Thatwitchlife.com
TWL Episode 37Fri, 6/19 5:21PM ? 1:14:17SUMMARY KEYWORDSpeople, beverley, summer solstice, magick, community, coven, solstice, group, hear, celebrate, friends, mote, day, world, stones, stonehenge, ritual, witch, magic, feelSPEAKERSKanani, Intro music, Twitter Troll, Courtney Hoover, Hilary, Doctor Beverley, (Exit Music)Intro music 00:0020 years ago, three young friends realized they were witches. They scattered to different parts of the world, following magic and spirit. Now, they're back in their hometown to share what they've learned. Welcome to That Witch Life Podcast. Your home for living as a witch in today's world.Kanani 00:48Good morning witches. Welcome to another episode of That Witch Life Podcas. I am your host Kanani and I am joined by my fellow co hosts Courtney and Hilary.Courtney Hoover 01:00Hey, Hilary 01:01hello. Kanani 01:03And we are doing a summer solstice episode because the solstice is coming up soon. And so we thought that would be kind of a fun thing to discuss and talk about. One of the things that I wanted to kind of bring up that I thought was pretty cool. Well, let me let me pause by saying, I'm outside right now currently at a friend's house and they have a farm. So if you hear sheep going baaaaa in the background,Courtney Hoover 01:35it's not your husband.Kanani 01:36It's not my husband. It's not my children, they're not good at impressions. So you may you may inadvertently, every once in a while I hear sheep or if you hear water running, I promise it's a fountain and it's not me peeing I've yet to actually pee during a broadcast soCourtney Hoover 01:52which is actually shocking consider how much time we spend on this and how much time each of us need to collectively pee.Kanani 01:56I also said yet so but it didn't...that has not happened. So if you hear interesting background noise, it's because I am I'm literally on a farm right now.Courtney Hoover 02:07It's a nature of faith. It's a nature based faith. It's like It's like the choir. Kanani 02:11That's right. And so although the horses go by you, they don't typically make noise when they go by so but every once in a while the sheep comes right up to the fence and starts making noise. But anyways, so if you hear some interesting background noise, that's why. I'm outside on a farm. That's apparently what I do. And we've we've been friends with these guys, well my husband's been friends with one of these one of these guys since college, but what's funny is as Courtney and Hilary very well, no, my knowledge of fruits and vegetables is pretty much non existent.Courtney Hoover 02:45Yeah, a couple of people who are may remember a couple episodes ago, I was buying some eggplant and Kanani was like, What the hell is that? I told her it was kale. And she knew it wasn't kale. But she did. Yeah, she did. She knew it wasn't kale, but she really could not confirm that itt was not kale either. It was just this whole thing.Kanani 03:02Yeah. So last night, so we've been here a couple nights last night we decided to have a barbecue. And we sent and we made a list for the guys to go get the food for the barbecue while we took the kids to go to a fruit stand and buy some produce and stuff. And so last night I'm helping to put together stuff in the kitchen for for the burgers in the barbecue. I grabbed a bag and I'm like, Oh, is this the lettuce you guys bought? And it looked kind of, you know, weird or whatever. But people buy weird things. That's what they do. And my friend looked at me and her jaw just dropped and she's like, that's kale.Courtney Hoover 03:34Ah hahahahaKanani 03:37damn it.Courtney Hoover 03:38This is uh, this is the this is another kale interaction. Why do you hate, have you even tried kale?Doctor Beverley 03:43I don't know clearly. I don't even know what it is. Courtney Hoover 03:46Why do you hate it? It's because you've never tried it. Kanani 03:48It's weird looking. And it's it's waiting. Wait, wait, wait waiting. And I think I have I think I ate at one time not knowing what it was. It was like no.Hilary 03:57Wait wait wait... Wait a minute. You've never tried kale. And you talk all this shit about it? Kanani 04:01No no I've eaten stuff that had it in it like salads and I'm like what is this and they're like oh it's got kale isn't it not so good and I'm like no no it's not good it's notHilary 04:11But have you tried it like outside of it being raw.Kanani 04:15I think so I think I ate I think the first time I had it was it was it was mixed into some sort of a dish of some kind like a yakisoba or something I don't know. Hilary 04:27Ok I was like are you gonna talk shit on something that you haven't even triedKanani 04:30It's nasty and I apparently and I clearly I hate it so much. I can't even identify it when it's in front of me. So anyways, that's kind of what I've been up to the last few days hanging out at the farm and and spending some time with with family friends. What have you all been up to?Courtney Hoover 04:49You know, it's it's been a combination of battling invasive plants that have taken over our lawn and You know, basically cursing the Muses of the world. I think I've talked about this before, I think and then I never got into the Harry Potter series, which I know, for a long time was kind of considered blasphemous for witch to not be into Harry Potter. And I'll tell you why. Up until recently, it was because I was just really mad at the fates for giving that idea to someone else, because I would have loved to have written that series, but I didn't think of it. So therefore, somebody else did, and has made a lot of money right now. And I'm even and I finally came to peace with that, like, oh, maybe my time is coming, blah, blah, blah. But I was thinking this week, like, you know, what, if the fates had just given me that idea, I could have written it and I wouldn't be a big giant transphobe right now about it and be a big bullyHilary 05:46You wouldn't be an ASSHOLECourtney Hoover 05:47No. So I'm sitting here going, that would just not and I want to give away a lot of the money too, because I don't believe billionaires should exist. So it's like okay, fate. So I'm just sitting here. You know, I'm just I don't know my hearts been pretty heavy lately for a lot of reasons you know we've we've had more police killings this week and also, you know, just seeing seeing someone with that much power really undermine the identities of people who have really found a lot of solace in her work. Or people in general, but I know a lot of queer, non binary, and trans people have really found a lot of solace in JK Rowling's books and now you know, she's she's really just is the greatest example of punching down. Friends if you're not, if you're not familiar with what has happened she is JK Rowling has been on this Twitter tirade recently about trans women not being actual women, which is not true trans women are women and I cannot say that loud enough or hard enough. But she has and she has said a lot of things to the the contrary and is now spending. There's so many things that are going on in the world right now that are so painful and so awful. Where she could be having such a powerful impact. She's choosing to literally bully and it's just made me very, very sad.Hilary 07:08I know, it's really you know it. It's so disappointing because you talk about someone who wrote a series that really celebrates people, celebrating inclusivity and saying like these people, we want them to be part of something bigger, right? We want them to be part of this, of this community, and then you have her going, I believe in championing women, but not these women. Right? And it's like, it's just so disappointing for someone who is in such a place of power and visibility who who has said for eternity, what a hardcore feminist she is to say, these women don't matter. And outside of saying these women don't matter her words, you know, when you're when you're in that place of visibility, like it's not just your opinion. You're spreading your opinion to many people that listen to you and believe in you, right? Yeah. And you're taking an already incredibly dangerous place for trans women. And making it even more dangerous, and even more exclusionary, you know, trans women already have the hardest time to fight for space and visibility. And not only does she harbor these opinions, which is disgusting to begin with, but she uses her platform of celebrating differences right? to punch down at literally one of the most vulnerable vulnerable groups of people there isCourtney Hoover 08:39so anyway, it just starts for our members of our of our audience who are trans, non binary and or otherwise just really hurt by JK Rowling's actions. You know, we see you and we hear you and we're, you know, we're deeply disappointed in the actions of this.Kanani 08:55It's an important reminder that I think there's, there's often times and I was actually talking to someone about this earlier, there's kind of this perception that people who kind of are in the magical community and that practice, you know, witchcraft and other forms of paganism that there's a very open mindedness. It's very liberal, it's very accepting. It's very inclusive. And and I think that that definitely can hold true. But it's also a reminder and I think it can be very jarring for people when they see where it's not, because there are definitely spaces where it is not inclusive and it is it is not as diverse as you would think. And there are there are groups of people who get who gets isolated and and are not welcome to join. And so I think these are kind of like that's why some of these instances where things like this happen really hurt is because I think that a lot of people kind of find a safety in this case. kind of magical community and then when they reach these, hear these people say these things and it's like, wait, that's literally, you know, the opposite of how you've made me feel up until this point, and then now you're telling me what your feelings are, and you're telling me that I'm not okay? Like, you've been telling me this whole time that I should be who I am and that that's okay. And that, you know, the world loves me and accepts me and I should, you know, be comfortable to be my true self. But now you're telling me that my true self isn't real. So I think that it's, you know, it kind of helps to show that there's still a lot of work that needs to be done within the magical community as far as embracing others and inclusivity and that it's not necessarily this, you know, super liberal, safe space.Hilary 10:51I mean, I think that's true. I mean, I think that there is a lot of inclusivity in the magical community. And there are a lot of really amazing people that champion and elevate those that are most vulnerable, but it is not free from hatred or exclusion, or phobias or racism or you know, any of it. So I think that, you know, what we can do as a community is continue to make sure that we include and elevate, especially those that are the most vulnerable among us. Because that's what a community like ours should do. But other than that, yeah, I've been. I've been working on some musical projects. So I have a virtual show happening on June 26, at 8pm, through the City Lights Theatre Company, and I can share it on our page but it's a it's a really amazing one. work by an artist called Cellista. And it's the pieces called Transfigurations and it's really all it really centers a lot around social justice issues, specifically around displacement and gentrification. So it's a really beautiful piece. So I'm excited to have that coming up. So I've been doing some filming and recording to contribute. There'll be some live elements, some pre recorded elements. Obviously, it's a challenge to get when you have multiple instruments together to try and do something live together without any lag is is virtually impossible right now. But it's still very exciting to be able to participate and we'll post the link it's going to be a it's a really powerful performance.Courtney Hoover 12:47I can't wait because I haven't seen you perform in years because the time that cannot and I tried to go and everything was running really late and because we're old and, and I had a flight to catch we had to leave before you even got on stage.Hilary 13:00Oh my God. That's right.Kanani 13:02Well, one of the things I wanted to share with everybody, we've posted it on Facebook at least once I'm going to post it again this week, it's the fact that a lot of our listeners, I'm sure are familiar with Stonehenge. And because of what's going on with the pandemic and social distancing and whatnot, they've made arrangements that the group....,Courtney Hoover 13:24Kanani I don't know, I don't know what Stonehenge is, I think you should explain itHilary 13:28what? What is Stonehenge Kanani 13:29Ok well, we'll get into some of that, but they've made arrangements with some of the groups that would usually do their summer solstice ritual there, that they're actually going to be they they're not allowed to be there for social distancing reasons. But um, but they are going to livestream summer solstice at at Stonehenge. And so for those who are not necessarily familiar with with Stonehenge, it's it's Where are they... It's stones that were placed in such a way that I'm trying to explain how would you even explain it's almost like a sundial like a giant sundial. And for the summer solstice, the sun comes directly between these two stones, and it perfectly aligns with these stones. And then for the winter solstice, if you turn 180 degrees and look out the other way, the stones perfectly aligned with the sunrise and the sunset for the winter solstice.Courtney Hoover 14:41This is in England.Kanani 14:44Yes. And it was built in about 2500 BC. And so I don't know how to explain it. Like it's a giant sundial, but it's amazing.Courtney Hoover 14:53We don't really yeah, and there's not a there's not a lot that is known about Stonehenge. I mean it is a it stones like you said it's a stone circle. these giant pieces of rock that are balanced in this very way that you're not even entirely sure how they got there.Hilary 15:07They aren't sure how they got there because that type of rock isn't native to that area,Kanani 15:13right. Yeah, it's sorry. They're sarsen stones. And it says, if you were to stand in the middle of the stone circle on Midsummer's day, the sun rises just to the left of the healstone an outlying stone to the northeast of the monument, and they had found another large stone hole next to it that they believe at one time there had been two stones there. So you would actually look in between them. And and if you were to turn around and look out the opposite direction that it would line up perfectly with winter's day, the solstice. And so yeah, they there's there's very little known about it, and that but other than that they perfectly aligned with the soulstice axises and It's it's pretty amazing and remarkable. I mean, they've been around since 2500 BC. Courtney Hoover 16:06But what you're saying is that people can tune in and actually watch the summer solstice ritual at Stonehenge this year.Kanani 16:11yeah, so because of the social distancing and the pandemic, they will not allow people who would usually have ritual celebrations. Instead, they're going to do a live video footage. So we'll have a link for people who are interested to check it out and watch it online. If they want. I think it would be amazing. That's always been one of those places that I would love to just kind of stand at and look at and be amazed by. But yeah, so I think that's very cool that for the first time ever, they're actually going to livestream being able to look at the solstice through Stonehenge. So that's one of the things I will be doing for the summer solstice. Is there anything that you ladies are gonna be doing for summer solstice?Courtney Hoover 16:51Well, I'm excited because this summer solstice lines up with a new moon. And it also lines up with Father's Day now Father's Day. I mean, I love my dad, so I'm celebrating him. I'm looking forward to that. But I feel like there's a lot of magical power around this specific day because summer solstice is the longest day of the year and I not looking in front of me to see exactly what time the summer solstice is this year if it you know, varies from the actual New Moon or not. But there is a new moon on June 21. So again, speaking in the Northern Hemisphere, our southern hemisphere friends are now entering into winter solstice. But for those of us up here, this is what we're experiencing and summer solstice has is a very magical spirit infused time I, my husband and I have noticed that the dog has been acting a little funny lately, and we've tried to figure out why, like, is he is he eating normal? Yes. Is did we scrip as medication? No, we checked all the boxes. But he gets really nervous at night and he's been looking at things that we don't see. And so I feel like we're starting to experience some some spirit activity. I mean Shakespeare wrote an entire play about the the entrance of a fairy like beings and spirits on midsummer. So it's a time of a lot of beautiful magic that can happen and aligning with with the spirit world. And because it's on a new moon, which we know is about renewal and cleansing and releasing, and because it's also on Father's Day, which you could you could associate as a day aligned with patriarchy. I feel like this is a really powerful time to do some magic to change the course of where different, different nations are going, especially here in the United States, where we're seeing a real toxic kind of patriarchy, that is doing a lot of damage. I feel like this is a time that we can work on switching those things. So that's the magic that I'm gonna be doing for the world which will really piss off our troll. Oh my god, you guys. We had a troll last week on Twitter. Oh my god, she was so wigged outHilary 18:46Oh yeah she was crazyCourtney Hoover 18:48she was so fucking freaked out about our interview with Misha because we're talking about doing Full Moon magic that would benefit you to benefit social justice. And she just went on slamming us and many other people doing that same kind of work. We did record it, we changed her the voice like the sound of her voice for her protection, you can hear it if you listen to the end of our episode after our, our end music, we often stick something funny at the end. So if you stick through us till the end here, you're going to, you're going to hear that. The other thing I'm going to do is I'm going to take the crystal that I first charged that winter solstice. So as you guys remember, I got up at dawn at winter solstice, which dawn was like it almost eight o'clock in the morning that day, because it's the shortest day of the year and caught the first light of dawn in my my crystal. Well, I'm going to do that again, for summer solstice and the it'll probably be close to 10 o'clock at night because the sun stays up very, very late in our part of the world this time of year. And I'm going to catch the last rays of the sun on summer solstice in this crystal so it will continue to infuse it with the power to shine light on things. So I can use this crystal if I want to call attention to say my writing or to say our podcast or to other areas of my life that I feel need more attention. I can use that, that energy and that work. So I'm gonna be doing a couple of different things on on a summer solstice for that reason.Hilary 20:06Yeah. So I also similarly, I had planned to recharge that crystal as well. And then I had a planned ritual also, which was really, again around bringing shedding light on or bringing attention to people that are fighting for social justice causes, right so really finding a way to get more visibility for voices that needs to be heard louder. And then and then equally for my personal life to again draw energy towards some of the things that some of the creative projects that I'm working on that I that I really want to see. See get attention in the next year. So very similar to Courtney actually. But um, but yeah, I think it's for me, it's important to, you know, focus on the world but also make time to focus on myself too Kanani 20:57Great and with all that being said, we would read like to introduce Doctor Beverley. Doctor Beverley is a two headed conjure woman and empath and a justified spiritual worker. She is a root worker, a diviner skilled in bone reading and Tarot, formerly a druid High Priestess of the druidic craft of the wise, the American Rite. She is a lifelong student of herbalism aroma therapy, African American and Caribbean American folk magic, Doctor Beverley custom blends and handcraft spiritual baths, conditions, soaps, oils and sachets, in small batches, freshly made to order for each client. She's a Reiki Master and longtime Yogi. She believes in the mind body soul connection to spiritual growth in healing. Doctor Beverley is available for readings, root work and spiritual counseling. She has a soft spot for sex workers, dancers, gamblers and all of those who discriminated against in any way. She may be found on Facebook, Doctor Beverley Spiritual Gangsta and online . That's fantastic that's one of my favorite bios.Courtney Hoover 22:18Well, here's the thing is also I got to know Doctor Beverley from Pantheacon and one thing she did not mention is that she should have been awarded Best Dressed at Pantheacon every year because she always showed up looking fabulous every time I saw her and I'm like trying to like basically dress and bathe and feed myself after four days of just bombardment by by witchcraft community and there's Doctor Beverley like I have my own personal dresser and stylist and here I am looking perfect. I don't know if you do but you look like you do.Doctor Beverley 22:47I'm from New York City we have to represent.Courtney Hoover 22:51I was I was living in New York then and I still couldn't representKanani 22:55I'm reading the bio and I'm shopping at the same time. I'm like, handcrafted tissue. And oh, it was and I'm like, No, stop, read, read stop shopping, stop shopping. Courtney Hoover 23:07This has not been the first time it's happened where karate gets so distracted by the guests offerings and she just stops the interview and goes shoppingDoctor Beverley 23:17Thank you that was just just wonderful to listen to you read thatKanani 23:22my goodness. We are so excited to have you on to talk with us today. And one of the things that we got to see was some amazing pictures that you had taken from Burning Man festival.Doctor Beverley 23:39Yes, those were Burning Man pictures. I sent you a sampling from 2015 through 2019. I literally have thousands of those. It's a great event. And I would suggest anybody that could possibly get to it to try out, you're going to have a great time. It's greatHilary 24:03I actually was there in 15 and 12. And it's a really incredible experience. In 12, I was there with a with a large sound camp on Esplanade and then in 15 I was actually doing work for Burning Man and helping assisting with stage managing of the two stages that were at the base of the man and then I performed both years as well so it was a it's just a really incredible experience it's it's there's nothing like it and I you know it I mean, it's it's not an easy if I said someone the other day asked me, was asking me about Burning Man and my experience was like it's not an easy experience, but it is an incredible experience.Doctor Beverley 24:54Oh, it's transformative. You're absolutely right. There's nothing easy about No Burning Man. No. Oh, I'm not going to call it a struggle to survive, but you must be planned. You must have plans. You must have a structure or you must have a vision of how you're going to get through those eight days. Do you remember that huge dust storm on friday?Hilary 25:26Oh Yeah. I mean that's the fun thing about Burning Man so I you know I think that Burning Man again it like it tests you. It's like it really is transformative because you know it's not only do you experience and see things and art and and magick and everything that you can't even begin to describe. It also tests you on a physical and emotional level because it is it is uh not the easiest environment but I truly... Those dust storms I mean those dust storms are like terrifying but magical in their own sense you know it's like you you're like well I just I here i am i'm just gonna sit here because I can't see two inches in front of my faceDoctor Beverley 26:12Come on now come on you know that huge Friday. It was terrifying, there was no magic in that one.Hilary 26:21It was really scary I was working the stage on that one Courtney Hoover 26:26I feel like that magic can be terrifying though and yeah there's there's there's a magic like it to me I clearly wasn't there but the kinds of fears and in that's that's actually the earth itself. I've heard all these stories about like, you know, these suburban witches that are, not saying that to you guys at all by any means, but to you suburban witches that are like oh I want to you know, embrace the elements. Let's do a ritual in the woods at night. And then you have a rainstorm that comes up or you have you have all of a sudden it gets very dark and your light is not sufficient. You're you know you you drop your flashlight Are your candles go out? And so you're faced with the actual raw terror of the earth, which is what is inspired our ancestors to start trying to create magick like to deal with "Oh my god, it's a fucking dust storm. What do we do? Call the spirits to help. Hilary 27:14so true. Courtney Hoover 27:15Talk about getting back to your basics, y'all.Hilary 27:18Oh, it's so true.Doctor Beverley 27:20That is that is a fact. A lot of our magick has been developed to deal with situations, whether they be brought on by nature or brought on by our neighbors or brought on by the tribe across the way. You know, our magick, our sympathetic magick that we don't, those of us who know what we do, that comes from need, from needing to save ourselves from the elements needing to feed our families needing to protect ourselves. So absolutely. This mother of ours, Gaia, has taught us that we have to have fear and awe of her and we respect her as our mother. And so I do see the magick in both of fearsome and terrifyingHilary 28:30I think it's really true because I think that whenever I'm in those situations where something that Mother Earth creates genuinely terrifies me it just like, it is scary, but it does it does it provide gives me like such a such a large amount of respect because I'm like, Oh, you could take me out right, the second. I get that. I totally understand that. And I honor the power that you hold. And I think that those scary moments where where we are, you know, whether it be a dust storm or a rainstorm or flood or whatever it's like that is terrifyingly powerful. And it just makes you have it makes me at least have this like, huge amount of reverence for the power that Mother Earth is, you know?Doctor Beverley 29:24Well, she likes to remind us of our place every once in a while, you know, we tend to forget that we are animals, like all the other creatures of this planet, and we tend to feel a lot of hubris, you know, and a lot of ego and she likes to slap us back to next week, or back last week, once in a while.Kanani 29:50So we we learned a lot about well, we've talked a lot about your experiences and whatnot at Burning Man, but what and I'm hoping we get up post some of the pictures and stuff because they're absolutely incredible. But what are some what are some other like fabulous summer solstice festivals that that you've been a part of or that you really found inspiring?Doctor Beverley 30:16Well, you know, I spent 20 years as a druid, and during those 20 years, I moved up in the ranks to High Priestess. So I've seen a lot of fabulous Solstice celebrations. One thing that my coven used to do, is I'd get up at four o'clock in the morning and drive an hour and a half to the, I want to call it local but to the beach because I live in Southern California. So I drive from the mountains to the beach, who was first come first serve to secure the bond fires, the bonfire pits that they had on the beach. And so I would go and I would reserve by hanging out there until my people arrived at noon. We would hang out, some of us hang out from 530 in the morning, until people arrived, and that we do fabulous bonfire and frolicking in the sea and flying kites and telling stories and belly dancing. So I've had 20 years of amazing spiritual community experiencing the beautiful sea or the woods because you know, we were Druids and we put great reverence in forests, so we would often do our forest sabbats drain Lammas and for Beltane but summer solstice was always the beach. Always beach. Beautiful. There's so much magic at the summer solstice, the druid group that I was with was called the droid, the druidic craft of the wise. And it was the American Rite. The American R I T E, not opposite of left. But the American rite.Courtney Hoover 32:34An important distinction these days. Doctor Beverley 32:37Yes you've got tomake that distinction. When when I heard the introduction read, I was like, Oh, no, I hope there'll be some part right wing. You know,Kanani 32:47one of the things that we often ask our guests, which I would love to hear is, at what point and how did you know that you were a witch?Doctor Beverley 32:58I didn't know the term But I knew that I was definitely different from the rest of my family. They're evangelical Christians. And I was probably a preschooler when... I know it's gonna sound crazy, but I saw fairies, I don't know if they're called The Fae, or different people call them different things, a little entities that live outside in the foliage. I saw them with my own eyes. I tell my parents, and they wouldn't shush me because I was a baby, you know, I'm a preschooler. They would shush me and tell me that I was seeing things and it's your little invisible friends, you know, that sort of thing. Very condescending, but not mean spirited. And as I got older, I found myself disputing out loud, a lot of the religious teachings that I was being brought up in. I went to a parochial school from kindergarten, no from first grade through university. All right? So through four years of university, all the way back, I went to a parochial school. And every step of the way, I was arguing with the professors, pissing the religious leaders off, constantly called having people call my parents at home complaining about me. From the beginning I was never buying any of that, evangelical, so from the very beginning. Now, once I left my parents home after graduating from college, I was able to completely divest myself of Evangelical Christian spirituality. And I totally rejected that. I started feeling more myself. As you know, as you get into your 20s and you start becoming your own person, you start throwing away the things that don't work for you. And that's what happened. I started reading. I my first book on spirituality was by Luisah Teish. And I believe her book is called The Natural Woman's Guide to Spirituality and is loosely based on African traditional religions and the Orisha and she was the first book that I read That order and then I started reading other books I probably first found Druidism through that book, The Mists of Avalon. Now I know that that book has become sort of revived, reviled in some circles, because of the author's beliefs on certain subjects. You know what I'm talking about?Courtney Hoover 36:32Yeah, it's funny. That was a theme we were talking about before you came on about, you know, JK Rowling and Harry Potter and that you've got a book that's highly inspirational with an author that's highly problematic. Doctor Beverley 36:42Exactly. Courtney Hoover 36:43Anyway, sorry to interrupt there. Go ahead. Doctor Beverley 36:45No, but that's that's how I've found druidism. Because reading that fiction, I felt there was something that spoke to my my heart to my soul. And I stayed in that tradition for 20 years until I felt that I wanted something a little less Eurocentric. so when my co priest left the tradition because you wanted to do something less Eurocentric, he was Cuban, bless his heart. He has, he's left us. He's transitioned six years ago. But he wanted something less eurocentric. And that was probably about 15 years ago, and he discovered Conjure, and Hoodoo which is African American folk magic. It's not a religion, per se. Many of the practitioners are religious. Many consider themselves Christian, but you don't need a eligion to practice carpenter. He introduced me to it and I realized, oh my goodness, this some of the very same things that my Jamaican family speaks of when they speak of Obeah. Obeah is Jamaican folk magic, and it's almost identical to Conjure and Hoodoo in some of the very same root workings, we call spells root work, because we work almost exclusively with herbs, flowers, stems, roots, anything plant matter, because the Africans believe that all plants had spirit that have jobs to do according to their agreements with spirit. So we use herbs and roots and flowers in all of our workings. And when I discovered that, then I retired from the High Priestess in the Druid craft to the wise, and I love my Druid brothers and sisters, I love those people. But I needed to do something that was truer to my ancestry. And so that's what I do right now. That's what I've been doing for about the last 15 years or so informally. And then the last seven or eight years very what's the word? I do it only i did i do it exclusively.Kanani 39:57So is there anything you do differently? Now, through that for summer solstice, do you still kind of do something similar or have you kind of changed what you do for the solstices?Doctor Beverley 40:10Well, you know, they say once a druid Druid because Druidry is about nature, it's about being in tune with the energies and the cycles and rhythms of the earth. So I always know what season it is what Sabbat it is. I always am in tune with the lunar cycles. I always know what's like the lunar lunar is in right now. That comes from being a druid. So no, I'll always celebrate these seasons, because they're not tied to any religion. They're tied to our celestial cycle. So the sun shines on us all. Of course I don't do anything differently. We still celebrate the the solstice, my family still does that. We always make sure that we're somewhere relaxing, playing, taking pleasure, eating good food, and always with a bonfire. Always to celebrate the height of summer to celebrate the height of the sun, and to celebrate being alive. So no, I don't see any reason to stop celebrating and observing the sun cycles. Mm hmm.Courtney Hoover 41:45I just love that what you said about using this time to celebrate being alive. What a blessing. What a beautiful way, thank you for saying that.Doctor Beverley 41:55Absolutely. We should all be playing. We should all be taking Pleasure on the solstice it is all about being alive.Courtney Hoover 42:05And I feel like that's so important, especially coming out of this pandemic. And we were still well, I wouldn't even say we're coming out of it, we're still very much in it. Yeah. But you know, then also with with the with so much pain and loss and injury happening to the members of our black community happening now it's like let us all celebrate, you know, the the life that life and togetherness that whenever we can, and however we can.Doctor Beverley 42:34Yeah, I've been grieving. I've been grieving a lot. I wasn't sure that I could do this podcast, because we've been in a lot of pain in the community and in my household. But with the solstice coming, we knew that we had to do what we've always done and what we have done has for the last 20 years. We have always found a time around the solstice, which is often around father's day to celebrate and be with my family at the river. We have always headed for the river after the coven celebrations. We've always headed for the river. And we spent the better part of the week up there. bonfires, fishing, swimming, hanging around doing nothing drinking beer. It's good.Kanani 43:41One of the things you brought up a lot is you have a lot of experience in group practice and group work. And we actually had a really interesting listener question came in that we thought maybe you could kind of help with. "I am a lone practitioner and have recently moved to an area of the country where I do not yet have a witchcraft community. Recently, I am feeling the need to explore joining or creating a coven. Strength in community feels especially important these days. However, I do feel apprehensive about how to go about this and placing trust in a circle of people, particularly women, after having experienced many forms of betrayal. So perhaps I'm not the best candidate and or need to do spell work around attracting like minded practitioners. Are there best practices on Covens on joining them, forming them? How do you avoid the complexities that cause burnout, ego battles, power struggles, etc.? what exactly happens during coven gatherings? And would you recommend this sort of participation versus being solo if one lives in an area that is less populous than the major cities? Would it be essential to have folks from the same traditions? And do you anticipate this as challenging.?" There's so many things in that. Doctor Beverley 45:04There's so much to unpack.Courtney Hoover 45:0710 words or less and GODoctor Beverley 45:13It's gonna be a big ride. Those are my 10 words or less. All right, here we go. Number one, I would say,cyou know yourself best. If you are a person who is more comfortable in a community of like minded people, then you are not going to be happy as a solo or solitary practitioner. So first things first, know thyself. Now, if you have determined that you would rather be in a community of like minded people, the trick now is to find them. I was lucky enough that I lived in an area, Southern California, where you throw a stone and you'll hit a person or a group that's offering classes and that's what happened. I went to a local What do you call them?Kanani 46:24An esoteric new age or witchy shop?Doctor Beverley 46:27A bookstore and looked at the the teachers on the on the community board chose one, went to that class, loved him, stayed with him for 20 years. So you might get lucky in finding a group that you like, or you may have to go through the painful steps of joining community and then separating from community for whatever reason. There are all kinds of reasons as varied as the people in that community that you know, all kinds of reasons that you may not want to stay on with them. But the first thing is to find a teacher now, know or try to know who you are dealing with. All right. I cannot speak for any tradition, but the tradition that I was involved in, and with Druids, no one stands up and calls himself a teacher. No one stands up and calls themselves an initiate or a priest without eldership. In the Druidic Craft of the Wise one person helps the other person up. It's like climbing up the ladder. The rung ahead of you is to help you and you'll leave a rung behind you to help those climbing up the same ladder. So in the Druidic Craft of the Wise, we had to study as a teacher, as a student teacher for up to two years. And then we taught interested students, who then studied with us if they chose because they had freedom to leave you if you wanted. They studied with the teacher for two years. And the teacher would either remain the teacher or the teacher then could take their students. And in my case, you had to have a total of 13 students, including yourself. 13 people, initiates, that go through the two year process and become initiated. And then once you gather 13 people together and have a vote, and they vote on which two people would be their leadership, then you would be considered a coven by the leadership, the elders that were before you. And elders in this case is not necessarily age, but people who were in the tradition longer than you. So it wasn't one of those that you just hand a signal and say, Hey, I'm a priestess, come and join my group. I'm gonna initiate it, and we're going to be a group. No, this was years of commitment and building community. So I would suggest for anyone who is looking to build or join a community to find like minded people. study together, celebrate the Sabbats together, the you know the monthly moons, celebrate the eight Sabbath's together, party together, drink together, eat together and see if you like and love each other. That's my suggestion.Courtney Hoover 50:40Yeah, I think that coven work can be really can be really really helpful for a lot of people but it can also be extremely challenging. She mentioned she'd had some issues with betrayal and one of the challenges with coven work is that it can bring out the worst in people. Doctor Beverley 50:57Absolutely. Courtney Hoover 50:58Yeah, magic in magick does bring out, can bring out our, we often call it our shadow side, but I think it brings out the stuff that we need to work on. And unfortunately, the people that are going to deal with that are the people closest to you within that magickal circle. So this does not mean you need to stick around with people that are abusive or not working for you. But I think it's fair to have that expectation, you're not going to suddenly find a group that everybody is, is whole and balanced and well, and everybody functions perfectly the majority of the time. That's just not going to happen with magick Doctor Beverley 51:30That's right. Courtney Hoover 51:31And so that's, I really appreciate what Beverley was saying about the need for for structure and initiation. This is not about gatekeeping. This is about that when you are in charge of a group of people's spiritual development, there are tools and practices you need to have in place and you need to have your own self work to a place where you can help them with that. Otherwise, you're all going to hurt each other. And I say that with full experience. I'm raising my hand over here because that's how I got started with my coven, is that I started with people that just wanted to come together for the Sabbats, which was fun, it was great. But then people started to get more serious. And although I had some really excellent, some excellent teachers, a lot of my magickal training was very much a crash course and I was not really set up. I felt like, too. I learned a lot on the job. But I could say that nine years in I had really good boundaries and structure in place, and I wasn't very good priestess, but in the beginning, I screwed up a lot. And a lot of people's feelings got hurt along the way, because I didn't know what I was doing.Doctor Beverley 52:35Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You're just being your your accountant. You're trying to be accountable. Yeah, absolutely. I understand what you're saying.Courtney Hoover 52:44Yeah. And so I feel like for this listener, it is hard because she says finding like minded people. And I would say, don't put too much pressure on yourself. You're asking a lot of questions like How about this? How about this? I think the biggest question that you are probably addressing right now is to find your like minded people. You know, do some Google searches in your state to say or Facebook, there's probably some groups somewhere and just see who's doing something for summer solstice, or maybe a see if anybody wants to do something for summer solstice, super casual, just like Beverley said, everybody brings some foodDoctor Beverley 53:17Great ideaCourtney Hoover 53:17Yeah, we're just going to get together and eat. And in those circumstances, rituals tend to organically develop. The other alternative is that you could, you could approach some online schools, and through those online schools, you may find people who are also taking those online schools that are within a day's drive with you. The two that off the top of my head and Doctor. Beverley may have others as I think of the Temple of Witchcraft, or Sisterhood of Avalon. Sisterhood of Avalon is for people who identify as women, and a Temple of Witchcraft is open to all genders. And yeah, and so that you could people take those classes from all over the world and so you may be able to find people that are like, Oh, you're also taking these classes too. We should get to together.Doctor Beverley 54:00And to be honest, the person who is asking the questions is never going to find that group where there won't be someone who disappoints them. Yes, they're never going to find that because people are people. Even your best friends can reduce you to tears sometimes. So she has to realize, I don't know if it's a she, they have to realize that no perfect group exists. No perfect system in a group that exists. If they know the type of magic that they want to practice or they know the type of group... do they want Druids, do they want fairies, you know what do they want.? They could actually be more specific and find those folks. But they need to know that there is no perfect coven out there. And I'm just going to say it if they are too fragile for interpersonal work, they might want to stay solitary. Because inter personal work is the only thing we do in covens and feelings are bound to get hurt. People are going to be salty, sometimes people are going to have bad days. So if a person is too tender for that, solitary work is probably best for them.Courtney Hoover 55:50At least Yeah, at least for a period of time 55:54 Yeah, so they heal.Courtney Hoover 55:56Yeah it sounds like there's some healing that needs to happen from the from the past group.Kanani 55:59Right. I think I think that kind of I'm also an agreement that I like kind of how you talked about finding just kind of find people that you get along with and that just kind of want to do what you want to do and start with just kind of the celebrations and if you can kind of go well that way that like you said it does kind of it can evolve into a more, I don't know if elaborate right word, but a more personal type of practice together for rituals and whatnot but you really need to have that comfort and and just get along and and you know, security within that group. You can just hang out you can just hang out and be friends and and because like you said people people are fallible and people will disappoint you and people will do things that are frustrating. And so it helps when you have kind of that camaraderie separate from it and ability to kind of forgive and and understand And things like that it makes it easier because it does kind of be it becomes like a family. And so you need to be able to just enjoy each other's company.Doctor Beverley 57:11That's my suggestion. Enjoy each other's company. If you find people who you enjoy, who are like minded, something is going to develop. You don't even have to look for classes or look for community. If you find friends, then community is going to develop. Courtney Hoover 57:34Exactly. Yeah, it's kind of it's I cannot be brought up the notion of family and I always kind of bristle a bit when I hear people talk about their coven is like a chosen family because it sets up an expectation that these people are always going to be there and it also tends to attract, unwillingly a lot, like an idealized family that perhaps you didn't have growing up. And so I always get nervous because then, because one of the natural parts of coven's lifespan is members leave, maybe they leave because they it's not working for them anymore or there was a disagreement that couldn't work. And then the kind of devastation that can happen when people say, "but we're family, how could you leave?" And my response was always, Doctor Beverley 58:16I remember, I remember when you left New York I remember.Courtney Hoover 58:21Oh were you remember that drama? Oh, my God.Doctor Beverley 58:24Well, I wasn't, you know, party to it firsthand. But I remember you mentioning something on your newsfeed the pain and the that that sense of betrayal that your coven mates felt when you had to move. Courtney Hoover 58:41And you know, and I will say the coven mates that were still remaining were were very supportive. I mean, they were sad. Yeah. But here's what was funny where this came from was from a former coven member who had actually left three years before because they wanted to do something else. And to me, that was a wonderful thing. Because this person had come in to our coven, and I realized I'm kind of treading on on, on shaky ground by talking about somebody's process, I'm gonna do the best I can to keep these details anonymous. This person came in absolutely terrified of being rejected by us because they had been rejected by a previous coven. And so there was many years where I was doing a lot of work with them, like, you've got to work on this, this fear of rejection and said, Tell me what you see that makes you feel like you're being rejected. And whenever they couldn't place it, I'm like, okay, just keep doing the work. Alright, so the next ritual you've got to roll in at practice, but that kind of thing. But then at one point, they said, you know, I'm just kind of tired of traveling so much on the weekends, and my job's really busy. I just kind of feel like I need to move on and I was sad to see them go, but to me that was celebration because that meant they had overcome this thing they've been so afraid of.Doctor Beverley 59:51Well look at it like this. We don't stay in our mother's home forever. Courtney Hoover 59:57No, we don't. Doctor Beverley 59:58Some people join covens to grow. And when they have grown, they leave. It should never be taken personally.Courtney Hoover 60:10Exactly. And that's where that's where the that specific situation was so painful because that person decided that I was betraying them and no longer wanted me in their life. Because their thing was, what if I want to come back? Where will you be? That was so hurtful because I had been so supportive of them, like go forth, do what you need to do, why can't you offer that to me? And, and even today, the exchanges, this still happens with this person where they're like, you abandoned me. And I'm like, but you left and that's okay. I was I was glad for you. And so for you not to extend that, to me, is so painful.Doctor Beverley 60:47It's so painful. And the thing is, people don't realize when they, when they, you know, aspire to the priesthood that you become your coveners parents, their spiritual parents. And so they often feel that your actions are personal to them. You know, when I left my group, they, I don't know if they felt betrayed but there was a certain anger there because they thought that I wouldn't be there forever, like a mother. And I had come to a place where that tradition had fed me and nurtured me and cared for me and now I was full. I was healed. I was prepared and ready for the next stage of my life. And so I think anyone that's looking to join a group or looking to build a group has to understand that no coven is permanent. Covens are a nest for people to grow, for fledglings likes to grow. Fledgligs of what you might ask? Fledglings of this classroom called life. And when they need to move on to a different stage, we need to let them go and we need to let go with joy. And with gratitude.Hilary 62:31I think when I try and encourage people to be mindful, you know, we all have experiences that make us fear things, whether that be rejection or, or whatever that may be, that is our past trauma or our past, quote, unquote, baggage. I don't necessarily like to use that term, but you know, um, I think that something to remember is that that is something that is yours and when you come into a new community space it's totally okay to be vulnerable and honest about what your experiences have been. But it is equally your responsibility to take control of that and work on that within yourself because if you have a trauma, all of us have experienced trauma of some sort in our life. And it and we in that carries throughout our lives, but it's also our responsibility to, to do the work on ourselves so that when we do come into a community space, that we don't rely on them to take the brunt of that work that we haven't done on ourselves. Because while a community, a coven, a group, any sort of community is a group of people that are there to elevate you and help you and you know, help you learn and grow. You have to be committed to doing that work within yourself as well. They can't be the only ones teaching you or showing you, you have to be proactive in that process as well. So if there's something that, that you carry with you, I highly suggest diving into that as well. So that when you come to the community, you're able to understand why the way you are feeling, why that's coming up, so that you're not projecting that onto the community around you, or expecting them to carry that for you.Doctor Beverley 64:29Right. And I think that's where the perception that group work can be so toxic. It's because a lot of people who really should be talking to therapists are bringing it to the coven and I always wish that we had, you know, going away parties for coven members who were leaving on good terms. That was just never a thing and I always wish it wasCourtney Hoover 65:00That's a really good point. That's a really good point. Kanani 65:03I think it's like you like you talked about, you know, like, even when you're, you know, when you're in, I think it's kind of a similar dynamic, like, when your family and your close and you love each other and all of a sudden, someone gets a great job offer and they're moving across the country, like, you know, of course, it can be a little foreign because you're gonna miss them, but when you really love them, like you're excited for them, like holy crap, great opportunity, like, you know why guess we're just gonna have to talk on the phone or you know, whatever but but ultimately when you really love someone and you're that bonded with someone, you know, the the right response is, is to be excited for their new excitement and to just be excited that they're starting the next part of their journey, and not just kind of sit around and Oh, woe is me, you know, now they don't love me anymore. It's like, well, that has nothing to do with, you know what's happening right now.Doctor Beverley 65:58I think that's a really good point is that we must really looked at group work or coven membership, whatever you want to call it. But group work is never going to be permanent. enjoy each other, play, worship together, help each other where you can, but never expect therapy from your group. ever expect permanence. enjoy each other, live in the moment. This is where being a yogi comes in, live in the moment. Enjoy those folks while you're while you have each other.Kanani 66:41I think I think that's a really important. I think that's a really important point and I think if you if you go into it with that philosophy, I think that would really help someone to kind of maintain an understanding of this is a part of their journey, and that this is not the answer to their journey because I feel like sometimes that's what people are looking for is an answer to their journey. And the reality is your journey is going to be long and it's going to change. And you want to adapt to that change. And you also want to find people who, who will adapt with you. You know who even if you're really good friends, and you both join one coven, and you think it's great. And then one of them, one of the friends decides, oh, I kind of like this over here. This is more my style, that that's totally supported. And that's not suddenly taken as a personal affront of oh what I do isn't good enough anymore? It's like one has nothing to do with the other.Doctor Beverley 67:42Yeah, we have got to take the politics out of organized religion, which covens are organized religion. Yep. So that's another thing that a seeker needs to decide, do they want organized religion? That's a question they have to ask. Kanani 67:58Absolutely. Well One of the things that we usually do at the end of our podcasts as we have something we do called as below so above where we discuss something we would like to let go of, and something that we would like to bring in it's kind of our spin on as above so below. So Courtney do you want to start us off with one?Courtney Hoover 68:23I'm gonna go with some good old standbys. I am releasing negativity especially negative thoughts I have about myself and I am bringing in focus so good old standbys, but that's what I need right now. So mote that shit.Doctor Beverley 68:37All right, I'll go next. I Beverley I would like to, if only for today, let go of fear and embrace hope.Kanani 68:51So mote thatHilary 68:54yes. So mode that for realDoctor Beverley 68:57Or as is Octavia Butler would so be it, see to it,Hilary 69:07Um, so for me, um, I have a tendency to be hyper critical of projects that I'm really, that I'm very excited about. So I'm letting go of being hypercritical of myself and, and focusing on things that are really inconsequential, and bringing in celebration of success. Successes and being able to focus on, you know, successes and steps in the right direction. So Mote that!Kanani 69:40So I think that one of the things that I've been really thinking about and you know, with everything going on in the world, and I have conversations with my children, and I try and talk to them about things, but the more that I talked to them and the more that I see the more that I realized that really, what you what you read, and what you can try and teach someone is, is so much more limited than life experiences. And so I'm trying to for myself included, and my family, I'm trying to bring in more fun, positive, meaningful life experiences that will just bring bring value to, to our lives into, into who we are. And I'm, I'm going to try and let go of the fear that no matter how hard I try, and I think this is something that all moms are going to relate to, you always feel like you're not doing it right. You're not doing it right. You're not doing it well enough. You know, you're not you're not doing enough and, and so I'm going to try and bring in some really meaningful, important life experiences and let go of the fear that I'm I'm not doing enough or not doing it right. And just realize that everything I'm doing is impactful and meaningful and it's, I can just do what I can do.Hilary 71:12So mote thatDoctor Beverley 71:15So be it, see to itKanani 71:18I love that. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Doctor Beverley.Doctor Beverley 71:24Thank you for having meKanani 71:24I feel like I feel like you provided you so much amazing, I don't know just so much amazing information and knowledge and wisdom on on so many different things. I just can't thank you enough for being on it was absolutely wonderful to have you here. Doctor Beverley 71:40Well, it was a pleasure to be here. Thank you so much. I cannot wait to hear the podcast. And thank you so much.Kanani 71:50And for those of you listening, we want to remind everybody, you can find us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, We also have an Etsy shop and for the month of June 10% of all the proceeds of any sales on our Etsy shop go to Protect the Sacred. So it is a it is a group supporting frontline efforts for people in the Navajo nation that are facing difficulties due to COVID-19 and other difficulties that they are personally facing right now. So 10% of all our Etsy sales are going to that fundraiser and we just thank you guys for listening. We always love the emails and messages that we get for topics and ideas that you guys have questions on or are curious about. We learn things just like everybody else when we ask these questions. So it's kind of it's really fun to get these questions. But thank you all for joining us and have a have a great Solstice(Exit Music) 72:47Join us on the first and third Monday of the month for Magickal tips and stories about living as a witch in today's world. Find us at for archived episodes or to ask your burning questions for us to answer in a future podcast. So mote it be.Twitter Troll 73:01(Recorded in a fake very high pitched voice) "Get a load of these broads thinking they know something about spiritual warfare. Did the little witch get her fee fees hurt? You might regret engaging in witchcraft over the next 24 hours. If you try to think darkness towards our president, his family or any of those who work to protect or defend, that same dark energy will boomeranging back 1000 times upon your head and the head of witches around the world. Why don't you have meon your podcast and we can talk it out. Why all these beautiful gals block me the second I respond to them? Simply impossible to have a decent conversation with all this blockage. Just tell me when and I will call. I have a show too. I tried to private message to you. I have no plans right now. Give me a call. I would love to chat on the podcast about tonight's witchy efforts against President Trump and the police, I made a movie while you waiting for you to call, but you never did. Now I have I need to sleep. But think of me as you nurture your 1000 boomerang wounds. Hugs and kisses." ................
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