm not even really at the point where it's upsetting. It just it's not quite....it just kind of feels like it's just surreal. It doesn't feel like I'm really, you know, this can't, I can't even explain it. Other than that. It's just it's not connecting. And like I said, we had some other stuff that luckily has resolved. So now it's kind of settling in and I feel like I've succumbed to my current reality for however long it lasts and trying to find little moments of, you know, peace and contentment where I can and posting lots and lots of memes. That's kind of what I do.Courtney 10:23I think that everything that's happening outside of this, that doesn't have anything to do with this, like your family issues, like some of the other challenges that my husband and I have had. It always feels more intense. Perhaps it's because we can only sit in here and think about it, that we can say "let's just go out for a night." There's this great arcade here in our hometown and when my husband and I are just done with thinking about whatever challenge we're facing, we used to be able just to go to the arcade, like teenagers, and spend all of our quarters that we keep in a jar by the kitchen counter, and not think about any of that stuff for a while and we don't have those outlets. Yeah, you can take your walks and those sorts of things. There's only so many places you can go. Right? So, and I think that that's at least exacerbating some of the the challenges that we're having. Now, Tempest, you moved to New England, I think, just before this stuff hit Seattle. Is that right?Tempest 11:26Actually we've been in this house 11 months today.Courtney 11:29Oh, wow, that happened fast.Tempest 11:30Yeah, I know. It was like holy...Actually, wait, can I curse? (laughs) It's just kind of amazing that it's almost been a year. But you know, it doesn't feel like we've been gone that long. And also we came out to visit in was it November? We were out there for a bit. So it doesn't, it really, like time has moved so strangely in this past year. And of course we have, you know, a huge network of friends and family who are all you know, still In Seattle, so we've been really monitoring that very closely you know it's like it's almost being you know just like one step behind like whoever's like watching it up front. Like it's just a little ripple effect and so that's that's been pretty intense. But on the other side is Reno, Rhode Island is actually one of the best responses, how we've been handling it, and apparently we're also now forming coalition with the Northeast. And as you guys are forming one with California and Washington.Courtney 12:35Cascadia for the win, baby! Tempest 12:37I was feeling a little sad earlier, I was like "I wanted to be part of Cascadia and then to be absorbed by Canada!" But you know we can still do that on this side...Kanani 12:48I want to be absorbed by Canada! Do we get a vote for that?Courtney 12:50I think that California is going to try and absorb us first. Kanani 12:55I don't think Canada wants us. If Canada has been paying attention at all, they're gonna be like "No....."Courtney 13:00Maybe they'll feel sorry for us. They'll say "We'll take the western states. The rest of y'all can just stay."Kanani 13:05I'll work whatever angle we got.Tempest 13:08We might have the whole maple syrup thing going for us over here. You know, we have a lot of maple trees and they they're like, "well, this will be good." And we also have a lot of breweries and then so we've got really prime, like Canada, just come down. You know, stop at New York or Connecticut. That's fine.Courtney 13:26"Just look! We're little Rhode Island! We don't take up much room, you can tuck us in the backseat. Nobody will notice."Tempest 13:32You won't even know! You drive through it in 45 minutes. You won't even know you're there. It's fine.Courtney 13:36Yeah, you don't even notice when you drive through Rhode Island. It's very strange.Tempest 13:40No, well, of course, when you come over the border and it says "Welcome to Wyoming." That's like, why? Who thought that was a good idea? It was actually Wyoming, Rhode Island.Courtney 13:49You know, it's funny, when I lived in Connecticut, I used to go to this tiny town in Rhode Island whose name I don't even remember. We would go to this diner that basically was like in the woods, and my friend and I would go to the grave of this woman named Mercy Brown. I think she had been killed for being a witch. Tempest, are you familiar with the story? Tempest 14:13She's actually one of the three vampires that we have in Rhode Island.Courtney 14:16Oh, that's right, because she was a vampire. And they, they like exhumed her body after her death. And they because they buried her in the winter, there was still blood in her heart. And then I guess they like, you know, they did some horrible things to her corpse after that, because they thought that she was a vampire. Do you remember that story? Tempest 14:34So her and then like, you know, the other one was Sarah Tillinghast, can't remember the third one right now. But they all died of consumption, you know tuberculosis, and so that definitely, like helped coagulate different things. And I think they were also burying them with like, led coffins at that time or something really odd that also preserved the body in strange ways. And so yeah, the rest of her family or everyone close to her also died, which kind of happens with tuberculosis, so when they found like the body perfectly preserved and yeah, I think they decapitated her and took out the head and then put her back and you know did some folkloric spellcraft kind of things and and then everything was fine until everyone got into vampires again and then they had to remove the headstone because people were coming in desecrating it and trying to do things. So I think she's still buried in the same Exeter cemetery...Courtney 15:30Yes, it was Exeter. right. Tempest 15:32Yeah. But her stone is no longer...the same thing with Lovecraft. His body is not where his headstone is. Because people.Courtney 15:46Oh man...Kanani 15:47Because People.Courtney 15:51The story of America: Because People.Kanani 15:56I want that tattooed on my assTempest 16:05So Tempest, how are you and your partner weathering this quarantine time? I am doing all right, because I'm used to working from home and making art and doing whatever I'm doing and going out on the road and teaching and performing and doing workshops and festivals that's like, that's part of the thing that's always...I'm very excited to come home and nest where Nathaniel is a performer, a musician, and as much as he thinks he's an introvert, he's really an extrovert. Yeah, so it's kind of harder to deal with that. And also knowing that, you know, most of his family's all on the west coast. So that's a lot of concern. You just can't do anything. You know, we had plans to go out to see family and it's like, well, we can see you on zoom and talk to you on the phone. But can't help if anything happens. You know, my parents are six hours away in New Jersey, but still, it still feels close now even if we can't go down there.Courtney 17:10So you could drive there before...you could leave at breakfast and get there by lunch if you drove quickly. Tempest 17:15Yes. And, you know, though, really cutting through New York, New Jersey, New Jersey's definitely far worse. And unfortunately, where my parents live, it's, you know, it's a resort area. They live there full time year round, but all the folks from New York and Pennsylvania were like, 'Oh, we have to go to our shore houses to escape' and so they've been bringing the virus down to these places that are skeleton crew basically for nine months out of the year, because it's not the summer season. So you know, all the restaurants are closed. The hospitals are on the basic staff. There's like no resources and these people are coming down. So it's just kind of making a bad situation worse.Courtney 17:56Oh, God, and that's happening all over the world too. It certainly happened here. Some friends of mine in Ireland were complaining about that--people running to their vacation homes and causing problems for the locals. Again, people. Because People. Kanani 18:11My mom actually lives at the beach here. And she actually mentioned that, I want to say it was either yesterday or today. And I hadn't thought of that. Because I mean, they're just going absolutely stir crazy, because they can't even walk on the beach. Like that's something they do every day. And they themselves aren't even allowed to go walk on the beach. And so, you know, they kept thinking, 'I can't wait for this to be over. I can't wait to for this to be over.' But then she said it just kind of occurred to her that the second that they lift the stay-at-home restrictions, that is exactly where everyone and their cousin are going to go is to the beach, and they're just going to be bombarded with 10s of thousands of non-locals and it's just gonna be a nightmare because they don't have you know, they have a tiny hospital with you know, a handful of beds and very little medical resources. And so she's actually now kind of, I think grateful that everything's closed and isn't quite as antsy for it to reopen because she realizes when it reopens, it's, it's going to be a shit show. Courtney 19:15I think we also have to prepare ourselves that this is probably going to go in waves. And we're quarantining now and you know, some of the summer we may get to go to the beach and annoy Kanani's mom, and then it will be that things get closed up again... Kanani 19:34I fear for all those people, by the way. I fear nothing, but I fear my mother. I would not step to my mother for all the money in the world. That would not happen.Courtney 19:50Well, I have a light hearted story that has come from all of this. Yes. So in the middle of all this chaos, my husband and I are actually still trying to get some repairs done on our house. And so we have had contractors come over, you know, social distance, don't hand shake hands, lots of room and we had some insulation removed from what used to be the attic and is now the upstairs and they found this box. Now I need to go back a little bit and explain something. When I was a little girl, I was one of those kids that was always looking for a secret passageway in their house, or would think that I would find an old journal and one of the closets or in the attic, or an old box of letters. Now, I grew up in the suburbs, and my house was built in 1985 or 86. So there was no secret passageway in our suburban house in Beaverton, OR. I wanted it so badly and yeah, it never happened. My parents kept trying to break it to me that they just didn't make those in houses in the 80s. Or most people didn't leave old journals. If they did, it was one that I wrote and forgot about left somewhere. But then, this was like a movie, this guy said, "Do you want this box" and I opened it up and it is all of these old letters that are postmarked from the 1930s. And I'm like, "OH MY GOD!!!" and I'm freaking out, I run downstairs and I start reading them immediately. And they were all from teenage girls writing to this boy who was himself a teenager at the time. And he had started up correspondences with all of these different girls and all over different towns in Oregon.Kanani 21:33For all our listeners who don't think that Courtney really was that dorky as a kid, from personal experience, she absolutely was that dorky.Courtney 21:43You know what? Do not insult our listeners because let me tell you, I had like hundreds of people on Instagram and Facebook all say the same thing that they had always been looking for a secret passageway in their suburban house and never found one. Tempest, did you look for a secret passageway in your house when you were growing up?Tempest 21:59Of course and everyone that you know we like would visit, I'm like "there's gotta be a little tiny door that has to go somewhere."Courtney 22:09See? See? It wasn't just me. You just totally lacked imagination. It's your problem, not mine.Kanani 22:16Wait, you're saying there was a problem with the fact that all my stuffed animals were named Teddy and Bear?Courtney 22:22Yes, yes, there's something wrong with you. You are clearly repressed.Kanani 22:26Clearly.Courtney 22:28Yes, you are repressed, you need lots of therapy for lots of reasons.Kanani 22:36Hence the vodka and 7-up.Courtney 22:39So anyway, I read through all these letters. They were hilarious. My favorite one came from a girl named Velma. She wrote him several letters, and they all said the same thing that she was having a good time, but she really missed him. She hoped she could see him again soon. And then she started saying that her association with him was starting to ruin her relationship in their little town. Because she was spending the night at his family's house. Now, it didn't sound like they were doing anything that wasn't permissible by his family. Because she would say "Your family's so nice to me. I really appreciated that they let me stay" because she lived kind of far away so it was probably hard for her to get home. Not everybody had cars back then. But then she'd go home and her parents would say things to her, like, "you know, you're really getting a bad name for yourself" and all these things. But she said, you know, she was really into this guy whose name was Francis and Francis was worth the bad reputation. Well, then she started writing, asking him why he wasn't writing her back and was saying, "hey, if you moved on, just kind of let me know. I just want to know where things are at." And then she wrote this letter where she was really, really angry. She was so angry, she was speaking in the third person about herself. So she was saying things like, "well, you don't have to worry about Velma hanging around and raining on your parade anymore. You clearly are not interested in me because you invited me out after you hadn't responded to my letters, and then you ditched me and you ran off with your cousins and I had to find my own way home. Well, I figured that we were over but then you came to that dance to spy on me with a new fella because I'd met someone else. Well, let me tell you, Francis, Velma does not stand for this!" She was so mad. And I'm sitting here going, "Whoa ho ho...Velma!" But I actually found this man's daughter. She lives about half an hour from me. And so I was able to return these letters to her. So that was a really, really wonderful thing that has happened in the midst of all this, this awfulness. And Kanami, what are we supposed to be watching on TV right now? You said you had a new show you were into.Kanani 24:39So my new show has absolutely nothing to do with witchcraft. I have no idea why I started binge watching it. Up until the other day, I had no idea it even existed. It is called "Pool kings." And it is people that go in and, people who have...cuz always when they do these home improvement shows, right, these people have obscene amounts of money that they're throwing at this. Courtney 25:04And they're like, 'Oh, what do we do for a living? Like, I just sell stamps on Etsy two days a week' and they are like, you know, $2 million homes.Kanani 25:12Exactly, exactly. So they put in these huge resort type swimming pools in the backs of people's houses. And I've already watched like 12 or 15 episodes, it's really ridiculous. And I'm completely obsessed. Like, as soon as I woke up this morning, the first thing I did is I went out in the living room and I started finding more episodes On Demand. Because I just, I dream about....I've never, I don't want to own a pool. I still don't want to own a pool. But you just think in your head, like, "Oh, I would do this with mine..." and "do this with mine." And they have, my favorite are the ones that have the swim up barstools. We're on the other side and I'm like a bar and then inside you swim up and you sit on the barstool? And yeah. Those make me horny. Courtney 26:03Is that your porn? That's sad. Kanani 26:06Totally my porn! Watching Home Improvement shows and landscaping shows of landscapes and homes I could never have. That's my porn.Courtney 26:14Oh my god. Well it explains it because your stuffed animals were named Teddy and Bear and your porn is watching pools getting built. Kanani 26:22Exactly. Courtney 26:23Okay. All right. Well, did you know that there's a new episode of Tiger King? Like an addendum that you could watch? Kanani 26:31Is it out yet? Courtney 26:33Yes, it's out. It's not a 'where are they that now?' It's a 'What did you guys think of the series?' And of course, they're all like, 'Oh, I hated it. This was not true to life at all. It's not true to life life at all.' Then the guy who was a lawyer, and the trans man who lost his arm to the tiger, they're both like, "yeah, that was all true." All right. All right, Hilary. So we are dedicating 10% of our Etsy sales to a very good cause this month that Hilary recommended. Hilary, tell everyone all about it!Hilary 27:03So we've mentioned this organization very briefly before when we listed a number of organizations, but organization is called The Pride Foundation. I'll read you a little bit about what they do generally and then what they are doing now. So "Our work is grounded in a simple yet revolutionary belief: every person should be able to live safely, openly and genuinely in all the places we call home. In the midst of this of the COVID crisis, started a COVID relief fund that is providing relief specifically towards marginalized communities, the LGBTQ community, people of color, low income people, those that are houseless, women that are in a domestic violence situation, so they really are focusing on the most vulnerable people that that are out there right now experiencing this crisis. And so I think the work that they're doing and then both both the work they are doing now and the work that they have done and another pandemic crisis is just really important, valuable, incredible work. So yeah, we're going to be donating 10% of our Etsy sales to the Pride Foundation.Courtney 28:16But you also said you had a Witch shop recommendation you wanted to recommend,Hilary 28:20I do! So one of our listeners, this is a group of women that normally actually vend through festivals and at live events. So in the midst of this crisis, you know, obviously, like many people, they're struggling to get through this, but also they're struggling at an immediate loss of income in going into what would be, you know, event season, and so they have an Instagram page, they have their prices listed on Instagram, you can reach out to them directly. And they have all sorts of really neat art and crystals and cool crafts and their shop is called Avalon Tangles.Courtney 29:05I love that name! I love the name. Hilary 29:07Isn't it so good? And they say "we are all witches who have been hanging out together for a year and a half." So they have a number of products listed on their shop. So go check them out. And yeah, they're really nice people.Courtney 29:22Speaking of things to check out, we've got to check out Tempest's sigil work. So Tempest, you have really contributed a lot to magical culture in the last couple of years with your 'how to make a sigil,' I know I've attended your sigil classes and they're not only informative, they're also very funny. And I have found that sigils are incredibly important to making effective spells happen. So for someone who's not familiar with a sigil, can you explain what a sigil is?Tempest 29:54Yes! So the most basic way to look at a sigil is a sigil is any mark that has been drawn, etched, painted, licked, you know, applied in some way that is believed to have magical properties. And so that opens up to a whole wide array of symbols and mark making, as long as it's tied into that concept of it's being used for Magic, it's being used for for spellcraft. So many different methods can fall underneath that. And which is kind of the awesome thing because there's so many different ways to do it.Kanani 30:31I have to say that I'm particularly excited to have you on this week because of the fact that your sigil is on my altar right now. And I actually printed out a copy of the sigil and I actually carved it into the candle and I have the candle with it carved in it on top of the paper that has this sigil printed on it.Courtney 30:57So, I have a question. You said 'Tempest's Sigil,' is that one that Tempest created? Or did you make a sigil of Tempest because your fangirldom has reached gross proportions and you're trying to summon her into your life? Kanani 31:09Why would you do that? Why would you give me ideas like that? Courtney 31:12Because I'm actually legitimately asking you because the latter is kind of creepy, but at the former, is it a sigil that Tempest actually drew? Kanani 31:20Yes. Courtney 31:21Okay. Do you want to explain what that is? Because you just said Tempest Sigil, which leaves us all to be worried about Tempest.Kanani 31:27Well, that's fair. Let me see if there was it was the one that we had posted on Facebook.Courtney 31:35This is the one about COVID-19 right? Kanani 31:37Yes. Tempest 31:38The immunity booster sigil? Kanani 31:40Yes.Tempest 31:42All right. Yeah, cuz there's been five actually, I believe. Now, as of today.Kanani 31:48I want to say it was the "Make Well?"Tempest 31:53The immunity booster, which was the first one when this all started that I created. And then we've had four different sigil witchery classes where I've taken the online sigil that we created, and put them out there and so that was a sigil for managing panic. There was the Needs Met sigil... Kanani 32:14That's the one. Needs Met. Tempest 32:16That's a good one.Kanani 32:17That was the one, the 'Needs Met.' And we'll re-post a link for that. And kind of when I was still in my dark point, and it was funny becauseCourtney 32:27Still at your dark point? You live in darkness.Kanani 32:30Well, I'm dead inside, but I don't necessarily live in darkness. But when I was still like really not doing well and we'd done a couple of the podcasts and I'm like, I knew in my head I'm like, "I know I need to reach out, I know I need to bring magic in. I know I need to..." and I don't know what it was, but I saw the Needs Met sigil online and I'm like, "That. That's what I need." And I literally I printed it out, I grabbed a candle I carved it into the candle and then I've had my altar going with that ever since. And it is not long after that, that some of the family stuff started resolving itself and I did start kind of coming out of my, my zombie-like state so I, I'm super impressed with the thoughtfulness of it, as well as the impact that it really does have both on the magical workings but also how it helps you to focus your energy.Tempest 33:26They're really handy in the sense that a sigil is a condensed spell like you don't need a lot to make it happen. And particularly the approach that I have really focuses in on considering all of those elements that you need, like there you know, as I mentioned, there many different methods to do it. And most people are familiar with the method that...one of the methods that came down from Austin Osman Spare, which is the write the sentence down then you cut out you know, certain letters and then combine them and do other sort of sort of tasks, set it on fire, masturbate, whatever. Everybody has their own approach. But like a single sentence isn't enough to really brainstorm, like to really visualize like, and to take it into regular, like sympathetic magic. Imagine that someone says, Oh, I need a new job. So I'm going to burn a green candle. Well, what do you want out of that job? You know, it's like, sure, you could burn a green candle and get a job, but is it going to be the right job? And is it going to happen in the timeframe that you need, versus something that you really thought about that you visualize that you know how much money you want to make that you want to have changes happen in your life that you you know, have room for opportunity and all of those different things. It's like that's the next level of spellcraft. That's where to take your magic is, is to think about this on deeper levels, rather than just being there at the surface and kind of doing "Magical triage" as I like to call it.Courtney 34:55Oooh, I love that phrase. Magical triage. Fantastic.Tempest 35:00It's one of the things I've taken up the last couple years. Like, come on, people stopped doing magical triage. I mean, okay, it's important, but it shouldn't be the only way you're approaching all of your magic because it's exhausting. Like, consider what we're doing right now. This is exhausting, in a sense of a society like having to be on hold and worrying about things, right? Instead of thinking about the future, like having no feeling like there's no way that you can make plans for the future right now. That's exhausting. So, yeah.Courtney 35:30So kanani said that she carved that that needs met signal into a candle. What are some other ways that somebody could utilize a sigil?Tempest 35:44There are many different ways. So it depends on what you want to do with the sigil. And should we should we talk about the process first?Courtney 35:53Yeah, let's talk about the process of the sigil.Tempest 35:55Okay, yeah, that will illuminate the whole process. So the the method that I have has four parts, and only three of them are necessary. So the first part is determining what is it that you'd like to accomplish? What's your goal? What's your problem? You know, like, whatever it is like your first thing that you do in any type of spell, you should have a reason for why you're doing it. And then the second part is that brainstorming and to look at deeper at the situation, what does it look like, how do you visualize this. And then the third step is to design it, which is taking those items that you brainstormed and assigning symbol shapes, marks, colors, whatever it is to that, and combining into that sigil. And at the end of Step three, you have a finished sigil. Your brain is going to recognize it as the thing that says, 'Alright, we've written a computer program, we've pressed Enter, and you can close your book, you can fold up that piece of paper and never look at it again. And it will have begun the process. And you know, for people like 'but how do you charge it?' like, you just drew the thing. You just went through the process. You are the source of that energy. Courtney 37:03So like the creation of the sigil is itself raising the energy for the sigil?Tempest 37:08Bingo. That's the thing, right? Like that's part of the magic. You just created something out of nothing. How is that not powerful in itself? It always blows my mind when people just be 'what do I do with it?' But because we are human beings and we love the stuff, we love things, we know we love our crystals and oils and our herbs and you know all these different accoutrements. Step four is to apply and/or acknowledge it because we'd love that sense of ritual or pattern or some of us need, especially another layer of visualization and that's where carving it on the candle and you see it in that color of the candle in the light of that candle inspires you. Or if you're doing a protection spell, maybe you're doing something where you carve into a bar of soap and you wash yourself daily with that sigil, or you're anointing it on your body with an oil that is connected to the meaning and the outcome of that sigil. You can, you know, you could do plants, you know, where you either take a little potted plant, you know, with the sigil on it, say like for a memory, you might do a memory sigil. But you might also combine it with rosemary or maybe a gingko tree. So you have that plant energy connected to the sigil. You could bake it into cookies or a pie, stir into your coffee or your tea. You can do it out of smoke, you can do it out of salt water if you're blessing a house, you know, so it really depends on what is that next step. And I think it's really important that people realize like, you don't have to destroy the sigil like that we can go like, we don't spend hours talking about all the misconceptions out there. So it won't hold us in, read it in there. But the the idea is that you are continuing the subconscious and the visualization process and you're also doing what is needed to help you continue building on that idea, like, if you're doing the job thing, right, you're looking for a new job, you might put that sigil somewhere, like hit it on your resume, but you still need to make the resume. Like, you still need to put that out into the world. So it's those mundane physical things that we do that just help it become more of our life and it feels like it's been woven into the pattern just a little bit more strongly. But I'm sure you all have had the experience of the timer like, 'Oh, I'm gonna do a spell for this!' and before you've even gotten the candle out or anything else, like you've already got the result. Like that's how powerful your mind is, that you can already start influencing the world around you. But we still do like the things like like say, if I'm bringing out candles and stuff, I'm bringing out the big guns, because it just need that extra layer to just see it in front of me, experience it, do the ritual, do the dance, sing the song whatever is needed. It can have that one more layer of power for you.Courtney 40:01So how might a sigil be particularly helpful to someone right now because clearly, you've got some great sigils people can use during this pandemic era. But why sigils and how are sigils going to help us get through this time?Tempest 40:17They're very simple. They don't require any additional things like you just need to have a ballpoint pen or you know, a marker that you you found in the backseat of your car, you know, it's like a crayon, right? You don't need a super high tech thing. You don't need lots of tools, right? You just need either some sort of surface, gas receipt, you know, whatever you need, you can just draw it on there. You can draw with your finger in the dirt. It doesn't require a lot of skill. It doesn't require a lot of preparation. And you know, needing to know some arcane tradition. You just need to connect with the sigil and the ones that have been releasing are either the ones I have personally created or creating collectively with the workshops. Those are what I call shared magic sigils in the sense that once they're released out into the world, you know, they're for people to use, explain everything that goes into them so people can see the work board and how they were created. They can see the words and the intent, and then they can also see how to use it. So it gives them a deeper investment in the process, rather than something random that you found on Tumblr. Like I really want people to be able to read about it and you know, find out the how and the why, which to me is at the root of witchcraft, like, you just don't accept the thing. Like someone hands you a spell and they're like, okay, I'll just do this. It's like, Oh, what is this about? How does it work? How do I personally connect with it? That makes you a better magical practitioner to do that. And it's just practicing, and the more you do it, the easier it becomes. So with people not being able to go outside, not being able to go to festivals, you know all these different things, just being able to tap into the blog, get everything that you need, and then MacGyver your way around it because you're like, 'oh look a tea light!' Boom, I've got that. 'oh, look a marker, I can do that here.' You know, 'I got a sharpie, I can do this on my candle, I can do this on my body. I can do this on my front door.' And whatever it is that you have around you, which is another important aspect of witchcraft is like use what you have. It will work because you are the source of the power.Kanani 42:32I think one of the reasons it was so powerful for me was particularly at that moment, I knew that I had no control over all of the things that were going on. And that's a horrible feeling. To feel powerless, to feel like you have no control and there's nothing you can do and it made me feel like was doing something. And every time I saw that candle lit and every time I saw that sigil It was like a reminder to myself of 'you are not powerless, you're doing something. Look, look at that energy you're putting out into the world.' And it just gave me a sense of calm and peace and that I was not powerless and to watch the candle burn and just to see it and just to constantly see the sigil was such a powerful reminder to me that I really, it helped me. It was the moment when I started kind of coming out of my funk and starting to deal and accept and you know, figure out what now and so the visualization is incredibly powerful.Tempest 43:51That makes me so happy to hear. I love when people connect to it. And that's the thing is it is that impact. I know this is true for me. And then you might be true for you you all as well is the you know, it's like when you're feeling a mess, and like you can do something magical but sometimes you're like, 'Oh, let me just clean things first.' Like Yeah, like you just you physically do something to your environment that like even if it's just dusting or wiping down like the toilet, whatever, you're just like I've made a small impact on the world and that gives you that sense of like that small step and then you can continue to amp it up you know, magically as well it's like it's so mundane and we don't we often don't realize that like we sort of get so sucked up into our heads and the sense of like that we are rudderless, right like there's no oars, I'm just here adrift. And then someone hands you this or that like, I could do this. I could do this. And then the next step and it gets easier and things move faster and faster from there.Kanani 44:55Oh no. I love the the blog where I found it. That's what we'll post on our website. But I remember I was reading it and how you came up with it and the thoughts behind it. And there was like a black and white version, there was a colored version and you're, you know, you said you can you know, use whichever one speaks to you and I kind of first was like, well do the black and white and I'm like, No, I just the color looks so powerful and it's just those little steps of making choices and kind of taking your your power back and and and getting involved in something and just kind of getting your hands in it. And then like I said, I decided it wasn't enough just to put the candle on it. I decided I needed to carve it into the candle and you know, it just gets your your magical juices flowing. And it just it helps bring out a focus that sometimes it's like you just you need something to get that out.Courtney 45:46Yeah, it's a easy, tangible action to remind yourself you have agency in a time when none of us really have a lot of power and we can control it. Yeah, so this actually brings us to a couple of questions that I think that sigil witchery might actually assist both of them in trying to navigate these questions. So the first one came and said, I've done this is a relatively new witch, who said, "I've done a lot of research, read what feels like a million books, tried a few spells, but I'm a very analytical person. So I'm having a very hard time letting go and realizing that magic is not just black and white." And what she meant by that is like cut and dry, like I did this spell and the outcome is exactly as I imagined it. "I feel like that's not necessarily how this works. But that's still how I imagined it." So I had some thoughts about what could be helpful for this, which would be good to get Tempest's perspective as well.Tempest 46:50So I think what it comes down to is we we have such a fictional approach to magic because of what society tells us. You know, Bipiddy, Boppity Boo. There it is, right? You know, like God, I wish you could just do the magic wand thing. And sometimes it works, but rarely rarely does it work that way. But we do have also thousands of years of folklore that tell us that magic follows the path of least resistance, which means that we do need to do the work, that we need to consider the multiple angles and the outcomes. And the only way to figure that out though, is through experience, which means you're going to screw some things up and go, Oh, wait, I was really too specific. Or I wasn't specific enough. And it's about finding a balance point in what it is. So it's like, 'Oh, yeah, I want to draw love to me.' Well, what kind of love do you want to draw to you? You know, and if you're like, 'I want this person in my life!' and then you get them in your life and you're like, 'Crap, now I have to get rid of them because they're a complete asshole.' It's like the more you learn, the more you live and the more you do different kinds of spells. It's, it's just a wonderful experimental as well as experiential path.Courtney 48:12And that's what I was told them as well is that analytical people make wonderful witches. It's like, you know, treat it as though it's a science experiment, do your spell and record the results, and some of the results may not be what you expected. So I said don't try to not be an analytical person. Celebrate that and analytical witches make excellent witches, their spell casting ends up being very precise, as opposed to those of us that a little more wishy washy...me. Like I'm raising my hand over here.Kanani 48:41That is absolutely something that I struggled with for a really long time. I am incredibly analytical when it comes to this stuff. And so the fact that there wasn't kind of a, 'if you just do XYZ, then this is what's going to happen.' The whole concept of you know, using a different color candle or using a different scent because you just don't have that one.' It was like 'what? what do you mean? I thought it had to be this way.' And in like what Tempest said, the only thing that got me out of that was things happening from things I did that were just undeniable and realizing, oh, this does work. So it was just purely experience. It wasn't until I had enough experience of trying things and and that realizing later that the outcomes had come to fruition or I had gotten the answers to my questions, even if maybe not exactly and how I had thought of them. That's what ultimately kind of tipped the scale for me and got me to be kind of fully embrace the lifestyle and embrace it as my life and who I am and kind of stopped questioning it because from for the longest time, that's all I did was question it, but eventually kind of realized, well, you know, here's 20 examples that show that this was fact and you just kind of have to...that experience takes over the the worry or the concern of you know, Is this real? Is it not real? Is it working? Is it not working?Courtney 50:22So, our second question, um, this person had been working with The Morrigan, who I believe is someone Tempest has invoked as well I know that you've done some beautiful artwork on The Morrigan. So here's what she said. She said she had been invoking The Morrigan into her home and then she went to get a reading: "After an extremely frightening but accurate reading I had today I'm feeling really confused, but mainly concerned with The Morrigan's new intense presence in my life. Would you ever recommend someone respectfully declining her calling? Because long story short, the psychic I went to was 100% accurate and everything she told me, but there was nothing she was more adamant about than the fact that I was currently being haunted by a powerful female spirit who was trying to scare me, who did not want the best for me, was easily aggravated and angry. And this psychic could even know that she had thrown things in my house and was constantly looming over me in an unsettling way. After I told her I had recently had a ton of psychic experiences that led me to start learning about witchcraft. The psychic urged me to stop, saying that I was attracting darkness, bad spirits, etc. Now this lady looked to be about 100 years old and was openly a devout Christian. So if it wasn't for the fact that everything she said was so creepily accurate, I would just mark her warnings up to her own personal religious bias the moment she heard me say the word witchcraft, but she was so completely on point with everything that's been happening to me and the way The Morrigan has made me feel. Do you think she's right? Have you ever had Heard of an instance where her coming into your life is just bad. The psychic also urged me to stop practicing witchcraft in general, saying the love of my life would never support it, blah, blah, blah, which I don't feel my gut is right. But I do feel like she is right about the energy The Morrigan has brought into my life. I guess I'm just really freaked out now about the craft, about this particular deity who has been haunting me. Is it true that just practicing witchcraft invited evil? I guess I'm just looking for some reassurance from someone who actually understands what witchcraft really is, and who the Morrigan is. So I'm not inviting a bunch of darkness and evil into my life just by studying the craft." There's a lot there. I feel like we've all had that experience with a really accurate psychic who was also religiously biased but Tempest, what do you think?Tempest 52:48Oh, God, this actually makes me really angry. I wanna like go and, not that I would advocate violence, but kind of go and you know, shake the psychic. One thing to think about is that someone who's a psychic or a reader can be really good about predicting patterns, and especially as on the other side of the querent, we are course are very, very susceptible to filling in the blanks that aren't there. And so that it definitely increases the accuracy of what we feel is going on, which makes them feel like well, the whole message must be correct. But that's, you know, a medium is a medium. It's not a direct phone line to everything. And so I think it's very important to be cautious. And take some of that, like, Where was the true in your gut? The Morrigan, I should back up. Let's get to the evil thing. It's just, Oh, my God. I really wish these concepts of good and evil could just get doused, taken out. Because in witchcraft, it's about balance. It's about the light and shadow, it's about positive and negative is understanding perspective. You know, birth and death are part of the same thing. And so I don't believe in a concept of evil, anywhere within the craft in that kind of sense. And ingthe terms of The Morrigan, if this lady is having a lot of chaos in her life, I think it's the Morrigan is there to help her navigate through it, she's not the cause of it. So I would say can you lean in deeper into that path and explore it, and also consider what are the other influences what are the other chaotic things that are being brought into her life because I can't see it as being coming from her in a malicious way. Um, she can definitely kick your ass but (laughs), yeah, Um...hmm.Courtney 55:06Yeah, that's something that I think is universal when you're doing any sort of deity centered witchcraft is that they will come in, they'll look around at the way you've arranged your life and they'll say, 'You know what? We can do this better.' And they will shake it up and create a better flow for you. But the process, just like if you're rearranging furniture in your house, it's chaos in the moment. But then once it's settled down, you're like, 'Oh! Actually, this does flow much better. I feel I feel good about this.' And so that was one of the things that I had suggested. I also asked her, because I felt like she was going into her Saturn return, which is the time when lots of things get thrown up in the air and she said she probably was. So that's also something else for people to think about is if things are starting to get a little weird, check in with an astrologer and find out what's going on in your stars as well. But just like Tempest said, just because the psychic is accurate about some events that are happening in your life doesn't mean that they are correct about where the course of your life should be goingHilary 56:08Totally or that they don't bring their own bias into that conversation, too. Like, when I read what our listener wrote in, to me it was like, Yes, I believe that person was giving you some really accurate information. But then as soon as you said witchcraft, I think that person got uncomfortable, and then reactive from a place of bias. So, and that can happen. We're human beings, right, like, psychic or not, intuitive or not, you know, we have to also address our bias and our own personal bias in something like that. So, I agree. I think that, um, you know, I don't I, I don't think that bringing the Morrigan in is bringing in darkness. I definitely don't believe obviously, that practicing witchcraft is bringing in darkness. You know, I agree that that working with deities can shake stuff up sometimes. But, I do also think that, you know, it's okay to take the message that was for you and leave the message that was not for you. Tempest 57:15Yeah, that's a good point.Courtney 57:17That should be a disclaimer. Whenever you go in to see a psychic, take the message that's for you, leave the message that's not for you.Kanani 57:26It reminds me of something you mentioned when you were talking about your book, Courtney, and the Morrigan, of just because she's with you while you're in the dark place, doesn't mean she brought you to the dark place.Courtney 57:40Oh, that was so cute. You were listening to what I said! Kanani 57:44I listen sometimes!Courtney 57:49She didn't read the book, but she listened to what I have to say which is shocking because she was sitting there like staring at her nails the entire time Hilary was interviewing me.Hilary 57:56She totally was. She was like, "oh, look at my new manicure."Courtney 58:02She's a good friend, such a good friend. But she listened. Kanani 58:08I doHilary 58:09That once, right?Kanani 58:10But I thought that that was, I mean, I think that, you know, is very pertinent to what she's talking about. Just because she's with you right now while you're in a dark place does not mean that she's the cause of that dark place.Courtney 58:23Right? Like if you needed an ambulance, and the EMT people are taking care of you. They are not "Oh, well they came during this time of evil...." You were having a heart attack. They were saving your life. Yeah, so they came at a scary time. But aren't you glad they did? Yeah. So all right, we're nearing our end here. Tempest tell everybody where they can find you. I know you have your website which is . Are there other places or other things you have coming up online that people should look out for?Tempest 58:56Yes. So I have online workshops which if you should go to the website, I'm currently teaching on Thursdays and Saturdays. So you can join in on zoom for those and also author page on Facebook, on Instagram, @owlchemy.arts. And you can you know, if you get to the author site, they'll get you everywhere else. And also the other exciting thing is like any moment now the Oracle is going to drop.Courtney 59:26Yes!Hilary 59:27Yes!Courtney 59:29Wonderful!Tempest 59:31It will happen! Yay!Courtney 59:33Well, and we'll definitely be following Tempest's blog, The Modern Traditional Witch on Patheos. And if the sigil conversation has been helpful for you, order a copy of "Sigil Witchery." And this has been great. So Tempest, thank you so much for joining us today. Hilary 59:50Yes, thank you so much.Tempest 59:51Thank you. This was so much fun. Kanani 59:53And I want to just personally thank you for posting some of the stuff that you have online for, for people to use freely. And because like I said, it was very transformative for me at this time and it's so appreciated.Tempest 60:07You are so welcome. And I'm so glad to be able to put that out into the world for folks to use and tap into that power.Courtney 60:15So again, friends, there are resources out there magically inclined. So do check out Tempest's blog. We will have a link to it on our website. And yeah, in the meantime, everybody stay home. Stay safe. Stay well, and wash your filthy hands, witches! We're back next week with our regular episode, but we will continue to have bonus episodes so as long as we're in quarantine until Cascadia releases us from our slumber.(Exit Music) 60:45Join us on the first and third Mondays of the month for Magickal tools, tips, and stories about living as a Witch in today's world. Find us at for archived episodes or to ask your burning questions for us to answer in a future podcast. So mote it be! Kanani 61:05I'm gonna have to buy more vodka.Hilary 61:08I literally was like, well, so I have like weed cocktails. That's my cocktail cuz I don't drink alcohol. And I was like, oh my god I'm almost out of like the weed mixture of the cocktails that's like devastating and we better remedy that.Courtney 61:21And then I think this is the end of the podcast because it's devolved into vodka and weed.... ................
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