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If you're a salesman and not selling, you're toast.If you're a?CEO?and your company isn't performing, you're toast.If you're a professional athlete and not performing, you're toast.If you're the President of the United States and you and your country aren't performing, well that's quite alright in the eyes of 40% of America. Oh, and it's your predecessor's fault.Funny because if you're a U.S. Senator and you suck, you'll probably still get re-elected because the majority of your constituents have no idea what your name is, let alone what your record in their state is.If you're a US Supreme?Court?judge, you can screw up as many times as you want and never face a penalty.Alice3 in Dunwoody, Georgia said:?co's that outsource need to be fined. Its all about money. We made a million last yr we want 2 million this year. 3rd party needs to go. What is this "featured jobs"??? you fill out the info and it brings you to a phone # you have to call... so you play the game and all they are concerned about is you going to school. Soon as you say NO thats the end of it. Yet another process of elimination thats what its about. Theres more reasons NOT to hire you than to hire.Last I checked, this is America and companies can hire whoever they want, especially in a global economy. Fine companies that open up offices worldwide? Seriously? And you expect companies to start?hiring?MORE with an attitude like that?Companies will outsource or hire more here if the numbers make sense. Period. Its not about politics, its about money, its ALWAYS been that way. Without companies making money, they would be out of?business.... you dont stay in business breaking even.You think multinational companies are a recent creation? American companies outsource, as do foreign companies insource. We have Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Honda, Mercedes, Haier, Nestle, and EADS with factories and offices here in the US. Think of how many more would come here if we didnt have the highest corporate income tax rate in the world. American workers are the most productive in the world, but we're also the most expensive.How do you screw up as a SCOTUS judge when you are there to give your opinion? While I have the utmost contempt for judges who are activist judges...its not because they are screwing up, its because their ideology and opinions are what they are, and which President put them there. You cant really fault a left wing judge making a left wing decision when Obama knew exactly how they would vote.That's just it, you're NOT there to give your opinion. That's what it's become, not what it's supposed to be. Pretty scary how we're all at the whim of their biased opinions. They're all supposed to leave their own personal values at home.Yet another criminal paying for his mistake..... oh joy.How many years has our "dear"?government?been making laws like that which have such unintended and adverse affects, yet they just can not be bothered to think things through.... What are they getting paid (and outrageous?health?benefits) for again?I want a job like that..... good pay, great benefits, no accountability... but I'm way too honest to be in a government position..... is that where I went wrong?How nice for Obama. Its such a LIE its ahhhhhhh. They talked to a guy unemployed for a month. Talk to someone unemployed a yr or more. People think you dont want to work and thats not the case at all. Applying for these min wage job and even they arent responding.Take a look at the debt clock. Not for the faint of heart or those with hypertension!I disagree with the 22 million unemployment figure. It seems higher. But okay, let's use their figures. I don't see how they are counting people out ofcollege?who haven't had a job and might live with their parents.They also don't count all of the people who are underemployed, or working part time jobs, or can't afford any?healthcare?(you have to come here illegally to get that.)It says the population is 314,557,508?It says the US workforce is 143,063,882?It says unemployment is 22,743,271I feel the same about this place.?You see all these people who don't have to work flaunting their money here. It is Disneyland and they are always going on vacations. What shocked me when I moved here, is that there are people as young as 30 who are retired. And the people who got left homes, so they rent them and live off it. Then they get called "successful" and well to do. Well, we all know why they ask if you are White. They want to keep their PC quotas up.Then they get free?healthcare. Oh don't get me started.The low wages were du jour back normal pay back in the 1970s. You made $10 an hour easily. How many decades ago was that? o_OYou got full benefits, medical,?dental, vision...no copays, no bills from the doctor, and you barely saw it come out of your pay. And people were at companies long enough to retire, too.A cart of groceries was less than $50, now, it's almost 150 or more.A jug of Tide was NOT $10.00.And?HUMAN RESOURCES?was called Personnel, and they didn't try to cut you up into pieces. They weren't smug like they are now.Not in my field -?Aerospace. Cronyism is how most people get hired. The best jobs go to members of Skull and Bones or those whose fathers are in Congress. Ask George Bush. Heh!I dislike both parties. I think they are one big party. What I fear is now, they will build up the Navy, etc., and start another war. Wars make money for them.There was once a time when people got jobs. Now, the population is so great, and the?government?keeps letting people in, and we don't even have enough livable wage jobs for ourselves.I've been noticing this...we are all alone in our job hunts.?We have been taught to be independent, and yeah, that's all good, but now, we are all hurting. We need to band together.I mean in real life. The SHTF is coming, and there isn't anything in place that is reversing it.We need to think about how we can work together as groups wherever we are, and help each other because we have a greater chance of survival not being alone.I used to have hope, but when I look around, it's not happening. We don't need politicians promising us things and the media giving us fake figures. We need to see plants, factories, and real businesses opening up.I think that is why so many businesses are hell holes now, they are squeezing whatever money they can from them as time is running out.There are things happening that do not get media coverage. All I care to say is get connected to your local?community, independent merchants, groups...mmmm, you might even discover that there is a hidden job market closer than you think!?!?I'm not talking communism or anarchy or passages from the Holy Books. I'm talking about dignity for each one of us, earning our living without entitlements or welfare or corporate enslavement...doing things legally yet helping your community write new rules.I've been fed up with being fed up. Folks, make the choice soon to be part of a new & just society. Take action. We the People can have more power than the system if we band together!I am tired of the system. I am tired of having to give up to get.?This is a horrible system we have. We make money for others, so they can get rich, but we can't, we can't move up, and they throw money at us to live off of.There had to be something more dignified in raising goats than this. I am educated, I love learning about the world and love science. But I don't like what this place has turned into.An employer is more likley to hire someone younger as opposed to older because they want someone thats going to stay. Not getting ready to retire soon, be out on medical leave etc. Once you hit 50 its impossible to find something due to your age more than anything else. Too many people applying is the problem.It's not our ages.?It's not their ages.?And the myth that they all want young people is as bad as any of the other myths.?I know a few 20-25 year olds who cannot find jobs and they've hit the payment.?They are competing with the illegals for jobs, too. No one wants to say that, because it's not PC.There are no jobs, that's why old and young cannot find jobs.Think about it...what do these kids have to look forward to??My daughter had some friends when we lived back east. Three of the boys went to work for a local landscaper when school was out. They worked one week, and when they went back, the owner said he didn't need them anymore. He had several Mexicans there.The boys said they were having trouble getting paid for that week of work. I told them to get their fathers and make a visit.I think kids today see how bad things are. It is really disheartening. I know when I was young, it was all about getting experience, but there were jobs doing almost everything. If you made a good impression, you could get your foot in the door.Not now. Unless these kids know someone, they got a life of hell working for some big box or?food?chain. My heart goes out to them. They are wondering how we ever bought into a life of slavery.Did you ever think you'd see things like this in your lifetime??It's outrageous.Imagine, if this keeps up, and there is nothing in place to stop it...what it will be like for the younger people when they are our ages?An?HR?person spoke at one of my networking groups and she said something that was very profound. She said that all of this was going on even back when you HAD THAT GOOD JOB!She said that two jobs were lost: the one you had and the one you need. Between automation and offshoring, there just aren't that many jobs anymore.Employers are worried they arent going to be makeing enough to stay in?business?with the new tax's medical etc. Alot of it is greed. If we made 1 million this yr we should make 2 million next yr. We are tax'ed over and over. There is no way that the deficit will ever be paid back. Gov is too much in our face. The unemployed are going to put the employed out of work. Its all a nightmare and a new president is NOT going to fix this horror.Teens have it really rough, at least were I live. Some are desperate to work because they need to help their parents out, and they can't get hired at even McDonalds anymore. There are so many middle age people who work at these restaurants now. It's sad, because these people shouldn't be working at?fast food?and this is all they could find. It's rough on everybody because EVERYBODY needs a job. It's so sad, I've known several families who have parents and teens applying for the same jobs and getting into arguments, blaming each other, for not being able to get that job at Taco Bell.?What is life coming to.And once you start your career after?college...it's kinda hard to change especially with the loans coming due. So your stuck doing something you truly don't love.18 is way too young to know what will make you happy career-wise.I absolutely agree. My brothers are about to graduate high school. They have no idea what they want to do right now. I am trying to persuade them to wait until they know what they want to do before they go to college. But, my parents are still stuck in the mindset of "If you have a degree, you're set for life." And unfortunately, they believe my parents and are going ahead with college.?I really don't want them to end up like me. Graduated with a ton of debt and no job options.I feel bad for everyone. I love what this nation stood for, what it was founded on, but now, it has become indecent. People are numbers, like you said, treated like robots. You can't get sick or have any feelings or dreams.There aren't many remote places on the planet left for anyone to start something new.I always remember Samuel Adams said he would never be a slave. His father was named Sam Adams too, and he was both a Deacon and a Brewmaster. Interesting combination. So his son got a?beer?named after him. But he was a pretty strong guy. He basically told people in the new America they should stand up or just get it over with and put the shackles on.It will be very hard to convince them. I have a BA I got years ago-useless. I had several jobs, but not a career. Luckily, I paid for that BA with scholarships and grants, bc I am a nerd,lol. It was a bad decision, which I know now, but I went right to?college?at 18. I never thought about the JOBS/CAREER I could get, I was focused on getting the degree. Because everyone said, "you must have the degree." If someone had tried to talk me out of it, I would NOT have listened.I thought I would never make a living if I did not go to college. HAHAHAHA! Joke is on me. Because today, I know more people without degrees, who are making great salaries in jobs they love. Some of them never set foot in college, some went the trade route. I have talked to friends and colleagues over the years and they agree with me-college was a waste for many of us. Not so much college, but the useless degrees. MANY of these BAs today are a joke, as we all know.Now, I have a Masters and major debt. I was stuck with the BA. My entire class was in the same boat. I looked into other areas, but nothing seemed right. I have a chronic illness, too, so I had to match my training to that. If I can ever get another job, and get more experience, I will do ok. But, I will probably never make as much as the people I wrote about above. I love this field, so I will be happy with the career. Now, though, I am sick over the loan.It is frustrating, but no one understands this until they live it. My husband's nephew is going for a BA in English Lit. I tried to NICELY warn him, but he says he is "going to make a fortune." When he graduates, and finds no jobs, or low-paying jobs that have nothing to do with the degree, he will see. Until then, he thinks he is on track to?financialindependence. I hope he is, but really..Nope, nothing guarantees work. Everything is starting to get flooded. People going to college do not see this. They see "job shortages" articles or listen to bad advice from friends and family. I am hearing that many nurses here are having a terrible time finding?full time, permanent work. There is also a ridiculous myth that we need teachers-that is so far from the truth. The schools are flooded with resumes.They need to have better standards for getting a BA-they are giving too many of them out. People are NOT earning them, or cannot, and they are being pushed through. Not everyone is college material, but society is saying you must go. Now, it has become a joke, esp. when you see ads for receptionists demanding a BA. The employers know it is a joke.I think everything is basically saturated. Anywhere there were jobs, the schools pushed people into the openings. And our?government?keeps encouraging people to come here to work and get visas. We are being pushed out.Hi guys...I just read pretty much this entire thread. Interesting stuff. I hope you don't mind if I chime in.As my name implies, I work for Aflac. I'm not an employee, but rather a 10-99, commmission-only agent. I started in 2001, and have been moderately successful. I'm not rich, but I"m not dirt poor. Luckily, I get renewals from policies I previously sold, so I get a monthly check. The problem is, I never know how much its going to be...some months its very good, others not so much. i still have to go out and open up new accounts and sell?insurance?policies to make commissions.There is no base salary and NO benefits. The latter is killing me financially. I voted for Obama, but when he talks about about how his?administration?has cut?health?insurance costs by $2500 a year per family I wonder who the hell he is talking about. My husband and I (he is an independent insurance agent too---long story) have to pay for Blue Cross directly (they are the only insurance company that will cover us.) and even with a $2000 deductible, $4000 max per family, the monthly bill is $1400. That is more than my mortgage!To everyone on here who is struggling with finding a job, I really feel for you. It's hard out there. I have a daughter who graduated 2 years ago with a BA in psychology. She applied to 9 different grad schools and was promptly rejected by every one. $3K in application fees right down the toilet. The only job she could find was working in a mental?hospital,?3rd shift. It paid $11 an hour. The 2nd week on the job she was assaulted by a patient. How she didn't walk out, I'll never know.She kept that job for 2 years and I watched as she slowly unraveled...emotionally, physcially, and spiritually. It was as it the long hard hours and low pay just sucked the life out of her. She was expected to work 12 hour shifts, but she couldn't punch out until the next person came on. continued...Last Christmas she worked 52 hours in 3 days. Something in her snapped, (thank GOD) and she turned in her resignation. Came home (New England) and started another job search. She lucked out and found a job in medical research that pays a little better than the mental?hospital. She lives with us (myself and my husband; her step-dad). She helps us with monthly expenses, and she just bought a car with a loan. I keep reminding her of how LUCKY she is to have found something so soon. When the going gets rough at work, I tell her to remember that she might not be so lucky the next time...Okay, enough of my personal stuff. I have a question to the good folks on here who are still looking for work: Have you considered starting your own?business? I'm not recruiting forinsurance...I mean something like: house-cleaning, car detailing, a dog-sitting/walking service, or PCA (personal care?assistant)? There are still plenty of rich people who have never picked up a mop and they'll gladly hire someone to clean their house. The other area that seems to always have opportunities is the PCA. Lots of elderly folks who need baby-sitting. I have a friend who is 53, recently divorced, and she did this for a year (2011.) At first she went thru an agency; then on her own. She always had work. Pay was $11-$20/hour depending on how wealthy the family was. She went to school for phlebotomy at the same time. Now she's certified and doing per diem work, drawing blood and other medical tests. Started out very low paying, but as your experience mounts, your hourly rate goes up. She often has to travel long distances for jobs...1-3 hours each way, but gets reimbursed for mileage.Just some ideas...I'm really scared for this country. I've never seen it this bad, and I remember double-digit inflation and gas lines from the 1970s. My father always used to say "remember: democracy is an experiment."I can certainly feel your frustration, trust me! I have not had to move back home (at least yet), but I can not imagine my folks and me living together at this point.Thankfully, my folks do understand that this is not their job market. Not even the Great Depression's job market. They understand this because they make an effort to stay informed. Wall Street Journal as well as other sources I'm sure.I have asked my mother about how her father dealt during The Great Depression. After a point (a few years I think), there were apparently jobs available. Manufacturing (which are now overseas), Shipbuilding (WW II), that sort of thing. Jobs that simply do not exist in this country any more. Farmed out to the lowest overseas bidder (company).Part of the problem there is that they are listening to the news. I have no idea other than its election time why they are sugar coating all this. Your parents see unemployment down and think whats wrong you cant find something.Most of them don't want to know. A lot of people have been working the same jobs for 20+ years and all they want to know about is vacations, shopping, new homes. They live in a bubble, and they don't care to know that the world has changed since they once looked for a job. They think you still keep calling an employer to let them know how interested you are.It is truly "willful ignorance" on their part. When someone they know and trust, like some of these younger people who try to tell their parents...and they don't listen, it's willful ignorance. They don't even trust that person enough to even believe they are credible.Instead, they believe the MSM, the "news", CNN...they believe that bunk. They believe in "positive thinking" and that if you just think hard enough, you'll land a job. It is truly something from childhood, this fantasizing.I can't believe that the parents of the people posting on here, who live with them and are looking for jobs, don't know of someone themselves who lost a job and can't get back into one. It's so prevalent now.When the economy collapses and the dollar is worthless, they too, will become affected. Those of us who do find jobs know it may not last, and to live in a survival mode and save every penny, and watch what is going on.Not so surprising considering each of these news channels or news sites are either backed by republicans or Democrats. Each party has their own agenda and sublimely want to promote their chosen candidate. I doubt there are many undecided voters anymore. It will come down to how many actually come out to vote.Many have already "voted" - with their dollars. This Presidential election will be the costliest on record. Whoever wins, will be writing a lot of Thank You cards and owing a lot of favors.Yes, it is the same "song n dance" every 4 years, and doesn't matter who gets in. Just musical chairs, and theatrics to make the American people think they have the power to elect their leaders. Technically, presidents aren't supposed to have all this power anyway.Politicians are bought and sold, and they aren't bought and sold by the American taxpayers.I don't believe we vote them in, I believe they are appointed. Those who have power and money just aren't going to let the American people have that power.The free market is no longer. The?government?needs to give?business?tax cuts and other incentives to be in America. Incentives they cannot afford to turn down.If they have businesses here, they should not be allowed to hire illegals of any kind. The tax cuts must benefit Americans.Someone mentioned Department of?Labor?, those are a bunch of morons I will not spend time with.And your right the people at the Dept of?Labor?are useless and the best part is that WE pay for that!The debate is bringing nothing new. Talk of the economy. Romney bothers me with his talk of jobs and the unemployed. How can he even do this when his companies have been responsible for closing down factories, putting thousands out of work and shipping those jobs overseas? He is the king of outsourcing.Ready to get the election over so we can focus. Focus on the country, not on getting reelected or elected.People become Professors because in the private sector it is about accountability.I had Professors who pretty much did the sleep walk thing in while teaching class. They could because there is no accountability.Summers off if they want, pension, great medical...And EVEN when you get your next job, you cannot become too complacent. You actually need to start looking for the job after that.After two downsizes and one terminations, I learned this the hard way. If you aren't (quietly) looking, you are not safe! No job is forever anymore.Many (a large percentage) of new businesses fail during good economies, even more fail during one like this.We have many of the same issues now as existed during the Great Depression. The primary difference is that it's "hidden" to a large degree now. When I have asked at food banks, attendance of people needing help has increased dramatically during this "recession". Food stamps are available now (doubt they were thought of back in the '30s). Government food is distributed differently now than in the '30s.Notice how things go up even when the working peoples wages are flat. Taxes, gas just goes up 20 cents overnight, vehicle licences & fees, utilities, school fees,?grocery?prices when crops have a bad year, the package size gets smaller, yet the price goes up. Cities cry that the sales tax funds are going down, people just can't buy things so it means less tax money, guess they need to put another red light or speed camera up.You are so right!Something that has always bothered me. I have family/friends who have?government?jobs and are in a management role. At the end of the fiscal year if they are under budget they go out and spend like crazy and buy frivolous things. Instead of being rewarded for spending less throughout the year, they are forced to use up the extra money so they will get the same or more amount for the coming year. This is a big problem with our government and being wasteful with the taxpayers money. :(I've heard California is pretty bad. There are too many people and too many illegals. I don't want to get into a politics war, but having so many people willing to work for nothing with no benefits doesn't do us unemployed citizens any good.When you dont have to turn a profit like govt there is never any accountability and that is why we are heading toward Greece. This is a great thread.Also, look at the newer occupations that didn't Unionize. In the IT?business, if you hit 40, you're sh----t out of luck. The companies will hire foreigners. It would have been good ground for unionizing if as part of membership, educational goals were directed to keeping worker skills current, a decent wage was demanded and they had the power to block?hiring?foreigners.Don't we wonder why immigrants are still flooding our shores despite the professed?development?in other countries? Oh, I don't know, maybe because companies who set up overseas skirt taxes, provide lousy working conditions, piss all over the country with unregulated waste....Companies are running to the?bank?with all that they have exploited with foreign?labor. But when does consumer spending grind to a halt and companies no longer have a base to sell their wares to?That is not something I will ever support. No other job, except being a big fat politician, will give you a benefit that you can never lose, no matter what kind of job you do.Personally, I would support nationalized care. Take this mess out of the hands of big?insurance. Make it easy. It works in other civilized nations. Nothing is perfect, but what we have now is not working and hasn't for a long time unless you are part of a lucky group that still has a?full timejob with benefits.That is my main problem. No incentive for high performance at that point. My sister-in-law?is a teacher and has flat out admitted that she will only do the bare minimum required of her because she is over it. She is there for the benefits.I am already preparing for how I can supplement theeducation?for my kiddos to overcome the inevitable lazy teacher they will come across. No sense doing the helicopter parent thing and fighting with the schools on this; the unions protect the mediocre.I think this says it all , VOTE?DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano announced this week that 200,000 illegal aliens have applied for the?Administration's Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program that grants a temporary amnesty and the possibility of a work permit to illegal aliens who claim they were brought to the U.S. at a young age. She also said that more than 3,000 illegal aliens are filing new applications each day.?!Despite numerous attempts by both House and Senate leaders to learn more about how DACA decisions are made and exactly how many individuals are at each stage of the process, DHS officials have been less than eager to release the information.Politics. It's already on every media outlet. Why doesn't this guy go on TV and talk about the economy over the last four years in real terms (and not this "I created 5 million jobs" nonsense)?Your choices are basically "bankrupt the country by giving every last sob story with a toothache?governmentassistance" (democrats) or "cut as much funding as possible to as many social service programs as possible, and create a society in which a few people have a lot of money, and a lot of people have none." (republicans)Thats so you will go to school to be one of those! Dont understand all the hype about going to school when theres no jobs! As long as the "Corporate Tax-Break Economy", which robs the US of billions of dollars a year, stays in place and continues to grow, big companies will not care.Ergo, folks like us and small?business?owners without connections to the?government?mob bosses increasingly have to shoulder larger "revenue" (aka tax) burdens.Just read the headline "1 out of 4 Americans employed work in jobs that pay less than $10 an hour."Let's just fall off the fiscal cliff already.I think Americans born here agree wholeheartedly. More and more job postings I'm seeing?bilingual?required. Warehouse management I've noticed is one cause most of the warehouse pickers are now spanish.Months ago a sales job was posted in the same industry as my last job and they required bilingual.Joe, I know. ~???? all jobs in medical offices want Spanish speaking. You notice how many say "preferred." Some can't put "only" so they say preferred. I know what it means, though. I just skip over that job and won't apply.I got to tell you; the Latino and Hispanics born here are very cool. They all speak good English and are good co-workers. I've had good supervisors and colleagues who came here as very small?children. I think the ones who are here illegally (and who keep keeping), are gaming the system are the problem.I am cool with anyone who pays their taxes and knows enough English to answer the phone or make it across the street. ;)I hate my retail job and I haven't even started.Job fairs for retail is a really bad sign for the country's future. Retail should never be a job that merits and organized job show. The thought actually makes me sick. Dressing up fancy with your resumes for a part-time/seasonal/minimum wage retail job. Good lord.They say that for the last several decades that the US is heading away from manufacturing and toward a more service industry country. More jobs they say. Unfortunately those 'more jobs' will be in retail and such which are lower paying jobs. Middle class is disappearing. Pretty soon we will either be classified as rich or poor. The rich will get richer since our tax code favors them and the poor will get poorer. Hippee. So why the push for moreeducation? I promise u it does not take a?college?graduate to say "would u like that meal super-sized?"My parents are both college educated so they pushed me really hard to go to college. I was an extremely good student because I wanted to get a good job when I graduated. I worked my butt of so I wouldn't be in this position I'm in now. Now I'm realizing that Bachelor degrees are starting to replace high school diplomas. Everyone wants a bachelors but wants to pay 10 bucks an hour. Frighteningly, this is becoming the norm.I wish I hadn't gone to college, at least not when I did. I graduated at the worst possible time. A time where most people still think a bachelors degree guarantees success when in reality it doesn't. I'm glad I know now, but its sad to see so many people attending college hoping to better their lives only to be left with a pile of debt and discouragement.Its sad, but thats where I am at too. Really, we need a brand new economic structure now, because the present one is not sustainable. I mean, 15 or 20 years ago, going to college was a great choice, but now its just insane. I mean, I think high schools should be revamped, since that is where you really make the choice whether or not to go to college. I mean, there should be designated career tracks from there. I mean, even my friend who's anaccounting?graduate can't find a job. She works as a?cashier?at Wal Mart and I have to repeatedly talk her off the ledge about going to school for four years of her life, studying and slaving over logarithms and Algebraic equations to graduate cum laude only to work as a Wal Mart Cashier. Its just hell. We need a big and brand new economy. Thats just the fact.I agree, and I doubt it's coming anytime soon. Something really bad will have to happen before politicians and corporations finally get a clue. Our jobs are being sent overseas faster and faster. Jobs that my parents encouraged me to apply for don't exist anymore. It's a sad situation we're living in. I'm trying to encourage my brothers who are about to graduate from high school not go to college. They keep telling me they'll go into fields that are 'high-demand' like the medical field. Hate to break it to you guys but even nurses aren't guaranteed a job.Well, I'm glad its not just me. They ALL want experience, but who the hell comes out of?college?with the experience they want?! Its basically them setting parameters no college grad can meet. They know this.Really, what is one supposed to make of these numbers? Everyone knows the jobs being "created" are of the part-time and low paying variety. The good jobs haven't come back yet.Exactly. They just throw numbers at us without much of any explanation. The article I found claimed that many of the jobs created were retail and service. Also some?government.No answers really, just more questions.I was just coming here to tell you all that we have this huge increase in jobs. Have you heard the good news? LOL Yeah, I don't see it either.Someone just posted on their FB page that the job report is so much better than it was 4 years ago. Like it is so much better now. I asked her where all these jobs are, because I haven't found anything to send a resume to in the last 2 months. It has to be those imaginary jobs that Obama keeps talking about. I wonder how I can apply to an invisible job. Anybody have some invisible potion I can take?It was one of those dumb political images that people like to post on Facebook. Some crap about job growth under Obamessiah. People that post that junk on Facebook or anywhere need to be ready for the criticism that is sure to follow. I'll believe there are jobs when I see it. Until then, it's all talk and BS numbers.It seems to me, that unless you have the training of a lawyer or researcher, it is extremely difficult to find out the facts. I want to make intelligent choices, but it seems that everyone who runs for office, even if they start with good intentions, usually have to yield to self interest or they won't make it.My father said this forty years ago. He said that there was the "ballot vote" and then there was the "dollar vote". Don't confuse the two. You don't bite the hand that gets you elected.I can really see your father's point. I want to vote, just to have my little "say" (which I know is pointless), but wonder if actually not voting would be better. It doesn't feel like a democracy. How can it be when billions are paid for ads, when the average person is bombarded with half truths (really lies), not to mention the outright slander (Libel, when its written)I'm seeing on these ads. I'm waiting for a candidate to win a?law?suite.The BLS is just one of over 300?Federal?agencies run by appontees - none of which you get to vote for. Do you think those people got those positions by answering an ad on Indeed? LOL!So roughly 160k to 170k jobs were created during a particular time frame. I do not recall hearing how many jobs were Lost during the same time frame due to layoffs/ companies closings etc. I rarely hear exactly where the new jobs have been created either. Retail? Part time? Low pay (not enough to support a single person or family on)? Manufacturing??Engineering? Quite a few "minor" details are left out which practically makes the?data?useless....The number of jobs lost and population growth are things the O?Administration?doesn't want to talk about. That's how they get the BS that he's "created" 5 million jobs. It doesn't take into consideration job loss or population growth. Or the types of new jobs, for that matter. I don't know how any of you without jobs vote for this man again. It boggles the mind.Well, the word "socialism" became a pejorative for ideas I don't like. You hear conservative minded people saying we can solve the problem by stopping spending. The problem is, is that we have a massive debt and a huge deficit, which we have to turn into a surplus. You can stop spending money if you want to, but that debt won't be paid. You need revenue to pay down that debt, by taking more money in than we put out and were a nation of 310 Million plus people. We can cut alot, but its gonna effect us all and try explaining to a long term unemployed person why their tax?credit, tax cut, tax benefit is gone this year. So, we do need to start getting revenue mostly by us creating stuff.The truth is, is that we need to build a brand new economy and slow outsourcing of jobs from this country. Andinvestment?in new technology is what we are gonna have to do. Hell, look at the tech boom in the 90's. That was from new?computer?technology made here.So you're going to go with a guy who has presided over this economy and has "created 5 million" IMAGINARY jobs? Tell you what, if you or I performed this badly in any job for four months we'd be fired. This nonsense about it taking longer than four years to fix things is pure bunk.I see the liberals have been busy flagging. So, you're cool with the economy as is, you're going to sleep walk through it and punch the incumbent for re-election and you're going to burn books? Wow. I'm getting ready for a LOT of whining on Tuesday?evening?coming from the left. I expect chatter about the economy to RAMP UP big time effective January 20.Yes, it would be nice if both sides actually worked for the betterment of the country instead of their own agendas. I personally don't hold much hope for them doing so, I hope they surprise me.OK...NOT trying to start a political debate, but is anyone hearing about the Obamacare issue where people working part time have to go down to 28 hours a week or less-not in all businesses, but a lot? Or, is this old news? It's been a hot topic the past couple of days around here-several of my friends and family are talking about it, on Facebook and via phone. If what I am hearing is true, I understand why I am seeing a lot of part time jobs. I don't pretend to understand all of this.Employers are bound and determined NOT to pay ourhealthcare. So what are they going to do? Make a bunch of part time jobs that's what. Being the gov knows this thats why they are putting a cap on part time hrs. Im seeing a ton of part time jobs for awhile now. I cannot afford to work part time. Keep in mind in most cases you CANNOT combine 2 part time jobs together. If either employer knows about the other you dont get the job. Been there done that and it dont work. The gov knows thats a loop hole to get outta paying the?health care.What I am hearing is that companies with over 50 people will most likely be scheduling part time workers at 28 hours-probably less. Apparently, anything over 30 hours is considered full-time with Obamacare. So, the employers would rather have more pt people, rather than paying people who are working over 30 hours health insurance.So, it is a question of employers paying for?healthcare?or cutting hours. So, they are going to cut hours. The result will be more people being hired, but only part time. There are a lot of people working 30-under 40 hours now who are going to be down to a lot less or will lose their jobs. I happen to know several now who are very upset, as they have been told they will be down to less less hours.Again, I do not understand all of it, but this is most likely going to affect a lot of places, esp. retail. This is supposed to start in January.I did Google. I am actually very good at research, but there is A LOT of info. on this. What I do think is a lot of people do not realize what is going to happen.I think it is going to be A LOT of employers, not just some.I am all for people being provided with affordablehealthcare...BUT for people who deserve it, NOT people who expect the system to take care of them. That is a whole other issue. When I get back to work some day (soon I hope), I will be working with a painful chronic illness. Because I believe in working and supporting myself. Yet, so many others sit home and expect the system to take of them. There are so many who are totally able to work, but collect welfare and other benefits and it makes me sick. They have never worked or barely worked, CAN work, and refuse to even apply for work.My husband's?insurance?costs are going to skyrocket-the bosses already had a meeting about this. But, my stepson, and the MANY other people like him, who refuse to work when they are able to, will now have healthcare, but not with the costs my husband has to pay.The system is broken. I want people who need it to have it, but there has to be a way to fix it somehow so that the scammers (for lack of a better world) cannot get benefits.I think our country is in more trouble than we may realize.Like a cartoon....picture a snowball going down a hill. As it goes further down the hill it gets faster and larger. It cannot be stopped, it just rolls over anything that gets in it's way. That's America now. These so called "entitlements" cannot be stopped now. 30 years from now we will be Greece.Just go to your Dept of?Labor?office...two many workers doing nothing with excellent benefits. They hire people there because it's in the budget not because they really need those extra people.All I can do is get a good paying job and save or find a rich girl.Big trouble. Most of us won't be here when it hits the fan but this is what some experts predict:If you think you are having a hard time now, it will be nothing compared to entering the workforce, twenty years from now. You will be sweatshop?labor?because by then all the inheritance money will be gone. You will HAVE to take that job painting funny faces on adult sex toys. Are you listeing Joe! Heh!Second, by 2035 Social Security will be broke. It is bleeding out faster than ever. More people who are eligible for early Social Security at age 62 are taking it now!Finally, in 20 years, you will just as likely be working in Mumbai as in Milwaukee. That is where the jobs are likely to be.Fox News is practically shouting the end of the world from atop a box to anyone in the market who will listen. Someone needs to put those 24 hour news cycles from both sides to bed. They are a lot of the cause of the partisanship in ourgovernment. Remember the day where if you wanted to know what happened today, you tuned in at 5 or 6 in theevening?or read the newspaper to find out? It should still be like that. Filling a 20 hour cycle with talking heads and bs is no good for anybody.I've heard opinions and "facts" from people who would have neither, if they didn't hear it from some idiot on FOX/MSNBC while waiting for their coffee at Dunkin Donuts. Time for a simplification of the lifestyle.Let's pull all our troops out from everywhere that isn't a direct threat to us, also. Tired of spending lives, loot, and resources on countries that don't deserve our attention.Let's also severely trim down higher?education. Of the 4 years of undergrad, I'd say I had about 2 years of actual relevant courses. The pig fat that some of these places get away with for $40,000 a year is borderline criminal. No wonder we're slipping behind everyone else. Their companies train their workers for exactly the job that they'll be expected to do. They don't waste 30 credits on pottery making and basket-weaving.ng to be laying people off because of Obama winning the election. That's just great. Like we need less jobs in this country. Now I'm getting worried.A friend of ours was talking about this a month ago. Now look at how fast it's happening. I didn't think it was going to be this bad.What does everyone think about this?May or may not be true. I wouldn't be surprised if it were true.With the state of this country and the economy, it's just plain nuts that this guy was reelected basically on blind allegiance and cult of personality. People just simply don't give a damn about performance. It's all about personality and party affiliation. Kind of like getting a job. Really, nothing you've done matters. It's all about likeability.As for the media, we are living in a propaganda state. The internet is rife with it. The major news outlets spew liberal propaganda 24/7. In the last month before the election, the media was negative Romney 24/7 while Obama got a free ride on Benghazi and then Sandy.Really sad for this country right now. All of you who voted Obama who don't have jobs just voted for the status quo of no jobs. Great call.There was a meeting at my husband's job the other day. Supposedly, come January, they are going to make everyone who is part time/under 40 hours go down to less than 28 hours a week. Some will lose their jobs. It will probably be a lot less hours than that for those who stay. The reason is Obamacare---apparently 30 hours and over will be considered?full time?under Obamacare. So, rather than paying for?insurance?for these people, the company will make them work under 28 hours so they do not have to pay insurance. There are a lot of people who work with my husband who may work 35 hours one week, 29 the next etc. Now, they may be reduced to 15 or 20 hours, depending on how the company decides to schedule. Also, my husband's insurance is supposed to increase by $5000 per year-he will have to pay this.This is apparently supposed to happen with companies that have over 50 employees. If they have people working over 30 hours and do not pay insurance, they will be fined $2000 per employee, according to what I read. So, they are cutting hours to avoid paying insurance or the fines.I will keep you all posted if this happens. My husband said that it looks like it will.We need affordable?healthcare, but this seems like the wrong way to go about it. There is so much written about this on the Internet, but you have many differing opinions. Unfortunately, it does not look so good.Everything continues to escalate.?Food?and utilitys especially. Yet employers are trying to get away with paying people LESS. The boss's and managers arent getting less are they?It doesn't have to remain that way. It just tends to because it is the "accepted" way of doing things. It's possible that in some large and progressive organizations managers are trained in how to evaluate job applicants, but this never happened in the organizations that I worked for. So the manager just does whatever the other managers, including the one who hired them, did.Large and progressive belong in the same sentence like Eskimo and lawn bowling.Large bureaucracies are very slow to change. It is the smaller company that is "fleet of foot".in my pathetic job search foray on this site today after over a year of not looking online AT all, out of 250 office/clericaljobs posted in last 7 days 3 required Spanish, not bad. It is worse in the local paper, most med. office/CS/Front Deskjobs require it. I know this will be a prob. that will get worse in time as non spanish speakers become a minority, it's very close now, practically everyone takes it in HS I've read.Well an aquaintance just told me that the CT Forest & Parks Assoc. is now conducting hikes in spanish here in CT - OMG, it will be majority rules type of thing if more than 50% of those who show up to a group hike are spanish speakers they will conduct the hike in spanish, meaning the leader who must now be bi-lingual spanish will talk in spanish for the duration of the hike, NOT English!??Um what about the US born citizens who don't know spanish? THAT could be awkward I imagine, I don't do group hikes myself but Jesus. I may as well shoot myself now (if only I had a gun). I found that MORE disturbing than jobs requiring spanish, which I do find VERY disturbing. All kinds of orgs are just bending over backwards for these people, it sickens me to no end. That was one of the most shocking things I have heard about in a long time. This is CT (New England?) not AZ, TX or CA. Alls we need on the already way overcrowded trails are huge groups of 'spics, they are very group oriented and would bring their extended family/friends to these types of?events, prob. their grills and boom boxes too. Gaa.I just read yet ANOTHER shocking news report about spanish speakrs in my area. In the 2013-14 school yr. in mycommunity, the public schools were comprised of: whites (Non-spanish) @ 42%, latinos 40%, the rest was divided among Blacks and Asians who both speak English just fine and don't require/demand any special accommodation. When I went to school here it was like 95% whites/European descent. The change over the last 10-15 yrs. has been astronomical. No wonder I feel like "they" are taking over...I've said before when I look at the kids out at recess at the elementary school near where I live the VAST majority of kids look latino. I have no clue why this area is a hotbed of the latino population growth or maybe it's like this everywhere now? For some reason ALL the articles seem to think this is a wonderful thing, how we are among the most racially diverse communities in the State, but it's not really "diverse" if Blacks and Asians are a small minority compared to latinos. I have no idea who writes this stuff, whites of European descent are or are becoming a minority, whoo-hoo????If it were not for the language thing and the fact that State parks are over crowded thanks to "them" and their large groups I could not care less. My life IS impacted when I go to the beach to seek a quiet spot away from everyone and a huge group of them decides to play volleyball or soccer right where I am sitting as if I were not even there and they always have to bring their smelly grills and loud boomboxes and talk loudly in spanish, probably talking about the pathetic gringo all by herself for all I know!^ they are up here for jobs ANYONE can sposedly get like: lawncare/snow removal/restaurant/retail. NO shortage of these kinds of jobs. Also they have friends/family here AND it is likely known "down there" one can get by w/o speaking a lick of English and that the?City?has preached the virtues of "diversity" for yrs for some reason. I think it IS welcoming for those people to come here.They've completely taken over the downtown area to the pt. I feel strange walking down Main St. because NOBODY looks like me. Why the 1st of their kind came here to begin w, in the early 90's? well it WAS a nice place to live in, the economy has always been robust. I can't say anything bad about living here other than NOW there are simply too many people, it's expensive, and too many stores, a shopaholic would go insane. We are moving more towards urban vs. suburban living. There are also lots of small businesses, many of them come and go but some stick around.I'd pretty much guess they came here for the job opportunities and STAYED because they found a?communityof their own people & then keep inviting more and more. Also it's not just new arrivals but they tend to have large families.Last yr. my car was hit by a latino teen in the?library?pl,he wanted to take off but security stopped him. Well he didn't have a license or ANY ID on him, had to call his relatives, 4 of them came, and NONE spoke English (or ACTED like they didnt). one woman wanted some guy to fix my car but she couldn't communicate WHO he was. I ended up settling out of?insurance?and giving them the highest estimate. They met me one night in my PL, as I didn't in particular want them to know exactly where I live but they were an hour late (their GPS! had misdirected them). Then gave me a BLANK money order no name or signature on it, which I somehow got across to them they need to fill out to make it legit. Initially they wanted to give me cash like $500, I was like um a?bank?check be better.I'm Sorry for your troubles, and I want to give you my point of view about this.Us job seeker's are surely being discriminated against. But what do most politicians (nothing) do about anything?People need work to put?food?on the table, and most good employers who have jobs available understand that.Most normal employers don't care if you can speak Spanish or not. If your a good caring person a good employer, or professional will give you that job in a minute, and not try to create a problem or language barrier for you.Real Americans hire Americans! I don't think Employers, Politicians, or Judges should call themselves Americans if they don't hire one, or care about its people.Speaking of Kindergarten, I wish they told us the truth back then. That who you know will always be more important than what you know. That going to?college?is NOT always going to give you advantages over people who did not go. I know more people who did not go who have better jobs than the college grads. It is really hard to look at myself sometimes, being unemployed, with 50K in student loan debt, while watching family members and former co-workers earn close to or over 6 figures a year with no debt at all/no degrees. I have spoken with friends, family, and former colleagues who all agree---if we had to do it over, we would not have gone to college, or we would have waited and explored careers for awhile before getting useless degrees. I regret my BA, not my Masters, but I would have chosen a completely different path. When you are 18, and people say you must go to college, you believe them.I went to college because I was told that if I did not go, I would be working terrible jobs my whole life. It was not so much about an edge, but more like I would have security, whereas people who do not go are supposedly "stuck." What a lie! My BA was too?general, but I thought it would get me on track for a stable career at some point. My Master's is something I genuinely love doing, but I think I would have been happy doing other things.I know that people pursue their passions when they get degrees, but so many never realize the debt, frustration, and lack of jobs in general after they get the degrees. My cousin just had to relocate all the way across the country for a job he has been trying to find here for 5 years. He was not happy about it, as he is close to his family. But, he had no choice.It's the same in the tech world. The "unique ability" is the ability to get by on less money than it would take an American. The H1B program exists for the sole purpose of increasing the supply of engineers and IT workers anddriving?down salaries and other expenses (e.g., training) for employers. The US produces enough?engineeringand CS/CIS graduates to fill all the available positions.Not only is the US trending toward becoming a nation of haves and have-nots, it is also trending becoming a nation in which your success in life is primarily determined by the social class into which you were born. Social mobility in the US is below that of most other 1st world countries and falling.I'm at the Dept of?Labor.....someone really needs to throw a firecracker under these people a##ses. I want to see them in the private sector. LOL! It's reverse welfare.I can now honestly say that job searching on the internet has become obsolete. Never anything decent. Just like the job fair.Way too much of a hidden job market and as a result allot of people who get laid off will suffer.I agree. Online job ads have become such a joke.Meanwhile, I have been stumbling onto websites that are rolling out the red carpet for H1B Visa holders.The jobs I'm going after are out of reach for American Citizens.Hell, I have been thinking of impersonating a foreiger ==> get an H1B Visa ==> apply for job ==> get job ==> support my family.The H1B program exists exclusively to create an oversupply of engineers and IT workers, and therefore to hold down salaries and relieve companies of training expenses.Because I am an American citizen, LIFE costs more for me. It is far easier for H1B workers to slip through the cracks tax-wise, & shimmy their way out of paying their "fair share".Sweetie pie, oh how I wish things were as neat and simple as that.For example,?IBM?was on the hunt for IT Project Managers for an 18-month project. Some very specific skills were needed--Active Directory domain migration--which I happen to have.My brother was on great terms with the?account manager. When I heard what the rate was ($30/hr) I salivated and begged my brother to get me an interview. But no can do. The positions were reserved only for H1B Visa holders! I asked bro if he could pull strings, he said NO WAY.Point is, a job that is supposed to go to H1B is not fungible.The only reason that companies would have to hire H1B workers to survive is to compete with other companies that are lowering their costs by hiring H1B workers. Simply getting rid of the H1B program would keep the playing field level. Not that MicroSoft (the biggest US user of H1B workers) is exactly in danger of being driven out of?business.American corporations have been making huge profits the past few years. They are sitting on massive amounts of cash.The issue is that companies should have responsibilities to someone other than their shareholders. There's nothing wrong with an IT project manager in the US making the same as someone in that position in India, so long as the salary provides for the same standard of living, but it doesn't. Now, that person from India comes to work here, takes a huge raise to a level still below the prevailing wage for American workers in the same position, lives okay here for some time, and then can either decide to stay and displace the US worker permanently, or go home for a very inflated lifestyle on earned US wages. Meanwhile, the US worker isn't even allowed to compete for this job, because IBM is preferentially?hiring?H-1Bs for the position. if they do win the chance to compete, they are competing for a lower wage and a lower standard of living.Wages may need to reach an equilibrium at a global level, but it appears that the H-1B and similar programs are hastening the natural rate for this process to occur. Instead of inflation and rising standards of living across the world taking care of the problem by bringing the world out of poverty, we are seeing Americans being pushed toward the bottom. If you're?Chinese?or India, who cares? If you're the US?government, you should be looking out for your citizens.Unrestrained capitalism is likely why you don't have a job right now.Closed economies are bad, but mill towns where workers are required to buy from the company store, but aren't paid enough to do so and end up in debt to their employer aren't great either. We should be looking to moderate the effects of moving to a global economy, so that everyone gets there safely, not shooting a hole in the hot air balloon and offering to be the world's cushion.The author apparently ignored bigger numbers that are causing our woes. Big corps, especially pharma, redistributing their US profits to offshore offices, therefore not paying taxes here. $100's of Billions per year. Sometimes all they have are a PO box in Ireland.Or how about foreign guest workers hired as 1099 contractors? Does this guy really thinks that someone who can't read English is going to file a Schedule C, Self Employment tax form, and a 1040?The list of tax evaders and the techniques they use is extremely long. The amount of lost money from such sources far outweighs the pittance that seniors get.Thank you for the well-wishes. The position is low-paying but should cover groceries for the family. So I'm still looking...not that there's much of anything to apply to.The US tax code is such a big nightmare. There are not enough agents to even do half of what is required to?audit?the big corps.I just really resent the fact that each time I interview, I have to sit and be interrogated by multiple people, have them pick apart my experience and resume, and then I get to watch people being handed jobs. These people never even had to formally interview.You can see why many people would rather spend the time applying for some kind of permanent disability or welfare.I have a relative who did this. He just got fed up with the rigamarole. He resurrected an old high school football injury and found a shady doctor to certify him unable to work.Oh, he use to be a big Republican. He adores Obama now. Heh!You too. I don't think anyone of us has it easy : (...except the members of Congress and the company CEOs that still reward themselves after they slice their workforce in half.Its a joke. The wealthiest people (Congress) is going to vote YES, Tax us more! Not happening.I am from the old securities industry and back in my day, we had never heard of a?Credit?Data?Swap or a Collateralized Debt Obligation, etc. This was the slickest shell game ever.When I say, I still don't understand them, I am in good company. No Senator or Congressman does either and Wall St. knew they could pull this off. They knew that if they were wrong, the taxpayer would bail them out.If you're unemployed now, "The Looting of America" points directly at one of the root causes. What I don't understand is why more people haven;t gone to jail because of this.If something isn't changed, the middle class really will disappear. Employers are crying foul because of the high cost of medical?insurance. Funny, no one seems too angry with big insurance. Oh but that's right, they fund people's campaigns, so regardless of party affiliation, no one is going to go after the ones that put them in office. I just wish people would get angry and do something constructive to change things before we really dive deep into a depression. And the more people lose their homes, acquire hugecollege?loans that they can't pay back, and finally stop buying products, everyone will suffer.Thats exactly right. The electric co is going to pass the cost on to the consumer along with all the others. Things are going to skyrocket so bad its not funny. The?food?is too high now. Your going to work to have the gov take your money? How nice. We are taxed and taxed and taxed.All of this is being passed down to the very folks that cannot afford it and someone is walking away with billion dollar profits. Makes me sick!!!theres going to be 2 classes:?Rich?Poor?Thats it. I know which one Im in.I was just saying that tonight. I wonder how much they are telling us on the news is true being they lie so much about everything else. How much is BS just to make people think they are trying to come to an agreement. Co's are going to pass this cost onto the consumer whose pay ck is smaller.And just think of how many people can no longer get medical?insurance?if they do find employment. It's scary!!!You are not damaged goods. None of us are. No employer is going to tell you that you are damaged goods. All we can do is try to keep applying and that we will find something. The news lies. The unemployment rate is HIGH. We on this forum are not the only ones that cannot find a job.I think you will see Unemploymt number decrease because allot of people will be losing their benefits after Dec 2012 not because they found work.?That's right.And when I hear some blowhard politician talk about job creation, I want to scream. Any new job out there is probably part time, no benefits, and minimal wage. It's only going to get alot worse as companies decide to scale back their pay and benefits to their workers. I saw it in my own company before the big layoff came.In twenty years, they won't ask you to list all your past employers because it would take too long to read the list. My forecast is that in the future having to change jobs every 2 or 3 years will be the norm, even for "professionals".If you are a laid off Silicon Valley IT worker then your career is likely over due to H1B infestaion and offshoring.From reboot to?construction?boots. Silicon Valley laid off IT workers are getting into fights with illegal immigrants in theHome Depot?parking lot looking for construction work.H1Bs are work visas allowing high tech employers to displace American workers. It is similar to illegal immigrants coming over to the US looking for work.No more and No less.Terrible! I sure wish this is what people in politics would get passionate about, but that will never happen.?Last week only 5 angry people showed up at an opened meeting with county executives to discuss the big county tax hike. The masses are not angry enough yet.I think more and more states are letting pot be legalized so to make a nation of spaced-out citizens who won't realized how bad it really is.The expression 'Economic effect' has a very large umbrella. While I do think that the availability of qualified workers ready to work for a much smaller wage causes troubles in the situation regarding employment in the USA, I do not believe that the blame can easily be place on H1B immigrants. Perhaps those making?hiring?decisions have some responsibility in this matter? I believe some of them are USA citizens.You are correct. We export more jobs than we import. Some 10 million Americans already file taxes from foreign addresses. This is a fact not widely publicized.A few years ago, the top destination for US?collegegraduates was Dubai. Many American companies have send US workers off-shore.he logic on trickle-down is weird to me. Unless the increase in wealth comes out of nowhere, it means that the wealth must flow up from the lower and middle classes, get to the top, and then come back down by means of new jobs when the rich create new businesses. This seems very inefficient if the goal is to improve the lives of those below the rich. Just let them keep their money to begin with.In essence, it does come out of no where. I spend a dollar, then the person I spent the dollar with spends the dollar and so on and so forth.The theory that lower rates will lead to more spending is actually a very valid one. In essence, it's deficit spending, essentially what the stimulus did except a different format. The myth in the whole presidential debate wasn't whether we should have a stimulus, or a tax cut, we already had both and both parties were really proposing more of the same, the myth is that tax cuts pay for themselves. And the only fact I'm fairly certain of in that discussion is that virtually no economists today think that. It's a very select group who think that and they're highly politicized.The thing that should concern us as a country were the Bush years. In the years just prior to the great recession, with the low tax rates, the real estate boom, the war stimulus (and make no mistake defense spending is stimulus), the almost complete lack of regulation and keeping the war costs off the books, we still couldn't produce a balanced budget. That doesn't bode well.The retail jobs are on this same nightmare train. MUST have experience and an Associates. For min wage? PART TIME??It is insanity. They wonder why our student loan debt is off the charts. Well, tell me how to pay $50K back on $10 an hour. My classmates who knew people are making triple or more than that, so they will be fine. But, the rest of us will be paying until we die.And, then they wonder how people cannot get experience. HELLO! An associates is not needed to work most retail jobs. My job last year required a Master's and yes, some part of the job definitely used that training. But, the rest-you did not need that degree.Training is like a bad word these days. And as long as we have these ridiculous requirements, there will continue to be millions unemployed.And then there is the irony that I have lost 2 jobs recently to people who had NO experience. I have 3 years. So, what do these employers want?The only problem is that schools and hospitals don't create wealth. Schools and hospitals provide services. Services can only exploit existing wealth but cannot create any for themselves. Real wealth really comes from the primary sector. The Secondary sector turns that primary wealth into "finished" products. The service sector or tertiary sector was initially about finding new applications and efficiencies for the two mentioned sectors. That's what science and?engineering, is all about. But at this point, we've picked all the low-hanging fruit. We have found almost every way to exploit the wealth created at the primary sector and at secondary sector. The service sector , the sector that dominates the economy ,is primarily concerned with increasing consumption. Most people can't increasingly spend more every year, so?credit?has been made cheap so that more and more people can borrow to consume more goods, and more importantly, more services. The big picture is really ugly; more people consuming services that won't benefit them.?Healthcare?and?education(education and training are not the same thing.), in this regard, are no better than the?finance?industry. They are parasitic, in the United States.I saw a fascinating graph this morning. It showed that over the past 40 years, the amount of money paid in salaries in the US has decreased from 51 percent of the GDP to 44 percent of the GDP while corporate profits have increased from 5 percent of the GDP to 9 percent (meaning that 2/3 of the salary reduction is simply more profits for?business?owners and investors).Workers of the world, unite!I'm still trying to think about how I want to respond to many of the points your brought up, but I just wanted to refine what I said for you. (Also, if it helps, replace "school" with "college?or university.") If you drop a large institution into an area that wasn't otherwise served, you create a large multiplier effect on the economy, even if it isn't a "wealth creator." Constructor workers earn money while they build it, as do the employees that work at it, and managers that run it. These people spend much of their wages in the?community, at supermarkets, restaurants, gas stations, car dealers, and shopping malls. The employees of these establishments then spend their wages as well and taxes are collected along the way that go to employ police officers, firefighters, and infrastructure maintenance crews. This ripple continues to have an effect and is renewed each pay period. My point was just to contrast that to "money out of nowhere" (aka "stimulus") that wanes much more quickly. Because stimulus isn't refreshed, eventually the multiplier peters out.This is really an old story. The connection between a good?education?and a job job is really there any more. That was your parent's era.Another myth is that more education is the solution to fewer jobs. Ain't always so.Well,what is the solution?If the system has changed (from the job end), why are we still permitting schools to churn out graduates at regular rates? Old methods in a different market?So I'd be interested in hearing your ideas.We are still using a 1950's model in a 21st century world. My high school education better prepared me for the world of work much better than a high school grad today. I had a good job before I graduated and my brother and sister had good jobs, just after graduating high school. It wasn't operating the?french?fry machine either.Now you have PhDs living at home.I used to beat myself up for never getting a solid degree, even though I have taken?college?courses over the years. I must say, I realize that my ability to communicate and push myself hard in a job has served me as well as alot of my college educated peers. Most jobs that I have had, I was surrounded by co-workers that had degrees, earning no better than I.There is a place for college and getting a degree, but only for very specialized fields that absolutely require it. I would never encourage any young person coming out of high school to go rack up a tuition bill as large as my mortgage. Not in this economy anyway.Both my sister and I have college educations. My sister is a teacher and yet we talked her daughter out of college and into a real profession: hairstylist.Good move. She has never been laid off, never had a college loan, works 4 days a week and lives in a better house than her mother! She can read "Catcher in the Rye" on her own.At one time, any college degree would do but not anymore. Yes, Virginia, there are some worthless degrees out there.College?also needs to be looked at. There's something fundamentally broken when you are paying $100K for aneducation. We need to discover alternative approaches that cut back on that. When I was in college I barely talked to my professors. They could have given me a book, tested me on it, and in 90% of the cases I'd have been just as well off. You can't tell me it isn't the exact same thing in some of these expensive universities where there are 100's of students in a class. Yeah, the air that guy breaths is surely worth $2,000 when diluted amongst an auditorium.Then again, what does Anthony Robbins get for a seminar? What does a MCSE boot camp cost?you know what is upsetting in a way.news reports are coming out that jobless?claims?(29k) are down from last week. and they are saying cause economy is getting better.it's because extended unemployment benefits are running out this month not because economy has gotten better and people are finding jobs.next week people filing jobless claims again will go down by 25k alsoand the week after that it will go down significantly.?I have seen internships that want experience. I suppose they wanted the student to work for free as well.Entry level?used to mean that you didn't need experience. Now it just means someone with experience that wants to work for peanuts.It seems like some kind of sick joke, really.One thing that makes it even worse is the fact that you always hear that there are lots of unemployed people who have tons of experience. If this is the case then why are there so many jobs that require 3-5+ years of experience? The whole concept of "experience" has begun to piss me off. There is no way in hell someone who has been working at a job for one year is any more knowledgeable or efficient at the position than someone who's only been working at it for 6 months. It shouldn't even be?legal?to call a job 'entry?level' if it requires experience. Same with internships. I am totally fine with it saying 'junior' or something if it requires like 1-2 yrs of exp but entry level is just ridiculous.Nepotism is the way to get a job here. I do not have data, either, but having lost out multiple jobs to people with no experience, but with the right relatives/friends, I have seen it first hand. I watched it last year when people got hired for no reason other than who they knew. Almost every one of my family and friends who have jobs got them because of who they knew. These are high paying jobs with great benefits.There are laws here, for public service jobs, but there are ways to circumvent it if needed. People will do favors by hiring someone's relative or friend. Or, relatives are directly hired when laws do not apply. My ex had a?government?job and it was filled with people who had family members in the place. There was no direct supervision of relatives by relatives, though. I worked as an independent contractor for a local state office, and there were many family members there.I think where I live is particularly bad, but I have seen it for years. I think it is out of control now, but I do not see a way of fixing it. I do wish they had independent hiring committees for the public sector jobs, which would give people with no connections a fighting chance.I don't have a problem if a friend or relative gets hired. What I do have a problem with is if they aren't qualified...and we all know this happens allot.What I also have a prob with is if the job is posted and you do the preparing for the interview but they already pretty much hired a friend/relative. The job is posted purely to satisfy company policy and?federal?regulations.What stinks is that we see this kind of?hiring?more and more because of everyday layoffs and personally it hurts.The county?executive's daughter got a job last year asAssistant?Director?for the Office of Aging...69k a year and great benefits...she had the basic qualifications for the position, nothing facny.They interview 5 people. The other 4 people had no chance in helll. The thing about the job is I forget all the details but she can't be laid off something like that unless the county executive lays off his own daughter.Other news reports claimed that the kid had emotional issues and had to be home schooled. Don't know how true all that is either.I was not one who gave a "no" vote, but just my feeling that getting rid of guns isn't the answer. People will find other just as destructive ways of creating mayhem. Bombs can be made of readily available materials and can easily be way more destructive than guns. Just saying.....50 million other gun owners went to bed that very night and didn't kill anybody.Kids seem to be able to do all sorts of things under their parents noses without the "adult supervision" ever noticing. Certainly, some of the cases, the parents had no idea at all what the kids were up to.My primary thought is that guns, per se are not the root of the issue. As Blue points out, the vast majority of people who own guns are?law?abiding, emotionally stable people. The people who commit crimes such as mass shootings have something else going on in their lives. People who are bullied to the extreme, long term unemployed, the feeling of absolute powerlessness over one's own life and destiny (to me) has quite a bit to do with people "acting out".Perhaps we could look at why these people feel that shooting others is the only way to express themselves in a way that is heard. I am not entirely ready to say they are all significantly more emotionally disturbed than the rest of us. They likely feel ignored and unable to be heard.America is no longer the Land of Opportunity. In almost every other developed nation people have a better chance of advancing into a higher economic class than they do in the US. About the only developed country with a more rigid class structure is the UK.The question is whether a country in which what you can be is determined mainly by what your parents were can be competitive in a modern world. The UK has fallen behind countries with more social mobility. Will we be any different?Today's quiz question:Is this ad for a:?a) senior position?b) mid-career position?c)?entry-level postion?d) none of the above??Required Skills: The candidate must have experience with?Java?programming, databases, BSD or CentOS operating systems, and good oral and writtencommunication?skills. Candidate must be able to work independently as well as cooperatively, follow procedures, apply best practices, follow direction, and stay on task.Preferred Qualifications: Red Hat and Ubuntu systemadministration, Eclipse IDE, J2EE, Hibernate,?GoogleWeb Toolkit, Microsoft SharePoint administration, lightgraphics?manipulation, MySQL , Subversion, and Trac Wiki.The correct answer is d). This ad is for an?INTERNSHIP. Yes, even to do an internship you need have experience!!!The writing was on the wall about employers wanting you to be available for all shifts and days years ago.It keeps you enslaved to them at poor wages and you can't work another job to make ends meet.Forget it if you have?children. It puts you at a severe disadvantage now. You will never see your family.Yup... I owned my own business for years until the industry changed. I sent myself to school, took courses with my own hard earned money and took temp jobs to get my experience. I suffered layoffs because temp agencies don't exactly send you to the most stable companies to begin with. It doesn't seem to matter that I got hired as a permanent employee every time, even as the company itself was struggling. It doesn't seem to matter that I have always taken on more than what was required and that I met some really great people that recognized my efforts and promoted me.I truly wonder what employers want. I know I would hire a dozen of "me" if I was a boss. My work ethic and enthusiasm and skill set is not something I saw alot of on the jobs I worked at in the past, not to say there weren't some wonderful things to learn from some of my coworkers and managers. But I never just did my job to satisfy a quota. Doing a job and doing it really well, mattered to me. I always thought I could convey that fact and stay employed until I was ready to retire. Everything I used to believe is truly blown out the window now. The work world in America is forever changed and I wonder what will become of the great working class of educated and skilled people it once employed?i have read hundreds on online articles on long term unemployment and all are depressing and as you quoted.?also they are all outdated as there has NEVER been a time in recent US history when so many people have gone yrs. w/o work.I am currenly re-reading some old Calvin and Hobbes cartoons, it's the most my fried brain can handle anymore. Am sure the neighbors think I have lost it, shrieking with laughter from time to time, I'd forgotten how darn funny the little guy and his tiger buddy were, plus some of the panels remind me of me and my gang o Bears.?The yr. before last I read the Sword of Truth series, last yr. it was the Game of Thrones series, I find the Fantasy genre to be an excellent escape and i'd recommend those if that's your cup o tea but can't' think of anything motivational I have ever read, sometimes reading a memoir of someone who overcame adversity can be helpful too.Allot of horsesh#t here Herv. Crank up the hearing piece and get ready for me.First, does technology make for lay-offs? Yes your correct.But make no mistake about it the majority of lay-offs are happening because of greed and Wall St.Second, for the American worker it is easier said than done to train (while working and commuting daily) for other positions when that day comes and you are no longer needed. And, you don't know if after this training there will be another position somewhere for you.I do agree with your statement pertaining to personal development. Basically nowadays you have to kiss all the bosses a$$e$ and play the game of politics at work better than the next guy in the room.Layoffs are destroying people's lives even the best prepared person. 9 times out of 10 what I see happening allot is a person making 80k gets laid off after 15 yrs than after a year finds another job only able to make 45k. More and more of these good people will need some sort of govt assistance when they get set to retired because of inadequate funds.And because they aren't paying into Social Security when they are unemployed, their Social Security benefits will be reduced.I have said this before. If nothing changes, Social Security will be broke by 2030. This is not even in dispute anymore.It won't be broke. The savings?account?will be emptied and it will not take in as much in taxes as it is supposed to be paying out. The problem can be solved by either raising taxes or lowering benefits.I don't know why people are saying the unemployment rate is improving and 2013 looks good, but I just heard that on tv. I switched channels.People just have no clue. I really do think they feel there is something wrong with us, the unemployed. My friend is also unemployed, and her niece wants to go tocollege?next year to become an?Art teacher. That is an exceptionally hard job to find around here, no matter how good you are. My friend told her niece this, and explained that connections are more important than your talents, sadly. But, my friend's mom (the grandmom) had a fit, and said my friend should not be "destroying her niece's dreams." My friend is trying to steer her in the right direction.It amazes me that with all these people with degrees who are out of work or underemployed, that society still pushes college as a MUST. I have another friend whose daughter is majoring in psychology. She expects to earn a ton of money with her BA. That degree alone is worth nothing around here.And of course, no jobs to apply to, which is no surprise.Sighing,I can't think of any other area/subject like the "unemployed in America" that people are so misinformed about. I keep saying that it just totally amazes me. No one has a clue but us the unemployed/underemployed.People do think there is something wrong with us or that we are doing something wrong.WE ARE ACTUALLY NO DIFFERENT THAN THE PEOPLE WHO ARE EMPLOYED. WE HAVE OUT STRENGTHS, WEAKNESSES, FEARS, DREAMS, BAD HABITS, GOOD HABITS, PROBLEMS WITH OUTCHILDREN, OUR BLOOD IS RED ALSO, ETC.... THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT WE ARE UNEMPLOYED.Well, some people still have money. I was selling $24.99/lb scallops and 27.99 Sea bass today like it was the last such on earth. My store will easily hit 300K just today. Probably the same tomorrow.That being said, when 22000 people apply to 300 positions, that doesn't mark the start of an economic recovery. I don't need any degree in anything, to know that.This is the new normal in America. 10-15 percent will live comfortably and the overwhelming majority will struggle to get by. At least until the wealth start to trickle down.5 yrs from now nothing good will be on the job sites, it will be just like looking thru your local newspaper help wanted section.That's when only networking and agencies will land a person a job. And try dealing with an employment agency, good luck with them.I was talking to a recruiter awhile back and she said when Monster, CB, and others first came out the thinking was that they were going to replace recruiters/agencies. Never happen. And Linkedln will soon be a fad also. Right now it's mostly a popularity contest!Yes, job searching is definitely absurd. Even a lot of minimum wage jobs now have crappy online job terminals with a 5-6 page personality test that asks the same few questions in multiple different ways.It's definitely easier if you have open availability, though.True. But is that really all that we were meant to do in life - just pay bills until we retire, or maybe even until we die? Because that seems like what is happening. It's not just "pay the bills until someday you don't have to"; indeed, many Americans seem to just be drowned in debt and bills and stuff - and it seems like such a miserable, "absurd" existence. And I don't like Camus' or Nagel's responses to it either - "shake your fist at it in scorn", or "laugh in it's face, because it's hilariously ironic". I think that, like Aristotle wrote, we should simply find our purpose, or "Telos", in life and do that. Mine is being a musician, and if I can find a satisfying niche in the musical world, I feel like life will be less absurd for me. "If it pays the bills, it is not absurd" doesn't seem to make it any less absurd - ironically it just makes it sound?more?absurd. Thanks for the feedback, though, I really appreciate it. It's nice just to hear back from people.Much of human existence is absurd, but it's generally us artists who see that absurdity for what it is and create a life for ourselves around it. Of course, we have bills to pay too, but we don't see that as the purpose of life. Writers like Kafka, Gombrowicz and Bulgakov (to name but three) took the grinding absurdity that surrounded them and transformed it into elevating works of art.?Why do people with Aspergers have trouble finding jobs?1) Awkwardness/uniqueness: Most of us Aspies are too awkward/unique for our own good. This is what makes us hard to make bonds and socialize, it also makes us unappealing to interviewing employers.?2) Misreading/sensitivity: We are very sensitive, which means the slightest thing can bother us, causing us to quickly unravel. The slightest bother in an interview can unnerve us, causing us to fall apart in the interview (I've had this happen). Many of us are horrible at reading the appropriate subtext and context, causing us to miss the mark or not able to interpret the question properly (I've had this happen too).?3)Not able to do network and/or failing at it entirely: Today's world is becoming ever more focused on networking to get ahead, be it a good scholarship, school, interview and/or job. This puts people who are bad at socializing and/or incapable of socializing to any degree at a huge disadvantage.?4) The FINAL ASD BREAKDOWN (it's not exclusive to Aspies): This tends to happen in late High School, College (happened to me), early in career by age 30. This is result of struggling all of then your life with all the added stuff that affects people with ASDs, typically mental health. This final breakdown either leads to death in many cases or lasts up to a few years due to all the medications and stuff you go through to stabilize. The medication we are given has huge side effects that reek havoc on us, lasting up to years in our systems. If you are like me and went through the medications roulette, your breakdown was extended (me it was almost 5 years).?5) #5 goes with #4. Most of us who are Americans and/or from other countries who's governments and medical system accepted Autism and ASDs in the late 1970s and 1980s are now coming of AGE! This means there was very little research done on ASDs, which in turn lead to horrible view that we needed to be made normal by making it conform to social norms and proper socialization. This also means there is very little help for those transitioning to adulthood and/or graduating from college and finding jobs. Over the past few years there has been real movement in properly helping children with ASDs.Though the problem is none of it lasts post 18 in most U.S. states and countries, though the U.S. Government gives it to you until 22. Obviously if you hit that age, then you get cut off and are damned. You are lucky if you can find insurance who covers what you need at reasonable co-pays and deductibles. There is almost no help for those in most U.S. states, especially in adulthoodWith reasons 4 and 5, you have a gap in your skills and resume to explain for, which you aren't supposed to reveal medical circumstances in interviews, resumes, and on the job. Revealing the actual reasons, can lead to you being fired in many jobs or preventing interviews. This leaves you disadvantage.?6) the Great Recession wiped most internships, part time jobs, and full time work out in most countries. If you are in the U.S. you will know that we are in jobless recovery, with most jobs being created are low paying jobs. Canada is now in a heavy recession due to energy prices dropping. The Eurozone is having an uneven recovery. The UK is having a very turbulent recovery. Japan and South Korea are struggling to recover etc...?You want a part time job in most areas of the U.S., good luck! You are either too old, too overqualified, too young and/or too under qualified.?You want an internship you need to meet all the asinine requirements, including industry experience and required degrees. The problem here is you are not qualified enough for jobs that are supposed to be entering point for young people into the career world. You are also competing against career people in their late 20s, 30s and possibly in their 40s who are willing to take internships to get career positions.?You want an entry level position, is has even higher requirements than internships. They also expect you to know how to do the job without training and adjustment period. Thus most graduating college students aren't able to get these positions.?Also many know require masters degrees and other stuff as well.?7)You are competing against people in their late 20s, 30s and many in their 40s who are struggling to gain full time employment.?The official U.S. unemployment figures stands at 5.4%. This though obviously only counts 60,000 people who are surveyed. This also counts any job you've been paid for as employment.?It also counts anyone who has stopped looking for work for whatever reason that isn't being fired for laid off, as voluntarily exiting the job marketing and is not counted as unemployed.?If add all those who the U.S. BLS as voluntarily unemployed/, underemployed (less than 20 hours, who have steady job), and those who who are getting by week by week doing odd jobs/non steady unemployment??online application processes: Every company uses an online system for job posting and applications. They literally make you create an account, spend an hour or so entering your information, then do that again for the next company. They also scan your information for keywords and whatever else they are looking for. If the system matches up with you, you might get a call back.?Oh most employers are typically swamped with applications. In most cases HR has also been outsourced to an incompetent 3rd party, who if very lucky does the bare minimum. They do not understand anything other than the literal pages their business partners give them. They really do not understand the jobs or the companies they work with.?9) Fake postings: Many companies post jobs that they have no intention of filling by external candidates. They in many cases are hiring internally. They also do this in order to show the government there are no qualified applicants, which should allow them to import VISA holders from countries including India.?They are required by federal law to post these jobs.?It's bad enough being young and/or unemployed, but to have an ASD (or any disability for that matter) it makes it that much worse.I've decided to use my local state agency that is supposed to have a good career placement program for people with ASDs.?I can't deal with job hunting anymore.I'm in the same boat as you.I graduated with a Masters in IT Management (double bachelor's in MIS and Marketing)I also have three internships under my belt, one job, two clubs (one of which I was on the board and quite activity).?Right now the real unemployment rate is between 10%-15% in the U.S. as a whole, higher in most parts of the country.?Most entry level jobs still require 3-5 years of industry experience on top of certifications.Most internships now require at least 2+ years of experience and possibly certifications.?At least half of recent grads are in the position while being too experienced and educated to get retail and food services (me), with almost other half able to at least get retail and food service jobs.?It's an employers market still and the amount of decent paying jobs being added each month aren't many.?You list your volunteer experience, especially if it is field related as you would work experience.?It counts as long as it is related to your field, though it is still better than having nothing.?Also list the projects you've done while being in e join us in the unemployment/underemployment club!Thanks, but resume isn't the issue, since I've regularly been hit up because of it.?I also have made it to final rounds of interviewing as well, but told they were holding out for the perfect candidate and/or other asinine reasons such a lacking knowledge of proprietary software.?General Motors IT put it best... They want new hires who will hit the ground running and need no help adjusting to the job (e.g. they don't train and expect you to know everything day one).Having had to employ and manage many people in my career(s), I would suggest playing down (but not removing): college degrees, professional certificates and professional titles. Instead, in the current world economy, emphasize a functional resume or answer application questions functionally (??).I was always much more impressed with an applicant's knowledge and experience than degrees, certificates and titles. In a functional resume, it is expected that volunteer work, family work, church work, nonprofit work and professional internship work means much more to the hiring individual than it would seem. Focus on management or "people" skills. Businesses being what they are currently, most employers want to know how well an applicant can work with (or lead) others. Suddenly, all those high-school and college student group experiences become valuable. For older adults, all those community and church group experiences become valuable, too.Among applicants with ASD, consider whether or not, you should disclose on your resume. If you do, tie it into the skills that your intended employment needs ("As someone with a neurological disorder, I have learned well how to help other workers (or customers) who are disabled themselves" or "Having overcome many disability-related characteristics, I am able to adapt my experiences and skills quickly to fit many workplaces.") These kinds of statements always get the attention of the human-resources staffers who look for "team players."In the end, be a real human in the interview and not just a breathing version of the resume. Joke mildly if you can, talk about a sport you like, and have a couple of not-so-serious questions you want to ask the interviewer.I don't know anyone in my family, though I have asked and even though they work for big corporations and I have applied for them in the past, they are too high on the corporate ladder to help me (they are in managerial positions and I would realistically be applying to the lowest level such as store floor assistant).Secondly crappy jobs people seem to tell me to apply for such as fast-food places are always full up especially in my area. I also lack the communication skills so even if i were to apply, get the job, I wouldn't survive a day there.I'm frequently asked "do you know what job you are searching for?" and "do you need help finding jobs?", questions I can't answer because there isn't an answer, how can I apply for any job as I haven't had one before? They expect you to know everything about being in one.It had been slowly going this way since the mid 1990s and the financial crisis of 2008 and the recession it caused sped up the movement towards unpaid internships.?It's no big secret that companies regularly abuse the internship definition, in order to save money.In most parts of the country there is a glut of experienced and educated people between 20-40, who were in their careers are were laid off or lost their job due to outsourcing, downsizing, company going out of business etc.. during the past 8 years, that they were willing to compete with college and high school students for these internships.?Add a slow shaky recovery that we are in to the mix, the job market hasn't rebounded to pre 2008 levels yet.This is due to companies being very conservative with hiring, due to the lack of economic activity on the consumer end.?Consumers on the other hand, haven't come roaring back with spending due to them facing employment insecurity.?Companies have been hell bent on cutting costs to the extreme to appease their shareholders by cutting the payrolls to the bare minimum in many cases.?The company who you are interviewing with has the right to determine what they perceive as "real" and/or "necessary".It is literally an employers market right now!Hell I've seen postings for internships asking for masters or higher.?As for abusing the internship abuse, the number of lawsuits and EEOC filings are on the rise from interns who are out right fighting them. Though if you do sue for they find out you filed the complaint with the EEOC and Department of Labor, you will probably be blacklisted in the industry and not get hired as a result (not legal, but the proof is on the person).?Yes right now young people in many countries including the U.S., are in the catch-22!They cannot get the necessary experience, because you don't have the experience to get the job.?Hell young people are still competing in many areas for low end jobs with their older counterparts and losing out.?McDonald's would rather hire a 40+ year old instead of teen or 20 something, because the 40+ year old will stay at the job longer if not permanently. Fast Food and retail are hell bent on reducing turn over.?Entry level is supposed to be entry level, but again with the glut of unemployed people across the board and companies not willing to take risks on unproven people it creates the paradox.?In my experience (including reading the job postings) 3-5+ of actual work experience on top of the necessary degrees.?-- As for college---As for college it depends on your degree, school, and professors.?It's literally the luck of the draw in many cases.?Since February of 2012, my history of job and internship searching, I have found that many if not most places ask for skills you haven't learned anywhere and don't want to train you.Like I've said in other threads, General Motors IT told me in the interview that they were only looking to hire people who could hit the ground running with no training for the job. But General Motors requires you to go to an 8 week course to learn GM history and culture!I applied at another small company which hit me up for the job as eLearning Developer. I would have been very good at the job cause it in my wheel house. But they told me, they were holding out for the PERFECT person, who knew their version of the softwares used and could do the job without training or adjustment.?WHY THE HELL DID YOU BOTHER TO HIT ME UP AFTER READING MY LINKEDIN PROFILE AND RESUME!(it still irks me).?This how nearly all of my interviews have gone...!I also went to an interview where the recruiter loved me, even though I explained it was damn near impossible to get the enterprise software experience while being a college student and working on a internship (the software is made by SAP, Oracle, some by Microsoft and analytics made by IBM) due to the sensitivity of the software to the business. Most people will never gain access to the software and only the use what is needed for their jobs. Oh it is also expensive to get ahold of that many medium sized companies and practically all small business never use any of it.?--As for your experience--It is very hard to get an IT job without the degree and sometimes the certifications, unless you know someone who is willing to get you the job.?In nearly all cases you need the degree and possibly certifications first just to be considered.In my dad's most recent case General Motors offered him an IT/engineering position in middle position (above standard employees but below high management).?When they found out he didn't complete college they withdrew the offer and told him it was due to the lack of the degree, despite my dad's 25+ years doing that type of job and software.Most industries require you to:A) be in related college program to get an internshipB) and graduate with said degree to be eligible for the entry level job.?It's IT, Marketing (all kinds), Accounting/Finance, Business, Engineering, etc...?As I've said, the U.S. and most developed economies are stuck in paradox, that is slowing the recovery.Businesses won't ramp up spending and hiring until consumers start spending at normal levels again.Consumers won't spend at normal levels again until businesses start ramping up hiring and raising wages.It should get better in the coming years, though it doesn't rectify the problem now!-- As for your Example--Apple is not a good example.?Most of Apple's work force is employed directly in U.S., be at their campus in Cupertino CA, retail, or building their computers. Hell even those building the glass for their devices and sensors are employed in the U.S.Apple by the end of 2016 will have all of its computers made in the U.S.Apple has talked about moving all of its products back to the U.S. for manufacturing and assembling.?Apple employs more Americans than all the other hardware makers in the PC and cell phone industries.?Though right now Foxconn has the contract to build iPhones and iPads.They also build Xboxs, PS4s, Nintendo products, most of the Android phones, etc...?Samsung, the biggest Android maker by far, is a better example.?Samsung has been busted in China and South Korea for essentially using the college internship system for unpaid labor.?Not to mention the horrible working conditions and long shifts.I have found all my jobs without a need for any technical skills or technical degree. I can't speak for people on visas but the fact of the matter is not everyone HAS to have technical skills. How about interpersonal, communication or leadership skills? For people who peruse the technical fields, good for them but I get frustrated because the media makes people feel like they are worthless if they don't have technical skills. I don't and I'm doing fine. People should get a job that tailors to their strengths, not what the media tells them they should do.I worked for 10 yrs in the?Insurance?Industry. I worked for 4 different companies during this time who all left California. I am now a 59 yr old woman. Previously I worked manufacturing, TRW?aerospace,?CPA, and finally insurance (Life). I was laid off 5 yrs ago. I helped care for a grandchild so my son wouldn't have to pay fordaycare?during the time I was on unemployment. I did go out on a few interviews but it was obvious people didn't want to hire some one my age and I was tired of the nasty politics and having to keep learning new systems and dealing with nasty people. Who I am most angry with is the?government. My parents were able to retire at 55. I don't mind working if people would hire us but let's face it, they want the younger people and I really don't blame them. We are expected to work until, I think, 67 and due to our?economics?now a lot of us have lost our savings and homes. I feel the government just wants us to die and go away. Mr B asked what we are doing to survive now. My youngest son and his family moved in with me. I am fortunate because the house I am in I have been renting for the past 20 yrs and the landlord has never raised the rent so I pay 630.00 a month. I also took my other sons advise and started caring for other people's?children. I am a part time nanny 24 hrs a week. 12.50 an hour. I also babysit evenings 15.00 an?hr?for one family and 10.00 an hour for another family. I should have done this years ago. I have kept physically fit and that helps. Funny I had a nightmare the other night that I was working in an insurance company.That is because you are applying for a job that prior to the last downsize was previously done by 3 other people. Been there. Be very careful here.Getting rid of 1,000 jobs and getting rid of 1,000 people are two entirely different conversations. The media reports this as being the same. Don't drink the Kook-Aid.If they weren't at home the would be living under a highway overpass. I would lets my kids come back home if they needed a rent free place to crash while they got their career on track.?I wonder what the unemployment rate is for?college?grads ?It's very high in my area. We've got so many unemployed grads here in Michigan it's scary.?There are so many young people in my boat. Desperate to get on with their lives and be responsible adults, but just cannot financially afford to support themselves. I hate that my parents have to support me. I'm an adult that should have moved out a long time ago. And yet, I still rely on them like a little kid. It's not good for me as an adult, and it's not good for them as parents of an adult child. It's a very frustrating situation.I think that there is the increasing expectation that people inengineering?or IT fields will have done 1 or more summer internships while in?college, so employers really do expect that the people they hire straight out of college will have real work experience. So, no, there aren't a lot of true?entry-level positions out there any longer.I know you're joking, but even?fast food?doesn't want to train anymore. I guess they have the cream of the crop now. Why train when you can hire someone who already knows what to do??A family friend of mine was rejected from a fast?food?place because she told them she had never "professionally" flipped a burger. Or "professionally" scooped fries into a container. So they passed on her. They didn't want to train her on how to flip burgers and scoop fries. If that's not insane, I don't know what is.We're living in scary times.My neighbor's grandson has tried several times to get a job at fast food places but so far, no luck.Some 2,000 people a day are applying for early SS. SS will be broke by 2030. That's what the experts say and this is not even in dispute anymore.Before the election, I read that in 1965 only 5% of the population was on any kind of gub'mint assistance. Today, it is 35%. Gonna be tough to get a fiscal conservative into the White House now.Supposedly, the Dems know who their candidate for 2016 is already. I though it might be Hillary but now I am not so sure.I'd say Hillary, though Bill may be too much baggage for her.Joe Biden could run; IMO he has actually been effective as veep. My wife thinks Obama is nominating John Kerry as SOS to position him to run. I don't think so; Kerry actually has substantial foreign policy experience. On the other hand, Obama risks losing a vote in the Senate by nominating Kerry.BTW anyone notice that Mitch McConnell sounds very much like Jimmy Stewart?My unemployment office doesn't even pretend to find you a job. They offer telephones and computers. This I have at home. When you ask the people working there questions they say they are not EDD but EDD rents the office from them. Also being in my late 50's I've asked EDD if they have any programs for retraining etc. They said no. Also I asked if I went and got my own training what would happen. They said they would cancel my Unemployment unless they approved it. I asked what will you approve? They said for me to apply to whatever and then they would contact the school and then let me know if approved but they would not tell me anything in advance. And while I'm waiting for their approval I would NOT be receiving my unemployment check. Is this a screwed up system or what??????????This is the perfect example of when you work for the govt you don't have to actually think anymore.I heard this on the news a yr ago.Our govt was being overcharged for some product. They were being charged 25 grand for a 1000 dollar product.When the news media caught wind of this they went and knock on the doors of this govt agency that takes care ofbilling. The person who looks over the bills said she did noticed months ago that the cost skyrocketed on this product.When asked why she didn't tell some supervisor the response was her job is to only make sure the billing form is filled out by the vendor in it's entirety. Her job is not to question anything that is actually written down on the form.When the media asked the supervisor the same question her response was that her job is to take a sample of this worker's work and only to make sure the billing forms are filled out completely and not question what's actually on the form.She also stated that she and the other office workers shared a chuckle over this in the breakroom a month earlier.This isn't unique to the public sector. If anything it's the size of the operation that causes this behavior.Since the economy went BOOM I have seen several medical careers become small in opportunities. People out of work and buisnesses opting out of benefits, such as medical, has had a tremendous affect in the industry. Several?health?professionals I know are having to re-tool and into more debt to re-establish themselves..The department of?labor?gives statistics of growth in these fields seem false! What a travesty of the ppl who put hard earned time and money.....something these colleges nor the goverment might not mention. Makes me wanna have whisky now. :/ :)Nursing isn't the only industry?advertising?itself as a growth industry when the reality is that there are no jobs and no growth.You're right, so many nursing graduates can't find jobs. It's sad, because most of these grads chose nursing for job security. They work their butts off only to find that they aren't needed like they were told they were. What's really heartbreaking is the middle aged nurses that can't find jobs. Most of these people went back to school because they couldn't find work in their previous field. It's very sad for them to come out and be faced again with unemployment, only this time they are in a new field with no work experience and more student loans (when they most likely still haven't paid off their first degree's loans).?The depressing reality is, very few occupations have job security anymore. There are very few long-term careers left in this day and age. I honestly expect to have more than 10 jobs in my lifetime; this is not including high school andcollege?jobs. With the way things are looking, I'll probably have to find a new job every 3 years. And I highly doubt they'll all be in the same field.DeserSunrise, I've gotten the impression that you're around my age (mid twenties?), do you realize that we're so far ahead of the curve in knowing all the stuff? We're prepared and know what's going on out there.How many of your peers can you say that about? Any conversation I've ever tried to start with my friends seems to go nowhere b/c they have no idea of the magnitude and don't seem to care.I just realized this and thought I'd point it out. Its a positive in all of this :)Yes, I'm a few years into my twenties. I definitely get what you're saying. Mentally, I feel very much old than my age. I tend to get along better with older people, which is why I like it here on these boards. This is mainly because, as you said, many people our age don't know (or don't care) anything about the reality of employment and unemployment. I find it very frustrating talking to people my age about the struggles of being unemployed. They don't understand where I'm coming from. Whenever they are in trouble or need money, they ask their parents. They think that it's normal and perfectly fine to leech off their parents till the poor old folks die. If they can't get a job the normal way, they ask daddy to find them a job through connections. They have no clue what other people have to go through to survive.?I can't do that. My parents have always expected me to make my own way in life. My parents don't have any connections or money to give me. They are kind enough to house and feed me because they know I'd be homeless if they didn't. They can't give me a car or an?apartment?"to get me started". So I've had to grow up, and fast. You learn quickly when you're on your own. A lot of people our age haven't reached that point yet.?Studies have shown that people are maturing much more slowly than they have in the past. A lot of people our age won't "get it" until they're around 30.?So I don't even bother talking about this stuff with young people anymore. There are other people like us, just not a lot. And not any that I know personally.The new paradigm is that most people will experience periods of unemployment. Working for you entire life will become the exception rather than the rule. Basically, companies will expect there to be pools of trained workers available when they have a project that they need to staff. What has been the norm for a long time in industries likeconstruction?will extend into the?engineering?and IT industries.I am getting really frustrated here. My?college?is telling people how open my field is, and how many jobs there are. As we know, they are all about the money.Less than half of my class got jobs, and every one of them knew someone. And these people are worse than the college-bragging and acting like it was so easy to find their jobs. Only one of them even had an interview; the rest were literally handed fantastic positions, 2 of them before we even graduated. Unbelievable.Two of my classmates walked into amazing jobs BEFORE they even graduated, due to family connections. These are probably lifetime jobs with fantastic pay and benefits, unless something weird happens, which we know is common these days. A few others got decent jobs, but nowhere near as good as these 2. The rest of us are either unemployed or underemployed. However, my professors, especially one of them, uses these 2 people as?general?examples, meaning he acts as though this is the norm. He tells current students how they got these awesome jobs, but he never mentions the connection factor, nor does he mention the rest of us who are struggling. It is such a joke.Seems to me that there used to be a time when employers were not so myopic. Some would look at a resume (or paper application, remember those?) and have the ability to find the attributes they were interested in from the different jobs listed on the application.Now, they only have the "ability" to see one or two job titles and claim "you aren't qualified"Living like a pauper simply does not suit me. The newsclaims?that jobs are picking up. I certainly do not see it. I just got one of "those" emails today claiming I could earn money by receiving mail, repackage and send back out. Yea. Right. Red flag scam alert!The news here claimed that new house sales (not sure if that was national or local) are at a 5 year high. I don't believe it. At all. Why? I see NONE of the jobs advertised that would result from such high sales.?Construction. Surveying. No ads. They lost a significant number of workers, at least some of which would have to be replaced if the?housing?market were in such good shape.I've noticed a lot of new arrivals to this board. I know things are getting worse here in Michigan, but it looks like things are worsening elsewhere. Or maybe it's just people who have been needing support for awhile locating this board and deciding to join in. I don't know, I just found this interesting. Either way, welcome to all the new posters. Hope you guys find a good job soon and aren't here for long.?On another note, I'm so sick of the media reporting an increase of jobs and that the economy is looking up. Complete lies. Jobs have dried up really bad in my state. It's very rough and it's not getting better. I decided to job search today, which I haven't for the past few weeks due to complete burn out, and there's nothing but recruiters and ads that are re-posted every few weeks. Nothing new. I'm so sick of this.The thing about the news is that your family and friends see that and think whats wrong with you that you cant find something. Same thing with the?housing?market. If its "better" then why are the carpenters and such still out of work? They are building? Oh yea right. If they added all these jobs they why are so many still out of work. Lost in the world - excellent post. Yes they want this perfect supreme being.We are having a building boom here but unfortunately the jobs are hard to get. They will layoff some workers only to fill them the next day with friends. The?apartment?complex being built across the street from me is like that. They had one crew but fired them and had a new crew start the next day. The signs are all in Spanish but I think they are still looking for drywallers, painters, and laborers. The new mall operated that way as well--I would hear a lot of guys would get laid off only to be replaced the next day.I know in my area the media is saying that job loss and people finding employment went up in November and December--they are failing to mention that these were p/t seasonal jobs and this month those same people are now out of work again. We have tons of job openings right now just to work while the Sundance?Film?Festival is going on, but then the jobs will disappear. You can't pay rent on temp jobs like that.You sound like you could be my twin sister the way you described yourself.BTW, most people on a?construction?site are low paid labourers that are hired because they are paid half of what licensed workers make. Here in TX you see some illegal immigrants hanging out in the HomeDepot parking lot waiting for a contractor to offer them a job.t's definitely still rough in Michigan, I'll give you that. Interestingly enough, I have seen some improvements as a vast number of technology and?automotive?Tier 1 / Tier 2 companies have started to post more jobs for the greater Detroit area. But that's also part of the problem, or so it seems - if you aren't qualified in one of the "lucky" industries that appears to be picking up, you're stuck sitting on the sidelines.Hang in there, neighbor. I don't think it's just Michigan-wide - rather I have many friends and family in nearby states that say the same thing about the lousy job availability. As for the "media's" reporting of the economy improving, hey, what can we expect? How many people want to know the truth - That a more meaningful and truthful unemployment statistic would require adding in the people who have given up trying to find a reasonable means of employment, and those who were making $50K-100K per year (before the recession), got the boot, and had to resort to accepting some meager part-time job paying $8-10 an hour with no benefits? Now all of the sudden we're talking about 15-20% unemployment.Nice to have another Michigander on these forums. You're right about the lucky industries. I have seen a job increase in these areas. Unfortunately, my field doesn't fall into those industries. The field I'm in is very dry, especially in MI.?And you are definitely right with the unemployment statistics. Officials like to conveniently leave out the number of people who have stopped looking. I can fully understand why some people just stop but I just don't know how they expect to live without an income. I hate job searching, but I can't ever give up because my livelihood is on the line.When it boils down to some things though it's because I don't speak Spanish and am not Hispanic. Before anyone jumps on the "racist" bend I am not. You cannot work in?education, retail,?food service,?hospitality, or the?hospital?without speaking Spanish. The want ads are filled with "must bebilingual" to apply. My local?grocery store?is now a Hispanic market. I have to go 8 blocks for a chain store. Our schools are going bilingual/dual immersion. My son's class is 97% Hispanic and the school is 98% Hispanic.Interesting comments about Salt Lake. Not anything like I thought it would be. I had this picture of many people being Mormon there. I don't want to sound ignorant either. I have been to southern Utah twice for all the national parks and all that amazing scenery. It's absolutely beautiful there. I was also surprised that SLC has so many hispanics. I didn't think that would be a popular place to go for them. Our state is getting more of the hispanics and I know they aren't all?legal. You would be a fool to think that.I refuse to learn Spanish. It doesn't interest me in the least and if someone can't understand me, then too bad. When you go to another country you learn their language, not the other way around. I don't have any interest in learning a foreign language. Keeping up with learning everything else is overwhelming enough as it is. I don't have time for learning a language.I know many of our immigrants are here legally as we have employment offices in Monterrey and Chihuahua Mexico to make the process easier. We import several teachers a year because they are more familiar with the culture of the students and they claim it makes it easier.In Salt Lake we have a pop of about 190k with 23% Latino, in my zip code though we are at 53% Latino. Many of the parents I know have a 3rd grade?education?then they left school. It is sad because if you don't know what is being taught then how can you help your?children?in school (that being said many of the parents say that homework shows that the teacher can't teach). A lot needs to change BUT having an undereducated and unskilled population helps keep wages low, people in crappy jobs, and makes the "worker" loyal.No two people are the same and to say that one speaks for all is like saying that Fundamental Christians speak for all of Christianity. I know too many people from all over the world to judge anyone but I can say from personal experience that my area shows a clear preference for one group over another and that I think is wrong. We are constantly being told on the new that Latinos are here to stay, will not learn English, and that we (the White people) need to get used to it. I accept everybody for who they are, but I wish others would do the same. One should not have to learn a particular language just to get a job. This whole issue would be solved if we just had a national language, but we don't. My father and his father were born in Germany. My grandfather and his family did not know English when they moved here after WWI but in 10 years they not only learned English but became citizens. Just a personal choice.I agree 100% with you....?They need to learn English or head back to where they came from.Exactly the way I see it. I used to work with 2 ladies from Germany and they felt that when you move or even travel to another country, you speak their language. You don't make the other country change for you.The way I see people spelling on the internet, I'm thinking a lot of us don't even know our own language, like the ad I just read for a "graphics"?designer?that was filled with mistakes.I don't think most will disagree with you here. We deal with certain individuals south of us everyday. Coming here stealing our jobs and keeping the wages low. It's been out of hand for a long time. I keep saying we should have built a wall at our southern border 30 years ago. I don't think it's being unfair. We have to protect our country and our jobs.Me too. You go to the DOL and they have instructions in Spanish. On the doors of Lowes I noticed they have the words exit and entrance in English and Spanish.Allot of GOOD Spanish people in our country, ALLOT, but it's wrong.t's worse in my neighborhood. Our traditional supermarket was "forced out" and they brought in a Hispanic market. What in the heck am I supposed to do with dried out thin cut beef knuckle or tripe or beef neck bones? I ask you that. I love to?cook?(my son hates to eat, but that's another story) but for good lord, why serve crap? I have complained about outdated products on their shelves and they laugh and say "too picky" then say things to their co-worker that they "think" I don't understand. I have to say that the amount of vulgarity from the workforce is astounding when they don't think others understand what they are saying. I may not speak Spanish, but I understand quite a bit and could easily get around (I have a few e-pals from Spain).The politicians need their vote now so you will see more and more?catering?to the Spanish cultures. I think Romney lost in part due to losing the Spanish vote big time.There's good and bad in all ethnicities. But when you come here you should learn this culture.Well, Utah has been catering for years before the election. We have an agreement with 2 of their states and have made it easier for people to apply for work here and get permits from the state. One of my neighbors found their job that way. They went into the office, filled out an application to be ahousekeeper, and was told the next week the office had a company willing to hire and pack up. They were up here the following week.The state helps Mexicans get visas to work here. It just amazes me how much is available if you don't live here. I want to LEAVE here and no one is willing to help with that.Interesting turn of discussion here. We have a decent sized Latino population in Michigan, but not enough for it to really influence things here. However, our Middle Eastern population is growing very fast. Dearborn Michigan could be called little Arabia. I can tell you, it is VERY difficult trying to find a job in Dearborn. I've tried and failed miserably. Most businesses are owned by Muslims. They like to hire arabs and rarely hire outside of that race. They usually only want to hire men, and if they do hire a woman she must wear a scarf. They also tend to only hire family members. So being of another race (I'm biracial, not including arab) is a huge disadvantage. Oh, and if you're black, forget it. There is a lot of tension between black people and arabs here.?There are still several businesses that aren't Arab owned, but this is quickly changing. I used to live on the border of Dearborn and Detroit and we used to have a large population of Eastern Europeans and a small population of Arabs. It's only been 10 years since I've lived there, but the area is almost completely Arab now.?I am simply stating the reality of things here. Things like this are alive and well and it serves no use to be politically correct about this. But let me make this clear, there are lots of very decent muslims here, just like any other race and culture. My neighbors who are muslim are the sweetest most giving people on earth. I love them and consider them family. So I am simply stating the reality of some areas here in Michigan. I have nothing against any race of people.It will be that way your whole life. It seems like those that don't work hard or those that crooked people get the rewards. Those that follow the rules and work hard get a kick in the pants or have all the bad luck. It's probably not true of everyone, it just seems that way.College?debt now surpasses a trillion dollars. WWII didn't costs that much.Course, there are some unsavory practices going on here. The biggest sales pitch is one that most students fell for hook, line and sinker: more?education?is the solution to fewer jobs. That logic is flawed.Seeing the work my son does in school though really makes me question today'seducation?system. In his 3rd grade class there is no science, social studies,?art, or music...they have math and language arts only. Language arts only consists of reading and writing...no spelling or vocabulary.Schools now teach what's on the standardized tests that most states require students to take. If a subject is not on a test, it doesn't get taught. If you were a teacher or principle and you were told that if your students didn't do well on a test you would lose your job, what would you do?Unfortunately each teacher decides HOW to teach the material. Another teacher includes?art, music, history, science, and social studies as she teaches "to the test". It just takes more work to provide a full?education. It also depends on the school. Go 5 miles in any direction and you can find "artists in residence", "Shakespeare in the classroom", and accelerated reading programs. The school blames the PTA (all 6 of us) because they say parents need to fund those programs. I proved them otherwise and hit a roadblock with the principal. Another problem, in my opinion, is that they pass students who should be held back. I tutor a child this year that is in 5th grade but just started reading on a 2nd grade level. I also tutor a 9th grader who can barely do 3rd grade math. These kids do not have a disability and so the blame rests with the school for allowing them to continue without mastery.Also guys you have to realize how much time has changed, it used to be; walk in, say "i need a job", employer responds "how soon can you start" now it's all about employers wanting to find suckers who need jobs and willing to kiss ass anytime told to do so. I've had friends fresh out of?collegeworking pool boy type jobs with degrees in marine?biology?or med students getting entree lv nursing home jobs, etc... I know exactly how rough the economy is and i've busted ass getting into the jobs i've had. I would love to go back to school for?business?management because I think I would enjoy the challenge of opening up a shop dealing with hobby gaming but at this point school is not really an option for me until me and my girl can be supported on 1 income. I mean yeah I could have stayed with Wally World and in 30 years time i would've been making around $20/hr?but being close to 30 i'm trying to make a difference in me and my girl's life. Once she finishes her degrees in a few months i'm jetting back to school.Did you guys see this article about SPains unemployment rate? I tried to post the article, but it was filtered as vulgar language. In sum, Spain's unemployment jumps to record twenty six pct and there are 1.8 million households in which no one was employed.I wonder what the real numbers look like in America?Where my husband works they keep getting on the hourly employees (delivery?drivers?and merchandisers) about watching their hours. It doesn't matter if there's more work some weeks, they still want you to do more work in the same amount of time. Then they expect the sales people, who aren't paid hourly, to work a ton of hours so they end up not making much per hour when you do the math.The supervisors or above keep their fat paychecks, and their company cars, which most of them really don't need. So why is it when they need to save money, the bottom feeders need to cut their hours? Why is when the people that make the least amount of money should give some of it up? I told my husband to ask his supervisor if he is taking a pay cut to help out the company, too.I just don't get these companies. If they had their way everyone would work for free.It's all about maximizing profits (in any industry).The?hospital?I work at layed off a bunch of middle managers. One guy had 33 years and was there since he was since his early 20's. It sucks but lots of companies want to squeeze every drop out of all their employees. At my old job I would sometimes work a few hours each week off the clock just to get the job done. I know I shouldn't have but I had a great boss that was very good to his staff.The economy sucks and many are unhappy at their job... but can't say much as they don't want to be let go or blackball-ed.It is extremely difficult not to believe in some kind of conspiracy theory for population reduction.Read this article in front page of local paper which won't allow link here as it's "offensive" - how ironic!?well the summary is CT is NUMBER ONE in the ENTIRE U.S. for loosing workers, yes we have a crisis here, NOT enough workers to fill all the wonderful jobs employers are posting.it's getting to the pt. where reading the?business?section of the paper is aggravating beyond belief and not worth it for useful info as to who is?hiring.?In 2012 over 51 THOUSAND people "disappeared" from theLabor?Pool. What do you suppose happened? Where they abducted by Aliens? The State is mystified why this happened, then they surmise that people just retired or are making money "under the table". God forbid anyone actually suggest that maybe Employers have gotten so picky that unless you can hit the ground running you simply cannot get a job. According to La-La land that is The Media nobody is suffering, people just retired early, everything is fine.?I likely would have gotten the job I interviewed at Thursday if the interviewer had not been so shocked that i've not been able to get A Job since January 2009 since everywhere you read, CT has one of the lowest unemployment rates and we are doing great- like what do you mean you can't get a job??It annoys me to no end that nobody will acknowledge what is really going on but constantly sugarcoating the issue of employment which happens to affect a minority I am a part of.?Since I don't know any other local unemployed people I really don't know if it's just me or are there thousands of us being wiped off the charts as this article may hint at??I also did not file taxes with the State last year or this past and I've stayed put, the article suggests people are moving out, likely as they cannot consider the alternative, like um people have ZERO income to report!I'm afraid that the party is over, there isn't going to be any "economic rebound" or "end to the recession", all there is going to be are a bunch of companies and people that are already rich squeezing their money as hard as they can. I was already thinking before this that I would probably be working until I dropped dead, but now it seems that's not going to be an option and I'll probably be living in a van out in the woods someplace growing my own vegetables and shooting whatever protein source happens to wander by. Things are going to get a lot worse and it's going to happen a lot sooner than anybody thinks, I fear that all these kids that are in elementary school now are going to be left holding the bag, I mean basically we're already holding the bag.Some Doomsday economists like Chomsky and Schiff say that by 2030, USa Inc., will be out-of-business. Social Security will be broke, the inheritance money will be gone and the Yuan will have replaced the dollar.yes, some of us are going to Hell in a Handbasket, whatever THAT means...?what really ticks me off is this this new "underclass" of the unemployable/otherwise poor is totally invisible.?I have lost all faith in humanity, not that I ever had much to begin with.?on top of everything today I confirmed my worst nightmare, the people next door ALSO have a ginormous TV and it's right on the other side of my?laundry?closet in my L/R so am watching Downton Abbey tonight with the doors open and much louder than i'd normally have it. These insensitive clouts have had their new TV on every night that I can hear for hours since before X-mas. Upstairs is the same thing, I don't know what kind of people who live in a complex with zero sound proofing buy a large screen TV with surround sound/speakers, apparently the self centered type so now they are going to listen to PBS whether they want to or not...grrr.I find myself very fortunate that I've become at least relatively familiar with the?Chinese?language and culture, because at the rate that our - AHEM - "great country" is changing, America may become so indebted and miserable in 20 years that the only way to recover even some simulated form of the "American Dream" will be to move to the Eastern side of the world.When a fairly smart person wants to work a decent to good job and can't find one, yes, it's easy then to lose faith in humanity.Just on the news it said 50 percent of?college?graduates are in jobs that they are overqualified for.And, they said that this will be the new norm.As a parent, I wonder how this part of the "proposed" immigration reform will affect my child's (as well as my own) prospects. I wonder what the rules for "trying" would be (they already use the fake job ads when there is no job). The proposal is: —Allowing more low-skill workers into the country and allowing employers to hire immigrants if they can demonstrate they couldn't recruit a U.S. citizenThere are some really educated people at my local Starbucks!This ties in with the some 7 million jobs that we lost since 2008 which were mostly middle class jobs.I read somewhere that there are over 5,000 people with Ph.D.'s working as janitors.I surprised that they are janitors. Every time I see?janitor?postings they want 1 yr exp with exp using a floor waxer.Next they will want you to be certified and?bilingual.Bilingual is already required here...lolThe problem is that the voices who go before Congress will be the big companies who benefit from this kind of thing. They'll all say that they can't find qualified Americans and since almost none of those clowns (Congress) has a clue, except that they get big money from these companies, they'll just roll with it.It's kind of like the annual refrain from Silicon Valley where they complain about the quality of our?education?system in California. Meanwhile, they do every single thing they can to move production offshore, avoid paying taxes and won't train new hires. Wait, a second, you want everything from us while whizzing on us at the same time? Got it!What's genuinely hard about the issue is that there are actual jobs that it is very hard to get an American to do. Farmwork is one of those, something I've done, STEM is not. However, the illegal farmworkers have allowed our farmers to be somewhat lazy in the sense of adapting and improving their processes to compete.Man, it's a mess.Wall Street is the Fed now. This last election was the most expensive on record and while I do like Obama, I know he owes a lot of favors.Robert Reich in his book "Aftershock" echos your sentiments. It is a mess".There seems to be 2 types of jobs out there. And there both bad.The first that's a dead end low paying job. And, the second is where you work 70 hours busting your butt with unbelievable stress to make 80k.There are places around the US that are called "tent?city". People with no jobs live in old RV's and tents. Most carry shotguns around since it's like the wild west. One such place is in Calif. I think in the desert.It's called Slab City, just outside of a town called Niland, but there's a real douchebag named Eric Amptmeyer who is trying his hardest to make life almost impossible for the homeless out thereThe job your looking for doesn't exist. I know because that's what I'm searching for also.Mostly 2 types of jobs out there. Great pay type but comes with unbelievable amount of stress, long hours, etc. ANDLow pay, no stress, dead end..........50?hr?work week, sometimes stressful, good pay to afford the basics and a few extras at times doesn't exist any longer. Once every 6 months I'll see one being posted but so does everyone else. Allot of times it's not in my field. Nowadays most of these jobs are in?government. Example, DOL?laborrep. (they only work 38 hrs)Life s*cks John.That is exactly what I've been seeing for years now around here. Just trying to find high value stuff to sell and get pocket money at least. My present network go only so far with that at the moment.Those good middle class jobs are no more...yours and my parents used to have them.Where do you get the high value stuff to sell?Getting stressed on by my mom now, called lazy etc.. I know some of you know what i mean. I really try not to get depressed, i never let the situation soak in, but it can be pretty harsh when your mom gets on you. I never planed to be like this and don't like putting it on others, so I tend to try to keep to myself about it. I wish I could show her this thread, that outside of the news, and local gossip, there are a million of us struggling without a job, but I know the outcome would be "they are all like you, lazy".The motivation factor just drops after putting out soo many job applications and resumes here and there, just to never hear back from anything.My stepmom is like that (unless you are talking about her adult daughter who is always a victim). She likes to say it is my fault. She has always had a good job, because she went into an open field (at the time) and was able to move up in her career. She also comes from money, so that has helped her, too. I ignore her. I graduated top of my class in high school, undergrad, and grad school. Multiple honors. Worked while going to school, and I did it all with a very painful chronic illness. Lazy is not something I will ever be.I was at the UE office the other day, and I did not see laziness. There were tons of people there, and what I saw was sadness, despair, and fear in their eyes. Sure, some are lazy, but they do not come to job boards to vent because they do not care. I have a stepson who has never worked, is almost 21, and thinks it is funny. Several of his friends are the same way. Luckily, mommy is supporting him. And I know more than a few other people who are content to sit on their butts and do nothing. But, I think the majority DO want to work, but being unemployed is insanity now.It is very hard to cope with this, but when people judge you, it is so much worse. Especially your family. I have VERY successful family members, and the holidays and other gatherings are awful. I get it.As long as you know you are doing everything you can to find work, you can look in the mirror and be happy with yourself. NO ONE knows what this is like, unless they are going through this. And they really do not care. And the employers do not care, so it feels like you are all alone. But, you are not-those of us dealing with this really do understand.My mother is the same way and getting worse. She has made snide comments ever since I moved back in. My brother "has never been out of work in this recession" (he drives a?delivery?truck). She keeps talking about how all these unemployed need to pick up a broom and start sweeping the streets to earn their welfare and "how come there are jobs out there but you claim you can't find one" to "I did what I had to do when I was raising you kids, how come you think you're better than me".I want out so bad it's depressing. She complains about everything. If I didn't have my son I would walk away. Some days I feel like doing that anyways. He has picked up her snide comments and repeats them. I'm used to her treating me like crap but it really hurts coming from him. Some mornings I just sit here and curse the day I was born. I wasn't wanted then, not wanted now. Employers don't want me, child doesn't want me. I never had a problem getting a job until she convinced me to to work while I was going to school and taking care of him. Now I can't find a job anywhere.Is your stepson currently in?college???What does you husband say about him not wanting to work ?Its good that you have a supportive husband.My stepson does nothing but play video games, eat, and sleep. His mother is supporting him. He turned down two jobs his friends found for him. My husband cannot believe that his kid refuses to work, when he has watched my husband work many hours a week for years. The kid wants a job that pays 20 bucks an hour, Monday to Friday, no weekends or nights, and he does "not want to work too hard." I have met more like him, but he just refuses to look for work at all.My husband is an awesome guy. He knows I am trying.Maybe dad needs to have a talk with his adult son and force him to find any job even if its flipping burgers. If that was my son he would be out of the house with that attitude and crazy view of life.Young adults think they are owed something in life...?the only thing they are entitled to is a swift kick on their ass.He lives with his mom, and is never coming here. My husband has tried and tried to get him to wake up, he just refuses to apply. He thinks it is funny. His mother is getting annoyed, but she needs to do something, and so far, she has done nothing but suggest he come live with us. That will NEVER happen. It makes me so mad, I see people here and everywhere struggling and he thinks he is owed some great job.When I was somewhere around my late teens/ early 20s, I got laid off from some job. I spent the next 3-4 weeks sucking up the unemployment and sleeping late thinking "hey, this is a sweet deal". I was living at home with my folks. After approx 3-4 weeks, daddy pulled me aside and said "you have two choices..... move out or get a job". I got a job within a few days.In marketing, they have something called The Losers List. It is actually a multi-generational?database. It consists of 3 or more adults living in one physical address with some kind of relationship: parent/child, grandfather/grandchildren, sibling/sibling, etc. Again, the 3rd person is an adult.You have to wonder what will happen to society with all these 30 year old toddlers living at home now. The Losers numbers in the millions today.I am seeing it more and more. I understand when people are in a bind, and they have to move back home. I don't have that option, because my parents do not have room for me, but if I did, and needed to, I would be helping out and applying to every job I could. But, to blatantly not want to work or do anything productive amazes me. We talked a lot about that in my classes, and some said it is part of this generation (not all, just seems to be quite a few) or generational, in that family members passed down the "lazy mentality."I got my first job at 15 and was NEVER out of a job for more than 2 days for the next 14 years. I would quit one, walk around, and have several interviews for the next day. I don't like being out of work...any work. The last 8 years has killed me completely.I started working for my mom (who owned a retail?business) when I was in high school. Actually, I helped her my whole life, because I got volunteered often, but in high school I got paid to help. Then I was employed by a number of different companies until my late 30s without a gap. It didn't even take that much effort to get a job and get through an interview.Then 2002 I got laid off, decided to go to school and I've struggled ever since. It's been 11 years of BS. Getting laid off again and again. Part time jobs, temp jobs and no jobs. Some of the jobs I was a perfect fit, but couldn't get hired. Other jobs were so simple anyone could do them, but can't get those either.It's very frustrating and makes me feel like I should be on the loser list. How did I get to this point? I grew up in a family where we always worked hard.I have struggled, too. Never had a career, which is why I went for the Masters. We are not losers-we are trying. I think some people just get really lucky. I have several family members in their mid and late 30s who have been at their jobs 15-20 years. They are doing well, but that seems to NOT be the norm these days. And they are the kind who do not understand this insanity.Maybe we are losers.But I think it's a different world today. Just not much opportunity in terms of a real job.I felt like slapping the interviewer last week for an outside sales job. He told me sometimes I would have to work theinside sales?desk some Saturdays from 7:30 to 12. I replied that there's always some negatives to one's job but it wouldn't be a problem. He shot back "this isn't a negative!" "It gives you a chance to learn the inside sales position." When he first told me about working a few Saturdays his tone suggested that it wasn't something outside sale people enjoyed. What was wrong with my response am I suppose to flash a big smile and say something phony as my reply.I hate going on interviews and realizing afterwards why did I waste my time and gas.Life s*cks.Definitely not a loser. I know there is a perfect job for you and a perfect employer...it's just a matter of finding each other. I think everyone needs a new perspective (myself included). I vowed today to spend 15 minutes every morning thinking about what I love and desire in my life then get up, get dressed, eat, and work towards my goal a little each day. At night, spend 15 minutes thinking about at least one good thing that happened that day ( anything will do...movie, flower, sunny day, you get the picture). Then start it all over the next day.I know it's not perfect and will not change over night but each and everyone on this board will find a job, a significant other, a new place to live, or whatever they are looking for but in the meantime we cannot change others opinions of us, so we can only encourage and support ourselves.No one is a loser...that is high school clique talk designed to make one feel superior to another. We all desire different things but no one is better than another (employed or unemployed). This is the start of a new year and it will get betterI'm not trying to brag it up or look down upon anyone else. I learned early on that is the worst thing to do. One of my better talents was talking to people, not down or up to them. Although the upptity (is that spelled right?), ones get pi--ed of if you don't suck up to them. At age 56, after being downsized twice since 2008, I have learned that many of the people doing the job interview, ( other then?HR?people, have no idea what they are supposed to be doing), as I was saying many of the interviewers are scared to hire someone who has knowledge of the job you are being interviewed for. The reason is that they know they could be replaced. I never had a problem with starting lower than my qualifications, and prove my skills, but no one will hire you, because they know they may be gone very quickly.?For the record, I have been a newspaper circulation rep, newspaper pressman, bowling center manager/ mechanic, Sears salesman twice, a retail manager, retail merchandiser, a professional route salesman, a social club manager, (Moose, Elks, American Legion, etc.), and an?auto?mechanic. It does not mean crap. I have had?driving?companies tell me that my van is too old to be a?delivery?courier. I thought is that I can get that kind of use on a vehicle, I must be a safedriver, and can maintain it.?For those of you who have a parent whining to work at a dollar store, DON'T do it. It is not worth it. Just shop at them.Sometimes I think my parents understand the pathetic unemployment situation the U.S. is in, and other times I think they are stuck on stupid and in absolute denial.?I'm working my butt off in minimum wage retail. Long hours, always on my feet, always have to have a good personality. I get home and I collapse in exhaustion. I'm scraping pennies together trying to save for a car so I can drive myself to this job. For the first time I returned bottles for a little cash. I never used to think about doing that. I am exhausted, stressed and in someways depressed. I've got loans coming due in March and I don't know how I'm going to pay them. My?hospital?is hounding me for their payments. I'm re-using tea bags and searching for spare change around the house.?Today my mother tells me that I am not a real adult because I don't live on my own. That I am really still a child and haven't faced real life. That I think I'm an adult because I'm in my twenties but I'm really still a kid living with my parents. She told me I wouldn't be a real adult until I moved out an had an above minimum wage desk job.?It took everything in my power not to cuss her out. Is she trying to tell me that 30 year old people that have been laid off and have been forced to move back in with their parents are not adults? That they are really?children? Has she lost her mind??Does she seriously think I CHOOSE to still live at home? That I like living off my parent's money? That I'm perfectly happy working minimum wage jobs for the rest of my life? Does she seriously think I haven't experienced hard adult trials with this unemployment? That I haven't faced the reality of life yet??I am so angry right now. I haven't been this upset in a long time. She can go kick rocks. She's never had to look for a real job in her life. She married and has stayed at home ever since. I'm not saying being a full-time mom isn't work, it is. But she has no right to say stuff like this about the unemployed.Parents do not know how much patience and self control unemployed adult children living at home have. I hear it daily too. She doesn't understand, never will, and I hope her husband has a large life?insurance?policy to support her after he passes because she only gets half his social security since she has not worked.I know you will find a job, move out, and move on with life. The hard part is keeping going while having a weak support system.When my mother was my age she had problems and came back home to her mommy. The only difference was that her mother owned real estate so we rented one of her apartments. Parents just don't get that times have changed and it is harder today than it was 40 years ago.The dept of?labor?is a total waste of taxpayer monies.They need to get rid of every employee and just keep one to issue the checks out. Two I mean, the second to give the first a smoke break.I remember a time when job service really was there to help people find jobs. They would screen applicants for companies, physically give out job referrals, you could find applications there and get help filling it out, and they would actually call people who were looking for work to say that a new job was posted that may fit what they were looking for.Now its take this form and get benefits. They don't even mail out things any more. They sent me a message almost 2 weeks ago and I just noticed because I don't visit my?accountevery day. You would think that if they had something important to say they would email/call/mail to make sure people get the message.This is one of the many problems affecting the unemployed. It is plain out and out discrimination. But try to get any official agency to fight it. They won't, because the claim is that it will restrict?business. Unfortunately, with all the millions unemployed, there might be one out there. The job will go to a job hopper.All companies are using this type of discriminatory?hiringpractices. You may be required to own a smartphone as a conditioin of employment. Or a certain year/ model of automobile if it is a traveling position. Or, even worse having to apply through Facebook. If I want the f@$#&*g world to know my business, I'll write a letter to the?editor?of the New York Times.*I remember bout 10 years ago I had to go visit a small client. The person I interacted with was a super nice guy. He told me he use to work for a Fortune 5 company and had enough of it. I thought what a loser, he couldn't be making much working for a super small?business.10 years later, I myself can never work again for a large company. Beware!*Linkedln makes me laugh. I was reading the profile of a guy that I talked to on the phone many times in the past. We worked for the same company. He in San Fran me in NY. Never met in person.The reviews his peers wrote about him on Linkedln are so far from the truth. This guy had poor?communication?skills, never got back to me with answers to my questions, and didn't know much about the company products.It's all BS.Hey Joe,?You're totally right. When I was still with McDonald's, after about a year with a new owner, he straight out told me he could pay 2 people what he was paying me. When he bought the store, he wanted me there to help with the transition but once everything calmed down, I could do no right and I knew he was looking for a way to get me out without having to pay me unemployment. It ended up taking him 3 years before I left on my own. Now they are going thru store managers left and right. Wonder why? You don't pay crap and expect the world.Many people just can not comprehend being practical and not spending money when not needed. Could well be part of the reason this country is in such afinancial?mess. Debt rate has gone down last time I heard though.Not the national debt. It hasn't been this high since WWII. A very bad sign in economic terms.In 1965, only 5% of the population was on some kind ofgovernment?handout. Today, it is 35%. Obama's solution is to print more money.Most career counselors. Don't drink the Kool-Aid.Healthcare is oversaturated now and once?ElectronicMedical Records become all the rage, thousands of jobs are going away. My niece is a medical?assistant?and more and more of this is being automated.The minimum wage is going up to $9?hr?now, suppose to help people out, but I wonder how much that will hurt those corrupt employers into letting more people go?They are cutting hours big time at my husband's job. He is literally doing the jobs of 4 people. He is exhausted. They don't replace people who leave anymore.I think this unemployment situation is going to get a whole lot worse....and I don't know what it is going to take to make people listen.Healthcare?is completely saturated here. So is?education?and most other jobs.Now my mom is telling me to check out the unemployment office, and go out and look for a job. From my understanding, all these unemployment offices do now is post up job ads they see online now. Just about everywhere posts online, even going inside a store they will tell you to apply online on their site.The corporate world is looking less and less worthwhile these days. I come home after these 'interviews' and question what the hell I'm doing and why? What do I hope to gain aside from society's expectations of what life and success means?I don't know if this is my path anymore, I thought it was what I wanted, now I'm not so sure.Some people just have all the luck, things just fall in their laps. Its never been this way for me. I don't know anymore. I'm tired.Personally, I can't do the corporate gig anymore. I could of had a job in sales with Unifirst, Paychex, and a few others. You get to a point in life where the endless corporate meetings, the policy on top of policy, the what have you done lately for me mentality, etc etc etc etc just can't take the corporate bs anymoreI'm really down and dishearten on myself for not taking a non corporate job I was offered a few weeks back. I think that was my calling but at the time I just wasn't sure.I am not tired so much as numb. My first layoff was 16 years ago and someone who had gone through this before said that something deeply fundamental changes in you when you go through this. Even, if you get another job you just aren't the same person.After 2 downsizes and one termination, I am at that place now.You stop living. Every minute of every day you think about the job?search. You start eating poorly and you become alittle grumpy. Many days your chest gets heavy. And when you talk to people you know and strangers too you can tell they are thinking, "What's wrong with this person...why can't they get a job."You don't dress as sharp as you used to when you were employed. Maybe due to the fact you have no where to go for the day. You actually start hating people to some extent. etc etc etc?The longer I've been out of work the worse all of those things have gotten. Numb, check. Tired, double check. Grumpy, eating worse, dressing down, checks across the page. Anger often comes out in strange ways as well.Oh well, still trying to find my way and get other things going. Deal with it. Attempt to move on as best I can. Expect to attempt to prod one of the museums to go through some of their stuff and give me something to sell. Going to take a big stick to prod with, there are just so many projects going on...... and so many more interesting things to do than go through boxes of stuff........My biggest issue is that I am reflecting on my life, and I want to kick myself. I was the biggest nerd in high school (and even the earlier years). Everything was centered on going to?college. Then, when college came, it was the same way-working SO hard to have a great future. That did not happen, because I picked a stupid degree. After years of not having a career, I decided to go for the Masters. Did A LOT of research. Picked a viable degree and graduated into a horrible economy. And now I am in the same boat, but older, and have tons of debt from school. What a mess.It does change you, and you wonder "what if" all of the time.The expectation of society is that you go to school to get a job where you will work for one or several large corporations or a large?government?bureaucracy because that is where the decent jobs are. The tricky part is that corporations don't want to hire Americans on American soil where they have to pay American wages unless you can do the work of four people. The?general?trend is that less people will be needed by corporations in to run their operations in developed countries, where wages are high compared to the developing world, . The large government bureaucracies are also shedding workers because their budget are being increasingly supplemented by debt than tax revenue.Most of our policies, including most on?education?and concerning free trade agreements is about increasing the power of large organizations, the most powerful of which happen to be corporations. If you're not working for large corporations or a large government, and you're making a decent living, you're either very resourceful or you're involved in something illegal.The thinking is that you can't beat them, so join them or aspire to, because they control access to everything you need.Hate to say it but this is the new America. Corporations have become people and they are above the?law?and can do whatever they want to whomever they want. As one article I read recently, the interviewer is not thinking "can this person do the job" but rather "could this person and I be friends and hang out after work". In other words...the cheerleaders and incessantly happy people have taken over. Everyone needs to be competitive, fit in a box, think outside of the box, be willing to be a slave, sign their life away, and be happy for table scraps. When companies can?fire?people for farting, posting on a personal blog, texting a friend, or for being "too attractive" then thing have gone horribly wrong.But, don't go by me or my opinion...I am heading out the door to an interview for a pt job hawking pizzas at the local mall. Why I went to?college?is beyond me (aside from my kid that is).As I have said before, since 2007, we have lost 7 million jobs to automation, off-shoring or restructuring.The real problem is that you have lost two jobs: the one you had and the one you need.In 1965 only 5% of the population was on some kind ofgovernment?assistance. Today, it is around 35% and growing. Its what caused Obama to take the election.In the 60's (and 70's), most of the jobs that were created were middle class jobs. Now, the majority of new jobs pay little more than minimum wage. The rest of the world is catching up to the USA, and our corporate leaders are aiding them by off-shoring jobs.Despite all of the news of unemployment, and the many stories here and elsewhere, I do not think people are understanding the scope of this. I know you won't understand how bad it is until you are actually unemployed. I know that people think it is our fault.Still, I have a family member getting a BA in poetry who thinks that he is going to make tons of money. His mother is about to graduate with some kind of medical certificate and also thinks that he-and she-will find great jobs. They look at me with pity. The irony is this woman has already been rejected from a couple of jobs, but still thinks she will be fine.I have friends who teach?college, and their students are ALL confident they will find fantastic jobs. I guess there is no way to make people understand what this is truly like. Not that I want to make people depressed, but I think it is much better to know what this is like now, before you graduate and cannot even get an interview. I wish I had known.I guess it depends on the news sources and who you are in contact with. If you read articles from CNNMoney, things seem positive, but many of the posters there are extremely negative on the economy. What little I encounter of Fox News would make me think we're still in October 2008 or March 2009 if I didn't know better. In my own life, I haven't seen much of an effect from the high unemployment rate, but I read all of your personal stories and can't help but think things are MUCH worse than my perception. If I were unemployed myself and didn't have much to do but fill out online applications and tab back to Indeed every few minutes, I'd be certain that no job would be coming, ever. I mean, I can only really recall one poster here who has found anything approaching a stable job recently - Nick in NJ, who's now busy and doesn't post nearly as often.I can't help but think that this bombardment of depression wasn't possible pre-1998 or so (when I noticed more acquaintances than not having internet access).BTW, I've also noticed the "positive spin" in the news, lately. It really depends on who you ask. For the people who have jobs/money, things are improving. Their investments are improving, their job is continuing on, and they can still pay bills. But for those who have been struggling, I don't see many of them suddenly getting into something that pays the mortgage. Those people are basically slowly eeking into jobs that used to pay better, that now pay less because they can...and even those jobs are not being created fast enough for demand.People wonder why I love going to work every day, working long crazy hours and getting filthy and smelly most of the time. It's because I make more than most public school teachers, and I know it, and I'm gonna ride that wave for as long as it supports my board. ;)Yeah, I feel that public transportation is only really viable if you live in a metro area. The town I live in now does have some busses/shuttles available. However, it would take me 2 hours to get to either my university or the closest?city?and each route would only work 1-2 times a day. (None of which would get me to either location any earlier than 1pm and would involve a minimum of 4 connections.) To reach the second closest metro city would take me 7 hours. Where I used to live, I could take a commuter train to Boston and to several other surrounding towns and the timing was much better (~45 minutes to Boston, ~30 minutes to a place within walking distance to a mall), but much more expensive - $17.50 round trip to Boston, $9 round trip to the mall. Once in Boston, you can go anywhere for $2.00/subway ride though.I have never felt such anger until becoming unemployed and it's because of what others think of the unemployed.Today I was reading bout North Carolina's Governor who just reduce Unemployment benefits from like $550 to 350 and reduced the number of weeks you can collect by allot. After the article I read the comments of regular people. 80 percent of the people said nasty things like, "If these losers wanted to work they could find something but they are lazy."This experience has changed me in my relationships outside of family.Yeah, NC's governor can bite me.And same with everybody in the million-dollar good-ole boy club.They ship our jobs overseas, raise the prices on consumer goods, and then don't care if people die from exposure or starvation. Real Charles Dickens around here.Well I hope you get one of them. I really do not think the job market is improving... If anything its getting worse. Not sure why the liberals think that job growth is tepid, but improving.. The appropriate term would be "decline". Not only that salaries are getting slashed, while inflation rises. Seriously, I had an easier time getting interviews right after the?financialcrisis. I fear that the overall economy will suffer even more eventually. The stock market is up, but it's been propped up.. and that will eventually lead to a crash. What then? If I do not get a job soon, I will have a financial crisis in my wallet. I hope I get an interview soon that will lead to employment, but that's all you can do I guess.Publicly traded company is all about the bottom line and stock price.Your store manager probably was on a conference call with other store managers and were told by the?District Managerthey need to cut all unnecessary costs by so much.In the case of the store managers and in a publicly traded company if you don't do what you are told your gone. The managers probably look over all their expenses and determined which ones they could live w/0.I can't do the corporate world anymore.That's it!Did you tell anyone at Whole Foods you were voting for Obama?I didn't bother voting, this year. I don't see the difference between not being able to vote, and being able to vote but both the choices sucking.I went to the mall to walk today. Inside lots of people walking the mall, but not many shopping or buying anything. I saw a fur coat for the cheap price of $5995. Sales lady said I could buy it for $2300. Woo hoo, what a bargain. Who buys this stuff?Last night I was having a conversation with someone about how I read back in about 2003 that all the baby boomers would be retiring and in 5-10 years there would be more jobs than people to fill them. You see how that worked out, right? Problem is they aren't retiring as fast or the jobs they had aren't being filled again. Other jobs went overseas and here we are with more people than jobs.Actually there are more seniors still working now than ever before. On the other hand, there are also more seniors opting for early social security now (age 62) than ever before.They will have to raise the retirement age or SS will be broke by 2030.I recall having read even before the Great Recession that the top 2 percent do half of the spending (which is why on sports programs there are so many commercials for?investmentcompanies,?financial?advisors, and luxury cars and watches, which most of us will never have a use for). We're becoming a nation of haves and have-nots.I graduated with a BA almost 4 years ago now. In the 4 years since, I've been mostly unemployed doing a lot of part-time and temporary work. I've been laid off 3 times in the last 4 years. I've lost count of the number of job contacts I've made over these few years, we're talking hundreds of applications hundreds of resumes. Job interviews have become a weekly thing for me. These?hiring?managers all tell me the same things "your very smart, presentable, likable" and they all seem to agree that my?education?disqualifies from any type of job. Professional managers tell me "your smart and its great that you have a degree but you don't have any experience." Burger King managers (yes I've applied to most of the fast-food?places in my area) tell me "your smart and its great that you went to?college, but you have a degree, your way overqualified for this position." Someone tell me why I went to college (on student loans mind you!) if the only thing a BA degree is going to do is completely disqualify me from the entire American workforce. How is it possible that I be either over or under qualified for every type of position out there.What has been most jolting is realizing that companies are not at all capable of staffing for their commercial needs. They don't know what they're doing. I'm relatively young and I just assumed that I would be entering a workforce where the economic actors had any competence or expertise in determining what it was they needed to conduct their businesses. They don't. Big wake-up call.Thanks. Honestly? What I can suggest to anyone in this position of stagnation and atrophy... consider leaving the country. Me and my family are already looking into this. I have more than a handful of friends from high school andcollege?who have left the contiguous United States and pursued their careers elsewhere around the globe. This includes teaching, the STEMS,?finance, and medicine. This is the option that we are now exploring. I'm sorry, but I've given this three or four years. The?labor?market of the United States is not improving. We can either pretend this isn't true or we can acknowledge this IS true and move forward accordingly. I suggest to anyone encountering this endless dead-end nonsense to look outside the box and consider if there might be another country who may find your skills marketable.The work visa requirement of foreign countries are not universally stringent. Look into this.Yeah, when last child leaves the house I'm heading for Brazil.That's my plan as well. I was in Panama a few years ago and I stayed at a small bed and breakfast. The owner was from Oklahoma.I couldn't believe how much English I heard down there already.When u do get a job, never, ever forget that the person or company you work for has no loyalty to you. Everything is a numbers game regardless of the promises or what any one says. If it isn't in writing and signed, its not worth crap. Loyalty is way outdated in the working world.Most employers are looking for 2 things: specific experience and social fit.?Intelligence?and?general?knowledge of your field are not priorities.I never liked F500s. They're stiff, sterile authoritarian bureaucracies.You're just a number out of 100s of people. Invisible. To climb would be very difficult.Unless favoritism is involved. Or you went to Ivy League. Interviews with F500 have always been standoffish. Upon leaving I would feel I need to stick my finger down my throat to purge.Why would you want to work at F500? Even if you went to Ivy and have connections there, you would have to compete with the many other Gatsbies.When they say "getting your hands dirty" they mean doing menial stuff that would by beneath your experience/education.I agree. The psychological?contract?that once traded employee loyalty for job security is no longer valid. Its was forever breached twenty years ago.You also have to remember that the closest competitor for your job is probably sitting about 20 feet from you. If the only name at the top of the Performance Review is yours, you can call yourself "a team" or a can of peas for all that it matters.Smile and nod where its expected but don't drink the Kool-Aid. Your job depends on last quarters' earnings and nothing else.I don't know what my professors were thinking when they interviewed half my class and then accepted them into the program. I mean, really....some of them cannot even speak properly. The writing skills-don't even get me started. Several of them came to class and did NOTHING, but since a lot of it was group work, they made it through because of the bleeding hearts. I did NOT mind helping, but I refused to do people's work, and that made me unpopular. I had to help a few of them with papers. I NEVER thought they would get good jobs. I think what is saving them is there is not a lot of heavy duty writing or speaking in their jobs, but still, they arecounseling?people, and that makes me so sad. The laziness and immaturity...I could go on and on. One of them does do a LOT of reports for her job, and I cannot imagine. Her papers were terrible. Some people are NOT meant for school. And the way these colleges just hand out degrees scares me.Years ago it was taboo to lay-off employees. The stock price never recovered.Back then, laying off employees was considered to be a sign of poor management. Now, laying off employees is considered to be a sign of good management.I wouldn't take an $8/hour temp job now because my permanent little gig down at the death camp pays a bit more than that, although my hours have been cut almost in half for the last month or so. The benefit to this is that my body and mind have been able to recover from the constant beatings down at the camp.I actually applied to three or four jobs over the last few days. It's been some time since I've seen any decent ads to which I can submit myself. The thing is, I could be (and am) the perfect candidate for a few of them, but I doubt I'll have a chance due to my gap. Everyone needs to catch a break at some point and then go forward from there. Or does that simply not ever happen anymore - unless you know someone?It's a ridiculous state of affairs. Heading in to the death camp at 11. Getting out at 7.Good times.I don't think there are breaks anymore. It doesn't matter how many Lucky Charms you eat. The luck may never come. I never seem to know the right people, so I guess I'm screwed.I'm right there with you. I exhausted any contacts long ago. I have people I know (not former colleagues) asking for my resume once in awhile. That's not happening. Too embarrassing. My resume, with the gap, on its face screams I am unemployable. I don't see a way around it without someone seeing past it and acknowledging my experience and skills.I was just thinking today about how I paid cash for a car 6-1/2 years ago. Those days are long gone.All I can add to your post is that I, too must be unemployable too. And yes, I agree totally that we've seen the last of those days of paying cash for a car. This economy just will not ever recover, nor mend itself.This is a good thread. I'm just catching on. I am working FT now. But I was out of work for quite some time due to this recession.I miss the "good ole days" where I had good benefits, (health&?dental), a living wage with disposable income, and a balanced lifestyle.Now, I'm working longer hours (10-12) hrs per day. I have a longer commute. The Co. I work for is doing much more for less. They take on more and more clients and are always understaffed and unable to handle all the new?business.They pay OT a lot and people take advantage of that because the starting wage is so low. You have to work 10-12hr?days just to make a BASIC living.There's lots of overweight and unhappy people there. Lots of people take smoke breaks. I don't smoke. The culture is that you walk through the halls and people don't smile and say hello. They walk fast right past you and maybe look at you. Most keep their head down and walk right on by.You can feel isolated among the large cube farms. You can go without seeing your boss for 2-3 weeks in a row.The favored employees are the chosen few who have special projects. Others are the worker bees.Sad what our society has become. We've lost our humanity. I'm technologically savvy like most of you. I don't like the fact that our office is all emails. No one gets up from their cubes to talk with anyone. You email even if you're 2-feet away.Again, hence the overweight and stressed out workers.All the best to you folks!A sad but unfortunately accurate commentary on 21st century America. Corporations care about neither their employees nor their customers except for what monetary returns they can extract from them. Cooperation in the office is stifled because everyone fears the next layoff and therefore doesn't want to help their co-workers because making their co-workers look better makes their own position less secure.As the middle class is being deleted, retail sales will continue to decline. The 1%er's can only buy so many yachts and the poor are living off food stamps."and the poor are living off food stamps"Or trying to make ends meet with a retail job..Or two or three jobs and even those are getting harder to getI'm no rich person, but I'm thankful for what I have. Lots of decent people hurting out there.What is this nonsense?RECOVERY SUMMER IS HERE!UNEMPLOYMENT IS 5%ALL THOSE PEOPLE NOT WORKING NOW HAVE TIME TO PURSUE ART AND POETRYEVERYTHING IS GREAT!We are more respected then EVAH!And the Syrian Refugeehadis are just like the Pilgrims on the Mayflower.The libs are giving the refugees OUR money! We can not take care of our own homeless, but we must provide housing, welfare, cash, & food stamps to those Muslims who want to kill us?"The organization still claims that the brief government shutdown in 2013 had a negative impact on shopping, although no data confirm that. Last year, the Wall Street Journal reportedthat Matt Shay, NRF President, “attributed the declines to better?online offerings and an improving economy where ‘people don’t feel the?same psychological need to rush out and get the great deal that weekend,particularly if they expected to be more deals,’ he said.”What complete bs this is. I'll tell you what determines my spending it's not statistics or whether it has been a slow start buying hype, it's called my paycheck. I don't know about you but mine has not been rising like the prices that have been rising that's for sure. I about have a hard attack every time I go to the grocery store with how much things have gone up. Also thanks to the $h!tty job market my son has been forced to move back home. We are personally cutting way back because we have to. And in the end, it's not all about just presents anyways, thank God.The original intent for the upcoming holiday, though not scriptural, was to celebrate the birth of my Savior. Now it's all about the bottom line. Just pathetic. Yesterday we gave thanks to God that we live in America, the most beautiful nation on Earth which is now being destroyed by greed.Had family over last night.Some of them, parents of an in law's wife... are American born chicanos... union laborers forever.They hate Obama.The don't want refugees.They hate Hillary.I also have family up in the NW.... white collar.. similar results. Will not vote 'D' next time. Very slow economy in the Puget Sound.More family in San Jose. Out of work with an IT background.IMHO, the DC Media is doing its best to hide what is going to be a disaster for the Democratic Party as it has allowed the Progressives to go out of control.94 million people out of work, with more joining them as they're coerced into training the H1B visa replacements is another indication. And I'll bet that those foreign employees are?not?doing any shopping at the Best Buy!Probably not. Our labor supply is through the roof, Government spending is absurdly high, and there are far too many people with the "Gimmie Dat" mentality. Great time to be in America.IF we were not fooled with EBT cards and all the welfare programs, we'd see lines of people for MILES trying to get a bowl of soup, just like the Great Depression. Don't be fooled. They will not admit it, but 94 million who cannot find a job who are AMERICAN CITIZENS, are in a deep Depression.Nothing has been fixed since the 2007 meltdown. Just papered over and swept under the rug.After enough years, and it's been 7 already, people will finally realize as they should have at the beginning of the Prog Era, that slow growth is a permanent feature of the economy, until the Progs are ousted.And yes, that includes the GOPe.The so-called "Federal Reserve" should be gotten rid of and allow banks to compete among one another for which offers the highest interest rates on savings and the lowest rates on loans. The "Federal Reserve" doesn't perform any useful function, other than check clearing. Currency should be issued directly from the Treasury Department.Student loan debt is much worse than people think. In my class there were about 25 of us or so. 20 of us had to take out loans. Some now have loans close to or in the 6 figures. Only a handful of people got decent jobs, where the max salary is 70K. The rest of us are either unemployed or making salaries under 40K. This is one small class in one state. You don't even need to do the math to see how bad this is. These loans are NEVER going to get paid off, or they will be paid very slowly. I am sick over it, and I will send something each month, once I get working. I know I am responsible, but I went to school and worked hard to get a good job. To better myself. So many of us did. Some people do not want to pay their loans, but most of us really do. We just cannot.Hi Everyone- I was laid off from one of the largest employers in 2009. I interviewed 68 times and landed some?contractsfor most of 2010 till i finally got a perm offer in 2011. I am still at the current job in a dept. where they?fire?people quarterly, hire bad managers who don't communicate. It's very stressful although it was nice for a year or so. I there over 2 years, another new manager and they fired more people so I have a two person job now. I hate going to work, and want to get out of there. I am a sole home owner and need to have a certain amount of pay my bills which are excessive due to living off of?credit?cards since 2009. Now it seems the job market pays less even then before. I even thought of doing?contract?jobs but now I have a medical problem and some of the contracts jobs have no benefits and pay terrible. The agents are greedy and only thinking of where they can stuff you to make a quick buck. Companies don't want perm or older workers because they don't want to pay benefits. It's really sad what things have come to and the lives that are impacted by this new culture we live in.I think we're all screwed for full-time. Corporations have figured out that they can rent and those are the nice places. Others offshore, still others whine to Congress that they can't find capable workers anywhere but in a foreign land, many funnel their profits outside of the country.I believe that the only answer is to get lucky (have the right skill or your state allows fracking), be better than everyone else out there or be prepared for "foot long or 6-inch"? And most of us won't have what it takes to really capitalize on that last question either.I was reading an article in the news about how approx. 50% of people in my area are working on?contract?and are underemployed. Nobody talks about this openly though.The only thing my family can say is 'good luck' and 'yeah' when I describe what's going on.I don't know what to do.The corporate leaders have become so out of touch with the common person that they have no realization that the average person has very little margin financially. They think of employees as a cost of doing?businessrather than as people.I agree. I also believe that most if not all of these people on the radio and tv who talk about the economy and Wall st are so out of touch with the middle class.I regularly would hear the above people saying how 400,000 isn't much money when Obama before the election was talking about taxing high earners above this amt.Being out of work the picture of America and it's future has become really clear for me.One of the senior leaders came back from vacation today, found out what's happening with me, and declared it one of the stupidest things he's ever heard, and I have every right to be pissed. Finally, someone above me who knows how thoroughly I'm being screwed.e on now, you should be willing to save the company money by working for less. That's how they think now. That's not going to help you out in any way.My husband's company is like that. They expect him to work less hours, get the same amount of work done in less time, but end up making less money. The ones suggesting that are salary and they aren't taking a pay cut. See how nice that works?They also told my husband he does his job too well and it got marked against him on his review. They want him to put the merchandise up half-ass. The old way of doing things was that everything had to look "opening day perfect." Now the only time it looks that good is when the Nestle big shots are coming around.Managers and?business?owners tend to believe that they really are superior to everyone else and therefore they don't have a problem asking the lessers to sacrifice for their benefit.This might be alittle off topic.Since being out of work and finding it difficult to get back in the workforce I have more sympathy for people who aren't part of the status quo nowadays. The poor, homeless, jobless, etc.And people who work the system it doesn't bother me any longer. Good for them. Someone wants to take the toilet paper from McD's restroom, so be it.The deck is stacked against the average good person today, it's unreal.When Eliot Spitzer, governor of New York was caught with his sexcapades, he resigned and went to work for his father.You would have gone to jail.Remember our dear Teddy (Kennedy) and "the bridge" incident? You or I would have gone to jail..... yet he remained in congress for the next 50 years...At some point, you will 1. Get a job. 2. Give up looking for a job. 3. Hang yourself. Under the theory of operant conditioning, unless there is some possibility of success (a bone or a pat on the head) you will stop looking for a job and your dog will stop fetching the ball.Some 3 million people have given up even looking. One of my relatives paid a doctor to put him on SSD on a work related injury. This was really an old high school football injury. He looked for a job for 2 years and couldn't find anything He is content to be a welfare queen now.Not an isolated example. In 1965 only 5% of the population was on any kind of gub'mint handout. Today, it is 35% and growing.Do you think it will get to a point where something more consistent than a recession, i.e. a greater depression will occur?Here I have something puzzling...I did graduate from University with a high good GPA above 3.5 to define a range.?I went back to the same institution to ask information about Ph.D programs in the same discipline, and I have learned that a GRE is required previous admission.?Now, what does that say about their undergraduate program?It says that?college?is an industry and today, a very lucrative one. You have to some kind of graduate apptitude test for grad school. I took the GMAT and it was a mother.So how does more?education?solve the problem of fewer jobs? I don't understand this.My husband's company stopped promoting fun and being a team a long time ago. They used to have that attitude that even the people at the bottom were equally important. Not anymore. Now you should give up your hours for the company and help make the guy at the top rich.Joe,You are 100000% correct on your description about working retail.I worked for Pubix Supermarket (2 years of Hell) and the store was always running 'reports' on an hourly, daily and weekly basis. As a manager your # 1 goal was to make as much profit as possible. Your whole life revolved around your department /employees and its associated problems.Any retail job is very tuff and you feel like you are in a meat grinder.I was at Walmart the other day and I understand some people's only option in their life is to work in retail.Retail has a way of making me hate my life. I literally have panic attacks before work because of all the rude customers and stress at my job. I'm being paid pennies and doing the work of three cashiers. I have no life outside of work. I come home and go to sleep. I don't have a "weekend". I rarely get two days off in a row. It's always something like work Tuesday 3 to 10 and then break Wednesday, come back to work 7-3 on Thursday.?I have barely been able to save any money because my bills take up almost all of my paycheck. I feel like I'm trapped. Like I'm never going to get out of this hell. Because it took me almost a year to get this job. A YEAR to get a retail job.?Today I had a woman refuse to take her change because I didn't hand her the coins before the bills. She was yelling at me, demanding me to do it the right way and that cashiers need to know their "place".?God help me, one of these days I'm going to cuss one of these fools out and quit. I'm starting to become an introvert because of this. All I want to do now is be alone.?BUT...at least I have some kind of job. And for that I'm thankful. Haven't started looking again yet, but I just might start again tonight. This job is killing whatever zest I had for life.Purposes of most big businesses are ultimately criminal. Someone suffers somewhere up or down the line in the name of profit. The?business?who keeps the single mother of two in poverty so that their?CEO?can buy a yacht is not one that anyone should want to buy from, but we do it every day because we don't have much else choice. Just because it's not a crime of?law, doesn't mean it's not a crime against humanity. Knowingly and willfully keeping other humans down for your own material benefit is shameful, and yet they all do it.You are actually correct. While most companies brag about their diversity, what they are actually looking for is sameness and group think.Look at any company's annual report and payroll (that is you) is listed under liabilities not assets.Introverts are being made to feel socially unacceptable. We're the new "unwanted minority." Whenever an employer offers me one of those "personality screenings" I always ask who is interpreting it. Most often it is someone unqualified to interpret the results. I no longer waste any time completing these and I tell the companies why. I can't hide my personality - even though I'm a classic introvert, I'm a very outgoing introvert. Introverts with the classic INTJ Myers-Briggs personality USED to be highly sought after for analytical and problem-solving jobs because that's what gave us our?energy. Now companies want gregarious extroverts for every conceivable position.The One World Government will consist of the major?financial?institutions. They already have nearly as much power as the US govt., in fact they can compel the govt. to give them money when they run short. They have become almost immune to attempts to regulate them.Also, we are all bartering. We exchange our time/skills for money. Money are largely more practical to exchange than, say a cow.Money however indicates that one material thing is "worth" more than something else. That wouldn't work. Everything has to be worth the same. There is only "what I can provide" "who needs what I provide" and "what do I need provided by someone else." A doctor who needs a car finds a person who has a car to spare, but needs a surgery. Need is the great equalizer, and it would get rid of everything that someone doesn't really need.Why would your system be different than capitalism? Just because payments wouldn't be made in money wouldn't prevent people from trying to get you to give them something that you really can't afford to give up in return for something that you don't really need.Once people have to actually give something to get something, they'll be a lot more cautious about decision-making with both. Money is just paper,credit?cards are just plastic. People don't really FEEL the hit of buying that $3000 plasma TV, because it went on a piece of plastic that only requires minimum monthly payments. Capitalism supports the notion that you're worth a lot more than you are, that you can pay back a lot more than you can, and before you know it well...we're at where we are now. With banks getting fat on the interest charged on the piece of plastic they gave you.A barter system does not preclude deferred payments. "I will pay you in Spring after the calves are born."I wouldn't pay or provide services in exchange for a "maybe," myself.are the most american young people socialists now?I'm still under 30, so many would consider me "young." I wouldn't consider myself, nor any of my friends, "socialists." Many of us are in favor of a strong social safety net, but I can't recall any of us clamoring for state control of businesses. (I'd be completely okay with a huge?governmentinvolvement with infrastructure projects in the short-term, however, so long as it's temporary, but stimulus leaves a bad taste in people's mouths right now.)so ur a future socialist,u just dont realize it yet.at least ur a democrat right now,are u?I actually tend to align more closely with Libertarian ideals. I've just studied enough?Economics?to see that central banks are a good idea, even if our current one isn't working optimally and have seen enough families in need to want to make sure the poorest among us aren't dying in the streets.I think that the United States should be organized as an anarcho-syndicalist commune. People can be chosen at random to serve for 1 week as president. There will be a bi-weekly vote in which the decisions of the president will be approved, by a simple majority for domestic affairs and a 2/3 majority for foreign affairs.At least this will get everyone involved in the process!I know this sounds silly and futile, but I'm thinking of writing my Congressman and Senator about my situation suggesting they introduce a bill that would give businesses incentive for?hiring?the long-term, involuntarily unemployed. I'll probably blow it off, but it's an idea. I suppose it would go to the same place where resumes go to die. I've never written such a letter because I find it a waste of time and?energy, but what other avenue is left at this point?In the eyes of most politicians, a letter from an unemployed person is like a homeless person walking up to you and asking for spare change.Politicians are convinced that there are millions of unfilled jobs because employers cannot find applicants with the right skills. In Massachusetts, they want to raise the state income tax to invest in 'education' and transportation. They say in MA there are 220,000 unemployed people & 150,000 unfilled job openings because many companies supposedly cannot find people with the skills needed.You can learn at any age, but if you're over 35 you will not get hired because you took classes. I took 47 hours of classes while I was unemployed (with a 3.94 GPA) and it did not help me one single bit.Unfortunately this is true how?hiring?managers perceive it that is why all this talk about "training" & "retraining" is geared toward fresh faced 18-21 year olds. If you are over 35 and think you can retrain in one of the trades that is in such huge demand -- suddenly there are no jobs available or you don't have experience other than what you learned in the classroom even if you passed the state licensing exams but the kid who recently graduated high school who can barely write over text speak is able to get job offers left & rightThis is true. I went to an info session at a well known school here in the Boston area for their continuing ed workforce training programs --Electrician, welding, machine tools,?construction?certificate. Of course they gave the usual cheerleading snowjob, but the 75% enrolled in these classes to 'get ahead' in their current field. Only 15% enrolled for 'career change'. Each class (not the entire track) is over $1350 so you can easily spend close to $10,000 and no?financial?aid is available.?The situation above is absolutely true but the academics,?educationestablishment & mainstream media wont touch it even though they must know it is true (you can't compete with the early 20 somethings) and that you basically are wasting time & money thinking you can career change at an older age as described herePeople who can't even make it through a junior?college?but somehow managed to gain a few years experience working with the right languages and software packages can get good programming jobs while people with graduate degrees can't get anything.Sorry to hear that, clean slate here too. I never get called either. And I am very careful to apply to jobs where I am really qualified. I'm getting fed up with it all and I've scaled down alot sending out resumes. was a real pain..when I applied to some jobs, I had to write essays and all kinds of crap to prove myself. Like what happened to you, I am never contacted. I took down my resume everywhere. has enough apps on file to replace everybody in the?Federal government, twice over. Good Luck with that.I'm applying for a county job. If someone has a family member who can do it, I'll buy a hat and eat it.I've looked at the Border Patrol, and while it looks fun, in a strange way, it doesn't pay that well. The Feds still operate under the lower-pay for good benefits rule, unlike cities and counties in this state who give great benefits, and depending on your union, great pay.As an aside, this is another gripe I have with conservatives. They cry all day about big?government?salaries when the problem is sitting in their backyard pulling people over at the local speed trap and getting overtime to do it.Thing with me is, maybe I'm friggin stupid.I've passed on jobs that just weren't for me.Unifirst, Paychex, and others where your just a number and the stress is high. And, I can see that with these jobs your gone in 10 years so then I'm in my fifties looking again.I don't know anymore.I actually live in a county where the UE rate is above 11 percent so I mainly look for work in other counties. Maybe that's why no one calls me when they see my resume online.I might do car sales. It's something you can do till you drop as long as your mildly successful at it. But it's about getting in at a good dealer.I just don't know anymore.I do think that you will see more and more people working till 80.I'm done! And, I feel better for writing.I'm sure I will be working until I'm 80. I don't see much happening in the future. All I can seem to get are part time jobs or temp jobs. It would be nice to have a job last at least a year. I can't even get those.I wonder if I have any rich relatives out there.I feel a little better knowing I am not alone in this, but sick to my stomach at the same time.?I'm going to lose everything after my EUI runs out next month. I have no more savings, and no more 401K. It's all been used to pay the mortgage.?Unreal that I can't even get work answering phones considering it's what I did for 22 years at At&t.There are many, many people in the same boat.In the 30s, they had things like the CCC, WPA, TVA, etc. to provide for some jobs. Why doesn't the?government?step up and do something today when the unemployment situation is an epidemic?When I got downsized and my UE ran out I had to either cash out my 401K or get 2 part-time jobs to keep me afloat.?Of course there are other considerations as well. I took a warehouse job that paid less than $9/hour. Turned out I am not 20 years old any more and simply can not do that type of work at my age. Then there's a question of state benefits. Am I going to be able to make up for losing most if not all of them at less than $10/hour and do physical damage to myself at the same time? To me that simply is not worth the price.....Yes. I listed both part-time jobs on my resume. For me there was no way I could cover a 2 year gap. Plus the letters of reference helped even if?HR?glanced at them only for a few seconds.There is an article in about Illinois dwindling exports.There's a reason the first thre letters of Illinois are ILL... Illinois be Illin Lol. Seems like everytime I hear a news report about Illinois its about what a sorry fiscal shape that state is in.Meanwhile, I be living in the state of Misery...I think the only way anyone is going to survive unemployment nowadays is to be true to who you are. It sucks but I would rather die today knowing that I didn't become "who they want me to be" rather than who I am.It's sad when good people want to work and just can't get a GOOD job, and the people who are employed have no idea what we are going thru.In large corporations, the forecasting is BELOW actual results. The problem is that productivity and efficiency have increased to a point that there is no need for more workers. Think about an?assembly?line where 10 years ago 25 workers sat building my widget. Recession hit and I laid off 10 workers and reduced my widget production. In that time Company X produced a machine that allows a worker to perform 2 tasks on my widget at the same time. I just became more efficient. Recession is over and requests for my widgets has returned to normal levels. I have 2 choices...rehire those 10 people OR purchase 5 machines (this will give me a boost to my company value and a reduction on my taxable income). I am a company in?business?to make profit. I purchase the machines and have no need to increase my human capital. Those jobs will NEVER be coming back.Hence...we are in a jobless recovery. Productivity and efficiency has increased to a point that humans are not needed as much.I don't even have to move to do that...lolSimply find a manufacturer in another country where I can have my raw products shipped to and have them produce it then send me the finished good. I no longer have to pay for my production plant, wages, and my supply chain has been reduced greatly. I make more profit in the end with the same product going to my buyers.Happens every day.This is why I hate capitalism. Marx said that things would become so efficient that the owners would no longer need human capital (paraphrased). Guess he was right...lolIt reminds me very much of monarchy. In France they guillotined them at a certain point! :)I just don't get it anymore..... We should be enabling everybody we can to get back to work. The more people that are working and earning a respectable salary the better the economy overall. This?government?should be doing everything in it's power to put people back to work. Training should be offered to help people without certain skills obtain them. Why is this so hard?It makes me laugh how the?government?keeps saying that they are doing everything they can to help people into employment. There are thousands of people on job seekers every day and there's no help to find.I know how you feel about it.?There is simply no interest in giving anyone a chance due to the availability of well trained and experienced people. Happy stated made a good statement about it few posts above... profits is what they are after, training means losses...?Most companies are struggling to stay afloat, they are not willing to take too many chances.Most companies are NOT struggling to stay afloat. Profits are at record levels. Companies are not?hiring?because they are: a) able to push more work onto their existing staff; b) have invested in productivity-increasing tools. They can continue to make profits without hiring more workers, so they have no incentive to hire.The US has gone through a fairly rapid change, from an era when jobs were relatively easy to find and when you got one you most likely were there for your career to an era where workers are considered to be an expense which needs to be minimized and to be reduced whenever profits are down. Unfortunately, the political establishment and a large segment of society, particularly the politically important over 65's who are not in the job market, have yet to recognize and/or adjust to the new reality, a reality in which many people will experience periods of unemployment in their lives, even in the absence of a major economic downturn.Hey, no worries. But, let me say this...if a company had a debt ratio of 1.2, is that good or bad? Is it higher than industry normal or lower? Is the company improving or getting worse? Can one ratio determine the overallhealth?of a company? The discussion was on profit and unemployment. As an individual company profit is a stand alone number and "ideally" be connected to employment. I personally disagree with companies that make billions of profit when there are so many people unemployed. One tactic that companies like to make to increase profits is to reduce wages and number of employees. But, then again, that's why I look for companies with high levels of CSR.A very important question though is what are the "never again employed" going to do to survive? Are we just expected to lay down in the street and die? Fill the homeless shelters? The prospect of never working again and living on the street is not very appealing when I have a child and he wants to go to?college.This is related to the point that I was trying to make. Once upon a time, anyone who didn't have a job could move to the "frontier" and survive by hunting and growing their own?food. This is no longer possible. Yet there are still many people who claim that it is possible to survive without a job and without govt. programs, though none of them has ever had to do so. American society has been slow to adapt to the reality that the structurally unemployed do not have a way to support themselves.Sorry Jeff, I was going by the other poster's views. Companies have very little incentive to ever hire again unless the person quits. Human capital is just a body performing a job--any body will do. I guess that is why the DOL stated what they did about people NEVER finding work again.Research "Twilight of the Elites". It offers a hypothesis as to why the ownership class has so little interest in the welfare of the panies will start to hire when they've squeezed all the productivity out of their current staff that they can. There are indications that this has already happened - productivity measurements have flattened or even fallen a bit.I personally don't believe that the US will reach "full employment" again in my lifetime.I think the new normal will be 10%. I also believe that the sun is setting on USa Inc.At the?entry level, they still train.In my area "entry?level" requires 2-4 years of experience. I have not seen many ads that do not require some form of experience. Companies here do not want to train at all.Entry Level?is really 0-2 years. If you have 4 years, I would not consider that?entry?level. I am really referring to recent grads. There is no way for a recent grad to have 2-4 years of experience.Which is why the local universities have a 50-75% unemployment rate depending on your major and level.Some examples from the job boards here:?Accountant: entry level position, 4 years experience as staff accountant requiredCNC Machinist?(whatever that is): entry level, 3 years experience requiredAdministrative assistant: entry level, must be fluent in English, Bachelors, 4-6 years experience requiredDelivery driver: entry level,?CDL, 1-2 year experienceWait Staff: entry level, must have 1-2 years fine dining experience, must be tips certified and have?food?handlers permit?Well I cannot speak for other industries.?Entry Level?may mean something different in other industries. In the?financial?industry,entry?level means exactly what it implies. There are?finance?jobs for recent grads that only require personal attributes and a solid academic background. Recent grads will have no experience, unless they did some summer internships at abank. And that typically is not considered real experience, but just simply exposure to the financial industry and a great learning experience. The big banks will train these grads and pay them less money due to the training.In?general, "entry level" is a euphemism for, "We're going to pay you peanuts."The thing is (I hear this quite often now)...a?college?graduate should have 4 years of experience by the time they graduate college. It is expected that they work while going to school. Part-time during the school year and full-time during the summer. At least that is the way it is around here. Non-traditional students already have full-time jobs and attend night school or online schools to get promoted.In the current vernacular, "entry level" means below average pay. It isn't necessarily correlated with the amount of work experience desired. It is very rare, at least in the?computer?field, to see a job advertised as "entry level" that doesn't require at least 2 years of experience. Jobs that require little if any experience are listed as "recent?college?graduate" positions.When you first start looking you end up spending more time, but after that there isn't much left. How many times can you apply at the same companies before they get sick of you?It's a myth that getting good grades is important. Grades only matter if you want to continue on in school. Employers couldn't care less. The reality is that employers hire for specific skills and personality fits.?Intelligence?and overall ability don't factor in at all. The ability to market yourself effectively is far more important than technical abilityA lot of employed people despise homeless folks and the unemployed. But some of these employed people will inevitably lose their jobs as well. Economy hasn't recovered. Sequestration? Budget cuts? And I don't believe the budget has been "balanced." It's all BS. They will need to strip us of more rights and benefits so they can cover themselves and keep spending.They will take your bonds, pensions, IRAs, social security, they will add more taxes and other fees/surcharges for you to pay. Obamacare just passes the cost of?insurance?to the worker.I think that's the plan.I am all for socialhealthcare. We are the only industrialized nation that ties healthcare to employment. We need healthy workers for a strong state. But, then again, I have been accused of being a socialist before...lolKnowing our?government, they will mess that up too. You can't expect them to do that or anything correctly. They're not that smart.My state is already messing it up by refusing to participate....lolI see I already got a no vote on my comment. Must be from someone that thinks Obama is King and how care I criticize. I suppose that comment will earn me another no vote. See my middle finger? LOLAnyway, I just know how our?government?can't seem to get anything right. They can't even be trusted to tie their own shoes correctly.HH- 12K???! NOT 1200? OMG that sounds unbelievably high. I wonder if they are including those who are temporarily living in the basement/spare room of a friend or relative, if the definition is "someone w/o a permanent address".?I was shocked by the figure here something like 160 in 2011-12, cannot conceive of over 1000 lost souls.?Yeh, the unfortunate are being swept under the carpet or rather under the bus, I am afraid most people have the attitude of the interviewer you'd mentioned prior who "could not stand losers who can't take care of themselves". I have no clue why this would make someone angry instead of sad or wanting to help if they can. I could even understand indifference but not anger over someone else's misfortune.?I dunno bout the May 2013?College?Grads, unless they are well connected it looks like it gonna be retail, retail, retail AND they will be competing for those lovely retail jobs with HS students who are already IN retail and looking for more hours during the summer.?The Big Companies like?IBM?are?advertisingsummer?intern?jobs already, I always wonder who was doing the work the interns are assigned as I gather internships nowadays are more than just getting the boss coffee and making copies, you are really put to work and then who does the work when the interns go back to school, are those the temp jobs they never advertise anymore?NYC has gone from not a lot of homeless, to a literal herd of them. About 6 months ago, Daily Show decided to do a bit in Central Park, where they were making fun of Bloomberg for trying to ban smoking in Central Park, because Central Park is so beautiful...and then they panned to all the homeless in there. I thought they were actors and interns....they weren't.This number counts the people in the shelter and those they could find on the street. I'm sure the number is quite a bit higher because a lot of homeless don't want to be found. They conducted the "count" a few months ago and was calling for volunteers to help with it. They don't count people like me who are essentially homeless but staying with friends or relatives.That's one way to solve the unemployment problem: let the unemployed starve to death and then there won't be any unemployed. I wish that I was joking, but there are people who actually believe this.I am so done! This is beyond ridiculous!! I am going to start interviewing the interviewers. Why not?! Playing the nice role hasn't gotten me anywhere. Treat me like a beggar or criminal of some sort?! Enough! The ONLY reason I am in this position of job seeker now is because I had to quit my job since my EMPLOYER was taking cash receipts (we VERY rarely received cash receipts), and expected ME to hide it in the G/L before I did the monthly closeout! Besides being illegal, it would also cause the COA's MTD wrong but also the YTD, etc!!! And these interviewers want to treat ME with suspicision?! Want to check out my background?! What about theirs? Not just as a company as a whole, but what about them individually? I'm just going to change it up. I used to be proud that I chose my principals (and freedom), over a very good paycheck. I just don't know anymore. I'm tired. Just tired.To Happy or anyone else thinking about coming to California. At a minimum, please don't come here unless you are?bilingual?(Spanish), under 40, good looking, with at least 6 month's rent in the?bank, and have good?credit. Plan on at least $1,500 a month for a place in a decent neighborhood. Can you get by living here on less than I just mentioned? Yes, but I believe it's best to prepare for worse-case scenarios. Unemployment is extremely high, especially in Southern California, and employers here, like everyone else around the U.S., are being especially particular. Some companies NOT in the?entertainment?industry are even suggesting (but not requiring) that applicants send a picture of themselves.Whether it's directly relevant to the position or not, knowing Spanish is MANDATORY for many jobs in So Cal as thecustomer?base and people in charge of?hiring?are increasingly Latinos. This is a fact. If you're coming to L.A. or are going to raise your kids in L.A., please encourage them to learn Spanish.There are lots of good things about So. Cal., but for people under or unemployed, I would say please think twice about moving here.California has one the highest unemployment rates in the nation. My sister lives there and says that people are leaving in droves.?have family in California and had extreme luck in Monterey when it came to getting jobs.If you have family in California, that's great. It's important to have a support system of friends/family wherever you are. Monterey is different than Monterey Park, and if you have had luck in Monterey in the recent past, then great. I prefaced my statements to L.A. and So. Cal in particular because this is the area I grew up and what I know. The REAL state of the economy here is largely underreported. The competition here is extremely fierce. Experience,education, great references are increasingly not enough here unless you know someone on the inside AND have the age/appearance factor going for you. Even when you have all that going for you, you've got hundreds more vying for the same ONE minimum wage position.Unemployment is getting to me... They say the economy is getting better, but this really doesn't seem so... I am at a loss.80k jobs created. UE rate dropped a tenth caused people stopped looking.yea but if you do, the new job can't know about it.You know how threatened all these employers are; they're like the Red Party. You only can have allegiance to them, or they?fire?you if they ever find out. With the way wages have been pushed down in this economy, many of us will have to have a second job or earn money on the side somehow. A third world country is one where having 1 job no longer sustains you.See, I told everybody we're living in a Third World. Everybody makes the same piddly wage whether you're a Ph.D. or a burger flipper. You can have 3 jobs now: PhD., burger flipper and some other job too. And you can collect?food?stamps on the side, as the 3 jobs won't pay enough. - While the illegals gain citizenship and?education?on your tax dollars, and the prisoners get?law?degrees in prison. - Nice –sad thing is. no matter how much you show your allegiance to said company, THEY have no problem getting rid of you to save a penny.So Caterpillar, Inc. is laying of 300 workers in Milwaukee.CEO?at Caterpillar spoke at?business?immigration coalition in Chicago a few days later. He said there should be more visas for engineers from overseas and to make it easier for illegal immigrants to become citizens.The company?claims?it has trouble filling higher and lower level jobs (yeah, right). Here's what he said "Today, we (employers) have gaps in our workforce," he said. "We have trouble filling highly skilled positions like engineers and scientists. We also have trouble filling many lower-skilled positions."It's getting deep around here. Time to get the hip waders out. Typical greedy company for you.this country is being flooded by foreign illegals and H1Bs.U.S. Citizens are now the abandoned class. We're the lowest caste here now.Thank greedy corporate America for that. Politicians are in on it, they want the votes and $handouts.Sooner or later civil unrest by citizens is inevitable. That, or mass exodus.YOU CANNOT HAVE A MODERN SOCIETY WITH ONLY 2 CLASSES, THE RICH AND THEIR WORKING SERFS.Wall Street, K Street and TBTF banks. There is a revolution coming to America if the course is not corrected. How long are the poor and middle class going to keep putting up with heartless, hateful wealthy liars before they finally come after them and tear their world apart?? Something always has to break in situations like this!!!! Sooner or later there's going to be another American Revolution!!!It's going to be a long, hot summer!"If you don't make peaceful revolution possible, you make violent revolution inevitable."--JFK.It will be later rather than sooner. There is little realization in American society about how unequal things have become and not much interest in changing anything among those who do realize. Many people from all social classes believe that the wealthy really did build it themselves. Many people from all social classes believe that they someday will be wealthy (a poll taken in 2000 found that 39 percent of Americans either thought that they were in the top 1 percent or expected to someday be in the top 1 percent).We're far, far away from any revolutions in this country. Who's going to start it? The people with no money? It won't happen in this country.What we need is reform that goes far enough.We're still a democracy and still have freedom. There's nothing better than that as far as systems of?government?go.We just need jobs. That would fix everything. Real jobs.I used to be pretty well off. I've felt both sides of it - not that I was 1%. But I had a job,?health?insurance, assets, cash and a 401k. All just about gone now except for the crib.You can lose it all and many do. I thought I had a pretty good cushion at the start of this thing. Now, sitting on hard?concrete.THAT is it in a nutshell. I just don't see thisadministration?doing anything about jobs any time soon, if at all. It hasn't been on the forefront since 2008 promises, and don't see it being a priority until the next group of talking head candidates.Meanwhile, the stock market continues to remain at an all time high. Go figure.The market is totally disconnected from the economy now. It's not an indicator at all anymore. It's gone up, so the economy should have followed, right? Well, that's not really happened, has it? Of course, if this were a political argument, we'd have O people come on and say how many jobs have been created, etc. It's smoke and mirrors. I know better. And I'm not the only one. It's just that nobody likes to talk about it anymore because we have a rock god and goddess to worship in DC. I just don't get it at all how these people are so loved and worshiped.Take it from me. I spent 15 years in the securities industry. There is very little connection between the stock market and the job market anymore.Nobody says, "I am thinking about buying 100 shares of Oracle. I wonder what the unemployment rate is?"Sometimes the stock market will drop for no apparent reason and saying that it did because of a job report is just convenient. Again, very little correlation.?I used to be pretty well off. I've felt both sides of it - not that I was 1%. But I had a job,?health?insurance, assets, cash and a 401k. All just about gone now except for the crib.You can lose it all and many do. I thought I had a pretty good cushion at the start of this thing. Now, sitting on hard?concrete.It's sad but there are millions of Americans in your exact situation. Living the American dream... then they are down to nothing a few years later. I was watching a 60 minutes segment where school buses had reroute the student pick ups routes at very low budget motels in central FL because their parents lost their house and are now living day to day in some seedy run down motel.Yet Obama still says everything is just sunshine & roses....?The unemployment number is below 8% and dropping ...?Our economy is picking up...Bull $*#+ !!!!!!!I count as employed with this rinky dink part-time job. I make nowhere near what I used to make. And I don't have any benefits. I'm really playing with?fire. I really, really need this other job to come through. D-Day could come tomorrow or later in the week. I'll either be elated or totally crushed. No way around the latter if I don't get it. It's impossible to not attach emotion to it. I've not had any other real interviews in six months.Read: and see all the good paying decent jobs that are being cut.?Caterpillar will lay off over 460 employees in June at their Decatur Illinois plant... But Obama will just pay that's things keep getting better and we are headed in the right direction.The only thing keeping our economy going is very low interest rates on car loan / home loans that artificially stimulate growth. For me I have circled the wagons and won't buy a new car even though my Civic is 10 years old with 175,000 miles.When I would go to the DOL I'd see kids filling out 100 question multiple choice test online for stocking the shelves at Shoprite?Grocery Store. A popular store up here.Hey, do you all think that just maybe, this always hovering around 7.7% unemployment, is actually going to be the new norm unemployment rate? I'm starting to think so. Just seems like they're trying to keep us adjusted to accepting it. Like maybe an unemployment rate of 10%+ will be the new norm that the economy is in bad shape? Just a thought. Hope everyone is having a great Saturday! :)Today read about the W Visa, grr. In a few yrs they may cap this at 200K. I am low-skilled and available for work too. Imagine if they hire these foreigners AND train them. The article in Time mentioned how employers have all these low skill jobs they cannot fill? I wonder if they even ADVERTISE where most Americans can find it?A supremely annoying?HR?"expert" (won't mention the site name in order NOT to drive traffic) said that if you're long term UE and are depressed you NEED TO take antidepressants so you'd come across as more positive! This person has no clue at all. yeh I've taken them and they certainly don't create positive thoughts or increase motivation just enable you to care less. I'd rather not have any blinders on and face life head on come what may even if I am unemployable and doomedHow bad is an IT career? According to an article on linkedin, salaries actually DECREASE substantially for IT workers who are over 50! The peak earning years for IT workers are in their 40's. Even for workers in their 30's and 40's, pay raises are SMALLER for workers who have graduate degrees.Yep, my friend's fella has been a naughty boy in recent times (growing marijuana and getting caught), and he's just started a new job last week!! He only had to do 120 hours of?community?service (working in a charity shop), and that was it. He had two job offers and took the one where he'd be working in the Docklands.I'm gonna rob a?bank?now in the hopes that I land my dream job, laters!in the states we already have people that make very good money robbing banks and nobody arrests them ever. in fact, they give the bank robbers even more of their money. We call these people "Congressmen".Personal rant for the day...went to a?hiring?fair where over 500 people showed up for 50 spots...all spots went to Spanish speakers. The company rep came out, called names and sent everyone else home. Ugh!Question of the day: When and why did we become a country of "what" rather than "who"? Example: sons teacher asked them all "what" they wanted to be when they grew up and told my son he couldn't just "be" happy when he grows up. I teach him to be himself at all times, like himself for all his faults and greatness, and to pursue what makes you happy. Money and status is NOT what makes the world go around.Happy thought of the day: Every second of today something new was created...a person, an?animal, a tree, a plant, a dream, an idea, new things came to life today.nteresting. Thanks for posting from Utah. I've commented on it before, and I don't care how it sounds. It may be too late for us over 35+, but please, so that the generation after us is not at a disadvantage in the workplace, encourage young people to learn Spanish. Like it or not, Spanish is the new English.Also what has actually been crystalized for me since reading these forums is that getting a particular degree or license at an "advanced age" may or may not increase one's chances of employment...especially if you have no experience in that field. I'm so glad I realized this before taking the leap.Q. So now what? A. I don't know.I refuse to learn Spanish. I speak many languages and will never "encourage" my son to learn Spanish for the sake of a job. It's BS anyways. If you want a career in?business?Japanese?is still great to learn, computers is Hindi,?government?jobs is?French. Spanish is being dictated because one group of immigrants refuses to learn the "common language" because they, for the most part, do Not want to be American. My son is learning?German(his heritage) and French (because he wants to be an?International?green?architect.But this is my opinion and others are entitled to theirs. I just know what has happened to my?city's schools after bringing in dual immersion rather than ELL classes.?I feel for you. It's like nails on a chalkboard when someone innocently asks, "Have you tried some of the local job fairs?" I too have had very disappointing experiences with them. I can't wait until I file for an extension to unemployment and the DOL will most likely require I attend one of these, along with lessons on how to write a resume.As I have said before, many people have not been affected by The Great Recession and either hold little sympathy for those of us who have or its just an abstraction in their minds. Hence, all the pithy and useless advice.I read somewhere that for every Arby's that opens, like 500 people apply to work there.Not that this helps y'all's mood, but so long as it's true, anyone who says the economy is improving is full of poop.Nick,When I was living in Miami, FL there was a Chick-Fil-A that wasn't even finished being built and they received over 2000 job applications.A local TV station even did a segment on the people needing jobs.?I heard Chick-Fil-A pays better than other fastfood places.I had my resume posted on CB and Monster for all too long. The only result was massive amounts of spam. I haven't even looked at CB or Monster for quite some time now. Their "job match" algorithm apparently could not identify anything remotely relating to what I was looking for.My experience with?government?jobs, is to only apply for them if you have military experience. Ex-military is all over like white on rice, and they get an automatic 10-20 point bump on all test scores, just for being who they are. Rightfully so, IMHO...just saying an average fella like myself has no chance at most of them from minute 1 of day 1.I remember testing to be an Immigration Officer in Boston. The agent who administered the test was in a suit, of course. I was in slacks and a tie. Everyone else came in like we were back in homeroom of high school....pajamas, some of them. Toting large iced coffees. I didn't even get called in for an interview...I think I scored an 85 or 88 on the test, but some of the folks in there were vets, national guard, etc. They could have gotten a 70 and still gotten a 90, so.?I would love to have a govt job. But, it ain't happening.I don't know. I have mixed feelings about being in the process. I may be too "git r done" and direct for thegovernment?environment. A cousin is a manager and she says it's impossible to?fire?people. Now, in a sense, that's a great place to work, but, in another sense, not so great.For a job where it's almost impossible to get fired, you're in a union, you're making above-average pay for unskilled work, I think most people could bite their tongues and look the other way.I think that the long-term employed are more likely to be hired by the "government" than private employers.Whenever I have to go to a government office, I see no greater number of minorities, older people, disabled people, and "non-model" types. My dream job is now to work in any government office. When I was in my 20s, I would not have considered it.Good Luck! I heard on the radio that has enough applications on file now to replace everybody in theFederal government?twice over.During recessions there is always this flight to safety. My personal opinion is that this cannot continue. The public sector makes nothing and is dependent on the private sector for tax revenue and just look how this is working out?THe reason why the?Federal?government isn't in quite the mess that the states are is because they cannot print money. The Fed cannot do it indefinitely either.The unemployment rate isn't enough to bring down the house just yet but anymore who thinks we are in a recovery is as my ol' Daddy use to say, "Shi**ing in some tall cotton". You cannot have the government be a growth industry.Thanks for the info on USAjobs and overall insight on the state of public sector jobs. I've only recently pondered these issues, but what you say makes sense. This is like a really bad dream. I'm out of ideas.It's pretty sick that lately I find myself overly concerned about my husband's well-being...he asks me "How many times are you going to ask me how I feel?"I am originally from California. Saw one company after another just pack up and leave. Years of overtaxing and overregulation and now the economy is in the toilet and as far as new industry is concerned, the state is on the Avoid List.The state still has money but with an ever decreasing tax base, we see a lot of California license plates coming here too. The locals hate 'em.I travel between Los Angeles County and Kern County on a regular basis, and there is so much traffic in the middle of the day and so many people people hanging out at outdoor coffee shops in the middle of the day that I wonder whether unemployment is more in the 50% range. The supermarket lots are full during the day when people should be at work, and there just seem to be a lot of people hanging like they have nowhere to go, nothing to do. Maybe I'm just more aware of it now that I have nowhere to go and nothing to do.I totally empathize with everyone who don't have job and are job searching. I am currently employed, but I am searching as well. It's hard even if you are already employed. I have filled out several applications but no response yet except one state job that is under review---whatever that means. I am going to remain optimistic.I do not know if many of you believe in God, but if it wasn't for Him I would probably lose my mind. He keeps me going everyday...Helps me to deal with my current boss who is difficult to get along with. Keep the faith everyone....a breakthrough is soon to come.The thing is years ago people didn't care as much about having careers. Not as many people went to?college. Now it's much more important to not just have any old boring job and to be educated.When I worked in a?factory, I hated telling people what I did for a living. It was just a paycheck and what a boring job that was. Lots of hard work. I felt good telling people that I was going back to school for something more interesting. You see where that got me. Lots of part time jobs and laid off all the time. That's more embarrassing then telling people you work in a factory. You still would never get me to work in a factory ever again, unless I get an office job.There are allot of Sale jobs out there, especially the ones with publicly traded companies, where the STRESS is just out of hand. Why?Because if at the end of the year the comp doesn't meet Wall Street's expectations then no one will invest in the company. And as a result millions and millions will be lost.Sell, Sell, Sell!!!! Doesn't matter if the client doesn't need nor want it. Sell, Sell, Sell. They don't want to hear legitimate reasons why something can't be sold. If they tell you to sell water guns in the wintertime then you better find a way to sell them.Large companies really dont' care about their customers. In fact they are trying to tell them what is good for them and what to buy.I could go on and on and on but clown nrop is on.I could of been employed by now but I don't want the 24/7 STRESS?anymore. Life is too too short.So, a few minutes ago, the so called news reported that there is a national uptick in traffic by 4%. The news?claims?more people are?driving?due to more jobs, hence an improving economy.Thoughts?I heard the same news report. It's subject to interpretation. I don't interpret more traffic to a growing economy or that people are driving to "work."You cannot spend all of your time in the house online looking for jobs. It's not healthy or productive. People may be driving for leisure. Unless you're going to interview said?drivers, it's all silly speculation.Increased traffic during "standard?business?work hours" -- that's something I wouldn't mind seeing a study on. For it to be a credible study, however, you have to show me that you've stopped each car and asked each?driver?where they were going. Short of that, it's just speculation and means nothing -- just like this latest news report.At the rate things are going, I swear I will never be independent from my parents home. I am literally about to go insane with this need to get out. But I can't and it's killing me. Minimum wage and no end in sight. No car, no real possessions other than clothes, not even my own room and several thousand dollars of student loans from an apparently worthless and pointless degree. I'm made to feel stupid everyday in this crap retail job, I can't ever do enough for these people. Can't ever clean enough, smile enough, wait on customers hand and foot enough etc. I'm starting to feel dead inside. And there are still no jobs for me to apply to. Just the same junk posted over and over again. I don't know how to keep from losing my mind.This job hunting thing is?driving?me crazy!If I showed up at an interview, and did any or all of the following, they would ask me to leave:- dressed like a slob?- thirty minutes late?- answered emails or looked at my cell phone ringing on the desk in front of me during the meeting?- yawned, looked bored, not paying attentionYET - it seems to be acceptable for the interviewers to demonstrate this type of poor and disrespectful behavior. During the course of my job interviews, I have experienced ALL of the above.It is rude, and it makes me want to get up and walk out or at least say something to the interviewer, but I do not dare.There is no such thing as professional courtesy anymore. They seem to feel that since they are holding your fate in their hands, that they can display any boorish behavior they please.Mind you, I have been to some interviews that were pleasant, professional and courteous. And they provided follow up afterwards and answered my emails or phone calls, even if it is to say they have not decided or I did not get the job (I did not get the jobs though )Unfortunately, it is the bad interviews that stick out most in my mind. Do they realize that I am not working and that the gas money I am spending is coming out of what little income EI is providing me? This money is going towards someone else making me feel badly about myself.No wonder people stay on the dole for so long, the act of looking for a job is a very humiliating and frustrating experience!Doesn't seem fair to me!I've come to the conclussion that those of us who are't outgoing, friendly, social butterflies who always have a smile on their face are doomed. This world just isn't set up for, let alone nice to, those of us who would rather just sit and do our job and not be forced to talk to clients who irritate us more often than not. There is no fixing corporate America unless the big wigs start embracing change and listening to their employees who are on the front line and deal with, not just see, but deal with all the problems they cause by "making things better" with unnecessary changes, punish the employees who aren't doing their jobs and are screwing up left and right and not those of us who try to always do things right or threaten us with losing our jobs if we don't shut up about a problem, big or little.And I do know nice people get ahead, but the point is everyone shouldn't have to be super outgoing, super friendly, people people just to get a decent job that doesn't make you want to jump off a bridge every morning at just the thought of going in. As my current job did with my boss before the current one(prior boss was a nightmare, current boss is a nice guy). Not all of us are social butterflies who thrive on human interaction, but yet corporate American insists on treating us like we are while all the while its slowly killing those of us who aren't. I can be a friendly, nice person, but with my job affecting me the way it does, its getting harder and harder to even try being that way(add to that my personal problems....). Just another reason of many that I would love to have a significant other that can help me pay the bills so I could take a job at a small company that pays less and not have to worry about trying to just get by. I'm an introvert, not an extrovert and never will be.So remember how I said I may be getting back to my old payrate, soon? Yeah, not going to happen. They picked the candidate who had already been working there....AGAIN. Even had the nerve to tell me that my action plan was better, but he was just there longer. The message I take from that is, "we're satisfied with the status quo." What's the point in even trying to do better?I'm stupid poor again. 2 weeks pay goes right to rent, 1 week goes right to the gas and tolls it takes to get to work. I essentially give them one week a month free. I only hold on, because they keep saying bright spots are up ahead, and because frankly after two years of getting rejected left right and center, the thought of looking for a new job makes me want to drink myself unconscious.Corporate America never ceases to baffle me. Actions and words often the complete opposite of each other.... Exactly how to companies keep doing so very well with such poorbusiness?operations?Sorry to hear that Nick.Time for a new trade with a?chemistry?teacher?My last company was a 9 billion company and frankly I have no idea how they were always growing year after year because of their policies and very poor client/customer service.Truth is most of the growth was buying up competitors and keeping expenses/salaries down.The stories I could tell. :)Would love to know how that is. All my co-workers who are social are incapable of doing their jobs wihout screwing up left and right. My boss has said that I am better at my job than my co-worker. One of our assistants just recently had to go because of incompetence and they were social.All reasons why corporate America is screwed up. It rewards the morons no matter how dumb, or mean or psychotic, they are as long as they are outgoing, social butterflies and screws over those of us capable of doing the job but we just aren't super social. It punishes the good, rewards the bad. I can not change the core of my being, so I will never be an outgoing, social butterfly and its beyond ridiculous I get screwed because of who I am. We need a change, but those that can bring that change about don't give a crap about this because they're well off, so not affected.Applying is painless and I have pretty much given up on the hope of ever getting into a Fortune 500 type company.At one of my networking groups, they said, if you are over 40 you can almost forget about working for a Fortune 500. Not that you would want to.Fortune 500's are responsible for most of the downsizing and companies with less than 300 employees are responsible for 70% of the?hiring?now. This is a different job market than it was 20 years ago.If "age discrimination" starts in your 30's, I guess "cremation" starts in your 50's....sigh*I really don't know what that means. What I am really sick of is constantly reading these bleeding heart articles from such 'news' sources like CNN, Yahoo, Huffington Post & USA Today about how these precious 'millenials' (basically the entitled kids in their 20's have it so bad when in reality it is just the opposite when you look deeper into the employment reports), just because they feel entitled and can't manage their debt doesn't mean that others should have to foot the bill..I agree with you partway Nick but the truth is, a lot of Millenial kids were told by their parents to "follow their dreams" and "go to your dream school"! Never mind if it was 2x more than what the state?collegelocally would have cost, or even the cost to attending a?community?college and then transferring after a year or two. I get that a good bulk of my generation has no idea what it means to work, but let's face it, a lot of our parents fed us s$!+ for brains.This is part of the problem with the oversaturation of degrees in the economy. Now we have people getting their masters compounding the problem to get?entry-level jobs. Those are the people competing with the rest of us who want our work experience and accomplishments to act as our merits, but it doesn't look like that's how the world works anymore.Sorry that should be : "I'm in my very late 20s" and "did not finish?collegebecause I decided to pay off my student loans"what that means of course is that you don't have that tiny piece of parchment that means everything to them because then they know how desperate you are to get any sort of job to pay off your loans. since you have no student debt, to them you aren't desperate enough to take the first thing that rolls along. That's your punishment for being responsible.They won't budge on pay either. the pay sucks (even as a single man, I will barely be able to afford rent, gas, and groceries) and there isn't the guarantee that you'll be promoted or get a raise for good performance. They cut salaries, cut hours. Yet, they can afford to give nice juicy bonuses to their executives and?CEO's. When you are single and young, they take for granted that you need basic necessities to live. We always get the raw deal concerning hours and especially pay. And I'm not even talking about the luxuries that people think are necessities.Which is ridiculous of them because I still have to live. Maybe I should be more irresponsible, those seem to be the ones they hire and keep on, no matter much they run the company into the ground.You should've grown up practicing?golf, or been blessed with a wicked fastball. or learned to rap.?The trend is now, if you aren't good enough to be an athlete, or entertainer, you need to have an MBA to get ahead. MBA or the NBA. those are your choices. the rest of us are just searching for scraps. Funny, I thought the gap between rich and poor was supposed to get smaller with Democrats in office.Democrats and Republicans are on the same side. They only fool a few, with their "opposing" rhetoricI too have noticed most employers are NOT young themselves, but you just have to reach a certain age to KNOW when you are being discriminated. And that is not to say I don't think it's really hard for younger people too! I give you tons of?credit?for paying your loans as you went along. I did the same. But getting back to this topic of age discrimination, I have literally gone to interviews that seem to go well when I am talking with management, only to have the?CEO?come in and ask with a look of impatience, "and what year did you graduate HIGH SCHOOL?" What???? People that don't think age discrimination exists have never felt discriminated. It's like racism. It's so easy to say that doesn't exist until you have felt it personally. And if you are wondering why an employer would discriminate against an older worker, I took this summation from one of thousands of articles that exist on the subject;?"The GAO report cites several studies that explain why companies FAVOR younger workers: They typically earn less; employers expect they'll have less of an impact onhealth care?costs; and they won't have an issue working for a younger boss. Employers also worry that older workers' technical skills are out of date, and, since they're obviously closer to retirement, they'll bail faster."i didnt graduate from?college?(it's my secret shame)and my major was?Biology. not related to my career field right now.Don't be ashamed. I'm beginning to feel like college is a waste of time. It all depends on who you know. You could be the worst person in the class, but if you know the right people you'll get a job.?Right now I absolutely regret going to and finishing college. It has caused nothing but broken dreams and loads of debt.I worked 3 years in a deli Dept for a big supermarket in FL and it was pure hell.So I know how unhappy you feel working retail with idiot managers and bozo customers.I keep telling myself this, but it's really hard right now. I just want a job that I can feel fulfilled in.Thats still dreaming. Don't look to work to make you fulfilled, its called 'work' for a reason. This might sound harsh but the image we have in our minds of our 'dream' job is usually not related to reality. I know far too many people that are looking to leave what they thought was going to be amazing.Keep applying, ignore your manager to the best of your ability, stop caring so much what the idiot says or thinks. Think of the pay cheque.Can well relate. I have alot of solid experience in many things, but like you, I get immediately eliminated by jobs that state, "Bachelor degree required". That is such BS! Come to learn here on the boards that companies do that for one reason only (when a degree really isn't required); they do it to simply eliminated the hundreds, if not thousands of applicants for one job. It's such a shame. My greatest accomplishments in the work world happened because I had good management and some good people willing to train me. It wasn't that long ago that a good attitude and good work ethic was actually valued MORE than formal?education.I am just going to sit back and watch the education bubble burst. If the average kid needs to go into the hole for over 100K, just to get a four year degree, do we all really believe this can go on, unchecked???? These poor kids can't get anything to even put a dent into the loans they have outstanding, unless they were lucky enough to get a helping hand into the door of a big corporation.?I stumbled upon discussions of a paper, actually published in a legitimate academic research journal, titled "A Stupidity-based Theory of Organizations". The authors have actually found that a company's productivity declines if it hires too many smart people. Productivity is maximized when the employees are not clever enough to see potential problems or flaws in the company's vision or decisions.It follows that promotions tend to go to those who uncritically buy into the company's vision, which helps explain why the most intelligent workers rarely advance too far up the corporate ladder.It boils down to who they can brainwash and who kisses their butt the most. They don't want anyone who will question things. They want Stepford employees.I am so glad to have found this rand session because I seriously need to rant/get feedback because I feel like I am at rock bottom right now.I graduated?college?thinking life was gonna just fall into place...that was a joke. I started applying for jobs with my degree and NO luck its been a year and I work off and on in retail and have to live with my parents because I am completely broke all the time. I find every job wants someone with experience, but on the other hand you are over experienced for stuff. This economy makes no sense, im trying to get my foot in the door at hospitals but its near impossible when one minute they say I am not experienced enough so I apply for another job and they say im too experienced. I feel like I will never get a job an have money I desperately try to motivate myself but as soon a I get on and apply for 2-3 jobs im usually in tears because of all the stress it brings. Im over it, I just want a JOB!?If you want to see what the dumbest people in NY state look like just visit the Dept of?Labor?offices.I, Joe taxpayer, pay for this stupid sh^t too. I feel like telling them go get a job and get off the welfare rolls because essentially that's what these Labor Reps are...bums who do no work.Wow.....I almost understand it, not that I ever see myself doing this. But seeing someone struggle to just put?food?on the table is so sad. There is the misconception that one can always go on food stamps or collect welfare. I can't speak for other states, but here, even truly needy people are turned away. Actually, you can't even get through to a live voice at the DPW. There are so many stories I can tell here about middle class people now living in poverty; people that did everything right, went to school, worked two jobs, tried to put money away...all the things they used to tell us that would ensure at least a roof over our heads and basic provisions during hard times.Blue, I bet there is a growing underground?business?with shady doctors that are willing to sign some papers to deem someone "disabled". Perhaps that is why I am seeing more and more "Disabled" parking spots created...LOL.On a more positive note, I did ask one of my interviewers how many resumes she received for the office management position. She said 50-60. I was surprised it wasn't far more. On the other hand, what surprised her was that they all currently have jobs. Well good!! Hope the employers are starting to feel just a little bit of the nervousness some of us have been feeling on and off for years now!So went to my mandatory DOL meeting yesterday. There were about 30 of us long termers. So the DOL heading the meeting wants to discuss with us why we aren't employed yet. Says, "there are sooooo many jobs out there", you MUST be doing something wrong.One of her (the DOL lady) suggestions? For us to start reading the obits for job leads!!! Ummm....no!! Don't get me wrong. I'll take any job, but reading the obits find hoping to come across someone's untimely death?!Yup, our "friends" at the DOL are so out of touch, it's baffling. So many jobs? Like part time at WalMart,?Home Depot, Target, Office Depot etc? How are those low paying positions supposed to help us?Seriously. Once you take these jobs, they cut off your gov't benefits, regardless if it's Unemployment,food?stamps, or public assistance. I have friends who are bouncing between all of the above. They cut you off and you have LESS than what you had on your already measly benefits. So you end up going back into the system.These a*s jobs cycle you in and out. The paper pushers make money and keep themselves busy processing you. But your resume ends up looking like scheit and you're stuck in poverty. You're better of refusing those a*s jobs.There are even enough of those type of jobs anymore. My neighbor's grandson has made the rounds of Targets and Home Depots, etc., and so far - nothing.I know!! Even in New York?City, with its 5...5 boroughs, and all the big box retail stores. All you gotta do is walk into one: you only see YOUNG, MINORITY workers. I don't see 40 or 50 somethings there. And then this age and race discrimination is confirmed o their Taleo or other ATS online applications. "Are you under 18 and over 40"? What the hell is that? There is a thread on this issue here.A lot of those jobs are also like mine: part time - no benefits.And if you have Medicaid, like me and others I know around here, they either cut you off or make you pay into it, once you take these amazing part time no benefits jobs. So that creates ANOTHER HARDSHIP. You end up losing your?insurance. So to sum it up: you end up losing your insurance and benefits for a part time scheit a*s job that pays crap and no benefits? And most of these wonderful jobs have a very high turnover rate so they will lay you off after 3-4 months. Then you have to try to get back into the system? Nice...Is that a smart trade off? I don't get it, do these paper pushers think we're all retards???Cos last time I looked, my GPA was 3.9 in a Paralegal B.S. from a private?college. All this is on my resume. Clearly I am not a retard - or any of us here or elsewhere. If someone gives you 2 jelly beans back for the 4 you give them. Is that a fair exchange? Do you profit or is that a loss? Grade school math problem, right?? - I think the actual retards are the paper pushers, who all have jobs. :)Precisely. We lose state/federal?benefits. The help to us = big fat goose egg (actually less since we have less to survive on), benefit to the state/feds, "another person gainfully employed!"I was at the Home Depot the other day and saw the woman from the DOL. You think she would say hi, I haven't seen you at the DOL in a long time have you found a job yet Joe? Just ignores me.It's actually like welfare. We give these people money and pay for their great benefits to not do any work. What do you do...I make copies all day.I remember when I would go to the DOL. I actually went because for 18 months I never told my mom (mum) that I was laid off. So off I went in the morning dress to go to work but ended up at the DOL to use their resources. (which actually s*ck)Like most people I can read body language and also sometimes I would hear little snippets from the DOL staff about the unemployed. They just assume that there is something wrong since we are unemployed for a long time.Now more than ever the unemployed are good middle and upper class people struggling financially.But like Blue has said, there are still more people out there that have never been affected by layoffs and just have no clue.There was actually this retired DOL worker who was at the Center one day. This yo yo was there to give out rhubard from his garden. LOL. He made a negative comment about the unemployed to another worker when I was there and I actually left because I just was so upset.I think years ago most of the unemployed people were lazy. And this way of thinking wrongly has continued to this day. But nowadays the unemployed are?collegeeducated upper middle class who aren't lazy.Part of the reason our native population is decline is because WE CAN'T AFFORD TO HAVE CHILDREN. Why? Because OUR JOBS ARE BEING GIVEN AWAY. This influx of immigration needs to stop. How is a young man supposed to set down roots and raise a family when he has to spend years and years in college, only to get a crappy job with a low wage, if he's lucky. Our wages are being depressed due to this influx. Our youth can no longer bring home the bacon with blue collar jobs. How are we supposed to raise families in these conditions?Fed regs made my wife unemployable. Effing NCLB and Bummer's additional regs mandate a masters in subject to even be hired now as a teacher.?It didn't matter how much experience my wife had in teaching inner city schools with great success. It didn't matter that she had a masters in education. or BS degrees in biology, chemistry and laboratory science. When we moved, she got offered the first job she interviewed for. The state said no due to federal mandate that she have a masters in math to teach middle school math.Thankfully the state we moved to is so much less expensive to live in than MA that we found we lived better on 40% lower income and did just fine on a single income. But now some democrats call us tax evaders. [Next time they control DC you know they will find a way to penalize married single income families in order to force people to either divorce or push both into working.]We've all been there. You can't ever?bank?on any interview turning into a job. Always keep looking until you get an offer. I know it's impossible to not get emotionally attached to something you think you might have, but it is always best to keep moving forward until you get that offer. Employers are simply taking advantage of the huge pool of available candidates and hem and haw their way through the whole process. Keep going and good luck.Who would ever guess that it is the new "normal" to go through numerous interviews for a position, only to have a big fat nothing in a way of an answer in the end of whether you have a job with them or not. Seriously! I think when you have had more than one interview, surely they are only dealing with a handful of finalists. The arrogance is mind boggling. It goes right along with the mentality of certain members of Congress who have the guts to demonize the elderly collecting a small social security check, all the while paying themselves exorbitant salaries and enjoying free?health care.Still no sort of job appear and virtually anything that is?entry levelnow requires two years experience or at least one year experience.I think we have to conclude that there isn't a?laborshortage in some professions. Coincidentally, most of those professions appear to be knowledge-based work and in another remarkable coincidence those are the jobs that are easily off-shored.So true Joe. I know the more highly sought after people don't need to even look online. They have enough ties in the?business?world to get them interviews, even if they have to travel. If you are anything short of a six figure income, you are scrambling with millions of other people. There is no in between.There isn't anymore. We have been carving out the middle class for over 30 years now. Why? According to economists, middle class was a result of manufacturing. People built Buicks, Zenith televisions and Maytag washing machines. That's gone now.The New Economy is more of a wasp waist. Big at the top and the bottom, skinny in the middle. Like my sister says, "Today, you either own a McDonalds or you work in one".WOW if i worked for the IRS I could have employment protection and paid?administrativeleave. You dont need to know any thing, just say "I dont know" or "I dont remember." Thats the perfect place to seek employment....just sayinThat is the most sickening.. Thanks for pointing that one out. Compare the same situation; if your boss inquired about some problem and you simply said, "I've done nothing wrong and now plead the Fifth.." You'd BE FIRED and have to fight just to get UI benefits lest you be called "insubordinate."Hi all,It has been a long time since I posted. A few months ago I was offered a temp job, but they changed the terms and I could not take it. Mostly because it was to involve a lot of travel in my car in bad areas. Nope. So, shortly after that, I got sick and wound up in the?hospital. A lot of it was due to the stress of being unemployed. 2 weeks ago, I was offered another temp job at a different place. It is only for 6 weeks.What I have learned from being back in the working world-there is NO training. You better figure it out and figure it out fast. Everyone at my new place is doing the work of 3 people. It is a mess. You have to have a thick skin because people get frustrated when you do not know something. I am taking it all in stride. I cannot get sick like that again.So, in a month, I will be back looking. I have been sending resumes to everywhere, as usual. I have a Master's degree and 3 years experience. I had an interview a couple of weeks ago for a Bachelor's level job and was told I did not have enough experience. They asked me stupid, stupid questions that were printed from the web.At this point, I am not sure what I am going to do. I have a huge amount of student loans that I cannot possibly pay from short temp jobs and bad salaries.About 4 of my classmates were lucky enough to know the right people and landed fabulous jobs. They are buying houses and going on vacations. I am shopping at thrift stores.I don't know anymore. But what I do know is that if you lose your?health, you are in an even worse way.Wow! I didn't hear about that! I looked it up on the Internet and it happened in Josephine County, which is southwest part of Oregon, borders with California. It's pretty rural and they don't have a lot of resources. Still, that is horrible! =[Catfish--the area was also in FED jurisdiction, the woman called BOTH local and state police and no one came to help. Could not believe the 911 operator would say, "If he assaults you," which he later did, "can't you just ask him to go away?"Don't know why we need guns.. If we're robbed, assaulted, just be polite and ask the criminal to stop. Simple.This is crazy...Even if the police weren't on duty, they should be on call for emergencies like this. The residence voted down a levy to pay for increased funding for?law enforcement, which would have increased their property taxes. I guess they're tired of paying more taxes and seeing little change. :|In Portland my property taxes are outrageous. I get discouraged because nothing seems to change, no improvements, yet they keep asking for more money...government?continues to waste! It's so unfortunate, but I think people get to a point where they just say no more, even for justified reasons. When I first moved to Portland they had a special three year property tax to help with school expenses. When the three years ended and the County didn't budget properly they asked for another 3 years from property taxes. The School Superintendent stepped forward and said they were not going to ask the taxpayers for more money. The County was suppose to fix the problem within that three year timeframe and they didn't, it's not the taxpayers fault or problem. Kudos to her! ;)The story you shared touched me. It's sad that everything today comes down to money. What happened to people reaching out and helping without being compensated in return...sad. :(My rant for today:On the application the company asks if you know anyone within the organization and they want the name of the person.Hmmm ~ if the organization is going to hire within their little circle and use what I call "company nepotism" why even advertise the job. Just ask the employees to refer who they want and stop wasting my time.I have had three applications that have asked this question.?On the fourth such application I backed out and cancelled the process. ~:PRight there with you Missy. This something I regularly rant about and it should be something that is left off an application!! How about those applications that will only give you a pull down menu for "current employment"? No discrimination there. Uuugh!If you want to see what the dumbest people in NY state look like just visit the Dept of?Labor?offices.Well, I don't know whether our DOL "career advisers" here, are just dumb or lazy. My vote is for lazy. They don't care who's life they ruin, they are just "doing their job". Everyone is just bumbling around trying to cover their backsides. That's my problem, I'm too honest for that, hence why I'm in the predicament I'm in.They are actually nice/decent people the DOL staff. But there's just no meat to their programs/advice/etc etc etc.It's a total BS govt agency.I find it interesting when experts say take any job if you become unemployed until you find something better. The truth is your new lousy job with the lousy wages becomes your new market value for most.I actually have someone who will tell potential employers that I am presently working for his company and I still am having a very tough time getting a job.In today's job market you have to have looks, perfect job history, and perfect everything to get back on your feet with another solid job. Pretty stupid if you ask me.Officially going to be a horrid summer. No job and running out of cash. 30 years ago we had Ronald Reagan, Johnny Cash, Bob Hope, and Steve Jobs. Now we have Obama, No Cash, No Hope, and No Jobs.Yes. tis' true I fear.?Although I don't necessarily put all the blame on Obama.?You just don't create jobs by snapping your fingers.?Technology has cut out jobs. Now you have less people doing more for less.?I do question his "laser focus" on jobs, though.Yeah, I remember going back to when this "crash" officially happened. Bernanke and Summers kept saying, "the next two quarters will be different, etc." That was what......5 years ago?!?!?!?!?!?!?Fortune 500 companies are famous now for changing the pay plan for their Sales team every year. Making it harder and harder each year to make money. One reason is the obvious...less for them to pay out. There's other reasons but it's to late.This is why I stay away from Fortune 1000 companies. The f*ckking BS.These days a company that seems to always have openings is a bad omen usually signaling nobody sticks around at the company/company is bad place to work for...Oh and I hate job centres and/or govt. agencies that have the attitude that any job is better than no job. They don't take into consideration/don't care that you may not be a good fit for the job they want you to apply to...Glad to know that the U.S. isn't the only place that's screwed up in job assistance/help centers.I'm sorry I missed it. I used to listen to this station a lot with earbuds on the job. NPR has some great programming.I bet that was an interesting segment. All these companies are going part time so that they don't have to offer any benefits. So frustrating for so many that need?healthinsurance?and some paid time off.Thank for the link. Interesting story. I see a lot of adjunctfaculty?positions posted.And then to hear the adjuncts say that students are dropping out because their part time minimum wage jobs demand flexibility in their availability...this is just sad.It sure is sad and it doesn't look as though it's going to change anytime soon. Ever job I look at has these same characteristics.Is self employment better?Not better. Just different.In the states, the taxes one has to pay for self-employment are pretty bad, and many industries are heavily regulated, plus the permits you have to get can keep some folks from never opening their doors.Then one has to consider payroll taxes et al for their employees, making sure your employees do their jobs, or aren't skimming the registers, or siphoning your?inventory, or....plus you're the last to get paid, if at all.Self-employment (MLM doesn't count as "true" SE in my world) has its pro's and con's. What a person chooses (if such a choice even exists) depends on the type of stress you are willing to subject yourself to. Best of luck.I just had no idea it was this bad. I mean, I'd HEARD it was bad, but we've been lucky my hubby has had steady employment, and I just kind of assumed I'd be able to find a little job when I got the kids in preschool.The news is always talking about how unemployment is going down and the economy is improving and now i think they are just lying....He never used one and yet was home everyday at 6:00 pm, never worked weekends and very seldom worked overtime. And it all got done.Can you say that?They don't have jobs like that much anymore. Now you get worked to death and employers don't care. If you don't work overtime you get made to feel guilty and you had better be available at home with your cell phone on and don't forget to bring your laptop in case the boss needs something.I'm amazed at the number of jobs I see posted these days that require you to be on call 24/7. And of course they are exempt so forgot about overtime when you are called out at midnight. And they don't pay that well either!And most of these jobs have NO medical benefits! Imagine what that will do to the economy in the coming years. Paid vacation time? I am seeing less and less of that as well. Everyone NEEDS some time off. It's as essential as getting a good night's sleep.And don't forget, many of us have adult?children?that we are supporting since they can't find employment and caring for elderly parents, since people are living a lot longer than they used to.I wonder what the stats are on people having nervous breakdowns and/or other assorted problems with this new economy?My rant for today? I feel numb, like my spark is slowing leaving me.Today was?compliance?day at the career center. I am on emergency U.C. and it is required you go and sit in a room with other unemployed folks to watch a Power Point presentation on the services the state offers to help become employed again.The session was suppose to be approx. 2 hours. The man was done speaking in 15 minutes.My?general?observations about this session? There were approximately 50 of us in this small auditorium. Only 2 people were obviously under the age of 40. Most were over the age of 50, white, and female, although there was a more than a few middle aged men there. Everyone seem to have the same expression on their faces; they have given up.The only excitement to this session was an unemployed woman informing a few of the others that a local dollar store was?hiring. No kidding! I also watched a woman sit there with another, desperately trying to fill out her required log of jobs she needed to present to keep her benefits coming. They had a cell phone on them and were randomly picking potential places of employment to tally on their sheet. I should have felt angry that my log was legitimate; that the jobs I had on my list were real attempts, but at this point, I just don't care.Needless to say, I did my duty for the day. Hope everyone else is doing well today.And now for some more fun news:?Food?stamp budget is supposedly going to be cut. Sure, cut something people depend on rather than the grossly inflated salaries and benefits of the congress and senate... the people who certainly don't work for us......Very interesting to read this board. I used think I am the only one ia hard time to find a job, I thought something must be wrong with me (though I had my doubts).Now it's clear that we have a major economic crisis, perhaps an equivalent of a modern Great Depression. The only reason nobody speaks of GD is that media hushes it out and doesn't want to bring it up but these posts left by hundreds of people from all over the world speak for themselves.I don't think the "Great Recession" of 2007 to 2009 ended and at this point, it certainly could be defined as a depression due to the length.As one of my old?Economics?professors once said, "One of the major problems with Capitalism is that most of you (looking at the class) will never be one".This is N O T Capitalism. What we have is more like corporate socialism.?Large un-accountable entities,freeloading executives,dwindling production and deteriorating?customer service, nobody cares about anybody, brutal disregard for fellow human beings, low wages, high poverty levels, pay-to-play, "it is who you know not what you can do" attitude everywhere,huge entities doing all the?business?and small entrepreneurs being forced out of game: all these are NOT ATTRIBUTES OF CAPITALISM - THESE ARE ATTRIBUTES OF SOCIALISM ! Only peculiar thing about it it is a Corporate Socialism (as opposed to Proletarian Socialism of Marxist - Leninists).We need CAPITALISM to restore good life !Well, we might have to define some terms but Karl Marx said pretty much the same thing over 150 years ago.No he didn't.It wasn't Marx nor Marx inspired Bolsheviks who created best environment and living conditions for people, it was Western Capitalist system that did it.It was Western Capitalist model that allowed a little mom-and-pop shop owner in Arizona to grow and become the founder of what you know today as a Wallmart.Anyone heard of?Bank of America? Guess what? The guy was loaning money on a handshake and his "bank' consisted of a dining table and a chair he installed in front of his house , to serve by-walkers. And from this humble origin Bank of America grew !Study history,read,ask older generation, marvel at what a Real Capitalism DID for millions.We need to return to the Capitalism that worked! That made America proud and its' Citizens the most prosperous in the world while the rest of the world watched with envy.?ThAt WAS Capitalism ! And we need it back !Bank of America...that was the one that had underpaid, unqualified interns signing mortgage and loan papers for applicants who had no hope or prayer of ever paying the money back, right? The ones who were directly responsible at least in part for the mess we're in now?Yeah, I can't wait to chop that card into itty bitty smithereens. But I have to pay it off, first.There were several banks that were involved: Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, Washington Mutual, Countrywide, etc.The question is how did this happen? The answer according to Les Leopold in "The Looting of America" is that Clinton reversed The Glass-Steagall Act which was passed in 1933 specifically to prevent this.Why did Clinton do this? $$$$$$$$$$$While I wasn't even in high school at the time the bill in question (Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act) was passed, when looking at the facts it seems a bit revisionist to say that "Clinton did this." He signed the bill into?law, but it was sponsored by Republicans and passed in a Republican majority Congress. If this was Democrat legislation, then maybe you could pin it on the President.What BofA and others did before 2008 crisis is an interesting but an entirely different subject from one I was pointing out.The fact is many of the modern giants started from very humble beginnings a hundred years (+/- 50 years) or so ago.It was a CAPITALIST system which allowed industrious and entrepreneurial individuals to accomplish this.?When somebody berates CAPITALISM I always tell them to check their facts.?It is SOCIALISM that stifles our economy today (though it's a new kind of socialism, a corporate one).?To fix this economy we need the CAPITALISM back.I know people who argue the great "recession" was caused primarily by congress legislating that banks give home loans to basically everybody, regardless of ability to pay. (no, I do not remember the name of the bill)Supposedly, the attempt was to provide lower income folks the ability to buy a house like it was actually a "right" to own property (apparently regardless of economic status or ability to actually meed one's?financial?obligations).The goal has never been to grant a "right" to everyone to own a property.?If you have a mortgage you don't have a "right" to own the collateral, the lender does (until after you paid off your debt).?Just look into foreclosure statistics and see how many have since disowned what they had no means to pay for.The goal was to accommodate the lenders and, at the time, even Alan Greenspan believed that there was no hyperinflation going on and that everything was just fine (market demand was regulating the price, so to say).?So, while bubble was getting closer to burst, everyone, including the advocates of unlimited lending, were assuming that this?housing?market was a Perpetuum Mobile incarnate of sound money making.?If you get into that mindset then you understand that they saw no risk in unlimited lending to anyone: What is the risk,they questioned,if the values perpetually go up? Anyone defaults on mortgage? So much better, that same house can now be auctioned off for even greater sum than original loan amount!Why such high ranking, decision making people had such a blurred vision is another question, but the goal to grant everyone a right to own a home wasn't one of their blunders (it was just a slogan to sell the mechanism).At one point in time (which we may be getting back to), banks actually looked at risk factors. If the numbers just didn't add up, the loan was simply not given.If I can find the ambition some time today, I will see if I can find out more about it, but my friends lay the entire issue at the governments doorstep, who (supposedly) forced lenders to make high risk loans. (I know, I should have the chapter and verse as well as citations lined up before I "speak")Before the collapse, I heard there were 50 year mortgages. I did not believe it until I looked it up and found it to be true. If a 40-50 y/o took a 50 year mortgage, there would be a reasonable chance they would never live long enough to pay it off.Re: 50 y/mortgage: but he would accumulate the collateral and would probably have a mortgage?insurance?or life insurance to pay off the balance or it would fall on those inheriting the property (who would most likely wish to assume the responsibility, given that there would be large equity built-up by the time of passing of the owner).?As long as there is no mass default there is no global problem with 50 year mortgages per se.As to first part: you are partially right,?government?did play a role in allowing this to happen, but it wasn't a proverbial 'Big Government' ordering sheepish lenders to obey the order and grant poor the right to own homes. There was a lot less idealistic/romantic motivation than a folk tale makes it to be.The decision was pragmatic and one universally supported by lenders. They DID look at risks and saw NONE: they were assuming that markets could never be wrong, that homes DID objectively rise and would keep rising in value, thus unlimited lending was seen as a good, solid, 100% winning bet, not even a gamble. Later it turned out to be a wrong assumption, but at the time it was what caused much of what happened.A lot of those whom you are used to seeing as "Big Capital" and "Ruling" had/were neither when they just started up.?Capitalism (REAL ONE) is a system that gives ANYONE opportunity to excel and reach the top.?It is NOT a system that rewards EVERYONE EQUALLY regardless of input, but neither does it obstruct anyone willing and able from reaching the top.?Wallmart and BofA are one of hundreds of examples you could find.A lot of people base their judgement on what is observed as a result and have no historical perspective. This is a simplistic view. Facts usually are needed to make sense of and better understand things.For example (Hypothetical, Year 20XX, Somewhere in US):A (Simplistic view): My neighbor drives Rolls Royce. He is a Lawyer. Lawyers and money rule!?But I won't be a Lawyer because tuition is 10 million dollars and?law?schools will only admit?children/relatives of lawyers or students who could contribute additional 50 million dollars to a school fund.B (Facts): My neighbor grew up in a poor family. His father died of stroke when he was 13. His father worked on and off, earned too little, aged fast and drunk a lot. But Law schools were still affordable and possible to get admitted to and his mother insisted he go study and become someone. He graduated and started as a?clerk?for a Judge. After 40 years he built a big practice. Now he is?driving?a Rolls Royce and has a team of 150 lawyers who work for him. At 62 he jogs, runs,doesn't smoke, feels perfect and has no plans to retire.QUESTION: Is it Lawyers per se or ability to contribute 50 millions to a school fund that Rule or is it the System that allowed able and talented person to learn the ropes, compete and earn his spot under the sun??If latter then why not restore it?Jeff, in Socialism not?government?but Private Citizenry own everything (so it is said, at least). Now, look at most of the huge, publicly held corporations, who owns them? The same Private Citizenry (via 401K's or larger portfolios).Just as in Socialism, no one individual really owns the majority of or even large portion of shares: the Executives who sit on Board and Manage the company do not really have any stakes in it, they do not really care where will company be tomorrow , as long as they get their perks and bonuses.?It was exactly same in Socialism: the managers of the plant or fabric , formally "appointed" and "serving" Citizenry didn't have any personal stakes in it and consequently couldn't care less about what would happen to the place tomorrow. People do mediocre job, plant is going bankrupt? Who cares, as long as managers can do some extra bucks! And people will get their salaries (until plant/fabric totally collapses) even if they waste their time gossiping, smoking and drinking a coffee.This is a REAL SOCIALIST mechanics of?business?operation , this is how things operate in SOCIALIST system.I don't think it will be around for too long, eventually these behemoths will fail (just the same way Socialist States did) and luckily these Big Corps are not a State, so when all is done and finished and these dinosaurs are gone we will have once again a real competition and small to mid-size businesses with owners having personal stakes, competing against each other and thriving , as they should in a TRUE CAPITALIST systems.Only some of Big Businesses may survive past this corporate socialism age (among them, I hope, will be AMICA, one of the best?insurance?companies out there).And, just in another parallel to company operated under Socialism:There too Managers were most of all concerned about how the company looked on paper (must show bigger number numbers of production every x number of months and years, no matter if the increase achieved at the expense of producing a total rubbish or long term failure of a plant, as long as it looked great on a paper today you were a hero).In a socialistic system, the citizenry as an entity own the means of production. If corporations have multiple owners, it is still capitalism, even if there are a large number of owners.IMHO, what the USA has is a flawed attempt at free market capitalism, with corporations using market dominance (monopoly, cartel) and cronyism to prevent a true free market from operating.I think that the bigger problem was the rise of unregulatedfinancial?institutions, as?investment?companies and sham companies like CountryWide started acting like banks but without the safeguards that?bank?regulations provide. The economy tanked when a relatively small number of foreclosures caused these types of companies to go under.We don't need a central bureaucratic office apparatchiks micromanaging businesses and telling?CEO's what to produce, how much to sell it for, at what profit margin etc.But, this being said, this should not mean that any business owner, including one who can do an enormous irreparable harm to millions, should have means and ability to do so with total impunity.If we could apply this simple principle to regulating the business then we could have all the benefits of Laissez-faire without the burden of Great Recessions, Depressions or what not.I don't know if I posted this upthread or not.People who have jobs can't leave them because there are no jobs out there.People who own homes can't leave them because they're hopelessly under water or there are no buyers.It's total stagnation of the economy, with the only ones making out well up at the top of the chain. The market seems to like the state of the economy and is completely disconnected from the consumer economy.When will it all change? It's been this way now for going on six years.From what I've seen of my company, there are a lot more people interested in making it look like they're doing work, than people who actually work. Most of the people who get promotions, are the ones who let someone else do the work, while they're in the office being chummy with the boss. Actually working isn't appreciated anymore, and sometimes, it's actually looked at like "who is this stick in the mud who is always working and never comes back to the office to socialize?"One guy recently got signed up for the management program...he was running a department, before. When he was in the department, he would spend a solid 6 hours of his 8 hour shift in the back "working." I can tell you, there is NO reason to be back there for 6 hours ONE day of the week, let alone 5. Promoted. Meanwhile the guys out front doing the heavy lifting? Might get a quarter an hour raise in 6 months...maybe.That's another sign of what I define as CORPORATE SOCIALISM (I coined this new term, you see).Although it is a Corporation, yet it has the essential characteristics of Socialist run organization.One of the telling signs is that real purpose of organization is to pretend that something productive being one, while everyone slacks and really does nothing. And better you "socialize" with management better your chances to get promoted: it's all about how you make them feel, not how you perform your tasks and duties (since company has no real viable-business?purpose your zeal in doing a hard good work is actually discouraged).This is what I call a Corporate Socialism.It will be a while before more and more people catch up with it, but I am glad that the increasing number of people notice things going on that defy logic and common sense.What terrifies me is the people who are totally oblivious to their surroundings and what is actually going on.When I was working, I was of the opinion that I was being paid to produce a product, not sit around socializing with people I didn't have much, if anything in common with. If work was slow, that would be the time to socialize...... though I would have rather be doing something else.A company I worked at was in the habit of giving a slap in the face (called "raises") of 5 Cents to 25 cents an hour. One time, I commented to my boss about not being kept up with cost of living. During the conversation, my boss made the comment that some people had to be "taken care of". I held my tongue, but was thinking very loudly "that obviously means you don't value what I do here".......That particular boss had the propensity of doing things other than work (as far as I could tell) while in his office. When I had a question and rounded the corner to his office, I got into the habit of standing at the door for a moment so he could close whatever he was doing on his?computer?while thinking he was pulling one over on me. If it related to actual work, no need to shut down whatever it was......The unemployment numbers are ridiculously inaccurate, however. 20 million people have NO job. How many million more are making minimum wage? How many million after that are making under $12/hr? How can society be happy with "well, they have a job," when there is NO WAY that that person can survive on what they make? Rent,?food, gas...god forbid you have dependents. There is NO WAY to afford this. So how many people are on some sort ofgovernment?program that subsidies their needs? And this is OK?It's like there's about 10% of "haves," and they're sucking every last drop out of the "have a littles," who are desperately trying to tread water, because they're scared as heck of being the "have nots."Carlin did a bit on this, you should you tube it. A man far before his time.The more I think the more I realize that this is not the worst times we have seen, those times are still ahead.These are interesting times, for sure. But as ancient?Chinesecurse goes "May you live in interesting times"Some Doomsday economist authors say that will probably happen in 20 years. First, SS will be broke by then. Second, the inheritance money will have run out. Third, the Yuan will have replaced the dollar.However, the?government?has hedged their bets. Obama reversed Posse Comitatus in 2011, which allows him to use the Army in case of civil unrest.?Homeland Security?has ordered 1.9 BILLION bullets and not a soul around these parts thinks that has anything to do with the official story of saving money. LOL!The Bureau of Labor Statistics does actually quantify unemployment in every way you can think of. The major issue is that the media likes to report on the narrowest measure of unemployment. If they ever give depth to the unemployment statistics by mentioning age, sex, industry, duration, etc., they usually do so in a disjointed?fashion?that makes it difficult for the average news consumer to piece together a full picture. I don't see it as anyone, the news or the?government, as lying to the people - most of the country apparently just doesn't demand the right kind of reporting.No, shut up we shall not. The best treasured thing we have (which no Lord-Almighty Job giver has control over) is our Free Speech. And that I am not giving up for anything.?I may be forced to sit and do nothing, but shut up I will not.According to 2012 Census Bureau estimates the population of DC Metropolitan area is 5,860,342I look for jobs within 25 miles of DC , which has population greater than 1 million.Despite many job adds, job market here is a joke. Every?HRyou ask will tell you they get 100-200 applications for each advertised position.?Some jobs have ridiculous requirements vs tasks performed, "Maters required , PhD preferred" to do some High School level works.?Hundreds of others require active top clearance and I am thinking with so many people doing "top secret" how do they keep anything secret?I try to apply to those jobs that best match my individual skills and abilities, with no TS or PHD nonsense.Just average jobs that I know for certain I can be good at and which doesn't require jumping through the hoops, having active TSC or multiple PhD's.Still, no matter what I apply for, it is the same idiotic software that asks the same 50 questions to create a profile and then you upload a resume, click submit and to black hole it goes. Occasionally I get "You are a great candidate but we decided to go with still better candidate", but most often it is just nothing.I don't know if I agree that there are more incompetent people than there used to be. I would agree that companies are less interested in?customer service?than they used to be.Why do think that the theory of functional stupidity is not viable?Interesting. Once in awhile you say something intelligent.My last gig was Outside Sales for a Fortune 5-- company. I saw first hand what these types of comps were trying to do. Made me sick.1. Tell the cust what they should buy even if it's bad for them. As long as it's good for the comp. Only when the cust has had enough and is about to leave and use a competitor will the comp give in.Every policy is geared toward the company's bottom line which in turn favors the investor.The stories I could tell but the women and?children?here would have nightmares.Never again for me.But the measures used are not reflecting a full picture.?It may be good for investors, but not in the long run.In the short run? Sure. Expenses down, profits up - that's all you need to increase the value of the stock. But eventually running what you do will catch up with you.#1. Ever lower wages and fired workers mean less buying buying power, less money to?chase?on the market. Provide best service in the world and manufacture the product ever , who are you going to sell it to if there are no buyers for it? One wealthy man is but one man and he can buy for himself, may be for his family and friends, but that will be miniscule portion of his assets - the rest he will put away (either save or invest somewhere). So, without mass consumer able to buy your goods, who are you going to sell it too?#2. Consistently inferior?customer service?and products will eventually (though not immediately) turn your customers away.?It may take 20 attempts to sell your?customer?what is bad for them, and they may keep buying from you (old habits die hard, thinking and looking for a competitor is hard, people are lazy and will accept what you throw at them etc), but eventually you will have them fed up and they will find a way to get even with you. May be stop using your product/service and just save precious money instead of spending (this is actually what happened in USSR before its' collapse: because products and services were very inferior, people just saved all their money instead of buying anything. Before hyperinflation , which forced people to get rid of their savings, there was accumulation of enormous amount of money in savings accounts because there were no good quality products or services people were willing to give up for.If Fortune 500's decided to go that route how would it benefit investors in the long run?Your posting above is very well written. Great on paper.When the tide turns and the majority of buyers change their buying habits then Companies will adjust also. They will have to.See, Greed is ok. Nothing wrong with alittle greed. Your Grandfather's era. But now, now we are in a period where it's beyond greed. Take everything mentality! Let's call it Predatory Capitalism. It's what Fortune 500 companies are practicing now. Massive Layoffs, high prices, tell thecustomer?what's good for them, raise that stock price.A?CEO?isn't rewarded for the long haul. They're rewarded for getting the stock price up. Since they're often in their 50's or 60's who cares once their done. Heck, since it's enough to retire why should they care if they were in their 40's.Sign the?contract, give it a go for a few years, and if it doesn't work out, well, no harm, no foul, for the CEO. The massive paychecks, except for the guys who just want to be CEO, almost guarantee this behavior.And, if they break a few eggs, employees, well the employees aren't signing his check.Which is why they emphasize cutting costs, which raises the profit immediately, rather than developing new products, which may take years to make money for the company. The Worst Idea Ever was for companies to give the bulk of the CEO?compensation?as stock options. Unfortunately, tax laws encourage this ultimately harmful method.And might I add: stop being so picky about the length of time people have been out of work. There are many legitimate reasons why we may be unemployed! For me, I had to quit my job and take full-time care of a terminally ill parent for three years. I didn't choose to do it- I HAD to.For others, it may be a child or spouse that needs help. Or they may just be laid off at no fault of their own. Have a heart!Unfortunately, capitalist businesses could care less about having a heart. Given the state of the economy, they have the pick of the litter when it comes to?hiring. There are tons of qualified, experienced,?college-educated people out there all scratching and clawing for a the same job in many instances - they can take whoever they want, and then simply toss the rest of the resumes...It sucks, but its a reality. I know, I have a bachelors and a masters, and I cant find a decent?entry level?"administrative" job anywhere. I've probably sent out 100+ resumes and cover letters in the last 18 months, only to get no replies, never mind an interview.In fact all jobless people should go online and write about their experiences.Why help shysters to pretend that we have a good job market where there are less people unemployed today than there were 5 years ago?After N amount of time and XYZ number of resumes send via indeed (with steps 1,2 and 3 already passed through) I decided to contact the workforce agency, hoping they would assist me and do something I haven't done yet.?When i asked what they do they told me: 1,2 and 3.Don't go there again and make that mistake twice.They just don't have it. I'm glad they have their govt job and benefits because most of them couldn't make it in the private sector.Time to take the cat for a walk.I read that some?airlinesnow deliberately hire older people in an effort to save money on retirement and pensions. . =)That is so despicable. But hey, if it gets us a job=)The most frustrating thing for me is when a job listing says "Entry Level" or "junior" and then asks for 3-5 years experience.That isn't an?entry?level job. That's a job for someone who entered 3-5 years ago. #FacePalm3-5 years is Entry Level today.I like the * must be capable of working independently. Makes me think that the training budget went the way of the company picnic.Today, somebody, who knows somebody got a job.I got another rock.Be optimistic (or rather realistic).Think of it this way: today another action was taken that was against the long term purposes of existingbusiness: some moron was hired to do a job I could do better, just because they know him/her personally but didn't know me.The "inertia" goes only so far, there is only so much fuel to run with executives and?hiring?managers doing everything against what business exists to do.?At some point (and you may be surprised, the point is not remote in future) these behemoths will fail.Once these behemoths fail and markets crash things WILL change for better (because it won't work as it does now and it will no longer benefit anyone, while it still benefits many).Our?energy, abilities and more will be required in time.Too bad for those who near the retirement age: by the time things change for better you will be out of workforce: my only advise to you - cash on your 401K before these behemoths are done. It will be worse than what happened with the?housing?market.In 2012 there were no alternatives.?Mitt Romney was exact same candidate as Obama (in terms of what he would have pursued?economics?wise). The only benefit of Romney being in office would bethat people would realize these are not exactly "liberal" policies (whereas for now they think so).Back in 2008 there were alternatives. I strongly advocated candidacy of Hillary Clinton but no one cared about her credentials or how well country did when her husband was President. Everyone got over-excited with a young candidate with zero?executive?experience.?I hoped McCain would win at last, but he lost too...Now we are stuck without President (unlike those in known circles who dislike this current President for his color , I criticism him for lack of leadership and for pandering to the very same people who brought economy to this impasse).Anyway, good thing is: such policies will not continue indefinitely. May be few more years, but inevitable it will bring to crash of market and from there the necessity to adopt policies that get out out of this mess.Hilary Clinton would not have been much different. Ron Paul was the way to go, but people were too busy passing him off as that "crazy old guy". The same people that were throwing rocks at him for his take/solution on the economy, are the same people who are now wishing politicians would do the same thing he advised. Why do we need the?federalreserves again??? And if you think your "vote" still counts, I got some bits and some blinders over here for you.Yes I realize I contradicted myself, but at this point I don't care. Votes don't get you heard, having your face be seen and your voice heard, and hitting them where it hurts the most.. their pockets, does.I've read that a company will pretend it is seeking more employers to satisfy the board members of the company - to give the appearance that the company is growing.Another rant, sorry I have a lot on my mind right now. Working at this retail job has made me really hate some things about this country. I'm a single woman trying desperately to work and support herself. I've never considered?government?aid because I feel I would be taking it from people who really need it. However, my opinion on this is starting to change.?I see people come into this store on the regular?drivingcadillacs and carrying coach purses. They have a gazillion kids (the money makers), and are using EBT cards instead of the wads of one hundred dollar bills in their purses and pockets. These people are blatantly ripping off the government and the taxpayers. I'm having a quarter of my minimum wage paycheck taken to feed this people who don't need this assistance.?I'm not against government aid. As many people there are who scam the government there are tons who actually NEED the aid to eat.?However I guess it's just the area I'm in. I see these scammers everyday and I get so angry. Here I am struggling to live and do things right and these people just take it easy on the taxpayers.?Note: this isn't a political post. This is just me ranting about things I've seen at my place of work?Yes you are not getting it for free, you are paying into the system. As humiliating as it was, I used ebt for 6 months, the first time I got laid off a few years back. I after it ended I didn't reapply, I had gotten hired elsewhere the same week it ended. I have not used it since.Hey, if you absolutely need it there's no shame in using it. EBT should be used to help people in difficult situations get back on their feet. Once they are out of that situation, they need to stop using it because other people need it as well.I'm not against EBT. I'm against the EBT scammers.No trust me I get you, I was telling you if you need go ahead and apply. You're right people abuse the system all the time! You've got people who treat that crap like it's a heritage. Just have a baby, all it takes is one,?food, rent, utilities,etc all paid for. Even schooling (if they even choose to go, some only go to get finanical aid back, then disappear for the rest of the semester.)Sad part is Obama doesn't want to cut entitlements to those people?driving?a Cadillac.He wants people like me with a job to pay more taxes as he wants to increase hand outs to these lazy bums that milk the system.I know that life is unfair. I think all of us know that. I just look around and see things that don't make much sense to me. I have a friend who has a degree, but is looking for any type of job she can find. She just got rejected from Walmart because she is overqualified. Then I have a friend who just graduated from?college, with a horrible GPA (was on academic probation a majority of her undergrad years), but she got multiple job offers immediately. Some things seem awfully backwards. I looked for a job for well over two years, and I got all kinds of rejections. I didn't have enough experience for jobs in my field, but for jobs outside my field, they didn't want to train me just to have me leave. The new jobs here are not professional jobs...our job creation seems to be mostly retail and restaurant, and, contrary to popular belief, if you have a degree it's not automatically easy to just land a job by applying.I was reading an article the other day and one of the commentators, I think he used to politician of some sort, commented that it was the failing of thecollege?student when they couldn't find a job. That students with real degrees weren't having problems.That politician should shove it. I am in DC area. I know people with Masters' out of GW (costs around $40K-$45K per year) who can't find a job, any job and feel lucky when taking low paying?entry level?jobs far outside of their field of study. How is it their fault? They went to college, they got good grades, they graduated and can't find a job now. 200-300 individuals apply for each job opening,HR's?hiring?only insiders who are in 'network', what is student to do??If someone threw a brick at this politician and then blamed him for his injury too, I wonder what would he say then.New Jersey, from what I hear, is a H1B pit. And from what I see in these parts, looking at?data?type searches in the resume section, my guess is that it is extremely not pretty from a H1B perspective. My guess is roughly 70% of the resumes.BI/data is a phenomenal fit for me given my background but I think I'm going to have to give up on the idea.Anyways, good luck, and trust no one.Read more about?labor?force participation rate and less about unemployment rate.?Get this: unemployment rate WILL GROW when there is more labor participation and job growth because greater number of people will be actively looking for jobs (thus adding to official 'unemployment' rate).?The reason we get reports that unemployment rate decreased since recovery and hasn't changed recently is that those who didn't loose jobs recently simply GAVE UP looking for jobs: thus contributing to decrease of unemployment rate.?This is misleading picture and does not reflect the actual reality of great number of active working age population being thrown out of the labor participation.Here is a link to Fed Reserve publication in San Francisco. It sheds some light on the issue (though I consider it overly optimistic about anticipated renouncing, in light of?datashowing steep decline in labor participation among 25-54 y/o).Years ago there were jobs and a genuine need to fill those positions.Now, there are no jobs (literally net loss of jobs this year and steep decline in?labor?participation since 2007).?So, what you have now are miserable?HR?people trying to enact their BDSM fantasies during the interviews and thus getting some relief from being subjected to the same by their superiors.Exactly!! I haven't been able to get a job because it seems the employers are soooo worried on why I had not been working for a whole year. WELL GUESS WHAT EMPLOYERS, WE AS HUMAN BEINGS SUFFER LOSSES IN OUR FAMILIES, HAVE?FINANCIALPROBLEMS, AND ETC ETC ETC WITH our personal lives!!!!Oh, and it just frustrates me so bad that even though you take your much detailed RESUME, you still have to fill out their 10 PAGE APPLICATION EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE NOT EVEN GOING TO HIRE YOU!!! Aren't they basically the same thing???!!Uuugghh!!! That felt great to vent :-)Oh Lord don't even get me started on that! Don't forget the personality tests. Funny part is, the people who pass it don't seem to have much of a personality at all.Rick Perry is kind of like what we have here, only on the other side of the aisle. He pretty much has a job for life, he's as career as career politicians get, and you'll simply never get him out of there (I hear he's retiring though) and the likely replacement is probably worse.Here in California, we have Jerry Brown, a rerun, and his likely replacement, Gavin Newsom is definitely not an upgrade.A while back (guessing 6 months or more), someone started a thread along the lines of the emotional toll this economy has taken on many of us. I suspect it would be fair to say the toll has gotten worse since we simply are not seeing the "improvement" the press is telling us is here.Being part of a now forgotten and very much ignored group of long term unemployed, well, the frustration comes and goes.What say we all march on DC and replace the flaming idiots called congress? We could collect their pay and benefits and live in their houses. Let those clueless jerks live on the street for about 3 years (or even the rest of their lives).Replacing Congress sounds like a good idea, but rather than march on DC all is needed is for every voter to understand that those ballot boxes are not some idle novelty that some stupid people throw paper in and then count, but those are actual places where you go to choose your destiny. And that KNOWING matters. That you must have critical thinking abilities to be able to select the candidate most fit to represent you and do your bidding once elected.We have beautiful Constitution and every right and opportunity to change things for better. All we need to do is understand our responsibility and do what it takes to bring positive changes: vote for the right candidates and not for those who only make things worse for us.Though this country was founded by revolution (and arguably terrorism), those means would not actually be very feasible for this country in this age. How many people now (in this country) would actually be willing to give their lives and fortunes (literally) as the founding fathers did?Congress has had "issues" for what, well over 100 years, known for more self-service than for service to those who elected them....I will admit to having only have a?general, rather than in-depth understanding of history, so my contributions to political/historical issues will be rather limitedUnlike founders we don't need to make a revolution: they did it for us and left us a mechanism to better our lives via civil participation in elections (that's why they left us a Constitution).But, without looking at current statistics, I would say (off the top of my head) that between 1/3 to 2/3 of population doesn't participate in elections.Of those who participate only handful are well aware , focused, know the issues, candidates and what they vote for.?Many vote based on slogans and with little to no understanding of what or who they vote for.I had a conversation with one idealistic youth last year who was telling me how intelligent and great such and such elected official is. I said ok, I have an open mind, would you proceed to tell me why that official is smart as you say it is?Answer was 'because that official is smart' and nothing else. That person had no idea why they thought the candidate they voted for is smart. They probably heard it on radio or TV and were merely repeating it.That's where the problem is.I would would basically agree with your above statements, especially about people being basically unaware of what the candidates stand for. After busy days, not many folks have the time or?energy?to research the candidates. Voting records vs tv sound bite don't jive much of the time.Even a great candidate with the best intentions can make little difference these days. Elections need money and all the politicians, whether they be one political affiliation or another, have to be in line with the big corporations that funded them. That's why I just shake my head when people believe their president has all this power, good or bad.I do miss the days when a president would at least come on television and act like a leader; lay out a plan that he wants to push through Congress...another big freaking joke!I fear it's going to take a collapse like what we saw in the 1930's before anything truly changes. Only then will big corporation cry foul because people will no longer have the money to even buy the basics.I would would basically agree with your above statements, especially about people being basically unaware of what the candidates stand for. After busy days, not many folks have the time or?energy?to research the candidates. Voting records vs tv sound bite don't jive much of the time.That's because they don't really stand for anything other than claiming a political party. It's no wonder people have become so apathetic. We don't have candidates, we have interchangeable cyborgs who will stand for whatever they need to get elected. Then once elected, they are free to focus on what really matters: campaigning for reelection.I would would basically agree with your above statements, especially about people being basically unaware of what the candidates stand for. After busy days, not many folks have the time or?energy?to research the candidates. Voting records vs tv sound bite don't jive much of the time.The culprit is not long day of work, the culprit is a culture.From what I understand farming was an awfully tough job to do and required more working hours than what is considered a 'full time' now. Yet, there was a lot more participation in years past (when US was still very agricultural country) than there is now.Notice that I do not suggest that doing occupation ( farming or not) is a cause, I merely bring an example of how greater numbers of time dedicated to hard work didn't prevent our predecessors' from more meaningfully participating in political life.Something has changed, along cultural lines, we have a large mass of population who does not feel anything about their civil duty as citizenry and takes it for granted that politics is a dirty work that is reserved for crooked and your vote means nothing.Another culprit is Edward Bernays and if you read his book 'Propaganda' you will understand better.en.wiki/Edward_BernaysThis is as far as what caused a mass apathy and total ignorance of civic duties on part of many.I will always say that everything needed to make America Great and restore pride in it and its' people is in our Constitution and the true Capitalist system that put this country on its' feet and made it one without a rival in the whole world.?If and when Americans realize it this country will be Great again.I find it totally and thoroughly unconchable that politicians run on one platform and do the exact opposite once in office. Just about every single one of them should be in jail for worse offenses than some of the folks already behind bars.I do think at least some (perhaps most) of that frustration of "what's the point, they are just going to do whatever they want" prevails now. "We" (the American public) perhaps used to actually have more of a say in the process than now.You have the power of vote. The more you educate yourself on issues more valuable your choice will be (for your own sake).The American people do have the same say today as they did earlier, it is just many are mostly withdrawn and of those who still participate how many you know that have critical judgement of candidates they vote for (rather than repeating soundbites and voting along party lines?Actually, not really, votes don't mean as much as perhaps they once did. I did vote in the last MD election: every single item I voted for was voted down in this extreme democratic state. My "say" was successfully drowned out.For example, instead of raising taxes, people like us should be put back to work. The effect would be that the state would collect more taxes without having to raise tolls and gas taxes. Where's that stance in MD (or?federal) politicsActually, not really, votes don't mean as much as perhaps they once did. I did vote in the last MD election: every single item I voted for was voted down in this extreme democratic state. My "say" was successfully drowned out.For example, instead of raising taxes, people like us should be put back to work. The effect would be that the state would collect more taxes without having to raise tolls and gas taxes. Where's that stance in MD (or?federal) politics?What makes you think your votes don't mean as much as before??The number of people who vote for the same thing as you do may be much greater than the number of those who vote for what you vote for.?What you should do (instead of wrongly assuming that your vote mean less than before), is to think critically and really try to understand one or another issue you vote for.?You could also talk to those around you who you disagree with. Ask them, why do they vote the way they do?Very often people will create a clique where only like-minded people gather and they will endlessly reinforce the common opinion with no one ever challenging or asking them to show?data?and back up their opinion on reasonable grounds.I personally am politically independent (not even Independent Party independent, but independent in an absolute sense of the word) and I try to assess issues and candidates strictly based on what data I can gather and what reasonable conclusion the latter lead me to.It was just a gut feeling about votes Perhaps not counting as much.Trust me, I do not have the time,?energy?nor patience to attempt to discuss politics with the extreme liberals. Which is why I typically leave politics alone. The more I look at how things seem to actually work, the more frustrated I get and the further I need to get away from it.There are better uses for my time than a heated political "discussion" where nobody's opinions are swayed.As a?general?rule, the healthy political debate should occur among reasonable people, among those who sincerely try to get better understanding, educate and get educated, and learn to defend their views on reasonable grounds (as opposed to hype, trends, sound bites and what not).None of it negates the fact that unless we have better understanding of issues and consequences of choices we make,and unless we use our voting power wisely we will be no better off in improving our living conditions than a herd of domestic cattle; and for this, my fellow indeed posters, we have no one else to blame than ourselves.?This is one thing we are definitely collectively guilty of.John , you drop the relevant subject as a hot potato but you also complain that things don't work the way you wish they did and everything is a complete mess. That's like having a cake and eating it too. But you can't have it both ways.?If you drop politics as a hot potato (which is completely up to you and your right to do so) then you lose grounds to complain of the outcome.With my political views in such obvious conflict with the majority of this state, I do, indeed, feel powerless to change anything. So, yes, I say things are not the way I want, but my energies really should be elsewhere. The majority of folks I know have similar views as I do. Those who don't have no desire to see things change. There are other things I should be worrying about changing before other people's minds on politics. I am not nor do I want to be an activist. It would appear you would do much better at that than I. So, I am quite content to leave the battles up to those who wish to fight.John, there is a State just across Potomac river (VA) which is on the other end of political spectrum. If political climate here is too stiffing to you have you thought of moving there??That State, btw, has lower UE rate than MD (around 5% vs 7.1% in MD as of May 2013).I don't want to say that I like what MD has come to lately, but I still think the level of tolerance here for various opinions is much higher (in case if you don't share the views of dominating party) than if you went to VA and dared to speak your mind in slightest disagreement of what Politburo over there endorsed.Lastly, I don't suggest 300 million people or even majority of voting population to become a political activist. Since when voting and using a grey matter in your skull to comprehend issues and know who you vote for is equated with "activism"??I simply say that everything is in the hands of the voters who should take their civic responsibility seriously and thoughtfully. Or else don't complain of the outcomes.I mean absolutely no offense, but what I mean by "activism" in this case is that your primary topic by far has been politics. That is a form of activism. Generally, there are other concerns and topics people like to talk about here other than that sole thing.Yes, I have noticed the various comments people have made along the lines of "there are more appropriate boards to discuss things like politics". I am also more than ready to move on from having politics being the sole point of discussion here as well.My brother used to live in VA and was generally not impressed though he is less impressed with where he now lives. Any potential moves on my part are complicated by "owning" a house number one. Two, unless I moved in with family, there would likely not be a place I could live other than the street. From what I've heard,?apartment?complexes now like to docredit?checks (perhaps they always have, I don't remember). Without an income, I would not be able to rent or buy a house.Political speech, under First Amendment , is one of the specifically protected speeches (along with Satire) and , under our Constitution and form of?government?, is one which is rather encouraged (despite the popular belief to the contrary).You have equal right not to participate in any debate and discussion and not to voice your opinion, just as I have mine to do the very opposite.The best way to proceed (in instances where someone posts something you don't want to engage yourself in discussing) is to simply ignore such posts and not reply to the poster at all.If you do so then no one can insist you act contrary to your will and force you to still be a part of a discussion.Hope this helps.I will try to keep in mind that a "simple" change topic request is now considered "squelching free speech". (attempt at humor!)Seriously though, I never said you "could not" talk about whatever you want to. And I am still responding for some reason. I guess it's a way for me to keep somewhat entertained for a few minutes......Why are you altering the meaning of what I wrote and allude to what is not there?If you want to change the topic why would you even ask me about it?As long as you are frustrated, looking for a job and want to impersonally "rant" to that effect you are free to post whatever you will (that's under indeed guidelines).You may also choose to respond, make a joke, keep yourself entertained for few or any number of minutes , that's all up to you (and indeed admins).But if reply to me and state something that sounds unreasonable to me then I will reply to you accordingly.Another viable party needs to emerge. The GOP seems hellbent on suicide.I think today that the Democrats are the much saner party. We tend, because we want to be fair, to lump the Democrats as extreme, just in a different way, and sure, they have their guys, but the party, and most of it's platform is pretty mainstream these days, at least in my opinion.Now, at the state level, especially in California, I would, almost, agree. The problem is that guys like Newsom, Brown, etc. aren't radical Liberal by classic standards. They are just made out to be Satan because of where our politics have shifted to.None of that should be taken as an endorsement of the California Democratic party. I think they need to go, in the worst way, but absent changes by the GOP it's not going to happen.The greatest ironies of all, of course, is the fact that USA is founded on Liberal principles and the founders were Liberals in the strongest meaning of the word.?If you are not Liberal you are in effect against the founding principles , against what the USA is based on.I wonder what exactly meant when people use word "Liberal" today (which, I perceive, is some sort of a curse word shunned by many as a plague, a contamination).Is it possible that what is described as Liberal today is not actually Liberal but is a straw man designed to discredit what true Liberal principles stand for?How is it even conscionable that in a country built on Liberal principles and Constitution, many are ashamed and apprehensive of being associated with anything remotely perceived as Liberal?Some things are just surreal....Both parties are equally insane and anyone who wants to run under one of them has no interest in making a difference, but wants the power. The whole system is f'ed up beyond repair.Up until the end of the Clinton?admin?at least one party (Democrats) wanted something for the common good, for the country besides the power for themselves.But after Clinton it seems as if Dems said "Down with it, we will just be like Republicans from now on, we will sell our souls to the highest bidder and Devil may care about the country and its' future!"Sad reality.What I see as pure blood "Republicans" today is indeed extreme. As I mentioned earlier, if Reagan was in office today they would brand him RINO and more forcefully demand his impeachment than they did Clinton in 90's.On "Democratic" end, when people speak of "extremes" I wonder who or what exactly do they refer to and what is the platform/ideas/goals of such a Democratic party member who is an "extremist"??For all I can see, Democrats are running to the right in an endless race to outdo Republicans, just so they can get their turn polishing their pants on chairs (look at current job market, trillions of dollars wasted in bail out of huge companies and so on).this will be my last comment on the subject.One of the many definitions of conservative:1. favouring the preservation of established customs, values, etc,The colonies believed in tradition. They also believed in God as Christians and left Britain because Britain was taking their freedoms away.They believed in god which is why "In God We Trust" is on our currency.Separation of?church?and state was meant to be the State should not have rule over religious beliefs not the other way around.I made a comment in this forum to discuss jobs and the lack of work in our country, not to have a political debate.I will not respond again...everI would strongly suggest (by all means , just a suggestion) we keep racial controversy out of this "jobseeker rant" page unless it has direct relation to employment related themes.My 2 cents: it is tragic that public seems incapable of considering criminal cases with color-blind eyes.What happened in Florida? In Florida one man shot another at close range without any witness telling the jury exactly what happened. Shooting has resulted in death of the party being shot at. In Florida the?Law?says that you can use deadly force if you perceive threat of bodily harm (not threat to life , but mere threat of bodily harm, a lot lesser threshold). The party that used weapon (defendant) had shown photographs that show bodily harm inflicted (bloody scratches/scars on back of head, broken nose) and defendant claimed that he feared of more bodily harm.?There was no direct witness at the scene to credibly challenge the accuracy of defendant's testimony.?Prosecution failed to produce credible evidence that could convince jury beyond reasonable doubt that defendant murdered the victim out of ill will, malice or other illegal cause, without threat of harm.Jury, based on FL law (which allows the use of deadly force if threat of bodily injury exists) and based on lack of credible evidence on part of Prosecution to challenge the testimony of defendant, found latter not guilty of crime as charged.If you think the law is bad you may share your point of view and articulate it , but you can't blame justice/court?for carrying it out.?If court acted against the law then such arguments would have basis, but as far as any reasonable person can see the court merely executed the letter of law (acting otherwise would be to break the law).The debate (whether deadly force @ threat of bod.harm is justified) should be carried out without mixing race into it. IMHO.It is appalling how public gets divided across racial lines when any criminal case gets publicized (where victim and alleged perpetrator are of different race).Look at facts of case, evidence and judge based on it and the existing?law. The color of parties involved is irrelevant !So, gonna gripe. I went to the doctor's office last month. I have coverage (386/mo) and I'm getting the bills which are totaling $700. I'm looking at the bill and it makes no sense, everything is rounded, and I think, all in their favor.They've just gone Office Space on me, legally.Oh, and I now have a preexisting condition. I don't think it's anything that's gonna kill me anytime soon, or probably ever, but it's something that could surely be used to deny coverage at some point.Medical care in the United States is complete 8S. When I show up for something like this what can I do? Can I shop the charges? What are the charges when I'm getting the order to go take the test? I'm thinking about demanding their charge list so I can make informed decisions on costs next time I need anything from them. Nope, don't want that blood test, or that blood test, that one is OK.Absolutely ridiculous and 1/2 this country is too stupid to grasp this.Maybe I should go on Medi-Cal.You absolutely can shop the charges and if more people did, medical costs would come down. My niece is a medical biller and she gets 10 calls a day from people who say, "I need to see a doctor, how much for an office visit, if I am paying cash?". Many doctors will give you a price break for cash now.You can shop for tests. I needed a stress test done and I shopped around and had prices quoted from $375 to $1,000.You can also shop for prescription drugs. In California,Costco?is tough to beat. Here, I can run across the border for one of my meds. Here it is $45.00 for a 90 day supply. An hour from me, across the border, its $6.00. Its the same medication but in a different box.Some now check as they slide your?insurance?card and tell you right there if your out of pocket exceed a co-pay. You then can say "Ok, I accept" or reject the service.It's another house of cards that is brewing for trouble. I remember when the med insurance used to cost $25 per paycheck , with $10 co-pay and zero deductibles.Now you pay few hundred dollars a month (if you are lucky) and then there are deductibles, higher co-pays and 20% out of pocket charges and what not.I hear a lot of people with insurances put off doctor visits until they just reach the point where they must be taken to an emergency. And whatever Obamacare is, I think it will be delayed until he leaves the office and then they will repeal it. Not even sure what the benefits of that?law?is to an average citizen.I have a catastrophic policy with a $3,000 deductible. I am fine if I get hit by a bus but anything else, is on my dime. I can't run to the doctor for every sniffle.Obviously, I have to follow all the?dietary?guidelines andexercise?but anything like rock climbing, bungee jumping or hang gliding is out.That's what I used to do. I stayed with?Kaiser?because I've been with them so long but I can't do $4,500/year.One of the interesting things about Obamacare is that a lot of people are predicting there will be a ton of retirements from the work force. People won't need to work at a crappy job just to get medical coverage. It might be a boon to some segments of the unemployed.I'm really curious how it will all play out. There are so many "experts" out there that are certain it's going to go a certain way. All I know is that the current situation blows!?I have a catastrophic policy with a $3,000 deductible. I am fine if I get hit by a bus but anything else, is on my dime. I can't run to the doctor for every sniffle.Obviously, I have to follow all the?dietary?guidelines andexercise?but anything like rock climbing, bungee jumping or hang gliding is out.And if anything happens when you are paying your own bills, you will find out just how greedy doctors are. I was in the same boat, and sprained my ankle and some radiologist charged $600 for spending a minute or 2 checking my x-rays. And I only had those x-rays taken because the GP decided that she wanted her own x-rays rather than using the ones that the urgent care center had taken!!!That's what I used to do. I stayed with?Kaiser?because I've been with them so long but I can't do $4,500/year.One of the interesting things about Obamacare is that a lot of people are predicting there will be a ton of retirements from the work force. People won't need to work at a crappy job just to get medical coverage. It might be a boon to some segments of the unemployed.I'm really curious how it will all play out. There are so many "experts" out there that are certain it's going to go a certain way. All I know is that the current situation blows!I have always said that having medical?insurance?should have never been based on whether you have a job or not. I don't pretend to know the solution, but we all are paying for the uninsured anyway by our high premiums etc. Of course pharmaceutical companies and big insurance are reporting profits in the stratosphere.But yes...there are people that work to just have the insurance. As I side note to that, some of us lost a huge portion of our savings to keep our family insured after losing a job.I hear a lot of people with insurances put off doctor visits until they just reach the point where they must be taken to an emergency. And whatever Obamacare is, I think it will be delayed until he leaves the office and then they will repeal it. Not even sure what the benefits of that?law?is to an average citizen.I don't see why primary care visits aren't 100% free, for every person, all the time. Provided the feedback cycle of "cut reimbursement for procedure, doctors order more procedures to increase revenue, etc." is broken first, increased access to preventative/wellness visits with your PCP should decrease?healthcare?spending overall. What costs more:?counseling?a person to eat and?exercise?better or a triple bypass surgery? A blood test or rounds of chemotherapy? (Yes, I realize my view is somewhat utopian and would require a change in how we compensate allied?health?professionals and/or zero corruption in ordering unnecessary tests and procedures.)Benefit of the Affordable Care Act for the "average citizen:" Access to healthcare despite pre-existing condition(s). Benefit of the Affordable Care Act for the "younger average citizen:" Ability to stay on parent(s)' plan until an age typically able to pay their own way. Benefit of the Affordable Care Act for the "low-income citizen:" Access to healthcare, period. (Will stop relying on the ER for care.) I wish the law were bipartisan (even though that doesn't exist these days), but it's not without [intended] benefits for "average people."Ever since doctors started getting hurt by what has happened to healthcare, they are indeed padding the visits with unnecessary tests and prescribing meds for every darn thing (I rarely fill the prescription given me unless truly necessary). Also, my doctor makes me come in every three months for a check-up in order to refill the one stupid anti-depressant I take and have been taking for nearly 10 years with no ill effects. The man doesn't even listen to my heart or lungs most of the time. I get weighed and blood pressure is taken by his nurse. I have no problems with either. I know my doctor is just trying to keep his head above water.I don't think most doctors are struggling. My husband had to pay $1800 for a plastic mouthpiece for his TMJ problem.Health?or?dental?insurance?doesn't cover a cent. That doesn't include the other related costs. Why so much for a piece of plastic? I told them that I can buy a few computers for that price and I got a dirty look LOL. I sure wasn't expecting $1800. Oh, and they expect payments of $308 a month. How many people do you know with an extra $308 laying around? Most of us are just getting by.With medical prices that high, so many people are going to go without that could really need medical treatment.I was reading an article yesterday about this economist Peter Schiff and a book he wrote about the economy and recession called "The Real Crash - America's coming bankruptcy."I don't know about Peter Schiff and I usually take any alarmist book with a spoonful of salt, but there are basically two things that could be troublesome:1. Reserve and Excess reserve.Reserve: Banks only required to keep a small fraction of their assets in Fed reserve (10% or so) and this allows them to sort of buy an?insurance?and make greater amount of loans. This was instituted to prevent the sort of panic and defaulting that took place?during great market crash early XX century.For decades Banks kept only enough in reserve as required and loaned as much as they were allowed, because that's how banks made money.After TARP and buyouts, banks got really scared and since Feds pay interest on reserve (while lending is too risky) they decided to just pile up all the reserve. Currently we have, I think, an excess in an amount of $1.8 Trillion dollars.It is reasonably assumed that at some point banks may decide to loan this money again (instead of rusting it and collecting s small interest from Fed) and if this amount of money hits the market as an avalanche it could cause an inflation of unseen before proportions. That will make your life savings lose value overnight and it's hard to imagine how things could unfold under this scenario, but by all means it would not be a pleasant experience for anyone involved.2. Another big problem is that businesses currently operate under the long held formula of "scarce money" economy. Instead of investing in growth, jobs , innovation and so on the?business?only look at cutting expenses and reducing costs as the ONLY means of increasing profit. Think of it: if people have less money to spend it makes no sense to increase production [tbc]to innovate and do other things you would normally do. Rather, you just cut all costs and squeeze as much out of what revenue you get as you can.This model works, but only up to a point. The cycle is such that self-contraction is inevitable. By laying off greater number of people and by reducing wages, those companies also cut the base of tree they sit on. So, they will constantly have less revenue to expect (less money in pockets of consumer) and this will perennial force them into vicious cycle of cutting costs , laying off and reducing wages.?Anyone employed today should seriously be prepared to be downsizes at some point soon.This can go on only until certain point (In theory, if taken to extreme: until there is only ONE corporation with ONE?CEOsurviving , with no one having a penny left to buy whatever he can produce).?So, at some point this model will collapse if we don't do something to fix things sooner than later.But the big question remains whether this entire process is under control (that there are wise people who understand everything and will walk us up to the edge but will take measures at critical moment to fix things and turn the tide around) or whether this is a free fall that no one will be able to get a grip of. If latter is the case then we may have to go through very big trouble before things get back to normal. If former is the case then there is still a hope.Its not the 1% that is the problem. Under Capitalism they are not only a given, they are an absolute necessity. All men are not created equal; that's 4th grade Civics. Some run faster than others and should be rewarded accordingly. Even Adam Smith in his Wealth of Nations referred to this "invisible hand".?I don't see even that as a problem. If top 1% had 100 quadrillion dollars I couldn't care less. That's not the problem as I see it. Perhaps the only problem would be along sustainability lines (does earth have enough to create such wealth and not vaporize during transformation ?)The problem I see is with the dynamics.?Is the money and wealth generated by constant growth and increase in overall economy, with everyone having a shot to making a good living if they try enough (as the true Capitalist system would allow)? Or is the wealth "generated" by mere stiffing, suffocating and just ripping off all you could based on principles of jungle?law?ruled society?The latter is very problematic, and not the less for top 1% as it is problematic for the rest.Proverbially, the extreme outcome of this model ultimately should be a single?CEO?on top of a single super-monopoly but with no one left with a single penny to purchase anything from this CEO , thus starving him to death as well.The problem is that, even when the economy was growing steadily, the growth wasn't being captured equally. US GDP grew at roughly 3% for the 80s, 90s, up to 2007. During that time, the share of income earned by the top 10% grew from 30-35% to 45-50% (and didn't decrease more than a couple percentage points between 2007 and 2011). Even in a properly growing economy, our economic policies tend to concentrate income at the top; you don't even need to take into?account?if people are acting as if they are in a Hobbesian state of nature, or a Lockean one.Why do you think it's my?business?how much wealth Johneses next door are generating??As long as I am able to work, pay my bills and amnot obstructed from growth when I try , why should I care about Johneses family? I may even be grateful that they generate the opportunity for me to work and pay my bills while I work on my grad degree or on start-up of my own.The problem is not income inequality per se and whoever says it is either making a straw man argument or doesn't understand capitalism and rights to own property.The problem in our current economy is that there is no net wealth generated anymore, it is assumed that there is X amount of revenue in the economy (and it may only get worse and decree as vicious cycle of lay offs and wage decreases go on) , and what companies do is engage in cut and slash race to make profits grow on paper, but this model is not sustainable.You have rats in encloses container, since they can't find anything to eat anymore they just eat each other, with bigger rats (of course) eating smaller rats. But if you leave it as is in the end you will have one big fat rat, but the moment it wins race will be begging of its' death from starvation.This is not how Capitalist system works, read more classics and pay less attention to paid pundits you see on TV.Proverbially, the extreme outcome of this model ultimately should be a singleCEO?on top of a single super-monopoly but with no one left with a single penny to purchase anything from this CEO , thus starving him to death as well.Agreed with everything said. And I agree with the last paragraph and have been thinking about the long term effects of out-of-control capitalistim - if money keeps getting pushed to the top, after awhile there will be no customers. I imagine it's not much concern for companies because:1) they can go global and always sell to countries that are doing well like Brazil, Columbia, Canada, Australia?2) they are so far removed from reality that they don't realize many, many people are slowly giving up buying ANYTHING but?food?and gas.Its not a straw man argument. Each ism has advantages and disadvantage. This is Comparative?Economics?201. Income inequality is one of the disadvantages of Capitalism.Bluetea, the textbook for Economics 201 can claim that economic inequality per see is bad (absence abnormal 'dog eat dog world' economy we currently have). For all you know the author of the textbook for economics 201 could be a secret Marxist and wished for expropriation and equal?distribution?of wealth among all.?Or it may mean that one of the inconveniences of Capitalist system is that income is not distributed equally and some earn more than others.?Latter is true but necessary element of growth. Forced equalization was tried and failed (in former Socialist republics). What happens is that when everyone is forced to earn the same then no one gives a poop about doing anything. It also encourages corruption (people learn to break love, steal wealth and bribe those in?law enforcement?to get away with it).?I don't know what the advocates of equal wealth distribution are thinking, but I know it doesn't work.?Capitalism, with all it's inconveniences and inequalities of income, is a viable alternative to Socialist utopia.?BUT, I am talking about Classic Capitalism, where there is a consistent growth of wealth generated, where?general?citizenry is active , entrepreneurial and contributes it's share in wealth generation, where there is a dynamic growth and opportunity (not equal distribution of wealth but OPPORTUNITY) for upward mobility, provided one merits it, works and tries hard.We don't have wealth generated anymore, it is pillaged form what exists and the bottom of pyramid goes under water first, but eventually the top will sink too.?This is not a viable model, that's my point.?I don't give a duck if A makes 10000 more than B, as long as economy is viable, B can be productive, work,pay bills & move upward, if being more productive than C, DThe problem is that the?CEO?gets paid based on increasing the stock price NOW, not on how well he/she sets up the company for 20-30 years down the road.And some of these CEO's have scarred the reputation of these companies that use to be a stellar organizations! ;)We had normal GDP growth 2000 to 2007, around the same 3% we had in the previous 2 decades, but income inequality grew due to policy decisions. We had economic growth (what you claim is most important), but lack of incentives for "not just piling up all that cash" (policy).It's more than that. The scope of this discussion and format do not allow for comprehensive probing and discussion of all causes and effects, but suffice it to say that?housing?bubble started in 2000 and continued on until it brought us to economic crisis in 2007. That already wasn't a growth, it was a scam. Take that off equation and I am curious what the actual growth during 2000 to 2007 was.If you respond that strongly to a phrase, then you're denying yourself the ability to consider all sides of the argument. You can recognize that income inequality is a symptom of something being wrong with the way the system is functioning and not think that the solution is state-mandated redistribution of wealth, a'la 1917 Russian Empire or 2013 Cyprus. History is a great guide, but relying on it betrays the uniqueness in each new situation. One of the causes of the Great Depression was illiquidity - money wasn't moving enough to keep the economy going. When 2007 to 2009 started looking a lot like the 1929, in America we responded by trying to keep things liquid, and so we had TARP, ARRA, and still have QE. Obviously, something was different this time, or we would be in a more robust recovery.Don't talk about "have heart", that automatically puts you on emotional side (aka stupid) and makes you a candidate to be disregarded, dismissed or just wave the hand off.Instead, tell them to have BRAINS. If you are a candidate you can do job better than the moron they will hire utilizing the ineffective TALEO software or corrupt 'networking' practices, then you have a point of contention.Most importantly, if you look at DOL statistics we are AT HISTORIC LOWS when it comes to?labor?participation rate. Unlike Unemployment Rate, which can be artificially low due to people giving up on actively looking for a job and thus no longer counted as "unemployed", the Labor Participation rate shows the total work age population vs the number currently employed. You could then look up the period from 1948 up to now (Go to?goo.gl/an9R6?).?Check it out and see for yourself that we are down to 1978 levels. We are in extremely bad shape compared to 90's and we had very steep decline in past 5 years. All that hype about recovered economy, apparently, has nothing to do with job creation. Why no one ever mentions it is a mystery I will never fathom (we had A LOT BETTER during Bush years, yet media screamed every day how bad it was).Now, this has nothing to do with having or not having a heart, but everything with having a BRAIN.So,instead of saying have a heart I say: "HAVE A BRAIN".The fact is: companies can not afford to under-employ and underpay large number of people indefinitely. They depend on mass consumer as much as mass consumer depends on them for the income.It is hard to understand the real cause or purpose of this prolonged economic downturn (as far as jobs and wages are concerned). It could be anything from invisible shadow economy that uses proceeds to fuel itself (can't go on indefinitely) all the way to mass stupidity that afflicted allCEO's simultaneously (again, if true, can't last forever).Consumer Economy will hit the ground at some point in future (hard to say when, but it inevitably must).I agree. Thehealthcare?schools are churning out tons of new certified techs. Healthcare has used this fact to depress wages. The wages printed on school brochures are wrong! No way can I justify spending $$ on private schools.Everything healthcare is in a glut right now, no jobs and the few jobs available are going to the lowest bidder.Totally agree. One of my interviews was?healthcarerelated and they received tons of resumes. The salary is at the bottom of my range (well the range I thought my degree would get). I know nurses who cannot find jobs, and I keep hearing how they are not replacing people who leave if they can help it.I sent hundreds of resumes, was very upset with total silence and lack of response.?I felt just as any of you would.When I finally got interviews I thought I was well qualified for positions applied... only to be followed up with "we found a better candidate" emails.?I then spent my scarce money, to post ad and to find out who I was competing against: results were disheartening, with 2 Ivy Sch. graduates and dozens of holders of post grad degrees + many yrs of relevant experience applying for just ONE job similar to what I was applying. I became certain I had greater chances to win multimillion dollar lottery than land a job in this market.?To make things even worse: I am introvert, I do not have extensive "network" and I don't know people working in places where I want to work.YET, I NEVER QUIT !It was no longer a matter of getting a job, it was a matter of doing what I believed I must do REGARDLESS of outcome (or else I would justify anyone suggesting I deserved to be unemployed).Now, to my great surprise, I got an offer of a job!It is sort of surreal, I still don't believe it, so I keep rubbing my eyes and trying to 'wake up', it seems as if I will be greeted next day with a broad smile and festive "Got ya! We were just kidding ya! Now take a hike!"But , assuming I am not totally out of my mind, assuming this is for real and that I really did get a job, this once again stands to prove that YOU SHOULD NEVER GIVE UP !!!!Do not let your spirit go down, , to not stop trying, have faith in yourself and have faith that you will meet people, though total strangers, who will come across your path by chance and extend a welcome hand 2U.I can not emphasize it strongly enough: DO NOT GIVE UP !THANKS to EVERYONE @ forum, including Bluetea who seemed unreasonably harsh at times but who meant well, I am sure.I can't come here as much as before, but will when I can.JUST DO NOT GIVE UP !So, today the stock market took another little nosedive which was blamed on lack of consumer spending. To me, that begs the question of exactly where is the supposed consumer money coming from? The low paying part time jobs?I just wonder where the common knowledge that "middle class America drives the economy" went? I think people, even those making over 90k are out of touch with the cost of living. Also, supposedly inflation is under control, but if you make less than 30k, you feel it much more than higher earners.So, either corporations don't realize that money doesn't go as far for their customers as it did 10 years ago or they are expecting to make money from other sources like other countries or inbusiness?to business transactions and don't care about middle class wage earners.Lot of truth in that. When you put a producer out of work, you take a consumer out of the marketplace. This fact isn't lost on companies. So how does it work? You shift the marketplace.Many companies today have?international?sales that far exceed domestic sales. Today the?Chineseare the biggest purchasers of Lamborghini and Porsche.In California I have some?data?points/anecdotes.First, median family income in this state is $55K/year. Honestly, outside of the central valley (Sacramento, Stockton, Fresno, etc.) that's probably about the bare minimum you could do. It would be hard in the Bay Area.Second, I read a post somewhere by a woman whose family was making $130K/year and she was complaining that she couldn't put her kids throughcollege, have 2 cars and live in downtown San Francisco.Third, we've passed a?law?that provides educational discounts (my word, not the official one) for families whose total income is less than $140K. Yay, in California you get?financial?support at $140K/year.I'm pretty sure we're out of touch and messed up in all kinds of ways.The person I emailed actually threw a hissy fit and "tattled" because I had the audacity to ask her a question that took too much time (maybe 2 minutes) to answer.?This is how temps are treated. I used to temp, and one client complained that I asked "too many questions" on my first day at the assignment. Most temporaries are treated very poorly. They will complain about anything you do.You cannot win, and the likelihood is that most temp jobs will never go perm.Temping is the worst thing these days, that anyone can do. Temping can virtually destroy your career, and make a mess out of your resume.The problem is that when employers see a lot of temp jobs on a resume, it looks bad to them. They will ask you why none of those temp jobs hired you on permanent. They will think you are an incompetent worker because your temp jobs did not go perm. Even if the temp jobs were never meant to go perm anyway.Temping actually looks even WORSE on a resume, than working for nine months at, say, a store like Barnes & Noble. "Sales?Associate?at Barnes & Noble" looks better than "temp for nine months" listing lots of little jobs that never went perm.I would encourage everyone to consider applying for work in retail stores,?grocery?stores, before considering temping. Temping is a trap, and many temp jobs no longer go perm. Sadly, I know of several people who have no temped for years. They always think their job will go perm one day, it never does. All the other people they work with are temporary, too. They are like donkeys following a carrot on a stick. But they can never get the carrot.I'm really hoping that science doesn't end up like tech by the time I get out. It's really crazy what you people have to go through. I'm honestly sorry that it's come to this for you.Everyone but BART train operators, cops, firemen and plumbers will have to go through it albeit the idiot learning curve won't be there. Look at what's happened in?construction. They've been wiped out.?Auto?mechanics which always seemed like a decent gig is apparently awful today, just because.I don't mind taking a salary-dive, although it's going to be a mighty hit to my ego, as long as there's a way back. I need to have a place that genuinely rewards initiative, or, gives me some technical skill that I can?bank?in a couple of years. I can't make $50K/year and survive in these parts unless I'm working on my death bed.This whole idea that we can tell employees to forget themselves, not give them benefits and then expect us to fund our own retirement isn't going to work.Question to everyone: Finding a job is difficult, if I may what is making skilled job seekers not create their own jobs or be self employed and sell their skills in terms of services?Technical skills are not all that is required for being self-employed. Marketing skills are required, which not everyone has, and you need to have money to support yourself until you attract clients, which not everyone has.As far as selling your skills, in the New Economy many professionals and skilled laborers are virtually independent contractors. Few expect that they are entering into a lifetime relationship with an employer when they get hired. Most have the understanding that they are being hired for a specific project and that they have no guarantee of a job after that project is completed.I forgot to mention start up costs for the majority (if not all) small businesses. To buy into franchises costs thousands. Starting a new?business, one has to have enough money to live on for what, a year or more. People who are working at substandard wages and unemployed could scarcely afford to start a business.Each job gets large pool of applicants...Then you have sites such as indeed who get paid on "pay per click" basis. So, lots of jobs you see are just rotating posters from a few very large companies that have allocated X number of dollars to post jobs, collect thousands of resumes for each position listed and may not even have intention to hire.You're perhaps one of the few who have identified the problem of advertisements for non-existent jobs, but there's a term for it that?HR?professionals increasingly put into practice called 'pipelining.' This practice was formerly known to all in the field head hunter recruitment, but a?Googlesearch of the term together with other keywords soon reveals how companies are cutting costs through the queuing of candidates in their developments of 'talent pools.'As a job-seeker myself I find my efforts are frustrated by the diversions of resources toward positions that in fact do not exist. They might exist in the future when the economy turns around or there is greater employer certainty in market conditions.Unfortunately, and this is the tragic part, many people are amiss and going through any number of contortions to meet expectations of what they think is a position offered from a standpoint of market confidence. The prevalence that applicants do in fact make the grade in their applications is a testament of employers' lack of confidence in their respective markets. It is unfortunate that so many applicants are caused to personally re-assess their approaches. Market uncertainties are magnified by the revolutionizing monetary and fiscal policies of late.Leading jobs, of the kind that can make the employer money in this recession, will likely capture the attention of the prospective employer. Support positions however have two sides to the coin as an employer may not be certain enough to support such positions.You are nearly forced to watch the horizon of public policy and institutional response to anticipate what's next.I've witnessed a number of reversals in social welfare organizations right here in western NC since 'sequestration.' Overnight practically, a family care free clinic which had a thriving operation has nearly spun on its heel to suddenly offer pregnancy?counseling?and adoption services instead and trying with some mix of the same staff. That too may change next year.I think the?business?to be in at the moment is signage given the numbers of plastic fabric banners.The approach to social welfare (Bush Jr.) led to the creation of lucrative social welfare management positions. Suddenly non-profit anything meant higher paying niche salaries subsidized by?government?or insulated salaries in the 'gift economy.' What the workforce previously assumed were low paying non-profit management jobs, on the order of teacher's salaries, suddenly boasted upper-middle income positions commanding Masters degrees. In fact, there were so many well paying jobs in social work and non-profits here in NC that I was left scratching my head over my major. The dynamic didn't last long.Sequestration and the new?administration?has altered thelandscape, but perhaps what has altered it more is the privatization of social welfare operations and their public offerings on the exchanges. That alone has the tendency to beat wages down to increase shareholder profit.This is how it is today...knowing the right people to get a job...I must know the wrong people! :(Yes, it is how it is, but it's probably one big reason why quality is gone from almost everything.?Look how the?auto?industry advertises now. They rarely talk about quality, maybe mention how many MPG you could get, but mostly show some kind of vague fantasy of how the car would fit a lifestyle of intrigue.I call myself a slave, because I am a slave, and this is whatcollege?got me. I am chained to a job, and it's not for a home or any trappings, it is just basic survival. I am rather frugal, I have to be, but I cannot just leave a crappy job.Economic slavery is alive and well in America. I am not referring to those who buy outside their means and then struggle to pay the bills. I am talking about keeping a roof over the head,?food?on the table...the basics.All of this is very true! I live a simple, honest life, pay my bills and it's a daily struggle. I can't even find a part time job. And now I need a biopsy...what next?I'm not a negative or bitter person but I wish a shining star would shine over me and bring me a little luck! :/I feel for you...I've seen this. We look at the person with the nice car and the nice home and the nice job and think they have it...but they don't, they just have things.?What we have been through, we have fine tuned lenses on about life.When I was a teenager, I got my first job in what use to be called Personnel. Course, you were a person back then. Then, years later, they changed the sign on the door toHuman Resources?and you became a "widget".Now many companies changed the name again to, are you ready, "Talent Acquisition". Every time I read this, it makes me want to bring my accordion to the interview and play "Polka, Polka, Polka".I've heard the term, "Human Capital". One company boasted they could help other firms manage their "human capital".?Sounds very much like slavery. I am a slave myself in my job, very experienced, but I have a manager who didn't finish high school, is just a friend of the owner, who screws things up constantly. Gravy job for her, but she hasn't a clue how things are done.And to have to work for someone who is stupid and didn't finish high school is the ultimate insult. I get "yelled at" for doing things that are a normal part of my job. She doesn't know how to gauge what I am doing.I feel like a slave at work. Unemployment is also degrading.?So many of us feel there is no American Dream anymore. Just trying to hold onto that flimsy raft and float on the rough waves every day...Just wait till ObamaCare kicks in and most places stop?hiringand if they do it will be only 20 hours per week.ObamaCare kill many people's chances of ever finding another full-time job.I have a job, but every day I am reminded in some way?that there's no job security.?I don't get the ones who get a job and think they?are home free. They must be the ones going out and?buying homes and new cars.?I don't feel that safe.You're smarter than me. It took me two downsizes and one termination before I figured that out. No job is forever anymore.When I moved for a job years ago, I had the option to rent or buy this house. I rent. I didn't feel safe...?I've been let go numerous times, big old revolving door?in my field.?I also learned it's not about how well I do my job. In?most places, how you schmooze the bosses and their?favorites is most important. I hate that. I don't?schmooze, and I have no brown on my nose.Thanks, David. I am sorry you went through that, but I am so glad that you had your outburst. Maybe more of us need to start doing that.You're welcome. I wish more people would call these companies out on their BS. I've done it on few more interviews since that one, especially when I get a strong whiff of BS wafting by my nose. I haven't done it on everyone, cause I really need a decent paying job, and only have done it on those interviews that I know is nothing more than anexercise?in futility. If you do decide to call'em out, ensure that it's not a job you really want.Replacing Congress sounds like a good idea, but rather than march on DC all is needed is for every voter to understand that those ballot boxes are not some idle novelty that some stupid people throw paper in and then count, but those are actual places where you go to choose your destiny. And that KNOWING matters. That you must have critical thinking abilities to be able to select the candidate most fit to represent you and do your bidding once elected.We have beautiful Constitution and every right and opportunity to change things for better. All we need to do is understand our responsibility and do what it takes to bring positive changes: vote for the right candidates and not for those who only make things worse for us".Congresspeople are reelected at almost a 90% rate, I think it's mid 80 plus. We aren't changing things, that way, any time soon.To paraphrase Einstein's often over used and least applied quote: Insanity: voting for the same person over and over again and expecting positive changes in Washington.What need is a grassroots effort that'll shove term limits down the throats of Congress and the Senate and we need to make'em choke on it. It'll take a lot to get these overpaid morons to pass an amendment limiting their strangle hold, but it can be done.We have term limits in California. It hasn't changed a thing, except, maybe, it's made our legislators even worse because they lack the experience to write good laws. In fact, it's worse than before in another way. We have several career politicians, of both parties, who once they were termed out simply switched jobs. Bill Lockyer, Jerry Brown and tom McClintock come to mind.The change will only happen when voters become smarter and looking at what goes on in internet debates for the most part, the meter is moving the wrong way.The lessor of two evils is still evil.And therein lies the problem. We never vote for someone anymore. We are voting AGAINST someone.Voting doesn't work anymore anyway, it's all a big theatrical display every election.The lessor of two evils is still evil.This is what has discouraged many folks from voting. Many of us would much rather not vote for evil at all but left with no choice.Seeing too many politicians say one thing to be voted into office, then do the exact opposite of what they promised while campaigning.That is soooo true. I've lost jobs and promotions to twits that are better "knob polishers" than employees. They have no clue to what they're doing and have the temerity to ask for my help or the help of others. All because they kiss the boss' buttocks. It sickens me to see people get passed over for promotions or not a get a job because they don't stroke the egos of their superiors. Unfortunately, I do not know of any way to prevent this from occurring. Maybe shaming or ostracizing the offending twit would send a message, but that could backfire and cause some of us to be labeled as "difficult," "not a team player," "has a poor attitude," etc. etc.The worst part of it all is...the real workers are expected to do their job and make sure everything is done, and the unsaid rule is, cover for the dead wood.If things don't get done, we get blamed, not the dead panies now, are just a form of WELFARE. Those who can get their friends, families, pool boys...jobs, give them jobs so they can share in the money from the top.Some of these employers seem like they have really low self esteem to just badger, mentally abuse and make fun of the hobbies and interests of very nice people. I'd be like, "Numerous. Including participating in charitable functions that actually are productive, benefit this?community?and do something productive. I guess I'm just not into getting an emotional high by making fun of, picking on, creating problems for or abusing other people to provide a quick boost my self-esteem or my status in this community."I actually had nasty co-workers recently tell me I shouldn't socialize or interact with people. I'm thinking, "People like you aren't going in where in your life or career and have extremely low self esteem problems. In fact, you don't have anything to offer other people(except your mental abuse/nasty personality), which explains why you make up lies and file frivolous?claims?against high achievers, and waste the time of state public officials, including the?labor?department to attract attention to yourselves."I have had to deal with really abusive coworkers too. They think they can stick their noses into my?business. I am polite, I will talk about the weather, who won the game, but I don't discuss my personal business at work, and this seems to BOTHER them.You have the ones who whine about their spouses. You have the ones who are mad their favorite show wasn't good last night. The ones who have "bad hair days" or broke a nail. The privileged ones.Going to work and doing one's job isn't enough now. It's pure HIGH SCHOOL and one is expected to pay homage to the most popular and the favorites of the boss.If I could take all of the hard work and?energy?I have and put it toward my own business, I know I could be successful, but I don't have the $$ to start one up.I agree. Its high school all over again and I hated it the first time.It's not a good place for anyone who intelligent, wants to do a good job, has some pride in their work...So even if you like the work you do, there is always one killer at the place ready to make life miserable.That's why starting one's own?business?is best, but it's very hard to do now.Modern life is too much for most humans. We weren't meant to be super robots on the job. Everything is so complicated now. Check the cell phone, check the?computer, remember all the things they keep giving us to do with the same amount of time on the job.We are watched, manipulated, checked, absorbed, numbered, and controlled.Farming was good enough for our ancestors, and they were in charge of themselves.Excellent observation. My kids are in?college. A number of their friends dropped out of college because they didn't want the debt burden and couldn't see the value of the degree (many kids are getting nowhere with their BA). They now go "woofing", which means they travel across country doing?farm?jobs, just to enjoy the land and reclaim their sanity.You know, I am glad some kids are seeing it. I wish more would.The sad thing is, many do not get it. 2 of my friends teach college, and many of the students do not think they will have a problem finding a job. They even say that those of us who are unemployed are just doing something wrong. They are so conceited and entitled. Not all-some understand.My cousin's daughter is going to be in debt to the tune of 200k when she graduates with her nursing degree. There are not many jobs in that field here. And one of my former coworkers has a daughter who cannot move out because her loans are 1200 a month. That is insane, when she is making 50K a year and won't see a major increase for years. My coworker got a little fussy when I asked her if this was worth it.If anyone can?apprentice?with someone to learn something, it would be better than going to college, but then, one has to work for someone they know or themselves...but I think it would be a better quality of life.My uncles were farmers in the mid west, dairy and pig farms. When we visited them we were put to work and would help on the farms. It was not easy work, but I always had fun doing it. ;)This was a small town/community, everyone knew each other. My family was always the headlines of their local newspaper when visiting because we were from Portland OryGone... LOL =)Aah...the good old days! =bExcellent observation. My kids are in?college. A number of their friends dropped out of college because they didn't want the debt burden and couldn't see the value of the degree (many kids are getting nowhere with their BA). They now go "woofing", which means they travel across country doing?farm?jobs, just to enjoy the land and reclaim their sanity.To be honest, I would love for my kids to go that path. If they can find non-conformist harmony without a reliance on capitalist possessions, I think I'd have put them in a better place than my parents put me.After all, isn't that what this is all about? Giving your?children?a better life? I can't do much about the state of the economy and employment, but if a kid finds happiness in a nomadic lifestyle you described, I'd consider myself a success.Today's rant? I'm NOT?bilingual!! Finding a job is getting even harder and harder with that last requirement stating; "must be able to speak both fluent English and Spanish".So basically being born here and being a hard working citizen of this country for the last few decades is not good enough to even find a low paying office job. I shouldn't have to know another language to work again! I am so very tired of this.I am not bilingual either and it should NOT be a requirement for any job unless it is specifically a translator's position.It's no wonder our country is in such deep trouble.My grandparents on my dad's side came over from Italy and they never got the choice but to learn the language of the land they wanted to settle in. No wonder the American Dream could be realized back then.I do think it's odd that the trend is no longer "integrate, but appreciate your heritage" and is instead "resist and make America more like home" for an apparent large portion of immigrants.. My niece is in?healthcare?and she said that Spanish is almost mandatory today. She didn't have it and struggled to get her foot in the door.Somehow, that seems discriminatory.Hispanics are the fastest growing population in the USA. Like it or not, many jobs now require Spanish or you won't get the job...?Heck, you wouldn't even be considered for the job.Just think how Obama doesn't want to control the influx of illegals that cross the boarders. He wants to allow them to stay here, feed them, free?healthcare?and have as many?children?as they want so they can't be deported.Hopefully Dennis Rodman takes Obama with him over to North Korea and leaves him there.Just kidding about Rodman and Obama in N Korea (kind of).But even here in North Texas that doesn't have too many Hispanics...?Many jobs require applicants to be?bilingual?and to speak Spanish.When I lived in Miami, it was mandatory to speak Spanish.Well, if you want to bend over with that, go ahead, I will move until I can't move anymore.?I refuse to have someone tell me I cannot speak English in America. I wonder when Americans will wake up. Americans are too worried about being nice and getting approval.I went to get some assistance for a utility bill yesterday, the supervisor who was Latino, asked me to bring in medical proof of my injury. Yeah, that's what landed me there in the first place. I had to use what little cash I had to pay for my immediate care facility. Forget that I couldn't get the surgery I needed since I have no medicalinsurance.So she asked me why I have not been able to get a job.You were more polite than I would have been. The fact she's Latino, questioning YOU on why you can't get a job in AMERICA would have sent me postal. You should have told her that you can't find a job because people like her have first dibs on OUR jobs!Sorry, I am not happy today. I just got done filling out another obnoxious online application. I cannot believe after 2 years of filling these things out, that one click of a button can't populate these darn things automatically. Add an extra insult to the mix, but it states that they "prefer?bilingual". What are the chances I get the job? Everything else about the job would fit my qualifications to the number.They run?healthcare?now, why they favor their own folks.I feel your pain. I received a call for a receptionist job at a vet office. When I walked in the manager gave me a long hard look and asked me my last name. When I gave it he seemed amazed. "How can you be Medeiros and NOT speak Spanish?"?Wow! REALLY? I could not believe he had the brass tacks to even ask me that but I answered as politely as I could.?"First of all, I am Spanish and Irish. Obviously the Spanish part by-passed me and I got the Irish good looks. Secondly, Medeiros is my MARRIED last name. Third, my grandmother refused to let my mom, aunts and uncles teach us Spanish because she felt as Americans, we should only speak, read and write English and in fact, cussed people out regularly at the stores for speaking other languages. She felt it was an insult and they were ungrateful to their adoptive country, USA."?Needless to say, I didn't get the job.Don't you wish you had that conversation recorded? Talk about outright discriminatory remarks! My mother came from Canada and only could speak very broken English when she came here to the states with my dad. She too never thought this country needed to change for her. She learned the English language by staying up and watching late night TV. True story! She's proud she did that and she worked hard her whole life, here in America.I'm sorry you didn't get the job.Most of our generation can tell this story of our parents and grandparents that immigrated to this country expecting nothing and giving back nothing less than their unshakable work ethic in return for citizenship. There was no "entitlement" with them!I am sick of stupid people getting divided and hating each other here. Hate and kick the S*IT out of each other and ruin America, then I want to see what will you do next.?Idiots!?What happened to good old common sense?Everywhere you go you hear these stupid mob conversations where everyone is looking for someone to scapegoat. Aren't you tired of your own stupidity?I don't give a screwball if the man has White, Black, Latino, Chineese or Eskimo roots, as long as he is loyal to our Constitution, which I hold above all for to it we owe everything we have, then he is my brother and there is no reason for me to be resentful or harbor ill feelings against him.This being said, we have some social challenges that need intelligent approach. Rather than hating Latinos, I suggest we start a reasonable dialogue around the fact that this country has immigrants from all over the world. What would happen if all of us wanted everyone else speak our own language? And what would happen if requirement to speak 140 languages was part of getting a job? It would be practically impossible for anyone to get a job, wouldn't it? And I strongly believe that one owes it to his adoptive country to at least learn its' language and civics, no exceptions there.This being said, I see no reason why we should make this debate about "Evil Latinos" or evil others, blah blah blah (as it clearly is implied in many of these conversations).A man with Latino roots who is loyal to this country and to its' Constitution in my eyes is always above someone who isn't, even if latter be my brethren.No doubt....Hispanics are the fastest growing population in the USA. Many jobs want Spanish speaking employees. In places like Miami, FL its almost required.It's required here in the NE. It shouldn't be. Too many of us now can't qualify for even the low paying jobs because of this very discriminatory requirement. And yes, I think it is outright discrimination!!We used to pay a premium wage for people that could speak more than one language.The Hispanic market is huge and many industries have to cater to it. Hence, the "Spanish speaking preferred" requirement.And sadly, if we were like any other country in the world, we would require immigrants to learn English and be done with it. I have nothing against Spanish speaking people, but it hurts that in this phase of my life that I have one more hurdle in getting hired for simple jobs. I doubt I stand alone in not having the?bilingual?skill. Seems that all my other skills mean nothing because of the way it is now :(The Hispanic market is huge and many industries have to cater to it. Hence, the "Spanish speaking preferred" requirement.I think it's deplorable that we do this to our own citizens!!! Huge population or not, they shouldn't get first dibs on those jobs. My grandparents had to stand in line and learn English before they were accepted. The political correctness of this country has hurt us more than helped!! Sorry.No matter, I would still prefer to be a Black African American in most bigoted American locale than the Black African in some African states where I could be shot dead or sold into indentured?labor?faster than in Jim Crow states of late XIX century.Keeping everything in perspective, I recuse myself from further participation in this hard topic, with the hope that we all become better and more conscious making America the what it was founded to be.In Califonia, the minimum wage will be going up to $10 hourly in 3 years. And Illegal immigrants will now be able to get California?Drivers?license. Just great.I wonder how much this will hurt the state. Inflation of prices.In MD, illegal immigrants can get drivers licenses and get in state tuition at state colleges......California has already hit the iceberg. They don't realize that they are sinking.Huge exodus from California to other states now. They might even beat Michigan for migratory patterns.We have a lot of California licenses plates here and they ain't all here to see The Alamo.With ObamaCare,?hiring?will grind to a trickle.In many aspects, yes, but what's your alleged point? There are people on here who are unemployed, so just giving them the death sentence isn't very helpful.People who are working just to obtain?health?insurance?will now quit and this will open positions for others that need a paycheck. Also there are many who aren't working so they have no health insurance and they will now be covered. Also the hospitals won't be flooded with the uninsured for minor problems like earaches which the state pays for. $400.00 for an ear ache will be more like $50.00.Cleveland Clinic announced they will cut expenses by $330 million and have big job cuts soon.When I see Taleo I just back away from the PC, very slowly.I won't fill them out any more.LOL! Me too but I think that is the whole point. Its very Darwinian.Tough job market everywhere nowadays. I have friends who just managed to find?full time?work 2 years after they got out of?college.My?auto?store interview was good.. There was like 10 other people there for interviews, all at 8AM. Some look presentable and had good backgrounds , others where in jeans and tshirts with chains on their wallets (very unprofessional looking, I could sense that they did not enjoy being there, as if their parents forced them to go.)Now the interviewer was like 30-40 minutes late, which was annoying waiting around the store for him.First question he asks me during the interview "Are youbilingual?" . No I am not. I won't be surprised if that killed my chances off the bat. I am however confident in my interview skills, as I am prompt with my comments and voice?delivery.?But other than that, it was a typical interview. They make it sound like a hard demanding job just for minimum wage. Of course, there is the possibility of moving up in the company, but at maybe topping out at $15 an hour for manager position? Still sucks.I haven't heard back from it, so I am not crossing my fingers on it.It's amazing what employers put job seekers through for a minimum wage job. That's ridiculous to have to wait that long for the interviewer to show up! Can you imagine if you were late for an interview? They'd tell you to go home! :)I feel for you on that one! Even the most minimal paying jobs are now requiring someone to be bilingual. OK, I get it. We have a lot of Spanish speaking people in this country. But whatever happened to expecting an immigrant to learn English and keep it as their main language in the work world? If we suddenly make every job open to only people that are bilingual, we are only going to hurt our country more by making it even more impossible for the majority of citizens here to get a job! Quite frankly, we will also make it easy for companies to hire illegals and pay them under the table if all they seem to want is someone that is bilingual. I personally don't hold out much hope for myself ever working again with this added requirement. :(I feel just awful that this young generation is seeing the worst economy I can ever remember. My 19 year old can't even get hired at McDonalds and desperately wants to work. He had a job, but they just stop giving him hours with no explanation, no matter how many times he calls them up to ask. I suspect his retail job only wants someone that is really outgoing, something my son is not. It's a shame because he is reliable and wants the experience.I work for a?farmwhere 99 percent of the workers are Spanish. I'm in Sales for the farm.Funny thing is that they don't have direct deposit for paychecks. Why, because the majority of the workers don't know how to or can't go to a?bank.I'm in the minority. :) First time for me at a job. But I'm fine with it.Also,Some American words that we write for the workers have to be written differently or they will not grasp their meanings.?I work for a?farmwhere 99 percent of the workers are Spanish. I'm in Sales for the farm.Funny thing is that they don't have direct deposit for paychecks. Why, because the majority of the workers don't know how to or can't go to a?bank.That's pathetic. Sad state of affairs that we as a nation have allowed this to go on. We should have nailed shut the borders a long time ago. Good luck with that one Joe.That's pathetic. Sad state of affairs that we as a nation have allowed this to go on. We should have nailed shut the borders a long time ago. Good luck with that one Joe.I agree with you (and I'm half haspanic) but Obama wants to give these illegal folks 'rights' and eventually grant them citizenship, medical care,?food?stamps, free school lunches, educational benefits....., etc... Basically Obama is rolling out the red carpet for these illegals.Learn Spanish because the Hispanic population is now the fastest growing in the United States of America. If you want a job... learn Spanish.I feel your pain. I too am finding it harder and harder to find a job to even apply to because of this demand for someone who is "bilingual". My mother came here in the 1950's, barely able to speak a stitch of English. You know what? She learned English and she too worked hard at every job she ever did. And you know what else? She still finds pride in the fact that she did this. She's also grateful that she was able to find jobs that didn't require much more than dedication. In today's world, landing a decent job is like winning the lottery with the same type of odds stacked against you.I do not believe the borders need to be shut. Also as pointed out this issue was going on long before Obama....Eagertofly, I find it interesting that you are commenting on something from a whole other country. I have nothing against these wonderful immigrants that worked hard to become a citizen and become a part of our workforce. But what is happening now in our country is not fair to people that have lived here their whole life, paying into a system that is now shutting the doors to them!! Why does anyone in a cubicle need to speak two languages unless they are expected to be able to speak with outside clients? We had some?bilingual?people in our old company that handled this and it was a good thing. But the kind of work I do, I am more "behind the scenes". Almost 90% of the jobs I want to apply for are now saying "bilingual preferred". I think that is discriminatory. Think about it. If you don't speak this second language, you need not to apply! I'm already in my 50s, so you tell me if I am not already having the odds stacked against me? I haven't had an interview in 2 months, even though I continue to apply to jobs left and right, even these ones that say "bilingual preferred". Heck, why don't they also say "young people preferred"?Personally, I think it is admiral when a family holds on to their heritage by speaking their native language in their own home.But, when it comes to one of the basic precepts this country was based on, called "Melting Pot", I do not see many people trying at all to do so. Instead, they expect the natives of This country to learn their language? All I can say to that is NO.Thanks eagertofly for clarifying a little better. I certainly don't want to come off as some intolerant b*tch because of my own struggle to get work. But there IS a problem when we are giving one group of people preferential treatment over another, simply because they speak two languages. It wasn't too long ago that being able to speak two languages was seen as something that commanded a higher salary since this was a real asset for a job that required one to be on the front lines of an?international?company. But when I see minimal wage jobs demanding this same skill, jobs that I know would not require me to wheel and deal with the public, I feel pretty put out. And as many of us have stated, we had parents and grandparents come from other countries that had to learn English to get by. I don't think this was a bad thing. It certainly kept the job market open to native citizens here and it made it open to any immigrant willing to learn English.I also remember the time when immigrants were expected to learn english. Those who didn't, well, too bad for them. Political correctness has it's place, but has arguably gone way too far (hope I didn't offend too many people with that statement!)Personally, I think it is admiral when a family holds on to their heritage by speaking their native language in their own home.But, when it comes to one of the basic precepts this country was based on, called "Melting Pot", I do not see many people trying at all to do so. Instead, they expect the natives of This country to learn their language? All I can say to that is NO.Exactly John. My mom is?French?Canadian and she still loves her native country. And when she chats with her family back in Canada, she speaks french. But she is so adamant that learning English was the least she could do to be a working citizen here. Maybe I just admire my Mom's work ethic and attitude. What can I say?But what if that person is navajo or Apache or one of hundreds of the other languages that one can speak in america and still be native american. Anyway it can be frustrating to apply to a job and not be able to qualify because you do not speak another language. This issue has no easy answers I actually agree with that part,Eagertofly, I get what you are saying about native languages, but from a workforce point of view, English is the language of the majority in this country. It's one thing to embrace all the languages spoken here and another to say that in order to work here, you now need to speak this and that for $8 an hour.I can only look back at an economy in the past that was a lot better and it correlated with a time where we weren't demanding a knowledge of speaking anything but English.I agree with you about the workforce it is annoying when one applies for a job and does not speak spanish or whatever other language is required. That is frustrating but I do not have an easy answer either. The bottom line is people want jobs and that is it right their.Personally, I think it is admiral when a family holds on to their heritage by speaking their native language in their own home.But, when it comes to one of the basic precepts this country was based on, called "Melting Pot", I do not see many people trying at all to do so. Instead, they expect the natives of This country to learn their language? All I can say to that is NO.This is the point I was trying to make myself. It gets old when you have to repeatedly explain that you don't hate immigrants and want to stop them from obtaining?LEGAL?citizenship and learn to speak English. I am disgusted with how big and small corporations have taken advantage of these people they put on an underground payroll or pay them a wage that is substandard. No one seems to see how that has had a huge impact on our entire nation. Part of the reason companies demand?bilingual?skills because they want to encourage cheap?labor?and it is also another roadblock for the average person to submit a resume. God knows what kind of tax incentives they get by?hiring?a non Caucasian to the work force. Why else do they include those EEOC questions on applications, even if you don't legally have to answer them??I come from an agricultural family and I've seen the work ethic and the truth is Americans won't do those jobs at anything approaching the wages paid.However, if there were no Latinos, and suddenly it was $30/hr?to pick fruit, even at a performance rate, you'd suddenly start getting people. Just like how they get guys to risk their life working on a boat in Alaska. It would be harder, because crops don't all come ripe at the same time, there are no benefits, etc., but, it would get done.But there's no reason to pay that kind of money when someone will do it for $10.00/hr and no benefits of any kind.Really? The wages of all Americans have plummeted in the last decade and there are tons of people, Latino or not, that will do a job with great work ethic. It's a mistake to fall into this mantra that "Americans won't do these jobs". Ask anyone that works in an HR department what they see when they advertise a job. Even these minimal paying jobs net thousands of applicants from all types of people, not just Latinos!As for those that have come here legally? I say that is a great thing. I have relatives that came from Italy many years ago and they worked their behinds off in a country that did not want them at the time.Sure, Al Capone must have been very hard working guy. Or he must have been Mexican in disguise.I truly believe that there is a damage being done to everyone (including immigrants) when too many of them come here in too short period of time, without real demand or need for their presence here. It's like coming to someone's house without invitation. Not only do you wear thin patience of hosts , but you risk your own well being since pressure will mount to some day kick you out with no regard to how it may make you feel.?For those, very obvious reasons, I support measures by Sovereign Nation (that US is) to set limits and to control the flow of foreigners who come here to permanently settle.?But my rationale has nothing to do with being silly and blaming modern immigrants as more evil creatures than their predecessors. When will we grow up, folks???t is far from destiny that the living standard of the developed countries will continue to drop until every country arrives at a world average. If we keep sending jobs to each year's new country of cheapest?labor, then yeah, maybe that will happen, but we have other choices. For instance, in the US, we keep saying that we want to be an "information and advanced manufacturing"-based economy, but we don't embrace that ideal. Instead of really ramping up training for this kind of economy, we still push every child towards a 4-year degree and tell them to be happy being a waiter or receptionist until they can find a job in their field. If we really wanted to do what we say we do, you'd probably see a third of all high school students either attending a vocational/technical school or those types of programs in an integrated school, and the remaining manufacturers would be following up with signing bonuses and specialized training programs. You'd also see a massive increase in funding to the NSF, NIH, NASA, DOE, DARPA, etc. We can't have a 21st century economy resting on our 20th century inventions.I also want to take the time to go outside the box a little here: All we need to do is survive until we reach a post-scarcity society. With enough?energy?and raw materials, standard of living won't be a problem. We could have Agrarian society levels of income inequality, but if?food, shelter, and goods are so cheap to produce as to be effectively free, who cares?Riot in MA, I specifically mentioned low skill/laborintensive jobs, but come to think of it almost all those jobs you are thinking of can be outsourced as well. Half the US IT industry operates out of India. The only ones that will be a challenge to export are the DARPA and those involving highly confidential technology, but even those jobs can be outsourced with some good thought given to it.I am not a Nostradamus and least of all can be certain of any destiny out there, but I base my projections on empirically observable trends. I too know how great it would be to embrace some high ideals, but short of seeing it happening in practice I will put it into "wishful thinking" category, rather than one I can call a "real deal".My neighbors are really nice where I live. However, I would like to find a?community?that is self reliant, grows their ownfood, and is off fossil fuels. I would like to learn how to be more self reliant and develop income streams/self reliance outside of employment and the USA in?general! Since I am Gen X, I have not had the benefits of the baby boomers and have little faith in the stock market, 401K or Social Security. I believe that when the roosters come home, the USA gov will get rid of social security, medicare, and haircut all of the retirement plans (it is the largest store of wealth in the USA). It is happening in other countries right now.unemployed?CPA?in Michigan thinks that baby boomers have benefits??As an end of the era baby boomer, I can tell you that as a girl among 40+ classmates throughout school in the 1960s, I couldn't get the time of day let alone appropriate?educationfrom my school system (considered a GOOD local school, by the way). My aptitudes in science,?engineering, math (the "boys" side of the COPS tests) would make a "geek" drool. No?counselor?or teacher even discussed education options w/me or even that if I got good grades, I could get $ to attend a?college. I wasn't even told what an SAT was; all I knew is that it's a test that costs $, which my family didn't have. You might need to study a little history instead of believing the propaganda perpetuated by a?government?that subscribes to the Aldous Huxley rule, if any culture threatens the control of the status quo, just make it look ridiculous. That's what I'm up against as a baby boomer (like a coworker who made ageneral?comment about "dirty old hippies". Like everyone else who works, I paid into Social Security w/the idea that our government would INVEST the $ so we would receive this retirement benefit. Nothing more. Nothing less. I doubt that the program American Greed will investigate what the US government did w/all that $.Common misperception. SS is not a "bank?account" with your name on it.This is how it works. The minute you pay into Social Security, it goes right out again. It is and was a Ponzi scheme from the minute FDR enacted it.Er, by the way, unless more young people are born who will pay into it, it will be broke in 18 years. So far, it ain't looking good.If one isn't angry over the current state of affairs, they'd be a zombie.?People who go along with the system and think everything is fine will never change things or make it better.?When you see what is wrong, how the world is digressing, you know what is going on.?People who think this is nothing but a little recession don't get it.?Gerald Celente has a good quote, "This is not free trade, it's slave trade."Nothing will happen until the people in the middle class and those who have slipped below the middle class will stop blaming those who have no chance to get into it. The documentary, INequality for All (please?google?the trailer, I can't post the link). is an attempt to unite people.it's also an attempt to show how the concentration of wealth at the top is unsustainable and not good for anyone - not the rich or poor. It features a filthy rich guy who has come to this realization in very recent years.It discusses laws that need to be changed, the workings of a successful economic engine, documents everyday working families and their pletely agree with you. Passivity never changed a thing in this country. We are going into a major crisis that is affecting the lives of millions of people and it's only going to get worse. It will be a good day when people finally start banding together in large groups and tell our politicians and corporate America that wee have had enough!Now should she address that Obama or ObozoCare? =bTrust me, I would really let Obama have it for doing such a poor job these last few years. I would also call him out on constantly lying about the low unemployment numbers and the slow job growth in the USA.I would also call him out on ObozoCare and the many job cuts in?healthcare.BTW,?I'm hoping for 15% returns on my 401k for the next 20 years. There will be no Social Security in the year 2033.The cuts in healthcare were inevitable. People can't afford to see the doctor and the?dentist?because they don't haveinsurance. Insurance companies rake in billions in profits, but you rather buzz about the president who didn't start this monumental problem. Healthcare should be affordable for all working people Beth. If it was, there would be no need to make cuts.And good for you for having a 401K. You are blessed. You are not the only person who worked hard and tried to save for their own future. Many of us did until we lost our jobs and had to cash in our retirements. I don't blame the president for my unemployment. I blame corporate greed that stared from way back when and I blame both parties for allowing this.If people like you would do a better job in educating themselves on how the economy really works, you could be part of the solution instead of a taking head for media outlets like Faux News and Rush Limbaugh.With all the dumb crap our taxes are used on today, it's unfortunate that this is the topic where people decide to take a stand.Cut other programs to keep taxes reasonable; there is plenty of waste out there. But a program that benefits many should not be sacrificed.This is a good guide, however, there just isn't much leeway to cut anymore. There aren't enough people making enough money above a living wage to be taxed that can help?government?revenue. The large corporations have moved to tax free countries where they can piss all over the land without worry of regulations and they don't have to pay workers much nor deal with unionizing.And we wonder why we have an immigation problem. Those US/global companies simply don't contribute much to the developing countries. A few execs, board members and investors walk off with more wealth, while our shores get inundated with immigrants.Raises hand on both accounts...I've searched for two years for something in my field, I finally accepted it this past summer that at age 45 I'm "too old," I just began my "exciting" new job as an?entry-level typist (temporary, of course), paying less money than what I made in 1993. The first week, I didn't think I'd last, I'd begin the day crying, cry at lunch, end the day crying...I really thought I was going to end it all, but I finally managed to "get over it," now I'm just a zombie going thru the motions. One of the things that hurts the most is hearing everyone around me say the same thing, "hey, it's a job" and "you're lucky to have a job." Well, at my age I foolishly expected to have a little something more than just "a job." And what comes next when this gig is over, a?cashier?at Target? Scrubbing toilets? And what do I say to people who tell me and who truly believe I should be "grateful" for the opportunity to be scrubbing toilets...? I truly feel I have nothing left to live for.You're not alone. I can't offer any advice. But there are many of us who know what you're going through. It's not pretty. I wish these experiences on No ONE.It has taken plenty of soul searching, usually in the dead of night when I've wondered "Now what" so many times, to come to grips I won't be resuming my career that got derailed 3 years ago.Wishing you success in getting something permanent when your temp gig is over.I have those same moments of utter despair. The few jobs that I will see that actually appeal to me and I have all the qualifications for will start at $8.00 an hour, the same wage I made in 1986 without a?college?degree! It's really awful to realize that you no longer have a say about where your career is going to take you. I'm 50+, so I know why I don't get the offers. I haven't had an interview in 2 months now and it's getting to me.The worst feeling is realizing that even if you get a job at this point, what are the chances of ever feeling like you will be appreciated and that hard work will pay off. After three layoffs in the last decade, I know that answer. :(I used to believe it all pays off. I have always been that employee that made it a point to never be just average. It's in my personality. In the past, I saw promotions and I saw raises. But you know what? I also saw layoffs that were never in my control. I no longer believe the best of the best stay safe from getting sh*t on. And I never had that attitude until recent times and trust me, I too don't believe the world owes me a thing. That's what makes all of this, all the more painful.I know what it's like too. I worked my tale off for corporate pharmacies since 1995. I put in 70 hours a week when they couldn't find anyone to work at the worst stores, so I could help them keep the doors open. I was the #2 immunizer for the entire region and I was the only pharmacist doing a medication therapy management program for them and not just my store but for 6 stores total created extra revenue for all six stores. Did they give a crap about me and all the extra work I did for them? NO! When my benefits got too expensive because of my age I was replaced. And the new graduate that I was replaced with was hired in at $25,000 less per year than I was making. This happened to me in 2011 at age 51 years old three weeks before Christmas!!! I spent the next year applying for jobs all over the state and not ONE SINGLE INTERVIEW. They can deduce form my years of experience on the application what age range I must be in and they're not interested despite my experience. I have had it with corporate America and all the internal politics. You try to get ahead and the person above you is pushing you down so you don't get their job and the person behind you is pulling you down because they want your job. Find a way to work for yourself.That is a raw deal and it is happening all over the place, especially to our generation of hard workers. And I don't want to hear that we just have a bad attitude. I have always been humble in the work arena and I certainly don't go to interviews with a chip on my shoulder. But there comes a time when we all have to agree this is plain abuse when these employers want all our talents and experience, but decide they rather hire someone half our age and exploit them.Can you open your own pharmacy? I was an?accountantwith experience and doing a great job and the newcontroller?came in promised that he was not going to lay us off.. He came in 2 weeks later and laid all of us off. Most of us were beyond 40 years old. We were replaced with young "pretty" women just out of school. One of the girls could not afford to move out of her parent's house with the salary she was getting.Oh no. My grandfather bought some newspapers on the day my mother was born in 1923. We still have them. Those classified ads are hilarious. Right there in black and white some of them read "No Negroes or Jews need apply". LOL!Well, at least they were honest.Yup. We need today's ads to read...Do NOT apply if; you are over the age of 40, have anything less than a Bachelor's degree for?file clerk?duties, can't speak 5 languages, require any training, need any holidays or weekends off, and your salary requirements exceed $8.00 an hour.My son has looked for those grunt jobs like cleaning cages in?animal?hospitals. They say they want "experience". That makes me sad because this kid was raised with all sorts of animals and he has a huge heart for them, as I do. He doesn't want more than minimum wage and he would never miss a day of work if given the chance.I honestly don't know how some kids ever get a start. Not all of them are outgoing and cut out for retail.I think a lot of?HR?people set the bar too high for an?entry level?job... =(They eliminate so many great potential people by stating a person "must have experience", even with the grunt jobs that anyone eager could learn. Every single job I was ever successful at, I was not experienced at coming in. Someone had to teach me. But I took that training serious and I worked hard to be the best I could at whatever was given me. I have a pretty wide range of experience ingeneral?and I know that 90% of those jobs I apply to, I could be just as great as someone that may have more experience at one specific task. An eagerness to learn can be a better match then someone who knows the job already, but may be complacent about it. When you really think about it, no two companies do anything exactly alike. Everyone needs training and attitude is key to having a great employee. I trained enough people in my day to say this from a place of experience.HiI have driven miles to meet many recruiters. I have met them all and spent a ton on gas. Not even one interview from them. All my interviews were from me sending in apps.They're a waste. It's like going through the unemployment office and having them help you find a job. In Oregon it's the Workforce of Oregon and they only know how to help people who have minimal experience. Anyone with anything more they don't know what to do. Most of the people working in the UC have been there 20-30+ years and have zero clue of the real unemployment world.... :(My rant for the day and I am absolutely ticked.I LOVE Obamacare. YES! YES! YES! My private?insurancecompany dropped me today!!!!!!!!!! YAHOO! RIDE EM COWBOYS! As if being F'in unemployed wasn't bad enough. I don't need this crap or any of the F's out there who think this moron has any degree of competency. GAWD.Peace and love to all!I was disappointed that Congress spent so much time and money trying to kill it, instead helping work out the problems. If it kicked in earlier, I could have ditched COBRA.Here is the problem,?insurance?that could be afforded is now going to be cancelled. For many people that live in a state that decided not to expand Medicaid those folks are screwed. Essentially it is money that many have to come up with that they just didn't have. It isn't "free" as some people seem to think.Medicaid isn't free. It is "cost shifted". Every Band-Aid is eventually paid for; maybe not by you but by someone.The problem is that we are running out of "someones".The question is what will happen then?I remember how much flack she and Bill Clinton took for even addressing the issue of?healthcare?some 25 years ago. They were pushing for nationalized care before we had this many people without affordable care like today. Their idea went over like a lead balloon. But they saw what was coming. Privatized?insurance?is no longer affordable to most and it's not the fault of the sitting president. ObamaCare is a big fat mess, but that's only because of all the forces working against it. Just check out the profits insurance companies are still making.Obamacare should never have built around a website; its far too ambitious and far too complex even for Canadian and Indian subcontractors. The scope of what that thing is trying to do is like trying to build The Great Pyramid of Cheops in a week.The truth is, even when a company rolls out new software, the time leading up to it is called, "The Death March".I totally agree that it was so complex that trying to roll out the site while every politician was still arguing about it. But they did offer a phone number option. Also, in Massachusettes where the framework began, few people signed up initially, then it slowly gathered momentum and they are saving state money on the pla.nd sadly, people go to the emergency room because they won't get turned away there. You should see the local?hospital?in my area on any given weekend. It looks like a freak show, very few being real emergencies. We all pay for that.Emergency medicine is THE most expensive kind and most of it is paid for by other people. A Tylenol isn't really $5.00 but when 9 other people can't pay 50 cents for it then you, being the 10th one get stuck with the entire tab. Ain't nothing free. Don't think it.This year is coming to a close and I have a policy which doesn't kick in unless I get hit by a bus. Too date, I have spent about $300 at Urgent Care and that is much cheaper than Obamacare.Course, I don't do anything as stupid as smoke, drink or enjoy myself on tropical vacations.And sadly, people go to the emergency room because they won't get turned away there. You should see the local?hospital?in my area on any given weekend. It looks like a freak show, very few being real emergencies. We all pay for that.This is exactly what I saw at the hospital I worked at. Most could have gone to an Urgent Care facility. Back when I worked at the hospital, a visit to the emergency room cost on an average $800.00. I have gone to Urgent Care in the past with no?insurance?and ended up paying $75.00. :]I go to Urgent Care and its about $80.00 now and you get more than 10 minutes with this doctor!I don't understand why people won't use Urgent Care. It's cheap and every time I've gone there isn't a wait like there is at the?hospital?ER.I've noticed Urgent Care centers popping up all over my neighborhood. There is one that just opened up a month ago 5 blocks from my house and another one just a few weeks ago about a mile away. :0I tried it for the first time this summer and didn't have a great experience. A lady's dog bit me, a policeman saw if, and was going to force me to get an ambulance. It's a long story and not a good one, but I was able to get him to agree that I'd go across the street to the urgent care facility instead. It was a minor puncture wound to my forearm, not a big deal. He escorted me over there and I was shocked at what I saw.The whole visit cost me > $200, the waiting room was filthy, some family had come with their 8000 kids and they tore the place up while both mom and dad were being seen simultaneously, the staff was indifferent, and the doctor saw me long enough to order a bandaid and a tetanus shot. It was as bad, if not worse, than an inner?city?ER, minus people showing up with gunshot wounds. I am sure it would have been more expensive to go to the ER at a private hospital in my network, but if I was really sick after hours, I'd strongly consider it over ever going back to that place again. It was so disgusting.Doc-in-the-Boxes(Urgent Care) are much like Jack-in-the-Boxes in that each franchise is independently owned and operated.They are not for after hours or if you have a knife in your back. Conversely, ERs are not for kids with ear infections. They should be turning those people away.The Urgent Cares I've been to are pretty clean. Now when I have blood work done and go to a?lab?those places are absolutely filthy…they give me the heebie jeebies. =@After working in a hospital I will tell you I hope I don't have to be admitted for any period of time, especially ER. They might look clean on the surface but I'm a clean freak and part of my job was making sure certain medical equipment was up to sanitary standards and typically it wasn't… ;\I don't know how anyone human can deal coherently w/the job search process. I lost my job as of 10/1, & I'm feeling a little crazy already. Maybe it's just the stages of grief associated w/any loss? In this forum, I feel for everyone who indicates the frustrations of a complete lack of understanding about unemployment time. We had two speakers @ a job seminar recently. One stated that she gets 50-200 applications for an?entry level?part time minimum wage job (some applicants have master's degrees) while the other said that she can't fill all the job openings she gets as a?counselor?for medical students @ local?community?college, we shouldn't believe the news that there aren't jobs available, & if people can't get a job, it's their own fault! So these two women contradict each other about job openings, I guess I'm hallucinating that there's barely a page of employment in local papers where there were once 2-8, & talk about a heartless counselor @ community college!?I remember how much flack she and Bill Clinton took for even addressing the issue of?healthcare?some 25 years ago. They were pushing for nationalized care before we had this many people without affordable care like today. Their idea went over like a lead balloon. But they saw what was coming. Privatized?insuranceis no longer affordable to most and it's not the fault of the sitting president. ObamaCare is a big fat mess, but that's only because of all the forces working against it. Just check out the profits insurance companies are still making.Private?health?insurance is "no longer affordable" because the?government?has allowed big pharma & the FDA to gouge people for medications that you can get overseas for a fraction of the price; because of the?law?that anybody who shows up to the emergency room has to be treated regardless of their ability to pay, so the illegal immigrants & people who do not have insurance for whatever reason use it like a clinic & don't pay the bills so the cost gets dumped back into the "insurance pool" and that's why the premiums have gone through the roof; doctors are so terrified to get sued that they do million dollar workups on everybody which often consists of tests that are totally unnecessary; and because the life expectancy of people is no longer 68 years old--people are living into their late 80's and 90's, and with that comes a bunch of health problems that cost money.Absolutely spot on! I wish people would understand that big pharma and big insurance are raking in billions of dollars profit, all the while we have had people choosing groceries over medications. This is deplorable and should bother anyone with a conscience. I guess it's a lot easier to point the fingers at Obamacare instead of all the factors that got us here.It's amazing when you see how much other countries pay for the same pharmaceutical drugs we get. It's a fraction of the cost what we pay. Pharmaceutical drugs is like racketeering, only it's?legal. =(Obamacare is a very bad solution to a very complex, out of control problem. Until?health care?costs are reined in, people stop using emergency rooms as clinics for sore throats, gonorrhea & when they get the flu, pharmaceutical companies quit charging 100 times more for a drug than what the same drug costs in India, doctors stop ordering tests that people don't need to protect themselves from being sued & people realize that doctors are not gods & that they are human beings & they make mistakes too, the costs will not go down. Mandating that everybody havehealth?insurance should be what makes them get rid of thelaw?that you have to be taken care of if you show up at an emergency room regardless of your ability to pay. If everyone has some sort of insurance, because it has been made a law, then every?hospital?should be paid for all emergency room visits & no care should go unpaid. What they need to do is to STOP illegal immigrants from using our health care system & not paying for it!! And, make it mandatory that all babies born within U.S. borders have to have one parent that is already a U.S. citizen in order for the baby to be a U.S. citizen. We're so busy taking care of people that aren't American citizens that the American citizens are suffering, yet they are the ones paying all the bills.If I lived close enough to cross a border and get my drugs at a fraction of the cost, I would do it.Years ago my sister-in-law?went to vacation in Mexico and she brought me back a tube of Tretinoin cream (Retin-A), pharmaceutical grade. It cost her $8.00 and she didn't need a prescription. Here a prescription is needed and at the pharmacy it was $85.00…. =bI am all for decreasing immigration, unemployment is bad enough for the Americans. It isn't popular to say it though. I think it is reasonable for a parent of US citizenship to be the forward going qualification. The other thing that needs to stop is work visas. It is killing IT,?engineering, and nursing.Google?what some American pharmaceutical companies tried to do in India---they tried to sue for an injunction to get Indian drug companies to stop making generic medications because the American drug companies were losing profits!! Sure, big companies are all for capitalism & competition, until their profits get gouged in by another company who can manufacture the same thing for a fraction of the price. Then, capitalism is no good & they sue the other company to preserve their profits rather than lowering their prices to actually compete with the other companies. It's ridiculous. And the drug companies always try to say that their high costs are because of the extensive research &development?that they do to get FDA approval. The FDA is another scam, protecting the?financial?interest of the drug companies & their?CEO's. Approving drugs without the proper research studies to make sure that use of the drugs doesn't cause you to grow a horn out of your forehead just to expedite a big drug company's income & profit margin is not what the FDA's purpose is. Their purpose (or purported purpose) is to protect the people & keep them safe. Who they really are protecting is the top level managers & keeping their fat salaries & bonuses safe.Obamacare is a very bad solution to a very complex, out of control problem. Until?health care?costs are reined in, people stop using emergency rooms as clinics for sore throats, gonorrhea & when they get the flu, pharmaceutical companies quit charging 100 times more for a drug than what the same drug costs in India, doctors stop ordering tests that people don't need to protect themselves from being sued & people realize that doctors are not gods & that they are human beings & they make mistakes too, the costs will not go down. Mandating that everybody have?health?insurance?should be what makes them get rid of the?law?that you have to be taken care of if you show up at an emergency room regardless of your ability to pay. If everyone has some sort of insurance, because it has been made a law, then every?hospital?should be paid for all emergency room visits & no care should go unpaid. What they need to do is to STOP illegal immigrants from using our health care system & not paying for it!! And, make it mandatory that all babies born within U.S. borders have to have one parent that is already a U.S. citizen in order for the baby to be a U.S. citizen. We're so busy taking care of people that aren't American citizens that the American citizens are suffering, yet they are the ones paying all the bills.AMEN… I use to work at a trauma hospital and saw this all the time! Unbelievable what you see when you work in a hospital that others don't see… I can understand why some get discourage with the way the system is set up. If you see first hand the BS and waste of money that goes on in hospitals, it's unimaginable! :\Use an online Indian pharmacy. There are 2 very good ones. You can get 6 months' worth of medication for less than what your co-pay for one month would be in this country. The drugs are generic & manufactured there. The b***sh** that the FDA tries to scare the people with is just that---B***SH***. If the medications had rat poison in them or some other toxic substance, people all over the world would be dropping dead because everywhere else in the world they're using the generic meds that are not manufactured in this country. When people didn't believe what the FDA was saying, and continued to get their expensive chemo meds & other stuff from Canada or wherever, cutting into the profits of the big pharma companies, the FDA went to the?credit?card companies & made it illegal for them to pay offshore pharmacies. That is how far our?government?will go to protect big pharmaceutical companies. The problem is that the vast majority of people have no idea what's going on because they've got their heads stuck so far down in the sand, they can't hear anything.Please---the?fraud?& abuse of the system is mind boggling. You never hear a politician talk about how much debt hospitals have to absorb---that just gets passed onto the people that have medical?insurance?through higher premiums---that comes from illegal immigrants not paying for?health care?services from hospitals. How many illegals pay for the costs of all the anchor babies that they're popping out? In one of the hospitals where I live, in 2010 they had to eat 80% of the costs from the maternity ward. EIGHTY PERCENT!! Why? Because that 80% was illegal immigrants popping out anchor babies. They don't care because they can't be traced or gone after by the hospital or?collection?agencies because they're not citizens, don't have a social security number, do not work on the books so their salaries cannot be garnished, get paid in cash so they don't file income taxes......I could go on about this topic for days, and still not end there. No politician ever will talk about it, either, because they don't want to lose the minority votes. To the politicians, it's all about being re-elected. That's why we need term limits for Congress and the Senate---when the motivation for them to do the right thing becomes about protecting the American people & not about what's going to get them the most votes in the next election, things will change. Until then, nothing is going to change.I am all for decreasing immigration, unemployment is bad enough for the Americans. It isn't popular to say it though. I think it is reasonable for a parent of US citizenship to be the forward going qualification. The other thing that needs to stop is work visas. It is killing IT,engineering, and nursing.Why do you think employers are now requiring us to bebilingual?for jobs that have nothing to do with?customer service? They WANT immigrants,?legal?and illegal, for the cheap?labor?aspect of it.Obamacare is just another action that the?government?took to ensure that insurance companies continue to make money. It is another "tax" disguised as something good. Mandating that every AMERICAN buy?health?insurance is unconstitutional--it's like telling everybody that they have to buy a car, & that each state will have certain car companies selling certain models in their state, & that they can buy a base model car all the up to a luxury sedan---the choice is theirs. Forcing people to PURCHASE something from for-profit companies is unconstitutional, but there are so many people out there who think it's a great thing because "so many more people will have insurance". The expansion of the Medicaid system will increase the premiums for everybody else that is paying for their?health care. And now that "everybody" is required to have insurance, then EVERYBODY that shows up to the emergency room should be able to produce an insurance card. If they can't, then they should have to pay the cost of what the E.R. visit is & NO COSTS should have to be absorbed by the hospitals. I find it odd that the government has mandated that all AMERICANS have to purchase insurance, but they said NOTHING about mandating illegal immigrants to purchase insurance or getting rid of the Emergency Medical Treatment &?Labor?Act. Why do you think so many hospitals have been forced to shut down?That is what makes me mad about Obamacare. It WILL profit the insurance companies even more. But before Obama ever took office, there were others that pushed for nationalized care and that went up like a led balloon.I just wish all?legal?citizens could get affordablehealthcare...period! We saw what happened when we relied on our jobs to have insurance.Much agreed! Obamacare is so flawed, but I get the premise of it. I would much rather do what other industrialized countries have done and that is to go for some sort of nationalized care, with the option of buying private?insurance?as a supplement.And yes!...stop illegals from having access to our?healthcare. That makes me crazy. Sadly, far too many people, including illegals, use hospitals as their first line of care since they don't have the means to see a regular doctor. I dread ever having to use an emergency room any time soon.Please--there are women running over the borders from Mexico into the states 9 months pregnant & in?labor?to have their babies in this country so the babies can qualify for welfare & WIC. That's how they feed their families! They breast feed the kids so that they can get real?food?like milk, cheese, etc. instead of formula and they feed their entire family with the food. If they have 2 or 3 kids, they get a lot of real food to feed the family. Then they use the cash that they're making at their housecleaning jobs to buy cars, cell phones, etc. They breast feed the kids until they go to school, practically, to maximize their WIC benefits. They live 35 people to a house. The?fraud?that goes on is mind boggling. They don't pay for the costs they jacked up to deliver their babies & they don't care because nothing can be done to them since they're not American citizens & don't have social security numbers. The?government?needs to stop taking care of everybody else & start taking care of it's own people. There is no other country on the face of this earth where somebody could walk into a?hospital?& get taken care of for free. The "freedom" in this country that my grandparents rode in the hull of a boat for, for 2 weeks to get here, has gotten out of hand. Now, the American citizens have been unconstitutionally mandated to purchase insurance from for-profit companies.?I am all for decreasing immigration, unemployment is bad enough for the Americans. It isn't popular to say it though. I think it is reasonable for a parent of US citizenship to be the forward going qualification. The other thing that needs to stop is work visas. It is killing IT,engineering, and nursing.I know it! It's all about big profit for corporations. Never mind the long term implications of cutting the pay and benefits of American workers. At some point, we won’t be able to afford all these products that are being made.What do you think the solution should be? Any thoughts? The old system has failed. Employers aren't covering people any more.I think that at this point a solution has become so complicated because things have been allowed to get so out of hand for so long. The?government?should not be unconstitutionally mandating American citizens purchaseinsurance?from for-profit companies. If the government wanted to institute a single-payer system, then sit down & hammer out the financials for how much more each person would have to pay in taxes so that everybody could havehealth care. Don't let for-profit insurance companies collect the money so that the?CEO's can take home $18million bonuses every year. if every citizen in the country is covered, then anybody who shows up to an emergency room without the ability to verify their insurance has to pay up front, period, end of story. There should be NO REASON for any?health?care costs not to be covered. The problem is that the government is in the pockets of big insurance companies, big pharmaceutical companies, etc. & if a TRUE single payer system were to be initiated, those companies would lose A LOT of money. The solution has to start with regulating internal costs--but, from what I've recently read, just the opposite is happening. Obama wants to give free rein to pharma companies to increase medication costs & force off-shore generic medication production companies to stop producing generic meds that compete with American-made meds. What I find funny, though, is that no regulations apply to other companies outsourcing their production out of the country to save money. Why should it be any different? The rules should apply to EVERYONE, not selectively doled out. The TRUE solution is single payer. You pay more in taxes but never have to worry about being taken care of. The problem is that a single payer system destroys profits for medical companies.My son spent three days in the hospital for kidney stones. He had massive amounts which meant he needed a lot of IV flushing of the kidneys and pain management. Thankfully, he needed no invasive surgery, but guess what the bill was for his care? Ready? $49,000 for 3 days of pain management and?general?monitoring!!! He was covered byinsurance, thank goodness. But you can see why we have a huge problem.For a long time, Americans were told that medical care anywhere else but in this country was sub-par & that you'd have a bad result & probably die because the?governmentwanted to keep everybody requiring procedures &?health care?in this country because of the profit margin for all involved. However, once air travel became the norm, & people started to see that medical care in other countries was not dangerous & in fact, much cheaper & of the same quality, they decided to travel to those countries to have the surgery. There are many procedures done in other countries that are not FDA approved in this country, & they are performed successfully without incident. The way to control the people is to scare them. They tell us that the U.S. has the best medical care in the world, yet our infant mortality rate is worse than about 40 other countries. We are intent on having doctors deliver babies, where most other places in the world rely on midwives. When a laboring mother goes into the?hospital, they are immediately put on a Pitocin drip to accelerate?labor---WHY? In other countries, women labor until the babies are ready to be born on their own timelines. Pregnancy & childbirth are not medical "conditions"---they are the most normal physiological process known to human beings. It doesn't have to be controlled or "helped along". Babies know where to go & how to get there. When this country can really prove that its care is the best in the world, then I'll believe it.It's out of hand, for sure. 3 days for kidney stones without any surgery sounds like a lot. I've had chronic kidney stones for 15 years, & have never been admitted to a hospital. I've had numerous surgical procedures, but they were always done on an outpatient basis. There is much truth to the "wallet biopsy" stories--people with better insurance tend to get admitted to hospitals more frequently than people with crappy or no insurance. Doctors are actually being taught about the economic aspects of patient care in medical school now---can you believe that? A human being's care is dependent on their insurance & how well the hospital is going to get paid? I was in the hospital in August for a very unexpected diagnosis--2 days in ICU and one day on a telemetry floor---& I am getting bills from doctors I never even saw! Every test I had was read by a different doctor, so a co-pay for each of them, & considering I had a bunch of tests from a chest xray to EKG to echocardiogram to sonogram of my leg, those co-pays add up. In addition to the specialist, I was seen by a "hospitalist" every day & he really had no contribution to my care. Then there was the emergency department physician & admitting physician---2 different people. And everybody is scratching their heads wondering why?health care?costs are so high? Give me a break! Add to that my $1,250 deductible, and all of a sudden my "great" insurance plan isn't so "great" anymore. I ended up having to pay about $3,000, & I have private insurance!!When my Dad was born, my grandfather paid him with a smoked ham and a dozen eggs!The doctor lived in the next town and my father was already out by the time he came. The doctor said that he would come back in 3 days to check on everybody and that is when my grandfather paid him!My father was born in a house with two midwives and they didn't have co-pays back then! LOL!I like that!When we were growing up our Doctor made house calls!When my mom had my sister and the?hospital?bill was $75.00, she spent an entire week in the hospital. Nowadays you pop out a chap, spend 12-24 hours in the hospital, get booted out and the bill is thousands of dollars! :)What other country is clamoring for an American stylehealth care?system?My European relatives to this day, can't understand why you need a job or a husband before you see a doctor.Certainly, our?health?care system is broken.... unless one has money of course. How come we hear of people in other countries coming here to get operations (if they have money of course)? Because the waiting list is so long in their country, they could well be dead or severely disabled before the operation would take place......Agreed, universal health care is a wonderful ideal.... and would be great to have if done right.Certainly, our?health care?system is broken.... unless one has money of course. How come we hear of people in other countries coming here to get operations (if they have money of course)? Because the waiting list is so long in their country, they could well be dead or severely disabled before the operation would take place......Agreed, universal?health?care is a wonderful ideal.... and would be great to have if done right.I disagree. Because health care in other countries is prioritized does not mean that people needing surgery would die or be severely disabled before the operation would take place. If you don't get a knee arthroscopy, you won't die or lose your leg. Unless a surgery is the difference between life or death, like a fast growing malignant mass in your brain or elsewhere, a ruptured aneurysm, etc., most procedures can wait. What the problem is, is that most people CANNOT wait, which is a product of the me, me, me society & instant gratification. In the times of cell phones, text messages, take-out?food, people have forgotten what PATIENCE is. What did everybody do before they had a cell phone attached to their ear? They waited until they got home to call someone. What did they do before ATM machines? They had to wait until after 9am & the?bank's doors opened. Technology is great, but it changes people. People have a very inflated sense of self-importance these days, & it is actually quite amusing.I think a big problem is that people have stuck their heads so far in the sand that they don't know what is even going on in this country. They watch the mainstream media reports & believe everything they're being force fed. I'm not conspiracy theorist or anything--the things I've said are facts. People hear one person from Canada or Europe complaining because they can't get their cataracts operated on for a month & think that a single-payer system is horrible. While the eventual goal is to have a single payer system, with everybody's medical records stored on a central?database?server so that all medical providers can access them, for now they have to placate the insurance companies & big pharma to ensure big campaign contributions for the next election. The problems have gotten so bad & complicated because it seems that everything has become interconnected, like an octopus. You can't do something abouthealth care?without regulating the insurance industry, & you can't regulate the insurance industry without doing something about the costs of care & medications, & you can't do anything about the costs without addressing how much is being spent on workups & care because doctors are terrified of being sued, & you can't address the doctors without considering tort reform...it's a web of sh**. Stop allowing insurance companies to dictate what medications can be prescribed by the people that spent 7, 8, 9, 10, & even 15 years learning about the medication in the first place. Stop allowing the multi-million dollar jury verdicts for medical malpractice lawsuits & that will lower malpractice premiums.One of my professors said that technology will change social behavior and not always for the better.We played a game at my last job. I would get an email and I wouldn't respond. Ten minutes later, I would get a phone call (from the same party that sent the email) and I would let it go to voice mail.Twenty minutes later, the same party would walk by my office and say, "Heeeeey, how's it going? Did you get my email?" We would all burst out laughing.Technology has created this instant gratification society. How many teenagers do you see out & about that aren't glued to their iPhones? How many people do you see that actually drive the speed limit? How patient are we when we get told that we have to wait a few minutes for a table in a restaurant, or a doctor's appointment, or at the hair salon? Can you imagine having to live now without a?computer, or a cell phone, or an ATM card? You can't even look for jobs or apply for jobs without the internet. My mother is required to have her social security directly deposited into her checking?account?& they do not issue checks---so, thegovernment?has her?banking?information. Same thing with unemployment. I am a victim of the instant gratification society too, just as much as anybody else. I actually bought a remote starter for my car, because I am too much of a priss to walk outside in the cold & start my car 15 minutes before I have to leave the house! And everybody talks about the obesity epidemic--just take a look at EVERYTHING during the day that technology has taken over: you don't pull your garage door up or down, you press a button. Lawnmowers have self-propelled wheels to make them easier to push (that is, if you even mow your own lawn!). You don't have to walk to your neighbor's house to ask if they have a cup of sugar--you just text them. You don't have to get up to change the TV channel--you press a button on a little box.Yup! The problem is that we are becoming slaves to the technology instead of the masters of it.One of my pet peeves is people constantly texting and on their cell phones. It's a strange addiction. You can be in a room full of people and half of them are sending a text instead of carrying on a conversation. People are loosing social skills. You walk down the street most of them on cells or so busy texting they would run right into you. Most people have an anxiety attack if they forgot their iphone. I must be one of the few in the country who doesn't have one. It's a bizarre world to me.Nothing more hilarious than someone walking into a ditch, a pothole or a fountain because their were sending a text and not watching where they were going. But on the not so funny side people have had wrecks and taken lives because of it to. It never fails some idiot?driving?down the road is sending a text or on their phone.I have family in?law enforcement?and see first hand the cr@p they deal with. Some put them down and think they are all bad apples. Yes, there are always bad apples in the bunch, but the majority of them are risking so much to protect us. I have a lot of respect for people who's jobs are to protect or take care of us! :)?If you don't get a knee arthroscopy, you won't die or lose your leg. Unless a surgery is the difference between life or death, like a fast growing malignant mass in your brain or elsewhere, a ruptured aneurysm, etc....Even if the particular surgery is something that the doctors say "can wait", my first question is "how much pain will I have to live with until the surgery?" Will I be confined to a wheel chair until the knee or leg surgery is done? If there is considerable pain/ discomfort, etc, I would want the surgery within weeks, not months myself. Quality of life can slide downhill fast under the wrong circumstances....I rarely talk on my phone. I text, I email, I Facebook. Plus it is a scientific fact that an iPhone is kryptonite for a screaming child. Hey sweetie, if you can STFU for a few minutes while mommy tries to check out at the?grocery store, you can play Angry Birds in the car ride home.Works LITERALLY every time.Gee---when I was growing up it was "Stop screaming or else you're going to get a good smack across the face when we get in the car." That's what stopped my generation from screaming in a store---we knew better.Those days are long gone. I'm ok with having to find other ways to discipline. It appeals to my?creative?side. Mine are pretty good - because I don't drag them to the store if I can avoid it. That's the real problem. Kids misbehave because parents are so self absorbed today and insist on treating their kids like little adults. They arent! They're kids! And guess what??Grocery?shopping is super boring for a kid. So they do what kids do and that's see what they can get away with.100% agreed. Your child really needs a nap right up until about age 3 1/2. And a little past that they need a srtuctured rest time. Taking a kid out in mid afternoon is just setting yourself up for trouble. And there are a million other stages that people seem oblivious to. Parenting done right is very attention intensive. I think this has been completely overlooked in the last 20 years.I didn't whack me kids around either. But if they did something wrong, they sure heard about. And after that there was a discussion of rewinding the?event?and what could be done to avoid problems the next time. Plus we always insisted they refer to adults as Ms. And Mr. - even if the adult insisted on their first name.You and I are the same page with this. Agree, especially that last part. I was forever correcting a few of my daughter's friends who thought it was OK to address me by my first name. It actually shocked me the first time that happened. My daughter was certainly taught better.I also agree with you and Better! It takes a lot of quality time to raise yourchildren. My boys were also taught to respect others, please and thank you were a natural part of their vocabulary.When my boys were young, teachers and friends would always comment on how polite the boys were. They weren't born polite, they were taught it. Today they are young, respectable men and they have told me many times they're thankful for the way their father and I raised them. Very proud of them and I love them so much! :)When I was told by my son's teacher that he was the most polite boy in his class, I was beaming. Everyone seems to want their kid to be the smartest or the best athlete. I just want to raise mine to be decent people with good manners. The rest will work itself out.Facebook is like a high school reunion that never ends. Constant one-upping people that you really have no interest in having a relationship with in real life.LOL---You're so right. And what makes me laugh is people that post pictures daily or every thought that goes through their head or every move they make on a daily basis. Give it a rest. Do you really think you're that important that everybody wants to know your daily?exercise?routine, or that you are eating ice cream, or videos of your kids dancing? Good Lord.My nephew posts pictures of what he had for dinner last night at a Thai restaurant? I really don't care. Should I?I kind of relate Facebook to the ultimate in boredom---taking pictures offood?& posting it is the epitome of boredom, isn't it? I thought daily pictures of your kids making cookies, running down the street, making stupid faces & sitting across from you in a diner was bad. Food is much worse. It's like taking a picture of the grass. "Here's the Kentucky Blue I planted last fall. It's so green & fluffy!"But there are people that would get hundred of "Likes" and 20 comments if posted "Here's the Kentucky Blue I planted last fall. It's so green & fluffy!". If I posted it...promptly ignored."Awww, that grass is so cute"That's because the people that would "Like" the post are posting pictures of their grass too, to show that their grass is greener & fluffier than the grass they're "liking". It would say "Love your grass!! Here's a pic of my grass that I water with special, ionized water & whose dirt I carefully sowed with manure from cows that only eat grass watered with special, ionized water & defecate in special areas made specifically for the safe storage of gourmet cow dung!"LOL. I hear you! I wonder if these people that are doing this are also unemployed.The most prolific facebookers I know are retired or SAHMs.?Here, if one of your richest relatives invites you to come over and help take the wheels off of his new brand home, you might be a Redneck.Baltimore used to have "official" projects. Multiple high rise towers that looked like prisons for all the.... how do I put this.... "underprivileged". Back in the '90's, Baltimore decided it was time for those buildings to come down. The low income?housing?was literally spread around the?city.Yes, there are "nicer" pockets of Baltimore, but a block away is, well, not such a good area.In California and in Texas, Spanish is almost a requirement if you are in any kind of?front office?setting.When I look for jobs I use the phrase blah, blah, blah and NOT Spanish and NOT?bilingual. That narrows the field down to about 3 jobs.I haven't seen the following lately, but a few years ago, there were numerous ads in my area that specifically stated "women and minorities encouraged to apply". Yes, in those exact words.Well, since Baltimore?city?is majority African American, that, by definition, puts me in the minority class for this area. But, that is not what the employers meant.So, in a city that is majority African American, why were (are) companies not getting enough "minority" applicants?And though I am not racist, qualifying a job ad with the above statement does put me at a disadvantage......The area I am in almost everyone is?bilingual. Who knew in central Oregon? I took many Spanish classes in?college, but that was 20 years ago. So it has been difficult for me to be in settings where there is only Spanish spoken. My friend is a?chef?so I am not sure why they wanted him to speak Spanish. I almost didn't get my part time job because I am not fluent.?I haven't seen the following lately, but a few years ago, there were numerous ads in my area that specifically stated "women and minorities encouraged to apply". Yes, in those exact words.Well, since Baltimore?city?is majority African American, that, by definition, puts me in the minority class for this area. But, that is not what the employers meant.So, in a city that is majority African American, why were (are) companies not getting enough "minority" applicants?And though I am not racist, qualifying a job ad with the above statement does put me at a disadvantage......I used to see those ads too and I happen to believe it is code for "this job is low wage". Hate to say it, but it's a fact women and minorities do tend to earn lower wages. There are plenty of discriminatory language out there such as, "college?grads welcomed!", code for, "we like young, naive students". I would like to see all language like that eliminated. I am a Caucasian woman in her 50s that never understood the sting of discrimination until it happened to me personally. I think companies discriminate on all sorts of levels. Let's face it, they need to say, "if you aren't related or connected to someone already internal, you are on the bottom of our list of interviews".Whaaaa! I can't get a job because of Taleo!?Whaaaa! I can't get a job because I'm not a minority!?You have an excuse for everything, don't you? Being a victim must be awfully tiring.I can honestly say that in all my years of?hiring?and firing, minority status has never been an issue. I've never been pressured to hire or not hire someone because the color of their skin. I once had to hire a fluent Spanish speaker to handle a project I had down in Uruguay. And guess what I hired? *gasp* a white guy. He had the best qualifications for the job and spoke Spanish fluently. If he had been a minority, or heck, even an orange cat, he still would have gotten the job. I've spent 20 years working for Fortune 100 companies, household names. This is the way that it is done. There is not a secret room of people discussing ways they can raise diversity while holding non-minorities back.In the end, your skills, your personality, and your price are what matters. Everything else is just noise.My job at Walgreens has been threatened because I don't have enough suggestive sales of the item of the month. Are they allowed to do that?In most states, they don't even need a reason to?fire?you. They just come up with something to avoid lawsuits.?Hang in there and never take any of it personally.Things could be worse. You could work in the death camp with me.I've been there less than a year. 35% of employees are gone either via quitting or firing in less than a year. There have been two terminations in the last few weeks. There's another one coming this or next week.You can imagine the tension and stress in the atmosphere based on the above alone. But there's more to it. The atmosphere creates even more tension between the individual employees. I've not seen more games, more immature behavior or more inappropriate, unprofessional conduct in the entire expanse of my working life. It's a zoo.There's even more to it than the above which I can't even get into. It's really not the work; it's the atmosphere and the threatening, attack emails coming from up high to the entire office. It's several things which will go unnamed waiting to happen.I'm still there, but it's ripping my soul to shreds on a daily basis. It's still better than being unemployed. I know how hard being unemployed is and how it grates on you, but this experience is right there at that low, low level. Every day I and everyone else is on tenterhooks wonders if we'll have a job the following day.One day...I think a lot of places are like this now, it's not one type of industry.?All one can do is one's best.?I agree about this not being morally better than being unemployed. It is hard to know if the job will be there next month.I am trying to think of ways to go into?business, because I feel there isn't much security working for someone else anymore. Not that having a business would be all that secure, but it sure would beat working like this.Hang in there.You truly have my condolences. Every time I am tempted to feel sorry for myself for not having a job, I think of situations like yours and I get the shivers up my spine. I KNOW the atmosphere you work in and have been there myself more than once in my life. The psychological toll can't be measured. It's the only situation I can think of where you don't have much control until you either walk out the door or they show you the door.I hope you can get out as soon as possible.I'm not currently unemployed, but I absolutely cannot stand my current job and I cannot get out of it for the life of me. Nobody will hire me.I've come to the realization that there are very few career choices..there'sHealthcare?(which I would say has the most employees, saturated, most of the time lack decent pay and everyone is burnt out..unless your a doctor of some sort), Manual?labor?(which usually goes to those with a criminal record or no degree), Sciences (bio,?chemist,?engineer),Education?(over saturated and almost impossible to find a job).?A bachelors degree is like having a high school diploma, but it costs thousands more. Masters is the next step and another $20,000+ sometimes. Some people with 2 year degrees or no degree make more than those with bachelors or masters!The whole thing is unbalanced! There are too many people looking for jobs, the jobs that are?hiring?are looking for people that don't exist (top of the line,?bilingual, has 3 years experience, supervisor experience, 7 references and this that and the other). The jobs that would hire people off the street are in some other country somewhere. People keep going back to school but the same thing keeps happening. I'm not sure if it even matters what career your in..I think it's the same everywhere.I'm pretty sure it's over for me. I have no degree and I am in my mid fifties. It doesn't matter that I have lots of great experience, had a few decent job titles, and my own?business...I can't even get a bite from Craigslist these days. Perhaps my gap is too large. I have been out of work for a year and half. But I am hardly stale. I am a voracious reader and I like to do all sorts of things to keep myself sharp and in the loop. I have tons of connections, but they have no job openings. They all know I am chomping at the bit to get something...anything...part time...low pay...anything to start.It is not over for you! You have so much to offer UU!I was thinking the same thing, I felt like something was terribly wrong with me because I couldn't even find part time work. What I will say is part time beats?full time, especially after reading Parafreegal's post. For me, part time bypasses all the office BS. I go in, do my job, I'm not there long enough to see all the crap that goes on.You will find a job…I know you will, when you least expect it will happen. :)The jobs situation has been bad in Chicago for at least six years. It's gotten no better. There's a slew of underemployed people out there on top of the unemployed. Places just aren't?hiring, and if they are hiring it's likely temps.I can't stay at this place for very long. I'm a pretty healthy dude and have kept off the weight I lost doing that graveyard shift down at the mill, but the monumental stress of the gulag cannot be good for me or anyone else working there. My eyes have been open the entire time I've been there, but I've had no interviews. That's too bad because the experience I'm getting now will be very valuable going forward.It's bad where I am too. I think most major metropolitan areas just have too many people for the jobs available. I will actually raise an eyebrow when I see a job ad I haven't applied for.So, the situation with this dude blowing up at me twice over nothing yesterday? I guess the resolution is we both agree to just work together. And then something went out to the entire office about dispute resolution in?general. This dude is going to get away with while I'm painted as the bad guy. The whole thing was caused and started by him, and I only raised my voice a tiny bit compared to this guy completely losing it over absolutely nothing. I'm not sure if I've been warned or written up yet. I just sit here shaking my head at all of this craziness. The pressure, stress and drama is just through the roof. Never have I been so dissatisfied in an office job.Oh, raises are coming out. There haven't been any reviews. There hasn't been any notice. I guess you just look at your check and figure it out?Seriously. I'm just stunned.Have you noticed this? The more emotional they are, the more drama they create, the more valued they are??If you show up on time, if you do your job 100+%, do all the things they ask you to do, use the pink postits, not the yellow ones, blah blah blah, it is still not enough.?I really believe "they", meaning the knuckleheads who get promoted into bossdom, like things to be highly emotional.I used to work in life?insurance?offices. Companies left and right were leaving California. They would leave and I'd be stuck looking for another job. After about the 5th time and 15 yrs later I decided to heck with it. My blood pressure was up and I was on Paxil and Topomax for stress headaches. I was 55 years old competing against younger people. As a kid I was taught not to complain so kept things bottled up just glad I had a job. I haven't seen a doctor in the past 5 years due to no insurance. I now have a job as a nanny making as much as when I was in an office with a nice family and insurance. Went to the doctor who couldn't believe I was on no medications with perfect blood pressure and heart and I am now almost 61 years old. Point of the story is office life with all it's politics was killing me.I got laid off from a really good job. But because I have specialized skills, and come across as competent, employers either don't get back in touch with me or tell me I'm overqualified. Right. I get that. My mortgage still needs to be paid, my kids still need to eat. One employer even told me I was "too entrepreneurial". Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. My unemployment?insurance?runs out in 10 weeks, and it only covered 2/3rd of my expenses anyway.?I saw on the news that some job seekers 'just give up'. Oh, yeah? And what do they do for?food? My guess is that not all of them have trust funds or employed spouses. I sure don't. What I have is 5 kids who put their faith in me.You're like me, you'd do better with your own?business.?I can't say what they interpret, but I think they know we won't bow down to them.Buying old stuff helps defer costs too. Modern?furniture, appliances, and other goods were designed with planned opalescence. They are designed to fail after so many years to encourage replacement. Wasn't that way a generation or two were ago. You bought a sofa or a refrigerator, you bought it for life.I have no interest in buying some old appliances from the 70s, but I've slowly been replacing hints like my coffee table, dining set, etc. with antiques that I've salvaged. A little bit of elbow grease and staining, and they are as good as new. They sure take the damage of young?childrenfar better than the newer crap I bought for far more money. We found an old lawn mower tossed out in the trash this fall. Brought it home, spent 20 minutes tinkering with the engine, bought a new blade, good as new. Sure beats paying new for something if you aren't afraid to get your hands dirty.Good points.?I think the cars from long ago were far better made. Less cheap plastic. You could fix them yourself because they weren't computers on wheels.?Never see any commercials shouting about how well made cars are now. It's just about a lifestyle or feeling.Being unemployed is worse than being in my position. That's painful to admit given the amount of stress involved with this gig.They guy I worked with directly is now leaving. He was very, very close to getting fired and boom out of nowhere he puts in notice. Very little work was already being done. Now, no work will be done and it will all be on me. Outstanding!There will probably be 3-4 new folks starting in the next few weeks. This place churns through people like soft butter. And I'm a stick basically sitting out on the counter at this point. I've seen 50 times more garbage in this job than in all other jobs combined. I have a looming deadline and basically a warning to do something when...wait for it...I don't even have any file, papers or information from which to work. Meanwhile, the guy leaving is just going to blow it completely off. This case is an indication of a day in the life at this joint.?It works just like?advertising?on TV. The few advertisements that are actually fun to watch rarely increase sales because people don't pay enough attention to what the advertisement is for. Annoying ads tend to be effective because people remember the product the advertisement is for. So, if you just do your job you probably won't get noticed. If you fuss and whine constantly, you will.Yes, goes along with the increasing number of incompetent managers. They take these courses on how to manage, how to motivate their people, blah blah blah ad nauseum, but it's all books and on paper. Most manage with intimidation and favoritism.?Which is why everything is going to hell in a handbasket now. Manufacturing is essentially gone from the US. So we have these service sector jobs and dealing with the public which is just a living hell.?Try to find quality products and it's very hard to find.?But you go anywhere, and employees are forced to say hi to you, talk it up with you, more blah blah blah, but it's all just an act to get your?business. They do it at the?dentist, the store, the car repair, you name it. All acting, all a big front.?Gone is the day when it was all quiet politeness, and employees didn't have to act drugged-up cheery and prostrate themselves, and the work was done right.well yes they do ask for gaps in ur employment, even if that is only a month that u were unemployed.What do they expect us to do to fill this gap. They themselves are not willing to hire us. I do agree that every job has its own dignity, but I hate and do not agree with the idea of working in mcdonalds or burgerking as a cleaner after obtaining a masters degree. I could have very well invested the money i spend on?college?in starting my own small scale?business?. I am an msw graduate and worked in a group home for 2 years earning 8 dollars per hour to not have a gap and to keep myself engaged. Now they say they need college level job experience. The group home job is only high school level job experience. What a waist of two years.">>>>>>>How sad for people going through all this educational training and to not even recieve an?entry level?, moderately paying job in their chosen profession. BK, KFC, or Mickey D's are their employment/dream job choices?Yuck!<<<<<<<I totally agree with you, I am working on my masters degree and plan to stop after this semester for that reason. The direction employment is going today, leaves me feeling discouraged even with my bachelors degree, especially as I get older, its so sad.It only gets better.No, the guy who accused me of talking to him like a child is still there. He's a fixture.One of the guys I was working with who was this/close to being fired is leaving. He's been totally invisible, doing little work and is now doing pretty much zero work. He put in notice a week ago. I've not been told when his last day is. Bizarre but typical. He isn't responding to me and putting out any work. This puts me in the crosshairs, which is totally unwarranted.Today, yet again, I was asked by a boss where this guy was, what he was doing and if he's covering things this week. Again, I have no idea and have told them such. Within an hour, an email goes out to all saying if attorneys miss anything it's their staff's behinds as well. I'm not in control of this guy who's invisible and doing nothing, but sure, okay.A new guy is coming in to replace the guy above. This guy is going to work out of his home office 4-5 hours away. I guess they didn't learn anything from the other guy never coming in or working.Meanwhile 10% of the office consists of scared new people in the last week.The good news is I have an interview set up. Not sure about this though, as it's sort of outside of my area of experience. Still, I'll go anywhere.I am at the point where I have such a poor outlook on the workforce. I think about all the past experiences I've had and how none of them have really worked out...I know I will have to work again but I am dreading it.Contrary to what some people have told me, I'm not lazy, arrogant or difficult. I want to work, do my very best when I'm at work, and have a life outside of work. I'm tired of the office politics and "fitting in" crap and all the other stupid social and political stuff you have to do just to not be a target. I want to be a professional and represent a company well. I didn't realize the workplace was going to be another version of high school.I hate when i see a job to apply for on CB or Monster and it says location White, NY.Then when you click apply the location is different????? In same state but hours away. It's happen to me a few times before.Anyone else.funny, last night I'm watching an old magnum pi show that i taped on a vhs tape. One of the commercials was the?cable?company?advertising?for a sales position to sell tv advertising. all they wanted was a 4 yr degree. i taped the show over 10 yrs ago.now this same cable company has a long?laundry?list of requirements for the same position. you need industry experience, proficient?computer?skills, etc (time warner cable.)Didn't Time Warner just get bought out by?Comcast??Everything is owned by something else now.?I remember when it was just Warner Cable and they had Bugs and Daffy on the side of the repair truck.?The techs were great then too, they could help you with your computer, but now, everything is so tight as far as what they can do. Sometimes, at night, they used to have great techs in support. Now, all you get is someone reading the same thing.I wish I had something to show for my hours upon hours of applying for jobs that I never hear back from. I'm 23 and received my Bachelor's degree last year. I don't have much experience. I understand that I need to gain some so I've been applying to countless internships, some of them even unpaid, and still hear nothing back. How do I get this experience when working for free even requires experience?! I'm trying to stay positive but it really is frustrating and demoralizing. How do you stand out when you're reduced to a single piece of paper that is probably just skimmed over or not even looked at..Every single one of us has had a tough time or bad situation with work. In life, you will trip and fall in the mud at some point. This is where you see true character. Do you pick yourself up, brush yourself off, keep walking, and make sure to step around the mud next time? Or do you stay on the ground complaining that you were pushed? The answer isn't did you trip on your own or did you have help. It's how you let that fall impact the way you carry yourself moving forward.People post all the time about stupid questions they hate getting in interviews. I have one that people hate but I absolutely love as a manager. "What would you change about your last job?" It's a good glimpse into people who are able to rationally look at a bad situation, vs. people who are victims and refuse to learn anything.I was on last night. When did they bump up gov salaries higher than their private sector counterparts for menial jobs like?janitor,laborer, etc. There was 10 dollar differences.You know Joe, that is what bothers me more than anything. Raises should only be given when the private sector is doing better. There is no way they can possibly understand what is going on out here unless they get to feel a little pain themselves. Of course that will never happen.Kudos to all of us that keep pushing forward, no matter the circumstances. At least it makes one appreciate what they have.there was a time years ago that the reason people went into govt was either because1. they just weren't smart enough to work in the private sectoror2. they really wanted to be a public servant and help the public out.now the reason is because it's a better gig than most private sector jobs.I agree. In some places, the?government?is the largest employer.?Now, it's a cushy ride to early retirement and a pension.Sadly, most seem to go in it because they are guaranteed raises, full benefits, and a full pension, regardless of how well they served in their job. It's worse than some of the unions you used to hear about.At the very least, limiting someone's time in office and eliminating the cushy pension may make some difference. But you and I will never see that happen.Last week I said,"Why work here if you don't want to help people?" The department head said, "Cause it pays good".My mother had a friend who use to work for the county. Her job was to place people into various?housing?projects, section 8, motels, etc.She once told her boss that she hadn't placed anyone in two years because there was nowhere to place them.Her boss said, "Which side of your desk do you want to be on?"Government?has been a really bizarre experience, especially mine. My situation as I've detailed elsewhere is incredibly dysfunctional. What I'm dealing with epitomizes every single bad thing you've heard of in regards to government workers, the unions and bad management. I can't tell the story but now that I know it, its mind-blowing. Also an incredibly learning experience in a really F'd up miserable way.So here is what happens. You show up, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed (we still use that term or does it show my age), ready to go and at the bottom. You see really obvious problems and changing them becomes a nightmare. As my boss says "there's always some m...........r in the way." So you beat your head against the wall until you either become one or quit because no one listens to you at the bottom. My fortuitous situation is that it's so bad it's obvious even to government.And because you start at the bottom all you run into are walls. Eventually, years later, you get a manager job, accumulate some power, but by then, all you want to do is survive until the finish line and cap your salary grade. So real change never happens and honestly, despite all the rhetoric, probably never will. Government isn't supposed to be entrepreneurial and nimble and given it's constituency base (everyone) that's pretty much impossible.I work in an area with a lot of really smart people. I have lots of advanced degrees running around because of the nature of my niche. I think people here, at least in regards to what I'm doing, want to get things done and move the ball. There's dead weight, a lot of it, but it's not all dead weight.It's more than hard to succumb to being sucked up by the machine.?People have to have a sense of purpose. If you are just stamping out a part on an?assembly?line, you want to know it's a quality part. It gets that base.Just giving is really just checking your brains at the door. Then you get that dead vacant eye stare. Walking dead is next.People, and even animals, are sentient beings, so it doesn't do us well to just go along with acting like sponges.My last job as a contractor at a?federal?facility would have been comical had it not ended with me being unemployed again. No one did any work unless specifically told to, they never did more than they were asked to do (and frequently did less), and they never did anything unless there was an SOP. No one ever questioned a superior,?contract?employees would risk being fired if they ever said anything negative to or about a civil service employee, and sucking up was explicitly demanded by managers. It took 5 months, multiple forms, and the approval of multiple managers to move adesktop?workstation from 1 cubicle to another and the commonly-used software packages that I asked for in June hadn't been installed when I left in February.I finished my?college?degree early and have been applying to jobs everywhere since before graduation. I am still sitting here three months later, pulling my hair out. I can't seem to find a job anywhere. The call backs quit coming. I am living in my parents' house and slowly going insane. I thought that having a degree was supposed to help you succeed...It's amazing how naive the?general?populace is. Doesn't anyone get it? The politicians and corporations are not going to "provide new jobs" or any jobs at all. They're outsourcing to foreign and automating jobs. They're using H1B workers and using illegals. I have seen plenty illegals in offices too. No Mexicans, but I've seen Latin American, Hispanic, Asian and European illegals being used as file clerks, temps, in F500 firm?food, mail,?cleaningdepartments. Yes, in NYC!! I saw this in the 90s when I was a temp myself in F500. Moreover, in vino veritas: in wine there is truth. Give drink and the truth will flow. At parties and while at bars, you overhear people talk. You talk to people yourself sitting there and they say..."my boyfriend works at....has immigration problems...or "my wife is___at__ and they don't want to make her permanent." Nepotism/cronysim is how these illegals get into the offices. Remember, these are jobs that we, the long term unemployed could easily do. But these corporate F500 get their welfare by employing illegals. Just like Walmart andn the rest. Then you wonder why you have to fill out Taleo and other ats e on, we all know they want to screen us out. That's the sole purpose. Otherwise, there is absolutely no reason why it should take someone qualified, educated and experienced 1-3 to find a job. 1-3 years it takes in a third world country to find employment. But here? It's insane, really. Age discrimination is another major reason, but that's a topic for another thread.Yes.That's why Putin is laughing at us.Europe thinks we're a joke as well. I wonder, if I go to Europe right now, with my American?education?and work experience, I would find a job faster I bet. It wouldn't pay much, but I would be employed I'm sure.But, yes. Obummer needs to stay away from Russo-Ukranian affairs. He has no dog in the fight. Let's focus on our own people here, won't we ?Many (perhaps most) people are primarily (often solely) concerned about only one thing: their own little world. It still absolutely shocks me when I come across someone who has little, if any knowledge of the "recession".On the so called "news" this morning, the claim was this "recession" will last for a total of about 10 years. The pundits are supposedly thinking the ue rate will dip below 6% come 2016 or so. I very seriously doubt they are taking the underemployed and unenfranchised into?account.From what my parents tell me, the Great Depression lasted about 10 years (yes, they were alive and lived through it). So what makes the Great Depression so much different than the Great Recession? The name of course.Another pet peeve is so many people finding it easier to worry about some other country than this one. Sure, lets send private donations to the latest cause overseas instead of keeping our money here and helping the people in need in THIS country...The people who don't have knowledge of the Great Recession are willfully ignorant.Americans are becoming more selfish, and IMHO this stems in part from our trend towards becoming a nation of haves and have-nots. Many people fear that doing anything besides looking out for themselves will increase their chance of becoming a have-not.I can say that being unemployed and uninsured and facing?financial?ruin have made me more compassionate. Having had people be less than kind, including some who know me well...I dont want to be like that. We have to help each otherPretty convinced anyone who would replace me wouldn't last three months due to the workload, the stress and the atmosphere. I'm trapped. And I just can't do anything about it. Every single day I walk out shaking my head, muttering to myself and thinking I can't take it much more, but there's no alternative. This just isn't the way to live life - being this disconsolate about your job.I have been there too, and my response IS NOT at least you have a job, because many people today work under the same stressful atmosphere. Short of staff while there are so many people unemployed who are dying to work for any organization. It is almost D--n if you are working or D--n if you are not. I will never look at our country the same again, because so many good people are suffering in this economy today and those who helped create or worsen the situation have very little idea on how much stress has been placed on the American people today. So many people from?collegegrads to mid level career to the undecided retiree are left in limbo and filled with anxiety about what their future will hold. This not only angers many of us, but it has left many depressed and feeling hopeless. Congratulations you have served your tax paying Americans well!!About two weeks ago I went in for another interview (telemarketing position) and was hired on the spot, and came in later that night for a four hour "training". It was really just the "trainer" making us read a script off the wall to see how we sounded, and him giving us all nicknames. The next day in the morning the other employees asked us how many new ones there were and we told them. They even told us that one guy went home in the middle of the shift and never came back. I was scared. The whole time in training we were told oh, "you never call the same person back" or "it's 10$/hr?and?full time?so you can't complain". As soon as we started, I knew it wasn't for me. We WERE calling the same people, we all sat at our "desks" and all that on them were the different scripts we were to read if the person on the phone asked if we were a certain company, and we were asked to sign a paper saying they could talk to us like we were in/on hell's kitchen (the tv show). I left at lunch and never looked back.I don't care if someone says "it's a job" "it pays more than minimum wage". If I am not happy at a job the first day, I never will be. I know it wouldn't be a good fit. Nothing could change my mind. It's not right for my to take someone's spot that probably be good at it and maybe possibly enjoy it (but I don't know how they do enjoy it).That's all I get out of it too.?I am a shell of what I used to be.?The managers pass the blame on, never have any accountability.?We have to do more and more in the same amount of time.?Sometimes, I think about going off the grid. If I had the money, I'd buy a plot of land and take a chance of making it that way. If I didn't then that's the way it goes.?It would be far more dignified than being a slave.?I think too many people just accept the economic slavery thing.?I don't and you don't.?Right now, there are no choices.?I am tired of the liars, the self-absorbed narcissists, the buck passers.?I am tired of having people over me talk talk talk talk about themselves. I am an employee and they think anyone below them is an ear for how wonderful their life is.I try to find a solution to this,and there are no jobs,even though I look constantly.?I don't do well accepting how lousy things are and am constantly looking for an answer.I found notes from 2004 when I was @ a local "one stop." Notes stated that there are 200+ applicants for every job. Same stat given recently (2013) @ job?counseling. I guess the economy has run on "fumes" for @ least a decade. NOW we compete w/people w/Master's degrees for part time, minimum wage,?entry level?jobs & people are even more likely to get suckered into those so called "college" degrees from so called "colleges" (local or on line) that all "teach" the same skills that very few (if any) companies respect.Unfair treatment of unemployed is a serious problem and I pose that the 19,000+ responses to this post is proof. I actually AM an?HR?professional seeking employment and even have my master's degree. I am livid with employers for blatant and open disparate treatment against the longer term unemployed who are highly qualified and who otherwise have good work history. This "discrimination" is largely due to excessive word of mouth recruiting. Also, with cutbacks in HR, there are a lot of non-HR personnel now responsible for recruiting function who do not understand the concepts (or care) of disparate treatment (processes that negatively impact a protected group)and other techniques such as avoiding recency bias in interviewing (being most impressed with the applicant they interviewed last) or the primary effect (first impressions stick) when making employment-based decisions. HR professionals are taught to not practice those biased behaviors. Example: I was on an interview with TNTP and went through a telephone screening for roughly 1/2 hour. The screening went extremely well, the interview seemed structured and professional and was full two-way?communication. The 2nd stage was a phone interview with the V/P of HR. Shockingly, at the onset of her interview the V/P stated the interview would only last 5 - 6 minutes - and she called an hour early. Needless to say, I was appalled - who can make a "decision" by only talking with someone for five minutes? To make matters worse, the focus was only what I was doing the past few years (my continuing?educationwas not good enough) and nothing whatsoever about my skills and abilities and education. I avoided delving into my?health?problems (I am now cured) but am insulted all the same. I am non sensationalizing myself and am applying for positions i KNOW I am highly qualified for. I am routinely and constantly being held back because of my recent lapse - there is no other explanation. It is nearly pany layoffs are not being tracked anymore.?bls dot govHow accurate is the unemployment rate? There is no follow-up on layoff workers except those who qualify for unemployment. So many people are not being counted.(From the Bureau of?Labor?Statistics website)?"Mass Layoffs?Data?Discontinued?On March 1, 2013, President Obama ordered into effect the across-the-board spending cuts (commonly referred to as sequestration) required by the Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act, as amended. Under the order, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) must cut its current budget by more than $30 million, 5 percent of the current 2013 appropriation, by September 30, 2013. In order to help achieve these savings and protect core programs, the BLS will eliminate two programs, including Mass Layoff Statistics, and all "measuring green jobs" products. This news release is the final publication of monthly mass layoff survey data."?Ohio Means Jobs just took over the local "one stop" that has had maybe five owners in the last ten years. On the internet, the website asks you a few dozen questions, including if you need help w/training,health care, etc. You answer, yes, but no one contacts you. I've talked & emailed w/a few nice people @ local unemployment. They remind me of the few teachers/professors that said encouraging words but couldn't actually help anyone. Same thing w/local "job club" counselors. You really are "on your own."Wow, we are pretty lucky here in Southern Ca. The workers and counselors here do their best to help you find work when they do have job leads. The state of Ca paid for my re-training for a new career as a paralegal because I fell under the "displaced worker when the market crashed back in 2007 (previously in the mortgage industry). But needless to say the school failed to find students jobs and the jobs we did find were all paying minimum wage. I already have 4 years of?legal?experience under my belt and was promised a higher salary before I entered the school. Unfortunately, I think it was the schools way to get another student and another state check.Now when I do go into the One stop offices, The counselors still do their best to assist but it's like Russian roulette with the leads and jobs they receive, sometimes they get them and sometimes they don't.The system has its up and downs and most of the jobs I find on my own, are pretty much fake or from 2-3 months ago so I pretty much know they have already been filled and just not taken down from the website.Don't come to Chicago. There are no jobs here. Trust me. That's across pretty much all sectors.I feel 90 percent of the reasons people aren't getting hired has nothing to do with experience, knowledge or these personality tests. The reason your not being hired is due to your age. Especially when they like your resume, have you drive all the way in to interview and you can tell as soon as they look at you, even though you've dressed perfectly the interview is over without a word being said. Age discrimination does exist and there is no one to police it.?hate that though, because I'm not a "Bolter" too old for that crap. LOL?I have ten good years left at least before I can retire but have been looking into it lately because I'm getting fed up with not being able to find anything out here besides minimum wage jobs and I just don't have the time or?health?to work 3 minimum jobs to get by, now I see why so many people have given up and started their own businesses.OMG, I was just telling my Ma that I see why so many people go intobusiness?for themselves. I think the jobs have gotten worse. They want you working 10 jobs in 1 for $9 and hour plus overtime if needed. I even see jobs like that including Saturday, just working you to death. And I don't mind working, but I'm tired of trying so hard for so little. What I'm seriously looking for is something with some decent growth potential where the 'upgrades' are good. Where I am, ain't nothing to go up too. I go back and forth from being scared as hell to feeling hopeful. I'm trying to keep my spirits up, but I've been here before, applying into black holes and only hearing back from scams and recruiters. It makes death feel like a welcome escape.I'm a bolter, lol, and I've been applying to everything, including part time and I know I don't want that. So I know if I got it I'd still be looking for full-time. But I know people that left my current job used it as a stepping stone, you could tell it was just a paycheck while they kept looking.I just received a similar e-mail and I was all excited because it was for an?administrative?position and I get to the end and it said located in California. I mean if I did have to relocate I would, just not to California (no offense to anyone who lives there)No offense taken. It's nice here in CA but it's getting to the point that only the Rich are going to be left living here. Rent is too high, in the "so so " areas for a studio apt rent starts at $1450. Entrance into Disneyland is now $185 per person and the theme should be called "Most Expensive Place on Earth".The amount of student loan debt these days is well into the trillions of $$. Earlier this week, Obama was talking about capping the payback of these loans to 20% of a persons salary.Well, at this point of time, there are some "issues" with that line of thought for me. One, many (most) jobs being created are part time, low pay, no benefits. I.E., not enough money pay for?food, rent, gas, car, etc (unless one lives with 20 other people in a small?apartment), let alone paying back a student loan for the next 50 years.I have heard of people in their 50s who are still trying to pay off student loans. They simply can't for lack of decent jobs.What we need first are jobs. Not part time retail. Good paying,?full timejobs. Like we used to have. The last gov't report I saw on tv claimed that the majority of jobs being created are of the restaurant/ part time Target/WalMart type.Those of us who have been/ were unemployed for extended periods of time have seen job ads such as for a secretarial position..... requiring a 4 year?college?degree and paying $10/ hour or less. Nothing more than a weeding tool.This is actually a myth. What you really need are more jobs not more?education.I agree to that to an extent. Education may help you to get to the next level in your career, but that's assuming you have a career. Some careers may require you to have a Masters (eg.?college?professors, school advisers). However, too much education may lead you to being overqualified for most jobs because you may receive too little pay for your education, you may leave too soon due to boredom, or some other excellent reason for not getting hired.We definitely do need more jobs....reasonable jobs! (ie. not this 3-in-1 job with min wage BS)It's why I dread the idea of another staffing agency. I keep thinking about it, but know in the end it will be just another waste of time and?energy. I've been there multiple times before. It's just upsetting that it's not about actually getting you a job. I think that's the real reason I don't go back. When you need a job and are hurting emotionally and financially and most of these places and people play around with you taking you on a roller coaster ride, it makes you wanna kill somebody.Agencies are almost always a waste of time. It's hard to see how they actually remain in?business?since it appears they only ever post fake job ads and then bring people in to "sign up" and then start the whole cycle over again. Surely they must get some people jobs at some point, and it must be pretty lucrative since they're wasting all this time on the merry go round of nothing which is fake ads, "interviews" and then empty promises to call you.With that said, I just put in something with an agency, but I specifically told them in my letter to only call me if the job was legitimate. Ha. Sure.To be honest, you're not the only one. It took me 1.5 years to finally get noticed from reasonable companies after graduating from graduate school. What I mean is that during the first year out, I've gotten offers to write solutions to mathematics books for $8/problem (and the problem took easily 2-3 hours) or the unpaid?internship. So, I felt like I was worth < min wage.I've also became super stressed and depressed that I would have to fake being happy or content whenever I am with friends or family (especially when they talked/complained about work). When I did be myself, well, I haven't heard back from a friend of 5 years...he sort of went silent on me.What I have noticed is that, MANY people (family, friends, etc) don't understand what we're going through and they don't want to understand. MANY people have never been in our position. And the biggest challenge I face is to not lash out at anyone for being st00pidly ignorant of the circumstance.It is a tough world out there. And, from this experience, I've learned to be patient, be understanding, and be empathetic to others in a similar (or other crazy) circumstance.We will get over this hump :)Yes we will get over this hump for sure.?I am more compassionate towards the homeless, actually I have always been compassionate towards others who have been less fortunate, so I guess I'm blessed in that since. It felt so good buying lunch for two homeless guys today, the one guy looked so joyful and got teary eyed.?I know we will all be blessed with employment soon, you just have to stay positive and keep the faith. :)No worries, I'm a licensed Paralegal now, so like everyone else here, I'm trying to switch careers from mortgage to real estate?law. :)?Big mistake. I see they are still selling the whole paralegal industry supposedly growing by leaps and bounds. That's so false. The jobs are not there. And pay has stagnated or even contracted. There's no money or future in this field.I'm in it because I was a sucker who bought into it years ago before things really got bad. The only way I'd go this way is if I were some schmuck off the street or perhaps working at the local coffee shop and the local plantation law firm decided to hire me in this capacity. You know, like at my office.?I just got a rejection email for a receptionist position...are you kidding me?Oh what would you all do about this situation? Saw an ad and it said to contact so-and-so at this # so I did that and got her voice mail. I left a message and that was 24 hours ago! I am trying to remain strong and positive, but inside I feel like crying. But on an up note I am getting real good at interviews...lolThat's a good thing, because at least it means you are getting interviews and that is always good. That's great actually! I know I'm saying that because I'm not even getting that and interviews don't mean much without a job offer, but I can't even get to that step.Employers want so much for so little now and they all want TONS of EXPERIENCE, even for little nothing positions. 5+ years experience and a B.A. to answer phones, or type some letters and send a fax. Or yes, even scrub toilets. It's a straight up joke. It's either that or I see job duties that go on for 4 pages for $10 an hour. Come on.In California, Nevada and Texas if you don't speak Spanish, they won't hire you.My daughter says in?college?Chineseand Spanish are the most popular languages now. Nobody is taking?German?orFrench?anymore.Especially true in San Francisco! You MUST speak either Mandarin Chinese OR Spanish to get any sort of job at all. Silly me---I Minored in German in college. Took German so I could have fun traveling thru Europe. Had fun in Europe, but no job now. My German is quite good, but no one's interested in that language. All Germans speak better English than my German, anyway.I have a native Calif-born friend who just happens to have some Spanish ancestry. She got hired as a teacher based solely on her Spanish last name! She has no teaching credential, either. Public shcools are desperate for teachers who speak Spanish. When my friend got there, school assumed who was fluent in Spanish. Lucky for friend, she had taken 3 yrs. Spanish in high school! Still, it was a real struggle for her to try to converse in Spanish w/ the kids.he rules for creating your Killer Resume change daily. Maybe that is why you can go into any?library?and buy a Resume book for a buck off their Discard pile. As I have said, the thing is basically a holdover from the past today.The Objective Statement is out. Too silly sounding. Use a Summary of Qualifications statement instead.References available upon request is out. That is understood. DO NOT LIST your references on your resume.Don't go back farther than 10 years. Its probably irrelevant and it can date you.Don't put your street address on your resume and then plaster it on job boards all over town. You run the risk of Identity Theft.?City?and State if fine.You can throw away your resume paper with the matching envelopes.Take all resume advice with a grain of salt.Very true. For ex., it would be horrible to work in pharmacy these days. Pharms. are overworked, pharm techs are underpaid. I spend lots of time in pharmacies; see what it's like. Person after person demanding to know why THEIR meds are not ready/not in stock. Some w/ very nasty entitled attitudes.I get so frustrated, too. But I see how overworked everyone at pharmacy is, so I always try to be nice. Even when I call week in advance and they promise meds will be ready. Get there--NO meds! Tell me to come back next week. 'When?' Don't know. 'Will you call me?' They say 'yes', but rarely call. It's ALL up to the 'patient'. Keep calling to remind pharm. to order meds. Results in multiple visits to pharmacy every month; have to wait over an hour each visit. Don't know how I'd ever be able to do THAT and keep a job.exactly, also how no stone is left unturned to make sure you DON'T get benefits when you most need them. This is what isdriving?me mad. It's not like it's 8 grand a week. The benefits are barely enough to live on. But I need them now.Yeah,?insurance?is one thing you pay for, but they don't always have to give us anything unless they want to.?If there were less people than jobs, if we had more?business?in the US, things would be in our favor. Why people think they have to import more workers, esp in IT, is beyond me. Remember when Bush said we didn't have enough talent in the US in IT? Then he favors importing people from 3rd world nations. Makes no sense, we are more developed and tech nation.The primary trouble is not cover letters or resumes. It is the shortage of jobs. Been getting progressively worse since 2008 which was close to the beginning of "the great recession".....Yes, the?government?says we are totally recovered. So much for their words, I don't see any real businesses springing up and?hiring?tons of people at all. Since we don't make anything in the US anymore, everything else is affected too.?Glad you were able to stay employed, that must have been really tough...Well, it worked until 2008. Found myself out of work for basically 6 years. Just started this job a couple months ago.Many of the jobs being created from what I see are part time retail and?food service. People working like that still need to be on things like?food?stamps,energy?assistance, etc to even break even.?We need?full time?decent paying jobs.Supposedly, MD's UE rate is floating around 6.5%. I don't believe it.I see the same too. Mostly low end service sector jobs, call centers, cheap sales.?Yes, the full time-livable wage-benefited jobs are hard to find.?I don't know anyone who get raises or cost of living increases.I think it's far worse out there than being reported, too.?I think the Under-employment rate is about 50%. Most people I know are underemployed, low paid, experience terrible turnover rates, aren't working in their fields, and have no room advancement.?Unemployment, I'd say is close to 25% in some areas.Glad you are working.I'm glad to be working as well, thanks.Have you also noticed that some major companies are reporting record profits to wall street, yet can't give our a raise that's worth anything?A few years ago, a large box store was blasting all over tv and the entrances to their stores how they were giving away 2 Million each and every week to the local?community. My first thought was "why not give away 1/4 of that and put the rest towards the pay and benefits of their underpaid part time staff?"Of course the answer was likely along the lines of tax breaks for charitable giving.... instead of treating their workers something like human......I agree. It was all PR and tax breaks for them, if they really were doing it. They just underpay staff because there is always someone who will work the job.?I wonder how badly this will digress. How bad will things get??Right now, so many jobs don't have benefits or any raises, and the pay is so low!The employment problem is a systemic failure. You balk at people for not keeping up their skills. Yet, companies once supplied training. Now, they want people to show up with mad skills, even though?education?is astronomically expensive. Higher Education/Infrastructure improvements, etc. were was once funded by taxes. We are at the point where taxes for the top percent have been regualrly evaded for the past 20 years - by the richest corporations. They take their work abroad where they can pee on the?landscape?and sh-t on the people.America was what it was because it didn't allow the richest people to steal from the middle class. Have you ever wondered why poor countries are so poor???? BECAUSE there aren't Democratic laws to prevent abuse. So, now our governement has been bought and sold - And you are still blaming hardworking Americans!!!???? Do you not realize that American workers have had fewer days off than other industrialized nation? AND family life has been thrown to hell by work demands. Why are we so surprised that mass shootings, suicides, teenage pregnancies are out of control???So, MyCon, you are trying to crack some whip to make them work harder?I have made things work on VERY little pay. 6 or 7 years ago I started this job making less than 20k.People making 60k + would drown themselves on my pay. All these years later I feel like nothing has changed much, pay is still crap but expectations continue to go up (experience and?education?must be out of this world) Anyone making that kind of money coming down to a minimum wage job wouldn't be able to handle it. I guess that's the one perk I have, I'm used to being poor so getting another low paying job won't be a stretch for me, lol. Oh God.I commend you for being able to live on a low salary and still at home with your mom, You have some good points but you have to consider in different states the cost of living is beyond minimum wage and minimum wage is not a living salary.In Southern California the rent for a studio apt is $1800 a month and that's in a "so so area". If your making minimum wage and along with having a car note, car?insurance, there is no way you can live on that low of an income, just not possible.?Even renting a room here is expensive but people do what they have to do to survive aka working 3-4 minimum wage jobs.Honestly, its hard going from 55K - 65K a year to 20 K, its very insane and very depressing. My education and experience don't seem to matter anymore and I have reached a point of going from making 28.97 an hour down to 15 an hour and even 15 is a stretch. For those who have never had a good salary 55k & up, you just wouldn't understand what it's like mentally, emotionally, especially going on job interviews and constantly getting low balled by employers on salary.That's so true about the cost of living. I know about some states. Chicago is not cheap either. I would need section 8 if I could get it. I live at home, but I was helping with rent while I was working. it's also a family ownedapartment?building. I know that if I had to get an apartment my whole check would go to rent. I would have nothing left. I wouldn't make it. It would only work if I had zero debt. I don't have a car or kids, but I'd still be struggling. Heck, a monthly bus pass is even $100!I know we talk about taking "anything" and people expecting us to not be picky and take minimum wage, but in a way that would almost be like not having a job at all. I know not literally, but I have been applying to part time jobs too and I saw one that was only 4 hours a day and I figured out the pay would be about $480 for 2 weeks. It would be something, but I would still stay stuck. Sometimes I don't know what to do.Be careful with part time, unemployment deducts from whatever you make and gives you the difference, at least that's what they do here in California.?My sister took a part time commission only job and literally had to fight for unemployment. The company she worked for only paid them once a month and in one month she made $375. I helped her win her case, but I swear EDD workers and the system can be evil, just know what your getting into with part time work and the consequences that may come with it, don't get me wrong, I'm just saying with the Govnmnt system they pretty much Jack up your money. LOL :)It's PLANNED disemployment (unemployment + underemployment + people who've given up), it's bipartisan, it's been going on the past 35-40 years, but accelerated since the banksters got their $23 trillion dollar bailout.Planned disemployment, as planned by "both" parties, the bankster elite, and companies in?general?that prefer to mimic banks (i.e., firms make their profits through?financial?engineering?- stock buybacks, furious mergers and acquisitions of hollowed out companies, etc. - instead of the actual provision of goods and services). Planned disemployment has several features to the bankster/corporate elite:(1) It pushes everyone's wages down - if you're in constant fear of being laid off or have been permanently unemployed, you'll work for almost nothing. This is true up and down the economic ladder, so long as your job involves a pay check.(2) It makes workers docile, pliant, and skittish. If you're lucky enough to befull time?(increasingly lucky, since the "recovery" has only seen a proliferation of part-time/temp work), you're probably exempt. If you're not pulling your weight or "fitting in" with 80-hr?work week and demoralizing treatment, you're probably not a "good fit" with a proper "work-life balance."(3) It justifies an HR system that creates the excuses to freeze?hiring?and terminate existing workers. They're like the?clerical?class of the Middle Ages that served to insulate the lords and nobility. The actual work involved isn't that much, so they spend most of their time on LinkedIn scolding us to develop a brand and to get experience without actually having a job....4) It serves as a convenient excuse to dismantle Social Security due to lack of revenue (funny how we can print money for banksters, but we have to tax or borrow for things that help the bottom 99.9%). Good cop Obama was hired by his bros at Goldman Sachs to privatize the program.(5) It justifies a police state. "More crime" which naturally results from a beleaguered, jobless people will justify private military firms surveilling and policing us.(6) It justifies a the?education-industrial?complex wherein the?HR?people tell us to retrain, which conveniently allows the banksters to collect rents viagovernment-back cash streams and which are then, in turn, extracted from people who continue to disemployed.(7) It shifts people into Obamacare where individuals have to buy junk *private* (so it's not socialism)?insurance?that doesn't actually cover them when they need it.Many of the online jobs are not real.?It's an attempt to look competitive and selectively find talent when and if they need it.?I asked one big company why they had so many jobs out there and never was contacted even once for the zillion times I had applied. I was told there were no jobs, they just put feelers out for resumes. Sort of confirming what I already suspected.Right now, the only peoplehiring?are jobs with high turnovers with wages from 8.50 to 10 an hour and mean bosses that expect more for lessYes. Manufacturing has been sent overseas and to Mexico, so now, everything is cheap service sector jobs.?People think manufacturing is all?factory?jobs but its not.?They were happy to get rid of the unions, so this is what they can deal with now. The jobs no one wants, low low pay, no panies just go and find cheaper and cheaper?labor. Maybe someday they won't even pay anyone. There are too many people willing to go along with this.Every Sunday night the reality sets in."Tomorrow morning, I have no job to go to."?I have been unemployed before, but never in my life have I experienced such an exhausting search for employment.?I get to the point where I take it personally. "Maybe it's just me."Hi Leeann66,I feel the same way! I'm sure many others also do. Our talents are being wasted searching, applying or hoping for that call or invitation to an interview &/or job offer.Now, I'm starting get these?insurance?types of company's or car dealerships offering opportunities. There was a time that I would never consider this types of jobs but the longer being unemployed, the more attractive they're getting. I think this is where they get half their sales force - From individuals who can't get a job anywhere else.At least that's how I feel.People are not getting jobs because there are no jobs. Their experience is just fine. Their schooling and credentials are fine.?They dotted their i's and crossed their t's just fine.?They did all the right things on interviews and more.?They are polite and honest, and more.?John was right.There are jobs, just low paying onesIf you have a?college?degree, they won't even talk to you.?You can't survive on those jobs anyway.?Most won't even pay the rent.A college degree isn't a guarantee to a future anymore. It's sad to say.I know. I take inspiration from people like Steve jobs, J.k. Rowling and Stephen king. The real money is in what you do in your spare time. Create and sell. I plan to sell patents while working at crappy jobs. Planning with my mate. You have to be smart and semi self employed in this worldYou know you’ve been unemployed too long when you are having an out of money experience.You know you’ve been unemployed too long when your reality check bounces.You know you’ve been unemployed too long when you try to make a comeback but you haven’t been anywhere.You know you’ve been unemployed too long when the job interviewer tells you that there’s an opening for you and it’s called the door.You know you’ve been unemployed too long when you bring your dog to a job interview.I know they are building a gigantic shopping area near my town. The local media points out all the great job opportunities that will be available. Yes there will be many....part time minimum wage jobs. Which I would take at this point if I could get one. I do wonder where people will get the money to shop in this nice new place. Everyones broke!Places like that do bring jobs, but they are not jobs for everyone. Some people can live just fine on those salaries. Most may be young, living at home, first time jobs, etc. Over the years once you gain skills, schooling, experience you don't want to go back to selling nachos or folding t-shirts. Nothing against those jobs, but when you know you have skills for something better paying, that's what you want.And how do you go back to that? You used to make 60k plus now applying for a movie usher job. What do you say? "Oh, I just want to get back to my love of movies" Ugh.A day after they can someone down at the Gulag they send out an email to all warning people to be busy working or else. They also have the gall in the same email to tell all employees they want them out looking for newbusiness?for them. Huh? Not one word about what?compensation?would even be involved if business is brought in. Let me understand, you give me a C-Note or something to get business, and then you profit on all the work going forward? These people are out of their minds.In other better news, I got a call back today from the thing I went on on Friday which I thought I had no chance at. They want to talk to me. I assume an offer is forthcoming. I'll have to see what they say. There are several things in play on this thing: salary, a commute, etc. I thought I blew the interview. I'm shocked.Hey, man, you have to do what you have to do. You have to get out of the house and work. If you have to take a job there, then that's what you have to do. I worked a job on the graveyard shift that really wore me down, but I did it because I had to. I'm convinced having that job plug the gap got me my current job, which will get me my next job.Hey, Chipotle isn't too bad?food?wise. Free lunch? That would work.Seems like 90% of the job ads mention a "fast-paced environment." I always figure that they don't know the half of it... I've always worked to deadlines.That is code for you are applying for a job that use to be done by three people before the last layoff. I have been there and it sucks.It's not just a job when you're in school. I'll have to face job my school schedule if i get the job. That's 6 classes.Good work on scoring a new job. Let's hope your employer is respectful of your school hours!!!Too many employers are D-ckwads over the flexibility in hours.You hear a certain unnamed political population in the US blabbering over "the out-of-work population's unwillingness to work". Yet, when one tries to patch together a part time job with another part time job to achieve a living wage OR part time work with?college?work, the demands prohibit having a successful life.Many employers paying their scruffy minimum wage salaries have ludicrous demands on employees' time.No job is permanent anymore.Yup! After job searching almost every single day 24/7 for almost 2 years - I landed a temp job earning 1/3 of what I used to earn. The company was a mess as they just had 4 layoffs and everyone left accepted a cut in salary and in most cases a demotion. For a year I kept searching in my off hours for a permanent job but I couldn't find one. In Dec the company told me they were ending my?contract. One month later all of the people I worked with were laid off. Yes, the ones who accepted pay cuts and demotions. This is in the Northeast - supposedly one of the areas with a low unemployment rate.More education will only work if there are real jobs that need people.?People assume they aren't finding jobs because they aren't educated enough or have more skills.?It's a different world. Too many people and not enough jobs. Not enough livable wage jobs with benefits either.?I seriously doubt anyone on this site is not getting jobs because of their skills or education. It's because there are no jobs.?I feel so behind in life.. I graduated?college?exactly a year ago on this day, but I'm still here. I see all these people on fb getting promoted and stuff, but I'm still here looking for a job. I just want to shoot myself!!!!?xboxer,Hey Man - You are the one acting like there are no jobs.Everyone here that's physically able to get a job can get "a job"!!!That's a fact -It only took me 6 years, but yes, I did get a job. I don't count the 6 months in a warehouse which I could not physically handle.And I personally do know other people who "act like there are no jobs" because they simply can not get considered for any of the 100s and sometimes thousands they have applied to. Yes, in their area of experience.I really wish I had kept a count of the # of jobs I have applied to. It must be hundreds , perhaps ....thousands. although after i knew the number, what would i do then ? LOL. I really cannot believe the situation in this country right now. Meanwhile the govt sends millions all over the world.....at some point all this will of course crash. Our economy will crash. I am trying to prepare for that (not in the sense of being a fanatic about it...but just being informed and thinking through on my options and preparing) We shall see.There was a guy who used to come around these forums who used the name of Nick (from the Boston area of Mass initially) who was well in to the multiple hundreds of jobs applied to. I forget exactly how many and I don't feel like searching at the moment. Unfortunately, I have heard too many stories along those lines.Today it seems like employers can pick and choose and that seems to be exactly what they are doing. They tell people that their?credit?report is not so good... what does that have to do with anything? As long as you've never stolen anything from an employer, that is all that they should be concerned with. In addition, you need to be bi-lingual... why? They are just making up excuses to not hire people. And don't be over 50, I'm not even going there.?But we all have to stay positive and just keep going!I went thru my emails and counted all the confirmations/rejections, put them into a nice little excel sheet...since April 2013 I've applied for just over 400 jobs (and I know the number is higher because with many submittals I received no email confirmation or rejection).I went thru my emails and counted all the confirmations/rejections, put them into a nice little excel sheet...since April 2013 I've applied for just over 400 jobs (and I know the number is higher because with many submittals I received no email confirmation or rejection).Of course, there are and always people who will be happy to tell you that it's your resume or cover letter that isn't allowing you to get the interview rather than the more obvious answer.... (where are the jobs for the rest of us)Today it seems like employers can pick and choose and that seems to be exactly what they are doing. They tell people that their?credit?report is not so good... what does that have to do with anything? As long as you've never stolen anything from an employer, that is all that they should be concerned with. In addition, you need to be bi-lingual... why? They are just making up excuses to not hire people. And don't be over 50, I'm not even going there.?But we all have to stay positive and just keep going!So true, I think they want to make it as difficult as possible. And that's even before you apply. I saw one ad yesterday, the first words were a position for a recent?college?grad, with zero to 1 year of office experience, then the duties were just about running the office. It sounded like of responsibility for someone fresh from school or no experience, then they wanted your college transcripts and copies of your SAT/ACT scores and they had to be a certain score, on top of a resume, cover letter. And they wouldn't accept an application without it. That was ridiculous to me.Now it's not enough to be a perfect employee, you have to be a perfect student, perfect citizen, have a perfect credit score, perfect work background, have a perfect life. Just say that. "Imperfect lives need not apply".sorry i keep accidentally posting before i'm done typing. I have said this before, its worth repeating. My self worth isnt bound up in whether or not I have a job. I would like a job, but it doesnt affect my self esteem either way. We are living in hard times, and things have changed a lot. This is a false notion, that we ARE our jobs. A job is nice yes, but I am not my job.If you seek to become adept in your field regardless of the school, your talents will eventually make a way for you. (Proverbs 22:29)For me, its not about getting a job. I have more subtle plans. I want to learn a lot in my field (software?development)Then its a moot point. Success is its own reward.Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison, Mark Zuckerberg, Michael Dell, etc., are all?college?dropouts. Nobody cares what college they went to or dropped out from.This is true. But the?education?system couldn't stand the fact that these guys accomplished what they did, without degrees. Sure, they could have earned a degree, no doubt about that.?But they were given those "honorary degrees" by various schools, as if they weren't complete without a degree.?It's just more empty posturing.I had a?college?professor actually say that. He said something like "The most brilliant minds are now tinkering away in bedrooms and garages and coming up with the next big thing. The rest of you are in my class". LOL!Extremely sucessful people in civiled societies always tend to make up a minority. The number of high paying jobs has to be a minority in order for most economies to function. the prosperity of the 1950s, which is unprecedented, I think, in recent history, started breaking down in the late 1960s with high inflation PRIOR to the 1970s oil shocks. A college degree has less to do with the success that contributes to one obtaining a high-paying job than socioeconomic advantage and innate cognitive ability. Bill Gates was born into Old Money. Gates wasn't born rich but he was very far from being poor. Steve Jobs was born into an upper middle class household not) or exceptional cognitive abilities, as with the case of Larry Ellison. College, traditionally allowed the wealthy and the bright to mingle. If one doesn't have money or has some exceptional cognitive ability, or isn't exceptional in some other way, college will not lead to a high paying job.Education?or no education, Gates was smart enough to see an opportunity when he did. He was smart enough to take advantage of?IBM?and get control of the software when they didn't realize the potential.?I don't think either Gates or Jobs was mingling with rich people. Jobs had to find an investor. He had the luck of having the technical abilities of Wozniak. But he was smart enough to define his own niche in thecomputer?world.?I agree with your last statement. College now, is like a high school diploma, unless it's a very difficult degree not many can do. Who you know trumps any degree. It's rather baffling why companies want to do this kind of staffing though. Just because someone knows someone doesn't mean they will do a good job. In fact, it's usually the opposite. So why DOES American?business?favor?hiring?the managers' friends and families? If I had a business, I would want to hire the best and brightest, not some manager's boyfriend.The gap in employment must make the employer feel very nervous abouthiring?the person. After selling and overselling yourself in phone screens (which is the 2014 way to go for the interviewers), it seems the employer thinks something is wrong with the "great" candidate since no one else has snapped the person up already. They will ask questions to try to figure if you are a problem employee or if you have other distractors that will hinder you from jumping through hoops."If you can't fly, then run. If you can't run, then walk. If you can't walk, then crawl. But whatever you do, keep moving" MLK."A frustrating interview", An ExcerptINTERVIEWER: ...and we have part-time seasonal openings with a training class coming up. The training would be full-time.?INTERVIEWEE: (Thinks: the ad said there were part-time seasonal job openings... in every part-time seasonal job I've had in the past, the hours have been flexible. This is sounding slightly different than the job ad.)?INTERIEWER: Do you have any schedule conflicts in the upcoming months that would prevent you from being here??INTERVIEWEE: (thinks, of course, I have another part-time job- guess you didn't see my resume that said I have a part-time job, did you?) Yes.. (explains availability)-?INTERVIEWER: (after several minutes) Well, this is a part-time job, and you would need to be available six days a week, and it's 18-24 hours a week, so we don't have a position for you.What does it take to get a job to make some extra money these days? A part-time job that requires 6 DAY PER WEEK AVAILABILITY- seriously?Don't laugh. I had a very similar interview for the position of a part-timebank teller.Very few of these so call flexible part-time jobs are actually flexible. What they actually mean is they need you to be flexible for them whenever they need a person. Even if you're all that it seems then they're looking for something more or something else to disqualify you.IMO, the worst part about this is that the interviewer didn't read your resume. Whether they're stupid or just lazy, it's a sad example of how screwed up things are today that complete idiots who aren't even qualified to read a resume are the ones in charge of?hiring...I'm curious as to what the age of the interviewer was, as my latest gripe has to do with "managers" of today -- the only qualification is to be 24 years old and have a hot supermodel-style pic on their StinkedIn page...If you're not a people person... good luck. I honestly don't know what jobs exist that don't involve heavy amounts of people interaction. Lots of them are?customer service/?food service/ working with people in retail all day.And as for meeting employer's "requirements"... yeah, it seems like they're looking for Willy Wonka's golden ticket - if you don't have exactly what it is you want - or if you don't know somebody who can put in a good word for you - you're out of luck.I got put down by my mom and daughter today. My mom is trying to give job hunting advice from the 70's. She has no clue how hard it is. She landed this great?governmentjob in 1976 and before that a part-time job as a teen. My daughter said no wonder you cant get a job, your acting crazy. I don't even want to be around people anymore, they are all insensitive. I don't even have one decent person in my life right now to talk to. I've been crying for the last 3 hours and don't know how I am going to cope. I can't take anymore personal attacks right now.I'm sorry you are not getting the support you deserve. It's true that people that haven't been unemployed in these last several years don't know how much things have changed. I have a sister that can't believe I'm really trying to find a job. Then again she thinks I don't really need an income.I just don't want you to give up all hope that life won't turn around for you. Sometimes we can only get through one hour at a time and forget the rest. Many others here do understand what you are going through!I also think people have their own idea of what unemployed people should be doing. Like we are supposed to always be job searching, never enjoying one minute and be ready to pounce on anything put in front of us. "They're?hiring?to hand scrub the sidewalks for $8 an hour!" and we are supposed to go running with resume in hand. Not saying that jobs like that aren't honest work, but I feel that people expect me to act a certain way and when I don't I"m not serious or making an effort.Like the last time I was out of work, I was on the?computer?10 hours a day and my Ma got nasty that I spend all my time on the computer, when I got nasty back that I was job searching she looked very guilty. I wasn't on there playing Call of Duty, I was actually working. They don't get it.?HR?people really are bordering on psychotic in their behavior. I had one person call me for a second interview five minutes before I had an appointment. I politely apologized, explained that I had an appointment and asked if I could call back later that day. He then gave me the number of someone else in HR. I got voicemail every time, left two messages, nothing. I tried calling the number he had called from and it would disconnect after several rings. Finally I got a rejection email several weeks later from an?intern?at the company.Now did he decide "forget you" because I couldn't take his call at that exact moment at 8am? As if he was some king sitting on a throne? We have lives. That just seems insane to me that he would take so much offense that I couldn't take his call right at that exact moment.They say jump, and we are suppose to say how high. Jobs are scarce and they know it. They can treat us any way they want.Too bad we can't turn the table any time soon. With cheap and illegallabor?pouring into our borders, what chance do we have of getting any respect?Is it the same in Canada? I have considered going there. I can't keep going without affordable?health care.I am filled with so much rage today. I thought yesterday was bad but nothing like today. My fuse it short and I feel ready to explode anytime. I warned everyone around me to BACK OFF and leave me alone right now(after yesterdays comments towards me). I wonder if I am going insane from being unemployed. It might just be severe depression at this point, I wonder if anyone else gets like this too, or is it just me?It sounds like people make equal or way less than what they used to make a decade ago but the cost of living is so much higher nowadays. And yet, the stock market is skyrocketing making the rich people richer while annihilating the Middle class by cutting wages, outsourcing, downsizing, overworking/underpaying, etc. Do we even have a solution or is this just a slow death? An unavoidable downward spiral? Hate to sound pessimistic but I don't see things improving, ever.Mark (Levin) do some research on the youth in America yes they should be angry, as we have all been sold out by these low life politicians. But I think they are turning to Bernie not because they think they are entitled but because they are defeated. Idk if it was the schools (all schools including colleges) that made them believe the American Dream is dead and they have no choice but to look to the government. I can only speak of my child (22) and what I hear from their group. They are working and going to school and they feel that they will not be able to get a job. Most work in service jobs and are not getting any experience to get a job in their field (and they are not getting liberal arts degrees). Not to be a conspiracy theorists but it amazes me that they don't think they can make it. Trust me I wasn't easy on my child and work was rewarded. It blew my mind and made me sad when they expressed their non belief in the American Dream.I'm glad to be working but the last years of my career hasn't been a happy one unfortunately. I just want to be to one day look forward to get up in the morning and work. It's out there. I just have to find it some how and grab it. Still on my 90 days trial and I'm finding out how crazy this work environment is.Problem is sometimes you discover that ALL work environments in a specific field are "crazy." What to do? Continue where you can identify the craziness or experience a different brand of the same thing? Wish schools were more honest about work environments as well as teaching/training! Of course, it's in a school's best interest to keep you paying tuition.Anyone feel absolutely no motivation to look for work? Do you ever question what the point is after looking at a job posting and thinking theres no way you'd ever get it b/c you don't fit the qualifications 100%?This is me right now. I can't bring myself to send out any applications. I haven't sent one out in months.I think i've internalized all this stuff (employers want someone whose done the exact job before, they won't hire me b/c theres 100's of people who have already applied etc).Its a bad spot to be in, but I just can't bring myself to send anything out.Anyone feel like this?I do, definitely. I'm tired of interviews, I'm ready for some offers to come in. Not ONE! It gets worse when I find less and less things I'm qualified for and then the fear sets in because if I'm not applying, then no one can call, and I will never find a job and that endless circle continues. I have come across jobs where I won't have every job requirement, but will start the process and if the application is to long or to much crap to type out, I just forget it because I know I wouldn't get it anyway. In those cases sometimes I feel good about just dropping it because it raises my blood pressure to deal with an application for an hour when it's pointless to start with.This past week and a half I have no motivation. I have a friend who seems to be doing something job related all day everyday, it makes me feel like s##t that I'm not doing that. Sometimes I just get burnt out. I'm just so tired of interviews and no offers. I used to tell people it was great that you are getting interviews, but now I see how that means nothing anymore. An interview with no offer is even more depressing. All that hope, preparation, stress, worry, finger crossing, fake smiling, and it all ends with nothing. So painful.I saw an ad for an?admin?where they said they want you to be able to work "at the speed of light" and live in the world ofcomputer?/keyboard short cuts. This scares me and is what the job world is coming to. I mean, to advertise they want some lightening fast work mule is depressing to me. This job is saying they want to pile on the work and want you to work super fast and get as much done as possible. I was stressed just reading the ad.?I can't imagine what that work environment is like. I don't want to work anywhere that expects "speed of light " results. To much pressure and stress in a "get it done!" Atmosphere.Unfortunately the "speed of light" can be a disaster. Especially in thecreative?field. It's hard to get any creativity with everyone rushing you. I'm currently working at a company where everything is crazy, rush, rush. And muck-ups have happened. I've worked in fast paced environments but it seems like the work environment is getting worse where everyone wants you work 100mph!Problem is sometimes you discover that ALL work environments in a specific field are "crazy." What to do? Continue where you can identify the craziness or experience a different brand of the same thing? Wish schools were more honest about work environments as well as teaching/training! Of course, it's in a school's best interest to keep you paying tuition.From time to time I regret going to?college. I would have been better off not going to school or got a?community?college. But yes of all the work environments I have tried last year and earlier this year, insanity!People want to keep up the illusion that the economy still has good jobs available. The reality of the world today is millions of people are joining the ranks of the long term unemployed.business/economy/long-term-unemployed-struggle-to-find--and-keep--jobs/2014/04/18/134c48f6-c4ad-11e3-bcec-b71ee10e9bc3_story.htmlI argue this with people all the time. So many think it's something they are or aren't doing right. They think they didn't wear the right color shoes on an interview or their degree isn't from the right school.?You see posts on Indeed forums with people wringing their hands over the details when so many jobs posted aren't even real.?When places need people they just don't play games with them. Overpopulation, increasing influx of foreigners, and loss of industry in America are contributing to more and more job loss. The problem is so big, you see the news turn a blind eye and report that the economy is improving or job losses are down.So one of my friends interviewed for a job 2 weeks ago that he had applied to back in February. Today he saw the job listing re-posted on the company's website. This s**t is becoming too common. Why do companies waste our time if there have no intention of?hiring?us?Because there is no real job. They just want to see if they can get someone cheaper than they have now.My find for the day:A job ad that lists 26 Responsibilities. Half of the Responsibilities include sub-Responsibilities... as many as 12 sub-Responsibilities per item.And of course, Responsibility #26 is "Perform other duties as assigned."Oh and there's this classic line:?"Must be able to see, hear, stand, walk, speak, read and perform manual tasks with or without accommodation, and care for oneself with little or no difficulty."I want to get a job where I develop the Responsibilities for other jobs.Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.Lord ActonSo people with any flaws or weaknesses will really fall into this.?If someone is centered over who they are and how they view life, they won't become a monster.?But so many do.I would hire my incompetent brother too. But I'm referring to the rejects who have no interviewing skills, negative attitude, and no connection/networks/family/friends at where they're interviewingBusiness?says they cannot afford to hire unproductive or incompetent workers, but they do it all of the time because of nepotism or favoritism.?It is quite well known that it's very difficult to find a job without knowing someone or being connected.?I've seen so many of these friends or relatives get hired and how much of a burden they are to the businesses.?So I find it odd that you think those who are unemployed are somehow incompetent.This thread has been around for a very long time. It's my hope that the people who fell off from posting found employment and no longer have a need to rant about unemployment.I used to post under another screen name some time ago when I was much more hopeful and confident in my skills. It's been almost two years since then and I still haven't found full-time employment in my field of study. I've found out that my degree is pretty much useless (at least where I live) and I don't have money to relocate. I attempted another degree a few weeks ago, but the pressure of the loan money was too much. I simply cannot take on anymore debt. I still haven't paid any of what I owe for my first degree.I feel very lost. I don't have much work experience because I'm young (only 22), yet everyone expects me to have several years of full-time experience under my belt. I simply don't have that experience but I'm desperate for work that can support me. I can't keep working retail because I cannot pay for an?apartment, car,?health?and car?insurance, and my loans on 7.50 an hour. I'm so broke I still live with my parents.I'm really hoping that doors will open up soon; for me and for any other hardworking people who can't find employment.And for anyone that is mocking us and ridiculing where we are in life, I hope you never have to face long-term unemployment. It breaks people's self-esteem and causes deep depression. If ranting with other people in the same boat helps ease the pain, why ridicule them for that?One of my relatives had been looking for a job for almost five years. He bumped into his old boss and told him about the never ending job search. The former boss told him to change his resume to show that he still worked for the company and backed him up when the?HR?dept called to verify employment.He has been working for the new company for several months and they love panies need to stop discriminating against the long term unemployed as NO survey ever conducted supports the drop in "skill set" claimed by businesses these days.Many companies simply will not touch you if you have been unemployed for any length of time.Every time I interview, they ask "So how have you been supporting yourself?" or "What have you been doing with yourself?"I hate the "So how have you been supporting yourself?" question! What does this question have to do with the open position?Maybe no surveys but some companies will ask you take a battery of tests claiming it's a viable way to assess whether you've lost your skills..mind.Well I have been thinking about going to graduate school so I have been studying for the GMAT for the past few months. One employer had me fill out a 100 something math test and I did well as I had the knowledge fresh in my mind. The interviewer told me, "You did well - really well on the test!" Apparently, it wasn't enough to get the job. Kind of frustrating - why put candidates through all the tests if you have NO intention of?hiringthem? Time is money - I should send a bill :)Today I got the idea to look up a few of the companies I've applied to in the past year, and I was able to see who their hired from the staff bios on their websites. It turns out that the other applicants were truly better than me. I'm a good applicant, but I was underestimating the competition. I'm a?collegegraduate (2013) and in the writing/editorial field. It looks like I'm going to have to build up a stronger freelance writing portfolio to be a better applicant. It makes me motivated to improve myself, but it's kind of a blow to my self-confidence knowing that I'm easy to knock out of the competition.Seriously.It just boggles my mind that experience and solid skill-sets seem to have no value in today's job market.?California is a good representative of a two-tier economy. I wonder if the rest of the US is following suit with this model. Where do they think the rest of us are going to go??I wish someone had something like a "Job Corps" program for the people who used to be the middle class. I would gladly join up.I agree. There aren't many levels to management anymore, either. You go to some places and it's "one boss". That's it.?The future will be doctors, lawyers, and bankers with everyone else making their lattes, servicing their cars,?cleaning?their homes, and waiting on their tables.?It's rather a scary thought, because a lot of people don't belong in the upper jobs and a lot of the ones in the menial jobs are way too smart for those.The Middle Class was something uniquely great about America. You could live pretty well and not have to be rich. Now, that's pretty much gone.Again, I totally agree. News now is just emotional, sappy stuff. If they really wanted to report information, they'd talk about the statistics of the job market in the US. But then again, they'd probably sugarcoat it.?It seems like people have to have some kind of "help" to get a decent job now. That don't say that in these newstories, but that's the truth. Unless someone "saw" them or felt something for them, they wouldn't get a better job.They need to report it without sugar-coating! Perhaps if they did, those of us who have been long-term unemployed/underemployed would not be viewed as "unemployable" and treated with suspicion or not even considered at all.But then again, pretty much any mainstream media source is completely unreliable, biased and useless and serves mainly to usher the?generalpopulation into a state of apathy, where it will remain until the two-tier economy has completely taken hold and more people get affected. And then it might be too late.I am not a conspiracy theorist or anarchist, but I see a?French?Revolution in America's future. Might come too late for us, but if things continue as they do, it will come. Once a person has nothing left to lose, it's easy to take action, and slowly but surely, despite what the "news" reports, despite our best efforts, more and more of us are becoming displaced.And yes, I do realize I sound completely nuts. :)I am in the same boat as are millions of others. Its not going to get better. This is it.It's obvious what the agenda is for the USA now.We do a disservice to immigrants by not encouraging them to learn English.Employers want cheap help. What better way to get it by employing people that are just trying to find their way in this country. I can't help but think there are many illegals taking the jobs we used to give high school kids and blue collar workers.There are a lot of people coming to America who aren't really "immigrants". They are just here for the free handouts and complain when they don't get enough. It's our tax dollars funding this, and they think it's like some big well of money that keeps replenishing itself. They just can't figure out why Americans don't like this.I fear this is true. I have never seen so many immigrants (legal/illegal) working the jobs that used to belong to the?general?blue collar workers. I have a nephew right now that would give anything to have a nice part time job while he attends?college. He's had no luck. I could say more, but it's not politically correct and I am not looking to attack any group of people. I can't blame them for wanting better. But I do have issue with those that come illegally and expect jobs and benefits. Employers that exploit this ought to be punished, but we know that will never happen.Yes, my great-grandparents did the same thing! But that America is long gone.They love to hire illegals because they know they won't demand benefits, won't make waves, will work for cash. The profit margin is the only bottom line with many businesses these days. It irks me that they seem to demand complete loyalty and towing of the party line but give nothing in return aside from a paltry wage and unaffordable benefits.I simply wish that I wasn't being disqualified for jobs in America that I would be otherwise perfectly qualified for simply because I grew up in America and back in the 70s-80s, there wasn't a huge push in the school systems for kids to become bi-lingual. I know there's no use crying over spilt milk, but sometimes I just have to VENT.I'm old enough to remember the shocking news footage of what was happening in Vietnam and the shipment of bodies coming home. Those kinds of images got the masses out in the streets in protest. In today's world, the media is not showing the tens of thousands of people that can't get jobs and are losing everything. It would be bad for?business?and politics as usual. They control far too much and have way too much power. Imagine the bedlam if people really did get together in the same rage they had decades ago.I concur with all this. You know it's bad when highly educated people are now expected to start at $10 an hour. I've watched my own grown?childrenstruggle and know this will not get better for my grandchildren.The bi-lingual requirement for almost every job is code for cheap?labor?and should be considered discriminatory.I fear this is true. I have never seen so many immigrants (legal/illegal) working the jobs that used to belong to the?general?blue collar workers. I have a nephew right now that would give anything to have a nice part time job while he attends?college. He's had no luck. I could say more, but it's not politically correct and I am not looking to attack any group of people. I can't blame them for wanting better. But I do have issue with those that come illegally and expect jobs and benefits. Employers that exploit this ought to be punished, but we know that will never happen.Or just expect benefits.I have also seen an influx of people coming to my state from other states that just want benefits. On the bus once, I heard an older woman advising a younger woman that she shouldn't be struggling to actually WORK a job because Minnesota was the "land of milk and honey". Then she proceeded to give her instructions on how to scam various local organizations like she and her daughter did in order to receive a free mini-van, furnishedapartment, and weekly 100.00 gift cards to Target. She even illustrated the correct crying tone to use when calling and advised her to say, "I can't keep doing this to my kids!" I was riding home after a long day at the crappy?call center?and I just. didn't. want. to. hear. it.Moving in with parents is still a stand-up comic's joke, but way more real than anybody realizes. My son is 45, has a degree and 25-year work history in?education?and has been living with me for 3 years with no income. He made the rounds to?fast food, counter help, etc. and finally got hired at a WalMart, but only because he checked the "overnight" box on the application where it asked what shifts he was available for. I've also been unemployed for a year, and my unemployment comp has stopped. We're now trying to keep the ship afloat on my meager Social Security and his $9 an hour Wally World job. As far as being able to retire, I'd LOVE to get out of everybody's way and let that be one job for somebody else. But I don't want my son to have to support me for the rest of my life. So I still look but only at jobs I truly want. By the way, for all you ultra qualified folks, you may be interested to know that when I resigned from my last job (medical office, 17 years experience) because it was?driving?me insane, I was replaced by a waitress. 4 bucks an hour and 20 hours a week less. Not very encouraging. Also of note, the latest group of morons who interviewed me and gushed at how impressed they were and would call me Monday.....crickets all week. And so it goes....Recently heard a news report (yes, news report, so starting kicking)say that the only way out of this economic debacle is a war. A war??Funny but not so long ago, a lady at my?church, who is majoring inEconomics, mentioned this same thing as the solution. I thought it was an interesting comment then and I still think so. I think they're forgetting that it was an altogether different world/market back when the economy improved after wars. There were less inventions and less decline in acceptable social mores (i.e. companies are more greedy now and don't care what they step on to get to the next rung).According to some experts, Social Security will be bankrupt within the next 20 years. There are already fewer people paying into it and those that do, do so at lesser amounts. Add to this that we old geezers are opting for early SS in massive numbers now.?I have a friend who is a teacher and she's had the "invasion of privacy" conversation with her students in regards to drug-testing. Their response is generally, "Well, I have nothing to hide. I don't care if I have to get drug-tested." SO not the point.It's so depressing that the younger generation has grown up thinking that employers doing surveillance on your entire life (in and out of work) is normal and acceptable. *sigh*Yes, many people on FB are TMI but even placing your profile on private is used against you. Employers just see it as having something to hide. A couple of years back employers were even demanding FB passwords!?I heard about that a few years ago. I had a FB page for a few months, but could not figure out any use for really. I never posted anything of a personal nature anyway. If an employer had ever demanded the password, my response would have been my middle finger and perhaps a harsh word or two.If I remember correctly, a few states made it against the?law?for employers to ask for FB passwords.Oh, and "60 Minutes" did a story about companies "harvesting your personal?data" (again, courtesy of my mom throwing this up to my face, because it's clearly my fault I'm unemployable). Although they did say fb "keeps their harvested data to themselves," maybe they are selling it privately? Who knows...again, seems ludicrous for companies to go to such efforts to disqualify people when they could probably do the same just by reading one's resume...Funny, just the other day I "deactivated" my fb page. My mom is convinced that it's the reason I haven't been able to find a job and has been harassing me about it these past few years, she saw one story about a woman who got fired for posting something controversial on her page...I tried to explain to my mom that woman didn't have her privacy settings set like mine where only my friends can see my content...while the logical side of me doesn't want to believe it could be something silly like that (I mean, seriously, companies don't have better ways to spend their?energy?evaluating candidates? no one in the world would have a job if it boils down to your fb page), I'm pretty much out of theories on why so many of us have been kicked out of the job market (I used to?google?my name oten to make sure nothing "bad" was out there). No, I didn't post pics of myself nekkid or drunk, but I did partake in some political "debates" that got a bit heated. So did fb kill my career? I'll never know, as it's too late to rectify...That's why with the exception of my LinkedIn profile any social online activities are carried out under an alias and personal email separate from my professional, job hunting panies do harvest personal information and they do sell it. I know this from a demographic marketing standpoint. Ask yourself how does Facebook actually makes money? Why is?Google?almost $600 a share? Are you paying them?If you are still not convinced, post a resume on Craigslist and watch how many once in a lifetime opportunities suddenly fill up your inbox. That is where all the scams come from.If information is available today, it is for sale. That said, one of my relatives is a detective and if they are looking for you, one of the first places they check is to see if you have a Facebook page. LOL!The best thing is to always post anonymously. Sadly, people can and will interpret the most innocent things you write in a negative manner a lot of times.emp agencies just seem to be a waste of time in my experience, There come a time when everyone who has been abused or mislead will get together and contact washing for a bill to be passed against all temp agencies for false?advertising?so they can be fined.I went on a job interview 2 weeks ago and the recruiter flat out lied, The client I interviewed with confirmed it and they even complained about how they didn't understand why temp agencies lie just to get people to go on a job interview or lie about the job description.?can't see anyone ever not?hiring?someone because they ::have:: a Facebook?account. If they could somehow see your page AND you were constantly posting about hating your boss or had pictures of you lighting a bong or something, maybe.Oh I have stories for you! LOL?Years ago I went on a job interview where they asked me for my screen name on facebook. I refused and the interviewer stated to me "well I guess you don't want the job then".I put down the application and looked at him and said "you know what your right, I don't need the job", and I left but the look on his face was priceless.Years later out here in California (I believe the it was in Ca) a company was fined due to Requiring all prospect employees and regular employees to give their screen name and password. It was all over the news. :)?I believe the employees won a sum of money as well in the?court?case. :)Oh I'm sorry about your living situation moving backward. Dang, when do we get a win? I just started getting my unemployment so I'm ok FOR NOW, but I would still rather have an actual job. I have savings and the unemployment, but the unknown scares me. But oh how I don't want to go back into ANOTHER job I might hate. I was there for years. Aged me 15 years.Like my sis tells me, I need to stay off facebook. That's where I see 'Another GREAT DAY! I'm blessed. Off to work!' oh and one friend said if she won the lottery she'd still keep working. La dee da, isn't it great to love your job that much? I bet most of those people at the newspaper job got in from someone they know. Probably weren't even qualified to work there.Oh and get this the worse part for the newspaper people, they heard about the massive lay off on the News!!?The LA Times didn't even have the balls to tell people they were shutting their doors. I can only imagine the possible shootings that will happen in LA soon at the plant.Thanks I do feel like I am going backwards, between the 7 doctors that I have now seen and none of them have a clue as to what's wrong with my right leg, it's just hilarious at this point. A friend did offer for me to stay with her but I'd just feel like I'm imposing. I'm still giving it some thought though, the idea of being itchy and stinky all day is not a good thought for me. LOL?I've been homeless before and stayed at a shelter and the people there were pretty much nuts in the head that should of been in a mental ward instead of on the streets.Good luck to us all. I'm finding that volunteer position(s) won't lead to employment; @ least my most recent first contact made that clear to the few of us @ the first session. I'm qualified & have applied to a dozen different?clerical?positions @ a local medical facility; all they want is another volunteer instead. Don't know what I'd do if I didn't qualify for early retirement since my unemployment benefits ended. Can't live on social security either. What do people do? Only option to die?It seems like it. re; die?I been praying every night for death to come and take me away.?I'm tired of being in constant pain, limping to job interviews that either are not as described or having them turn out to be part time when they were advertised as?full time.?Tired of the "over qualified" BS as well. Its a wonder so many shootings have been happening with Ex-employees going "Rambo" when terminated.I wish all the CEOs, VPs and Presidents would all get laid off their cushion pay jobs and experience what it's like to go from making a nice living to minimum wage.I wish I could retire, but in CA you have to be 62 to even receive your SSI benefits, and by the time I'm 62, whose to say that the benefits will even be there or if I'll be alive.?I swear?bank?robbery is starting to look really good now.I'm still wondering on how retirement will work for me since I have been working temp for so long with no kind of savings for retirement, I may have to just rob a?bank, get caught, do my time in jail as a retirement gift to myself. At least it be free room and board. LOLMe too. I never did a 401 (k) at work because when I first started we made so little me and my friend joked that we didn't want any money taken out. I started looking into a Roth IRA last year becasue that's what my friend eventually did but figured it out to late because now I"m not working. So I screwed myself there. I think about retirement a lot lately because I know it's not like it used to be. There won't be any money left for it. Jobs pay so crappy you'll have to work until you die because you can't live off of anything the?government?will give you. I wish I was like my aunts, they had nice jobs, got nice pensions and they retired 15 years ago before it all went bad. I so wish I could not have to care like them."Maybe tomorrow". Well, a couple of those and now it's another week. A few more "maybe tomorrows" and now it's been another month. Suddenly summer's over and it's been a YEAR, here comes Christmas again, but you remember this is the SECOND Christmas and so it's been almost TWO years! The thing is that it can happen to ANYONE. Doesn't matter how much schooling you have or haven't got. I know that life's a beach (not my choice of words), but some folks just seem to cruise right through. You know? :^/I have been trying to make myself useful by helping my parents with theirbusiness. They own a?cleaning?company and it actually makes a lot of money, but they're trying to get enough?contracts?so that they themselves don't have to do the cleaning and can send employees to do it. I've helped them get three new clients, including a?college?building that pays over two thousand a month and an office building that pays $600 a month. I've been having to learn a lot about SEO,?advertising, writing contracts, answering phones in a?customer?friendly way, direct mailing, writing business letters and proposals, and more. At least this is keeping me somewhat productive. I want my parents to not have to do hard physical work when they're old so it's good motivation. Combined they currently earn 14K a month, but they need to do so much physical?labor. Hope I can get them enough clients that they can sit at home and just pay younger people to do the cleaning.One of the first jobs I had after graduating?college?was?cleaning?houses. I couldn't find a job to save my life!That was many years ago and I couldn't do it now but I have thought about trying to own a cleaning service.Cleaning is one of the most profitable businesses out there. People just don't want to do it because it's not glamorous.I worked with a girl way back, who was in college,?business?major, worked in the summer, not sure what she wanted to do. Recently ran into her brother, who told me she started cleaning houses and turned it into a profitable business. Maybe you could take over the family business when your parents retire?I'm about to bust out in a fit of rage. Why does every stupid listing have to be part-time, 24/7 open availability!?Why, for the life of me, can't I find ANYTHING that is full-time with some sort of set schedule!?Even though I know I'd never be hired for these full-time positions, at least I would know they exist! I feel like I'm doomed to live in my parents house, sharing a bedroom with a younger sibling for the rest of my life. It shouldn't be so hard to support yourself!?God, I really friggin hate my life right now. I feel like using what little money I have, jumping on a train out to Wyoming and start living in the mountains. I'd probably die from exposure or starvation, but I'd at least die with a pretty view.I hate whining about my life, but dang it I'm so tired of seeing the same part-time slave wage jobs in my area. There's nothing for me here. Nothing.I hate this myself. That's all that seems to be available now. And usually they put that on the end of 20 other requirements.?I wish I could retire, but in CA you have to be 62 to even receive your SSI benefits, and by the time I'm 62, whose to say that the benefits will even be there or if I'll be alive.?I swear?bank?robbery is starting to look really good now.It seems the only people getting pensions are?government?workers. So you and I pay, through our taxes, for these people to retire at a nice age, where they can enjoy the retirement. We pay for their pensions, their?healthcare, and who knows what else. They can retire at 40, 50, whenever.If you work for private industry, you only can put money away pre-tax if they offer a 401K or similar, but no one gives you a thing to live off for retirement.It seems so wrong to take from others.That is why the competition for gub'mint jobs is so fierce. One of my neighbor's is a double-dipper. He gets two pension checks: one from the USMC and the other for working for 20 years for the?Federal government.Has no idea that that times are bad.I think some of them do but don't care.?Willfully ignorant.?I never had the mindset of taking advantage of things, that somehow, that would ruin things, but obviously a lot of people don't care.?The whole public assistance thing is just ruined.A lot of people don't realize it. They believe what they're fed on the nightly news. Recession over,?housing?sales up, unemployment down??! That's because so many of us have been dropped from the unemployment rolls and we're no longer visible.When people are purposely blind and believe propaganda, they are buying themselves the ability to live it up while things are going down.we can't afford it any longer. take a person going to work for the govt at 27. does 30 years. retires at 57. there's a chance he will live another 30 years. can't afford that.My next door neighbor used to work as a teacher for the?City?of San Francisco. He is absolutely RICH compared to me. He gets a generous pension, free?healthcare, etc.My neighbor seems to have more money than he knows what to do with, and he was just a?government?worker, nothing that prestigious. Not a cop or a?firefighter. Guess I should have been a teacher!My neighbor has his home completely paid off. He retired at around age 55. He has 5 dogs (in violation of City policy) that he spends $250 a month to have groomed. He also can afford weekly maid service. In addition, my neighbor is constantly doing costly 'home improvement' projects that aren't even necessary. He got 'early retirement' and has nothing but time and lots of money on his hands.You got that right.?I went to EDD office today and spoke with a worker there and she told me they are no longer doing extensions, once your 26 weeks runs out, that's it. And what I found really really hard to believe is the office had only 2 job seekers there looking for work when normally the office is full and there is a waiting line to get on the computers and it seems like all the EDD workers that use to work there all lost their jobs due to lays, I so wanta tell them "welcome to the club of the unemployed, now you get to go through what the rest of us have been going through".The?counselor?at my private university told me to go to the EDD. She was clueless about everything. Now I discover that the EDD doesn't even help people find work anymore. Guess they all got laid off!My next door neighbor used to work as a teacher for the?City?of San Francisco. He is absolutely RICH compared to me. He gets a generous pension, free?healthcare, etc.My neighbor seems to have more money than he knows what to do with, and he was just a?government?worker, nothing that prestigious. Not a cop or a?firefighter. Guess I should have been a teacher!My neighbor has his home completely paid off. He retired at around age 55. He has 5 dogs (in violation of City policy) that he spends $250 a month to have groomed. He also can afford weekly maid service. In addition, my neighbor is constantly doing costly 'home improvement' projects that aren't even necessary. He got 'early retirement' and has nothing but time and lots of money on his hands.Personally, I'm happy for people who worked for decades and landed on their feet. It's not their fault that they got their jobs and their retirement packages in a better time than we are facing now. The way I see it, he's one person not competing for the jobs the rest of us need. There are 5 dogs being well cared for instead of in a pound or worse. If you or I could have scored a deal like that, I know I, at least would have. Enviable, yes, but I can't resent people who have made it to a comfortable retirement through their own work efforts, just because mine haven't paid off.The EDD told me about . LOL!Wow--it's a diabolical circle, LOL! Private counselors tell you to go the EDD. The EDD tells you to go to . I'll bet I'm not the only one who feels caught in an endless circle, looking anywhere for advice. These days, the EDD or anyone else will just refer us to yet another website.The EDD told me about . LOL!Same here :)The state unemployment office sent me a letter stating I had to spend most of the day in a group session. They went over the basics of job searching and I didn't learn anything new. Then we watched a movie and in the movie the narrator mentioned that, "...in fact some day in the future you may see computers in most offices." I had to laugh at that comment, when was this movie made?!Been there. They are completely out-of-date and out of touch.So you've noticed this too? LOL! In my industry, we call this the $500 flyswatter - just a huge bureaucracy designed to accomplish a very simple thing.Watching some season 2 episodes of the Walking Dead as I job search and I'd rather live like that than do this. It's sad when I'd rather have a Zombie Apocalypse so I don't have to worry about finding a job anymore, I'd rather take my chances with the Walkers. At least I won't have worry about bills and job searching.And you can always blow some steam on a bad day by sniping some zombies for target practice. No need for a weapon permit anymore! Woo Hoo!Worse Company Ever - K-Force!!!This is just a Rant.?I received a phone call on Monday with the promise of the job starting on Oct 6th, I'm delighted because this means I would not have to give up myapartment?and move to a shelter, low and behold I receive a phone call today and the recruiter tells me, oh we haven't submitted any resumes yet until we meet everyone. I'm thinking WTF ??The recruiter tells me I'm meeting everyone at 1 pm today, well it's 11:45 and corona is a good hour drive so I'm thinking great, no need in me stressing over this crap and then here's the ringer.....................................The recruiter tells me "oh the job is not starting on the 6th of Oct,?Kaiserstill has to review all the resumes first and pick the people they want to interview and the position / job itself probably wouldn't be starting until mid Oct. or the end of Oct.I told the recruiter I would have to borrow money for gas to get there since I have no income, then she questions "would you be able to get to work ? I told her yes, I have not sold my car yet and I have transportation to get there.I thought to myself, this chick has no intention of referring me for this job position with all the questions she was asking me such as "would you commit to the job with it being only 4 weeks, I told her yes since it's paying $20 an hour for?data entry, then she asks, would you be able to do the job ? Have you done a job like this before sitting in front of a?computer?all day ? I'm thinking, ok this "B" has not even looked at my resume asking me stupid questions like this. Heck I was an?admin?assist /?executive?admin for years sitting in front of a computer for 8 hours a day, if you don't want to refer me for the position, fine, just don't dangle the dam carrot for the job in front of my face or waste my time and phone minutes, seriously, WTH ?Why do these dam agencies have to lie ???????????????Yah it's their loss. I know I was qualified for the positions I applied for. I got another e-mail from?Adecco?temp service also. They rejected me, then they send me a job offer for parts inspection today!!! I could inspect parts for $11 an hour, but I would need to get a criminal check first. I sent them a message back telling them to remove me from their system. One day I hope these companies become desperate for workers and the tables turn on them. Too many jobs, not enough workers!!!Yes, it is their loss.?I'm working on a petition and letter to send to Washington DC on making temp agencies liable for false?advertising?and misrepresentation jobs.?I filed a complaint weeks ago on?Kelly services?and they are giving me the run around in not answering or responding to my emails. So I'll be filing another complaint with the better?business?bureau, it may not do any good but at least there will be a complaint on file :)We all need money.Dam straight, I need money now!?Just received last EDD Check for $226, I'm rich! LOL?Hanging my head as I start to pack up my place and preparing myself for the possibility of shelter life. Ughs.?I think I will just stay in my car and do the YWCA for showers.?This totally sucks.The state unemployment office sent me a letter stating I had to spend most of the day in a group session. They went over the basics of job searching and I didn't learn anything new. Then we watched a movie and in the movie the narrator mentioned that, "...in fact some day in the future you may see computers in most offices." I had to laugh at that comment, when was this movie made?!They do the same thing here with referring you to take classes that are 8 hours a day.?I did most of the classes in the past and didn't really learn anything. I left more frustrated than anything. You really can't concentrate on such things when your depressed and those instructors just don't understand that nor do they get it.I honestly wish the tables would turn and have all the employed experience everything that the unemployed are going through, loosing your home,apartment, living in your car, living in a shelter etc. It's not a life that anyone wants or longs for and these evil employers with all their games are no better.As for the staffing agencies and who they employ, they are the bottom feeders of this economy, they know that people are struggling and yet they still dangle that "carrot" It's shameful and if they ever knew what it was like on the other side, I doubt they would be taking advantage of people the way they do...Since when does a secretary/AA also have to be a travel agent, lol....I can't help but laugh at some of the duties some of these companies want you to excel at....I have been job searching since 8am and I have been laughing right along with you. I would say it's gotten worse, but it probably was the same I just didn't know because I haven't been job looking for years. But employers want more and more for less and less. I've been sitting here thinking 'what are these job descriptions...?' They are insane. I can't get over these extreme level of skills and abilities they want for $10 an hour, and they are so adamant over what you MUST HAVE walking in the door.And I worked reception and now jobs want the receptionist to run errands, stock the kitchen and bathroom, distribute mail and office supplies along with?admin?work. What happened to staying at the?front desk? How do you answer phones when you are stocking coffee in the break room?I've seen ads requiring admin assistants to have?accounting?AND?graphic design?skills on top of the usual admin skills!Exactly, and I remember when I was let go of my last job my office manager told me they wanted the next person to have Secretarial School experience/degree. Nothing against secretaries, but I DO NOT want to go to SCHOOL just to learn how to assist someone who sees me as nothing already. I just can't do it. It just feels so demeaning to go to school to be a secretary, like it's the 40's and that was 'Women's work' and the only option. The problem is that Admins run the offices, expect they don't.I'm an office manager and have been for 10 years. What I'm seeing is absolutely ridiculous (to put it mildly) and I have no degree, but numerous years of experience in?HR?and?Accounting?but these employers think a degree is better than experience??I could understand a vocational program (several months to a year tops!) for those who are fresh out of high school or those who have never been in the workforce. To require that and a bachelors of someone who already has years of?admin?and?clerical?experience is an insult.Yes, I agree about the vocational degree for young and no office skills. But most people start as the receptionist or office?clerk?and move up. No need to go to school for that. Employers just don't want to be bothered unless they can get the skilled and desperate for less.Now I love me some Catfish battered in cornmeal and deep fried, but that Temp bottom feeder I would put in a Shredding machine and watch it slowly die! LOLYou are right on point on how temp agencys treat people for sure, they think it's ok to mistreat someone and that we will just put up with it because we need a job. One day they will learn and there will come a time where a shooting will occur and it will be at a temp agency. Not saying that it's gonna be me, I'm just saying :) LOLTemp AgencyI have to say I am very proud of myself.?I sent an email to an temp agency yesterday K-force telling them to Remove me from their?data?base and to Destroy my resume because I do not believe in working for a company that mistreats or disrespects people.?I caught them in a lie, a flat out lie and I may bring it to their corporate office attention. I am on?Fire! LOL?No one should be mistreated. The recruiter had the balls to tell the office staff that I had transportation issues because I couldn't met her at the drop of a hat in Corona when she called me at 11:45 am telling me to met her at 1 pm. Mind you, no promise of a job and she slipped and said "Oh you haven't been submitted for the job yet and the job doesn't start until end of October". LOL?Not! My parents taught my and my siblings not to play games and they are lucky because if I could get away with it, I would make the news for going to their office and shooting them all with paint guns :) hahahahahWelcome to the group.?All I can say is keep your head up and go for getting your license in CA.?Don't be surprised if your offered a lower salary then what your use to making. Employers just figured since the job market is crazy with folks looking for work that it gives them the right to offer a lower salary than what they would normally pay.There are too many people with?college?degrees and not enough jobs to go around. I read one recent study: At least 50% of college grads are working at jobs that do NOT require a college degree.But just try to get a job in?fast food?or retail. They ALL want 'experience'! NO experience, no job. And the pay is so low it's a crime. I believe in paying folks a 'living wage', even if the?government?has to mandate it. That's probably the only way that companies will ever agree to pay a decent wage. But companies still offer 'under the table' work to get around paying even minimum wage."Perfect employee" has replaced "dedicated, loyal, hard working and willing to learn" they don't care about that anymore.True--nobody wants to take the time to train anyone anymore. I've contacted several businesses and have offered to work for FREE as anapprentice, in order to gain some experience. I tried a?jewelry?store. They want someone who is a graduate of a prestigious jewelry academy.Employers are looking for people with VERY specialized skills and experience. There's always somebody else who's a better match. Contacting small businesses and offering to work for FREE as an apprentice does NOT work these days.Never allowed to be sick? Never allowed to go to the doctor? The modern workforce is sounding more and more like indentured servitude.I am sure that some employers would love to repeal the 13th Amendment.I worked for one company about 10 years ago and just prior to my starting, they were fined by the?Labor?Board. They were only allowing people to go to lunch when "they weren't busy". Lunch is a?law?not a company policy.Someone just asked me why aren't the people looking for jobs doing volunteer work while they are looking? She said that she knows people who got jobs because they were volunteering at the companies. So when an opening came up, they were hired.She said people should also be going on LinkedIn because her professional contact say that you must have an updated LinkedIn profile to get hired in today's market. And don't forget to hire yourself a headhunter.I wonder if some people realized that getting to and from these volunteer gigs cost money. If the company isn't willing to cover my transportation cost or absolutely guarantee me a paid position in the future I'd rather use that money to pay bills and keep a roof over my head.What you wrote makes more sense. To me, most companies would be willing to keep the person on as a volunteer since it's free?labor?and saving them a lot of money. They would be in no big hurry to make the job a paid position.Everyone is always trying to make money off of us by telling us we can't do this or that.?We are supposed to need career coaches and all sorts of gurus.?But we all know they don't know anything more than we do about the economy and we probably know MORE about our own job markets and what it takes to do our jobs than they do.I had this temp assignment in a building and down the hall was a guy who ran some kind of time share?business. He bragged to my boss about running the whole thing with unpaid "interns" from a local?college. He just gave them their "credits".I just think employers are taking advantage with the whole volunteer/internship?fad today.I agree. I wonder why people insist that volunteering leads to a job. There is no volunteering in my line of work, unless you go to a boss and say you'll work free. Then they'd think someone is crazy.?If people think they have to volunteer at a charity to show some?hiringmanager they were "working", then they are not concerned about having the brainpower to do the work. They are more concerned about showing how much of a slave they will be.?Everyone knows when you lose a job, you are out of work and it takes time to find a job.?I am working, but I have never once had anyone, when I was interviewing for any kind of a job, ask me if I spent my time volunteering. Never.Everyone is always trying to make money off of us by telling us we can't do this or that.?We are supposed to need career coaches and all sorts of gurus.?But we all know they don't know anything more than we do about the economy and we probably know MORE about our own job markets and what it takes to do our jobs than they do.This is SO dead on. We are told to revise our resume', get better clothes, show up early, show up exactly on time, answer this interview question this way (whether it's true or not), then another article or "expert" will tell you to answer the same question another way. Volunteering will get you NOTHING, except an unpaid job. Great idea, if as Ms. Dopplganger points out you have money laying around for gas. I am finding it's all a very large crapshoot, and clueless people are actually making money advising us on how to roll the dice.I had this temp assignment in a building and down the hall was a guy who ran some kind of time share?business. He bragged to my boss about running the whole thing with unpaid "interns" from a local?college. He just gave them their "credits".I just think employers are taking advantage with the whole volunteer/internshipfad today.I agree.?I've heard some industries do use students as free?labor?with an employee overseeing them.?It's really sad when there are experienced people to do the job.I blame the students. They should know better and they should know they are creating a bad future for everyone else and themselves.?They aren't just victims here.I don't think the students do realize what they're doing. Any student will leap at an?internship?in their field, because they think it will get them a job after they graduate. Then they end up on a forum like this totally confused at how ultra prepared and educated they are at 22 and still can't get hired. It's sad all around. Except, of course, for the employers who are getting their slave labor.A lot of them will do anything to get a foot in the door.?I've seen people work free, not a real internship, and that's scary.?I wonder when they think an employer is going to start paying them.You're probably thinking this too...where is all of this going to take everything? How far will people go to get a job?Yes, unfortunately, this is the way it is, until that is, and if, the economy turns around and employers are faced with little or no pool to choose from. In the 80's, everybody who wanted a job had one. The production plant where I worked had to implement a?creative?weekend shift with perks AND full benefits to entice people to staff the place on weekends, because, at that time, dishwashers were making $10 an hour, literally, in this area. I just hope I live long enough to see employers in that position again. I didn't appreciate it at the time, but I certainly will from here on out.Most companies won't even accept volunteer work as valid employment because it isn't. They will give it a good will nod and then say they need references from paid work. Maybe volunteer work gained points in yesteryear but not so much in today's search.As the population increases and more people enter the US, the job market will worsen. Most of the manufacturing jobs have left, so the businesses dependent on that are hurting or gone too.?Politicians always run on "jobs" and nothing changes.I've been around long enough to know, and have actually witnessed, that everything runs in cycles. I don't think manufacturing will ever be what it once was, but it IS returning, because some of the current start-up generation feel it is important to make products in the USA. Some of us, if at all possible, buy only products made in the USA. I think jobs of the future will be in tech, preventing cyber attacks, crime,?healthcare, and, as always, service work. Anybody notice that not too many people have completely stopped eating out?I've been around too, and agree with you.?I see a lot of people spending money. New homes, new cars, eating out, vacations, shopping sprees.?That's not me!?I wonder who all of these people are, who are so generously compensated, because any time I've looked for a job, they want to pay low.If manufacturing ever comes back, it will be treated like?agriculture?with an imported?labor?force.?It's very difficult to be in the Middle class in the US anymore.So true! I watch my youngest son struggle just outside the Boston area on $14 and change per hour. Median home price (for an old piece of crap) is $350,000 and people are buying them. People?driving?and putting gas in SUV's the size of a small?apartment?and I constantly wonder "where are they getting the money"????Hey, I see that too and wonder the same...how do you afford to fill those things up??They must be the people getting jobs because they know someone. Perhaps "knowing someone" includes a lofty pay scale.?If you go to the airports, they are packed. It's not?business?travelers, it's vacationers!?I've talked to people who have second and third homes. It's amazing. I always thought these were people who made money in the previous decades, but it's something else.?I know?government?workers can retire in their forties and be taken care of for life with pensions, free medical, etc. A lot of them have the money to relocate and buy a new home where they want to live. Makes working for private industry really depressing.Hey, I hear that one can retire in Costa Rica and live on just social security. I've actually considered that!Interesting. I used to feel that having to leave the US was a bad thing, but I have since changed my mind. I feel like I am working to support things I don't approve of and I will get nothing in return.?It seems only a generation ago, the US was a good place to be.Do people ever have the nerve to ask an employer, "How am I supposed to LIVE on minimum wage/?entry level?pay?" (I'm sure that question is forbidden!). But look at what RENT alone costs, esp. in Calif.?Food?is expensive, so is gas,?health?insurance?is costly--everything is so expensive! And that's regardless of where in the US you live. Are people living 4 to a one-room apt. or something? I just don't get it.I'm starting to believe people are living 4 to a studio like in new York. LOL?A?hotel?worker on the news said his rent for a studio is 1350 a month, his current salary of 10 an hour doesn't even cover his rent so is working 2 jobs just to cover his rent.Yes, the cost of living is crazy, it's just a shame that no one in thegovernment?or employers thought of raising the minimum wage to deal with the fact.Obama needs to get his a** in the kitchen and start baking some cookies!!!!!!!!!He also needs to take a walk on every low income street, trailer park, RV park and public parks to see the real people who are in need of help.It sickens me to see so many people homeless and on the streets, Whether I'll be part of it or not. Our?government?is not doing enough.I been talking with this homeless man now for a couple of months, he's still waiting to get disability to mental problems. The system, his family, friends just forgot about him.I'm making it a point to make a difference and to show compassion.Our government needs to do the same. Sad how this type of stuff doesn't make the news. I read 2 days ago that there is a town here in California in the dessert area where there has been no running water for 5 months due to the drought. People are having to buy water by the case load just to bath with and flush their toilets with. Sad world we live in.Someone just asked me why aren't the people looking for jobs doing volunteer work while they are looking? She said that she knows people who got jobs because they were volunteering at the companies. So when an opening came up, they were hired.She said people should also be going on LinkedIn because her professional contact say that you must have an updated LinkedIn profile to get hired in today's market. And don't forget to hire yourself a headhunter.Whomever this person is must be employed because she is full of Sh*t.?Everyone knows that being on networking sites like LinkedIn are a waste of time.?I was on there for a couple of years and never got a job offer, I was solicited many times by temp agencies with jobs in other states because they didn't brother to look to see that I'm in California. Just stupid in my option.As the population increases and more people enter the US, the job market will worsen. Most of the manufacturing jobs have left, so the businesses dependent on that are hurting or gone too.?Politicians always run on "jobs" and nothing changes.The politician's need to close the gate on letting people enter into the US period.?I agree with you as well, the job market will continue getting worse.I've been around too, and agree with you.?I see a lot of people spending money. New homes, new cars, eating out, vacations, shopping sprees.?That's not me!?I wonder who all of these people are, who are so generously compensated, because any time I've looked for a job, they want to pay low.If manufacturing ever comes back, it will be treated like?agriculture?with an imported?labor?force.?It's very difficult to be in the Middle class in the US anymore.Middle Class ? What middle class ??The middle class is close to being extinct.Everyone who has a job thinks it's so easy to get a job.So true.?They haven't a clue on what the job market is like at all, honestly they don't and my so called friends (no longer friends) don't.?I get so sick of hearing "maybe you should just take a minimum wage job (which living in CA would mean I'd have to work 2.5 jobs just for survival) and go from there.?But when I throw it back in their faces with them working their nice 60 - 80K jobs, I hear nothing but silence for their response. LOLDoes anybody get so frustrated with their job situation and possibilities that it sucks the joy out of life, even things you enjoy doing. I have had this for a while, and I apologize to others about my attitude on Saturday, but I was in a bad place. I can't seem to find enjoyment in the simple things often, and I was wondering if people found ways to break out of this? Talking to acounselor?can help, but not always.You are not alone.?There have been many suicides due to not being able to find work here in CA, it seems the news does what it can to keep out of the publics knowledge.?My best friend passed away two years ago due to stress of not being able to find work, lost his house and continued to go down hill from there. His son was the one who found him as well and the son was 22 or 23 at the time.Here in CA, the state has a suicide counselor you can talk to free of charge, so its nice.?For me personally it's on a day to day basis but I have found taking a bible study class and going once a week has helped me a little. I do have my bitter moments in asking why is this crap happening to me etc etc. I have often thought of suicide but have managed to think of the ones I love and would miss and that takes me to a better place every time even if my current situation looks hopeless.?Prayer has helped me as well at times.Our government is not doing enough to help people get jobs. I recently heard a politician say, "Anyone who wants a job should be able to get a job". (I cannot remember who said this, because both Republicans and Democrats say this all the time. It's just empty rhetoric as part of their 'stump speeches'.)I see Republicans blaming Democrats for our nation's problems, and Democrats blaming Republicans for the same problems. I don't have faith in either party. Nobody is offering any constructive solutions, at least not to my knowledge.I went to social services today and the worker suggested that I apply for permanent disability and they would get me to see a doctor, so that is my next step tomorrow.?I want to work but I'd like to find out what's going on with my leg as well before it ends up turning blue and being amputated. Just frustrating.Good luck with SSDI Disability. It's good that you're trying to get it. I've heard that SSDI can be pretty heartless, though. They may well argue that the problem with your leg doesn't affect your ability to type. (I know others with severe chronic illnesses who were denied SSDI Disability). Yet I've also heard of people who got SSDI. It's a real crap-shoot. Even though we've paid into the system, we're required to jump through hoops to get SSDI. Yet another?government?bureaucracy...I can certainly sympathize with other unemployed people who feel like they will never find a job again. I've been out of work for 5 months now (the first time in my adult life) and it is soul crushing it truly is.?I finally got a job offer and it's contingent on passing a background check...I thought wow, that's no problem since I know I've never been in any kind of trouble. Well, it's not as easy as I thought. The background screening company First Advantage still hasn't gotten back them and it's almost a week now, and people have been saying that it can take upwards of sometimes 4 to 6 weeks on background checks.I don't think it's the students fault, they just want their?college?credits so they can graduate or pick up the college credits and experience for what they may be majoring in.I did an unpaid?internship?straight out of college (I went to school for paralegal studies) for a month and a half.?The attorneys and staff loved me and where sad when I left but I told the attorneys "I need to find a paying job" but I was happy for the letter of recommendation they gave me along with the experience I gained. I still in touch with them and they have told me that with the economy being so bad, that their are?law?firms with Attorneys doing paralegal work!It's not the students' fault. In order to graduate from college these days, one must do 'compulsory volunteer work'. SO IF we don't do the 'volunteer' gig, we will NOT get our college degree. The companies are so sneaky---they wait till college students have just enough credits to ALMOST graduate. Then the college informs students about the 'service learning' requirement, usually during the final semester. It's a no-win situation when you are REQUIRED to 'volunteer' in order to get that college degree. After spending 4+ years and $150k in tuition, who's going to say 'NO' to that requirement?I stopped eating at restaurants years ago. It's sad. I used to go out every weekend to upscale places. With a steady job and steady pay, you don't really think twice about 'rewarding' yourself for all the hard work you've done. Now, I'm just trying to pay rent and medical bills. No money for restaurants. All those people in restaurants have either jobs, inheritances, or retirement. (I'm excluding cheap?fast food?here. Even that is probably 'expensive' for many unemployed people). It's hard to maintain friendships when you can't afford to go out to a restaurant, too.I understand wishing for either a winning lottery ticket or a heart attack. The medical establishment can suck whether you're paying lots of money or not. My expensive?insurance?denied an MRI--said I was 'too young' for cancer. They charged me 6k to get the MRI and find out that I did indeed have cancer.I went to 4 diff. doctors. All told me the cancer was 'advanced' and 'aggressive'. The docs promised me if I refused chemo, radiation, and surgery I would die. (I was scared, but I DID NOT want to go through HELL just to try to stay alive). 6 years later and I'm still alive with no cancer symptoms. I've read a lot about how much $ doctors and drug makers make off of the 'cancer industry'. They scare people into getting the toxic 'treatments', when they might be better off doing nothing. Certain types of cancer are being over treated--there are many scientific articles on the subject.verybody thinks 1. It's easy to get a job and 2. It's easy to get?governmentassistance. I only hear this from people with secure $80k per year jobs who are clueless as to '2014 reality'.I just asked a pharmacist about trying to get a job as a pharm tech. He's been working at various pharmacies for 30 years and never been unemployed. He wasn't even aware that these days applicants have to go to the website. I'm not faulting him--glad he's focused on his job.Everyone seems to be living in their own insular realities. Those with steady jobs don't have a clue what it's like out there. My two older brothers got steady jobs in the 1980s. My brother did NOT even know what a 'rejection email' is! Lucky him.What's truly scary is that probably the most secure jobs are inHEALTHCARE! And pharmaceuticals.....what does that say about the condition of the population?!Ughs!?Busted another agency today and put them on blast on social media.?Just tired of the lies.?Received phone call with the typical "can you come in so we can discuss a couple of jobs I have in mind for you", I said yes, got dressed went to work force center to do the needed tests and then sent an email for the initial job I had sent my resume for. Finally 20 minutes later I receive an email saying the position was filled, and my other questions on if they had jobs ignored so I asked again. Finally received an email stating "We have no jobs at the moment". I responded with "remember our phone conversation on my experience with agencies lying and me having my time and gas wasted. Final email "the interview has ben cancelled". LOLSo tired of the lies?recall reading something about Obama complainers on a thread about him extending unemployment past 26 weeks, (unfortunately I don't think I will benefit from an extension) but everyone was going on about people just need to get a job and scrub toilets and wash dishes and 'pull themselves up by their bootstraps' etc., and of course there was the gripe that unemployed just want to collect from the government, a lot were saying that there should not be unemployment, which makes no sense. Also some like to say they didn't collect unemployment but proudly worked 7 jobs, working 24 hours, sleeping behind each job so they would not be late (I'm exaggerating) but I have heard people who like to get props for not collecting unemployment. Whatever. That doesn't make you better than me.So what? I want my unemployment, I paid into it and I worked hard at a sh**y job I no longer have and I deserve that?compensation?while I look for another one. And need I remind them that you still have to get hired to scrub toilets, there's a line to do that too. I don't care what crap job it is, you still have to get hired there. And those same people saying go work at McDonald's wouldn't work their themselves. And unless McDonald's is handing out jobs with Quarter Pounders, I still have to apply, get called and get hired there too. I said this on the forum as well. The only people that think like that are making really good money and have for a long time.Even?fast food?places make you take tests these days which I find kind of odd.?Personally test which back in the day you never had to take.What everyone is forgetting though is that students usually live on their grants so that would be where the gas money comes from or their parents or even a part time job if they have one.When I was in school in 2010, the program was run by the state of California, so it was free out of pocket for myself and other students to attend who were looking for a new career or being retrained for a different career due to the mortgage companies laying everyone off.?So I was on unemployment while doing my?internship?and while going to school.?Loved the experience I picked up. Just sad that attorneys were not willing to pay as advertised and offered jobs at 8.50 an hour. SMH (shaking my head)I would never work free. If that was the deal when I went to college, I would have not graduated because I won't contribute to this modern slavery. It's just corrupt and wrong and they are taking advantage of people.?They get away with it, because people go along with it.I know you are supposed to appreciate things, but I feel it's much, much easier to do that when you are already in a halfway decent place. I have friends online and off who are always singing praises to Jesus and saying God is Good but most say it after they get something or something went right. After being unemployed for months you aren't waking up screaming God is Good, at least most people aren't. Yes, you woke up, but still.Hey Shingami - Of course it's easier, much easier to praise God and shout for joy when things seem to be going our way. That's only natural. I would think you wouldn't be human if you haven't ever wondered at some point where God could possibly be when you are going through 'hard' times. I would find it hard to believe that you haven't even screamed to heaven asking him, "Why me and why now?"?I'm learning that the path of faith with Christ Jesus (Romans 10:9) will take me to hard places and times where I will be tested and tried about the songs I have sang to God and about God. I will be tested to see if what I said I believe I still believe when He (being God) doesn't respond the way I (being not God) want Him to respond and on my time schedule. Habakkuk 3:17-18I'm coming to realize that hard times are opportunities to get to know God more intimately if I choose to. Psalm 119:71?The only other alternative is to become bitter and hard hearted.I must remind myself in these hard days that 1) God is good all the time, 2) God loves me and 3) God will answer me in His time and in His way. Hebrews 13:5, Jer.31:3If you recall in the Bible, the Lord Jesus Himself (in His human form) cried out on the cross, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46 Now He is seated on the right hand of God. Luke 22:69Everything you vent on here, you can safely and respectfully vent to God, knowing that He takes note of our every word and tear.Psalm 56:8BTW - Sometimes I think my case is hard but when I read some of the posts of here, dealing with illness, family issues in addtion to job hunting, it's heartbreaking. So I do keep everyone in prayer as I pray for myself - for God's continued grace and mercy.Thank you very much for your kind words and the words of Our Lord, it helped. And I do know that my situation isn't as bad as others, but it gets to me sometimes, I start to lose hope. It's depressing to think I can't even do a little bit better than I had previously, even one rung higher on the ladder. There are some good people in this forum and I wish us all best of luck and a good life.It's great to talk to people who know what you're going through, I appreciate everyone sharing their personal stories of failure and triumph. I hope one day I'm announcing I found a job, that will be a shocker. And that others will too.Its easier said then done sometimes and why does he let us get to the bitter and harden heart mentality ? When he can so easily come in and do what he has to do ??I keep asking God why have I been in a storm for 7 years now, enough is enough already.I agree with you on some things being heart breaking. I pray for everyone here as well.?I can't even watch the news when it comes to stories on?children?without crying, like little boy who was missing for 3 days and then suddenly found in the basement, they ever did air the out come of the story on where he'd been for those missing days, just strange.You said why does He LET us get to the bitter and harden heart mentality? He doesn't. Hebrews 3:7-19 We do it of our own volition because we refuse to believe in those dark, stormy situations that He is really working for our good and His glory.He is God and He is on His own schedule not ours. Just like?childrencannot tell their parents when it's time for them to get up and do something for them, neither can or should we. We would label those children as disrespectful and out of order. And we wouldn't think much of the parents either for allowing such behavior.Ok, you threw off on the children example because in todays society, kids do tell their parents to wake up and take them to school depending on the household. LOLI understand things have to happen on gods schedule and all but I just don't understand the suffering especially if he sees what's going on, and that is what is leading people to not believe and loose their faith. I haven't had an?apartment?and have been technically homeless since 2010.?In the state of California you can not rent an apartment if your receiving unemployment, apartment complex's will not rent to you, so it's either rent a room from a psycho which I wont do after my last 2 bad experiences or rent a?hotel?room which is still considered homeless because you cant use the address. Now that I will actually be on the streets as of next week, of course I'm wondering where is God in all this ? I'm just saying and mostly venting. I've been talking to my pastor and he seems to be lost as well in giving me nothing but silence when I question him. :)There needs to be a "Faith" forum on here :)Fight for your rights, I know that you already know that God knows that you have been in your storm for 7 years and that you feel like it's gotten old and you're ready to move on and up. But like He says, let patience have her perfect work and after you have suffered(been tested for a while), then He will straighten things out. 1Peter 5:10, James 1:4Do you remeber that Joseph was falsely imprisoned in the dungeon for over 10 years before God in His own time/purpose decided to release Him? Genesis 39-41I have just realized for me that God has to always bring me back to the place where I can honestly say or be made willing to say, "Not my will but Thine be done." Luke 22:42?For then, I am at peace about the matter, either way it goes because I am resting in His promise that He will take care of me. 1 Peter 5:7?Faith in God is no wimpy deal, but tough at times. John 6:26I know one good thing - you have a really good sense humor and it doesn't appear to be waning. LOLLOL :)?Yes, in deed I do! LOL?I think that's the only thing that is helping me keep it together besides reading the bible and prayer for understanding. :)Oh and big thanks for all the bible verses as well. :)The closest I could get to religion is along the lines of deism. A higher being made the universe, the laws of nature it operates by and just allows things to take it's course. Otherwise this higher being is not involved in the day to day operations of the universe. I for one find no comfort in the idea of a higher sentient being that allows things like this to happen to people to teach them a lesson, or worse yet as part of some deliberate plan for some "higher purpose." That would simply make us pawns in its game... It least with the "sh*t happens" theory I know its not personal....LOL @ Sh*t happens theory. Too funny.Sometimes I feel kinda like a pawn, I mean, I look at others who don't even believe and they have riches among all means, but then I think, ok, did they sell their soul for all the material things they have (like all the reality shows on TV with all these Very rich housewives etc) and it makes me wonder.?I know the person that I am, even if I had that kind of money, it would be going to getting homeless shelters build and getting doctors to volunteer once a month for medical reasons for these people and to set up a system to get the homeless back to working and productive members in society. A lot of the homeless are smart people, but have been forgotten by ourgovernment?system or family members.I suppose most people comfort themselves with the idea of some divine retribution. Hell, karma, being reincarnated as a lower being, etc. Me? Eh *shrug* It's a free country though so what ever gets people through the day.I so agree with that. Praise God for the good, blame the devil for the bad, but it's all coming from the PEOPLE here on earth! I think people who hold a great spirit so closely may be somewhat afraid of their own power. I believe in a higher power, but if you have good/bad, darkness/light, sadness/joy, men/women, yin/yang, I then can't wrap my head around ONE PERSON, a MAN, being in control of everything. No balance there, no reason. If you can believe in a book written 3000 years ago and it helps, I'm glad for you. But I have an old King James version from my childhood, before editors got hold of the Bible and made it more palatable to thegeneral?public. I find it to be the biggest purveyor of hatred and intolerance ever bound between 2 covers. But, as Ms. Doppelganger said, if it gets you through....With the King James version, you actually have a rather recent edition. King James was confronted with a dozen different "Bibles" during his time including the Tyndale, The Bishop's, the Cloverdale, the Catholic and the Sinai.In an effort to quell the differences between the Catholics and the Protestants, he decreed that there be only ONE Bible.Fat lot of good that did.Someone steals an apple and for that we have to go through all of this? That blows the Divine Intelligences theory for me right then and there.What a sorehead.It truly is all so bazaar. If I was going to make a race of people to control and I wanted them to behave, I wouldn't give them free will. BUT, I'm told, by my religious siblings, God wanted us to decide for ourselves. ExCUSE me, but if you give them free will, they're going to exhibit it, and your utopia goes down the drain. "There's a beautiful ripe apple on that tree, but don't eat it, K?". SERIOUSLY???He gives us Free Will but he sure gets upset when we?exercise?it.And as for omnipotent, you put the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden but you didn't see this coming? Please.I lost 10 manly points today, my friends. My mother came back from a meeting with a long term?healthcare?representative and told me that when she mentioned her 27-year-old son living with her, the rep' asked if she wanted to set up a special needs fund for me. When my mother explained my situation, the worker then asked if she had spoken with me about what would happen when she died.My manhood... :'(My brother lived at home well into his 30s, and I moved out at 27 myself. This is just how things are today.How about only using the words?entry level?for?ENTRY?LEVEL JOBS! I can't stand when I click on a job add with "entry level" in big bold letters only to find they want 1-2 years of experience. Guess what THAT'S NOT ENTRY LEVEL! Employers please stop wasting our time with misleading job titles. Entry level means no experience necessary. Has anyone else experienced this?Morning!?Here's a thought- Freewill doesn't mean you won't have boundaries. If you have kids and really love and care for them you will set boundaries for them to protect them, not to harm or hurt them. Will you be disappointed that they crossed the set boundaries and will you follow through with your prescribed consequences for such behavior or will you laugh it off and ignore it? If you are the parent, you should be looking out for your?childrennot helping them to harm/hurt themselves. Same with GOD. But if you want to go your own way, you can. Just remember, there are consequences. Check out Romans 1 for a start.?Most don't believe in God because they don't want to believe that they are accountable to anyone other than themselves. So, they think they can do, say and live any kind of way they want to, without consequences. Galatians 6:7-9Believing in God through Jesus Christ is a coping mechanism? It's the best method yet.Some prefer drugs, sex, money, anger at the world, oversleeping, stealing, gossip, overuse of psychiatry, TV, complaining, titles, etc for coping. And where do these methods get them? Jail, dead, broken, depressed, sick, lonely, more angry ......Except that my choice to have and raise children didn't come from a story in a book written thousands of years ago by people I don't know. I get that to accept that requires faith. But when they were handing out faith, I was in another line where they were handing out a conscience, and I live by that, instilled it in my kids, and will take it to my grave. Acceptance of other people's faith is part of that conscience. I have a Jehovah's witness brother who is SURE the rest of us are going to some fictional place called hell, mo matter how 'good' we are. A Mormon uncle and family tells me you have to be a Mormon to get to one of their "levels" of heaven. ISIL is willing to actually KILL people who won't cave in to their "faith". All radical versions of someone's truly honest belief. Everybody who insists their way is the only way will feel rather silly when they find we are all on different paths to the same destination.I guess $10 dollars is a gold mine if you are in a minimum wage job, maybe getting a 25 cent raise every 6 months. The biggest arrogance which I believe is also partly due to pure ignorance on the part of employers is that 10 bucks is barely a living wage.Around here, $10/hr?is not a living wage unless one has multiple roommates in a small place. For a few months I took a job that paid under $9/hr. It covered my mortgage and part of my utilities. Nothing else. Like the rest of my utilities,?food, gas, car repairs, etc, etc....Many professional jobs now do not offer benefits. So if you are working, you're supposed to be able to pay for any?healthcare?you need. It's truly a horrible thing.?$10 an hour is just horrible pay for anything. Yet, you see offices, medicine, you name it, paying people that wage.?Workers have nothing to bargain with now. Even our skills, talents, experience are negotiable to employers because they figure they can always find another person.?There are just too many people.Around here, $10/hr?is not a living wage unless one has multiple roommates in a small place. For a few months I took a job that paid under $9/hr. It covered my mortgage and part of my utilities. Nothing else. Like the rest of my utilities,?food, gas, car repairs, etc, etc....Many professional jobs now do not offer benefits. So if you are working, you're supposed to be able to pay for any?healthcare?you need. It's truly a horrible thing.?$10 an hour is just horrible pay for anything. Yet, you see offices, medicine, you name it, paying people that wage.?Workers have nothing to bargain with now. Even our skills, talents, experience are negotiable to employers because they figure they can always find another person.?There are just too many people.And by the time the employee pays for that stuff, they are out more than their paycheck. When that's the case, it is simply not worth my time andenergy?to get out of bed.Its a horrible job. I did it. I have a lot of sympathy for anybody who can do that well.Me too. I don't like dealing with the public anymore. Employers think all customers are legitimate in their complaints and there are some really crazy people out there who will go after you.?99% are good people, but it takes one complaint and they can cost you your job, even when they are wrong or complaining about something outside of your control.How right you are. These days if somebody doesn't like the color of thecashier's fingernails, they can go on line and rock her or his world! I do a lot of surveys and I'd NEVER go after the employees. I take the time to tell the COMPANY what's wrong with IT, and go out of my way to say their people are great. Even when they're having a bad day and maybe aren't so great. To do that job, all day, for that kind of nothing money, sorry, nobody should be allowed to complain about you. I've been complained about in my days as front line in a medical office. It is always guilty until proven innocent, boss always considers the patient/customer?is telling the truth. Even when they are so off base they're making crap up out of whole cloth. Like I said a while back on this forum, not a people person.I really miss the days of being able to apply for a job and starting the next day.?I had this night job doing?data entry?and we'd bring in our Walkman?s and the same cassette tape and we'd all put on our head phones and rock out to the B52's.?It was so funny, we'd be there sitting in our chairs swaying back and forth in our chairs to Rock Lobster. The supervisor would come by and start laughing and I'd let her listen in and she'd start dancing too. LOL?Man, I miss the those days when workers were appreciated and taken care of. :)Exactly, that's another reason I don't want to go corporate. I feel like it's just to much policy and politics and rules for no reason. Let people work and leave them alone. Workers are not appreciated, they are just seen as work mules and that's why you get what you get people running out at 5, not caring about what isn't finished, etc. or wanting to lend a hand. We could work with our headphones on at my old job, that was probably the only 'perk' we got.Exactly, that's another reason I don't want to go corporate. I feel like it's just to much policy and politics and rules for no reason. Let people work and leave them alone. Workers are not appreciated, they are just seen as work mules and that's why you get what you get people running out at 5, not caring about what isn't finished, etc. or wanting to lend a hand. We could work with our headphones on at my old job, that was probably the only 'perk' we got.Yes, it was the same way at UPS on employees being worked to death and a good 80% were all temps. They had us working 12 - 14 hours and not caring at all but when it time to go home, people would sneak out and go to the lunch room and wait out the time because there were two systems we had to fill out as far as time cards go.?Most of the nights it would be myself, another?admin?assist and a manager doing the clean up work that the crew left and didn't do, but after a few warnings, the managers just started getting rid of people and brining in new temps.Do you have anything resembling a?Labor?Board in Canada? That's where I'd send an anonymous comment.Sadly it's not a national?law?and varies state to state as I found out. I now work at a well known burger place on the overnight shift and we get no breaks. One manager is uptight about it and expects us to always be on,cleaning?or whatever while the other understands. Honestly it shouldn't even have to be a law, just basic human decency.While I'm glad to actually have a job, as sad as it is. This will lead to nowhere, so I need to keep searching just so I can hopefully get out of here and find something better.Wouldn't it be great to get a job you wanted? Maybe one day it will happen.That's all I think about since a lot of my friends and relatives like their jobs, knowing that actually gives me more stress because all I did was watch the clock my whole life--worrying about Monday, thinking about Friday, thinking about 5:00 p.m.. And getting paid nothing on top of that and being worked to death. I will take a job that is tolerable paying something decent. If I could get at least $14- $15 an hour I'd think I was rich. I can't get past $11 for nothing. It's depressing because I feel like such a failure, I'm taking some?computer?courses, but I need to go back to age 20 and start all over again, lol.For me, honestly I don't know what I would do differently. Maybe I would have been able to go and finish?college?before the great recession. Maybe knowing my major is a deadend unless I was extremely lucky I would go into the science/engineering?programs. Even though I have no interest in them and it's not my strongest point. But I am a hard worker and would study my ass off so I would do decently.It just really does suck. First in my family to go to and finish college. Not just barely graduate but do so with honors. But where I am at now I do feel like such a failure even if nobody says so to my face. I felt like a worthless bum when I was jobless. It's just a miserable feeling all around. Even though I don't post much as others. I do browse here a lot and as horrible as it all is, it's kind of comforting I'm not alone and there are others struggling like me, from all walks of life.I would have become a nurse instead of staying in pharmacy as a technician. There are always job opportunities for nurses (atleast in my area) and that is not the case for pharmacy techs, the workload is outrageous and the pay...even after 20+ years I'm "lucky" to be making $13 an hour and with only part time status right now, I'm at the mercy of coperate cutting hours .After a family medical emergency I had to give up my last job, and it took me over 5 months to get this new part time position, so now I will have to work my butt off and wait for an opening just to get back to?full time?status. I am however greatful at this point to be getting back to work. It's terrible out there looking for work, with so many unemployed...and if you complain (no breaks), there are dozens of people just waiting to take your spot and these companies completely take advantage of that fact, and it doesn't look like the economy is going to be getting better anytime soon. My advise to anyone out there that has a job, hold on to it until you can get something better because any job, is much better then no job!Nursing: there are lots of openings, but they aren't all being filled. I know of many?hospital?units with 3, 4, or 5 openings for nurses ... but they aren'thiring?to fill them. It's much cheaper to stack the work load onto the current staff load. I interviewed for one position and was told my by 'spies' that 6 months later they still hadn't filled it. Also, medical assistants are being trained for clinic jobs that used to be RN positions. Much cheaper. It's tough all over.The only other jobs around where I live are truck?drivers. Whether or not they are actually?hiring?the nurses for the jobs posted I do not know, but if your not a nurse or a truck?driver?in ne pa- good luck finding work. It's crazy out there. Even 5 years ago finding a job was not nearly as difficult as today- and what the heck... Where did real paper job applications go? Everything is online now- taking away the chance of even making that important first impression!!Where did real paper job applications go? Everything is online now- taking away the chance of even making that important first impression!!It's to many job seekers now, they don't want to be bothered with the endless revolving door of people coming in asking for an application, unless they have them piled up on the counter. Even those kiosk job things were a pain, I remember using one for Blockbuster video (yes it was that long ago) and that application was over an hour long, I thought it would never end. for BLOCKBUSTER! Filling out paper applications gets old real fast. But I do recall doing it and handing it in and them reading it right then and talking to you and you possibly getting a job or interview on the spot.Online, all I want to do is email my resume, cover letter and hit send. Or at the very least fill out some things like name, phone, sex, ethnicity, etc. I'm not interested in over an hour for every job I apply for, when not one will call back anyway. Makes me want to shoot myself.It's to many job seekers now, they don't want to be bothered with the endless revolving door of people coming in asking for an application, unless they have them piled up on the counter. Even those kiosk job things were a pain, I remember using one for Blockbuster video (yes it was that long ago) and that application was over an hour long, I thought it would never end. for BLOCKBUSTER! Filling out paper applications gets old real fast. But I do recall doing it and handing it in and them reading it right then and talking to you and you possibly getting a job or interview on the spot.Online, all I want to do is email my resume, cover letter and hit send. Or at the very least fill out some things like name, phone, sex, ethnicity, etc. I'm not interested in over an hour for every job I apply for, when not one will call back anyway. Makes me want to shoot myself.I remember those days too... Long gone unfortunately:(?I know exactly what you're talking about with the hour long online applications and all the 'personality tests'. I remember doing one for Michael's crafts and another for a dollar?general?job.?Lol, I never heard from either of them, then found out you are suppose to answer either strongly agree or strongly disagree (anything in between is apparently not what they are looking for) so essential be a robot.?As incredibly frustrating as it is, just know there is something out there for you and you WILL find it!I miss the days when you could just have 1 or 2 resumes tailored to the jobs/industries you were looking for. You only really needed to spend time crafting your cover letter, if they even asked for it. It was much easier to apply for multiple jobs. I hate the fact that now you're expected to craft each resume to each individual job ad. Not only does this increase the chances of creating and missing a typo/grammar error (because nowadaysHR?has no issue with throwing out a plumber's resume because he misplaced a comma) but it eats up so much time. Where I use to be able to apply to 6-10 jobs in a day, I'm lucky if I can send out resumes for 5 jobs... And the libraries in Philly only allow you 30 minutes on the?computer?for one day.I miss the days when you could just have 1 or 2 resumes tailored to the jobs/industries you were looking for.... Where I use to be able to apply to 6-10 jobs in a day, I'm lucky if I can send out resumes for 5 jobs... And the libraries in Philly only allow you 30 minutes on the?computer?for one day.Exactly! and some make you craft one by wanting you to answer specific questions they give you. "Why do you want to work here?" "Name 1 thing you learned this week" (yes I saw that asked) I have a default cover letter and copy it and then tweak it to a degree and re-save it and send it. If they ask for to much I don't bother because 10/10 I'm not getting the job. If I have 100% of what they are looking for and feel I would have a shot, I do it. But overall, it's just to time consuming when I *MIGHT* have a chance. I've seen requests for: resume, cover letter, references, salary history, start date. Good grief, and of course you never hear back.I been thinking about applying for a truck?driver?job. I know one company that has paid training fordriving?a big rig. A lot of people say get your license on your own and then go for a company that pays better than the company that is willing to pay for your training but at this point, if a company is willing to pay for my training, it sounds good to me.I don't blame you one bit, hey especially in this economy, if a company is willing to pay you while they train you...all the better! And if they don't make you sign a?contract, look at other places that pay better, see if or how much experience they want, and when you've got what the higher paying jobs are looking for- go for it. These big companies use us all the time- "burn them and turn them" I've heard used as an expression of working people so hard they burn out- then they get rid of that worker- and the company is certainly not losing sleep at night over it.?Best of luck to you!!?I don't blame you one bit, hey especially in this economy, if a company is willing to pay you while they train you...all the better! And if they don't make you sign a?contract, look at other places that pay better, see if or how much experience they want, and when you've got what the higher paying jobs are looking for- go for it. These big companies use us all the time- "burn them and turn them" I've heard used as an expression of working people so hard they burn out- then they get rid of that worker- and the company is certainly not losing sleep at night over it. Best of luck to you!!Wow and I thought UPS was bad.?They would do the same thing, I know a couple of workers told me that had been working 17 - 18 hour shifts before I came and a lot of people were getting burned out and quitting. And your right on company attitude because management didn't care, they'd just request more temps.?I have to go through my emails now to see if I can find that trucking company :) LOL?Oh and thanks for the tips re: if no contract etc etc. :)I applied to a job with a company back in March and they JUST got back to me a week ago. I was thrilled so I prepared and was ready for the 15 min phone interview. We talked for 30 mins and I felt great about it. I knew I was qualified for the position and that it was a company I wanted to work for (or so I thought). She just got back to me today saying that they will not be able to go forward with my application.God damn it. It's just so discouraging and people tell me I need to just be strong and positive, but I don't know how much more rejection I can really take.?A...so fresh, so young! It brings back memories!On another note, that's VERY common nowadays. There are just too many others competing for the exact same position. The chances of beating out the competitors is very difficult because many do have the exact experiences the company is looking for. So, it really comes down to who is the "best of the best."Many recruiters/hiring?managers/HR?will not tell you why you didn't pass the phone screening. Sometimes you can figure it out on your own (ie. bad answers). Other times, you may think your answers are great, but the other candidate's answers are superb. At the end of the day, if it really bugs you, you should email whoever you phone interviewed with, but good luck.Job-seeking is a very frustrating and depressing process. Good luck...Job-seeking IS like dating XD. Aww...I just realized that I'm unloved in this sort of dating game. </3Riddle me this.........What is the purpose of employers asking you the salary your looking for ? Is it to separate the applicants asking for higher salaries from the applicants asking a lower wage regardless of skills ?My dad always said "You get what you paid for". LOL?I'm hoping one of these days, employers will realize thisJust wondering if its some kind of trick.They are definitely trying to gauge the lowest pay you would accept for the job, always make your offer atleast a dollar or two more then you would accept because 9 times out of 10 they will counter offer that much below what you state. Example in a recent interview when I was asked I said $15. They countered at $13. Had I gone in saying $13 I'm sure they'd have said how about $11... Even when they want you, they always want you at the cheapest amount they can get away with paying you!!On the other hand, when I got my last job, I wasn't their first choice. I was the low bidder. I found this out a few weeks after I was hired.Yes, these companies really have the upper hand on the unemployed right now:( Sometimes you don't get any say on salary when you need the job badly enough, I was lucky, it was only because of my experience and certification in my field that I knew my worth and they knew I'd be valuable to them. It's extra difficult trying to get work if you don't have a specific 'field' you're in. Then they have complete control...it's not right and it's not fair how poorly these companies treat those looking for jobs, but, they just don't care- it's so much about their bottom line and staying on budget so the?CEO's can get their millions every yearTurns out I have to be out of my friend's place by Nov 7th because his father will be staying with him for a couple of weeks and then they're going out of town for a couple of more weeks.... My temp gig also ends on the 21st of the same month.... I've posted an status update on my Facebook profile asking if anyone would be willing to let me crash. Of course crickets.....As I've said, all the non-shady rentals want too much up front. I could rent a room on a weekly in a shady part of town right next to the elevated train line but as soon as my savings run out I'm completely sh*t of luck...FML.....Hi?See that was the killer for me on FB. All of friends (well I thought they were friends) know that Ive been looking for work and only one contacted me giving me info. I applied but was declined with the typical "we went with another candidate" bs.They all know going through rough times but its like my status on FB is falling on blind eyes, they just dont care. Id get the ocassional "I will pray for you,", but thats it. Even family members turn ther back, its all about " the money" to them. I just laugh it off and remember all the times Ive helped them when they were in need.I'm thankful for the "count on fingers" true friends that do always come through for me though, without them, I dont know where I'd be.I hear you fight, I found out quickly who my real friends were when I was unemployed as well. I was quite shocked and disappointed in some people I'd known for many many years who just turned their backs and walked away. It hurt and it sucked. But you know what? I found out who my REAL friends were!! And was able to connect with people on sites like this where others understand what you are going through and we will all remind you on here to hang in there, and support you when you're feeling down and be happy for you when you do find something, because you will!!!!I've been wondering if Facebook is really doing anyone any good besides Mr. Zuckerberg? I don't have a facebook?account, never did, and with prospective employers feeling perfectly comfortable spying on your personal life any way they can, I'm sure I never will. I know you can set your profile to private and all that, but my younger son's charity has tons of followers, and as with Ms. Doppleganger's fundraisers, they scatter like rats deserting a sinking ship, when a show doesn't do well and he tries to match the donation total online. I do look at FB, occasionally, through his page, and I see a lot of bullsh*t artists going on at great length about how wonderful their life is, when I KNOW the contrary is true. Guys claiming to be struggling at work for their?children?whom someone else is raising. Women claiming to be happy joy with hubbie and kids, when the kids are being raised by someone else and the husband doesn't want kids. I agree with the 'count-on-fingers' true friends approach. You know who they are when you truly need something. And everybody else is full of it.?I have a question... Is it normal for recruiters to call you and then call you again like 30 min later...leave me no message since they already left one...and speak at a million miles an hour so you can barely understand a word they are saying. This happened to me yesterday. I applied at a job that said apply with your indeed resume so I did. Then I immediately got a call from a person that I knew was a recruiter so I let he phone ring to hear what they had to say in the vm. This guy was foreign so of course it was hard to understand him anyway BUT he was speaking so fast it was like hearing this one teacher from a saved by the bell episode who talked at the speed of light lol.And also, why even have recruiters at all? Why can't frickin companies call you if they're interested or email you? Is this only for temp positions im assuming?Does anybody else wonder why the foreign individual with little-to-no-command of the English language has a job - COMMUNICATING - and so many of us don't? Even in THIS country, nevermind outsourcing hell.Since it's computers that read resumes, not people, PLEASE note that you must rewrite your resume to fit EVERY job ad precisely. We're talking exactly fitting the words themselves from each & every ad into your resume. "Cut&Paste is your best friend" (workshop @ Ohio Means Jobs) if you want the receiving?computer?to spit out your resume when thebusiness?hits the "print" button for the resumes to consider for a job. No wonder some jobs post repeatedly intermittently for the same jobs. Weirder & weirder.Yeah...maybe I should have been a stripper, LOL! Seriously, so many people out there are completely clueless to economic realities. I have a hippie friend who rails against 'corporate America', explaining that he's too ethical to ever work for a soulless corporation. Like people have a CHOICE? Mr. Hippie has ultra-rich parents and a multi-million dollar trust fund. So he's FREE to rail against corporate America all night long, then sleep till 4 pm. He literally does not understand that most people HAVE to work for a living.Your friend is NOT a "hippie." I speak as a genuine 1960s relic. Popular myth has demonized "hippies" for decades until all we are perceived is dope smoking idiots when we were actually all about question authority & bring social justice to the entire world, the antithesis of what a?government"of the rich/by the rich/for the rich" would want. Hence the dumbing down of the American?education?system since the 1970s. I wince everytime I read or hear the popular misrepresentation of my generation. Like Aldous Huxley instructed, if any idealogy threatens those in control, just ridicule it. Then people will be too embarrassed to consider it seriously. Bet Brave New World isn't regularly on a curriculum anymore. Whatever happened to "Occupy . . ." after infiltrated by paid disruptors?What's disheartening is how many "colleges" sucker people into taking classes for the same kinds of ancillary basic pay jobs knowing that there aren't that many job opportunities for those certified/graduates, & w/a glutted employee market, the pay keeps reducing. I got an?AssociateDegree in a job, low pay/high responsibility, & NO respect for the degree since nearly all the other employees were/are still trained on site (veterinary technology). The?college?REALLY misled our class w/$ statements but for me, mainly, that veterinarians were EAGER for us & oureducation/skills. I hear that in human medicine, expect burn out, & a lot of the office positions are filled by volunteers, not paid staff, in hospitals where there were once livable wages.Actually, I would like to get back into writing anyway. That would be my dream job, to be like Stephen King. But I have been thinking about writing a book where a couple of the main characters lose their job and it basically ruins their lives and we go through them interviewing and how they're treated and overlooked and the slow progression that takes on their lives, body and soul. When I'm really depressed I want to pour all that into a story, but I just can't get writing.What's disheartening is how many "colleges" sucker people into taking classes for the same kinds of ancillary basic pay jobs knowing that there aren't that many job opportunities for those certified/graduates, & w/a glutted employee market, the pay keeps reducing. I got an?AssociateDegree in a job, low pay/high responsibility, & NO respect for the degree since nearly all the other employees were/are still trained on site (veterinary technology). The?college?REALLY misled our class w/$ statements but for me, mainly, that veterinarians were EAGER for us & our?education/skills. I hear that in human medicine, expect burn out, & a lot of the office positions are filled by volunteers, not paid staff, in hospitals where there were once livable wages.You're on?fire, pebcl! So true. I just completed a course in medical coding and found it is impossible to be able to even APPLY for a job in that field without 2-3 years experience. And those volunteers? This forum is full of people who volunteered because they believed what the unemployment office told them about volunteering and then that company will hire you! Didn't happen. Companies get free?labor?- the volunteers get zip. Welcome to the new millenium.Oh wow, kinda like "Nickle and Dimed" Actually, I would like to get back into writing anyway. That would be my dream job, to be like Stephen King. But I have been thinking about writing a book where a couple of the main characters lose their job and it basically ruins their lives and we go through them interviewing and how they're treated and overlooked and the slow progression that takes on their lives, body and soul. When I'm really depressed I want to pour all that into a story, but I just can't get writing.I was thinking more non-fiction, so that the word gets out to employed people and everybody who believes the news when they say unemployment is down and don't bother to mention that's because people have been kicked off the unemployment rolls. The book "The Help" was written by a writer and compiled of individual chronicles by a town full of black maids. It was a group effort, presided over by the author. But nothing was made up.What's disheartening is how many "colleges" sucker people into taking classes for the same kinds of ancillary basic pay jobs knowing that there aren't that many job opportunities for those certified/graduates, & w/a glutted employee market, the pay keeps reducing. I got an?AssociateDegree in a job, low pay/high responsibility, & NO respect for the degree since nearly all the other employees were/are still trained on site (veterinary technology). The?college?REALLY misled our class w/$ statements but for me, mainly, that veterinarians were EAGER for us & our?education/skills. I hear that in human medicine, expect burn out, & a lot of the office positions are filled by volunteers, not paid staff, in hospitals where there were once livable wages.I think that colleges and universities stay in?business?by lying to students about the supposed benefits of a 'degree'. Trade schools routinely claim that 90% of their graduates find jobs in their field. This cannot be true. I wonder what the actual employment rate is for trade school graduates?I went to an expensive 4-year university. The teachers told us: "You can never be poor if you have a college degree". Oh, really? I'd like my tuition back!lolol @ wanting your tuition back. I do believe universities and colleges lie about the greatness of a degree. Unless it's very specialized (doctor, lawyer, nurse, teacher, etc) then you won't have it easy. The bad thing is that they are right in that employers want to see "college graduate" no matter what the job is--unless you know someone. My cousin got a job in ahospital?with no college degree or prior experience in the position.certificate schools are worse, unless it is a trade to be an?electrician?or something. commercials like ITT make you believe you can stop tending bar and end up in a fortune 500 company managing somebody. The majority is selling the dream to students who see themselves being successful at the end. There was a girl temping on our?law?office inaccounting?and I found out she had an MBA. They didn't keep her on and she said she was going to pursue using that degree, but she didn't need to be temping with an MBA. That's the reality after a lot of graduations.A lot of the specialized professions are becoming saturated as well... Lawyers, nurses, pharmacists..all having a hard time finding jobs.I mentioned teachers and should know that that is not a sure thing like it used to be too. I thought about that after I wrote it. Sad that teaching was a fool proof profession too. I still don't think nurses will ever have a problem, but they will always be under valued, although some make very good money. I thought about nursing, but that was when I was about to graduate and had a panic attack because I had no degree in anything remotely usable and had nothing to look forward to after graduation. But I knew I wasn't going back to school and start over for nursing.Nurses may actually have difficulty getting jobs. I recently spoke to a nurse with 15 years experience and gets shut out by new grads hired at much less money. Unemployment is running out for him. A NURSE. Preparing to live in his car.So I'm filling out online applications for a bunch of 24 hour pharmacy locations in Philadelphia in an attempt to get an weekend/evening?part-time that will allow me to continue looking for a work a day time job in my desired field.I really hate the "why do you want to work for [insert chain store]?" question.?Hm...why would I want to sell my soul and become a emotional and verbal punchi....eerr I mean?customer service rep?for some chain store? I donno? Because I need the money!? Why the f**k else would someone put up with that sh*t?!It's disgusting how much trash is involved in raising young?children?nowadays. They only use it for a few weeks or months then it's thrown out. A lot of the time it's still perfectly good stuff that just needs to be cleaned up a bit before donating.And smart people do just that. Clean it up and re -use. My daughter-in-lawand my son have guardianship of her grandson, and he has more toys and clothes than any 10 kids combined from yard sales. Good things, some didn't even need laundering. Strollers, car seats, wagons. When he grows out of them, she passes them on. Of course he also has 'new' clothes and toys, birthdays, Christmas, but re-purposed is so much more economical when possible. Harder to find now that he's no longer a baby.There is a variation on the theme that I am familiar with: Medi-caid?Assisted Living. The "kids" drop off senile Mom and Dad at some posh assisted living facility and pay the first few months of care.After that, they are never seen again. The name and address are bogus. The assisted living facility has to transfer them to Medi-caid?housing?and they don't have to go through the bureaucracy that everybody else has to endure.The sad thing is that sometimes that is the only way to get care for someone. I know someone who dropped their sick brother off at the homeless shelter because the VA couldn't get their act together. 2 days later he was finally getting taken care of. It had been a five year battle before that.Woah! I didn't know you could transfer a Section 8 app from one state to another. And, yeah, the income requirements are kind of crazy. I worked with someone who quit her job because they started giving her too many hours. The subsidies were worth more than she could earn even working full-time.Another friend quit her job to qualify for senior?housing. Once you secure anapartment, you can start making money again, but you have to be below a certain income to start. She got her job back afterwards.I don't see how this state can sustain all of the subsidized housing long term. So. ME has turned into a real have/have not place. You're either one or the other or you can't afford to live here.California is the same way. You are either rich or you are poor there.I really hate the "why do you want to work for [insert chain store]?" question.?Hm...why would I want to sell my soul and become a emotional and verbal punchi....eerr I mean?customer service rep?for some chain store? I donno? Because I need the money!? Why the f**k else would someone put up with that sh*t?!I hate that too, some turn it into an essay with 2-3 questions. They really want you to kiss their a** and go on about how much working for them has been your life goal since you could walk. I don't give a sh*t about your company, I just want a job. And it's usually the most crappy jobs that ask this that make you feel even more dumb answering. 'Why do I want to be the Perfume counter girl for $8.00 an hour? OH let me count the ways!' Really?Not necessarily. I'm neither. If you have a job, you can sustain life in this state. It gets rough on unemployment, but I made it for almost a year. I only did?food?stamps for 2 months, (the only time in my life), and with an attitude like our ass clown of a governor, it's hard to get any assistance. But I did make it, start a new job on Monday, and truly don't consider myself a "Have". I've been here for 32 years.Are you sorry you had to ever take food stamps? Because I hope you're not. If you need it and it's there and you can get it, then take it. I just can't stand how people treat others who end up needing?government?assistance. We were on food stamps when I was young, in grammar school and even H.S. for a while, it wasn't until H.S. that people I knew didn't care anymore. But I remember never wanting to shop with my Ma if she made me buy something at the store and I had to use food stamps, I hated it. Now I feel bad I hated it so much.When people glow that they never took assistance I want to kick them, well good for you! STFU. It does not make anyone less of a person to do it. I learned that as I got older. Actually, I'm thinking about applying for them myself. Not sure if I can do it on unemployment. They truly want you lower than low, even lower than unemployment to qualify.Hey, anybody got any advice on someone wanting to leave their job, but can't find any jobs on the job market that they are qualified for that's related to what they want to do?PS: The job market is WAY worse than you think, than we all hear about. We've all had problems with stupid interview questions, applying over and over to jobs we ARE qualified for, with experience and?education, and they STILL blow us off. I've seen a trend in companies filling their open positions with the cheapest?labor?they can get. With 17 years medical office experience, I was replaced by a waitress. NOT trashing waitresses, I can't begin to do what they do, but she had never even used a?computer. She was willing to accept 4 bucks an hour less and part time. And that, boys and girls, is what gets you the job. How much you're willing to put yourself out for THEM!Meh, this is employment now. Either you have coworkers trying to replace you, managers trying to replace you, or people drooling over your job and offering themselves up for very low pay to replace you.?It's ridiculous.Does it ever seem like the career centers don't really do anything that someone can't do on their own with job-seeking?They're a waste o' time and will keep that carrot out in front of you.?When you can't figure out the magic riddle, they will say you don't want to "find your path" or you don't want to be successful.So many people are hurting so much. Just getting the life sucked out of us. Then I see all of the people buying new homes, new cars, planning vacations. You know, the people who have job security and never give losing their job a thought. It truly amazes me. How can things be so polar? I've spent the last years just trying to stay employed. Yet, for so many, it's all about what their "passion" is, or what they are "interested in", and they find employers who want to indulge them.One of my cousins lived up in Maine and applied for Section 8?housing. Four years later she gave up and moved to another state for a better job. A month later she was notified that her application for Section 8 housing had been approved. Apparently, you can transfer Section 8 housing to your new state. After one year she was notified that she earned too much at her almost minimum wage job and was kicked out of the program.I am beginning to see why some people "game" the system by having 12 kids by 5 or 6 different baby daddies. Every single time I walk by the low income section of town I see a ton of baby stuff waiting on curb for trash pickup.If people are really having lots of babies to get welfare, that is SO wrong! I know I'm not able to support myself, so I made the decision never to have kids. It does seem like single, childless people are discriminated against in the tax code, the welfare system, etc. People who are responsible don't get any reward for it.I know this is a huge debate issue--do welfare mothers have more kids to get more welfare? I wonder what the true answer is.If people are really having lots of babies to get welfare, that is SO wrong! I know I'm not able to support myself, so I made the decision never to have kids. It does seem like single, childless people are discriminated against in the tax code, the welfare system, etc. People who are responsible don't get any reward for it.I know this is a huge debate issue--do welfare mothers have more kids to get more welfare? I wonder what the true answer is.And you are SO correct about being discriminated against, particularly by the tax system. Even when I had kids to support, I thought it was so unfair that we got a tax break, but people struggling on their own get zip. Even if you don't have kids, you get a better tax rate if you are married than single people do. That's so wrong on so many levels. Flat tax. Me, you, Donald Trump, Warren Buffet, all at the same rate....no loopholes, no rich people tax shelters. Yeah what a lunatic you are considered to be if you favor THAT!That is so deceptive. People deserve to know what they're getting into. When I hear the term 'subsidized?housing', I'm also confused. Is that the some as Section 8?I went to a tough district in S.F. and they announced that they were building 'affordable housing' there. That sounded like a good thing. But before I sign on, someone please tell me if it's the same thing as 'the projects'!I was almost raped/carjacked/robbed/murdered in the Bayview District. I won't be living there no matter how 'affordable' the housing is.Don't drink the Kool-Aid. "Affordable Housing" is the politically correct term for "projects". Would you ever be interested in "Low Income Housing", if they called it that?I turned down a job in San Francisco once because I would have had to live out of a shopping cart had I taken it. SF is one of THE most expensive cities in the world.Sigh I wish everyone on here the best of luck with getting a job. I have been out of work since august because I was let go for no reason even though I asked for a specific reason tons of times. My state is an at will state and they used that against me by saying they didn't have to give me a reason. I worked very hard to get that job only to lose it in less than a month :(I was shedding tears earlier because I just want to support my husband and I and keep our?apartment. We worked so hard to get this place and the last thing we want is to move yet again. Im so scared. I just want to make a living and pay bills :(Once again, good luck everyone. I know hard it is out there. I have gone on several interviews since being let go and have gotten almost nowhere. Now I am to the point where I will take just about anything to have a job and some income even though my last job paid a little over 11.Ok so get this. I got hired. I was all excited, get to orientation today and they have all of us sign a paper saying that we're acknowledging that this is seasonal". We didn't apply for seasonal. So now they're doing the old bait & switch with jobs. This is going to be a huge waste of my time. I'm going to make the best of it and hope they hire me permanently, but how annoying! When I applied, I applied for permanent. Why would I a 37 yr old woman, need to work for 2 months? What reason? I'm not in school yet. What a freakin' blow. Unbelievable that a big name Manhattan company that has been a staple of retail for years, would feel the need to deceive to get seasonal workers. The post on their website didn't say seasonal,contract?or temporary at all.And then there's the opposite problem... I get absolutely no response from?customer service?type jobs, because my work history marks me as an educated tech worker.Probably afraid you'll leave when something better comes along. The stupid thing is that traditionally that's what retail jobs basically were. Back in the day most?hiring?managers for these positions knew that most people would be leaving within 2-4 years. Now they expect people to make a career out of N also says unemployment is down. Everybody says that. Oh yeah, and the economy is improving.To be fair, it's not like CNN is making up numbers. The Bureau of?Labor?Statistics shows that statistically, all 6 measures of unemployment (each level has different definitions of "unemployed") have dropped in the last year.news.release/empsit.t15.htmI know, right? For better or worse, the U-3 rate is what we use as the "official" rate, but it's not like the U-6 rate isn't published and freely available. Also, many people still seem to think that the unemployment rate is determined by counting up everyone that receives unemploymentinsurance. It's not; the numbers come from the Current Population Survey.Many people also think that the Unemployment Rate (however it is counted) is somehow a measure of how well the economy is doing. Its not. Not according to my Econ 101 teacher.The question is why is it counted at all. We had to write a paper on it.Well, in a macro sense, where all you care about is GDP growth, you're right. GDP can increase without employment if you increase productivity or automation. That said, for most of history, economic growth and employment have been linked. It's natural to think that if the economy is doing well, you can find a job, but if it's doing poorly, you might not be able to. Looking at the situation in another way, if we find a way to keep a good standard of living for everyone and maintain equity in the political system, who really cares if people work? I don't think we will anytime soon, but it's good to realize that people don't really want "a job." What they want is to do something meaningful with their lives and live a good lifestyle.I think there is another part to this whole mess. For a period of time (for the sake of argument let us say the late '40s through perhaps the early '70's), the jobs which were created actually paid a living wage and had real benefits (health?insurance, company retirement plans for example) and were?full time. One person could find work and actually support a family, buy a house and a car.Now, many of the jobs being created are low pay and part time with no benefits. Sure, more people may well be employed, but they are also ongovernment?assistance.I agree. And long ago, people could change jobs if they didn't like something about their job. Now, it's one job if you get one, and it's very hard to leave if you hate it.?I don't get the disparity though. There seems to be a lot of people who are able to find jobs based on their "passion" or what "interests" them. Look on these forums. You see people who have gone for degrees then turn around and want to do something else more inline with what they think turns them on. I get the feeling a lot of them think an employer will do headstands over what they are "interested in" or what they like. I wonder if they are getting jobs...?Another inconsistency is all of the people out there who don't sweat their jobs or have security. They get a job and buy a home or a new car. The people who, instead of saving, will go on a vacation or buy new?furniture.?I don't get it. I have never felt secure like that in any job I've had, no matter how busy I am. I am competent, but we all know that doesn't buy you any favors at work anymore.I've been looking for a job for 2 months, it's terrible.But lately I've been doing online stuff for cash getting 30$ a day to survive. It's not the best.. but you gotta do what you gotta do. :/This country keeps letting people in, and keeps giving anyone from another country free?healthcare, all they can eat style. Benefits and money just get handed over, but if you have worked and paid into the tax system, you're lucky if you can get unemployment.?I think there is another part to this whole mess. For a period of time (for the sake of argument let us say the late '40s through perhaps the early '70's), the jobs which were created actually paid a living wage and had real benefits (health?insurance, company retirement plans for example) and were?full time. One person could find work and actually support a family, buy a house and a car.?That's very true, also there were more jobs to be had and just about anyone could qualify or at least people were given a chance. Someone could just walk into a deli and ask about the dishwashing or?cook?job and the manager would give him a chance, not interview him 3 times, call references to see how fast he washes dishes, give him 8 tests then reject him.Once computers came into the picture that cut a lot of people OUT of the picture. Not that there weren't skilled?labor?jobs then, but computers and technology put a new spin on the job market, and we know that instead of having 5 people doing 5 jobs, they want one person at a?computer?doing 5 jobs. And now with 500 people for every 1 job opening companies can be picky and nasty and make you jump through hoops to get that crap job.Job training is gone, they want you literally running in the door and getting it all in a few hours of training, not even a day anymore and up to speed. I see jobs listed going on about what they expect and what you need to know and then they list this job offers no benefits and pay is $9 an hour. I actually saw that! This what we are jumping over hoops for today? And we take it because there ain't nothing else and we've been hoop jumping for 9 months already. It's truly a sad, scary state now.Every now and then we read an online story bout someone who quit a great job to do something totally different, their passion for example. And everything is working out for them. You read the inspiring article thinking that is the norm. Truth is, that is the minority...prob less than 1 percent of the population.I would love to expose the Temp Agencies, all their tricks, scans and lies.?I bet we'd have a best seller too. LOL :)We have Section 8 here in Chicago. As someone said, it's really "Affordable?Housing" but I can't think of what they changed it to, as we can't call it Projects anymore. They tore all ours down and all those people got Section 8, I had a friend get a house in the suburbs. We had a few families on my block but I don't live in burbs. They do better than me! I don't want to complain because a lot of those people were struggling and wanted to get out and some just didn't know how, and of course some don't care and want to live in squalor.I'm not sure how long the wait time is, but you can get a job and buy your own house in 10 years.Yeah we have section 8 here in southern California, but it' no longer called that, it's more like "Affordable living" but you can still ask for a Section Eight application. LOLAnd the houses and apartments are usually (well some of them) are in a nice area too.?Just gets me on how illegals can qualify for it and move in right away and US citizens have to wait a good 6 months to three years. I'm on a couple of housing list and my wait is 3 years. By then I'll be in a senior?apartment, but even they are running high these days. The lowest I found so far is $850 and I believe it's without utilities. :(Yes they do, I had to wait until I received my very last unemployment check before re-applying for food stamps and medical. Just sad on how people are treated especially US Citizens vs illegals, it's like our government gives them everything, I just don't get it. Citizens have to jump through hoops to get food stamps and any other assistance, and if you apply for GR (General?relief) you have to be completely broke and then they will give you $300 a month and place you in a?janitorial?job making $1.35 an hour to pay them back the money they gave you. Just a sick and twisted system that they have set up out here in So CA.Yes they do, I had to wait until I received my very last unemployment check before re-applying for?foodstamps and medical. Just sad on how people are treated especially US Citizens vs illegals, it's like our?government?gives them everything, I just don't get it. Citizens have to jump through hoops to get food stamps and any other assistance, and if you apply for GR (General?relief) you have to be completely broke and then they will give you $300 a month and place you in a?janitorial?job making $1.35 an hour to pay them back the money they gave you. Just a sick and twisted system that they have set up out here in So CA.I agree. Most people don't see this until they lose a job, lose?healthinsurance, or wind up working in the midst of it.?It truly is frightening.?Those of us who are citizens who have paid into the system get virtually no help.Thanks for the positive thoughts. Some days are positive. Others are full of panic.I just want to provide for my family. Nothing more. Nothing less.I agree totally, you should be able to get a job at company that's not going to take advantage of you that much. Come on, they are looking for upwards of a 50% paycut from previous job- if that's not trying to take advantage of your being unemployed I don't what is- good for you for standing your ground at the 40% paycut- that sounds more then fair on your part, I'm hoping they reconsider and it works out for you! I know times are tough but these companies are using that to their advantage to the point of abuse now! Good luck to youSo many companies nowadays mean available and on-call 24/7 in order to get 20 hours a week at most when they say flexible hours.That's the way it is where I work. You have to have "Open Availability" or they won't consider you. This makes it difficult to put two part time jobs together.I overheard a conversation at a local Kohl's and apparently everyone working in the store has a?college?degree. One guy came out from the back of the store with a bunch of boxes and mentioned his BS degree in?Engineering?The economy is not doing as well as the official statistics suggest.I called one of the private emergency shelter organizations but they only take families. I was refered to a state office to register for other services. The moment I saw the proof of income requirement I knew I was out of luck. I'm going to wake up extra early on Monday to try to register and not miss more work. Perhaps I'll be pleasantly surprised but I have the feeling I'll fall through the cracks as always. I feel like I get penalized for trying to be responsible and resourceful dispute me falling on hard times.I just wanted to add that I feel that a lot of job seekers are doing all the right things. It's these incompetent employers that are doing the wrong things and not being held accountable for their actions.This is so true and I'm beginning to see it with my own eyes. Lots of disgusting, immoral, unethical creatures with good paying jobs.After 3 years of unemployment on zero income, WalMart called my son.....within HOURS of his checking the availability box that said 'overnight'! They passed on him with his degree and experience several times, but night shift?? Hell yeah! It's going ok, though. A guy with a degree and heavy experience in?education?is not likely to make a career out of stocking shelves, but it's money.You have to do what you have to do to survive. It sucks, it almost isn't even worth just surviving at that point. I'm stuck in the same situation and have no idea where to go from here. I need a miracle to happen for me to get a decent paying job at this point. Should I even think about going back to school, but for what?I called one of the private emergency shelter organizations but they only take families. I was refered to a state office to register for other services. The moment I saw the proof of income requirement I knew I was out of luck. I'm going to wake up extra early on Monday to try to register and not miss more work. Perhaps I'll be pleasantly surprised but I have the feeling I'll fall through the cracks as always. I feel like I get penalized for trying to be responsible and resourceful dispute me falling on hard times.That's the way the system was set up apparently. Years ago, I heard stories of families who made good money who spent it as it came in, did not keep savings. They were the ones who were able to get grants and loans when their kids went to?college. My folks, who did took the responsible route could not get a penny for me or my brother.The system highly encourages people to lie "game" the system to get help.They can't believe that employers will use the fact that had to take a fast-food,?housekeeping, or waitressing job against me. They still believe that to them it shows work ethic instead of being Otherwise unhireable. They also can't believe that emplyers drescriminate against the long term unemployed as much as they do. If omit my low level survival job I'll have to deal w that.They also keep pushing me to go into?customer?facing survive jobs just to take anything. First off, I can't live off those part time low paying wages. And it's next to impossible to make two part time gigs work to the employers unreasonable availability requirements. Second of all, I'm a dyed in the wool introvert in addition to currently being in a very bad way right now w my mental?health. I spent many years job hopping, taking sales and CRS jobs I knew I wouldn't last in out of desperation when I was younger, some times working two or more of them. I numbed myself w xanex pilfered from my friends and booze I technically I couldn't afford.Soon to be unemployed pet peeve. When people tell you to suck it up and just take anything knowing full well they'd never do it themselves. Do not ask of others what you wouldn't do yourself!I was reading that three of the fastest growing professions for non-collegegrads are:1.?Fast food.?2. Home?Health Care.?3. Prison system.My first job out of college was?cleaning?houses. I was another testament to the failure of higher?education.To my friends here on this forum, my pledge:?Now that I have a job, I will NOT become a "Person With A Job" and expect everything to go as well with everyone who hasn't found one yet, especially if they follow my pearls of wisdom to the letter. If you get my drift.I agree. I have had jobs off and on, and I know every job is just a stone's throw away from not having one!?We know how hard it is, and getting a job now isn't always the end to our problems.?So when I go for a job, I try to get as much money as I can. I used to think going for the lowest dollar would a)make me more desirable as a candidate and b)keep my job longer because I was cheap, but I found none of that to be true. I am not a good a**kisser, so I don't do well at securing myself in a job very well.I have enjoyed conversing and sharing on this forum with you all even when we didn't see eye to eye on some topics. Your frankness and transparency was, at times, very encouraging. I will never forget the "will bring brownies" interview answer. Liked it! That was funny and clever!Yes, GOD has blessed me with a new job! James 1:17All the best to you all and I will keep you in my prayers.James 1:here's no point in doing a follow up.?If they want you, they will call.?When they don't want you, they don't call.I agree. Any job I've ever gotten, I never called to follow up. In fact I never do.I never follow up, if they're that interested, they will contact me.Excellent benefits now nearly non existent; those costs have increased inbusiness; that's a kind of raise. You don't have to factor the costs of commuting to work. Everyone's workload everywhere keeps increasing w/one person assigned work once done my two people as if computerization somehow equals human physical effort required by most jobs. Do you actually LIKE your job, & do you work w/trustworthy/pleasant coworkers? Major benefit.Are your parents supportive at least? Hopefully they don't rag on you too much.They are, but they are rather ignorant to how hard it is to find a job and the lack of jobs in our area. My town is saturated by?college?students and college graduates. Hundreds are competing for one job opening.?They keep telling me to apply to service jobs (retail), because "you need to get your foot in the door and make connections." After spending a year in retail and finally getting out, I'd rather shoot myself than go back. I don't think I could handle one more bad?customer. I might end up strangling someone if I return to retail.When I was in retail, it got so bad that some days I ended up drinking before and after work. It was then that I knew I had to get out. It's not worth becoming an alcoholic over.Very true. The majority just don't understand that a lot of folks are just not cut out for public facing service jobs. It is not a character flaw or personal weakness. Our strengths just lie in other areas. Insisting that folks like us work these types of jobs is a disservice to the employee, the company and to the?customer?in the long run. The outcome will be miserable employee, lack of productive for the company and customers getting mediocre service.Where do people think this will end up??How will the great story end? Jobs have been leaving the US since the 1080s. More and more people come here every year, including the ones on visas and work permits. Our taxes support more and more people and programs. The cost of living is continually going up. More and more jobs are gone, part time, low pay, no benefits, or temporary.Our politicians keep running on the same old "more jobs" and "I was raised with a good work ethic" lines. But nothing changes. In fact, it gets worse.People talk about "being positive", but thinking good thoughts won't set the ship on the right course. It's not about wishingRight, I honestly can't stand all that positivity woo. All the happy thinking in the world isn't going to change sh*t unless it's backed up with action.These people just watch TV and believe the constant blathering on the news.?"The economy improved today with new job creation across the nation" blah blah blah blah.There seems to be a huge disconnect between job seekers and employers right now.Most employers don't feel there's enough qualified candidates out there and a recent Manpower survey confirmed that by finding out that a lack of 'technical competencies' was the biggest impediment to?hiring. Interestingly, job seekers don’t see it that way at all. More than half of the job seekers surveyed (55%) by Manpower felt that they weren’t getting hired because they were facing competition from too many qualified applicants.I had one contractor job and one temp job all of this year; it has been the most pathetic job search ever. And the worst part is employers are starting to adopt a common-place/comfortable attitude about candidate rejection. It's disturbingly bad and something has *got* to change.Ok, so I just read the manpower survey...there seems to be a fair amount of emphasis on a number of factors that without on-the-job training, in this rapidly changing marketplace, are going to cause some issues, combine that with the fact that employers want relocation/portability/foreign language skills/and professional certifications...(how much experience,? 3 years? ), the job market has been morphing at such a fast rate, ...seems obvious, their expectations are panies are drowning in a sea of qualified applicants so they make decisions based on weird things.Where my sister works, they can easily get 500 applications but there is still only one f**king job. Usually, they are looking for the cheapest candidate they can find but not always. Its the competition that is the killer here.Fair enough, I have choked on the seminars myself...sign-up and waste time on conflicting information, ...don't sign-up and be criticized for not doing everything you can to get-a-job! And worst, the people speaking are often delivering out-dated information!The biggest waste of time, I found, was all the stuff pushed heavily by the US Department of?Labor?Employment Office!!!It is that there are to many applicants, so they want to nitpick and you will never why they don't pick you. Sometimes it's obvious but I have been fully qualified and talked 5 minutes with 2 questions and then later get turned down and don't know what I said or didn't say. That is frustrating when I know I can do the job and then I get "someone more closer to our fit" really?No, they just want a 200% match and every skill in the world and someone willing to take $9 an hour for that job. I think a lot of jobs are filled too but the ad keeps running for weeks and weeks. Personality fit is Bulls#it because it's subjective. I've had interviewers act like they don't like me and I'm a loser and others say they like me and seem to genuinely think so. They just don't care cause they don't have to.You are right about ads running for weeks past, job-seeker sites use those to get more "fish", found one that was a company I was doing work for and asked if I could do that, the job was 7 months old and had been completed, the recruiter tried to get it taken down, but last I checked it was still there and showing as a current listing, it changes every few days to show a newer date!The biggest waste of time, I found, was all the stuff pushed heavily by the US Department of?Labor?Employment Office!!!SOOOOOOOOO True!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!More often than not these people in the DOL this is their first real professional job and they have been there for 20 years and have no clue about the real job world and private sector.On a side note, ever take note of their clothes they still have their wardrobe from the 70's. It's cute.What a waste of taxpayer monies.One of my most treasured memories of the mandatory monthly seminars at the unemployment office, in order to get your 300 bucks a week, is when we were all being coached on interviewing and we were told to have thank you notes and stamps in the glove box of our car, and upon exiting the interview, we were to quick address one and drop it in the nearest mailbox. I'll never forget, when asked if we had any questions, this grizzly older guy, weatherbeaten and rugged, just trying to get something, anything till he could get back to his trade, lathing, says quietly with a kind of whiskey-soaked voice, "I've never gotten a thank you note for putting in an application." The clueless moderator of the seminar was speechless, for a pletely out of the blue, some recruiter/agency I signed up with, oh, probably three or four years ago calls me up and asks me if I'm available.Sure, what's cooking?Send me an updated resume and I'll see if the client is interested.Great.The guy emails me back. Hey, it's a temp to perm and the last several people I've sent over have gone perm! And then he gave the hourly salary and what the perm salary might be.The hourly salary is what I was making at least 15 years ago. The bait was the perm salary wasn't too far south of my current salary. I'm sure.I'm not quitting a perm gig for a temp gig paying a lot less. And it looks like salaries are going down too. Brutal.Yes, I agree, too much competition, and $$$ is so important, save as much as you can, cause the so-called improvement in unemployment numbers is way off. Take a look at the free and reduced lunch numbers for schoolchildren?in your state, the numbers are sobering, ...There's so many people unemployed and in need of a job nowadays that employers don't have to invest in training if they don't want to. In fact, investing in training means spending even more money on someone. That's why it's better for them to hire as experienced as they can get. Someone who can come in, sit down and just do the job with virtually no instruction(s) as to what to do.All these employers nowadays want to be cheap while the cost of living keeps going up. People have lives to live and bills to pay and the money they earn helps keep many businesses doors open, especially smaller ones. Money makes the world go round and it helps make for a good, strong economy.But that's just it...with so wide a field of applicants to choose from they can GET the most experienced, and educated AND not pay them what they're worth. Because as you know from being on this forum, there are VERY well educated people with tons of experience either unemployed or way underemployed. It's the employer's ball right now. Eventually, the pendulum will swing the other way, hope I'm around to see that. In the 80's an employer really had to offer something to lure a person from the job everybody had.I can understand wanting someone who's most experienced but then you have to compensate that person appropriately.All these employers nowadays want to be cheap while the cost of living keeps going up. People have lives to live and bills to pay and the money they earn helps keep many businesses doors open, especially smaller ones. Money makes the world go round and it helps make for a good, strong economy.Nope, they do not have to compensate appropriately. They can do what they want because there is always someone who will work cheap.?There are also students and interns who will work for no pay so "they can get experience". So a job will just materialize just for them. This stuff is ruining everything.absolutely true. I saw it at my last job. They hired young and cheap and usually those people brought in people they knew, so the place was full of friends, cousins, nephews, etc. They thought asking for $12 an hour was like asking for $60 and that's sad. When I first started I wasn't even making $20,000 a year and I had a lot of work, sometimes coming in at 7am and leaving after 6pm and I was the receptionist staying later than the secretaries.Kind of wondering to myself why there are so many positions for?Customer service?@?Fedex, in different locations. That is kind of strange especially for Manhattan.They are always?hiring?- I can't speak to the Manhattan office specifically, but a friend who works in another state is always complaining about this. They hire a ton of people, most of whom don't make it more than a few months. It seems like she is either working a ton of overtime because they don't have enough people or she can't get any hours because they've just gone on a hiring spree.They seem to prefer lots of part-timers as opposed to a few full-timers.Well....I'm STILL one of those people with a 2014?College?Piece of Paper....I meant Certificate.....ok Diploma.Anyways, after 6 months of applying to numerous job openings, learning to finally say "No Sales", blaming the economy for everything, deleting my Facebook so I don't see "OMMGGGG, I GOT THE JOB @ BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY AS?ASSISTANT?CEO!!!"I've used CareerBuilder, Indeed, USAJOBS, Job Fairs and so far would say my applications are in the high 200s or 300s. Around 5-6 actual interviews. Numerous "We regret to infor-".... AHHHH 4UCK YOU........ And around 5 or 6?Hiring?Agency interviews/screenings with so far nothing. I only had 1 job opening for an agency just a few weeks ago that I couldn't get simply because someone else took it literally within 5 seconds of the agency sending out the e-mail. One direct-hire job that I really wanted and wanted me but later figured out that they can't have a sibling working in the same environment. That was a.......very depressing and aggravating week.I've worked in Retail before, volunteer, and at my school. All were only for a month each.......I really don't have a problem being a part of the 12.5% that is Underemployed....I DO HAVE PROBLEM with being Unemployed.....I mean seriously, if my parents did not pay for college,?housing,?food, plumbing, electricity. I would most likely have to commit suicide based off what stories I've read from kids who did not have the backing that I fortunately have.However, there was this thing that I learned which is called Locus of Control. By the looks of it, I'm definitely a definition of having an External Locus of Control. I blame politicians for not caring about the job economy, I blame the employers, I say "pffff, I would have gotten fired anyway if I got the job"Pretty much every excuse you could possibly think of, has come across my mind but I have no necessarily expressed those feelings. If I did, well...LOL I would most likely lose of my "Friends" on Facebook.ok, I just looked at some statistics, and the mind blower is this, among working people the average hourly rate of pay is....$24.53!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?Now in order for it to be this high, it means that the high income of some is averaged with the low income of the masses. No wonder the Republicans are so confused or that Obama thinks?healthcare?is now affordable!ok, so I just took the total population of the US, subtracted the?childrenbelow age 15 and the people above age 65. I subtracted 19 million unemployed which is a number many believe is closer to the actual, then assuming that the free and reduced lunch numbers are indicative of the population and divided the number by 50%. While I realize it may not be considered particularly scientific, it leaves about 30% of the population that are actually gainfully employed! There are an estimated 10 million people that are self employed.?So about 187 million are working for someone else, so about 187 million jobs for about 206 million people of working age. Give or take a few hundred thousand. And yep that puts about 19million unemployed ...another 90 million underemployed and about 97 million real jobs that we are all competing for.So any math whizzes? Of the 97 million real jobs how many are attainable? How many jobs qualify as middle class wages? Any thoughts? Roughly 3 million people will retire this year so that is about 1 job opening for every 7 people unemployed or underemployed. At any given time you are competing with possibly hundreds of applicants.?So, I am just trying to get a clear picture in my head, because, too many of us are beating ourselves up over the unemployment situation. What were the numbers during the Great Depression?I need a Plan B & C. My plan B is volunteering in the meanwhile so that I at least keep current on my resume. Plan C, I haven't figured out yet.Ha, working on that myself, I keep hoping for my luck to change, but looking at the numbers makes me think a plan C needs to be considered. I do not like plan C. Moving back in with my parents, at my age is not appealing, yet their?health care?is continuing to escalate and their savings to dwindle. I grew up in an upper middleclass world and finding myself facing some hard realities. If serious job growth does not occur and we continue to send jobs overseas or outsource more occupations, then the future is not looking good.So here's another statistic... less than 127 million people voted in the last Presidential election and there are at least 110 million unemployed or underemployed. So we ALL need to VOTE, VOTE, VOTE.It just makes me crazy how many folks are suffering, and what a number this all does to an ego, I started dissecting numbers after I read a post from another person, here, ...the reality is, extreme competition, and no matter what any of us do/does...there are a whole bunch of people that will not make-the-cut. A whole bunch of highly educated people, "we" as a group ought to be able to come up with some "real" solutions.I'm surprised we don't hear more stories of people committing suicide over unemployment or underemployment. I've thought about offing myself more times than I'm comfortable to admit this path month. I've never made a plan or anything, but the thought crosses my mind when I think about what I'm going to do when I completely run out of money and lose?housing. Sadly, it always pops up like "Well, I could always kill myself."?I'm just at a total loss at what to do. I applied for a couple of jobs I thought I would be perfect for last Monday. I haven't heard anything back and was told from someone in the company that they probably wouldn't consider me because I was an "outsider" and they like to hire from within (or from contacts of those already employed). I just feel so hopeless. I shouldn't feel this way at 22. I should be enjoying life to the fullest but I feel so old and beat down.?I think I need professional help, but guess what? I can't afford it without a job!My primary thought would be since suicide isn't "glamor" news like a football player beating his wife or about a Kardashian (whatever the H that is), Bieber (like I care), it just isn't news.After all, our "wonderful"?government?is telling us that the Great Recession is over and we all have jobs now. Never mind the jobs we Do have are at 10 + year old wages....I'm surprised we don't hear more stories of people committing suicide over unemployment or underemployment. I've thought about offing myself more times than I'm comfortable to admit this path month. I've never made a plan or anything, but the thought crosses my mind when I think about what I'm going to do when I completely run out of money and lose?housing. Sadly, it always pops up like "Well, I could always kill myself."?I'm just at a total loss at what to do. I applied for a couple of jobs I thought I would be perfect for last Monday. I haven't heard anything back and was told from someone in the company that they probably wouldn't consider me because I was an "outsider" and they like to hire from within (or from contacts of those already employed). I just feel so hopeless. I shouldn't feel this way at 22. I should be enjoying life to the fullest but I feel so old and beat down.?I think I need professional help, but guess what? I can't afford it without a job!Rejoice in the fact that you are young and learning how tenuous employment can be, my generation did not anticipate this...sure my grandparents were always pointing out that "we" needed to be more frugal...but we were victims of slick?advertising?and media. Your generation now is tasked with figuring out how to bring jobs back to this country, how to make less money go farther and solutions that bring it all in line. You are way too young to be viewing this as hopeless...you are the generation that has the ability to SOLVE this mess!!!I am finding similar problems here, I have a Masters Degree, and have managed to find SOME work, but demands from employers are often ridiculous, the expenses associated with some assignments actually exceed the pay. I find it a bit frightening to consider the big picture...I do not believe unemployment numbers are improving, ...Oh believe me, the numbers are not improving and Washington is just feeding people lies about the unemployment rate being down.?They don't consider those whose unemployment has run out and are homeless or living in their cars.Rejection Letters...................I am finding that I am receiving rejection letters the same day as applying for jobs online within a 2 - 3 hour limit.This is freaking me out, it's like "really, you found someone whose skills fit more than mine, Seriously?".Who are these people offering a wage lower than minimum wage ? WTH ??You are so on point on employers listing all the requirements and then offering up little in pay, it's just flat out EVIL to me and makes me want to Really hire that Clown from AHS Freak show to take a couple of them employers out! LOLIt truly is EVIL because you know they say "someone will be desperate enough to take it" and they are right. When you get like us you take a second look at those jobs and I hate that I have taken a second look at jobs and hours I would never have before. No adult can live on $8.78 an hour. I still can't believe they posted that pay along with 5 years Exec level skills wanted. That had to be a typo.It truly is EVIL because you know they say "someone will be desperate enough to take it" and they are right. When you get like us you take a second look at those jobs and I hate that I have taken a second look at jobs and hours I would never have before. No adult can live on $8.78 an hour. I still can't believe they posted that pay along with 5 years Exec level skills wanted. That had to be a typo.I'm thinking maybe it wasn't a typo on the requirement.?I saw an ad that had every possible office duty to name along with wanting the person to have 5 years experience and the pay was only $9. I was beyond shocked and yes, you are right with people being desperate enough to apply and take the job. It just kills me that any employer would and could be so evil knowing how bad the job market is and offering such low pay, but then they are probably thinking the?economics?theme of "Supply and Demand" that we all learned in high school and frankly it's pretty F*ked up for them to honestly think that people can live on $9 an hour without having to take on at least 2 other part time jobs in order to survive.Ok, Evil is at work here or something is just wrong with this employer. LOLI applied for a?customer service representative?job in Irwindale on 11-4, $16-18 starting salary. I receive a phone call today stating they were calling regarding my application for a superior?court?clerk?position in Long Beach and if I was "still available for work", when I hear this statement, I immediately think it's a Temp Agency Calling, so of course I ask, is this temp agency and the guy says no, so I'm thinking, ok cool. I proceed to tell him he must have me confused with someone else because I applied for a CSR job, not a court clerk job.Here is the Kicker..........................?He says there was a "Glitch" in their system and that the job was actually in Long Beach and for a superior court clerk and the salary was $10.96 an?hr.I said "Seriously? Are you kidding me ?", His vibes over the phone, came off as being embarrassed my question and I could mentally see him shrinking in my head. LOLEveryone knows and it's common knowledge that the court system starting salary is at least $14 - 22 an hour. I just found it hard to believe that the court would use a 3rd party company to collect court payment and that the 3rd party wouldn't pay as well as the court does. Gosh, what was I thinking ? LOLNeedless to say, he excused himself and politely said thank you.?The 26 miles wouldn't even cover the cost of gas to get there. Ughs.But you gotta love it when they make asses out of THEMSELVES and you know and they know you know. Just tiny little victories like that can go a long way. Keep on, Fight!We have a new governor in IL and I'm hoping and praying he fixes the job situation here.I am so frustrated right now I could scream. I have had it with applying to jobs and getting no response! I literally want to call these places and give them a piece of my mind. Why can't you just give me a quick call or e-mail and let me know I don't have a chance?! Just send me a one sentence note saying "not qualified" or some other bull.?And on another note, why does no one hire strangers anymore? Why do you have to know someone in the company to have a chance at employment? I swear to god, I've worked with people who have gotten jobs just because they know someone in the company. These people are awful, lazy and have no clue what the heck they are doing. Yet people who are hard workers and skilled are overlooked just because they don't have an "in". People are so lazy they don't want to go through the effort of interviewing people, so they just hire from whoever they know!?I am at my wits end. My temp job ends next week, and I don't know what I'm going to do. I literally feel like going to businesses and begging for a job. Yet, I still have a little dignity left that's preventing me from doing this.?God I hate my life, all these selfish companies and?government?so much right now. It shouldn't be so hard to make a meager living. I don't ask for much, I just need to provide for myself.have you tried door-door, ?If you mean door-to-door in terms of taking your résumé directly to the employers, speaking to someone and giving them out. Forget it. I tried this not long ago. Mom drove me and I went in. I can't tell you how many employers seemed surprised to see me. (I guess doing this has died out several years ago. People just don't do it nowadays.) The vast majority ended up rebuffing me and refusing to take my résumé. Told me they weren't?hiring?and told me that to just get rid of me no doubt.I've done that before. They wouldn't even accept my resume. Just told me they weren't hiring, or to apply online. Never heard back from the online applications. Only thing I got out of it were rude and superior looks. I was inferior to them because I was asking for a job.I've been trying to get a?federal?job ().Been applying for everything from a GS-4 to a GS-7 not only here at the Great Lakes Naval Base, but in the big cities as well: Chicago and Milwaukee.There was a time (10, 15, 20 years ago) when it was quite easy to get a federal job. When times are good, no one wants to work for the?federal government?because they know they can get better paying jobs on the outside. However, when times are bad everyone wants in and then it becomes hard to, if not, impossible to get in.Though one of the particularly nice things about the federal?government?is if you have a?general office/clerical?background and are looking for work as a mail room?clerk,?data entry clerk,?file clerk, receptionist/front deskcoordinator,?administrative/admin?assistant, payroll clerk/technician, budget clerk/technician, supply clerk/technician, etc..., then there's certain parts of the country, like upper Michigan (Iron Mountain area) where you can go and work for such entities like the VA because no one wants to go work out in the middle of nowhere. It's just a matter of trying to relocate when times are bad and money is tight or basically non-existent. However, there are times the government will pay for one's re-location expenses given the job they applied for and how badly they want the position filled.I am so frustrated right now I could scream. I have had it with applying to jobs and getting no response! I literally want to call these places and give them a piece of my mind. Why can't you just give me a quick call or e-mail and let me know I don't have a chance?! Just send me a one sentence note saying "not qualified" or some other bull.?And on another note, why does no one hire strangers anymore? Why do you have to know someone in the company to have a chance at employment? I swear to god, I've worked with people who have gotten jobs just because they know someone in the company. These people are awful, lazy and have no clue what the heck they are doing. Yet people who are hard workers and skilled are overlooked just because they don't have an "in". People are so lazy they don't want to go through the effort of interviewing people, so they just hire from whoever they know!?I am at my wits end. My temp job ends next week, and I don't know what I'm going to do. I literally feel like going to businesses and begging for a job. Yet, I still have a little dignity left that's preventing me from doing this.?God I hate my life, all these selfish companies and?government?so much right now. It shouldn't be so hard to make a meager living. I don't ask for much, I just need to provide for myself.It's not you.?Many of the "jobs" we apply to don't even exist.?You're not doing anything wrong.?I agree that most of the?HR?and others who do the interviewing are incompetent or petty.?I agree that the government isn't going to do anything about this.Today will be my "mass-apply" day. I've been slacking off with the one app a day thing. I try to do as many as possible but let's face it, quality for quantity.I can't even find two. I'd love to "mass apply" and tried but ended up getting fake jobs. It has scared me that in 4 days I have applied to 2 jobs!! And have not heard back from NOT ONE of the jobs I mass applied to a couple weeks ago. I have a couple months left of unemployment and don't see a Happy New Year in my future. More like Happy Same Old S#it From Last Year. My email and phone is growing cobwebs. I think the holidays are not helping.Yesterday I didn't find anything. I can't mass apply no matter how much I want toI've done that before. They wouldn't even accept my resume. Just told me they weren't?hiring, or to apply online. Never heard back from the online applications. Only thing I got out of it were rude and superior looks. I was inferior to them because I was asking for a job.This is what makes me want to scream and cry. We are treated like garbage for wanting a job like they have. People are quick to judge and tell those not working to "take any job" and not be lazy. But then we are treated like lepers when out there pounding the pavement. When did it become demeaning to job search?I feel like most companies don't pay attention to online applications. I feel like they already have someone in mind and only put the listings out because they are required to by?law.The only interviews I've ever gotten were from jobs I applied to where I've had a reference in the company. And I've only had 3 of these. I'm so unlucky I can't even get an interview. I've been on only four since I graduated (including the interview for a retail job I worked for a year and half), and that was back in 2012. My area is so saturated with people like me (college?educated, but little experience) that I know I'm going to have to move to have any chance in life. I just cannot afford to move without a job.The reason employers want people filling out online applications instead of handing them paper résumé, i.e. hard copies, is that humans are becoming less and less involved in the?hiring?process. By requiring online applications, software automatically decides who is, and is not, worthy of an interview.On the employee side, the downside is that, for example, if the software is programmed to trash any application where the bachelor's degree box is not checked, then it doesn't matter if you have 30 years of management experience or?administrative assistant?exerience; no one will ever see your application. Pretty sad state of affairs.This is what makes me want to scream and cry. We are treated like garbage for wanting a job like they have. People are quick to judge and tell those not working to "take any job" and not be lazy. But then we are treated like lepers when out there pounding the pavement. When did it become demeaning to job search?It became demeaning when people insisted everyone needs a?collegedegree.?When schools saturated certain fields. When the?government?keeps bringing in more and more people to work cheaper than Americans. When the jobs keep going overseas. When more and more?business?in the US is just giant companies instead of medium- or small businesses. When employers can get away with murder and employees have to put up it.Its the darkside of technology. My sister works for a brand name company and they use Taleo as their ATS system. A human only will look at less than 10% of the submissions as Taleo puts the other 90% in the B Pile: Not printed, not processed.The resume which you can upload along with the application is only there to make you feel a sense of accomplishment. It is only looked at, five minutes before your interview.On the employee side, the downside is that, for example, if the software is programmed to trash any application where the bachelor's degree box is not checked, then it doesn't matter if you have 30 years of management experience or?administrative assistant?exerience; no one will ever see your application. Pretty sad state of affairs.And if the pay grade is 30K - 35K and you put in 37K as your salary requirement, nobody sees your application either. Ain't technology something? LOL!over half of the people at my last job knew someone. Me and my friend joked that we had to actually interview for that crappy job. One of theattorney's 17 y/o daughter was back up receptionist, so don't tell me that employers need a?college?degreed candidate with 4 references and 3-6 years experience to do it AFTER 3 interviews. It's a joke.I so wish I knew someone who could just tell me to show up at the office for a guaranteed job. The MANAGING PARTNER knew some young girl who was a previous?bartender. ZERO office experience. She was the new receptionist and not doing that bang of a job, at least in the beginning. But they have to put up with it 'cause of how she knows. You know she would not get into to many offices with just a bartender background.Oh and the previous receptionist took her twin sisters old job--an Underwriter position. ZERO experience. When I saw what people want to hire somoone as an underwriter, no way she would have gotten in without knowing anyone. She tells me 'No experience, but they're gonna train me and show me what to do' Well, hell, they can do that with anyone! Yet someone qualified has to jump through hoops, have experience and STILL get the rejection about someone getting it that's a better fit.Any of you have good luck WITH a staffing agency in the past?I avoid them like the plague. I've only been placed 3 times by them. Manpower, Paige Personnel Services (JobGiraffe these days) and?ChaseProfessionals have all placed me. None of the jobs they placed me in lasted that long. The one with Manpower lasted 2 or 3 days. The ones with Paige Personnel Services and Chase Professionals lasted a day. I also tried a specialized agency for?healthcare?professionals and for?dentalprofessionals (dentists, hygienists, assistants, office managers and?front office?staff). Paid the dental staffing agency $10 to process me and take me on. Nothing. Months went by and I was watching all these jobs listed on their site they could've sent me out for and didn't. I finally asked them to refund my $10. They reluctantly agreed.Honestly, I've always had better luck on my own. My experience with most staffing/personnel/employment/temporary/recruiting agencies has been negative. They say they'll find you work and send you out and when push comes to shove, they don't. Nowadays you simply wait around twiddling your thumbs for them to get back to you about work and when you get back in touch with them they simply tell you they're working on it and don't really give you any?concrete?updates about finding you work let alone placing you.If you search the Indeed forum, you'll find more negative things about them than positive.Any of you have good luck WITH a staffing agency in the past?N.E.V.E.R. Suburban Girl, I got a call from?Chase?Professional but when I called her back she refused to return my calls. WTF? Anyway, I always have better luck on my own too. I have done the come in, fill out papers/take tests thing 3 times and never amounted to anything.I guess I should say that one staffing agency did contact me with a job and I was set up with the interview within days, but didn't get hired. I guess I can say that the was the only one that actually just got right down tobusiness?with having a job for me and sending me out on it. Never had that happen before. I wish they were all like that.But overall they have never helped me and just want you to come in and fill out papers so they look busy. I also hate when you see a job posted through the agency and apply and they want you to come in and want to talk about your goals and what you're looking for, fill out papers.. um, what about the job that was posted? Can we get to talking about that? Somehow you never see that interview and that job disappears, but they will be sure to call when something else arises. Sure. Ok.I have lost all faith and trust in them.Any of you have good luck WITH a staffing agency in the past?Apple One is not bad unless something happens on the job to you personally and they will totally take the clients story and will not take you off the assignment, (they'd be loosing their commission if they were to do so).Other than them, I like many others do my best to avoid them if all possible.?If they call you saying "I have a couple of jobs in mind for you" It's a scam and their way of getting you in the door and signing up with their agency, only to build up their?database. Sometimes you will hear back from them but if all odds, you wont. Temp agencies are nothing but a waste of time, gas and don't show any sign of being human at all. :)I'm just saying from my experience.?But these days of desperation while still holding on to my Soul, I just wanna work and if they have something that starts in 24 hours and is at least 3 months, then I'm down. :)And all those fake ads they post.I especially dislike the COMPANY CONFIENTIAL ones. Seriously? Why does the employer need to be confidential?Personally, I think way too many have their hands in the cookie jar all for one job these days.I had a lady with a staffing/personnel/employment/temporary/recruiting agency E-Mail me once about a job with Abbott Laboratories. After reading about the job and what it entailed, I told them sure. Submit me. Definitely a job I could do and was interested in. (It was a basic?lab?job similar to the one I had in my early?college?days in the?biology?and?chemistry?prep labs at the local?community?college and a couple of recent specimen technician jobs I had which required sorting, processing and aliquoting samples.) However, shortly after I told her to submit me, she contacted me again to tell me her boss said she couldn't do that because her boss felt I wasn't qualified enough. The lady ended up apologizing to me and I said that was okay but boy was I upset and disappointed because they reached out to me, NOT the other way around. A few weeks later, I'm contacted by a guy from another staffing/personnel/employment/temporary/recruiting agency. This time on the phone. He was telling me about the exact same job the lady at the other agency had told me about. I told him thanks but no thanks because I just had a lady from another agency going to submit me for the job when her boss ended up pulling the plug because she felt I wasn't qualified enough for the job. The guy told me he disagreed with that and wanted to submit me for it because he had a special relationship with the employer that no other agency had so I said fine, submit me. I must've waited at least 3 weeks to hear back from the guy before E-Mailing him for an update. He told me he was still waiting to hear back from Abbott and would be in touch. Never heard back from the guy. I thought employers only used one agency when it came to filling a job or jobs. Personally, I think staffing/personnel/employment/temporary/recruiting agencies are much more of a joke nowadays than they were 10, 15 or 20 years ago. I think they did a much better job doing what they did back then than they do nowadays.Yes. I think back then they genuinely wanted to help you find a job, now it's just about recruiting people and making it seem like they're helping you. It's just a?business?to them but it's very hard to deal with on our side when we are checking every avenue for job help and want a job NOW, not in 5 months IF they get around to it. I knew a lot of people that got jobs through staffing agencies which is why I always went to them, I guess I wasn't going to the right ones or the specific ones or something. I thought I was.I just feel like after the the tests/paperwork/talking to them they can find SOMETHING I'm qualified for. But after that is usually when they drop off the planet and I'm feeling frustrated again I wasted my time and getting my hopes up.I checked CareerBuilder today and it's a joke. 98% of it is staffing/recruiters and the other 2 percent equal months old jobs probably already filled and sales jobs. It used to be better than that. There's nowhere reliable to even look online these days.Too much paperwork and don't get me started with their tests. It's bad enough I'm asked to take personality tests and other assessment tests for jobs with the actual companies/employers. Heck, that's where they probably got that from just like the whole working interview thing.Honestly, I don't even know how staffing/personnel/employment/temporary/recruiting agencies can even stay in?business?these days.I checked CareerBuilder today and it's a joke. 98% of it is staffing/recruiters and the other 2 percent equal months old jobs probably already filled and sales jobs. It used to be better than that. There's nowhere reliable to even look online these days.They post everywhere, not just CareerBuilder. They're on Monster and Craigslist too. I hate it because I have to sort through all their crap for actual employer ads. Staffing/personnel/employment/temporary/recruiting agencies should be prohibited from posting on job/career sites since most of their ads are fake (why they'd even pay to post a fake ad is beyond me) and since they offer no real help whatsoever.I dropped the?director?of the local Catholic Charities an E-Mail after the last job fair they hosted not so long ago and told them to stop inviting all the staffing/personnel/employment/temporary/recruiting to their jobs fairs because they're of absolutely no help to job seekers today and I explained why.I thought employers only used one agency when it came to filling a job or jobs.No, when a company jobs out a position, they are usually "price shopping" and they will give the job out to 3 or 4 different recruiters and let them beat the bushes for them.No, when a company jobs out a position, they are usually "price shopping" and they will give the job out to 3 or 4 different recruiters and let them beat the bushes for them.I presume the reason the jobs have dried-up is because *job seekers* got really tired of filing out resumes and then NEVER hearing anything! After a while monster, etc... all become pointless or irrelevant. If you spent a year or two using those resources and applied to 100s of companies and maybe got an occasional email (thanks-but no thanks)...well, it just became a huge waste of time.Any of you have good luck WITH a staffing agency in the past?Oh, boy, does this touch on a sore spot with me. I initially became unemployed five years ago BECAUSE of a staffing agency. While I was still at my last "real" job (which I really did want to move on from), I spied an online listing from an agency for a?contract?position that offered better pay and was more in line with my background. Long story short, I interviewed for the job and got a call back from the agency that I was one of a team of candidates who would be working for their client. The project was supposed to start the next week. (Make a note that I wrote SUPPOSED to start!) So here's what happened after that: I promptly told my employer that I was leaving, and they were unhappy that I wasn't giving them a full two weeks' notice. Within a day or two, I got a call back from the staffing agency, informing me that the project I was hired for was being postponed, and they couldn't tell me when it would be starting. Great. So, I went back to my employer, to see if I could hang on to my job, and, of course, they told me that, since I'd already given them my notice, I obviously was not interested in being there, so they wouldn't want me to stay on. Thus, I was left both without either my OLD or my NEW job. Thanks, staffing agency! (I have a few more tales to tell about my experiences with staffing agencies since then, but I don't want to cram everything into one ridiculously long post.)I resemble that remark!!! Staffing and temp has changed dramatically in the last few years...I have horror stories as well, they can actually do more harm than good, so be VERY careful. It runs the gammit from employers who are seeking the cheapest?labor?they can find and so abuse thegovernment?subsidies for training pay (for these you can be the perfect employee and still be fired after a few weeks) so easy for them to?fire?as they call the temp/staffing firm and ask for someone new ,the last one is a bad fit...agencies undercutting each other so you get work from one that you love and the next job goes to a different agency because they under-cut the one you worked for the last time, agencies that make it sound good up-front and then your out-of-pocket expenses exceed the pay rate, agencies that hire 1,000 people as Independant contractors and then you compete with each other on a first come-first serve-website with very few job offers...(of course their goal is to fill the jobs as quickly as possible, so they look good, and they are successful as it takes less than 1 second to fill the work, when you have 100s or even 1000s of people watching the website), and the worst thing of all....YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RECOURSE!!!!!To continue with my screed against staffing agencies (I warned everyone that this is a sore subject with me!!), in the first half-year after I found myself without a job, I tried everything I could think of to get myself back to work--other than contacting staff agencies, that is, because I was so disgusted with them in light of the experience that had led to my losing my job. (Actually, I believe there was one staffing agency I got in touch with within a few days of becoming unemployed, but that was only because they were right around the corner from where I live. As it turned out, I heard back from them only once, many months later, when they placed me on one half-day assignment.)?Anyway, after six months of being without work, I conceded defeat and started registering with staffing agencies. One of them placed me on a temporary?data-entry?job at a?law?firm. It turned out that there were a bunch of other temps doing more or less the same work, and, from chatting with one of them, I discovered that the rule was the law firm would decide after three months whether to take us on a "permanent" basis.?My three-month trial period came and went without anyone saying anything further to me, so I contacted the agency to find out how much longer I would be on the assignment. (As an aside, the turnover at the agency was tremendous. During the six months I was on this assignment, the person I was supposed to contact at the agency changed three times.) The agency initially told me that I was hired by the client law firm, but, alas, that proved not to be the case, and I remained on as a temp for another three months, until, one day, the supervisor in the department where I was working called me into her office to inform me that my assignment was over.?I wound up never working for that staffing agency ever again. I'll share the rest of my staffing agency experiences in another message Apparently, I've reached the limit for how long the text in this post can be.My staffing agency horror story continues. (I hope I'm not boring everyone with this, but I really need to vent!!!)?Right after my?data-entry?assignment at the?law?firm ended, I got in touch with a different staffing agency, at the suggestion of one of my former temp co-workers, who said she'd had success getting work through them. So, I registered with this other agency through their website, talked to someone there by telephone, and took a bunch of online assessments. I repeatedly called the agency to follow up, but just kept getting told that they had "nothing" for me, so I eventually stopped contacting them.?Months later, the agency that placed me at the law firm contacted me to ask if I would be available that day to help a company move its offices from one building suite to another. I took the assignment and made the hour-long drive to the client company, only to discover, when I arrived, that nobody there was expecting me. Apparently what had happened was that the staffing agency's previous candidate on the job had been so terrible that she had been let go, and the client company decided just to use its own people to take care of the office move. So, I had to turn around and go home. At least I got four hours' pay out of the deal.?I later applied for another assignment through the agency. Someone from their office was supposed to call me for a telephone interview, but when the appointed time came and went, I heard nothing from the agency, so I called them. I was told that the person who was supposed to call me was tied up, but would be getting in contact with me in a little while. I heard nothing further--not even an apology for having wasted my time.?There was one last time that I tried to work with the same agency. As usual, they initially told me very little about where the assignment was, but it turned out it would have been very inconvenient for me to get to, and I wound up passing up the job. I don't think I ever got in touch with them again.I had this happen to me as well, but staffing/personnel/employment/temporary/recruiting agencies weren't involved. I had left one actual company/employer for another one and when the second one said they no longer wanted to invest in training me a week and a half into it the damage was already done with the first one. I ended up flushing 5 months of employment down the drain for a better opportunity that came back and bit me in the a**. Sucks, doesn't it? I was unemployed for several months as a result of that.Personally, staffing/personnel/employment/temporary/recruiting agencies should be illegal. I don't think they should be allowed to exist. That or they need to be regulated by the?government?and be adhering to certain standards and subject to periodic check-ins and reviews.Whenever I walk into staffing/personnel/employment/temporary/recruiting agencies, there's gobs of Hispanic people. I feel like I live in Mexico.They do realize they have to take care of people of other races and ethnicities, right?OK, I promise that I will wrap up my saga (or, actually, rant) about staffing agencies.?After going for quite some time without landing any more work through the agency that had placed me at the?law?firm, I tried my hand at retail work, which proved to be a complete disaster, and I wound up signing up with yet another agency. This time, it was OfficeTeam, and, if you poke around on one of the Indeed forums about them, you'll see two or three (negative!!) comments I posted about them some time ago, using the same screen name and town as I do here.?Since there's really no benefit in repeating what I've already written there, I'll just sum up my experiences at OfficeTeam by saying that, while a couple of the assignments I had with them over the course of 15 months were fine, I repeatedly found myself placed on jobs that I was either physically unable to do, or for which I lacked the qualifications. The problem I had with that particular agency was that OfficeTeam often provided incomplete, or even incorrect, information about the jobs they were trying to fill. It might be a matter of disorganization on their part, perhaps because (as with one of the other agencies I mentioned in an earlier post), there seemed to be a lot of turnover in their staff.?As an example of the poor information OfficeTeam provided me, on the very last assignment I took through them, they gave me a non-existent address for the place where I was supposed to be reporting. I had to take it upon myself to figure out where I should be going, because no one at OfficeTeam ever got back to me when I pointed out the problem to them.?On that last assignment, one of the big issues I had was that I kept getting conflicting stories about how long the job was going to last. What was really irritating to me about that was the guy I reported to at the agency then put the blame on me for all the confusion going on.?Oh, darn! I've run out of room to type. I'll finish up this story in my next post.OK, I promise that this is my final post on staffing agencies, at least for now. It's just a topic that makes me so mad!!!?Anyway, the final straw for me with OfficeTeam was when, in the course of about two weeks, two big arguments broke out in the offices of the place where I'd been assigned to work. I call them "arguments," but I think they were a bit more than that, because, in one case, the two people involved had to be physically separated, and in the other case, building security had to be called in, and we all were told to lock our offices, so the guy involved couldn't return.?When I called my supervisor at OfficeTeam about these incidents, indicating my concern about remaining on the assignment, he was extremely unhelpful, even dismissive. Since I was closing in on the end of my sixth month on that job, I decided I'd had enough and gave him my two weeks' notice.?A postscript--on my final day on that job, I discovered that OfficeTeam had failed to tell the client company that I was leaving, so they pleaded with me to stick it out for a couple more days, so a replacement could be trained. It was a rather interesting request to make of me, since the guy at OfficeTeam had earlier criticized me for changing my mind about whether I wanted to continue with the assignment.?Well, by that point, I'd had enough with the whole thing, and I left on the day that I had said I would. I've never been in touch with OfficeTeam, or any other staffing agency, since then.?And thus concludes my tale. (I hope at least some of you are still awake.)Sooo...the most irritating thing is that... all of these complaints, issues, etc...are spun/spinned as "us" blaming someone other than ourselves, for our current situations. That is the MOST frustrating part of ALL!!! Somehow we are not owning up to our own shortcomings, otherwise we would not have these problems!!!Some authors do say that if you are unemployed, you are somehow responsible. You didn't see the writing on the wall, you didn't keep your vocational skills up, you didn't align yourself with power cliques, you stayed too long at one employer and not long enough at another, you dress funny and on and on.Martin Ford in his "Lights in the Tunnel" says the job market is continuously shrinking and predicts a much smaller job market in the future. Thinking that if you lose one job that you can just go out and find another one, will soon not be an option.Monster has to be the worst site for job hunting. Am I the only one confused by the postings? TMonster's Golden Age was about 20 years ago. Companies were still running classified ads in newspapers, using telephone hot lines and holding job fairs. Their success was in their timing. They were the "next big thing". Its an aging product line now.Sooo...the most irritating thing is that... all of these complaints, issues, etc...are spun/spinned as "us" blaming someone other than ourselves, for our current situations. That is the MOST frustrating part of ALL!!! Somehow we are not owning up to our own shortcomings, otherwise we would not have these problems!!!Speaking for myself, I'm sure that, in my case, I have developed an attitude that's pretty counterproductive. On the other hand, though, there are lots of (very good!!) reasons to feel frustrated, irritated and angry about the situation we're in, such as:?1) Applying endlessly to jobs online, and almost never hearing anything back--not even a boilerplate rejection.?2) Seeing the same darned jobs listed over and over again, month after month. What's with that??3) Getting bombarded with job alerts containing almost nothing but completely irrelevant listings.?4) Working with temp agencies that are incompetent at best and waste your time in more ways than you can count.?5) Out of desperation, having to take some?entry-level position where a bullying (or just basically nasty) supervisor treats you like an idiot.?6) Having a bunch of well-meaning, but basically uninformed, friends and family members give you advice on what you need to do to get a job, such as improving your attitude.?7) And, finally, seeing news reports about how the unemployment rate is dropping, and new jobs are being created, but knowing that there's more to the story than that.?I conclude by saying, "Grrrrrrr!!!"Martin Ford in his "Lights in the Tunnel" says the job market is continuously shrinking and predicts a much smaller job market in the future. Thinking that if you lose one job that you can just go out and find another one, will soon not be an option.It's like that now. If you lose a job it's next to impossible to find one.Here's my take on things...I think they post fake jobs to look competitive and to make the economy look better than it is. I also think they post those jobs to get resumes so when the boss decides he wants his nephew, who just graduated, to work there, they can say they have looked outside the company.Lots of reasons for a bad job market.Yet the news will tell you the economy has improved and we are no longer in a recession. NOT.The guy told me he disagreed with that and wanted to submit me for it because he had a special relationship with the employer that no other agency had so I said fine, submit me. I must've waited at least 3 weeks to hear back from the guy before E-Mailing him for an update. He told me he was still waiting to hear back from Abbott and would be in touch. Never heard back from the guy.?I thought employers only used one agency when it came to filling a job or jobs.Sometimes the companies end up putting the job on hold or cancelling all together.?Sometimes the companies just take forever to make up their minds on whom they are gonna pick for the position as well. Its just senseless at times waiting around and I hate the fact that the agencies lie threw their teeth as well when they talk to you on the phone, Jerks.I had a job several years ago that was literally a 2 hour commute. I did it because it was all I could get and again, I was employed.When I am working, I have no life.I can relate.?When I worked for SCE my commute was 2 hours each way. We worked 55 to 60 hours a week as well. I'd leave my?apartment?at 4:20 am to be at work by 6:30 if I was lucky depending on traffic. My work was my life.Same thing at UPS - I worked 12 - 14 hours 6 days a week and definitely didn't have a life there and before I came, I heard some of my fellow co-workers tell me they would be worked up to 18 hours in a day and still be expected to show back up for work on their normal shift of 8 hours. That place was nuts, 50 of us were all temps as well, so the company was taking advantage for sure because they knew how bad the job market was back then in Feb 2014 and unfortunately still is.I told my friend (that I'm staying with) this very fact last night, she was shocked. I told her think about it, if your not receiving unemployment then your not included in that count. The govt could care less about those whose unemployment ran out, the homeless etc. Their letting the news shine on TV like everything is ok when it's not.I can tell I have changed, I get madder much faster now. I'm tired of spending hours to find a job, apply and never hear back. Making me pretty insane now.I can relate.?I won't even apply to state jobs now, I figure why waste my stamp when they don't have the slightest courtesy on getting back to people. That's 45 cents I could of used on something half off at the 99 cent store. LOL :)Here's my Version1) Applying endlessly to jobs online, and almost never hearing anything back or receiving Rejection emails within the hour of applying.?2) Getting bombarded with emails from?insurance?companies.?3) Working with temp agencies that are incompetent giving you false hope and promises.I'm just sick of it all, I mean where is the honesty these days, no company seems to be truthful, yet they want you to pee in a cup and do a back ground check for a job that is more than likely non-existent or filled already.Monster has to be the worst site for job hunting. Am I the only one confused by the postings? TI believe the only responses I ever got through Monster were from a fast-talking guy at some sort of?financial-advising company who had seen the resume I had posted online. Oh, there is absolutely nothing in my resume indicating that I have even the slightest bit of experience related to financial advising. Such was my welcome to this Brave New World.Never in my life have I gotten a response from Monster, and I was also confused by their postings. I'd search and everything in the world would come up. No organization at all. I gave up using them.Here's my Version1) Applying endlessly to jobs online, and almost never hearing anything back or receiving Rejection emails within the hour of applying.?2) Getting bombarded with emails from?insurance?companies.?3) Working with temp agencies that are incompetent giving you false hope and promises.I'm just sick of it all, I mean where is the honesty these days, no company seems to be truthful, yet they want you to pee in a cup and do a back ground check for a job that is more than likely non-existent or filled already.Oh, those are good variations, too. (As I was posting my list, I knew there was no way I would think of all the possible things to include.)?I believe I've run into some, or all, of these, as well. When I initially lost my job, nearly five years ago, one of the very first things I did was go onto the websites of Wal-Mart, Target and one of the big bookstore chains (either Barnes & Noble or Borders). In each case, I apparently flunked the online personality assessments that I had to take. The rejection from Target got to me within what seemed like minutes after I'd finished taking the test. Yay!?By "e-mails from insurance companies," do you mean those ones that they send, looking for people to sign on as agents or in sales? I've gotten those kinds of e-mails (even though I have no sales background), and even phone calls, from insurance companies. One time, I looked up the insurance company that had contacted me (I forget the name of it now), and found a blog written by someone who had responded to one of their solicitations. It was incredible to see how much of a huge rip-off it was! The blogger said he wound up being on the hook to owe the employing insurance company money, because his sales commissions were less than the cost of his license and/or the draw that he had been paid. Who needs that??1) Applying endlessly to jobs online, and almost never hearing anything back or receiving Rejection emails within the hour of applying.?2) Getting bombarded with emails from?insurance?companies.?3) Working with temp agencies that are incompetent giving you false hope and promises.I'm just sick of it all, I mean where is the honesty these days, no company seems to be truthful, yet they want you to pee in a cup and do a back ground check for a job that is more than likely non-existent or filled already.It's all about the money. I believe most of these places are trying to make as much money before the economy goes down. I don't believe the economy will truly tank or collapse. There is far too much money in the American economy. Look at all of the people going on vacations, hitting the malls, buying every new cell phone that comes out. I don't live that way.Some people are living good still. 40K cars, 400K homes etc., and last but not least, they all have the new iPhone 6.Must be nice to live like that.Yep. Most are not the real rich, but they are the remnant of the Middle Class.?Everywhere I go, employers are trying to pay the least. How are these people making such good money and how do they get employers to pay them well? They aren't all doctors and lawyers.Ok, so in order to bring jobs back, stop buying imports that displace jobs. Many foods are imported now from other countries that used to be exported from the US. We vote with our $$$, so one way to bring back jobs is to stop supporting companies that sent our jobs overseasYes wtf is overqualified? I get that a lot. I'm over-qualified, but not enough, because I don't have a degree. Which is it?That is such a crock...everyday, employers try to get the best value they can for the least expense, telling people they are overqualified is about as lame an answer as there is. Code for...you max out-the-pay-scale (and we really only wanted a 'yes" person), ....code for, you are more qualified than the person?hiring?or management and that makes "me" uncomfortable, because you might know more than "I do"...code for, ...I think this is a good way to let you down-easy, we really do not like you, but don't want to damage your ego, and we are too polite to ignore you.There is a book called "Lights in the Tunnel" by Martin Ford and he predicts a much smaller job market in the future. This comes about as a result of automation and off-shoring.The problem according to him isn't unemployment as you don't' need jobs for a robust economy, not anymore. The problem is that we are losing our tax base. If you lay off 10 cashiers for an automated self-checkout, what happens to the income tax? How do you tax a machine?The "dear" governor of my state is on the way to figuring that out.When I got my ezpass, I paid $15 for it and there was a $15?credit?on the new?account. Free to have and use at the time. Now, unless the user goes through tolls a minimum of 3 times a month, the user has to pay $1.50The state does can reduce toll collectors along with benefits with enough ezpasses. Matter of fact, there is a toll road here that has NO toll booths at all. Everything is done by camera, ezpass or not. If no ezpass, a picture is taken of the license plate and a bill sent to the house. There might even be a surcharge for not having an ezpass.``Keep that quiet, will ya? The ass clown of my state who was recently re-elected governor by folks who go to the polls with their heads up their asses, likes ideas like that. He wants to "look into" taxing non-profits to make them "pay their share". Like taking care of the homeless, feeding people for free, and providing services to disable vets isn't doing their share. That EZ pass larceny idea is right up his intellectually stunted alley.I tried to interview at a?hospital?for the nights and weekends taking trays to patients...they chose to interview me to manage the meal service...4 hour interview, 15,000 meal a day, responsible for 20+ employees-schedules-accountable for special diets..., work nights, weekends and holidays...pay was $9.25 per hour, their excuse, it was a ministry.Here volunteers do that. Its also a ministry with some highly paid CEOs.So I was looking at job postings by a local university and was surprised to come across these:Custodian: Must have five years of work experience as a custodian to be considered (mind you, all you will be doing is mopping,vacuuming and scrubbing toilets).Receptionist: Must have a BACHELORS degree and three years of?front deskexperience. Yes, a bachelors degree for a receptionist position?! Who the heck goes tocollege?with the mindset of being a receptionist when they graduate?!I cannot believe how ridiculous these employers have gotten. This country is in a sad state of affairs. Doesn't matter where you go. Look at us, were all from different areas of the country and we're all experiencing the same thing.If you lay off 10 cashiers for an automated self-checkout, what happens to the income tax? How do you tax a machine?The "dear" governor of my state is on the way to figuring that out.When I got my ezpass, I paid $15 for it and there was a $15?credit?on the new?account. Free to have and use at the time. Now, unless the user goes through tolls a minimum of 3 times a month, the user has to pay $1.50The state does can reduce toll collectors along with benefits with enough ezpasses. Matter of fact, there is a toll road here that has NO toll booths at all. Everything is done by camera, ezpass or not. If no ezpass, a picture is taken of the license plate and a bill sent to the house. There might even be a surcharge for not having an ezpass.``They will just tax the working person more or tax other things more. Right now they are squeezing the heck out of anyone who makes a livable wage.They do nothing to eliminate overspending. They bring people in and just set them up on the dole. That's why everything is so expensive for us. We front the bill.They will just tax the working person more or tax other things more. Right now they are squeezing the heck out of anyone who makes a livable wage.They do nothing to eliminate overspending. They bring people in and just set them up on the dole. That's why everything is so expensive for us. We front the bill.You want to talk dole?? In this state we have a head of DHHS that still keeps her job (by the same ass clown governor) when rock after rock has been turned over revealing a mess costing the state a fortune in Medicaid?fraud. "Oh the two?computer?systems weren't communicating with each other effectively" (for a YEAR!) WTF?So I was looking at job postings by a local university and was surprised to come across these:Custodian: Must have five years of work experience as a custodian to be considered (mind you, all you will be doing is mopping,vacuuming and scrubbing toilets).Receptionist: Must have a BACHELORS degree and three years of?front desk?experience. Yes, a bachelors degree for a receptionist position?! Who the heck goes to?college?with the mindset of being a receptionist when they graduate?!I cannot believe how ridiculous these employers have gotten. This country is in a sad state of affairs. Doesn't matter where you go. Look at us, were all from different areas of the country and we're all experiencing the same thing.Exactly! That's me. I'm supposed to be this proud college graduate working as the receptionist? And how does a bachelors degree help you answer phones? TracieSparkles is right, it's really a?admin?assistant?in disguise. I've seen "receptionist" duties include making travel/hotel?arrangements,?accounting, building security, working with vendors, planning office?events, doing the mail. Yet they are paid $10 an hour and considered to be "just the receptionist "And once you are done making the mail deliveries, they will have you mowing the lawn.Never apply for a job if you think that it was once done by 3 other people. Been there and done that. No fun.This is true! It's sickening how much these Employers are asking one employee to do.All jobs are like this. If you don't agree to do more than your job, you won't have one...my last job, I did several other jobs constantly.I never said anything about not wanting to but I'm not doing the work of 8 people, and getting paid $9.00.I'm having the same problem as many others on here. Right now the job I have is a seasonal job which sucks and is only giving me about 5 hours a week right now! I graduated from?College?last Dec and since then I've only had a part-time job as?Cashier?at a tool store that's a competitor of Harbor Freight which was one of my worse jobs I've ever had over the years and one day my manager got so snappy at me I got up and quit.I keep applying for full-time jobs, part-time jobs and such but I'm having no luck. I had an interview last week with a?collections?agency, but I didn't get called back and the whole job from what they told me was mostly commission based and low hourly pay and seemed pretty shady. I did have an interview on the phone briefly with a medical company and the lady was nice, but she told me they had a lot of applicants they're going over and trying to find them positions in the company.It seems like Craigslist works a bit better IMO when it comes to getting contacted back since they're in most cases smaller places that don't use those?hiring?software programs that weeds 80 percent of applicants out. I had another interview on the phone with an?insurance?office for?data entryand the guy was impressed with me, but told me I had too much experience for?data?entry?:(I also keep applying countless times to hospitals. Mostly office jobs, and even simple jobs like material handler. I've must have applied 50 times and each time I get rejected a week later. What is it with hospitals don't want to hire me for?clerical?work?I don't want a retail job, but these companies especially larger ones all want experience and qualified in all sorts of?computer?programs, and alaundry?list of other things. How is someone who's mostly worked retail andcustomer service?jobs who graduated college supposed to find?entry levelwork then? Even retail jobs right now want at least a couple years experience just for low level supervising.Pretty much my problem with retail is the hours...they want you avail 24/7 at a moments notice, and it prevents you from working a second job (which you need if you work retail, due to low pay)...I struggle with this as well, I spent an awful lot of money on an?education, trying to escape retail...and yet it is a job.Get away from the concept of a retail/commercial/ Christmas image. Try googling free Christmas ideas, plan a nice family gathering (old-fashioned) everyone brings a dish. Where on earth did we get the idea that it is only a merry Christmas if we slave ourselves to pay to celebrate? Rethink the holiday!!!Seriously...nothing more liberating than to convince the family to stop exchanging gifts...it puts a whole new light on the season as you watch frantic, craziness and you shrug, go home and bake a batch of cookies and plan a nice family vacation instead. Less stress, less work, more family time, less $$$, (create memories not a stockpile of worthless junk or bills to pay).You absolutely get my vote on that. In the course of the past five years, I have tried twice to do retail work, and what you say is exactly true. The second (and last) time I tried my hand at retail, I was hired by one of the big box stores for seasonal work for the holidays. My very first day on the job was Black Friday, and it was positively grueling, with almost non-stop work from the moment I stepped up to the cash register. I lasted a grand total of four days, when I threw in the towel after discovering I'd been scheduled to work one late-night shift and then was supposed to be back either later in the morning, or early that afternoon (I forget which). I might have been able to hack (or put up with) something like that back when I was in my twenties, but not anymore.The whole concept of staffing agencies just mystifies me. For the life of me, I can't figure out how the heck they stay in?business?(and, actually, I think a lot of them don't--I'm sure I've signed up with agencies that later disappeared off the face of the Earth). It just always seems like the person looking for a job has to spend an inordinate amount of time on the application process, and then weeks and months will pass by before being placed anywhere.?The only way I can think of for how the agencies might be able to pull this off is if they have so many candidates in their pool that they can draw from. That way, the agency always has people placed somewhere, but any given applicant might not be working at a particular time.?Whatever the explanation is, it's darned frustrating!I'm having the same problem as many others on here. Right now the job I have is a seasonal job which sucks and is only giving me about 5 hours a week right now! I graduated from?College?last Dec and since then I've only had a part-time job as?Cashier?at a tool store that's a competitor of Harbor Freight which was one of my worse jobs I've ever had over the years and one day my manager got so snappy at me I got up and quit.This reminds me of the two miserable experiences I've had in retail work since becoming unemployed.?As I was heading into my second full year without a job, I decided to take a job as a cashier at a little pet store near where I live. I figured that, since I love animals, I'd been a?customer?of the pet store for some time, working there might be worth a shot.?I lasted a grand total of about a month or two. The last night I was there, the cashier who was supposed to come in for the following shift called at the last minute to say she wasn't coming in, so I offered to stay an extra hour to help out. There was a lot of work to do, because the weekly shipment of products to be stocked on the shelves had come in. The stuff we had to stock included big, 30-pound bags of dog?food, and it was pretty strenuous work. After a full day of being on the job (with almost no time to scarf down my lunch), I was pretty tired.?Well, this one?assistant manager, who had been on my back all day about one thing or another, started hounding (no pun intended) me about where I'd placed a box of items that I was putting on the shelves. I'd finally had enough from this guy, and I just put down what I was doing, went to the manager, told her I was quitting, and left.?I think retail managers often just figure that the people they supervise are dummies whom they are free to insult.Pretty much my problem with retail is the hours...they want you avail 24/7 at a moments notice, and it prevents you from working a second job (which you need if you work retail, due to low pay)...I struggle with this as well, I spent an awful lot of money on an?education, trying to escape retail...and yet it is a job.Not sure if you were here when my son got his job in September. He's got a degree and 20+ years in?college?math and science tutoring. When that was pulled out from under him, he had 0 income for 3 years. He applied to all kinds of?fast food, big box stores, and nothing, until he checked the "overnight" availability box on the online app for WalMart. They called him within hours. Not his ideal, but it's same hours every night, he's settled into the routine of it and is socking away money for his next move, which may NOT be a master's degree anymore, due to everything talked about on this forum. I feel sorry for new college grads who find that their degree is very nearly useless today. He was repeatedly turned down for low level jobs due to over-qualification. But I guess overnight is so hard to staff nobody's 'overqualified'!I am convinced people who schedule retail and supermarket jobs have some sort of brain defect. That is SO common, go home at 11, come back sometimes at 6 or 7 even!! I worked retail for a few years when I was young and could NEVER get a lucid explanation for that practice.They are only allowed to staff the hours thecomputer?tells them will be high traffic, based on previous years store traffic. Which is why making out a regular schedule is virtually impossible. The mgt is limited in ability to change as the computer red flags any requests outside the computer recommendations. Can't even save hours from one point to use in another...(ie: can't use a human brain...because the computer is supposedly smarted).I find it hard to believe WalMart goes by that guideline. They had lines into next WEEK last night and about 4 cashiers. This is usually the case in that store, no matter what hour or day you go in. They are clueless. And the managers (and I use the word loosely), most store managers don't know how to do all the jobs anymore, so they're no help. They stand around with a walkie talkie in their back pocket. Useless.Banking?is the same way. If you want to be a teller, having "Open Availability" puts you ahead of the pack. Your schedule changes from week to week.Tip: Avoid Walmart on weekends, school holidays and the first week of the month. Try and go before 9:00 AM.My sister worked there.his reminds me of the two miserable experiences I've had in retail work since becoming unemployed.?As I was heading into my second full year without a job, I decided to take a job as a?cashier?at a little pet store near where I live. I figured that, since I love animals, I'd been a?customer?of the pet store for some time, working there might be worth a shot.?I lasted a grand total of about a month or two. The last night I was there, the cashier who was supposed to come in for the following shift called at the last minute to say she wasn't coming in, so I offered to stay an extra hour to help out. There was a lot of work to do, because the weekly shipment of products to be stocked on the shelves had come in. The stuff we had to stock included big, 30-pound bags of dog?food, and it was pretty strenuous work. After a full day of being on the job (with almost no time to scarf down my lunch), I was pretty tired.?Well, this one?assistant manager, who had been on my back all day about one thing or another, started hounding (no pun intended) me about where I'd placed a box of items that I was putting on the shelves. I'd finally had enough from this guy, and I just put down what I was doing, went to the manager, told her I was quitting, and left.?I think retail managers often just figure that the people they supervise are dummies whom they are free to insult.Yea the?assistant?manager I had was treating me like an A$$. My final day there I was simply going to count my drawer down because my shift was over and she started getting on my case for not setting my receipts on the table close enough to her. That was the final straw and I just said I quit and stormed out.Something's up with this, have experienced this myself.?Also, the?bilingual?thing. If I went to France, would I expect the?Frenchwaiter, the French?cashier, the French medical receptionist, the French nurse, the French banker...to learn MY language?As long as people go along with this and get bullied into learning another language to make it easier for others (not you), it will continue to get worse. You won't be able to get a job if you speak English, that day is coming.Retail sucks. My last two retail jobs have been hell. That is all I can find though.?Full time?jobs in offices want experience with certain?computer?programs, medical terminology, etc. So that leaves retail as the only option.They cut my hours down to zero almost right now. I keep trying to apply for full-time work or even part time work in a office, anything but retail but no luck. I have a degree I have like 40 grand in loans and look where it has got me. A waste of money it was getting a?business?degree. It has opened no doors for me. Heck it might be worse because it makes me overqualified for lower jobs.There needs to be a way to get this word out, about useless degrees these days. Same in my family, son has 40,000 out in student loans, works at WalMart overnight. Colleges are still promoting how they'll get you a job in your field. Bullcrap!The word is getting out but slowly. Enrollment in trade schools/programs is way up. Corporate certification programs are on the rise. Many colleges are seeing steep declines in the "liberal arts" majors and many?financialinstitutions are starting to pull out of the?college?loan?business.People won't listen. I've tried it. I was told by some students that our school says you're just trying to discourage us or that I was just a "negative" person. They won't get it until they do it and knock on 1000 doors and find out there are no jobs.?The students all think they are the next big thing and it seems the schools now really pump them up to be aggressive. "If you're good, you'll get a job!".College?admission officers are just as sleazy as used car salesmen. LOL!"Trade" schools are a real problem too. They are charging people really exorbitant amounts to attend, like they are holding some key to a future. It's not just the liberal arts colleges...?The trade schools lie and sell a lot of broken dreams.A lot of the?healthcare?trade schools are bad. High prices for saturated fields and low quality educations.Everything is marketing now. They want people to believe that aneducation?will save them. It did several decades ago. A college educated person was more likely to get any job, and do better overall in life. Not now. That person now is the boss' nephew or neighbor or girlfriend.It really doesn't matter what you know.This is why things are so bad now. You get poor quality, bad?customer service, crappily made products.We all know that any product or service is only as good as the people making it or designing it.Employees are everything.But we cannot expect those people on Capitol Hill to stop it because they are the masters of this a**holery.The school also said they always?hiring?for work study positions or part time and said there was a job for everyone at the school. I must have applied for like 20 jobs there and never even got a call back or interview. Again they always seemed to hire girls for the position. Even minority males don't get hired much at school.Overall though it seems the job market is the hardest for white males. I'm not trying to sound like a racist but it seems us white males have a hard time. While women seem to outnumber men most places I see.I agree with you on the temp agencies being sleazy and you are more than likely correct on them just updating their records on you. Should you decide to call them, just tell them up front you want Temp to Perm or Direct Hire Only.?That way you can avoid all the games, lies and promises that they tend to do all the time.I avoid all temp agencies like the plague because they always tend to stretch the truth when it comes to assignments. I now tell them up front to give me something in writing, if they can't provide that, then I move on and tell them to delete me from their system and to stop all solicitations. :)The school also said they alwayshiring?for work study positions or part time and said there was a job for everyone at the school. I must have applied for like 20 jobs there and never even got a call back or interview. Again they always seemed to hire girls for the position. Even minority males don't get hired much at school.Overall though it seems the job market is the hardest for white males. I'm not trying to sound like a racist but it seems us white males have a hard time. While women seem to outnumber men most places I see.It's not racist, it's factual.?Many large companies have big diversity programs and pay diversity officers top dollar to work for them. It's the price of doing?business?with thegovernment.It's not racist, it's factual.?Many large companies have big diversity programs and pay diversity officers top dollar to work for them. It's the price of doing?business?with the?government.Tell me about it. I happen to go to the VA once with my dad while he was getting a blood test and while I was sitting there I saw an minority there and her badge said something like "diversity?coordinator" all she did for the 45 mins I was there was lean against the counter BS with her coworkers. She probably makes 70k a year wasting tax money as well. No wonder why the post office is broke.It's amazing how much BS goes on in companies as well as government agencies. Both are filled with waste like this.Tell me about it. I happen to go to the VA once with my dad while he was getting a blood test and while I was sitting there I saw an minority there and her badge said something like "diversitycoordinator" all she did for the 45 mins I was there was lean against the counter BS with her coworkers. She probably makes 70k a year wasting tax money as well. No wonder why the post office is broke.It's amazing how much BS goes on in companies as well as?governmentagencies. Both are filled with waste like this.I agree. I worked at one place about 10 years ago. One of them with a fancy office and rumor had it she made over 100k. Just a job going to seminars, dinners, etc.The system is so broke, but no one wants to get to the real problem. It's like they are trying to put frosting on a dead cow and pretend it's all going to work.?"They" don't want to admit that the universe is a very unfair place and some people get more in the way of brains and talent than others. That just doesn't feel okay to some people and they keep saying everyone is the same.As long as people go along with this and get bullied into learning another language to make it easier for others (not you), it will continue to get worse. You won't be able to get a job if you speak English, that day is coming.That day has been here for last 10-12. I see so many jobs I qualify for, but then get to the bi-lingual part. At times I see Polish,?Chinese,?German, but of course nothing like Spanish. Sometimes the first thing I see in all caps is 'Must be Bi-lingual (Spanish) I NEVER understood why this suddenly became the norm. It's ok for them to come here, get a job, get?governmentassistant?and don't even have to speak the language. It seems pretty cozy and no wonder they want to get over here by any means necessary.I get more and more frustrated and angry when I see that I'm qualified and then get weeded out because of the language thing. If you are going to LIVE and WORK in a country, why is ok for you to not speak the language? I don't get it. And even worse is it seems like it's OUR fault and we're looked down if we can't communicate in Spanish. It really puts me into a rage. Even worse, those that do manager to learn some English (young ones mostly) now have the upper hand because now they are bi-lingual and can get better opportunities. The kids in grammar school now better 100% learn a couple other languages.English is the?business?language of the World.?Spanish, except for Spain and maybe places like Argentina, are 3rd world nations.?So why would we want to learn Spanish?If you go to Japan, Germany, etc., they will all do business in English.I don't like being bullied into it either, and I don't like my tax dollars giving people free medicine and free?college?educations when I am a citizen and I do not qualify for those things.This country is not a limitless well of money. Eventually, very few will be working and this huge umbrella of people coming here and getting on the dole in some way or every way is going to break the backbone of the US.Something I just heard on the so called "news": talking about the shift from democrat to republicans, some woman pundit (didn't catch her name) claimed that "many people feel the job market isn't working for them, but if you look at the statistics, the jobs are working for them."Oh where does someone start with that idiotic statement?? Lower wages? Worse jobs? Part time vs?full time? Hitting the out of touch B upside the head with a bat?The last few years around November or so the?administration?reports unemployment is down, but it turns out most of them are seasonal retail jobs then the numbers go back up in Jan. Plus those numbers don't count who's unemployment benefits have ran out and underemployed people.It was painfully obvious to anybody with a brain that this woman is totally clueless. Of course seasonal jobs increase around the holidays. For the past few years, part time and low pay job creation has been outpacing the well paid (living wage) positions that used to be so readily available.Rush Limbaugh has been calling the?admin?out on it too and says the same thing we are saying basically. I recall last month Limbaugh mentioned the Sept job numbers and then mentioned how 80 percent of the jobs created were jobs that were low wage, part time and don't require a degree and he also mentions how 40 percent of recent?college?graduates are unemployed or under employed.Did I write this? lol, you feel just like me right now. Right down to being willing to bust my ass for a chance. I was just sitting here at my?computer?and a job I interviewed for about 3 weeks ago popped into my head (that job is long and dead I'm sure) but it just hit me that, yet again, no one wanted me and I can't get a second chance. I really feel like I will never work again.I'm finding the same problems with you applying. All I'm finding is managerial/director?jobs, analysts/IT, or?health?related jobs--things I'm not remotely qualified for. Those are just all over. And anything?clerical?wants everything under the sun and then some plus?bilingual. I'm hitting a brick wall.I'm finding the same thing. I don't think it's even worth applying to some of these jobs anymore, I already know the answer is no. I hate to say this, but I'm so discouraged and unmotivated that I just want to bury myself under my covers and never come out.I'm finding the same thing. I don't think it's even worth applying to some of these jobs anymore, I already know the answer is no. I hate to say this, but I'm so discouraged and unmotivated that I just want to bury myself under my covers and never come out.Me too. And it's just not my situation. Going out into the world looks bleak. Everything is starting to look like a 3rd world nation. Low wages, low manners, low expectations, low quality. Nothing will change until the real problems are addressed, like WHY the lack of jobs, WHY the high crime rates. It's not what CNN is going to tell you. They think the economy is just dandy.To me, it looks like what happens is that the people whose careers aren't derailed continue to be able to use their past successes and good fortune to continue moving farther up the job ladder. Meanwhile, the rest of us who have been left behind are just left in an endless loop of either having no job or, out of desperation, taking the crummy ones in retail or temping, and we'll never escape.There are people whose careers have never been derailed as you say and I was actually one of them until it happened.One book I read said that in the future, 50% of us will be employed by thegovernment. 25% of us will have our own businesses and the other 25% will be herding goats for a living: flipping burgers, stocking shelves, delivering pizzas, etc.After two downsizes and one termination, I feel the same way. My working days are coming to an end and I can opt for early SS next year, deliver pizzas part time and eat off the dollar menu.However, I don't want this for my daughter so we have had some very different conversations from the ones I heard growing up. She knows that no job is forever anymore.My parents need to realize this. They kept pushing me and my siblings towards?college?like a degree would open so many doors for us. It hasn't done squat for me. I just wasted a lot of time, money, and self-esteem. They keep pushing me to go back, like I did something wrong the first time. I keep telling them nothing is a guarantee anymore. Having a bachelors degree is a dime a dozen now. It doesn't guarantee a stable career like it used to.?But whenever I tell them this they just act like I'm lazy and not trying hard enough.A bachelors is the new H.S. diploma and a Masters is the new Bachelors. I also feel like it's a double edged sword. I've had employers nod happily over my degree, point it out, be all 'oh we can give you more assignments since you have a bachelors!' never heard back. On the flip side, others DEMAND a bachelors for washing dishes and vacuuming and answering phones (and those places don't call back either)I feel foolish and worthless at times proving I have a degree to come in and sit at your?front desk, like we should be proud to graduate and come push your mail cart. A long time ago you didn't need a degree for everything. Now, technology and economy has made things unbearable and they needed a new weeding system. I saw it race wise too. When a certain group were all getting bachelors, then suddenly you NEEDED a MASTERS to qualify.I'll never forget being the receptionist and this girl telling me I should go back to school. Yep, already graduated. She was knocked out. That was a bit degrading.I have had this conversation with many people including my own daughter. She is in?college?now but carefully avoiding the worthless degrees and those professions which can easily be automated or off-shored.I had a good job right out of high school but that's Ancient History now.My degree falls into the category of worthless. God, I wish I had been steered away from that degree. Having been told all of my life that all I needed was a college degree to succeed, I didn't know any better. I did what I thought was interesting and also what I was talented in. Looking back, I now can tell everyone was lying to me with smiles on their faces. Top of my class and I can't find a job. What does that say about the program, or better yet, the school?All of medicine is like this now. People got told the jobs could not be outsourced. But many places are cutting staff, making jobs per diem, not offering benefits, or cutting pay rates.People buy into the marketing of schools.?For some reason, schools are thought of as good authorities or benevolent. They aren't as they are just businesses.My niece went the med?assistantroute. What they don't tell you is that you 1. Need to speak Spanish and 2. You need experience. She worked in a nursing home to get experience and she said that was the toughest job she ever had.She is a medical biller now and she says that is become automated more and more.These employers think everyone speaks Spanish. I guess it will be in the future as we are forced out of our nation.Hey, you and me both. I thought I was the only one with the revolving door. I'd like to know how there are so many people who feel secure with their jobs though. When I was working, I never felt safe enough to buy a condo or home. I lived frugally like each check could be my last. But I look around me and see people buying homes, new cars, vacations, living it up. How do they do it? What fields do they work in that are so secure?Me too! I thought I was the only one terrified to even lease a 2 year?contract?car for fear I wouldn't be able to make the payments when I inevitably lost my job.?I don't think I'll ever feel secure in a job. I don't think I'll ever own a home for this reason. It's very sad, because I do want my own home in the future. But with my job instability, it's just too risky to think about.After two downsizes and one termination, I feel the same way. My working days are coming to an end and I can opt for early SS next year, deliver pizzas part time and eat off the dollar menu.However, I don't want this for my daughter so we have had some very different conversations from the ones I heard growing up. She knows that no job is forever anymore.I have worked call centers and its pretty godawful. When they call you a stupid, f**king b1tch, you can't take it personally.Those places are so abusive, it's like slavery. Right now, it appears employers can pretty much do anything they want. Unless you have enough money to kill them in?court, and then if you had that, probably wouldn't be working said job.Retirement is a fantasy for some of us. I have a cousin who is a teacher and she complains that her pension probably won't be enough. She owns a home. I told her that those of us not in govt jobs do not get pensions, we have to use our own money to supplement SS. She had no clue. She stopped the whining to me.People with pensions don't get it. When you have a pension you don't have to save 1 penny your self for retirement. And it's guaranteed. It's free money!Then again I think we will start seeing more and more Detroits where pensions are not totally guaranteed and are reduced 5 - 10 percent.If I ever get to hire people again I'll discriminate. I'll try to offer jobs just to unemployed candidates.It's a b*tch out there. No matter what one does it's tough. I once went to an interview where the interviewer ask me a question and I answered it well then I added, "I don't mind starting at the bottom to get my foot in the door."Well he said, "This position is not a bottom type job!!!" My point is that you can't win no matter what you do or say. Wear glasses don't wear them, wear the skirt, go with pants instead. Sigh. :(My parents need to realize this. They kept pushing me and my siblings towards?college?like a degree would open so many doors for us. It hasn't done squat for me. I just wasted a lot of time, money, and self-esteem. They keep pushing me to go back, like I did something wrong the first time. I keep telling them nothing is a guarantee anymore. Having a bachelors degree is a dime a dozen now. It doesn't guarantee a stable career like it used to.But whenever I tell them this they just act like I'm lazy and not trying hard enough.Yeah that's kind of a disease of parents these days. Fortunately, I was unemployed the same time as my son, who has moved back home after 25 years, so I had a clue. But your folks are just eating what they're fed by the media and the?government.Also I checked with someone I use as a reference and they have said they have never got a call or email from any employers. That means they don't like my work history or my?education?and it just ends up in the dumpster.?I just got my rejection from the Container store. My life finally sucks.Isn't just the last kick in the face you needed? This is what needs to be shown to people who say 'you need to just take any job' I don't care if it's wrapping hamburgers, wrapping presents or stocking shelves, you still have to be HIRED.I really like the Container Store too. I wouldn't mind working there. But I never worked retail, I wonder if they would hire me.Isn't just the last kick in the face you needed? This is what needs to be shown to people who say 'you need to just take any job' I don't care if it's wrapping hamburgers, wrapping presents or stocking shelves, you still have to be HIRED.I really like the Container Store too. I wouldn't mind working there. But I never worked retail, I wonder if they would hire me.I have a degree and have applied for retail and I'm having no luck as well. I did have a interview with that?collections?agency which was a joke they never called back but I could tell from the interview it was min wage when I tried to ask about the pay.I apply for everything and I'm not having any luck.I take?general?advice from these advisers and gurus with a boulder of salt. You're better off going with someone who either works or specializes in reciting in your work field.Career counselors, career gurus, life coaches...all the same thing. I went to one once and wasted some money there. It's not like they know more than you. It's just a lot of positive thinking. Wishing, hoping. Unless someone really understands your field inside and out, it's a waste of time to me. You can find what you need better on the net. Heck, that's where they find it.People with pensions don't get it. When you have a pension you don't have to save 1 penny your self for retirement. And it's guaranteed. It's free money!Then again I think we will start seeing more and more Detroits where pensions are not totally guaranteed and are reduced 5 - 10 percent.Yeah, it's not fair to tax me and give it to someone else so they can retire and have an income and free?healthcare. Some of those people, we support them longer than they even worked, too.This was a huge complain't about unions, so most people were glad to get rid of them...so now, all we have are really?government?unionized people.I bet a lot of people wish we had the unions back, if only for just the workers' rights, pay and representation.My sales job is only paying minimum wage. After I pay for gas, I am only making $300 a week. The manager told me I would be making 35K a year...rah right!!! The jobs sucks and I spend a good 20 hours a week?cleaning?too. The store isn't that busy and there are too many sales people now. You have to sell 20K every 2 weeks in order to get commission. If not, you get your stinking minimum wage!! Lies, lies, lies!!! Still can't afford to buy groceries either. Who can live on $1200 a month??Yea a lot of them sales jobs are scams. Unless you sell a lot you're making near min wage hence why turnover is probably so high.A lot of jobs these days are scams. I mean by the amount of work required. Like office jobs with whole?laundry?list of duties and qualifications but only pay $10 an hour to do the work of 3 people.Also I graduated from Webster University in Stl? Is that a bad school you think when compared to SLU and Washington U here in St. Louis?Did I waste my $$?I don't think any different university matters now.Well folksI got offered the?clerical?job at the?attorney?office. It starts on the 24th and pays $24,000 a year. The salary is a bit disappointing since that is what I was making 6 years ago and does not further my career at all. I feel like I've taken a step back. It is steady income though and if I can find a tolerable, older, mature roommate, livable. In the meanwhile, I have several other interviews to go too and hopefully I'll be offered something better before this new job starts. If not, I'll have to wait until I accrue PTO so that I can go on interviews for better jobs.I'll be sticking around and joining in nonetheless. I wish the rest of you luck in your job search.oh wow! YAYAYAYA!!!! Listen, I want to say I'm so glad you got offered something. You were so stressed and on the verge of homelessness, and God did step in and drop something down on you. Just as you were about at your worst you get a job. It will be steady money and a?full time?job.But I definitely know what you mean about the money. It is very disappointing to do all this hustling to make what you were making years ago. That's how I feel. I'm applying to $10 an hour jobs, worse that what I was making before, so I will NEVER be able to get ahead, just backward or in the same place. It's depressing, but I'll take $10 an hour now. I'm just sick of this s#it. It had to feel good to finally be offered something. I'd cry for days if someone finally offered me something. I don't think I will ever be offered a job again. What will that feel like?I've got to figure out how to pay back my student loans before I start thinking about retirement. At this rate, I'll get around to retirement at age 45.Same here, my student loan has been on hold for payment since like forever due to constantly being laid off working temp jobs.?I figured by the time I get around to paying it back, I will be 85, or Jesus will come and then my loan will be written off. LOLMy degree falls into the category of worthless. God, I wish I had been steered away from that degree. Having been told all of my life that all I needed was a?college?degree to succeed, I didn't know any better. I did what I thought was interesting and also what I was talented in. Looking back, I now can tell everyone was lying to me with smiles on their faces. Top of my class and I can't find a job. What does that say about the program, or better yet, the school?I feel the same way, I graduated at top of my class with fellow school mates, didn't get offered one job and the school would send everyone job ads from Craigslist of all places, what a crock and a joke that was. Most of the attorneys they referred us to paid only Minimum wage as well.My niece went the med?assistantroute. She is a medical biller now and she says that is become automated more and more.Its sad that so many jobs have become automated.?I use to be a telephone operator, you know Dial Zero and you received me on the line, not anymore, at least here in CA. A lot of my friends were pushed into retirement early due to automation, I swear it's like the Terminator movie coming to life. GrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrNo luck still. That manager I talked to yesterday morning still has not called me back for an interview. I still got no hours at the dept store this week and still have not heard anything from the countless other apps I filled out.College?is useless unless you're going to be an?accountant, doctor or lawyer.Accountant jobs are being outsourced to India and the?law?field is over saturated. Even the practical BS or STEM degrees are no guarantees anymore.OK, am I the only one shocked by all the job postings with "ability to speak in Spanish or?bilingual" is required ??????? WTF ???Geeze, I would think since the land was taken from the Indians, we should / would be required to speak Navaho or something. Wow.Since when did the US become Spanish speaking ? WTH ????Sorry just frustrated today. Trying to apply for jobs but every single one has a second language requirement and the pay is $9 an hour. What a F**king Joke!!I'm talking Collier County too btw. One of the most expensive places in Florida to live. I think the average home price right now is $342,000 I last read. Granted that includes all of collier including Marco Island, Pelican Bay, Port Royal and the multi million dollar homes, but still that's high. Even Golden Gate aka Golden Ghetto is going up in price as well.That's cheap compared to home prices here in CA.?Even in the Ghetto / Low income areas, the houses usually start between 450k and up. It also amazes me how the Illegals qualify for these homes too, I just don't get it. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for fair?housing, but WTF, how can illegals afford to buy a house ???? I guess since they Don't pay taxes that's where they get their down payment ?I had a co worker back in the day brag about how she is Not a citizen and doesn't pay taxes since she lives and works in CA. I'm surprised someone hadn't called immigration on her azz. LOLSorry just frustrated today. Trying to apply for jobs but every single one has a second language requirement and the pay is $9 an hour. What a F**king Joke!!No, definitely not the only frustrated with that! There have been so many I couldn't apply to because of that. Oh and I just saw an ad today for a Word processor, wanting ACCURATE attention to detail, 70 wpm, etc. $10 an hour and no benefits. So depressing to see this kind of stuff. This is what's out there? You have to be an expert in MS Office, type 70 wpm, be 100% accurate all the time for $10 an hour and no benefits. Wow.And that's the sad part, I type 65wpm with accuracy too and it's just frustrating on what employers are paying these days. Then they have the balls to get pissed when they hear that your looking for part time work as well. Geeze, they just don't get that the economy along with cheap azz employers that people have to work two to three jobs for survival. Ughs!!I type 50, 55 on a good day, lol. It's pretty decent accuracy but I can still proofread and spellcheck. I mean what, I gotta type it and then immediately print? I can't fix mistakes? they need to stfu about that accuracy bulls#it. Employers just don't know (or care) what people have to do to still survive with a?full time?job. I have heard that co-workers were living in group homes, with family. My good friend lives with in her sisters studio and sleeps on the floor, we would always joke about when she got her ownapartment?she will finally have a door to close.I'm just so frustrated with what you have to have in order for them to even glance at your resume, and then they only want to pay $8 and $9 an hour, no benefits, work evenings and weekends. Indentured servitude.Its like legalized slavery without providing the home and board.?I saw on a Lisa Ling special on jobs located in North Dakota with companies not only paying $30 and up (for some jobs) but also providing room and board free. But of course your working 75 hours a week.I'm tempted to consider it but the tempature being below -3, is a deal breaker.LOLI'm making less money now than I was 22 years ago when I graduated high school. I haven't made less than $10.00 per hour since my sophomore year in high school, back when minimum wage $4.25 per hour. I've always had a strong work ethic and a willingness to do hard jobs that other people tend to shy away from. My job in high school was working in a car wash for Tractor Trailers... ever have to clean a cattle or hog trailer? You earned every dime of that $10 per hour. I've been an?Industrial/CommercialElectrician?and made $35 per hour with full benefits, but because of a poor economy work dried up, I started building and maintaining pools and hot tubs for $13.50 per hour, but it was?full time?and year round work (seems there's still people out there buying lots of luxury items.) One day I got hurt, had surgery, and was fired for a BS reason even though everyone knew it was really because I caused the company?insurance?to go up. Was out of work over a year, started going back to?college?to get a degree in?draftingand?design?(halfway there,) and so far the best job I've gotten is working part time at the local Office Max for $8.50 an hour.I'm 40 years old and working part time for $8.50... I get paid every 2 weeks and make less on my checks than I made on unemployment. Of course in 3 days, I'm losing this job now too. Thanks to a corporate merger with Office Depot, our store is closing. They offered job transfers to some of the employees, but only the full timers (aka, the GM, the ASM, the Print Center Supervisor, and the senior?logistics?associate) basically the people with a set of keys to the building.I've got a wife, I've got 3 kids, and somehow people expect me to make ends meet with no income. Thankfully my wife has a decent job that keeps us afloat, but without my income we can't cover expenses. Last time I was out of work, I went and applied for?federal?aid, guess what, we didn't qualify. Less than $1000 per month income...Job openings are on the rise — so why isn’t the U.S.hiring?Maybe because Barak Obama is still in office?The economy is broken. Jobs are broken. He has no frackin' idea how to fix things so he avoids it.Yep, I've never had any luck with those?government?run career centers either. When I was in South Florida I spent several months jumping through humps trying to get them to pay for some career training. All I was trying to get was MOS (Word, Excel, Outlook, Access, Powerpoint, Publisher) certified. When my unemployment ran out I ended up having to take a 35 hour a week, $9.00 an hour job that conveniently had me listed as per-Diem despite the fact that I consistently worked 35 hours every week. No?health?insurance, barely able to make ends meet, living in a rented room in a rundown house from some crazy old perv, raking up?creditcard debt what I was barely able to make minimum payments on every time my car had issues. But as far as they were concerned I was employed and no longer eligible for job training funding. And the career assessment they administered to me gave?factory?worker as my ideal job because, lovely.I read online from a job coach that you should always end an interview with the following: "Thank you. I look forward to being part of the team. I want the job." I've used it a few times but it doesn't get me the job.Job coaches, in my humble opinion, are right up there with temp agencies. Useless. There IS no generic method for everybody.Tell me about it. This is the 2nd time I've seen a job coach/careercounselor?and felt it really didn't amount to a whole lot. She wants me to take another career test.By the way, she wanted me to E-Mail me my re-vamped résumé so I E-Mailed her the new functional one expecting feedback, nothing. She never returned my E-Mail. And I had to wait about a week to get into see this lady because she and the others were all booked.Seriously, just what is the?college?paying her to do?...but when I see so many hires being made on the basis of personal recommendations and personal connections, I lose hope about a random resume sent to a stranger having much effect.Keith in Lorain, Ohio said:?Thank you for helping me prove my point. Networking is for people that already know and trust each other. As another poster somewhere here once said, "You'll never be as qualified as the bosses new son-in-law."Unless you're lucky like the ones you spoke of, there will always be someone within a company or some relative or friend to take that job before any job listing is made for the public.This is why I'd really like a?government?job.?City, county, state or?federal.. I wouldn't care which level picked me up. I'd be happy to get a government job because a lot of the crap that happens in the private sector when it comes to?hiring?and even being employed isn't going to happen with the government because it's illegal for it to even happen in the first place. Not to mention, you have way more jobs security than you do in the private sector what's you finish your probationary period. At that point, it becomes hard to get rid of someone.Charmed existences. I try very hard to ignore them or wish they were worse off. But some people are OBLIVIOUS to the?general?struggle in the world. I wonder if there's a forum for them. It could be called "I've got mine, and if you don't, oh well...." My son runs a 501c3 a homeless charity out of Boston, He and his fiancee' are raising her grandson, they've got nothing to speak of, he works a 40-hour week,behind in bills, sleeps about 4 hours a night, but is driven to do this thing for other people. Imagine if rich people had that drive???! If Bill Gates would put some of his billions into building?housing?for people who are on the street instead of pouring it ALL into other countries. Permanent housing in every majorcity, for the homeless and disabled. That would be like lunch money for people like him. I just don't get it.Bill Gates doesn't care about Americans. He is very much into the overseas guilt trip.'m in a position where I need?healthcare?insurance?right now. This job doesn't offer it. Prior to Obamacare, I always had my own healthcare coverage that was either purchased from a broker or directly from the company (BCBS, Aetna, Humana, Assurant, Celtic, UniCare, etc...) and it was something I could easily afford for myself. (I usually had deductibles ranging from $1,500 to as high as $7,500 and paid anywhere from $80 a month to as much as $190 a month.) However, post Obamacare?healthinsurance is so expensive I just can't afford it on my own. Plans at my age start at $176 a month and to avoid having to chose a new doctor and other providers, I'd have to choose a plan that cost more than $200 a month as all the cheaper plans are either HMO or limited network plans. Not to mention, the deductibles are much higher now unless you want to pay an insane amount to get a low deductible or no deductible plan. Prior to cancelling my Assurant Health plan at the end of 2013, I was paying $116.45 a month for a $5,000 deductible. I guess $176 a month isn't all that bad unless you're looking for a company to dictate your care or force you into choosing new providers.Anyhow, as expensive as healthcare has become (even?dental?and vision has gone up), there's just no way I could make Vector work. I'd be looking at a huge chunk of my pay to try and cover myself health wise.You know what's really frustrating? All this part-time crap. I wound anadmin?assistant?position with a real estate office (B&W) that was just weekends only.Thee Supreme?Court?is getting ready to hear and argument that everyone living in a state that goes through the federally run Marketplace is illegally getting a subsidy. 4.5 million people could end up loosing their subsidies.If I knew that wasn't going to happen, I wouldn't have a problem with accepting a part-time job.Sure. Some people are going to say don't let that stop you from signing up for Obamacare and taking a subsidy. However, if I did that, took a part-time job ad then lost the subsidy, I'd be in sh*t hole 6 feet deep because there's no way I could afford?health?insurance?right now on my own.I ended up telling the guy with Vector Marketing he was better off at targeting young people 18-26 who are still on their parents health insurance policies, SAHMs, like my former co-worker Camile, who are looking for work during the school year to keep them occupied, and SAHMs, like my friend Dina, who’ve been home a few years with their young kids but who want to get back into the workforce now that their kids are older and in school. People like Camile and Dina have SOs who they can rely on and who may have them covered under their employer sponsored health insurance policy.Someone like myself is just screwed period. I can't make part-time work in this day and age.Don't employers care?You know what's really frustrating? All this part-time crap. I wound an?admin?assistant?position with a real estate office (B&W) that was just weekends only.Don't employers care?I saw a job for weekends only. I saved it and went back to it a few times but just decided that would not be enough money for me to even bother with. I'd be working, sure, but that is for someone who truly ONLY needed for something for the weekends, I'm sure that schedule works for someone. I see more and more part time. Scary.Oh and no, employers don't care. I got a rejection notice with the standard "we went with someone who closely fits our qualifications" that's what they care about. A 100% fit.I see more and more part time. Scary.Yes, it's scary. From what I can gather here, no one really wants to be working part-time.I think employers who want to fill part-time work are going to find themselves struggling more and more to fill it. What's eventually going to happen is we're going to end up with a nation with a ton of part-time work that's going to start going unfilled for months and months, if not longer, on end.The plastics company wants me to do even more assessments.I'm so damn tired of assessments. I can't believe they're making me go through all these hoops for this job. I'm starting to think this isn't worth it.omg, those assesments are such a waste of time and mean nothing! I'm so sick of these places with these stupid tests like you're applying to the FBI. Then they don't hire you anyway. More than once I didn't bother with jobs that wanted this. I just can't do it anymore. These places need to stop.?omg, those assesments are such a waste of time and mean nothing! I'm so sick of these places with these stupid tests like you're applying to the FBI. Then they don't hire you anyway. More than once I didn't bother with jobs that wanted this. I just can't do it anymore. These places need to stop.Just how honest are people going to be with these things anyhow? Like people are really going to admit they do drugs on the job, that it's okay to steal while on the clock, etc... . Desperate times call for answers everyone wants to see from an assessment. If you're a druggie or kleptomaniac of course you're not going to say you agree or strongly agree with doing drugs at work or stealing now and paying later.This is the 2nd assessment that plastics company has made me take and the 2nd time they've asked me all these yes and no type questions and what have you. I suppose I'll find another E-Mail in my inbox tomorrow asking me to do more of this crap. Can't they just give me the damn interview now? How long do they really want to drag this out? It's a miracle they hire someone to work there given all this.I heard that Congress wants to do something about these assessment and personality tests because they stop good people from being hired. I once had an employer tell me that unless you 'pass' the test they gave you, you weren't even going to get an interview. SERIOUSLY? That's crazy! You could be the greatest at whatever you do and have been doing it for years but unless you 'pass' you won't even get the time of day. That's just messed up.I've been gone a few days but I'm pretty pissed.As you know I was working at Macy's and getting hardly any hours for the season position I got. Anyways I saw an ad on Craigslist for a temp agencyhiring?for?call center?reps 40 hours a week for a couple months. So I interviewed with the temp manager. Nice guy, but went to the first day of work today and it sucked. It was more confusing and a pain than I thought it was. A lot of rules, and a lot of pressure to get results. Anyways one person even got kicked out. The?instructor?thought he wasn't paying attention even though he was because he was on the same page I was on and was looking at her. The job also paid only like 8.50 an?hr?too and they changed our hours up wanted us to work 1-8 instead of 2-9 which that part wasn't a big deal.The place looked like a joke and I can see why their turnover is high.IT was funny I met another girl there who worked at a Macy's in another part of time the same position I had. She told me the same thing they got hardly any hours there and that's why she quit.I'm thinking what they do is Macy's hires like in Sept for the seasonal positions but they only work you a few hours a week just to train you and then around black Friday and the couple weeks before Christmas give you a bunch of hours. Otherwise you get about 4-8 hours a week.When I worked therein 2008 in a seasonal position they gave a lot more hours and did not skimp like that.What kind of a job works you 4 hours a week???Some companies prey on the unemployed -- here, you are allowed to refuse jobs that aren't within a certain % of your salary for 8 weeks. After that, you have to take anything. One company I worked for would call in people they knew were unemployed and offer them minimum wage or close to it, threatening to report them to the unemployment bureau if they declined.My brother lives in NJ. They apparently have very strict "standards" (used very loosely). Unemployed must attend regular meetings at the ue office. Must apply to ANY thing. If one had been a rocket scientist, they were still required to to apply for everything including?janitorial, everything and anything.One issue with that is all supposedly open jobs get inundated with resumes of people who have no experience in any way shape or form in any related or even semi related field.Can anyone imagine going from $100k a year to a min wage job (if they could get accepted)? That would not cover any part of their expenses. Matter of fact, it would create more expenses since the person would have to use their car (with related expenses like gas,?insurance, wear and tear) to get to a job that would likely not even cover the gas......Yes, that is how it works here after the 8 week period. It's not worth the hassle, stigma, and stress for someone coming from a 100k job.I can understand that the govt. is trying to give people an incentive to work, but it doesn't do anyone any good to have a rocket scientist flipping burgers instead of adding value doing what they have been trained to do -- and, yeah, who wants someone who doesn't know how to work in a restaurant working in one? Just because a job doesn't pay well doesn't mean that it doesn't require a lot of skill.It's interesting to see how?hiring?practices have evolved or devolved now that it's easy for a person to send out 100 resumes in a day and also easy for an employer to discard a thousand in five minutes with keyword algorithms.And what the employer I knew of would do is hire extremely skilled people for nearly minimum wage -- if they knew you were unemployed but had far more experience than they could afford, they would offer you a 1/3-1/2 the market wage and make references during the interview about how you had to take any job that was offered if you were on unemployment.I never pass them either. I've had my mom sit down and do them for me even friends and nothing. I don't know what they want, what they're looking for, etc... . Complete waste of time. Mine and theirs.You know what is funny, a lady in my bible study class, her son had to take an assessment test and didn't pass it, he was more than qualified for adesigner?artist?job, so he called the manager and told him, can't you look at my skills, schooling etc. and see that I'm qualified ? The manager told her son to take the test again and of course he failed. Well her son challenged the manager to take the test, Guess what, the manager failed! The manager in turn had another manager take the test and he failed too. Needless to say, Her son got the job and the managers are looking into getting rid of the assessment testing all together now. :)I somewhat agree with Mom. However, my son and his degree were running into the same problem, he couldn't even get an interview for a BS job, until he checked the "overnight shift" availability box on WalMart's online app. He was called within a few hours, got hired and is currently enduring it and biding his time to put together some money to get a Master's in math. In Florida. I hate him. LOL.This is all too familiar. We are told we need companies open 24/7 because that's what the?customer?wants, but it's more like the company putting out a larger net to get more fish...it's all hidden under the concept of "convenience".Gone is the 40 hour, M-F week.?Gone is the 8-5 job.?But you notice the management isn't usually there when you work nights or holidays.It's like the concept of the American standard of living has dropped very low.The?government?tells us about all this job growth but reality is most of the job growth is season, low paying retail jobs that are min wage because I don't see many good jobs. It's mostly retail or service industry.They lie to us about everything, including the crime rates.?The government cares more about foreigners than its citizens.Maybe the North American Union is upon us.?Why I cannot watch CNN or any of the others for what is really going on.You have to get out of St. Louis!True. We will see possibly tomorrow how bad it gets here if they reach a decision. This grand jury thing keeps dragging on.Read that they are sending over 100 fbi into that area but police are not allowed to touch protesters per holder. Interesting how they will do their jobs...My nephew is in?law enforcement. They are to keep all weapons holstered unless imminent life is in danger.Obama reversed Posse Comitatus a few years ago.?Federal?troops CAN be used to quell civil unrest now.I doubt any of them will use their weapons against any violence in the area, because they don't want to wind up with the kind of trouble that Wilson has.Obama has reversed a lot of things in this country.Including what little prosperity was left after Bush.The protesters are just agitators and are connected to the govt, which is why their groups demanded to know the verdict before the?general?public. They wanted to be able to "organize" and get ready. This is how communism works.Including what little prosperity was left after Bush.Yes, and inviting more and more people into this nation. It's not just Mexico. Thousands are getting visas. All of the diseases we killed off will come back in.?As far as jobs, they will get first dibs on jobs courtesy of the?government.?I went all this year of unemployment without?insurance?BECAUSE of the subsidy. I was eligible for great subsidies, but read the fine print and the FAQ's. Once you get on your feet, The Uncle is going to be there with his hand out for you to pay it back. I would've owed thousands back in subsidies. When our?government?smiles in our face and tells us how well they are going to take care of us because we're too stupid to take care of ourselves, these small things, they don't mention. I'll take the fine, thanks, it's cheaper.WHAT??You mean is we are getting Obamacare, we have to eventually pay that back?Could you give me a link to a web page for this I want to read this before I start cussing and swearing.They MADE me sign up against my will so now they are going to take my money against my will? :-( :-( :-(Yes, and inviting more and more people into this nation. It's not just Mexico. Thousands are getting visas. All of the diseases we killed off will come back in.?As far as jobs, they will get first dibs on jobs courtesy of the?government.Yes, I stress this to people and they just won't listen. Some people are so ignorant.Yes, and inviting more and more people into this nation. It's not just Mexico. Thousands are getting visas. All of the diseases we killed off will come back in.?As far as jobs, they will get first dibs on jobs courtesy of the?government.Along with getting a low interest rate when applying for loans. :(I'm going to stop reading these forums for a bit. I understand that many of you are rightfully frustrated with the current state of employment in this country, but I've started to take on a very pessimistic view of the future. I think that this attitude mostly comes from what I read here. Being in touch with reality is necessary, but many of the posts here have started to take a very toxic turn toward stagnant depression. I wish everyone the best of luck!Take a break, we all do every now and then. We come back because here everyone is like family and the people here do know and understand exactly what your going through with the every day stress of looking for employment, dealing with the stupidity of employers, misleading advertistments etc.?Depression comes with being unemployed. So take that over due break and no need to announce your leaving, just do what you have to in order to keep your sanity. :)?Interveiw UpdateI asked the caller if they would consider experience and she said yes but that the 15 is standard because it comes with "at the end of the month bonuses depending on the quota of your work load". Which of course did not make sense to me at all, I don't like quota positions because it's a weight of pressure that lies on your shoulders and that kind of pressure I don't need, I'd rather have the $2 increase in pay rather then having to fight tooth and nail to meet quota standards etc.My feelings after the intital phone interview, is that it was just a waste of time and I wont be surprised if I don't receive a call back at all. :(Job searching really sucks!!!!I dont' like quota jobs either. I don't like it for 'bonuses' or for just a standard work day. I interviewed for a job like that (never heard back) and I'm kinda glad because I don't want to be called in about not making enough calls or doing enough work for the week. It's to stressful and jobs are stressful enough. I think that's just a way for them to keep from paying you anymore. They can hide behind 'you didn't make the quote this week/month' a job like that gets old real fast.To be fair, I'm looking to get any job at all and I can't get one. How am I supposed to feel when I'm apparently not good enough to bag groceries. I AM depressed.Burt Lange and KingofWisdom, I agree! After months and months it does take a tole to apply to hundreds of jobs and get enough interviews to count on one hand AND get rejected from those same interviews. I agree that some of the wage conversations I didn't agree with, but I didn't even read all of them because I didn't care for it. As much as we complain we do encourage each other. I do believe we will all get our day as long as we keep fighting. I'm glad I met you all, I NEEDED to complain, it kept me sane.I've offered to work for minimum wage and my schedule is currently wide open (until I can collect enough job money to go back to school). I still can't get a job in?fast food?joints or retail.Is the job market really that bad in SE FL? My aunt lives in Naples and is having a hell of a time finding part-time work. She can't even get on at Publix as a?cashier.Problem with parents' work advice is unless they are unemployed NOW, they don't get that it's way different than when we were younger. I'd get laid off, do a few weeks unemployment, find another job and go back to work. I never DIDN'T get a job I applied for. No crap from temp services, THEY worked for ME, and sent me to work. If didn't like a job, I'd quit and get something else immediately. And this is where a lot of your parents are living, in the distant past, thinking it's all the same. I might be the same way if I hadn't experienced this last year. And I HAVE experience and work history. I still could paper the walls with rejects. So don't let anybody make you feel like the problem is you.?It doesn't help that the interview process usually weeds out hard-working people for those who can act excited and outgoing. My brother got a job as a bag boy in Publix at 25 with no work experience and no volunteer work. He sent out very few applications while he sat at home and played video games. I was busy going to interviews and applying toentry?retail/restaurant jobs in the area. So far, nothing. I have a feeling too that the volunteer work I do will lead to a?fast food?job too, getting minimum wage. While my bro gets $8.50 an hour plus tips (not bad for a first job).Wow. He's 25 and never had a job before???Also I'm sure if one can speak Spanish can help get a job in FL too. When I lived down there a lot of the workers at Publix were Mexican or Cuban and a number of them didn't speak much English at all.Yeah, Spanish is more in demand here than English. I don't know Spanish either, even though my mom is Cuban. She came at a time when Hispanics were a minority, so she learned English and my dad also speaks English. Most kids here learn Spanish simply because the parents are too stubborn to speak English. The one thing I have going for me is that I am technically Hispanic, but I don't like to share my ethnicity on applications.I'm 22 with no work experience as well. We had naive, but good-intentioned parents who thought it would be a mistake to let us work. They didn't want our grades to suffer, and they also couldn't afford to give us a car. Now I'm trying to make the best of my situation.My parents made the same mistake. When I was a teen, I couldn't wait to turn 16 so that I could get a job. (I'd heard that it's illegal to work if you are under 16, though I've heard of some people who started working at 14).But my dad refused to allow me to work. He also refused to allow me to get my?driver's license until I was 18. (Money for a car was not an issue!)My dad would not allow me to do anything that might interfere with school and grades. To him,?college?was the most important thing in the world. Dad believed a college degree=a good job. He was from a very different era.My friends who had parents who allowed them to work during high school and college are doing far better than I am. I've heard that employers like to see that applicants started working at a young age.I never worked in high school, but it wasn't because I didn't need to, I just didn't. When I was about 20 or 21 I guess, I applied at this pizza place near home where my sister applied. At the interview the girl goes "you never worked before. That's odd" I felt so dumb. Of course not hired but my sis, who worked in HS did. I tried to use youth as long as I coukd, using going to school as to why I didn't have experience. I always hated how she said "that's odd" well maybe I didn't need to work. Not ever teen works.But I knew I was going to need something because I was getting old and I already hated filing out apps with nothing to write on them. I don't regretcollege?I just regret not getting a worthy degree. I saw an ad yesterday for a PART TIME receptionist at a grammar school. Wanted 5 years experience and a college degree. Sadly, I do need that degree. AND 5 years experience!I've been finding out that employers today, even larger ones, want more than just date of hire, date of separation, title, details about the position's duties, and salary and they want to hear directly from bosses, managers and supervisors otherwise you can forget it.I went to a job fair last month and the?HR?representative for Snap Diagnostics told me that unless I had boss, manager and supervisors they could talk to and who could say something good on my behalf, they weren't interested in pursing anything with me and that my letter of reference/recommendation from Camile wouldn't suffice.I met a guy at my?bus driver?interviewer, he'd been with?Boeing?for 25 years, well Boeing decided to shut down their office in Los Angeles and move to Mexico where?labor?(of course) is cheaper. They let every one go last month. He loss his home and is now renting a one bedroom for himself, wife and 15 month old baby.?Just sad. Your loyal to a company and they treat you like trash when greed comes into play.Does it bother anyone else when the online job application only specifies the job's location as (city?you're in)? Miami is a pretty big place, and I don't have a car, which is obviously why I need a job. I'm not going to apply to a position that's over ten miles away, especially when getting home might be an issue depending on the hours (since I'd be taking the bus). The least you can do is list your address.The logic is that if you can keep moving from job to job after a few months at one job, you stand a better chance of bettering yourself career wise. You keep yourself from being locked into a lower paying job with no benefits, very few benefits or crappy benefits longer than you absolutely have to be.Besides, if loyalty means nothing anymore to most employers, then why bother staying longer than you absolutely have to stay there? If they don't care, why should you? Might as well try to better yourself on the heels of the job you have with them before they dump you or screw you over somehow.I signed up for a?healthcare?policy directly with Land of Lincoln?Health(LLH) via their website. I chose a silver PPO plan with a $1,500 deductible for $244.46 a month. The plan is effective 1/1/2015.I know this woman offers health?insurance, but I'm not entirely sure what that is. Even though she has a total of 60 employees, not all are full-time. Most are part-time. She could only offer one choice for healthcare coverage and it could be an HMO for all I know in an effort to keep costs low. I hate HMOs and would never be a part of one. Not to mention, the 90 days it'll take me to get health insurance through her will bring me relatively close to that 3 month mark of not having insurance for 2015 and I'd like to avoid the penalty at all costs. I hate Obamacare. I wish this would be repealed. I got the short end of the stick and it's not affordable for me. If having?health?insurance?was so important, then why were employers with less than 50 employees exempt from providing?healthcare?coverage? Why was the employer mandate delayed? Why aren't all employers required to provide healthcare to employees and from the very first day of employment?The thing I dislike about Obamacare is that it really is NOT affordable. And insurers STILL look at pre-existing conditions--they just can't admit it anymore. Most irksome, I'll never understand why 'open enrollment' is limited to just 3 months out of the year! Everyone is scrambling to try to get health insurance, all at the exact same time of the year. They definitely should allow people to change plans at ANY time of the year, IMO.My health insurance agent just called me a couple of days ago and told me that only NOW is the info about other health plans available for him to compare. AND my agent says I need to make a choice by Dec. 14th, so it seems like I'm being given less than a month to make an extremely important decision re: my future health insurance. Why can't Obamacare enrollment be year-round? That only makes good sense.I totally agree.That said, open enrollment was just supposed to apply to the Marketplaces, both?federal?and state. They never wrote any language into the ACA that specifically said insurance companies (BCBC, Aetna, Humana, UHC, Assurant, Coventry, etc...) had to adhere to the open enrollment period when selling individual insurance plans off Marketplace, directly to consumers. This was a decision the insurance companies made on their own to sell off Marketplace, directly to consumers only during that 3-month open enrollment period (which they want to shorten by 2 weeks next year.)As for making changes, again, this was just limited to the open enrollment period and only applied to what was bought on the Marketplaces. Theinsurance?companies made the choice on their own to lock you in during the rest the year even if you bought off Marketplace. I guess the?insurance?companies wanted continuity.For any of you hoping to find a low wage job to get by on, forget it now. You have to compete with the $3000 per illegal that the?government?is giving out to businesses to hire them over Americans.news/2014/nov/25/obama-amnesty-obamacare-clash-businesses-have-3000/Wow between this and the tax?credit?the?business?owners are getting more of a free ride. This also affects people like me with?college?degree jobs.Most people believe us Americans are dumber than $hit compared to our Indian and?Chinese?counterparts. I guess so now that we always seem to vote in people not for the American person. Good job!business/incentives/opptax/wotcEmployers.cfmI still and will always say you must first take care of your own people in your own back yard first, then if there is anything left over, bring in more people.So who foots these $3000 money-grabs?There's an ad for a residential?helper?for waste management."Required: Six months previous experience."You need work experience to help dispose of waste. What is this world coming to?This ad is designed for the immigrant because they have so much $h-t in their countries. They literally have $sh-tloads of experience. The American?government?says so; us American citizens are just little dmb-$sh-ts.What'll we see next?"NEEDED: Lemonade Stand Sales Position?REQUIRED: Bachelor's Degree, one to two years previous sales experience,?bilingual?(English, Spanish, ability to achieve and surpass sales goals.Perks: NonePay: Minimum wageHours: Part time, must be available for nights and holidays"And perhaps a dual major with with you said, and the second anagriculture?degree with emphasis in lemon crops.Yes, this is my understanding of it. The 90 probationary period coincides with the wait period for benefits.This could be bad for many single people like myself who get jobs at the end of the year (in December) and at the start of the year (in January). To avoid incurring a potential penalty for going uninsured for 3 months or longer, the newly hired employee will have to purchase individualhealthcare, whether or on or the exchange, in an effort to cover themselves during the 3 months they're waiting to become eligible and to sign up for?insurance?— which will most likely have an effective start date 2 weeks out from the time they sign up. For most people, trying to afford insurance after just having been hired will be rather difficult, depending on their?financial?situation, as insurance is STILL rather costly. For me, the cheapest insurance I can get right now is a Blue Choice Bronze PPO plan with BCBS for $175.51 a month. (Prior to Obamacare, I was almost away generally able to pay $150 or less a month for decent healthcare that I was more than happy with.)Unfortunately, the?law?says I MUST have?health?insurance. Not to mention, I really need it. Now more than ever because at my age (I'm pushing 40) I'm starting to have some medical problems that need attention. Not to mention, you just never know what's going to happen. I got a UTI once and wasn't insured... it broke mom's piggy?bank. We ended up owing well over $2,000 to the?hospital?and ER doctor that treated me.I feel like I'm being punished by Obamacare.For any of you hoping to find a low wage job to get by on, forget it now. You have to compete with the $3000 per illegal that thegovernment?is giving out to businesses to hire them over Americans.news/2014/nov/25/obama-amnesty-obamacare-clash-businesses-have-3000/That's DEFINITELY not good.We're watching the collapse of the US empire.I've had it bad where a couple of my jobs I was laid off or let go. Not one of my jobs I transitioned from one job to another.And, of course, all the?hiring?managers look at you cross eyed and wonder what's wrong with you, why you can't hold a job why you don't want a career, etc... .They do too. A lot of people have not been affected by The Great Recession and hold little sympathy for those of us who have. We are just all lazy, good for nothing slackers. That's how they think. Ain't that right Mom?We're watching the collapse of the US empire.If I say this is the demise of what we once held as good, we get called "negative thinkers".?The REAL negativity are those in denial thinking the economy has (or will) bounce back.It's not just a "recession".The thing I dislike about Obamacare is that it really is NOT affordable. And insurers STILL look at pre-existing conditions--they just can't admit it anymore. Most irksome, I'll never understand why 'open enrollment' is limited to just 3 months out of the year! Everyone is scrambling to try to get?health?insurance, all at the exact same time of the year. They definitely should allow people to change plans at ANY time of the year, IMO.My health insurance agent just called me a couple of days ago and told me that only NOW is the info about other health plans available for him to compare. AND my agent says I need to make a choice by Dec. 14th, so it seems like I'm being given less than a month to make an extremely important decision re: my future health insurance. Why can't Obamacare enrollment be year-round? That only makes good sense.You're paying for everyone else, and that's why utilities, insurance, phone bills, etc. are so high. It's how America subsidizes so many people who don't work or have a lot of?children?on the dole.I don't think I will ever find a decent job. I'll be 40 while all my younger cousins will have far better jobs when they graduate soon.I have given up trying to find work. I must have filled out 80 or so apps, craigs list replies the last month with very little luck. I graduate Dec 2013 and so far worked two crappy retail jobs that have not lasted.I think my?business?degree was a waste of money.if u feel bad now for not having a job. PLEASE dont go to linkedlnn. cause u will feel even worse reading other profiles. i am a big loser compared to others!I don't care for those brag sites either.?I think a lot are "embellished", rather sales-y.?Remember, those people could lose their jobs at any time too.well i guess this is the slow time of yr for seeking a job. good news is we get a month long vacation from job seeking. Ha Ha...j/kI am doing some fill in work, but nothing is definite. No set hours, nohealth?insurance.Everything now is geared toward taking money from us.People are going to have to create a better place if they want a better place. This has been the way for thousands of years. It's no different now.The only thing to me that is better in this day and age is the ability to have a tooth fixed or filled if you need it. Everything else sucks.That's DEFINITELY not good.Yeah this totally fouls up my chances. And in my area, Cleveland, there are plenty of immigrants from many countries.Many landscapers around here have been?hiring?summer workers from Mexico for years. This will really open up the floodgates.It will be interesting now to see where us American born citizens will go and do.I don't know if I'll have a shot at this, but I did find a job ad for a place that is hiring engineers for oil field work in?Iraq. I really didn't want to move to Iraq but I guess part of the American governments plan is to exchange us for new immigrants.Perhaps maybe because the new immigrants will be unwise to the antics of our?government?and they will stay loyal to the government that accepted them with open arms. Probably just a matter of time and these new immigrants will also become wise to the antics and then the whole cycle repeats itself.I really hope I'm wrong but the 30 day period will take you just past the high times of the holidays. And?business?slows down again?Well, 30 days (one month) takes me to Christmas. Christmas Eve to be precise. (What a hell of a time to find out if you're headed out the door.) 90 days (3 months) takes me out to the very end of February. If I were to go all of January, February and March uninsured, they'd hit me with a penalty.It's important this job works out so either way,?insurance?through her or individual coverage, I have something to avoid being hit with a penalty. If this job doesn't work out and she ever got rid of me, I'd have to hustle my a** to find another job so I could get covered again. I'd have a 3-month of being unemployed to work with. Otherwise, I'd have to file for a hardship exemption again.I hope it works out. But if you're not working, like me, you get a free ride with Obamacare. I don't have to pay anything for the coverage. If you have no income I don't see how they can make you pay a penalty.My last employer layed me off the first?business?day after Thanksgiving. This Monday is my 13th anniversary. If anyone is in the Cleveland want to have a few drinks and help me celebrate?Yeah this totally fouls up my chances. And in my area, Cleveland, there are plenty of immigrants from many countries.Many landscapers around here have been?hiring?summer workers from Mexico for years. This will really open up the floodgates.It will be interesting now to see where us American born citizens will go and do.I don't know if I'll have a shot at this, but I did find a job ad for a place that is hiring engineers for oil field work in?Iraq. I really didn't want to move to Iraq but I guess part of the American governments plan is to exchange us for new immigrants.Perhaps maybe because the new immigrants will be unwise to the antics of ourgovernment?and they will stay loyal to the government that accepted them with open arms. Probably just a matter of time and these new immigrants will also become wise to the antics and then the whole cycle repeats itself.Those coming from other places will like it here for awhile, until things become so 3rd world familiar and then they seek better grounds.Right now they are getting all the freebies. But that can't last.Well, 30 days (one month) takes me to Christmas. Christmas Eve to be precise. (What a hell of a time to find out if you're headed out the door.) 90 days (3 months) takes me out to the very end of February. If I were to go all of January, February and March uninsured, they'd hit me with a penalty.It's important this job works out so either way,?insurance?through her or individual coverage, I have something to avoid being hit with a penalty. If this job doesn't work out and she ever got rid of me, I'd have to hustle my a** to find another job so I could get covered again. I'd have a 3-month of being unemployed to work with. Otherwise, I'd have to file for a hardship exemption again.My "job" has no insurance but better than being unemployed. I've been looking at the?healthcare?plans. It's like buying a car without the car.Cheap plans are 300-400 or more. Over 6,000 deductible. After deductible is met, you pay 20% copay.So basically, with the monthly premium, you get nothing until you spend over $6,000 of your own money.How can they get away with this? It's just not decent.They get their money from us either way, if we buy it or get fined.How can you be charged something for nothing?How can they make us pay for others?I read those coming into the US or have "been here" are now qualifying for free benefits, courtesy of us.So when I work and pay taxes, I pay for them.My "job" has no?insurance?but better than being unemployed. I've been looking at the?healthcare?plans. It's like buying a car without the car.Cheap plans are 300-400 or more. Over 6,000 deductible. After deductible is met, you pay 20% copay.So basically, with the monthly premium, you get nothing until you spend over $6,000 of your own money.How can they get away with this? It's just not decent.They get their money from us either way, if we buy it or get fined.How can you be charged something for nothing?How can they make us pay for others?I read those coming into the US or have "been here" are now qualifying for free benefits, courtesy of us.So when I work and pay taxes, I pay for them.Makes you sick, huh? They have the money to lobby and get laws passed for them. Politicians love the extra money in their pockets.Makes you sick, huh? They have the money to lobby and get laws passed for them. Politicians love the extra money in their pockets.Our elected "representatives" no longer represent us. It's truly amazing how quickly this nation is changing. Yet, with the media, it's like it's a great day/every day out there.High taxes, escalating inflation, fewer and fewer real jobs with benefits, increased population, more cars on the freeway, more pollution, more noise, less quality in?food, services, you name it. Everything is going up in price every week.Everyone screaming for their piece of the pie, but we have to work for it.What makes me sick are those local tv people when they get on the six o'clock news all excited, with their six figure income. They tell us, "great news, jobs are here! You're hard times are over." They then tell you about the new Walmart that has come to town and when they will their career fair.I sure wish I could taste my piece of this American pie, but after it is shown to me, the?government?always manages to steal it and give it to someone else.Forget about me (and you) and how we retrained and worked hard under the guidance of our government.Forget about how we did everything the government said to do for this piece of pie. Forget about how we all went aboard the media brain train for a better life. That's another rant for another time, about who really controls media and the information that is spoon fed to the people.Forget all of it. It's all just one big lie.I really didn't want to live in a colder climate but I wonder if Canada is an option to move and finally have a job, some self respect, and dignity. I'd prefer Canada over?Iraq?any day.I hear you! What I'm sick of are these bouts where I get 3-4 interviews within a couple of weeks and start to feel a bit of hope that people are calling, though I hate when they bunch up all at once and I feel out of 4 I should be able to land one and then they all reject me! It makes me feel so worthless I can't get one to say yes. It's why I just go 'whatever' now because I'm used to the rejection routine.All October I got nothing, this month I got 4 interviews. But it does get annoying when they all keep ending the same way. But at almost 6 months I feel something has to break soon. Hopefully, lol.I hope you people realize that when employers hire family and friends intoHR, they will pretend to have job openings to justify?hiring?said person. It gives the HR person an ongoing job.Oftentimes companies trash resumes every 30 or 60 days. The actual time limit depends on the company.It's like?city?jobs, such as police and?fire. They don't actually have any job openings but they have to keep an ongoing active pool of candidates in the?event?there is a job opening.They stipulate in their laws, however, that at the end of the day of interviews, they can pretty much whoever the HE|| they want, and they do.Those coming from other places will like it here for awhile, until things become so 3rd world familiar and then they seek better grounds.Right now they are getting all the freebies. But that can't last.Many are coming to avoid violence in their own countries. American corporations move to other countries to avoid taxes but do very little to improve the living conditions in those countries. In fact, their presence in other countries often exacerbates the violence. Plus, the companies can puke their?industrial?waste all over those countries because there are no protective?federal?pounding greed quarterly.It would be more advantageous to make Mexico a better place. Right now, the things Mexico has going for it is huge?labor?source, drug money, oil as a resource, some?agriculture, etc.?We cannot support the 20 million or more just in Mexico?City?alone, but somehow, some people think the answer to the problem is to bring people here and throw them on the dole and let us take care of them.What makes me sick are those local tv people when they get on the six o'clock news all excited, with their six figure income. They tell us, "great news, jobs are here! You're hard times are over." They then tell you about the new Walmart that has come to town and when they will their career fair.I sure wish I could taste my piece of this American pie, but after it is shown to me, the?government?always manages to steal it and give it to someone else.Forget about me (and you) and how we retrained and worked hard under the guidance of our government.Forget about how we did everything the government said to do for this piece of pie. Forget about how we all went aboard the media brain train for a better life. That's another rant for another time, about who really controls media and the information that is spoon fed to the people.Forget all of it. It's all just one big lie.I really didn't want to live in a colder climate but I wonder if Canada is an option to move and finally have a job, some self respect, and dignity. I'd prefer Canada over?Iraq?any day.Yes, the system doesn't reward us. It just enslaves us for being the hard worker. I'm sure you've heard that line about how bosses will work the good worker harder than the bad worker.We don't get much for our taxes.?hope it works out. But if you're not working, like me, you get a free ride with Obamacare. I don't have to pay anything for the coverage. If you have no income I don't see how they can make you pay a penalty.Free ride with Obamacare? Believe me, it's all but free. If you take a subsidy, then you may end having to pay some or all of it back at tax time.That said, the Supreme?Court?is getting set to hear a case and to make a ruling about the subsidies people are getting in states that are requiring people to go through the?federal?Marketplace. Supposedly, the subsidies are illegal and only intended for people living in states that run their own Marketplace. I guess it has to do with ACA wording. The courts seem to be taking a literal view of the wording saying that when the?law?states thathealth?insurance?subsidies can only be given through an “exchange established by the State” it refers only to those marketplaces set up by individual states and can't be taken to mean exchanges formed by thefederal government?even though the country is considered a sovereign state. So should the justices of the Supreme Court find that subsidies in federal exchanges aren't allowed, about 4.5 million people will end up losing their subsidies and since the majority of them need those subsidies they'll end up getting rid of their?healthcare?coverage because they can't afford it on their own.FYI, IL is a state that makes its people go through the federal Marketplace. We don't have our own state run exchange. So everyone living in this state receiving a subsidy is currently at risk of eventually losing it.As for the penalty, they simply deduct it from your taxes if you're getting a refund. If you owe money, they simply tack on the penalty to whatever it is you owe the state and/or federal?government?at tax time.Personally, I don't want no damn free ride.I want?health?insurance?to return to the way it used to be when I could actually afford it on my own and have it even during times of unemployment.I was happy with my Assurant Health plans for 2 years and am upset Obama made me give it up in wake of his ever so famous lie on national television, "If you like your health insurance, you can keep it." What a bunch of BS that was.My "job" has no?insurance?but better than being unemployed. I've been looking at the?healthcare?plans. It's like buying a car without the car.Cheap plans are 300-400 or more. Over 6,000 deductible. After deductible is met, you pay 20% copay.So basically, with the monthly premium, you get nothing until you spend over $6,000 of your own money.How can they get away with this? It's just not decent.That's pretty much what it's like for the vast majority of people now who used to be able to afford individual coverage on their own pre-Obamacare.Most individual plans are limited network plans (LNPs) or HMOs to help keep costs as low as possible but then you sacrifice qualify for cost.The cheapest insurance for me right now is a BCBC bronze plan just under $200 a month, $175.51 to be exact and that's for a $6,000 deductible. It's a LNP and my PCP and some of my other providers aren't accepting that. I'd need to get something over $200 a month with BCBS if I want to keep my PCP and other providers.Most plans require you to meet a deductible before they start paying anything.It's not fair, but Obama and the Dems own this one and I intend to start changing how I vote. I may e Democratic but I've been voting Republican and am giving anyone who wants to repeal Obamacare extra browning points.Obamacare is one big f***ing joke.Watch out for the free ride. The subsidies have to be paid back if you get a job and your?financial?situation improves. Read the guidelines.Can you give me a link to this? I recall only reading something about when I die, they have the option to the estate or something like that.They won't get much from me because when I am of?legal?age for social security, I bet all of it would go to repay for Obamacare. So I'd starve to death in a couple weeks. That is if I live to be that old.How can any of us unemployed watch out about this Obamacare free ride. It's the?law?they are forcing us to take it. So then maybe I should just go off if it. They can't collect it from me since I don't file income tax because I have zero income.They can go collect it from the non-citizen immigrants that they are giving pardons to and paying their employers $3K. They can very well exclude me from their antics.Kennebunk is this accurate and what you are talking about?millions-face-surprise-tax-bills-under-obamacare-22451/This is if you happen to make more than you report, so you get a larger subsidy then you are entitled to so yes you have to pay back the difference.I always accurately know my income. ZERO.This article talks about how people have to pay back the amount of subsidy they receive if they were not entitled to it. It doesn't say they have to pay back all of the subsidy amount they received.Unless I don't understand this or there is a better page that explains this. Please post a link.?Never tried LinkedIn. Have had some luck with Monster and CareerBuilder. Most of my good fortune comes from Craigslist or, as I did with this home?health?agency job, cold E-Mailing employers.Yes I really don't see a need for any job board or staffing agencies, unless the employer exclusively uses them.Locally, I can scope out in person all of the businesses then research them and contact them.For out of town, there is enough on the internet, and?google?maps to scope out companies and then contact them.That's lazy for people not to keep a list of employers and when they contact them about employment. Why rely on stupid head hunters?How do headhunters find out about job openings? Can't we just do what they do to find job openings?Sadly, employment/staffing/personnel/temporary/recruiting agencies tend to help those they can most benefit from nowadays and we all know the group they can most benefit from are is Hispanics. In fact, it's not uncommon to see those agencies employ Hispanic people so they can speak to them in Spanish.They can benefit from Hispanics for a plethora of reasons:1. Hispanics are willing to take many jobs non-Hispanics don't want to work.?2. Hispanics have no problems getting down and dirty or doing really laborious work.?3. Hispanics will work for really low wages and are satisfied with those low wages.?4. Hispanics don't necessarily need [job] benefits to be happy workers.?5. Employers like to hire people who can speak Spanish. (I saw a job and for a?forklift operator?and they wanted someone who spoke Spanish.)?6. Hispanics are least likely to complain about the work environment and things like working overtime.Remember, they can get by a lot easier on very low pay because they qualify for other public assistance and such that you and I are not eligible for. That's why they don't care about benefits as much as you and I. A great many of them do not work, so this is propaganda given to us so we will accept them as "workers". Look at the statistics. This is what is?drivingup the cost of your utilities, water, phone,?cable, medicine, and overall taxes. Someone has to pay for it, and that someone is you and me. You are paying their bills. If you walk in an ER and get hit with bills to pay, you are paying them. They get free.The whole Spanish thing is for them. A nation is united in several ways, one giant one is language.?If any of us went to any country to live, we would be expected to know the language.Also whenever you have a new "group of laborers" who are content with pay, it's only a short time before they will be demanding more money.?It always goes that way. Once they perceive that?business?is dependent on them and there is no other source of?labor?to turn to, they will demand more.Gee - maybe the American employers will go back to employing AMERICANS then! How cool would THAT be?!Yes, there are a lot of Hispanics on some kind of?government?assistance. A lot of the people who utilize?food?pantries are also Hispanic.However, Hispanics also know how to save and be tight with their money. When I used to do yard sales regularly for many years up until my mid early to mid 30s (I don't do them as much anymore), I can't tell you how many Hispanics would come and try to talk me down when I wasn't even asking a lot to begin with. It wasn't uncommon for a Hispanic or theirchildren?to ask me (if their parent or parents didn't speak English) if they could have just about everything for a quarter. It's like they wanted things for free almost and yet I knew they had money to spend. They were just being cheap for the sake of being cheap.Sometimes, I question their government assistance and food pantry use when so many of them are in?business?for themselves and doing some kind of trade (landscaping?and tree removal, plumbing, electricity,?HVAC,construction, paving and home remodeling/renovation, etc...).Hispanics will ALWAYS be content with low wages simply because what they get here is so much more than they get in Mexico or wherever else they're form.They are costing us taxpayers billions of dollars per year. The whole charity system idea was not something that was supposed to give millions of people a check,?healthcare, food, educations.?It just wasn't. It was for those who truly cannot work, are disabled, sick, or older. Now we have millions coming here just to get the free all-you-can-eat buffet. They come right over the border to birth babies and get other free care and services. Many hospitals in California have closed.Most of us know this cannot go on forever. As people come here and birth more and more babies, who also go on the system, it's is becoming top heavy. America is viewed as some kind of a never-ending bread basket. If you are working, you are paying for all of this with your taxes. Just read the statistics of what it costs (billions of $$$) the taxpayer to house, feed, birth and educate their?children, and give them free medical care and?college. It's appalling, when citizens are denied these things, who paid into the system and need help.Hispanics will ALWAYS be content with low wages simply because what they get here is so much more than they get in Mexico or wherever else they're form.You may think they will always be content, but they see how others live in the US and will want that. They are already demanding more withhealthcare. Remember, they have activist groups prompting them, too.hey are already demanding more withhealthcare.They're demanding it for the 'Dreamers' group, which are?children?and young adults who were brought here by their parents when they came here illegally. If they're on the up and up (law?abiding) and paying taxes and contributing in a good way to our society, then perhaps they deserve that. After all, it's only fair. Unfortunately, the children of the illegal immigrants have virtually no say in coming here. As a child, you listen to your parents and do what you're told. By coming here with mom and dad, they're doing just that.I can also see why 'Dreamers' wouldn't want to be deported back to Mexico, Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba or wherever else they initially came from because they become more and more disconnected to that culture and way of life the longer they're here. In other words, they're becoming Americanized. If you send an Americanized Hispanic child or teenager back to Mexico or wherever else they came from, they're treated differently and even ostracized.It's NOT the child's fault and yet many want to see them punished simply because their parents made a bad choice/the wrong choice in life.You may think they will always be content, but they see how others live in the US and will want that.I disagree.I always check mark the caucasian box for ethnicity. I then follow it by check marking non-Hispanic. Technically, I'm half Hispanic (part Mexican and part Puerto Rican) and half Caucasian. Even though my mom and dad divorced when I was quite young and I never really grew up exposed to a Hispanic culture and way of life, I know enough from my dad's side of the family to know they're always going to be fairly content.Wow. I can't see that. Around here the temp agencies that's all they hire are blacks. My temp job that lasted a day 18 out of 20 in the training class were black.It probably has a lot to do with location. Over the past 10 or so years, my county in IL has seen a HUGE increase in the Hispanic population and some communities like Round Lake, Mundelein, and Highwood have seen a really sharp increase in Hispanics.While I agree with those who see immigration as a huge problem, I also agree with this. It's not the kids' fault. Anybody who would risk life and limb to get here must have an awful situation in their own country. That said, what in the hell would be wrong with, as soon as they arrive and show up at Town Hall for assistance, DOCUMENTING THEM??! No assistance to anyone who is undocumented. I'M documented - I'm an American born here, but the?government?knows ALL about ME!! Why not all about THEM??! Then maybe 60-90 days, you need to be supporting yourself, or a family member needs to be supporting you, just like us Americans. If they continue to make things SO COMFORTABLE for anybody who walks across the border, at the expense of we who have to work our asses off for all that stuff, it will NEVER be resolved.Yes, there are a lot of Hispanics on some kind ofgovernment?assistance. A lot of the people who utilize?food?pantries are also Hispanic.......Sometimes, I question their government assistance and food pantry use when so many of them are in?business?for themselves and doing some kind of trade (landscaping?and tree removal, plumbing, electricity,?HVAC,?construction, paving and home remodeling/renovation, etc...).We had an old couch once we thought we would give away to someone we thought was needy. Someone had placed an ad obviously a private person hauling things.It turned out to be a hispanic guy from our neighboring town, which has a 25% population of hispanic or latino people.We were disappointed because they guy came half drunk with a liquor smell. We didn't really want to give it to someone that is reckless with their money.That reminds me of another situation. I went to my local?grocery store?that has those coin machines so you don't have to wrap the coins.While I used it, a group of 5 hispanics came in and waited behind me to use it. After I was done, while I walked around looking, I made sure to see what these guys bought. They checked out with only?beer?and potato chips. Then they walked out to one of those big vans that carries seasonal workers around to the farms and landscaping jobs. This was in the middle of the summer.They're demanding it for the 'Dreamers' group, which are?children?and young adults who were brought here by their parents when they came here illegally. If they're on the up and up (law?abiding) and paying taxes and contributing in a good way to our society, then perhaps they deserve that. After all, it's only fair. Unfortunately, the children of the illegal immigrants have virtually no say in coming here. As a child, you listen to your parents and do what you're told. By coming here with mom and dad, they're doing just that.I can also see why 'Dreamers' wouldn't want to be deported back to Mexico, Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba or wherever else they initially came from because they become more and more disconnected to that culture and way of life the longer they're here. In other words, they're becoming Americanized. If you send an Americanized Hispanic child or teenager back to Mexico or wherever else they came from, they're treated differently and even ostracized.It's NOT the child's fault and yet many want to see them punished simply because their parents made a bad choice/the wrong choice in life.It's not about "fault" or "blame". They knowingly have their children here to enjoy the advantages of being in the United States.Mexicans demand things here, why not demand it in Mexico? The "dreamers" need to change their own nation, instead of just coming here and expecting everything be handed to them.There truly is a huge advantage to changing your own nation and not trying to make another nation into yours. Things will continue to be bad in Mexico until the people decide to change it.America simply cannot absorb millions of people onto its social services/assistance net.Saying hispanics will stay content is denying that they will ever integrate into American society and will be treated as second-class citizens. A lot of people think they are going to stay here and eternally pick crops or clean homes. If someone is smart enough and given the right opportunities, they will move up through the social classes.Immigration is one of the tools to overhaul the?labor?force to lower wages, and it's especially detrimental to Americans at a time when vacant jobs are almost non-existant. The politicians are granting amnesty to please thebusiness?owners, not because they "care".My message wont post with a link to that GE job in?Iraq. Here it is without the link. Hmmmmm.We're going through a major process of ethnicity and cultural change, all to the demise of our once great America. In with the non-citizens and out with us citizens.If this link works, here is the job I mentioned in another post. If I get it I will have to move to Iraq. You'd think a big corporation like?General?Electric would at least provide some moving expenses.Wow so much for things being confidential and not used for the selection process.?They're breaking the?law?that's criminal.It's truly about serving special interests, not doing what is best for theirbusiness?or otherwise. If an organization does any kind of business with the?Federal government, and that's just about everyone now, they have to play The Game.?Companies are scared to death of any kind of discrimination suit, but moreover, they want the favor of the?government.?If you aren't in a minority, you have nothing backing you at all.Mexicans demand things here, why not demand it in Mexico?Because in Mexico and in many other poorer countries, the people are persecuted and even killed for rising up, protesting and making such demands. They're expected to be complacent and to accept things the way their are. Their governments are all corrupt.In the U.S. and other similar countries (Canada, England, Australia and New Zealand) we're considered democratic societies. We have due process when arrested and are awarded many freedoms, or rights, the people of Mexico and other poorer countries aren't awarded such as the freedom or right of to speak freely and to do so without the fear of persecution or being killed for doing so.It's truly about serving special interests, not doing what is best for their?business?or otherwise. If an organization does any kind of business with the?Federal government, and that's just about everyone now, they have to play The Game.?Companies are scared to death of any kind of discrimination suit, but moreover, they want the favor of the?government.?If you aren't in a minority, you have nothing backing you at ernment also wants the favor of big business. As my father use to say, "There is the ballot vote and then there is the dollar vote; two different conversations".For Cleveland State University you can only use career services if you are an alum or a student. Anyone that has not gone there can't join and use the job posting section.This is what I mean. How can anyone be allowed to use the?college?job?bankthrough this college central place if only students and graduates are the only ones allowed to sign up and use the actual college career services?The student and graduate paid thousands of dollars and put in many sleepless nights studying, so now anyone off the street can bypass that hard work to try for the same jobs?However, for my local?community?college, that offers only?Associate?degrees, I think they allow anyone use it. But am also alum to that college too so I could be wrong on that.Most people won't qualify for those jobs unless they have the credentials. But it is unfair for someone who didn't go to your school and is qualified, to use your job boards.Schools are very liberal and like to do the generous and "compassionate" thing, which is always to the demise of others. It certainly is not fair to allow others to use the same job boards.Because in Mexico and in many other poorer countries, the people are persecuted and even killed for rising up, protesting and making such demands. They're expected to be complacent and to accept things the way their are. Their governments are all corrupt.In the U.S. and other similar countries (Canada, England, Australia and New Zealand) we're considered democratic societies. We have due process when arrested and are awarded many freedoms, or rights, the people of Mexico and other poorer countries aren't awarded such as the freedom or right of to speak freely and to do so without the fear of persecution or being killed for doing so.We got to be democratic societies by RISING UP! For which I will be eternally grateful to our founding fathers.Just think about how fierce the competition is for low-requirement jobs. Every time I send in an application, I'm going up against hundreds of other people. Then, if I get the job, I'm still not making a livable wage. I don't want to live at my parents' house forever.Think about how much worse this is going to get when you're competing with half of Mexico for that job too.?The lie that Americans didn't/didn't want to do "those jobs"...Americans picked crops, made?hotel?beds, did dishes, landscaped yards, and didconstruction?for generations. Those deceptive mantras people chant that they pick up from the media just are lies.I always get a charge out of watching this guys videos. He was raised Jewish but has left that faith. In his latest video he talks about that immigration reform, among other things.youtu.be/J0RkEr4y_Ww?list=UUtBqVgzL_cDv_t9o2hFiXXgI just want to reiterate that young people are having a hard time finding jobs too. Employers want workers that don't exist. People in their 20s who already have 10 years of relevant work experience.So how do they justify?hiring?their inexperienced friends and relatives? And non-citizen immigrants?Then again, I'm 22 with no work experience, and even though it's perfectly natural to want to focus on your?education, employers treat me like there's something wrong with me for thus far being unemployed.?It's different when you have a connection. You're already 90% there when you walk into the interview. At that point, all you have to do is not crap your pants when you walk in and you're hired.It's getting to where if you don't speak Spanish, no job.I find this deplorable.So it's more important to speak Spanish than know how to do a job.I notice that too a lot of jobs now require you to know Spanish. I saw a couple jobs on indeed I know I could do but it said you must know Spanish which I don't!Well, the border is gone, so it's the North American Union now.?You can see all of the signs of it.?The pols only want their vote, not ours.?Imagine the US in another 50 years.Wow straight from the gov page, they want alot of?bilingual?people. There's alot of?legal?American citizens that speak only English that need to be hired before non-English speaking people. Or am I looking that this the wrong way?I thought you had to learn some English to become a U.S. citizen?JobSearch/Search/GetResults?OrganizationID=EE00&ApplicantEligibility=allThe US may very well be some sort of AmeroAsian Federation in 50 years.Why would you want to work for an employer that keeps rejecting you? Even if you did manage to make it in, would you honestly be happy working at a place that kept rejecting you over and over again?If they don't want you, why waste your time re-applying once, twice or a whole bunch more times? Move on.Yeah This baloney about "keep trying" is no longer something I will entertain. They can go suck it.Hospitals sometimes?contract?with agencies that find employment for people with disabilities to staff their low level positions. I believe they get tax breaks or some other kind of incentive to hire people with disabilities.Also why are hospitals so hard to get into? How do other people get those jobs? I'm not talking like RN, but even material handler and other low level jobs. And I've seen people working low level jobs in hospitals who look like they might have some learning disabilities for example. I even applied for stuff like that before.That's a good question because they are. I feel it's near impossible to apply off the street, you need a connection. And that doesn't always work. I tried many times for?clerk?and?call center?jobs but they wanted previous?hospitalexperience anyway so I just gave up. You need an in for everything now.What are "targeted groups"??Shouldn't they be the people who are most skilled, qualified, experienced for that job?Why would the?government?offer a tax?credit?to hire somebody that is qualified for the job? LOL!business/incentives/opptax/eligible.cfmIt's a true disadvantage for a?business?to hire someone unqualified just to get a tax?credit.?They cannot?fire?them.?That's a lawsuit among other problems.Thinking that the "most qualified" always get the job is a common myth.Because of nepotism and affirmative action.You can see the negative effects on industry all the time.It's all govt influence now. Most businesses are connected to the govt in some way, shape, or form, so they have to play the game.It's the demise of?business. You can see companies struggling. They want to attract the best and brightest, but aren't allowed to.It's sheer darwinism reversed.If I had a?business, why would I want to hire just anyone for a tax?credit?It has to be much more than that if this is going on.So companies have to be?hiring?people to appease the govt "policies" and then make the real employees who know something...do the work.I actually had a job like that once. I had to do my work and someone else's work.It's all govt influence now. Most businesses are connected to the govt in some way, shape, or form, so they have to play the game.It's the demise of?business. You can see companies struggling. They want to attract the best and brightest, but aren't allowed to.It's sheer darwinism reversed.And politicians need money to get elected and where do you think that comes from? Wall St. has been running this show for a long time now.And now businesses will get a $3000 tax credits to hire illegals. It will be even harder for?college?and high school students to get part-time jobs now.I knew about the tax credits because they ask when you fill applications out. I wonder since I don't work if I go on EBT it will make it easier for me to get a job.I saw a part-time?cashier?job near my house on Craigslist I might apply for later today.So much for this?college?degree getting me a good job. I guess I will have to settle for $8 an hour part-time jobs.It also helps on the Diversity bit to say you are a Female, Native American, Disabled Vet, born in Samoa. The more boxes you can tic off, the better.And is their decision making process improved by using the STAR questions and giving 2 or 3 interviews for a position that pays 10-12 $/ hour?Hell, even Starbucks uses STAR questions, where you're making minimum wage to $8 an hour.There are "geniuses" making a living off of coming up with this stuff.?The more tests, the more silly questions, the worse they hire.?I guess none of them have any sense of what is good about a human or not.its all bs now. even car dealerships want experience.some of the dealerships around here are now using head hunters. get real!tough tough job market. it's not that we are doing something wrong for the most part.Pretty soon, all of those employers will opt for the 3K refund per the govt for?hiring?nonAmerican workers.Like the illegal immigrants from south of us who will likely be granted amnesty.... after all, most Americans just can not afford to work for minimum wage and have no desire to cram 20 people in a one bedroomapartment.....Get the "American Dream" of single family homes, good jobs, cars, etc rammed in our faces for decades and look where we are now.I am glad to be working at close to a living wage, but my salary is about 10 years old. And every time I check, prices (food, gas, taxes,?general?living expenses) have all gone up.Yep. And it's almost impossible to find a good full-time job right now. So it will be impossible to find just about anything now.And the other thing with the low pay jobs it seems it's easier for young people to get these jobs. I mean high school and?college?students. If you already have a college degree they won't hire you because they will think you will leave the job for a better job or will ask for too much money.There might be teens and?college?students working in the?fast food?places, but imagine how many people apply. Now imagine how many of those who were hired had a connection.Not sure. I hear the turnover is high though. They hire a lot of "minorities" from the?city. I always see different faces usually whenever I go into these places.The pay is min wage at most places though. Even shift supervisors they get paid a joke wage. I thought about applying for management positions until I see how low the pay is.There doesn't exist a job you can get by simply lowering your expectations. Lots of people are out of work and employers have us by the balls. There's a common misconception that?fast food?places will hire anyone with a warm body, but there are far more people looking for work than there are fast?food?jobs. You think they'll hire anyone because they hire incompetent teens, but that speaks more to the?hiring?process, doesn't it? These managers make us jump through hoops and you get weeded out unless you're the best actor. It's not that they'll hire anyone. I would know.?just know I've had a few interviews in?fast food?and haven't made much progress. I felt like they liked me when I came in to Burger King a month or two ago, but they never called me back and I couldn't remember the name of my interviewer (I had a million things running through my mind, like not screwing up). It can't be that I don't speak Spanish, I was never asked.I know McDonalds many of them require Spanish. Even one in Kansas?Citya poster on here said it was required but that might vary since they're franchise owned.You're not missing much. There are much better min wage jobs to work than fast?food?though. have you tried Publix again? Even just a bagger is better than fast food. When I was a bagger in Naples during season the old people would always tip me too.The last min wage job interview I had was JoAnn Fabric. They were tripping over themselves to hire me literally but when I went for the interview I saw how hectic the job was and then when the manager told me all the things you had to learn there was no way I was going to do that for 7.50 an?hr?and I think she realized it too. From what I saw they have a hard time finding anyone to do the work the manager told me.It's strange because I have had a bit better luck getting interviews for min wage jobs. It's the ones that are full-time and in an office is what I'm hitting a brick wall. I have a degree and I can't work for 8.50 an hr and 10 hours a week. I live at home and only have my two?credit?card bills and car payments. My parents pay my?health?insurance?and everything else and my student loan I don't have to pay it right now because I don't have a job. If I have to start paying the 300 something a month starting in Jan I am totally screwed.My degree is basically a piece of toilet paper. They say?business?degrees go to get but it has got me nowhere except low paying jobs that no degree is required. What a waste of time it was.If I can ask but what is your race? I ask this because as we all know Miami has a HUGE Hispanic population and they I would think are probably?hiringother Hispanics for those positions. In Naples that happened a lot.Have you thought about looking up in the Tampa area? I would think that would be better for jobs and?housing?is a lot cheaper the further north in FL you go. Of course you don't get the year round warm weather like Miami does.Wow. I really think South FL has a terrible job market still. Like I said it took them a month to contact my aunt for an interview last week and she had to bug them a couple times and it's not even the store she applied for but she is desperate so is taking the position.When I lived in Naples I got hired on at Publix back in 2000 while in High School. It was so easy back then. My mom worked as a?cashier?there already though. I walked in, interviewed with the two managers for a bit and got hired. Was pretty simple. No?computer?applications BS like today.It's sooo hard to get even these min wage jobs now. I remember the times like back in 2006 how easy it would be to get any job you want. if you applied you likely got hired. Now you apply and chances are you will never hear from them.Even in 2009 when the recession was at the worse it was still easier to get interviews than it is today it seems.They say the economy is doing well lol. It seems to be getting harder and harder to find a job.Like the illegal immigrants from south of us who will likely be granted amnesty.... after all, most Americans just can not afford to work for minimum wage and have no desire to cram 20 people in a one bedroom?apartment.....Get the "American Dream" of single family homes, good jobs, cars, etc rammed in our faces for decades and look where we are now.I am glad to be working at close to a living wage, but my salary is about 10 years old. And every time I check, prices (food, gas, taxes,?general?living expenses) have all gone up.Yes, even when we make low wages, we don't "qualify" for any money. We have to pay for everything and live cheap. Wealth redistribution.I did the math based on $9/HR?and a 52 week year.$3000 is roughly 6.4 hours a week for the 52 weeks.So when these places only have you work an afternoon for 4 hours, they not only are getting free?labor, they are also making a profit.That is all Macy's would work me some weeks was like 4 hours a week. Then the week before I quit I had ZERO hours.I found out they do that at the other Macys stores too with the part-time and seasonal workers especially freight and signage team.IMO what I think they do with the seasonal help is work them 3 to 8 hours a week starting in Sept when they do the?hiring, then on black Friday week and the couple weeks leading up to Christmas work them like 20-30 hours a week. Then after?inventory?in Jan they either cut your hours to about 4 hours a week or just let you go. Usually they let you go. When I was at orientation for the?call center?job that didn't work out there was another girl there who worked at the largest and busiest macy's store in town. She quit too because she was only getting about 8 hours a week she said.What a farce. Even for a?college?student how is 4 hours a week supposed to pay for anything other than a tank of gas in order to drive to work?When I did the Macy's temp job back in 2008 they gave a lot more hours. During the slow times I still got about 15 hours a week. None of this 4 hour bs.You're damned if you're rejected and you're damned if you actually get offered a job. Either way, employers hold all the cards now. It's misery for people looking for work and for many people who are working they're simply not happy for one reason or another (hours, pay, benefits, work environment, etc...).In?call center?training, they told us that 20% of the population has some form of mental illness and we were to expect to get a few "doozies". I can tell you from working at a call center, that 20% is a conservative estimate.I wonder what the percentage is of politicians? Most are narcissist.Does anyone ever see those episodes of Dr. Phil where he has "lazy" young people on them? I admit some of those stories are bad, but a lot of them living at home can't help it. Like I can across on youtube recently from an episode a 23 yr old guy who dropped out of military academy and was really a smart guy but said he hit a "brick wall." Anyways he is back in school to become an?engineer?but his mom?claims?he's lazy and just stays at home, sleeps and plays on the?computer?when he's not in school. Turns out he does have a job but he says it only works him about 12 hours some weeks being a bouncer and he doesn't have gas money to go looking for jobs.Heck I'd be happy with a 12 hour a week job like that if I was big enough to do it! Plus if you're in school full-time for something hard like?engineering?I can't see how you could work a lot anyways.Do people like Dr. Phil who make probably 15 million a year even understand how us little people struggle? It seems the rich really don't understand how hard it is to find good work. He always tells parents to just throw the kids out of the house. If they can't find work how can they pay rent??I also wish executives and CEOs would take a look at these horrible job application programs like Taleo, People Soft, Kronos, etc and see the hell we have to go through filling these out each time for some $9 an hour job.Dr. Phil also says if we don't have a job your job is finding one and to spend 40 hours a week on it! Every day I look for jobs on craigslist, indeed, simplyhired, careerbuilder and search and keep checking every couple hours.What more are we supposed to do? I'm sick of this!And what's really troublesome for someone single like me is the fact I can't sign up for?healthcare?coverage for 90 days following my employment so if you're hired in November, December, January or February then you better hustle and find some healthcare on your own during open enrollment until you can get coverage through the employer after 90 days (3 months) or 180 days (6 months) and then hope and pray to God the employer keeps you and doesn't let you go in the process.This can be absolutely devastating for someone single like me who really needs it. I'm pushing 40 and have?health?issues that need addressing like a gallstone and I racked up $3,000+ in?dental?bills at the end of last year and beginning of this year for a couple of teeth to be pulled and some fillings. It's all on a Care?Credit?card I haven't been able to make payments on for several months now.This week (and it's only Wednesday) five jobs that I've already applied to and in some cases even interviewed for, have re-appeared on the job boards.I always think, "If you had hired me the first time, I'd still be working there for you."I will not be applying for those jobs again.That's a bad sign and I never reapply either.Same here. I notice that too sometimes. I'll apply for something and about 2-3 weeks later the same position is posted on indeed or Craigslist. Yet they won't even give me an interview, but hire someone else who last a couple weeks then is fired or quits.What is it they don't like about me?According to an article I found written in 2012, FL has the highest rate of long-term unemployment in the nation. Some 53% of jobless Floridians were out of work for more than six months in 2011, according to Brookings' Hamilton Project, which crunched Census?data.I don't know if this link will post, but this article written last month again cites Florida as the king of long term unemployment:news/index.ssf/2014/10/njs_share_of_long-term_unemployed_ranks_among_worst_in_us_data_shows.htmlWow. Plus we all know the?government?fudges?data?to make unemployment numbers to not look as bad. If the article is accurate about long term unemployment it is probably about 10 percent higher than what the government?claims. Wow.It's just fitting into this environment that really worries me the most. It's just so different from any other place I've ever worked and they seem anal about certain things.They do seem very picky. The first few weeks or months of a new job are awful, at least for me. I just hate it, I just wish I could snap my fingers and feel like I've been there 5 years. It's so hard trying to learn the job while doing the job. there was this bitchy girl at my old job, when I started a new position, she would rant, loudly and right behind me, about the clerks (me and a 3 others) and how we'd create the files and they were all messed up, blah, blah. Knowing I can hear. And be all nasty about 'don't they get training?' I recall?attorney's complaining about us being trained. We didn't get trained.Our training was a co-worker showing us 2 things then going back to their desk. You took notes and were on your own. And everyone expected you to be perfect with that whopping 30 minutes total of training.I see a lot of jobs are through temp agencies now. Especially?accounting. I tried a temp agency job I saw listed a couple weeks ago for?call center. p*ss ass wage of 8.75 an?hr. They jumped all over me when I emailed them about the job so they must be really desperate this temp agency. Anyways I got there it was for telemarketing surveying. the entire training class looked like a freshman?college?course. Mostly 19 and 20 year olds and mostly ghetto the way they were dressed and acted. The training was total garbage. By the end of the night I knew I wouldn't last at this job and just quit. The temp agency manager tried calling me when I didn't show up but I was away from the phone but from his message I could tell he figured I wouldn't like the job. When I went to pickup my paycheck he understood.Was a total joke for the peanut wages they were going to pay me. Then at the orientation I found out the assignment could be as short as only one month instead of two I was told then they changed our hours at orientation than what we were told when hired.I just saw this local job listed on indeed. Looks like companies are already gearing up to hire the illegals Obama is allowing to stay! It's bad enough they allow more work visas as well allowing companies to hire people to come over here to work on the cheap leaving us with even less jobs!I see a lot of jobs are through temp agencies now. Especially?accounting. I tried a temp agency job I saw listed a couple weeks ago for?call center. p*ss ass wage of 8.75 an?hr. They jumped all over me when I emailed them about the job so they must be really desperate this temp agency. Anyways I got there it was for telemarketing surveying. the entire training class looked like a freshman?college?course. Mostly 19 and 20 year olds and mostly ghetto the way they were dressed and acted. The training was total garbage. By the end of the night I knew I wouldn't last at this job and just quit. The temp agency manager tried calling me when I didn't show up but I was away from the phone but from his message I could tell he figured I wouldn't like the job. When I went to pickup my paycheck he understood.Was a total joke for the peanut wages they were going to pay me. Then at the orientation I found out the assignment could be as short as only one month instead of two I was told then they changed our hours at orientation than what we were told when hired.Oh yes, the trick of the trade. You have to be really bold when dealing with temp agencies. You have to tell them straight up that your looking for direct hire or temp to perm and a job assignment that's at least 6 months.Same thing happened to me back in April. I was told the position would be temp to perm and it was for a field manager position and I would be working with my own team. Well turned out it was a job posting fake ads on craigslist and telling people if they were hired on as a contractor that they would be charged a $75 dollar fee for a back ground check. I was shocked, needless to say, 6 of us started that morning and 4 of us left at lunch the other 2 people left the next day. The temp agency was pissed that the company lied to them about the job completely, needless to say the temp agency had to replace all of us. LOLAnd most jobs that are in offices if they do advertise the wage it's like $11 an hour and they want you to be superman and able to do 50 different tasks, have a degree and 5 years experience as well.And that's scary if $9 an hour is what places in Southern California are paying right now. I know it's a fortune to live in that state. $9 an hour here in Missouri is a farce too unless you're a?college?student working part-time retail.15 years from now I can see America jobs with immigrants working many of the jobs for lower pay, lots of jobs being computerized or sent overseas with a large part of the population fighting for these low paying jobs and having to live off?government?welfare, while the smaller percentage of the highly skilled elite have the management positions, executives, doctors, lawyers and such. I see the real unemployment numbers being VERY high.I might suspect that companies do not post salaries these days because they price shop just like some us do as consumers.When I applied to my present job, there was no salary listed in the job description. I would suspect I got the position because I was the low bidder. Of course, I happened to be earning the same amount of money 10 years ago. My going rate should have increased. Suffice to say though that I am significantly above min wage though (but less than $18/hr).I have seen some jobs (with similar required skills that I am using) listed with a salary $4+ an hour less than what I am currently earning, and some jobs listed for $3/ hour more than my present salary. So, I am in the middle.HR?professionals all like to say that we should never ask what the job salary is during phone interviews, but that all are on the same page to screw us big time. I always ask, because I am not going to waste my money and time for a job that I will not take. If they become upset, then you should know that they wanted to pull a fast one on you. We should make a?law?to disclose the salary for a job post. At least indeed should not let them post the job without a salary, just like we can't sign up without an email.this is why you see so much "Hit the ground running" which is their way of saying there will be little to no training. That always scares me because that is setting you up for failure. I've been to interviews and asked about training and some say 'oh yes, we'll train you' and one told me that it's a small office so they don't have a specific training department and she hemmed and hawed. That's not the point, you know you have someone new starting, who is going to show them the ropes?I hate being the new person standing around feeling like a burden but expecting to get your work done. You ask questions you lose. You don't ask questions, you lose. I LOATH being the new person. I feel the same as you do. when I started the new position, it was in the same office, just a new role, a couple new people started new too and the old timers complained about how many times we or they asked questions. I'd hear them say 'I already showed them that! She's asking me again?!?" I learned to take as good of notes as I could, almost to the point of recording it. That's why I would have stuff for a long time because I'd be trying to figure it out for myself. Just terrible.Wow. I'm shocked they still gave you an interview if you were competing with all those with a degree. Is it a pro team? If so I can imagine the competition is intense because everyone wants to work for their favorite team.I got my degree last Dec in?business?and it's totally useless. All it has got me was a couple crap retail jobs that were unbearable. I keep trying to get a full-time office type job but I keep getting rejected. Both retail jobs did not require a degree. What a waste my?college?years were. I couldn't even get a job at my school like emptying the recycle bins in the halls out! Yea they had a part-time job advertised for that.Yes, I too was surprised and disappointed to discover that a college degree won't help me get a job. I graduated Summa Cum Laude from an excellent university---but I guess it was all just a tremendous waste of both time and money. All I have is the 'education'.The S.F. Bay Area has the highest concentration of 'degreed' individuals. Everyone in retail has a college degree. When I had to take a limo to theairport, the?driver?was a graduate of UC Berkeley. Everyone around here seems to have a good education.The irony is if I was going through all of this job rejection WITHOUT a college degree, I'd be thinking to myself, "If only I'd finished my degree; then I'd get a job".I don't know if these days people need at least a Master's Degree or what. That's what I'm starting to think is needed to get any decent sort of job. Or any job at all.The irony is if I was going through all of this job rejection WITHOUT a?collegedegree, I'd be thinking to myself, "If only I'd finished my degree; then I'd get a job".I don't know if these days people need at least a Master's Degree or what. That's what I'm starting to think is needed to get any decent sort of job. Or any job at all.That is EXACTLY what you would be thinking. This is why, despite our feelings about having a degree, I still do not think that schooling was a waste of time. The problem is that a college degree may get you a job today, but not that "good job" that we all expected when we were filling out our college applications and listening to our parents lecture us on going to school.My cousin got a job as a Unit?Clerk?in a?hospital--with no prior experience--because of a friend, when she got fired (for chronic lateness) I asked her why she isn't applying for that same job elsewhere and she said they all want degrees for that job now. But she just slid in there I guess because she knew someone. IF you have a degree, then you still need something else. They will harp on your experience or your skills. It's always something. I feel they want all these degreed candidates for low paying jobs because then they can expect and assume more, and give your more tasks/work because you should be able to handle it as a 'college graduate'. I see a degree gets you more responsibility and work but not more money. (in most cases)Yes they price shop all the time. Businesses have been known to place job ads and interview people while they have no job openings.They window shop and price shop.I think that companies should be required to post at least the approx. salary range. People have a right to know both the hours and the pay, IMO. I hate how we're almost required to act like we're willing to work endless hours for ANY level of pay at all.By the way, what does 'price shop' mean? Thanks.When an?HR?department "price shops", they deliberately omit the standard salary for the position in a job ad in the hopes that a good candidate will offer to work at a cheap price. The logic is, "Why guarantee that you'll have to pay $14 an hour for a?clerical?assistant?when you can have a chance to reel in an unwitting or desperate person who expects $11?"I imagine my not knowing Spanish makes it more difficult to find a job as well. It greatly limits me if I want to apply for acustomer service?position, but I can't really get any other sort of job because it'll involve training of sorts and employers don't want to provide training.Yea like I said it seems in SE FL English is the second language. You said your parents are Cuban and you look white? Heck in Miami whites are the minority then you should get preference over them.Dam them!! I hate that! They could at least return your phone call!I received a call last week from Western?Dental?about a?customer service?job the day before thanksgiving, I called the lady back on the following Friday, never heard anything back. I called again yesterday and stated I was returning her phone call and that if I didn't hear back from her I would just assume the job was filled. Never heard back from her sorry Azz either.The same with the school?bus driver?position as well. I returned their phone call and never heard back. It's like WTH is wrong with people. So once again I'm moving on, I will probably just end up investing in a knee brace and taking a two jobs at a?fast food?restaurant.Its one thing to get a call back from a job you applied for but when you return their call and they can't even call you back, it's like what the hell ??This is just too frustrating.Knee brace? If you got bad knees is it possible to apply for SSI? I mean it probably pays what a min wage job pays.The illegals and that will be reaping this so as a AMERICAN you should go for it and are entitled to it more as well!Do you think that employers take an attitude that police take, when they say if you've done nothing wrong then you have nothing to hide, so you should not mind all of the personal questions??.?.?To their attitudes I would respond, since I never do anything wrong and have nothing to hide, why should you even question my integrity and honesty? Don't you trust me??Wow. That sounds just like my job- make sure you don't make any mistakes but be lightening fast about it!!! I'm still learning the?computer?system at work, so it takes me a little longer then the girls that already know it, but there sure isn't much empathy from my co-workers either:( It's like they've all forgotten what it was like to be the new person and still learning! So many companies these days are like this- their training is absolutely terrible but they expect people to just somehow learn everything about their system overnight and it's quite overwhelming at times!!!!!this is why you see so much "Hit the ground running" which is their way of saying there will be little to no training. That always scares me because that is setting you up for failure. I've been to interviews and asked about training and some say 'oh yes, we'll train you' and one told me that it's a small office so they don't have a specific training department and she hemmed and hawed. That's not the point, you know you have someone new starting, who is going to show them the ropes?I hate being the new person standing around feeling like a burden but expecting to get your work done. You ask questions you lose. You don't ask questions, you lose. I LOATH being the new person. I feel the same as you do. when I started the new position, it was in the same office, just a new role, a couple new people started new too and the old timers complained about how many times we or they asked questions. I'd hear them say 'I already showed them that! She's asking me again?!?" I learned to take as good of notes as I could, almost to the point of recording it. That's why I would have stuff for a long time because I'd be trying to figure it out for myself. Just terrible.When the agency owner asked me if I felt I can do the job, I should've said, "I think anyone can do the job if given the right tools, training and time to learn it." Maybe that would've been the better answer.That's a stupid question to ask anyway. Yes, there may be times you actually need to say 'no, it's to much for me' but the majority will say no and push through and try to get it. You need a job and are not going to tell your boss you don't know if you can do it or not. I remember starting a job an the second day the girl helping me told me the officer manger kept asking her was I getting it. I was so stressed. I felt like I had zero time to get up to speed. It doesn't help that I'm not a very fast learning on some things, and I know that's why I've struggled in jobs and the job search, but I can get it without people standing behind me waiting for me get it RIGHT THEN.The thing is they don't want to give you time and the right training. They always want someone who can pick it up TODAY and work tomorrow like they've been there 6 years.This is what I'm talking about (again). I found a?dishwasher?position, gee, I wonder what the requirements are... "Previous experience as?hotel/restaurant dishwasher or in?janitorial/cleaningposition." There are next to no?entry level?positions, and I'm tired of the older workers on here pretending like we could get a job if we just lower our standards.i always see experience weed wacker needed in the summertime. 2 yrs exp required. i laugh so hard at that one.then again maybe people can get hurt who never used one before.what can happen using a dishwasher? put too much soap in???You know what? I've made up my mind. $11.00 hourly at 10 hours a week..and on call during the holiday season is not worth it to me. I'm putting in my 2 week notice. Sometimes you're better off cutting your losses. I'm no better off than when I had nothing and it's seasonal, so whatever. I'm thankfully still landing interviews. I'm putting in my 2 week notice tomorrow when I work. I checked the calendar and if I don't do it now, I'm going to end up having to work on Christmas. I refuse for this job. A good paying permanent job, yes, I don't mind working holidays for them.Amen Sistah!?I don't blame you!?I won't even take a job making $11 an hour, for me it's the principal and self worth because I know if I can make $28, 26, 20, 19, and 18 in the past at a jobs, there is no reason why I should have to go below $15 and that is my bare minimum. Anything less and I'll never be able to move out from my friends place.?I already plan on going back to the?hotel?once I do land a permanent job because the rent is cheap. I can't get a studio anywhere else for $760 a month. And renting a room at 55 y/o for me is not an option. Too many weirdo's out there with rules and restrictions, no thank you. :)Good for you in giving your two weeks notice, no job is worth low pay and them basically making you give up your life to hold to a job. :)Just received an email that I didn't get the job. After all that, reference check and everything. I can't believe it. This was the closest I have gotten in 7 months to an offer. SEVEN FREAKIN' MONTHS! I don't know what else I can do. I give up.Wow. Why would they go through all that trouble of checking references and not?hiring?you? Most of the jobs I've had never checked them. Except when I applied for the min wage job at the?grocery store?over the summer. yea a bagger and stocking job they called me and asked for more references because THREE were not enough they said. I just screw it with that job. With the union fees it would be like making $6 an hour.Here is another example of the crazy requirements businesses want even for just an $8.50 an hour warehouse job!Insane! They want you to basically write a book about yourself. These employers really are delusional.DESCRIPTION:?Responsible for the complete process of picking, packing, and shipping orders. Both retail and wholesale.To pick and pack product from bins per?customer?orders, and accurately ship both retail and wholesale orders within the United States andinternational. Must have the ability to lift heavy packages. Must verify correct product was picked and packed for shipment. Must be?computerliterate, able to multi-task, and work in a fast paced environment with good attention to detail. Previous pick, pack, and/or shipping experience preferred.STARTING RATE OF PAY: $8.50GENERAL?DUTIES:?Duties generally include, but are not limited to, the following:?? Efficiently prepare product for shipping, affix proper label, and check order to ensure accuracy?? Accurately prepare shipping orders to meet end of day cutoff time?? Rotate among various functions of material handling such as: Receiving, checking, picking, or packing?? Report any problem areas to appropriate staff member in order to resolve?? Responsible for validating accuracy of products picked?? Ship all retail and simple wholesale orders within a timely manner?? Ship United States and?International?orders by using the USPS and UPS software.?? Create necessary international documents for outgoing shipments?? Arrange for pallet pickup?? Supply tracking information for orders?? Responsible for maintaining a safe work environment?? Continually maintain working knowledge of all company products, policies and promotionsREQUIRED QUALIFICATIONS:?? Enthusiastic and energetic?? Friendly and upbeat?? Establish and maintain a positive work environment, which encourages an exceptionally high level of team member morale?? Ability to work from a standing position for long periods of time? Ability to lift 30 pounds?? Ability to pay attention to details?? Ability to keep area clean and organized?? Ability to work well as a team?? Ability to be available to work a flexible schedule which includes all hours of warehouse operationPREFERRED QUALIFICATIONS:?? At least 18 years of age?? High school diploma or equivalent?? Ability to prioritize and organize effectively?? Ability to use personal?computer?and software applications (i.e. word processing, spreadsheet)?? Ability to read, write and speak the English language in order to communicate with employees, customers and suppliers, in person, on the phone and by written?communications?in a clear, straight-forward and professional manner?? Ability to work independently?? Knowledge and ability to use the following office equipment: computer, telephone, copier, fax, calculator and stapler?? Knowledge of all functions and related tasks in the area of?customerrelations?? Knowledge of Natural Parenting Products?? Knowledge of warehouse proceduresTESTS:?Applicants will be expected to pass any assessments associated with the position.TRAINING:?Paid on-the-job trainingProvisions listed in these Job Descriptions may be changed or modified by the Company without prior notice, at any time and at the Company's sole discretion.?The Company is an Equal Opportunity Employer.HOW TO APPLY:?Please answer the questions below. Reply to this post with these answers, along with all additional information/resume/cover letter, etc. that you have.Please answer the following questions in 4-5 sentences each:?1. Tell us about your previous job experience.?2. Tell us why you think you are qualified for this job.?3. What experience do you have working on a team? What is your favorite role within a team??4. Your favorite job and why.?5. Your least favorite job and why.?6. Your ideal job.Wow. Why would they go through all that trouble of checking references and not?hiring?you? Most of the jobs I've had never checked them. Except when I applied for the min wage job at the?grocery store?over the summer. yea a bagger and stocking job they called me and asked for more references because THREE were not enough they said. I just screw it with that job. With the union fees it would be like making $6 an hour.Exactly. I thought I had excellent chances when they called references, but I didn't tell anyone, not wanting to get my hopes up to much. I'm glad I didn't. I emailed the office manager and asked her why and she said the other lady had some real estate experience and the owner liked that. I appreciate her letting me know. But I feel like I was punched in the gut. It just never fails. It's so hard to be 100% perfect for every job. Even for dishwashing, as we joke about. I have washed dishes at home for years but of course I need 5 years of washing dishes in a restaurant to be considered for that job. I'm truly depressed tonight.It's terrible when they get your hopes up like that. I understand the feeling about having to be 'perfect', too. I feel like no matter what I do, there will always be something about me that fails the rigorous employer standards. Someone else will always have more experience or more?education, or whatever. It is a very depressing feeling; like nothing is ever good enough. We're all only human. I wish?HR?people would understand that, because THEY are not perfect, either.I received a call last week from Western?Dental?about a?customer service?job the day before thanksgiving, I called the lady back on the following Friday, never heard anything back. I called again yesterday and stated I was returning her phone call and that if I didn't hear back from her I would just assume the job was filled. Never heard back from her sorry Azz either.The same with the school?bus driver?position as well. I returned their phone call and never heard back. It's like WTH is wrong with people. So once again I'm moving on, I will probably just end up investing in a knee brace and taking a two jobs at a?fast food?restaurant.Its one thing to get a call back from a job you applied for but when you return their call and they can't even call you back, it's like what the hell ??This is just too frustrating.Please don't count on a knee brace to keep you standing up! I'm not a professional, but after some 16 years in and around physical therapy, I'm betting if you could get to an orthopedist, you would get PT and solve this sh*t. I'm afraid standing, brace or not, will only aggravate the situation. I am AMAZED at the lack of medical treatment where you are. I always thought Maine was medically back-woods, but Cali is putting us to shame!Thank you so much. I only have the courage because of the support from you and others like you here. I admit I was apprehensive because I just got the job but there is no way on Earth I'm working Christmas and on call. No wayYour welcome.?My thing is since I'm older, I just don't tolerate BS anymore Period.?I have loss too many friends to suicide and natural causes to know and realize that Life is too short and to live happy and free of stress and nonsense.?That's why I won't put up with BS.I figure if I'm gonna work my ass off for a company they best know I will not put up with any BS like being mistreated, under paid and abused. No way No how.You have to do what works for you and your wallet. Never let Any company pay you less than your worth. Always research the job/pay market so your have tthe upper hand on salary, that way the company can't low ball you on salary. They may try and get back at you by making you work weekends etc but set a goal and limit for yourself for stuff thstvyour putcup with and stuff that you wont and your find the perfect job will fall right into your lap. :)Please don't count on a knee brace to keep you standing up! I'm not a professional, but after some 16 years in and around physical therapy, I'm betting if you could get to an orthopedist, you would get PT and solve this sh*t. I'm afraid standing, brace or not, will only aggravate the situation. I am AMAZED at the lack of medical treatment where you are. I always thought Maine was medically back-woods, but Cali is putting us to shame!Thanks. My friend that I'm staying said the same thing.?It just sucks. She said if I was an immigrant I'd be in better shape by now! Sadly I think she's right.?Our?government?system seems to take care of foreigners more then its Citizens. Sad system we have.I DO feel for immigrants and the crap that they are fleeing from, but really....they arrive in Maine, and their first stop is town hall for public assistance from the town, then?housing?and Medicaid (FREE?healthcare) from the state, then?food?stamps from Uncle Sam. When are they required to start taking care of themselves and the 20 other people in their family who show up next?I've been trying to find out more about eTechnologies via goggling and I can't find anything about this company other than H-1B Visa Stats and on the site it lists the company as marketing consultation services, not car title loans:h1b-visas.l/12267/Etechnologies-Inc-in-Northbrook-ILI'm a little skeptical when it comes to not being able to locate a website or any other information on the company/employer.Honestly, I don't know how to go about handling this. She told me Thursday before she sent me home that this was "just a try out." She was just "seeing how this would work out." Nothing more, nothing less. Those were her exact words to me.Too many Red flags.?1) parking?2) boss asking you if you can handle job?3) 30 day probation period ending at any time?4) phone incident?5) Having to Walk to police/firehouse to poopJust too many flags for me.?Being older and wiser, having friends pass away too early in life, makes me realize life is too short and no amount of BS is worth tolerating.Not sure why your hesitating or having second thoughts, but trust and believe any person that would so rude in telling their employees to walk a block to relieve themselves doesn't deserve a two week notice.?I would just vanish, no phone call or anything.ABSOLUTELY, Suburban Girl! Fight is right! There are some jobs that are not worthy of you OR your notice. "Vanish" covers it perfectly! Or are you waiting for more abuse in the form of "Nah....this isn't working out". Don't give her the pleasure.Why is it at least from what I read on here is if you're able to find a job it's usually a lot of BS for low pay and not even really worth it.The?government?says the economy is fine though and that there are a lot of jobs!We all know that the Government Lies!LOL?Good example: Area 51 in Nevada :)The thing is: I DO need the money.I can understand your needing the money, but enough is enough.Here's what happened to me..........?I had a job back in 2008, where the boss was Constantly touching all the female temps, he made it a point to tell us all "You will just have to put up with me, the economy is bad and jobs are really hard to find".?One co-worker came to me crying because the boss constantly touching her, rubbing her back and trying to feel her butt. She said if she were to tell her husband that he'd kill our boss. I responded to her with, How much more are you going to continue to take ? She stated, she needed the job and that she needed the money.Well when it came to "My turn" for him to feel on, I would jerk my arm away, pull away from his advances as much as possible, he retaliated with giving me "Cat calls" when ever I entered the room knowing that it was pissing me off, then he followed up with massaging my shoulders and doing his best to massage lower. I again pulled away. He even asked me to go to lunch with him outside the office so we could be Alone. He'd even texted me on the weekends to see what I was doing and offered to help me move. Too many flags. I complained to AppleOne but their only response was "He is out client". Needless to say after his last advance to stand closer to me when we were having a meeting and seeing my discomfort, he called AppleOne and ended the assignment. Prior to that he had offered for me to go permanent but I'd be working for him and another manager downstairs in the underwriting dept. I refused because I didn't want to work for him any longer.?I was glad to be out of there and before I left his?assistant?told me that our boss already had 6 women who were permanent come forward and complaint about him but the company unfortunately didn't do a dam thing about it. It paid $18 an hour, 60 hrs a wk. For me it wasn't worth it.AppleOne promised to place me in another position so I wouldn't file a lawsuit, well stupid me, after 2 years of no placement, I called anattorney, the?labor?board and was told had I filed I'd win the case because I definitely had a case for sexual harassment. The people at the labor board told me that Appleone dangled the "carrot" of promising to get me a job so that I wouldn't file a complaint and the only thing I could do is to file a complaint against the old boss. I just dropped it and moved on, but the weird part, every time I apply for a job working for the company, I am denied. I believe that secretly he is behind it but who knows it's a big company and he can't control or have power over other departments. I use to work for the same company for 4 years Why is it at least from what I read on here is if you're able to find a job it's usually a lot of BS for low pay and not even really worth it.The?government?says the economy is fine though and that there are a lot of jobs!Let's see, how long has it been since I ever believed anything the government says? before the market crashed, I don't think he knew that information.It's not that I don't want a job, I just don't want to feel like I was given something that I don't deserve. That I didn't earn it.I don't think any?business?these days is going to hire you out of the goodness of their heart. If they need somebody and they want you, take it. You have the rest of your life to continue to look for a job. It's a little easier with an income.This is what job seekers are up against today.Apply to jobs, they say I haven't done this one task/skill recently.?Update the skill thru classes.?Go back applying to jobs. They say but the skill has not been used in their industry.?I FINALLY get a job in that industry and use this skill.?After awhile I apply to better jobs with better pay. They now say, but we hired a person from that company in the past and they didn't work out OR well now we need you to have this new skill.?Sigh :(Point is, it's ALWAYS something in the job search.Nitpick?Nitpick?NitpickI noticed a thread on this site about Delta?hiring?flight attendants and it pays only $1,800 something a month?? I thought they made decent money? So they have had their wages slashed too?I think their wages have been awful for at least 15 years -- I looked into doing that when I got out of?college?and the hours and money were awful.The whole reason McDonald's pays you nothing is because anyone can do the job. If you hire "the most qualified", you're dooming teens and young adults to selling drugs just so they can make money.I think volunteer work would stand out a lot. I understand what you're saying, I really do, but if you only interview the people with the most experience or if you only interview people who are friends of crew members, how do people with no experience get jobs? The whole reason McDonald's pays you nothing is because anyone can do the job. If you hire "the most qualified", you're dooming teens and young adults to selling drugs just so they can make money.Yes, it's a huge problem. Unfortunately, businesses are not charities and just don't care and/or aren't responsible for the wider social implications of their?hiring?choices or their employment practices.There's a racial/class component to this as well. People who have friends and family who have 'good' jobs are more likely to get good jobs. This practice contributes to systemic poverty and structural racism.It's just human nature, though. If you have a choice of spending 8 hours going through 200 resumes that all look the same and then another day interviewing a few of those people vs. spending two hours talking to Joe that Karen recommended... Hiring?through connections only, in my opinion, is a form of discrimination. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, I'm just saying that the applicants who can't get a job hook-up deserve to work too. The problem is that there's such an air of dishonesty in job interviews that you have to stretch the truth just to stand out. The problem isn't that there are too many applicants, all though IT IS a problem, rather the main problem is that the interview process is designed to punish genuine honesty. It's interesting. Is work a human right? Would that even be enforceable?What was your major? Is there some kind of?entry level?position more related to that than retail?I feel that everyone is entitled to a job. You cannot afford to even live without a job. I'm a?Business?Administration?major, but I only have a year's worth of credits so far. I was thinking about finding a job so that I could pay my way through?college, all though I'm not sure if that's such a good idea anymore. There are so many people here who have put themselves into debt to go to school and they're still applying for retail jobs because they need to put?food?on the table and it's all they can get.why do you want to work here? u can't say the truth...cause you need a job.Exactly. They want you to tell them what they want to hear, then these interviewers wonder why they get bamboozled.I'm a lifer -- I wouldn't mind being a snowbird, but I can't imagine leaving. It's going to get interesting, though. I live in the largest?city?in Maine. The city is defying the state right now with regard to providing welfare/housing?benefits to people without making them prove citizenship. There is a chance that the city will be on the hook for ALL welfare/housing spending. I don't think I want to see my property tax bill if that happens.I don't think I finished my thought, which was that it is really hard to live in an ultra liberal city with a tea party governor. The city is still trying to fund everything, we are flooded with people who have been cut off elsewhere, and it's just squeezing out the middle class and not-quite-poor-enough... and the rich people flee to the suburbs. It's weird to see urban flight in such a small town.I might try some honesty, like, "I really need a job" but I just get the feeling that I would be eliminated on the spot if I don't have some great reason for wanting to work there. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.If you give a sort of offbeat answer, people will remember you -- maybe not favorably, but sometimes honesty is refreshing. Not everyone takes it well, but I've found that many interviewers are just as bored with the BS answers as job hunters are with giving them. Stories sell, so if you can come up with something sort of project or adventure oriented, it makes you stand out. 'I really need a job' could work if you said it in a sort of joking way.All I want is an office job, Mon-Fri, weekends off, no holidays. Why does this seem most unattainable?I do hate that weekends are such a big deal now for jobs. Don't get me wrong, I'll put up with it, I just wish I didn't have to. I'm a geeky guy, I like comics and?Japanese?anime, so I go to these conventions whenever they're held in my area. You get to meet comic artists and actors who have portrayed characters in these works. But they're held on weekends, so I would probably need to use vacation days just to have some semblance of a social life outside of work.All I want is an office job, Mon-Fri, weekends off, no holidays. Why does this seem most unattainable?That's all I want too. I found a great one. Starting pay in the 30's, 3 weeks vacation, nice manager, casual office, great interview, nice location. Only they picked the other person, not me. I will never find anything as good as that. I thought I had gotten my Christmas miracle, and the manager genuinely liked me! I cry thinking about how this is what I have been searching for and --POOF!-- no fruit for me.I feel the same as you, why us that so hard to find? Everyone wants 8-6, available on evenings, sometimes Saturdays, for $9 an hour and watch you like a hawk. I have yet to even come close to something as good as that in 6 months. It's not for lack of trying!!! It's just not in the cards for me to get ahead and be happy.I honestly was applying for mostly?customer service/retail jobs because I knew I could land those easy but I'm done with retail and I understand why so many of us go so long without getting a job (not seasonal, good pay). It's because as they should, they don't settle. I realize that I was settling and only applying for the bare minimum. I've landed a couple menial jobs, but now I'm being selective and we'll see what that gets me.Sorry I hit the reply button by accident.As I was saying?Data Entry?jobs normally pay between 13 to 15 an hour.?But sneaky employers have been trying to lower that now to 9 - 11 an hour but they expect you to type 65 to 85 wpm.?All I want is an office job, Mon-Fri, weekends off, no holidays. Why does this seem most unattainable?I applied for a job today that I found on indeed working as a?customer service?represented and the hours are perfect 10:30 am to 7:00pm with the exception of the days which are Sunday through Thursday with Fri and Sat off. I'm old school in believing Sunday is the Lords day, so I do my best to not do much of anything on Sunday if I can. :)?And the pay is 16 an hour. I'm really hoping they call me and its a permanent job.?I could be out of my friends house in no time and believe me, soon is not soon enough for me. :) LOLFor the temp agency the typing test I scored a 99 percent overall. I'm a super fast typer and accurate. However I've applied for those jobs before no luck. I got a phonecall for the?insurance?agency for?data?entry?25 hours a week but the guy said I looked over qualified and he said it 'only' paid $10 an hour.?have ALWAYS settled. And I hate it too. The sad thing is that I have been trying not to settle and now I'm at 6 months and beyond being unemployed, and what scares me is hitting bottom and ending up a?hotel?maid or washing dishes somewhere--not that those aren't hardworking jobs, but to end up doing worse is truly depressing me. I was trying to get out of reception and just work in an office, not at the front and I'm slowly coming full circle back to my receptionist trap mostly out of desperation right now. I hate it.My sister suggested going back to school but I don't know what for. I'm just stuck in a special kind of hell right now. Many times I don't want a job as I'm filling out the application but I'll take reception right now just to be employed. I loath working at a?law?firm again and, yup, been applying there too. I feel like I can't be picky anymore and part of me still tries to be because I'd like be half way happy for once at work making over $11 an hour. I don't think thats asking for much. It's still crap wages and I can't even get that! $30,000 a year is poverty for a lot and that's actually an improvement for me, and I'm fighting to find that. #sadanddepressingI was going to apply for?federal?jobs but the resume alone is some kind of complete essay over haul. I took a test to apply for state jobs, it's so confusing the application process. I don't even thing my test scores are valid anymore. I find the application process ridiculous.I noticed retail jobs about 8-10 years ago paid MORE than they do right now in most cases. Most right now are 7.50-8 an hour. I remember back then even the lowest ones were at least $8 or more.All I want is an office job, Mon-Fri, weekends off, no holidays. Why does this seem most unattainable?Everyone wants this, but businesses tell us we want stores, etc., to be open every day, 24/7. Now, we really don't, it's the businesses trying to put a big net and make more money.?I have worked weekends and I know how hard it is to have a life. Most people are off when you are working.?It wasn't a choice.?I'd say take the first job you find so you are not on the streets.?Then you can look for the weekday job because you are already employed and that makes you more valuable.It all makes me so paranoid. Remember last year when they were saying that he told them not to find in favor of the employees so much?? I am so embarrassed that he got reelected. Cutler should be ashamed to show his face.I so totally agree. I emailed him twice and BEGGED him to drop out, if he really cared about the state and to not sacrifice us to that flapping pie hole again. He thinks every "able bawdied" young person who is unemployed just sits on the couch and plays video games. Sure, there is some of that, but you see here, everybody's trying. He is SO completely out of touch. A true ignoramus. Yet the head of DHHS still keeps her job. Millions lost because her?computer?systems weren't 'talking to each other',?fraud?up the wazoo, but her face is still in my face making excuses. Sorry, the subject of that jackass just lights me UP! LOL.If I'm ever old by an employer they want to hire me but there's a probationary period, I'm saying no way José and if asked why I'm saying that since IL is an at-will state anyway, I don't see a reason for a probationary period to begin with. If they say that's how they operate with all new hires, they can shove the job up their a** for all I care.I missed out on 2 very promising interviews, the one with the?furniturecompany and a second interview with D*ck's Sporting Goods, to take her job and look at where it's gotten me. That's not happening ever again.?I so totally agree. I emailed him twice and BEGGED him to drop out, if he really cared about the state and to not sacrifice us to that flapping pie hole again. He thinks every "able bawdied" young person who is unemployed just sits on the couch and plays video games. Sure, there is some of that, but you see here, everybody's trying. He is SO completely out of touch. A true ignoramus. Yet the head of DHHS still keeps her job. Millions lost because her?computer?systems weren't 'talking to each other',?fraud?up the wazoo, but her face is still in my face making excuses. Sorry, the subject of that jackass just lights me UP! LOL.If I see Cutler walking on the street, I might punch him, or at least hit him with a snowball, and I am so not that kind of person! I was really surprised at the margin in that election - I am not sure Cutler actually made that much of a difference. Have you see our guvnor in person? It's something else. He gave a speech at a tourism conference I went to --- talked for about 40 minutes about natural gas lines, had nothing whatsoever to do with tourism. I'm not going back to the conference while he's still in office.One thing this has taught me is to not be so quick to jump on a job offer that has probation attached to it.If I'm ever offered a job that has a probationary period attached to it, I'm going to say no thank you. Since IL is an at-will state and an employer can let you go at any time and for any reason or no reason at all, it seems pointless to agree to being hired on probation. Either the employer hires me or they don't. If they like me and want me that bad, then just hire me without the stipulation. I can find many other employers to hire me sans a probationary period and have been hired by many with no probationary period attached to me being hired.You know that's what I wonder about?hr. This?computer?garbage started around 10 years ago. How for MANY years did companies function just fine with just sending a resume and filling out a short application. When I got my first job at Publix down in FL in 2000 it was a simple paper application I filled out and I got the job. No BS computer no stupid taleo test no thing.I wonder what they do all day at companies that use Taleo, Peoplesoft, Kronos,and such since the computer weeds out most of the apps anyways.For example a couple months ago I filled out a online application for a company here in town both my parents worked at in the past AND my mom currently has a friend working there still so I used her as a reference and someone I know as well when I filled the online application out with Peoplesoft since it ask that if I knew anyone working there. After filling all the BS in and test and such it must have taken over two hours.Then a week later I get a canned email from PEOPLESOFT, not the actual company I applied for saying sorry to regret but "we" decided to not fill this position. BS! I know that really means that the actual HR in the company never saw my application, but it was PEOPLESOFT themselves or their "program" that rejected me and my test results or keywords in the resume. That really ticked me off. I waste all that time, have someone I know who WORKS there currently and both my parents who worked their listed and still go nowhere.All I see HR do these days is make copies of your ID and tax information, and they sit u in front of a computer for training. That's ALL they do all day. Lazy.Its just the dark side of technology. Companies are literally Googling for candidates now much as you would?Google?for a pair of size 13 bowling shoes in purple. My sister's company uses Taleo but they can get 500 apps for a single position. Nobody is going to read all that - not today.And when I see the Taleo logo, I pass on the job. Taleo is for companies that want a 98% skill set match. Its an expensive piece of software.Then, if you even get an interview, these managers act all high and mighty. You have to be perfect while they treat you like you're less than human. All these mind games they play, I don't know how anyone can take this disrespect and constant rejection. To borrow a line previously used in this thread, it's like a dating game... except even the ugly on I've been looking at Craigslist and around here, almost every job listing requires experience. If it's?customer service, it requires being?bilingual?in Spanish and English. If I had money, I would flee the state of FL.es aren't interested. What level of hell are we in?You know what I'm just realizing for some reason? Most of the time the reason you don't land a job, has absolutely nothing to do with you. I can't tell you the countless number of incompetents running interviews that I've encountered lately. It's really pathetic.I went ahead and filed an anonymous OSHA report over the weekend (before she terminated me) and got a call from OSHA this morning.They apparently didn't see a problem with the home?health?agency owner asking her employees to go to the police and?fire?station to do their non-pee?business?over there. The guy who took my report said he'd speak to his boss to see if they could send her a letter telling her not to do it, but that was about it.The person from the dollar store emailed me back from craigslist and asked if I can come in at 930am for a interview! I said sure but they have not replied back yet because I had to ask where it was even though based on Craigslist I think I know where it is. I'm still not sure if I will get hired because she sounded worried that I'm way over qualified for it.I guess this is the new job growth the?government?keeps talking about. Low wage, part-time retail and?fast food.Yeah, OSHA is all about safety concerns.?Labor?board is who you need to sick on the queen of the freakin' governing council. Geez.LMAO every time I see "Governing Council" because it makes me think of Hunger Games. We won't stand for that mess because we are club "Mocking Jay"! :)Also, Affordable?Healthcare?Act an kiss my A$$! It didn't make healthcare or?insurance?more affordable. It just made getting insurance more complicated!I'm finally making enough this year to be eligible for a tax?credit?but of course its December! My current employer's healthcare is through a union which I'm not eligible for until February. My employee?health?insurance would cost me $168.00 biweekly! If I pass on the union insurance I'd be given $250ish a month to put towards my own insurance. Because of this I'm not eligible for a tax credit. So I'd have a one month gap... I'm also not keen on any of the options on the website. I got spoiled at my last?full time?job. PPO, deductible less than $1000.00, $25-30 copays, insurance covered 80% after deductible, and my contribution was $100.00 a month tops! *sigh*I too am ticked off about Obamacare. My 'granfathered' PPO is going to go up to $955 a MONTH next year! I've got to give up that expensive plan. I sincerely believed that Obamacare would be an affordable alternative. Now I discover that I'll need to pay about $600 a month! Plus there's a deductible and prescription costs, etc. How is that 'affordable?health care?"Insurance companies are still looking at pre-existing conditions. Plus, insurers charge MORE if you live in one county vs. another. Why should it matter which state or county I live in? I don't understand it at all.s, getting?health?insurance?is SO complicated I cannot figure it out. I have an insurance agent to help me, but since everyone has to apply at the exact same time each year, he is overwhelmingly busy and I can't get through to him to ask questions.I even called my health insurance company directly. Looks like they finally hired people to answer the phones (I was shocked that I wasn't put on hold). However, the people whom they hired are clueless!I asked the rep for ONE example of a 'specialty drug'. First he said 'controlled substances'. (I know the PDR like the back of my hand, and I know that the prices of 'controlled substances' vary so widely that this made no sense at all). So then the rep said that 'anti-depressants' are 'specialty drugs'. Oh, really? He went on to say that 'anti-psychotics' are also 'specialty drugs'. (I think the rep was clueless about pharmacology and was just trying to think of any class of drugs, out of thin air.I then asked, "Painkillers?" Are those 'specialty drugs'?" He said yes, they are. To this rep, sounded like ALL drugs are 'specialty drugs'. (I think specialty drugs are meds that are seldom prescribed and very expensive, but I'll have to check to be 100% sure. The rep could NOT even tell me how much my NEW PREMIUM for 2015 would be! Talk about clueless. Now, *I* should be doing THAT job.You know for the Voluntary Self Disclosure bits in applications, why the hell do some give you various choices with an additional multi-racial option specifically for non-Hispanics? As if you cannot be both Hispanic and multi-racial.LOL, I always choice the two or more races button. LOL?I am a mutt but I get what your saying because how can you choose just one when you are multi-racialI went on the interview! The guy, owner was really nice. However it was near min wage. I would basically be working 5-6 days a week and 5-6 hour shifts.I'd be also opening the store by myself, have alarm code, and be running the store by myself a lot which I'd basically be doing a managers job. The store is pretty small. It's a family owned place but I honestly don't see how they will stay in?business?when I saw their?inventory?they are a small store. That's just what I see from a business standpoint. The guy also said I'm probably over qualified.My parents don't think the job would be worth it for $8 an hour and basically having the responsibilities of a manager which I agree with.If they offered 11 an hour I would probably take it, but how the small the store was for a dollar store I don't see how they're going to stay in business which is another flag for me and I don't want to trash my resume even more because they shut-down in 6 months. I wish employers would stop lowballing like this. They want you to multi task and be a "rock star" and offer min pay!I agree with your parents. With all the duties you'd have working there, $13 an?hr?is what they should be paying you. At least after seeing the store you were able to foresee the stores soon demise. :)Keep plugging away, with all the luck and breaks that everyone has been getting in here lately, the perfect job will come to you as well as all of us whom are still looking. :)?I too am ticked off about Obamacare. My 'granfathered' PPO is going to go up to $955 a MONTH next year! I've got to give up that expensive plan. I sincerely believed that Obamacare would be an affordable alternative. Now I discover that I'll need to pay about $600 a month! Plus there's a deductible and prescription costs, etc. How is that 'affordable?health care?"Insurance?companies are still looking at pre-existing conditions. Plus, insurers charge MORE if you live in one county vs. another. Why should it matter which state or county I live in? I don't understand it at all.I believed it too, but I'll take a fine for this year. Those subsidies have to be paid back if your situation improves, and mine improved a LOT after I got my job. I would've owe back thousands.I believed it too, but I'll take a fine for this year. Those subsidies have to be paid back if your situation improves, and mine improved a LOT after I got my job. I would've owe back thousands.I keep reading in the news that Obamacare offers 'subsidies' to people who are unemployed or are only working part-time. How does a person get a subsidy? I signed on to an Obamacare plan and even had a?healthinsurance?broker to help me do it.No one ever even asked about my employment situation (or lack thereof). Isn't a person in my situation supposed to get some sort of a tax break? I'm truly confused. Can anyone please explain this or direct me to an impartial website that might truly explain it? Thanks.You know for the Voluntary Self Disclosure bits in applications, why the hell do some give you various choices with an additional multi-racial option specifically for non-Hispanics? As if you cannot be both Hispanic and multi-racial.I never fill out race. I always decline to identify. I've always gotten call backs even when I do that.So is it wisest to just leave 'race' blank? I never know whether to fill out that box or not. (It does say it's optional).How about gender? That one is also optional.I think it's very nosy for employers to ask about race. Why should it even matter? Maybe I'll leave that box blank. I've asked various friends, and everyone seems to have their own idea of the best course of action. Everyone has a different opinion, so I never know what to do.I keep reading in the news that Obamacare offers 'subsidies' to people who are unemployed or are only working part-time. How does a person get a subsidy? I signed on to an Obamacare plan and even had a?health?insurance?broker to help me do it.No one ever even asked about my employment situation (or lack thereof). Isn't a person in my situation supposed to get some sort of a tax break? I'm truly confused. Can anyone please explain this or direct me to an impartial website that might truly explain it? Thanks.When I visited the disaster site, after it went back up, there was a questionnaire regarding income, etc. At that time, all I had was unemployment and the subsidy for the plan I tentatively picked was incredible...the plan would have cost me about $4 a month because I was including my son as a member of the household with no income. The taxcredit?was something like $900 a month. THEN my son clued me in to the crap about paying it back. If I had done that, I'd now be into Uncle Sam for that $900 a month for what 10 months or so. No thanks. If you expect your situation to improve, watch out. My son said it's designed to keep you poor, and I believe it.I'm just as pissed off too. Obamcare has screwed me over and I don't see how on Earth it's affordable. If anything, it's unaffordable.Insurance?companies are still looking at pre-existing conditions.With employer-sponsored, i.e. group-based, insurance, they can still rate you based on things like height and weight and they can still take pre-existing conditions into consideration.I can FINALLY get employer-sponsored?health?insurance. However, their insurance is through BCBS and my provider and the?hospital?she's affiliated with have chosen not to renew their?contract?with BCBS. While they will be taking their Medicare Advantage PPO, they're not really accepting anything else. They left the HMO plans up to their affiliates so some will take HMO and others won't.Basically, this screws me over as far as employer-sponsored coverage goes.Since I know for a fact they take ALL Land of Lincoln plans, it looks like I'm going to have to go with that individual coverage off Marketplace.Thanks Obama for making me pay $244.46 a month for a $1,500 deductible when I could get the same deductible years ago for less money.?totally agree. Any $11-$12 an hour jobs I apply to want the world and 34 in person interviews and I still don't get it. That pay is still low and I can't even get that because the process is like they're paying $40 an hour, and the duties are 3 pages long. I don't know why employers think $11 or $12 is such a goldmine that you should be willing to do 11 jobs in one for such EXCELLENT pay! (Snark)You will work like a slave for that pay too. I can't do anything with less than $10 an hour. I'd like to go up to $14 and that's still low for a lot of people. It's just not in the cards for me. I'm getting rejections from applications 3 plus months old. And right now I'm playing email tag with a woman in trying to set up an interview and I'm scared she will end up disappearing like the other lady. I guess they just get bored and decide to go on about theirbusiness. I feel like some street urchin begging for scraps with these people. Tired of working so hard to get such shi++y jobs to begin with.I'm seeing that too with jobs. They list like two pages of things you're required to do for min pay.I have not been doing as many cover letters as well. It hasn't helped me at all anyways. Also job application that require and hour long or timed test I usually won't do as well. I never get interviewed anyways with those jobs.I spent over an hour filling out an online app for Solstice Sunglasses and my IE browser froze up and I had to do it all over again then it wanted me to take some stupid test. Backed right out. I might take the test later. Just depends on the mood I'm in. I'm just sick of playing games with these applications and getting no results.For me, I want out of retail. Even if it pays the same, right now I want the word "retail" off of my resume. Once it's there, you'll be stuck in retail/customer service?jobs.For me, I want out of retail. Even if it pays the same, right now I want the word "retail" off of my resume. Once it's there, you'll be stuck in retail/customer service?jobs.I understand that totally. I feel the same with reception. It's that type of thing where you get pigeon holed and no one thinks you can do anything else but retail. It can be hard to transition out of that. I just about gave up with trying to transition out of reception. I just want a little office?assistantposition where I don't have to alert people when I need to go to the bathroom. Sad I can't get that. I never did retail but I did a lot of?customerservice/call center?work and thought I'd never get out of that. I didn't really mind it to much, but not something you want to do for 40 years and it would never pay enough anyway.I would if I could get myself there. I don't have a car. Parents won't drive me barely anywhere but to job interviews. The bus only goes so far in my area. And plus, It would take about 2 plus hours to get anywhere if I had to rely on the bus. They don't stop often enough in my area, so you have to wait sometimes an hour for your connecting bus to show up. In the dead cold of winter in Michigan, it just doesn't makes sense for something I'm not being paid for.?Everywhere I turn I feel trapped. I get ideas on what I could do and there's always something that ruins the plan. It's usually lack of transportation and money.?Believe me, I'd love to volunteer. Especially at the humane society because I feel animals are therapeutic to me. I don't have any of my own, unfortunately.I feel you 100% I have tried to volunteer at?animal?shelters but most of the times they don't have openings, if you can believe that. Once upon a time I was on the road to being a Vet but lost faith in myself having the brains to do it and fell off that road. My biggest regret in life. I would volunteer too just for something to put on my resume for the gap, but couldn't find anything close to me, everything way downtown taking busses and trains. I didn't want to scrape together bus fare and spending time to go somewhere to volunteer like I'm some bored housewife. And it would hard to do that anyway, what I truly want is a paying job.It just blows. I'm 22 and never had a job, and maybe I waited too long (all though my parents kinda forced me into this situation), but I don't see why I'm completely unemployable simply because I didn't work starting in high school. What, do they think I'm too stupid to learn now? No, the problem is they don't want to train me at all. I think the hardest part for me is being unemployed and with no?healthbenefits. I have had ongoing health issues since the 2010 era, and I'm only in my 20's. For just one reason or another, chronic fatigue and a host of other ailments. I can only briefly afford the?healthcare?I need with one job, and then once I lose that job, there goes the money again. If it's a temporary job, no benefits are included at all. So, it's like a matter of being impossible to get the glowing 'full-time job with benefits' and while I work these jobs my health issues come roaring back...a vicious cycle. I walk around exhausted all the time whether I am employed or unemployed, and I am also mocked by my family for not working. It's been an awful past 4 years for me. I think the next step from Receptionist may be?Admin?asst but now they have all of these requirements. Now I'm not only seeing?College?degree, but I'm seeing "Must have graduated from a major university with a 3.89 GPO" who the heck are they trying to hire? A perfect person apparently.Yeah, you're right, I'm working on my Powerpoint and Excel skills, but I know I have had jobs before in offices where I didn't really need advanced skills in that. This may sound ridiculous, but I do like working in an office but I don't want to sit around doing spreadsheets all day. I'm sorta trying to find a middle ground. The problem is that I feel like a true Admin?Assistantis fading out as they don't want to pay a receptionist and an admin assistant. So I see "Receptionist" at $11-$12 an hour and you have to doaccounting, create Excel spreadsheets, power point presentations,international?travel arrangements, payroll, office supplies, etc. while sitting at the front answering phones and greeting guests. This is what irks me.It just blows. I'm 22 and never had a job, and maybe I waited too long (all though my parents kinda forced me into this situation), but I don't see why I'm completely unemployable simply because I didn't work starting in high school. What, do they think I'm too stupid to learn now? No, the problem is they don't want to train me at all.I think I was about the same age when I got my first job. I never worked through H.S. either and I said this before, but I interviewed at some pizza place in my early 20's and the lady goes 'odd, you never worked before' I remember feeling embarrassed and angry and also desperate to land a job anywhere so I can start creating a resume. I held on to the fact that I had youth on my side and that is one thing you can use. Say you are a?collegestudent, you might have to look for part time things, not to say that you aren't, but yeah it will be harder and about 99% of places want at least 6 months experience somewhere.But again, you are still young and if you didn't work through H.S. and college that should be understandable. Plenty of people don't work at that time. I tried to get work study and never got it until Senior Year and was so pissed cause that would have been sweet to have all through college to work right at school and have those skills earlier. Oh well. But it's not to late. You're only 22.I think the problem is I have my degree now and I don't have enough of a good job history for these good paying corporate jobs, BUT I also have way too much experience for retail as well like what I've been told lately so I'm stuck in between.I'm too educated for retail, but not educated and experienced enough for a corporate job.A mental assessment? WTF. They want the world but to pay the bare minimum. These employers think $11.00 is enough to offer me. Really, cause the minimum wage in New York is getting really close to that number. They're going to have to improve that.I'm so freaking sick of these staffing agencies clogging up job boards. It's like a treasure hunt just to find a real job ad these days.Craigslist is a nightmare. NO, I am not going to send you references and phone numbers when you won't tell me your name or even the name of your supposed company. And now craigslist scammers/staffing think they're being smart by posting fake addresses, as if you can't just plug them into?Google?Maps to verify them.Everytime I think of how much staffing has ruined job hunting I want to punch something.:/ A mental assessment? WTF. They want the world but to pay the bare minimum. These employers think $11.00 is enough to offer me. Really, cause the minimum wage in New York is getting really close to that number. They're going to have to improve that.Exactly, I am sick of us having to be assessed and judged and prodded for freaking $10 and $11 an hour. They take so much time trying to pick a perfect person, just be grateful anyone wants to do your lowly job. It sucks that a thousand desperate people are lined up behind you waiting for the same job, then these people couldn't be so picky.Hey. Another Stl guy. I'm having problems finding work too and I agree about the job sites and all these temp agencies clogging them up. Craigslist seems to work a bit better though getting legit replies because you're not going up against Taleo or Kronos monster. However they seem to be lower paying jobs around here.And I took a staff agency job from an craigslist ad. It was for a temp?call center?position $8.75 an hour. It was thru Ultimate Staffing who owns Roth Staffing. The job lasted just a day. The temp agency guy was impressed with my typing skills I scored perfect so he hired me quick and it was close to home. I go to the job site and the place was a joke. It was basically 20 yr olds all from the temp agency. And it wasn't simple survey taking like the guy told me but had to do like 40 minute ones and sit all day staring at acomputer?screen being timed and such. The trainer was an arse too. She kicked one guy out because she thought he wasn't paying attention even though he was just leaning on his hand! I quit after the first night.Since you lost your job, have you been interrogated by The U.S. Census Bureau with all sorts of personal questions, including what you do for income and types of?food?that you eat.I've been answering their questions for a year now and they are still questioning me. I feel like they have targeted my like I'm sort of criminal.The sad part is they claim this brings in funds and subsidies to the area. I have not seen that and I still don't see the jobs.Just bring our jobs back so we can work so we don't need?governmenthandouts.If a person gets too hung up on pay or whatever. they'll NEVER work. I can understand minimum wage, but I do think $11 or $12 an hour is what unemployed persons should be striving for in the very minimum. Believe me, if a person works full-time at that rate, the pay is going to be enough to get them by until they can find something that pays more money.I would say it depends on the state you live in as well.?$11 - $12 an hour will not give anyone independence in South California when the rent for an?apartment?is anywhere from $1200 - $1800 for a studio in the Ghetto!!I won't take a job paying $11 - $12 an hour because I know darn well that with the 50 tasks that come with the job the employer by all means should be paying more.?That is why I have been applying for?Data entry?jobs, at least most of those start at $13 - $15 an hour but the catch is an hour and thirty minute drive to a two hour commute each way. So it brings the pay down to $9 after uncle Sam gets his chuck in taxes and not even to mention the cost of gas to get back and forthNot to mention when you take a low income paying job the EDD in Ca "locks" you into that salary so if ever turn down a job for that amount in the future you are denied UEI benefits.Either way it just sucks, I swear if my right leg was better, I'd be dancing on the Pole on "Chubby" night at the night club making some real money. :)I have come to the sad conclusion that I will probably or more than likely end up taking a low paying job, and to be honest it kills me. I am a "high end" salary person, so going from making $19.80 an hour all the way down to $10 is devastating for me, it just is, not sure if anyone can understand this. My salary history has always been either $28an hour to 20.00 and hour, in the last year I was at $26, so dropping to $18 was ok, but now having to consider $12 or $11 just makes me feel like a complete and total failure.And interviewing as well when working?full time?to find a job paying more is a task within itself. Hell, I'm 55 (but I'm 38 because I'm in denial - LOL ) But for me to have to take a job to get by while looking for another job, I'm not a spring chicken anymore, I could do that back in the day when jobs were easy to find, I'd quit a job and have a new job 2 days later no problem, no now a days, it' not so easy.I see why people would rather committee suicide then go through the hassle of looking for work and constantly getting rejection letters or phone calls.I totally get it. It seemed for a long time that the only jobs calling me back were low paying. It made me feel like "What exactly is on my resume that says I'm only worth the minimum?"I noticed a?furniture?store new to town is?hiring?but it says?bilingualpreferred!! yes to be a sales?associate?for a furniture store in Missouri.I guess we will need to get used to speaking Spanish with all the new illegals thanks to Obama who will also take lower jobs away from us too.IMO to be honest unless you're a doctor or in something highly skilled expect to possibly be under employed or unemployed long term when graduating?college?right now.Some of her co-workers complain about?government?work and don't where they currently work, but I tell her they should be thankful they're civil servants because people who work for the government, whether it's local, state or federal, don't fully realize what it's like in the private sector as they're granted certain protections employees don't have on the outside. Not to mention, when you're a government employee it's harder to rid of someone versus the private sector. They enjoy what everyone else don't enjoy: job security. On the outside, I can be discarded at any time, for any reason or no reason at all. In the public sector, everything gets documented and a case for dismissal (firing) must be proved over months and months of written documentation and they can't just get rid you of because they don't like you (personality wise), hate how you look, dislike how you dress, etc... . People who are civil service should be glad they are and I know some civil service employees who'd never make it on the outside thanks to all the protections they have as government employees. If they ever worked on the outside, they'd really wake up and smell the coffee. they'd quickly realize just how cutthroat things are and just how....As an unemployed person you can only do so much. And that is the ONLY thing that these professional can tell you repeatedly is what you're doing wrong and how to do it right. I gave up on these articles after being out there pounding the pavement for so long. There are to many out of work and to many worthless employers and recruiters out there that don't care and are searching for the perfect employee for $10 an hour.And let's not forget the slave wages of 10 and lower that no one can live on unless they have 5 roomates in a one bedroom apt and the ability to be available 24/7 at their beck and call. These employers are just unreal these days.People who are civil service should be glad they are and I know some civil service employees who'd never make it on the outside thanks to all the protections they have as?government?employees. If they ever worked on the outside, they'd really wake up and smell the coffee. they'd quickly realize just how cutthroat things are and just how....That's true. When my daughter graduated from high school, so many people told her to go into government work because of all the perks and protections.And let's not forget the slave wages of 10 and lower that no one can live on unless they have 5 roomates in a one bedroom apt and the ability to be available 24/7 at their beck and call. These employers are just unreal these days.They pay that low in CALIFORNIA? Everything cost a lot there. Wow.They pay that low in CALIFORNIA? Everything cost a lot there. Wow.Yes, some employer's are lowering wages due to the congested job market. They want 65wpm & 10 key and offer $10 an hour. For that wage, you either have to live in a dump / ghetto area or rent a room or get a roommate. Depending on the area, apts can start from 1800 for a studio to 2500 for a one bedroom.Yes, some employer's are lowering wages due to the congested job market. They want 65wpm & 10 key and offer $10 an hour. For that wage, you either have to live in a dump / ghetto area or rent a room or get a roommate. Depending on the area, apts can start from 1800 for a studio to 2500 for a one bedroom.How is Obama's amnesty going to help this situation?Who knows.?With all the wages being lowered, employers might as well hand out shackles to potential employees since they want employees to he available around the clock. Grrrrr :(How is Obama's amnesty going to help this situation?It's not just low wage jobs that will become unavailable to us.?Many of the?government?jobs, especially state ones, are locked up withhiring?them. They will get all the benefits we don't get, too.?But this is all fine with most Americans. You don't see anyone getting upset about it. It seems most Americans have a high tolerance for things. Even when their economic status is going down the tubes.?Politicians just say they are against something, but it's all talk and they never do a thing about it.I think a lot of Americans are against it, X, it's just SO politically incorrect to say anything these days. Yes, they ARE people, and they ARE escaping awful situations, but I feel that just letting them in, letting them stay with NO consequence if they are illegal, and we need to start calling them illegal, because they are, is insane.It's been said if they were "legal" vs "illegal", it would all be okay. I disagree with that because any large influx of people going on our public assistance programs such as?healthcare, is going to impact us horribly. Even if they get low wage jobs, they still qualify for free healthcare and other programs like free?college, etc. Why do we have to work to pay for all of this, and why do most people think it's okay? It's a form of slavery.I think people in the US are so used to being kicked around, they think it's the mode du jour now.How is Obama's amnesty going to help this situation?Obama is a jacka** and I have no problem saying that even after having voted for him twice. I now realize I made a HUGE mistake at the time and, unfortunately, it's not something I can undo. Personally, I don't give a rat's a** what he even has to say at this point. His Obamacare screwed me over. I just want him out of office and am counting down the days until his 2nd term is over. Even though I'm a staunch Democrat, I'm voting Republican next time. I ended up voting largely Republican this year. I want change.Your first year as a?government?employee is generally considered probationary. They can usually get rid of you quite easily just as they can in the private sector. However, once you make it past the year long probationary period, you're pretty much locked in to your government job. They can still get rid of you, it just becomes a lot harder at that point and they need a certain amount of documentation, usually written, to get rid of you. Andevent?at that, government employees have a union they can turn to even if they're not paying into the union; the union still helps them.IMO, if a person can get a job working for the?city, county, state or?federal government, they're generally better off working for the government even though they may not be making as much money in the public sector. The benefits are almost always going to be better and trump the benefits employers give their employees in the private sector.I've had my fair share of government interviews and have never been asked those same types of questions. In fact, there was usually an?HR?representative during the interview to ensure none of those types of questions were ever asked. I can honestly say all of my government interviews were 100% on the up and up and the way an interview should be.While it might be better working for the government, it doesn't advance our economy in the ways that the private sector does. You don't see the latest technology coming from the government employees. New technology and innovation comes from private?business?and the more people the government employs, the less advancement we will see. When it reaches a fair percentage, we are socialist.If you have noticed, the Republicans are just doing the same as the Democrats. They all cry how they are againsheythings, but it's all talk, and they never do a thing about it. Actions do speak louder than words.?The two parties are one party. The?government?never loses that way. Your "elected representatives" never represent you or me. They are just about special interests now. They just use our tax dollars.Obama is a jacka** and I have no problem saying that even after having voted for him twice. I now realize I made a HUGE mistake at the time and, unfortunately, it's not something I can undo. Personally, I don't give a rat's a** what he even has to say at this point. His Obamacare screwed me over. I just want him out of office and am counting down the days until his 2nd term is over. Even though I'm a staunch Democrat, I'm voting Republican next time. I ended up voting largely Republican this year. I want change.Me, too, twice. But what choice was there - Term 1 our other choice was a ticket with an ancient warmonger and an intellectual midget, and the second time our choice was between a now-borderline socialist and a clueless billionaire. If EITHER party ever gives me somebody even halfway toward the middle I'd vote for them. But every single one of them has their own agenda.While it might be better working for thegovernment, it doesn't advance our economy in the ways that the private sector does. You don't see the latest technology coming from the government employees. New technology and innovation comes from private?business?and the more people the government employs, the less advancement we will see. When it reaches a fair percentage, we are socialist.While that may be true, the private sector is a b*tch to work for and treats its people like crap. (I'm not saying that's not the case with government work. You can be treated poorly there too but are less likely to be treated that way.) In certain cases, you get paid less money (I'd actually get paid more money doing?front desk/reception or other office-type work for the government). Your benefits aren't as good and you have less protection. not to mention, your rights are trampled on during interviews and illegal questions and questions that have nothing to do with the job or your ability to even do the job are always brought up. And loyalty isn't even appreciated. At least the longer you work in government, the more you're recognized and thanked for your loyalty and years of service.If you have noticed, the Republicans are just doing the same as the Democrats. They all cry how they are againsheythings, but it's all talk, and they never do a thing about it. Actions do speak louder than words.?The two parties are one party. The?government?never loses that way. Your "elected representatives" never represent you or me. They are just about special interests now. They just use our tax dollars.Very true. I am from Europe where most countries are Socialist and while they are considered the true worker's system, very little innovation comes from them."Socialism is fine until you run out of other people's money" - Margaret Thatcher."The problem with Capitalism is that most Americans will never be one (A Capitalist)". My high school?Economics?teacher.I wish there was a 3rd party. We really need more than a 2-paty system.I don't see why the Tea Party just doesn't break away and become its own thing. They're so different from regular Republicans and don't even see mainstream republicans as real Republicans anyway.While that may be true, the private sector is a b*tch to work for and treats its people like crap. (I'm not saying that's not the case with?government?work. You can be treated poorly there too but are less likely to be treated that way.) In certain cases, you get paid less money (I'd actually get paid more money doing?front desk/reception or other office-type work for the government). Your benefits aren't as good and you have less protection. not to mention, your rights are trampled on during interviews and illegal questions and questions that have nothing to do with the job or your ability to even do the job are always brought up. And loyalty isn't even appreciated. At least the longer you work in government, the more you're recognized and thanked for your loyalty and years of service.As long as you understand that the public sector( government) could not exist without the private sector. Its all on the taxpayer's dime.Very true. I am from Europe where most countries are Socialist and while they are considered the true worker's system, very little innovation comes from them."Socialism is fine until you run out of other people's money" - Margaret Thatcher."The problem with Capitalism is that most Americans will never be one (A Capitalist)". My high school?Economics?teacher.There are other things besides capitalism and socialism.?The problem with everyone working for the?government?is you head toward communism. You can see signs of it now.The reason for this is that the government doesn't make anything and if don't make anything, you can't sell anything and Capitalism depends on a robust market of buyers and sellers.When was the last time you bought something from the Bureau of Land Management?Plus it spends too much money and doesn't manage it very well.While that may be true, the private sector is a b*tch to work for and treats its people like crap. (I'm not saying that's not the case withgovernment?work. You can be treated poorly there too but are less likely to be treated that way.) In certain cases, you get paid less money (I'd actually get paid more money doing?front desk/reception or other office-type work for the government). Your benefits aren't as good and you have less protection. not to mention, your rights are trampled on during interviews and illegal questions and questions that have nothing to do with the job or your ability to even do the job are always brought up. And loyalty isn't even appreciated. At least the longer you work in government, the more you're recognized and thanked for your loyalty and years of service.I wouldn't say the private sector doesn't treat people like crap, though sometimes it can. But I actually wish the public sector was tougher on its employees, because once you get a government job alot of them practically have tenure.Part of the problem with government workers is they can afford to be less competent and sloppy bevause they are harder to terminate.The one owner is too anal and too micromanaging for my liking.He just got mad because I didn't enter a first contact's info into CORE, his CRM. Hello! I'm still new and learning. It's nice to tell someone to do something, but they have to be shown and taught how to do it. He came to me Friday just as I was about to leave, handed me 3?business?cards, told me to input them into CORE. Again, not shown how to do this. Just told. I tried to do the best I could on my own.It was like that at the home?health?agency too. They get made ar me over filing and I'm brand new to the job, trying to learn and not really be told and shown. I was left all by myself and then when I do it, they get mad because they think mistakes were made.What's wrong with employers? Don't they get new means new? Don't they understand a new person needs to be shown, taught and given time to learn?I hate this about the workplace now.One question that I now ask during the interview is "How much training can I expect?" If that is met with uncomfortable glances and sighs, I know that might not be the job for me. II am not the "hit the ground running" type. My major is?computer?information systems. I was laid off from my job a few months ago because my company got bought out right when I was hired. Since then, I've had over 20 on site interviews and have gotten turned down by all of them or never heard back. When I get a rejection e-mail, it's usually vague and generic, such as "We're moving forward with other candidates". I get calls and e-mails often but in the end potential jobs always fall though. It's gut-wrenching, brutal and painful. I have started to wonder at even at my age (25), if I'll ever find a job again.I'm looking at getting a couple of certifications (A+ and Network+) through the Workforce?Investment?Act where I can get up to $3,500 to take training courses to get those certifications. Not every company that calls me for a phone interview asks if I have any certifications and those that do say "It's no big deal" or "It's not required". If I still can't find a job even with those certifications, I don't know what I'll do.I was warned about this guy from several if the gals working in the office.This guy literally told one of the gals in a recent meeting to shut up when she tried to speak up about something he was talking to us about. It just floored me. I've already seen him openly admonish employees out in the open around other co-workers. Thankfully, it hasn't happened with clients around. Like Kelly said, can you imagine if clients ever saw it? How unprofessional that'd be.I spent 9 months working for an optometrist who also openly admonished his employees on the floor and didn't care if patients were around and acted similarly to this guy with employess. Not going through it again, especially for another 9 months.Now I know why Jeff, the full-time?front desk?person, just up and left. This guy is rough to work for.Why do I always get stuck at the sucky places?And what sucks about these jobs is they're resume wreckers because you don't stay at them long enough to list them on your resume and if you did you can't use them because they won't have good things to say about you.Already had that happen to me earlier this year with that horrible?cashierjob at Northern Tool.Funny, I talked about and complained about my job at the home?health?agency and no one told me to stop complaining, get off the forum, and to concentrate on that job. Now, all if a sudden, I'm being told that about this job. Weird how some of you are picky and choosy about when you will listen and offer support and advice and when you won't listen and offer support and advice to someone.I think what everyone is trying to get across to you is that this is a "Frustrated Job Seekers Rant" forum.You are now employed, so perhaps make a forum for "Frustrated With My Job Rant" forum.Most of us here are trying to get jobs, you have so far landed two and have complained about every single one of them, while some have given you advice you continue to rant and rave about how much you hate each job.?To some us suffering from going to job interview after job interview and looking to land a job, you have landed Two jobs and seem to be ungrateful.I'm just saying what others maybe thinking, at least the regulars that use to be here who have now left for one reason or another. Just a thought.I'm sure if you made a forum here on Indeed about hating your job, you'd have a bunch of folks coming into the forum.Here we are just trying to find work, a place to live, pay our bills and get by on what little income and some on No income to get by.I wish you the best on whatever you do at your present job, but come on lady, you have a job, be happy and do your best to keep it and be happy that you have a job.I called the service managers cell phone again early this afternoon and it let me leave a message this time but still have not got a call back from him.Should I just give up on getting a interview from it?I give up on this. Every time I think I get an interview lined up they back out, or don't contact me back 90 percent of the time.On the local news website it says MO unemployment down to 2008 levels as well and look at me.I need to start my own?business. I've been out of?college?nearly a year now and all I had was a crap job at Northern Tool part-time and the job at Macy's that worked me 0-8 hours a week. I don't see myself ever being gainfully employed again.You and me both. It's just crap out there.?I'd work my fingertips off if I had to...to have my own business.From my experience in?collegewomen take the more social sciences classes and liberal arts classes like sociology, psychology, female, gender studies etc and other fluff. Yea the university I graduated from has just added a gender studies degree and has a big feminist movement on campus the last couple years. Hence they always seemed to brag about their high GPA while I had to take more?business?courses and harder stuff.You wonder what someone does with a gender studies degree. It doesn't even matter if you get a 4.0 GPA in that major.Schools try to make it like all degrees are equally difficult and that just isn't true. In fact, schools often charge extra fees to enroll in science,engineering, medicine, and business programs.Those courses seem like a lot of propaganda. Imagine going through that every day.Anyone have any rants or raves from working at Walmart?The Chicago Tribune just posted an article but the link would not take. Indeed responded with:"We do not allow vulgar language, personal attacks, or phone numbers in our forums. Please edit your comment appropriately."----------------------------------------------------------------------------The Pennsylvania Supreme?Court?ordered Wal-Mart Stores Inc to pay $188 million to employees who had sued the retailer for failing to compensate them for rest breaks and all hours worked.Wal-Mart said on Tuesday that it might appeal the decision, which upheld lower court rulings, to the U.S. Supreme Court., please consider allowing links because some are legitimate and job related.Well the service manager from the dealer never called me back. I left a message Monday night on his work phone and tried calling a few times yesterday and left a message on his cell phone and tried one more time today.No dice. It always seems that way. I get my hopes up I got an interview and it ends up not working out because they decide not to call me back to hire me, or it's a phone interview and they say they will get back to me for an in person interview or they only offer me 6 hours a week or min wage.I about give up on this job hunting. I filled out 4 more apps this week from Craigslist and no luck still.I'm trying to talk my parents into finding me a way to start a?businesssomeday. My resume is trashed from when I was younger and got laid off and switched jobs a lot and in this last case because I quit my job in order to go to?college?and finish my degree faster.I've never seen anything like this before. Just how rude managers and such are today when it comes to interviewing by not returning phone calls or just plain being nasty when you call them about the status of your application.Are you working on your novel? I'll proof! I have some small writing projects too. I have not been consistent about working on them.I had been working on it off and on, mapping out my plot and characters but for the past 6-8 months I haven't felt motivated to do it. I think about it, especially when I start reading and it makes me want to stop and go write my own book. I have fan fiction novels. I wish I could publish those, lol. I wish I had something decent for to proof. But I don't have anything written to the point I'm finished with it and ready to just edit. I need to do it. That's my only passion in life besides animals.How does one get hired by a company that uses Brassing, Taleo, PeopleSoft, etc?Why can't it be like it was 15 years ago where you fill a paper application out or just email them a resume? It sounds like they want to cut back on?HR?workers.I wish I knew. I figure that certain jobs are looking for certain types. Retail jobs are looking for honesty, integrity, and "OMG PEOPLE I LOVE PEOPLE YAAAAY, PEOPLE!" so even if you are honest and have good integrity if you're more reserved or gasp! Shock! introverted (like me) and that shows in the test, you might not pass.That "person" had a sense of entitlement. As we all saw, if the smallest thing didn't go her way, well, everybody around her was at fault. Some folks here pointed out that the same issues kept cropping up at every job she had, perhaps it was time to look a bit closer to "home" when it came to issues.As others here have said, she needs to be the center of attention.It's amazing anyone can go to work nowadays and think they can get their way. Unless they have some skill in huge demand, it's just?catering?to what the employer wants.?I think a lot of the same issues can come up in different jobs. I have had that happen. It's sort of the?business?world now, the flavor of things. But her reasoning was flawed. Telling a place she wouldn't work the?front deskwouldn't work unless she had some in-demand talent.Has anyone else thought about maybe starting their own small?business? My resume is so trashed and job gaps in it for not being fully employed due to the economy.Like I learned in school from a couple entrepreneur classes I took some people start their own business because they were unable to find work.At least then you're responsible for making your own money and not relying on Taleo, Brassing, or Kronos to get you a job interview.I think about this every day!I know I don't belong working for other people. I am tired of asking bosses to clarify themselves, or when they contradict themselves, I hate having to bring it up.My current boss told me to arrive at a site at 8:30am. The form said 9am. I asked again and she said, no, it's 8:30.So I get there at 8:30 and no one is there.I texted her and asked why no one was there. She said that the site opens at 9am.Now, is she just stupid or lame or is she messing with me?I am so tired of this crap. I work hard, and I am willing to work hard to get a business off the ground.People used to tell me that if you work for yourself, you're going to have no life and work very hard. Well, I have been working for others, and it's been that way for me.I agree, that there is no way to have a quality life unless you work for yourself. I just don't have the idea yet. That's the hard part. It doesn't have to be something brand new, but something I know about.I have thought of starting my own business, but honestly do not have the personality for most self employment. Many times (arguably most), one must have an outgoing personality to charm people over.My father did his own business for a number of years. He worked 10-12 hour days. I prefer to wrap things up and go home around 8 hours.See, when I work, I work 10+ hours a day. I've worked 13 hours in one day. Plus the 1 hour commute each way...?I don't think one has to be overly charming. You just have to have a good product and find that niche. If an industry needs a part or process for manufacture, and you do it well or cheaper, you got it.?Especially if you know someone in the business.I don't like working for others. I am tired of the games, the politics, the put-downs, the belittling, the arrogance, the incompetence. It's not the hard work. It's the mind games, etc.Going to to work is such a huge part of life. If one is at home for 10 hours a day and part of that is sleeping, it isn't much time for oneself.I'd rather work 60 hours a week for myself than 40 hours and having to put up with rude managers and such.I'd rather work 60 hours a week for myself than 40 hours and having to put up with rude managers and such.Exactly. It's about quality of life and not feeling like one is constantly swirling around the drain of insanity.Or having a 21 y/o female manager who is filing her nails and has her flip flops on and chewing gum while you're trying to relate a system issue to her. Then she says she doesn't know how to fix it.I think about this every day!I am so tired of this crap. I work hard, and I am willing to work hard to get abusiness?off the ground.People used to tell me that if you work for yourself, you're going to have no life and work very hard. Well, I have been working for others, and it's been that way for me.I agree, that there is no way to have a quality life unless you work for yourself. I just don't have the idea yet. That's the hard part. It doesn't have to be something brand new, but something I know about.I would love to be my own boss, but I have zero business sense and am just not a business person. I watch Shark Tank and think those people have good ideas and make some money but I just couldn't do it, and when the sharks ask pertinent business questions I'm like "huh?" I'd be bankrupt in a week lol. I just love the idea of running the company because I know what I'd do differently and how I'd appreciate my employees. I would not forget the little man. But at the same time I don't want to be bothered being in charge. I dont want a 60 work week. If you get lucky and it really takes off then you can sit back and chill but that's if it takes off that well.I hate those?hiring?softwares the companies use. If it is so great why do they hire such dumb people? I mean I thought it is supposed to weed out people not qualified lol.Perhaps they aren't looking for the smartest people. The managers might not want someone better than them under them.?Most jobs now have no where to advance to, either.That could be why possibly in retail they don't hire the smartest people figuring they will eventually take their job or leave for a better job soon.I've spent the last few hours doing more research on starting a?business.?I can't take working for morons anymore.?It's like everything is inverted.?Businesses used to hire the best people. The most skilled or dedicated or other, but now, it's one big grown-up playground. Just cliques. Women are big on cliques, but men do it too. Just who they like or don't like. If they don't like you, forget it. If they didn't like Einstein, Tesla, or James?ClerkMaxwell, they wouldn't get hired.I'm not saying I want to be a millionaire but even if I had a small?businesswhere I made $30,000 a year income for myself I'd be happy. Heck even $20,000 I would since I live with my parents. I have a degree and each time I fill an app out for jobs that pay 25 to 30k a year I get NO interviews, just ignored or rejections.It's only near min wage jobs I get bites from.As I told my parents I basically give up looking for a full-time good paying job. I spend hours fighting Taleo, Brassing and Kronos for jobs I never get interviews for.I'm just sticking to craigslist now where it's easy to?fire?off an email and a human sees it but even that lately has dried up a bit.I graduated Dec 2013 and only job I had was a?cashier?at Northern Tool for 3 months then I quit as it was unbearable and the harassment I got from my managers, and then Macy's which lasted 3 months but I got 0-8 hours a week. So now I have nothing to put on my resume for the last year since graduation and before that summer 2012 was last time I worked. From what I'm reading I'm pretty much screwed now.Hence why I want to somehow get my own business. I see everyone else who graduated last Dec or this May at my school getting jobs. I'm sick of applying for jobs I wont get. That is time wasted I could be learning stuff and researching about starting a business.Trying to get something patented is really discouraging and expensive. I found a service for free patent work (since shut down) and learned that my idea already had 30 patents taken out against it. The lawyers told me to just do what I wanted and wait for someone to find me. I'd have to pay them to license the patent.What really makes me mad is that it's software. It's ridiculous that you can patent 'online shopping cart' and 'button that sends you from one webpage to another' when no two people will solve the problem the same way.It's like everything is being done to stop the dissemination of ideas and keep innovation out of the hands of the workers.Hence why I want to somehow get my own?business. I see everyone else who graduated last Dec or this May at my school getting jobs. I'm sick of applying for jobs I wont get. That is time wasted I could be learning stuff and researching about starting a business.What skills do you have? The quickest path to profitability is to sell a service.How does this job sound? Should I apply? I never get interviews for full-time jobs so I guess I'll stick to part-time low level jobs.Part Time?JanitorialMorning hours. Start at 7am. 3 hours; Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat (12 hours per week)$8.00 per hourMust be at least 21 years old, no criminal background, no whining, no bs.Clean bathrooms, dust mop, empty garbage, wet mop, scrub floors, buff floors.Reply to this ad with interest.Looking to start ASAP.I thought the illegals were here to do the jobs, like this one, that Americans don't want to do.?Have heard this ad nauseum over and over from the media and thegovernment.I am also tired of the silly businesses that are actually started. Like where DO these people get the money to start a website with webcam hugs?I look at some of the startups and they seem to be the dumbest ideas ever, but they still get the money to create them. Over use of apps for phones that are excessive. Most of the new startups are just apps.?At least they mentioned that it will still be 2+ years before the economy supposedly recovers. And that salaries have remained stagnate at best.A day or two ago, it was actually mentioned that the median salary has gone down by about 3k over the past few years.And consumer prices keep climbing. More people seem to be spending money. (Where exactly is this money coming from when salaries are going down????)I do wonder about that, too. Maybe debt? Investments? Savings from lower oil prices?i think most of the profits from us companies are coming from their overseas biz. like Apple.maybe we should take a boat ride.The media keeps the propaganda going. They aren't going to say how bad things are. They can distort numbers all they want, but when you don't have a job or you work and get your paycheck and see how little you get...I'm a registered independent but haven't voted since 2009 and have no plans to vote anytime soon..The whole process has become totally distorted..Me too. I feel like no one represents me or anyone else. I feel they are pawns of the masters.Remember the old communist single candidate ballots? That's basically what we have now.New immigration center will hire 1000 employees and house and feed them. I assume of course they will be?hiring?illegals to fill these jobs. Their job is to process the illegals in this country to give them amnesty.Looks like it will be even harder to get a job now.big-government/2014/12/26/cost-to-pay-and-house-1000-new-immigration-employees-for-exec-amnesty-48-million-a-year/Why ask for the top dollar?Because they said they are willing to pay it with the range offered.Because the only time you have any leverage regarding your pay is when you're?"negotiating" like this.Because you have to get it going in the door.Because you'll never get any raises or bonuses or cost of living increases or adjustments.Because you know your own value and know you are competent.Because no job lasts forever, so you might as well make as much as you can while you work.The whole process is broken. I had a professional job once that I just quit with nothing lined up. Took me a year to find another. Years ago.Nowadays if I were to just quit a job,?Hiring?managers wouldn't touch me. They would think there's something wrong with me. I remember at the time the interviewer said to me, "I understand perfectly why you left." Only job I ever upped and just quit. Today I'd be an outcast and never work a pro job again.Systems broken:today/post/article/5-reasons-hiring-processes-never-attract-best-people-like-jeff-haden?trk=tod-posts-post1-ptltHe missed the biggest reason.Insecure, snide, egotistical managers who want to keep the competition out. If they perceive you as being better than them, they don't want you around. You'll make them look bad and could move into their position.Why it's such a locked up game now.A lot of people are not comfortable talking about money.?Sometimes, we are brought up this way or some people feel it's being greedy to try to get more money.You have to be comfortable talking about money and trying to get the best for yourself.It's not being greedy to get what you think you deserve.It's important to be able to talk about money. I think a lot of employers?bankon the fact that a lot of people are unable or uncomfortable to talk about money and will take whatever an employer offers.The more skilled the job is, the more leverage you have with getting more money.Employers ask for salary requirements up front pretty much all the time now. Because they can. They hold all the cards. Really not right when it's a blind online ad, but what can you do except say "market value?" Asking for references up front in a blind or salary history is just too much though.I've stepped into this sight a couple of times and was actually a regular years ago. What I learned most from leaving this place was a better perspective on my life. Getting stuck in this place became a twilight zone, never moving on. There is nothing wrong with venting, but when it becomes a constant thing it gets in the way of moving forward.I know I'll get negative feedback from the regulars, which is what I expect. Reading posts from others who have tried to share something that wasn't too favorable with the regulars was like being thrown to the wolves.Also, I've been in the same boat as most of you on here; unemployed for years, over 50 and working part time, underpaid jobs. I just got hired with my third part time job, love all three jobs and my life. I'm always working on having a positive attitude on life, no matter what is thrown at me! Best of luck......It (venting) actually never got in the way for me. It was here I learned that there was nothing "wrong" with me, and I'll always be grateful to the "regulars" you've mentioned for that. I figured EVERYBODY here couldn't possibly be a useless lowlife. We all encourage each other, and as we get hired, instead of leaving the site, we stay on to encourage the rest. I think that's the most positive thing going, when the rest of the world, Dr. Phil, and sometimes your family, think you're 'just not trying hard enough'.I'm not really nervous about my interview on Wed. I learned not to get worked up and excited before an interview anymore because then when you don't get the job you get all mad and that.I otherwise pretty much give up unless it's on Craigslist or something really simple to apply for. No more two hours of going to war with Taleo anymore or anything like that when they're not going to contact me for an interview anyways.My only other option is to find a way to start a?business.Otherwise I'll probably be better off dead eventually than being broke and considered useless the rest of my life like most employers think of me.Has anyone else given up filling out any job applications that use?hiringsoftware like brassing, Taleo, Kronos, Peoplesoft, etc?I've officially am. It's nothing but a waste of time and I have not got any interviews so far with jobs using any of this software.I'm only sticking to jobs that let me reply directly to someone via email or simple submission form or Craigslist.I don't have multiple hours to waste on ONE job that I will 98 percent chance not get contacted for any sort of interview.Also I don't like my SS number out there too as most of those programs require you to enter it. Especially not after someone tried using my SS Number this past year to file a bogus return on me.I wonder how much good calling these?government?offices really help. This is job related in the sense I need to cut costs because I am unemployed.So I called my PUCO, Public Utilities Commission of Ohio to complain about how my phone company, CenturyLink, is way higher in their prices compared to all of the surrounding telephone companies. Their internet price is outrageous.I made sure I told him that I am unemployed and how the area unemployment is high. That was when he gave me his first *sigh*. And then a couple more times during the rest of our conversation. He acted so put off to the point I wished I had never called.Nothing ever became of it. I'm still waiting for an answer.Oh I also have called a few times to complain about lack of jobs to some of my political reps, i.e. state senator, congressman, and one other but I forget his title.End result: I only received lip service letters that thanked me, which included a reminder to vote for them in the next election.Guess what dudes? I gave you a big UFCK YOU because I did not vote for any of you!!!!!The first person to name an amount loses.?I never bring up an amount.?When they ask me how much I am looking for, I say, "I am sure you will offer something competitive for this job."?If they ask again, I bat the ball back and say,?"What range are you willing to offer or come in with?"Let them tell you what they want to pay.?Then you can ask for the top amount.Nice Answer!!?Thank you for sharing, I will use this next I'm asked that question.?Seems when I name the amount, I am low balled by someone less experience and they get the job.?My dad always said "You get what you pay for" and these cheap azz employers are getting just that!?Rather than pay a reasonable salary for those that are qualified or even overly qualified they'd rather go with someone asking for less with less experience or a "brown noser" who is deseparate enough to take anything. Sorry I still have some pride left to hold on to and unless they "show me the money" the low ball bait that they offer, I am not willing to take. :)Why do employers consider and refer to those working temp jobs as "Job Hoppers" ?This is so frustrating for me.?It's like every other interview I land, they bring that up first thing along with voicing it.?My response is "I am single and self supporting and working temp until I find permanent work, is a way for my survivial".?Then of course I heard "well we are still interviewing people and we'll get back to you upon making a decision", of course I never hear anything back. :(I wonder how much good calling these?governmentoffices really help. This is job related in the sense I need to cut costs because I am unemployed.So I called my PUCO, Public Utilities Commission of Ohio to complain about how my phone company, CenturyLink, is way higher in their prices compared to all of the surrounding telephone companies. Their internet price is outrageous.I made sure I told him that I am unemployed and how the area unemployment is high. That was when he gave me his first *sigh*. And then a couple more times during the rest of our conversation. He acted so put off to the point I wished I had never called.Nothing ever became of it. I'm still waiting for an answer.Oh I also have called a few times to complain about lack of jobs to some of my political reps, i.e. state senator, congressman, and one other but I forget his title.End result: I only received lip service letters that thanked me, which included a reminder to vote for them in the next election.Guess what dudes? I gave you a big UFCK YOU because I did not vote for any of you!!!!!They checked your name against their list of political contributors and didn't find your name. Hence, you get the form letter. Now had you attended the last $10,000 a plate reelection dinner, you would have had a different outcome. LOL!My father use to say, "There is the ballot vote and there is the dollar vote; two different conversations". He never voted in his life.Remember back when Sprint got rid of 2,000 customers because they felt it was not worth dealing with them??Allegedly customers were calling multiple times about the same concern. Like people even want to be on hold like that and fight thru their telephone web.?If people call back over and over, you can bet a good number of them never got the issue resolved with the prior call(s).People like the guy you talked to, the "sigher", must have cushy jobs and have no cares.Politicians will only send you a form letter back, telling you to write to them with any issues. Which you already did. Which is why I never write to any of them anymore. I once wrote back, "Thanks for wasting my time."I think we are now a communist nation. The constant crap going on is far too much for a free nation. Look how many FEW CHOICES you have now, and how you are taxed for things you don't want to support. Like that guy's job...I'm seeing jobs requiring proficiency in Spanish as well as in English and alaundry?list of other requirements for jobs paying in the lower tier of the middle third of five-figure jobs.And then what I see on glass door...well it's rough out there, folks. It's still rough out there. You really have to know someone.These employers don't care. Salaries are down. There are always plenty of candidates. They figure they'll have no problem getting a new fanny to warm a chair. I don't think it's about quality of work anymore. Of course, if you don't perform then you will be gone. But, for starters, they just don't care who comes in there to do the job. Get someone who knows someone and a favor is owed back to keep the wheel spinning. We're not cogs in their wheel. We are pawns who go out to do the dirty work and are sacrificed. There are always replacements. Gross.Good article about Mark Cuban and his comments about the huge student loan debt problem this country has and how it's nearly impossible to pay it back because of the economic situation.This article also mentions?business?related degrees and how myself and others have been saying how there are way too many business majors now and not enough jobs to go around for them with so many jobs being done in third world countries now.Unless it's?accounting?I would stay far away from business related degrees, MBA's etc.I see my business degree being a big waste of time. I should have went into something more specialized or into?law enforcement.billionaire-mark-cuban-just-dropped-biggest-truth-bomb-student-loans/I just got back from my interview. I think it went about average. Not too bad, but not super good. They will contact me by Friday they said hopefully to let me know if I got the job or not. They have to pass it along to management she said who makes the final decision. The job I did ask and it does pay $13-17 an hour plus bonus and overtime since they're expanding right now. They asked if I was a rockstar and that and if I don't mind stress.This has me worried a bit but if it's 13-17 an?hr?and bonus and benefits I guess I should tough it out then.They also asked if I can speak any languages like Spanish because a lot of the truck?drivers?don't speak English well they broker to. I was honest and said I don't.You can thank NAFTA for that. Its like even here in Missouri that want you to speak Spanish :(They also asked if I worked at all since being out of school and what I have been doing since I have not been working. I told them I was taking 15-18credit?hours my last year and a half of?college?and I just didn't have time to work much.While the interview was okay I think I don't think I'll get the job.That whole language thing is so overboard now.?We are being forced to be?bilingual, but people coming here aren't.Every group has their own country. They can't try to be in it while they are here.I don't even care about the New Year.?I am tired of trying and not getting anywhere.?Family, who doesn't live with me, does not care. Period.?What happened to the American Dream?Presidents are just front men. They are figureheads. They really don't have all of the power.People gave something up to act a certain way. I think I bought into it all for awhile. But I don't now.?I miss the good old days. A regular paycheque, and lots of job if you weren't happy with the one you had.Yep, going to work, planning for the weekend. Not many people worked nights or weekends.?People left work at 5pm.?Now, businesses want us to think "people" want them open 24/7. They just want to put out a bigger time net and get more sales or?business.?Pretty soon, everything will be open 24 hours a day.The only people who luck out are the ones who don't have to work.I don't even care about the New Year.?I am tired of trying and not getting anywhere.?Family, who doesn't live with me, does not care. Period.?What happened to the American Dream?Me either. All I keep thinking about is ringing in the new year with the same Job stres and worries. No reason to celebrate 2015 when there is nothing to look forward to. What do I have in the new year? More applications? Whoop de doo!I looked a lot of TV show marathons today, that helped but only a little. Depressing.I'm with xboxer-don't even really care about it being the new year.Haven't posted in a while, but I have been reading the forums (especially this one) every day. Although I can't say I'm glad you (meaning the regulars) are all still here, it does provide me with a degree of comfort knowing that I'm not the only one who still hasn't found employment yet.Just the other day I had to endure yet another rebuke from a family member regarding my unemployment. Said family member had just gotten home from the?grocery store?and was told by another family member (who is also unemployed but not for the same reasons that I am for the most part anyway)that he was going to have to come up with money to pay for some car maintenance expenses. The first family member turns to me and said "See this is why you need a job-to pay for groceries and car expenses" I would ask that you keep in mind that the family member who said this to me is one that basically worked for the same employer all the years she did work and has been retired now for 10+ years.So once again you guys that come here and post everyday continue to be the only one who get it-that the employment world has changed, that the methods of obtaining employment have changed, that the number of people needing jobs outweighs the supply of jobs, the odds stacked against you when there are hundreds of people applying for the same job once it goes out onto the internet and that you better be an exact match to the requirements or you won't even get an interview, that the majority of jobs out there are jobs that don't pay a living wages but expect the applicant to be willing to work whatever schedules they can come up with and do multiple tasks/have multiple responsibilities and let's not forget you had better be able to do those jobs in a fast-paced environment while paying attention to detail.I know all the above has been said before, but if this year is anything like the previous ones, its going to be the Same S!@#, Different Day for the next 364 days...This person has known me their whole life but can't seem to figure out why I am still unemployed. This person knows my past dealings with people throughout my life and how said dealings may have affected me, knows my medical history and how that affects what kinds of jobs I can apply for. This person knows my educational history, my personality, strengths, weaknesses etc., but can't figure out why I'm not a "good fit" for the types of jobs that are out there. This person should also be able to understand why I don't want to commute for over and hour to a non-salary job that would not pay me enough to live on my own or why I don't want to work with people/have co-workers that are levels of?education?below what I have.I'm tired of all the times I am guilt-tripped about living at home and being reminded that said person is paying for my?health?insurance?when the premiums arrive in the mail. Why can't said person get that it's not that I'm lazy and don't want to work/apply for jobs its that the economy is still in the s!@#ter and that there are still too many factors working against me when it comes to getting a job/that there are too many jobs that are not worth my time/effort in applying to because I won't get them even if I apply to them.Now with the above said, I still love this person and am grateful for having a place to live,?food?to eat, shelter from the weather, internet/TV etc, but this said person just continues to be out of touch/cannot fathom today's employment environment.I don't get these lectures/rebukes everyday, but when I do man do they hurt...Thank you for reading and I wish all of you luck in finding jobs this year.I get the lectures, too. The worst is when they're triggered by something stupid. One day, it's the TV being on with Dr. Phil covering, of all subjects, people who mooch off their folks because they're lazy and/or don't want jobs. Another day, it's your mom's?financial?consultant?suggesting special needs funding for that 27-year-old who's, strangely, still living at home. It almost always results in a fight between my mother and me.Most of all, though, it really bothers me that there's no way around the disconnect between myself and potential employers, no reasoning with them. In a little over four months, I'm turning 28. I started my search when I turned 26. Those are two years that I could have spent starting over, developing my social life, looking for a sense of identity and passion, and just enjoying the tail end of my youth altogether. But instead, they were mostly wasted clawing for a number of interviews that I could probably count on one hand and e-mails with empty compliments and wishes for success. I don't think they really get how much damage a lack of employment does. This isn't a minor inconvenience or a bump in the road for me. It's destroying what should have been the best part of my life, and that's going to haunt me for a long, long time. To know that I will never get those years back is torture.I wish I could have known as a child that things could turn out this badly for me if I didn't explore the world and try to come up with a game plan. I would have lived so differently. Cruel thing about those younger years. They just happen to be the years that are most important for determining your lot in life, but you're too naive and carefree to make them count.You are still very young. I'd give my left foot to be turning 28 again. I remember being 28. I remember wanting to accomplish so much before I turned 30. Didn't happen. I hated it too. Where did all my 30's go? I have nothing to show for those 10 years. So, you have an advantage to me in that you know now what I wish I had known them. How hard jobs are to come by and how hard it is to get ahead and get anything, especially when you are older. You still have youth on your side. 28 is nothing. I to remember feeling old at 28. 28 is young when you're 38. or 48, lol.Don't dwell on losing this "last spent youth" I think we all go through it because we know that by 30 we should all have some idea of what we are doing in your lives, in a real job, sometimes even married with kids. I wish I had left my crap hole job earlier instead of toiling there for all of my 30's because staying was easier than leaving and to just have a job. You still have time to have these bad years and turn them around. Cherish that.I feel lost and hopeless right now too. I feel my depression coming back. The last few days I noticed there was a job lag because Of the holidays so I didn't put to effort in for a while but I'm still not seeing much today. It's making me feel anxious. I can't take another 6 months of this. And you're right, the employers demands make it 100 times harder. Trying to meet their expectations is exhausting not to mention EXTREMELY unrewarding. ne of my family members is a teacher. Makes great money. Day is never over 6-8 hours. Every holiday off and paid. Perks. Great?healthcare?benefits. She gets a pension when she retires. She plans to retire young. So you retire and get money to live off and free healthcare too. Who gets THAT now? She said I know more about science than she does, and she teaches it. She owns a nice home in a nice suburb, always drives a new car, and she goes on vacation. That's ONE income too, she is not married.Not saying being a teacher is the worst profession in these times, but teachers' pensions are being assaulted along with anyone else who might still HAVE a pension. Most teachers I know work day, night, weekends. Plus, they constantly pay the bill for classroom supplies.I find it strange that people attack their salaries. The profession is one of the LAST American professions that guarantee workers' rights. The vast majority of teachers are medium Middle Class earners, like you and I ONCE WERE.Er, so people are attacking them because teachers had the common sense to maintain worker protections???How far we have fallen. We let the billionaires & corporations suck the life, brains and income out of the Middle Class. At the same time we attack the profession that, from the beginning of the?industrial?revolution has fought to keep?children?off the?assembly?line, have foight to raise everyone's lot in life up.I'm not sure what teachers you know, but I DO know married teachers, both of whom have part-time jobs to make ends meet. Especially if they are early in their careers, unlike your friend who has been obviously in it for a while. Besides that, those better salaries and especially pensions are TARGETS for the conservative agenda who really are about aren't much about the middle class succeeding like they claim they were.The American Dream died. It's now called "The American Horror Show". LOL?At least this is how I have been feeling lately.?It's a flipping joke, can't get a job, can't get?insurance, employers drag their feet on?hiring?and most jobs here in CA, Your required to speak Spanish, but if your an illegal, you get insurance, low interest rates and a job, WTF ??????Sometimes I think and feel like I'm in a Twilight Zone Episode and I'm waiting to wake up but I can't get out of the dream. :(The ultra rich have always viewed the "Common man" as a slave. The masses, whatever they call us.?Labor?is an unpleasant part of doing?business, and they hate having to pay people, as you have noticed.Despite the great focus on how far we've come and technology, a lot of us are still slaves. People think of slavery as someone in chains, but slavery can be economic. Where you have to work a job you hate and grovel to the bosses and have limited choices in life.That's why I say, NEVER WORK FREE. The people getting out of?collegewho will work free to get experience are shooting themselves in the foot.Just read up on what com-munism calls us. Then you get a good idea of what our politicians think of us.It takes a lot longer to reach that 'American Dream' than it used to--if you reach it at all. Wages are so stagnant that most never do. I got excited coming across an ad where I fit everything--then got to where you had to speak Spanish. It's the Spanish Dream now as America is more about speaking Spanish than anything else.I was watching The Walking Dead marathon the last couple of days and I really felt like I'd rather be out there scrambling and fighting Walkers than to keep up this job search. At least I could just live however and not have to worry about bills and interviews. I know that sounds ridiculous, but the idea of just forgetting all the cumbersome ties to the real world would be great. Just find a nice empty house and make your life there, get a garden, fight a few walkers on?food?runs every now and then, etc. I'll take it. I will take killing a walker over going to another interview.I was just thinking today of how this all feels like a dream.?How I am just getting by on what I have.?Like I am in the same squirrel cage over and over.?Deja vu-ish like, because now I am going over the same employers all over again looking for work.We are all the pioneers here. There will be more people who come after us and will be in our situation. But they aren't paying attention to us, because we spoil their reality.What you said about Spanish is true. It is as if the North American Union is real, and there are no borders. Anyone can come here and tap into the tax dollars.?This can't keep going on forever, it will run out.I agree. It's like going in circles now with the job market.I just had someone tell me the other day to "hang in there, the economy is going to get better really soon."So I asked why they said that. They told me that the price of gasoline would be going down and it will stimulate things.I said it might help transportation, but it isn't going to help build factories, etc. We have lost our manufacturing base.Another person told me the economy will get better. I asked why and they had no answer. I think they just say that.College?professors are the best gigs to have. Especially the private universities as they pay $$. The university I went to the?assistant?andassociate?professors those are your full-time professors all make around $100k a year or more if they're?business?school teachers as they made the most. They get summers off, lots of days off like students get and they usually only teach 3 classes a semester and most are not union so no union fees to pay, and it's almost impossible to get fired from. Very cushy jobs and it sucks in a way because there is no system really to?fire?crappy professors.It's funny my college had troubles finding full-time?account?professors because the starting pay is ONLY about 100k a year one of our professors said. Everyone just looked at each other like WTF. If I was an?accountantI'd jump all over there to get all that time off and other stuff. I'd do it for 50k a year! Great job security too.I wish I knew of a good place to go. Most large US cities are hell holes now.?I think eventually, the?Industrial?Revolution will go in reverse.?There was a guy who once wrote a book about all of that. He claimed within the next 200 years, the US would be using candles again. Not that we can't do more technology, but just that the increasing population on the dole would undo the advancements. You can see it now with the hospitals that have closed because they couldn't absorb all of the costs for freehealthcare.Wish we all lived in one city. We could meet and discuss what we can do. I guess more minds are better than one.?I know of two teachers in the Chicago Public School system who make between $85-95K. That's for nine months of work. True story.War Thunder is a game you can download for free. I believe it's 20th century based combat. World of Tanks is another free download which is similar. I downloaded it in the past week. Eh. Boring in my opinion. I believe you can pay for upgrades to your tanks. Not sure. I guess that's how it's free. PC-based gaming has nosedived lately.Don't forget all of the benefits they get too.?I see people say they want to get out of teaching and it baffles me. They think everyone in private sector is making more than them. No way. With their hours, holiday pay, and benefits, they are doing pretty well.?I'd advise anyone looking for a career--go teach it.Here is the New York Times map of unemployment rates by each county for men age 24-54. It's pretty alarming. Even counties that are low are still around 15 percent in many cases. Article says man of these men will eventually just give up finding employment.men are discriminated imo due to affirmative action and such especially white males. These days women get picked over men in most cases.interactive/2014/12/12/upshot/where-men-arent-working-map.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=1#/5/38.5/-96.1My cousin from FL is in her first year of?college?and is up here to visit. She said it took her a year to find a part-time job at Wal-Greens down in FL.That shows you what the economy is really like, but I am always getting people telling me the economy is better. They must be on drugs.Had an uncle who was a house painter. He never married and on his spare time, he would buy these old houses and fix them up and sell them. This was back in the 60's. He died a millionaire.If I could go back in time, I would pass on?college?and go to plumbing school or?beauty?school. I think trades are where its at now.I got into another heated argument with my parents this morning about jobs. They say I give up too easily and that there are jobs around here for me if I apply myself to it.I tried explaining?HRIS?software to them like Taleo and Brassing and how they basically automatically black list me and reject me but they don't get it. They say keep applying for those jobs that use Taleo.Taleo is a waste of time. They use it where my sister works. Out of 100 submission, they might look at 10.?I'm sorry to hear you feel that way, Shingami. You pretty much sum up my current state of mind, too (although I must say that trading messages with everybody this afternoon has made me feel a little better).?What's almost as bad as that feeling out of options or lost is the grim realization that, if a job finally does come through, it's likely to turn out to be some horrible thing (oh, say, like working as a?cashier?at a dollar store--which is what I applied for earlier today) that people with better options would never take.Yep. I too am done with near min wage retail cashier type jobs. They treat you like crap, unstable hours and they wreck your resume. That is the problem I have is all my past work is retail related so when I go for a good paying job they see I don't have any experience so then I'm stuck applying to places like Lowes for cashier that pays near min wage. I paid 40,000 in loans for acollege?degree and I'm not working some 15 hour a week job for $8 an hourYep. I too am done with near min wage retail?cashier?type jobs. They treat you like crap, unstable hours and they wreck your resume. That is the problem I have is all my past work is retail related so when I go for a good paying job they see I don't have any experience so then I'm stuck applying to places like Lowes for cashier that pays near min wage. I paid 40,000 in loans for a?college?degree and I'm not working some 15 hour a week job for $8 an hourI hear ya. I absolutely hate the idea of applying for retail jobs, because I've had all those experiences that you mention. It's pretty terrible stuff.I'm sorry to hear you feel that way, Shingami. You pretty much sum up my current state of mind, too (although I must say that trading messages with everybody this afternoon has made me feel a little better).?What's almost as bad as that feeling out of options or lost is the grim realization that, if a job finally does come through, it's likely to turn out to be some horrible thing (oh, say, like working as a?cashier?at a dollar store--which is what I applied for earlier today) that people with better options would never take.I'm just in a bad mood today. That rejection I got just killed my last little bit of spirit I had left. Mostly because in the back of my mind I was hoping to get hired and thought the holidays was holding them up, and to get that generic rejection email---it was like watching my house go up in flames. Another shot at a job gone down the drain. It just truly killed everything inside me to see that email and I sat here in tears for a while. This is my new year? I am just in a downward spiral. My unemployment was also reduced. I think suicide looks pretty good right now. I truly, truly see no light at the end of this.And you are SO RIGHT about the job we get being some crappy job. Like this?law?firm receptionist job that I don't even want to do anymore, shackled to a desk dealing with a@@hole lawyers again. and I hate that all my desperate hope is on something like that that I don't even want. There is nothing but low pay and high job expectations out there. I don't know what I'm doing wrong? The interviews actually go OK, yet always a rejection. I'm tired of interviews altogether. My mental state can't take it anymore.I feel the same way. I'm in my mid-fifties, and next month will mark the fifth anniversary of the day I was let go from my last "permanent" job. Since then, I've gotten by with a mixture of temp positions and self-employment, with some occasional retail work that I always wind up leaving in short order. I realize now that my problems started way back in my twenties, when I didn't find a good employment niche to get into, and wound up making a whole series of bad decisions (including going back to school and racking up gigantic debts) that have led me to where I am today. Unfortunately, I no longer have the?energy, much less the time, to set things right. It stinks.WORK itself was so different three decades ago that there is no comparison. MOST of the jobs then don't exist now or have really changed beyond three decades of preparation. Three decades ago, America still had a middle class, too.One thing I've been meaning to mention to you, after seeing some of your comments about dealing with attorneys, is that, when I was growing up, my mother had suggested that I should become a lawyer. The only?attorney?I had known as a kid was an old, very reserved gentleman, and it gave me the absolutely wrong impression of what lawyers are like. When I got to?college, I discovered that most everyone in the pre-lawprogram was about as obnoxious and rude as could be. I couldn't stand them, so I dropped out of the program in my sophomore year. I've known a bunch of lawyers since then, and, while some of them are nice, most seem to be flat-out jerks. Blechhhh!?Well, I've been on this message on and off through the day, and I really have other things I need to take care of, so I am going to bid adieu to all for now.Once a volunteer, always a volunteer. You volunteer for references & experience. People who hire friends & relatives might consider you. You volunteer to put some serious activity on your resume.When you do that, employers aren't going to hire anyone eventually.Never work free.You undercut yourself, and everyone else. You lower wages and when places know they can get free help, look out.Very true. I learned from my mistake. I went to a place to apply for a job, and the guy recommend that I do volunteer work there for the experience. I did it 3-5 years, and watched them hire friends of the street instead of me or any other volunteer. A co-volunteer said it best: "Why would they hire us? They have us for free."Free internships for?college?credit...I wonder how many employers abuse this to get free?labor?i have to add a big yes on that. Volunteering to do good is one thing, but when you lower yourself out of desperation it weakens us all. I'm an out of work Massage therapist that is coming out of the "alternative medicine craze" when all of a sudden everyone and their brother went to school for massage therapy thinking they could make fifty bucks an hour and work in candlelight and soft music. Now you can't throw a rock without hitting a therapist. They are all undercutting each other prices trying to retain clients on the books, greatly de-valuing the profession and making way for Corporate sweatshops like Massage Envy to destroy us.It's like that in a lot of professions now.?Those schools are saturating everything and the employers love it. Tons of desperate workers and lowered pay and no benefits.Those schools are saturating everything and the employers love it. Tons of desperate workers and lowered pay and no benefits.Yeah isn't that the truth. Colleges and employers meet to create big?businessI have had 3 people tell me in the past 4 weeks that the economy has improved and we are out of the recession.?Unbelievable.You don't need a robust job market for a thriving economy. Not anymore.I swear on indeed, craigslist, monster the last 2 months or so I'm seeing less and less jobs and the ones I am seeing are part-time and or low wage low skill jobs. Nothing to pay any bills with.Me too! Or I'm seeing jobs or getting job alerts from jobs I'm nowhere near qualified for--medical profession, managers. I'm like "WTF?" I'm also seeing less and less jobs and the ones I see are either part time or some insane job description with 200 duties for $9 an hour. When I read the duties half the time I don't even know what they are asking you to do so I just keep going. It's depressing, I'm averaging 1 job application a day, if that."Receptionist" jobs ARE now the dumping ground. The employers get everything an exec secretary does for half the price. And because of the shortage of jobs and volumes of people who want jobs, they get away with the BA crap, or a BS in "secretarial sciences", which in all my life I have never heard of. But yeah, if you have one, they'll pay you 8 bucks an hour. Ridiculous.Ever feel like you have already applied everywhere!!!!!!!!!?Then what do you do?Absolutely. It seems like, on almost any given day when I go through job listings, almost all of them are for positions, or at companies, where I've already struck out.?Today, for the first time in I-don't-know-how-long, I managed to find two jobs (not counting "scraping the barrel" ones like that dollar store?cashier?job I applied for a few days ago) that I hadn't seen before, and I applied for them. I probably don't have a snowball's chance in heck of even getting an interview, but at least I can take a tiny amount of satisfaction in knowing that I gave them a shot.?And then I can add them to the huge list of jobs that I've already applied for and didn't get.So, this?evening?on the supposed "news", the report is that job growth is taking off by leaps and bounds. "They" did 30 seconds on a?computer?company that just hired 6 people.The other side which was reported was that wages are barely keeping pace with inflation. I can believe that as I have been experiencing that myself.The first question to me (because it was not reported on) was "where are all these jobs being created?" Retail and?food serviceas has been mostly the case for years now? Low wage and part time type thing?I tend to believe the folks here who have been looking for, but unable to find work over?government?stats.So, this?evening?on the supposed "news", the report is that job growth is taking off by leaps and bounds. "They" did 30 seconds on a?computer?company that just hired 6 people.The other side which was reported was that wages are barely keeping pace with inflation. I can believe that as I have been experiencing that myself.The first question to me (because it was not reported on) was "where are all these jobs being created?" Retail and?food service?as has been mostly the case for years now? Low wage and part time type thing?I tend to believe the folks here who have been looking for, but unable to find work over?government?stats.Well, they are lying. There is some turnover, but I'd hardly call 6 jobs any progress. Things have gotten worse, and they keep chanting how it's getting better.?It's not. We know that.?So this is just propaganda and then people doubt themselves because they say there are jobs now out there but why can't you find one??Some friends tell me they believe things are getting ready to change for the better.Near the beginning of the recession, money guru Suze Orman said the economy (by her estimation) was not going to emerge from its destruction until year 2015. I remember thinking, "Wow, that's a long time to wait!"We're all in this mess because of the economy. If it improves enough, jobs will come. It is "slowly improving," but it always takes a while for things to really "kick in." The economy spiraled downward the same way.Hopefully, it's on its way back.Pray for patience and perseverance.The economy isn't some ghost element.?When most of the manufacturing jobs left America, it wasn't justfactory?jobs that went.?We haven't gotten those back.?Besides the manufacturing jobs, there were so many other industries that were supported by manufacturing.?Insurance, computers, uniforms,?catering, and more. The impact was horrendous.?After 2019, only one in ten Americans work in manufacturing.We don't need the media to tell us that the economy is good or bad. We can see it ourselves.?Your?grocery?cart is double in cost from about 10 years ago, and if you are working, you're making a lot less than you think you should, and if you aren't working, it's next to impossible to get a job.We don't have time for that kind of wait. I wish I had known what I wanted to do when I was younger. My dream job is to be a writer, I wrote a couple of books but they are EXTREME rough drafts and I don't know why, but I can't find that motivation anymore to write like I used to. Not to mention I can only imagine the rejection when I try to sell a manuscript, lol. But I see things like '50 shades of Grey' become a worlds best seller and think if that book can be a hit I know something I write should be able to, but then again it's still about who you know and luck.I wish I had not settled in my last job, although it did help me have some longevity somewhere and I sell that now. I know I wouldn't have such disdain for the economy or have completely lost Faith in life in?general?had I found a job 5 months ago. I was actually getting calls and interviews a week after losing my job and nothing panned out. I mean not ONE! I know the interviews weren't that bad, I actually got SECOND interviews. Just sick of this.So, this?evening?on the supposed "news", the report is that job growth is taking off by leaps and bounds. "They" did 30 seconds on a?computer?company that just hired 6 people.The other side which was reported was that wages are barely keeping pace with inflation. I can believe that as I have been experiencing that myself.The first question to me (because it was not reported on) was "where are all these jobs being created?" Retail and?food service?as has been mostly the case for years now? Low wage and part time type thing?I tend to believe the folks here who have been looking for, but unable to find work over?government?stats.I saw that, and you beat me to the post! Yep, bet you all didn't KNOW that 2014 has been the best year for job growth since 2009!! You gotta love how the networks swallow what ever Uncle Sam feeds them.Shingami, have you looked into self-publishing in an e-book format through something like Amazon? Lots of people are doing that, and some have great (or at least moderate) success.news/self-publishing-a-book-25-things-you-need-to-know/Xboxer,You said earlier you feared homelessness. Oh boy, can I relate to that! It has been one of my biggest fears all my life, I think mostly because I am basically a loner.When I look at the world and how in so many ways I don't fit in, I've thought, "How am I ever going to make it?"Most people are strangers to me until I really get to know them. I don't have the "gift of gab" to be a great networker/socializer. I forced myself to take?college?courses (though I detested every moment of it), but I never got a degree. Technology and computers are so important today, and I'm not really interested in all that stuff to want to further my skills. I'm middle aged. I'm divorced, not into dating and not interested in marrying again. No kids, so who is going to care enough to look after me in my old age if I live that long? The majority of my friends are older and I'm the youngest of my siblings.I can drive myself nuts with those thoughts. But when the chips are really down, my life has always taken unexpected turns, and somehow I am given the strength to keep going.I hope and pray that none of us will give up.Sounds like the people jumping off the bridge were given far too much.?To Xboxer:God is not going to save everybody. Every day, people jump from the bridge with zero belief in him.My life is not my own. IMO, that's what being a?Christian?is. I give up what the world strives for and my life is dedicated to God's will. The Lord "orders my steps," and I can see it, even in bad times.I asked for many situations because my desire is to continually go "deeper" with God. I tell him daily to change me, break bad habits, etc. I also pray for a lot of people and situations in the world.How do you change your nature? How does your thinking change? I'll tell ya, trials and tribulations bring more people closer to God than anything else. That's "one" reason why he allows them, especially in a believer's life.We can point fingers when see the bad things other people are doing. Then we say, "I'd never do that, Lord." I've done it myself. God already knows what's in my heart and what I'm going to do, but he wants ME to see it. Then, it's like he brings a similar situation (test) to me. If I fail the test, I immediately look into the mirror and see that I'm not as strong as I thought I was. I can't boast. I am always reminded that I will never be perfect in this life, but that I must continually be committed to change.He created me to worship him eternally and to look to him for all my needs. It's what he desires from everyone, really.I've been through many bad times. I've asked "why" many times. But looking back, I can honestly say that my faith is stronger and I am closer to him the older I get.That is God's work in my life.We don't have time for that kind of wait. I wish I had known what I wanted to do when I was younger. My dream job is to be a writer, I wrote a couple of books but they are EXTREME rough drafts and I don't know why, but I can't find that motivation anymore to write like I used to. Not to mention I can only imagine the rejection when I try to sell a manuscript, lol. But I see things like '50 shades of Grey' become a worlds best seller and think if that book can be a hit I know something I write should be able to, but then again it's still about who you know and luck.I wish I had not settled in my last job, although it did help me have some longevity somewhere and I sell that now. I know I wouldn't have such disdain for the economy or have completely lost Faith in life ingeneral?had I found a job 5 months ago. I was actually getting calls and interviews a week after losing my job and nothing panned out. I mean not ONE! I know the interviews weren't that bad, I actually got SECOND interviews. Just sick of this.I can so relate. Not only have I lost hope but I have lost faith along the way.?I just don't get it. I could understand if I was a bad person or something, but heck even when I was working or receiving unemployment, I'd still buy the homeless people I can across lunch or dinner along with showing them compassion and understanding, you'd be amazed at the stories they have to tell. It just saddens me as a human being that no one gives a Sh*t about what's really going on in the world concerning the unemployed going on several job interviews with the same company only to have the company hire a non-qualified relative instead, we see the news flash with killings going on every where and fake new reports on how the economy is getting better when it isn't.Knowing the truth is not being "jaded" though. It's staying in reality. No matter how painful it is. It is what it is.That is true. However, without at least "hope" (and for some of us, faith in God), what have we got? If we lose hope... Well, you see it every day. And not too far from me, folks are jumping from the bridge at the Hoover Dam in Boulder?City.I'm not going to faint, no matter what. And personally, I don't believe the Lord will allow me get to that point. He knows what I can and cannot bear.I use to think that but now I no longer have faith or hope.?Everything I am going through makes me wonder what kind of god would just stand around and let this happen. I could understand if I was a bad person or something, but UFCK, coming close to loosing everything that you own is the last straw for me. I am doing my best to stay hopeful that something will come along job wise, but it better be fast or I will be joining many others in the statics of jumping off the San Pedro bridge. Well not really, I'd probably just over dose on my pain meds and take that long awaited dirt nap.I totally agree.?I know people who just threw in the towel on finding employment and took the dirt nap for death, through overdosing on meds, hanging themselves and jumping off a bridge.?They were all good people. One was my neighbor who hung himself, he was the nicest guy too. I got to met his parents and told him that I was sorry for their loss and told him that their son was amazing. His mom cried when I told her this information. I told her sometimes people are in internal pain and no one can understand no matter how they try to explain it.I bet it's not just the job. I bet it's a constant barrage of disappointment and fails.?Over and over. Most people can deal with one big problem, but it's when you get an onslaught of bad deals.?It's very sad, and our world likes to pretend they care about people, but it's just the trendy media savvy things that people want to get attention for.Yep, the media crucified Apple for using Foxconn, but everyone in the?electronics?industry uses them. They talked about the suicide nets, etc., but over here, people have done away with themselves over jobs. I had heard a report on the radio about a guy who had to train his "replacement" and then was let go. He shot himself in his car in the parking lot.There is such a need here, in the US.Managers hire their family and friends. Then they make the real workers pick up the slack.?I once worked for a family business and I got a?customer?worth 60K to the business in sales. I nurtured and courted this customer, only to be told that the commission would go to the guy behind me. I was WTF, and it turned out that the guy behind me, with a different surname, was the owner's son.They made up some silly reason for him to get the commission, "It's Tuesday, that's HIS day" and I walked out. Before I did, I went and gave his mother, the owner, a piece of my mind. She was very religious and I remember looking at her god clock above her desk.Why do I notice all the casinos in town are always?hiring? I have one near me that is always hiring. Is working in a?casino?a high pressure, high turnover industry? Is it worth applying for or would it be another one of those bs low paying high stress jobs?I mean when I see them always?advertising?and that is has me wondering if they're not a good place to work because if they were people wouldn't be leaving.High turnover is why they have so many options. If a place has high turnover, consider going there. I didn't. You could be another casualty (probably will be!) and it'll mess up your career. You'll either have to lie about being 'let go', either have to leave it off and have an unexplained gap, or just have wasted time in which you could've been at a job that would have actually helped your career.I always suggest going on glassdoor. If there's no glassdoor for the company, I usually consider that a yellow (caution) flag, automatically.I read those reviews. The downside to these review websites is people from the company actually post fake reviews in order to give their company good remarks. Northern Tool does that. I caught my?assistant manager?leaving a review on it because she listed our store on the indeed review saying how great pay and how great the company is. When in reality they pay even their managers low and treat their employees like dirt. This was when they were desperately seeking help because they were short staffed knowing people going on Indeed would see northern tool listed.I declined a position at Clarks shoes after reading all the bad reviews on indeed and glassdoor. It turns out I would have been working 44 hours a week and only making 2 bucks an hour because it was basically entirely commission based. I remember when I did the phone interview with the?assistant?manager he even hesitated and asked why I'm even applying there in the first place since I got my degree now.How can someone be religious but go work in a?casino? Gambling, alcohol, strippers...just doesn't sound consistent.A very nice?church?here regularly enters casinos. They're not gambling either. Their "singles group" meets for lunch at the restaurants inside the casinos.They are patronizing a place that profits off gambling. You can't just dismiss that. One has to wonder why any church would have anything to do with a casino. It's like going into a cathouse and saying you didn't use any of the women. Weird.One of the huge problems in Las Vegas is that so many of the jobs are tied to?customer service?since it's such a tourist destination.The casinos have everything in them. Some are designed to be more family-friendly. There are theaters, roller coasters, concerts, conventions and sporting?events. It seems every major?chef?has a restaurant in one of those casinos. And if I want to go out for breakfast, I'm usually going to go inside a casino. They are the hub of Las Vegas.I hate to see Las Vegas grow so huge, but I am hoping they continue to bring other types of businesses here--and especially out this way in Henderson.They are patronizing a place that profits off gambling. You can't just dismiss that. One has to wonder why any?church?would have anything to do with a?casino. It's like going into a cathouse and saying you didn't use any of the women. Weird.I look at it this way: They are going inside a casino to get to somewhere else--the buffet. There are so many great restaurants and buffets in the casinos.If, say, I heard that inside the MGM there was only gambling and bars and that a church group was going there, I'd probably say "Hmm..."Can't believe any church would patronize those places at all. Definitely some biblical conflicts there. Doesn't matter if there are buffets. According to the bible, you don't get to decide.Can't believe any?church?would patronize those places at all. Definitely some biblical conflicts there. Doesn't matter if there are buffets. According to the bible, you don't get to decide.Xboxer,I'm sorry, but I disagree with you completely. The bible is against gambling. Jesus went around some not-so-nice folks and entered places where religious folk said, "How dare he!"You have to weigh things. I can enter a?casino?all day long, walk right to my theater, watch a movie and leave when it's over. Some people can't do that because other things in the casino entices them.I am very careful about exposing myself to things that could be hurtful to my spirit. Like, I don't like a lot of wildness. I don't like seeing people drunk and acting crazy. It disturbs me spiritually and emotionally. I don't see the good in it.But so far, I'm not going into casinos like that. What I see at the ones I watch movies in is tame. People seem like they just came to town and are walking around happy.God's word is against gambling, for sure.I don't have a problem with what I'm doing, so I'm good.I hope you are not offended by my posts, because I wrote them sincerely from the heart. I feel like you are now wagging a finger at me and saying, "See, I KNEW I'd catch you, miss goody goody. You are a fake!"There is. I don't want to find it at the moment, but there is.I don't play the lottery either. I have played "free" sweepstakes online and have won some fairly nice things over the years. And that I definitely don't have a problem with.. A place to vent... Over 4 years of being unemployed. One was spent being underemployed. Despite having experience, educated with an MBA, which I earned from working while in school... I hear crickets now when I send my resume into the abyss. I can not recall the last time anyone called me to discuss my resume. Funny that back in 2006 recruiters would call me about once a month. By the end of 2010 I was out of work and saying to myself, my?education?and experience has to count for something... it did, but not what I thought... It seems that employers don't want someone like me because I may want a higher salary than someone with less experience and/or education. I now feel like a knife that has been sharpened so much that it is only allowed to do tasks that have become almost non-existent. Like a scalpel for an operation but surrounded by steak knives and meat cleavers. I?exercise?everyday (only because I have not worked for so long), try to stay active with friends but even that has become a struggle... If your not making money it becomes quite a challenge to do anything that is not free. I had to move in with my parents at 42 just so I can make what money I do have last. I know there are others like me out there but when does one say enough is enough? I watch the news and read but find that it is odd that the President and most of the media says the U.S. is doing better and yet I find myself in a very unfortunate scenario that is almost unexplainable. As a kid I use to think that people who are unemployed and poor are only those that don't want to work and/or are uneducated. I want to work and am highly educated with experience. Where does that fit? I am at a loss and not sure what else I can do. I thought of joining the military but I am too old now. I've done some volunteer work but let's face it, there is no pay and I can't be free?laborforever. Pride has kept me from?government?assistance but once my money runs out, where am I going to turn?The more people volunteer at companies, the more wages will go down.?Employers love free?labor.I don't believe in biggovernment?socialist policies because wealth is not created from handouts. Hard work is what creates opportunity... not free stuff. But, as I mentioned, once my money is gone...? My parents are only getting by themselves... They retired and are on a fixed income. Despite their help I feel horrible that I am living with them. They don't say much but even I can tell they are worried of my situation. Not sure if there is much more to say that has not been mentioned by someone like me. I did not grow up poor but I was never rich. Opportunity for me always came because of a result of my work. Now, I am poor, have no job and can't seem to find anything. I wonder what the next 4 years will be like?Why do you think it's you??There are very few jobs out there.I don't think it's entirely me but I also don't think it's entirely something or someone else. Like I said, opportunity comes from work but that opportunity has to be also readily available. I know that there are fewer jobs out there but the labour department and the media seem to paint a very different picture from the one I see. I was a kid of the 70s with cousins graduating from?collegeto the unemployment of the late 70s and early 80s. What I see now of myself seems to fit that picture better but there is no high unemployment, no high inflation, and no high commodity prices. So why is it that someone like me... with an?education, good work ethics, and experience, unable to find work? I know there are others like me but my point is... Don't you find it odd? It's not just me... the picture is somehow being manipulated... but I honestly don't understand how or why.Unions especially for low paying jobs are pretty much a joke that doesn't benefit newer employees just the grandfathered ones who been there for years.I went on a interview for a bagger, stock?clerk?position for agrocery store?here in town. Of course all the big stores are union and MO at the moment is not Right to Work yet. The position paid min wage AND after 1000 hours a .10 raise! But there was a $150 dollar union initiation fee on top of your union dues you pay out of every pay check.After so many hours you get that .10 raise and eligible for?healthinsurance which isn't even really good. After taxes and union dues I would have been making around $5 or less an hour and only offered 15-20 hours a week.I didn't turn the job down at the time and then a few days later I got a voice mail saying they needed MORE than 3 references. I never returned the call.Why does it seem that everyone is finding really low wage jobs, but if you look around out there, people are buying big homes (400K types), new cars, vacations, etc.? Who ARE these people and just how do they get big paying jobs? It seems everyone is being low-balled and underpaid or underemployed, IF you find a job.?So it IS out there, but why aren't any of us finding them??I'm a professional, but I constantly am low-balled, that's if I get an interview.What's the secret?What kind of careers do these people have??Are THESE people the friends and families of bosses?Ok, I just found this ad on craigslist and I am Soooooo tempted to reply and go off on the person posting this job. This is just ridiculous! They are asking you to do everything but wipe their Azz!!We are looking for a?full time?General Office?--?Administrative?/Data Entry?/ Office?Assistant/Clerical?clerk?.The ideal candidate is enthusiastic, professional, and friendly with a strong work ethic.?We will train the right person. Background check is a part of thehiring?process.?This is a full-time position with variable hours, but usually from 9 AM-5 PM Monday-Friday.?Duties include, but are not limited to:?? Answering phone calls and e-mail?? Filing, including organizing and maintaining files/sending emails? Copying/scanning documents, and mailing out brochures???General?Office duties as directed?? Planning company?events/making follow up calls???Data?Entry?? Preparing shipments?o You may be asked to help with lifting heavy drums as part of preparing shipments?? Making labels for outgoing shipments (UPS /?FedEx, USPS)?? Preparing shipping documents?? Sending samples to customers?? After sending samples, you need to follow-up?? Follow-up with customers for their future requirements?? Follow-up with vendors?? Follow-up for incoming and outgoing shipments?? Follow-up with clearing agents for?international?incoming and outgoing shipments?? Follow-up with Organic certifying agency (OTCO)?? Follow-up with the Media?? Light office?cleaning?(vacuuming, dusting, keeping things neat, etc.)?? Need to coordinate with management team and report to them?? Complete tasks in a timely mannerI once interviewed for a job like that with a builder.?I was told I would have to get there at 7am, everyone else comes in at 8am, so I'd have to run the show until they all showed up.?I was told I had to organize all of the supply samples, order them as needed, call to make sure constantly to make sure they were available. I was told I had to check blueprints, go to sites to make sure all of the?construction?materials would be delivered so construction could begin. I was told I'd have to figure out how much of whatever was to be ordered, say siding, brick, flooring, paneling, stone, etc.?I was getting dizzy hearing this. I was told I was to do all of this for the 3 salesmen, so they would get more time. Oh, plus you had to man the storefront in case anyone came in and wanted a particular type of material for homebuilding. OMG.All for $10 an hour.It was a family?business, and basically, I'd be doing everything for the family members, allowing them to come in later, go home earlier, not work weekends.Translation: Slave job.Forgot to mention, no benefits. But the family and original workers all had them.How are these people able to afford new homes and new cars and 200 dollar purses?Credit. Debt.But you have to qualify. If someone only makes 20K a year, they aren't going to qualify for a 400K home...?They also have to make payments, so the more they buy, the larger the minimum monthly payment will be.It just doesn't add up. Maybe some of them have overpaid, gravy jobs, but in the current environment, I can't see how that is happening. Every place I go, it's reduced wages.Managers are?hiring?friends and family. Which makes for a lot of dead wood in companies and everyone else has to do their jobs. I call it Corporate Welfare.There is a definite lack of jobs.?New jobs are not being created to offset the problem.?Present jobs are being eliminated to cut costs.The population is increasing and more and more people are coming into this country.So those 3 things alone are causing the problem of not getting a job.I do agree that not enough jobs are being created... The narrative that is presented by the current?administration?and the media is that unemployment is low (or better than in 2009) so the US is better. I stopped looking at unemployment numbers and focused on?labor?participation rates, demographics of working age adults excluding those on disability and those over 70. It is more work to research but it's not like I am busy.I do think you are correct on "corporate welfare" to an extent. Corporate cronyism is easier to accomplish in smaller organizations however, in large corporations, it is not quite so easy. Not saying it does not exist but that it is more difficult to perpetuate over a long period of time. My first job out of?college?I worked for a medium size company. My then boss was a jerk... And his boss was an even bigger jerk. Long story short, they eventually were both let go. It took about 3 years for senior management to figure out what was going on but long term, corporate cronyism does not last long unless all of management is involved.As for population growth and foreign nationals legally or illegally entering the country, I believe you are partially correct but not entirely. There is more competition for fewer jobs but?educationand experience also has it's role. I know how to change the oil in my car but it does not mean I will be hired at a lube station to do so. I am competing for a different job.We lost our manufacturing base and this affected far more than just manufacturing jobs.I am confused as to why people can't see this, and they just remark how the economy has "recovered". It's like some flippant statement they recite, like they are parroting the news.The increasing cheap?labor?being brought into the US, and it's not all unskilled, look at IT...is hurting us horribly. Obviously, our "elected representatives" care little for us.If someone only makes 20K a year, they aren't going to qualify for a 400K home...?They also have to make payments, so the more they buy, the larger the minimum monthly payment will be.?Where I live, it seems like more poor people drive brand new cars than rich people. A friend of mine has SSDI and qualified for a loan to lease a new car. I don't get it.I think a lot of people are getting themselves into serious trouble by signing up for loans they won't be able to pay off.SSI/Disability, yep. A lot of those people live in terrible little ghettos or apartments and act hood rich. SUVs with a quarter tank of gas in them, don't pay their bills, etc etc. I know one of them who is renting out for a bunch of illegals and makes 3,000$/month just to house them all, and you guessed it! She's not reporting it! So she's living off of untaxed money.Then there's the rich people who keep getting richer and securing their positions with their power circles and jerk sessions, and thus, they continuously get more money and more networking opportunities and more raises and more bonuses. They'll ALWAYS be fine.And then there's the rest of us humble saps who didn't want to rub our own egos and create superficial, super-inflated senses of worth while in the working world and now we're stuck here. At least that was my case. OMG. You know places are getting so cheap. It's all about merging jobs. "Oh, let's not hire?housekeeping?help, we will just let the office staff do it."Heard of this long ago when a big?business?hired a?consultingcompany to "advise them" on how to "streamline" and "cut costs". That meant cutting heads.So they decided that the office people could all vacuum their own area, empty their own trash, etc.If this business didn't hire this expensive?consultant?firm, I bet they could have kept their cleaning crew.So-called "experts". Just eliminating jobs. Right.They have panel interviews for?DATA ENTRY?now? I tried interviewing for one last Oct and had a phone interview but the guy said with my degree and past work history I was way too experienced for it he thought but that he'd pass it to his supervisor because I could always work my way up and become a?insurance?salesman he said. It was for a local insurance office. Part-time 20 hrs a week at $10 an hour. I hear that a lot though when I apply for low paying jobs or part-time they say I look too experienced and educated and I would quit when a good paying job comes around.Another Stl person! The local news here in St. Louis says MO unemployment keeps on improving and is only 5.5 percent I heard not long ago. The lowest since 2008. There must be BS to those numbers because it has to be worse than that.lately I'm noticing even less jobs on craiglist, monster, indeed etc. Last fall there were a lot more jobs listed and I was having better luck getting a few interviews and employers calling me but I turned it down. However this new year I'm noticing very few jobs. I thought there are usually more jobs after the new year? I'm not talking about retail that lays off temp workers after Christmas but actual full-time jobs.NeedRealJob, I haven't been keeping up with the news but them saying unemployment is improving is ridiculous. I primarily search craigslist, and yeah, there's less jobs right now. All I'm seeing now is fake job ads made by staffing agencies.Who knows where all the jobs are right now? All I know is I'm tired of the news basically telling us that we should be able to find a job right now.Checked indeed, craiglist today and it just seems each day less and less jobs posted. I don't fill out those stupid Kronos or Taleo long apps out anymore as well. Waste of time.I guess maybe I should start researching and thinking about what skills I can use to be my own employer? I think I'm to that point now. Maybe get certifications for?computer?stuff?And even when there are jobs I see usually if it's a good paying, liveable wage one I never get called anyways. It's only near min wage retail I get bites on. I guess I'd be better off learning a skill then than wasting hours on job applications.New to the Forum, I lost my job in Sept nothing wrong done on my part by my boss stabbed me in the back and decided to?fire?me after 5 years and we were friends. He had a lot going on in his personal life and I think he decided to "clean house" at work also. Anyway he ended up losing his job 1 month after because the company investigated my firing and other coworkers spoke about his character. I was able to get unemployment, and it ends this month last week of Jan. State of MI only gives people 20 weeks of unemployment with no extensions. I've applied to several?admin/clericaljobs no luck only 2 interviews so far and that's includung 1 today for a $9?hrpart time 20hrs a week job, that's only $180 a week not including taxes. I was bringing home $404 a week in my previous job, today I had a mental breakdown after the interview hearing those hours. I'm scared I will have to struggle mentally longer in order to find a job with decent pay?full time. I don't want to work at Walmart or McDonald's either that's more depressing. I feel everything in my life has truly happened for a reason, but I cannot figure out the reason I'm in my situation. I'm hoping like people say what's meant to be will happen with time, but I don't have "time" The news is claiming unemployment has gotten better, yea right! Both jobs I interviewed for the first one said they got 118 apps the first day it posted! Cant imagine how many more the rest of the week! Then today during my interview the lady had to stop to take calls about the job! And a girl walked in with her resume during the interview! How awkward!NeedRealJob, I haven't been keeping up with the news but them saying unemployment is improving is ridiculous. I primarily search craigslist, and yeah, there's less jobs right now. All I'm seeing now is fake job ads made by staffing agencies.Who knows where all the jobs are right now? All I know is I'm tired of the news basically telling us that we should be able to find a job right now.The news is all propaganda, and people go around repeating the mantras.?I hear it too.?I get told "the recession is over." I say, "How?"I sell my own gently used clothes and handbags on eBay, been doing it for over a year now and I've made alittle extra $. However with my unemployment ending at the end of the month a friend suggested checking out Goodwill's in nice areas and picking out things to sell on eBay. From what I have read millions go this all the time! Has anyone or does anyone sell on eBay?Where I live, if you collect unemployment, any income you make while on that, you have to declare weekly, and it's deducted from the amount of UE you make. So you always get the same amount on UE, you can't make more.When I was on UE a long time ago, I did go work here and there for a friend of mine. I had to declare it, and of course, did not get ahead, but I wanted to show my skills and if something came up, I hoped to get a real position. It never happened, but I thought I erred on the good side."Times are good again". I tell them that every time someone wants me to donate to some starving?children's campaign.Yeah, makes you feel like someone should donate to you.I read in a newspaper from another?city?where someone wrote in and said they don't get all the fuss about the economy, that they were living well and couldn't see why people were complaining.?Talk about bragging.That job I interviewed for a couple weeks ago and tried calling again this week for my status still has not called me for the second interview like they promised within the two weeks. So today I check their website out and now instead of offering $13-17 an hour for that position they're not offer $17-20 an hour!That is quite odd. That likely means they can't find anyone qualified for that job. The deal breaker with me I think is I don't speak Spanish.Where I live, if you collect unemployment, any income you make while on that, you have to declare weekly, and it's deducted from the amount of UE you make. So you always get the same amount on UE, you can't make more.When I was on UE a long time ago, I did go work here and there for a friend of mine. I had to declare it, and of course, did not get ahead, but I wanted to show my skills and if something came up, I hoped to get a real position. It never happened, but I thought I erred on the good side.Same for MI but I don't claim it, im not a power seller and I'm not?bankinghundreds not even $10 sometimes in 2 weeks or longer. I don't see why any NON taxable side money should be reported. If you help someone plow there driveway and they hand you a $10 I don't see why that should count.For the past 6 months I have been working as a part time, long term temp as an office?administrator. I enjoyed the work and was often complemented on my performance. (Last week I received a bottle of wine from a seniorexecutive?who was very grateful for my assistance in a project of his.)I thought everything was going smoothly until last night the staffing agency called to let me know that it had been my last day. The only info they gave me as to why I was being let go was that the company felt I had become comfortable after almost 6 months of working their. Confused I asked if they had complained about my performance. The staffing?coordinator?said no, but they said that I was getting more comfortable, expressing that I knew what I was doing and was no longer on my toes.Now I understand what he was talking about. I had become more comfortable and I did feel like I knew what I was doing, I mean shouldn't I after almost 6 months? I'll admit that I wasn't asking for assignments as aggressively as at the beginning but I was hardly slacking. I was ALWAYS 5-15 minutes early where as my coworkers would routinely stroll in between 9:15 and 9:30 and I was always busy from 8:45 till I left at 5. Even coming in extra days if they needed me. I never was on social media or went shopping online as some of my coworkers did.I am confused as to why I was let go and second guessing what more I could have done to please them. Is it unreasonable to be comfortable at a job after 6 months? Doesn't everyone relax their pace a little after months on the job?Yeah, makes you feel like someone should donate to you.I read in a newspaper from another?city?where someone wrote in and said they don't get all the fuss about the economy, that they were living well and couldn't see why people were complaining.?Talk about bragging.Clueless. I find that about a lot of people..."really? I got my job right away"...that's great, but you're clueless about the suffering going on out there. I think they don't WANT to see it.Not unreasonable at all. Are you sure they're not planning on?hiring?you themselves and just want out of theircontract?with the temp agency?If they want to hire you, they won't let you go first. They'll just pay the agency to get you. Also, I'm sorry Confused but leaving 5-15 minutes late doesn't matter. I did that at my last salaried job and it meant nothing. When I'd leave half an hour late at my temp jobs, they'd always give me a confused look.As a temp, you have literally no rights. You're just a warm body. And no, I was comfortable after 6 months, but you NEVER let your employer see that. Not unless you're in - and you're not in if you're a temp. Always stare and squint hard at the screen like you're solving a complicated math problem, always rush around, take 20 minute lunches, make them feel like letting you go will be a loss - not that "oh, if they're comfortable at this point, then how hard is the job? Will they start demanding a pay raise? NEXT!"I know the temping world all too well. They can treat you like trash if they can, and if they think you're not busy enough, like, exhausted busy, they'll look at you real funny. That position isn't salaried for a reason...Yes I would be comfortable after 6 months that's half a year. It could be they liked you but we're not going to hire you in so they will just bring in a new temp. What I meant is they maybe didn't want you to continue and have your hopes let down. Or they are in other ways saying saying "slacking" but using "comfortable" as a way to describe it.I've never meant an agency that temp'ed people that was so nice as to 'let you go' just to spare you the heartache when they told you it was never going perm, there'd be a pay raise, etc. That termination is also now on the employees record/a factor - what favor were they doing them? Companies DO ask if you "completed an assignment successfully", which she now must answer truthfully, or choose to lie about.No favors were done for this poor temp. They just initiated a movie I like to call the "The Temp Turnover". In my first temp job, I became friends with another temp who worked there for a year. They even offered her an?HRposition. But what'd they do? They let her go and said they weren't renewing the receptionist position and weren't having receptionists anymore. Now, we all know every job needs a receptionist so.... The Temp Turnover is a favored move by many-a corporation.Still nothing new. I have not applied for a job in over 2 weeks now. Just nothing out there I'd be qualified for and I'm noticing a lot less jobs the last couple weeks. Things look to be drying up.I thought economy was improving but I see less places?hiring?now.Do you know WHY you thought the economy was improving??Because people who have been unemployed for over 12 months no longer count as unemployed.?The statistics are flawed and the media is echoing false information. JustGoogle?it...even Forbes has done several articles on the real unemployment rate.Reality is that you'll probably have to settle for a part time, minimum wage position in the service industry since those are pretty much the only jobs becoming available. Or, ya know, move to a country whose economy isn't completely in the toilet. lolMost of the jobs out there that don't involve?accounting, medical, engineering or some other highly skilled specialty degree are mostly part-time or near min wage retail or service and if it isn't then they want at least 10 years experience in that field, and 7 references along with 3 pages of job duties.This is true. I think it's gotten worse. I can't believe some of the stuff I've seen. With wages from 1988. It's scary having to have a 'take what you can get' attitude.A lot of jobs are being outsourced that don't require specific hard skills that are in high demand - but even those are being outsourced overseas. Ex: Tech jobsThis is true. I think it's gotten worse. I can't believe some of the stuff I've seen. With wages from 1988. It's scary having to have a 'take what you can get' attitude.I just don't see how the situation can continue on like this. Something will have to be done or society will completely go down to the lowest depths. This is hitting a wide variety of folks, not just the poor and uneducated.This is true. I think it's gotten worse. I can't believe some of the stuff I've seen. With wages from 1988. It's scary having to have a 'take what you can get' attitude.Like in retail most places are paying min wage like $7.50 an hour range. When I was hired at?Home Depot?in Aug 2003 they started me off at $8.50 an hour and that was low because years before that Home Depot paid a lot more than that. Now Home Depot is $7.50-8 an hour for cashiers. Retail wages have been going DOWN the last 5 years.Another funny ad I posted a couple weeks ago was from Craigslist a warehouse job for $8.50 an hour wanted you to write an essay about yourself why you're a fit for this job and have a stable work history and along with about two pages worth of job duties.Another funny ad I posted a couple weeks ago was from Craigslist a warehouse job for $8.50 an hour wanted you to write an essay about yourself why you're a fit for this job and have a stable work history and along with about two pages worth of job duties.LOL. The nerve of some of these companies. I also realized that companies are a-okay with treating new employees like crap because they know they can just replace them with other desperate job-seekers and people are BEGGING for the job - so it's not like they're worried about treating you terribly or like scum. I really can't wait for the tides to turn when it's an employee's market again.So sad.I'm the type of person who will write letters and complain. I've always been that way about things that rile me up. I'll write CEOs, our elected officials, the President... I'll direct them to this website.In fact, I already wrote some letters earlier last year when I discovered the job situation and how widespread and rotten it was.I'm just waiting to see a glimmer of hope this year.I just don't see how the situation can continue on like this. Something will have to be done or society will completely go down to the lowest depths. This is hitting a wide variety of folks, not just the poor and uneducated.It will continue until it hits enough people who are now comfortable. Like those parents who ridicule the young kids who are on this forum fresh fromcollege?with high expectations and their treasured degree. When those parents lose a job and try to find something comfortable in their middle (and old) age is when the tide might turn and people will start voting differently. I find when people are comfortable, they don't much care about those who aren't. The illustrious governor of my state, who was elected by 48% of the clueless, is proposing dropping the income tax. Yay everybody says. BUT..he wants to make it up by taxing certain NON PROFITS, like hospitals. The?hospital?system I now work for provides free care for people who can't afford it and this clown wants to take the approach of taxing the hospital system to make up for lack of personal income tax. People don't think any further than their nose reaches, and they actually follow nutbags like this. We need a better class of people in?government?who actually want to make improvements for EVERYBODY. Then maybe we will see some improvement.Most Hospitals still make a lot though of $$$$. If their prices come more into line then reward them with lower taxes. Hospitals many claim to be non profit but rack in $$$$. It's insane how much medical care cost at hospitals and what they charge?insurance?companies and consumers.Yes it it, but some of them, like mine, just BREAK EVEN taking care of so many people for free, and not collecting what the insurance companies don't pay. If a non profit makes too much of a profit too often, they lose their status. I agree that elite for-profit hospitals should pay taxes like anybusiness, but poor people have been shoved down far enough, and taxing a decent not profit that is treating people for free will put those people out of?healthcare?entirely. Stupid policy from a stupid ass clown.Most Hospitals still make a lot though of $$$$. If their prices come more into line then reward them with lower taxes. Hospitals many claim to be non profit but rack in $$$$. It's insane how much medical care cost at hospitals and what they charge?insurance?companies and consumers.I might be wrong, but I think the nonprofit vs profit is just a tax status.?You can have nonprofit hospitals with very well compensated executives.?But as far as reimbursements, most are getting very little now from insurance and govt/Medicare/Obamacare.?It's causing more hospitals to merge.?You know, all that free?healthcare.My niece is a medical biller. She says every Band-Aid is eventually paid for. Maybe not by you but by someone.Yes, the ten-dollar bandaid is real.?Someone else is paying for someone else to have a baby or walk into an ER.?Everything costs money.?Over 70 hospitals closed in the state of California because of all of the free care given.I might be wrong, but I think the nonprofit vs profit is just a tax status.?You can have nonprofit hospitals with very well compensated executives.?But as far as reimbursements, most are getting very little now from?insurance?and govt/Medicare/Obamacare.?It's causing more hospitals to merge.?You know, all that free?healthcare.I guess if you have no job and no home, and a serious illness you don't think too much about how much the?executive?of the non-profit?hospital?you are getting free care from makes. I know I wouldn't.But the problem isn't the person who cannot afford?healthcare?who has the rare instance of having to go to the ER. It's a continual misuse of the ER like it's some free clinic.Unfortunately the person who cannot afford?healthcare?needing an ER visit is NOT a "rare instance".There are massive amounts of people who continually hit up ERs for nonemergent or non trauma issues.?I'm not talking about the guy who lost his?health?insurance?and is having chest pains. Or the person who cut themselves and it won't stop bleeding.The misuse of the ER is causing?health care?costs to increase constantly.This country will get to the point where it can no longer give out free services to everyone who wants them. There are less and less jobs and less taxes being paid into the system.ER's are triaged, if you're sitting there with a runny nose, you will likely have to wait so long that you'll give up and leave. Our?hospital?system HAS a free clinic and several walk-in satellites that are well used so that the ER's are free for emergencies.Good for you, but there are parts of the country where hospitals are closing because they cannot handle the continual barrage of nonpaying patients.The money has to come from somewhere.There is no such thing as free.And my sister broke her left femur, had no?health?insurance?(no Obamacare then) and had to declare bankruptcy. They charged off 50K but the?hospital?didn't charge that off - they "cost shifted" it. Every Band-Aid is eventually paid for.My sister walks with a cane to this day.Yes, it depends on who you are, and if they think they can get money out of you.Good for you, but there are parts of the country where hospitals are closing because they cannot handle the continual barrage of nonpaying patients.The money has to come from somewhere.There is no such thing as free.Not if your pharmaceuticals/healthcare?providers or?hospital?parent corporations are trading on a stock exchange. Aetna, Cigna, Humana, etc., had combined (non) profits of over 11 billion last year. Don't drink the Kool-Aid.I might be wrong, but I think the nonprofit vs profit is just a tax status.?You can have nonprofit hospitals with very well compensated executives.?But as far as reimbursements, most are getting very little now from?insurance?and govt/Medicare/Obamacare.?It's causing more hospitals to merge.?You know, all that free?healthcare.Yea it's mostly for taxes. The NFL has non profit for tax reasons but look at all the money the NFL makes. Do they really need a tax break?You hear all the time about how much these "executives" at non profilt orgs make?bank.If there are tons of people NOT paying for their?healthcare, and mind you, this can run into thousands of dollars for a procedure, WHO is going to pay for it? You can't have it both ways. You can't say people get free, but thebusiness?has to eat the cost.People think there is really such a thing as free. It's this mindset that everyone else should pay.Do they order their supplies from big companies like OfficeMax/Depot or Staples? They have been caught many times way over charging large companies and?government?agencies for supplies. A lot of large companies don't pay attention to cost and what their vendors charge for stuff like this.But that's not what?healthcare?is doing. They have to give out so much in free healthcare to those who don't pay. That's big bucks.Either they don't do it, or someone else has to pay, and all these people want to have "Free."Dog with a bone, dude.You want your cake and eat it too. It's okay when everyone else has to pay for it. That's why this nation is in the shape it is.There are MANY reasons why this nation is in the shape that it is. You can't punish the people who are at least TRYING to alleviate suffering for a whole corrupt system.What people??What people are trying to alleviate suffering??You mean Obamacare? OMGYou think certain people are entitled to free, when others aren't??Who is being punished??Certainly not the people getting the free goodies.The people who are working and paying taxes, or paying out of their pockets are being scalped.The?healthcare?workers are making less and less to help cover all of this too.So who is hurting? Certainly not the people getting the free stuff.Eventually all of this will implode, because there is no way, with all of the people out of work or underpaid, that the tax system can support giving away millions even billions of free?healthcare,?college,?food?stamps, etc., forever.The charity care system was not invented to help out millions of people. It was invented to help the truly indigent, the truly poor, the people who had paid into the system but can no longer pay.It's truly being abused.What people??What people are trying to alleviate suffering??You mean Obamacare? OMGI tried getting free?health?insurance?(since I have no job and no unemployment!) and my quotes were 300$/mo and I have no job which makes no sense, soooo. When I still had insurance, my premiums and copays went up and I bluntly asked if it was because of Obamacare and they said no, but the physician rolled his eyes and made a motion as if non-verbally acknowledging the fact that it was. I think they were trained to say Obamacare isn't the reason.Such a broken system. Obamacare is a JOOOKE.Same deal for me. They go by what you made last year or what you predict you'll make for the following year and if you underestimate, you have to pay money back. But for the 300-400 a month, you get virtually NOTHING. You have to pay the first 6600 out of pocket first. How's that for all the freehealthcare?people are talking about?Not Obamacare, I think everybody agrees on THAT!. I'm talking about surgeons who have taken a huge pay cut (I know, still doing fine) to come to the organizations who offer free care. They're on salary now, no longer interested in if or not they are making a profit. THOSE people. Geez, X, I wish you could get a job getting paid by for being fixated. Like the talking heads on Fox, like Limbaugh, Hannity. If you could get paid by the 'fixated hour' you'd be rich in no time.Glad you get it.?Well, surgeons aren't near what the big shots are making...I wouldn't want a doc working on me who wasn't well compensated. Their training takes a lot of?intelligence?and hard work.No one really cares right now.?Right now, if people have a job, can go to the sports bar and chug down beers or take a 6 pack home every night and watch bad TV, they are complacent.aIt's sad things will have to get worse before they get better.I think a lot of us that are unemployed are the canaries in the coal mine.I don't think I am fixated, I just know what is going on, and heck, I care. This is/was/should be the greatest nation in the world, and it's being ruined by those who don't care.And every couple of years, I realize we've elected them, for want of a better choice.Same deal for me. They go by what you made last year or what you predict you'll make for the following year and if you underestimate, you have to pay money back. But for the 300-400 a month, you get virtually NOTHING. You have to pay the first 6600 out of pocket first. How's that for all the free?healthcare?people are talking about?Mine is about $500 a month my parents pay because I need it. The last couple of years it keeps increasing higher and higher because of the Unaffordable Healthcare act. IMO the?insurance?companies wanted Obamacare as well and that's why you don't see too my fighting it. If the insurance companies didn't want it they would have been fighting against it and it wouldn't have passed and Republicans would be doing more to stop it unlike this half arsed attempts they make.I don't see the ACA really every going away.I never thought I'd be inclined to wish for a Republican?admin?and legislature, but just MAYBE, if they were not nutcase teabaggers and a tad more toward the middle, maybe ACA could be tweaked, at least. POTUS's ego doesn't seen to allow for any tweaking of his pet "prize'.I hope they get rid of Obamacare as soon as the new president takes over.I can't afford it. I'm on medical direct and that keeps getting cancelled every month and is holding up my MRI from getting approved so I can move forward with my needed knee surgery. So everything is at a stand still, it just sucks.?Makes me wish I was from a foreign country so I could take advantage of the medical system and get everything done all at once and have it done and over with already, at this rate by the time I get the approval for the MRI and surgery scheduled it will be 2016. :(People still think it's "Dems vs Republicans".?If you notice, the Republicans scold the Democrats and vice versa, but no one really does a thing for the regular American citizen. Just special interests.Voting doesn't matter anymore. You don't get to vote for someone who can really affect things. They aren't going to be allowed into the system.Medicaid is now passed onto the backs of the Middle Class ad nauseum.?Most people won't pay 6600 or whatever your deductible is, for the year. Not unless you get sick every day or have an operation or expensive procedures.We are paying for everyone else.If you don't sign up for it, they tax you and increase the penalty every year.THey are going to get the money out of us one way or another.What happened to the Constitution?See, you are paying more and getting less.?But people come to the US every year, illegally, and I will tell you, they get that MR done. They get a ton of free medical care you and I don't get.I totally agree!?When I was working at a home?health care?company back in the 90's one of the nurses who was married to a doctor, brought her Armenian mother for a hip replacement. She would joke how it was free for her mothers surgery. WTH ??????I was pissed, and as soon as her mother was feeling better, they'd fight her back to whatever country she was from first class. Just sickening! Speaking of birthdays, anybody notice this forum is about to turn 5 years old? Yup economy is improving all right! LOL.I stopped looking for a job for a while...I just started looking again tonight. (I won't go into details as to why I stopped).?I just saw a ridiculous post for a job- it said "Must have majored in?collegein x, y, or z"... as if no one else could possibly be qualified? Total crap. As if no one could possibly be qualified after making a decision on a college major at 19 (or whenever), and then acquired relevant experience??Rolling my eyes, shaking my head.My dad suggest I learn more about computers and try to get certifications like Microsoft certified and work on people's computers and consult.My dad started doing that about 15 years ago before his stroke and charged people $75-100 an hour to consult with them, fix issues, and go shopping with them for computers. Many people he worked with at Sony had their own?business?on the side and charged about 100 an hour to fix people's computers.It's a lot cheaper than going back to school for a masters and spending another 50k.I totally agree!?When I was working at a home?health care?company back in the 90's one of the nurses who was married to a doctor, brought her Armenian mother for a hip replacement. She would joke how it was free for her mothers surgery. WTH ??????I was pissed, and as soon as her mother was feeling better, they'd fight her back to whatever country she was from first class. Just sickening!I am sick to death of people, like this nurse, who brag.?Have you noticed how commonplace it is for people to brag about their possessions, situations, etc.??They brag about how they and their SO do this or that every week, or are buying a home, or a second home, or their new cars.?This nurse you mentioned...people like that like to show how they are so privileged, how they get something others don't. It's not even done in a sort of gratitude way, it's not even like they are "whew! glad we had that covered" thing. They just want others to know how "special" they are.I am just tired of it. It's everywhere you go, including the workplace.So assuming her husband did the procedure, the?hospital?picked up the tab for the equipment, nurses, and other supplies used for this surgery??? Probably got stuck to the taxpayer somehow I'm sure since she's from another country!I know. Like I said these kind of places want young women promoting their firm because of the hip and looks reasons rather than a man. That's why I didn't pick?advertising?or marketing or PR as my major because it's made up mostly of all women. I hardly have ever seen a man working in marketing or PR. Non profits are the worse though from what I seen on LinkedIn when it comes to this. I guess it's the more "caring" aspect of it having a young woman promoting the non profit than a man wearing a suit and looks wealthy.I find a lot of women are only caring about themselves.Someone I know told me today on the phone that they heard on the news that the economy improved and the job market is better.?I'd like to see the news relate actual companies?hiring?and what jobs and if they are livable wage jobs or not. Other than that, it's all BS.Agree. They say that but I see a lot LESS jobs posted the last few weeks. I check Craigslist and indeed, simply hired, Monster and I see less. I mean all jobs in?general?like full-time and part-time.Yep, and you wonder how many of those jobs have benefits. They probably think we can all just buy our own?insurance?with the govt now.Lets see what Obozo says tonight about the great economy.Why do I see a lot of Texas people on here? I thought the economy was great there too. Then I saw that NY times map of unemployed men and it looks pretty bad in TX too for men.I heard from someone that there is a great economy in the Dakotas.?But if you look it's just an oil boom.?You have to work outside in horrid conditions, and not everyone can do that work.?I read some things are pretty jacked up in price there too, to take advantage of what people make.The worst places to live are tourist states.?There are SO MANY rich people.?They don't know what to do with their money and it's funny how businesses are trying to get their money!?I'd say most of these people are lucky. They weren't all smart entrepreneurs or scientists.?Government?pensions seem to be very popular. Or inheriting trust funds.?They think everyone who works is their slave.Look at public employees in the state of California and the great big pensions they get when they retire.NBC nightly news is on right now saying the economy is strong thanks to Obama. They had a family on there who will be at the State of the Union who wrote Obama. They lost both their jobs,?health?insurance?and home, and now both have jobs and are covered by using Obozocare and sending a child to?community?college. They also talk about Obama's disaster of a plan to pay for community college.Associates degrees are more useless than bachelors degrees as now you need a masters degree. So we will have even more graduates with Associates Degrees that wont get you a good job while wasting more money.Just more ways for people to get locked into student loans.?They wouldn't be doing this if it didn't make the govt money.The news is just propaganda now.School is a waste now unless you're a laywer, doctor, or?accountant. Even getting a masters degree is useless unless you're a teacher. It's still nearly impossible to get a job with a masters or MBA right now.And a lot of?computer?type jobs you don't need a degree, just certifications and knowledge.Even if the economy improves people like me out of work for so long and poor work history are still doomed. I've decided to remove myself from the BS and say hell with it. I will have to think of a?business?to start on my own.I'm not playing the game anymore working low pay jobs and treated like garbage and I don't know anyone or have any connections to get me a good job.The whole "Free?Community?College" deal is to keep certain people off the streets and out of crime.?Everyone knows the problem isn't?education; it's lack of jobs.If there were plenty of jobs and less people, employers would send people for training or education.This business that we need a surplus of educated people for very few jobs is just ridiculous.I know what you mean about the stupid low wage jobs.?I think every day about starting a business.Yea it's aimed for the low income. Associates degrees are useless. I hope they have a better way of distributing the funds. What a lot of these people will do is when they get the money for class they will end up dropping the classes and pocketing that money like they do with student loans and grants.Also Obama and most politicians are wealthy. Before Obama got into politics he was a lawyer making decent money. Before Obama became president Michelle worked for a?hospital?in Chicago I recall making close to $200,000 a year and she was only working 20 hours a week!! Yea the Obama's were like all the other little people.People like Obama are not affected by the economy. Regardless of what happens Obama still gets a BIG paycheck each year plus?food?andhealthcare?all paid for including expensive vacations. Obama was never affected by this depression.Same as most of the senators and representatives. They're not affected by the economy because most are multi million or billionaires already and get free healthcare.Our elected representatives do not represent us.We have too few livable wage jobs, too many people, too many more people being imported into this country, too many?college?educated people, too many schools saturating already saturated fields, jobs going overseas, increasing inflation, and a?government?who tells us everything is just great.Working age MEN have been hurt the most during this. Here is another quote but I think they got this from the NY times article. Since men don't get "protect class" status unless they're some kind of minority. Companies can't?fire?a minority as easy due to affirmative action so men will always be the target.Men are hurting more than women. For men in the prime of their working lives (ages 25-54), more than one in six don’t have a job. And when it was time to make cuts during the recession, men were the primary targets. In fact, the male-to-female job loss ratio was2.6 to 1.Makes it hard for men to be the breadwinners.I have seen women who take jobs, then take off constantly for every little thing. They use their kids as an excuse. "She has ballet practice today, I have to leave at 3pm." And guess who has to do her work??They really believe they are entitled to be treated differently, because they say they care about their kids. No one is telling them not to care about their kids, but they should keep their personal lives at home. Either they can be there to do the job or they can't. They usually find a boss who is sympathetic to the whole "have kids" thing and they get their way.?Those are the same ones who want a career, by the way.Because they're afraid they will sue if they don't cave in so they let them take off work without getting in trouble. But yet these same young women get jobs very easily when they graduate?college?despite if you go on LinkedIn and see all the BS jobs and job bouncing they do they still get good jobs. Why is it I don't see nearly as many men on LinkedIn? I see that every day, the 'my kids thing'. My coworker sits down with the boss and a calendar at the beginning of the year and they go over the days she'll need off. It's her paid time, I guess, but I hear how it's impossible to be a mom and work too..waaaahh. I did it, I worked SHIFT work and their father worked days. You say 'shift work' to a young mom these days and it's like holy water on a vampire. They'll pay hundreds of dollars a week for somebody to watch their kids after school and in the summer, but are WAY too special to work an off shift so the kid can always have a parent at home. It's like a foreign concept.Obama right now saying the economy is growing at an unbelievable rate and creating jobs at a rate not seen since 1999! He really is laying into how great the last year has been for jobs and the economy.I have seen the same. They give the boss a chopped up thing of availability. It's all pretend emergencies and such too. It's not taking off because the kid has pneumonia. It's every school function, lesson, etc. One woman took off a whole day for her kid's birthday party.?My complaint is that they accept a?full time?job. They want all the perks that go with it, but then complain they have to have this day or that one off.?Another thing they do, to help hide the rampant abuse of time-off...they ask you if you will cover for them, then they send a letter to the bosses saying they are working for you on this date and you are working for them on another date, so there is a guess who is the one really taking off. I've seen this so many places.?I got to where I refused to cover for them. Teamwork? If they can't own up and say they are taking off and asking someone to cover for them, I am not going to be part of their little game that makes me look bad.If they an afford to take off so much, they must not really need their job. I don't want to hear about how important their kid is. It's like telling me my life isn't as important, and I think the bosses who have the nerve to tell me that "she has kids!" can go blow too.I knew this was on tv but did not watch on purpose.?like gag me w a spoon...I was forced into retirement at age 40 with limited resources and things will not end well for me even if I manage to stretch out my savings to age 50, then WHAT? I seldom find even an office?clerk?job I can apply for and have not had an interview since Feb. 2013. After 6 yrs the likelihood I will be working in this life again is realistically ZERO. I knew the SOTU would just depress and agitate me, will not even read about it online, no pt. MY World appears VERY different than the opportunities available to everyone else. I never liked Obama to begin w and now cannot stand to see him talk about how wonderful life is. These speeches always make me feel like everyone ELSE is successful and doing great but me...Obama would say get a job in retail or low end service and consider that job growth.Maybe for women and minorities there are job growth but not us men. Even the liberal New York Times points that out as just about every county in the nation has at least 15 percent unemployment for men.Obama right now saying the economy is growing at an unbelievable rate and creating jobs at a rate not seen since 1999! He really is laying into how great the last year has been for jobs and the economy.The economy has not improved! I have seen two or three jobs reposted from LAST FALL today that I interviewed on already.Just did another interview today. I got the same 'of course we have to interview other candidates, it's a process' so the job search has not changed. Still the same long process that has more brick-wall potential than earnings potential.True. The only luck I get job offers is in retail. The one I turned down because it was near min wage and I'd be working part-time but at least 5 days a week.I had Lowes contact me for head?cashier?late last year but I read the reviews for it and they're horrific and want open availability. I worked atHome Depot?and they did the same thing work you odd hours and have you close and open the next day a lot.I'm done with low paying retail work. I hate retail and you're a slave to them.My partner and I did the same - he was a writer so he did/prefered the 6pm to 2am shift. I must admit it was hellish, though and I doubt many people could pull that off for any length of time. I was lucky in that I had twins, so working different shifts was only essential for about 4 years.I'd be willing to bet your kids are a cut above, too. I know mine are, and I believe it has something to do with being raised by parents, as opposed today care?workers.Oh my goodness, I'd hinge the fact that everyone in the world is so f-ed up these days on that very fact.And yeah, I have amazing kids.My life was difficult because I had to get up at 6 am for work and stay up and keep the kids up past midnight, so they would sleep late enough so their dad would get some sleep. But on the positive side, that meant both of us had almost an entire 8 hour day with the kids, every day. My partner was a stay at home writer. He would bring with them to the post office,library, on interviews, etc.I just don't know how someone could dump a baby at?daycare?and then pick it up at the end of the day, having to put it to bed pretty much right after dinner because a little tyke needs to sleep 12 hours. That leaves a mother and father like two hours a day with her kid during the extraordinarily, heavy duty period of personality formation, and masge physiological changes in the brain.I understand from a?financial?perspective becuase it's extremely expensive to afford a house and a family, but I think sinkng wages have put families in a bad position and society is suffering greatly for it.I agree.?Children?should be raised at home.?It's enough when they have to go to forced schooling.I remember seeing kids that had to go to daycare, and in the summer, it's like they aren't even off school. It's still up quite early, still on the parents' work schedule, then off to?day care?for planned structured activities all day, then picked up at 6pm. Then to bed early again.I knew someone who put her kid in a?daycare. One night, her husband picked up her son. When he got in the car, he started to cry uncontrollably.?When he calmed down, he asked the dad if they could stop at a bathroom.?He told the father that they had to take naps in the afternoon, and was not allowed to use the bathroom first, but was told he must sleep. He said he couldn't sleep. He said he was told that he did not need to use the bathroom.?How crazy, a kid knows when he needs to use the bathroom.Besides, daycare costs a FORTUNE! I've noticed some of the smarter ones opting for one stay-at-home, because it costs too much, and find Definitely. That's aanother reason I feel like I lucked out on the family front. When I got pregnant, I only planned to have one. I knew I could only afford one kid, but I ended up with twins. We were lucky that we were able to pull off the opposite parent work schedule shift thing. I never would have been able to do daycare for two.ing it's a better quality of life for the kids.where are all the older workers now? every interview i go on everyone is in their 30's. I think the age thing is starting to hurt my chances a bit.I'm telling ya, I believe it has to do with money. I've seen employers "turn on" employees when they start using their medical benefits or getting expensive procedures done. And when they are getting close to retirement, employers try to force them out early.Yes! Happened to 2 of my friends. One was talking about for months about retiring and she then she made some mistake and they fired her and all the staff knew it was about money, they just used the mistake as something to hide behind. Another friend Went out the same way.Where I'm working now everyone is old, over 40 except for the little?collegeage part time messenger clerks they have and they must go throught them like skittles. Not shocked.I'm pulling for BOTH you guys, Leann and Shingami. I was lucky and had WEEKS of training, and it was still hard when I finally got thrown into the thick of it. Reading stuff on this forum, I see that training pretty much sucks everywhere. Hang in, you guys!!Thanks girl, I'm hangin! And yes, training sucks everywhere. That's why we see so much of that "Hit the ground running" crap everywhere, even though the reality is that no one ever will have a first day on the job working like they've been there 10 years but it's always expected. Then they want to?fire?you if you're slow or mess up, which puts more pressure and anxiety on the worker. It's just a mess all around and I'm sick of it all.Hi,I am looking for a job in California for the last 6 months.I did masters from India but just than moved to US.I don't have any experience apart from what I have done during?Internship.?No one in US entertains fresh graduate from India.All of them need experience.I am so confused what else should I do to get the job.Despite of having valid work visa I am unable to find suitable job based on the?education.Can anyone suggest me what is the alternative of experience in USA?ThanksThere are no jobs here. Americans cannot get jobs.Most will be working well into their 70's.Social Security will run out and pensions aren't a guaranteed thing any longer.Throw in the fact that companies lay off like crazy today anyone making good money.65 - and the horizon came and went. I don't see an end to working without a lottery winning.You and me both.?I've spent my savings moving to different states to stay employed and using the money to live off when unemployed.?Yet, I see all of these people who are retired, some as young as 40, and how do they do it?Even if someone gets SS, it's not enough to really live off unless they have another income earner in the home.Most will be working well into their 70's.Social Security will run out and pensions aren't a guaranteed thing any longer.Throw in the fact that companies lay off like crazy today anyone making good money.But's that's the big irony.There are SO MANY retired people now.Many are not over 65.?I talked to a guy the other day, he was 50, retired. Not a care in the world.?Planning his next vacation. All he does is go to casinos, bars, movies, looks for a motorhome to buy.?When you try to find out how they did it, how they are able to just stop working, it's never a clear answer.But there are so many of these people. So many of them are able to stop.It's like a slave vs master state.If you get 500 a month on SS, or even 1000, its not enough.?Not unless you live with someone else.It's just too dangerous to bring a stranger into the house.?You would have to lock up your important and personal things all of the time.?Then it's their friends coming over...etc.I did a lot of research on it a while back. Median temp is 80 degrees. My cousin in importing trinkets to tourist traps says every day or so, it rains for 20 minutes and then the sun comes out. It's never nasty and humid. And there are groups of X-pats who help you acclimate. The locals are kind of particular that you speak their language correctly and will actually help you. The?government?likes you to poop or get off the pot, so to speak, after 90 days, like become a citizen and pay taxes or go home. Tax structure is decent, next to nothing for the everyday people, big for successfulbusiness. Just disposing of everything I own and relocating thousands of miles away, well, I get exhausted thinking about it.That would be my problem too. It would cost so much to replace what I have.?If I had known things were going to wind up like this, I would have left the US when I was young.?Just a backpack.?I should have never climbed on board the US job train.?Yet, even people I know who didn't work hard or even break a sweat are doing pretty well.?It's really about luck.?You can work hard or make the right choices but without luck, it goes nowhere.If you want to retire young probably the?government?or the military is the best option. Imagine going in the military at 20 and staying in until you're 45. If you save your money right and such you can retire and never work again in your life with the pension. My cousin is about 23 and wants to make a career of the Navy. He is 8 years younger than me and if he makes it a career he will be retired while I'm still working for many more years.I had a management teacher in?college?a couple years ago retired as somedistrict manager?from the IRS and gets close to $100,000 a year in pension and has been retired for awhile and just teaches a couple night classes to stay busy and make a few extra dollars. Golfs all the time, and comes into class wearing $400 jackets and that.I know a lot of people won't like me saying this, but teaching, government workers, and politicians, are the most overly compensated professions.Time to remove the sainthood haloes off those professions.Why should we have to support them from the age of say, 40, until they die, say 80? They get pensions and free?healthcare, which those of us in private industry do not. And, don't say you had the opportunity to go into them...I don't know anyone who used to pick a profession for just the benefits!As far as the military goes, I think they should be well-compensated for the work they do. That's a big exception to the whole government worker thing.It's a relative term. They aren't "over compensated". Their pay simply increased with inflation and the cost of living, because they have had someone to fight for it. They are earning exactly what they should be earning. Why throw them under the bus when it has been the 1% (of which the Military?Industrial?complex is a part) sucking the money out of the system at the expense of the Middle class? The oligarchy will be happy to hear us peons quarreling with one another, though.They'll keep paying the politicians to rework the laws so their coffers grow while we point the finger at each other. It's obvious if you see the reconfiguartion of the bell curve ineconomics. The very bottom is looooooooog and very flat. Comparitively speaking, the difference between the low and middle is miniscule when compared to towering height of the top earners.Those of us in private industry do not get pensions. We don't taken care of like that.?Most of us do not have the ability to retire at a younger age.?The money is coming from our taxes, where everything comes from.I was just adding what you were saying to her. Convo style, y'dig? And I also agree with that other statement you made. I read somewhere that young people will not be retiring as early, as social security is dwindling because not enough people are putting into it, and the baby boomers are starting to retire, which is creating a huge gap. Also, young people are not feeling as secure so they'll be working later because of this. A third point they made was people are living longer, so retiring earlier makes less sense.Like me and someone else here were saying a few days ago. A lot of people my age or even younger are losing their parents and are coming into sudden money because of it.One of my friends is a professional, along with her hubby. Together, they'll never be homeless, but because of some bad investments and this recession, they lost a lot. Her parents are very old and frail now, and it's not nice to think about, but when they pass away, my friend's money troubles will likely go completely end. Her father was a successful businessman and he and his wife have a nice home that's paid for. My friend only has a brother, who is a successful professional. And my friend's husband's dad is also very old and frail. He was also a professional. Either way, my friend is going to come into some big money soon enough.You are seeing the greatest transfer of wealth in US history. That's the good news. The bad news is that this is it. According to many economists, the Doomsday?Financial?Tidal Wave will hit in about 20 years. That is when the inherited wealth will supposedly run out.Social Security will be broke within 20 years unless something changes. The fact is indisputable. Fewer people are paying into it and at lesser amounts. You also have a surge of people opting for early Social Security at 62 or the Smith & Wesson retirement plan, even earlier.Surely the?government(s) know this, and yet they do nothing about it? Or are they waiting for panic to break out and then they'll do what they're best at, which is taking control from the ignorant masses when they have lost all power, and showcasing the reason why they exist and reinforcing said reason?Sheesh.Currently, the government is doing something about it: they are printing money at a furious rate.Actually, Social Security has 33 years left. Before that time, I think there will need to be some re-tooling. Like very rich people not being able to claim it maybe? Or the stupid rule when you make over a certain huge amount a year, they stop taking it out of your pay.Why throw them under the bus when it has been the 1% (of which the Military?Industrial?complex is a part) sucking the money out of the system at the expense of the Middle class? The oligarchy will be happy to hear us peons quarreling with one another, though.I have to agree with your post. When society goes through crises, it seems that many people turn against one another. During better times, nobody seems to care much about what other people have or do, because they know they can have it as well if they put forth the effort.I'm speaking for myself. I am not a top earning type of individual, but I also don't think I'm the right fit for 7-Eleven. Thankfully, I have a few skills that employers seemed to want. I won't say where, but I worked for the?federal government?before and it was the best job for me. My co-workers were decent, hardworking people. We worked our tails off, but it was enjoyable.Some people don't go for fed govt work, because they can't pass the background checks. Many people wish they could get a govt job. My neighbor worked for the county and she was resentful when I got in with the feds. But she was not a nice woman and her husband (also a county worker) was selling marijuana.There are always exceptions but I also think the feds don't tolerate a lot of stuff the private sector does.In the private sector, I've witnessed A LOT of sexual harassment. Also, one company I worked for "went under" because many of the young, beautiful, stylish people they hired were using drugs (cocaine) on the premises. This was a high-class area close to the beach. Unbelievable!The private companies and their bosses are to blame for such nonsense going on.Another point is that with the war and recession, a lot of?federal?govt workers lost their jobs. They got laid off and many of the positions were discontinued. They had entered the govt believing that once they got in, they would stay in and reap all the benefits... almost like how many?collegegrads thought their degrees guaranteed them a better life.It has been a painful pill to swallow for all kinds of people.I don't want?government?people to lose their jobs. But I do agree that the government really needs to stop the waste. I liked the govt, but I know they wasted money, and that's not fair because it does come from everybody else.When you look at some individual govt jobs, they provide a great service to the public. We can't lump all?federal?govt jobs together and demonize them and say the workers are lazy, etc.What I'm saying is the private sector could have higher standards for their workers if they wanted to. People who start businesses, etc, do not have to go down the slippery slope.To some extent that is true. The problem is that the private sector has competition and that creates some unwanted market forces like greed and avarice. The?government?as a rule has no competition. How many police departments do you have in your town? Without competitors and with sufficient resources, there is little need to develop fangs.I hear what you're saying Ruby, but there are people who have integrity and good character and they start businesses without resorting to those unsavory tactics. They may not be perfect in everything, but you're going to see employees going to the bathroom every few minutes to snort cocaine. They want a good?business, to they have decent standards and they treat their employees well, knowing good results will follow in return.It's almost like a bad?church. The leadership is important. When you have bad leadership in a church, it trickles down into the congregation and before you know it, people are into all the wrong things.You are seeing the greatest transfer of wealth in US history. That's the good news. The bad news is that this is it. According to many economists, the Doomsday?Financial?Tidal Wave will hit in about 20 years. That is when the inherited wealth will supposedly run out.That is so scary, but as a?Christian, I believe that sooner or later, society is going down. The value of money will be greatly diminished.One reason why I didn't have?children?is because I didn't want to go to my deathbed worrying about their lives here. I really hope I don't have to live through what's coming.The?Federal government?(public sector) could not exist without the private sector - it doesn't sell anything.My neighbor's son is an Air Force fighter pilot. Every time he takes up an F-18, even for training, it costs $30,000. Where does that money come from?Yes, and right now, the?government?jobs have increased while the private have decreased or have low wages... So that's more taxes going to pay their wages.?Some fed jobs are like a form of welfare. People get in and get taken care of with the govt for doing a little work.That's true... "some" govt jobs, but certainly not all. It was not the case with my?federal?job. We worked busy and hard, and because the work environment was better than I've ever had it, I really wanted to go to work every day.Like I said, some private bosses and businesses could take better care of their employees, but they are greedy and want to. That's their fault. Some of those CEOs and presidents are living very lavish lifestyles.When the federal starts?hiring, raising wages and stopping their pay freezes, the private sector will not be far behind.Right now, I have hope that this year will see some big improvements. But if we somehow go to war again, all bets are off.CEOs are like modern kings and this has been going on since the beginning of time.The problem currently is there are too many people and not enough jobs, so it's near impossible to find the kind of job at the kind of pay you want.The private sector isn't going to hire unless the feds buy their stuff. Even then, companies try to do without hiring more people. It's not some kind of fairy dust they spread around.Married people may have it easier in that way, but that's how life is. We're not all on equal footing. I don't think single people shouldn't compare themselves to marrieds. Our lifestyles are so different.But now you're back to what individuals cherish in life.I'm basically simple and I'm odd anyway.Many people love fun and excitement. They want all they can get right now. They believe this life is all you get, so, when they want to buy a nice house and fancy car or shop til they drop or whatever, who am I to tell them they are wrong for wanting those things?I believe it will hurt just about anyone when they have something and it gets taken away. Most of us are used to a certain standard. It may take a lot of instrospective thinking to where you realize, "Hey, I can live without that."I wish I could always live in a house--just a house. I HATE apartments. But someone is going to tell me an?apartment?is just fine. If I have to go to an apartment, I will, but I'll fight against it for sure.My friend can downsize, but they have a beautiful home in an exclusive neighborhood. They have memories of raising their?children?there, etc. They would not choose to just give it up, so they're working hard to keep it.I've never lived in a house and would LOVE to someday. I always envied my friends and family who live in a house. When I was younger I especially loved the idea of going 'upstairs' lol. Goofy, I know, but I always wanted that. I live in a very nice?apartment?so I don't mind it. But it would totally suck to go from apartment to house and back to apartment I'm sure. Definitely better to not know what you are missing.I"m also don't need much to be happy. I think that is what makes me so frustrated sometimes. I'm not asking for much, just a tolerable job at even 35k a year and I can't even get that and that aint' nothing! I don't NEED a vacation every year and a $50,000 car. I've only ever been to NYC, California and Florida. And those were just weekends. I want to go to?Disney?World and it would be nice to not feel bankrupt if I go or have to save 11 years just for a Disney World vacation, not like I'm trying to spend a year in Italy.You know what's cool??You would appreciate the small stuff so much, and in that, you'd get some happiness.?I know when I can have some things that others take for granted, I am elated.People who always have --don't know what it's like to not have, so they can't get this.It's NOT "always an option", even for some who DO desire it. I know the bible told you we all should be hooked up, but, like a lot of hogwash in the bible, not realistic, especially with women outnumbering men 2 to 1 or something ridiculous like that. Maybe if you religious girls want to really lower your standards, it might be an option, I guess, though.The bible does not say marriage is for all. In fact, there is good, extensive teaching on remaining single and why it is also a good option. That's the option I've chosen for myself. But it states that not all Christians can be single successfully because of our physical urges (burn in lust, etc.) It says to marry if you can't stay celibate. Let's face it, most people can't do it.The bible also says (and I totally believe it just from my life's experiences) that it's not good when people are alone. We shouldn't totally isolate ourselves. I think God is telling us that he created us to connect with other people. It's something he placed in us. We are social creatures. The problem is finding other people we can connect with. That's the headache.I think that we all have to have someone--a spouse, family, friends,children. That interaction is important.People (I think men are worse for this) become total loners and often end up doing detrimental things. They sink into deep depression, tend to drink, drug, and do other unhealthy behaviors more often.?I went back to school and in 2012 received an AA in Web?Design. Next month I'll complete my BS/IT in Multimedia & Visual?Communication. I know programming, web design anddevelopment, project management, and several Adobe?Creative?Suite applications. All through my?education?I have maintained over a 3.0 GPA, and I have been searching for jobs with my new degrees and skills. I have one pro bono web redesign for a small, legitimate nonprofit, and a few for small businesses. I have the skills. I am also retired and 62-years old. I read somewhere that it is difficult for older, skilled workers to find jobs because "no one wants to be working next to their mom or dad." Whatever happened to the ability to do the work and do it well? Frustrating!I have more education than you.?The reason people aren't finding jobs isn't a lack of education, skills, or experience.?It's the lack of jobs.So you "work" pro bono, which means you don't get paid, which ruins it for all of the people who need to work. This is just a hobby for you, as you say, you are retired. Let a person who needs to work have the job and get paid.?Also, working free lowers wages for others.So has this god given you a job yet?God has given me a lot of jobs throughout my life. I know it wasn't me who did it.Something is "stirring" in my life at this very moment and it honestly feels like I'm getting ready to get set up for just that--a job. A good job.Mother F - I am so tired of applying to jobs only to be escorted to a GD personality assessment! Stop?hiring?based on the perfect social butterfly! I swear I've gotten 1000 emails stating the same dang BS: "I'm sorry but we have reviewed your application (what they mean is personality test) and have decided to move on with other candidates" F - that BS! I shouldn't need a personality test to indicate whether I'm better at flipping fricken burgers or operating a darn cash register! Or .... I have an interview and low-and-behold I'm passed up because they hired a drug dealer because he/she has better sales/social techniques! How is it businesses for years and years didn't use the internet and?HRIS?programs to weed people out during?hiringand they did just fine. Why the last 10 year or so HRIS software is used by most companies?How did businesses operate just fine without it?I don't know if it's more people seeking work or companies just got lazier and more picky or all three. And the majority of people don't know how they are being weeded out. It wasn't more evident to me until I started applying to the Chicago Public Schools. EVERY time I applied almost immediately I get an email saying I was rejected and that there are no positions available. They have been having ads up almost whole time I've been job searching (6+ months) so they just got ads running on loop but they don't really have jobs? Right. This was also shoved in my face again with University of Chicago. ALWAYS job ads running but of course nothing gets through their brick wall.Do they just need job applicants for some reason? Because what is the point? It's also sad and infuriating for us job seekers honestly trying to apply to a job. And these are the places that have the longest job applications too. They want a million dates--year you graduated kindergarten, a supervisor from your VERY FIRST job, etc.) not mention aptitude tests, cover letters, answering 5 separate questions and then you are immediately rejected after an hour of applying.That's like the job I applied for at a?grocery store?near me for part-time bagger, stock?clerk?for min wage. Actually way below that because of the stupid union fees. Yea?grocery?stores have a union which doesn't do anything anyways.Anyways a couple days after the interview?HR?left me a message saying they needed MORE references. I had 4 listed. They need more "work" related ones.I'm not joking. This for a min wage bagging job. I didn't have any more work ones. I would have been making probably $50 a week after taxes since it didn't give a lot of hours.That's awful.?Those HR people are so unreasonable.?It used to be if you reported to work and did a day's honest work, that's all that matter.I hope Karma exists. I hope these HR people meet up with their own ilk someday.My first bagging job was in 2000 for Publix Down in Fl where my mom worked. No BS like this. They hired people right after the first interview usually and no online test or other red tape. Just go in. Interviewed with two managers and 10 minutes later I was hired after the drug test. This garbage of multiple interviews seemed to start around 2008 when companies went to online apps.You know what's worse than a bad job? Not having any job at all.In some cases it can be far worse having a terrible job. Because then if you get fired you're screwed, and then that bad job just seems all the worse. I've been on both sides and I can say I was far more miserable with that terrible job than as I am right now, surviving off of $1.66 things of ramen and 99c boxes of mac and cheese, where I have to scrounge up enough quarters from odd place and the street to get 5$ of gas for an interview, and where I have to decide between bottled water and toilet paper when I have extra money that I got from xmas. Somehow all of that is a *bit* better than being in a toxic work environment, where at least I could pay my bills, feed myself good?food?and was stable, independent and had no trouble putting in 30$ to fill my gas tank.I don't know how that works, but eh. Although, both things suck.You know what's worse than a bad job? Not having any job at all.You say that now... But I still think it's worse having that trapped feeling, loathing every morning, the mental stress of dealing with it and knowing no pay would be enough for that stress. And I agree with Jury about losing that job. I was there. Losing a crappy job is DEFINTELY worse as much as it was a relief. I'm still mad it went down that way but am still glad I'm gone. Think of a job you really hated, would you go back for the next 30 or 40 years?As long as I looked and as angry I got, I still felt like it's just a job and somehow I can find something else. But i guess that's just me.I encourage those with hope and faith to keep believing in what seems impossible. Have a humble spirit and keep pleading with our Heavenly Father to provide for all your needs. He will do it. My prayers are "still" going up for you.Christian) for a long time now, so it's not the first time I've heard opinions like yours, nor will it be the last.I was reading here before I ever posted, and it seems that other people have basically said the same thing about your attitude though they didn't exactly pin it down to one word. And you also didn't seem to become very angry about it. You've been hurting and now it's turned into a lot of anger. Problem is, you believe you have nowhere to look, but to yourself. And if you did ALL the right things in life (good behavior and?education) and you got dealt this bad hand... well, I can totally understand why you are so "cantankerous."Now, I'm seeing nothing new on this board--for weeks! Just endless lamenting and bemoaning the situation. On and on. We can wallow in it for a time (I've done it myself), but at some point, we have to "guide" our minds to something more productive.If I need to vent, I have friends and loved ones in my life who will hear me out. Not only that, but offer love, encouragement and uplifting words. It feels a lot better.I've been nice all along too. But some of you who know what I'm about, can't stop reading my posts. Why get mad? If it doesn't apply, my words of faith are not for you. And if you don't want to read them, they're easy to ignore. But some people who check in here might find encouragement from them. In fact, I'll bet on it. Because they are not cantankerous.I had stated a lot of things and then some of you continued to bring the subject up, and I answered truthfully the way I felt.That's not why I'm leaving though.I have better things to do than endlessling lament and bemoan--or even read the lamenting and bemoaning of other folks.I'm really sorry about that. It hurts, but I don't have the words for nonbelievers, except to say that sometimes even if you don't believe in anything, but you're more "humble" (instead of demanding, argumentative, etc) God has mercy on you and gives you things.Unfortunately, I sense a lot of cantankerous spirits here, and it seems like because of suffering through pain, you've allowed it to take you over. Some of you gals seem "hard." And the other day, when I tried to encourage a single woman for love, you immediately shot the idea down--even though she has a desire to find Mr. Right.I don't get it.Time to change your attitudes, or other people might sense it in your personalities and not want to hire you.You're kidding, aren't you?You're the folks who don't have anyone to love you. Not me. It's hard to love the unlovely. Look into the mirror. That's my best advice.There are plenty of people posting here, but only "certain" ones have that cantankerous spirit. It's jumping off the pages! You and your "buddies" are in that group.Go back and read what some of you have posted. Ugh! You've been "rolling in it" for so long until you don't even realize what you sound like anymore.Whatever. I would never kick anyone who is down. I've also tried to be uplifting, but some of you here... God love you.Actually that's not so much a comment about God, as it is about the phonies that throw around His name.Whatever. What would YOU know about God? You keep going back to God, for some reason.I said it's your continual crying. Only a new person or one who is just like you would want to read this at all. Period!I've learned great info from people like Ruby Slippers about employers and what goes on behind the scenes. I've learned I'm not alone. I know a lot of professional people are without jobs, etc etc.Nothing more right now, except to read about hopeless people with hopeless attitudes, no friends, losers at love--negativity galore. (When I say this part, I know it hurts because it's true.)It's just too much.This conversation has degraded so much. So I must say, staffing agencies are really starting to annoy me. How are there even so many still functioning when most of these "TOP" recruiters are JOKES?Sorry, couldn't help myself. I'll stop, maybe it will go away.Yes, recruiters in?general?are a huge joke nowdays. Not so much in the past, but my last bout with unemployment I found no relief at staffing services or recruiters.I'll add one more thing, just to throw fuel on the?fire.There are a lot of posts in this thread in which people are farting into the wind. That's OK, it's what this thread is for. I've done some of it. But yes, it does get old when you read the same rants by the same people over and over.Meanwhile, there are threads in which people ask questions about the job hunt. But those threads seem to get few replies.I guess people would rather complain about stuff than try to be helpful.?i dont bother with recruiters....way tooooo picky....waste of timeRecruiters can blast your resume all over the place. Then if you go to a place and try to apply for a job, the recruiting agency has you. You have to go through them, because they sent your resume there first.?They aren't supposed to do this. They are supposed to contact you first before sending your resume to a site.?But it seems what people are supposed to do and what they do are two different things sometimes.I talked to my cousin today because I thought about going back for a masters degree and he thinks right now it is a waste of money for me because if I'm already having troubles finding a job it probably wont help a whole lot unless it was something technical and the company was paying for it.Otherwise he says having my own?business?would be less risky if it's service related and very little overhead cost.If you can't find work now, I'd hold off on the Masters.She reminded me on the way out that if she hires, not to expect many hours and definitely no benefits. "It's that way now, you know."I sure hope I can start my own?business?too.?A few points. Boxer, you have terrible luck with these interviews. Your stories make me so sad inside. Is this really what the?hiring?world has come to? I thought Obamacare made it mandatory for employers to offer benefits?Also, I'd love to start my own business. But it costs money. I bet if a handful of the unemployed banded together and were to start a magazine for the unemployed (with all the wisdom we've acquired!!), it'd be an instant hit. I can dream.You're kidding, right??This is the first time I've really posted anything about an interview.?Second, where do you get your information from??Are you in the US, that you think everyone is entitled to benefits??You need to understand how the new?insurance?works.Third, if you want to dream about something, it will never come true for you.?There are people applying for patents all of the time.?It's a lot of hard work, but it's harder to be unemployed.There are an awful lot of people that are glad when others are too afraid to start a business. Don't be one of them.Oh boy. Set your sights too high, too early, and you'll be gone too soon. The management like their cushy $70K+ salaries and all the rule breaking they do. They won't bring you on, especially if you don't act like 'one of them'... they don't want the status quo shaken up! I dunno if Lee wants to risk becoming an even better actor(actress) to straighten out a crooked place that's been operating like that for god knows how long.I agree with how management is, and that is ruining American?business.?My sister works for a brand name company and they seldom post jobs anywhere but on their own website. They get 100s of apps for each position. Doesn't cost them a dime.That's why I tend to stay away from well known companies. Since everyone knows them, everyone is applying there.And the who you know doesn't always work. Last Oct I filled out a TWO hour application and test for a company my parents worked for years ago and my mom's friend still works there. I used my moms friend as referral and put her on the application where it ask if you know anyone at the company. Two weeks later I get a canned email reply for the?HR?company they use for their software saying they decided on not filling the position ROFL. Yea no one at the company even saw my resume. Probably just acomputer?filtered it out and it waits a week or two to send a canned email.ounds like one of those interviews where the interview is completely unprepared and scattered, hasn't read a word of you resume', and listens to absolutely nothing that comes out of your mouth. I had an interview like that for AAA last year. Bizarre describes it perfectly. I felt like I'd been beamed in to a parallel universe.It wasn't a lack of confidence on her part. She was the big ego, ready to go. But she just doesn't understand what my job is. She hasn't a clue. It was things that she said...more than gave away her ignorance.You know, it's all about them, even when they are interviewing you.Maybe it will take American?business?to come crashing into the ground, before top management stops this crap. The whole egotistical manager, the petty?hiring?of friends or people they "like"...vs the real?animal?tough competitive world of finding people who can do the job and will make the company money.For all of the "we got rid of middle management" stuff, there are still too many bosses, too many managers...too many of them playing favorite, and too many of them just winging it on a day to day basis.How is it businesses for years and years didn't use the internet and?HRIS?programs to weed people out during?hiringand they did just fine. Why the last 10 year or so HRIS software is used by most companies?How did businesses operate just fine without it?I second this! I miss the days when all I had to do was write a nice cover letter introducing myself and my resume was simply my chronological work history,?education, and special skills. I would just fax, mail, or drop off my resume at the?business. Though email is nice because I don't have to buy expensive printer ink or bond paper.Now, I have to tweak and adjust my resume to fit each job I apply for, struggling to be sure to use all those "keywords" in the job description. And "keywords" that are so necessary to get through any applicant tracking software, are often times the very same "buzz words" that all the career advice columnist say?HR?is complaining they are so sick of seeing! Get through the applicant tracking software only to have a human being look at my generic resume and toss it aside in disgust.It's all a game. One big game. I'm convinced all they care about, if you get an interview and get past the screening applications, is your personality and your enthusiasm. If you have more than the next person, you're in. Basically you have to go into each interview as if you've just done a line while on speed.Yep, they want someone acting all jacked up.Very few livable wage jobs.?Lower pay for any job.?Employees doing the work of 2 or 3 people.?No stability in jobs.?Companies?hiring?friends and family.?Increased population.The mess with the jobs we get is an indication of how our society is going. Poorly. People have no morals or ethics and its dog eat dog. We can only try to maintain a sense of work ethic without getting chewed up and spit out. Its a delicate balancing actyes. Most of the job openings, the few there are they're mostly low paying and high stress jobs with lots of required qualifications and job duties.The full-time jobs have two pages of job duties and like $9.50 an hour.It's a joke how they have renamed jobs. Usually, when they rename them, there is more work, more responsibility, but less acknowledgement.?Examples:Sales clerks became "Associates"?Inside sales?became "Account?Executives"?Secretaries became "Administrative?Assistants", and less money.A friend of mine, who got downsized out of a well paying job and grabbed a low paying copy wrting job in order not to suffer from a huge employment gap, has been trying to find a better position for over a year now. She says jobs followed by term "Specialist" is the method of creating low paying professional positions.If there are kids or others with little to no credentials, how is it they can get $20+/hr. paying jobs & others with work experience & credentials, can't?Also, this whole Affordable Care Act is BS!!!Wow, didn't know what paid my bills for so many years was a 'garbage job'.I consider jobs like?admin?assistant, stock?clerk, etc to be crap jobs. You can't support a family or pay rent working for $9.50 an hour which is what most jobs pay these days which means you must work full-time and another part time job. Even $9.50 is good. A lot of the warehouse, material handler type ads I see are more like $8-8.50 an hour. Total joke.I think a lot of jobs in medicine are very low pay now.?I think that is what he means, not the actual job.Everyone in medicine is getting less these days, from docs on down.?I've seen desk people being paid $8 an hour.?More money for the management, less for the worker.?And a lot of positions don't have benefits anymore. They think we can just go buy them from the?government. Most jobs now are just servicing the rich.Hey folks, those not working are just not "participating" according to this liberalized conservative group. They might as well call themselves liberals.?Check this out...the recession is all over, lol.?What a bunch of propaganda.?No one ever polled me or asked me anything.?I wonder if anyone here has ever been asked to take a poll or anything like that.?Just more lies about how great everything is.research/reports/2014/09/not-looking-for-work-why-labor-force-participation-has-fallen-during-the-recoveryIs anyone else tired of stupid personality test that waste your time on applications? I don't mind taking test that actually measure skills, bit I am tired of spending hours answering question where it is so obvious what they want you to say. Do they actually think someone is going to say they always come in late, push their work off onto others, steal from the till and otherwise not do their job?I want nothing to do with Obozo Care. Has caused me nothing but problems when it comes to my families?health?premiums.It's a total rip off to make you pay for everyone else.They want you to come in all jacked up and charged up, all bubbly and perky, because to THEM, that means you will do a good job.They want you to fawn all over their customers, if you have a job like that.It's not enough to be polite. They want someone all racheted up.The emphasis on "happy" is some kind of a modern disease. People used to be concerned with survival and having the basic necessities.Now, it's about "I have to be happy".But no one really KNOWS what makes them happy.If you learn to play a song on the piano, and you do it well, you feel some happiness.?But this idea that it's a 24/7 thing is crazy.These?HR?tests are just more signs of the modern crazy world.As I see it, they love to be lied to. Best liar gets the job, kinda like presidential elections.Well, somehow you qualify for Medicaid, but the rest of us don't.?I wasn't targeting people who really do need medical care, but the people who just think?government?assistance is an alternative to working.Most doctors do not accept medicaid. Medicaid also does not cover prescriptions as well as most of the plans under the new "obamacare" exchanges. This ACA program & Medicaid is a joke. You are paying hundreds of dollars or nothing because you are indigent but nothing is covered.?And I don't think anyone prefers to receive government assistance as an alternative to working but for either real or imagined reasons THEY CANNOT GET HIRED. You can go on hundreds & thousands of interviews and not get hired for what I said real or imagined reasons..I was gonna say... I didn't qualify and I can't sign up for a premium that costs $$$. I don't wanna be penalized for not havinginsurance, so I don't know what to do. I'll probably call them on Monday or go through the medicaid site.I had no insurance for most of 2014 and got fined $71 on my tax return. Oh well, better than owing back the thousands in "subsidies" I would now owe since I'm making more money than unemployment.I had no?insurance?for most of 2014 and got fined $71 on my tax return. Oh well, better than owing back the thousands in "subsidies" I would now owe since I'm making more money than unemployment.I would rather pay $71 a month than close to $800 a month as a single person for one of the lowest cost 'plans' under the ACA with a $10,000 deductible. Does that make any sense??Nope, not much about it makes any sense. It was $71 period, not a month. They take it out of your refund if you have one. Worked for me.so what would you propose for those who are unemployed or underemployed and can't afford?health?insurance, just forgo it and drop dead?I sometimes think that is the grand?design?behind Obamacare. You got the "end of life 'discussions'" doctors are required to have with people in certain situations. You've got the absolutely prohibitive costs for families, with kids with chronic illnesses. The more of us who drop dead, the fewer the?government?has to take care of in it's forced 'take care of us whether we want it or not' pland.I was gonna say... I didn't qualify and I can't sign up for a premium that costs $$$. I don't wanna be penalized for not havinginsurance, so I don't know what to do. I'll probably call them on Monday or go through the medicaid site.Same for me. I looked at the plans.?It would cost me the minimum of 400 for the cheapest plan with a 6600 deductible. So until you spend 6600, you're not getting anything paid for.?Right now, I don't make enough to get by let alone pay for a plan like that.I read you're supposed to estimate how much you will make for the year. I have absolutely NO idea. I can't even guestimate.If you underestimate, they will fine you for the money back at the end of the year, too. So that's a no win.But I am like you, I cannot afford to pay for it.?so what would you propose for those who are unemployed or underemployed and can't afford?health?insurance, just forgo it and drop dead?I sometimes think that is the grand?design?behind Obamacare. You got the "end of life 'discussions'" doctors are required to have with people in certain situations. You've got the absolutely prohibitive costs for families, with kids with chronic illnesses. The more of us who drop dead, the fewer the?government?has to take care of in it's forced 'take care of us whether we want it or not' pland.I am like one of the people from a long time ago.?I think if something big hits me and it's not something I can recover from on my own...pneumonia, broken back, cancer...then it's my time to go.I see tons of people getting free medicine every day. But the majority of them are not Americans.Most doctors do not accept medicaid. Medicaid also does not cover prescriptions as well as most of the plans under the new "obamacare" exchanges. This ACA program & Medicaid is a joke. You are paying hundreds of dollars or nothing because you are indigent but nothing is covered.?And I don't think anyone prefers to receive?government?assistance as an alternative to working but for either real or imagined reasons THEY CANNOT GET HIRED. You can go on hundreds & thousands of interviews and not get hired for what I said real or imagined reasons..A lot of docs and clinics do.?The indigent do get covered. I see it. Where they make out is they don't pay anything. But they do get office visits, procedures, and treatments.?That's the problem with the "Rob peter to pay paul" mentality.The liberals think every one working is rich, so they should pay for all of the people coming into this country who don't work. It's just so wrong.In my state, you cannot get Medicaid unless you are a mother with young kids or from another place. That's a real backstab to those who worked and paid into the system.I got 6 rejection form letters in my email today for jobs I applied to.?I really believe that the people who know people don't have to apply online.I just won't talk to any of the people anymore who tell me how the economy has improved.I know I shouldn't complain, and I am fortunate to have found work, but every time I start to see daylight from a year of no job, it all goes down the drain. I cannot BELIEVE how the cost of everything has gone up recently. When I had no paycheck, I did without. Now it's like flushing money down the toilet just to maintain the day to day of going to work. The really stupid part, is with a little effort on the part of the IS department, I could do my total job from home. AND accomplish twice as much without all the office crap that goes on. The answer: No. I don't know what to do or say to the people who tell me I'm not working hard enough. My roommate I've been living with is starting to get discouraged with it, since I promised a month or two to get back on my feet. I was looking at homelessness before that. People just act like I'm not doing enough in my search.It's overwhelming too. You constantly look in your field, then you apply to places like Target, where you KNOW you can't survive on the pay.?How DO people live off the pay at Target? Do they live with 10 other people?The economy has improved but the job market has very little to do with it.I don't see where the economy has improved. Groceries for instance, WAY up over last year. I can't remember the last time a?grocery?bill was reasonable. Gas and oil, yeah, I'll give you that, much cheaper,but I'm making what USED to be called a decent living, and I can't manage to save anything for an emergency or another period of unemployment. And I'm in a "probationary" period for another 3 months, total 6. So my 3 days off in the last week or so, buried in snow, doesn't look great, I'm thinking.The economy has improved but the job market has very little to do with it.I use "the economy" loosely to describe the job market. Because so many industries are just about gone from the US. It's impacted everything. Yet, the population is growing.Yeah, that's a common mindset of people who aren't experiencing what you are. Until you're in that spot, you have no clue. I didn't. What a shock to get rejection emails and letters instead of offers. I seriously thought I'd walk right into another job, but after a while, I started to think it was me, until I stumbled on this forum. But try to let that crap roll off....as you know, this forum has had some success stories lately, so hang in!When I was working?full time, I was very aware of the job market.?I had bouts of unemployment before, and was aware of how saturated my field has become.?I think with a lot of the clueless, it's a superiority thing. Like it can't happen to them. It's just "other people". Like there has to be something wrong with someone who can't find a job. I think we have all heard that one. "Well, what's wrong with YOU?"But those parents have the internet, which is a great tool.?Instead of blowing their own kids off, and dismissing their situation, they could look beyond the CNN and all of the "everything's okay" dribble.Yeah, for some people it's easier to have no faith in the way you raised your kid. When mine was through his first year of unemployment was when I started to really look at the situation, because I KNEW he wasn't lazy or stupid. He definitely put too much faith in his?college?advisers, and took a wrong major. I have no reason to believe he won't come out of this ok, and until he does, my roof is his roof. He, actually is the one who encouraged me to look beyond media dribble at what's really going on. He sounds so much like you, sometimes, X.College advisors tell people to go into saturated fields. Sometimes, it feels like they are being paid off or something so they can keep certain fields well stocked for employers.I just filled out an online application.?I have to take TWO personality tests.?TWO.?One is 10 minutes.?One is 25 minutes.OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I STRONGLY AGREE that these tests are a waste of my time.Also notice, when they want you to agree with all of their conditions, etc., and you have to electronically sign at the bottom of the page, they should just say, "If you won't go along with everything, forget about the job." Like you can even advance with the application if you don't "agree". It's like coercion. You have to agree. It may be viewed as voluntary, but you have to have a job.With me, the cluelessness was because the last time I was unemployed, in the late 90's, there were plenty offactory?jobs still, where I had most experience. When I got laid off from my last one of those, I did a few courses, brushing up on secretarial skills from high school and was hired almost immediately into an office. THAT's the world a lot of the parents of kids on this forum are living in. It never occurred to me that I would NOT find a job, when I got laid off. And I did find one, always. At the time I didn't know any long-term unemployed people. It wasn't that I was some kind of shining star, it was just that there were more jobs available.More jobs and less people being laid off. I could always find a job fairly quicky too. The same crap office type jobs I have now, but then you were pretty much hired and now it's multiple interviews and a 2 month long wait with?HR, giving several references, etc. and the pay and bennies are worse. That's very discouraging.There were 6 pages of these things.My version of things: :DI think this test was a waste of time. STRONGLY AGREE.?I think this test is trying to trip me up. STRONGLY AGREE.?I think people are being paid a lot of money to make these tests that don't prove a thing. STRONGLY AGREE.?The people selling the tests are probably related to the people in?HR. STRONGLY AGREE.I dont apply for jobs that have those damn tests anymore. I might, if i had a real live contact with a halfway decent chance to get the thing, but overall I do not. Life is too short. I once had an interview at a company.......the guy asked me dozens of absurd questions and then presented me with tests on paper (none of which had anything to do with the skills required for the job) and then informed me he had "concerns" because of an issue in my job history . A person I had put down for a reference cheerfully told him all the details of a job i had been fired from, thinking that he would value the honesty. He didnt. If that sort of thing happened to me now, i'd get up and walk out. I have wasted a lot of time with that sort of dribble and dont intend to repeat it.i remember the days if you had a bachelor degree you were treated like a god at interviews. you had the job the moment you applied.But now, everyone is pushed to go to?college. People are told they will never "make it" without a degree.?Most degrees are like a high school diploma now. High school guidance counselors push everyone to have a degree. Because it was true about 20 years ago.Every time I open a site for an application, there are pictures of people smiling. Yeah, they are just stock photos, of course, but it's so annoying. Big toothy, open mouths. Yuck. It's all so fake. No work place looks like that.Then I go to the store, and there's banners all over the place with faces of people smiling again. What's up with all of the faces smiling? Are they supposed to be smiling at US?It's so bizarre. The more?business?cranks up the vibe, the more bizarre the world becomes.It would be nice to live somewhere without the facade.Yeh I remember in the late 90's that I went to one job interview and after 15 minutes of talking with the manager I was hired on the spot...that job only lasted two weeks because the hours they initially quoted was changed and it no longer worked for me...so then about a week later I had an interview with another company and after a 30 minute interview was given an offer and hired as long as my drug test and criminal background came back clear.I really miss those days of being able to quit one job and easily find another job within a matter of weeks.So true... I recall that decade as being fairly easy to get a job and even transition into others fairly easily. I worked in sales during and after?college. Several months after I finished my undergrad, I worked in?HR. I only worked there for 6 months and was let go along with 6 others. Company was barely getting by so they could no longer afford the payroll expense. Within 2 weeks I quickly landed a job in?insurance?underwriting making more than what I was earning in HR. The economy has changed indeed.I been unemployed now for about year, and based on my experience, I been on multiple interviews from call centers down to retail and what I have learn is that the system is broken. The recruiting process is broken recruiters like playing phone tag about phone interviews, and if your lucky enough to get face to face interview. Most of the time management are clueless and are picky on who they select for a candidate. Asking stupid questions like who would you save in a?fire?what kind of question does this have to do with working in tech support. If you do land job it's all about connections from the inside. Sorry about the rant but just needed to vent about how broken the system really is.I been unemployed now for about year, and based on my experience, I been on multiple interviews from call centers down to retail and what I have learn is that the system is broken. The recruiting process is broken recruiters like playing phone tag about phone interviews, and if your lucky enough to get face to face interview. Most of the time management are clueless and are picky on who they select for a candidate. Asking stupid questions like who would you save in a?fire?what kind of question does this have to do with working in tech support. If you do land job it's all about connections from the inside. Sorry about the rant but just needed to vent about how broken the system really is.I know it's horrible here in Arizona. You have the 30, 40, 50 year old retirees living it up on our taxes. I get tired of the bragging they do. They always have a very expensive motorcycle, car, several homes, and vacation all of the time. I had one?customer?telling me how he is so bored, so he HAS to go on another vacation, that's before he goes off to his?farmin another state, and he just eats out every day and golfs. He is 51 years old.There are no jobs here, and the nonworkers treat the workers like crap.I finally bit the bullet and stopped in to my eye dr. about my night blindness/halos as I really cannot drive once the Sun starts to go down. He would not just see me briefly then and there so I had to make an official appt. I won't pay a cent for this thanks to Medicaid.You are EXACTLY who Medicaid is for in the first place! And I wasn't particularly referring to Hispanics, or people who are here legally. I was referring to the seemingly ENDLESS number of people from the Middle East arriving. EVERY TIME I see a name I can't pronounce, I know I'll be able to pronounce the?insurance. EVERY SINGLE TIME! I am so sorry this unemployment thing has gripped you for so long. I'm the never give up hope kind, but I guess that sounds pretty stupid to somebody who's been out of work for 6 years. I think I'd be writing a book by now, if I were you. Ever consider doing anything non-normal like that?I just recently graduated?college?and started my job search near the beginning of my last semester, and I'm still looking more than a month of finishing college. I admit, I did not have as much time during school to search for a job, maybe sending in 1 or 2 applications per week. But still, I tried to land a job before graduating, but with no luck. Ever since the holidays ended, I have applied to between 100 and 200 places and received about 8 interviews, but still no job. It's super frustrating to spend 4 years of my life working to obtain a degree, but not being able to get work! At least I'm getting somewhere with interviews, but?hiring?managers never call when they say they will, and don't reply when I try to follow up. I know there's nothing wrong with me and it's not completely in my control, but if somebody went to college, shouldn't they be guaranteed a job? That does not seem to be the case anymore. I had better luck when I was still college.Welcome to the real world having a Degree in this economy is worthless. Managers over look your?education?and ask for the experience instead. To every job you apply for their at least 400 hundred people fighting for that one position. I have seen people get jobs with no college education making $20hr only because they have some sort experience in their field. You have better chance of winning the lottery than finding a job right now.I've told this before, so you old timers bear with it, the new college grad needs to hear it. I was replaced when I resigned from a 10-year position in a medical office, with another 7 years experience before that in another office, by a waitress/barista. She was hired for about 4 bucks an hour less than me and for half the number of hours. Hopefully this kept the gigantic company afloat, not having to pay my enormous wage.I just recently graduated?college?and started my job search near the beginning of my last semester, and I'm still looking more than a month of finishing college. I admit, I did not have as much time during school to search for a job, maybe sending in 1 or 2 applications per week. But still, I tried to land a job before graduating, but with no luck. Ever since the holidays ended, I have applied to between 100 and 200 places and received about 8 interviews, but still no job. It's super frustrating to spend 4 years of my life working to obtain a degree, but not being able to get work! At least I'm getting somewhere with interviews, but?hiring?managers never call when they say they will, and don't reply when I try to follow up. I know there's nothing wrong with me and it's not completely in my control, but if somebody went to college, shouldn't they be guaranteed a job? That does not seem to be the case anymore. I had better luck when I was still college.It's easy to think that way at first based on societal views, but when you truly consider it, many routes in college don't really do anything to boost a person's usefulness or self-actualization. There's a lot of taking notes, and doing papers and exams, but little firsthand experience at businesses. The importance of real world experience is not emphasized nearly enough as it should be, with many people being suckered into thinking that a high GPA and some semesters on the Dean's List will give them an edge in the market. Decades ago, that held true on?account?of the relative rarity of college graduates, but today, there are so many people being given access to college that the value of degrees has plummeted.Yeah, a degree is basically worthless..... don't even bother unless you can get tuition reimbursement or a guarantee that you'll have a job. I know some of the liberals don't like Limbaugh on here BUT this is a great article on his website talking about how the unemployment stats the?government?tells us is WAY off.We all pretty much knew this already though but I'm so sick of people telling me there are tons of jobs out there if I want them.daily/2015/02/05/the_gallup_ceo_doubles_down?People are just selfish in the workplace now. What's all this team player crap ???"Team Player", for the managers/directors/higher-ups, is code for: "When I say 'Jump!', you'll ask 'How high?!' And you'll ask enthusiastically without a hint of disdain in your tone. Glad we agree!"Well-said! Don't give up! I'm going to resort to blasting my resume out there to every Job Board from hereforth and beating the streets even if it kills me. It's McDonald's for me for sure, it seems like they're the only place "always?hiring?".Lindsey, all I can say is, WORD FOR WORD. It could have been my letter. Craigslist seems like the best. All these other searches show jobs unrelated to what you do. I am a picture framer and besides that I apply for any retail stores,?bakery?help?hotel?front desk?jobs etc. I have looked for almost two years and still don't want Mcdonalds either.Once before I was in this situation and could not believe it took almost four months!?I guess a poor economy takes longer. When I got that job it had felt it was never coming, but it did and will.One thing though, I have spent too much time feeling awful and angry too; at employers who have no common courtesy. We must remember that even though employment is very very important, other things are too, like friends and decent?health. Don,t let the situation be the only thing in your life of any importance.Barry in MarylandToday I was let all alone is the Service Dept. Phones ringing off the hook, customers lined up and I was trying to get my work orders done for vehicles that had to get in fast. Total chaos!!!!!!Should I keep staying late? Or, will I just end up a doormat in the end?If your pay is based on commission and you are doing work that will increase that commission, keep it up. If not, I would seriously worry about the doormat issue. I have made the mistake many, many times of doing too much work. In the end, you just get burned out and resentful. People appreciate it at first, but then grow to expect it from you.As I write this, CBS is reporting a much improved job market, more people hired, AND ta DAH.....they are good paying jobs. Scott Pelley said that with a straight face. Maybe he believes it, too. I guess I shouldn't shoot the ignorant messenger.You can say that again. I'm stalling signing the offer letter because I have one more interview and just want to feel secure in my choice. Ugh. Why is it such a gamble with companies? Do they not get that yeah, they might get a bad employee, but it's not like it'll tarnish their reputation or screw with their future. But if you find a bad workplace... oh boy.TRUTH! I just got screamed at today because I gave the shareholder a message and I had the mans last name wrong. I corrected it but he didn't care. Yes, a mistake but he went on screaming "HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PREVENT THIS IN THE FUTURE?!" So yep, I hear you. It's not like I could ask employees how THEY are before accepting and get references on them like they can do us. We want a good workplace just like they want good workers. It's acceptable to be treated like s#it.You are preaching right here. It's a gamble finding that especially after looking for so long, the odds seem to go down at finding something tolerable because you end up in "take what you can" land. I'm really happy for you because you didn't need any more stress.most jobs just flat out stink today. and if they dont stink today they will soon in the future....another company buys your company, new boss, etcemployees today are treated like crapp, not an asset"Team Player", for the managers/directors/higher-ups, is code for: "When I say 'Jump!', you'll ask 'How high?!' And you'll ask enthusiastically without a hint of disdain in your tone. Glad we agree!"I found out what "team player" means.?When bosses hire their friends and expect you to pick up their slack. Or when they want to take off and expect you to cover for them. You don't have a life, right??Team player means when we want you to do something, you have to. But when you are sick or need help, forget it.What an A-hole. Keep on looking....and maybe check Glass Door for the next one. The people on there scored the company that bought the practice I was working for got it right down to the last detail. They sucked, and those people nailed it. Current and former employees.Yeah, when I have had my own experience with a company and go back and read I see a lot of people are correct and I can agree. I'm not looking for perfect but can I be treated like a human? It's really sad and depressing what some of us have to go through to have a job. Again, I see why so many people try to start their own businesses.?I know some of the liberals don't like Limbaugh on here BUT this is a great article on his website talking about how the unemployment stats the?government?tells us is WAY off.We all pretty much knew this already though but I'm so sick of people telling me there are tons of jobs out there if I want them.daily/2015/02/05/the_gallup_ceo_doubles_downI don't call myself a conservative anymore, because there isn't much I agree with in both conservatism or liberalism.A long time ago, Rush was yelling at people, telling them to get a job, "You can get a job if you wanted to"...making them sound lazy, etc.I think now that Obama is in, he is going say how bad the job market is. If the Republicans get in, he will probably go back to saying how you have to work hard, etc.I don't like the radio political evangelists. I think the only one who has a clue is Michael Savage.I hope Dr. Savage sees this. Because I don't think he wants to be part of that pack anyway.Again, I see why so many people try to start their own businesses.Same here. I'm toying with some ideas.I don't call myself a conservative anymore, because there isn't much I agree with in both conservatism or liberalism.A long time ago, Rush was yelling at people, telling them to get a job, "You can get a job if you wanted to"...making them sound lazy, etc.I think now that Obama is in, he is going say how bad the job market is. If the Republicans get in, he will probably go back to saying how you have to work hard, etc.I don't like the radio political evangelists. I think the only one who has a clue is Michael Savage.I hope Dr. Savage sees this. Because I don't think he wants to be part of that pack anyway.True, but back even 5 years ago it wasn't quite as hard to get a job despite it being the "peak" of the recession. I find it much harder now.Savage is good. I also like some of what David Duke has been saying about the jobs too. Sure he's called racist but he is totally spot on regarding how whites are getting passed over in jobs because of all thesegovernment?programs. It has affected me as a white male. Like at school all the jobs I applied for only to be passed up by people he can barely speak English. Or jobs want me to be?bilingual.The recession has been spiraling down since the 1980s. That's when the first companies closed up and went to Mexico or overseas.Millions of people became unemployed or underemployed. Engineers, accountants,?factory?workers, and more. Spin off businesses, dependent on steel,automotive, and other big manufacturing, had to close up.I think anyone who says anything favorable about whites gets called a racist.?I think everyone should have their own group culture, and I think everyone should have their own countries.This includes all groups, including whites. There is too much animosity toward whites.It's more important not to mix. People LIKE various cultures. They LIKE ethnic foods, music,?art,?architecture, and languages. So when everyone just mixes, what do we have? Hamburgers and hot dogs?I like Savage because he gets why things are done. He is right about about attitudes and how people manipulate.In Arizona is it bad because of all the Hispanics when it comes to?hiringwhites, or even other non Hispanics?Nowadays, if you say something and it's disagreed with, someone is always there to slap the "raycist" label. It's a way they put a politician or any media person out of?business.I think the days of a good working environment seem to be coming to an end. It seems as though every company known for treating their employees fairly has been taken over by bottom feeding douchebags.Usually one of the first things these companies seem to do, is to?fireeveryone in?HR?and hire some outside firm to handle?hiring. These outside hiring/HR companies seem to all have the same process, you have to register for the company's internal website, fill out an online application where they will ask you important questions such as what grade you got in coloring in Kindergarten, then you have to complete a personality test, and then you may be asked to take a skills test.No matter what I am not giving up, if for no other reason than to screw over people who will add you to the "not looking for work" column. There is no way in heck so many people are not looking for work.Agree, and this lady called me after a month to say they got so many resumes she was just not getting through them and was inviting me in. I found that sad that so many are applying for one job. I had another interview where the woman showed me the resumes, they were STACKED up. Might have been almost 1000, if I had to guess. Definitely not enough jobs.More proof that the media and the govt are lying to us.I hope you get called back.Well, a lot of companies hire people from other nations on HB-1s, too, esp. IT. I don't think a lot of those companies are?hiring. I know that Intel has put up millions to hire "diversity" so that excludes whites from jobs now.I have met more people here who are 40 or 52 who are retired. If you ask, they are usually?government?workers who retired on a fat pension. I had one tell me that people who have to work "bore me" and how no one over 50 should be looking for a job. What an arrogant nut. If the deal he has is so great, why does he even care what others do? Maybe sitting around the house all day isn't so hot for him. He said he owns 3 homes and travels all the time.I don't care for the attitudes here. I notice how these "nonworkers" treat those who have to work. They think we are their slaves. I can't imagine how it is for waiters and waitresses who have to deal with their spoiled attitudes.I can't stand those kinds. They sound entitled to their fat gubermint pensions. That is the typical Obama voter. Government workers love Obama and the liberals who make the government bigger. That is why VA is becoming so liberal because the government keeps expanding and more workers moving there.State workers are the same way.I can't stand those kinds. They sound entitled to their fat gubermint pensions. That is the typical Obama ernment?workers love Obama and the liberals who make the government bigger. That is why VA is becoming so liberal because the government keeps expanding and more workers moving there.State workers are the same way.Oh, for goodness sakes. 20 years ago, when I was trying to decide to stay in the private sector or get a government job, I stuck with the private sector because for comparable work, I made more money.Now, the private sector is repeatedly screwing over workers, wriggling out of pensions and benefits, demanding people show up pre- trained. But, suddenly it's the average government worker's fault that they are still getting a pension??? You're resentful of the wrong people. How about being ticked off at the people who aren't paying you a decent living rather than the workers who had enough sense to join a union.I hate the modern government job sector because of how lazy and incompetent many of the workers are.Look at the VA system. My dad is disabled vet so I see how rude and incompetent the workers, doctors, etc at these hospitals are. Many of them really do just stand around and BS all day and make good money still.I've been searching for a job ever since I graduated from?college?in 2011, and STILL haven't found anything full-time! My family, who I regrettable live with (not by choice) doesn't/can't help me saying "Oh, you're the only one in this house who has a college degree. You're suppose to be smart enough to figure these things out." I've volunteered, signed up with temp agencies, and have done a couple of seasonal jobs, but still nothing that I can rely on. I've also contacted my school's career center and have gone to worksource.wa. They haven't helped me; all they tell me is to keep doing what I'm doing.And my dad, who just got back from deployment, is going into retirement, which means he's selling the house and moving. I payed his bills and watched over the house while he was away, but now I don't know what I'm going to do!?graduated Dec 2013 and the only job I had since was a part-time job at Northern Tool as a?cashier?which I quit on the spot one day when my manager kept verbally harassing me, and then had a seasonal job at Macy's which some weeks gave me 4 hours and one week no hours!Last fall I seemed to have a bit better luck with interviews but the jobs didn't pay enough and were part-time. Looking back I wish I took some of them.My school's career center has a website with jobs listed, however the postings I see on there are the same jobs I see on indeed as well usually, hence just a waste of time. All the school wants is your $$$$$$I was just thinking about this when I decided to search Indeed. Had an interview on Friday. First they cancelled the interview. They just said sorry cant take it any farther and hung up on me. Then called me back to reschedule. Then I get there and they tell me Im not qualified after I filled out all of their anal paperwork background and?credit?check papers. The treatment of the applicants is bad, rude. People need to start fighting back it is bad.I hate the modern?government?job sector because of how lazy and incompetent many of the workers are.Look at the VA system. My dad is disabled vet so I see how rude and incompetent the workers, doctors, etc at these hospitals are. Many of them really do just stand around and BS all day and make good money still.Yep, as much as they get better stuff, I don't see why anyone thinks we should all jump on the bandwagon.?or going the extra mile.?I don't get why anyone is patting them on the backs.?I don't think anyone sees them as hard workers.At the post office, if there are a dozen people in line, and one window is backed up with a?customer?holding up the line, you will see the other line get closed down and the person goes to lunch. I have never worked anywhere where I could just walk off and go to lunch like that. Most of the time, I got no lunch, I had to keep taking customers. It really opened my eyes to what they are like.In AZ, a lot of vets died at a VA?hospital?here. Says a lot.When I go to the post office the old workers who work the counter seem to give better service around here. I mean the old timers who have probably been there for 30 years now. The younger workers however are just terrible usually.They probably remember the days when govt workers weren't paid as much as private industry workers.?It's just a big welfare system now.The pension system is why liberal states like California are going broke. It's insane how some of those people are getting pensions that equal their full years pay like I posted about before 50 yr old?firefighter, brother in?lawfriend of mine retiring and getting 105 percent of what they last made yearly! My management teacher in?college?a couple years ago was about 60 and got about 100k a year pension from the IRS he told us! He just taught a couple classes for extra money at night. That is just unreal. I think he was retired for about 10 years too! Always wore Ralph Lauren leather jackets, glasses, shirts etc.Yea. I always see different faces so those old workers I wonder if they're just part-time now for some extra money and once were mail carriers when they were younger.The pension system is why liberal states like California are going broke. It's insane how some of those people are getting pensions that equal their full years pay like I posted about before 50 yr old?firefighter, brother in?law?friend of mine retiring and getting 105 percent of what they last made yearly! My management teacher in?college?a couple years ago was about 60 and got about 100k a year pension from the IRS he told us! He just taught a couple classes for extra money at night. That is just unreal. I think he was retired for about 10 years too! Always wore Ralph Lauren leather jackets, glasses, shirts etc.This is what people complained about with the unions. Now, the only unions are the govt workers. So why is it okay for them to work 20 years and retire and be supported for say, 40 years??No one is ever going to force private industry to do this for its workers. Just try and get a union going in your profession and see where it gets you.Taxpayer pays their salaries, right?Public sector is dependent on the private sector paying taxes. The problem with many states now is that they have a shrinking tax base. When you lay off 1,000 workers and replace them with the Binford 2.0 how do you tax the machine? Those 1,000 workers are no longer paying income tax. Its a dilemma.Exactly. So when we are paying for all of these?government?workers to retire and give them pensions and free?healthcare?until they die, it's becoming more and more of a burden as the private sector is making less.When you are working and being taxed more and more, and then you meet these people who have lives of leisure and travel, you really have to question why government workers are more valued than private sector workers and why the system works for them and not us.The Department of Defense is THE largest public sector employer in the US but you have to wonder how long is this sustainable? You can only raise taxes so much before you become a one term politician.One book, "Lights in the Tunnel" by Martin Yate predicts that within 20 years, 50% of us will be working for the?government. He doesn't answer the question as to who is going to pay for this though.A lot of industry, such as?aerospace, is private sector, but heavily regulated by the government. Private sector does?engineering?and innovation better because it is competitive, but also, public sector does a lot of research, because they get the funding.The government is such a huge bloated thing.?Right now a lot of people are riding the wave.I don't think it's right that employers can contact our former employers to find out what we were making. It never lets you ask for more money. Well, you can, but they can always say no.?Most of them probably don't care what we made, they want to pay what they want to pay.I think every single parent should teach their?children?to think about starting their own?business?when they grow up.Wonder why the boss' boss puts up with his monkeyshines??Sounds like he was pretty mad, but you wonder if this goes on all the time.?Why do they let him get away with this stuff?In our case, I had 4 coworkers. Two were fired a month into me working. Another one was fired 4 months before I began. That was enough to scare everyone. They'd all smile and laugh in the?director's face but she was batsh*t as she was the one doing all the firing. They were all too scared of being axed next to do anything. One of the coworkers knew the boss through?church, so of course she wasn't going anywhere.I didn't stand for it and got the axe myself. :D I'd rather go out standing up for what I believe in than by being a coward and schmoozing to someone who doesn't deserve it.what do you guys think about when it comes to temp to hire!Meaningless. Agencies can say that all day long. It means nothing. It keeps the temp hopeful and maybe happy in the job. Any temp is temp to hire because the client could potentially hire any temp at any time through the agency.what do you guys think about when it comes to temp to hire!I'd take that over a solely temp position. Temp to hire worked out for someone I know, so, I guess it depends on the company.However, recruiting agencies, especially in?admin/logistic positions are usually all cash making?legal?schemes that never really intend to have you leave their service. If they can keep you in their employ, they'll do so, because that's more money for them.That's how I see it, anyway.This is what I mean how employers are so quick to?fire?new employees because they know they can find someone else to replace them who will do 100 percent arse kissing or be a slave.I didn't call that dealer back for an interview. The?cashier?positions at dealers seem to be really stressful. The person they hired back in Nov must have not worked out and they were desperate for people hence why they go on indeed to pull resumes up.If you work 40 hours with the raise, that's a $4 a week increase.?Can they spare it?Tell me about it. Their union as many unions is a joke. It's basically useless as they pay you less money than a non union job. They do offer?healthinsurance?for part-time employees after a year for a low rate but it's crap and takes up even more of your pay check.I wonder if they do the same thing with 15 year olds or people with mental disabilities as you stated. I see them working in the stores and wonder how they have work references if they never worked before.I never called that lady back and just said heck with it. For 15 hours a week and less than $5 an hour it probably isn't a good place to work for anyways. They ALWAYS are?hiring?there because the pay is so low. I had a total of 4 references.?I've seen people with Down Syndrome working as baggers.?I wonder if they torture them with the same multiple interviews too.?Jeesh, it's so hard to even stomach that.That's where the ADA comes into play, not sure about the interview process, but work environment...My best friend is currently in arbitration for her brother, who is has diminished capacity and the lovely?Kmart?Corp along with it's employees has made it a hostile work environment for him....It seems employers can do whatever they want anymore. It's sad.I graduated Dec 2013. I got a job at Northern Tool as part-time?cashier?that lasted about 2 months until I had to walk out because of the stress and harassing managers and had a seasonal job at Macy's that was giving me hardly any hours from Aug-Dec.Is that normal for a?business?degree graduate? Been 13 months now and that's all the work I've had and very few interviews out of all the applications I was firing away.I don't want to being you down, so please take this as "tough love."Yes, it is normal to have a tough time finding a first job out of?college?these days. That said, your degree is rotting from lack of using it. On top of that, "Business" is the most common category of Bachelor's Degree awarded each year in the US, so companies have plenty of fresh candidates to fill their?entry-level business jobs. I know that several posters on here decry volunteering as a method for lowering wages, but you might need to consider offering to run the office for a?church?or something, so that you can have a record of doing "business-y" things. Failing that, maybe think of a business-oriented task that you are really good at and try to freelance at it.You've probably realized that walking away from your part-time job was a mistake, no matter how bad it was. As many on here have observed, it's far easier to find a job when you are already working. When you worked at Macy's, are you sure you did everything you could to get more hours? It might be your location, but I know several people who were seasonal workers at Macy's that got full-time hours during the holidays and were invited back as part-time employees for the rest of the year. Take it from a former college drop out, sometimes you just need to take a step back and re-evaluate yourself.I graduated Dec 2013. I got a job at Northern Tool as part-time?cashier?that lasted about 2 months until I had to walk out because of the stress and harassing managers and had a seasonal job at Macy's that was giving me hardly any hours from Aug-Dec.Is that normal for a?business?degree graduate? Been 13 months now and that's all the work I've had and very few interviews out of all the applications I was firing away.My 45-year old son has lived with me without a job for most of the last 3 years. He has a degree in meteorology and a 25-year history in teaching and tutoring. He worked at Walmart overnights last year for 3 months and gave notice. They were not at all surprised or upset, and he sort of had the idea he was going to get canned. Because a retail worker knows how to hustle as if it were their religion and he could never get as fast as them. The overnights were not good, and we're sharing a car, and I was increasingly worried about him getting home in storms in time for me to get to work.( Now that I see what this winter has become here, I'm SO GLAD he made that decision.) But to answer your question, yeah, unfortunately, this forum is full of well-qualified, well-educated people who end up working retail or worse, if there is such a thing, just to get by. Sign of the times. But don't ever give up. You have a talent and it's bound to come through for you sooner or later.The real problem: Everyone gets up on their soap box when they have problems and basically say f' everyone else the second the system gives them a cookie..There is all kinds of bias and illogical behavior in the job markets, but people only care when THEY are effected..I don't want to being you down, so please take this as "tough love."You've probably realized that walking away from your part-time job was a mistake, no matter how bad it was. As many on here have observed, it's far easier to find a job when you are already working. When you worked at Macy's, are you sure you did everything you could to get more hours? It might be your location, but I know several people who were seasonal workers at Macy's that got full-time hours during the holidays and were invited back as part-time employees for the rest of the year. Take it from a former?college?drop out, sometimes you just need to take a step back and re-evaluate yourself.Yea I asked for more. The one week she was on vacation and didn't make the schedule I got 32 hours, but then when she got back she sent me home 6 hours early to cut hours because the manager who made the schedule went over on the hours. Most of the seasonal help was only getting 4-8 hours a week. Many of them quit showing up because of that. If you read on glassdoor and that it's common for macy's to do that. Give you hardly any hours except a couple weeks around Christmas.Also I know my degree is rotting because of it. As my entrepreneur teacher told us in class if you're making $8 an hour when you graduate college are you really getting a return on your?investment?And the Northern Tool job they were likely going to?fire?me anyways when my three month probation was up. Another guy who got hired the same day as me quit 2 weeks before I did because of the harassment. When I quit 3 more people quit that store. They hired someone but then they left too. I don't know how they ran that store with everyone quitting.Yep. Like I said when I left I noticed a bunch of job listings for the store I worked at so they either fired people or they quitted on them. They likely quit I think because the store was so short staffed. Our store manager used to make some of the women cashiers cry sometimes.Then when I was working there they started putting me on the sales floor BUT they were not paying me commission like the other sales associates but want me to do the same work as they did for less.I bet these managers drive their nice cars to?church?and sit in the pews on Sundays.?They really think it's okay to abuse other people and treat them like slaves.If someone doesn't "keep their head down", they target them as not a good fit. Don't make eye contact or they think you are a rebel.It's always great news to hear something happened to one of them. I have no mercy for them. They are truly demons.IF people keep going on with handing over urine samples, blood samples, their checkbook info, their hobbies, everything about them...to employers, we will lose more and more freedoms.?If you fear a boss will retaliate, if you confront them, then we will never stop this. That's why they are so emboldened. They think no one will ever try to take them down. It's only when the majority resist something, that it works. When you are the only one doing it, it's not that you are wrong."Just because you're the lone voice in the wilderness, it doesn't mean you're wrong." ~ GhandiIn reference to Leeann's situation I just think sometimes you got to get down in the mud and play dirty with these people, because in this economy and the corporate world nowadays people don't give a sh*t about anyone except for themselves.I had a buddy back in the late 90's who worked a used car lot and the owner's nephew, who was the manger, fired him because he was a better salesman then the nephew and making the nephew look lazy. Well he was pissed because he got fired, but instead of letting the nephew get away with it he got a big sign taped to a stick with the words "Shady?Business?Practices Here" and was standing on the side of the public road in front of the used car lot. It only took three days of that and the owner met with him and made things right.I remember asking him what he would have done if the owner would have never made things right and he was still there after two or three weeks on the side of the road....and he said he would've found another job eventually, but he would also have paid a homeless person to sit out there on the side of the road holding that sign for however long it took to hear from the owner.I think people think they have to be "nice".?They don't want to be like the people they abhor.?But they also don't want anyone thinking bad of them.But like you say, when it comes to survival, we have to fight.This nepotism is killing this nation. It ruins good people, it ruins the really bright and skilled people.?Nepotism is just a form of royalty. Royalty is just people with money. So even though we don't have royalty in the US, we do have rich people and people who have power, foisting this stuff on us.The corporate world is about dog eat dog, and they really buy into it, like it's some kind of religion. They believe they have to act that way. They live and breathe it. They believe they are superior, because they are cutthroat."In total, the report found $93 billion in lost wages.Jobs lost during the recession paid an average $61,637. As of 2014, jobs in the same sectors paid an average of $47,171 annually."big-government/2014/08/11/u-s-wages-down-23-since-2008/Remember, folks...they say wages are down 23% since 2008 but they were declining way before that too. Plus the cost of everything is sky-rocketing.I live in Ontario and just saw a new commercial on TV today. In the commercial someone leaves a dog all alone on a busy?city?street. Everyone comes up to pet it and pay attention to it (it's an experimental commercial). Then, it shows a homeless man on the same city street and shows how everyone just ignores him and keeps walking. Maybe someone will post it on You Tube soon.I've seen stuff like that.?I once saw a guy on a freeway ramp and I gave him some?food?I had in the car.?People just drive by, because they think if that person really wanted a job, they'd have one. What they don't get is...once that person is homeless, doesn't have an address, can't take a bath, etc., they become unemployable.How did things EVER get to where we have to depend THIS MUCH on others for survival??Why did people stop growing their own food and move to the cities during the?Industrial?Revolution??They had less living on farms, but they had a better quality of life.Now that we have to depend on having money, rather than making or growing things, no job means no money.No money means no food or home.what do you guys think about when it comes to temp to hire!Get it in writing from the Temp agency, if they can not give it to you in writing, then don't pursue the job. Just depends. I always ask for it in writing and if they even hesitate then that is a sign that the job assignment is more than likely only a month or less even though they Will tell you it's 6 months or longer.So I read the United States is going to be letting in Syrian refugees?? The worry is some of them can be in ISIS. So yep bring in more people to compete for the few jobs there are! It's getting harder to even find a part-time low end service job now.Yep, more people to compete for jobs. I don't get it, we have all of this focus on security but then they let them in. What are the odds even one is going to be a problem? Who makes these decisions? It's not rational.In addition to that and the President's?executive?order that might give millions of illegals green cards to work and social security benefits...then why not just move to another country because it seems like this one is going?downhill fastHe is also giving them the privilege to vote, based on some weird technicality.?I don't know of any country, where I could go and get the same rights as citizens, get free?healthcare, free?college,?food?stamps, welfare, and be able to vote. Also, what nation could you go to, and make demands? Like demanding everyone speak English? Where would we be able to do that?Something is rotten in Denmark.Yep, more people to compete for jobs. I don't get it, we have all of this focus on security but then they let them in. What are the odds even one is going to be a problem? Who makes these decisions? It's not rational.True. At worse someone could lose their neck like Lee Rigby in London did in a random attack, or some other cruel death ISIS could think of on random people.Who makes the decisions? Obama! However this has been going on for YEARS under all presidents letting people in from other countries. Not just Obama to blame.The immigration act of 1965 is a big reason why.They want to ruin the US. That is so obvious now.?Everything opposite is being done.?It is sad, all of the people who died for this nation.?The Revolutionary War, where they died because they believed in something greater.?Now, look at this place.I'm not entirely positive I heard a particular "news" story correctly, but here goes...... a few minutes ago, I believe the "news" claimed that some people want Obama's immigration act to pass to "afford them their rights" or to that effect.My gut response: jaw drops to the floor while thinking "REALLY???? An illegal alien has RIGHTS other than to get promptly deported??????"I think I heard the following idea somewhere a few years ago. Perhaps us supposedly?legal?residents of this country could move to and become Mexican citizens.... then sneak back across the border to this country and be afforded all the rights that we want and need (and have been taken away from us)........'m not entirely positive I heard a particular "news" story correctly, but here goes...... a few minutes ago, I believe the "news" claimed that some people want Obama's immigration act to pass to "afford them their rights" or to that effect.My gut response: jaw drops to the floor while thinking "REALLY???? An illegal alien has RIGHTS other than to get promptly deported??????"What about our rights??What about us having to work and pay taxes to support them??Despite what they say about them coming here to work, I read in Texas, alone, over 70% of them are on welfare. That's just welfare, not includingfood?stamps, free?healthcare, including every baby born..., free?college?for their kids, and more.Someone once uncovered and it was on the news in Arizona, how thousands of dollars were going to Mexico every month in the form of Social Security taxes. Have a baby here, go back, get free money.None of us are doing very well. The liberalized idea of giving this nation "back to them" is just wrong. Every land is a conquered land. They have their own nation. It has great natural resources including oil. Theirgovernment?is corrupt, oh, like ours.But it's easier to come here and get so much free. Even if they work, they get money because their pay is low. It's all put on the backs of the taxpayer. The businesses don't have to pay for healthcare, because they qualify for Medicaid. I'd like to know how illegals can qualify for all of these things. Medicaid, Social Security, et al., were designed for us, and not to be abused.The whole Dream Act was supposed to aid the kids of illegals. If our parents did things that didn't benefit us, no one tried to fix that. We suffered for it. Why should they be rewarded for their parents crossing the border? Saying it's "not their fault" shouldn't matter. The American Taxpayer doesn't get free college, neither should noncitizens.I think I heard the following idea somewhere a few years ago. Perhaps us supposedly?legal?residents of this country could move to and become Mexican citizens.... then sneak back across the border to this country and be afforded all the rights that we want and need (and have been taken away from us)........Just shows what is going on. Saw a You Tube movie where they were throwing rocks at our Border Patrol. The Border Patrol were not allowed to point weapons or?fire?at them. The big crowd was bold, and you could tell they had NO fear of our Border guards. Not at all. They rushed at them.There are signs near the border that tell US Citizens not to come in these areas---of the United States. That they are dangerous. Why? Drug cartels and other criminal activity.Until Americans want to face up and see how crime and "immigration" increase together, nothing will change, because people want to be "nice" and play we are all one big world family. Well there is always people looking to take what you have. Especially if they can't make it themselves.So I read the United States is going to be letting in Syrian refugees?? The worry is some of them can be in ISIS. So yep bring in more people to compete for the few jobs there are! It's getting harder to even find a part-time low end service job now.Obama is going to be throwing everyone under the bus. Letting in Syrian refugees!!!! Seriously, we have enough homeless people in our countries.Obamma is just the front man.?What is scary is what we don't know.Dude. I am all in favor of leaving the country for better opportunity. All of our ancestors did.?Economy here is only gonna get worse.Our ancestors didn't put people in cages, set them on?fire, then post in on the internet. Our ancestors didn't have to worry about Taleo either.Maybe the internet has destroyed us, too much info that I would rather not know about.Dude. I am all in favor of leaving the country for better opportunity. All of our ancestors did.?Economy here is only gonna get worse.Yes, I think about that too.?There will be a serious brain-drain here in the US.?People who are smart and have something to offer are going to get sick and tired of being slaves for the?government?to milk for it's coffers.Why would you move to CA from NC? CA is about the worse place to look for a job right now!I'm sure they would be able to find an illegal to answer the phones in CA since after all it seems you have to know Spanish in many states now.I've gotten yelled at by "them" because I don't speak espanol.?How wrong is that??How much more entitlement are we going to give them?I am in my country.?I get tired of people saying we don't have a national language.?We do, but the idiots want to pretend we don't.?Pretty soon everything will be in two, three, four languages.If English isn't the language of the US, how come the laws are written in English??How come the history is written in English?Well, look at NYC...so many languages spoken there. How does that unite everyone?What's with the big "Melting Pot" where not everyone is communicating?Why do WE have to be?bilingual?If I moved to France or Japan, I'd learn their language. I wouldn't put my hands on my hips and yell at people and look them up and down and ask why they don't know my language.Why would you move to CA from NC? CA is about the worse place to look for a job right now!I'm sure they would be able to find an illegal to answer the phones in CA since after all it seems you have to know Spanish in many states now.I know RIGHT...?CALIFORNIA the place of dreams?I have family here so it was what made sense at the time all part of the healing and growing process and NC was even worse?Sometimes 3000 miles doesnt make a difference?I just have seen bottom and I refuse to stay thereWhat the h*** is wrong with our countries. Why are we going backwards? Might as well become crack dealers at this point. How the heck are we going to get a decent living wage when things keep getting worse?It's the same thing repeated over and over in history.?The rich/royalty/politicians are in charge.?The Founding Fathers of this country were rich, but they had a hugeinvestment?in making it into a good place. They knew about what had gone down in Europe, and they didn't want that here. George Washington turned down a crown.?They were already rich, so they wanted to do something good.?There were a lot of men like that long ago.?Isaac Newton spent his time figuring things out.Some rich people do some neat things, but a lot of them now, are just idle and hedonistic.CA has like the highest illegal immigration rate in the country being it's so Cooke to the border...all it takes is a hop skip and jump your an American given benefits and a job. I do not judge or am one to comment on any one trying to pursue a dream by to leave those that have dedicated their lives being born here and trying to live out their constitutional given rights on the back burner blows my mind... what I have a problem with is employers requiring you to speak a second language... I know enough Spanish to get by but I'm not certified and am not flawless speaking it... (I grew up in the south and excel at the language of the country folk) but this is why they have language lines with trained and certified translators who got their degree made it their career and get paid to do so...employers just don't want to pay...We wouldn't need "translators" or "bilingual" if we weren't invaded by people coming here illegally, period. It's not even the point that they won't learn English.?It's the whole being invaded thing.If we have to learn a third world language now, that pretty much sums up our future. Employers are also requested you speak Spanish up here in Canada.Why do they want you to learn Spanish??I would think?French?would be more applicable??Are they going to import 20 million illegals, too, and give them all free rides?It's always the most clueless people who say there are jobs in healthcare.?Funny how the people in it, know better.Funny how he thinks there are jobs in IT, too.Dr. Phil thinks he is smarter than everyone else.I call "emperor's new clothes" on him.Just think, when he writes a book, say it sells for $10.00...and just a million people buy it, that's $10 million dollars for him and his publisher.True. Look at the farce of a book Hillary wrote and sold horribly. She still got a lot of $$ upfront.Dr. Phil every couple of months does these shows. Yes some are very lazy like the 24 yr old living in the basement and wizzing in bottles, but most are not. Like one 23 yr old on there was going to?college?and wants to be anengineer, bright kid but he works about 12 hours a week and his mom wants him to basically work all the time. That is NOT a lazy young adult.Engineering?is hard and not liberal arts type bs classes. Dr. Phils son went to college but never really worked and now tours for his band.How often do you guys check for job listings each day? As I've said before things seemed to have dried up since last Dec. If I check them more than once a day it's like going in loops just seeing the same jobs posted that are not in my field or that I'm qualified for. If you check three times a day it doesn't change. Since the jobs have dried up it takes about 10 minutes in the morning to check Craigslist and then indeed for new job postings. It drives me nuts.Lately, I hardly check once a week; there's just nothing to look at.If we have to learn a third world language now, that pretty much sums up our future. Employers are also requested you speak Spanish up here in Canada.Funny, in the Maine tourist traps, they request we speak?French?Canadian! But at least the Canadians are propping up Maine's economy, not crushing it.I have a job now.. Else I wouldn't have internet and electricity.. Those cost money..I just think it's annoying how, especially Americans, get up on their little soap boxes only when THEY are individually inconvenienced.. The second someone gives them their cookie they are oblivious and even hostile..It's like some sociopath cycle.. When you're low you're "the people" when you're high f' everyone else.. It's why nothing gets fixed and employers can use third world management tactics..Thank you, xboxer, for noting that if you do, your job too well, clearly you are aware of what's going on @ the job site, & actually are perceived a threat by coworkers or the bosses cutting corners if not downright inept. YOU will get blacklisted once you raise an eyebrow once too often. A previous boss also spread so mich personal slander about me that a reference told me it took her an hour & a half to convince another manager that I am not the person described w/in the career. Happened to a paralegal friend of mine, too. Most two year degrees in an ancillary profession seems to lead to this situation. I shudder for anyone falling for the con job about pay& expectations in ancillary veterinary, technicians or assistants. We were woefully misled inmthe 1980s/1990s. Wish I could help.You're welcome. I think a lot of fields are this way now. Most of our jobs have way too many people in them, and still going to school for them. Employers are having far too much fun trying to figure out who they can bestow the honor of a job upon.Some of the work drama is so bad. I can't imagine it getting any worse!I've found this to be true also........working a temp job, the full timers are fighting among themselves over nonsense but hey here is someone at the bottom of the?food?chain (the temp)...let get at her!......The temp becomes the scapegoat while being responsible for a lot of things and having to learn the whole freakin job knowing she will never be hired at a decent wage. Feelin festive today........:)I just got off the phone with a recruiter from a temp agency. It didn't go that well....According to her, an?entry-level position requires experience outside of classes. So, how does one get this so-called "experience" without having experience? She suggested internships, but not many companies out there do not encourage those who have graduated to apply. Volunteer? I don't think many companies have (or even allow) volunteers for?lab technicianpositions.*buries herself in her blankets*It's the new thing. You can't get a job through a temp agency if you're still in school. You're not primed goods. You're a product that's basically still in?development?so you're not worth squat until you have that paper. To be honest, you still won't have experience but the degree matters that much more suddenly.I graduated a while back....and I have two expensive pieces of paper that mean squat.Getting an?internship?was impossible during my undergraduate days because of the time constraint and the fact I switched majors. Graduate era? Things didn't work out....And today started off as an awesome day....I graduated a while back....and I have two expensive pieces of paper that mean squat.Getting an?internship?was impossible during my undergraduate days because of the time constraint and the fact I switched majors. Graduate era? Things didn't work out....And today started off as an awesome day....Same here. I got a degree and over 40000 in debt and nothing to show. The degree might as well be a piece of toilet paper.We never see the govt talk about this.?They are giving away free?college?to the oddly named "dreamers", illegals's kids.?Imagine what that will do.That seems to be the case with a lot of companies now. They expect people to come in knowing everything because they're too lazy or clueless to train people properly. I walked out of 2 jobs last summer for that very reason. It's really a horrible system.That's why I asked so many questions at this interview. But you really don't know what things are going to be like until you start working at a new job.Exactly. And much of the time the job is totally different than what it was advertised or described to be. One of the jobs I walked out of last year was a?customer service/sales position that was advertised as?administrative. What? o.OToday I saw an ad on craigslist for OfficeMax/Depot?hiring?near my house. The starting pay says $7.65!When I got hired in 2009 I got hired at $8 an hour! Something is wrong here.They will just keep lowering pay because companies KNOW there is no economic recovery.?Only CNN and MSNBC believe that one.When Bush was president and Republicnas controlled both houses wages paid more. Didn't have a problem in 00-09 finding jobs. Of course in 2009 it got harder but nowhere near like now.Aren't you like 24 years old? What do you even know about the early 2000s? Under Bush, we lost an incredible amount of jobs. And the recession began in 2007, not 2009. Stop tying Obama to this mess. You're another right wing nut who wants to blame everything on liberals and immigrants. Face it, huge corporations are hoarding cash and not reinvesting (hiring.) Lay the blame where it firmly belongs, with conscience-less corporations.I'm older than 24. Still was easier for me to get interviews back then. Even then didn't have to fight rude?HR, managers, TALEO, Brassring nearly as much now and usually got phone calls back more often. It seems around 2011 is when it got super tough. This trolls probably is a plant by the Democrats just like that lady at the State of The Union was.Aren't you like 24 years old? What do you even know about the early 2000s? Under Bush, we lost an incredible amount of jobs. And the recession began in 2007, not 2009. Stop tying Obama to this mess. You're another right wing nut who wants to blame everything on liberals and immigrants. Face it, huge corporations are hoarding cash and not reinvesting (hiring.) Lay the blame where it firmly belongs, with conscience-less corporations.Exactly how many jobs were lost? More jobs have been created under Obama but most of them are part-time. You can also say the the recession started in 2007 (December of 2007) but the boat was being commanded by "Admiral Obama". You can't blame Bush for 1 month when 17 out of 18 months was under Obama (if you believe the recession ended in June of 2009). I was not a fan of many of the Bush policies. Even believed in 2008 that Sen. Obama would change things for the better. I never considered it was for the better of socialism in the US. Obama is just another liar who, as Michael Moore said, "will only be remembered as the first black president". As for corporations hoarding cash... It's better for them to keep foreign profits overseas to "legally" avoid paying the 40% US tax to repatriate that money. Wouldn't you agree? I've been unemployed for 4+ years... Reading up on the tax code and how it affects me and my family is how I have spent some of my time... I really believe a flat tax rate is what the U.S. should do. Everyone pays the same % regardless of how much they make and there are no deductions. That way, rich or poor, everyone has "skin in the game".If the part-time jobs were not bad enough, another thing I noticed with these jobs is many of them will only give you about 5 hours a week unless it's black Friday or week before Christmas.Most of the retail jobs now warn you at the interview you might get as little as 5 hours a week and as much as 20 hours per week.Macy's loves doing that. When I worked there for seasonal last year most of the part-time and seasonal help was only getting 4-6 hours per week at the most. Most just ended up quitting. I guess that is the explosive job growth Obama talks about.Wait till you see what it's like at soup kitchens and welfare centers.. That's if you actually have to work and aren't on this site just to pass time and waste others time..Not sure what your point is, but I do volunteer work at soup kitchens as well as feed the homeless every pay day. I have compassion for people. You asked a question and I jokingly answered it in spanish.?Many of us here have applied for work at a?fast food?place and have been turned down due to being over qualified.I saw this article on today:"How an Undocumented Immigrant From Mexico Became a Star at Goldman Sachs" -?news/articles/2015-02-25/how-an-undocumented-immigrant-from-mexico-became-a-star-at-goldman-sachsClearly companies are?hiring?illegal immigrants from?farm?workers all the way up to at least one Vice President at a major?financial?institution.Both sets of of my grandparents immigrated to the USA and went through the painstaking process of becoming US citizens. There is absolutely no reason to reward those people who feel they have the right to cut in line.It is clear none of our political leaders will do nothing to stop illegal immigrants from taking American jobs. Politicians seem to be either directly working against the American people or dragging their heels and doing nothing.Wall Street is a whole bunch of crooks in?general.I just had someone tell me about someone they know who has their ownbusiness?on the side and is doing quite well, as if to refute what I say about what's happening to me.?They are always the top manager types, who are sheltered from what we are experiencing.?I asked him how one success story invalidates what is happening to me.These people who have it good will discredit us, rather than see the whole thing is coming down.?It's much easier to blame an individual and dismiss them, than to see what is really going on.?These are the people who think their hard work got them where they are.Everyone's too scared to stand up to it. Some had better situations to sneak a snack too. But no one wanted to complain in fear of their job. They could be replaced with someone who wouldn't care if they didn't get lunch. b?It's worse when you work 10 or 12 hours. You miss meals and when everyone is going home to dinner at 5, you're still working and working.Yep, at my terrible job we were promised a lunch break. They got mad when I'd take it. No matter what. And then they said I needed to be working so that by the time my shift began, I was deep in work. I didn't argue with her because I was so scared. So no only was I working 2 additional hours (10 hours a day), I had no lunch break, or would eat at my desk while working.Stand up to these policies - employers are getting away with it because we ALLOW them to! And if you get canned, wtfever. There's a better job out there for you (the op). I wish I stood up to my terrible employers when I was at the job. And people should be taking lunch breaks anyway, so take 'em if you can! Nothing messes with your mental?health?more than not taking some time out of your day for yourself.Everyone's too scared to stand up to it. Some had better situations to sneak a snack too. But no one wanted to complain in fear of their job. They could be replaced with someone who wouldn't care if they didn't get lunch. b?It's worse when you work 10 or 12 hours. You miss meals and when everyone is going home to dinner at 5, you're still working and working.Its against the?law. Lunch and breaks are law not "company policy".Years ago, I was a?bank teller?and they were doing things like this. One day, none of the workers showed up. The?bank?had to remain closed due to "unforeseen emergency".The husbands of most of us, got fed up and made their wives stay at home. The Big Shots found out about it and that ended that "policy". If its a staffing problem, make upper management deal with it.I think that recruiters @ agencies have a quota system to fill, so they collect job seekers by enticing ads for non existent jobs. Have signed up w/agencies this past year; the one that got me a job still owes me $, an explanation (deducted 44070?city?taxes when I was working in 44130), & an apology for false report(s) to the ODJFS that impeded my remaining unemployment claim for a week.?Really clueless operation.They will just keep lowering pay because companies KNOW there is no economic recovery.?Only CNN and MSNBC believe that one.& then the news is Walmart & TJ Max have raised their base pay/minimum employee wage like it's some triumph (2/2015). Those companies will hire fewer people, & everyone will do more work. If I got a dime raise as a vet tech, I worked more constantly. Oh, & a half hour lunch was an automatic pay deduction daily even if we were always so overbooked/understaffed that few people could ever take a lunch break.I didn't go to?college?just to live back with my dysfunctional family who emotionally abuse me every day. I KNOW I'm not that difficult to place in the workforce. Then why, why, WHY, is it this difficult to find a full-time or even part-time job? Sure I've had a handful of seasonal and temp jobs during the 4 years looking. I was even lucky enough to get a seasonal position at a place where [insert company's name] gave me a diversity scholarship for college and how I showed leadership potential in my?community?, and I STILL didn't get kept on after the holidays; And yes, I DID hustle my butt off during my time there. I'm pretty sure funding my?education?wasn't for me to wind-up back in the cruddy position I'm in now.The education system is a racket that supports itself more than the students hoping to get training & help w/careers. So many people study for the same jobs, all competitors, through "store front" training colleges. We got conned into false expectations as veterinary technicians; apparently, the con goes on, judging by the ads I see for vet assistants/techs, etc. which also woefully misrepresent what is a total immersion in MEDICINE, from anesthesiology through surgery to pharmacy &?laboratory?science. Has very little to do w/"do you like animals"?I think that recruiters @ agencies have a quota system to fill, so they collect job seekers by enticing ads for non existent jobs. Have signed up w/agencies this past year; the one that got me a job still owes me $, an explanation (deducted 44070?city?taxes when I was working in 44130), & an apology for false report(s) to the ODJFS that impeded my remaining unemployment claim for a week.?Really clueless operation.While working a temp job in the Northeast, I happened to overhear my boss (two cubicles over) speaking with Accountemps about an open position in our office. He told Accountemps the position was going to be moved to Ohio and the manager was planning on?hiring?someone from Ohio. Furthermore, the job description specifically stated, "no recruiters." That Friday, I received a broadcast message from Accountemps of all the so-called "open" positions and the open position was erroneously posted with our office location. I pointed it out to my boss and he said, "The original job posting says NO recruiters." He sent me the link of the job posting from an internet search and we noticed the Accountemps in Ohio had also posted the same open job but with the company's Ohio location.So that would be at least two open jobs that would show up in two different states, while no real job existed! The job postings remained up even months after the company had already hired someone for the position.You have to wonder how many of these open positions really exist.I've seen some major corporations having preferences in?hiring?out-of-state or out-of-country because they want cheap?labor. The residents here...well...we know better! Hopefully, the cheap labor realizes how much it is to move and live in California before committing to the job.I do get it. There were customers who get something faulty and then tried to fix it until they're ticked off. Then they'd callcustomer's service (without cooling off), just to be stuck on the phone for ages...when it was really a 5 min wait. So, you're ticked off and drove all your anger on the random person who helped you. I get it....But, you do know that customer's service is made up of real human beings with real feelings, right? It's not their fault that you have problems, but they're there to help you out the best they can (or pass you onto a manager). If you really want to relay the fault, then blame the company itself (or even the manager).I also get it that there are really bad apples in customer's service. The customer's service blames YOU for whatever your problem is. I've actually had that happened to me once, and in the end, it was a flaw on their end.No you don't get it. I DIDN'T have something "faulty" and tried to fix it myself till I got ticked off. I called with a legitimate complaint and got crap from a foreigner, to whom I had to repeat the problem 3 times. I truly WAS NOT ANGRY when I started the conversation, because I KNEW I was right and expected the "customer service" person to fix the problem. He didn't. Put me on SEVERAL holds, supposedly?consulting?his boss, and then when I asked for that boss, he put me on hold indefinitely. Bad foreign apple, taking an American job, where understanding the problem is key. Whoever rendered the satisfaction obviously got it.Rent a movie called "Outsourced". I worked for a major?hotel's reservation center until it was outsourced to India.The problem with Indian call centers is that they are not JUST your?bank, your phone company or your?airline. They handle everybody. One phone call and they are looking at your phone bill, the next phone call is a JC Penny return, the next one they are selling cigarettes, on and on. LOL!No you don't get it. I DIDN'T have something "faulty" and tried to fix it myself till I got ticked off. I called with a legitimate complaint and got crap from a foreigner, to whom I had to repeat the problem 3 times. I truly WAS NOT ANGRY when I started the conversation, because I KNEW I was right and expected the "customer service" person to fix the problem. He didn't. Put me on SEVERAL holds, supposedly?consulting?his boss, and then when I asked for that boss, he put me on hold indefinitely. Bad foreign apple, taking an American job, where understanding the problem is key. Whoever rendered the satisfaction obviously got it.The foreign ones are just like some kind of a joke.?I had to find my own answer too.?They really don't care if they lose your?business.?Remember how Sprint unloaded thousands of customers because they "complained too much"??It's obvious when someone calls back over and over, they didn't get their problem fixed.I'm 29 living at home with my grandmother..I can't even move out because I can't afford it..at this rate, I'll never have a life. I guess I shouldn't plan on having kids either..I am also sick of signing up with all these so called "employment agencies" or "staffing agencies", which post jobs that I am clearly qualified for based on the requirements in the ad, signing up with the agency, being called in for an interview with the agency, getting all dressed up, gassing up the car, etc..Showing up to the interview only to hear not one PEEP about the particular job that I applied for, but just given an "onboarding" packet, filling in highly personal info (social security number,?driver's license number, permission to do acredit/background check) and then handed a?business?card with the staffing agencies phone number and told to check in weekly to let them know that I am still unemployed and looking....uh, thanks? What happened to the "position" that I applied for in the first place??I am starting to think that these jobs don't actually exist, but these staffing firms are only trying to build up their available worker pool or something. This is the classic bait and switch move. I know that we are not purchasing anything, but I am pretty sure that these places are under the gun by their corporate headquarters to pad the rolls as much as they can, or they will be shut down. Also, this is pretty evident when you pull up to the place and there is a bright red banner out front that says..."NOWHIRING!", or you have the guy with the sandwich board out there dancing around.Oh, and I don't need anymore tips, clinics, classes, seminars, etc....ON HOW TO APPLY FOR A JOB, PREPARE A RESUME, INTERVIEW TIPS, ETC....I am an educated person who is well schooled in this area, thank you!!You are exactly correct about the bait and switch. They post fake jobs to get you in and signed up to pad their databases. Waste. Of. Time.Let's face it folks, as much as they say the economy is improving....yeah right....there is still a glutton of job seekers and it is an EMPLOYERS market where they have literally hit THE MOTHER LODE of applicants. Companies have the luxury of weeding out people that they feel aren't quite the right fit, aren't young enough, aren't pretty enough, too short, too fat, too tall, hair style isn't right, too many zits, spotted a wrinkle on their blazer, spotted a speck of lint on their shoes, did graduate with honors from Harvard, but not Magna Cum Laude, or wasn't in the right sorority/fraternity....all for a part time job at Dollar?General...it goes on and on unfortunately.I am actually looking into starting my own new home?construction/housecleaning?business....just researching the hoops that I have to jump through.I saw on the news Target is cutting thousands of jobs. Even min wage jobs are being cut now. Means even less jobs.Even back in 2008 to 2010 it was a lot easier to find jobs even though. Yea the "official" unemployment was higher, but by real numbers less people were still out of work. Now you have long term unemployed thrown in too.2008 and before it was super easy to find a job. You walked in and applied. In 2006 the job I got at the?bank?I just walked in in street clothes to get an app and they basically interviewed me on the spot. No TALEO, Brassring, Kronos, etc. to deal with.Now everyone uses those programs in order to make it almost impossible to get hired.The economy isn't getting better, it's collapsing.It won't totally collapse. There are still people with money who are buying cars and going to resorts, etc.?But a lot of us are going down.?There isn't enough to support this huge population in the US now. You can't support 400 million people with service sector jobs. We don't make anything anymore. And the govt is bringing in millions of people on top of this.The politicians denounce things, but they NEVER do a thing. They've abandoned us for foreigners.This economy is forcing the lowest (income wise) members of society to reshape their definition of success and basically go into survival mode. The rich are indeed getting richer, and the middle class is disappearing and filtering down into the lower class. God BLESS America. If I could I'd move to another country.Prior to The?Industrial?Revolution, you only had two classes of people: The Upper Class and the Lower Class. The Upper Class were noted for their ties to their heritage and usually their land, hence the term: Land Lord. The Lower Classes were defined by the absence of it. Even in this country, there was a time when a person without property could not vote. With the loss of manufacturing, we made be returning to this type of Feudalism.This economy is forcing the lowest (income wise) members of society to reshape their definition of success and basically go into survival mode. The rich are indeed getting richer, and the middle class is disappearing and filtering down into the lower class. God BLESS America. If I could I'd move to another country.I am 100% with you. Actually been debating taking the rest of my tax return and hopping a plane to Europe. There are at least a few countries there with lower populations and better economies (albeit slightly) where I know the language and could get by. It crosses my mind daily.I've been filling out applications for the past two months and one thing I thought about today is why do ALL applications have the diversity screening where a candidate puts Latino or NOT Latino. Can someone just let me know..? I'm just curious.I wondered too... but I think it's for reporting. You can't put you're "white AND hispanic." You are either hispanic or you're not. You can't even be mixed and hispanic. Weirdest thing ever.Under Teddy Roosevelt, very long ago, it was decided that Mexicans are White (Caucasian).?It was to allow Mexicans free?entry?into the United States.The term, "Mexican" was eliminated and replaced with "White" and later, "Hispanic". Some have Spanish blood, but the majority are Amerinds, or American Indians, or Native American, whichever term you choose... Amerinds are basically Asian in origin. Their ancestors crossed the Bering Strait (and/or migrated here via ships) according to pre-Clovis history. The Spanish did not mate with all of the Indians, some, but not all of course. And, they didn't keep mating with them since 1492...The?government?has it all wrong on "Ethnicity".?But they do this on purpose to allow certain things to happen.?Hispanic is only an "ethnicity" with those from Spain, the Iberian peninsula, or their descendants.True Spanish or Portuguese are Caucasian.Speaking Spanish or having a Spanish last name doesn't make anyone "Hispanic".There is a huge faction in the US that wants to "give back" North America to the Indians.?People think there aren't that many Indians around, but there are. Most Mexicans are Indians, and so are the peoples of Central America and some of South America.That's why they are being let in, given things you and I cannot get.?For example, when they go to?college, they get living expense money, you and I don't "qualify" for it. If people would really investigate this, they'd see where their tax dollars go. They get free?healthcare, you and I don't get. Mexicans have a nation. It is rich in resources and other wealth.People think it's "racist" to explore this, as if any group is truly beyond reproach.?It's a way to keep dissent down, and if you buy into that, you're basically giving up your right as a citizen to keep this nation for your own descendants.A good source:en.wiki/Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States_CensusThis economy is forcing the lowest (income wise) members of society to reshape their definition of success and basically go into survival mode. The rich are indeed getting richer, and the middle class is disappearing and filtering down into the lower class. God BLESS America. If I could I'd move to another country.Yeah, proof of the rich getting richer is that 17 out of the top 20 richest billionaires made more money this year than they did last. I wonder how come that is??The online applications: I simply cant do them at this point. Not the incredibly long with personality tests thrown in type. My brain is toast too. I dont think this is unusual considering what we have been through. I am always thinking of alternative solutions to the 8 to 5 job I expected.I hear that! For a bleeping temp job, a company had me take several tests. The temp agency told me I had to take a short personality test. After I finished the 200 question (yes, really) personality test, a window popped up and stated that I would be moving on to the math test. I ended up doing another 100 something questions of SAT style math. The company said I did really well on the test but they still didn't hire me.Also I hate how these "experts" say use your colleges career center. The school I graduated from on the website they use that is part of some network colleges use to post jobs, most of the jobs are the same jobs I see listed on places like indeed and monster that I've already saw. Colleges don't care about you once you graduate and they're not longer getting $$ from you. Besides the?college?I went to most of them working in there giving resume "tips" and interviewing skills advice are graduate students with the same degree I have.Right now unless you are underemployed or in total hell at your current job I wouldn't attempt looking for a new job.this is why people just stay in underemployed or horrible jobs for 40 years, because it's easier than looking. I have no vacation days until after 6 months so if I take off I will get docked. I am trying my best to make my next move be something more stable. I would like longevity again. I am becoming a job hopper again. There is NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING out there!Even 9-5 hours including lunch are fading as they are all 8-5, 9-6, 8:30-5 or 8:30--5:30. They just want to work you to the bone. I'm tired of seeing these hours and 9 jobs in 1. Thats why you can't find anything because these people do things like erase the?accounting?dept and make the?file clerk?do it. To many people and not enough jobs.i never understoond how employed people are able to find the time to prepare for an interview then find the time to go on them while they are working a stressful ft job.I just had an argument with a relative over me still being unemployed. He thinks I still don't have a job because I'm not willing to settle for retail or?fast food. I told him even they tell me I'm overqualified or reject me because of my employment gap. He then told me I just need to explain to them why I haven't been working for so long. I'd love to!... if I can get past the screening process and talk to someone!What's amazing is every employed person I've talked to about being unemployed basically just tells me it's my fault. It probably is, because at this point I'm just depressed and it shows in what few interviews I get.Might want to leave your degree off the apps for low paying jobs. I have my degree and GPA listed and I'm shocked the hardware store is?hiring?me and not saying I'm too educated. Ive had employers say that before.From here, you can bring money in and look for something better, or try to start your own?business. Wish you best of luck!What kills me is people really don't care about these kinds of explanations either way. In my experience, people will agree that the job market is terrible (just to pretend they're really listening to you) and then go on a rant about pulling up your bootstraps. As if wanting a job is all it takes to get a job!They don't get it until it happens to them. How all their connections aren't there anymore. How their expertise and experience are not valued.?How there are so many people applying to the same job.?The form letters, the instant rejections.I once got told, "Well, isn't something better than nothing?" meaning a low pay job is better than nothing, right??Well, it's not. If I can pay 2 of my 6 bills, instead of none of them, how is it better? I am still in the red.You should ask this relative what they want you to do. Tell them that you can't force someone to hire you, so what should you do, since you've done all you can to find a job.Very frustrating! Anyone who hasn't recently looked for a new job won't understand what it's like right now. I got a lot of rejections on low paying jobs saying I should apply to my own 'field'?Hmmm if I could get a?full time?job in my own field of work do they think I'd be applying for an $8 an hour job?! Seriously, the people on this board, that are or have been in the same boat understand where our famalies and 'friends' do not. Try not to let your family get to you, and when you are going in for an interview, go in with the feeling that you ARE the best person for that job- even if you're nervous as heck on the inside (who's not at an interview these days) take a deep breath and go into the interview with confidence knowing you are a hard worker and the company would benifit having you join them (never cocky, just confident;)They will probably tell you to call and call and keep calling, to show you are interested.Good advice for about 30 years ago.cLol. 30 years ago you sometimes got the job right in the interview with none of this we'll contact you in a few days (so we can see if we can get someone to work for even cheaper)Thanks, Cipht. It's true that this board and all of you have been a godsend. Nobody else seems to understand or simply is unwilling to understand because they want to look down on us.And yeah, it sucks when employers don't want to consider someone outside their field, as if transferable skills don't exist.I think Dr Phil complained about her too because she takes naps when she gets home from work sometimes.Wow, I used to do that. Getting up so early, a long commute, a long day, by the time you get home, you are tired just trying to stay up all day.It's like these guys in the media, who don't really work all that hard, are trying to squeeze people. Trying to make them feel guilty for not doing more and more and more.?Meanwhile, people come here to America and get right on the dole. Dr. Phil won't touch that. It's not PC to do that.Furniture?sales job that requires a Bachelor Degree??Clerical/office jobs that are actually?janitorial? Medical office jobs that require a degree in medical/physician's?assistant? Job descriptions that look like they are written w/the same excessive enthusiasm of most real estate ads (& are about as reliable)??Gotta be amused by ridiculous job offers based on ATS keyword searches that have nothing to do w/qualifications or work experience. & I guess NONE of these companies use any kind of map quest about actual job location & where an applicant lives even when directly indicated by job seeker (distance). Deep sigh.Prior to The?Industrial?Revolution, you only had two classes of people: The Upper Class and the Lower Class. The Upper Class were noted for their ties to their heritage and usually their land, hence the term: Land Lord. The Lower Classes were defined by the absence of it. Even in this country, there was a time when a person without property could not vote. With the loss of manufacturing, we made be returning to this type of Feudalism.HL Mencken wrote an article about the "robber baron" mentality in America (modern version; I've got mine & up yours) & compared it to the concept of "noblesse oblige" (sp?) in Europe @ that time, that those who were born into privilege OWED it to assist those who were not so fortunate. That was then. Now we've got tv shows where people congratulate themselves about the misfortune of others, like people who've lost homes (house flipping) or what few items those people (usually) tried to keep (storage locker auctions).Reliable information states that there are government paid incentives for certain companies to hire a certain "type" of person for a specific length of time. Of course, you have to feel for that "type" of person when the government "dowry" ends . . .I'd never would count on temp agencies. I think they're a bunch of liars. Also usually the assignment won't last nearly as long as they claim it will when you get hired.Temp agency recruiters seem to have a quota of sign ups. We were not told the last day of our assignment UNTIL the last day. I worked one extra week, then another extra week, then got a message that the assignment had ended & was told NOT to report to the work site again. Two weeks later, the temp agency told the ODJFS that I had "walked off the job" (I had reopened a remaining few weeks on my original unemployment claim). I got THAT misinformation cleared up. Thankfully, I still had their message on my answering machine. The agency actually contacted me about working the same job for the same company again months later. They still owe me $ from short time sheet(s), too. & deducted the incorrect?city?taxes from my paychecks. Clueless & incompetent?HL Mencken wrote an article about the "robber baron" mentality in America (modern version; I've got mine & up yours) & compared it to the concept of "noblesse oblige" (sp?) in Europe @ that time, that those who were born into privilege OWED it to assist those who were not so fortunate. That was then. Now we've got tv shows where people congratulate themselves about the misfortune of others, like people who've lost homes (house flipping) or what few items those people (usually) tried to keep (storage locker auctions).I thought that about those home shows too. I haven't had?cable?TV, but have seen ads for them. The people are more than cheery about getting someone's lost home.?People just smile and say, "Well, it's all?business, you know?" like anything is justified. It mortifies me.The sudden death in the family and the void left in the aftermath are much worse than the death camp at work. I relate the drowning dream a little more so to that than to work, but work is bad and only exacerbates things. It could actually be exacerbated the other way around. It's two extremely stressful situations and at home and work, and it's all really taken a serious toll.Parafreegal, I am so sorry for your loss.?I've lost a couple of family members in the past few years myself and with one boss I was actually told to 'leave my personal life at home' when I was having some difficulty keeping up the pace at work (I was sleeping about 2 hours a night and tried to explain that to her) but she couldn't have cared less. More recently in 2013 I lost my mom in a car accident so it was completely unexpected- that time (different boss mind you) sent me a text message only 2 HOURS after her funeral asking me to come back to work the very next day.?Neither of those working environments were very healthy at the time for me as well, so I completely understand when you say you feel like you can't escape the stress of both your loss of a family member and the stress of work both wearing you down at the same time, I know I started to feel like I couldn't breathe and was having such terrible anxiety and nightmares also. I finally went to my doctor and explained to him what was going on and for a short time had to go on anxiety medication to deal with it all. You may not need to do that, but if you begin to feel as though you just can't handle it anymore and you have a doctor it is worthwhile to mention it to him/her. I took the medication for only about a month, just long enough to be able to get some rest and stop myself from literally losing it.Reliable information states that there are?government?paid incentives for certain companies to hire a certain "type" of person for a specific length of time. Of course, you have to feel for that "type" of person when the government "dowry" ends . . .The government shouldn't be allowed to influence?hiring. But they do, and if a?business?does business with the government, and that's almost all of them, they have to.?No longer are your qualifications or experience going to get you the job. It's who you are.I think they are anywhere. Not very many requirements for those type of jobs and the pay seems to be decent, so a lot of people are throwing their resumes/applications at?admin?jobs.To get an admin job in Pa they want you to be proficient in Microsoft Word, Excel, Office,and a few other programs and spreadsheets that I don't know anything about- and the pay is around $10 an hour- oh and one place said they would have liked to have interviewed me (they didn't need all those programs) but they were requiring applicants to be able to speak Spanish, What the heck??Yeah, speaking Spanish seems to be the new thing, which is sort of sad for various reasons. I have a feeling in two years this won't be such a huge problem... if you catch my drift. :D?several elementary schools in the area now have spanish language immersion programs starting at kindergarden. This is NOT getting better. I think in 5+ yrs. or so it will be EXPECTED that EVERYONE is?bilingual spanish?and non spanish speakers will be looked down upon. I mean if they are teaching it in public schools with the goal of having students fluent by the time they graduate. I read of 2 schools who cut back on staff yet put money into the language immersion program where they actually teach ALL subjects in spanish. in my?city?over 1/2 the students in elementary school are hispanic anyways. I live next to an elementary school and when I look at the kids playing outside during recess it's like OMG, they are ALL brown skinned w dark hair. It is truly very depressing.I dont think the City is doing much for St. Pat's day. We used to have a large Irish population, now the hispanic and portugese centers are twice as big as the tiny Irish ctr. Several yrs ago I was at the?library?on St. Pat's day and went out to observe their little parade thru a mostly latino main st, was THAT an eye opener.I just can't wait til marking white non-latino on a job app will make it EASIER to get a job as part of AA. I think that day will come sooner than later tho it will take some doing, it won't happen on its own.To get an?admin?job in Pa they want you to be proficient in Microsoft Word, Excel, Office,and a few other programs and spreadsheets that I don't know anything about- and the pay is around $10 an hour- oh and one place said they would have liked to have interviewed me (they didn't need all those programs) but they were requiring applicants to be able to speak Spanish, What the heck??I've had them send me to a temp agency for 2 hrs of testing just to see if i qualified...i no longer do that sort of thing. hire me or dont, based on the skills I have.I wont waste huge amounts of time on jobs i am not yet hired for. Every place here wants Spanish speaking, which i dont do.People are hopping on the bandwagon willfully.?Immigrants used to come here and learn English.?Now we have to learn their languages?People say this is a "trend", but it is seriously changing the demographics of the US.?It won't go back.?People think when another group is the majority, they will give them favorable status, the way that group was once helped. Don't hold your breath. Other groups aren't as altruistic. It's just a rationalizing perception to think it's going to be your turn.I deal with the non-English speaking every day. They get pissy with ME, if I make them repeat everything and spell their name. Here's the deal, if you have no interest in getting fluent in MY language in MY country, I have no interest in learning how to pronounce your damn NAME!I agree. I deal with that daily. They get mad if you're notbilingual. I don't get how anyone can come here, get on the gravy train and get everything free or cheap, and then expect us to speak their language too. It's all in reverse.If I went to another country, say Mexico, for example...I wouldn't expect them to speak English. Even if some did, I'd still be prepared to do some translation.Just wonder when enough is going to be enough.The citizens of this country are being treated like the end of the line.The company is a tech company and it said their pay is on the low side for Stl is one of the complaints. Of course the managers and executives as usual make $$$ while the hourly worker makes peanuts. That is how it is at most jobs. Clueless managers make good money and treat everyone below them like dirt.That's why I call it slavery."They" hire "us" to do the work.?They just are in charge and boss us around.That's why having your own?business?is good, because then you're the worker AND the boss.i think for most people searching for work for over a year you get to that point where you throw up your hands and say:"Hmm, the salary that they are offering is what i made 5 years ago BUT, after a yr of searching that looks pretty darn good! "Exactly! At this point I would take my salary from 5 years ago in a heartbeat just to get?full time?status with guaranteed hours- I have not found any employers willing to hire full time at any payrate and as I've posted before I've gone from 40 hours a week to 20 then 10 and now currently 6 hours a week as a part time worker. Everytime I turn around corporate is cutting hours again, and the hours that get cut are the part time people. Just how is anyone suppose to live like that?If you tell someone how hard it is finding a job, and they've never lost one, it's like you've suddenly entered the Twilight Zone. I even had one dude starting raving about how successful he's been, how he'd NEVER be laid off (he apparently became a fortune teller in that moment) and how it's all the lazy/bad workers who can't hack it. He even started laughing and I didn't bother continuing the conversation with him.It's really terrible how people don't get the fact that there IS a struggle out there to find/get a job, and the people who don't get it look down on those who are unemployed. It's not like it was even back in 2006. My sister constantly tells me how it used to be SO easy to get a job back in 2006/2007.. hell, even 2008. She said she used to WALK OFF jobs and get a new one the next day. Now she can't even get an?internship.It is true. 2008 it was still pretty easy to find a job. Even 2009 it was. It was NOTHING like it is today even for a part-time job. It seems the last 4 years but especially the last 2 years it Is it that many more people are out of work today than 4 years ago hence why it keeps getting harder? I saw an MSN Money article of people ages 16 and over how 46 percent are not working because people are too lazy. I agree to an extent some are not working because they can live off the gubermint but overall I think the true unemployment rate is over 20 percent, then you have probably another 20 percent under employed and working only part time.Dr. Phil says though that there are full-time jobs out there you can get if you need one. He told one guest work 50 hours a week and get two part-time jobs.I don't know the situation in other states, but between Florida and the Washington, DC, Maryland, etc area, it seems like they pay you what you are worth and for one skill particularly. Case in point..South Florida: for a?Graphic Design?position, you have to have 30 different skills sets ala, web?design, motion?graphics, photography, etc all in getting paid peanuts. From what I heard from a friend (who leaves in Maryland) in Washington, DC and Maryland, they pay you to be a?Graphic Designer?only (no html, coding, web, etc...), Web?Designer?only and Web Developer (no designing, strictly back end). Not sure how it is in other industries and other states but dang they sound strict in finding a candidate that's not a Jack-Of-All-Trades!I don't know much about this new chain, it's a step above Taco Bell whose?food?I liked. For someone who can't stand "those people" I sure love their food am actually having Goya black bean soup and rice for dinner later which I will further spice up with chipotle. Maybe i'll just go visit the restaurant and inquire about hours/pay & see what kind of reaction I get or maybe notBut that is the explosive job growth that Obama talked about during the State of the Union and the "roaring economy" he mentioned.If you did work there I'm sure you would be bullied and harassed a lot by the other workers and probably get all the gross jobs and all because you would be the token white girl.People keep trying to minimize what's happening to their country.?It's way too much to acknowledge what's going on, so they rationalize it away.?"It was inevitable" or "bound to happen", they say.?As if things can never be stopped, but they let others' wills get the way.Anyone who thinks we are in trouble is labeled "a conspiracy nut", so things have to get really bad before it's recognized and then it's too late.People are just so accepting of things. It's like someone getting slapped in the face over and over and just taking it.Any suggestions on what to do ??I listen to a spanish CD every morning on my drive to work, when I go to the local swap meet or mexican market I practice my spanish there as much as possible. Luckily for me my pronucion is on point and I always get compliments, but I have to say that it does sadden me when I read an ad for a job position that I know I am qualified for and the deal breaker is "Must speak Spanish". It seems like english is becoming the 2nd language here in California these days. Thank God I took spanish in high school but still, it just floors me how employers are making that request and then to top it off they offer minumum wage ? Oh well, sometimes a slap in a face can be a Wake Up Call. LOLAs long as people play the game, it will go on.English is only becoming a second language because thegovernment?no longer enforces the border.Truck driving used to be a good field with decent pay. Not anymore. I hear the pay is lower and a lot of the truck?driversare foreigners too now because they pay them a lot lower. Just like everything else.Same here. A lot of the jobs I see listed are commission sales jobs,?call center, or low paying retail. Nothing to make a career with.It's impossible to find jobs in your own field because they are all disappearing and you get rejected for the low level part time/min wage crap because you're overqualified. Not to mention unemployment benefits only last 6 months and there are no extensions anymore. Um, how the #&$% are we supposed to survive?? ere is a joke...A job agency in my neighborhood that I registered with asked me for references. Okay, I gave them two. The from jobs they will be great at. It's just wrong in my opinion. We need a fresh set of eyes to look at what were doing in this world or else things are going to go VERY WRONG.Things ARE very wrong.They are letting more and more people into the country, who access our assistance monies.?You and I don't get the money, they do.People won't wake up.They don't want to look at what the real problems are.Never before in history have people turned such a blind eye to what is going on. Nations used to protect themselves and their resources. They didn't invite the whole world in. It was NEVER viewed as evil, racist, or any of the so-called labels we get, if America doesn't bend over for everyone else.I am tired of hearing that Americans are fat and lazy---Americans work harder than any other nation!!?I am tired of hearing that America pollutes the planet. ---We contribute our fair share, but not as much as other nations.?I am tired of hearing how it's OUR fault that our "elected officials and leaders" are ruining the nation. We obviously DON'T choose this, and this garbage that you can "Vote them out!" is fruitless.For the people who just jumped on the ship to learn Spanish...there will be a day you cannot get a job no matter what language you learned, because you will be a foreigner here, and you helped to contribute to it. You cared too much for the present moment.I totally agree.?Another thing people are blind to is getting Doubled taxed on unemployment.?Think about it, when your working, your taxed on that money they put aside for unemployment.?Once you start collecting unemployment, then your taxed again.?Same with water, we are double taxed here in CA, not sure about other taxes.?We are charged for CRV and then taxed on top of the CRV as well.I don't agree on the "people who jumped to learn spanish" comment.?We are all given an opportunity to learn a language in High school, mines was spanish.?I personally love the language, but when I see an job ad that states MUST speak spanish when I met all the other required skills with the exception of communicating in spanish, then it pisses me off, so I do something about it, I relearn the language on my own or take a refresher course. I can cuss any body out in a shot second in spanish, best believe, but I'm sure the employer is thinking of a much more professional?communication?in spanish. LOL?I Dont think by any means that those who choose to better themselves by learning a language are contributing to the language requirement that is being required in jobs these days are at fault at all, Blame the employers, Blame thegovernment?for allowing our country to be over flowed with people from many countries whom seem to be slowly taking over each town one by one. I like seeing street signs in English personally, but to go to a town that's been taken over by foreginers and to see the street signs in their language, always throws me for a loop.I totally agree.?Another thing people are blind to is getting Doubled taxed on unemployment.?Think about it, when your working, your taxed on that money they put aside for unemployment.?Once you start collecting unemployment, then your taxed again.?Same with water, we are double taxed here in CA, not sure about other taxes.?We are charged for CRV and then taxed on top of the CRV as well.That's a good point.?But if you came here from country X, you could get everything free.?Housing,?food,?healthcare,an?education. And if your kids went to?college, they'd get about 1,000 a month just to live off of.I don't agree on the "people who jumped to learn spanish" comment.?We are all given an opportunity to learn a language in High school, mines was spanish.?I personally love the language, but when I see an job ad that states MUST speak spanish when I met all the other required skills with the exception of communicating in spanish, then it pisses me off, so I do something about it, I relearn the language on my own or take a refresher course. I can cuss any body out in a shot second in spanish, best believe, but I'm sure the employer is thinking of a much more professional?communication?in spanish. LOL?I Dont think by any means that those who choose to better themselves by learning a language are contributing to the language requirement that is being required in jobs these days are at fault at all, Blame the employers, Blame the?governmentfor allowing our country to be over flowed with people from many countries whom seem to be slowly taking over each town one by one. I like seeing street signs in English personally, but to go to a town that's been taken over by foreginers and to see the street signs in their language, always throws me for a loop.I don't think you got my post.?I am not talking about someone having taken Spanish in high school.?I am talking about the people who are trying to learn Spanish to accommodate these people, rather than THEM having to learn English.When people get on the bandwagon and learn Spanish for these employers, they ARE contributing to the demise of their own nation.When another group comes here, are you going to have to learn THEIR language, too?I think people are not thinking about the overall effect this is having. But the more than go along with it, the more employers are going to require it...Ok, I understand it now, but honestly, what are we suppose to do when we have all the skills but the language ????? Not apply for the job ??Just another job that American citizens don't qualify for because the employer now wants someone who speaks 2 languages and wants to pay minimum wage.?I don't understand this at all, It never use to be like this back in the day but now a days that's all I ever see in "some" of the office positions. :(All those people need to learn ENGLISH!!! Why should citizens of our countries have to learn some other language? What's next?Arabic? It will be a cold day in h*** before I ever learn to speak it!!!But we do have the language.?It's not right that others come here and we are forced to learn their language.?I would not immigrate to Mexico and expect them to speak English.There are just somethings that are right and some that are wrong.I know what you're saying here, but I think people have to stop caving into this whole deal.Well, as far as the politicians are concerned, we can be replaced by cheaper?labor.?That's why it's being forced.Always, always...follow the money!!Just spent the last hour reading about Monica Lewinsky. I feel bad for her. Heck, even she?claims?she hasn't been able to get a job!!! Had no idea!!!!I don't know if I feel sorry for her, either, but Bill Clinton was one half of the situation and HE's doing just fine. It wasn't his first rodeo, either, so when people call her a wh*re, I'm thinking, WHO's the wh*re? A star struck 22 year old, or a married man with a family. Seriously, the Kennedy boys had a swinging door on the White House for their assorted bimbos, and that was well known and ok with everybody. Pigs, nothing new in Washington.I WISH I could go back to putting stickers on boxes. Production work paid my bills for 17 years in a much simpler time. I've come to realize that those coveted good-paying jobs will eventually make your head explode, my head is threatening every single day. I LONG to go back to looking at little pieces of plastic. My company went belly up and the jobs went to Ch*na. Our product was so incredibly high quality that one?Japanese?company that we made video cassettes for made us pull the insert that said 'made in the USA' so people would assume it was a Japanese product. I was not only part of making a product, I was part of making a GOOD product. Now I deal with hoards of foreigners getting free?health care?on the dole, who get pissy if I can't understand what they're saying. Almost 6 months and counting. But...it's a job.If you think it's bad in Maine, you should see the sheer number of foreigners on the dole in Arizona. They get Social Security, too, which always baffled me. Didn't you HAVE to work and pay into the system to get anything? Well, not now, folks...Right now, our little gnomes in DC are working on getting them SS when they "retire". If they come here and claim they already worked in the US for 10 years, they are going to get SS for that. Someone asked how the IRS is going to check this, as anyone can claim they worked here, and most of them got cash, etc. as pay. If they didn't pay taxes, how do they get SS? The answer was that the IRS doesn't check these things. THEY DON'T??? They check every cent you and I make. So how does someone claim they worked here, or claim they had 15 kids here, and get SS? So all of these people NOT PAYING into the system...where is the money going to come from, when they retire? How do they get the benefits of this, when they are not citizens?Did the world go insane, and is this just a lucid dream???And for all of the people who give me a thumbs down for my prior comment about SS, you should read up about how this will affect you. Because if the same amount of money goes in, and they promise money to millions more people, including free?healthcare,?college, blah blah blah, you will get less. Look to history to see where things are going. It's not just about jobs anymore. Tolerance is not the answer.SS will be broke in 20 years unless something major changes. The evidence is indisputable. There is more being paid out than being taken in including a rush on those who are 62 and opting for early retirement.SS will be broke in 20 years unless something major changes. The evidence is indisputable. There is more being paid out than being taken in including a rush on those who are 62 and opting for early retirement.I heard this and it's freaking me out and makes me sad for those who will retire in 33 years. By the time I'm ready to retire, wtf then? I'm working hard, fighting through a recession, for what? This broken system is really stupid, and I wonder where it's starting.Outsourcing? Illegals? What's breaking the system?We should not be forced into paying into it.I heard this and it's freaking me out and makes me sad for those who will retire in 33 years. By the time I'm ready to retire, wtf then? I'm working hard, fighting through a recession, for what? This broken system is really stupid, and I wonder where it's starting.Outsourcing? Illegals? What's breaking the system?You can find it all on the net.?Our nation cannot keep up with bringing all of these people in, as cheap?labor, from all over the world, and then subsidizing them. That's what our taxes pay for. They get all sorts of goodies, money to travel here or there, money for books, free?healthcare,?daycare, you name it.well we are are gonna be old one day. Ok older. We are going to need it.......who knows whats best anymoreIt won't be there or will be cut.?Millions are coming into this nation, and the govt wants to even increase the HB-1s coming in. They even rename things so it fits the quotas.American citizens are getting the short end of the stick. Makes you wonder what you paid into all of these years with taxes.There won't be anything left by the time we are retirement age :/And yet we must still continue to pay in- how is that fair?SS is the Mother of all Ponzi Schemes. You pay in and it instantly goes out. Your problem is that there won't be enough people paying into it when you retire so you might want to pick out your shopping cart now.There are a lot of solutions that political puppets are unwilling to look at, but will HAVE to when they are faced with poor houses coming back, like rich people over a certain income and net worth not needing a social security check. And I believe they stop taking it out of paychecks after you earn a certain yearly amount that few of us reach, that should stop. You can find it all on the net.?Our nation cannot keep up with bringing all of these people in, as cheap?labor, from all over the world, and then subsidizing them. That's what our taxes pay for. They get all sorts of goodies, money to travel here or there, money for books, free?healthcare,daycare, you name it.And then they say "OW my(fill in body part) hurts" and they get disability. They barely speak English, but they have milking the system down to an?art.There are plenty of people who point them in the right direction, too.You and I cannot afford to go to the doctor every time we have an issue. We just can't afford it, but these people can.A study showed that people who are on?governmentMedicaid/state?health?insurance?are more likely to take longer to "recover"from an injury or illness. The working person has to bite the bullet and go back to work and just try to get through it. The person on Medicaid is all about their injury and how it keeps them from doing things. The working person HAS to go back to work and cannot afford to be home and get rest and get better. Hence recovery times for working people are far shorter.It is not "fair" that those who work (or those unemployed and want to work) are discriminated against because they are Americans.It's not about "being nice" or "being compassionate" to other nations. We are not getting?healthcare?we need here.We HAVE to get back to work quicker because we have so many illegal immigrants to support.Last fall when I applied for a full-time job at a company my parents used to work at it had a VERY similar test maybe not quite as hard. had complex math questions and a few goofy questions too 90 percent of people probably couldn't get right anyways and it was timed. Of course I didn't get the job after spending almost 2 hours on it. I applied for Solstice Sunglasses for a salesassociate?position and it has the same timed, VERY complex test on it too. Had math more advanced that I ever seen incollege. I just backed out and didn't bother with the test since I know I wouldn't pass it anyways. Why don't they put the tests at the start of the applications so you can back out of it without having to spend an hour typing everything else in?I about give up ever finding a decent job. Just too many barriers to break through now. Why do they put these barriers up?So they can say that no one qualified applied, and they can hire their friends.?I've seen that before.?They have different criteria for family and friends.You wonder how the businesses can survive this stuff.I see news articles all the time how tech companies, and other highly skilled industries say they can't find people to apply for their jobs so they search in other countries.Why would low paying jobs have these test though? So if you do bad on the test but mark you're a military vet, Native American, female, been on SNAP within the last 12 months I assume that puts you to the top then regardless of the dumb test since they get tax credits for?hiring?military vets and people on welfare?I see news articles all the time how tech companies, and other highly skilled industries say they can't find people to apply for their jobs so they search in other countries.Why would low paying jobs have these test though? So if you do bad on the test but mark you're a military vet, Native American, female, been on SNAP within the last 12 months I assume that puts you to the top then regardless of the dumb test since they get tax credits for?hiring?military vets and people on welfare?You know why? Because they won't f*cking train anyone. I'm actually getting upset by the fact that American companies are just giving a big ol' middle finger to training and expect people to come "ready made". That makes NO sense and that's not how ANYONE learned how to do their job or climb the corporate ladder. They needed training. But now they are so willing to hire outside of the US for one reason I can think of: cheaper?labor.How do they get away with all of this?t's amazing how the experts keep saying we aren't in a recession.?Maybe not for them.?And these millions of jobs which were "created"...?fast food, big box, call centers? Jobs you can't survive on.I hear people talk about the recession being over.?We've been losing jobs since the 1980s.?Someone mentioned the "Great Recession" being TWO years!!?Not where I have lived.?Thousands of jobs have poured out of the US since the early 80s?and they continue to go offshore.?I'd love to know the criteria people have for saying "the recession is over".?Is it because someone on CNN said it?People need to be more aware of what is going on out there.?No wonder the media tries to pull the wool over the public's eye.Two consecutive quarters of negative GDP is a recession. So that's how we're technically not in a recession.Everyone knows there's still a jobs recession out there. The jobs being created are service industry jobs which aren't high paying. The unemployment rate of 5.5% (I think that's what it is now) is not accurate. Double that number and you're close.I think the true unemployment rate is about 20 percent.I think a couple years ago that was true. I'm not sure about now. To be sure, what the gov't reports is not accurate. The gov't also doesn't report how much harder it is to get a job now and how many hurdles you have to jump through to get one.If ever there was alaw?against posting an ad with no intention of?hiring?. I keep a log of all the interviews that I went on and the contact names. I would like to report all of the ones that repost again or just lie to candidtates.Someone should ask on the interview when they ask us any more questions? Oh yeah I have one more for you. Is this a real job you are trying to fill or are you just inteviewing people because you want to look busy? I would like to hear the reaction to that one! It will catch them off guard that is for sure! If you are at an interview you for sure have no interest in after the interview we should try that one on them jsut to see their face!I hear you. I've been at this for only a month and the job sites( excluding this one) just are bogus. They are in thebusiness?of milking vulnerable people.I think the true unemployment rate is about 20 percent.I agree. I think with "underemployment", it's even worse.?Just about everyone I know is either underemployed, not working?full time, underpaid, or overworked.I think a couple years ago that was true. I'm not sure about now. To be sure, what the gov't reports is not accurate. The gov't also doesn't report how much harder it is to get a job now and how many hurdles you have to jump through to get one.I totally agree. Why even for min wage jobs do they put so many barriers up in order to get one?You can't live off a minimum wage job anyway.?That's why all the cheap jobs don't matter.?But the govt doesn't differentiate.?Tip of the iceberg. Probably so much more we don't know.People who haven't looked for a job in years would be totally shocked if they had to look now.I look back on interviews I've gone on and I never really did that bad on most but here I am with still no job.I have become a very compassionate person now for anyone in any walk of life who is down and out. Hopefully I'm not out yet.I was reading on another forum how some (naive) guy said his parents should have changed jobs. He said why do they torture themselves staying in a bad job?How clueless.If you are in an industry, say selling to restaurants for ex.You have the big boys like Sysco and US Foods and 1 other which are HIGHLY stressful sale jobs. You don't want.Then you have regional ones. There's prob 2 regional ones in his parents location....which prob have ok benes and ok pay. 2 regional! That's it.Then a lot of small mom and pop distributors that pay garbage!What I'm saying is the grass is not greener on the other side whatever field you are in.His parents have jobs!They should take their time and look for another if their jobs are terrible BUT it will take over a year at least before something opens up. But, then they have to do well on the interview.MY point is...getting a job in 2015 is just flat out tough. No matter who you are unless you got some serious connections.Yep, that's what I said.?It's hard to find a job, and it's hard to find a BETTER job.I'd never would count on temp agencies. I think they're a bunch of liars. Also usually the assignment won't last nearly as long as they claim it will when you get hired.I think a couple years ago that was true. I'm not sure about now. To be sure, what the gov't reports is not accurate. The gov't also doesn't report how much harder it is to get a job now and how many hurdles you have to jump through to get one.It also doesn't show the number of people that have stopped looking for jobs or those that still need?full time?jobs but had to settle for a part time job. Things are deffinitely not getting any better.My son, after graduating with an Associates, works 6 days a week and volunteers on the seventh. He feels bad about not being able to move out. My daughter, who has avoided allcollege?debt by my money, her big scholarship and by working seven days a week, would not be on her own without the help of all the other struggling college kids packing themselves into apartments!She may need to move back home, unless we can find scholarships for her masters in?education.I love to have them back. But, I know they feel embarassed by their shortfalls.I can sympathize with your kids. I'm in my early 40's and was doing well up until 4+ years ago. In the last 4+ years I've sold almost everything i don't need, have had to liquidate my investments, moved in with my parents, been underemployed but mostly unemployed... My wife has a Masters in?HR?and I have an MBA. We also have 2 young kids. We have had a lot of support from my parents and my in-laws but I know we are the exception. This economy stinks. Not sure how the media is able to pull the wool over everyone's eyes but they are doing a darn good job of it. Can't wait to see what happens once the wool is pulled back.There is something called "emerging adolescents" that older folks really should look up. It's a newish theory that's growing because of the economic situation many young people are finding themselves in, much like the term "teen" was developed.. I studied it in school. People need to understand this is a real thing and that people ARE leaving their parents' homes later than before. Try late 20's, early 30's. They did studies on it and more than half (when they did the study) of adult aged 20-26 lived with their parents, which obviously has a whole slew of consequences and benefits. It's a new norm. It's not odd or strange and those who insist it is aren't really educating themselves on the?financial?hardships that exist and which groups are experiencing it.Just don't order any large item for UPS?delivery. They only put one person on a truck, & either the item (furniture, usually) will get dragged up your driveway (& damaged), or they'll just return your order to the sender, saying you sent it back.Everything is so cheap now and they make it the employee's problem to figure out how to do the impossible. I feel for those guys.And for all of the people who give me a thumbs down for my prior comment about SS, you should read up about how this will affect you. Because if the same amount of money goes in, and they promise money to millions more people, including free?healthcare,?college, blah blah blah, you will get less. Look to history to see where things are going. It's not just about jobs anymore. Tolerance is not the answer.& then there is the fact that all criminals get full?healthcoverage . . .I recently read that the penal system is considered a "growth industry". We have already have two million people in prison now and at a cost of $50K per inmate per year. Astronomical amounts of money are being spent on this.Other forums say that if you don't have a?college?degree, try and get into the Department of?Corrections. You start out at something like $20.00 an hour.SS will be broke in 20 years unless something major changes. The evidence is indisputable. There is more being paid out than being taken in including a rush on those who are 62 and opting for early retirement.Ahem. We don't "opt for early retirement." We can't get hired anywhere due to age discrimination, & no one gives us any options other than early retirement. Gov't supported one stops won't or can't help us get retraining (transferable skills is a JOKE). & then there are so many women w/so many babies & no baby daddy willing to support her/them, but if a woman wants to go to school, the only way she can get $ is to make a baby! Broken system!Broken? Some say that this is not UNINTENTIONAL. Its all part of the plan."Customer Service" w/most companies is someone in who knows what country sitting @ a?computer?w/a list of complaints/solutions that the person doesn't understand any more than your problem. That's outsourcing. & it's American businesses who have shifted their company headquarters into other countries but still call themselves American. It's built in discrimination, usually age, in those ATS read outs, too. Don't think there is any agency that oversees ATS questions any more than employment agencies.You can find it all on the net.?Our nation cannot keep up with bringing all of these people in, as cheap?labor, from all over the world, and then subsidizing them. That's what our taxes pay for. They get all sorts of goodies, money to travel here or there, money for books, free?healthcare,daycare, you name it.It is this weird idea that our "government" provides the $! Folks, it's "Fort Knox," not "Farm?Knox." There are no MONEY TREES from which the American government plucks bucks.It won't be there or will be cut.?Millions are coming into this nation, and the govt wants to even increase the HB-1s coming in. They even rename things so it fits the quotas.American citizens are getting the short end of the stick. Makes you wonder what you paid into all of these years with taxes.Makes you wonder where these people think they'll go once they break the American system? Like mismanagement, counterproductive behavior is self destructive. But, hey, if CONGRESS can't figure this out . . . ?!SS is the Mother of all Ponzi Schemes. You pay in and it instantly goes out. Your problem is that there won't be enough people paying into it when you retire so you might want to pick out your shopping cart now.I thought that Social Security was a kind of?investment?of your retirement $ deducted from your paycheck, like a 401K or any other kind of investment? Am I na?ve or what? Kinda like thinking that your payments on your utility bills covered maintenance & repair?of water lines, sewer, phones . . . etc.That's a good point.?But if you came here from country X, you could get everything free.?Housing?,?food?,?healthcare?,an?education?. And if your kids went to?college?, they'd get about 1,000 a month just to live off of.When my parents immigrated in the 1950s, they had to passhealth?inspections & needed a sponsor to insure that they would NOT be dependent on?government?$. What happened? Oh, & they went to night school to learn English.I thought that Social Security was a kind of?investment?of your retirement $ deducted from your paycheck, like a 401K or any other kind of investment? Am I na?ve or what? Kinda like thinking that your payments on your utility bills covered maintenance & repair?of water lines, sewer, phones . . . etc.Thinking that SS is akin to a saving accounts is a common misconception. What you pay into FICA this week, goes out next week to those on SS programs, making it in effect, agovernment?Ponzi scheme.Today I applied for two jobs at a large corporation which uses the Taleo applicant tracking system. Probably just throwing my resume down a black hole, but that's what you have to do to apply there.Yesterday I spoke to a staffing agency about a specific job. I knew it would be a pointless conversation as soon as she started telling me how the agency worked instead of what the job was all about. 20 minutes about the agency, 5 minutes about the job. With a little more research of my own, I discovered that the staffing agency is several states distant. And I think I already applied for that job through a local agency last month.Staffing agencies seem to funnel into perhaps one mega-agency somewhere. They seem to have a local office n/o agency but are operated regionally. You have a really difficult time finding competent inner office?communicationaccordingly, & there seems to be a revolving door of recruiters, adding to the chaos. SOME companies will use different agencies for the SAME job(s), so apply w/different agencies & hope for the best.When my parents immigrated in the 1950s, they had to pass?health?inspections & needed a sponsor to insure that they would NOT be dependent ongovernment?$. What happened? Oh, & they went to night school to learn English.My coworker, who is a?legal?immigrant, has the same story. Her dad came and lived here, working 3 jobs for YEARS before he could afford to bring his wife and kids here. He has never NOT worked, the kids are all?bilingual, as are his grandkids. She has the best command of English I've ever heard from somebody not born here. Nobody on the dole, all paying taxes. So the way we open the floodgates and just let everybody stream in is a slap in the face to the people who did it the right way! A Muslim woman with 11 kids, when asked how she takes care of them all, told a friend of mine working in a?healthcare?setting, that Ala provides. Call me Ala, because it all comes out of my paycheck and yours.I heard on the news they might make voting mandatory. Ha!?They might as well put one name on the ballot then.I wonder when they will change the name of this country. Something touchy/feeling like,?"The United Communities of Change and Opportunity". Yeah, something like THAT.Our taxes pay for free cell phones too. I know the people who get them, have BETTER phones than I have.This?business?of having 11 kids on the backs of the US taxpayers...there was a woman who had 15. The?city?social workers gave her a HOUSE,?FOOD?STAMPS, free HEALTHCARE, and she had the nerve to yell at the?courtabout how "someone has to take care of my kids" and how they didn't give her enough. OMGGGGGGGGExactly. Voter turnout is a huge problem because fewer and fewer people see the point. The last Presidential election was THE most expensive on record and yet the voter turnout was dismal. This has political power brokers worried.My father use to say "There is the ballot vote and then there is the dollar vote: two different conversations". He never voted in his life. Thanks, Leeann. :)?Whoever gave your comment a "No" is a horrible person. lolYou don't get it yet? The no's are a comment on society. A symbol of the struggle. A symbol of all the no's we get in good ol' 'Murica!Meanwhile the illegals are getting more yes' than you'd like to admit to yourself.On another forum they were talking about how student loan might become a "bubble", and how student loans are preventing the young from starting families, buying things, and purchasing homes. I think I'll be one of those people. A shame, too.Same here. I owe about 45k in student loans. About 10k is private loan and from the school which is about 100 a month my parents are paying right now. The other 30 something is thru Salle Mae and I've been deferring it the last 9 months.Most of the jobs I'm seeing that don't involve retail or?customer service?are only paying $9-13 an hour and want you to be a execassistant, receptionist, book keeper,?custodian,?accountantall in one!Like I said, a lot of boomers think hunting for a job is like what it used to be back in the "day". You can't walk into a building and hand them your resume anymore.At my job we received a paper resume in the mail. It was on some nice paper, too. My boss took it out of the mail, laughed, and said "Where's the nearest trash?" And I said "What if he's a dream candidate?" And his response was, "I wouldn't bet on it. Oh yeah, we should shred these." He never bothered to look at it any further, and because of my insistence, it landed on a co-workers desk. The next morning she laughed when she came and saw it, and threw it right away.Not the same at all.Thing is, companies have abdicated human interaction w/we humans sending resumes. ATS seems to have unregulated discriminatory bias. Specific software (kwantek is one) will reject you because it has decided to use a "different?database." Really? Is this the new "overqualified" rejection of senior applicants? Your resume is held in a?computerdatabase?until?HR?tells the printer to supply a specific # of resumes. The computer uses keyword search to spit out that # of resumes only. If the ridiculous job offers that I get w/keyword search is any indication of the incompetence of that system, companies are wasting their $ using those services. & people very qualified for jobs can't get a resume reviewed!I do not see how it go can on like it is one more generation. I am thinking of way to change my life and way of living to live on basically a tiny salary .........Wouldn't we all?You wouldn't believe how STUPID the employers are. They keep wanting purple unicorns/squirrels and they will not budge.Training? They will not consider training a candidate who would otherwise be perfect. And these employers are perfectly fine with waiting until they get their elusive purple unicorn. It's ridiculous.I absolutely WOULD believe it. I did what you guys are doing for a year before I got my job. Planetary alignment? Luck? I don't "know" anybody, that's for sure. Maybe it was my qualifications and experience. Just hang in, that's all I know. I applied for every job I could, and then tried to enjoy the down time. I was somewhat disappointed when the call came, because I WAS enjoying it so much. But I couldn't live on my Social Security, so I had to go to work. But yeah, I dealt with the incredible stupidity. As a matter of fact I found this forum after a particularly stupid interview with stupid questions, by a truly stupid person. Just hang in, Peeps!I'm torn between feeling frustrated that I wasn't hired and laughing at the ridiculousness that a snotty employer refuses to hire anyone when so many talented people are out of work.I don't think they are real openings, come on how long could it take for a job opening that doesn't even require a degree in anything take to fill in this economy? (There is one of those in my town- constantly listed as?hiring- the ad disappears for about a week or two then it's back up...)That or the enviroment at that workplace is just so horrible no one will stay.Sent resume...next day email by Bob asking my salary range.After not hearing anything, 8 weeks later I wrote email saying:Dear Bob,I guess my original salary reqs were a little too ambitious. How bout 10 to 20k per year PLUS every yr on my Birthday I receive 20 virgins from the company.Can you believe Bob wrote me back.Dear Mr Gagill,We are planning on coming up in 3 weeks. You have not been forgotten. Blah Blah Blah.Oh really, did you read what I wrote u Bob.The good old days. You could get a job at 9am, quit at 10am, have another one by 11am, quit that job at 12pm, have another one by 2pm.That was in the 80's. Didn't even need a High School?edjumacation.lol, I don't know about this time frame but I get what you're saying. The thing is there were less rules and regulations during?hiring. Now they drag out something for up to a month before a rejection. Just in about 2005 I was hired with no reference check or second interview, now they act like references are the end all be all of a job and want 5 and 6 for a job stocking canned goods on a shelf. I know there are a lot of applicants but the road blocks are ridiculous.And the worse is online apps because that is what job applying has come down too but it's so counter productive. I remember paper apps I'd get in?fast food?places, all that was listed was filling in last jobs, duties, managers name, start and end date and essentials like your name and such. That's it. Wanting lists of references, copy of certs and diploma, personality tests, personal statements, reasons you want the job, and a?financial?history is irrelevant until they meet you. Job searching now is 80% waste of time for the job seeker.I don't think prior generations wished this sort of thing away.?But then, they weren't enslaved by technology. They could fight back.I think every generation has had their severe difficulties,,,,but ours, this generation, the technology is soul sucking. I struggled with a malfunctioning printer this week until i was shaking. I had problems with passwords. For me I know I will not continue to attempt to apply for jobs in this way. Its insane to do so (i am speaking only for myself, not anyone else). I have driven myself crazy for what? My time is going to be spent trying to look at other ways of doing life.......like getting into the low income?apartment, how to stockpile?food(not like a lunatic) but enough to get me by for a long time if there is no money left. I am weary, but hopeful. Life goes on. i believe God can and will take care of me, He can certainly do so in ways that dont include a "regular" job. I have a roof and food and for now I am trying to be content. It is not an easy roadI agree, somewhat. Inventing the wheel only helped those in ancient times and created more opportunities. The?industrialrevolution didn't take away from the previous generation. WWI, WWII both benefited the economy.However, this generation is dealing with the internet/technology, specifically, which seems to not have worked in their favor. Sure, you say, now they need coders,graphic?designers, web people... but we know they're outsourcing these functions. Other inventions and "challenges" never seemed to increase the unemployment rate or stop generations from creating families. In fact, the baby boomer generation happened because things were SO great! I saw a study that showed there's a dip in people having?children.Now, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is just what I've noticed... it's sad, really. Do I doubt we'll be the last generation to suffer? No. But this seems to be the start of something... bad.Yes, the technology makes the difference. They can pry, be intrusive, and ignore our rights to privacy. The?governmentisn't doing a thing about employers, because they do the same thing.When you see things like tuna on sale, buy it. Then you have some food and know you can get by...The govt is pushing for more foreign workers to come to the US.?The hand is out with goodies for people coming here.?It's both parties, so it's not partisan.The Middle East, India, Mexico, and Southeast Asia have people willing to come here and work cheaper than Americans.?The politicians are pushing for more and more foreigners to come here.2015/03/25/obama-guides-more-foreign-workers-into-us-job-market/Why are citizens last????Look at who is in power. On another forum they were talking about this, and how this is, apparently, a political move for trying to gain more votes for a particular party... think about it. It's all about politics, really. Not really about anything else. Citizens are just collateral damage in regards to this agenda.There are also illegals coming over from the northern border, yet not a peep, really, about that. Wonder why...Business?lets the politicians cash in on this.Why they turn their backs on us.I don't even think it's about votes. I think they've tinkered with that, too.?But I do think it's about cheaper?labor?and getting rid of us.They want more peasants they can manipulate and control.Make no mistake, it is both parties doing this. Obama is doing it now, and Jeb Bush, if he gets in, will keep it going.It's going to get worse. Also, people are not retiring anymore. That also takes away jobs.* Because so many lost their jobs before they reached social security age or got dumped by companies to avoid pension payoutsAh the joys ofapartment?life! I remember it well.9 hours of sleep would be heaven! I'm lucky to get 5.I really wonder when the unemployed will revolt. I mean how bad does it have to get before riots & murders start? Or perhaps a mass exodus of US citizens to other countries. Things cannot continue as they are.They are all coming here and the welcome mat is out.Employers won't change because there is always someone looking for a job. I had a job where certain positions, people kept quitting or walking off the job, sometimes days in. I used to think that would be a sign the position was to stressful and demanding (it was) and management would consider that. Nope. Just kept going through girls until one stuck around for a while. That's all that will happen, they won't actually consider the employee/job seeker. I'd be in for a job strike/revolt. I think we need to be treated and paid better. But it will never happen.The good old days. You could get a job at 9am, quit at 10am, have another one by 11am, quit that job at 12pm, have another one by 2pm.That was in the 80's. Didn't even need a High School?edjumacation.W/all the commotion about the inadequacies of schooleducation/training, it is amazing that SO many very specific often elaborate jobs require ONLY high school/GED. A lot of these jobs require YEARS of "customer service," too . ."Overqualified" is actually industry code for "40+ years old." You can guess that employment software automatically dumps seniors, too.?Legal? NO.We HAVE to get back to work quicker because we have so many illegal immigrants to support.Once saw a bumper sticker: KEEP WORKING! MILLIONS ON WELFARE DEPEND ON YOU!Actually, taxes support "the sick & the feeble" who are often receiving?government?subsidies. It's we able bodied & willing to work folks who are slowly losing our minds trying to find JOBS that WOULD pay taxes to support . . . you mean, the government can't figure out that it's in its best interest to help employ people who can & want to work?I leave my brothers and sisters with this:Totally useless agencies in Govt...EnergyCommerceEducationAnd..........................................Dept of?LaborWell I'm in my 20's and I still get this message if I put my degrees on an app. Young or old, employers don't like people being too qualified, whatever that means.It means:- Asked for too much money/will cost the company too much.or/and?- Over 40.?or/and?- Too smart for your own good.I leave my brothers and sisters with this:Totally useless agencies in Govt...EnergyCommerceEducationAnd..........................................Dept of?LaborAdd the VA to that list too. They're a nightmare to deal with. Today I happen to go with my mom so she could get a Dept of Defense ID because my dads disabled vet and some places will let spouses get it too if they have an ID. Anyways after waiting an half hour in a building that was about 90 degrees inside we find out that she would have to go to an actual military base to get it. They said to drive to Ft. Leonard Wood which is about 100 miles away. Yet they give my dad the same ID right at the VA.What is funny at the VA Obama's portrait is HUGE!!!. Bush Jr portrait at the VA was nowhere near that size.VA people many of them make decent money and all they do is sit and lounge around and treat veterans like trash. The VA is a prime example of affirmative action gone wrong. Half the doctors they hire barely speak English.Which type of job would you pursue?A) Selling high end appliances, commission plus benefits, working evenings and weekendsB) Taking a temp to perm light?industrial?job (assembling or feeding a line) starting at 12-13 as temp then going up to 17+ when hired on perm possibly with benefits, working Mon-Fri days or afternoons, weekends offB.....Which type of job would you pursue?A) Selling high end appliances, commission plus benefits, working evenings and weekendsB) Taking a temp to perm light?industrial?job (assembling or feeding a line) starting at 12-13 as temp then going up to 17+ when hired on perm possibly with benefits, working Mon-Fri days or afternoons, weekends offI would take A if it's perm. That temp job looks sucky, and the part about "going up to 17 when hired perm" is the usual pie-in-the-sky temp agency BS, which is not to be believed. A also has better growth possibilities.Which type of job would you pursue?A) Selling high end appliances, commission plus benefits, working evenings and weekendsB) Taking a temp to perm light?industrial?job (assembling or feeding a line) starting at 12-13 as temp then going up to 17+ when hired on perm possibly with benefits, working Mon-Fri days or afternoons, weekends offI would take A especially if it is permanent. Plus it provides benefits as you stated. Is the base pay higher for A than for B?Seems like the job market has once again dried up over the last two months. However, I did get a call out of the blue about a job I applied for six months ago. That's right, six months ago. The interview is set for greater than two weeks in the future. Um. Okay.Current job is still an absolute zoo. Every day is war. It's soul crushing. I'm awaiting liberation. Any time now...I wondering if companies are putting in place?hiring?freezes.?If you sell $100,00 a month, $20,000 would be the profit. You would get 15% of the profit, plus approximately 3% of 100,00 in spiffs from the manufacturers. The spiffs are what make the appliance?businessbetter than other sales jobs.You would get an advance of $350 per week, plus $100 in salary. You would pay back the $1400 per month in advances off your commission cheque each month, but not the $400 a month in salary.Too friggin' complicated. I'd choose B.Which type of job would you pursue?A) Selling high end appliances, commission plus benefits, working evenings and weekendsB) Taking a temp to perm light?industrial?job (assembling or feeding a line) starting at 12-13 as temp then going up to 17+ when hired on perm possibly with benefits, working Mon-Fri days or afternoons, weekends offBI've been out of work since Nov 2014 and I've had a lot of time to think about how I've wasted so much time and money on earning degrees that haven't given me any return oninvestment. I have a B.S. in Marketing, MBA in?HRmanagement (needs to be completed), and MSA in PublicAdministration. I graduated from undergrad 6 years ago and I have yet to get a job that at least requires a Bachelor degree. I feel like what the heck was the point of all of this?!When I applied to a NUMEROUS amount of jobs and still haven't received a call back or e-mail. The jobs I want don't want me and the jobs I don't want ALWAYS contact me! I don't understand why these idiot employers act like it's such a crime to TRAIN people. They want 1000 years of experience before they hire you for these low paying jobs. I don't get it.Sweet child. If you had consulted any of us on getting the masters, I'm sure we would have told you not to. Debt is not the answer. It's puts you in further enslavement to the "system" or whatever you want to call it.At this point you may look overqualified. They know you'll do a few things if they hire you:Ask for more money at some point.?Walk out when someone offers you more money.So at this point, you're kind of stuck. Until the economy really starts picking up, or you find that golden ticket, you'll be racking up more debt. Keep in mind, you're competing with other master degree holders AND those with bachelors. And you're competing with those who will accept working for $12K/year, or 9$/hour because they're desperate.It's not easy. Welcome to the job hunting world of 2015.I know how you feel. I finished?college?in December and have only been able to land a part-time job that doesn't even require a degree. I've been looking for other better paying jobs, but without much results. It's really frustrating to have spent so much time and money on college, but not to have it pay off in the end.I wondering if companies are putting in place?hiring?freezes.I wonder if managers don't hire enough staff, and get the big bonus for saving the company money with their department by making the workers work harder.Definitely feel employers overwork their employees. We are expendable. Living a simple life on a knolly hill sounds like heaven.I wonder if managers don't hire enough staff, and get the big bonus for saving the company money with their department by making the workers work harder.This is 100% HOW. IT. WORKS. You've nailed it exactly, Mr. XBox.My last job was constantly cutting corners to "save the company money" -- which really meant being horridly understaffed (I was hired to replace 3 people). The employees (non-management) were so overworked that many of them drank on the job because they couldn't handle the stress sober. Yet the executives drove Cadillacs & Lexuses and threw outrageous company parties. Hmmm....My story is that I pretty much f*cking fed up with finding a mother loving job. I have been searching for permanent work for about 5 f*cking years going on 6. I graduated at the age of 21 fresh with an A.A.S and was ready to get some experience. I heard that jobs will not hire you, if you do not have at least some experience. I am tired of getting nothing but the same consistent rejection emails everyday! I was lucky to get an?internship?at 24 after 3 years of searching for full/part time work to no avail. I even got an extension from my contractor that extended my position for at least 4 months. However, the?contract?was finished and the company decided to let me go, since I was expendable. The Agency has not contacted me in regards to anything new and soon I shall be 27. Agencies only call you when they want too, so I might be waiting another damn year or two for another contract job. I want something permanent. I have student loans that need to be paid, but clearly GOD does not want me to have a job. I want to be a good citizen and pay of my student loan, and sadly I am already in default. I give up. I have not even been too an actual interview yet!God didn't turn the economy into the crap pile that it is, kiddo. People did that.?Agencies will generally just waste your time. You'd be better served looking for a permanent position on your own. It's going to take a long time...that's just the era we live in.I wonder if managers don't hire enough staff, and get the big bonus for saving the company money with their department by making the workers work harder.Xboxer, you have a lot of good insights. They probably don't even call it?hiringfreezes anymore. I guess this is the new economy the rich people are bragging about. Work people to death so they are stressed out of their minds.Great stuff from Rush Limbaugh again the other day about how the economy is getting worse and there simply isn't jobs out there. You might hate him but he's one of the few people vocal about the false job numbers the?government?reports. Unemployment is actually about in the 28 percent range IMO and Rush has stated this before. Plus add all the underpaid and underemployed not working full-time or working retail.daily/2015/04/03/obama_s_lies_on_the_economy_revealed?which essentially means that the company owners/executives/supervisors/etc don't CARE about the company, the jobs themselves, the clients, etc.Oh they cared *plenty* about themselves, their salaries and their overpriced cars (ps. douchebags...those Mercedes you're?driving?are actually made byChrysler, oh snap!). But anyone who wasn't management or?executive?level could go kick rocks. And God help you if you dared to say anything about the amount of work that was constantly being piled on top of you. You could be replaced easily like a broken toy.Well I'm 31 and a lot of my relatives including my parents are retired. My 18 yr old cousin who is a senior in HS took her a YEAR just to find a job at walgreens which only works her FOUR hours a week. My one aunt who lost most of her $$$ and once owned a?business?had to come out of retirement and back to work. She just found out she lost her job at the?grocery store?because it was seasonal and was told she has to reapply again for her position all over again.As for me they keep?hiring?more cashiers so I'll be only getting about 16-18 hours a week probably at the most now.As I've mentioned in several other posts, we can have an underemployment problem without calling it unemployment. There needs to be enough good jobs for people who want them, so we can keep a strong middle class. In my opinion, however, it doesn't help to call this problem of not having enough good jobs an "unemployment problem," as nearly everyone I know is working, even if some of them would like better jobs than they have, more hours, etc.If all you're doing on a resume is listing job titles and dates worked, you're not doing enough. You need to explain what you did at those jobs. That's what sets a resume apart from job applications where you simply list titles and dates.I know you've had a run of short-term jobs. But even at those jobs you had a variety of duties that you should be able to list on your resume.Any resume that goes back 10 years should need more than one page.......in your particular group of friends they all have jobs. People who have jobs tend to think its going well out there. You cant explain this to those who have kept or gotten jobs. They dont "see" it. I no longer try and explain it to those who dont get it. I dont wish anyone to be unemployed. You are clueless because you happen to have employed friends. I work a min wage job 20 hrs a week. If you end up trying to pay bills on that you would "get" it. I do NOT wish it on you or anyone.Its called selective perception. Many people have not been affected by The Great Recession and hold little sympathy for the rest of us. Arguing with them isn't the best use of your time.Did you see the liberal paper NY Times map and article on unemployed men across the country? It's pretty bleak. States like Kentucky, Missouri, California, West Virginia, Arkansas have a lot of counties where it's near 50 percent of working age. Especially rural areas are hit hard as well in the upper south such as the MO and AR Ozarks, Eastern KY etc.Its called selective perception. Many people have not been affected by The Great Recession and hold little sympathy for the rest of us. Arguing with them isn't the best use of your time.That is why the?government?doesn't think it's that bad. The recession hasn't affected them and their cushy pay and raises they get and Obama in the State of the Union boasted about all these new jobs created which btw are mostly low pay. Me for example am counted as employed now despite it being an $8 an hour part-time job. Might as well count me unemployed because it really doesn't pay much bills.Front desk?clerk?job for a?hotel.....they want you to be able to lift 50 pounds, clean the bathroom and lobby, assist with?housekeeping?and breakfast duties, check guests in and out, address complaints...............Evidently they want Superman. This is La Quinta Inn, a large company. Do they honestly get anyone who can do all that? Or would do all that...for what is probably an $8 an hour job...........I was reading the?Bank?of American thread and it's basically a rectal exam to get a job there. They even employ "investigators" to do background checks on your work history. I notice they use some service that has records of employment from companies that belong to this service. Like?Home Depotand the big box stores use these services where they share employment info.This is why I hate stuff like TALEO and Brassring because they can see where you're applying.That is why it's better to stick to smaller companies and businesses that don't use these services. I know companies pay a lot of money to these record sharing companies. So if you have a job at a big company and you got fired because "you didn't fit in" or the place was terrible to work for and quit it will show up on your background check if that company uses their service.I hope Northern Tool doesn't use it because that job was pure hell and I don't put it on my resume because I had to walk out on it.Why does BOA go through all that trouble? I've worked for smaller, local banks before and they did NOT do finger prints or extensive?investigationslike that. Yet BOA gives?credit?cards to illegals though. I hear BOA pays low and is terrible to work for.I'm so sick of our info being passed around without us knowing. This is becoming the Soviet Union or something.forum/cmp/Bank-Of-America/kind-work-background-check-does-BofA-do/t25133Unfortunately, because there is so much bull crap mixed in with the tiny bits of truth that come out of his vile mouth, that is why nobody pays any attention to him. He's trashed his own credibility and his effectiveness in being a solid, truthful voice. These ass clowns on Fox don't seem to get it that people MIGHT LISTEN if they stopped whining/exaggerating/lying/and spewing vitriol. I, a former liberal, DO hear what's being said on that network, due to a fact that I live with a staunch conservative/libertarian and it has changed my thinking on a number of things. Unfortunately you have to pick through the bullsh**t to get to anything worthwhile. It's exhausting.Interesting to hear of your comments on Fox News. As a former Democrat, I have also gone through a transition in my political believes. Mine started when I could no longer find a job. I was so busy when I was working, I rarely would get a chance to really look into what was being said or written. When I became underemployed and unemployed, I really started to pay attention. I now don't think Fox News does those things you claim. If they do make a mistake they are quick to correct but that's not really any different than what I see in the Liberal Media. What I see is that the Liberal Media just does not report on much that is anti the currentadministration. They gloss over it at best. Sometimes take a few days to come up with a 1 minute or less blurp to say they reported on it but basically leave it to Fox to investigate any further. I was not fond of Bush but, since 2010, I have become less fond of Obama. As for Mr. Limbaugh, I still can't stand him... But I also can't stand much of what Alan Colmes says either.I think Limbaugh is pretty accurate when he describes the actual job market though. He is right when it comes to unemployment and the real numbers over 20 percent. He also mentions underemployment a lot too. Working for $9 for example is not a livable wage. The?government?does consider this and considers part-time, near min wage to be full employment still. He is also right when he states a large number of?college?graduates are in jobs that don't even require a degree and pay low. I'm one of them.When I was unemployed I was thinking of every way to get 20$, so ... why not get into writing? I see lots of potential in this thread!I'm a mechanical?designer?who got laid off by one of the big oilfield companies back in January. At the time I thought I'd have another job in a couple of weeks max. It's been three months now and I've never seen anything like it. I usually land a job after 2 or 3 interviews. I've been to about 10 interviews and of the 10 only about 3 have gotten back with me. One said that they couldn't find anyone that they felt was qualified after interviewing about 20 candidates. Another said the position was cancelled. One sent me an email saying they picked a candidate that they felt was more qualified. Not a big deal but the exact same job popped up on the job boards less than a week later.Several times a week I get calls from recruiters saying "We have a job you're perfect for. Can we send them your resume?" I tell them go for it then I never hear from them again. Recruiters won't return my calls or answer my emails. I've been waiting over a month in some cases for an answer, any answer, on jobs.As a candidate I have to follow a code of etiquette. Dont talk bad about my previous employer, no off color jokes, dressed to the nines, intellegent questions, yes sir no sir, thank you notes after the interview. You'd think employers would do the same or at least have the courtesy of he get back with candidates promtply.There needs to be some course of action that can be taken against employers who waste our time and resources only to goof around about?hiring?someone.I'm thinking of something like yelp where job seekers can go and rate employers and leave comments. Link it up to the job boards, monster, career builder even linkedin.I hate temp agencies. Most of them are shady. I don't really have a choice at this point if I want to eat. If I could turn back the clock, I never would have went tocollege. Biggest waste of my time. The college did nothing to help us get jobs when we finished. They went on about how people got jobs at all these great places when they were done. I did my placement at a?hospital. I kept applying for jobs there and even had 2 references. College is a scam because in the end, it's all who you know, or just luck.I went to a affordable?community?college but I still had to take out loans. I got my?associate?degree because my initial plan was to transfer to a university to become a teacher. Then I realized I needed a car to get around and I needed money and I was told by the university's?financial?office that I would have to take out a ton of loans. I'm glad I dodged that bullet?I hate that I have to wait by my phone as a job seeker. I'm expected to do nothing but wait.Yeah this is a pretty god awful feeling for job hunters. I remember at one point my phone cut off because I obviously couldn't pay the bill and I swear I wanted to end my life right there and then. I just was thankful I still had internet.I have applied to lot's of jobs in the last 2 weeks. Nothing, zilch, zippo, makes you so mad after a while. My last resort was going to the temp agency. It's either that, or a commission?furniture?sales job working with a bunch of sharks. Seems like the?general?labour job has more promise.Leeann I can't even find anymore places in my area to apply:( So frustrating! I just don't know what to do anymore, all that left around here are warehouse jobs and I can't physically do that kind of work (lifting) anymore. Ugh. I wish you luck with your upcoming interview and hope you can land something decent this time around- it's just horrible out there right now.I think Limbaugh is pretty accurate when he describes the actual job market though. He is right when it comes to unemployment and the real numbers over 20 percent. He also mentions underemployment a lot too. Working for $9 for example is not a livable wage. Thegovernment?does consider this and considers part-time, near min wage to be full employment still. He is also right when he states a large number of?college?graduates are in jobs that don't even require a degree and pay low. I'm one of them.I may not like Rush but that is something I can agree with. Also something that the liberal media either glosses over or ignores. Funny how being educated, experienced and out of work has really opened my eyes. If I had gone back to school, I might not have noticed and not really question what I believed.I'm so stupid. I have been dealing with this temp agency this week that said they had light?industrialwork. Got done doing all my testing today thinking I would have something for next week (as told me 2 employees yesterday). As I was finishing up today getting my ID, the girl said "We will call you when we have something." I found out they don't have anything and they might not have anything for a month. The girl said, sometimes its for a day or maybe a week. So basically they lied to me letting me think they had?general?labour work I could start next week.They are all lying scum bags as far as I'm concerned now. What a waste of my gas $$$$ being fed lies.They all lure you in with fake positions.?Just today a recruiter in TX called me twice about a position that had supposedly opened up in my area. Oh really? And how would they know from 3 states away? They said they were responsible for all of this particular company's staffing needs. Right...because so many companies would rather go through a staffing agency 3 states away than hire directly.?Turns out I had already signed up with this staffing agency (out of desperation) a YEAR ago and they weren't able to find me anything. Now they come calling! Useless buggers! I told them as politely as possible to leap up my @$$ because I don't deal with staffing agencies. Then I blocked their number.What a depressing and happy thought all at once. I'd hope Boxer would at least let us know, but like you said, if it's a Good Will Hunting moment... there is no goodbye, really.Also, about CT? Hate it. I hate how expensive everything is. And for what?!?!It is expensive up there... When I first moved up there I was shocked at how much I had to pay to register our cars. After I registered my car I dragged my feet on registering my wife's car. In Texas, I paid less then $70 each. In CT, I paid about $5000 for both. I couldn't believe the tax amount that was assessed to my car... Almost $3000. I remember the lady at the DMV in Norwalk had a smirk on her face. Almost like she enjoyed telling me and enjoyed putting people into misery. It took me a few months to save the money to register in CT. I had to since my TX registration was going to expire.?Endoftheworld commented on rental prices. I paid less than $2000 and I was lucky. The guy I rented from was from Texas and also went to my alma mater... I remember thinking, what are the odds. I know he gave me a good deal and we stayed there the entire time we lived in CT. When we moved, he was both happy and a little sad. He said we were the best tenants he ever had. We kept the place clean and always paid the rent on time. So he was sad to lose the dependability. However, he said that once we moved, he was planning on asking around $3000 for rent. No way I could have stayed at that price. I have since sold quite a few things, cashed out on investments and have cut spending to make the money I do have last but with very little income, not sure what will be next.They all lure you in with fake positions.?Just today a recruiter in TX called me twice about a position that had supposedly opened up in my area. Oh really? And how would they know from 3 states away? They said they were responsible for all of this particular company's staffing needs. Right...because so many companies would rather go through a staffing agency 3 states away than hire directly.?Turns out I had already signed up with this staffing agency (out of desperation) a YEAR ago and they weren't able to find me anything. Now they come calling! Useless buggers! I told them as politely as possible to leap up my @$$ because I don't deal with staffing agencies. Then I blocked their number.This is a little funny... I had a recruiter from California email me about jobs in Texas.I agree with you, staffing agencies are ridiculous...most of the time. If I ever get a job at the level I was at before (probably not likely, but who knows) I will never use a staffing agency. I think I would just post on Indeed Forums.Haha gotta be a conspiracy or something. Good thing their stupidity hinders their attempts at enslaving the unemployed masses. ;)What makes me p***** is people who say there are jobs out there!!! No there isn't, Ive been looking and can't find anything.My folks are like this. Makes me mad enough to throw things.My mother prints out job listings on Craigslist and shows them to me when I either a.) don't qualify for them at all, or b.) have already applied to them days ago.?My father will say crap like "there's a help wanted sign in the window at yada yada minimum wage location, why don't you go apply there?" And every time I try to explain why minimum wage blue collar jobs reject me for being "overqualified" he yells at me for being too picky. He doesn't get it. Neither of them do.It's a combination of there not being any jobs AND not being qualified (or being overqualified) for the jobs that are out there. We're screwed.I'm really starting to think I will never get a job. I feel pretty hopeless at this point. I guess I should get prepared for the worst, losing my car, then having no way to even get to a job. It's just not going to get better. It's been too long now, no one wants to even hire me. Not even the temp agencies.Temp agencies are a joke. But I feel ya on the hopelessness. I think we all do.?I've already started evaluating worst case scenarios in my head and how to survive them. Like if my folks kick me out, which they are *constantly* threatening to do, I'd have little choice but to sell my car and buy an old van to live in and keep my stuff safe. Make sure my résumé stays updated onGoogle?Drive so I could apply for jobs from a?librarycomputer. Get a cheap cell phone plan so I can keep my current number. Stuff like that.?After almost 15 months without steady employment, I think it's natural to prepare for the worst.My father will say crap like "there's a help wanted sign in the window at yada yada minimum wage location, why don't you go apply there?" And every time I try to explain why minimum wage blue collar jobs reject me for being "overqualified" he yells at me for being too picky. He doesn't get it. Neither of them do.It's a combination of there not being any jobs AND not being qualified (or being overqualified) for the jobs that are out there. We're screwed.I hope your parents some day come to realize your situation. I think many older people don't really understand because they lived through a different time. Jobs were plentiful and having a degree was not necessary. It's not the same job market as what I saw and lived through... and I am only 42. My parents really don't pester me about not working but I do stay busy. Living out in the country always gives work. It's different if you live in a metropalitan area and unfortunate that your parents don't see that. My parents neighbors have cows and horses and we can go a few weeks without talking to them. Only wave to them as they drive up or down the road. In the past few years I have rebuilt an engine, cut endless fields of grass (summers really keep me busy) power washed 2 houses, repainted a house and helped in remodeling a kitchen. I would be the first to say, though, that this is not the norm and not what is expected from someone like me. There aren't too many educated, former bankers that know how to do some of the stuff I have done.The only thing is, I'm running out of time. I'm $499 in overdraft, so no more bills will be able to go through in 2 weeks. I was so PRAYING this temp job would come through so I would get at least one weeks pay in 2 weeks. It's impossible now for this to happen. There is a point in time when you know your not going to make it, and now I know it's over. I might just return my car back to the?leasing?company, it's less humiliating than having it picked up by the repo guy. Then, it's on to filing for bankruptcy AGAIN for the second time, but no one will probably accept me, because I won't be able to afford the fees this time. So, then it's into?court.Is there NO help from your mom? I mean surely she can see how this sucks, seeing you work your whole life and at whatever age you are, I'm thinking 40's, you're facing this crap?? I see the same with my son, who's 45, and I'll help him while I have breath in my body. I just don't understand parents who can't wake up from the past and look at what's happening to the world we left our kids.Getting on welfare of any kind is very difficult now. You are disqualified if you have a dime to your name. Never mind that you are using it to keep a roof over your head or whatever. I applied for?food?stamps and was denied. I make very little money......The system is a nightmare to navigate. I am trying to get into govt?housing?and was actually called about a two bedroom....Long story, but I was already in a lease and would be required to pay the lease in FULL before taking the?apartment. Well if i had that kind of money I wouldnt be applying to govt housing would I.....Let me toss this thought out, respectfully....If you live with a parent, be respectful. There all all kinds of family dynamics and some of them are unhealthy I know. But dont diss a parent who lets you live under their roof if you are an adult. They are probably not rolling in the money either. You CAN live without an expensive phone and you should contribute to the household in whatever way you can...cleaning, cooking, being kind to the parent who has always been there. Just some thoughts........Its not easy anywhere these days.Employers blacklisting the long term unemployed is getting really old. Employers have way too much power these days and the official unemployment numbers are ridiculously low.Recently I watched the movie, Blue Jasmine. The movie is about a wealthy woman who loses her mind after her husband turns out to be a Bernie Madoff type character and she loses all her wealth and prestige. I keep thinking about that movie as I have come across quite a few people who have clearly lost their mind.People are wandering around aimlessly or acting completely nuts. At the local?library?one guy punched an elderly?librarianbecause he thought she was following him? Several patrons tackled him and held him until the police arrived. This is just one of many such incidents around town.Most of the local papers seem to be avoiding these kinds of stories to keep up the official b.s. that our economy is just freakin' fantastic!Getting on welfare of any kind is very difficult now. You are disqualified if you have a dime to your name. Never mind that you are using it to keep a roof over your head or whatever. I applied for?foodstamps and was denied. I make very little money......The system is a nightmare to navigate. I am trying to get into govt?housingand was actually called about a two bedroom....Long story, but I was already in a lease and would be required to pay the lease in FULL before taking the?apartment. Well if i had that kind of money I wouldnt be applying to govt housing would I.....Let me toss this thought out, respectfully....If you live with a parent, be respectful. There all all kinds of family dynamics and some of them are unhealthy I know. But dont diss a parent who lets you live under their roof if you are an adult. They are probably not rolling in the money either. You CAN live without an expensive phone and you should contribute to the household in whatever way you can...cleaning, cooking, being kind to the parent who has always been there. Just some thoughts........Its not easy anywhere these daysI do agree that I am thankful for what my parents have done. My guess is that I would be in either a homeless shelter orgovernment?housing if not for them. This does not change, however, what I think of my situation. I know there are people like me out there. Educated with experience... Coming to these forums has made me realize it. I just never thought that in America, you can work hard, get aneducation, get good work experience and still be on the sidelines like you just stepped off the boat. Something is definitely wrong with the system.Honestly, I thought we would already be in another economic collapse by now. I try to keep up with as much?financial?and economic news as possible, and I honestly don't understand why this recovery is so good. I firmly believe that the?FederalReserve and the Treasury are propping up the US economy. First it was through quantitative easing, then holding down interest rates, the U.S. debt is ridiculous... Only a moron would claim the debt is ok as long as there is economic growth (Cheney once claimed this). I stop here because the rest of my thoughts borders on consparicy theories. But thisadministration?is so transparent... Should I believe the unemployment numbers are correct if the Department ofLabor?changes the rules on who should be counted? If the numbers are an accurate measure of the unemployment rate, why is the labor participation rate so low? If retirees are not going into retirement for economic reasons, (again) why is the labor participation rate so low? Why are there more people on?food?stamps now than there were 6 or 7 years ago? I could go on but I don't think most people pay attention. I think Obama won the last election by "swing state voter?fraud"... Funny really, considering I liked him in 2007/2008.I agree, our system is a mess in multiple ways. We want to work, have jobs, be self sufficient.......Times are changing and I spend more time these days pondering how I can change with it rather than job searching (I am in my late 50s ...I know its different for younger job seekers). Blessings!My folks are like this. Makes me mad enough to throw things.?My mother prints out job listings on Craigslist and shows them to me when I either a.) don't qualify for them at all, or b.) have already applied to them days ago.?My father will say crap like "there's a help wanted sign in the window at yada yada minimum wage location, why don't you go apply there?" And every time I try to explain why minimum wage blue collar jobs reject me for being "overqualified" he yells at me for being too picky. He doesn't get it. Neither of them do.It's a combination of there not being any jobs AND not being qualified (or being overqualified) for the jobs that are out there. We're screwed.EXACTLY what I've been going through for several years now! It saddens me knowing others are going through what I am, but I'm also glad to know there's people out there like me.?Just gotta remember I'm not crazy. People are blinded by the lies and we know the truth. I can't doubt myself anymore...gotta stay strong!?You guys need to stay strong too!?Sending lots of love where ever you guys are. People are wandering around aimlessly or acting completely nuts...This is just one of many such incidents around town.Most of the local papers seem to be avoiding these kinds of stories to keep up the official b.s. that our economy is just freakin' fantastic!Sometimes reality cracks through the facade we call the news. There was a news article circulating a while back about how Silicon Valley's tech startups were only interested in solving problems that pertained to their peer group--of young professionals. The news media is kind of the same in that it reflects the concerns of the people who make it it. NPR and Fox News are really the same in that regard--they're staffed by people whosecome from gated communities--you know, the top twenty percent of income earners and so the news reflects their concerns. Both the well-to-do on the Right and Left believe that a lack of success in America is a due to flaw in personal character and that's something our culture instills successfully in most people.For the the top twenty percent of income earners, the economy was great and very few of them, will acknowledge that they were negatively affected by The Great Recession because that would mean being looked at like losers in the eys of their peers.I have a joke about the Occupy movement.?Do you know why the Occupy 'movement' ended? The Occupy 'movement' ened because most of the Occupiers got accepted into grad schoool.We all know what happened after that. They graduated into a better economy and they got hired somewhere, and forgot about whatever they were pretending to care about. Yeah, I'm cynical like that.The only people who use the term 1% nowsadays seem to be people with strong ties to the public sector, such as public sector employees who fantasize about how raising taxes on the 1% would solve all all?government?budget problems.Honestly, I thought we would already be in another economic collapse by now. I try to keep up with as much?financial?and economic news as possible, and I honestly don't understand why this recovery is so good.Economists and most people who work in?finance?are more removed from reality than you'd like to think. They deal with abstraction and really abstract models--some of which are b.s. Besides, when was the last time an ECONOMIST accurately predicted anything? They barely understand markets, and that's their domain.?You're better off?consulting?a scientist or a physicist about where the economy is going. All the financial people are saying is that?government?debt is unsustainable.According to some supposedly reliable sources, more people are receiving public assistance than not at this point. Combine that with decreasing salaries for many people and higher prices on most consumer goods, well, all I can think is that it can't end well........sites/merrillmatthews/2014/07/02/weve-crossed-the-tipping-point-most-americans-now-receive-government-benefits/Don't take my questioning when someone?claims?that 1 in 4 to 1 in 3 of everyone in the country doesn't have a job for not sympathizing with the long-term unemployed and underemployed. I have a close friend who took over a year to find a job, but today he is employed. My sister-in-?law?has been laid off 2-3 times since 2008 and hates her current job, but she has one (and it pays well over the local median income). My girlfriend is in a job that doesn't make use of her degree and is rather low paying, but she is working.It is amazing to see how much people will and can put up with.?No matter how bad it gets, there are people who think things are okay.?The high tolerance for lowered standards of living, high inflation, cheap quality of manufactured items--including cars, lowered incomes yet increased workloads...people seem to want to put up with more and more and rationalize it.My daughter just told me a friend of hers thinks he is going to lose his job. The company is building a plant in good old MEXICO!!So why are they coming here??Is it the free?healthcare, welfare, foodstamps,?college, etc.??Because we are told they come here to work...?Now, most vegetables and fruits in the store come from Mexico, so they aren't coming here to pick crops.?What the heck is going on??Hi Xboxer, we wondered where you were!?Unless the US tightens up and stops letting Mexicans come in there, it's only going to get worse. Mexicans are also getting into Canada too. I just went on a website for a company about 30 mins from my house. When I got to the home page I had to select either English or Spanish!!!!!!Companies up here are wanting people who speak English,French?and Spanish!!!Maybe Mexico isn't facing a potential dust bowl situation, while California, which is MAJOR agricultural producer IS. Just a thought.I think everyone knows just how much produce came from California...From articles I have read...the Colorado River flows in the US. But Mexico demands their "fair share" of the water. The US even struck up a deal with them. The state of California has far less power than Mexico. One has to wonder why Mexico is so powerful.There are no other options because very few people know how to operate outside of civilization so they will put up with it because the only other option is to starve.?The things you are complaining about are the results of past economic growth . The lower quality of life has everything to do with more people competing fora share of declining stock nonrenewable resources that contribute heavily to a high standard of living. It really doesn't matter whether the immigrants stay in Mexico or come here. Simply by being alive and participating in the global economy, they will force your standard of living to go down.I don't think you're very in tune with this, or are even affected by it...but yours and my tax dollars are supporting them coming here and getting free?healthcare, free?college, free money for whatever here. That's NOT what the American system had in mind, when charity care was considered for people.It does matter if people come here en masse. You're sounding like the media who wants us to believe all of these people coming here and draining our nation is a good thing for us...Hi Xboxer, we wondered where you were!?Unless the US tightens up and stops letting Mexicans come in there, it's only going to get worse. Mexicans are also getting into Canada too. I just went on a website for a company about 30 mins from my house. When I got to the home page I had to select either English or Spanish!!!!!!Companies up here are wanting people who speak English,French?and Spanish!!!Sometimes, it's hard to come on here and see people advocating our nation being invaded. I bet some of them have no contact or personal experience with this situation. They think the world is one big happy sandbox.?hope your parents some day come to realize your situation.Fat f***ing chance of that ever happening. My parents both work AND own their own?business?and are doing just peachy. They are totally blind to what the unemployed are going through. Always will be.?Half an hour ago I overheard my father saying this about me: "she contributes nothing to this household anymore and it's gotta stop." Um, OK, and what exactly am I supposed to contribute with no income?Stare into the abyss and the abyss stare in Texas said:?I think many older people don't really understand because they lived through a different time. Jobs were plentiful and having a degree was not necessary. It's not the same job market as what I saw and lived through... and I am only 42. My parents really don't pester me about not working but I do stay busy. Living out in the country always gives work. It's different if you live in a metropalitan area and unfortunate that your parents don't see that.1.) Degrees still aren't necessary, and if colleges continue to use students as their personal piggy banks while the economy takes a dump on itself, then less and less people will have degrees.2.) There are no age restrictions on ignorance. I know plenty of unemployed people older than my folks who know EXACTLY what I'm going through because they're going through the same thing.3.) I live in a rural area of a metropolitan county. There's all the difference. My family owns 2 horses and I grew up going to rodeos. Live in the sticks, work in the?city...that's how it's always been.There's something pathological about people who think the whole world is gravy.2.) There are no age restrictions on ignorance. I know plenty of unemployed people older than my folks who know EXACTLY what I'm going through because they're going through the same thing.You are right on this one. From?college?grads to people who lost their jobs close to retirement, it's affected everyone. If you listen to the news, they make it sound like a few college grads can't find jobs. They always minimize things.So why are they coming here??Is it the free?healthcare, welfare, foodstamps,?college, etc.??Because we are told they come here to work...?Now, most vegetables and fruits in the store come from Mexico, so they aren't coming here to pick crops.?What the heck is going on??I sometimes think immigrants have been the victims of a snow job also. They bought that old lyric "only in America...land of opportunity". Our immigrant problem in Maine is Middle Easterners. I'm beginning to think the next language employers ask you to speak will be?Arabic.Welcome back, by the way, from wherever you were.I just got tired of hearing people justify this "immigrant" stuff. People who came here illegally are not immigrants. That's the media's renaming that. Undocumented workers, etc. Immigrants are people who come here to really want to be part of America. The mass of people coming here for all of the free stuff are not contributing.Most of us are struggling, and these people get so much free. Someday, the money will run out, and they will have to find another national sugar daddy.Fat f***ing chance of that ever happening. My parents both work AND own their ownbusiness?and are doing just peachy. They are totally blind to what the unemployed are going through. Always will be.?Half an hour ago I overheard my father saying this about me: "she contributes nothing to this household anymore and it's gotta stop." Um, OK, and what exactly am I supposed to contribute with no income?1.) Degrees still aren't necessary, and if colleges continue to use students as their personal piggy banks while the economy takes a dump on itself, then less and less people will have degrees.2.) There are no age restrictions on ignorance. I know plenty of unemployed people older than my folks who know EXACTLY what I'm going through because they're going through the same thing.3.) I live in a rural area of a metropolitan county. There's all the difference. My family owns 2 horses and I grew up going to rodeos. Live in the sticks, work in the?city...that's how it's always been.I agree...Most of us always viewed the higher?education?field as some kind of reverent and pure institution.?Learning was held up as something sacrosanct.Now, most colleges are just money mills.I don't think you're very in tune with this, or are even affected by it...but yours and my tax dollars are supporting them coming here and getting free?healthcare, free?college, free money for whatever here. That's NOT what the American system had in mind, when charity care was considered for people.I'm almost flattered that you think I'm doing well enough that I'm not affected by a growing?labor?supply domestically, and throughout the world. I'm not exactly a member of the professional class, who get paid to use their brains. I have anaccounting?question. What tax dollars are subsidizing illegal immigration? Since less people are paying into the system, it's increasingly the tax revenue of those who are so far up on the skills/income chain that they are unaffected by illegal immigration who may be paying for it...or not paying for it...if state and?federal?deficits are any indication. The U.S. is probably in the same situation as much of Europe...I have no grasp of what is being paid for with tax revenue anymore and what is being paid with debt but the debt levels tell me that there is a lot of things that aren't being paid for with revenue.Employers blacklisting the long term unemployed is getting really old. Employers have way too much power these days and the official unemployment numbers are ridiculously low.Recently I watched the movie, Blue Jasmine. The movie is about a wealthy woman who loses her mind after her husband turns out to be a Bernie Madoff type character and she loses all her wealth and prestige. I keep thinking about that movie as I have come across quite a few people who have clearly lost their mind.People are wandering around aimlessly or acting completely nuts. At the local?library?one guy punched an elderly?librarianbecause he thought she was following him? Several patrons tackled him and held him until the police arrived. This is just one of many such incidents around town.Most of the local papers seem to be avoiding these kinds of stories to keep up the official b.s. that our economy is just freakin' fantastic!True. It seems the last few years people have been acting more strange. Having shorter tempers as well.I'm almost flattered that you think I'm doing well enough that I'm not affected by a growing?labor?supply domestically, and throughout the world. I'm not exactly a member of the professional class, who get paid to use their brains. I have an?accounting?question. What tax dollars are subsidizing illegal immigration? Since less people are paying into the system, it's increasingly the tax revenue of those who are so far up on the skills/income chain that they are unaffected by illegal immigration who may be paying for it...or not paying for it...if state and?federal?deficits are any indication. The U.S. is probably in the same situation as much of Europe...I have no grasp of what is being paid for with tax revenue anymore and what is being paid with debt but the debt levels tell me that there is a lot of things that aren't being paid for with revenue.Wow, I can't even believe you asked someone on a forum this.?You can find all of that out via the net.?Second, why are you in favor of people coming here illegally, when we have such a lack of jobs??Our population isn't a "growing labor supply domestically". Most Americans aren't even having kids, and when they are, it's one or two.?The population is growing because the?government?keeps bringing people in.In a nation that can't even keep it's citizens employed, we don't need that.America has enough people to work, and enough "talent" and brains here. Period.I can't understand why you'd be against protecting our citizens.Probably just as an equal of a threat or even a bigger threat is these HB1 Visas for workers to come here and work because they end up taking good paying technical and skilled jobs away from us unlike the illegals taking the lower paid jobs. Companies use these Visas for cheap?labor.So soon you won't be able to get a low paying job because of the illegals and won't get a good paying job because of HB1 Visas.Illegals are draining the public assistance and HB1's, the jobs. I posted not too long ago about how the govt is planning on letting more HB's in. There are all sorts of technicalities to allow more and more in.Soon, we will be trying to get out.The whole world is coming here, and America is not what it used to be. How can it, with so much draining us? People don't care, but they will. They will want to get out.People come here and demand we speak Spanish. Yet, see...you'd never consider any place just?catering?like that. Shows the difference. Americans are a LOT better than anyone portrays us as.Are there any countries where Americans and Canadians can immigrate to?I don't know of any really good places in the world right now...wish I did.?America doesn't want us. Yet, America wants people who come here with no?education, no trade, even criminals, and extends all kinds of benefits to them. Citizenship doesn't mean much anymore.Neither does the constitution...I don't know of any really good places in the world right now...wish I did.?America doesn't want us. Yet, America wants people who come here with no?education, no trade, even criminals, and extends all kinds of benefits to them. Citizenship doesn't mean much anymore.No citizenship don't mean diddly squat anymore. Our countries have been destroyed by letting ANYONE in to them. We need new political parties in both of our countries, one that will fight for our rights!Well, what's the alternative? "Protest" by refusing to work? Leave the country like you've suggested in other posts? I'd prefer to make-do just as long as I need to. If the current economy has taught me anything, it's that I don't want to rely on a job my whole life. I'm working hard to get out of debt now, so that when I finish my doctorate, and hopefully start earning a "real" income, I can afford to save 30-50% of my income with the goal of ramping up my quest to build extra streams of income.You're one of the few people that actually understands and gets it. Money is pure evil. I wish we could live without it I really do. Maybe then people wouldn't go on power trips. *shrugs*I'm tired of all of the BS envolved with searching for?full timeemployment and feel strongly if someone is unable to speak English that shouldn't be the employers problem- they should be bringing their own interpreter with them.?We as job seekers should not need to learn another language!I think most employers don't see non-English speaking customers as a "problem" but rather as an opportunity to tap into another market. For example, the IKEA in NYC offerschild care?while parents shop. Why? Not because they see it as a problem, but as an opportunity to pull in parents to their store because they have an advantage to?furniture?stores that don't offer that service. Same with employers around the language issue: to them, it's all about outdoing or keeping up with the competition for different audiences.Welcome back, xboxer! I agree. I think it is rough everywhere in terms of employment. I'm really disappointed in the U.S. We don't have an official language, so we have all of these illegals come in here and demand us to speak Spanish. I've had these Hispanics get angry at me for not knowing Spanish well. WTF! Why is it that the U.S. doesn't have a mandatory test for English language fluency and a requirement to speak English in order to work. They have that in other countries like France.Just watched Global News Toronto. First thing on the news...40% of all people ages 15-29 do not have jobs in Ontario. Why? because you can't get a job without experience, and you can't get experience without a job. Mayor of Toronto, John Tory was shown at Starbucks explaining this situation on the news. God bless Starbucks for being the first?business?to tackle this issue and hire more people without experience!!!It's about time someone took a stand on this issue!!!******************************************************************Starbucks fine for?college?and high school students, but that is NOT a career and livable wage unless you live at home. Just more of those low end service jobs Obama?admin?brags about job creation.Just watched Global News Toronto. First thing on the news...40% of all people ages 15-29 do not have jobs in Ontario. Why? because you can't get a job without experience, and you can't get experience without a job. Mayor of Toronto, John Tory was shown at Starbucks explaining this situation on the news. God bless Starbucks for being the first?business?to tackle this issue and hire more people without experience!!!It's about time someone took a stand on this issue!!!******************************************************************This is awesome. The media needs to do more stories like this, especially needed in the US, instead of the usual "unemployment is down" crap.Exactly!!! Unemployment is getting WORSE!!! No one is telling the truth. I can't even get a freaking job!!!! I don't know what to do anymore.There's something very "iron curtain" about the way the media is handling things. Like they don't want us to know how bad it really is. The "height" of the recession wasn't 2009 - it's right now. And it's only going to get worse.I meant to add...it's not like we expect the media to tell the truth, like ever. But my God, if they can cover Lindsay Lohan's latest bender, they can certainly expose the REAL unemployment numbers. #prioritiesThere's something very "iron curtain" about the way the media is handling things. Like they don't want us to know how bad it really is. The "height" of the recession wasn't 2009 - it's right now. And it's only going to get worse.I dunno. I suspect they are just like the rest of the working world receiving a decent salary. I think they are simply oblivious and in the back of their minds believe that people who are not working are lacking initiativeYep had this happen to me in the great?city?that is Chicago. Had me go through a phone screening/reference screening/a phone interview with?hr?and then when i hit a in-person interview with head of department he low balls me and drops the salary offer to 28k from 35k because he would have to train me in something that wasnt even mentioned anywhere within the job postings or anytime prior to that interview.The whole interview he make it quite clear that he wanted someone who was overexpierenced for what was a?entry leveljob that was a underpaying one at that. Whats worse is that i did not hear back from them and they never responded to my follow up.Now this is the third time this month ive seen the job relisted with changes ofcourse that being they want someone who has a degree and lowered the salaryThey just want the most experience person for the lowest possible wage. And because of high unemployment, they are getting away with it.On another forum I read, a forum user from Arizona posted a job ad for his?businessrecently for an opening for a $12.75 an hour job and he said he got 400 apps for ONE position. Yep, the economy is strong.I was visiting relatives in Maine and saw a line around the Auburn Mall for?call center?jobs. Hundreds of people were standing in the cold to get a minimum or close to minimum wage job? Oh and we went into the mall and most of the store fronts were vacant.Yet I keep hearing on the news about the low unemployment and how the economy is booming?Malls seem do be dying a slow death. You can tell each year less and less people shopping there during Christmas. Like I live by a mall and when I moved back here in 2002 it was VERY busy from Thanksgiving to New Years. Traffic would be terrible because of the mall. Then about 8 or so years ago it really started slowing down. The last two black Fridays have been nowhere near what they used to be.People are buying more stuff online because it's cheaper than a lot of the overpriced stuff at the mall.Good point. Actually that mall is probably the wave of the future. Half of the mall is now a?call center?and the other half is a mostly empty mall. They might as well turn the entire thing into one gigantic call center.Seems to be the way jobs are going. Tons and tons of crappy low paying jobs, a minimal amount of middle class jobs, and a tiny handful of top jobs.Not to mention this so-called recovery is fueled by subprime car loans and home mortgages, companies buying back stocks, and the?government?doing everything possible to put lipstick on a warthog. I fear that our next recession is going to make the?financial?crisis of 2008, look like a slow ride to grandma's house.The fact of the matter, in my opinion of course, the only people with jobs are the following:1) Someone who had a long, stable career, before the recession. (Factory, warehouse, or?college?degree with a good job worker)2)?Fast food3) Anything medical, particularly?CNA'S, at least in my town.That's about it. Of course there's people in the military, famous people who lucked out in life, etc.Basically, the only REAL jobs are cruddy ones that have crap pay (food?industry) OR good pay provided you work there for a certain amount of years. (Warehouse, hospitals, etc)The downside, again, being crap working conditions and jerk bosses/supervisors.Don't even get me started on call centers. Lmao. No...just no...That's why I miss working in a small retail environment. I.e Kohls, TJ Maxx, etc.?They actually value their employees to a degree, whereas any major employer does not. I.e Walmart, Lowes, Target, etc.There's practically no REAL jobs out there despite what people keep saying. Just the same 9-5 that everyone had for years before the economy tanked.?If you got laid off, sucks to be you. If you were lucky to stay on, you're one of those going to that fancy restaurant every week with cash to blow. :PThat's why young adults and the elderly are the ones most affected by this. Things aren't all cut and dry like everyone keeps making it out to be.?Throw discrimination, bullying, and employers firing people for absurd reasons into the mix and its no wonder why eveything has gone to the dogs.?We need a revolution. Cause when things finally do hit rock bottom. It ain't gonna be pretty. I'm only in my twenties and even I can see through all the bs nowadays.I thought I had friends until I became unemployed. 3 people I use to know all came into money last year. They all stopped texting me and just ditched me.Welcome to my world. - Insert picture of an angry panda here -Again, I repeat, it's a sick world we live in. Especially when your friends and family care more about money than you or each other.It's why I've been a loner my whole life. After graduating high school in 2010, I've come to realize that most (not all, but rather close) people are snakes in the grass and out for themselves.I try not to let the betrayal I've endured turn me into a bitter, hateful person, but it's hard sometimes.On another forum I read, a forum user from Arizona posted a job ad for his?businessrecently for an opening for a $12.75 an hour job and he said he got 400 apps for ONE position. Yep, the economy is strong.The media will just you to cut back. I heard a radio show going on about how if someone makes over $75K a year, it won't "make you happy". What the heck, of course money won't make you "happy", whatever "happy" means, but it's a tool to get what you need. If you could make a lot of money, you can save it. This will allow someone to eventually escape Slaveryhood.The dumb media thinks everyone just wants money to spend at malls, sports bars, sporting?events, vacations, and gambling.?Not all of us live like that. If I made over 75K a year, I'd keep living as frugally as I am now, and salt it away. I think people who just spend their money like some hobby are dumb.Remember all of this, when you hear the politicians of BOTH parties going on about jobs, and the rights of foreigners in the US. The pols give them more attention and power than the citizens.?If, today, the nation suddenly had the HBs, illegals, you name it, vaporized away, you'd have a job.And, an addendum...People are taught to be "nice" and like "everybody".They don't want to look exclusionary or in favor of themselves.They are being taught everyone else out there is more important.Until people shake this off, and stop letting themselves be manipulated by the media and their agendas, things won't change.Until modern times, every group on every continent looked out for their own welfare, and yeah, that means wars to maintain control over their land and their interests. Was it always right? Of course not, but for the most part, people had the right idea.Americans are taught if they are nice to everyone else, it's the right thing to do, and they will be loved back. They even think if they become the disadvantaged, they will be treated in the manner they treated others.The rest of the world doesn't think this way. If they gain control of the US and are able to repopulate it, they aren't going to "help" us or treat us like a minority.This is why History, real History, is SO important.Most people just don't want to look at what really is going on. They complain about the lack of jobs, the increasing inflation rates, the overpopulation, the crime, the drugs, etc.?Most people don't want to connect the dots, because they are taught it's being "not nice", "stereotyping", etc. They want to believe that all people are inherently good, and this is not true. There are people you might perceive as?"nice" or "friendly", but they might take advantage of the very system you pay into and hope will be there if you need it.?The more people buy into this world holding hands, globalization deal...the worse it gets. We are unable to protect our real interests. We are unable to secure jobs and economic stability for ourselves. We are unable to be safe in ways we used to count on. Our schools are ravaged by dumbing down of curricula and crime. More and more money is poured into them and it never stops. Yet,?education?isn't better for most, because it's the special interests getting the money.Until people want to get comfortable addressing things, nothing will change. When people just chant mantras, like "all of our ancestors were immigrants" and try to whitewash the whole thing, nothing will change. Comparing things NOW to what happened in the 1920s and 1930s is just insane. Our nation promotes people coming here to take our jobs.It's time for America to grow up and stop being "nice". We have had too many Trojan horses dumped on our shores. Americans don't want to face things and are in denial. They think they can still have the American Dream. They don't get it that most of them will never own a home or have a decent paying job or get ahead.If you say this, they call you a "pessimist", a "racist", a "xenophobe", and more...just to shut you down. You're supposed to swallow what is happening and take it on the chin. But reality IS reality. Many people do NOT see what is going on, and live sheltered lives. Those are the people who "love all."This isn't about being "mean" or hating anyone.?This is about protecting ourselves and not being fools.Most people are barely having any kids, not even the 2.5 to replace themselves. So you have to look at where the overpopulation is coming from.?They aim "overpopulation" at American citizens, though. Not at the people actually having all of the kids...The supply/demand thing is easy.?Too many people and not enough jobs.?When there are too many people for even the low wage jobs, there isn't much to bail yourself out with, when you can't find something in your field. Nor is there much?financial?help when you need it, because it's being siphoned off.Too many people means you will be treated less than by employers.?If there weren't enough people to do the jobs in your field, employers would be courting you to get you to work there with perks, pay, and just plain being nice to you.Immigration is really affecting the "too many people" factor.?Not enough jobs is the jobs going overseas. We have lost whole industries to overseas.This isn't about being "mean" or hating anyone.?This is about protecting ourselves and not being fools.The thing is, this crap will eventually affect everyone. No one will be able to afford anything. And with all the temp jobs, no one will be able to buy a house or car. Same goes forcollege/university students loaded with debt, they won't be buying anything either for the next 20 years. Probably because they will be working for survival wage too.Yes, it's going on everywhere.?Foreigners can come here and get money for college, money to live on, even money for the trip over here.?More and more people come here and the door is wide open, the welcome mat is out, and the money is there. There always seems to be money available for this stuff, but look how they cut your unemployment.It's not "trendy" to be against immigration.Most people are barely having any kids, not even the 2.5 to replace themselves. So you have to look at where the overpopulation is coming from.?They aim "overpopulation" at American citizens, though. Not at the people actually having all of the kids...The supply/demand thing is easy.?Too many people and not enough jobs.?When there are too many people for even the low wage jobs, there isn't much to bail yourself out with, when you can't find something in your field. Nor is there much?financial?help when you need it, because it's being siphoned off.Too many people means you will be treated less than by employers.?If there weren't enough people to do the jobs in your field, employers would be courting you to get you to work there with perks, pay, and just plain being nice to you.Immigration is really affecting the "too many people" factor.?Not enough jobs is the jobs going overseas. We have lost whole industries to overseas.Pretty true about the financial help. We shouldn't have to need it tho. When you rely on the?governmentwholeheartedly that just causes problem. It's too easy to be controlled that way. Not to mention if you're an able bodied person you should be independent in as many ways as you can. It's a waste of?federal?money. I say this obv as a person on Section 8. I would much rather them cut me off if it meant in return I know I will get a steady income for myself. I don't like relying on them AT ALL.?Yeah that's another reason why it's difficult to keep going because you know there is so much competition so you would have to be the best to get a job not just be able to do it and how do you be the best? You can only be you and be as good as you are.I notice lately also more and more people are charging stuff on?credit?rather than using their debit card or paying cash.I'm a?cashier?and they pay with mastercard, Visa or Discover usually. This is a hardware store in a fairly well off area. Not rich but upper middle class and that. You think they would use cash or debit card instead of credit but even for little things.Even a few years ago you would see more people still using a debit card and cash. Now it's like everyone just busts out the ole credit card. You want that expensive watch, just put it on charge.With a lot of people making less money and underemployed do they just not care anymore and charge everything and worry about the bill later?Case in point..South Florida: for a?Graphic Design?position, you have to have 30 different skills sets ala, web?design?, motion?graphics?, photography, etc all in getting paid peanuts. From what I heard from a friend (who leaves in Maryland) in Washington, DC and Maryland, they pay you to be a?Graphic Designer?only (no html, coding, web, etc...), Web?Designer?only and Web Developer (no designing, strictly back end). Not sure how it is in other industries and other states but dang they sound strict in finding a candidate that's not a Jack-Of-All-Trades!Here in Chicago I am running into much of the same. I work as a web designer and web developer, but I am astounded by the horrible salaries many job openings are offering for skilled employees.I hear the usual song and dance of how "the economy is just bad right now", but I don't buy it. not when I am watching executives make big bonuses, and companies able to throw lavish?events?for the industry.Only advice I can give is to stand your ground when an employer tries to lowball you, and to ignore all those job ads where they seem to want a?graphic?designer, web developer, and IT technician. granted these companies will then sit tight and wait for this unicorn while thinking they're doing just fine with less payroll, but that is not your problem.The line has to be drawn somewhere, and it's time we all get paid what we are worth.Times like these only further separate lower and upper class citizens, while eradicating a middle class. Who do you think is saying the economy is getting better? You think poor men are creating and delivering the news? The news is not to inform us or keep us updated. As one of my teachers once said, it's only for the sponsors and investors, not the average man. It's not meant to keep you warm at night.If you think it's bad in the US, I hear England/Britain/UK is even worse. Sad times.there was a small demonstration here last week by some union workers advocating for a $15/hr?min. wage. A former mayor was a speakr there. I was surprised he spoke up. The min. wage here is 9.15/hr but nobody can live off that as it's an expensive area to live in. Most of the jobs I have applied to don't pay more than $13/hr. Asking for $15 would have felt like too much.Now as it happened found 2 office jobs in the paper & thinking bout applying tho don't really meet the qualifications for either. one is for a?catering/office?assistant?and they actually PREFER someone w a?college?degree. Have no clue WHERE this job is, the county is big and most jobs in the paper have no co. name listed. this one has a g-mail address to send resume to with something like HR1234 as the address. I don't know why some co make these ads so secret. I don't feel comfortable applying somewhere I have no clue where and not sure it even a real job ad. What is odd about that ad is you have to have switchboard experience. I've answered multiple lines, like 3 but never worked a switchboard, I don't think there are too many jobs left where they still do that, most use a single line and an?electronicphone tree. You also need to be proficient in MS Office, which I only "know" vaguely. It must be a bigger co. as they have a weekly sched. of?events?the office assist. needs to maintain. I imagine this may be for a private country club, hope it's not one I have applied to before.2nd. job is for a earth moving co. - website is very poorly done, most of the links don't open and the "staff" webpage lists only the principals. Someone used font that is too big so 1/2 the pages are not readable as the letters transpose on each other unless you shrink the page to 75%. they basically expect this office staff person to do EVERYTHING but fix the kitchen sink, maybe that too, they ARE looking for a "self starter"... Ad reads more like a?bookkeeping?job & has "competitive" pay, hmmm.UK & US are pretty dead even in terms of what's officially reported. Whether the UK doctors their numbers like the US I haven't researched.Spot on about the media though.Endoftheword, I never apply to gmail addresses. I don't trust those ads.As far as the demonstration, more people should do it. No one can live off minimum wage. We need a union for minimum wages that work for Wal Mart, Mc D's, Wendy's, Target,?Home Depot.Minimum wage to above $15 is not a living wage, much agreed. But on the other side, if all the wages go up, what are going to be some of the consequences?Companies closing. Companies looking for ways to reduce costs (i.e.?fire/lay off even more workers). Inflation. People then complaining that $15 is way too low to live on due to higher prices.And that's just to name a few things.I agree, raising the minimum wage is at best a short term solution. After all, these jobs are suppose for those looking for pocket money or supplemental income, not to live off of. The real issue is the lack of living wage,?entry level?(with reasonable requirements) and manufacturing jobs for people to move up into.THAT is the key word "supposed" to. In reality once you work in retail/hospitality?as a gap job say for a year or more, that is likely ALL you will be hired to do. I know of someone who had a decent job in the mortgage industry and lost her job at the beginning of the Recession, she went into retail and is STILL there, now with 10-20 cent raises she's is making about $10/hr. living w her parents and trying to save $ but she also had to buy another car so there went her savings plus when you rent, the LL goes by your CURRENT salary as to what you can afford so most rents are out of the questionI don't think people realize that low wage jobs are NOT just for teens or retirees trying to earn a supplemental income ANYMORE. These jobs are a way of life for many. Before I got my last job as an office assist, had a holiday retail job for a few weeks, i'd only worked there for THREE weeks but it was difficult to explain to the boss who ultimately hired me that i'd only taken this job for the $ NOT because being acashier?was my profession. I was paid $10/hr and the job before that $19, they could not justify paying me more than $16 since your net worth is often based on the last job you heldwhile the vast majority of store clerks are young there are quite a few who look older & look out of place. I can imagine it was desperation that drove them to be a check-out gal/guy NOT because they just needed pocket change. It also difficult to work more than 1 retail job due to the crazy schedules of different shifts each week.Of course others will blame the EE for lacking initiative to advance to better jobs & it is assumed for office/entry leveljobs that one is married/partnered and doesn't rely on that income to live on in my experience.Workers everywhere will be claiming they need to make at least $16 or more if min wage is now $15. I don't know about this "fight for $15" I do understand, believe me. You're so right that it's not just teens in summer job programs anymore, people are working in?fast food, wal-mart, Kohls, etc and making a living off of that. I see a lot of older workers in Wendy's and White Castle and they probably have been working there for years. I also agree that the more/longer you work those jobs the harder it is to get out of them. The transition is basically impossible.I feel that with the positions I have in offices so I can imagine trying to go from fast?food?to retail. I worked at Burger King for 4 months and that was long enough.I'm not sure about the $15/hour minimum wage. What happens when folks currently making $15/hour will then be making the minimum wage and the same thing as part-time workers down at the Mickey D's? Seems like the price of everything will be jacked up and those people previously making $15/hour are going to be screwed because their salaries will not go up. That's how I see it playing out. Middle class screwed again. I'll bet the very same people who are against a liveable wage are the same people who could themselves not live off a $10-14/hr?job. They expect other people to manage off it and are living in some kind of Life is Wonderful bubble thinking good paying jobs r a dime a dz. ANYONE can obtain.I just wasted my day on doing the job search on this site which I have not done since some time. Very depressing! About 10 yrs. ago I could have qualified for ANY office job, no longer. And a positive attitude was actually a requirement on more than a few jobs? Jesus. Am going out for a walk in the pouring rain now, feel really disgusted!We all say 'you can't live off min wage' but sadly many people can and do. They live with others, get assistance, live in poverty and use?credit?to help them love, burying themselves in debt (most anyway).I would joke with my friends about $30,000 a year being a goldmine and that really ain't that much, but according to an employer you'd think that was 100k the way they act. I know my last office manager would have said 'you need to do 11 more?full time?jobs for that kind of pay!' I have thought that even $35,000 would be decent for me, and I know employers would balk at that. And it makes me feel crappy I should feel like I don't even deserve that much. This is why you get workers who act the way they act. We are tired of working so hard for so little.The job market still seems to be pretty frozen. I'm still not seeing much out there. However, I did get a call back and had an interview recently. I'd applied for the job in the first third of the last quarter last year. The interview was scheduled three weeks in advance. They said they'd know sometime in May. That's about all I can say about it. I'll take the call back as a positive and go from there.Meanwhile, at gulag, things just continue to suck. Volume of work is insanely through the roof. Atmosphere is a constant state of tension and fear as well as backstabbing. Nobody can be trusted. And then there are the talkers/do nothings--most of whom are related to someone or know someone. And the bootlickers. And then hanging over the whole thing is a situation which will one day lead to the demise of this completely insane workplace. But the employees are too dumb to realize it. I walk out of this place in tatters on an almost daily basis due to this insanity. I have friends who cannot believe I'm still an inmate at this dump. But I have little choice given the job market. Ugh.I'm not sure about the $15/hour minimum wage. What happens when folks currently making $15/hour will then be making the minimum wage and the same thing as part-time workers down at the Mickey D's? Seems like the price of everything will be jacked up and those people previously making $15/hour are going to be screwed because their salaries will not go up. That's how I see it playing out. Middle class screwed again.You should hear my sister complaining. She would be the first one demanding more if people at Taco Bell are making $15 an hour. And I highly doubt (I'm certain) that if this passed that those currently making $15 are not going to shoot up to $18, $19 an hour and up. And if it did, they will heap on 8 more job duties too, maybe even eliminating workers and making those who want more money do their jobs if they expect to get paid more. Also, employers wanting to pay $12 and $13 an hour, people will be yelling 'you aren't even paying minimum wage!"It's not just the pay, but the employers expectations need an entire overhaul. Money is the main thing, but with any extra nickle they want an extra hour of work, or to do 4 more jobs in 1, or want you trained on 2 or 3 more things to do. I know employers will really expect robo-worker and then, AGAIN, even $15 probably won't seem much. Nothing evens out.Meanwhile, at gulag, things just continue to suck. Volume of work is insanely through the roof. Atmosphere is a constant state of tension and fear as well as backstabbing. Nobody can be trusted. And then there are the talkers/do nothings--most of whom are related to someone or know someone. And the bootlickers. And then hanging over the whole thing is a situation which will one day lead to the demise of this completely insane workplace. But the employees are too dumb to realize it. I walk out of this place in tatters on an almost daily basis due to this insanity. I have friends who cannot believe I'm still an inmate at this dump. But I have little choice given the job market. Ugh.That was my last job in a nutshell.?Employers often ask why I stayed in such a toxic environment for so long and they don't understand that you take what you can get because there's nothing out there.I agree, raising the minimum wage is at best a short term solution. After all, these jobs are suppose for those looking for pocket money or supplemental income, not to live off of. The real issue is the lack of living wage,?entry level?(with reasonable requirements) and manufacturing jobs for people to move up into.Problem with that is our?government?are a bunch of terd flinging monkeys or clowns. Take your pick.?My dad lost his job back in 08 at Anvil knitwear. Why? They shipped the plant overseas and everyone working for them lost their jobs.?The same thing happened to my grandmother and beacon. It burnt to the ground shortly thereafter which we all thought was rather funny. Better than seeing an empty building there to remind people of why they're now worrying about a source of income.Plants and warehouses are hard work though.?Collegedegrees should be netting people the big fish so to speak. But with how corrupt our government is and how brainwashed the average american is, change or a possible solution to the job crisis won't happen anytime soon.?Most people don't think there is a problem. Either that or they're afraid of losing their job so they keep their mouth shut and continue to be the mindless slave that they are.?Cause that's how corrupt the world is. People with the vast majority of wealth keeps the rest of society on it's knees.You should hear my sister complaining. She would be the first one demanding more if people at Taco Bell are making $15 an hour. And I highly doubt (I'm certain) that if this passed that those currently making $15 are not going to shoot up to $18, $19 an hour and up. And if it did, they will heap on 8 more job duties too, maybe even eliminating workers and making those who want more money do their jobs if they expect to get paid more. Also, employers wanting to pay $12 and $13 an hour, people will be yelling 'you aren't even paying minimum wage!"It's not just the pay, but the employers expectations need an entire overhaul. Money is the main thing, but with any extra nickle they want an extra hour of work, or to do 4 more jobs in 1, or want you trained on 2 or 3 more things to do. I know employers will really expect robo-worker and then, AGAIN, even $15 probably won't seem much. Nothing evens out.Exactly. That sort of chain reaction is why we're in this mess.We all say 'you can't live off min wage' but sadly many people can and do. They live with others, get assistance, live in poverty and use?credit?to help them love, burying themselves in debt (most anyway).I would joke with my friends about $30,000 a year being a goldmine and that really ain't that much, but according to an employer you'd think that was 100k the way they act. I know my last office manager would have said 'you need to do 11 more?full time?jobs for that kind of pay!' I have thought that even $35,000 would be decent for me, and I know employers would balk at that. And it makes me feel crappy I should feel like I don't even deserve that much. This is why you get workers who act the way they act. We are tired of working so hard for so little.Heck the last guy that interviewed me wanted to pay only 30k for something he was demanding a 4 year degree for and wanted?driving?between multiple?business?sites. Then some other company for the same position "entry level" wanted to do 6 month to hire but wanted 5 years experience in the field.I tried to post several news stories about H1B visa?fraud?but apparently my comment keeps getting blocked.From the comment section of one of the stories I was not allowed to post, "...But you see, employers are just so use to Americans NOT fighting back." Sad irony in this comment.Yes, that's all true. When I was working they let me know how much they wanted me to become a manager or have a high-level position (even though they've never had one!) Now that I'm unemployed my mother tells me things like "If I was in your shoes and had your degrees right now I would be unstoppable!" Oh brother.lol Yep, it figures. Most parents have ridiculous expectations for their?children. I think they fail to realize that people lose potential as they age. Many parents also have insecurities about failure themselves so they hold their kids to delusional standards and push them to do the impossible. All parents do this to some extent...all kids face a pressure to be perfect. Just some parents take it to pathological extremes. Best you can do in the latter situation is realize that they have issues and you can't fix them and just get yourself away from the constant criticism.Employers just don't grasp what the jobs situation is out there.The top dog at gulag was talking on his cell phone right in the office in front of several people. "There's thousands of jobs out there. Arrrgh."The guy is in outer space--not only for that statement but for many reasons. It also must be so cool to do no work and to get paid for doing work you didn't do. Fancy, that.Yep. As I've said time and time again, they really don't get it. They don't get the desperation. They don't get "why" people are even looking for jobs in a frantic manner. They don't get that there are no good jobs out there. They don't see the deal with being fired, because you can "just" get a new job, to them. They don't care that you really need a job. They just don't get any of it. And god help you if you want to get into a conversation with them about it. It's not just employers. Anyone with a job is brainwashed by everyone else into believing that "everything is ok."EVERYONE knows what the hell is going on. But as Americans, we're taught from birth that if we close our eyes, turn away, and continue to ignore the problem, it'll simply "go away."The get over it and get used to it mentality. That's just the way it is.LOL.You should see the people in my town. That's the creed they live by.?Its like telling a homeless person if they quit being lazy and abusing drugs, they'd have a job and a home.LOL.Only 23 and I'm more than aware of the mind games, lies, and psychological warfare people use.?Sad thing is people think im naive and gullible.?Ha! xDThis is my parents' mentality exactly. "But the news says unemployment is down - it MUST be true!" If you don't have a job within a few months then obviously you're not trying and there's something very wrong with you. Now let me suggest 800 things you've already tried without success!UUUGGGHHH. -_-Given up in Asheville, North Carlina said: It's not just employers. Anyone with a job is brainwashed by everyone else into believing that "everything is ok."So true. I have a coworker who insists "I didn't have any trouble getting MY job". I tell her "congratulations, but don't drink the Koolaid." You have to let that crap fly over your head or it will drive you nuts. People like to be comforted by the load that the nightly news puts out for their consumption. They're clueless and they don't want to hear anything resembling the truth.So true. I have a coworker who insists "I didn't have any trouble getting MY job". I tell her "congratulations, but don't drink the Koolaid." You have to let that crap fly over your head or it will drive you nuts. People like to be comforted by the load that the nightly news puts out for their consumption. They're clueless and they don't want to hear anything resembling the truth.Agree 100%. Also they don't count those of us 'under' employed and still struggling!!?Hey haven't seen Leeann on here in a bit....I'm hoping it's bc she got something:)?I'm so tired of worrying about the future.?Next month will be one year since I've worked?full time, I've completely forgotten what it feels like not to be constantly looking, every day. I honestly can't even remember what I use to think about when I wasnt worring about work? Maybe I'm losing it!!!There seems to be two separate recoveries.In one world people didn't lose their jobs and they seem to not have too much trouble finding another one. Usually these individuals see nothing wrong with the erroneous unemployment numbers and overly optimistic economic numbers constantly spewed out by the MSM (Main Stream Media). Most of these people spend money as though the good times are here again and will be for a long time.In the other world, people lost/left their job and can't seem to find another one. This group either laughs/cries/both at the ridiculously positive economic numbers reported. Purchases have likely been curtailed.Call me a conspiracy theorist but I can't help but think some of this was planned. By forcing the "pain" onto one group - there is a greater chance that some people will give up looking for a job and this will help the unemployment numbers.On one hand, I can totally see this.?On the other hand, that's giving the?government, big businesses and investors?credit?for way more?intelligence?& forethought than they're actually capable of. ;)Gas prices down so people should have money to buy things right?But today the pitiful 2 percent growth number came out which totally screams out how bad it really is for the regular Joe.he more I listen to talk radio the more I realize these hosts have no idea what the middle class is going thru...Geraldo, Kudlow, Hannity.....Limbaugh does. He's been hammering the gubermint a lot about the bogus job numbers and how the average income is way down since the recession started for most workers. He says unemployment the real numbers are like around 25 percent range. I know many don't like him but at least he keeps bringing up the bogus numbers while Hannity just talks about the Middle East every day. Fox News doesn't even talk about the real job numbers much anymore.Get ready for more of the same when the Democrats wins in 2016 and the same people pump out the same monthly job stats.That's my fear... another 4 years of the Obamaadministration?policy or someone who will move thegovernment?needle further left. My next fear... someone from the far right. I've had some people tell me I should support Ran Paul but I'm not convinced I want to see another Senator in the White House with little experience in managing a?city?or state.My?general?opinion, any Democrat that has been mentioned in the news is a bad choice for the presidency. That being said, I have yet to see any potential Rupublican as a good choice. The ones I like are far down on the list as a potential candidate for the GOP. My greatest fear is lining up to a ballot box and having to choose between Clinton or Bush. Seems like a choice of the lesser of two evils.That's my fear... another 4 years of the Obama?administration?policy or someone who will move the?government?needle further left.Fear not. He cannot be elected again. I regret ever voting for him. I'm not ashamed to admit it - we all learn from our mistakes. :)I might vote for the other party come voting day, but it looks like they all spew the same BS and lie about the same sh*t, so i might just weep while letting the cards fall where they may.I am still employed but I really feel for all of those who are suffering, even if they have a terrible job, or if they are jobless. I PRAY something changes soon and that we actually get a capable leader in the White House soon who isn't blind and doesn't want to look "cool" for the sake of it. :/Sometimes I wonder what Obama is DOING with himself.?wasn't inclined toward conspiracy theories until confronting applicant software. Questions not indicative of psychological issues (I'm a 4 year psych/comm major). Key word searches that would indicate defective software. I asked Dept of?Laborif there are any regulations regarding employment software; the question is completely ignored. Personally, I am 99.9% certain about uncontrolled discrimination, age or otherwise.That's my fear... another 4 years of the Obama?administration?policy or someone who will move the?government?needle further left. My next fear... someone from the far right. I've had some people tell me I should support Ran Paul but I'm not convinced I want to see another Senator in the White House with little experience in managing acity?or state.My?general?opinion, any Democrat that has been mentioned in the news is a bad choice for the presidency. That being said, I have yet to see any potential Rupublican as a good choice. The ones I like are far down on the list as a potential candidate for the GOP. My greatest fear is lining up to a ballot box and having to choose between Clinton or Bush. Seems like a choice of the lesser of two evils.There is neither "left nor right." There isn't even a "middle of the bird" anymore. It's all RICH or POOR. There is NO "we, the people." Corporations own politicians/Congress. As an aside, I haven't seen Obama move anything anywhere except penalize poor people w/a tax penalty because we don't have $ for mandatory?health care?(a "tax?credit" doesn't help anyone who can't afford monthly?health?care costs!).Minimum wage to above $15 is not a living wage, much agreed. But on the other side, if all the wages go up, what are going to be some of the consequences?Companies closing. Companies looking for ways to reduce costs (i.e.?fire?/lay off even more workers). Inflation. People then complaining that $15 is way too low to live on due to higher prices.And that's just to name a few things.If companies pay higher wages, fewer employees will do more work. You can see it in job descriptions NOW, one person required to do jobs that were done by/require 2-3 people. Goods & services will cost more, so the increased wages won't help anyone. You don't think that the honchos @ companies ever penalizes themselves when corporate dividends go down, do you?Anyone else notice that once upon a speech, Obama commented that "for profit" schools should be investigated? Did that suggestion get buried quickly. Supports my suspicions that "for profit" school are only "cash cows" for some big corporation(s).?All offer the same courses for the same jobs as if that many of those jobs are ever available (except for nursing) or pay well enough to justify paying for the classes. Localcommunity?colleges offer some legit courses, but remember that those "legit colleges" have their own bills to pay, too.When I worked in thebank, the requirement was for tellers to be able to lift 25 lbs. It was a way to weed out the sick, the feeble and anyone contemplating a Workman's Comp case.I suppose that?HR?"presumes" all kinds of excuses for discrimination, including "overqualified." "Seniors" (40+ year olds) are "presumed" "sick/feeble/potential Workman's Comp" no matter what kind of employment history.?Lab?Corp had 3 job openings for which I was QUITE qualified, but the email I got stated that "HR thinks that I would probably want more $ than any of those jobs would pay." Psychic HR? Really?That's my fear... another 4 years of the Obama?administration?policy or someone who will move the?government?needle further left. My next fear... someone from the far right. I've had some people tell me I should support Ran Paul but I'm not convinced I want to see another Senator in the White House with little experience in managing acity?or state.My?general?opinion, any Democrat that has been mentioned in the news is a bad choice for the presidency. That being said, I have yet to see any potential Rupublican as a good choice. The ones I like are far down on the list as a potential candidate for the GOP. My greatest fear is lining up to a ballot box and having to choose between Clinton or Bush. Seems like a choice of the lesser of two evils.If that's the choice, I'll probably join my son who hasn't voted for years.Fear not. He cannot be elected again. I regret ever voting for him. I'm not ashamed to admit it - we all learn from our mistakes. :)I might vote for the other party come voting day, but it looks like they all spew the same BS and lie about the same sh*t, so i might just weep while letting the cards fall where they may.I, also vote for him TWICE. First term choice was between a borderline socialist on one side and an old warhorse looking for ANY scrap to get into, with a brainless, stumpjumpin' yahoo for a running mate on the other side. Second term choice was between a now outright socialist and a clueless billionaire. No party wants to put up a moderate ordinary individual, and if they do, they end up running their own agenda anyway. And what really slays me is the incredible amounts of money, BILLIONS, they spend getting elected, when that kind of money could help SO many people. Pay off mortgages and keep people from living in their cars. Fill?foodpantries to the freakin' ROOF, build permanent?housing?for homeless, disabled people. I hope they all choke on their campaign money.I did not vote for Obama the second time. As a Senator, he seemed to know what to say and when to say it. Once President, I really grasped what he was about. I do think there should be drastic changes to campaign?finance?but it seems like both parties push this prior to taking office, then do nothing once in office. Romney has billions but he does give more to charities than the other two bozos in the whitehouse. Either way, I saw it as the better of two evils for 2012. I don't think Romney's an idiot but I also don't think Obama is one either. They have an agenda... It's just a question of which agenda do you think will help the U.S. more. I think it's fine not to vote... It's a choice. However, the changes I see under Obama helps only those that want to live under?government?supervision and government aid. Handouts do not create opportunity or wealth. It creates a dependency that is only destine to collapse. Once you run out of someone else money, there is no money.Seems like 90% of job postings nowadays are from temp agencies. How I wish we could get them off indeed and craigslist. You spend more time trying to find legitimate jobs than applying to them!Yep. And they're even for decent jobs like accountants for example a lot of accountants are now hired as temps.Seems like 90% of job postings nowadays are from temp agencies. How I wish we could get them off indeed and craigslist. You spend more time trying to find legitimate jobs than applying to them!I know, right?! This seems to be the way 90% ofadministrative?professionals get hired these days because no one wants to give them a permanent position. It's outrageous.Went to the temp agency today. Drove 45 minutes to do another math test. This agency is associated with the other temp agency I registered with about a month ago. When I called yesterday, I was told they had some light work available. When I got there today, the girl said we cant hire you because of your arm. You will need a note from your doctor saying you can do repetitive work. Your registration says you cant do repetitive work. I told her no, I cant lift anything heavy that's what I said.TEMP AGENCIES=ALL LIESI learned last year that they are NOT what they once were. USELESS SCAMMERS now.The sad part is most of the people going to temp agencies are desperate for work. I have already applied to 2 more jobs since I got home and called a couple of employers.I'm sorry. I no longer apply at temp agencies although i have worked for 3 of them in my town. They rarely were up front about any job. I dont have the time or patience for that anymore.Life is one big game, we're the pawns, the world is our stage.Sounds cruel but it's true.?Everyone plays by their own rules and use religion/social norms to hide the truth.?That's why I'd rather be bluntly honest with people than deceitful.?Sooner or later, we'll all get what we deserve.?God help us if that day ever comes. I'm not religious, it's just a figure of speech. With a double meaning of course.?Point is, we should love one another and lift each other up.?All the greed, lies, hate, mind games, jealousy, etc. Is why our world is in the sad state of affairs it's in.?I've been battling anxiety a lot lately so I'm gonna lift you guys up while i still have the strength.Stay true to yourselves, demand respect and equality and most importantly, never give in or up!?*hugs everyone* What is unsettling is how many "entry level" paid jobs are now relegated to volunteer positions. It's like companies really are turning "we, the people" into servant slaves.Went to the temp agency today. Drove 45 minutes to do another math test. This agency is associated with the other temp agency I registered with about a month ago. When I called yesterday, I was told they had some light work available. When I got there today, the girl said we cant hire you because of your arm. You will need a note from your doctor saying you can do repetitive work. Your registration says you cant do repetitive work. I told her no, I cant lift anything heavy that's what I said.TEMP AGENCIES=ALL LIESGot a tax season 2014 job through a temp agency. Deducted the wrong?city?taxes from my pay, consistently messed up my time sheets & still owe me $, called me telling me that the assignment had ended & instructed me NOT to return to the job site, then told the ODJFS that I had "walked off the job" (I had opened the remaining 9 weeks of my previous unemployment claim) which I had to straighten out! Luckily, I kept their message on my answering machine!Talked w/a recruiter who I thought was?HR?for a company but was in an agency. Was cagey about the job location, the $ changed between internet ad & direct document from agency, never clearly stated hours or how timesheets would be entered . . . & direct document stated out of state laws applied, & I had to agree never to discuss my experience utilizing the agency. DECLINE!Here in Chicago I am running into much of the same. I work as a web?designer?and web developer, but I am astounded by the horrible salaries many job openings are offering for skilled employees.I hear the usual song and dance of how "the economy is just bad right now", but I don't buy it. not when I am watching executives make big bonuses, and companies able to throw lavish?eventsfor the industry.Only advice I can give is to stand your ground when an employer tries to lowball you, and to ignore all those job ads where they seem to want a?graphic designer, web developer, and IT technician. granted these companies will then sit tight and wait for this unicorn while thinking they're doing just fine with less payroll, but that is not your problem.The line has to be drawn somewhere, and it's time we all get paid what we are worth.Yes, execs don't eliminate a perk or reduce their income no matter what's going on w/a company, Instead, companies combine jobs to hire fewer people or turn once paid jobs into volunteer positions. It's removing the foundation of our economy, the workforce, that created the economic collapse as surely as removing the foundation of a building causes a building to fall. Most people don't need a degree in?business(or?architecture) to figure this out! Except "our" elected officials?Exactly. That sort of chain reaction is why we're in this mess.Interesting that employers/companies don't consider the initial cost of "robo-workers" or the upkeep? Or the cost of constant updates? I can remember a local store that had to wait to repair an?electronic?cash register because of the repair cost. Actually, I saved a boss $ by figuring out that our cash register wasn't working well in the morning because the am light streamed through a show window directly on the components. The register always worked OK after an hour or so, when the components cooled. I redirected a decorative window screen to shield the register. Try working w/people who HATE you because you're a problem solver!Today I started work for a (very) short term project revising a training manual for a former employer. It's only going to last a few days but I wasn't in a position to turn it down. With my 1st day's wages, I was able to pay my car registration and add a new dragon to the fleet. lolI guess this is just how it has to be...picking up little scraps of cash wherever I can find it. I'm focusing way more on appreciating the little things now because the big things are out of reach. :(?This seriously feels like Les Misérables.I hate job agent, they just keep calling you, waste your time with faked position. I can simply search job from web myself, but now, as those guys make 99% faked position on web, then I have no idea who is?hiring.All recent interviews can go f*** themselves! I'm so sick of getting up early, putting myself together to look "polished and professional",?driving?all over town and (sometimes) paying for parking just to interview for a place that I never hear from again. F*** 'em all and may hoardes of dragons eat their faces and torch their buildings. Ugh!For now, my current sources of income are odd jobs, babysitting, and a short term project with a former employer from years ago. This is just how it has to be because our economy has no intention of recovering.?As long as our?government?uses OUR money to line THEIR wallets and hurl the rest of it at senseless wars in which we have no?business?participating, and as long as corporate fat cats lack empathy and compassion for their slaves, it's going to be like this. No mercy. There needs to be a revolt or a mass exodus. There is no other way.?At this point I only wish I had funds to leave the US. It's broken and no longer cares about us.It's refreshing to meet someone like you who isn't brainwashed and feels the way I do.?Keep your head held high NO MATTER WHAT. *hugs*?Let your dragons eat until they are full.?Mwuhahahahha! xD?I'd love to make friends with people on this forum, cause you guys are the only ones who understand my struggles and what is happening to our "seemingly perfect" society.These temp agency recruiters have sign up quotas to fill, so don't bother. There rarely is an actual job offer. I did get a temp job once, but the agency deducted the wrong?city?tax from pay, delayed pay, & shorted a time sheet, w/other issues too numerous to list.You have to figure that when jobs get combined, the competency of any of those jobs is compromised. It is of concern to everyone when it's a medical research job (recent ad). I've worked a full service medical?lab. You stretch one person to properly collect/process samples (w/proper OSHA contamination concerns) & do full service office work (customer service?suffers) & maintain the lab & office equipment? I can tell you, when you HAVE to juggle full service lab, full service pharmacy, & "other medical/office duties," it's only a matter of time before you will mess up somehow (especially when you have to rely on untrained/unskilled coworkers). A lot of medical?facilities?(& other businesses) are using volunteers in all kinds of ancillary jobs, too. I guess skilled office jobs are now even less respected than "waitress" jobs that pay very little?My rant for the day:"Thank you for your interest in this position. While you have many positive attributes, unfortunately you have not been chosen for further consideration.""We've decided to pursue other candidates at this time."Translation: Your skills are perfect for this position and we are threatened by your qualifications since they may actually be beneficial to our utterly dysfunctional company. And we'rehiring?the?CEO's kid.My rant for the day:"Thank you for your interest in this position. While you have many positive attributes, unfortunately you have not been chosen for further consideration."In other words, "We have found someone with a similar skill set but who will work for far less. Wishing you much success in future endeavors". LOL!Apparently we're *not* supposed to survive.A decade ago, when I was regularly tormented @ a job site primarily because I'm a senior w/no other employment options, I wondered if we oldsters aren't encouraged to crawl into a corner, dry up, & blow away. Recently, a "too fragile to transport" relative was "transported" NAKED to a care (?!) facility. His son found him NAKED on a urine soaked bed in a small room the?evening?of the transport. Nurse he finally located said that she was "waiting for doctor instructions." To diaper/gown an old man & give him a pillow & a cover? YES, we seniors do not get hired in this country so the jobless will become homeless & die in the streets. America is becoming INDIA in the common treatment of seniors (anyone 40+ years old)?!did the family sue? I'd send mother to?assisted living?(despite losing any inheritance which I NEED) as she is too much to handle and being an only child there is NO-ONE else to take care of her but we've never had a loving relationship and I need nerves of steel to deal with her. I never wanted a baby and it getting to the pt. where it like taking care of a helpless needy whiny infant.?Besides the known fact that paid care is often shoddy AL take all the clients $ too. I worked as a receptionist in a NH which had some violations.?I don't think the majority of people going into?CNA?jobs in assisted living/NH realize the extent of demands which will be placed on them. They think the clients just sit quietly in a rocking chair watching tv. They dont realize the extent of neediness/helplessness. The violations the NH I worked in were mostly due to neglect. I think most of these gals were really just there for the paycheck not because they felt an calling to take care of the frail elderly.They are most definitely there for the paycheck. Being acaregiver?(especially when you don't want to be) is a lot of work. Years ago I read an article about the "sandwich generation" Those caring for aging parents and their ownchildren. It's hard and everyone can't afford Shady Pines Retirement Village. My mom is not frail and old yet, but she has bad arthritis in her back and she's overweight. I help her out and she looks for me to wait on her but I'm not getting any younger myself. She acts as if I'm A's make nothing and work like slaves. not surprising they leave these people in urine soaked beds with bedsores. Not to mention, some old people are your typical angry, grumpy old men/women who don't want help but need it. They pay is not enough.I have a niece who did this in order to break into the medical profession. She worked in a nursing home and said that was the most physically demanding job she ever had. When their shift was over, they ran for the exits.I think they are just fishing for new talent, filling up their databases, etc.?It is very strange, but I agree this happens a lot.?I could not find Shingami's original post but, I've said it before and will say it again to people frustrated about applying to jobs that you then still see listed as?hiring- often times they are not true openings...there never was a position to get in the first place- I found that out when I was applying for one in my town and I realized I knew someone that worked there! It was more recently confirmed at my current part time job... There aren't even enough hours to go around yet on indeed it's listed they are hiring- I took the ad straight to my manager and was told sure enough, it's put out by corporate automatically every so often and there are NO positions for it!! So don't best yourselves up esp over something you didn't even have a 'shot' at! I am disgusted to find out my own company does this to people- but- I need my panies will also leave a job posting up until it expires, which can take months, even after they fill the position. They do this to collect extra résumés just in case their current hire doesn't work out. So I was told this morning by a company who had a job ad posted but wasn't actually hiring.A decade ago, when I was regularly tormented @ a job site primarily because I'm a senior w/no other employment options, I wondered if we oldsters aren't encouraged to crawl into a corner, dry up, & blow away. Recently, a "too fragile to transport" relative was "transported" NAKED to a care (?!) facility. His son found him NAKED on a urine soaked bed in a small room the?evening?of the transport. Nurse he finally located said that she was "waiting for doctor instructions." To diaper/gown an old man & give him a pillow & a cover? YES, we seniors do not get hired in this country so the jobless will become homeless & die in the streets. America is becoming INDIA in the common treatment of seniors (anyone 40+ years old)?!There's a lot of people who come into the US and they get all the free medical care they want. There's no holding back there.?Who could afford to have kids anymore??? Most people can barely support themselves.Everyone I know with kids has some kind of assistance.This weekend I attended a family gathering and every single person was either talking about their company laying off workers or has been laid off after years of dedicated service. Then I heard from a couple of friends around the USA and most mentioned layoffs. Are companies?hiring?anymore or just laying off freaking everyone?! I have lost count of the number of times I have heard something such as, "Well they can't layoff Bob because he is the only one who knows how to do X and then I hear months later Bob has been cut from the payroll."How are companies functioning with so few employees? Is anyone hiring these days? And why in the world does the BLS no longer track mass layoff?events?What is going on here?!I wonder that too. How are companies taking on morebusiness?with fewer employees??I think a lot of it is greed. More business + fewer employees on the payroll = another Lexus for the?CEO. At least that's how it was at my last job.Congress (government?of the rich, by the rich, for the rich) has used Social Security like a Ponzi scheme. Now it's get rid of the elderly (eligible). Corporations that own Congress won't hire seniors. The jobless will become homeless & die in the streets. America will look like India in 20 years, the generally impoverished & poor seniors dead in every alley.Tell that to every pregnant teenage girl and young adult in my town.?I'm serious.?It's insane...It is especially troubling w/such easy access to condoms nearly everywhere, not only to prevent pregnancy, but to protect YOURSELF against STDs. & the?governmentencourages pregnancy by rewarding women w/$ for career training? I've lost count of neighbors who had babies & got $ for multiple training programs. Me, I've had NO luck getting $ to complete?college?or train for another career or extend my veterinary medical experience into the human field.The only "young girls" who have "opportunities" these days are the girls who make babies to get?government?$, that is, OUR TAX $. It's FORT KNOX, not?FARM?KNOX. The government doesn't have $ trees.So many people have convinced themselves that people are homeless BECAUSE they "do drugs/drink" when the exact opposite is true. That way people convince themselves that failure is a personal shortcoming; people who point fingers @ other people constantly are usually avoiding self examination. Or examining a system, which would require action to correct. It's so difficult finding a?church?congregation that actually practices "The Way" that Jesus speaks. If you believe that God is everywhere, then everyplace is Church. You need to find a ministry where the ministers have worked w/impoverished, homeless, mentally unbalanced (etc) people, preferable w/a degree in psychology as well as divinity.I spent 2 yrs trying, submitted 323 applications, had 38 interviews. I spent my life savings after Unemployment ended. Finally got hired by cellular contractor as Accting Mgr. in 2013, I was thrilled! The 2 Owners split up, I'm told the other guy hired me, so he has to pay my check for 3 months? I had to?chase?it down every payday, usually bounced. 5 months later, I set up payroll. I find overpaying for payroll, fix that and save the guy $27,000 instantly. I do a great job, my reward is hrs cut from 40 to 30. I'm told it's temporary...meanwhile boss is spending company cash on home remodel, has me put his wife on payroll (never there) at $3K/month part time? I can barely live on my pay, but keep cool, hoping things will change. Next my hrs get cut again to 24? I did a memo, listing all the money I saved him, needed 30 hrs, period. He tells me "things are tight" before he leaves for Mexico, my supervisor says, "Since Fri. is your last day, lets do lunch?" I went in, asked since when was that my last day? She said he told her he laid me off?No job another 18 mos, I'm ready to lose my house next. Finally get job in May, in a filthy dump. I'm there early daily, stun the staff first wk by doing a ton of work with no training! I get told to archive files, on my feet 6 hrs daily, but did it all 2 wks. On week 3, I finish up a big mess, supervisor calls me in at 4pm to tell me I'm out! No reason, At Will? Now I owe people money I borrowed til payday!I've applied 67 jobs, had 26 interviews, no job, no money. I live on VISA. I'm overqualified, even if I agree to less money! 'm 61 but look 40. I can't get SS until 62, have sold all I own, my house next. No clue where I'll go. Live alone, since my husband, sister & best friend all died. Since 2008 I've been in a ditch with no hope. At least I have a house.Good luck people, job situation is horrible.Who can pay $2500 rent? You see 3-4 families all in one house. Who can afford new cars???Electronic?gadgets?Problems are obvious...greedy corporations pay no taxes, ship our jobs offshore to get richer. Even Facebook's Zuckerman does it, stabbing us all. Companies hold the power, can pick and chose, and pay nothing...no benefits either. Employers tell me each ad get 100-200 replies. I usually get in top 5, but still no job.I've wasted gas and time on interviews, especially agencies, who admit they list fake jobs, to increase their?database! Don't deal with them! They aren't?hiring, they give false hope, and love watching us all squirm. I see ads now want 5 yrs experience, BA degree, list 20 complex tasks, plus bi-lingual...and pay is $14? Age discrimination is so bad, now over 30 is considered washed up!I spend 8-10 hrs daily submitting apps and searching. I get called, do interviews right, have the answers down pat...but never a job. I had a chance for?admin?at?engineering?office, great pay & benefits. The?HR?lady loved me...I aced the interview. Yet management told her to, "Get someone less qualified!" I was devastated. What's wrong with getting a skilled person for a good price?The American Middle Class is being forced into poverty, while the rich get richer...and the East Indians take all the jobs at big companies like Oracle. I see it here constantly.Why build more stores & homes? Nobody can buy without money.DawnClare: Amen to everything you've said. Everything. And I'm sorry for your losses.?I really think Californians have it the worst economically. It sucks everywhere but especially here. That's why so many people are leaving.It's funny because I actually considered moving to California. It's a beautiful state and I love sunshine. I guess California is good for the rich.I never expected my "Golden Years" to be in poverty with no hope. I did the right things, 401K and saved $36K, which got me thru 2 yrs of no income...I'll never save it again, not at 61, can't get arrested! I don't have even $20 in savings....sold myjewelry, leather coats, cameras on Ebay.Ebay kept me afloat, I sold the crap I didn't need in my house for $29K over 4 years...Then?Google?got mad at Ebay, suddenly Sellers got no hits, no sales. The new?CEOdestroyed Ebay with asinine "rules" and performance standards that destroyed every Seller, letting scammers have it all. The site got handed it over to the?Chinese, so it should be called "C-Bay" now.I dumb my resume down, but it's hard to be a bimbo in the interview. I can't help knowing what I'm talking about, it comes from DOING IT FOR 27 YEARS!I perfected my cover letter, with the trick of putting keywords in the FOOTER of your resume!Shrink the type to CALIBRI 9 pts, make text gray (not black) and fill your footer area up with keywords. You'll get 3 rows, FILL IT UP! It gets past the filters easy!Most of all, be glad to wake up every day and be alive. Yeah the world sucks, jobs suck, families suck and being broke sucks. But I watched my husband and best friend (32 yrs) die a grueling death from the Demon Cancer. They wanted to live so bad...I was helpless to do anything! All that money didn't save him...and another jerk I helped make rich threw me out 2 months after he died. Too busy working to notice he was banging the bimbo receptionist, who wanted my job. You have to watch your back 24/7.I'm still standing. All of us are. Tell your critics to walk in your shoes and do better. They won't.It's funny because I actually considered moving to California. It's a beautiful state and I love sunshine. I guess California is good for the rich.Listen to Woody Guthrie's Do Re Mi. Still true after 80 years.?California has the worst income to living expenses ratio in the US. Even worse than New York.?If you have unlimited funds and really enjoy skin cancer, it's all yours. Otherwise, stay away.I never expected my "Golden Years" to be in poverty with no hope. I did the right things, 401K and saved $36K, which got me thru 2 yrs of no income...I'll never save it again, not at 61, can't get arrested! I don't have even $20 in savings....sold my?jewelry, leather coats, cameras on Ebay.You most definitely did everything right, and that's great to have saved $36,000. I'm so sorry you had to go through it all to live. But thank you God you had that. I know we all thought when we were 19 and 20 years old that decades later we'd be doing something much differently then here on a job forum complaining about finding a job. Sometimes I think about when I graduated from H.S. I can still see me at my Prom, excited, young, believing that even by 30 (30 was old of course to an 18 y/o) I'd be living pretty well with my hubby, kids and pets, lol. Oh well!!You're right that 40 is now considered to old. Employers love that "New?College?Grad" And 40 is not old, you can still get 20+ years out of a worker if the job/pay is good enough to keep them there. They might think older workers won't stay because they have more responsibilities and want more money, but younger workers will leave just as quickly. They would care less than someone who really NEEDED that job. I don't get it.What drives me crazy is the same people who voted for no vacations/time off are now complaining their kids are never around. They voted to outsource our jobs, then wonder why people these days can't find jobs. Um - hello?If you haven't seen it yet, I suggest checking out the movie, "Inequality for All."Here's something that I think might tickle the fancies of a few of you:On a few other forums, in the working world, etc, I keep hearing we are apparently due for another 'recession'. I thought we were STILL in one! Also, apparently, it's an employee's market right now, so. I'm not sure wtf is going on in America right now.I've already tried self employment for 5 yrs, and all I did was work harder and longer for less money. Mentality or attitude has nothing to do with it. Very few want to risk what they have left to create a?business, especially profitable enough to hire people?My generation graduated from?college?and secured long term jobs, which became careers...the goal was to buy a house with a 30 yr mortgage, work til you paid it off, and retired...without a house payment. You worked hard and played hard, traveled, had families and lived the American Dream.Most of the "greed" is 'automated' it's the result of compound interest. Compound interest is exponential. One of the largest shortcomings the human mind has is understanding the exponential function. Exponential growth of anything real, like "the economy" cannot go on forever in a closed system--something most people have a very very hard time accepting. When the productive sectors of an economy can't grow anymore,?finance?becomes the biggest, largest sector in the economy, and this is a problem because usually at this point there are no good investments to be made anymore, only wealth (income) transfers from lower-income people to higher income people closer to the investor class.Lastly, everyone is "greedy". Everyone wants to get as much as they can get for themselves and those in their tribe (social circle) so, why single out the investor class? It seems to me that everyone IS trying to game the system-. I believe that most people subconsciously have less respect for people who are afraid to break the rules if breaking them will allow the people breaking them to gain something we can relate to like "provide a better life for me and my family".I don't think this comment is unhelpful. If you're self-employed, congrats. You bought yourself a job. My parents have been self-employed for nearly 40 years, and will continue to be so until the day they die. Sure, they've employed a few people over the years, and were always able to keep us in a vaguely middle class lifestyle, but they never made enough to get out of the rat race. If they had thought about it enough, maybe they would have grown the?business?enough to have significant residual income to them as owners in addition to the salaries they paid themselves. That way they could hire people to take their jobs, and either retire or move on to other interests. Well, I know why they didn't: my mother loves what she does and my dad loves her, so they never had a real plan for getting out. Now my brother is second generation in the business, which is still just strong enough to provide a couple of jobs, but no way out. (At least his wife isn't in the family business and makes almost enough to support their family on her own.)Historically, this is how it has always been. However on a Macroeconomic level, it eventually leads to a bare bones existence. America became a first world country because people could sell more than what their "little plot of land" produced. The?Industrial?Revolution is a prime example of excess capacity. In other words, we had something to sell to someone else.Since we have become a personal service economy, Ch1na and now 1ndia are having their turn at the Industrial Revolution. I just read that foreign buyers have purchased 100 billion dollars of our real estate. How? They are able to produce and sell their excess output capacity.The?Chinese?are buying Las Vegas blocks at a time and we are becoming teachers, nurses, x-ray techs and online sellers, none of which has much value beyond our borders.Hello guys.?I'm homeless, and homeless "ON PURPOSE." The reason: I just refuse to work for these corporations that are selfish and treat employees like crap, like they did me, and also taking advantage of me. I ALREADY had to deal with my mother, who was verbally and mentally abusive to me and my enabling family are bullies with her! So I decided...I GAVE UP!! Looking for work, because full-times jobs are no more! TAXES are sky high. My?credit's messed up anyway! Oh, and get this: THE ECONOMY IS ABOUT TO COLLAPSE SOON! so I'm homeless on purpose because I refuse to put up with abuse from ANBODY, including supervisors, and lost respect of all of them!!?What do you say guys, I'd say DON"T work for these corporations and small shops and see their businesses go up in flames! And don't give them anymore of your money, more or less work for them (ain't worth your or my time). I know you wanna pay bills and keep the house but abuse for nothing!? I'd rather walk.Plus,?I'd rather be homeless than to be treated like dirt by the employers so they can make a top dollar. You see I ain't paying for their products. You won't see me working for them either to take excessive taxes out of MY paycheck that "I" worked hard for, NOT THEM. I wouldn't work for them, even if I was "DEAD" just so they can take advantage of me. These narcissistic bosses and supervisors and managers EVERYWHERE wants to take advantage of us, use us up until they get the next victim (like what narcissists) and I refuse to end up like that lady at a office job who committed suicide because the narcissistic boss leeched off of her like a vampire and made her crazy. Bosses and managers REFUSE to be held accountable for what they do (nothing to do about that, and convincing with do nothing) and they will STILL do this whether at work or at home, even EVERYWHERE THEY GO!! They will corrupt you and make you crazy and are very selfish and call YOU selfish for not doing their bidding (they like to project!)! Don't work AT ALL!! They are everywhere. I'd rather work overseas than to work in the US. They are ALL for that buck and NOTHING ELSE.These interviewers you all talk about are NARCISSISTIC or Borderline personality disordered if you all are wondering why they say one thing and do the other, like say they like you and throw you to the wayside, like narcissists will do. There is NO employer that is will to do the RIGHT thing because they are ...you get me drift! AND these people should be stayed away from.I take back the overseas jobs! Some can be this way too, and it doesn't matter about the culture. They just use culture as an excuse to insult you in the meanest way, especially towards nice people.The thing no one really talks about are applicant tracking systems (taleo, etc). They track how many times you apply on a job site, for which posting, when and why you were rejected. So they can see all of this information at a glance and reject you on the spot. I have hired people and looked at applications in these systems. I am one of the rare few who looks at all of the folks who were "REJECTED DUE TO LACK OF EXPERIENCE" and often see no reason as to why these folks were rejected.Meanwhile, I am personally looking for work due to a series of issues (new boss at job i've had for many years hates me, won't agree that I am right ever - even when there is documented proof, commute sucks, etc) and am getting instantly rejected for jobs not even an hour after I apply. I am a?college?educated well rounded adult with a car, decentcredit?and no criminal history and yet no one cares.Except the applicant tracking systems, which exist solely to keep people unemployed, it seems.So, how about we talk about some actual CONSTRUCTIVE things that will help with the job hunt?!If you have oodles of experience - should you dumb down your qualifications?Person above mentioned Taleo and applicant tracking systems.?If certain companies ONLY use Taleo - what to do?What are other applicant tracking systems??What other useful information do you have that we can use - or at least understand more about these systems?Unique, here are my thoughts about your questions:1) This is the "rant" thread, so you see a lot of that here. Other threads tend to slip off the page quickly, but this one keeps coming back.2) You should definitely have different resumes for different types of jobs. I don't modify my resume for every job (I'll modify my cover letter), but I do have an "official" resume and a "retail" resume (for lack of a better term) that emphasizes my?customer service?skills rather than my training skills.3) When I find a job that's posted through an ATS, I just go ahead and work through it. If I want the job and the employer uses an ATS, that's what I have to do. No whining. As wikipedia says: "Almost all recruitment agencies and most major corporations with an in-house recruitment function use some form of applicant tracking system..."4) Taleo has over 50% of the ATS market; Kenexa/Brassring has 13%, and Jobvite has 9%. Here's a nice chart that shows a bunch of them:?blog.recruiting-software/top-applicant-tracking-systems5) For more info on ATSs,?google?"5 Insider Secrets for Beating Applicant Tracking Systems". You'll find that article, along with lots of other articles that may help.So, how about we talk about some actual CONSTRUCTIVE things that will help with the job hunt?!If you have oodles of experience - should you dumb down your qualifications?Person above mentioned Taleo and applicant tracking systems.?If certain companies ONLY use Taleo - what to do?What are other applicant tracking systems??What other useful information do you have that we can use - or at least understand more about these systems?EASY.. Target places in radius and after getting your application in their?database?annoy the hell out of the store management.. Don't spray dozens of application a month like most unless you are willing to move and don't know the market for the location and half to rely on listing.Anyone in the US who is even close to management at any company in any industry who tells you they don't know about open positions or how to get on are lying to you. If you were there relative you'd have a job inside a week.. Be annoying but don't directly call them out on their deception..About a year ago, I interviewed with a major corporation in a super posh highrise downtown. Though I was perfectly qualified for the position, they rejected me. And since it was downtown, I had to pay $20 just to park for a 30 minute interview!This afternoon, a recruiter from the same corporation contacted me, wanting to set up another interivew for a similar position - only this one was temporary (about a month long but could possibly become permanent they said). I toyed with the idea at first, but eventually decided against it, leaving the recruiter with this:"...but on second thought I think I will decline.?I have applied with [company name omitted] before and was rejected despite being qualified for the position. It also cost me $20 to park.?So thanks again but no thanks. I don't have that kind of time or money to waste anymore. Hope you guys can understand.?Apologies and good luck to you."Rejecting the f***ers who rejected you. Works in the dating world AND the job search world! ;)There needs to be a reality TV show about unemployed people looking for jobs. Who the heck has $20 for parking....just for a damn interview???????? What about the gas?????How about a "REAL" reality show???Why don't people respond when I ask them a short simple question about their company on Linkedin? You think they be happy to give some info regarding their job???? Ex. What do you enjoy about the position, find most challenging, etcProbably 1 in 15 people respond back 2 me me me.Linked In is simply a place for recruiters to gather suckers, sorry I mean candidates to add to their roster. Many are paid by the number of candidates they bring in. With the economy sucking they need to go for quantity over quality. The only other group on Linked In seems to be people with inflated self importance who like to create articles, that look similar to blog ramblings.Linked In is NOT a place to find work.?Today I started work for a (very) short term project revising a training manual for a former employer. It's only going to last a few days but I wasn't in a position to turn it down. With my 1st day's wages, I was able to pay my car registration and add a new dragon to the fleet. lolI guess this is just how it has to be...picking up little scraps of cash wherever I can find it. I'm focusing way more on appreciating the little things now because the big things are out of reach. :(?This seriously feels like Les Misérables.I'll starting writing it; it can be a modern sequel.I was suckered into going to San Francisco, $27 to park, $5 for bridge toll, just to be added to another?database?by a "bait & switch" recruiting agency. Only reason I used any of them was to get Prove It Test scores, for interviews. I made sure to print out the test results page before I logged out!!!Let's not forget "overqualified."So many unwritten rules:Don't be too eager, yet show enthusiasm.?Be confident, yet not arrogant.?Let them know you really want the job, yet play hard to get.?Follow up to show sincere interest, yet don't be a pest.?Tell them what you can do for them, yet don't make it a sales pitch.Why can't these idiots get it that people need money? They need to pay rent, buy?food, gas...they aren't playing a game, they want to earn a living!I see several ads today, wanting BA and 5 yrs experience, a lengthy list of job duties, yet only pays $12. The Minimum Wage in San Francisco goes up to $15 in July?! Gee Mom and Dad, that expensive?education?worked great, huh??I was suckered into going to San Francisco, $27 to park, $5 for bridge toll, just to be added to another?database?by a "bait & switch" recruiting agency. Only reason I used any of them was to get Prove It Test scores, for interviews. I made sure to print out the test results page before I logged out!!!So for $32 you got a piece of paper that may or may not be useful for future interviews. Sacre bleu...DawnClare in Livermore, California said:?Why can't these idiots get it that people need money? They need to pay rent, buy?food, gas...they aren't playing a game, they want to earn a living!Employers don't care. They have jobs, everything's hunky dory in their little world. Heck with everyone else.I've already tried self employment for 5 yrs, and all I did was work harder and longer for less money. Mentality or attitude has nothing to do with it. Very few want to risk what they have left to create a?business, especially profitable enough to hire people?My generation graduated from?college?and secured long term jobs, which became careers...the goal was to buy a house with a 30 yr mortgage, work til you paid it off, and retired...without a house payment. You worked hard and played hard, traveled, had families and lived the American Dream.I saw a plaque that said: The only thing more overrated than natural childbirth is owning your own business. I have a self employed friend who struggles on the job 24/7. People who own businesses will tell you the same; it's 24/7 work. Then there are the?legal?aspects of employer/employee forms. I know of people who gladly sold their own businesses to someone for whom they then become employed just to avoid ALL the headaches of $/time/legal documents, etc.It's almost amusing to see the insinuation that ANYONE can manage a?business! It's like ANYONE can wait tables, or ANYONE can do office/clerical?work (the latest servant/slave/volunteer jobs) . . . etc. Shows a complete lack of respect for hired help/employees. Takes more than chest thumping & Tarzan yells to inspire a workforce &/or run any company successfully.That's exactly it. Those?HR?people wouldn't be working if the hired help didn't empty their wastebaskets at night, or the shredder guy didn't come.?There is such arrogance out there, unbelievable.?These companies buy into the whole "motivate your workers" crap. If they'd just treat people decently with respect, and pay them something decent, it would all fall into place. Yet, they hire these cheerleaders and pay them!!I could care less about "TV". It's a total waste of time. The idea of TV is to have you distracted from the real world. It's for all of those people you see every day who don't have to work. You know, the ones living off our taxes and having a leisurely life. Not talking about the unemployed...It's "I couldn't care less." The phrase, I could care less, is meaningless/inapplicable for which it is used (usually). I watch TV to notice the decline of civilization/education?& how much media is misleading people &/or a?general?attitude toward "we, the people" as expressed by the very few, rich corporations that now own all media (print, too). Sad & sobering.Age and Gaps are career killers. I worked for a company that wouldn't touch you if you had been unemployed for over a year; didn't matter what the story was. They wouldn't touch you and they wouldn't admit to this either.& then there is the return to the workforce of people who managed a household or cared for an elderly parent (concierge), like you acquire no skills during the time you are responsible 24/7 . . . kinda goes back to the "my wife doesn't work" mentality (like "how are you spending my $?") & companies WHINE about finding no qualified applicants when the same companies have programmed their ATS to eliminate all kinds of applications/resumes based on ancillary discriminations . . .Don't know what to think when I see people on "assistance" (translate, your tax dollars support them) who can afford to get gel nails/manicures & special hair treatments & have their own?electronic?devices & their kids have their own electronic devices . . . & get into classes/job training programs . . . decades ago, I worked?clerical/sales where someone left her purse in a dressing room. Had to look into her purse to see her name/phone #/info & discovered that she was on welfare & had the thickest wallet ($$$) I've ever seen. My coworker & I just looked @ each other . . . we mere minimum wage employees just trying to pay our bills . . . what were "we" doing wrong?Or telling the drugstore to hurry up with their Rx because they're leaving for Hawaii soon and they are on Medicaid. How does that work? How do people who are on all sorts of govt assistance have money for new cars, better cell phones than I have, movies, vacations, etc.? How do they just get to stay home?Someone explain it to me, because I'm working pretty hard, and I'm curious how my tax dollars are being spent. Yes, younger ones get married and have babies, don't go back. I saw it all the time. They get medical and pregnant next.Parents pay fortunes to put kids thru?college, same thing. Better to go to trade schools, since you're focused on a job, not a degree!Ashville, you have not lost your mind. You'd be in a mentalhospital?if you did, on SSI. You have only lost your MOTIVATION. Have you considered the military? At 23, you are what many places want...Home Depot, Target, landscapers, painters,?construction?crews...young and able bodied. It's hot all summer, so CUT YOUR HAIR! Hair grows back. Every day you burn daylight, you never get that time back. You aren't helping yourself, so get out of the rut! Cut your hair, get clean shaven, and go to all the big box stores IN PERSON with your new look, BRING A PEN AND RESUMES, and fill out applications! Smile, make eye contact, shake hands like you mean it!?Here's some extra reality...?When I doubt anything, I make a list of the GOOD and BAD:?Good -You are young, healthy, can grow hair (not bald), can use the?computer.?Bad - You have an unsupportive family and no money.?4 Good VS 2 Bad? Pretty good odds for success to me.Think of how good it would feel to prove your family wrong! That would motivate me right there. Take that lemon and make lemonade!My soul, heart, and morals mean more to me than a paycheck.?Youre trying to say I'm the problen? LOL.?Get your head out of your butt and wake up.?This whole world is a mess. Throwing all integrity out the window and being a tool, not to mention fake, just for a crappy job, is exactly what got us in this mess in the first place.?Look up the definition of freedom, moron.?Employees deserve respect. I'm not backing down. People like you are so clueless.?Sorry, not sorry.Yep, they think a job at a "big box store" is going to pay the bills.It's best to stick up for yourself, because they are going to f with you anyway. It doesn't work to "be nice" or complacent, because they still make it hellish, so one might as well feel like they have a backbone.I personally think we are seeing the beginning of the end of Western civilization. It's all there. The people who don't see this aren't paying attention. Watching "the View" and other TV shows to distract themselves. You see people with a pastime of drinking, casual sex, using drugs, and other degraded behaviors and that also fits right in with the end of Western civilization. People who think Las Vegas is "familyentertainment" and name their kids bizarre names. TV really affects them a lot.It's not everyone on assistance. Besides, I don't know what kind of people on assistance you and xboxer are seeing where they are all going to Hawaii, and buying brand new cars. I know I wish I had applied for Section 8 (public?housingassistance) because they get better looking apartments and houses than me, and pay extremely low rent. They also might be getting some guy to pay for hair/nails.My main complaint is that a lot of them that get section 8 especially don't appreciate it. They don't know how to handle or appreciate having a house and a yard, something some will never have.It's possible, what with seasonal positions opening up. But that doesn't help when you have bills to pay and need a job NOW.Many of these seasonal positions seem to want to hire the 'just out of high school or fresh faced?college?Grad. Forget it if you are on the wrong side of 35 or even if you look younger. These milenials have an extreme sense of superiority and more focused on the right fit and "teamwork" than someone who wants to work and get the job done.Now that we have the gays, the confederates, and pointlesshealthcare?issues out of the way CAN WE PLEASE SEE AN IMPROVEMENT IN THE ECONOMY LIKE WE WERE PROMISED 4-8YRS AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!Obanacare , Mass?Health?which is state Medicaid and regular Medicaid cover nothing and no doctors accept it You may as well just use the ER when you get sick. Prescriptions are only thing mass health covers at $3.65 but no doctor orhospital?in Massachusetts accepts mass health and will tell you to just goto the emergency room and say you are uninsuredTurning 30 tomorrow and haven't found an?internship?since summer of 2011 due to all the asinine requirements for internships.?Since then I graduated with double bachelors in marketing and Management Information Systems in December of 2012 and Masters in?Information Technology?Management last August (with a 3.58 GPA leading to be getting in BGSBusiness?Honor Society).?I still have yet to land a job post?college?be it an internship or career job.?I have applied for over 300+ jobs and countless internships since then and at closing in on 100 applications since first of the year.I've had interviewers say I'm not educated enough (yeah...), not enough work experience (3 internships and one retail job, though I failed to get others for various asinine reasons).My most hated phrase is we need our new hires to HIT THE GROUND RUNNING with no training and/or adjustment period.?I also once had an interviewer tell me the main way of getting hired is by getting an internship from a company, since those turn into?full time?hiring?(Rarely in this day in age). She told me there was no reason why I couldn't land more internships while being in school and out of school in IT (they have huge requirements and most of fellow classmates had the same issue).?In what world does unpaid internships require 2+ years of "industry experience", degrees, and other requirements????It didn't help that the previous dean of my school (not university as a whole) was forced to can his internship program in 2011 because he couldn't get businesses to hire college graduates.....Also most of my graduating masters class are still unemployed or under employed....I am also too overqualified for retail and other jobs of that nature including?food?services sine 2010 according to my attempts to get hired there.?...Metro Detroit sucks sometimes...?know a lot of my fellow undergrads are unemployed with many being underemployed.?Literally 1/3rd of my fellow masters students were unemployed and told they needed more?education?from the employers they interviewed with. Another 1/3rd were underemployed working non career related jobs, not able to find career related jobs in part because they were viewed negatively by prospective employers due working non career related jobs.According to the U.S. BLS, it takes roughly two years for acollege?graduates to land work related to their degrees now, though 47% of college graduates since 2010/2011 are still unemployed and/or underemployed (part time non career related jobs), regardless of degrees.?Also the BLS states unemployment rates for people under 35 is between 10% and 20% with education and even higher for those who have only GED/HS diploma. It ranges from state to state what the numbers are now.I also don't have the means to move without a job guarantee, especially due to the monetary costs.It's just the nature of the market place...Oh you are expected to learn everything you need regarding said job in school and on your internships, including how the company works and what they use.?Oh try getting an?internship?post 2010... you need 2+ years of "INDUSTRY EXPERIENCE" and/or certifications, and the required skills. Some even require a masters degree now (yes I have come a crossed them here in Michigan) even for unpaid internships.I also have 4 recruiters who I occasionally hear from, who asked me if I am willing to relocate for $30,000 or less (no jobs yet)Don't know how you're supposed to know all this in school. Maybe if you're blessed with good parents/good home life. In my experience school never tells you anything you need to know for the rest of your life even if you have decent teachers. It's how the curriculum is. They spend all this time with meaningless equations, historical facts etc. and none of the real world stuff. The best you'll get is a personality aptitude test. You want individualized help instead of?generaladvice you need to know how to find it on your own.My actually core classes (degree specific) did teach us quite a lot.?The problem was much of it was traditionally project based from private businesses, when the well of projects dried up well we have to focus solely on cases and other text book stuff.?I learned quite bit, especially in my masters program (which was only 1.5 years long due to some of my undergrad classes also counting for masters)I did hate taking math and Gen Ed.The problem is most companies don't wants to train and/or give you time to learn how they do things, yet they wanted you to know everything on the first day.?This is why?entry level?and internships currently have these huge requirements now.Also what's the point of companies show up at career fairs even if they have no job openings for newly minted graduates??Why do companies show up at career fairs, only to tell you to visit their career site to apply??Same goes for virtual career fairs.?I've been to at least 8 career fairs and it was very rare for a company to take your resume, let alone actually have thehiring?people there.All the virtual career fairs were the same as well, I mean doesn't that negate the purpose of a career fair?Yeah I am a tad salty today...Well I guess if you're going for a certain field, it would obviously be useful if you got a certain job in that but a lot of classes are just not needed. I mean I understand the importance of math for example to a point but unless you're going to be?engineer?or something like that why would you need to know more than the basics? But the main thing is high school is supposed to prepare you for the real world yet they don't tell you anything about how to get a job they just try to find out what you want to do and not give you enough ideas on how to achieve that goal. And then unless have the knowledge to go to the right?college, you can't get much help on how to get a job either.Yeah that too. It really makes no sense. They want you to know all the stuff that they could easily train you on yet they don't care if you don't meet qualifications that can't be taught on the job. This is apparent at least in retail anyway. Forget the fact you want to do your best to answer?customer's questions and understand them. Basically you can be an inconsiderate jerk. It doesn't matter as long as you know how to do certain tasks on the job and you're an extrovert.I am from a family of engineers and they don't even use the math they were forced to learn in college.Gen Ed is the biggest waste of time and money in my book because I knew nearly all of it.Though the reason for Gen Ed, is the fact that starting in the 1990s, the country shifted to the standardized testing system.?You literally had to study for the tests and do everything else after the testing week was over (normally in April).?Now even high school is geared for the new standardized testing that was signed into?law?with No Child Left Behind.?Now in 10th and/or 11th grade, you have to take a standardized test that determines whether or not you graduate high school and your districts state and?federalfunding.?All that stuff they used to learn in high school (I learned it too), is know bumped to college level including higher writing skills.My high school had a career center as part of the school that had specific programs for those who wanted to take them, though you had to meet the requirements and if you dropped below them, you were booted from the program.That too.In my case I have younger cousin by a few years, who is a skilled programmer graduated with a dual bachelors incomputer?programming and computer?engineering?from a well accredited local engineering school. He's been coding for most of his life (in part to get around his dad's strict rules on computer and video games).Yet when it came time to his final year in school, he couldn't get a job lined up because he wasn't experienced enough and the recruiters told him the same thing. he had many certifications and a decent portfolio, yet he kept being told he didn't meet the required experienced part of the equation, despite passing all tests and being able to show what he has done. In the end his part time job with his dad's engineering company, turned into a?full time?job after he realized he wasn't going to get hired anywhere else (he also was shot down for programming internships and the like for the same reason). The same went for his fellow classmates as well.I can even tell you the horror my two younger sisters who are in?college?and cannot find degree related internships and work with the help of their professors. One working this summer as waitress, the other is working retail selling clothes.I have applied for over 300+ jobs and countless internships since then and at closing in on 100 applications since first of the year.That's ALL? Honey, I put out 100 applications every 2 weeks. Where is your FIGHT? If you've only applied for 300 jobs since 2011 then it's no wonder you're not employed. 30 is too old for internships...that might be part of why they're turning you down. You may be being passed over for 18 year olds who are new in the industry.?You need a real job even if it means having to expand your search criteria to ridiculous proportions (we've all had to).?Admittedly, I don't know thing one about the availability of IT positions, but it's hard to imagine them being unavailable in a place like Detroit. Consider taking jobs far outside the?city?if you have to. Consider relocating if you can. But most importantly, apply everywhere. Even positions you're barely qualified for. Heck, even places you're not quite qualified for. Employers set the bar impossibly high on purpose just to see who will apply...do it anyway. If you meet *most* of their ridiculous standards, that's good enough to take a chance.?Our economy sucks and competition is insane - you have to apply and interview like a crack addict and never lose your momentum, even when you'd rather flip the entire world the bird. XDExactly!! As far as training and such, it's because they don't want?business?to slow down for a second, they want you to just take the reigns and keep the horse galloping. They don't want to designate anyone to train you either because usually the person that does that is trying to do their own work and shows you something once and is eye rolling when you don't have it down pat after that.Entry?level means nothing anymore, you still need a year or two of experience for entry level.I found out job fairs were a waste a long time ago, I used to still go because "what if...?" but of course nothing ever happened. It was always an awkward time waster for me. I'm just so sick of jobs, worrying about jobs, job searching, looking for a new job, hating my current job. I'm just fed up. I feel you on being salty.That's ALL? Honey, I put out 100 applications every 2 weeks. Where is your FIGHT? If you've only applied for 300 jobs since 2011 then it's no wonder you're not employed. 30 is too old for internships...that might be part of why they're turning you down. You may be being passed over for 18 year olds who are new in the industry.?You need a real job even if it means having to expand your search criteria to ridiculous proportions (we've all had to).?Admittedly, I don't know thing one about the availability of IT positions, but it's hard to imagine them being unavailable in a place like Detroit. Consider taking jobs far outside the?city?if you have to. Consider relocating if you can. But most importantly, apply everywhere. Even positions you're barely qualified for. Heck, even places you're not quite qualified for. Employers set the bar impossibly high on purpose just to see who will apply...do it anyway. If you meet *most* of their ridiculous standards, that's good enough to take a chance.?Our economy sucks and competition is insane - you have to apply and interview like a crack addict and never lose your momentum, even when you'd rather flip the entire world the bird. XDThey aren't that available, in part due to companies still outsourcing to India and find a nice little loophole in H1B1 visa program that allows them to ring up Infosys and Tata and have them import the amount of Indian?labor?they want.Southern California Edison made the news in February of this year, when they announced the termination of all their whole IT department in favor of?hiring?Indian workers on H1B1 Visa from Tata and Infosys. The American workers are being forced to train their Indian replacements before their termination is complete.?This is becoming all the rage.I also said 300+ I don't know what the exact number is a crossed all the job boards I've been using/?It also doesn't include those who have hit me up and all those career fairs I've been to.Go to a career fair these days, you get these response: 1) We aren't?hiring, but will keep your file on record for year 2) We want someone with X years of experience on top ofeducation?(most common). 3) We are willing to consider you for an?internship?(most common) 4) We like you and possibly schedule an interview and will get back to you later (very rare).I have had plenty of employers asking me if I'd be willing to interview for internship instead.At 18-21 you'd be awfully lucky to have the industry experience required now to get said internships. Hell even during my schooling and even now you're competing against people in their 30s - 40s for internships. Yes people in their 30s and 40s are taking the lion share of internships according to the?government, because companies would rather have them as interns.?Lastly we are lucky if 10?entry level?and internships are posted within 100 miles of me.No I don't have the resources and vehicle to move...Southern California Edison made the news in February of this year, when they announced the termination of all their whole IT department in favor of?hiringIndian workers on H1B1 Visa from Tata and Infosys. The American workers are being forced to train their Indian replacements before their termination is complete.?This is becoming all the rage.Oh I know.?Disney?just did the same thing.If that isn't "going postal" worthy, I don't know what is.Well at least it garnered an outcry on U.S. Senate floor.SoCal Edison (yes that is the short name) is a?governmentcontrolled utility who happens to be the sole provider of electricity to SoCal.Or in my case having an interviewer/HR?person give you a very condescending interview essentially chastising you for applying for a job you were "not qualified for", because you didn't meet their listed requirements (which I did for the most part at the minimum end). She went on for almost an hour about it and how I should learn to only apply for jobs that I am clearly meeting more than minimum requirements. I was also told that I should be pursuing the?internship?route postcollege, because that is the many way you get hired into anentry level?job. She also asked me a bunch of questions why I wasn't applying for internships and why I hadn't gotten a post college internship. She told me that it would be extremely hard for me to gain?entry?level employment if I didn't go that route. She obviously doesn't realize what internships became since 1990, this was last November. It was literally the worst interview I ever had and it was over the phone.Southern California Edison made the news in February of this year, when they announced the termination of all their whole IT department in favor of?hiring?Indian workers on H1B1 Visa from Tata and Infosys. The American workers are being forced to train their Indian replacements before their termination is complete.?This is becoming all the rage.I think I'd just up and quit. Or maybe I'd have some fun with the Indian workers and make sure I mess up their training.My actually core classes (degree specific) did teach us quite a lot.?The problem was much of it was traditionally project based from private businesses, when the well of projects dried up well we have to focus solely on cases and other text book stuff.?I learned quite bit, especially in my masters program (which was only 1.5 years long due to some of my undergrad classes also counting for masters)I did hate taking math and Gen Ed.The problem is most companies don't wants to train and/or give you time to learn how they do things, yet they wanted you to know everything on the first day.?This is why?entry level?and internships currently have these huge requirements now.Also what's the point of companies show up at career fairs even if they have no job openings for newly minted graduates??Why do companies show up at career fairs, only to tell you to visit their career site to apply??Same goes for virtual career fairs.?I've been to at least 8 career fairs and it was very rare for a company to take your resume, let alone actually have the?hiringpeople there.All the virtual career fairs were the same as well, I mean doesn't that negate the purpose of a career fair?Yeah I am a tad salty today...I've tried explaining this to my family. They're so brainwashed that nothing I say matters. I'm "too young" to know anything according to them....LOOOOOOL.?"Just cut your hair and everyone will hire you..."Riiiiiiggghhhttt....*eyes dart back n forth*?People think I'm that dumb? Christ...?This is why I cant take most people seriously.?Uneducated fools...clueless as to how corrupt our gov and corporations truly are...I'm too smart for my own good. I know too much and people don't like it.Lmao.When the outsourcing movement began, that's what companies do. In fact, in my last job with Hewlett Packard, 60-70% of the HR functions was outsourced to India including candidate resume screening. For the higher level jobs, companies engage recruitment services companies to screen and shortlist. Yes, it's frustrating that if we are looking for employment, we will have to deal with intermediaries who sometimes don't even know what the job really need to match the expertise and experience we have. Then we get ditched at that point maybe because we are demanding too high a salary. My wife even had this told to her in her face 'we only need a Toyota but you are a Rolls Royce so ....'. That's why I no longer wait and hope to be employed and get frustrated about it. If it comes, good. If not, I take action to make sure I have a sustainable?business?that can help out the unemployed in my country.Isn't it sad how misinformation spreads like wildfire??Made the mistake of catching a news brief with my folks where it aired the recent BS about "unemployment being its lowest in years!!" My crazy mother couldn't contain herself. "See that, [Sick]? Unemployment is down! That's because everyone's getting jobs! Except you!""Yeah ma, if you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell ya. Do you even know why they're saying that?""Because people are getting jobs!""No. That's not how it works."Then my folks looked at each other like "poor delusional [Sick] thinks she's got it all figured out."?Argh. Why are people so gullible? It takes 5 minutes of research and maybe a recent copy of Forbes to find out the truth. That's really too much work?o doubt. I scratch my head every single time the jobs report comes out. The minority of friends and relatives are doing as well as they were doing back in 2008. A large?bank?had a job fair and the ONLY job available was several?call centerpositions for minimum wage. The job fair was held at a local mall and the line to get in wrapped around the entire mall. Many of the people standing in line looked as though they are/were middle class.?I know people who have worked since their teenage years and have been without a job for years. One of my relatives has a Masters from a top university and around 20 years experience - now works for a bank earning around $30k. This same person used to earn around $100k a year before 2008.?Yah - good times are here again! NOT!!!!Isn't it sad how misinformation spreads like wildfire??Made the mistake of catching a news brief with my folks where it aired the recent BS about "unemployment being its lowest in years!!" My crazy mother couldn't contain herself. "See that, [Sick]? Unemployment is down! That's because everyone's getting jobs! Except you!""Yeah ma, if you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell ya. Do you even know why they're saying that?""Because people are getting jobs!""No. That's not how it works."Then my folks looked at each other like "poor delusional [Sick] thinks she's got it all figured out."?Argh. Why are people so gullible? It takes 5 minutes of research and maybe a recent copy of Forbes to find out the truth. That's really too much work?cps/cps_htgm.htmThe main UE numbers are based a survey of 60,000 people to represent the population.?These people are randomly selected by census and from the UE roles.?Underemployed, those doing random side jobs for pay, etc..The ShadowStats Alternate Unemployment Rate for June 2015 is 23.1%.There is just no way the official unemployment number from the U-1 to the U-6 are even close to reality.Like I said it is based on a random selection for the sample size and literally counts anyone who gets paid to do some work as employed.If the media were TRULY doing their job, they'd be obligated, after every story of lower unemployment rates they are fed and feed us, they would show a line around a building for a job fair, with accompanying soundbites from those in line.Was this job fair recent or are you referring to back in 2008?? On the radio, all these career experts' are talking about hoe employers can't fill open positions because they can't find people with "The skills that they need"The job fair was held up in Maine around last fall 2014. One of my relatives with a?college?degree was hired for the?call center?but has already been cut as part of a large layoff. TDBank?laid off quite a few people but the news doesn't seem to like covering layoffs these days. Companies seem to enjoyhiring?people only to lay them off a short time later.Something is seriously wrong when McDs is asking for a college degree to become a?cashier. Burger King requires the following for a manager?# Bachelor’s degree in?Business?Administration,?Engineering, or?Economics?preferred; Master’s degree?# Minimum GPA of 3.0?# Demonstrated ability to motivate and lead others?# Drive for success?# Ability to be a self starter?# Strong interpersonal and?communication?skills?# Proficiency in Microsoft Office?# Unrestricted authorization to work in the USThe economy has not recovered and there are still millions of long term unemployed.?I know that a common thing is to get depressed when having little success in the job search. Fortunately, I am not at that stage usually. However, whenever a recruiter asks what I've been doing for the past year, that's around the only time that I feel stiffened. Is home security a valid reason? Seriously, I've had a couple break-ins during the time that I worked as a temp. Now, at least, I've had no break-ins.& the local so called employment counselors can't construct any helpful resume tips for stay @ home moms or people who had to care for a relative @ home = gap in "employment" because we all know that "my wife doesn't work" (?). Can't help w/long term unemployment situation, either. You go to a job club or a scheduled session conducted by these counselors, & you meet mostly seniors struggling w/age discrimination. No answers/help there, either. Employment counselors just picking up a paycheck? & they have no answers for your questions (resent you asking) on all of the above, either.Or telling the drugstore to hurry up with their Rx because they're leaving for Hawaii soon and they are on Medicaid. How does that work? How do people who are on all sorts of govt assistance have money for new cars, better cell phones than I have, movies, vacations, etc.? How do they just get to stay home?Someone explain it to me, because I'm working pretty hard, and I'm curious how my tax dollars are being spent.I watched someone buy a cart heaped full of groceries using some kind of?government?vouchers. Then there were some items that must not have been covered. The woman pulled out an American Express Card to pay for those items. WTF?testingNo need to test, this website is clearly broken :pI think needs to hire some of the many unemployed IT people.I really would like if these personality test came under more public scrutiny from other columnists/writers such as evilHR Lady and Susan Cain. I think it would be a good idea of more of us wrote to several columnists and writers asking them to voice their opinions or investigate these tests. I've already written some writers asking them to so but I think there needs to be more folks pressing the issue.Scheduled an interview with an employer for tomorrow without realizing that they are 3 hours away. They admitted up front that they were wary of?hiring?someone so far away but would email me their address & contact info anyway to confirm the interivew. 4 hours later, still no email. They've probably reconsidered as well and I don't blame them. But it proves my point about opportunity existing elsewhere...just not where I live.?For me, relocation is mandatory, but nearly impossible to do without income. So what comes first, the job or the move? Catch 22.Ecactly what I've been dealing with for years. Nobody cares what I go through simply because it doesn't effect them. *Sigh*?But no one hesitates to chastise me for being unemployed with barely any experience or a car or anything. Why bother? lol... -_-?Might as well get used to depending on soup kitchens for all of my meals until I die someday.?I'm sick of all these clowns free loading of gov assistance when I can't get any help at all. On top of all that, having everyone in this town refer to me as a "bum" and a "spoiled brat." Lel...?Might as well put me in a straight jacket, lock me up and toss the key. Cause I'll never be sane again.There seems to be two separate recoveries.In one world people didn't lose their jobs and they seem to not have too much trouble finding another one. Usually these individuals see nothing wrong with the erroneous unemployment numbers and overly optimistic economic numbers constantly spewed out by the MSM (Main Stream Media). Most of these people spend money as though the good times are here again and will be for a long time.In the other world, people lost/left their job and can't seem to find another one. This group either laughs/cries/both at the ridiculously positive economic numbers reported. Purchases have likely been curtailed.Call me a conspiracy theorist but I can't help but think some of this was planned. By forcing the "pain" onto one group - there is a greater chance that some people will give up looking for a job and this will help the unemployment numbers.I'm starting to think this is all planned too. It just strikes me as manipulative for some reason. Why does this one group of people get to have comfy lives and think all is fine and the other think the exact opposite. It's like this country is now for two groups, the very rich and the very poor.Elimination of the middle class, yo.I'm starting to think this is all planned too. It just strikes me as manipulative for some reason. Why does this one group of people get to have comfy lives and think all is fine and the other think the exact opposite. It's like this country is now for two groups, the very rich and the very poor.Well we are a consumer based economy and the long term unemployed are pretty much damaged goods. At least I know I am - no way I am going back to buying stuff the way I used to.The consumer economy would pretty much collapse if people were realistic about their chances of getting the boot in the near future. At the last company I worked at, just about everyone had worked for a family owned?business?for decades. The family sold the company and the new owners laid off all workers and moved the headquarters. Seems like these days there are only two kinds of companies, those who like to lay off workers and companies that will be taken over by management that likes to lay off workers.Thanks. ^_^?Shoot, me and you both!?I thought about going to Canada.?I just want to live a happy life, one of my own choosing, you know??Find the right woman, fall madly in live, get married but no kids.?Just have a small house somewhere beautiful but quiet and peaceful.?Pursue my dream and passion of the arts. Find someone who loves music as much as I do and marry her or something.?A simple, but meaningful life, really.?Too bad I'll never have that. :/?Only in my dreams. I guess that's why i fantasize so much and act so cynical.Canada isn't much better, hardly and decent jobs right now. We are going back into a recession I heard. The?Bank?of Canada lowered interest rates again. They just want everyone to keep borrowing money to stimulate the economy.I have done my bachelors in?engineering?from back home, I came to usa did my Masters in information systems and My MBA in management. After working in IT for a year, I want to go back to engineering because IT has alot of advancement and you need to keep up Plus the market for IT is very competitive. I cannot find an engineering job as I had been working in an?automotive?firm before.?I think the Best thing for me is to go for MD ( Medical Doctor) If I want to make $$$$$.But I dont know how many more years I have to study for that. Any suggesstion??? Bright Ideas??would be appreciatedI guess these jobs on websites are just nothing. jobs are already filled within the organization and all one needs is good contacts. Job search engines ( ahhh I havent found them really helpful)?We have to stick to a recruiter who can help us find a job. Going to recruiting companies ( even though they take some part of our salary) can be helpful until we get a permanent job.Worst thing now a days is there is no job where you are living you have to move for a beter job.?Nyways I dont know how good of an experience you have had with recruiting companies. I have really found them helpful?An MD degree would require many more years of study... at least four.In my opinion you have plenty of degrees already. Getting another, in any field, won't help you.You should look for jobs that take advantage of the combination of your management degree and your IT or?engineering?degrees.I order to have a stable future I guess !!!!?these IT jobs are project based and a doctor earns way more $$$$?engineering jobs are being outsourced so in USA there are not a lot of enginering jobs now?I see my friends Bachelors in?electrical?engineering and masters in engineering doing Software quality assurance due to less market in engineeringIT is all taken by Indians or Asians (like me) so there is a lot of competition.?I need to talk to a career counsellor so as to do what either go for pharmacist or MD .?I am a little confused because for IT everyjob I get a new project I have to change to another state.?life is not constant..?Thanks for your reply thoughWhat is wrong with?HR?departments these days?Sort of frustrating to point out a specific skill set in the cover letter, resume, application, questionnaire, and so on. Only to have the HR person ask, "So do you have (insert skill set here)?" Um - did you even look all the crap you had me fill out? Grrrr!So for the last 6 weeks my husband had been interviewed for a tax manager position. First phone interview with?CFO, went great. He was asked to make the 3 hour drive for another interview with?CEO?and on info session with the CFO. Took the day and did it. Got very good feedback from the CFO and recruiter. Was told by the recruiter that they wanted him to have a phone interview with?legal?and wanted to be sure we like the area prior to offering relocation in the offer so they asked that he and I make a 2 day trip to the area for a guided tour and to meet with a realtor. The phone interview with legal went great, the recruiter told us to pick some dates for a visit. we arranged the trip. The CEO and his wife took us on a 4 hour tour where they pointed out houses for sale, took us to meet the principal at the school where our kids would attend, talked about the civic activities in the?community. The were trilled to hear we were meeting with a real estate agent later that day. when leaving they asked if we could see ourselves living in such a small town, how did we feel about it....etc...and WE WERE SO EXCITED. My husband and I both sent thank you notes upon arriving home. The recruiter said things looked great and we should expect good news in the next week or so. after 5 days, my husband checked in with the recruiter and was told they are just reviewing some final things and everything still sounded positive. my husband expressed concern because he had an offer for a similar job, just temporary, and another company was ready to make an offer, but since we really liked the area we wanted to get an offer from the small town. She reassured again and again that everything was positive and it was just a matter of days. He turned down the temp offer, the other offer came in, but needed and answer within 24 hours so he let it expire. The following day we got a call from the recruiter saying the job was filled by an acquaintance of the CEO. We are at such a loss right now.This is part of why I've stopped trying to impress potential employers. It gets you sodding nowhere in this economy. My résumé speaks for itself. The skills I've acquired in 20 years are more than adequate for the positions for which I'm applying. If an employer doesn't like the way I look, act or answer their stupid cliché questions then f*** 'em! If they can't handle me in an interview, they sure as hell can't handle working with me. I'm not going to kiss anyone's @$$. ;)Wow. What a woman! I wish more women were like you. Fierce and not afraid to stand up for what they believe in.?Unleash the dragons! :DAgain why are we complaining here when we should be talking to our representatives who are all about job creation. Call write email whatever just do it.I just received an email from Susan Cain's website "Quiet Revolution". They wanted to ask me permission to host my question regarding computerized personality assessments on their site. I gave them my blessing and simply asked them not to use my full name since employers will scour the internet for anything to use against you noways.So yes, the more we push the issue the better the chances of these damn things being regulated. Write to any blogger, writer, journalist, or politician you can off and ask them to investigate and regulate, or better yet ban, these stupid personality assessments.I do not see an improvement in 2015. I am just making ends meet at a job and have received no offers for a normal-paying one. I say normal-paying because I'm making about 50% less than I should.Guess what while continuing my job hunt like every other day....today I saw that job I applied for 4 months ago listed again with the same description and position! The same job that once gave me hope because the?hiring?manager told me paperwork is forthcoming but in the end I had to email her?assistant?again only to find out they hired someone else.Some persons/companies just toss applications after a position is filled (even if those same persons/companies have a probation period for new hires). Apply again. Emphasize your interest. Why not? Can't hurt. Hope that the "paperwork" is handled more professionally.For the last decade we have been in an employers market with a HUGE pool of qualified candidates all competing for a few jobs. Employers could afford to weed out any applicants with red flags because there were so many more that may not have them. During our sluggish economic recovery that large pool of highly skilled candidates has slowly diminished. We are now starting to encounter?labor?shortages (I should know, I got one remotely qualified candidate reply to my ad after two weeks of listing the job). As a result, resumes will begin to receive somewhat less harsh scrutiny and employees will be offered better pay and benefits to attract and keep them. Some markets are a little behind in this trend, but they will follow eventually. I suggest everyone rehearse and prepare for interviews so that you appear confident and competent in an interview, just as though you were a candidate preparing for a debate. Prepare your responses to questions that may be asked that make you uncomfortable. Don't go into an interview hoping they won't ask. Practice these responses to a friend or someone who will examine that response critically so that you can fine tune it. Be truthful but there is always a way to highlight the positive while downplaying and negatives. Never Never appear defensive about any question asked in an interview.Where can I post my resume that I will get actual job offers from Americans who speak English? I am tired of posting my resume on these sites and in less than 24hrs getting 20+ calls from foreigners who can't speak English regarding the most bland jobs in the most common cities near my location. It's so pathetic it is actually disturbing.You shouldn't post your resume online at all. It's an employer's market now, so decent companies will not bother looking for workers because they're already getting flooded with applicants. The only employers who will contact you will either have low-paying sales jobs (usually involving?insurance) or shady propositions that could get unsuspecting people into a lot of trouble.Apply directly through company websites/e-mail addresses whenever possible. The odds will still be stacked against you astronomically, but they'll be far better than hoping someone worthwhile notices your displayed resume. Besides, you won't have to deal with your inbox being inundated with spam.Of course there is the employee's side to the employment gap.As has been said by the last two posters, employers do not like to see gaps.But, during the height of "the great recession" (which I think many agree isn't over), many perfectly good employees were laid off and "downsized" for the benefit of the company. I've tried explaining that.... most employers simply did not care or want to hear it.I took a few classes at the local?community?college?roughly pertaining to what I had done and would like to do. Not a bit of difference.I volunteered locally. Though not directly related to my past experience, volunteering kept me engaged and I learned new things. At an interview I had, I was asked flat out "will the volunteering distract you from your job duties?"Just seems like the perspective employee is incapable of doing anything right at all.Having a gap is a significant obstacle to get around in a job hunt.Even though I have a job--a brutal job--this gap has contributed to or prevented me from getting probably 30 jobs.This gap will be with me for the rest of my working life. I will always have to try to explain what happened. Quite simply, I was trying to get a job the entire time, I had interviews, I had second interviews, I had all sorts of bizarre experiences in the new job market reality, and I just could not land anything. That's the reality of it. There's nothing shady. I wasn't in an institution. I wasn't in prison. I'm going to be judged on the face of this gap. That's all there is to it.I also think people who have had jobs throughout this job situation have no idea what it's like out there in the new reality of the jobs situation. Hey Guys, Hope everyone is hangin' in. I've had SO much trouble getting on this site, particularly with replies. I want to congratulate Lifer for the job!! I was out of work for a year, got hired almost a year ago, and it IS possible, people. It CAN happen so don't lose hope. I actually have a job that, for the first time in my life, I don't hate, I'm treated well, had decent training, is decent pay, and got a raise after 6 months. I never thought this would happen, I figured I'd either be living in abject poverty forever or have yet another job that sucked the life right out of me. Do keep the faith, all of you, please. It can and will happen eventually.Not sure if this is common. I have not applied a job that require background check before. I assume it's a normal procedure for all applicants? Anyone have experience with this?Background checks are fairly common today since most employers consider us serial killers with bad?credit. A background check can take anywhere from a week to a month.However, as long as that employer is still "interviewing other candidates", you should be interviewing other employers. Until you have a paycheck, its all conversation. Keep applying.I've also answered many of the surveys with my truethful answers.?I never heard back from them. It's a shame as I don't know a single person that is always happy, cheerful, and has never worked with atleast one person they were not found of, but, that seems to be all these personality tests want for answers. It's not fair or right, but it seems as though one must answer the way they 'want' us to- atleast that's been my experience- has anyone else out there had any luck with getting through to an interview answering completely honestly?I don't plan on staying thefull time?though. I'm looking but its kind of dry right now.I had interviewed before (b/c I just never knew whether they would be extending me or not) and it was the same story over and over 'this role is too junior for you, the?hiring?manager quit, the job is on hold, they hired internally'I'm extremely worried and this worry is preventing me from actually applying to anything. Which I realize is counter intuitive. Just tell me it'll be alright.It WILL. Even permanent jobs aren't permanent anymore,sometimes. This is no reflection on you. So many people on this forum in the year or so I've been here tend to drink the koolaid and think there's something wrong with THEM. But it's the system that's messed up. Keep the faith. And get back out there. Wouldn't it be cool to give your notice BEFORE they're done with you? Stranger things have happened.I understand how you feel about just wanting a job even if it is a weird situation. My husband just had an interview with a small tech company. Their 1st question was, "Who is your favorite Ninja Turtle?". SERIOUSLY???? He should have known it wasn't a good fit when he showed up for the interview in a suit & they were wearing shorts & t-shirts. Their conference room was called the Donatello room. When they offered him water during the interview their fridge was full ofbeer. He said it was like being in a frat house. They asked him some job related stuff & then threw in some Dr Who questions. He finally told them (nicely) that he wasn't into Ninja Turtles or Dr Who.Crazy enough they offered him the job. The salary was super low but it was a job. He was going to take it (out of necessity) but they called the next day & said a former employee wanted to come back & they wanted to have him fill their position. So maybe things do or don't work out for a reason. He'd have been just working for a paycheck & hoping that they would quit shooting him with Nerf guns (yeah, they do that too).I am wishing you will find a job that will work for you & soon. It's awful being treated like a puppet & trying to be everything some crazy employer wants just to get a shot at a job. We're still hoping that something will change for us & soon.This forum is becoming seriously useless with the "error" message and the blank page loading. Seems like they're going to shut it down.Anyway, as to my one interview where I had the first interview 6/26 and the second interview around 7/8 and then got an email August 4 telling me it was taking longer than they thought, I believe I am done now. I pretty much knew one month ago I wasn't likely getting it. Not sure why they'd tell me to hang on two weeks ago. I figured last week they'd probably start over from scratch. Well, today I see a new ad. Awesome.Employers just don't have the?investment?in it individuals do. I'm not sure they purposely toy with you, but their interests are not anywhere near what your interests are in filling the job. And they likely have been in jobs over the last decade and don't really grasp how it is out there other than knowing there is apparently an endless stream of candidates to fill positions. I've been through this many times. The worst part is knowing I have likely have to face the ongoing nonsense of the current job into 2016. That's the worst part of it. Ugh.Aslo you Parafreegal, Leeann, Sick Of It, Ms. Doppleganger, and Adapting have been on here as long as I have, I sure hope they don't shut this site down- you're all like my second family! I'd hoped by this time we'd have all found good jobs by now:/?I get so excited when any of us finds something that we actually want bc I know how hard it is out there. Try to keep your chin up, hard as it is, there has to be something for each of us- there just has to be!! Maybe down the road we'll find out the reasons it's taking so long (something bigger and better?)Yesterday morning, I went to the local CareerLink office. CareerLink is what Pennsylvania calls what used to be referred to (when I was growing up) unemployment offices.?Anyway, I hadn't been in touch with CareerLink in about four years, because I never really found it helpful. However, a friend who, like me, has been in and out of work for long time, suggested that I check it out again.?So, first, I had to sit through an hour-long orientation program, where somebody talked about all the different services CareerLink provides. After that, everyone in the orientation class was supposed to meet individually with a staff person to talk about what services, such as workshops, we would want to participate in.?The woman I met with said I should go to an informational session about a state program that provides grant money for taking career-skill improvement courses. I said that sounded good, so she proceeded to complete the paperwork for me to enroll in the informational session. As we were talking, it became obvious that I would need to round up?financial?information, such as last year's income tax return and pay stubs for the past six months, to show I meet the income requirements for the training grant.?After I got home, it occurred to me that I had more pressing things to spend my time on than trying to locate all that documentation,.I think they are still called Employment?DevelopmentDepartment here but they are just as worthless as they were ten years ago. About 5 years ago, I went to one of their seminars and it was right out of the 1950's.In Illinois its Illinois Department of Employment Security (IDES). After I got a job suddenly I was getting endless emails about job fairs, virtual job fairs, all this stuff about employment opportunities. I recall NOTHING for the 6 months I was looking, all I remember getting was emails saying that I had not logged into their stupid website and job searched (same jobs you'd find here or Monster) and said if I didn't log in my unemployment may stop.I don't know if they felt that once my benefits were exhausted THEN I'd be interested in job referrals or not, but I was annoyed to get all those emails after I actually found a job.You are better off job searching yourself. They aren't doing anything for you that you can't do for yourself.I just discovered this forum today after what feels like my millionth day of submitting job applications, feeling very much like I'm on the losing side of the universe. And I just have to say: YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME! You won't believe how much it's been helpful to me to hear your insights and anecdotes and to know that I'm not alone.Thank you.*You* are awesome.?Welcome aboard, Sun. Feel free to rant to your heart's content about the b@$t@rds who laid you off and forced you to flounder in the soul-sucking abyss of unemployment like the rest of us. And by all means include updates about endless rejection emails, not hearing back from 90% of employers, job interviews that suck completely, and all of the time, money, and effort you're wasting in the process. This is the new normal. XDI think they are still called Employment?Development?Department here but they are just as worthless as they were ten years ago. About 5 years ago, I went to one of their seminars and it was right out of the 1950's.They are called something else here but i wont say what because I work there at a temp job. Its truly depressing to see...people coming in for useless "orientations"...being told they dont qualify for help for various reasons, despite the fact they received a letter that implied they did.....etc etc...etc.........Its a joke.I don't know what to make of this:College?advertised a "mid range type"?administrative?job on the Dept of?Labor?website. No requirements listed! Huh????? When I say mid range it's not?entry level?nor vice president type level, in between.I looked on the college website and the same position was listed with requirements 7 DAYS EARLIER!!!!! You know like Bachelors required, Masters preferred kind of stuff.My question is do you think they posted this because they needed a certain number of resumes to collect or to satisfy some sort of govt requirement and that they probably allready have someone in mind like a?faculty?member's son or daughter.I know there's no way to know and that I should still apply but what do you guys think?About 7 years ago, it was suggested to me (by a careercounselor?no less) to check out the occupational outlook handbook put out by the feds. I did.Out of curiosity, I looked at the field I used to be in. It quickly became very apparent to me that there were some issues with the supposed outlook. The handbook predicted that the specific field I had been in was on an upward track. Nothing could be further from the truth, even in a "better" economy than we had at the time. Jobs in that field were declining and had been for at least a couple years, even pre-recession. That was due to job titles being combined, people being required to do more work and increasing amounts of technology available.I then looked at when the?data?was collected which was on the site somewhere. The "findings" were based on 5+ year old data.So, to me after finding such huge and obvious errors in at least one section, the rest of the data became suspect to me.The point of that rant was that I hope PA is not using the occupational outlook handbook for the basis of their crystal ball predictions. Chances are good it will be wrong, very wrong.As she put it, there's no point training people for jobs that won't exist.?(Of course, the rate things seem to be going these days, I'm afraid the only fields that will see job growth will be retail, warehouse work for places like Amazon, and?fast food.)That is not far from the truth. Martin Yate in his "Lights in the Tunnel" says that within 25 years, 50% of us will work for thegovernment?in WPA type programs. 25% of us will be selling crap on the Internet and the rest of us will be herding goats for a living. In other words, one person businesses.Since we don't make anything anymore, we will soon be unable to compete globally and that puts us on par with Latvia and Croatia.When you are able to find out, please share with us what the wonderful state of PAclaims?are the "high priority occupations" are.MD might be doing something like that now, but when I took a couple classes on the state's dime, I was not told of restrictions like that. Then, I came to find out that I was responsible for paying taxes on that "benefit".As promised, John in MD, I've gone onto the website where Pennsylvania lists its "high priority occupations."?What it is is a chart that goes on for something like nine pages with all the types of jobs that are included. From what I can tell, they're divided among different "industry clusters" (for instance, "advanced manufacturing," "building andconstruction," "agriculture?and?food?production," etc.).?Just to give you a flavor of what they show, here are some random examples of the types of jobs listed: shipping, receiving & traffic clerks; biological technicians; sheet metal workers;?financial?analysts; and paralegals &?legalassistants.?Something I read on the website said the state updates these listings each year, but something else I saw seemed to indicate that some part of their reporting is maybe two or three years old.'m honestly just looking for a job that won't clash with my introverted personality and can lead to a living wage in a relatively short period of time. Looking for office jobs (officeclerk,?customer service, etc.) didn't work out, so I thought volunteering might get my foot in the door. Hospitals seem to be one of the few places which allow that. Originally, I'd considered going for a patient transport or?clericalassociate/unit clerk job, but I've heard that the former doesn't pay enough to live on your own and the latter is taken mostly by women (I'm not sexist. I just think it would be awkward). Besides those or working as a?janitor, I don't know if there's anything else they'd let me volunteer for that could pay off.So, I've started to think that the only way out of this may be to bite the bullet and get training/certified in something.?Lab technician?is a job that's crossed my mind as you don't deal with people as much some other jobs, but I don't want to make a move without knowing exactly what I'd be getting myself into and whether or not there are alternatives that could help me reach my goal in less time and with less stress. The setting doesn't have to be a?hospital, either.Yesterday afternoon, I sat through the resume workshop offered by the local CareerLink (i.e., unemployment) office. The workshop was called "Rev Up Your Resume." How space age!?About the only thing I found interesting about the "class" was that there were 30 or so "students," most of whom, like I, were middle-aged or older. Pretty sad.?The woman running the program, a so-called "careercounselor," handed out her wisdom as if it were the gospel on what to do with resumes. Of course, as we all know, if you talk to five of these supposed "experts," you'll get six conflicting opinions from them.?The next step is to sign up with someone on their staff for an appointment for them to go over my resume and suggest "improvements." I'm sure there's quite a bit that could be done to make my resume better, but I know the last time I went through this same ridiculous?exercise, after I lost my job five years ago, I wound up discarding the resume the CareerLink guy put together for me, because it was so useless.The other thing I did recently was go through the list of training programs that the state provides grants for in order to try to get unemployed people back to work.?What I immediately noticed (in addition to the fact that the programs were all in fields completely unrelated to my background) was that most of the programs cost quite a few thousand dollars, whereas the maximum amount of the state grant is $3,500.?In other words, the participant would either have to pay the difference with money out of pocket, or else look around for some other kind of additional?financial?aid to fill the gap.?One more travail for the out-of-work (as if we didn't have enough to worry about).I went to the same types of workshops a few years ago. Here in MD, we are required to go to an office in the county in which we reside. The county where I live is Huge.So, when I looked up the 2 closest offices to me, one was about 20 miles away, around the highway that always has very heavy traffic. The other office was literally on the other side of the?city?of Baltimore. Through a toll tunnel. And still about 12 miles.Public transport was not an option. I would Still be on the bus had I chosen that route.The "classes" were some kind of useless for me. None of the jobs posted on their site nor board were anything that were suitable for me.You've got my vote on all the points you make, John in MD. While I guess you could say I'm fortunate in that the CareerLink office is in the same town where I live, I overheard other people in the workshop saying they had had to travel from far-flung parts of our county.?Similarly, the class itself was pretty useless for me. Much of the advice (or maybe even all of it) dished out in the workshop was stuff I'd heard before--or conflicted with what other "experts" had told me. So which of these wise people should I believe (if any)??I also haven't found anything of much use in the job listings I've seen on the CareerLink website.?The only reason I'm doing any of this stuff is because a friend of mine (who is similarly among the long-time unemployed) has told me he has benefited from attending CareerLink programs (although I'm not sure how).The county in which I live runs even with the south side of Baltimore?City?(both sides) up to the PA line. Honestly, for people who live in Baltimore county up near the PA line, unless they have a car and money, there would be no way they could get to a UE office.Gee, you'd think there would be a satellite office of some sort to accommodate the people living in the more distant parts of your county. At least that way, they could see for themselves how useless the unemployment office is.?According to the CareerLink website, at least some of their workshops are held in different places in my county (Montgomery), which seems to be a couple hundred square miles smaller than the county I think Catonsville is in. Still, from what I heard people saying yesterday, the workshop we were in wasn't available up where they were from. So they had the pleasure of traveling from farther away in order to waste their time.yeah there WAS a CTWorks office in my?city. Well few yrs ago they closed ALOT of the UE offices my local incl. and now the one am supposed to go to is a good 45 min. drive away. At another office the supposed wait to talk to a rep is an hour. I live in a medium sized city and have used my local UE office FIVE times. Am mind boggled the State closed THIS one esp. as I would not be looking for a job in the area of the other office.Yes the "free" WIA training was a joke. You ARE limited as to what classes or certifications you can take and the nearest CC are 45 min. + away and it not like you can take a certification in any subject of your choosing for free. This is esp. frustrating if you already have a bachelors degree from an accredited University. I was able to take classes in MS Office but I failed the test for the certification so that whole thing was utterly useless because you can't put that on your resume unless you are certified. am not entirely certain that the certification was something you could use NOW as I took the classes in MS Office Ste '07. The classes were too easy, the official MS Cert. test was waaay above the level of the "core" classes I took and frankly I don't recall much from them. I was interested in website?design/being a dj but did not qualify for trainingHey Lifer,?I've been training the new full-time girl hired through agovernment?program. It's not suppose to displace current workers...yah right!?So the?business?takes advantage of it and gets their wages subsidized for 4 months. That means two of us will be either getting our hours cut, or one of us will be gone soon. Total BS, but they get away with it. Now I will be lucky to get 32 hours every two weeks. I sure hope they don't think I'm giving notice when I quit. I haven't missed a day, been late and I have covered when people are sick. This is the thanks I get!!You're right Leeann, it's not fair.?Employees, even good ones, are just a number to these companies anymore! If jobs were easier to come by they would have a harder time getting people to put up with that kind of crap- essentially having you train the person that will be getting your hours or spot? Makes mad just hearing that!?I hope you have been able to line up some interviews so you can get the heck out of there on your own terms.?I finally heard from the?lab?and my script did in fact clear me for my pre employment drug screen. Now I've got to pass the physical and lift test yet- that'll be next weeks adventure. (Should be a piece of cake but I've got kerataconus in both my eyes so I'll have to say a little prayer I can pass the vision test)?Then come all the vaccinations I'll be required to get before I can start at the?hospital?(already got the FBI abs child abuse clearances back). My orientation date was changed now from this coming Monday all the way to Oct. I'm glad I didn't give notice at my current job or I'd really be in $$ trouble!?Everything is always so complicated.?I really do hope you can find something soon as well- I know all you want is the same as me, a decent job that pays the bills with some sense of security- and that's not too much to ask for but so darn hard to get. Keep us posted!Yesterday afternoon, I sat through the resume workshop offered by the local CareerLink (i.e., unemployment) office. The workshop was called "Rev Up Your Resume." How space age!?About the only thing I found interesting about the "class" was that there were 30 or so "students," most of whom, like I, were middle-aged or older. Pretty sad.?The woman running the program, a so-called "career?counselor," handed out her wisdom as if it were the gospel on what to do with resumes. Of course, as we all know, if you talk to five of these supposed "experts," you'll get six conflicting opinions from them.?The next step is to sign up with someone on their staff for an appointment for them to go over my resume and suggest "improvements." I'm sure there's quite a bit that could be done to make my resume better, but I know the last time I went through this same ridiculous?exercise?, after I lost my job five years ago, I wound up discarding the resume the CareerLink guy put together for me, because it was so useless.They are just trying to make money. If they didn't charge you, they get money from the?government. It's all BS and people trying to sound important.As a matter of fact, xboxer, I noticed the handouts the workshop "consultant" distributed had a?business?name on it, so it looks to me like she was from an outside company that has some kind of "arrangement" with the state.?However they make their money, these people are useless.?At the end of last week's workshop, attendees were supposed to sign up for an appointment to come back to the Careerlink office to meet with someone who would look over our resumes. I dutifully put my name on the list.?I was supposed to get a confirmation e-mail from the woman running the workshop, but I never heard from her.?Part of the reason for the e-mail (or so the lady told us) was so we could use that address to send her a copy of our resumes ahead of our appointments. Without her e-mail address, I would have had to put my resume on a flash drive to bring in at my appointment. (The woman insisted we couldn't just bring a hard copy of our resumes with us.)?The heck with all that, if they can't be bothered to send me a simple e-mail! My appointment to go over my resume was supposed to be this morning. I'm simply going to skip it.Continuing with my rant about the state unemployment office (or, as it's called these days, "Careerlink") in the town where I live:?A couple of days ago, I attended a workshop on interviewing skills. As expected, it had the usual tidbits of advice that are so freely dispensed by career?counseling?"experts." In other words, it was a waste of time.?One of the things the woman running the program said was job-hunters should always send thank-you notes following an interview. And, by "thank-you notes," she meant not just something saying something like "I appreciate your having met with me." No. We're supposed to use the opportunity to once again "sell" ourselves.?The woman went so far as to say that we should send thank-you notes even if someone else gets the job. Her logic was that, that way, we keep ourselves in the employer's mind, so they'll consider us the next time they're out?hiring.?Yeah. Sure.Sounds like your "fun" with the state and interviews are at an all time high....I have one more dopey workshop with the state office scheduled for tomorrow morning. I think after that, I'll be taking a break from those guys and their generally unhelpful programs.I am getting constant error codes & unable to respond to any post on this forum. It's frustrating, especially w/the frustrations of a job search. Counselors & career workshops seem to exist only to employ the persons involved. I've paid for?counseling?@ Polaris (useless). Attended job clubs & meetings through Cuyahoga County Public?Library(unrealistic & useless). I was signed up for another workshop in Cuyahoga County (116th/Brookpark Road) when I attended a "sign up" for funds for employment training. Have we seniors (anyone 40+ years old) outlived our usefulness??I have one more dopey workshop with the state office scheduled for tomorrow morning. I think after that, I'll be taking a break from those guys and their generally unhelpful programs.they don't help, can't help..Counselors & career workshops seem to exist only to employ the persons involved..But it makes them feel so goooood to be helping the underprivileged!Job fairs? More "We're so wonderful, see how we're helping people!"After one visit to my local "one stop job center" unemployment office, I knew that I wasn't the audience they were trying to help. My resume writing and job search skills were already better than they could provide.When I was laid off, we were given free resume help by an outplacement service. That was OK. I'd feel odd leading those sessions, though, knowing that everyone in attendance was depressed because their jobs were going to disappear. I guess you have to have that "I'm helping people!" attitude to survive that work.About the frustrating error codes... clearly nobody at Indeed gives a fark, because this forum doesn't make them any money. But hey, emails are being sent and pagers are being alerted!I have one more dopey workshop with the state office scheduled for tomorrow morning. I think after that, I'll be taking a break from those guys and their generally unhelpful programs.Amen to that. I had to spend two days in unemployment sessions run by the state. They spent the entire day explaining what a resume is and that we can look for jobs on the internet. Complete waste of time. Hey, you know what I could be doing with this time? Looking for a job!All of the unemployment advice and funding seems to be focused on blue collar?labor, not the?college?educated individuals flooding the unemployment offices these days.Amen to that. I had to spend two days in unemployment sessions run by the state. They spent the entire day explaining what a resume is and that we can look for jobs on the internet. Complete waste of time. Hey, you know what I could be doing with this time? Looking for a job!So true, Bynddrvn.?The workshop I went to yesterday was about improving your job search. Just when I thought it couldn't get any more ridiculous, the woman running the program trotted out a suggestion for job-hunters to put together something she called a "networking newsletter."?This would be a one-page document that you e-mail to important contacts several times a year, updating them on the status of your career search, what companies you'd be interested in looking for, asking for contacts, etc.?Who on earth is really going to have the time to put together or read such a thing???And, as you say, you could better spend the time actually looking for a job!A couple of nights ago, I dropped in on a meeting of the "local" job-hunting support group. It's actually about an hour away, so I don't make it that often.?Anyway, the meeting began by having the eight or so job-hunters in attendance tell any stories of any setbacks or successes that they had had looking for work over the past couple of weeks.?This one woman, who was in some kind of specialized field like technical writing or something, said she had seen a job listing the previous Sunday, applied for it the next day, and got the job about three days later.?Initially, I felt a bit envious, until I began to think back about some posts I've seen on this forum, where people have been offered jobs really quickly after applying, only to discover that they were horrible.?I imagine there are employers out there who probably hire pretty much "on the spot," knowing that they will get rid of most of the people, but that some will pan out.?That would be kind of the reverse from the places wherehiring?processes seem to go on forever. The outcome, however, is pretty much the same--most job-hunters wind up getting treated like garbage.All of the unemployment advice and funding seems to be focused on blue collar?labor, not the?college?educated individuals flooding the unemployment offices these days.You are 100% right on with your comment. No one knows what to do to help someone who is more educated/skilled than they are. If your resume is good & interview skills are fine then they're out of options. Their advice to my husband was "have you thought about starting your own?business?" & "maybe you should think about changing careers".Start a business? With no money or contacts?? Who can afford to do that? And change professions? Really?? After going to college, getting a degree & working for 10 years in that field, how is someone supposed to start over in a new field & expect to get hired with no experience?I wish some of these people that are supposed to help would be forced to experience 1 day in the lives of the people needing help. Either they'd change careers or see how really overwhelming the need for help truly is.Most of the losers working in the unemployment offices never held a real job in the private sector before.Now, there are some very good job coaches out there who have worked in the priv sector and give valuable advice. They know what they are talking bout.It's like being in the twilight zone when you go to the Unemploymt offices.?Exactly.?I think most of the problem is that there are SO many applicants here that I just get lost in the shuffle. Or they would rather hire some young, inexperienced?college?grad.You're right. My brother worked?construction?with a guy who had a?chemistry?degree. He needed a job to pay the bills til something better came along. Nowadays there are a lot of experienced workers looking for jobs. Some employers will pass over younger recent grads because they can get experienced ones desperate for a job that will work as cheaply. For the more technical jobs, younger & fresher seems to be the key.It seems to me that employers want more for less. They want a person to do the work of 3 different employees for 1/2 the pay of 1. An "admin?assistant" now is expected to be a receptionist, office manager &?bookkeeper.My contacts/family haven't been able to help - all of their companies are laying off workers in never ending layoffs. Then I have a huge group of friends/family that haven't worked for years and are spending money at a rate that will outstrip their total savings well before they pass away by natural causes. Really worried about this last group and several have told me their plan is to check out by taking a ton of pills/breathing exhaust fumes.Seems the only people?hiring?are in the so-called shadow economy. I have lost count of the number of people I know working some job under the table, everything from sewing secret pockets into clothing to strange odd jobs for rich people. Current estimates are the total shadow economy is around 2 to 5 trillion dollars. These are strange times indeed.It seems to me that employers want more for less. They want a person to do the work of 3 different employees for 1/2 the pay of 1. An "?admin?assistant?" now is expected to be a receptionist, office manager &?bookkeeper?.This! ^^ Most definitely. This is what finally made me realize office jobs were turning into a nightmare for me. I see to many "Receptionists" doing everything under the sun for "receptionist pay" since that's your official title.I saw one ad (for receptionist) that said you need a validdrivers?license. Great, now you have to make errands in your own car too? Just ridiculous.All of the unemployment advice and funding seems to be focused on blue collar?labor?, not the?college?educated individuals flooding the unemployment offices these days.Just completed a useful workshop @ Ohio Means Jobs. Most of the interview info was centered on corporate type jobs but the state funds focused on blue collar training. Better than what the Cuyahoga Public?Library?system offers, unrealistic & discouraging?counseling.Our "instructor" @ Ohio Means Jobs is a?CHEF. He was the most helpful "counselor" I've ever heard @ any workshop @ Ohio Means Jobs (employment connection)(One Stop)(next name?). The website is in transition, a REAL mess to navigate. Find myself in a stupor as a job seeker.You begin to notice certain companies that are ALWAYS posting job openings & often for multiple positions. Sure, you can get hired "on the spot," & you'll find out WHY. You have to beg for your (low wage) paycheck @ a certain local nursing facility. Whole departments walk out of a certain veterinary clinic regularly (what WE should have done when our boss ranted @ staff for an hour & a half, you're all slackers, & none of you is earning her salary!). Etc. Welcome to plantation mentality?business?ownership.I think I'm seing that too.?I finally was able to meet with one of the resume consultants at the local state employment office. Overall, it was a pretty pitiful experience, starting with the fact that the woman couldn't find the resume that I had e-mailed her two days earlier. She probably spent the first 10 minutes of my appointment searching through her inbox and spam folder, and then, once she found my resume, she couldn't figure out how to move it to some other folder that she needed to put it in. And these people are paid to do this stuff!!?After we got past all of that, the woman asked me about my background, and I told her. I also mentioned that, because it has become so difficult to find jobs in my field, I had recently taken some?data entry?jobs as a "fall back." The woman immediately "glommed" onto that fact, and proceeded to redo my resume as if I were just looking for?clerical?work.?Waste o' time.The unemployment offices around here also concentrate on blue collar positions. And they are unfamiliar with most blue collar types of work from what I can tell.Pretty sad that we could do the "counselor's" job better than they can.....A couple of years back, I counted up how many people I knew who were unemployed, underemployed or forced into early retirement, and it seemed like quite a number of my closest acquaintances fit into one of these categories. That doesn't make for a very good pool of contacts to "network" with.?The other disheartening thing I've noticed more than once is that people I've met through the local job-hunting group seem to drop off the face of the Earth once they do manage to get a job. It's like they couldn't be bothered with you after they're back to work.Well I moved down to FL with my parents hoping it would be better. So far same ole sh** different state. Applied for many jobs and no phone calls or emails. ...?Heck even up in MO I got more phone calls that I got down here in FL.That matches up with what a friend of mine, who had lost his job and his house here in Pennsylvania, found when he moved to Florida because he had some family down there. My friend said the economy was even worse in Florida than around here.And then there are our very good friends, the temp agencies.Last week, I got a phone call from an agency about a?clericalposition in my area. The person I spoke to said it was a 1-1/2 month assignment, but, because it would involve working with student records, I would have to get background checks that the state requires for anyone hired by a school district. I'm not sure if the idea was that I would have to pay for those checks (although I suspect that's the way it would work), but if so, it seems like a lot to expect for a job that would be over in 90 days. The lady was supposed to get back to me with more information, but I never heard anything more from her.?Then, this morning, I got a call from another agency about adata entry?position she said I had applied for. I recognized the agency's name, but I didn't remember applying for any jobs through them recently. I looked back through my old e-mail, and saw I'd sent my resume to them for a?data?entry?job almost exactly two months ago. Way to be responsive!?I called their office, but all I got was a recording, telling me to leave a message (which I did). I'll be curious to see how many more months pass before I hear back from them.I have not heard back from any of the agencies I registered with for years now.One thing I do find somewhat odd is that recruiters are able to find me on linked in. I have all the settings I can find to "private" and non viewable, but people and recruiters especially are still able to find me. So much for "privacy" on facebook.... ooopppps, linked in.......Totally true, we could do the unemployment counselors jobs better than they can. Also, they actually look down on the unemployed who walk into these unemployment offices like there must be something wrong with us since we are unemployed. I overheard one?counselor?making fun of the unemployed one day.When i had to go to those mandatory meetings i use to get the same guy, former army retired, he would say EXACTLY the same useless information during the mandatory class nothing helpful.Public "transport" here in wonderful MD is a bad joke. It's often cooler where my parents live (in FL) than here in the summer. And MD has been historically and unfriendly place to live in terms of expenses. High taxes, lots of fees, high cost of living.But, on the bright side, there is employment. Bi lingual is desired in many places here as well.The only thing that Florida has going for it is the lack of State and?City?taxes.Unfortunately the low wages and otherwise high cost of living cancels that out.... :-(California is horrible too. You have The Haves and The Have Nots and nothing in between. Very expensive?housing?and long commutes to the burbs. Nice weather though.Stay the f*** out of Cali. Take it from a native. An unemployed person can't even afford to eat here, much less live. And our "nice weather" is in the triple digits right now. Stay away.How is $7.00 an hour the same as being unemployed?Both of them aren't going to pay your rent.That's what I meant, maybe it didn't come out the way I wanted it to. But I mean that if your offer of help isn't much help then it's the same as not helping at all. I'm sure in most cases we'd all take $7 over $0, but I've definitely had jobs before where I could barely tell I even had one.I'm tempted to reply...."WANTED: Employer who can spell?assistant, based, and performance perfectly (yes, I am serious!).Oh PLEASE reply! Please DO! I used to do that all the time and I miss it, since I found employment. It makes you feel SOOOO good to show an ass clown their ignorance up close and personal.funny, i was thinking about doing this today when i saw a job reposted after i applied. i was gonna email them saying,"thank you for now calling me. i just recently talked to your former employee and she told me how bad it is to work there."That does sound like fun. Crummy employers get some sick satisfaction out of making these ridiculous ads. Might as well have some fun for myself.Thanks! I'm off to make a new email?account?lol.lmao XD?You should actually do this, Tom. So many employers need to be knocked off of their self-imposed pedestals. It's not like they're going to hire anyone anyway so someone should stand up to them.In essence, the change came when I stopped desperately trying to find a job. I had to let go of wanting a job, and let go of my anxieties around not having a job.This is true and works in the sense that once you do this it does leave you more focused to make a plan, maybe even reinvent yourself, decide on what you really want, start to follow your dreams, etc.It may sound corny, but I think it's true. I wish I had gotten there mentally when I was out of work for 6 months. What a perfect opportunity I wasted to figure out something instead of search endlessly for a job in the same industry I hated for 8 years just to get back to work. I know we do this because we need a job and (if you're not single) others are depending on you. But once you get back to the work grind you realize what you gave up when you weren't working--that freedom to do what you wanted and possibly start down a new road.Do you ever find it shocking the wide variety of jobs that pay only about $10/hr? Some that I've seen are receptionist,executive assistant,?laborer,?accounting assistant, andcashier.I can't help but think WHY is an?executive?assistant?getting paid just as much as a cashier?For the most part, I think it's because a lot of employers don't place value on those positions. In Receptionist/EA/Accounting?assistant, etc. They love to tack on the want "wear many hats" thing so that tells you they EXPECT you to know how to do a lot of everything, be great at it and always enthusiastic to do it all day every day. They look at it like "She's JUST doing this or that" so in their mind $10 an hour is good pay for the position and they don't give a s### about the other 8?full time?jobs you are expected to do and be an expert in. And when they don't know WHAT you are doing, they think you aren't doing anything or your job is very easy/little work.Hi gang,?I've been off line for a couple of weeks now not bc I got that great paying?full time?job at the?hospital?but because in the end I didn't. They rescinded my job offer even after my doctor speaking with their doctor that did the physical that said my medications weren't allowed. My doctor explained in detail why I take the medication, that I've taken them for many years and am stable and not impaired on them. I also had 3 professional reference from my current manager and other supervisors at work attesting to my being "Organized, focused, and capable. She handles stressful work enviroment effortlessly and is technically sound" and capable in their opinion of quickly becoming an asset to any company that I'd choose to work at blah blah didn't matter one bit.?If I agreed to change all of my meds (and in doing so become unstable) THEN I would have been allowed to work there- how messed up is that??I was/am still so devistated I can't see straight. I can barely eat or sleep again.?I did read back a little on here and saw Ms.D and I think Fight have also had some terrible let downs recently. I'm sorry guys:/ wish I had some words of encouragement. All I can say is I feel for you. Life is so unfair there aren't words right now.That is the stupidest, most ridiculous, most asinine thing I've ever heard in my LIFE. A freaking HOSPITAL denying employment to someone who takes prescription drugs! I can't even believe it! I'm so sorry to hear that. But look, yourhealth?and stability is way more important that that stupid job. I also have to wonder about the legality of it all. Especially AFTER offering you the job. And that nonsense about changing the meds you're on. Smacks of discrimination. If you have nothing better to do, pursue it. Legally. Otherwise, keep the faith. Sometimes it's just one pile of crap after another. But it doesn't go on forever. Stay strong.I am not only sick of rude employers, I am sick of rude out of touch family members. One of my cousins recently became unemployed and she and I put together a time we could meet together and support one another during our job searches. Well we recently had a family get together and my cousin was on my laptop job searching and checking her emails. My dad walks by and asks what she was doing and she told him. Well a few hours later she overheard him telling others that he would not apply to jobs online. He would go in person and apply. He also said that many people just don't want to work and that people are only being picky about what jobs to take. My cousin became upset and told him that he was so out of touch and judgemental and that he should mind his own?business. He mumbled something under his breath and the get together became quiet. I guess he thought no one would challenge his comments.Mind you my dad has retired and worked at the same company for 30 years and never used a resume. I once asked him if he knew how to put one together and he said no, because he is not good with computers and typing.You will always run into people who will sit and criticize and relive their "glory days" all the while putting others down. But in this case it served him right that he put his foot in his mouth.Uh HUH. That is my generation you're talking about and they are a?collection?of the most clueless individuals to ever run their pie hole. I might be one of them if I, myself, had't become unemployed at the same time as my?college-educated son, with 25 years in?education. He's been unemployed for 4 years and I've seen firsthand on this site that your degree might mean pretty much nothing. But MY proud generation remembers when.....Yeah you could leave one job and have another one in 5 minutes. They kept people forever, a decent employee was respected and retained and appreciated. They need to wake up and smell a different world than the one they benefited from and now sit happily retired from. You have to overlook their ignorance because they haven't looked at a help wanted column in decades....they don't even know it's almost non-existent. They still think you can take a help-wanted sign out of a window, take it inside and walk out with a job. Kinda pathetic when you think about it. So out of touch. Hopefully they never need to look for a job again. It will BREAK them. I'm looking at 66, not so lucky as your folks to be "retired". I got lucky after a year out of work and got something, not my ideal at this stage in my life, but at least I can help my kid until something breaks for him. Tell your folks a member of their generation says to be a parent and that their commitment to their kids doesn't end at 18!i'm in a sh_ttttttttt mood tonight. Was flat on my phone interview last week. Last week I had this 15 min in person interview - no substance interview. Then today this company i put in app for 1 mo ago leaves msg on my phone......i call back twice but they never called back again.how much can one take of this?and another thing i see more and more of these small nobody companies starting to want a whole list of requirements. WTFBut MY proud generation remembers when.....Yeah you could leave one job and have another one in 5 minutes. They kept people forever, a decent employee was respected and retained and appreciated. They need to wake up and smell a different world than the one they benefited from and now sit happily retired from. You have to overlook their ignorance because they haven't looked at a help wanted column in decades....they don't even know it's almost non-existent. They still think you can take a help-wanted sign out of a window, take it inside and walk out with a job. Kinda pathetic when you think about it. So out of touch.I also found it funny that he made those comments to my cousin seeing as how he doesn't know his way around computers. He wouldn't know how to fill out an online application. He wouldn't know how to upload a resume as an attachment. Plus, it irritates me when people say what they would be doing if they were unemployed. That's the thing, you might think you know but its not them having to look for a job. Things are not the same. The?hiring?process is not the same. Even if you happen to run across a company that still has paper applications, you won't get to speak to the person in charge of hiring. But most places now will tell you that you have to apply online. What else I find bizarre about my dad is that he?claims?to be a?christian, yet he judges people out of work and how they conduct their job searches. He judges stay at home moms all because they are not "out earning their keep" according to him.[QUOTE who="Burt Lange in Albany, Then today this company i put in app for 1 mo ago leaves msg on my phone......i call back twice but they never called back again.how much can one take of this?and another thing i see more and more of these small nobody companies starting to want a whole list of requirements.I would get the no return call after being called about the job a lot too. Why even call me in the first place? I remember only calling twice, after that I was done.and not just the list of requirements that's out of hand, it's the list of job duties. I know everyone does more than one thing on a job (usually) but sometimes it's ridiculous what I read. And a job like that, it will take you up to a year to be fully comfortable with a hundred job duties, but they want you comfortable in 3 days.I am not only sick of rude employers, I am sick of rude out of touch family members...Mind you my dad has retired and worked at the same company for 30 years and never used a resume. I once asked him if he knew how to put one together and he said no, because he is not good with computers and typing.?I know we know we need to ignore people like this, but it is hard when you live with them and especially if they are your parents. My mom used to be like this on a small scale, but for her her attitude is mostly stay at whatever job you have forever, no matter what.While it's understandable for them to think this way because they never had to deal with it, it's not right that they don't empathize. All they see is the time going by with you being unemployed and are wondering what YOU are doing wrong. They are never going to understand or try to because they don't have too.It's like my Mom, she's retired and does nothing but watch TV all day, with the occasional errands, and when I complain about the long weeks and dont' want to get up in the morning she'll be like 'What are you talking about? The weeks are going FAST. It's Wednesday already!" Um, they may go fast for YOU.So cluelessness comes with the territory for most retired people, or even those on Social Security now and just stopped working. They don't get it, especially if they loved their job for 30 years, they really don't get it.I'm pretty lucky. All that my mother (age 84, had the same job for 40 years) does is send me clippings from AARP articles about job searching for mature adults. The AARP is just as out of touch as you'd expect.I noticed the same thing about AARP a few years ago. Saw articles claiming that AARP had "insights" on jobs for over 50. Yea, well, as you said, out of touch.It takes at least 6 months to be up and running at a new job. For most, 10 months.But like u said companies start getting nervous with new hires if they don't catch on in 1 month! And after 3 mo they will let u go.Hi gang,?I've been off line for a couple of weeks now not bc I got that great paying?full time?job at the?hospital?but because in the end I didn't. They rescinded my job offer even after my doctor speaking with their doctor that did the physical that said my medications weren't allowed. My doctor explained in detail why I take the medication, that I've taken them for many years and am stable and not impaired on them. I also had 3 professional reference from my current manager and other supervisors at work attesting to my being "Organized, focused, and capable. She handles stressful work enviroment effortlessly and is technically sound" and capable in their opinion of quickly becoming an asset to any company that I'd choose to work at blah blah didn't matter one bit.?If I agreed to change all of my meds (and in doing so become unstable) THEN I would have been allowed to work there- how messed up is that??I was/am still so devistated I can't see straight. I can barely eat or sleep again.?I did read back a little on here and saw Ms.D and I think Fight have also had some terrible let downs recently. I'm sorry guys:/ wish I had some words of encouragement. All I can say is I feel for you. Life is so unfair there aren't words right now.That is just plain ol' bullsh!t! It really is disgusting the way they strung you along...I honestly don't understand why the meds you take should be used against you as long as you're stable, they doesn't effect your ability to do the job, and you're not some addict that's going to be stealing pills.I honestly would seek a consultation with an?attorney?at the very least.. this reeks of discrimination...Welp last IT gig fell through so I might aswell rejoin the rants here as I look for a new job. Already losing my patience its bad enough that when i do these?contract?jobs that im doing alot more legwork than what im being paied for. Not that i dont like working its just when im being told you start this date and your job ends on this date and the only way you are ever going to grow in this field is if you actually set some roots down with a company for at the very least two years the whole thing is aggravating.Whats pissed me off is almost every listing is a recruiter of some type and a few weeks back i had missed a call from one of these guys i go to listen to the message and couldnt understand a thing they said and was unable to call back because i had no clue what position i was calling back for or whom called me because it wasnt a direct line.My stupid mean boss makes me nervous and I realize that causes me to makes the simplest mistakes with him so I know he sees me as a stupid idiot and I can't redeem myself. I hate it and I'm ready to go. Just hate sitting in this nothing job feeling incompetent on something stupid.Is this the same guy who blew up on your over that whole docket?business? I'm so sorry you're having to deal with that at your age. For me it's the feeling of being almost at the very bottom of the?food?chain at my age and after all the effort I've put into educating and training myself. I feel like I'm looked down at, underestimated. H3LL forbid if "uppity me" ever advocates for or defends my self...If you're not a extroverted, STEM genius, salesperson who can sell a bicycle to a fish then you're not much valued in this job market.I'd be thrilled to even HAVE a spouse, lmao. :/?I have unprecedented rage these days.?Why do others have a wonderful family, while I get nothing and go through life alone??Not wanting pity, just being real. You know?To you and Shingami, being jealous of others accomplishes nothing. If you become upset when you see someone else having things you don't have, you'll ALWAYS be upset. There are always going to be people who have certain things you don't have. Being jealous is an endless cycle. Instead of being angry and sad, be happy for those other people. They have a good life, yay! That's great! No need to be unhappy. If you want to be unhappy about something, it should be toward the ridiculous?hiring?processes that exist today. THAT is what deserves blame.Last week, I went to one more "workshop" given by the state employment office. I don't think someone could pay me enough money to go to another one of these things.?The presentation was really hard to follow, as the woman giving it hopped from one topic to another.?Part of what she was supposed to be talking about is a website called O*Net (which I'd never heard of before) that has job listings and a self-assessment test for career skills. (I'm not sure, but I think O*Net has something to do with thefederal government.) However, more people were signed up for the workshop than there were?computer?monitors, so some of us had to be crammed together to share screens, which made it even harder to follow whatever the woman was talking about.?At one point, the woman went around the room to ask people what kind of jobs they were looking for. I'd say almost all of the dozen or so people there (including me) were in their fifties or sixties, and quite a few couldn't think of anything to say except that they are "in transition." It kind of struck me as an example of how a lot of people (including me) are really stuck for ideas for finding work of some kind.Okay I understand you more now. But still, I don't really believe in "luck" that much. If someone else is successful, there are usually a combination of several reasons why, and luck is just one of several things that combined to create their success. That's something that's extremely important to remember.If you want to start your own?business?(which I myself want to do too!) then start it. You don't have to be upset about "I don't have this and that, so I can't do it." Entrepreneurs findcreative?ways to solve problems. They don't think about what they don't have and what they can't do. Instead they find a way around obstacles. They don't say "but that other entrepreneur over there doesn't have that obstacle." It doesn't matter what someone else has or doesn't have. What matters is that you will find a creative way around whatever obstacle is in front of you.(For the record, I'm glad I'm not married. There are people who want to start their own biz but their spouse is AGAINST it. I'm glad I can do what I want without worrying "what will my husband think?")I get what you're saying. I don't want to start my own business. It took a long time, but I finally got the motivation to try to do what I want to do (write a book and shop it around) but also just find a job I might actually like or is at least more tolerable than what I have now. Having a sucky job zaps so much creative?energy!I know people can become successful without help, but it doesn't irk me any less to see them pass me by because they got that quick leg up. That was my main point/gripe. I know being married can be a 'be careful what you wish for' kind of thing, of course it depends on the spouse, lol. I always wanted a husband and a family. Man, time flies.Hi Gang!!I'm just popping in to say Hello.?I was laid off on Sept 29 but have managed to get two jobs within a week and half of being laid off, so for me God is good all the time. I don't start the jobs until CSR job I start Nov 6th, my "fill In" job for the weeks until then I start next week, well hopefully if the company stops dragging their feet.I am however staying positive and looking for a late night shift job, so if your in California and you hear me say "Can I take your order please" it's probably me. LOL?At this point, a job is a job, the two jobs above pay pretty good in "double digits" the late night job at the del taco may only pay in single digits but I have bills to pay :)?I'm honestly hoping for another late night?data entry?job which would be perfect.Oh by the way, I am Finally getting my right leg looked at Next Monday, Yahoo!?Its only taken a fricken year but hey, at least I will finally know if and when I will have to have surgery, I'm also scheduled to see a heart doctor as well due to have chest pains.Ok all for now :)?xoxoxoxoI think other topic 'End of Life' talked about now older and never a date-ever. Sounds decent looking, so that must be hard. Others, look inside... would you want you? Are you desirable to yourself? If too angry, moody, sensitive, change is in order. Making the change is good bc result is good feelings inside yourself. You love yourself bc you know you are good. Treating others badly always makes a person unhappy. Hold your head up, with a new kindness and warmth and a smile which draws others to you. Again, the change comes from within. Belief in continual growth and change a good motto.Hard to post on this site.Understand employment situation is bad. Definitely not ppls fault. Otherwis... ppl make changes all the time. Witnessed, amazing. All did not wait around for others to change their feelings toward THEM. All first made changes from within. You change, others forced to roll with your changes.?Weird= those who are toxic. Those who don't have a kind bone in their bodies. Those who lack human emotion other than toxicity and tearing others apart. So you are right. People are afraid of toxic people and don't want to be around them.Weird can be bully, but can also be like those shooters-quiet one day, but flipout the next... ppl want to feel someone won't go nuts and attack or murder them. Abusers are mental, unstable, but so are seemingly quiet shy types too. Some ppl are avoided because ppl fear their looks. Societies judge appearance-not always right or fair to do.Today went to ANOTHER of those local "mom & pop" stores w a "We're?Hiring" sign. 1st the woman insulted me by saying she only pays min. wage as "it's not brain surgery" THEN she tells me she WON'T train for the pckge shipping part of the?business?(it's a gift store/shipping UPS business). She wants someone for 3?hr. shifts 4 days a week to vacuum, dust &?general?cleaning?! I wasted an hour w this woman and THEN she tells me her husband is doing the interviews next week. I went to shake her hand, proper business/manners etiquette, she turned away. I told her I'd like to shake her hand as is proper and she gave me a "look".Wow, sorry about your experience at the "mom and pop" store, what a waste of time to go through the effort of interviewing then be told they want to hire a student and I'm sure you know why, because a student will take the low pay. Ughs.Hang in there.Wow, sorry about your experience at the "mom and pop" store, what a waste of time to go through the effort of interviewing then be told they want to hire a student and I'm sure you know why, because a student will take the low pay. Ughs.Hang in there.I wonder how often these sorts of things happen at little stores like that.?I once applied for a job at tiny pet store near where I live that had had a "Help Wanted" sign out for a long time. I was really desperate for any kind of job I could get, so I went in, picked up an application, took it home, and returned the completed form the next morning. I handed it to some middle-aged-looking woman (who I guess was the manager), and the first thing she asked me was whether I was the one looking to work there. I said I was.?She then looked me up and down, and the only other thing she said was that they didn't have anything for me. I felt about two inches tall and probably wasn't even in the store for five minutes.?I later was talking with someone who said that the woman running the store was basically pretty unfriendly and that they really only hired "kids."Anyone else see this article? As though there are not enough headwinds for job seekers out there. "Here's Proof That Age Discrimination Is Widespread in the Job Market"?news/articles/2015-10-26/here-s-proof-that-age-discrimination-is-widespread-in-the-job-marketI am not in these age brackets but I went gray early and coloring my hair is apparently very necessary. This is about as frustrating as companies whining that they can't find competent employees because they refuse to hire employees with more than a few years experience.Anyone else see this article? As though there are not enough headwinds for job seekers out there. "Here's Proof That Age Discrimination Is Widespread in the Job Market"?news/articles/2015-10-26/here-s-proof-that-age-discrimination-is-widespread-in-the-job-marketI am not in these age brackets but I went gray early and coloring my hair is apparently very necessary. This is about as frustrating as companies whining that they can't find competent employees because they refuse to hire employees with more than a few years experience.Thanks for posting that link. It was an interesting article (at least for someone like me, who is well within the age brackets in question).?The job group whose meetings I sometimes attend recently posted a link to an article about possible explanations for why people don't get jobs. I thought it had some good things to say, although there was something about the end of the article that I felt was kind of weak:sites/lizryan/2015/10/28/the-real-reason-you-didnt-get-that-job/I don't have time to read the articles at the moment, but the gist does not surprise me at all.Many wages have been remaining stagnant for over 10 years now and employers keep adding tasks and responsibilities to the work load.Where I am working now [yea, I'm screwing off, what's your point? :)] is the first company I've ever worked for that does not have sick time. So people come in with all sorts of strange sicknesses.I also found out an "interesting" tidbit the other day: of the folks here was given a "raise" after about 5 years of not getting a dime (with the company 17 years). Got sick and had to go home for a few days.... the "raise" was taken away. First time I've Ever heard of a company taking away a raise, so wrong on so many levels.The position I'm in, people seem to last 2-3 years max and either get fired or just go away. Well, trust me, I am on the verge of just going away, whether I have another job lined up or not. Good job at first, but things really went down hill.?I still get questioned when I go to interview why have I been working temp jobs for 8 years, well hello, there are no permanent jobs to be found, I have to work, I'm self supporting. But I once they realize how bad the economy is then the interviewer usually eases up on asking the dumb questions. And believe I have even applied for?janitorial?work for at night and get turned down due to my age I guess, but whatever, their loss. Keep your head up something will come through. Keeping you in prayer. :)I get questioned as well.. One recruiter today (of a staffing company) told me that I basically should forget about getting a job in a my field because I have had 'too many temp jobs' that were short stints and I should get 3 years of experience somewhere before "attempting" a career change.. One well known retailer also refused to interview me for a?Financial Analyst?role because my Resume showed "too many short stints" at temp jobs (many of these temp jobs were in my field and I have been continuously working in the past 5 years)I don't know you get called lazy when you don't have a jobI kind of don't care anymore the earth is dyingAnd once you die nothing matters anyways?I imagine the earth ending...all of the little problems that you have disapearI mean nothing truly matters when you view life that way...It's hard to get a job shoot...people are like you should get a part time job in the mean time until you can get a "real one."I'm like I what y do you think I've been doing all summer?Almost a year jeez.Some people been out longer than meh though.?As to unemployment, I think part of that is your age. I have not finished looking into this, but I am suspecting that it takes aspies a little longer to feel comfortable in the job market. Part of it is finding your own ways to cope, which is unique to each person. The other part is, frankly, pretending to be neurotypical at least at a glance. This is important mostly to keep people from hassling you. This doesn't mean that you have to keep being autistic a secret, it's just being able to throw on a mask if you need to.I think that finding a job will not be so difficult for you in a few more years.If you haven't landed employment within 2 years of graduation it's a safe bet that your personal brand has rendered your degree obsolete. You can hit the reset button with another degree, ideally in something employable, but getting a job in the campus recruitment pipeline is all about attitude and motivational fit (it helps to be energetic and at least a little bit outgoing, even if it is painful and utterly fake). Would I be safe to assume that you weren't especially outgoing or energetic in campus recruiting process? We've all had a lifetime of failures, but it just takes one success to break the chain, so keep trying.In general, the ideal situation to get your first professional job without any connections is that you have a masterfully crafted CV, with a 3.8 or above GPA in an in-demand technical field, at a well-regarded school (ie. John Hopkins or BYU, not Harvard or Stanford), having interned twice in top-flight (ie. F50) companies. You should have no adverse credit history, never been arrested or been to trial (regardless of judgment), and you should have a non-complicated address history (ie. haven't moved more than 3 times in the past 5 years). During your class semesters (not the ones you took off for internships), you have served as an officer of at least 2 student organizations, participated in 2 community service events that relate to your major (ie. low income taxpayer clinic, for accounting majors), have at least 5 people who strongly recommend you, 2 of whom are professors and 1 is a professional in your field, the other two can be anyone as long as you don't share a same last name. Most importantly, you should have a STAR-structured technical or people leadership story for each of your experiences (even the ones that don't fit onto your 1-page resume). If you complete another degree, and do all of this, and you still can't find a job, then you can give up.Hey guys, I'm really hoping somebody can help me out because I'm feeling very lost. I have a bachelors degree inhealth?science from the University of Michigan. My intention was to go to physical therapy school. I graduated with honors but did not get accepted into the program. While considering my next move, I started personal training and really enjoyed. I also have an interest in meditation and mindful living, so I started adding services related to that such as reiki. I started dreaming about owning a wellness center. Unfortunately, I wasn't making a ton of money as a trainer so I went and got two more jobs. I now have three jobs and I still struggle to pay the bills, my student loan payments are kicking in, I'm falling behind on all of my bills, TV gets shut off every other month. It seems like the dream of owning a wellness center is just a dream... and it's getting costly.I have two kids. I have a wife who works really hard trying to help keep us afloat. I feel like a loser. I reapplied to PT school even though I question if I really want it. I find out in February if I get in.I still want to help people and I really enjoy the mindful living aspects of wellness and holistic approaches to health. What can I possibly do? Is there any stable work that I can pursue that I'm not thinking of? I have this BS degree in health science but that doesn't lead to any specific jobs. Any advice on where I can go or who I can talk to?I've talked to career counselors at the University back when I was considering trying to find work as a health?inspector?but I didn't get too far.If you've read this whole thing, thank you. I would really appreciate any advice.I looked into many other allied?health?programs and none of them seemed right. I came to the same conclusion as you and I'm doing a lot of research and thinking outside of?healthcare?a bit. Trying to tap more into my personality and my goals and I think I found something that really interests me but I just don't know how to get into it being that I have zero experience in the field.Thank you for responding. I agree with you that the dream job needs to be put on hold.Most of healthcare is saturated now. Everyone went into it. Most jobs you see are not full or even part time anymore. Most don't pay benefits of any kind.Those?home health aide?jobs, etc...don't pay very much if you are trying to support a family. That's a huge step down from what you went to school for.Do you ever feel when you apply for a job your just throwing your resume into a black hole? What does one do about it?All the time, especially when I'm 99%-100% qualified for the jobs and get no response. That's the worse. I do agree about smaller companies being more apt to see your resume than larger companies. I have applied multiple times to larger companies because they constantly have the same jobs posted, so I wonder what is going on. Why are these positions in constant rotation? I know they have to be getting applications.My friend's mother works at Blue Cross Blue Shield, been there for decades. All my friend did was get called in for testing and interviews, never hired, she tried for a year, and she knew someone who worked there. I think these places are a crock of s### over half the time.How come 99% of the jobs you apply to you never here from? Is is because o the BS taleo or other software? Why don't places list the salary or benefits in a job ad. Negotiable, TBD, Depends on experience does not count. If you put the salary then you get people who are really interested in the job. Why do we have minimum wage laws but not minimum benefits laws? Why you apply for a job never hear anything, then a week latter see the same or similar job posted? Also requiring you to speak a language other then English, doesn't that violate discrimination laws? If you are lucky to get an interview are the days of knowing if you did or did not get a job in less then a week over? I did have a place be professional enough to call me and tell me the position was filled before an interview. I had a place send me an email about setting up an interview so I reply heard nothing. I get an?auto?reply week latter the position was filled. I emailed and ask why did I get an email to set up an interview I you were not going to interview? They said its an auto email I feel sometimes my resume is going into a black hole any advice? Sorry if I am crying I just need to blow off some steam. I am not a troll. When your unemployed how do you remain positive? I am back in school for another degree.I have a 6 year unemployment gap since leaving?college?with ageneral?Associate's degree. I left with 3 years of credits in 2008 due to a personal matter (and I was not willing to waste more money since graduates were not being hired, anyway). Since then I have looked for work off and on (any and all kinds) and the small gap in employment history soon turned into this 6 year gap because no one will hire someone who is not eternally employed, it seems. What do you tell potential employers about "the gap" when there is nothing else to say, other than the truth, which is that no one wants to hire you?! I have thought about going back to school to get a Bachelor's in SOMETHING, but even fields that are so-called "in demand" will not hire you unless you have a ton of experience, and I can't afford that gamble. Especially when, even if I DO get a BS degree in something that's "in-demand," the?hiring?manager will probably just turn me down anyway because of the gap from BEFORE I went back to school. I feel like I will never get out of this hole. :(The "gap" is is one of the toughest problems to solve. You want to focus on very small companies as you are wasting your time with large companies - they won't touch you. The problem with small companies is that they don't often advertise on the internet unless its through Craigslist or similar boards. You are really looking for Help Wanted signs in the window.Another trick that I have heard of is to focus on: part time, evenings and weekend jobs as these positions are harder to hire for.You will also have to come up with a "cover story" as I have been asked "So what have you been doing with yourself?" or worse, "How have you been supporting yourself?" Ugh!The larger companies will still interview somebody with gaps in their resume. This is notorious today. They will, however, ask for your cover story. Then, mock it usually since respect is nowhere to be found these days. So be ready to just sit through the drone of annoying questions and be prepared to be on-the-fly with responses. I think everyone makes up that part.And employers looked negatively at my 3 month gap after graduation. Another thing that hurt me. I didn't do all of the below:There were some employers that implied that I should have went to school?full time, work full time, and get straight A's. And they expected this in difficult?engineering?college?classes, not easy liberal artsy classes.Take that for what it's worth but this was my experience.From what I read, two things will seriously kill your chances of getting employed: 6+ employment gaps and being 50+ years of age. Do ANYTHING it takes so that you can put something in your employment section. I put week long temp assignments on mine so that I can say I've been working, because yeah, those?hiring?managers will give you the stankest look if you have no explanation as to what you've been doing. And they'll start digging at you, because I guess it makes you a terrible person if you have any sort of gap and are not working.I just tell them I've been doing temp assignments while looking for something stable. And I let them know I have been interviewing. I guess it makes you look like a "HOT" commodity. :xAgree about big companies. Most of the bites I do get are from very small stores or companies that don't use TALEO or Kronos, etc but rather a simple email web form or email via craigslist.The big companies no one in?HR?probably even saw it. The software probably junked it when it saw your job gap. THey have filters on these programs.I don't even bother with those big companies anymore. Big box retail same way. I won't touch them for their low pay.[QUOTE who="xboxer inclient00.chat."]I agree. A good GPA in an easy major isn't the same in a Math or Science degree. The leveling factor can be with jobs, though. The easy majors are a dime a dozen out there and can't find jobs.Those girls are usually hired into?HR?and end up being the ones that interview and hire you even though they have no clue about the job you're being hired for.I interviewed with two HR bimbos that were probably about 30 yrs old and they knew nothing about the position I was interviewing for or the technical parts of it. In fact one was chewing on gum or something during the interview.QUOTE who="xboxer in client00.chat." ]I get the visual on that. They are more concerned with their date last night and their Coach purses.?I don't get the higher up managers. How can they give these people power? Even if they are doing them nightly, still...why would they give them power that can wreck the?business? You'd think the owner or president would take notice.The company I interviewed for was about 85 employees they told me.Shouldn't the MANAGER of that department be the ones doing the interviews? I got a feeling this is why so many large companies are so inept these days. All these companies hire?HR?people to do the?hiring?and interviews and when it comes to the high skilled and technical jobs they end up passing up the most qualified people because they end up hiring someone who's around their age who looks hip and is an airhead.They let HR "Filter" out applicants.?They let HR "present" the best candidates to them.I had a friend who worked for a big company. She said whenever they needed someone, they had some resumes of qualified people, but HR told them they were not allowed to call them, that the candidate had to go through HR first.She said the resumes they would get from HR were NO where near the caliber of people of the resumes they had on their own.It's like these people want to ruin the company.It seems like these people just want to get and keep power for themselves, but really don't care about the company.?I have no sympathy for places that go out ofbusiness?anymore.A lot of companies outsource their HR to HR resource companies. It's their sole?business?to run payroll, benefits, and other.?Hiring?at companies is done by the hiring manager. It's very easy to do away with HR departments. They are unproductive. Companies usually have attorneys on retainer.I get what you are saying about those bimboes hiring people they feel comfortable with. It's just superficial and there should be accountability with what they are doing.Everywhere you look or read you see articles or what not about how today's generation (aka millennials) are in such MLB ad shape because due to the economy they can't find jobs and have so much student debt that they can't afford marriage or kids Yada Yada.... But yet it seems like most people I know from?college?and school (and I only graduated within the last couple of years) are getting married buying houses, new cars and having kids and stuff.It seems total opposite from the stories you see so what is really the case??not really goodgovt spending is out of control.therefore, your quality of life is not and won't be great.look at what happens when spending is not curbed. Greece, Detroit, Puerto Rico, New Jersey, where ever. and What happens to these places. few good jobs, high taxes, services decrease, companies move out, total disaster areas.the younger generation will be paying back this enormous debt therefore they will have less money for themselves for a quality life. someone has to pay the bill.In NYC they now have more retired police officers than active...pension, free?healthcare?for them...i'm not saying if they deserve or not i'm saying the bills need to be paid. and it's passed on to the younger generations. you made me depressed now. :(RECENTLY there was an article about chicago and the enormous property tax hike they are trying to push thru. more money out of your pock.But how many of those new cars and houses are bought oncredit? The real question is whether they will ever actually pay it all off.Not only are wages STILL stagnant and inflation is ever-rising, but millennials have to pay off their exorbitant student debt with these sorry wages. Considering highschool dropouts, highschool graduates, and?college?graduates are all competing for the same?entry-level jobs, today's generation is in VERY bad shape. At least a highschool dropout/grad can take home his whole McCheck, while Mr. BA/MA holder has to give some of it away for a degree that most likely will never payoff. It's a sad day when you're punished more for being educated.With the way things are going in America I'd say it's time to jump ship. If I had the money to leave I would.Everywhere you look or read you see articles or what not about how today's generation (aka millennials) are in such MLB ad shape because due to the economy they can't find jobs and have so much student debt that they can't afford marriage or kids Yada Yada.... But yet it seems like most people I know from?college?and school (and I only graduated within the last couple of years) are getting married buying houses, new cars and having kids and stuff.It seems total opposite from the stories you see so what is really the case??That might be a matter of selective perception. Even during The Great Depression, fortunes were made.The problems now may not be readily apparent. We don't make anything anymore. We are a personal services economy. We are nurses, fireman, teachers and?fast foodworkers. This puts us on the sidelines in the global economy.We have the largest single population ever and we have just had a few years of zero birth. There will be a slowing demand for sports cars and sippy cups.We are an aging population. Social Security will be broke within 25 years if nothing else is done. Fewer people paying into it and at a lesser rate.Finally, many of the assets you see being purchased are being purchased on either?credit?on inherited money. Inheritance money is dwindling. Expected to be pretty much gone also in 25 years.I can tell you personally that yes we are. I am in my mid-twenties with a bachelors degree and a solid $80k in debt for that piece of paper.As a result I cannot (and do not want to) purchase a home. So instead I rent and miss out on building equity.When I first graduated I grabbed a job (I was one of the few) that paid $37,000 a year. After taxes that is approximately $27,500 or $2,300 a month. My?college?loans came out to be $1,300 a month ($100k at the time) so I had $1,000 left to pay for rent, gas, car etc. Lets just say I made the smart move and stayed at home a while.I wised up and with the help of my parents consolidated those loans against the equity of their house. Instead of paying 11% interest (what 8-9% interest compounded daily comes out to) I was paying 3.5% and I was able to drop those payments to around $700. I also excelled at my job so I was able to secure a few promotions and a higher salary.However, I still cannot afford a house and cannot get a loan because of that outstanding debt. Now lets assume I am able to earn more money and pay that loan off faster. It is still a 15 year loan so lets assume I pay it off in ten years. I will be in my mid 30s. At that point signing a 30 year lease is out of the question because I will be having kids at that age and outgrowing said house. It wouldn't make sense before kids to buy a large house.Most of my generation is in the same boat as me. We are not buying houses at a young age and we are having kids at a later age. As a result having kids in mid thirties leads to working until around 60 just to get them out of said house that we cannot afford.This entire spiral leads back to a singular source - College loans. That bubble will burst and because of the strict repayment wording attached to them allows the issuers tochase?the debtors forever. So yes I would say our generation is in horrible shapeThe College loan crisis will soon come to a head for sure. But you are still in much better shape than most college students, and I wish I had a job making $37,000 coming out of college. I would have thought I was rich at that age. Most of the young people I know or see seem to be doing fine, or maybe I'm comparing them to me when I graduated. I headed right into a crappy min. wage job. It was embarrassing even being a college graduate.The more people can't find jobs, the more they run back to school. And everyone wants to get another degree and another to try to keep an edge on the competition. Schools are churning out students faster than jobs are created and even then employers want so many years of relevant experience that they knock out over half of those that applied (graduated) so they have to keep looking, along with that college loan debt strapped to their backs. The earlier you can find a "real" job the better.Don't forget that the average lifespan of a new hire in any company is under 5 years, and the average wait time between real jobs (unemployment) is now 2 years. New grads have no hope of repaying student loans. Ever.?Makes me very glad to have bailed on?college?after a year. I'd rather take my chances without a degree than spend the rest of my life trying to repay one. At least my?credit?survives.New grads have no hope of repaying student loans. Ever.?Makes me very glad to have bailed on?college?after a year. I'd rather take my chances without a degree than spend the rest of my life trying to repay one. At least my?credit?survives.The sad thing is, even the worse, lowest paying jobs want a college degree. They look at you like you're crazy because you don't have a degree to come there to staple papers or empty garbage cans. It's ridiculous. It's like 'you need to go to school for four years before you come here to answer our phones' yeah, that's what you dream about when you are walking across the stage to accept your diploma.I think more kids today are re-thinking their majors and trying to get a practical degree, unless their family has a lot of money and they can just live however until they find that job teaching?Japanese?Haikus they majored in.The sad thing is, even the worse, lowest paying jobs want a?college?degree. They look at you like you're crazy because you don't have a degree to come there to staple papers or empty garbage cans. It's ridiculous. It's like 'you need to go to school for four years before you come here to answer our phones' yeah, that's what you dream about when you are walking across the stage to accept your diploma.I think more kids today are re-thinking their majors and trying to get a practical degree, unless their family has a lot of money and they can just live however until they find that job teachingJapanese?Haikus they majored in.ther was atime if you had a college degree the employer was like.......WOW!!!!! It's no big deal now, everyone has one.What also makes it hard to get a decent job to pay off loans is that employers want experience and specifically want it in the industry they are in. and as everyone knows the interviews nowadays are just killer....even for a receptionist position.The sad thing is, even the worse, lowest paying jobs want a?college?degree.Agreed. I have seen employers ask for an Associates degree just to be a?data entry clerk. I mean that is ridiculous. And to top it off those ads will have pay ranging from $7.50 to $8.50 per hour. Back in the day I knew people in high school who had part time?data entry?jobs and they had not even graduated high school yet.One thing that also deserves mentioning is that it's not just "today's generation" or "the millennials" who are experiencing this. It's Gen X, it's Gen Y, it's the Boomers, it's *everyone* in the current job market. And the older generations suffer the most because they aren't putting off buying homes or having kids because they can't afford it. They are farther along in life & already have those things.People who have families go without?food. People who once owned houses are either getting foreclosed, moving into cheaper, smaller condos or living in RV's now. People who have nothing either stay with nothing or buy on?credit, which is later destroyed. This is what happens when the economy tanks. Everyone suffers unless they are wealthy or dependent on someone who is.Yep, true. everyone is suffering in their own way. Gen X and later have it the worse because they are in that middle ground where you do have several years (decades) of work experience and then find yourself out there starting over and having to take pay cuts and start at the bottom again. Baby Boomers at least might have gotten out of this mess with their pensions, SS and retirement funds. They are out of the job circuit and are the most fortunate I would say.Millennials or anyone going into?college?now or about to graduate at least see how bad the economy is and can start to plan better. They can focus on getting a marketable job, learn a trade early, don't get into a lot of debt (other than school loans) Not all of them will do that, but I wish I was 19 going into college now. I wish I could blow up this horrible road I've been on forever.?I just saw a sign in front of Walgreens,they are?hiring?"leaders"...they want the best and brightest for $10/HrProbably for part time and no benefits. Wow how can anyone resist?Also people act like pointing out the "now?hiring" signs means that you can just bet on getting those jobs. People in my family do this to me frequently. Now hiring doesn't mean squat. They want experience. And if you don't have the exact experience they want then you are passed over. It is not enough that you think you can do the job. They won't train you anymore. There used to be a time when you were given a chance and didn't need experience. But that is long gone. Every time I see a "now hiring sign" I want to rip it down especially if I applied there before and gotten rejected. It simply isn't a 1,2,3, solution to get a job. There are hoops and qualifications for even the most mundane positions.Absolutely true. Unless you are very young and can use youth to your advantage as in you are just starting out and have no work history. Other than that, all the want to know is what experience you have. Even if you highlight your transferable skills they wrinkle their nose. They want you walking in like you've been working there for 10 years. F*** these people.Transferable skills used to be valued. Now they are not. If you don't have specific experience or title, they won't even care about about all your other transferable skills. Its silly really. A?data entry clerk?with knowledge of computers, software, and basic office duties should be able to transition over to an?Administrative Assistant. But since that person has never held the title of?Administrative?Assistant?and does not have an associates degree, they are looked over. The good old days and common sense in the?hiring?process are never coming back.It all depends where you live.In SoCal, the vast majority of millennials are unmarried, debt-ridden, have no kids and struggle to make ends meet because the cost of living is so expensive. Then you have a minority of millennials who are living the American Dream because their parents have money. The only millennials with kids who I personally know are the ones who moved out of California to another state. The job market is very weak so many millennials are focusing on building start-ups though the failure rate is 90%.1. You pretty much need the exact skill set of the person you are replacing and be able to get up and running quickly. Employers are only interested in minimal training, preferably none at all.2. You need "the look". You don't have to be a super model or tall, dark and handsome but you need mainstream looks. Employers are looking for followers, they are not interest in someone who marches to the beat of a different drummer. This is especially true in large corporate environments. You need to be that corporate drone and kool-aide drinker. Although managers act like they're big "team" guys and doing everything for the good of the company, they are essentially doing everything for themselves. They are power players and empire builders, if they don't think you'll be a part of their empire, you probably won't be hired. You need to look corporate, talk corporate and act corporate. Practice on being a bland nondescript conformist.3. You're resume just didn't get picked. As has been discussed here many times, it's a numbers game.I am one who has seen ads which specifically say "unemployed need not apply". Since that wording didn't go over well, it has been replaced with "must have recent experience in.....", asking for a recent graduate (how blatant is that, no older need apply) and other similar phrasing.I know it John. Not too long ago, I was filling out an online application that used the "pull down menu" option for each question they asked. One on the questions was something along the lines of "Length of time at CURRENT employment" with no option to say you were not currently employed. No discrimination there. Sheesh! As if the unemployed have forgotten every skill they ever learned. Part of the reason I come on this board is to keep myself actively writing, even if it's nothing professional so to speak. I do a lot of things in my every day world that requires acomputer, time management, and organization.Was that a joke?We do a lot of that. The requirements to get a job once you become unemployed are just not obtainable any more, so we often joke with others with sarcastic advice, "don't become unemployed"...LOL. I think we all would be slashing our wrists by now if we didn't joke around with the subject at hand.To all those who doubt the existence of such ads, read the dozens of articles on it. As mentioned on this thread, they don't have to explicitly say "unemployed need not apply" What about "Explain in full detail employment gaps". "Position requires 'current' experience" Or they just find another frivolous reason not to hire. Case in point: I had an interview for an?airline?and they knew I was unemployed and kept grilling me about my 'experience' throughout the entire interview. My resume showed I went to cosmetology school and the male interviewer said "well you can give me a haircut sometime" I said "Oh, that's fine" His face changed to this disgusted look and the lady interviewer jumped in and said "that wasn't the right answer. You were supposed to say his hair looked fine and he didn't need a haircut." So I was considered being rude lol. I didn't get the job, but because they kept bringing up my unemployment every so minutes, I figured that's why I wasn't hired. I laugh about the whole haircut thing now. What a bunch of pricks.The requirements to get a job once you become unemployed are just not obtainable any more.So true! I have good solid skills but the problem always seems like the new job postings want 1 or 2 skills I don't have.No one wants to train anyone any longer.I'm so tired of the bs.this is a comment from a yahoo article that someone wrote (he got 6 thumbs up by the way and only 1 thumb down):[Dean]?Dean 19 hours ago?1?6"Larry you're full of BS. Americans they don't like?Hotelcleaning?jobs. I've traveled allaover US and every hotel I've stayed into have spanish, Hatian, or any other nationality, but white or black americans. They're either too lazy, picky and would rather collect unemployment or?food?stamps, or they have too much "pride" to do such a job making up rooms. That's the truth, after working in?Human Resourcesfor 10 years in 3 different?hotels?in the country."I nearly fell over in my chair when I read it.... what?!?! If this is the pervasive attitude then I might as well give up trying. what's the point? I can't win. according to common consensus i'm an entitled, young, minority american.CONT'Dhere's the real kicker (another comment from someone who clearly has never known hardship):?[JeromeB]?JeromeB 20 hours ago?0?6"Larry M, if a lot of American citizens are like my two younger kids, the?hotel?would have no employees. It is going to be bad for these two kids if they don't learn from my (presently) 3 weeks and 5 days of unemployment. I got a severance, vacation balance, and some other deferred bits of income and spent the month without dining out oncredit?card, without buying snacks on credit card, without agreeing to pay for any more of her?college?on credit card ... and they still don't smell the coffee. You have to work to live. Take a job, any job that pays even if it's not what you want. That's not exactly my advice, but the advice of my oldest kid who started working at 16, worked 3 part-time jobs until she started college, moved out at 18 and worked 2 part-time jobs through college until she got her RN certificate and started full-time Nursing at age 20, that was her goal. She kept on adding credentials for critical care nursing, got a BSN on-line, enrolled in a Master's of Nursing program and negotiated a 3-year program so she could keep working?full time?as a nurse while pursuing her Master's, then finally got that and got a job as a Nurse Practitioner. Oh, she got married 2 years ago also and put her husband's hiney into school and drove him to a 4.0 GPA and now he's got a good job too. 10 years of busting her #$%$ to earn her keep and do her school and she's now earning way into the 6 figures. If half of Americans had half her drive, we'd be running a 12% GDP growth rate. I start a new job Monday, using my valuable skill, making way above U.S. median income. I may have gotten terminated at the old job, but that's just a symptom of their managerial stupidity. "these false delusional attitudes are what we are up against folks. these are real comments. I'm not fabricating them.I am kinda tired of this the marketing of the so called American Dream that has the "pie in the sky get it when you die" undertone. So you are telling me go into debt for many, many years, then when I am dang near close to "retirement" or near my death bed I can finally "do well". Just like how people try say "money doesn't buy happiness." That is BS for the most part. Normally the people who tell you this are A)Poor people who have very falsified consciousness about the real value of-economic stability B)People who have the economic stability and want to keep the division between the have and have nots. These are the attitudes that a lot of employers have.."You must not be trying hard enough..This is America after all." This argument seems to be use a lot against minorities since we are typically depicted as lazy.I just finished a book on Abraham Lincoln which was a little different from what I remember in 5th grade. Lincoln would have been nothing but a country bumpkin lawyer without his crazy wife Mary-Todd. She was the daughter of a wealthy slave owner and well connected.Lincoln failed at everything he ever tried: log splitter, store owner, prairie lawyer, everything. It is who you know. Then, you can sell everybody the "reading by the firelight" stories.People Should care about others whether or not they know about them personally. This is one of the things wrong with society today, there is no?general?sense of?community?and belonging, it's each to his own and his own circle of aquaintences. I think sites such as FB make it worse instead of bringing people together it excludes certain people MORE. I learned that you're only supposed to say either "strongly agree" or "strongly disagree" when taking those kind of tests. Also, be consistent with your answers. They'll often ask the same thing rephrased to see if the person will answer them differently.I despise personality assessment tests. As far as I'm concerned, they're a sign of a micromanaging workplace.Here in California, good paying construction jobs that used to go for between $20 to $35 per hour and above, are now going for $9 to $11 per hour. Being bilingual is usually a requirement, so you can communicate with the mostly illegal workforce. Greedy employer's have figured out that they can hire 4 or more illegals for the price of one American worker. They teach illegal's the trade and then keep them at the low end of a diminishing pay scale for years to come. Illegals get into the workforce by working for peanuts and then gradually take over as wages fall below a sustainable level for most Americans. They then like to claim that they are only doing the jobs that most American's don't want, when in reality, they have literally under-priced the native population out of jobs.One of the main reasons for our immigration laws is to protect American workers from the unfair competition of foreign workers who under-price them out of the labor force. No enforcement and you get exactly what we are seeing today - high unemployment and a shrinking middleclass.FL has increased the fines to $10k should you do work without a permit but that doesn't stop the illegal immigrants from working in the field. Since the invasion, they have flooded the market and wages have crashed. It is now a bilingual workforce. There are ads for almost every position in FL as long as you are bilingual. In some cases, ads are strictly in Spanish; directed strictly to low wage workers.Construction jobs used to be highly sought after before the 1986 amnesty and the invasion of illegals that followed it. After graduating High School in 1970, I immediately went into construction where I was making $12.50 per hour, or $100 per day. That doesn't seem like much money today, but in 1970 you could buy a brand new Corvette for $5000 and rent a 3 bedroom house for about $350 per month.Today, a new Corvette starts at $52,000 and the rent for a 3 bedroom house will cost at least $2500 per month [California prices]. Yet, entry level construction jobs are now going from $9 to $11 per hour. There is simply no incentive to bust your butt all day long for the same wages you can make working at a 7-11The bottom line is that the huge influx of both legal and illegal immigration from 3rd world countries has substantially lowered wages and working construction jobs provide only meager wages that are unsustainable for most Americans with families and financial obligations. Hence the reason for a shortage of skilled tradesmen. This is also the reason why so many kids are going to college instead of learning the trades - there simply is no longer any future in construction and most other blue collar industries. Ironically, H-1B visas are now pricing college grads out of the high end jobs they are seeking. American's are getting squeezed out of the job market from both ends of the economic ladder. Hence the reason the middleclass is literally disappearing.?Hi?What I have done is combined a couple of temp jobs together to make it look as if I had been working the job assignment for a year or more, especially if it's with the same temp agency and that has worked for me with no problems. In Ca some employers will keep a temp on the job as long as Three years without the temp going permanent, don't ask me why, because this something that doesn't even make sense to me at all.Actually I know one person who is starting his 7th (yes, really) year working as a temp for the same company in the same job. Can't believe this is?legal.The company is blatantly taking advantage of him at that point. Sounds like the employee needs to demand a permanent position or look for greener pastures. Obviously he's an exceptional worker if he's been kept for so long so I doubt they'll just let him go if he really threatens to leave.True. The employee is an immigrant - probably Vietnamese or Laotian. Another guy I know had a heart attack and his company fired him while he was on his 2nd week of disability, and a woman who was in a union and was told she couldn't come back from maternity leave.Truly amazing the crap companies pull these days.It would be in the best interests of both employers & (potential) employees if $ were available to the unemployed for retraining/education?in state listed "in demand" jobs. Automatically. & unemployment would continue until certification/degree as long as student continues to do well.?Instead, the "in demand" job list seems compiled by someone's relative using random pages from an occupational handbook. YOU must provide 10 job openings to study/train for an "in demand" job. Nearly ALL the "in demand" jobs require special, specific training; it would take 10 years to compile 10 job openings.?BUT local employment centers insist that there is $, & you have to use their list(s) of providers, many of whom offer NO training/classes in those "in demand" jobs. Many offer the SAME training/classes in a few "in demand" jobs, like there are THAT many job openings. Really?Anyone else wonder how terrorists made it through the?hiringgauntlet to get hired and yet many sane and intelligent individuals did not? This seems to be a pattern. In fact most of the people who end up shooting multiple people lately seem to be doing pretty well financially.The FBI/police should stop focusing on the poor all the time. The poor can't afford high powered rifles and they certainly don't have the time while working multiple menial jobs to plan out anything.We need a damn revolution in this country and we need it NOW. I can't be the only one that's had enough...?I boycott ALL major retailers due to what people mentioned above.Yeah dude but the majority of people are stupid and will continue to support them cause they want their stuff and they want it now, just like a spoiled little brat.?I wouldn't mind working temp only jobs since you don't get entangled in the cliques, gangs, bullies @ most work places, & the mental unbalance of a lot of employers is a temporary dance around the?event?horizon of a black hole of hellish work environment. One of our temporary veterinarians made this statement.I agree with that part, but you never get any?healthinsurance. It's a big deal when something goes wrong with you. If you make over minimum wage, you won't qualify for any Medicaid.People can have good credit, but then have financial difficulties. So many people do not get health?insurance?with their jobs or they can't afford 500, 600, 700 a month for Obamacare, which doesn't pay for anything under 6600 dollars. So on top of that huge premium, you're paying full price for everything too.Don't flippantly tell me I am wrong, because I've really researched this and talked to agents about this.You have something go wrong, and it can bury you.?Even people who do have insurance, 20% of a large bill is a lot of money.Not everyone who has problems is irresponsible, a low life, uneducated, or deserves it.?Sometimes, sh*t happens. In the past, we all had insurance, etc., to avoid this.I have heard of insurance "plans" like that even before obamacare kicked in. And I have heard that many (basically all?) obamacare plans are like that.So, with this wonderful "fix" for the?health care, we seem to be even more screwed than before.... from the politicians who have the best of health care and retirement plans that we will never benefit from, yet pay dearly for......ou're probly right. it doesn't really matter in my case. I wouldn't mind working temp jobs if that's all I could get. I'd rather work than have the?healthinsurance?I have now. I can't stand doctors. So many of them it's like take this?chemical?or I'm not treating you. I think if you have an emergency you can still get treated but as far as having a GP no big deal don't like mine anyway so I rarely go to her. Whatever money I have I would save up for a naturopathic/holistic doctor because you can't get those on the Medicaid.If you have something really bad happen, you won't be able to afford it. That's my point.?But that's my point, I'd rather work, too...no one wants to be on the dole to just get health insurance, well, I shouldn't say no one...but we know we live better when we can work.The whole Unaffordable?Healthcare?Act avoids the people in the middle. It gives the very poor all the free healthcare they want, the rich can afford it, but those in the middle can't afford it.?I have heard ofinsurance?"plans" like that even before obamacare kicked in. And I have heard that many (basically all?) obamacare plans are like that.So, with this wonderful "fix" for the?health care, we seem to be even more screwed than before.... from the politicians who have the best of?health?care and retirement plans that we will never benefit from, yet pay dearly for......Yes, it's too costly and long ago, you could afford catastrophic insurance, but not now.The Middle Class in this country is sinking into the poverty levels. The poor and foreigners come here and get all the free?healthcare?they want. It's going to be the demise (literally) of the productive people.Even a lot of poor and working poor got screwed over as well though. The credits went to those in the middle. The poor were just suppose to be shuffled off into the states' already overburdened Medicaid system. Those that did not live in a state that chose to expand Medicaid were screwed. AHA's supposed consolation was that they poor wouldn't have to pay a fine. Yippee..... I went through that BS in 2014. Too poor for AHA but not poor or sick enough for Medicaid. Even if I had gotten Medicaid, the quality of care that I would have had access to would still have been a joke.Otherwise, I agree with you that the AHA is an overly convoluted joke.It was my father's generation that had great company perks. Paid?health?plans, retirement plans, paid health in retirement, etc.Of course, many of those retirement plans went broke in the 80's and 90's, but employees benefited quite well before then.A company I worked for in the 80's had a company doctor on premises. I actually used him at least once when sick. Won't find too many company doctors around these days, let alone sick leave....Even a lot of poor and working poor got screwed over as well though. The credits went to those in the middle. The poor were just suppose to be shuffled off into the states' already overburdened Medicaid system. Those that did not live in a state that chose to expand Medicaid were screwed. AHA's supposed consolation was that they poor wouldn't have to pay a fine. Yippee..... I went through that BS in 2014. Too poor for AHA but not poor or sick enough for Medicaid. Even if I had gotten Medicaid, the quality of care that I would have had access to would still have been a joke.I disagree. But I think the system isn't bad unless you have a serious condition. Medicaid and ACA is great if you don't have a serious medical problem. 100% covered for preventative care. But if you need to see specialist etc., hope you are making more than $40K a year. The?insurancesystem with ACA is setup so yo udon't pay more than 40% of your income. But who can afford that when rent is now over 70% of your income. There's the problem with?healthcaresystem, it's broken at it's core. No act by congress will fix unless we change the?business?system set by WALL STREET... Who are buying patents for prescription meds, and then marking up the price. It's a true story led by guys like Martin Shkreli.Oh yeah, about?health?insurance, Obamacare really isn't helpful. Supposing you don't choose to apply a tax?credit, which is based upon your income, bronze plans start at $200 a month or so for a single person. I find it hilarious that when I reported my income as $15/hr, it offered me a $30/month tax credit to use towards lowering my monthly payment, but when I was starting to fill out my 2016 application with the figure of $12/hr I was making at my temp job a few weeks ago, they offered a whopping $165/month, for just $3 less per hour!I haven't gotten to the part where I need to actually register for insurance, but I'm strongly considering not doing it and just paying the penalty for non-enrollment. It would be especially complicated if I were to apply a tax credit, since I would need to pay it back if I got a job that pays more than my income reported on the application, which absolutely is the goal. Also, I'm trying to get a job that offers health insurance. I had a bronze plan for a month and then cancelled it because it was too expensive, even though I had applied a small tax credit.It seems like almost no one benefits from the "Affordable" Care Act. It's made the cost of even private insurance rise substantially, and if someone making a low wage like $12/hr wants to apply a big tax credit each month, it gets complicated if that person eventually gets a better-paying job. With no tax credit applied, rates for the 2016 bronze plans start at $230/month, $3000 deductible, $30-$50 copay per doctor visit. Sounds pretty high for a single person to me.The most pertinent advice I can give to ANY young person is to follow your heart and do not listen to your parents as to what may or may not be practical.I have been diligently searching for a job. I have two state jobs I applied for. One job I applied for in April. The application status says: under review. The second job I applied for in June. Its status says: under review.Is this a positive thing? And how long typically or can an application stay "under review"?Yes, I am still applying for other jobs. I call and check on these apps and most of the time?HR?will not answer phone. And when I do get an answer they basically tell me to look online for status. I just wish they would let me know if the position has been filled.That means you have not been marked as eliminated in thehr?software yet (sounds like taleo). Your app may still be under review, it may not have been looked at by anyone yet, or it could have been eliminated and HR just didnt close out your app.I have applied to state jobs in the past and it has said the same thing. It just means you you haven't been rejected yet... but you haven't been selected for an interview yet. You're in limbo. There's no way to really tell with these things. Eventually the status would show that the job had been removed (they changed their mind about having an opening) or that I wasn't selected.I have been diligently searching for a job. I have two state jobs I applied for. One job I applied for in April. The application status says: under review. The second job I applied for in June. Its status says: under review.Is this a positive thing? And how long typically or can an application stay "under review"?Yes, I am still applying for other jobs. I call and check on these apps and most of the time?HR?will not answer phone. And when I do get an answer they basically tell me to look online for status. I just wish they would let me know if the position has been filled.It really means nothing. I have interviewed for positions that still say "under review" months later. They just don't update the system, which is very unfair to job seekers. But no one with a job seems to care about fairness to those who are looking.I heard that the?hiring?process for?government?jobs can be lengthy. I was hopeful when I saw that the applications were under review. But here I am almost 4 months later and the status still says "under review". One of the positions I really want. One in which I am very qualified for. I am filling out applications and still to be positive.One time, I applied for a job, got called for an interview immediately. Six months later, my application was still "under review." Seven months later, I got the reject email. Guess what? Application status is still "under review."Thinking positive is a good thing. Keep it up. It gets hard after awhile...Yes it does get hard at times. I choose to be filled with hope. And just because the job didnt pan out for you doesn't mean it will be the same for me. Job hunting is hard. I have began to shut out all negativity. I beginning to change my thinking. Talking and thinking negatively causes me to fill drained.It is EXTREMELY disheartening to apply for work the State of NC. I have applied for five positions since June of 2013. The last position I applied for and have every single qualification they're looking for, plus over a decade of experience, plus stellar references from every last employer and am willing to work for the salary they posted - have all come to zilch. This last application has been 'under review' for four months now. As others have stated here, I wish I had at least the option of talking to a live person who has some information. I will say this - if the State of NC employees' situation is like that of just about everywhere else, they're running on as few staff as possible and everyone is overwhelmed. There may just not be the manpower or resources to update and inform. In no way do I believe the situation to be 'personal' or as a result of some sort of 'corporate rudeness'. Everyone is understaffed and trying to do the work of half a dozen - or so it seems. I just try to keep positive and focused. I wish everyone out there - who is in "Limbo" - good luck - keep perserving!Yes it does get hard at times. I choose to be filled with hope. And just because the job didnt pan out for you doesn't mean it will be the same for me. Job hunting is hard. I have began to shut out all negativity. I beginning to change my thinking. Talking and thinking negatively causes me to fill drained.Amen - still looking and applying after 5 months - the application for the one job I want with all my heart - still says 'under review' - even with every single qualification they are looking for, over a decade of experience and a willingness to take the rate of pay they offer (even at 20K less than my last job) - and nothing. I've applied for five different positions, only one of which ever got to the 'under review' phase. Thanks for the reminder to stay upbeat. I'm getting ready to be offered a job that I'll probably take, but wish I'd heard something from the State. Well wishes going out to all you other job hunters.I know how you feel. I have been applying to North Carolina and South Carolina state jobs. As usually I get the application referred to hirning manager for South Carolina, and Under Review for North Carolina. Im waiting on that call still have not received.I don't know if this is the right place for this, but I really feel like ranting about a possibly systemic issue."Work has to be your highest priority."I hear this on the job, from my in-laws, on this sub, everywhere. I even feel forced to imply this at my work or during job interviews. But you know what? Work is not my highest priority and never will be. I don't hate my job; I actually enjoy it. However, I'm just sick of this western(?) idea that your work is your identifier and needs to be your "highest priority."Am I alone here? Am I a lazy worker? Or does everyone else feel this way but they simply pretend that work is number one?I'm just sick of living a lie: work sucks.Thank you.It seems to be something of a generational thing. Earlier generations lived to work, they got a job out of high school or possibly college and then worked at that same place until they retired. They showed company loyalty and the company rewarded them with pensions/retirement, full coverage insurance, and other benefits. It was the expectation, and it was worth it to make work your top priority then.Now that companies have slashed their benefits, stalled wages, and fire/lay-off at will, it doesn't inspire the same loyalty. Newer generations don't have the same company loyalty, we can't afford to, and have a stronger preference for work/life balance. Unfortunately not all companies have changed their expectations, though they've relieved themselves of the responsibility of taking care of their employees.My work is important to me, and I certainly consider it A priority, but I have other equally or more important things in my life as well.A lot of what drove older generations to throw themselves so completely into work culture was having a "light at the end of the tunnel", i.e., retirement. (Almost any amount of delayed gratification can be put up with if you maintain hope- or the company you work for or social institutions that recruit you choose to prey on that hope- that there will be a reward at the end of it better than what you had to endure.) But now that Social Security is facing different payout structures than once expected, cash-strapped municipalities are reducing services, and companies are finding ways to renege on pensions (i.e., the overall financial situation isn't as good for the lower and middle classes), people of that generation are having a harder time retiring and people of younger generations are beginning to expect we may not retire at all. So we're taking note of things like that, in a?really?strong way.Which is why we want compensation, in whatever form it takes (salary, work life balance, vacation time, hours flexibility, etc.)?now, up front, because companies have shown that they are capable of and?will?weasel their way out of living up to "their end of the bargain" when we try to make longer term expectations and even legal contracts with them.Some people tied to the previous way of thinking (who have benefited from it- or even ones who haven't, but who choose to just double down on sunk costs when confronted with them instead of change their thinking) will try to characterize our mentality as "lazy" or "apathetic" when it should be characterized as "justifiably distrustful".This is one example of the importance of social contracts, which isn't just some nebulous invented idea floating out there. It's a real phenomenon (or a useful way of thinking about and explaining what's been happening).They treated people like they were expendable in economic downturns? We began making continuous job searching, staying in the same positions for shorter periods and jumping to different jobs whenever we can, a normal part ofour?work culture, which heightened hiring costs associated with higher worker turnover for the companies anyway. Companies want to monitor and police our every move in the name of "efficiency"'s sake? We start having less intrinsic motivation at work and demanding more extrinsic compensation/motivation. etc.Businesses in this country backed out of their part of the expectations of how workers and employers interacted first. We're just responding to it.Here's how I feel about this; I don't have numbers to back it up but I'd venture to say 65-80% of the world does not like their job. Life should not be about working and being miserable for almost all of your life.We spend more time with our work colleagues and at work than we do at home or with our families(sleeping doesn't count). My recent job that I left which was the best job I had ever had wanted me to travel 6 months out of the year. I simply wasn't willing to be gone from my family for that long. They told me I either had to travel 50%, relocate or lose my job. Well, I don't have that job anymore.I swore as a kid that I would never be completely gone all the time like my parents.Money is the key driving force of all of this. Without money we cannot do anything or live, thus we have to work. However, I don't believe that we as humans were put on earth to spend the majority of our lives being miserable and by the time we can "retire" we are essentially too old to do most of FormWe do have to work to make money to live, yes.But too many people have taken that to excess, it's influenced managerial mindsets in all industries and people are killing themselves in order to look like a "model employee" by working 50, 60, 70 hours a week. And that's without even considering the insane fact that for a lot of people, maybe 50% of those hours spent in the office aren't even productive.If you work 50 or 60 hours a week now, would your life really be any worse off if you worked 40?Bottom of FormWell, in my previous job as a Business Analyst, I told my management I would not work more than 40 hours a week as my family was more important than work.One thing my manager told me after leaving was that my unwillingness to dedicate more time to the job/company earned me a bad reputation and that if I wanted to do better going forward I needed to be willing to work as long as it takes and put the company first.He worked 80-90 hour work weeks and traveled every other week. I just can't see how this would be an enjoyable life.I was always a hard worker in school, and I enjoyed learning and attending school. I had a lot of pride in being a good student, and always took my work very seriously. I made straight A's, went to college and got decent grades, but after growing up and getting into the workforce, I just can't stand the work culture in most places I've been...especially larger companies, or smaller companies contracted by larger companies. I was told many times that life gets better once you get in "the real world", but I feel like the real world really fucking sucks. I feel like I'm micromanaged too much, and I don't have a feeling of "freedom" when working. I feel like the companies do not value their workers unless you belong to the clique of management. Work just feels so "robotic", impersonal, and unrewarding unless you get lucky and find a place that actually cares about all of their employees (and I have yet to find a place like that).The pressure to work more than 40 hours a week doesn't just come from your employer. It can also come from you. Lets face facts here. People are always out to make more money. Some will sacrifice longer drive times to get it. Some will sacrifice more time away from their families to get it. All because people want to buy crap they don't need in order to fill a void that shouldn't exist.I am not saying that employers are exempt from this, but there are a lot of pressure issues that are self imposed.I graduated in May 2015 with a Bachelors in Physics and a Bachelors in Computer Science (dual-degree, not dual-major). My GPA was not the best, only a 3.52, but I did 4 separate internships in the relevant field, and am even in the review process of publishing a paper in an academic journal. And yet I still can't find anyone to hire me. Other than having a higher GPA, I don't know what I could be reasonably expected to have done better. Everyone seems to want more experience from me, but I don't know what more experience a 24-year-old recent graduate would even have, and I can't get any more because it's a Catch-22. I'm looking for a job in Computer Science specifically, but I always seem to get shut out due to lack of experience. I live in Hampton Roads, and am having trouble finding CS jobs that don't want 10 years of experience (All of them say they want at least 3, but I figure if all of them say that they can't all possibly mean it or everyone would be unemployed, but if they want 10 it's clearly above my level). Of the ones I've applied for, I got an interview for almost half. I wear formal clothing, arrive promptly, greet my interviewer and act appropriately throughout, answer their questions, and get a call/e-mail back turning me down every time. They always say my experience isn't good enough, but since that information is on my resume it makes me wonder why I am ever even called in. I'm really at a loss for what else to do. I know there are recent Computer Science graduates out there that have jobs, and I know not all of them have better qualifications, so I don't understand what I am doing wrong. How do I go about finding a job that will give me a chance?Part of the issue is it seems every job wants someone with experience with some obscure language/software that it's unlikely anyone would have without already working there. I only know C++, C#, Java, Python, HTML, JavaScript, PHP, CSS, XML, and MySQL, which are all pretty standard (yes, I know not all of those are programming languages, technically). Most jobs seem to want some other language I don't know and many times I haven't even heard of, or experience with some sort of specialized software.Hey man, are you my twin? I graduated in May with a CS degree, still no job, and we have the same similarities (minus me knowing C++ and being near Manhatten). All I can think of is that I'm autistic and no one has bothered to tell me. Fortunately you passed on to the onsites, so you're doing something right.Hi Gang!?Well I'm back out on the streets looking for work, I know my search will be temporary, but I am slowly giving up on my dreams of becoming a home owner, sadly I hang my head and will more than likely end up being a permanent room renter since this economy is Not getting better by any means. But I'm alive and doing my very best to stay positive. I do hope you all have a very nice Christmas and new years. :)?Oh on update on health - going to nerve doc and heart doc in Feb. Still looking for an orthopedic doc for second advice on my right leg. I do know there is a tumor in the bone that may be causing my inability to walk with a limp along with my leg now giving out. Ughs, such is life. XoxoxoxoxoOh Fight, It ticks me off that you just can't seem to catch a break. I'm really hoping something goes through for you.Have you thought of going the RV route?My rant of the day.... staffing agencies and the salaries they post.A local business has farmed out a temp job to a bunch of staffing agencies -- at least eight agencies by my count. They don't all list a salary, but the agencies that do are all over the place... from $13/hr to $22/hr.I saw the $13 version first, and just laughed.And of course, the job requirements would seem to justify even more than $22.I worked for one company that would often job out ONE job to half a dozen different temp firms and just let them beat the bushes for them. All they were concerned about was the price tag.Many companies amaze me these days with the low salaries and lack of benefits. I noticed a post on reddit this morning about someone who was offered a "promotion" with no corresponding pay increase. When they asked about the pay, the company responded that he would get "experience and learning" type thing.Those of us who have been paying some attention to the job market for the past 10 (or more) years, many salaries have remained stagnant.... while prices of many things we buy (rents, utilities, groceries, etc) have been increasing. I am at a loss to explain how the economy hasn't collapsed yet.The job I have now pays the same as a job I had back in 2001. The only reason I am getting by is that I have a low mortgage, have a 14 y/o car, and attempt to keep my other expenses down.I just gave up my temp agency recruiting job, strictly because of ethics. It's all about numbers and money. I can't begin to tell you how many people came into our office that were qualified, but never placed. But, it looked good on the end of the week scorecard having a new name on the list! Agencies need to stop wasting people's time. The girls I worked with would never qualify for a professional, office job. They came from retail and they need to go back, b/c they do not possess the skills to manage/coach people. I came from a?HRDepartment and was digusted the first week at the agency after witnessing the operations.Yes..I agree with the concept of most on this page that temp services are a waste of your time...I was registered with one that after I had completed an assignment they did not have anything else for us to go to...but upon going to a job fair a couple of days later...lo and behold they were there recruiting people??? When I got in line and came up to the rep which I knew I got a veryyyyyyy red faced person looking back at me!! Go figure!!!It is not just recruiting firms...Many companies now place phony employment ads on websites and in newspapers. The reason is two fold. Get their name out there as much as possible, and secondly to give competitors the impression that?business?is booming.My husband was recenlty laid off from a hi-tech company. He was fortunate enough to receive services from an outplacement service who warned him of this latest practice.OR...they're trying to get a green card for an H1-B worker. Americans need not apply.?Video expose by Programmer's Guildwatch?v=TCbFEgFajGUA message to all you Job Agencies and so called "recruiters"You're probably a job agency or "recuiter" that gets paid for every resume you recieve to just waste the time of others!A MESSAGE TO ALL APPLICANTS!!!?Do not waste your time with any job agencies. It's a joke! They tell you they have all these jobs which they do not! To me that's FALSE ADVERTISEMENT! They are the ones that place ads for the same position about a hundred times a day. There is no need to do that. What the crap are they doing with all the resumes of the "walk-ins" they receive and the ones they've collected months ago? Actually I'll tell you.........they are either selling the applicants personal information to telemarketers or other companies, they are getting paid for every resume they receive, or they are using them to get ideas to fill out their own resume!Job seekers really need to SLAM the job boards (e-mail them) with complaints about RHI, Office Team, and the other agencies and tell them to stop posting fake ads as it wastes our time and is fraudulent and deceptive. If they get enough complaints, will they change? Maybe not as it's money to them. But it does hurt their credibility.I am a recent?college?graduate who is looking for employment in?accounting?or pretty much any related field. All the jobs in the newspaper and job sites are listed through recruiters, such as Robert Half and others. I have tried several of them, but have had no luck. I can't have five years of SAP experience when I am just out of college. I have my master's degree in tax and am a humble person willing to start at?entry level. I can't even find that with the recruiters. They just won't place me in a position.I too have been dealing with staffing agencies on and off for the last 25 years. Ten, fifteen, twenty, or even twenty-five years ago, you could just simply call up a staffing agency, make an appointment, go in and register, take all the tests, and they kept you on file no matter what.Nowadays, they want to see your resume first, and they only call you if there's a suitable opening. They've literally become the?human resources?departments for these companies. The reason that they ask for resumes first is because they don't want to become bombarded with too many applicants, and they don't want to waste both their time and the applicant's time if "they're not a good fit".You're right about one thing. They do post phony job ads! For example: last Friday (August 21), I dropped off a copy of my resume at Randstad in downtown Philadelphia, and for months, they have had the same job postings up on their front door. I inquired about one of them, but the girl there said that they were only?hiring?for licensedinsurance?agents. I have often asked them if these are actual job openings or is this just a way to generate applicants, and they have said both. I have even given a piece of my mind to some of them, and then they say that they can't use me anymore. I also remember seeing an ad for acustomer service?position at Careers USA. I went through the entire application and testing process, but then it turned out to be a telemarketing position; a job that I did not want. I gave them a piece of my mind and now they say that they can't use me anymore. Why not? Because I spoke my mind about this.I've been out of work since early July, and I'm not going to waste my time dealing with any agencies that don't take my skills and experience. I'm better off going directly to the companies.And by the way, some staffing agencies are a bunch of liars.For example: over ten years ago, I went to register with a staffing agency in downtown Philadelphia. I did an assignment with them four years earlier. Then all of a sudden, a few weeks later, they tell me that they can't use me anymore because I refused to accept the fact that the assignment was over and that I was escorted out of the buidling. That's a downright and boldface lie! That never ever ever happened! I was only there for one day because they didn't have enough work and I left the buidling on my own; without being escorted out.They will also call you for jobs that you're not either qualified for or are in questionable areas. When I've gone into these staffing agencies, I tell them just exactly the type of work that I'm looking for and the locations where I want to work at. But no: they don't listen! One of them, Snelling, said that they could no longer use me. Well that's just fine and dandy! Because I have turned down jobs that were either too far out for me or I just didn't feel qualified for them.Like I said earlier, I'm not wasting my time with any staffing agencies that don't take my skills. I'm going directly to the companies instead.Good old RH. I tried to use them once, and that was it. I will never see the need for staffing companies. You are either qualified for a position with company or not. You really don't need someone else to figure this out for you. I never apply for a position that I am not qualified for. Once they decide for some reason that they don't like you, you miss out on so many job opportunities that could be perfect for you. Ten or fifteen years ago I could just look in the paper and if there was a job ad I knew it was probably legit. Afraid those days are gone.I am?college?educated and carry a Master's degree. I completed grad school with a 4.0. These are the jobs I have been offered from "reputable" employment agencies over the past two years since I finished school:1. Sandwich board sign holder. Pay $8 an hour, length of employment, 1 day.?2. Unloading a truck, pay, $9 an hour, 1 day.?3. Telemarketing for minimum wage.?4. Telemarketing for minimum wage.?5. Telemarketing for minimum wage.I have never once been offered a job worthy of my qualifications or?education?level from a so called "employment agency." Anyway, I leave soon to go teach English overseas. Not what I thought I'd be doing, but I'm contracted directly by the school for a year and the pay is actually pretty good considering the low cost of living.The two biggest scams in America are college and employment agencies. End of story.I've had experience with RH and a couple other staffing agencies.My advice? Don't waste your time with these lackeys.I recently graduated and decided to use RH to get placed with a company somewhere (at the same time as applying to companies myself). I got matched up with a recruiter who said she had the "perfect" opportunity for me. SO I decide "Why not?" and go in for the initial interview and everything goes very well. She says that she really likes me, sends me an e-mail about the company and what to expect in an interview with the managers as she will be talking to them. Two weeks pass and I hear nothing. I call to follow up, find out she's out on vacation. Two weeks pass again, I get a call from her basically asking me what my elevator pitch was again because she got an e-mail from the company asking "Why I wanted to get into their field". So I told her again and she says "perfect answer." I ask what the next step would be from here and she said she would send me an e-mail about the interview with the manager. And what do you know? I recieve nothing. I kinda figured the e-mail was sent to her while she was on vacation and since she took so long to respond, they went with another candidate.No biggie to me though, because at the same time I was applying to companies myself and recently landed a full-time job with a very nice company, all through my own hard work.I tried other staffing agencies before giving up on them as well. They just send you in loops over and over again. I don't know one person who landed a job through a staffing agency (probably because its a rare occurence).APPLY TO COMPANIES YOURSELF, DON'T RELY ON ANYONE ELSE TO DO IT FOR YOU. Lesson learned.It's a numbers game. There are several things happening that I see, rightly or wrongly:?1. Increasingly companies and?governmentagencies are only keeping people up to the last day of their?contract?or probationary period regardless of performance or conduct.?2. Recruiters are just that, recruiters, not client servicers their reward system does not reward them when someone is recruited and put on a job. The recruiter gets paid regardless of what happens to the people they recruit. If the recruited is put on contract the recruiter gets more money.?3. Recruiters are recruiting too many people. (Quotas)?4. Recruitment, staffing, temp firms do not need everyone they recruit to have jobs in order to stay profitable.?5. There is zero client servicing on the job seeker's side because the job seeker does not give money. This is done so recruiters are not held liable for bad service or performance.?6. The Client (Employer) changes the requirements on the fly. (Seen in gov't?contracts)?7. The internet has made settling for both the employee and employer unnecessary. As quickly as a job is filled both parties can begin to look for something or someone else so that in the case of the employer additional benefits, pay, or protections do not have to be afforded to the employee after a certain amount of time or goals are reached. Hence the rise in and use of and lengthen of probationary periods, temp to hire or contract based work.?8. Broad or obscure definitions of failure used to let probationary, temps, or contract employees go.?9. The use of no reason needed probationary periods (Seen in the?federal government) to get rid of people who don't fit some non-work related agendas.?10. Lack of and unwillingness to invest (Both employee and employer)?11. Cost of skill or knowledge improvement getting prohibitive with rewards being less and less.?12. Rising cost of just living or functioning (everybody)?13. Ethics, social trust, loyalty (or lack ther of)I just gave up my temp agency recruiting job, strictly because of ethics. It's all about numbers and money. I can't begin to tell you how many people came into our office that were qualified, but never placed. But, it looked good on the end of the week scorecard having a new name on the list! Agencies need to stop wasting people's time. The girls I worked with would never qualify for a professional, office job. They came from retail and they need to go back, b/c they do not possess the skills to manage/coach people. I came from aHR?Department and was digusted the first week at the agency after witnessing the operations.I have also worked for Express and you are right. I hated and constantly fought back with the notion of treating people as a number. I am still in recruiting, but I stick to my principals. To be fair, it's usually not the 'recruiters' fault, it's these crazy organizations where you can only be 'successful' based on the number of people you bring in, never mind if they are actually placeable or not. It gets people's hopes up and even though you think they're great, you don't have an opening to fit their skill set at that time.I have to agree with the recruiter who said "apply to companies yourself." I recently had a terrible experience with temp to hire situation through a staffing agency. It was the first time I'd gone this route. For six months, things went well, I got great feedback about my work and was told I was going to get hired by the manager of the firm I was placed at. Unfortunately, some of the job duties changed such that I no longer met the physical requirements of the job. At first, my manager at the firm I was placed at said that he would try to place me elsewhere in the company. Unfortunately, this never occurred, and mycontract?was terminated. It was a horrible experience, like getting fired, which has never happened to me. The placement agency did it in public, in front of coworkers. In?general, the management at the staffing agency was very unprofessional, gossiping about my coworkers' medical problems, and spreading rumors about me. It was worse than awkward having a third party between me and the management at the company I was placed at.?Communication?got distorted, resulting in severe misunderstandings. I could probably sue the staffing agency for breaking all kinds of laws. They should have provided severance.I am glad for the job experience I got, but I will never try a placement firm again unless I get desperate. (Which may well happen.) My concern is that most placement firms were never meant to be long-term employers. Their concern is for their clients, not their employees. There might be some excellent placement firms that are good to work for, but, at this point, I will try to avoid them. I'm heartbroken about the loss. It was very traumatic to go through. If you can stomach it, however, it would be a better idea to sign up with placement firms and do temp work rather than be unemployed. If the job duties had not changed, and had not misunderstandings occurred, I probably would now have a permanent job with a good company.I also went through this company. Not only did they treat me as if I was second rate to them but as a single mom of five, they sent me out to interviews to interview for a job I was overqualified for over and over even when I mentioned to them that I couldn't just keepdriving?to interviews without having a job. They used me as a filler. I have?education?and experience behind me reflected on my resume and they were sending me to basic receptionist positions 30 miles from my home knowing I wouldn't get the job. I went to several. My last interview I got a flat tire and told them I'd have to reschedule. I followed up the next day and again mentioned not sending me to positions I'm overqualified for and they've never called me again. My agency was in Knoxville, TN and I wouldn't recommend this staffing agency. I have some experience with staffing agencies at this point and it seems like the job the corporations hired them to do and was done well for yrs, is now a joke. I've been hired without filling out an app and started that night. What's that???? Laid off two months later and never warned by that agency and that's TWO! If people don't start speaking up writing, blogging...fighting, it will get worse for us and better for them.I'm not blaming the recruiters, but I do blame the temp agency I worked for Kelly's for ^ months they sent me two texts telling me the job assignment was over, I was already on the job when I got the message so the company just called in and extended my assignment. I was looking for temp to hire these jobs don't want to hire anyone because they don't have to pay for insurance or 401k. I worked for six months then had an accident had to take off so they replaced me with someone else that's not the problem I have four years of unemployment on the books because I wouldn't go back to that job they stop my unemployment stating I quit. These temp agency are full of it this is mordern day slavery you don't have the right to quit a job or change a job if you are not happy. When I have worked 18 years straight I am entitled to my unemployment I worked 18 years for what. Right now I have no income because I refuse to work for a company that try to hurt there employee so they have put me in a stressful way. I will never work for them anymore or refer anyone.I use to work for Management Resources and they would have us write generic job postings. The actual job usually did not exist but they would write ads for controllers, cost accountants, sarbanes oxley specialist, ect. The purpose of these positings were to build their candidate base. Once they have your resume, they can peddle you. It's never about you with Robert Half, it's about them and how they can create a sale, even if its the wrong situation for both parties.It is really so sad that a company has to resort to these kinds of mis-leading though not illegal practices to attract candidates.?This firm cannot be trusted.RobertHalf is unreliable-it is frustrating to look for a job as it is and having a company giving you false hopes is definitely unfair. I have been looking for a job since May of this year (2007) and I interviewed with one of their recruiters, Andy Marmolejos. I recently left him a message regarding my resume and to let him know I was still looking fo a job and he sent me an e-mail telling me the latest resume he had on file was from 2002!!!!!!!!!!! ROBERTHALF IS A DISGRACE to those looking for a job. Stop using up all that space online and get out of?business!!!!!!!!!!!!When I first lost my job in 2005, I contacted Robert Half to help with job placement in two areas:?administration, and IT. Neither division ever contacted me about positions that I was able to find online. I never received one single phone call from them. I called my recruiter (don't remember her name, but she is/was in Ontario, Calif.) weekly, and was assured that she was looking. I would bring up the jobs Robert Half advertised online with places like Monster and Dice, and she would always answer "I was not aware of those positions," even though her name was on the job ad. Needless to say, while I am still looking for work, I will *never* answer a job ad from Robert Half. I agree with Jeff,?with RH, it's not what you know, it's who.I found that Robert Half in Minneapolis is not a good?business?if you are looking for work. You go in for the initials interview after applying for a specific job. And they start a back ground on you but nothing about the job you applied for. They talk a good game but in 10 m months they never set up one interview. And after e mailing my recruiter numerous times I would never get a response. I am not sure how Robert Half makes money but they have total disregard for you when you are looking for work. There is no way that I would expect anything from them.?So after 10 months never a response to e mails of any job interviewsThe worst place to use resources for job seeking , honest speaking. I had bad bad bad experience with this company i don,t know how they generate revenue. I agree many of the comments above. I had to change my recruiter within robert half many times thinking maybe the problem is that particular recruiter because you will never heard them after the first interview. Once they get your resume that is it done. I don,t know do they sell?customer?data?to generate revenue?..I will suggest anybody using these corrupt recruiters to leave asap otherwise you wasting your valuable time with so call RH.Ironically I work as a mental?health?counselor?for four years. I can do nursing it take about 3 year's to complete the program or?engineering?same time frame.Looked into teaching but when I went to the open house I wanted to run away. Gave me statistics that 50% of students find work and most is temporary work.I was #1 in sales [for JPMorgan Chase[ in the whole location and was still canned on BS trumped up reasons. They are trying to kill American jobs by making our lives so difficult we will quit or get so fed up we push back giving them reasons to get rid of you! That way they can outsource even more American jobs!Face it.?Chase?is not an employee friendly company. If you want to have ANY quality of life work elsewhere. I worked there 4 1/2 years. Management has a good thing going there. They don't do anything but put unwarranted pressure on employees that are already stressed from the work load.Here's a good one for you boys and girls. While the average employee gets paid less and less every year, either through "incentive" pay getting cut or hourly pay being reduced, here's the reason...?Jamie Dimon made last year...$1 million in salary?$14.5 million in bonuses?$356K in "other compensations" whatever that is?$13 million in stock options and awards?for a grand total of....?may I have a drum roll please...?$28.9 millionHis pay up 5%?Your stocks down 7%Gnaw on that one for awhile.I just was fired in May from?Chase?at the Troy location. I also had reached 5 years there and felt a sudden increase in harassment. A manager I had seen maybe once in 5 years was following me around the facility. When I came out of the bathroom she was waiting outside for me. I asked her if she wanted to verify if I had actually gone to the toilet....for that I was fired...It's hard to say if they intentionally harass you or if they hire so many idiots that you just have to deal with their complete stupidity.I am unemployed as well and like someone said above, I am happy as ever not to have to go into that hole again.The job was bad enough on its own, but to have to be continually harassed and to have the idiot managers constantly screwing up your pay....AND LYING TO, it just gets to be too much.A wise note to anyone working at Chase....KEEP RECORDS. They will cheat you out of pay and they will lie to you to get you to work. Keep records if you have to take them to?court.For example, it's Chase's policy to only reward holiday pay to people that work that holiday. So if you work every day but Monday but a holiday is on Monday, then you will not get paid, but someone who works that day will get it off....AND get it paid. So you can work 5 days in one week, get paid 5 days. And a co-worker could work 4 days and get paid 5 days. Pretty unfair, huh?ello,I am still on STD with?Chase?but I'll tell you that it has been my worse nightmare. Somedays I hate them they make everything very difficult. Here is my email address if you want to email me privately: beansmusic@?Make sure to put on subject: disability so I won't delete you by mistake.ThanksLeslieI know someone that went on disability through Chase after falling at a Chase facility. I think they paid her....then asked her to pay it all back. So she was on disability, had no income from Chase and they wanted $1000s back from her.Chase is cold-hearted and calculating. They cheat their customers with FEES that are hidden, with FEES they barely disclose in the begninng and?generalvisciousness toward the customers. Chase does not value customers, they see them as easy prey. AND that's how they treat their employees as well.I was on maternity leave starting 07/28/09. I started atchase?07/28/08. My manager told me that if I was there less then a year that I would only get 60% pay but a year or more would get 100% pay. Luckily I hung in there until the 28th which my due date was the 27th but my doctor let my go over so i could get paid. I did get 100% pay for 12 weeks, but only bc i made it until the 28th, otherwise I would of got paid 60%. I also quit about ten days after I came back bc i couldnt handle all the stress. And the only reason I was there until i had my baby was bc I knew I was going to get paid for 3 months off. Everyone there kept saying they couldnt believe I was still there and pregnant bc almost all the girls there that are pregnant either quit or get fired. I couldnt afford it at the time so I hung in there.?I can stay that I havent spoke w one person that liked their job unless they were off the phone. I would never go back and I am currently unemployed and also much happier then being there.What company doesn't look at their bottom line? If you work hard and produce then you will be fine. What company is going to pay an employee who doesn't produce?This person obviously never worked at?Chase. I was supposed to keep my portfolio for 18 months and they changed the comp plan after 3 because my income was more than the managers. STAY AWAY!!!I was top ten in sales for nearly 5 years straight and number 1 the month I was shown the door...all because I had the gall to question why they were screwing me on my paycheck. I agree...STAY AWAY!I was on maternity leave starting 07/28/09. I started at?chase?07/28/08. My manager told me that if I was there less then a year that I would only get 60% pay but a year or more would get 100% pay. Luckily I hung in there until the 28th which my due date was the 27th but my doctor let my go over so i could get paid. I did get 100% pay for 12 weeks, but only bc i made it until the 28th, otherwise I would of got paid 60%. I also quit about ten days after I came back bc i couldnt handle all the stress. And the only reason I was there until i had my baby was bc I knew I was going to get paid for 3 months off. Everyone there kept saying they couldnt believe I was still there and pregnant bc almost all the girls there that are pregnant either quit or get fired. I couldnt afford it at the time so I hung in there.?I can stay that I havent spoke w one person that liked their job unless they were off the phone. I would never go back and I am currently unemployed and also much happier then being there.I agree. After I was fired, yes I was unemployed, but it felt like the world had been lifted off my shoulders. I am so-o-o-o much happier now. It's not just the phones either, it's the caustic environment that Chase brought to the merger.?Bank?One was a good company to work for...Chase...not so much!I wanted to ask you about your short term disability. Were you a PB? I am under short term disability now and am having a lot of problems.Does anyone know if you are a PB and are under STD do you only get 60% of your base salary? If this is true how are you supossed to really pay the bills?It is true. And then you go back, they make you do side by sides with people who are afraid to stay home even though they are sick and running fevers, so you get sick. And then they call you in the conference room and terminate you. They escort you off the premises in front of everyone so that they keep those still working in constant fear of also being terminated. I was the sixth termination in a months time in my department.With all the paperwork starts to come in you realize that there is so much inconsistency. I have so far 3 different dates of termination depending on what they need it for. I have requested a letter of confirmation for my termination so I can get?food?stamps for my sons and it will take weeks to get the paperwork as I will have to write in a request, wait for the response, that is if they actually admit to receiving such. I also received a letter stating they overpaid me and they want the money immediately or else.I was told by my manager that I would NOT be eligible for unemployment. If they are going to fight it, I'm not sure we will not end up in a shelter.They are constantly messing up peoples paychecks and then expecting them to wait until the next check for any?corrections. Legally they only have 3 days to correct.I have much more but will stop now.What company doesn't look at their bottom line? If you work hard and produce then you will be fine. What company is going to pay an employee who doesn't produce?It has nothing to do with "producing" at?Chase?or all it's various versions of "JP Morgan..". Being excellent at your job, going above and beyond, working long uncompensated hours, doing all the "right" things, will not protect your job. Neither will being profitable.This is not a company I would recommend working for, no matter how desperate your situation.All the people I know who have lost their jobs at Chase, by their plan or Chase's, have not regretted it. Yes, they may be suffering financially, but they all feel the weight of the world has been lifted from them.You are so correct, JP MORGAN?CHASE?BANK?IS A SWEATSHOP!! I was ranked #3 for processor loan closings several months in a row, however, my Supervisor wrote me up for production so they would have an excuse to not pay bonuses or commissions. They will ALWAYS find a way to cheat their employees out of money, another example of many is if you start with Chaseworks or other temp agency any loan that is assigned or application for loan dated during your temp time (which was several hundred to each temp processor)you are not eligible for the commission or bonuses on these loans even if you worked on the loan from day one and it closes after your official start date as?full time?perm. Chase employee! And it should come as no surprise that Chase Supervisors and VPs will not tell you these facts so they can get more loans closed without paying the ones who did all the work!Google?"JP Morgan Chase fines" to find out about all the fines Chase has been given for lying, cheating, deceit to employees and investors not to mention the help Chase gave Enron and other big companies to cheat their investors too all so they could give money to themselves and their friends! Guess I didn't make the friend list but I have started a lawsuit against Chase for denying my unemployment, wrongful termination, discrimination, and so much more and my attorneys feel very confident of winning with all of my documentation, including over 950 different documents of Supervisor's emails, pipeline reports, conversation logs and so many other pieces evidencing Chase's lying, cheating, and theft! It is my sincere hope that anyone thinking of becoming an employee or?customerof JP Morgan Chase Bank will do your homework, read everything in here, and do Google searches to make a wise and informed decision so you can save yourself from the pain, anxiety, and aggravation this Bank is known to for!!JP Morgan is a really terrible place to work. Working smart is not rewarded-- rather hours in the trenches is what's valued more. If you can't work 18 hour days 5 days a week and then 12 hours both on Saturday and Sunday then look elsewhere. Also this is even worse for woman. This is the worst environment I have ever seen for woman. Woman are clearly targeted. It is no wonder that Men dominate the work force in the IB group. I do not write this lightly as I work in a male dominated field but this is the worst I've seen in my 30 year career... beyond description. I would recommend that you continue to look for another job if you are considering it. If you think it can't be as bad as everyone describes you are wrong. I have seen some of the strongest woman I know (and men for that matter) say daily that they hate working there. My advice is RUN.IF YOU HAVE A LIFE, FAMILY AND DO NOT WANT TO BE STRESSED/DRAINED PHYSICALLY, PSYCHOLOGICALLY, MENTALLY & EMOTIONALLY. PLS DO NOT WORK AT THIS?BANK. JP MORGANCHASE?PARTICULARLY AFTER ITS MERGER WITH BANK ONE HAD BECOME A VERY STRESSFUL PLACE TO WORK WITH, MANAGEMENT RUNS THE COMPANY LIKE A BOOTCAMP WITH NO RESPECT WHATSOEVER TO ITS EMPLOYEES LIKE A SWEATSHOP SO TO SPEAK. YOU WILL NOTICE THAT THEY ARE CONSTANTLY?HIRING?ALMOST ALL POSITIONS IN ALL DEPARTMENTS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY BECAUSE OF THE VERY HIGH TURNOVER OF EMPLOYEES, EMPLOYEES COME AND GO AND USUALLY JUST WORK FOR A SHORT PERIOD BECAUSE OF ITS VERY HOSTILE WORKING ENVIRONMENT. JUST BASICALLY A REVOLVING DOOR. MANAGEMENT LOOKS AT ITS EMPLOYEES AS BOTTOMLINE PROFITS AND NUMBERS TO THEM.I couldn't agree with you more. My experience was that 10 interns joined JP Morgan one summer and with all receiving offers only 5 returned... even in the this very bad job market. The company is terrible and treats their employees the worst. These were all highly accomplished individuals. I can't stress enough that this is a terrible place to work.I worked for them for 5 years. It was the least professional and worst place I've every worked. I would suggest that if you have a choice between this company and ANYTHING else, take the ANYTHING else.What company doesn't look at their bottom line? If you work hard and produce then you will be fine. What company is going to pay an employee who doesn't produce?UNTRUE! You will not be fine despite any level of productivity or innovation you bring to your job. It is a slave shop mentality where no one is spared abusive treatment. I have been belittled, harrassed and iced out of my own project so I could be further maligned during the performance reviews. It's not deserved, I have a long history of succcessful employment in my role in similar size companies. This is a toxic corporate environment. I've been there 8 months and am already in therapy due to the negative treatment I have received. My exit plan is in motion.The statement about the treatment of women is spot on. I am a strong, experienced. professional woman, and this place has broken my spirit. It really IS that bad, do not fool yourself into thinking only incompetent slackers are complaining about the poor treatment experienced there. My department has had 100% tunover int the last year. It IS THAT BAD!They insist on your loyalty but give none in return. I was hired in January of 2001 for a programming position in Tampa. After 18 months and the passage of a bill in the Senate to allow 195,000 H-1B workers into the US for 2001, 2002 and 2003, I was laid off. I was told that 85% of the people who were laid off found other positions within the company. The?HR?person who sat in an office overlooking the walkway to the cafeteria would always return my calls when she knew that I had gone to lunch. Although I had an Information Systems degree and 20 years of experience, they would not hire me for a position as a?cobolprogrammer where the only thing that I needed to learn was CICS. As a result of what they pulled on me, I lost my home and everything that I had worked to have for almost 20 years. They give out an internal atta-boy award called a service star. It is a small silver star that you can pin up in your desk area. When I was laid off, I had two months earlier, finished putting into production, a?computer?program that kept my division from loosing one of its largest customers. When I returned from being laid off, my service star was on an internal correspondence envelope on my desk.As a rarity now, I started 10 years ago with?Chase?in Annuity Operations when it was?Bank?One. I thought I was in freaking heaven, hours were great, flexabilty on hours, benefits. THEN came Chase, and anyone who has been with the "C" word longer than 2 years, knows you get screwed. I watched people being overworked, no advancement possibilites and position eliminations, but I hung in because I loved what I did. That was until 2009 and they "moved" operations to Columbus, no offense Columbians, but you guys are sometimes big PITAS. But I went to Loss Mitigation as an?Analyst, same stuff happened, people overworked, no advancement, and the goals are unreachable unreasonable. For the first time in my career, I had a nervous breakdown last year, when I came back, they threw me back into the?fire, no updates on policy and proceedures, nothing. Phased my position in to Solictations, nice, more meds, more stress. Then I get moved to Negoitations, and then it gets really interesting. 8 supervisors who refused to kiss AVPs backsides get their positions eliminated, ones who are top performers. Not the nightmare who violated the all might Code of Conduct...I wasn't on anti anxiety meds before, I am now, and just was released from thehospital?after trying to eat my whole bottle. DO not work for this company, they don't care about you nor will they ever.Let me share my story with you. I started with?BankOne in Columbus, OH in 2002. I was a?clerk?in the Global Corporate Trust Group in the Polaris Center. This was a fantastic job and Bank One really made an effort to take care of their employees. In 2003, we received notice that JP Morgan?Chase?was buying our division, prior to the purchase of Bank One. My operational position was moved to Texas and I had to scramble for another position within Bank One before being laid off. Thanks, Jamie. I was able to grab a position in Commercial?Banking?working on checkingfraud. This position was excellent. Then in 2004, Chase came in and bought all of Bank One. Our positions were safe for the moment, but the atmosphere and corporate culture completely changed for the worse. Holidays were eliminated. Tuition Assistance became much harder to receive. You could not cash out vacation anymore. Quality and productivity standards became more rigid. Time off allowed was reduced and unscheduled absences would lead to quick termination, even in understandable circumstances. Chase instituted a scorecard system that ranked in three catagories: Exceeds Expectations, Meets Expectations and Needs Improvement. If you performed at your top level and did not make mistakes, you could maintain a Meets and feel comfortable with your job. One slip up, such as returning the wrong check for a client, would put you in the Needs column for the month. If you did that two months in a row, you would be termed, no matter how long you worked there or what your performance was like in the past. In 2006, our center received a visit from Mr. Jamie Dimon. He told us point blank that half our jobs would be moved overseas and to Tampa. When asked about "outsourcing", he replied, "We'll do it because it makes sense." He did not give a sh*t at all about what we thought. At that point, I found another job with a small company and resigned from Chase. Why take a chance, right?? Two years later, I was rehired to the mortgage servicing group in Columbus as a temp...Chaseworks employee. Of my training class, I was one of two who were hired on perm after 3 months. I worked six months as a?Customer Service?Agent and moved up. I subsequently moved up into Research the year after. I worked with great people in a great department and was enjoying my job. This year, I decided to take a position with?Chase?Commercial?Banking?in downtown Washington DC. I started in March and spent nearly a month and a half flying to different places around the country for training. In May, after my training, I began working on the job and managing the loan files I was assigned to. In mid June, my supervisor in NYC calls me out of the blue and says she's had some negative feedback about me from my Sales Managers (who I work with). She wouldn't be specific about it but asked if I needed help. I said no. I had this down. I knew what I was doing. A week later, she comes to my office and tells me that sales wants me to resign. She says I'm not learning the process fast enough for my sales agent.She tells me,?HR?says if I resign I can get unemployment and be eligible for rehire as there was no coaching that had been done or performance review. She said if I don't resign, they would put me on warning and I would possibly be fired. So, I resigned. Then once I tried to get employment,?Chase?HRdenied my request and told UI that I "quit". After fighting for 2 months, my claim was denied. I am now appealing that decision. To make matters worse, I find out they overpaid me on my last check and want me to send them an additional 600.00. Seriously? I'll declare bankruptcy before I give them that money. I can't even get unemployment out of them!Well, I was going to keep going, but it kept getting worse..........you are all right! This has become the worst company on the planet........when I started it was just Chase/then came the merger.......the control room literally shut off our computers at 5 before 11 so they could get out of work and not have to wait for us on a phone call but if we packed up our stuff to leave.........oh heavens......they actually installed a security camera to see who was leaving the floor before it hit 11pm.......if you are over your talk time by 15 seconds because you were trying to help someone you already have one foot out the door.......and if you are working in?collectionsand the person tells you they don't know when they can pay, well, if you don't get a date out of them, you have failed the call...........place is the pits............Verizon falling their example.......they also moniter your "toilet time" = at Chase though, a manager actually called a meeting to inform us we were only allowed to go to the bathroom on our breaks...........?tampa, fl office before they threw out all of us out the door with nothing for severence pay......they also made us work with masks on after their roof caved in , they were getting sued left and right from people who had asthma and they blocked the stair cses due to water leakage plus had garbage cans all over the place............ I agree. This complaint about the worst places to work...that's everywhere right now. The managers want to keep the money at the top for themselves. How many places have you worked that you had to bring in your own supplies!I boycott as much as I can. I don't use?creditcards. I only buy what I need. I don't patronize a lot of businesses.We need to get back to where we are controlling things. The?government?is allowing more and more people into America and it's?driving?down the wages and making it impossible to find a job.Then once I tried to get employment,?Chase?HR?denied my request and told UI that I "quit". After fighting for 2 months, my claim was denied. I am now appealing that decision. To make matters worse, I find out they overpaid me on my last check and want me to send them an additional 600.00. Seriously? I'll declare bankruptcy before I give them that money. I can't even get unemployment out of them!My heart goes out to you. These companies are killing the good Americans. I see the backstabbers always have jobs. The liars, the cheats.I worked in the Loss Mitigation modification dept at?Chase?in Rancho Bernardo - these posts are so right -the WORST place to work -it didn't used to be. When I was in originations it was great, then my job left the site and I had the "opportunity" to go to a new dept. I thought "great-I can learn underwriting" ... what a joke. They are analyzing documents and calculating income and takes forever to get the modification done - the management treats the staff like crap and could care less about your actual knowledge or skill set, they want cheaper people so they manage to target people and?fire?them or lay them off and then hire new people at a much cheaper rate.....they want to fire more than lay off so that they don't have to pay severance. Then when they fire you they dispute your unemployment so you have to jump through all the hoops to make sure you don't have to pay back any unemployment. In CA we are more protected so you have to really do something on purpose to get fired and not get unemployment. So - then they send me a letter telling me I owe them money and if I don't pay them back they'll send me to?collections?- well I'm not sending them money - and I'm in a class action lawsuit for them not paying paystub earnings or vacation pay correctly so I called and told them to research that and close the case on trying to collect from me - the specialist is supposed to call me back. I also told?HR?to tell the specialist to get the name of the?collection?agency they are using - my guess - it's internal and I could give a crap! I worked for them for over 15 yrs - I don't feel they owe me anything except to treat people with respect and decency. over 50% of the staff were on medication for stress / anxiety and then went on disability!! Should have been workman's comp!! In this economy - do not go work for Chase - they will rob you of your sanity and sense of self worth!Man this has been a long time coming. I knew there were many out there like me, just wasnt sure how many people felt the way I did. I worked for?Chase?for 3 years, starting pay was $11.00 ending pay was $11.00. AMAZING right? It was crazy for me to see people with no experience come in making WAY more than I did. Granted, I may have not been the best employee, talked alot of stuff about Chase and their policies, had all my family members close their Chase accounts. However I devoted 3 loooooooong years of my life dealing with a company who's slogan is "Chase what matters" which in fact really what they mean to say is "Chasing the people with the most money in their accounts because they matter". What happens to the elderly woman who cant pay her bills because her ssi only allows her to pay her rent? Or the mother thats calling from a store with her screaming?children?in the background all the while her card has been declined for $2? Or thecollege?student that is away from home and cant purchase?food?because their?account?is currently negative? You know what happens to those people...their accounts get closed because they are not an asset to the?bank. But what Chase does not realize is the majority of their customers are those people. So while Mr. Dimon is sitting on his ass raking in the big bucks and all his minions under him are raking in similar bucks, us hebrew slaves are clothesless and shoeless. In the words of Moses, "let my people go". Doesnt make any sense that were working for a multi million dollar company and get treated like were working in sweat shops and getting paid less than sweat shop workers. And thats not the least of my complaints, however I can sit here all day long complaining about the wonderful company called Chase.The?compensation?plan for both bankers and tellers is getting worse and worse every year, every one I know is not making as much money as used to be. It sad because?Chase?has the lowest paid salaries in the industry, and the only reason why many bankers stuck around was because the commission plan that used to be decent.My breaking point was two-fold...I don't take well to nepotism and managers who aren't particularly bright...and were never producers. The second was that a 7 year?Chase?employee moved back into our division and when I returned from a 3 day weekend he was seated by me. He was ready to cry or explode. The "new" bald manager wanted to impress his AVP and left his conscience at home. See, the man had found out from his wife that she had a re-occurrence and spreading of cancer. They were in the clear for the last five years and he was devastated. What the Chase tool did was "write him up" with an "occurrence" when he left work early Monday to be with his hysterical better half. He had just come back from talking with his tool of a manager and informed him that he was going to drive and be with his wife at the James Cancer Center at OSU...his manager voiced his disapproval and said that this was not the best way to start out on a new team or build a pipeline and he would have to write him up for another occurrence. You want to talk about quality of life? Little bitty simple minded clones think they are king sh^% if they make $100k...big deal. Make $200k a year for 15 years and don't sacrifice your morals...and treat fellow workers with professionalism and respect. I am not saying to fraternize...but be freaking human. I could not believe that he did not throw the guy out of the window. For those who have not worked for Chase...you get written up if you do not submit a "sick day" request the day BEFORE you are absent...and this applies to snow days if your kids have a two-hour school delay.If problems continue keep a written conversation log of the issue...time, date, context and people involved/present. Also print your e-mails that are damning. Keep production ledgers...and so on. Your?attorney?will thank you.Regarding STD, BWC and Unemployment Comp Chase is self-insured. They contest everything.Best of luck to everyone in 2013. :)So I turned in my two week notice today and let's just say my manager went off on me and said "I make everything about me". How does that have anything to do with my resignation ?! I am so happy I'm leaving this company and I would not recommend any to work here they do not care about their employees !! Beware people ! UPDATE: They didn't even let me finish my two weeks they made me leave today. This company treats people like animals ! So glad I'm no longer employed by?ChaseYour scenario is so true - a colleague who's brother died advised that she would be leaving to fly from the U.S. to Ireland to attend her brothers funeral. Well because her brother had passed suddenly my former colleague didn't give the requisite 24 hour notice if you are going to be sick, stuck in traffic, late to work or - your family member dies. The supervisor threatened her and she called her bluff and requested an immediate meeting with the manager and the supervisor continued to attempt to intimidate until my colleague said she would call?HR, the?labor?board etc....finally the supervisor backed down, my colleague advised the manager that she would NOT be working for that supervisor when she returned and if she was not reassigned then she would get the?attorney?involved. Well - because of numerous complaints about this supervisor, the manager granted the "request" and reassigned my colleague. This supervisor still works there - acts like a complete and total b*** and intimidates whoever will not stand up. I stood up and got written up! That is the way they try to silence you. Yes - print your emails, your attorney will be thankful - especially when they start to target you and one or more of the emails are direct complaints to the site manager for unequal treatment and discrimination. Hard work is not rewarded at?Chase, ass kissing and keeping your mouth shut against all the wrong doing is what they want. They do not give decent raises and change the incentive program every time people start reaching goals too often.So very, very true. I left because I was sick for three weeks and when I came back I was actually pulled into an office by three managers and was picked apart and humiliated (after i had reported being bullied by a few coworkers). I was told by the head?director?I would be "written up if I caused them any more occurrences or trouble." They actually tried to say it was my fault. I had a perfect record, was never written up for anything, ever, and had been with the company for over five years. I finally walked out after being treated like this. I love the job I have now. They just were not worth it for me stay there. I knew God desired for me to be treated MUCH better than this! Amen!JPMorgan Chase?is unfiar to the ABM's in the company. The position is being eliminated and if you were making any kind of pay and had been there any length of time..then they are finding reasons to let you go.?I was terminated July 21 for not enough documentation on the tellers. I used all the correct forms that is approved by the company but my manger at Frankford & Midway in Dallas Texas wanted me to use a NOTE sheet.?After 16 years and NO problems before then in November 2013, I get a new manager and then I started getting wrote up for each review. End of year , first quarter, did not even make it to mid year.?Who else is in this boat and what can we do?????Happy to be gone, but hey that severance package would be nice...?UnfairManagement leave a lot to be desired. There is an epidemic of abusive behavior, threats and rude comments in project meetings and conference calls. They seem to reward people for cusing and yelling at others. They would hire undesirable contrators, roll them over as employees and even make them managers to get rid of good people with seniority who have built the company to what is it today.?SHAMEFUL! VERY UNFAIR!Being unemployed is awful. I couldn't imagine how awful it would be to be unemployed for 10 years. If you are still in California, I would get the heck out ASAP. I have heard the job situation there is awful. One of my friends lives there so that is what she told me.?Another possibility is to find a mission in your town. These are usually supported by churches in the area. They will help you with shelter and finding a place to stay. Not to mention, offer you some support. I would also check out your local workforce development center to see if there are any programs you may qualify for.?You could also look into free?CDL training?to learn?truck driving. I hear the oil fields in North Dakota are hiring people with CDLs like crazy and offering good money. At least the education to be a truck driver isn't too long. There might be some truck driving schools that offer financial aid, but I can't say for sure.I applaud you for being willing to move to a new place. The unemploymentrate in many places is astonishing and in our area people with?decades?of experienceare being laid off.?I wanted to write and wish you well. Some church groups have job trainingprograms. STEP UP in Raleigh NC offers job training, clothes forinterviews,?mentorship?for budgeting and actual community who offer jobs.Many graduates are formerly?homeless?or incarcerated. I've seen firsthandwhat a little assistance can make to people wanting to start over.I hope you find you place and know lots of kind thoughts and prayersare here on your behalf?Hi there, here's my 2 cents:Don't go back to college! At this point, it's a waste of time and money. If you are debt free, you don't want to pile on debt that you will be paying back for years to come further putting you in a deeper hole, do you? You've already shown that school isn't your thing, so why would it be your thing now???I agree with whoever has said that moving out of L.A. would be the best thing. I lived down in San Diego the last 3 years, was stuck there physically & mentally. For most of that time, I was unemployed too. It's demoralizing being there and looking for work but nobody calls you back. And the mentality I started to get was, if I can't afford to live there AND work a minimum wage job, why bother even looking at those? And due to a brain injury I can't physically work 2 or 3 jobs, like some people! So I became depressed about the whole situation and once that sinks in, employers can smell the depression and the desperation on you, they can see it in the slump of your shoulders or hear it in the tone of your voice.?Contact this friend in Texas and get out of there ASAP! I moved to Oregon and it has done wonders for my outlook on life.This guy doesn't need a degree. He's smart enough to learn things on his own like computer programming. He just needs to get out of Dodge. Many people make a middle class living without a degree. I am make over $80k in the corporate world with no associate's degree or higher level degree from college. I am not some aberration. There are millions of people without a degree and are employed full time.agree. I have 3 degrees and I am unemployed, go figure. Getting a college degree is not ALWAYS the answer to solving unemployment. There are many people (especially in the government) who do not have a college degree and have good jobs making decent money. I swear, it mostly depends on "luck." If a door opens up and you are at the right place at the right time, your situation can change overnight.?You are correct, the OP just needs to get of Dodge, if he/she can afford it and some good luck comes his/her way. Sometimes, the universe gives you "signs" that it wants you to make a change. Being unemployed for 10 years living in the same area is a pretty big?sign in?my opinion.?However, just getting up and getting out of Dodge, is scary in itself, but sometimes you just have to make it happen. Hopefully the OP gets some good luck soon, getting some good luck really does help in life.Jobs that pay minimum wage like fast food, retail, grocery store, gas station, janitorial, etc. are the hardest jobs to get. For one thing, these jobs require no real skills or qualifications, except maybe 2 weeks of training or orientation. The hiring process for these jobs is usually worse then career jobs: A long 2 hour online application, with a complex personality test tacked on the end. You have to answer strongly agree or strongly disagree for the answers and not seem crazy,?shy?or depressed. If you do it wrong your application will get deleted. 9/10 times you will never hear from anyone asking if you can come in for interview, let alone get an acknowledgement for applying. It's like you never applied at all. Some places want you to have an extensive resume. Without knowing someone your chances of getting in are even less. It wasn't always this way. They've went from being the easiest to get to being the hardest to get. Ever. Lots of people think because it's low paying that the job is easy to get. But that's not true.The hiring process for most jobs has become nothing but dog eat dog, especially these survival jobs.??02-09-2013, 12:01 PMmove4ward?3,108 posts, read?3,094,408?timesReputation: 3282Quote:Originally Posted by?hellothisismyname?difficult to do these days when you are in your 30's with no work experience in that field. Not impossible, but very difficult. Just out of curiosity, what line of work are you in? pretty impressive that you've managed to work in a corporate setting without any degrees. I can see it happening in small businesses or as an entrepreneur, but in corporate? I do think that is an aberration. Good for you!?But whatever, this stuff is off-topic to the OP as he can't afford it.?To the OP, do you have any friends who moved to other cities? if you do, get in contact with them as well and see what the situation is like where they are.I'm over 35. I started at the bottom as a shipping clerk at a corporate office. I used Excel and Access in reporting to keep track of all the files. In 2007, company went out of business and laid everybody off. From there, I went to reporting job and dropped the shipping part. It's like making TPS reports in the movie Office Space. I got laid off again, last year, when the company was sold. I got another reporting job. With each layoff, I got better job offers because of experience.Many clerical jobs will have Excel. It's fairly common program at most companies. Most of my family has no degree. They all have jobs.There are millions of full time employed people with no degree.10 year unemployment is an aberration for high school graduates and dropouts. I come across far more employed high school grads and college dropouts in every day life than unemployed.I agree. I have 3 degrees and I am unemployed, go figure. Getting a college degree is not ALWAYS the answer to solving unemployment. There are many people (especially in the government) who do not have a college degree and have good jobs making decent money. I swear, it mostly depends on "luck." If a door opens up and you are at the right place at the right time, your situation can change overnight.?.Exactly. College degrees are pretty much worthless these days unless you can pick something you really like to do an want to stick with. Employers could care less about a degree anymore. I have a teaching degree and was unemployed for quite some time because I was competing with 900 people for one job. I worked with a lady who makes $9.00 an hour and she has 3 degrees.?One of my mom's CNAs has a degree in business. Another guy I worked with has a degree from?NYU?and works at Walmart.?It is all about experience and skills these days and not so much the degree. If the OP decides to go to college, community college or learning a trade like CDL is his/her best bet.?Another idea is union apprenticeships for things like?welding?and plumbing you might want to look into OP.I hope you will write a book about being the "Comeback Kid" in?ten years. I will buy it and ask you to autograph it! - I fear what we are in will be a multi-generational recession. Lots of people down the road will be helped by reading your story, and how you overcame your circumstances. The next generation, for example, will never have had the memory good times. We desperately need role models and instructions for them.college degrees are not worthless, just over-saturated. Your teaching degree put you in the running for that teaching job. Just because 900 other people had the same degree does not make yours worthless. I don't have a teaching degree, which automatically puts me out of the running for your job, even if I had 10+ years of private teaching experience to kids from my neighborhood.?your degree is necessary to get a job in your field. so saying it is worthless is a mistake.?also being a CNA requires a certification...not a full degree per say, but still a piece of paper saying that you are certified as a CNA. You cannot get a CNA job without this paper, so once again, it isn't worthless.?I am Part-time employed, do not give up hope, I too am looking for a good job, even if it is a suplimental job to supliment my income, Yes I have a College Degree in Marketing, Yes I have experience under my belt, however I am an?Administrative Assistant?working on less than $9.00 an hour before taxes are taken out and less than 30 hours a week, there are not a lot of decent jobs in Akron, OH or anywhere in the US for that matter, I am in my fortys and have never been on wealfare, until this year and unfortunately I had to,?but do not give up hope. I have sent out over 50 resumes last month alone, I have looked and applied daily in the online job boards such as Indeed, Snagajob, Monster, you name it, I have applied at the Temp agencies such as Manpower, Kelly, Superior, In 2006 I got Lucky and worked at?Penske?thru the temp agency, It lasted a year, (My Job as well as everyones was transfered to India, I trained my replacement.Please do not give up, I will notNot really...he'll have a degree, and then he'll be stuck with student loans working at McDonalds because then after all that college work he won't have the "2+ experience" REQUIRED!That is a bunch of BS......because there are a LOT of fields where people can study on their own, and end up knowing MORE than those with degrees, and can be ten times more successful because learning on your own takes patience, skill, and perseverance, none of which are required by any school! nobody grades you, so you don't study for a test, you study for YOURSELF when you study on your own. It takes DISCIPLINE to do this! No college asks for that part!What is the problem with wanting to work for a corporation? I think ONLY the ungrateful oppose that.People like us without corporate jobs would love one just because we actually WANT TO WORK!HR's really don't know where to find?quality?candidates these days. Which is?sad?because they end up hiring people who would rather sit at the beach doing nothing, and those who WANT to work remain unemployed! Kind of ironic & pathetic.Quote:Originally Posted by?hellothisismyname?It doesn't matter if your auto-didactic.?you need a college degreeget a student loan from the government. Yes, it will put you in debt, but you will be able to work towards a bright future.Telling a frequently unemployed guy who once was homeless to go to a 4 year college and rack up student loan debt is kinda stupid, and he has no family support either. There are many people on?We Are the 99 Percent?who?racked?up troublesome student loan debt for a degree and now they suffer so much. College does not guarantee you a job. My HS buddies who never went to college have a home and kids but I don't, and I went to a top notch college for a BSME.Intelligence doesn't guarantee employment, at least not in this market. One must be able to bs their way through a job interview in order to get hired. Despite doing all that I can to prove to you that I probably work far harder than most employees you have ever worked with, you still feel that I am a lazy bum, simply due to a nearly blank resume, and *this* is where the problem lies. What you have shown is that even if I have a well-written cover letter and demonstrable proof of my capabilities, I will ultimately be judged on a resume that does nothing to honestly show my capabilities and does nothing at all to display my personality. The simple fact is that once a year goes by, the chances of finding employment drops, then after two years, the chances decrease more, and as we get along to a decade, the chance drops to damn near zero. I had zero control over this happening. If someone wants to give me a pass based on my resume -- based on a resume that was written by others who are more well-versed in this stuff -- then there is really nothing I can do.?Despite the evidence that I have shown to you, you still believe that you are such an amazing judge of character that there is no way that your initial impression of me could be inaccurate. You have seen that I am literate, you have read my measured responses, and you have seen the patience I have had with you, but you still insist that I am mentally ill, lazy, uneducated, or whatever definition of derelict you have designed in your brain. If you fail so miserably at adjusting your opinion in the face of evidence, what hope do I really have when I offer a well thought-out, company-focuses cover letter (that probably isn't even read) and a nearly blank resume??I'm in a similar boat. I'm employed full-time, but it's a meaningless, dead-end job. I've been looking for other work for around 3 years now, and despite having a Masters I just can't find myself with any employable skills. At last I have a job, so that's good I guess, but I just can't see a way to better my life (make more money or be more content in a better job) and I'm about to give up.Good post. You can't make up a story like that. I'm not being facetious because I can relate. I have been out of full-time work for almost three years and I am turning 30 next month. Graduating from college in 2009 actually has hurt my employment prospects much more than helping them. I graduated with a degree in graphic and design and had several paid internships. However, in this post December 2007 world, small businesses who hire graphic designers and web developers much rather hire a laid-off seasoned veteran with years of professional experience as opposed to someone like me. Regular gigs at McDonald's, Safeway etc. and the same type of low-paid warehouse gigs I used to work in my 20's now label me as "overqualified" because of my college degree. The sad fact is that people in my generation are learning we are not as special as mommy and daddy told us growing up. There are way too many people and too few jobs nowadays.A lot of life is luck. Pure and simple. I know some buddies I went to high school with who make near six figures without college degrees working as paper pushers for big companies like Verizon because they got their jobs when jobs were plentiful and easy to get right before the economic downturn hit in 2006 or 2007. I live in the DC Area. The backbone of affluence in this area is federal government jobs. Many of the federal workers out here are just as lazy and entitled as you would think.God did not create you to fail. Struggle builds character. In some ways, I'm glad I wasn't a?spoiled brat?born into generic suburbia groomed to do good in high school, go to college, graduate in four years flat and get a six figure low-stress job immediately after college at age 22 like so many little Rebeccas and Johnnies out there. No, I was born in a crime-ridden ghetto neighborhood, dealt with racial?discrimination?my whole life, barely survived my childhood, teen years and early adulthood, dealt with serious substance abuse issues and was rejected from thousands of jobs despite being well-qualified and educated. One day, I will have that dream job and that dream wife living in a city where I want to live. But it takes a lot of hard work and no one is going to tell you what to pursue as an adult. Only you can figure that out. You'll figure it out soon enoughResults are what matters out there. When one doesn't get results, then hard questions have to be asked of one's self.There are 2 types of poverty. One of which is imposed by government through it's statist policies that kill?prosperity?and the other is from your own misfortune, mistakes or ernment has screwed up the economy which has made it tough on everyone, especially employers. As a result, a lot of people ended up in the 2nd scenario. Personally I believe we are in a depression, just that it's been papered over with by a compliant media and keynesian spending.?However there is always work to be had somewhere. One might have to move to find it or do things they never expected, but it's out there.Most of the hiring process is now a dog eat dog crap shoot. I'm a firm believer that the main issue is the whole hiring process itself, not the person seeking the job. Most of it is done online, and you have to take a lengthy unicru test that can potentially filter you out of the consideration line. Not hired, but to be considered. Did I mention most managers will NEVER call people for interviews? Add that to the fact that there are so many applications, now the manager can be selective on who gets the stocker job or drive thru order taker. But they usually hire their friends. It's a crap shoot. And you expect decent people to get hired for these jobs?I see people get hired with no effort and I see people like myself and OP who put lots of effort and got nothing out of it. I'm not picky about jobs, I don't care if it's a mcdonald's crew member. My problem is trying to get around all the BS in today's society.Just because it's a job that requires no skills doesn't mean it's easy to get. That's a right wing myth. In fact, it's quite the opposite. These are the most hardest jobs to get because thousands of people apply. There are only 2 ways to get hired. Knowing somebody, or being EXTREMELY lucky and being the one the manager calls for an interview.?Alot?of people are stuck in the past when you could just walk in and get a job.Not your fault - the inevitable consequences of globalisation, neo-liberalism, human greed. Your labor value is too high compared with those who you now compete with (yes, 200 years of fighting for a basic living in an advanced society has/is being systematically destroyed in a matter of a few decades). Manufacturing sector is dead - sold out to China, India, Bangladesh based on cheap labor costs. Ironically, the very people who demand high profits from American companies (stock holders) allow CEO's to go ahead with these decisions that ultimately lead to the loss of employment opportunities in their own country, leading to recession, depression, debt, inflation,?devaluation?of the greenback - worthless profits!!. Never forget that the economy exists to serve you - not the other way around as most HR (often outsourced also in the pursuit of higher profits for the few) would have you believe. Study your constitution and ask yourself, does your nation hold up to its own rhetoric. Educate yourself and push for fundamental change to the very notion of 'democracy'. You have already suffered enough...don't let this happen to the next generation.After reading several posts regarding higher education it compelled me to respond. I have basically been unemployed for almost 3 years. I write that with a caveat, a few things here and there but never resulted in continuous employment. I have graduated from college 4 times, yes 4 times. My GPA was 3.0, 3.0, 4.0 and 4.0 and the 4.0 GPAs were in two separate graduate degree programs. I have a Liberal Arts degree with a minor in Math which wasn't really ever going to get me far, but then I graduated from Nursing School, then a Graduate Degree in Organizational Management and then a MBA. It is unfathomable to me how much I have chased the elusive?American Dream?to stay on this road to nowhere. I did what people told me to do, "Educate yourself!";"Don't worry about the debt, a good job will return the investment many times over your lifetime!", "You're such a bright woman, you are going places!" Ha! I am now more than $100K in debt and the government doesn't care one?iota?about whether I have a job, or live up to their false advertising of accomplishment and achievement through a degree-they just want their money.?I left nursing to complete a graduate degree so I could help not only be a role model to my son as a single parent, but to financially be more viable to him as he grew. Now, after 1o years out of nursing, no one in the healthcare arena will hire me stating, "You've been away for too long."; "We can hire new grads cheaper"; "You don't know what nursing is even like anymore". The 10 years I spent away from nursing was working primarily as a?consultant?to the cut throat side of corporate America teaching them how to save $$$ by becoming more efficient in the ways of cost, quality, safety, delivery, and morale. In return, I spent several uncomfortable moments being suppressed by the "Good Ol' Boy Club", not being taken seriously (I am a 5'6", petite blonde), or worse-in sexual harassment situations that happen more than we will ever acknowledge (because we made laws about that in the 80's-therefore it doesn't happen anymore).So, now, when I actually apply and get interviewed for full-time employment, I repeatedly hear, "You're over-qualified!" So that ladies and?gentleman?is the kick in the teeth. Here's one: a large layoff where everyone gets a letter telling them their position is not needed. A month later temps are being hired to fill those positions. Does the company has alegal?obligation to offer the positions to those who were laid off? Is there preferential rehire for laid-off employees?Yes, it depends on if they can hire someone else for less pay while they keep the upper mgmt levels or need to give them their bonuses. They rehire for less, will change the job title slightly to get someone in at a much lower rate. Lay-offs were designed to eliminate people who have rightly worked there way to a decent salary just to get replaced by some younger less experienced lower paid individual and it is the countrys way of allowing companies to screw the ones who helped them get where they are todayOutsourcing is bringing people into a company, they most likely are the hardest working people, making the least amount of pay, getting little or no benefits from the company that they work for who placed them there. That means the companies your are placed at with the really great perks.IBM,?Lockheed Martin, the State &?Federal?Govt, Xerox,Boeing, most major corporations are now outsourcing. Trying to eliminate the overhead by filling positions with companies that will place their people in them. Most companies that do the outsourcing don't allow you to participate in any of their functions as you are an 'outsider' -- some treat you as if you have the plague some don't. Employees wear one color badge, the outsourced individuals have another and are also notated in their email address with a {C}. It's corporate discrimination at its best and this world wonders why everyone doesn't get along --More specifically, outsourcing generally means usingcontract?workers, most notably?hiring?contract people overseas. Contract/temp workers do not COUNT as staff or come out of the staffing budget, so a manager can look like they are reducing staff (making the stock go up) when they're just moving the jobs overseas.Some countries, unlike the US, put a limit on their companies on how many contract workers they can hire to keep them from just hiring all contract or part-time employees and not having to pay benefits.That's my point though -- you are just stating that you have the number of years maybe a few more than what they are asking. They can't prove you are lying if you weren't truly experienced in say, the first 10 years, right -- since they considered you a novice - fresh new kid. These companies are lying all the time about complying with the EEO and WE know they aren't?hiring?due to age. Do you think that they would hunt to find out if you had MORE experience then you were stating. Afterall, they are expecting us to constantly change careers and learn new things -- so in actuality stating less is more accurate than stating more. I've just been wondering what we HAVE to due to prevent them from saying it's because we are over 40. Besides that, if these young hiring folk are so smart, then why are they afraid to hire us -- we're old, don't work as fast or think as fast [in their eyes] so what makes them so afraid? Most rules for apps are 10 years back & yet they think we don't know that when they are writing down what we say is them actually totalling the years because they can't add it up in their heads - since they are so use to using calculators and can't figure it out any other way? Not getting?credit?does suk but somehow, someway, we have to outsmart them. I look younger than what I am -- but it is very hard to play dumb.DLP: YES, it is harder these days. I've got a stack of applications for jobs that I applied for and it is very discouraging yet I keep on going on. I have my bad days and my days where I don't want to wake up but I keep writing the News here in this area hoping someone just might take it seriously and investigate. However, when you got the President of the United States not adhering to the?law?[the subpoenas] it makes me feel at least in my area that the people of this country are less important news-wise. And Paris Hilton is much more important than the 10's of thousands people over 40 who CAN't get a job because people without money are less important in this country. The country is creating a new form of segregation amongst it's people and it has nothing to do with race -- it is now the age factor. The employees vs. the temp or contractor -- the political assistants within our govt. agencies vs. the employees and the contractors and temps. BUT funny thing about life -- everyone gets a dose of it at one point in time in their life as everything comes full circle AND those who are shunning us will be shunned and I think that they will be less apt to handle it.his forum is a funny one -- I am the Jobless Female from MO, VA, and nowhere. I wonder where this posting is going to say I am from this time.DLP: I am like a sponge who absorbs it all in & then thinks about it as logically as I can. I am one who feels what others are feeling yet they are afraid to speak of what they feel. I am one who is not afraid of the repercussions as the truth will always remain the most dangerous weapon out here. I speak only the truth of what my experiences have been and what I have witnessed. The news saves time for PARIS HILTON -- who cares about this lost soul -- what about the ones who have aided in her family becoming that rich? And then to have the nerve to say she was unjustly treated for her actions? WE ARE the ones who are being unjustly treated because of the number of years in age. The govt. can take everything away from us, yet they don't have to follow thelaw? These people are not GODs of this world, they are the ones destroying US. We don't have the right to ignore subpoena's or we get jail time or heavily fined and warrants for our arrests are put out there. The President took an oath to uphold the laws of this country yet defies them once they are imposed upon him and his cabinet. This is unjust and they make a mockery out of the Constitution. We are stripped of our rights, yet they get more. They keep taking more & more from US while their pockets are ripping at the seams. We the people are fools if we allow this to continue BUT then again from a?legal?standpoint - what can we really do without being jailed for standing up for our own country? No wonder there are so many Presidential candidates this year -- they all want to get away with all they can............ I'm going to vote for myself.Right now is the time where we the people have to start revolting against employers. They have the ball in their?court?and they are the last ones down the trail who will have to fix the unemployment rate. Instead, they have decided to beef up the hiring process, and deny millions of people from all walks of life a shot at a job. Even menial ones. Their goal is to create a new normal, all the while at the cost of bringing down society.agreed, although people do not answer it specifically, it seems as if you need a college-degree for just a minimum-wage, part-time job in retail, fast-food, customer-service, flipping burgers, bagging groceries, gathering shopping-carts,?stocking?merchandiseUnless the posting specifically requires a degree, I am going to start experimenting with leaving mine off and see what happens.I agree that the employer will probably think-twice and assume that the college grad will quickly dump them for something better.I have had mostly negative experiences with staffing /employment agencies throughout the years. Probably my biggest gripe is with the 22 year old "recruiters" and 23 year old "supervisors" who give you the same boring speach about their companies policies and have you complete the same long, boring test that you have completed seven times before with other staffing agencies. They go on and on about how their approach is different and unique from the other staffing companies and that job orders are coming in left and right. (yeah right!) That is why I never seem to hear back from them, even with a great looking resume.?They call you in for a job order, stating that you would be a "perfect fit" for a particular position only to later tell you to your face that either the "job is filled" or that you "do not meet all of the qualifications" to perform the job. When and if you do hear back from the "recruiter" they insist on sending your resume to a "cold calling" center, stating that this job would be a perfect fit for your background, when the position has nothing to do with your experience or career goals.?I also feel bad for the companies and employers that use these agencies as well. Oftentime, they will stick anybody with a pulse into a position, even if their background is in question. The recruiter does not care since he will probably quit his "prestigous" job in two-weeks time anyway.What has been your experience in regards to utilizing these staffing companies?They're a total waste of time, and there has been many others threads about them on here.I don't like them either I felt like cattle.Waste of time unless your experience is SUPER generic....They are a 98% complete waste of time.A lot of them are wastes of time, but there are a few good ones out there. My husband was just hired full-time after a three month?probationary period?as a temp.A million years ago, I got my first full-time job as a temp. A month or two later, my grandmother decided retirement sucked so asked me how I got my job. I referred her to the agency, got $100, and she was hired full-time after a two month probationary temp period. She worked that job for 10 years until her health started failing and the place she was working at was taken over by a jerk company.They offered low pay in 2012 which is why I didn't deal with themIn the 90s they were ok. You really had to weed the bad from the good and you end up wasting a lot of time and money. I think they engage in age bias. They prefer young and pretty women. I wouldn't touch them with an 8 ft pole, nowadays. I despise them the way they do business now.I am not a young and pretty woman, but an over 35 yr old guy. *smile*?At the start of the recession, the one agency placed me in a position for $25k more than the previous job. Recently, another agency(top?staffing agency?that's public traded) just stunk and offered $12.5k less. They called back multiple times to convince me it was a great opportunity. LOLI think staffing agencies are a waste of time if you know exactly what type of work you are seeking. You apply directly to the companies you have in mind online and it usually works out OK but can depend on your industry and your locality.?Nowadays with the Internet and so on, applicants can often circumvent staffing agencies and recruiters. If your industry uses staffing agencies a lot, you may not have a lot of choice.I personally believe there are many factors to consider on whether or not they are a waste of time. If you are young or inexperienced, signing up for?temp work?can help you in some ways. On the other hand, getting a job through a staffing agency can help you get your foot in the door and make a big impression on a company who otherwise would never see you in person. There are just different ways to look at the situation.?Staffing agencies have many pros and cons for each job seeker. Overall, I had good experience with staffing agencies, but that was years ago in a different time and economic climate.They vary a lot. Sometimes one has a job order nobody else does and sometimes they all do. And some can get you in at a higher rate than the other, which I do not figure.Temping used to be cool at one time, but not so much anymore.If you get work with them fine, but depending on what city you live in, THERE IS NO WORK. I find this to be true for Los Angeles.The problem with working through an agency is that you never know if the job(s) you're interested in even exist. Lots of agencies post fake jobs to lure people in to up their "employee headcount." Once you're there and have filled out all the paperwork and taken all the tests, you're told that the job you had inquired about originally either has been withdrawn or filled by the company. The agencies will post the same jobs day after day, week after week, but those jobs do not exist.Temp agencies aren't like they used to be 20 - 25 years ago. Two of the best jobs on my resume were the?result?of being placed there as a temp. That's the way it was then. There were no 2 or 3 pre-placement interviews to work a temp job. You were assigned there and you showed up. Folks who are out of work generally don't have the luxury to be able to wait through 2 or 3 interviews to find out if they got the job or not. I registered with one agency right after I lost my job in?September?2012, and not only did I never hear back from them, the recruiter wouldn't return any of my calls or emails.Agencies are a scheming racket. They play way too many games in these times we live in. Do your research, make your own client list and offer your services as a temp without the client fee. Don't know what else to say.Yep, cut out the middle man!That's all staffing agencies are, blood-sucking intermediaries. All they've ever done is waste my time and harass my references trying to get them to buy their "services."?I've never gotten a job through a staffing agency, and I won't ever use one again in the future unless I'm desperate.Originally Posted by?KABurke?The problem with working through an agency is that you never know if the job(s) you're interested in even exist. Lots of agencies post fake jobs to lure people in to up their "employee headcount." Once you're there and have filled out all the paperwork and taken all the tests, you're told that the job you had inquired about originally either has been withdrawn or filled by the company. The agencies will post the same jobs day after day, week after week, but those jobs do not exist.Temp agencies aren't like they used to be 20 - 25 years ago. Two of the best jobs on my resume were the result of being placed there as a temp. That's the way it was then. There were no 2 or 3 pre-placement interviews to work a temp job. You were assigned there and you showed up. Folks who are out of work generally don't have the luxury to be able to wait through 2 or 3 interviews to find out if they got the job or not. I registered with one agency right after I lost my job in September 2012, and not only did I never hear back from them, the recruiter wouldn't return any of my calls or emails.Your post is so true and has been my experience. Back in the mid 90's as a young 20 something it was easy with my legal skills to go to a placement or?temp agency?one day and be sitting at a desk in a law office or corporate office the next day. Like you, two of my best jobs on my resume were placements that went permanent. When I moved to my current city back in 2003 I started getting jaded with agencies mostly because of all the jobs they had in the paper which never amounted to anything. They'd call me in, I'd have to go through two hours of testing and talking up of the agency (while asking if I had any other friends who were looking for work). I did get my long term job through a legal temp agency. Actually I should say I got a temp job through that agency and through word of mouth from inside the law firm, I was offered a full time job.Now the last two years with the economy, I've seen how agencies don't care where they place you, or what atmosphere they place you in. Now they guilt you if you say you don't fit well with the company (I was sent to a company 50 miles away for a temporary interview, and when I told the recruiter that I was leery about making that drive 5 days a week in a 12 year old jeep she told me to 'suck it up and stop complaining.' Well I did need the job, and I ended up taking it but that was the worst experience that lasted 3 months because she wouldn't place me anywhere else (and the experience wasn't my driving it was actually the management at the firm)). I would have been better just telling her to stuff it and not take the assignment.You can't think of agencies as your end all be all. They have to be just one avenue for jobs, and in my opinion, the lowest avenue. I get calls all the time now that I'm at a full time job, from agencies all over the state for jobs I don't even qualify for, but for some reason they still like to waste a phone call to talk to my answering machine.Temp agencies should be the?LAST RESORT?and only used in case of a dire?$$$?emergency, which is exactly why I am working a temp job right now through an agency. I registered with the agency on 9/28/12 and they placed me on 11/28/12. While I found that completely laughable that it took them two months to place me in a semi-long-term temp job, all the while they continued to post jobs that I would have REALLY like to have been considered for. Which solidifies the "fake jobs" theory. When this job ends, I'll be out of work again unless one of the MANY resumes that I've sent out over the past 3 months gets a hit.Originally Posted by?wrcousert?I got a few long term assignments from Volt. I even won their employee of the month contest. This was about ten years ago, so I'm not sure what they're like today.Lousy, like the rest of them.Originally Posted by?KABurke?Temp agencies should be the?LAST RESORT?and only used in case of a dire?$$$?emergency, which is exactly why I am working a temp job right now through an agency. I registered with the agency on 9/28/12 and they placed me on 11/28/12. While I found that completely laughable that it took them two months to place me in a semi-long-term temp job, all the while they continued to post jobs that I would have REALLY like to have been considered for. Which solidifies the "fake jobs" theory. When this job ends, I'll be out of work again unless one of the MANY resumes that I've sent out over the past 3 months gets a hit.I agree, they should only be used if UC benefits run out.Its not all the recruiters fault. The problem starts with employers. They prefer others to do the job once their HR departments performed. Companies cut back on HR personnel and outsource everything. In the old days, a company used one or two headhunters exclusively. 10 years ago, they decided to open their?job search?to all recruiters causing a wild competition. Its not uncommon to get calls from 5 recruiters who will refer you to the same job. Then, you may run into the problem of who referred you first. You can be left without interview.?Many recruiting companies were born during the years of plenty when unqualified and unprofessional people decided to get a cut of the pie, basically ruining the business for everyone, including job seekers. Some recruiters perfected the search (and saved money) by keeping their recruiting personnel in India. You get a phone call and have no idea the person?on the other side?talks from India (but pretends to be calling from CA).?Bottom line: its a wild world.They're a waste of time IMO because most of the jobs they are for as super generic low paying work. If you have any kind of common sense or background?you're out?of luck.Good luck trying to sort out who's at fault when you are treated like crap; the agencies, the?individual?recruiters or the client company itself. Who cares? They're all in on it one way or panies that resort to temps have some kind of a problem.?Stay?clear of businesses who can't find, retain or choose to hire permanent people. Look, everyone knows that all jobs regardless of what you call them, are really temporary. You have this 3 or 4 month?probationary period?and can be let go during that time, or even anytime after due to the?employment at will?concept. So nothing is really "permanent" anyway. Let's admit to the reality. So any company who over uses temps and plays games is for me, at least, at the bottom of the barrel. The bottom of the food chain.There was a time when temp agencies were great. I got short term jobs with no experience and learned quite a bit on my feet. Eventually got placed in a "real" job. That was?Clinton?era, when the US was living high on the hog. Those days are long gone! Now that we're in the dismal Obama era, job opportunities are scarce. I am totally ignored even for jobs that I am grossly overqualified for.Nowadays, potential employees have no value. Companies want everything up front before you're even considered for a job: SS#, references, etc. Pretty soon they'll require a live 24 hour?webcam?feed. And maybe if they like what they see they will take a gander at your resume.?Its a?sad, sad world. Thanks Obama.Originally Posted by?ChIoe?Nowadays, potential employees have no value. Companies want everything up front before you're even considered for a job: SS#, references, etc. Pretty soon they'll require a live 24 hour webcam feed. And maybe if they like what they see they will take a gander at your resume.I dealt with a?temp agency?when I was unemployed a few years ago. When I came in, the first thing I encountered was this short, fat blob who shoved a clipboard in my face and told me to fill out a bunch of paperwork. She didn't even say "hi." It was just "fill this out."?I told her that I wanted to speak about the position before I gave them contact information for all of my references, and she said with a smirk on her face "this is how we do things around here." I glanced across the room and there were about five people taking tests on computers, and they looked like street people wearing old t-shirts and jeans. None of them were dressed like you would for a job interview.I just turned around and left. It was a very unprofessional environment to say the least. I feel that overall, temp agencies are a waste of time. At least, they're not what they used to be. Several years ago, I worked for Monarch Staffing in Springfield, PA. They were a fabulous company to work for and kept me steadily employed at various assignments until I got a permanent job elsewhere. Five years ago, I finally made the plunge and finished my education, graduating with a BA,?Summa?*** Laude, no less! Right away, I contacted Monarch and asked if they could place me again. All I got was a runaround and no help. Things have obviously changed there, and not for the better.My experiences with three other temp agencies were also not fruitful. It seems to me that temp agencies only want the welfare hires so that they can receive the tax deduction. Smart, college-educated people like me don't bring them as much profit, since we're not coming off the welfare line. Also, someone like me has the potential to run the agency recruiters out of their jobs. Just as in high school, everyone's afraid of the smart people!Long story short: avoid temp agencies at all costs. You're better off applying outright for a "real" job, and your chances of obtaining steady employment are much better.Staffing agencies are like crack houses - go in, get some "verbal crack," but once you are done, you are left hanging! Strung out and hoping to get a "hit"/they will call and place you on a long-term or temp-to-perm assignment, but they rarely, if ever, do.I was lucky to have?found a job?through one?temp agency?last year, but I found a better, permanent job a couple of months later and quit the temp gig.?My husband, on the other hand, has not been as lucky. He did get hired through the same agency last year, but he was laid off after 6 months on that job. He found another permanent job, but then that job didn't work out, either. He has been signed up with so many temp agencies who have failed getting him a real job, it's ridiculous. The former temp agency who hired him last year wanted to send him out to a job that was 30 miles away for $14 an hour, and he turned it down and never heard from the agency again. He has called the recruiter and left messages, but the recruiter will NOT return his call.?It has been the same song and dance with these b.s. agencies - apply for a job thru their site and get called in and told you're a good fit, come in and do their stupid skills tests, then out the door never to hear from those bozos again. He is still unemployed and looking for work, and being careful to stay away from agencies, which is my advice to anyone seeking a job. A couple of weeks ago, he went on an interview for an employer through one of the many agencies he is signed up to. We believed the employer would hire him right away, since the company had his resume and knew of his skills and experience through the agency. Wrong! He was told they would "make a decision in a week..that was last week, and he's heard NOTHING from the agency or the employer! He called the recruiter and left a message, but she won't call him back! WTF?!Years ago, it was not this way. You could go to a staffing agency and get hired that same or next day and usually, the job would end up being permanent. Staffing agencies are such JOKES these days! Better to go through an employer or HR department directly!I hate them too. They motivate actual businesses (businesses?producing?a real product rather than labor-for-hire) to begin relying on a?shadow?workforce?of expendable contractors. I'm stuck in a staffing role and I can't tell you how jealous I am of people who get to be "real employees" of the "client company."temping is class system. you can work for years and never move to perm. with an?army?of temps out there much cheaper to hire and much easier to fire--- why would employers give up that power.???temping is the employer offset to his loss of power thru?EEOC?law.its sort of like current divorce law. systems that empower are rarely given up?without a fight?by those who benefit.WASTE OF TIME. Have tried 3 different ones. One brought me in for a different job for less $$ further away. One was referred by a friend. Went in for interview. NEVER heard from them again! I don't get their angle & not sure how they make $$.Lots of agencies send people to temp assignments and are not completely honest about the?duties?because they are trying to fill slots.Originally Posted by?Am I Not Worthy?WASTE OF TIME. Have tried 3 different ones. One brought me in for a different job for less $$ further away. One was referred by a friend. Went in for interview. NEVER heard from them again! I don't get their angle & not sure how they make $$.Quote:Originally Posted by?FBJ?Lots of agencies send people to temp assignments and are not completely honest about the duties because they are trying to fill slots.Had this experience X9. That's how many temp agencies I have interview with. One or two said they would email me further paperwork and follow up, and they never did. NONE Of them delivered on the supposed "job" that I applied for that they brought me in to interview about. Instead I get very, very rare calls about a $10 an hour "assignment" for a few hours 40 miles away from where I live.?Total?waste of time. I think all of their ads are fake. As the OP said, the recruiters and managers are like 21 years old and have no clue what skills are required or needed for a position. I had one?temp agency?put me on a job that I was completely unqualified for, and then when I was sent home, they tried to blame me for it. Totally unprofessional. They are all a bunch of liars?I've also been put on a job that I was told was a permanent job, but the first day I was on the job I was told the job would end in 2 weeks! The employers were totally baffled as to why the temp agency had told me that the job was permanent... Gee, thanks for wasting my time temp agenciesI don't take their calls. I have not found dealing with them an efficient use of my time nor a good source of desirable jobs. They are typically sleaze-balls and their clients are also sleaze-balls however, I am not looking right now.I can't believe what just happened to me.I applied to a number of positions around the country on Dice. I get an tech company from Florida interested in me. We have a?phone interview?it goes great, did personality profile great, we have a skype interview and 2/3 of the way through they tell me that this is a commission only position where you get a non recoverable draw of 2500 for 3 months?and then?you are commission only.Hello! You think I am going to relocate 2k miles for that! And incur moving cost of approx. 5k for a commission only job. Before this I was concerned they would pay for my fly in interview cost now I am not even interested.?I guess common sense isn't common. What they should have done is said hey we really like you for this position we just want to be upfront and let you know it is commission only on the first interview. I would have politely said no thank you.What a waste of time.I am glad this is just one of 4 I am interviewing with.I hire for many positions that are 75% commission, and this is precisely why compensation is one of the first things, if not the very first thing I discuss in my initial phone screen.?No sense wasting my time and yours. That said, I don't think it's a company thinking your desperate - just a poorly thought out interview process.Originally Posted by?Miss Crabcakes?I really hate when they don't disclose those important details upfront. Would have saved you a lot of time. And theirs.Like I wish it was mandatory to post salary range in all job ads.I cannot agree with you more, Miss Crabcakes!I have been on numerous interviews where the salary wasn't even?discussed?until after the job interview and into the job offer stage. Also, in my field, the job title isn't a clue to what the range might be. I've had an?Executive Assistant?classification?go for $12 per hour and a Front Desk Receptionist go for $20 per hour. One just never knows in support administration. Currently, I make a comfortable 40k and my title is Office Assistant. Go figure!That is an extremely frustrating experience in?job seeking?but as some of us know, it is not a new "tactic." The ad is a form of?falsified?advertising in my opinion. It?borders?on "job scams" in my opinion and never hurts repeating such things to other job seekers out there.It reminds me of the old days when I answered job ads in the newspaper when I was in school. I would go to an interview to find out it was selling vacuum cleaners door to door or some nonsense like that. I never purposely apply for sales jobs, so when the ad was purposely deceitful, I felt my time was truly wasted bothering with that.Florida, and much of the deep south is a rip off. I had a company whining about their inability to find someone to fill their position. They said I would be a perfect fit. Before I decided to fly down (on my dime) to meet with them, I told them I wanted to know the pay range. They kinda beat around the bush a little, but finally spilled the beans. $13/hr (for a job I could easily get +$20 up here) AND I would have to start through a temp agency?I told them they could keep their $13/hr and find someone who was a better fit... Basically, someone who really needs it??COL is a bit cheaper down there, but property taxes aren't, as well as insurance and food. And sunshine can't be used to pay bills last time I checked?a lot companies are going commission based + smaller base salary since all sales people are considered overhead. (a lot this is what going on with my current company)i agree that it's ridiculous for employers to play coy about salary. you can always negotiate salary even when there is a stated range. not naming it up front is just a tactic by employers to try to get people as cheaply as possible.i am job searching about 500 miles from where i live and work now and going to an interview is a fairly big expense for me, and involves taking a day off of work. even if it wasn't such a pain for me to get there, why waste my time and the interviewer's if i need $20 an hour and they're offering 8? i work in administrative support and that kind of discrepancy among similar jobs is definitely a reality.I feel like I'm cursed by something. All I've been getting lately are job rejection emails (and travel deal emails. Trips I can't afford to take lol). That's when I hear anything at all. I'm sure I'm not the only one experiencing this. The only ones who call me are bill collectors and crazy family members. A call about my resume would be nice for a change. I am actually certified in the field I'm seeking as well. I'm constantly editing my cover letter and resume.?Triple?checking my application. I'm not the kind of person who just submits anything. It's incredibly draining and depressing. People who are employed for a while and have money coming in, don't know what living on dwindling savings is like and barely being able to afford McDonald's. Out of desperation, I'm seeking retail and fast food now. They see me as "overqualified" because of my?certification??I think the market is?just so?competitive, that employers are demanding perfection. Human beings are not perfect though. They look for reasons why they CAN'T hire you. One place told me "You live too far away from the company. We are worried you might be late since you live an hour away. We need someone who lives 30 minutes away or less". WTF!!!If it's any luck to get a job I'll take the bad luck because my?skills?haven't worked.Although your chances of getting an interview through an online?job application?are very low, I would still do it. Do everything you can. Heck, this is how I got my current job, through an online posting directly through the company's website. From my experience, i hear back from about 25% of online jobs that I apply to. But, my resume was excellent.Just don't make your?job search?activity online APPLYING ONLY, try and do research on how to get better at interviewing, job applications, and networking. Rememberapplying to jobs-25%researching-25%networking-50%From what I can see, online is about the ONLY way to apply. There is no way to approach most businesses physically nowadays, what with locked buildings, security, receptionists, etc. Years back one just walked into a place and applied. No more. Your dad is living in another era. That said, don't ignore networking. Volunteer work, outside activities, etc.I do have to give that blogger one point- complaining about which party deserves fault for the state of the economy is a total waste of energy. They are both at fault, and it is what it is. But I guess my exasperation lies in the fact that this is an economy where on average there are at least six applicants for every job opening, and many of those jobs require such specific education and experience that most applicants don't stand a chance anyway. I just can't stand people who pretend to have all the answers given that these are economic conditions that most people haven't experienced before.A lot of the advice the writer gives in this article would probably work if the economy wasn't so tight. Not everyone can afford to move out of their state and go to another state or country. It may be true for some things that no one owes a person anything but it has gotten to a point where our people including myself NEED jobs and we need them ASAP! And also, what if someone is looking for work but for whatever reason their dream job doesn't fall in their lap? Then what? In normal economic times, the advice in the article might work. Not now though.You should not move unless you have a job lined up, otherwise your wasting money on travel expenses, unless your moving somewhere you have family and a place to stay.any unemployed person who lets the media shape their way of thinking about the economy probably won't find a job.First thing to accept is the fact that people who work at the employment bureaus are bureaucrats and could care less if you live, die or fail.?Matters?nothing to them and they are note going to do anything to help you out.Temp positions have been abused for years. I look at it as a sign of the times unfortunately. Nearly every job I have applied for in the year I've been out of work has been contract or temp. Very few full-time real jobs out there today.And it's easy enough to explain that a company went out of business after you left a job. I don't worry about it too much.You have to have experience to be hired, so some people in their early 20's, but out of college don't always get jobs in favor of slightly older workers.Originally Posted by?Soda120?No stories here yet, but I thought your age group was the first to be hired (because of cheaper wages, and age discrimination against older workers).?No, young people are having a hard time as well. Sometimes young people are the last to get hired because of the lack of experience thing. It took my 19 year old nephew over a year to find a very low-paying job. He would actually make more money at McDonalds but couldn't get hired there.?I am 30 and can't get hired. This is because every time I get an interview, I am competing with 20-40 other people looking to obtain the same position. Yes, some places do interview that many people. No, I am not in manufacturing. I am in elementary education.24 yo male. i thought that everything would be pretty gravy because i graduated from a pretty good liberal arts school.?then i took off my rose-colored glasses and realized that my "institution of higher learning and self-discovery" had just conned my parents out of nearly 200K over 4 years for a piece of paper that is now hanging from my wall, neatly plastered in a very expensive polished wooden frame. i'm going to try and sell it on craigslist one day and recapture some tiny fraction of that horrible investment. seriously, the schemes liberal arts school manage to pull off make bernie madoff's hijinx look like innocent child's play.?what's more frustrating is that I was told that I would have plenty of time to figure out what I wanted to do with my life during college...that I shouldn't rush it and let things play out naturally. So I did. Now I realize that the so-called college counselor was just being facetious. The sooner you knew what you wanted to do the better.??I hope she invested her life savings with Madoff.Age 54, too young to retire, too old to be hired. That is me!I am at my wits end trying to find a job. Until early 2009 I was a successful business executive with a great job as a?Operations Manager?for a great company. That was until January 6th. I was pulled into my bosses office and told that I was being laid off for economic reasons. They just could not afford me anymore. My duties were fanned out to three different employees none of them had any experience or knowledge in my career.I begged, I pleaded and screamed for them to reconsider. My boss just stared at me. Didn't say a word after his initial comments which were read off a script. I left in tears.Fast forward to?July 2010?and I have applied at hundreds of companies and only had 3 interviews. Once they saw my grey hair and wrinkles the interview was cut short. All my friends have cut me off and called me lazy. People talk about me behind my back. They say they know it is tough out there but think I am not trying hard enough. My relatives all have different points of view on my resume and give conflicting advice. My resume has been updated dozens of times.Here is what I would like answered:Should I?dye?my grey hair brown?How far back should I go on my resume. 10 years, 20 years, 30 years?What should I say I have been doing since January 2009?How can I apply for jobs that pay half of what I was making when they would see my last salary was $76K.If I fill out an on line employment application should I put my date of birth on it if they ask or make up a number? How about the year of my high school graduation?Is there hope? Know any?long term?unemployed people in their 50s who got back on their feet?There are many who are in the same situation as you. Don't give up, no matter what. Regarding your questions. First, you should definitely dye your hair. You want to look the part and act the part. Also, check out your wardrobe. Is it dated? Get one or two pieces that will give you a fresh look. Just going out in something new will improve your attitude.?Second, never lie or misrepresent on an?online application. I have said this in other postings and I will say it again. Employers have a way of checking everything these days. We are in a Big Brother society. Even if your age is costing you a job, you are still better off waiting for a firm to recognize your worth than fudging the details. Regarding your gap in employment, find something?freelance?to fill in the time with. No, it is not the same as working in your field, but it will at least look like you are doing something.Third, think about your location. In some cases, I think it makes sense to move to where there are jobs. It is a risk and it could cost big time if it doesn't work out. But the alternative could be never going back to work in your field if you stuck in a location that is severely depressed. Research the best markets for your field and consider what you need to do to get there.?Finally, be prepared to take less if it will get you back to work in your field. Think of it as a survival strategy. It sucks and it is not fair. Unfortunately, life is not fair. If you are in a major metropolitan area, go the the various temporary agencies and sign up. They might at least be able to get you in the door someplace.Whatever you do, don't give up, ever. You are too young to walk away. We all want this situation to turn around. If enough people keep on trying, even in the face what seems like insurmountable odds, maybe the economy will improve.Sorry you are going through this - it's something we all may have to face sooner or later.?I am 14 years younger than you, yet I do not put down my birthdate nor HS graduation date.Perhaps you need to open up your job search to other cities/states? Surely there is someone out there who is looking for a person with your level of experience.?Good luck!I'm 50 and barely hanging onto the job I currently have....making half of what I used to. I don't know if there are any clear answers. Yes, I would color the gray and try to put together a resume avoiding actual birth year and graduation dates. Try to make it more generic with '10 years experience doing this' type of format. Don't go into past salary if you can avoid it. As bad as it sounds, just down-play your previous job title(s).Thanks for the advice so far. I want to clarify somethings:I live in the Minneapolis area which has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country and am a home owner with an?upside down mortgage?so relocating is not an issue.I have studied?Microsoft Office?and scored really high in all the tests I took in Word, Excel, Outlook, PowerPoint, Access and Publisher. But even though my score is really high the temp agencies always tell me they are looking for someone with a different skill set. A relative of mine who is 27 years old applied at the same temp agencies and has been sent out to quite a few assignments. I think I do not look the part. The temp agencies want a young female to send out to their clients not an old man. My scores on the clerical, grammar and Microsoft Office tests are not the issue.I suspect they think I am over qualified for 90% of jobs in my general field. I can dummy down my resume somewhat but in the end they will know I am 54 and used to make over $70K. My situation is nearly impossible.I am about 5 years younger than you and have had much the same results as you. Anything to suggest age has been removed from my resume except that I go back 20 years on job experience because it shows I am a learner.I started working on expanding my freelance business a few months into my unemployment and now am getting so much work that it is nearly impossible to search for a real job. I like working from home, been at it for 5 years now and it gives me flexibility to be there for my middle schooler when he gets home. As long as the money is coming in from that I am not spending a lot of time looking for an office job but I still someday would like to find one with benefits since my child and I don't have health insurance.Millions have given up looking. Statistically, the rate is actually lower for those over 50, so that may not be as large a barrier as you think. But many employers are not interested in experience over ten years old.Age discrimination is almost getting as bad as racial discrimination in the work place, maybe even worse.It is hard to find a job in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area when you are older. I am 56 and still have not found anything. I have had a couple of interviews and even though I do die my hair, unfortunately, there are wrinkles I can't get rid of or hide. The last interview I had, I saw the shock on their faces when they met me because I only go back 10 years on my resume. I was hoping my charm and charisma would overcome that. Alas, they chose someone else.One of the problems here is that there are so many Universities/colleges and the jobs are going to younger people because they are here and will accept a lower wage. I would/will too, but my career is such that even though I state I am more interested in the job than a high wage, I'm not sure they believe me.So, there is an age bias here. And there are hundreds of people applying for the same jobs and it is an employers market. I myself am finally going to go ahead and give up my house and move to Illinois to live with my brother and his family while I search for a job there, because it is not happening here.But, I wish I didn't have to. I really hate losing my house, but I need to work and that is that.I know what you are going through and I'm 44 years old. I'm off for the summer from "On Call Substitute teaching. I know it's a part-time job, but it's like babysitting now a days. I'm in Grad School to become a better teacher one day. The cost to get a teaching credential I can't afford. I just start applying for jobs in North Carolina. Great schools for my son and a future profession for me...I hope.Hang in there. You should considering moving as well. This is why I joined this site today.I too faced age discrimination in one job interview when a younger man interviewed me and was shocked to figure out I was 40. Now I'm 102 weeks unemployed but I turned to?stock trading?with $35,000 in?Scottrade?to make money. But I still apply for jobs but get no response.I work for a company that does monitor employees facebook and myspace postings. Several months ago, at a Manager's staff meeting we were told that we needed to be very careful about what some of us were puting on facebook about our company and things that were going on there. In fact, we were given a warning that they were now monitoring employee facebook accounts to see what was being said about the company. Any comments that our management team considered to be offensive or confidential would be addrresed with written documentation including termination. As a general rule, I will not become facebook friends with the people I work with or for.Although not on Facebook or Myspace, employers checking into your profile is bull****. What you do in your time is your business. The only exceptions I could see are cops or teachers, or something along those linesI've been worried about this for years. From when I was 15-17, I volunteered 40 hours/week for a political campaign (I'm 19 now; I was?home schooled?when I worked) and, not to boast, did a pretty good job. I made 8k phone calls, raised over $15k in direct campaign donations, started an organization that raised over $20k in in-kind donations, was featured on CNN, ABC, and several newspapers, and a whole bunch of other stuff.?That said, that's the most substantive work experience I've had to date. I was a website manager, website designer, I worked phones, I fund-raised, and I worked on web assistance. After getting out of college in May '12, I hope to work as an entry-level or lower-mid-level admin. assistant and work my way up to?secretary?(basically the same thing, just better pay) and possibly exec. assistant someday. I'm working as an administrative assistant now, 25 hours a week, as well as being a campus photographer, news release writer, and web content manager.?So when I'm applying for non-political jobs, how should I write about my political experience? I mean, for one thing, the organization that I founded has a clearly partisan title, and so I have to somehow avoid even writing the title (that, or I could gamble and hope my interviewer and boss liked my candidate) on my resume.?Suggestions?I, too, spent a lot of time doing volunteer work in our May primaries, for our Republican candidate. I just lumped it under the "volunteer" section of my resume - I didn't name the specific party, and nobody really asked. I had other organizations, too, that I helped with projects - like the local Historical Society, Christian Coalition, etc., that I DID list, and it looked very good. The Christian Coalition led to involvement in our local?Tea Party Express?organization, too (I've been on TV and had my picture in the paper), but I didn't list that. It would have helped me in some interviews, hurt me on others. It did give me a lot of networking opportunities with some of the local conservative businessmen, though, and thanks to that, I've just gotten a nice part time office job, three afternoons a week, to supplement another part time job I start in December. Anyway, just list it, but no?parties?or names. Who knows? It could end up being a big plus. I have a cousin who campaigned for?Nixon?in 1968, when she lived in Washington, D.C., and it helped her get a nice job in government - she ended up working in the White House. Good luck!Has anyone out there ever felt that a cover letter has actually helped them land a job? Are they needed? (I'm interested in hearing from any HR reps out there) Do they actually get read? What is the value-add to cover letters, in this job climate, where your resume only gets a cursory glance? (I personally think they use them to line the bird cage!) :-)A good cover letter is another opportunity to make a good first impression. Years ago, I did one that included an outlined hand with some drawn-in computer?disks?... and the caption, "Need a hand? ... Mine is programmed to?produced!" -- I'll bet I got 25 responses to that unique cover 'letter' approach (and several job offers).They maybe helpful in getting a job but I really dont see the point in them and did not use them as it really becomes ridiculous in this job environment as you know chances are they are going to be tossed into the garbage can.Right now I don't think it matters, b/c it is a lottery to even get looked at. I've written cover letters + resumes for about 70 jobs in the last month averaging about 2 good ones a day for jobs I feel I am perfect for and have not gotten a single reply. Not ONE reply. In the past, I have usually applied to maybe 5 jobs I thought looked good, had reply on 4 of them, and interviews for 3. Actually I take that back about not getting a single reply, I have gotten some replies, but they are all scams.Im getting laid off in a couple months. One of the big computer peripherals companies are compacting their support into one call center for the United States, im unsure if they are doing the same in Europe. That is about 300 to 500 calls a day for the United States alone.?Anyway, i've applied for jobs on careerbuilder and craigslist and I'll im finding is a lot of these jobs, for someone like me, are spammers. Janitor jobs, stocking shelves, ect. Even the bashas i go to only has 4 people working the evening shift. That is insane...Trying to blame this problem on Bush is not going to solve your problem. This problem has been brewing since the 70's.Agencies suck. Yeah, yeah, at one point they 'might be helpful' but now they are just desperate scumbags piggybacking on anyone they can...Agreed. Temp agencies have been nothing but a waste for me- I'd get calls to come in and waste my time filling out employment forms and having them bothering my references only to hear after an hour of talking to them that they don't have any clients contacting them for workers...so why the heck did you just waste my time?!?!??It makes me livid to think they're only fielding resumes as a way to look busy to the higher-ups and get face time with people. I don't even bother with temps anymore and just have been doing the leg work on my own (with better results).No temp agencies in the country are hiring at all . and frankly it is disgusting what the companys who are hiring are paying in the way of salaries .How discouraging. They have told me if I go in there and test I'll be on their "list" of people they will send out. Sheesh, I just wonder how many people will be on that list.When I'd gone into the agency before there were many people working there. When I went in the last time I saw two people working there.I remember the days in which you could just go sign up and they had a job for you the same day - during the Clinton years. I can ONLY hope President Obama turns things around, but due to the ruin of Bush, et al, it may be too late.Don't count that fool to turn anything around, he is more concerned with walking around and smiling and waving like a celebrityI gave up on temp agencies a long time ago. I got tired of spending two hours testing, and then for them to tell me that my skills aren't good enough, and I was only qualified to be a file clerk! After being an Admin Asst for 40 years, that's really insulting. So, accidentally, I got into private security, another time when I was unemployed. I still do it part-time, though. They're low paying jobs, but you have the opportunity of making OT, and the companies are flexible. You can work a second shift - either 3-11 or 4-12, and have your days free for serious job hunting. And if you like staying up all night, you can work graveyards.?I was hired by two different school districts to work as a substitute secretary, after the school district that I was with for 3 1/2 years terminated me. Substitute clerical jobs with school districts are also flexible, and I work event security part-time.The temp agencies prefer to hire younger people, so they can stick them in call centers which is where they make their money these days. They don't want people with experience, because they would do more work to find them a job. The only decent temp services are the local ones. They don't have the large?staff turnover?like the chains do.Stay away?from most temp places and try and network on your own. I have 2 reliable temp agencies I have worked with. Stay away from the national chains and see if you can get in with a local agency.MBAs are a "dime a dozen" now thanks to the economy and the number of people going back to school. If someone wants to go back I suggest getting a?Master's?in a specific field relevant to tomorrow innovations and opportunities.Experience will usually win out over education (unless minimum standards are put in place) IMO as schools are not all the same in regards to curriculum, standards etc and if a hiring manager can get someone who has worked in the industry or for a competitor they will pick them over an MBA most of the time.The key to being "different" is to specialize. Go get a Master's or secondary degree in something that not everyone else has and if you are going to get your MBA get it from somewhere reputable other wise you're only getting a bill, a piece of paper and an acronym after your name. Not a great ROI if you ask me (which I am sure no one was doing?)Originally Posted by?Gottasay?No offense, but while you are unemployed, take some econ and history classes b/c blaming Bush for this nation's economic mess demonstrates how little you learned in business school.It all started in 1913 with the Federal Reserve. Bush, who claimed to be a conservative, tripled the size of the federal GOV. Obama has doubled the size of the federal GOV in two months and he's getting ready to do it again!Originally Posted by?TVandSportsGuy?Job Fairs are pointlessNot entirely, but for the most part I do agree that most of the corporate representatives I've met at job fairs said, "Well, we're not hiring now, but when the economy improves we will look over these resumes and start hiring?." I did manage to find one job at a job fair, but I did the math and realized I would be losing money due to distance traveled. There were other reasons too, but that's the main one.The only job fairs that have been of any use to me are the ones that where put on by my college. I went to a city one and wow was it a waste of time.I have pretty much washed my hands of temp agencies. I applied for what I thought was a good job at least for me, uploaded my resume the whole nine yards. Didn't hear a thing so did a follow up call and found out that job was gone. They didn't even bother to respond to email or anything. Two weeks later the same job was listed in their job postings.They just want to collect resumes, give their "shpiel" and account for time spent before the higher ups. There are no jobs. You spend time and money going to those "job fairs" and nothing comes of it. You can spend the same time cold emailing resumes to your own leads and answering ads online - in the?comfort?of your own home.Originally Posted by?tookey?I have pretty much washed my hands of temp agencies.?I applied for what I thought was a good job at least for me, uploaded my resume the whole nine yards. Didn't hear a thing so did a follow up call and found out that job was gone. They didn't even bother to respond to email or anything. Two weeks later the same job was listed in their job postings.Me too. I was done with them years ago after much wasted time with them.They repost the same fake ads and also, they probably have the same round of jobs that they either can't fill because their requirements are too much or there's a high turnover rate there. All red flags, regardless of the reasons for reposting.The whole idea that we must take a stab in the dark with keywords on a resume. The just shows how nuts it is. They do use computer software to scan resumes for keywords. But unless you know what keywords it is set to. Then the whole keyword thing is most likely a waste of time. Unless your doing specialized work say Java in IT. You have no idea what some HR guy in Boston is thinking anyway.My Dad works at a company some years ago they were hiring. This was like 2003 they were hiring 2 jobs pay 50k. Even then they had 200 resumes come in note times were much better. HR feed the resumes into the scanner gave him the top ten. This was a mid level specialized job not everyone could do it. The resumes laid on his desk were useless why? They had none of the skills needed for the job. Needless to say my Dad was less then happy. And what did the head of HR tell my Dad. Hey sorry about we will some other keywords then what we used. My Dad made HR go back by hand an read the resumes one by one. Dad told him to what we use to do before we had all this sh*t read the stack. He found 2 real good fits for the jobs he had open. So go ahead sit up all night think up keywords if you want. But in the end it does not matter anyway. Most resumes will never be seen by anyone who is alive anyway. It is like 300 to 500 for every job if anything most people in HR are even more lazy. But their is nobody old school like my dad to make him do his job. At the end of the day you still need to know the keywords the program is set to. Chances are they will only look at say 125 resumes. Thus guys 126 to 400 who emailed their resumes ended up in file 13. Good keywords or not no one cares. They never even looked at them.Employers want a person that has recent experience.Not everyone has recent experience, but does have experience!Employers want a person who knows the computer programs they use.Excel and Word are common programs, but not every company uses the same programs as other companies do! And, companies don't really want to train today.Employers and Agencies don't take old/filled jobs off of their websites.When a person sends a resume thru a website, but doesn't hear back about it, it doesn't necessarily mean the company/agency doesn't like your resume.......it could very well mean the job was filled a long time ago! And, they?STILL?don't take it off of their website!So many companies want a Bachelor's Degree and/or a Certificate.?Gee, a lot of us can't afford to obtain either, but have the experience.Ok, now if any of you on this forum have any other things to add to this, please do. This is a?RANT?type Thread.........so be my guest!Recent experience = Long term unemployed need not applyI can't stand how employers advertise for entry-level positions and still require experience. Hello...the point of an entry-level job is to gain experience for what you want to do in the future.Originally Posted by?frizzo100?Recent experience = Long term unemployed need not applyAnd why have I been unemployed for the long-term? Because NO ONE WILL HIRE ME!!!!?I've just given up. I'm tired of this stupid job market, this economy, the uncertainty, and the truth is it's not going to get better any time soon.Originally Posted by?NorthsideJacksonville?I can't stand how employers advertise for entry-level positions and still require experience. Hello...the point of an entry-level job is to gain experience for what you want to do in the future.Entry level position = Need experience, but will get entry level pay.Quote:Originally Posted by?NorthsideJacksonville?I can't stand how employers advertise for entry-level positions and still require experience. Hello...the point of an entry-level job is to gain experience for what you want to do in the future.^^This +10000000Originally Posted by?NorthsideJacksonville?I can't stand how employers advertise for entry-level positions and still require experience. Hello...the point of an entry-level job is to gain experience for what you want to do in the future.I know what you mean. Recruiters/HR reps do this for salary purposes. As AP already said they want to give the heads up that there is a need someone with the experience who will take "entry level" pay. It's all about word games where marketing is concerned. I would not let that discourage me from applying for the job though.?If most people looked at the job posting and?decided not to apply?because it stated?"minimum 3 yrs. exp.", then if you applied, you would have a better chance at having your resume reviewed. It's not guaranteed but worth a try.Originally Posted by?Nomadic9460678748?And why have I been unemployed for the long-term? Because NO ONE WILL HIRE ME!!!!?I've just given up. I'm tired of this stupid job market, this economy, the uncertainty, and the truth is it's not going to get better any time soon.I'm in the same downward spiral. I see lots of ads for jobs I have experience in, and even though I apply, I never receive a call. The most recent one was for a forklift operator. I have over 10 years of experience operating a forklift, but the ad required 2 years of "recent" experience. Because of this, I know I will not be getting a call. Operating a forklift is like riding a bike; once you learn, you don't forget. Basically, it is a more tactful way of saying we don't want unemployed bums working for us.There is nothing that pisses me off more than applying for a job I know damn well I'm qualified for, just to see the same job posted 2 weeks later. I don't know what the hell these HR people are thinking. The way the job market is anymore, there are a lot of people who are going to have a less than perfect job history, and because of the fact they are being so picky, they could easily miss out on a lot of good candidates.Well, my wife and I have discussed it and if I don't find a job by March, I?WILL?be applying for my SSI so it can start getting it in June or July. I really don't want to, but when it comes right down to it, doing the "early retirement" thing will at least be putting some money into the old banking account from me!Originally Posted by?frizzo100?Entry level position = Need experience, but will get entry level pay.That's exactly what it is.Originally Posted by?NorthsideJacksonville?I can't stand how employers advertise for entry-level positions and still require experience. Hello...the point of an entry-level job is to gain experience for what you want to do in the future.The point of entry level with experience is to get experienced, high skilled people and pay them minimum wage.Originally Posted by?collegeguy35?I had a interview today and I may have landed a job. It has been 13 months this is interview number 4. Looks like they are open to train me for the job. That is super rare these days if they offer me the job. I am taking it and will be happy to get it. Like Camping Mom what few jobs I see are not worth taking. You do the numbers and your losing money. Drive your car your gas commission only no base pay. Or the wages are so low you might as well as stay home. But they want you college educated and tons of skills. But their only paying you 9 to 10 bucks an hour. I mean are they for real? And you have to know 5 types of software. But we will not train you.. You have to know everything from day one it is nuts.Best of luck. I am right there with you-I too took that $10hr job-and they considered me entry level-at 45? Ok, you keep thinking that way Mr.Owner.?And I wholeheartedly agree-they want you to know how to fly to the moon and back-but won't pay a living wage-but what kids get working at the mall with no college degree. I was offered a job back 3 months before I graduated with my associates degree in 2001. Back then I was worth 28K. Now-$10hr? Same as a kid who's got nothing but a GED or high school diploma? It's gotten out of hand.Thanks Camping Mom and Returning West for the kind words. I love how some people have no idea what their talking about. Guys who have worked 20 years same place. Or guys that have retired have not worked in years. And their are more then a few young people that have no idea too. They got lucky landed something real good out of college. So why can you not do it? These people love to give you their two cents. Or you should have majored in engineering or rocket scientists make good money. I mean get real the job market sucks. It is going to suck for years to come. But somehow lots of people think we are being lazy. That we are not looking hard enough. Hello the jobs are not there is anyone at home?Originally Posted by?bisjoe?Entry-level has come to mean without experience,?however some businesses cannot use someone with no experience, but in most cases they are still looking for skills or education. Think of an entry level surgeon, as a good example. Right after graduating from med school and internship. Someone off the street will not be hired for that job. Many companies that might have hired people to train for entry level jobs don't have to now. There's a significant cost to training, in lost production by the trainer,?and when there are plenty of experienced people out of work that can step into a role it's not good business to hire the the inexperienced person.Entry-level from a recruiter's marketing perspective refers only to the salary expected and?not?the amount of time spent working with a particular skill set. Job postings should never read "entry-level" or else it will automatically attract those desperate candidates with no experienced or very little experience even if the ad states, "entry-level w/2 yrs experience. It's a proven fallacy. It doesn't work as suggested in your other post on the other thread. That's the reason why experienced candidates who would be a good fit are not applying for the job(s).I'll say it again and again, IF the job ad is misleading...the candidates will be misleading hoping that they will land an interview and hopefully show some potential in order to get that paycheck. So poor marketing and advertising cannot be the candidates fault. No way. I definitely know what works and that is posting a detailed straight to the point "No Bull" job posting AND phone screen the candidate before having them come in.?The surgeon analogy just does not fit here.?From the consultant's standpoint I could never waste money which includes time and resources in this economy. Sure a truthful job posting gets fewer resumes and takes a bit longer to fill but at the end of the day if you are upfront and honest with a potential candidate?they will know it?and you both start off on the right foot to a hopefully rewarding placement for the candidate and commission or bonus for you.?I think a lot of time companies don't know or are delusional regarding what qualifications are essential for the job.?I've seen postings where they require years of experience with proprietary scientific software that only they are using. I've seen postings that demand 5 years experience using the exact model number of equipment they use. My personal favorite was the ad that was demanding 5 years experience with Windows Server 2008.The truth is these companies think they are going to get someone who has been doing the exact same job they are doing there and not have to train them at all for entry level salary. A lot of times that isn't going to happen and they then whine about a shortage of qualified candidates.Either train and develop new employees and pay them entry level salaries or pay big bucks to poach employees from your competitor. You can't do both even in this economy. A lot of times a decent driven employee doesn't take as long to train as they think.Employers want someone with a masters degree to pay $7.50 an hour.Employers consider all unemployed people lazy regardless if the unemployed person has been in school, doing self-study, working part-time, or completing volunteer activities. Just the fact that you are unemployed, makes you lazy to an employer even if you are working your butt off.?Employers want ZERO gaps. It doesn't matter if you are taking care of sick relative, stay at home mom, or college student. If you have gaps, it is tough.In my field, employers want someone who is willing to sleep with them. How else can you compete when you are interviewing with 50 other people??Employers want someone tall and with big boobs. I thought about investing in a pair of high heels to see if it helps with my job search. I am kind of short. I always see tall teachers who have jobs.I haven't had to apply for a job for 9 years, but I'm trying to find a job for my unemployed Mexican roommate (with a Green Card) who is far from fluent in English, and has no car even. How's that for a challenge!Must have dependable truck or car.?That one really kills me! Even if you have a brand new car, no car is dependable. If you apply and say you own a Prius, with a sticky accelerator pedal, you may be rejected for the job? They might move on to the next applicant driving an Infiniti?By the time this 2nd Great Depression runs its course, we may have car ownership rates equivalent to Mexico: 80% down there don't even own a car.And many of these on-call Property Maintenance jobs, which he'd excel in, are only paying $8-9 hour, and-and, must have your own expensive tools. Now how can you keep a car running and maintained today, and pay your rent and food, on those kind of wages!!!His brother in Mexico owns a grocery store, and is telling him: Come down here, I'll pay you $150 a week to work in my store. And being down there, he has a house paid for (one-half rented out) and he's more and more leaning in that direction. I say: Go for it!?I know two other Mexicans who have returned to Mexico and are doing better down there, than they were up here.Is it necessary to include GPA in resume? 'Cause my GPA is low, about 3.1, so I am afraid this would reduce the employers's interest in the first impression. But?if I?don't include GPA, will they assume I am hidding something? I am so confused now. Need your advice. Thank you.?Btw, I am a?grad student?in EEI never have or would. It's immaterial.Not sure what to make of this. EE is a demanding field, a graduate EE degree is something to be proud of.What is an "average" GPA for your institution? If you are at a prestiege university, and maybe working part time as well, maybe a 3.1 is nothing to be ashamed of?But be honest and frank with yourself - why are you not making more "A" grades? Are you staying in a field that's not a good fit for you really?It is not always easy to make all As. If I had more time to study, I would have made all As ,but if you work full time with a whole family to take care of, than I think just going to college full time or part time and pass with Bs are awesome. I'm not sure about the OPs situation though.All I can tell you is that if I see the resume of a recent grad that doesn't have the GPA listed I assume it wasn't good. I actually think a 3.1 is fine by the way.I only used it with my first job, I haven't put it on there since.Unless?you have zero work experience don't put your GPA. If you have no work experience you need to show sometihing positive about yourself but providing you have some work experience whether landscaping or an itnernship in your field that would be better than GPA.The only time GPA should ever really come up is for companies who are targeting recent grads and specifically ask for it.I'm in South Florida & I feel the unemployment rate is not as bad as they say it is here. Wages are not the greatest however.Whatever you do, don't consider moving to St. Louis, MO. Unemployment is out the wazoo there. I left there after searching for 8 months for work. I found something down here within six weeks.live in CA.Mostly low level service jobs hiring. However, as always, there is more people applying than actual positions.My region of Appalachia is hiring a?few?people, but it's mostly retail, fast-food, and coal mine work. If you have a high school diploma then you might have a good chance. If you have a college degree then you're in trouble. The region has a college educated population of 10% and a high school graduate population of 60%, so businesses are not as motivated to come here unless it's customer service, retail, fast food, etc. The customer service jobs are normally filled rather quickly and rarely advertised.?Now, if you want to start a business then this region might be a decent place to start. My state brags about being the easiest place to start a business b/c they have tons of information available to potential business owners and affordable labor. However, the last time my dad tried to start a business they said you HAVE to have a business degree.I live in GA and it's on the top five WORST places to get a job and our unemployment rate has hovered at 10% or more since this mess started, so unless you have a specific desired skill, stay away from here.Why do people get offered a job only for them to reject it because pay is laughable? It's not like it's easy to get a job, and millions more Americans wish they were in their position. So if anything they should be grateful they were given an opprotunity to work instead of turning it down and complaining that they can't find work. $7 an hour is better than nothing.I get what you are saying because I'm looking for work and would just about take anything. But you have to factor in commute costs, and I guess what I'll call happiness costs. Do you really want to slave for low wage if you spent years on your education and have the?skills?and passion for something that deserves better pay??Yes you'll get a paycheck but how far will a $7ish/hr job go? Not far even if full time when you factor in that it has to pay for has, rent, food, and that's not even talking about other bills.Originally Posted by?Cynthetik?Why do people get offered a job only for them to reject it because pay is laughable? It's not like it's easy to get a job, and millions more Americans wish they were in their position. So if anything they should be grateful they were given an opprotunity to work instead of turning it down and complaining that they can't find work. $7 an hour is better than nothing.Because at $7 an hour they are going to lose everything they have and have the added expense of commuting to a job they can't afford to hold. Once you've lived a life above $30-40 an hour it can be hard to cut back that much.I work for T-Mobile, but its branded(Not Corporate)They pay me $8.25 an hour, and i live in one of the most expensive cities(New York) That's like $800 net income every 2 weeks.Monthly?Commission?check(if i'm lucky and hit my quota) will be approximately $400 to $750.You tell me whether or not I should be thankful. It's hard being thankful when you're 26 years old, and your other peers are making double ; ; even triple of what you make, with even more benefits.?Yes, I'm grateful that i have a job that i sort of enjoy, but at the same time, I'm also sort of disappointed that other people are making more than me. It's sort of a fact of life that you just can't get around.I do believe some offers are insultingly low. Esp when someone has a higher degree or specialized skills or many years of experience, it's a hard pill to swallow when they are offered a job for $10/hr. I really think the entire pay rate for jobs needs to rise in America so the average family isn't constantly losing traction in this economy.Originally Posted by?BigDGeek?$7/hr is below the federal minimum wage. Maybe that's why.?Not that far below though. Federal minimum wage is $7.25 unless I've missed something very recently. If one has a family there is no way they can make ends meet on that and afford to dress for and travel to that job. I'm sorry but there are bound to be some situations where you just have to draw a line and say NO! Wages have been stagnated for far too long!Why would I?turn down?an offer with laughably low pay? I do that from time to time (self-employed/contractor working for several firms). $7/hour is not better than nothing. I'd rather have free time than work at $7/hour.I have two degrees and a decade of experience and recently interviewed for a job who's online posting required Degree + Experience, and they wanted to pay me $8.25 an hour. Needless to say I turned it down. I wouldn't gripe if I was applying for a low-skill job where you know the pay is going to be crap, but when a position requires a secondary education and they still want to pay you sh*t, that's pretty insulting.I had posted this in another thread, but I did have a friend, who in the worst part of the recession, was offering a mid-shift job clear all the way across town paying minimum wage. She couldn't take it because her car had broken down, and being unemployed meant she didn't have the money to fix it. She looked into the bus schedule, and the last bus to serve that area left 11 p.m., and her shift wouldn't have been ending until 1 a.m. So she'd either have to wait until?6 a.m.?for the morning bus and wouldn't get home until 8 a.m. (not an option as her partner had to leave for their job at 4 a.m. in the morning, and they had three girls under the age of 10 at the time), or hope whomever she worked for would let her leave at 11 p.m. instead. Needless to say....leaving at 11 p.m. wasn't an option.?While there were obviously other factors than just the low pay, that didn't help. More money, they might've been able to figure out something, but for minimum wage, it wasn't worth the jumping through hoops in order for her to take the job.I saw that happen to a couple of people I knew during the worst part of the recession...they got offered a job, but transportation to and from would've meant they'd actually have been *losing* money. It's one thing if you're offered minimum wage at the?Walgreens?on the corner from your apartment where you can walk to and from work, it's another thing if you need to figure out transportation--if your car was already paid for, you'd get a break there, but there's still gas and paying?insurance?on the car (and hopefully the car doesn't need maintenance.) If you need to take public transport, you have to figure out if it's better to pay by the ride, or buy a pass (you may be hoping you'll get something better), or if you can even pay for a pass upfront (where I live, a?monthly pass?can cost $80 to $180 a month depending on how far you need to travel on a daily basis.) On minimum wage, that can be a chunk of money.And that is presuming that you're single, with hopefully minimum bills where you can pare down. If you're a single parent, or own a house that for whatever reason, you can't offload, or whatever....minimum wage may not do you any good at all.You're preaching to the choir, man. I'm disgusted by the loss of middle class jobs and the replacing of them with low-paid McJobs. And our federal minimum wage is a joke.Originally Posted by?BigDGeek?You're preaching to the choir, man. I'm disgusted by the loss of middle class jobs and the replacing of them with low-paid McJobs. And our federal minimum wage is a joke.I am too. We were warned about it too. The jobs that were lost paid more than the jobs that have replaced them, and that is hitting the middle class hardest. People with college or someone with 40 years of experience shouldn't have to accept minimum wage in any job.$7.00 an hour is better than nothing if you are living with family but not if you have to pay rent, bills, and food. So yes it would be somewhat of a positive if you lived with family because you would have an active employment status with the option to look for something better.Because I make more than 3 times that at the moment, am educated, and have lots of experience. Why on earth would I take that amount of money? That pitiful amount wouldn't even cover my rent!It's a waste of my time to go through the process if a job pays that little. Some people still have the mindset that when you don't have a job you are supposed to accept anything because it's better than nothing. But they don't realize that they would eventually depressed after being stuck in a job they had because of the pay and the commute.If nobody ever complained about pay or rejected offers then the pay?for every?job would be minimum wage. A lot of people have low standards and are desperate and this is what brings wages down.$7.25 an hr is for a high school kid working at McDonalds for first job experience. Not for someone with advanced education and experience in a skilled job.It was a period in my life when I had no income and still looked?past?minimum wage jobs because I knew they would not keep me in my apt.Accepting $7 an hour just locks you into a cycle of poverty. If you are going to sell out you should be honest enough not to sell yourself cheaply.It is a somewhat tricky line as to when do you accept the 7-8$ hour job. I know that many if not all college grads did not go to and graduate college with the goal of returning to and making the same wage they had whilst in high school- I argue that the whole point of college is to better aid you in finding a job that a high school diploma is not good enough for. So if I was in the situation of where 7-8$ was my only choice, I would first exhaust every resource in finding a better job, that is?hit up?every family member, friend, relative, go to every career fair, and go far out of my comfort zone when looking for work-if none of those options worked then I would take the 7-8$ job.In any case mentally it can be very tough almost to the point of soul crushing disappointment when you have work experience, when you graduated University and you have to go back to the job you had in high school-there is a valid reason why people moan and complain.Originally Posted by?Cynthetik?Why do people get offered a job only for them to reject it because pay is laughable??It's not like it's easy to get a job, and millions more Americans wish they were in their position. So if anything they should be grateful they were given an opprotunity to work instead of turning it down and complaining that they can't find work. $7 an hour is better than nothing.Is your question rhetorical?They reject the job BECAUSE the pay is laughable.Not everyone searching for a job is so desperate and?destitute?that they need to take whatever pittance an employee wants to offer. These people are able to be more choosy, and sell their?skills?and abilities closer to what they think their market value is.?(One other point, if you take that low paying job in the interim, it takes time and?availability?away from your?job search?which could hinder your ability to find a better job... you cannot be networking, interviewing, etc, at the fryer bin at McD's).I turned down onr or two job's that offered below $10 an hour just due to the drive. Basically was just filling my tank back and forth to travel four to five day's a week a 60 mile round trip. If the job was closer to home I would definitely take a $10 job just to have some type of income.You are going to have to pay what the market will accept. You offer a wage, it gets declined, and you think the problem is with the job seeker? They should accept whatever you offer? Up your offer, in fact up your offer to obtain the employee you want,?not the one?that will accept your lowest offer. That is how a capitalistic society works, both sides agree to what a fair wage is.Unfortunately businesses don't like?capitalism?when it applies to the?labor market?so they force their employees to sign non-competes to stifle competition in the labor market and lobby/bribe?the government to flood the labor market with an immigration and h1-b free for all.Originally Posted by?doodlemagic?I'd challenge you to go look at some job listings. Nobody spells out even vaguely what the pay is these days so you pretty much have to go apply and interview just to find out its a job you wouldn't even consider takin.This has been my experience. At least, this is why I've turned down many jobs over the years. Most recently, I turned down a job as a bench jeweler at a high end chain jewelry store. I put on the application that my salary expectation was $40k. The offer was $10/hour which comes out to $20,800/year. Not even close. If they had posted how bad the pay was I never would have applied.?Quote:Originally Posted by?RunD1987?I turned down onr or two job's that offered below $10 an hour just due to the drive. Basically was just filling my tank back and forth to travel four to five day's a week a 60 mile round trip. If the job was closer to home I would definitely take a $10 job just to have some type of income.This is the other issue.?If I?took that job at $10/hour I would have made much less due to the cost of commuting. One of the stores the manager wanted me to work at didn't have a parking lot so I would have had to pay to park my car on the street every time I worked and the parking is $4 an hour in that area! I would have had to have been insane to take that position. It would have taken me more than 2 hours to get there on public transit, so that wasn't an option, either.Originally Posted by?Selena777?How do you define poverty? $10/hour can put a single person over the federally determined poverty line, depending on how many hours they work. 400 per week is approximately double the income that is considered poverty level.The federal poverty line is ridiculous: the poverty level for 2014 was set at $23,850 (total yearly income) for a family of four.According to the government, a single person earning $12,000 is not considered poor.I consider poverty to be when one lacks the funds to sustain a family comfortably. $12,000 is not enough to sustain a single person living on his/her own.$23,850 is not enough to support a family of 4. I consider that to be poverty.?Big?time.And $10/hr is closer to $20,000/year... So even by government standards, $10/hr would put a family of 4 under their ludicrously low poverty line.Originally Posted by?beera?Because I make more than 3 times that at the moment, am educated, and have lots of experience. Why on earth would I take that amount of money? That pitiful amount wouldn't even cover my rent!It's a waste of my time to go through the process if a job pays that little.Agreed. It would be one thing if I didn't have a job at all. But companies these days are looking for the best value for their money and will lowball as much as possible. That's business, but I don't have to accept that. If I know what my?skills?and experience are worth on the market and you don't want to pay me within a reasonable range, then I won't take the job. Companies may think they're being fair because you get more money, but how would you feel, knowing that you're making less than others around you for the same work? This is why I hate the salary history question and refuse to answer it now. I don't want to be punished for being underpaid; I'm looking for a new job to correct that situation. If they've budgeted a certain amount and can afford to pay that amount, then that's what a candidate should receive.$7 per hour is not always better than nothing. Depends on the cost of commuting and the dress code. At $7 per hour I am got going across town or investing in clothes. I can't afford to! Is it a job that offers advancement or just a lifetime of bone crushing?poverty? Are there benefits? Is it full time? Lots of different factors apply.A real job needs to pay enough to buy the basics in life. Rent, utilities, food, healthcare, and transportation. If you don't make enough for this you should always be job hunting.Quote:Originally Posted by?fishbrains?I refused jobs like this when I was unemployed because I did not want to taint my earnings history.?Going from $125,000 down to $15,000 would raise more red flags than remaining unemployed. I preferred to live on savings and have the flexibility to interview rather than jump at a job that would not even cover my monthly expenses.Plus, a lot of minimum wage places won't hire a down-on-their-luck professional because they know we'll?bail?as soon as we find a good gig. They don't want to bother with the hassle.That is certainly true. Had I been forced to take a min wage job I would have had no qualms about dropping that position with no?notice?if something better came along.Because at $7.25 an hour most people would be in better financial shape just collecting unemployment instead. I can guarantee you I would have more money in my checking account from 6 months unemployment and sitting at home spending no money on commuting, work clothes, etc. then I would working at $7.25 an hour full time for 6 months.When you factor in taxes, social security deductions, health insurance (assuming you get it), etc, earning $7 is pitiful as well as insulting. Nobody can live on that unless they have two other jobs or are lucky enough to live at home without paying rent or having to buy their own food, clothes or pay for utilities. Unemployment probably pays more! And what does accepting $7 say to another prospective employer: that you are so desperate you'll take anything?Depending on your circumstances, it's pretty easy at $7 an hour to find oneself paying to work. If child care has to come out of that, if transportation (public or otherwise) has to come out of that, if one has to provide housing for a family, et cetera.Having been a New Yorker for nearly a decade, I left there right shortly before 9/11. I still work for the same firm I did there, only in another city and one that is less expensive than New York to live and work. New York used to be the job capitol of the United States for years and years. That dried up when 9/11 hit. It used to be the place young adults could move to after college in pursuit of the American Dream. Some did make it big there. Others ended up solidly middle class. And then there are the working poor. It's well established the cost of living factored in NYC means a middle class salary there becomes low income. Sure there are people still making the big bucks, like on Wall Street. But then there's the roller coaster of Wall St. The people that work there face high rates of unemployment during economic downturns. That's when Wall Street lays off only to hire again when the market picks back up. That's cyclical.?The new?working poor aren't the working poor of the past. The job market has changed. It's tougher now to be starting fresh out of college and matching?skills/education with the existing jobs. Employers pay less because they can. There are no unions to protect employees. Labor standards protect against some abuses but do not protect against the falling out of the middle class.?Because that's the bigger phenomenon - is the rug has been pulled out from under the feet of the middle class. It's true you can't be middle class making that kind of salary in New York or elsewhere. When more and more jobs is all that they're paying, the reality is there are fewer middle class jobs to go around.Quote:Originally Posted by?Cynthetik?Why do people complain and reject offers due to low pay?Because not everyone is willing to participate in a race to the bottom."Well then the goal should be $11 an hour"It goes up to $10 next year and $11 after that.Raising the minimum wage does not exactly help people out for a variety of reasons.1) Raising the cost of these jobs means the are more likely to be automated away. A cashier does not bring in a profit. It is process that is easily standardized to the point of self checkout. Even McDonalds automated away cashiers in Europe years ago. It's not even a manual dollar amount. Instead of Hamberger is $1 it's a button of a Hamburger!2) If it cannot be automated away then employers will be more picky on what they will hire for. If you think someone that dropped out of high school suddenly is better off..they aren't because they are going to be much more apt to hire someone that has a diploma rather then a dropout. That's just the bottom line3) It hurts smaller businesses as larger ones can easily afford it. There's complete business models out there that get businesses to outspend?competition?to drive them out of business. High amounts of capital means more hours operated and can mean more service.So what works??Finding?a better job. We should look at improving wages by competition rather then mandates.I feel that anyone who accepts a minimum wage job as a full-time job may not have?confidence?in their abilities or?job searching?skills. I say that because why would someone?feel the need?to settle for minimum wage if they making much more than that in their previous job? Now you may have to take a slight pay cut when losing your job but there is never ever any reason to go that low.When I was just about?homeless?and not having any luck with a job I'd've taken anything - $7.25 an hour at McD's is absolutely better than $0.00 living in my car. I could at least rent a room in someone else's apartment or house for $400 a month all utilities included. It's absolutely workable. Luckily Ifound a job?makiing $11.25 an hour, which is more than I've ever?made in?my life, and I am beyond grateful for it. I'm still just renting a room so I can save money. It's working, and I'm totally happy. Obviously I'd like to make more, which is indeed what I'm working toward. Once I complete my 2 yr degree this summer I will be qualified for a better position in the same company, which starts off at $21 an hour. I am really hoping I will be able to make that happen by thwe time October rolls around. I'd be totally satisfied with $21 an hour for awhile.Originally Posted by?FBJ?By focusing on a job that is paying atleast $8.00 or more and telling myself that minimum wage jobs are not the only job openings in my area.Anyway, I'd lose the house on $8/hour as surely as I'd lose it on $0/hour.There's a lot of reasons, but it depends on the?individual?too. For someone with a college degree and solid work experience, taking a $10 an hour "professional" job is downright insulting and creates a?vicious cycle?of the skills needed to perform that job being terribly undervalued. Imagine for examples if lawyers started accepting less, and less, and less from clients because THEY NEEDED THE CLIENTS (compared to "needing a job"). Over time, the value of lawyers falls and falls and falls, till next thing you know lawyers are making $12 an hour after going to college for 6 years and taking the BAR. If lawyers are making $12 an hour, what the hell will fast food workers be making? Pennies?That's an extreme example though. All and all, it's hard to have one position that pays you $40 an hour, to get laid off, and have similar positions only offering $15-20 for the same level position. It happens a lot. Now, on the flip side, if you don't have much work experience, are jobless, no degree, these lowball pay positions are better than nothing.Originally Posted by?DorianRo?Theres a reason why you don't lose your unemployment compensation if you end up getting a offered a job that paid less than your last jobYes the purpose of UC is to get a job paying?1. Slightly below what you were making before2. The same3. Or MoreOriginally Posted by?Cynthetik?Why do people get offered a job only for them to reject it because pay is laughable? It's not like it's easy to get a job, and millions more Americans wish they were in their position. So if anything they should be grateful they were given an opprotunity to work instead of turning it down and complaining that they can't find work. $7 an hour is better than nothing.There are many many reasons why an?individual?person will do what they do. So I answer your question with that caveat out if the way.?To me an employer's salary offer is the indication of your worth to that employer. Being low balled means that employer doesn't value your time or job?skills, and it can be a signal that the employer who doesn't value their employees by offering them crap pay, treat those employees like crap as well.?So a person my reject a low ball offer because they think the employer will treat them them badly, and because they think their time, job skills or the job should pay more.?Some people could use job offers see as a fact gathering thing by comparing their current pay at their current employer with this job offer pay or for a career they are thinking of entering.?Just two reasons among many.Originally Posted by?Cynthetik?Why do people get offered a job only for them to reject it because pay is laughable? It's not like it's easy to get a job, and millions more Americans wish they were in their position. So if anything they should be grateful they were given an opprotunity to work instead of turning it down and complaining that they can't find work. $7 an hour is better than nothing.7 an hour? After the govt steals half, you're working an entire day for 25 or 30 bucks?Originally Posted by?FBJ?I feel that anyone who accepts a minimum wage job as a full-time job may not have confidence in their abilities or job searching skills. I say that because why would someone feel the need to settle for minimum wage if they making much more than that in their previous job? Now you may have to take a slight pay cut when losing your job but there is never ever any reason to go that low.If you cant afford to move and you really can't find another job, I don't blame them for taking it. The main reason people went that low is because up until recently low wage jobs have been the only job growth post recession. To think that it isn't the only option is wrong. Not every area has had recovery or the same kind of recovery.Originally Posted by?mkpunk?If you cant afford to move and you really can't find another job, I don't blame them for taking it. The main reason people went that low is because up until recently low wage jobs have been the only job growth post recession. To think that it isn't the only option is wrong. Not every area has had recovery or the same kind of recovery.It was no point in accepting an minimum wage job when I had no cash coming in because the rent would not have been paid and I would have had to move in with my mom. So I had to focus on jobs paying a livable wage. Originally Posted by?Cynthetik?Why do people get offered a job only for them to reject it because pay is laughable? It's not like it's easy to get a job, and millions more Americans wish they were in their position. So if anything they should be grateful they were given an opprotunity to work instead of turning it down and complaining that they can't find work. $7 an hour is better than nothing.Because for $7 an hour, you might as well just stay home and collect government aid. No one can live on that kind of money. Would you settle for it?Not only that most minimum wage jobs don't even offer full-time hoursOriginally Posted by?Cynthetik?Why do people get offered a job only for them to reject it because pay is laughable? It's not like it's easy to get a job, and millions more Americans wish they were in their position. So if anything they should be grateful they were given an opprotunity to work instead of turning it down and complaining that they can't find work. $7 an hour is better than nothing.Sometimes it is what you're willing to accept that determines what you're worth. Back in the day I was offered $10 an hour to work at a?Goodwill?Distribution Center. I turned it down for $8 an hour to do clerical work, but I found the clerical work to be more engaging, and of course the job at Goodwill would have meant long, isolating hours. At the time I was seeking employment, I wasn't working anywhere. In all truth, I would rather deal with the stress that comes with using your brain than the?physical stress?that is exerted on your body working with your hands.Technically, both jobs offer a wage that is laughable, but there is more advancement given some types of employment than others. I'm not above working in retail, or in warehouses, but I have not had to do that type of work since high school, so you tell me if someone that was making more than $7 an hour should take it, just because it is better than nothing. Some people exhaust their unemployment benefits, people do all types of things, in order to prevent certain types of work. I can't say that I blame them.Originally Posted by?Adrian71?Because for $7 an hour, you might as well just stay home and collect government aid. No one can live on that kind of money. Would you settle for it?The only job I had paying $7 an hour was part-time seasonal.?This was back in 2003.I am now married.My husband and I live in?low-income?housing.Our rent is below market rate.However, if I was making $7 an hour, that would?not?be enough to pay the rent?*all bills paid*, phone bills, food and transportation?*we both use public transportation*?where we live even if the job was full-time.And, my husband and I?do need?health insurance.My husband is diabetic. He needs health insurance to pay for his medication.So after all of the deductions were taken out, there would?not?be enough to cover the basic expenses.So, the hourly rate?does?make a difference.The cost of living keeps going up. Rent keeps going up. Food prices keep going up. Tolls keep going up. MTA fares keep going up (if you're in New York).People just want decent money to pay for those things. Does it make sense to have a job and then you're?homeless?No.Originally Posted by?houstan-dan?Because some offers are laughable... I was making about 180k in a contract job a year and a half ago and as it was ending I kept getting offers for like $20/hr. My resume was spot on and I knew my worth. Jobs didn't give enough descriptions and often the pay just varies incredibly. I ended up getting a job for a bit less than what I was making but reasonably close. Those job offers I got were pretry insulting. However, I think that they get what they pay for and they must not have been looking for much..?I even told one of them that they should be advertising that the positions have minimal responsibilities and are entry level, because they didn't put that or the pay in the post.This is part of the problem. You get lowballed. This happens a lot even if you don't have a job because they expect you for peanuts.The problem with the bold however is because they thing they can get just above entry level so they don't have to train but still pay as if it was. It's annoying that companies do that and I hope it changes soon because nothing is wrong with training and in fact, by training they don't have to unlearn habits from other companies.STT?Resident?has a really skewed knowledge of what things cost! Speaking like a true?Marie?Antoniette!Or he/she doesn't have to actually PAY for anything and see the bank account being drained to $2 each month! This poster also forgets that Americans cannot live on Chinese wages, because things here are expensive in contrast with inflation, or is noticing the?ratio?between wages and inflation. For example, corn flakes bags have been emptied in half but cost triple what they used to cost 10 years ago....salaries for the same admin job for example are exactly the same $9 or hour with complete disregard to what we are charged for things like rent and food. I am not even talking about clothing, shoes, etc. Our jobs have no value to our employers, we are paid ridiculous wages(speaking of retail etc not rocket?scientists?and dentists), but somehow are told to save! Don't you need money to save??? How do you save when it all gets spent on rent and food and gas???? Please don't give me this bull, things elsewhere don't cost an arm and a leg like they do here in "class happy land"!!!!A low paying job is not good for your mental health and can lead to depression once you realize your sole purpose for breathing is working to pay bills and eat food.Originally Posted by?FBJ?Not only that most minimum wage jobs don't even offer full-time hoursThe only real point of taking a minimum wage job while unemployed is to get you out of the house on a part-time basis. That can be a good thing. Work part-time?and then?work full-time to find a decent job. It also makes unemployment bennies last longer.?The depression occurs when one has to live off $7.25-$12.00 an hour full time with no help. These are often demoralizing, customer service jobs. We all know how sweet and nice Americans are to customer service workers right.?Dealing with a low paying customer service job day after day can lead to depression.That and you had to take the job but once you take it, unless you are able to rise up through management, you are branded with a scarlet letter that is almost as bad as being unemployed to some.Originally Posted by?FBJ?But isn't going the temp agency route a lot better than settling for a minimum wage job only offering 25 hours a week? Atleast with the temp agency it's a good chance you can find a full-time job on a temporary instead of a part-time on a permanent basis.IF it works out. The fact is temp agencies are pretty well known for being bad for people looking for work and many don't have a good chance of finding a job more than temp.?Ever?hear of perma-temp?I think that, sometimes, it also has to do with the work load. If someone told me I can drive 80 miles a day to work as a?desktop publisher?(what I went to school for), to make 8.50 an hour, I would reject the offer because, instead, I can drive 10 miles to make the same amount of money, at Walmart, and have a smaller work load. What is the logic in driving farther and working harder for the same amount?$7 won't even pay my rent. I can't waste my time on a job that don't pay sh--. Someone else can have it..be my guest. That would mean I'd have to get another job and possibly one more.?I am in California that hourly wage is groceries and that's about it. If your rent is cheap....do your thing, but in this state, that's chump-change.Because a minimum wage job would pay less then my unemployment! I also would be eligible for sub pay from my employer in the event of a indefinite layoff, sub pay would pay the difference between UE and 85% of my current wage. Between the two benefits I would need to make at least triple minimum wage in order for it to be worth it.I am giving serious thought to making a change in job, and possibly in career. A former co-worker of mine made a change last year from a customer service-type position with a county department to an?admin assistant/office manager type job, and she used indeed. Is it better than monster and careerbuilder? I used those in the past, but found there were quite a few spam jobs posted there. While doing some preliminary searching on indeed, I do find several listings from staffing agencies. What is the difference between going through a?staffing agency?and applying for the job directly? Is there any advantage one way or the other? (I have always applied directly through organization/county/department websites.)Thanks in advance.I had more success with indeed than with the other two websites, it seems more up to date. Regarding staffing agencies - if the recruiter is old-school and talks to the hiring manager personally, you'll have a higher chance than applying via company websites. But, there are few of these left, plus third-party recruiters submit resumes through company career portals nowdays, so it's no different from you applying directly to the company website. If you have a good network, you can try the following: after you found jobs of interest on indeed, etc., approach your contacts that work at that company, this will up your chances of getting an interview. BTW, that's how I got my current job - asked a former colleague who worked at that company to pass my resume (prior to that, I was submitting it to a number of positions on company website with zero callbacks).Staffing agenciesBad:-They post fake jobs to lure you in-they demand references without even a job being on the table and send all your manager references to their sales dept-They offer much less pay and no or joke benefits compared to direct employers in fact they rob you blind-Companies that use them tend to be bottom tier dirtbags and often treat their workers like?excrement- no job security-they try to F you out of?unemployment compensation?by lying or offering you their worst jobs.?-Only 27% of their so called temp to hire jobs turn permanent 18% of temp jobs overall.Good:-I can't think of anyI would say explore all options and then go with the best offer. As others have said, Indeed is an aggregator which also posts links directly to company websites. I know I can find our companies job openings easily through it. So, I use it for research. It is generally better to apply directly to the company to cut out the middle man. Pay and?longevity?can be better.Best source, if available, is through a friend or acquaintance. I've worked as a hiring manager.?Word of mouth?travels furthest.Staffing firms should be regarded as an employer of last resort.Originally Posted by?prettyvacant?Hour rates at contract positions are usually higher than employees' salaries. Sure you don't have benefits as a contractor, but come on, some corporations consider free coffee and tea bags for employees as a "benefit".Contract workers don't have to participate in corporate politics, performance review process, and many "mandatory" trainings about corporate values and other crap. They don't have to work long hours for free. They aren't constantly fed with "teamwork" and "synergy" BS.Only in certain niche IT fields and similar. In most fields, in addition to having no benefits, nor PTO, the pay rates are as little as 1/2 to 2/3 of what a direct employee makes.However, I agree not having to deal with corporate HR bs is a big plus for me but not enough to outweigh the above. I guess that can go into the plus column.In a?temp job?the client manager makes one phone call and the temp is on the street. Also temp agencies have been widely reported to play very dirty games to F their temps out of?unemployment compensation?such as make false claims about why they were fired or offer them the lowest paying crap job 40 miles away and report them as refusing work when they say no.In a normal job there are usually procesesses and multiple approvals needed for a?layoff?or firing.Agreed. Temp work is defiantly less stable than a direct hire salaried position. Maybe if your in the IT field temping is a better option because of the higher hourly rate but like you said temps in other professions make 1/2 to 2/3 of what a direct hire makes in the same position. Temps also do not get paid holidays, no sick days/PTO, no vacation days, no heavily?subsidized?health insurance/dental/vision coverage, no 401k or retirement funds.?All those benefits can add up to an extra 10-15k a year on top of your salary. Like you said a client can?get rid?of you with one phone call for any reason. With full time jobs it takes several weeks perhaps months to get rid of an employee and there has to be solid documentation of why that employee is losing their job not just one phone call.If I?can help it I hope that I don't ever have to work another temp job again. If I lose my current position I will start my own business and go back to school for a profession that isn't swamped by staffing agencies and douchebag companies that refuse to pay a decent salary and benefits.Keep in mind that 27% of temp-to-perm options become permanent. The odds are incredibly good compared to being unemployed and interviewing. Temp-to-perm is a great opportunity and is a great way for you to get to know the employer and vice versa. No other scenario gives you a greater chance of landing a full time position.The problem arises when people start treating a temp position like a permanent position. If you aren't permanent after a period of time which you consider reasonable, it's time for you to remember that this is a temp job overall. Don't drag it out more than it needs to be.Originally Posted by?Strode2?Where do you get these figures from? You sound like someone with a bad experience and an ax to grind!The 27% figure comes from research done by Susan N Houseman a Senior Economist at the Upjohn Institute for Employment Research as well as a study done by the American Staffing Association.Susan N. Houseman | W.E. Upjohn InstituteTemporary job market sees hiring explosion | sound like a corporate shill.?Staffing agencies are not the place to go to find good jobs with companies that are nice to work for. The companies using temp agencies are mostly lousy frauds using the agencies to rip workers off of benefits and lying to workers telling them that if they work hard and do a good job they will be hired. You are better off avoiding staffing agencies unless you are desperate and interviewing for direct employment only.?Temp agencies are basically pimps and are just as seedy.Originally Posted by?NJBest?Keep in mind that 27% of temp-to-perm options become permanent. The odds are incredibly good compared to being unemployed and interviewing. Temp-to-perm is a great opportunity and is a great way for you to get to know the employer and vice versa. No other scenario gives you a greater chance of landing a full time position.The problem arises when people start treating a temp position like a permanent position. If you aren't permanent after a period of time which you consider reasonable, it's time for you to remember that this is a temp job overall. Don't drag it out more than it needs to be.27% are lousy odds to be putting months and months working for substandard wages and non-existent or substandard benefits compared to spending a few hours interviewing. Your argument is ridiculous.Originally Posted by?NJBest?Keep in mind that 27% of temp-to-perm options become permanent. The odds are incredibly good compared to being unemployed and interviewing. Temp-to-perm is a great opportunity and is a great way for you to get to know the employer and vice versa. No other scenario gives you a greater chance of landing a full time position.The problem arises when people start treating a temp position like a permanent position. If you aren't permanent after a period of time which you consider reasonable, it's time for you to remember that this is a temp job overall. Don't drag it out more than it needs to be.I agree that the problem arises when companies expect the same level of performance as a direct hire and keep the temp on for years.?Honestly?if you are a great worker and your performance is top notch, the company should bring the worker on full time with benefits after six months. I find it ridiculous that some companies drag temps out for 2-3 years and it feels like they are dangling a?carrot?on a stick in front of the worker.?For me my temp experience did provide me with some hands on experience coming out of school since I didn't have any industry experience. The company I temped for just did a?restructuring?of the research departments so I had a feeling they weren't going to be hiring any full time staff for a while; therefore, after 6 months I started applying for full time positions all over the country and landed my new chemist position in WV. I really wish I could of find a full time position in Georgia but all the positions required a minimum of 3 years of experience and when I apply to those positions I would get no responses.My current position called for 0-3 years of experience so my current company was willing to accept a recent?college graduate?so I got the interview and was offered the position.?I am not saying temp jobs are terrible but I do recommend trying to get an interview for a full time position yourself as there are no guarantees that the temp position will go permanent even if your performance is great.Originally Posted by?te3t?What other choice does someone have in 2016 with UI only being 26 weeks but to register with a temp agency?So many. For example, start a business. The generous 26 weeks gives you a lot of time to sort things out.Originally Posted by?NJBest?So many. For example, start a business. The generous 26 weeks gives you a lot of time to sort things out.I think you can only do that when you are employed by starting a business on the side.Originally Posted by?NJBest?Why would you put more than you feel comfortable with into a temp position? And why would you work for substandard wages? That has more to do with you than the employer. The only thing that makes sense is the lack of benefits.That is what temp agencies pay. Substandard wages. They are pimps and rob the workers blind. The only way they can get people to take their lousy jobs is to tell them it is temp to hire and that if they do a good job they will be hired so the low pay is just temporary. It is just plain fraud on both the company's and agency's part. Originally Posted by?te3t?What other choice does someone have in 2016 with UI only being 26 weeks but to register with a temp agency?Have savings. But if you have UI you need to be very careful dealing with these pimps. There are widespread reports of them threatening people on UI to force them to take their lousy jobs and reporting people for refusing work even when the job offered was a fraction of what they were previously making, not related to their training, and not a viable commute.Most of the companies that use temp agencies are looking for cheap and disposible workers though they would like good performers which is why they dangle the carrot of getting hired to try to motivate worker. Companies that value their workers don't use temp agencies extensively.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?Have savings. But if you have UI you need to be very careful dealing with these pimps. There are widespread reports of them threatening people on UI to force them to take their lousy jobs and reporting people for refusing work even when the job offered was a fraction of what they were previously making, not related to their training, and not a viable commute.Then it would be up to the person to accept the right assignment that's connected to their experience and background.?If I?have a resume showing customer service experience I would not accept any assignment dealing with labor work. I mean I assume the purpose of my resume in a?temp agencydatabase is to get me those types of jobs not something completely different. And if that is happening then I agree that certain temp agency should be shutdown for being fraudulent.Temp agencies will throw bodies at jobs and see what sticks. Most of their recruiters are even dumber than HR and have no idea about what specific jobs are about.This is why you need to have an?emergency?found. Temp agencies prey on the desperate. I personally won't anwser their calls anymore as I would never in my life work for one again.and the temp agency can threaten to report you to UI for refusing work and whether or not you have a right to refuse unsuitable work they will cut you off and it can take multiple hearings and months to get it reinstated.?Trust?me these pimps play dirty. Steer clear unless you are totally desperate,You are not required to take unsuitable work but most UI will immediately cut you off if a?staffing agency?files a report?and then?you have to show it was unsuitable at the hearing. So in other-words if you are unemployed and receiving UI do not even take calls from temp agencies do not engage with them in any way and do not let them know your are on UI unless the claim is against the temp agency in which case you are really scr#wed as they will play every dirty trick they know to F you out of it.Originally Posted by?te3t?Well I good story to report about a temp agency which is a temp being hired permanently at my job after starting in July. So some of them out there are good and will put in the right job where you can perform and get hired.I'm not saying such things never happen but in the majority of cases you end up getting conned into working a job for below market wages and no benefits and working your rear off for a company that has no intention of hiring you regardless of how well you do. You are better off not putting the effort into dealing with and working for temp agencies and finding your own job.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?I'm not saying such things never happen but in the majority of cases you end up getting conned into working a job for below market wages and no benefits and working your rear off for a company that has no intention of hiring you regardless of how well you do. You are better off not putting the effort into dealing with and working for temp agencies and finding your own job.^^Totally agree. Temp = Employer of last resort.Originally Posted by?NJBest?Again, you'r projecting your opinion rather than providing accurate and objective information to people who come here for help.Temp positions provide great value to both, candidates, and employers.They provide a good value for employers and the agency but definitely not the candidate.I don't know what planet you are living on but staffing agencies, in addition to usually not giving any benefits nor PTO, do not pay competitive rates. Their pay rates are extremely sucky often as little as 1/2 to 2/3 what a direct employer pays. You either agree to work for crap wages or you just don't work for a?staffing agency?which is my choice. Everyone knows that. I don't think you have any credibility left on this thread so I suggest you stop making a fool of yourself.I know the wage for most temp agencies in 2015 was around $11 an hour and would not go above that.I worked at Pepsi as well but in R&D as a Chemist. The whole department was filled with temps and they never hired anyone that I can recall. The people I worked with hated the agencies, hated the company, half the department quit in the time I was there including several of the few direct employees they had. Everyone who eventually found permanent jobs had a huge pay bump and benefits. I went from 40k and no benefits at all to 65k and full benefits and am up to $80k just a few years later. Worst job I ever had with the worst morale I've ever seen.There are a few very niche fields mostly in IT where you can name your own price to these agencies and the client and they will throw money at you but everyone else better just bend over.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?I worked at Pepsi as well but in R&D as a Chemist. The whole department was filled with temps and they never hired anyone that I can recall. The people I worked with hated the agencies, hated the company, half the department quit in the time I was there including several of the few direct employees they had. Everyone who eventually found permanent jobs had a huge pay bump and benefits. I went from 40k and no benefits at all to 65k and full benefits and am up to $80k just a few years later. Worst job I ever had with the worst morale I've ever seen.There are a few very niche fields mostly in IT where you can name your own price to these agencies and the client and they will throw money at you but everyone else better just bend over.Yeah. Our profession get screwed up the a** by temp agencies when it comes to wages.?Chemists?working through temp agencies get paid $15-20 an hour with no benefits. Maybe if have a PH.D. And you are working as an research chemist or?scientists?you will get paid more but the chemists with only a bachelors or?masters degree?work for below market wages.I went from $17 bucks an hour to $50k with outstanding benefits. Health/dental/vision coverage only costs me $18 per pay period versus $450 a month through Aerotek. According to pay scale the average analytical chemist makes $52k a year so if temp agencies were paying competitive wages they should pay $25 an hour for?analytical chemists?to pay close to market wages.MSchemist, I understand why you hate temp agencies and it was a pain in the rear that I had to move 9 hours away from my hometown to West Virginia for a full time chemist job. I hope and pray that I don't ever get laid off from my current job because I really hope I don't have to go back to working temp jobs.Originally Posted by?Mr.Hospitality?Have you thought about finishing college? Seems a bit to stop halfway through.After seeing what PH.D. Folks go through I stopped at my bachelors. Most PH.D. Chemistry graduates get stuck in post docs paying 35-45k a year for years on end or get stuck in low paying jobs in academia. Also I don't want to go through the politics you have to play to get a PH.D.; at this point if I do go to grad school it will be part time while I am working full time on my current job.?I am not going to gamble on a PH.D. If the pay off isn't guaranteed.No way! Do not get a PhD in science. In addition to needing to be very lucky to find a?professor?to mentor you and develop you vs use you as cheap labor to do the lab work as PC said you spend 5-7 years working like a dog for a $20k?stipend?only to get spit out with even worse job prospects so we have hordes of scientists working as post-docs or?adjunct professors?with little hope of ever having a real job. I saw the writing on the wall at my grad program and said no thanks on the PhD I'll just get the MSc. If I ever go back for another degree it won't be a science degree and noone in my family will ever major in science again in large part due to the temp agencies infesting the profession.What you are saying is so true. Most PH.D. Scientists spend over a decade getting treated like a Slave in a PH.D. Chemistry program and working low paying post docs until they are 40 and no longer employable.The lucky ones eventually land a 100k scientist job after years of post docing and spend all of their 20s and early 30s working for?substandard?wages. They are 35 years old until some decent money start kicking in.?There is one PH.D. Scientist at my current job that had to leave his wife behind because they couldn't find work in the same state. Most PH.D. Graduates have to be willing to move anywhere in the country for a job thousands of miles away from their family and sometimes even significant others.Out of the classmates in my graduating class that decided to go to work after undergrad I'm actually the luckiest one. One of my classmates is working at enterprise as a manager trainee which had nothing to do with chemistry. Another one is working as a temp for low pay for a small biomaterials company.It's really?sad?that most chemistry graduates with a BS/MS are going to end up in low paying temp jobs paying $15-20 per hour or some job totally unrelated to their major.?I also wouldn't advise any of my family members to major in science. The only STEM majors I will recommend is engineering or computer science. One of my cousins is about to start college next year and she doesn't know what she wants to major in and I told her defiantly not chemistry. I'd rather her not go to college and work at?Burger?King then work her way up to manager than waste her time and money with a chemistry degree.It's referencing a service.More like a pimpYes it is a service that allows companies to treat workers like disposable trash. Workers who don't get benefits, don't get raises, and get tossed on the street with one phone call if they get sick.As I said before, if you belong to a very rare niche you can name your own price to the agency and they will kiss your rear to keep you happy. If not, the temp agency will troll for the cheapest worker desperate enough to take the crap wages they offer and still be minimally acceptable to the client, charge the biggest markup possible to the client.?This is why they are so aggressive at trying to find workers and sign them up. The vast majority of workers will not deal with them because they do not offer competitive compensation. Certainly noone with a direct job will find what they have to offer anything but insulting. I stopped taking their calls after I found my current job. Every time I talk to them I just end up getting Ped off when they offer no benefits and ~1/2 my current pay rate. I get calls from them several times a week even though I haven't posted my resume nor had contact with any of them in nearly 4 years. I am actually considering changing my cell #.BTW I was on Payscale or Glassdoor a while ago and it listed companies with the highest and lowest paid chemists. Guess where the who the employer the lowest paid chemists work for... KellyOriginally Posted by?te3t?Well if there was no temp agencies around people would be in bad shape if they ran out of unemployment.I understand your statement but if someone has other options he or she should avoid temp agencies if the goal is finding full time work that pays decent money. I agree that if a temp job is all that you can find in terms of a job it's better than no job at all. Not everyone has an abundance of savings to live off of until they find that perfect job so temp work can become useful if you are in that situation.After college I had very little savings and didn't have enough money to move cross country for a full time chemist job so I took the $17 hour temp job at Georgia-Pacific and I was optimistic that it was going to turn into something good but during my time there I noticed another temp in my department that was there for 18 months without a raise or no intention of ever being brought on full time. Most of the time the department didn't have any work for us to do so I started to get the vibe that this job is not going to become perm so I started applying for positions through the company as an internal candidate and got an interview for a full time position in another department and I felt confident that I was going to get the job but they decided not to hire for the position. The salary would have been $45k a year.?After 6 months of working there I asked my current department manager if he had any plans of bringing me in as a full time employee and he said "my department is new from the?restructuring?so I don't have any money in the budget to hire a full time employee at the moment but you can apply to other positions in other departments at GP careers" go figure! I simply was disgusted with this company and I applied for positions out of state where I met the experience requirements listed in the job description. At this point I was willing to relocate anywhere for a full time chemist position.I had 2 interviews for my current job and was offered the job a month later. My current job pays $50k a year with a 3% cost of living raise every year and a?potential?merit raise based on performance. The company also gave me $5k relocation bonus for moving to West Virginia for the job.?I refused to continue working for $17 per hour and no benefits living check to check to keep the rent paid, gas in the car, keep the lights on, eating rice/beans, and spam just to get by.I feel like I am finally making enough money to live comfortably as a young single 22 year old and finally feel my college investment is finally paying off. No thanks to the?temp agency?and dirtbag temp company I was working for. I didn't bust my?rear end?in school to struggle to pay for basic necessities. I moved 596 miles from my hometown for a decent chemist job and it so much better than that lousy temp job I had.Sorry for the rant but if you take a temp job, you better be looking for permanent work in your field as there are no guarantees that you be offered a permanent opportunity. It doesn't matter how good of a worker you are in the position if the client has no intention of hiring a full time employee you will not be offered a permanent position even though the agency advertised the position as temp to hire.Originally Posted by?te3t?Well if there was no temp agencies around people would be in bad shape if they ran out of unemployment.No they would have real jobs instead of companies forcing people to work through pimps to avoid paying benefits. They still have work that needs to be done they just won't be able to abuse the temp system any more.Originally Posted by?sandsthetime?Companies say it is the government's fault that they can't provide decent benefits, and that they can't give employees a good salary. We hear all the time from them that the government is supposedly suffocating them on purpose to try and make citizens more dependable on government.If they wouldn't act like complete sociopaths then the govt wouldn't need to have more and more laws regulating them. Companies have shown over and over again that self-regulation is a bad joke.Temp agencies today now require years of experience, so the person changing careers or the new graduate is SOL.Originally Posted by?te3t?Well I would think temp agencies would want to maintain a reputation of sending employers the right people with experience.You don't get it. Some of us have years of experience. But there's always a laundry list of excuses why they can't hire you. "Well, we want 5 years of experience on Star version 1.05." But I know Star version 1.04 and the only difference is a few items in the menu bar. Plus I have all of the other qualifications.""But Star version 1.04 is NOT GOOD ENOUGH! Are you try to collapse capitalism???"$7/hr is downright insulting, in many areas you basically would be paying to work for them considering the COL. My butt would rather take unemployment than slave away for a wage that patheticIf you take one [employment personality test], watch out on it!I recently took my first one, called ProfileXT. It was for a job I wasn't very excited about, and the interviewer said the best thing to do was give honest answers, and she'd let me have a copy of the?result?regardless of whether they'd hired me. Ok, fine.I didn't get the job, and after reading the results of the test, I can see why. I wouldn't hire me after reading that thing! It wasn't that it was too far wrong (though on a few points it was?Totally?wrong!) it's that they seemed to pick and choose their answers to put you in a bad light.For example: under the heading of Manageability, which is described as "?Tendency?to follow policies, accept external controls and supervision, and work withing the rules " their first statement is "You tend to prefer to be?autonomous?and self-reliant in the typical work situation". Sounds like I like to work alone, and might be hard to manage. Under the heading of Independence, which is defined as " Tendency to be self-reliant, self-directed, to take independent action, and make own decisions", the first thing they list is " You generally prefer to follow established procedures", which sound like I don't like to think on my own. Also not very positive.But if you switch those two statements, I'd be self-reliant under the Independence heading, and following established procedures under the Manageability heading both of which would sound great! Stuff like that is all through the report. It's like the testing agency is out to screw you for some reason!Another example: In one spot it says: "You tend to be cautious, preferring to wait for more information before taking action" This under Decisiveness. And then it says: "You tend to be a subjective thinker and to emphasize personal opinions more than factual data" under?Objective?Judgment. Don't those two statement sort of contradict themselves??Probably lots of folks already know not to tell the truth on any profiling test, but for though that are unaware, this is your heads up.These worthless tests provide jobs for the companies and their employees who fabricate and propagate the tests. And to the sales force whose job it is to sell these useless tests to HR managers.At least those people are working??Even?if they're not providing a service of any value.Gotta keep the churn going.I posted a thread a few weeks back about this very subject. About the tests that give you 50 or so questions with 4 possible answers, strongly agree, agree, disagree, and strongly disagree, sometimes with a 5th neither agree nor disagree/neutral. Essentially the only "correct answer" is either strongly agree or strongly disagree depending on the question.I took a 7 part assessment test that lasted 4 hours recently for a job I had for 5 years, with the same company previously. They just implemented these ridiculous tests about 2 years ago. One section was this personality test that was at least 75 questions in length. They asked the same question at least 8 times and luckily I have a good memory and was able to go back and pick the same answer. I passed the test by the way, but didn't get the job. long story.Anyway, I don't know what corporate idiot thought it was a good idea to use these types of tests. Do they really believe people don't know how to answe them?dishonestly? Sure, there are a handful out there that are clueless. But really the majority of us can fake our way through them and tell the employer what they want to hear.?Its just a sign of the times I suppose.The tests are faulty. You need to get the answers online to pass it.?And they ask for this kind of test to work at Target, lol.Quote:Originally Posted by?Tampa1228?I took a 7 part assessment test that lasted 4 hours recently for a job I had for 5 years, with the same company previously. They just implemented these ridiculous tests about 2 years ago. One section was this personality test that was at least 75 questions in length. They asked the same question at least 8 times and luckily I have a good memory and was able to go back and pick the same answer. I passed the test by the way, but didn't get the job. long story.Anyway, I don't know what corporate idiot thought it was a good idea to use these types of tests. Do they really believe people don't know how to answe them dishonestly? Sure, there are a handful out there that are clueless.?But really the majority of us can fake our way through them and tell the employer what they want to hear.?Its just a sign of the times I suppose.Isn't that the truth?Faking my way through one of these tests was the way I landed the last "normal" job I had. I also helped another person pass one of these tests and this person was called into for an interview. She nearly had the job but was too honest at the interview about herself.?lol, honesty is a bad thing in America now.Yeah, it seems self-defeating to be overly honest on these kinds of tests. I'm not saying to lie in response to black and white questions that can be verified such as if you have been?convicted?of anything, but to abstract type of questions such as the ones mentioned above. Choose the responses that are most likely to get you hired.lol I remember interviewing at Target many years ago. It was very weird to say the least.?Quote:Originally Posted by?Java378?The tests are faulty. You need to get the answers online to pass it.?And they ask for this kind of test to work at Target, lol.The truth isn't supposed to hurt so much that people go into fantasy-land. The truth is like a light shake to the body: a good alert that lets you know how to design better?solutions?and plans for the future. For example if your house is burning down and a loud noise at night alerts you that there is trouble; it is not there to hurt you but to shake you out of bed so you survive and do not burn to death.?The problem with manipulators and?oppressors?is that they occasionally tell the truth to the point where it is intentionally designed to hurt, confuse, stun, and offend the majority or the targeted?individual?and they automatically go into a catatonic fantasy-land, pleasing the ruling clique of course.?Quote:Originally Posted by?iamrollinglow?For as long as I can remember, honesty has never been valued in this country.The truth hurts so much that many people make a reality out of fantasy.Only a nimrod-in-charge with?zero?skills?at reading people?would feel this sort of test is of high value. Minor value, maybe. High value - No. Such buffoons likely do not know how to ask interviewees great questions during an interview.I applied to several banks for a job. Two out of 3 had a required profile test. One I passed, one I flunked, and the job I got did not use one. I really had to laugh that I flunked a test for a job I have done excellently for many years. It just proves that they are not much good. Helpful hint....If one of the answers is "the customer is always right", pick it.Originally Posted by?artsyguy?lol I remember interviewing at Target many years ago. It was very weird to say the least.?My son was hired at Target about two summers ago.After going through the entire hiring process, he politely told them that he would take a position elsewhere.When they asked him why, he told the truth. For $7 an hour, and after speaking with some of the employees here, I am too far overqualified to work here.?Have a nice day.Originally Posted by?grimace8?yup. seems like they want sheep. so you should "sheepify" yourself when taking these testsI said this in another thread and I'll say it here because it applies very well to what you said.George?Carlin?put it best he said that these companies want people who are "just smart enough to do the job, but too dumb to question authority."Originally Posted by?gentlearts?I applied to several banks for a job. Two out of 3 had a required profile test. One I passed, one I flunked, and the job I got did not use one. I really had to laugh that I flunked a test for a job I have done excellently for many years. It just proves that they are not much good. Helpful hint....If one of the answers is "the customer is always right", pick it.The same thing happened to me once! I moved and applied for a bank job because I figured with 5 years of experience, it would be easy to get. I've taken personality profile tests before with banks with no problem, but apparently at this place they didn't like one of my answers. The HR person brought it up in the interview, and I thought I explained my answer well, but she kept coming back to it. It was strange. (I wish I remembered the question, but don't.) I didn't even get sent on to interview with a manager, even though I know I was a better candidate than most of their other applicants. Oh well!I applied for a medical receptionist job once where they had me take a Myers-Briggs personality test and and IQ test. It was really strange, seemed kind of invasive, though apparently they thought my results were "impressive"?. I ended up not wanting the job anyway because they were looking for someone to work 10-3, seven days a week. No thanks. Perhaps some doctors should not also be office managers.Not a fan of these tests.?Years ago, I took one of these type of tests for a?Outside?Sales Rep job - the test questions were mostly "logical?equations" and I failed. The test was all about logic and other algebra-like equations (geared more towards a "left-brained" thinker), not so much sales and marketing...I had to retake the test. I barely passed, but got the job needless to say.I wouldn't want to work for a company that would subject me to this kind of crap in an interviewThis is what happens when the "Personnel?Department" becomes "Human Resources". Employees are now "resources" or "commodities" to be used and discarded at will. Not to insult anyone personally, but I find Human Resources to be the most over blown, self-important waste of money of any organization. Even with all their so-called scientific personality tests, they still hire the same old schlubs.These tests can be a real pain. I recently had to do both?aptitude?and personality testing, and I kept failing until I found this website [url=]Employment Coaching Institute[/url]Yep someone posted an answer key a while back but you basically have to answer as though you are an honest, extreme extrovert, sensitive to others, loves being challenged etc.?These tests are just the worst example of junk science I've ever seen. As a chemist who does real science and develops real tests for things?If I?presented something this fundamentally flawed and simplistic I'd be mocked and jeered by my profession.But that is the difference between science and HR. We ostracize the quacks and HR it is tough when the whole profession is quackery. Don't they know that people are simply going to BS all of their answers on these tests?If they are stupid enough to spend money on these things then my guess is no. They are better off reading tea leaves or calling the nearest psychic.I've worked in staffing for a long time. When someone gives you a?personality test?after a 30 minute conversation they're indirectly saying "we don't want you". The personality test itself is impossible to understand for the test taker and usually giving way for a perfect excuse to pass on a candidate.?This has also happened to me on a handful of occasions. If they spoke with you for 30 minutes they have a good understanding of your personality. If they don't, then they need a new job. So, if this happens to you.. keep the search going.?I have a Bachelors in Psychology and have taken courses in?psychological tests?and measurements. The personality tests are parallel to Freud which is based off random assumptions.These tests aren't using our current knowledge of?neurology?and actual brain function. Personality tests are a scam to make money off purely random assumptions.. (and also a great thing to tell someone you don't want to hire)?On a side note: If the personality test is requested very early in the interview process their intentions are more legit. My point is when the personality test comes after they've already had an opportunity to get to know you.?Thanks and I hope this is helpful.I want to live in a nice studio or 1 bedroom apartment and have job that is very easy to do and get to afford a nice studio or 1 bedroom apartment. Im tired of living with my parents?its time?for me to grow up. I still live with my parents I'm taking 2 classes in college but chosen to do it online. Im working 2 retail jobs to save up. Because I would want to live by myself in a nice and safe studio and or 1 bedroom apartment.?What jobs that are honestly very simple to do and have a salary where you can live off to have your own place? Ill be 25 VERY soon its time for me to grow upI have a friend who's a personal trainer. She loves to work out, genuinely enjoys helping people, and gets paid well to do a job that she finds fun and easy. I would kill myself. Likely on a treadmill, if not by a self-inflicted wound because I would struggle with every part of her job. On the other hand, I love my job in accounting. I find it rewarding, get paid well, and look forward to going to work every day. My friend is very clear that on her first day doing my job, she would jump off of the parking deck head-first.My point is, you need to figure out where the overlap is between what you enjoy doing and what you intellectually excel at. This is the job that you should do. Once you figure out the vocation, you then need to figure out what you need to do in order to live the life you want to live. So while my friend probably couldn't afford her lifestyle by just working at a gym, she got certified as a trainer and nutritionist and makes great money from that. I have lots of options in accounting. Bookkeeping/GL, accounts payable/receivable, and payroll are all low-stress areas in my field that pay enough for what you're looking for, and typically require little to no overtime or extra certification/degrees.This is one of the best pieces of advice and guidance I have heard on here. Please do yourself a favor and listen to MainLineMommy's advice above. She has articulated what you should work toward. Don't just think in 'generic' terms like generally working at McDonalds is easy. Think in terms of what you may be more naturally good at and possibly even enjoy. Everyone has their own set unique gifts and skills which, if cultivated, can lead to something which is more enjoyable and even easier for them than someone else.?Part of the growing up process is to think first before taking any old job, explore possibilities, consider career options you are best suited for. Then make an informed decision working toward a goal whether that be a personal fitness trainer, accountant, etc...?If you simply need a basic job to live on your own while you figure all this stuff out, consider things like working at a market, nice restaurant, department store, etc... Check your local college's job placement center for local job postings for students. I got all kinds of jobs like that while in school. I have a bachelor's degree and five years of post college experience (about?ten years?total if you count everything prior to and during college). I've never been terminated or let go for any reason other than a downturn in business. In other words, I have a pretty spotless work history. Most people would probably say, "You're doing great!" or "You can go anywhere you want in your career".Why don't I feel this way? Every job I have ever done is completely different from any job I've seen offered in the field that I'm currently in. In other words, nothing I have done or am doing now is identical to the jobs that are being offered. It's frustrating, because Company A will want experience in XYZ when I only have experience in the jobs I've done or am currently doing and it might not be in XYZ. It's discouraging, to say the least.I know that companies are looking out specifically for their needs or wants, but from the prospective employee's standpoint, it causes an?obstacle?in their minds as to whether they are even qualified for the job.?I wish there were more concrete roles defined for a specific field or industry. Instead of companies?making up?highly specialized-sounding names for the positions they are offering, positions should be universally used across the industry. For example, if you are in?procurement, basic roles might include Buyer I, Buyer II, Buyer III, Lead Buyer, Supervisor, Manager, and so forth. Advanced roles might be Procurement Analyst I, Procurement Analyst II, Procurement Analyst III, and so forth. Companies could do this by creating job ads based solely on a set of skills they are looking for rather than specific types of experience. Skills are easily transferable; experience, on the other hand, is not so easily transferable. If I have?MS Excel?skills or price?negotiation?skills, chances are I can employ these in roles that will entail a slightly different experience than I've had before. But if you say that you're looking for someone with experience in a specific environment, you're basically eliminating several candidates from consideration. In many cases, people who could easily learn to employ their skill set in a new environment may be deterred from applying to the position in the first place, considering it a waste of time.IMO, this would make looking and applying for jobs based on past experience so much easier and far less frustrating. The emphasis should be on the skill set, not the past experience. Experience can be used to determine which level you're at. For example, a Buyer I might be for the procurement professional with 0-2 years of purchasing experience. Buyer II would be for the purchasing professional with 2-5 years of experience. And so forth...On a side note, all jobs should have a simple application process which?entails?an email or online submission of your resume and cover letter. Don't make me retype everything that's on my resume into an online form.Originally Posted by?Tekkie?I have a bachelor's degree and five years of post college experience (about ten years total if you count everything prior to and during college). I've never been terminated or let go for any reason other than a downturn in business. In other words, I have a pretty spotless work history. Most people would probably say, "You're doing great!" or "You can go anywhere you want in your career".Why don't I feel this way? Every job I have ever done is completely different from any job I've seen offered in the field that I'm currently in. In other words, nothing I have done or am doing now is identical to the jobs that are being offered. It's frustrating, because Company A will want experience in XYZ when I only have experience in the jobs I've done or am currently doing and it might not be in XYZ. It's discouraging, to say the least.I know that companies are looking out specifically for their needs or wants, but from the prospective employee's standpoint, it causes an obstacle in their minds as to whether they are even qualified for the job.?I wish there were more concrete roles defined for a specific field or industry. Instead of companies making up highly specialized-sounding names for the positions they are offering, positions should be universally used across the industry. For example, if you are in procurement, basic roles might include Buyer I, Buyer II, Buyer III, Lead Buyer, Supervisor, Manager, and so forth. Advanced roles might be Procurement Analyst I, Procurement Analyst II, Procurement Analyst III, and so forth. Companies could do this by creating job ads based solely on a set of skills they are looking for rather than specific types of experience. Skills are easily transferable; experience, on the other hand, is not so easily transferable. If I have MS Excel skills or price negotiation skills, chances are I can employ these in roles that will entail a slightly different experience than I've had before.?But if you say that you're looking for someone with experience in a specific environment, you're basically eliminating several candidates from consideration.?In many cases, people who could easily learn to employ their skill set in a new environment may be deterred from applying to the position in the first place, considering it a waste of time.IMO, this would make looking and applying for jobs based on past experience so much easier and far less frustrating.?The emphasis should be on the skill set, not the past experience.?Experience can be used to determine which level you're at. For example, a Buyer I might be for the procurement professional with 0-2 years of purchasing experience. Buyer II would be for the purchasing professional with 2-5 years of experience. And so forth...On a side note, all jobs should have a simple application process which entails an email or online submission of your resume and cover letter. Don't make me retype everything that's on my resume into an online form.I agree 100% with what is bolded and underlined. But of course there will be those that come along and say that you should do everything the employer wants in order to land a job. That includes jumping through 100 hoops and then when you get to the last hoop, there will be 100 more created. I guess if an employer wanted you to jump off a cliff, you should do that too.The bar just keeps being raised. It's why things will never change in this country. What about when all the baby boomers retire, who will these companies put in their place when all the entry level jobs require 2-5 years of experience? Will they train people? Would the really go out of business because they refuse to train people? You see how screwed up this is? I thought so.The will do exactly like they did with the financial meltdown or auto colapse they will continue to act in a short-sighted and idiotic manner until everything begins to colapse then look to the govt to?bail?them out because if you don't society will collapse.I'm finding this too, as someone looking to find new employment while currently employed.Through a series of experiences and contacts, I was able to secure a job in a field that's specialized. The skill set that I have is transferrable; however, the jobs that I see related to my current experience have such specific requirements. These employers basically want clones of the people in their organizations. There is something seriously flawed about that, and it will come back to bite them. Like a poster mentioned above, we are going to face some interesting times when in about 5 years, the baby boomers start retiring. How will companies fill their leadership positions if they are not getting the employees now and providing the experiences and skills they need to fill higher-level roles?Companies are short-sighted...execs are pressured to address current circumstances, not what's gonna happen down the line (because it might not even be their problem anymore at that point).Like I said in an earlier post, I went through hell to secure a decent job. Its just crazy to see how many hoops you're thrown in just to get a simple job."Instead of companies making up highly specialized-sounding names for the positions they are offering," agreed. Sometimes I didn't even know WHAT I was applying for exactly. My pet peeve is all the different computer programs they ask for experience in now. Seriously... I am familiar and fluent in almost 20 different types of?software?and programs... yet they still manage to make up another one I have NEVER heard of at least every couple of months. panies that do not interview for transferrable skillsets are missing the boat completely.Originally Posted by?joiseygirl732?I'm finding this too, as someone looking to find new employment while currently employed.Through a series of experiences and contacts, I was able to secure a job in a field that's specialized. The skill set that I have is transferrable; however, the jobs that I see related to my current experience have such specific requirements. These employers basically want clones of the people in their organizations.?There is something seriously flawed about that, and it will come back to bite them. Like a poster mentioned above, we are going to face some interesting times when in about 5 years, the baby boomers start retiring. How will companies fill their leadership positions if they are not getting the employees now and providing the experiences and skills they need to fill higher-level roles?Companies are short-sighted...execs are pressured to address current circumstances, not what's gonna happen down the line (because it might not even be their problem anymore at that point).I am having the same problem! I am trying to get a job in real estate. I have run my own brokerage on the side for 4 years, but because I've always had a full time job I haven't done hundreds of deals. I just went on an interview and they did not ask me one single question about my full time jobs. I have had progressively more difficult jobs with more?responsibility?and a lot of transferrable skills, yet they don't care all. It is ridiculous.?You'd think it would be an asset that I have a variety of experiences, but it seems like it's actually a problem. It sucks because I would be very good at the job I interviewed for (team lead), yet the company only wants me to come back again to interview for a regular agent job and I'm not really sure I want that position because it doesn't utilize any of my skill or experience. I know already that I will be totally bored in the agent position. It's very annoying.This is why people fudge their applications IMO- because at times it's impossible to have everything.IMO employers also try to screw people over a lot, make them think they are worth less than they are...drives me insane.I feel lucky to be employed a lot of times, but at the same time it really annoys me when I see a position at my own company (I've been here 9 months now), and when I express interest in it because it potentially means at least a 50% increase in pay and higher position, they tried to ask if I'd take a LATERAL transfer... um no? How about you pay me what I am actually worth? They said after a year they'd bump me up but I think that's just a ploy to squeeze every bit of money they can out of me without properly compensating me...I agree with the OP.Job descriptions have become a joke these days. "Must have 3 to 5 years experience designing door frames for blue?sedans?in a 6-sigma environment using Catia version 4.2." Yeah, great. So, how many people meet that requirement who don't already work for the company? That's right - nobody.I've been in the same boat as the OP:?Mechanical engineering?degree (graduated with honors), 10+ years of solid engineering experience, held clearances, etc. And you now what? Nobody cares. In the crazy, corporate world, I am only capable of doing 1 thing - what I did at my former job. I can't learn anything new, nor apply my experience to similar fields. I can't possibly learn a new?CAD?tool - nobody can every learn new software, right? And, as we all know, all quality management systems are soooooo different from each other. I mean, how could a person from TQM environment *ever* learn to work in a 6-sigma environment? Why, he might go crazy from the different?acronyms?and ship non-functioning parts! It's a joke - and just another way to filter out all the "undesirables" so they can be replaced with grads fresh out of college or visa workers... or, just outsource the job since no Americans are "qualified."I have read countless threads on this site placing 'Fit' and 'Soft Skills' on a?pedestal?during the employment interview, some even stating that they are of the same importance as actually being able to do the job properly.It is as if the corporate structure is some kind of inviolable religion where everyone must always be in agreement on all things.?In addition, every potential employee, from all levels of management, plus the technical, labor, and clerical ranks, must be able to prove their ability to 'think on their feet' and call up?trivia?pulled from their entire work history at the whim of any one of a dozen 'interviewers' that an applicant may have the misfortune of meeting while trying to achieve gainful employment.It doesn't seem to matter what the wages, from minimum on up, every employee must be an effective?presenter?'just in case', even if the position will never use those skills.?Heaven?help them if the haven't had a stint as a?securities?broker or used car salesman, because snake oil is the same as?gold?in these interviews.?Except...Foreign workers. Suddenly, corporate culture goes out the window, the need to effectively present anywhere and to anyone is tossed by the wayside, concerns about gaps in employment or reasons for applying with your company or even requiring that they be easily understood by your co-workers or customers evaporates.Does anyone believe the?multitude?of H-1B Visa techs, engineers, and programmers go through any of the hoops that are expected from their American born competitors? Companies don't care about anything but getting the?work done?when they can buy the labor at a discount on the world market.How about foreign tech support and customer service lines for American customers? Does anyone believe that foreign level one or level two tech support and customer services representatives could get a job in an American company based in the USA? The same position here requires clear, concise diction, and at least a familiarity with the product or technologies being discussed.How can people continue to defend the need for extremely high levels of soft skills that may only be needed on an occasional basis (and would then be within the employee's field of expertise) from Americans, when those same skills can be considered unnecessary if you get?foreign employees?at a large enough discount?Are there any big employers out there who are actually hiring? Specifically entry level positions that require a business degree?I've applied to hundreds of jobs in CT and the Austin TX area and I can't a get response with a well written cover letter and resume.?I can move anywhere in country (I want to stay in the southern warm states). I just want a job that isn't manual labor or service industry.I'm in the same boat, but I have a science degree. It seems that a degree means very little now, and companies will only consider you if you have at least a year of work experience in their field specifically. Getting an education is a waste of time, because it makes you overqualified for the only jobs available now: manual labor and service.I'm sure the OP is fully aware of the recession, as we all are. I think he/she was pointing out that they wouldn't want to settle for manual labor or a service job if they were the only jobs available. The recession has hit college grads pretty hard. A lot of us are graduating into this economy after having made a huge investment in our futures. Now, we're literally left with the scrap jobs, if that.?Some of the other posters on here suggest that we should take whatever job that we can to get experience. I'm just skeptical as to how much value experience doing some menial, mind-numbing job will have on your future?job hunt?in your specific field. For example, am I to believe that an accounting major who takes a job at McDonald's to pay the bills and have work experience is somehow going to find it easier to get an accounting job later on in his field simply because he worked? I certainly have no idea, but I am extremely skeptical of this way of thinking.I'm not claiming that newly minted college grads have it worse than any other particular group, I'm just saying I can empathize with these disgruntled grads when they are told these things.You know I am really having a hard time understanding (somewhat) corporate America's hestitance right now about entry level job openings. I understand that there is not alot of money ( perhaps) for companies to establish training programs for new grads, and those lacking specific experience. I am seeing jobs that are what is considered "entry-level" today that require one to two years experience, and even some that only require six months (??). What the point of just six months experience is I don't know, but I forsee a real problem down the road if companies do not begin hiring entry level workers.Those that are in the younger age groups with university degrees are going to be seriously disadvantaged--but at the same time, companies will have a shortage of workers that are qualified if the companies do not begin to hire for entry level positions and invest some money and training into the prospective workforce. I do not understand the logic at all about this lack of commitment, especially for the long term health of corporations and the American workforce. The good jobs that people have studied for-- not sales like "account management" and marketing which seem to be the most prevelant entry-level jobs; some people don't have the desire, interest or apptitude for sales. Especially with a crappy economy.I mean I'm 44, and attempting to make a career change after graduating with my degree, but I lack the experience that all of these companies require. I thought I was doing everything I needed to do to re-invent myself as a career changer but I'm up against the wall?. Frustrating and seriously lacking in foresight regarding corporate America. I really hope 2010 will be better, but I'm not so sure.I am starting to think this is very true.i just dont see companies hiring people anymore without specific experience in their industry.And IT has always had a big catch 22. Wont hire you unless you have experience, yet how do you get experience?Makes it nearly impossible to totally change career fields as an adult.unless you can afford to just take off and intern for free for a while.?Originally Posted by?edwardianlady?Although I have an employment record .I have no references.I hate it when an potential employeer forces you to put something down...when I have nothing.I'm with you edwardianlady. I'm assuming you are talking about professional references. Seems like it's hard to get in without any references even with employment history. I've had couple of references at?one point?but the longer you are out the less likely you will have any references. I no longer have any references at this point. Along with no references, a long employment gap due to no references doesn't sit well with employers.The only thing I got from Careerbuilder was spam and lots of it. It never mattered that I checked the box not to share my email.Careerbuilder is the herpes of the job ad market.Most other websites are all spam, spam, spam.Craglist and Careerbuilder are the top 2Monster is a JOKEHotjobs is a BIGGER JOKEI've noticed Craiglist is the best for skilled jobs are jobs that have a very high demand and low supply. It seems to connect you directly to the employer.I've noticed that Indeed gives the most consistently solid results.Originally Posted by?Colts?I've noticed that Indeed gives the most consistently solid results.My only issue with them is that they send job postings that were posted 2 days agoOriginally Posted by?TVandSportsGuy?My only issue with them is that they send job postings that were posted 2 days agoYeah, they do tend to post old jobs.Yeah if it's a job in my field and it's posted on Tuesday, If I depended on I wouldn't see it until Thursday.CareerBuilder was the best. Monster is a close second. I cancelled Indeed because they put personal information all over the web, not good. Indeed didn't even ask if they could publish personal information on the web. Bad biz in my opinion! Once I had indeed stop the wild practice my personal information has stopped showing up in Google searches...hmmmm go figure.INDEED. I LOVE INDEED.CB and Monster seem to be so spammy for some reason.I use Indeed and Craigslist. I got a few gigs on Craigslist, sales jobs for manufacturers or distributors, and I got a couple of retail gigs on Indeed. I find Craigslist more efficient, but the jobs have been gig-like, not careers.Indeed is the best IMO. I have found a wide variety of jobs listed in my area.For my field Indeed is the only one of them that is useful in terms of the big job boards, I get 3 geo locales emailed to me daily, and there are always new jobs listed. When I go to the site to search the US there is a large collection of jobs in my field that I find interesting, with links to apply.?It is second to field specific sites that I visit but has become a close second as it seems fewer employers now know about the field specific sites where jobs have been traditionally listed.I love Indeed's forums. You can get the low-down on certain companies or professions.I just learned yesterday that being a dental assistant is a horrible profession due to arrogant a-hole dentists. There is a great thread about what a crappy company Ethan Allen is to work for.Pop some popcorn and pull up a chair...Linkedin, Indeed, Dice, and Careerbuilder were overall the best for me when looking about 2 years ago. I work in IT, so sometimes it just depends on your industry.?When I had previously looked for other work seriously back around '06-'07, Careerbuilder was even better at that time. Monster was decent as well, but over time, some of that changes. I never found anything decent on Craigslist.It probably is a good idea to remove/modify your resume from Indeed, or some other site if you are not actively seeking. I appreciate someone pointing that out.Indeed is the best other than all the annoying baby sitting jobs that come in from . I don't know why you would put your resume on there though... I've never heard of an employer using Indeed for that purpose. I don't even have a login for Indeed. Back when I used to use it I just started plugging in searches. I'm not real big on putting a resume online in general especially with how all these companies like to data mine and farm people now.?Agencies farm resumes to look for contacts and company info. If they saw you worked for a company through another agency they try and contact this company and give them their sales pitch. Recruiters are always looking for info that's why they ask so many questions. It's not because they care..it's merely for selfish reasons.Originally Posted by?Rutt Roh?Regarding experience, you're right. Most legit employers are very picky and most times want to shoot for the stars when it comes to finding the 'right' person for the job.They are insane is more like it. I had an position where they rejected me because I worked on the same scientific instrument but from a different manufacturer than the one they are using.I think another part of it is they give a huge rediculously specific wish list to HR and HR ends up?screening?everybody out.A lot of employers are just plain unrealistic, think everyone is incapable of learning, or just too lazy to do any training at all.All of these sites have sux for me. The least bad would be . I posted my resume on both Monster and HotJobs and all I got was spam and stupid calls. Today's job market is insane and?corporations?have no morals or human kindness. I have a degree, experience, willing to take a pay cut yet nothing. I have gotten a few interviews but there is always something like "we went with someone who was a little bit of a better fit".Having said that, I agree with Mchelle that a good way to look for job is to think in which companies you are willing/interested in working for and visiting their website. Many companies are hiring this way. A few examples are UBS, Bank of America, Diageo, GE and Prudential. All of these have multiple locations in the US. It may be a good idea to keep the same?password?for all companies, I've got a lot of trouble forgetting them and then having to recall them.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?They are insane is more like it. I had an position where they rejected me because I worked on the same scientific instrument but from a different manufacturer than the one they are using.I think another part of it is they give a huge rediculously specific wish list to HR and HR ends up screening everybody out.A lot of employers are just plain unrealistic, think everyone is incapable of learning, or just too lazy to do any training at all.I most definitely agree. However, since we're in an employer's market, they can do whatever they want to do and be as selective as can be - even if that means holding out for several months or so to find the 'best fit' candidate, assuming the job doesn't have to be filled immediately. Looking at this from an employer's perspective though, I can see (although I do not necessarily agree with them) why they are being so picky:?1. there's not a shortage of applicants so they have the luxury of taking their time to pick and choose the right one?2. the last thing they want to do is choose the wrong candidate (or an unqualified one) and have to let them go early on because it'll be costly?3. additional training can amount to a lot of time/money spent per employee... that's why most times, there are very defined experience levels and skills that are required for most job postings.It's horrible, I know, but it's the current reality right now. I think most typical HR departments now are so understaffed and over-utilized that finding/interviewing the right candidates results in a much longer process. This is why even though you may be a qualified applicant, it may still take upwards to several months to hear a response back.?Quote:Originally Posted by?ambarstone?All of these sites have sux for me. The least bad would be . I posted my resume on both Monster and HotJobs and all I got was spam and stupid calls. Today's job market is insane and corporations have no morals or human kindness. I have a degree, experience, willing to take a pay cut yet nothing. I have gotten a few interviews but there is always something like "we went with someone who was a little bit of a better fit".Having said that, I agree with Mchelle that a good way to look for job is to think in which companies you are willing/interested in working for and visiting their website. Many companies are hiring this way. A few examples are UBS, Bank of America, Diageo, GE and Prudential. All of these have multiple locations in the US. It may be a good idea to keep the same password for all companies, I've got a lot of trouble forgetting them and then having to recall them.Sorry to hear that your experience with?job search engines?isn't going so well. Just understand that there are other ways than just job search engines. If you know the specific companies you would like to work for (obviously after having done research and assuming you're qualified), I'd personally apply through their website. I think there was a statistic posted out several months ago where it mentioned that of the total number of?job applicants?who used job search engines, only less than 10% of them found something decent and landed those positions.Especially now, I think it's important to?think outside of the box?other than what the vast majority of people are doing. I know it's easier said than done but there are a lot of helpful/insightful threads in this forum that tell you different ways of getting noticed by a potential employer. And using a job search engine typically ranks dead last in getting your foot in the door.?Hope things go better for you soon!I own my own business, along with 3 employees. I picked up and left Illinois in 2014. Within one year of moving my business, my revenue of my business increased, I pay no state income tax, bought a larger house for about 35% less than what I had in illinois and can afford a larger warehouse for my business along with other perks.?My life has changed dramatically for the positive ever since I left illinois .... my dollar stretches farther...To me, in illinois the Economy is/was sluggish... hard for people to find jobs (that I know)(college grads being unemployed), high taxes, high gasoline prices , some businesses and a lot of restaurants were slow and dead.Its basically the opposite here.. thats what attracts so many people to move out...Plus the weather sucks..I do miss the Pizza, Portillos (which i have shipped here), and a few other food places. Other than that.. I don't have much to say.?Illinois does have its perks though in some areas... but not enough to put food on the tableThe only Midwestern states that added more than 100k residents from 2010 to 2015 were Minnesota and Indiana. They have different approaches. MN is Canada South with socialist policies and a highly educated population. Indiana is a Southern State in Northern clothing with low taxes and business friendly policies but a less educated population.?I think taxes are the big thing that hurt Illinois. Many people avoid high property taxes eating into their meager retirement income by selling their house and then moving to a low cost area. Property tax alone in a place like Chicago costs more than a mortgage payment + property tax + insurance in a cheaper area. Businesses are more likely to located or expand in states with less regulation and taxation.How hard is it to get a job at the Office of the Governor working as a State Employee? What are the processes one has to go through to get one of those jobs??Illinois state employees' salaries seems to be even higher than Federal employees' salaries. I though state employee salaries are lower than Feds.?Are these state employee jobs as secure as Federal employee jobs?If you do not live in Illinois, or if you are not an IL Vet, the odds of employment are not very good. Be sure to read the?Special Notice?at the top of the website very carefully before submitting your application.?Work 4 Illinois - State of Illinois Employment OpportunitiesI'm a state employee. It can be difficult to get a state job. Your best bet is to have a skill that the state needs but has a hard time finding. I got in originally as a computer programmer. I am currently an account technician I. If you can pass the test for an account technician I you are almost assured a state job. The state has a hard time filling these positions.That said, let me tell you that I hate my job. All I do is process invoices all day. The good thing is that I can bid on other jobs to get something that I like more.There are other options but I don't have time to go into it right now. Good luck.Im an ex-Illinois Democrat... I have learned that the party is clearly to corrupt to maintain itself, and the local politicians in my district only continue to turn me more conservative every day. With that said, Chicago literally controls Illinois politics and normally they choose a democrat. The rest of the state is much more conservative, and in the past has even tried to break off and form their own state that excludes Chicago.On a tangent the Republicans here in Illinois really aren't any better then the democrats, just as corrupt heck one of them is in jail right now. It just goes to show you the mess Illinois is in politically.What is everyones experience with attending job fairs? Do you find them useful, or a waste of time? I've only ever been to a few, and in my experience the majority of companies that go to these things are cold call sales "jobs" that pay exclusively based on commission, direct sales companies like the popular MLM firms like Amway, Avon, Pampered Chef etc., or companies that refer you to their website to apply, who don't actually have any positions available. The only successful job fairs I've ever see are ones that are being held directly at the business that is hiring.?So are the job fairs you hear about on the radio being held at your local convention center or college campus largely scams? Has anyone had any luck at these things?I've heard they are a waste of time.They are. It is full of staffing agencies, for profit rip-off colleges, and insurance companies (and other MLM's) and HR people from legitimate companies handing out pens and water bottles telling you to apply online. Waste of time.i had really good luck at job fairs. it's better if it directly relates to your industry and is sponsored by your college. if it is sponsored by some weird company, it's probably not that great.?job fairs are good for practicing interviewing, and everyone appears so happy to see prospective workers. yes, the jobs usually are not the best, but they offer stepping stones to better jobs.?it works best if you see companies you like on the list and could gain some insider information and even confidence in applying.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?They are. It is full of staffing agencies, for profit rip-off colleges, and insurance companies (and other MLM's) and HR people from legitimate companies handing out pens and water bottles telling you to apply online. Waste of time.My experience as well.You left out professional resume writing companies offering one a free evaluation of your resume. Yeah, like they really care and are going to give you an honest assessment. Please.?It's nothing but a sales booth.Check to see if any companies that you are interested in are going to be there, and if there are, go on each companies website and apply so when you meet the reps at the fair you can ask about the job.You can also ask them when they post jobs so you'll know the best times to apply.Sometimes it's a waste of time, but every so often you can get a lead on a job.I have been to job fairs as a job seeker as well as an employer. My old company goes to atleast 3 job fairs every year to different universities & hires new grads. We even found experienced employees at the university job fairs who did not graduate from the university so they had to pay a fee to get in. If we liked the candidate then we would tell them to apply through the website so that their information is logged into our database & we kept a copy of the resume to give it in person to the HR. We would sort them out based on experience & rated them on different levels before calling them for interviews. Few fell through the cracks because its a competitive job market. We even hired interns through these fairs & if they were interested in working full time after graduation, we considered them as well. So job fairs are not a waste of time. Its a great way to get your resume out there & meet the hiring companies face to face.How is that any different from just applying to the job opening without going to the job fair? (which I'll assume is posted on a job board since all applicants have to apply online anyway)Originally Posted by?MPowering1?Shows seriousness about getting a job instead of just sitting at a computer?Face time with someone who counts?The opportunity to tell the person more about yourself?A chance to ask questions about any opportunities that may be available??Just off the top of my head - I'm sure there are more benefits.I don't often agree with you MPowering1 as I tend to lean more towards employee rights while you are more of a company man, but as my post above states I find it very helpful to interact with hiring managers in person. If you are a competent individual, a face-to-face is to your advantage.I think it depends on the type of job fair it is..?Something that has 50 companies there.. Probably a waste of time.. Because most likely, they're getting something from the county/school/whoever is hosting it to be there, and they're really not looking for people.If, however, a company hosts a job fair.. That means they're actively looking for people to fill spots.. You have a real good chance of landing a job at that company.. The bad news is.. Most times any company doing their own job fairs to fill their jobs.. There's a reason that they can't get and keep people through 'normal' methods.An example of the latter.. Here in SC, Samsung has a call center, run by Alorica.. They have job fairs about every other week.. That's because they can't get people to stay. Then they're short staffed, and do forced overtime.. which causes the people they have to leave, which means they have to have a job fair to fill all those positions.. Churn and burn through employees.Overall.. I tend to agree that job fairs are a waste of time if you're looking for a long term job.. However.. There are some that are worthwhile for a job between jobs.I've been on both sides and represented our company at a job fair last year. Personally, it's not worth the effort as an employer. We received over 700 resumes, line was always 10 deep and we also had a drop box for folks that couldn't wait in line.?When we found a good candidate we flagged the resume and gave them a card with the specific job link to apply on line.?On the down side, I saw a major Fortune 500 company pull in over 1500 resumes and an equel number of business cards. At the end of the 3rd day, they dumped everything in the recycle bin, save a select few. Off the record, thier manager told me that they only attend to fill thier "Community Involvement" responsibilities. Was in poor form dumping them on the campus grounds, but these folks really didn't care. Thier management jobs are filled by word of mouth and thier manufacturing jobs were all filled off the internet.?Overall, would not classify them as a waste of time. They are a great place to network and develop leads.Originally Posted by?wevie?Not at my college. They fairs they have there have real business recruiters from the major corporations and companies in the area.?Not a waste of time at all.Well at my last college job fair the only company listed as wanting to talk to science majors was Aerotek "lowball" Scientific.The last job I got was from a job fair, and my spouse's main job is from a job fair 2.5 years ago.A few things:~GO ARMED WITH MANY COPIES OF YOUR RESUME. BUT, be prepared to be told to "apply to, and post your resume online" as well...they may NOT take your written resume, but MAY take it to have the reference name and info to PULL the electronic one off the computer if they are "impressed" with you in person that day!~If you have them, go armed with your written/signed references. They probably won't ask, but they WILL wantg to follow up on whom you list for references.~Take whatever literature or brochure/pamphlet offerings they have pertaining to a job at a place you'd LIKE to work at, OR a JOB you'd like. You don't have to go to every table/company if it doesn't pertain or interest you. Take the literature so you can brush upon the company/job info so IF you get an interview, you have some more information about it.~DO check out some "alternative jobs' you might qualify for..it MIGHT suit you, that is how my spouse got the current job...and LOVES it.~Don't be afraid to ask for the person's name, job title, address at the company, and ask if you may contact that person AFTER the job fair. Then you can send a thank you note, too. If they have your written resume and get a thank you from you, they are sure to remember you!~GO EARLY and stay late if need be!~Naturally dress to kill, should not need to be said. You never get that second chance at that first impression, and remember there are a LOT of first impressions they get there the day of the fair, you want to stand out...GOod LUck!I don't bother with them. I did back in the 90s, but even then it was like the pre-internet version of . Your resume went into a black hole, but through actual hands that were indifferent to you.College career fairs are good and a maybe one other are good too though I never actually found a job from the fairs. Mostly, not even interviews because some people are super pushy at these fairs and will hijack conversations or cut in line. It's just not for me and the juice isn't worth the squeeze.?Most of the fairs I've been to though suck as they only have maybe 15 companies, 5 schools and maybe 5 of the companies are truly good but was promoted as having 30 companies. Most are MLM firms or entirely commissioned sales jobs. Safe to say, these are even worse when it comes to the juice coming from the squeeze. I never find job prospects from these fairs at all.I will disagree job fairs are a waste of time. You will notice a wide array of prospective employers, staffing agencies, service opportunities and educational opportunities. Some may attract your interest, some may not. Know what you want to do, what you capable of doing, and what will it take to better yourself for career advancement.It dependson size. I suggest do your homework and figure out if there are a handful of companies you want to go work for. As I said, a number of them are largely MLM and schools with a gem or two out 15/20 companies. If it is a larger sized one, you run the chance of finding many more gems that make it worthwhile but I'd still do your homework on the fair to find out what companies will he there and if enough align with you. If it's only one or two, seriously think, if it's worth it.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?They are. It is full of staffing agencies, for profit rip-off colleges, and insurance companies (and other MLM's) and HR people from legitimate companies handing out pens and water bottles telling you to apply online. Waste of time.I went to one and that pretty much describes it. But there were some staff representing government jobs, teaching, border patrol etc. Some legit decent career jobs amidst a bunch of junk.?So it was interesting to pick some of their brains about these positions. One HR woman representing a local school district told me they were desperate for substitute teachers... things like that.?But seeing who's hiring, learning more about the job/pay, and perhaps getting a connection to follow-up with it wasn't a complete waste of time. But I probably wouldn't bother.I have found very little success at them. Even back in college, the recruiters there were mostly for shady outfits.Funny how someone mentioned for-profit colleges. Every random for-profit college that you've probably never heard of will be there. Guaranteed! Haha.?These companies/schools get some cheap advertising too if it's a large fair. Think about it, you're just paying to staff a booth with 2-4 people and you get hundreds of foot traffic.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?They are. It is full of staffing agencies, for profit rip-off colleges, and insurance companies (and other MLM's) and HR people from legitimate companies handing out pens and water bottles telling you to apply online. Waste of time.Pretty much. I had a few that let me give them a resume but it obviously didn't work out because I never heard anything back unless they were one of those weird numbers on my cell but I check the numbers online to see who is calling. There's just not enough that aren't online applications. Even with the temp jobs they tell you to go to the website.The local job fairs are free but I wouldn't really consider them free because you waste the time and fuel money going out there. I don't think the college I went to ever had a job fair. They never said anything about it. It's a for profit college so I guess consider the source.Originally Posted by?mkpunk?I'm guessing career services wasn't that good at all getting the word out or your professors didn't help the matter. I'm sure it did but I guess the message didn't go out enough.All I saw were mentors and a career counselor and I found those on my own. When I mentioned to the helpline before that I was having trouble with getting a job they didn't even tell me about this which I think is stupid because sometimes you miss these things when you feel lost. It's not like it was in plain sight. The only relevant mentor they had was a joke. Like I said before she never got back to me. I did finally find the career counselor. They made a resume for me and talked with me some but that was really it. The personalized sessions with them are limited just like the other counseling they offer and their live chat counseling doesn't even work anymore. I think I was only allowed 3 appointments. They emailed me a few job leads but I would have found that on my own. So yeah basically the only specialized/outside help you get is making your resume with you..nothing that would make you further than someone who didn't have college. Yet I'm still getting emails about my loan being due.Job fairs are good for practicing job interview skills and getting free stuff especially ink pens and cups. Occasionally, you can get a job attending one.Even with my own lengthy career when there was an economy and jobs, I personally found job fairs to be a waste of time. Someone mentioned networking at them and it just didn't pay for me to attend. There must be a reason (good or bad) for them but I have no idea what that reason might be.Success with a job fair depends on a lot of things (skill sets, competitiveness of job market, etc.), but like others noted they are a good networking opportunity with employees from your target company to get a foot in the door. You'll likely find the most success with smaller companies, as a job fair is a serious financial investment for them to get qualified candidates. They frequently will have hiring managers and even executives attend to get value from the job fair. Larger companies are usually looking to fill specific roles and will want candidates who check all the boxes. They will generally only send out recruiters who are trying to fill their requisitions.I ended up getting a job due to attending a job fair and handing my resume to the recruiter. It was Verizon Wireless. The job fair I went to had legit companies and I handed my resume out to most of them (most were customer service, call center, etc) and VZW called me back about 2 days later. I ended up staying there about 4 years.I'd scope out the fair if it were me, to make sure that legit companies are going to be in attendance. If it's a lot of MLM, staffing companies, etc I wouldn't waste my time.One has to realize, that jobs can be had through job fairs. But the big problem, is finding the right booth where that company is looking for people with your exact skills, and education. Maybe one in every 500 people that approach a booth meets their needs. That exact match, they spend time with. If you are not a match for the skills and education they are looking for, then they do not have time for you except to give you a pen. If you want to give them a resume they will tell you to apply online.Let me give you a success story that happened to a niece.Her high school taught Chinese as one of the languages they had to offer. She was a senior, taking her fourth year of Chinese. She was one young American White Girl that could pick up reading and writing the language.She went to one of the biggest and very hard international company to get a job with, and asked if they ever hired Chinese speakers. They called over one of the staff that spoke Chinese. He talked to her for a while in Chinese, and called over a Vice President who was in the building.Before the day was over, they had hired this young girl telling her she was the best Chinese speaker they had seen in a long time. They hired her part time while she was a senior. They paid for her college education to get her business degree, and paid her a salary. When she got out, she was full time at a very high salary. She has been to China many times in the last 10 years, for her company, and with government trade delegations. She has an office, and secretary but no one working for her, and no bosses. She is used where they need her at the time. She may be reviewing contracts written in Chinese, reading technical papers that they need to understand and/or translating them into English, or the other way around. She is kept busy, and leads a very interesting life. In addition she is very highly paid, with great benefits. They make sure she is kept happy, as they can't afford to lose her.If the right person applies for a job at a job fair, they get hired. The problem is that so many people go there looking for jobs, often not having the qualifications for jobs they are interested in. As if a good job is advertised today, there will be 500 and more applications. Only about 10 or 15 people are even qualified for the job. Same for job fairs. The company is there looking for a certain person with the right qualifications, and can't take the time to talk to all the other people that go to the booth. If they don't have a job you match the qualifications for, they will give you a pen and maybe tell you to apply online as they try to rush you off so they can keep looking for the exact person they are looking for.?At the end of the job fair, they will almost always have found the person they went to the fair to find. It is an expensive way to find the right help, but when looking for specialized people it is often the best and only way to find them.?Companies would not have booths at job fairs, it they did not find they paid off finding specialized people.?Just because job fairs have not paid off for you, does not mean that they do not pay off for a lot of people. When you go to a job fair, look for companies that would be the most apt to need your specialized talents. My niece went to one as a high school student, and ended up getting a free ride to college along with a salary, and a permanent high paid interesting job. Many others have done the same thing.I have never had success with job fairs. They are complete waste of time. I remember people telling me, oh yeah I will forward this to our nutrition dept. or I will let HR know and they would write on it. One lady even recognized me as I jumped from location to location of a job fair said she wanted to help me get a job, by that point I had other offers. No longer can you go pound the pavement and pass out your resume. As has been mentioned, you have to apply online.Lol people get dressed up,bring resumes, stand on long lines only to be told to apply online. It's a complete waste of timeGeneral job fairs are aimed toward the type of people belowrecent college gradsex-offenderspeople with limited educationpeople with small work historyolders workersAgreed. good ones and bad ones. Mainly the only jobs I saw were home healthcare & service industry jobs and sales jobs. factory jobs. Neither of which I was qualified for. If you think about sales though, this might be a good place to start.I went to a few when I was still job-hunting, and yes, they were a waste of time.?Specifically, nothing was offered for individuals who needed full-time work to support themselves and/or families.One example that comes to mind was Avon; another was a telemarketing service that only paid small commissions and no actual plete waste unless you are either entry level and want to rent cars or sell uniform services............... OR are damn desperate.I think they serve some value for those who need practice in short elevator type discussions. Sometimes they offer some classes on job hunting skills too. As far as finding an actual job, not really worth it. If you are young I would advise for you to go check a few out if for no other reason to get a little experience introducing yourself.In many cases I've found them to be a waste of time, even in college.Yes.Yeah I've been to one and as many have already said it was a waste of time.Originally Posted by?deposite?In many cases I've found them to be a waste of time, even in college.That's because there are about 20 available openings at these job fairs and 1000 people show up. Which means it was a waste of time for 980 people.I went to one at my MBA program a few years ago.It was a complete waste. They had eliminated much of the riff-raff (Amazon, Vector/Cutco) that do direct sales pyramid schemes. However, they brought in tons of companies that would send 3-4 employees to stand there and tell people "please go to our website and apply". Complete waste. The food was mediocre. I took a whole bunch of pens so I would at least be getting some compensation for my wasted gas.All in all, the only decent job fairs are the ones that have on the spot interviews and they are only a good option for people that are:1. Desperate for a job2. Have a $12/hour talent or better3. Are willing to sell that talent for $8/hourBTW, we had about 30 to 40 companies signed up for the event. There were tons of job seekers. I doubt anyone got a job from the event. Major companies, like Lockheed Martin, sent down managers getting 6 figures per year to say "Apply on our website". Massive waste of resources for both the company and the job seeker.Be very suspicious of any place that wants to offer a job in those events because it is usually the pyramid marketing scheme.Job fairs for me are a mixed bag. In my experience , you get the sales pitch but after the pitch its "we are not collecting resumes atm, please apply online". I do not need to drive XX number of miles and dress up in my suit to only be told to "apply online". That being said I would not swear off job fairs all together for instance the university job fairs seem to be more productive than non-university fairs.Originally Posted by?billydaman?I think they serve some value for those who need practice in short elevator type discussions. Sometimes they offer some classes on job hunting skills too. As far as finding an actual job, not really worth it. If you are young I would advise for you to go check a few out if for no other reason to get a little experience introducing yourself.The classes are typically good but that's it. Most companies are staffing and you may find gems with government work or a legit job but most are apply online, apply online, apply online. Many of us do just that but it don't do the trick.I think job fairs are indeed a waste of time.The reason companies even have them in the first place is for PR value..they are merely a form ad advertisement.Any company that holds a job fair already has many channels and methods firmly in place with which to seek and find prospective employees.Besides, even if you talk to one of the HR people at a job fair and have what you think is "a good interview" it still boils down to they're gonna ask you to go home and fill out an app online! So...again: exactly what is the point.Especially in this age of the Internet you can also find out anything you wish about any company--this used to be a potential reason for going to them, but now even that reason is not a good one as it can be done by other means.In over 20 years in the workplace I have never gotten a job from a Job Fair, nor have known anyone who has.Again: they are PR tools for the companies, folks. Don't buy into their propaganda. They are totally self-serving. I also believe the companies get some sort of tax break if they can say they did any type of community aid for employment.p.s.---.I signed off this post and then just came back, as I thought of something to add. It might even be Harmful to your chances of getting a job by going to a Job Fair, as they are mostly comprised of truly desperate job seekers, and also under-qualified ones. The companies that hold the fairs know this. Far, far more impressive to them is people who already HAVE a job.The best job-finding tip I ever heard was, "Get?a?job so you can get THE job."ast few I went to for a "tech fair" included multi level marketing companies,mcdonalds,telemarketing companies. total waste of anyones time.With very few exceptions they're a waste of time.?There's also the issue with the mass un-shredded disposal of paper applications after such events. Imagine the delight of being the cunning identity thief sitting outside in the parking lot when 1,000 full applications are carelessly tossed into the dumpster.?Originally Posted by?Der Vogel?I think job fairs are indeed a waste of time.The reason companies even have them in the first place is for PR value..they are merely a form ad advertisement.Any company that holds a job fair already has many channels and methods firmly in place with which to seek and find prospective employees.Besides, even if you talk to one of the HR people at a job fair and have what you think is "a good interview" it still boils down to they're gonna ask you to go home and fill out an app online! So...again: exactly what is the point.Especially in this age of the Internet you can also find out anything you wish about any company--this used to be a potential reason for going to them, but now even that reason is not a good one as it can be done by other means.In over 20 years in the workplace I have never gotten a job from a Job Fair, nor have known anyone who has.Again: they are PR tools for the companies, folks. Don't buy into their propaganda. They are totally self-serving. I also believe the companies get some sort of tax break if they can say they did any type of community aid for employment.p.s.---.I signed off this post and then just came back, as I thought of something to add. It might even be Harmful to your chances of getting a job by going to a Job Fair, as they are mostly comprised of truly desperate job seekers, and also under-qualified ones. The companies that hold the fairs know this. Far, far more impressive to them is people who already HAVE a job.The best job-finding tip I ever heard was, "Get?a?job so you can get THE job."How much do job fairs help the unemployed? | Are job fairs really worth your time? | USA TODAY CollegePretty much the above articles summarize that job fairs aren't that effective. I suspect there's something beneficial to companies participating in job fairs as you state.?When everything is done online these days, by the time one goes to a job fair, hundreds if not thousands of applications and resumes were probably already sent to the company. So you're already many steps behind, if you go to a job fair and never even tried to apply to any of the companies online. So why a company in general would even need a job fair to find qualified applicants is beyond me. There's definitely something in it for the companies whether tax break or good PR or whatever. Nothing is ever done out of 'altruism.'But I can see the benefits of job fairs for specific companies and industries. Like one of the articles above talks about an insurance company that looks for sales people at job fairs. In those cases, I think actually seeing an applicant and how they present themselves in person, may be a better way of screening people than an online application. You can see what their personality and energy level is like, if they really want to get into sales or just want any job.I am pretty sure that in most cases a job fair is just "a free day" for HR, for the recruiters. I mean it is a paid day away from the office, free food perhaps especially if you are going to a University- I mean hell what is not to like? In all likelihood you are not going to interview anyone on the spot, probably you won't even take their resume, you will listen to the job seeker's pitch, shake their hand, give your sales pitch to the job seeker and at the end of day tell them to apply online anyway. I mean really from an employer's from a recruiter's point of view a job fair is win-win.Bottom of the barrel?I've already posted the pros of my experiences with job fairs. Finding FTE through a fair unfortunately was after attending 15+ of them though.It is true that if you wanted a job, you probably would've already gotten one through direct networking, and how employers do know that those who attend job fairs are more so the bottom of the barrel. However, given how companies still can't fill certain positions, they do use career fairs. Especially for positions that are difficult to fill and you need all the exposure you can get (e.g. requires a Masters, 10+ years of experience, a suite of certs, and/or top secret clearance). The?irony here for the employers?is that these such folks with such credentials probably would've already had a job, and wouldn't be bothering with career fairs anyways. It's certainly a shot in the dark for both parties, but just like looking for work itself, you still need to keep trying.I've been to waaay too many career fairs.?I have had a couple of instances where I've witnessed some superstars looking for work at one. The guy in front of me looks good on paper. The recruiter calls a more senior person over, the 2 of them talk, and they ask the candidate to schedule an interview on the spot. Another case, the guy in front of me got approached by another company whose booth he visited. Same deal here, they asked the info and secured what they needed to to schedule an interview ASAP. These guys are obviously the exception than the norm.Apply online...?Especially gov't jobs and related... by law, they're not allowed to take hardcopies of resumes (I've had several job search seminars tell me this). They can only process those that get sent online.?Also, when folks take hardcopies of resumes, all they do is spend an enormous amounts of time scanning them into their database anyways.?By sending them a soft copy instead, they cut out the middleman and save lots of time and effort there.?There was a story how one company, the recruiter made a lot of annotations and notes on the resumes she received. When she walked out with the big stock of them, she slipped and they fell into a puddle??That seemed like it was for nothing.When they do take your physical resume, they'll make notes knowing they have your details (e.g. salary range, relo package, specific skills, time frame to find work), but in order to be considered, you still need to be in their database, so you're encouraged to apply online! I know this sucks and seems to defeat the purpose of going, but...1) at least I can find out about companies that I would've missed online. Sometimes they're small companies which doesn't have an online presence, or it's so small you're hard pressed to find it since it gets swallowed by the other companies on the internet.2) Plus, you can try to leverage visiting to your advantage. Like when writing a cover letter for the position you're applying to, mention that you spoke with such and such, about what positions, and any details you've learned (or would like to)3) Sometimes, they'll tell you about new positions that they haven't posted online, or will. If it's 8+ months in the pipeline, that's too long (although you should keep them in mind if you still can't find work by then). If it's only a few months away, you'll know to apply for it as soon as the listing gets posted on their careers page.Quote:Originally Posted by?dazeddude8?I am pretty sure that in most cases a job fair is just "a free day" for HR, for the recruiters. I mean it is a paid day away from the office, free food perhaps especially if you are going to a University- I mean hell what is not to like? In all likelihood you are not going to interview anyone on the spot, probably you won't even take their resume, you will listen to the job seeker's pitch, shake their hand, give your sales pitch to the job seeker and at the end of day tell them to apply online anyway. I mean really from an employer's from a recruiter's point of view a job fair is win-win.In some cases, it can be a PR stunt. In other cases, they need to find employees. I've never done this before, but it can't be fun to stand on your feet for 3 to 8 hours at a time. Especially feel for the ladies that need to do this in heels (in college, I've seen many female attendees have to take multiple breaks after standing and walking around in heels for hours). Just like how career fair attendees need to send out thank you notes and apply to positions they were pointed to, these folks need to go back and process the resumes (scanning, or otherwise analyzing them). Even if not this task, they still need to get back to their usual work.I've been to numerous job fairs it seems. Every time I went, there is very few that I would have missed online. The only ones I've missed online are ones I wouldn't have been able to work for anyway. I've never seen them say anything about positions that they haven't put out.2 could work if you're a sociable person. I think that's what job fairs are for: sociable people. People who have trouble communicating verbally wouldn't be able to get somewhere with a job fair.Last but not least, be selective about the job fairs you go to! I avoided ones that weren't my industry, like nursing, but went to ones with computer jobs. I've also learned to avoid the bad ones (poor selection of employers, and one of the job fairs even cancelled twice without a notice). Avoid the ones that are too far away (if over 45 minutes, then I'd have to make an exception, like go there for the city too), or being hosted in an area that has poor parking (I gave up circling around an underground parking garage for 15 minutes).If it's too general, then you do get MLM companies or MLM-like (one place, LegalShield had 2 booths on opposite ends to attract more folks). Also local work like selling insurance, Home Depot, Panera Bread, banks (and yes, these are all sales or MW positions, not in corporate). I've also seen National Guard recruiting.Quote:Originally Posted by?Der Vogel?p.s.---.I signed off this post and then just came back, as I thought of something to add. It might even be Harmful to your chances of getting a job by going to a Job Fair, as they are mostly comprised of truly desperate job seekers, and also under-qualified ones. The companies that hold the fairs know this. Far, far more impressive to them is people who already HAVE a job.The best job-finding tip I ever heard was, "Get?a?job so you can get THE job."Unfortunately (and hiring companies should be aware of this too), those who already have a job aren't likely to attend a job fair. There are exceptions though... a person's project is going to be done or lost soon, so time to be looking again. A woman I overheard said she's been with her job for a bit now, but for the past few years, she hasn't gotten any raises, and her commute is 1.5 hours one way. She pretty much doesn't interact with her son at all due to the time constraints and being tired.Also ran into a company that provides cybersecurity training. The woman's heart sank when I told her I was out of work. Turns out, the cost of these cybersecurity training courses was $2K to $5K. In other words, most of their business is from getting companies to pay for individuals' training.Quote:Originally Posted by?Bruce Jackpot?Funny how someone mentioned for-profit colleges. Every random for-profit college that you've probably never heard of will be there. Guaranteed! Haha.?These companies/schools get some cheap advertising too if it's a large fair. Think about it, you're just paying to staff a booth with 2-4 people and you get hundreds of foot traffic.I was at a job fair about 3 years ago. Fairly small room. You can stand on one corner and for the most part, see what's going on in the opposite corner. There were 3 booths, one of each.. Trident Univ., Strayer Univ., and the 3rd one was perhaps Phoenix or Devry? You get the idea. They were in a room filled with tech companies and a few companies that do machinery. Furthermore, many of the attendees were in the late 40s and beyond. I overheard them talking saying these guys have 10 to 20+ years experience. They're doubtful these "higher learning" places can give them any genuine leg up in the competition. Furthermore, they have bills to pay. They can't be taking 8 to 16 months to attend courses, pay for those, while not getting any income in the meantime (on top of not getting anything out of them).?So being able to monitor these 3 booths from anywhere in the room....?they had not one single visitor! An hour prior to the job fair being done, they left early. May as well cut their losses and beat traffic. I actually had interest in talking with them, but ONLY after I gotten through all the other companies.Originally Posted by?ackmondual?There are always many more out there. It's hard to be thorough. If you'd care to share your process of how you can miss so few, that'd be nice.As for not being a sociable person, you need a minimum level of that to get through most in-person and telephone interviews. If you're not any sort of that, then you're probably in trouble anyways, short of someone hooking you up for work without going through the interview processNot really a process. My area just doesn't have much so the job fairs have never been different. Also I check online constantly by using search engine.Yeah that's the problem. There is no way in if you don't know how to sell yourself. I'm sure I'd be fine once I got the job since being in a job is working on a team so you don't have to put yourself out there as much. Not all the positions would be sociable anyway. I could be a cashier if they had that...just have to say "have a good day" and "your total is ____".I'd be fine with working at home if that's what I needed to do but I can't find any work at home jobs that aren't primarily phone. The only other option is freelancing.I went to my college fairs several times and saw the companies there: Honeywell, Google, Intel, Johnson & Johnson, JPMorgan, basically all the fortune 100 companies fighting over you. Even then, I thought it was a waste of time because I only ever got few calls. But then I realized I was doing it wrong.?A job fair is not a part of a formal job application process. It's a networking event. Once I realized this, they became extremely valuable. I keep in touch with many of the managers I met at college fairs years ago on a regular basis. And while they aren't the jobs I applied to, they often keep me updated about openings.These days I feel you are better off networking with the other attendees than you are with the "employers" themselves. Many of the candidates at job fairs do have many years of invaluable experience and often have held some pretty impressive positions at well known companies. Granted there is the other end of the spectrum as well, but many of the older candidates do have some pretty impressive backgrounds and experience.?But yes, for the most part a job fair these days is mostly a waste of time. Usually filled with a bunch of 24 year olds working booths for a few for-profit online colleges, maybe some random insurance company, a staffing agency, a few MLM firms, and perhaps a commission's job selling investment products to people who can't afford to invest anyway.?The only good thing is that the job fairs gets me out of the house, around other people, and helps me to add to my already impressive collection of pens. You're probably better off filling out an application at the hotel front desk, than you are "interviewing" with a bunch of 24 year olds who are probably looking for other jobs on the dl themselves lol.Hello to all,?I'm a 23 year old college student who will be graduating in December, but can not, for the life of me, find a job. I have been searching for front desk jobs, serving jobs, hostessing jobs, and semi-professional jobs, but have yet to get interviewed or hired.On October 29, it will be four months since I last worked. I am sure it's my experience that's holding me back: I've mostly worked as a banquet server since 2012 (my first job) and have ceased from working as one in 2015- all through staffing agencies, which was very convenient for me and my school schedule. I also worked as a barista through one of the agencies. In addition, I had a three month stint as a hostess (my last job). I resigned because my father needed around the clock care four due to a hemorrhagic stroke. I'm currently looking into some internships to make me a better competitor in the job market- one being at a convention center. What can I do to make employers take a chance on me? I have rewritten my resume to tailor it to each job. I thrown away the tired, cliche paragraph openers for one that acknowledges the companies success in their industry. Example, I acknowledged a Restaraunt for being a nominee of a prestigious James Beard award. I carefully proofread for spelling and grammatical errors. I relate my experience to the qualifications they are looking for in both my cv and resume. I use keywords in my resume. I have darn near used every suggestion to get me noticed by employers, but nothing has happen. I'm this close to skipping graduation, selling everything, and taking the next bus to a city that's booming with jobs. Any help or suggestions please! I could also use some success stories to keep me going.I applied for a job, did 2 phones interviews, and 2 skype interviews. They were fine with no in person since it was out of state. Throughout the process they asked me my desired salary and I did research on the COL in the new area, plus the average pay for the position in the area. Keep in mind I HAD to provide a salary range. They said if you don't provide it then thank you for applying. It had it on the actual application and they even asked me in an interview. I stated in the 60s, depending on the total compensation package offered (benefits, cost of insurance etc...).Got a call yesterday saying Congratulations!!!! We'd like to offer you the job at a rate of $37,200!! They said when can you start. I literally couldn't speak for a few seconds. I asked if they recalled my asking for the 60s and they said, "Well $37.2k is just the salary, when you take all the benefits into account you are being paid well in to the 60s and even higher!!".?I never knew some companies when they ask you what salary you want, want you to include all the cost of insurance they are covering etc... If this was the case I should have asked for the low 100s. And this is a mid career type of position for a somewhat specialized skill. It's not an entry level position at all and actually has the word senior in the title. It is a lower cost of living area but people in the area are making the 60s and up at this position.This is ridiculous! Has anyone else ever heard of such a thing?There's no way that was an honest mistake. Just run.what planet are they on? That is a joke.My company, when short term incentives are given out, gives an all-in number of how much they pay to have me employed here...salary, health, 401K, etc, but I think that is to give visibility to they cost of an employee, that is never a negotiating point. Salary is the negotiation.If it makes you feel any better I get lowball offers worse than that frequently mainly from staffing agencies which is why I don't talk to them anymore.I'm an admin assistant and make more than that in salary alone. My benefits are also excellent. I can't believe that some employers believe that everyone is so desperate for a job that they will take any offer that is extended to them.doesn't really matter what the degree is in, at some point if you aren't using it, you need to chalk it up to a loss... unless you can somehow get a break into that field, the longer you go without working in it, the harder it might become so best to just give up on it?or follow through with your plans for it when you got it in the first place? What did you want to do with it? It sounds like you wanted to teach it because of the educational emphasis? Why not look into being a school counselor? Or a social workers? Or one at the prisons? Not sure what all the masters is used for...I have had 3, going on 4, jobs in less than 2 years, have applied to hundreds during that time, and have figured out something that every job searcher should know. There is absolutely zero relation between what's posted as experience requirements, what your experience is, and whether you get hired. I've applied to plenty of jobs which I was overqualified for based on the experience requirements and got shut down quickly. On the other hand, I've gotten interviews and even hired for jobs that I considered "a shot in the dark" because they required 5+ years in this or that technology and because I didn't bother to write a cover letter or fill in any of the non-required fields on the job application. Really, it's a complete crapshoot.that's true.. i have friends that will only apply for jobs if they fit the requirements exactly; and i always tell them why not try? Unless you literally have no relevant experience and then its more than likely just wasting people's timeOriginally Posted by?GraceKrispy?Overqualified people often jump ship as soon as they can find a more suitable job with pay that matches their experience. So if there are enough suitably qualified people, I think interviewers tend to choose from that batch rather than select a flight risk who may think the job is below him/her.Where is their logic? How many people stay in a job forever particularly a lower job like retail??The worst part is apparently you can even be overqualified when you have a degree from a diploma mill. If they were going to go to a new job immediately they would have never applied to the job in question.The idiocy of employers is incredulous. That's like being a landlord and saying "oh we're not going to rent to you because you apparently don't like this city and we just know you're gonna leave taking our rent money with you"But it costs money to hire people. That's why I truly feel bad for hiring managers who make constantly bad choice after bad choice. That's why I laugh when I see the same job re-posted every 2 months for the same position I interviewed for back in February. That's why I say well, if they had just hired me, they probably wouldn't have to worry about setting up more interviews and onboarding yet another person. That's why I stressed my reliability to them. Oh well, those places get what deserve. I already found a job but it really sucks to be in that position when you know your top choice never makes it.I guess you're kinda right but there must be a way to minimize their expense if not do it for free. They're thinking way too one dimensional. Yeah on paper they look like an immediate leave but it may take a while for them to find something better.?Plus anyone can be a potential leave. Maybe the new employee they hired can get in an accident, get permanently ill, move to another location or even win the lottery. Life happens.It would also depend on the type of degree and where they got it from. I don't know how you're supposed to get something better with a degree from a diploma mill so I would hope that would not mean overqualified (I would like to believe that the important people take it seriously since I unfortunately fell into that one but even I don't take the school seriously). My field is transferrable. I can use graphic design in any business so whether it's a kennel retail store bank etc. I could stay a little while doing it because every business could use an advertiser. There are probably other degrees that would work for many fields as well. Finance might even work for many companies. All companies could use someone to keep track of the money.I just don't know why they worry SO much whether someone could go for something better. There's always a company that will beat out another company. If you're just some lowly person trying to gain employment then yeah you can worry about being better. I worry about that all the time but a business should make plenty of money. If you are worrying that much then maybe you shouldn't be a leader in the business.?Finally it costs money to have a job too when you think about it. People are still applying though.Think how much better off companies would be and how much happier employees would be if people were hired based on their willingness to learn and to do the work?It used to be like that, you know, back in the Good, Old America days.I tend to have a requirement. If I have 50% or more of the required skills on there (I literally count each bullet), I apply. If less than that I move on. It's worked pretty well.Originally Posted by?Hemlock140?That won't work at my employer (2,000 employees). The way we work it is that HR and I both go over the applications/resumes, and either or both can reject, but even if I want to interview someone that doesn't meet every requirement HR will not let me. They have to verify the requirements being met or will reject them. I did once manage to get them to call a candidate and ask him if he met one requirement that he had not listed in his experience, and he updated it. He looked better than all the rest except for that one, and it was hard to imagine not having done it in his previous job.?He ended up turned out to be a great hire. On the other hand, I have hired a couple of people that were over qualified, including the one above. He has an MBA and the position only requires "any" BA/BS.My organization is very similar.There is an important clarification though. We generally post both requirements and preferences. A requirement might be a degree, certification, or X years of experience. A preference would be experience in a certain type of work environment, a particular specialty, knowledge of certain software, something like that.People should feel free to apply if they don't meet all of our preferences, but they must meet our requirements.Originally Posted by?jman07?I spent about a year looking for a new job. Then I finally had an interview where everything clicked and they loved me and offered me a job right away. Yet all these other companies didn't like me enough, but I'm the same person. And it's weird how when you're interviewing they look for any reason not to hire you, then after you're hired they do anything to keep you happy (if you're good).A lot of interviewers unfortunately are, rather than simply trying to find the best qualified person and ensuring they can comport themselves professionally, are instead using all sorts of HR quackery and have the tenure of a cop or ambush journalist looking to tear candidates down then pat themselves on the back with the delusion that they are doing a service to the company protecting them from bad hires. Instead they are acting like total flakes and tools and driving away good candidates.I was rejected by quite a few companies that now that I see them at groups and conferences and seeing some of the bad practices and poor quality of some of the people in my profession I can't help but smirk at the messes they themselves are making. This is even more the case with the poor wages and staffing agencies driving the best candidates from the field but this selection based on HR crap is not helping matters either. I don't want some hack in my lab that was picked based on HR BS because I will be the one that ends up cleaning up the mess.Some job applications are simply so annoying, time consuming, irritating and bulls***?I hate when you must answer silly questions, especially having to repeat whatever already is stated nice and clearly on the resume and has all information there whatever HR/hiring managers need to know, as well as linkedin profile. Sometimes you cannot go to next page until you answer everything, and annoying cover letters. I recently was trying to apply for 'Teach for America' position but gave up after a long and annoying application asking so many questions about recent/previous positions, calculations, etc. etc.?I really HATE that almost everything is apply online. Send your resume, apply online. It's the employers way of blowing you off.?Back in the 80's and 90's you could walk in to the business early in the day and fill out an employment application right there so the manager could actually see you and see the effort you made in being proactive about your job search. Also, if you took the care to dress nice the manager could see that about you too.?Not anymore. Now, theoretically you can just wake up, get out of bed, pee, get coffee, get back into bed, smoke a joint, open your laptop and apply away for lots of jobs online.?By applying online, they don't have to be bothered by you interrupting their "important" work to find a paper application for you to fill out. I wish it were paper applications again. I got hired on the spot a lot back before everything was apply online.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?-The HR psychobabble and attempts to psychoanalyze candidates-The complete rudeness and bad behavior of hiring authorities and HR-The horrible applicant tracking software-The unbelievable shallowness in selecting candidates plus nepotism/cronyism-The psychometric testing and other forms of quackery inflicted on job candidates by HR-The greater involvement of HR (they should be relegated to scheduling interviews and doing paperwork)-The fake jobs posted when they are not hiring or already know who they are hiring and post anyways and even interview wasting the time of hundreds of people as well as gas/travel-The ridiculous job requirements posted that noone could ever meet-Never posting a salary causing me to waste my time when the company won't come close to offering a market rate.In short it is so dysfunctional and treats candidates with such a lack of consideration or ethics that I have no problem advising candidates to lie, fake, and do whatever it takes to deal with it and get the upper hand.Great list. I agree with everything above. It's become a morass of complete incompetence, laziness, and greed, on the part of corporate criminal america. Imagine working as a professional for 16 years and even having a recommendation from your longest employer and you can't get back in. Then try to get anything else and because you were a professional you cannot possibly do anything else or since you were a manager you cannot possibly handle being a worker. It's to the point where I just want to slap the crap out of these idiots. Corporate scum ruins everything they touch.The fact that more times than not they already have their candidate picked before they even post the job so everyone else applying is just wasting their time. I've seen this more times than I can countMost companies outright lie when selling their products. Have you ever listened to an infomercial. Most of the testimonials and expers are paid actors. Do you seriously believe the bold claims on the label.I certainly didn't start out with this attitude but after being out there a few years in the private sector and going through the hiring process a few dozen times it became pretty clear that the only rules the companies respect are the law (sometimes if they feel they can't get away breaking it) and money. Why should I or any applicant/worker behave differently. They are out to bleep you over and pay you just enough so you don't quit so why shouldn't the workers bleep them back and do the minimum not to get fired especially since there is no reward for doing otherwise?Originally Posted by?jma501?Great list. I agree with everything above. It's become a morass of complete incompetence, laziness, and greed, on the part of corporate criminal america. Imagine working as a professional for 16 years and even having a recommendation from your longest employer and you can't get back in. Then try to get anything else and because you were a professional you cannot possibly do anything else or since you were a manager you cannot possibly handle being a worker. It's to the point where I just want to slap the crap out of these idiots. Corporate scum ruins everything they touch.well said jma501?Greed, greed, greed. You nailed it in your first post too, the?incompetent?hiring process. Especially when you apply for a job that you?know?you are qualified for and these motherf*ckers don't even call you for a lousy interview. I do believe there are times when a company already has someone for the job they are just advertising the position to look good or they are abided by law to do so. The companies are incompetent in the hiring process but don't you dare be an incompetent worker. The last time I was job seeking I called the boss/or dude that was hiring, spoke with him on the phone and he said he'd be in touch with me. After a week of nothing, I called him, got his voicemail so I left him a message. Another week goes by, nothing. So I call, I'm pretty sure he knew it was me because his phone rang twice then went to voicemail, so I got an attitude and left him a message about having some respect and courtesy to at least return my phone calls. At this point I didn't care if I p*ssed him off because I figured if he couldn't return previous calls he wasn't interested in even interviewing me. Yet, when I got off the phone after leaving the last message the ad was still postedEVERYTHING is overdone. For EVERY job. You could be applying for a janitorial position and have to go through 2 rounds of interviewing. And jobs that pay 30-40k are worse. Almost two month process to tell you you didn't get the job. People do this to inflate their own self importanceOriginally Posted by?Mr.2089?EVERYTHING is overdone. For EVERY job. You could be applying for a janitorial position and have to go through 2 rounds of interviewing. And jobs that pay 30-40k are worse. Almost two month process to tell you you didn't get the job. People do this to inflate their own self importanceThat is ridiculous these days. These long marathon interviews for 30-40K. You would think you were applying for a job that requires mounds of security clearanceIf someone doesn't like it then that's their problem. Not enough people stand up and speak their mind, everyone is too worried about "offending" someone. I did NOT swear in any of the voicemails either if that's what you're implying. I treat others how they treat me. If you give me the run-around then I'm calling you out on itDon't forget age discrimination. That's rampant.It is, but then they say it doesn't happen because you can't prove it.?Guys I honestly think we are in the age of the SOLOPRENEUR, this is basically the guy or girl that goes out and makes their OWN job as a one person business.I'm sorry, but all of the talk of the Job Market improving is bull___. The jobs being created are mostly low wage or not full time, you can't pay for the rising cost of living with it at all.?The times are going to get much harder, companies hiring for "decent paying positions" (which are over $40k - $60k a year) will CONTINUE to create inefficient hiring processes due to the higher demand of people applying.?In a nutshell what I'm saying is that if you can do it, PLEASE try to start your own successful business. Successful doesn't have to be a $1 million business, successful is a business that will pay you $40k - $60k a year in a low cost of living area. It will allow you to forgo the bull___ of these Hiring Managers, you CAN'T be downsized or kicked out due to some political bull___, you also don't have to go through months and months (sometimes years) of dealing with the hiring process just to NOT ever land a decent gig.Just think about it, they tell you go to college and get into $100k in debt for a job. Then you come out and can't get a damn job.Originally Posted by?Rkstar71?I really HATE that almost everything is apply online. Send your resume, apply online. It's the employers way of blowing you off.?Back in the 80's and 90's you could walk in to the business early in the day and fill out an employment application right there so the manager could actually see you and see the effort you made in being proactive about your job search. Also, if you took the care to dress nice the manager could see that about you too.?Not anymore. Now, theoretically you can just wake up, get out of bed, pee, get coffee, get back into bed, smoke a joint, open your laptop and apply away for lots of jobs online.?By applying online, they don't have to be bothered by you interrupting their "important" work to find a paper application for you to fill out. I wish it were paper applications again. I got hired on the spot a lot back before everything was apply online.I agree...first off, I do not like filling out private information to an employer I may or may not want to work for on line..I tend never give my updated information nor SSI..I mean be very careful about giving out yourpersonal data...now the way we apply it's almost like a lottery system..you hope they open your application and call you. I miss the day of an employer speaking with me and hiring me right on the spot.?I once applied to Pepsi and it took 6 MONTHS of emails letting me know I was still up for consideration..who can wait if they are unemployed. I find it too scary how this job search is now almost like a lottery system..you hope your numbers are picked and chosen.Oh and I HATE how LONG it takes to apply on-line..give me a break-PLEASE one job took two hours and never heard back..I miss paper applicationsSo glad Im a union Boilermaker. My local union hall takes care of all of my employment...when I show up on a job, I fill out the hiring packet and go to work. Done deal. No a** kissing..no trying to impress anyone. Then when I'm unemployed, I day trade and make about the equivalent as what I do at work...In this new day and age, you are going to get ahead by specializing in something and living BELOW your means.The reason companies stopped training was because the cheap, rich, scumbags realized they had a stranglehold on the jobs market and could send that extra money to the Caribbean islands and hide it. Typical corporate criminal BS. You really need to stop posting blatant falsehoods about corporate criminal america.In short, just the fact that it is so damn impossible to find a job without knowing someone. I wish I spent 4 years of higher education learning how to network, charm, win people over, and so forth, the skills and knowledge I learned mean squat. I always had great grades in academia, I have certifications in my field, I'm pursuing a masters degree, I have what I think is a pretty decent work history, but yet it takes literally an arm and a leg to even get an employer to want to interview me. In times of unemployment, I've sometimes literally applied for 100 open positions a week, yes custom letters and resumes and all, and I maybe get call backs from about 4.... That is pretty awful. In fact, I compiled all my job searching data for the last 4 years for giggles and found something like it took 200 applications to get a job offer, and about 25 just to get an interview. In the end, the job offer I finally got was because of someone I had as a contact or in my network, so lord knows how many applications it would take to get a job offer without an inside connection.?The worst part about everything is I read lots of career/business/industry reports and journalism and apparently there is 'huge issues" with companies not being able to find qualified applicants (both entry level and higher) for their positions, and 70% of employers citing employee shortage as one of their current problems, due to lack of qualified applicants........ Um..... what. Seems like the majority of twenty something college grads I know including myself are all begging for jobs and definitely have the gusto and skills to do it.In my world, with my experience, education, age, and history of lay-offs during and post-recession, the act of actually obtaining a full-time job in my field, with benefits, would be the equivalent of winning the lottery. And we all know the odds of that happening.In addition to what has been said, I will add the very real discrimination against people who have gaps in their employment history due to lay-offs or who are currently unemployed and desperately seeking wages.?I'd add the ''dumbing down'' one has to do on their resume to even get considered because they don't value seasoned experience.The cumbersome application process, the long wait to get contacted for an interview, and then if you get one, the longer wait to get an offer or rejection, and most times never get closure.I am at the end of my rope in pursuing anymore ''professional'' jobs in my field. I have exhausted the spirit within for over 6 years, looking for a full-time job. My most recent, and final, rejection took place today. Like others have said, I had ''all'' the qualifications and more to make a fine employee for this organization. I left the interview with a strong sense that this was the perfect fit for me. It did not happen and this is about the 4th interview in the past year where I've felt that and did not get an offer. I am done applying for these torturous psychological soul slappings. Done.Meanwhile I've done part-time and contract work to survive and I will continue doing so until I hit retirement age next year. I'll keep working my own way in spite of these BS issues in the hiring system. Whatever it takesI digressed, I know, but the point in all this is that these hiring issues beat people down psychologically and can break their spirit.?It is degrading to go through all this month after month, year after year because of these HR clowns and the economic state of affairs and whatever the hell else is causing all this misery.Perhaps the internet is to blame for ushering in this impersonal, ''cattle call'' attitude toward applicants. But that is what it's become-an assembly line that is grossly inefficient and definitely in need of an overhaul.Folks let's just admit, we (the middle class and of course those from the lower class) were?scammed?by theCorporate Fascist System?once again.?- We are being scammed by the Federal Reserve- We are being scammed by the IRS through the Tax Code- We are being scammed through paying into Social Security and might not receive anything- And of course (back to the topic) we have been scammed through the Jobs Market. The Corporate Fascist System of Big Business, Big Government, The Fed, Big Media, and Big Academia ALL told us that in order to get ahead we had to go to college and grab a degree.?Grabbing that degree put us in serious DEBT, but we were told not to WORRY about said DEBT because college graduates make $1 million more than those who just graduated high school so the college debt means nothing!So we all go out, get into $100,000 in debt and run out into the Job Market saying "look at me", ready to run straight into your $50,000 a year job fresh out of college and to be making over $100,000 within 3 years!But you did not get the entry level job, because they failed to tell you that you needed entry level experience to qualify for the entry level job (not sure how the hell you get the damn experience if no one will hire you)!?So you end up continuing to work at the job you were working in while in college, that required no damn degree, while also moving back in the house with your Parents at the age of 25 - 30 with $100k of DEBT on your credit report.?You eventually find the job that qualifies you for the entry level job, but find that the job doesn't really pay more than the job you have that requires no college degree. But you take it so you can eventually BREAK IN to your professional career.?3 years go by, you go out on the Job Market now with a degree AND experience, and STILL CAN'T GET A DAMN INTERVIEW. STILL can't get a damn job offer. You are STUCK.?They scammed us again. The Corporate Fascists got paid off from you going into $100k in debt and they also get paid off when you apply for jobs because they take a lot of that information and resell it to Data Companies.Corporate america in a nutshell: a bunch of average to below average idiots who think they know it all and send passive aggressive emails all day.Originally Posted by?Scooby Snacks?I couldn't agree more. Applying online depersonalizes the hiring experience. The employer chooses to interview people based on keystrokes and nothing more. What about the importance of a smiling face or enthusiasm? These attributes are not visible when one does everything online. Another major irritant is the lack of salary information on these online applications. The application says "minimum salary required: $XX,000." The applicant must fill in a number, but the position information doesn't offer the same in return. You fill out a lengthy application but have no clue whether this job pays enough to fill your household needs. You may have just wasted everyone's time. Why not be more transparent about salary? After all, that's the main reason people get are looking for a job.They are looking for the cheapest person. It's awful. It makes you feel worthless and like giving up.Originally Posted by?midtown mile girl?They are looking for the cheapest person. It's awful. It makes you feel worthless and like giving up.Sad but true. Companies are hoping they will find someone willing to undercut the budget they actually had for the position. I really don't understand all the median wage reports too, but it always seems the actual salary range for positions is like 20% under (or more) what the median is....And lots of people have already mentioned this, but I wanted to say it again, is just how bad employers discriminate against those who are unemployed or have unemployment gaps due to layoffs. Its like a night and day difference when applying for jobs employed vs applying when unemployed. Just in my own experience, the few times I actively job searched while employed a got an amazing response from companies who just couldn't wait to interview me. These companies just can't wait to steal another employer's resource! But when I was unemployed? These companies wouldn't even give me the time of a day.?All and all, serious discrimination against those unfortunately unemployed. Like it wasn't bad enough to be in that situation, employers won't even look at you...Originally Posted by?ringwise?This is why soft skills are so important. As an employee, I don't want to spend my day surrounded by the likes of this applicant.I have news for you dear. You already are only worse. Most sociopaths are actually quite charming especially when it counts. Ted Bundy the serial killer was so likable that the judge lamented sentencing him. All of your interviewing for "soft skills" has only succeeded in filling the ranks of corporations with cut throat amoral cronies who politic and BS very well and frustrate the heck out of people who just want to come to work and do a good job and add value to the company.?This is why I never have sympathy for companies with talent problems. They are almost always to blame for their own mess.The majority of job applicants, and even the majority of people, are not actually suitable for jobs. They only get hired when nobody better for the job can be found. And even then, the employer often just gives up and doesn't hire anyone.People need to realize the whole idea of jobs for everyone is obsolete. People who apply for jobs are asking to be harassed by a boss. Who needs that? Start your own business and get paid what you're really worth, without being micromanaged. All the time you spend looking for a job is time you could have spent growing your business.B-b-b-but there's a shortage of skilled workers! Why else would we bring over immigrants?Originally Posted by?eok?The majority of job applicants, and even the majority of people, are not actually suitable for jobs. They only get hired when nobody better for the job can be found. And even then, the employer often just gives up and doesn't hire anyone..And the other side of the coin is the vast majority of companies aren't suitable to work for and people only do so because they need money to survive and can't find anything better. However, we are reaching the point where one would be better off giving up and going on welfare.Originally Posted by?PierceMarx?B-b-b-but there's a shortage of skiled workers! Why else would we bring over immigrants?The shortage of skilled workers is just more corporate america BS. There's plenty of skilled workers its just that corporate skin flints won't pay them what they are worth and then reject them in order to hire someone who has little experience or just rescinds the ad.Originally Posted by?chaseo1?Corporate america in a nutshell: a bunch of average to below average idiots who think they know it all and send passive aggressive emails all day.This is so true....When I was 18 I worked for Jiffy Lube. 6 months into the job I received a promotion to assistant manager. Now I was partially responsible for carrying out day to day responsibilities of the store which included(not limited to) meeting sales quotas for the day and car counts.?The district and regional manager would always send out these passive aggressive emails in an attempt to "light a fire under out butts" and somehow force people to spend money and force them to get their oil changed.?Well one time I came to work in a bad mood and seen one of these emails...I replied and said something along the lines of "why dont you come down here yourself and show us to get people in here? We are holding the roadside sign, we are offering $xx.00 off, we are blowing up balloons and doing everything within our power to attract customers. A lousy e-mail isn't going to change things."?He did reply saying something along the lines of "okay, well at least I know your trying..."?Everyone thought I was gonna get fired for that, I said no, its called standing up for ourselves and not allowing corporate thugs to bully us.Guys, I'm telling you, try to find a way to START your own business. Yes, it's going to be "harder" but I believe your future will be more secure in your own hands than that on a W-2 by an Employer who can cut you for literally anything at any time, for any reason, on top of Robotics and Globalization forces reducing down your income.The economy is shifting more into a specialized skill economy, so you are going to need to find out WHAT the hell you specialize in that's in high demand, and STAY THERE. Continue to grow and get better in said niche, and try to open a business in said niche if humanly possible.?The divide between the HAVES and HAVE NOTS are about to get to the point of being the worse that they have ever been. More wealth will be concentrated to the TOP.?The HAVES will without a shadow of a doubt be individuals who are MAINLY compensated on revenue performance, that is bringing in new revenue directly. The HAVE NOTS will be all of those people who work for these individuals in roles that will continue to be either replaced by Robots and Cheap Labor over-seas, or the wages/salary of such roles continually CUT by the same Robotics and Cheap Labor forces.?Heed my words, this post will remain here on City Data. The next 20 years is about to get VERY BAD with this divide and either you jump on the HAVE side now, or you might be gainfully "employed" with a master's degree in 20 years and STILL not able to afford a slab of pork ribs.Originally Posted by?oldtrader?You simply do not understand what those type questions are all about. They are trying to evaluate you as a person, and find how your thinking process works. They want to see, how you handle something thrown at you. Can you actually come up with an answer, or do you just sit there like you are lost.In other words, these questions are to see if you can think on your feet, or need a few hours to think about things before you can give an answer. The best you can handle these questions, lets the interviewer know how well you will be able to handle problems that are thrown at you during the work day. Are you quick to be able to think, or are you easily thrown off. The employer wants someone that can think, and if you cannot handle simple questions like this, then you will not be any better than that when real problems you are not used to having come up on the job.?Those type of tests, have been proven over time to show the abilities to handle problems on the job, even if so many applicants don't believe it.?The answer you give, is not nearly as important as your ability to formulate an answer that is reasonably intelligent and related to the question.You might hate them, but if you want good jobs, you are going to have to learn to answer questions with an intelligent answer. The ones that can, are the ones that get the jobs.The questions are ludicrous and proof nothing other than the ineptitude of the interviewer. I have been a property manager for 16 years and did an excellent job, have a recommendation, and I cannot get back in? There's absolutely no excuse for this.?As for the "fitting in" I have fit in well wherever I have worked and yet these pseudo Freudian ass clowns think they can correctly assess that quality with some inane test or a short interview? It isn't possible with the current class of brain trusts doing the interviewing.Deficits? Uh huh. Well let's see how we adjust to correct these ''deficits'':-age? Nope, can't change that.-currently unemployed? Nope, not unless you hire me.-periods of long-term unemployment due to lay-offs? Nope, can erase the effects of the recession.-too much education/experience? Well, I know how to dumb down my resume, or I probably would not be interviewing at all...And on and on.Originally Posted by?oldtrader?4: The young employees today, as proven on thread after thread on CD, have taught employers not to hire someone that needs training, unless it is impossible to find an experienced person. REASON. The new employee will start looking for another job, as soon as they have training and experience. So many think they need to change jobs every 2 years or so to advance. So the companies have come to the conclusion, why spend the time and money and take the lower production while training someone who will immediately look for a higher paid job somewhere else. This attitude of the young employees today, is what has forced companies to quit training people. Either you have the education and experience to do the job from day 1 or don't even apply.Well, I'm one of those young people. I'm on my third job in 4 years. Why is that? Because employers don't wanna PAY. Each time I left a job, I was paid more money and received better benefits. I'm not gonna hang around and make $10 less an hour to be "loyal" or whatever. Adios.On the other hand, I'm fighting age discrimination. I have 30 years of experience in the same field, worked my way up, have the degree and certifications, not asking for management positions at this point as I am only interested in a reasonable wage...but mostly the benefits. I still have 15 good years before I am eligible for social security and I would like to make a valuable contribution to your company. Reasonable wage (and I mean living wage of at least $15/hour) for a job that they are asking for the moon (yes, I have the moon and I'm not asking for "moon" wages, just living wage) and I go through the mundane questions noted above, company makes an offer of $9/hour with no benefits for 3-6 months (probationary period, you know), and I find out through my networking that your company has a revolving door of employees...and they wonder why. They always act so perplexed when I turn them down right at the interview. Well yes, I am old enough to know what I want and what I don't want. If you are lowballing the job so badly, then you are screaming out for a person with a GED, no reliable transportation, and sharing their 2-bedroom apartment with 7 other people. Go for it.HR...ask me how I can help your company and have the hiring manager in the room to see if that is a good fit. Have the hiring manager ask specific questions about the job to be filled. See if I have the right answers.?As far as illegal questions...I have told my daughter to not even give them the courtesy of a handshake. Just get up and leave the room. I have done the same throughout my career and been better for it. I have seen HR people (especially small companies) who are too ignorant to even know what is legal to ask. And I have seen HR at large companies ask those questions because they think the applicant would never walk away from their great opportunity in the industry. And when I find those companies that ask, or even imply, those illegal questions you can be sure that I pass the word along in my career network. That kind of thing spreads like fire, especially in a small industry.Getting an interview these days is becoming very rare. I'm not sure where the government numbers stack up when they report an improving jobs market. I'm not seeing it in my area. I see call center jobs (slightly higher than minimum wage) where the sales or service goals are unattainable, just at a glance. But the 20-somethings without a college degree snap those up in our area and then just move from one call center to the next. There's always burger flipping, but most of those jobs in our area require you to be bilingual. We don't have a lot of retail in our area. But for minimum wage they want someone with a college degree in business and experience. Inevitably they hire a college?student?who has been working retail since they were 16 and then wonder why their product shrinkage increases. Maybe that young person doesn't have the life experience to recognize when product is walking out the door? I guess they'll make it up in volume then, with unattainable sales goals, and management will wonder why they can't keep employees.In my quest to scale back, not be in charge of 30 people, have a bit more work/life balance, really just need benefits with a living wage, I have found the following:1. I have never been asked a question that is not on the aforementioned list at an interview, unless see #32. HR cannot answer the simplest questions (what company handles your 401k, what is the matching on your 401k, what medical insurance do you have) as they are typical things I would ask HR3. I have been asked many illegal questions to which I respond with my version of the exit interview4. No one can really give you a job description and specific responsibilities for the job, not even the hiring manager. It is obvious in most scenarios that the direct supervisor/ hiring manager knows nothing about the job they are trying to fill.5. Most often, I never get an interview. When I call to follow up they cannot/ will not tell you if the job has been filled, why I wasn't chosen, if they received my resume.BTW, I have scrubbed my resume, transcripts, and references of any age information. My social media is completely locked down. I have done an internet search on myself and requested background checks on myself. There are no omissions on my resume. I have a credit score well above 800 with no debt, bankruptcies, or criminal record.Hurry, run, go hire your brother-in-law who needs the job more because he just got fired from another job, has filed bankruptcy three times, doesn't have transportation, and never bothered to even get a GED. He's never worked in this field but you think he's trainable.Quote:Originally Posted by?oldtrader?Applicants look it altogether differently than the hiring manager. Lets look it from the hiring managers point of view.Having been on both ends of the process, let's.Quote:You want someone that is experienced if at all possible, and has the education to fill the job.Ehm - obviously.Quote:You want someone that will fit into the current staff. You don't want someone that will be getting your staff all upset to the point you lose other employees, or the work product from manufacturing to office work to fall off.And obviously.People skills are always important.Quote:The young employees today, as proven on thread after thread on CD, have taught employers not to hire someone that needs training, unless it is impossible to find an experienced person. REASON. The new employee will start looking for another job, as soon as they have training and experience. So many think they need to change jobs every 2 years or so to advance.The young people today have picked up the lesson that corporate America has been busy teaching - in action, if not words: Employees - or "human resources", as they're unironically called - are treated with the same degree of loyalty and consideration afforded the coffee maker in the break room. Long tenure and loyalty to your employer is worth?nothing?in today's business climate, and everybody knows it.?Oh, HR will call all-hands meetings to speak of soft values and company goals for better work/life balance and employee satisfaction while everyone is itching to get back and get some actual work done.?Quote:So the companies have come to the conclusion, why spend the time and money and take the lower production while training someone who will immediately look for a higher paid job somewhere else.If the skill set is marketable at a higher rate than the company is willing to pay, of course the talent leaves. What on Earth did you expect? Corporate America will drop your ass the second you're a liability. You thought that attitude wouldn't carry over?Quote:Applying on line came about, because of the sheer number of people that apply for jobs. ... They have developed software to so the sorting, using specifications they desire.Nothing wrong with applying online, if the software used actually worked and the website wasn't put together as cheaply as possible. But having to register a username and password to access XYZ corp's website, then peel information out of your carefully rafted resume to make it fit the specific format they like - it takes hours, the websites are buggy as all out (who's going to complain?) and the sorting software is?atrocious.?I have had to raise my voice at HR drones whose amazing websites kept me from interviewing good candidates because they scanned for keyword "CCNA" and I happened to know of a CCNP (much better certification) who wanted to interview for the job. "But he failed the screening..." The HR department tends to know jack about what the positions actually mean and less about how to match those qualifications to resumes. So we get "software" that makes lots of bad decisions very fast - garbage in, garbage out.Quote:People think that they have ridiculous job requirements than no one can meet. Surprise. There are some applicants that do meet these requirements.The examples of asking for 5 years of experience with products introduced less than 5 years ago are so abundant, it's turned into a cliche. You can always tell if an HR drone has put their fingers in a technical job description.?Corporate America is reaping what they've sown: Workers who look out for #1, because it's damn sure their employer won't.Two things that anger me about the hiring process.1.) They give you job procedures, training dates, dress codes, and company policy during the interview before you're hired.2.) Number one continues with multiple visits to the office, (without the interview) for up to a week, only to get a phone call saying you're not hired.I swore at the last company that did this, and asked them to compensate me for my time, money, and gas wasted for the false hopes they've given me, or I'll make their jobs a living hell.These companies have no consideration for the people applying for their position. They have bills to pay, children to feed and clothes. They don't need to be chain pulled like this.pplying for a job is asking for your time to be wasted. The obvious solution is to not apply for jobs. Start your own business, be your own boss, be free of micromanagement, working for jerks, getting paid a fraction of what you're worth, being required to be an expert in company politics instead of your own job, and all such nonsense. Starting your own business is the obvious answer. If it takes you a few years of hard work to build your business up enough to get more income from it than from a job, those few years and that hard work will be worth it, because of how much freedom it gives you when you finally become successful in it.Instead of starting their own business, and focusing their time and effort on building that business, people waste their time and effort applying for jobs. How smart are they?Originally Posted by?oldtrader?Those jobs in the past that hired and trained people, were much less complicated, and not involved with such high tech and complicated needs.This is simply not the case. Not that long ago - perhaps 20 years - IT careers were built by learning on the job. You graduated, got an entry-level job in helpdesk or desktop support or as a junior programmer, moved upwards to more complex things like network operations or server operations or application design, took your experience and became a network engineer or server operations manager or application designer, moved to senior technical posts like solutions architect or DC operations or software architect, for instance.?Today, 2/3rds of these jobs - those towards the low end of the experience spectrum - do not exist in the US any more. They've been off-shored or simply removed, because investing in one's workforce is not a thing any more.Quote:Companies on the other hand, are willing to pay for what you are worth to the company, and the amount of work you can produce from manufacturing to office work. They are not willing to pay journeyman wages for an apprentice.That rather flies in the face of your earlier statement that people will move to better paid position when they're trained. If a company pays market rates, other things being equal, people don't leave.Originally Posted by?oldtrader?Applicants look it altogether differently than the hiring manager. Lets look it from the hiring managers point of view.1: You want someone that is experienced if at all possible, and has the education to fill the job.2: You want someone that will fit into the current staff. You don't want someone that will be getting your staff all upset to the point you lose other employees, or the work product from manufacturing to office work to fall off.?Each of those is equally important when selecting the person for the job. This is the same as when I was in the corporate world, and hired lots of people back in the 1960s. I know a lot of young people think the #2 is a new thing, but it was always a very important factor when selecting employees. No matter how good you are at the #1 level, if you don't fit in your are not going to get the job, and that is as it has always been.3: You are going to look for experience, and the more experience and training that fits into the job the better. An experienced person, is much more valuable from day 1 than a trainee that costs you money, time, and lost production while they are learning.?4: The young employees today, as proven on thread after thread on CD, have taught employers not to hire someone that needs training, unless it is impossible to find an experienced person. REASON. The new employee will start looking for another job, as soon as they have training and experience. So many think they need to change jobs every 2 years or so to advance. So the companies have come to the conclusion, why spend the time and money and take the lower production while training someone who will immediately look for a higher paid job somewhere else. This attitude of the young employees today, is what has forced companies to quit training people. Either you have the education and experience to do the job from day 1 or don't even apply.5: Applying on line came about, because of the sheer number of people that apply for jobs. Lets say 500 people apply, and only 50 are even half qualified as so many people apply for up to 100 jobs a week, most of which they are not qualified for but think the job sounds interesting. They want it on line, so they can eliminate 80% or more of the applicants (all unqualified for the job), and get it down to amounts they can handle. It would take another 2 HR employees to sort out the applications into the possible, and no way piles. They have developed software to so the sorting, using specifications they desire.?6: People think that they have ridiculous job requirements than no one can meet. Surprise. There are some applicants that do meet these requirements. They put in those requirements in ads, etc., to try to discourage those not qualified from even applying. If they did not instead of 500 applications they would get 5,000. They do this to save time, and try to keep none qualified people from even applying saving the employer a lot of time and extra wages.?7: MSchemist80 and many others think hiring someone in the family over outsiders is terrible. On the other hand if you don't take care of your own family and put them first, you are told you are a bad parent or relative. Family does come first no matter what others think.?They tell each other, to network and use family and friends to help find a job and this is one of the best sources of jobs. Then they get angry when the employer uses this method to find employees.8: They lie and cheat to try get a job they are not really qualified for. Employers know this, and to protect themselves and their company, when someone is telling, lies, and faking things to try to get an upper hand experienced HR people know it, and just reject these people that do it.People like MSchemist80, with this attitude, is what has forced employers to tighten up, and makes it hard on applicants. Today people with the right attitude, education and experience get hired every day. People that walk in still can get hired if they have the qualifications and attitude the employer wants.On planet Zod, some of this may apply. Here, on Earth...lmao...Really?To even imply that *experience* usually will land you the job is probably THE biggest crock Ive ever heard.The TRUTH is, whatever no-experience flunky HR just interviewed, that just happened to have a more polished turd of a BS answer than you, w/ tons of experience, will get the job. Period. If I had a dollar bill for everytime Ive seen this happen in 25 years, I could buy a new Bentley. The BEST person for the job, rarely gets the job. Its who best plays the HR psychobabble game & dont even get me started w/ the whole situational question ( STAR Method) farce. They are an absolute waste of time & establish NOTHING. Absolutely nothing.?MSchemist80 is absolutely SPOT ON w/her observations & Ive seen many of her sentiments happen w/ my own 2 eyes, COUNTLESS times over the years.The people in human resources can be moronic idiots. But once in a while, they get it right. I'm not sure what the answer is. But if there's a problem, that's likely where it lies.Originally Posted by?TurquoiseSky?I'm not Miss Congeniality myself, but I usually get the job I interview for because I can fake it. Always be positive, always smile, never trash an employer/coworkers, etc. My current manager was impressed by my answer to this question: "Tell me about a time you encountered unprofessional behavior and how did you handle it?" I said I work with excellent colleagues, and couldn't think of a current example, but back in college blah blah blah incident happened. She went on and on about how nice it was for me to be working in a positive environment with good co-workers. I could have trashed my former employer because that job stunk. But I know the truth isn't going to get me hired, so I do the song-and-dance.Now I just have to put on my fake happy-face for 8 hours a day for the rest of my life. Haha. That part's a little harder.?See that's exactly what's inhumane about it. They want a liar. Meanwhile many of these people who fake their way through an interview, logically wouldn't the employer think they could screw them over? Now some people may just be trying to get by but if a person can fake an interview then they could fake on the job if they wanted to.Nah I know of course they wouldn't think that but they SHOULD. What are they doing interviewing people if they don't know how to read people?If I tell you the whole truth in an interview then you can count on me. Shouldn't that be the most important thing in a job? Having someone to trust? The totally backwards thing about it is they expect someone that they can be a buddy with and yet they let people BS. Yeah that sounds like someone you could hang out with..a liar.The worst part is like you said you would then have to keep up with it. That's probably another thing to keep me from lying successfully. I won't be able to back it up.?I wish I could lie though. A lot people cheat me out of things so I should be able to return the favor but somehow my inner mind won't let me..partly because it feels guilty I guess even though I have nothing to feel guilty about.Quote:Originally Posted by?sandsthetime?The 'fit' thing is quite interesting.I always think I have it nailed down when interviewing. I have the skills and experience to get called in. I'm good at answering their questions. I'm very nice, friendly, smiling. But...the kicker...I'm just too darn soft spoken and laid back for my own good! I think this is the worst thing about my personality when I interview. I'm not good at "faking" it to become all bubbly and seem like I'm the world's most popular man. I've heard that this is the thing nowadays to get to that next step, fake it on interviews and wow them to land the job. Next time I will try and be on a sugar high right before I walk into the door, maybe that will work in my favor.I have probably said this a lot but I swear I should go on interviews completely tired. I'm too reserved/quiet/introverted (whatever you call it) but I'm the exact opposite when I'm running low on sleep. But idk then maybe I would interrupt the interviewer because I'll keep talking but it seems like if they had to choose between two extremes, they would pick the chatty person. They could also interpret my loopiness as perky/positive. I think they'd rather have a loopy person than a person with a storm cloud over their head.Quote:Originally Posted by?Poor Chemist?Defiantly nothing wrong with showcasing your skills just don't say "I want to grow within the company and be promoted from chemist to senior lead scientist" when the interviewer job title is that. The interviewer might think you are after their job if mention to be promoted to their same job title. With that said you can showcase your technical skills to the fullest just don't question the way the interviewer does things or mention to be promoted to the same job title they have.Seems like you can't win with that question either way. Even if you're the type to not want to be a leader/boss like I am you could have something else they don't like. Many jobs that people get I'd imagine are not their dream jobs right? But yet if you answer the question that you'd ideally want to work somewhere else "NEXT!!" This is especially most likely true if this is your first job or even if you've only had a few jobs because how many entry level jobs are jobs that people would want to stay at?Originally Posted by?bellakin123?I have held quite a number of interviews lately for a position available at my place of employment. I am conducting the interviews, as I manage the team that handles the end process. What the job entails is irrelevant but lately it seems that when I'm interviewing candidates, while it's going good they feel the need to close the interview with, "I really, REALLY need a job." Yes, you and the millions of other people in this city. I've also had the "guilt trip". I recently had a candidate say, "I really need this job. I have a family to support". Again, yes, you and the millions of other people in this city.IMO, I don't think it's a good quality or professional to turn the reason for the interview to one'sneed?for a job instead of selling themselves to me and showing me what they can offer the company. Secondly, do some people feel that they may find a "soft spot" in me if they throw the compassion card at me because I'm a woman? I work for a large financial institution and my first objective is to hire talented individuals who are career oriented and career motivated. My fear is that if I do really like a potential candiate based on their experience and personality and they end the conversation with, "I REALLY NEED THIS JOB", am I setting myself up with an employee who is just showing up to work for the sole purpose of a paycheck and nothing more?I'm not being unsympathetic because I am pro-employment but since this is not my own personal company, I feel I can't give someone a job simply because they need one. Do I hire the person but then tell them, "Don't let me down."I think they are saying they need a job because they REALLY need a job. The economy sucks and employers want to pay beans for a job with 2 full pages of responsibilities. I've never hired someone but I've been in positions as a temp and where a company hired someone to do the job I was doing because they were "a good fit" well that good fit usually wound up quitting or getting fired within a couple months. Hire whomever has the qualifications and skills to do the job. Where employers and hiring managers go wrong is hiring someone with 10 years of experience to do a job that only requires 2 and paying them the salary of person with 2 years experience. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that person will continue to job hunt after you hire them and as soon as they get an offer making more money they are out the door. Either way you can't predict the future whomever you hire may stay for the long haul or they may be gone within 3 months. Leave compassion and personal opinions out of it and look at drive, experience, and willingness to do the work.Originally Posted by?_TwentyTwenty_?Well, that may sound true but what if the candidate, whom has lots of experiences, wouldn't mind starting at the bottom at the new company at which has a higher potential to move up and doing his/her best to impress everyone because this new company has better environment, better executive leadership, etc... Just focusing on 2 years of experience alone for a job that requires 2 years experience will sometimes leave you out of a potential excellent employee, IMO.What I meant was a person with 10 years experience may have earned $65k while a person with 2 years is offered a salary of $30k. That is over a 50% paycut and honestly I don't know many people looking to take a pay cut that severe unless a) they have to because they really need a job b) they are retired or semi disabled so any job will do c)they have a side business or spouse to supplement the loss in income. I think since the economy is in the toilet employers have gotten used to getting someone with the most experience for the least salary or they advertise two pages of responsibility, complex responsibility, for entry level pay. If you need someone with 2 years experience look for someone up to 4 after that you are just asking that person to book it out of there as soon as they get a better opp.Originally Posted by?bellakin123?I have held quite a number of interviews lately for a position available at my place of employment. I am conducting the interviews, as I manage the team that handles the end process. What the job entails is irrelevant but lately it seems that when I'm interviewing candidates, while it's going good they feel the need to close the interview with, "I really, REALLY need a job." Yes, you and the millions of other people in this city. I've also had the "guilt trip". I recently had a candidate say, "I really need this job. I have a family to support". Again, yes, you and the millions of other people in this city.IMO, I don't think it's a good quality or professional to turn the reason for the interview to one'sneed?for a job instead of selling themselves to me and showing me what they can offer the company. Secondly, do some people feel that they may find a "soft spot" in me if they throw the compassion card at me because I'm a woman? I work for a large financial institution and my first objective is to hire talented individuals who are career oriented and career motivated. My fear is that if I do really like a potential candiate based on their experience and personality and they end the conversation with, "I REALLY NEED THIS JOB", am I setting myself up with an employee who is just showing up to work for the sole purpose of a paycheck and nothing more?I'm not being unsympathetic because I am pro-employment but since this is not my own personal company, I feel I can't give someone a job simply because they need one. Do I hire the person but then tell them, "Don't let me down."I agree 100% that it is not professional to state in an interview that you "really, really, need a job".But I have a question for you. Why are you conducting "quite a number of interviews" for one position?Part of the problem today is people like yourself who interview 25 or 30 people when the norm used to be 4 or 5 people for one open position.It gets to the point where people get tired of waiting around because the interview process goes on for months and months, or the interviewers get candidates mixed up because they see too many people.I even read on here where the wrong woman was hired...LOL. They got two "Kathys" mixed up and went with the wrong one.So while people should be on their best professional behavior and not mention things like "I have 3 kids and need a job", employers like yourself shouldn't act like your looking for someone to play Scarlett O'Hara in a remake of GWTW.Originally Posted by?bellakin123?The reason it's also taking longer to find a "fit" is because temp agencies sometimes just throw candidates at us without actually taking into consideration what my actual need is.I understand your pain there. Being a job seeker, I sometimes get e-mail notices from recruiting agencies about a job which I don't qualify based on about half of the requirements. So I don't bother wasting my, the recruiter's, and the hiring manager's time by submitting my resume, but instead send a reply thanking them for informing me but I don't qualify regrettably. I know the economy is tough but sometimes the recruiters need to check more carefully on the candidate's resume matching the job's requirements.Originally Posted by?_TwentyTwenty_?I understand your pain there. Being a job seeker, I sometimes get e-mail notices from recruiting agencies about a job which I don't qualify based on about half of the requirements. So I don't bother wasting my, the recruiter's, and the hiring manager's time by submitting my resume, but instead send a reply thanking them for informing me but I don't qualify regrettably. I know the economy is tough but sometimes the recruiters need to check more carefully on the candidate's resume matching the job's requirements.You hit the nail on the head! I've had recruiters reach out to me asking to review some of their candidates. When I told them that the candidates did not meet the criteria I needed, they got all annoyed and defensive. My line of work is very difficult to explain and there are different branches of what I do. Everyone they were sending me did not have any retail experience. I've given the benefit of the doubt and hired a consultant or 2 who were very intelligent and savvy but just couldn't acclimate. It's hard when you like someone because they are a great person but they aren't producing.many of the people you are interviewing have been to many interviews in the recent past only to be #2 and then cry their eyes out because they are defeated again. Saying "I really need this job" is something that goes through my mind the entire interview process. I never say it though, it is against everything I have read and have been taught through career coaching. Never show your desperation. But when you are about to lose everything and all you want is for your kids to have the life they once had sometimes the things that come into your mind just come out of your mouth. I've never applied for a job I didn't want to do or see myself in long term. But after doing 20 interviews in 20 weeks and not getting anywhere 'playing it cool' you act out of desperation, it's like a fight for your life. You go home, you redo the entire interview in your head and stare at the phone with your fingers crossed and your life on the line. Will my son be able to play soccer this year? Will my kids have Christmas? Will we have elecricity to light up our tree? Will we have food to eat? Will this finally be the moment that I get good news or will I once again retreat to my bed for 2 hours to cry until my stomach muscles hurt. Will I beat myself up for weeks on what I should have done. Maybe if they knew how much I needed this job. Maybe if they knew how hard I would work if I just got ONE chance. Desperation makes you say things that you normally wouldn't say.?will vent with you?I can't believe employers are so unprofessional as to not bother to send rejections to candidates they've INTERVIEWED. People take time off work, spend money (well, I did/do) on interview wear, etc., and then to never hear back is the biggest slap in the face. I used to work in HR and I sent rejection emails to every single candidate who even just applied (100-300/month). It literally took just a couple of minutes from my day to BCC everyone and send out a generic email (sorry, no personalization unless you interviewed). So I know, it's not a major hardship on anyone's part, but just pure thoughtlessness as an employer. I guess it's their market, so it doesn't matter too much.I went through something similar several months ago, and it still bothers me. I dearly wanted that job though.I was talking to my Dad about this recently and he was shocked that employers don't send out notices even if you are not considered. He just couldn't believe people would be so heartless. It is really obnoxious and sometimes I wish the tables were turned on these people to get a taste of their own dirty medicine. I always follow up and send thank you's. Sometimes it can help, other times they have already made their decision before they dial the phone.On the vent train with you.I've done tons of interviews and never heard anything back (despite some of the employers telling me that they contact candidates even if they are rejected). I understand the tiny companies without much manpower not getting back with me. Generally I don't even expect it from that type, but the large companies that probably have everything go through that awful form crap like Taleo? No excuse.I've also noticed more and more employers not following through when they set up a phone interview. I had one the other day that emailed me a couple of minutes after the time we'd set saying she would call me in five minutes. Never got a call, so I emailed her and mentioned that I'd never heard from her and wanted to make sure I didn't somehow miss her call. She emails me late that night and tells me she was in a meeting and lost track of time. WTH? This is a corporate recruiter for a large company, too. How can you be so unprofessional??I really want the job so I set up another time with her - we'll see if she follows through THIS time. I can only hope that the local hiring manager is not so scatterbrained.The whole job search/interview thing is just messed up.Oh, I send out WAY more apps than I get calls for, believe me. This summer was atypical.?I recall with no fondness the ''Black Hole'' of 2009-2012-resumes all over the state and surrounding states and nothing, nada, zilch in return!I swear I still see some of those jobs posted! LOLIf x entry level job wants to you to have 1-2 years experience but no one will hire you if you don't have any experience how are you suppose to get the job, or any job for that matter??Do hiring managers think people are born with 1 to 2 years of retail experience? How am I suppose to get a job with no experience??*Begin Rant*Hiring managers are retarded! Whenever I go into a store the fools that I see employed in there is completely baffling! It's not only low class brand stores like Deals and Walmart that does this; I recall once calling MetroPC to inquire about some changes on my account only to receive a text minutes later saying that I must pay $33 dollars on my next billing cycle. Lo and Behold the fool I was talking to made changes to my account and incurred additional charges! Someone in HR at MetroPC needs to get fired or better yet fire the whole department!There is only one explanation! These managers are hiring people eons dumber than themselves so that there is no possible competition to take their job and thus ensuring future job security! Genius! Those genius nincompoops! Of-course stupid people do not know they are stupid therefore none of these boobs would be smart enough to know they are stupid and thus admit to their stupidity.Tsk tsk don't you people know that if you do this you prevent actual descent intelligent people such as myself getting jobs and paying for school and thus improving the economy??I would not be surprised to learn that it is merely a handful of fools that were responsible for the 2008 recession. WHY ARE IDIOTS ALLOWED TO CONTINUE THEIR REIGN OF DESTRUCTION!?Why has government become and Branch managers become so lackadaisical?Why are these dumb managers allowed to only employ stupid people?Why is Isis allowed to destroy the lives of innocent people?Why are children left to go hungry and without shelter?Don't you see that these people are going to destroy us all!? These kinds of evils cannot go unpunished any longer. It should be a criminal offense and these people should be thrown into jail for corporate negligence (I think that's a real offense) and I should get their job.Life is so unfair. 6 months and no job.?*End Rant**sob* *sob* *sob* *sob**sob*OP, just because they say they want x number of experience doesn't mean they won't consider people with less.Take my case, for example. When a recruiter contacted me and told me about this job, I was intimidated by the job description where it said 7 years of experience. At the time, I had about 3. But I went along with it anyway and here I am now working my dream job.When they dismiss you, chances are it's not because of your lack of experience. Something else is at play, and it sure ain't them being idiotic. Trust me, hiring managers know what they're doing.I really want nothing to do with corporate America. My appearance, interest, and high level of general weirdness would make it tough for me to do well there, and more importantly I have an overwhelming need to express myself creatively and do things my own way. I am eccentric and, you know, I like that. I like being weird.I think the answer I am looking for is "don't work another stupid J.O.B. and do what you love." I am blessed to be in a situation where that is possible for me. I also think that I just might be too individual to be forced into delivering the goods for tyrants who just could not care less about me. Why worry about what they think?Put America back to work!I keep saying that every time I go to the local stores and restaurants now days. No matter where I go there is a problem with understaffing. Huge long lines at the only cash register working at the grocery store and huge lines at the few working self checkouts too. The food is slow to come out because they did not hire enough cooks. Dirty dishes sitting at the table for a long time because they don't hire enough bus boys. I rented a car on a recent trip and there was only one line open and 15 people in line in front of me. I could go on and on.You may say, then shop some where else. Problem is nearly every retail establishment is understaffed with terrible customer service.You thoughts and experiences please!That's what you get in exchange for those low, low prices!?Discount stores run on thin margins so there's neither the money nor the incentive to keep the shelves neatly stocked or a bevy of registers open. The Target closest to my house is usually fully stocked, clean and at least half the registers open at any time, and it's the same at Costco and Whole Foods. Compare that to the closest Wal-Mart, which looks like a Soviet Russian retail experience. The shelves are a mess, the floors are filthy and there is never more than three registers opened at one time. But, hey, shopping there can save you $.30 on that Tony's frozen pizza!?It's almost as if it costs money to have nice things delivered with good service.The result of electing an anti business president. He has destroyed the economy... Actually, he has destroyed everything that is American, but this discussion is about the economy...People cannot understand that the pennies or dollars they are saving on toilet paper or their mystery meat burger come at the cost of slow/poor service.Originally Posted by?I'm Retired Now?Put America back to work!I keep saying that every time I go to the local stores and restaurants now days. No matter where I go there is a problem with understaffing. Huge long lines at the only cash register working at the grocery store and huge lines at the few working self checkouts too. The food is slow to come out because they did not hire enough cooks. Dirty dishes sitting at the table for a long time because they don't hire enough bus boys. I rented a car on a recent trip and there was only one line open and 15 people in line in front of me. I could go on and on.You may say, then shop some where else. Problem is nearly every retail establishment is understaffed with terrible customer service.You thoughts and experiences please!I have to agree with this. Where I live, many of the fast food locations have one person working the grill, one prepper, and one cashier. The manager is covering the drivethru and trying to bounce between the window and helping put orders together.Originally Posted by?MissTerri?I haven't noticed this at all where I live. Places seem pretty well staffed in general.Not the case where I live. The Super Walmart that they built about 10 years ago is not only laid out horribly, but they have 30 registers, and usually only have 4 open... 2 express lanes, and 2 regular lanes. Not to mention there are no express checkouts. I mean seriously, if you're never going to open even half those registers, then WTF do you need 30 registers for??I avoid the place if at all possible. At least the other grocery store in town, while they are smaller have less registers, only have 1 express lane open, and 2 other regular lanes open, they usually have a number of self checkouts open.Originally Posted by?HappyTexan?Take out and self checkout is the way to go.Which means fewer people are employed, Which means fewer people are eating out, which means fewer dollars are being circulated, which means profits are lower, which means fewer people are employed.Economics in a nutshell. I refuse to use self checkouts. Every one that goes in means an American lost a job.I refuse to use self check-out; in essence they are having me do the work of an employee without compensation. Offer me a discount and I might consider it - until that happens, I will let them ring up my sale. The store gets paid the same amount whether I do the work or them, so why should I do it?Originally Posted by?BoomBen?Love the self checkout.It shows stores they do not need to pay people to scan items.It is not a great thing but it is reality and we have to deal with it.All the automation just eliminates human jobs. The savings aren't passed on to the consumer either. Prices just keep going up along with CEO pay.You get what you pay for when it comes to shopping at a place like Walmart. With cheap prices generally comes empty shelves, lousy to no customer service, minimum wage employees who don't care or don't even speak English. Americans want rock bottom prices without thinking of the consequences of it.Well Im sure alot of people also quit those dead end jobs. Maybe these greedy corporate retail/restaurant giants can offer better incentives/money/ etc. and there won't be this problem either.People are getting sick and tired of watching all the money flow to the top and never trickles downBurt Lange in Albany, New York said:?most employers will not tell you how bad the job really is during the interview! they will taper their answers.Very very true. I noticed this with "start-up" companies. They all swear how they are "expanding" and therefore, taking a $12 an hour pay for a job that would normally pay at least $20 is worth it because you'll grow with them! A year later, they're out of?business...and just think, the job market in San Diego is WAY worse than in LA.?Sadly I'm forced to agree that job seekers and employees have to be as slimy and underhanded as employers these days. A crap economy can force good people to become cutthroat.if you answer just one question wrong during an interview, its OVER!There's the truth and then there's the right answer!Burt Lange in Albany, New York said:?if you answer just one question wrong during an interview, its OVER!There's the truth and then there's the right answer!Yep.Why do you want to work here?True answer: Because I need a job and need money to pay bills.Right answer: (Fill in the blank company) has been inbusiness?for 60 years and is a well known leader in the industry. I believe the future for this company will continue to shine bright. It would be my dream to work for this team where my skills and background can be utilized.realism37 in Georgia said:?Yep.Why do you want to work here?True answer: Because I need a job and need money to pay bills.Right answer: (Fill in the blank company) has been in?businessfor 60 years and is a well known leader in the industry. I believe the future for this company will continue to shine bright. It would be my dream to work for this team where my skills and background can be utilized.I like the truth. But you have to say what they want to hear.Interviewing today is just silly, with how difficult it is, it's hard to believe anyone gets a job.Jimmy in Los Angeles, California said:?Whenever I feel a moral conflict about being dishonest with my resume, job history or references, I just remember how dishonest some employers were to me. For example, when an employer didn't have the professionalism to let me know they were passing on me or stonewalling a response or trying to low-ball me on the salary.I understand where the frustration comes from, I really do. I cannot understand how anyone can advocate lying on any level in the workplace. It will always come back to bite you in the behind. What a silly thread. I get that I'm in the overwhelming minority here. But feeling ok about lying? Really? .uptoyou in providence, Rhode Island said:?I understand where the frustration comes from, I really do. I cannot understand how anyone can advocate lying on any level in the workplace. It will always come back to bite you in the behind. What a silly thread. I get that I'm in the overwhelming minority here. But feeling ok about lying? Really? .Since I started lying, I have been offered four jobs. All pay between 55-60K a year and I'd be off at 4PM everyday. My would-be supervisors either are not in the office or work in another state. One job gives you two weeks off for the holidays- PAID, in addition to the standard three weeks. And these are all jobs that I am capable of doing. Before all that, I was walking dogs. So you tell me that I shouldn't feel good about it? LOLI wouldn't lie on an interview if I were you. I serve as?Directorof Career Services for a local University in Michigan as well as owning a professional resume writing, career coaching, and training service. I work with employers on a regular basis. When you lie on a job interview or on your resume it could comeback to hunt you. For example if you say you possess a certain skill and are asked to perform once hired it may not go off well for you. I have even seen people terminated for lying on their applications or during interviews.I totally understand that employers are not always professional in their dealings with people. However, you don't want to lie since it can come back to hurt you down the line.Whoa! Wasn't expecting this kind of response and the one below either. I am not big on titles, but I thought it would be fitting to share a bit about my background so the poster would know where I am coming from. Morally, I just don't think there is no place for lies at all in a job search. There is no point for it. If you target the right positions and organizations that are a match for your career goals and values, then you don't need to lie. The goal is for the employer and the potential employee to come together to discuss the problems the?business?is facing, to get to know more about each other, and to see if they want to work together to solve the problems. If they see you as someone who will solve problems for them and you will fit into their culture you won't have to lie. On the other had, you can decide if you want to work with them as well. No lies needed either way.Career SkyRocket LLC in Pontiac, Michigan said:?Morally, I just don't think there is no place for lies at all in a job search. There is no point for it.Okay but what if someone has a huge gap in employment? It is no secret that many employers turn their backs on unemployed applicants. It doesn't seem to matter how legitimate the reason is for the gap, some employers are extremely picky and will disregard long term unemployed applicants.Not known for being a liar. Been told many times to lie to make it easier in life. I reject. Honesty becoming frowned upon. Everybody white lies sometimes (u don't look fat)... at times not meaning-a slip. Lying for a job not for me. Still alive.Hello,I have been looking for a job for about 5 months now. I was laid off from my last position as an executive assistant - I LOVED my job and was very sad to lose it. Since I have been looking and interviewing I have come to realize its really hard to find a job with a good company and good pay. I interview with a local company recently and I had two interviews with them. I was not honestly 100% sure its the right "forever" job but I interviewed anyway.?The manager I met said the company is run by a "shrewd business man" and he is very particular about how the company is run. Basically the culture is very rigid and they don't offer much in the way of time off, etc. The pay was what interested me the most. My last employer was very laid back and offered great benefits so this would be a change for me. But I figure I'm a hard worker and pretty adaptable to change, so I would give it a shot if they made me a good offer.I got a call today that the manager is ready to make me an offer but Human Resources was having some trouble reaching my references. I did give them 2 recommendation letters but 1 has not returned the call and the other has changed her number and I do not have an updated number yet. Turns out they tried to call my references multiple times today - this is not good because I don't want to push my references to the point that they will not give me a reference because they were called multiple times in one day. It left a bad taste in my mouth that they would call my references multiple times in one day as my references also work. References are tricky because I cant make them call these people back and I have been using the same references for the last few months. Seems even on an application - Before you get to the interview process the companies want references. I do not give them out until I'm interviewing now. My last employer/Human Resources will only acknowledge hiring dates. I was lucky to be able to get reference that was willing to get more personal - she was a colleague. My employer before that is not even in business anymore and closed 6 years ago.The hiring manager then sent me an email saying "Can you please call me, there is something I would like to discuss with you" So I'm thinking - great they are ready to make me an offer! Well.. NO. She wanted me to call her to discuss my "lack of attention to detail" in two of my emails. One I signed my name in my maiden name, not my married name - this is just habit thats been hard to break. And the other email I put 1 L, instead of 2 L's in my references last name. She says "I worry that this may be an issue for you because this job requires a lot of attention to detail".. I was floored that she would nitpick me before I'm even hired...left me with a really bad feeling. Is this a red flag?Yes, that's a red flag. I'd probably proceed with caution.I say run like your butt is on fire...Make tracks. Unless you are a nit-picking, negative-Norton, Roger-Pocket-Protector-loving downer, this sounds like a bad, toxic place to work.?Calling you out on the maiden name mis-spell is just wrong, and then getting the reference name wrong was "a shame on you.." but do you want to work for "those kinds of people" who believe they do no wrong?Op, a hiring manager correcting your spelling mistakes is a very big red flag. Run from this job.Originally Posted by?earslikeacat?Make tracks. Unless you are a nit-picking, negative-Norton, Roger-Pocket-Protector-loving downer, this sounds like a bad, toxic place to work.?Calling you out on the maiden name mis-spell is just wrong, and then getting the reference name wrong was "a shame on you.." but do you want to work for "those kinds of people" who believe they do no wrong?Op, listen to the above. My last job was like this and you will be?miserable?working for a place like this.the important thing to remember being unemployed is that this situation was not our fault or our making. the greed of others has destroyed our economy. I say this only because i am reading alot of people down on themselves. I too am unemployed and looking for work and i have a very hard time with no feeling self destructive sometimes. i know what i am saying does not help you find a job or even change your situation but please remember its not your fault ( in most cases)Memyself,Its much much worse than Obama wants to openly admit in terms of joblessness and lingering unemploymentYou so have that right, Beth.It is definitely bad for a lot of people, as well as for people who can't even get jobs at Target, the supermarket,housekeeping, walking dogs, etc. I think that a lot of places don't even want volunteers, which was/used to be another way that sometimes you could get a foot in the door that way. Debt is awful, don't go there, my mom's bankrupt, father is laid off, I can't even get volunteer experience, and I've never had a job. I would love to get hired as a?lifeguardand to work/work my way up in a gym or YMCA as a trainer/group?fitness?instructor/health?coach. At least, they help pay for your training if you would like to get certified or licensed in something. All you can do is try, and if you have to do?food?stamps, you do food stamps, it is not your fault.I have a?college?degree and still can't land a?full time?job that pays a decent wage that will allow me to survive in NYC! Sadly it has been about three years and I am still on the hunt while I pay my student loan on a monthly basis yet it is difficult to pay my rent.I've about had it, I have 2?college?degrees with great grades, and a u.s. veteran, worked for a fortune 50 company in management for over 10 years. Owned and operated my own?business?with 18?full time?employees handling all aspects of running the business. Now I've sold it and am looking for more balanced life.Here I am sending dozens of application, performing what I feel like are great interviews and have not gotten a single second call back. I know I could be great at the jobs I've applied for. Have asked H.R. after turn down of what I was lacking or what could I have done better.All I'm told is someone was more qualified. I find that hard to believe, I've run an entire business, worked 10-16 hours a day, did any thing it took to get the job dome, thecustomer?always came first... even before my dinner and family.I'm starting to turn into an angry person over this. I go back and see some 18 year old kid working the job that doesn't have a clue. Mean time my wife is working supporting the entire house hold and I'm feeling like a dead beat. Her friends ask her what I do for a living and she has to awkwardly say... nothing. Much more of this and I'm going to lose it.george in Wellford, South Carolina said:?Our kids are moved out (I'm 50). Shes been very supportive, I guess I meant to say like her family and our friends. Extended family that we don't spend much time with are going around saying.. 'I can't believe he's making her work while he stays at home'. Close family knows I've been looking.I keep lowering my standards and pay that I would like to get. It really will be humbling when I find myself working for some 24 year old kid after having my own?business?and traveling the country doing deals. I'm now apply'g for jobs at $10-$14 per hour when I used to make $120 her hour. It doesn't even seem worth it.I cannot believe the wages of today. I'm thinking I made more money when I was that same age as a lot of these 20 something?hiring?managers I have met along the way. It's hard to put on a serious face when you respond to most of these jobs.... the rest of my story, been passed over 4 more times since my last post. Here's the kicker of it... our 19 year old son who we beat into his brain how important?education?is.. skated through school, pleading with teachers in the last week to make up and turn in all his home work late to keep from failing... managing to get 'C' and some 'B'. Fast forward 1 year, he puts in 2 applications at different manufacturing shops, 1 rejects in several days, the other takes him in part time at $9.50 an?hr. 45 days later he gets raise to $11.50. Now (2 months later) he starts?full time?with them this week at $17.45 per hour... doing absolutely nothing but putting parts on a conveyer belt. wtf.. I'm happy for him, but it pissed me off with 2 degrees and lots of working and real life experience I can't even find I job. >:(TheBestEeveelution in Dover, Delaware said:?The job seeking process is such a nightmare these days and I fear I will never find a job that fits me. I never interview well and I would rather go in and demonstrate my skills and things I learned on other related jobs for a day than sit through what feels like an interrogation.You got that right!They look for purple cats or purple foxes which don't exist. I just turned down a job interview because I know it would of been an interrogation and a 2?hr?drive to get there.I know how you feel. I am having problems finding a job. I don't have a car or public transportation to help me either. And I am about to loose my?apartment?because I don't have any income. I have section 8 but they told me if I don't have income coming soon they are going to stop paying my landlord. I cant even get a job at mcdonalds that's how bad it is here. Its aggervating because I don't know who I can turn too. my family wont even help me. I just feel like I have bad luck all the way around. and I am so tired of having bill collectors call me. I tell them I cant pay anything because I don't have any income. And they keep asking me the same question but in a different format. I hate repeating myself to them. If I could pay them I would. But I cant.Should I consider seeking out a new line of work? I am a software?engineer?with 6 years of experience and I have spent 3 months finding a job outside of this death trap called Las Vegas. So far, I have gotten a few phone interviews, but not even an on-site interview, despite knowing 3 different programming languages, having a Master's degree, 2 Bachelor's degrees, it's apparently still not enough to find a job.What's more depressing is my parents kept telling me how easy it was to find a job for them and it took them a week back in the 80's when "we had an even worse recession".So I'm wondering two things.Is it that employers notice I'm from Las Vegas and don't take me seriously? I've noticed a lot of locals here are having trouble finding work elsewhere because they told me they aren't being taken seriously due to them being in Sin?City.Should I find a new line of work? I've been noticing I'm not the only engineer having trouble. There are several others that have been too. I'm starting to think I should probably move to a major more worth it like?finance.am trying to get any job, but in LA a lot of people want people that could speak English + another language, I only speak English. The rent here is high. Very high am munching off my parents place as I have since I was born but I wish I can make something it has been a year since I worked.. Am begining to forget how going to work feels like.EndlessJoy in Atlanta, Georgia said:?Wouldn't you agree that we are partly to blame for the mess America is in since we voted some of the creeps (and I use that politely) into office? We need to hold these people accountable and vote them out come November.Anyone on the ballots is bought and sold by the system, so it doesn't matter who you vote for.?There is no "wrong person".?It doesn't matter who you vote for. They are all owned.How are you going to hold them accountable, when they are not accountable to you??They are accountable to the system that they make work.?That's all just talk to make Americans think they are powerful and in charge.?So you're going to vote them out of office? Another one of them gets in...People say a lot of things, but have NO WAY to implement them.?You can have good thoughts and good motives, but you have to have a way to change things.If all it took was BEING RIGHT, we would have won long ago!!xboxer in Cactus, Arizona said:?Anyone on the ballots is bought and sold by the system, so it doesn't matter who you vote for.?There is no "wrong person".?It doesn't matter who you vote for. They are all owned.How are you going to hold them accountable, when they are not accountable to you??They are accountable to the system that they make work.?That's all just talk to make Americans think they are powerful and in charge.?So you're going to vote them out of office? Another one of them gets in...People say a lot of things, but have NO WAY to implement them.?You can have good thoughts and good motives, but you have to have a way to change things.If all it took was BEING RIGHT, we would have won long ago!!My father use to say "Never vote for anyone who promises jobs. That's the oldest campaign promise in the world". The only job they care about is theirs.I keep hearing the saying "you are better off looking for work while you have a job". Um...having a hard time with that. Looking for work currently in the industry I'm currently in. I'm at the point in my life of getting ready to do something else. I wish I can find a good paying part-time job and use days like Thursday and Friday my photography or something. It's like you have to create your own career. My current job situation: horrible morale. Management doesn't care about the employees. You are just a factor of production. My bosses just care about their commission every end of the month.It's getting tiring working for companies where no positivity is coming out of it. Not willing to pay you more. Not willing to give you a chance on certain projects. Time is flying right now and I'm exhausted. Thank goodness I'm working but tired of getting up in the morning and not looking forward to going to work.Im sure everyone has gone through this but it never gets old being overqualified for something then to get a automated email saying you dont match their requirements.Im fed up of this my family is hounding me to stay in the field to not stoop down to service jobs. But its at a point where it doesnt matter because i have prior exp and could easily get jobs that arent?entry level?but even the?entry?level places cream of the crop.Baggerman said:?I'm still around, xboxer--though things are still where they were when last I chimed in. Fill you in @ later date--bring cookies, it'll take a while! *LOL*Oh wow! I've followed your story...I think we should all hang on tight, because the US is going over the first big rollercoaster hill.I can't believe people think it's about them, why they can't find a job. The US is importing more and more cheap?labor, and it's all about giving them, not us, jobs.Trying to chill out watching TV and turned it off after one too many jokes about the unemployed and moving back in with your parents.Nothing like kicking people when they are down, these people suck.The economy is still not working for many people and to be honest this really has been going on since probably right after the dot com crash. For many years people thought they were doing OK - with house prices skyrocketing and easy?credit. Now we know it was all an illusion.dontwanttobea99er in Somerville, Massachusetts said:?I bet I'm the only 30 year old Master's degree holder folding clothes, today...You'd be wrong.I'm a 50 year old double masters holder, who keeps getting passed over for every job, even ones that are?entry-level.I can't find out why either, other than the possibility that occurred to me last week, just after my 23rd interview so far in 2015. The?hiring?official said to me directly, "You clearly meet or exceed every qualification we have for this position, and your experience is vastly superior to everyone else I've interviewed."A direct quote. I wrote it down.There's that old "you're overqualfied" spectre raising its ugly head. There is no such thing as overqualified. If I wanted another position, I'd have applied for it. Oh wait, I've applied for over 343 jobs in the last two years. I've had 49 interviews. No offers. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. I've only gotten two, count em, TWO "Thanks but no thanks" letters. I'm getting really good at interviewing, because I've had so much practice. At least I am getting to the interview 14.3% of the time.I think its because employers clearly don't want the very best they can get, because they don't want a new hire who will make them look stupid and incompetent. They don't want the very best they can get.I would write and ask why, what could I do to interview better, but I know they won't tell me the truth.One of my friend's has two Masters degrees from an Ivy League?college?but he has been unemployed for more than 5 years. Pretty much the same story, thousands of resumes sent out, handful of interviews, and no job offers.He applied to a?fast food?restaurant and did not tell them about his college degrees. The manager said that he was over qualified and apparently knew about his?education. The company uses the TALEO system and apparently the company can look up information NOT provided. It really sucks to not be able to dumb down your resume. Really beginning to hate the computerized hiring processCan you really find a job via these online job search sites? I've put in a resume on a few and have received zero call-backs. I'm assuming that perhaps the job postings are not legitimate or maybe there's some kind of trick to it.I have resumes on all the large sites. I have never gotten any legitimate leads from simply posting my resume. If I log into one of these sites, the next several days, my phone will be overwhelmed with calls from headhunters and recruiters.Don't do it. Those sites are nothing but resume farming portals for agency recruiters. Half the jobs aren't real, and those that are real aren't nearly as attractive as they are written (posted wage higher than actual wage, deliberately ambiguous job descriptions, etc).Originally Posted by?e130478?Don't do it. Those sites are nothing but resume farming portals for agency recruiters. Half the jobs aren't real, and those that are real aren't nearly as attractive as they are written (posted wage higher than actual wage, deliberately ambiguous job descriptions, etc).Agree!I created a monster and indeed profile with my resume on it and used that to apply for jobs. Next thing I know, I've got people from foreign countries (deep foreign accents, anyway) calling me asking if I am interested in a job several hundred miles away, followed by an email. And it's usually several people that have called me for the same damn jobs and left messages. I've just deleted my resumes and profile. Also, a ton of MLM scam jobs contact me as well.?What ever you do, don't post your resume online, even if you click "nonvisible to the public" button, people will find a way to contact you.?^^^^ This is so true. Some time back I posted my resume on monster and the same thing happened to me. Tons of spam. I removed my resume. I've heard many bad things about careerbuilder, too, in terms of posting a resume. I have answered job listings on indeed and have been given interviews.I get more dud calls from schools wanting me to enroll as a result of posting my information. If I get a position I can retire from on one of those sites I'll let you know. is the best online career site (in general) that I have seen. for technical folks...not sure if there are others for other specific fields...monster and career builder are no longer viable, IMHO...I haven't used Monster in forever. The jobs on there are mostly crap and have been for years.Staffing agencies, MLM/insurance, Nigerian scams, and for-profit scam schools. That is pretty much all those sites are good for.In the real world, for most things, 'preferred' means more desirable, not necessarily a requirement.?"I prefer pasta for dinner, but pizza is OK.""I prefer blondes, but have dated many brunettes."So, when you see a job listing that says..."...prefers a Masters.""...prefers XXXX certification."...what is your opinion from experience?Preference or de-facto requirement?Originally Posted by?jobaba?In the real world, for most things, 'preferred' means more desirable, not necessarily a requirement.It means more desirable, not necessarily a requirement.Even then, how many successful applicants even meet ALL the requirements let alone preferences? I don't think I've ever was hired for a job that I met EVERY requirement.Originally Posted by?plmokn?It means more desirable, not necessarily a requirement.Even then, how many successful applicants even meet ALL the requirements let alone preferences? I don't think I've ever was hired for a job that I met EVERY requirement.I tend to think that for the jobs I've applied to MANY applicants meet all of the requirements. So, if you don't have the preferences all down, your resume pretty much goes to the back of the pile.Your experience is different I guess.Originally Posted by?mkpunk?But some of the "prefered" requirements such as a degree, certain amount of experience, particular types of experience, specific experience with skills and other things, counter act that. Ie asking for 3 to years experience AND a degree for "entry-level" positions...Example:?Energy trading support roles, an IT job. Background in Finance is prefered.... it would help if you understand trader linggo in order to do your job. (I suggest taking advantage of the dummy/idiot books for those)remember, the opening could be a replacement or expansion of an existing role and they just want to get close to someone's experiences.?lastly, some ads are better fit for foreigners/H1B visa holders already lined up (especially for greencard processing), so they sound hard to fill, some sound degrading/confusing in fact, on purpose?Originally Posted by?mkpunk?3 to years experience AND a degree for "entry-level" positions...Oh, those are my favorite. The reason why kids with Bachelor's and Master's degrees end up waiting tables after graduation.?Preferred means exactly that. The closer you come to the stated preference the better your chances, but it is not a deal breaker. Even requirements are negotiable if you can come close and make a compelling argument.Stating a preference is a way for employers to give potential applicants a better idea as to what they want. This allows you to tailor your résumé and cover letter better to address the job.I never receive many applicants that hit all of my preferences. Hiring is a matter of compromise for both the company and the applicant."Preferred" is code for "an absolute requirement unless you can otherwise show that your accomplishments are on the level of curing cancer."In my experience/field, which is highly competitive, preferred is the equivalent of required. "Strongly preferred" means absolutely required. It's a good way to deter you from applying when Masters and 3-5 years are the essential requirements. I've also seen this used in cases where they already have a candidate lined up they want, that candidate has some unique trait that they know not many people have, and they still have to post the position for some reason. Then it gives them recourse to go after the candidate they had already chosen even when other well-qualified people apply.Originally Posted by?wideworld?Oh, those are my favorite. The reason why kids with Bachelor's and Master's degrees end up waiting tables after graduation.?Yeah they annoy me as well.To me it means go to the next ad.I seen ads that was looking for a job counselor which had "Bilingual preferred", and I knew it was no point of me applying since I am not bilingual."Preferred" means that if you're currently unemployed (or have any gaps in your resume) and don't have these qualities, then don't bother applying.Originally Posted by?jobaba?In the real world, for most things, 'preferred' means more desirable, not necessarily a requirement.?"I prefer pasta for dinner, but pizza is OK.""I prefer blondes, but have dated many brunettes."So, when you see a job listing that says..."...prefers a Masters.""...prefers XXXX certification."...what is your opinion from experience?Preference or de-facto requirement?In the post Great Recession economy preferred 99% of the time equals required, as there will be many responding now who exceed, let alone meet, all preferred items.I always see preferred as something they'd like, but if you don't have it, can learn it, and are a great match otherwise, then they'll give you a chance. Except when I see "bilingual preferred", I just pass. I figure if a job requires that much interaction with people who can't speak english, or speak it very well, I'll just get irate, so I move on.?Right now, a job I'm interviewing with?prefers?I know MS Access. I was honest, told them I haven't used Access in over 10 years, but database management was a core part of my degree so I understand the ins and outs of a database, but that I'd just need to relearn the 2007 software. That was good enough for them since they said, "we don't use it too often". I also had to take the test (I wonder what I scored) and they were happy with my results, so I may have done decent on it.yeah, i skip "bilingual preferred" jobs because being bilingual usually ends up being pretty important.i am learning spanish though (beyond the very, very basic spanish i already knew), because when you want to work for social justice type nonprofits in the northeast, you really need to know it. it's not necessary at my new job, but if i want to move on in a few years i might as well be prepared.I detest job interviews because they are stupid and tell the interviewer nothing about how well you will perform the job. Most interviews consist of some moron asking stupid, irrelevant questions and trying to psychoanalyze you. I have also been on a number of interviews that have felt like an interrogation, where the interviewer intimidates you and enjoys watching you squirm. Just give me a skills test and base the decision on that.Software development interviews are some of the worst. Almost always involve one or two technical interviews where are drilled with programming questions, given projects to complete or asked to write code on the fly.Job seekers are constantly being lectured about not wasting employers' time by applying for jobs they aren't qualified for. But did you ever notice how many jobs out there have really bizarrely obscure and specificrequirements?that it's hard to imagine any real person actually fitting into?I'm not talking about job descriptions that are "swiss army knife" type positions where they want a little bit of everything (or perhaps too much, for the pay offered). That's pretty normal. I'm talking about where theyrequire?a receptionist/secretary who is completely up to speed on the latest TPS forms, or who has 3-4 years experience using ObscuroMarkII software, oh, and s/he has to have at least a bachelor's degree in Agricultural Sociology.I mean... get real, people. I can see "knowledge of ObscuroMarkII a plus" but... a requirement? I know requirements shouldn't always be taken very seriously, but if you word it like that, you're probably scaring away some very qualified and capable applicants. Or perhaps there really is some perfect unicorn out there in Wichita who really wants to relocate for your $25,000 receptionist job in East Podunk, and maybe she will see your job posting! What do I know.The employment world now seems to be thoroughly infected with "Special Snowflake Syndrome." I myself have been on job search committees which dragged on endlessly because the pool of applicants was deemed not sufficiently special or perfect enough for the position they were hiring for. "We need more applicants! We don't have The One yet! We need The One because we're *special*!" Meanwhile, higher education has become a billion dollar racket as endless new credentials are devised and offered for job seekers who are trying desperately to BE that special snowflake...In years past, hiring and job seeking was a lot more simple, even in more specialized industries. It required imagination also. Employers had to squint at a resume and see a promising employee in there, maybe one who needed a bit of training. Job seekers had to squint at a job listing and see themselves in there (and ample room was left for them to imagine that, since "requirements" were usually not so ultra-specific). Employers would try to underpay the job seeker, and job seekers would try to negotiate for higher pay... it was all a pretty simple game.So whenever I see employers in smaller industries who load their job descriptions with fancy, ultra-specific "must-haves," I just want to pick up the phone and tell them to get over themselves. How about you stop wasting?our?time.That is definitely what I notice as well. Instead of general things like some degree requirement or just describe what you have done these jobs now mandate ridiculous super specific things so beyond any meaning. It is super unrealistic and just wacko to do this. And not just one job or two here and there, there are hundreds of jobs listing exact versions of a very specific program. When there are hundred of similar programs and many versions of the software. And you have to say exactly what your experience is with their software packages and how you used this exact version they list. These employers or HR writing up the jobs have gotten way far off from wanting good people who do a good job.Generally in my field (accounting) job ads are very contradictory and obviously posted by some HR "professional" who has mildly researched the market and knows very little about the industry. For instance this posting:? is for a Fortune 500 of which there are only a handful in Jacksonville and it offers paid O/T so I know that its Fidelity. Theyre the only F500 in town that offers paid OT. They state that a Masters and CPA are preferred, then state 2 years of experience required. They then list bare bones entry level job duties and are paying a solid 15k less than a CPA with a masters and experience commands.?I see crap like this all the time when researching/applying for jobs. Even better is when they require experience in one of the ~5 major ERP systems used in accounting. REQUIRE, not preferred. Its even better when they are on one of the 20 year old systems that nobody uses anymore because theyre too cheap to move to a better ERP system.Job ads are written by people who do not know the job.I recall an ad my company put out years ago. It required 5 years experience in a software that was less than a year old. Imagine requiring 5 years of Microsoft Windows 10 administration for a job today. The people writing the ads dont know. They are like the salesman who promises the world to a client and expect the construction crew to cut 40% of the cost, add 60% more square footage and get it done in half the time.I used to teach and I would find part time jobs offering $12-15 an hour that wanted 5 or more years of experience. Most unemployed fresh-out-of-college teachers won't even apply for that because you can make more subbing. Ridiculous.Originally Posted by?johnrex62?Job ads are written by people who do not know the job..Most supervisors or managers today get there via the MBA route and so have no clue what the job actually entails. So they write up what they think is needed. They may bother to ask their staff what software they use, but that's about it. We just hired a bunch of engineers where the boss was hiring left and right, without regard to what skills we actually needed. I've tried to convince them what skills we really need, but they seem stuck in their belief of what it takes to do a job they've never done.Sheesh. No wonder this country is sinking. There exists an entire profession made up of Stepford wives who have effectively managed to blockade the entire hiring process, presenting an obstacle that candidates need to lie their way around in order to even be considered in the first place.The best thing you can do in order to get a job anymore, is to learn as much as possible about body language, and practice lying through your teeth while giving off visual cues that you are telling the truth. All the other "soft" criteria can be faked too, just not hard skills.Originally Posted by?Loudmouth?Many of the candidates who have been coming in for interviews have been out of work for a very long time. (8 months or longer). Traditionally our recruiter and hiring managers will try to pin them down and find out why they have been out of work for a long time and what they have been doing while they have been unemployed. Here are some typical responses:?" It's tough out there. I keep trying to find a job but no luck so far.""I just have not found the right fit for me yet, but I keep trying.""I have been interviewing up a storm but so far no job offers.""I have spend every hour of the day looking for work" (during his 12 months of unemployment)?Are these good replies to the question? How would you explain up to a year of unemployment?Grrrr. I understand the recruiter is trying to weed people out but this question is really obnoxious. My instinct would be to say (unfiltered), "It's the economy, stupid!"?Don't feed into anything remotely negative (sounds stupid but it's a game that's played). I've been out of the info tech world for five years now. I was test manager and project manager at the end of my career. As much as I dislike LinkedIn, you may wantto go there and find a forum with people in your position and see what people have said there (you used to be able to hide the forum names - I was in the Deaf and Hard of Hearing group and I didn't want anyone else to see that).What you may want to consider trying is while you're out of work, have you attempted to take classes or find cheap certifications that may may make you appear more valuable??I really wish you the best of luck.Originally Posted by?lenalenay?I work in human resources. The recruiter asked you a risky question. Depending on the size of the company, the question maybe illegal. As of 06/2013, it is made unlawful for Nyc employers with four or more employees to ask about a candidate's unemployment status.This needs to be a national lawOriginally Posted by?kokonutty?Certainly a year long gap in work history can speak to the work habits or ethic of an applicant, certainly a legitimate concern of an employer. If not adequately explained it would be difficult to not see red flags waving in the breeze.Not necessarily not everyone who is long termed unemployed lacks work ethic or is lazyMy sister has been unemployed for 2 years. She is single and has no children. She owned some real estate in New York. She sold it, took a trip to the Basque country in Spain for about year. Now she is writing a book and is looking for a full time job as well. What's wrong with that? Some people own real estate that they rent out and make a good income from that! They don't need a 9-5 job, nor do they want it. 9-5 is not the only way to make a living. She won't use recruiters and agencies. So, is she doomed to unemployment forever because some people have a bias against those who take time off from work? That's very ignorant. She puts down on her resume exactly what I stated here. She also finds that question stupid. It's nosy. It's ignorant. What people do in their free time is their business. Employers weren't paying for that time. It was my sister's own time.As long as somebody was not in prison or selling their body on the corner, what business is it? Why is is such an issue with employers? They also don't like self employed people or former business owners looking for 9-5. Why oh why....? My sister answers that question very nicely. But some people are just very ignorant and biased.Originally Posted by?FBJ?You don't have to say that either you can just end the interview and move on with your day. That question is not trying to let about someone instead it comes off as interrogation.My sister said the same thing. SOME people come off like they're conducting an interrogation. I agree, if that's the atmosphere during the interview, then end it.Originally Posted by?msdmoney?I've been employed with the same company for the past 11 years, it was my first job out of school. My wife and I recently have been looking to relocate to a new area and I have gone to several interviews while still employed at my current firm (I've since found something new). One of the interviewers asked me to explain my gap in employment (about 9 months) between graduation and my current (also my first) job 11 years ago. I don't know why but that question really bothered me considering I had been employed and continued to be employed with the same company for the past 11 years.That is beyond stupid. I walked out of some pretty bad jobs when I was 18 and 19. I guess employers will hold that against me, even 7 years later.Originally Posted by?msdmoney?I've been employed with the same company for the past 11 years, it was my first job out of school. My wife and I recently have been looking to relocate to a new area and I have gone to several interviews while still employed at my current firm (I've since found something new). One of the interviewers asked me to explain my gap in employment (about 9 months) between graduation and my current (also my first) job 11 years ago. I don't know why but that question really bothered me considering I had been employed and continued to be employed with the same company for the past 11 years.I hoped you walked out the interview because asking someone that question in your situation was beyond stupid.When interviewers ask questions that don't make sense, or don' t pertain to anything substantive in the here and now, it means they're either stupid - or they know it's a stupid question and they just really want to see your reaction. Since the process is about elimination, they really want to see if you can answer in a composed way or not. They want to see if they can p**s you off. Some people want to see how you react under stress. There are better ways to determine how someone performs under stress that don't involve offensive or irrelevant, or just unintelligent questions.Maybe the reality is that they want to set you up to eliminate yourself by losing your temper or giving them an answer that eliminates you by default. You know what it tells me about the interviewer? He/she is lazy. The communication skills are lacking. Dealing with people is not their strong suite.It tells me more about the interviewer and company culture.RED FLAG.Originally Posted by?Erauso1592?I agree. Well said. But what do you gain as a job seeker if you get flustered and storm out? That's immature. You can confront them with amusement and stoicism.?If the questions are extreme then yes, I would quickly end the interview. But there's no need to be emotional.I never said I walked out but I understand why those who chose to did.?Tell me there's no need to be emotional when you have been unemployed for a little over two years, worked in my field for sixteen years, yet cannot get back in. I am just completely frustrated with the extremely high level of incompetence in hiring today.Originally Posted by?bobtn?jma591, Define incompetence in hiring practices with concrete examples, please.1: The fact I have been a property manager for 16 years and I even a recommendation from my longest serving employer of 12 1/2 years. Yet they claim to be looking for quality candidates. Sure they are.?2: the fact that when I apply for non property manager positions that my skills will clearly carry over to I don't even get a call.Originally Posted by?jma501?1: The fact I have been a property manager for 16 years and I even a recommendation from my longest serving employer of 12 1/2 years. Yet they claim to be looking for quality candidates. Sure they are.?2: the fact that when I apply for non property manager positions that my skills will clearly carry over to I don't even get a call.That can mean the opening was never open to begin with especially if your experience was an exact match for the job. Took me years to realize why I never received a call back after applying to a job I was 95% qualified for based on my experience.Originally Posted by?jma501?Its nonetheless incompetence in hiring. No excuse for it and it should be punished.I agree since it gives people false hope when applying to positions online.Originally Posted by?FBJ?I agree since it gives people false hope when applying to positions online.And keeps qualified candidates from gainful employment.Some people have given good responses on how to actually answer the question without looking like a fool. Yes, employers post fake ads for nonexistent positions for many reasons. It's a reality. Recruiters admit, managers admit, many others admit it. Yes, they even interview people so they can complete the statistical spreadsheet that goes to the EEOC and to other organizations for reporting and funding purposes. Some non profits get gov't funding based on how many minorities they "hire". All they have to do is prove on paper that they tried in some cases. There is also a lot of favoritism and other personal biases that go on within the hiring process. See Cynthia Shapiro's books:?Corporate Confidential: 50 Secrets Your Company Doesn't Want You to Know---and What to Do About Them?- also?What Does Somebody Have to Do to Get a Job Around Here! 44 Insider Secrets and Tips that Will Get You Hired.The reality is that the business world is not fair. It's up to you to make it work for you whether it is being fair or unfair to you. Being reactive, emotional or confrontational is not going to get you hired or promoted anywhere.?I think it's about time we report companies that does "false hirings" to the government, we all know they are constantly saying "we're hiring" just for the tax break.....riginally Posted by?seain dublin?Exactly, I will add there aren't many more jobs such as caregiving that show dedication and responsibility.It's not a Mon-Fri job, it's 7 days a week, 24 hours a day when you're caregiving for someone at home.Right there it shows you have reliability and can handle stress.Any employer that would shun and discredit a person who is a caregiver is an employer that I would not want to work for. It says an awful lot about their character.Originally Posted by?hopefulone?No dear. You made the statement and now it's time to show some source of the statement that you made. And I quote:"Most places that require you to complete online applications usually post fake jobs and you have to know someone to get in the door."?The fact that you cannot post a source means that you are talking out of your?and your credibility has sunken even further than I thought possible.Further, how would you know what MOST places do? How in the world are you in multiple places at once to know their inner workings?Well for starters I worked for 4 places that only hired within and posted fake job.You can't get a job unless you have a job.?That was something I always heard when I first got out of college and struggling to find a full-time job that required a degree. I think what people said when they meant that was that you should take whatever job you can (regardless of how relevant it is to what you seek) and only after that is done, a better job will be in sight (provided you do all the necessary steps).?But how true is this? Why do you think it's a common saying?There is some truth to it. When you are currently employed, and you interview for other positions, on the surface you appear to be more "employable" than some other applicant who has been out of work for a period of time.Absolutely. It's a perception that the longer you are employed, the more stigma you have (why won't anyone want you? is something wrong? are your skills up to date?).?Sometimes there is truth to the fact that a certain candidate may have issues. And others, it's just the economy (or any other millions of potential reasons). Right or wrong, it's just a perception. And perception is often seen as reality.Its very true. You're already batting 0 for 1 if you go to interview for a job and you indicate you aren't working. My wife and her friend interviewed for the same position (2 openings) . My wife has less experience and less educated than her friend as her friend had her Master's. Her friend never got called for a 2nd interview yet my wife did. But her friend quit her job and is currently unemployed looking work. Im sure that was the catalyst.There is a big time negative stigma attached to those not working. Sometimes warranted, sometimes nothaving a job while looking for one shows companies that you are ambitious; however, telling them you work at McDonalds and you are applying to a professional job doesn't look good. It seems for recent college grads they saying is you want me to have experience to get experience. That's why internships in your field of study is very important. Most college graduates have to start out in contract to hire or temp to hire jobs in their field to prove they are capable of doing the job and fit with the companies culture. Once they gain that valuable experience they can land that permsnant full time job with benefits.To OP:In my opinion it is very true that you should take any job out of college. Try to find one that has elements that somewhat relate to what you want to do if you can. It is a common saying because a person with a job typically means that they can probably manage responsibilities, show up to work on time, and have a good work ethic. Furthermore, if I see that you are working at a somewhat respectable place, I can assume that you can pass a background check, drug test, and have a current reference who isn't your uncle on your mom's side of the family.?When I got out of college I couldn't find a job in the field I studied. I had interviews but never landed a job.?I applied for a job working in a construction shop (not what I got a degree for) just to pay the bills. About 4 months in I found a job that related to my education and applied, it was entry level. I got an interview and they hired me.?A couple months into my employment I talked to my boss about why I was chosen and what the competition was like in my field. He basically told me that he had a lot of unemployed college grads who had a 5 month gap in their resume apply. I was the only applicant who took a job that I was over educated for to make the ends meet. Something about being ambitious and doing whatever it takes to make it to the next level.It's false because people get jobs all the time when unemployed including me when I lost my job. I actually think it's easier to get a job when you don't have one because you don't have to worry about constantly taking off when you have a interview since you have nothing but time. When you are employed you have to try and call out sick if you get a second interview while not looking suspicious. The best way to get a job when employed is through networking like a friend of mine just did last week. He knew someone at another agency and the interview was set up without the job being advertised and now he starts that job in two weeks.Well I was contacted four times a month when I was unemployed and ended up getting hired so you can get a job without having one.It definitely not true since I was able to find a job while being unemployed for 12 months.When I saw certain people walk into upper management positions with no real world experience on what is happening below them, and turned everything into labor costs and lowering expenses and all about the numbers (Which sunk in many different area regardless), at the same time with morale lowering in all areas of the company and a lot of great quality employees taking off due to a transformation in the workplace going to miserable and the yearly bonuses and raised being cut in half. Everyone gets their bonuses and pay raises cut yet you see upper management coming into work with a new car or taking off on some world tour. (Chances are it was the direct result of taking money from the people)?Most employees quit caring when they find out upper management has no care in the world about anything other than themselves.Another thing is what makes people (Even top performers) miserable is when they see nepotism/cronyism rear its ugly head which is RAMPANT in the private sector instead of meritocracy.YUP remember the moment/events.?2014 - my company announced we will have a major re-organization. My group was eliminated along with another group. 5 jobs were eliminated & there was 3 open position in another group in our department. I knew very well that I am among the 3, because there were 2 clear weak performer who were close to retirement. But they took months to make that decision of who the 3 were and what those 3 open position were.?I was frustrated & stopped caring whether they give me a job or what job they give me. When I finally had a position, I never started caring because I went thru a mini re-org the year before and another re-org the year before. Not worth it27% of temp to hire jobs actually turn perm. The temp agencies and companies are calling all the temp jobs temp to hire because noone wants their crummy jobs with below market pay rates and no benefits and there is no motivation to do your best unless they dangle the carrot of being hired in front of you. Generally it is a scam to con you into working a temp job.I worked a few Temp-to-hires in Vermont, and they were real jobs, the agency had some decent people, but states/agencies are very different. My experience with Temp agencies in FL made lose a little more faith in humanity. The worst . . .?The only problem is, they pay lower than if the company hired you outright. Sometimes by a lot. One company hired me, bought my contract out from the agency, but kept paying me less to cover the cost. That got old, fast. In short, just like anything else, some good, some bad. Listen to your instincts.I worked temp/contract jobs for about 10 years. Almost every position was a "temp to hire" but it never panned out. The worst example of this was at Best Buy. A month of jumping through hoops (phone interview, 2 in person interviews, background check, fingerprinting, drug test, etc) for a position that was supposed to be 12-18 months and then permanent afterward. I got great feedback from both the agency and my managers at Best Buy, but after 6 weeks I was told on a Thursday that Friday would be my last day. Apparently the department never had the budget for the position... but perhaps not coincidentally, I had finished my initial project.I can count on one hand the people that I worked with that got hired on full time. The phrase "temp to hire" is a scam to entice workers to bust their a$$. Don't get your hopes up. You've already been there 3 months, if they wanted to hire you on full time, they probably would already have done so. Unless you do just want to do temp work, you really have to keep looking for permanent positions.Hello all,I've been reading the forums for some time now and this is my first post?. As a person in their 20's, I have worked in both bottom-of-the-barrel companies to now a respected and recognized f500 company. I notice a similarity wherever you go. It is that if you have any aspirations or ambitions of moving up, managers will often use your initiative and eagerness to their advantage, specially millennial or young workers. One day you are wanted the next you are disposable once you are no longer needed.?The sad thing is that there is no specific praise or recognition. Public recognitions are contributed to the group effort instead.It is similar to the catch-22 of can't get a job/no experience situation. Is it even worth it to try so hard anymore?Start establishing good relationships with your bosses, buy them presents, kiss their butt, hobnob in their office.. You will get promoted.?If not, you will never be promoted. Bosses today would rather have their ego stroked and promote someone on that basis alone opposed to having someone work hard for them and not stroke their ego.I've noticed a handful of companies that have "must be able to work weekends/holidays" in the job requirements. All of these jobs are desk jobs at Fortune 500 companies, so it seems odd to me that would be included in the requirements.?Is this the norm, and is having traditional holidays off on it's way out?I'm one of the strange people who WANTS non-traditional days/hours. I would prefer something later in the afternoon or even overnight and I'd prefer days off during the week. Be able to avoid rush hour traffic and get so much done.I don't think holidays and weekends is necessarily becoming the norm. Is it showing up more? Yes, but the majority of office/desk jobs out there are standard hours.Originally Posted by?Sam8231?I've noticed a handful of companies that have "must be able to work weekends/holidays" in the job requirements. All of these jobs are desk jobs at Fortune 500 companies, so it seems odd to me that would be included in the requirements.?Is this the norm, and is having traditional holidays off on it's way out?I see lots of ads state that you must be able to work evenings and weekends not holidays. B.ut either type of ad would force me to skip it and move on to the next opportunity.About ten years ago I was fired from a job and went into a financial tail spin. I was silly and was living on 110% of my paycheck and had no savings and was basically a paycheck away from poverty.My boss did not like my personality, no matter how hard I tried to work hard and be nice to him. He would trump up all kinds of charges against me and make me look bad. He begged his boss for the authority to fire me. Finally he got desparate and made up some terrible lies and had me fired. He was also able to convince the unemployment office that I was guilty of misconduct and was thus ineligible for unemployment insurance. He would not give a potential new employer a professional reference on me so I could not get a new job for the longest time. I lived on credit cards and loans for the longest time.Finally I landed on my feet but it took me years to pay off the debts of my long period of unemployment. I cry when I think that I allowed one mean man to have so much power over me, my family and life for years. It encouraged me to look into working for my self and never being held hostage to the actions of one man or women ever again.I agree. Although this is not my situation. I just had a friend who was improperly dismissed - but the real story behind the scene is that her boss hit on her and she did not respond - but neither did she report it to HR. So he trumped up a bad review because of it.Luckily it worked out for her - she got a new better paying and closer to her home job. So she did not pursue the matter legally. (women, always report any funny business to HR)The best way to make a lot of money in a company, is to own the company. Although then the company IS your life... a hard life too. Some people are cut out for it, some are not.?Good luck to you.Unless you work at the c-level (CEO, CIO, CFO, etc) of a large company, spend decades "successfully" working your way up through a corporate ladder, work in a high-skilled high-demand profession (lawyer, doctor, dentist, etc), inherit or come into a lot of money unexpectantly, invest income incredibly luckily, become a high-powered entertainer (who can essentially collect $1 or more dollars from everyone entertained), or work for yourself or a family member business owner - you will never become rich.?It is a broad statement, and I generally hate to make them, but it is an absolute reality. Unfortunately most of the boomer generation were sold and have sold to their children a bucket of lies which include contrary ideas.?The lies consist of:?"if you go to school to get your masters or phd you will become financial successful/wealthy no matter what you go into"and"if you show loyalty to a company, eventually you will reap great financial rewards"and"if you work hard in the business world, you can achieve anything financially"If there is one piece of wisdom I wish most non-wealthy people understood it is that wealthy people become and remain wealthy through the efforts of others. AND they do so by paying others substantially less than they themselves are paid. With rare exception, a family run business will never raise up an outsider and share the profits they earn. Additionally, most significantly-sized corporations only pay those at the very top (most of whom will have familial or alma mater connections with each other) a significant share of the profits.This is an interesting post mbuszu. I don't think college is a guarantee to wealth - it will most likely lead one to a middle-class lifestyle (of course, there are exceptions). Every rich person I know is an smart entrepreneur with no degree. OR the person is older, lived below their means most of their lives, saved, invested, and came out millionaires evetually with time - this takes more discipline than most people have.Originally Posted by?mbuszu?Unless you work at the c-level (CEO, CIO, CFO, etc) of a large company, spend decades "successfully" working your way up through a corporate ladder, work in a high-skilled high-demand profession (lawyer, doctor, dentist, etc), inherit or come into a lot of money unexpectantly, invest income incredibly luckily, become a high-powered entertainer (who can essentially collect $1 or more dollars from everyone entertained), or work for yourself or a family member business owner - you will never become rich.?It is a broad statement, and I generally hate to make them, but it is an absolute reality. Unfortunately most of the boomer generation were sold and have sold to their children a bucket of lies which include contrary ideas.?The lies consist of:?"if you go to school to get your masters or phd you will become financial successful/wealthy no matter what you go into"and"if you show loyalty to a company, eventually you will reap great financial rewards"and"if you work hard in the business world, you can achieve anything financially"If there is one piece of wisdom I wish most non-wealthy people understood it is that wealthy people become and remain wealthy through the efforts of others. AND they do so by paying others substantially less than they themselves are paid. With rare exception, a family run business will never raise up an outsider and share the profits they earn. Additionally, most significantly-sized corporations only pay those at the very top (most of whom will have familial or alma mater connections with each other) a significant share of the profits.Absolutely correct!!! ... unfortunately....As the peon worker getting paid a significantly lesser amount than those at the very top for more work, the only possible idea you can hope is financial security. But, that will be brought on by your actions, not theirs.Taking what income you have, living as simple as possible, and stashing as much away as possible. Living with roommates, not keeping up with the Jones', not paying of massive amounts of credit cards. Simple life, stash it away, and focus on your future welfare. I wish with every once of my body I had saved some of my money back in my big spending years, but at least I've realed myself in and have a stronger objective. Even if it means driving a 16 yr old car (that was paid for with cash), making due with a 20in non-flat panel, plasma, or HD TV, and not spending every last dime of my paychecks from week to week.?What a crying shame saving your pennies and conserving your lifestyle isn't taught well these days.My employment tail spin started when I accepted a job I had set my career goals on. The second week of the job, my director asked me if I had any tattoos or piercings, what they might be of, and where they were located on my body. Needless to say, he had to ask so I obviously didn't have any visible. Anything not visible was none of his business, had no relation to the job duties, and he was not entitled to that information. This was overheard by a co-worker who then turned it over to the union attorney. Union attorney, who did not represent me as I was not under union protection in my first 30 days of employment, wanted me to testify of the director's misconduct as they had been attempting to nail him on sexual harrassment for a long time. I no longer had a job the next day for reasons fabricated, and I was blacklisted from every other agency in the state that I could get a similar job with, not to mention those that find out about this job (I try to not mention it, but it occasionally shows up on the background check) get a poor reference on me from the director. I hate knowing that man still has my goat to this day, 3 years later.The thing most people overlook is whether they're emotionally suited to being self employed. They give lip service to the idea that "it's more work" but most people really have no idea what it is really like until/unless they actually try to do it.Leaving pure luck aside (which always helps!), it takes a tremendous amount of commitment and sacrifice of both time and money to start and then make a go of one's own business. Statistics show that approximately 50% of all small indepedent businesses (of whatever type) will fail within their first 3 years. That's a BIG percentage, and the reasons for the failures are not confined just to "the person didn't work hard enough" or "the person just got a bunch of unlucky breaks."From all I have seen (and I know quite a number of people who have gone the self-employment route; some did well and some did not), it's the people who look at self-employment?primarily?as a route to either (a) more wealth or (b) freedom from the restrictions imposed by a boss or employer/corporation, who end up NOT making a go of it. Why? Because they don't have a realistic idea of what having your own business is like, and how it completely takes over your life until such time (and trust me, it will be a MUCH LONGER time than ANYONE starting out assumes it will be!) as you are far enough along to have overcome all of the early hurdles.I've worked for others, and I've been self employed. First one, than the other, with a career change literally midstream. I didn't go into business for myself because I had issues with bosses or co-workers or authority or corporate structure; neither did I strike out on my own "to get rich". I did it because I loved what I was doing and was also by that time emotionally and personally suited to taking that step. I was NOT ready for it during my 20s or 30s or even at age 40.?I did well enough to retire in my mid-50s but I don't credit being self-employed for that. I probably would have done the same if I'd kept to my original path of working for others (which began the week after I graduated from highschool; I didn't choose to go to college until age 30).In my personal experience, mbuszu's story is just not true ...Consider: I'm a blue collar worker, an automotive tech by training and avocation ... and I wasn't born rich, am not an entertainer, didn't luck out on investments, am not a "c" level employee, etc., and yet ....1) I've made a point of living below my means, even when I was starting out in the trade. I saved (and invested) at least 10% of my gross pay for years.2) When the opportunity arose (due to my side work), I opened my own independent service shop. After two years to get the cash flow OK (using my savings to live on during that time), I started making decent money. Again, I invested a lot back into my business and into my personal savings program.3) My employees made good money; close to 6 figures/year for some of them.4) When, after 25 years, I closed up my shop and two of my techs opened their own shops, still successful today and making good money. I also had 4 other techs leave my shop during the years and they opened their own places based upon my training and shop model; I was happy to assist them all in getting their businesses up and running. (FWIW, my will gives a lot of money to a "tech scholarship program" for deserving students ... a full ride, tuition and stipend ... to go into the automotive trades, based on ability, not need). I believe in giving back to the industry that allowed me an opportunity to be successful in life.5) Not to brag ... but I'm in a position now where I don't have to work. Our home ranch/farm is paid for, my second home in Vail is paid for, my fleet of motor vehicles is paid for, my airplane is paid for, my fleet of sailboats is paid for ... you get the idea. I have no debt and adequate cash flow to sustain my lifestyle without having to work. My family eats very well on our organically raised beef, poultry, lamb, and pork, in addition to our organically raised vegetables. I still work 50+ hours per week as a manufacturer's rep in addition to my farm/ranch work, because it lets me write off a lot of travel where I can fish or ski while making sales calls.5) My children and their spouses make mid 6 figure's per year working for other people. They've learned to live within their means and are aggressively investing a lot more than I ever did because they have the ability to do so. Only two of them have degrees. I'd say they're pretty well off; they'll all be multimillionaires before they're 35.So what is your definition of wealth, mbuszu? Lots of disposable income? A huge amount of money in the bank? I don't have a lot of either .... I'm more dirt rich and cash poor than anything else, but we have a good life and our health and many years ahead to enjoy the fruits of our labors.Consider, also ... there's a lot of trades jobs in the USA today that pay around 6 figures/year if someone is willing to work. Plumbers, electricians, auto trades, etc. There's a lot of sales jobs out there that allow people to earn a 6 figure income, too. Even my local trash hauler ... OK, he's self-employed, owns his own two trash trucks ... makes close to $100K/year. As does my local septic service guy ... a one man outfit, owns a service pump truck and a backhoe rig, he makes $75K/year. I know a philosophy PhD that has a "mountain man nut & fruit company" route who makes about $80K/year and is a lot happier as a peddler than when he was doing the PC thing in Boulder as a prof; his wife got into Amway and NuSkin and Mellaluca (MLM marketing ... and made lots of money for many years before retiring.IMO, there's a lot of folks out there looking for work with a degree that simply isn't needed in the marketplace ... but they don't seek other work that they are well capable of doing because it's out of their degree field. For example, I have a cousin with an MSW degree that isn't worth pennies more than a BS/BA in related fields because the PhD's are crowding the job market at $15/hr. I can't imagine how they'll ever repay their student loans.A lot of you have talked about savings, or living below your means as a way to wealth. That may help in the short run but you can't save your way to wealth - you have to develop significantly greater cash flow or invest in assets that will grow substantially over the years. And yes, a business is one of those investments.?And not all Baby Boomers are passing on the bad advice we got from our parents. I teach my kids that they should get a good education, but to look for opportunity at every turn. I taught my son to make mirrors with driftwood frames. He picks the driftwood up while we are on vacation - enough for 3-4 mirrors. It takes him about 4 hours to make each mirror and then he sells them to a local boutique for $500 - $600 each - and he's only 12 years old. But he's learning that through his own ingenuity and hard work he can create opportunities for himself. We've discussed how he could get more driftwood, make more framed mirrors and sell them in greater quantities while he's in high school. Now we're helping our daughter make ribbon headbands and other accessories. They're both 12 and budding businesspeople.There is no such thing as "job security" anymore. I never remember being treated this bad and making such a lesser amount of money than ever before. Maybe it's where I live. I heard 90% of the money goes to the top 10% of the people. I believe that. With all the transitions of our small company, littles less than 5 mil a year, I have become #4 in the company, seniority wise. People don't stay long here. I have only been here 5 years, the people above me are owners, husband and wife and one guy who is like their son/slave/gopher/whatever. I am after him. There may be a few machinists who have been there longer, and yet with all of this, me being hired as purchasing manager, then demoted with nothing to do, then shipping manager, now customer service manager, seniority over all of the office and all of the warehouse except Jimmy and I make exactly what I did when I started!!!!I was at 625.a week after 3 mos, then came the "we changed the name of the job and you no longer work in that capacity", era, which was 2 years went to 10. to 11 an hour, then 2 years ago, promoted to CSM and back to 625 a week.They just fired my boss VP of sales and his partner (in real life too) Merchandising manager, and plant manager, shipping manager and one laborer. All in 3 days. They hired a new President, (the owner will travel for new suppliers and design from home and remain CEO), a new VP of sales. No one was hired for shipping manager, they took a young man from the floor with no raise for him to do the logistics and all shipping duties.So that leaves me in the front office, the only person with over 1 year experience and Jimmy in the warehouse , the only person who knows anything.I hate this, I just hired a new order entry person and after only 2 weeks she gave me her resignation this morning. I do everything. We have a AP and and AR person, (2 people), a CFO, I have more seniority, he was fired and then rehired. I know this sounds bizzare.Jimmy is going back to China in a couple of weeks, there goes Manufacturing down the tubes and the angry customers calling. Oh yeah I did production control too and looks like that will fall in my overloaded lap in a few weeks. Its' incredible, I am angry, I have over 25 years experience in manufacturing. Mayberry sucks!!!!!Thanks for letting me rant. I am so stressed, 30 to 50 calls a day and that's not even doing all my regular duties......I hate lifeI've now worked for several companies where the turnover is more than 50% per year and I'm not even exaggerating. Half the people who join leave before 1 year. The companies are, of course, perfectly aware of this fact, and don't seem to care (or else they'd be doing something to change it). The main reason people leave is because the pay is below industry standard and there's no advancement.?Am I correct in thinking that some companies have done the math and believe it's a better business policy to stack the decks with "entry-level" employees than it is to pay competitive wages for more advanced positions??see this a ton in my profession especially with the use of temp agencies which pretty much guarantees high turnover and worker disengagement.?The end result is that most people (~50%) in the profession have less than 5 years experience. The profession is attempting to adapt to being a race to the bottom by making methods as standardized and automated as possible and making the equipment as dummy proof, rugged, and simple to use as possible and buying maintenance warranties on all the equipment to compensate for the fact that most of the entry level employees left don't know how to fix or maintain the instruments and break them frequently.?However, it still takes skill to troubleshoot, apply. interpret, and adapt methods. Also one doesn't always want to wait a few day for a maintenance technician to repair the equipment broken by the underpaid and under-trained staff especially in the high throughput labs where equipment is running 24/7.In the end I think the profession is going to implode as more and more potential workers are hearing about and turning away from the poor conditions in the field and the field will be unable to attract workers with the caliber of skill and intelligence they need hence the screaming for more h1b's to abuse in place of the dwindling number of native born highly intelligent suckers.My company has the same problem. Most employees don't stick around for more than 2 years at least. Just in the last 2-3 months our small little operation has already had 3-4 people quit due to low morale and all the crap they are putting up with from management. Management treats everyone like field hands who should just be "happy to have a job".?From my understanding, high turnovers costs companies a ****TON of money. And they don't do crap about it. You're bleeding from the company by running everyone off at record pace. Management needs to be held accountable for high turnover and our corporate office just looks the other way.Most people quit due to low morale and poor treatment. THis stuff can be easily fixed for the better yet nothing ever gets done about it. HR, corporate office just sit there while the mis management, poor treatment, high turnover continues year after year. Maybe pay is below industry market, but a little extra incentives and better treatment can offset that in many casesA lot of it is good talent leaving tooAnother major problem I commented on in another tread and comes up over and over is companies do not do anything about bad managers. In many cases managers can bully, demean, micromanage, overwork and drive out one worker after another and there are no consequences.Originally Posted by?BATCAT?I think there more to it than that.Long-time employees can have a whole lot to offer an employer, making them very much worth the higher salary, depending on the field. It's just that if you're somewhere burning though folks every one, two, three years... there's not many chances for that value to make itself seen.I totally agree. There is no better teacher than experience, but I don't think companies today—who are most likely staffed by newer, less experienced individuals—understand the "whole picture" concept.?I was with XEROX when they went that route . . . "Encouraging" higher paid, experienced individuals to retire, then replacing them with new people at half the wage. It was/has been disasterous. XEROX's stock was splitting back in the late 90's-00's, now that are competing with pikers like Ricoh.Originally Posted by?bUU?If A cycle that has been disrupted by the combination of automation and globalization, and could very well have been broken as a result.It's not just that. There is a very deliberate effort, so far successful, to force wages down my removing any security from employment. That's why Obamacare was so bitterly resisted by the same people who gladly spend much greater sums of money on Medicare for people who don't work. If employees can look at different jobs without having to worry about losing health care coverage, salaries will go up.Originally Posted by?Moby Hick?It's not just that. There is a very deliberate effort, so far successful, to force wages down my removing any security from employment. That's why Obamacare was so bitterly resisted by the same people who gladly spend much greater sums of money on Medicare for people who don't work. If employees can look at different jobs without having to worry about losing health care coverage, salaries will go up.RTW and other conservative/ALEC initiatives are degrading the worker. It is a concerted effort by the usual free-market corporateers to eventually have us become the United States of China. Big business worships China.We are suffering the onset of that ideology currently.?Few facts that are being overlooked:1----There is only so much money that can be allocated to employee salaries. They have to balance the budget for employee pay and benefits, so that they stay within budget and make a profit.?2----Older experienced employees are going to be paid more than newer employees. What happens so much, is that younger employees look at what they call industry standards for pay and it is really mid career pay they are demanding. They look too often at what employees that have spent 10 years in the business earn and is considered mid career pay, and think that even new employees should be paid the same. They never have been, and employees with short times in the business and less valuable to the employer are not going to be paid that amount today and in the future, just as they were not paid that amount in the past. They have to work their way up to mid career pay, and earn the right to earn it by proving they are worth that amount. The following listing by college majors, shows starting pay and mid career pay for nearly all college majors.Highest Paying Associate Degrees | PayScaleYou cannot expect mid career pay to start out. You start at the lower field and work yourself up to mid career and higher over a period of time. And you will note, that some fields of work, pay a lot less than some others, both starting pay and mid career. Note there can be as much as 80% difference between starting wages and mid career wages.Due to some areas being extremely high cost of living, they do pay more than these figures. However after adjusting for cost of living, what they pay is very near the same as in the chart. And those high cost of living areas, have higher operating and business costs all around, so again they are limited as to what they can afford to pay. PERIOD.?3----We are in a global economy today. U.S. companies have to compete with companies from around the world, when setting prices for our goods and services. It is this global economy, that set the price for goods and services, and determine the amount of money that can be devoted to employment compensation (pay and benefits combined). This global economy, has priced out some goods and services to the point they cannot be manufactured in this country. On the other hand for large items like autos, foreign companies have opened factories and facilities in the U.S. and produce here. We have had to ship out facilities to lower cost counties. And at the same time those foreign countries are shipping jobs to the U.S. to make goods at the factories now located in the U.S.?4----Obama care raising the cost of medical insurance, etc., had to be calculated in with all wages and other benefits. A lot of the potential to raise salaries, was taken away when Obama care was forced on business. They have only so much money to spend for salary and benefits, and Obama care caused a lot of companies to hold back on raises and bonuses and spend the money for insurance demanded by Obama care.And yet, after-tax corporate profits are somehow much, much higher than they were before Obamacare or the rise in health care costs or the increase in imports from China. And wages are down.?Seems maybe there's a connection.Corporate Profit Margins vs. Wages in One Disturbing Chart | naked capitalismThere's nothing unusual about oppressing workers to maximize the next quarter's bottom line. Workers are practically slaves anyway. All over the world. It's as if they were made to be oppressed. If it's dumb to oppress them, because it reduces long term results for the company, that's normal too, because companies tend to be run by dumb managers whose only skill is getting management jobs, with no skill at actually doing the work competently.It depends on the kind of work and how hard it is to get people that can produce. In many jobs turnover is no big deal, just train for a day or two and they are good to go. In our case, "entry level" can require 3 years experience, and we pay well with great benefits to keep people. Most of our movement lately is retirees with 25-30 years and top level executives getting headhunted away for more money. No one expects people in fast food, restaurant servers, or retail employees to stay very long and the cost of trying to retain them is way beyond any benefit.It's awful hard to put a dollar value on experience. Therefore companies largely ignore it.In technical fields turnover is high. Employees typically quit after two years or less. If they stick around too long they get laid off when work runs out. So it makes little sense to encourage them to stay.Originally Posted by?pvande55?In technical fields turnover is high. Employees typically quit after two years or less. If they stick around too long they get laid off when work runs out. So it makes little sense to encourage them to stay.But, on the other hand, in a lot of technical fields, experience makes a huge difference, and keeps making more and more difference the more experience you get. But managers tend to disrespect technical people and feel threatened by them. Novices are less threatening because there is always an excuse to fire them any time they develop the slightest attitude problem.The key issue in management success is that the manager works towards his own career, not towards the success of the company.Originally Posted by?KonaldDuth?I've now worked for several companies where the turnover is more than 50% per year and I'm not even exaggerating. Half the people who join leave before 1 year. The companies are, of course, perfectly aware of this fact, and don't seem to care (or else they'd be doing something to change it). The main reason people leave is because the pay is below industry standard and there's no advancement.Am I correct in thinking that some companies have done the math and believe it's a better business policy to stack the decks with "entry-level" employees than it is to pay competitive wages for more advanced positions?I think it's just incompetence. Companies would LIKE turnover to be lower, but can't figure out what the problem is.It is them - the owners/managers. They don't know how to do their job, and there is no one to teach them. So they make poor decisions and form mediocre companies.I think God every day because I am retired and no longer have to watch management destroy themselves. They never understand why.I got a job at a large corporation in Minnesota a little over a year ago. They have about 8,000 employees world-wide. Their history had a lot of ups and downs.As I understand it about 7-8 years ago they changed their corporate culture and tried to put their employees first. They have now just come off of 23 consecutive quarters of record growth. The salary and benefits are pretty good and the environment is probably the most casual I've ever been in while still being pretty intense. (Yes I know that sounds contradictory but I swear that I have?never?seen anyone in this company even wear a tie. That includes the CEO, unless he's doing a publicity gig. Jeans are pretty much the dress code even at the corporate HQ.)The company is considered a world leader in their field now. I guess it goes to show you that the bottom line is not just about crunching numbers. The bottom line will automatically be there when you have an atmosphere that respects the employees. Listening to what they have to say rather than imposing some top-down efficiency-driven culture makes for a better work environment and - I think - a bigger bottom line.I'm feeling pretty lucky these days. I've heard that a lot of Twin Cities companies operate this way. That might help explain why it's such a desirable city to raise a family.Originally Posted by?bUU?That's an assumption on your part and not a good one. You are presuming that there is a profitable and effectively way of incentivizing employees guaranteeing that they will stay. That's not necessarily the case.?One of the best, relatively contained examples of this I've seen (the data shared with me by a colleague who did the research) was the labor marketplace for theme park workers in Orlando FL in the mid 1990s. Employee retention was falling as the parks vigorously competed with each other for the very best performers, wait staff, etc. All that the incentivizing you alluded to did was create a price war. It increased the price of labor internally, but also boosted the expectation of compensation for those who were looking to jump to another employer. So the only way to attract better talent was to offer even more compensation. Churn continued as the various parks continued to try to retain or steal the best talent with better and better compensation.?The main reason why pay is below the industry standard is because the industry standard is being boosted by the churn. It's a vicious circle.?The lesson to learn is the one taught in the 1983 film War Games, "The only winning move is not to play."That wasn't the world I or my friends lived in, circa mid-90s at the theme parks in Orlando. The move was towards making everyone that they could go to part-time so that they could avoid benefits. And it worked a lot because people were willing to put in minimum hours to get their family into the parks for free. Of course, they eventually did away with that as well. Also, there was a waiting list to become servers at the parks. The best restaurants were highly coveted and could take years to move up to them, while still remaining at part-time status. Servers were paid $2 an hour. Regular park positions were minimum wage. The other big con that continues to this day was Disney University, where the company could get students to work as slaves while charging them room and board.Your colleagues research was bogus. He was either making it up or the companies spoonfed him those lies.Some companies don't value employees at all. They don't want to pay for the best so they are getting everyone else. Money talks. Don't pay much don't expect much. Lots of family owned companies are guilty of this. If you aren't family don't expect to be there too long because they seem to only want to pay the good money to the family.Want turnover? I have worked in call center scenarios most of my career, since 1995. Some were good, some bad, I have started at the bottom, to work my way to Management status, only to get downsized a few times.I relocated to Florida since I figured we would wind up here anyway down the road. Funny thing now as a financial rep with a couple FINRA licenses I am making pretty much what a middle manager would make, Granted I am putting in more hours (I can pretty much do overtime all I want) and have an ok bonus program plus an annual bonus as well. plus a 401k and a pension, a rarity for sure.I see on a daily basis low morale and pretty high turnover, people want the highest $$ avail to do the bare minimum, just like in "Office Space". My company treats you fair if you are a decent performer with no attendance/quality issues...management also does try and help as much as possible but most people from what I've seen really don't take advantage of everything they just look as it as a paycheck nothing more and when they get bored or disenchanted or management questions why they call out every 3rd Friday they just leave, many don't even give any notice they just stop showing up. Some leave after 3 years when you become vested in the employer contributions to the 401k and the pension, which I do understand.However if you are a good performer you do get some perks, for example in November I was given the option to work from home, which for sure I accepted. Being in my 40s and making $60k, in Florida, from home, as a phone rep isn't horrible. But yes employees especially mediocre/sub performing ones are 100% expendable because there is another ass waiting to fill the seat of the person that left.My grandmother worked in a department store (Stone and Thomas, now defunct.) for 26 years. She started off as a sales clerk, then moved on to the perfume counter, and the last years she was working in the office as a payroll clerk. There were many people who worked there for years and most were full time. She received pretty good benefits and pay for the time she was there. This was from 1966 to 1992. You don't see that in many stores anymore. They just hire part-timers and hope they will quit before they are due for a raise.Yes, and from my experience in retail, the managers try to find ways to fire the long-time employees and replace them with part time minimum wagers,I've seen an increase in the amount of outsourcing work lately due to jobs being vacated due to re-orgs or new demands that forces the company to reduce headcount of full-time American employees then the company turns around and goes out and grabs a bunch of H1B1 visa workers then brings back American workers on a contract to train or manage the H1B1 workers until they are ready then does not bring back American contract workers.Corporations are turning this strategy to reduce their full-time headcounts in all service areas that requires minimal communication with clients or other workers. Americans workers becomes contractors to help train temp Visa workers to do their jobs.A former colleague of mine said he was offered his job back because they tried to fill his job with 2 different temp workers and none of them could do the job as well as him. He turned them down and said no thanks. He told me last year they forced him to work longer hours and pull the weight of several other folks that were let go and he couldn't keep up with the new demands so they let him go after almost a year of being pushed to the limit. He's a consultant now and not looking back.I have had mostly negative experiences with staffing /employment agencies throughout the years. Probably my biggest gripe is with the 22 year old "recruiters" and 23 year old "supervisors" who give you the same boring speach about their companies policies and have you complete the same long, boring test that you have completed seven times before with other staffing agencies. They go on and on about how their approach is different and unique from the other staffing companies and that job orders are coming in left and right. (yeah right!) That is why I never seem to hear back from them, even with a great looking resume.?They call you in for a job order, stating that you would be a "perfect fit" for a particular position only to later tell you to your face that either the "job is filled" or that you "do not meet all of the qualifications" to perform the job. When and if you do hear back from the "recruiter" they insist on sending your resume to a "cold calling" center, stating that this job would be a perfect fit for your background, when the position has nothing to do with your experience or career goals.?I also feel bad for the companies and employers that use these agencies as well. Oftentime, they will stick anybody with a pulse into a position, even if their background is in question. The recruiter does not care since he will probably quit his "prestigous" job in two-weeks time anyway.What has been your experience in regards to utilizing these staffing companies?They're a total waste of time, and there has been many others threads about them on here.I don't like them either I felt like cattle.Waste of time unless your experience is SUPER generic....They are a 98% complete waste of time.What a change in the hiring process since I was a young worker! I have been blessed with only a few jobs, but long-term and great for benefits and pension. I am looking for part time right now, and utilize Careerbuilder and Snagajob (never heard of until I applied to a couple different retail jobs online, Kohls and ToysRUs, I believe). I absolutely despise how most of the jobs on either site is through another employment agency! I have had no luck at all with online applications. I couldn't tell you if I am contacted or not, I am so fearful of getting a virus that if I don't recognize the email address, or a "clue" to the sender is not in the subject line, I delete the email as spam. I am learning to go directly to the company website to apply, and even then they have me go through an employment agency that I am not familiar with, so I don't know if it is legit or not. And don't get me started on the sites that require a SS number up front! NO WAY will I give that to an unknown site.A lot of them are wastes of time, but there are a few good ones out there. My husband was just hired full-time after a three month probationary period as a temp.A million years ago, I got my first full-time job as a temp. A month or two later, my grandmother decided retirement sucked so asked me how I got my job. I referred her to the agency, got $100, and she was hired full-time after a two month probationary temp period. She worked that job for 10 years until her health started failing and the place she was working at was taken over by a jerk company.What really annoys me is they demand references when they don't even have a job on the table and then they send any manager references to their sales department.I work in the engineering industry. I've met engineers from the department of transportation who are some of the hardest working engineers I've ever known. I've also met some of the laziest, know-nothing, incompetent engineers from the department of transportation. The ratio is about half and half.What's the difference between that and the private sector, you ask? Well, in the private sector dead weights and under-performers tend to get let go after people realize they are what they are. But in the public sector, all they have to do is do the bare minimum for the first 6 months or however long their probationary period is and then they don't have to do anything at all after that.?I've been told by several reputable people from the department of transportation that it's hard as hell to fire deadweights and underperformers and that most managers in there don't want to go through the process so they just stop giving those guys assignments to do.And that actually explains a lot of what I've observed. I've done consulting work for the DOT. While I worked in their building, I started noticing that some people just came into the morning then be on their phone literally all day until the end of the day. Apparently, those were the deadweights and underperformers. It was too much trouble trying to get rid of them, so their bosses just stopped giving them assignments.?So, if you want a job where you don't have to do anything at all and still get all the benefits that come with a state job, get a job at the department of transportation.Yup. I worked at a government job for 7 years. The work was easy and slow and most of the time it only took half our assigned time to do all the work. The rest of the time we just tried to look busy and pass the time somehow. It's very hard to fire people. The worst they can do is demote you. And those are the worst people to work with since they obviously don't care for the work. We had a guy who was demoted from a skilled position to an entry level position. He would take calls from his other job while on the job. Everybody knew he was doing it even the manager. She spoke to him about it but he continued to do it. I left about 2 years ago. Same stuff probably still happening. Time didn't seem to move there.I'm a retired GS-13/1811... In my last ten years of my career, I worked an average of 12 hours a day, often working on the weekends without the normal overtime pay/comp. time-off and on-call for a week at a time once every two months... Yes, there are many lazy federal employees, but in my 21 years of service, I saw far more hard working and dedicated employees than the losers that make all government employees look bad.I retired knowing that I served my country and community faithfully and honorably... That's the only thing that matters to me.I personally believe a man loses his worth the moment he gives up and start not caring about the quality of his work. I don't care how politically incorrect that sounds. Making it near impossible to fire someone just acts as a motivation for people to do the bare minimum or nothing at all.Originally Posted by?eureka1?Your amazing investigative skills and your sample of three are underwhelming. Yes, there are lazy slobs who try to just get by..they are washed out by their peers. Personally I never worked harder than when I was a GS -12 for the Navy; working as a rehab counselor for the State of California was no picnic either. In both situations the amazing talents of my co-workers and the intrinsic value of the work itself were their own rewards.Not just 3 examples. I've personally seen many more. I've talked with many people in my same profession who have made the same observation over the years.Or how about this. You can go to any dmv and watch how unmotivated, uncaring, and slow the workers there are.In my experience, there are lazy slugs in government just as there are in the private sector. Not too much different there.I spend my days and a government employee covering (carrying), in part from our own minority of lazy workers.?That doesn't mean there is no work, or rules. Most are hard working and capable individuals. A few bad apples are lazy and smart enough to game the system to their advantage for as long as they can.... but they are not the norm.This past year (2015), at the end of the year my company let go several dead weights and underperformers. Out of those, there were 2 that I personally wrote recommendations to my boss to have them not come back after the winter layoff.Most factories, businesses, offices, etc. as you claim it in fact do not have persistent lazy people. The huge difference between the businesses where you observe lazy workers and government offices is private businesses really do have processes in place to get rid of dead weights and underperformers. Government workers pride themselves in their job security.?One time I went to the court house to pay a ticket. There were 3 people ahead of me. And yet, it took me 2 hours to get to counter. Throughout the time, she kept going toward the back and laughed and joked with her buddies back there. At one point, the guy in front of me were annoyed and said he just wanted to pay for his ticket. In a loud, obnoxious voice, she said back HANG ON i'LL GET TO YOU. Then she went back to laughing and joking with her buddies.I've seen this kind of attitude before in a private business. It was a piggly wiggly. That grocery store also went out of business.?That kind of I-don't-care attitude will very likely get you fired in a business or cause the business to fail. And yet, it is very prevalent in the public sector.?I'm an engineer consultant. Part of my job is make sure contractors don't violate the law and the various regulations. I've observed over and over that DOT engineers simply don't care that contractors wash out their concrete trucks on someone's front lawn. The latest example (out of many in the past) was an DOT engineer that let the primer truck spray bituminous material onto asphalt pavement the day before surface asphalt was applied without proper traffic control. There were a whole line of cars following that truck from behind driving right over the primer oil that the truck had just sprayed and the DOT engineer was just standing there laughing. I had to call in the traffic controllers to take care of the mess. When I went up to the DOT engineer and confronted him about that mess, he just kept on laughing and saying how dumb people are to drive on the oil.That kind of attitude would have gotten him fired in my company a long time ago. I filed a complaint to the DOT office with pictures. Nothing ever came of it. He's still a DOT engineer.Usually, at this point someone would accuse me of being jealous. I'll just say that there's no reason for me to be jealous because I take pride in my work and I'm paid a lot higher than the DOT engineers.CEO Tim Cook attempts to explain the reason behind U.S. skilled labor shortage...Tim Cook oversimplifies U.S.In the case of this Apple CEO, the reason there are not enough tool and die makers is it's too hard to make a profit running a tool and die business. As one would expect to be the case, when pitted against 3rd world labor and predatory trade deals. So, all the sensible business owners who once had tool and die shops no longer have those businesses, and they no longer employ American tool and die makers.American CEOs voted for this skilled labor shortage nonsense by sending all the work and jobs overseas. Why would anyone pursue a vocation that can be so easily sabotaged??Maybe U.S. corporations should start offshoring CEO and upper level management jobs to 3rd world slums to save a buck or two. See how many people would pursue such occupations in that case...This is no skilled labor shortage. It is nothing but excuses made by sociopath businessmen who either want the world for under minimum wage or who are simply so ignorant that they honestly don't understand why they can't find a combination electrical / mechanical/ chemical engineer with 10 years of experience in Windows 7, NX 11, Matlab, Fluent, and Lotus Notes.A few articles that point to the facts vs. whatever BS some outsourcing sociopath executive claims is the truth:-?The STEM Crisis Is a Myth - IEEE Spectrum-?Skills Gap a Convenient Myth | Labor Notes-?The Skills Gap Myth: Why Companies Can't Find Good People | There is no skills gap - there is a lack of jobs, even in fields once considered safe, like engineering.Cook is an liar. Claiming that the "problem is a lack of skills" conveniently ignores a few facts - for one thing, the fact that the skills gap in general is nothing but corporate BS excuses to avoid hiring people, but more importantly, he ignores the reason why he may be having problems finding specialized manufacturing skills... And that reason is because companies like Apple have eagerly participated in destroying the industrial base of this nation.?Watching clowns like him stand there, feigning innocence amid the wreckage they created, is a perfect example of the total lack of accountability of corporations in this nation. Nobody cares what happens to "somebody else" as long as their laughable little retirement account goes up a bit - nevermind if the extra few grand you made this year costs somebody else tens of thousands of dollars in lost yearly wages. Who cares - it's "somebody else," and they probably "deserved it" anyway... and it's "wise" to destroy your own nation if you can get slave labor cheaper overseas, etc. Disgusting!?First off, the companies have no interest in training and developing employees like in the past. Now they expect the colleges to produce "turn key" employees. That just doesn't work. Companies today see workers as a disposable expense rather than an asset.Second of all, we have plenty of skilled talent in this country. The issue is we don't have enough skilled talent who will work for minimum wage, or even less than minimum wage like people in the third world are willing to work for.In some fields, here and there or regionally, maybe there are shortages, but overall, not really.People always cite the lack of STEM workers. Back home in east Tennessee, I've known at least ten people personally who have graduated in STEM fields over the past several years, only to end up grossly underemployed. Maybe they can move to places where there are jobs, maybe they can't, but if they can't, there's absolutely no labor shortage there. Even if they do move, it's an uphill slog considering most major job markets would have applicant pools more conveniently located to them.Originally Posted by?TexasLawyer2000?You're actually wrong. There is a huge skill shortage... but not in low skilled jobs. It exists in high-skilled jobs.What Cook conveniently leaves out is the factor the American market plays. Consumers have shown over and over that they want the cheapest products. For example, a person would rather buy a pair of jeans made by Levis in Indonesia than a pair of jeans made by Diesel in Italy. The consumers want the lowest prices and they don't care what it takes. That's America for you.That is because many have less money to spend. Make less, spend less, make more, spend more. For me I'd spend more money on quality products that last longer. If Diesel jeans look good and last longer they're worth the cost but not if I only have $15.99 in my pocket, so the Indonesia jeans it is, that costs $2 to manufacture and lasts half as long. A throw away society we've been forced to be, not what we want to be. We are more like cattle than we think.Originally Posted by?Rambler123?No, Cook is an liar. Claiming that the "problem is a lack of skills" conveniently ignores a few facts - for one thing, the fact that the skills gap in general is nothing but corporate BS excuses to avoid hiring people, but more importantly, he ignores the reason why he may be having problems finding specialized manufacturing skills... And that reason is because companies like Apple have eagerly participated in destroying the industrial base of this nation.?Watching clowns like him stand there, feigning innocence amid the wreckage they created, is a perfect example of the total lack of accountability of corporations in this nation. Nobody cares what happens to "somebody else" as long as their laughable little retirement account goes up a bit - nevermind if the extra few grand you made this year costs somebody else tens of thousands of dollars in lost yearly wages. Who cares - it's "somebody else," and they probably "deserved it" anyway... and it's "wise" to destroy your own nation if you can get slave labor cheaper overseas, etc. Disgusting!?You're missing the point. Bob, and later in the thread Tex, are not necessarily disagreeing with your assessment of the situation, they are just disagreeing that it is a bad thing, likely because they have put themselves in a position to profit from the situation. You are either the employer at the top or the employee at the bottom, there is no more in between...or at least that's where we're heading. Sucks for the employee, but a prime opportunity for the employer.Originally Posted by?TexasLawyer2000?You're actually wrong. There is a huge skill shortage... but not in low skilled jobs. It exists in high-skilled jobs.What Cook conveniently leaves out is the factor the American market plays. Consumers have shown over and over that they want the cheapest products. For example, a person would rather buy a pair of jeans made by Levis in Indonesia than a pair of jeans made by Diesel in Italy. The consumers want the lowest prices and they don't care what it takes. That's America for you.It's getting to the point where the average working stiff consumer can only afford to buy the cheap Chinese made crap you find on the shelves of Walmart.Originally Posted by?TexasLawyer2000?You're actually wrong. There is a huge skill shortage... but not in low skilled jobs. It exists in high-skilled jobs.What Cook conveniently leaves out is the factor the American market plays. Consumers have shown over and over that they want the cheapest products. For example, a person would rather buy a pair of jeans made by Levis in Indonesia than a pair of jeans made by Diesel in Italy. The consumers want the lowest prices and they don't care what it takes. That's America for you.50 years ago, corporations actually spent money training workers. You'd have an outfit like IBM giving aptitude tests to people. The smart ones would be hired as trainee-programmers. A couple of years later, they were trained and high skill. Today, IBM imports H1B technical university graduates from India and China and pays them 40 cents on the dollar. They see no raises since they're indentured servants who would be deported if they quit their jobs.I'm a career development engineer. The whole industry is doing this. It's damned tough for any but the absolute best and brightest new grads to break through this "H1B slave" corporate culture. Even worse, a lot of the big guys are outsourcing their tech jobs to Indian job shops like Infosys. It's a great sales pitch to the corporate bean counters. Replace your high paid full time engineers with Indian contractors. The fully burdened cost to the bean counter is about 50 cents on the dollar. When their H1B visas expire, they go back to India and work in Indian office space for that same 50 cents on the dollar.Originally Posted by?TexasLawyer2000?What Cook conveniently leaves out is the factor the American market plays. Consumers have shown over and over that they want the cheapest products. For example, a person would rather buy a pair of jeans made by Levis in Indonesia than a pair of jeans made by Diesel in Italy. The consumers want the lowest prices and they don't care what it takes. That's America for you.Funny, American businessmen are the same way. They want the most talented workers at the cheapest wages possible.Originally Posted by?jmking?That is because many have less money to spend. Make less, spend less, make more, spend more. For me I'd spend more money on quality products that last longer. If Diesel jeans look good and last longer they're worth the cost but not if I only have $15.99 in my pocket, so the Indonesia jeans it is, that costs $2 to manufacture and lasts half as long. A throw away society we've been forced to be, not what we want to be. We are more like cattle than we think.Very true. I'd love to buy the best quality, most expensive items around (who wouldn't?), but I simply have to shop within my means. If you can't afford to buy items at a mom 'n pop shop, then your options are to shop at a Wal-Mart-esque store or live without. I'm sure more people would love to support small businesses if they could afford to.People need to hold these CEOs accountable for their actions that destroyed our job market and reputation around the world.As my aunt said to me in 1980: consumers are voting with their dollar.In that year, everything I owned including my shorts (Fruit of the Loom), my radio, my Chevellle, and my 51 pickup, were made in either the USA or Canada, or parts of both. When Zenith, my aunt/uncle were Z. brokers in Canada, were bascally the last to go "overseas"-----at least the went to Mexico, they were pretty much forced into it, much to the convention protests of Zenith stakeholders like my aunt/uncle.?The thing is, materials haven't come down at all, and now we're paying for crap from overseas. Excellent comments on this thread calling out the BS corporate justifiers.Originally Posted by?TexasLawyer2000?You're actually wrong. There is a huge skill shortage... but not in low skilled jobs. It exists in high-skilled jobs.What Cook conveniently leaves out is the factor the American market plays. Consumers have shown over and over that they want the cheapest products. For example, a person would rather buy a pair of jeans made by Levis in Indonesia than a pair of jeans made by Diesel in Italy. The consumers want the lowest prices and they don't care what it takes. That's America for you.Well yeah, about 10 years ago there was a store named Steve & Barry's which sold cheap t-shirts, jackets, sweaters, jeans, cargo khakis etc. for under $10. The jeans wear very cheaply made (very thin) but would last for a few years. So you are given the option to buy these S&B jeans for $10, Levi's for $40 and Diesels for $300, most people will take the cheaper item because it gives more money elsewhere.Quote:Originally Posted by?jmking?That is because many have less money to spend. Make less, spend less, make more, spend more. For me I'd spend more money on quality products that last longer. If Diesel jeans look good and last longer they're worth the cost but not if I only have $15.99 in my pocket, so the Indonesia jeans it is, that costs $2 to manufacture and lasts half as long. A throw away society we've been forced to be, not what we want to be. We are more like cattle than we think.Exactly. Making the money stretch is key for consumers. When business owners don't want to invest in their employees with good paying jobs, they are creating this race to the bottom.Quote:Originally Posted by?s1alker?It's getting to the point where the average working stiff consumer can only afford to buy the cheap Chinese made crap you find on the shelves of Walmart.Yep.Quote:Originally Posted by?sandsthetime?Funny, American businessmen are the same way. They want the most talented workers at the cheapest wages possible.Yep, see race to the bottom.Quote:Originally Posted by?Den0190?Very true. I'd love to buy the best quality, most expensive items around (who wouldn't?), but I simply have to shop within my means. If you can't afford to buy items at a mom 'n pop shop, then your options are to shop at a Wal-Mart-esque store or live without. I'm sure more people would love to support small businesses if they could afford to.This is the problem today, we don't see the wages to have those options.Quote:Originally Posted by?ss20ts?Most of us can't afford a pair of Diesel jeans. No way on earth I would spend $400 on one pair of jeans! They also don't make them in my size. Many of their jeans only have a handful of sizes which won't fit the vast majority of the public. So yeah, most people are buying Levi's or other less expensive jeans because that's what they can afford. I know many people who would love to buy jeans that are around $100 or more, but can't justify it because of what we do to jeans and/or priorities in life.Exactly. There's people that shop at Buckle but it isn't as many as people who buy jeans at say Sears or Penney's at the same mall.Originally Posted by?BobNJ1960?Cook is doing his job, which is to maximize shareholder value for HIS company. Not to feather the nest of other industries while his corp takes excess cost on the chin.PS: Someone willing to work for less than you is not a slave, anymore than a car dealer selling a model for 2% less enslaves the dealer with the higher price.Right, sure - because sending all the jobs overseas for pennies on the dollar is a great idea... Let me know how that shareholder value works out for you once all the jobs are gone. Oh, wait - it "can't happen to you" and anyone who has their job sent overseas clearly "deserved it."?As for the "not slaves" comment, have you SEEN the conditions in those factories? The caged-in apartments? The suicides? Geez, take a while to look up from your stock portfolio and actually see what's going on here.Gotta love watching people stand in line to justify the destruction of their nation while being tossed pennies in stock profits in return for dollars in lost wages. Idiots...?Exploitation, that's what Apple is good at. Cheap labor, offshoring money to avoid taxes, false claims of being environmentally responsible.Just the usual fluff B.S. by corporate types to justify shafting the American worker.Not enough skilled workers my rear end, they've been spouting that nonsense for decades.Originally Posted by?TexasLawyer2000?You're actually wrong. There is a huge skill shortage... but not in low skilled jobs. It exists in high-skilled jobs.What kind of stupid nonsense is this? What high-skilled jobs are you referring to?I hope to god you're not referring to programming/IT jobs or a multitude of other engineering jobs. There are plenty of people here that can fill panies just like to pull strict requirements for a job out of their angoos so they can cry "We need an H1B for this position". Government workers are normally too stupid to know that finding someone with "15 years of experience in Ruby on Rails" is impossible because Ruby on Rails has only been around for 10.It's a sham, and it's nothing but an effort by businesses to pad their pockets by not obeying the law.Originally Posted by?Yakscsd?Few people choose to be a CEO. It happens as a result of years of hard work, commitment and loyalty. How would you outsource that?Pretty easily actually. Merge with a foreign company, and watch shareholders and board members slowly select foreigners to these positions.?CEO's do not represent some great skill set. By far their engineers often work hard and longer then most CEO's. And commitment and loyalty? They will learn just as American workers have learned, that believing in that from corporations is a fools game. Look at how many here comment that a corporations only job is to make shareholders money.You know why there's a high skills shortage? Because US college grads with high honors in math and science can't find a starting job paying enough to support a family. Why should any Americans smart enough to take on a high skills job making peanuts while some college drop outs are making 6 figures doing sales. We are the land of sales people.No, there isn't a shortage in high-skilled jobs. Do you have any facts to back up your silly claim that there is, other than the usual "defend big business no matter what nonsense they say?"The STEM Crisis Is a Myth - IEEE SpectrumHere's the key takeaway quote:A Matter of Supply vs. Demand: Every year U.S. schools grant more STEM degrees than there are available jobs. When you factor in H-1B visa holders, existing STEM degree holders, and the like, it’s hard to make a case that there’s a STEM labor shortage."Is it possible that a few high-skill fields have shortages? Sure - though you'd need to present your evidence instead of just bobble-heading in lock-step agreement with your corporate masters. Is it possible things have improved a bit since this study was done 2 years ago? Sure - but you're kidding yourself if you think the situation has radically improved. Seriously - look at those charts and then tell me with a straight face that there' a "skilled labor shortage" across the board.There isn't any such skills shortage, but some people are just so eager to blame everyone but those in power... such as blaming the consumer, who while admittedly cheap probably can't afford anything but low-price products because - guess what - their jobs now pay a fraction of what they once paid.Originally Posted by?TexasLawyer2000?No other country competes with the U.S. in management skills. A few in Europe and Asia come close but not at competitive rates. Your suggestion is quite ludicrous.Lol - what? No other nation may compete with the US in management PAY, but given the utter incompetence of many of our leaders, many of whom get paid fortunes just for showing up and who still receive golden parachutes even when they completely destroy their company, calling them a model of skill AND cost efficiency is one of the most ignorant and ludicrous statements I've read on this forum.Just another laughable example of "Well, clearly they are great because everyone is paid what they are worth, and we pay them a lot, so they must be worth a lot." Fail logic is fail.Originally Posted by?Rambler123?This is no skilled labor shortage. It is nothing but excuses made by sociopath businessmen who either want the world for under minimum wage or who are simply so ignorant that they honestly don't understand why they can't find a combination electrical / mechanical/ chemical engineer with 10 years of experience in Windows 7, NX 11, Matlab, Fluent, and Lotus Notes.A few articles that point to the facts vs. whatever BS some outsourcing sociopath executive claims is the truth:-?The STEM Crisis Is a Myth - IEEE Spectrum-?Skills Gap a Convenient Myth | Labor Notes-?The Skills Gap Myth: Why Companies Can't Find Good People | There is no skills gap - there is a lack of jobs, even in fields once considered safe, like engineering.Exactly. Companies just want to find an excuse to find cheaper labor.They'll make excuses that Americans want "too much money."?So if Americans were paid the rates that they pay overseas workers, housing costs would have to be drastically reduced or most people would be homeless, most Americans would go on food stamps, and the U.S. would have to offer free healthcare -- oh wait . . .Originally Posted by?oldtrader?5: The need for tool and die makers has declined. Let me give you an example.Tim Cook, and many other American CEOs, claim there is a shortage.?They also seem to prefer whatever China is doing, since that is where their widgets are being made. They have not entirely committed themselves to automation the way the US has.?Either way, the US cannot compete. We decided that 20 years ago.?Quote:Originally Posted by?greywar?Pretty easily actually. Merge with a foreign company, and watch shareholders and board members slowly select foreigners to these positions.?CEO's do not represent some great skill set. By far their engineers often work hard and longer then most CEO's. And commitment and loyalty? They will learn just as American workers have learned, that believing in that from corporations is a fools game. Look at how many here comment that a corporations only job is to make shareholders money.Precisely. They have no more loyalty to a company than a worker. Probably less actually, due to the golden parachutes that come standard. American CEOs are no more valuable than their foreign competition, even though they are paid many times more. I'm sure there are plenty of business savvy folks in China and India who would work just as hard for $250,000/yr.My personal experience is that employers are replacing expensive US citizen staff with contract H1B slave labor. For example, the largest cable company in the United States canned about 2/3 of their engineers in metro-Philly and replaced them with Indian H1B contractors supplied by Infosys. When their H1B expires, they go back to India and work on the same projects there. This is what is supposed to be a regulated monopoly. It's totally evil.Part of the problem with skilled labor is that we do not want to train the unskilled IT workers to become skilled IT workers. The IT companies do not want to invest in the IT workers creating this shortage just to keep wages down.Originally Posted by?SCguy81?Apple produces some pretty neat stuff. They capitalize on a culture of consumerism and conspicuous consumption, not to mention favorable US Tax Codes, to create tremendous shareholder value. .Apple takes advantage of the highly educated and creative people available in the US and in other Western countries. It takes their ideas, pays them well and takes care of them. But when it is time to actually make things that requires the blue color work force, it could not care less. It farms out this work to Chinese and during the reign of Jobs closed their eyes on the vast human suffering in the plants that made I-Phones. And apparently it pays very little US tax. So in a sense, it took unfair advantage of the US education and culture while contributing to the decline of the blue color manufacturing jobs here. At the same time it ruthlessly essentially exploited Chinese workers. In a sense, Apple is a global parasite taking advantage of everything in every country they operate and not giving much in return.. That is why I never buy any of their products.But in all fairness, I feel that the situation above is slightly changing. Chinese labor costs are going up as there is more scrutiny about the labor conditions there. Apple has shifted some of their assembly work here. As the prices in China continue to rise and as the environment devastation there worsens, US might become a more attractive place for assembling their products.Corporate America killed training because it's cheaper to outsource right now and kill the future. Hire experienced American IT workers to train cheap, inexperienced, and hard-working immigrants who can't ask for real US wages.Many immigrant IT workers I've met started off just like American students, they graduate some random degree but were lined up for whatever IT entry job then they receive training and evaluated to see which specialization they are good at then they're awarded assignments to take on high-skills position and having an American IT worker train them.?In essence the US companies created this problem and their band-aid approach is to go cheap and scrap by.Any dotcom out there starting out, they must go with Americans to build up quickly then outsource to be competitive. The only Americans left that can carry the load are the ones that held full-time jobs in the early 2000 and are proficient enough to stay relevant.?Most new college grad out of college are not motivated enough to compete for a high skill but low pay IT job. You can make better starting money selling insurance or cars than trying to get into IT today.?US companies together have successfully dismantled and destroyed our technological competitive edge for the next generations to come. All future technological designs, implementation, and human resource will have to come overseas.?This is the endgame:Intel will lose their foundry technical edge very soon to Korea, Samsung with the help of Apple already outproduce Intel because of mobile devices.?Apple is completely dependent on foreign manufacturing and designs to some degree. They only own patents to software, very little hardware patents.Boeing is predicted to lose their airplane making dominance to China in the next 20+ yrs.Pharmaceutical industry will move completely overseas to get around government regulation and India owns practically 1/2 of new medicine development and mfg.All this is happening because companies are using Wall Street mentality, invest on the cheap, destroy the future. The 1% will control everything here because the turned our economy into a fleamarket.Tim Cook, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, etc., will always complain about a "skills gap" and "labor shortage." Their companies reject 99.9% of applicants to their very few open positions. They've come to expect that anyone who works for them should have a Ph.D. in Computer Science from Stanford or Cal-Tech.I'd like to know how many Americans actually know what a die maker is anymore. Tim Cook claims he cannot find enough Americans with this skill set. This was among the many staple industrial trades that built America and made it great once upon a time. For we knew certain that if anyone messed with us, we could take care of business on our own terms.As of late, pencil neck weasel CEOs have made certain that investing in such businesses is a losing proposition. They've also made certain that we will depend on nations that don't like us for generations to come. The people who have made such decisions are not Americans. They are traitors.?I wish more Americans valued self sufficiency.Originally Posted by?hbdwihdh378y9?If they say there's a labor shortage, they're not paying the market rate. And people who aren't authorized to work in this country obviously aren't part of the labor market in this country.Exactly, it is a shortage of people with the skills they want to work for the pennies on the dollar they are offering.Most of lower/mid level America have seen the pay gap increase between highly-skilled+management and them. They do not understand why this is - and there is no real explanation why. The work Tim Cook does is the same work someone else did just 50 years ago, yet Tim Cook is getting paid multitudes times more for the same work. People lower below also see many times their company get worse or go under but the CEO and top level management still get paid more and more. I worked in the financial industry 5-6 years ago and I worked up from entry level to director level with direct reports. My salary changed about 4-5% in the process even though I got many more responsibilities. One or two years in a row everyone in the company got small/smaller year-end bonuses while it was a public secret that upper level management had iron-clad agreements to get their bonuses no-matter-what. We only accepted interns into the company that were "someone's children" (family of high-level employees) that went to prestigious/expensive universities - these kids had their path set in life. I watched a guy get hired into a SVP level position and hardly show up for work. After 18 months (!) he got canned but not before collecting huge paychecks and the payout for the rest of his contract - it cost the company money to get rid of him. Meanwhile, if you asked for a bigger bonus or pay raise that probably did not equal even 1/10th of what he was paid - you were told "no".I have been in software development all my life and have always been ahead of the curve in terms of jobs, predicting the "new thing" etc. I am seeing increasingly ads for Sr. level positions that are really 2-3 people in one position. However, the companies are only looking for one person, not 2-3. They are willing to pay well but these are positions that will result in that person not having any life or being able to see their family at all - the companies know it and to make up for it they come up with crap like "looking for rock star employees" or offering free lunches at work or ping pong tables and what not. Maybe playing ping-ping at work is something you do when you are 21, not when you are 40 and have a family.People see the above stuff and they correctly deduce that hard work and education are not necessary to succeed in America anymore. Everyone thinks that being a salesman, in management or in marketing or selling real-estate is a better gig - low stress, low responsibility and yet you get paid more for doing less.I still cannot fathom how anyone who is a patriot can own something that Apple "makes". If for nothing else but for tax avoidance schemes where they keep their cash outside of the country. Many people in USA get "nabbed" for pennies by the IRS, they get stressed out, threatened, scared, have to negotiate, argue, worry etc. - not Apple - they can legally sit on a $100 billion somewhere in Europe and not pay a dime of taxes - yet people here will still buy their overpriced s*it.I say the first step to a better system is to make them pay taxes here and now and close the loopholes. They also need to fix all the tax loopholes with their stock options, bonuses, investments etc. If it is convertible into income, it should be taxed as income. Wanna make money in America? Pay taxes in America. I do.After that, they need to fix the mess with the Universities - there is no reason why Harvard should be sitting on $30+ billion tax-free endowments. Make the pay taxes. I do.After that, fix the mess with the student loans - it creates indentured servants out of people before the people have had a chance to become people. It also encourages poor-quality education and encourages rising tuition. What is the incentive for University X to lower their tuition or promote better education standards if they are virtually guaranteed money by the government via student loans? Once money is out of the equation, academia can come back to the only reason academia should exist - to educate and do research.There are gross inefficiencies in the system and they are starting to make a huge impact.The thing with college in America is that it's not for the sake of becoming educated, but to have a piece of paper that allows you to apply for jobs that require that piece of paper. It's totally different abroad where educating citizens is seen as investment rather than the for-profit education system we have in America.Originally Posted by?andywire?Wrong. Parenting. Genetics. This all comes first. Of course, that doesn't stop parents from blaming the school system for their failure.My parents both worked full time and did not have much time for me. I am a product of my school with little parenting input that was hands on. Yes, they took interest in my academic progress and it was mandatory that I do well, no excuses. However, I come from a society where school was very strict, organized and we were exposed to science subject literally from the beginning. What I see in American schools is a joke. We have a teacher next door who prides herself for being part of the group of teachers that made the school give every student a tablet (iPad). Besides making Tim Cook rich and gluing the kids to a screen 24/7, what is the practical value of this crap? In primary school you should be teaching cursive writing, English, science, basic math, chemistry, physics, etc. etc. You should be teaching them through developing the mental apparatus, on basic theory and then reinforcing with exercises that require someone to sit down and solve a 100-500 problems before sitting for an exam. This requires patience and is the only true and tested way to teach. Instead, they teach kids through "projects" implemented on the iPad and by high school kids can choose what subjects to take (thus avoiding what they dislike). Well, turns out most people dislike math, physics, basic science (all of which require basic problem solving and critical thinking at its core). Then you wonder why the world is full of people who cannot even figure out a basic bank loan interest or make basic life financial decisions, thus robbing themselves of a better and easier future. Not to mention that such people are totally useless at work. Nobody has the time and patience to teach someone to use their nogan at the basic level at the age of 38.All I see is people trained to retain information and work in depth on a few things but still lacking basic thinking/problem solving skills. Their parents pay taxes and (correctly) expect that the school is responsible for teaching these.For most corporations and Americans in general the above (retaining information and being narrowly trained in a set of procedures) is the very definition of "education". When people say "you should move on and re-train" they mean learn a new set of procedures. Like a chimpanzee in a test facility. For someone with a college degree in a scientific field this may be fairly easy. For someone with a basic high school education, the only thing they can retrain to do is go from laying pipe to driving a truck. The leap to something higher is nigh impossible, unfortunately. Eventually the oil will run out and the masses of pipe layers, platform workers, truck drivers etc. will stop and realize that they don't know how to do anything else.Most college grads that I've met that are hired into a big corporation will usually quit or leave within 1 year. They realized all the things they learned in college like critical thinking, writing proper English, and working as teams on a project doesn't apply in the real world.Your college education prepares you the ability to read instructions and fill out a job application that's really it. You'll later realize how little value your college education really matters on the job. Most job responsibilities are taught by co-workers and improvised by watching other people that's called experience.?People who achieved high honors in college usually are the quickest to leave a starting job because as a new recruit you're not special anymore. You'll meet a boss that will force you to recite all the wrong things that you learned not to do in college.For women, it's even worse because there are women that graduated from Ivy League schools and they're nothing more than coffee getters and just fresh meat for older men to use or abuse at many Hedge Funds or Venture Capitalist companies. They love your college education but they appreciate your choice of attire more and often prefer you doing nothing than working. I've sat near a young lady at a hedge fund and all she does all day is sit and look pretty and answer whenever her boss tells her to go into his office with the door close and then back out after 20-30mins of who knows what's going on inside. Can't be work related as she's totally clueless at the job.My son said he was asked if he could work with black people? He said he looked around the room and he was the only white person in the room. This was a company that has been visited by Obama several times. Now tell me how a company cannot find one white person in the area that is qualified for the job. Black girl that was less qualified than he is was hired. He knew about her qualifications because their jobs had gone overseas from the last place they both worked. My son was kept on for a few months to train the new employees from India. He didn't like training his replacements but he has a wife and at that time he had two children and his wife was expecting another child. He has to take care of his family.White male is the most discriminated against class in America.My son is a veteran that has a top secret clearance and he is treated this way. He served in Desert Storm. Something very wrong going on in this country. I think that is the biggest cause of this bad economy. The most diversified rather than the most qualified are being hired. He is working very hard at the new business he started but it is hard for him. I am so proud of him and his love for his family.Big companies tend to be cheap on their employees. The one I work for is a big company, but they are cheap. The benefits are not as great, but okay. They don't have holiday parties in our office, only the main one. Some other regional offices do have parties. They don't have free coffee hear either. I mentioned this to the admin and said if we had coffee here, it would keep us in the office instead of a line at Starbucks. I heard that before I arrived, the had just gotten the water cooler. Meanwhile, the home office has an executive dining room, a cafeteria and a town hall. It's hard to get good raises too.I have worked for a private companies where they take you to lunch or cocktails, have holiday parties, free coffee and food, and more holidays off, and better benefits.?Smaller companies may have it's benefits. I have worked for some, but the benefits were not as great.Originally Posted by?MetroWord?I think upper management people in bigger companies look at the big picture whereas management in small companies are too preoccupied with small insignificant details. Probably why they remain small.And the top brass in smaller companies try to save every penny they can. The guy I worked under at my last company, a small startup in the travel industry, was the biggest cheapskate you'd ever meet, as were the owners.?The tradeoff in most small companies: You get to exercise more creativity, and there's little to no red tape getting in your way. But the pay and benefits usually leave a lot to be desired.Originally Posted by?JennStar?Big companies tend to be cheap on their employees. The one I work for is a big company, but they are cheap. The benefits are not as great, but okay. They don't have holiday parties in our office, only the main one. Some other regional offices do have parties. They don't have free coffee hear either. I mentioned this to the admin and said if we had coffee here, it would keep us in the office instead of a line at Starbucks. I heard that before I arrived, the had just gotten the water cooler. Meanwhile, the home office has an executive dining room, a cafeteria and a town hall. It's hard to get good raises too.I have worked for a private companies where they take you to lunch or cocktails, have holiday parties, free coffee and food, and more holidays off, and better benefits.?Smaller companies may have it's benefits. I have worked for some, but the benefits were not as great.Smaller firms typically have better perks than big ones if you're just a normal employee. For example at many small firms they give free food on Fridays or dress down in the summer. Big firms can't openly do that because it's difficult and expensive to give out free stuff to a large worker population.?I worked at a big bank, they have their own food services. They do give certain dept and people free food simply scanning your badge. While most regular workers have to pay full price. You figure it should be the other way around where they offer free food to lower pay folks. It doesn't work that way because there's less overpaid bosses so they basically offer the 5% the most perks at big firms and less perks towards the 95%Small firms you normally see the owners and bosses eat with the workers while big firms the execs are all using expense accts and eating at fancy places.Why would anyone go to a for-profit school vs a community college? Do they not read the internet and know those colleges are a ridiculously over-priced sham and their degrees are actually a turnoff for most employers. It is like a degree certifying you make bad decisions.My sister used to work at Everest College and they had 'goals' to enroll these poor saps. They sought out people from 'underrepresented' areas who would need to apply for loans. It was a soul destroying job and thankfully she left 5 years ago before all the crap hit the fan.An associates degree in IT without experience is about as valuable as toilet paper. You really need a bachelors degree before you can get into decent paying IT jobs without experience.IT is a field where if you plan to go to college to study for it, at least have a part time job in the field because experience trumps a degree in IT.I think we actually work too much with the 40 hours a week but maybe that's just me. I am salary-exempt from overtime. When I work overtime which is pretty much every week, I do not get paid for it. My supervisor also expects me to work at night after work and on the weekends (again, NO OVERTIME PAY!) because they are paying me for quality. She actually said I get paid SO MUCH (less than $48k for a masters degree) so I should be expected to work more than 40 hours. Several people at my job have informed me and reminded me that I CAN WORK MORE THAN 40 HOURS so I can get everything done. My thing is, if I can't get everything done in 40 hours, maybe you are giving me too much?! I also think America has a problem with parents, as well. It's like oh you have a kid and you can't work crazy hours? Ew. Why would you have a family? I know in Japan in the bathroom stalls they have little seats for your kids to sit in. Small, but appreciated. I think that is the thing everyone in America thinks you should work work work with no appreciation, just be glad you have a job and aren't living in the streets; seeing your family and having days off is like a small bonus, not that family should come first! This is not a good or healthy way of living.Most degrees don't determine your life, your future unless you want to be a surgeon or do other extremely specialize jobs. Most of the time, it has to do with YOU and what YOU do with and for yourself. You determine the outcome of your life. It's a shame our society are brainwash people to go to college. Get out of college. Go to work. Education is important but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Think outside the box for once.The key to financial success is to have multiple streams of income. The days of relying on the 9-5 job to hold you down for the vast majority of Americans is pretty much overI agree with you OP. I wish I realized the futility of giving my best years to people who dont give a flying F about me. I work so they, or the omnipotent "team" can prosper. How noble. How many visits with good friends or relatives who are now gone did I miss for "the project"? Really, unless you are saving a child from a burning car or stopping the weekly wacko shoot-em-up, whatever anybody does is of no importance. People need to put life in perspective. Yeah, you will have to suffer a little soul crushing to survive, but never stop looking for opportunities to get out of the inanity of corporate life as it is, now. Six years away from retirement I wish I could have back a quarter of the overtime I wasted myself on. Simply not worth it in retrospect.Healthcare and money shuffling are the big living wage job areas. STEM is not all that great especially with companies constantly laying off, outsourcing, off-shoring, and screaming at lawmakers for an H1b free for all.Originally Posted by?city living?STEM isn't that great. Many of the jobs don't pay very well (just ask the lowly research technicians at places like Cornell-Weill, many with advanced degrees) and it isn't the end-all-be-all. Many people in these fields also have difficulties finding jobs.This is so true. I graduated with my chemistry degree a year ago and my first job out of college was a crap temp to hire job paying $17 an hour with no benefits for a lousy paper and plastics company that strung temps along for years with no job security and benefits.This month I finally started my first real full time chemist job with benefits with a salary paying fair market what a chemist should be making but I had to relocate to WV from GA to find a job in my profession.STEM is highly overrated, especially the general science degrees. Half of my classmates still haven't found a full time job yet and the other half gave up on looking and just took sales jobs/account executive jobs that have nothing to do with their chemistry degrees.?The only STEM degrees that have value are engineering and computer science. All the other ones are no better than liberal arts degrees.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?Healthcare and money shuffling are the big living wage job areas. STEM is not all that great especially with companies constantly laying off, outsourcing, off-shoring, and screaming at lawmakers for an H1b free for all.This is how most chemical and pharmaceutical companies get cheap labor to do their lab work. There are so many chemical and pharmacetuicals companies outsourcing science jobs it's ridiculous.?The only science jobs they are hesitant to outsourcing is analytical work. They seem to keep most analytical chemists jobs here in the states since some of their samples won't hold up being shipped overseas.All other research and development jobs are getting outsourced before you can say Indiachina.Even certain areas of health care are already saturated. Go look at the all nurses forum with countless people unable to find jobs. If they were as desperate as they say they are, it wouldn't be a problem. My area of health care also supposedly has a shortage and that's pretty laughable. According to everything and everyone, every area has a shortage.??Even my uncle who is an engineer knew of a lot of engineers having problems finding employment.Initially, my friend was a research technician. Who wants to be paid 33K a year with the pleasure of living in the most expensive places in the country (NYC) with an advanced degree? Please.The future looks even more bleak for STEM grads. As the market becomes even more saturated with STEM majors , have fun with only finding temp jobs with no benefits, and $15/hr or losing all the jobs to the visa crowdThe economy seems to be filled with a constant supply of low-wage, low-skill, temp, part-time employment. Even jobs that require some education and skill set are throwing out pay in the 9-12 dollar range. This has obviously been going on for years now but in the meantime living expenses have marched up.?With all the global recessions taking root, many economists are saying 2016 might begin another recession here in the US.I know there are many "exceptions" to this but this is what I have been noticing FOR YEARS. Most people seem to advocate chasing the good paying jobs or moving to a really expensive metro area in the hopes of making enough. But what about the opposite?Why not move to a really cheap city? If all that seems to be available is low pay jobs, why not move to a city with extremely cheap housing? Like Rust Belt/Deep South? I'm not talking about for the rest of your life (unless that is what you want) but why not accept another economic recession and plan accordingly?I know this can sound rather pessimistic, but seriously, why base your whole life around the economy getting better and "finally" getting a nice job? It's disheartening to think of how much time I've WASTED looking for better jobs, hoping for a recovery, learning new skills, re-writting my resume 1000 times, and following the news everyday. I could have invested all that time and energy into fixing up my modest house in a cheap city.Originally Posted by?midtown mile girl?Usually in the cheapest places to live, there are really no jobs.It's strange. Here in Rustbelt Pittsburgh, there aren't many jobs. But relatives in dynamic Washington dc, report the same: No jobs. Relocation doesn't seem to be the ticket, for whatever reason.?Essentially yes you do. The problem is you have more candidates than jobs today and as a result you many of people underemployed because companies know they can stick it to the workers since they have 100 out back standing in line for someone to leave.The wages won't rise because employers have figured out they can get the most out of the least. Five jobs placed on one person. Its an employer's market and when its an employer's they call ALL the shots.Employees are just going to continue to find themselves doing more and more work for little money.Wait around for the economy to get better ? You may as well wait around for a one eyed unicorn to fly you in breakfast. The employers will keep it an employers market as long as they can. Just so long as they find some poor suckers to do the jobs of 50 people. This will keep new positions from being createdI agree.?I don't foresee things getting any better. I'm underemployed because I lost my Administrative Assistant position this year. I'm trying to break into the administrative field because I have office experience, but it hasn't been easy.The thing about low wages jobs is that you can find them nearly anywhere. Therefore you can move to a place with a COL you can afford. You don't really have that option for the higher end jobs which are mostly located in major metros.Originally Posted by?deposite?I agree.?I don't foresee things getting any better. I'm underemployed because I lost my Administrative Assistant position this year. I'm trying to break into the administrative field because I have office experience, but it hasn't been easy.Yep.. And Im assuming you find yourself getting loaded with more and more work every year. This is what the employers are doing now. I have essentially absorbed all these different tasks that have nothing to do with the job I was hired to do. In fact, Im doing more work not even related to my job description than I am doing work related to my job description.The U.S. got hooked on cheap labor, and doesn't know how to function without it. Gee, I seem to recall an empire that collapsed as a result of this very thing... They were called Rome, and they were pretty significant once upon a time...stay the course being self-employed and not to get lured by big company benefits that have all but evaporated over time...Do not let anyone stand in your way or derail you. Do not do what you think you should do. Do what you love doing and if you can make a living doing that you will have a very happy life.?I'd say chase your dreams no matter what the cost. Chasing other people's dreams, like your parents, friends, people on TV, is BS. Life's too short for self induced BS.Don't listen to anyone else as it pertains to your career objectives. I spent a lot of moments early on in my career stressing that I wasn't good enough for this or that, and that I would never amount to anything or make any money because of what other "self-proclaimed experts" told me. For as much good as human beings do in this world, they can be absolutely horrendous towards their fellow humans.I've learned to block the naysayers out and focus on what I want to achieve. And I've been doing a pretty darn good job at it, too. **** the haters! Do what you want, never let anyone else tell you what you can or cannot achieve.?What advice would I give my younger self?Don't listen to anyone else's advice. Use and develop your common sense. Just because someone is an expert at something doesn't mean they want to see you succeed, and even if they did their way probably won't work any better than your way.1. Don't make the mistake of thinking that your employer cares about you. A "family environment" is a farce. You are simply there to perform a service and get paid for it, so don't take things at work personally.2. Money really doesn't mean that much. Two of the most miserable people I know are millionaires. The one millionaire I know who is happy has a nice house, but he goes on fewer vacations than I do since he works constantly.3. Live your life how you want and don't apologize for it.?4. Many people you encounter will not like you. Don't let them bother you.I am/was a starving artist. In the late 70's and 80's I had a great career as a freelance artist, but a few issues came along at the same time(Mac computers, unexpected child, etc) and I had to get a 'real' job. Freelancing means waiting for money a lot of the time, so I got into a peripheral trade that I actually liked and did well in. I have been there ever since. Now, retirement close by, I am going to go back and give it another shot to supplement retirement funds. There is nothing like being creative and being able to follow your bliss. Once you've done it, all other jobs are tedious and mundane. It's harder to take directions from dull, unimaginative and sneaky management types in corporate jobs, too. I would encourage anyone who even has a small chance to follow there bliss and only go to corporate or hourly work as a last resort, because you will never truly be happy in a corporate environment.The starving artists I know are all across the board. Some are still starving for their craft. A few have taken regular jobs and do art as a hobby. Some are college faculty, a couple are fashion photographers, I know a few musicians who make their living from tours and music sales, another that makes a good living contributing to Broadway musicals. A large number have gone into niche sales, like Renaissance festivals, and another guy does custom office interiors. A couple of designers, an architect, and another who does full scale commission installations.?Like all of us, their careers have generally thrown them some curveballs over the years, but making a very good living in the arts is definitely possible.Hi, so I was laid off back in 2014. Since then worked low paying full time job's or high paying part time job's. Been searching within my company for full time gigs, but continous part time job's or full time job's being filled by people with more year's.Trying to find per diem work, but nothing bites or too far away making it difficult to balance with current work schedule.Been able to pick up over 40 hour's last 4 month's at work, but now back to 24 and it's a bummer.Get this, I can't find a job and I have almost 20 years of experience in my field AND I just graduated college (studying the same field I have experience in.)I have never attended a job expo or job fair and wondered, do they really get you a job at those events? How do they work? Has anyone here been to one? What was your experience like?They work for certain jobs such as retail and usually high revolving door jobs. Telemarketers, sales people, and security jobs are always in demand.I've been to a few when I was younger, as have others that I know. For most (i'm talking over 95%), they do nothing.Edit: I'd still go just for the experience of interacting on a professional level. After a few times, I knew it would lead to nothing but I went anyway. It helped to keep my spirits up and keep me tuned. And you get free pens and maybe even a stress ball or water bottle!Depends on the expo/fair. If you are talking a new venture looking to fill all their positions, of course they will be hiring. If it's an industry event, they usually are looking but you have to know what they are looking for. And there are the generic open events where companies show up more to just collect names. So, which type are you talking about?I have been to many job fairs. I have never ever ever ever gotten a single job from one of these events.I have a theory on this.Say you have a lot of skills about a particular field. When you go to one of these job fairs, you're just another desperate job seeker. Recruiters at these events really don't see you as more than that. Just luck of the draw.I've had great successes working for several engineering firms. The hardest part was the first job where I had to convince them to give me a chance. But once I got my foot in the door, I never had a problem getting a job since.Originally Posted by?disneygogetter?I have never attended a job expo or job fair and wondered, do they really get you a job at those events?No, the job fair does not get you a job.YOU get you a job, maybe, by using contacts you might make at a job fair.I have found that these places are worthless.they tell you to apply online. Well then what's the point of going to a job fair. Save your money and time and just apply online then. I agree with the poster who said the people hosting those fairs treat you as just another desperate job seeker even if you are very skilled. Their attitude is "if you're as great as you say, then what are you doing here..." you're better off going to a conference or specific industry event in your field.Originally Posted by?le roi?Personally, I dropped out of Computer Science sometime around my Junior year of college, because I could see very clearly that American firms did not value tech talent. They would NEVER think of oursourcing their accounting and finance and legal to India, but they don't think twice about doing so to any kind of tech.And then you have the age discrimination, which is a serious problem. They burn you out before you hit 40, and if you don't make it to management by then, you're really vulnerable to being displaced by someone younger and cheaper.So yeah , I agree with what was said earlier, that there is no "shortage of STEM students" in America. There is a shortage of quality, stable STEM careers in America. Smart kids with high quantitative ability have no?need?to put up with that kind of crap.Spot on. One of our relatives just decided NOT to go to college to get a STEM degree once he saw his uncle and his dad (and their coworkers) get laid off non-stop. You can do very well in a trade and not be outsourced to India or China.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?I definitely agree that chemistry, biology, biochemistry and most related majors are poor choices for smart students. There is very poor demand for such majors and the demand that is there are terrible contract jobs with no benefits and wages fit for a garbage collector. There are some jobs that are decent. I finally managed to get a pretty good job. But it is mostly total crap. I would not advise nor even allow anyone in my family to major in science.The idea that the victims are just "subpar students" is just derogatory, dismissive, blame the victim nonsense. I've seen quite a few very intelligent people have their lives really messed up with a science degree especially the horror show that is science PhD programs. Although not written specifically for science PhD's in the US it very eloquently captures the many problems there.liv | Dear brilliant students:You captured the scene perfectly! There were opportunities in these fields 30 years ago and many of my colleagues did very well during the growth phase of these industries but the past eight years really has been abysmal. I feel bad young people who pursued these degrees are now in this position. I am now seeing a heavy and blatant prejudice with foreign hiring managers only hiring people of their own ethnicity in subordinate positions..??You would have been better off getting a business degree and having the "Animal House" experience while partying with hot chicks... Then get a 100K plus job off Wall Street ..?Sure I'm exaggerating, but it's fun..Past few years? It's since 1998, when those companies cried wolf about Year2000 meltdown which didn't happen.?By that time they had brought in foreign workers who not only didn't returm home, the companies ever since keep hiring more and more, on top of outsourcing the rest.?They systematically prevent well trained American workers from getting jobs.With over a trillion student loan debt and rising so fast it will make your head spin, they need high paying jobs just to somehow keep up. Many kids that are starting this year will over over $100K debt when they graduate thanks to the horrible greedy colleges that are growing and growing until the plug gets pulled. Sure is an ugly situation for our young folks, but they will live in debt forever. The banks are very happy about it and of course they run the government. Bailout anyone?Anyway, I don't think college students should automatically get high paying jobs. I don't think they do, unless they have a sought after degree.I think if the college degree makes the worker more valueable to the company then they should be paid a premium over a worker that does not have a degree.Unfortunately the disconnect and major fallacy is companies do not pay people for value added nor "what they are worth." They pay people as little as they are able to get away with. If they can get away with demanding and paying college grads the same rate as HS grads they will. At some point, however, people en mass will question whether it is worth their time and money to go to college and that will set off a very damaging cycle.No. Most people my age (college grads) would be happy with just a job in their career that pays at all.?But it seems unpaid internships are the only entry level positions available.I don't think they are entitled to high paying jobs, but I do think they should have recourse against a college that lies to them about the value of the degree they are selling. Used car dealers can't lie the way a college can, because we actually have lemon laws.Having colleges hand out degrees that are meaningless is a complete waste of time for everyone involved, but it continues because the people at the top of the chain get paid. It is a terrible system.I know someone with a Master's degree that is getting about minimum wage. The employment game is a horribly inefficient market.I am not sure what everyone else has said in the six pages but here's my thoughts.A college graduate is entitled to higher pay than what is offered. Currently many employees pay peanuts because they perceive the talent pool for their job is so big they can get someone to work for that pay-rate. I am not saying a college graduate is entitled to 50K off the bat (unless you are talking Engineering where people can easily make 80K out of college) but 30K rather than the at tops 15K they currently make upon graduation from minimum wage and just over minimum wage jobs. Why I say this is so they can pay down any loans taken out, and traditional living expenses and hopefully save.Originally Posted by?jessxwrites89?No one is entitled to a job, especially a job that pays 6 figures. I would just be happy with any job that pays a few dollars more than minimum wage. I think six figures by just starting out is unheard of - in my experience, I think most start (around here) at $9 or $10/hour or a salary of more than $30K.$9-$10/hr with a degree? Lol I worked as a janitor making that and you think I will accept that after slaving away for 4 years earning a degree? Im definitely entitled to more than thatOriginally Posted by?urbex?These are great examples of the reasons why I don't believe I'll have ANY problem retaining employment in my old age if I have to. If the employer's choices are between the old guy and the young fools with the entitlement ethics...I'm fairly certain I will have nothing to worry about?What is so "entitled" about wanting 30K rather than 15K? 15K isn't a living wage when you look at the costs to truly be self-sufficient and start saving and making monthly student loans. And if they are not able to get healthcare through their employer due to working under 30 hours a week, being an independent contractor or being in a company of less than 50 employees as well as being an employer that was given a year break from the mandate, forget about it.I'm glad someone is revelling in another man's misery.Originally Posted by?Mr.2089?$9-$10/hr with a degree? Lol I worked as a janitor making that and you think I will accept that after slaving away for 4 years earning a degree? Im definitely entitled to more than thatThis is why people have to do their due diligence and realize that going to college isn't all it's cracked up to be. There are MANY jobs that pay well without a degree. I have one. I quit college when I started my own business. Then my business failed. Then I found a job where I got promoted. Now I make way more than most college grads.Is the current situation really a free society and are a job and the wage offered not coerced??We have a high supply compared to demand at a 5-1 applications to open jobs ratio in the highest of the complied data and it is most likely much higher as it only includes the compiled unemployed and underemployed but not those who are underpaid for their skills or are fully employed but not technically underemployed. Companies STILL think it is 2009 with debt and have that 5 to 1 applicant to job ratio so they think they can low ball and over work employees. A job seeker is mostly coerced into taking the job even if they will be underpaid because they cannot find any other work. Isn't that "bullying" as well?Also if nobody is entitled to a wage, why are CEOs allowed to make 200 to 1 the rate of the average worker of their company and still be entitled to money even if they run it into the ground? How can the CEO hold the proverbial gun to the head of the board but anytime a normal employee does it, we jump on the employee?FYI, there have been NO "free societies" since the end of nomadic tribes unless you include those in Africa or Central and South Africa. All have been coerced in some way since medieval Europe.Laizee-fare economics will never work. And you know why that is, business owners as a collective are greedy. Whether it is those who were in Theodore Roosevelt's crosshairs in the 1900's, Franklin Roosevelt's in the 1930's, in the 2000's with Bush signing Sarbanes-Oaxley or those that think Obama are after industries (mainly coal if you believe that.) In the past 20 years we have seen businesses close shops and off-shore to India, Bangeldesh, Taiwan, China, Nicoragua and other countries because "America is too expensive to run in" while the CEO who made that idea got a bonus and more stock options, they with high ranking financial officers cooked the books to get gains on their stock options while companies falled hurting employees and stockholders, drove companies into the ground but had their golden parachutes and still got paid while employees were left in the cold and profit off of employees on going on welfare instead of contributing to healthcare for employees, so the nation covers them, not the company.My friend the U.S. is dying a not so slow death economically. College only gives you a 50/50 ticket to get in the top 20%. And the bottom of the top 20% from 10-20 is simply living a traditional middle class lifestyle with savings and modest retirement they're not even living large. At this point at least 50% of the country is living paycheck to paycheck or in borderline poverty.?This article and the videos are sobering. College is only going to save a few people not even close to the majority.?This is not good:Prison ? 50 Percent Of American Workers Make Less Than 28,031 Dollars A Year"Here are some more numbers from?the report?that the Social Security Administration just released…-39 percent?of American workers?made less than $20,000 last year.-52 percent?of American workers?made less than $30,000 last year.-63 percent?of American workers?made less than $40,000 last year.-72 percent?of American workers?made less than $50,000 last year."God help all those now and in the future who can't get into the top 20%. That's 80% of the people, 8 out of 10, looking at a fairly poor to really bad quality of life. In the future the number probably becomes top 15 or 10 percent going by the trends of the last of the last 30 or so years especially about the last 15 years. This country's economy is busted. The underlying fundamentals are horrible and the Fed has been keeping this thing going on easy money and duct tape.?I can't even imagine what's in store for the future if we do not get a new monetary system. Because the trends are horrible. I don't think college graduates are entitled to 6 figure jobs but at the same time its kind of messed up that you go to college psend the time effort and money and come out making 30k, you can make more than that managing a fast food restaurant working fulltime. In previus generations you can say oh start at the bottom and work your way up but today with no loyalty from companies why should I bust my butt for someone who will drop me at the drop of a hat as soon as it makes a difference to their bottom line, hard work and starting at the bottom is not rewarded anymore so someone would have to be a sucker to do that.From my experience I have meet very few college grads who expected 6 figures straight out of school (outside of joking around). What I more commonly hear is: "Well I hope to start at 35-45k and slowly work my way up". -I do not thing that is to unrealistic.?But here is the problem, assuming 30k is the bottom, even landing that 30k job can take quite some time to the point that you may never climb your way up from 30k or it will take you quite some time. The biggest issue I see now is there is no bottom to climb your way up the company ladder or the bottom has so many restrictions (needs experience, specific degree) that for many it is unattainable.No, college graduates are not entitled to better paying jobs just because of the degree but they are definitely entitled to try for better paying jobs that'll reap the benefits and monetary benefits of the degree. In other words, if they don't get paid what they're expecting after spending all the time, effort, and money in the degree, don't expect them to stay for long.Getting references from past employers is easier said then done. If your an employer and a good employee left your company would you take time to write/give them a reference? Unless you realize you may need one some day? Any ideas on this? I am applying for a job and instead of letters or phone numbers they want emails of past employers. So they can send them an email reference to fill out. I guess it would be harder to lie on it. I keep sending the company email address but they clam no one is responding. I emailed my old employers and they clam they responded back.My least favorite part of interviewing. People seem very uncomfortable when I tell them they cannot contact 80% of the companies I have worked for because they are all out of business. While I have contacts they can use, the simple fact is a lot of companies have either been taken over or gone out of business.People seem to want to live in this bubble world and pretend everything is fine. Meanwhile, we have a gigantic portion of the working public not even looking for a job because they have been demoralized by multiple rejections.Even though I am working my shopping pattern has completely changed after a long period between jobs. I had no idea you could get so many wonderful clothes from Goodwill and consignment shops. I got a down coat with the tags on it for $12 - full retail is $300. Never paying full price again.I worked for one company that would often job out ONE job to half a dozen different temp firms and just let them beat the bushes for them. All they were concerned about was the price tag.I personally like shaming people for offering absurdly low wages. For an accounting position in a major city offered $13 to 15/hr and I pointed out my cousin makes $18/hr hanging drywall.Today its low pay with high responsibilities as employees are completely abused today. I RARELY see low pay, low responsibility anymore.Originally Posted by?DorianRo?Today its low pay with high responsibilities as employees are completely abused today. I RARELY see low pay, low responsibility anymore.You have the right to say GFY. They take the hint after they hear this enough...So long as people line up for low paying, high responsibility work, they will continue to be made the butt end of a joke. It's as simple as that.It's outsourcing to 3rd world countries, illegal immigrants, and H1-B's that are dragging wages down.I know a guy who moved here from Cambodia about 4 or 5 years ago. He works with me making $8.00/hr. One day I was joking with him and I said "Yeah the pay really sucks here doesn't it?" He gave me a strange look and said "Are you crazy, everyday I feel like I have won the lottery." He was serious when he said that. According to him if a person made $8/hr. where he was from, that they would be considered extremely wealthy. See the point here?This wouldn't be so bad if our cost of living here in the US wasn't so extreme. Making $8/hr. would be OK if we had 1950's prices again, like gas for 25 cents a gallon, new cars for $4,000, and new homes for $25,000.Originally Posted by?zoomzoom3?It's outsourcing to 3rd world countries, illegal immigrants, and H1-B's that are dragging wages down.I know a guy who moved here from Cambodia about 4 or 5 years ago. He works with me making $8.00/hr. One day I was joking with him and I said "Yeah the pay really sucks here doesn't it?" He gave me a strange look and said "Are you crazy, everyday I feel like I have won the lottery." He was serious when he said that. According to him if a person made $8/hr. where he was from, that they would be considered extremely wealthy. See the point here?This wouldn't be so bad if our cost of living here in the US wasn't so extreme. Making $8/hr. would be OK if we had 1950's prices again, like gas for 25 cents a gallon, new cars for $4,000, and new homes for $25,000.No kidding... I was told by a certain someone who works for a certain company that they were planning to save tons of money by replacing one American with two people from India (something like 1,000 Americans gone and replaced with 2,000 Indians). This is a company that isn't going out of business anytime soon and still makes plenty of money despite the recession. They're just greedy SOB's taking advantage of the current situation (since it's not unusual to announce a round of layoffs).The H1B visa program needs to go, pronto!Unfortunately, it is not the H1B programs. The US has not filled all the H1B's this year because a lot of people are not coming to the US right now.It is the companies who are sending the business overseas to places like India and China and Malaysia.I just worry about my children. Why should they even bother with college, any profession they go into will either be outsourced or pay so little here its a joke!I can understand that. I'm a recent unemployed college graduate. I actually received a few job offers, but they were $27,000-30,000. To me that's unacceptable so I turned them down. I don't want to live like I lived in college. Paycheck to paycheck, no savings, no money to use if I had an emergency, eating Ramen, etc. Luckily I have a family that will put me up until I get what I'm looking for.?I would advise anyone going into college to not even bother unless it's for something that's highly needed. No offense to anyone, but if you're going to school to major in Liberal Arts then it will be really tough on you. Better to teach yourself those types of skills on your own time and save alot of money. For those of you going on your parents' dollar, do them a favor and major in something that will give them a return on their investment.The large company I work for has not given salary increases for two years now and my husbands job in the non profit sector has frozen their 403B contributions, and frozen pay. Teachers in the area are not expecting raises for another couple years. So if you have a job expect your standard of living to drop about 7 percent a year as costs go up and wages stay the same. Welcome to the new America.What I've found is that even a lower paying job at a good company wants the employees to go above and beyond at all times. They basically want u doing way more than what you signed up for. It's not right. It's like if u just do your job they want to get rid of you to find someone who will do your same job but twice the amount of work. I work in customer support in boston, made 60k last year and I don't do as much work as my Co workers. And I know they are burnt out. My dept head basically wants us to be customer support, analytics, and I'm some cases engineering.Originally Posted by?eyeb?cost isn't much... college debt is about 1 year's salary...And years that could have been spent working.It is now because colleges are churning out a billion more college graduates than positions being created for them when they get out of school. Finding a college grad is a dime a dozen today. Finding a good paying job with perks and benefits is hard to find.But thats what happens when employers have all the power and leverage. Work your skeleton crew to the bone while making record profits. They can create more positions but know they don't have toOriginally Posted by?te3t?Have the Career Center that is recommended by Unemployment help you locate full-time employment. That's how I found my full-time job because most employers prefer referrals rather than being contacted directly from someone on the outside.If that was/is that much help then more people would be finding jobs that way. I personally have never had luck finding a decent enough paying job through them anymore than any other means of job searching. Actually I have better luck with other means of job searching where I at least can land an interview once in awhile.In some areas it is by far the largest data base of people looking to hire, many local companies and/or offices will not use the large job boards for some reason, but they will post jobs on craigslist every time they need someone. I saw it all the time in northern Colorado and now on the western slope of Colorado, but in the Denver metro area it seems to be much harder to find real jobs on Craigslist.Originally Posted by?johnp292?This thread is six and a half years old, but the fact today is the same as it was in 2009...don't expect to find decent jobs on Craigslist. No self-respecting company would post job ads there.Oh, it is not just craigslist, those insulting wages/salaries are posted on every job site. And the blame/fault is not the job sites. That has nothing to do with it. It is the EMPLOYERS. Plain and simple. They are taking complete advantage of people. I swear, the more these companies make and the more they expect from employees, the lower the pay gets. It is unbelievable and ridiculous.Originally Posted by?eok?Depressing salaries is not the main purpose of hiring H1B's. They often get the same salary as American workers, but work twice as many hours for that salary. And they're?a lot less likely to leave for a better job, because other companies are less likely to hire them because of the paperwork. In STEM it's often very valuable to the employer to have some confidence that their STEM employees are?not going to suddenly leave for better jobs. From the employer's point of view, that makes them better employees. More dedicated and more productive. Because, working twice as many hours, they often get almost twice as much work done. So it's a double bonus for employers. More reliability, in not leaving the job, and?more productivity, in working twice as many hours for the same salary.Twice as many hours for the same pay is essentially bringing down pay. Production per hourly rate. And if STEM workers leave one job for a better job, then doesn't that imply the first job didn't pay enough? They'd have to raise the pay to keep the worker. So they use the H1B worker who is less likely to switch jobs to avoid having to pay the premium of keeping a different worker. Again, keeping the pay lower.Your information sort of contradicts your initial statement.Well that is the thing, the reasoning is a bit of a contradiction in the first place. Pay somewhat high but require longer hours to keep (per hour pay low) and drive pay lower by bringing in H1B visa workers.I do a search by zipcode using Indeed to find local employers. If something looks interesting, I then go to the company's website to apply directly. I've always applied direct vs. search engines.I have done it, and prefer applying on the direct site vs indeed. I seem to get farther faster that way. Its hard to think up all the different companies within your area but do all the ones you know. Then you can search your city name and businesses in search engine and usually you can find a list of all company names. It helps you to remember what else is out there.If you work in a 'right to work state', you can get fired for no reason at all.?Any employer who would fire an employee because it was unsafe to travel in a winter storm situation is a total a$$!I'm sorry, but I can't think of a single thing at my job that is important enough to risk your life driving to work during a snowstorm. I've done it, but I think this profit-minded impersonal "40 hours of work or get out" mindset is sickening.I understand if your job is saving lives, you're in a tough spot. I wouldn't want firemen or ambulance drivers, doctors, nurses to not be there when they're needed, but for the general public who cares. "Where's Jim?" "Oh, he died this morning when his car slid off the road and rolled over into a culvert" "Oh bummer! I guess we have to hire a new greeter. Jim RIP." Ugh.Originally Posted by?johnp292?This thread is six and a half years old, but the fact today is the same as it was in 2009...don't expect to find decent jobs on Craigslist. No self-respecting company would post job ads there.I don't agree with this. I've seen quite a few companies that I know in this area (good companies, too - usually just smaller) who have posted ads on Craigslist. I will say that the admin jobs section (specifically) used to be full of crap from spammers, but it seems that CL has cleaned that up.In regards to the low paying jobs... Corn-fused is right. All of the job hunting sites have that mess. They want you to have 5+ years of experience AND a bachelors degree, do the job of at least two people and pay a piddly $8-$12 an hour (if that). I remember seeing simple data entry jobs that paid $9 an hour back in 1999 when I was first looking for work. Completely ridiculous.Are you frustrated applying for hundreds of jobs still waiting for a phone call back for an interview?Share your frustrations...how many jobs have you applied for vs how many call backs have you gotten?I've stopped looking... I have a BA and MBA... 5 yrs exp in sales, 4 1/2 years exp in?insurance?underwriting and operations, 5 1/2 years exp in fund?accounting?with supervisory exp... I've applied for for over 500 positions over a 3 year period. It's really not that many when you think about it but I've had only one face to face interview and two phone interviews. By the time I hit my 4th year of unemployment, I basically just stopped looking. After a while, you wonder if anyone even looks at your resume when there is a gap in employment. You get more feedback from forums like these than you do from recruiters or employers.I've applied for many jobs in the last three months; so many that I've lost track of who I have and haven't applied to ... I have only received three calls for interviews. I've been passed up twice for lack of working experience (which brings me to a major question I'm sure many share; Where do I get the experience required if no jobs are willing to hire without such working experience?) in a field and once I passed because it was a high stake sales position with literally no training.What's most frustrating are the relentless emails I get thirty seconds after I press submit: "We are glad you took the time to apply for our position, but we have decided after review of your application we aren't in need of your expertise"?In reality, a lot of older nurses are having problems finding and keeping jobs. The HR people like the younger ones right out of school.?In medicine, they work you hard and burn you out, then replace you.?New grads are very enthusiastic, will work very cheap, and will do anything they are told to do.?So you can see the incentive for them to hire the new grads, even though they have less experience.?I wondered where the whole "medicine isn't as age discriminatory" came from. I know of some male nurses, and they told me the only reason they had their jobs was because it was hard to replace them in the ER.You are right in my opinion. I am an RN with a MBA, MSN in Leadership in Healthcare Systems, a Six Sigma Black Belt and a host of certifications. It all comes down to funds. The healthcare facilities will hire a new grad because they can get 2 for the price of 1 experienced RN. I have seen many of my colleagues either get forced into retiring or will come up with some reason to get rid of them.I've been finding that many of the job ads on are fake. When you see the same companies listing the same jobs here for over two years, what else can you conclude?I recently learned that companies get tax incentives from states for promising to create jobs. They don't necessarily do so, though.I don't think the jobs are fake. I think that the jobs suck.I see the same traveling store inventory, retail stocker, truck driver, and similar jobs all the time. Those jobs have high turnover.I see the same chain store jobs listed for every zip code that I search. Those stores are building a database of potential employees which they'll call when their current employees leave, as they often do. That's not fake, though the employers may not have a job available right now.I'm 23 and haven't had a job in almost five years. The first and only job I had was an intern position at a hospital and I hated it. The floor I worked on was boring, the workers were dull and the doctors were arrogant. Now, I'm just trying to become self-employed and earn enough to sustain myself. It's a hard goal to reach, but it can be done. The last interview I did I bombed miserably and they didn't even bother to tell me that I wasn't what they were looking for...they emailed me instead. I also tried looking for a job with a local agency known as JCS and the counselor I had kept giving me positions that were either filled or unavailable. Totally unreliable. Besides, the main counselor there said that it was gonna be hard for me to get a job because I don't have much experience and he wasn't the first one to tell me this. So, I decided to be self-employed. That's just my decision mainly because I was tired of the discouragement.?In your case, if working for yourself is not what you wanna do, I'd suggest you go down to a temp agency and see if they can try to find short-term work available as others already said. I hope everything works out for you in the end.I've been searching for a full-time job since I graduated from college seven months ago. So far, I've gotten a few interviews, but no offers. It seems like everyone only wants to hire candidates with years of specialized experience. I have none, just a few part-time jobs I worked in college. My degree has proven to be worthless. I can't find a job anywhere. Is there ANY field or company that's willing to hire an intexperienced, but dedicated college graduate? I'm willing to work for minimum wage or straight commission. I'd be willing to work for free to get valuable experience. Any ideas?look into entry level commissioned sales positions. they will usually hire anyone willing to work on commission, do this for awhile and move to salaried sales position if you want to go this route, if nothing else it adds some work experience to your resume and lets future employers know you have learned sales/communication skillsa friend of mine worked car sales after being laid off from a financial analyst position. he now works sales for a bank (salaried + comm)Most of the employers today feel that they don't have to be honest with anyone. They get you in the door and people are so desperate for a job that they will do anything to get it. So, they go with a general idea of the job, then unless you specifically pull it out of them, they won't tell you. Good for forcing them, too bad you can't get them to pay for your wasted time and gas. Wouldn't it be nice if we could get paid for going on all these wasted job interviews.Originally Posted by?JS1?While it would have been nice for HR to say "8-4 three days a week, start 6:30 AM one day a week and end 6:30 PM one day a week", it's not the end of the world. If you don't want to go on any more interviews, you are going to be unemployed forever.In this job market, if you are so inflexible that you cannot start 90 minutes sooner, you are going to have a very tough time finding work. Sorry but that's real life.I hear you on this, but if all you do is agree to any schedule/schedule change they give all the time no matter what, you'll be working 12 hours/day every day, trust me, I've seen it all to often. Business has needs, but it also shouldn't be that your choices are simply limited p/t employment vs. working so much that the only thing you can do is sleep and have no family, etc. either.I know so many people here have worse stories than mine. It's just sad we--the unemployed--are getting treated so horribly by employers. I remember the days when they couldn't find bodies to fill jobs and hope someday soon the tide turns.I am a big believer in karma so treat someone badly this time around and next time, well, who knows?The one thing this did was make me soured on this 'business' I went to interview at--if anyone EVER asks me about it, I will tell them they are very, very unprofessional.In a small town it is not good to operate your business this way. Okay, I don't 'know anyone' of influence but you never know what the future holds.Originally Posted by?bowian?That being said, GypsySoul's experience is hers, and she has a right to how she feels. And she has a point.?The more employees put up with, the less likely the work world will change.The work world will change ... but for the worse when it comes to employers exploiting employees. Just like the robber barons of old. Employers are having a bonanza taking advantage of employees with lowering wages and increasing workload and blaming it on the economy in general even though their own books are solidly in the black. Looks like the recession is ushering in a new Gilded Age to me. The only thing that helped stop them from preying on the employees were labor laws and unions back them. And they were still filthy rich anyway. We need more help, but in this "corpocracy" politicians are in bed with large employers for their own gain.See this:Raw Story ? Concentration of wealth in hands of rich greatest on record( - broken link)The contrast is even starker for the super-rich. The top 0.01 percent of earners in the US are now taking home six percent of all the income, higher than the 1920s peak of five percent, and a whopping six-fold increase since the start of the Reagan administration, when the top 0.01 percent earned one percent of all the income.That is a tiny tiny part of the population getting a considerable amount of the wealth.Wealth inequality in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia... wealth inequality "with the top 10% possessing 80% of all financial assets [and] the bottom 90% holding only 20% of all financial wealth."Originally Posted by?eok?Depressing salaries is not the main purpose of hiring H1B's. They often get the same salary as American workers, but work twice as many hours for that salary. And they're a lot less likely to leave for a better job, because other companies are less likely to hire them because of the paperwork. In STEM it's often very valuable to the employer to have some confidence that their STEM employees are not going to suddenly leave for better jobs. From the employer's point of view, that makes them better employees. More dedicated and more productive. Because, working twice as many hours, they often get almost twice as much work done. So it's a double bonus for employers. More reliability, in not leaving the job, and more productivity, in working twice as many hours for the same salary.That's basically the reasoning of my now former employer. They have hired a disproportionate amount of H-1Bs. There has really been little technical difference in the quality of employees outside just a general bell curve, but the H-1Bs are a lot more willing to put up with garbage because they are essentially hostage.I walked on a few days notice because I had better employment lined up. For the H-1Bs, it's going to be tougher given the administration required, all things equal.Too many people, including too many politicians are telling youngsters today "You need to go to College". Now for certain people and/or certain subjects, yes. But basically speaking, why go and spend all that time and all that money and ring up a big debt to boot, just to not be able to find a job once you graduate? Now I'm talking about typical out of town or out of state Colleges, with dorms, etc.My alternative solution is a Trade School, Technical Institute or a local Community College. Where you can commute from home and also work in your area to help pay for expenses. Learning a Skill, Trade or Profession that is well in demand with much more employment opportunities.Better yet would be an Entry Level Job where you learn a Trade or Skill while you are earning a Paycheck at the same time.?I have seen many a 4-year College Graduate with a fancy degree, and a big Student Loan Debt to boot, working at no-experience low paying jobs that they probably could have just got with a high school diploma anyway, in-comparison to others who have learned an on-the-job Skill having plenty of work, making very decent money and having those same 4 years worth of a financial head start, with No Debt to boot.?Which one makes more sense?In the economy of this day and age anyway.Originally Posted by?11thHour?Eh, if every single person went into stem, those fields would be flooded, which would drive wages/salary down, which then makes them not so economical to go into anymore.Very true.Science already is oversaturated which is why we have companies paying chemists $15 an hour temp. Most science jobs are shipped overseas, plus h1b program further eats the ones at home, the rest becomes a race to the bottom and believe me there isn't much lower to go.Honestly I would say it's a combination of ignorance, actually, more naivety, and then laziness, financial issues, location, and more. Also, I would knock Accounting off the survey, competition for these positions is going up which is driving salaries down and it seems unless you can get recruited to big 4 or into another nice corporate accounting gig while in school yet, most of these grads are going to have to be content with $12 an hour bookkeeping jobs for a few years!Anyway, first and foremost I feel that far too many students jump into college too early. I would even go as far as to say that really most students shouldn't go to college right after high school. I went to college at 18 and then I went back for a second degree at 26. NIGHT AND DAY difference. I've always been a high GPA student in academia since grade school, but I had this level of discipline and persistence in my mid twenties that I didn't have at 18. I didn't give a **** about dating, making friends, or worrying about what other people thought of me and I asked questions night and day till professors were blue in the face. I could go on and on, but my physical and mental maturity made college in my mid twenties a CAKEWALK compared to going in at 18. Honestly, they should raise college admission age to 21 or something! At least that way you won't have all these stupid underage drinking parties and what not. :PBut back on topic... Why do kids today pursue bad majors? Well, the same reasons I likely pursued a bad major. Being naive about the harshness of the world, having no good counsel or people to give me advice, being too young to really know what I want to do with my life, feeling pressured that I HAD to go to college and well might as well do something I'm interested in if I have to go. Sad but true fact is many "fun" career paths are the least stable and reliable! Then you bring laziness into the equation. I saw friends in engineering, math, pre-med degrees literally being torn apart pursuing their degrees. Anxiety and depression, suicidal tendencies (med school has highest suicide rate!), literally not a second of time to just sit down and relax. They were constantly going, no sleep, always studying, always working. They might be the ones laughing now after they got their degree, but seriously, it isn't a walk in the park and I don't think everyone can handle that, ESPECIALLY at a younger age. For example, I could do an engineering degree now if I wanted but I doubt I would even make a semester back when I was 18-19.?Then you have financials and location. Not everyone can attend the school they want to. Maybe the only college they can commute to or afford is pretty bad, or doesn't offer the major they want. Once again, there is this immense pressure to go to college and they cave in, do a program that probably isn't the best.?All and all, I really think it mostly comes down to that people right after highschool simply aren't mature enough to make a smart choice about a college education. It's not their fault, it's just wisdom, stuff you only learn with time. If high school grads spent a couple to few years working different entry level jobs, traveling around, picking up some skills in free time, they would be able to absolutely nail it when they went to college for real and also pick a major that was well researched and applicable to their life and skills.Many go into certain fields knowing they won't make the big bucks but they love being an artist,musicians, music teachers because they want the reward of loving their craft, being in a more laid back and less stress environment and money isn't their goal in life.They many times make for happier people and enjoy life with less. Many are successful, and many aren't. They just enjoy what they do.Call them what you want but I call them lucky.Originally Posted by?jobaba?Who said that?If you major in the humanities, you can get into a bevy of industries.For example, of my friends who have English/Psych degrees...-One does marketing for an amusement park.-One does high level admin/marketing work for a real estate firm.-A few teach high school.-One is a senior editor at a fairly major publisherIf you think people in those positions make much less than engineers, then I think you are mistaken.Now. I DO know people who make double, triple, and even four times what I make.Medicine, oral surgery, and banking. If you want $, then don't f@ck around.Yes, yes, yes.....I was fed the same garbage. You can always find someone making big bucks with any degree, but that doesn't make that degree such a good choice for the majority. College is a business, counselors are a form of marketing, a degree is a commodity bought and sold. They try to make you feel guilty if you pick a major for the money, its your life's passion! At the end of the day, do you really think college counselors, instructors, etc suffer pangs of guilt because they might have led a student down a wrong path? Heck, no!Its all about keeping their own cushy jobs, benefits, pensions, etc. They see students like ducks in a shooting galleryIf you're beautiful and/or loaded, you can study whatever you like! Look at Kate Middleton! A beauty, she could set her sights on a rich husband. Add to that her parents were wealthy. They sent her to St Andrews, they could afford it, why not! They were hoping she'd meet a rich husband, but few figured she'd land the future King of England! She majored in Art History, a completely useless major for the working class, but a way to meet others who weren't looking to earn a living, they already had it!Furthering the Kate Middleton analogy, why would someone like her bother with a STEM degree, or accounting? The rich and beautiful don't need to earn a living, so why bother?To do something just because you like it is a bit short-sighted. But you can look at your likes, dislikes, and talents and aim for a career which utilizes them. For example, my m-grandfather was quite a naturally talented artist, but as the son of a blacksmith he certainly couldn't live as an artist. Instead, he became a tool maker and master machinist, which utilized his talents and provided a good living. That's what educational counselors are supposed to do, but most just push majors their institution wants filled.?Took me awhile to catch onto that!No matter your industry, these kids have to learn to rise above the competition if they want to be taken seriously. Your degree alone won't get you there. I studied abroad, racked up scholarships and internships, and I started networking in my industry two years before I crossed that stage at graduation. I truly believe this was the only I walked right into a salary position two weeks after graduation while all of my friends were still searching for jobs.This is a good point. But I feel that luck plays a part in this, whether people like to hear it or not. I find it hard to find people who will admit luck played a part in acquiring their good job, claiming their hard work was the ticket to success, but I feel you need the hard work AND the luck!?Nonetheless, I know Computer Science and Engineering grads (degrees touted to be gold tickets to success) who could not find jobs and are now working outside the field in low paying work. Same thing with nurses and accountants. If anything, going into medicine as a doctor/surgeon seems to be safe, but only because those that otherwise might not be able to find a job can almost always manage to open their own practice and make a good living doing it! We always hear about how the STEM fields are the way to go, but trust me, there are 1000s of STEM grads out there probably flipping burgers loathing their lives. Talk to one in person and it makes you scratch your head and question things a bit. It makes me sad there is this disparity, but I know a few STEM grads who are outstanding guys and gals but did not have luck finding a good job after graduation. One just finally found a job after 6 years. The others are still trying to get their first entry level position in the field! On the same page, I know STEM grads who had 60k+ jobs ready for them before they even graduated and now they are making high 80s and 90s and some even six figures. It really seems to be a luck of the draw to me, but I guess it's just the harsh reality of life.I saw a Facebook friend ranting about student loan debt and promoting Sanders last night, and my response went along these lines.Most kids go to government (public) schools, getting an education approved and sanctioned by the government. If teachers get too far off the government reservation, they're cracked down on. The schools then promote going to more school (college - most of which is at least partially funded by government), at which point the government (as primary student loan provider) and the entities government founded (Sallie Mae) give you as much rope (debt) as you need to hang yourself. When you're in debt up to your eyeballs to the government, doing the things the government told you to do (just like a good little sheep), they then change the rules so you can't discharge student loans, leaving you in debt to the government in perpetuity. After much public outcry, big government advocates (like Bernie Sanders) promise to come in and have the government save you from problems the government created.Originally Posted by?gentlearts?I have a few friends who ask themselves the same question. One has a kid getting his doctorate in the psychology of art, and another one wants to be a dancer, and another one wants to be a food photographer. When I'm blowing sunshine up their skirts, I tell them that some people do make a living doing these things, so maybe their kids will.Only the young are optimistic enough to believe that they should follow their passion and the money will come. Maybe they are right.It's a matter of probability. Some might say that following your passion to become a professional football player is silly, because only nominal percentage make it to that level. Should you tell your kid not to pursue his (or her) dream of a professional sports career because the odds are low that they'll make it to that level? Because I bet in every case where someone did make it, there was a supportive parent in the background helping to make their kid's dream a reality.?So yeah, maybe the probability of making A LOT of money with a particular college degree is lower than in comparison to others. But, as a parent, do you tell your kid not to follow their dreams? It's a pretty timeless predicament in which lots of parents have been wrong in their assumption that their child wouldn't make money doing this or that. I'm sure almost every actor, writer, musician, pro athlete, non-STEM following individual was told that at some point in their life.Personally, I'd rather have a bunch of hopeful, optimistic people striving to make their dreams come true as opposed to a bunch of miserable grunts doing what is expected of them for a meager paycheck. Think of it this way...who do you want building your airplane or building? Someone who loves how engineering works and who has a knack for it, or some talentless harp who only cares about the $$$.I received a job offer today after five months of unemployment. It's a nice job that pays decently, with what seems like a great group of people, so I'm happy, and grateful (as I live in an area with a poor job market, and I'm also an older female job seeker). I've accepted and will start work in about a week.I applied to 26 jobs, received "bites" (either phone screen or in-person interview) on 9 of them, interviewed in person for 5 jobs, and had two interviews scheduled which I later cancelled (one because the phone interview turned me off, and one because I was offered a job elsewhere).A few things I learned over the past five months, which might be generally helpful to others...Don't let the flakes, rude people or unprofessional people out there get you down. My job search started very promisingly, the first job I applied to called me in for two interviews after a phone screen interview. Despite making it to the end of their process (for a part-time job!) I never received any response or notification of any kind after the final interview. It was very rude and really left a sour taste in my mouth, after just having started a job search after years of not being on the job market. Was this how it was going to be?Well, yes... and no. Generally speaking, in today's job market you won't get notifications if they don't want you, at least in the earliest stages of the process. If you have been through multiple interviews and reach the end stage, though, a lack of notification gets increasingly irritating. Small companies seem to be the most guilty of this. Surprisingly it was the "soulless corporations" who sent back the nicest rejection form letters after a reasonable amount of time. This no doubt has to do with the size of the HR department. Many smaller or family-run companies don't have these. So don't take it personally.Learn to sharpen your "flake-dar" when interviewing, especially during phone screens. I had a phone screen with a woman from a small company who conducted it from her home with a screaming baby in the background. This should have been a bit of a flag that they weren't really in control of things. If I had any doubt this was true, all doubts vanished when the head of the company called to discuss my resume and then when I called him back within the hour, he couldn't remember why he called me, said he was in a meeting and would call back, and he never called back again.In another case, the phone interview so strongly conveyed a negative impression of the company culture, that I wound up cancelling a scheduled in-person interview. In general - if phone screeners are late in calling you at the appointed time, don't sound prepared, or otherwise seem nonprofessional - the company is likely to be the same way.Another thing I learned: Glassdoor reviews, while needing to be taken with a grain of salt, usually are quite spot-on about company culture. If 9 out of 10 reviews mention a hostile office atmosphere, or talk about stagnant pay and no advancement opportunities, take heed!?Also: Good part-time jobs are very hard to find (at least in my area they have been). I think a lot of people think "Oh, I'll just find a part-time job to start, it's OK if there are no benefits and not great pay," but increasingly these sorts of jobs are just contingent, work-from-home things with unsteady hours. I'd see job listings advertising 15-20 hours per week (not from scammy jobs, but from actual known companies in town doing reputable work), only to find out they were mostly work-at-home assignments and the hours would be highly irregular. That was probably the biggest surprise and disappointment of my initial job search, the lack of steady part-time work. (I'm sure other people have already discovered this...)So it doesn't sound like I was rejecting everything... I was disappointed to not even get called for some jobs I thought I would be a great fit for. That, of course, is going to happen too.During my job search I realized that I was not getting calls for certain types of jobs I was applying for, and that wasn't fun because this was work I thought I would really like to do. Midway through my search, I decided to concentrate on a different field that I was also qualified for, and focus on that. I also decided, toward the end, to completely re-do my resume to a functional format. This seemed to produce better results for me.Lastly I would say, don't give up, focus your efforts if you are going weeks without any progress, and hang in there. I hope everyone has great luck with their searches going forward. You can do it.Great insight, I went through something similar.?My 2 cents to add:1) If you don't have a "useful" degree and/or good connections or you are poor at making good connections, you are most likely going to have a hard time finding work.Case in point, there really are not that many employers knocking down my door to hire someone with an English degree. So yes I can apply to the publishing, Copy Writing and Copy Editing type jobs but if the "English" degree jobs don't work out, then I am stuck applying for the general office assistant , customer service, bottom of the totem pole type office work that anyone regardless of degree can apply to.2) Gap suck, they honestly suck and they suck hard. They are black holes that suck in all light and sound and will immediately draw the attention of any interviewer. You better have a good explanation of why you where not employed from A-B because I guarantee it will be brought up.?3) You don't have the job until you have the job- simply I don't care if you are on the 4th interview and you met all your co-workers and you and the interviewer started talking about football etc... The fact remains you don't have the job until you sign that offer letter. So lets say you nailed that interview on Monday, you have a good feeling about it, come Tuesday I would resume looking for work.4) Job hunting sucks, it inherently sucks. No one likes rejection and no one likes never hearing back from a job you applied to but it happens and it happens a lot. Be prepared for it, accept it.5) More often than not there are simply more applicants than there are job openings. Ever go to Linkedin and see that the job you applied for has 330 applicants already? Its like that, accept is not just Linkedin it is everywhere.?6) Finding a job is hard, it is bloody hard. If someone says that finding a job is not hard then I would have to wager that either they have a "useful" degree, luck, or they have a friend/family member who was able to push their resume past the "I hope my resume gets through the screening software stage".7) Don't give up. Honestly until someone invents a way of "moping at home = you found a job !", you will have to look, you will have to search. Even if applying for a job increases my chances of finding work by 1% , I will take that 1%.What a great post! Congrats on the job too! I totally agree with much of what was said. Laid off after 10 years, I couldn't believe how much had changed when applying for a job!A few of my learnings:1.). If a company it interested I you, they will call you. You don't need to call them every week, they won't forget you. If you're not hearing back on a regularly basis, then move on.2.). Agree totally you don't have the job until you have a written and signed offer letter. I had background and credit Checks, 8 interviews, and recommendations from peers but still didn't end up with the "dream" job3.) be wary of those who don't tell you the company name or exactly what the role is! So many scammers!4.) headhunters still suck and unless they are on retainer or something to a company or you are a high ranking official, they are just trying to place bodies. Even if I'm "awesome and the " which is what one particular moron told me.?5.). Always had best luck when applying immediately when posting came out, don't wait!6.). Be leery of those looking to hire right away without normal protocols7.). One disagreement: I am an English major and was the best decision ever. Most employers know I'm well-rounded and have critical thinking and writing. Always been a plus for me!I also didn't spend ALL DAY looking for work, because I had to stay in my current geographic area, and there just weren't enough jobs to apply to. (I still don't understand how anyone can apply for "100 jobs a week," either in terms of job fit, or in terms of having the time to do it!) The hardest part for me was, in the beginning, creating four or five different boilerplate resumes and cover letters to fit the four or five job types that I might be right for. Once I had done that, it made applying to jobs faster and easier. I would spend an hour blocked off in the morning preparing the letter and resume for a freshly posted job (yes, as mentioned above, it's a good idea to make sure the jobs are fresh and newly posted), and then at the end of the day (4:00 or so), I would actually apply, whether it meant filling out an online form or sending an email. That gave me a chance to catch any errors in my work from the morning earlier.Maybe other people live in areas with more jobs they want to apply for, but for me, three applications in a week was a very good week. It usually was just *one* per week, something I wasn't happy about, but I don't live in a great town for jobs.I want to add... I'm one of those people who doesn't have a zillion people to "network" with. (Another problem is that most of my work acquaintances were still at the company I was at, it's kind of insular and nobody wants to leave, etc, and other friends and family don't live in my area.) My family was looking out for opportunities for me, but I was pretty much on my own, hunting through job boards and on company websites.One other bit of advice is that you have to learn to move on from rejection/silence quickly. This is hard because if you're like me, you apply for a job and then imagine yourself in that job or career. You try to prepare yourself for a possible interview, the job opportunity takes over your thoughts, and then... nothing. This is an emotional rollercoaster that you have to learn to minimize as much as possible. At one point, I was getting interviews but I was dreading them, not out of nerves, but because I was dreading getting worked up over them and then disappointment. After a while, that letdown gets really old.The job which I was offered, was a *two-month* hiring process from application to job offer, which is lengthy, even for this industry which tends to have more leisurely hiring process. Don't ever completely give up hope... just learn to move on to the next application. Sometimes you will be surprised with an offer that comes a little later than you think it would have.Oh! and one last thing...Whatever you do, in your resume or in-person presentation... you must strive NOT to seem confusing. What seems self-evident to you about your personal work history or skills acquisition, very likely will not seem self-evident to others. I had a special challenge because my "story" was unusual - I took a buyout after 25 years with one employer, so in every cover letter and in every interview I had to explain "WHY." I wasn't real good at this at first. Later I realized that getting this spiel down, and learning when and how to inject it into the conversation, was the most important thing. I had to reassure them that I hadn't been fired, that I wanted to join their company and work hard, and even explain why I might want to return to the same industry despite having worked in the industry elsewhere for 25 years. That was tough. Your story may have its own elements of oddness to it. But you really have to have that presentation of who you are and what you hope to do, nailed down in a way that will best appeal to different employers.I find it very hard to not get personally invested in a job I actually want even if I don't get past the "Thank you for applying email stage" and yes it is much worse to get to the in-person interview stage and get rejected. However I think it is a part of human nature; you are applying for X job, you want to work in X- how can one not get invested?However you are right, one has to move on, one has to keep looking.Based on what I've been reading from posters about the IT field, it seems to suck and be okay at the same time. I'm not sure what to make of it. As with most things, different people have different perspectives based on their experiences.?The facts point to a high influx of foreign workers because they are cheap, easy to dispose of, and are highly accessible. I do ask myself if there is ANY field which is not oversaturated-- I can't think of many. I know it can vary based on what cities and companies are demanding domestic workers for jobs but prospects seem rather bleak. Where I live seems to have a healthier economy for IT jobs but as always, I'm worried if I'll just be screwed again a year from now because the programming job or software support job I have is outsourced. I'm stuck though, since I have this term left to earn my degree so it's not like I can really stop now. I was hoping to earn a degree with actual marketable skills but I'm not too positive anymore. What really IS the outlook for IT? Does it matter what subfield you're going into? What specific field(s) aren't going to require workers to be an on-call robot 24/7? I'd like to be able to have a family life.IT is very good. Not so much for programming necessarily because that is outsourced and insourced but there is increasing demands for network security and user support.Originally Posted by?mtnbiker65?I'm not sure if the field is doomed. I'm a mid-life career changer with a newly minted degree and I"m finding it very, very difficult to break into without the requisite five years of experience for entry level roles.That's been my experience as well. A lot of younger IT workers tell me the same thing.Originally Posted by?mtnbiker65?I'm not sure if the field is doomed. I'm a mid-life career changer with a newly minted degree and I"m finding it very, very difficult to break into without the requisite five years of experience for entry level roles.It's probably because you are looking in Maine. Most of the IT jobs are near the bigger city/metro areas of the USA. Especially for newbies that need experience. Once you have a lot of years experience then you qualify for more jobs. Then a small/medium sized metro area might work out for you. But if you are looking to break into the field, you have to go to the epicenter of IT jobs...the big metro areas. Even if it's just to get your foot in the door and gain some experience.I would think IT is a solid career path here in The States, however "IT" is NOT "computer programming" but INSTEAD "computer maintenance" - where "maintenance" is the entire range of network admin, software maintenance/install, user interaction (as in "Let me put this new monitor in place for you"), etc.Those of us in the software development field may be doomed but IT will go on "forever".[when you see places like Elance have experienced competitors in the software development environment bidding on jobs at $2/hour, you know you're in trouble if you were thinking of bidding here in The States....]Rubbish. If you are an American IT professional, oursourcing is a pestilence and a scourge. If you are an H-1B job robber you are definitely a product but you overlook the fact that every "product" has a life cycle. You skill set today may be flavor of the month today but Tata and Coznizent can tap a new pool of "freshers" with more current skills when your six year stint in the US is up.You can't break into IT without any experience unless you have a solid academic background with technology majors. Just think from the company's POV, where can they put you? Why should they train you if there are many qualified IT workers who can take the jobs without training? Supply and demand.?Don't go into IT just for the money, you may start off making good money but if you aren't keeping up with the technology you won't be competitive in just a short few years. The reason is that IT is changing rapidly these days. Companies are trying to leverage technology in key areas that will make certain jobs obsolete. It's not a career I would advice if you are not committed to constant learning of the field.Sure, there are people who are bosses that don't need to understand tech but even that's becoming more rarer as businesses opt for bosses that understand technology.In 10-20 yrs from now, many IT jobs today will become completely obsolete. There will be some support jobs left but won't be as popular as it is today. Most jobs will be in software and applications engineering, network and infrastructure designs, operation engineers, etc. Fewer and fewer support folks will be necessary as software becomes smarter and people are more familiar.One example: many years ago you have IT people that help you setup your Blackberry or laptop. Today many companies offers employee self-service. You go to a website, fill out some info and your smartphone or laptop will be configured for corporate access.?If you're going to a tech company like Twitter or Google then you need to become a product specialist or apps engineer to help the company design or maintain their product portfolio.I had this discussion during lunch with some co-worker. Ultimately, the IT industry will contract not expand as it has in the 90s. We've already experience heavy contraction during major recession as companies slash their payroll. More heads roll while the work hasn't gone down, we're using less heads to do the same or more work.In the future most of the IT work will be automated, we've already seen many financial services positions reduced completely due to automation.?The future is looking bleak for most folks who are just entering the field and the room for growth will depend on how quickly you can pick up new tech and stay relevant. The other method is to go and become a manager and be less dependent on your tech skills.Originally Posted by?Tonyafd?According to John Miano in his book Sold Out the "Stem Crisis" is a scam perpetuated by Microsoft. They create this artificial shortage to justify raising the limit on the H-1b visa. Remember that Microsoft is a software company. Depressing salaries across the board is part of their cost control strategy.This post sums nails it right on the head. Microsoft, along with other software companies and the politicians they buy off are the ones who preach this nonsense. This is the kind of capitalism they want to engage in, and has nothing to do with an American shortage. I know many people who were excellent in the IT field for years who cannot even receive a callback, believe me they exist.Another thing is Microsoft also has certs they need to sell so they can make even more money!!Originally Posted by?BigDGeek?Microsoft certs are a scam in my field. Do they exist? Yes. Does anyone I know have one? NOPE.I've worked in tech for 18 years without a single cert to my name. It's easy enough to figure out in an interview whether someone actually knows anything about database programming.The town I live in you cannot even advance without a cert anymore. Even non-IT jobs at IT places want you to at least have Security + certification, even for clerk jobs. What makes it even worse is many employers will not even think about hiring you if you have certs, degree and no experience. To them all that education is useless without the certs. "Entry-level" jobs require five years experience in many places. At this point I am thinking about switching fields yet again!!In California either in the lower range or high. There seems to be rarely any middle ground. This is from salaries in glass door.?I see many jobs for under $20/hr. If you are management, union, or CS or healthcare professional, you get at least $33+?What happened to jobs and wages between $20-$33??I emphasize California since wages and cost of living here are high so you would expect a more even distribution of salaries in all rangesIf I can get a sanctuary city citizen to do the job for $9 to $12 why should I pay $25??Living in California is like highway robbery.I just continue to be astounded at the lack of empathy for the poor in this country. I guess we all know how you want to be treated if you ever find yourself down on your luck.As far as the lack of empathy, as the saying goes, ignorance is bliss. People simply don't want to hear or entertain the hardships of others because they themselves fear they could end up in the same tough position.?It's like when people complain about all of the negative reports they hear on the news. It's not the reports themselves people hate, but watching and hearing these reports forces people to think about their own lives being negatively impacted.So instead, to keep their own peace of mind, they'd rather downplay an dismiss the problems others face in the world and pretend they don't exist, hoping these problems never affect them personally or that these problems will just disappear.Originally Posted by?firebolt126?A guy once told me this "it is not what you know, but who you know." Knowledge will give you a good chance to land a job on your own. But knowing people, your chance is much better, since they can help you in more than one way.I think this is mostly true. Now that does not mean I am belittling education, questioning the merits college etc... but often the difference from getting your resume read as opposed to going into the resume black hole will be, who you know (at least for the smaller companies).My take on the job thing is: YES there are jobs out there but many of them have qualifications so strict ( must have 2-3 years experience doing X, prefer a degree in Y, etc...) coupled with the strong reluctance for companies to train new people that often it feels as if "there are just no jobs out there"As a consultant in the IT industry for over 15 years, many IT positions are doomed already. Companies are working with outsourcing company to completely outsource their IT support operations. You may have just 1-2 guys left at each IT specialized positions left just to watch or manage contractors and outsourcing workers.The days when kids out of college are hired into an IT position is closing. Cheaper for firms to maintain a relationship with outsourcing firms to keep rotating workers from Indian rather than hire American.By the time most companies can outsource my current specialization, I believe I will be out of the industry by then. There's always going to be highly skilled positions in IT available but companies are working hard to automate and replace with cheaper labor.I would not recommend anyone getting into the field if they are just getting into college. Your college debts won't pay off.And add to that many people have told me most of what they learned in college did not help them at all when they went out in the real world. These were people who attended credible four year Universities also. Most of what helped them was their own self study, independent collaboration with others, and special projects they set up on their own.?I took a few courses in undergrad and we spent too much time learning who created software, and the history of different kind of software. Not enough time learning how to use the software and comparing software. I know a girl who graduated with honors in the field and can only find secretary work.It also does not help that many people who excelled in the field for upwards to 20 years cannot even find IT jobs anymore. I am not saying people should not go into the field, but compared to others it just has way too many people trying to get in and nowhere near enough space available for them!!Do people use them [recruiters]anymore? I used to get contacted by them fairly frequently now I don't hear a peep even though I have a masters and more experience. If I'm looking for a job and need help is it useful to reach out to them? I'd really like to have someone take a look at my resume and say, I think you'd be good at this let's focus on looking at these types of jobs. Does this happen anymore?I get contacted daily but it's always for garbage jobs. I think you're better off applying on job boards. When I do apply to jobs posted by recruiters I find that they lied about the salary or it's low paying. This has been my experience anyway.Originally Posted by?Whatsnext75?Do people use them anymore? I used to get contacted by them fairly frequently now I don't hear a peep even though I have a masters and more experience. If I'm looking for a job and need help is it useful to reach out to them? I'd really like to have someone take a look at my resume and say, I think you'd be good at this let's focus on looking at these types of jobs. Does this happen anymore?I haven't used them but I've applied for jobs on Indeed which were listed through a recruiting company like Randstad, Aerotek, etc. I never hear back from those recruiters even though I match all of the job requirements. Some of the job postings even claim "multiple positions available" and still not a peep from them, even after sending them e-mails.I even called two separate ones after submitting my resume and never hearing anything back. They both told me, "That job has been filled but I will keep your resume on file and in mind for any similar future openings." And when only days later I see similar job postings for the same exact type of position listed by the same agencies (i.e. customer service, inside sales, etc) I always wonder why they don't ever e-mail me about those jobs. I really believe it's all a scam just to get as many resumes into their database/pool of candidates.My dad gets constant calls from recruiters who have seen his resume on the job boards. He has lots of calls from them on the answering machine. The phrase, "I think you'd be a good fit" must be their sales pitch.Originally Posted by?Whatsnext75?Do people use them anymore? I used to get contacted by them fairly frequently now I don't hear a peep even though I have a masters and more experience. If I'm looking for a job and need help is it useful to reach out to them? I'd really like to have someone take a look at my resume and say, I think you'd be good at this let's focus on looking at these types of jobs. Does this happen anymore?The ones that ask for my professional reference, I tell them flat out I'll provide them if I get at least one interview with the hiring company.I haven't got called in the longest time. However I recently DID get a call. I guess I could've "tested the waters", and see if it was another 5 to 12 month contract with possible "temp to hire" buzzword included, but I was already working and just didn't feel up to it. I don't know if they look at my LinkedIn profile, as I did recently update it with my new job, but I also doubt that, as the position was for the last region I lived in. NOT moving halfway across the country for a temp job at less pay with no benefits.In the past, I've talked with many of them, and they've either never gotten back to me, or I needed to push them for them to tell me it just got filled. In one case, I've had 5 recruiters try to recruit me for literally the same position, all within a one day time frame??It's like they all just used the same source to figure out the same job listing. They've generally been a waste of time. If you really want to get them off your chain, just tell them you want $100 an hour?Staffing Agencies like Aerotek (I've actually heard of one person say they were helpful, and some on C-D, but heard many more otherwise and still stand by my experiences with them), Randstad, Jobspring Partners, and Workbridge Associates are either just useless or pure scum.Add Solomon Page to that list. They are horrific and I would advise to stay away from them. Aerotek is a joke. An absolute joke.I got my current job through a "head hunter" so to speak. I had to work through their agency as a contractor for a year prior to coming on full time. My pay didn't change when coming on full time, and I'm content with my job. It pays incredibly well and I work in a good program.?Some agencies are garbage, some are great. If you are unemployed, or looking for a job, why not throw your resume out to as many places/agencies as you possibly can? What's the worse that can happen, you get called with a poor offer and say no??I have agencies call me pretty regularly. One emailed me yesterday asking if I was interested, and another called me a few weeks ago wanting me to go work in Mexico for $80/hr. Unfortunately it was a shorter term gig.I wouldn't have as much of a problem with 3rd-party recruiters if they actually had the jobs they were calling me about. Most of the time, the "client" of these recruiters doesn't even know the job the client posted has been reposted by agencies who will retroactively try to sell their services to the client. In essence you are wasting 15-30 mins of your day with a phone interview for a non-existent job opening, and if you're a n00b at this sort of thing then you will probably get your hopes up because the recruiters act sooooooo confident in their ability to get you a gig.Originally Posted by?DavidRudisha?I wouldn't have as much of a problem with 3rd-party recruiters if they actually had the jobs they were calling me about. Most of the time, the "client" of these recruiters doesn't even know the job the client posted has been reposted by agencies who will retroactively try to sell their services to the client. In essence you are wasting 15-30 mins of your day with a phone interview for a non-existent job opening, and if you're a n00b at this sort of thing then you will probably get your hopes up because the recruiters act sooooooo confident in their ability to get you a gig.Yes and even if they don't have the assignment they will call you in because they have to look busy and be doing something and "interviewing and testing" candidates for non-existent jobs can make them look pretty busy.Also be leery if a third-party recruiter that you interviewed with/applied with calls you out of the blue "just to touch base" and see what you've been up to, yet they don't have any position to tell you about. When they do this, they will grill you on what companies you have been interviewing or applying with since you last saw them. This is not because they are interested in your career, it's because they are interested in getting new leads to try and sell their services to.Originally Posted by?houstan-dan?Some agencies are garbage, some are great. If you are unemployed, or looking for a job, why not throw your resume out to as many places/agencies as you possibly can? What's the worse that can happen, you get called with a poor offer and say no?1) the calling can get excessive. It's one thing to spend due diligence time on job searches, but some folks, these jobs are a complete waste of time (e.g. move 800 to 2000 miles for a 3 to 12 month job, at a VERY low hourly rate, or try your hand and selling life insurance policies)2) they may call to try to get your SSN3) If going to a staffing agency, you're paying $5 to $15 of parking just to waste your time. Some places, you need to drive 45min.+I have NEVER gotten an interview with one of these methods, let alone a job offer. I'm not saying you shouldn't automatically blacklist them (good ones are hard to find though), but working with these folks still incurs a cost one way or another.Originally Posted by?DavidRudisha?Most of the time, the "client" of these recruiters doesn't even know the job the client posted has been reposted by agencies who will retroactively try to sell their services to the client. In essence you are wasting 15-30 mins of your day with a phone interview for a non-existent job opening, and if you're a n00b at this sort of thing then you will probably get your hopes up because the recruiters act sooooooo confident in their ability to get you a gig.Yeah, this is my biggest beef with recruiters -- posting false ads for positions that aren't even open/don't exist.Recruiters do half ass work.I'm applying to their job.lol! I can give out nonstop false information.I've not had luck with recruiters. A huge waste of time. Every time they called for a job (this is Aerotek) it would magically disappear by the time I could interview with them. Then they'd go, "ooh, maybe next time." and wouldn't call again for six months. This happened three times, and a new recruiter every time, making me "interview" with them over and over again without any job prospects that weren't immediately rescinded, no matter how I'd bend over backwards to meet with them "before the opportunity was gone!"They never had anything that I had previous experience in specifically, but would tell me it was entry level so that didn't matter. I'll bet it did but they wanted to string me along anyway.Just checked my email and I've been contacted 3 times by recruiters in the past yr for jobs I wouldn't want. They also called. So that's not exactly None. I work in elearning and I've had program management experience, sales experience, and where I'm at we don't take phone calls. inhale an 8 month old, it's flexible and I'm thinking ahead. BUT thanks for your kind words paul. Keep shining.I'm not even looking to be recruited. I asked if there were places I could go to and talk to someone about my resume. I guess I used the wrong word when I said eecruiter... but I thought that's what they were called. Staffing specialists? Whatever.Recruiters are good for people that have a special skill.?They receive at least 10-20 resumes for a job every day and they can only submit a few of resumes to the client. And after that the client decides who they want to interview....but honestly the client could be working with many recruiters from different agencies so your chances of getting even an interview has already decreased.?Do not take it personally, get a referral from a friend or family member who has worked with a recruiter.I got spammed by them after I got about 3 years of experience in my design career. However, 95% of the times the positions they were recruiting me for was not even relevant to my skills and experience, and the ones I did talk to were extremely flaky!Headhunters by and large = scammers or a-holes at best.?In my heyday I have bumped heads with headhunters. Not one has ever successfully managed to take my head, LOL! They were all, with one exception, both a-holes AND scammers.One time I interviewed for a job in town where I was, it turned out, a perfect fit. It also turned out that they had a copy of my resume for at least 6 or 8 months and had been searching for me, specifically, ever since. I have a good idea of where they got that resume, but no idea at all of how the headhunter who was shopping it around had got hold of it.I remember this guy specifically because I had met with him and flat out told him not to bother me after talking to him - or rather listening to the blow-hard blather - for just a few minutes. In the first few minutes, he critiqued my hairstyle and mode of dress, criticized my lack of makeup, insulted my intelligence, and told me I was too fat and would have to lose 20 lbs if I wanted a job.Keep in mind, I was a software engineer, an educated professional - not somebody applying for a job as a stripper, which is pretty much how he was treating me. And if I had lost 20 lbs, I'd have disappeared in the first stiff breeze that came along - I'm only 5'2" (almost) and I was already having to shop in the kid's department or Petite Sophisticates to find clothes to fit - because hardly anybody carried size 0 then or now, LOL!The best I can figure is that he had somehow obtained a copy of my resume, submitted it (with all personal information removed) to several different companies (I later confirmed this wasn't the only copy of that resume, friends at a couple of different companies in town had it come across their desks eventually) WITHOUT my knowledge or permission - and then once he had a bite, he approached me and used his AMAZING charm and personal skill to try to make a commission off me.Note that he also presented this job to me at a good $10k or $15k UNDER the offer I eventually received directly from the company. And when I expressed my surprise at such a lowball offer, told me in so many words I was lucky to get that sort of offer, being a woman and all.My guess is that he was going to pretend to negotiate with the company and then present me with the REAL offer, which he expected me to gratefully gobble up at that point, counting my lucky stars.Really. What a bozo. Even for the 80s - such a bozo!Originally Posted by?sandsthetime?I haven't used them but I've applied for jobs on Indeed which were listed through a recruiting company like Randstad, Aerotek, etc. I never hear back from those recruiters even though I match all of the job requirements. Some of the job postings even claim "multiple positions available" and still not a peep from them, even after sending them e-mails.Randstad is a god-awful company. I have had experience with them as a job seeker, and my wife has had experience with them on the recruitment side of things. Both our experiences have been terrible. The recruiter who asked me to come in for an interview never got back to me about the position I was interviewed for, nor any other positions for that matter, despite assurances she would. Her subsequent replacement was no better and refused to acknowledge when I sent him my updated resume. My wife tried to staff using their services and to make a long story short, they missed the deadline for submitting their candidate profiles for mandatory background checks associated with the positions, and my wife was forced to hire a competitor in their place. Personally, I have no idea how they manage to stay in business.Now I can see a justification for a very long application if one actually has a conditional job offer or if it's a high security position, like a police officer or teacher or bank, but I just spent 45 minutes filling out one for Goodyear, as a driver, which, certainly is not a high security position.They also ask questions, like "Have you ever been fired?" (ever, even if it was beyond the statue of limitations of disclosure in the state you reside), "How many times have you been late or sick in your last long term job?" (a prior employer cannot answer that question anyway, even if they called them) and even asked for my birthdate on a "for identification purposes only" form and I thought for sure, that was illegal, until a job offer was actually made.Opinions? If I can see from the start that the application is that long, I usually don't apply for the job, since that could tell me something about the company's culture. I only finished this one, since, it wasn't clear that the app would be that long and I figured I might as well just complete it.Sadly most customer service-types of jobs for large companies have applications like that. I'll do that if I want the job bad enough, but if not, I won't bother. It all depends.I don't see the point. Often, most people, who are already in not the best mood to start with since they're unemployed or underemployed, don't have that much patience or time. Unless, they're sincere about going further with those, that actually take the time to fill out an application that long. But, car rental companies, retail stores and restaurants doing this? It's crap.The process can be much longer than it needs to be. Used to be that a resume contained enough information for an employer to decide if they wanted to talk to you. If they like you, they call you. If the conversation goes well you're invited for an interview where you physically fill out a paper application. The idea that I should give them so much information before I know they are interested in me is a turn off. I filled out 100's of these things online; same story as OP 45 minutes in and I'm finally ready to hit continue and find yet even more to fill out. The idea that I have to create an "account" in order to even start is an even bigger turn off! A simple email form is all that is needed and many, if not the majority, go much further than that! I gave up and became self employed hoping I will never ever have to go through that again! So far its working out for me!I have never seen those kind of questions for good jobs, usually I only hear about them for the minimum wage, retail, and service jobs where it's more important to be there with the high turnover, and difficulty in covering for someone that doesn't show up. If someone is out of working and wants a job, they have to either play along, or lose an opportunity.?In my case where the lowest paid subordinate is at about $24/hour, that kind of question is not asked, but we depend on good references, and the 6 month probation period.humouring companies that jerk you around or waste your time rarely results in a decent job with a good company. I've learned that the hard way. At the minimum their HR people are off their leash and incompetent.When I started in IT almost 15 yrs ago, you have a non-IT boss like a CFO or Human Resource director acting as a IT manager and maybe a couple of 40-50 something with Mainframe experience and a bunch of 20 something learning and running the IT processes like Desktop support, server, network, and phones. It's was like that everywhere.?I started in IT right after college with 4 different offers and was offered training for various IT skillsets.Recruiters used to go straight to college to pick IT guys from, today you rarely see an IT guy that's still in school or just graduated. Today, they go for H1B1 status foreigners. Or try to get some desperate in-debt aging IT worker a low-ball offer to do basic IT work.Very rarely a company would offer to train and hire a college student.Today, it seems everywhere IT shops are managed by 40-50+ yr olds with late 20, 30-40 something IT guys doing IT work. Early to mid 20s folks are almost non-existent. The IT work today is handled exclusively by Pros with 5-15 yrs of experience with atleast 2-3 different core area of expertise vs the one trick ponies that we used to see.Regarding your points:"you rarely see an IT guy that's still in school or just graduated." - Depends on the field. I see fresh graduates all the time in low-mid level networking positions, and TONS of them in programming/development.Today, they go for H1B1 status foreigners. Or try to get some desperate in-debt aging IT worker a low-ball offer to do basic IT work.?- I only see this in desktop support positions and possible web design. I've never seen it anywhere else.Very rarely a company would offer to train and hire a college student.?- This part is true. But that's not just IT; nobody wants to hire AND train somebody.Today, it seems everywhere IT shops are managed by 40-50+ yr olds with late 20, 30-40 something IT guys doing IT work. Early to mid 20s folks are almost non-existent. The IT work today is handled exclusively by Pros with 5-15 yrs of experience with atleast 2-3 different core area of expertise vs the one trick ponies that we used to see?- Generally true, though (like I mentioned before), I see fresh graduates as well. The reason there aren't as many specialized positions is because of the cost. Why have three positions when they can make one person do all three? It sucks, but that's the reality of it.As long as there are so many experienced people available there is no reason to spend the time and money training someone right out of college. Looking at our IT job descriptions, the least experience required currently is 5 years. With a degree requirement, that puts it at about age 26-27.Originally Posted by?Hemlock140?As long as there are so many experienced people available there is no reason to spend the time and money training someone right out of college. Looking at our IT job descriptions, the least experience required currently is 5 years. With a degree requirement, that puts it at about age 26-27.This. College does not mean what it used to back in 1999. That's why recent graduates are in the bind that they are in. In fact, no higher education is what it used to mean. You think those in Master programs are getting trained in real skills that are immediately transferable to a job setting? Probably not. PHDs, even less. Just gives you specialized knowledge... from what I hear, anyway.(1) Who the Hell wants to say they work for a?staffing?firm??"Yea, I work at that cool company, but I actually for Talent Workforce Solutions."?That gets so annoying to say.The times I've worked for a?staffing?agency, all my?staffing?agency coworkers (not to be confused with the people who are "real employees" of the client company) have hated the?staffing?firm. In the worst cases, they become jaded and feel like they're not good enough to work as anything but a member of some company's shadow non-employee workforce.?(2) Almost never a "foot in the door"?At least in technology I know it is the case that?staffing?agency peons are brought in for grunt work so that real employees of the company can focus on more sophisticated work. Even if you are capable of more sophisticated work, you have no opportunity to showcase it. The longer you're there, the more you solidify your image as a low-level worker. Plus, why would the company want you as a full-time employee w/ benefits including severance pay, when they can have you as a cheap worker who can be easily dismissed??(3) Time's up!?Every once in a while your contract is up for renewal. You basically live on borrowed time.For 1. having a big name company on your resume did help me get my current job. But yea I hated working for a?staffing?agency.2. Most of the companies that pack their places with contractors aren't the kind of companies I'd like to work for anyways. they are excrement head corporations that treat their workers like crap to save a buck short term then scream about talent shortages in the long term when they can't attract or retain talent.3. It is definately another downside. One phone call and you are gone.I have worked with many?staffing?agencies in the past- all but manpower was great. I HATE manpower and will never, ever, ever work for them. Other than that, Randstad and Adecco was great to me, and a few smaller firms with integrity was great.My biggest problem with?staffing?firms is that they only seem to want to work with unemployed people lol. I've been told flat out "Call us after you put in your 2 weeks notice and then we will work with you". Here I thought finding a new job while having one would be an assetHow hard is it to get a job at the Office of the Governor working as a State Employee? What are the processes one has to go through to get one of those jobs??Illinois state employees' salaries seems to be even higher than Federal employees' salaries. I though state employee salaries are lower than Feds.?Are these state employee jobs as secure as Federal employee jobs?If you do not live in Illinois, or if you are not an IL Vet, the odds of employment are not very good. Be sure to read the?Special Notice?at the top of the website very carefully before submitting your application.?Work 4 Illinois - State of Illinois Employment OpportunitiesEvery state employee I know is worried about the budget cuts and their job.I'm a state employee. It can be difficult to get a state job. Your best bet is to have a skill that the state needs but has a hard time finding. I got in originally as a computer programmer. I am currently an account technician I. If you can pass the test for an account technician I you are almost assured a state job. The state has a hard time filling these positions.That said, let me tell you that I hate my job. All I do is process invoices all day. The good thing is that I can bid on other jobs to get something that I like more.There are other options but I don't have time to go into it right now. Good luck.My mom is a state employee. She has been working for her department for 20+ years, and she is one of the younger people in her office. It seems to me that a lot of people who land the really good state jobs stick with them for a long time.Don't do it for the pension, you won't be entitled to any compensation (at 67 if your vested) unless you complete 10 years of service. That can be very difficult in today's job climate, state job or not. People move around many times over the course of their career. Again, you will be entitled to NOTHING from the state (or any other Illinois goverment job) until you complete ten years of service.I have worked with recruiters/head hunters in the past, and while I did not get any of the jobs they found for me, they were pretty good about getting me interviews, but those were for upper end jobs.?Temporary?staffing?agencies I have never had any luck with, while they could place me in a job, the jobs were always the low end, and I could always find low end jobs that paid better on my own.Originally Posted by?ggumbo?Speaking with recruiters hasn't gotten me anywhere. Like, I don't understand what they do. In an economy where jobs are so scarce, how in the world do people need to be "recruited?"?Like, what does a recruiter do? Are they HR? Are they like assistants to real HR people?The people at the?staffing?agency are actually HR rejects (which is saying something). A lot of them are fresh grads. Their job is to pack their office and collect your information especially your managerial references (which are a gold mine for their sales department) and find out where you have been applying so they know who has hiring needs so they can send their sales department to them as well. They build large databases they can search and flash at clients.They are used car salesmen trying to use you. Occassionally they have an opening at which point they will search their database or linked-in/other websites for. I would decline any requests for a stop into our office soft interview. It is ususally for the stuff in the last paragraph. If they had a matching job they or their competitors are not shy at all about contacting you trust me on this. I still get emails and calls from recruiters I never met with about jobs.Lots of the frontline people at?staffing?agencies (Randstad, Manpower, etc) have quotas they need to hit as far as new contacts per week. They'll post positions that they really don't have open to hit those numbers and keep the people moving through the office.Recruiters are different animals.I've had good luck with temp agencies (I had two temps go perm in my life), but you have to know how to navigate.On the other side, once your in there, they'll keep checking up on you as they will then view you as an opening to drum up additional business.When I was unemployed I signed up with every agency going. Only one of them gave me a good experience. The others either never bothered to get in touch or kept contacting me about jobs I wasn't qualified for. Maybe we should all get jobs at recruitment agencies?I heard that?staffing?agencys get paid by how many applications they take in . Those gals and guys get paid a percentage of how many applicants they had that week . I had one call me and tell me "Oh they dont want to pay our fee so I guess they dont want you to interview after all ", I went and got an interview on my own with that company and got hired a week later and the?staffing?agency got peed off at me and I dont know why . The company did not want to pay the fee so why was I wrong ? I dont think I was .Yes I have seen some sketchy and fake ones and some of those girls in there looked like hookers with all the makeup and over the top dress .Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?The people at the?staffing?agency are actually HR rejects (which is saying something). A lot of them are fresh grads. Their job is to pack their office and collect your information especially your managerial references (which are a gold mine for their sales department) and find out where you have been applying so they know who has hiring needs so they can send their sales department to them as well. They build large databases they can search and flash at clients.They are used car salesmen trying to use you. Occassionally they have an opening at which point they will search their database or linked-in/other websites for. I would decline any requests for a stop into our office soft interview. It is ususally for the stuff in the last paragraph. If they had a matching job they or their competitors are not shy at all about contacting you trust me on this. I still get emails and calls from recruiters I never met with about jobs.Excellent analogy!??lolYeah, I agree. Total waste of time for the most part with these?staffing?agencies. I would come in for an interview and never offered jobs I wanted (usually bottom of the barrel crappy lab tech jobs that pay $10 an hour) or they don't have anything. So, I wasted a huge chunk of my life and gas for nothing. One time, I was offered a nice job and my recruiter yelled at me. In so many words, I like "Betrayed them". What, you are mad because you will not get commission off of me? It's a scam and I stopped dealing them they are in it for themselves, not for you. I still get emails and phone calls for jobs I have applied years ago! They would say that they saw my resume and wonder if I am still interested in the job. Um, no. I could be starving or dead by now, lol.I don't trust recruiters anymore now it's not to say that all of them bad, however most are basically salesman. They want to recruit someone at the lowest possible rate so they can bank on you. Most will lie and cheat to get what they want and some will even stalk/harass you so just becareful.My engagement rules for dealing with temp agencies are as follows.I use them only as a last resort.I don't go to their meet their contact quota and fish for information interviews. If there is a real job that they are working on I will consider it. I do however let them know that If I get there and find out they lied I will put them on Yelp and Glassdoor with negative reviews. I had one lure me in with what they said was a real bonified position they were working on only to have it dissapear when I got there.I do not provide references until there is a real job I have interviewed for.?I consider temp, temp to hire, all temp. It is a way to get some cash on the side while?YOU?search full effort for a real job on the side. I then leave the second I get a direct position. I don't take counter offers. I don't believe any of the client's schtick about making me permanent just as soon as the hiring freeze expires or after they complete the paper work. If you use a temp agency then I have no commitment to you whatsoever.I wouldn't use one unless I, too, had no other options.I went for a soft interview with a well-known search firm in April. It was my first interview of this kind and they were going to submit me for a high-level training position. I thought the recruiter working with me was a little too casual (using emojis and smiley faces in her e-mails, etc.), but I shrugged it off and figured that because she was conscientious in other ways, I could overlook that.On the day of the interview, I ended up being ten minutes late because she sent me to the wrong floor. The interview was on the 7th floor of the building and instead, I was sent to the 8th. As it was 7:20 in the morning at that point, no one was around, the recruiter obviously wasn't answering her phone that early, and I had no contact phone number for the hiring manager. By the time I figured out where to go, it was 7:40AM. After one look at the hiring manager's annoyed face, I should have turned around and left, but I stayed anyway.?The interview was awful and I told the recruiter that she sent me to the wrong floor, which she refused to acknowledge despite the e-mail she sent me that clearly stated her mistake. After that, I wouldn't take her calls. I refuse to take the blame for someone else's mistake.I haven't met an honest external recruiter yet. I just finished a job interview process where I wasn't selected for the position. I later found out from another recruiter that the first recruiter, with whom I had worked for over 2 months, lied about the salary range. I stood to lose $50K-$85K had I negotiated for the range that she told me to use. I had done my research and my range still fell short because this company is known for throwing money at its employees, but even I had no idea I could go that high. She would have pocketed any money left over as a bonus.?So, the moral of my story is to do as much as you can on your own. Recruiters do often have postings that are not advertised anywhere else, but you'll be paid less than you would be had you applied on your own.Do you not realize, that by her asking you what companies you have applied to lately, that you are HANDING HER free information on companies that are hiring right now??? And that she will send some of her own applicants to those companies, to interview for that same job? This is how agencies operate. This is HOW THEY FIND JOBS themselves to send their applicants to. LEARN THIS AND REMEMBER IT.You were tricked.?When a?staffing?agency calls and asks questions like this, tell them it is none of their business. You aren't obligated to "keep in touch with them" or give them any information about where else you are interviewing. If she really has a job in mind for you, why isn't she sending you right now to interview for it? Because she lied, that's why. She called you specifically to find out names of companies in the area that are hiring for specific positions. Now she can contact them, and present her own candidates to them.I find that the salaries of jobs posted by recruiters are significantly less than market value. I haven't had a bad experience as I've only interviewed with one position via a recruiter that had a descent salary. But I do think 3rd party recruiters are a waste of time.In my experience recruiters are horrendous. Avoid them at all costs. If they email you don't even respond.Originally Posted by?KathrynAragon?This makes no sense. The?staffing?companies don't make ANY money until they PLACE a person in a job and the company they're working at pays the?staffing?company their fee. How on earth would a?staffing?company get paid "by how many applications they take in?"They don't but the recruiters have contact/interview quotas as a performance metric.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?The company has no idea what the agency pays the worker and the worker has no idea what the company pays the agency. So the game is to find the cheapest marginal worker to send to the client and chrage the client the highest markup possible.So true ... and is the reason temporary foreign workers are utilized heavily due to lower billing rates from the worker to the agency.Temp agency recruiting on the otherhand is exploding as companies continue to seek legal ways to abuse their workers and evade employer laws and providing benefits. I've never seen an agency that provided anything resembling competitive benefits and in fact any at all are rare. Workers hired through temp agencies in my profession in addition to earning no benefits typically earn 1/2 to 2/3 what a direct employed employee would performing the same work. That is why they have been so damaging to the profession.Well the ammount of hate for these agencies on this board alone and especially in my profession is quite impressive yet Aerotek, Kelly, and all the noname companies with the Indian recruiters are still not only in business but posting record profits.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?They are used car salesmen trying to use you.?.Used car salemen are more honest. It is a sleazy industry.Many?staffing?agencies go under the guise of "technology solution company" or "consulting firm", but in the end they're all the same thing. They're just acting as middlemen to supply larger firms with a disposable workforce.Rule of thumb; do not apply to?staffing?firms.It's especially important to stay away from Cyber Coders and Robert Half Technologies in the IT field. Those companies simply farm your resume and sell it to corporate recruiters. They make big bucks off of every resume they get after running a background check on you if the background check doesn't turn up any inconsistencies.Originally Posted by?KathrynAragon?How would this work? The vast majority of companies who use a?staffing?company pay thestaffing?company a percentage ABOVE the hourly rate the employee is getting paid, or above the annual salary. So it's actually in the?staffing?company's best interest to get you a job making MORE money, not less.The?staffing?agency lowballs you on contract work, thereby pocketing the difference. Hiring company is paying them $70 an hour for handling the contract, they pay the contractor $20 an hour and pocket $50...so yes they totally lowball you!I have had no luck with?staffing?agencies whatsoever. If i can help it I would rather apply to the company directly every time.Here is a breakdown of my expereince with?staffing?agencies:1)?Staffing?agency calls me up after finding my resume on monster, careerbuilder etc...2) Goes through the whole spiel of "I have this position that I think you would be perfect for can you come in and meet with me?"3) I drive down, interview with the recruiter, find out the job that would be perfect for me is a sales commission type only job and after I turn that down he/she promises to keep looking, to keep my resume and preferences for work in hand for the future4) Promises to get back to me on a biweekly bases or every now and then with jobs that he/she thinks I am appropriate for5) I never hear one more peep from the?staffing?agency ever again after the "getting to know you interview"- neither email or phone call6) Find a job on my own?And that has basically been my take with?staffing?agencies. I am sure with the more experienced candidates , the?staffing?agency actually produces but with those with little to no experiencing it is a wash.Low paid workers are subsidized by the government for the most part so companies heavily take advantage of this.Sadly we're becoming mostly a service sector economy. And service industries generally operate on razor thin margins and can't really pay good solid wages to it's workers.The rich get richer, and even upper middle class are becoming more like regular middle class with the wealth inequality (reference the famous?youtube video).How do you get the middle class to collectively fight against these lower wages when they are all fighting each other for jobs to begin with? It is quite the task.Income redistribution, Obama redirected income from the middle class to the poor while the rich continues to exploit loopholes to hide their wealth.The rich gets richer while the middle class is dragged down by taxes and increase costs of services and living expenses.?The wage stagnation comes from:- Use of outsourcing- Tapping large pool of Foreign workers?- Large companies working together as cartels to form agreements on fixing wages. Tech companies already got caught working together on fixing wages so that a worker can't just go shopping for higher wages when they all pay the say salary ranges.- Congress doing nothing about laborWhich is why we will keep getting incumbents being voted off their jobs in government because both political parties work for the big businesses and not for the people. No change as one senator takes over and only last one term as he fails to deliver for the people but delivers for the companies that donates to his campaign and has a nice cushy office job waiting for him after he leaves.So called one and done senators and congressmen then days.OK, fact check. There are now 93,000,000 adults between 18 and 65 NOT WORKING!?"But the unemployment rate is down to 5.6%. That can't be true." Yes, it's true and it is going to get worse. It isn't caused by "evil corporations". They want to survive too, but they are being taken over by foreign companies who often take the equipment and move it out of our country. Why does this happen? Old rules from the 1930s and government regulations that prevent innovation.Mercedes Benz didn't buy Chrysler for the car brands or the dealership network. They bought Chrysler for the patents. Mercedes Benz kept the patents and sold Chrysler to Fiat.?The average American voter does not even know that his happened. It is happening in all industries. The largest pork producer in the world is Smithfield Foods. They were just bought by Red China. Thy got all the factories, but more important in, my opinion, is that Red China got 480 huge farms.My favorite joke is when they post stories like "Companies cannot find qualified workers." This means people will not work for low wages and companies are unwilling to pay a fair salary.Since the recession, salaries have gone down. A job that you used to get $19/hr is down to $15 or less. Many jobs open pay minimum or the "almighty figure of $10/hr." Talk about stagnant. I was making that 7 years ago.As far as job creation, our local town was boasting about some project that "will bring jobs to the area---in 2035!"What the ???I have seen this often in the tech industry. An American computer science grad is going to expect a decent buck after college. You can go to India and get a boatload of PhD in computer science who will work for $12 an hour no benefits.Your elected officials local/State/Fed. Their main job is to ENHANCE and take care of the community and country.?It is their job to co-ordinate the corporate sector, with the community FOR THE OVER ALL GOOD of the community/country and the citizens within. THAT IS THEIR MAIN JOB.?Co-ordinate for advancement of ALL citizens. They are doing a horrendous job of MISMANGEMENT.They are running the country local/state/fed into the ground. Some of them should be in jail because their negative actions are deliberate and criminal in nature. Some of them should be outright removed because their irrational behavior clearly indicates that they are head cases and totally irrational. Some of them are so old and unhealthy they should have retired years ago. An old unhealthy woman like Hillary? is great example beside her criminal past, for example.The American people deserve better. But they sure aren't demanding respect and dignity, so their elected officials are taking advantage of them, because at the end of the day they are corrupt whores for power and money with NO LOVE FOR COUNTRY OR THE PEOPLE who gave them the power."Your ship is as good as your Captain." USS America is sinking.A job with high turnover is a HUGE bad sign/red flag. The ones that do say at those type of jobs usually have no where to go. I agree with some of the post above hiring wrong people, bad management, bad environment, etc. Get out while you can!!!Originally Posted by?Tigeru?Had a few illegals take my jobs do little to no work and then the company folded. It's a whole state worth of that. I'm getting out of Illinois in a few weeks.My taxes went down after moving out, but my auto insurance went way up. Took care of that quickly by switching insurance companies. Nice sized properties can be had here for 100K. In Illinois, competing with the illegals, 150K would buy me the worst house in a working class community.?Opportunities aren't handed to you in these smaller communities though. You either create them yourself, know somebody, or are an expert in your field. America is quite competitive.What about GETTING the interview??My biggest obstacle is actually getting someone to actually talk to me. I've sent out coutless resumes and I don't get any thing back. I try to call these people and find out what's up. It's not like I'm just sitting there i persue it. But position are always filled as soon as I apply, or the don't actually have anything at the moment, they're just taking resumes for some mystery time in the future when the might hire someone. That person most likely will be a friend of family member of someone already working there. Any job I've gotten was like that. I don't think people actually get jobs cold, off the street.?I don't know anyone who knows anyone who might be hiring someone like me. My social network sucks.?But at this point I don't want to work for someone else anymore. I want to start my own thing. I've got 2 things kinda started. But starting a business is confusing and overwhelming. But I think if I wholheartedly believe in a product I can sell it. And I believe in my own stuff, I take awesome photos, and I have some pretty good ideas for software in my head.?But logic dictates that I may reach points at which I must survive and take a "9-5" to make ends meet. I think part of my problem is that I really dont give a hoot about my boss or whatever he's so stressed about, that's his problem. If he can't give me just compensation for relieving some of the stress off his back, then he's on his own.?Having been laid off 4 times in a row, I've become kinda jaded against employers, I got the message that I, as an employee was completely expendable, and to be discarded when no longer cost effective according to the accounting people. Some of those I understand, they were small businesses, and It can be tough to keep going. I see it as no personal fault but the nature of employment in general. It is not a stable thing. And keeping a regular 9-5 job is as much work as running your own business, except somebody else reaps the profits.?But getting investment for a business is like a hardcore job interview TIMES 1000!! it's all the same weither it's a boss or a customer handing you the check.?I reference to the advice above:?Even as a business, I meet with a potential client for a web site or something. It is ESSENTIAL, that I thank them for their time and consideration. If you want some money out of someone, you gotta brownnose a little.?PeteI've gotten jobs through social contacts, newspaper ads, and shotgunning resumes. Ultimately, getting a job is selling yourself, and the same rules apply. My brother runs a fairly successful software consulting business. He once told me you could figure on about a 1% response rate from anysort of marketing. Its all sheer numbers. Send out enough resumes and SOMEBODY will usually bite.?Lets face it. Companies do stupid things, including laying off their best emplyees just because they won't work 24/7 for free. So they have to keep hiring new people to replace the ones they fired. Just remember that when you finally do land that next job, its only temporary. Never stop looking for a better deal.Hi Pete,?I understand how you feel. You have tried very hard to apply jobs, but always employers and recruiters seem to have an excuse?why they neglect your professional background and choose instead an outspoken person whose life is fully in order. Sometimes?they send letters with the message "thank you for your interest toward our company" or mention that our decision did not target to?you. Since quitted my previous job, it has taken more than one year from me to get recruited in another field- nursing. The employer?was not interested in high academic education or high grades, but personality and job experience.?For us aspergers interviews cause often excitement which we can not deal with. We may talk about irrational things and words get?mixed. In ordinary phone interviews we might manage even better.Something that's easy to forget, is that some bosses goof off and that may be why there is an opening to begin with.?The ones that fear being dethroned want a dummy they can torture, not some super geek like one of us that the upper management might take notice of. If they are not there when they are supposed to be (i.e. extended lunch), than you may actually make them look bad!?If they see any possibility that this could happen then it means it's also possible they could one day lose their job to you. Sometimes this too is why people don't get hired!?I wonder how many of us have been told we are "Overqualified" for a job because of that.?Think about it...............................?On the bright side, much can happen in a month. You may even see their position pop-up later in your job hunt, and you can go apply for it. Just always be sure to do your homework on the company especially if they seem too eager.I may be alone here, and don't offer this as advice (I'm gloriously unemployed right now), but I would like to know if I'm the only one who finds computerized prescreening tests almost insurmountable.?I've *never* gotten a job offer from a place that uses prescreening tests -- usually big soulless corporation type places. At this point, I refuse to fill them out. It's either that or *lie* through my teeth on the tests; and I stopped working for people that I had to lie to in order to work for several years ago and am *not* going back.?It takes a *lot* of preparation on my part to walk in and "be charming" with a stranger. Once I've gotten myself ready and actually done it, it's not like I can turn around, run across town, and casually conduct three more interviews the same day. I don't go through all that just to be told by some lowly receptionist "you won't be meeting with *anyone*; so just sit quietly here and take this standardized test which will waste several hours of *your* day before we send you a brush-off form letter two weeks from now".?It would definitely be easier if I could just bring myself to give them the answers they *obviously* want. (They're not exactly "hard":?e.g.,?"I am a team player"/"Agree" or "Disagree"? It's obvious what they *want* to hear.) The problem is that there's no room for subtlety or nuance: there's no option to say "I prefer working alone, anywhere between 70 and 90% of the time, but *do* find satisfaction when the end product of my labours fits seamlssly into a greater whole, the production of which has involved many others as well".?But I've *always* done better in person that with tests -- not terribly well, usually, but *always* better. (Part of me is just sick and tired of being tested all my life.) It's devilishly hard for me to get "ready" for an interview -- after I've gone through the whole "preparation" thing two (or more) times already for what seems to be the three-step process of (a) walking in, (a.1) determining who's in charge, (a.2) getting a feel for the place, and (a.3) asking for an application to begin with; then (b) (b.2) calling back, after (b.1) filling out the application with all the dreadful stuff you've already written out *quite* clearly on your?resume,?except that no employer on earth can apparently ever be bothered to actually *read*?resumes,?making me wonder why we as a culture *have* them); and (c) *finally*, if you're *very* lucky, coming in for an interview.?I'm not going to waste time I could better spend on any other part(s) of that process elsewhere on companies that demonstrate such disregard for my own time and effort before I even show up. It's a matter of basic self-respect, if you ask me. And I'm sure it'll be different for other people, so I repeat: this absolutely, positively ain't advice.??I'll quit ranting now. Enjoying the conversation. Thanks, all.I've encountered those computerized screening tests many times as well, and every time I was turned down for the job. After doing a little research and questioning the validity of those tests, I learned that the answers I gave, honest answers, were what did me in. If you do too well on those tests, especially the ethical "I have/have not ever stolen from my workplace" questions, they automatically assume you're lying and just telling them what they want to hear instead of the truth, so they don't hire you.?I think the idea is that it's a greater risk to hire someone who might lying and rob them blind, than to decline hiring someone who's perfect for the job, so they lump all those "too good" testers together and don't hire any of them. It's shameful, but since the tests themselves don't reveal too much about a person, deciding solely on them whether or not to hire is entirely legal and unpredjudiced.?I was once hired for a job, had a good first day (from my perspective), and when I went back to work the next day, found I had no longer had a job there. They told me it was because my test results weren't what they were looking for in an employee, and that freed them up from the real reason of discriminating against me because I didn't really fit in.This is possibly the area of society where I have the most difficulty. I more or less outright refuse to lie, unless I have absolutely no choice whatsoever, and even then I have to actually work out HOW to do so. So employers inevitably do not hear what they want to from me.?"Are you a team player?" NO! And even if I COULD pretend to be, I would FAIL! So instantly, nobody on the face of the planet wants to have me in their company.?There are countless other job issues for me, but meh, who cares.I've worked in companies of various size doing pretty much the same job in teams mostly but now I've found a recipe that works for me:?1. boss who respects + trusts my opinion?2. small company, less than 10 full-time staff?3. colleagues who i find to be nice people?i have minimal contact with strangers and sometimes spend the day 100% alone - i like this?successful interviews for me have always been when I've demonstrated passion, skill and "clicked" with the intervieweeFor over 30 years I worked in the IT field. I started with main frames. Computers have been my life. I worked several years at my last job but management changed and I was pushed out. In retrospect I didn't have to quit but while in the situation I thought it was my only option. That was 3 years ago. Right after I quit my job I applied for other jobs and got offers but I had lost all confidence. I actually accepted a few jobs but called back before my start date and declined the offers. I was an emotional wreck. My husband told me to take time to rest and heal. We sold our home to have money to live off of but that money is almost gone. I'm ready to work again but I didn't realize that the longer the gap is between jobs, the harder it is to get job offers. Or that IT moves so quickly that any gap in employment would make my skills outdated. Sometimes I don't figure out things that others see as obvious.?In the past year I've applied for hundreds of jobs on-line but most of them are blind so I don't know who the true employer is. I continue to apply at known sites, like government and big companies but IT skills change rapidly and require "recent" experience and often a college degree. I keep applying but haven't been selected for any interviews.?I've found out that a lot of the blind job offers are placed by job placement agencies. Placement agencies contacted me with offers to sign up with them so I signed up with 2 agencies. They immediately offered me call center jobs that paid a fraction of what I had been earning previously. The agencies told me that my IT skills are outdated and that I'll never get back into that field without further training so call center jobs are my only option. I learned all of my computer skills on the job and don't have a college degree. School was a nightmare for me and I totally blank during test taking so I don't consider going back to school an option.?I didn't want to work at a call center. I didn't want to be on a rotating work schedule. I don't drive because of depth perception and spacial awareness issues and public transportation takes a long time and often doesn't run during the weird shifts that a 24/7 call center has. I turned down a couple of call center job offers so the agencies dropped me.?Money became a huge issue so I swallowed my pride and accepted a call center job from a 3rd temp agency. The job was pure hell. I sobbed every night before falling asleep. My training consisted of sitting behind a seriously overworked guy watching his mouse zip rapidly around 3 monitors placed in a semi-circle around him. He took calls in rapid succession and he didn't have time to answer my questions (about what he was doing and his methodology). I tried to write notes but when I looked down to write I missed critical steps in the process. Multiple software apps were used during the process of assisting customers and there were lots of exceptions. I tried writing notes without looking at my writing pad and found I couldn't read them when I was through. After 1.5 days of training I had to work on my own (little cubicle all to myself, which was cool) but I didn't understand what to do. It took me 30 minutes to figure out what others accomplished in 5. Customers got irritated at me. I start babbling when I'm stressed and talk really fast. I couldn't make small talk and work at the same time and if I kept them on hold too long they would hang up. I tried to not let any customer stay on hold longer than 2 minutes but the stress of watching the time while trying to work was too much. I began asking customers if I could call them back once I had processed their request. I thought I could figure out what to do and call them back but the phone kept ringing - and I had to answer the calls. I asked more people if I could call them back. It seemed the right thing to do at the time but I got further behind. At the end of my shift I would sometimes have 20 people that were waiting for me to process their request and call them back. I starting coming to work earlier and earlier, worked through breaks and lunch and stayed late. I didn't get paid for the extra time and I couldn't get caught up. It was awful. I made mistakes and got in trouble. I asked if I could be placed in another position and was told to suck it up and tough it out. I didn't know what to do so I quit after 1.5 weeks. I hated telling people I would call them back and not do it. I try and speak the truth. I hate making mistakes. There were too many variables at this job and no documentation. I made my coworkers mad because I asked too many questions. They didn't understand why I couldn't just figure things out. The work pace was too fast. Because I quit the placement agency that sent me to this job will no longer represent me and it was one of the best agencies in town.?Last week I went to a career counselor and paid to have her review my resume. She recognized my Aspie traits right away. She said that I am in a bad place because I've worked in the same field for so many years. I can't get an IT job because my skills are outdated. Potential employers are intimidated by my resume and don't want to match the salary I was making. I'm considered over qualified if I apply for lesser jobs but those are the only jobs I have a chance at getting. She told me to seriously dummy down my resume, change the job titles, get on-line training on popular software apps and try to sell myself as an office worker in positions that doesn't deal with the public. What a joke. I can't pretend to be something I'm not. The truth would come out in the interview and if an employer called for prior employment verification they would be told the actual job titles I held. Another suggestion was to call a government agency that retrains individuals. I contacted them and the only retaining that they offer is to work in a call center. Aargh!?I'll keep applying for jobs but I wish things were different. I'm old. I don't look professional and don't want to pretend. I have arthritis and can't stand for long, lift or bend. It will be several years before I can apply for Social Security benefits. I'm detail oriented and work very hard. I wish employers considered life experience as valuable as current work experience. I hate to think that my only option is to work in a call center.?Sorry this is so long. I just needed to tell someone who might understand.Hey, I'm new here, and I think I have horrible luck with job hunting.?I've been looking for my stereotypical "first job" since I was 14. 4 years later, I'm still jobless. I've applied to over 70 business within the closest bus route to my house (which encompasses a BIG mall, and 2-3 long roads of nothing but stores). Early on, they didn't want to hire me due to inexperience. I thought from that point "No big deal, right?" I kept on going, looking for any position that was even at a reduced rate of pay, JUST to get that experience that was "so desperately needed." Turns out, my friends were getting jobs to the places I applied, some of which YOUNGER and more INEXPERIENCED than me.?Trying not to be disheartened, I trudged on, looking for that ever-elusive job. I would go to a store, look around on what they had, and listen in on when someone asked for an Application. Afterwards, I would go up myself a few minutes later, and ask for one. Almost EVERY place said that "we're not hiring, or even looking at applications." Then, I looked at online Applications. Upon finishing about 26 online applications, I'd wait a day as instructed online, then go to each store and request the current status of my applications. The first few times were "We haven't received it yet." After the 3rd visit to each place I'd get "You are Under qualified to work here. Try looking for places 'better suited' for your 'talents'" Apparently, I'm under qualified to work at a McDonalds, UDF (a convience store), and Krogers (a "local" Grocery Chain)?This has been going on for 4 years.?Every day, these businesses advertise "We hire anyone looking for work. Even the Mentally Handicapped!" And sure enough, I always see someone with some form of a mental disability asking me if "I want paper or Plastic?" or "Do you want fries with that?" My dad, who I currently live with until graduation, says "IF these F***ing Retards can get jobs, why can't you, you stupid piece of S***? DO I need to put you in a group home like those retards? Maybe they'll help you, B****." (needless to say, he's an arrogant, ignorant muscular middle aged white man with severe anger issues)?I have about a month and a half to find a job before I get kicked out and become homeless. Needless to say, If I'm homeless, I can't go to college. (already accepted to a community college, but no dorms/fraternities) I have no other family alive that could help me.?What are my options? Is there an Agency or group that could help me find work? If I can't find anything in time, where could I go to get assistance?A lot of AS people want to be creative, so they wind up in a lot of freelance, self-employed gigs as computer consultants, house cleaners, music teachers etc. These jobs have no security or benefits. I decide to give up this life for a state govt. job, working with a lot of NT people. I have an advantage here in some ways, since I am more creative and enthusiastic than my co-workers, so they tolerate me. I also get a pension, a medical and dental plan and four weeks of vacation, 13 holidays, 3 prersonal days, and 15 sick days. Yes, there are drawbacks- being in a union environment where everything is based on seniority- The good hours and days off go to those few who have been here a really long time. There are 18 other people here in my pay grade, and although I have been here for 16 years, only 2 of them have less time than me.This is my first post on this forum. I should mention that I’ve never been officially diagnosed with Asperger’s/autism though I think there’s a good chance I have it at a mild level. As a kid, my doctor thought I was mildly autistic but my parents didn’t want me diagnosed due to the stigma attached to the condition back then. I’ve also met quite a few Aspies and generally find them easier to talk to than people without the condition.?I managed to hold down a job at an insurance company for over five years. I always felt out of my element in the corporate world. Your success or otherwise in that environment depends mostly on how well you fit in and how you cope with the company’s (often arbitrary) systems and procedures. Your level of knowledge is often of secondary importance. Nobody tells you this when you’re growing up. The people who *really* succeed in large companies are those who fit in while still allowing their personalities to show. I was never able to do this, and instead I kept myself to myself, carrying out my tasks robotically, not knowing why I was doing them a lot of the time.?As part of my job I had to take a series of exams. These were a life-saver for me. They were hard, but I knew if I put my mind to it I’d have a reasonable chance of passing them. Close to the exams you were given a number of study days, so for one day a week I could be a professional hermit which was great! Every time I passed an exam my salary went up, and this was my main motivating factor. Moving up the corporate ladder never interested me.?I’ve suffered from depression for a long time and in 2009 this began to affect my performance at work. My concentration and short-term memory took a serious hit. I contemplated leaving for several months and I eventually handed my notice in last Christmas. I’ve been out of work since. Looking for jobs has been frustrating. I don’t interview well unless it’s on the phone (I’ve been told I have good facial expressions for phone interviews!). My background naturally leads me to the corporate world but I don’t want to end up there again. I’m now thinking of working in a totally different industry such as mental health (I have some first-hand experience there). Luckily I’ve saved up quite a bit and have largely been living off my savings, but they won’t last for ever. I make word and number puzzles and have made a little money selling those, and I’ve even made some money playing online poker, but I’d like something a bit more concrete I guess.?I found a good article on the Guardian website (British newspaper) about companies employing Aspies (or not). Can I post links on here?xeltifon wrote:I may be alone here, and don't offer this as advice (I'm gloriously unemployed right now), but I would like to know if I'm the only one who finds computerized prescreening tests almost insurmountable.I've *never* gotten a job offer from a place that uses prescreening tests -- usually big soulless corporation type places. At this point, I refuse to fill them out.I agree. The best advice with these soulless corporations with statistical personality tests in the interview process is to run the other way. They are probably not good positions for Aspies to work in. In general, avoid positions that hire masses of people who are easily replaceable, and look for something you are particularly skilled in that is hard to find.?I have never gotten a job where a psychological profile test or personality test has been used in the interview process. For that matter, no employer that uses a systematic interviewing process with large number of interviewees, multiple interviews, or a panel interview of 3 or more interviewers has ever hired me, not even once. And I have been hired over 60 times! Since people with BAP (broader autistic phenotype) make up only 4% of the population, it is natural that we are going to throw off people who are hiring by the "numbers". They will not have a profile or grading key that is understanding of our answers. That is also why we are at risk for misdiagnoses by school counselors and other professionals. We tend to throw off their tests (partially thru literal thinking in our responses). Example: Do you hear voices? Yes, I hear them every day (simple truth).?I do not think that these tests can be cheated, either (depending upon the type, really). You might be able to pass at a higher rate by controlling literal thinking. Just try to think how most people would answer. But if it is a statistically based test then anything you do is likely to go off their charts (the wrong way!).?Now, if it is a skills test, sometimes I can do well enough to get hired. But I will still miss some easy questions and get some of their really hard ones, sometimes.?The jobs I get seem to suit me, and the single interviewer is taken by my strengths. Sometimes I am overqualified, sometimes I am underqualified, but I can squeek through an interview that is low key like that. We all know the studies that they decide in the first 5 seconds, so it is probably my clean-cut dress, and something about my quiet but not unresponsive act. I think that I am mirroring a little. After a few months, the tension has built up and they fire me. But I have survived 5 years in one tech support job, because the work just suited me. Again, the tension built up even there, though.The job search in a big city is a lot different than in a small town. Being in a big city for about 6 months now, I'm finding out that applying for jobs on sites like Monster and Jobnab can be really counter-productive. I think tweaking your resume to fit the job description helps because a lot of employers are looking for specific key words. If you're having trouble, try using a different format with your resume with more bullet points to list your skills. I changed mine and had better luck getting interviews, however, I usually have a hard time with the interviews because I'm so nervous.So while my mind's on it...?My mom is complaining about how me and my brother don't work, even though we are old enough to do so. To top off why we should, this usually leads her into lecturing to us (for the umpteenth time...) about how she use to have 2 jobs and go to college at the same time, neglecting that that was a different generation than now...?The reason why we aren't working, or looking for work is mostly due to the fact that we are currently attending college, which is already overwhelming enough as it is. Also, I don't think it's really a good idea to get a minimum wage job (which is all that we can be do at this time...) while we're attending college because it usually leads to conflicting thoughts and atmosphere, as well as divides us from our major curriculum were hoping to find a career in college.?What should we do? Any advice on what should be done would be nice.Hey Guys,?Im new on here (first post) ... but I am an Aspie and have had some interesting experiences regarding employment due to it. However, God led me to being an Executive Recruiter which I love. It so fits with my Aspergers and other passions and intelligence.?Want to say something about finding a job --- as a recruiter its been my experience that if you try to find a job through the internet, it's pretty much a losing cause. And yes, ALL of the sites right now. I posted a position last Friday before I left for the weekend and on Monday morning I had about 100 resumes in my email box. This was a VP of Sales position - big bucks and there is such a great pool of candidates out there right now. Though I am seeing the economy getting better definitely as a recruiter because there are a lot more jobs out there right now ... more so than in the past 2 to 3 years. That's hopeful ... but applying through sites is not. I have not had one person get hired yet that has come to me through a website posting. Actually, Im going to stop posting any positions b/c folks just apply if they "think" they could be a good fit. My ADVICE: if you are going through Monster or something like that and there is one aspect of the job that is not a fit --- don't waste your time and the employer's time. Too many candidates out there.?Another thing is: I spend about 1- to 15 SECONDS on a resume ... I SKIP ALL INTROS and objectives and descriptions and go right to work history. If the past one or two jobs are not in the industry I am looking for then I move on. THEN, I look to see how long they were at their past two jobs. 2 to 3 years each, I move on.?I have a lot of suggestions about finding a job so if interested, please let me know. I can help with resumes and how to actually get interviews too ... or at least have the best chance to fi you're a good fit for the posted position.?Hope there is a nugget for someone in what I wrote?Thanks,?JimChinaActually the best way to get a job right now is to find out who the hiring manager is (not the HR dept or whoever the resumes are flowing into - they are called 'gatekeepers' and they are meant to keep you out, not get you in) and call them directly. Have a conversation and let them know the position you're interested in and why you're the best - be conversational here - call them directly. There ar various web resources you can use to find WHO hiring manager (decision maker - basically who you would be reporting into - they ultimately decide usually) ... call them directly and if they like you they will contact HR themselves and ask them to put your resume through to him or he/she might even ask for your resume directly. Or they might be upset that you circumvented the whole process ... BUT, chances are your resume will get filtered OUT 98% of the time ... anyway, that's the way to do it - and networking, networking, networking! That's your best betIt seems that this world values people only with confidence, social or intellectual. I have neither, and so can't seem to get a job without needing good customer service skills or without needing A-levels, no matter how hard I'm trying. Anyone else feel the same way, (preferably those who lack confidence)??The type of job what will suit somebody with my frame of mind will be to just work at a computer, just inputting data, somewhere where I don't have to talk to any customers. Also, if it was just part-time work, with suitable hours (preferably 9 til 3, and 2 or 3 days a week). I know that finding this kind of job will be rather difficult, but it is possible because my employment advisor suggested this type of work to me, and is going to help find some for me. He also said that me working just part-time will be more ideal for somebody like me, rather than full-time, and I know he's right, (and no - it's not because I'm lazy. On my days off I will go and do some volluntary work too). I've worked 3 years in a shop, doing volluntary work, and dealing with customers, and although I've gotten confident with working in a team, I haven't seemed to gain any confidence with talking to customers. The manager just left me all on my own on the till, where I practically had the whole responsibility of the shop floor, and I got very overwhelmed when the shop got quite busy (because sometimes about 12 or 13 customers would all start coming in at once, into a small shop). I don't think that kind of thing isn't very good for an Autistic person, who finds social pressure more harder than anything (also I suffer with an anxiety disorder). Customers could see that I was overwhelmed and unconfident, and so decided to take advantage of me by haggling the way into getting something cheaper or for free, and me (being timid and afraid to argue back to strangers), let them get away with it. So, no, I really don't think me being alone with customers is very practical. Surely others on the spectrum must know how that feels.Choose a work environment that fits your personality. When I was a teenager, I lived in a town with a big IBM headquarters. The people that worked there were paid well.Our high school teachers and guidance counselors just assumed that everyone wanted jobs like that--9-5 suit-wearing jobs in a high rise cubicle, office parties, team player, cog in a wheel, shuffling papers all day, type of employment. It scared me to hell. The corporate image of what a job had to be was so engrained in my mind-that I wasted many years trying to land the kind of job for which I was ill suited, which I could not have kept, and which would have made me very unhappy. I wish there had been a counselor around who would have pointed out to me that I could have become a zookeeper or taxi driver or train conductor or sold tickets in a theater and been just as "successful." If the paychecks were smaller, the stress would be as well and I would have been much happier than continually trying to become someone I was not. It was not until I was thirty that I realized that "work" does not have to be the kind of corporate-style torture that I had long envisioned it to be. Since then I have worked continuously, often at jobs for which I was overqualified and most always at jobs for which I was underpaid.If I could give any advice to young aspies just starting out it would be not to try to force themselves into a kind of work environment in which they would not thrive just because it constitutes other people's idea of "job success " NTs think success solely depends on the size of their salary, but as an aspie I have found that a comfort level which allows me to be productive and happy is more important.girl7000 wrote:Part of the problem is that some organisations / managers / interviewers take 'personality' into account too much. They forget that they are employing you to do a job, not to be their new best friend.I once had my contract stopped by an employer because although they kept telling me that the quality of my work was really good, and also demonstrated this by their actions (asking me to train and help others etc.) they just couldn't cope with having someone who was 'different' in the office.A friend of mine who was quite senior there says that part of the problem was that I didn't go drinking with everyone after work - but that was not my job and if you have AS surely it is perfectly understandable that you don't want to go to a noisy, smelly pub. And I can't drink anyway because of meds.BINGO! More and more these days corporate white collar bosses and managers are expecting their "team" to be with them at lunches and for various spontaneous after hours celebrations for things non-job oriented such as send offs for employees leaving, birthdays, deal celebrations, etc... The corporate and academic work places essentially want to assimilate everyone into their culture. Work/ Academic office is the new village culture and if you don't do these extras you are excluded.?I used to work for the late brick and mortar Borders and Looking back with hindsight I can appreciate why they never allowed their managers to attend staff outings. It makes sense. They wanted to do everything possible to discourage work bias based on socializing. Honestly I was an idiot for leaving though I needed a drastic increase in pay.?Are other retail, media and tech companies similarly accepting and control for performance bias??Borders was one of the only places where I did not feel judged although my aspieness was a challenge when it came to customer service and chewing the fat, but my knowledge was able to ameliorate the effects and was ultimately appreciated.?We need a more organized board for this topic. The sole focus should be to list and describe the environments and skills demanded of work places that best fit someone in the spectrum. Borders and book stores I would include in that list, along with libraries, computer tech, certain fields in construction or engineering (???), cable repair tech (once you are trained you drive around alone) ...?Let's do it!God forbid if something were to happen to my job I would move to Texas. You have to go to where the unemployment is lowest. Here in SoCal I cannot count how many people are out of work and cannot find a job. San Bernardino a city just an hours drive from Los Angeles has a poverty rate second only to Detroit. Things are bad here so I would move to a better place with better opportunities.Florida isn't much better.Avoid anything sales, marketing or customer service -?Narrow down job search to cubicle jobs where you can wear headphone all day and have little human interaction.?Why is there no advice about how to live without an income. The excepts never address that. Please tell me how to you're able to buy gas or even bus tickets to look for work when you're broke. How about the worthlessness and hopeless one feels because they're unemployable. Suicide rates are higher amongst the unemployed. These are concerns that often get ignored from job advice excepts. I bet none of them lived a day in poverty.romanianroyality wrote:Job searching Is Worse than having a job I hate. I hate the rejectionsI agree with this.I have yet to land a job after 1.5 years of applying (just graduated with my masters in IT management this summer).?I can get to the final round of interviewing, but not land the job.So far this is what I have been told in rejections:1) You do not have enough industry experience: I have three IT internships, various projects, An associates degree, double bachelors, and now my masters in IT management.?2)You are not perfect enough and we are holding out for the perfect candidate.?3) We want someone who will hit the ground running with minimal training (even General Motors IT told me this, when I interviewed with them).?4) You are too rigid and strict with your behavior during the interview...5) You aren't strict enough with your behavior during the interview...6) you are just off...Funny enough I couldn't get any more internships after the summer of 2011 due to my "lack" of industry experience.?The previous dean of my school, who I knew, couldn't find internships for his program either.I was told that job descriptions list everything an employer would like in a?perfect?applicant, and that they don't expect someone to fit that exact list. I was encouraged to apply to jobs that have one or two skills listed that I don't have.My question to employers is, Is that true? Obviously, I'm not going to apply for a medical position when I have no medical training of any sort. But, I have read job descriptions that list everything I can do, but I will skip applying (against previously advice, since it has got me nowhere), because it will have one line that reads something like, "Must know building codes for ______ county". Are there people wandering around that know building codes off the top of their heads?Don't companies give leeway to hire someone willing to learn? I have a lot of experience in accounting, namely Peachtree. Most every place specifies QuickBooks. They are very similar. I found a job for anoffice clerk?with a?high school?diploma (I have a Bachelor's), but the job?required?knowledge of QB. So I am underqualified in an overqualified sort of way. It seems a little strange that a company would give an office clerk accounting tasks to do - unless, of course, the job title reflects the pay scale. If they posted a bookkeeping job, applicants might expect more money.Employers will list their qualifications for a perfect candidate. I think that's fair. I'm sure you have your qualifications for a perfect mate. However, that does not mean that you or the employer will get their perfect match. As applicants, we all go through this. I have reviewed procurement jobs that are looking for college grads with engineering degrees. Engineering degrees?!?! Anyway...If it's a job you think you are qualified for, apply for it. As the poster above mentioned, let the employer determine if they will contact you.Originally Posted by?Hemlock140?Maybe back in the 90s we would "settle, but not any more. I recently interviewed 15 of 30 applicants but none were really qualified, so we re-opened the recruitment. The second time we interviewed 10 and hired the one and only person that was really qualified. Too many people exaggerate and try to BS in the interviews. We are able to detect that right away with our questions ans work sample project, and have been able to get people that fit not only the required knowledge, skills, and education, but also the preferred.Are "entry level jobs" a thing of the 90's too?You must understand (as an employer) that there are people of all walks of life out there looking for work, college students can only learn "so much" with internships, so how are we supposed to become "experts", and "perfect candidates" exactly? if we are self taught that doesn't even count!IMO these descriptions are a way to discriminate. How would I "figure out" what someone else is looking for? we're not mind readers. I don't think this is "fair practice" at all. I think it is fair to look for a good candidate, but not expect that we all magically "know" what the employer is looking for.Don't you think people would be less likely to BS their resumes if they were offered an opportunity at a job, and be judged ONLY on their true experience/education pertinent to the job they applied to? people know that their Facebook pages, appearances, and all sorts of other factors are actually accounted for instead of their actual qualifications or ability to do X job.How were people hired before Facebook?No, in fact we have no jobs (of about 2,000) that could be considered entry level, defined as not requiring experience. If experienced people were not available we would have to go back to that, but there are plenty of candidates with experience available now if we get the word out. We do not use Facebook in evaluating employees, and appearance is not a factor. It's whether we think they can do the work, and really want to be there.Originally Posted by?Hemlock140?No, in fact we have no jobs (of about 2,000) that could be considered entry level, defined as not requiring experience. If experienced people were not available we would have to go back to that, but there are plenty of candidates with experience available now if we get the word out. We do not use Facebook in evaluating employees, and appearance is not a factor. It's whether we think they can do the work, and really want to be there.I am really curious to know what field you're in that does NOT have a need for entry level jobs, and where everyone was born an expert professional!Originally Posted by?metamorphosis?I was told that job descriptions list everything an employer would like in a?perfect?applicant, and that they don't expect someone to fit that exact list. I was encouraged to apply to jobs that have one or two skills listed that I don't have.My question to employers is, Is that true? Obviously, I'm not going to apply for a medical position when I have no medical training of any sort. But, I have read job descriptions that list everything I can do, but I will skip applying (against previously advice, since it has got me nowhere), because it will have one line that reads something like, "Must know building codes for ______ county". Are there people wandering around that know building codes off the top of their heads?Don't companies give leeway to hire someone willing to learn? I have a lot of experience in accounting, namely Peachtree. Most every place specifies QuickBooks. They are very similar. I found a job for an?office clerk?with a?high school?diploma (I have a Bachelor's), but the jobrequired?knowledge of QB. So I am underqualified in an overqualified sort of way. It seems a little strange that a company would give an office clerk accounting tasks to do - unless, of course, the job title reflects the pay scale. If they posted a bookkeeping job, applicants might expect more money.To try and bring this thread back on topic...When I post a position, I do post ALL of the qualities and qualifications would possess. Usually with the lead in "The ideal candidate will..." Of the 15 some odd "requirements", I look for applicants that tick the most boxes - with a few that are absolutely imperative, and the rest are "nice to haves", since it will cut down my training curve. I generally phone interview everyone who ticks the "must have" boxes, and definitely allow for trainability, etc.When you see things like the building code requirements, etc. You're likely seeing a posting for a VERY specialized position that would generally be filled from in-house talent. However, many companies will post those externally after an internal posting period if they're trying to expand the applicant pool.Moral of my story. Don't worry about ticking every box. Try to reason which ones would be imperatives and tailor your submission to those, or go "shotgun approach" and see what your net catches.Originally Posted by?algia?I am really curious to know what field you're in that does NOT have a need for entry level jobs, and where everyone was born an expert professional!I think the bottom line is that the company he works at simply doesn't hire entry-level people. Some companies can probably afford to do that if they are high up on the food chain (think Microsoft, Boeing, etc.). Companies like that poach experienced workers that may have started working at another company as entry-level. Essentially, they use smaller companies that do hire on entry-level candidates as their proverbial farm-system. I started at a small company as entry-level, they didn't seem to mind. Once I got enough experience out of that job, I moved on to a job/company that required more experience.My gatherings of what employers are looking for:-College education-No criminal record-Little or no debt-Strong references-Flexible and/or open schedule"Aim for the moon, if you miss, then at least you are among other stars."I once was called for an open position that required about 50 different qualifications and 20+ years of qualifying experience. I met all qualifications but only had 13 years of qualifying experience. The recruiter said it was no biggy, just as long as I had over 10 years experience.??I asked the recruiter why do you even post that all applicants "MUST HAVE 20+ YEARS OF EXPERIENCE"?She told me that it increases their chances of finding quality applicants.?Almost a year later, several of those positions are still open now with the same "MUST HAVE 20+ YEARS OF EXPERIENCE" in the ad. I bet a lot of people don't apply just for that line.The job was in a war zone by the way.Originally Posted by?Tekkie?I think the bottom line is that the company he works at simply doesn't hire entry-level people. Some companies can probably afford to do that if they are high up on the food chain (think Microsoft, Boeing, etc.). Companies like that poach experienced workers that may have started working at another company as entry-level. Essentially, they use smaller companies that do hire on entry-level candidates as their proverbial farm-system. I started at a small company as entry-level, they didn't seem to mind. Once I got enough experience out of that job, I moved on to a job/company that required more experience.Ok.?But what would someone do in this scenario:has degreeno entry level jobs in their field (graphic design let's say)nobody is hiring without 2+ experience and 4 year degreehow should someone out of school gain 2+ years of in house work? its a catch22. Craigslist jobs don't pay the rent. Should a graphic designer gain in house graphic design experience at McDonalds while flipping burgers?This exactly this, so much this. No problem starting at the bottom, problem is when there is no bottom to start at what does one do??Unless you can afford/find a internship (paid/unpaid) in your field then you will have to take the minimum wage job for the meantime because you can't afford to have months of unemployment on your resume. Now does that job at McDonalds or Target or Best buy make you look any better in getting that entry level job that requires 1-2 years of previous graphic design expereince?- I have no idea but I have to imagine it looks better than the guy who sat at home for 3months straight, unemployed.Yes it is a catch 22 everyone wants expereince but no one is willing to give it in the first place and yes it is frustrating as hell but for whatever reason it is just the world we live in right nowHonestly I would (and proably will once summer comes and school is out) just take the minimum wage work and keep applying for the "idea" position on the side.Entry-level jobs ARE out there. The problem is location - you'll have to seek out a stronger job market to find those positions.It's a basic supply/demand issue. When supply exceeds demand, employers are going to look for the most cost-effective way to run their business, which usually involves bringing in proven quantities that don't require a training curve.Your resume doesn't list any skills! Highlight your skills instead of the mundane tasks in some high school workshop. I think employers would be more interested in knowing that you're familiar with OOP concepts and have the skills you outlined in this post over what you have detailed in your resume.?Originally Posted by?statisticsnerd?That's right. In interviews, pretend like you developed the cure for cancer.I was eating lunch one day and a guy was interviewing at the table next to me. It was hilarious listening to him talk. You would think he was some kind of superhero by the way he talked up his "accomplishments" and skills. What the interviewer does is select the person who does the best job of BSing. It's all so fake.I so agree. Unfortunately introverts fit into one of HR's lists of broad baseless stereotypes that they are antisocial, poor communicating, nonteam players so they are discriminated against like crazy by employers. I really have very little sympathy for American companies whining about poor employees.Beware of using Careerbuilder and other Job Search Forums while looking for Employment.I am unemployed and I have been looking for work. I have been getting SPAMMED by Temporary Staffing Agencies calling me up out the blue and demanding I go in to register with them. Also, half the agencies are calling up inquiring about my HR contacts only. They simply want company Leads. I have worked for various Temporary Staffing firms for three years now and I personally know about 4 people who have gone permanent at the companies. Out of about 600 people. These companies lie and put people through too many changes. So it is especially frustrating to be getting spammed and called out the blue several times a day from them. I only want a permanent job.?I could not understand how they were getting my information and I called up to Careerbuilder and was informed by the first associate to google the companies. I started googling every company and lo and behold every single one was a temp agency even though they portray the job as not being through a temporary staffing firm.?So I then went to Advanced Options and intentionally excluded Temporary Staffing firms from coming up in my search results and they still came up. So I called Careerbuilder back again and this time spoke to a manager who became very heated with me and seemed offended I didn't want to work for a Temporary Staffing firm even though he wasn't working for one. He yelled at me they were still jobs. I told him I had excluded them in my search results so why were they still coming up and he stated because Careerbuilder allows them to not have to classify the job as a temp even though the job is a temporary job. He said if the person has the option to go permanent then the temporary agency will not be excluded if you exclude temporary agencies in your search results. I told him this was misleading to people and that even if you worked one day through a temporary staffing firm the job should still be listed as so.This allows the temporary staffing agencies, many of whom have taken "temporary staffing firm" out of their names to portray themselves as direct employer companies. This is misleading. He did not care.?He also did not seem to care that these agencies are using careerbuilder as only a means to contact people (basically soliciting) people to register with them when they have no jobs for them and to solicit leads by inquiring about HR contacts from each employer on the resume.I would suggest to you to no longer use Job Boards... Call up your local Chamber of Commerce and get a list of Employers in your city and apply directly with them.?Also, lest I forget, Careerbuilder is also full of erroneous job postings, Spam, and people who are phishing for information. A year ago I recieved emails from both Careerbuilder and advising me that several of the websites that I had linked to directly from job postings on their site were erroneous. I had placed my social security number, birthdate and everything in the applications.?These companies are unscrupulous and sleazy!!!!Yep, CareerBuilder seems to be inundated with temp staff agency posts.I noticed that about Careerbuilder also, Monster and are exactly the same way temp agencies acting as employersBack when I used careerbuilder my searches always churned out temp jobs and the like. I remember that whenever I updated my resume I would be contacted by people offering an interview in areas at least 1 or more hours away from home, but quick google searches informed me that these "interviews" were nothing more than seminars about how to get started in sales and other gigs. In order to participate fully you had to pay of course. Eventually I pulled my resume and information from both careerbuilder and monster. I've never known a single person to find a job through either of these sites, whether directly or indirectly.careerbuilder is super sketch. i haven't been a job searcher in over a year and i still get emails from them about such and such company who is "very interested in me"?. all you need is a hs diploma and access to the internet and you can make $3,000 a month working part-time from home!Originally Posted by?arcover1?Just curious, lately I have heard and read that the newest trend ( I loosely call it that...) and the best chances of getting employment is through networking and the best bet is Linked In. I really don't want to deal with that mess. Any thoughts on this anyone?Never got a thing through LinkedIn. It is good if you are employed and have an in-demand skill and tons of contacts. Then people will pay attention to working can work, but a lot of people pretend they have power and tell you things, and you feel you're getting somewhere, so always take it with a grain of salt.?You get the same scams networking as online...pay us $XXX and you can get the tools to apply to this job!I'm here to shed some light on some of the recruiters I've dealt with in the past few years. A few weeks ago I met with a recruiter from Aerotek, supposedly the biggest recruiting company in the US. He contacted me through Linkedin and expressed opportunities for me (I'm currently employed). I was not impressed with their efforts at all. I've met many recruiters throughout my years and they are all the same. Only call you that one time they have a job opening that their computer system deem is a match for me. I feel like a recruiter should help me find a job, not just call me when something happens to pop up, and they could make some commission off me.Anyway, while I was waiting for the recruiter to show up, another job seeker was in the waiting room with me. His recruiter arrives at 4:00pm and they go into a conference room close by. I overhear the following:Recruiter: What time did you get here? Because I thought our meeting was at 3:30pm?Seeker: I was here at 3:20pm.Recruiter: Oh? Because I didn't get the call from the receptionist until 3:40pm.That didn't sit well with me. So the receptionist notified you at 3:40pm and you still waited 20 minutes before coming out to see him? He knew someone was waiting and made them wait?Then the recruiter goes on to belittle the experience at the seeker had. Saying stuff like, "Obviously your tactics are not working if you're unemployed for a year." Just very rude in general.When my recruiter finally showed, he was more professional but still tried to talk down my experience as well. Keep in mind, I'm fully employed and just looking for new work, so I have leverage to tell him no. He goes on about a new position that may be right for me, but offering less than what I'm asking. I found out through my own job search, that same position he referred to is offering more than my asking price. So not sure what kind of game he was trying to play.I don't think I'll do business with Aerotek anymore in the future. Sounds like their training program is to teach recruiters to psychologically break down the job seekers so they have more control and leverage. I have a private small recruiter that I'm dealing with now and they are wonderful. Helps me look instead of keeping me in their system.?That's my story, just wanted to share it.Recruiters are some of the dumbest people I have ever met and dealt with. My brother was telling me not too long ago he was about to b**slap his recruiters across the face for being so damn stupid. I have the same feelings about most of the recruiters I have dealt in the past as well. The decisions they make, the people they pick for interviews are just mind boggling at times.Yeah, I hate Aerotek. They and Kelly are ignoring my job applications for jobs I'm qualified for in Chicago.I refuse to deal with recruiters. Had a few try to disguise their temp jobs as real jobs. One wanted me to drive to Ohio without disclosing that it was a temp position. Luckily, after researching more, I found out it was a recruiter, not an actual employer.?Last year, I worked at a place that hired a few temps. The regular workers for the positions getting filled were getting $14.00/hr. The temps they brought in were getting minimum wage. The company has no control over how much the temps get paid. The temp agency makes their money by paying as little as possible. At minimum wage, it was only a matter of time before these workers bailed. And they all did by the end of the month. Temp agency made out like a bandit and the company paid full price for a minimum wage worker. I wish these temp agencies would get driven out of business.Might just be me, but the recruiters I have spoken with sound very unprofessional. Sounds like they just hire any ol dolt off the street to do the talking.Many recruiters (Manpower, Aerotek, ExpressPros, etc..) are not getting any orders/clients these days so to remain relevant, they will post jobs that don't even exist or make sales calls (like in your case finding you on LinkedIn) just so they look busy to their higher-ups. So, don't take it personally when they are talking down or belittling you (or others), it is a symptom of the emptiness they feel themselves since they are getting very few clients. It is very hard for them to survive too.?Also, jobs with these types of companies tend to be volatile, like they can get cancelled anytime with short notice. The jobs they send you to also tend to be very crappy and horrible work environments. So, if the job environment where you are now is peaceful (as in drama-free) and the pay is decent, stay there and save.?I would typically apply for jobs where I have about 50% of the stated requirements. I have found that sometimes, the job description is inaccurate and that the hiring manager does not need many or most of these requirements, or are willing to let you "learn them while on the job".Decreasing the number of H1B workers coming to the USA will increase wages for some US tech workers and also increase the number of job opportunities for some US tech workers.?I am a tech worker and there are more H1B workers in my specialty then there are US workers. They are my coworkers but when I am applying for a new gig, they are my competition.However, based on my experiences, OFFSHORING (sending the work to people in other countries) is impacting US tech workers just as much or possibly more than H1Bs. In the past few years I had several tech jobs where the work was sent to other countries rather than use US workers.Unless we start making things in the United States this country is going to fail. Americans need good jobs. I would gladly have just one winter coat instead of a closet full if it meant American's were making it.Originally Posted by?sware2cod?Decreasing the number of H1B workers coming to the USA will increase wages for some US tech workers and also increase the number of job opportunities for some US tech workers.?I am a tech worker and there are more H1B workers in my specialty then there are US workers. They are my coworkers but when I am applying for a new gig, they are my competition.However, based on my experiences, OFFSHORING (sending the work to people in other countries) is impacting US tech workers just as much or possibly more than H1Bs. In the past few years I had several tech jobs where the work was sent to other countries rather than use US workers.Read an article where IT guys had to train the H1B workers replacing them or lose their severance and UI benefits.?Though H1B visas are supposed to be for jobs that can't be filled with U.S. workers, these jobs were already filled with U.S. workers.By the way, I've also read that some of that offshoring is coming back. Tech support, for example, is gradually moving back as people get discouraged with tech support reps they can't understand and who aren't much help anyway.Years ago, I got so frustrated with Dell tech support for the above reason that I decided I would never buy another Dell again and we haven't.Now, I wasn't a huge loss to Dell, but I suspect I am not the only one in this boat."?If we secured the borders and cut back on legal immigration, would we get hired easier?"Short answer--yes, accounting for such things as increased automation and outsourcing.Long answer--yes, and that's why we're never going to control immigration effectively in this country. It's too powerful and profitable a means of undercutting wages and keeping the labor force docile, and the agreement amongst elites on this is bipartisan to the max.The best way to level the playing field for lower wage workers is to impose significant fines on employers not following the law. If these fines are based on how much money was made illegally and all bank accounts and assets would be frozen until the IRS could make a proper determination, I'll bet things would turn around in a quick hurry.There's a visa program for farm workers. But the farmers who use it are at a disadvantage over those who don't go to the trouble. This would encourage everyone to use it.The visa program would be a good deal for everyone.?By being able to come back and forth legally, the workers could earn a decent living to support their families and still maintain their homes wherever they came from.It would level the playing field for farmers.It would mean the country wouldn't be filled with people living in the shadows and all the problems that brings.Originally Posted by?charlygal?Why are you equating "good jobs" with manufacturing?Because a successful economy has to manufacture the goods it uses. Manufacturing of goods is the driver in any large economy.Originally Posted by?ccm123?Many of these positions that skilled and educated H1B workers fill, may not be able to be filled locally by Americans. If there was an equivalent (by skill and education level) American available locally, chances are they would be able to compete with their skills and education for a similar position.I see you are still fooled by the smoke and mirrors game coming from big corporations (and some politicians).There are Americans with the education and skills to fill these jobs. The companies have tricky ways of making sure no Americans get the jobs, so the companies meet the legal criteria to hire H1Bs. The companies want the H1Bs because they work for a much lower wage.?For example, the company will advertise for a job opening and they will advertise a wage that is 40% below market rate wage based on the skills/education they are asking for. Also the skillset they advertise is so specific that they purposesly are trying to limit the number of applicants. They will still get applicants that quality, but the applicants are looking to get a wage that is more in line with reality, and not a wag that is 40% below market rate.?After a certain amt of time, the company then accepts H1B visa holders, who will gladly work for 40% below market rate so that they can either get into the USA, or stay in the USA. They want to be in the USA so bad that they will work for low rates - much lower than market rate. This is kind of like paying their dues so that they can eventually get their green card and permanently stay in the US. Once they get their green card, they are no longer on H1B visa. At that point they switch jobs and find something that is market rate.?There is a constant flow of new H1B visa holders coming to the US and they will take lower pay. This is why H1Bs are driving down pay rates - because H1Bs will work for low rates for the period of time they are H1Bs. Look at it almost like a internship for students. When students intern they work for lower pay so they could get experience. With H1B visa holders, they will work for lower pay while they wait for their green card.Too many people do not realize that HR is not there for the employees; they're there for the employer, and what little they do for the employees is merely to cover the employer's legal butts. This is valuable info wherever you go.Originally Posted by?MongooseHugger?..You must have noticed that?the H1B's are threatening the upper level stuff while illegals as well as some legal immigrants are threatening the lower levels.?The only levels NOT hit are the?CEO's, Congressmen, lobbyists, etc.You are right. What would definitely happen is that wages would be higher. I'm not sure if there would be more jobs, though. The dream of every CEO is to cut labor costs as low as possible.Those lazy (some of them), entitled losers who think they are smarter than you (engineers ha ha) and don't want to work 16 hours a day for no overtime, have the nerve to want rights and protections?! OMG and LOOK how much they cost!??They will fight for the H1B program and to get as many people into the tech job pool as they can.If there are no labor unions, this dilutes the power of the workforce. You can get more work for less money...so you can buy the new yacht you want...and keep the labor costs low for skilled labor. As for the unskilled labor, I've said this before that it benefits some of us as we can get work done for less $$ and avoid surly, greedy, entitled contractors.I've had so many of them rip me off or try to rip me off, that I'm happy to see one of our hermanos from down south on a job. This IS anonymous, right? I'm not hiring them directly at any rate Uncle Sam. To the contractors who screwed me, who is going to pay for your boat or new monster truck now? But yeah, that is mean since H1-Bs do the same in my field.Wages have gone up about 20% here in Ohio over the past 15 years. Cost of living has gone up 40%. Do the math. We are falling behind and nothing is being done about it.Another thing. It's not just a wage problem, it's a cost of living crisis as well. Cities like NY and Los Angeles are so expensive you need to be a millionaire to live there now. Things were never like this before. People are being priced into poverty.I have seen the future and there is a good chance I will have to retire out of the country because the US will be so cost prohibitive to live in I will never be able to retire. Will start out where ever my fiance wants to retire and then if I am the only one left I might retire to siberia ... as long as its affordable and I can import what I need.Quote:Originally Posted by?zie92mg9z?Wages have gone up about 20% here in Ohio over the past 15 years. Cost of living has gone up 40%. Do the math. We are falling behind and nothing is being done about it.Another thing. It's not just a wage problem, it's a cost of living crisis as well. Cities like NY and Los Angeles are so expensive you need to be a millionaire to live there now. Things were never like this before. People are being priced into poverty.A lot of people like to blame Obama for the ills of this country - while he has been a disappointment to the extreme, I lay the blame the nation's job crises at the feet of the employers, both large and small. There are millions and millions of people in this country that want a job, NEED a job and yet can't get one, regardless of how hard they try.?For people of disabilities, such as myself, it's damn near impossible. Denied a way to *earn* a living, millions of people are forced to turn to the government just to survive - just look at the rise in food stamps and disability over the past few years. I would bet that a great percentage of those people would love to be able to earn a living at a regular job, 40 hours a week, etc. But even people with plenty of education AND experience can't get a job, due to onerous application requirements and discriminatory hiring methods. And with so many people out of work and not looking for work (gets too depressing after a while, most ppl can't handle being told "no" ad infintum for years on end), the economy won't grow, less tax revenue will be collected and spending will rise, to aid those who can't make a living. Yes, there's a few, a FEW people out there that won't work no matter what, but most people who aren't working would LOVE to have a job if they could obtain one.?But what really makes me sad that it didn't always used to be this way. In the late 1990's, they were letting people work barefoot, they wanted people to work so bad. Any old sap that could show up at a job could get a job. May not have paid much, but it was work. But now, in the year 2013, six years after the Great Recession, job are exceedingly hard to find. I'm not talking $70, 80k, 90k jobs, I'm talking blue collar stuff, entry level, low-skill labor, etc. I can remember going into a temp agency and being put to work that very same day? Amazing, huh? Work was easy to be had, the only excuse for not working was laziness, plain and simple. America was a truly a great place to be. I mourn for good times lost, I really do.?But now, all that's gone. America is a harsher, colder place. Other countries, like Australia and Germany, are booming to no end, and everyone who wants to work is able to work. Here in America, jobs are there for those who continue to work them - maintain a steady employment, you'll be okay for the most part. But for folks like me and people that I know that have been out of work a long time, it's very, very close to impossible to get a job, unless some you know personally is able to give it to you. Well, I don't know too many people, so my chances are slim to none. I'm not looking for a handout, I'm looking for a way to earn a basic wage. I hate to think that's too much to ask.?I don't know how this came to be, but I place the blame for this jobs crisis at the feet for those who are responsible for creating jobs for America. Consider it a public duty, if you will, to put people to work, those who NEED to work, not just the "best and brightest." If you don't do this, I predict that this country will move steadily to the left, eventually becoming a fully Marxist state, in which the government controls nearly the entire economy. Just take a peek at the ongoing Obamacare debacle and imagine that on an economy-wide scale. Not pretty!??But that's exactly what will happen if people don't get hired and WORKING. Without people working, and too many people depending on too few, I just don't see how this country can hold it together much longer.?Wanna solve this problem? Hire me! (this goes for millions of others as well)It's not employers' fault that there is not sufficient demand to justify hiring more workers, and that the govt keeps piling on the regulations and expenses for their companies. You're asking employers to hire workers and pay them with money they don't have. That would be like me telling you "Companies need more people to buy stuff, so go out and buy a boat and a car and some fancy clothes and nice dinners." You don't have the money to do that (I assume...), so companies should not expect you to do that.That said, we are very slowly climbing out of this hole. Things would likely be better than they are had some particular elections gone differently (hey, Reagan turned around Carter's mess in one term, what's Obama's excuse?), but what's done is done. All you can do is make yourself marketable to employers, since there ARE jobs out there. If you don't meet the qualifications to take those jobs, THAT is what you can change to better your life. The choice is yours. Good luck!So....you want people to create jobs out of thin air? Someone wealthy should just start up a business with the sole purpose of giving jobs to those who need them without any regard for their own financial stability or needs or business savvy?While I agree that all the joblessness can't be blamed on our president(s), I certainly don't feel that it is the public duty of those who are able to employ those who want to work. At that point, you're basically saying it is their job to provide for you - you may be willing to work for it, but if they have to create unnecessary work for that to happen....well, they might as well just cut you a check each month.As someone who's trying to break into an entry level career I can kinda relate to this post. When you try to apply for an entry level job these days they want everything.?Even to be an Academic Advisor at a public university you will most likely need a masters degree... And I haven't come across an academic advising position that pays more than $45,000. (Not that I need to be making more than $45K, I'm just saying for a masters degree you think they'd pay more...)Same with non profit orgs, they want x years of experience even for just admin assistant positions. It can be so discouraging because all I want to do is make a living and do something that makes a difference. I thought about going into nursing, but poop and vomit freak me out.Originally Posted by?Cheektowaga_Chester?In a nutshell, what is your job experience?What education level have attained? Degree? In what?Also realize, the purpose of a company or employer isn't to provide jobs. The purpose is to make money (for you and me, the stakeholders). If firing people means I'll make more money, then that is what I want. Efficiency and profits and increase in share value.Yep, and someday somebody else will see their shares go up when you're sent out the door... seems fair.As is always the case, not one supporter of the "Let businesses do whatever they want so long as it increases profit!" has the ability to answer the following questions if we decide to let all corporations do that:1) Who will pay the employees enough to buy all your wonderful products? We all know the answer - "somebody else." Caged-in Foxconn slaves in China can't afford iPhones - oh, but China is now developing a middle class, so the jobs are moving elsewhere... no shock there. Can't let the workers earn enough to be able to buy anything... nevermind how we're supposed to have consumers to sell the products too in the future. Maybe we can drown them in more debt for a while longer...2) How will we retain a functional society? Newsflash - people who are dirt poor thanks to exploitative labor practices are not going to be the ones paying lots of taxes to support roads, bridges, clean water, electricity, etc. All that stuff that we enjoy in the 1st world yet which is oddly uncommon in poverty stricken regions of the world where slave labor is still effectively practiced. Oh, and no, corporations aren't going to magically do any of this since there's no real money in it - if there was, we'd have privately built highways everywhere and no corner of the world would be lacking clean water, electricity, and so on. But that's not the way things work.Just because a corporation has only a single interest - to make money at all costs - doesn't mean that interest is in the best interest of society as a whole. Heck, organized crime has a similar goal, and we don't stand around justifying their behavior... difference between avoiding the law and paying people to write them in your favor, but I digress.The end state of human civilization if greed and power is left unchecked is obvious. Just look around the world at all the poverty-riddled, heck-hole nations where people live in dung huts and starve every day. And, in every one of those nations, there's a small fraction of elite who live like kings. One is kidding oneself if you don't think the elite in this nation would be happy with the same outcome here, and no doubt the sociopaths at the top in those nations will also gladly do anything if it increases their power and money. Funny how it's not okay there. Of course, nobody aside from the dictator and his cronies profits when he oppresses the working class, while in civilized nations we can watch our stocks go up even as our jobs vanish - hoorah!?Originally Posted by?Rambler123?Yep, and someday somebody else will see their shares go up when you're sent out the door... seems fair.As is always the case, not one supporter of the "Let businesses do whatever they want so long as it increases profit!" has the ability to answer the following questions if we decide to let all corporations do that: ...I agree with a lot in this post, I live in a pretty conservative area so it's not often that I get to see other people's points of view.?I get tired of people who place blame on the unemployed, as if finding jobs are so easy. I'm in my early 20's and I'm scared to death of the future and what's going to happen. I keep reading about the gap between the wealthy and the middle class and the poor getting bigger and it makes me question how my future will be. I grew up in an upper middle class area, my parents bought me a new car before I went off to college, I always had everything I needed and then some. Now I'm beginning to question if that's a life I'll have for myself. Will I have enough money to save for retirement and vacations? Or will I be living in poverty??Not to mention I feel like many people (including employers) judge people my age because I'm "generation X" or whatever. I feel like they automatically classify me as entitled, clueless, and lazy. When the reality is that I just want someone to give me a chance to build a career and make a living. Really! That's all I want!Originally Posted by?timberline742?Yeah, it is. Those regulations are in response to the companies doing things that are ethically wrong and they shouldn't be doing anyway. If they acted like good corporate citizens and didn't create the need for the regulations, the regulations wouldn't be enacted.No the regulations are in response to a handful of employees at a handful of companies doing things that were already illegal, and government agents that allowed it to happen because of personal or political gain or just being lazy about doing their job.?Now you have new regulations and rules being put into place for the companies that already followed the rules, while the companies and their leaders that have no problem breaking the old rules will continue to break the new rules.Yeah, the old "it was just a handful of wrongdoers, while most of us were playing by the rules, now we're being punished" bit. I've been around long enough to know better. Sorry. Heck, playing by the rules isn't good enough, especially when companies write their own rules through their paid off politicians. Rules and laws are MINIMUM ethical standards, good corporate citizens should be holding themselves to a higher standard if they don't want more regulations. But how often do we see banks, natural resource companies, etc do that? No, its about profit and just keeping on the legal side of the rules they write for themselves. Not good enough.Originally Posted by?timberline742?Yeah, the old "it was just a handful of wrongdoers, while most of us were playing by the rules, now we're being punished" bit. I've been around long enough to know better. Sorry. Heck, playing by the rules isn't good enough, especially when companies write their own rules through their paid off politicians.28 million companies all have the politicians on the payroll? Damn I guess I missed my payment and payoff from my representatives.?so you want to be realistic, how many mortgage companies actually had people convicted of committing a crime in origination? How many energy companies were caught cooking the books? How many telecom companies? How many accounting firms were found to be complicit in the whole thing.Let me put it this way, let's say 2 restaurants in your area were caught using a faulty refrigerator and were making people sick, while the health inspector for 1 was caught taking bribes, and the other health inspector was going home and playing video games as opposed to doing inspections. Now who is at fault? Personally I say both the restaurants and the health inspectors.?Now in this scenario lets say the owners of the restaurants had multiple problems with their food handling process and their kitchen systems, and so the got a nice large fine which shut down their business. Fair enough right? I would not have a problem with that, but that is not where it ended.Now lets say a politician representing that area of your state heard about it, and needed something to get elected on since he had done basically nothing in his 2 years at the state house, and he wanted to make a name for himself. So he passes a new law that every restaurant in the state has to purchase a brand new refrigeration system, new stove tops, and hire consultants to come in every 2 months to make sure everything was clean and working properly, and to top it off instead of having quarterly inspections they now have inspections every month. So in other words every restaurant in the state is paying a huge cost due to 2 places having bad standards.Of course some restaurants cannot afford these new upgrades and fees for consultants so they are forced to shut down, the chain/corporate stores though can afford the costs and immediately upgrade, the restaurants that could not afford to operate any longer have just laid off all their staff, so now their are trained chefs/cooks, waitstaff, managers, bartenders, and even dishwashers floating all around the state, and the remaining restaurants know it, so they lower their pay a little bit knowing there is staff waiting to take the job if it opens up.?Now of course to add to it, everybody blames those small restaurants, and stop eating at those places, only going to large chain corporate restaurants, causing even more restaurants to close, and allowing those corporate restaurants to hire their pick of employees for even cheaper and causing the mid and lower level to struggle to get jobs. Now who is to blame? The corporate restaurants for doing what they promise their shareholders? All the restaurants who had additional costs and are now forced to cut pay and costs as they struggle to cover the new regulations? the politician who overreacted and got votes from it? The general public who believe the politician that all the restaurants were bad? The media who got behind the politician? Tell me who do you blame??Now you sitting there saying that nothing like that could happen? You may be right with restaurants, but did you know that in the state of Colorado 42,000 people were employed by mortgage brokers in 2006? Out of those less then 150 of those people were convicted of wrong doing in the mortgage business. Thats right less then 0.35% not even 1 half of 1 percent did anything illegal despite the witch hunt and hundreds of thousands of audited files of mortgage brokers, and it was that way across the country. yet now mortgage brokers employ less then 10% of what they did just 7 years ago, their costs of staying in compliance have climbed through the roof, going from what used to cost me a $2400 a year retainer for a lawyer and an errors and omissions policy for $500 total for my company up to what is now my company paying $7200 for a lawyer, $700 for insurance per loan officer, licensing costs of about $300 per loan officer, continuing education of about $200 a year per loan officer, in other words the total cost to keep my office and the loan officers that once worked for me employed today would be right around $28,500 a year for what once cost me $2900 a year. even still with all the new regulations, many in the public will still not do business with those small mortgage brokers, instead insisting on only using large national lenders, as they were not to blame according to the media who were gathering advertising dollars from them and the politicians who were taking their donations.?Now you want to ***** about greedy corporations, yet ignore the fact that it was less then 1/2 of 1 percent that knew anything about what was happening in the corporations that committed horrible acts. A handful of people in Enron, Worldcom, TYCO and all the other huge scandalous corporations even had an idea of what was going on, and their competition had no idea either and did nothing to compete with those who were doing wrong. Yet those people who did wrong ended up in jail or committing suicide in most cases, why? Was it because they were breaking the laws? So if the laws on the books would have been enforced by those overseeing these companies at the SEC, what would have been the result? So why do we need more laws if the SEC employees would have done their jobs??Yet blame it on all the companies who have never been shown to have done anything wrong, after all 1/2 of 1% is enough to show how evil all those mean corporations are.Originally Posted by?Galaxie Girl?That right there is what is wrong with America, the entitlement "I'm owed a living just because I exist" mentality. No one owes you a thing. Not society, not your neighbors, not employers. You must EARN everything, just like everyone else does. You need to learn how to set yourself apart from the crowd and make yourself marketable and desirable, just like everyone else does.I'd take this a whole lot more seriously if it wasn't for Big Capital running to our government for bail-outs when they've screwed up. So if they have the right to do that, why am I not entitled to do the same???So, don't expect me to take you seriously at all, not now, not forever.?The big boys don't earn what they have, they change the system so it suits them best. Well, I'm saying, let's change the system to benefit folks like me, instead of filthy rich bankers and numbskull CEO's. Fair's fair, in my book.?As long as I see this go on, I will?never, ever?change my attitude - and you can take that to the bank.?Originally Posted by?cocaseco?This is exactly right. In the Seattle area I have jobs open that i can't even get applicants for. While these are assembly positions, they aren't entry level. These pay $30K+ with full benefits and all i get is crickets......This scene is repeated everyday across the country. Make yourself marketable and you will quickly find a job.Since the job isn't entry level you probably want someone with years of experience. This is part of the skills gap myth. It's not that you can't find workers...you just can't find workers that can get off the launch pad right away. A job like yours in the Pittsburgh area would get tons of applicants if you had reasonable qualifications. Employers are not willing to train anymore so the younger generations are having trouble getting any experience or getting their foot in the door.Originally Posted by?wanderlust76?Since the job isn't entry level you probably want someone with years of experience. This is part of the skills gap myth. It's not that you can't find workers...you just can't find workers that can get off the launch pad right away. A job like yours in the Pittsburgh area would get tons of applicants if you had reasonable qualifications.?Employers are not willing to train anymore so the younger generations are having trouble getting any experience or getting their foot in the door.^This is literally killing me every day I go apply for jobs. I see so many jobs that I know I could do. I read the posting and think to myself "I could've done that in high school" and then I read the requirements and they want years of experience or a VERY specific degree or certificate. If employers were willing to spend, say, a couple weeks training new employees, I'm confident I could do anything (besides obvious things like being a doctor).?I'm the type to generally have an upbeat attitude, but I can't even begin to express how much the entry level job market sucks. I didn't grow up getting awards for every breath I took, but never before have I felt this worthless.Originally Posted by?ggumbo?^This is literally killing me every day I go apply for jobs. I see so many jobs that I know I could do. I read the posting and think to myself "I could've done that in high school" and then I read the requirements and they want years of experience or a VERY specific degree or certificate. If employers were willing to spend, say, a couple weeks training new employees, I'm confident I could do anything (besides obvious things like being a doctor).?I'm the type to generally have an upbeat attitude, but I can't even begin to express how much the entry level job market sucks. I didn't grow up getting awards for every breath I took, but never before have I felt this worthless.But it isn't true. It's all just a ruse. Jobs aren't really there. People 50 and older can't find work. People 30 and under can't find work. The point is, the jobs are a ruse because all the jobs are already taken up and will only open up for people that already have jobs. See how it works? I can't wait to see all fast food jobs being taken over by machines, nothing says riots like poor people unable to find work at the bottom.Originally Posted by?NorthStarDelight?Denied a way to *earn* a living, millions of people are forced to turn to the government just to surviveI predict that this country will move steadily to the left, eventually becoming a fully Marxist state, in which the government controls nearly the entire economy. Just take a peek at the ongoing Obamacare debacle and imagine that on an economy-wide scale.I for one think this is EXACTLY what the powers that be want to happen. Nothing that is happening right now is an accident. And when it does, and when they say you will have to be microchipped, because they will, in order to get food or shelter, that is really the end. Didn't a little book called Revelation mention an implanted chip of some sort?Originally Posted by?shiphead?But it isn't true. It's all just a ruse. Jobs aren't really there. People 50 and older can't find work. People 30 and under can't find work. The point is, the jobs are a ruse because all the jobs are already taken up and will only open up for people that already have jobs. See how it works? I can't wait to see all fast food jobs being taken over by machines, nothing says riots like poor people unable to find work at the bottom.Yeah. I just hate when people tell me to go work anywhere, take any job... and I'm just like "I'M TRYING!!!" lol.?Literally the only job I will not do is janitorial work and that's because I'm sensitive to smells. The smell of public restrooms, vomit, trash, and other gross things causes an instant gag reflex and I throw up almost immediately. It's actually pretty strange I guess... I've thrown up in public places because of it. Walking past trashcans is a big "no no" for me. Haha.Originally Posted by?wanderlust76?Since the job isn't entry level you probably want someone with years of experience. This is part of the skills gap myth. It's not that you can't find workers...you just can't find workers that can get off the launch pad right away. A job like yours in the Pittsburgh area would get tons of applicants if you had reasonable qualifications. Employers are not willing to train anymore so the younger generations are having trouble getting any experience or getting their foot in the door.Often your point is solid. But in this specific case, the barrier to entry is exceptionally low. I don't want to train because the skills are so readily available through continuing ed and government training centers. I don't want to pay you to learn what someone else took a little initiative to do on his/her own dime. Again, your point is often true for many positions, but it is a two way street and employees need to take some steps to make themselves employable in this modern world.Looking at jobs, i found one and said to myself "wow, I've done all this stuff before and I'm good at it and I'm going to apply" then... I saw a detail and said "potential problem with a small portion of job duty, maybe I shouldn't apply"?I'll apply and address potential issue if they interview me, but why do I kick myself in the butt like that?I don't know why you do that, but if this helps you at all I can share some perspective from "the other side of the desk" as a manager who does hiring: we don't expect an applicant to be able to mark off everything on a job description exactly and completely. A job description is often like a wish-list - it's everything that the perfect person for the job would be. However, the reality is that we're dealing with human beings, and no human being is going to be an exact perfect fit. I'm currently in the process of filling an open position in my department, so posted a job description at the start of last week and started getting applications in through the week. I've sorted them into "call for interview" and "don't call for interview" piles, but I'll promise you that the "call for interview" pile didn't have experience with every single item on the job description. What I'm looking for when I sort candidates is that they have what it takes to be able to do the job, not that they have done this exact job before.So, try to relax your standards with yourself, knowing that as a hiring manager my standards for you are a lot less harsh than yours are for yourself. For this job that I am currently hiring, if you have done 50% plus of the job duties listed, you'd be on top of my stack. If you've also worked in a similar-paced environment and if, in the interview, I can tell that your knowledge matches what's needed for the job (in my case, it's an accounting job, so some accounting familiarity is required), then you'd be golden. It doesn't take a 100% match with the job duties.You might be surprised what job opportunities you'd get that would allow you to learn new skills if you allowed yourself to apply to some more varied postings. Worst that can happen is that they don't call you for an interview you, or interview you and don't offer you the job...and either way, what have you lost??When I worked for the Federal government (NIH, Bethesda, MD) we all knew when a position was real and those that were advertised because of requirements. I never was involved in hiring anyone then because I was not a manager ever, but it was really broken then. Buddies got their buddies in, the money wasters were promoted, the fake job listing were maybe 50% and caused lots of wasted effort on the public.Today, the money wasting is worse and I am sure the money wasters are still promoted. I have no idea if buddies still get their buddies in, but one thing is for absolutely sure: The transformation of the hiring process to USAJobs has caused the wasted effort on the public who think these are real positions to increase vastly.?So in other words in say 1995 10 people applied to a fake listing which was wrong to those 10 applicants, now thousands and thousands apply to a fake listing. I also think the amount of fake listing has gone up to about 95% of the positions on USAJobs, where-as I am pretty sure when I worked in the government it was only about 50%.?Hard to say, I never was a manager, but the government is broken. Can any of us do anything about it? Not much probably but count on things getting worse probably.Thanks, you have confirmed the corruptness of the existence of and I will not apply to them anymore. I applied to three supposedly fantastic opportunities in the past nine month, only to not be "qualified" enough to make it to the second round, so discouraging. Life is short and this country is going down the drain and I don't want to work for any US government agency.There are some good jobs there but it is a big old numbers game.On my last search I applied to about 250 relevant jobs40% were a total black hole no status updates nothing20% I got found not qualified (ridiculous)35% I got found not among best qualified (a bit more understandable)~5% I got referred to selecting official and about 1/3 of those I at least got a phone call.Originally Posted by?FBJ?Those are the types of jobs you only apply to when you are employed since the process is so long.I ultimately wasn't hired, but I went through testing and interviewing for one position over a 2-year period. The process can be very slow.Originally Posted by?eyeb?I didn't see any "fake" jobs on usajobs....Well fake is perhaps the wrong word admittedly. But what do you call a position listing that there is no intention of hiring ANYONE that applies to it? In other words, and I worked in the government a long time, they are required to post a position on USAJobs for purposes of promotion of a internal candidate. There is NO intention of hiring outside candidates. None whatsoever.There always were and there still are three types of listings. One is a real listing, two others are not.1. There are real positions where the intent is to HIRE an external candidate. I put it at 5% of listing. Perhaps it is 4% or 8%, I don't think anyone tabulates.2. The vast majority of listings for jobs are internal candidate, a requirement to post a position but they will NEVER hire an external candidate. It is a formality. They do this with every position almost over GS-11 but depends on agency, some agency as low as GS-5 may be required to post a position listing on USAJobs to give a promotion. Other agencies only GS-13 and above.3. The second most common posting is candidates preselected. They may be a student who worked many years and they intend to hire this known candidate as a FTE. They are a student intern or other position currently. Some are just buddies of somebody working inside. By law they MUST advertise before conversion of student intern to FTE. They will NOT hire any applicants via the USAJobs portal but they MUST list position.Call them what you want but approximately 95% of positions listed (maybe 4% maybe 8% who knows) are not to hire somebody through USAJobs. Call them flowers if you want. It is a colossal waste of people's time and wrong thing to do to the public. Anyone that thinks the governments best use is to waste the publics money and time, well, let's say I don't think that and leave it at that.I will also add again that during the whole 1980's, 1990's, and perhaps well into early 2000's the majority of government job listings were actual openings, not for promotion and not for hiring a FTE who is preselected. It is only as USAJobs became the required applicant job portal that the not real opening type of listings became 90%+ (I say 95%) of government job listings.I applied for a clerical position in the SSA, which I am overqualified for with my background, working in an office environment, customer service and communications industry and I got told I wasn't qualified. Yeah, something's not quite right.?Quote:Originally Posted by?TestEngr?Well fake is perhaps the wrong word admittedly. But what do you call a position listing that there is no intention of hiring ANYONE that applies to it? In other words, and I worked in the government a long time, they are required to post a position on USAJobs for purposes of promotion of a internal candidate. There is NO intention of hiring outside candidates. None whatsoever.There always were and there still are three types of listings. One is a real listing, two others are not.1. There are real positions where the intent is to HIRE an external candidate. I put it at 5% of listing. Perhaps it is 4% or 8%, I don't think anyone tabulates.2. The vast majority of listings for jobs are internal candidate, a requirement to post a position but they will NEVER hire an external candidate. It is a formality. They do this with every position almost over GS-11 but depends on agency, some agency as low as GS-5 may be required to post a position listing on USAJobs to give a promotion. Other agencies only GS-13 and above.3. The second most common posting is candidates preselected. They may be a student who worked many years and they intend to hire this known candidate as a FTE. They are a student intern or other position currently. Some are just buddies of somebody working inside. By law they MUST advertise before conversion of student intern to FTE. They will NOT hire any applicants via the USAJobs portal but they MUST list position.Call them what you want but approximately 95% of positions listed (maybe 4% maybe 8% who knows) are not to hire somebody through USAJobs. Call them flowers if you want. It is a colossal waste of people's time and wrong thing to do to the public. Anyone that thinks the governments best use is to waste the publics money and time, well, let's say I don't think that and leave it at that.I will also add again that during the whole 1980's, 1990's, and perhaps well into early 2000's the majority of government job listings were actual openings, not for promotion and not for hiring a FTE who is preselected. It is only as USAJobs became the required applicant job portal that the not real opening type of listings became 90%+ (I say 95%) of government job listings.Lol! I hate applying for federal jobs. You will NEVER even get an interview unless you know somebody, are already a government worker, or a fresh graduate.I applied to over 300 government positions between 2008 and 2010. My stats looked were 0% call backs, 0% interviews, 95% zero contact period, and 5% automated emails either notifying me of the status of my application or rejection. USELESS.Back in the day, people got jobs there by walking in and filling out an application, and most of them were hired if they were sane and able-bodied and could type. The best perk was that there was promotion and you could move up from the mailroom clerk or clerk typist and be the head sucker in charge at a sweet G-12 or something to earn close to six figures. But no more. Competition is tighter.Even now, one way to get a job in the government is to commit a felony and be imprisoned. Upon parole, there's a program in DC called Project Empowerment that enters these parolees into the security and loveliness of a good government job, regardless of their level of qualification. Unbelievable!But of course, someone must be getting hired via that web site somewhere. Just not 98% of people who apply. It's expected. The government only hires the best of the best of the best - but is so inefficient at everything.You have a better chance at getting into Yale law school.Yes - USAJOBS is mostly bogus. I work for the Feds and have applied for other jobs - that I know I am over qualified for- and always get that not qualified or not the best qualified or get this one - not in the hiring area??? I work for a major federal agency -and all of our open positions are put on usajobs- with no intention or hiring anyone who applies - because there is a friend of a friend already being lined up for the opening. Even putting people thru fake interviews -only to mask the process in which one of our friends is already set up to land. That's what one of the posters refers to as fake jobs. I know the TSA does this - I wasted my time going through the process only to have them hire one of their own -whom had no real life experience - he read all about it from a book - verses my certifications and instructor status - and real world experience - he was already a TSA employee and someone's friend apparently. He got the job even though during the hiring process he was in the hospital battling cancer. The best candidates don't always get the job. And the usajobs resume and KSA process is redundant and ridiculous. Who evaluates it - an HR person???Originally Posted by?andywire?So many Americans are whining about how hard it is to get by here.We live in an unemployment/underemployment economy, despite the fact the media says everything is better now. Not to mention that many companies would fire you at a drop of a dime. Recovery my as.Its just a narrative the libs try to throw out to gain re-election.. Nothing is really improving,-you have untold countless college graduates underemployed making coffee to people- You have skeleton crews everywhere. Understaffed companies up the wazoo with people working to death for the same amount of money they could have been making 10-15 years ago- Thousands of people who have given up looking for work and out of the workforce (and are no longer counted in terms of the national unemployment numbers"Honestly, I think about 99% of all recruiters are a complete waste of time. I'll get calls for these contract gigs that are lower level and pay less than my FTE position. When I hear one that sounds promising, I'll return the recruiter's call, but will never hear back. I think they just cast their net very wide, hoping something will stick. In addition, many of them do not have the subject matter expertise in my field, so it is often a waste of time for either myself or the hiring manager.Before I decided to go in "a different direction" I was looking for a j.o.b. and I tried working with "Robert Half/account temps". I found that those people have no problem wasting peoples time and money.I understand the need to go in, fill out paperwork, test and interview. I did that at both the Robert half main office and the Account temps office.?What turned me off is they have no respect for applicants time. They called me a month after I was there asking me to come in to talk to a different rep about a job and they led me to believe they had several positions I might be a good fit for. I get in there and they focus on one job they are trying to fill that has NOTHING to do with my objectives. (it was a dead end job that would be a waste of my time) Had they ASKED on the phone I could have saved 112 miles of driving, an eight dollar parking charge and not wasted four hours of my day.They had the nerve to call last month with the same B.S., "Can you come in and meet with.....". As I mentioned I am no longer considering employment so it was easy to say "No" but it seems as if these people have no consideration for people.I didn't understand until just now exactly how pointless certain recruiters are. I called Kelly services here and asked if I could set up a appointment for the interview and testing, oh did I get ahead of myself there. The oh so friendly girl on the phone told me that "I just need to submit my resume online and then they will call me if they see anything I am even remotely qualified for."?I really wanted to tell her to drop the attitude. Oh well I guess I won't waste any time with them. I thought their jobs were finding us jobs??Originally Posted by?roadwarrior101?Honestly, I think about 99% of all recruiters are a complete waste of time. I'll get calls for these contract gigs that are lower level and pay less than my FTE position. When I hear one that sounds promising, I'll return the recruiter's call, but will never hear back. I think they just cast their net very wide, hoping something will stick. In addition, many of them do not have the subject matter expertise in my field, so it is often a waste of time for either myself or the hiring manager.Agree completely. Its sad that really good employees can no longer talk to the companies themselves, as you have to go thru a recruiter who doesn't know a spark plug from a headlight, but will be more than happy to "send your resume on" and never call you backOriginally Posted by?parttimetechie?Do you ever see companies not going thru recruiters in the future though? I get so many of these come on in for a visit and send me your resume only to never hear back, its ridiculouscompanies are using recruiters more and more. I see it getting worse in the future, not better.Everything is getting outsourced. Most companies these days don't do their own payroll, advertising, etc. And recruiting is no different. Some companies I work with have internal recruiting departments and still hire us for help.so in the future I see more and more companies doing this. And I think it's a shame honestly. It makes the process even more cold and less personal, and most recruiters treat people like objects rather than human beings. The profession sort of objectifies people to the point where you forget it's a person on the other end of the phone.. a person who's trusting you with their career.Anyway long rambling answer, sorry. My answer is : no, unfortunately I see it becoming more and more widespread. i'd be happy to see it go the other way but I can't imagine how it would.?More companies do temp-to-perm and stuff like that these days too and all kinds of other ploys to avoid giving you benefits for 3-6 months, and to make it less of a headache to fire you early on if they don't like youI think staffing agency's are bogus. I think the temp to hire stuff is bogus. I think they are a good enough resource if you need a job and can't find anything on your own. For the most part, they are pretty useless. They waste your time by having you come in and meet with them. Then, you never hear from them again or they will submit your resume to positions that you only minimally qualify for or are even interested in. I have even had them flat out lie about what the job duties entailed just so they could submit my resume only to meet with the hiring manager and get a totally different story about the postion. It's best to try and find work on your own if you can.?The only time a recruiter has been helpful was when they were actively working with a company to screen applicants for direct hire postions. Other than that they are useless, for the most part.I've worked on & off with agencies since 1996 and have seen them slowly declining in quality. Other day I decided to re-up with an agency(Randstad) I had worked the most successfully with up until a few years ago when I got another perm job...I go back the other day to 'update' whatever paperwork they needed me to,and it was a worse scene than the last time I went to one. There were a fresh batch of 'coordinators',who just look like they got out of business school if that,talking about their extracirricular activities like some retail workers. The agent I was with kept darting her eyes around the room,paying attention to everything else except the person in front of her,and having to ask me questions a second time because she wasn't paying attention in the first place. Meanwhile there's another guy on the phone trying to locate a no-show worker,while the rest of us responsible adults are anxiously awaiting a slot in who knows what's even 'available'...yes another day at an agencyOriginally Posted by?knt1229?I think staffing agency's are bogus. I think the temp to hire stuff is bogus. I think they are a good enough resource if you need a job and can't find anything on your own. For the most part, they are pretty useless. They waste your time by having you come in and meet with them. Then, you never hear from them again or they will submit your resume to positions that you only minimally qualify for or are even interested in. I have even had them flat out lie about what the job duties entailed just so they could submit my resume only to meet with the hiring manager and get a totally different story about the postion. It's best to try and find work on your own if you can.?The only time a recruiter has been helpful was when they were actively working with a company to screen applicants for direct hire postions. Other than that they are useless, for the most part.Staffing agencies are useless for the job seeker.They a god send for the companies who are too cheap to hire their own employees and pay for their labor expenses.Look at it this way. Why pay someone making $10/hr and tack on another $10-$20/hr to that to pay for their taxes and benefits when you can just pay a temp agencies a few more dollars and let them handle those expenses? Also, you save time and money on searching for employee and hire them in, and you can get rid of them at anytime.I've given up completely on contract recruiting agencies. Each recruiter has pretty much been as bad as the next. The recruiters are often so young they have little biz experience. I've never gotten a placement from trying them. I want a full time position and I am on my own in this hunt. Talking to recruiters just wastes my time and creates more frustration.Employees and contractors have become disposable and replaceable to company management. The employees know that the next guy is in a position of having to and will do whatever it takes to put themselves above you to secure their position. Think in the lines of "Big Brother" reality show. When you move on from a position this doesn't leave you many if any people who will take the time to promote you by taking their personal time to go out of the way to speak with, or contact back someone, that is calling and requesting a reference for you. The job industry and their practices are choking out the vast majority of employees. Temporary/recruitment agencies many times are required by their clients/companies to vest their contractors through reference checks prior to presenting them to them. These companies/managers are asking for something they themselves have made it virtually impossible to provide because of their behavior. The temporary/recruitment agencies even if they don't get a bite from the client on the contractor presented will still have the references to use as leads to other opportunities. Only one loser in this paradigm and that is the contractor. I have read so many articles these days about how companies can't get enough qualified candidates from the pool of American works they are forced to look else where (i.e. off shoring, and Visa). The reasons for this are stated above and a lot of the time have nothing to do with the skill set available but everyday it does become more reality because the American worker is being choked to death and eventually all they are going to have left is knowing how to die.I'm 32. There's been a significant decrease in what I and my peers used to call "real jobs" meaning FT jobs that paid a decent salary, had an upward trajectory and come with health care. More and more, jobs in real life after college resemble the gigs we had when were in college - the retail jobs at Gap, Target, waiting tables or bartending. Those are not "real" jobs, those are "gigs."?It took me until I was 29 to land a stable "real" job. I worked tons of gigs. Yes, I had little loyalty to those gigs - they were crappy jobs that paid crappy and no one cares about that experience when you're applying for real jobs. Few of us went to college to become the asst manager at the Chili's where we started as a busser and worked up to bartender during college. If that was what we wanted to do, we wouldn't have thrown money away at college.?I was not one to call in often but I didn't blame people for it. You give the amount of loyalty that the employer gives you, which is next to nothing at those gigs. Of course the manager will show up because the manager is the only one who's on salary, gets health insurance comped and gets profit share. If there's a snowstorm, that means there will be few customers and that means few tips, so why the hell should I waste my time in a place that I hate?I'll be honest; I'm starting to become exhausted from having to defend my generation all the time.Sure, there are a lot of lazy Millennials (you misspelled it in your original post, Pops.?), but there are also plenty of lazy people from past generations. Look at how many women work nowadays vs. "back in the day," for example. There are plenty of hardworking Millennials. I'm 26 and made over $60,000 last year and am slated to bring in $75,000 this year, and I'm just a community college graduate. I'm not saying that's a lot, but I'm also sure there are plenty of whiny Boomers here who wish they made what I make, especially at my age.Nobody wants to start at the bottom of the totem pole. If people can come here to vent about everything else, why can't they vent about lack of work? Oh wait...people are only allowed to complain if they aren't part of the "entitlement generation," right?We aren't talking about people who mooch off of the government and refuse to work. We're talking about people who took advice from their parents, their counselors, their teachers, their coaches and the country as a whole and who aren't getting the return that they were promised. Who can blame them for being disappointed? They would have been better off taking the route that I took -- dropping out of school, getting a GED, establishing my own career and then going to community college -- but many of their parents probably would have practically disowned them for that. They listened to the adults in their lives, did what they were "supposed to do," but now they are supposed to "grow up" and tackle $20k+ in student loan debt with a minimum wage gig. I'd be pissed, too. In fact, I'll bet many of those on this very forum who complain about Millennials are the same ones who pushed them to take the exact path that they took in life.Originally Posted by?tpike2?The federal govt. is to blame for the rising cost. Anybody can get a loan to go to school. In fact they want you to get a loan. I held down a full time job while I went to school to pay for it. There is no way anybody can afford to do that now.?My best friends wife drops $6,000 a year on her student loans. She is a manager at Chicfila. She regrets pretty much every decision she has ever made.?Debt slavery for all. It's the American way.Agreed. Those who think that it's still possible to work your way through college need to give it a try for one semester. Part-time community college, yes. Full-time university? No way. The jobs that are available to college kids typically only give a max of 30 hours, even to their best employees. They aren't all that thrilled to be flexible about classes and exams in the first place, and they're going to expect you to be available 24/7 other than that, so good luck getting a second job. Has anyone checked out the cost of an apartment in a college town lately? Good luck paying for that, plus tuition, books, etc. on a job that pays $200 a week. So many people have opinions about what people should do nowadays, but maybe they should give it a try. I bet it's a whole lot harder than they think it is.My goal has always been to be paid well for the skills I bring, and?also?have great benefits. I was actually there for several years, until the "affordable" healthcare act when we went to to a high deductible with HSA, but at least they contribute $1,000 toward it in January. Our problem is the "cadillac tax" that would cost my employer over 2 million in 2016 if they had kept the great co-pay plan we had before. Of course, then they delayed the penalty to 2018, but the horse is out of the barn.I’ve been out of school for about a year now, having graduated with an?Associate’s degree at the end of Fall 2012. I have not had a lot of luck in my field of study, so I’ve been considering getting a part time job. At the same time, I don’t want to turn my back on my dreams too soon…I know that the longer you are unemployed, the less desirable you’ll seem to employers. I also have no work experience at all on my résumé.Is there a time limit (for lack of a better term) after graduation in which you must be employed before it starts to look bad? Do I still have time to try &?chase?my dream?A year throws red flags with?HR?filters, and interviewers will want answers if you make it that far. I didn't know?associatedegrees had careers. I thought they got people already employed internal advancements. I think you meant to get a bachelors or better..Roxie Stones in New York, New York -Depending on your major, you might want to consider going on to obtain a bachelors degree most especially if you can do it without taking on significant debt. Aninternship?while you are working on your bachelors would help build your resume.I know what entry level means that in fact is not what they are doing. They do not want to offer OJT or even a living wage. They have jobs with skill sets that do not match or are way over the top. In most cases it would have taken you years to get these skills. You would have had to work many jobs over a number of years to get these skills. They are looking for someone 40 to 60 to work for a slave wage. Your ideal worker will have tons of skills out of savings unemployment and his 401k. He now will be open to 1099 at 10 bucks an hour. Millions of entry level jobs went to China and India now being done for 3 to 5 bucks an hour. What is left of the entry level job market is now done by unpaid interns or part time workers.Originally Posted by?20yrsinBranson?I truly believe that a lot of them mean.... "Entry level - WITH OUR COMPANY - not entry level in their job category.It usually means that you are going to work your butt off, get NO respect and earn a pittance.20yrsinBransonIf you are going to work your butt off, get reated like crap and get paid crap, then take the job and keep looking. When you get another offer, leave the first job. You at least have some money in your pocket while looking for work.And yea, "entry level" is a euphemism for very low pay.Originally Posted by?think first?Today's entry level job = internship.That, and internship = no pay.It's companies trying to rope college kids into working for free. Heck, I've even seen 'unpaid internships' offered at companies that should have absolutely no problem offering at least some kind of payment.?When I was in college in the mid 90s, all of the jobs on the board had some kind of pay. It usually wasn't very much, but they didn't expect you to work for free like they do now.I got hired as "entry level" even though I'd worked as a receptionist in a physical therapy office doing insurance verifications and collections. I am doing a/r collections for the company's sleep lab area. I got exactly 1/2 hour to be shown what area's I need to "click" in for the programs and off I was sent. 10hr to call on phones for 7 1/2 hours a day. The cheap SOB owns 13 companies-has 16 sleeplabs-and the sleep end brought in 17 million last year. He's so cheap he squeaks. I am applying anywhere else I can-hopefully something will come in soon-we've been having to pick and chose what bills to pay. These people will get theirs someday.I work a unpaid internship it is what every business is doing these days. Or they hire you on as part time or temp. Thus they can give you no benefits. It is the way of the future. You pumping out a million college grads a year. Most have no real options. I read 85% of college grads have moved back home. That means almost 9 out of every ten got no job. It was the same in 07 08 09 now you have a huge backlog of educated workers nobody wants. I saw were the Fed chairman said it will be 4 to 5 years before unemployment will be back to normal. People just do not want to see it going to be years before we see any improvement. The entry level job is almost a thing of the past.That I would sadly that is right on. I see all these nutty job ads with list of skills longer then my arm. Background check credit check hours vary part time it is just nuts. Paying 9 to 11 an hour were not talking a big payday here. I am even starting to see skill list for minimum wage jobs. I mean business say they can not find worker to hire. But they could find good workers to train business did it for 100 years. You found someone good trained for the job. Now it is know 9 types of software type 80 wam and hey the pay 8.50 an hour. And can you be up to speed in an hour ? It is hard to believe they can not find good workers these days.Originally Posted by?kattwoman2?It also makes it difficult for those in their 20's to start a career as well.It's even worse when someone like myself-who has worked since 16 at the age of 45 is told I am entry level. I am tired of being made to feel lower than whale manure. I have job skills and I am not stupid. Right now-I am the ONLY one there with a associate's degree-the majority of them has a GED-you can't help listening to the chatter(most of the 25 employees are 20-25-only 4 of us are over 35). I can not WAIT to get out of here and get a decent job again!The worst thing when I was job hunting was entry level jobs demanding 2-3 years of experience, which I had through part time office work in college and internships, only for there to be a caveat at the end of the job ad that they would only accept FULL TIME, PAID employment as valid experience. No internships. No part time work. I did a 6 month unpaid, part time internship where I essentially ran the entire outreach and logistics workload of a local government office and it was a smack in the face to be told time and time again that it "didn't count" because it was only an internship.I only got the job I got now because it's at my alma mater in a different office of the department I worked in during college.Originally Posted by?charolastra00?The worst thing when I was job hunting was entry level jobs demanding 2-3 years of experience, which I had through part time office work in college and internships, only for there to be a caveat at the end of the job ad that they would only accept FULL TIME, PAID employment as valid experience. No internships. No part time work. I did a 6 month unpaid, part time internship where I essentially ran the entire outreach and logistics workload of a local government office and it was a smack in the face to be told time and time again that it "didn't count" because it was only an internship.I only got the job I got now because it's at my alma mater in a different office of the department I worked in during college.Oh man, that would completely peeve me off. I was required to work at the college and they told us if we worked outside of the college--with the exception of summer employment--then they would screw with our financial aid. Why do people believe part-time and internships do not count as valid experience? All the employers I've talked to considered it to be valid, but I know some people who tell me that working in college does not count as experience.?Hey, if you're getting paid to remove a virus from someone's computer, why is it more legitimate to do it when a company pays you than when a college pays you? Also, what's the point in internships if they don't count as experience? That's why we have internships! You get paid by college credit instead of money. Though, I did talk to one first-tier university which told me, "No, you pay us for the privilege of allowing you to have an unpaid internship."That is rich you pay for the privilege to work for free. I mean if their going to start counting only full time paid work. Then why would anyone ever take unpaid internship? And I say this as an unpaid intern. Why even take part time work in the field you want to work? You might as well go tend bar at least then you could pay some bills. Internships are becoming the new entry level job only but their no pay. Kids are working 2 or 3 sometimes more internships over a number of years. Business has eliminated the entry level jobs. By technology or sent them to India or China use interns part time or temps. The jobs are gone one way or the other. And their not coming back it is the way of the future. Business understands now good times or bad their will always be interns. Million college grad a year that is alot of free labor.Originally Posted by?collegeguy35?That is rich you pay for the privilege to work for free. I mean if their going to start counting only full time paid work. Then why would anyone ever take unpaid internship? And I say this as an unpaid intern. Why even take part time work in the field you want to work? You might as well go tend bar at least then you could pay some bills. Internships are becoming the new entry level job only but their no pay. Kids are working 2 or 3 sometimes more internships over a number of years. Business has eliminated the entry level jobs. By technology or sent them to India or China use interns part time or temps. The jobs are gone one way or the other. And their not coming back it is the way of the future. Business understands now good times or bad their will always be interns. Million college grad a year that is alot of free labor.What happened in my situation was my undergrad told me they would fund my internship. Then, when I was accepted they backed out, but they said to me, "Maybe you should as your graduate school if they will fund your internship." I did and they said, "No. Actually, you are required to pay US $2,000 so we will count your internship as a college credit." Unfortunately, I never did the internship b/c I could not find a full-time job to cover for living expenses. Also, I ended up going to a state university instead of the first-tier school for the same reason.If too many college graduates end up being "overqualified" I think people will stop going to college. One of my younger cousins keeps asking me why she should go to college if she will end up being overqualified. For a while, my brother was telling me that my degree was a waste of money b/c I was out of work while he worked in fast food. I eventually found a decent part-time job and now he's going to community college, but I'm starting to wonder if the even younger generation is going to see college as a scam or worthless.That's not bad at all lol, I've seen ads for entry level positions where the employers wanted 10+ years of experience.?Personally, I think legislation should be passed that states that employers can be sued or barred from requiring experience, because it's discriminatory.I believe employers know very well what entry-level means. I've done some research of median salaries for my particular set of duties and I keep coming up with figures that are between $8k and $10k higher than what I'm currently making. If it weren't for a couple pay increases that I sort of helped pushed through for myself, I'd probably be making close to $25k less than the median salary for someone with my experience and education.That's why I don't buy the argument that you get paid according to what the company values you at. That's not necessarily true. A company values you at the price ceiliing they've set for the position and/or a person with your set of skills, experience, and education. In other words, they may be willing to pay you up to $50k before they are no longer willing to budge. That doesn't mean they won't low ball you with a $40k offer. It's up to you to force the extra money out of them by using some leverage (another job offer, expressing your interest in quitting, etc.) When they show you the door, that's when you figure out what they truly valued you at.The worth of a college degree is falling in value and not just art history social work ect. But MBAs Law engineering IT ect. Entry level jobs are slowing going bye bye in those fields as well. Getting 25k in debt for a degree is mostly likely a bad idea. Going to grad school is an even worse idea. Because now your adding 25 or 30k more in debt. A 50k tab might get you a 60k a year job. But here is the thing how long is it going to last? One year five years who knows nothing is stable. And what if you never land a good entry level job to start with. College may not be worth it to alot of kids in the future.Originally Posted by?collegeguy35?The worth of a college degree is falling in value and not just art history social work ect. But MBAs Law engineering IT ect. Entry level jobs are slowing going bye bye in those fields as well. Getting 25k in debt for a degree is mostly likely a bad idea. Going to grad school is an even worse idea. Because now your adding 25 or 30k more in debt. A 50k tab might get you a 60k a year job. But here is the thing how long is it going to last? One year five years who knows nothing is stable. And what if you never land a good entry level job to start with. College may not be worth it to alot of kids in the future.My two oldest are in college now. They've both decided to leave school after this semester and enter the military-both are girls. They feel that spinning their wheels in academia isn't worth what it was and they'd rather get right into learning the choices of careers-one is going for nursing-the other physical therapist. It maybe the only thing they'll be able to get-they've not found any part time jobs since this spring. We are behind them 100%. It's true why spend yourself into debt if the job market is so bad and you won't make enough money to pay it back and live too.My degree-even though I busted tail to do it as an adult raising three kids-I feel is now worthless. I still don't get how I am considered entry level at a place where the others have only earned GED's.Originally Posted by?Crackpot?I recall our ego-inflated HR lady put a posting for an accounts receivable position and required:Associates - Bachelors Degree3-5 years job related experienceAble to speak Spanishfor a 8.50 hr job calling people to pay their bills, hilarious.$8.50 an hour is what I made on unemployment 2 years ago-lolThe hiring process is the biggest farce of BS, shallowness, and psychological junk science I've ever seen. I remember graduating and being shocked at the stupidity of it all. After having to endure it from company after company I finally got a great job with a company that did things right. I am getting awards, high raises, and great review and those hopeless dip-stick companies are still whining or using temp agencies.Hiring at many companies has very little to do with merit and more to do with HR's nonsense, and shallow mangers' preferences which is why I have no sympathy at all for companies with poor employees.I relate todays job searchers to peasants standing outside of the city walls banging on the closed gates. There is most definitely a negative view placed upon the unemployed. Employers only want to hire those already employed. They would rather steal talent from each other than give someone a shot who has been out of work for 3 months. Its insane out there.The entitlement mentality is what's eroding a lot of the gains that were made during the 20th Century, which was really the Golden Age for America in terms of the average person's prosperity. At the top, we have executives and large corporations who have taken more for themselves and in a lot of cases paid executives obscene salaries for what in many cases is mediocre performance. Simultaneously, we have an underclass that is content to live off the dole indefinitely. We've even encouraged some mid-lifers to do this by extending unemployment benefits indefinitely. I'm all for welfare, but it has to be welfare that incentivizes good behavior instead of rewarding irresponsibility and sloth. I'd gladly pay for someone to go to technical or trade school and to live in a modest dorm or apartment for a year or two, provided they succeed in school and get work within 6 months of graduation. But paying for some ghetto/trailer park mother to pump out five kids with five different fathers, or paying for some hipster to sit around and drink PBR while collecting taxpayer money is unacceptable, as is having companies using my 401K money to pay 10-million golden parachutes for incompetent executives. We need greater accountability all around. It's accountability that's missing from society, and that's why the American dream isn't as achievable as it used to be.I think the American dream is still there a little bit, but it will be VERY hard to accomplish this due to the MASSIVE student loan debt that faces our kids. They are just starting out life and ALL that I know in my kid's class will have over $100K debt. I don't know how they figure the average debt to be less. Not in Pennsylvania. I wish the debt would be $40K, but that isn't doable at all. Maybe I need to be on welfare and I could get a better rate? Don't know.Originally Posted by?Emigrations?If anything, a reduction of wages and an increase in profits usually just ends up going to shareholders and executives.This is the crux of the matter. American business is more so these days about growing the money rather than growing the business. There are myriad things a government can do to place the focus on job growth, but many of those things work against "growing the money" and so they're no longer on the menu, due (again) to the fundamental policy reversals traceable to changes in our nation 35-40 years ago.?Back then, I remember how much focus there was in the executive suites on recognizing the "stakeholders" of a business - the shareholders were just one of four equal parties. CEO after CEO would outline for me just how they were building their business to serve investors, employees, customers and society. The acknowledgement of having "skin in the game" other than money is gone now. All that matters is the money - not people, not commitments, not relationships, not quality, not the product or service being offered.Hi Everyone,I'm not new to online forums but this is my first post here.I graduated from college in June 2011 with a degree in biological sciences and have since been trying -unsuccessfully- to find a job.For about the past eight months now I've applied for dozens upon dozens of jobs and haven't managed to get even a single interview or even a phone call about a potential job. I've been applying mostly for entry level jobs in my field (such as lab assistant, etc.) and for jobs like administrative assistant or clerk and whatnot but no luck. I've even started applying for other kinds of jobs at local businesses and fast food joints but haven't had any luck there either.It's really becoming frustrating and even a little heartbreaking because I spent all that time and effort in college and now here I am, broke and unemployed with a mountain of debt. Things have become so bad I'm risking falling behind on payments and can barely make ends meet. The thing is, I'm not sure where I'm going wrong. I don't have a lot of experience to put on my resume but I have a little (internship, a little volunteering, etc.) in addition to my education. I'm just not sure what to say when I get rejection emails from places like Chipotle or Target for jobs like burrito maker and restocker.I've been told that places like restaurants and stores don't like to hire someone with a degree because they think someone without one would be more inclined to stay employed with them longer and that they have to pay them less, or something to that effect. But on the other hand, a major problem for me getting a job in my field is that I don't have any actual work experience being in a lab. Most of the time I don't meet all of the requirements for the jobs I apply for but sometimes I do and still haven't been getting anything.Can anyone please help shed some light on my dilemma? Any advice or tips would be welcome. I've been searching around on the internet and asking friends who have jobs but I'm kind of looking for the opinion of someone outside my normal network of friends/family. Thanks for reading.First of all, you have to know that it's just not you that is dealing with this. There's a lot of people out there in the same dire situation you're in right now, can't find a job to support themselves or worse their families (if they have kids).?Nowadays, you submit your resume to an ad online and you won't get called back period, let alone an interview. So you can imagine how easy it is to become frustrated, depressed and lose hope.You know, I do have one question. Don't the colleges offer employment/career counseling with help to find a job at graduation? This is such a common story these days - graduates with no jobs and a mountain of debt. Back in the day, corporation recruiters were on campus recruiting people.?Job market, today, of course is different. But anyone in school the past three years had to know how hard it would be upon graduation. It would seem to me the colleges should have been very proactive on behalf of their students - for years now - rather than throwing y'all to the wolves. It's a whole new world out there - and has been for a while now.You should have told them you are an illegal from Honduras and you will work under the table. You would have had that job before they even met you.?How willing are you to sacrifice every moral fiber of your soul?Other than that, you're in the same boat with a lot of other folks today. The ship is sinking, and the sun is setting on this empire. Expect more of the same, as the government attempts to legislate prosperity at every turn, while further indenturing you to debt you have no hope of ever overcoming. Thank your politicians?High school people aren't getting hired either, so don't assume it's because of your degree. The whole job process for fast food joints and the like has changed for the worse.Ah, geez... I feel for you.I think biologists, chemists, and chemical/material engineers are some of the worst treated folks in the realm of the hard sciences... not that life is a bowl of cherries for everyone else. Andywire summed it up well when he talked about the sun setting on this empire. We have lots of talk, attempts to magically create or print wealth, and not a lot of useful action.I would check into your college's career services center - they usually are willing to help relatively recent graduates. Heck, the college might even have some relavent position you can fill - check out their website and look around.?Use any connections you have, even if all they can do is pass your resume along or give you good ideas regarding places to look for a job.Folks with a college degree will rarely be hired for minimum wage jobs. There are some exceptions, such as locations without other sources of labor or bookstores and Starbucks, from what I hear, but that's about it... oh, and maybe more "tech" jobs like Best Buy's "Geek Squad" or Apple stores.I wish I could offer more ideas. It is brutal out there, and many people are suffering.Good luck.Originally Posted by?Ariadne22?You know, I do have one question. Don't the colleges offer employment/career counseling with help to find a job at graduation? This is such a common story these days - graduates with no jobs and a mountain of debt. Back in the day, corporation recruiters were on campus recruiting people.?Job market, today, of course is different. But anyone in school the past three years had to know how hard it would be upon graduation. It would seem to me the colleges should have been very proactive on behalf of their students - for years now - rather than throwing y'all to the wolves. It's a whole new world out there - and has been for a while now.Contrary to belief, schools feel as though they have no obligation to help you out whatsoever. I went to my school for some guidance and help, they weren't able to help me outside of revising my resume here and there, but nowadays it takes more than a piece of paper to get you a job.One person even told me something to the effect of, "Oh well we don't give handouts to college students."??I never asked for a handout, but I think if I invested all my time, energy, and money into this school, then I think you all should do more for your alumni than just revising resumes.Then these schools have the nerve to ask the alumni for money...pssh!It is odd that you haven't received any interest or interviews from all of your applications. If I were you I would get my resume and cover letter looked at ASAP because that may be where your problem lies. If there are flaws in either of those documents, employers aren't going to call you for an interview. Your resume and cover letter are your best initial selling points.Originally Posted by?CoolSocks?It is odd that you haven't received any interest or interviews from all of your applications. If I were you I would get my resume and cover letter looked at ASAP because that may be where your problem lies. If there are flaws in either of those documents, employers aren't going to call you for an interview. Your resume and cover letter are your best initial selling points.I agree and I don't. The cover letter matters, but unless you are applying directly to an employer via an email address, job boards are notorious for sending mostly illegible things from candidates. So make sure your pertinent info is also in the resume so if the cover letter is eaten in the submission process all of your great achievements aren't eaten with it.Originally Posted by?Rambler123?Ah, geez... I feel for you.I think biologists, chemists, and chemical/material engineers are some of the worst treated folks in the realm of the hard sciences... not that life is a bowl of cherries for everyone else. Andywire summed it up well when he talked about the sun setting on this empire. We have lots of talk, attempts to magically create or print wealth, and not a lot of useful action.I would check into your college's career services center - they usually are willing to help relatively recent graduates. Heck, the college might even have some relavent position you can fill - check out their website and look around.?Use any connections you have, even if all they can do is pass your resume along or give you good ideas regarding places to look for a job.Folks with a college degree will rarely be hired for minimum wage jobs. There are some exceptions, such as locations without other sources of labor or bookstores and Starbucks, from what I hear, but that's about it... oh, and maybe more "tech" jobs like Best Buy's "Geek Squad" or Apple stores.I wish I could offer more ideas. It is brutal out there, and many people are suffering.Good luck.Geek Squad went out of businessSo sorry to hear of your troubles---I hate to say this, but have you considered "dumbing down" your resume? Many people have been doing so, just to get a min wage job. After all the hard work you put into a degree, now you might have to "hide' it, but you do what you have to. You NEED money.I worry about my teenagers, lets hope the future turns around, but take heart! Usually these economic downturns go in cycles. Every recession is the "worst in history". Well, they cycle through?Good luck!Originally Posted by?Ariadne22?You know, I do have one question. Don't the colleges offer employment/career counseling with help to find a job at graduation? This is such a common story these days - graduates with no jobs and a mountain of debt. Back in the day, corporation recruiters were on campus recruiting people.?Job market, today, of course is different. But anyone in school the past three years had to know how hard it would be upon graduation. It would seem to me the colleges should have been very proactive on behalf of their students - for years now - rather than throwing y'all to the wolves. It's a whole new world out there - and has been for a while now.What's hilarious is that my school verbatim told the students back in 2007 that their career center would help with job placement after graduation. After the recession happened that changed to "well, we don't help with placement, but you can check our job board!"?I am in the SAME boat as you op. unemployed for a year now. Graduated last December. I have four years of customer service work on my belt. It looks like I finally found a job but no papers have been signed yet so I could still be dropped.Originally Posted by?TVandSportsGuy?I thought the school career center had relationships with local employers?Obviously not because I tried getting my school to help me, and outside of helping me with some resume tips(which haven't helped much), they aren't able to do a darn thing. It's ridiculous because I went to a so called reputable school, but...*shrugs*. If schools helped more, I bet you there wouldn't be many unemployed graduates with debt they can't pay for. I have all this student loan debt and I'm not getting anywhere with a job. It's not very encouraging. I regret even going to college now.I would suggest any kid nowadays, once you turn 16, GET YOURSELF A JOB as soon as possible and keep that job while you go to college. Keep it after college until you find a full time job with a salary and benefits. I wish I would have done that instead of listening to my parents.Originally Posted by?B.B.C.420?I feel like making a phone call and asking those questions. Obviously they haven't done that great of job placing students with jobs. It's not like I'm asking for a corporate job, but can't even get me a minimum wage job doing SOMETHING.Then the school wants you to donate money for alumni relations...screw that.All about that MONEY, sickening. I wonder do they take credit if you find a job on your own?Originally Posted by?InsaneTraveler?My school has job fairs, yes. Most of the positions available though are 100% commission sales jobs. Not my, or most graduates, cup of tea.This just bothered me. SO your school actually posted SALES jobs???? That is ridiculous.?Biggest scam going on in America..............collegeOriginally Posted by?B.B.C.420?I would suggest any kid nowadays, once you turn 16, GET YOURSELF A JOB as soon as possible and keep that job while you go to college. Keep it after college until you find a full time job with a salary and benefits. I wish I would have done that instead of listening to my parents.If only it were that simple. These days, the vast majority of young people graduating college are not receiving offers for salaried positions fresh out of school. And the run-of-the-mill summer internships or part-time six month internships won't make you any more attractive to most employers nowadays. I had the standard six month internship prior to graduation and it didn't make my job hunt any easier. What I did for a year was work for free part-time by creating my own web design internship. I posted an ad on craigslist for free web design work and was inundated with responses. After a while, I got sick of working long hours for free for rich ungrateful business owners who would bother me constantly and I stopped doing it because no one likes to work for free. But it filled a space on my resume. Once you have a solid year of work experience, a small local start-up company might take the risk of hiring your for $8-10 an hour. If you increase revenue for the business, they?might?start paying you a real wage. A small start-up company hired me a month ago doing web design but I quit because I only know how to code by hand using HTML and Dreamweaver and this company insisted on using Wordpress and they gave me little time to learn how to use it. This is another problem with today's job market. Employers want someone with the most super specific skills. Once you prove you can make money for a small business, it makes you look more attractive to employers who will pay you a real wage for your work. In this economy, you have to crawl before you walk as a recent college grad. It does suck that people we went to college with who graduated in 2005 or 2006 never had this problem. But this is our reality. We have no choice but to face it.?Today, I am still unemployed more than two years after gradation. I just came back from an interview with an employer who made a big deal about this gap in my resume. I have another interview the day after tomorrow. I went for a year without having a single interview and I applied for jobs everyday. I have faith that my life will be much better a year from now. Keep the faith OP. You are not alone.?When I apply for menial jobs the demand for a resume and multiple interviews just doesn't seem logical to me. I find that overboard especially for a kid who is 16. I'm a really logical person when it comes to stuff like this. Why require an application then? Why the personality test? To weed people out? You can weed people out by making applications only in person. That will eliminate some of the UE hoggers. I could understand if these were experienced career jobs or government jobs. When you look at the past, and now, then you see people getting the jobs just for knowing somebody or a girl having a nice rack, it makes you pissed. Out here the immigrants don't have resumes, they want the job and you will give it to them or face unknown consequences, LOL.?Maybe abandoning society, going off the grid and making your own "job", stop caring what the masses think is the answer for the permanently NEW unemployed "workforce".Originally Posted by?goldenchild08?If only it were that simple. These days, the vast majority of young people graduating college are not receiving offers for salaried positions fresh out of school. And the run-of-the-mill summer internships or part-time six month internships won't make you any more attractive to most employers nowadays. I had the standard six month internship prior to graduation and it didn't make my job hunt any easier. What I did for a year was work for free part-time by creating my own web design internship. I posted an ad on craigslist for free web design work and was inundated with responses. After a while, I got sick of working long hours for free for rich ungrateful business owners who would bother me constantly and I stopped doing it because no one likes to work for free. But it filled a space on my resume. Once you have a solid year of work experience, a small local start-up company might take the risk of hiring your for $8-10 an hour. If you increase revenue for the business, they?might?start paying you a real wage. A small start-up company hired me a month ago doing web design but I quit because I only know how to code by hand using HTML and Dreamweaver and this company insisted on using Wordpress and they gave me little time to learn how to use it. This is another problem with today's job market. Employers want someone with the most super specific skills. Once you prove you can make money for a small business, it makes you look more attractive to employers who will pay you a real wage for your work. In this economy, you have to crawl before you walk as a recent college grad. It does suck that people we went to college with who graduated in 2005 or 2006 never had this problem. But this is our reality. We have no choice but to face it.?Today, I am still unemployed more than two years after gradation. I just came back from an interview with an employer who made a big deal about this gap in my resume. I have another interview the day after tomorrow. I went for a year without having a single interview and I applied for jobs everyday. I have faith that my life will be much better a year from now. Keep the faith OP. You are not alone.?I was thinking the exact same thing as the quoted poster but on second thought even that wouldn't work out. The American ideal is to graduate HS, turn eighteen and then go to work. Most people want to move out but in recent years that's become even harder to do! Due to the high cost of living the ideal is still impractical. I thought to myself you'd have to be saving since at least middle school to afford a house and a luxurious lifestyle in the cities.If you were frugal, you could keep a bit of the greens, otherwise you're still stuck because after you graduate your future employers will be puzzled those minimum wage jobs are all you did. Of course, there's exceptions, like management and self-employment (business), but they're rare and far between.?It just has been getting worse month after month. A few years ago, you could get a job paying $10 an hour that didn't require any skill or really any hard labor in a warehouse or stocking in a department store. There was virtually no competition for these jobs and you could walk in and get hired the same day. That's because people scoffed at $8-10 an hour only a few years ago. Ironically, $10 an hour was a lot more back then as well. In many areas of the country, you could afford a nice used car and have your own apartment by yourself in a quiet safe neighborhood for that wage if you worked full-time. Back in 2003, I was making $9 an hour at my part-time job at a warehouse while I went to college classes during the day. Back then, ten dollars filled up my tank to the brim and my car only took premium unleaded fuel! Today, ten dollars won't fill up a quarter of my tank on the same car. Today, countless skilled labor jobs that require a degree now pay no more than $10 an hour. Also, you are expected to have your own reliable transportation and often these jobs include no benefits. There is no way a young college grad, who probably has student loans, can afford to live unless he or she is still reliant on their parents. Not to mention you will be competing with at least seven other people who applied for that same $10 an hour job. That is if your lucky enough to make it to the interview rounds because most job ad's get dozens to hundreds of email resume responses. If the job isn't $10 an hour, it is only temporary or a commission only sales job most of the time. America is going down the toilet.College Degree = $10-Hour Job - ForbesKeep applying and applying as frustrating it is, it is a numbers game for many of us looking for work. Don't rely just on Internet job posts, way too narrow of a focus.?Pound the pavement if you haven't, go to places in person (small businesses) and drop off a resume or business card with your contact info (Name, phone and email address). For most jobs that don't require a college degree, tailor resume to leave out the college degree and put any job experience you had on the resume. I would have one resume for entry level positions and one for just any job.?If you live in a larger town, go to job networking events at local churches, that might help you some. You at least will make a few contacts and you never know. Go to the temp agencies and sign up. Keep calling them back to see if there are openings.If you are introverted person, you will have to be more extroverted in order to be able to "sell yourself" for a job. Take any job for now and keep applying.Originally Posted by?B.B.C.420?I know it's not that easy, but it is?easier?for a 16 year old to apply for low wage minimum wage jobs than it is for an adult with an education and job experience to do so. Nowadays young people can't afford to just wait until after high school or college for a job. You can wait around for a salaried job all you want to, but you better take whatever you can when you're unemployed and just keep applying while they have that crappy minimum wage job. I would have done it and it would have made my transition much smoother than now.I'm sorry to hear the interviewer made a big deal about your employment gap. I understand that. I know plenty of employers who like me until they get to the employment part and then they start to frown.??I know by then in the interview, it's the nail in the coffin.?This is true. Most fast food jobs where I live are dominated by either teenagers or illegal immigrants who can barely speak English. Us recent college grads have been royally screwed. We are told to flip burgers by our elders and luckier peers once we find out that is extremely difficult to find work in our college educated work fields, yet most fast food and retail outlets outright refuse to hire college graduates. Many college grads simply have no choice but to wait until an opportunity in their field comes around. And when that opportunity finally comes around, you have already been unemployed for over a year and you are seen as damaged goods by rich employers who don't understand your plight.Teenagers still have a good 50% unemployment was it? Thinking at it logically I see no one to blame for that except employers and how they have reconstructed the hiring process. I learned how to beat those unicru personality tests from an EX-walmart employee.I graduated several years ago--1978!College placement offices were about the same as now, if it makes anyone feel any better. Essentially, they were useless. They would review your resume, tweak on it a little, then send you on a few bogus interviews. yes, even back then, they did "pretend" interviews for who-knows-what-reason? I guess so the employers and university could say they had a reciprocal relationship. They could give out statistics like "have relationships with leading businesses in the area" or there's a lot of interest in our graduates, etc. The potential employers could then say they support their state's educational system, yadda, yadda............I still can't figure it outThen, they send you to their little interview workshops, where they tell you stuff like don't pick your nose during an interview! Like we're all a bunch of social morons! Hey, I got through life, you new grads out there will, too! YOu have to know somebody, join clubs, church, volunteer...I know---HTH do you do all that goody stuff when you can't afford gas or rent? answer, stay with your parents, then inherit the house when they die----that's our plan for our kids!Even volunteer work is choosy of who is to "be enslaved" as some people put it. The process is the same as looking for a paid job. They don't call people back either. People know you are desperate for experience, or something to put down on applications. That's why I shy away from stuff like that. I make the rules when I'm working for free and voluntarily. You come before me, not the other way around.Yes, I've spoken to people who tell me they gave up looking for volunteer work and internships and are just focusing on paid work because you have to go through the same exact hoops. In my opinion business owners and organizations are long overdue for a meeting about how they are treating applicants. Not new ways to weed out applicants, but ways to start ACCEPTING applicants.One of my friend's has two Masters degrees from an Ivy League?college?but he has been unemployed for more than 5 years. Pretty much the same story, thousands of resumes sent out, handful of interviews, and no job offers.He applied to a?fast food?restaurant and did not tell them about his college degrees. The manager said that he was over qualified and apparently knew about his?education. The company uses the TALEO system and apparently the company can look up information NOT provided. It really sucks to not be able to dumb down your resume. Really beginning to hate the computerized hiring processI think companies are becoming overly picky, because they can be. In the past, being smart and able to demonstrate transferrable skills was often enough. Nowadays, they want you to have done all of the exact tasks in the past, but not for too long, as you'll be too expensive for them. Here are reasons I see it happening1. Unemployment. Yes, the published rate is now at 4.9%. However, the real unemployment rate (including those who gave up looking) is still in the double digits2. Wage Stagnation. As the economy hasn't grown rapidly (e.g., people are now saving more than spending), there isn't the same degree of wage pressure.3. Globalization. Why hire someone at a high cost when there is someone else who can do the job at 1/4 the price in India?4. Automation. This is making many jobs obsolete and others don't require as many people. Fewer jobs + more applicants.5. Overqualification. Previously, a graduate degree made you stand out. With the poor economy, more people went back to school and now this credential is a dime a dozen.6. Baby boomers. The poor economy/market and previously bad spending habits of these folks have made them have to work longer. This puts a lid on the career advancement of Gen X, Gen Y and Millenials.I wouldn't mind the competitiveness (over good paying high positions) but people are becoming competitive over lousy-average paying jobs. You're just feeding into the greedy corporate goons hands. This is exactly what they want. Hundreds of people fighting over chicken feed. While they cash out their big checks sitting on their bums. I'm seeing backstabbing and political games play over jobs that pay 30k a year now for God sakesPeople need to quit being sheep and open their eyes and see what's REALLY going on. Put in the effort to get the system changed and hold these corrupt big wigs accountable instead of putting in effort for backstabbing each other for lower paying jobs or underemploymentOriginally Posted by?DorianRo?I wouldn't mind the competitiveness (over good paying high positions) but people are becoming competitive over lousy-average paying jobs. You're just feeding into the greedy corporate goons hands. This is exactly what they want. Hundreds of people fighting over chicken feed. While they cash out their big checks sitting on their bums. I'm seeing backstabbing and political games play over jobs that pay 30k a year now for GodExactly, I am all in favor of competition for advancements and opportunities. But what pisses me off is the fact we're competing for jobs that aren't even worthy and/or don't pay well. Once I got my degree I left my manufacturing job which was a lot of work but paid very well in order to pursue my field of study. Once I got the technical support job for experience even though I was paid 50% less, I realized that it will be years before I find something decent in my field which I can't afford at my salary. I became more depressed when my co-workers had the same job and pay but had more education.There maybe more jobs but they pay a whole lot less, not really a rebounding economy. 10-12 per hr to be in admin, you must have a bachelors degree, no real benefits or if they are there, they will cost more than any 12.00 per hr employee can afford, sorry that is not getting better.What more could a young person want than having an apartment, having a job, starting a family and living a normal adult life?I have applied to over 20 jobs within the past month. Only 3 responded with "Positions filled. Sorry."2 scheduled interviews, only to get a rejection response. I feel like it's a waste of time, money, resources, trying to go to interviews with no guarantee of finding a job. I've been doing this for 2 years and couldn't find that good job that pays. At this point, it's driving me nuts and I'm this close to throwing in the towel.Am I the only one who sees this as one big game of lottery?Honestly it does seem like a game. One thing this recession has taught me is that people are a lot greedier than I thought before. A lot of businesses don't care about their workers anymore. A few years ago all I used to see was 3-5 years of experience at least required (for entry-level positions). People who were entering the job market had very little chance of finding a job. Some who did get to work for companies such as these (3-5 years experience at least for entry positions) had to do free internships and many were doing them for years (basically unpaid labor) without being offered a job or some were let go (and more interns hired in their place).?Now I feel the less experience you have, the better. I feel that many employers don't want to boost wages so they are finding people who are desperate for work that way they can pay them anything.?Some people do what they're suppose to do-go to school, get degree, work, and then come to find that their job is being outsourced/insourced/replaced by technology, etc. And the funny thing about it is that so many fields are paying workers what the pay was 10+ years ago. Forget about keeping up with inflation. People are trying so hard to get a job that doesn't pay well and it's sad.?I don't know your situation but have found that many tend to get another degree (change fields) or add to their existing degree in order to make themselves more competitive.Few factors:1) Employers will post bogus listings as part of a government requirement which allows them to bring certain workers into the country to fill those jobs (work visas). This is often the case when a company requires that a person have more years experience with a software than said software has had years in existence.2) People who put together the listings often have no business doing so; this includes HR reps who either greenstamp crazy things that hiring managers want or assume that certain things are necessary for the job.3) The imaginary "skills gap" - basically employers want everything but they don't want to have to train anybody themselves, pay for continuing education, etc.It's not just a recession mind-set, employers have been growing increasingly clueless over the years. That said, at least some employers will talk to you if you meet some of the basic requirements... or if you bypass the black hole that is HR by contacting the hiring manager directly.?I have read countless threads on this site placing 'Fit' and 'Soft Skills' on a pedestal during the employment interview, some even stating that they are of the same importance as actually being able to do the job properly.It is as if the corporate structure is some kind of inviolable religion where everyone must always be in agreement on all things.?In addition, every potential employee, from all levels of management, plus the technical, labor, and clerical ranks, must be able to prove their ability to 'think on their feet' and call up trivia pulled from their entire work history at the whim of any one of a dozen 'interviewers' that an applicant may have the misfortune of meeting while trying to achieve gainful employment.It doesn't seem to matter what the wages, from minimum on up, every employee must be an effective presenter 'just in case', even if the position will never use those skills. Heaven help them if the haven't had a stint as a securities broker or used car salesman, because snake oil is the same as gold in these interviews.?Except...Foreign workers. Suddenly, corporate culture goes out the window, the need to effectively present anywhere and to anyone is tossed by the wayside, concerns about gaps in employment or reasons for applying with your company or even requiring that they be easily understood by your co-workers or customers evaporates.Does anyone believe the multitude of H-1B Visa techs, engineers, and programmers go through any of the hoops that are expected from their American born competitors? Companies don't care about anything but getting the work done when they can buy the labor at a discount on the world market.How about foreign tech support and customer service lines for American customers? Does anyone believe that foreign level one or level two tech support and customer services representatives could get a job in an American company based in the USA? The same position here requires clear, concise diction, and at least a familiarity with the product or technologies being discussed.How can people continue to defend the need for extremely high levels of soft skills that may only be needed on an occasional basis (and would then be within the employee's field of expertise) from Americans, when those same skills can be considered unnecessary if you get foreign employees at a large enough discount?A lot of job applications now ask interview questions and ask for references before you even talk to the employer. Do you tend to skip these types of job applications?If I see too many questions I abandon ship. Why spend an hour filling out one application that may be passed over when I could use that time to apply to 10 other jobs?Originally Posted by?jwiley?Unfortunately you are the one looking for the opportunity, they more than likely have hundreds if not thousands of other people looking for opportunities, as someone else posted if you cannot take the time to answer the questions than you just weeded yourself out of the running for the job. I am sure they have plenty of people who will answer the questions and are willing to put up with the hoops for a job they want.Even if I am the one looking for the opportunity, it is only one opportunity out of thousands. I view job hunting as a numbers game and I'd rather fill out a bunch of short applications instead of putting my eggs into one basket with one long application.Trip McNealy also makes a good point. You shouldn't have to give references on the initial application. I used to give them out until solicitors started calling my references.??It's too much of a risk to give them out before you even know who's on the other end.Decades ago, if you had a college degree, any college degree, you were as rare as gold and companies competed for you with good wages, benefits packages, and even pension plans. This is still true, only if you're in a very niche field and your skills are extremely rare. But for the average college grad, you can be fired in a heartbeat and replaced the next day like a minimum wage Walmart clerk.The powers-that-be were smart by pushing everyone to go to college. Now degrees aren't worth as much and jobs don't have to pay nearly as much as they used to.In a globalized economy, everyone makes Bangladesh wages. Except for the top 0.01% who own the businesses and stocks, who make out like bandits from all the cheap labor. Now included in the cheap labor pool: people with college degrees in engineering, accounting, IT, etc.The only jobs safe from globalization are jobs where the work must be done on site, like medical jobs, plumbing, electricians, etc. And even a lot of on-site work can be "outsourced" to third world countries via illegal immigration.Become a doctor. That's where all the money is. "Pay up or die" is excellent pricing power. Plus you can get paid to push big pharma's dangerous (and often addictive) drugs onto the public. You're essentially a drug dealer and it's totally legal.Originally Posted by?s1alker?Of course it is. Decades ago, if you had a college degree, any college degree, you were as rare as gold and companies competed for you with good wages, benefits packages, and even pension plans. This is still true, only if you're in a very niche field and your skills are extremely rare. But for the average college grad, you can be fired in a heartbeat and replaced the next day like a minimum wage Walmart clerk.The powers-that-be were smart by pushing everyone to go to college. Now degrees aren't worth as much and jobs don't have to pay nearly as much as they used to.Correct. College is the new high school.Recruiters suck. Period. I had one lie about a start date and was clearly misinformed about certain aspects of the job. I showed up to the interview 40 minutes early because I was told the interview was at 11am and the hiring manger had set the interview for 11:30am. I was there at 10:45am. No big deal since I was early, but, seriously at least get the interview time right. Then, the start date was all wrong. I still don't know where I'm supposed to go on my first day or what time I'm supposed to be there. This whole experience has been awful. Honestly, had I not gotten photographed for a badge at the company I'm supposed to work for I would be seriously doubting if I had actually been hired.?Yea, recruiters suck. They are super unprofessional and they lie, lie, lie.Originally Posted by?knt1229?Yea, recruiters suck. They are super unprofessional and they lie, lie, lie.I hate to agree but I do. Of the 100 or so I have talked to about 10% were straight shooters the rest lie more than timeshare sales people. I have actually been asked to be a recruiter a couple of time in the last 12 months and I just can't lie that much. I never lie to customers. I don't advertise the cons but if you ask me straight up I will tell you.I love the recruiters that try to bait you with a job then try to sign you up as one of their temp employees. That one got chewed out for wasting my time. Yeah - 90% of recruiters have the morals and ethics of used car salesmen. Another one sent me to a wrong address for an interview. And recruiter interviews - be aware that you should be interviewing them to see if they are up to your level of professionalism. They have my resume, if they start interviewing me like I am going to be working for them, they get a dial tone. I understand not giving the company name, as long as it exists and not bait to get my resume into your database, no problems. Be aware that those ads you see by recruiters "company hiring, XXX salary, start now"...those ads are just bait and the jobs do not exist.I finally had one good recruiter that got me my current job which I have had for over a decade, and negotiated a starting bonus as well - that's how recruiters should work. She got a healthy commision from the employer, and I got a good job. Hopefully I will not have to deal with them again.I'm here to shed some light on some of the recruiters I've dealt with in the past few years. A few weeks ago I met with a recruiter from Aerotek, supposedly the biggest recruiting company in the US. He contacted me through Linkedin and expressed opportunities for me (I'm currently employed). I was not impressed with their efforts at all. I've met many recruiters throughout my years and they are all the same. Only call you that one time they have a job opening that their computer system deem is a match for me. I feel like a recruiter should help me find a job, not just call me when something happens to pop up, and they could make some commission off me.Anyway, while I was waiting for the recruiter to show up, another job seeker was in the waiting room with me. His recruiter arrives at 4:00pm and they go into a conference room close by. I overhear the following:Recruiter: What time did you get here? Because I thought our meeting was at 3:30pm?Seeker: I was here at 3:20pm.Recruiter: Oh? Because I didn't get the call from the receptionist until 3:40pm.That didn't sit well with me. So the receptionist notified you at 3:40pm and you still waited 20 minutes before coming out to see him? He knew someone was waiting and made them wait?Then the recruiter goes on to belittle the experience at the seeker had. Saying stuff like, "Obviously your tactics are not working if you're unemployed for a year." Just very rude in general.When my recruiter finally showed, he was more professional but still tried to talk down my experience as well. Keep in mind, I'm fully employed and just looking for new work, so I have leverage to tell him no. He goes on about a new position that may be right for me, but offering less than what I'm asking. I found out through my own job search, that same position he referred to is offering more than my asking price. So not sure what kind of game he was trying to play.I don't think I'll do business with Aerotek anymore in the future. Sounds like their training program is to teach recruiters to psychologically break down the job seekers so they have more control and leverage. I have a private small recruiter that I'm dealing with now and they are wonderful. Helps me look instead of keeping me in their system.?That's my story, just wanted to share it.Yeah I don't know How a recruiter can talk down to an applicant. Recruiters know almost nothing about the positions they're recruiting for - they're Psych Majors who just know how to read data off a screen and compare it to a resume. They know jack s*it about Plumbing, Accounting, Programming or whatever the position they're trying to fill is...Recruiters are some of the dumbest people I have ever met and dealt with. My brother was telling me not too long ago he was about to b**slap his recruiters across the face for being so damn stupid. I have the same feelings about most of the recruiters I have dealt in the past as well. The decisions they make, the people they pick for interviews are just mind boggling at times.$10-12 for a nursing assistant? That's terrible. I made $11 as file clerk, and that was over a decade ago. You are attracting the bottom of the barrel. The stronger candidates are working at other jobs for $15+/hr at other companies. You are left with the weak ones.?The high caliber younger workers are working in other jobs.Originally Posted by?tijlover?I've been at this same facility for 13 years now, and I'm only making $13.50 an hour. I believe the highest pay for a nursing assistant in this city ($16) is at a 5-star facility, where you had better have plenty of experience to work there, and they're also picky as hell as to who works there!These newer workers just don't have that kind of experience to work there at that rate of pay, and our competitors may pay $1 or $2 more an hour, for beginners, so the pay isn't that different!A nursing assistant could quit tomorrow for an entry level job in some corporate office for more than $12/hr. I was a file clerk for $11-12, back in 2005. I was laid off and landed another entry level shipping clerk role with some Access/Excel reporting for $30k/yr.?I have worked at a few different companies, where the entry level jobs pay $30-45k/yr.?Many of my friends are in management. They do not have same problem with young people. They are paying them $30-45k for office work. I don't see why a young person would choose a $12/hr job over $30-45k/yr job. You will get the bottom of the barrel, every time.?I have mentored a few younger generation of employees. After 3 years, they are making $70k/yr in a reporting or analytics role. They make it to work on time and don't leave in the middle of a shift.?Your job pays $13.50/hr for 13 years experience is not quite a ringing endorsement of a great career path for somebody in their 20's.?The same stuff happens in other low-paying jobs like retail and fast food . You are getting the bottom 10% of young candidates, just like McDonald's or Walmart. Keep cursing the younger generation, when you haven't worked with them in higher paying careers.You guys are avoiding the real issue..........today's youth have a terrible work ethic. Money is not the root of it, their lack of desire to work at all is the problem.I work with a mix of older and younger people, and the turn over in younger ones is 10-20 times what it is for the older ones, and we are all paid pretty much the same. They call in with no notice, show up late, always have some reason to have to leave early, and have a cell phone in their hand constantly. We had one guy who missed 5 days in his first 4 weeks.Nope, they are just lazy, have no drive, and don't think about how it affects everyone else when they don't pull their weight or show up. THAT is the real issue.Older people come in before their shift starts, get right to work, will fill in on a moments notice if needed, and think of their fellow workers before they call off. That is why we keep our jobs and kids do not.DonMaybe it is a double edged panies don't want to pay much. They need to keep profits high, so they figure let's set the wages as low as we can. They also have to base the pay on the area. Where I live the stock $10 an hour is bandied about like they are giving you the best pay in the world and you better count yourself lucky to get it.Jobs like administrative, receptionist, these sort of jobs pay about that. I have seen wages slip to less. I hardly see these jobs anymore in the paper or online. Most are obtained "temp" or temp to perm by an agency. (another scam to keep wages low).Stocking shelves, supermarket work pays minimum. Maybe a bit more.Meanwhile they figure they want as much bang for the buck so they hire young people--it looks nice to see Fresh faced Freddy or Perky Michelle bouncing about enthused to serve your pizza or whatever. Older people make others feel uncomfortable, especially in physically demanding jobs.So the young person, many of whom are cell phone addicts with sans social skills (again maybe not their fault but "society's") comes to work, gets fed up with the wages, realizes they cannot even get a foot hold in life on $200 a week and starts to look for greener pastures. They may live with Mom and Dad and can afford to quit.Older people are usually desperate for any job in this economy, and will put up with more.?I don't think it is an AGE problem. It should not be us vs. them. Pay fair wages and expect work from everyone. If they can't or won't get rid of them.Originally Posted by?thatguydownsouth?No, this is a pay issue. I worked at a grocery store 5 years ago and made 11.50 an hour to stock shelves. You are clearly getting bottom of the barrel employees for bottom of the barrel pay. Quit blaming my generation for your lack of fair pay.I had a shelf stocking job and after a few years I reached the pay max of about $14 or whatever. They offered me a shift manager job that came with no raise. It was simply a stepping stone position to become a salaried manager who often put in 55-60+ hour weeks for only 42 hours of actual pay. No thank you.I will agree that many of the younger generation just have no drive or work ethic. But many of them do. I place more of the blame on these greedy companies and upper management. Its unrealistic and ridiculous the hoops you have to swing through and what you're qualifications need to be just to get even a lousy 10-13 dollar/hour job these days.?Companies are fire greedier than they used to be and far more corrupt. Which is attributed to the death of the unions, power taken away from the employees, and no real checks and balances in place for these corporate parasites. Greed, unscrupulous behavior, and no monitoring of many of these corporations is sending this country down the TOILET!!The young people know this today but it is a reality for them. The older folk had it much easier in the workforce. So many more positions open with companies. There were unions in place which prevented these corporate plantation owners from abusing all their power. You could work in a place for 30 years with a great pension and job security (Not today). The older folk could just waltz into high paying management jobs without any college education. (Now you need a bachelor's or masters just go in the door entry level)Its much more ruthless and evil world today. The young people know this. They aren't gonna bust their butts and kill themselves for table scraps with the job of 5-6 people thrown on them. And I don't blame them.The blame needs to go to whoever should be monitoring these scuzzbucket companies and their corrupt, greedy leadership and put the hammer down on themAt $10-$12, people are not going to work very hard, especially if they believe they can do better in relatively short order. I'm not saying it's ethically right, but it's what happens.Bottom line.. If you treat your employees like disposable trash that don't matter, you're not going to get a motivated group. And thats the reality of the workplace for the younger people today. Employees used to be treated well and paid accordingly and in turn you had a motivated workforce. Now employees are starved out, treating like crap and the best ones end up with the job of half a dozen people thrown onto them (because management would rather operate on a skeleton crew and burn the hell out of their employees they kept around). I think the last report I read showed a 75-80 percent of worker disengagement? Thats INSANE. Where the ^*&# are the people that should be coming down on management for treating their workforce like trash causing this disengagement at work??there has been an even bigger shift within the last few years of the workforce to even cutting out christmas get togethers or work parties etc which helped raise morale. Simple things that employers would at least to do show some damn appreciation to their people (simple parties) and those are being cut out so the greedy management in place can buy their 3rd or 4th car, and the upper executives can buy their yachts.?Taking all of this into account. Why should this younger generation show such a high initiative? Employers don't care anyways. Its all about maximizing profit and cutting cost anywhere they can cut cost and throw all the work onto the remaining employees.?Most of this younger generation isn't lazy. They are just disillusioned and tired of being treated like crap by their employers. And they come to the conclusion (and the correct one) that there is no loyalty, respect, appreciation, real compensation from these companies todayDorianRo,Kids working today do not remember a week off at Christmas or the day of Thanksgiving and day after off from work.?In Europe they get almost a week or 2 at Christmas of holidays. Seems like we have lost our way to cheat workers out of a day at Thanksgiving and at Christmas just so Mrs. Jones can run in and buy another can of cranberry sauce and make the supermarket another 50 cents.Originally Posted by?Cheesesteak Cravings?No offense to you, because I don't know your situation, but quite frankly I would not want to be you if I were any of them.I worked on a concrete crew starting at $9 an hour. Their long time employees were making $12-$15. I quit after a month.5 years later I'm making $26 an hour with great benefits and job security doing less back breaking work. I was making the same thing their top paid guys were when I was a 3rd year apprentice.I'm still not satisfied and am looking to make more money within the next decade.You're proof that working hard and staying loyal DOES NOT PAY. These "kids" you're criticizing are onto something you haven't figured out in your 13 years. Go demand more money or tell them you're going to take another job. People like you are what's suppressing higher wages.That's the thing. Millennials are smart to the fact that companies are gonna try and milk you for everything while compensating you like crap. Screw that, why waste my time with company A when company B is going to reward me more?Some of these baby boomers criticize us for having a sense of entitlement, but I criticize them for not doing their due diligence. They are worried about bullcrap like company loyalty (I didn't realize we were programmed robots) whereas we are worried about our damn selves and paying our bills.Originally Posted by?EddieOlSkool?That's the thing. Millennials are smart to the fact that companies are gonna try and milk you for everything while compensating you like crap. Screw that, why waste my time with company A when company B is going to reward me more?Some of these baby boomers criticize us for having a sense of entitlement, but I criticize them for not doing their due diligence. They are worried about bullcrap like company loyalty (I didn't realize we were programmed robots) whereas we are worried about our damn selves and paying our bills.Most boomers don't know anything about companies trying to milk you for everything you are worth while paying you damn near the wages of 10-20 years ago (or worse). The boomers now are in positions of power in cushy office jobs with plenty of perks and money. How did they get there? Mostly by just seniority and/or having other friends in position of power. I see many of these old time boomers in the higher up positions even without college degrees. Because they attained these jobs before a degree was required in many of them. Nowadays, good luck even trying to get you're foot in the door in places even having a 4 year degree. Its a JOKE.?Boomers don't know anything about this. They spent years at the same companies with pensions, great pay, job security and many job openings for them to maneuver around and gain experience and good livable pay for a secured comforting lifestyle. Millenials don't get this same luxury.And another thing, Im always hearing this "millennials are lazy" gaga. Ive seen my fair share of LAZY good for nothing boomers as well who are in positions of far more power barely ever at work or doing anything productive and certainly not working the 12 hour shiftsIve had two different boomer bosses with the comments of "You're salary so naturally you are going to have to put more hours into the job". Yet I RARELY if ever see them work overtime AT ALL and they are in positions of higher responsibility than me. So the question is, If I have to work all these extra hours why don't they with their MUCH higher paying jobs and responsibility?? Hell most of the times these boomers don't even make it a full week at work. I see them maybe 3 days a week.?They got some nerve to sit there and work the millennials to dust while they are in higher positions of power, don't work any OT, and barely do anything constructiveI now understand the plight of the millenieals.I think there are several factors but one of them that is the most prevalent is the price of real estate.OR min wage is $9.25 but the average apartment is $700/mo.My sister in law is a lazy millenial. She was working for a nursing home at $11/hr. Was. I don't blame her, she wanted my help with making a budget, and I got to see first hand why she felt hopless and quit. She worked there for one year and by all acounts (i have second hand repots of her ethic) was a good worker. A year went by no raise, she asked about a raise, they literally laughed at her. (I believe it)For one she got 25-32hrs per week. (In OR employers don't have to provide heath care if workers only work a certian number of hours in the defined work week.) (Also, I have to buy my own health care because the company subdivided and now the subcompany has less that 25 FTE workers and therefore don't have to provide any health care benefits.)?So best case scenario she earns $352 per week pre tax. Then the fed and the state come in and rape her with 21% income tax. So $278 a week MAX. Her take home pay is between $460-560 every 2 weeks but sometimes as low as 400. (she has no control over hours.)So best case scenario she gets a total of $1,120 for 32 hours of work per week per month.?So she absolutely can not afford her own apartment. Even a shared room in Portland and surrounds is 400+/mo usually around 5-600/mo. So already she was spending 1/3 of her take home income on an apartment in a shared situation. They also wanted 1/3 utilities and during the summer the bill was 100 per person. In the winter it is more like 50/mo but still.She has to have a car to get to work. Even with a ragged kia sephia 4 cy she still has to spend 200/mo on gas.?remember, best case scenario $1120/mo450 for rent. In a 3 br apt.100 for utilities (water, garbage, power, internet,45 for phone straight talk wal mart plan150 for insurance (under 25)200 for gas.that's 900 of 1120 right there in MANDATORY spending. That leaves her $220/mo. to buy food/incidentals. Kind of hard to budget 220/mo.?Yes, I know some of you cotton tips will tell us about how you live on less than $1120/mo but you willl also neglect to tell us you live in a trailer or small house in the rural deep south or midwest that you paid $23,000 for in 1971 that is paid off and you have a 1985 datsun pickup. We get it.And that brings me to my first point...... real estate prices.?In 1994 I made $6.00hr (min wage) as a bagboy at safeway and worked about 32-40 hrs per week. An apartment in Portland was about $285/mo. $500.mo dollars got you a 22 or 3/2 back then. The average price of a house was $95,000. My first car an old (79) BMW in good condition was $1,300.Fast forward to 2015. $9.25 is the min wage. the average 1/1 in portland costs $685/mo and a 2/1 is between $750-900. Market rate for a 3/2 is now $1100/mo. When we were looking at houses we could not find any hud/fha/va approved housing for under $225K most were pushing 330k we ended up buying a fixer upper with cash for 174k in a crap neighborhood.given that information we find.285 per month/6 hr= 47 47 hours worth of work pays for rent in 1994.685 per month/9.25hr 74 74 hours worth of work just to pay rent at minimum wage in 2015 at market price in Portland Or.Real estate prices have so outpaced wages to the point its very hard for young folks to become independent. The problem is since they can't become independent (have their own apartment) they go into a shared living situation which is terrible and they usually end up moving back home because at least its quiet and you can get along better with your parents. Low wages/low hours available with variable schedules/crappy co workers/meaningless raises or no raises at all/no benefits/no retirement plan/frustrating work environments. I really can't blame them. I am a bootstrapper to the max, but something has to give. Personally, I think the fact that boomers lost their retirements they are holding on the work longer and longer has made the work force older on average than pervious genereations.?I think the reason they are not good workers is because they know they can't make enough to be independent or move up. They live paycheck to paycheck so no matter how austere the budget they still can't be independent. They see people working there for 4 years only making one or two dollars more per hour and think "what a dead end job" why should I waste my time here? They rarely have health care so why get crippled doing manual labor if no one will pay for medical care. They just stay healthy and stay at home and play video games, live life like they did in high school and they are fine with that. They pretty much survive on mom and dad handouts and 300 bucks in fast food. They might spend 50/60 bucks a month on renting games.?This happened in Europe 2 decades before it happened here. When the Euro replaced the DM/franc/lira etc in 1995, Real estate and COL got so high that it was becoming common to have 3 generations living in the same house. When I was in germany in 06 I saw the writing on the wall. I used to say things to 32 year olds living in their parent homes with their kids "why don't you get apartments and move out." Then they showed me things like studios above someones garage for 1.100 EUR/mo and I got it. The real estate is just too expensive.A lot of these posts highlight that the wages for the bottom 40% of wage earners coupled with the few prospects to work your way up to better paying positions makes the prospect of working hardly worth doing for large swaths of the population anymore.We are becoming a third world country and it's exactly what the PTB want. Don't think it's any accident that they're importing people from the third world by the millions every year for many, many years now. Except for maybe the top 10%, maybe 20% tops, of income earners in this country you're looking at more of a second or third world lifestyle if you're in your early 40's and under every year for the foreseeable future. This country must be brought closer to the level of the rest of the world.?We're heading to the same place Europe is except we're usually 15 years or so behind. Just like the post before described.Yes, due the high & rising cost of college, and the high & rising cost of living in general, I completely understand why a lot of millenials & even older folks have to end up living with family - since many can't afford their own place(s).It's a sad state of affairs, and shouldn't be that way - but it is.?I honestly can't even understand how many people even?afford?a 4-year college degree these days - it's so incredibly expensive. I graduated 20 year ago (1995), and went to a school in-state, and I thought it was pricey at that time. However, tuition has gone up exponentially since then...IMO you should be asking why THE PRESIDENT and his administration is trying his best to turn this country into a minimum wage, low skilled government dependent country.?THEN bring in the MOST indigent, unskilled and pathetic illegals they can find Who can't even read or write in THEIR OWN LANGUAGE.?Want a better job? Don't have kids. Finish school. Get some skills or move to the Great Plains States where you can benefit from the ONLY INDUSTRY creating wealth and jobs, the OIL industry.?And move out of CALIFORNIA where they're about to BANG YOU UP again with a new global warming tax. LOL seriously.?It's not rocket science.?Sometimes I really believe Liberals are the biggest racists of all. You REALLY BELIEVE that SO MANY PEOPLE are humanly INCAPABLE of doing more with their lives? CYNICAL.?I'm a lousy dog walker and a client paid me $2000 to live in with her CAT for 2 weeks (while I still did my other jobs).?BOO HOO work is hard.?Every single person in all the fast food places in my town are kids OR people who don't really speak English. That's how it works. And half your COOKS are ex cons who learned in prison. Ask them.In far too many restaurants these days back of the house jobs are often done by illegal aliens. Last year, a large restaurant in my area had 100 illegal aliens working for them and had to fire them all. Illegal aliens have further depressed wages for restaurant work.?There are chain restaurant conglomerates that use E-verify and pay their staff decently with benefits.To give a bit of a background, I'm not the most experienced in the workforce. I've been working post-undergrad fulltime for about five years now so I don't have much of a perspective on how things use to be; however, I've gained a pretty solid base of how things seem to be NOW through my tenure at three larger organizations spanning different industries.One thing seems to be true across the board -- employers are reluctant to send their employees to training and training is typically the first thing to be cut when the fiscal year isn't looking all so profitable.Now, I completely understand how expensive training can be. One week in Manhattan for an IBM course for myself cost upwards of $10,000 once travel, lodging, meals, and tuition costs are added up; however, training is what keeps an employee sharp on what's new and what's changing in their field. It builds on their competencies, boosts morale, and directly adds value to their contributions to the organization. That being said, why is it the first thing to be cut?Example:1st company -- major aerospace/defense organization, highly profitable, 275,000+ employees:* Never any training availability, only critical travel allowed despite huge investments in bleeding edge technology2nd company -- large casino/resort/tribal government, highly profitable, 7,000+ employees:* Sent to training once. As soon as budgets got tight, training was the first thing to go (many employees went years without training despite there being a large training budget every year). A friend of mine was just told by his new manager, "you seem like a pretty technical guy, so I don't really see any need for you to take training for you to do your job well."?3rd company -- regional healthcare non-profit, yet highly profitable (lol), 10,000+ employees:* Training highly valued, yet still it was the first thing to be cut. Most training requests have been denied or ignored. I was fortunate enough to slip through the cracks utilizing training credits (ie, $0 cost to the business).What gives? You invest millions upon millions in new technology, expect everyone to stay ahead of the curve, invest $100K+ annually per highly skilled employee, yet balk when it comes to training them.Anyone else seeing this in their organizations?Yep it is very damaging and short-sighted. It is the reason we have so many college grads working menial jobs. Rather than train, companies are playing tug of war with the same aging employees. In the future there may well be a shortage of many skillsets when these employees retire and companies have failed to train a replacement generation.I don't think I've ever recieved more than the most rudimentary training. A lot of what I know I had to go out and learn myself with books, journals, free online seminars, discussion forums etc.Simple, it costs less money to hire employees that are already up-to-speed on their duties than it does to hire employees that you must train to do their duties.?It is short-sighted and damaging in the long term, but all the shareholders/owners care about is how much money they can save and take in as profit for the next quarter (which they're perfectly free to do).All they care about is themselves and profit. If you don't have the experience right away, you're screwed.I have budget several thousand for each of my staff for training and associated travel for next year, as is normal here. As long as the training will help them in their current duties, or with possible promotional opportunities within the organization?we are happy to pay for it. We also have a lot of in house training programs, some with professionals brought in to teach.?Not only does it improve production, but also helps with retention, not many people bail for jobs elsewhere. On the other hand, we demand experience when hiring, most jobs require 3+ years. Initial training for new employees is mostly on the corporate policies and procedures, since they will hopefully have the knowledge, skills and abilities for the work already.If not, we have a 6-month probation period.The trend away from training is largely due to the availability of experienced people, the increasing cost of training, and the reduced productivity when people are away from their desks being trained. For us, with the average employee (1,900) at about 50 years old, it's a good investment for continuity in the future, in a specialized field.I think a large part of it is that twenty or thirty years ago people wanted to stay with the same company for their whole careers, but these days it's perfectly normal and even considered acceptable to change companies every five years. They don't see a compelling reason to dump thousands of dollars into training someone when that person might jump ship as soon as they've got enough training to work somewhere different.There were more incentives for staying at a job long-term in the past. There was job security offered by unions and pension plans were more common.Originally Posted by?squirrels?I think a large part of it is that twenty or thirty years ago people wanted to stay with the same company for their whole careers, but these days it's perfectly normal and even considered acceptable to change companies every five years.?They don't see a compelling reason to dump thousands of dollars into training someone when that person might jump ship as soon as they've got enough training to work somewhere different.Loyalty works both ways.When opportunities for promotions are limited, or your company is giving only COLA raises or no raises at all, then your employees will see you don't value them and they will go somewhere that does value them.See the below post...Quote:Originally Posted by?L210?There were more incentives for staying at a job long-term in the past.?There was job security offered by unions and pension plans were more common.The bolded has been all but eliminated in the name of cost savings...Originally Posted by?Hemlock140?The trend away from training is largely due to the availability of experienced people, the increasing cost of training, and the reduced productivity when people are away from their desks being trained. For us, with the average employee (1,900) at about 50 years old, it's a good investment for continuity in the future, in a specialized field.But that only goes for so long. America is aging and baby boomers are retiring. One third of all of the public school superintendents in Vermont retired LAST MONTH. We can talk about the risks of hiring people without experience all we want but there also is a inverse risk in terms of keeping employees once retirement comes in. You can delay social security but you?cannot?delay medicare.?There is not really a increased cost of training when frankly it does not have to be face to face. I've sat in on various teleconferences that I could have flown and seen in person but what would have been the point? I get the same information from the same sources, the same Q&A since I can call up or type up questions and it saves quite a sum of money in hotels and airtravel let alone lunch. The organization knows it is us watching because the IP addresses show that on their end and of course we can use webcams.The other aspect is frankly taking experience due to age alone can be a blind faith. Not all organizations train people and thus it is a huge gamble to take on someone with decades of something that could be utter rubbish. I can't begin to illustrate how many people I have met that have worked at companies that folded. So you were a manager for 10 years..ok can you prove that?From a manager's perspective, training is tricky policy. Depending on what type of training, if it adds value and increases the compensation value of the employee it will be difficult to add because companies are afraid of turnovers.?There are many cases and examples that some employees after receiving training that cost $$$ leave in a few months later because they got what they need to increase their salary requirement elsewhere.So most companies today would rather hire someone who has the skillset and other additional skillsets without needing additional training.Sending workers to high skills training is a gamble.If the employee got the training and became more valueable and the company did not properly value them and they left then that is the incompetent companies fault.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?If the employee got the training and became more valueable and the company did not properly value them and they left then that is the incompetent companies fault.Pretty much.Not wanting to train someone is usually out of laziness, or being worried that you train someone so well that they take over your job.The notion of formal training is a relatively new thing in most industries. The biggest companies began doing it in the 1970's, but everyone else had 'on the job training' and were thrown into it, asking questions as they went along. It's tough to tell which resulted in better employees, because the employees of today are not cut from the same cloth as employees from yesteryear.?The area I find this is the biggest problem is management. People are being promoted to managers with no training and nobody bothering to mentor and groom the person. Mentoring is important to me and those I know, but I look at some of the 35 - 50 year old age group and they don't bother, so the people they're putting in as managers are floundering and few are self-motivated enough to pick up a book and learn how to manage people.?My departments have always had formal training sessions, but neither one of my kids had any kind of formal training at all. They just asked as they went along.Originally Posted by?313Weather?Loyalty works both ways.When opportunities for promotions are limited, or your company is giving only COLA raises or no raises at all, then your employees will see you don't value them and they will go somewhere that does value them.See the below post...The bolded has been all but eliminated in the name of cost savings.......or in other words, a higher profit margin. Because on the top, that's what it's all about today. Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money. Employees be damned.Originally Posted by?vision33r?From a manager's perspective, training is tricky policy. Depending on what type of training, if it adds value and increases the compensation value of the employee it will be difficult to add because companies are afraid of turnovers.?There are many cases and examples that some employees after receiving training that cost $$$ leave in a few months later because they got what they need to increase their salary requirement elsewhere.So most companies today would rather hire someone who has the skillset and other additional skillsets without needing additional training.Sending workers to high skills training is a gamble.Besides valuing employees more, the solution to this is rather simple. I worked for a security company that provided people with the training to receive their armed security licenses. If they quit before completing a certain number of months with the company, the cost of the training was deducted from their last paycheck. The Bexar County Sheriff's Office offers paid training to detention officer cadets. If you leave before completing a year on the job, they will prorate the cost of training based on how many months you worked and take that out of your last paycheck.Originally Posted by?L210?Besides valuing employees more, the solution to this is rather simple. I worked for a security company that provided people with the training to receive their armed security licenses. If they quit before completing a certain number of months with the company, the cost of the training was deducted from their last paycheck. The Bexar County Sheriff's Office offers paid training to detention officer cadets. If you leave before completing a year on the job, they will prorate the cost of training based on how many months you worked and take that out of your last paycheck.That's similar to how company #1 I worked for handled tuition reimbursement. Initially (I'm sure they dropped this sweet benefit by now), employees could take any degree-seeking program related to their job and receive 100% tuition reimbursement. Reimbursement took place after each semester, after grades were verified.?The requirement was that the employee must stick around 1 year after receiving reimbursement or else they'd have to pay it back (at a pro-rated by month basis). I completed my graduate degree on this benefit; however, I moved on 8 months later to a different company. Because of this, I had to pay back around 33% of the tuition from my final semester.I see tuition reimbursement in a different light than training though... Reimbursement is typically company-wide with a broad set of guidelines. Training is more career progression based and typically falls under the budget of your individual department or group.Originally Posted by?unixfed?To give a bit of a background, I'm not the most experienced in the workforce. I've been working post-undergrad fulltime for about five years now so I don't have much of a perspective on how things use to be; however, I've gained a pretty solid base of how things seem to be NOW through my tenure at three larger organizations spanning different industries.One thing seems to be true across the board -- employers are reluctant to send their employees to training and training is typically the first thing to be cut when the fiscal year isn't looking all so profitable.Now, I completely understand how expensive training can be. One week in Manhattan for an IBM course for myself cost upwards of $10,000 once travel, lodging, meals, and tuition costs are added up; however, training is what keeps an employee sharp on what's new and what's changing in their field. It builds on their competencies, boosts morale, and directly adds value to their contributions to the organization. That being said, why is it the first thing to be cut?Example:1st company -- major aerospace/defense organization, highly profitable, 275,000+ employees:* Never any training availability, only critical travel allowed despite huge investments in bleeding edge technology2nd company -- large casino/resort/tribal government, highly profitable, 7,000+ employees:* Sent to training once. As soon as budgets got tight, training was the first thing to go (many employees went years without training despite there being a large training budget every year). A friend of mine was just told by his new manager, "you seem like a pretty technical guy, so I don't really see any need for you to take training for you to do your job well."?3rd company -- regional healthcare non-profit, yet highly profitable (lol), 10,000+ employees:* Training highly valued, yet still it was the first thing to be cut. Most training requests have been denied or ignored. I was fortunate enough to slip through the cracks utilizing training credits (ie, $0 cost to the business).What gives? You invest millions upon millions in new technology, expect everyone to stay ahead of the curve, invest $100K+ annually per highly skilled employee, yet balk when it comes to training them.Anyone else seeing this in their organizations?I think that many companies, including the school systems, think that skipping training is a good way to save money, but it sometimes makes for a lousy employee. It's not fair to the smart new talent just as needy and deserving as the next bunch, and, in some cases, it can be potentially detrimental to society. Unless things have changed, the school board where I live does not offer training to their new teachers until they've almost completed the school year. This means that an Education student has to get a lot of job-specific training on his or her own. The so-called teacher training programs that the universities offer are ineffective for teaching the most important skills--classroom management, student-teacher interaction, and class organization. These skills have to be attained via many hours of volunteer work, volunteer work that does not appear on the list of pre-requisite skills. Now, that's not fair. New teachers literally have to train themselves to have a decent shot at getting on the full-time payroll.Originally Posted by?Hemlock140?I have budget several thousand for each of my staff for training and associated travel for next year, as is normal here. As long as the training will help them in their current duties, or with possible promotional opportunities within the organization?we are happy to pay for it. We also have a lot of in house training programs, some with professionals brought in to teach.?Not only does it improve production, but also helps with retention, not many people bail for jobs elsewhere. On the other hand, we demand experience when hiring, most jobs require 3+ years. Initial training for new employees is mostly on the corporate policies and procedures, since they will hopefully have the knowledge, skills and abilities for the work already.If not, we have a 6-month probation period.The trend away from training is largely due to the availability of experienced people, the increasing cost of training, and the reduced productivity when people are away from their desks being trained. For us, with the average employee (1,900) at about 50 years old, it's a good investment for continuity in the future, in a specialized field.I agree with the bolded part. For every single job opening that we post, we receive close to 30 applicants. We interview a select few and are able to recruit someone with say 5 years experience for a job requiring 0-3 years experience.Originally Posted by?oldtrader?It is the employees fault, that the companies do not want to spend the large amount of money needed to train them.In the past, an employer could invest money in an employee, and the employee would remain with them allowing the company to get back their investment having a more productive employee.Today, just look at these boards. When someone talks about getting a new job and will be getting training, the majority of the young posters tell them to get the training and immediately start putting out their resumes to get a higher paid and/or better job once they have the training. The companies know, if they pay for training they will not get their money for training back, and have to hire a new employee as soon as the person they hired and trained leaves.As the employer knows this is their attitude, they take the only intelligent path. There are qualified applicants that already have the training willing to take the job, so hire the already trained person. It will be the cheapest route for the company to take, even if they pay a higher wage and benefits to get the experienced trained person.Its always the employees fault with you isn't it? Always the corporate apologist. The only intelligent path is to invest in your employees. Without employees there is no company. Companies have no one to blame but themselves. They choose to hire by cherry picking employees from other companies rather than hire from a skilled unemployed workforce. This is the bed corporate america has made for itself and now has to lie in it.There are a lot of smart people all over the world, and for reasons of economics, at least to a certain extent, superior opportunities for gaining superior skills are becoming more affordable to the educated of large, second-world nations to an extent greater than within first-world nations like the United States. So when we talk about how the loss of an educated workforce will affect companies, we cannot help but acknowledge how companies have been vigorously transferring much of their skilled work overseas. If the company isn't selling a physical contact (i.e., doctors, nurses, physical therapists) then we can be sure some company somewhere is looking for a way to pay someone $30K, all in, in India as a replacement for paying a loaded amount double that here. Beyond that, there is nothing in the law or in the principles of economics that make the decades-long view directly impact the day-to-day decisions of corporate leaders right now. Quite the opposite. The way things are arranged is such that the more than do what you consider "intelligent" the less benefit for them. This is the bed corporate America has made for us, its workers. They don't have to lie in it - they can just bend with the wind and move their money on to some other venture that is making money at the time - it is the American people who have to lie in the bed corporate America has made.Because it costs money and time. Nowadays they just force everyone to get a degree or go to a trade school because they're too stingy.This is true even for the most simple jobs. For example My local key food doesn't want to "train" people to work the cashiers and stock shelves lol. They demand you have at least 6 months work experience before people apply.Originally Posted by?jma501?Its always the employees fault with you isn't it? Always the corporate apologist. The only intelligent path is to invest in your employees. Without employees there is no company. Companies have no one to blame but themselves. They choose to hire by cherry picking employees from other companies rather than hire from a skilled unemployed workforce. This is the bed corporate america has made for itself and now has to lie in it.I agree - it is not always the employees fault, as some of the corporate apologists want to believe.?Certainly there is bad advice that one should start putting out resumes/seriously considering other jobs once they complete training. This contributes to the whole "job hopper" moniker which is very damaging.On the flip side, the reason that people do leave is money and corporate culture. Management tends to be unwilling to stay ahead of the salary curves even for experienced people. Many times, the only way to get a decent raise is to switch jobs.Originally Posted by?BradPiff?My older brother said hes trained approximately 60 people to perform his occupation. Out of that number, maybe 10 are still doing it. The others either failed the certifications or went into another field not too long after. Each certification TEST costs about $500 and must be taken every 3 years for re-certification.?I can see why some companies don't shell-out the money for it, but to not train them at all is kinda stupid and self-defeating.?The flip side is that is $500 dollars + costs for training courses that the employee needs to shell out if the company doesn't. I don't know about everyone but $500 isn't exactly throwaway money.Originally Posted by?oldtrader?Consider it from the employers point of view. If you have the opportunity to hire someone that is trained for the job, and ready to take on the job, vs. hiring someone that is going to cost you money and be inefficient for a period of time, which one would you choose. One is a valuable employee immediately. One is a costly unknown that may or may not be a good employee after spending considerable money training them. The second one, is possibly one of the people that after training will immediately look for another job.Today when there are lots of people with training and education behind them and a few years experience, why take on an unknown and spend a lot of money training them. It does not make sense.This is not the point. Of course if you have 2 candidates, one fresh out of school and another who has 5 years of experience, you're going to take the latter. Even then, it may be months before the experienced employee is up to speed.What is happening is that employers are looking for purple squirrel candidates who may not exist for one reason or another. In other words, you may not be able to convince an experienced person to move to the mid west for the salary you are offering. So, you may have to bite the bullet and take a less than optimal person.?Quote:Originally Posted by?oldtrader?And yes it is the fault of employees. The past few years, the young men and women have the idea they will only work for a company for a couple years to a maximum of five and then move on somewhere else. They have burned employers over and over again, who took them on and trained them only to have them leave as soon as they are capable of doing a good job for the company. They are tired of spending considerable time and money training their competitors employees.\Again, this is not all on the employee. The employer has some skin in the game as well. The issue is when the employee is up and running you're only giving them minimal raises.Originally Posted by?oldtrader?Consider it from the employers point of view. If you have the opportunity to hire someone that is trained for the job, and ready to take on the job, vs. hiring someone that is going to cost you money and be inefficient for a period of time, which one would you choose. One is a valuable employee immediately. One is a costly unknown that may or may not be a good employee after spending considerable money training them. The second one, is possibly one of the people that after training will immediately look for another job.Today when there are lots of people with training and education behind them and a few years experience, why take on an unknown and spend a lot of money training them. It does not make sense.And yes it is the fault of employees. The past few years, the young men and women have the idea they will only work for a company for a couple years to a maximum of five and then move on somewhere else. They have burned employers over and over again, who took them on and trained them only to have them leave as soon as they are capable of doing a good job for the company. They are tired of spending considerable time and money training their competitors employees.As BigDavey mentioned, if a business were to get a college grad with a relevant major but no relevant work experience (rather than course experience) vs someone with work experience, provided the experienced worker doesn't want too much. In that case either the business takes the grad or leaves the job open because God-forbid they train someone.As BigDavey also mentioned, the benefits and pay for working are historically lower than ever. When raises are just at COLA levels if anything, they aren't competitive and the way you get a raise is promotion or departing for another job. What would you do if your 35K a year job just gets a 1K raise next year and that is not even enough to keep up with healthcare increases? Would you stay with them or go elsewhere and get a 5K raise?Good programmers are very creative. It's hard for creative people to get and keep jobs, because managers like to build organization hierarchies, and creative people don't fit well in those. The most valuable skill from the point of view of the person doing the hiring is that you can suck up to the manager and help build the organization hierarchy. The steeper it gets, the higher the manager, which is the goal. So most of the programmers that get hired are better at other activities than programming. And that's why most software is low quality.One way to earn a living as a good programmer should be to do your own work, and sell the results. But that doesn't usually work either, because good programmers usually don't have the sales and business talents needed for that. It's rare that a perfect team can be put together. One where the programmer can be creative and still fit in, and the other talents can fit in without causing organization strife. The best odds are when the whole company is just a few people who know each other well and work together well, and all are equal partners with no need for anyone to suck up to anyone else.In the past, before the whole country was saturated with H1B programmers, there was a lot more demand for programmers than supply. That made it easy for all of them to get jobs, including the most creative ones. A lot of those programmers are now retired, with retirement income based on the higher earnings from those times. A lot of those retired programmers continue to program as a hobby. That's part of the reason why a lot of the best software is free open source.There's a reason a lot of people are frustrated. Capable, qualified people are often not able to find work because employers want purple skills, good jobs are few and far between, and most of the jobs we are creating are on the low end. Older workers who were laid off have seen their incomes decline. Younger workers can't get a start. There are reasons to be ticked off.?Moreover, society keeps pushing kids into college when it's seldom worth it. We have historically told kids to take out whatever debt to get a degree, any degree, and it'll generally pay off. Even people with good degrees are struggling. I know BS accountants stuck in call centers. CS people working the help desk. A finance guy working as an assistant manager at a Rent-A-Center. That's not counting people with lousy degrees like the theater guy I have a thread on who went to a private school and is now slinging coffee at Dunkin' Donuts.I was extremely pissed off for years. I graduated in economics and wanted to go into personal finance. I couldn't find a job, so I got a job at a help desk. I picked up a bunch of IT certifications trying to get off the phones. All that led to were more jobs on the phone. I did eventually find a good job, but I was four years out of college with eight certs making less than $12/hour. Upset? You better believe it and justifiably so!Yeah, some of these folks do have an attitude problem, and while I can understand where they got it from, it's not helpful.Originally Posted by?313Weather?Agreed.Some people simply come here to vent their frustration and find a shoulder or two to cry on, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that (sometimes that's what we all need as humans). If this bothers you, that's what the ignore list is for. They don't need insensitive bores coming on here to shame them from doing so.I think it just goes along with the apathetic climate we deal with nowadays that seeks to vilify anyone who doesn't appear perfect (successful) in our vision, so we needn't spend any energy caring about their plight, let alone (gasp!) be asked?to help them.Gee.......I wonder if that "whining" could be because there are more and more unemployed people out there and that the government manipulates numbers to reflect what they want us to hear? The actual numbers and the math that goes into them make my head hurt but I've heard actual unemployment estimates running as high as 23%. That's a lot of freaking people out of work.I am not unemployed but I have been as recently as 3 years ago and let me tell you, it ain't easy out there. Especially when you're over 40. Things have changed in quite a few ways in today's job market. Gone are the days where you simply walk into a company, hand over your resume and hope that a hiring manager calls you. On the low end of the employment scale, most big box stores don't even have a hiring manager on premises. You fill out a 20 page application online (which crashes half the time) then fill out a 45 minute "personality profile" during which you also have the chance of being booted from the system. After a computer decides if you're right for the job and if you are, you face at least 2 0r 3 interviews with a local HR person who in all reality usually act as if they're doing you a huge favor by asking you unpleasant hypothetical questions like: What would you do if you found out that a fellow employee was stealing paperclips? Would you turn them in or keep the knowledge to yourself??.....all that for some minimum wage, bottom of the ladder type work. 12 years ago, I was hired to run a retirement home with a 5 million operating budget without half the fuss. People are griping because the hiring process has largely lost it's human touch and because of the glut of candidates for decent jobs they can get so specifically picky it's ridiculous. Urine tests for nicotine, disclosure of social media sites, personality profiles, all robbing people of their humanity for the sake of a paycheck.Does attitude matter? Of course it does and I'm sure that most of the people who come here to b*tch do so out of frustration. That doesn't mean that's the face they show when job hunting. Forums are largely anonymous, they give people a place to vent in what is surely a frustrating position.......and I for one, think that's a healthy outlet. So if you don't care to read about the trials and tribulations most job hunters face today there's a simple answer.........click the "forums" link at the top of the page and move along.I honestly think there are a lot of folks out there feeling defeated. Job searching is demoralizing. American society tells the individual that your self-worth is based on possessions and money. I constantly see threads bashing a person on food stamps or unemployment as being lazy when it never occurred to the person doing the bashing that this person may have hit a rough patch. Meanwhile the same folks encourage outsourcing and praise CEOs for making out like rock stars while paying their employees crap.?Poor folks are often viewed as worthless and uneducated in our society. That fact gets to a lot of people who are stuck in poverty who are genuinely trying to find a way out. I honestly think this is why suicides go up in a bad economy.?However, there are people who just refuse to try anything. One person might say, "buy a bike at Wal-mart to solve your transportation problems." Then the other person might say, "I don't want a cheap bike." Or you might say to someone, "What about joining the Peace Corps?" Then someone might say, "I don't want to go live in Africa." A person who is unemployed has to keep trying and be open to new possibilities. I would think that living in a hut in Africa and building a resume might be better than living on the streets in New York and doing nothing. And a cheap bike is better than nothing.I feel kind of mixed about this, yes there are complaints perhaps a pattern in the complaint yet at the same time, for most finding a job is not easy. Even many of the retail stores tell you to apply online or at their kiosk and even after you fill out the application there is no guarantee that the retail store will call you back. I know people always fall back on the old adage "well at least there is retail"- I can tell you that is not always the case. Further at times you still get the insane advice of "oh just walk into the company and hand your resume to Hiring manager"-something i have not seen true for a long time.?I have had many experiences where I apply online through their website, call the store up and ask if they are hiring for "X" position that I just applied for online-and many times I am told no, what is up with that? Is there some sort of disconnect between the online postings and if the store actually needs people? Though I never consider filling out an application a true waste of time, I have to stop and wonder.Venting from time to time is useful its a part of human nature. However I do not agree with "the world is against me, god hates me etc..." What I do agree with is - yes "I need experience to get a job but how do i get experience if no one will hire me in the first place"-very much exists, knowing someone internally is a huge boon- you can have 2 equally qualified candidates but because one has an inside connection they have the edge.That being said the job seeker must never give up, he must keep applying, applying smarter and must be willing to "settle".Is there a specific pattern amongst the unemployed posting on city data- maybe but at the same their is a justification for the frustration (to a certain degree).The problem is even if the person is willing to relocate and the pay is decent, the company would be unwilling to do any type of on-the-job training. There are skilled programmers out there, but not necessarily in web development.The wife and I would be ready to bite the bulled and willing to relocate if I got any reasonable offer. Instead, I get the run around of "Well, we're looking for someone with professional experience, and the work you've done on nights/weekends doesn't really count"I am leaving no stone unturned though...I have been employed for a long time with the same employer. If I lost my job, I would have one heck of a time getting hired again. Age and people skills would work against me. Even so, I get new job offers on a regular basis. Attitude, work ethic and mindset are good enough that potential employers see me and would like me to work for them.I like people and enjoy helping people. I enjoy the feeling of accomplishment of a job well done, and a good job workout. These are part of my skill sets. I'm not trying to brag, just trying to be honest with what I have to work with.HRs cull to try to get the best fit of people for jobs. I have below average get-the-job-offer skills. I do recognize managers fears. The emotional and financial costs of getting a bad employee are large, even bankruptcy huge for smaller firms. I would challenge that employer to try me out. I would tell them that if after a few days, that if they cannot say that I made made their life easier, made them money and and prove the potential of making them even more money, to let me go. At worst, I win with new experiences, and they have nothing to lose.Demonstrating that you get it, that you are not owed a paycheck, but that your job worth is dependent on how well you solve problems and bring money in will get help overcome employers fears on giving you an offer. Just my opinion, but may be worth a try for someone pounding the pavement for a job.In May2009 I was laid off from what I thought was my retirement job. I spent the next year sending no less than 8-10 resumes per day to companies all over the USA. Over the course of the year I was blessed to get several interviews (none of which were where I lived) and always came in 2nd. In June of 2010, I came home to Wyoming to help care for my Dad. While here I cruised all the local papers for a job. I applied and was accepted for a position in North Central Wyoming in my given field. Fast forward 4 years, still here, less stress, fly fish every weekend, 11 weeks vacation a year, salary back up to previous before layoff, and for the first time in many years very comfortable with life. This was not an easy transition. I had to relocate across country, relocate the Mrs. away from her family, and leave friends of 30 years behind. In my very humble opinion this would not have been accomplished had I not had faith in the LORD, had great and supporting wife, family, & friends, and believed that if I tried hard enough eventually I would get re-employed. Over the last 20-30 years we have become an entitlement, very selfish society that expects others to "help" us out. When I moved back home to Wyoming did I move in with the parents? Absolutely not!!! Thier support were words of encouragement and the occasional home cooked meal (really missed Mom's cooking). I never and have not lost faith that the LORD will always walk next to me both in this life and the next. For me this worked IMHO.I've noticed a pattern with people claiming that unemployed people have no right to be angry. I'm not sure what you were expecting. There are a lot of qualified people out there who have doneEVERYTHING?in their power for a job. They have children to feed, mortgages to pay and bills to catch up with. Because of the competition for even the most minimum wage of a job, you can't blame them for frustration and rants.?I've been unemployed so I know how it feels when you have absolutely NO money coming in.I want to also add that I am a young person in my early 30's. It took me a good while to get a start somewhere after I lost my job at Hunter College as an assistant in a computer lab. With the older, more qualified folks being hired for entry level jobs, it makes it very hard for young people to get a start.At the same time, I agree that one should not give up looking for a job.Just because a person may sound defeated or blame the world for their troubles on here, doesn't necessarily mean they think like that 100% of the time. Maybe 95% of the time they are pulling themselves up by the bootstraps, but then at their lower moments they decide to post on an anonymous forum for support, to vent, or to let their guard down.It's also not always easy to paint an accurate picture of a situation in a few paragraphs. Plus, just because someone doesn't listen to a forum poster's advice, doesn't mean they don't listen to any advice (in general anyway). Maybe the advice isn't realistic, or even good advice in some cases.Last, there are plenty of good employees in tough work situations, or people that have been (or could be) successful and are now unemployed, and the answers aren't always simple.I am looking for a job and I have decided that I would rather work for a mid-size to small company as opposed to Corporate- Fortune 200-500. The way I see it is that the corporate environment is full of such power hungry management and high level politics where butt kissing trumps hard work.I feel that at a small to mid size company hard work is much more appreciated than in Corporate where hard work is overlooked and smoozing all day is what gets you ahead. I really don't have the energy for all that butt kissing. I just want to put in an honest day work and go home.Any thoughts?I don't blame you a bit!Big corporations are a little like big cities, I think. Some people do well in them, and others need a "smaller town." Just keep in mind that the culture in a small to medium-sized company can be just as toxic. It really depends on the CEO and the management. They need to be dedicated to keeping the toxins at bay. And just because they company is "green" or otherwise involved in causes doesn't mean that it's not dysfunctional.When you are interviewing, try to get there a little early and tune into the vibe. Do people seem basically happy and productive? Try to listen to the conversations in the cafeteria or break room. Even better, do you know employees who work there? Try to get a handle on the culture early on.Internet reviews may or may not be accurate. Try to decide for yourself.Some questions to ask HR:- What is the next level for my position?- How often are people promoted?- What is the process for promotion? (look for some clear standards, even better if written down in a company handbook - less chance for butt kissing)- What additional training/education does the company provide? (do they want you to have additional college classes? Will they pay for them? If they want you to pay 100% for training to advance, that's a red flag to me)Also research how many "community events" the company does. How much time are you expected to put into that? See the thread about the poster who is no longer doing "extra stuff" for the company. That may or may not hurt her in a smaller company. For example, if the CEO is a runner and gung-ho on sponsoring "Roger's Run" each spring and expects all the employees to contribute in some way, and all of the supervisors do, then it might not be the best idea to ignore that activity.In any case, good luck with finding a better working environment!I think a lot of the problem is that there is a huge disconnect between fact and fiction on what colleges, career counselors and professors are telling their students on how to get their career going. No wonder these people are so confused and feel like no one will give them a chance. All the advice they are given is wrong.?They think if they want to work at a company or learn more about a company that they should connect with someone who works there. In reality, it doesn't quite go that smoothly in the real world. I was reading a thread on here where someone fresh out of college sent his resume to a company and found the company's hiring manager profile on linkeIn and he wanted to send a message there to follow up on the resume. When people were telling him not to do that, he insisted that what we told him goes against everything he was told to do.These college career counselors need to give the correct tools to these students because they got them out there confused and frustrated. They have them taking courses and networking classes that do not work in reality. I really feel bad.Give them a pass because they are trying to get a career going the only way they were taught.Basically, once they've moved up into a position in which they feel they're able to maintain a comfortable lifestyle, they don't want to move up any more and take on additional responsibilities for a diminishing return in compensation and benefits.?The problem many are experiencing in this economy is reaching that point, as there aren't very many jobs available beyond the part-time/low wage positions that offer limited advancement opportunities.Originally Posted by?Meyerland?Nope. I do know a few people in their early twenties who live at home still, but they all work.Mainly they are saving to buy their own homes.That's one situation.More often, the situation is they can't afford to live on their own despite having jobs because the starting pay is so low, the raises (if there are any raises at all) are so pitiful and the opportunities to advance at their flat-growth, debt-laden employers are next to non-existent.?As far as getting roommates, given how anti-social (whether from being doped up on so many drugs or being the good little corporate drones they are) so many people are these days, it's not a good idea to shack up with just anyone (safety risks) if you have other options.I do not like what he said, but regardless--no, what you say on your own private time should be totally free from any scrutiny. Your company doesn't own you 24/7 and people who associate what someone says on their own personal time with the ethics of a company is a moron with the brain of a garden pea, on a GOOD day.I don't care if you work for the Jewish Family League and post that you don't believe the Holocaust happened, you STILL should be able to do that and keep your job--and anyone who disagrees should be thrown out of the country and deported to Cuba or North Korea for their communist beliefs. Free speech is the way it should be--and yes, I believe that free speech should mean freedom from the consequences of what you say as well, otherwise, it's not even free speech to start with.I can understand SOME exceptions for high-profile public positions, such as the CEO of Ford, especially if such a person is using an "official" site with their real name--okay, maybe then. But, say, take the case of Burger King and that "Proud Whopper" thing they were doing a couple of weeks ago. If I am working there, and I don't believe in that because I believe marriage is between a man & a woman, I understand that AT WORK I can't be mouthing off about that, and every customer who comes in must be treated with total respect regardless of their position on things. HOWEVER, on my Facebook ON MY TIME, I should be able to say "I don't agree with the 'Proud Whopper' campaign, I believe marriage is a man & a woman and right and wrong should be distinguished vs promoting deviant behavior according to God's word," and if someone who knows that I work at BK sees that and brings it in complaining, the reply should be "as long as they do their job here while they're at work and do not promote hate for the LGBT community?at work, they are free to say what they wish on their own time."?That ESPECIALLY should be the case if I do not disclose that I work at BK, have posts set to private, and don't friend any co-workers, but I think that even if I don't do that, it STILL shouldn't be up for scrutiny. People should understand and have the sense to realize that just because you work for such & such doesn't mean they own you and that you are an "extension" of them 24/7 in every single thing you do. That's just nuts to think that people have to act like they're "on the job" even when they're living their own life outside of work. I mean, really--I remember past jobs where I worked for AT&T and yet used Virgin Mobile instead of AT&T and told everyone I met to use Virgin Mobile instead, no one said "you work for AT&T and say that," they understood that just because I WORK there doesn't mean I have to promote their services on my own time, that's as separate as the beach and skiing. Where it started getting to be that people stopped understanding this, I don't know, but they're wrong--I don't care that social media exists now, they're STILL wrong.Now, it might be a good idea for me to keep such posts private just for my friends to see, and for my profile to not disclose that I work at BK, but even if it doesn't, I STILL don't think that should be up for scrutiny. Otherwise, we are living lives where we are 24/7 representatives of companies even when we're talking about working class people vs "high profile" people such as presidents and CEOs who are very public and round-the-clock representatives of their company, somewhat like Bill Gates was to Microsoft or Lee Iacocca was to Chrysler. Other than exceptions such as that, though, expecting people to be 24/7 representatives of their employer is pretty much downright slavery ownership if you ask me.Not only that, if they are fired for such, not only should there be redress for that, I'd go so far as to say Burger King should be shut down and forced out of business for trying to regulate what an employee of theirs says on their own personal time outside of work. I understand that someone working at BK who is anti-LGBT would have to suppress that at the workplace, but where in the world did the idea take hold that this person would have to suppress a public declaration of their opinion 24 hours a day every single day period, except somewhere where no one would hear except their friends in a bar etc? Their Facebook page is about THEM and their life OUTSIDE of work, and it should not be up for any scrutiny whatsoever.Anyone who disagrees, again, THEY should be deported to North Korea or Cuba.As it is, upon working, my intention is to NOT disclose where I work, but if someone who is a friend knows anyway, sees a post they don't like, and goes to my then boss pitching a fit--yes, they should be told "he's not our property to control 24/7, as long as he's professional at WORK, that is all that is our business," because it IS all that is their business.I'm about ready to bail out of my field. I have 7 years of experience in software QA and 9 years of experience as a SQL database developer.I am really struggling to find a job right now and it seems everyone is looking for purple squirrels and rejecting applicants who don't check every box on an impossibly long list of required skills. I don't know what else I can do with my skillset. I need a push in the right direction. Suggestions?I've been thinking about becoming a business analyst, but that's only because I have vast experience in IT and have worn the BA hat throughout my career. I wouldn't know how to get started in that tho.I wish I knew. I work with technology myself (instructional design/website designer/database etc)and these jobs just aren't out there. I've tried going back to marketing where I previously worked but the same problem. I don't want to depress you (or me)but many of the computer people I know are working jobs like fast food cook, retail etc.I worked in IT (data analyst and later a biz analyst and PM) for over 10 years and happily quit a couple years ago. Wave after wave of near-shoring, off-shoring and a tide of skilled yet cheap labor from overseas has made IT a very poorly-paid profession.Originally Posted by?sjdemak?You would more than likely have to start as a systems analyst, before the business role.That's fine. I've worked with countless BAs and I could do their job AND mine and not miss a beat. I just need to be able to convince someone else of that. I'm sick of developing and being "outcompeted" by H1Bs.I hate to say this, but the mover who just moved all my stuff said that he used to work in QA for 17 years.Likewise, my parent's neighbor used to do database stuff and got laid off and now works at Joe's Sporting Goods.Once you get past a certain age, I think it is hard to get hired in the computer industry if you don't already have a job. People aren't willing to pay for more than 5 years of experience, and they think your ability to learn new skills declines with age. Along with your willingness to take positions that pay substantially less. I did interviewing and worked with people who did hiring and the response was that if anyone had been unemployed more than 3-6 months, that there was something wrong with them.?But the advice to take contract gigs was good advice if you want to stay in the field. It would freshen up your resume with current employment.?If you are going to be a business analyst, it usually helps to have knowledge of the industry being analyzed. As a DB type, you might be suited to doing "big data" analytics which is a bit different than a garden variety business analyst. And you may want to get a little training, attend seminars, etc.?However, I am speaking as an IT person who quit a good paying (108k in a high cost area) but soul sucking and dead end configuration management job 2 years ago to go back to school for health care.?Have you done any career testing to see what other career fields might be suited to your personality?When I first read the title of this thread, I thought it was a fellow burnt out IT worker. After reading your post, I found out that it's not that you don't want to work in IT, it's that you can't find a job anymore.I'm up there in the pay scales, but can find 90K jobs all day long here in Seattle, which is pretty low for my level of skills and experience. Generally I am more picky about where I work so I hold out for the good gig that pays six figures. Last time I changed jobs I had several six figure offers within a few months. Oddly enough, I recently got a call for a gig in Texas for 130K, but it required me to relocate there, no telecommute. That killed it for me. Also, I've noticed IT seems to be seasonal, I get more responses some parts of the year than I do others.?That said, I think the industry has been killed by off shoring and importing East Indians for far less than what an American expects to make. That and this is a young mans game. Once you get to 40 or so, you really need to be in management. Otherwise you will be stuck getting emailed or called by recruiters daily for the 2-3 month contract gigs in BFEgypt with no benefits where they grind you up with 16+ hour days.SQL, SharePoint, Windows Server, IIS, AD, Hyper-V, VMware, Visual Studio. SSRS, SSIS, SSAS, PowerShell, I have all of that and then some...they just get an Indian to do it for half as much and they don't mind the 16 hour days.Heck, what's hot now is Project Management. Your average moron from Jack in the Box can get a PMP cert and make 90K+ doing nothing but riding the dev team. Most of these clowns only keep their job on the strength of the team that does the actual work. Ask any developer what they think of a PM, it's generally not very positive.Yes, there are plenty of job ads, but are they really serious about hiring? My experience is from a few years ago, but I've send out numerous resumes to companies all over the US and nothing but radio silence. Even for jobs I am overqualified for. It seems many companies put job ads there to keep up the impression they are growing and need more staff whereas that is really not the case. In addition, there are many that just collect resumes for the future if things would ever improve. Obviously, that 'if ever' never happened. Then there are the jobs that are listed by 10 different recruiters which give a hugely exaggerated picture of the number of jobs available.As for the companies who are still claiming a shortage. They are not serious about hiring in the first place like mentioned above or are just having ridiculous demands, like a two page list of requirements that nobody could ever fill. Or they are offering ridiculous salaries like $70k in Silicon Valley. Except for the few big companies like Apple or Microsoft, IT is completely dead in the US.Years ago, when offshoring was all the rage. Companies kept sending jobs overseas but ran into many issues. Now we simply bring the immigrants over through loopholes in our labor and immigration system employers are bringing thousands of immigrant workers.A few years ago, I've seen many just a dozen or so immigrant workers at various companies. Today, it has ballooned. At various companies, immigrant workers are now the majority of the office workers in some depts mainly in IT and accounting.Where is America heading? Are the floodgates about to be opened soon and companies will look to replace every worker with cheaper immigrant worker?I think the floodgates were long ago opened.The key is to fix the system.Americans are losing jobs to a visa program. Can it be fixed? - Welcome to modern America.Corporations own the government.The government no longer does what is best for the people.Don't expect this to be fixed. Ever.For more reasons than corporate influence on government... If government was not influenced by corporations in this way, then it would be financially prudent for them to move more and more operations abroad - basically anything that can be done more cost-efficiently abroad will tend toward being done abroad. In that context, the jobs you're talking about are lost regardless; it's just a matter of whether they're lost of visas or lost to off-shoring.?There is no solution because we live in the real world. Our nation's standard of living was greatly inflated for half a century on the strength of application of global power to foster excessive exploitation of other nations. Now those other nations are learning how to safeguard the value that they offer to us, and we're not so willing to be imperialists anymore. The decline of imperialism has a cost, and that cost is loss of structural support in the economy for the inflated standard of living. People don't seem inclined to accept that and factor it into every job. Instead, the powerful safeguard their own standard of living through "domestic imperialism" and therefore foster excessive exploitation of the less powerful in our society, as a substitute for the lost structural economic support once offered by the excessive exploitation of other nations.Originally Posted by?Lockdev?Welcome to modern America.Corporations own the government.The government no longer does what is best for the people.Don't expect this to be fixed. Ever.Yup.My department is 80% foreigners, mainly from India with a few token foreigners from other countries and a handful of token Americans. Even our business analysts are mainly foreigners. Our QA department is 100% foreign.Our IT department is also about 80% foreign.The only areas of this company where you see majority-American teams are HR, sales, marketing, and accounting. Anything having to do with data or technology is overwhelmingly foreign, with people from south Asia (India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Nepal/Sri Lanka) making up the vast majority of that.That's the U.S. side of the business. There are a few offices in Asia as well.There's no easy fix for sure but what Europe has done is raise taxes of doing business in order to subsidize the social programs necessary to keep the peace. I'm afraid in America it's not going to be so easy, at the pace we're heading right now, it won't be long for the corps to cut middle class jobs enough that a recession exemplifies the decline even more so. Say 6-18 months from now we're in a recession, once companies cut jobs they're not likely to hire Americans back when they hire again.Which is what I'm seeing that certain depts the jobs are completely gutted of Americans and replace with immigrants. Companies complain they can't find workers and need more visas, they're simply saying they can't find workers willing to take their low ball salaries.As an IT consultant, I'm pretty agile in terms of going job to job without any issue. What I'm seeing at so many clients is pretty severe that many American workers were setup to fail and replaced later with immigrants on work visas.This is becoming a serious issue for this election.Originally Posted by?vision33r?There's no easy fix for sure but what Europe has done is raise taxes of doing business in order to subsidize the social programs necessary to keep the peace. I'm afraid in America it's not going to be so easy, at the pace we're heading right now, it won't be long for the corps to cut middle class jobs enough that a recession exemplifies the decline even more so. Say 6-18 months from now we're in a recession, once companies cut jobs they're not likely to hire Americans back when they hire again.Which is what I'm seeing that certain depts the jobs are completely gutted of Americans and replace with immigrants. Companies complain they can't find workers and need more visas, they're simply saying they can't find workers willing to take their low ball salaries.As an IT consultant, I'm pretty agile in terms of going job to job without any issue. What I'm seeing at so many clients is pretty severe that many American workers were setup to fail and replaced later with immigrants on work visas.This is becoming a serious issue for this election.I don't think most Americans outside the STEM sector pay that much attention to it, and most of them have bought the "we need highly skilled people" line of BS. They really honestly do think that we lack the skillset to do these jobs ourselves. Even some Americans in IT have bought into the myth, or are OK with downward pressure on salaries and throwing Americans to the wolves if we can't "compete."?This is only ever going to get worse; it'll never end.Originally Posted by?Stagemomma?If you took the immigrants out of IT and the hospitals, they would cease to function. There just aren't enough native americans willing to do the work.If you don't want immigrants to work in the USA, don't patronize businesses that hire them.This is absolute regurgitated corporate bullcrap."No native Americans willing"In IT? Are you kidding?You obviously do not work in IT, or are one of the big bosses.I was a senior developer at an IT firm and we had plenty of Americans applying for IT jobs.Originally Posted by?ohhwanderlust?This is a major reason I'm voting for Bernie Sanders. He is the only candidate who's demonstrated any interest in protecting Americans' jobs.Quote:Originally Posted by?Uncle Bully?No he's not. Trump has as well. It's a big reason he wants to limit illegal immigration and H1B programs.Quote:Originally Posted by?Stagemomma?If you don't want immigrants to work in the USA, don't patronize businesses that hire them.Exactly right, Stagemomma!Both red and blue pols have blood on their hands with this one. Voting won't change this! We The People are the only ones who can change this. Vote with your wallet, and with your feet. Your ballot is impotent.?Originally Posted by?Stagemomma?Where are you seeing these immigrants at work? I live in a city with a high immigrant population. They do manual labor (construction, groundskeeping) or janitorial work or work for Walmart. They don't work in fast food, they don't fix my car, they don't work at the regular grocery stores. With the exception of the medical field, and IT, They certainly aren't doing higher end work that requires a degree.If you took the immigrants out of IT and the hospitals, they would cease to function. There just aren't enough native americans willing to do the work.If you don't want immigrants to work in the USA, don't patronize businesses that hire them.When they day comes that these immigrants replace blue collar workers abroad, then the country will have riots. Companies don't dare to eliminate non-skilled labor yet because it would cause chaos and discontent with the largest % of the population and riots happen. The reason the govt pay out food stamps and welfare checks is to keep the less fortunate away from crime.For high skill work, a typical college educated financial analyst, bio-med engineer, or IT worker could be making from $60k-200k and now they are being replaced by immigrant worker making only 1/4 of that. You probably don't care but these are the people who are working in payroll or the bank making sure your loans are processed or credit card bills are calculated correctly or the medicine the company is making is safe and meets standards.What I've seen is tons of job centers are bringing in hundreds and thousands of immigrant worker on work visas to perform office work. Usually these job sites are offsite and not connected to the main corporate HQ and located at some hub nearby transportation to make it easier immigrants to come by plane and get here.The company has to post the salary offered to H1Bs. Based on the postings I've seen, yes, the compensation is lower than how much a similarly qualified American would demand. Not by a humongous amount, but a significant percentage less.Originally Posted by?vision33r?When they day comes that these immigrants replace blue collar workers abroad, then the country will have riots. Companies don't dare to eliminate non-skilled labor yet because it would cause chaos and discontent with the largest % of the population and riots happen. The reason the govt pay out food stamps and welfare checks is to keep the less fortunate away from crime.Workers are being replaced at all levels by non-American workforce. Right from CEOs of some of the best companies in their respective fields (e.g. Google, PepsiCo, Microsoft, MasterCard) to white-collar jobs in medicine, IT, finance, and accounting. Hotel and motels, gas stations, newsstands, coffee shops and convenience stores are mostly owned by immigrants. Construction, landscaping and home improvement is again, mostly operated by immigrants.Quote:Originally Posted by?vision33r?For high skill work, a typical college educated financial analyst, bio-med engineer, or IT worker could be making from $60k-200k and now they are being replaced by immigrant worker making only 1/4 of that. You probably don't care but these are the people who are working in payroll or the bank making sure your loans are processed or credit card bills are calculated correctly or the medicine the company is making is safe and meets standards.1/4th? Really?!? Unless you are referring to what outsourced workers get paid in their home countries, your numbers are completely bogus. Where did you find an immigrant senior IT worker making 50k in US? Most fresh off the boat IT workers make far more than 50k on their first assignment. There is a fair chance a new H1B visa worker is paid 10-20% below the market rate but after 3-4 years of work in the US, they get paid exactly the same as their American counterparts.?Quote:Originally Posted by?vision33r?What I've seen is tons of job centers are bringing in hundreds and thousands of immigrant worker on work visas to perform office work. Usually these job sites are offsite and not connected to the main corporate HQ and located at some hub nearby transportation to make it easier immigrants to come by plane and get e by plane and work there? They commute by plane, everyday? That almost sounds like science fiction!??I have been working with Fortune 100 companies for the past 10+ years and am yet to see or hear of any company setting up a hub just for immigrant workers. Yes, if you are talking about companies creating hubs far away from the HQ for back-office work, that is true, but that is for all back-office workers (i.e. HR, IT, accounting, payroll, operations), not just for immigrants.?The total H1B visa quota for a year is 65,000. There is no way corporations can bring in "hundreds of thousands" of immigrant workers on work visa and make them work in transportation-connected-hubs.Originally Posted by?andywire?If it weren't for immigrants, many key industries in America would crumble. Americans avoid many of the jobs that immigrants are known to gravitate towards.Not true at all.Who do you think did (and still does) those jobs before we got flooded with both legal and illegal immigrants? Americans did them. Once both legal and illegal immigrants became a dime a dozen, sleazy employers quickly figured out that they could hire them and pay them far less than they pay Americans. They also knew that they could exploit illegal aliens by not providing safe working conditions or benefits.Many honest people who worked in the construction industries have lost their livelihoods due to illegal immigration. They found that they couldn't compete with sleazy companies who hired illegals and paid under the table.?For example, if you pay attention, you will see Americans cleaning hotel rooms---even in immigrant-heavy cities. If you peeked into the back of the house in restaurants, you will see Americans working there. In fact, for example, there is a chain restaurant conglomerate that uses E-verify. They have no problems finding both Americans and legal immigrants to take their jobs.Any business that knowingly hires illegal aliens or caters to them is a diseased business that needs to die.Originally Posted by?bUU?The company has to post the salary offered to H1Bs. Based on the postings I've seen, yes, the compensation is lower than how much a similarly qualified American would demand. Not by a humongous amount, but a significant percentage less.Not to mention they are basically hiring slaves.The worker doesn't like working 80 hours?Tough. Go back to India.That's the main reason employers like this. It removes a competitive work environment because the H1B holder HAS to work for that employer or return home.The IT world has a history of this. Just look at the collusion that went on between the big tech companies in Silicon Valley where they wouldn't hire each others workers.Originally Posted by?davenj08?1/4th? Really?!? Unless you are referring to what outsourced workers get paid in their home countries, your numbers are completely bogus. Where did you find an immigrant senior IT worker making 50k in US? Most fresh off the boat IT workers make far more than 50k on their first assignment. There is a fair chance a new H1B visa worker is paid 10-20% below the market rate but after 3-4 years of work in the US, they get paid exactly the same as their American counterparts.Yes, that's right. Through many of these corrupt agencies that brought immigrants here. Workers do not get paid directly. Companies pay these agencies directly since they sponsor the H1B1 worker to be here and they pay the workers much less than what the hiring company pays.?Quote:Originally Posted by?davenj08?Come by plane and work there? They commute by plane, everyday? That almost sounds like science fiction!??I have been working with Fortune 100 companies for the past 10+ years and am yet to see or hear of any company setting up a hub just for immigrant workers. Yes, if you are talking about companies creating hubs far away from the HQ for back-office work, that is true, but that is for all back-office workers (i.e. HR, IT, accounting, payroll, operations), not just for immigrants.?Again, these immigrants are brought over here by the hiring agencies that applied for their work visas. They get a stipend for living expenses and are paid much less than Americans. When their work visas expires they are rotated out and new replacements are brought in. So, there is a revolving door for them too.Quote:Originally Posted by?davenj08?The total H1B visa quota for a year is 65,000. There is no way corporations can bring in "hundreds of thousands" of immigrant workers on work visa and make them work in transportation-connected-hubs.This does not include immigrants over-staying on tourist visas as many employment agencies retains positions within a company and constantly rotate workers. Once their tourist visa expires, they are taken off site and they assign new worker to the job site for the same positions.As an IT Security consultant, I review account changes every month and I've seen immigrant workers being on-boarded and off-boarded almost weekly and they are simply rotating people for the same positions.I am reporting directly what I've seen and know Americans who are displaced by immigrant workers.Originally Posted by?andywire?Key word being "before". Welcome to 2016. Demographics aren't on our side.Meaning, what, exactly? That we should roll over, play dead and wave the white flag of surrender when it comes to illegals? Should we just throw open the borders? Are you saying that you are okay when it comes to Americans either seeing their wages depressed or being displaced by illegals? Besides, if your comment was referencing Hispanics, there is no such race as Hispanic. Hispanics range from dark-skinned blacks to fair-skinned blonde-haired and blue-eyed.Or, are you saying that Americans should give up trying for those jobs and just cede them to illegals? If so, what do you expect those Americans to do for a living?H1B's have nominal salaries in range of what Americans would be paid. But the big difference is that they tend to work twice as many hours for that same money. So they effectively get half as much per hour. That's the real reason companies are willing to hire them. For a manager to work his way up the corporate ranks, he needs to be a manager of a lot of workers. It's easier for him to convince his boss to allocate funds for hiring more H1B's because bosses see them as a bargain because they tend to work twice as many hours for the same money. It doesn't really matter if they have the skills they claim to have, because they aren't really hired for their skills, but more to make it easier for managers to work their way up. Middle and upper managers usually don't have the skills to be able to analyze how cost-effective the workers are, so they just look at how many hours they work per amount of pay.Originally Posted by?Stagemomma?If you took the immigrants out of IT and the hospitals, they would cease to function. There just aren't enough native americans willing to do the work.I disagree. The H1B program is mostly getting a constant flow of cheaper workers. There are workers already on US soil willing and able (with proper skills and education) to do the same job, but not for the low pay that the H1B are willing to work for. Most H1Bs will work for cheaper because they want to get their feet on US soil long enough to get a green card so they can stay forever(can't blame them, really).?It's all about companies wanting to pay lower wages. It has nothing to do with a low supply of skilled workers. This is the smoke and mirrors lie that has been told over and over - probably a lie started by lobbyists hired by the companies that make major profits by bringing in cheaper labor. Anyone that repeats this lie has been snowed long enough that they believe it. It's BS.Originally Posted by?sware2cod?It's all about companies wanting to pay lower wages. It has nothing to do with a low supply of skilled workers. This is the smoke and mirrors lie that has been told over and over - probably a lie started by lobbyists hired by the companies that make major profits by bringing in cheaper labor. Anyone that repeats this lie has been snowed long enough that they believe it. It's BS.It's easy to "prove" they actually get the same pay as American workers, because they tend to be salaried, not hourly. If they have the same salaries, how can we complain they provide lower-cost labor? But they do it by working twice as many hours for the same money. Salaried employees aren't paid by the hour, so it's an easy way to disguise their actual cost per hour.Originally Posted by?davenj08?The total H1B visa quota for a year is 65,000. There is no way corporations can bring in "hundreds of thousands" of immigrant workers on work visa and make them work in transportation-connected-hubs.It's a lot more than that. That is the yearly allotment for new H1Bs. Once they arrive they usually stay for 6 years but are only counted the 1st year. Then they get their green card and stay forever.But there are many additional IT workers coming in on visas that are different than H1B.?Do some google searches to get the actual counts. It was over 800k last time I researched a few months ago. This is over 800k on visa. Once they get their green card they are not counted and are equivalent to US workers as far as available to get most jobs.Originally Posted by?eok?It's easy to "prove" they actually get the same pay as American workers, because they tend to be salaried, not hourly.They are often contract workers which are hourly (not salary). At least this is what I see. Lots of the hourly jobs are advertised with very low rates. I see the rate and think WHAT - this is crazy low? It's a job ad that is waiting for an H1B to agree to work that cheap because they need a job badly else they get shipped out. And they will take the job for the lower rate. Sometimes 25% of the open jobs will have uber low hourly rates(much lower than market). then 75% of the jobs will be normal market rate.Originally Posted by?jambo101?Legal immigrants have as much right to vie for jobs as you do, they dont necessarily work for less money than you do,if they get a job and you dont maybe its because they are better qualified.Illegal immigrants may fit your "cheaper immigrant worker" criteriaOften the immigrant gets the job because it pays lower and the highly qualified people won't take the job for low pay. Especially true for someone on H1B who is about to lose their current job. Their choice is to take another job ASAP or move back to their home country. At that point, pay is not as important to them because their #1 priority is to stay in the US.Yes, they have the right to the job. Yes they are legal. I am not complaining that I cannot get a job. But we want to let the facts be placed on the table on how things are in the real world and how it impacts the tech job sector as a whole.?Some politicians want to increase the H1B allotment. The lie is that there are no qualified Americans(or green card holders since they don't need visa). Then the politicians give the mention about US missing math and science in school. My comments are to expose the lie.I work directly in the sector and have been in it for many years so I am not fooled by that lie. I clearly understand that companies are doing very well financially by being able to import workers that are willing to work for lower wages. And they need the constant flow of new H1Bs to fill the lower wage positions because after the existing H1Bs get their green cards, they are able to get pickier and take the higher paying jobs. At that point the company wants to get a new H1B that is happy to get into the US and, in turn, will work for lower wage for a short period of time.The people who are mentioning the long hours for the same wage are absolutely right. I've been in shops that had a significant number of H-1Bs from India and the hours these folks worked were insane. The US born staff worked the same hours, but many found other employment quickly after being frustrated with the hours and working conditions and left the company. For an H-1B, they must find another sponsor (read: expense) for their visa to change employers.?With as many visa workers as there are, you're going to get the range from brilliant to boneheaded, from a quality teammate down to people wanting to sabotage others, and everything in between. I've seen some brilliant visa workers who would be an asset to any company and others who I wonder how they get dressed in the morning. You can't just paint a broad brush that they're all incompetent.With that said, there's plenty of credence to the argument that there are Americans willing and able to do the jobs many of the H-1Bs are doing. An Indian guy was hired a year before me for the role I was performing, then I was hired, then like five more Americans were hired. If the argument for the H-1B is that companies can't find qualified Americans, why did they then hire a bunch of Americans after the Indian guy? I'm not blaming him - he needed a job out of college, he performed well, and it paid pretty decently for what the role was, but there was absolutely no need to sponsor him when many Americans have since held the role successfully. There wasn't a "skills gap" in this case, nor was he way underpaid - it added needless overhead and cost to the company through the visa paperwork, while shorting an American worker out of a job.Originally Posted by?bUU?The company has to post the salary offered to H1Bs. Based on the postings I've seen, yes, the compensation is lower than how much a similarly qualified American would demand. Not by a humongous amount, but a significant percentage less.It isn't so much that H1Bs get paid less as that they drive down the overall pay for everyone.Corporations bring in foreign workers for one reason only - they cost less. Forget the crap about not being able to find qualified workers. The way to scale back H1B workers is simple. Make them be more expensive to an employer. When it costs a corporation less to hire a qualified American than a foreigner, you'll be amazed at how easily they can find qualified Americans to fill all of the positions. I haven't really thought out how to make foreign workers more expensive but the first thing that comes to mind is through taxes. If employers have to pay 7.5% SSA on employees now, make that 25% for non-citizens. Or add some other tax or penalty. Or make the H1B a "lease" for which the employer has to pay $50k/yr or so.Originally Posted by?oceangaia?It isn't so much that H1Bs get paid less as that they drive down the overall pay for everyone.Corporations bring in foreign workers for one reason only - they cost less. Forget the crap about not being able to find qualified workers. The way to scale back H1B workers is simple. Make them be more expensive to an employer. When it costs a corporation less to hire a qualified American than a foreigner, you'll be amazed at how easily they can find qualified Americans to fill all of the positions. I haven't really thought out how to make foreign workers more expensive but the first thing that comes to mind is through taxes. If employers have to pay 7.5% SSA on employees now, make that 25% for non-citizens. Or add some other tax or penalty. Or make the H1B a "lease" for which the employer has to pay $50k/yr or so.Yup...as long as H1Bs are cheaper, the system will continue to be abused by American and foreign companies alike.Originally Posted by?jambo101?Legal immigrants have as much right to vie for jobs as you do, they dont necessarily work for less money than you do,if they get a job and you dont maybe its because they are better qualified.Illegal immigrants may fit your "cheaper immigrant worker" criteriaDepends how we define "legal" immigrants. The whole H1B1 loopholes technically legal but often exploited using loose interpretations and definition of the status.As someone has posted, the US allows only 65,000 H1B1s annually but we've exceeded that simply because the agencies can have temps come here on tourist visas and over-stay or loop-holes through the student study visa to get temp workers here to do work on the cheap.Since labor laws don't apply to these non-citizens, the temp agencies often collects 70% of what an American would make then turns around and only pays 1/4 of what they collect to pay these immigrants.?Most of these immigrants are happy just getting accepted so they can come here and join their family or relatives. Perhaps have a kid or a few then qualifies for extended visas if they have it on our soil.Gotta love our lose labor laws.Originally Posted by?oceangaia?It isn't so much that H1Bs get paid less as that they drive down the overall pay for everyone.Corporations bring in foreign workers for one reason only - they cost less. Forget the crap about not being able to find qualified workers. The way to scale back H1B workers is simple. Make them be more expensive to an employer. When it costs a corporation less to hire a qualified American than a foreigner, you'll be amazed at how easily they can find qualified Americans to fill all of the positions. I haven't really thought out how to make foreign workers more expensive but the first thing that comes to mind is through taxes. If employers have to pay 7.5% SSA on employees now, make that 25% for non-citizens. Or add some other tax or penalty. Or make the H1B a "lease" for which the employer has to pay $50k/yr or so.I don't disagree. H-1B should be used for an "employee of last resort." If for whatever reason the company has exhausted traditional hiring methods and still can't get qualified candidates, then they can go down that route. That seems to be the intent but was not how it worked out.Originally Posted by?vision33r?As someone has posted, the US allows only 65,000 H1B1s annually but we've exceeded that simply because the agencies can have temps come here on tourist visas and over-stay or loop-holes through the student study visa to get temp workers here to do work on the cheap.A quota of 65,000 does not mean there are only 65,000 here on a H1B at a given time. It means 65,000 new visas can be issued. Once you get the visa you can work here 6 years (initially 3 years with a renewal of 3 years). Plus there are 20,000 advanced degree visas exempt from the base quota.In the Great Lakes states we were hit hard with a deep recession around 2001, which created high unemployment for a lot of career people, who in turn took low paying jobs including fast food.This left very little jobs for college and teens.?Then the national/global meltdown of 2008, made everything even worse (it hasn't recovered for the most part yet)A college student wanting unpaid internship in your field of study? We don't want you, you're not experienced enough to work for free!You want to work low end jobs... You are too educated and/or over experienced...!Post 2008 and up, you are lucky if you can land a job in your teens, 20s and early 30s of any sort due to everyone older and more experienced working for the same price.Hell I am too over educated and over experienced for retail and other low end jobs, while being too under educated/under experienced for unpaid and paid internships which since 2011 require you to have 2+ years of industry experience, certifications (most which require you to be working to obtain them), GPA of 3.0 - 3.5 (which wasn't a problem for me) and other stupid stuff.What entry level stuff that does exist has asinine requirements such as 3-5+ industry work experience, certifications that can only be obtained via working, and other idiotic things such as knowing how to use enterprising software (which costs $5,000+ to buy and most companies won't let you learn it until 5+ years on the job), whatever software the company decides to use (which you don't encounter in everyday usage even in college), and/or the company's proprietary software (how can you expect people to have experience with it, if it is proprietary?)Oh and the former dean of my school had to end his internship program in 2011, because companies were outright refusing to hire college students when they could get people in their 40s and 50s with all the experiences working for the same price as college students.I was literally declined internships post 2011 because I didn't have enough "industry experience" or work experience despite having 3 internships previous and loads of actual IT projects under my belt.?So, now nearing the age of 30 in 9 weeks or so, I am unemployed graduate with a Masters in IT Management, double bachelors in Marketing and Information Systems, and an Sssociates in Business Administration with tons of software skills, project skills, 3 internships etc... yet unemployed because I'm of reasons ranging from not being perfect enough (was literally told this) to not enough "industry experience" to not knowing the software (I can't possible learn all the software in the world), and other asinine reasons...!I graduated from the masters program last July...My campus was right around the corner of the Chrysler HQ and within an hour of General Motors HQ, Ford HQ, Compuware HQ, and many other fortune 500 companies HQs.?Nearly every state has a glut of unemployed and/or underemployed professionals and trades people in their late 30s, 40s, and 50s.These people range from engineers of sorts to teachers to machinist, etc...?Though if you live on the West Coast, things are a lot better than the rest of the country.?Though with that said, we are still in a jobless recovery as in companies are still reluctant to ramp hiring and the number of people coming of age/graduating is greater than the number of jobs being created each month.Add that to the number of under and unemployed older people, leads to a job shortage.Also the U.S. unemployment numbers are calculated based on the number of jobs created and the number of people receiving unemployment benefits and job help from the state and federal agencies.If you aren't getting government benefits, you aren't counted in the unemployment numbers.It had been slowly going this way since the mid 1990s and the financial crisis of 2008 and the recession it caused sped up the movement towards unpaid internships.?It's no big secret that companies regularly abuse the internship definition, in order to save money.In most parts of the country there is a glut of experienced and educated people between 20-40, who were in their careers are were laid off or lost their job due to outsourcing, downsizing, company going out of business etc.. during the past 8 years, that they were willing to compete with college and high school students for these internships.?Add a slow shaky recovery that we are in to the mix, the job market hasn't rebounded to pre 2008 levels yet.This is due to companies being very conservative with hiring, due to the lack of economic activity on the consumer end.?Consumers on the other hand, haven't come roaring back with spending due to them facing employment insecurity.?Companies have been hell bent on cutting costs to the extreme to appease their shareholders by cutting the payrolls to the bare minimum in many cases.?The company who you are interviewing with has the right to determine what they perceive as "real" and/or "necessary".It is literally an employers market right now!Hell I've seen postings for internships asking for masters or higher.?As for abusing the internship abuse, the number of lawsuits and EEOC filings are on the rise from interns who are out right fighting them. Though if you do sue for they find out you filed the complaint with the EEOC and Department of Labor, you will probably be blacklisted in the industry and not get hired as a result (not legal, but the proof is on the person).?Yes right now young people in many countries including the U.S., are in the catch-22!They cannot get the necessary experience, because you don't have the experience to get the job.?Hell young people are still competing in many areas for low end jobs with their older counterparts and losing out.?McDonald's would rather hire a 40+ year old instead of teen or 20 something, because the 40+ year old will stay at the job longer if not permanently. Fast Food and retail are hell bent on reducing turn over.?Entry level is supposed to be entry level, but again with the glut of unemployed people across the board and companies not willing to take risks on unproven people it creates the paradox.?In my experience (including reading the job postings) 3-5+ of actual work experience on top of the necessary degrees.?-- As for college---As for college it depends on your degree, school, and professors.?It's literally the luck of the draw in many cases.?Since February of 2012, my history of job and internship searching, I have found that many if not most places ask for skills you haven't learned anywhere and don't want to train you.Like I've said in other threads, General Motors IT told me in the interview that they were only looking to hire people who could hit the ground running with no training for the job. But General Motors requires you to go to an 8 week course to learn GM history and culture!I applied at another small company which hit me up for the job as eLearning Developer. I would have been very good at the job cause it in my wheel house. But they told me, they were holding out for the PERFECT person, who knew their version of the softwares used and could do the job without training or adjustment.?WHY THE HELL DID YOU BOTHER TO HIT ME UP AFTER READING MY LINKEDIN PROFILE AND RESUME!(it still irks me).?This how nearly all of my interviews have gone...!I also went to an interview where the recruiter loved me, even though I explained it was damn near impossible to get the enterprise software experience while being a college student and working on a internship (the software is made by SAP, Oracle, some by Microsoft and analytics made by IBM) due to the sensitivity of the software to the business. Most people will never gain access to the software and only the use what is needed for their jobs. Oh it is also expensive to get ahold of that many medium sized companies and practically all small business never use any of it.?--As for your experience--It is very hard to get an IT job without the degree and sometimes the certifications, unless you know someone who is willing to get you the job.?In nearly all cases you need the degree and possibly certifications first just to be considered.In my dad's most recent case General Motors offered him an IT/engineering position in middle position (above standard employees but below high management).?When they found out he didn't complete college they withdrew the offer and told him it was due to the lack of the degree, despite my dad's 25+ years doing that type of job and software.Most industries require you to:A) be in related college program to get an internshipB) and graduate with said degree to be eligible for the entry level job.?It's IT, Marketing (all kinds), Accounting/Finance, Business, Engineering, etc...?As I've said, the U.S. and most developed economies are stuck in paradox, that is slowing the recovery.Businesses won't ramp up spending and hiring until consumers start spending at normal levels again.Consumers won't spend at normal levels again until businesses start ramping up hiring and raising wages.It should get better in the coming years, though it doesn't rectify the problem now!-- As for your Example--Apple is not a good example.?Most of Apple's work force is employed directly in U.S., be at their campus in Cupertino CA, retail, or building their computers. Hell even those building the glass for their devices and sensors are employed in the U.S.Apple by the end of 2016 will have all of its computers made in the U.S.Apple has talked about moving all of its products back to the U.S. for manufacturing and assembling.?Apple employs more Americans than all the other hardware makers in the PC and cell phone industries.?Though right now Foxconn has the contract to build iPhones and iPads.They also build Xboxs, PS4s, Nintendo products, most of the Android phones, etc...?Samsung, the biggest Android maker by far, is a better example.?Samsung has been busted in China and South Korea for essentially using the college internship system for unpaid labor.?Not to mention the horrible working conditions and long shifts.If I knew it was gonna be this hard, I would've stayed in college so that the privilege of being a currently enrolled student would make it possible for me to get an internship. Now I'm really in "no man's land" as far as career prospects go. I had been led to believe that a Math, Physics or Statistics student would have a reasonably easy time finding a job if they had basic programming knowledge. Every day I've been gone through every single listing in my state on Indeed, SimplyHired, my university's job board, LinkedIn, CareerBuilder, Monster, and Dice. I'm lucky if, on a given day, I can find a single listing that implies they might let a candidate with no industry experience try out. It gets tedious, especially because you have like 20 different recruiting agencies reposting the same position.And no, I'm not conveying a feeling of entitlement. I'm just saying that I'm surprised and I would go back and change things if I knew the job market was so difficult to enter. I would be better off if instead of going to college I had just gotten a desk job after high school and spent 4 yrs teaching myself programming. I have no real marketable skills. I accept that. I guess I kinda bought into the lie that majoring in a non-engineering STEM -- in my case Physics -- out of interest, while trying to If I knew it was gonna be this hard, I would've stayed in college so that the privilege of being a currently enrolled student would make it possible for me to get an internship. Now I'm really in "no man's land" as far as career prospects go. I had been led to believe that a Math, Physics or Statistics student would have a reasonably easy time finding a job if they had basic programming knowledge. Every day I've been gone through every single listing in my state on Indeed, SimplyHired, my university's job board, LinkedIn, CareerBuilder, Monster, and Dice. I'm lucky if, on a given day, I can find a single listing that implies they might let a candidate with no industry experience try out. It gets tedious, especially because you have like 20 different recruiting agencies reposting the same position.And no, I'm not conveying a feeling of entitlement. I'm just saying that I'm surprised and I would go back and change things if I knew the job market was so difficult to enter. I would be better off if instead of going to college I had just gotten a desk job after high school and spent 4 yrs teaching myself programming. I have no real marketable skills. I accept that. I guess I kinda bought into the lie that majoring in a non-engineering STEM -- in my case Physics -- out of interest, while trying to take myself a good base in computer science fundamentals by taking Java courses, linear optimization, numerical analysis, etc., would at least be a good setup for getting an entry-level position in a variety of roles.Originally Posted by?YAZ?If it's a temp to hire position, then make damn sure that the "temp time" status is clearly defined.So true. I've had a lot of experience with staffing agencies over a 32 year period, both good and bad. I've had a couple of assignments which were temp to permanent, and I was hired within the allotted time. Others where I was just strung along with empty promises of being hired and then unceremoniously let go when the project was over. Lately, now that I'd just be interested in very short term temporary assignments, there aren't any. I work for a school district and am off for 12 weeks during the summer and wanted such work during my time off, like filling in for employees' vacations. Customers don't seem to want you unless you can give long term or indefinite availability.?One place they sent me to interview was the local county career center (where they "assist" people who are unemployed). The staffing agency tested me throughly, then sent the results to the career center, where I then went to interview. It went very well, but they were very ambiguous about the length of the assignment, the hours per week (they said anywhere from 0 to 32), and they couldn't even descrobe the duties or when it was to start. Hint: the position was to be funded by the Obama stimulus. No, I did NOT make a face or roll my eyes when they told me that.?I got home, and there was a message that the career center wanted me in the next day to test. Okay, I went in, and they administered me almost the EXACT SAME TEST that the staffing agency had. The job never materialized anyway. I guess the Obama stimulus didn't come through with the funding.Yea, Skeff. ..these gov't career centers e.g., Workforce, Goodwill, all of them...they just test you, do all the crazy paperwork and then you never get ANY job via them. They play the "let's fill that quota" game. That's why they string you along. They get paid to B.S. with us but we waste time and money..and get our hopes up for nothing.Originally Posted by?andywire?What type of work?In many cases, it can be quite easy. They seem to care about one thing above all else... How cheap is your time?exactly that's why I said the only people who should use temp agencies arerecent college grads who live at homeunemployed people no longer receiving UCI was called in for an interview and got a job due to a resume I had posted on Careerbuilder several years ago. I was contacted by a company last year for an interview either because of my resume on Careerbuilder or Monster, but the pay was too low and I already had a job making the same wage. I have no clue if employers even look at resumes on Indeed. No one has contacted me after seeing my resume on Indeed. Other than that, Indeed only compiles jobs posted by other websites and sometimes the jobs are already closed by the time I get an email notification.I only get calls from insurance companies from careerbuilder. I used to be an agent but am no longer licensed, but the job experience is within the 10 years on my resume. I don't hear back from companies I apply to, only from ins.cos. trolling for newbie agents. They don't even bother to read that I no longer am licensed, which was on the resume. I finally had to take the word "insurance" off the resume, just to stop the spam.I do get emails and a few phone calls for insurance agent jobs even though there is not one word in my resume that would indicate that I would qualify for this type of job.How many insurance agents are needed, anyway? It seems everyone I know is receiving calls and emails about insurance jobs. Is this a high turnover field?The most interesting call I received from Careerbuilder was to interview for the position of Petsmart manager. And I have absolutely no retail experience.?I do like Careerbuilder though, I found two jobs there as well as a headhunter found me for a job that was a perfect job for my skill set.I have had most of my past job interviews through CB, resulting in 3 jobs hired over the years.My fav site is Indeed as they pull from multiple job sites including CB.I found my current job through CareerBuilder. However, I had to go through a staffing agency to get the job. Another job I have an offer for a third party recruiter found my resume on Monster and contacted me. Both are good jobs working with well known organizations. But, I agree there are alot of bad job leads on job boards these days and, unfortunately, third party recruiters have completely taken over with all their job postings. You really have to sift through the crap to find the real/decent job postings.This morning, I attended a job fair that was sponsored by our local chamber of commerce. There was one manufacturing company there that was looking to hire about 150 people to work at their local plant, and there were about 30 additional booths set up. I was only there for about an hour, and there were easily 500 people inside the room where it was being held, and there were at least another 500 waiting to get inside!5 or 6 of the booths were occupied by degree mills (University of Phoenix, DeVry, Intellitec, etc.), another 5 were occupied by temp agencies, 10 were occupied by nursing homes and hospitals, and 3 were occupied by call centers. The rest of them were occupied by legitimate companies, but only 2 or 3 of them were actually looking to hire people.In the last year and a half, I've gone to 5 job fairs with hopes of landing a job or internship, but every time, I've walked out feeling pretty disappointed. I know times are tough, but why do organizations even bother with setting up these job fairs when no one is hiring?It's probably hit or miss with most of these job fairs. I've only been to a few, but those that I did attend were exactly as you described. There were primarily degree mills and sales jobs to sift through. The primary employers who were present were insurance companies, auto dealers, some banks, military, and government. The most legit positions were advertised by the government (INS and border patrol).Originally Posted by?goyanks57?I know times are tough, but why do organizations even bother with setting up these job fairs when no one is hiring?A lot of times, they're just looking to collect resumes. The degree mills you pointed out are hoping you'll come there and sign up. But yeah, job fairs are a waste of time, especially since most let you register online and submit your resume there. Do you really expect to make a lasting impression at a job fair, one that makes you stand out from the hundreds of other people showing up?Job fairs are such a waste of time. You get spammed in person. No thanks, I'll stick with getting spam in my e-mail inbox.Ive had success with them. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I felt like cattle... Having to line up so that some HR assistant who you are probably smarter than can grace you with their presence... It's not fun.Good points by everyone. People always say that job fairs are a good way to network and prospect, but how do you make yourself stand out from a hundred or more people who give out resumes?I've never been to one, but it does sound pretty weak.They should organize them so not only are there legitimate employers who are actively seeking applicants, but the jobs are all really cool jobs like beer taster, porn star, midget wrestler, chimney sweep, alligator catcher, CEO, skyscraper crane operator, or maybe military except limited to only cool roles like the guy who hangs out the helicopter door clutching the machine gun that fires wildly at the hapless enemies below while giggling maniacally then gives a thumbs up at the camera and says with a distinct Southern accent "that's the way we do it here in echo company!" etc.?That's the job fair for me man, that's how all job fairs should be, and if Obama really is jobs in America he needs to make it happen.Originally Posted by?goyanks57?This morning, I attended a job fair that was sponsored by our local chamber of commerce. There was one manufacturing company there that was looking to hire about 150 people to work at their local plant, and there were about 30 additional booths set up. I was only there for about an hour, and there were easily 500 people inside the room where it was being held, and there were at least another 500 waiting to get inside!5 or 6 of the booths were occupied by degree mills (University of Phoenix, DeVry, Intellitec, etc.), another 5 were occupied by temp agencies, 10 were occupied by nursing homes and hospitals, and 3 were occupied by call centers. The rest of them were occupied by legitimate companies, but only 2 or 3 of them were actually looking to hire people.In the last year and a half, I've gone to 5 job fairs with hopes of landing a job or internship, but every time, I've walked out feeling pretty disappointed. I know times are tough, but why do organizations even bother with setting up these job fairs when no one is hiring?Yes job fairs are a waste of time. No need to go to a place where a bunch of other unemployed are looking for jobs since the key is to seperate yourself from them not stand in line with them. Please avoid job fairs.I don't know what it will take for people to realize that in a decade from now if this is unmitigated. You will have many towns with double-digit % of foreign immigrants. Sure, they haven't shown up at many inner parts of the US but at coastal cities and big job site cities it is pretty evident who is buying and renting land.?I'm sure this is all good for the economy but the by product of all this is that we have a limit supply of moderate difficulty jobs as fewer are created and the jobs that are created require usually something new, higher skills, or more difficulty. Many jobs that don't require advance new skills are eliminated almost entirely as technology eliminates them.There will be a substantial amount of people stuck in long term unemployment and need benefits in order to live.Big Companies will get even more profitable and they will hire less and less Americans.Originally Posted by?Weichert?Exactly how do you know that?I was thinking the exact same thing.There seems to be a misconception that "immigrants work harder than Americans".You sure it isn't the fact that employers have been forcefully extorting employees because of the rules surrounding the H1B visa program?If you had the choice to work another 20 hours this week, or get deported, what would you pick?I have no problem with the H1B program, but if employers use it, they should be forced to pay the immigrant employee more than the highest paid worker of the same level and they should have the ability to work for someone else, just like an American citizen.It sounds crazy, but it actually creates a more level playing field for the American worker.I wouldn't go back and get a second Master's, unless it's fully funded? If you are paying for it or taking out loans for that, you don't NEED IT.?This is one of the worse job markets in history, so knowing that, unless you are nailed to your current territory, you have to be open to work (and move) anywhere, domestically and internationally. Don't just limit yourself to your current territory, it's time to start applying in other states and even outside of the US as well.?With this current job market, job stability is pretty much gone, thus you are going to have to be working (more than likely) at one job in one location for 5 years, then another job in another location for 6, then another in another location for 5 years, repeat, repeat, repeat until you are too old and ready to retire.?Of course with this situation one has to ask, "When in the heck do I buy a house?" Well, I believe for many of us buying a house just isn't going to be in the playbook. You only buy a house when you will STAY PUT for at least 10 - 15 years in one area, with the lack of job stability today, that might be completely impossible, requiring you to be forever "mobile".Carol Stream suffers, like many towns with a majority of moderate income residents, from the increasing polarization of the US into those that have top flight education and earn commensurate incomes and those with no real concept of productive work that exist on the largess of handouts with fewer and fewer options for those in-between.In case you hadn't noticed... It is the "middle class" that produces the wealth in this country... which is why we're broke. There is simply ever less of it.The highly educated feed off what the middle class produces - since they (highly educated) rarely produce wealth - and the politicians siphon it off to buy the votes of the dependency class, all the while trying to find ways to buy the votes of the middle class, too, to make them into a European style dependency class (the reason for Obamacare, for instance)?The complaint that a town doesn't cater to the indulgent class is quite the comment. America runs on "boring" , and wishing it to not be boring will mean even faster economic decay.I don't think "catering to the indulgent class" enters the picture, and I am not even sure what that means.I do know that when there were more solidly educated machinsts and technicians working in some of the more modern industrial facilities in Carol Stream the town was not all that economically different than areas that may have had more white collar workers nearby.As the pool of technicians and skilled mechanicallly oriented workers dried up the spaces that once did manufacturer precision goods have largely shifted toward warehouses and distribution of good made elsewhere. In my view the most prudent plan is to improve the quality of education at all levels and re-invest in the kinds of skill building that would the area attractive to manufacturers that have a need to produce higher value goods.Didn't Carol Stream once have a more white-collar populace when it was first getting built out in the 1950's??One problem that a lot of the older post-war suburbs have is that the 1950's housing stock is just not popular with modern home buyers. Buyers may put up with a tacky 1,300 square foot ranch in a place like Hinsdale because of the other amenities the town has, but take away the top-notch schools, metra, and prestige, and who is going to buy that house if they can afford better?I don't think it was ever as white collar as Wheaton or Elmhurst. There were moderni-ish factories / assembly facilities there through the 90's, some still exist. The difference is that the higher skill stuff has fallen way off-- used to see lots of help wanted ads for engineers , tool makers, prototype assemblers. The shift toward warehouse stuff has driven down wages...I am currently in a job search because of a toxic work environment. I am really tired of companies who are offering such low salaries it's a joke. is EVERY job really an entry level job? That is ALL I see out there... but they really want someone with experience, but don't want to pay. And why does every job have a list of things they want you to do, it's like a list of 20 things... are they kidding? This says they need to hire 2 people for that job but are too cheap. Or there are part time positions, but they want you to do 8 hours worth of work in 4 hours. Or I am being offered salaries that I was making back in the late 90s. What is going on out there? It's aggravating.I am currently in a job search because of a toxic work environment. I am really tired of companies who are offering such low salaries it's a joke. is EVERY job really an entry level job? That is ALL I see out there... but they really want someone with experience, but don't want to pay. And why does every job have a list of things they want you to do, it's like a list of 20 things... are they kidding? This says they need to hire 2 people for that job but are too cheap. Or there are part time positions, but they want you to do 8 hours worth of work in 4 hours. Or I am being offered salaries that I was making back in the late 90s. What is going on out there? It's aggravating.I don't think they really want to hire anyone, but if the perfect person should drop in their lap, they would make an exception.If they had an actual urgent need for labor, requirements and pay would be more realistic.Originally Posted by?AndyAMG?Job seekers, I feel you.I used to be a bootstrapper, the kind of guy who ragged on poor people for making bad decisions and being unemployed. Now, I'm seeing things differently.I quit a lucrative job as a Prototype engineer in a machine shop in December and have been looking for a job every since. My boss withheld bonuses and lied about our record profits then essentially told me he didn't give a crap about all I had done for him for 4 years which just pissed me off. Its a stressful, high attention to detail, crap environment with tight deadlines and I rocked it. He never had anything good to say and it became taxing on my soul. So I just walked out one day.I put my resume out there and within hours sometimes I have a call. So I had not changed my boot strapping was as a matter of fact it made me feel invincible like "ha ha getting a job is just so easy!"Well 17 interviews and 3 last minute rejections, and 5 places I felt a bad vibe from the second I parked in the parking lot. I have changed my mind.?Now, I could have pandered and lied and done all the things I did to get my first job out of the military but I just don't have the energy anymore and I just cant hide my contempt for all the pany A said something that just made me light up like Lewis Black in Inside Out.I feel for you all.?For the record I did find an okay job for some income, but it sucks and I'm applying elsewhere already.Why is everything so bleh these days? It's like we go through 16 hours of consciousness per day/122 hours per week but less than 20 hours of it could be considered pleasurable. For me 90 hours a week is bleh, 20 hours is fun or pleasurable and 12 hours is me getting unhappy or feeling irritated.To put it bluntly most companies are run by people with large egos, tiny brains, and incredible greed. It's nice to see more people are where I was emotionally about 12 to 15 months ago."Corporations own the government." Yeah BO said when he was trying to get elected that he was going to do something about so much of these Visa issues and not as qualified, foreign workers taking American jobs...blah blah blah. He did nothing. Because the corporations that want this labor paid for him to get elected of course. They all say anything to get elected.The corporations do not need people over here any more anyway, they just set up shops in Eastern Europe (Poland is current IT hotspot) and India and Malaysia... wherever the current cheap labor is, they will set up there. Even the HR departments of corporations are going over to India now. Everything they can send out and avoid hiring American labor - they will find a way. It sure seems like the big corporations hate the American worker. They wish we would go away, we are standing in the way of their profits.Originally Posted by?gardener34?It sure seems like the big corporations hate the American worker. They wish we would go away, we are standing in the way of their profits.They don't hate the American worker, but somewhere along the line the idea that corporations have a responsibility also to their employees and the public got lost. Now it's all about satisfying Wall Street analysts from quarter to quarter.?If a company's 3rd quarter profits are up 45% from last year (which sounds great, right?), but Wall Street analysts expected a 50% rise, the stock price drops like a stone.Take into account also how much executive compensation is given in stock and stock options now (so that big salary numbers that outraged the public are smaller) and execs are now motivated to think SOLELY in terms of the stock price.Employees are now regarded solely as a cost center. There was a time when IT and other knowledge work was different, but now it isn't. So it is a race to the bottom -- to the cheapest country. The problem with this is it adds additional overhead.For example: The work that I do involves using a data entry screen builder. Sometimes I need a programmer to do something the tool can't do. I used to be able to walk over to my programmer, or call him/her, and explain what I needed. If s/he needed clarification, we could talk again. Now that a lot of the work has been outsourced to companies that in turn offshore, I have to talk to my US contact at the outsourcer, who then talks to the manager in India, who then talks to the programmer who is also in India. I have NO direct contact with the programmer, and the programmer is basically a coder who works to spec and doesn't ask questions. And this is supposed to save money?This is a very controversial topic, but the impact of immigration on the labor force is profound.?Quote:Relative to other states, Florida ranked second in the nation in employment growth among 16- to 65-year-olds over the last 14 years, but most of these gains have gone to immigrant workers (legal and illegal).?From the first quarter of 2000 to the first quarter of 2014, 52 percent of the net increase in employment among Florida's working-age (16 to 65) population has gone to immigrants (legal and illegal), even though they accounted for only 33 percent of population growth.?Since the jobs recovery began in 2010, 64 percent of net employment growth among the state's working-age population has gone to immigrants.?Even though the state ranked high in employment growth, Florida still ranked 34th in 2014 in terms of the labor force participation of its native-born population (16 to 65).?Among young natives 16 to 29 years of age, Florida ranked 35th in labor force participation.?In 2000, two million working-age natives were not working (unemployed or out of the labor market entirely); by 2014 it was nearly 3.3 million — a 62 percent increase.?Perhaps most striking, through the first quarter of this year, the labor force participation rate of natives shows no improvement in Florida, even after the jobs recovery began in 2010.?If the employment rate of natives (16 to 65) in the first quarter of 2014 were what it was in 2000, 768,000 more natives would be working.?New immigrants took jobs across Florida's labor market, including lower-skilled jobs such as maintenance and construction, middle-skilled jobs such as sales and office support, and higher-skilled jobs such as management and health care professions.?While agriculture gets a lot of attention in the state, it employs a tiny share of immigrant workers — less than 1 percent.?The supply of potential workers in Florida is enormous: half a million native-born college graduates were not working in the first quarter of 2014, as were one million with some college and 1.4 million with no more than a high school education.?The labor force participation of black, Hispanic, young, and less-educated workers in Florida show the biggest declines.Who Got the Jobs in Florida? | Center for Immigration StudiesIs this possibly because the high number of retired people living in Florida? If there aren't enough young people to replace them, they would need immigrant labor.Canada is now allowing less Visas to enter the country, perhaps the US should do the same.I can tell you that one reason immigrants are taking jobs in Florida is because they work harder and are very industrious.?Just an example from my own experience (though others have told me the same thing.) We needed a fence for our house. I called at least 6 companies (the standard more well-known "locals" who have been in business for a while). The responses I received were (1) very expensive quotes for a short fence on one side of the property, (2) excuses as to why this job would take weeks to months due to being too busy to do it for a while (3) complaints about some new kind of nails that were not available.My general impression was they could care less about my business. While speaking with a public works rep about a permit, she referred me to a fence company. It was run by a Mexican immigrant and staffed by Mexicans. I called the company--he came to the property the same day and gave me a reasonable price quote. Said they could come and do it on Saturday (the other companies did not work weekends). They came and were done in two hours--did a great job. Needless to say, when I needed other work done I had similar experiences. The immigrants (not all Mexican--others were Eastern European and Indian) were always available to work weekends and could get the job done sooner.These guys did not work for a pittance either, but their prices were usually better, they were faster and they did a great job.Originally Posted by?MJ7?Canada is now allowing less Visas to enter the country, perhaps the US should do the same.Canada's birth rate is ~1.7. Why would we wish that??Replacement is 2.1. You can do the math.Quote:Originally Posted by?kassiopeia?Is this possibly because the high number of retired people living in Florida? If there aren't enough young people to replace them, they would need immigrant labor.This is?exactly?it. This stuff isn't conspiracy; it is math. Florida's working population is abysmal. They need immigrants.Originally Posted by?Opin_Yunated?Canada's birth rate is ~1.7. Why would we wish that??Replacement is 2.1. You can do the math.This is?exactly?it. This stuff isn't conspiracy; it is math. Florida's working population is abysmal. They need immigrants.Their pay rates are more abysmal from what I hear. That is why young American working folks are not going there to fill the jobs. The same problem throughout most of the South.If there were desirable FTE jobs there that paid decent I'd be there yesterday.Originally Posted by?Enigma777?I can tell you that one reason immigrants are taking jobs in Florida is because they work harder and are very industrious.?Just an example from my own experience (though others have told me the same thing.) We needed a fence for our house. I called at least 6 companies (the standard more well-known "locals" who have been in business for a while). The responses I received were (1) very expensive quotes for a short fence on one side of the property, (2) excuses as to why this job would take weeks to months due to being too busy to do it for a while (3) complaints about some new kind of nails that were not available.My general impression was they could care less about my business. While speaking with a public works rep about a permit, she referred me to a fence company. It was run by a Mexican immigrant and staffed by Mexicans. I called the company--he came to the property the same day and gave me a reasonable price quote. Said they could come and do it on Saturday (the other companies did not work weekends). They came and were done in two hours--did a great job. Needless to say, when I needed other work done I had similar experiences. The immigrants (not all Mexican--others were Eastern European and Indian) were always available to work weekends and could get the job done sooner.These guys did not work for a pittance either, but their prices were usually better, they were faster and they did a great job.For every anecdote you throw out, someone can match you with a negative one. We had 2 or 3 Mexican landscape crews work on our house in Orlando - all of them disappeared without any notice forcing us to scramble to get a new service. All of them at one time or another had to be reminded of what the weekly work entailed. And there was no language barrier as we had someone in the house fluent in Spanish. Cheaper is not always better.Originally Posted by?Opin_Yunated?This is?exactly?it. This stuff isn't conspiracy; it is math. Florida's working population is abysmal. They need immigrants.There are plenty of young Americans sitting on their arses feeding their sense of entitlement. If they had any initiative, the immigrants could all go home.Originally Posted by?leftee?There are plenty of young Americans sitting on their arses feeding their sense of entitlement. If they had any initiative, the immigrants could all go home.VERY TRUE. People placing the blame on immigrants when they are the least to blame.Who are to blame?You can blame, as mentioned, those who have no drive.Blame the company CEOs that are willing to pay such low wages in order to save a dollar (and further increase the disproportion between CEO to wage workers) and those who do hire illegals.Blame those that are unwilling to take low paying jobs because they think they are worth more.. and would thus rather be unemployed (and then blaming an immigrant if they do end up with the position.)?This article irks me because it immediately feeds into the illegal immigrant mind set, and as mentioned, to low pay or menial labor jobs.I came to Florida, legally, when I was a couple of months old and have been a permanent resident. My parents have owned their own business for the past 30 years. I became a naturalized citizen when I was 18.I am college educated (degree in computer science) and work as a software developer for the medical industry.Reading this article, I would fall under the immigrant profile even though, except not being in this country for the first 2 months of my life, I am no less American than anyone else.Heck, I follow politics more than anyone I know, and beat most people I know in American history trivia.But since I was born in another country, and with that, being classified as an immigrant, it presents it almost as if I am stealing someones job.Originally Posted by?leftee?There are plenty of young Americans sitting on their arses feeding their sense of entitlement. If they had any initiative, the immigrants could all go home.Yea, bull.If Florida had something to offer I'd consider moving there.?You guys have no idea what the hell you are talking about. We are facing declining population. We are discussing a state with the largest retirement community in the country.?I lived in South Floridistan for three loooong and painful years. The job market is a wasteland. It's all service related McJob work, so of course immigrants make up a huge part of the work force. There is no tech or white collar work, relatively speaking. What little that is there is managed by those who couldn't make it up north. If you can run a pill mill or have found something you are good at scamming, that is probably your best bet to survive as a non-retiree in Florida?Originally Posted by?Opin_Yunated?Yea, bull.If Florida had something to offer I'd consider moving there.?You guys have no idea what the hell you are talking about. We are facing declining population. We are discussing a state with the largest retirement community in the country.?Declining population in Florida ? Florida is about to surpass New York for the 3rd most populous state in the country.I know many American citizens who will work ANY job. ANY. I know people with master's degrees who are doing babysitting jobs right now because that is all the work they can get.My wife is from Florida. Scuttlebutt is that jobs that will put you into the economic middle class are not plentiful and there are quite a few uneducated people in the state who are in and out of work (immigrant or otherwise).Thunderkat59 is right that most of the positions available are basically dead end jobs that don't require any skill and you are very liable to be treated poorly since you are easily replaceable.Also, its Florida. You woul have a hard time naming half a dozen things that go on there that aren't messed up.Originally Posted by?Enigma777?I can tell you that one reason immigrants are taking jobs in Florida is because they work harder and are very industrious.?Just an example from my own experience (though others have told me the same thing.) We needed a fence for our house. I called at least 6 companies (the standard more well-known "locals" who have been in business for a while). The responses I received were (1) very expensive quotes for a short fence on one side of the property, (2) excuses as to why this job would take weeks to months due to being too busy to do it for a while (3) complaints about some new kind of nails that were not available.My general impression was they could care less about my business. While speaking with a public works rep about a permit, she referred me to a fence company. It was run by a Mexican immigrant and staffed by Mexicans. I called the company--he came to the property the same day and gave me a reasonable price quote. Said they could come and do it on Saturday (the other companies did not work weekends). They came and were done in two hours--did a great job. Needless to say, when I needed other work done I had similar experiences. The immigrants (not all Mexican--others were Eastern European and Indian) were always available to work weekends and could get the job done sooner.These guys did not work for a pittance either, but their prices were usually better, they were faster and they did a great job.Nope, nopity nope, nope. I see these immigrants day in and day out here in Fl working in construction/repair. Theyre CHEAPER labor, not better. Theyre willing to work for minimum wage (if theyre legal) because they can pile 5 families into a home to reduce their COL. Theyre just as lazy as anyone else, and they can get away with it because theyre half the price of an American worker. Drive past any of these construction sites and youll see them sitting around, drinking, talking, smoking just like everyone else. They don't work harder, theyre simply cheaper.Originally Posted by?mdovell?But that also goes for people that go across the country as well. The costs of living vary dramatically. I have family in the midwest and the sheer size of their house would cost 2x as much as it does in Boston. We are not talking nickels an dimes here we're talking quite an amount. I cannot even begin to tell you have many come from down south here for work and go back (trades usually). The higher cost of living means higher wages here and even with the cost of traveling they still make out.I can't blame h1b's because frankly no one has real accurate stats on them...or illegals for that matter. Illegals are not doing that much in the way of professional work and furthermore there are limits. Let's say some state gives out drivers licenses. OK fine but no insurance company is going to insure that person so if they get pulled over they don't have insurance which is naturally illegal in most of the country.It is also hard to be against something of which that they are hired. Illegals come here for work so if they are not hired eventually they do not arrive.Lots of hardworking middle class trades people are losing their jobs or have had their wages stagnated because of illegals. But your fine with that since those aren't professional jobs. As long as its someone else's life your good with it.?Originally Posted by?Emigrations?I don't know the job market of FL in depth, but I think there are some rational explanations for this.1) The rate of immigration has increased. Not only are there Cubans, but now more Europeans, South, Central Americans are pouring in. With more immigration comes a higher percentage of immigrants holding jobs.2) The jobs that are being generated are low end, like maids, housekeepers, tourist workers, busboys, etc, where good Engish may not be necessary and immigrants work for cheap.3) The population of FL is aging with more retirees from elsewhere coming in. Thus, there are more people and needs to serve, yet few native born workers to serve the retirees. The immigrants fill the gap.Here we go again. THEY ARE JUST NOT DOING THE JOBS AMERICANS DON'T WANT TO DO!!!!!!Plenty of Good skilled blue collar jobs 50K plus are going to ILLEGALS. Plus each bus loads compete with the first bus load so wages are stagnate because of it!!! I'm sure if your job was on the line your would think different!!?Okies. So what happens to the CEO bonuses and the companies themselves when very few, other than the employed, but low wage gathering, immigants can possibly afford to buy their goods and services?Im sorry, but this doesnt seem like a sustainable approach.Originally Posted by?Nighteyes?Nope, I wouldn't. This is actual living proof of the "laws of profit." If some workers are willing to do the same jobs, and produce the same quantity and quality as other workers,?for less money-- then guess who gets the jobs? This is also "the Law of Conservatism" at its finest.Want to protect your job? Then?DON'T?vote Conservative!!! If you're Blue Collar, and contrary to all-too-popular (and quite erroneous) belief, Conservative politicians are NOT your friend; quite the opposite in fact.But hey, don't believe me. Do your own homework. Take a close, hard look at the actual voting records of Conservatives. Pay particular attention to how said voting records?actually impactAmerica's blue-collar workers. Then take a look at how these same voting records impact corporate profitability. Keep a barf-bag handy, because you're likely to need it.--?Nighteyes?(Blue Collar roots; White Collar since February of 1969; neither deaf nor dumb nor blind)Conservative has nothing to do with it. I would have no problem losing my job against anyone that was playing by the same rules as I, that's capitalism. If someone wants to play by the rules and come to this county legally that's cool. When I have to complete with someone that doesn't carry the same overhead on taxes and regulations and labor, then we have a problem. That's the Democratic machine looking to get votes at the expense of the american workers!!!!!Originally Posted by?BradPiff?I always wondered when exactly the myth of "they're doing the jobs americans don't want to do" startedThe correct phrase would be, "Theyre doing the jobs Americans wont do at that pay rate." I wont re-shingle roofs all day in Florida for minimum wage. However someone who left a Country of cartel violence, starvation, lower standard of living, and a family back home still under those conditions that needs money....will re-shingle roofs for minimum wage. Is that honorable? Nope, its just abuse of the desperate.Originally Posted by?Nighteyes?So complain to your Senators and Congressional Representatives.No, wait. If you're in Florida they're Conservatives, and Conservatives always side with Big Business.Oops........No lets complain to the obozo in the white house that doesn't want to defend our borders. He took an oathto defend our country and uphold our laws. 0 for two, wonder how his golf swing is doing?Originally Posted by?el_marto?Well are Florida locals worth employing? Does anyone with any real valuable skill in anything have to worry about immigrants tckin' thur jurrbs? If the answer is no, then I say shut up and work on developing yourself because you don't deserve to get a job just because you grew up close to where it's being offered.That is not at all what is going on and you clearly have no understanding of the economics of employment. Its all about cheap labor costs. Businesses have always tried to lower their single largest expense, wages. First it was slavery, then it was immigrants, then it was illegal immigrants, now its outsourcing/offshoring. With a little automation thrown in there.Our lowest paying job requires 3 years experience. I have seen job postings at local companies requiring as much as 15 years experience.No, I don't remember those days because thats all its been since I graduated. I've been through 4 professional internships, 3 of them paid. Overall I've been employed for almost 2 years in my chosen career. But that doesn't equate to the required 2-3 years of full time experience that any entry level job in city planning requires these days.?Now I'm buying foreclosures to rent out and working my way through grad school. It doesn't bother me because I will find my way and be successful regardless.Originally Posted by?JSnFla?please. the sky isnt falling. plenty of young people and recent grads are doing incredibly well. sure its a difficult time for some with no exp but there are still many young people finding jobs and carving their way towards success. currently, what i see as true, is that the days of just being very avg, going to an avg to below avg school, choosing a joke major and getting avg grades and then just wandering into a great corporate career due to your youthful smile and fun personality, those days are long gone and may not return. Those that are focused, make good decisions and work hard will find successI said the bottom. I didn't say a recent grad coming in making 50k a year. Hell, you're lucky to earn 25k.Clearly you didn't read my post. And I don't know who this plenty is, 50% un/deremployment isn't exactly plenty.I see this all time. A restaurant chain in my area, which isn't even what I consider high end fine dining wants 2-5 years experience for any position, including busser and host.Seriously - 5 years experience to clean tables or ask, "Can I get you something to drink?"Originally Posted by?JSnFla?please. the sky isnt falling. plenty of young people and recent grads are doing incredibly well. sure its a difficult time for some with no exp but there are still many young people finding jobs and carving their way towards success. currently, what i see as true, is that the days of just being very avg, going to an avg to below avg school, choosing a joke major and getting avg grades and then just wandering into a great corporate career due to your youthful smile and fun personality, those days are long gone and may not return. Those that are focused, make good decisions and work hard will find successNo they won't. 80% of new college grads aren't getting jobs after graduation. 50% of 18-30 year olds are unemployed or underemployed. I swear you people live in a bubble.Originally Posted by?Fiyero?No they won't. 80% of new college grads aren't getting jobs after graduation. 50% of 18-30 year olds are unemployed or underemployed. I swear you people live in a bubble.I don't believe either of those numbers.?Also, the cream of the crop, with well rounded college expirences...ie good grades, internships, networking, and leadership positions are still finding work.Originally Posted by?JSnFla?please. the sky isnt falling. plenty of young people and recent grads are doing incredibly well. sure its a difficult time for some with no exp but there are still many young people finding jobs and carving their way towards success. currently, what i see as true, is that the days of just being very avg, going to an avg to below avg school, choosing a joke major and getting avg grades and then just wandering into a great corporate career due to your youthful smile and fun personality, those days are long gone and may not return. Those that are focused, make good decisions and work hard will find successAlthough I tend to agree with this post, I also agree with this one:Quote:Originally Posted by?Fiyero?No they won't. 80% of new college grads aren't getting jobs after graduation. 50% of 18-30 year olds are unemployed or underemployed. I swear you people live in a bubble.I think JSnFla has over estimated the number of kids in good jobs after graduation, because clearly last week's article told a different story, plus it is regional I believe. I agree with the fact that being average isn't going to cut it anymore.I feel that if you're going to college just to go to college, then stay home. If I had a child graduating from HS this June, I would tell them to get any job, supermarket, food service, retail etc and try it out for sometime, live at home. Then, do two years at the local community college and then possibly go get a degree knowing better what you would like to do. This is unless of course my child was exceptional and could possibly get in on a scholarship.The big problem I also see is HS guidance counselors and the media and whatever else, selling the "college experience." While I do think that the college experience is great, it is not worth $100K in student loan debt and a $30K a year job doing whatever.Well this is very convenient now, for employers. Less training work for them as they get to hire people to do more and pay them less, now that the employee/employer scales have tipped in their favor. Now jobhunters have to put in more work to compete with more people for shots at interviews, to increase the odds of their application, especially the online ones, being blown off. But keep your chins up.Originally Posted by?Thatsright19?I don't believe either of those numbers.?Also, the cream of the crop, with well rounded college expirences...ie good grades, internships, networking, and leadership positions are still finding work.The problem is, out of 100 grads, 10 are "cream of the crop" and if there are 40 jobs, all 40 jobs want those 10 people. Then half the time the "cream of the crop" turns out to be the bottom of the barrel when it comes to ethics. And a whole department suffers 1. from overworking current staff because no one is "good enough" and 2. When they do hire a "cream of the cropper" they come in with a sense of entitlement, expectation of 2 hour lunches and spend half the day hooked up to their ipods because they have an MBA.Quote:Originally Posted by?Megadell?Remember?There is over reliance on "experience"- Fair enough if its a very narrow niche of expertise that takes some real know how, and expertise - but very often were talking about entry level jobs - Where its really just about experience of the company, process, systems, tools - that is learnable on the job.?Every job is different, every company is different, 3 years experience in one job with a similar sounding title doesn't mean you can use the tools, understand all the processes - Almost no one can come in and hit the ground running from day one - it always takes time despite pretence of trying to let on you have everything figured out in your first month or week.I'd much rather have someone who is less experienced but smarter, good qualifications, intelligent, highly motivated - than some person with lots of "experience". Plus many "experienced" people have learn't from the experience in corporate outfits how to do as little work as possible, say the right things, bluff their way through, deflect blame, backstab, play the system, leave at 5 pm everyday - thats the kind of experience you get in corporate outfits.It comes down to HR, recruiters, managers just wanting to cover their own ass - so if things go wrong, or the new guy gets fired - they can turn around and say he had 5 years previous "experience" in this field.Oscar Wilde: “Experience is another word for failure.”What's crazy is employers will leave positions unfilled because they can't find someone overqualified to work an entry level job for what's low even for that position.The old way of doing things, the way most of us know how to find jobs, just doesn't work for 2012 for a few reasons.When I started working at 18-22 yrs. it was just summers and breaks at the same place my dad worked.After college I found jobs in the paper. I send resumes to companies or places I thought matched my skills and interests. I tried different fields.I wanted an internship while going to grad school and I asked for it and got it for a semester.I knew what worked and didn't. I always had a job or found one in a?few?months.Now you have stupid HR morons writing books and complicating things with their nonsense about how to interview and how to dress 101 and how not to **** your head right but nod left or you will blow the interview.Too many people overly afraid these days and overly analyzing things. I guess all the bad hires and greed has everyone scared and they want to back up why they hired so and so.The bottom line is that the companies are not in any rush while job seekers are. Many organizations feel they can play by any rules since they hold the cards. There have always been jerks hiring people. Now it's just multiplied because they can take advantage of the job pool.Originally Posted by?Thatsright19?I don't believe either of those numbers.?Also, the cream of the crop, with well rounded college expirences...ie good grades, internships, networking, and leadership positions are still finding work.1 in 2 new graduates are jobless or underemployed - Yahoo! NewsPeople just do not want to understand this is the new normal. Their are long term structural changes to the economy. Low wage service jobs is the future for most people. That is where most of the job growth is going to be not living wages jobs. Kids have got out of college 3 or 4 years ago still working at Sears. Because we are not creating enough jobs for anyone. This is not a new problem it has been going on for years. I know young nurses who can not find full time work. My uncle who was both an engineer and in IT is now in sales. He makes less then 1/3 of what he use to make. They ask for all this experience why? Because they can get it and it is going to be that way for many years to come.Originally Posted by?collegeguy35?People just do not want to understand this is the new normal. Their are long term structural changes to the economy. Low wage service jobs is the future for most people. That is where most of the job growth is going to be not living wages jobs. Kids have got out of college 3 or 4 years ago still working at Sears. Because we are not creating enough jobs for anyone. This is not a new problem it has been going on for years. I know young nurses who can not find full time work. My uncle who was both an engineer and in IT is now in sales. He makes less then 1/3 of what he use to make. They ask for all this experience why? Because they can get it and it is going to be that way for many years to come.This.?More people are working for $8-10 an hour regardless of their education or skill level. By exporting manufacturing jobs that were held by average people, we are making more of the country like Detroit and Baltimore.?I hate it when smug morons on this forum love to tout how the "above average" people are doing fine. Of course most people who are above average are doing fine. But most Americans are average. I guess it helps these idiots sleep at night knowing that the literal one percent of the population who works as engineers is doing okay and making a living wage while 40%+ of the American population works for poverty wages while at least another 25-30% of the population is unemployed.?8-10 bucks an hours doesn't afford you any of that. I don't care where you live.?8 bucks an hour is about 16k a year,10 bucks is about 20.In both cases this is BEFORE taxes come into play.But yes, I think employers in America should pay a living wage, that should be the cost of doing business in America. I know that sounds crazy to some, but it's ridiculous that you can work full time in this country and still live in poverty. If it weren't for the Gov subsidizing employers wages via section 8 housing, food stamps, and public health care, you'd really get to see the problem. Wouldn't the minimum wage be 10.63 today if it'd been pinned to inflation when it was created??We can't compete in a global market because when it comes to manufacturing, which is where we can't compete, well, no one in America can support themselves on $3/hr. And when it comes to the service jobs here which our economy seems to be based on, they are primarily low paying. All the schooling in the world won't change the fact that America would fall apart if we REALLY tried to compete with China and India and all these other countries jobs are being sent to. Because the only variable is the cost of labor. You could work 24 hours a day on china wages and not be able to pay your rent. That's why we can't compete. A dollar goes much further in the east than the west.For most jobs, an employer is only as good as their training. Unless you're going to school for a professional degree, nothing you learn in a class room in ANY way transfer to the workplace. And how many doctors, engineers, and lawyers does one country need? We could get every american a professional degree, but there wouldn't be any jobs for them, there wouldn't be any money to hire them.Not everyone can be an engineer, doctor, chemist, etc. There have to be enough decent paying jobs in administration, support, customer/client services, etc. for a bulk of the population. There's no way around this. Well, one way would be to have a Guaranteed Minimum Income. However, we don't seem to have reached the point where people are seriously considering ways to address questions like "What if there aren't enough paying jobs to go around?" and "Are we really going to let people starve, go without medical care, or housing because there aren't enough jobs to go around?"Besides, people saying that it is a waste of money and time to major in something without a very high demand instead of something like computer sciences such as themselves, would be in pretty bad shape if everyone HAD chosen to study software development. Candidates would be a dime a dozen; not offered $57,000 with a BS and three months of internship experience. Interestingly enough, we'll probably start to see wage stagnation and pay decline in STEM careers as the next group of university students flock to STEM in hopes of avoiding the unemployment and underemployment that their siblings who majored in business, liberal arts, and social sciences experienced after 2008. People who are doing great now but have less than five years of experience in their STEM career are going to feel it. In less than 10 years these fields will be saturated with people competing for the "7+ years of experience" jobs that seem so difficult to fill now. Unfortunately getting a few years of experience won't save you when there are millions of people looking to train for and enter any kind of field that pays well and has a high demand for workers.The "need experience to get experience" situation is a real problem.Part of it also comes down to absurdly narrow experience requirements.For example, in days gone by, if a car company wanted an engineer to design some components (transmissions, etc.) they'd first accept anyone with the appropriate degree and some *useful* experience in the design world, such as designing any other highly-precise mechanical parts, moving components, etc. If you had transmission experience, great, but it was not required. Nowdays, the engineer would need to have years of experience performing that exact same task, often with the exact same CAD tools, as well as possibly other tools that might even be company specific. Well, that rules out a huge number of people who could fill the position (with on-the-job training) and often results in companies whining about a "lack of qualified people."?If they can't find workers, they should try to broaden their scope and go back the way things used to be done - hire people with the needed legal credentials (the degree) and clear ability, and mold them into what you need. This would quickly reduce the unemployment rate, stimulate demand, and fill in the supposed "skill gap" that is making it hard to find workers. But it would also mean the company executives might have to hire some people and spend some money vs. just buying more mansions and yachts, so it won't happen... unreal!It is stupid. I struggled with that when I graduated too. You're overqualified or underexperienced for everything. It's even worse when the kids think a Master's degree will help. You just have to get lucky and find someone that will let you start at the bottom.Originally Posted by?silenthelpreturns?1. The online job system is a flopUnless you are using your university's online job database.That is how I found my first job after graduating from college pre-Apocalypse. That is also how I got 11 of the 12 interviews I went on after being laid off a couple of years ago.Monster, Craigslist, and Career Builder are monumental wastes of time. You may as well throw your resume into a ditch and hope someone looks at it.In this Orwellian, increasingly jobless world we live in, something I've figured out is that companies have many reasons to post job listings other than to try and fill the position listed -- which might not be an open position or a position that exists at all.?Why companies put up job listings:?Gives investors or potential clients confidence that the company is doing well.Gives clients and potential clients the impression that they're working with top-notch teams. This is one reason why companies put asburd/impossible qualifications in their listings (e.g. 4.0 GPA, 10+ yrs experience with SQL Server 2014, etc.) when their actual employees in those positions don't nearly have those qualifications.Scares current employees into working harder when they see their position or a closely related one posted online. It's a reminder that they're always in danger of being replaced.That'd certainly explain a lot.?Also they often post these requirements to be able to hire cheap H1B workers from abroad. They can demonstrate that they've "tried" to hire locally, but couldn't find anyone.Just remember folks, unless youre willing to work at Mexican wage rates.....Carrier in Indy, UTEC in Huntington to move units to Mexico, costing 2,100 jobs1400 Employees Find out Their Getting Laid Off | Sure NewsYes that media site misspelled theyre, but I posted it because it included a video of the employees finding out the bad news.I'd have been chanting "Burn the Plant! Burn the plant!"Originally Posted by?Disgustedman?I'd have been chanting "Burn the Plant! Burn the plant!"I think some of them were at that point.Seriously. Unemployment is like 5.5 percent. This new era of job anxiety is just getting pathetic.?Notice any new crappy coworkers? Employers are scraping the bottom. They are running out of the quality help. Believe it or not, but it might even be ok to ask for a raise!?I really think the major media outlets have cause mass brain damage among the ranks of U.S. workers.The U6 rate is right around 11% which includes those who would like to find full time work, unlike the official U3 number which only includes those actively looking, so the job market is not nearly as good as our government would like yo to believe.The issue is until employment is better with better jobs being produced, people will think they are one bad quarter from being laid off like in 2008/9 or the possibility of being bought out.People are still worried because another recession is right around the corner...So how do you define a good job? Mine is a consistent job paying around 40-50k and those aren't uncommon. The entry jobs are around 25-30k which seem reasonable to me for the COL here.Originally Posted by?andywire?Seriously. Unemployment is like 5.5 percent. This new era of job anxiety is just getting pathetic.?Notice any new crappy coworkers??Employers are scraping the bottom. They are running out of the quality help. Believe it or not, but it might even be ok to ask for a raise!?I really think the major media outlets have cause mass brain damage among the ranks of U.S. workers.Im not worried as much as lack of jobs these days as I am with how much more work is getting thrown on to people with no incentives or increased wages, perks etc. The companies are just working their personnel to death these days will LITTLE incentive provided while the "higher ups" are taking in a crapload w/ companies making record profits yet NONE of that money is filtering below.?Greed and lack of monitoring of these of unscrupulous management treating their workforce like field hands is more troubling.Originally Posted by?sware2cod?EVERYONE? Not EVERYONE is worried. Lots of people aren't worried.Of course I don't mean everyone. But still, I think the majority are too worked up.The way I see it, economic cycles are to be expected. Nothing I can do to stop a recession. No sense getting worked up over what I cannot control. So I focus on what I can control... Saving money, picking the right investments, and maintaining a skillset that is relevant in today's workforce. Outside of that, I have little control. We elect idiots for that.Quote:Originally Posted by?jwiley?The U6 rate is right around 11% which includes those who would like to find full time work, unlike the official U3 number which only includes those actively looking, so the job market is not nearly as good as our government would like yo to believe.That's not all that bad. 6-7% would be ideal for U6. Give it another year.My greater concern is the overabundance of crap jobs that pay crap wages. These have accounted for the bulk of new job creation.I think some people think they will get job security if they work cheap enough. No, they will just have that much less to sustain them when the next recession arrives.Dumb thread considering OP is usually sensible.First, we all know the 5.5% or whatever number of the day is heavily massaged and in favor of the government's agenda. That's not the real rate, especially not in hard hit communities.Second, the jobs which are available are typically of low paying and of poor quality. If you're in a junk job and are seeking another junk job, that's probably fine. If you've got a good job, it's hard to recover.Originally Posted by?andywire?Of course I don't mean everyone. But still, I think the majority are too worked up.The way I see it, economic cycles are to be expected. Nothing I can do to stop a recession. No sense getting worked up over what I cannot control. So I focus on what I can control... Saving money, picking the right investments, and maintaining a skillset that is relevant in today's workforce. Outside of that, I have little control. We elect idiots for that.I agree with keeping up with skillsets up to a point. Remember, the jobs from the last recession and those that went away prior to computerization and offshoring are likely not to comeback until the companies can pay 1/16th the peanut they use to pay. Companies decided to run lean and cut say one to two employees that they kept if they didn't axe departments or bought out from failing businesses. That means there will likely be too many workers looking for work than jobs available especially when you have?Quote:Originally Posted by?andywire?That's not all that bad. 6-7% would be ideal for U6. Give it another year.Not likely. It was 11% since about October after falling from 13.5% from January 2014. I don't see the economy doubling that rate this year. Two years, sure it is possible but not one.?Current U-6 Unemployment Rate | Quote:Originally Posted by?andywire?My greater concern is the overabundance of crap jobs that pay crap wages. These have accounted for the bulk of new job creation.But here's the thing, the lower wages are what MOST companies are offering for most jobs. There are indeed more and more better paying jobs popping up but more people still are lagging behind economically because they can't get better paying jobs even if they have a job.?Quote:Originally Posted by?andywire?I think some people think they will get job security if they work cheap enough. No, they will just have that much less to sustain them when the next recession arrives.In a way, it does give a little more security. If you are given the opportunity to stay in the company but take a pay cut or be laid off and test the market, do you stick with the security at the discount or test the market and hope that you can get at least a little more than the going offers right now.Even though I have a stable job it's going to take maybe 4-5 years to get used to being employed after experiencing so many layoffs in such a short period of time. Some people at my current job have been there since 2009 and I have been laid off 4 times since then which still has me concerned sometimes.Originally Posted by?FBJ?Even though I have a stable job it's going to take maybe 4-5 years to get used to being employed after experiencing so many layoffs in such a short period of time. Some people at my current job have been there since 2009 and I have been laid off 4 times since then which still has me concerned sometimes.hm, I wonder about that, I haven't been laid off, but I've job hopped a few times since the crash (I graduated after crash so I didn't have a job before then). I don't have a sense of "doom" over my employment, I always felt like if I needed to, I could just hop into another job. I don't know if it is because of my field or because I never experienced being laid off but the people around me that are my age give off the same impression to me. Again I am in healthcare and my friends too (I don't have many contact outside of healthcare) so this might not be the bigger impression on economy.I'm just bringing this up to contrast the people that graduated after the crash and have jobs vs the people who actually went through it and lost their jobs. Since the people who were in school until around 2010 were pretty insulated from the bad economy, and then upon graduating with the economy picking up, it seems like jobs were easy to get and paid okay too. We aren't living richly but we make enough to live middle class.Namely do i have rose glasses or do you have gray glasses based on when you entered work force relative to the crash.Originally Posted by?eyeb?hm, I wonder about that, I haven't been laid off, but I've job hopped a few times since the crash (I graduated after crash so I didn't have a job before then). I don't have a sense of "doom" over my employment, I always felt like if I needed to, I could just hop into another job. I don't know if it is because of my field or because I never experienced being laid off but the people around me that are my age give off the same impression to me. Again I am in healthcare and my friends too (I don't have many contact outside of healthcare) so this might not be the bigger impression on economy.I'm just bringing this up to contrast the people that graduated after the crash and have jobs vs the people who actually went through it and lost their jobs. Since the people who were in school until around 2010 were pretty insulated from the bad economy, and then upon graduating with the economy picking up, it seems like jobs were easy to get and paid okay too. We aren't living richly but we make enough to live middle class.Namely do i have rose glasses or do you have gray glasses based on when you entered work force relative to the crashPlus being laid off in 2015 is very scary because you only have a total of six months to find a job which is not enough time. Mainly because sometimes you may not get called for a interview until the third month which means you will have to find a job in only three months. When i was laid off in 2011 it was a comforting feeling to know I had a year to find a job similar to my previous or better but that is not the case today.Originally Posted by?eyeb?hm, I wonder about that, I haven't been laid off, but I've job hopped a few times since the crash (I graduated after crash so I didn't have a job before then). I don't have a sense of "doom" over my employment, I always felt like if I needed to, I could just hop into another job. I don't know if it is because of my field or because I never experienced being laid off but the people around me that are my age give off the same impression to me. Again I am in healthcare and my friends too (I don't have many contact outside of healthcare) so this might not be the bigger impression on economy.I'm just bringing this up to contrast the people that graduated after the crash and have jobs vs the people who actually went through it and lost their jobs. Since the people who were in school until around 2010 were pretty insulated from the bad economy, and then upon graduating with the economy picking up, it seems like jobs were easy to get and paid okay too. We aren't living richly but we make enough to live middle class.Namely do i have rose glasses or do you have gray glasses based on when you entered work force relative to the crashSpeaking for myself, I entered the job market in the 70's when jobs were pretty scarce. Fortunately, I found work in a law office fairly quickly. I am currently 61, going to be 62 in June. Was let go in 2012 after 13 years with the company who eliminated 17 jobs, including mine. It took me almost 17 months to find another job, not because I lacked skill sets, but what worked against me was my age, and progressively, companies did not want to hire those who were unemployed. I was fortunate enough to receive a generous severance package, and was let go when the Federal emergency unemployment program was still active. That ended in December 2013, and I still was not able to find a job.I am currently working in a small office making significantly less than I was, but it's enough to keep us going.?So, if I worry about my job, particularly at my age, I have good reason. Early retirement is out of the question, and I want to keep working.Originally Posted by?andywire?Seriously. Unemployment is like 5.5 percent. This new era of job anxiety is just getting pathetic.?Notice any new crappy coworkers? Employers are scraping the bottom. They are running out of the quality help. Believe it or not, but it might even be ok to ask for a raise!?I really think the major media outlets have cause mass brain damage among the ranks of U.S. workers.1) Many good jobs were permanently replaced by crappy, low paying jobs.?2) We are at the end of a 4th longest bull market. The recession is inevitable, let's hope it's not as bad as the last one.3) The working conditions deteriorated during recession, employers are now expecting people to do far more with less and it's not changing with "good" times.4) People are scarred by the last recession that was the worst in the past 60 years.Originally Posted by?andywire?That's not all that bad. 6-7% would be ideal for U6. Give it another year.My greater concern is the overabundance of crap jobs that pay crap wages. These have accounted for the bulk of new job creation.I think some people think they will get job security if they work cheap enough. No, they will just have that much less to sustain them when the next recession arrives.As I have posted many times in the past, the economy usually builds out of a recession through small business growth and creation. That is one of the reasons I do not see the country as truly having come out of the recession.?The whole growth in my area has come from the energy sector, mainly crude oil, but with the falling prices of crude a few weeks ago it has hurt the entire area as guys are laid off and struggling to pay bills.Not only do you see plenty of people posting that you should always go with the larger corporations on this very board many small businesses are having trouble even getting licensing and permits to grow their business. Add to that the limited availability of funds to grow businesses and you are just asking for trouble.?You see it is easy for a company like Intuit to outsource everything to other countries, but it is much harder for the mom and pop computer repair businesses.Originally Posted by?FBJ?Plus being laid off in 2015 is very scary because you only have a total of six months to find a job which is not enough time. Mainly because sometimes you may not get called for a interview until the third month which means you will have to find a job in only three months. When i was laid off in 2011 it was a comforting feeling to know I had a year to find a job similar to my previous or better but that is not the case today.Yeah I was without a job for about a month and a half after landing a seasonal job. I put in for a job in late February and got the interview in mid-April, a month after landing a job (I was able to work around the time for the interview that it didn't effect my existing job.) These days you can apply and indeed wait 3 months.Quote:Originally Posted by?eyeb?Wait where are you getting those time frames? Do you base the need to find a job on how long the unemployment check is?A LOT of anecdotal evidence but the six months is the typical time frame that employers use to determine if a worker was unemployed for too long. Could you get a job after the six months, yes it possible but far less likely. Once one becomes the long-term unemployed, it is not easy to shake that.Originally Posted by?andywire?Seriously. Unemployment is like 5.5 percent. This new era of job anxiety is just getting pathetic.?Notice any new crappy coworkers? Employers are scraping the bottom. They are running out of the quality help. Believe it or not, but it might even be ok to ask for a raise!?I really think the major media outlets have cause mass brain damage among the ranks of U.S. workers.Seriously, you need to stop believe everything you're fed. The unemployment rate is much higher, those who no longer collect benefits(states have now cut way back on the number of weeks) aren't counted, those who have given up looking for work aren't counted.I know two people who have been laid off in the last two months, one after more than 20 years at the same job, the other after 5 years.Besides you were on here not that long ago with a thread that your job was in danger. Guess that changed, and so it can get that way again huh?This economy is still very shaky.Originally Posted by?seain dublin?Seriously, you need to stop believe everything you're fed. The unemployment rate is much higher, those who no longer collect benefits(states have now cut way back on the number of weeks) aren't counted, those who have given up looking for work aren't counted.I know two people who have been laid off in the last two months, one after more than 20 years at the same job, the other after 5 years.Besides you were on here not that long ago with a thread that your job was in danger. Guess that changed, and so it can get that way again huh?This economy is still very shaky.Are you sure on the unemployment rate? The unemployment rate while not perfect isn't swayed by those who do or don't get on unemployment. Those who aren't counted are part-time (not by choice) and those not actively looking for work. I'm not going to claim that the unemployment rate can't be manipulated but it isn't as easily done as many would think it is.FYI, I agree with the rest of your points.People still get fired or laid off, and it's harder for them to get a new job afterward. Of course people are still worried.I think it's folly to pretend the job market has "recovered" in any way, shape, or form, when people still struggle to find better-paying jobs. It's hard to get experience in the first place, as we're still dealing with the Catch-22 of "need the job to get experience...need experience to get the job."Originally Posted by?FBJ?Plus being laid off in 2015 is very scary because you only have a total of six months to find a job which is not enough time. Mainly because sometimes you may not get called for a interview until the third month which means you will have to find a job in only three months. When i was laid off in 2011 it was a comforting feeling to know I had a year to find a job similar to my previous or better but that is not the case today.I'm not sure this is the norm. I have been laid off a couple times in the last year or so. I have been able to find jobs within mere days. I think the whole layoff thing is starting to bite companies in the behind. They are having trouble convincing people to leave jobs. They are having trouble motivating people. Also, it takes time for workers to reach maximum productivity in a new environment.?Companies are losing their competitive edge on the small business front due to lack of loyalty and talent.Quote:Originally Posted by?Ummagumma?2) We are at the end of a 4th longest bull market. The recession is inevitable, let's hope it's not as bad as the last one.We are long due for a correction. But where else do I put my money? The bank isn't offering any competition here, which is why the stock market keeps inflating. There must be a major catalyst... Something more than just wild cards. Something like a real estate collapse, which we are not seeing. We are only seeing unemployment falling, job growth, etc. Some wage growth is long overdue.?Also, many of our largest bull markets occurred during recessions. Actually, the majority of them if I'm not mistaken. Recessions provide extraordinary opportunities for wealth creation. Most people just don't capitalize properly, and misallocate funds during boom times.?Quote:Originally Posted by?jwiley?As I have posted many times in the past, the economy usually builds out of a recession through small business growth and creation. That is one of the reasons I do not see the country as truly having come out of the recession.?The whole growth in my area has come from the energy sector, mainly crude oil, but with the falling prices of crude a few weeks ago it has hurt the entire area as guys are laid off and struggling to pay bills.?Not only do you see plenty of people posting that you should always go with the larger corporations on this very board many small businesses are having trouble even getting licensing and permits to grow their business. Add to that the limited availability of funds to grow businesses and you are just asking for trouble.?You see it is easy for a company like Intuit to outsource everything to other countries, but it is much harder for the mom and pop computer repair businesses.America is exporting a crap ton these days. Most people don't notice it, but it's true. That's a great sign.?No question, the crash in commodities will cause pain around the globe. Not the first time, and won't be the last. Australia is readjusting just the same. Just be glad you don't live out there.... They are nowhere near as economically diverse as the United States. With cheaper commodities, it will be cheaper to build and manufacture, but also cheaper to import goods into the U.S.. We'll have to wait to see how that plays out here.But here's the thing... There has ALWAYS been SOMETHING on the horizon. You didn't have 24/7 media info overload 30 years ago. Today, we traumatize ourselves with negativity. How easy do you think it would be to brainwash a population into submission? Very easy when the media is monopolized. 90% of the population in this country gets their news from perhaps 3 major media outlets.Quote:Originally Posted by?seain dublin?Seriously, you need to stop believe everything you're fed. The unemployment rate is much higher, those who no longer collect benefits(states have now cut way back on the number of weeks) aren't counted, those who have given up looking for work aren't counted.I know two people who have been laid off in the last two months, one after more than 20 years at the same job, the other after 5 years.Besides you were on here not that long ago with a thread that your job was in danger. Guess that changed, and so it can get that way again huh?This economy is still very shaky.The economy was never static. That's why we do benefit from having an extremely diverse economy.?And really, most people cannot even define the economy, and have no idea how to properly gauge it. Most people think of the stock market as an accurate gauge, which is beyond absurd. Some of our largest bull markets have occurred under very tumultuous times...?I have been laid off several times. I have also quit several jobs. There are an abundance of jobs, which is why it's time for some wage growth... Though I think most Americans lack the fortitude to ask for a raise, or higher pay. They'd rather believe the fantasy that lower wages somehow equate to more job security. Nope, just a race to the bottom, which further perpetuates itself. That's how economies collapse.@vintage_girl, but what you said contradicts itself, it might be hard to find what you call "better-paying" jobs, but the economy does have "jobs". You can refuse to acknowledge there are low paying jobs, but they are there. Sure, they aren't good for the economy, but the jobs are still coming back slowly. You wanting to narrow down what type of jobs that come back before saying the economy is better doesn't hold water because everyone always wants a "better" job. For the experience work, maybe things have changed but my first high school job where I made sandwiches at a deli, I was able to get some inventory experience/office experience/ordering experience just by offering to help out. Sure, I didn't get "paid" more but you know what, I got what I needed from it, and moved on. Not everything requires being paid more to do "extra" work. Sometimes you just do it so you can learn the new skills and then you can leverage it into another job later on.Some people might say I was being taken advantage of because I did jobs "outside" of my role... so what? I took advantage of them by "DOING" those jobs because no one would have hired someone without experience in the first place. The amount of money I could have made from that job was $1-2/hr more, instead I got experience to make $10-15/hr more later on and now I make even more. You have to sacrifice some sweat to gain skills.My profession is still bad and probably will be for the foreseeable future with Pharma's patent cliff and the looming h1b free for all.Originally Posted by?cat1116?Just this past week I have heard 2 people say that they and some of their fellow co-workers have been laid off and this is within the Greater Metropolitan Washington, DC area.My youngest son's company (an electrical contractor) just laid off a couple dozen people on Friday. He just missed the cut but was told to expect it within the next two weeks. Same area as you.1. Anybody who claims the unemployment rate is massaged has no clue what they are talking about. Also realize there ate multiple data points in the numbers themselves. Digging into unemployment numbers is not about the top level U3 number, it is about a deluge of data which is both micro- and macro- level.2. The labor economy is different depending on your circumstance, and specifically your education. The unemployment rate for those with a bachelors or higher over 25 is 2.5% right now. But for anybody without a bachelors or higher it is much higher. So how much you "feel the recovery" depends on your circumstances.?3. Unemployment rate is a localized phenomenon. Some areas recovered faster than others, and some did not recover at all. This is why they report unemployment on a city and state level as well.?4. The labor participation rate remains critically important, as many dropped out of the workforce.The point being is if you have not felt the recovery it may come down to where you live and your education level. A factory worker living in Akron Ohio probably has not felt it, but an engineer in Boston may see a deluge of job offers. When it gets down to it, labor economics is this granular.Originally Posted by?andywire?I'm not sure this is the norm. I have been laid off a couple times in the last year or so. I have been able to find jobs within mere days. I think the whole layoff thing is starting to bite companies in the behind. They are having trouble convincing people to leave jobs. They are having trouble motivating people. Also, it takes time for workers to reach maximum productivity in a new environment.?Companies are losing their competitive edge on the small business front due to lack of loyalty and talent.We are long due for a correction. But where else do I put my money? The bank isn't offering any competition here, which is why the stock market keeps inflating. There must be a major catalyst... Something more than just wild cards. Something like a real estate collapse, which we are not seeing. We are only seeing unemployment falling, job growth, etc. Some wage growth is long overdue.?Also, many of our largest bull markets occurred during recessions. Actually, the majority of them if I'm not mistaken. Recessions provide extraordinary opportunities for wealth creation. Most people just don't capitalize properly, and misallocate funds during boom times.?America is exporting a crap ton these days. Most people don't notice it, but it's true. That's a great sign.?No question, the crash in commodities will cause pain around the globe. Not the first time, and won't be the last. Australia is readjusting just the same. Just be glad you don't live out there.... They are nowhere near as economically diverse as the United States. With cheaper commodities, it will be cheaper to build and manufacture, but also cheaper to import goods into the U.S.. We'll have to wait to see how that plays out here.But here's the thing... There has ALWAYS been SOMETHING on the horizon. You didn't have 24/7 media info overload 30 years ago. Today, we traumatize ourselves with negativity. How easy do you think it would be to brainwash a population into submission? Very easy when the media is monopolized. 90% of the population in this country gets their news from perhaps 3 major media outlets.The economy was never static. That's why we do benefit from having an extremely diverse economy.?And really, most people cannot even define the economy, and have no idea how to properly gauge it. Most people think of the stock market as an accurate gauge, which is beyond absurd. Some of our largest bull markets have occurred under very tumultuous times...?I have been laid off several times. I have also quit several jobs. There are an abundance of jobs, which is why it's time for some wage growth... Though I think most Americans lack the fortitude to ask for a raise, or higher pay. They'd rather believe the fantasy that lower wages somehow equate to more job security. Nope, just a race to the bottom, which further perpetuates itself. That's how economies collapse.Try not to get caught up in finding a job very quickly because if the job is unstable you will be in the same situation you were before you found that job. It took me a year to find my current job which is not important because it's stable and I been here since 2012. Also what kind of jobs were you able to find in days because it doesn't sound too stable to me since you were able to find it so quickly.Originally Posted by?DistrictSonic?1. Anybody who claims the unemployment rate is massaged has no clue what they are talking about. Also realize there ate multiple data points in the numbers themselves. Digging into unemployment numbers is not about the top level U3 number, it is about a deluge of data which is both micro- and macro- level.2. The labor economy is different depending on your circumstance, and specifically your education. The unemployment rate for those with a bachelors or higher over 25 is 2.5% right now. But for anybody without a bachelors or higher it is much higher. So how much you "feel the recovery" depends on your circumstances.?3. Unemployment rate is a localized phenomenon. Some areas recovered faster than others, and some did not recover at all. This is why they report unemployment on a city and state level as well.?4. The labor participation rate remains critically important, as many dropped out of the workforce.The point being is if you have not felt the recovery it may come down to where you live and your education level. A factory worker living in Akron Ohio probably has not felt it, but an engineer in Boston may see a deluge of job offers. When it gets down to it, labor economics is this granular.I'm a HS grad (useless associates degree actually). I don't even list my associates degree on my resume. I'm living in a fairly economically depressed area. I get calls from recruiters every week it seems. My circumstances cannot be summed up simply by examining my educational achievements, or lack thereof.I think people need to break from the old ways of thinking, including the role that education should play in the labor market and economy as a whole. It makes no sense to saddle people with debt so early in life, which would be better allocated towards entrepreneurial ambitions perhaps.?I myself have benefited by having no debt. While I'm a factory worker who might as well living in Akron, I can travel to Boston, where jobs might be more plentiful. Or, I could travel to Texas, Nebraska, or any other state. I recently saw a job advertised online calling for someone with my skillset... Out in Anchorage, Alaska! What do they manufacture out there? Well, every local economy requires some level of manufacturing capacity. The same skills are also useful in many repair shops. Again, America benefits by having an extraordinarily diverse economy, offering a wide variety of opportunities.Per the labor force drop out rate... Think about the sheer number of babyboomers who are retiring AS WE SPEAK. I know many who are intentionally switching to part time. Many are burned out. Us young people are getting burned out even!Nobody seems to realize how well the economy has been doing. Some of that has come off the back's of workers, who have had to make great sacrifices in some cases. It isn't all just "automation", or outsourcing that has been propelling profits at the top. People who have been employed throughout the recession and beyond really have been working their arses off! What hasn't happened is wage growth, which should be troubling. But hey, when 90% of American workers get their news from 2 or 3 major media giants... Look at Mexico as an example of the eventual results.Quote:Originally Posted by?FBJ?Try not to get caught up in finding a job very quickly because if the job is unstable you will be in the same situation you were before you found that job. It took me a year to find my current job which is not important because it's stable and I been here since 2012. Also what kind of jobs were you able to find in days because it doesn't sound too stable to me since you were able to find it so quickly.What do I care if the next job is unstable? I would just move on to the next. I have always found work, even during the downturns. I think others would be equally successful if they really knew how to job search and jump professions in today's confusing, intentionally muddled labor market.?College grads usually are smarter. It's no wonder they generally have more success that those with less educational potential. They also have more opportunities, as many jobs require a college degree.I wish I could share the optimism...we recently got asked to take a pay cut at work and company can't provide medical insurance any longer. Profit margins are getting slimmer and business expenses are continually rising.?Unless one has street smarts and knows how to steal credit for good work and place blame for all the bad you aren't making it much forward at least where I am at. Street skills appear to have higher value at work then real skills but that is probably (I hope it is) unique to the place where I work.Originally Posted by?eyeb?@vintage_girl, but what you said contradicts itself, it might be hard to find what you call "better-paying" jobs, but the economy does have "jobs". You can refuse to acknowledge there are low paying jobs, but they are there. Sure, they aren't good for the economy, but the jobs are still coming back slowly. You wanting to narrow down what type of jobs that come back before saying the economy is better doesn't hold water because everyone always wants a "better" job. For the experience work, maybe things have changed but my first high school job where I made sandwiches at a deli, I was able to get some inventory experience/office experience/ordering experience just by offering to help out. Sure, I didn't get "paid" more but you know what, I got what I needed from it, and moved on. Not everything requires being paid more to do "extra" work. Sometimes you just do it so you can learn the new skills and then you can leverage it into another job later on.Some people might say I was being taken advantage of because I did jobs "outside" of my role... so what? I took advantage of them by "DOING" those jobs because no one would have hired someone without experience in the first place. The amount of money I could have made from that job was $1-2/hr more, instead I got experience to make $10-15/hr more later on and now I make even more. You have to sacrifice some sweat to gain skills.There are "jobs," and then there are jobs which provide the income necessary for a person to pay their basic expenses and eat. Sure, I was able to take low-paying jobs-- that's why I you know, didn't acknowledge them (I didn't realize we were friends?)-- but guess what, the low-paying jobs didn't want me. You seem to forget a lot of jobs have their standards too, hence the Catch-22.?I am getting tired of people insisting there are plentiful opportunities out there for everyone, when the fact is employers of all job levels continue to be selective. College-degree holders find themselves pushed out of selection because of their degree, regardless of the fact they're willing to work. Employers aren't interested in hiring someone who is going to keep looking and eventually leave.?Last month, I interviewed for a position "out of my role," and was turned down because the team was concerned I wouldn't be able to take "my role" hat off to fulfill their role. No amount of convincing could have swayed them, even though I made it clear I was looking for a job and a chance to grow.?There are clearly many low-paying jobs, who don't want a select group of people, and then there are less better-paying jobs who only want a select group of people. Don't sit there and tout about how people aren't willing to take some sweat. My gosh.FTR, I've been through a layoff so I know what it's like. My current employer recently completed a merger and it's only because I happened to work at the right location that I did not experience a second layoff.Wal-Mart works you to death with little pay and certainly no appreciation which is not unique to WM. I'd stay at Target, not worth changing. Besides Target stores are so nice and clean. (I worked for WM for 6 years and it's the hardest job I've ever had because like I said they work you hard ). I won't even shop at Wal-Mart anymore..despise that company!Hi, I currently work at Wal-mart as a "Sporting Goods Sales Associate." Wal-mart seems somewhat comparable to Target, all the boxes have tags with the department number and most also have aisle numbers and some boxes themselves are color-coded and numbered with large characters. But stocking is the easiest part of my job. The worst is management and company policies. Every manager seems to want you to work 5 different jobs every day and theirs takes priority over the others. And it's become worse since the marketing district manager got his office in our store. Our store is severely understaffed so I work in a lot of other departments besides my own. I'm often sent to the backroom at 4 to do freight and pull pallets the rest of the night which means I can't zone my department, sell licenses or ammo, make keys, or finish stocking picks or what the overnight stockers couldn't finish. Then I get in trouble because someone is not available to sell licenses or ammo and the aisles are trashed and a lot of items are stolen or do returns. Or when I'm zoning I'm supposed to make sure every item has labels, but they take away our Telxons and printers after 5 pm so I can't do that or help customers with them. Last week they took away our flex area because they don't look good so we had to throw all that crap behind our desk onto the floor because there is nowhere for it to go and its still sitting there. I've never worked at any other place where the managers try so hard to prevent you from doing your work. Endcaps change daily or more, which can make finding things hard. I've seen endcaps made then a few hours later taken down, then put up again the next day, then taken down, then put back up the next day. Some of the managers are understanding though that you can't be in 10 places at once and most managers aren't rude to your face (some are though). Basically in my position I have to learn many others if I get called up to do freight/cashier/whatever.The pay is similar, I make $8.60 an hour, but Wal-mart no longer pays a premium on Sundays if you were hired within the last 3-4 years or so. Though I think there is a $0.40 premium for working overnights. You get a 10% discount card that applies to non-sale general merchandise, spouses also get one. Breaks/lunches are actually enforced. You'll rarely ever be asked to stay past your scheduled time since overtime is one of the biggest no-nos they seem to prefer you coming five minutes late or leaving five minutes early than getting 1 minute of overtime. Wal-mart's clock tracks and pays by the minute instead of the usual 15 minute rounding or round-down from all the other places I've worked.?Yesterday was terrible, I saw an hourly supervisor from a different department have a breakdown from being overworked and getting in trouble for dumping boxes near the aisle features they were destined to go but no one ever put them system or had a place for the current stuff to go. Then my own hourly supervisor tells me to make a list to track all the specific time frames a manager tells me to do things outside the normal routine so we can have some sort of proof as to why we can't get our work done. Then a few hours later my department manager tells me effective immediately my weekly hours are being cut from being the usual 40 to part-time so I now I don't work tomorrow and no one is working in the department after 4 pm. No courtesy associates were scheduled yesterday either so the janitor had to spend his entire day doing their job, only 1 person was working in deli, and 4 salesfloor associates were called up to cashier since they didn't have enough cashiers, and yesterday was a relatively slow day customer-wise. You'd think that with the big shopping and hunting seasons coming up they would actually want the store to be staffed, but instead they are cutting people's hours.Originally Posted by?Hemlock140?Try to set your sights a little higher. For that kind of work, there are companies like Fedex, UPS, and Costco that pay better and treat the employees a lot better.I Agree with this.Keep in mind that Fedex and UPS are all doing the same part time B.S. that everybody else is doing.My sister works for Costco and loves her jobWal Mart was my first job back in the late 80s and it wasn't so great then. The assistant managers fought with each other and competed with one another to get in the good graces of the store manager. They did this by using the lower level employees to do the grunt work while they (the assistant managers) got the props from the store manager. One lady had had enough and tried to get a little credit for what she did from both her assistant manager and the store manager. The store manager was appreciative, but not the assistant manager, who made things so hard on her, that she was thinking about quitting right up until the time the assistant manager got promoted out of the store.?I was just out of high school and didn't much care about anything. I slipped through the cracks and was not on anyone's radar for about two months. So pretty much I was making my own schedule which pretty much meant all weekends off! It was a good deal... until they realized it and put me back on the truck. Mind you, I was getting paid minimum wage which I believe was $3.50 at the time. My friends who had worked longer than I had assured me I could find a better paying job and I did. $3.85 an hour at a Winn Dixie! I stayed there for four years and loved it. They had a better system for unloading the trucks and ordering for the next truck. And since the store was smaller and there were basically three managers in the entire store, there was more teamwork.A few years ago, I found myself out of a job and in need of anything and quick. I was hired at a Wal Mart for the wireless department. Somehow my ten years of working as a TV news photog made them think I would be good at selling wireless plans to people. I took the job for $8.00. There were about ten of us hired at the same time and the general sentiment was from the folks doing our hiring seminar is that we could all take this job or leave it; it didn't matter to them because there were fifty more folks who had wanted the jobs we got.They also told me they had decided to put someone else in the wireless department and the only position left for me was unloading trucks and pulling merchandise out to the floor. This was a god job for me in my late teens and early 20s, but as a 40 year old guy not in perfect shape, I found it to be less than ideal. Again, I was told basically to take it or leave it. It took me two weeks to find another job making a little more money with almost none of the actual work. I took it and left Wal Mart behind.I would not wish working at Wal Mart on my worst enemy.I have worked at K-Mart for over two years and I think it's the same experience as Wal-Mart. No one appreciates all the hard work you do, but they will criticize you for any little mistake (one manager here is an exception, but the rest are frustrating to deal with). They're not exactly mean or degrading or horrible to work for, but I feel that there is a clear lack of communication between workers and management. Plus, we have very few workers in the store which has a two-fold effect. People get frustrated and take it out on you, and you have to do multiple jobs around the store. The only reason I stay is because they're really accommodating with my changing schedule/availability and it's like 8 minutes from my house. Oh, and the co-workers, though limited in supply?, are very helpful and productive.?But anyways, I would stay at Target. The pay is better. The customers are more of the middle class bunch and I bet you have workers for each department all the time.Leaving Target for WalMart would be like going from the frying pan into the fire. Both are retail and most large retail companies treat their employees (at least the ones on the bottom levels) like second class citizens. Walmart jobs are not much better than flipping burgers IMO.I understand the one company that is not like that is Costco. Supposedly, their employees are paid well and tend to stay there for years and years.DonI have worked for Walmart for about 8 years and have been a dept manager for 6 of those years. The job is stressful and there are never enough hours in the day to do all that needs to be done. As in all retail nowadays you do more with less meaning, that you have to be focused and really prioritize your work load.?Having said that my starting pay from memory was $8.50 per hour and and I now earn closer to $17.00 now. Walmart has looked after me and most of the people that complain about the company are those that want something for nothing. If all you want is a pay check and this is what you project whilst at work then you will never move forward and always be lowly paid. If you are committed to what you do you can move up and increase your income. The choice is yours. Work and succeed or be a bleeding heart.One of my favorite places for lunch is Chick fil A.Chick fil A - Home of the Original Chicken SandwichI just can't believe how helpful, efficient, friendly and responsive the staff is. Many are like the people who work at Disney. The staff's language skills are great, so the orders are correct and it seems like the food is always fresh, hot and tasty. The place is so clean too.No, this is not an advertisement for Chick fil A, but instead, hopefully, a discussion about how some companies can get such performance out of their low wage staff, while others can't.Two Blocks away is a Burger King, Wendy's and KFC. They are all terrible. Most of the staff can't understand my order, the service is slow and the processes inefficient. They never seem to empty the trash and the staff looks rough.I have a friend whose sons works at Chick fil A and I asked him if they pay any better than places like Burger King, and he said no. They make about $8 an hour.How does Chick Fil A do it so well and places like Burger King are so terrible?Good question.. I've wondered about it myself. My wife loves Chick-fil-a... I can take it or leave it personally, though it seems like the only time I really think about stopping there is on Sunday... and they are closed?I don't frequent them much, but when we do stop for lunch or something, I've always been impressed with how family-friendly they are. It's nice to have a someone come by and ask if we need a refill when we have two kids. Not to mention, for some reason I just feel safer letting the kids go up and ask for refills by themselves, even when they are busy, and it's nice not having some junk toy pushed out in a kids meal that is just going to break 10 seconds after we leave.I'm guessing that part of it may be the more Christian focus of the company, translating down to training and work environment for the employees. Can't comment on that too much because I personally have an issue with companies touting any religious/political/etc. bias.. but not enough to worry about boycotting. Doesn't matter if they are pro-Christian, pro-LBGT, or pro-Satanism (not that there are any I know of?). Political/religious/whatever beliefs are best kept to yourself IMO.I think the Christian values attracts a certain type of individual which makes the service that much better. If you are a Christian and strive to make ever day a testament to God's glory, I'm pretty sure it results in behavior that is not simply someone going to a job because he has to put food on the table...that too but it's also to glorify God, etc.In any case, I love chick-fil-a too. I rarely eat fast food but I make only 2 exceptions and this is one of the (the other is In-n-Out).I will chime in and say that Chik-Fil-A has the best crew of any fast food chain, bar none -- and by a HUGE margin, too!Maybe because they get Sundays off, so they know they have at least one day to just relax and be with family and friends?P.S. It is amazing how many managers don't realize that if their workers aren't happy, it will be reflected in the service they give to their customers. (And I think this applies to all kinds of jobs, not just fast food!)I'm also betting it's related to the fact they are Christian. I'm also thinking they have a good management program in place, along with sound hiring decisions.Originally Posted by?RVD90277?I think the Christian values attracts a certain type of individual which makes the service that much better. If you are a Christian and strive to make ever day a testament to God's glory, I'm pretty sure it results in behavior that is not simply someone going to a job because he has to put food on the table...that too but it's also to glorify God, etc.In any case, I love chick-fil-a too. I rarely eat fast food but I make only 2 exceptions and this is one of the (the other is In-n-Out).Good grief. I don't understand how every single thread ends up having Christianity thrown in there, no matter how unrelated it is to the topic at hand. I just read a thread about useless makeup products and a poster said being a good Christian keeps your skin clear better that skin cleansers! But since you mentioned religion, I'll point out that the most religious states have the highest rates of teen pregnancy, suicide, lowest incomes per capita, highest rates of welfare enrollees, and homicide. So I doubt religion plays a part in the good attitudes of Chik-Fil-A workers??It's more likely to be a higher rate of pay and maybe other benefits such as health insurance.?One thing I also noticed is that they always have plenty of workers to fulfill the huge number of orders they have. No one ever seems overwhelmed because they are not understaffed. That factor alone can really help improve employee morale. Remember what happened when Walmart cut staff to save labor costs. The already poor attitude of Walmart workers got even worse. I love Chick-Fil-A also. It and Whataburger are the fast food places I go to most of the time.I think the main reason is the hiring process isn't hindered by Corporate HQ. They allow the store owner to make the hiring decisions. Also, the store manager is there at pretty much all times. I think as your business/corporation gets larger legal concerns over improper hiring practices and the fact you don't know the owner, etc. Make it to where workers care less. Chick-Fil-A, to this point, has done a very good job of treating each store as a small business.They pay more than most companies as well. I know here they came into the schools to talk about what a great company it is to work for and the company culture being great.As other quick service restaurants close their doors, Chick-fil-A opens its doors to more stores. It has no problem serving great food at reasonable prices with excellent service. Chick-fil-A hires quality people to be its team members and instills the importance of service, good work ethics and hard work across all levels of hierarchy. Team members who constantly go above and beyond will go far.I notice they tend to have locations in better areas with a better quality populace so that could be a difference. Back when I lived in Allentown PA the nearby mickey D's was staffed by nearly illiterate latinos and the window near the drive thru had a bullet hole and shattered glass in the stenciled Ronald McDonald.Since they are closed on Sunday, they must attract employees who find that important, and they might have a hiring policy that places more importance on attitude and personality than experience.I have heard it said that smart restaurants should hire for personality, and train for the skills they want. It is impossible to train a nasty person to have a good personality.Also, management is probably carefully chosen to implement the company's ethos.Originally Posted by?Scooby Snacks?One thing I also noticed is that they always have plenty of workers to fulfill the huge number of orders they have. No one ever seems overwhelmed because they are not understaffed. That factor alone can really help improve employee morale. Remember what happened when Walmart cut staff to save labor costs. The already poor attitude of Walmart workers got even worse. I love Chick-Fil-A also. It and Whataburger are the fast food places I go to most of the time.That's a good point. Having worked in fast food (McD's in high school), I am pretty amazed at the number of staff they have at most stores. For example, we have a Chick-fil-a right next to a Burger King. On any day I've gone in, there are 2-4 people working the counter, while at the Burger King I'm lucky to see 2.. usually only 1. It's kinda crazy how many employees I see working there at a given time.. but I guess it makes sense they can afford more employees on the 6 days of the week since they don't have to stagger as many to cover Sunday when they are closed.Originally Posted by?farscapesg01?Good question.. I've wondered about it myself. My wife loves Chick-fil-a... I can take it or leave it personally, though it seems like the only time I really think about stopping there is on Sunday... and they are closed?I don't frequent them much, but when we do stop for lunch or something, I've always been impressed with how family-friendly they are. It's nice to have a someone come by and ask if we need a refill when we have two kids. Not to mention, for some reason I just feel safer letting the kids go up and ask for refills by themselves, even when they are busy, and it's nice not having some junk toy pushed out in a kids meal that is just going to break 10 seconds after we leave.I'm guessing that part of it may be the more Christian focus of the company, translating down to training and work environment for the employees. Can't comment on that too much because I personally have an issue with companies touting any religious/political/etc. bias.. but not enough to worry about boycotting. Doesn't matter if they are pro-Christian, pro-LBGT, or pro-Satanism (not that there are any I know of??). Political/religious/whatever beliefs are best kept to yourself IMO.From what you describe of the service and general atmosphere at Chic FIlet perhaps it's the owners practicing the tenets of their faith that you are seeing, but they don't proselytize their religion. Tenets such as "doing unto others as you would have others do unto you" covers a lot, including being kind to others, giving them a good product and ensuring their experience with your establishment is a good one, being honest and fair in your dealings with others. For sure these make good business sense too but tbose practices are also a part of being a good Christian (although whether or not one practices any particular religion it's part of being a human being with integrity). Perhaps their Christian beliefs provide their moral compass for their business practices.That would be my take on it anyway."Christian values" LOLMost people that work in fast food places in America are Christians.This, makes me think that the difference is the people that chick-fil-a hires as managersIn most fast-food places, anybody can be a manager.What does the Chick-fil-a employee hiring and training process consist of? - QuoraI worked at Chick-fil-a for a little over a year. When I was hired, it was a fairly simple process; I submitted an application and was called back for an interview. I had an interview with one of the managers and then had another interview with the operator of that location. They were friendly and just asked basic interview questions.The training sessions consist of watching videos, mostly. There were several days where I came into work and watched training videos with other new employees.?The videos are about dress codes, how to act with customers, how to do your job correctly, all sorts of things that you need to know. One of the main points that is drilled in, and how employees stay "happy and helpful," is "second-mile service." This is what we are instructed to do to provide as much assistance as possible to the customers. Chick-fil-a thinks of itself as a "quick-service" restaurant, not another fast-food restaurant, so it instructs its employees to act accordingly. Basically, for second-mile service, this includes carrying food out to tables, helping customers take food out to their cars, asking if anyone needs refills, clearing trash from tables... things like that.We are also trained on how to speak to customers. For instance, we're not supposed to ask "can I get you a refill"; we should say "May I refresh your beverage?" We are also instructed to say "My pleasure" instead of "You're welcome" and other little phrases like that. It eventually comes quite naturally.But I think the main reason most of us employees are happy and helpful is because we're treated well. The pay might not be super great and we have to wear polyester shirts, but?Chick-fil-a values their employees and it shows in every level of management that I dealt with.I am a big supporter of Chick Fil-A for one main reason- they are always, ALWAYS, helpful and polite whenever I am there. The restaurant is clean, filled with friendly employees and makes the experience of taking my young children out for a lunch play date a lot more pleasant. My friends and I are able to post up to the tables right in front of the door leading to the play area and can chat and catch up while our children are playing safely.?I honestly get the feeling that all of the employees are treated with respect and dignity, i.e. the counter workers are just as important as the managers. I often see and experience the managers going around and offering to get refills and other things to customers so I think that plays a large part in general attitude and when a person feels respected he/she will perform better at work.Management. Superior management.And it can usually be traced back to one person. One, very good person.I have never been to a Chick-fil-A, but the Inn-N-Out Burgers in California are the same way. Ultra-organized, efficient, courteous. I understand that they pay a bit above minimum wage.Same here in NC. Great customer service. It does seem they hire more American workers where the others don't. I'm not checking visas but if you can't speak English then I can only assume. My only complaint is the "have a blessed day" at first I thought it was accidental but they say it every time. Just irks me for some reason.Regarding their culture, I've read about how Chick-fil-A goes through their process in selecting their new store operators, and it is an intense process. There are thousands of applications for a limited number of new stores each year, and the few that are selected go through several rounds of interviews. Not only personal interviews, but family interviews, interviews with their church and other organizations they are participants of, and lots of background checking. They want to select the pillars of the community, not just someone that has enough money to invest in a "franchise", since all of the stores are company owned. The operators are basically the general managers. And this striving for the best operators trickles down to the managers and other employees too. It is a reflection of their attitude and desire to provide the best experience to every customer. It really is a great place to eat at and to work at too.We always want some on Sunday's too. I guess we are just in that kind of mood after church!I've heard becoming an owner of a Chick-Fil-A is an extremely rigorous process. I think they get better owners, who are in turn more in-tune with the business and hiring. They also seem to be in more affluent areas. You very rarely see a Chick-Fil-A in a hellhole part of town.Originally Posted by?RVD90277?I think the Christian values attracts a certain type of individual which makes the service that much better. If you are a Christian and strive to make ever day a testament to God's glory, I'm pretty sure it results in behavior that is not simply someone going to a job because he has to put food on the table...that too but it's also to glorify God, etc.In any case, I love chick-fil-a too. I rarely eat fast food but I make only 2 exceptions and this is one of the (the other is In-n-Out).i agree with this. funny how both In n Out and Chick-fil-a are both Christian companies and have exceptional service!This is hilarious. Folks claiming Chick-Fil-A's customer service has nothing to do with religion. Lol! Their tenets are distinctively what separates them from the competition. There's Bible verses printed on their cups and paper bags. In-N-Out is another fast food business with the same tenets and they do the same thing - bible verses on cups, bags, etc. It has everything to do how they run their business and the benefits they offer their employees. Continue sticking your head in the sand. It's funny. When Dan Cathy came out about his belief in traditional marriage - everyone then branded Chick-Fil-A a "homophobic religious business". Now that the fire has died down, all of a sudden, religion has nothing to do with "great" they are. It's just a "fast food" restaurants with benefits. Lmao. Please.?To me - Cfa is more consistent in terms of service and food.?That consistency to me is a result of striving for more than just the bottom line. BKW/MCD/etc. are corporations that happens to sell fast food business'. Cfa to me is a chain of fast food restaurants. They operate differently. Franchisees for BKW/MCD are evaluated on their finances/business sense. Cfa franchisees are scrutinized for their willingness to serve the community and build the brand. And I'd think their size also makes it easier to be consistent. How many locations are there for Cfa vs. the other fast food chains? A few thousand vs. tens of thousands?As for their religious undertone. I think it certainly has an impact on their success. However, this isn't to say religion is an automatic formula for success. You don't need that aspect of be successful, but you can't rule it out for Cfa.I'll be frank. Anyone can work hard. Heck, anyone can work 15 hours a day and work until one drops dead.?To me, working hard is just stupid.I've been doing very well in the corporate world. I've made it to middle management in just a couple years while it takes others many more years than that. And I don't work hard at all. I always take the path of the least resistance. I work smart.Let me give you an example. In the last company I worked for, my boss one time decided he wanted a folder for each item in the design. There was about 8K items. He wanted the name of the folder to have the item number (8 digits) and the description. So, he assigned that to me. He was expecting me to sit there all day long clicking away creating new folders in the server and typing in the item numbers and descriptions.An hour later, he walked by my office and noticed I was filing some paperwork. He became irritated and said he needed the assignment done ASAP. I told him I finished it like 30 minutes ago. He went onto the server and there they were 8 thousand folders with the correct naming conventions on them. He came by again and asked me how I did that so fast. I wrote a java script to do all that work for me. Are you kidding? I wasn't going to sit there all day manually creating 8 thousand folders and naming them correctly.?He later told me whenever he assigned that to someone it always took them days to do it. Never occurred to anyone to write a short computer script to achieve the same result in SECONDS.Whenever I do something, I always take a step back and try to figure out how to do it better, faster, and more efficiently.My company recently instituted a new electronic way to keep track of the work being done. Not hard to do, just repetitive and takes about 30 minutes to go through the process. And everyone has to do it on a daily basis. I spent the first day with the new system figuring out ways to do the work more efficiently so I don't have to waste 30-40 minutes each day on this. I finally figured out how to do it the fast way and achieve a more accurate result in 10 minutes or so.?Later, I spotted one of the guys working under me typing in each letter at a time to perform this task. He usually takes like an hour to do it. Typing one letter at a time. I showed him my way and demonstrated. What just took him 40 minutes to do I showed him how to do it in 10 minutes. The next day, I spotted him doing it the old way, taking forever to manually type in one letter at a time.Take a wild guess what I put on his review.Working hard is for people who have no motivation to advance. If you have ambitions, I highly encourage you to work smarter, not harder. Trust me, there are always better, more efficient ways to doing things. You just need to motivate yourself to see the more efficient ways.Originally Posted by?tnff?Sam died. The company was taken over by typical MBAs. Same folks who ruin other companies. Walmart is so big and has so much money it may take years, but as Walmart is now, A&P once was. As A&P is now, Walmart will be. You could insert Kmart, Sears, Montgomery Ward, and a host of other companies in there and get the same answer.Was it the MBAs or his kids?Sam was a great person and a true visionary. He tapped into markets that the other Big Box companies were ignoring. He owned Ben Franklin franchises and went to their executives with the idea of expanding into rural areas and his idea was rejected by their executives. This is the idea that led Walmart to become one of the biggest companies in the world.?His kids are nothing special. They don't have the same drive and desire that Sam had.?I audit companies for a living and when I come across a family owned business, I usually see a lot of damage done by the second and third generations (if they last that long). These are individuals that had great parents or grandparents but have little understanding of how to run a business. They grew up with a sense of entitlement and that does not carry over well to the business world. They also tend to be some of the most arrogant and obnoxious people that I have to deal with. It's no surprise to me when I see these companies go into the red for a few years before ultimately closing up shop or getting bought out.?Sam Walton built such a great company that it took decades for the kids to finally drag the company down a bit. They will survive, but they will have to drop the arrogance and adjust. I think we've started to see that happen in the last couple of years.Friend of mines law firm went through the entire recruiting season for two years with zero intention on hiring any new grads. They didn't want their competitors to think they weren't hiring/growing and wanted to keep their name out there with the colleges.?It takes very little resources to post jobs and take in resumes once their system is up and running. Lots of jobs are posted with zero intention on hiring.?They want to gauge the market, build a backlog of resumes, don't have budget but post anyway, legal reasons and the list keeps going.The reason why job applicants should submit their resumes to fake job ads is that it hardly costs anything and it gives you experience at lying. In our increasingly complex world, those who aren't good at lying usually don't do very well. Unless you were born with lying talent, it takes a lot of practice. Writing resumes doesn't really count as a lot of practice, but it's a lot better than nothing. Eventually you will get some interviews, where you can get some real practice.Originally Posted by?thatguydownsouth?At my last job my boss admitted they just left their accounting position job ad up non stop because turnover was so high. THey would just collect the resumes and when someone inevitably left they would have resumes lined up to call. This is also have they backed their threat "We have stacks of resumes of people wanting your job." -__-That's what my employer has started doing recently. It used to be that a person would apply to be on the "Eligible to Hire List" for a specific position, but now, the position with a high turnover rate are permanently posted. (regardless of whether there are actually any openings or not)I'm in a bit different of a boat. I dropped out of traditional university to attend a technical school (which was awesome), but I made the mistake of choosing too niche a field. I haven't been able to find a full-time job since I've been out, but at least have been fortunate enough to work full-time contract positions or do small freelancing during the time.?I got to say though, we have this broken education system... everyone goes and gets their 4-6 year degree paying the school tens of thousands of dollars. Hell I have some friends that owe over 120k for 4 years of school. You finally graduate, and what happens, no one will hire you. So here's the craziest thing now... what's the first thing these people do? GO BACK TO SCHOOL TO PAY FOR EVEN MORE EDUCATION, the same stuff that landed them jobless in the first place....?It's really a shame we have such a terrible higher education system on top of a poor job economy.xboxer in Scottsdale, Arizona said:?Working when I can get work, so I am getting by. Sometimes, it's very lean, but I am constantly looking for a real job.?Yes, I don't even mind when someone doesn't agree with the advice, but it seems there is something else going on, maybe drug abuse or something??It's pretty bad out there. They keep letting people into our nation, and of course, it's not PC to say that, but this is really getting bad. We should come first....?Thanks for asking and hope you are doing better.Your welcome.?Well I'm Still looking myself but at this point I'm tired of barely getting by on my UEI Benefits so I applied at the 99 cents store for the night shift, that way if I get the job I can still look for work during the day. The problem here is None of the employers want to pay more than 10 an hour regardless of your experience. Even for Admin Assist jobs I see the pay at being that of 11 an hour but they want you to be able to type 85 wpm. LOL?Looking for a job SUCKS! There is no other way around it. The first time I was laid off I applied for over 120 positions I was qualified for and got 0 job offers. All of this was over a 6 month period. Then my company rehired me for another year or so until they closed for good. Another 3 years looking for a job. People do not realize how demoralizing, depressing, and just disheartening this can be. And I've noticed in America we like to believe we are completely in control of our own destiny so people will come out with a whole list of reasons YOU are causing this problem yourself. They ignore the fact that given the current state of employment there are 4 people for every 1 job opening. That means if all jobs were filled right now 75% of those who are unemployed will still be unemployed.?I ended up with a job that pays less then half of what I made in my previous position. But I am happy to be employed.?here's the link to back up the data.? are still getting over 100 applicants for every opening, and it's not a reflection on those that didn't get the job, simply the numbers. You could be very well suited to a position, but still have 50-60 people better qualified. Having hired several people over the last year I feel badly for the 400+ that I didn't hire but I can't hire them all. A manager has to do what's best for the business, and it's hard to justify taking on someone right out of school when people with years of experience are available. I just hired a new MBA but he had 3 years experience in the same field working part time while in college and full time for a year between college and graduate school. Don't give up hope, it has to get better eventually.Opera,I'm in the exact same boat, and I know exactly what you are going through. I've lost my job three different times now due to the economy, and was diagnosed with depression last year. What else can we do except keep trying and keep walking into the wind. What's the alternative? People say it has to get better eventually, but eventually can't come soon enough for the multitudes that are staring into the abyss. If you're a religious man, pray; It's helped me. Try and find time and a way to laugh every day. It's amazing what even a little chuckle can do for your mood. Also, there are some decent books out there that address how to rebuild your self-esteem. Hang in there...Originally Posted by?Peacelilies?First, take a deep breath.?Second, know that you are not alone and that loss of job confidence is very common among anyone who has been looking for a job for a while. It is tough to remain confident when all you are getting is rejections, but you have to press on. Keep telling yourself you are worthy or "this time would pass" etc. Don't allow yourself to sink into depression.?Keep at it, someone will give you a shotI agree. There is no other option except to press on if you want a job...That is what I am doing.I graduated from a "prestigious" university...But, I never was able to land a decent full-time job. (It has been over 10 years since I graduated.) Right now, I am working part-time. I am not getting enough hours each week.I am applying to jobs. I have not had too much success but I am not giving up.Last year, I was hired for a seasonal part-time job. I would have ended up in a real bad financial situation if I did not get that job. Yes, the job paid close to minimum wage. But, I earned some money and gained some customer service experience. I was "overqualified" for the job. But, some manager was willing to give me a chance...Oh please tell me how to regain my confidence too!! I was on my way to getting my career going, had a great temp job then had to go into the hospital for emergency brain surgery! I have a bachelor's degree, but I don't think I can handle a very complicated job now, but can't get hired to do menial stuff because I'm overqualified! What a catch 22. Depression is setting in permanently...scratchNsniff, I had to remove my masters degree from my resume to get interviews. I know part of my problem in finding a job was due to the fact that I don't interview well.Don't keep trying. Look at what you are doing and try to understand what you are doing wrong.Like I already pointed out, your resume doesn't show relevance, which is a big no-no. your resume also does not have substance. I am very surprised if you get interview at all.How is your interview skill? Do you know what an interview is really about?I am retired, but have been unemployed twice in my life, and both times drove me to the deepest depths of despair. I have always been in blue collar work, and never went to college, but out of work is still out of work, so I can identify with everyone here. My neighbor has been out of work almost a year, and he tries every day to find something. He tells me the two most common problems he has is the companies interviewing him, telling him they will let him know something in a week or two, then trashing the applications because they didn't find anyone that fit all the criteria for the job opening. He feels that with the glut of applicants they can be that choosy, but that it's unfair to give him false hope. The other problem he told me is a manager posts an opening, and screens applicants only to decide they are going to fill the opening with an in-house applicant, or even yet, an employees cousin or brother that's looking for a job. I could only imagine the dissapointment in that happening to someone. But as bad as it gets, everyone must hope that things will improve. People are resiliant, and are known to overcome adversity, so to all out there looking for work, don't give up.What really helped me keep up my spirits during a 5 month period of unemployment was working out and exercising everyday. It gave me a sense of accomplishment that I was missing from work and helped jumpstart my day of grueling applications. If I could make it through a grueling working then submitting applications and resumes was easy in comparison.?You(OP) seem like a very educated and well qualified person for many jobs. But these days you just have to accept that job searching is a numbers game. Don't expect every job to acknowledge you but the more you apply to, the greater chances you have of landing a job. Wallowing in your misfortunes of unemployment does nothing to help land a job or put money in your pocket. You can either spend your time searching/applying increasing chances of landing a job or drain your savings more and more each day.Also don't take a remark from 1 hiring manager as a general outlook by ALL employers. Every company/HR person/hiring manager has their own unique personal and organizational views. Some value education over experience, some judge simply by appearance, others could care less about school, some like 1 page resumes, and others don't. Don't worry about what 1 person said, do your best to sell your strengths and prove you are the right person for the job.Originally Posted by?operaphantom2003?I had an interviewer tell me yesterday that going to school for the past 7 years means I didn't do anything for that time.I was told this too!?I was also asked why I had been out of work for so long (was in school & graduated in the financial collapse with only seasonal finance experience). One told me when I graduated 4 years ago that I didn't know what stress was because I'd been in school & not the real world. Well, I've been in the real world for 3 years now and let me tell you, keeping a 4.0 all through undergrad & grad school was a HELL of a lot more stressful than anything I do at work.Employers have been in their cushy jobs and they don't know what it is like out there. Honestly, I forget too now that I'm in their position. But, I've been there and it's not fun.Hang in there. I took a job wayyyy below my skill set out of pure luck and I've been promoted twice now. It's hard to get in anywhere without knowing people.andywire, You are correct in that employers will almost always favor the employed candidate, and that is what I find alarming about the fairly decent job creation the last few months. Millions have stayed at jobs they dislike, and although I'm not one of them, I fear the decent results the last few months will flood the market with more employed candidates, which will increase long-term unemployment percentages even more. I understand it would be unfair to expect them not to take advantage of it, but I would prefer they did opt out for a while longer. We are creating a huge class of people who, in many cases, will never be employed again. I saw in Ct alone, with 3.5 million pop and around 1.6 mill workforce, there are over 70k 99ers since the recession began.Yeah temping sucks. You get treated like you're disposable and at any moment u can get replaced. All the employer has to do is make a call to the temp agency an another one shows up.I've thought the same thing for quite a while now. Companies using "temps" and then blaming the economy. They don't have to treat the temp good, they can work them like a dog and the agency is making money off the temp while the temp puts in long hours without insurance, vacation, holidays.?In my day, you got a temp b/c someone was going on vacation or on sick leave. Now they are using temps for months, even years, and the temp is supposed to be a doormat for client and the agency.Originally Posted by?luckygirl15?In my day, you got a temp b/c someone was going on vacation or on sick leave. Now they are using temps for months, even years, and the temp is supposed to be a doormat for client and the agency.Yes that's how it is now. You go into a factory and all the workers are working under a temp agency, except management of course. And of course they pay min wage.I think it's both a symptom of labor market weakness in some areas and fields and perhaps too much in the way of government aid. It's sad to see people drop out and never reenter.?40 percent of unemployed have quit looking for jobsHonestly that is one statistic I believe.I get calls from both recruiters and employers looking for people who want to work. Sometimes, I tell them my dad might be interested. He's an engineer with 30 years experience, but no college degree. Years ago, they started widdling those people out. Now I find out that the institute of supply chain management is saying they can't find enough engineers with less than a 4 year degree. What a bunch of bull.?My dad gave up looking long ago, just like many like him. Now he works part time in home remodeling and woodworking. He actually makes pretty darn good money, more than many of these employers will pay him by the hour. He also is much more satisfied with the work. I don't blame him for turning his back. He goes burned, just like many other baby boomers.?I've told him about some job openings that he might qualify for, but he's done. Time to train someone else... Except, there aren't enough people doing the training, and not everyone needs an expensive 4 year degree. Employers need to realize the importance of OTJT.There is a major disconnect, and it's probably never going to improve until people with a clue start climbing the ranks.I have a friend in the rust belt. She's given up. She doesn't get any government aid.?There are simply NO JOBS she can do. She can't do manual labor. For every lousy job she could do, like working the graveyard at a convenience store, there are 100's of applicants. She can't get interviewed, even.There are simply NO JOBS she can do. She can't do manual labor. For every lousy job she could do, like working the graveyard at a convenience store, there are 100's of applicants. She can't get interviewed, even.And she is certainly not alone in her frustration. I think a big crash is bound to happen within the next five years or so. However this is what is needed for things to truly recover. So many good people are unemployed or underemployed it really is a tragedy and more college grads are being pumped out every 6 months adding to the problem.The two biggest problems that I see are, pay, many jobs just don't pay enough, and two, experience. Every job wants at least 2 years experience. How are people who have just entered the work force supposed to get experience? Or, what about people that have had to change careers supposed to get experience? Employers need to recognize OJTOriginally Posted by?MSchemist80?Also all this HR nonsense like psychometric testing and various interviewing gimmicks and poorly functioning screening software have made job-searching and hiring a dysfunctional nightmare.Some of those unemployed may just have gotten tired of screening software that is often buggy and draining. But you are correct hiring has become dysfunctional in many ways.Other problem is that people are working longer because they cannot afford to retire. So they are keeping jobs?that otherwise would open up to younger people.The way I see it, it is one big vicious cycle put in place the big wealthy business interests and its working very well. Pay people less, work them longer, (which cuts down on job openings), use more automation and robotics, (which eliminates many jobs), send more work overseas, (which saves and makes the companies more $$$ and eliminates jobs for US workers), raise hiring qualifications like degrees & experience so it trims down the number of applicants, make college more expensive so its harder for people to get a degree, and you have the perfect recipe for what the US will eventually become. A land of "haves" and "have-nots." Its already this way in the deep south. The middle class is dying. The American Dream is dead. For every one person that busts his or her a$s and rises above, there's 20 more working just as hard getting nowhere.People who say 'oh apply for retail' don't realize there's heavy competition for even those jobs.their is too many people competing for too few jobs, the problem is that there are no jobs, simple as that.and as the poster above me said, even retail and low skill jobs get hundreds of applications for 1 job opening, it pretty grim.Originally Posted by?deposite?People who say 'oh apply for retail' don't realize there's heavy competition for even those jobs.And the "hiring" signs that are there are because retailers are constantly terminating people, so it creates a perpetual hire-terminate cycle. Retail is a high turn over industry.Originally Posted by?NJBoy3?"Too much government aid" You have got to be kidding. It has to do with just about everything we have being made in china. It has to do with politicians who don't understand they have to protect our economy, not sell all of us out.Not just manufacturing being shipped overseas ... insult is added to injury by issuing temporary work visas for foreigners to come here when Americans are out of work. Add an ever increasing population, less jobs per capita, and you get exactly what the liberals want ... a country dependent on the government.Originally Posted by?Emigrations?I think it's both a symptom of labor market weakness in some areas and fields and perhaps too much in the way of government aid. It's sad to see people drop out and never reenter.?40 percent of unemployed have quit looking for jobsWhich is why the government-spun unemployment statistics look as good as they do. They only count as "unemployed" those who are actively looking for work.Originally Posted by?FBJ?It shouldn't be any competition for those jobs since they only offer part-time hours and crappy pay. Atleast I can say when I was a telemarketer right out of college, I was able to work 40 hours and make $9.00 an hour which is unheard of in the world of retail.That's the most people can afford these days to get a foot in the door.The unemployment rate by itself doesn't tell the whole story. When this recession began, many middle class jobs were wiped out and the ones that have been coming back are low paying ones. Plus, many people have dropped out of the workforce causing the rate to go down as well. Last but not least, the unemployment doesn't take into account underemployed people who are trying to break into a better paying field. Bottom line is, things aren't as rosy as they appear.The Big Lie: 5.6% Unemployment"Here's something that many Americans -- including some of the smartest and most educated among us -- don't know: The official unemployment rate, as reported by the U.S. Department of Labor, is extremely misleading.Right now, we're hearing much celebrating from the media, the White House and Wall Street about how unemployment is "down" to 5.6%. The cheerleading for this number is deafening. The media loves a comeback story, the White House wants to score political points and Wall Street would like you to stay in the market.None of them will tell you this: If you, a family member or anyone is unemployed and has subsequently given up on finding a job -- if you are so hopelessly out of work that you've stopped looking over the past four weeks -- the Department of Labor doesn't count you as unemployed. That's right. While you are as unemployed as one can possibly be, and tragically may never find work again, you are not counted in the figure we see relentlessly in the news -- currently 5.6%. Right now, as many as 30 million Americans are either out of work or severely underemployed. Trust me, the vast majority of them aren't throwing parties to toast "falling" unemployment.There's another reason why the official rate is misleading. Say you're an out-of-work engineer or healthcare worker or construction worker or retail manager: If you perform a minimum of one hour of work in a week and are paid at least $20 -- maybe someone pays you to mow their lawn -- you're not officially counted as unemployed in the much-reported 5.6%. Few Americans know this.Yet another figure of importance that doesn't get much press: those working part time but wanting full-time work. If you have a degree in chemistry or math and are working 10 hours part time because it is all you can find -- in other words, you are severely underemployed -- the government doesn't count you in the 5.6%. Few Americans know this.There's no other way to say this. The official unemployment rate, which cruelly overlooks the suffering of the long-term and often permanently unemployed as well as the depressingly underemployed, amounts to a Big Lie.And it's a lie that has consequences, because the great American dream is to have a good job, and in recent years, America has failed to deliver that dream more than it has at any time in recent memory. A good job is an individual's primary identity, their very self-worth, their dignity -- it establishes the relationship they have with their friends, community and country. When we fail to deliver a good job that fits a citizen's talents, training and experience, we are failing the great American dream.Gallup defines a good job as 30+ hours per week for an organization that provides a regular paycheck. Right now, the U.S. is delivering at a staggeringly low rate of 44%, which is the number of full-time jobs as a percent of the adult population, 18 years and older. We need that to be 50% and a bare minimum of 10 million new, good jobs to replenish America's middle class.I hear all the time that "unemployment is greatly reduced, but the people aren't feeling it." When the media, talking heads, the White House and Wall Street start reporting the truth -- the percent of Americans in good jobs; jobs that are full time and real -- then we will quit wondering why Americans aren't "feeling" something that doesn't remotely reflect the reality in their lives. And we will also quit wondering what hollowed out the middle class."Work for you?Originally Posted by?kutra11?Wow! Self-pity will never take you on the road to success!!!If you can't find a job, the problem is you. Period! It could be your skills, education, experience, personality, lack of preparedness, inflexibility to move, bad resume, personal habits, etc.I used to think like this but know now this line comes from - what comes down to - a pretty ridiculous interpretation of libertarianism. Specifically, libertarian writers of the 18th and 19th Centuries living in, for the most part, an agricultural world. Not to knock hard work, or bootstrapping, but the moral lessons of Thoreau hardly have any applicability to our world. It simply isn't possible to live independently like that anymore.There are just WAY too many factors, too many processes that are far beyond the pale of rational human control to go blaming individual people for their lot in life. Mergers, downsizing, market fluctuations, government regulation, changing prices in commodities, wars in the Middle East, pollution, technological changes...and this is just the tip of the iceberg. All of these things change the job market - radically.?It's completely ridiculous to expect that people are just supposed to drop everything and move to Alaska, get another degree, learn another trade, sell off the house, take a lower wage, go on unemployment, don't go on unemployment, or whatever have you to accomodate the job market. Societies are supposed to serve human needs. Humans aren't just here as cogs for technology or the so-called "free market" to use and dispose of.?Eventually one of two things is going to happen. Either the human race actually will become cogs to be used for the markets every need, or the people who think that the human race should be used in this manner are going to be "stood up against a wall" as the Bolsheviks used to say.Originally Posted by?hughbay?I used to think like this but know now this line comes from - what comes down to - a pretty ridiculous interpretation of libertarianism. Specifically, libertarian writers of the 18th and 19th Centuries living in, for the most part, an agricultural world. Not to knock hard work, or bootstrapping, but the moral lessons of Thoreau hardly have any applicability to our world. It simply isn't possible to live independently like that anymore.There are just WAY too many factors, too many processes that are far beyond the pale of rational human control to go blaming individual people for their lot in life. Mergers, downsizing, market fluctuations, government regulation, changing prices in commodities, wars in the Middle East, pollution, technological changes...and this is just the tip of the iceberg. All of these things change the job market - radically.?It's completely ridiculous to expect that people are just supposed to drop everything and move to Alaska, get another degree, learn another trade, sell off the house, take a lower wage, go on unemployment, don't go on unemployment, or whatever have you to accomodate the job market. Societies are supposed to serve human needs. Humans aren't just here as cogs for technology or the so-called "free market" to use and dispose of.?Eventually one of two things is going to happen. Either the human race actually will become cogs to be used for the markets every need, or the people who think that the human race should be used in this manner are going to be "stood up against a wall" as the Bolsheviks used to say.Agreed.The moral lessons of the boot-strappers have no relevance today, barring the general idea that one should at least try to do something useful in life. That's it. We are far too industrialized as a society for people to go off into the wilds and "live off the land" or some nonsense. That land is already owned by the government or some private individual or corporation, and you're not going to "live off it" in today's world. Yes, centuries ago, it was possible for anyone with some reasonable skills or work ethic to wander into some frontier town and get a job at the local smithy, market, etc. Those days are long gone. Now, we have a highly trained population living in an expensive, interconnected, industrialized society: most people do not have the skills to be farmers or whatever, and there's no cheap land for them to do that work even if they could. And what about all the folks who have physical issues (age included) that would prevent them from being farmers "living off the land?" I guess they are just supposed to vanish since they are no longer "of use" to society.?The madness grows as the economy shrinks. BS unemployment numbers aside, the situation is bad and only getting worse from a practical perspective. Nobody should be celebrating the creation of 100,000 Mcjobs when 150,000 middle class jobs were lost in the same time period. Eventually, the current system will collapse since it's reaching the point where debt is everywhere, nobody is "qualified" to work, and the jobs are gone anyway. Good luck maintaining an advanced society in those conditions.I'm a software developer, and in my experience, whenever a company says that they are looking for someone that "thrives in a fast-paced" environment or "the ability to work under pressure", it immediately sends a red flag to me. To me, this usually translates as "we have no specs, unit tests, and we don't care about long term viability of the software you write, we just want it shoved out the door as soon as possible under ridiculous deadlines". That, or it's speak for them wanting younger people with great passion and energy, yet willing to work for less money. I go out of my way to work for companies that are SLOW paced - if I'm too busy, I do not have time to do things properly or grow in my skillsets. And ironically, when a software developer works at a slow pace, it saves time and money in the long run, because the software tends to be higher quality and less buggy. I have lost track of the hours I've wasted trying to work with someone else's code who clearly wrote the code under pressure and tight deadlines. Take the time to do it right the first time, and the software will have much better long term viability. It always seems that with companies like this, there's never time to do it right the first time, yet in the end there's somehow time down the road to rewrite half the code and fix all the bugs that resulted from a stressful development environment.I've worked at two companies that described themselves as "fast-paced" in the job posting, and both were absolutely horrid places to work - the stress levels and ridiculous unpaid overtime were enough to drive me suicidal, and both companies actually ended up collapsing under the weight of their mismanagement.I guess it depends on your industry, though. If you're waiting tables or bartending, "fast-paced" would be good."Fast-paced" usually means the employer expects unrealistic results or workload.I typically judge a job posting by it's amount of criteria. The more verbose and detail each has, usually the more BS the job really is and the worse your boss/company will be. You can't always tell, but as a general rule of thumb it's a smart play. I usually avoid listings like that altogether.In my previous job, "fast-paced work environment", meant long hours (including weekends) not an 8 to 5 job, juggling multiple projects and still meeting the deadlines with exceptional results, frequent travels to other company sites and being on your two feet for 30 hours in a row on the manufacturing floor, and frequently scope-shifting projects AND staying sane and normal while all these are happening.It's never a good sign. At best, it's filler. At worst the company is saying that they will put you on salary and give you 100 hours worth of work to do every week. You?could?get it done in 40 hours, theoretically, if you were perfect, everybody responded to your needs immediately, and nothing ever went wrong.?This phrase really means the company will throw work at you at such a fast pace that you will be unable to have a life outside of work.It's the way they say "We want workaholics who have no life!" Saying that may deter some though.Originally Posted by?Morinyo?In my previous job, "fast-paced work environment", meant long hours (including weekends) not an 8 to 5 job, juggling multiple projects and still meeting the deadlines with exceptional results, frequent travels to other company sites and being on your two feet for 30 hours in a row on the manufacturing floor, and frequently scope-shifting projects AND staying sane and normal while all these are happening.I was about to say the same thing. Long hours for sure!To me, fast-paced means quick, small releases, and quick adaptation to change. Unit tests are an enabler to fast-paced development. If you have good unit tests, you need minimal external documentation with the exception of documenting the architecture.This whole concept of doing it right the first time is great in theory and it works when you're doing something that has been done before. But when you're innovating, you have to get stuff out the door so that you can see whether it works on a mass scale or not. Then refactor it as needed. That's why it's important to follow modular code patterns so at most, you're only touching 20-30 lines of code at a time.When I worked at Google, we had code releases to production everyday. Each release had to follow a very strict release process that included rigorous unit test requirements. I actually think that Microsoft pulls off the fast-paced software development cycle best with Bing. They have multiple releases a day on Bing alone.I don't know about other industries, but in software, fast-paced does not imply working extra hours.Fast paced = stress, frequent hard deadlines, demanding bosses, people who have no life outside of work, and long hours.Been there, done that, have no desire whatsoever to return to that kind of environment.Originally Posted by?statisticsnerd?Fast paced = stress, frequent hard deadlines, demanding bosses, people who have no life outside of work, and long hours.Been there, done that, have no desire whatsoever to return to that kind of environment.I'm right there with you.After working 60+ hours a week for years on end, I had to promise my wife for the sake of our marriage, our future family, and my mental health, that I'd never consistently work more than 40 hours a week again if I could help it.?Prior to landing my current job, I interviewed at a couple places that said they wanted someone who "thrives in a fast paced environment". I flat out told one company during the interview that I don't work more than 40 hours a week unless there's an emergency or upcoming deadline, and the interviewer looked shock and insinuated I was lazy. The other interviewer laughed at me and said it's impossible for a company to be profitable while having employees that only work 40 hours a week. I walked out of both interviews, and now have a job where I probably work 35 hours a week, yet make more than I would have had either of those companies that were "fast-paced".Yes, it depends on the industry. In my industry, fast-paced can mean you will work 12 hours straight with maybe a pee break at best, but also on other days, you might sit around twiddling your thumbs for 12 hours. It is just a phrase used to weed out those who can't handle the bad moments.Originally Posted by?Olderandprobablywiser?"Fast-paced" usually means the employer expects unrealistic results or workload.I typically judge a job posting by it's amount of criteria. The more verbose and detail each has, usually the more BS the job really is and the worse your boss/company will be. You can't always tell, but as a general rule of thumb it's a smart play. I usually avoid listings like that altogether.I have witnessed the same.it means they will work you to the bone and pay you peanut.Think of sitting next to people who code extremely fast all day long efficiently with few breaks.The typing is bone piercing sometimes. If you can avoid "fast-paced" work environments I would recommend you do so. Unless you enjoy this type of thingI won't interview with any company that has 'fast-paced environment' or 'must wear many hats' in the job description. I've explained to more than one recruiter that this tells me they are unable to plan and manage their own projects.Just thinking about the current situation and the millions of idle construction and former factory workers who have lost it all in this downturn. The jobs will never come back in the numbers to accommodate half these workers and the jobs that remain will see downward pressure on wages due to simple supply and demand.It is simplistic to say "retrain" when a lot of these people are in their 50's and nearing the end of their working careers. The job growth is just not there, over the past two years job growth has not even been close to accommodate new workers entering the workforce let alone enough to absorb the millions of excess workers.Of course it isn't limited to these two industries, many older white collar workers lost their jobs and will likely never see them return.?The problem with retraining is, while it improves a workers skill, it does nothing about their employability. All else being equal between two equally trained individuals, the employer will select the younger one if just for the cost savings in health plans. Another issue is ability; after years on the factory floor and lack of education, many just won't or can't learn new tricks.?This leads me to my point. With so many older people reaching (or soon to reach) the point where they have nothing to lose, will we descend into chaos and revolt? Is it expected that these millions of broke desperate people just go off into the woods and die like an old dog??I was discussing this online with anonymous individuals and many have stated that if they go out they are going to take some of the politicians with them. I see this as a very distinct possibility when you have a guy in his mid to late 50's who has lost his home, burned through his life savings and has no idea where he is going to live or how he is going to pay for his next meal.If something doesn't change, it will. If you study history, that's what always happens.I doubt we will be exempt. When enough people find they have nothing to lose, they will consider the limitations of incarceration to be nothing worse than the prison of abject poverty. After all, you get free medical, food, and a place to sleep. When that starts sounding good to a large segment of the population...watch out!Maybe so, I think the real danger is if the Government takes away things like welfare and food stamps you'll see a major spike in crime.Like Gerald Celente says, " When people lose everything and have nothing left to lose, the lose it. "I am far from my 50's and still young enough to be retrained but nowhere near employable. At this point, I am all ready feeling restless about the (un)employment situation.One thing for sure is that I have my torch and pitchfork ready, all I need is the word for when and where we begin make the change for the better.Originally Posted by?iamrollinglow?I am far from my 50's and still young enough to be retrained but nowhere near employable. At this point, I am all ready feeling restless about the (un)employment situation.One thing for sure is that I have my torch and pitchfork ready, all I need is the word for when and where we begin make the change for the better.I'm starting to feel unemployable myself. I don't know what the age threshold is but I think its safe to say I have exceeded it.?What do these idiots in Washington think is going to happen? The "quantitative easing" (aka increasing the money supply) is exactly the WRONG response to our problem which is excess debt. They are fighting the excess debt problem as if it were a lack of liquidity. There is no lack of liquidity, there is a lack of ability to take on more debt which has been what has fueled growth in GDP since the 1980's (Average growth in GDP 4.2% vs average growth in debt of 7.8%)?The direct result of the efforts to save campaign donors (banks/corporations) with excess liquidity and ZIRP (zero interest rate policy) is just screwing the average American blue. Elderly get NOTHING on their insured deposits or safe investments while pumping money into the economy is increasing commodity prices thereby increasing the cost of living for American citizens. It is all intentionally done to save bankers from their previous bad decisions.?I can honestly say that I consider the two political parties a bigger threat to the average American than Al queda ever could be. The politicians are looting our country as the American voters are bought off by petty ideological debates.While I believe the Tea Party is just a republican cheer-leading squad it is amazing a politician called them terrorists when in fact the same thing could be said about her political crime family. I knew this whole terrorism crock was just a grab for more power and control by the entrenched politicians. Easy answer to anyone who disagrees with you? Terrorist.I agree. I think people are getting tired of the power struggles in Washington and want results. I'm employed but as a contractor. I don't get medical insurance and I have a pre existing condition that prevents me from getting my own. I am weary of "Obamacare" because I don't trust insurance companies. But I fear more the republican notion of repealing and things just getting worse. When they say they are going to repeal it, all I hear is a direct "********* and die". I've grown tired of being drained by healthcare. I did what I was suppose to. Went to college and have some work experience but still struggle for a decent salary and affordable healthcare. I'm trying to better myself but so are thousands of other people. It's no secret that it's tough out there.?I see all those who are unemployed. Many are educated with skills and still can't find work. Many jobs are not coming back. And we have thousands of others going through school every year who are getting dumped into the same slim job market. Yet we have politicians who still protect corporations. Make it easy for jobs to be shipped overseas. The same politicians who want to cut Social Security and Medicare. Want to cut back or eliminate welfare. Politicians who want to keep preaching about trickle down economics (that doesn't work) and want to destroy unions and other government regulations that protect workers. It's scary.People are getting angry. I can't imagine a future in America where unemployment is low and salaries are good anymore. Many people are going to be on the losing end of the political warfare going on in this country and it's going to get ugly. I just sense this pressure building. It may not happen this year but it does seems like a calm before the storm. I expect fall of 2012 when the political rhetoric is going to be savage and tense is going to stir things up BIG TIME. It just may be the trigger to start the civil unrest that we are seeing in other parts of the world. I hope it doesn't but I see everything falling into place for it to happen.NEW YORK (MainStreet) — Employers are slashing major medical plan options even more and shifting costs to employees who are forced to find other alternatives such as opening a health savings account (HSA).Changes in benefits are occurring because 49% of companies said that controlling costs is their top business issue, compared to only 28% in 2011, according to a recent survey from Aflac, a Columbus, Ga. provider of voluntary insurance. The study surveyed 1,856 employers and 5,209 employees at small, medium and large U.S. companies and sheds light on how companies are dealing with health care costs and how it affects workers.Employee Benefits Are Disappearing Before Your Very Eyes - MainStreetThis has been going on for 40 years. It's hardly news.Look the long term deal is to get rid of benefits. Health benefits pensions lots of small companies offer no 401k. The idea that companies will keep offering health benefits. How can I put this in a nice way? It is beyond nuts their going to get rid of work based health benefits. That is why you have seen more temps and part timers and contractors no benefits cost. Health coverage cost keeps going up 7 to 15% a year. This was before the ACA cost have never stopped going up. All the ACA was speed up the time table. So companies that would have dump their health benefits in the next 10 to 15 years. Their just dumping them now. Over the last 20 years companies have been getting rid of benefits. So long to retiree coverage or coverage for the wife and sometimes even family coverage. Companies want to make profits not offer you health benefits. The day will come when few companies will offer health benefits. A very big companies and the government will get them. Everyone else will be on their own. It will happen slowly over the next 20 years. And I agree with Ohio girl it is hardly news it has been going on for 40 years. Less pay and benefits is the way of the future. The nature of work it self will change. Full time jobs with health benefits. They will make up a much smaller part of the job market in the future.Anything that separates the link between employment and health insurance is a good thing. This isn't exactly a separation... but a move in the right direction.NJBest we may not often agree but here we do. We need to separate the link between employment and heath insurance. Over the long haul it will be a good thing. It would lead to more job growth. And one would hope some wage growth as well. It was only an accident of history that we have an employer based system. Our current system will not last. The ACA as I pointed out only sped up the time table. One way or the other massive change is coming to healthcare. And the whole idea of work based health benefits. Is going to come to end as we know it. Now the big question is what do we replace it with? Even I have no idea how it will turn out. But change is coming no mater what.The ACA took us in the wrong direction. It strengthened the relationship between employer and health insurance. Employers are now required by law to provide health insurance benefits to employees. That's absurd.The ACA did take us in the wrong direction in terms of that. But my feeling is most job growth in the future will be very small companies. Falling under the 50 worker cap rule. They will not have to deal with the ACA. Many companies will keep more workers under 30 hours. They will offshore more workers. You will just have a smaller US based workforce. The use of more temps and part timers. Over the long haul companies will dump their workers into the exchanges. Over the long term the fine is cheaper in the long run. Health care cost keep going up. Only the cost of education has out paced the cost of heath care. Most companies will dump their health care plans over the next 25 years. It just will happen slowly.Benefits? What are benefits??The ACA isn't the?cause?of people losing employer health care. It's a RESPONSE to the problem. Benefits started to disappear years ago. I started to work for a Fortune 100 company in the early 1980s. We never got a single new benefit the entire time I was there. We just lost them. Drip, drip, drip.Originally Posted by?collegeguy35?Now the big question is what do we replace it with?Bingo!!!The fact of the matter is 3 things:1. The hospitals/pharmacists/doctors/insurance companies still want to make their money, which is heavily dependent on the current healthcare structure we have now.2. Employers still need healthy employees to maintain top productivity.3. Employees still want to remain healthy if they want to live a long, fruitful life.So ultimately, this will all eventually lead to a universal/single-payer health insurance system anyway (unless we want to become some third world country were poor health standards and a low quality of life is the rule, or essentially a big Detroit). Thus, employers can either contribute to their employee's health insurance through higher tax bills or through their own companies at their own expense.Originally Posted by?Jukesgrrl?Benefits? What are benefits??The ACA isn't the?cause?of people losing employer health care. It's a RESPONSE to the problem. Benefits started to disappear years ago. I started to work for a Fortune 100 company in the early 1980s. We never got a single new benefit the entire time I was there. We just lost them. Drip, drip, drip.I don't think anyone was suggesting that the ACA was the cause of people losing employer healthcare. The discussion was around how the ACA is moving this nation in the wrong direction in terms of employer health benefits.Originally Posted by?NJBest?I don't think anyone was suggesting that the ACA was the cause of people losing employer healthcare. The discussion was around how the ACA is moving this nation in the wrong direction in terms of employer health benefits.Well people bitched, moaned and groaned about the original proposal to create a hybrid Single-Payer/Universal system, so the ACA was essentially the watered-down "compromise."So for those seem to be dead set against the ACA, how do you propose to fix the healthcare problems in America? Please pick a struggle (I'll wait)...I have not seen any reduction in benefits for myself or family members except for health care, where the plans have required either a greater employee contribution or a change to a high deductible with HSA rather then a small co-pay (or both). Regardless of the ACA, the cost of providing healthcare has become unaffordable for employers. Even the high deductible I have costs my employer $1,900/month. The ACA just added more to the cost by requiring insurers to cover certain preventatives to be free. Other benefits such as vacation, holidays, transit pass,401K, and even pension contribution are far more affordable than healthcare.Originally Posted by?313Weather?Well people bitched, moaned and groaned about the original proposal to create a hybrid Single-Payer/Universal system, so the ACA was essentially the watered-down "compromise."So for those seem to be dead set against the ACA, how do you propose to fix the healthcare problems in America? Please pick a struggle (I'll wait)...The healthcare problems are what exactly??Well the issue for most isn't so much access itself but rather costs. If one had the funds they could afford any healthcare they wanted.So how exactly does doing more with less (Walmart plan/ACA) help in lowering costs? It doesn't. How can putting tens of millions of people on a system without hiring a single new doctor, nurse, nurse practitioner or opening a hospital solve the issue?When demand is subsidized prices go UP. If Walmart gives out 30% off coupons the day before black friday you get mobbed as a result and products sell out.When supply is subsidized prices go DOWN. School lunch program is an example. It is cheaper for a student to buy lunch then bring lunch from home. Alternative energy is another as the government provides loans for companies to actually produce solar technology and wind and watches as they compete with one another that drives costs down.It's that simple.So how about taking funds that pay for student loans for medical school and having the government open up more medical schools? How about grants to states to do so? How about mandating that states must allow for drug store clinics??Health is largely dictated by diet, exercise and the environment. The UCLA study on devout LDS members that lasted 25 years pretty much dictated this conclusion. Yet how many communities have sidewalks and pubic transit? How many people still smoke and drink? Yeah they might say they have it under control but it comes with a cost to everyone. How many public schools cut gym classes just because it is not academic ? Even the NHS in the UK says they might not treat people that are excessively large! Why are there parks and playgrounds only for kids? Not everyone can afford a gym.How about moving to a first to invent process rather then first to patent so new technologies are actually created rather than produce patent trolls that produce nothing but revenue for the lawyers!?We have to look at the whole picture here not just one top down process.Originally Posted by?313Weather?If that's the case, then why do you have such a problem with...^^^this?Because:1. You have to keep switching health insurance providers as you move job to job. The insurance is dependent on you being employed. So if you lose your job, your coverage/cost changes. That's stupid.2. It forces employers of at least 50 people to provide a benefit. That's absurd.Originally Posted by?NJBest?1. You have to keep switching health insurance providers as you move job to job. The insurance is dependent on you being employed. So if you lose your job, your coverage/cost changes. That's stupid.Agreed. That's why I was a strong advocate in a single-payer government option for health insurance. But of course, so many people were against that for whatever reason and we ended up with the ACA.Quote:Originally Posted by?NJBest?2. It forces employers of at least 50 people to provide a benefit. That's absurd.But if they were providing this benefit already (as you stated), then what's the issue?Originally Posted by?313Weather?Agreed. That's why I was a strong advocate in a single-payer government option for health insurance. But of course, so many people were against that for whatever reason and we ended up with the ACA.Nothing that made economic sense was proposed. MA has the best solution so far.Quote:Originally Posted by?313Weather?But if they were providing this benefit already (as you stated), then what's the issue?Not all employers provide these benefits. They retained the freedom of choice and could choose not to take on such a burden if it didn't make sense for them. The federal government is overstepping their boundaries.Originally Posted by?NJBest?MA has the best solution so far.How is the MA solution dissimilar from the ACA in its current incarnation?Quote:Originally Posted by?NJBest?Not all employers provide these benefits. They retained the freedom of choice and could choose not to take on such a burden if it didn't make sense for them. The federal government is overstepping their boundaries.And not all employers will have to provide these benefits under the ACA. If they don't bring in a certain amount of revenue or have less than 50 employees, they don't have to insure their employees. Instead, the employees have the option to either sign up for Medicare (if their state opted in for this ACA mandate) or buy health insurance off the exchange.?In any event, while you're entitled to your opinion, a Supreme Court decision has already been made against your opinion, which is all that matters.Originally Posted by?NJBest?It's funded from within the state (premiums and tax). ACA is set up so that productive states like MA, CT and NJ support unproductive states like SC, MI, etc. It's economically deteriorating states that contribute to the majority of the GDP.Of course, the MA solution is far from perfect. It still requires employers to be part of the healthcare system. This overhead is the biggest problem.But see, the Federal government has an obligation to serve citizens in all 50 states equally, regardless of individual state politics or the wealth of said people in said states.?And no one said the ACA (or the MA solution instituted nationwide) is perfect. But there are two things we want to resolve with healthcare reform, and that's:1. Getting more people the insurance coverage they need to receive the healthcare they need.2. Reducing the expense of said insurance coverage.?The ACA at least addresses #1, which I'd say is a huge step from where we were before. Going forward, the ACA will be used as a blue print in address the high costs of health insurance. Of course, if the framing of the issue is about how wealth will be redistributed, then I doubt the will power will ever be there for us to address the high costs of health insurance.Originally Posted by?313Weather?And not all employers will have to provide these benefits under the ACA. If they don't bring in a certain amount of revenue or have less than 50 employees, they don't have to insure their employees. Instead, the employees have the option to either sign up for Medicare (if their state opted in for this ACA mandate) or buy health insurance off the exchange.?In any event, while you're entitled to your opinion, a Supreme Court decision has already been made against your opinion, which is all that matters.I disagree. That's not all that matters. Your passive stance on this and your willingness to just agree with the supreme court because it made a decision is concerning. The Supreme Court once ruled that blacks could not have rights of citizens even if they were without masters in a free state. People like you were the reason why it took so long to overturn that. But it was overturned. And hopefully this will be as well.Employer benefits are an option used to entice good employees. Not something that needs to be mandated by the government.Originally Posted by?NJBest?Employer benefits are an option used to entice good employees.?Not something that needs to be mandated by the government.And they still can.If they were doing so before the mandate, there's no issue.Originally Posted by?313Weather?But see, the Federal government has an obligation to serve citizens in all 50 states equally, regardless of individual state politics or the wealth of said people in said states.?Only within the limits of the constitution. The rest is left up to the states.Quote:Originally Posted by?313Weather?And no one said the ACA (or the MA solution instituted nationwide) is perfect. But there are two things we want to resolve with healthcare reform, and that's:1. Getting more people the insurance coverage they need to receive the healthcare they need.2. Reducing the expense of said insurance coverage.?The ACA at least addresses #1, which I'd say is a huge step from where we were before. Going forward, the ACA will be used as a blue print in address the high costs of health insurance. Of course, if the framing of the issue is about how wealth will be redistributed, then I doubt the will power will ever be there for us to address the high costs of health insurance.You're going way off topic here. Like I told you before, the political subforum is elsewhere. We're discussing the way that the ACA has failed the American people by forcing employers to be involved in healthcare insurance.Originally Posted by?313Weather?And they still can.If they were doing so before the mandate, there's no issue.But what about those who weren't? Do they still have the freedom to conduct business as they always have without needing to provide insurance options? No.Originally Posted by?NJBest?Only within the limits of the constitution. The rest is left up to the states.Yes, and the Supreme Court thinks the Federal Government is within its limits.Quote:Originally Posted by?NJBest?We're discussing the way that the ACA has failed the American people by forcing employers to be involved in healthcare insurance.Actually, we're discussing how employee benefits are disappearing before our very eyes. Yet, you blamed the ACA for this, and I wanted to know why.Originally Posted by?NJBest?But what about those who weren't? Do they still have the freedom to conduct business as they always have without needing to provide insurance options? No.And actually, now that I think about it, these employers?DO?have the freedom to not provide insurance (granted, they wouldn't if they want to remain competitive in retaining good employees).They'll just pay a fine on their tax bill that will go towards subsidizing those employees on the healthcare exchange and Medicare.Originally Posted by?313Weather?Actually, we're discussing how employee benefits are disappearing before our very eyes. Yet, you blamed the ACA for this, and I wanted to know why.Actually, I did no such thing. If you got that from:Quote:Originally Posted by?NJBest?I don't think anyone was suggesting that the ACA was the cause of people losing employer healthcare. The discussion was around how the ACA is moving this nation in the wrong direction in terms of employer health benefits.Then perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension. I feel like I'm having a conversation with a five year old. You asked a dozen questions, applied no critical thinking, and then made stuff up to attempt to prove your point. Major fail.Originally Posted by?313Weather?And actually, now that I think about it, these employers?DO?have the freedom to not provide insurance (granted, they wouldn't if they want to remain competitive in retaining good employees).They'll just pay a fine on their tax bill that will go towards subsidizing those employees on the healthcare exchange and Medicare.Which is absurd, right? You're shifting the responsibility of healthcare on to employers.... most of which aren't in the healthcare field. You can't fine them for not performing a duty unrelated to their business.Originally Posted by?NJBest?Which is absurd, right? You're shifting the responsibility of healthcare on to employers.... most of which aren't in the healthcare field. You can't fine them for not performing a duty unrelated to their business.Employers took it on themselves over 60 years ago. Employer Health Insurance was a byproduct of wage freezes ordered by government, in an era when we needed more warm bodies in the workforce, due to pent up demand (post WWII) and lack of automation, so the stuff Americans like, was labor intensive to make.Did 1950 employers forsee ACA requirements?Originally Posted by?313Weather?No one's shifting anything. Just like before the ACA, the responsibility of providing healthcare still belongs to doctors. Nothing absurd about it.?And businesses are only paying a tax fine to the government if they choose not to provide health insurance. That money can be used for anything (the subsidizing of the healthcare exchange and medicare was merely an example).A tax fine is absurd because it is putting a burden on businesses. But a similar incentive for employers to provide insurance could be achieved in a much better way. Think about this. If an employer chooses not to provide health insurance, nothing happens. But if they DO decide to provide health insurance, they receive a tax deduction. That way you are not providing additional burden on the business and are still incentivizing them to provide this benefit.Originally Posted by?-Valentino-?As a hiring manager for larger corporations, I receives tons of e-mails and phone calls with resumes and bunch of cover letters that are irrelevant to the job position; lack of experience, asking for too much salary (based on their experience and job position advertising,) has crappy resumes (sometimes I take my time fixing minor changes not trying to disqualify them!) and other reasons?Please before applying for any job...-Double check your resume before submitting it![1]-Make sure your resume is not too simple; the more details - the better!-Make sure your skills are listed and relevant to the job position![2]-Having a clear and basic voice mail would be great, and LinkedIn profiles.[3]-No, we don't care if you learn new tasks quickly or love to learn - not an entry level position![4]-No, I don't want to spend my time looking at your 5 page resume when you yourself aren't even sure if you qualify for the job position?-Don't be rude when you get a declined letter - sometimes we may have something else in the future based on your experience for you. You get angry or ignore, guess what... no job for you in the future and you will start from the beginning with the annoying interview process.[5]-Don't forget a 'thank you letter'... takes a minute to write few sentences. May be easier to remember you as well.[6]-If it shows you need a type of skill(s) and you have little/no experience, don't ask if it's "ok" or make up any other excuses.-Be more formal when you write and talk... we're not in middle school or your friends/family member.[7]-Learning stuff at school is not same as work experience!-What else can I think of now?If I made my resume more detailed, I could fill 15 pages easily. There's elegance in simplicity.While people may choose to be on LinkedIn, the majority of the information should be in the resume, not a social networking site. Anyone who relies on that will likely be overlooked by most people.If you really don't value employees who learn new skills, you must have a very high turnover rate since it's essentially to keep up with changing technology. The only other way for a company to work is to just keep replacing older employees with new ones who know the skills.Maybe if you didn't expect them to be so detailed, you wouldn't be getting 5 page resumes...While it can't hurt, I doubt that a Thank You note should be consider a reason for hiring someone. If that is what got you the job, you weren't qualified.Do you have any idea how many job postings are horribly written with "Mandatory" skills that aren't possible? I've seen job postings requiring 10 years of experience using software that hasn't even been out for 5 years. Asking the hiring manager the question is valid considering how many HR people create the listings.And by the same logic, just because you've logged into a system for 10 years doesn't mean you know how to use it beyond the little piece. There are tons of people who have "used" excel for example for years, but barely know anything about it. That concept applies to all skills. "Experience" doesn't mean knowledge.Sometimes the problem is the candidates, but if you find that all the candidates have the same problem, then maybe the company/manager is the problem. While you think they're asking too high of salary, you may be getting the bottom of the barrel because you're not offering enough.Two sides to every coin...When we post minimum qualifications, that's what we mean. If you don't have 'em, don't apply. We are not desperate, we will not accept "almost" or "quick learners," you won't win us over with your charming personality and smile (we will never see you). We want what we want, and we say what we want.I always find it interesting how we use to have no underemployment with college grads and companies never complained about not being able to hire, and this is when we didn't have enough applicants, now we have 50% underemployment in college grads, 20% in STEM, and all companies do is complain when we have more than enough candidates.?I think the biggest issue is that before, companies hired college grads with no experience and developed their workforce on the job, today, every single company out there wants 2-5 years experience or they aren't willing to hire at all. Entry level pay, but not entry level experience.?Well, if every single company is not willing to hire no experience grads, it is only a matter of time (like now) where there will just not be any more people to hire except for those already working.?Biggest mistake companies are making is not developing their workforce from the ground up. What companies do today is simply not sustainable.Listen, the middle class in US is disappearing over the last several years.Millions of jobs have been shipped overseas while the US population keeps growing.Fewer jobs are available. No amount of college or training can fix this.The economy doesn't need as many people anymore. People are a liability to an efficient economy. If we could simply bar people entirely the economy would be doing great.Sometimes I think so, or it is just much harder to hit "middle class". I was told/ taught that the path to success was high school-college- entry level job (first true independence here)-Apartment/marriage/ house (though some may go marriage-apartment then house).?However here is the rub the "entry level job". For those going after nursing, engineering, accounting and the like type degrees the "entry level" job step usually is not that hard and life proceeds on as normal. But what about the people who don't have the desire or the brain power for Nursing, Accounting etc... what happens to them? Well ideally they would find some sort of entry level work (admin assistant, customer service rep, insurance rep etc...) and work their way up the company ladder. And while the customer service rep working for Progressive insurance may not be as well off as the Accounting guy working for Eisner Amper or the Nurse working for Clara Maass Hospital, the Customer service rep is still making pretty decent money (in my mind I would classify decent as 35-50K) and will be able to continue on the path.But what happens when you have many more applicants for the customer service rep position than there are openings, what happens when X company is only hiring 5 marketing assistants and you have 30 applicants? What happens when entry level desires or more often than naught requires YEARS of experience, what happens to the people who never get the "bottom of the totem pole, climb your way up the ladder position"? What happens to the people who don't have a friend, relative working for X company and instead has to hope/pray that their resume actually gets seen by real person?In my mind the greatest problem facing the middle class - is simply that there are not enough jobs to satisfy the number of job seekers, coupled with the "2-4 years needed experience in X" and yet we will still call it "entry level" , makes it an uphill battle for many.In my mind the greatest problem facing the middle class - is simply that there are not enough jobs to satisfy the number of job seekers, coupled with the "2-4 years needed experience in X" and yet we will still call it "entry level" , makes it an uphill battle for many.You nailed it. The US has outsourced middle class jobs the past several years.Soon the upper class jobs will also disappear as the US depends on consumer spending or debt and we have approached maximum debt in the US while consumer spending is on a decline/I haven't noticed that many jobs are requiring college grads. If anything, most jobs I'm seeing don't even require any schooling at all. Okay, maybe there are some management jobs that require it but most jobs aren't management jobs. I majored in economics but all I have to show for it is a crappy $14 an hour factory job. Factory jobs aren't going away and I still have one of them. I'm working at a crappy blue collar job and I just happen to have a bachelors degree. That's all.Originally Posted by?zie92mg9z?I haven't noticed that many jobs are requiring college grads. If anything, most jobs I'm seeing don't even require any schooling at all. Okay, maybe there are some management jobs that require it but most jobs aren't management jobs. I majored in economics but all I have to show for it is a crappy $14 an hour factory job. Factory jobs aren't going away and I still have one of them. I'm working at a crappy blue collar job and I just happen to have a bachelors degree. That's all.Fourteen dollars an hour is not bad. It's better than $7 or 8 an hour. I will say one thing and I forgot to put it in the OP but a lot of non-college graduates are unemployed because many college graduates have stolen so many blue collar jobs.If you're thinking in terms of the traditional definition of middle class, yes, in most areas. If you're talking about $10-$15/hr jobs in low cost areas, probably not.Originally Posted by?TPetty?It seems that it is. Less and less employers are wanting to hire non-college graduates even for positions that don't require a degree. Retailers and restaurant chains both are like that. Also so many manufacturing jobs are being outsourced to other countries and labor unions are declining. So that's my take on it.They are only going to pay what they have to ... minimum wage will work.Factory jobs aren't going awayWell they are moving to Mexico, China and elsewhere. In the US they are going away, justas the white house orchestrated it! By the way $14/hr is better than many college grads earn.It's not a accident, Ross Perot predicted this years ago and Hillary called him a kook.Originally Posted by?pappjohn?Well they are moving to Mexico, China and elsewhere. In the US they are going away, justas the white house orchestrated it! By the way $14/hr is better than many college grads earn.It's not a accident, Ross Perot predicted this years ago and Hillary called him a kook.Whoever said factory jobs aren't going away is wrong. Your right they are and I must say that Ross Perot would of made a good President. Much better than G.W. Bush.The factory jobs today require education and advanced training. They are not the "turn-a-bolt" jobs of the past. Those rote rank and file jobs have been long since automated. There is no way manufacturing could employee the same amount of people in 2016 as it did in early 20th century.Originally Posted by?s1alker?The factory jobs today require education and advanced training. They are not the "turn-a-bolt" jobs of the past. Those rote rank and file jobs have been long since automated. There is no way manufacturing could employee the same amount of people in 2016 as it did in early 20th century.Actually if you work in food processing you can get a job there with no extended education.Actually if you work in food processing you can get a job there with no extended education.True, you don't even have to speak English, Spanish will do.Originally Posted by?pappjohn?True, you don't even have to speak English, Spanish will do.Will you can get it in the US and not some Latin American country and if you know English you can still get the job.The reason why so many bad companies continue the same path because jobs are scarce or the companies make them scarce so that they can keep practicing their abusive tactics and get away with it.The reason why we need to kill Obamacare and other socialist tactics because Obama killed small business in America. Only big business provides jobs today because small business cannot afford to float the Obamacare tax so now effectively jobs are scarce and big businesses are the only ones that can dictate things. Before Obama took office we had a vibrant small business environment that hired people. Many big businesses had trouble keep and hiring people because smaller shops and startups would take hires and you had more perks from big businesses to try to retain people.Keep voting for Obamacare candidates and the next thing will be no insurance until you become just dead poor.Ok, my daughter is young. She is sixteen years old. Where we live it seems like an endless number of fast food places and stores have help wanted signs up.You know the drill. Most establishments expect applicants to fill out an application online. Than the theory is that they will call you for an interview. Most times, the call never gets made. My daughter has filled out about two dozen such applications. She has had two interviews which did not result in a job offer.Job interviews are also very interesting. Usually when you arrive there are about 20-30 other teens all dressed up waiting for their interview too. Oftentimes, the company doesn't even have time to individually interview each applicant. Interviews will take place in a group of 4 to 8 teens at a time. After the interview is completed, applicants will be told that "we'll get back to you". In both cases, she was not hired and no one even bothered to send her an email thanking her for applying.She is bright, dresses well, and acts polite. However, she is young and there seem to be plenty of applicants for these positions. The experience of getting so few chances to even interview is taking its toll on her.I'm a bit angry myself. I don't believe anyone is "entitled" to a job. However, the abundance of "help wanted" signs suggests that more jobs are available than really are. I bet hundreds of people see these signs and cannot understand why anyone remains unemployed. They probably think those who aren't hired are simply lazy.Its frustrating.....It CAN also be that she's 16.....Many FF now are looking at 18 an above. Simply as there's laws for minors and less laws for "Adults" the laws for minors are very limiting (OR/WA) that I know of...Many employers want late and open availability....Originally Posted by?Disgustedman?It CAN also be that she's 16.....Many FF now are looking at 18 an above. Simply as there's laws for minors and less laws for "Adults" the laws for minors are very limiting (OR/WA) that I know of...Many employers want late and open availability....True. They can only work limited hours after 7pm during the school year. Not being "flexible" eliminates many.A lot of those jobs are looking for people to work day shifts. There are a ton of teenagers/people looking for a second job available for night shift, but not many people wanting to work a minimum wage job during the day.I'm very concerned about jobs for young people.Growing up in the 90s and early 2000s fast food restaurants were full of teenage employees. My first job was at Zaxby's, and then Cracker Barrel after that. You rarely see that now. Our local restaurants are staffed by adults and a few college students. Target, at least regionally, is now only hiring 18 and older. I have noticed that Food Lion, a grocery store in the Carolinas and VA, does seem to employ a lot of teens. There has been a movement by a number of stores to only hire people 18+My peers and I found it very difficult to get jobs out of college and we've almost all taken entry level positions that didn't require degrees for previous generations (but possibly do now). This also applies to a few of us with Masters Degrees, even from prestigious schools like Johns Hopkins.?These are both linked and problematic. There are so many benefits to getting a job as a teenager. It annoys me greatly when older adults critisize young people for not being responsible when really the opportunity just isn't there. We are pushing moving into adulthood further and further to the right.?My grandmother told me we all have to start off at the bottom, except that I had a Masters and military experience doing something equivelent to her job with a HS diploma in the 50s. Similarly, my sister-in-law's grandmother complained at the family reunion that she wasn't trying hard enough to get a job after college, despite applying to 3 jobs a day for 6 months just to get a job as a receptionist - which you could probably get after HS, maybe even at 16 in our grandmothers' era.I sympathize with your daughter's situation. My nephews (who are close enough in age to be younger brothers) are now entering HS and I am also trying to find them jobs. Very difficult.has she tried non-fast food/chain stores? I see little shops at malls/small family stores that I could walk in and just talk to manager, ask for interview once I find out they are hiring.?The type of stores is important too, being a waitress in the evenings (since she should be in school during day hours) means dinner rush. Fast pace/more tips, and people doing it for a living will be competing for those hours. Unless she "needs" that kind of stress/money, she doesn't need that kind of job. I'd toss that out for time being. Same with fast food jobs. Also toss out other "minimum wage" jobs. Yes, she will likely be making minimum wage, but not working standard "minimum wage jobs" if that makes sense. Something like finding offices that are open into evenings, she could be the person that comes in and answers phone/stations front desk after the normal secretary left for the day. She would be responsible for cleaning up/locking up. It's slower so she can still study. Or even that person who checks people in at hair salons and sweeps up. Not much skill in this but it builds character/work ethic/pride/whatever you want to call it somewhat?I don't know how other people do it, but I've just never been shy about walking up to the manager (or even asking for one first), then asking if they were looking to hire someone and if they wanted to interview me. I've only been turned down a hand full of times for an interview. Been turned down for more jobs more than I can count. A lot of those times, even I knew right away I had a blank stare during interview. But I would thank them for their time and acknowledge that the job wasn't for me, and would also let them know if something did come up that they thought I could do, if they would consider me. No one ever called back but they said I was pleasant enough that they didn't mind taking 15-20 minutes to interview me. I do make sure I go during a slow time though, which meant if I saw it was busy, I came back later or on another day at a different time. If they want her to fill out application on computer, she will, but once they are talking, more often that not, they would just go ahead and interview her since they are both there.But being 16, I'd guess she is in high school and just looking for an afternoon/weekend job? Does she "need" the income, or is it to get her experience? Fast food isn't "experience", it's shopping/pocket money. Find out what she wants to do for a job/in college. Get a phone book/internet, and just start looking up every local company. And on weekend, just take her to each of them and have her go in and try it (take her, since I wouldn't want my daughter going to random businesses alone, just sit in car and wait though...)? I'm sure she will get turned down a lot at the beginning, but I'd guess after a month of this, she will have figured out a sales pitch which is what is important. Her being confident in herself will be her selling point. The resume part... not really all that much to include at 16. She's in high school, that's about all there is to know for resume. Sure she could include GPA/awards, etc... and they might ask about it at interview, but most 16 year olds have the same skill sets. They know how to use a computer and phone, and can be taught to do tasks. She should be looking to build confidence at this point. That she can feel like she can just walk into any place and speak her mind, and in this case ask for an interview. Yeah, I have a high confidence in myself and I kind of expect everyone else to as well. Namely, to have the backbone to stand up for something important to you and go for it.That or just have her attend church and ask people there if they are willing to hire her? Mine has a lot of professionals and business owners. Good networking opportunities... yes, I consider church a networking event and not a religious one...So you and her are frustrated about getting few chances to interview? Newsflash – that’s pretty normal.?And she is frustrated about group interviews when there are tons of applicants. Another Newsflash – that’s pretty normal too.?And you are angry about organizations not noticing how awesome your daughter is? Well, that can I say about that? It’s a competitive market. Pretty much always has been.?She’s had 2 interviews. Has she learned anything from them? Does she need to be more bubbly, more animated, does she need to research a bit more for what the specific org is looking for in an employee?When I was young, I interviewed at the Gap. It was of course a group interview. I got cut after the first round (there were multiple rounds). My personality wasn’t right. I was overpowered by the bubbly girls and metrosexual guys. I learned that if I wanted a job at the Gap (or similar place), I should go in more metrosexual (I’m a guy), smelling of good cologne, and with a personality to match. So basically, I needed to fake it – if I wanted it.You’re upset about something that is very normal and known but I guess this is your first exposure to this type of market so it is surprising and upsetting to you. Get over it fast, accept it, learn from it. That’s the best way to get the job.Best of luck.Every job area and market is different. It is definitely hard for those in high school to find employment than those who are out of school or older since they have more availability.But you should never give up on the job hunt just because your efforts have failed!The only way to get a job is to keep trying!Originally Posted by?markg91359?Ok, my daughter is young. She is sixteen years old. Where we live it seems like an endless number of fast food places and stores have help wanted signs up.You know the drill. Most establishments expect applicants to fill out an application online. Than the theory is that they will call you for an interview. Most times, the call never gets made. My daughter has filled out about two dozen such applications. She has had two interviews which did not result in a job offer.Job interviews are also very interesting. Usually when you arrive there are about 20-30 other teens all dressed up waiting for their interview too. Oftentimes, the company doesn't even have time to individually interview each applicant. Interviews will take place in a group of 4 to 8 teens at a time. After the interview is completed, applicants will be told that "we'll get back to you". In both cases, she was not hired and no one even bothered to send her an email thanking her for applying.She is bright, dresses well, and acts polite. However, she is young and there seem to be plenty of applicants for these positions. The experience of getting so few chances to even interview is taking its toll on her.I'm a bit angry myself. I don't believe anyone is "entitled" to a job. However, the abundance of "help wanted" signs suggests that more jobs are available than really are. I bet hundreds of people see these signs and cannot understand why anyone remains unemployed. They probably think those who aren't hired are simply lazy.Its frustrating.....First, do not listen to older people who criticize. Most have no clue what it is like to find a job now with respect to the young and inexperienced. They still think all you have to do is go down to the local fast food place, apply and that is that. Anyone who isn't working must not be applying etc......When we where young it really was that easy to get hired. You could go out for one hour, apply to 3 places and have a guaranteed job by the end of the week. Those days are gone, but older people still think it is that way.?The job market is terrible for people just starting out. All those fast food places say they are hiring 24/7, even when they aren't. They do that so if someone quits, they have some applicants in the pipeline.On top of all that, fast food, as well as all low wage jobs, have become long term jobs for adults. Lots of places won't even hire kids anymore.?Second, have your daughter look into all inclusive retirement homes/assisted living facilities. They have dining halls and need servers and kitchen help. These companies run on shoe string budgets and most will hire kids. Of course you only get minimum wage, but it is a start.?Good luck!Originally Posted by?th3_mountaineer?I'm very concerned about jobs for young people.Growing up in the 90s and early 2000s fast food restaurants were full of teenage employees. My first job was at Zaxby's, and then Cracker Barrel after that. You rarely see that now. Our local restaurants are staffed by adults and a few college students. Target, at least regionally, is now only hiring 18 and older. I have noticed that Food Lion, a grocery store in the Carolinas and VA, does seem to employ a lot of teens. There has been a movement by a number of stores to only hire people 18+My peers and I found it very difficult to get jobs out of college and we've almost all taken entry level positions that didn't require degrees for previous generations (but possibly do now). This also applies to a few of us with Masters Degrees, even from prestigious schools like Johns Hopkins.?These are both linked and problematic. There are so many benefits to getting a job as a teenager. It annoys me greatly when older adults critisize young people for not being responsible when really the opportunity just isn't there. We are pushing moving into adulthood further and further to the right.?My grandmother told me we all have to start off at the bottom, except that I had a Masters and military experience doing something equivelent to her job with a HS diploma in the 50s. Similarly, my sister-in-law's grandmother complained at the family reunion that she wasn't trying hard enough to get a job after college, despite applying to 3 jobs a day for 6 months just to get a job as a receptionist - which you could probably get after HS, maybe even at 16 in our grandmothers' era.I sympathize with your daughter's situation. My nephews (who are close enough in age to be younger brothers) are now entering HS and I am also trying to find them jobs. Very difficult.Just look at Europe. Lots of people don't even start their working life until into their 30s because of the high unemployment for the young.This situation is only going to get worse.?My advice to Americans, start setting up your housing situation so all family members, 3 generations worth, can live there. The days of young people moving out and becoming independent at 18-22 are gone.Also, look to start family businesses.?Family units are going to have to rely on each other more than ever.Originally Posted by?High Altitude?Just look at Europe. Lots of people don't even start their working life until into their 30s because of the high unemployment for the young.This situation is only going to get worse.?My advice to Americans, start setting up your housing situation so all family members, 3 generations worth, can live there. The days of young people moving out and becoming independent at 18-22 are gone.Also, look to start family businesses.?Family units are going to have to rely on each other more than ever.How are they not able to move out? It isn't as bad as you portray it. It doesn't that much to earn money in the USOriginally Posted by?eyeb?How are they not able to move out? It isn't as bad as you portray it. It doesn't that much to earn money in the USDo you mean in Europe it isn't that bad? Have you lived there??I agree, in the United States it isn't there yet, but getting there more and more.Unless something drastic happens, we are going to end up like Europe.Can you reiterate your last sentence.Originally Posted by?s1alker?The factory jobs today require education and advanced training. They are not the "turn-a-bolt" jobs of the past. Those rote rank and file jobs have been long since automated. There is no way manufacturing could employee the same amount of people in 2016 as it did in early 20th century.One more thing you can actually can get a factory job in other industries besides food processing without extended education. Textiles and plastics would be some examples.One more thing you can actually can get a factory job in other industries besides food processing without extended education. Textiles and plastics would be some examples.Yes, Nabisco has a plant in Mexico, go apply and see if they hire you. Obama made this happen. Posted by?pappjohn?Yes, Nabisco has a plant in Mexico, go apply and see if they hire you.As Nabisco Ships 600 Jobs Out of Chicago to Mexico, Maybe It’s Time To Give Up Oreos - Working In These TimesI knew that and I am going to start boycotting Oreos and other Nabisco products as well because of that. I remember in one post on this thread that companies that outsource should be punished and companies that build here and make their products here in the States should be rewarded. For example, Mondelez, the parent company of Nabisco, should be punished, and Leaf Brands, which makes Hydrox cookies should be rewarded. And my advice to you is to buy Hydrox instead of Oreos.Originally Posted by?pappjohn?True, you don't even have to speak English, Spanish will do.Actually, I have seen food processing jobs that?require?Spanish. It's a safety issue to be working with knives and mechanized equipment and be able to communicate with others, so when the majority of workers speak only Spanish the new hires must also.Originally Posted by?Hemlock140?Actually, I have seen food processing jobs that?require?Spanish. It's a safety issue to be working with knives and mechanized equipment and be able to communicate with others, so when the majority of workers speak only Spanish the new hires must also.They should change the requirements and have all the workers be required to speak fluent English. That is just stupid how they would have workers who don't have to know EnglishI knew that and I am going to start boycotting Oreos and other Nabisco productsMe too.They should change the requirements and have all the workers be required to speak fluent English. That is just stupid how they would have workers who don't have to know English.I agree. In my state the local Motor Vehicle Bureau has a Spanish drivers test, as hispanics were always failing the written English test. Guess what, they are now driving on roads with signs they can not read, it's crazy!The local social services has people who speak Spanish as a majority of the welfare recipients are hispanic or black.Originally Posted by?TPetty?Fourteen dollars an hour is not bad. It's better than $7 or 8 an hour. I will say one thing and I forgot to put it in the OP but a lot of non-college graduates are unemployed because many college graduates have stolen so many blue collar jobs.And that's because the jobs that those college graduates were going for have been shipped off to India or filled by an H1B holder.Originally Posted by?BigDGeek?And that's because the jobs that those college graduates were going for have been shipped off to India or filled by an H1B holder.They need to end outsourcing. It is only making employment in this country difficult. If it wasn't for all those trade agreements the political cronies signed, then jobs would be much more plentiful in this country.Originally Posted by?pappjohn?I agree. In my state the local Motor Vehicle Bureau has a Spanish drivers test, as hispanics were always failing the written English test. Guess what, they are now driving on roads with signs they can not read, it's crazy!The local social services has people who speak Spanish as a majority of the welfare recipients are hispanic or black.Your state must be putting dangerous drivers on the road and they shouldn't do that. And those Hispanic welfare recipients and drivers should either learn English and obtain bonafide US citizenship or go back to their old country.I graduated with a BS in Computer Science many years ago. I could not find a job to save my life. Eventually I just started doing my own projects and learning skills on my own, and I built up enough of a portfolio to land my first real job. After a couple of years of experience it's now incredibly easy for me to get a job almost anywhere.I actually kind?of regret even bothering with college. Not a single company I've worked for requires it. My colleagues who started in the industry right out of high school make a lot more than I do since they started in the industry much younger than I did, plus they didn't have to accumulate any student loans. And there's nothing I learned in college in my CS classes that I couldn't have easily learned myself. Most of what I had to learn for my career I ended up having to learn on my own after I graduated anyway. I imagine it's even easier these days to learn things on your own things to all the online learning resources out there.I graduated with a BS in Computer Science many years ago. I could not find a job to save my life.Welcome to Obamas economy, it hasn't changed. Going to college to get a BS degree is still a smart way to go. They do teach a variety of languages and concepts that you can use. The problem is that few people enjoy programming or are good at it.How is it Obama economy when chances is this person experience happened before Obama. If anything were living in Bush's residue.But anyway, I am a history major, graduated in December. I have been looking for a job since July to no avail. Even with administrative experience listed on my resume, employers are refusing to give me any interviews or a job?Your state must be putting dangerous drivers on the road and they shouldn't do that. And those Hispanic welfare recipients and drivers should either learn English and obtain bonafide US citizenship or go back to their old countryThe roads here are dangerous and the Motor Vehicle Bureau is always full of hispanics forcingothers to wait in long lines.We have food service companies here where maybe 1 in 3 employees speaks English well.The hispanic speaking ones work hard but they have no intentions of learning English, from what I see.Originally Posted by?Basilide?I am not sure what to make of it. Even if jobs in the field are hard to get, I found them eventually with persistence, and I am the same age. I worked in high school, I worked after high school, I worked in college and I worked after graduating.How did you get these jobs? Did you have connections or were you applying to ads in the paper and off the internet?I too was an unemployed student from 2007 - 2011, which was the year I graduated. I applied to literally everything I came across ranging from microbiology lab work to washing clothes to roofing construction. I got almost zero requests for interviews during those years and the ones that did request interviews said they got 100+ applications for the one open position.Like it or not, there is some degree of luck involved with finding work and when the odds of getting any given job are 1/100 it's entirely possible that some people will have strings of bad luck.Originally Posted by?Basilide?I was in a position to hire an intern a while ago and viewed quite a few resumes. I am also involved in a hiring process where I am viewing more resumes. This is for work that requires a degree. What has been sort of confusing is why so many resumes from younger people list a degree, and almost no employment, save part time work or summer jobs, even if they have been out of college for two, three, four years.I am not sure what to make of it. Even if jobs in the field are hard to get, I found them eventually with persistence, and I am the same age. I worked in high school, I worked after high school, I worked in college and I worked after graduating. The longest I have been without a job after 18 is six months when I first started college. Seeing blank resumes from people in their late twenties seems so off. Are these resumes the kind you might consider? Am I missing something? Are they not listing their jobs?What don't you see??Almost 4 million people graduate with a college degree every year. 75% of new job openings are part-time. How many of these new jobs require experience, or are even relevant to the field these new graduates major in? Just because you were able to find a job after college does not mean everyone does. One can be extremely persisent and not get a job for years if they lack experience.You working in high school and after high school is irrelevant because it most likely has nothing to do with the field you are in so it would look stupid to include it on a resume. You even said that some of these resumes include summer jobs or part-time work.The only thing these applicants is doing wrong is not exaggerating part-time positions and whatnot on their resume.In my day (heh, heh, sound like I am 100) kids worked in high school or some did at ice cream stores, Mickey Ds, you know. It was not uncommon for someone 14 or 15 to have a job, even cutting grass or babysitting.2015--these jobs either go to older people or as "career" jobs after high school/college or to immigrants or as second jobs to make ends meet.It's not like there are hundreds of jobs going for high school and college kids. I remember I had a friend who was 17 and she worked in an office part time. Now you'd be hard pressed to get a job like that at 17. Even with experience office jobs ARE NOT HIRING for secretaries, administrative people and accounts payable people as individual jobs but now you have to be some hybrid super worker and do 3 jobs in one.Every year it seems to me the jobs in the paper I can do are less and less. I see medical aides and nurses and some esoteric must have certification in XYZ from this specific thing to teach, but that is it. Or waitress jobs and store clerk jobs. Or seasonal work.Yes, you can be unemployed FOR YEARS yet be a perfectly competent person. Many workers just want to work. Please remember if you give someone "unemployed" a chance they may prove to be the best person you ever hired over some hot shot who claims to never have missed a day in 20 years and hasn't one gap in his or her resume.Originally Posted by?Basilide?I was in a position to hire an intern a while ago and viewed quite a few resumes. I am also involved in a hiring process where I am viewing more resumes. This is for work that requires a degree. What has been sort of confusing is why so many resumes from younger people list a degree, and almost no employment, save part time work or summer jobs, even if they have been out of college for two, three, four years.I am not sure what to make of it. Even if jobs in the field are hard to get, I found them eventually with persistence, and I am the same age. I worked in high school, I worked after high school, I worked in college and I worked after graduating. The longest I have been without a job after 18 is six months when I first started college. Seeing blank resumes from people in their late twenties seems so off. Are these resumes the kind you might consider? Am I missing something? Are they not listing their jobs?They aren't listing irrelevant jobs that they held on a resume. It's a catch 22. Do you really want to hear about their time as an assistant manager at a Target, or would you be here complaining about how unprofessional that is?You're serious, right? I went through hell and back looking for a job after college and it wss the beginning of this recession we're still in right now.Originally Posted by?Basilide?I was in a position to hire an intern a while ago and viewed quite a few resumes. I am also involved in a hiring process where I am viewing more resumes. This is for work that requires a degree. What has been sort of confusing is why so many resumes from younger people list a degree, and almost no employment, save part time work or summer jobs, even if they have been out of college for two, three, four years.I am not sure what to make of it. Even if jobs in the field are hard to get, I found them eventually with persistence, and I am the same age. I worked in high school, I worked after high school, I worked in college and I worked after graduating. The longest I have been without a job after 18 is six months when I first started college. Seeing blank resumes from people in their late twenties seems so off. Are these resumes the kind you might consider? Am I missing something? Are they not listing their jobs?Yeah you have to understand sometimes finding a job is like playing a damn lottery it involves some luck but also some skills. I actually worked at a computer lab during college and had several IT Internships. I think they were all luck based thats why i got them because I had no advance IT knowledge and just knew basic stuff and did pretty decent on the interview. So I came out of college with work experience 3 years but not all my fellow classmates had that same experience.?Its not the 90's thou please understand that when hiring a college grad. Its just not that easy getting experience as it used to beNow if they are slackers, unrealistic, or just incompetent then that's differentLook at when you interview these people, who is good, who sells themselves good, or what skills they have but don't expect too much because yea they are just recent grads.Times are very difficult for college students.College degrees are becoming more expensive, but the meaning of the degree is diminishing (4 million new graduates every year). A college degree with no experience is really not that high above a high school degree.Unless you were an absolute exceptional student (3.6+ GPA) who majored in something very career specific with tons of extracurriculars, landing a significant internship is quite competitive. If you don't have any internship experience, jumping straight into a decent paying job upon graduation relevant to your major will be extremely difficult unless you 1.) are very lucky or 2.) know somebody.I was in a lucky situation in which I majored in Accounting, had no internships, had an awful GPA, but was able to land a crappy paying Accounts Payable job with a small company off Craigslist over an hour away based on being a really good interview and exaggerating my resume. This enabled me to add even something else to my already exaggerated resume and land a good salary at a big corporation so I could work my way up.I have tons of friends back home who graduated from good universities and are now approaching 26/27 years of age and have no RELEVANT work experience.With the economy with the way it is, it shouldn't be a shocker that you see non-relevant jobs on college grad resumes. I hope you understand that now and don't pass judgement on those kids.It's certainly tough out there. It took me until last year to land a good job four years after graduating in 2010. Especially until 2012, I got rejection after rejection.The sad thing is that takes experience to get experience, and once you have quality experience, your ability to get better paying jobs seems easy. Until you get the first of that right kind of experience, you're placed in with all the others who have nothing to distinguish them from anyone else. The longer it takes to get a break, the more likely it is you'll be passed over for the most recent grads.One reason is that its very difficult to get an entry-level job unless you had that specific internship. If you don't get that internship, you are screwed.?Many "entry-level" jobs require experience that recent graduates don't have. The only way to get the experience is someone basically taking a chance on you or if you have a connection.Every month that goes by that someone isn't employed, it makes it even harder. An employer will reject you based on this, wondering why this person is unemployed and it becomes an endless cycle.When I read all these posts, I see how dire the employment situation in America has become. I wonder how much longer a nation that depends so heavily on consumer spending can economically survive with all these people unable to find work.These companies who won't hire, who outsource, and sell their nation down the river are in for a big surprise over the next 10-20 years. We are poor. Who will buy their crap? Certainly will be interesting to see these same companies crash and burn due to their own greed. In the meantime, I'm learning to spend more time living on less of the crap they sell and more time on being happy. Their future doesn't look so bright, however.Most jobs I'm seeing on the job sites are in the $8-$14 range. Good luck finding a job that pays over $15/hr in this economy. The only jobs that pay really well now are the government jobs. Might be a crap shot applying but then again it's probably worth trying.Originally Posted by?Staggerlee666?My job makes $36.5/hr just base salary. With my commissions the hourly rate is $49. Sooooo you are wrong!And where did you find such a job? I don't see many jobs paying that much around here so I hardly think your case is typical. Median wage is around $16/hr and falling in my state.In inflation adjusted dollars the average US income is lower than it was 10 years ago, so don't be too picky. If you can find a gov't job, take it!Steady job growth in August does little to change a heated debate over the health of the economy.Job growth in August continued apace with recent trends, according to data released by the Bureau of Labor Statistics on Friday. But consistency does not mean lack of controversy: The health of the economy remains the subject of heated debate.?Are There Enough Jobs? Depends Who You Ask.Full employment recession over????Government lies?Reality isLow wage jobs with no benefitsInstead of better payInsteadLots of easy credit encouraging debt slaveryLike silly mindless children we buy it allLook mommy free candyIn my state of Tennessee Gov. Bill Haslam wants low paying jobs. But these jobs have no future when it comes to higher pay or living wage.?Haslam administration touts 'low-cost labor' in Tennessee - "Why is there never talk of cutting back the work week? Like, ever? It's the obvious solution to the quandary of too many workers/too few work hours."The Obama administration did that with Obamacare. Many businesses cut back to under 30 hours so they would not be forced to spend $300,000 to buy insurance for their employees. Most small businesses could not afford the hit so the employees took the hit.There are few good paying jobs left for average, middle class people in 2016. The help wanted signs are for minimum wage or less. Ten years ago things were different. Millions of jobs have been outsourcesd overseas, the past several years.I was a retail manger at a major department store, and yes, and we had constant job "openings". Want to know why? Because we paid virtually nothing, no benefits, guaranteed any where from "0" to just 15 hours per week of minimum wage pay, and wanted people to have unlimited work schedule availability for that measly amount of crumbs! That's why I got out of retail. We did nothing but interview, train, lose workers, interview again, train, lose workers, and I didn't blame them for quitting one bit. They were better off on welfare and food stamps.Originally Posted by?andywire?I have seen help wanted signs in front of restaurants, pizza joints, retail places, wood shops, machine shops, fabrication and welding shops, etc, etc. Often times, these help wanted signs stay up for months. This is not unique to my state from what I have heard and experienced.A lot of shops are not really hiring, they are creating lists for jobs further down the road. We will call you if you are chosen jobs. Like replacements for a strike. And people have various skills that may or may not relate to the task at hand. You might be a stick welder, but can't run a mig machine, or pass a test for heavy metal welding. A cabinet maker but can't run a lathe. That is why you will find want ads in your local area for jobs that are 50-100 miles away from you.Every job I've ever had has included role creep. I prefer it - can shape the job and also become more valuable within the organization. I see it as an opportunity even though there are times it can be difficult to balance workload.There comes a point when you get tired of thinking you will be more "valuable" to the company an just plain be taken advantage of. At some point you have to say, "Enough is enough". Don't be stupid and continue to let the employer take advantage of you with more and more work and outside of your department as well for NO extra pay.?You start to let them throw more and more responsibilities on you and it becomes EXPECTED. Don't do anything extra for free.People will try and rationalize saying, "Well Im learning more and more of this and increasing my value" but the sad reality is they have snatched a SUCKER and you're being bamboozled. You'll end up doing the job of 5 people for the price of one.Sure it MAY save you from the chopping block come layoff time but it also may not and either way you're aren't getting extra money for killing yourself.I see too many idiotic SUCKERS with this mentality thinking it will pay off and it rarely to NEVER does. They just end up getting disgruntles, pissed off, and leaveYes - at my previous employer, our job started out as basically support personnel. Over time, our manager committed us to tasks that more senior personnel had been doing routinely, with little training and of course no pay increase.Yes, absolutely. Over the last 2 years this is happened to me. I am about ready to move on now though. Tired of no promotion. I am giving it til Fall, then moving on hopefully. I would like to look for more pay, although companies are SO cheap now.There are two types of role creep. The first is when you hire an employee and state, "we will just start them off with X to get their feet wet, then give them y and z when they are up to par." The employee starts and assumes that they will only do X and they get comfortable with it. They then gripe when theyre given Y and Z and wonder where their raise is.?The second type is legitimate role creep where someone leaves and the manager is told there is no room in the budget to hire. So they assign the work to....ta da!!! You!I am so very tired of hearing the same pieces of condescending advice from employed people.1. Take a job, any job. Forget about the fact that most employers these days think that $8-10.00/hour is a "competitive wage"2. Go back to school. As if I could afford it, and even if I could, no major guarantees a job. STEM majors are not the saving grace that people make them out to be.3. Networking. This one is really irritating. You can't ask directly if people are?hiring, you have to do "informational interviews" and dance around the fact that you're looking for a job. Employers are more interested in talking to people when they aren't hiring.4. Volunteer/Intern. I do volunteer work myself and I like it, but it costs money to do it. I don't mind working for free but I need a real job.5. Be Positive. When you've been out of work for a year or more, its really hard to be cheerful. Doing it in interviews is one thing, but on a daily basis, I don't feel like having putting on a "happy face"I can sooooo relate! I'm tired of morons looking at me, like I'm some under achieving dumb ass, who doesn't know how to fit in with the system! [It's RIGGED}. Tired of morons, who seemingly go through life with teflon, never having to look for another job just to survive! And they think they know everything, when in reality, they don't know jack! I'm tired of watching neighbors with no extended?education, live in?financial?comfort, with not a worry. And neighbors with their?college?for "nothing" degrees,?driving?by in their foreign cars, thinking themselves superior in?intelligence?and accomplishments,and when something breaks at home or goes wrong, their clueless to solve the problem!! I reckon it would be easier to tell people, you're gay, than to say you're out of a job! I'm tired of a population that seems to be the most UNINFORMED, CLOSED MINDED, Dumb Bots, who lack the ability to do critical thinking, and question the propaganda being shoved in their faces by the Corporate hack media machine. You wave Old Glory in some peoples faces, and they're still mesmerized. What ever was fought for and won, by the?labor?movement and winning of WW2.....IT'S GONE NOW!! Hence, it's time for people to fight back against the elites, and take our country back. If anyone still believes Democracy is still in place, you are delusional!Tired of hearing:1) Everything happens for a reason or things could be worse. Should I punch you now or later?2) I'd just get a job at McDonald's if I had to. Sure you would. Let me laugh when you do.3) You should sell your artwork. Yeah, because everyone has money to throw around right now.4) Did you try _________ company? No, I don't think I ever heard of the biggest printing company in WI even though I won a scholarship from them and the building I attended classes in is named after them. You're such a genius for suggesting I apply there.5) You really sent out that many resumes? Wow.6) You should just take a job doing something else. Yeah, just throw out that degree in the garbage.7) You should just?design?projects for free until you can get a foot in the door somewhere. Because that will make people value you even more by working for free. You never see an?electrician?working for free until they find a job, so why should I?John in Catonsville, Maryland said:?People who supposedly keep up with currentevents?asking how my job hunt is going (and guess what... they are typically employed)All the lies about the job market, i.e. X number of jobs were created last month with NO mention of what types of jobs or where (retail, part time, low pay, etc)Being rejected for even menial positions for whatever reason (too old, you'll just get bored and move on [how the H do you know that without talking to me])Expected to take ANY thing, just to have "some" money coming in with no regard to other considerations and related expenses (while being rejected for those positions, see above)Start adding more while I come up with some more......I know exactly what you are talking about! I dont even pass the phone interview! Supposed to call back today ~ what do they do? Send a rejection email! Sit here wondering what in the world I said wrong! Seems like the retail jobs are being bombarded and now they are getting past that fussy point! TWO interviews for a retail job that doesnt pay more than $8.00 anhr! Somethings gotta give! Been out of work now i yr 6 months! What? Im condemned now? NEED A JOB!eman resu in Wilmington, Delaware said:?-Being told on interviews that I would be a good fit, being given benefit packet info...yet no call back or job?-Family members and friends who--no matter what you do--will insist you haven't done enough to find a job?-Getting rejected for low-level retail jobs yet having to hear people ask "why don't you just get a retail job?"?-Misleading jobs that turn out to be nothing like the ad or was discussed in the interview, making them a poor fit and waste of time?-The modern requirement of impossibly tedious and time-consuming online applications along with anxiety-provoking wait times to complete drug, criminal and employment background checks only adds to an already stressful job hunting process?-Filling out online applications and hearing nothing back?-Reading so-called advice like "10 steps to getting your next job" and it's all crap you've heard and/or tried before to no avail?-Interview questions like "what have you been doing since being laid off"...the implication being that if you're not out volunteering like Mother Teresa you must be lazy!?-Receiving multiple email messages from job boards "you have 20 new jobs waiting" and not one of them is remotely close to the job you originally applied to or your background?-FAKE JOB POSTINGSYou said it all thats for sure and I agree! Anybody moving to Atlanta? THERES NO JOBS HERE! Its awful what they put people thru! WOW! So glad to hear someone else say it! The old days were so much better where they put an add in the paper and a phone #! Personality tests are my favorite! 100 Questions to work in the Family Dollar store! THEN asked if I can unload a truck (Im an older female) Guess thats why I didnt get one! $7.25 an?hr?to boot!I am feeling you John and all the replies. I was bounced from my last jobdriving?a special needs bus in Fed. 2011because a crook deliberately hit the bus and I was blamed. I have been homeless, bouncing to and fro, between friends who inevitably lose patience, assuming that I don't try hard enough. And although humiliating, there may be some truth in that.?Lack of results, rejection begets dejection as depression invites discouragement. Add in some age and a tad of racism and one can, if not careful, begin to feel futile. Obsolete as insensitive employers seem to favor machines, youth, foreigners even women, instead of Joe Blows like me.designer?bee in Waukesha, Wisconsin said:?Tired of hearing7) You should just?design?projects for free until you can get a foot in the door somewhere. Because that will make people value you even more by working for free. You never see an?electrician?working for free until they find a job, so why should I?About this one Bee, its not your fault (well none of it is, but espicially this one)?Creative?types like us are always expected to work for free on the promise of "exposure" Design has become undervalued. A lot of people think they can do it because they've screwed around on photoshop a couple of times. When there is so much more than that.So because of this narrow minded way of thinking a lot of companies want to find a "ninja" who knows the entire adobe suite forwards and backwards and two or three programming languages. It takes months to learn one language, and years to master it. All for at least 35k.Rosalynd in Cookeville, Tennessee said:?Perhaps you, and others, do not mean to come off this way, but you sound self-entitled and it makes me cringe. This post (and much of this forum) does nothing but drip and promote negativity. This is nothing but a bitter rant that is neither helpful or productive. People come to this forum for career advice, not to see the lot of you rant.I have 6 years of?college, 2 degrees, 15 years of work experience, and I'm smarter than the average bear. I've missed two days of work IN MY ENTIRE LIFE, both with high grade fevers. I don't THINK I'm entitled...I AM entitled. And I'm constantly kept down by people who are dumber than me, lazier than me, and ignorant to the conditions that exist on the front lines of employment today. They want to stay fat and lazy, constantly going through candidates that don't work out because they choose people who have no work ethic? More power to them. I'll be here when they want someone who is actually going to work out. I'm not being disqualified because I don't qualify. I'm being disqualified because the?hiring?manager is afraid that I'm going to take their job and send THEM to the curb within a year of my start date.I know this is an old thread but I feel you I am in that boat right now and I have been since I started my seasonal job. I have been looking everywhere. Ended up with another seasonal job while on my off season with the other seasonal job that of course didn't last because it was also seasonal/part time. I have applied to over 300 jobs! With interviews I have had I can count on one hand? I have tweaked and twerked my resume a million times, adding key words etc. I mean the ones I can count on my hand must have been from that twerking and tweaking...but friends and family kill me with the have you did this have you applied here, did you contact a temporary agency...and all I can do is think No Crap! What do you think I'm doing all day long. So being petty I screen shot my emails per my folders "jobs applied to" and posted it. Hmph! Now do you see? It drives me crazy. It also drives me crazy that the same people know of places?hiring?but won't tell me where exactly?KC24 in Silver Spring, Maryland said:?I haven't been without a job for years im only 23 , but im continually surfing through the pool of part-time, no benefits type of jobs. I have?college?loans out my butt and around the corner. It would be nice to have a job where I could at least take care of myself. I mean , eating , living in a one bedroom , paying my loans that would be nice"Out my butt and around the corner" LOL there's one I've not heard since I was a kid and I'm old enough to be your mum. ;DYes, those things would be "nice" but they're no longer realistic. Not in this era, not in this country. The reality is that most people of our generations live with their parents or like 10 other roommates, are horribly in debt and often forgo buying groceries to pay the bills. This is the future of America sadly, and I see it being a long time before that changes.uptoyou in providence, Rhode Island said:?Stop focusing on other people and what they have or don't - there is no major conspiracy against you. When people ask how the job hunt is going in 99% of the cases I guarantee you they are just trying to make conversation or they have a genuine interest in how you are doing. You are just hyper sensitive to it right now because you are frustrated in your job search.99% are trying to make conversation? That is a pretty high percentage. But I disagree. I don't think that many people actually care. Most of them are being nosy and want to have something to gossip to others about. If they want to help why not offer up help or a valid job lead? If they can't do that then maybe they should not open their mouth. Of course people are sensitive to constantly being asked "How the job search is going" like a broken record. People get tired of it especially when it is not followed up with help or a job lead.Mike in Los Angeles, California said:?Employers are very very very dishonest and you have to be willing to be just as dishonest.Employers are some of the most unethical, dishonest cretins around. They don't want you to pull the wool over their eyes. They want power. They like to see you sweat when you are in the interview seat. They are not entirely honest about the job. They lie like a rug. This is why some applicants lie just so they will have a fighting chance. Employers want to control the game and the players(applicants).Ruby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada said:?Job hunting is one of the most humiliating things one can go through. In addition, to all the why questions, you have to ask yourself how you got here and what can you do to try and prevent this from happening again.I think job maintenance is really the key. Whether you were laid off, outsourced or fired, you played or didn't play some part in this. What are you going to do next time so you don't have to go through this job hunting crap again?The sad thing is that there is nothing you can do to prevent it. Hard working, loyal people lose their jobs all the time. Employers are not loyal and so therefore from now on I am not going to be loyal to them. They get what they give. You don't want to give pay raises, well see ya! I am not sticking around waiting on some employer to become a decent human being. I will move on.I have no doubt that some are still out of work because they are unemployed. There is no rhyme or reason to employers these days. Usually if one needs a job and could reasonably do it with some development, back then you could get a job. Now if your experience is not up to date or as they call it "recent" they won't hire you. Instead they will lie to you and state that they went with another candidate even if you had such experience 10 years ago. If it isn't recent they could care less.Most companies won't hire people from other states for entry level jobs. The ones that do are usually offering jobs that most people don't want to do, and usually there is a very good reason for that. Of course, there are always exceptions.?You should be applying right now. Companies can take months to go through the hiring process.?If a company offers an interview, but expects you to fly there on your own dime, request to do the interview over Skype. There is no reason to drag people out of state for first interviews when the company isn't paying.As far as I am concerned Hillary is just another Chicago Democrat (we went to the same high school) and trust me their track record of being helpful to the middle class or really anyone at all other than government unions leaves much to be desired. Cruz I believe has said he'd suspend the program for at least 180 while it is investigated.Otherwise h1b has become a deal breaker issue for me and indicator issue on whether or not the candidate intends to represent working Americans.Trump is looking more and more like my man.But let's get real folks.Political types are infamous for flip flopping and wilting. Trump may talk big but can he seriously follow through? It's not like he can change policies on his own right? He needs support of both parties to change legislation no? You all see where I'm coming from?Originally Posted by?High Altitude?For lots of reasons why there appears to be a lot of jobs, but not much hiring. Here are the two biggest for low wage jobs.?1) They never take the signs down, even when not hiring, so if someone quits, they will have some fresh applications to consider.2) They aren't willing to hire the people that are available so they never hire. Most jobs have unrealistic requirements now, even minimum wage jobs. It is not like it use to be where if you could do the job, you where hired.I agree with the unrealistic job requirements. It seems today most companies are extremely picky for the candidate that they are looking to hire.Some job requirements I see looks like they are looking for someone that is retired. A Director position is looking for someone with 20 years of experience in a very specific niche skill with various other requirements which explains why most high level positions remain open for years because the companies are so freaking picky and think the perfect candidate will show up eventually. The companies aren't willing to compromise for a candidate that only has 2/3 of what they are asking for.?Even entry level professional jobs are asking for 3-5 years of experience on some software or skills that haven't even been out that long.As for the retail jobs with help wanted signs, most of those jobs are low paying, offer zero benefits, and only offer about 20 hours a week and you have to be available any time of the week. The average adult cannot live on that type of job.* Tens of millions of unemployed to choose from, millions of them with college educations in every discipline imaginable* Tons of applicant tracking software products where they can learn anything they want about candidates. Along with LinkedIn, Facebook, reference checks, psychological tests, 6-hour intervieww, etc., endless opportunities opportunities to harass and snoop on candidates.* People willing to work or peanuts, sometimes even for free so they can gain experienceAnd yet we still hear employers complain about not being able to find any qualified candidates. Are employers expecting perfect Americans with 10 yrs of experience to be served to them on a silver platter?Absolutely. Especially since employers have decided that they no longer need to train workers. They just keep posting for purple squirrels and playing tug of war with the same aging workers.Also they complain about talent shortages when they can't find that purple squirrel, willing to take a pay cut, who is also fun to hang out with for the manager, and can get past all HR's quackery.I have zero sympathy for companies that claim they can't find good workers.Originally Posted by?DavidRudisha?* Tens of millions of unemployed to choose from, millions of them with college educations in every discipline imaginable* Tons of applicant tracking software products where they can learn anything they want about candidates. Along with LinkedIn, Facebook, reference checks, psychological tests, 6-hour intervieww, etc., endless opportunities opportunities to harass and snoop on candidates.* People willing to work or peanuts, sometimes even for free so they can gain experienceAnd yet we still hear employers complain about not being able to find any qualified candidates. Are employers expecting perfect Americans with 10 yrs of experience to be served to them on a silver platter?Yes. They will take advantage anyway they can.Originally Posted by?Hemlock140?I am not seeing the so-called problem finding good candidates, but we do require a lot of experience. In some cases as many as 10 years. We still get lots of applicants, but rarely are they out of work, most are already employed elsewhere.?It's not a matter of being "brats", it's simply good business to hire someone with the skills and experience that can make a significant contribution immediately. As long as such candidates are available there is no need to lower the hiring standards. It's no longer the 1990s when employers were fighting over the recent graduates and offering all kinds of benefits/incentives to attract them except for the bigger tech companies. Those are the ones complaining about the lack of good workers, and they are not likely to hire the people with no experience who are complaining about no jobs.This will pose a serious problem in 5-10 years once the Boomers start retiring in full force. There will be a serious skills/experience shortage among the younger generations, because very few gave them a chance and allowed them to develop their skills and experience. The problem with a lot of organizations is that they're run by old school, crusty, short-sighted, "this is the way it's always been done" individuals who couldn't care less about long term development and growth.?I guess it's cyclical. Companies will once again be paying through the nose for mediocre talent.Of course they have. As has been stated numerous times on here, Employers want something for nothing these days and due to the transitioning of the economy becoming essentially an employer's market, companies have begun to realize they can maximize their profit earning while underpaying their employees and treating them like garbage. And until we begin to get these sociopaths out of power in high end positions of these companies nothing will ever change.?How many companies today do you see operating on a skeleton crew and working their employees to death these days? A TON!!Everyone is breaking their backs today only for a select few to run to the bank with a buttload of cash.?Changes need to be made at the TOP not the bottom or there will NEVER be any real changes for the better. You don't swat at the mosquitoes, you have to drain the swamp.Since it has turned into an employer's market, companies can call all the shots and abuse their privileges all they want. There is no system of checks and balances in place.Ever since they have came up with this nonsense of "Oh Corporations are people" they have been given the Greenlight to abuse all the privileges they wantNot in my industry. So many business owners are trying to retire. They never bothered to pay enough to attract the kind of people who would actually buy their businesses. So now, they are stuck. They couldn't give their businesses away if they tried.?Oh ya, and most of the young workers don't know how to do diddly squat cause no one trained them. That, and the wages suck. People don't want to learn professions that lead to inevitable financial woes.Average age in my industry is about 50. So ya, kinda late to turn this choo choo around...America's infrastructure is shot. Nobody left to fix it. Not a good position for a nation to be in.Originally Posted by?eyeb?I don't get this employee market thinking some want. Unless they want to be self employed, no one is going to hire people without any standards. They want to negotiate more? Then do it, nothing is stopping them. Want to pick your employer? Then pick which ones you apply to and accept.Nothing has changed from before. It's the people like the OP that seems to expect to get something for nothing. They want better pay but not do the work to negotiate for it. They want a good job but the same people say things like shotgun applications and accept any job.I don't think the complaint is about having standards. We all have those, and typically within reason. It's that the standards have reached absurd levels.It's like the 300 lb whale without an education or job who wants to date someone with a toned, firm body who's also educated and makes six-figures. A lot of companies suck and offer very little outside of a mediocre salary, but they all want superstar employees to work for them.Yeah, too many employers want perfection, yet only offer minimum wage. It ain't happening.I agree with you. It seems like us employees hunt for jobs while they hunt for unicorns.Heavy government regulation is the only thing that will ever work. Reward companies that hire and train new graduates and punish companies that try to poach or low ball experienced workers. Businesses should serve society, not the other way around.In some ways, yes.Here are the requirements for an?unpaid?internship.Skills & Education Requirements?Strong attention to detail?Experience hand coding at least 3 of the following: HTML5, CSS3, PHP, MySQL, Javascript (Highly preferred), jQuery (highly preferred), and Ajax (highly preferred)?Experience working with WordPress or Drupal content management systems?Experience developing plugins and themes is highly desirable?Understanding of graphic optimization and browser limitations?Strong time management skills?Strong verbal communication skills?Experience planning and conducting usability and browser tests?Knowledge of databases and creating custom web applications?Ability to integrate third party APIs into websites?Handle stressful situations and deadline pressures well?Understanding of 508 Compliance principles is highly desirable?Knowledge of working with FTP access and other server side options?Strong grasp of modern web standards and code validationIT Internship - Web Development Intern - 1868818This isn't an isolated case either. There are many more like it.I dont know about being spoiled brats, but this is an excellent time to be an employer. They can jerk job candidates around, screw them on pay, and treat employees like garbage once hired and get away with it. People put up with all sorts of crap from employers because the alternative is facing a potentially long period of unemployment and becoming impoverished. The unemployment rate is low now simply because many of the long-term unemployed are no longer collecting benefits so they aren't a part of the official unemployment number.Originally Posted by?statisticsnerd?I dont know about being spoiled brats, but this is an excellent time to be an employer. They can jerk job candidates around, screw them on pay, and treat employees like garbage once hired and get away with it. People put up with all sorts of crap from employers because the alternative is facing a potentially long period of unemployment and becoming impoverished. The unemployment rate is low now simply because many of the long-term unemployed are no longer collecting benefits so they aren't a part of the official unemployment number.IMO this is largely due to "Right to Work" laws.Originally Posted by?statisticsnerd?I dont know about being spoiled brats, but this is an excellent time to be an employer. They can jerk job candidates around, screw them on pay, and treat employees like garbage once hired and get away with it. People put up with all sorts of crap from employers because the alternative is facing a potentially long period of unemployment and becoming impoverished. The unemployment rate is low now simply because many of the long-term unemployed are no longer collecting benefits so they aren't a part of the official unemployment number.If things in our society continue, business as usual, it will?always?be an excellent time to be an employer. What happens when the boomers retire? Those jobs either disappear or go to cheaper immigrants. Race to the bottom, baby.Originally Posted by?Jabronie?IMO this is largely due to "Right to Work" laws.I think you mean at will employment laws.I think that companies (HR specifically) have forgotten what education means. It means that youre smart enough to be able to learn new things. A smart person can generally figure out any role that isnt "too" specialized. It used to be that if you had a bachelors or masters degree in ANYTHING you would be able to find meaningful work. Now companies insist that you have a degree in that exact role and experience in that exact role (read we dont want to train you). So yes, companies are spoiled brats.What gets to me is the fact that they won't hire you unless you have experience, but how can anyone have experience if they're never hired!Thank god, I finally found a company that was willing to give me a chance. I had to relocate for them, but I was more than willing to at this point since I have been in between jobs for almost three years now.?I think employers have some unrealistic expectations of what the workforce looks like now.It's a complicated issue.There is no employer/employee loyalty anymore. A company can spend money and time training someone, only to have them leave afterwards. There is little incentive to train people. On the other hand, often the only way to get raises is to job hop. Why would someone want to stay and work for less??So we see a shuffling of people who are already employed.?People used to have job experience that started in highschool. Now, even college graduates have probably never had a job before. That is scary to older people that are hiring. There are many different reasons why teens aren't working, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.?I have new teachers that don't understand that you have to work for a few weeks before you get paid. Every single year, a few panic over waiting two weeks.i guess they think you get paid the day you show up? I worked as a day care teacher for many year, and worked myself up from a helper teacher to a PK teacher in college. I had 6 years work history before even graduating from university, and most of it related to my field.?Eventually as the boomers retire, there will be more demand for unexperienced workers. It's coming.Originally Posted by?DavidRudisha?And yet we still hear employers complain about not being able to find any qualified candidates. Are employers expecting perfect Americans with 10 yrs of experience to be served to them on a silver platter?It's justification from employers to bring in someone on a work Visa, pay them peanuts and work them to death. If they complain, fire / deport them, get another. There more than enough qualified applicants to fill any job, but why pay when you can get someone else at half the pay and work them twice as hard.Originally Posted by?DavidRudisha?* Tens of millions of unemployed to choose from, millions of them with college educations in every discipline imaginable* Tons of applicant tracking software products where they can learn anything they want about candidates. Along with LinkedIn, Facebook, reference checks, psychological tests, 6-hour interview, etc., endless opportunities opportunities to harass and snoop on candidates.* People willing to work or peanuts, sometimes even for free so they can gain experienceAnd yet we still hear employers complain about not being able to find any qualified candidates. Are employers expecting perfect Americans with 10 yrs of experience to be served to them on a silver platter?It's true. It depends upon the discipline though. For example we need more kids to go into engineering. They tried to make it popular among kids in school but there is a shortage of qualified, capable engineers. Same for female computer scientists. These are examples I know because I worked in these two fields, but Im sure there are people who could come up with examples from their fields of activity.Originally Posted by?blisterpeanuts?People who complain about employers, about hiring practices, about pay rates and benefits -- remember that you are free to start your own business and run it your way!- You can pay all the taxes you wish, to support all those wonderful bloated public programs.?- You can hire the first yahoo that applies, and write long, detailed compassionate letters to all the other applicants explaining why you were unable to hire them.?- You can trust unskilled, inexperienced people to quickly learn the ropes.?- You can hire ex-cons because it's insensitive not to.?- You can prefer to hire people of color, regardless of qualification, because you owe it to them.- You can pay people really high salaries and guarantee them a lifetime job- You can invite unions to come in and organize your employees- When your municipal government decides to raise your taxes or fees in order to fund increased salaries, corruption and nepotism, etc., you can just meekly go along.Do all that stuff, and then come back and let us know how it's going! We'll hold a place for you at the bankruptcy court which is where you'll be spending a lot of your time.?Yea because everyone can just start to their own business and make a ton of money and live a great comfortable life? Do you the know success rate for the first year or those who start up a business? It aint very good. How about the money that it takes to start up your own business??Why should WE have to start our business because these scumbag management teams at companies can abuse their power and do whatever they want, insult prospective educated, knowledgeable employees with TERRIBLE insulting wages and little benefits etc.?Why do the employees have to eat dirt and make drastic life changes? Why can't these lousy employers put better people in charge?All employees want is to be treated fairly and be appreciated by their employers, make a good living, and maybe get some good perks here and there. I don't think thats too much to ask. Especially when you see these companies make record profits. How many millions or billions do do these greedy execs need?Originally Posted by?DavidRudisha?* Tens of millions of unemployed to choose from, millions of them with college educations in every discipline imaginable* Tons of applicant tracking software products where they can learn anything they want about candidates. Along with LinkedIn, Facebook, reference checks, psychological tests, 6-hour intervieww, etc., endless opportunities opportunities to harass and snoop on candidates.* People willing to work or peanuts, sometimes even for free so they can gain experienceAnd yet we still hear employers complain about not being able to find any qualified candidates. Are employers expecting perfect Americans with 10 yrs of experience to be served to them on a silver platter?They can find qualified candidates, of course, in this information saturated world where we have the highest number of college grads in US history..... The real question is, can they find them at the bargain basement prices they want to pay for them??Not unless they go with outsourcing firms, contractors, foreign visa sponsorship and restructuring positions to be part-time with no benefits, instead of full time!Employers are seriously delusional. Most companies now are so cheap and lazy that they don't want to train anyone anymore. You almost have to completely lie just to get a damn interview. And good luck if you're a minority...Originally Posted by?oldtrader?This is exactly the reason that companies are getting choosy and particular who they hire. This is the attitude of so many of the young workers today. They want a company to hire them, go to the time, expense, and loss of production as they learn wile training them, and as soon as they are up to full production level and earning their salary they panies have come to the conclusion as long as they are not training someone to work for them, and that person will leave as soon as they can find another job, why hire anyone that is not ready to go to work and can produce the work from day 1. That is the only way that they are going to get their money's worth of work from the new hire.?Mod cut.?It was a lot different when I was in the corporate world, and hired a lot of young people, who were looking for a career with your company. Your company could afford to spend the time and trouble to hire young people, and go to the expense to spend time, money and take the trouble to train them as you are training your future work force.?Mod cut.As long as people are available that someone else has trained, why hire someone and train them to work for someone else. That does not make financial sense.Actually, one of the biggest problems in today's workforce is the lack of training. Every person, regardless of the job and level, will require some kind of training when they take on a new job. Every company has their own flavor and method for doing things. It's the people who go into a job thinking they know everything and don't require training that are difficult to work with. It's the responsibility of the hiring manager to ensure each of his / her people are properly trained.?Companies/hiring managers are picky because they can afford to be. If there happened to be more jobs than people then you'd see how quickly they would adjust their expectations.Originally Posted by?eyeb?And even if the boom is over, recent grads don't understand that they can't just cruise through life with little effort... But they seem to want high paying jobs early in their careers and an easy office jobWtf are you talking about? Seriously, how dilusional do you have to be to believe this? Most recent grads are getting crappy jobs or taking unpaid internships just get a foot in the door. Most recent grads "expect" to get entry level jobs, which now require 3+ years of experience. I have a Mechanical Engineering degree from a top university and I still had to take a below entry level lab job to get where I am. Is it wrong for me to expect an entry level job after I paid so much money and put in so much work to develop the skills that I know now? Go out in the real world, for once, and maybe you'll understand how terrible the conditions are for college graduates. Maybe you can develop a sense of empathy while you're at it.Originally Posted by?eyeb?yes but why do you want the company to be the first to walk down that street? Why not stick with the same company and show them you can move up the ladder?Because most companies don't give adequate raises. It's more profitable to get a different jobs every 2-5 years than to stick with the same company that might give you a 2% raise every year.They will continue on this course unless something or someone stops them.The day of employers being made to think of anyone but themselves is gone.So when you go to work today,think of only showing up to earn a paycheck,nothing more.When did the world get dumb.Your employer is thinking of his family not yours.Why do you think the Mafia does it the way they do.Grow up people,life and the world are a simple place.People only try to make it something else.It takes no big words,no college,no training and no government group to figure any of this out.Yet we have all kinds trying to.Look,you eat,****,enjoy,sleep and repeat.Only people that make it hard for you to do this are a problem in life.The Mafia takes care of those.Your employer takes care of those.The government takes care of those.Now all you have to do is take care of those.Some people already are.You read about them in the news every day.I work in IT. I have had my job outsourced 3 times. In one case, it went overseas. The other two cases it stay here, but went to H1-B visa holders.Big business has persuaded politicians, perhaps through campaign contributions, that there is a shortage of tech workers. Total BS.I consider myself a democrat, but let me tell you, Hillary Clinton is not on the side of the worker. She is on Bill and Hillary's side. Things will only get worse under her.?Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren!Am I ranting? Maybe.Balance tips from employers to applicants/employees in cycles, or it has. Now with imported manufactured goods, and offshored software development, the employers may have a firmer grip on the market.In the IT industry, natural market forces are upset by H1B visas. The scenario has been described in this thread. Employer posts positions requiring a high set of skills for low pay. They don't get applicants. Then they show that as proof there is a labor shortage, and they are allowed H1B workers, educated at a lower cost overseas. At the same time, they lay off senior workers, while claiming to want the new ones for different skills, but will train the new workers to perform the jobs made vacant by the layoffs. At the same time, the company compromises on the minimum skills, because that is what they can get when they actually get applicants at the salary they want to pay.You would wonder why not just hire everyone offshore, but that would require offshore management, with different time zones, different culture, and less control from the corporate level.When employers pay too low, employees do switch jobs. That is a market force doing its part in the equation. Everyone has to provide some level of training in their way of doing things, so the thought that higher education can replace that is a fallacy.Originally Posted by?oldtrader?But the big questions are: "What do you have to offer my company? Do you have education and experience doing the job I need filled?If you can't answer those two questions to my satisfaction, why would I hire you when I can hire another man/woman that has the education and experience to do the job from day one?The answer is I will hire the other person every time. This is same answer that I would have given back 50 years ago when in the corporate world.?There are always some low paid starter positions around. They are low paid, because the employer does not expect a lot from the employee, and will take them on and train them. Remember these trainees, can actually cost the employer more than the experienced workers are paid. They have to factor in, training costs, lower production output, more management time, etc. The problem is, so many out of college think they know it all, and expect experienced employee wages even if it is a beginning bottom of the rung position.?The big question is, "Why would any company not hire well-qualified persons, over someone that knows nothing about doing the job?" The answer is, no intelligent HR department or HM will hire the less qualified candidate. It is actually cheaper for the employer to hire the well qualified at a higher salary, than to hire the beginner at a starter wages.OH but that's what you and so many others here do not get. Many employers nowadays expect a lot more from starter employees and entry-level applicants than they did in your day. The qualifications for these starter positions require that you have to have at least one year or more of hands on experience among other things and not paying a reasonable wage. That's the point of this thread. The standards are unreasonable. Expecting too much for too little and wondering why employers are having problems finding quality talent.es, they have. There is no "skills gap" - that's a myth. The reality is that companies want rock-star employers with laughably narrow experience often unique to one industry or company, and then they also expect to pay you peanuts and/or give you zero job security.I could write a book on this nonsense from back in the days when I was between jobs, but it was insane. You had jobs that required years of experience in one specific industry and one specific CAD tool... which basically meant that the only people qualified were those who worked for that company - even the competitors may have used a different CAD tool, so that might not work out. You had ones that wanted insane combinations of experience: a dual mechanical engineer + electrical engineer with years of experience in doing exactly what that company does... which, again, means anyone not working there wasn't qualified.?Then, you had the endless temp jobs - I've seen idiocy up to and including "temp work" for aircraft structural analysts... because that's a logical place to skimp on budget and job security... who cares if the plane falls out of the sky provided we save a few bucks up front.?Next up is the non-skill based idiocy. Again, I've seen everything from being called "too old" to work as an engineer at a company - in my mid 30's - to being flat-out told "we don't hire the unemployed." Because that makes sense... next up, a restaurant that doesn't serve hungry people.?On and on the idiocy goes, and then big business has the nerve to blame their short-sighted greed and utter stupidity on the hiring front on the people who are out of work - right before they turn around and demand more visa workers to displace Americans because "we just *can't* find skilled people in this nation." Right... worth watching and just goes to show you just how messed up employers are. They threaten to take away severance if people with decades of experience don't train their new employees who will make significantly less. I really feel for the guy, it's total BS how companies would rather have foreigners with little experience to pay less than have seasoned intelligent people but pay more.?Being forced to train your cheaper replacement to speed your demise, is plainly humiliating.When you are given really good reviews, your company is doing well, and you have to train your replacement for months...it's a greed thing. Does anyone really think Disney is hurting enough to dump their long time employees this way?Originally Posted by?Rabrrita?But, if it adds to the bottom line and that in turn increases dividend to the stockholders, I;m all for doing it. If the employee doesn't have the skills to find another job in today's global economy, maybe they should consider a promising career in the Fast Food Industry.?I wonder if he was crying when he went shopping and bought foreign made goods? Bet he never thought twice about all the american jobs being loss to foreign competition. But now that it's hitting him, boo-hoo-hoo crying to mommy to do his laundry.We spend way too much time whining and complaining about foreign workers and not enough time producing and competing financially so there is no advantage to hiring them.This is the attitude that has us racing to the bottom.?Do you work in IT?Buying foreign made goods is not the same thing as replacing an american citizens job with a foreign h1-b visa national?IN AMERICAWhat does laundry have to do with anything.?So tell me sir or ma'am how do we compete? Oh that's right we can't because we would all have to take a 50% paycut. I could understand if Mr. Perrero was being replace by young college grads for 40k a year but he is being replaced by a person who is not educated in america, speaks poor English, is not culturally american and is not a citizen of the US for even less compensation.In my opinion, this is utterly disgusting.?I worked at an employer who was probably hiring at least half H-1B workers in my department. They ran the gamut from extremely smart and helpful, to idiotic and rude, but the real stickler wasn't even their pay or language barriers (which the company posted and was likely in-line with other staff) - hours are long and stress is high, and the H-1B don't have the luxury of just being able to find another job like a US citizen. If they get into a bad situation, it's far less likely for them to just up and leave.It's amazing that it's gone on as long as it has. Between the government looking the other way at illegal immigration and the H1B program, how can anyone doubt that they don't care about the average American?What about outsourcing, when they move entire factories abroad--where's the outrage?Almost everything in America today is manufactured abroad, but I don't see people actively boycotting foreign-made products. I'm willing to bet that 90% of the people here, who are expressing their outrage about Disney hiring a foreign IT worker, drive Japanese or Korean cars, use China-built iPhones or Android phones, and are posting their opinions on China-made, Taiwan-made, and Korea-made computers, tablets, etc.Now let's take a step back. If you insist that someone else's company, that you have no stake in, must hire only American citizens and not foreign nationals, you're going to drive up their costs, or at least keep them from cutting some of their costs, unless they fire some of their employees. Are you OK with that??This kind of misguided protectionism usually leads to more unemployment. Be careful what you wish for.Nobody, even NTs, likes being subject to work-related pressure. But here's the question: are aspies more susceptible to its negative effects? For example, the more pushy someone becomes, the more I tend to resist. It's not very work-compatible, is it, when the pressure is applied by the boss.?And during these moments I find the pressure adversely affects the quality of my work. It interferes with the creative thinking process and I overlook some really clever solutions in these crunch moments. Then some time later, even if it's just in the car going home, the truth appears to me. Often it is much later - months, weeks - the 'answer of genius' will pop in my head. Unfortunately, by then it is usually too late, and my work was already submitted, but in less than optimal form because of the pressure.I have been having a lot of pressure and stres releated issues at work myself especially lately. They just recently really tightened the security on the network and it totally obliterated my daily routine plus keeps me from working at home (which is about the only place I get any really good work done.) What's really bad for me is that as my stress goes up I get more and more easily distracted by everything. Right now for example everybody's keyboard clicking (including mine as I type this) is making it very difficult to concentrate.when I'm under pressure my mind seizes up. It's like the more I try the more I can't do my job. I also don't handle critism well. I always feel as if it is a personal attack. What dosn't help the situation is that the lady that I work with has the tack of a sledgehammer!?I just try and do my best each and everyday.cecilfienkelstien wrote:when I'm under pressure my mind seizes up. It's like the more I try the more I can't do my job. I also don't handle critism well. I always feel as if it is a personal attack. What dosn't help the situation is that the lady that I work with has the tack of a sledgehammer!I just try and do my best each and everyday.Exactly. When I'm left alone and not harassed, I can be very creative, but in the heat of the moment I go through that same brain seizure thing. Many times, I get my most inspired solutions to problems when I am driving in the car or walking arond rather than at my desk. I'd be curious if there is evidence that NTs respond better to the cracking of the whip, whereas Aspies find just the opposite.?I worked for a guy who had been promoted to manager. He knew the product and was a smart guy, but was similarly tactless and his interaction with me just made things worse.applesauce wrote:I have days when everything clicks fine and days when everything seems completely random and crazy.i would have to agree! although i think i get more stressed out when im trying to function normally in sociaty. i know this is especially going to be hard for me in the workplace. since i might let out a random "bark" or start talking to myself when im working, lol.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?First off the h1b program was created to fill high skilled jobs when no Americans were qualified not mid skilled jobs that companies don't want to pay reasonable wages for.It also was not created to flood the market with cheaper foreign labor to drive down salaries of Americans.It was also not created to provide companies with captive workers who can either put up with whatever abuse and condition companies can inflict on them or risk being shipped back home.Any way you look at it this is a b@stardization of the h1b program and in the worst and most flagrant way especially the part where Americans were laid off an forced to train their h1b replacements. That is absolutely completely contradictory to the goal of the program.Another excellent point. My former employer had a wide of staff level technical positions in our department, as well as the entry level position I was in. Probably 2/3 of the staff level were H-1B Indians. Occasionally they'd hire an American, which basically proved the point that there are qualified Americans for the role, and that they don't need to sponsor. I wouldn't be surprised if Americans with similar qualifications were pre-disqualified to make room for more visa holders.Originally Posted by?charlygal?^So you want bigger government and more interference with the free market?You also want legal discrimination based on national origin?I want legal discrimination based on citizenship, just like most countries. We already discriminate in favor of veterans for civil service jobs.Originally Posted by?Rabrrita?and will you?never go?to Disney Parks,?never buy?Disney products,?never watcha Disney movie, or?refuse to participate?in any event where a Disney character is displayed all in solidarity for and with American Disney workers?I will nowOriginally Posted by?MaryleeII?I will nowSame here. Disney is not allowed in my house in any way, shape, or form.Originally Posted by?NYCresident2014?Last I checked, businesses operate for a profit. Period. End of story. They don't owe anything to their employees, just as their employees don't owe anything to the business.If it's cheaper to replace expensive Americans with cheap foreigners, then do it. Assuming you can do it without negatively impacting revenue/profit (i.e. the replacements have to be able to do the work). We as Americans need to figure out how to make ourselves valuable in a world where many jobs are replaceable.OF course that's capitalism. It's not their best interest to have employees for long term on their balance sheets. Many industries like retail are directly impacted by job losses and it's a matter of time the economy goes into a recession unless our consumption based economy is healthy again. It's not healthy because the Feds chose to fund business with cheap loans in return they are suppose to supply jobs. The Feds keeps looking at the wrong metric for interest rate hike or hold. The short term employment rate is just at or below 5% but the real long term unemployment rate is above 8%, any more job losses in America we will become like many European countries where there is a double digit unemployment rate and the government is required to give out entitlements.Do we want Europe's problem? Where the companies and workers are forced to redirect a large portion of income tax towards the unemployed?Originally Posted by?rocky1975?It is the reality of immigrant labor, maybe get outside your bubble. You may be next to be "replaced"You took the words right out of my mouth. Those in this thread who are callous may just find themselves in the same situation.Quote:Originally Posted by?charlygal?I could be replaced. That would then prompt me to adapt to the ever evolving job landscape.Good luck with that! I'm assuming that you have a huge amount of savings to tide you over while you get trained to do another job. When you lose that job to an H1-B, be prepared to start the cycle again.Originally Posted by?LetsRock?I want legal discrimination based on citizenship, just like most countries. We already discriminate in favor of veterans for civil service jobs.Correct!^What those who think it's no big deal when Americans are laid off and forced to train their H1-B visa replacements, don't realize the following --- Many of those Americans will spend a long time being unemployed. If they want to keep their skills intact, they have to dig into their savings to take classes. Even worse, many Indians who came here on H1-Bs and eventually got green cards are now in a a position to hire. Once in that position, they blatantly discriminate against non-Indians. My husband, who recently retired, worked in IT. He came across such discrimination, as did other IT workers he knew.Just like those lost their towns when corps pulled out and went over to Mexico. It's everywhere. What do you think Trump is talking about. Why do you think every high up wants him to shut his trap and fall on his face. It's a snowball of a job. The establishment is taking us for a jolly ride and don't give a crap.?"Why give them up? Because this week, Irene Rosenfeld, the head of Mondolez (the food conglomerate based in Illinois that has Nabisco in its portfolio), a woman touted for breaking the glass ceiling upon becoming the head of Kraft Foods and then its spin off, announced that rather than invest $130 million in modernizing the plant in Chicago, where Oreos have been lovingly produced for the past 100 years, she will instead move the jobs to a new factory in Mexico. The result: a loss of 600 well-paying and community-sustaining jobs on Chicago’s Southwest Side."'s like a broken record. We are going to be just like South America soon, the poor and the rich, and that's it.Originally Posted by?charlygal?^So you want bigger government and more interference with the free market?You also want legal discrimination based on national origin?...if that's what you call giving priority to American citizens for jobs in America by American countries, then yes. Do you consider it 'discrimination' that only US citizens can vote, too??By your definition, every other country practices what you call 'discrimination'. An American is going to have a very difficult time being hired for a job in another country, because they hire their own citizens first.?The global economy is one-sided: employers have available a global supply of labor, while Americans are stuck in the US fighting over the leftover scraps.?If there's any discrimination by national origin at all, it's *against* American workers.The current president likes to outsource US jobs, to spread the wealth.The whitehouse is also directed by big companies and lobbyists to increase H1B visa counts.The US worker is hurt by this and has every right to cry about it!The current president has gone to India and called them a big net producer of American jobs. That was the last time I listened to anything he had to say. I've spent the last 7 years pretending he doesn't exist. He thinks the whole issue is a myth and a joke which is pretty much what I think about his presidency.Originally Posted by?ohhwanderlust?I'm the only American on my team. Everyone else is from India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, or China.In my previous team, it was the same way. I was the only American born citizen. Everyone else was here on a H1B visa from India. Even the manager was Indian.The worst part about it was that this manager, who married a US citizen to obtain citizenship, was helping the H1B's through the process to obtain US citizenship. Part of the process involves interviewing US citizens for the H1B holders' job to prove that there is no one here is capable of the work. These people were wasting time interviewing for a job that didn't even exist! The H1B visa holder admitted that there were some good candidates, but together they made up reasons to put down on the application why they couldn't be hired. It was a disgrace!Corporate profits go up, shareholders are happy, the rich get richer....and middle class jobs evaporate like the rain. Nevermind that literally every other top 25 GDP countries, outside the US, practice one or multiple forms of protectionismYes, I have many Indian guest workers where I work and I have to feel lucky I have my good job for now at least. The trend is toward sending all the work to India or to workers from India living here in the USA. It's scary. I don't hate the Indian people but it is a big change in who I work with and there is definitely less of my American-born friends at work anymore. They lose their jobs and never come back.I heard the Indian folks are paid like 1/6th what the Americans are. How is this fair to the Indian worker? It is exploiting them too. It may be our new "slavery". Would the rise up and demand better pay? How can they? They risk having to return to a lower paying job in India?Originally Posted by?Hobo7396?Yes, I have many Indian guest workers where I work and I have to feel lucky I have my good job for now at least. The trend is toward sending all the work to India or to workers from India living here in the USA. It's scary. I don't hate the Indian people but it is a big change in who I work with and there is definitely less of my American-born friends at work anymore. They lose their jobs and never come back.I heard the Indian folks are paid like 1/6th what the Americans are. How is this fair to the Indian worker? It is exploiting them too. It may be our new "slavery". Would the rise up and demand better pay? How can they? They risk having to return to a lower paying job in India?If 1/6th of what Americans are paid is still 33% - 50% more than what they would have been paid at home, they are not going to care and are not being exploited in their own minds. Kind of like what is happening with Filipinos. Filipinos being paid $10 an hour for jobs which would pay more per hour not including taxes and benefits if the employee were American -- they are not being exploited in their own mines. They're very well compensated for the Phillippines, even if they're scrapping by to live paycheck to paycheck if they were located in America on that salary.So don't shed a tear for the infinitely more well-compensated H1B visa workers. They're getting along just fine. Fight for Americans.Originally Posted by?Vision67?In America, the only thing that matters is increasing shareholder value.Executives must deliver. Otherwise they are replaced.If you don't like that, you are welcome to buy up all the stock and run the company as you like.You mean, obey the law? What Disney did was illegal.Originally Posted by?Vacanegro?Corporate profits go up, shareholders are happy, the rich get richer....and middle class jobs evaporate like the rain. Nevermind that literally every other top 25 GDP countries, outside the US, practice one or multiple forms of protectionismExactly! Americans are rather uniquely screwed, because their government allows their jobs to be handed out all over the world like candy, but no other country is going to do the same for Americans. The deal is hugely unbalanced.?Corporations win.?Foreigners win.?Shareholders win.?...American workers lose.?Everyone everywhere wins, except for the American worker.On that note:Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S. - IEEE SpectrumOriginally Posted by?NYCresident2014?Last I checked, businesses operate for a profit. Period. End of story. They don't owe anything to their employees, just as their employees don't owe anything to the business.No. Not period. Not end of story.Businesses must obey the law before anything else including making a profit.This story begins and ends with following the letter and the intent of the laws regarding H1-B visas.What Disney is doing appears to me (and many others) to be breaking the law.?That's why there is a hearing and an investigation.Here's the law. Read the part about displacing existing workers.Employment Law Guide - Workers in Professional and Specialty Occupations (H-1B, H-1B1, and E-3 Visas)Furthermore, many, if not most, small businesses do not exist "to make a profit".They exist to serve the needs of the owners, and those needs may have little to do with money and have everything to do with having autonomy, or perhaps as the most fun way to get through life for that person. Many business owners would be perfectly happy to operate at a loss forever if able to pay their own salaries.If you wanted a job in America, being a boomer was THE best time. It was after the great depression and world war II but for them America was at the top of its game and they didn't have to worry about third worlders taking their jobs and when applying it was much simpler, you would just go in to a business, got to likely speak to the boss first or at least talk to someone, fill out an application and there were plenty of jobs to go around.The world for all intents and purposes was their oyster and now most of them - at least the ones that were responsible enough - managed to save and invest and can now live fairly comfortably. It just feels as if the boomer men and women took all they could and just left scraps, not even caring how it would effect future generations.?I am 30 and despite having gone to college and graduated and have two degrees, a masters and bachelors have always struggled to find employment. I do have a job but the pay sucks and I have been at other jobs, some paid pretty well but they ended up getting taken over by either cheap labor or the positions were cut to save costs. I still put in applications and do interviews but no such luck, it makes me so depressed sometimes. My boyfriend who is in construction is having very similar issues. And at 30 I am having to share an apartment with a psycho roommate just to get by. I am not saying I want a mansion or super nice cars or anything like that, but at my age I wish I could afford at least a decent home with possibly marriage and kids; all things that were practically handed to the boomer men and women.?Yeah I know people will say "Oh gee another complaint about boomers, yada yada" but I do think it's a topic worthy of discussion. Sure the boomers probably faced some difficulties but not to the extent us millenials have today, nor did they have the insane school debt or the complete humiliation and loss of dignity of losing their jobs to third world people that have nowhere close to the skill or ability they had just for the sake of a few bucks.?I just wonder if the boomer men and women really realize how extraordinarily fortunate they were to have lived when they did and if they even feel bad for us. From my experience many of them have a "pull yourselves up by your boot straps" attitude and any complaining is just summarily dismissed as "millenial whining". Yet I and I am sure many others feel much like how an abused woman would be treated that would complain about her abusive man back in the day.Originally Posted by?eyeb?It's a lot better today than before... what are you talking about?!?Your understanding of the current reality is erroneous. You're remember a reality that no longer exists. Yes, things were once worse for minorities - that much is true - but that doesn't mean that the situation isn't still worse overall than it was twenty years ago. And your comments about college are not only inaccurate, for most, but more importantly irrelevant: In my day, graduating college practically guaranteed a good life. Now, it guarantees nothing of the sort. A Masters degree is now the main way education can help differentiate a candidate from competitors.?Things are a lot worse today than before. We boomers were very fortunate to have been born and to have entered the job market when we did.Mod cut: Orphaned (quoted posts have been deleted).Quote:Originally Posted by?Basilide?Only a select few would be going to college if they could only do it using resources that would make it free or "near free". Current expectations placed on children about college don't allow for that "lack of opportunity". This also makes it easy to take advantage. What's terrible is that parents don't understand the loans they allow their "adult" children to take out and cosign for them.I had fallen behind myself with news of this trend. I was shocked to hear that the?averagestudent loan debt is over $30K (so, in other words, much higher for those without parents who can afford and are willing to help them afford college). It was almost surreal to me to hear a discussion between a mother and a nationally-recognized financial adviser about having to decide between paying down one's own college debt and putting some money away to help ensure one's daughter won't face the same financial shackles.Quote:Originally Posted by?North Beach Person?My observation is that people who comment on Boomers "having those good jobs at the end of WW II and the Great Depression" either need a history lesson or a brush up on their Math skills.Luckily no one in this thread said anything so silly as that.?Originally Posted by?Sisterwoes?If you wanted a job in America, being a boomer was THE best time. It was after the great depression and world war II but for them America was at the top of its game and they didn't have to worry about third worlders taking their jobs and when applying it was much simpler, you would just go in to a business, got to likely speak to the boss first or at least talk to someone, fill out an application and there were plenty of jobs to go around.I have to respond with what I just did in a very similar thread over in "retirement":A lifetime is 60-90 years...EVERY lifetime, Boomer or "Millie", has boom times and depressions/recessions. You'll get your boom and likely more than one. I've seen SEVERAL recessions where I've lost up to 40% of my retirement money.Originally Posted by?bUU?I think you need to clean your glasses a bit better (or stop trying to use ridiculously faulty paraphrasing to move the goalposts such that your comment would seem to have validity).And I think that people like you who erase the era from the late 60s to the early 90s need a history lesson. Something focusing on all those "good jobs" the Boomers supposedly had which disappeared by 1990 when entire industries shut down.I went to college in the 1970s and many of my classmates dropped out to work in the mills. By 1985 those jobs were gone. Along with most of those "good" jobs in other industries like mining and railroads.My paraphrasing didn't (in error) didn't change the base meaning. "After" and "at the end of" have the same meaning in the context which the OP used. That those suckling Boomers born then had great jobs after the war. Apparently being in diapers wasn't a hindrance.Newsflash, the issues we have today are rooted in that time, when the people in charge were born in the 1880s and 90s. Policies which the "Greatest Generation" took over and put into overdrive during the 1950s, 60s and 70s. Things like off-shoring and automation. Those weren't Boomers who did that, we were barely weaned.Anyone who questions that boomers struggled too, didn't live through that time. People just spend their money differently now. The middle class acts wealthy now. People must have a nice big home, two cars, every modern convenience, expensive vacations, eating out often, gourmet and organic food, etc....Life was not idealic in the fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, or any other decade. That's a myth.?The boomers had war with a draft, equality issues far worse than today for both race and gender, lived on cash and not credit, and made do with what they had. Interest rates wet sky high in the seventies and inflation was a huge deal. Entire industries went belly up and pay was much less. People paid much more of their salary towards housing and food, and most people only had one car even if both spouses worked. It was a luxury for rich people, to have more than one car.?Things were hard then, and they are hard now. That's life. It's difficult, and every person if they live long enough will have times of boom and bust.Originally Posted by?JohnJonz? worth watching and just goes to show you just how messed up employers are. They threaten to take away severance if people with decades of experience don't train their new employees who will make significantly less. I really feel for the guy, it's total BS how companies would rather have foreigners with little experience to pay less than have seasoned intelligent people but pay more.?Being forced to train your cheaper replacement to speed your demise, is plainly humiliating.Not to mention the fact that I have seen these replacement IT workers, here on worker visas, with MEDICAID for themselves and their families! THe companies that are bringing them over are able to pay them so little that they qualify for Medicaid in my state!My husband's job recently laid-off an entire production team (~100 people) as well as other areas of the job after blowing who knows how many millions of dollars on making a new "flagship" office that would look nice and pretty when all the big bosses fly in from around the world---only to now have to break the lease (after completely renovating and buying brand new everything for the space) because they got rid of most of the people in the office! (And we are talking prime NYC real estate so this isn't cheap.)It's laughable to see his company concerned about profits and then watch them spend money on all kinds of crazy stuff because they pretty much do the same thing on repeat. Then they turned around and asked him if he'd be willing to work in another country. Really? After you just laid-off people on the spot and all those people on work visas at his office need to leave the US ASAP? Sounds like a promising future.You can thank Carter for NAFTA ,and undermining American manufacturing .Between the environmentalists, and the UN agenda 21, and the current administration , the US will be in the toilet soon.Not a matter of if, but when.?Years ago I watched a lot of business come and go ,our shop in LA area was thriving , but as the current trends in the economy have shown, businesses especially manufacturing cannot survive in this environment.?Even the billion dollar corporation I was working for here, has been whittling down, and moving abroad , and not due to automation, but due to the political atmosphere and dollar instability.?No one in business has confidence in an unstable government, and I can't say as I blame them.It seems like America eats it's own.?Greed is king, the rest of the 99% are peasants.?One thing for sure that history has shown, things don't last forever.?There's been a lot of civilizations that have vanished off of the face of this earth in the past as the ruling class on this planet seem to place a lower price on human life and more on hedonistic material pursuits and objects.?It's almost like you can smell the seeds of revolution that are in the air.One more stock market crash should do it !Originally Posted by?froglipz?Companies are not in business to employ people, or create more jobs for people. They are in business to make money. If they can make more money by having less people on payroll thats what will happen. That is why blue collar jobs are being taken over by robotics more and more.That's the corporate model since the bean counters took over. Once upon a time, companies were in business to manufacture products or provide a service. They obtained their profits by being better than the competition. Now they obtain their profits by doing the absolute minimum to maintain their cash flow. Once upon a time, if you manufactured widgets, you hired a top widget guy to run the company. Now they hire an MBA who knows nothing about widgets.I work in Silicon Valley and I can tell you that H1B workers get paid the same as their American counterparts. The idea that they are working for peanuts is false. They get exactly the same salary, bonus, benefits and equity.Originally Posted by?80skeys?I work in Silicon Valley and I can tell you that H1B workers get paid the same as their American counterparts. The idea that they are working for peanuts is false. They get exactly the same salary, bonus, benefits and equity.I find this to be pretty accurate. Whenever there was an open requisition for a visa holder, the salary was posted internally. I don't know if that's what non H-1B employees made or not, but it seemed in the neighborhood. The big benefit, IMO, is the fact they require sponsorship and that's not easy to get, so they're stuck.Originally Posted by?AndyAMG?This is the attitude that has us racing to the bottom.?Do you work in IT?Buying foreign made goods is not the same thing as replacing an american citizens job with a foreign h1-b visa national?IN AMERICAWhat does laundry have to do with anything.?So tell me sir or ma'am how do we compete? Oh that's right we can't because we would all have to take a 50% paycut. I could understand if Mr. Perrero was being replace by young college grads for 40k a year but he is being replaced by a person who is not educated in america, speaks poor English, is not culturally american and is not a citizen of the US for even less compensation.This has been going on for 40 Plus years. Blue collar workers were told that the invasion of illegals were just doing the work that Americans no longer wanted to do. Now that our good construction jobs have been flooded with illegals those jobs are gone and wages are stagnate for the remaining few jobs. Now that white collar workers are losing their jobs, we see them complaining. Sorry a little late to the party, no tears from me.Originally Posted by?Rabrrita?and will you?never go?to Disney Parks,?never buy?Disney products,?never watcha Disney movie, or?refuse to participate?in any event where a Disney character is displayed all in solidarity for and with American Disney workers?Yes I can and will boycott Disney.Originally Posted by?Whirls?Yes I can and will boycott Disney.Same here. But I'll also write them a letter telling them why. I'd hate for them to be under the impression that they're getting less revenue (hence less profit) because they need to displace even?more?American workers to save a few more backs.Originally Posted by?Hobo7396?I heard the Indian folks are paid like 1/6th what the Americans are. How is this fair to the Indian worker? It is exploiting them too. It may be our new "slavery". Would the rise up and demand better pay? How can they? They risk having to return to a lower paying job in India?The 1/6th pay is for the off-shore workers, not the ones on-site in US. And trust me, 1/6th converted to their local currency is a very good salary.Originally Posted by?dman72?It's amazing that it's gone on as long as it has. Between the government looking the other way at illegal immigration and the H1B program, how can anyone doubt that they don't care about the average American?They don't give a rat's ass about Americans. Just ask Mitt (the Stiff) Romney.Welcome to globalization, where everyone makes Bangladesh wages except for the owners of capital, who live off everyone else's labor.Your children will be slaves.Originally Posted by?charlygal?Would he have felt different if the replacement was US born?You are missing the point. The three hundred laid off at Disney are the tip of the iceberg. Corporations depress salaries by claiming that they are paying foreigners the prevailing wage but they are not. There are hundreds of thousands being brought in to take American jobs every year. H-1b, L class visas green cards, etc..Originally Posted by?Rabrrita?and will you?never go?to Disney Parks,?never buy?Disney products,?never watcha Disney movie, or?refuse to participate?in any event where a Disney character is displayed all in solidarity for and with American Disney workers?Disney is the tip of the iceberg.Originally Posted by?MongooseHugger?Maybe to stop it completely. In order to stop it enough to our liking, we just have to stop buying enough (or, preferably, buy from the good companies) to make the bad companies realize that it will cost their bottom line MORE to jip us than to give into our demands. Once we convince enough of them to stop their bad habits, they won't be able to buy off the politicians anymore as their numbers will be fewer.I'd also recommend sending an email to the company about why you are no longer giving them your business. Otherwise they won't know why there's a problem.Originally Posted by?Rabrrita?But, if it adds to the bottom line and that in turn increases dividend to the stockholders, I;m all for doing it. If the employee doesn't have the skills to find another job in today's global economy, maybe they should consider a promising career in the Fast Food Industry.?I wonder if he was crying when he went shopping and bought foreign made goods? Bet he never thought twice about all the american jobs being loss to foreign competition. But now that it's hitting him, boo-hoo-hoo crying to mommy to do his laundry.We spend way too much time whining and complaining about foreign workers and not enough time producing and competing financially so there is no advantage to hiring them.You don't understand that this is not isolated. Did you listen to the part where Pererro said that in most instances the severance agreement included a gag clause??This is not 300, it's thousands.Originally Posted by?dman72?It's amazing that it's gone on as long as it has. Between the government looking the other way at illegal immigration and the H1B program, how can anyone doubt that they don't care about the average American?The government is facilitating this. You must read "Sold Out" by John Miano. He is an ex computer programmer who is now an attorney.Originally Posted by?NYCresident2014?Last I checked, businesses operate for a profit. Period. End of story. They don't owe anything to their employees, just as their employees don't owe anything to the business.If it's cheaper to replace expensive Americans with cheap foreigners, then do it. Assuming you can do it without negatively impacting revenue/profit (i.e. the replacements have to be able to do the work). We as Americans need to figure out how to make ourselves valuable in a world where many jobs are replaceable.Your zip code is Manhattan.?If you are a doctor and not in private practice an H-1b can be brought in to do your job.If you are an attorney, they've got American attorneys supervising and reviewing the work of ten Indian paralegals. So much for the other nine American attorneys.A strong American middle class is important. Don't give it away so eagerly.Originally Posted by?charlygal?None of this is my reality. Nor is it the reality of millions of other Americans.?Perhaps you need to change industries.You act like that's easy.Originally Posted by?Hobo7396?Slaves were only given housing and food and at the rate some of these immigrants are paid, that is about all they get.I've heard reports of immigrant workers coming here and having an apartment and work computers but no furniture except a cheap couch. They can't afford a car or buy a very cheap one to get to work. You can't tell me that's fair. It's a form of discrimination.Plus, H1-Bs where I live are known for overcrowding houses and apartments. They lie to a landlord and say, for example, that 3 bedroom house they are renting will be for 3 people. They get the house and cram in three times as many.All these people who insist that H1-Bs are paid the same as Americans has to be BS. If they were paid as well as Americans, they would have no need to live in overcrowded conditions.Besides, why would an employer dump all their American workers and force them to train H1-B replacements before getting their severance pay just so they can hire H1-Bs and pay them the same as they were paying the Americans??It makes no sense.A good friend at ATT is in the same boat, is required to train foreigners to do his job and he is just waiting to be told his job is gone. Been there 30 years. He makes 100K+ and the foreigners are signing on for 50K.Corporate America is screwing over all the Americans to keep the stockholders happy.When is it all going to end?Originally Posted by?davenj08?And what exactly is your source of income on the salaries of these H1B visa workers? Some ignorant poster on CD? Or did you try to use the abundant information available on government websites to educate yourself??Debate is good but only when backed by facts.I think I have typed about 5 times that I was told at my workplace that the billing rate to use for our foreign workers is one sixth the rate of a domestic worker. That is a fact that correlates well with salary, sir.Originally Posted by?Hobo7396?I think I have typed about 5 times that I was told at my workplace that the billing rate to use for our foreign workers is one sixth the rate of a domestic worker. That is a fact that correlates well with salary, sir.There's a difference between billing rate and salaries. When your company brings on an h1b fulltime, what is the salary compared to a citizen? Generally, they are similar.The issue is not producing more or competing with others, that is a fallacy promoted by the very people who are taking advantage of the business structure of the US. Which is contributing to the growing income gap. The issue is employers abusing employees and putting $$ over human capital. The USA has some of the worst employment laws in the developed world. It makes me sad when I hear people come up with defenses like "find another industry" or "maybe if people tried hard enough, they wouldn't be expendable." Even in the recession, CEO and executive salaries were continuing to go up despite layoffs and cuts to severance packages. What does that have to do with competition? It's corruption. Do you really believe that everyone in those companies were expendable...EXCEPT the CEO who magically deserved to get a pay raise? If less people believed in this silly mentality of "dog eat dog" and "the end justifies the means" , the world would not be the way it is.'s a piece about Mark Zuckerberg pushing for Immigration Reform and having Marco Rubio as his man to push for this piece of Immigration Reform which he calls for unlimited H1-B1 Visas for Technology workers in order to strengthen the Technology Industry.What amazes me is he gets his say and most Facebook users are so oblivious of the fact that China produces most of our goods and soon India will be serving our digital medium and services. Because of people like him and others who can get away with selling out American jobs to keep him and his goonies rich. None of the H1-B1 workers will ever become rich working without any rights, labor law protection, or receive any benefits. worth watching and just goes to show you just how messed up employers are. They threaten to take away severance if people with decades of experience don't train their new employees who will make significantly less. I really feel for the guy, it's total BS how companies would rather have foreigners with little experience to pay less than have seasoned intelligent people but pay more.?Being forced to train your cheaper replacement to speed your demise, is plainly humiliating.Its sad. While bringing a foreign worker is highlighted in this post, there exists a deeper problem. When corps(es) cant sustain the profits, they do the easiest thing - lay off people.?Look at the oil industry, they are laying off in 1000s. There are so many homes near my home springing up for sale , where there used to be hardly any earlier.?One thing is overvaluation. Overvaluing the non essential things must stop. ( iphone, facebook, twitter etc) ..Originally Posted by?vision33r?'s a piece about Mark Zuckerberg pushing for Immigration Reform and having Marco Rubio as his man to push for this piece of Immigration Reform which he calls for unlimited H1-B1 Visas for Technology workers in order to strengthen the Technology Industry.What amazes me is he gets his say and most Facebook users are so oblivious of the fact that China produces most of our goods and soon India will be serving our digital medium and services. Because of people like him and others who can get away with selling out American jobs to keep him and his goonies rich. None of the H1-B1 workers will ever become rich working without any rights, labor law protection, or receive any benefits.Personally, I think Mark's solution is not the right one. I'm a fan of Adobe's solution. They went to India and opened up offices. No more dealing with visas. It's extremely cheap to ship software from India to the United States. It utilizes India's talents while building their economy. It's a win/win.Originally Posted by?SJ_Wanderer?Just my 2 cents. I am working in IT and I can tell you only what I am seeing in IT.I have worked as an IT project manager for more than 15 yrs so I will share what I know of this issue. It is common in most of the companies and not just Disney or Southern California EdisonQuote:Originally Posted by?SJ_Wanderer?Most of the posts here suggest that H1Bs are paid nothing or benefits are not in line with a citizen.?If we do a bit of analysis, with the data from DoL we could see that there is no much difference in benefits. The wage information of an H1B candidate is a public information and DoL publish it on their websites. This document is called LCA and contains the minimum salary an H1B person will get if hired in that position. Please note that this is the minimum salary and the actual pay can only be more than this but not less.Thats debatable. The ones working Full Time for the US public company directly might have comparable salaries but the ones working via Indian consulting companies are definitely paid way less. If they were hired in India and sent to US, they might still be paid in Indian currency and will get a daily per diem in USD on daily basis. Benefits (insurance) might be the same as a US employee.?Quote:Originally Posted by?SJ_Wanderer?So we cannot conclude that low wage is the only reason for such hires. Also keep in mind that hiring and keeping an H1B is more headache for an employer. It comes in the form of attorney fees, USCIS fees for sponsorship, etc. So financial gain may not be the only target here.The issue is that H-1B is only the first step of entry to US and once they are here there is no one stopping them to switch companies. Unlike the L-1 visa, H-1B can be transferred so anyone who came to US can virtually transfer to any company for a higher paying job. Hiring H1B is actually not a long term headache because most of the companies throw the Green Card sponsoring deal while hiring new H1B guys. An H1B without Green card is a deal breaker and thats the only way to keep a talent in the company for 5-8 yrs. If you look at the current processing time of Green card for India and China, this is actually a great deal for the employer. You can't guarantee a US citizen job for 8 yrs without offering high incentives or growth opportunities and here you get a foreign worker locked in a position for that long. Its a win win situation. Chances are after 8-10 years the employee is at a stage where they are settled and too good in what they do so they might not actually leave. Long term it is a financial gain for the company and often results in low turnover for the IT department.Quote:Originally Posted by?SJ_Wanderer?Just like any other coin, there is another side for this and there comes the consultancy companies.?Forget about big players like Tata, Infosys, Cognizant - there are small body shops all across the country who are abusing this program. This is the major source for the companies to get cheap labor. These small staffing firms recruit people at minimum wage and supply to companies at a lower rate.The smaller players do not usually offer full time opportunities. These body shops want to market them on hourly rate without any benefits or pay when not contracted to a client. Sometimes the contractual hourly rate and Green card processing benefit might serve as good incentive for the H-1B prospects. Agree with the abuse part. Smaller companies have tons of H-1B guys available on their roster but they might not be processing their monthly payrolls.?Quote:Originally Posted by?SJ_Wanderer?And the rumors like 1/6 or even 1/3 of normal salary may be a myth because the H1B program must comply with the minimum salary requirement set by the DoL. For example, the minimum salary of a Software Developer is 60K in my county and H1B will get that. It is highly unlikely that the market rate is more than 90K-100K for such a position.I don't recall the latest requirements but about a decade ago my company's attorney told me it was as low as 33k. I have hired H-1B guys through body shops companies whose employees originally got their H-1B through gas station or a retail outlet in mall. I was told H-1B is the easiest visa to get sometimes more easy than B-1 visa. If you are able to show decent tax return on your business, you can sponsor your whole family from India or Philippines on H1BQuote:Originally Posted by?SJ_Wanderer?What if an America with no H1Bs - I believe any IT role that don't need a Top security clearance can be outsourced. 80-90% of the normal IT jobs can be done remotely. Think about how many of us are already doing a work from home! So this could follow the manufacturing industry. An H1B is paying at least Federal, State, Social Security and MedicareAgreed. America won't be America without the foreign H1B talent. Still a better option than illegal immigrants. Taxes and ssn are being paid but there is lot of $$ which is constantly being transferred abroad as wellQuote:Originally Posted by?SJ_Wanderer?And the revenue from H1B -?Most of the consultancies have to pay ~$6500 + $1225 (premium processing) for a single applicant and multiply this amount by 65K+20K H1Bs per year. Most of the H1B cases will go for at least 2 extensions in their 6 years tenure here in US and an extension costs ~$2000.I believe there is H1B quota for certain applicant countries and in most cases not every one does premium processing. The end result is Green Card and permanent residency / citizenship for anyone who enters US legally or illegally from a third world country. For H-1B its pretty much the same. They want to build parallel empires in US and back home where they could eventually retire with US income. There is nothing wrong with that. I wish I had another cheap country where I could retire.. Finally, the ripple effect of legal immigration is that usually such people have large family and joint family systems so if one person becomes a US citizen, you know the whole family and parents and relatives will end up in US. It might take a while but that will happen. Keep in mind that not every one might be as talented or educated as the original sponsor. So not sure if everyone understands the ripple effect here..... I personally don't have any issue with it but I know some people who do.The irony is that most of IT H-1B foreign workers complain about low wages and slave labor conditions until they get their green card and when they become residents or US citizens they object against the new H-1 B's who come from their home country. This is a never ending cycle. IT is considered a stagnant career path among locals and with such biased conditions it makes it even more difficult for new talent to venture in this area and compete with foreign work force. Unless it is a silicon valley tech company, IT is like the slum of all departments. With no long term growth prospective and lack of budget, it is not a desirable place where non foreign ppl see any solid career path. Add corporate greed to existing situation, it makes it even worse for both the existing US workers and foreign workers who have to work together in this messed up environment. Hence, over a period of time, the work culture in IT departments has become similar to work culture in India or Mexico because majority of these people are bringing values from back home instead of adapting the core US values which define our great society.I do think that eventually middle class working sector will diminish significantly in this country. The disruption has started with IT sector and eventually will move to other sectors as well. So unless someone is into entrepreneurship or is a business owner or even works in a C level executive management position, it would be really difficult to survive with a regular 9-5 job and secure a decent future for our kids.Originally Posted by?NJBest?Personally, I think Mark's solution is not the right one. I'm a fan of Adobe's solution. They went to India and opened up offices. No more dealing with visas. It's extremely cheap to ship software from India to the United States. It utilizes India's talents while building their economy. It's a win/win.True, and a lot of companies have done that in the past 10 years - Oracle, IBM, JPMorgan, Citi, Google, Microsoft, Intel - you name it.?What folks don't understand is that opening an office at an off-shore location is far more detrimental to US economy. Sponsoring hundreds of new H1B visas every year and getting new immigrant employees is not easy given the quota and lottery system. But once you open an off-shore office, transferring work is very feasible. It can grow from 50 jobs to over 1000 within 3-5 years.As present, there is no such thing as American government, not in the sense of "for the people, by the people."There is however shameless greedy wolves masquerading as "government."Originally Posted by?LetsRock?If the foreigner is willing to do the job for 50K, then that is what the job is worth. AT&T had been overpaying for the value of the position. A job is only worth what a person is willing to accept to do it. If not one applies, then the salary is raised until it is filled.That is because the b@stardization of the h1b program is distorting the market. Just because someone can pay an illegal nanny from China $2 an hour doesn't mean that is what a nanny is worth.Originally Posted by?HarryWarden?Lol, strongest work ethic? Like the Somali guy who went to sleep so often my job finally was forced to fire him even though he's a minority? Or his Asian replacement who sits next to me wearing EarPods all shift and barely paying attention to his surroundings (important as a security guard).Security guard? Isn't that one of those peanuts-for-pay jobs? If you want professional staff then you need offer professional training and pay."Work ethic" isn't a magic tagline for skinflint, cheapskate companies to use in order to pay less and expect more. Used in your context, "work ethic" sounds like the same stuff that socialism supposedly runs on. Seems like some people have forgotten that in capitalism one needs to pay more to get more out of their initial outlay, only after which is then followed up with limitations on ROI.Originally Posted by?LetsRock?If the foreigner is willing to do the job for 50K, then that is what the job is worth. AT&T had been overpaying for the value of the position. A job is only worth what a person is willing to accept to do it. If not one applies, then the salary is raised until it is filled.It's worth 50K to people from India who are sending money back there and/or planning to return there eventually after their stint in the US. 50K is practically a King's ransom in India. Rent is $100/month there.?Rent is most definitely not $100/month in America. So the value of that position is higher here.A value of a job in an expensive country should not be set by its nominal value in a third world country.If we don't stop this we will be like South America....Brazil is the most outstanding since 10% of the richest absorb 50.6% of all income compared to the 0.8% going to the poorest 10%.Mexico follows in the list of inequality, since the top 10% dominate 42.2% of income compared to the 1.3% for the poorest 10%.Argentina figures in third place with 41.7% of income going to the top 10% richest and 1.1% for the bottom 10%.In Venezuela the equation is similar: 10% have 36.8% and the bottom 10%, 0.9%. If the top 30% are taken into account income soars to 65.1%.In Colombia, 49.1% is taken by the top 10% and 0.9% for the bottom 10%. Chile’s equation is 42.5% and 1.5%. Strangely enough Nicaragua, Panama and Paraguay stand out as “more equal” even when the top rich take 40%.Urbanization on the other hand has not helped to contain poverty, rather the contrary: in 1970, 41 million poor people lived in Latinamerican cities (27%) and in 2007 the number jumped to 127 million which is equivalent to 29% of urban population.However the UN-Habitat report points out that “…in smaller cities and certainly in rural areas of Latinamerica population is even poorer and living conditions more miserable”.Rural poverty in Brazil is extensive to 50.1% of the rural population; in Mexico, 40.1% and in Peru, 69.3%. At the other extreme comes Chile with a rural poverty index of 12.3%, which is even lower than in urban areas.'s no secret why Trump leads the race. It's not because people love his personality, it's because he says he will prevent the fading of the middle class, bring back these jobs and stop the slide into a 3rd world status. Nobody cares about anything else he address but this> JOBS IN AMERICAOriginally Posted by?ohhwanderlust?It's worth 50K to people from India who are sending money back there and/or planning to return there eventually after their stint in the US. 50K is practically a King's ransom in India. Rent is $100/month there.?Rent is most definitely not $100/month in America. So the value of that position is higher here.A value of a job in an expensive country should not be set by its nominal value in a third world country.They do the same with construction and farming jobs with illegals from Mexico. They send money home and Mexico taxes it. It's a lot of money in Mexico, but in America, no American can survive on $7 bucks an hour with a family. Legally Americans cannot live 2 or 3 families to a household either but Mexicans do this all the time to afford it here until they go back.?It's wiping out American plumbers, construction workers, tile workers, framers, etc. They can no way keep up with those reduced prices illegals get. Once amnesty comes you'll see the average salary for those jobs fall to $30,000 a year instead of $50,000 since they are use to working for less and will become citizens overnight and flood the job market in these fields.?We can't compete anymore, not with cheap foreign labor helping corps with their bottom line quest. We just can't do it. It's not about being nice, or understanding of others culture. It's about surviving and feeding your family. That's all it is.Folks, this is the reality and the backlash of the new "global economy" and unless Americans start to really fight back - and I mean lots of work to change the system - it's not going to change until the corporate America finds it hurts their own pockets. Corporate America is really the new?government?because they control everything - even the politicians.There simply aren't enough jobs in this country anymore. So many have been outsourced that it's a new kind of Depression in this country that no one wants to admit exists.How many?customer service?call centers and manufacturing jobs end up in foreign countries? How many people in America would be employed these jobs were here? Lots. Although this is MY OPINION, I think the only way to fight this system is to do 2 things:1. Adjust your standard of living and learn to enjoy happiness versus stuff.?Advertising?will never stop selling the outdated standard of living we USED to have and people will continue to believe it.However, we have our own reality and "tiny houses" and "living off the grid" are popular ideas to people because we can't afford to live large anymore. That isn't necessarily a bad thing either.2.Get a job in a trade. I'm a?college?graduate but I can honestly say that unless you go into math or science, and from everything I have researched, you are better off getting into a trade (especially a Union trade) that can't be outsourced. An experienced plumber,?electrician, or a welder make more money than some college graduates make and because they are specialized, they will always be needed.My best friend's husband is a journeyman?lineman. He's a Union tradesman and makes the same money I do as a tech writer. He's also still doing it well into his 60's with no end in site. His work is ALWAYS in demandmarquiscrumpton in Scottsdale, Arizona said:?Thank you! Couldn't have said it better than myself. I agree, I still get turned down for jobs left and right. No such thing as take any job not when each other have some excuse not to hire you. They always say oh, it must be your resume.Well "they" don't know what they are talking about. How about it being the "employers" issue instead of blaming the applicant? You could reasonably back in days gone by go to any place?hiring?and they would give you a chance. There was none of this looking for reasons to not hire you. There was no 10 page online application for a part time minimum wage job. I never saw ads back in the day that tried to exclude the unemployed. Now they just word ads to state that they want "recent" experience.I get calls for interviews for jobs that are over an hour from my home. I am willing to relocate but not for low pay and no benefits. The reason why I apply is most jobs do not post the salary anymore. I am willing to relocate for the right job. I had to turn down a job because with travel etc I would lose money.Rvgirl42 in Saint Louis, Missouri said:?Folks, this is the reality and the backlash of the new "global economy" and unless Americans start to really fight back - and I mean lots of work to change the system - it's not going to change until the corporate America finds it hurts their own pockets. Corporate America is really the new?government?because they control everything - even the politicians.There simply aren't enough jobs in this country anymore. So many have been outsourced that it's a new kind of Depression in this country that no one wants to admit exists.How many?customer service?call centers and manufacturing jobs end up in foreign countries? How many people in America would be employed these jobs were here? Lots. Although this is MY OPINION, I think the only way to fight this system is to do 2 things:1. Adjust your standard of living and learn to enjoy happiness versus stuff.Advertising?will never stop selling the outdated standard of living we USED to have and people will continue to believe it.However, we have our own reality and "tiny houses" and "living off the grid" are popular ideas to people because we can't afford to live large anymore. That isn't necessarily a bad thing either.2.Get a job in a trade. I'm a?college?graduate but I can honestly say that unless you go into math or science, and from everything I have researched, you are better off getting into a trade (especially a Union trade) that can't be outsourced. An experienced plumber,?electrician, or a welder make more money than some college graduates make and because they are specialized, they will always be needed.My best friend's husband is a journeyman?lineman. He's a Union tradesman and makes the same money I do as a tech writer. He's also still doing it well into his 60's with no end in site. His work is ALWAYS in demandExcellent analysis!Rvgirl42 in Saint Louis, Missouri said:?Folks, this is the reality and the backlash of the new "global economy" and unless Americans start to really fight back....1. Adjust your standard of living and learn to enjoy happiness versus stuff.2.Get a job in a trade.My best friend's husband is a journeyman?lineman. He's a Union tradesman and makes the same money I do as a tech writer. He's also still doing it well into his 60's with no end in site. His work is ALWAYS in demandOh, yes, focus on "enjoying happiness" because your wages are going to be very meager.?Your advice is fairly mainstream advice. The economists from the most prestigious schools have been telling everyone for years that they will have to work harder for less money.2. Getting a job in a trade sounds like great advice because getting into the trades without knowing someone is more difficult than getting into a non-prestigious/respected?college?degree program. The process of getting into an apprenticeship program, in the U.S., is competitive. The main issue is that there aren't enough jobs for the large and growing working age population. Encouraging people who would get generic college degrees to get into the trades wouldn't decrease unemployment. It wouldn't even help employers decrease wages for blue collar workers since many people trying to get into an apprenticeship program would be denied an apprenticeship. There is no political will to expand apprenticeship programs in the U.S. and we're starting to have trouble being able to?finance?the infrastructure projects that would employ many blue collar workers at living wages.Unemployment is not a developed country problem. It is a global problem.Your ideas on "fighting back" appears to be identical to taking it lying down.?At some point you may have unconsciously realized that we can't stop billions?of people from competing for capital: jobs and resourcesMy rule of thumb is to just not listen to anyone who hasn't lost their job in this economy or those who have never completed an online application. I also don't listen to those who have never had to use a resume to get a job. The days of being willing and able to work and being handed a job are over. These days you have to prove yourself just to get your foot in the door. They want a resume. They want online applications completed. They want you to have relevant and sometimes exact experience. They want you to complete assessments to gauge your personality. You practically have to take exams to get a job these days.Originally Posted by?CometV6787?In my previous team, it was the same way. I was the only American born citizen. Everyone else was here on a H1B visa from India. Even the manager was Indian.Me too. I was also the only American born person on my entire team. In the IT industry, the vast majority of recruiters are now Indian born. Since I have an American name, they often can't tell the difference between my last name or first name. For example, if my name is Chris Smith, they will say, Hi Smith. I am so used to this that I don't even correct them. Besides most of them butcher my first name anyway, and it's a very common easy to spell American name.?I do contract work so I am often looking for new jobs after a contract finishes. I am competing with many H1B visa holders for jobs. H1B visas are so common that in the job ads there is a section that mentions info about "sponsorship" and they also ask about my status/sponsorship when I inquire about a position.On my last job, they cut all the US based contractors and outsourced the work to another country. Even my H1B coworkers got replaced with cheaper offshore workers.Usually, they can hire 5 offshore workers in place of one on-shore worker. I actually can complete well and can do better quality and faster work that 5 offshore resources. My last job my boss knew this. But they still got forced by upper management to use offshore instead, even though the lower and middle managers said the quality of work from offshore was very bad and due dates couldn't be met.Originally Posted by?80skeys?You are correct. H1Bs are paid the same, therefore financial gain is not the reason. The reason there are so many H1Bs in the IT sector is because of need. There is too much work and not enough Americans to do it.That's it.You must have your head up your *** to believe that. Why in the world would a company lay off an experienced worker so they can replace them with a non experienced worker at the same salary?We have thousands of college grads who can't find a good paying jobs because the foreigners living three families in one McMansions all working for half the wages.This also hold true for 90% of all residential home construction workers, landscapers, truck drivers.It's frigging pathetic, college kids running up huge loans so some low lifes from Asia can take the jobs for low wages.All those scabs should be sent packing.And I don't even like Trump.Originally Posted by?Down in a Hole?Well, as the title states, I was actually thinking about this last night since I have not been happy with my job as of late. It is not what I want to do for the rest of my life. I have always dreamed of helping people and doing what is good for the community.?A little backstory:?I was raised to get a degree, a degree in anything blah blah blah, you get the idea, this was back in the mid to late 90s before there was a google. I majored in History and graduated in 2006. Originally, I wanted to be a lawyer, but my home life sucked, and I did not have the emotional or financial support. That and when I graduated, even now people are saying that there are just too many lawyers. I instead got a decent job at a non profit, but I lost it during the recession. I have not really had any professional jobs since then. It was either been retail or call centers which I have to take because the bills have to get paid somehowI don't have any family or friends that can help me and most got the heck out of the city that I was in.?So I figured that I would rectify this mistake and so I went for a Masters in Public Administration(MPA). You would be surprised, how many people do not know what that is. I got to the point, where I hated my degree in History. It was fun to study but "useless" in the real world. I have even thought about going for another bachelors in corporate communications, but everyone that I have spoken to says that I just need to keep trying with what I have and stop going to school and putting myself more in debt.?I then decided to suck it up and I moved almost 5 hours away to a major metropolitan area in my state going from a town of 100k to a town of 1 million. I have been here a year already, and the only job that I have been able to procure is a job in a somewhat "professional call center" and that saying it lightly.?My MPA was very interesting to study and I figured that it would be useful since it combines fields of business, political science, economics and sociology, but so far, I have not been able to get a job in the non profit or local government sector. Its starting to make me wonder if I made a mistake and moved to the wrong city or I got the wrong degree.?After thinking for a while, I thought of every single person that has a degree, and the majority of them are NOT in professional jobs either. I am with a recruiting agent right now and even they told me that they had had people with MBAs have to take jobs starting at $10/hr. This just blew my mind, after all, I thought an MBA was slightly better than what I had studied.?I feel like I have been doing everything right, I saved up money, tried to move up, and even moved hours away just to try to get a better job. Nothing seems to be working out. I even had someone critique my resume, still nothing.?So my question is this, do you have a college degree and are underemployed? If so, what did you major in and what is it that you currently do? Why do you think you are in the situation that you are in?Welcome to the new reality of today's job market.I have two BS degrees, one in STEM, and looked for over 3 years during the worst of the recession aftermath and was never able to get hired. Once the years of not working in industry started to rack up, even when employment opportunities got a little better, I was always passed over because of my large gap since graduating. I volunteered full time during those years, but it didn't matter one bit. Once you are looked at as damaged goods, no one will take a chance on you. They don't have to. There are so many people out of work, there is always someone better or the same who is just recently out of work or someone currently working looking for something better.?It is hard to accept, since I put in an unbelievable amount of effort, but eventually you have to accept, move on with life and do something different.?Just the way things are today for some people. There aren't enough good jobs for everyone.?If you aren't getting the results you want, you have to change directions and try something else.Originally Posted by?ohhwanderlust?It's worth 50K to people from India who are sending money back there and/or planning to return there eventually after their stint in the US. 50K is practically a King's ransom in India. Rent is $100/month there.?Rent is most definitely not $100/month in America. So the value of that position is higher here.A value of a job in an expensive country should not be set by its nominal value in a third world country.Another random number..50K is a Kings ransom in India, but its approx 3330 dollars in US which is barely sufficient to meet a family's expenses.Originally Posted by?blisterpeanuts?For all the complaining about people taking "our jobs" away, if employers were restricted to U.S citizens or green card holders, we'd all be up the creek.?The work ethic in the U.S. has declined and it's hard to get and keep good people.I.I totally disagree with the bolded. It's been my experience that the opposite has happened. How do you explain the productivity increase over the past 20 years? People work?muchharder, better, and longer hours than they did 20 years ago when I came into the workforce.Quote:f we want to go back to the (imaginary) golden age of great paying jobs right out of high school, we have to start with:#1 Better education -- higher standards, like the tough exams that high schools used to have, and let people flunk out if they don't actually study and work hard. Stop punishing the teachers when kids don't behave or work hard.My kids have a lot more schoolwork than I had at their age and it's much more advanced. Our youth are better educated now than they have ever been. All that has accomplished is to provide our corporate overlords with a saturated market of people to choose from, which has caused a collapse in wages.?Quote:#2 Better upbringing and family life -- discipline and self-respect, regular exposure to moral and ethical values such as weekly church or synagogue. Television should emphasize moral and ethical values rather than catering mainly to pure sexuality and violence. Don't just spoil your children but encourage them to work hard for what they get.Hey, I'm a Christian and I can get behind this in a general sense. However, I don't see how this has anything whatsoever to do with a jobs market that has a systemic supply/demand problem.Quote:These people coming in on H1B visas come from conservative societies like ours used to be, and they have strong work ethics. I've worked with a lot of them and I'd take them any time over the average lazy, drug using, backstabbing, entitled American.I don't agree with this and it's largely irrelevant, anyway. The H1B program is supposed to be for jobs that Americans can't fill. There are plenty of Americans to fill the jobs. In fact I'd argue that even if you cut the H1B visa program to ZERO you would still have a surplus of labor, albeit less dramatic.Quote:People here talk about H1B people like they're some kind of evil spawn, when in fact they're better people than a lot of us are. If they're being granted green cards and citizenship, more power to them. That's what's made our country great, is a constant flow of super hard working immigrants who outdo the natives to get ahead. The day we stop that flow is the day our country loses its greatness and we become like Brazil or Argentina, teetering on bankruptcyOur country was not made great by the decimation of the middle class and good paying jobs. Quite the opposite, actually.Every industry claims to have a shortage of qualified workers. It's basic business sense. The more people who train themselves to be in the industry, the more choosy the industry can be about who it lets in. Gone are the days when getting a college degree means you can get a job at Microsoft or Yahoo and even get training on-the-job. Microsoft gets 6,000 applicants per open position.Originally Posted by?PedroMartinez?I just left the IT industry, and I hope to never return. It is a "job" that can be done remotely from anywhere in the world 85% of the time.?I'm switching to a career that requires a person to be there.?If I could go back in time, I would either go to dental school or restaurant management and became a Chick Fil A operator.Virtual jobs...........Who needs an H1 B visa when a business can open a subsidiary anywhere in the world and hire locally or contract it out? Who needs the overhead of US office space? Why pay a US worker $100,000 when you can employ someone with comparable skills, somewhere else, $25,000 ??Right now is the tip of the iceberg.Originally Posted by?LetsRock?It may be a global economy, but NOT a global workforce. Americans should not have to compete with non-citizens for jobs in their own country. I hope a President Trump pushes for legislation that would make it illegal for businesses to replace workers. They can hire additional workers if needed using H1B, but the foreigners should be the first to go when downsizing.All the remaining candidates favor H1B.?Cruz advocated for a five- fold increase in H1B visas. He switched gears and now his position is to freeze further visas for 180 days to audit alleged abuses. So maybe they find some abuse, slap a few hands and then wink- wink, ramp it up 5 fold just as his financial backers expect him to do.?Trump is not opposed to H1B visas.?Regardless of who wins it's up to Congress and the lobbyists who back them.Cruz advocated for a five- fold increase in H1B visas. He switched gears and now his position is to freeze further visas for 180 days to audit alleged abuses. So maybe they find some abuse, slap a few hands and then wink- wink, ramp it up 5 fold just as his financial backers expect him to do.TrueDonald Trump has said he will eliminate H1Bs totally. Here is the text from his website:I remain totally committed to eliminating rampant, widespread H-1B abuse and ending outrageous practices such as those that occurred at Disney in Florida when Americans were forced to train their foreign replacements. I will end forever the use of the H-1B as a cheap labor program, and institute an absolute requirement to hire American workers first for every visa and immigration program. No exceptions."Keep in mind, the big tech companies like Facepuke, Microshoft and Gaggle spend millions lobbying for H1Bs.These companies back Hillary Clinton.Originally Posted by?pappjohn?TrueDonald Trump has said he will eliminate H1Bs totally. Here is the text from his website:I remain totally committed to eliminating rampant, widespread H-1B abuse and ending outrageous practices such as those that occurred at Disney in Florida when Americans were forced to train their foreign replacements. I will end forever the use of the H-1B as a cheap labor program, and institute an absolute requirement to hire American workers first for every visa and immigration program. No exceptions."Keep in mind, the big tech companies like Facepuke, Microsoft and Goggle that spend millions lobbying for H1Bs.These companies back Hillary Clinton.Your quote does not support your statement. It doesn't say he will eliminate H1Bs completely. Trump is in favor of keeping foreign labor in this country.You misspelled Facebook and Google.Your quote does not support your statement. It doesn't say he will eliminate H1Bs completely. Trump is in favor of keeping foreign labor in this country.Trump said - I will end forever the use of the H-1B as a cheap labor program, and institute an absolute requirement to hire American workers first for every visa and immigration program. No exceptions."?No other candidate has put this much in writing.Originally Posted by?pappjohn?Trump said - I will end forever the use of the H-1B as a cheap labor program, and institute an absolute requirement to hire American workers first for every visa and immigration program. No exceptions."?No other candidate has put this much in writing.First, that doesn't mean he will eliminate H1Bs... which is what you claim was.Second, hopefully you don't believe everything you read. His position varies from what he has in writing on his website. He is for bringing foreign talent into the United States.Originally Posted by?PDD?It's frigging pathetic, college kids running up huge loans so some low lifes from Asia can take the jobs for low wages.College kids running up huge loans is their decision. No one is forcing them to do so.Educated Asians are hardly "low lifes".Originally Posted by?pappjohn?Trump said - I will end forever the use of the H-1B as a cheap labor program, and institute an absolute requirement to hire American workers first for every visa and immigration program. No exceptions."?No other candidate has put this much in writing.Sadly I heard he softened on this just Thursday. He said he wants to let the people who come here to go to Harvard, Wharton (his school) to stay here and work if they want because he considers them really talented.?Sounds like a social experiment to me. Lets hoard all the smartest or luckiest people in one place so we can all use the most resources together. Let throw our common culture into the garbage in the process. Learn more languages, tolerate more religions, more food rules, more etiquette rules, etc.He did say he would still build the wall. Until he changes or "softens" on that, too.?I want to like Donald but he sure does reverse on things and people a lot.Originally Posted by?80skeys?You are correct. H1Bs are paid the same, therefore financial gain is not the reason. The reason there are so many H1Bs in the IT sector is because of need. There is too much work and not enough Americans to do it.That's it.Exactly.Originally Posted by?Rabrrita?But, if it adds to the bottom line and that in turn increases dividend to the stockholders, I;m all for doing it. If the employee doesn't have the skills to find another job in today's global economy, maybe they should consider a promising career in the Fast Food Industry.?I wonder if he was crying when he went shopping and bought foreign made goods? Bet he never thought twice about all the american jobs being loss to foreign competition. But now that it's hitting him, boo-hoo-hoo crying to mommy to do his laundry.We spend way too much time whining and complaining about foreign workers and not enough time producing and competing financially so there is no advantage to hiring them.Thanks for the idiotic response.Originally Posted by?Hobo7396?Sadly I heard he softened on this just Thursday. He said he wants to let the people who come here to go to Harvard, Wharton (his school) to stay here and work if they want because he considers them really talented.Which makes sense. We need high quality talent. Unfortunately we produce too much low quality talent in our public colleges.Originally Posted by?80skeys?You are correct. H1Bs are paid the same, therefore financial gain is not the reason. The reason there are so many H1Bs in the IT sector is because of need. There is too much work and not enough Americans to do it.That's it.That excuse would have more credibility if H1Bs weren't actively displacing Americans who were already doing the job.Originally Posted by?Rabrrita?and will you?never go?to Disney Parks,?never buy?Disney products,?never watcha Disney movie, or?refuse to participate?in any event where a Disney character is displayed all in solidarity for and with American Disney workers?I would. And I could easily do that. No problem.Originally Posted by?80skeys?You are correct. H1Bs are paid the same, therefore financial gain is not the reason. The reason there are so many H1Bs in the IT sector is because of need. There is too much work and not enough Americans to do it.That's it.No, they're not paid the same. Here's an excerpt from a report on the pay of H-1B workers from? report examines the wage data in Labor Department records for Fiscal Year 2004. It compares wages in approved Labor Condition Applications (LCAs) for H-1B workers in computer programming occupations to wage levels of U.S. workers in the same occupation and location. The analysis demonstrates that,?despite the H-1B prevailing-wage requirement, actual pay rates reported by employers of H-1B workers were significantly lower than those of American workers.These findings show that the implementation of the prevailing-wage requirement in the H-1B program does not ensure that H-1B workers are paid comparably to U.S. workers. Moreover,?the data suggest that, rather than helping employers meet labor shortages or bring in workers with needed skills, as is often claimed by program users, the H-1B program is instead more often used by employers to import cheaper labor.That's just one reason the foreign workers are imported. The second is that the workers are TIED TO the business that imported them. If they are not treated well or paid well, or don't get good benefits, they are not free to leave and work elsewhere. They MUST work for the company that got the visa and imported them.?Another reason is that, being foreign and on a temporary visa, they simply are not free to complain about pay or hours or benefits, like a real employee.As the report above indicates, and as the tech worker in the video stated, the visa workers were displacing the American workers, so there wasn't the situation where Disney couldn't find qualified workers. The American workers were more qualified than the foreign ones they were training. The tech guy also said that many companies are doing this in the computer field. Disney was not out of the ordinary.This breaks my heart and gets me spitfire angry at the same time.It was bad enough for Disney to hire cheaper, less qualified, imported immigrants to take American jobs, but then to humiliate the employees by having them train the unqualified immigrants was too much and cruel. THEN to add language to the severance agreement so the employees couldn't speak about what Disney had done...that's just unAmerican. Is Disney American? It doesn't seem so.Originally Posted by?bpollen?No, they're not paid the same. Here's an excerpt from a report on the pay of H-1B workers from?'s just one reason the foreign workers are imported. The second is that the workers are TIED TO the business that imported them. If they are not treated well or paid well, or don't get good benefits, they are not free to leave and work elsewhere. They MUST work for the company that got the visa and imported them.Another reason is that, being foreign and on a temporary visa, they simply are not free to complain about pay or hours or benefits, like a real employee.As the report above indicates, and as the tech worker in the video stated, the visa workers were displacing the American workers, so there wasn't the situation where Disney couldn't find qualified workers. The American workers were more qualified than the foreign ones they were training. The tech guy also said that many companies are doing this in the computer field. Disney was not out of the ordinary.That report is flawed in that it looks at similar positions across multiple organizations. Take a look at individual organizations with identical positions. The wage difference is minimal if even existent.Take a look at Microsoft's actual visa applications, for example:? - The Visa DatabaseOr Facebooks:? - The Visa DatabaseOr Google:? - The Visa DatabaseOr Disney:? - The Visa DatabaseThese companies are paying reasonable wages.Disney has come a long way from their roots.?Walt Disney was a really interesting guy and a real patriot and he loved America. He'd be disgusted to see what has become of his dream.?He once said, "Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams, and the hard facts that have created America… with hope that it will be a source of joy and inspiration to all the world.”On a personal level, I despise this 21st Century Disney largely because of their anti-American stance with Leo Perrero and the other fired workers, and also because of the terrible movies they now produce.?And yes, I've been to the theme parks (at someone else's insistence) and thought it really was a glimpse of hell on earth.Originally Posted by?RosemaryT?Disney has come a long way from their roots.?Walt Disney was a really interesting guy and a real patriot and he loved America. He'd be disgusted to see what has become of his dream.?He once said, "Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams, and the hard facts that have created America… with hope that it will be a source of joy and inspiration to all the world.”On a personal level, I despise this 21st Century Disney largely because of their anti-American stance with Leo Perrero and the other fired workers, and also because of the terrible movies they now produce.?And yes, I've been to the theme parks (at someone else's insistence) and thought it really was a glimpse of hell on earth.Are you talking about the same Walt Disney that created?Education for Death: The Making of the Nazi (1943)?which featured Donald Duck in a Nazi uniform? Or were you talking about the Walt Disney that created?Song Of The South (1946)?which placed a new context on "Whistle while you work" by importing it into a southern plantation of black slaves??I don't think Mr. Disney would be disappointed at all. It seems to me that you don't know classic Disney really well at all.Originally Posted by?pappjohn?Trump said - I will end forever the use of the H-1B as a cheap labor program, and institute an absolute requirement to hire American workers first for every visa and immigration program. No exceptions."?No other candidate has put this much in writing.Does that mean Trump is going to fire all his "thousands of employees" working in his hotels and golf courses and replace them with Americans at fair wages?I didn't think so.Originally Posted by?NJBest?College kids running up huge loans is their decision. No one is forcing them to do so.Educated Asians are hardly "low lifes".I have to disagree with you on this one. The question is, what is the alternative? If there is no realistic alternative, this is coercion.Originally Posted by?dysgenic?I have to disagree with you on this one. The question is, what is the alternative? If there is no realistic alternative, this is coercion.People overlook the alternative. The simplest alternative is the same one that leads to the "American Dream".Go to school. Earn good grades. Attend a top quality university while taking advantage of scholarships and financial aid.Originally Posted by?pappjohn?TrueDonald Trump has said he will eliminate H1Bs totally. Here is the text from his website:I remain totally committed to eliminating rampant, widespread H-1B abuse and ending outrageous practices such as those that occurred at Disney in Florida when Americans were forced to train their foreign replacements. I will end forever the use of the H-1B as a cheap labor program, and institute an absolute requirement to hire American workers first for every visa and immigration program. No exceptions."The above statement from Trump is clear that he supports H1B visas. He's not getting rid of them. They already have 'rules' in place or the current H1B visa program regarding Trump's 2 issues. There are already current rules saying it cant be a cheap labor program and that America workers must be considered first. Since those 2 rules are already in place today, then Trump is just using smoke and mirrors in the above statement to confuse some people into thinking he's against the program. BTW, even though the 2 rules exist, there are legal and administrative loopholes to get around them.Trump could keep the existing H1B program intact with the exact rules that exist today, and his 'promise' above would still be met. In fact, Trump could increase the volume of H1B people coming into the USA, and the above promise would still be met.Originally Posted by?NJBest?People overlook the alternative. The simplest alternative is the same one that leads to the "American Dream".Go to school. Earn good grades. Attend a top quality university while taking advantage of scholarships and financial aid.I'm in the student loan servicing business. The dirty little secret of the industry is that academic scholarships have collapsed over the past 15 years or so. Good grades don't earn academic scholarships for most students.Originally Posted by?NJBest?Are you talking about the same Walt Disney that created?Education for Death: The Making of the Nazi (1943)?which featured Donald Duck in a Nazi uniform? Or were you talking about the Walt Disney that created?Song Of The South (1946)?which placed a new context on "Whistle while you work" by importing it into a southern plantation of black slaves??I don't think Mr. Disney would be disappointed at all. It seems to me that you don't know classic Disney really well at all.The man was a creative genius who loved this country. He was not a Savior, perfect and sinless and without flaws.?My gosh, that's the trouble with society today. Rather than look at the overwhelming majority of good done by a citizen, every jot and tittle of his life is examined under a microscope (without the benefit of historic context), and any flaws are shouted from the rooftop as incontrovertible PROOF that he was evil incarnate.?It's so wearisome.?I stand by my original statement.Originally Posted by?JohnJonz? worth watching and just goes to show you just how messed up employers are. They threaten to take away severance if people with decades of experience don't train their new employees who will make significantly less. I really feel for the guy, it's total BS how companies would rather have foreigners with little experience to pay less than have seasoned intelligent people but pay more.?Being forced to train your cheaper replacement to speed your demise, is plainly humiliating.What should have happened immediately after that is another meeting at Starbucks for all those affected to walk away and let the someone else train the workers. IMO he and his coworkers were forced into nothing, they sold their dignity. There are untold numbers of those who have been laid off without the benefit a of severance package.?The irony being this guy groveling in front of a branch of government that is regularly accused of corruption, only looking out for themselves and those who line their pockets. I wonder what this individual's opinion is of those who are fighting for higher minimum wage and Occupy Wall St movement?Originally Posted by?NJBest?People overlook the alternative. The simplest alternative is the same one that leads to the "American Dream".Go to school. Earn good grades. Attend a top quality university while taking advantage of scholarships and financial aid.That's never been the American Dream, dude. It used to be that if you wanted to work in a profession, you got an entry-level job in the profession and worked your way up the ranks. I don't think anyone considers it an improvement that we're now a hyper-competitive nation like South Korea and China where kids need to study 16 hours per day to get in the top 1% of their class to have any chance of landing a good job.Originally Posted by?blisterpeanuts?For all the complaining about people taking "our jobs" away, if employers were restricted to U.S citizens or green card holders, we'd all be up the creek. The work ethic in the U.S. has declined and it's hard to get and keep good people.If we want to go back to the (imaginary) golden age of great paying jobs right out of high school, we have to start with:#1 Better education -- higher standards, like the tough exams that high schools used to have, and let people flunk out if they don't actually study and work hard. Stop punishing the teachers when kids don't behave or work hard.#2 Better upbringing and family life -- discipline and self-respect, regular exposure to moral and ethical values such as weekly church or synagogue. Television should emphasize moral and ethical values rather than catering mainly to pure sexuality and violence. Don't just spoil your children but encourage them to work hard for what they get.These people coming in on H1B visas come from conservative societies like ours used to be, and they have strong work ethics. I've worked with a lot of them and I'd take them any time over the average lazy, drug using, backstabbing, entitled American.People here talk about H1B people like they're some kind of evil spawn, when in fact they're better people than a lot of us are. If they're being granted green cards and citizenship, more power to them. That's what's made our country great, is a constant flow of super hard working immigrants who outdo the natives to get ahead. The day we stop that flow is the day our country loses its greatness and we become like Brazil or Argentina, teetering on bankruptcy.And you're talking about H1B people as though they are the perfect spawn.I also think you are exaggerating when you say they are the total opposite from their US counterparts. People in this thread have been fair, a poster in the beginning mentioned there was a range of H1B workers from the very competent to the very inept.What you may be mistaking as disgust for H1B workers is frusration from US citizens who have toiled for this country, been taxed heavily and have lived by the motto 'hard work = automatic success' venting.There are tons of US workers who have great work ethics as well as the opposite. Same goes for foreign workers.It's no good to brag on other people and promote them over yourself when they ARE NOT saying the same about you. Americans really need to stop the foreign fantasy.Originally Posted by?RosemaryT?The man was a creative genius who loved this country. He was not a Savior, perfect and sinless and without flaws.?My gosh, that's the trouble with society today. Rather than look at the overwhelming majority of good done by a citizen, every jot and tittle of his life is examined under a microscope (without the benefit of historic context), and any flaws are shouted from the rooftop as incontrovertible PROOF that he was evil incarnate.?It's so wearisome.?I stand by my original statement.Your "creative genius who loved this country" would also be aligned with the actions his company is taking. If you consider it being a "real patriot" to reduce American jobs and cut wages, you and I have different opinions of the term."When his cartoonists tried to form a union, he brought in armed guards. He fired organisers, cut wages and slashed the opening hours of the studio coffee shop. At one point, faced with a strike picket, Disney had to be physically restrained from attacking the leader of the industrial action."--?The cruel reality of Disney's world | World news | The GuardianReal American?.Originally Posted by?dysgenic?I'm in the student loan servicing business. The dirty little secret of the industry is that academic scholarships have collapsed over the past 15 years or so. Good grades don't earn academic scholarships for most students.Can vouch. I got into a high ranking university, and I didn't get any financial aid at all despite high grades, because my parents' income were too high (not that it mattered for me, because they made it clear that even though they could easily help me with tuition, after high school (at 17), I should be an adult and on my own with everything).So I ended up just going to a cheaper university, because I didn't want to have to take out loans. I'm glad I made the decision I did, because I have a great job, no debt, am happily married, and we're close to being able to pay for a house in full. That said, no matter where one went to school, the rug can be pulled out from under anyone when it comes to being vulnerable to the global economy.Originally Posted by?NJBest?That report is flawed in that it looks at similar positions across multiple organizations. Take a look at individual organizations with identical positions. The wage difference is minimal if even existent.Take a look at Microsoft's actual visa applications, for example:? - The Visa DatabaseOr Facebooks:? - The Visa DatabaseOr Google:? - The Visa DatabaseOr Disney:? - The Visa DatabaseThese companies are paying reasonable wages.These reports do not tell the whole story. In order to get into the Apples and Googles and Facebooks, they have to be very very skilled, have masters degrees from top most US universities. And I dont think they are a threat or displace American workers. They are creme of the creme.?The billion dollar IT offshoring companies also do not abuse the program. They expect the H1B s to work here and go back to their location, but usually that doesnt happen.?The abuse mainly occurs at low level companies who mainly engage in staffing and earning out of it. They certainly pay only around 60k-70k and sometimes nothing when in bench..which is illegal. They can dictate and threaten and usually employees oblige in order to remain in status..If they address this slavery, the abuse might come down.Congressional investigations are political theatre.This one is headed by Republican Senator Jeff Sessions who just endorsed Trump.Coincidence? I think not. Clearly the staff of Mr. Make America Great Again by magically bringing back American jobs without being able to say how he will do that has been in contact with Mr. Sessions staff.To think that the witnesses proclaiming Disney evil have not been coached by Mr. Session's staff is na?ve.Not saying they are right or wrong, simply be careful you are not duped. If they are wrong, lying or misrepresenting the situation, you wont know anytime soon or ever, because by the time that's uncovered no one will care anymore and it simply wont be reported.What will happen is a lot of sound and fury(possibly signifying nothing) will be ginned up to support Trump's candidacy, costly but meaningless laws will be passed to make it look like something was done and nothing will be accomplished even if it needed to be. Even worse, detrimental laws will be passed when nothing needed to be done.Predictable turns in this thread, like "are you going to boycott the alleged abusers?". Maybe Disney can be boycotted, but it is harder to boycott the electric company.The comparisons to 1980s autoworkers aren't an exact parallel, since at that time there were numerous efforts made at a soft landing for those workers, so they could get training and then land in the new job market.?The scenario where H1B workers are paid the same as Americans works like this:The employer says they are recruiting for entry level workers for existing systems in IT. They have no entry level workers so they invent an entry level pay scale. In some cases they also relocate the job to a low cost of living area like Dubuque (right, IBM?) to justify the lower wage. They don't get the applicants, because college grads want to make Google type money. The employer then says they can't get the applicants, and the H1B is granted.What we wind up with is H1B depressing IT wages, and the massive population in the US illegally is depressing the blue collar wages or elminating the position.Quote:Originally Posted by?NJBest?Are you talking about the same Walt Disney that created?Education for Death: The Making of the Nazi (1943)?which featured Donald Duck in a Nazi uniform? Or were you talking about the Walt Disney that created?Song Of The South (1946)?which placed a new context on "Whistle while you work" by importing it into a southern plantation of black slaves??I don't think Mr. Disney would be disappointed at all. It seems to me that you don't know classic Disney really well at all.A couple of cherry picked items. Song of the South was almost what you say. Actually it was set in the post-Civil war era, but definitely the idea of the wise storyteller Uncle Remus and the young white kid are unrealistic. Now... that was 1946. Today, Disney will not release Song of the South on home video, and has not released it in theaters since the 1980s. One thing that can't be overlooked is that in 1946, kindly Uncle Remus is a character who gives a positive portrayal of a Black male in a movie that was sure to be viewed by white and black kids alike.Big miss on "Education for Death" which was a 1943 Anti-Nazi propaganda film, where a young German boy is programmed for doing evil, but the message at the end is he is sure to meet his death at the hands of the Allies, who are presumed to be militarily and morally superior.Originally Posted by?NJBest?People overlook the alternative. The simplest alternative is the same one that leads to the "American Dream".Go to school. Earn good grades. Attend a top quality university while taking advantage of scholarships and financial aid.But he did do this, the Disney IT workers went to good schools, learned their jobs and now? That's the thing, cheap replacements have come in and destroyed what once was a great job...Originally Posted by?80skeys?You are correct. H1Bs are paid the same, therefore financial gain is not the reason. The reason there are so many H1Bs in the IT sector is because of need. There is too much work and not enough Americans to do it.That's it.I'd believe that if they weren't replacing US workers. Since they are, then there's other reasons...MONEY...Originally Posted by?Disgustedman?But he did do this, the Disney IT workers went to good schools, learned their jobs and now? That's the thing, cheap replacements have come in and destroyed what once was a great job...He has a bachelors degree in IT. IT isn't even an academic field. His job title was "Application Developer Specialist".Which Visa applications listed here are "cheap"?? - The Visa DatabaseOriginally Posted by?TexasTony?Thats debatable. The ones working Full Time for the US public company directly might have comparable salaries but the ones working via Indian consulting companies are definitely paid way less. If they were hired in India and sent to US, they might still be paid in Indian currency and will get a daily per diem in USD on daily basis.I contracted at Yahoo headquarters here in Sunnyvale for a year. All of the contractors were paid the same, regardless of which consulting company you were coming through. There was no negotiation of wage. Everyone got the same flat rate. I am friends with the guy who was the boss of all of the service engineering contractors at Yahoo.?I was offered a full time job there. The group I worked with was about 30 people, all of which were Indian except for the three of us. I was the only contractor, the rest were permanent employees. The others who were on the operations team made exactly the same salary as what I was offered, which was the prevailing market rate the at the time. And they also took part of exactly the same benefits: free cafeteria, vacation, medical, stock, 401k, etc.Quote:The issue is that H-1B is only the first step of entry to US and once they are here there is no one stopping them to switch companies.Except they won't switch companies, because then they would have to start the whole process over again with a new sponsor.?Quote:The irony is that most of IT H-1B foreign workers complain about low wages and slave labor conditionsof the dozens of Indians I have worked side by side with, I have only heard one complain about his wage. He was a contractor who was going through several layers of different contractors/sub-contractors.Originally Posted by?Disgustedman?I'd believe that if they weren't replacing US workers. Since they are,i have not seen this at all here in Silicon Valley. I work with people from all over the world here, including Americans. You only get replaced if you aren't doing your job, that's true whether your Chinese, American, Indian or anybody else. By the way, here in San Jose there of course a lot of people driving luxury cars. Based on sheer numbers alone, probably half of them driven by Indians and probably another 25% are driven by Chinese. What does this tell you? It says they are at least making enough money to pay their $3000/month apartment + their monthly Audi car payment + other misc California living expenes + support their spouse, kids and in many cases parents from overseas who are staying with them to help out at home. It's hardly "slave labor wages" that they're getting.By the way, I'm American, my contract ended last month and so I started looking for a new job. It only took me about two weeks to land another full time job. I didn't have any problem at all getting interviews and I didn't even start my job search until about a week after my last day at the other place.Originally Posted by?80skeys?i have not seen this at all here in Silicon Valley. I work with people from all over the world here, including Americans. You only get replaced if you aren't doing your job, that's true whether your Chinese, American, Indian or anybody else. By the way, here in San Jose there of course a lot of people driving luxury cars. Based on sheer numbers alone, probably half of them driven by Indians and probably another 25% are driven by Chinese. What does this tell you? It says they are at least making enough money to pay their $3000/month apartment + their monthly Audi car payment + other misc California living expenes + support their spouse, kids and in many cases parents from overseas who are staying with them to help out at home. It's hardly "slave labor wages" that they're getting.Great, so you're going to compare SV with Disney...Sure, go with that...Originally Posted by?NJBest?He has a bachelors degree in IT. IT isn't even an academic field. His job title was "Application Developer Specialist".Which Visa applications listed here are "cheap"?? - The Visa DatabaseAnd what were the employees getting before? You can easily NOT provide a pension, and other benefits due to "Contract" work...Looks like the company wins..Originally Posted by?80skeys?i have not seen this at all here in Silicon Valley. I work with people from all over the world here, including Americans. You only get replaced if you aren't doing your job, that's true whether your Chinese, American, Indian or anybody else. By the way, here in San Jose there of course a lot of people driving luxury cars. Based on sheer numbers alone, probably half of them driven by Indians and probably another 25% are driven by Chinese. What does this tell you? It says they are at least making enough money to pay their $3000/month apartment + their monthly Audi car payment + other misc California living expenes + support their spouse, kids and in many cases parents from overseas who are staying with them to help out at home. It's hardly "slave labor wages" that they're getting.By the way, I'm American, my contract ended last month and so I started looking for a new job. It only took me about two weeks to land another full time job. I didn't have any problem at all getting interviews and I didn't even start my job search until about a week after my last day at the other place.It's nice of you to share your experiences, which I do not doubt are true. Some of us are witnessing a different reality, which we ask you not to doubt in return. Some people are being brought in at lower wages in different parts of the world than you live in. Silicon Valley has been "different" for 30 years. That doesn't mean that is happening everywhere else.Originally Posted by?Disgustedman?And what were the employees getting before? You can easily NOT provide a pension, and other benefits due to "Contract" work...Looks like the company wins..I don't think it's been revealed what he was making before. You cannot hire contractors with h1B visas. They must be employees. worth watching and just goes to show you just how messed up employers are. They threaten to take away severance if people with decades of experience don't train their new employees who will make significantly less. I really feel for the guy, it's total BS how companies would rather have foreigners with little experience to pay less than have seasoned intelligent people but pay more.?Being forced to train your cheaper replacement to speed your demise, is plainly humiliating.The only real answer is, of course, for that person to start their own business!! I'm sure the CD elite will tell you just how easy and fast it is. Makes you wonder why EVERY american doesn't start their own business. Oh did I tell you how EASY it is??Originally Posted by?Rabrrita?But, if it adds to the bottom line and that in turn increases dividend to the stockholders, I;m all for doing it. If the employee doesn't have the skills to find another job in today's global economy, maybe they should consider a promising career in the Fast Food Industry.?I wonder if he was crying when he went shopping and bought foreign made goods? Bet he never thought twice about all the american jobs being loss to foreign competition. But now that it's hitting him, boo-hoo-hoo crying to mommy to do his laundry.We spend way too much time whining and complaining about foreign workers and not enough time producing and competing financially so there is no advantage to hiring them.So it's ALWAYS the employee's fault? Because companies NEVER do anything wrong, and NEVER treat their workers poorly in the name of profits and shareholder bootlicking?Originally Posted by?MongooseHugger?Dude, are you part of the 1%? You are COLD!I'm seeing that CD is full of these types. Must be a Trumper, and is grown cold because he cant find out if his beloved Donald is really as big a boy as he says he is??it's just frustration!!Originally Posted by?Vision67?In America, the only thing that matters is increasing shareholder value.Executives must deliver. Otherwise they are replaced.If you don't like that, you are welcome to buy up all the stock and run the company as you like.Which is why america sucks as bad as it does, nothing but haves and have nots, playing a rigged game in favor of the rich and well connected.Originally Posted by?Turpentine?So it's ALWAYS the employee's fault? Because companies NEVER do anything wrong, and NEVER treat their workers poorly in the name of profits and shareholder bootlicking?Plainly speaking it is the Government's job to protect the safety, welfare and livelihood of it's citizens. All corporations operate within the confines of regulatory bodies both here and abroad. It is the Government's job to provide oversight. What Disney did goes against the whole Raison D'etre for the H1B program.What we are talking about is a misuse of a Government program designed to benefit US high-tech companies for hard-to-fill positions. It is NOT for replacing US IT workers with low paid, low skilled contract workers, employed by Indian Bodyshoppers.?If the company want's to outsource - they are free to do so, but as long as the position remains in the US it should not be filled by overseas workers on H1Bs visas.Originally Posted by?80skeys?i have not seen this at all here in Silicon Valley.?I work with people from all over the world here, including Americans. You only get replaced if you aren't doing your job, that's true whether your Chinese, American, Indian or anybody else. By the way, here in San Jose there of course a lot of people driving luxury cars. Based on sheer numbers alone, probably half of them driven by Indians and probably another 25% are driven by Chinese. What does this tell you? It says they are at least making enough money to pay their $3000/month apartment + their monthly Audi car payment + other misc California living expenes + support their spouse, kids and in many cases parents from overseas who are staying with them to help out at home. It's hardly "slave labor wages" that they're getting.By the way, I'm American, my contract ended last month and so I started looking for a new job. It only took me about two weeks to land another full time job. I didn't have any problem at all getting interviews and I didn't even start my job search until about a week after my last day at the other place.Then you are blind....."There is a massive demand for H-1B visas around the United States but in particular in Silicon Valley.?Among the total working population, 45 percent of workers are foreign born, but in tech, the numbers are skewed with 75 percent being foreign born and many are here on?H-1B visas earning a much lower wage than their American counterparts."Importing lower wages as 75% of Silicon ValleyIt's happening a lot in SV.?Originally Posted by?Vacanegro?Plainly speaking it is the Government's job to protect the safety, welfare and livelihood of it's citizens.?All corporations operate within the confines of regulatory bodies both here and abroad. It is the Government's job to provide oversight. What Disney did goes against the whole Raison D'etre for the H1B program.What we are talking about is a misuse of a Government program designed to benefit US high-tech companies for hard-to-fill positions. It is NOT for replacing US IT workers with low paid, low skilled contract workers, employed by Indian Bodyshoppers.?If the company want's to outsource - they are free to do so, but as long as the position remains in the US it should not be filled by overseas workers on H1Bs visas.Exactly, make sure you vote Trump in then and maybe our government will make sure our livelihood stays intact.Originally Posted by?High Altitude?When I think about what it takes to get a job today compared to 15-20 years ago I can't help but think how much we have gone backwards.?We aren't helping our country one bit. We should be giving our fellow Americans a hand up instead of doing everything possible to cast them aside.I totally agree. I honestly think the prevailing attitude among many employers is not that they are hiring someone to get work accomplished. I think its more on the lines of telling themselves what a wonderful opportunity the low wage, low benefit job they are offering is. They have come to look at it as something that someone has to "earn" or 'deserve". The job is a reward for the few people who can successfully navigate a minefield of things that would keep them from being hired.I do think more people ought to think in terms of self-employment. You will be a much fairer boss to yourself than someone else will be. However, a tight job market is probably the only thing that is going to make things better. Even than, I expect all sorts of efforts by employers to try and recruit workers from foreign countries or to get tax breaks for automating and eliminating jobs altogether. The real question is why the rest of the country--that has little to gain--stands still for this.When I hear these stories, I thank the Lord every day that I had the good sense to go to work for myself.Originally Posted by?Hemlock140?We have 1,900 employees, and currently over 50 openings. HR cannot keep up with the backlog. I have been one person short for 6 weeks now waiting for them to get to my opening which is at about $23/hour, one of the lowest pay jobs. We are getting people starting to retire in significant numbers, but also some middle range ($80-120k) people getting recruited away for more money."Help Wanted" signs are all over, but those are almost all minimum wage ($9.47-$15 here depending on the city). Jobs that pay well require degrees and experience, and don't advertise with signs in the window.What qualifications are you asking for? Are you willing to train? Is the wage actually competitive? Are you asking people to have 2 or 3 different skill sets so they can take the place of multiple people - because that's what I see happening in lots of places.Originally Posted by?Scooby Snacks?Which is what exactly? The hoops employers require in order a candidate to jump through in order to get a decent job now are astounding. First there is finding that the job opening exists, and that in itself can be a task. A lot of companies only hire internally. Then if the candidate finds the opening, the employer only wants a resume sent over; they don't care about meeting a human being. So if the person's resume isn't picture perfect with no gaps, not enough education, or, (gasp!) no experience doing that exact job, in the shredder it goes. It doesn't matter if the person may be an excellent employee, even though the resume might not reflect that; the employer would never know because they don't bother meeting them. Then the candidate hears back if they get an interview, or more likely, they don't get an interview, so it's on to the next business, on and on ad infinitum.?Then even if they get an interview, if they don't answer a bunch of sometimes bizarre questions exactly correctly, they fail, and usually never hear back from them again, so they're left hanging about the job prospect. Even if they pass that one, they may have to attend several more interviews, and may fail at any one of those. And they might have to travel for an interview, which people looking for a job can ill afford. Assuming they have passed all the interviews, there are the background checks, drug tests, and possibly credit checks. That credit check often eliminates good candidates because low paying jobs often saddle people with a lot of unpaid bills, and candidates with bad credit MUST be thieves??So let's say the candidate actually passed all this. What, they want to get paid??? But the employer has left the question of pay a mystery, and the candidate needs $XX,000 to survive. But the employer will only pay 2/3 of that. So then the employee is caught between a rock and a hard place: whether to accept too low pay in a still employer's market or go through the whole job hunting ordeal again. No wonder people get depressed at the thought of finding a new job.Well said. That's exactly what's happening right now.Human Resources was the worst thing to happen to the jobs market. It used to be that you could contact the hiring manager directly, sell yourself, give references, the manager would call your references, THEY assigned your pay based on THEIR own budget, if you both agreed you could start a day later. Now companies take MONTHS to fill positions because the process is completely bureaucratic and full of errors.?Position opens up, manager submits request to their higher ups, they approve, manager submits request to HR, sits in their queue for days to weeks, they do "research," they post position using their new whatever the current trendy software or experiment is, software matches job description to keywords in resumes, dozens to thousands of great applications are filtered out due to lack of keywords, HR gets a stack of approved resumes and filters through them, HR contacts applicants and filters out people asking too much pay even though they have unique skillsets that are invaluable to the company, forward resumes to hiring manager, interviews, back to HR to sit on their desk for a few weeks, top applicants accept role somewhere else because of time that has elapsed, start process all over again or take one of the remaining applicants that werent that stellar.Originally Posted by?thatguydownsouth?Human Resources was the worst thing to happen to the jobs market. It used to be that you could contact the hiring manager directly, sell yourself, give references, the manager would call your references, THEY assigned your pay based on THEIR own budget, if you both agreed you could start a day later. Now companies take MONTHS to fill positions because the process is completely bureaucratic and full of errors.?Position opens up, manager submits request to their higher ups, they approve, manager submits request to HR, sits in their queue for days to weeks, they do "research," they post position using their new whatever the current trendy software or experiment is, software matches job description to keywords in resumes, dozens to thousands of great applications are filtered out due to lack of keywords, HR gets a stack of approved resumes and filters through them, HR contacts applicants and filters out people asking too much pay even though they have unique skillsets that are invaluable to the company, forward resumes to hiring manager, interviews, back to HR to sit on their desk for a few weeks, top applicants accept role somewhere else because of time that has elapsed, start process all over again or take one of the remaining applicants that werent that stellar.Large organizations are notorious for this. I went from a larger employer (though no blue chip company by any means) to a smaller one, and things just move much faster at the smaller company. Granted, the larger employer had more bureaucracy and in-fighting, but it's still a big difference. We'd often be so slow that by the time an offer was made (not even counting the time to open a req.), the candidate had since moved on and received another offer.The Obama adminstration is encouraging illegal Immigration to increase the democrat voter count.Obviously these immigrants compete for jobs and some win them. This means natives loose opportunity.The real unemployment rate in the US IS OVER 20% today!Originally Posted by?vision33r?It must be where you are located because in densely populated places there no shortage of US IT workers. It's places that aren't so populated that have problems recruiting native IT workers. I get calls and emails from tech recruiters everyday to come to smaller cities.?Unless these companies paying top dollar or help people relocate there's no way I nor others would go there vs going to a big city like NYC where you can make top $$ and top tier companies.So Yes, there are towns in America that won't attract any workers unless they import them.The companies should pay more if they want good workers. But they won't so they import the cheaper worker who fills the chair.Originally Posted by?PDD?A good friend at ATT is in the same boat, is required to train foreigners to do his job and he is just waiting to be told his job is gone. Been there 30 years. He makes 100K+ and the foreigners are signing on for 50K.Corporate America is screwing over all the Americans to keep the stockholders happy.When is it all going to end?When the revolution comes. Which it won't, as long as enough Americans are content...i.e. fat, dumb, and docile. The prevailing lack of empathy and extreme emphasis on individualism means that by and large, Americans do not care about any issue unless it affects them DIRECTLY.So, millions more Americans will have to lose their jobs to foreigners before we storm Congress with torches and pitchforks. Probably won't happen in my lifetime.?It does take the sting out of the fact that I will most likely never have children. At least I don't have to worry about their futures.Originally Posted by?BigDGeek?When the revolution comes. Which it won't, as long as enough Americans are content...i.e. fat, dumb, and docile. The prevailing lack of empathy and extreme emphasis on individualism means that by and large, Americans do not care about any issue unless it affects them DIRECTLY.So, millions more Americans will have to lose their jobs to foreigners before we storm Congress with torches and pitchforks. Probably won't happen in my lifetime.?It does take the sting out of the fact that I will most likely never have children. At least I don't have to worry about their futures.You forget it's not Americans being displaced, it's jobs that aren't being created when they're already filled by non-Americans. The biggest group that are affected directly without knowing is the 18-28 age group. This group are driving less, higher rate of unemployment, and slow wage gain. They're directly affected.Many jobs today require either a cheap immigrant worker or an over-qualified worker 30+ I've worked at several job sites as a consultant. I'm not seeing any college grads out of college being hired to fill many skilled positions. You see a lot of young immigrants being brought in and trained to fill may skilled positions but they need an American to manage them.?Most boomers are close to retirement, some will retire while some are forced to take paycuts and work at retail because they didn't save or their company retirement plan went bankrupt.America need to do something about getting their younger population re-educated or else the student loan bubble will pop. Too many young people with big loans and their current job doesn't pay enough to help them.Originally Posted by?vision33r?America need to do something about getting their younger population re-educated or else the student loan bubble will pop. Too many young people with big loans and their current job doesn't pay enough to help them.Oh stop it, that's absurd.?1.) You cannot effect a paradigm shift in the US education system in a short amount of time. Period. So spare me your unrealistic "advice". Besides, who's going to pay for it? The GOVERNMENT???? LOL! Kids who already have a Lexus to a mortgage's worth of student loan payments? Spare me. "Look, we know you're $50k in debt from getting that STEM degree that everyone said you needed to get to find a decent paying job after graduation, but sorry...we gave all the jobs to the Indians. Why don't you go back and try again?"?2.) We already have some of the most highly educated college graduates on earth. Our tertiary education system is so outstanding that people travel here from all over the world and pay absurdly high tuition rates just to experience it. Problem is, too many of them stay on to work afterwards.?3.) We train plenty of STEM workers in this country. Problem is, corporate America keeps cutting our graduates off at the knees by hiring foreigners and having the sheer nerve to criticize American graduates for being "entitled whiners" for being quite rightly pissed off that at the end of four-plus years and potentially tens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt getting that STEM degree, they cannot find a job because all of those jobs are either being shipped off to India or given to foreigners right here in the US.?Life's a race, but our young people are starting theirs with broken ankles...and there's practically a wall of fire with a firing squad behind it when they get to the finish line. It's total crap and it needs to stop.Originally Posted by?NYCresident2014?The idea that Americans somehow deserve the cushy high paying job simply because they were born here just doesn't make sense in a global economy. The company will always be better off paying less elsewhere, or by hiring two workers for the price of one, etc.Following that line of reasoning to the logical conclusion...There are 4 billion poor people in the world. We should just relocate them all here so all labor can be done for $0.25 per hour. Just what I wanted. A billion Indians who refuse to use indoor plumbing crapping on my lawn.Originally Posted by?NJBest?I don't think it's been revealed what he was making before. You cannot hire contractors with h1B visas. They must be employees.They can be employees of the agency this is where TATA and Inforsys come along. Lovely loophole.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?They can be employees of the agency this is where TATA and Inforsys come along. Lovely loophole.That's Infosys. In my universe, Infosys is everywhere. I know lots of cellular, telephone, and cable industry tech employees who were replaced by Infosys H-1B contractors. In an even more cruel irony, many of the employees were offered jobs at 50 cents on the dollar by Infosys the day they were "laid off" so they couldn't even file for unemployment benefits. These are regulated or at least semi-regulated monopolies doing it and these are engineering jobs, not just pure "IT".?It just goes to show how Congress is bought & paid for by the big corporate interests. If you scan down the list of top-100 corporate contributors, there are an awful lot who use H-1B contractors.'s a piece about Mark Zuckerberg pushing for Immigration Reform and having Marco Rubio as his man to push for this piece of Immigration Reform which he calls for unlimited H1-B1 Visas for Technology workers in order to strengthen the Technology Industry.Bingo, Zuckerberg and Facepuke are harming American tech workers!There are plenty of unemployed US Computer Scientists and Engineers that would love a good job.Too bad Zuckerberg doesn't want them.Note Zuckerberg probably donates to Hillary Clinton, just like many of the the corrupt tech CEOs and corrupt bankers.Originally Posted by?80skeys?Yeah and he's not going to follow through with anything if he gets elected, because he's not a politician, he doesn't know how to work the ropes in D.C.Your statement doesn't jibe with the fact that isn't the unemployment rate currently something like 4%?Trump is working with Jeff Sessions when it comes to the whole H1-B fiasco. Thus, I believe that something positive will get done.Do you even know how they come up with the unemployment rate? Answer: They don't count those who have given up trying to find work and they don't count those who are underemployed.There is no shortage of IT workers. Just look at Disney. They had experienced American IT workers already but dumped them for H1-Bs.It was taking me a while to find work when I first moved to my current city 10 years ago. I wound up accepting a help desk position at a large (orange) home improvement retailer. It was a level 1 position but I humbly accepted it despite having many years of IT experience in desktop support and networking.?About 10 months to a year in, we learned that our jobs were being outsourced to Tata and we would have the pleasure of training our Indian overlords. I jokingly called it digging my own grave. I took it in stride, several folks left and the underperformers were released. I did my best to train these folks that barely spoke English. I had fun with it, either goofing on them or making them cry (not intentionally, of course). I was promoted to Level 2 for all my efforts but alas, it wasn't enough. I left and got a great job at a university where I still work as an IT manager today. I didn't cry about it, I took action and made my situation better. I didn't even finish college but have always managed to be gainfully employed for the past 30 years. Sure, I'm not going to be rich on my salary but I earn a nice living.?A similar thing happened in my first professional position back in the 80s. I worked for a defense contractor and they started to lay people off by 1992. By the end of '92, it was announced that the company would be packing it in and moving...to Alabama. So what did I do? I moved. To Detroit. Besides moving to Austin, Detroit was the best move I ever made. Alabama is nice I'm sure but it's not my cup of tea.Originally Posted by?Rabrrita?But, if it adds to the bottom line and that in turn increases dividend to the stockholders, .Um this is old thinking! It doesn't make it to the stockholders anymore, it goes directly to the CEO and his buddies. The stockholders get NOTHING! Look at how much CEO's are bringing down these days. Maybe big companies are paying over a million a month or more. It is sickening! People are all impressed with a Bill Gates, but he is the poster boy for taking everything and shipping jobs overseas to make as much for himself as he could. He doesn't care about American people, he just wants to squeeze every dime he can to make himself as rich as he can. Stockholders? What kind of dividend are people seeing? Not much. It is all about the superrich top people taking it all. Look at Oracle and what that CEO is making and look at the stock price for the past 3 years or so and the dividend. He is taking it all.Originally Posted by?NJBest?Disney cannot control what other companies do. If you look at the numbers, Disney is paying good money for who they personally hire.Oh you better believe the client can dictate to the contract agencies what they can do. The contract agencies will kiss their butts for business. They simply choose not to. They know full well TATA and Infosys are breaking immigration laws and robbing workers blind but since they are able to pass off liability to the contract companies they are perfectly happy. That is what a lot of the big companies in my area do with workers particularly STEM workers. THey hire through these awful agencies and abuse the heck out of workers, pay them far below market salaries, deny them benefits, lay them off if they get sick or burned out.The company I work for had to severe ties with an agency when we found out they were not performing citizenship checks and were hiring illegals which is a violation of our food safety program.It’s a truism that most people with Asperger’s syndrome are unable to find any employment. They can go to college all they want, they can have all the hard skills they want. But it’s a very high chance that they will never enjoy any employment. Not even McDonalds would hire them, and even then it is not recommended for anyone with that type of autism to work in the service industry. It’s a good chance they will be stuck with SSI (Supplemental Security Insurance) for a long time.?Throughout my 23 years of living on this earth I’m fully aware of this issue of not only unemployment but the real reason why people are unemployed. Some factors of unemployment are in their control, some factors of unemployment are out of their control, and some of those factors are from society itself. More specifically with people with Asperger’s syndrome it’s both things that our out of their control that they are born with, innate functions and society are the problem.?The first real reason why people with Asperger’s are unemployable because they at one way or another socially disabled. They can be socially disabled because of past experience dealing with people. They might be bullied and mistreated routinely while they were children. This experience will still affect them throughout adulthood without support to unlearn behaviors gained from childhood.?However the real reason why people with Asperger’s are unemployed because their difficulty of creating and/or maintaining relationships. When people go to college, they expect to get a degree and head off to a job thinking that they will be hired. But the sad truth and the reality of the situation is that it’s not the case: You need really need social connections in order to get a job and in order to get social connections you need to be more social with people. Especially with the recent glut of college grads finding out that they’re unemployable.?People with asperger’s usually have difficulty with aspects of social connection because of various reasons. They have difficulty or have no interest in small talk unless it’s something related to their interest. They may be more interested in college life than the social part of college life. In addition, they have interest more narrow than general people who have general mainstream interests that people with asperger’s have little interest or find them unappealing. Because people with Asperger’s can’t relate they often have difficulty having making friends or social connections.?Other reasons that are related are the lack of soft skills and prejudice and stereotypes of people with a people with asperger’s.?People who deny the existence of autism disorders will simply tell them to just “Get friends” or “Get a job”, thinking that it’s easy just like picking a pencil. But really it isn’t. It takes time. Sadly people with Asperger’s need real help in getting a job other than kneejerk relations or stock advice that worked for other people.I agree with what has been posted above but I want to add something that must be acknowledged as an aggravating factor.?I blame right wing neoliberal politics, economics and the infamous NAIRU, holy writ since about 1979 in most Western countries. In the 1960s, young people could "drop out" for months, even years, and could get work after. Today, you must account for every second of every year of your past and if you don't there's a big Reserve Army of Labour with other candidates. People with AS are not as likely to be quickly employed as a result of their social difficulties and lack of contacts, and they are more likely to keep to themselves and do their own thing and such things are frowned upon by the bosses whom they need to hire them. If there wasn't say a Reserve Army of Labour pegged at 5.5% the bosses would not have this awesome power to make such unreasonable demands.Jkid wrote:People who deny the existence of autism disorders will simply tell them to just “Get friends” or “Get a job”, thinking that it’s easy just like picking a pencil. But really it isn’t. It takes time. Sadly people with Asperger’s need real help in getting a job other than kneejerk relations or stock advice that worked for other people.I hesitate to discuss the minutia of adversities confronting me in the job-hunting ratrace,?but I agree that the kneejerk stock advice intended for others is insufficient for me.?Things like how to "be polite" or "act confident" or "stay relaxed" sounds like abstract gibberish to me.?Does that mean I lean slightly forward in my seat? How far??Does that mean I answer questions snappy, or wait 3 seconds after the question so I don't accidentally interrupt??To speak "confident", do I modulate my voice down, or suppress my accent, or pace my syllables regularly? etc. etc. etc.?There are sooooo many variables I have to control by default just to make my presence tolerable to other people.?If I try to control any more, I go crazy.I just consider the entire original post to be trolling.?I have AS, and I'm fully employable. I held the same job for three and a half years, without even once having a customer, a co-worker, or a superior bring a complaint against me. I'd still be working there if I hadn't relocated to a different state. I had both people's respect and friendship where I worked. Sure, it wasn't a great job; it was often rather boring and repetitive and didn't pay particularly well, but I got to work mostly independently, and got to listen to music while I worked, too. Sure, my social skills and executive functioning aren't quite up to par in some areas, but that never stopped me from doing my job to the best of my ability, (which was really all that mattered in the long run) and if I needed clarification on something, I'd ask, and my co-workers or manager would be happy to explain it to me.Thanks for the post OP. You get it....we live in a world where social skills are valued more than anything else. I have a bachelors and masters degree, a high GPA in both, and earned scholarships for both (I have no student loan debt). I lose out on jobs to the guy with a GED who can carry conversations on football.?Zokk wrote:I just consider the entire original post to be trolling.?I have AS, and I'm fully employable. I held the same job for three and a half years, without even once having a customer, a co-worker, or a superior bring a complaint against me. I'd still be working there if I hadn't relocated to a different state. I had both people's respect and friendship where I worked. Sure, it wasn't a great job; it was often rather boring and repetitive and didn't pay particularly well, but I got to work mostly independently, and got to listen to music while I worked, too. Sure, my social skills and executive functioning aren't quite up to par in some areas, but that never stopped me from doing my job to the best of my ability, (which was really all that mattered in the long run) and if I needed clarification on something, I'd ask, and my co-workers or manager would be happy to explain it to me.I've held down jobs in the past too, but they weren't good ones. So maybe not all Aspies have an UNemployment problem, but many who don't have an UNDERemployment problem instead. A disproportionate number of Aspies are stuck in dead-end jobs despite finishing college and in some cases, grad school as well.You need references to get a job and that is my road block there. They always ask for references or recommendation letters or a cover letter. I have difficulty in those areas so those are my road blocks. I know other people can struggle with this too such as social anxiety or other conditions that will cause someone to lack friends. Plus normal people fake their reference by paying someone to pretend they know them or have their relatives pretend they are just a friend, not related.?I don't understand why work wants small talk. I never had that problem. I just went to work and did my job and don't bosses want people to be serious and just do their job than talking to others? However if you work as cashier or teacher or whatever, you end up talking to parents about their children and as a cashier you will end up talking to customers and doing the small talk. Same as if you work in retail, you are to ask customers if they need help finding anything. I think I can do that because it be all scripts but I bet it be exhausting.?Even telling me to just get a job or get friends isn't helpful for me either.Yeah, it’s bad and getting worse… Social skills and abilities are considered more and more, even in jobs where they should have little bearing.?I was really confident going into the interview for the last tech job I applied for. The position was at a small packaging equipment manufacturer and involved installing/upgrading/refurbishing control systems—something I have YEARS of experience doing.?After a short tour of the shop, I had a “team interview” with the other techs in the department. Right then, I knew I was doomed!?It seemed as if they were more interested in my ability to fit it than in my technical skills… I guess it’s some new HR BS theory about team building or something.?I always do great in one on one interviews with greedy owners or grumpy supervisors who only care about getting results because I seem cold, arrogant and confident in my abilities.?I don’t do so great convincing potential coworkers that I’ll be a fun guy to work with because I seem cold, arrogant and confident in my abilities.…??Needless to say, I did not get the job.yeah, like on job applications for supermarkets etc: "we are looking for someone who is 100% honest and trustworthy to join our friendly team blah blah blah"?first question they ask is: why do you want the job??my answer: because i need the money. (im being honest...)?they wanted someone who is "100% honest and trustworthy" yet expect the same person to bullsh*t their way thru an application... wtf??secondly, i have a degree and experience working with high voltage and lifting heavy objects, yet im not qualified to lift light boxes in a supermarket or pour a drink in a pub? they would much rather hire a school dropout who quits the job 2 weeks later, thus requiring more training time for another dropout - ad lib, ad hoc, ad nauseum...?if someone would like to explain this to me, go ahead. im all ears.Thanks for the post OP. You get it....we live in a world where social skills are valued more than anything else. I have a bachelors and masters degree, a high GPA in both, and earned scholarships for both (I have no student loan debt). I lose out on jobs to the guy with a GED who can carry conversations on football.?i think having a masters degree makes u a bit overqualified to flip burgers??one thing i suppose you could do is go into a business partnership with someone (possibly an NT)?that way, the NT would do more of the accounting/finding customers side of things ("hey, we need to make x amount this month, buy this etc")?while you handle the more creative side of things thus playing to ur strengths ... just an idea.Zokk wrote:I just consider the entire original post to be trolling.I have AS, and I'm fully employable. I held the same job for three and a half years, without even once having a customer, a co-worker, or a superior bring a complaint against me. I'd still be working there if I hadn't relocated to a different state. I had both people's respect and friendship where I worked. Sure, it wasn't a great job; it was often rather boring and repetitive and didn't pay particularly well, but I got to work mostly independently, and got to listen to music while I worked, too. Sure, my social skills and executive functioning aren't quite up to par in some areas, but that never stopped me from doing my job to the best of my ability, (which was really all that mattered in the long run) and if I needed clarification on something, I'd ask, and my co-workers or manager would be happy to explain it to me.I think the post is mostly worth considering, but I too held a job, two jobs, one for a year and a half and one for two years. I liked my coworkers and they liked me. But now, with everything done online, it's much more complicated then it used to be. Because everything is done in such an informal manner, it gives employers a false sense of security that there will be a better candidate that e-mails them, much in the same way that girls on dating sites get a false sense of security thinking that there will always be a better guy to e-mail them. At this point, the only things that matter anymore are A) references and resumes, B) writing skills for applications and C) interview skills with increased pressure, because the interviewer can always say "I can fill this position in an hour, why should I hire you?" Why take a chance on someone who appears to be a little different when there are a dozen other willing slaves that can fill in?Socializing and dealing with testy individuals was probably my biggest weakness in a job where I was a supervisor. I liked being an ordinary worker better. Now my biggest weakness is networking. I tend to drift away from prior contacts and I find it very difficult to be pulled away from the work I want to do.I agree with what has been posted above but I want to add something that must be acknowledged as an aggravating factor.I blame right wing neoliberal politics, economics and the infamous NAIRU, holy writ since about 1979 in most Western countries. In the 1960s, young people could "drop out" for months, even years, and could get work after. Today, you must account for every second of every year of your past and if you don't there's a big Reserve Army of Labour with other candidates. People with AS are not as likely to be quickly employed as a result of their social difficulties and lack of contacts, and they are more likely to keep to themselves and do their own thing and such things are frowned upon by the bosses whom they need to hire them. If there wasn't say a Reserve Army of Labour pegged at 5.5% the bosses would not have this awesome power to make such unreasonable demands.I'm afraid that is true. Because of the permanent recession anyone who is unemployed by more than six months are automatically removed from consideration for employment. They're doing this because it's more cheaper to removed unemployed entirely than to search for qualified people.Fatal-Noogie wrote:I hesitate to discuss the minutia of adversities confronting me in the job-hunting ratrace,?but I agree that the kneejerk stock advice intended for others is insufficient for me.?Things like how to "be polite" or "act confident" or "stay relaxed" sounds like abstract gibberish to me.?Does that mean I lean slightly forward in my seat? How far??Does that mean I answer questions snappy, or wait 3 seconds after the question so I don't accidentally interrupt??To speak "confident", do I modulate my voice down, or suppress my accent, or pace my syllables regularly? etc. etc. etc.?There are sooooo many variables I have to control by default just to make my presence tolerable to other people.?If I try to control any more, I go crazy.Knee jerk advice is less effort than explaining the how to perform it. They don't explain why because they expect you to figure it out on your own. Most people with Asperger's don't have the same instincts as NT do. Worse, high schools don't offer these skills.Zokk wrote:I have AS, and I'm fully employable. I held the same job for three and a half years, without even once having a customer, a co-worker, or a superior bring a complaint against me. I'd still be working there if I hadn't relocated to a different state. I had both people's respect and friendship where I worked. Sure, it wasn't a great job; it was often rather boring and repetitive and didn't pay particularly well, but I got to work mostly independently, and got to listen to music while I worked, too. Sure, my social skills and executive functioning aren't quite up to par in some areas, but that never stopped me from doing my job to the best of my ability, (which was really all that mattered in the long run) and if I needed clarification on something, I'd ask, and my co-workers or manager would be happy to explain it to me.Then how you got employed so easy??Goonsquad also mentioned about soft skills again, which is also for people with Asperger's a hidden requirement. But there are also hidden requirements for those desperate for a job. You might be able to find a perfect job, but you're practically unqualified for it because of one little soft skill that you don't have.The problem is that employers don't care about smarts, know-how or ability anymore. It's all about "soft skills" and "likeability". In other words, a bunch of pointless social garbage. Did you know that to get a job at SUBWAY now you have to fill out a personality questionnaire? Everyone lies on those, so why do companies bother wasting our time with them!??Not only that, but when you apply online for a major company, most of them won't even have an actual person look at your application. Instead they'll have a computer programscan your resumé for keywords, and if you don't have them, the system will throw out your application.?I've pretty much faced the fact that America is a dying, anti-intellectual hellhole. I just hope I can jump ship before it sinks...Cyanide wrote:The problem is that employers don't care about smarts, know-how or ability anymore. It's all about "soft skills" and "likeability". In other words, a bunch of pointless social garbage. Did you know that to get a job at SUBWAY now you have to fill out a personality questionnaire? Everyone lies on those, so why do companies bother wasting our time with them!?Not only that, but when you apply online for a major company, most of them won't even have an actual person look at your application. Instead they'll have a computer program?scan your resumé for keywords, and if you don't have them, the system will throw out your application.I've pretty much faced the fact that America is a dying, anti-intellectual hellhole. I just hope I can jump ship before it sinks...Case in point: I took a certification test called A+, the basic cert for computer work, in 2006. In 2008 they overhauled the test. No longer would it focus on, you know, COMPUTERS. Instead the main focus would be on SOFT SKILLS! A lot of computer techs were PISSED! In addition, the cert only lasts for three years now, and you have to retake it every three years. CHA-CHING for CompTIA!???I don't need a cert to be a computer repairman, and I sure as hell don't need to be a social butterfly to fix PCs! But if you go into, say, Geek Squad, they only hire GOOD SALESPEOPLE! Their job is to look cool and say "well, we can't fix that, you need to buy a new PC. That'll be $250. Our PC department is over there." I have faced the truth that I won't get admitted to Switzerland before America sinks, so I'm looking at buying some land and raising my own food. I will need to be FAR away from the cities.I've had luck and good fortune get me to job interviews, but the fact is that I don't get past the interviews. I've got a degree and voluntary expereince behind me, the latter of which led to one of the interviews. One of the guys interviewing me was a friend who I had worked alongside in volunteer work, and I still didn't get the job. The fact is I just don't interview well at all; the interview I just came from needed no qualifications, and I still didn't get it.Everything about this post is 100% true. I wanna cry. ;__;?Where's that so called Aspie Island people keep talking about. I want to go there. A place where you're valued for your skills, and not how well you can gossip.The trick, I think, is to just keep looking for work that suits?you, and to just accept that it is going to take longer (a lot longer) than for NT people. Random chance plays a huge part in who gets what jobs when, the best thing to do is just keep trying. Give lady luck as many chances as possible to smile upon you.?I recently got a job as a test driver for an automotive engineering company. It is perfect for me. I am alone for the vast majority of the day. What little interaction there is with my coworkers tends to be centered around cars (my own personal special interest). I am respected for my knowledge on the topic, rather than seen as strange for it.?Even the interview was easy. The HR guy had pictures of his favorite cars all over the office, so I just talked to him about that (one of the few things I can converse about naturally).?But if I had let the hopelessness I was feeling when unemployed take over, stop me from looking, I wouldn't have been there when that perfect for me job opened up.I tend to agree with this thread, though I would acknowledge that not everyone with AS struggles as much to find work...but yes I can had a few more things to the list that make me not very employable.?The more fast paced the work environment the slower I get due to being overwhelmed?I really don't have very good social skills at all?I cannot stand florecent lights unless I want a very bad headache which will in turn effect my ability to get work done.?I am not always very good at pretending to be happy, people mistake that for me trying to be rude or something.?yes it is quite frusterating.Yeah. I have a Master's degree. A professional degree for a profession that I am very good at. A profession that's good for aspies, really. But I can't get work. I can't pass the interview process.?It's like that deal in Imperial China where a person had to write a perfect poem about plum blossoms to qualify for a job as a tax collector. The process for getting work isn't designed to see if you can do the job, it's just to make sure you're the right kind of person, the sort of person the culture wants to allow a dignified living. In Imperial China, that was people from the social-class who read poems about plum blossoms. In contemporary US society, it's social butterflies.?My spouse, who is leaving me, spent some time in the evil, horrible "couple's therapy" (read, spouse and therapist get together and talk about how worthless I am, while I am sitting there) complaining about my chronic joblessness and saying, "I had crap jobs, lots of them, over the years!" and going off about my lazy deadbeat nature that I didn't. Later spouse admitted to having quit those jobs whenever, just out of annoyance. Something I have never done, in any of the few jobs I've managed to get. I pointed this out. Spouse says, "Well, it was the Clinton economy, there were lots of jobs." (Having forgotten, in glorious NT style, that the complaints about my joblessness were all Bush-years.) Me, during that glorious worker's paradise of the Clinton economy, hah! One job I had then, I was a top producer until they started taking clients in to meet the drafting crew (me) and decided that I was an embarrassment. They started harassing me, finding flaws in my work that didn't exist and demanding that I fix errors that weren't there. This being impossible, and making my days hell, I quit. The next job I was also a top producer, but when they downsized and laid people off about seven months after I was hired, I was first to go. I asked why, since I was a top producer and that was on the production records. The supervisor said, "Because you don't make this a fun place to work." I'm pretty sure that means, "Because nobody likes you." One of the lowest producers stayed. She gossiped all day and slowed everybody down by not doing her job, but I guess that made it fun. After that I couldn't get a job mopping out movie theatres. I did some self-employment stuff (read, self-underemployment) and it was seven years before I had another 'real' job. And I quit it to go to grad school because I kept getting injured and people were driving me completely unhinged by touching me without warning, and they wouldn't stop no matter how often I asked, and the pay was crap. I thought I could get work where I could actually earn a living and not get injured and not go crazy, but I'm just stupid to waste money and time trying to better my lot when the culture is determined to starve me out. I just got another two rejections today and I kinda wish I'd killed myself when I felt like killing myself. I don't want to do it now. Then again, it's only a matter of time before I can't afford my (dirt cheap) medications and then I will barely be able to talk to people at all, and I probably will really wish I was dead again, so what the hell.?I hate my ex now. Ex says, "I know what it's like to be a social reject," but it's bull. Ex can quit a job and get another. Ex can have a best friend who finds that status to be mutual. Ex has a job with more earning power than I will ever have. And as much as I would have if anybody would actually hire me for the job my master's qualifies me for. But ex has a HS diploma, one semester of college, and NT social skills.Zokk wrote:I just consider the entire original post to be trolling.rI have AS, and I'm fully employable. I held the same job for three and a half years, without even once having a customer, a co-worker, or a superior bring a complaint against me. I'd still be working there if I hadn't relocated to a different state. I had both people's respect and friendship where I worked. Sure, it wasn't a great job; it was often rather boring and repetitive and didn't pay particularly well, but I got to work mostly independently, and got to listen to music while I worked, too. Sure, my social skills and executive functioning aren't quite up to par in some areas, but that never stopped me from doing my job to the best of my ability, (which was really all that mattered in the long run) and if I needed clarification on something, I'd ask, and my co-workers or manager would be happy to explain it to me.Not all of us have had such positive experiences. Some of us weren't diagnosed until late and instead of enjoying such a supportive environment we had to endure constant aggravation of sensory sensitivities (especially those of us not financially well endowed) that no one cares about, or being yelled at for not writing neat or not saying hello right, etc and so forth.?For many of us his post was probably somewhat accurate.Electric_Kite wrote:Yeah. I have a Master's degree. A professional degree for a profession that I am very good at. A profession that's good for aspies, really. But I can't get work. I can't pass the interview process.It's like that deal in Imperial China where a person had to write a perfect poem about plum blossoms to qualify for a job as a tax collector. The process for getting work isn't designed to see if you can do the job, it's just to make sure you're the right kind of person, the sort of person the culture wants to allow a dignified living. In Imperial China, that was people from the social-class who read poems about plum blossoms. In contemporary US society, it's social butterflies.?My spouse, who is leaving me, spent some time in the evil, horrible "couple's therapy" (read, spouse and therapist get together and talk about how worthless I am, while I am sitting there) complaining about my chronic joblessness and saying, "I had crap jobs, lots of them, over the years!" and going off about my lazy deadbeat nature that I didn't. Later spouse admitted to having quit those jobs whenever, just out of annoyance. Something I have never done, in any of the few jobs I've managed to get. I pointed this out. Spouse says, "Well, it was the Clinton economy, there were lots of jobs." (Having forgotten, in glorious NT style, that the complaints about my joblessness were all Bush-years.) Me, during that glorious worker's paradise of the Clinton economy, hah! One job I had then, I was a top producer until they started taking clients in to meet the drafting crew (me) and decided that I was an embarrassment. They started harassing me, finding flaws in my work that didn't exist and demanding that I fix errors that weren't there. This being impossible, and making my days hell, I quit. The next job I was also a top producer, but when they downsized and laid people off about seven months after I was hired, I was first to go. I asked why, since I was a top producer and that was on the production records. The supervisor said, "Because you don't make this a fun place to work." I'm pretty sure that means, "Because nobody likes you." One of the lowest producers stayed. She gossiped all day and slowed everybody down by not doing her job, but I guess that made it fun. After that I couldn't get a job mopping out movie theatres. I did some self-employment stuff (read, self-underemployment) and it was seven years before I had another 'real' job. And I quit it to go to grad school because I kept getting injured and people were driving me completely unhinged by touching me without warning, and they wouldn't stop no matter how often I asked, and the pay was crap. I thought I could get work where I could actually earn a living and not get injured and not go crazy, but I'm just stupid to waste money and time trying to better my lot when the culture is determined to starve me out. I just got another two rejections today and I kinda wish I'd killed myself when I felt like killing myself. I don't want to do it now. Then again, it's only a matter of time before I can't afford my (dirt cheap) medications and then I will barely be able to talk to people at all, and I probably will really wish I was dead again, so what the hell.I hate my ex now. Ex says, "I know what it's like to be a social reject," but it's bull. Ex can quit a job and get another. Ex can have a best friend who finds that status to be mutual. Ex has a job with more earning power than I will ever have. And as much as I would have if anybody would actually hire me for the job my master's qualifies me for. But ex has a HS diploma, one semester of college, and NT social skills.Don't think like that. If the world hates you hate it back by existing and annoying the s**t out of it. Think of it as a battle. It can be invigorating.oldmantime wrote:Don't think like that. If the world hates you hate it back by existing and annoying the sh** out of it. Think of it as a battle. It can be invigorating.Invigorate. To give life or energy.?What I want is food, shelter, and access to health care. That would be invigorating. Endlessly struggling to get those things and failing and ending up begging them off my mom, that is the opposite of invigorating. I am just exhausted and humiliated.oldmantime wrote:Electric_Kite wrote:oldmantime wrote:Don't think like that. If the world hates you hate it back by existing and annoying the sh** out of it. Think of it as a battle. It can be invigorating.Invigorate. To give life or energy.?What I want is food, shelter, and access to health care. That would be invigorating. Endlessly struggling to get those things and failing and ending up begging them off my mom, that is the opposite of invigorating. I am just exhausted and humiliated.The idea was to turn your destitution into a reward. Look at it how you want though.Well not everyone gets all hyped up about 'rewards' some people just want the basic things in life....I mean sometimes the game just does not seem so fun anymore....the game as in trying to get to the top. Energy could probably be spent on better things.OK, I haven't read the whole thread, but I don't agree with the original post. Not that the issues aren't there - they are - but that the issues in that post, it seems to me, can be worked around with the right assistance. But if you don't believe it is possible, you can't find that bridge. So that disconnect, between belief and reality, needs to be solved, and it isn't something most people can solve on their own.?What can't be worked around are the issues caused by difficulty managing stress, extreme sensory issues, and other common co-morbids. I've seen those hit people on these boards, and then good choices are difficult. So, yes, a certain percentage of Aspies will find that they are not employable.?Still, what I would like to see is a larger group of people willing to work as the bridge, and invest in what it takes, to get those that could be employed, into meaningful employment. This is a missing gap in services for those with AS right now, particularly when it comes to those on the "higher end" of the spectrum who NEED to use their intelligence in their jobs. I see it every time I visit this board, but I don't have the resources or the time right now to do anything about it ... just, I wish someone would.?Does that make any sense?DW, what assistance??I am very clever and highly skilled and just got myself a professional degree in a field that I am very very well suited for. I loved my internship work and, according to my boss-mentor-person there, did an excellent, really impressive job at it.?I got help from family and used all I'd managed to save to try to play the cognitive hand I've been dealt as best I possibly could, and if you judge by my graduate school grades and my internship and volunteer work I made a very smart move.?But I can't get hired, and I asked the Autism Society in my state if they could help me get an official diagnosis so I could get some assistance in finding work and get hiring committees to cut me a break and they said that they could only help me get accommodations after hire, but I don't need that because I tried to get myself into a career where I wouldn't need them, and as far as I know I don't. I just need to get hired. But I can't get hired and there's no assistance for that.?I believed it was possible. And now I'll have to take the kind of job where they just hire anybody and don't care about interviews, and my intelligence and skills won't be used, and the sensory issues and stress problems that I thought I had successfully worked around by choosing a career that didn't set them off?will?be there for those jobs. If I'm lucky I'll come home shaking every day, puke, and fall into bed but be able to hold it together well enough to not get fired and keep the job long enough that I can get another shitty job and not end up blacklisted for having changed jobs every month. If not, well, I can live in my mom's garage. Until I can't any more, and am homeless.?And I'm a f-g genius, I am.Electric_Kite wrote:DW, what assistance??I am very clever and highly skilled and just got myself a professional degree in a field that I am very very well suited for. I loved my internship work and, according to my boss-mentor-person there, did an excellent, really impressive job at it.I got help from family and used all I'd managed to save to try to play the cognitive hand I've been dealt as best I possibly could, and if you judge by my graduate school grades and my internship and volunteer work I made a very smart move.But I can't get hired, and I asked the Autism Society in my state if they could help me get an official diagnosis so I could get some assistance in finding work and get hiring committees to cut me a break and they said that they could only help me get accommodations after hire, but I don't need that because I tried to get myself into a career where I wouldn't need them, and as far as I know I don't. I just need to get hired. But I can't get hired and there's no assistance for that.I believed it was possible. And now I'll have to take the kind of job where they just hire anybody and don't care about interviews, and my intelligence and skills won't be used, and the sensory issues and stress problems that I thought I had successfully worked around by choosing a career that didn't set them off?will?be there for those jobs. If I'm lucky I'll come home shaking every day, puke, and fall into bed but be able to hold it together well enough to not get fired and keep the job long enough that I can get another shitty job and not end up blacklisted for having changed jobs every month. If not, well, I can live in my mom's garage. Until I can't any more, and am homeless.And I'm a f-g genius, I am.That is simular to the path I seem to be on...except I have not graduated from college yet and can already see it coming, I'll get a degree and not be able to find work so what is even the point of pursuing the degree....and it certainly does not seem there is much help availible for that problemYeah.?All I can say is that higher education is fun, and you can put off the nigh-inevitable doing it. But the people who say it'll help you get a good job in the future don't mean you. They mean NTs. You and me are free to choose fields of study with zero professional applications and it probably won't make a scrap of difference. The mindless factory job I'm going to apply for tomorrow or the next day doesn't need my BA or my Master's. And I'll be grateful to have it. If I even get it.Jkid-?Your words are so powerful and amazing. I have been struggling to explain why my social failings and troubles with friendships affects my employability as an adult.?I never could explain it. I have so many skills, I can repair computers, hardware and software. I can repair almost anything on a bicycle, I have built them from the ground up from parts I found in the garbage. I have done 90% of my own auto repair, clutches, headgaskets, ball joints, brakes, pulled engines, etc etc. I can do lots of carpentry stuff, framing, drywall, roofs, replace windows, even some electrical and plumbing. I can polish a piece of granite till it looks like a mirror. I am a good gardener. I am very knowledgeable about natural and herbal remedies. When I put my mind to it, people tell me I am a gifted writer. I could never explain why I had so much trouble with jobs and most people think that if I have all this knowledge and don't hold down a job I must be just lazy or not really trying or whatever.?Getting and keeping a job is very much about being part of the social circle as it is being able to do the work at hand. I almost always fail in the social arena, I usually end up on the bottom of the pecking order or completely excluded altogether.?Thank you so much for this post, I still don't know what to do about this problem, but now I have a much better understanding of it. You are a brilliant person.I read once about a vineyard in Japan which employs people with autism and even provides housing. Don't remember what it was called or where the article was.?If only there was some organization that could help folks bypass the standard interview process...some sort of employment agency that had connections and contacts with HR people and executives at local businesses...that would show/tell them how what the HR folks see as a problem can be a benefit (such as not sitting around gossiping all day leads to increased productivity). A group or program that would make sure folks on the spectrum don't slip through the cracks.Sweetleaf wrote:The more fast paced the work environment the slower I get due to being overwhelmedI really don't have very good social skills at allI cannot stand florecent lights unless I want a very bad headache which will in turn effect my ability to get work done.I am not always very good at pretending to be happy, people mistake that for me trying to be rude or something.yes it is quite frusterating.Yes it is similar for me. I have social problems, and executive functioning problems. I would love to get a menial job but I am not fast enough. :/?I am book smart but I am very unskilled, slow, unfocused, distractible, easily bored, and get overwhelmed by an excess of certain types of sensory data. I wish I could find just one type of industry which I could work in without becoming a nervous wreck eventually.?I also hate working by myself, I get lonely and bored, but i cant work well in a team either, I am either tuned out of the team, or I end up monologuing to the group. God.Well, my workplace held a meeting with all staff just today to warn of impending staff cuts, where four services will be merged into one to cut costs, though specific staff implications are not yet known. However, I have succeeded well in this job and I have been there for over 5 years which is longer than I've held any other job, partly because I have been in a way well supported because the manager has an understanding of AS, even if it can be misplaced. He is in regular contact with a few other Aspies because they attend the same church as him. Without being lucky enough to have this sort of support Aspies are wide open to social and economic Darwinism, much more so in the current horrible climate. So far every time staff reductions have been made where I work I have lost my job, so I sure hope this time will be different. After all it took me 5 months to find this job, and 9 months to find a previous job, and these were not during recession times either.There is some truth in this. Lacking social connections makes it a lot harder. Also the truth is that when you get a job, no matter how hard you work and how good you are at it, if you don't have social connections and friends there, you will be targetted when people are looking for someone to blame for something. They will make an example or a scapegoat of you just because you don't have friends there who will care. It took me a really, really long time to realise this. For many years I thought that ability and hard work was all that mattered in a job. I was very wrong.alessi wrote:There is some truth in this. Lacking social connections makes it a lot harder. Also the truth is that when you get a job, no matter how hard you work and how good you are at it, if you don't have social connections and friends there, you will be targetted when people are looking for someone to blame for something. They will make an example or a scapegoat of you just because you don't have friends there who will care. It took me a really, really long time to realise this. For many years I thought that ability and hard work was all that mattered in a job. I was very wrong.I have encoutered this as well, I was targeted for my disabilities. For being strange, weird, nervous, sick, unable, inable?I'm still fighting for my legal rights,(ADA) almost 3 yrs after wrongfull termination?Not one person involved did their job correctly or legally,...not one!!?StevieC wrote:one thing i suppose you could do is go into a business partnership with someone (possibly an NT)that way, the NT would do more of the accounting/finding customers side of things ("hey, we need to make x amount this month, buy this etc")while you handle the more creative side of things thus playing to ur strengths ... just an idea.It's a very practical idea. While I'm an NT, I come off as quite aloof as well, and if they had "team interviews" when I was working at big companies I wouldn't likely have gotten the jobs I had either. Getting through an interview with just a manager or two is bad enough.?I have a garden design business with a friend who is an extrovert. She does the phoning and the client contact part of the business. I do the accounting and the technical part of the design process. We work together when interviewing clients. I ask the detailed questions to get the info, but mostly my partner handles that work, because she's much better with people.?I have worked with someone with aspies before, as a programmer. Really, there is no reason why someone sitting in a cube can't be left the hell alone to do their job programming. And he was really good at it too. I didn't have any difficulties talking to him about work issues when there was something we working together on. And blessedly, unlike most of the NTs around me, he had as little use for gossip as I did.?I never got a job through social connections, but I also realize how unusual that is. My husband has gotten all of his jobs via people he knows, either as friends or guys he worked with before.Its best to have jobs with clear goals, consistant work in a controlled environment, where productivity can be easily measured (numbers do the talking not you) Also, get something where stuff is in writing, for example log sheets for truck drivers or daily reports. We do good writing clearly.?My current boss in safety department loves how I do the log sheets. I actually fill them out the right way... everyday and actually do a pretrip inspection of my vehicle.?I've worked on assembly lines welding and in factories. Currently I'm an armed guard (bank truck) with a dedicated route, same place everyday.?Aside from 2 supervisors that I'm stuck with 4 out of 5 days, it is going well. I'm trying to get a regular laid back partner that is of equal rank to myself.?Heck, at my normal stop, one of the managers says that I'm TOO organized ! !pezar wrote:Case in point: I took a certification test called A+, the basic cert for computer work, in 2006. In 2008 they overhauled the test. No longer would it focus on, you know, COMPUTERS. Instead the main focus would be on SOFT SKILLS! A lot of computer techs were PISSED! In addition, the cert only lasts for three years now, and you have to retake it every three years. CHA-CHING for CompTIA!???I don't need a cert to be a computer repairman, and I sure as hell don't need to be a social butterfly to fix PCs! But if you go into, say, Geek Squad, they only hire GOOD SALESPEOPLE! Their job is to look cool and say "well, we can't fix that, you need to buy a new PC. That'll be $250. Our PC department is over there." I have faced the truth that I won't get admitted to Switzerland before America sinks, so I'm looking at buying some land and raising my own food. I will need to be FAR away from the cities.Sounds like if you have the skill for it, you might as well start your own computer-repair business, charge less than what the Geek Squad does and voila.?As for the thread OP, it's so accurate, it hurts to remind myself of everything you're told about the importance of college (or even graduating high school) is a BIG FAT LIE. I have screwed up three times are far as failing to socially network when it's critical. First one was university, second was the Walt Disney World College Program, and most recent was the medical coding and billing school. I even made a portfolio for the last one but I had to fake most of it in order to past. I'm tired of having to relearn the basic job hunting skills over and over again and be told the same things that will NEVER make any sense to me.?Also, if you have problems smiling naturally, like I do, you will not even be considered. I was doing an interview for a fast food joint and throughout the interview I was constantly reminding myself to smile and I really thought I was doing more than I ever had before. Then near the end of the interview, the manager teasingly asked "can I get a smile?". I do believe it's the manager's way of asking "you don't smile much, do you?" I was soooo mad, I regret not lashing out at the manager for how hard I was working throughout the interview just to smile only to find out I wasn't smiling at all. Even when I try I can't win.I think that there is a lot in Western workplace (especially office-type) culture that conspires against people on the spectrum. The god-like status of "the team" is one example: if you aren't able to read subtle cues and politics, and react accordingly, the chances are overwhelming that you'll miss out on what's going on, and being oblivious to this "group vibe", you'll become the odd guy out, without even trying. Once that happens...good luck. Notice that this has nothing to do with your competence, and everything to do with your likeability.?Another problem is this modern, cutthroat attitude about what business is and what the economy is. Is it solely about beating everyone else in the game? Or should it be about everyone having the chance to earn a dignified living according to his or her skills and how responsibly they perform their jobs? More and more, it's gone the way of the dog-eat-dog, survive-or-die philosophy. I can't see that making things any better for people on the spectrum who lack the innate ability to get ahead by exploiting the the politics of a workplace.?Another thing that our society could be doing better would be to focus on apprenticeship in all careers. Get new entrants working under an experienced "master". The one-on-one model would definitely work better for people on the spectrum, because the person doing the job coaching would inevitably witness first-hand the strengths of the one being coached, and build a long-term relationship with that person. The way things are now is too unstable, and too uncaring. And many good people end up on the sidelines.?Then again, our society is experiencing a crisis of caring on so many levels. Just look at the value system that screwed up the economy, and ponder that for a bit. You'll see what I mean.endoftheworld in Danbury, Connecticut said:?I have worked in places where people DID love their jobs at least that is how they presented. The job should be tolerable, after all one spends ALOT of time there, but if one is bored to tears and thinking of jumping out the window every day it is NOT worth the $.I LOVED my job, but the working conditions were so abusive that it almost drove me to suicide. ANY other job openings in the same profession were similar. It's not like there are so many careers or training or job openings that people have much of a choice anymore. Seniors are particularly prone to on site "punching bags," since we really have no options.Redhead in Saint Louis, Missouri said:?When I read all these posts, I see how dire the employment situation in America has become. I wonder how much longer a nation that depends so heavily on consumer spending can economically survive with all these people unable to find work.These companies who won't hire, who outsource, and sell their nation down the river are in for a big surprise over the next 10-20 years. We are poor. Who will buy their crap? Certainly will be interesting to see these same companies crash and burn due to their own greed. In the meantime, I'm learning to spend more time living on less of the crap they sell and more time on being happy. Their future doesn't look so bright, however.You know, "we" don't have degrees in business, but "we" can figure out that people who have no disposable income can't buy goods & services. Companies moving jobs away from their consumer base can't figure this out? We all need to deprogram from our deeply engrained consumer CULTure. & pray we can work to pay our bills . . . & maybe figure out that we don't really need all the ever increasing expensive technology either?Ever try to contact careeronestop (maybe different name in other states)? You get an email that has nothing to do w/your question. Makes you wonder what non English speaking country is hooked up to that computer system? Or congratulate the typist who can type an email w/fingers crossed . . . maybe clicking heels of ruby slippers, too? Kinda like those who compose the media articles declaring improved employment in America?Originally Posted by?MongooseHugger?The point overall is, there ISN'T usually a shortage of workers. Indeed, with this influx of foreigners and offshoring and whatnot, there is a SURPLUS. Hence, in MANY cases, the H1B program should be HALTED until such time as there is a need. It was only made to be used in time of a shortage. We DON'T have a shortage right now. The fact that Disney and others are firing our guys here and making them train their foreign replacements only FURTHER underscores that we need some kind of moratorium on H1B visas because it's clear that the LAW is being violated. Whether it is good for business or "competitive" is neither here nor there in that regard. Also, what is the PURPOSE of immigration:A.) To get businesses a bigger supply of labor.B.) To get more foreigners who will, when naturalized, vote for the Democrat Party.C.) So that the corporate lobby can donate to the Republican Party as a thank you for getting them a bigger supply of cheap labor and to offer them more perks with them.?D.) To help improve THIS country and what is best for THIS country.The answer is D. However, it's being used for A, B, and C right now.Well said. I would like to add an E answer also. One out of every ten Indians are Muslim. Since many of the Indians are entry level, a terrorist could slip in who is adept at other things. Here's to hoping that his promised virgins are all ugly.Originally Posted by?shanv3?These reports do not tell the whole story. In order to get into the Apples and Googles and Facebooks, they have to be very very skilled, have masters degrees from top most US universities. And I dont think they are a threat or displace American workers. They are creme of the creme.?The billion dollar IT offshoring companies also do not abuse the program. They expect the H1B s to work here and go back to their location, but usually that doesnt happen.?The abuse mainly occurs at low level companies who mainly engage in staffing and earning out of it. They certainly pay only around 60k-70k and sometimes nothing when in bench..which is illegal. They can dictate and threaten and usually employees oblige in order to remain in status..If they address this slavery, the abuse might come down.For "slavery" to go down, the workers would have to be honest with wage and hour investigators. Many of them lie and say they have never been benched, charged impermissible fees, etc. tougher regulations are required as well as more oversight of H-1B workers and sponsors.Me= Recently retired US Army officer with 25 years of service. 100% VA service connected disability rating that does not prevent me from working. I still want to serve our Nation and our military members as a DOD civil servant.USAJOBS Experience= I started applying for positions on USAJOBS in July 2015. Up to this date, I have applied for?197 positions. The positions are diverse in geographical location as well as level of responsibility. Some are below my qualifications (I have supervised people who have supervised people doing these jobs) and others are similar in terms of level of responsibility to positions I held as a military officer. My referral rate is 63% (it should be higher) and?I have had a total of 2 interviews.Thoughts=?- The system is corrupt. Short of being a friend of a friend of the hiring official, I have no idea how anyone gets hired.?- Occupational Questionnaires read like a task list rather than inviting applicants to identify attributes needed for the position. In some cases, the requirements are so specific that the only person who would qualify is the person doing the job now (or his or her assistant).- Human Resource personnel have no idea of the core competencies or levels of responsibility of common military positions nor the actual requirements of the job. Keep in mind, these HR folks work for the military. This is akin to an HR person in a company not understanding the company's product. This causes the applicant to write the resume for the lowest common denominator- the HR "specialist" and not the hiring authority. So once referred to the hiring authority (who understands the requirements and qualification attributes), the resume looks like it was written by a kindergarten student rather than the professional that they need.- Complete lack of timely HR support for the applicant to answer questions or correct problems with the Occupational Questionnaire itself.- There is a complete and total lack of accountability and seems to be no effort to identify the best candidate for a position. Examples:o Extremely short application windows with unreasonably long consideration periodso Multiple cancellations (after the referral list has been provided) followed by nearly immediate re-advertisement- makes it look like the hiring official's buddy was not referred the first time so they are trying it again.o Positions limited to military spouses and not open to veterans (even though the position includes re-imbursement of moving expenses)?The system is broken and DOD hiring seems to be a old boys or old girls network. It is astounding that a recently retired officer (who was educated and trained at taxpayer expense) has a 1% (soon to be less) interview rate.Things have changed a lot since my father left the Navy and then worked for them as a civilian after WWII. USAJobs may have 30,000 openings at any given time, but get far more applicants, and take as much as 6 months from closing date to hire and start. Perhaps you should try local government to gain experience. We have a veteran's internship program, with 6 month assignments paid well, and a high percentage of them get a permanent job here after the assignment, some in upper management. We have another recruitment for 3-4 coming up in the next few weeks. They are limited to people that were discharged within the last two years, and is meant to help them transition into the civilian work culture, with frequent mentoring, and even assistance with resume writing and interviewing. We often post on AWC JobNet in addition to our own website but I'm sure there are similar more local government jobs sites all over.?AWC JobNet - Search jobsOriginally Posted by?TexasLawyer2000?Precisely. We only have so many people graduating from Stanford and MIT. The global economy generates many more candidates that perform at an adequate level. The U.S. needs to be more competitive with education in general. But until then, it would be a bad choice to not tap into the best talent the world has to offer. That is what made America great.If we increase our competitiveness, the other countries will too. If the Silicon Valley and Seattle job markets are open for every proficient Russian and Indian programmer to compete in, then most Americans in that sector are screwed. Especially those with junior-level skills, such as recent STEM graduates: they have no options.Originally Posted by?davenj08?Kinda. Trump has loaned himself ~$17 million that he could potentially pay back to himself. Against that, his fundraising campaign has raised far more from corporations and individual donors than his individual contribution. But funds aside, I am still struggling to figure the reason he's running for POTUS. Other than him boosting his ego or business empire, I don't really see a reason he would want to go through the pain for the people of this country.You're reading into all the negative attack ads. All of his ideas have not been vocalized by any of the candidates because they only appeal to ideologues. He offers very simple and practical solutions to current problems. If you think he's running this for boosting his business then you are obviously not a business mind.Why would someone spend all this time and energy going around the country and going to debates and rallys for what?He can easily start a new TV show or buy a couple of more properties and flip them for a few hundred millions. Like most rich people say, cheap money is everywhere for the rich to use.The only reason Trump want to run for Prez is for fame and personal glory which imo is a much more honorable goal than other politicians which is for money, power, and then glory.Most people right now would vote for anyone that is an outsider to be Prez because the Feds is full of fat that needs to be trimmed and Obama is very good at growing Fed spending instead of reducing Fed spending.Even if Trump does not get the nomination or Presidency, I think most people are done with establishment candidates. There are many seats in Congress and House that will change this election, many incumbents will be voted out.This country is heading into the wrong direction, it is becoming an Oligarchy. You know from history what the people have done to those governments.Originally Posted by?BigDGeek?They're no more "highly educated" or qualified for these jobs than American graduates of those same universities, yet most STEM graduates from US universities do not go on to work in the field.?I'm fine with them coming in and paying sky-high tuition, but you can't tell me there's anything special about an Indian or Chinese person with a BS in comp sci from UT-Dallas or UCLA that merits an H-1B visa and the filling of a position that could be filled by an American person with the same degree from the same e in, pay, leave.That is not the (proto)typical H1B candidate. If you work for Google and you need someone with 2-3 years development experience in a language that has only been in commercial use for 5 years then your candidate pool is going to be small. If you need 5 years experience in an area that only offshore Google employees might have than that is another use of H1B. Same for academic candidates who are studying some obscure research subject. We want (and need) people with skills like that here in the US.?H1B is NOT for subcontracting portions of your company IT function to an Indian Company (Infosys, TechMahindra, Tata, Deloite, etc.) who brings in Indians with degrees and certifications from Indian schools (many of which are forged) just to lower your cost for a noncore function located in the USA.Originally Posted by?Vacanegro?That is not the (proto)typical H1B candidate. If you work for Google and you need someone with 2-3 years development experience in a language that has only been in commercial use for 5 years then your candidate pool is going to be small. If you need 5 years experience in an area that only offshore Google employees might have than that is another use of H1B. Same for academic candidates who are studying some obscure research subject. We want (and need) people with skills like that here in the US.?H1B is NOT for subcontracting portions of your company IT function to an Indian Company (Infosys, TechMahindra, Tata, Deloite, etc.) who brings in Indians with degrees and certifications from Indian schools (many of which are forged) just to lower your cost for a noncore function located in the USA.I know what H-1B is supposed to be used for and I know what they're actually used for.?The amount of worker visa fraud in this country is staggering. People are totally oblivious.Here's one good example:Universities Hide Workforce of 100,000-plus H-1B EmployeesOriginally Posted by?BigDGeek?We'll have to agree to disagree. I am not convinced we need any foreign workers at all. We already have plenty, and not enough jobs for the people already here. Almost all of the job growth over the last few years has gone to the foreign-born. That is not right.Exactly. Americans have nowhere else to go if foreigners take all the jobs here.?At this rate, it'll be an actual disadvantage to be born a US citizen one day.Originally Posted by?davenj08?Stop all foreign workers? Wow that's a bold statement. Not because it will never ever happen, Trump or whoever becomes the President, but because it somehow implies that US will continue to be the superpower that it is, just by using home grown talent.It's certainly not going to remain a superpower by importing all the talent and letting all the born Americans simply languish.Originally Posted by?augiedogie?I don't particularly like the work world, American business attitudes, the culture it has become, etc. But crying about it isn't going to change anything. People need to think for themselves, look out for themselves, and find a way to survive. Its a cold cruel world that really doesn't care anyhow, so the task at hand is to find a job/career that is in demand and will stay in demand, and then plan a lifestyle that you can afford. The medical field is still a good career choice. A computer can't take care of people in the hosp.But H1Bs can.It is already a huge disadvantage being a US citizen in the US. It's been this way for many decades.The middle income US citizen is now the only species being held accountable on every law the criminal governments/corporations put in place, while they steal our savings, cut off our life line, and burn down our homes.I'm reading all of these threads, along with articles online, LinkedIn, etc. to see the same thing echoed over and over. Americans need to compete in the market to retain their jobs, or face replacement.As an American worker who was laid off and then replaced by foreign workers, and then laid off again (but not replaced, cost-elimination), how can I became more competitive in the market? I'm in IT (surprise).?I haven't seen anything substantial in these threads, or online really, detailing how an American can be more competitive. For instance in IT, when there are foreign workers who have more education than I do, more experience, and willing to take less than 35K, how can?I?become more competitive? Should I, along with thousands of American workers waste their time obtaining more degrees to become worthless pieces of paper? If the problem is experience, how can people get experience if employers won't hire them? Or they keep getting laid off?I'm starting to wonder if I wasted my time and energy getting into IT, but at the end of the day I really enjoy software developing and the problem-solving rigor behind it. I enjoy working with technology and using software to solve complicated problems. But if there's someone else out there who enjoys those same things, but is cheaper, how can I compete? How does anyone else compete? The great irony behind this is an American can move overseas to attempt to retain their job, but those countries don't want Americans. They want?American jobs.We're living in a market where the "global workforce" is the new norm. The problem is how does an American show they're worth more?No clue how a U.S. American can compete against someone in another country who is earning a dollar an hour. You can't compete with that! That is why so many jobs have been outsourced. We also have jobs being insourced because businesses don't want to pay their workers fair wages.You have to live and breath your work. That foreign worker might work 12 hours a day 7 days a week. And on the short off time the worker will be studying the latest technology. These corporations want slaves who will work for little to nothing money wise.Or you can just exit this field and find something that can't yet be done overseas, such being an electrician or plumber.Originally Posted by?davenj08?It has managed to do exactly that over the last 70 years. Think about it.?What we need it tightening the rules so only highly talented and educated individuals are allowed to work on H1B. Debate as much as you want, and protest wherever you wish, skilled immigration is not going to end, not now, not in another 20 years. The only time skilled immigration will decline is when there are other countries that offer better opportunities than US. Which is not anytime soon.For green cards? Sure. H-1B visa people are indentured servants with 6 year contracts. If they mouth off, they're fired and deported. They're paid pennies on the dollar. If you hire someone with a green card, they're the same as any other employee. If you underpay them, they quit and go elsewhere just like any other employee.Originally Posted by?davenj08?It has managed to do exactly that over the last 70 years. Think about it.?What we need it tightening the rules so only highly talented and educated individuals are allowed to work on H1B. Debate as much as you want, and protest wherever you wish, skilled immigration is not going to end, not now, not in another 20 years. The only time skilled immigration will decline is when there are other countries that offer better opportunities than US. Which is not anytime soon.That's kind of cheating then, isn't it? If the foreigners are the ones that are making the US productive, then the US shouldn't take the credit for it, their home countries should.?The focus should be on developing the potential of the US citizens here so that they can be as productive as the foreigners being imported in today. Only then can the US really claim to be a superpower.Let me tell you Temp Agencies are nothing more than GIANT LIARS.?For example, I live near county that the "main town" approx. 50,000 people. every time a new job ad posted in the news papers. under it the news paper list it as "NEW JOB" or "NEW AD" the first day it's published. Now they ran an ad on Sunday (WITH THE NEW AD) it said "50 people needed" Now this Temp agency opened at 8:00 on Monday morning. I was already registered with them. I brought the paper with me to show them. I arrived at the temp agency at 7:45. I WAS THE ONLY ONE IN THE PARKING LOT OTHER THAN WORKERS. I went in at 8:00. I asked them about this nicely. I said "yes , I saw you had this ad in the paper you needed 50 workers. I would like some more information and possibly forward my name about it." The lady said "we already filled all 50 positions." I said "that's impossible. This is listed as a new ad as of Sunday. You guys aren't open on Sunday. I was first through the doors on Monday. " She said "sorry they've been filled."?Another example: I had worked for another temp agency for 2 different jobs for 2 years. I always go back and add up my payroll stubs to make sure they were being honest. Keep in mind I've lived where I am now for 25 years.(at the time was 20 years) I figured the numbers 3 times. They "shorted" me 1 whole paycheck. I called them. They said "yeah we tried to send the paycheck 3 times but you moved." I NEVER MOVED. so I had to pay the state of Ohio 10% of my paycheck to get it out of unclaimed funds. because the idiots COULDN'T CALL ME. wouldn't it make sense if it came back you call the person. EVEN THOUGH I KNOW THEY DIDN'T SEND IT BECAUSE I WAS GETTING MAIL THE ENTIRE TIME THEY CLAIMED TO BE SENDING IT.I don't use Temp Agencies anymore they are nothing but liars. all they do is lie.Temping is basically a form of legalized slavery.You're not paid what your position is worth, most of the time no benefits, no PTO, no vacation. You can be fired at any time for any or no reason.If on the small chance you are hired permanently, your employer must first buy your contract out from the agency. In some cases this is a percentage of your annual salary. So you can see why there are many agencies vying on indeed and elsewhere for all this fresh meat.Temp agencies benefit everyone but the temp. The agency gets a portion of your salary as a slave owner's fee in addition to a payday should you be bought...I mean hired by the employer.The employer saves a ton of money not having to pay you in full, and not having to give you benefits.You get a job. If you're lucky in your field. But at times I've had to take anything that was available, which is a great way to destroy your resume. "Warehouse worker" and "Assembler" doesn't look too great on a resume when you're applying for something a lot less blue collar. And guess what jobs the agency will start putting you in from that point on? You wanna eat or not?Temp agencies come off all smiles and in a genial way. In reality they are businesses that prey on desperation.If you can avoid them, do it. If not, do your best to get away from them as quickly as possible.I applied to a job posting by?Creative?Circle in New York. They immediately emailed me, said that they wanted to represent me, and had me come in to fill out the necessary paperwork. Everyone was very kind and had great hopes for me. Well... a couple of months have passed in which I have responded to several of their email blasts. Several of the positions, I felt, were perfect matches to my skill set. Unfortunately, though, I have not received one response or callback.Obviously, this has been very daunting and my initial thoughts were that perhaps my skills or talents were lacking but I find this hard to believe (not to be egotistical) but I have produced many successful campaigns and have glowing references. So I did a?google?search to see if anyone else had this same sort of experience with Creative Circle. The answer is a resounding yes. (I am going to ignore the overly effervescent 5-star reviews with mentions of specific recruiters - these feel like "plants", especially the ones on Yelp which is known to plant glowing reviews for a fee).Anyway, I realize that some have had luck with them but many have come upon the same wall as me. My question is this: Are there perhaps other criteria that CC uses to determine whether you get placed or not that they are not telling you about? Is age a factor? Is too much experience a hinderance? Do they check medical records and finding that you smoke, they choose not to place you forinsurance?reasons? Do they prefer recent grads? Is it a friends and family plan? Do I need to become personal friends with a recruiter to get placed? Do the recruiters get paid by how many freelancers they sign up regardless of how many jobs are available and therefore a situation is created where workers outnumber jobs by many-fold?I don't know. It seems that there are many stories like mine which leads me to believe that there are other forces at work in their decision making process.What do you guys think?I'm a junior?designer?that is hoping to use?creative?circle. I have a hunch that creative circle is a joke. I just responded to a few of their listings. I'll let you know what I find out.Also, I really enjoyed your third paragraph. It was executed amazingly. And it made my day.Good luck with your search.They're terrible! They've had my resume for months now and have never called me even though i've seen and responded to several positions that I was VERY qualified for. Most recently, I went through the trouble of breaking down the job description line for line with a response of why I'm qualified... Answering item for item from their job description to my experience and still can't get a call from them. All I get is the bounce back automated email and the same BS from their snooty receptionist when I try to follow up on something I've replied to.They have reposted jobs that had a start date TWO WEEKS PRIOR to the date when they reposted rather than call me when it required skills I have 11 years of experience with, to the letter, word for word. But according to the person who answers their phones if I was qualified a recruiter would've contacted me. Yeah right. Either they didn't even see my resume or the job doesn't exist. Why would they continuously repost it rather than giving someone with my experience a call?I have no doubt that they post fake jobs and spam the job boards to collect information and fatten their applicant pool to make themselves look better to companies they can potentially recruit for. Many agencies do this and?Creative?Circle reeks of it.They suck, they're rude and extremely unprofessional.CREATIVE?CIRCLE IS THE WORST PLACEMENT AGENCY THERE IS -- AND THEY WILL TRY TO DAMAGE YOUR CAREER LONG TERM IF YOU ARE NOT CAREFUL.BE WARNED!They have reposted jobs that had a start date TWO WEEKS PRIOR to the date when they reposted rather than call me when it required skills I have 11 years of experience with, to the letter, word for word. But according to the person who answers their phones if I was qualified a recruiter would've contacted me. Yeah right. Either they didn't even see my resume or the job doesn't exist. Why would they continuously repost it rather than giving someone with my experience a call?I have no doubt that they post fake jobs and spam the job boards to collect information and fatten their applicant pool to make themselves look better to companies they can potentially recruit for. Many agencies do this and Creative Circle reeks of it.They suck, they're rude and extremely unprofessional.I have heard the same complaints about?Creative?Circle. Having responded to well over 30 of their emails, I can say I have never NEVER received so much as a call back or email from them. Not even one. A lot of my friends believe that they tend to respond only to new or junior level employees with a only a few years of experience.I am a senior level worker (15 years experience) and I certainly wonder why they bother to email me in the first place. Ditto the feeling for many of my contemporary friends.Neil V in Austin, Texas said:?I have heard the same complaints aboutCreative?Circle. Having responded to well over 30 of their emails, I can say I have never NEVER received so much as a call back or email from them. Not even one. A lot of my friends believe that they tend to respond only to new or junior level employees with a only a few years of experience.I am a senior level worker (15 years experience) and I certainly wonder why they bother to email me in the first place. Ditto the feeling for many of my contemporary friends.I am a junior level?designer?with only 1-2 years of experience. got connected with CC last year and HAVE NOT RECEIVED SQUAT. They are now sending me automated e-mails that state, " due to the overwhelming number of replies we may not be able to reply. If you are qualified for this position a recruiter will contact you"....B U L L S H I T!!! The scary thing is that they have all of my information and a copy one state ID. So, Neil of Austin it is not due your overwhelming years of experience, but instead due to them reaching their quota of responses for the quarter and not caring at all!WATCH OUT. They are the slimiest of all staffing agencies.They pay HALF the going rate for work that you could get on your own. So, if the market pays $85 an hour for an?Art Director?position, they post jobs for $40 an hour.This lowers the rate for everyone. It turns the work we do into?assembly?line,?fast food?rate work. I have seen them post jobs for senior designers for less than $20 an hour. The going rate for that is $60 an hour in my market.I had one experience with them - I signed up for their office, interviewed, and never heard a thing, despite multiple attempts to reach out to them. However, they took it upon themselves to send out my resume WITHOUT TELLING ME. When I finally got acontract?(on my own, with no help from them) and they heard, they threatened to sue the agency claiming that they had represented me as a client. However, their threats were shot down by the?legaldepartment, as they had just randomly sent in my resume to anintern?in the?accounting?department just to get it in. I was, at the time, an?Art?Director.Seriously, if this doesn't scare you away from them, it should. They have no ethics, no quality. They are the epitome of soulless corporate staffing agencies.It's interesting. I recently saw a job for a?CREATIVE DIRECTORposted at $35 an hour. In the real world of?advertising?and?design, freelance?Creative?Directors are paid $125 an hour. And up.I realize that whenever you go through a staffing agency there is a cut; they typically take about 30% - 40%. But it is outrageous to think that a reputable, talented and experienced Creative?Directorwould ever consider that rate.But! All rate aside, they have a tainted reputation in the industry. I noticed someone just posted a GLOWING review for them on the NYC forum -- it read like a post that was written by someone who works for them.Be careful out there. I understand why many folks grow weary of finding and?billing?their own clients when what we really want to do is focus on our creative work. But the staffing industry (like any other) can be fraught with disreputable scoundrels. I think that there are plenty of staffing agents who want to work with creatives and appreciate our talent....do your research.I accidentally wandered into this discussion from elsewhere, and couldn't resist a reply...The last time I worked with CS (NYC) was about two years ago, so I don't know if they've changed. I get the impression this is a place where training recruiters try to get some experience, not unlikefilm/tv editors who start out at Atlas Media. :)If you think of CS primarily as a payroll company that collects information, it makes sense. I've spoken to some on the client end who only know CS a resource for both payroll and talent, and they have no idea otherwise how the place works. After I tell them, they reply, "but they sent you!" After I absorb the love, I confirm that yes there are some very talented people in their?database?who also didn't know any better.The email blasts were really irritating, because I too was never contacted about seemingly *perfect* positions that mirrored my experience. I saw repeat posts as well, and came to the conclusion they were simply bait & switch posts to determine who was currently available by the replies received that week. Eventually they called one day for a last-minute gig beginning later in the day, so I shrugged and thought "why not?" Hourly rate was on the low side, but I ended up getting along really well with the people and switched to one of their other branches for a BIG raise after my CS freelancecontract?was fulfilled. Any success was of my own doing; my personality and skills carried me well beyond the original listed two week duration.CS is in no way a recruiter if you're looking for someone to represent you. The idea of a payroll with job notices can be OK if you know it's an arbitrary crapshoot, but they take far too much of a cut for the amount of "work" they do, not to mention any possibility of the candidate to check in on a gig's status. And good lord, don't even think of giving them precious professional references!HENRY in Norwood, New Jersey said:?CREATIVE?CIRCLE IS THE WORST PLACEMENT AGENCY THERE IS -- AND THEY WILL TRY TO DAMAGE YOUR CAREER LONG TERM IF YOU ARE NOT CAREFUL.BE WARNED!They have reposted jobs that had a start date TWO WEEKS PRIOR to the date when they reposted rather than call me when it required skills I have 11 years of experience with, to the letter, word for word. But according to the person who answers their phones if I was qualified a recruiter would've contacted me. Yeah right. Either they didn't even see my resume or the job doesn't exist. Why would they continuously repost it rather than giving someone with my experience a call?I have no doubt that they post fake jobs and spam the job boards to collect information and fatten their applicant pool to make themselves look better to companies they can potentially recruit for. Many agencies do this and Creative Circle reeks of it.They suck, they're rude and extremely unprofessional.I have had the same experience! Answered countless ads with well crafted cover letters to jobs I am so well suited and NEVER get ONE response. Someone needs to get a class action suit going against them for?fraud. Not to mention how they now have all our personal info on file.Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S. - IEEE SpectrumOf course, the establishment controlled media did not post this on front page news. IBM is cutting 1/3 of 70,000 US jobs. Total IBM employees were 378,000 globally. IBM's biggest business right now is outsourcing. It's mission accomplished for many American workers has they handed their jobs over to cheaper laborers.?Worth noting is that before the layoff announce, IBM changed their severance policy from a maximum of 6 month to just 1 month.This mass layoff makes the Disney and Toys R Us one look like peanuts.Originally Posted by?vision33r?Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S. - IEEE SpectrumOf course, the establishment controlled media did not post this on front page news. IBM is cutting 1/3 of 70,000 US jobs. Total IBM employees were 378,000 globally. IBM's biggest business right now is outsourcing. It's mission accomplished for many American workers has they handed their jobs over to cheaper laborers.?Worth noting is that before the layoff announce,?IBM changed their severance policy from a maximum of 6 month to just 1 month.This mass layoff makes the Disney and Toys R Us one look like peanuts.Wow. They certainly screwed their employees with this. Glad I didn't go work for them when I had the opportunity.We'll just have to start boycotting companies. That was really effective back in the day. I can remember boycotting grapes in CA because of the way migrant workers were being treated, Coors beer because of their anti-gay policies, etc. Boycotting is effective.Originally Posted by?NoMoreSnowForMe?We'll just have to start boycotting companies. That was really effective back in the day. I can remember boycotting grapes in CA because of the way migrant workers were being treated, Coors beer because of their anti-gay policies, etc. Boycotting is effective.Disney is pretty easy to boycott but IBM less so as they sell to businesses and not consumers. Outsourcing hurt Dell Computer a lot due to their outsourcing the call center. They brought it back to the USA, but some say the damage was done and some customers never returned.Couple of my friends were affected in thisFor an ex-IBMer, the layoffs started (and never stopped) years ago...they have been steadily laying people off every yearOriginally Posted by?Hobo7396?Disney is pretty easy to boycott but IBM less so as they sell to businesses and not consumers. Outsourcing hurt Dell Computer a lot due to their outsourcing the call center. They brought it back to the USA, but some say the damage was done and some customers never returned.Good points.?I make choices based on a company's call center. If I can't understand their customer service reps, or they aren't really helpful, I go somewhere else, if there's a better choice.Lots of layoffs all the time. Nothing new. Just a different company. Nothing to worry about thankfully. The "recovery" has created plenty of unproductive, low wage "service sector economy" jobs. Nothing to see here. Just the death of the American way, to be replaced by total government dependence, from cradle to grave. Enjoy!If you call IBM technical support, you get a person from India.IBM outsources many of their jobs as it is, but this is even worse..If you think the US economy is doing well, you are delusional!Originally Posted by?andywire?Lots of layoffs all the time. Nothing new. Just a different company. Nothing to worry about thankfully. The "recovery" has created plenty of unproductive, low wage "service sector economy" jobs. Nothing to see here. Just the death of the American way, to be replaced by total government dependence, from cradle to grave. Enjoy!Unfortunately, the american people continue to keep the blinders over the eyes as this crap only continues to get worse.How long before every one of them gets outsourced for a quarter of the pay that Americans make in them and we will have a millions of unemployed College graduates with STEM degrees entering the workforce or working temp or stuck in some job totally unrelated to anything STEM related.I handled all kinds of engineering degrees, no problem, I enjoyed engineering studies and biomedical engineering work (not technician) as well as pure electrical engineering work. At one time I worked in a huge manufacturing/research plant with 25,000 engineers and technicians. They helped setup plants in Malaysia and Brazil, then they shut the plant down in US all but a few hundred paper pushers. It is the way the big companies do it, even some small and midsized. All they want in US is money, somebody to draw things, and some people to do paperwork. The rest is done overseas now for the most part. There is a small amount of real work remaining, but much harder to find in science and engineering, some in CA, some in defense, some in consumer discretionary stuff (boats for the rich). Some real work remains, not in those areas I just mention but really not all that much. Still I would study science and engineering again if it were me because I enjoy that, but I am essentially retirement age so factor that in.?My discussion is not about apps, or webpage, or big data here because those are growing. Although I know people who make apps and they make no money on them so not sure why apps are exploding when most make nothing but that is an aside discussion as what I am talking about is the real R&D, engineering, manufacturing, production, etc.Will it come back? There are some signs that doing things in the US does make sense, many companies burned and sent into ground by being cheap on scientists and engineers in US. It is going to take time to turn around, we will see if it comes back or not. Find a way to survive I will tell you it is hard in STEM.Originally Posted by?DorianRo?How long before every one of them gets outsourced for a quarter of the pay that Americans make in them and we will have a millions of unemployed College graduates with STEM degrees entering the workforce or working temp or stuck in some job totally unrelated to anything STEM related.I have a BS in chemistry and I work as an Analytical chemist for a medium sized pharmacetuicals company in West Virginia. The salary is reasonable and the benefits are great. Health insurance only costs me $32 per month and the company matches every dollar I contribute to 401k.However, most jobs out there for chemistry graduates especially at the BS level are poor quality. Most of the jobs are on contract and pay $15-20 per hour with no benefits. These types of jobs are usually grunt work and most likely won't ever lead to anything better.Last year I was working as an associate chemist on contract for $17 bucks per hour for a large paper company in Atlanta (Georgia-Pacific) and this company would drag their temps out for years with no raises or benefits. after 6 months of that I had enough and did a nationwide job search and I landed my current job a few months ago and so far it's not too bad.As for the outlook for STEM, honestly i can't think of too many non-STEM careers that are any better. There is Teaching/Education which has great benefits but the pay is not that great. Starting salaries for entry level teachers start out at $35-40k in normal cost of living areas and $50-60k in high cost of living areas; however, I heard new teachers in Austin, Dallas, and Houston start out at $50k and top out at $90k a year and those areas have average cost of living. So if you want to be a teacher move to Texas.Accounting use to be a hot field but I heard a lot of entry level accountants are struggling to find jobs that pay decent money and provides full benefits. Most accountant positions use to start out at $60k a year but now I heard most accounting firms are starting entry level staff accountants out at $40-45k a year and that's if you are lucky enough to find a job. The big 4 firms probably start out at $50-60k but those jobs have intense competition and if you didn't go to a top accounting school and graduate with a 4.0 it's going to be very hard to get into the big 4. Accounting field and pretty much any business profession is saturated now.Nursing may be the only non-STEM field that has potential to make very good money and have no issues finding a full time job after you pass your nursing board exam.I will agree with you. Pretty soon all STEM fields will become over saturated because everybody is enrolling into engineering, computer science, and IT programs. Very soon those professions will be saturated and the salaries for those jobs will fall. Science jobs (chemistry and Biology) been shown signs of saturation due to the increased amount of temp jobs and no benefits at the BS/MS level and low paying post docs at the PHD level. Full time chemist/biologist/scientists jobs with decent salaries are very hard to come by and most cases you going have to move cross country if you do land a full time science position.I've done OK in IT - probably better than most of the people that majored in economics and graduated when and where I did.I think some aspects, at least of IT, are soon to be dinosaurs, like desktop support and many infrastructure roles.Originally Posted by?DorianRo?Unfortunately, the american people continue to keep the blinders over the eyes as this crap only continues to get worse.But that is the wrong belief. It's highly unlikely that the majority of Americans don't know this is happening. They read about it all the time, It's on the news, it's talked about all the time, they may even know someone who has been impacted by this. So, they know.What people need to understand is that it's not a lack of knowledge about what is going on, its a lack of caring.?Americans Don't Care!?We don't care if you loose you job to outsourcing, off shoring, H1B visas, or illegals. So long as I have my job, what do I care if your starving, getting evicted or the kids are sick? The harsh reality is american workers tried with the Take Back movement and nobody cared. Give it up, unless you own your own business or high enough on the food chain, your just a minnow waiting to be eaten by another and nobody cares.Well there it is. As a person who is very familiar with that company, I can only wish the employees well. Over a long period of time IBM has been slowly and deliberately ruined. I have never been able to fathom why this was happening or being allowed to happen. It makes no sense at all but I'm told some things don't have to make sense -- they just do what they do.Don't "compete". The best thing ANY American do is find an activity that provides an income without being an employee. Get over the idea you are required to serve an organization or "boss" and do it on your own.Originally Posted by?Vision67?Ross Perot warned about this in 1992. He was correct? are completely correct. however in the USA we blame the worker who lost their job instead of the government and employer who created this situation and continue to support it.We have sold out 90% of the population.We have no social safety net worth speaking of.We have limited healthcare.we have highly costly education creating a roadblock.But worst of all, worst of all, WE BLAME the victims. We blame them and tell them to "git gud".?The lack of empathy for our fellow Americans is undoing 200 years of hard work.Your children, My children face a future where the vast majority well be much worse off than their parents.Originally Posted by?80skeys?People just don't want to listen. Me and others who actually work in the industry, have said many times on this thread, that H1B workers are NOT paid pennies on the dollar. They make exactly the same wage as their counterparts. Please listen and pay attention.As someone who negotiates contracts for IT Labor, I can tell you that isn't entirely accurate. Companies will outsource to firms like TCS, because the hourly rate for these onshore or offshore workers is less than they are paying FTE's. Otherwise they wouldn't do it, given the potential risks of IP loss/data privacy, etc. Now, these outsourcing firms have to make a profit, so you can bet that salaries they are paying their own employees are less than you'd find with many of the client's own FTEs.Originally Posted by?vision33r?IBM used to be the biggest name in tech. It was today's Apple of the 80s. Today they are nothing but an outsourcing servicing company. They're no longer relevant to today's tech world. They hire Americans to train and manage all those Indians they brought in through Work visas and many remote workers in India and Philippines. The use special relationships with IT management at various companies to get no bid contracts. Pretty much like the mafia.This could be said about many, possibly most US corporations. They simply outsource the actual work to the lowest bidder. Shareholders are the primary benefactors, followed by customers.This is why we have an entire generation of people who know how to do nothing. Because there is nothing for them to do. All the work has been outsourced elsewhere, usually out of the country.Originally Posted by?MikeBear?How can an American IT guy compete against an Indian that gets paid the equivalent of?$6,000?US?a year?for what the bosses / higher ups think is the?same quality?of work?I'm about to lose my job of nearly 28 years because of that, and by the time my company figures it out, and goes back to American IT, it'll be too late for me and many others.Maybe they don't think its the same quality, but don't care anyway. Perhaps they don't believe they need the best, but just good enough??Also, another thing I've noticed (having lived in the valley for years) is that the IT industry has turned into the Indian mafia. Someone will hire one into a leadership position and they'll only take care of others from their caste. Blatant discrimination/bigotry, but nobody seems to care. If this were a white person doing this to other races/sexes, the media would be all over it, but if its done by Indians, it is a non-story.I did lots of contract jobs in electrical engineering and saw that stuff about skill sets used to layoff people. One place I did a job they had a brilliant engineer, won them jobs and great design engineer that I did lots of work with. But they laid him off and hired a 20+ kid saying his skill set was off and the kid had a better skill set. It was purely money, had nothing to do with skills as he was their best engineer just the management didn't know what was what in engineering. The kid they hired spent years just redesigning same things over and over, never won a job for them or anything. In hindsight if they had looked they made a huge mistake, but by time it was for any hindsight the managers were running off with some bonus to new companies.?This is the other big problem in US, the management is real bad in STEM work. I am not exactly sure where the issues all lie, but management in STEM is a huge issue.Originally Posted by?TestEngr?This is the other big problem in US,?the management is real bad in STEM work.?I am not exactly sure where the issues all lie,?but management in STEM is a huge issue.This. Been in the field for 35 years. When I started most of the managers were folks who had grown up in the field and earned their management positions through battle scars and demonstrated experience. Now most of our managers have zero experience in STEM and little in management. Seems to be earn a management degree, graduate right into management, and up the ladder far too quickly to have a clue. The level of ignorance in management is appalling.I've seen this as well. A bunch of empty suit MBA's who have no real knowledge of STEM nor respect for the intelligence of the workers in it treating the workers like crap, giving insulting offers, involving temp agencies, and then crying fake shortage when nobody wants to work for them.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?I've seen this as well. A bunch of empty suit MBA's who have no real knowledge of STEM nor respect for the intelligence of the workers in it treating the workers like crap, giving insulting offers, involving temp agencies, and then crying fake shortage when nobody wants to work for them.Bingo.Originally Posted by?jayolm?I hope these laid off employees can find jobs. This is an unfortunate, but necessary occurrence living in a capitalist country. IBM employees should have jumped ship years ago, if they knew their industry well enough. Anyone who doesn't pay attention to what's happening in their industry, and specifically where your company falls within the industry, can unfortunately suffer things like this. We all have to keep our ears to the ground at all times, no matter what industry we work in. My heart goes out to all the IBM employees.There are plenty of jobs being created in call centers and Fast food joints today for minimum wage or temp agencies with no benefits. Welcome to the service sector Obama Industry. The economy is rolling.Illegal immigration is a hot topic. Illegals are driving down wages and displacing U.S. workers. I don't blame the people, I blame the greedy corporate U.S. business owners. At the same time, jobs continue to be outsourced, and the ones that are left are filled by H1B visa workers. I am 35 yrs old, college grad and I find it increasingly harder to find a decent paying job (the bar is set pretty low at $40K right now). When I graduated college in 1993, you could quit a job today and find another job within 2 weeks. I'd be scared to death to quit my job now (and i hate it) because I know it would be months before i could find another. I'm getting frustrated and confused. I don't want to waste my time getting a higher degree because as it is, at my job, there are tons of people with Masters degree's all working for the same pay as workers with a B.A. I am realizing that education is not valued that much anymore. Now it's about having a skill. So i'm thinking about going to nursing school. But i hear so many nightmare stories about nursing in general, and including them also soon to be replaced by foreign workers. I don't want to waste my time for the next few yrs to go to school only to graduate to end up making just barely more than what i'm making now. Nurses are making good money these days, but I feel like hospitals can't afford to keep paying those high salaries and they will figure out a way to bring the salaries down.?Is it just me feeling this way? Is anybody else struggling trying to find a job that pays a livable wage? If possible, please state where you currently live. I'm wondering if these issues are local or affecting the U.S. in general.I hear you. I am a master electrician. hard to even find a job making over $40k. I am currently taking steps to go on my own. I was looking at colleges for engineering and after doing some research it just is not worth it. I figured it would cost me $80k - $100k and about 4 years not working and still make the same as I make now once I graduate. and with the cost of housing I do not understand how some people get by. I get no financial aid even though I just got a lay off. I am told I am have to much money in the bank and I am a white male with no kids. I am also told I have not worked enough to collect unemployment sense my last lay off last year.?Good Luck.God dammed greedy corporations are screwing middle class and poor Americans while getting a nice helping hand the god dammed government with corporate welfare, a practically open border for illegal labor source and foreign outsourcing firms shipping jobs to India while bringing foreign computer programmers and engineers here to do whatever jobs are left. It's easy to see why though. Politicians need campaign money. Ordinary folks don't have much to give. Corporations, on the other hand, can give plenty. So do you represent if you were a politician? You represent the guys who give you the most campaign contributions. But it doesn't stop there. Who do you think pay for the politicians' outrageous book deals and speaking engagements when they retire from politics? You guess right -- the same greedy corporations that hire foreigners instead of Americans and fight for an open border for cheap illegal labors. It's a you scratch my back and scratch your back kind of deal. Meanwhile, Americans lose theirs job, house and the ability to take care of their family. It's disgusting what they doing to Americans. It's sad. I tell you it's sad.Originally Posted by?NYLATINQT?Illegal immigration is a hot topic. Illegals are driving down wages and displacing U.S. workers. I don't blame the people, I blame the greedy corporate U.S. business owners. At the same time, jobs continue to be outsourced, and the ones that are left are filled by H1B visa workers. I am 35 yrs old, college grad and I find it increasingly harder to find a decent paying job (the bar is set pretty low at $40K right now). When I graduated college in 1993, you could quit a job today and find another job within 2 weeks. I'd be scared to death to quit my job now (and i hate it) because I know it would be months before i could find another. I'm getting frustrated and confused. I don't want to waste my time getting a higher degree because as it is, at my job, there are tons of people with Masters degree's all working for the same pay as workers with a B.A. I am realizing that education is not valued that much anymore. Now it's about having a skill. So i'm thinking about going to nursing school. But i hear so many nightmare stories about nursing in general, and including them also soon to be replaced by foreign workers. I don't want to waste my time for the next few yrs to go to school only to graduate to end up making just barely more than what i'm making now. Nurses are making good money these days, but I feel like hospitals can't afford to keep paying those high salaries and they will figure out a way to bring the salaries down.?Is it just me feeling this way? Is anybody else struggling trying to find a job that pays a livable wage? If possible, please state where you currently live. I'm wondering if these issues are local or affecting the U.S. in general.It's already happening in nursing too. Hospitals and agencies are bringing in tons of nurses from the Phillipines and other countries. BUT, they have to be licensed to practice and be able to pass the boards. Many come over and work as aides till they can be licensed.Yes, it's happening everywhere. Hey, I heard the other day that 1/2 the OTR Truckers were Cisco or Microsoft Certified. Wonder if that's true?If I had it to do over again, I would be a plumber or an electrician. Hard to outsource that and there's always a lot of demand. How much you make depends on how hard you want to work and that's fair. You can work for someone else or for panies are always going to do what's best for them and their stockholders. They don't now, nor have they ever, cared about their workers. Profits are the only thing they hold dear.Originally Posted by?yellowsnow?It's already happening in nursing too. Hospitals and agencies are bringing in tons of nurses from the Phillipines and other countries. BUT, they have to be licensed to practice and be able to pass the boards. Many come over and work as aides till they can be licensed.Yes, it's happening everywhere. Hey, I heard the other day that 1/2 the OTR Truckers were Cisco or Microsoft Certified. Wonder if that's true?If I had it to do over again, I would be a plumber or an electrician. Hard to outsource that and there's always a lot of demand. How much you make depends on how hard you want to work and that's fair. You can work for someone else or for panies are always going to do what's best for them and their stockholders. They don't now, nor have they ever, cared about their workers. Profits are the only thing they hold dear.Well the truckers are getting pushed out of business too because they are now being replaced by Mexican truck drivers due to the NAFTA superhighway deal. I know a couple of people that drive trucks (one black, one white) and they say they can't compete with the lower pay the Mexican drivers work for.Just cause they advertise for those jobs, doesn't mean they hire Americans to fill those positions. I do not trust tech companies - as DH is an employee of a large one, we have witnessed much "gray area" business in them.?They reclassify the requirements for positions, so the people that are currently doing them in a successful manner, could not get their positions if they were interviewed today."Some of the foreign contractors aren't very competent, and that gets costly.""Some contractors will sit on a project and milk it.""When there is a communication barrier with customers, they take their business elsewhere"None of this means jack squat - all companies are outsourcing, so one is as bad as the other. Bottom line $$ is all that matters, and the bean counters are always going to save their bu**s first, so the way they save themselves is to cut the bottom line As they are all slaves to the almight stock flippers. The easiest way is by laying off workforce (then they offshore to a foreign company), they will cut to the bone. They will never admit that their offshoring recommendation isn't working.There has been a large drop in IT jobs over the past several years. Many of these jobs are being off-shored. Also, there is another issue with IT work, based on its very nature that technologies change rapidly. Most jobs are usually offered for the 'technologies du jour'... and want 3-5 years experience in whatever that technology is. So, if you're in your 40s and you've worked with many computer languages, different systems, and hardware over the years... when you go for your next job, only your last 3-5 years at the most current technology might be considered of value by your prospective employer. Consequently, if the next person being interviewed is in their 20s and has 3-5 years experience in that technology and they haven't worked with any of the older technologies (which aren't needed anyway), guess who's going to get the job? The one who will take the salary of someone in their mid-20s.There are senior IT positions out there, but they are much harder to find. As a result, once many IT people get around a certain age, they often go back for an MBA or try to switch over into project management...I understand mrsengle: "outsourcing was because they couldn't find anyone locally" that is fine. They do it here in Chicagoland, there is NO WAY there is a shortage of anybody to do any IT job here as the area is so large. They still offshore... makes me angry.The best thing for this country is for the politicians to not cater to the large corps anymore as it is not necessarily in the best interest of the country anymore if they do not even hire american citizens. And govt. should offer more incentives for people to open their own businesses and offer good insurance plans to small business owners to get their employees enrolled in. This will help them retain good loyal employees.I personally liked working for a small business better because you can do more varied stuff. Working for an uber-corporation had good benefits and more advancement possibilities, but some of the tricks I saw going on were really scary. Stuff that you didn't know was legal but you knew they were using a govt. loophole.I am convinced that small flexible business ownership is the salvation of the country.I spent 3 years of college doing technical support. When I left, I tried to get a desktop support position. I got a lot of interviews, and 1 job offer that was withdrawn (I don't know why). After a string of administrative temp jobs, I got 2 jobs: at a coffee shop and a delivery serivce. I didn't know it at the time, but I'd been burned by outsourcing. Phone support was moving offshore.?I decided to finish my English degree and become a tech writer. I graduated around the time that outsourcing really took off. I joined the STC, a tech-writing profesional organization. The Boston chapter is one of the biggest in the country, and at least half of its members were unemployed. When I went to networking meetings, I was often the only person at my table with a job. I graduated, and intense job hunting took me nowhere. I was stuck at the delivery service.?In the meantime, the delivery service outsourced most of the order taking to Canada. After 3 or 4 diferent call centers, the company settled on one on Montreal. From the llittle I know of Quebec, the few jobs available to monolingual Anglophones are bartending, teaching, and call center. We kept getting operators with language problems. Basically, the call center we use employs people who either don't speak French or English, or Francophones who can't find other jobs. They don't know the streets or the buildings. Yet, as bad as they are, they're cheaper than Americans (even with the present exchange rate), and they have health insurance.Frankly, I'd rather deal with Canadians than Indians. I have nothing against people from India, but I have a hard time understanding them,and they have a hard time understanding me. Half of the people who call me at work ask me where I am.?I'm sick of being broke. I'm now in nursing school, partly because nursing can't be outsourced. I'm graduating in May. Hopefully, the 3rd time will be the charm.hen I have a kid, they're going to trade school. If they have a burning desire to study history or literature, they can do it in their spare time.Originally Posted by?mrsengle?I spent several months doing some research on this last year when my husband was looking for a job, and frankly I don't understand how the 'qualified engineers, IT professionals, and other professionals will never have the opportunity to work in the professions for which they have been trained' argument holds much water. There are TONS of jobs out there in these professions.?People have commented about MS handing out H-1B visas like candy, but has anyone looked at their employment opportunities? They have positions from new graduates on up -?plenty?of them. My husband was offered a contract job there - including a sign-on bonus and moving expenses re-imbursed. He decided he didn't want to work there, as he found a job in town and we didn't want to deal with the hassle of selling the house and moving. Still, gotta give MS some props for throwing some pretty nice incentives to get an American worker over there.?During my research, I noticed that during the summer/fall months the jobs weren't as plentiful for senior level engineers, but entry and junior level positions weren't lacking. Starting in January, there were more positions available for higher salary employees.?On top of all that, the unemployment rate (nationally) is ~4.5%. We're booked. Not every graduate wants to be an engineer/IT professional, and not every engineer /IT professional wants to work for MS, HP, IBM, or relocate. But there is a demand, and if someone would take the time to look at Monster, Dice, CareerBuilder, etc., they would see the numbers.?I understand that people have been affected by outsourcing, but I think the trend is going to reverse (to an extent). Despite lower wages that IT/engineers overseas will accept, outsourcing is beginning to be a more expensive proposition. Some of the foreign contractors aren't very competent, and that gets costly. Some contractors will sit on a project and milk it. When there is a communication barrier with customers, they take their business elsewhere (Dell, for example). Shipping costs have increased. The time difference can drag a project out (it's not fun to get a phone call from India every other night at 11pm that lasts an hour or so). There is also a concern for reverse-engineering on some of that work.?All of this doesn't negate the fact that some companies think outsourcing makes their bottom line look good - in the short term. But when unemployment is low and they need people, they have to look somewhere.I wish you were right - trust me, I really do. Unfortunately you are not, and also unfortunately this is not just an opinion. I'm a relatively high level business researcher who advises a fortune top 10 global company, their business unit and geo-level executives, on business strategy. I've been in this and similar roles for many years now. I've actually done significant research into not just IT Outsourcing, and Manufacturing Outsourcing, but also on Business Process Outsourcing, Captive Outsourcing, Nearshore vs Offshore Outsourcing, and market research regarding what is already done today by whom and trend identification for the future. My company actually provides outsourcing services and engages in all forms of outsourcing for itself (we're number 1 or 2 in all these areas globally, today). I just wanted to clarify credentially, I'm not a joe shmoe off the street expressing an opinion or view for just a regional area.?All that said, here's the real deal folks, the information that is being kept out of public view quite effectively by the global and even large non-global corporations around the world right now. Of the Forbes Global Top 1000 companies, 99% engage in outsourcing of multiple business processes today and 99% of them have plans to expand their outsourcing operations. When I say business processes, I mean the Financial management, Supply Chain management, IT hardware & application management, manufacturing, Business Strategy, Research and Design, Learning & Knowledge management, Customer Relationship Management, and then finally Human Capital Management. For those of you who exist outside the business world perhaps you don't know what the related business processes entail. To articulate succinctly,?they entail every corporate function?with the exception of a sales force and the C-level executives (such as CEO, CIO, CFO, etc... the core officers of any company). Can you find this information yourself online or in print somewhere... the sad answer is no - other than from other corporate insiders, and investigative journalists like Lou Dobbs, hardly any data is published or available to the general public (our own US government tried to accumulate the outsourcing data, but the conclusion it came to is that corporations don't report the right information to do a good analysis --- this was over 2 years ago and that was it, the topic has since pretty much died in Congress!). Through the laws that exist today, corporations easily hide the extent of their outsourcing by setting up subsidiaries and captive outsourcing operations (companies which basically exist as though they are private companies just in partnership with the parent company) which enable them to omit all the financial and human capital details.?What everyone knows today is that nearly all the manufacturing for US companies is done overseas today... ok that is a moot point. Indeed everyone cried foul when this started to happen, but other than the loss of manufacturing jobs, America seemed to continue chugging along ok. Then IT outsourcing became vogue and public, and the industry which at first seemed to be the wave of the future for the next generation changed dramatically and quickly. IT folks no longer earn the top dollar they could command 10 years ago, and many have left the profession to do completely different things. But other than the loss of programming jobs, and high paid IT jobs in general, America has seemed to continue chugging along.?But what most people don't know is that now companies have moved to outsource the skilled white collar jobs many of us were told we should go to school for when we were younger. I'm talking about engineers, computer scientists, biological & research scientists, business strategists/analysts (anyone pursuing management degrees), product designers, accountants, investment bankers, medical technicians, and even non-litigating corporate lawyers. Sure, it seems like these jobs are still plentiful, but that is from the outside. From the inside already millions of these jobs have been routed to "low cost countries." Also from the inside, wages for these jobs in the US have not been keeping up with inflation, and indeed new hires today are hired at the same salary or less than over 7 years ago. These middle-class jobs may not be disappearing per se, at least not yet. Instead, most of the growth is going offshore. Indeed, you also see a lot of available jobs on job boards for these positions, but as others have already keenly noticed and pointed out in this thread - many of those posts are bogus - companies are just fishing right now to see if they can get a golden nugget of a candidate, when they know that they can hire out to a low-cost employee if they don't find one.?I'd love to be able to say, well people, the good news is that we're just at the beginning of this phase, so there's time to make a difference, and cause positive change. But guess what, more bad news. The outsourcing of the white collar jobs described above has been underway in most global companies for well over 5 years. Indeed, name a public/listed global company you think isn't engaged in business process outsourcing, and I'll find something that says it is already. This is not a new thing. But if you're interested in what the "new thing" is going to be, then read on.?Thus far the companies who have really focused on cost cutting through utilization of outsourcing have been the large companies - the ones who typically have lots of C-level executives, and directors and perhaps board members. These companies are easy to convince that outsourcing is a good idea because all the afforementioned folks are incented via increasing profits. One of the easiest ways to increase profits (aside from growing your sales and thus revenue) is to cut costs. Since the average tenure period of an Executive is only between 2-5 years, they love that an outsourcing company can typically make justifiable claims like "we can cut your business process costs 20-70% through the use of low-cost labor and optimized processes" because that means the typical executive can then get some sort of 6 or seven figure bonus that year and probably the next as well.?I know the next question that the typical layman and even executive has after hearing such a pitch, is "ok, so these things can be done cheaper... well will the quality be any good?" I have bad news for you --- yes it will. With the exception of a few highly publisized false-starts with people calling customer support and getting lousy IT or product support overseas - the quality of these outsourced operations have exceeded expectations. You only hear about the bad experiences, what you don't hear about is that the engineers, computer scientists, and MBA graduates out of the top Indian Universities are as bright as today's US Ivy League graduates. But these folks are hungry... very hungry for the opportunities now afforded to them that their parents never had. Even if there is an initial stumble due to language or cultural barrier, many of these folks work to improve themselves.?So that said, what's the "new or next thing" - well it is that outsourcing providers world wide have begun to package their services towards small and medium sized companies. This is a tricky matter, but it is being handled well already. Tricky because small company executives typically have different incentives, and a lot less money to spend; and a lot to lose from a single false start. Tricky also for the service provider who needs to find ways to make profit worth their while from the "smaller deals." But after over a decade of outsourcing for large companies, service providers really know what they are doing. If a large service provider comes to you, a small company owner, and says that they are willing to partner with you to help you become number one in your marketplace, that they will not only handle one or two of your non-core business support processes but also help you strategize & conduct market intelligence to grow exponentially with a scalable business model to take over the world - who in their right mind says "no thank you"? It's a no brainer. So already this is happening, already there is expansion of outsourcing service offerings to small & medium businesses - and since all small and medium-sized businesses have limited financial reporting requirements, nothing gets publisized.?Overall, this is thus a very serious issue folks. Serious because the jobs which are disappearing are the lower AND middle class jobs. Business Owners are safe. C-level executives are safe. People who have directly client-facing positions are safe. People who are friends and family members of business owners they work for are obviously safe as well. It's everyone else who is not. If you don't think this is the case, then by all means, continue doing what you're doing today. Don't pay attention to nearly all the Republican Presidential Candidates, and Hillary & Obama of the Democrats who through their actions and statements have revealed outsourcing-supporting points of view. Don't advise your children to go into client/customer facing careers or encourage them to start their own businesses. You'll see just a few years down the road that this was not just smoke and mirrors, at least via people like myself who know what's going on and have the guts to write about it.?All that said, I hope and pray to god or to whatever divine powers may be that I am proven wrong, that indeed there's a chance that the next leaders of the US and other world powers wake up to reign in this trend I've described. Globalization of the world and associated world-wide corporations isn't necessarily the issue, the issue is that because of unchecked corporate greed and the drive for continuing and unrealistic/achievable profits, once great nations are going to find themselves losing their tax base, their middle classes, and their masses will lose all ability to really achieve whatever they seek in life. We'll go back to the old days of unless you are nobility, then you only have very limited opportunities in life. I don't know about you, but I don't like that.Originally Posted by?sierraAZ?How's that for reverse outsourcing...?Indian call center lands in Ohio - August 6, 2007?( - broken link)@ some in this thread (not you)It's always funny to me when people start blaming illegals for unemployment. C'mon, get real! Those poor people do the jobs nobody else will. And they are here because they find employment. If they couldn't, they wouldn't be here - as simple as that. So all this talk about curbing illegal immigration is nothing but total BS and hypocrisy. If the government really wanted to stop it, they'd impose hefty fines on the businesses employing illegal labor. Instead, they waste money on more walls, border patrol, etc. pretending the intention really is to stop illegal immigration. But, hey, there are enough voters on whom it works..."They do jobs Americans won't do" is an old lie that won't fly anymore. The Tata outsourcing story is not new. That article does not tell us how many Americans will be doing those jobs because 90% of Tata's workforce in the US is made up of foreign workers. This is a company responsible for the loss of ten of thousand of American jobs by outsourcing them to India and by bringing foreign workers here to do US jobs.It seems as though this country has been crippled by political correctness, "white guilt," and a serious dose of ignorance on the part of many people. With many people I speak to about the illegal aliens depressing the wages, the outsourcing of jobs overseas, and bringing in foreigners to fill jobs, they have no idea what I am talking about. Has the media dumbed down the people so much that they don't realize that the rug is being ripped out from underneath us. The people need to say no to John McCain and the Socialist pig Barack Obama because neither of them are going to do a damn thing to stop the THIRD WORLD ILLEGAL ALIEN TRASH, the outsourcing of jobs and the bringing in foreign workers with all one purpose in mind which is to undercut the American worker and kill the AMERICAN DREAM!!Barack Obama talks about bringing back the "American Dream" but his voting record in the Senate and the policies he wants to implement will only make things MUCH WORSE!!! People are so afraid to speak out against the third world immigrant trash that is ruining this country out of a fear of sounding "racist."Barack Obama believes the anti illegal immigrant advocates like myself are "racist." And people voted for this guy?? Look at Mr. Obama's voting record and John McCain and people with half a brain can see that neither of them are on our side. With Barack Obama you get an appeasing, politically correct, wealth distribution socialist and with John McCain you get a neo-fascist like Bush who will only help the rich get richer and the middle and lower class get poorer. There is a bigger and bigger difference between rich and poor all of the time. One of the earmarks of a third world country is a country without a middle class.To all of you OBAMAMORONS and McCAINPSYCHOS:WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!I worked temp/contract jobs for about 10 years. Almost every position was a "temp to hire" but it never panned out. The worst example of this was at Best Buy. A month of jumping through hoops (phone interview, 2 in person interviews, background check, fingerprinting, drug test, etc) for a position that was supposed to be 12-18 months and then permanent afterward. I got great feedback from both the agency and my managers at Best Buy, but after 6 weeks I was told on a Thursday that Friday would be my last day. Apparently the department never had the budget for the position... but perhaps not coincidentally, I had finished my initial project.I can count on one hand the people that I worked with that got hired on full time. The phrase "temp to hire" is a scam to entice workers to bust their a$$. Don't get your hopes up. You've already been there 3 months, if they wanted to hire you on full time, they probably would already have done so. Unless you do just want to do temp work, you really have to keep looking for permanent positions.Originally Posted by?Cely24?Hello,Are temp to hire jobs real? I've been working as a temp to hire employee for 3 months. Not the best feeling ever. How long should I stay there? I'm doing good I've learned alot. I haven't miss a day and always on time.Some DO turn into perm positions, but more don't. Never trust the headhunter, they're not in it for you, they're in it for THEM.I've been hired permanently from 2 out of the 3 temp jobs I've had, but none were sold as temp to perm. Don't assume or even think they will become perm, they become perm for all stars they can't let go of.?Never stop looking for another job in another company. Temping is great for what it is. Keep your resume current. Gain some more experience. Have a check coming in (even if you get unemployment, I'd advise tempting even if you're not making a net gain... I've found that having you being working makes a huge difference in who gets interview calls).As someone else mentioned, temps get permanent opportunities 27% of the time. That's a very nice probability and much higher than your chances of landing a permanent job through an interview process. However, just because you have this very fortunate opportunity, you should still continue your search for a permanent job if that's what you desire.It's very common to get hired from temp to permanent if the job was warehouse or doesn't offer a lot of pay or benefits once hired. However, it's very rare to get hired permanent in the corporate and office world. Basically they will use you up, take advantage of you for the low pay, then they will toss you out without any remorse or appreciation. In my job they only hired maybe one person a year. My advice is to get experience from that job while you're there and keep looking for permanent positions. If you get hired permanent at your job then great, but don't put all your hopes in that job when there are others out there.Don't wait. Anyone taking a temp to hire should consider the job as just temp and keep your job search going full effort and leave when you get a permanent offer. Otherwise companies pull the perma-temp when are you going to hire me game which isn't fun for the worker. The way this gets stopped is when workers don't put up with it.Originally Posted by?JohnnyMack?There is that 100% meaningless figure.... WHY are only 27% of "temp" jobs turning perm? .?My wife started a job as a "temp" she was hired and had that job for ten years until they closed the company.So using my personal experience 100% of "temp" jobs turn perm.Good for your wife that she was one of the 27%. The 27% figure is based on research conducted by Susan Houseman a senior economist at the W.E Upjohn Instutute for Employment Research and has plenty of meaning. It means companies and agencies are duping people into taking lousy temp jobs by calling them temp to hire and implying that if they work hard and do a good job they will be hired. The joke is on them. Posted by?JohnnyMack?It does list WHY they are not hired perm... What percentage of resumes sent to companies results in that person hired perm, what percentage of hires pass their probation period?MY personal experience shows 100% of temp turn perm, at my place it's about 50%(maybe less), NONE of which is the company stringing the person along with no intent of hiring them perm.YES, we do have real temps, they know going in it is NOT a perm job but we do end up hiring some of this group due to their work quality.The fact that 73% aren't getting hired tells me that they never had a chance in the first place ie they were defrauded into taking the temp job and carrot and sticked into working their butts off.I could see 20% or so of the workers, who are interviewed and screened by the way, not passing muster. Not 73% . I'd only take any temp job as a very last resort and keep searching full effort since the 27% tells you there is a 73% chance the job is just temp and you are being jerked arround.Originally Posted by?NJBest?Obviously the same applies to the great odds associated with temp to perm. Employers and candidates are getting it right 27% of the time. This means that the risk associated with separation the remaining 73% is kept minimal. A massive efficiency.I don't doubt it is efficient for the company. They get a worker to accept a job with no or substandard benefits, and often far below market pay and who then works his @ss off on the pretense that if he/she performs well they'll be hired. Then when it comes time to pay up or they decide they don't need the worker he is out on his @ss. The joke was on him.Those are the types of companies that use temp agencies and another reason why I tell people not to take a temp job if you can avoid them. Many temp agency clients are as slimy as the agencies themselves. The only way the above games stop is when workers wise up that they are being played for suckers. There are quite a few companies near me especially the big corps who churn and burn through temps and never hire them or string them along for years if the worker lets them.Take the temp job if you are desperate and the second you get a perm offer leave and the company can hold the bag. As far as I am concerned with temp you don't even owe them any notice as if they can't even commit enough to hire you directly you have even less committment to them. A 73% chance you are getting duped is not great odds for the worker.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?The fact that 73% aren't getting hired tells me that they never had a chance in the first place ie they were defrauded into taking the temp job and carrot and sticked into working their butts off.I could see 20% or so of the workers, who are interviewed and screened by the way, not passing muster. Not 73% . I'd only take any temp job as a very last resort and keep searching full effort since the 27% tells you there is a 73% chance the job is just temp and you are being jerked arround.I have been a 'temp' for eight years. I am really not complaining since the job is very close and I am on SS and Medicare + they have me listed as a 'professional' temp (which means more money). My feeling is that companies don't actively go after workers pushing 70.?I can easily understand the frustration of younger workers looking for full time positions and just jerked around. I have seen many good workers come and go; frustrated by the fact that these companies do not do better jobs recruiting full time employees. Then you have the other issues of nepotism, favoritism, and butt kissing that gets some full time positions while others still wait. Some employees work for years as temps to watch others, off the street, shooed into full time positions. Many times these full time positions are filled by acquaintances or relatives of full time employees - not a moral booster!Progressives try to justify the importing of foreigners by saying the west needs more labor for economic growth, and yet they also hate on capitalism by saying it will create technological unemployment where people won't find jobs because of automation. How can you believe both of those things at once??? Surely if you think automation is going to harm people you would not want to import even more people?The reason for bringing in foreigners is that employers are dogmatically unwilling to train anyone. They want to hire only those who have already spent 5 years doing THE EXACT SAME JOB elsewhere.?There are too many assumptions and it doesn't really look like a proper argument.?Either you have a discussion on one topic (H1B) or the other (problems of automation).?Mark Zuckerberg is running a business. He wants the best workers, and those are currently foreign born. He can technically pay them less than an American worker. And as ncole1 states, doesn't really have much incentive to add training programs. As a capitalist, isn't that what you'd want?Politics comes into play here only to grandstand and has really nothing to do about the economics of the thing.The discussion is mute anyway because brighter American STEM students will be up and coming within 5-10 years, and by that time things will be more efficient an we'll most likely have a surplus of great coders.Having kids in the business and having lived in a tech sector, I have routinely seen H1-B workers brought in, paying less than half, and the US workers having to train the new workers. Not limited to Disney. It is all about hiring the people as CONTRACTORS through a contracting company. No benefits, very limited HR overhead, and an ability to fire and replace at will.?There are very talented people who were writing code now selling computers at Frys, working at Geek Squad. The US pushes STEM classes but then actively being in people to take these same jobs from overseas.It is not about training because companies are more than willing to spend money having American workers train the H1B worker.It is all about $$$$$$ and being able to pay someone less once they are brought up to speed.The politics of the dispossession of the American proletariat is a sham. That treason has no partisan slant. They're both complicit in the abandonment of the US labor force. Too bad this isn't 1799 and thus guillotining oligarchs no longer customary. Because people of yesteryear lost their heads for much less than what we're being affronted with as an American labor market....Originally Posted by?harhar?There are too many assumptions and it doesn't really look like a proper argument.?Either you have a discussion on one topic (H1B) or the other (problems of automation).?Mark Zuckerberg is running a business. He wants the best workers, and those are currently foreign born. He can technically pay them less than an American worker. And as ncole1 states, doesn't really have much incentive to add training programs. As a capitalist, isn't that what you'd want?Politics comes into play here only to grandstand and has really nothing to do about the economics of the thing.The discussion is mute anyway because brighter American STEM students will be up and coming within 5-10 years, and by that time things will be more efficient an we'll most likely have a surplus of great coders.Moot, not mute.Don't even get me started on coding jobs. Even jobs requiring some coding but not as their main focus, ask you to know so many languages it isn't funny. And even trivial differences in some cases mean you don't fit - for example knowing C++ but not Java!A lot of tech firms like the agency I work for uses H1B1 workers as fill ins. American tech workers like me often change jobs because we find better paying ones and creates vacancies that can be detrimental to tech firms. H1B1 workers gives firm an insurance against American worker turnovers and prevents salary growth.Which has been confirmed by all sources that IT salaries have remained stagnant the last decade or so, only specific roles have much higher growth.Rich guys like Zuckerberg wants Tech jobs to become like our landscaping jobs all go to foreign cheap labor.First we have to employ American workers before we import foreigners. If we must import foreigners the companies must pay a tax to the government so the imports cost 200+% of American workers. We must stop the US government from employing labor contractors to supply workers for government jobs ranging from park maintenance to mercenaries. We need to end the silliness of Right to Work for Nothing laws. We need strong unions to counter the economics of monopoly business.?Mostly we need to cancel all of our trade treaties and replace them with countervailing tariffs that end the cost advantage of imports because of foreign government subsidy, low cost labor, lax environmental standards and nonexistent quality control. This will serve to return manufacturing to the United States. Even though prices may be a bit higher there will be so many more employed at higher wages the prices will be affordable. What will differ is the amount of money available for overseas investment and stock speculators.?Some will say tat this tariff will destroy Free Trade. It would if Free Trade actually existed. It does not and never has!Originally Posted by?hakkarin?Progressives try to justify the importing of foreigners by saying the west needs more labor for economic growth, and yet they also hate on capitalism by saying it will create technological unemployment where people won't find jobs because of automation. How can you believe both of those things at once??? Surely if you think automation is going to harm people you would not want to import even more people?I think you're laboring the term "progressive" a bit much when you suppose that the same people who want foreign labor here are somehow "hating on" capitalism. So much of what passes for a progressive movement today is simply the leftovers from a bygone era. The so called progressive today is someone like Obama who worships at Wall street but seems to hold his own in the theatrical display of his wanting to reign in the excesses of capitalism gone wrong. Unrestrained capitalism serves the few, the rule of law serves the many.?Today the world of multinational business has taken on it's own persona, mostly one of ruler and fabricator of our future. Virtually owning the elected officials and therefore government itself, business is no longer just capital at work, it is now a ruling class that has perverted capitalism for it's own interests. Automation and technology are certainly not the sole property of capitalism either, but both have rendered the worker as a bystander to a show of indifference. We are all in this together, so it is our best interest to address these problems together.I'm hoping that people in America can discuss these issues without their political biases being the driving force when considering the need for real change. My own take on the employment issues we face does include a concern that workers who are quickly displaced aren't so quick to find new employment, I'm also concerned that we don't have enough pie to share with much of the worlds labor force, if that's being anti immigrant than I'm guilty of that. The sundry of business round table type groups in America are creating much of our government policy, both foreign and domestic, and both parties are complying with the results of that planned direction. is that progressive? Is that capitalism?Lack of talent is not the reason. It's a lack of talent willing to work for a Walmart clerk wage and no benefits. But then again, in the third wold you have millions of people trying to do whatever it takes to get out of the slums, including doing highly skilled work for peanuts. The corporations take advantage of that.Originally Posted by?ncole1?The reason for bringing in foreigners is that employers are dogmatically unwilling to train anyone. They want to hire only those who have already spent 5 years doing THE EXACT SAME JOB elsewhere.?Not true, they are willing to train foreigners, the bulk of whom are just average folks with average skills and intelligence, albeit much more eager workers willing to put up with a lot, a GC carrot is dangling in front of their nose, and a stick of restricted (American) job/employer choices whipping their backs 24/7.The bulk of the foreign "talents" are provided by the countries like China, India, and few other 2nd world breeders of the talents and hard to find skills.Originally Posted by?hakkarin?Surely if you think automation is going to harm people you would not want to import even more people?Why not?You seem to think that 5.4 Million job openings + 8 Million unemployed = 2.6 Million unemployed.?It doesn't work that way.At one time, the only Skill-sets were:Clan leaderHunterGathererProstituteThis might come as a shock, but it's now the 21st Century and there are 800+ Skill-sets.?The goal is to match a Skill-set to a job, not match a person to a job.Put another way, an unemployed person is not automatically qualified to perform every other job, in spite of what you might think.? # HYPERLINK "" \t "new" 24?????????03-11-2016, 01:51 PMevilcartSenior Member?????befriend?Join Date: Jul 2014528 posts, read?161,937?timesReputation: 1329Quote:Originally Posted by?harhar?There are too many assumptions and it doesn't really look like a proper argument.?Either you have a discussion on one topic (H1B) or the other (problems of automation).?Mark Zuckerberg is running a business. He wants the best workers, and those are currently foreign born. He can technically pay them less than an American worker. And as ncole1 states, doesn't really have much incentive to add training programs. As a capitalist, isn't that what you'd want?Politics comes into play here only to grandstand and has really nothing to do about the economics of the thing.The discussion is mute anyway?because brighter American STEM students will be up and coming within 5-10 years, and by that time things will be more efficient an we'll most likely have a surplus of great coders.(I think you mean moot)a small percentage of H-1Bs are in the high end of tech dev. Over 90% are in companies that MSFT , Google etc outsource to. Most visa hires are NOT hired into high level high skill positions, most are bog standard C.S. kids.The issue is not whether or not it makes sense for business to seek hires outside the USA . The issue is centered on the patently false claims that there are not enough American tech worker to fill the roles.The fact is , there are far more than enough, but the industry profits greatly from pretending there is not.By creating an artificial market for employees earning 60k (the threshold as set by the gov) we suppress wages and create an artificial cap on mid level tech panies like HCL pay employees about 60-70k while pocketing 20-40k. MS Google save by having a worker that has no additional healthcare costs and gets a total pay package well below FTEs.But now instead of a family with a strong earner we have a family making just enough to get by, while the extra 40k saved goes directly off shore for a double Dutch and a half Irish (or whatever the latest tax trick is).?H-1B and other visa programs work to flatten wages, and reduce employee leverage. We already have some of the worse employment terms in the developed world. Now we have cheap high skilled labor.All this would be fine if we had robust social safety nets to assist the millions of people who hopes and dreams that been crushed over the last 30 years. But instead we blame the victims.The thing to remember is that while the benefits of outsourcing, imported goods etc are enjoyed by all. the damage , or should I say the "cost" impacts individuals in a hugely destructive way.?Americans are not lazy, they are not stupid they are not over entitled. But they do have some of the worse working conditions in the developed world. And we do have the worst social safety net of any major developed country.Yes high tech might need another 100K 1 percenters, glow in the dark mega brainy hires.. But that has nothing to do with what is happening on the ground.We need to completely rethink what direction we wish to take this country. What we need is to decide do we want to build our nation for the people or for the corporations.Originally Posted by?ncole1?If this is so, how do they get around the requirement that they pay the H1B worker the same as a citizen?H1B workers have no life, they are eager to please employers by working more to secure a job and/or prospects for a green card. Employers dont have to pay them less, they know that h1b are motivated to work more, besides an h1b is essentially enslaved to the employer that sponsored him/her.Originally Posted by?ncole1?If this is so, how do they get around the requirement that they pay the H1B worker the same as a citizen?I don't know for sure, but I think the big companies like Tata consultancy get the contracts from the American companies then Tata places the foreign workers with a H1B visa. They also under pay these workers, but on paper it looks good because Tata received the average wage for these positions. In the end the H1B visa holders are getting screwed as well. When you consider where they're coming from I don't blame them for doing anything possible to get out of their situation.Here is an interesting video of Mumbai, India that can illustrate some of the conditions people in India face. Mumbai segment starts at 17:32Originally Posted by?ncole1?If this is so, how do they get around the requirement that they pay the H1B worker the same as a citizen?It's a loophole. A corporation lays off a worker. They use a contractor from one of the big Indian H-1B shops to replace them. That contractor isn't an employee of the corporation so they're not violating the law.The most unethical thing I've seen was a corporation that laid off their QA group and had Infosys offer them their jobs back as contractors for 50 cents on the dollar with just about no benefits. If the laid off employee declined, they were ineligible for unemployment benefits. Huge layoff and the corporation didn't get nailed with increased unemployment insurance premiums. The finance guys must have been staining their sheets for weeks for pulling off that one. That's the hardest corporate screwing I've ever seen.If foreign labor was hypothetically able to enter the US and legally secure jobs in significant numbers as:Attorneys, doctors & CEOs of US companies. . .?Then sh** would literally hit the fan and it would hit REAL hard.Those that are in favor of incoming foreign labor are those that will not or could not be affected by it.Originally Posted by?NJBest?Which effectively mimics people's willing to learn. Everyone expects someone else to train them rather than learn on their own. It's just sad.How am I supposed to learn on my own when employers want 5 years experience and won't offer me a job 5 years in advance??There also is an slow unveiling of the corporate use of bullying foreign workers with the threat of deportation at any time that the employer wants that is worse the the "at will" clause used with American labor because of the fear of being sent back to their original country.A worker could be working in constant fear to the point that trying to negotiate a raise or better working conditions would never be brought up making these workers the definition of being perfect employees."Look at these people, willing to work long hours without whining about wanting a vacation, sick time, or a day off to spend time with family like the American workers do"?It's like an invisible "iron fist" being held over you.If the potential existed for US politicians to lose their jobs or be replaced by incoming foreign politicians. . . . .The borders would be sealed shut, a wall would be built anywhere that it made practical sense and immigration into the US would come to a complete halt.Mark Zuckerberg, Tech Leaders Urge Supreme Court to Open U.S. Labor Market To Illegals...more than 60 tech business leaders say that Obama’s executive amnesty programs are essential to a stable national workforce.“By clarifying its enforcement priorities and giving certain low-priority undocumented immigrants the opportunity to obtain temporary work authorization, the federal government can help stabilize labor supplies in these, and many other, industries, thereby reducing labor shortages and spurring economic growth,” the brief reads in part.Stabilize labor supplies?? Reducing labor shortages?? Does anyone believe giving illegal immigrants temporary work authorization help the American worker? Of course not.These business leaders want cheap labor. And who can blame them... the government continues to raise the costs of doing business in this country to the point where countries either relocate their operations in different countries, or they want the illegals outside the country to work here - which circumvents many regulations for which they would be liable and makes the cost of operation more panies don't want the high cost American worker. Because of regulations, we are increasingly getting priced out of the jobs market for the lower cost illegal immigrants.Because so many things are out of whack,?we get statements like...?today’s immigration laws are broken and need fundamental reform. Central to the efforts of FWD.us is advocating for legal status for undocumented immigrants, so that DREAMers and so many others can achieve their full potential.The immigration laws are not broken. The burden of over-regulation have made the cost of hiring American workers too expensive for some companies. The solution?for them?is hacking the immigration laws. The real solution to improve this country is to reboot our regulations and scale them back.Facebooks profit is 1 billion dollars.1 billion dollars.?The US workforce participation rate is at it's lowest point in 38 years, yet Facebook is earning 1 billion per year in profits.And we're supposed to believe he needs to hire illegals? There's no one who could do the jobs or be trained to do the jobs? Zuckerberg is the beneficiary of growing up in the US and all it's educational and social institutions. Now that he's got his, he doesn't care if all those things are destroyed and we turn into the 3rd world.Originally Posted by?middle-aged mom?Here's a NYT link to a report of a massive 25,000 layoff at IBM. Oh yeah. It's from 1993, 23 years ago.?I.B.M. Weighs Possibility of Job Layoffs - Walmart surpassed IBM as the largest US employer in the 80's. Then McDonalds and YUM Brands pushed IBM to # 4.?IBM has eliminated 100,000 world- wide jobs over the past decade.?There's speculation of firing 14,000 of IBM's world- wide employees. Some attribute it to the $ 1 billion tax settlement in Japan. Others attribute it to a lack of demand for consultants as the market shifts from hardware to cloud system and the need to rebalance the workforce to eliminate non- strategic skill sets.?IBM recently laid off 700 in India and about 400 in Belgium.One of the reasons I wouldn't want to work for IBM, since I worked with guys from IBM is that the company is no longer a relevant player in delivering advanced solutions for IT. They don't hire top notch IT pros for long term assignments. They want US IT Pros to come in and take on a lead position for 6-24 months and have a bunch of low rate guys shadow you and then when the time is up you're let go. They will call you again if you're available and can help jumpstart other projects but that requires travel.?They don't hire American workers starting out. Only those experienced and over qualified.Originally Posted by?roadwarrior101?Maybe they don't think its the same quality, but don't care anyway. Perhaps they don't believe they need the best, but just good enough??Also, another thing I've noticed (having lived in the valley for years) is that the IT industry has turned into the Indian mafia. Someone will hire one into a leadership position and they'll only take care of others from their caste. Blatant discrimination/bigotry, but nobody seems to care. If this were a white person doing this to other races/sexes, the media would be all over it, but if its done by Indians, it is a non-story.This is arguably the worst thing to come to this country is that now we have racial discrimination of a different kind. Depts that are headed by Indians hire almost exclusively Indian. It's almost guaranteed that 80% of subordinates under an Indian boss will be Indian, including non-skill positions. 2-3 Years ago, I applied for a role in Goldman Sachs in downtown NYC. The hiring manager was Indian, I was interviewed by 4 other people. Other than the Sikh guy who is a different religion but they were all of the same race. These guys probably span 2-3 internal depts. That's one place at other job sites especially development and web centric roles it's almost 80% Indian with 10% white.?I don't know what this translate to the future of IT here but it's alarming for sure.Originally Posted by?MikeBear?How can an American IT guy compete against an Indian that gets paid the equivalent of?$6,000?US?a year?for what the bosses / higher ups think is thesame quality?of work?I'm about to lose my job of nearly 28 years because of that, and by the time my company figures it out, and goes back to American IT, it'll be too late for me and many others.First, my best wishes for you and your family. We could stop this outsourcing, H1B1, unlimited immigration, etc. madness if all the Americans could unite and present a unified front. Unfortunately individualism is an American characteristic, and often times this individualism is stretched to absurd and just mean limits. In your specific case, for many many Americans you brought yourself to this situation because you:- didn't make the right choices in your youth- you didn't keep up your skills- you are being laid-off because you are not a top performer- should stop whining and find another job, or if you don't like the system move to Cuba or North Korea- you are just plain lazyHopefully the new generations will be more sympathetic with their fellow AmericansOriginally Posted by?yellowsnow?I live in Las Vegas. For the first 2 years I was here I had a legit resume. I had 1 interview. Then I took off everything but High School and got the next job I applied for. Vegas is, unfortunately, full of craptastic jobs. The people hiring were always less educated than I was. I should have figured it out sooner.Some think this is dishonest but the resume is my tool and I will tweak it as necessary to do what I want. Nothing on that resume was not true and verifiable. I just chose to not let them reject me as being overqualified. I have dumbed down previous jobs too. No guilt here because I DID file papers, work on spreadsheets, and answer the phone.What is ironic is they wouldn't hire you and now they will hire you, yet you are the same exact person.The job economy is so bad for entry level, that not hiring college grads for jobs that do not require degrees, for the mere reason that you think they will immediately leave, is not a valid reason at all.If these people could get jobs in their field of study they wouldn't even be applying for these jobs to begin with.HR makes it seem like these people can get jobs in their field instantly.And so what if they leave in 3-6 months or a year. Turnover is high at these type of jobs anyway. I would rather have the overqualified working and leaving instead of the barely qualified working and leaving. At least the job would get done better and you then get a chance to find the diamonds in the rough and promote them up without having to pay the high salaries to find them.Originally Posted by?High Altitude?The job economy is so bad for entry level, that not hiring college grads for jobs that do not require degrees, for the mere reason that you think they will immediately leave, is not a valid reason at all.If these people could get jobs in their field of study they wouldn't even be applying for these jobs to begin with.HR makes it seem like these people can get jobs in their field instantly.Agreed. I guess it make sense for companies HR departments to be concerned when they receive a resume from a History grad, for example, who kicked butt at college with a 4.0 gpa, multiple societies and clubs, etc. who is applying at a basic office job or call center work, or whatever. They probably think the person will jump ship as soon as they get a museum or teaching job, or whatever else that obviously suits their skills/talents better than the kind of entry-level or dead-end job they're currently applying for. But then again, even the "perfect" hires don't work out and quit after 6 months anyway...so hiring is still (and always will be) a crapshoot.It becomes just surviving, and we didn't go to school to just survive. I can't say that people who work blue-collar jobs want to feel that way either.?The problem is the economy.It's all about Manufacturing too, which affects every single industry in this nation.From an article by Michael SnyderThe US has lost over 5.5 million manufacturing jobs since 2000. Those aren't just?factory?workers, it's engineers too..In 1959, manufacturing represented 28 percent of U.S. economic output. In 2008, it represented 11.5 percent.The United States has lost approximately 42,400 factories since 2001. About 75 percent of those factories employed over 500 people when they were still in operation.In 2008, 1.2 billion cellphones were sold worldwide. So how many of them were manufactured inside the United States? Zero.As of the end of 2009, less than 12 million Americans worked in manufacturing. The last time less than 12 million Americans were employed in manufacturing was in 1941.In the United States today, consumption accounts for 70 percent of GDP. Of this 70 percent, over half is spent on services.The United States has lost a whopping 32 percent of its manufacturing jobs since the year 2000.articles/19-Facts-About-The-Deindus-by-Michael-Snyder-110115-119.htmlinlimbo in Redmond, Oregon said:?I know how hard it is to keep at it, but it only takes 1 opportunity. Like Cat says no stone unturned.A little part time job would make me very happy right now. My career in my young years started out that way, so I don't underestimate the power of starting out small. Companies are afraid to invest in people. Things could start turning around and if you have a foot in the door, you may have a chance in having a career again. I just know I am too young to retire!Dontbelieveit in Crazyhorse, Indiana said:?It becomes just surviving, and we didn't go to school to just survive. I can't say that people who work blue-collar jobs want to feel that way either.?The problem is the economy.It's all about Manufacturing too, which affects every single industry in this nation.From an article by Michael SnyderThe US has lost over 5.5 million manufacturing jobs since 2000. Those aren't just?factory?workers, it's engineers too..In 1959, manufacturing represented 28 percent of U.S. economic output. In 2008, it represented 11.5 percent.The United States has lost approximately 42,400 factories since 2001. About 75 percent of those factories employed over 500 people when they were still in operation.In 2008, 1.2 billion cellphones were sold worldwide. So how many of them were manufactured inside the United States? Zero.As of the end of 2009, less than 12 million Americans worked in manufacturing. The last time less than 12 million Americans were employed in manufacturing was in 1941.In the United States today, consumption accounts for 70 percent of GDP. Of this 70 percent, over half is spent on services.The United States has lost a whopping 32 percent of its manufacturing jobs since the year 2000.articles/19-Facts-About-The-Deindus-by-Michael-Snyder-110115-119.htmlThis all is true! And there are many, many jobs that will never come back. We also outsource like crazy, along with the rest of the world. Cheaplabor?is here to stay. This makes it very hard for most of us, unless we are already well established.Joe in Monticello, New York said:?Connections are overrated IMO. You have some of the brightest and most accomplished people unemployed with good connections and it still takes 2 years for them to land back on their feet with a decent job again.?It's pretty insulting when people assume connections get you a job. A connection will get your resume put at the top of the stack, or put in a good word for you. But you still have to close the deal yourself.My current job, I used a connection to get an interview. I was up against 4 others, who had also all used connections. I still had to be flawless to get the job.And that's what I've learned. You have to be perfect. Not just in your qualifications but in your interview. The slightest slip, like a stutter or poor posture, is all it takes for them to move on. Employers are looking for perfection.Unhappilyunemployed in Pennsylvania said:?Some of your homeless are our veterans! Many homeless have issues of mental illness and addiction that they cannot get the help they need. You can't even walk into a?hospital?without an ID and a mailing address. Social services are too overwhelmed and many of those workers either make minimal wage or volunteer. My heart breaks for these people. I wish our country provided?healthcare?and basic services for everyone in true need.I have noticed this too, a lot of the homeless are veterans. There was a guy in a downtown area with a sign. My son and I went and got him a take out meal and a?beverage. It makes me angry someone like him is homeless.?Yes, without an address, it's almost impossible to get a job, too.inlimbo in Redmond, Oregon said:?It is impossible to get benefits if you are homeless. There is not enough mental?health?in this country. I speak from experience. The institutionalization that used to go on stopped in the 80s. Those mental hospitals closed down, there really is no where to put people. The other issue is each state has its own commitment laws. So people who are dangerous can not be committed because of the?law. The VA system does not take care of veterans very well.Every homeless person is not just dealing with mental illness. Some people are dealing with medical illnesses that have made them unable to hold a job and they are denied disability and become homeless. There a just so many other reasons why people are homeless today.?But I feel like, until our?government?can make sure every vet can get the treatment they need and the?housing?and employment they need. Our gov. officials should not get a paycheck, because it is deplorable that the vets are not taken of, while our "do nothing congress" can continue to live high of the hog.Jeff in Silver Spring, Maryland said:?Hiring?is done by stereotype. If you don't fit the stereotype for the job, it's hard to get hired.So true, but so sad. I think there are lots of unemployed people who could and would do better work than the people that are currently employed and/or unfortunately making hiring decisions, but unfortunately, they don't fit the mold. I went to an interview where I met a former co-worker who had been laid off before the recession for really poor performance, and was now working at the company I was interviewing with. When I got the rejection letter, I wondered how a guy who was consistently ranked at the bottom during yearly performance reviews could get a job, but I could not... I still don't know??? I guess he fits the mold.designer?bee in Waukesha, Wisconsin said:?The?design?industry is like this. You can design materials for a?financial?company, but if you want to design materials for a?hospital, you won't get hired. If you designed brochures and?business?cards, you won't be hired to design signs and packaging. I don't get these companies. Whatever happened to transferable skills?Forget about trying to get in an ad agency if you never worked for one and if you're not under the age of 35, you aren't getting hired for that. Only young people have good ideas for?advertising. No luck for any designosaurs.OMG tell me about it. I see these job ads and now I just laugh '5 years designing for the?healthcare?industry with 3 years experience in X, Y' with 1 year of experience in Z. IT SO STUPID!Its the same with marketing ...'must have a deep passion and X years of experience for pharmaceuticals' ...really? REALLY?!Right now I'm working in an industry that I have no desire to pursue in the future once my temp gig is up.....I just know i'm going to be pigeonholed now b/c thats all recruiters are going to see...all my skills are transferrable they apply to many industries. Why is that so difficult to understand?!I think they put those things in ads as a way to reduce the amount of resumes and maybe, just maybe find that magic individual who has all those characteristics. I say apply anyways, its doubtful they find anyone who fits their notions.As for ad agencies/marketing firms....don't you know? They're not?hiringbased on competency or anything foolish like that...its all looks, personality and 'fitting in.' Being a tall, leggy blonde helps too.Trust me, I learned this lesson FINALLY. I wasted too much time on these places. All you have to do is go on LinkedIN and take a look at the majority of who they hire....similar characteristics will become apparent. Not to sound bitter or anything - nobody really wants to admit it but that's what sells in north america.The place I'm at now (temporarily) is SO diverse, I was shocked and pleasantly surprised.Unhappilyunemployed in Pennsylvania said:?I realized after a year and a half of looking, so much has changed since I went on a serious search before. The odds are pretty much stacked against most of us. I want to tell anyone new to the search to have lots of hope and don't quit applying. But here are some truths I have personally learned and I hope others that also have been in this long search will add or expand on my list;1. Ridiculous long online applications, some will take an hour long to complete?2. Be prepared to be asked your social security number and the year you graduated high school?3. The requirement to be "?bilingual?", even for jobs that have nothing to do with serving the public?4. The feeling of discrimination with all the "must be" or "must have" statements?5. Jobs seem to no longer offer?health?benefits or?full time?hours?6. Forget about showing any aggression such as showing up in person with a resume or doing follow-up calling after an interview. No one gets an offer on the first try.?7. Think again about the value of "LinkedIn". It's horribly overrated.?8. Apply directly to a company, no matter where you have seen the ad?9. Think you have great connections? It won't matter if no one is?hiring?10. Everything you thought you had over your competition is still not enoughSorry if I take the negative slant. It took me about 300 applications and a dozen interviews to find this out. Anyone else care to add or dispute what is really going on out thereAdd these to the list:- Expect to lose your friends and family because you are unemployed.?They act like you have a contagious disease called unemployment.?No kidding, I have lost all of my long term friends and some very close family members because I am unemployed.- If you get a job you need to realize the work environment has changed dramatically in the past few years. Abusive behavior by others is rampant in the workplace.When I would tell people about the bullying, abusive behavior etc of my bosses and co workers they were like "wow you sure have bad luck in finding those kind of people". This usually came from the long term employeed folks. They dont know it is the norm in our society and our workplaces now. I've seen more than i care to remember...One of my bosses would find a way to give me a shoulder shove or nudge with her elbow when she passed me. The woman was simmering with rage (and alcohol). Upper management knew it and did nothing. I was eventually fired as were others. I can say that this experience makes me want to be a better person and never ever act remotely like i've seen those people behave.Originally Posted by?pappjohn?IBM was the main employer in Endicott, New York for many years.Unfortunately management after the 80s were poor leaders and US politiciansconspired against US companies, like IBM. Outsourcing and H1Bs became IBMs goto solution and it has not really stopped the decline.IBM used to boast to anyone who'd listen, "We've never laid off a single employee. Not even during the Depression." Then in the '90's the unthinkable happened. The older people were offered sweet early retirement packages if they'd quit, which many did, seeing the handwriting on the wall. This was not the old IBM anymore. Then younger people began to get laid off but at least with decent severance. I grew up around IBM in the '80's and still remember the adults talking in IBMer hushed tones. Asking what was with the sudden, puzzling, re-orgs and the slow selling off of company divisions...what was upper management doing? What was their direction, if they even had one? Morale was low in the '80's but in the '90's it was like in negative territory and has been there since. Before the '80's IBM was a great company, a global standout, a leader in so many respects. I wish it could have lasted that way for another hundred years.Before the '80's IBM was a great company, a global standout, a leader in so many respects. I wish it could have lasted that way for another hundred years.Very true. IBM was fantastic up to the early 80s, maybe the best, but not today. Today it is approaching un-american territory. Like Facepuke and other tech companies, it now works against the American workforce.In 10 yrs all coding will be done in regional languages of India.. If you can't speak them, then too bad.?Software Job statistics are growing as per your research but its only being done to increase quota for H-1B programs by the tech companies so that they can get cheap more qualified labor from Asia and increase dividends for their shareholders. If the current trend keeps growing majority of the IT related jobs will shift to Asia unless they are government or defense jobs. If you want to compete for same position with some mustache dude with 10 yrs of experience applying for the same position or some one trying to fake their resume in order to get in then good luck with CS and IT related job. Off course I am exaggerating a bit but you get my pointThis nation rewards innovators, creators, people who think outside the box, and in particular, risk takers. Going to work is the square, safe route. Many people put a premium on safety and security, so much so that they are willing to leave meat on the table income wise. Hence, wages don't have to rise and people still flock to the perceived safety of employment opportunities. In reality though, no job is safe. If a company can eliminate a job, they will. The premise is, a business is not a charity. In America, their only real civil duty is to provide a safe product/service and pay their taxes.?Some jobs still pay well, but there is more foreign competition than ever. Consumers have been shopping on price for some time. Many businesses have been trying to cheapen their product in response. Employees have taken it on the chin. Companies want workers to look the other way as inflation outpaces their paychecks.?America is middle of the road these days. There are countries with much more favorable labor laws. There is more parity between CEO, management and average pay for all workers in most of the world. While most people judge the quality of a job based on pay, most jobs in America offer fewer vacations, and fewer benefits. The government pays squat compared to historical averages if you are disabled due to your job. In some cases, you can sue or settle with the company.Quote:Originally Posted by?Mr.Professional?Bring BACK THE DAMN 40 hour work week America.Can't happen. A large segment of the workforce requires OT to make ends meet. Cut OT and they get another job. One rule of economics... You can only consume relative to what you produce. If you can only produce enough value in 40 hours to afford a modest home instead of a McMansion, than you must either increase your workload or accept a more modest standard of living. The same logic applies to smart phones, cable packages, vehicles, etc. Some people have a right to complain, while others just make foolish financial decisions.I don't think it's very good, anymore.When I hear about college grads and their starting salaries it's the same or worse numbers than when I graduated from college almost 20 years ago.How do you rate America in terms of jobs? (employees, average, paycheck)Pay WagesBonusesAdvancementWork Life BalancePerksCo workersBosses and ManagementCultureOriginally Posted by?Mr.Professional?Pay WagesBonusesAdvancementWork Life BalancePerksCo workersBosses and ManagementCultureDepends.2.) Depends.3.) Sucks.4.) Really sucks.5.) Depends, but usually sucks.6.) Depends.7.) Depends, but usually sucks.8.) Depends, but usually sucks.Originally Posted by?Mr.Professional?Pay WagesBonuses?Poor unless you are high level executive. My lazy boss that did nothing received a $6000.00 bonus while the rest of us received $100-$800.00. And we all know how the big wigs get six figures for doing nada.?Advancement?In my experience not good. Where I'm presently at a LOT of nepotism and that's who advances.?Work Life Balance?You have to fight for this. We accrue 7 hours a month vacation/sick time. It's really pathetic when I think about it. Shouldn't minimum be EIGHT hours since we WORK eight hours a day? And the assumption weekends and staying late is the norm.??Perks [COLOR="red"]Pizza lunch once a year...um okay. Not exactly my idea of a perk[/color]Co workers?lazy, unambitious, contentBosses and Management?terrible. Sat on many laps to get where they're at.Culture?There is no culture here.?...For each person on the forum that could be different, though most people seem to enjoy complaining. If I were to answer based on my own experience and that of family and friends:Pay Wages - GoodBonuses - NoneAdvancement - GoodWork Life Balance - GoodPerks - GreatCo workers - GoodBosses and Management - GoodCulture – GoodPay Wages-?A JOKE!! They want new college graduates right out of school working the job of 2-3 people in a position that only requires a HS diploma for 10-15 bucks an hour and you BETTER HAVE 10 years experience as well.?Bonuses-?Unless you're high up the food chain with a comfy upper echelon job, a JOKE!!! The bonus money trickles up to the top at the expense of the backbone of the company (The actual productive workers)Advancement-?Not bad if you have relatives or buddies in power positions of hiring. If not, forget about itWork Life Balance-?Compared to the rest of the world, doesn't America have the worst work life balance on earth??Perks-?See above.. Unless you're high up and in with people of power the perks are pretty NON-EXISTENT. You're busting you're butt without the perks making the upper management look good while the execs and upper management are out having "leadership meetings".. AKA Parties and social events (Lets just call them what they really are)?Co workers-?Overrall, Never had problems with many co-workers. (We're all in the trenches together getting USED AND ABUSED). While the big wigs are running off with the money and sitting on their behindsBosses and Management-?Most have no vision and achieved their jobs based on who they knew not meritocracy. There are more lousy upper level management than ones that deserve to be in those positions. These days they have alienated the workers, treat them like field hands, created low morale and discontent etc.?CultureOriginally Posted by?tjasse?I don't think it's very good, anymore.When I hear about college grads and their starting salaries it's the same or worse numbers than when I graduated from college almost 20 years ago.Very true and it's sickening to see so many of these companies (who pay their workers so little) making huge amounts of profit (with some even breaking records)Originally Posted by?Jorge ChemE?Avoid Applicant Tracking Systems at any cost if you are not a top employee. Those are made with the only purpose of rejecting candidates. Personally, I skip companies that use Taleo as they are impersonal and you will receive no reply or generic rejection emails. Moreover, you have to invest a large amount of your valuable time to register your profile for every company that uses this system. In some of those systems you must fill several repetitive information. The most inefficient-time consuming hiring system ever designed.Yea I know.?I've never met a single human who had anything positive to say about ATS - outside of HR. ATS is HR's wet dream. They ARE designed to screen certain types of people out. Whether it's age, unemployment gaps, certain addresses in some zip codes, certain schools, etc. With ATS, all the HR can just play on their iPads and on Facebook all day, while picking their friends for the "plum" jobs - because ATS just throws your resume in a black hole.Sent on Friday afternoon, Saturday 6 am you already get an automated rejection. And yea, you followed all the job hunter advice by rigging and playing around with the "keywords" and "format" like a good little job seeker (sheeple). So done with ATS.I can't find any decent jobs for which I have the qualifications that they want. They are all easy jobs that require little intelligence, but they always want a person with experience or knowledge of certain software. It's ridiculous.?They must expect that applicants are going to be so stupid as to be unable to learn to use the software or other aspects of the job in a reasonable amount of time. So I won't even be considered for any of these jobs, despite the fact that I probably already possess most of the required knowledge, and could learn the rest within a week or two.These are crappy, low-paying jobs. Not minimum-wage fast-food crappy, but certainly nothing that should require a degree beyond high school or any kind of certifications.So I'm in a similar situation. I want to work, but no one will give me a chance. I also have physical limitations. I don't know why everything has to be hard, but it always has been.I spent about 30 years in tech positions and yes, the attitudes in the workplace have changed. Someone mentioned loyalty and that's a big part of it. It used to be when you started a 'real' job, you expected to be there for years or decades. So you better do quality work and get along with your co-workers. Because you weren't going anywhere and neither were they. You supported your superiors and they supported you. Win/win. Today's managers seem to manage by implied threat. If this doesn't work, you are gone.Today's managers are bean counters. They can't actually help you with anything and they have no idea what you do. But they can use metrics to know how many times you did it. And tekkies are smart. They learn to game the system so it looks like they are doing it as much or more than everyone else. This is a lot of work and it takes time but actually moves the organization no closer to reaching it's goals. But the employer measures the behavior they want to encourage. And the tekkies deliver. I think this starts because the tekkies have less than zero respect for these managers. And the lower level managers are all using their time to game the mid-level managers. Metrics. Whatever is easy to count is never the whole story. Metrics rewards non-performers who are very skilled at doing nonexistent work.?Now it's every man for himself. No one has any loyalty at all. The boss will throw you under the bus whenever and often. And he will gleefully send your job to Chennai given the opportunity. They no longer want it done right, they want it done cheap and fast. So instead of working as a team to accomplish a goal, everyone is busy covering their own hind end and looking for their next job.It really wasn't all that long ago if you were lucky and skilled enough to walk through the doors of IBM as a new hire, you could pretty much expect to retire from IBM. And yes, they trained you, paid a good salary, you had great benefits, and opportunity for advancement. Because of these things you were willing to be a 'company man' and slog it out for the long haul. If you have been in tech for any time at all, you know these jobs are gone. The company safety net is gone and people perform differently when they are forced to work without a net.Originally Posted by?s1alker?The workplace is pretty depressing, at least all the ones I have been at. Crap wages, little to no benefits, revolving door of employees, managers expected to work a lot of extra free hours that lead to burn out and subsequent resignation.The general feeling is that it's all driven the same metrics that drive Wall Street with the winner take all attitude with just enough at the bottom level to barely get by in life on.?Every tear has to beat the economic metrics that were met last year.We used to have a saying at where I used to work,?"We are expected to do more, with less, in hardly any time, continuously until we get to the point that we can do everything, with nothing , in no time at all. "To people who don't do physical labor, they have no idea how long it takes to get things done, they only know how much it costs to do it and the manipulations of how to get it done for less wages.?Their pay is based on how cheap they can get things done and the workers get played off against each other until they agree to do the work for less wages with an attitude which management will complain about.Divide and conquer until the workers unite and fight.This is actually funny to me seeing all the posts on here saying a work/life balance is better than a lot of money.?A long time ago I made the decision that my work wouldn't be my life and because of that, I've spent my life at low paying jobs instead of a high powered career and I ended up pretty much with zilch for retirement. If I come into a thread say something about poor paying job or minimum wage jobs, the first response I always get is that I made a poor life decision and I should have gotten a job that paid more money, the implication being I'm a loser for not having done so.Well, one of the reasons I never wanted an 80 or 100 hr a week career was because I worked to live, not the other way around. Yet now people are asked if they'd prefer a lot of money to a work/life balance and when they have the choice, it seems they make the same decision I am being flayed for making on other threads.Interesting how that goes, isn't it?I wonder just how many people saying they'd prefer to have a work/life balance to making more money are only saying that because they already have as much money as they already need. I'm not trying to put anyone down, but I'd be interested if most people here who are actually trying to live on $24,000/yr or less really do think it's better to have a work/life balance than money.Just an observation.pebcle in Cleveland, Ohio said:?A lot of businesses "hire" volunteers for what had been paying jobs. Just went through that w/a local hospital where I had applied for all kinds of ancillary paperwork jobs. Went on a general potential volunteer mass interview & they "loved" me FOR FREE for the same paying "jobs" for which I had applied.Hospitals have huge contingent staffs of volunteers: gift shop, patient transport, courier runs, boardroom setup, etc. If it doesn't require licensing, they will try and get a volunteer to do it.Personally, I don't see anything changing any time soon unless Americans are smart enough to vote Republican in the upcoming November election and put a Republican in the White House. If the Democrats retain control of the White House, it's going to get even worse where jobs and the economy is concerned. The Democrats don't give a care in the world about jobs and the economy.Lindsay Gill in Toronto, Ontario said:?Are you frustrated applying for hundreds of jobs still waiting for a phone call back for an interview?Share your frustrations...how many jobs have you applied for vs how many call backs have you gotten?I've stopped looking... I have a BA and MBA... 5 yrs exp in sales, 4 1/2 years exp in?insurance?underwriting and operations, 5 1/2 years exp in fundaccounting?with supervisory exp... I've applied for for over 500 positions over a 3 year period. It's really not that many when you think about it but I've had only one face to face interview and two phone interviews. By the time I hit my 4th year of unemployment, I basically just stopped looking. After a while, you wonder if anyone even looks at your resume when there is a gap in employment. You get more feedback from forums like these than you do from recruiters or employers.I've applied for many jobs in the last three months; so many that I've lost track of who I have and haven't applied to ... I have only received three calls for interviews. I've been passed up twice for lack of working experience (which brings me to a major question I'm sure many share; Where do I get the experience required if no jobs are willing to hire without such working experience?) in a field and once I passed because it was a high stake sales position with literally no training.What's most frustrating are the relentless emails I get thirty seconds after I press submit: "We are glad you took the time to apply for our position, but we have decided after review of your application we aren't in need of your expertise"Jobless in Grapevine, Texas said:?I've stopped looking... I have a BA and MBA... 5 yrs exp in sales, 4 1/2 years exp in?insurance?underwriting and operations, 5 1/2 years exp in fund?accounting?with supervisory exp... I've applied for for over 500 positions over a 3 year period. It's really not that many when you think about it but I've had only one face to face interview and two phone interviews. By the time I hit my 4th year of unemployment, I basically just stopped looking. After a while, you wonder if anyone even looks at your resume when there is a gap in employment. You get more feedback from forums like these than you do from recruiters or employers.You're like me. Probably more experienced and educated than the people interviewing you.?Had one very bad interview today. Woman has no clue what my job is really about. But it's her job to interview. So she tries to pretend she knows things, but she was so far off base.?She told me they would not hire anyone?full time, because that's how it's done now.?Basically said she wanted someone who could do the work of 2 people.But no set hours.I know every day, more and more, I need to be working for myself. These managers are just a hinderance.Burt Lange in middletown, New York said:?people who have jobs are so optimistic, unrealistic, and somewhat delusional when it comes to job searching advice.when they become unemployed what a shock they will get of how things really are.It was a shock to me. I was completely oblivious to how things were done and I think most people are until they get laid off.Burt Lange in middletown, New York said:?people who have jobs are so optimistic, unrealistic, and somewhat delusional when it comes to job searching advice.when they become unemployed what a shock they will get of how things really are.10 years ago it was so easy to get a job if you quit yours. Usually within 2 weeks you would find a job quickly. Like the?bank?for example the place I was working out shutdown and I walked into the bank simply to get an application and they basically hired me right there before even filling the app out and I was dressed in blue jeans too. About 7 years ago these companies started using that dumb software. The only advantage about online is you can browse for jobs easier. 10 years ago you had a good shot at someone actually reading your application. Now chances are no human is even seeing it.Ruby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada said:?It was a shock to me. I was completely oblivious to how things were done and I think most people are until they get laid off.employers think that if they give applicants more tests, more interviews, more in depth background checks, demand more job requirements that they will get a top producing performer who can do the task of 3 people. i can do 2 interviews maybe 3 tops.Average?HR?Guy in Minnesota said:?The EEOC has an unbelievable amount of influence on the whole applicant process, and is a major reason why so many companies are going to in-depth?HRIS?systems… when the EEOC comes calling, they need to make sure they can answer, or it’s a huge fine. It’s worse if you’re applying to a?government?contractor (which, in the eyes of the EEOC, a company is if any single part of the?business?does?contract?or subcontract work for the government... so if you’re part of a 100,000 person company with a division of 10 people that sells green pants to the government, guess what? The whole company is now a government contractor).Affirmative Action is reverse discrimination. Everyone knows it.?If skin color (and that's not really the true basis of race) doesn't matter, then the real COMPETENT person should be hired. But that's not happening. It's all about skin color. If anyone ever thought it was about equality, it's not, it's just one group vs another.xboxer in Cactus, Arizona said:?Affirmative Action is reverse discrimination. Everyone knows it.?If skin color (and that's not really the true basis of race) doesn't matter, then the real COMPETENT person should be hired. But that's not happening. It's all about skin color. If anyone ever thought it was about equality, it's not, it's just one group vs another.Affirmative Action itself is discriminatory / systematic racism; the assumption being that those 'helped' aren't good enough on their own.xboxer in Cactus, Arizona said:?But if you go to an employer, they tell you to apply online. How are you going to present yourself if they don't talk to you??This is a problem for everyone now.Also, working free can be a bad idea. If they can get a free employee, when you ask for money, they will just look for another free employee.True. Also in?general?there are even less jobs the last month online. Even craigslist has really dried up. I'm finding really nothing that matches me or that would hire me. I'm looking even for just part-time right now until I decide what?business?to try and start maybe. I don't see being full-time employed at a stable job. The jobs are just too violate now and?fire?you for anything because 5 more people waiting for the same job.I had a few chances at part-time jobs last fall but opted out wanting full-time. Should have taken the part-time jobs.Jobless in Fort Worth, Texas said:?[QUOTE who="Truthfully... I don't know. I make some cash here and there helping friends and family but it's nothing that my family can really live off. I've gotten by off what I use to have in retirement accounts as well as savings, etc. and drastically cut spending by moving in with family but that's not going to last. I am fortunate in that I have been able to fall back on family but I really don't want to live like this. I'm only 42 and never thought that someone with my?education?and experience could be this... well... to put it nicely, left with few options. At this point, I don't think I will ever be able to retire if I land another job or start my own?business?.Sounds like we have a lot in common. I did the BA and MBA because everyone told me that with both of them I would have the education I needed to have a long term sucessfull career. Well it doesn't seem to have worked out that away. I guess in a way I'm lucky that I'm single and have no?children?so I don't have to be concerned about providing for others. Being single is also a catch-22 because when I am unemployed then I don't have a spouse's income to fall back on.The majority of people that I know, that are also in their 40's, who lost their jobs have had to either make a major career change or start their own business. One guy went from managing several constructions sites before he was laid off to getting his nursing degree and is now making good money as a nurse. Also know a couple of people who were laid off and then went back to school and got their teaching license and are now teaching.As these people have told me that when you are over 40 either got to make a career change where the age and past work history will not hurt your opportunities to get a job or either start your own business and hope it is sucessful.Rvgirl42 in Saint Louis, Missouri said:?Oh God, I knew some republican would start this. It's not going to change anything. Bush started this recession and we are still suffering from it. Things have improved under Obama but if we get another Republican we go back down again. No thanks.Honestly, I used to be a Democrat until Obamacare came along. It's done absolutely nothing for me except make my health insurance a lot more expensive. Under Obamacare, my premiums have, more or less, doubled. Not only do I pay more on the individual market for major medical, but I also pay more for dental and vision. This makes it 10 times more harder for me to afford health insurance, especially when I'm unemployed. I've tried applying for a subsidy the last 2 years, but have had nothing but problems with the federal Marketplace. This year, I spent $20 with the USPS to overnight documentation they asked for so they could verify income and give me a $190 a month subsidy. They ended up losing all of my paperwork (paperwork which had my birthday, SSN and other sensitive information on it that could be used in identity theft). Because they lost my paperwork, I wasn't able to get that subsidy. Granted, I could've resent everything, but that would've been at my expense and, quite frankly, I shouldn't have had to do that in wake of their incompetence.Bush may've started it, but Obama hasn't really done anything to bring us out of a recession. At least not that I can see.Quite frankly, the Democrats have been doing a bang up job pandering to everyone out there except the average white, middle-class working American like myself that it's really pissed me off. I feel like the Democrats have left me and people like me on the curb. The party has really changed over the last 10 to 20 years and if you're not in a protected class they pander to, you may as well forget it in terms of them doing anything that benefits you.I'll NEVER vote Democratic every again.As someone in this demographic of college graduates competing for low wage jobs intermittently, I absolutely remember being told in high school that earning a college degree increased my future earnings and career prospects at least three times more than high school graduates. I was told to make the investment, accept any debts, because the job prospects would be plentiful, and that my expected salary would be acceptable enough to cover the monthly payments of any student loans, and still be able to afford modest rent, a car, and be able to not struggle the way the generation without college degrees did.Wow were they wrong or what!I think that the people who get ahead and become successful at life have more determination, talent, and work the hardest no matter what kind of job it is. I see people coming out of high school and into trade school learning practical skills that have always been in demand, and they're becoming managers at their once low wage jobs, they are paying their bills and have a car and experiencing life. Meanwhile, I, for example, am stuck paying debts for a degree I'm not even using in anything, and in poverty breaking butts and elbows to be someone's receptionist to afford going to trade school to learn what I should've learned in the first place straight out of high school - something immediately in demand that will make me financially stable.So its value depends on the decisions and intent of each individual. College was never meant to be a factory for creating workers, but thinkers. So the advice of my former counselors was misinformed. Trade schools, however, will make many fine, hard workers with practical knowledge for everyday things that need pros to get them done.Our country has economic cycles and it's unfortunate it took a downturn under Bush's watch, as we had a really good economy under President Bill Clinton. However, Obama has done absolutely nothing in the 8 years he's been in office to bring us out of a recession. AGAIN: People don't want to talk about the Democrats, Obama and their failed attempts at stimulus packages and whatnot to get this country out of a recession and back on track economically. Nor do they want to hold Democrats and Obama accountable for certain failures like they should. Obama's been in office for 8 years. What has he done to get us out of a recession? What has he done to successfully create millions of REAL jobs? (And I'm talking about full-time jobs that pay well and have benefits.) What has he done to really help the average hardworking Americans of this country?Honestly, I don't know why people can't or won't hear what Trump and Cruz have to say as intelligent compared to what the Democrats are saying.Hillary is grossly out of touch as evidenced by her response to the woman in Powell, OH concerning Obamacare and he response was totally unhelpful to the woman who probably is already paying for the cheapest health insurance she can afford to pay for which is STILL causing her to struggle financially.Sanders just talks about free this and free that. He wants to give everything away for free. Heck, why not just give the whole dang country away for free.Originally Posted by?MetroWord?I have been tasked with finding some potential candidates for internship positions for this summer. I'll probably be the one overseeing them.Here's the thing. We're looking for the best students where we can train them from beginning and if the prove themselves they will be hired on as full time engineers-in-training.?The internship positions will pay $20/hour for full time over the summer. Each intern will be assigned a company car to take home. Gas paid for.I thought what better place to seek out good candidates than my old professors? So, I paid my old school a visit and talked with 4 professors. I composed an email detailing the internship and what we are looking for for them to forward to their students.That was last week.So far, I have only gotten emails and resumes from foreign students that are staying here on a limited basis. I have interviewed them over the phone and so far each one has said he/she will go back to his/her home country after graduation.I made it very clearly in my email to be forwarded that the interns will be evaluated and offered permanent solution straight out of college based on performance.What happened? Where are all the American students? Is $20/hour + company car + company gas credit card not good enough?Well, I work in a profession that can be high paying and I'm almost 4 years out of grad school (and I've been working that entire time). I applied to an internship program anyway (for the experience and skills that I would learn). Not only was I not accepted into the program, but they didn't even let me know. I left them messages and they never called me back. Then, when I finally got a hold of them, they told me: "If you were accepted, you would have already known. You should have gotten an answer either way. But I guess you didn't. Oh well."Absolutely disgusting. Luckily, I lined up a job anyway just in case.If you wonder why workers/employees are so crappy these days and why you can't get anybody to fill your positions, just look in the mirror. Employers are terrible and treat people like dirt.Originally Posted by?eyeb?What makes you think there is a bubble?At most, colleges would restructure last year or two so degree programs include hands on experience... or the students take responsibility for their own future and get it on own. "Wet labs" not being experience... there is little application to them beyond the end of the class hour.There is indeed a bubble when entry level jobs demand 2-3 years of experience and the pay does not reflect the amount of years required.?My crap temp job wanted a minimum of year of experience and paid $17 bucks per hour. To do elementary formulation blends and thermosetting resins. When I was doing my job search in Atlanta I either got crap temp jobs paying $15-20 per hour with no benefits or highly specialized chemist positions asking for 5 years of experience in food science, paint formulations or something ridiculous that a recent college grad could not meet.?Analytical chemist positions at coca-cola wants 5 years of experience analyzing beverage batches on HPLC, GC-MS, and UV-Vis. Even if you had prior industry experience with HPLC, GC-MS, and UV-Vis it wouldn't be enough because you never worked with beverage formulations and batches.Big chemical companies treat generic chemistry and biology grade like they are retarded and can't learn how to analyze their samples or products on analytical instruments unless they have done it 5 years already.Luckily I found the pharmacetuicals company I work for that only asked for 0-2 years of experience in any R&D or industrial lab. They taught and trained me how to extract and separate transdermal patches and analyze them on HPLC and GC-MS without demanding a ton of experience in the industry already. They also started me out at a reasonable salary ($50k not great but doable) and offered me full benefits.?There are very few chemical and pharmacetuical companies out there that will train new graduates and offer a respectable salary with out demanding 3 years of experience at a minimum doing that exact type of work and these companies are often in small towns not in the big cities were everyone wants to live.If college grads have to put up with this they will be better off joining the police academy and get a starting salary of $50k after training. At least a career in law enforcement they take the time to train you, it doesn't require exspensive college, and it pays on par with what most entry level white collar jobs pay.I've seen adds that don't just want experience with analytical techniques, they want experience with specific intruments (Water's, Agilent) and Software (Chemstation, Masshunter Chromeleon), and even specific analysis like (USP 467, EPA 524.2).A lot of the ads I've seen are just ridiculous and the application and hiring processes are even more ridiculous because when they finally find the unicorn they are looking for they let HR jerk them around.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?I've seen adds that don't just want experience with analytical techniques, they want experience with specific intruments (Water's, Agilent) and Software (Chemstation, Masshunter Chromeleon), and even specific analysis like (USP 467, EPA 524.2).A lot of the ads I've seen are just ridiculous and the application and hiring processes are even more ridiculous because when they finally find the unicorn they are looking for they let HR jerk them around.Are kidding me? I work with a waters HPLC by alliance and the software we use is empower so if apply to a company that wants someone who has used a HPLC by agilent and software by chemstation my experience is useless to them. That is insane. That is like saying a construction worker doesn't know how to use a power drill made by black and decker because they used a power drill made by craftsman on their old job.We are becoming a low wage service economy that is just the way it is. If your in tech or some trades then temp or contract work can pays real well. Or if your in a niche that is specialized. Uncle is a power plant worker ton of skills. He retired been working as a contractor. Makes 50 bucks an hour or more free housing you name it. Works months at a time even gets over time. They more or less stop training guys years ago. He has got the skills they need so they pay him whatever. Everybody else it is nickels and dimes doing temp and contract work. Over 60% of the new jobs created in this recovery if you want to call it that are low wage. The BLS reports I have seen bear this out. The next ten years growth areas will be home health aids fast food retail you get the idea. Like 7 out ten jobs areas of growth are in low wage jobs There are a boatload of new trade deals on deck. Add in a whole new groups of more visa workers. There are whole groups of workers who make good money now. But 5 to ten years from now their wages will be dropping too. That temp part time contract unpaid or low paid intern that is the future. It is a large part of the new economy. And it will get much bigger over time.Job hunters, how many of you out there even bother to submit a cover letter? How many of you don't?Why or why not?The vast majority of the time, I just submit my resume or fill out some application and move on. It's way too troublesome IMO and it barely increases my chance, unless its rather mandatory or a great position that I got a decent shot at. I prefer to ditch the cover letter, submit my resume and move on searching elsewhere.I'm not a job hunter but rather am interviewing to fill three positions, and I haven't seen a single cover letter since our search began a few months ago.For entry level jobs, no, I have not. For management jobs, for every one. Make sure you read the posting carefully because some employers want a cover letter.I absolutely include a cover letter, always have. My cover letter has been developed over the years and is very strong. It's short but includes information I want to convey that a resume cannot and most of all, the tone of the letter is warm and personable while still businesslike. I think a cover letter is very important and has gotten me interviews. It can be used to distinguish yourself.?Write one, have amny people read it and tell you how it makes them feel. If they say "good", it's a winner.?Best of luck.Guess I just got lucky, but I've never written a cover letter in my life and I've never needed one.I have only included cover letters when it was mentioned in the job listing, or when I was sending unsolicited resumes. If I am responding to a job listing, and the listing doesn't request one, I don't send one.I'm not a job hunter anymore (found a job a couple months ago), but I very RARELY sent out cover letters. I guess I felt it was a very time consuming process which yieled very little return for me. Out of all of the jobs that I've worked since I graduated from college (2003), I never wrote a cover letter for any of them. Also, when I was recently looking for a job, none of the interviews that I got were from positions where I submitted a cover letter.I will submit a cover letter if the position has me emailing my resume to a specific person (i.e. if your interested, please email your resume to?johndoe@). But most of the positions that I applied to had me entering my info into an applicant tracking system (i.e. Taleo, ICIMS). I didn't see the point of putting all this effort into tailoring a cover letter to a specific position/company when the odds were, human eyes weren't even going to see it.I know everyone's experience is different and some people are very successful using cover letters (my wife swears by them), but that hasn't been the case for me.If it was a really low level job, probably not. If it was higher end, more detailed, or something I really wanted, I'd obviously go that extra mile.I read a survey a while back and only ~15% of HR/hiring managers even read cover letters at all and most of them just skim through them. I believe it is mostly a waste of time that will probably eventually go the way of objective statements.Originally Posted by?greatblueheron?Excellent reply.?Cover letters are expected. Do them.Cover letters are not always expected and are often about as relevant as your high school education.Take the below "example cover letter" found using google.Quote:I am writing in reply to the classified ad seeking to fill the position of Graduate Student Adviser for the Master of Arts in Liberal Studies degree program.(Obviously, that's why you filled out the online application and why it came to me as the hiring manager)I have been awarded the degree of Master of Arts from XXXX?(Yes I can read your resume)?so I understand the need for academic advisement and program planning in a nontraditional higher education environment.(So someone applying for a student advisor role claims to understand the importance of advising student? Meaningless.)?I have also experienced, first-hand, the comforting effect of being able to contact an adviser who genuinely cares for the success of students.(You and everyone else who's gone to college. This is just BS fluff)During my career as an electrician I was elected Chairman of the Executive Board which sat as the union’s representatives to the apprenticeship advisory board.(Again, I know, it's on your resume)?In this capacity I was able to be an effective advisor to apprentices who were experiencing scholastic problems which threatened their future in the industry; especially to older apprentices who were seeking a career change and had problems adjusting to the obligations of work, school and family life.(ONE sentence that provided additional depth, but half of it is just rambling)I believe my educational background in nontraditional post-graduate education and my work related duties of counseling and advising students enrolled in learning programs qualifies me for consideration for the position of Graduate Student Advisor.(I don't care if you think you're qualified, the question is do I think you're qualified)?I look forward to discussing how my skills can be of value to XXX as it prepares to move into the new millennium.(So basically you're hoping for an interview as a result of sending in an application for a position? Again, it's obvious)There is almost nothing beneficial or insightful provided by the typical cover letter. The only time it's worth anything is when your resume is such garbage that it can't speak for itself, and in that case, you need to work on your resume, not your cover letter.Originally Posted by?eureka1?If there is nothing interesting or insightful about your cover letter, tear it up and start over. You're missing a golden opportunity to stand out from the crowd. I'm retired and will never apply for another job but a cover letter is a good chance to show your stuff.The online application has negated the need for most cover letters.Cover letters are an interesting topic.?On one hand, traditionally, they are supposed to be written tailored to every application.?On the other hand, I've read so many HR people say resumes go into a database, they do a key word search, and the cover letters are never read.Always, from entry level to management positions. From the hiring side, I also favored applicants with cover letters.I'm the hiring manager for a lot of positions in my organization. I get several hundred resumes for every opening. My HR director screens (yes, using a search engine for key terms) and gives me three email folders--yes, maybe, no. I scan the yes and maybe folders looking for the skills I want. If I don't see them, I move on. I don't probe deeply into your resume. A brief cover letter telling me what are your relevant skills makes me stop and look harder at your resume--at that point, I will probe. A long cover letter is as bad as no cover letter. Don't make me dig for the clues that you might be qualified. I don't have time for that.What I'm saying is that you can get past HR without a cover letter. But you won't clear the hiring manager without one. But don't make the cover letter into a dissertation. A couple of well-focused sentences will do.Nobody wants to train nobody these days because there are too many laid off people out there or it's too expensive for them. I'm sure lots of people want to be maintenance techs or software developers but there is very little entry level opportunity in those fields. When the current field of people die off or retire employers will be forced to train people. No way out of it.College is the new high school. Anyone can get a college degree.So the labor market is flooded with college grads. Which is great news for employers. They can have their way with you!?I have Aspergers and it makes getting and keeping a job very difficult. I've been laid off from multiple jobs because I "Wasn't a good fit" and have a new job that perhaps naturally, I worry about the same thing happening. I perform the job well I believe as I'm starting to understand how to perform the basics of the job and have been complimented about my work ethic (I've been arriving 45-60 minutes and beginning work early every day). However, getting along and forming relationships with people in the office I believe is important to keeping a job. My new job even has a section on the employee evaluation form regarding how one gets along with others/fits into the office culture.I have loads of trouble developing relationships with people, even when I really want it. I have developed a lot of self-doubt from past job experiences to where I think everyone thinks I'm weird and/or don't like me to the point that it becomes something of a self-fulfilling prophecy when I lose the job due to not fitting in.?My immediate supervisor I already feel doesn't particularly like me and if she doesn't like me, what hope do I have? The supervisor of the entire department I think does like me but also doesn't work with or see me on a regular basis like my actual supervisor. I could be projecting here as well based on the fact that the overall supervisor is involved with a charity for people with disabilities and therefore maybe more understanding.?I openly discussed my condition during the interview with her while I did not in my first interview with a person from HR, an employee (who is in the cubicle next to me now and too intimidating for me to talk to much because she's around my age I would guess and attractive) and my immediate supervisor. I oftentimes feel suicidal due to the loneliness that comes with Asperger's and therapy hasn't helped in the years I've been doing it. Even medicine+therapy doesn't seem to help when it comes to my negative outlook. Being partially deaf (no hearing in my right ear) doesn't help when it comes to being social. I also mentioned that during my interview with the overall supervisor because it would eventually come up or could during my job and I felt comfortable telling her because of her background.if you ain't in a wheel chair you ain't disabled seems to be the common view. i've noticed that people will try to get me into jobs that involve lots of standing even though my feet are screwed up. i can still lift weights and walk a good distance (around 4 miles in my new orthotics and shoes, about 8 in my old orthotics) and somehow, being able to walk for 2 hours means i can stand all day.?i don't think this has anything to with them not understanding. they understand just find. they just don't care. i listened to such people and went from being able to stand 8 hours a day every now and then in shoes, i couldn't do that every day, to being able to stand 1-2 hours tops in shoes now. and you know why? because i listened to idiots like these you're talking about. i ended up not feeling my toes for 4 months until about 3 weeks after i quit that job and now have permanently enlarged nerves in my feet to go along with my metatarsals being to close together.?now i'm dealing with the government and they keep trying to stick me into standing jobs or trying to have me labelled as something i'm not just so that they can blame their problems on that. actually, now they aren't even doing anything but wasting tax money sitting on their butts doing the most half assed jobs they can.?that's something i don't get, how do so many people who suck at their jobs get them? i never could understand that.?these people do not and will not care. to them you are merely an inconvenience or even a liar. you have to find a way to go around them and stay away from them. they will only bring stress and misery to your life.?and i think you are making a good step in doing that by typing here.?as to how to find a job when you have issues, especially sensory issues, i don't know. it's hard nowadays if you don't know anyone. the job market is far worse than the odumma admin and many of the news writers wish to admit. there are almost NO jobs out there for anyone lacking experience. there are engineers who are forced to do odd jobs just to get by since they can't find any real jobs with their skills.?and that's another problem. your parents grew up in an age when finding jobs was easy and when people could get into entry level positions that used their skills and would hone them and add to them. nowadays there is none of that. they want you to have experience from the get go even though you've got no way to get it.?so, get away from these people if you can. ignore them if you can't. some older people realize how hard it is to get a job nowadays. they realize that nowadays a basic labor job at something like MacDonalds pays NO WHERE NEAR what it paid in their day. I've heard older people with degrees talk about how they could work during the summer and have enough money from that alone to fund their year at college. now you could work for years at just such a job and not have enough to do anything with it.?upward mobility has almost been destroyed for those of us who aren't linked to wealthy people and who don't have some amazing skill that people value.?also, remember, even Nikola Tesla dug ditches at one point. many times people are just too stupid to see the value in others. and that's another problem....Chicago Suburbnite in Illinois said:?Honestly, I don't know why people can't or won't hear what Trump and Cruz have to say as intelligent compared to what the Democrats are saying.?I honestly haven't paid much attention to Cruz. As for Trump, I've listened to a number of his speeches. They have next to zero policy content. What he says is a mixture of whatever he thinks the crowd wants to hear that day, him claiming how great he is, and advertisements for Trump products or businesses. I'm paraphrasing here, but something like "We need to fix our infrastructure. I'm great at that. I build the best hotels! I'm building a new hotel right across from the White House!" It takes a *kind* of intelligence to be a good salesperson, but not the same kind of intelligence that it takes to be a good President.Riot in Massachusetts said:?As for Trump, I've listened to a number of his speeches. They have next to zero policy content. What he says is a mixture of whatever he thinks the crowd wants to hear that day, him claiming how great he is, and advertisements for Trump products or businesses.But isn't that what MOST politicians do? Hillary Clinton is doing it right now. She does a good job talking the talk about fixing Obamacare, but, in reality, doesn't go into how she would fix it or much else for that matter such as a broken immigration system, terrorism and securing our border with Mexico.And to be perfectly blunt here, if Trump or some other Republican candidate did all the crap Hillary Clinton has done and was being investigated by the FBI, the LIBERAL media would be all over it and calling for the Republican candidate to suspend his or her campaign and to drop out citing he or she was unfit to be POTUS.What I find amusing is that if Hillary Clinton does manage to get the nomination and even get as far as winning in the November election, she'll be the first person in history to do that while being under criminal investigation by the FBI.If Hillary does go unindicted, I can see how the FBI people who investigated her and many other federal government employees would be super pissed over it because if they did what she did, they'd end up losing their federal jobs over it. Why should Hillary come out of all this unscathed and, moreover, why would anyone want to vote for her let alone put her in the White House when she's clearly unfit for it?I hope all this comes out soon. I hope people start talking. I hope she gets indicted and I hope this is Watergate all over again. I want the Democratic party to add E-Mailgate to the History books.By the way, I just read an article that said 3.3 million jobs were created in the last 12 months.While that may be true, it'd be nice if some people acknowledged that these 3.3 so-called million jobs aren't REAL jobs. They're mostly part-time, short-term, temporary and seasonal jobs that are also low paying and have no benefits attached to them. People can't get by on those kinds of jobs. Those 3.3 million jobs are absolutely NOTHING to be proud of. If Obama wants to be proud of that, so be it. The man is delusional and grossly out-of-touch with reality.Honestly, another 4 or 8 more years of Hillary means nothing changes, especially where the economy, jobs and unemployment is concerned. I'm sure she'll make sure of that.Chicago Suburbnite in Illinois said:?But isn't that what MOST politicians do? Hillary Clinton is doing it right now. She does a good job talking the talk about fixing Obamacare, but, in reality, doesn't go into how she would fix it or much else for that matter such as a broken immigration system, terrorism and securing our border with Mexico.It's not the same. You don't see any other candidate on either side go out and say anything remotely like "I'm going to fix things, and it's going to be awesome, because I'm so awesome." (Not an actual quote, but you know Trump says things almost exactly like this.) Listen to anyone else and they give some semblance of planning, data, and solutions. You might not agree with everything they say, and you might even think they've read the situation incorrectly, but they aren't saying to just trust them, because they're the kind of person who wins at things.Riot in Massachusetts said:?It's not the same. You don't see any other candidate on either side go out and say anything remotely like "I'm going to fix things, and it's going to be awesome, because I'm so awesome." (Not an actual quote, but you know Trump says things almost exactly like this.)Obama certainly did when he ran for office. He was great at spouting off his change, which happened to be not-so-great after all.And FYI:Trump's told us how he's fixing the illegal problem: a wall. Trump's told us how he's fixing the immigration system and addressing terrorism within our own borders: TEMPORARILY halting immigration and TEMPORARILY banning Muslim entry into our country.Riot in Massachusetts said:?Listen to anyone else and they give some semblance of planning, data, and solutions. You might not agree with everything they say, and you might even think they've read the situation incorrectly, but they aren't saying to just trust them, because they're the kind of person who wins at things.I'm sorry, but I don't see any other Republican candidates talking about a wall or TEMPORARILY halting immigration and TEMPORARILY banning Muslim entry into our country. Maybe Cruz. He and Trump seem to agree about certain things and are, for the most part, on the same page.I'd love to see a Trump-Cruz ticket when this is all said and done.Jimmy Carter banned Iranians from coming to the U.S. during the Islamic Revolution's Iranian hostage crisis in which Islamists took over the country. Iranians were banned from entering the U.S. unless they opposed the Islamist regime or had a medical emergency. Carter even ordered 50,000 Iranian students in U.S. to report to immigration office with view to deporting those in violation of their visas and on December 27, 1979, the U.S. appeals court allowed for the deportation of Iranian students found in violation. The Attorney General had given all Iranian students one month to report to the local immigration office. Around 7,000 were found in violation of their visas. Around 15,000 Iranians were forced to leave the U.S. Meanwhile any Iranians entering the U.S. were forced to undergo secondary screening. Apparently barring people from a terrorist country is not against "our values" after all. It may even be "who we are". Either that or Carter was a racist monster just like Trump. (By the way, Carter was a Democrat and 8 U.S. Code § 1182 (inadmissible alien) was written in 1952, passed by a Democrat-controlled Congress, House and Senate, and signed into law by a Democrat president.) Just saying.Under 8 U.S. Code § 1182, Obama could ban Muslims from entering into the country for the safety and security of everyone and to fix a broken immigration system. But he chooses not to and, instead, accept all these Syrian refugees, some of which want to commit acts of terror because they're Jihadists posing as a refugee.Once we entered into a recession in 2007, we never really left it. The economy has become stagnant.My one uncle used to be employed in IT. A few years after the recession began, he was laid off. Prior to being laid off, he was sent to Canada to train his replacements, which he absolutely hated doing.?Prior to his lay off, I can remember all his snide remarks and comments about no excuse not to be employed when I was unemployed. He used to get on my nerves more often than not.He quickly changed what was coming out of his mouth once he was laid off and having trouble finding another job in IT.My one uncle now works for Hunting Learning Center as a math tutor. He also does ACT and SAT math test prep. He makes around $12 an hour, which is a far cry from what he used to make in IT as a programmer. Many of his former co-workers were also relegated to part-time, low paying jobs because it's the best they could do if they wanted to stay working.Chicago Suburbnite in Illinois said:?My one uncle used to be employed in IT. A few years after the recession began, he was laid off. Prior to being laid off, he was sent to Canada to train his replacements, which he absolutely hated doing.?Prior to his lay off, I can remember all his snide remarks and comments about no excuse not to be employed when I was unemployed. He used to get on my nerves more often than not.He quickly changed what was coming out of his mouth once he was laid off and having trouble finding another job in IT.My one uncle now works for Hunting Learning Center as a math tutor. He also does ACT and SAT math test prep. He makes around $12 an hour, which is a far cry from what he used to make in IT as a programmer. Many of his former co-workers were also relegated to part-time, low paying jobs because it's the best they could do if they wanted to stay working.So much for IT being a "safe" and "practical" field... All that means nowadays is more opportunities for visa workers and offshoring.Chicago Suburbnite in Illinois said:?My one uncle now works for Hunting Learning Center as a math tutor. He also does ACT and SAT math test prep. He makes around $12 an hour, which is a far cry from what he used to make in IT as a programmer. Many of his former co-workers were also relegated to part-time, low paying jobs because it's the best they could do if they wanted to stay working.Lot of ex-IT people here in Vegas now working as Blackjack dealers. If you are young you can work as a barmaid. If you are old, there is housekeeping for you.When it [Obamacare] was first implemented I fell through the cracks as I usually do for these sort of things. I made too little to qualify for a credit. The cheapest I could fine was approx $200 a month for a catastrophic plan. I was passed off to Medicaid but made too much and was too healthy to qualify for Medicaid.Applying at the marketplace is a pain for individuals who are working temp or have part-time shift jobs because you have make a ballpark guess what you'll be earning by the end of the year.I'm glad it worked for other people but please remember that it back fired on and ignored some people before you sign it's praises.It's funny how people promote ACA, but forget about the ones that suffer.I've seen more people suffer and have income problems than I've ever cared to see. "Affordable" should never been used. Hard workers, trying to take care of themselves and their families, are now broken, in debt, and have a struggling relationship. One minor to major setback could land them into serious debt. I thought Obamacare was supposed to fix all that. I think it's simply made things worse.Look, I completely understand about how we need everyone covered because it hurts our economy, but the way the ACA has destroyed peoples lives, is not even funny. Let us hurt the American people who are struggling even more by introducing a fine if they do not have insurance. Welcome to debt, and even more debt, and next year you'll be in even more debt if you don't get insurance. Good luck with that considering how high premiums are spiking from year to year. We're not talking small increases of 5 or 10%. We're talking huge increases of 20 and 30% and, in some cases, 40% or more. Yes, rates rise from year to year, but they never rose quite like this prior to Obamacare taking effect.I've seen my paychecks in the past, as well as that of my family and friends, reduced to almost nothing because I and they had to pay a lot more for insurance. Insurance we never use because co-pays and deductibles are insanely high. It's enough just trying to pay for it and have it so you don't get penalized for not having it.I will never understand why Obama turned his back on the very coalition that elected him and pushed this garbage on us instead. If you wanted to cover previously un-insurable patients, just find a way to subsidize or bump them into Medicaid WITHOUT affecting everyone else in the process. There was no need to take a pound of flesh from the already over burdened middle class.I find it incredible there's still support for the ACA. The Affordable Care Act is simply NOT affordable. Welcome to the reality of ObamacarePeople shouldn't pretend Obamacare is anything other than a catastrophic insurance policy that they're being forced to pay 6 times the price for so some baby boomer who ate their way to diabetes can afford the property taxes on their vacation condo. Enough said.You cant get a job because there are cheap workers here from foreign countries taking those jobs that the retirees leave open.Originally Posted by?MongooseHugger?How do we get in "at the bottom"? There is competition even there, fiercer than ever I've heard. And even some of the internships and normally lower level stuff is starting to require years of experience. Plus, it's not that we're entitled, it's just that when we have the same job prospects that we had BEFORE or DURING college as we do AFTER, i.e. the lower wage jobs, we wonder why we spent all those thousands on the degrees that everyone said we need to have to do well.?I agree OP I completely agree. The bottom, the "foot in the door", the climb "your way up from the basement" type position can be very hard to get because even those positions have gatekeepers. And I think when people say "you have to be willing to start from the bottom, you have to be willing to take the entry level job" - I think they forget or don't understand that even getting the entry level job can be a challenge when it is gated behind 2-3 years of experience and there are more applicants than there are openings. The issue is not (at least I hope it is not) " I only want to work as X and I will apply for nothing else" , the issue is more " I am applying for the entry level , the bottom of the barrel and I can't even get that".Sadly OP, the only solution I know is to keep applying, keep looking. Look for the more general and jobs that are a bit more lax when it comes to requirements.Originally Posted by?ashpelham?More and more, it's the having to know someone on the inside. If you interview well and have a great resume, that will get you moving.?Just being a good interview and good skills STILL won't be enough.Nor is having 20-25 years of experience (5 within the company), a degree, several letters of recommendation?from folks within the company, acquired continuing education AND being able to cross-work (fill in within several departments). That-- on top of being fluent in Spanish and ASL.?I'm a veterinary worker (receptionist, surgical and lab technician, and kennel... I can do it all). But I keep getting beat out by?much?younger candidates. When you are 50+, you could be a miracle worker and cure cancer and even raise dead pets from the grave-- and you will STILL be passed over for the opening. You'll just be called "overqualified".Right now, I can even get ON the ladder anymore, much less climb it.?Originally Posted by?ohhwanderlust?This is a major reason I'm voting for Bernie Sanders. He is the only candidate who's demonstrated any interest in protecting Americans' jobs.Quote:Originally Posted by?Uncle Bully?No he's not. Trump has as well. It's a big reason he wants to limit illegal immigration and H1B programs.Quote:Originally Posted by?Stagemomma?If you don't want immigrants to work in the USA, don't patronize businesses that hire them.Exactly right, Stagemomma!Both red and blue pols have blood on their hands with this one. Voting won't change this! We The People are the only ones who can change this. Vote with your wallet, and with your feet. Your ballot is impotent.?Originally Posted by?Stagemomma?Where are you seeing these immigrants at work? I live in a city with a high immigrant population. They do manual labor (construction, groundskeeping) or janitorial work or work for Walmart. They don't work in fast food, they don't fix my car, they don't work at the regular grocery stores. With the exception of the medical field, and IT, They certainly aren't doing higher end work that requires a degree.If you took the immigrants out of IT and the hospitals, they would cease to function. There just aren't enough native americans willing to do the work.If you don't want immigrants to work in the USA, don't patronize businesses that hire them.When they day comes that these immigrants replace blue collar workers abroad, then the country will have riots. Companies don't dare to eliminate non-skilled labor yet because it would cause chaos and discontent with the largest % of the population and riots happen. The reason the govt pay out food stamps and welfare checks is to keep the less fortunate away from crime.For high skill work, a typical college educated financial analyst, bio-med engineer, or IT worker could be making from $60k-200k and now they are being replaced by immigrant worker making only 1/4 of that. You probably don't care but these are the people who are working in payroll or the bank making sure your loans are processed or credit card bills are calculated correctly or the medicine the company is making is safe and meets standards.What I've seen is tons of job centers are bringing in hundreds and thousands of immigrant worker on work visas to perform office work. Usually these job sites are offsite and not connected to the main corporate HQ and located at some hub nearby transportation to make it easier immigrants to come by plane and get here.The company has to post the salary offered to H1Bs. Based on the postings I've seen, yes, the compensation is lower than how much a similarly qualified American would demand. Not by a humongous amount, but a significant percentage less.Originally Posted by?andywire?If it weren't for immigrants, many key industries in America would crumble. Americans avoid many of the jobs that immigrants are known to gravitate towards.Not true at all.Who do you think did (and still does) those jobs before we got flooded with both legal and illegal immigrants? Americans did them. Once both legal and illegal immigrants became a dime a dozen, sleazy employers quickly figured out that they could hire them and pay them far less than they pay Americans. They also knew that they could exploit illegal aliens by not providing safe working conditions or benefits.Many honest people who worked in the construction industries have lost their livelihoods due to illegal immigration. They found that they couldn't compete with sleazy companies who hired illegals and paid under the table.?For example, if you pay attention, you will see Americans cleaning hotel rooms---even in immigrant-heavy cities. If you peeked into the back of the house in restaurants, you will see Americans working there. In fact, for example, there is a chain restaurant conglomerate that uses E-verify. They have no problems finding both Americans and legal immigrants to take their jobs.Any business that knowingly hires illegal aliens or caters to them is a diseased business that needs to die.Originally Posted by?bUU?The company has to post the salary offered to H1Bs. Based on the postings I've seen, yes, the compensation is lower than how much a similarly qualified American would demand. Not by a humongous amount, but a significant percentage less.Not to mention they are basically hiring slaves.The worker doesn't like working 80 hours?Tough. Go back to India.That's the main reason employers like this. It removes a competitive work environment because the H1B holder HAS to work for that employer or return home.The IT world has a history of this. Just look at the collusion that went on between the big tech companies in Silicon Valley where they wouldn't hire each others workers.Originally Posted by?davenj08?1/4th? Really?!? Unless you are referring to what outsourced workers get paid in their home countries, your numbers are completely bogus. Where did you find an immigrant senior IT worker making 50k in US? Most fresh off the boat IT workers make far more than 50k on their first assignment. There is a fair chance a new H1B visa worker is paid 10-20% below the market rate but after 3-4 years of work in the US, they get paid exactly the same as their American counterparts.Yes, that's right. Through many of these corrupt agencies that brought immigrants here. Workers do not get paid directly. Companies pay these agencies directly since they sponsor the H1B1 worker to be here and they pay the workers much less than what the hiring company pays.?Quote:Originally Posted by?davenj08?Come by plane and work there? They commute by plane, everyday? That almost sounds like science fiction!??I have been working with Fortune 100 companies for the past 10+ years and am yet to see or hear of any company setting up a hub just for immigrant workers. Yes, if you are talking about companies creating hubs far away from the HQ for back-office work, that is true, but that is for all back-office workers (i.e. HR, IT, accounting, payroll, operations), not just for immigrants.?Again, these immigrants are brought over here by the hiring agencies that applied for their work visas. They get a stipend for living expenses and are paid much less than Americans. When their work visas expires they are rotated out and new replacements are brought in. So, there is a revolving door for them too.Quote:Originally Posted by?davenj08?The total H1B visa quota for a year is 65,000. There is no way corporations can bring in "hundreds of thousands" of immigrant workers on work visa and make them work in transportation-connected-hubs.This does not include immigrants over-staying on tourist visas as many employment agencies retains positions within a company and constantly rotate workers. Once their tourist visa expires, they are taken off site and they assign new worker to the job site for the same positions.As an IT Security consultant, I review account changes every month and I've seen immigrant workers being on-boarded and off-boarded almost weekly and they are simply rotating people for the same positions.I am reporting directly what I've seen and know Americans who are displaced by immigrant workers.Originally Posted by?andywire?Key word being "before". Welcome to 2016. Demographics aren't on our side.Meaning, what, exactly? That we should roll over, play dead and wave the white flag of surrender when it comes to illegals? Should we just throw open the borders? Are you saying that you are okay when it comes to Americans either seeing their wages depressed or being displaced by illegals? Besides, if your comment was referencing Hispanics, there is no such race as Hispanic. Hispanics range from dark-skinned blacks to fair-skinned blonde-haired and blue-eyed.Or, are you saying that Americans should give up trying for those jobs and just cede them to illegals? If so, what do you expect those Americans to do for a living?Originally Posted by?hackwriter?They don't hate the American worker, but somewhere along the line the idea that corporations have a responsibility also to their employees and the public got lost. Now it's all about satisfying Wall Street analysts from quarter to quarter.?If a company's 3rd quarter profits are up 45% from last year (which sounds great, right?), but Wall Street analysts expected a 50% rise, the stock price drops like a stone.Take into account also how much executive compensation is given in stock and stock options now (so that big salary numbers that outraged the public are smaller) and execs are now motivated to think SOLELY in terms of the stock price.Employees are now regarded solely as a cost center. There was a time when IT and other knowledge work was different, but now it isn't. So it is a race to the bottom -- to the cheapest country. The problem with this is it adds additional overhead.For example: The work that I do involves using a data entry screen builder. Sometimes I need a programmer to do something the tool can't do. I used to be able to walk over to my programmer, or call him/her, and explain what I needed. If s/he needed clarification, we could talk again. Now that a lot of the work has been outsourced to companies that in turn offshore, I have to talk to my US contact at the outsourcer, who then talks to the manager in India, who then talks to the programmer who is also in India. I have NO direct contact with the programmer, and the programmer is basically a coder who works to spec and doesn't ask questions. And this is supposed to save money?Similarly, as an IT Security Consultant. I was brought in to help ensure compliance and best practices are followed at a financial firm.?The more I look and learned about the company's IT structure the less comfortable I am with their security practices. American IT workers are now just coordinators, they coordinate directions to these overseas or recruiters. They tell them what kind of work they need and what the budget is and they these agencies goes out and finds someone. Yes, the pay is 75% or less than what an American makes the agencies eats up 30-50% of the rate and the rest goes to the worker.When they on-board somebody remotely, this is where I have an issue with how sensitive the work is that they're doing. Many times they have access to client data or systems that can gain access to sensitive data and the American IT Workers are too clueless of the work involved so there's no security check to ensure that the contract worker doesn't steal data.The more problem I pinpointed, the more higher ups worried but the middle managers get angry that the IT Workers below them aren't doing their jobs.?There's a huge disconnect between many levels of management on what the expectations are, adequate resources, and what to expect from contractors.Originally Posted by?hackwriter?They don't hate the American worker, but somewhere along the line the idea that corporations have a responsibility also to their employees and the public got lost. Now it's all about satisfying Wall Street analysts from quarter to quarter.?If a company's 3rd quarter profits are up 45% from last year (which sounds great, right?), but Wall Street analysts expected a 50% rise, the stock price drops like a stone.Take into account also how much executive compensation is given in stock and stock options now (so that big salary numbers that outraged the public are smaller) and execs are now motivated to think SOLELY in terms of the stock price.Employees are now regarded solely as a cost center. There was a time when IT and other knowledge work was different, but now it isn't. So it is a race to the bottom -- to the cheapest country. The problem with this is it adds additional overhead.For example: The work that I do involves using a data entry screen builder. Sometimes I need a programmer to do something the tool can't do. I used to be able to walk over to my programmer, or call him/her, and explain what I needed. If s/he needed clarification, we could talk again. Now that a lot of the work has been outsourced to companies that in turn offshore, I have to talk to my US contact at the outsourcer, who then talks to the manager in India, who then talks to the programmer who is also in India. I have NO direct contact with the programmer, and the programmer is basically a coder who works to spec and doesn't ask questions. And this is supposed to save money?Going back to the prior employer example I gave a few days ago, the role I was hired for paid between $50k-$60k, and the employees hired before me were promoted quickly, and the role was viewed as a feeder program. Today, the role is viewed as operations and as a cost center. Pay, as well as the quality of candidates being received, has gone down, and I'm sure everything is just being dumbed down starting from there.Avoid Applicant Tracking Systems at any cost if you are not a top employee. Those are made with the only purpose of rejecting candidates. Personally, I skip companies that use Taleo as they are impersonal and you will receive no reply or generic rejection emails. Moreover, you have to invest a large amount of your valuable time to register your profile for every company that uses this system. In some of those systems you must fill several repetitive information. The most inefficient-time consuming hiring system ever designed.Originally Posted by?Jorge ChemE?Avoid Applicant Tracking Systems at any cost if you are not a top employee. Those are made with the only purpose of rejecting candidates. Personally, I skip companies that use Taleo as they are impersonal and you will receive no reply or generic rejection emails. Moreover, you have to invest a large amount of your valuable time to register your profile for every company that uses this system. In some of those systems you must fill several repetitive information. The most inefficient-time consuming hiring system ever designed.Yea I know.?I've never met a single human who had anything positive to say about ATS - outside of HR. ATS is HR's wet dream. They ARE designed to screen certain types of people out. Whether it's age, unemployment gaps, certain addresses in some zip codes, certain schools, etc. With ATS, all the HR can just play on their iPads and on Facebook all day, while picking their friends for the "plum" jobs - because ATS just throws your resume in a black hole.Sent on Friday afternoon, Saturday 6 am you already get an automated rejection. And yea, you followed all the job hunter advice by rigging and playing around with the "keywords" and "format" like a good little job seeker (sheeple). So done with ATS.As a young person, I knew I had to start from the bottom.How can you start from the bottom if no one gave you a chance to start from the bottom?There is more of a?labor?industry in the US than there is the UK and other Europe countries.In Europe there is little outside of STEM and IT and white-collar besides retail. The?construction?and manufacturing industries there have been grim for decades and if you do get in you're doing insane quotas for less than base living in euros. I've actually seen it first-hand for years.I am not a smiley person. I will give you a nod and a closed mouth half smile, listen and help you--that is what comes naturally to me and is perfectly polite.I was in service jobs back in the day and was always criticized for not smiling. One place (Denny's) scored us on showing a minimum of 4 teeth from your top row of teeth, or boo hoo we would lose an additional $.02 raise on our $2 sub-minimum wage. (They had secret shoppers and the managers watching us. They were super militant about a lot of things--timing us on every single aspect of slinging hash and eggs.)?Today I went to the grocery store I always go to. I could tell they had gotten some sort of lecture about friendliness. The most introverted employees were forcing smiles. It was so awkward for them. Numerous employees came up to me randomly, and sort of intrusively, using the same exact greeting as each other.?Some companies make their employees answer the phone with silly things like, "It's a great day at XYZ Company!"I called a tech support line the other day, and each person I spoke to said, "Before we get started talking about your tech issue, how is your day going so far?"How do you feel about these sorts of things, from your perspective as a customer?Phony and I hate it.?I walk into a store and the employee sings out, "Welcome to ________ !"It just calls attention to me, which I hate.You can tell that they are forced to do it.I feel sorry for the employee.I don't like that kind of aggressive cheerful fakery. Just be polite. That's all.It has become so bad the other day I was told 'the doctor you need to see isn't very friendly, but he's good at what he does, are you comfortable with that'? WTH? I told them I didn't care about friendly as long as he was competent and professional. Priorities have gotten way out of whack any more.I had a job that went, in about five years time, from a place I looked forward to going to each day, to a place that just about made me want to jump off the nearest cliff. Toxic is one word, I just eventually labeled it bizarre. I took classes at the local community college towards something different, and that lessened the stress and made me feel that I was at least doing something towards getting out. And I eventually did, thank goodness. If a workplace has become toxic, start working on a plan B. Nothing can stress you out like having to get up every day and go into a situation that you cannot tolerate. This mainstream mantra "at least you have a job" is not true if it is harming your very quality of life.The worst, most horribly toxic job I ever had was the only job I left with notice. Strangely (or not) it was a company with a good reputation, known for paying fair wages and good benefits. Lots of turnover but since the position was call center/customer service, no surprise. I've done time in such settings and can deal. But from the get go- training was ridiculous. It lasted 8 weeks but much of the information (there was A LOT, probably should have been spread over a couple more weeks) was rushed to the point you couldn't hardly absorb it. There was a lot of pressure to get the trainees "on the floor" because staff shortages were so bad. Truly the worst was morale; it was by far the worst I'd ever seen. There was (is) very little upward mobility, some people were waiting to transfer "up" or just get off the weekend rotation for six plus YEARS. Meanwhile in training we were told how easy it was to transition to career roles within the company. Yeah right. It was one of many lies told during the hiring/training process.?After 2 weeks "on the floor" I just stopped going though I didn't have a job lined up. I couldn't handle the high level of emotionally stress accompanied by physical ailments (daily headaches, severe jaw pain- I presume from muscle tension, I've never had that before or since- etc). Luckily quickly landed an office job, with one of the best employers I've ever had. I took a 25% pay cut but it was completely worth it. I'd do call center work again but NEVER at that company, total nightmare.Vocational Rehabilitation is one of the worst agency to deal with and truly incompetent in helping people become educated and?employable.?What you should do is, send a letter (or e-mail) to the State Commissioner overseeing your local regional office. Tell the State Commission what your grievances are, about your poor treatment by this particular counselor, that you are disgusted with the way Vocational Rehabilitation is wasting taxpayer dollars and anything else you wish to add. You will get a better response from those in high management positions, not some small district office.?If you truly need vocational services, don't give up! That's what Vocational Rehabilitation wants you to do. Be persistance and put up a fight for the services you need and deserve. I did...and I finally got educational services.I believe that the real culprits are the employers themselves.With an abundance of workers to choose from, employers are demanding more of job candidates than ever before. They want prospective workers to be able to fill a role right away, without any training or ramp-up time.?In other words, to?get?a job, you have to have that job?already.?It's a Catch-22 situation for workers—and it's hurting companies and the economy. To get America's job engine revving again, companies need to stop pinning so much of the blame on our nation's education system. They need to drop the idea of finding perfect candidates and look for people who?could?do the job with a bit of training and practice.There are plenty of ways to get workers up to speed without investing too much time and money, such as putting new employees on extended probationary periods and relying more on internal hires, who know the ropes better than outsiders would. It's a fundamental change from business as usual. But the way we're doing things now just isn't working.Some of the complaints about skill shortages boil down to the fact that employers can't get candidates to accept jobs at the wages offered. That's an affordability problem, not a skills. And make no mistake: There are plenty of people out there who?could?step into jobs with just a bit of training so the real shortage is a training shortage from companies.Unfortunately, American companies don't seem to do training anymore.Originally Posted by?MPowering1?Yes, this has been discussed in other threads. With the minimum wage going up in several states, employers want people with more experience so they feel they're getting what they pay for. I don't see companies blaming the education system, and every time I ask for articles on this, nobody provides them. Perhaps you can?I think companies are getting the people they need, but they're not looking for people without previous experience. If you have any articles about companies not getting the people they seek, please link to those, as I haven't seen them.Unemployment, and the 'Skills Shortage' MythUnemployment, and the 'Skills Shortage' Myth | RealClearMarketsShortage of tech workers vs. cheap labor: #tellusatodayUnemployment and theA third of businesses complain that skills shortage is hampering growthThank you 313 and 3littlebirdies, for the links.From the Forbes article:Quote:There are jobs available in our nation – there are just not qualified individuals to fill them. And today’s employers have available a new solution – simply move the work abroad, usually reluctantly, to where there are qualified workers.The above statement is ridiculous. Where is BigDGeek? And some of the other I.T. gurus who cannot get jobs? Their jobs were not "reluctantly" moved abroad - and certainly not because qualified workers weren't available here. It was all about corporate greed and getting the cheapest laborers possible.I agree with the statement in the article that the education system in our country is getting worse, but I don't see the fallout coming for a few more years. Millenials aren't coming out of school uneducated, but find it tough to land a job if they're not near a major city, didn't work or intern in their field in college, majored in something that makes it tougher to find a job, or have some other issues making it tough to hire or keep them.Also from the article:Quote:So what does make a difference in K-12 education? First, involved parents who truly care about their children’s education – parents who make sure their kids are doing their homework and not watching TV or playing video games all evening. But there’s probably not much Washington can, or possibly should, do about that.But what it can do is mandate that schools hire teachers who are qualified in their field and have a passion for teaching. One of this nation’s highest priorities should be a federally funded scholarship program that graduates 10,000 new teachers each year with primary degrees in math or science.I agree we need to increase the pay, and therefore the requirements and standards of teachers so we can once again get the best of the best. But you can throw all the money you want at teachers and get the quality of teacher we had fifty years ago - if the parents aren't invested in their child's education, it's not going to matter. i know three young people who tried to get some of their school loans paid off by being part of Teach For America. Passionate, excited, invested in what they were doing - two of them quit the teaching profession because of the bad experience they had during that one year.?3littlebirdies - your USAToday article proves out what I say above - that it's b.s. that companies are farming out jobs because they cannot find qualified people.?You referenced the education system. The first article from discusses specific skills employers are seeking in applicants that they say they cannot find. It has nothing to do with just out of college workers and doesn't even reference the education system as far as I can see.The article you linked to from HR Review is actually written about the labor market in the U.K. and isn't relevant here. Having said that, the first point in need of improvement is this:Quote:The business and education community must work more closely together to ensure young people are ‘work ready’?and understand the demands of the world of work.I do think this is a problem with some of those coming out of college, and it's preventing them from either getting jobs - or keeping them. Colleges have never had to teach such things before, families did that. I don't think a college should have to hand hold students by teaching them something they should have learned at home the first 18 years of their lives. And the fact that there are fewer jobs than there once were, and students who were raised in a way that is making it harder for them to find and/or keep jobs, seems like a natural culling of the herd.In answer to this thread I see all the unemployed engineers, programmers, scientists and when I hear companies complain about trouble finding talent I believe they are completely full of excrement and either moral cretin or totally incompetent.Originally Posted by?NJBest?That's absurd. Why would you want to make it harder for a company to outsource? Outsourcing is what made us a great country to begin with. We mastered productivity through outsourcing and created a pool of highly skilled people. Taking that away would be insane.Outsourcing is NOT what made us a great country.?We did NOT outsource when we built this nation into a top manufacturing center of the world.The reason you limit outsourcing is so employers are forced to raise wages and hire local people that have the skills to do the job. The only reason we outsource is for corporate greed, just look at corporate profits over the past 5 to 10 years.Originally Posted by?BigDogNC?Outsourcing is NOT what made us a great country.?We did NOT outsource when we built this nation into a top manufacturing center of the world.The reason you limit outsourcing is so employers are forced to raise wages and hire local people that have the skills to do the job. The only reason we outsource is for corporate greed, just look at corporate profits over the past 5 to 10 years.I agree. Outsourcing has no benefit to anyone in this country except the 1%.Originally Posted by?BigDogNC?Outsourcing is NOT what made us a great country.?We did NOT outsource when we built this nation into a top manufacturing center of the world.The reason you limit outsourcing is so employers are forced to raise wages and hire local people that have the skills to do the job. The only reason we outsource is for corporate greed, just look at corporate profits over the past 5 to 10 years.Such great points.Originally Posted by?BigDogNC?Ok, I disagree that this is the #1 reason, but let's just say that it is lets say that it's all about the parents involvement with the child. Well, when both parents are required to work 3 jobs just to put food on the table, how much time and effort do you think they have left to put into their kids?I'm sorry, but we now have both parents working to support children so it is up to the school system to ensure they get the education they need.?I find this thread, as well as many news and media outlets, are simply blaming the victims.Really? I don't buy that. Many parents pawn their kids off to school as if it was daycare. At the end of the day, the buck stops with the parents when it comes to a child's education, regardless of the quality of schools. The children are the victims, not the parents. No one is blaming the children.Originally Posted by?BigDogNC?Ok, I disagree that this is the #1 reason, but let's just say that it is lets say that it's all about the parents involvement with the child. Well, when both parents are required to work 3 jobs just to put food on the table, how much time and effort do you think they have left to put into their kids?I'm sorry, but we now have both parents working to support children so it is up to the school system to ensure they get the education they need.?I find this thread, as well as many news and media outlets, are simply blaming the victims.I would argue a person that has to work 3 jobs to survive was never in the position to be a fit parent.Blame what you want, but that issue is nobody's fault but the parent. I am tired of hearing how it's a company's or a school's problem to either supply a crutch or simply take that 'project,' and it's responsibilities on 100%- heck, even 10% is too much.The day this country's people learn self responsibility is the day it's problems are ironed out.I went to college (my parents didn't), went without partying, created zero children, graduated, worked horrible jobs, moved to 3-4 states, saved, started a company, worked 70+ hours a week.Not once did I blame a school or anyone. Life is full of winners and full of losers, what will you be today?Spent the last few years trying to get a job in power engineering. I am an electrical engineer with over 5 years experience, and I would be willing to take an entry level job because I finally have a career goal.?Instead all the jobs want 3-5 years experience in power. I actually had a headhunter for this industry contact me, and he said he couldn't find anyone with this experience. I told him it is because there are no entry level jobs out there.I ctually talked to a VP at one of these firms. He told me they hire people out of college, and almost never hire anyone with experience. I asked if going back and getting a Master's degree from a university specializing in power would help, and the best he could say was it might or it might not.Meanwhile all these midlevel power jobs seem to go unfilled and have to pay folks six figures because they refuse to give anyone a chance to break into the industry.Originally Posted by?313Weather?And I don't blame people for jumping ship after two years or so. Life is way too short.?Doing grunt work in one organization in the hopes of the good ol' boy managers above you will decide to eventually throw you a bone and promote you or give you the raise you deserve 5-10 years later (never mind the possibility of the company failing then laying you off) is a waste of time when you can jump ship and get to raise/promotion you want much sooner.Many companies will end up having to adjust the expectations one way or another and accept that either job hopping will become the new norm or that concessions will have to be made with their employees so they'll want to remain loyal.I don't either because often it is the only way to get a raise/promotion. I agree that they (companies) will have to adapt either way or perhaps BOTH ways to stay competitive once the job market stabilizes and becomes more employee friendly.Originally Posted by?Ro2113?Your hatred for millenials burst to the surface. I remember working an a tax internship at this small firm and me and the other interns their were busting are asses not d!cking around. Apparently the partners at the firm enjoyed having us. Basically what bobtn said rains true.The thing is, unlike previous generations, Millennials are the first ones to not let scumbag employers take advantage of them in the name of "paying your dues" (which basically means just doing pointless grunt work because your boss had to be pointless grunt work) and "loyalty." They won't hesitate to issue ultimatums and job hop to get the pay/benefits they want. This attitude comes from seeing their baby boomer parents get laid off en masse just a few years short of their retirement years during the peak of the recession, simply for the pursuit of profits.?That said, I've never heard any employer say we weren't very hard workers. In fact, we're in an era where cross-trained employees are all the rage for companies (getting 1 person to do the jobs of 2 or 3 people for the same pay).?It's really the uncertainty (which is understandable given the state of the economy, as we're not getting any appreciable raises and layoffs could still happen at any moment) over how much our hard work will actually be rewarded within a company that scares Millennials, given how flat and debt-laden many companies are in the wake of the recession.The American service industry is creepy af. The employees are forced to basically act like the lovechild of Pollyanna and the Chuckie Doll. All due to company demands for their employees to seem eager to present themselves to the public, which is ridiculously thought of as royalty. It is even worse with tipped professions, because they're basically reduced to begging customers for money since they get paid sub-minimum wage.?In other countries, like where I was born, service workers and customers are treated equally, and disrespect towards either is not tolerated. Service workers do their job with courtesy, but aren't expected to be a circus animal to the public. And if a customer ever got nasty, the workers could kick them the hell out themselves, and managers will be fine with that.?Then again, whenever I go to countries like that, I often hear Americans complaining of bad service because they're so accustomed to workers acting like their overcaffeinated BFF.It never feels genuine either, the smiles do seem forced and ultimately derived from fear of being fired/not being able to make rent.I have never understood it.This "for the client" thing, whether it is a server at a cheap diner, or an engineering salesperson; this overly, fake everything environment that the employee must conform to. I ask; has anyone ever asked the clients if they care? If they do care, exactly what percent really takes to heart of a person smiles with four teeth showing, or if the technology salesperson shaved that morning?It is like people must bend over backwards to satisfy the 1% that would complain.I absolutely hate the whole fake friendliness and smile thing, whether at a diner, at the cosmetic counter, or with some technology sales guy at work, just hate it, along with the whole dog and pony show over how they dress.I remember when I was doing some acquisition work for getting some software, and I started asking the guy about his job, and he has to wear a certain color suit, shirt, tie, and everything. All of this because it is "for the clients" as he stated. I was a client and I did not care; how many clients actually care?In the employee (team member) restroom at Whole Foods Market (the flagship store in Austin), in each stall, they have a list of "conversation starters" taped on the wall that employees (team members) are expected to use in engaging customers. They drill this into their cashiers, especially.I worked there for eight years back in the late 80s/early 90s, before they went full-on corporate, and then I returned part-time last summer for a few months.It is a very difficult job. Especially if you're a cashier. Unbelievable stress.Originally Posted by?AguaDulce?In the employee (team member) restroom at Whole Foods Market (the flagship store in Austin), in each stall, they have a list of "conversation starters" taped on the wall that employees (team members) are expected to use in engaging customers. They drill this into their cashiers, especially.I worked there for eight years back in the late 80s/early 90s, before they went full-on corporate, and then I returned part-time last summer for a few months.It is a very difficult job. Especially if you're a cashier. Unbelievable stress.I'm so glad you posted! I worked at Whole Foods in the 90's in Texas (not Austin). I started back before they went public (I think it was 89/90?), when we didn't even have name tags or aprons!??I guess you were working there at that time, too? I was there for almost 15 years. LOVED it. I left in early 2000's due to husband relocating for his job to a city that didn't have a WFM.?Even in early 00's, it was still cool then, super relaxed, but there had been some changes... dress code (no tank tops), hair color (no more purple hair), name tags, aprons, no open-toed shoes (bye-bye Birkentstock Jesus creepers!)I was thinking of reapplying at a new store that is opening in the new city I'm living in now, but after your post... I might think twice! I don't want to be bothered while I'm... occupied! Geez. Who thought that was a good idea? So sad to think that our Whole Foods has gone too corporate.??It used to be so cool!I'm editing to add that I recently worked for another nationally known health food store which I actually had to sign a piece of paper - twice - saying that I would not say or write and in any way express a negative thought or opinion about them at all ever (it was freaky) so I will not say the name of the place... but they are trying very hard to be like Whole Foods, but they are not like Whole Foods at all really... but anyway... I worked there in management for about a year. It totally sucked. They wanted us to have a constant smile on our face. We would actually have to write employees up if we caught them with what the store manager called "***** face". Basically it's just the serious face that a lot of people naturally have when they are focusing on something - LIKE THEIR JOB - but we had to smile at all times. It was ridiculous. There were a lot of things I hated about working there, but the final straw was when the store manager actually asked us - department managers - to help her figure out who to fire because the corporate office said she had too many people. She started giving us examples of scenarios that we could use in order to write people up, three write-ups and she could fire them. One scenario was to ask them to perform a specific duty 15 minutes before they were supposed to clock out. She was hoping this would make them clock out late, which was an immediate write-up. (For everybody, no one was allowed to clock in or out within 3 minutes of their scheduled time.) Anyway, I had to resign from this position, even though the pay and benefits were excellent for a retail job, because of the way we were being told to treat people just really seemed wrong to me.Originally Posted by?haggardhouseelf?I worked there in management for about a year. It totally sucked. They wanted us to have a constant smile on our face. We would actually have to write employees up if we caught them with what the store manager called "***** face". Basically it's just the serious face that a lot of people naturally have when they are focusing on something - LIKE THEIR JOB - but we had to smile at all times. It was ridiculous.Note to managers:?Speaking as a customer, please don't do this.It puts pressure on the customer to act the same back. If I wanted to act like I was at cheerleading tryouts, I'd throw on a hoochie-fabulous outfit and run to the nearest sports stadium. Not go to the grocery store and buy avocados.First of all, the majority of stores that FORCE their employees to be "happy" are generally the worst stores for working at. They have the lowest pay, the worst managers, and the stupidest policies. These are the stores that cut your hours, screw up your schedules, don't back up their employees when they get an abusive customer, demand an employee be on call 24 hours a day for whatever shift they are needed for, don't give benefits, make their employees do three jobs for the pay of one, and fire their employees in a heartbeat. The people who do work there with all this hanging over their heads are simply not willing to put forth any effort for a company that doesn't appreciate them. I wouldn't either.On the other hand, I've gone into businesses where the employees are treated decently, given the respect they deserve, and are made to feel they contribute to the business. Those people enjoy what they're doing and while they may never give me a 16 tooth smile, they are friendly and willing to help the customers and they don't have to be threatened to do it.Which store would you rather work at? Which store would you rather shop at?As a customer or as a boss, you can scream about customer service all you want, but you can't force people to enjoy what they do and you can't force them to be happy. Someone who is already unhappy at work and is forced to fake it is only going to be more unhappy and customers can see that. If someone gets hired at a customer oriented job, they need to realize that helping the customer to the best of their ability while being pleasant is part of the job. Bosses need to understand that employees are people, not servants, and if if a manager wants his business to show a profit, then he needs to treat his employees with respect.Originally Posted by?oldtrader?Lets look at what is known in the retail world.By greeting customers with a smile, and a sincere welcome, will increase business at least 25%. Customers return at a higher rate if the clerks, etc., smile and greet them friendly. Yes I have seen this tested, and stores understand it.Forcing employees to pretend to be "sincere" is forcing them to lie, and your customers hate you. And them too. Having a genuinely happy employee is one thing, but even Mrs. Happy Pants should have the emotional sense to **** when it's obvious the customer (that's ME by the way, the guy with the MONEY) isn't in a mood for rainbows an unicorns. Give me my coffee and then go away. Here's your $5.00 tip.)Another area in which you are wrong about, is the idea that you get this blanket 25% increase. Even if that is true, that's not the WHOLE truth. The whole truth is not nearly that simple minded. How about REPEAT business. Sure you got 25% the first time, and then never came back again. And opportunity costs. Not only did they not come back, but when it came time for their brother to get the same product or service, they went somewhere else.And all because of you, and your simple-minded notion that "smiling" somehow is an adequate replace for good service, good value and a competent and well-paid staff. Businesses fail, all over the place, and constantly, and it's at least in part due to the fact that they are being run by people that operate the business using these tired, old and WRONG simple-minded saws. Because it allows the company to dumb-down their management. Anyone can goose-step around a business demanding everyone SMILE and repeat the corporate script. It takes a true business leader to assemble a staff of competent employees that deliver custom-created service tailored to each customer specific needs. Nothing says "I hate this stupid job and these stupid people I have to work for" more than a corporate-mandated smile and a verbatim repetition of the corporate mandated script. It also indicates incompetent management.Originally Posted by?Ralph_Kirk?I check nametags of cashiers and give them a "have a good day" by name?In all those cases it tends to result in better service, a bit extra when their jobs don't really require that bit extra. Most people prefer being treated like a person, including introverts.YOU may feel that way about it. Would it surprise you that many service people actually don't care to have customers do that name tag thing? Perhaps you assume that the service person prefers it because it makes YOU feel better.Quote:Originally Posted by?oldtrader?Lets look at what is known in the retail world.Ok there is pleasant and there is used car salesman over the top. Maybe you haven't noticed but in?today's?retail environment (big box, department store, grocery, NOT high end) the trend is to expect employees to act like your long lost BFF. People are not complaining about pleasant, people are complaining about exaggerated, fake, forced by the employer, often scripted interaction.?True fact that after two years our company backtracked a forced employee script that some genius at the top was sure would win our company brownie points and undying loyalty from our customer base. A script that was crammed down our throats with threats, and it took them two years to evaluate customer 'engagement' feedback to discover that the customers actually hated it. Some of that stuff 'known in the retail world' only flies in the upper atmosphere, down in the trenches with actual customers and employees things can look a little different.?tgpii in Chicago, Illinois said:?A place emailed and told me to call them. So I did. They said there was a mix up getting my information. They hired a person for the position, but wish they got my information sooner because I am more quailed then who they hired! You think that is true or they being nice? They want to interview for another position They wanted to interview Sunday. I said I am sorry it is Easter and I have plans. If you fill a position do everyone a common curtsy and take the job ad down.After playing email tag I had another place call me about a job. On the phone they told me about the salary. Why do government jobs tells you the salary and benefits up front when private places dance around it? Yes I get the line you work in the field you should know the pay. But I seen pay for the same job from $9.00 and hour to $50,000 a year.The last interview I had instead of the line tell me about ourself they gave me some markers and paper and said draw me a picture about yourself. I thought that was fresh.Why do employers ask me to tell me about myself or tell about a place I worked at. Isn't that what a resume is for? Why do places ask for resume then ask you to fill out an application? Why do places keep a job ad up after the position is filled? You ever go to an interview and know you have more experience then the person interviewing you? Don't reject me then post the same job a week later. Then there is TALEO . . . .NO ONE taught my life skills. Being discriminated against is considered normal. "That's just the way it is. Get over. Get used to it. It's not discrimination. It's you or something wrong with you." Etc...That's how it is in the south. I hate it here. Backwards thinking, dog eat dog world. Ignorance, hatred, close-mindedness, narcissism, lies and half-truths, manipulation, propaganda, etc...I'll be 24 in less than a week. Yay...?All this knowledge of how politics shape society still doesn't help me.?But at least I can die under my bridge knowing I found out the truth.?I can't even find retail jobs anymore.?The middle class keeps moving here and literally every poor person is dead, on welfare, or homeless and ignored/hated/blamed for all the world's problems.?Wow. I sound extremely negative today. Lmao.?It just sickens me how fake and full of crap most people are anymore.?I wish I had money to leave America, find a good foreign woman, marry, and enjoy the rest of my life.?I'm a young adult. I don't deserve this...?Why do I pay the price for the evil actions of others?!?!/end rantI'm sorry, but I don't agree with you oldtrader. If there would be a way to work from the bottom up in a company, it would be through an internship, but many of those don't lead anywhere, and are fiercely competitive themselves. And, if your graduated, you don't get to do internships.?I have yet to see applications outside of the government that will accept truly entry level candidates with a pay cut. Like $15 hr for recent grads and $25 for 3 years experience or something like that. The vast majority want experience or they don't want you.When I worked at Xcel, they had some stat like 50% of the electrical utility workforce was up for retirement in the next 10 years. Go look for entry level work in the utilities. There again, all they have 3-10 years experience required. Maybe they can fill that gap with mid career candidates from somewhere else, but eventually they are going to run out of candidates they can poach from other utility companies.?I have a feeling at some point and time they are going to run out of people who know how a utility operates and who have the skill sets needed.I've seen this trend of people not taking their lunch break and I think it sets a dangerous precedent. Unless you have a completely cushy job with little to no stress, a person needs that 30 minutes to an hour to refresh themselves. Eating at your desk doesn't count toward any kind of break and I would think it would cause job burnout very quickly.?With the economy the way it's been for years, it seems people are afraid to take lunch breaks or even vacations. Other developed nations have no problem with taking 3 weeks of vacation a year, six months maternity leave, etc.?We are training our employers to expect us to be drones and it needs to stop. Take your damn lunch break and don't take it at your desk!Originally Posted by?thefastlife?i don't know yet if the workload is so great where that is necessary but both of these companies are highly ranked in regards to "best places to work".The irony is that companies ranked "best places to work" are usually the companies that expect employees to work long hours for low pay and poor benefits. What happens is, the people who enjoy that type of environment are the only ones who survive (or the only people who ever start working their in the first place), and they are the only ones rating the company, so they rank it as a great place to work. Especially if it's a company that is honest about expectations.I know that in my field, the alleged "best company to work for" is one that openly admits on their website that it's not a company for people expecting 9-5 or a work-life balance, and that you should expect long hours, including many late nights, weekends, and holidays. Sad, but true. On the other hand, most other civil engineering firms at least give lip service to work-life balance.I believe it is becoming more and more of a "problem" for some people. It depends on what you do for your job. I'm a recruiter by trade, and at my last company I remember one afternoon that just had me shaking my head.?I was sitting in my office, and my junior recruiter was out to lunch. I had assigned him specifically to working on one of our lines of business, when the account manager for said line of business came barging into my office...I mean, I think she literally either kicked or shoulder-rammed the door in, because it hit the stopper so hard it flung back and almost hit her square in the face.Her: "Where's David?"Me: "Excuse me?"(we shared an office - I always had new team members sit with me for a few months before I gave them complete autonomy)Her: "I need him right now. Why isn't he here?"Me: "Because he's at lunch. He left 30 minutes ago, he'll be back before 2."Her: "SH*T!"Me: "Is there something I can help you with? It seems like it must be urgent." (yes, there was at least SOME snark to it)Her: "No. I want David right now."Me: "...........he'll be back soon. Is something wrong? If he made a mistake then I need to know since he reports to me."Her: "I have a new requisition from the client and we need to hire 6 more people by Friday."Me: "It's Wednesday at 1:30 in the afternoon. There's no way we can do that."Her: "This is unacceptable. He needs to be here right now."Me: "Dana, he is at lunch, as he is entitled to be. I'm not calling him to come back early from his lunch. I know I assigned him to your line of business, but any one of us can help you with whatever it is you need, and I'm telling you there's no way we are going to be able to hire six more people for this account by Friday when the entire hiring process for one of these agents is a 3 day affair. It just isn't going to happen."Her: (some sort of unintelligible grumbling and cursing) "This is unacceptable. You all need to be here."Me: "Dana, first, we don't report to you. Second, we are salaried 8 to 5 employees, and we are all guaranteed a one hour lunch. If you have an issue with us taking lunch, please take it up with HR and Thomas (our overall boss). I am not cutting his lunch short."Her: *curses under breath and storms out*This is one example, of MANY interactions that I've had with people who b**ch and moan about lunch breaks. In my role, I am/was the team lead for an internal recruiting team, so any time there is a hiring need the account managers would be all over us to get people hired. They would b**ch and moan whenever we weren't in the office to anyone who would listen. I've observed managers throwing fits over employees taking their scheduled lunch breaks, and I've seen upper management throw fits when line level managers take their lunch breaks.?It's not that the notion of lunch is becoming something that's "bad", it's just that companies are putting increased pressure on employees and making them feel like s**t for taking lunch breaks that are entitled to them.Originally Posted by?notnamed?I've always wondered where "9-5" came from. In my experience it's always been 8-5 with an hour lunch baked in to that. I'm salaried working at one of those "best places to work" and they highly encourage us to take lunch and other breaks just to get away from the desk and stretch if nothing else. Also push us to actually use our vacation time and get free days off if we've had to put in overtime/off hour support.The best thing I've ever done for my sanity was finding a company that actually cares about work-life balance. My quality of life has increased DRAMATICALLY. I think I posted in this thread several years ago right before changing jobs and it was like night and day. It's hard to figure out which companies care about this stuff vs just paying lip-service when you're interviewing, but when you find the right company it's amazing.I will say this, if you are running a company and you're struggling with employee retention, show your employees that you give a crap about their well-being. Show them often. It engenders an incredible loyalty and fosters a solid company culture.I worked for one company where they were very flexible..and very few people abused it. We were told to take an hour lunch on the clock, and most people kept it at that.Now I work for a company where there are task masters and they always talk about 30 minutes, no more!!!.... and people will steal time from them at every possible moment. IE, when the company retreat is happening, people I work with take 3 hour lunches.?When you treat people like children, they will often behave like indignant children. If you give people freedom and they abuse it, then those are people you give bad reviews and push out. If you start off viewing everyone negatively, you'll get more negativity in the end.We have become literal slaves to our jobs now, where we feel guilty for actually taking a 30min-1 hour lunch break. As long as you are doing what you are supposed to do the other 8 hrs, you should welcome a lunch break.My company gives us 2 paid 15 minute breaks and we clock out for our 1 hour lunch.Originally Posted by?Sgoldie?I have a feeling I met those foreign workers right after this happened while over on the coast one day. We were in a restaurant in a small town. There were a half dozen Indian men in a group next to us who kept close together with their heads down and who never spoke even to each other. Clearly they were uncomfortable and appeared somewhat shell shocked. The Indian man leading them who was quite outgoing told us he was down from his company in New Jersey that employed these men who had just gotten jobs in the area.?Upon further investigation I found that the new hiring manager at Disney for that department, a recent hire himself, was Indian. My son who was the hiring manager for a Wall St company told me a while back about being hard recruited by a NJ company to staff their IT operations with Indians to be imported. I strongly discouraged the idea and he didn't go with it.I've been invited to sit in on some of the meetings that these outsourcing firms in India have with our management. Boy, they promise the moon. If there is anything that we do, they can do it, and they have done it before and better. But in my day to day work with folks, it's not quite the same story. Lots of excuses, lots of training needed, and delays and problems with communication. We get work done with these folks, but it's a lot harder on me. I have to work really hard to make it really easy for them. The sales pitches these managers (and congress people) are getting are what we need to study. Unfortunately, we aren't allowed to steal our jobs back because we are too expensive.Originally Posted by?ParkerP?This happened at my former employer and we were replaced by fellow Americans. Here's how you handle it. Remain professional, train your replacement properly and get your severance (if you can't find another job between time). Because you maintained a good relationship through such a difficult time,?if your skills are truly unique or in demand?to your former employer, you can go back to your former employer as a contractor or consultant yourself and charge them 2-3 times what you were making than when you worked for them. Use this as a springboard to starting your own business as your former employer, if they are a large corporation like Disney, will have access to tons of connections aka customers. Will it work out like this in every situation? No. But you will kill any chances you have by acting ugly from the onset. Even if you don't start your own business remember, you will need references when applying to the new job. You will definitely want them to be positive from your former employer.These people were just humiliated in this whole ordeal of losing their jobs to lower paid workers, that they had to train, else, their severances being held for ransom won't be released. I doubt they'll be going back to Disney anytime soon. Even if you think about this from a more, level-headed business perspective, you now know that such a company is willing to replace you and your department "just like that". There's no long term future even if you go back. There are many things that are red flags and stains on an employee's resume. This here pretty much permanently scars Disney for these (nor former) employees.Disney may provide good references or not as you go into your new job, or your own business (although the guy in the linked YouTube video who publicly spoke out against what happened to him and his team going into his own business didn't mind), but I'm sure folks will understand that if a person worked at Disney's IT, following about the news, just what the heck is going on.Related... there was a thread in this same Work And Employment section how folks find jobs after getting fired. Short side of things was getting fired isn't the kiss of death. Especially if you were doing the job to the best of your ability.how people get a job after being firedOriginally Posted by?Scooby Snacks?I'm curious why OP threw in the term "foreign." It should apply to training your replacement, foreign or not. Our company will soon be facing that scenario. My coworker informed us that she will be leaving the company several months from now due to a marriage and move. We understand; she doesn't want to commute, we don't blame her one bit, but we want to hire someone to replace her and have her train the new employee before she leaves. I am a part-time employee and can't pick up the slack so we have to have someone in place after she's gone. A mature employee wouldn't have a problem with training a replacement. Workers shouldn't burn bridges, even if they were unhappy at their previous job.You're comparing apples to oranges. In your case, the co-worker announced that she is VOLUNTARILY leaving her job. Of course, the company is going to want to hire someone to take her place. Once the new employee is hired, s/he will have to get trained. I've never had a problem when it came to training a new hire who got the job because their predecessor voluntarily left. In that situation, most people won't have a problem either.The situation with Disney is entirely different. They had experienced Americans working for them and then decided to lay them off in favor of cheap, exploitable visa workers. Since they are visa holders, then, yes, they are foreigners?Americans don't need a visa to work in America. It's humiliating to be told that you are losing your job and if you want severance pay, you have to train your replacement. We all know that it was greed on Disney's part when they did this. They could have easily left their American workers in place and the company would still be making huge profits.Originally Posted by?wsamon?This is going to sound weird to people on here considering other posts, but I would not have gotten into computer programming / software development.?While I enjoy it, IMO it is no longer a good career field.It pays a decent wage, but not a great one.The easier, good work-life balance jobs - the kind where you can work 30-40 hours / week for $50k - are being commoditized and sent overseas, and to free-lancers that work for peanuts.It's becoming increasingly easy for non-programmers to develop usable software with nice interfaces thanks to some good rapid development applications that are being created (this is a good thing), which will reduce the # of jobs available in the next several years.There will continue to be demand for the higher-paying jobs (typically $80-120k), but these jobs usually require hospital doctor's hours or worse: being on call nearly 24-7, expected to work late nights and weekends consistently, often with no compensation of any kind. 60 hour work weeks are considered fairly normal at this level.Experience actually works against you in many ways. Because of how rapidly technology changes, you have to stay up-to-date with the latest technologies, techniques, and languages or risk becoming outdated and expendable. This is usually done on your own time and at your own cost.If I could do it again, I would choose one of the following routes:IT Management - why do the grunt work when you can jump straight into the easier, better paying jobs where delegation is the name of the game?Doctor - if anything, demand is growingStock broker / financial analyst - relatively easy way to make a lot of money without a ton of workBlue collar job related to building construction / repair (electrician, pool maintenance/repair, etc.) - these jobs aren't going anywhere but are often overlooked, they're better for your health than sitting at a computer 60 hours a week, are relatively easy, require minimal formal education, and are pretty easy to start your own business where you can make a lot of money if you run it wellRegardless of the actual path, I'd make sure to focus more on communications & management classes (but not as a degree!), and start my own business in my mid-20s after I have a few years experience under my belt. I would also spend a lot more time networking and lobbying for my worth, and less time doing my actual job (if I was white-collar - and not to say I'd be useless in my actual job). That is really the only way to go these days.Agree with almost all your points. I had a relatively easy job from a technical perspective with the last employer. It paid $50k, was a straight 9-6, and had excellent benefits. The team was new when I started, but once we got rolling after the six months to a year, I could sleep through it. Initially, the thinking was to use that role as a feeder program for more senior roles, but new management squashed that idea and the role was much more clerical in nature over time.?Now the role is focused on customer service, not technical skill, and new hires are probably being paid considerably less than what we made. It's an effective demotion for those who remain there.IT is also concentrated in large metros. I'm from Tennessee and the only decent IT market in the state is Nashville. Here in Indiana, IT is concentrated in Indianapolis. Not everyone wants to live in a major metro. Contrast that with jobs in medical, education, and the trades, and those jobs are available about anywhere. In IT, you don't have a lot of choice in where you live.?IT is also extremely vulnerable to offshoring, foreign work, and outsourcing, probably more than about any other field other than low end work. We've heard all sorts of stories about IT workers having to train their foreign replacements on US soil - have you heard any stories about accountants, nurses, cops, or teachers being fired and have to train foreign replacements, en masse?If you are any sort of customer facing role in IT, people will contact IT for most any question. Help desk numbers are posted throughout organizations, and are often the most frequently seen number by anyone who has a question of any type - when they want something answered, they call the IT call center.?IT workers are a cost center and one of the easiest scapegoats in an organization. We had a rushed deployment of a piece of software in the last few weeks. There was little to no testing because management just wanted in production ASAP. When things don't go well, the rest of the organization then blames IT, even though we could hardly do any testing at all. If something is going on with an individual's computer, etc., and there was a larger change made recently, IT gets "blamed," even though the problem may be no one's fault and entirely coincidental. Still, the burden is on the IT staff to prove they weren't liable for the problem.The hours are often ridiculous. I work core office hours, 9-6, but where most professionals can leave the job at work, or come in early or leave late if behind, IT operations/administrators often can't. Patching and maintenance is often occurring in the middle of the night, on weekends, or before core business hours. Many roles are virtually on-call 24/7, making it difficult to even take day trips.?To me, IT is a poor career choice that pays no better (and often worse) than true professions, with far worse working conditions.? # HYPERLINK "" \t "new" 1?????????03-23-2016, 04:10 PMyellowsnow??Senior Member?????befriend?Join Date: Nov 2006Location: Las Vegas10,035 posts, read?18,177,340?timesReputation: 14428Every era has it's own challenges. I think where we are today can be closely compared to the Industrial Revolution. People had to move to the cities to find work because the work their parents had done on the farm was now being done by more machines and fewer people. Today we have the Technology Revolution and Globalization. A double whammy.About half the jobs we have left do not pay a living wage and soon a lot of them will be automated. A huge number of the middle class decent wage positions have been moved to other countries or replaced by technology. Accounting firms used to employ hundreds of people to keep accounts. Now it's one person with a good computer! We have reached a point of diminishing returns where hard work will not be rewarded with better jobs. There just aren't enough to go round.If you were young and starting out today, what would you do? Here's my list.1) Stay mobile and able to go to the opportunity.2) Robotics/Automation3) Plumber4) Electrician5) Social Services6) Owning a business7) EngineerI left out some of the big professions like lawyer(lawyerbot already exists) and doctor/medical because I can see technology replacing a lot of their functions and dumbing down the jobs left to low pay.I work in IT, but majored in economics.I would have majored in finance or accounting instead of economics. I'm a numbers/data person, and do not like the IT side of things. Talk to me about taxes, the economy, or real estate trends and you have my attention - talk to me about some new tech development or IT issue - I truly couldn't care less.?I would have left Tennessee after graduating high school. The economy was terrible there when I graduated in 2010 and I got into IT support to pay the bills. I've progressed, but don't care for a bit. I work in IT for a bank, and would love to get back into the core business of banking/finance, and out of IT completely.For 99% of people like myself that are not fit to be sports stars, athletes, or executives, the best way to a good wealth is to start a business.I have a good salary now as doing computer stuff in the financial world, but there's definitely a cap. If I could start over, I'd pick something, anything, really, and learn the ins and outs before starting my own business.Upon completing high school, I would invest at least a year in a blue-collar occupation, but in a better-educated, and probably college-centered community. Upon choosing a major, I would investigate, far more carefully, the pitfalls and frustrations common to all entry-level career paths associated with it. And I would attempt to develop a "sideline" skill which could be turned into a self-employment option as an "escape route" from the regimentation and stagnation which comprises too much of corporate life."All our knowledge is ourselves to know." (Alexander Pope)Well, in the absence of less-costly alternative that would provide comparable benefits, I guess I would just pay it. Health insurance premiums have been rising significantly nationwide in recent years. Not as bad as your case, but my own employee contribution (individual coverage only) went up about 20%, on January 1.With the Affordable Health Care Act, you are pretty much required to purchase health insurance, or face a penalty. About the only other option would be to seek employment elsewhere, where premiums are lower. But then, who knows what the future holds, with regard to premiums.In any employment conundrum the answer is the same: If you can find a better deal, go for it.There is no reward for loyalty. You need to manage your own career. Your company is a sociopath. It cares only about itself.Its the new normal OP. Its called capitalism. Chips are all in the employers corner. When faced with the choice of being unemployed and employed workers will take whatever is shoveled in their face. When the economy improves and jobs are plentiful the employer will have to give better benefits to attract workers. Since there is a line of hungry workers who would sell their soul for your job, you either have to win lotto or eat that 500 a month premium. We are all in the same boat op. Unless you are in a powerful Union.Originally Posted by?AfriqueNY?Its the new normal OP. Its called capitalism. Chips are all in the employers corner. When faced with the choice of being unemployed and employed workers will take whatever is shoveled in their face. When the economy improves and jobs are plentiful the employer will have to give better benefits to attract workers. Since there is a line of hungry workers who would sell their soul for your job, you either have to win lotto or eat that 500 a month premium. We are all in the same boat op. Unless you are in a powerful Union.Yeah.No one owes you health insurance.Go try buying it yourself and see how much it costs.It's insane and covers nothing with a very bad network.Originally Posted by?Full Spring Greenery?The new plan year for the health insurance at WORK is starting on April 1st. With just two week notice, the company sent out the renewal letter for the health coverage and without warning anyone of the HUGE increase in advance, raised the rates the employees pay by 80%.We complained to HR but got no response. Now the four of us in the team have decided to write a joint letter to the company CEO complaining about the huge increase and lack of notice. What do you think will happen? (It is a 860 employee IT Consulting Company and the CEO works across town.)Other than quitting, what would you do if your health insurance premium went up 80% in one year? (Employee cost, for the cheapest option.) * It is still below Obama care costs. (Employee + Spouse went from $280 a month to $504 a month)Well, without knowing the deductibles, pharmacy and a host of other things, to say "Go elsewhere" would be a very bad choice of words on my part.Since you DID say "Still below Obamacare costs" then you're getting a deal better then that jerk can provide!You have healthcare which your employer is now forced to do by law. Lucky for you that you're paying less than people having to buy subpar health insurance on the market.Just wondering -- did you vote for any of the politicians who either created the ACA or who approved it without reading itOriginally Posted by?Full Spring Greenery?The new plan year for the health insurance at WORK is starting on April 1st. With just two week notice, the company sent out the renewal letter for the health coverage and without warning anyone of the HUGE increase in advance, raised the rates the employees pay by 80%.We complained to HR but got no response. Now the four of us in the team have decided to write a joint letter to the company CEO complaining about the huge increase and lack of notice. What do you think will happen? (It is a 860 employee IT Consulting Company and the CEO works across town.)Other than quitting, what would you do if your health insurance premium went up 80% in one year? (Employee cost, for the cheapest option.) * It is still below Obama care costs. (Employee + Spouse went from $280 a month to $504 a month)Not much you can do besides complaining. THEIR costs went up a lot, so they passed most (or all) of the increase onto you.?This is the way it is for everyone now.You were very lucky before, that's still a very reasonable amount. I pay just a bit less than that, and our contribution actually went down. Unfortunately to avoid the "cadillac tax" my employer switched to a high deductible with HSA,?so our annual out-of-pocket went up more like 300%. Still, they are paying about $1,500/month of our premium.Originally Posted by?AfriqueNY?Its the new normal OP. Its called capitalism. Chips are all in the employers corner. When faced with the choice of being unemployed and employed workers will take whatever is shoveled in their face. When the economy improves and jobs are plentiful the employer will have to give better benefits to attract workers. Since there is a line of hungry workers who would sell their soul for your job, you either have to win lotto or eat that 500 a month premium. We are all in the same boat op. Unless you are in a powerful Union.No, it's called socialism. Now you have to buy healthcare for yourself plus some welfare leech. Welcome to obamacare. How's that hope and change working out?Originally Posted by?CampingMom?I am dealing with my spouse out of work-second time since 2008. He's been going to interviews-he had 3 call backs for a meat wrapper job at $9hr. Nothing. He's depressed and is self medicating it with drinking. It's awful. He's got a interview again today-doing something he did for 21 years as part of his job. I am hopeful as he knows it in and out. But let's face it, he's almost 52. This out of work stuff is breaking some of these guys. You can only be rejected so much before you feel like a total failure. I can't keep us afloat much more as my union has been without a contract for well over a year. I work full time dispatching, but I've got drivers who make more per hour starting out and they don't get health insurance. I payout almost 45% of my salary to my insurance. I can't survive much longer on $435 a week. I just want to curl into a ball somedays and never get up again. So I know where you are. I get it. Employers don't hire qualified people it seems these days who want to stick it out long term. As a "older" worker at 50, I might as well be put out to pasture or sent to the glue house. No one wants us.This was heartbreaking to read, but it's also a reflection of today's reality. I don't understand how a seasoned worker isn't an attractive candidate, especially since seasoned older workers are less "risky" than hiring someone around my age.?You are right about the way this affects a lot of people. My husband was at that point. A few years ago he had nearly 20 interviews and couldn't get a job...at that point he started to wonder if anyone would ever cut him a break.As a person with multiple layoffs, I can say it's easy to wonder if you as the individual is the problem. But, after my first layoff I was successful at finding a job, and I know I'll be successful again. So will many people.Originally Posted by?CampingMom?I am dealing with my spouse out of work-second time since 2008. He's been going to interviews-he had 3 call backs for a meat wrapper job at $9hr. Nothing. He's depressed and is self medicating it with drinking. It's awful. He's got a interview again today-doing something he did for 21 years as part of his job. I am hopeful as he knows it in and out. But let's face it, he's almost 52. This out of work stuff is breaking some of these guys. You can only be rejected so much before you feel like a total failure. I can't keep us afloat much more as my union has been without a contract for well over a year. I work full time dispatching, but I've got drivers who make more per hour starting out and they don't get health insurance. I payout almost 45% of my salary to my insurance. I can't survive much longer on $435 a week. I just want to curl into a ball somedays and never get up again. So I know where you are. I get it. Employers don't hire qualified people it seems these days who want to stick it out long term. As a "older" worker at 50, I might as well be put out to pasture or sent to the glue house. No one wants us.And this is why some people's attitudes, especially younger people, make my blood boil some time.I've been screening students' resumes and other info for viable candidates to forward to the hiring manager. Last week, one of the candidates I reviewed looked promising. Before I forward someone to the next step, I always want to make sure they're still interested. So, I called this student up just to ask him if he was still interested. It was a simple question I had for him: are you still interested in being considered for a internship that leads to a full time offer?Here are some of the perks that come with this internship that leads to full time offer:-company car-gas paid for-toll paid for-expenses paid for-little responsibilities... we just want them to learn in this internship-$20/hourThe spoiled brat said in a whiny voice "I don't know if this job is a good fit for me, I'll get back to you on this..."I said ok, thanked him for his time, and as soon as we hung up, I threw his files in the trash. The next candidate was so thankful I called him back. He kept saying thank you. After our talk, he even sent me a thank you email.I happen to know how hard it is for this particular market right now. That guy with the whiny voice will learn next year when he graduates that life isn't as rosy as he thought it was.Originally Posted by?Vintage_girl?This was heartbreaking to read, but it's also a reflection of today's reality. I don't understand how a seasoned worker isn't an attractive candidate, especially since seasoned older workers are less "risky" than hiring someone around my age.?You are right about the way this affects a lot of people. My husband was at that point. A few years ago he had nearly 20 interviews and couldn't get a job...at that point he started to wonder if anyone would ever cut him a break.As a person with multiple layoffs, I can say it's easy to wonder if you as the individual is the problem. But, after my first layoff I was successful at finding a job, and I know I'll be successful again. So will many people.Well, we've been veering more toward younger, less experienced people because we want to train them our way and kill off the bad habits before they have them. We've hired a few very experienced people in the recent past that turned out to have carried with them some bad habits from their previous companies. Very hard to stamp out. Older workers tend to be set in their ways even though some of them are just wrong.For example, we treat all field notes as court documents. We don't care what they did before, when they work here they have to take all their field notes on official documents and treat it like official documents. We've had a few older guys that insisted on taking notes in their own books and then when they come back to the office they would copy those notes into the documents. Our policies specifically said not to this this. I've confronted a guy on this, and all I got was "I've been doing this for blah blah blah years..."?It's not rocket science! Just take your field notes in the damn documents we provide. I don't care if the notes are sloppy. In fact, my boss prefer the notes to be sloppy - it's a sure sign that they were taken in the field. He's always suspicious of clean and neat notes. To me, they look fake if the field notes are too nice and neat.Originally Posted by?Vintage_girl?This was heartbreaking to read, but it's also a reflection of today's reality. I don't understand how a seasoned worker isn't an attractive candidate, especially since seasoned older workers are less "risky" than hiring someone around my age.?You are right about the way this affects a lot of people. My husband was at that point. A few years ago he had nearly 20 interviews and couldn't get a job...at that point he started to wonder if anyone would ever cut him a break.As a person with multiple layoffs, I can say it's easy to wonder if you as the individual is the problem. But, after my first layoff I was successful at finding a job, and I know I'll be successful again. So will many people.It's awful to watch and live with believe me. He's got two interviews tomorrow. One at the district I work for as a custodian, the other working produce at Wally World. Neither pays well. But it's better than what he has now, nothing at all. I just hope one of them pans out. I am almost completely out of what my family left me when they passed on. I don't even know how to pay our electric and gas bill that's due by the 29th. That's my new reality. Passing on paying bills, or not buying groceries. Finding you don't have enough to get gas in the car that week.It's been 8 years of this garbage. I am tired, angry and worn out from doing my best to keep us going. I hate that employers won't even give a chance to older workers. It's not like we are dead, but it's starting to feel that way. Counting down til June when we can put our house up for sale and leave NYS for jobs somewhere else. At least I'll have a nest egg since we don't owe on a mortgage.?But lack of decent living wages is really hurting us. My union is run by fools who know nothing about negotiation. I was told I get less per hour than the drivers I supervise/dispatch because I am full time, yet have the same qualifications they do. My health insurance is 45% of my salary. If I wanted to sign up to drive weekend trips, I get less an hour than they do for the same trip. My double time for a Sunday trip wouldn't be near what theirs is. I can't wait to move. I am applying already for jobs out of state. I am over whelmed and it's not worth getting up at 3:45am to be at a job by 5am when I can't pay the bills.Originally Posted by?CampingMom?It's awful to watch and live with believe me. He's got two interviews tomorrow. One at the district I work for as a custodian, the other working produce at Wally World. Neither pays well. But it's better than what he has now, nothing at all. I just hope one of them pans out. I am almost completely out of what my family left me when they passed on. I don't even know how to pay our electric and gas bill that's due by the 29th. That's my new reality. Passing on paying bills, or not buying groceries. Finding you don't have enough to get gas in the car that week.It's been 8 years of this garbage. I am tired, angry and worn out from doing my best to keep us going. I hate that employers won't even give a chance to older workers. It's not like we are dead, but it's starting to feel that way. Counting down til June when we can put our house up for sale and leave NYS for jobs somewhere else. At least I'll have a nest egg since we don't owe on a mortgage.?But lack of decent living wages is really hurting us. My union is run by fools who know nothing about negotiation. I was told I get less per hour than the drivers I supervise/dispatch because I am full time, yet have the same qualifications they do. My health insurance is 45% of my salary. If I wanted to sign up to drive weekend trips, I get less an hour than they do for the same trip. My double time for a Sunday trip wouldn't be near what theirs is. I can't wait to move. I am applying already for jobs out of state. I am over whelmed and it's not worth getting up at 3:45am to be at a job by 5am when I can't pay the bills.The most bitter irony I've seen with this is on tv there was an ad for how NYS is "growing economically." I couldn't believe the ad was about NYS, of all places.My spouse was pushed out of a very large technology company along with all those in the department older than age 40 (plus a token under-40 person) in response to a long-standing ageist policy which it has since repudiated.?The reality is that all industries are trending toward a structure where they need progressively fewer and fewer highly skilled individuals, restructuring more and more of the work so that more and more of it can be done via automation or lower skilled workers (or lower paid workers in other countries), and concentrating the work that cannot be cost-reduced among fewer and fewer highly skilled workers. Yet, the labor economy?still?relies on the no-longer-reliable incentive that hard work leads to advancement and higher pay based on seniority and years of experience.?What I find most remarkable is the arrogance and bravado of some of those who, like me, have been lucky enough to succeed. So many seem to have adopted an inanely self-ratifying presumption that our success proves a difference other than luck, as compared to the many equally-skilled workers who simply weren't as successful in today's labor marketplace craps shoot. Combine that with a higher level of callousness toward others which many of them have adopted, now that it has become more acceptable in society, and the result is terrible to watch.Where I'm at in Indiana, we're pretty much fully recovered from the recession and unemployment is back in the 4% range. There are unfilled vacancies from top to bottom, and I don't personally know anyone having trouble getting a job. My ex-girlfriend has only a high school education and got a pretty substantial pay bump moving from a medical back office to working the front desk at a doctor's office.?Of course, all this is local. Back home in Tennessee, the economy was and remains very weak. Pay is low even considering the cost of living. When I look into relocating back home, jobs that pay $50-$60k here in IN often pay $30-$40k there. It's hard to justify working in a place like that.Heres the crap I'm seeing a lot of.?As I read over job ads I'm seeing a long list of requirements and then the employer is only paying minimum wage with no benefits.?For example:For a security guard job.* Available between the hours of 4 am-11 pm!(Security guards are needed who can work early morning shifts, mid-afternoon shifts, AND late night shifts)* Clean shaven* Willing to remove piercings and cover tattoos* Able to remain on your feet for 8 hours or more* Maintain a regular, consistent attendance record* Maintain a courteous and professional demeanor?* Interact with guests and employees in a professional manner* Interact with local law enforcement agencies as required* Fully-equipped...or?able to get your owngear (duty belt, handcuffs, disposable gloves, flashlights, boots)?At the end of the ad they're paying state minimum wage.?All that for only minimum wage and no benefits.?That is a desperation job.I personally would not recommend retail jobs for Aspies as they can be demanding socially (pleasing the customer) and on short term memory (especially if you're a cashier). Better jobs for Aspies would probably be something like an auto mechanic, computer programmer, or data entry. Basically anything that does not require extensive amounts of teamwork or socializing with customers and can be done mostly individually.I see what you mean about cashier jobs. I hate retail but jobs such as convenience stores, fast food, and stuff like that always felt more tolerable because I didn't have to interact with co-workers as much. The interaction with the customers was always short and simple and felt more comfortable when i had a counter between us lol I've always had a problem with team work though, which is why I didn't last long at my cashier job at McDonalds??I wonder if they would have been more compassionate and understanding if I had told them I might have asperger's so they could back the f**k off.I would not recommend being a cashier from personal experience.If you're in IT and have skills that don't translate well to offshore/H1B staffing, there's plenty of open positions going unfilled.I see more and more employers going to extremes to maximize "productivity", getting the maximum possible return out of each employee. They fire two employees and give all their responsibilities to the "lucky one" who survives the purge. Then when he finally gets fed up and quits, they post a position rolling up all three jobs into one position, and wonder why nobody qualified applies for their Webmaster/Graphic Designer/DevOps/Cable wrangler position.Worse yet, job descriptions and requirements after they go through HR often bear little resemblance to the actual work that needs to be done. I'd write up a position for a network security architect and HR would want to stick in?"Minimum 1 year experience with Microsoft Windows 10"?and the like.The economy is not really improving to the point the mainstream liberal media would you have you believe (I don't consider an economy truly improving when the good chunk of jobs being created are lousy jobs you can't even live off of) and as a result, the employers have all the power, say so, and pull now.To be honest, you really need to stay out of the private sector until the economy really does turn around the employees have power. Right now they don't have a whole lot of bargaining position. Public sector is the only way to go now. There is only so much a government agency can abuse you. In the private sector, the employee abuse runs RAMPANT today and thats all because we are still in an employer's market. They have the power. Its not in the employee's handThere are less than half as many jobs as there are people making up the employable aged population and for every skilled or willing person there are at least two people who can do the same work but are less akward and maybe more attractive..On top of the fact everyone is getting friends and family jobs from the inside and pretty much screwing people applying..I finally got a job, but it's almost worthless. I got hired in, worked about a month, and now I'm chilling at home looking for work again laid off.I think the largest struggle I am having is avoiding the Staffing Agencies and?Contract?companies. It's sickening how many companies won't do thehiring?or firing themselves. All the jobs I am finding are outsourced to contractors. And all the contractors are outsourced to staffing agencies. And all the staffing agencies have undereducated, under qualified, morons working for them.It also boils down to .... being a jack-of-all-trades. I've had to work at so many different companies and industries just to provide for self and family that I can't find a job where I can apply one set of skills.Mcdonalds - Part Time Opportunities - Now Hiring!?Apply....Open availability + weekendsThank You. We have recieved your application.No call??? why?------------------------------UNO - Now Hiring, Servers, Dishwashers, Line CooksApply....Open availability + weekendsThank You. We have recieved your application.No call. NOTHING. Again.-------------------------------Home Depot - Now Hiring, Lot AttendantsApply....Open availability + weekendsThank You. We have recieved your application.No call. WTF?--------------------------------No interview. No rejection. NOTHING. All in my local area. Multiply this by 1000x and that's most of my job hunting for the last 3 years. These are the only type of jobs I can get, and I'm trying to do something better with my life. But no dice yet. It's on my mind 24/7. I just want a job. I want to work. I may have a disability but I'm better working then collecting a handout.?I'm very dissapointed with this society. Most of the people in this society consider me to be a leech because I have a disability and had no choice but to get SSI, and then say I'm a plague. But they don't understand that I want to work, and not be on the system. But I can't get off the system if employers refuse to even give me the time of day. This doesn't even count how screwed up today's hiring processes are.People complain about welfare/disability recipients and say they don't want to workwelfare/disability recipient applies for job and can't get hired anywherewhat's wrong with this picture? can't get some assistance and can't get a job either? so what's next? streets?I haven't minded applying online or via email. But what I hate is the fact that a good 90-sum % are job placement and temp agencies, and having to deal with four of them was more than enough (and I was very disappointed in all of them).?Yet I can also understand why more businesses are using them. One interviewer told me that the last position they posted on Craig's List (for a receptionist-office assistant) resulted in over 700 emails. That's the kind of competition we have here for clerical and administrative jobs.?I also hate how my mail boxes have gotten flooded with daily emails from job search sites, and I've learned that not all of them have Unsubscribe options. :-(Originally Posted by?Chatteress?Most job seekers cannot afford to hold out 12 months for a new job ... The fact that it took that long doesn't seem to support your belief that faxed applications/resumes is the best method of applying.?Job seekers, especially unemployed job seekers, may be better off focusing on applying to positions that do not require the applicant to fill out an online application.?The truth is that many online application websites are coded to automatically reject the currently unemployed. That is why many online applications require the job seeker to input current and past salary data; the employer wants to make sure people aren't using volunteer work to fill a resume gap and if their current position has a salary of 0 (due to being a volunteer position) the system will likely give an automatic rejection.?If you e-mail, fax, or mail your resume there's a better chance that human eyes will actually see it. I have gotten a better response rate from e-mailing my resume to employers who aren't even advertising for positions than applying online (where you're lucky to get an automatically generated e-mail acknowledging your application.).In the past few weeks I've been contacted by 3 companies. 1 was a pure recruit from LinkedIN, one was from a simple resume upload application and another was also a simple upload. Zero responses from any of the Taleo, Kenexxa or other applications.The thing about disability is that while you may tell them what you have, there is nothing stopping them from conveniently not hiring you. They just use another excuse to hire someone else. You guys think I'm crazy for "suspecting" this but if you look around many people with for example aspergers will tell you they don't dare disclose anything. In a workers market you probably could, but in an employers market forget about it. If you have a physical disability it's better because of the awkwardness. But with a mental or as I call it "invisible" disability you better think twice, and good luck proving the discrimination.I'm not defending it, I'm just very ticked off about it because we have a whole army of people complaining about those on disability benefits, calling them lazy/fraudsters/scum but they don't say a single word about the discrimination stuff that goes on behind the scenes.A couple of things:1) I like applying online since it is easy to do, but I hate the fact that most of those applications are ignored. I've been told this several times to my face, as well as given excuses about how the "job has been posted for years, but this time we intend to hire somebody" Of course, nobody was hired and over a year later, I still get that job now and then in my inbox. And this doesn't even touch the ones who refuse to hire the unemployed or who post jobs after they already know which internal candidate will be getting the position - my former employer did that all the time, so most companies probably do it.2) Many of the online forms are clunky and terribly written, and it's pathetic how they ask for a resume and then expect you to tear it apart and put it all into a rigid set of fields on their webpage. It's just a reminder that nobody reads it and all they do is scan for keywords - if you don't have enough keywords, you won't be contacted.In the end, it comes down to the deception, lack of human interface, and complete sloppiness when it comes to maintaining the career websites. Stop putting up insane obstacles to people who need jobs, or at least stop posting fake jobs and claiming that the company "needs people" - I honestly believe that a lot of this nonsense is done so they can later claim they "can't find any Americans" and can then hire cheaper Visa workers instead.Originally Posted by?sandsthetime?Employers want top-quality candidates at the cheapest prices.^^^ThisWhile I keep hearing unemployment has lowered considerably, this wouldn't be an option for employers if it was truly an "employees market". I suspect the following situations are at play:1. Lots of continued pent up demand. This is tied to the "real unemployment rate" still above 10%2. Globalization - Companies don't have to hire US workers. They can get the workers overseas at cheaper prices. Maybe not the same quality, but good enough in their mind3. Frustration - Most employees have been unsatisfied in their current roles and are looking for an upgrade. They are currently employed, so it doesn't add to the unemployment rate. However, this creates significant competition for those cherished few jobs available4. Automation - Companies have found ways to get business done with fewer employees. Its like musical chairs where the future state does not have jobs for everyone5. Companies are more willing to keep the job open indefinitely, if the perfect candidate is not located (e.g., 25 years old, with 10+ years experience, willing to work for pennies on the dollar). They have experimented with increasing productivity (e.g., more work with fewer people) and care much less about the employee well being, thus will continue this vicious cycle.Originally Posted by?Canaletto 1697?I don't have any cashier, retail, etc. type experience. Nor do I wish to acquire any as it would be a major kiss of death for my resume.??I can't live on minimum wage as it's a single person household. I have a Bachelors of Science from a good private college, I'm a former real estate paralegal and executive assistant. I also had a real estate license for 2 years as a realtor. My total white collar experience is at least 15 yrs. - Cashier, retail, etc.? Just can't do that. Jobs that require long hours standing, lifting boxes, moving heavy stuff, also can't do. I have a herniated disc lower back left side.?Of course, applying to actual people and departments and submitting good cover letters have worked for me most of the time before. Applying through Taleo, Brassring, etc. NOPE>Brassring and Taleo will kick you out, they are for the most part set up to screen out for gaps in employment.?Have you tried a temp agency? My friend is a "counselor" there said they have gotten many of the professional people in placements because they can keep them on the agency roster for the 90 day deal. Most employers like that safety net, they aren't on the risk, and you are getting a pay check, back to work, etc? Just a thot. I wouldn't lie, but here is the deal, you can be self employed and not make any money pursuing that. I know, my CPA hubby did taxes for many that went out on their own, trying to make a hobby into a biz in the 90's, made nothing, but WORKED hard trying to get their biz going with the intent of making money. Not all self employed make any income trying to get their biz going. Ask any entrepreneur. Some businesses NEVER prosper, and that isn't lying it is the reality of self employment. You can say you honed your skills, learned it wasn't prosperous and now want re-entry into a more stable situation. In the US that is a joke, but whatever.Originally Posted by?Jorge ChemE?Avoid Applicant Tracking Systems at any cost if you are not a top employee. Those are made with the only purpose of rejecting candidates. Personally, I skip companies that use Taleo as they are impersonal and you will receive no reply or generic rejection emails. Moreover, you have to invest a large amount of your valuable time to register your profile for every company that uses this system. In some of those systems you must fill several repetitive information. The most inefficient-time consuming hiring system ever designed.Taleo is known as a big brother, info getting software system that is less about employment, and more about tracking peopleOriginally Posted by?convextech?As an employer, I would rather hire someone who at least?tried?to stay employed, even if it was something they considered too lowly for them to be doing, over someone who did nothing.?BUNK, most HR people can't think outside the box...I was told that taking a job outside my industry for survival was a salary killer, that I couldn't demand a salary better if I couldn't GET a salary better than minimum wage...That was a lil darling in HR just out of college with NO experience in the real world. She TOLD me it would look better to not have done a low level out of my field job..so from then on. I NEVER listed menial survival jobs on my resume and I got hired right away.I'm not sure it's as bad now as it was back in like mid 2000's, when institutions like university of Phoenix were riding that "get your bachelor's now to advance or get a better job" mantra. Multiple places were emphasizing the supposed benefits of getting a degree for working and older adults. And it worked as large numbers of working older adults took out huge loans thinking a piece of paper was their ticket to fortune.Then the bubble burst, and there seemed to be an overglut of people with not only generic soft liberal arts degrees, but also degrees from shady for profit schools. Some of these places shut down.So to me it seems like the emphasis these days is not just getting any degree, but a STEM degree from a reputable school. Hence, the reason why it seems we read often of yet another article on best/worst paying bachelor's degrees.It is true we are at a point a degree is like a high school diploma, even if many people don't have a degree.But a quality degree from a good school will never go out of style outside of factors beyond our control (age discrimination, bad economy, etc).Originally Posted by?Suburban_Guy?I'm not sure it's as bad now as it was back in like mid 2000's, when institutions like university of Phoenix were riding that "get your bachelor's now to advance or get a better job" mantra. Multiple places were emphasizing the supposed benefits of getting a degree for working and older adults. And it worked as large numbers of working older adults took out huge loans thinking a piece of paper was their ticket to fortune.Then the bubble burst, and there seemed to be an overglut of people with not only generic soft liberal arts degrees, but also degrees from shady for profit schools. Some of these places shut down.So to me it seems like the emphasis these days is not just getting any degree, but a STEM degree from a reputable school. Hence, the reason why it seems we read often of yet another article on best/worst paying bachelor's degrees.It is true we are at a point a degree is like a high school diploma, even if many people don't have a degree.But a quality degree from a good school will never go out of style outside of factors beyond our control (age discrimination, bad economy, etc).You do realize that even people with STEM degrees still have trouble finding jobs. What are you going to do with a bachelor's degree in biology these days? Not much. Even in some of the high-paying STEM fields, people are complaining about outsourcing or foreign workers. It's hardly the panacea everyone makes it out to be. These days, the bachelor's degree is just the new high school diploma. It's unlikely you're going to get very far without a graduate degree or additional license/certification.?am 56 years old. Between ages 18 and 20, I had the experience of working in a number of entry level positions. I hated it. Employers will try to take as much advantage of an employee as they can.?I solved that problem by getting a degree that allowed me to work for myself. I have worked for myself since I was about 27 years old. Life is good and I cannot imagine ever working for someone else again.Some people here go too far in different directions. One group will blindly defend virtually anything an employer does based on some conception that employers represent authority and authority is not to be questioned. Another group believes everything should be handed to them without trying. The truth ought to be somewhere in the middle. However, it seldom is.The best advice I could give anyone is to try to find an occupation where you don't have to work for someone else. If you can't do that your second best bet is to get enough skills, education, and training that you can quit a job and get another pretty easily if you find your boss annoying and oppressive. My wife does not work for herself, but has sufficient skills she can tell an employer to "go take a hike" whenever she wants. Before she finally found the job she wanted, she probably quit four jobs in less than five years of working. She applied for other jobs and backed out of the application process simply because employers tried to drag this out too long and she didn't want to put up with them. Too many out there just simply lack the educational or job skills necessary to stand up to tyrants. If you are in that position--get out of it.Some people??just come here on a daily basis to complain and blame their career development failures on "those greedy businesses". Meanwhile, those that are more ambitious and less entitled?seem?to be doing just fine.Those darned entitled layabouts!!! How DARE they want a living wage, actual paid time off, and how DARE they want their hard work and loyalty to pay off and mean something.?They need to learn to be eternally grateful to earn $10 an hour with no benefits!! Just because they show up on time every day and work hard, do their best, treat people with respect and decency, and contribute to the success of their employer, and increase company profits, does NOT entitle them to be treated with respect, or be able to live a middle class life, or God forbid earn any basic benefits, and worst of all, not get let go in order for the CEO to buy another Vail home!!?Somewhere along the way, workers got greedy and overly entitled thinking that they deserve a good life and job security in exchange for doing good work and adding value to their companies. American workers today are forgetting to know their place as expendable wage-slaves; forgetting the fact that only the top 1% matter in that country. This nonsense about workers rights, and fairness and decency- Decency, Fairness, Respect, and work-life balance have NO place in Corporate America, and those silly entitled hard workers dang well better not forget that, and understand that it's all about profit and taking care of the wealthiest americans. Never mind the fact that other countries take care of their workers and are doing well by having a good middle class-'Murica is always right, and is always perfect!!?Now run along and serve your Corporate Overlords-Or start your own business. Good God - I get so tired of hearing that one. Yes, because clearly anyone who's out of work can magically come up the capital, products, know-how, marketing team, and so on to start their own business. Nevermind the staggering percentage of small businesses that fail each year or how even the successful ones take years to turn a profit..Also a fired CEO will walk away with more money than he or she can spend in several lifetimes in 99% of all cases even when the CEO in question is completely useless.I'll never understand why some people think that it's okay for a business to do whatever it wants so long as it makes money since "that's what businesses do." That same logic could be used to justify everything from gangs to selling drugs to flat-out robbing a bank since all are just examples of organizations or individuals "doing what they do" so clearly we shouldn't demand better or ask any panies should stop working the employees into the dirt, then laying them off while giving the wealth they created to some worthless executive who's entire "management skill set" consists of throwing other people under the bus to increase his own bonuses.Employees are seen as expenses to be minimized and discarded as soon as possible while all of the wealth their work creates flows to the top (often as a "reward" for "cost-savings" - laying off the workers.) So, now we have a real unemployment rate of at least 15%, people reduced to perma-temps, once career-worthy fields turned into contract positions with no job security and no long-term ability to pay the bills, and all the while certain groups want to blame the unemployed for this situation, as if they decided to all quit working because living without financial security is somehow better?!The reality is that greed at the top is killing your nation. It's no longer enough to be rich - you have to be stupidly rich, with more money than you could spend in several lifetimes. And if that means a few hundred or thousand people need to be made destitute, well, it serves them right since they "don't deserve" food or shelter since they aren't "winners" like the guys on top. Pile on top of this a large heaping of the Just World Fallacy, the Laws of Attraction, and other forms of pop psychology that attempt to blame all of a person's misfortunes on the victim while ignoring powerful outside influences that can dictate a person's life, and you have the situation we're in now. Those on top are worshiped, no matter how they got there, while those on the bottom are scorned, no matter how hard they worked or how many things they did right. And anyone who asks questions, such as why a CEO doubles his salary to the tune of tens of millions the same day he lays off thousands of workers to "cut costs" is seen as a heretic who's questioning the wonderful system. It's a crying shame and sick way to run a nation.... I have been thinking lately ... and the talk of companies paying low wages?and people calling them ( Slave Wages ) is foolishness. ...?Slaves were never paid any wages ... and they were forced to work against their will.?Employees being paid low wages can quit anytime they want to ... Slaves couldn't.Originally Posted by?bumpus7?.... I have been thinking lately ... and the talk of companies paying low wages?and people calling them ( Slave Wages ) is foolishness. ...?Slaves were never paid any wages ... and they were forced to work against their will.?Employees being paid low wages can quit anytime they want to ... Slaves couldn't.Yes but at least slaves had food and shelter because it was in the interest of the master to keep them healthy. In todays's economy they can pay a wage where you can't even afford food and shelter without govt assistance and if you get sick they toss you to the curb like trash and find someone else. I guess that is progress.Originally Posted by?bumpus7?.It is still not slave wages.?People need to live according to what they can afford. Not their wants.Or move to where the work is and away from High Prices..Clearly..You are delusional with such a statement @bumpus because no one much less a family exist being paid minimum wage without assistance.. Cost of living has risen ten fold just in the past few decades..BUT minimum wage has had NO COL increases since last minimum wage was voted on....I'm just shaking my head right now out the utter ignorance of income gap that has widened so far so fast..that only IF you have lived under a rock can't understand it???I love the pushback on minimum wage ..as Politicians try to SELL .."These are "Entry Level Job"..Yet average age of minimum wage earners average age has been proven by data~~Demographics of Low-Wage Workers | Raise The Minimum WageQuote:Contrary to stereotypes and the repeated claims of minimum wage opponents, the overwhelming majority of low-wage workers are adults, not teens, and they contribute a substantial portion of their households’ incomes. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, three quarters of minimum wage earners are 20 or older.Never mind that the educational levels of these workers are not teenagers..but adults with high school/some college/and even some with College Degrees..?Originally Posted by?Ultrarunner?Not everyone has to be self employed... those that are satisfied working for someone... more power to them...But this is what you said, unprompted, about working for someone else/people who don't work for themselves:"they will have to accept whatever comes their way and should be grateful to have it."A clear indication that you view everything but self-employment as some sort of indentured servitude.?Quote:Originally Posted by?DetailSymbolizes?Show them what? That they should accelerate their outsourcing and/or automating of jobs? Bonehead....Employee pay has nothing to do with that. Among American corporations, employee pay has never been a lower % of operating cost than it is now, while executive pay has never been a higher % of operating cost than it is now. Remember when the $15 minimum wage idea was all over the news and companies like McDonald's and Papa Johns were complaining about it leading to $10 Big Macs and $20 pizzas? All bunk. It would add pennies to those "food" items, not double or triple the cost.?It's not the workers of America that have changed, unless you view the American workforce becoming consistently more efficiently and harder working as a bad thing*. It's the businesses of America that have changed.?*efficiency/output and hours worked have never been higherIf more people started their own businesses then employers would have a harder time finding workers for their companies and wages go up. I read somewhere that a century ago something like 20% of Americans were self-employed and/or business owners and today that number is under 5%. But I have no means of verifying this. Certainly seems that way.But I can verify the following paragraphs: if people stopped working for peanuts and started demanding more money then wages would go up. The only?catch?to that is that you have to actually be able to leverage real world skills, of critical value to your employer, in order to have those demands met.But if you are a replaceable part in the machine then the machine knows you will work for cheap, and if you become too costly you, the part, can be replaced with another nearly identical part.I would also like to encourage people to work for (and start) small businesses. Anything with 1-15 employees would do. The more critical you are to the functioning of such a company the harder it will be to replace YOU. But if you choose work for a Wal-Mart or a McDonalds then you don't exist at corporate headquarters in any form other than a number with a cost attached to it.?With small companies you are measured in terms of the value you produce, and you employer tries to maximize this by making your employ as smooth and beneficial as possible to you as long as you produce results. With mega companies you are measured in terms of what you are costing them and they will try to minimize costs rather than maximize your well being and commitment to the company.My 2 cents is that in bad economies, they want everyone to serve in multiple roles. So, where engineers never dealt with customers, now they want them dealing with customers so they don't need yet another person in the chain. Of course, it's not very fair to people disadvantaged in those areas of life.I absolutely agree. In the nightmarish position I described, I was expected to be working software QA morning to night, and fit customer service tickets into my nonexistent breaks, or answer them at home when my contract explicitly said I wouldn't be compensated. I don't think that company really had the money to hire me in the first place, much less pay their other employees enough to really run with my contributions. Nope, they spent that money on Thunderbolt displays for themselves and those stupid touch mice all around.True that, even minimum wage jobs often comes with an extencive job description. Like cleaning work, must handel stock, communicate to a professional level, able to handle finance and keep to a health and safety standard.With my own field of ICT, many job describtions can sound exciting like handling code, gathering data reportsand devise your own way to communicate in achieving this goal, unfortunately, this is often tacked on with general administration duties like talking on the phone to external sources, arranging meetings, doing presentations within the team. Having experience, excellent communication, writing, numeric and so on, are often musts?Many are often vague and don't detail everything until an interview (which those are extreme few) or not even then and employers often assume everyone can basic NT functions.Originally Posted by?Caltovegas?Americans have become wussified. This is the land of opportunity so go find yours. Who cares about minimum wage? Get some license be it a barber, real estate agent, plumber, insurance agent, etc.. in many cases no high school diploma is required but the opportunities are limitless.Check out Grant Cardone. His site is loaded with entrepreneurs and their stories.Grant Cardone TV | Whatever it TakesBut first view this Dave Ramsey Rant.. Bottom line is this. You have to do what you have to do for you. If not in the big picture the world doesn't care. heard or seen Ramsey before... have to say we are kindred spirits.Thanks for posting!mass immigration is occurring in every Western country now, and no Western countries save South Africa, which is also being inundated. And in every case, it is at least ninety percent from the less developed nations and the Third World.?The pretext for this massive immigration is liberalism which on the one hand tells us we are virtuous to let them in, but on the other tells us we have a moral duty to allow mass immigration to atone for past sins, real or imagined--e.g., racism, sexism, imperialism, slavery.?But the real reason for mass immigration is that it drive down our wages, meaning business owners put more of what they make into their own pockets instead of paying marketplace rates for wages.Even if you are capable of working and having a job, other people have to be willing to work with you like giving you more instructions, reminding you to do things, re showing you how to do something because it's not in your routine to do it so you are not able to remember how to do it a week later. Not everyone is willing to do all this so of course you might be let go.?Also there are lot of road blocks to getting a job. You need references and cover letters and if you don't know anyone or have any friends and you are shy and have social anxiety and don't like social situations, you are screwed. Places want all this and how can you get it if you have social anxiety and executive dysfunction? You also need recommendations. That makes it harder to get a job. Also don' forget interviews, there are right answers to each question and when filling out a work application. You are already getting judged. If you don't understand something so you ask for clarification, they might not just hire you and just toss out your application after handing it to them. So it's best if you have someone else help you with it eg. friend, parent, neighbor, than asking the people at the job you're applying at.?And people b***h about people who are capable of working of being lazy because they are on Social Security. Well guess what people, if you are the one who does the hiring, you are part of the problem why people are on it. It's people like you why they can't get a job so they need it to survive. Just stop judging and start hiring and less people will be on it, including people with ASDs.Ever hear the line, "There are no wrong answers" when dealing with an assessment test??That's a lie straight from the pit of Hell.?Yeah, for an accurate personality assessment, no answer is "wrong," but for THEIR purposes, the "wrong" answer(s) will ensure you do not get selected. Ergo...there are WRONG answers.?Interviews are the same.?"Be yourself."?Not if I want to get the job.It's very common to get hired from temp to permanent if the job was warehouse or doesn't offer a lot of pay or benefits once hired. However, it's very rare to get hired permanent in the corporate and office world. Basically they will use you up, take advantage of you for the low pay, then they will toss you out without any remorse or appreciation. In my job they only hired maybe one person a year. My advice is to get experience from that job while you're there and keep looking for permanent positions. If you get hired permanent at your job then great, but don't put all your hopes in that job when there are others out there.I have an intellectual interest in the real estate market both in my area and in different locales around the country, so I check various RE boards, zillow, craigslist, , etc... to see what's happening with housing. I've considered getting into real estate, I like it so much. I research that stuff for fun. A lot of people have better things to do with their time.The higher ups where I work have (obviously) been working for quite some time. They acquired their housing years ago when they it was much cheaper, or if they bought recently, did not have to worry too much about money because they're high up. They are literally clueless about what housing costs are in our regional market because they aren't looking. They set entry level salaries based on what they THINK is reality, not what is truly reality.?Even when I point out what the RE market and rents actually are like for our entry level people, this does not seem to make an impact. They say things like, "I would have been thrilled to get offered $42,000! I started at 29,000!" They don't seem to realize that after taxes and deductions, a net take home of $2270 a month is barely enough to qualify for a 2 bedroom apartment rental in this area, which?start?around 1000 per month. The low ones at that level have vacancy rates at well less than 1%, usually very long waiting lists. To get something quickly you'd have to pay at least 20% more. Many, many, many people in my area pay out 50% of their take-home pay toward housing unless they roommate up with 2 or 3 others. Again, when I point this out, the higher ups think "well that's not our problem." I suppose it isn't in a literal sense, but that attitude does not make it go away.I am slow at most things in general. No matter what kind of job I had, I always got yelled at for being too slow. I am slow at cleaning as well.?The sad fact is that employers always want the impossible: efficiency AND speed. If I rush, I don't get things done properly. If I do them properly, I can't go fast. So I have to choose: efficiency, or speed??I always choose efficiency, because I want to do things well. I hate not doing things properly, so I always want to go at whatever slow pace I need to get things done. I hate being rushed. It makes me very anxious.?Seemingly, there are lots of NTs out there who are capable of going fast AND being efficient. I am genuinely extremely puzzled about that, and have no idea how they manage it, but they do.?If you are not fast enough you might not last long in your cleaning job because they will replace you with an NT who is both fast AND efficient. Sad, but true.?In my experience, most employers want the lowest possible "acceptable" level of quality as fast as humanly possible. The difference between acceptable/good/excellent can't be easily measured. How many "things" you do in an hour?can?- so they'll whip until that number goes up and they feel like an effective boss.?Unfortunately, I work slower in order to do excellent work. Some people notice that - most don't.?*sigh*As far as I am concerned if employers want me to work faster they can get robots to do the job.Hello.I found this post through a google search and then I decided to join this website. I don't have aspergers or autism but I do have OCD and am an HSP (highly sensitive person). I don't like labels anyway though.I know this thread is a few years old so I don't know if anyone will see this but I wanted to add my 2 cents. After over a year of struggling to find the right job, I found cleaning. It is hard work and I never thought I'd be doing it but I like it because I can work alone and don't have to deal with people or work in a chaotic environment. I get overwhelmed very easily. I Like it because it's quiet and solitary and simple.Right now I am in the process of trying out many clients in order to pick a few solid long-term ones. I have found a few people who seem kind and caring and it seems like a good gig. I am doing weekly gigs so I basically do 1/2 the house each week, alternating between the main floor and the second floor.?Right now I do 3 hours a week for most clients. I am still fairly new to all of these gigs but I am really struggling to do it in only 3 hours. I know I will get a bit faster in time, but I am just feeling like I can't do only 3 hours for an entire main floor (living room/kitchen + bathroom) thoroughly. I did a gig today in 3 hours and I did finish in time but my god it exhausted me so much. And I was always worrying about the time. I felt like crying because I hate working under pressure and trying to clean fast. I end up hurting my body because my muscles get more rigid and I pay less attention to my body when I clean this way. And it's stressful to try and clean fast and thoroughly at the same time. It makes me really hate what I would otherwise find meditative and enjoyable.I don't charge much: $15/hr. I have been told most cleaners charge more. So I charge $45 for the 3 hours. But I am really feeling like I need 4 hours. Honestly I would even do it in 4 hours for the same price just so I can at least enjoy my work and not feel stressed and rushed the whole time and sore and completely exhausted and depleted afterwards. I feel that I have much more energy after a moderately-paced 4 hour gig then after a fast 3 hour gig.I am not sure what to do. After doing 3 hour gigs for a few weeks now I really think my gut is telling me I need to make it 4 hours. I have a good feeling about a few of these clients, they seem like really good people - they treat me with kindness and respect. But I don't want to push it. And some of them have had previous cleaners who did the same job in 3 hours. I am not sure if I should say that I need 4 hours to do a thorough job, and say I will do it for the same amount, or ask for more. I already asked one client for 4 hours and she said no, but she probably assumed I wanted an extra $15/week so I understand not wanting to pay me $60 more per month. But I am thinking about maybe asking for $50 for 4 hours/week. It's actually more than I need (had already done my budget and $45 per gig was fine) so I would actually be happy to make $50 and work an extra hour at an even pace where I can enjoy my work. That way I am only asking for $5 more per week, or $20 more per month which doesn't seem like a lot. I don't know if I should wait and prove myself first.. work for them longer.. or just ask off the bat. And if I should ask for $50 for 4 hours or just keep it at $45 and add an hour so I can actually breathe and enjoy my work. I would honestly rather do that and get paid the same than do what I am doing now which is killing me.I know lots of cleaners are somehow faster than me.. but maybe they charge more or are less thorough. Or maybe they are superhuman. I don't know. It's hard not to feel bad about myself when I know I am slow. But I am thorough, honest, reliable, loyal and kind. So I hope those are important qualities too. I didn't mean to make this post so long but given how exhausted and stressed I am after these gigs I guess I needed to vent my feelings. Not even sure if anyone will read this but thank you if you do and I much appreciate any feedback.I rarely if ever stand up to authority, even if I deeply believe they're wrong. Anxiety, depression, and the effects of Asperger's are a debilitating combination. The fear and sensory overload of disagreeing with or confronting someone have always paralyzed me--at least, until now.?At my work, we have a really cool GM who looks out for us and treats us fairly, but above him we have a crappy owner who we never see, who doesn't pay his bills and after buying 10 hotels still hasn't learned that you have to spend money to make money. But last night he came up with the most ridiculous plan yet. Our hotel chain features a rewards program where frequent guests will earn points for each stay and eventually get free nights. Sounds like a neat idea, right? The chain wants the program to continue at all its hotels, including franchise properties like the one I work at.?Well, our cheapskate franchise owner wants to avoid paying commission on this rewards program by basically sabotaging it from within. In a nutshell, from now on he wants me (one of the night auditors) to go into the computer and temporarily deactivate the guests' membership numbers every night so that their points no longer accumulate and they don't earn any more of the free stays they're entitled to. This was all explained to me by the GM, who felt the same way I did: it's dishonest and a violation of corporate policy. But he passed it on to me anyway, in a move that makes me seriously doubt his judgment.?After stewing over it for several hours, I called him up this morning and told him no. I won't have any part in this harebrained scheme, even if the owner fires me for it. I always hoped that the people I worked with were capable of turning this business around, but now I'm losing that hope. We're already the lowest-rated hotel in the city, a small, aging and poorly maintained property. If this comes out (and it will eventually), it will anger a lot of loyal guests and hurt the business. This corrupt new owner and his dingbat wife are just milking us for as much money as they can get, but I was here before them and I've stayed because I care. They've gotten away with enough bad decisions. I won't let them scam the customers too.?So for once, I stood up for myself. I'll have to see if the GM backs me up on it. I've never defied an order before, so it's hard to say how he or the owner will react to it, but I know I've done the right thing.Let's talk about awfulness of the current experience/inexperience cycle with employers.I've been job hunting for a career job or career internship since 2012 (last career internship was 2011).?I found out I am too inexperienced to get:1) Unpaid internships in IT and digital marketing (my double bachelors and my masters)2) Paid internships in IT and digital marketing?3) Many graduate programs through major fortune 500 companies (you need a few years of industry experience).?4)Entry Level IT and digital marketing jobs (these require at least 3 years industry experience, the degrees (sometimes master and Ph.D level), and/or certifications5) Other levels of IT and digital marketing jobs6) Volunteer work, including local libraries, Red Cross, etc...Reasons for not being hired:1) I don't have the 2-4 years of unbroken Industry experience to get any internships (despite having 3 internships done already)!2) I don't have the 3-5 years industry experience to get an entry level job!3) I don't have the desired degree level (masters isn't enough for some)...4)I was told I need to go through an internship program (but very few internship programs have been hiring since 2010)5)I'm have the unfortunate luck of not having any industry work experience since 2011 (because no one would hire me).6)I lack the knowledge of the employers software (well each business uses a different piece of software, and you cannot get a hold of it in school or on the market generally or cheaply)!7)I lack certain certifications, which are horrible expensive to obtain and many require X amount of industry work hours.?My class schedules at the time were during business hours, thus I didn't get hired (well that was the only time when they were taught).?I am on the other hand too experienced to get:1)Retail jobs of any sort2)Food services3)Other lower end jobsReasons:1) Too smart2) Too much potential?3) Overqualified?4) Other odd reasons hereEssentially I currently unable to get any jobs without having a direct connection with the employer (which I don't know anyone personally who is hiring).?I also hated it when the person interviewing me, asks why I haven't had industry employment since 2011 and/or why I was unable to get an internship and/or retail for that matter.Then give me an unpleasant response and look when I tell them, how little jobs were available and the requirement to get them.?I know I shouldn't complain too much, since a good portion of my fellow NT classmates graduating this summer from Masters were in the same boat as me.?For fun, I was looking and applying for a some jobs on Linkedin and I stumbled upon the listing for the Detroit Tigers.They are (not sure if they filled the position) hiring an intern to work January 2015 - Summer 2015.?Requirement: Bachelors degree in Marketing and/or IT (or related degrees).?Anyone else just overly frustrated over the current job prospects?Yep!I was job searching for years. Unfortunately, I had to stay local, I got some good tips, but, they were all for different states.?Then there's the ones that want you to have a weird mix of experience (database expertise, a nursing or other medical background, bachelor's degree (in either field?)) that likely doesn't exist in the real world.?Or the ones that require a bachelors or masters degree, multiple years experience and describe a fairly complex job... and then pay as if you're a supervisor in a fast food restaurant. Um, no... got a family to support and student loans to pay off.?Or the ones that describe the job like it's complex, then, turns out it's data entry or other clerical to support people who do the said complex work.I've also come across jobs that were a good fit for my skillset, but, was told that I was overqualified and they wouldn't hire me because they were sure I'd quit sooner than someone they had to train.Finally got hired at a good company with very little applicable experience, due to a personal referral from an old friend (he'd interviewed me a couple times in the past at his companies, but, they (as consultants) couldn't offer the job security I needed, they could only guarantee me like 6 months of work at a time and I need constant employment... I canNOT deal with uncertainty that big.).Given the response you're getting, maybe you should lie and tell them you've been doing freelancing or training in that time??(I actually did fill out my resume with freelancing stuff, otherwise it would've looked pretty sparse. lol)MissDorkness wrote:Yep!I was job searching for years. Unfortunately, I had to stay local, I got some good tips, but, they were all for different states.?Then there's the ones that want you to have a weird mix of experience (database expertise, a nursing or other medical background, bachelor's degree (in either field?)) that likely doesn't exist in the real world.?Or the ones that require a bachelors or masters degree, multiple years experience and describe a fairly complex job... and then pay as if you're a supervisor in a fast food restaurant. Um, no... got a family to support and student loans to pay off.?Or the ones that describe the job like it's complex, then, turns out it's data entry or other clerical to support people who do the said complex work.I've also come across jobs that were a good fit for my skillset, but, was told that I was overqualified and they wouldn't hire me because they were sure I'd quit sooner than someone they had to train.Finally got hired at a good company with very little applicable experience, due to a personal referral from an old friend (he'd interviewed me a couple times in the past at his companies, but, they (as consultants) couldn't offer the job security I needed, they could only guarantee me like 6 months of work at a time and I need constant employment... I canNOT deal with uncertainty that big.).Given the response you're getting, maybe you should lie and tell them you've been doing freelancing or training in that time??(I actually did fill out my resume with freelancing stuff, otherwise it would've looked pretty sparse. lol)I have my many IT projects that I did with mostly private companies as part of my classes.I knew the previous dean of my school and he had to end his internship program, because companies weren't hiring college students for internships.?My last interview was for a position with a company in Detroit, that their recruiter sent to me (I had applied for another position).?The head IT guy had the final decision and he wanted an recent college grad with a few years in enterprise software.The problem is you cannot get access to enterprise software in school due to expensive nature (it literally costs thousands of dollars if not more depending on the software) and you don't get it on internships either due to how protected the software is in a business.?I also told the recruiter during the phone interview that it was near impossible to get the experience wanted, because of the reasons above.?She was very understanding and loved how honest I when answering the questions.?She really liked me and said I was one of the best interviews she has ever had on the phone.In October I interviewed with General Motors IT, the Ph.D guy liked me and was understanding and went through something similar.The other guy I couldn't tell.?They told me GM expects all new hires at entry level to hit the ground running with minimal training.I also been told from others, it takes months for GM to get back to you on a job.?All these entry level jobs and internships I've been interviewing for, have expected their new hires to know all the stuff without the need of training.I know like ~45% of all college grads over the past few years are unemployed due to the nature of the job market, according to the government report.If I were you I would do the following:Firstly I'd help a non-profit in a digital marketing / website related capacity- There are numerous non-profits with need with functions that are related in skill in digital marketing - developing their website, helping with direct mailing, crowdfunding, designing.- For the website development example, once you develop the website, you can optimize the website for SEO, analyze and report on the conversion metrics to the non-profit management, run A/B tests etc; and put all of this on your resumeNext, I would fix up the gap in my resume- If you did anything you can spin in your past few years as self-employment or volunteering, do that - it is much better being a failed entrepreneur than having not done anything, in the eyes of the employer- Otherwise you will need to set up the best reply for the question "why I haven't had industry employment since 2011" that you possibly can. Sometimes a company will not hire you because of the gap in experience. But if a company is willing to hire you despite the gap, you will not get passed the interview process unless you provide a satisfactory reply to this question (unfortunately the answer you gave wouldn't usually be considered satisfactory). To give you some perspective - in some types of companies, the question "Why do you want to work in this company/industry" is so important that interviewees will revise their answer to that question multiple times (usually with feedback from mentors), and will practice it again and again to get it pitch perfect. For you, you need your answer for the employment gap to be pitch perfect. You might possibly think that your answer is already the most truthful one, and I'm not telling you to lie, but in many times framing the answer from a different angle or working on your delivery is essential. I would try to get one of your friends who work in a professional capacity to help you practice. I think if you perfect this part, you will no longer get that unpleasant response, and, while you will never love it, you will hopefully no longer hate responding to this question. (The corollary to this is that your resume should also be as optimized and as perfect as it can be, provide this to your professional friends and as them for as much criticism and feedback as they are willing to provide)Finally, once the top two is set, you should try your hardest to get an unpaid internship and try to ace this one.?After you have that internship, you should have 1. volunteer experience with a non-profit doing digital or IT work 2. an internship at a for-profit company doing digital or IT work 3. and a great explanation for why you have a gap in your resume. 2 and 3 are essential to get a full-time job in your situation (but 1 should also significantly increase your chances as a shows a positive character and something interesting to talk about during interviews); and at this stage, you should be somewhat competitive enough to land a fulltime job.@AspinnakerMy first internship was at a local non profit doing some of those things.My second internship was a at a new local companyMy third internship was for my schoolI did many IT and digital marketing stuff in these internships.Since summer of 2011 I've done the following:Three IT projects for my classes directly for parts of school (they couldn't get any of their regular business partners to give them projects).Two digital marketing projects.Then during Masters:The first term I had one project building an e-commerce solutionThe summer term I help build a simulation model and a databaseThe fall term I did web based analytics project and a web coding course.Last Winter I built my website.Then I worked with a former student of my professor help him with his new video hosting site he was trying to launch.I also had to do a database project using Neo4j, which I had to learn how to code from scratch.?I always talk in details about these projects and what I did on them.I always talk about I learned In my classes.I talk about how I was a founding board member of my school's Tedx organization (it was a good amount of work), last year.I always honestly answer the questions.?I've also been told I am not "perfect" enough and just off enough not to be hired.?I also was told by many that I am too rigid, while other have told me I'm not rigid enough during interviews.I'm also been told both that I am too experienced and not experienced enough to hold volunteer positions.When I'm told it's due to being over qualified, it's because the chances of me sticking around is slim.?When I'm told it's a lack of experience, it's because volunteering at a non profit is different that working at a private business.I keep getting conflicting responses.?Believe me I've applied to volunteer positions as well.I was given the opportunities to move across the country for a few internships, but I couldn't afford to move that far away and pay for room and board on $9 hour.?I was offered a $12/hour job many states away, though I had to pay for the relocation with no guarantee of continued employment.?Yes I have done everything that I could do that was suggested to me.?Almost a third of my graduating masters class was unemployed and had been unemployed for over a two years.?Another third was underemployed, in non career/degree related jobs.?So I'm not the only one caught in this horrible cycle.xenocity wrote:They told me GM expects all new hires at entry level to hit the ground running with minimal training.?All these entry level jobs and internships I've been interviewing for, have expected their new hires to know all the stuff without the need of training.Yeah, I encountered that expectation, too. It's just not realistic.I think my first professional job, it took me two years before I was really operating at peak, with a good handle on all aspects of my job. Even my current job, it was nearly a year before I felt competent operating independently.It sucks to be inexperienced. You're stuck in a Catch-22. In order to gain experience, you have to get your foot in the door. But the only way, most of the time, to get your foot in the door is to have experience.I experienced that when I first started working.kraftiekortie wrote:It sucks to be inexperienced. You're stuck in a Catch-22. In order to gain experience, you have to get your foot in the door. But the only way, most of the time, to get your foot in the door is to have experience.I experienced that when I first started working.This was more of a case of the job market collapsing in on its self.For the past few years the country has been essentially in a hiring freeze.I've known plenty of people who were laid off that had lots of trouble finding new jobs.There does seem to be an infuriating anti-sweet-spot of too little experience for some jobs and too much for the rest. I fell into that temporarily due to having a Master's from an extremely prestigious university (so unskilled places put my application in the bin), but places who like that enough to look carefully would see that the dates mean it was clearly a failed PhD (so places wanting good graduates also put it in the bin, even when they would normally like a Master's). Fortunately I did manage to find somewhere eventually. Friends who have done arts PhDs report similar problems - arts subjects are really not in demand, but PhD makes you overqualified for non-academic work.I was stuck in the lack of experience rut for a while but I was able to add three years of working experience on to my resume by temping. Temping can give you a variety of work experience and help you get your foot in the door at some companies. Not to say temping doesn't have it's issues. You have to work for less pay, job assignments aren't always guaranteed, and you do not receive any benefits. But if you can get past the temping period and be hired on through the company, it can pay off. The reason getting work experience through a temp agency is the easiest way to do it is because usually temp jobs are much easier to get then regular permanent jobs and the job requirements for them aren't ridiculous. More and more companies are turning to temp agencies for employees that way they can screen candidates out better and be able to use them for a few months before they decide if they are the right employee for them. Trust me, you are better off not looking for work in the retail/food service industry. You would be better off getting work experience in something administrative which is a field many temp agencies specialize in and many of them work with college grads.pj4990 wrote:There does seem to be an infuriating anti-sweet-spot of too little experience for some jobs and too much for the rest. I fell into that temporarily due to having a Master's from an extremely prestigious university (so unskilled places put my application in the bin), but places who like that enough to look carefully would see that the dates mean it was clearly a failed PhD (so places wanting good graduates also put it in the bin, even when they would normally like a Master's). Fortunately I did manage to find somewhere eventually. Friends who have done arts PhDs report similar problems - arts subjects are really not in demand, but PhD makes you overqualified for non-academic work.Funny enough many jobs now require a masters degree, especially in the IT field.?I only went into the masters program due to the job market being practically non existent.@Homer_Bob.Today's job market is still reeling from the great recession.Most entry level work was wiped out along with internships and jobs held by people 50+.Most jobs now want "industry Experience" instead of general work experience, which makes it all harder.Temp work is also hard to find as well these days.I could go through a state program, but I fear I'd be marked limited my career options.pj4990 wrote:xenocity wrote:Funny enough many jobs now require a masters degree, especially in the IT field.?I only went into the masters program due to the job market being practically non existent.That doesn't surprise me, but my point was that if you look at my CV, there's 3 or 4 years between my undergrad and MSc with nothing else accounting for that time, so clearly I failed a PhD. That makes me far less appealing than someone who set out to do an MSc and succeeded in the normal timeframe. Employers can afford to be very fussy about that.Ah, well I don't have that problem specifically.?For the past few years, if you tried to get an internship, you were expected to have a few years of industry experience under your belt.That's what killed me.It still is that way currently until the market fully recovers.?Like I posted in this thread, the Detroit Tigers require a bachelor's degree for their interns.?So in my case and at least 45% (according to the government) of college grads are unemployed or have been unemployed for over a year if not more.?This has to do with a combination of the job market and the insane demands by employers.This is where I'm at right now. I'm a semester away from graduating with a degree in the humanities and I've never had a job before. My chances of getting hired in the retail, sales, fast food or hospitality industries are slim to none since the laws of my country insist upon me being paid more than a fifteen year old (minimum working age) and it makes good business sense to spend as little money on wages as possible.?Since i'm still studying and can't devote all of my time to working, I definitely have doubts and concerns about my ability to get a more "professional" job that one might expect a university graduate to get. I think that my appearance and tendency to be fairly quiet, independent and a bit socially awkward will count against me as well as my previous lack of any experience.?I do feel very bitter and angry about it at times since I do feel like I have skills and abilities that would be valuable to an employer and there's only so much rejection you can take before it starts feeling personal and like nobody is willing to take a chance on you. I just try to find a healthy outlet for my feelings and to remember that economies tend to go through alternating cycles of prosperity and stagnation and that I am far from being alone in this seemingly never ending job search. It's definitely a difficult thing to deal with and I sympathize with anyone else going through it.xenocity wrote:Let's talk about awfulness of the current experience/inexperience cycle with employers.I've been job hunting for a career job or career internship since 2012 (last career internship was 2011).?I found out I am too inexperienced to get:1) Unpaid internships in IT and digital marketing (my double bachelors and my masters)2) Paid internships in IT and digital marketing?3) Many graduate programs through major fortune 500 companies (you need a few years of industry experience).?4)Entry Level IT and digital marketing jobs (these require at least 3 years industry experience, the degrees (sometimes master and Ph.D level), and/or certifications5) Other levels of IT and digital marketing jobs6) Volunteer work, including local libraries, Red Cross, etc...I am on the other hand too experienced to get:1)Retail jobs of any sort2)Food services3)Other lower end jobsReasons:1) Too smart2) Too much potential?3) Overqualified?4) Other odd reasons hereAnyone else just overly frustrated over the current job prospects?This is the same for everyone (with AS or not) that has 1. A bachelor degree or higher 2. Has been out of work for long than say 6 months. While you may not want to do this - I suggest you take your high degrees OFF Of your resume. Yes. I'm serious. I was putting my MBA on each and every single resume I send out. I was looking for all kinds of jobs. I wasn't looking for finance jobs at all. Mostly administrative Assistant positions. I took my MBA off of my resume and I started to get job interviews like crazy! I was getting about 1 job interview each and every week for about 5 months. Problem is, once the employers saw that I had not been working (full time that is) since 2007 - they wondered what was wrong.?I was volunteering like coo- coo crazy from 2009 to 2014. I did put the volunteering on my resume since I wanted to show the employer that I wasn't sitting on my butt eating bon bons all day long. But I noticed that too much volunteering started to?actually hurt me.?One employer actually told me "So the ONLY thing you have been doing is volunteering for this place for 9 months?" It wasn't like I was there 40 hours a week. I told the lady "I've been also looking for full-time work and I have yet to find paid employment so I keep on volunteering to keep my organizational skills sharp". She looked at me like I was from Mars. She didn't see the value in volunteerism. After that I decided to never go back to that employer since I don't want to work for an employer that does not value volunteerism. (And many employers do have partners where they encourage their employees to volunteer).?I've never heard of anyone being to?inexperienced?to find a volunteer position. That is usually what they want. Someone that know very little so they can train them to do a volunteer job. Of course you are going to have less responsibility on a volunteer job since you are not paid full-time. If you know too much they will say "We need to pay him/her $50K a year for what he knows instead of having this person volunteer for us!"?If you need a job fast and can't wait 2 years or 1 year to get a job in the "field" you desire (like I did(, I'd look for work?outside of the field you desire?just so you can keep your people skills, organizational skills sharp, and show that you are trying.?Employers do not like see to big gaps in your resume.?Try to use key words in your resume. The more key words the better. And use an executive summary in your resume. Don't use an objective. Objectives are done away with since the early 2000s. Employers KNOW that you desire a career using your degree, using the skills set that you have and that you desire a career with increasingly responsibility that leads to management.?Lastly - you got to network with other people that are working full-time. If you know someone that is working - try to get an introduction to the hiring manager at that person's job. I mean an introduction face to face. Many times a person that is unemployed (and the longer a person is unemployed the worse it gets) - this person doesn't know anyone that is employed or doesn't know anyone employed?that is close to where they live.?I don't go to church often so I don't really network. I'm just not that big on churchy stuff, but I'm assuming if I was a churchy kind of person - I may have a greater opportunity to network with other face to face. (Of course, the last church I went to, most of the people there were 70 and over and they don't work and don't know anyone in the area that is working). Meet with someone close to where you live. Having a friend in New York that is employed isn't really going to help your case if you are in Nevada. You need to be able to network face to face with others that live within 25 miles from you. You don't want to have to travel 80 miles to network with someone.?Networking online at LinkedIn is good if you have a friend that is working and if that friend knows the hiring manager - then your friend might be able to introduce you to the hiring team. It depends on the level of your friend and how close he is to the management.?If you want to get into IT, you can read magazines on IT and how the IT world is changing. Often times magazines have articles about business and the changes that businesses are making. Keep track of the changes that way when you apply to that job/employer you can mention in the cover letter "I remember reading an article in ABC magazine that your processes for XYZ changed in 2012 and that management wanted to find better ways to save money with this new process. I read in 2014 that production costs were down 30% due to the recent changes . . ." saying stuff like this get's the attention of the hiring manager or HR - since you are focusing on THEIR industry and on THEIR products (or services). They want to know why they should hire you and talking about what interests them - is how to get the job.?Sometimes you can get the magazines for free. It depends. I went to TradePub dot com when I was earning my MBA so I could write perfect reports on businesses - since my degree was - on business. I got Human Resource Management for free for about 3 years. If you are looking for work and want to get "in" the business without working for them then you will likely need to spend about 10 hours a week reading about the employer(s) you desire to work for. Identify what employer you'd like to work for that way you can narrow your search down or else you'd be too tired to read every single thing. Start with 5 employers that you really want to work for.?Looking for work in the 2010 is not the same as it was in the late 1990s. I used to be able to fax my resume out to 100 employers in one week and I'd get 10 phone calls within two days. It all changed around 2008 or so when I noticed pretty much everything was "apply online". But applying online only usually will not get you the job since there are 100 other people exactly like you that have the exact same degree and experience and they want to know "What set's you apart from the other 99 people?"?I've heard the economy is coming back. I have heard that at least 5 times in 2014. I've seem those "Made in America" special news reports as well. Although many of those jobs are not anywhere I live, I do believe the economy is coming back slowly. Keep looking for work. I apply to 20 - 30 jobs a week and so far I got two phone calls. I use Indeed dot com. I don't really use any other place. But I also try to network with others as much as I can. I was told from one employer to go to one of their partners. I couldn't believe this employer called me into interview with them and looked at my resume for all of 5 seconds and saw that I had not working in real estate since 2004 and told me to go to "so and so" (their partner). It wasn't in the line of work I wanted to work in, but I went anyway and when I went it was a blessing to me. No clue if this other place is going to call me but it got me an additional informal interview.?Don't give the person you are interviewing with a reason to?fear you.?If the person you are interviewing with has a degree lower than yours they may be thinking "This person has a Masters degree. If this person is hired, they will take?my job?and then I'll be out of work". I've noticed to keep my mouth shut about my MBA on my resume and for now, it seems to work. I don't want to scare anyone.?Hope this helps.melmaclorelai wrote:I do feel very bitter and angry about it at times since I do feel like I have skills and abilities that would be valuable to an employer and there's only so much rejection you can take before it starts feeling personal and like nobody is willing to take a chance on you. I just try to find a healthy outlet for my feelings and to remember that economies tend to go through alternating cycles of prosperity and stagnation and that I am far from being alone in this seemingly never ending job search. It's definitely a difficult thing to deal with and I sympathize with anyone else going through it.yep, I know that feeling. I was very angry in and around 2011 since I was out of work for several years and I was applying to jobs like crazy (about 400 a year or more) and I hardly got any interviews. My anger grew and grew and grew. Others started to notice my anger. Something happened in 2012 where I was told from a friend she noticed I was so angry. What I noticed was the more angry I got, the more I kept people away from me. But I totally get it that you can only take so much rejection after rejection. Now I just bless them and I mean it. I don't say a prayer for them, I just bow. I bow in respect knowing that someone else was picked to fill that position and I affirm that there is a job around the corner for me - a job that pays more - a job that is closer to home and a job that has better working hrs and a great team of people. I've also noticed that the more positive vibes I give out - the more I get in return.?I was told from someone that was in a very high IT managerial position that most companies hire the most employee in the first quarter of the year. Now I'm not sure if this is true or not since many of the jobs I've applied for are in local city or county government (and many times they do a LOT of hiring right after the fiscal years starts in August each year), but perhaps it is true that many companies hire in the 1st quarter of the year. Plus we have high school students graduating in May/June and I'm sure many of those are going to be hitting the pavement like crazy come June/July. Perhaps getting an annual report of the company will help? That way you may know where the money is flowing in the company?kraftiekortie wrote:It sucks to be inexperienced. You're stuck in a Catch-22. In order to gain experience, you have to get your foot in the door. But the only way, most of the time, to get your foot in the door is to have experience.I experienced that when I first started working.I had this as well when I was 18. I hated this. I often said "don't people know that I'm 18 fresh out of high school?" I found a job as a security guard and then went to temporary agencies when they used to take people with no work experience. Now temp agencies don't want you unless you worked in the last 6 months.xenocity wrote:@AspinnakerMy first internship was at a local non profit doing some of those things.My second internship was a at a new local companyMy third internship was for my schoolI did many IT and digital marketing stuff in these internships.Since summer of 2011 I've done the following:Three IT projects for my classes directly for parts of school (they couldn't get any of their regular business partners to give them projects).Two digital marketing projects.Then during Masters:The first term I had one project building an e-commerce solutionThe summer term I help build a simulation model and a databaseThe fall term I did web based analytics project and a web coding course.Last Winter I built my website.Then I worked with a former student of my professor help him with his new video hosting site he was trying to launch.I also had to do a database project using Neo4j, which I had to learn how to code from scratch.?So I'm not the only one caught in this horrible cycle.Did you happen to get a letter of recommendation from ANY of the supervisors above??With all of the internships you've done - man you've done a LOT - I would think that you have at least?ONE good letter of recommendation. If you don't have one - you need to go back to those companies and talk to the person you worked for and ask them for a letter of reference.?Also: If you haven't done this yet - go to LinkedIn and create a profile and?detail every single job and internship you've had in IT or anything having to do with IT.?This will make others in IT see you and your set of skills and they will see where you live.?Make sure you have a good picture of yourself as well.Footballgirl2013 wrote:xenocity wrote:@AspinnakerMy first internship was at a local non profit doing some of those things.My second internship was a at a new local companyMy third internship was for my schoolI did many IT and digital marketing stuff in these internships.Since summer of 2011 I've done the following:Three IT projects for my classes directly for parts of school (they couldn't get any of their regular business partners to give them projects).Two digital marketing projects.Then during Masters:The first term I had one project building an e-commerce solutionThe summer term I help build a simulation model and a databaseThe fall term I did web based analytics project and a web coding course.Last Winter I built my website.Then I worked with a former student of my professor help him with his new video hosting site he was trying to launch.I also had to do a database project using Neo4j, which I had to learn how to code from scratch.?So I'm not the only one caught in this horrible cycle.Did you happen to get a letter of recommendation from ANY of the supervisors above??With all of the internships you've done - man you've done a LOT - I would think that you have at least?ONE good letter of recommendation. If you don't have one - you need to go back to those companies and talk to the person you worked for and ask them for a letter of reference.?Also: If you haven't done this yet - go to LinkedIn and create a profile and?detail every single job and internship you've had in IT or anything having to do with IT.?This will make others in IT see you and your set of skills and they will see where you live.?Make sure you have a good picture of yourself as well.Employers don't give out letters of recommendations, they just give good references when called.?I've never had a company ask for a letter of recommendation, just references of sorts.I have a very detailed LinkedIn profile and my own website (which I am in the process of updating).?Despite my projects/course work, internships, and software I've learned. it's still not enough (yes I have been told this in nearly every interview).?The problem is:1) The projects/course work is not considered "industry" experienced since it was done at University not at a job2) Each company has their own software and/or uses a different software. Therefore it is impossible to learn all the software in the world and especially proprietary software a company may use.?3)Employers look at the fact you have no internships since Summer of 2011, as something being wrong with you.?Well it's not my fault there were very few internships available requiring years of work experience in order to be hired.Yeah I wasn't qualified for anymore internships!4) Companies don't want train new hires, so you are expected to know what technologies companies use when hired in, without time to learn it. This is called "hitting the ground running!"If this was the 90s or early 2000s, I would a desired candidate for most industry jobs.The great recession that started in 2008, changed everything for the worst.This is why I've been rejected every time.ou sound very similar to me. My major is digital media and web technologies with a minor in graphic design. I've been putting my efforts into building a fantastic portfolio and looking for internships or volunteer positions before I graduate. I'm in my senior year, so something needs to give soon. I've had 4 interviews this week.I once had the opportunity to overhear interviewers talk about the other candidates before I went in to interview. It was a Drupal CMS content developer internship for NIH. Even at the internship level, they had guys who had been using Drupal for 4-7 years! It's a bit intimidating to go into an interview to an internship and find out the competition should by all rights be working a "real job". It didn't leave me very excited for my future prospects.MY ADVICE:Geeksquad doesn't require any A+ certifications or Microsoft certifications. It's not exactly what you want, but it will give you steady work history in the IT field.1. Join a meetup group for small business or startups. 2. Go to the meet-ups 3. Give them your business card and try to network. I usually only go to the ones that have a presenter speaking because it's too much for me to handle if it's just socializing.SDerailed wrote:You sound very similar to me. My major is digital media and web technologies with a minor in graphic design. I've been putting my efforts into building a fantastic portfolio and looking for internships or volunteer positions before I graduate. I'm in my senior year, so something needs to give soon. I've had 4 interviews this week.I once had the opportunity to overhear interviewers talk about the other candidates before I went in to interview. It was a Drupal CMS content developer internship for NIH. Even at the internship level, they had guys who had been using Drupal for 4-7 years! It's a bit intimidating to go into an interview to an internship and find out the competition should by all rights be working a "real job". It didn't leave me very excited for my future prospects.MY ADVICE:Geeksquad doesn't require any A+ certifications or Microsoft certifications. It's not exactly what you want, but it will give you steady work history in the IT field.1. Join a meetup group for small business or startups. 2. Go to the meet-ups 3. Give them your business card and try to network. I usually only go to the ones that have a presenter speaking because it's too much for me to handle if it's just socializing.I failed to get hired at Best Buy...I've done practically everything career people have told me and nothing has worked yet...SDerailed wrote:Are there any work share type places in your area? Basically it's a firm that does all the advertising and drumming up of sales for freelancers in the area. They are usually looking for digital marketers or freelancers of that sort.None that I know.Like i've said before, a 1/3rd of fellow classmates were unemployed and another 1/3rd were underemployed.t might be worth looking into. After 2 years of dealing with what you are going through, I found a company that was willing to take me on this week. Since it's more a hub of freelancers, they are more willing to take a chance on you. There's less of a commitment to keeping you if you bomb a project. I've found no corporate type companies willing to make that kind of a risk.The White-Guy Jobs Deficit - Bloomberg ViewInteresting analysis and from my experience, is probably true and worse than expected. I am from a blue collar, primarily white area, and after the recession, many white men in manufacturing and mining just gave up. Job losses were most severe in male (often white male) dominated industries, and many of these industries haven't or won't recover.This should come as a surprise to nobody.Count the undocumented. That's where you'll find the location of the jobs.Count how many companies left the USA for other nations with cheaper labor where they didn't need to pay for or offer healthcare insurance. That's where you will find all the other jobs.Originally Posted by?timberline742?It has nothing to do with how much melatonin is in their skin, it has to do with skill set and willingness (or ability) to move. That simple.The bolded is correct, the rest of your statement is not. Their skill set and willingness to work is just as good as it was before the recession. The jobs are no longer there however, or if they are they are being taken by people from the third world who are willing to take much lower wages because even a lower class existence in America is much better than the abject poverty they experienced in their home country. So these displaced American workers are supposed to just accept the fact that their new standard of living is now just one step above what one could expect if they were living in a ghetto in Venezuela. And from (what I assume to be)your perch you tell them they just need to hustle up. You better hope that branch you're perched on is as sturdy as you think it is or someone might be yelling down at you to hustle up one day.?Well if you're well educated and skilled why would you want to work hard labor and service industry jobs??All that education and learning new skills attained for NOTHING. And mainly the only jobs being "created" are crappy dead end low pay jobs or a bunch of unstable contract work with a temp to hire program where there is never a hire. :roll eyes:The labor market is crap despite what the liberal CNN media will have you believe. And even if you manage to grab a career, you end up getting lowballed on the salary because the employers now know they control the market.?Jobs that used to pay well are either:1. Gone to China or Mexico?2. Do not pay as well as before because corporations have found they have all the control and can offer what they want as some poor sucker will take it .The jobs data from the BLS is just a joke.They never mention the pay for these jobs.Almost all are part time, low paying gigs or worse. Manufacturing or factory jobs would be far better to have. Driving a car for Uber sounds nice, but pays little.Is it better to spend all your time and energy working a full time at a minimum wage retail job and job search in your spare time or to not work at all and devote all your time and energy to finding a decent job? I have a little bit of savings to live off. I've been searching for a job full-time for a month now and I've gotten 1 interview from a staffing agency and a couple of emails. That's it! I don't think I can take this for 1 or 2 more months...I would take the retail job too. Yes you have savings, but why burn through that when you are able to work? What if an emergency need for extra money occurs? Also, I can't imagine working will hurt your resume more than a gap. You may find it much easy to get interviews if you are already employed as well.?I can't really see any advantage to continuing to do a "full time" job search actually, when you can easily fill out a handful of apps daily in a matter of an hour or so. Good luck!I would look for something part-time office related if possible. You'll have better flexibility when it comes to interviewing for FT positions and it will look more favorable on your resume should you happen to go a few more months without proper full time employment. As someone who was very successful doing retail while going to school, I can assure you that retail, in general, isn't well respected or appreciated by many employers, unless you're considering a career in retail management, call center work, or another retail job.My family and I are finally in the position to relocate out of state, but I'm wondering if we are going about searching for a job the right way. I know some people are lucky enough to be able to transfer within the company they work for to a different location out of state, but that is not the case for us.?My fiance tells me that some places will give interviews over the phone, but I've known people who had to drive 15 or more hours for an out of state job interview, who didn't even get the job, so I'm wondering what to expect at this point.?I've seen people post on here about getting call backs for jobs unexpectedly and never having to go to an interview at all, just pack and go. That would be lovely if that happened, but is that likely? My fiance has put in several online applications for jobs he is qualified (and sometimes overqualified) for, but he has received no calls or even e-mail responses letting him know they filled the position or anything. I'm used to him always receiving a reply even when he didn't get the job when he applies locally, so I'm wondering if it has something to do with applying online? Do employers often not want to hire people from out of state? Does being out of state look bad on his applications? Is there another way we should be going about this? Perhaps most importantly... What did *you* do to get a job out of state so you could move?My fiance has to have a job before we move, because we have an 18 month old, so being adventurous (irresponsible) really isn't an option.??We will be moving from Oklahoma City to Oregon. And yes, I am aware of the job market (or lack there of) in the area, but that isn't the focus of my post.Employers are very reluctant to hire people from out of state since there are so many factors related to relocation. Even if he is qualified or over qualified his resume is likely going into the trash due to his address.?He could try a few things. Call Human Resources directly and explain that he is planning on relocating and see if they are interested. Connect with other employees of a company he's interested in on a site like Linkedin and try to get into a company that way. Plan a trip to physically pound the pavement, set up appointments with human resources to bring by his resume. I'm not sure what field he's in, but you can also try a Head Hunter to advocate for him. Good Luck!I have easily been offered jobs out of state, and had telephone interviews. No problems. I have even asked for relocation costs, no harm asking.Originally Posted by?LivingDeadGrrl?PatRoy1: Thanks for your reply. I'm not entirely sure what made you think my fiance doesn't have a college education. I must admit, I'm a bit lost. I was simply responding to Sarah's question, and once again yes, regardless of his education or skills, I know he would take any job he needed to in order to get us there. He would then job hunt for a better, more suitable job once we got there. Right now his only focus is to pay bills and get us there.??I don't think it is reasonable to even assume that the perfect job there is obtainable from here, or that he could find the perfect job within a decent time frame if he went there for a few weeks himself.I live in an area of Southern California with an unusually high unemployment rate, and I think you'll find that there is actually more competition for those $8 an hour jobs that anyone can do, than for more specialized jobs. It may seem unbelievable, but when you have a lot of unemployed people, many get to the point where they're willing to "take anything" - even those with an education and years of experience. And employers in most cases, would prefer to hire someone who is really suited to that $8 a hour job, rather than someone over-qualified, who only wants the job, until he or she finds something better. Oregon's unemployment rate is better than where I live, but it's still 9.4%, which is high.In other words, I would encourage your husband to spend most of his time looking for jobs he's qualified for - and where his skills will be valued. He'll probably have much better luck, than if he applies for jobs where he's overqualified. And if he wants them to hire him while he's out-of-state? Well that only happens if your occupation is a specialized one!Good luck!I think looking for jobs as an out-of-stater is a huge waste of time for the vast majority of fields. How bad do you really want to move? Will you be willing to do whatever it takes?Save up, move to city, job hunt.?I have had dozens of phone interviews from out of state, but as soon as they find out I'm not in the city and that I haven't moved yet, I either get a dial tone or "call us when you get here". Best thing to do if you can't transfer is just save up enough to live off for a period of time, then don't be too picky once in the new city. Secure employment, then once you have it, you can start looking for better employment.Honestly, it really looks like there two options for many of us: unemployed or a bad job.I was happy to get my present job at first. For the first 6 months or so. Before the reality of the toxic atmosphere sunk in. Things did start off all right... the bosses and coworkers put on their best face for a bit. Then there are things like no raises. Ever. For anybody. Low salaries. And the list goes on.I am keeping my eyes open for another job. Of course, I can never judge the work environment with just a walk through to the conference room for the interview.John in MD in Catonsville, Maryland said:?Honestly, it really looks like there two options for many of us: unemployed or a bad job.I was happy to get my present job at first. For the first 6 months or so. Before the reality of the toxic atmosphere sunk in. Things did start off all right... the bosses and coworkers put on their best face for a bit. Then there are things like no raises. Ever. For anybody. Low salaries. And the list goes on.I am keeping my eyes open for another job. Of course, I can never judge the work environment with just a walk through to the conference room for the interview.I absolutely agree with you, John. I think that, for a lot of the reasons that people have brought up on this board (such as, for instance, age discrimination, work gaps, etc.), many of us knocked out of the job market during the last economic downturn are not likely going to be able to fully recover. We have to take what we can get.?My experience matches up with your point about not being able to tell what a work environment is like just from what you see during an interview. So many times, over the years that I've been out of work, jobs/temp assignments/temp agencies that seemed to be decent places to work have turned out to be anything but!gulag in Norristown, Pennsylvania said:?My experience matches up with your point about not being able to tell what a work environment is like just from what you see during an interview. So many times, over the years that I've been out of work, jobs/temp assignments/temp agencies that seemed to be decent places to work have turned out to be anything but!Years ago, working as a temp was a different story. You had a chance to "try before you buy" then. Many places were a joy to work for and others were terrible and I was glad that I wasn't a permanent employee at them.Today, you just hope that you aren't applying for a job that was previously done by 3 other people before the last downsize. Seems everybody wants a "One Man Band" now.How does everyone here cope with service oriented jobs (food service, etc.)? They seem to be the easiest jobs to get, yet they rely too much on quick thinking, problem solving, multitasking and from what I know, they're full of snotty people who don't like their jobs and choose to take it out on everyone else.??My summer job last year was at a popular coffee chain, and it was pure hell. At first, I was pretty optimistic that I was going into a supportive environment, as the application clearly stated that they were an equal opportunity employer. I took it out of this optimism and the fact that it was the only place that offered me a job.?The biggest obstacle I have as someone with AS is that I absolutely suck at multitasking...and this job depended on it. Although I was quick at filling orders and ringing them out, problems arose when someone was talking to me WHILE I was doing something with my hands. Autistic author Donna Williams has described this phenomenon and identified it within herself as 'monotrack': or being able to focus on only one aspect of the environment at a given time: in this case, if I was focused on the customer and their orders, I'd completely tune out a co-worker talking to me .?To make things worse, most of the people there (with the exception of 2-3) were bitter and disillusioned, and they always criticised me and harshly reprimanded me for doing something wrong instead of guiding me.?Because I'm so used to things going smoothly, if something unknown came up or if I got an order wrong, the panic button in my head would immedately beg to be pressed because there were often customers waiting and that's all I would think about. That's another thing...I'm horrible at problem solving quickly, and it's not like I could ask for anyone's help because everyone else had orders to fill...and whenever I asked (which I had to do A LOT) they groaned and complained.?The worst part was working with one of the supervisors I had, who quite frankly, was the most harsh, cold-hearted person person I have ever met, and I've met many of them! It was basically an echo of the teachers I had in grade school all over again, which was also hell. She would never address me in a calm manner: she'd yell at me abruptly, and always talk while I was doing a task. She would state over and over that I "just didn't listen" although I DID listen. She'd interpret my rigid, highly obedient behaviour towards her as arrogance, but really, it was anxiety because she scared the s*** out of me. How else was I supposed to behave towards someone who would blow a fuse at any moment??She threw a tantrum (yes, she had tantrums) once when I was one minute late, and yet another one when a task I was supposed to do slipped my mind. And when I put the bread in the toaster the wrong way once, she hit me! Some other similar incidents happened...one of her tantrums made me reach my breaking point, and I walked out. A meeting happened after with the manager and this supervisor, she cried through this meeting (wtf?) and the issue was solved by me not being on her shifts. I mentioned I had an anxiety disorder but not AS (which is semi-true...I'm good with social skills but less so with managing anxiety).?I quit a few days later because of the stress of seeing her during the swift switch (I didn't tell them that, of course). There was no "Thanks for working with us" or anything like that, the supervisor on shift (a different one, but who also had a grudge against me) was just like "Ok. Bye. Click." And this is the food service industry we're talking about here. Whatever happened to service with a smile??/rant?/tangent?Being monotrack has been a huge problem for me ever since I was a kid. My tearful first words coming off the school bus were "Mommy, the teacher told me that I wasn't paying attention". When I had the falling out with my supervisor, my mom noticed that it was an echo of what I experienced when I was six. She also said that it could be a power issue and that maybe she felt intimidated by me as I'm in university and she was a 40 year old working class mom doing it to support her kids.?Does anyone relate or have similar experiences to share? Does anyone else share my difficulties with information processing at work or less than optimal supervisors/bosses? If so, how do you cope?Yes, this is a problem for me at my current job, where I sell various stuff, I can really do only one thing at a time, otherwise I get stuck, forget what I'm supposed to do, like a little system crash, I try to keep it as simple and monotrack as possible but sometimes it's just not possible.Your experiences were exactly like mine. I cannot mutitask, at least not in a food service environment. I realized several years ago that I simply cannot function in those sorts of jobs. I was called every name in the book by customers as well as coworkers. However my experience convinced me that I had to obtain higer education so that I wouldn't be stuck with those sorts of jobs. Not putting down people who do these jobs well, I have much respect for them and admire how they can continue to serve the public well under these pressures.??It is just not and never will be one of my strengths.anneurysm wrote:How does everyone here cope with service oriented jobs (food service, etc.)? They seem to be the easiest jobs to get, yet they rely too much on quick thinking, problem solving, multitasking and from what I know, they're full of snotty people who don't like their jobs and choose to take it out on everyone else.?My summer job last year was at a popular coffee chain, and it was pure hell. At first, I was pretty optimistic that I was going into a supportive environment, as the application clearly stated that they were an equal opportunity employer. I took it out of this optimism and the fact that it was the only place that offered me a job.The biggest obstacle I have as someone with AS is that I absolutely suck at multitasking...and this job depended on it. Although I was quick at filling orders and ringing them out, problems arose when someone was talking to me WHILE I was doing something with my hands. Autistic author Donna Williams has described this phenomenon and identified it within herself as 'monotrack': or being able to focus on only one aspect of the environment at a given time: in this case, if I was focused on the customer and their orders, I'd completely tune out a co-worker talking to me .?To make things worse, most of the people there (with the exception of 2-3) were bitter and disillusioned, and they always criticised me and harshly reprimanded me for doing something wrong instead of guiding me.Because I'm so used to things going smoothly, if something unknown came up or if I got an order wrong, the panic button in my head would immedately beg to be pressed because there were often customers waiting and that's all I would think about. That's another thing...I'm horrible at problem solving quickly, and it's not like I could ask for anyone's help because everyone else had orders to fill...and whenever I asked (which I had to do A LOT) they groaned and complained.The worst part was working with one of the supervisors I had, who quite frankly, was the most harsh, cold-hearted person person I have ever met, and I've met many of them! It was basically an echo of the teachers I had in grade school all over again, which was also hell. She would never address me in a calm manner: she'd yell at me abruptly, and always talk while I was doing a task. She would state over and over that I "just didn't listen" although I DID listen. She'd interpret my rigid, highly obedient behaviour towards her as arrogance, but really, it was anxiety because she scared the s*** out of me. How else was I supposed to behave towards someone who would blow a fuse at any moment?She threw a tantrum (yes, she had tantrums) once when I was one minute late, and yet another one when a task I was supposed to do slipped my mind. And when I put the bread in the toaster the wrong way once, she hit me! Some other similar incidents happened...one of her tantrums made me reach my breaking point, and I walked out. A meeting happened after with the manager and this supervisor, she cried through this meeting (wtf?) and the issue was solved by me not being on her shifts. I mentioned I had an anxiety disorder but not AS (which is semi-true...I'm good with social skills but less so with managing anxiety).I quit a few days later because of the stress of seeing her during the swift switch (I didn't tell them that, of course). There was no "Thanks for working with us" or anything like that, the supervisor on shift (a different one, but who also had a grudge against me) was just like "Ok. Bye. Click." And this is the food service industry we're talking about here. Whatever happened to service with a smile?/rant/tangentBeing monotrack has been a huge problem for me ever since I was a kid. My tearful first words coming off the school bus were "Mommy, the teacher told me that I wasn't paying attention". When I had the falling out with my supervisor, my mom noticed that it was an echo of what I experienced when I was six. She also said that it could be a power issue and that maybe she felt intimidated by me as I'm in university and she was a 40 year old working class mom doing it to support her kids.Does anyone relate or have similar experiences to share? Does anyone else share my difficulties with information processing at work or less than optimal supervisors/bosses? If so, how do you cope?I remember a thread you started, which had people wondering what your AS characteristics were, because you seemed so NT. I guess this topic answers that!??I go to Starbucks quite often, and often think, "Oh man, I wouldn't survive here one minute!" I once had a job at the ice cream counter in a diner. I had to make all the sundaes, keep the ice cream and related supplies stocked, AND work the cash register. If things were slow, it wasn't too bad. But when a table of six decided that they each wanted their own unique banana split, and I ran out of peanut-butter mint chunk ice-cream half-way through, and the register tape jammed in the machine, and the phone was ringing...well, then it was HORRIBLE. Suddenly, the manager and a couple of waitresses would start buzzing around me, getting my job done for me, and the manager would be apologizing to customers left and right. When it all calmed down again, my coworkers would glare at me, and the boss would make a curt comment about speeding it up next time.?There was one snooty waitress who would come behind the counter to make sundaes for her customers when I was busy, and she'd get all upset that there was a slop of syrup on the counter. I mean, excuse me for living, but I'm in the middle of making three ice-cream sundaes, and if I stop to wipe up every little speck of syrup once a minute, you all would be on my case for not getting the customers' food to them in the blink of an eye! The problem was that she really was the type of person who was able to keep the counter spotless and do everything else all at once. In fact, most of the others were too, but they weren't as mean. When things got quiet, this one would go on and on about how I was making everyone else's job so hard.?So, hurrah for people who have the ability to be all powerful all the time. The only tolerable thing about that job was that I could make myself a sundae for lunch. Then again, that was the only kind of job I was "qualified for", despite having been in the military.?As far as coping, well...I can't help you there. I never learned how to cope with that. I know now to think twice before getting a job that involves multi-tasking, but is there any job like that?Hello Anneurysm (good nickname!),?I've done quite a few jobs like that. I've worked as a volunteer day camp counselor, served hot and cold food (and beer) behind concession stand counters, sold things over the phone (to individuals and companies), taken surveys over the phone (ditto), worked retail in a computer bookstore and collected debts, among other things.?Multitasking is a major issue with me as well. Monotracking has caused me grief especially in retail and similar work, where customers want to be served right away and don't always care that you're in the middle of something else.?That said, I don't blame the bosses who ask people to multitask - time, after all, is money. On the one hand, studies are showing that multitasked work is often not done as well as monotracked. On the other hand, sometimes the people who sign your paycheck (directly or indirectly) would rather have it done right now than perfectly a week, a day or even an hour from now. As General Patton is supposed to have said: "A good solution applied with vigor now is better than a perfect solution applied ten minutes later.”?That said, there are good, not so good and totally unacceptable ways for supervisors to drive this point (and other points, such as about punctuality and making sure everything gets done)home. Yelling and verbal abuse is wrong (albeit it does vary by local standards; a business office is generally more genteel than a kitchen or a construction site).?This goes for teachers, too - and I've had more than a few who hated my guts and let everyone know it. I'm very sorry about your experiences with teachers. I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S., more than a few teachers come from the half (of their college classes) that made the top half possible, if you get my meaning.?Anywhere, anytime, hitting is absolutely, positively unacceptable, not to mention illegal. It's assault and battery, and people go to jail for that.?These jobs seem to be the easiest ones to get because increasingly the "backroom" jobs are being outsourced. Employers are realizing that if it can be solved from across the hall, it can be solved from across town, across the country...and across the globe. The jobs that stay in the First World, as far as I can tell, are predominantly those which involve solving people's problems face to face.?If I may give one other tip, to whoever could use it: if you quit a job, try to do it in person. Give them a resignation letter, saying?only?that you are leaving and what date your last day will be. If you're in the U.S., custom dictates (unless you have a labor contract that says differently) that you give two weeks' notice. (Of course, if you have a compelling reason such as that your mother just got in an accident and is hospitalized and you need to attend to her, and long-term unpaid leave is out of the question, then quitting immediately may be understandable.)?Even if the people there were horrible, stick to the fact that you're leaving and when. Don't discuss any negative stuff even if they're completely wrong. (And that holds true if they have an exit interview too - even if they?askyou if you have any complaints, don't give any. Treat it as an attitude test.) Remember, anyone who wants to hire you in future is likely to talk to them first.?Good luck Anneurysm!I worked some service jobs. They maxed and stressed me out but I needed a job or at least pretend I want money. They discouraged my work ethic early on and I grew a resentment towards employment.?Employers require multitasking because people can do it and are willing to do it for dirt cheap. THerefore as a customer I now demand it when I pay for something.?NT's have trouble too with this. My wife worked as a waitress at Denny's before asking to go to the kitchen. Even with a loss in tip money she saw she would not keep it for long even though its N.T.?I would advise to go to school but it did not help me in this economy.??Sometimes in life you have to be cynical and suck it up. Yes it is unprofessional if people yell at you but it is your job and you do it. THe customer is always right. I worked in a place once where a manager can come to help as long as you are polite back. The manger asked the customer if it would be ok if I went in his office and yelled at him. He was shocked but I guess people feel entitled and view service workers as lesser beings and not professionals. At least the experience teaches us not to become like these people. Especially this is true when we work our way up.?If you can at least get an associates and learn to type and use MS Office you can work entry level jobs in the office. There are social skills required but at least you do not have that extreme pressure and you will typically get paid more. An associates is really not hard. I was told I would never go to college and I successfully got a bachelors.One of the biggest things I've notice in the workplace today is that they want everyone to act the same and be the same. No individuality wanted.Burt Lange in Albany, New York said:?One of the biggest things I've notice in the workplace today is that they want everyone to act the same and be the same. No individuality wanted.I'm not sure if employers should be blamed for that when people are suspicious of individuality outside of the workplace. In America, individualism is only tolerated among a narrow group of people as long as that narrow group of people is making a lot of money.AndyRising in a State of Bliss said:I was out shopping today and saw Help Wanted signs at two Staples, a Baymont Inn, a grocery , and some fast food places. I'm not above applying to work at places like that, though I know my self-esteem would take a severe hit...am I going to have to go back to some part-time minimum wage job? It becoming more and more difficult to keep looking for jobs and not to simply say, oh, they'll just reject me.Similar situation, and I have tried applying with Staples (multiple locations/multiple positions), hotels, grocery and chain pharmacy stores, big box retailers, etcWon't hire me, over qualified...say I am a hiring risk because I will just keep looking and find something better nearer to my career level.Still looking since July 2014Greetings all.?I come across so many incidents of Aspies being persecuted in workplaces that I just had to start a thread about this subject. To it all I could add my own experience of having fought a wrongful dismissal suit, its reasoning borne of nothing more than my sociall "difference".?It appears that upper managements in most if not all companies have a common trait in their modus operandi and that the "polyticks" and "procedures" include bullying and then wrongfully dismissing certain individuals based on their vulnerabilities, their "not fitting in", and their perceived "unsuitability" of being any value to the employer.?I would like to take this time to relate to you a conversation I overheard one day while I bottled my batch of beer at one of those You-Brew places. As I bottled my beer (long and time-consuming process) another brewer yammered away next to me with the store's owner about having a brother who was an upper manager of a company. The man related very graphically about how this brother was sent (and?paid?by his employer) to a school for people in upper management for "training" in "managing" people????In a nutshell, the course ought to have been called: How to be an @sshole????The "training" included about how to undermine employees' reputations unbeknownst to them, how to "prove" all sorts of evidence against them, and how to present the allegations to them in a bombshell so there is no real recourse or any chance for the employees to defend themselves. That was their way to weed out the "undesirables" from the company ranks. The man did end the conversation with a phrase: "someday, it will all blow up in his face".?That story echoed my own experience working in a nursing home in a lot of ways. Obviously, my own story is not unique and now on this forum, Corporate Fascism reigns like an epidemic unto itself.?The evil of corporations.?Papillon, have you considered becoming a Socialist.?Socialism is a belief that resources should be divided fairly. All enterprise should be owned by the people that work in them, rather than lazy rich shareholders. Just imagine working for an organisation where you have a say in how that organisation is ran, rather than being ordered around by a manager.?Think about it. It is worth considering.The problem is that much management only tend to reach the position that they are in through strong social networking and careful attention to their career (irrespective of the impact on others). This means that often their behaviour is not totally rational.?It's not always like that, but a good management team will critically look to see if a person is the best person for a role, and if necessary seek to replace them. While this is bad for the individual concerned, it can make the difference between the company surviving and succeeding or failing, particularly in a small company.One of the reasons I like working in IT is because Aspies tend to be tolerated a lot more. Some people would complain about the Geek stereotype. Not me, it provides a template of expectation for NTs to understand AS, even if that perspective is skewed a little.?I once worked at one place where employees were not?allowed?to talk to each other in work time, where all comunication had to be via a rigid computer system (not even email) and everyone had their own cubicle with 6ft high walls.?That really wasn't so bad, just a shame they wanted me to work on obsolesent technology, or I would have stayed on..?Obviously, it drove the NTs mad, as they hated not being able to gossip about Eastenders all day long..?I no longer think that way. Not having worked in a government agency. I have been studying them, and I think it is the other way around. None of these guys own the government, yet I had the same problems (worse) with them. The same problems occur in most companys and governments. It's called line management. Organization by a tree structure.?The managers who make the most trouble don't own the company. Sometimes, they are actually put in to ensure that the resources are distributed "fairly." However, they have no stake in the workers productivity. They evaluate the people under them. They solve problems.?It is important to realize that they have to fill out performance evaluations too. They are rated according to the perception of their capability. Socialist, fascist, democratic, corporate, religious,... the middle manager has to prove that he is doing something. They then have to make problems if there are none.?They get points on their performance if they solve problems, get rid of trouble employees, move peoples offices, and if the office has a high rate of turnover. They get paid according to how many workers they manage, not on the productivity of each worker. Remember they don't own it. The owner or the voter or the dictator get all their information filtered by the managers. So the middle manager can manipulate them; flatter them, tell them lies, etc.?So managers have an incentive to make problems, call people troublesome and then get rid of them. They throw away anyone who doesn't praise them openly and constantly, and fill the spaces with their own buddies. They also have an incentive to make more paperwork and to make extra levels of management beneath them. If the employee is too busy with paperwork and fails, it is the employees fault. The middle manager found the problem by requiring more paperwork.?Anarchy and matrix management have fewer of these problems, for short periods, but are intrinsically unstable. Historically, anarchy almost right away becomes feudalism (i.e., extreme line management). One troublemaker in a matrix managed company can bring down the whole organization. Line management seems to be the most stable form of organization. It sometimes works well. But often line managers get ahead by being jerks, not by raising productivity.?RobertN wrote:The evil of corporations.Just imagine working for an organisation where you have a say in how that organisation is ran, rather than being ordered around by a manager.Personally I like the idea of small co-ops, under a federal system and with no-one becoming a charismatic personality.?The same problems have come up in evry job I've been in, but usually for different reasons, some managers are target obsessed, some want to prove they are troubleshooters, some they are man-managers, etc. I think as most managers are NT and seem to thrive in an environment where reality is flexible, but people are not ( in the mindset of the manager) then people must go. The things people will do to make an extra few pounds, have a bigger car, or seem to others to be closer to the core of things never fails to amaze. My ex-wife was trained in sales by a leading newspaper company (before I knew her) and when she later took another sales job and her training resurfaced I could not recognise the person I married. Essentially any sense of morality went out the window, she would ask questions to get agreement and then use this as a way of getting continued agreement (cheap brainwashing techniwue, but so f****ing effective along with her other bits and pieces). Her boss was probably the most manipulative person I have come across and had no notion at all of dealing with people, they were obstacles to be negotiated and overcome.?The whole notion of managers as people who HAVE to do things, be it achieve targets, solve problems, whatever, leads to the situations where problems are invented if they are not there. Integrity, stability, fairness, etc all come a poor seconf when you have to prove yourself and when you are in a position of power.Hi! I'm working as a software engineer, and I'm starting to wonder whether it's time to change careers -- not because I've changed, but because the industry has changed.?When I started programming, individual programmers could write entire programs and simple games by themselves without any collaboration or standards to adhere to. You were in control of everything.?I've noticed, however, that things have changed drastically over the past few years.?1. Systems have gotten much more complex and require a lot of collaboration and communication between the various coders to get things done now. There is no longer any such thing as a programmre working by himself.?2. This increased complexity makes it impossible for one person to know the entire system, which leads to confusion and lack of structure since we don't see the big picture.?3. Although lack of structure doesn't matter when you have to deal with simple surgical strikes like a bug fix, almost all of the bug fixing (at least in my company -- I wouldn't be surprised if other companies do the same thing) has been outsourced to India for the past six months. Basically, they are changing my job description to give me just the really "hard" stuff by deliberately removing the stuff I'm best at.?4. Global competition has made everything much more fast-paced and pressure-packed than it was before thanks to the Internet and stuff like that -- technology which didn't exist in the 80's and 90's. Pressure itself is generally not a problem -- but when you have to interact with stressed out people that starts to take a toll.?5. Morale is low because of layoffs across the industry (my company has laid off something like 60% of its workforce over the past few years), and the people who have survived have become cutthroat -- and INCREASINGLY political. There haven't been layoffs for a while, but it's on everybody's minds. Because of the layoffs, people's responsibilities increase and more communication is necessary. Most of the layoffs were basically due to a downturn which affected all of tech, but many of the positions were lost to India -- a SW quirk.6. Office have been replaced with cubes all over the place without doors. No privacy, and I know this not just my company. Entire buildings are being redesigned to "improve and foster communication" between the few employees that remain because of the layoffs.?Am I imagining something here? It *could* just be this company, but I doubt it. It sounds like what started out as a good hobby may not wind up a viable career because of the new work environment.?Thanks in advance,?ACGIn large part you are right. There are however some niches that aspies still excel in.?Where I work each project has a lead engineer. As such my job is to become the system. I become the walking memory and logic tester for the system. For example if there is a change proposed - I think through all the ramifications, solicit feedback-via email, etc.?If the system misbehaves I figure out what may have happened for the debuggers. For validation I switch teams and give ideas about potential weaknesses.?In my company - through no known plan, all LE are aspies. We are walking talking project records and the system is our toy.?Off the record our personnel folks have started to look for two personality types - one compulsive schedule minder type and one aspie type for each project. Generally the workk load is divided so that each has one new system and one established systemThe computer field is simply going the way that other fields have done.?In the field of accounting, a person could be a bookkeeper where the job was to simply put the numbers into the ledgers and review the receipts and documents to make sure the expenditures and income are valid.?Now, computers do the main bookkeeping job and produces the reports. The job of the accountant is now describing what the reports mean to those that need the information to do their jobs. As such, there is more human interaction.?In the field of Software Engineering, the programs have become more complex and as such, things are working together more. As such, there is more human interaction that there was in the 70s and 80s. There are however areas where aspies are still needed. Even with the need of the big picture, there is still a need for people who can look at code or any other document, see a something small that the big picture people overlooked, and bring it up. Something as simple as using an = instead of == can be missed.I'm aware of that, but that sounds like precisely the type of stuff that would be outsourced since it doesn't involve intellectual property -- or likely automated by programs like lint, Purify, and so forth because a computer can do it.?That's basically the problem: if you think too much like a computer, a computer can now do it for you so you have no job.?(Incidentally, I've asked my manager to do more bug stuff, and he just said "That's India's now. Stay where you are, do what you're doing -- if you don't like it you can quit." I'm basically being pigeonholed at this point, and whenever I suggest that I could help other groups he says "fine -- but as long as you work for me my stuff always comes first". Politics rearing its ugly head??)?ACG?think it's more of a case of Software Engineering becoming a bad job for everyone.?As far as communication goes. The exchange of information for a major project should be clear, and easy to analyze. This is not just an issue of AS, but of having any sort of quality.?For a fairly complex project, their should be at least one person who's job is solely to deal with the communication side of things.?It is not neccesarily a problem if one person does not understand the whole system. Frequently, just having an abstract view of things is sufficent.Like everything else engineering is changing. Here is what is happening in my neck of the world.?I do R&D for embeded systems so here is a better idea of the niche. There are three aspies and one NT in the group. The company no longer has anyone who just codes.?We start with customer needs, analyzes them and looks for new products. We then code, test, develope these ideas to a vialble level at which point they are shipped to someone else for coding/advanced (as in does not look like something I built on a lab bench) hardware development.?Now I think my point --- all of us are retrained continually in different things. The least trained has a dual degree in comp sci and electrical degree. The rest have masters with a hard science /engineering (chemical engineering, Biomedicalx2) to complement the comp sci.?In addition each does about 120 hrs of training off site a year.?This is a lot different than the way coding used to beACG wrote:Hi! I'm working as a software engineer, and I'm starting to wonder whether it's time to change careers -- not because I've changed, but because the industry has changed.When I started programming, individual programmers could write entire programs and simple games by themselves without any collaboration or standards to adhere to. You were in control of everything.Amen to that. I just went through a crisis at work and I think the problem can be traced to the more rigid formulaic, product-oriented nature of software these days. I mean, it's a craft, what with all the Bill Gates framework that has been set up.?I suspect that most aspies are drawn to the creative side of it: the process rather than the product part, and that seems to be a vanishing aspect of much software implementation these days.When I was doing Comp.Sci at college in the early 1990's there was much talk of Object Oriented programming and although that is only a technical framework, the idea of separating out various parts of an elaborate and complex programs seemed to underpin the ideology behind this shift in approach.?Management Spiv types have always been fearful of the technological types, hence the emphasis on turning a programming project into something that yields an 'end product', or a commodity. This has the unfortunate effect of turning the people who are working on the project into commodities too, hence the outsourcing to India and other antics to destabilise formerly well-paid, secure highly qualified professionals. It is part of the 'rationalisation' of globalisation and it should in the medium to long term, help depress wages and working conditions - even for people with two or more college degrees.?The H1-B 'indentured servant' scheme, whereby foreign-trained programmers and others with technical skills can come over and undercut the wages of home grown talent is a god-send to managers who are not themselves technologically literate but who nonetheless gain huge bonusus and 'kudos' from wringing every last ounce of productivity out of their workforce.?What all this means is that people who have an eye on a lucrative career - ie people who weigh up the study options for university and decide that instead of having to compete with imported foreign labour at knock-down rates they would prefer to acquire skills that cannot be 'outsourced' then become mangers and business types with MBA qualifications instead of BSc. qualifications.?This means that home grown talent is allowed to fester because the real decision makers - those with the money - are always in a position to suck up resources from somewhere else.?Eventually, the only jobs available in the West will either be the Movers & Shakers in the corporate world who enjoy exercising life or death decisions over other people's lives, or else it will be minimum-wage style servitude jobs in which it is necessary to wait tables, flip burgers or become servants of the super-rich.?Adds a whole new meaning to 'working class', doesn't it?One of my friend's areas of expertise is warehousing/distribution. A decade or so ago, this field seemed a lot more stable than I'm noticing nowadays.My friend's last warehouse job started the summer of 2015. He was hired on for FT, permanent. Sounds great! He & a few others were already let go this past January (2016) due to their being not enough work & the company was not Walmart or Target, but the next of those kinds of big stores, so there SHOULD be enough work year-round. And he hadn't worked there long enough for his seniority to keep him on.Are warehouse jobs these days becoming more about them needing people "for the moment" & then after a certain season, then they see if they still people?I'd appreciate any comments, etc.IF it is distribution for something like healthcare products , its pretty stable. Warehouse work becomes mind numbingly BORING very fast though.Like much other blue collar labor jobs it's been gutted. The jobs are usually thru dirty temp agencies for low wages and Chinese sweatshop conditions. You will be most likely be laid off during slower seasons, and you can be fired and replaced on a whim. If you're going to do it try to find a union shop.It also helps to learn Spanish.I gave up a pretty ordinary but enjoyable job with a good employer in the UK to move to California to be with my fiancee, now wife. I got my work permit 4 months ago and have been avidly looking for work, but ploughing through page after page of job ads online I get totally frustrated. I have a bachelor's degree and at least 9 years of low-level clerical experience behind me. My biggest peeve is the fact that almost all jobs seem to be through employment agencies these days.?I get that sinking feeling when I see a long list of jobs and next to each one is a company name that ends in something like "...Personnel Solutions". I imagine back in the day thsese places were great for a spot of temporary work, but now more and more companies are closing their personnel/HR departments and contracting these shysters to recruit staff. What really irks me is that they keep their cards very close to their chest, not giving anything away in case the competition gets hold of the details. But for someone like me who doesn't drive and has to use public transport, it's so frustrating having to contact/sign up with these people just to discover the job starts at 5am at a business park 3 miles off the nearest bus route.?These agencies seem to be staffed entirely by young women - are there any men in recruitment? I often feel like some kind of idiot whenever I'm being told by a 19-year old wearing a business suit and too much make-up that there's nothing suited to your particular skills at the moment, but we'll have a good old giggle about you when you've left. I end up leaving feeling like a worm under a magnifying glass.?What experiences have you had with employment agencies? Do you think they're really geared up for aspies?I am not a doctor and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.?I've dealt with some Employment Agencies in the past and I was not too impressed by them. The companies I dealt with ranged from the Mom & Pop establishment to a nationally recognized agency and what I found was that there was not a big difference between the two. Staffing agencies or whatever you want to call them really only care about their own jobs first and since their job is trying to find people to fill an immediate employment opportunity (which none of them could do, that is why they are working as a recruiter in the first place) the recruiters want the perfect candidate to reflect nicely for themselves as well as their company.?And, yes, recruiters seem to be younger women for some reason. Wonder what that reason might be...hmmm. That should tell you something right there.?Since most Staffing Companies are a cross between a fast food restaurant and Hooters my advice would be to keep trying but don't waste your time with recruiters that will not give you good information about the job work hours and approximate location. If they are not willing to tell you then the job is probably a crap job (and they know it, that's why they don't want to tell you).?All in all, these staffing companies are not great for Aspies or at least myself but are sometimes a necessary evil for permanent employment. Companies have been forced with liberal legislation as well as higher health care costs to cut corners wherever they can and unfortunately it has meant less jobs and even less good paying jobs with benefits.?When interviewing with a Staffing company make a point to interview them at the same time. Finding out some information about their company like years of experience, years of existence, where your recruiter went to school, type of staffing, number of current employees, awards... can help with the feeling of being under the magnifying glass and also shows the recruiter that you have interest in not just getting a job but working for the company. You may have already tried this approach but the best I can say is, make the interview a 2 way street, so, while they are interviewing you, you are casually interviewing them.?Good Luck.Gripe with employment agencies has been discussed on the IET discussion forum? ... adid=10804? ... eadid=3150? ... adid=21060My experience with employment agencies so far have been that they don't give a damn what you want or if you're even qualified for the job (I've been contacted by several through my??posting wanting me to apply for jobs that required a decade more experience than I had), they just get everyone they can to apply for the job specified so that they get the money for the find. Some of them are professional, some are kinda frightening with the clientele they're used to. There was one I had to deal with in Portland that had me fill out a questionnaire that was basically 50 questions asking me over and over again how frequently I take Crack, Meth, Marijuana, or Xanax.johnners wrote:Do you think they're really geared up for aspies?No. Recruiters are usually paid by commission, which means most of them aren't going to give much thought to whatever you're actually looking for in a job.?(But welcome to CA!??)One good thing about employment agencies. You can try lots of work places and be glad you are not a permant employee at some of the work sites. Find one that knows you use the bus tell them to call with were and when the day before and if they will not find one that will. It's basic 101 to know were a temp wants to work and when and any place that can not do that sould be out of business.A job?!?! I don't know if it's the economy, or whatever, but I have fully-qualified, intelligent, capable, hardworking, muliple-degreed aspie friends who have been looking for a job for over two years!! Wonderful people. HOW are we supposed to survive? (Unless we get gov. handouts).......??Reflection wrote:Haha, a job?! That's a joke. I don't know if it's the economy, or whatever, but I have fully-qualified, intelligent, capable, muliple-degreed aspie friends who have been looking for a job for over two years!! Wonderful people. HOW are we supposed to survive? (Unless we get gov. handouts).......?It's the economy and the fact that people don't understand us. I graduated from college and now I am working at a retirement community as a housekeeper. College degrees don't count for anything if you have bad social skills basically. And I got that job as a housekeeper through vocational services which were indeed a government program.?However I'm not that unhappy about where I am, because I wanted to work in a retirement home and I am hoping to be a CNA and then a nurse eventually. So this gives me a heads up.?Do whatever you have to. Unfortunately you might have to depend on something from the government.?The economy is worse then the media claims it is, in my oppinion. Bad economy equals less jobs. It's not good right now in many places world wide. It's not easy.?A CNA huh? Hard work that possition. The nursing one two. I worked in a nursing home for almost a year once as a laundry person. My mother worked in the same one as a bookeeper for at least three years. Nursing and CNA jobs usualy have?way?too few people, and most that do them hate it. It's so good that you are someone interested in it.Yeah, I'm feeling their same pain. I graduated in June 07 with a degree in Chemical Engineering, blown about 12 in-person interviews and many more phone interviews. It's getting a tad bit frustrating, to say the least, especially when I run into people with whom I graduated and the first question they ask is "Why haven't you gotten a job yet?"What's unfortunate for me is that I'm completely aware of all of the problems that I'm experiencing, but I have no control over them. Outside of interviews, I'm actually an extraordinarily normal fellow (just a bit weird, of course). Hell, I didn't even realize I had Asperger's until I started interviewing for professional jobs after graduation and the stress involved caused the symptoms to come forth. I'd had the symptoms when I was a kid, but excellent parenting on my mom's behalf helped me overcome them. I described what was going on to a friend, who then pointed out that's exactly what his AS brother had, and my mom only recently admitted that I was diagnosed with Autism when I was a few years old (she's pretty much been trying to hide this for me). Anyways, tangent aside, I've always prepared for an interview, researched the company, came up with ways my education and experience would help make me an ideal employee, and overviewed answers for the most likely questions, but, when I'm interviewing, my mind goes either blank or blustered with way too many thoughts to make sense of a single one. So all and all, I usually end up looking like a complete idiot by the end of it, or like I'm not interested in the job, despite my best attempts to show that I am.Ruby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada said:?My daughter says that at her college the top 2 languages are: 1. Spanish and 2. Mandarin Chinese. Guess what # 3 is? It shouldn't surprise you.?>?>?>?>?>?Arabic.She speaks Spanish very well. I was insistent that she take that in school. I am not always wrong! Very few are taking French or Latin anymore.I don't believe in learning a language just so I can work in my own country. If you're going to go into areas like international business, international marketing, international law or immigration, then by all means learn another language.We cater too much to Hispanics in this country and now it's spilling over into other nationalities: Poles, Russians, Koreans. (I'm seeing a lot more job ads requiring applicants to know Polish, Russian and Korean than I did 5 or 10 years ago.) I'm getting sick of having to press 1 for English, 2 for Spanish and having to listen to phone messages/recordings in English and then Spanish. What's next? Press 1 for Spanish, 2 for Italian, 3 for Polish, 4 for Russian, 5 for Korean, 6 for Chinese, 7 for Arabic, 8 for Greek, 9 for Tagalog (Filipino). I'll be asking myself which number I press for English.I'm NOT against immigrants, but at the turn of the last century they learned English in an effort to find work. They assimilated into this country. Immigrants don't do that anymore and it's causing a lot of people like myself problems when it comes to working and finding jobs. People like me are now finding themselves left more and more behind all because immigrants are failing to assimilate when they come here and I, for one, am sick of it.You have no idea just how much it upsets me to see job ads where I meet all of the qualifications but I don't speak whatever language they're looking for. The same goes for ads for entry-level work where they'll train you, but only if you speak the language they want. It's just not right.Some guy who keeps fighting in in Savannah, Georgia said:?I'm coming up on two years of what I call "Being in the struggle". I still keep fighting. There are days when I want to just throw in the towel. But I can't. I'll never get to the place I deserve to be in if I quit. If you're reading this, we have to keep going. I hope we all make it!Good to read this, after almost two years TODAY is the day I almost threw in the towel and gave up. Another job fair (with four employers that tell you to go home and apply online), rejection from a call center job (over qualified), and just plain being hit with an emotional ton of bricks.I will keep filling out more and more applications and pray that one of them will be the one.You have to realize that employers have WAY more important things to worry about than looking over resumes and job applications, and even when they do take the time to look them over, there are hundreds of thousands that they have to dig through.?Managertina made some really good points, a lot of internal issues do affect the hiring process. I've applied to jobs where they told me they were going to set up an interview for me only to cancel the position a week later.?In this economy especially, a few months is nothing when looking for a job. After I was laid off from my job in 2008, it took me over three years before I got a decent job with a company I really wanted to work for. Note that I have a Bachelor's Degree in Accounting, which you always hear is a high-demand field and companies always need accountants, but it was almost impossible for me to compete since most job postings were asking for candidates with at least 5-10 years experience, and unfortunately I was competing against a bunch of out-of-work CPA's with 15+ years experience just for basic bookkeeper and accounts payable positions that don't pay much more than minimum wage. Since I needed a job just to make money, in the beginning I had trouble just getting a seasonal temporary overnight stocking position at Target that paid very little over minimum wage and was an hour drive away from where I lived. Under normal circumstances, no one would want that job, but at the time a bunch of people were willing to sacrifice their first born children for it. I had to go back and get my Master's Degree and make myself well known, and even then I was still having a lot of trouble getting a job. I still had to HAND MAIL (you get a better response if you do this) 200-300 resumes at a time just to get a handful of interviews.?Interviews a lot of times are arbitrary. I've been on interviews where the company already decided who they wanted to hire before I even set foot in the door. Sometimes employers just hold interviews in case someone will be leaving the company, but doesn't.Ladies and gentlemen today I decided to share with my opinion on current employment trends and hiring issues in our country. As most of you probably know 2009 recession took a heavy toll on Americas workforce. Unemployment rate hikes at 10%, salary cuts, mass layoffs, total underemployment among all industries and income groups. Today 2016 we stand at 5% our economy is once again booming and it seems like the worst times are in the past.... or aren't they?I work in IT sector and was recently out of the job for a while. It took me almost 3 month to get another one. And my salary was cut down by 30% percent. It is not because my skills or qualifications are outdated or because there was no demand in my field. It just because I was not able to find anything close to my range.?As probably many of you did I posted my resume on-line at multiple job boards, was working full time to find relevant position online and apply. And guess what was the response rate for everything I did? I would estimate it to be less this 0.5%. Meaning after I wrote 1000 cover letters, sent my resume and did useless ATS applications for 1000 times I was getting only 4 to 5 replays with probably 1 to 2 phone interviews. Can you believe that? Instead I was getting 10 to 15 calls and around 30 letters a day from creepy recruiting agents with Indian accent I could barely understand with a set of uninformative question regarding: 'Are you looking for job? How many years of experience do you have in this? How many years of experience do you have in that? Are you ok to relocate to the middle of nowhere at the North Pole for 50% percent below market average salary? And all these for 1,2,3 month project.' Some of the even demand me personal information like date of birth or 'visa status'.?I think with the way things are right now we really going down the hill. And I think it is time we have to do something about it. In my opinion all these hiring agencies and consulting companies are preying on both employees and companies without any added value for anybody.1.They drag down our salaries significantly by taking 5% to 20% percent of applicants salary or rate and reducing it even more by bargaining with businesses.2. Create unnecessary competition and mess with all the double, triple and so on submissions and fake resumes and profiles. (At times I was getting up to 15 calls for the same position or contract opportunity. Now try to imagine a pile of profiles these guys where submitting to end customer. And believe me they are not concerned if you are a good fit for the job it they have to show some activity of their work by submitting as many profiles as possible)3. Destroy reputation and take out work from reputable recruiters who really work with their customers to find un-common talent for a specific job. (Yes I can say there are still company out there who really do search for a talent. Usually they work for either a fixed fee or a one-time fee equal to the percentage of applicants salary. They do "cherry picking" rather than massive spam ).?4. Prevent companies from hiring the best talent by submitting more perspective (read hear least expensive) applicants with fake resumes and references. Short term profitability due to the payroll cut will transform to huge revenue loss in the long term due to lack of innovation, additional expenses to fix failed projects and missed deadlines .?5. Create fake picture of skillful talent shortage to drag even more foreign workforce to the country abusing H1B and L1 Visa programs. (Obviously if the company cannot find anybody to work for a half of the industry average salary it is NOT because of the talent shortage it is because people who live here do not want to get their families into near-poverty stance)?To those of you who may see a shade of racism in post I want to say that I hold absolutely no prejudgment against Indians or any other foreign nations. It just a reality and statistics that refers that the vast majority of these recruiting companies are owned and operated by people of Indian origin. The vast majority of companies that are suspected to be involved in H1B and L1 abuse are Indian based companies with labor force shipped from India. These are not prejudgments or discrimination these are facts we can often see in the news and easily find in the internet.What can we all do about it? As a US worker I can only choose not to participate in this mess. I do not reply and do not work with this kind of businesses. I can try to raise awareness among my friends and fellow co-workers. Try to bring this issue to the public and try to help whoever of my acquaintance or former co-workers looking for a job to reach out to corporate HR directly.?This problem affects all of us. Does not matter what your industry or social status is. According to my friends the same is happening to other industries like engineering, architecture design and science and research. If US middle class will continue to fall then at the same time all people who are involved in service industry will be affected in a bad way. (Less money equal to less spending on goods and services equal less jobs for the rest of us. Even those who live from paycheck to paycheck) We already lost a great majority of our blue-collar jobs to China. Let's try to prevent our high tech sector from going to drain.My message to business. Please pay close attention to hiring practices. Yes it might be time consuming process for HR to find a right candidate. Yes the might not have all 47 and half requirements you are looking for. But it is always better to go with people with good core knowledge capable to learn rather than with fake 100% match profile. Get rid of ATS the only purpose of it to search for key words and the right talent. Chasing a penny profit on payroll cost will cost a dollar at the revenue cost. The more you outsource the more your biggest consumer market will shrink.?Please share your opinion it does matter. Please absolutely refrain from discriminatory content in your comments. Let this thread to be seen by as many people as possible.Lindsay Gill in Toronto, Ontario said:?Are you frustrated applying for hundreds of jobs still waiting for a phone call back for an interview?Share your frustrations...how many jobs have you applied for vs how many call backs have you gotten?I've stopped looking... I have a BA and MBA... 5 yrs exp in sales, 4 1/2 years exp in?insurance?underwriting and operations, 5 1/2 years exp in fundaccounting?with supervisory exp... I've applied for for over 500 positions over a 3 year period. It's really not that many when you think about it but I've had only one face to face interview and two phone interviews. By the time I hit my 4th year of unemployment, I basically just stopped looking. After a while, you wonder if anyone even looks at your resume when there is a gap in employment. You get more feedback from forums like these than you do from recruiters or employers.I've applied for many jobs in the last three months; so many that I've lost track of who I have and haven't applied to ... I have only received three calls for interviews. I've been passed up twice for lack of working experience (which brings me to a major question I'm sure many share; Where do I get the experience required if no jobs are willing to hire without such working experience?) in a field and once I passed because it was a high stake sales position with literally no training.What's most frustrating are the relentless emails I get thirty seconds after I press submit: "We are glad you took the time to apply for our position, but we have decided after review of your application we aren't in need of your expertise"Jobless in Grapevine, Texas said:?I've stopped looking... I have a BA and MBA... 5 yrs exp in sales, 4 1/2 years exp in?insurance?underwriting and operations, 5 1/2 years exp in fund?accounting?with supervisory exp... I've applied for for over 500 positions over a 3 year period. It's really not that many when you think about it but I've had only one face to face interview and two phone interviews. By the time I hit my 4th year of unemployment, I basically just stopped looking. After a while, you wonder if anyone even looks at your resume when there is a gap in employment. You get more feedback from forums like these than you do from recruiters or employers.You're like me. Probably more experienced and educated than the people interviewing you.?Had one very bad interview today. Woman has no clue what my job is really about. But it's her job to interview. So she tries to pretend she knows things, but she was so far off base.?She told me they would not hire anyone?full time, because that's how it's done now.?Basically said she wanted someone who could do the work of 2 people.But no set hours.I know every day, more and more, I need to be working for myself. These managers are just a hinderance.Redhead in Saint Louis, Missouri said:?Job boards are useless anymore. You never get responses so you may as well just apply to every job on every board all day long, regardless of what the job is, and see if anyone responds - anyone except recruiters who want to pad their databases and forget you. Of course, you will also be on the call list of every foreign recruiter in the universe who will call you relentlessly all day and lowball you on jobs in broken English.I have no faith in the Internet method of getting work. It's crap and a I'm a tech writer/?editor?and?instructional designer?. There are hundreds of jobs that I qualify for but no responses. The system of applying through job boards is a scam.If people lose faith in the methods we are forced to resort to, what will happen to all these useless recruiting firms and bloated job boards? I hope it all comes tumbling down.Lost faith that even 10% of job postings are for real. They are either not really?hiring?or holding interviews to see what's out there.I am convinced now what applying to jobs online is useless. The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I'm done with being stupid. I am going to start to be very unorthodox in my replies now. It doesn't matter really what I say - I can say, "Although I will never hear from you again and I know you won't hire me, I am required to submit my resume to continue unemployment benefits. I really don't know why you post these jobs since you are just full of crap."Redhead in Saint Louis, Missouri said:?, I am required to submit my resume to continue unemployment benefits. I really don't know why you post these jobs since you are just full of crap."Yeah and we really enjoy that Missouri cut back unemployment benefits in 2006 to a maximum 13 weeks. I guess they want us sub-humans to disappear from their stateAnonymous in Overland Park, Kansas said:?Yeah and we really enjoy that Missouri cut back unemployment benefits in 2006 to a maximum 13 weeks. I guess they want us sub-humans to disappear from their stateYep. They want us to just take that $10 an hour job. Employers pay for unemployment so we don't want those CEOs to be prevented from buying that extra yacht. It will be much easier for?business?people when we are starving on the street corners. They can just step over us and get on with their lives.Redhead in Saint Louis, Missouri said:?They want us to just take that $10 an hour job.Unemployment doesn't care. They just want you off and as soon as possible. They have other people who'll be needing it and the less they have to pay out to you, the better.That said, I find it extremely hard to fill out a WSR (Work Search Record) nowadays considering there really aren't a whole lot of jobs to apply to these jobs and most employers would rather hire far more experienced people anyhow.Honestly, I don't know what these HR people do all day.Or if I am even blaming the right people, is their ATS resume software up to date. I mean how the hell can it not detect text if I use simple shading or lines to make my resume stand out.So we have to make our resume scannable for the software yet make it stand out somehow. WtfI graduated last Winter with honors but am having trouble getting work because I lack experience. I can't seem to find a paying job that doesn't require at least 2 years of experience in its field, and as I don't have this experience in the first place, I can't get any experience at all. I want to be financially self sufficient as soon as possible.?What should I do?I feel for you man. I'm sure someone will respond telling you to do volunteer work in your field. I've done that, and it hasn't helped me at all.?Employers don't want educated people who distinguished themselves academically. They want high school dropouts for grunt work.Get an internship at the kind of company you'd want to work for. I did this and got my first job at the same company I was interning at.^^^ That's how I got my first job too.?Unfortunately a degree does not guarantee competence anymore. Hence, companies require experience even for entry level jobs.?It's not easy, but volunteering and interning is about all you can do.??Keep trying and you'll make it.My parents were in STEM (science) and so I went into STEM (but engineering because of two guys in a garage - Apple). My career half biomedical engineering (innovative research) and half straight electrical engineering (test, R&D, manufacturing production, etc). For my kids it is hard to recommend STEM as a whole career. For jobs that are actually here in US, for the study in the field, STEM is all great. But these employers are wacko today.?I worked in plants with over 1,000 PickNPlace production lines, all moved overseas - no longer available in entire USA, there is nothing like that left. Companies with 3 PickNPlace production lines are about the biggest left.I worked in R&D new product, innovation, biomedical systems - traces left in USA but tough to find, real tough.I don't know if that will turn around, but these employers are ready to drop every employee at the drop of a hat, and seem like they all want 22 year old people with 30 years of experience and willing to do 5 jobs all at once or forget it because you should be so grateful to get a job doing 5 jobs for 1 pay.Right now seems like the growing fields are anything paperwork related, it seems all that is emphasized. That is hard to recommend because fundamentally seems like it is unproductive and mostly created, but the reality is that is all that is growing. That and basic services, repairing imported products, etc. Not much high technical nature is here in USA, but paperwork is everywhere I can tell you that.Paperwork, government jobs, basic services (not high technical), sales, taxes, jobs taking work away from doctors (they call that work Noctors instead of Doctors), some things kids today might want to look at.Originally Posted by?TestEngr?My parents were in STEM (science) and so I went into STEM (but engineering because of two guys in a garage - Apple). My career half biomedical engineering (innovative research) and half straight electrical engineering (test, R&D, manufacturing production, etc). For my kids it is hard to recommend STEM as a whole career. For jobs that are actually here in US, for the study in the field, STEM is all great. But these employers are wacko today.?I worked in plants with over 1,000 PickNPlace production lines, all moved overseas - no longer available in entire USA, there is nothing like that left. Companies with 3 PickNPlace production lines are about the biggest left.I worked in R&D new product, innovation, biomedical systems - traces left in USA but tough to find, real tough.I don't know if that will turn around, but these employers are ready to drop every employee at the drop of a hat, and seem like they all want 22 year old people with 30 years of experience and willing to do 5 jobs all at once or forget it because you should be so grateful to get a job doing 5 jobs for 1 pay.Right now seems like the growing fields are anything paperwork related, it seems all that is emphasized. That is hard to recommend because fundamentally seems like it is unproductive and mostly created, but the reality is that is all that is growing. That and basic services, repairing imported products, etc. Not much high technical nature is here in USA, but paperwork is everywhere I can tell you that.Paperwork, government jobs, basic services (not high technical), sales, taxes, jobs taking work away from doctors (they call that work Noctors instead of Doctors), some things kids today might want to look at.If I lived in Florida, I would have a Debbie Downer attitude as well.By telling young people that they should aspire to become paper pushers, how is the problem supposed to correct itself? It won't, and nothing will improve. Fixing things requires real people making real efforts and sacrifices.Originally Posted by?andywire?If I lived in Florida, I would have a Debbie Downer attitude as well.By telling young people that they should aspire to become paper pushers, how is the problem supposed to correct itself? It won't, and nothing will improve. Fixing things requires real people making real efforts and sacrifices.I had a boss once that kept talking about making sacrifices, so he cancelling all the bonus one year. We figured it was tough times till we found out he was funneling it all into managers but same bonus pool was available. Is that what you mean?Not aspire to paper pushers, I didn't say that. I say the reality of what is going on. Aspire to be a great scientist, doctor, engineer but if you do you find the reality that paperwork is out there. Take in electrical engineering, do you know how many jobs just want a guy to draft things so they can send it overseas? They don't want anything but drawing.Originally Posted by?TestEngr?I had a boss once that kept talking about making sacrifices, so he cancelling all the bonus one year. We figured it was tough times till we found out he was funneling it all into managers but same bonus pool was available. Is that what you mean?Not aspire to paper pushers, I didn't say that. I say the reality of what is going on. Aspire to be a great scientist, doctor, engineer but if you do you find the reality that paperwork is out there. Take in electrical engineering, do you know how many jobs just want a guy to draft things so they can send it overseas? They don't want anything but drawing.It's been going on for a long time. Somehow, engineers still find a way to make good money, so long as they live somewhere with good jobs. Florida ain't it. As such, qualified candidates leave the area, companies can't find or afford workers, and they do what they must to survive. Just like you and I are expected to do.Engineers have a skillset and a purpose, and they shouldn't be forced to work for pitiful wages in order to compete with 3rd worlders. They should be encouraged to find newer, better opportunities, or create their own.Originally Posted by?andywire?It's been going on for a long time. Somehow, engineers still find a way to make good money, so long as they live somewhere with good jobs. Florida ain't it. As such, qualified candidates leave the area, companies can't find or afford workers, and they do what they must to survive. Just like you and I are expected to do.Engineers have a skillset and a purpose, and they shouldn't be forced to work for pitiful wages in order to compete with 3rd worlders. They should be encouraged to find newer, better opportunities, or create their own.Yeah there is California which proposes to have all the engineering these days. I got interviewed and almost took a job two years ago in CA. It was good pay that I hadn't had in awhile till I checked the prices of RE in Sunnyvale. But even that didn't stop me, after looking and talking to them quite awhile I realized the goal even of the position in CA was to go from R&D to production setup (which I had done many time) but then of course not do the production in CA since that is crazy but move it all to Taiwan (if I recall). I turned the job down. Not the least of reasons was that I would probably be laid off at that point.Chicago Suburbnite in Illinois said:?Several months prior to going back to college to earning my paralegal certificate, I started looking for entry -level legal assistant and paralegal work. I had hoped to line up something prior to having vacated my position with the accounting firm I was at. However, it never happened and I ended up leaving shortly after their busy season: tax season. I didn't want to leave (the decision wasn't easy), but there's no way I could've handled all the busyness and craziness while going back to school. After I left the accounting firm and returned to school, I still kept looking for entry-level legal assistant and paralegal work. After submitting 300+ résumés and applications for legal assistant, paralegal and other legal-related positions, I finally landed entry-level paralegal work in estate planning making $10/ HR . I spent one month on the job before I was terminated for underperforming. It was my understanding when I accepted the job I'd be trained to do the work. However, they barely trained me at all and the training they did give me was rather poor. I left with the understanding they wanted someone more experienced, but weren't willing to pay more to get the experienced person so they were trying to settle on people like myself: people in school or just out of school with little to no experience.Anyhow, as much as I'd like to keep track of just how many jobs I'm applying for this time around, I'm not going to do it. It actually depresses you much quicker because you're physically able to see it real time as opposed to not keeping track and simply guesstimating.There are ads out there just as you described. College degree required for $10 an hr.I need a living wage yet it's the new buzzword to be labeled entitled. Career centers consider $10 an hour "well over minimum" but minimum wage was never intended to be a living wage. It's the teen or retiree who is bored and just wants a little extra wage.I've been aproved for vocational rehabilitation. Are they going to use my meger skill set to place me in a job (that I will most likely hate), or will they help me gain real skills that I can use to do something that might pay well and/or be intrestinng.Most times, VR doesn't do a damn thing to help with anything. Most state-run VR offices are worse than useless.I know here, they do testing to try and find out your abilities in a job. Also they can help with interview practicing. Then there is the disability assistance side where they provide therapy/counselling. In some cases they assist in paying for training. They say I'm too qualified and there is no point since I have a bachelors in something that I can't effectively work in, as well as had training I paid for myself for truck driving.?For me I really need the therapy/counselling that they aren't giving me when on the road as a truck driver.?Also they tend to be really slow and for me I have bills to pay and am forced to work in what ever I can get a job in real fast.?I think it really depends though on if your case worker is actually passionate about helping people with disabilities.I have been using them for years. They helped me pay for my college and now I will be meeting with them again to try to find another job. I went to them earlier this year where they helped train me for job interviews and gave me some tips. I also attended a job fair earlier this year. I ended up getting a different job on my own but I am dissatisfied with that job right now so I am looking at other options and they are one of them. I would say it certainly can't hurt you to seek their help. Just keep you options open. I look at them as almost being another employment agency, no work is guaranteed but you are getting your name out there.They used to come to my school to the resource room and they would look our abilities and strengths and write on the board what jobs we can do. It all made me uncomfortable because I wanted to do more in life than just minimum wage work or simple work and they were telling me I couldn't have people jobs just because I had a hard time with interaction with other kids and getting along with them. They did land me a job in my high school library and they paid me and not the school. I worked in there once a week for one hour. I wanted to do it more but they said an hour once a week. I was also supposed to have a summer job back in 2003 but it never happened and it turned out they didn't have any money so they couldn't put me to work. I gave up on them and tried to do it myself by trying to get myself a job and apply at fast food places because it was the only jobs that I found available including Wal Mart. All people jobs. That is probably why I only worked one hour a week by them in 2004 because it was all they could afford. Where I lived, VR was a joke.I really don't find Vocational Rehab helpful in the long run. I believe that if VR is your last resort or if you need VR to help get the jump start into something specific, then that would be fine. If you don't need VR, however, then don't go through it. Don't bother. In fact, I went to VR for help in my earliest job searches and all they could give me were a few programs, tests and hoops to jump through. However, when I decided to hunt for the jobs myself and went in to get applications, I managed to get work. VR in general is a flawed system IMO.I get services from them and while they are helpful, VR's main goal is to help you find a job, without taking into account your interests and preferred work environment. So there are good and bad things about them. They'd only be helpful for me if they could help me find a job that I enjoy and that is suited to my interests.I recently dropped my services with them. The issue I have with them is they try to force you into one particular job goal and anything outside that area, you have to look for on your own. It seems as if they want my job goal to be data entry or office work, when in reality, its not what I really want to do the rest of my life. My biggest problem is that I think my parents are not happy about deciding to drop things with them but TBH, the services weren't exactly helpful in the first place so I don't feel guilty about my decision at all.?So in that case, I've decided to just look for jobs on my own in a small retail store. I really want to work at PetSmart since I love animals!?Bottom line is, I think VR is somewhat overrated. Its great for some people, but not for others.I am using them as a last resort. I am 2 1/2 months into a 7 month training course.?Disadvantage?s.?As mentioned they slot you for office clerk jobs.?One way of doing things for people with a variety of disabilities.?Related to the above lack of understanding of disabilities. Examples are Handicapped Parking spaces in the back of the Parking lot. Fluorescent lighting.?To noisy and crowded. One teacher has a piercing voice. Non-Autistics complain about her.?Advantages?Staff and students are generally very nice.?Teacher?s are effective.?I have worked with Microsoft Office since the late 1990?s but I am learning new interesting and faster techniques.I'm just starting the VR process so the jury is still out for me. My first meeting was somewhat ignominious and left me feeling hopeless and even a little angry at having my hopes dashed. Realizing that the intake counselor's heart was in the right place, I sent her a very nice thank you email. My anger wasn't directed at her but a broken system. A little gratitude went a long way and she spent some time doing a little digging for information. She responded, "Very few of my customers have ever thanked me simply for listening and taking the time out. It's refreshing."?I learned a valuable lesson in getting people on my side. It may be too early to conclude this, but I believe my success, or lack thereof, at VR will be predicated on my ability to self advocate. I'm a poor self advocate and taking strides to get better. One thing I have difficulty in is communicating my needs accurately verbally. I think this is where a little pre planning comes into play with a notepad. Also, I'm still coming to understand my autism some. I'm 37 and was literally diagnosed a month ago.ASPartOfMe wrote:I am using them as a last resort. I am 2 1/2 months into a 7 month training course.?Disadvantage?s.As mentioned they slot you for office clerk jobs.One way of doing things for people with a variety of disabilities.?Related to the above lack of understanding of disabilities. Examples are Handicapped Parking spaces in the back of the Parking lot. Fluorescent lighting.?To noisy and crowded. One teacher has a piercing voice. Non-Autistics complain about her.?AdvantagesStaff and students are generally very nice.Teacher?s are effective.I have worked with Microsoft Office since the late 1990?s but I am learning new interesting and faster techniques.Wow! Didn't know VR tries to place you only in office jobs. Now I'm really glad I have nothing to do with them anymore.was going to wait til I finish with them to give any say. but I will say at my offcie the whole they try to only put you in office jobs is not at all true. they have spent time trying to look at what will be best for me. I have a deree in automotive. and logicly it would be the move to get a job in that field. but I've told them I can't do it and they have accepted that options we are considering. non mechanic type job related to automotive, retail(the job i've had and know I am good at, but its low for them as they want something better for me), security and production. the two are ones I wouldn't have thought of if not for them. I mean I've always wanted to be a cop or security but I wouldn't have thought I could. and production is something I found I could do.?they have been super nice and supportive. they have paid for my gas without me asking, they paid for the month assestment. they plan to pay to get me licensed as a security. along with clothing, hair cut, etc.?so i'd say it really varies on who you get and where it at. just as people and places vary.peaceloveerin wrote:ASPartOfMe wrote:I am using them as a last resort. I am 2 1/2 months into a 7 month training course.?Disadvantage?s.As mentioned they slot you for office clerk jobs.One way of doing things for people with a variety of disabilities.?Related to the above lack of understanding of disabilities. Examples are Handicapped Parking spaces in the back of the Parking lot. Fluorescent lighting.To noisy and crowded. One teacher has a piercing voice. Non-Autistics complain about her.?AdvantagesStaff and students are generally very nice.Teacher?s are effective.I have worked with Microsoft Office since the late 1990?s but I am learning new interesting and faster techniques.Wow! Didn't know VR tries to place you only in office jobs. Now I'm really glad I have nothing to do with them anymore.They might try and place you in stock work. One caveat, The states run them so where you live it might be different. In NY they pay private business schools to do the training.Yep am currently dealing with them as of now I have mixed feelings about them I've been through a psych exam a class telling the reasons why people work (which I already knew) and now I am having to go to goodwill for "hands on" work evaluation I.E. folding clothes I recalled when I dropped out of high school back in 99 I signed up with the same agency and they shoved me into a stocking job with service merchandize which at that time they were at tail end of chapter 11 and were starting to close down the stores in the metro area which mine was slated to close shortly after 01/01/2000.?At this point I'm looking to focus my attention on my education being that I am taking classes at a local college. I believe that will be more beneficial then what the state may be able to provide.sly279 wrote:peaceloveerin wrote:ASPartOfMe wrote:peaceloveerin wrote:ASPartOfMe wrote:I am using them as a last resort. I am 2 1/2 months into a 7 month training course.?Disadvantage?s.As mentioned they slot you for office clerk jobs.One way of doing things for people with a variety of disabilities.?Related to the above lack of understanding of disabilities. Examples are Handicapped Parking spaces in the back of the Parking lot. Fluorescent lighting.?To noisy and crowded. One teacher has a piercing voice. Non-Autistics complain about her.?AdvantagesStaff and students are generally very nice.Teacher?s are effective.I have worked with Microsoft Office since the late 1990?s but I am learning new interesting and faster techniques.Wow! Didn't know VR tries to place you only in office jobs. Now I'm really glad I have nothing to do with them anymore.They might try and place you in stock work. One caveat, The states run them so where you live it might be different. In NY they pay private business schools to do the training.What's frustrating is my parents are pushing me to get the services back when I really don't want to. They weren't helpful to me in the first place.you can request a different person. ask who is the best and most open. they also can't tell you what to do. so you can say I want to do ____ and want help getting to it. they are there to help you meet your work goals.My main issue with them is that they're a one size fits all agency. I don't think they are willing to make reasonable accommodations for those with ASD. My other issue with them is that they try to pigeonhole you into a particular job category. I have told them several times I want to change my goal to working in a retail or corporate environment but they said based on the results of my vocational assessment I had done about a month ago, they think data entry or office work would be best suited to me. Well, the truth is, it is NOT what I really want to do now and in the long term.?I think the main reason my parents want me to reconsider services with them is because they think I'll have a better chance of getting a job at a place like Publix, which is very accommodating of people with disabilities than if I didn't have the services at all. It is something to think about; however, I'm not entirely sure I want to do it.Hi there, I'm new to this form and was just recently diagnosed with AS at the age of 28. Long story short, I grew up poor, was rather unsuccessful with schooling due to anxiety/depression issues and being unable to stay focused on subjects that were of no interest to me. I come from a divorced family and neither parent has been very supportive of me, so I've been on my own two feet bouncing between entry level minimum-wage jobs and terrible roommate situations for nearly a decade now. I've only lived alone once and was practically starving myself to make ends meet. I finally went to see a psychologist and he sent me to vocational rehabilitation with the goal of finding a full time career and finally being able to live independently without any troubles.?Well, It's been two months now and I've yet to make any progress with them due to unsigned paper work, counselors getting sick, conflicting work schedules, etc. etc... the longer it drags out, the more anxiety and feelings of hopelessness enters my mind. My main social problem is that I'm absolutely terrible in job interviews. I can barely make eye contact and my mind blanks out in fear and I can't speak clearly. I had panic attacks in college and gave up very quickly, not knowing that special education was an option since I wasn't diagnosed, so even my resume paints a picture of me being rather unstable. I've yet to get a solid answer from the voc rehab people stating that they will be informing companies of my difficulties prior to having me go through an interview, or if they plan on just throwing me into yet another low-paying customer service job. So far it's just been them talking over me and being vague about the whole process.?I would like to hear what are some of the experiences and success stories people have had with their services to keep myself positive.My vocational rehabilitation experience was a joke. I attended many pointless appointments. They accomplished nothing, they really didn't have any insight on how to help me. They were totally clueless. I am surprised THEY were able to get a job as a "counselor". I'm sorry, that wasn't very positive.My experience was bad too. They would often act like they were on the cusp of getting me a job, but then nothing. Completely useless!SadAspy wrote:My experience was bad too. They would often act like they were on the cusp of getting me a job, but then nothing. Completely useless!Me too. They clam they have contacts that they really don't have.Jaydog1212 wrote:SadAspy wrote:My experience was bad too. They would often act like they were on the cusp of getting me a job, but then nothing. Completely useless!Me too. They clam they have contacts that they really don't have.So far my experience with voc rehab has been negative as well.?At the beginning of August I mailed in my application for services. They contacted me for my first appointment in September--which turned out just to be an orientation video, at the end of which they handed me back the application I had sent in and told me to turn it in again (!) at my first counselling appointment.?My first counselling appointment was scheduled for October 6th (! !), and consisted of my assigned counselor reviewing the application they'd already been given, and informing me that he would let me know IF I am eligible for services, by the middle of November(! !! !). Really there was no reason for me to have even been present for that meeting.?All this wasted time sucks yeah. But what really scares me is that I had to explain to this counselor what an "autism spectrum disorder" is. So now I know that my fate is in the hands of someone who doesn't have the slightest competency to understand how my condition affects my ability to work. I can predict that all voc rehab is going to do for me, if anything, is stick me right back into the same kind of job I just had to leave--and they're going to take another two months to get me that job.?It makes me regret that I have ever payed taxes that fund this system, honestly.My experience has been the following so far:?Aug 17th: Attended orientation that goes over services, get assigned a voc rehab counselor.?Aug 24th: Fill out paper work with voc rehab counselor, discuss the barriers of my condition?Aug 31th: Get called to come back in to sign "release" paperwork which voc rehab counselor forgot so she can can contact my shrink.?Oct 13th: Numerous ignored phone messages and emails pass by, counselor calls me in only to make a future appointment with a "autism specialist" plus an "employment specialist." This could have been handled via phone, rather than two hours of my day getting to and from there by bus.?Oct 15th: "Autism specialist" doesn't call back to confirm, appointment rescheduled.?Oct. 26th: Voc rehab counselor calls in sick. Still waiting to hear back on next availability.?So basically right now I'm at the mercy of not one, but three different counselors' schedules, plus my own availability. Might as well just quit my current job and pitch a tent in front of their offices since they seem to think I clearly have all the time in the world.I would just suggest not wasting your time with them. I gave up on mine after just a month. Now some people say would say that was brash, but I was so sick of them acting like they had a lead and then....nothing. Part of my condition is that I can't handle false hope.I have actually had extreme success with VocRehab. I'm not just going straight into a job, they're paying for my school; a 4 year degree. I'm in Colorado, by the way.?i have an extremely kind case manager, and when I had to quit a private institution which they had paid about $7,000 for, they let me go to public schools (community college, then a 4-year uni).?I got in when I was 19, and now I'm 23 with 4 years of school to go. Your experience can depend a great deal on yourself, and your ability not to give up when road blocks come.?"Life is like a river; it bends, twists, it changes, but it still keeps going". Life doesn't turn out how we expect it, but we can't just "quit" life!I found that to be a joke, as they consider even being underemployed and hardly working at all to be a "success" and the agency they had me working with is changing their employment system, so it's hard to get a hold of anyone right now. It also takes them a long time to open a case to begin with, let alone trying to convince them that I can't live on working only 3 hours a week if I even get scheduled. If I didn't have SSI after winning the appeal after the routine denial, I would be totally screwed financially. Ideally, I would love to have a job that paid too much for me to get the SSI, but the voc rehab doesn't really like disabled people to get off SSI.I've worked with DVR. While their "employment specialists" weren't terribly useful in actually finding a job (I got my current job on my own), they did help with things like books needed to get job skills, and they would have even paid (some or all) for classes if the courses were part of a degree plan (too bad I already had a degree).Well R3, I have had somewhat positive experiences with my vocational rehabilitation department. My Voc Rehab is with the State of California and I was lucky enough not to be on a waiting list because I hear that many states have tight budgeting for social services, even in good times.?One avenue you might want to consider is Schedule A (non-competitive employment) with the Federal Government. Living in Fresno, one good thing is that there is an I.R.S. processing center for tax returns for the West Coast region and I was just recently at an application and fingerprint session there last month.?The State of California also has something called the LEAP program ( Limited Exam Appointment Program) for people with disabilities. I was set to be hired as an Office Assistant with the Educational Development Department starting out about $2,100 a month with benefits but the state hiring freeze is keeping me at bay in the mean time.?So either I work for the State or the Federal Government, it is just a matter of time when their meticulous process kicks in.?But do check out Schedule A job opportunities at the Federal employment site of Sirius wrote:Well R3, I have had somewhat positive experiences with my vocational rehabilitation department. My Voc Rehab is with the State of California and I was lucky enough not to be on a waiting list because I hear that many states have tight budgeting for social services, even in good times.One avenue you might want to consider is Schedule A (non-competitive employment) with the Federal Government. Living in Fresno, one good thing is that there is an I.R.S. processing center for tax returns for the West Coast region and I was just recently at an application and fingerprint session there last month.The State of California also has something called the LEAP program ( Limited Exam Appointment Program) for people with disabilities. I was set to be hired as an Office Assistant with the Educational Development Department starting out about $2,100 a month with benefits but the state hiring freeze is keeping me at bay in the mean time.So either I work for the State or the Federal Government, it is just a matter of time when their meticulous process kicks in.But do check out Schedule A job opportunities at the Federal employment site of My job counselor had mentioned something about Schedule A, but it's one of the many things she's been vague about which should have been discussed with me the moment she was assigned. It actually took signing a release form for my "Autism specialist" to discuss things with the "job specialist," then suddenly all these other options came into the picture. Prior to that, all the job specialist did was have me pick up an application for a stocking position at Office Max, which without a doubt would have started me off making next to minimum wage in the same kind of retail environment I'm trying to get out of. I'm under the assumption that the quicker I land any kind of job, the quicker they write me off as "case closed" and get their money. Now there's talk about having the state pay for me to go to college for job skills training, but that still doesn't solve the current issue of needing to pay rent and bills to maintain a roof over my head. I'm lucky enough to be sharing an apartment with a close friend who's been very understanding through all this and all the meltdowns and anxiety it's been causing me.?But thanks for this info, I'm gonna keep drilling them about Schedule A and the LEAP program during our next meeting.thanks all for your experiences, i also appreciate it.?i've been unemployed for 3 months, and may have to apply for welfare. ONE of the items they mention on it is you have to attend vocational rehab. hearing the negatives has made me wonder if it's really worth it. but it does bring up a question: since my AS is not "officially" diagnosed, should i even bother mentioning it? the bipolar and agoraphobia/panic disorder are, so i probably will on those.?and do you have any suggestions going in to it, like an "if i had to start with voc rehab all over again i'd..."?thanks.Voc rehab has been the story of my life for over 3 years! I have moved between 3 states to find a counselor who knew the hell what she was doing. Georgia, where I stayed for almost a year, was a NIGHTMARE. The counselor there was totally contemptuous. Apparently there they handle parolees in same system! The job placement team I got eased into was a pair of bumpkins. One was actually the counselor's dad! The anti-intellectualism was rampant. The other bumpkin began to leave the room every time I would come in out of ignorant disgust. This when all they were doing was reading a weekly job list that was emailed to them. Inventory or medical filing when I have 6 years from respected national universities? Dumbing down the job target doesn't mean that the experience there won't be even more worse! In fact, I know from working in retail growing up that differences are less tolerated. Telling them that changed nothing.?I 'moved back' to my home state where my dad still lives and drove several hours for the 30-minute meetings. After a few months of typical administrative delays, I was assigned for the first time in 2 years to an independent job placement agency. There was a home visit but the lady admittedly had no clue about anything related to my field, even in government. I waited a month to get a phone call suggesting a couple job listings she found online! Once she found out I was visiting my mom in Texas, that was it! The rumors started! I lived in Texas, according to someone who couldn't do her job. Over a month of wrangling ensued with my counselor to get a disability preference letter for a federal job listing posted only once a year. By the time I got the letter, the listing expired. I faced the choice of ending my second visit to Texas at great expense for one thirty minute meeting about job listings that didn't exist or move to Texas.?Texas had by far the longest delays however. Those five months included a vocational assessment that was scheduled for 2 months later; waiting for those results to be digested (despite being obvious and confirmatory); and a few weeks of discovering someone had forgotten to request my last psych eval, requesting it officially from Georgia, and then trying through multiple attempts for Georgia to mail it. The end result has been good here nevertheless. I was immediately assigned to another job-placement agency who just happens to have an amazing cutey who knows what I'm talking about. I got my first interview in 3 years! The only issues now are that I'm pretty much insolvent and the cutey isn't disclosing my disabilities (Asp+SCT) when she contacts the employers. That's sort of the point, on non-federal applications, of me having rehab. But it's worked out so far, with me disclosing via questionnaire and her helping me word it palatably.I've heard that VRS is good at helping younger ASD people, especially before they graduate from High School [HS]. After that, it is pretty much a "Game" between VRS, and employers, at getting ASD people into "Living Wage" jobs. Several government reports define a "Living Wage" job as one that pays at least $15/hour The number of those jobs seems to be getting smaller all the time, while the number of ASD people appears to be growing. Many ASD people end up depending upon government benefits just to live, because the jobs we're getting simply don't pay enough. Many parents are concerned about what will happen once their ASD children graduate from HS.?With the increasing number of people with ASD, there seems to be more of an effort to help them get the necessary training in order for them to become Productive, Contributing, members of society. However, there needs to be some sort of effort to increase the number of jobs for these ASD people. The types of jobs that would be good for ASD people are the very ones that have been sent to other countries, like: Mexico, China, India, etc. We need to bring those jobs back to the United States!?Asperger's Syndrome [AS] didn't become part of the DSM-IV until 1994. Autism Spectrum Disorder [ASD] didn't become part of the DSM-V until 2013. ASD is considered to be a "Developmental Disability". The brain of an AS person is "Wired" differently than the brain of an NT person. To put it "Minnesota Nicely", people with ASD are "Differently Abled" than people who are NT.?Throughout my K-12 education years, back in the 1970's, I knew that I was "Different". My parents had me see Psychologists, and Psychiatrists, about my "Weirdness", but they couldn't find anything wrong with me. I had seizures, and depression, that I now know were COMORBID [Existing With] conditions, in addition to my being on the ASD spectrum. However, I never got any help from Special Education, or VRS, when I was younger, because I wasn't diagnosed as having a problem. I still don't understand just HOW my High School counselor didn't notice that I was "Different", and in need of help. Too late now.?I wasn't diagnosed with ASD until I was 44. By that time, I had completed 2 college degrees -- Chemistry and Computer Science. I also completed a Master's degree in Software Development. During all this time, I had a total of about 40 jobs, which were of all sorts: Part-Time, Full-Time, Temporary / Seasonal, Permanent, Days, Nights, Weekends, etc. Never had a job that I actually "Liked", and always had troubles of one sort or another. Again, all of this was BEFORE my AS diagnosis.??Some of my problems: I was TOO SLOW; I talked TOO MUCH, or I talked TOO LITTLE; I always looked TIRED, and was EXHAUSTED; I always had trouble GETTING ALONG with co-workers and bosses; I once helped a UNION employee, when my job was strictly NON-UNION; I openly objected to things that I didn't like: DANGEROUS tasks, ON-CALL work hours, Having to eat my lunch in what I considered to be a "Strange", "Unfamiliar", and "Dangerous", work place; Driving accidents because of work schedules that were TOO LONG; Having to be TOLD when to SHUT UP, and not talk to my bosses' supervisors about my NOT being treated "Fairly" in: Job Promotions, Work Reprimands, etc.?I was very "Intelligent", and wanted a job where I could put my Education, and Brain, to use. However, I wasn't good at that type of work, and often seemed to always be assigned "Menial Labor" jobs like: Sorting & Delivering mail, Washing Science Lab Glassware, Documentation / Filing, etc. Actually, many of my job problems are often illustrated on the TV show?"The Big Bang Theory", like when Sheldon didn't want to wash the Glassware in Amy's Laboratory, and was "Kicked Out" for arguing with her. Insubordination??Does this sound like my AS speaking out? Well, the VRS counselor didn't seem to care, or know what to do with me. His response was:?"You have the necessary EDUCATION, and work EXPERIENCE. So, what's keeping you from finding, and keeping, a job?"??I almost had a "Meltdown" in the VRS counselor's office! Shouldn't a VRS counselor UNDERSTAND that my inability to keep a job is a problem for many people with ASD???Apparently, VRS is rather "Unfamiliar" with ASD, and just what "Job Supports" ASD people actually need. But, I would think that a person hired for the position of "Vocational Counselor" would understand ASD, or at least be open to learning, without making their clients feel like "Guinea Pigs". That is how I felt every single time that I talked to my VRS counselor. Eventually, I came to just hate having to see them again for an update on my case.?The VRS counselor didn't tell me this, but if you already have a 4-year college degree, you are pretty much "Ineligible" for any more schooling towards a college degree. Even for a college degree in a "New", or "Different", field. Same goes for a Master's degree. So, I was SOL [Sorry, Out-of-Luck] as far as getting any more college education. Only simple On-Line courses, Workforce Center classes, and Rehabilitation Center training. I didn't learn anything that I didn't already know. I got the idea that my resume needed to be "Dumbed Down-and-Down" in order to make it look like I was a "Match" for the jobs that my VRS counselor found for me. Dishonesty about my credentials??The jobs that my VRS counselor told me that I was good at would be Office Support work, such as: Data Entry, Clerk, or Tax Preparer. My college education "Qualified" me for?ONLY?those jobs? The VRS counselor laughed, and said that he couldn't do much about my being "Over Qualified" for jobs. So, I reluctantly agreed to some Re-Training. I learned the Microsoft Office applications: WORD, EXCEL, ACCESS, and PowerPoint, much of which I already knew. This was only the beginning of my frustrations with VRS.?My VRS counselor told me that his office was already "Too Busy" helping other VRS clients search for jobs, so my case was "Out Sourced" to a Non-Profit that helps disabled people. My job placement counselor was helpful,?UNTIL, I thought that he "Stabbed Me In The Back" -- an AS hyper-sensistivity reaction? -- with this comment:?"I'm concerned that you haven't found a job yet. You've been looking for 4 months, and it normally takes only 3 months, for someone to find a new job."?That was the end of my FIRST mis-adventure with VRS. NO job. Only LOTS of anger, and frustration. I doubt that any of the places that I had applied for a job would even consider hiring ME, a former "Computer Programmer", for a "Data Entry", or "Clerical", job. Would you hire me if you were an employer? Probably not.?My SECOND attempt with VRS came after I found a driving job on my own, and lost that one too. One more job added to my endless list. I asked about getting a job with the State of Minnesota, but my next VRS counselor told me that those types of jobs don't work out very well. Couldn't I at least TRY applying, and maybe getting an interview??My guess is that VRS doesn't like having their clients work for the government, and "Private Employers" -- Target, Walmart, Best Buy, McDonalds, Home Depot, Macy's, etc. -- are the preferred places for employing VRS clients. Some people do good at those employers, so I'm not criticizing them, but I wanted to find a "Professional" type of job: IT, Science Laboratory, etc. VRS didn't seem to help with that goal at all.?Sometime I wonder if VRS doesn't have some sort of "Contract" with employers to provide them with cheap labor: VRS clients.?I couldn't find a job as a medical receptionist, but I did get approved for SSDI benefits. My VRS counselor told me that I could get a job and earn up to $1000 a month?FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE?under the Ticket To Work [TTW] program. Sounded good to me. It was agreed that I would look for a job as a "Warehouse Laborer". However, the thought that I went to college, and graduate school, just to work in a warehouse, was very depressing to me.?My Dad told me that he needed to talk to the VRS counselor.?IMMEDIATELY, too. I could sense that something was wrong here. My Dad had to explain to the VRS counselor that the TTW program was NOT a program to get SSDI recipients working, and collecting benefits, at the same time. Instead, the TTW program was supposed to get people OFF the SSDI rolls, and into paying jobs where they could become?Self-Sufficient.?According to my Dad, the only problem was that disabled people, including those with ASD, are rarely able to earn enough money to get off SSDI. The TTW program is great for people who are recovering from injuries, or illness. But for ASD, there will be no such improvement. At least not for ME, at the age of 50.?I'm not sure if my VRS counselor just didn't understand things, like how the TTW program works, or if he thought that I was capable of working like an NT [Neurotypical] person. I'll never know. Shortly after the meeting between my Dad, and my VRS counselor, VRS sent me a letter that clearly stated that?VRS COULDN'T HELP ME. What? I thought that that was exactly what VRS is supposed to be doing.?So, I left VRS even more upset than ever before. My Dad ordered me to NEVER contact VRS again, unless he is present. My parents told me that they could not afford to support me anymore, and SSDI was a "Necessity" at age 50. Especially, the Medicare medical benefits. I guess that you could say that I was "Forced" into a Jobless, Early, Retirement. Not because I "Wanted To", but because I just got to the point where I couldn't get a job, or be supported by my parents any longer.??Today, I'm collecting SSDI, and I occasionally see VRS people, like at the annual Minnesota Autism Conference. They always ask me IF I'm working, YET. My response: Show me the job, and I'll apply. Funny!??I told one VRS counselor that I would like to start my own business, where I wouldn't have to deal with a boss hovering over me. I've heard that many disabled people prefer to work for themselves. However, VRS seems to have the attitude that getting a client into a "Real", Corporate, Job -- Target, Walmart, McDonalds, Home Depot, Best Buy, Macy's, etc. -- is the preferred route. Not sure why this is. Those jobs barely pay enough to live on, and offer few chances for advancement. I have tried working in Retail, and I absolutely HATED it ! !!??In conclusion, I must say that I look back on my dealings with VRS as a complete waste of my time, and taxpayer's money.??It is costing the government A LOT more for me to be on SSDI, and Medicare, than if VRS had simply helped me back when I was graduating from High School. Too late now. That's just how "The Ball Bounces", or "The Cookie Crumbles", in the "Real" world.?My voc counselor wanted me to have appointments with her every month or so so she could tell me to keep asserting myself when I was doing all the job searching on my own.I am wondering if anyone else has used their state's vocational rehabilitation commission, and if so, what they felt about it. Was it useful or a waste of time? I am on the waiting list to have my intake interview with the Massachusetts voc rehab commission and am not sure what to expect out of the interview or from their services. Thing is, they have some pretty strict eligibility requirements since they cannot take everybody who has a disability. The intake interview is when they determine your eligibility and what types of services you may need. I'm not totally certain I'll be eligible for their services since my AS is pretty mild. However, I do have a hearing loss that is not related to my AS, so I may qualify on that basis.?I have a BS and MS degree in meteorology, but have not been able to land any positions in the field. Although I can't really expect them to help me in a field as specialized as this, I wonder if they will be able to help me train for and find a job in another field such as IT. I guess I'm kind of anxious to find out whether or not they'll be helpful, provided I'm eligible in the first place. I would assume you need documentation to provide them with information and proof of your disability. Anyone who has had experience with their state's voc rehab office, please feel free to chime in. Thanks.Well this is my experience so far. They are very slow to decide, and took more than the full 60 days for mine. After I had fully applied, they had my name wrong on my letters! A totally different first name that starts with the same letter.?I met the lady for my first starter appointment, and signed forms for her to be able to collect my medical records. She seemed nice enough at that time but it was very brief.?The second meeting I had quite a few weeks later was much worse. She showed me the papers of my acceptance, and I was accepted solely on my anxiety and depression, not Aspergers. I was very confused about this, and the lady said to me that she "didn't see it" in me, which at the time made me feel very upset and confused, how could she judge if I had what is essentially an invisible disability after knowing me for ten minutes? So I had to talk about this to my therapist and she told me the intake lady probably did not want to officially identify autism on my Voc Rehab forms because then she would be required to do a lot more work on my case for me.?So anyway, I had a horrible meeting that second time, and she said that I could go into a program to do some work with a supervisor just to evaluate what resources I would need in a workplace. They were supposed to call me so I could pick a program to try (unpaid), but they never did, and I have not made more calls to inquire about this because I hate making phone calls and I was quite discouraged after meeting my case worker and she treated me like I didn't know what was going on with my own self.?What my therapist advised me to do was that my case worker is notorious for not doing anything unless you make repeated calls and keep her accountable and on track. Also my case worker asked me the worst question " What services do you want from us?" which was terrible because I have no idea what they offer and what I am eligible for an it was my feeling that she should have told me A B and C and then ask what I wanted.?So, if I am going to get anything out of it I may have to make alot more effort to get services, or possibly try to get a new case worker if I could go out of town to see someone else (she is the only one who travels to my small town to do Voc Rehab).?Oh, also, I have a college degree that I am not using and possibly not able to use. That doesnt count against you that I know of.?Good luck!umm well i am still waiting on the VR person to call me back.?my school recomended it because i graduate this year.?im not sure what kind of job i want or what ill be good at.?i dont kno how much these VR pepole can help me realy.?i hope they can help me find a good job..glasstoria wrote:Well this is my experience so far. They are very slow to decide, and took more than the full 60 days for mine. After I had fully applied, they had my name wrong on my letters! A totally different first name that starts with the same letter.?I met the lady for my first starter appointment, and signed forms for her to be able to collect my medical records. She seemed nice enough at that time but it was very brief.?The second meeting I had quite a few weeks later was much worse. She showed me the papers of my acceptance, and I was accepted solely on my anxiety and depression, not Aspergers. I was very confused about this, and the lady said to me that she "didn't see it" in me, which at the time made me feel very upset and confused, how could she judge if I had what is essentially an invisible disability after knowing me for ten minutes? So I had to talk about this to my therapist and she told me the intake lady probably did not want to officially identify autism on my Voc Rehab forms because then she would be required to do a lot more work on my case for me.?So anyway, I had a horrible meeting that second time, and she said that I could go into a program to do some work with a supervisor just to evaluate what resources I would need in a workplace. They were supposed to call me so I could pick a program to try (unpaid), but they never did, and I have not made more calls to inquire about this because I hate making phone calls and I was quite discouraged after meeting my case worker and she treated me like I didn't know what was going on with my own self.?What my therapist advised me to do was that my case worker is notorious for not doing anything unless you make repeated calls and keep her accountable and on track. Also my case worker asked me the worst question " What services do you want from us?" which was terrible because I have no idea what they offer and what I am eligible for an it was my feeling that she should have told me A B and C and then ask what I wanted.?So, if I am going to get anything out of it I may have to make alot more effort to get services, or possibly try to get a new case worker if I could go out of town to see someone else (she is the only one who travels to my small town to do Voc Rehab).?Oh, also, I have a college degree that I am not using and possibly not able to use. That doesnt count against you that I know of.?Good luck!Thanks...seems like these government bureaucracies are always ridiculously slow. Sorry to hear things didn't work out too well for you with them. I'd definitely try going out of town to see if you might get a better Voc Rehab counselor, if it's at all possible. Sounds like you get assigned to work with someone, making it a "luck of the draw" type of deal in terms of who you work with. It's the same deal here. I'm still waiting to hear, and I think I should call to get a status report, but I hate making phone calls. It's definitely outside of my comfort zone.I went through vocational rehab. (GA) to get evaluated for ADHD while I was in college. A few years later I had dropped out of college and was having trouble finding a job. So I went back there hoping they could help me find a job or at least give me some advice.?I talked to this guy there who asked me a few questions and within about 10 minutes decided my problem was "depression". It was one of the most horrible conversations I have ever had with anyone in my entire life. Somehow it came up that I tend to sleep late in the mornings, I don't know why, I guess I mentioned that I preferred to work second shift because all my previous jobs had been evening or night jobs. So on the basis of that he decided I was depressed and unable to find a job because I did not get up early enough in the morning.?I don't remember exactly what he was, I mean what his job title was or what his qualifications were, but I know he was not qualified to diagnose me with anything and that is not what I was there for anyway. He was really overbearing and kept trying to tell me I should be on medication for depression. And I just kept saying, hey look I just want some help finding a job. I finally got up and left with nothing because I could not get that message across to him. And the funny thing is, I had a job interview that very afternoon and got the job.I'm glad I'm not the only person with horrible experiences... ;A;?It all depends on the person you're assigned. Hopefully you'll get a nice counselor that cares.?I have a mixed feelings about voc rehab. On one hand they're helpful in paying for school tuition, books, and supplies. They'll even help pay for clothes for interviews, and mileage for gas. For jobs, they'll help you write a resume, give you job applications, and practice interview skills.?However I had a rather nightmarish experience with a counselor when it came to looking for jobs. I had just graduated from college, and was ready to find work related to my field. The first meeting with them they admitted they've never worked with people in my field. Because of their incompetence they told me I should just give up, and look for a minimum wage job. My counselor was really insistent that people like me should be put in a back room sorting mail. (I graduated top of my class...this has NOTHING to do with my field.) Later I found out from someone who works within their department that these people get bonuses every time they place someone in a job. So they pretty much don't care what you do, just as long as you get a job. They're also very slow when it comes to accommodations. I had to wait a full year for them to do nothing because they conveniently 'forgot' about the accommodations I had asked for. If I ask what was going on after waiting months, I'd be accused of being rude for being 'impatient'. The counselor I had was not supportive of me, and would constantly talk down to me. (Think of Professor Dolores Umbridge, that's the kind of counselor I had.)?So far I'm in the process of transferring to a new counselor. I pray that my new counselor is a better one.Madao wrote:I'm glad I'm not the only person with horrible experiences... ;A;It all depends on the person you're assigned. Hopefully you'll get a nice counselor that cares.I have a mixed feelings about voc rehab. On one hand they're helpful in paying for school tuition, books, and supplies. They'll even help pay for clothes for interviews, and mileage for gas. For jobs, they'll help you write a resume, give you job applications, and practice interview skills.However I had a rather nightmarish experience with a counselor when it came to looking for jobs. I had just graduated from college, and was ready to find work related to my field. The first meeting with them they admitted they've never worked with people in my field. Because of their incompetence they told me I should just give up, and look for a minimum wage job. My counselor was really insistent that people like me should be put in a back room sorting mail. (I graduated top of my class...this has NOTHING to do with my field.) Later I found out from someone who works within their department that these people get bonuses every time they place someone in a job. So they pretty much don't care what you do, just as long as you get a job. They're also very slow when it comes to accommodations. I had to wait a full year for them to do nothing because they conveniently 'forgot' about the accommodations I had asked for. If I ask what was going on after waiting months, I'd be accused of being rude for being 'impatient'. The counselor I had was not supportive of me, and would constantly talk down to me. (Think of Professor Dolores Umbridge, that's the kind of counselor I had.)?So far I'm in the process of transferring to a new counselor. I pray that my new counselor is a better one.I had about the same results with Rehab Counselors about 25-30 years ago in California after graduating magna cum laude. He repeatedly told me that he never experienced anyone encountering so many unusual problems getting a job, and then, he would tell me that it wasn't unusual, in that it happened to everybody. They told me to get lost later with the official finding: "Your health at the present time interferes with carrying out a vocational program. Due to the severity and complexity of your disabling condition, the department is unable to provide services which will likely lead to adequate employment at this time." wanted a job with a future, and preferably in one of my field of studies (psych & business), but I only got put on disability. I fought for a federal job for over ten years, and some lawyers did think it was funny that the FDIC told me they wanted someone "with the bull-dog tenacity to elicit incriminating evidence from recalcitrant bankers" and that I was too timid, then it took a decade for them to get the courts to get me loose off their back with discrimination lawsuits.?Other programs wanted me to try for less than minimum wage jobs that were unhealthy and dangerous (things like cleaning out refinery petroleum tanks), but losing my driver's license over impairments also prevented that, and now that I am closer to a disabled jobless retirement, I'm still getting advice like "And I think you could spend less time filing lawsuits, and more time making an honest assessment of your strengths and weaknesses, to see where they can add value in the marketplace, so you can be successful selling yourself for the types of positions you might want."? few "fatherly" EEOC ALJ's told me I would be bored with lowly jobs, and that I should try for more challenging positions, while other ones told me that I was in denial, and that I had to swallow my hopes for employment, and get by on accepting my disability the rest of my life.?Maybe the newer interpretations of the ADAAA will finally have practical results, if the economy ever picks back up: about the same results with Rehab Counselors about 25-30 years ago in California after graduating magna cum laude.?He repeatedly told me that he never experienced anyone encountering so many unusual problems getting a job, and then, he would tell me that it wasn't unusual, in that it happened to everybody.?Yes, that is what I have been told by counselors here in the workforce centers. I have degrees in Accounting or Finance but cannot get a job and many temp jobs I got just ended abruptly.?Also, there is no way really to explain a less than perfect or bad work history. When you are in your 30's or older it is the kiss of death. Employers expect you to be established in your career & have a linear corporate job historyI'm also in Massachusetts - and I'm currently waiting on things with Mass Rehab.?First thing to note, they're very slow. Incredibly slow.?The person who I was assigned to for Mass Rehab is surprisingly knowledgeable about Asperger's, and most of the people she works with are on the autistic spectrum.?If you have sensory issues, do remember that those are part of your disability, not just the social issues. They do want to know about those types of issues too.?I qualified easily, personally.?Expect it to be very slow (bears repeating).?I've not had a negative experience. I've just found it to be very slow. My case worker understands working with people on the spectrum though, and that's been a good thing. I've not had as many of the issues that others on here are talking about.?As for the paperwork about my disability - they got my diagnosis of Asperger's, and the rest of the paperwork was me self reporting about what I had difficulties with. They didn't need the paperwork for diagnoses for everything to be completely formal - I could report migraines without my doctor giving me a copy of a neurologist claiming I had migraines because they already had a formal diagnosis of a disability.Tuttle wrote:I'm also in Massachusetts - and I'm currently waiting on things with Mass Rehab.First thing to note, they're very slow. Incredibly slow.?The person who I was assigned to for Mass Rehab is surprisingly knowledgeable about Asperger's, and most of the people she works with are on the autistic spectrum.If you have sensory issues, do remember that those are part of your disability, not just the social issues. They do want to know about those types of issues too.I qualified easily, personally.Expect it to be very slow (bears repeating).I've not had a negative experience. I've just found it to be very slow. My case worker understands working with people on the spectrum though, and that's been a good thing. I've not had as many of the issues that others on here are talking about.As for the paperwork about my disability - they got my diagnosis of Asperger's, and the rest of the paperwork was me self reporting about what I had difficulties with. They didn't need the paperwork for diagnoses for everything to be completely formal - I could report migraines without my doctor giving me a copy of a neurologist claiming I had migraines because they already had a formal diagnosis of a disability.I was on the waiting list for 90 days. After more than 90 days passed and no contact from them, I decided to give my local MRC office a call at the advice of my therapist. I did and they scheduled me for the intake interview later this week. From what someone in my Aspie social group told me, you kind of have to be on their case and can't necessarily expect them to initiate things with you in terms of scheduling appointments, etc. I haven't met my counselor yet, so I don't know whether or not she'll know anything about Asperger's. I mentioned it when I made the initial call, so hopefully that had some sway on things.?I also have a hearing loss that is not related to my AS. I should qualify on this basis alone, if my AS diagnosis isn't enough for them for whatever reason. Hopefully they'll be helpful.I'm working with Voc Rehab now in my state. I'm being made to attend a weekly job club that's clearly not really working for me. I mean, how many times do I need to work on my resume and look online for jobs? Not to mention, I have a degree and the other folks in the club are searching for warehouse, factory, janitorial jobs. Like you, I have specialized needs and they aren't being addressed. On the upside they are paying for certain accommodations that I need, for when I do land a job. It's nice to get out of the house to go somewhere that's (nearly, sort of) productive.I think if you've had serious problems with your local VR office there is probably a Client Assistance Program in your state that will advocate on your behalf. (there is in my state) If you have contacted your counselor's supervisor and then the regional supervisor and are still having problems, it might be worth looking into.?As to the original question: There isn't a wait list in my state's VR office right now so I don't know how that's generally handled, but I think it would definitely be worth telling your counselor about any and all possible issues you may have that would complicate employment. It's basically employment triage, the more help you need, the more help you'll get.?Also, regulations have changed A LOT in the last 20 years and the counselor needs to present a truly compelling case (complete with trial work experience) before claiming that you can't be helped.?One good thing is that because of the sudden increase in ASD referrals to VR, a lot of counselors are actively seeking education on the subject and you actually stand a pretty good chance of being served appropriately. And I can't think of a reason why VR wouldn't support an effort to land a job in meteorology or (if you qualify) help you with continuing education in IT. A closure is a closure and the happier the client the happier the counselor.?(Also, these are state employees and I don't think they actually get bonuses and the pay ranges for their positions are usually a matter of public record. So you could check if you really care)I am now at the point where I need to be looking for a job and have been working with the Massachusetts Rehab Commission (MRC). They helped to pay for 3 semesters of IT/Computer Science courses at a local community college. The thing is, I went back to community college after being unable to find a job in my original field of study (see OP). I'm not sure if this was a good resume move, but I didn't know what else to do. Now that I'm done with school (again), I still don't really know what I want to do. I've never really had a regular job before.?Anyhow, I met with my VR counselor yesterday and she is referring my case to Asperger's Association of New England's (AANE) LifeMAP program. I have mixed feelings about this because it gives me a little bit of that I'm the hot potato that gets passed around feeling, if you know what I mean. To put it more concisely, I'm beginning to wonder if my case is too complex for MRC and they'd rather just pass me on to someone else. I was kind of hoping and expecting that my VR counselor would have some legitimate job leads for me as opposed to recommending that I see someone else. The good thing is that MRC will pay AANE for the coaching, and AANE probably has more knowledge of the issues associated with ASDs. AANE's office is in Watertown, MA, which is about 2 hours away from me. While certainly not impossible for me to get there, it's a bit inconvenient for me to go there frequently.?This isn't to say that my local MRC office is giving up on me, as I will still be in contact with my local VR counselor. I'm hoping to meet their job placement specialist soon as well. Hopefully he will have some more legitimate job leads, as he is the person who supposedly goes knocking on doors and looking for jobs at local employers.?What becomes of all of this, I don't know. I hope I can get a decent job somehow as I don't want to end up on SSI and live at home indefinitely, but I think I have a major uphill battle as my employment history is extremely sparse.mitch413 wrote:I am wondering if anyone else has used their state's vocational rehabilitation commission, and if so, what they felt about it. Was it useful or a waste of time? I am on the waiting list to have my intake interview with the Massachusetts voc rehab commission and am not sure what to expect out of the interview or from their services. Thing is, they have some pretty strict eligibility requirements since they cannot take everybody who has a disability. The intake interview is when they determine your eligibility and what types of services you may need. I'm not totally certain I'll be eligible for their services since my AS is pretty mild. However, I do have a hearing loss that is not related to my AS, so I may qualify on that basis.I have a BS and MS degree in meteorology, but have not been able to land any positions in the field. Although I can't really expect them to help me in a field as specialized as this, I wonder if they will be able to help me train for and find a job in another field such as IT. I guess I'm kind of anxious to find out whether or not they'll be helpful, provided I'm eligible in the first place. I would assume you need documentation to provide them with information and proof of your disability. Anyone who has had experience with their state's voc rehab office, please feel free to chime in. Thanks.I am a Voc Rehab client and have a BS in Financial Planning and a MS in Education. Landed a postgraduate position at a branch campus of a major Midwestern university, but resigned (was about to be fired later that afternoon if I had not resigned) after only working 8 months there. Long story short, was diagnosed with Aspergers, went into a funk for over a year, then went through my recovery time. My VR counselor lobbied on my behalf to get her boss to authorize two years of funding for me to complete a bachelor's degree in accounting. Done with year 1 - year 2 begins in August this year and I graduate in May 2014. After my VR counselor found out that I have high functioning autism, I qualified for services.[Finding a Job is Almost Impossible]I've done it before, but in this economy I'm not sure what to do. Usually I get rejected by almost every employer based strictly on physical appearance. I even had one employer straight say sorry, you aren't right for this job without even talking to me. That was a painful one.?What a sad sack eh? I am trying to find a job with minimal human contact, like a graveyard gas station job or something. Wish me luck.?Anyone have any ideas on jobs with minimum of human contact? I've done phone support before, and again the gas station thing. I really try to avoid being anywhere in public because I just can't stand being around people. I think it's actually RUDE for me to be around them too. I probably scare little kids. Maybe I'm in the wrong place, let me know if you think thats it.?Thanks for any advice.I'm not having any luck either.?I tried the state rehab agency.?In theory, they pay to send you out for an official diagnosis,?then assign you to a job coach and try to get you working.?The employer gets a tax break and the state pays half of your?salary during any training or probation period, up to six months.?It didn't work for me because I couldn't get the right diagnosis.?They just want to sell me drugs and therapy.?If you can get a diagnosis, it might work for you.Have you tried jobs like the late shift at Wal-Mart or some kind of 24 hour grocery store??Stuff like working in the processing room at a retail store is optimal, too.?Then there's also the option of getting supported employment (stuff like One Work Source and VESID help a lot), which will find you a job no matter how long it takes.I understand how you feel.?As much as NTs sometimes dispute this to me, I find that over 90% of employment is about making a "connection" with those who make the hiring decision. I've seen it. I've experienced it. I've seen it stated that way in books on how to win a job.?No matter how "skilled' you are, the hiring person wants someone who is a "good fit" for the office. Today (at 40) I'm a highly-functional person with AS, but in the hiring process the odds of my "connecting" with the interview people is very poor. I can act the part, be charming and friendly, but it's all an act...which I suspect they can sense.?All of my jobs have depended on basically two factors....?1. The employer is desperate for anyone who will take the job.?2. Employer valued my skills over my personality.?I'm lucky today to be doing work for someone who has a similar personality (although he's NT). It has enabled me to have a more functional relationship, but the pay isn't great and there is no future in it for me.?I'm in over $100K in debt for education (dual major BA degree and graduate school), and as if the economy being in the can isn't bad enough, knowing that I can't win over the interviewer like an NT can really sucks a lot of hope out of the future.?I just recently learned about AS....for 40 years I tried to deal with life with no clue about what made me different from others.?Can disclosing your AS status help or hurt your job odds? I don't know. I can see it as a negative because with the ADA, many employers try to avoid hiring disabled people via any legitimate excuse they can find. However, I also find that when people know a person has a disability, they suspend normal expectations and are more open minded. If you (with AS) have mastered several marketable skills but the AS poses some workplace compatibility issues, it is possible disclosure of your special needs (which may be easy to accommodate) would open doors that get closed for all the wrong reasons (assumption that you aren't "right" for the job).?Good luck in any case.shinylight wrote:I've done it before, but in this economy I'm not sure what to do. Usually I get rejected by almost every employer based strictly on physical appearance. I even had one employer straight say sorry, you aren't right for this job without even talking to me. That was a painful one.What a sad sack eh? I am trying to find a job with minimal human contact, like a graveyard gas station job or something. Wish me luck.Anyone have any ideas on jobs with minimum of human contact? I've done phone support before, and again the gas station thing. I really try to avoid being anywhere in public because I just can't stand being around people. I think it's actually RUDE for me to be around them too. I probably scare little kids. Maybe I'm in the wrong place, let me know if you think thats it.Thanks for any advice.everyone has to start somewhere, so apply to store for night/morning warehouse duty, apply to become a dishwasher at the local pizza shop, janitor, etc. then after a year you have something to put on your resume and you can look for other jobs. ask all your family members and people you know that you need any job you can get that you can do alone. some people work best alone. enjoying solitude at work is an ADVANTAGE to some employers where NTs would die from boredom?Learning2Survive wrote:enjoying solitude at work is an ADVANTAGE to some employers where NTs would die from boredom?True. I had one job in which the interviewer "warned" me that I would be all alone in a back room, and he wanted to be sure that I wouldn't mind. I didn't get it. I thought he was being sarcastic, offering it as a selling point. Heaven and hell are in the eye of the beholder.[Even Entry-Level Minimum-Wage Jobs Want Or Expect Experience]Is volunteering, internships literally the only way out of this rut??It's that infamous catch-22 regarding job experience, you need experience to get a job but you can't experience if nobody will hire you, obviously nobody in life is born with experience, there is always a first time for everything.?I don't have much job, work experience for someone my age and i've been applying for the simple minimum-wage, entry-level service jobs such as McDonalds and Grocery Stores, Walmart, Target, etc.?I've applied at simple work positions such as bagging groceries, stocking merchandise, gathering shopping-carts, bussing tables, washing dishes, being an usher at a Movie Theater, etc., and no luck at all, i've had 11 job interviews this year since i was released, let go from my Target job at the end of last year, which was a Seasonal job unfortuneately, i'm guessing the reason why i was easily able to get hired at Target last Fall during the Holidays is that because experience and qualifications do not matter as much, are not as important when getting hired for a seasonal job during the holidays than they are for getting a regular job during the normal times of year.Sometimes they use "wanting someone with experience" as a nice way of turning someone down. If you don't come across well in interview or on paper, or if Target gave you a bad reference, then that could be why. Next time you get turned down, ask what you can do to make yourself more attractive to the next employer. It can't hurt to ask and you might get some good information.I hate to be the one who brings this to you, but to bypass the catch-22 situation, you're gonna have to lie or feed the other part half truths. I did that to break away from a similar situation at age 19.?Lying for an aspie is hard, so prepare for all possible follow-up questions the interviewer may ask. Also, check if there's any recently abandoned businesses near your house. You could tell an interviewer that you used to work there and he can't really proove you wrong.Read this first paragraph if you choose to read my post at all.?Now that I think about it, maybe you should apply through temp agencies in your town. You will get work offered and just take it when you do. You might have to explain to these guys your willingness or unwillingness to travel out of town or too far though. I actually got into my current job with the help of a temp agency, and I was the only one from my group of agency workers that got in despite being the biggest underdog of the group.?The Less important stuff:I got into Wal-Mart when I was 19 and after finishing high school. They seem to hire anybody for truck unloading and night shift jobs. They probably won't hire you for in store work such as cash and department work. I remember having to lie to get through that interview and it helped me get the job. I left there after 11 months because I felt I was working in a hostile environment by that point. Ask me if you want to know why I thought that.?I worked at Pizza Hut a short while later while I was in college. I got in because I knew one of the managers as he was a close friend. The interview was more of a formality than anything and it was hard to screw this up because of the circumstances. I left for two reasons: Environment had potential to become hostile, and found other work?I got another job while I was still at Pizza Hut, but this one guaranteed full time hours. I then handed in my notice to Pizza Hut.?This new job was a factory job down the road from Pizza Hut actually and it was a place that pretty much hired anyone, and brought in temp workers through an agency as well.?I worked at a gas station as well primarily doing cash with some experience from Pizza Hut to fall back on. This is where I think I developed my social skills the most. The interview was a formality and the boss here didn't even ask for references believe it or not. He just said to me after the interview "Come back on Monday for 3 hours of training." I left this because I moved to another cityThe post above mine gave me an idea. When my husband has been out of work and needed something fast, he would sometimes go to the labor finders places. My older son has too. A lot of it is unskilled, and you just clean up construction sites and stuff like that, or work as a gofer or helper handing tools to guys and toting things up and down ladders. All minimum wage and hard physical labor, but it's a paycheck at the end of the day. They pay you every day and you show up at 6am or so and it's first come, first serve as to who they send out on jobs.OliveOilMom wrote:The post above mine gave me an idea. When my husband has been out of work and needed something fast, he would sometimes go to the labor finders places. My older son has too. A lot of it is unskilled, and you just clean up construction sites and stuff like that, or work as a gofer or helper handing tools to guys and toting things up and down ladders. All minimum wage and hard physical labor, but it's a paycheck at the end of the day. They pay you every day and you show up at 6am or so and it's first come, first serve as to who they send out on jobs.They call this Labour Ready or Laboready or something like that here. I prefer not to use them since I hate getting up at 6 am for them. I personally prefer Manpower or something like that since you do all the whmis testing and skill applications and stuff and they call you when there is something to offer. Keep in mind the calling lists are like waiting lists and they are more likely to call people they can rely on and they will call new temps farely quickly if possible. Take the jobs when offered and you should always be at the top of the waiting lists, especially if you are on assignment and waiting for a new one that is more to your liking.They have Labour Ready in my city. I have a friend that used to go there.?I can't really imagine myself doing that. I'm too anxious and most jobs through there would probably be too strenuous for me to be able to do, plus I'd have to spend $4 for the bus or walk a long way to get there.WantToHaveALife wrote:. . . let go from my Target job at the end of last year, which was a Seasonal job . . .That's a definite positive. You worked last Christmas on a seasonal basis. This year will be easier to get on at JC Penney, Kohl, Walmart, etc. Still very much a numbers game as you well know.?Another seasonal possibility is H&R Block (typically lasts for about five weeks for the early refund season and that's it). You can pay to take a class starting late pretty much right now. Or you can study on your own and pass a test. You can start inquiring into getting hired starting late November or early December. And the job typically lasts from late December to early February.AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:WantToHaveALife wrote:. . . let go from my Target job at the end of last year, which was a Seasonal job . . .That's a definite positive. You worked last Christmas on a seasonal basis. This year will be easier to get on at JC Penney, Kohl, Walmart, etc. Still very much a numbers game as you well know.Another seasonal possibility is H&R Block (typically lasts for about five weeks for the early refund season and that's it). You can pay to take a class starting late pretty much right now. Or you can study on your own and pass a test. You can start inquiring into getting hired starting late November or early December. And the job typically lasts from late December to early February.It sucks that it's easier to get hired as a seasonal employee during the holidays than it is to get hired during the regular, normal, non-holiday times of the year, as in, work experience and qualifications are not as important, do not matter as much during the holidays as they do during the regular, normal time of year, when hiring during the holidays, employers, hiring-managers are more likely to overlook a mediocre interview than they are during the regular, normal time of year, non-holiday times, because i'm guessing that is why i was easily able to get hired at Target last Fall, i even asked them if I could use them as a Reference and they said Yes.?I've also applied at Staffing, Temp Agencies around where I live but no available job openings, Home-Depot is one of the places i've really tried to get hired at this year, i had 2 interviews at Home-Depot this year, both at different locations each-time, it's because my really close friend who i've known since middle-school works at Home-Depot, he has been there for 2 years now, he's let me use him as a Reference, Connection, because people always say Networking really helps you get a job, i'm sure you have heard the quote "It's not what you know but who you know", but not enough to get me hired at Home Depot, overall i'm so hardcore desperate for a job that I will take almost anything I can get, even if it is minimum-wage, I just want to have a life again, hence my username, since having a job forces you to be social because you get to interact with your co-workers and customers, so being unemployed makes me feel like I have no life.I was in that 22 situation for a few years before I had my 1st job. I was apllying at most every place I could think of for any job that I thought I might could do & didn't have more than 1 or 2 interviews. I had heard from different people that the experience thing isn't as much an issue if your currently in school & looking for part-time work or your looking for a summer job while you have a break in your schooling. I had graduated high-school a year & a half to 2years before I started looking for work(long story) & wasn't in college so that looks odd on applications. I got my 1st job because I was working with an organization that was founded through my state voc rehab who lined it up for me. It was a dish-washer & I HATED it but I took it because i needed experience & after 10 months I applied at WalMart & I had interviews at 2 different 1s in October/November. The 1st one was only hiring for one position & the hours wouldn't of been good for me because I didn't drive & arranging transportation for that shift would of been difficult. A week or so latter I got called about an interview at the other store I had my app submitted to. I don't feel my interview went well but they were doing a lot of hiring because Christmas was coming up & they had a remodel planned rite after holidays season. I had work history & passed the background check so they had me take a drug test & afew weeks latter I was called about orientation. I stayed there 25months but I was transferred to a different department after 4days because I had problems stocking due to my disabilities which I had mentioned to them in my interview.?I know the no experience thing can be a real catch22 but there might be a few things you can do. If you have any disabilities or documentation about AS or other mental issues; you could try seeing voc rehab. Getting on disability or SSI or any kind of assistance because of disabilities or mental issues or whatever if you can won't hurt; sometimes applications ask about things like that because companies may get tax breaks or want to have a certain quota. Apply at places that are more willing to hire disableds; my voc rehab counselor suggested I apply at Good Will; before I filled in the app there the woman ask me if I was on something like disability & when I told her No she told me not to apply because they were hiring people who could only work like 20 hours a week due to benefits or health reasons; I explained to her that I do have disabilities & I hadn't worked before & had been looking a while & wanted experience & the women let me apply. Also charity work may count as expedience & it might would be a good way for you to network with people.WantToHaveALife wrote:Fiona_G wrote:[quote=but starting Friday of last week, i've been doing an unpaid internship at Smart and Final, it's a grocery store, i found out about the internship through the Asperger Syndrome Support Group where I liveThat sounds promising?. Is there anyone at the support group who might be able to keep in touch with you and offer some advice? Once you get a feel for the job, they might have suggestions as to how you could encourage your employer to take you on for a paid position if one comes up? Hope it goes well for you, I'm sure the hard work you're putting into looking for a job will pay off soon.Yes, the person who is the coordinator, director of the job transition program, i believe that is what it is called, has given me great advice, but the internship is a way for me to hone my skills, have more training to prepare me for an actual paid job[/quote]?it just pisses me off that even entry-level service jobs, minimum-wage jobs, customer-service jobs, even those type of jobs give a crap about qualifications, i can't stand all of the damn competition, and why do people always say to go back to school, college, for those who are not college-educated in order to get a job? do you really need a college degree in order to get hired at a place like McDonalds and a Grocery Store? I don't care, a job is a job, i'm so hardcore desperate for a job that i'm completely comfortable and content working minimum-wageWantToHaveALife wrote:WantToHaveALife wrote:Fiona_G wrote:[quote=but starting Friday of last week, i've been doing an unpaid internship at Smart and Final, it's a grocery store, i found out about the internship through the Asperger Syndrome Support Group where I liveThat sounds promising?. Is there anyone at the support group who might be able to keep in touch with you and offer some advice? Once you get a feel for the job, they might have suggestions as to how you could encourage your employer to take you on for a paid position if one comes up? Hope it goes well for you, I'm sure the hard work you're putting into looking for a job will pay off soon.Yes, the person who is the coordinator, director of the job transition program, i believe that is what it is called, has given me great advice, but the internship is a way for me to hone my skills, have more training to prepare me for an actual paid jobit just pisses me off that even entry-level service jobs, minimum-wage jobs, customer-service jobs, even those type of jobs give a crap about qualifications, i can't stand all of the damn competition, and why do people always say to go back to school, college, for those who are not college-educated in order to get a job? do you really need a college degree in order to get hired at a place like McDonalds and a Grocery Store? I don't care, a job is a job, i'm so hardcore desperate for a job that i'm completely comfortable and content working minimum-wage[/quote]?whats also confusing to me is that, when i've asked people for advice, questions, this is what i specifically asked them "if a person is at least getting job interviews but not getting hired, what does that mean specifically?"?a lot of people say the answer i expect, in which it means my interview skills need improvement, that it means i look good on paper but not good in person, as in, my job interview performance is killing my chances of getting hired, i also find it annoyingly frustrating when people ask me how do I dress to the interview, one person even asked me are you even dressed properly? and yes!, obviously, all of the interviews i had this year i wore a suit and a tie, dress shoes, was clean shave, good hygiene, etc.?This is an example of an answer that a person told me:?"It could be any number of things, but bottom line, there is a candidate that they liked better. You might have great interview skills but someone else has more experience. You might have great previous experience but another applicant might have a personality that the hiring manager preferred. You might speak English, Spanish and Mandarin, but someone else might speak those languages plus Russian and Creole. Your shoes might remind the manager of his sisters jerk of an ex-boyfriend. There are too many variable to determine what the reason is.?My advice is to find a neutral person to do a mock interview with. Someone honest who doesn't know you too well. A friend of a friend, your neighbors sister-in-law, someone who can give honest feedback without bias."?Someone else said: "If you are brought in for an interview that means you have a good chance of being hired because most candidates who are chosen for an interview have basically the same skills on paper. The interview is to determine if you FIT within the organization. 50% of the time no matter how good your interview skills are you will not have a chance because they don't like your: age, appearance, personality, style, image, posture, style of speaking, etc.?Interviewing is like dating. No matter how hard you try, you can't force people to like you. Some will, some won't"?Some people have also told me if a person is getting job interviews, that means the hiring-manager or employer, HR department, read, checked, saw the persons resume, application and saw something they liked, i also argued against another person by saying if they are not interested in hiring my why do they waste their time interviewing me? after all, Time is Money, and this is what he says to me:?"That's not logical. Interviews are a way of testing you to see if you're a good fit for their company. Without interviewing people, they would not be able to determine that, save for basic education and work requirements."?Overall, what do you think?It is what it is; interviews, as you've just learned, are for looking for that special yes-man, the one who thrives on sniffing under tails but doesn't strive to take the alpha dog's spot. The ultimate workaround for any aspie is going to be to follow your interests, if you zero in on something that you would do for free and people need what you do, they will come knocking with wads of cash in their hands (whoa, way interesting typo before catching that).?"Yeah but what do I do in the meantime?" If you can fathom being able to do it every single day for the next few years or the rest of your life, or until you get canned for being born without the social gene, go ahead and keep applying at places in that big mall next to the 22. A better alternative IMO is something under-the-table. If you don't mind getting a little dirty and sweaty there are lots of tire shops in 'town'. Lawnmower shops, all kinds of restoration shops in all those little industrial complices. You don't think all of those choppers and hot rods get built in a week on TV by those guys yapping in front of the camera do you? Those places NEED the guy working away in the back. But do NOT just go banging on shop doors, you'll need a bit of an introduction to let your work sell itself. If you do resort to going door-to-door, have a small portfolio with you showing model kits you've built or samples of something you've fabricated or refurbished.?Don't know if this all applies but you'll definitely be happier in a "get 'er done" occupation, highly demanded skills make an aspie pretty much bulletproof2wheels4ever wrote:It is what it is; interviews, as you've just learned, are for looking for that special yes-man, the one who thrives on sniffing under tails but doesn't strive to take the alpha dog's spot. The ultimate workaround for any aspie is going to be to follow your interests, if you zero in on something that you would do for free and people need what you do, they will come knocking with wads of cash in their hands (whoa, way interesting typo before catching that)."Yeah but what do I do in the meantime?" If you can fathom being able to do it every single day for the next few years or the rest of your life, or until you get canned for being born without the social gene, go ahead and keep applying at places in that big mall next to the 22. A better alternative IMO is something under-the-table. If you don't mind getting a little dirty and sweaty there are lots of tire shops in 'town'. Lawnmower shops, all kinds of restoration shops in all those little industrial complices. You don't think all of those choppers and hot rods get built in a week on TV by those guys yapping in front of the camera do you? Those places NEED the guy working away in the back. But do NOT just go banging on shop doors, you'll need a bit of an introduction to let your work sell itself. If you do resort to going door-to-door, have a small portfolio with you showing model kits you've built or samples of something you've fabricated or refurbished.?Don't know if this all applies but you'll definitely be happier in a "get 'er done" occupation, highly demanded skills make an aspie pretty much bulletproofi just hate how even the minimum-wage entry-level service jobs give a crap about qualificationsAs someone who sometimes writes job descriptions, I think you have missed the fact that a lot of lists of job requirements are a wish list.?Granted, when the industrial bakery says that a job requires being able to regularly lift 50lb bags of flour, they really mean it. But they know that the number of people who can lift a 50lb bag of flour AND who have the right set of skills to function in a bakery is way smaller than the number of people who have lifted 50lb bags of flour in a bakery before.?Right now the job market is a nightmare so it's worse than usual. Back in 2003 i was in your shoes. I had a friend who had a technical support job at a place that advertised a software testing job while i was looking for work as a software tester, so I applied. And then later i asked my friend to find out why they didn't even bother rejecting me. He told me that the HR lady said that over 1000 people applied and they gave the job to a guy with a masters degree. Sometimes it just isn't your fault that you didn't measure up.?Funny thing - the guy who got that job got me my current job. And got laid off last week.?If a job is being filled by a human resources or staffing person who has never done the job you're trying to get, they will be strict about their list of features that applicants have to have and if you don't have the experience that is on the list they will reject you. That is a fact and i'm sorry to say it. Sometimes life isn't fair.?But if you can get in touch with the people who do that job - with the people who you would be working with and for - sometimes they can see past a list of knowledge to an actual person.?I hired a guy about a year ago who had no experience in software testing, but he was dying to get out of support escalations at another software company. I could tell from the way he solved problems that he had the right sort of mind for the work. I could tell from the sort of support tasks he'd been tasked with that he was thinking about why those problems should have never happened in the first place, and i knew that he would make a good tester.?And he did make a good tester.?So, here's some basic advice:?Decide what you want to do. "earn money" might be the most we can ask for here.?Try to determine what kind of company you want to work for.?When you apply for work at a company, find out what you can about them and use that knowledge in your interview and/or cover letter. It also helps to re-tweak your resume for every application. This is just like talking to a girl - they are always more impressed if you talk about things they are interested in. Be able to talk about why you want to work for them in reasons that go past a pay check.?Be positive and professional. There will be situations where you are anxious or feel slighted. Be ever aware that if someone is in a situation where they don't know if they are ready to say yes, they are generally certain that they can say no. Don't give them any reason to want to say no.I've applied for jobs where my skills and experience checked every single box that they were asking for in their advertisement. And then I get a letter saying, "Thank you for your interest but we had a lot of applicants whose skills and experience more closely matched our requirements."?I felt like sending the letter back to them with a photocopy of my original application and the advert, highlighting the salient points, and large red writing across their letter saying, "Explain how, please?"?Or just "LIAR" would have made me feel better.?MissMoneypenny wrote:I've applied for jobs where my skills and experience checked every single box that they were asking for in their advertisement. And then I get a letter saying, "Thank you for your interest but we had a lot of applicants whose skills and experience more closely matched our requirements."I felt like sending the letter back to them with a photocopy of my original application and the advert, highlighting the salient points, and large red writing across their letter saying, "Explain how, please?"Or just "LIAR" would have made me feel better.?well i'm enjoying my internship so farMissMoneypenny wrote:I've applied for jobs where my skills and experience checked every single box that they were asking for in their advertisement. And then I get a letter saying, "Thank you for your interest but we had a lot of applicants whose skills and experience more closely matched our requirements."I felt like sending the letter back to them with a photocopy of my original application and the advert, highlighting the salient points, and large red writing across their letter saying, "Explain how, please?"Or just "LIAR" would have made me feel better.?Don't let it get you down. People get hired for the strangest reasons.?I am pretty sure that i ended up at my current place of employment because they were in a bind and the hiring manager had a worse commute than i did.?I had been interviewing twice a week, but almost all of my interviews were in salt lake city, 40 miles from where i live, and many of them on the even less convenient east side of salt lake city.?This was when gas was hitting $4/gal and every place i interviewed at expressed a concern about whether i would keep working for them for a long time with gas prices going crazy and a 40 mile commute.?And then i got interviewed by a guy with a 60 mile commute. And he hired me.thewhitrbbit wrote:WantToHaveALife wrote:blauSamstag wrote:When applying at target wear a red shirt. They will probably think you already work there.and how do you answer some of the common job interview questions, also, a lot of the questions are situation-based questions, behavioral-questions, and they can be very tough to answer if i have not been in that situation before.Use the internet to find sample questions and practice.?And use common sense. Your answers generally should not involve things like?"If i saw a guy taking stuff, I'd let him steal it""If a customer asked me where something is, I couldn't answer them"?"If I have a problem with a co-worker, I punch him in the face in the store."?Well these are the tough questions i've been asked:?"Why do you want to work here?" because I obviously can't just say I need a job in order to pay the bills, hiring-managers don't see it that way?"Tell me about a time you worked with somebody to achieve a goal that at first seemed impossible?"?"Give me a time when you were a leader of a group and how did you manage to lead the group?"?"Tell us a time you and other employees were asked to do a difficult task, how did you achieve it and what were the results (or something like that)?"?"Describe an instance you had to perform a task both quickly and accurately?"?"How would you handle a situation in which you weren't experienced or qualified to answer a customer's complaint or question?"?"What would you do if you were working on a task that needed to be completed with a time limit and some one else came along and ask/told you to do something else?"?"Recall a time when you had to complete a task or project that was a stretch of your skills, beyond your skillset?"?"Why should we hire you? or what can you do for us that other's can't?"[What Would You Tell Your Kids or Other Young People?]I don't know what they are going to do with their future. I see papa johns is hiring delivery drivers. Uber is hiring too. Along with some janitorial companies. Not much else. You need two jobs to make it in this country because the wages are so low. Everyone is dying off. The houses and bridges are falling apart. I think young people might as well start leaving the country. There are no good jobs remaining. I would immigrate to Australia in a heartbeat if I could.My dad would say do not go into a field that will kill your body. He has been doing physical labor since he was a teenager. His body is completely shot. I think he was trying to make it to sixty-two, but he might have to go out on disability before that. He has other health conditions as well, including one or two that resulted in a rejection from being hired by the city. He tried.I didn't even know it was possible to afford kids today under the Obummer Service Wage lowballing Economy. Hell I can barely support myself, forget kidsI wouldn't want my kids to be involved in IT. Low pay for the hours, vulnerable to outsourcing and offshoring, and constant on call work suck.Lean a skilled trade that can't really be outsourced.Do your research on the market. Don't take life for granted.It wasn't always this bad in the USA, 30 years ago jobs were plentifuland one person/salary could support a family. But foolish spending, bailouts and corruption?have guaranteed your future is bleak. The main stream media wants you tobelieve the economy is great, but they are liars. Now two incomes can only support two peopleand average incomes are falling. The jobs available are not good and the outlook is even worse.WELCOME to 2016!Most 2016 college grads will not find good jobs but most will have accumulated significant debt.[It Seems Like I Am Unemployable At This Point]This is pretty much the worst case scenario of how hard I though it would be to adjust to adult life. I honestly have no idea what I'm going to do because it seems like my lack of social skills (or maybe just a lack of charisma), along with my degree, lack of experience, and gaps in my resume is making me unemployable. Not to mention my anxiety, along with what I believe to be depression, makes it difficult for me to work or even attend an interview in the unlikely event that I get lucky enough to get one.I'm 22 years old and I finished my degree in psychology in December 2014. I wanted to go to grad school and become a psychologist, but realized my marks wouldn't be good enough when I was in my final few years. I only have experience working at a grocery store in high school, and spending a summer working as a lab assistant a few years ago.I have been searching for jobs for nearly a year and a half. I spent the first half of that time basically only looking for jobs related to my major. I managed to get a few interviews although I never got the jobs.In the past six months I've pretty much given up on finding a job related to my major, since I wasn't having any luck at all and most require experience. I've been applying to all kinds of jobs (such as administrative, warehouse, driving, merchandising) and haven't even gotten a single interview. My resume and cover letter is as good as it can be for someone with very little to put it on, and it has gotten me interviews in the past.I'm afraid that places don't want to hire me because my degree has nothing to do with the job and they usually hire people right out of high school. They probably also think that I'll be gone as soon as I find something better (even though that is very unlikely), and the employment gap/lack of experience scares them off. The problem is I can't even find a job to help fill in the employment gap.I've even applied to stock shelves and still haven't heard anything back. I do have a bit of volunteer experience which also hasn't seemed to help me find a job. I've tried temp agencies and they weren't really any help (even they required experience or they said my resume didn't really fit in with the employment they offer). I'm nearly a hermit at this point, and don't know a single person who could help me find a job. I've been spending some of my free time trying to learn skills such as programming, but to be honest I'm not really enjoying it and I'm learning very slowly.It feels like even though I'm 22 years old my life is over and there is nothing I can do to get out of this situation (even though I'm sure this isn't true). The question is what can I do besides continuing to apply for jobs and get rejected by one employer after another.I dropped out of high school because I'd always thought the teachers/admin were a bunch of lightweights in the world outside of academia. I couldn't see them as anything more than overpaid babysitters and real-world flunkies.I worked in trades from an early age, became very proficient in everything I did, and now invest in real estate while working a part-time job (by choice) with full union bennies. Zero regrets.The people I knew who were hell-bent on college ended up in a mixed bag - some did very well, but most ended up in a different field of work (sometimes after switching majors) or in a job that had no college requirement.?Too many people look to a college degree for a ticket to the good life, and most end up disappointed.Originally Posted by?thatguydownsouth?Ok so I will start off with my field, Accounting. I wish back in my College days the professors would have been more upfront with what the actual career was like day to day and the expectations.1. Hours. Not even in the tax field which everyone knows is crazy, but in any arena of accounting the hours are awful. In corporate accounting you are expected in some companies to work Saturday and Sundays every month. In audit you are going to be pulling in 80 hours a week during key times of the audit. When you move up higher in the company you are STILL going to be working awful hours. There is a general vibe in corporate accounting that you are expected to work ungodly hours and even if you have completed your tasks you cannot leave "early" (early is still more than 40 hours in your week) because youll be viewed as not a team player. Adjusted for hours in accounting your salary is closer to $10-15 per hour.I have a master's in Education, and the hours are actually pretty good if you don't count the work you sometimes have to take home.?Quote:Originally Posted by?thatguydownsouth?2. Pay. As mentioned the pay is far lower when adjusted for hours. Entry level Finance positions actually pay about 25% more than entry level accounting positions. On average accounting is one of the lowest paying white collar jobs. Most average pay metrics include management roles which highly skew the pay figures.I don't think it ever occurred to me how low a teacher's salary really is. I make about 20K per year gross income, and if anyone knows how I'm supposed to even begin paying 120K in interest-accruing student loan debts on that without taking a major risk, please let me knowQuote:Originally Posted by?thatguydownsouth?3. Educational level. The expectation now is for you to have your CPA AND a Masters degree. The CPA takes people up to a year to complete and thanks to the SOX Act you are required to have completed 150 instead of 120 hours in college to get your CPA certificate. This is the equivalent of a Masters degree so most people just get a Masters in Accounting. Mind you this is to get paid on average less than most white collar workers.It doesn't matter how much you actually know as a teacher, you are expected to be an experienced expert right out of the gate. You are expected to know exactly what to do to help the kids, even if nothing ever prepared you for this kind of situation. You also aren't paid much more for your experience, because employers do sneaky things, like hire you to work out-of-field so they can get away with paying you much less than you are worth.?Quote:Originally Posted by?thatguydownsouth?4. Job security. This is sold as a benefit of the accounting industry. However in the current climate accountants are just as likely to get laid off as any other department.Tenure is a thing of the past at most schools here. Teachers work off of merit, and, while it forces us to try to get results, the odds are stacked against us. We sometimes have to deal with children who can't read, children who can't speak English, students with serious behavior issues, kids who just expect to get a grade for showing up, and other problems that make teaching anyone anything very difficult.?Oh, and did I mention you are likely to not even get a job without loads of experience and inside connections??Quote:Originally Posted by?thatguydownsouth?Had I known all of this in college I would not have gone into the field. Most of the people that I graduated with and have kept in contact with have left for a different career field.My sentiments as well. I love working with animals; I only kind of like working with kids. If I had it to do over again, I probably would have become a dog trainer or a veterinarian.What comes across to me after reading the comments is that too many recent college grads paid Big Money and incurred Big Debts in the belief that a college degree will lead to gainful employment with a good salary. That is the way it should be and used to be, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.Nowadays, qualified, educated graduates find themselves chasing down $15-dollar an hour jobs while being expected to pay their college loans, exorbitant rents and transport to these jobs. Something has got to give, and I don't know what.?The only consolation and advice I would offer is that you go for something you actually enjoy, rather than what seems pragmatic. Find an internship or get some experience before graduating; staying in a typical part-time job will not necessarily help with your post-grad job search.?One of my kids graduated with a degree in biochemistry. She has been a waitress for two years and actually likes it very much. Graduate school is not an option because of expense. She still lives at home. College loans will come due soon.Another of mine graduated with a degree in Classics and had a good job with an insurance company. They announced that all new hires must have business degrees and will only promote those with such. Many experienced employees have left in droves (including her and her manager).?Last kid didn't go to college. She works with horses and manages a company she and her general contractor husband run which is doing very well. He didn't attend college either. Next year they plan to buy a house (they also have two kids).Really, if I had it to do over again, I think I would have swallowed my pride and signed up to learn a trade. I could have gotten the training for free and started making money right away without going into debt. I was afraid to, though. I don't know why I was afraid. I guess I believed the lie that the university degree is all that matters and the rest would help me wind up in the unemployment line or flipping burgers.My stupid parents keep hassling me to get a job so ive applied at every fast food place and every other place ofering minium wage jobs (those are the only kind of jobs i can work in ). But I CANNOT find a job, not even at the arbys by my house, because of those stupid illegal alien leeches who keep taking work from me and other aspergians. those godd*mned ilegals that keep flodding our country are mostly filling up unskilled, menial labor jobs. those are pretty much the only jobs that WE aspies can work in, due to our intense mental block from aspergers, so the illegals are competing with us and of course they win because the liberals in charge of our contry love cheap ilegal labor and they hate a lot of us hard working real americans. that means that we aspies have to get rid of ilegals or else we wont be able to find work. I personally cannot find any work at all and so my idiot parents are nagging at me more than ever. We aspies need to band together to ship all the ilegals OUT. If any others out there have a similar experience as me and cannot find a job, then its probably becuase of ilegals... and for those that have a job, when you lose your job and you need to find a new one, you probably will not be able too, so dont think you are safe. we all need to band to gether to face this illegal alien hord threatening our nationWell, there is a point to be made that illegals are "stealing" young peoples jobs. Teenage unemployment in this country is something like 75%+ today and part of the reason for that is that illegal immigrants are doing jobs American teenagers use to do. A lot of adults are filling those jobs now too not just illegal immigrants with the 10%+ unemployment. It's near impossible job market for a young person to break into.[Vocational Rehab (States)]I contacted the Voc Rehab place a couple of times over the last 2 weeks. No response, I just left a message and nobody gets back to me. Can someone tell me about their personal vocational rehab experience? What type of job did they find for you? If you had some experience and a post-secondary education, did they attempt to match you up with an appropriate position? Did they just find you a job washing pots and pans somewhere?They paid my tuition to a vocational training program required in my state to obtain a license (which I already hold in another state). The operator of the training program continually discriminated against my autism during the entire process, finally blew up and screamed at me "Why can't you just be like everybody else!?" and refused to schedule my final test before a state inspector that would have completed the licensing process. The 'report card' statements sent to Vocational Rehab each month during the program contained clear evidence of the discrimination, yet when the operator breached the contract and refused to allow me to obtain my license, VR didn't even ask him for their money back. The very state agency supposedly designed to help those of us with disabilities just shrugged the whole thing off and left me to have to sue the training school by myself. I think they're worthless, spineless bureaucratic government employees paid to sit on their asses. They certainly are not the advocates for the disabled that they claim to be.What a crappy experience. I actually had some "good jobs" but buckled under the social pressure. I was hoping that vocational rehab would help me find a job that would be a little more forgiving of my social awkwardness.?Geez, maybe I should get a job with the U.S. government and "pretend" to help people.Jaydog1212 wrote:I contacted the Voc Rehab place a couple of times over the last 2 weeks. No response, I just left a message and nobody gets back to me. Can someone tell me about their personal vocational rehab experience? What type of job did they find for you? If you had some experience and a post-secondary education, did they attempt to match you up with an appropriate position? Did they just find you a job washing pots and pans somewhere?Gee , what a surprise. It is many yrs later and they still suck and are useless . You should see Cleveland's.. they never once answered the phones and then disconnected their number. Just shows that they can't 'handle' the problem, so shove it on to someone else. I know someone who had to move to FLA just to get decent diagnosis and REAL help. I was always willing to work and needed to work, while another person I know with another disability refused to work for '$2.20 an hour'. Parents should pay forever, for the life of their disabled child, which could be 60-70, 80 years. They had sex, they had children, it's on them. Not to mention how many parents totally ignored AS , autism, and/or denied it, leading to huge repercussions . No one is responsible for your kid, adult or otherwise. These 'programs' don't want the responsibility either. I told mine they should have thought of that when they were having sex, especially when these things are often genetic.Jaydog1212 wrote:What a crappy experience. I actually had some "good jobs" but buckled under the social pressure. I was hoping that vocational rehab would help me find a job that would be a little more forgiving of my social awkwardness.Geez, maybe I should get a job with the U.S. government and "pretend" to help people.. Go for it. They sit and get raises each year and there are plenty of people with 'problems' who can only get a job in the govt.I should know, I worked for several govt. agencies.Be very clear you want help to find a living wage job. Most vocational programs will if you let them find you a job not a good paying job. Find out how much rent food car payment and so on are were you live and do the math. If they refuse to help with a proper paying job you will have to drop them and do it yourself. On a upbeat note they sometimes do pay for training if they think you can do it. Most will test and see if they can help. Some will drop you if do too well. Others will close 1 eye and refuse to help with jobs more than crap wages. And they move very slowly do not think it will take only a few months.?This was in the united states i hav no idea how it works in other places.[States Vocational Rehab]I am just wondering, how many times you have to call the state voc rehab headquarters before someone helps you. the voc rehab person i have sits on his butt all day and does nothing to help me, give me some adviceThat is why I wish I never went to voc rehab. They did nothing but waste my time, set me up with the most incompetent job coaches and also had me work in a total hellhole of a workshop. I absolutely did not belong there and only got very angry and frustrated while languishing in that horrible place. All those idiots had to do was let me finish school and let me receive training for a real job for real people. Voc rehab was totally useless and unnecessary for me.Actually I went through the VA (Veteran's Association) Voc Rehab program.?It was great, I got a BA degree, and they payed for school and all related expenses, but I am service connected though.?Do STATES actually offer similar services?It's ashame because it's really a great idea but it's so badly run. I went to this place called Jevs services that helped me out with getting a job I wanted, but I had to go through the Office of Vocational rehab to get funding from them. It took this woman like a month to get in touch with me and I ended up yelling at her in a message I left her, and they set me up with someone who was about to retire. lol They also did that to this other person I knew who was getting funded by them. It's like ummm y would you set me up with someone who is going to retire like halfway through this process and then I'm going to have get used to a new person? lol Also the counseler I had never came to the meetings I had with my teachers at the JEVS site and she was supposed to be keeping track of my progress. lol I also had to wait for like 1 month just for the funding to go through originally. I got really depressed sitting at home like that.?Then I went back to Jevs because I was having trouble getting adjusted to that job and I had heard that they could give me a job coach. But jevs was basically just going to give me some job at Wawa that I didn't want because I wanted to stay at the nursing home. (I'm planning on becoming a CNA and a nurse eventually and working at Wawa is not meaningful for me) They said that was the only thing they could do for me and Jevs was like an hour and a half away so I missed my staff xmas party to go there and get no help. Then OVR calls me like a week later and starts sending me these letters about a job coach, but I didn't want any more help from them because I'd been jerked around so much.?Also they changed the public transportation funding after I had already brought a transpass. I give them credit because their idea for helping people is good but they don't know how to execute it well. Maybe they don't have enough funding or whatever.barcncpt44 wrote:I am just wondering, how many times you have to call the state voc rehab headquarters before someone helps you. the voc rehab person i have sits on his butt all day and does nothing to help me, give me some adviceI've never used the Voc-Rehab services (and I'm not too far from you, geographically, in AL). I *have* tried using the state's Mental Health services, and I think it's all way too underfunded. I was told on my last visit, which was about 5 years ago, that they don't offer individual counseling anymore, only group counseling. (I also didn't have a ASD diagnosis at the time either.)?The Black Hole for adults really does exist... all the services you could get as a child vanish when you grow up.?br0wser wrote:Quote:I've never used the Voc-Rehab services (and I'm not too far from you, geographically, in AL). I *have* tried using the state's Mental Health services, and I think it's all way too underfunded. I was told on my last visit, which was about 5 years ago, that they don't offer individual counseling anymore, only group counseling. (I also didn't have a ASD diagnosis at the time either.)?The Black Hole for adults really does exist... all the services you could get as a child vanish when you grow up.I guess that's Alabama for you?It's a pain in the butt a lot of times, especially if you decide to do some temporary work while looking for something permanent. Sometimes you get some incompetent job coach who won't do their job, and blames you for it, when you did your part of the bargain. All too often, you're playing phone tag with them as they're never in the office, or they call when you're not home. [Experience With Vocational Rehab? ]Anyone here have experience dealing with their local department of vocational rehab??I can't qualify where I live but my career counselor (private service so I can only afford a few sessions) says they are real hit and miss with understanding AS. She told me that she has heard stories of AS people who do qualify and then matched with counselors who know nothing about AS and blame them for their own problems. She also said she has heard a few success stories.?I am thinking of applying multiple times to see if I can eventually be qualified.?What are your experiences?They got me my current job after I had been unemployed since Jan.10.?However, it's a crappy job that I hate and I think I'm about to get fired from.?In my experience, they tend to get your hopes up....they'll ACT like they're on the verge of getting you a good job, but never pull through. They've said I'm their most qualified client (I suppose because I have a master's), but they sure don't show it.I went to VR in CA. They immediately handed me off to a nonprofit called Pride Industries, then washed their hands of me. Pride evaluated me, made me jump through hoops, then said I was too high functioning for them, they have a warehouse where severely mentally retarded people make boxes and stuff. So they handed me the URL for a job board website and told me to find my own job. At that point I said phooey this, and went to vocational school. That was 2005. I still don't have a job.They did set me up with an organization that helps people with disabilities find employment, but in the end, I'm still underemployed, and it's taking a long time to get VR to reopen my case so I could start looking for a job with more hours than I'm getting at my current job. Even then, I'm sticking with my job even if I'm only working 3 hours a week now if business isn't too slow as the economy is still crappy where I am. In a great week, I may work 6 hours. I've jumped through the hoops the organization wants me to do in order for my case to be reopened, including getting a physical from my doctor, but it's still taking a long time for VR to reopen my case as they do consider me to be "employed."[Having a Hard Time Finding a Job]hi, new member here, i have been looking around my area for work and can't seem to find anything. i had two interviews in october but never heard back. tried the community college, but my grant ran out due to fact i was taking so long to graduate. i am always on the look out for employment. tried the local supermarket, they supposedly hire people with disabilities. right now they are just not hiring. i hope to get work soon because being home all the time is making me stir crazy.Depending on how low you're willing to set the bar, you could try fast food. Your odds at getting a job are better in fast food than supermarkets. It's not ideal, but in a pinch...i once worked in fast food though i could give it another try i was 20 when i worked fast food almost ten years ago and lasted about two months.i had about 4 jobs since then and i get easily frustrated so i end leaving but the only problem is that there is a gap in my employment for about 1 1/2 years. right now i am on ssi but would like to move on from it by finding some stable employment. plus i am not really good at fast paced jobs, i also feel uncomfortable telling my possible employer about my ASD. i feel they may not hire because of it.It's not just you that's having a hard time getting a job.The job market hasn't fully rebounded, giving the employers the upper hand.Even new and recent college grads like myself are finding it very hard to find any employment, due to all the requirements now.There is also a huge amount of laid off experienced workers who are unable to land employment for various reasons.?If you can't find work on your own soon, try going to your state/province employment office, they should have a program for disabled people as well.?Also if you are good at networking, you should do better than most at finding a job.---As for Fast Food, right now you are competing against middle aged folk.They would rather have middle aged folk than young people, because middle aged folk are more loyal and unlikely to run off for better pastures.?Yes even McDonald's it trying to reduce turnover by hiring middle aged people.?Beware many fast food franchises are now requiring 4 year college degrees for employment (they started this last year).yeah i know i am from michigan as well and employment is hard to find, asd or not. i guess i will have to keep doing what i can for employmentgitaryan wrote:yeah i know i am from michigan as well and employment is hard to find, asd or not. i guess i will have to keep doing what i can for employmentIf you're that desperate for work, then go to the Michigan Rehabilitation Services Office (MRS).?They are the state agency that helps people with disabilities land jobs.?You need to go to their site and download the form.Fill the form out and turn it into your nearest MRS office.?They will then contact you normally through mail to come to a group appointment and go from there.Hello. Maybe this can be of use to some of you. I am Sam, of Everyday Aspergers (). I currently work for this company. They are interested in people with high interest in technology. They pay $15 an hour to start, but work hours do vary; it's ideal for someone needed a supplemental income. There is potential for full-time employment. The hiring process is detailed and takes time. Feel free to friend me on Facebook through my blog link. Best to you.?Public Job Posting for Part-Time Software Testers3/3/15 Remote Software Tester/ Part-Time Independent Contractor (open to US citizens and permanent residents)ULTRA Testing is a technology company that provides high quality, highly responsive software testing services through exceptional teams that include individuals with Asperger Syndrome and similar Autism Spectrum profiles. ULTRA Testing is currently recruiting part-time, remote (work-from-home) independent contractors to work as Software Testers. Work available for independent contractors can vary from week to week, ranging from over 20 hours during some weeks to 0 hours during other weeks. Software testing experience is not required, but a strong interest in technology and familiarity with different types of software is necessary. Long-term and eventual full-time employment is possible, and strong consideration will be given to applicants who are actively seeking a long-term position. The recruiting process takes approximately 8 to 10 weeks from initial application to final decision.?Steps for Potential Candidates:1. Review the job description.?2. Complete the online questionnaire. The form includes instructions for the next step after completing the questionnaire. ... GLUQU/edit?copy and paste link to see description and questionnaire.xenocity wrote:It's not just you that's having a hard time getting a job.Beware many fast food franchises are now requiring 4 year college degrees for employment (they started this last year).I find that hard to believe. Maybe in upper management but not as a line-worker. If anything they probably wouldn't want to hire people with degrees to do those low skilled jobs because they will jump ship the minute a better job becomes available so looking for college grads in fast food makes zero sense. If anything they probably prefer uneducated people who won't leave thus reducing turn over.?To topic creator: Try temporary employment agencies. They can help you out in finding work and some of them provide career training. Temp jobs are dime a dozen and many can go from temp-perm.[Minimum Wage Jobs—Worse than the 80’s]When my parents worked minimum wage jobs in the 80's they made up to $300 per week, even at $4 per hour. Now, it's $8 an hour but the most anyone wants to give is about 10 hours a week to save company money.So, how are people ever supposed to get anywhere?By being born into the wealthy or upper middle class.....or by finding a different job.Improving yourself, your knowledge, your skills etc and then finding a better paying job w/ more hours.And of course by living below your means as your means increase, so that when you do earn more money you're saving as much of the excess as you can after your basic needs are met.I say this as it's been my experience. Improved myself, got better paying job(s), pay for what I Need & save/invest almost all of the rest. I was broke a couple years ago. Now I'm in the black and continuing to stack cash as fast as I can even though I do not earn a lot of money - although it's better than just one or two shifts a week at minimum wage.goldfish21 wrote:..or by finding a different job. Improving yourself, your knowledge, your skills etc and then finding a better paying job w/ more hours.THIS^It is unreasonable to expect employers to employ people in high-paying jobs if those people don't have the skills and education to actually?do?those jobs. It is equally unreasonable to expect to be paid more than minimum wage to fill a position that requires few skills and little training.With hundreds (if not thousands) of unskilled people applying for minimum-wage jobs, the advantage goes to the employers. If an employee doesn't work out, an employer can literally hire the next person through the door, offer the same wage, and hire that person on the spot.People run businesses to make profit, not to provide jobs.There is one way where young college age persons have it harder today than in the 80s and 90s and that is with college costs. They have skyrocketed because the schools, through the student loan program, are insulated from the consequences of their increases as well as from the students not paying when they cannot find a job after they get a degree (or don't).Now I know older people who say that without student loans, they would not have gone to college but that was before hyperinflation took over college costs. I did some pretty radical things in the 00 decade to get my student loans paid off and that is what it takes these days. I think students today will have it harder.The solution would be to end the student loan program. Those at the lower rung of society will have to wait 1 -2 years before the college cost bubble pops completely before college becomes affordable again but that is a better price than the current situation. We could also use the funds currently being put aside for student loans to pay for vocational education at the high school level or to fund Obama's plan for free community college.In the meantime, the best bet for anyone at minimum wage is to find a way to increase their skills so that they are in demand by employers. If you really want it and are willing to sacrifice, you can still get ahead even today.goldfish21 wrote:..or by finding a different job.Improving yourself, your knowledge, your skills etc and then finding a better paying job w/ more hours.And of course by living below your means as your means increase, so that when you do earn more money you're saving as much of the excess as you can after your basic needs are met.I say this as it's been my experience. Improved myself, got better paying job(s), pay for what I Need & save/invest almost all of the rest. I was broke a couple years ago. Now I'm in the black and continuing to stack cash as fast as I can even though I do not earn a lot of money - although it's better than just one or two shifts a week at minimum wage.That's kind of my thinking, too. My mother (and some of our relatives and her friends) complain about the minimum wage. NOW, I do think it's disgusting that a CEO makes millions a year while the front line workers are making bupkiss and relying on government programs for their benefits.?But, I didn't like it, so I didn't keep doing it.I lived in a podunk town with limited job opportunities, almost all minimum wage. I showed up on time and followed all the rules and was honest (not like I couldn't not be lol) and only made min wage for three months. Thereafter, any job I took that typically paid minimum wage, I would ask for more, and I would get it. I'm not saying all employers would say yes, I'm just saying I wouldn't work for the ones that said no.Unfortunately, if I wanted to make more money, I had to leave my podunk town and work in the city. First I took the train in (yay public transit, even if it took three times as long as driving would have), then I moved to the city because I hated wasting all that time.I've gotten pretty mad at my mom because she was sacked and looking for work, and I told her I'd get her a job in the housekeeping department of the hospital I worked at (highest turnover of any department), then, after a year, she could've met folks in other departments and transferred to something better.But, she was offended I suggested housekeeping, and she didn't want to work in the city.?Well, hello. If you'd rather be unemployed for three years instead of working in a housekeeping job (which paid more than min wage AND had benefits) and taking a train or driving in traffic... well, sorry, but, she's gotten what she deserves... you put forth the absolute minimum, you deserve the absolute minimum in return.Sorry, my disdain for my mom and the circle I had to grow up around part-time shouldn't reflect on those who don't live close enough to a big city to get a job... I am obviously too close to the bad decisions of those in my family who would rather party and get hungover and call off work then wail about how unfair it all is.The #1 factor for success, when controlling for all other factors like race and gender and parental income is... the people you hang out with. Fill your social circles with those better than you (I originally found mine through church, then professional user groups). They have their stuff together, can give you good advice, and won't be a drain on you.I agree with what the others have said well... live far below your means, so you can build the capital to get to the next rung on the ladder.?And don't get me started on education... yes, so far slanted toward those with financial resources already.?If you're estranged from your parents, student loans are out of your reach until you're 22 (maybe it's even up to 25 now), so the deck is stacked against you further.Sorry for the wall of text.?Job searching blows. Being uneducated blows. Being broke blows.But, don't get stuck in a rut just doing what everyone around you is doing.?This year, I will pay more in taxes than all three of my parents even earned put together. It was a long, tiring road that I thought would kill more or drive me mad a few times, but, ones my kids won't have to walk down, thanks to some good decisions on my part when I was younger.[Work And Voc Rehab?]So I am wondering what your guys experiences with Voc Rehab have been? I have been with them for over a year now and still dont have a job. I did a 100 hour paid work experience thing at safeway and that didnt turn into a job. From what I understand it was more of the way they were hiring when I got done with the hundred hours. They had just moved to where corporate had to call me and such. Or and I really hope this wasnt the case but they could of just used me as free labor. When I worked for them I didnt hear a thing eather way about weather I was doing good or bad. What are your ecperiences with Voc Rehab??Also maybe someone on here knows the job market in Rapid City South Dakota? Do you see South Dakota as a "booming" place for jobs? I am mainly looking for something in security or computers.?Sorry if this seems disjointed im kinda not sure how to phrase this stuff and such.Voc Rehab did almost nothing for me. They gave me $75 a month for transportation related to job searching and a job coach who helped me with my resumé and cover letter, and gave a bit of advice about which industries I should pursue work in, and paid for work clothes. That's it; nothing related to my specific problems with work, no job leads I couldn't have found myself, no testing.My experience wasn't helpful but I went to em because of physical disabilities instead of AS. I have a rare low vision disorder & my counselor was completely blind & I think she felt I should be able to do all these things instead of needing help because she could but her condition was known all her life & she received help as a kid & teen but my conditions weren't diagnosed till my sneior year of high-school so I was thrown to the wolves so the speak when I was in school instead of having proper help. She also only focused on my vision disorder which is my most limiting thing but my other conditions should of been factored in too. She just kept telling me to assert myself with employers instead of actually trying to talk to employers & help me get job interviews for me. I was doing all the work myself so it was like I wasn't working with voc rehab except I had to keep checking in with em so it was extra work. I was in Louisiana thou & I hear they're worse than lots of other states because politicians want to completely cut all social programs to give more tax breaks for businesses but they cant completely cut the programs so they gut as much as they can & people who need em get butt-f#cked.nick007 wrote:I was doing all the work myself so it was like I wasn't working with voc rehab except I had to keep checking in with em so it was extra work.Same with me. I found almost all of my job leads myself, and I was completely responsible for the applications and setting up the interviews. All of the hard part of job searching was on me.I am more then halfway through the training, my Microsoft Office skills are better and more up to date but my keyboarding still sucks so I don't see myself anymore marketable at the end. That I will have to do all of the job searching by myself WTF, why did I need them?. Why do I need to go there to use their computers to go ? To find jobs online is the least effective way. What I need is leads and some of the networking done for me and that is just not provided. If I am burnt-out from job hunting and need a break and I report nothing for that week they will have no understanding. These people put the handicapped parking spaces in the BACK of the parking lot. The 2 of the 3 teachers (the bully teacher I did not have) and the students are understanding and kind, hell they glued my glasses back together when when frame broke but the bureaucracy they work for is s**t.Dealing with Nevada vocRehab has been the most depressing experience I have ever had. They aren't able to deal with anyone with a mental challenge. I don't think they even believe people have mental problems. Sure if you are a construction worker who was in an accident and had both legs cut off, they can see that and help you. No see, no help. When it comes to employment their experience is limited to the lowest levels such as McDonalds. They can't comprehend higher level jobs such as computer programmers and engineers. They never revel to you what their policies are putting the client at a big disadvantage.This is the most incompetent, unhelpful, lying, and very likely fraudulent (They accept money from the Federal government without intending to help clients.) agency in government.When you go get help from the Client Assistance Program, they act more like an advocate for vocRehab than for you, the client. More on this in a new topic.My experience was interesting. Vocational counselor never placed anyone in the IT field before. Vocational assessment with a partner agency took a year to get. It lasted a day. It was a data entry position. Assessor watched every move I made. Instruction was near constant. No personal space. That and fatigue problems lead to a cognitive shut down. He tells my voc counselor I'm essentially unemployable. That lead to a recommendation of partial hospitalization.?My assessor meant well as did all other parties involved. Such was my experience.I'm with them now doing nonpaid trial work which is basically them just seeing if I'm worth investing any money into. My experience with counselors has been 50/50, 2 good and 2 bad. If you don't like the counselor they assign to you then I would suggest seeing if you could request a new one. At first they had me work at some KMart since I lived far out and there weren't a lot of options and that last about 2-3 days before I ran into some issues and they put me on hold. I've since moved into the city where there is a lot more opportunities and I'm back at it again, they have me resuming the trial at some basic IT type training place ran by a company that contracts out for Voc Rehab. The owner or whatever of this company seems to like me and I write her emails and stuff to keep her updated on what I am doing, I like the instructor I work with too. Soon I'll be moving on to the next step in which they also pay me so that's nice, Voc Rehab has told me they could pay for me to go to school too which is a real opportunity if it turns out. I'm just taking it as it comes tho, I don't have any other options.[Ever Been to Voc Rehab? How Was it? I Hated It]So, had any kind of experience with Voc Rehab before? Was it worth it? In my case, I felt like it was very negative and often why I don’t like seeking people for help much. It seems to be designed for “normal” people who could work just fine before something happened to them, not people like me who had trouble from the start. First I got on the waiting list and they said they would get me into a workshop, which they did, after like six months. So I got in and had to do some really boring work almost all day while getting paid by how much work was done, which was below minimum wage. So it wasn’t a “real job” and supposed to be a training program for such, but in the back of my mind, I can’t help but wonder why I couldn’t do the “real job” like that and get paid a lot more.?I had to get up really early in the morning and go to a pickup point since for whatever reason they wouldn’t directly come to the house. I dad to stay on the van for about two hours with basically nothing to do except maybe catch up on some sleep if possible. Also had to wait about a couple of hours on the van on the way back home, which was just actually me getting dropped off at the same pickup point. So I either had to walk back or wait for my mother to pick me up. By the time I got home, it’ll be dark and I’ll have maybe around four hours of free time. Repeat this for five days a week and I felt my sanity slipping away. I would daydream about the many fun things I could be doing or at least getting paid more for the same boring work. Really, what’s the point of having a job that sucks away almost all my free time? It’s like I’m not really living if I’m just serving someone else most of the time. It’s also not like I had family or children to support to just basically throw away most of my free time. I feel that I got too many useful talents to just waste my life away doing something that anyone with working muscles can do.?I had a couple of problems at the pickup points. At a church, some guy said something about how women and children would come to the church at that time and if they saw me, may get scared and call the police. He said I should move to the other side of the street or something. Excuse me? While he didn’t flat out said it and may have even been trying to help me out (which I usually hate when people do), I would have been viewed as a criminal just for waiting to get picked up? Are you freaking serious? If those people showed up and called the cops, what case would they have against me anyway? I’m not allowed to stand and wait in a parking lot without breaking some kind of law? The guy could have just made the whole thing up.?After that, the pickup point was changed, but this time, I was standing around some cars. One guy decided that he didn’t like me standing too close to a car, so he told me to step away from it. Oh what, I can’t even stand close to a car without somehow being up to no good? So I just end up waiting on the grass. Not quite as big as the other event, but the rage built up from the boring work, the hours spent on the van, the low paid, the annoying people, and the lack of free time. It’s like I wasn’t welcome to simply stand around. Okay, so neither of these events are directly Voc Rehab’s fault, but I felt they could have been averted if they would just simply drop me off directly at the house, but no, they gonna have some policy where they can’t do that for whatever reason.?I never attended a full five days a week in a row there like I was supposed to like everyone else. Around a month later, the stress just built up to the point where I quit. Was it really worth staying in there for months and months with hardly any free time and losing my sanity? What good would a job doing the same kind of work had done if I already lost my mind??So over a year later, I would attempt another program they had, where I would go to another city and stay in a building for almost a week where I would get training to get into intense college work or something like that. I was supposed to stay for at least four weeks, only going home during the day on Friday and coming in on Sunday. Basically, only one full day at home. I wasn’t at all used to being away from home like that. I would be in a dorm room with another guy who I barely talked too. I would go to the vending machines a lot instead of having lunch or dinner with the others, usually after they ate. People were expected to go into the swimming pool, but I didn’t want to for my own personal reasons, so I had to go into the gym twice per day. That reason wasn’t because of being scared of the water either like they thought it was. They would not stop nagging me about that. In fact, it was like they gone out of their way to nag me when I made it clear multiple times that I didn’t want to be bothered. Seriously, my level of anti-socialness must have skyrocketed while I was out there. When I don’t want to be bothered with, that means I don’t want to be bothered with! That doesn’t mean to try to “fix” it. During the first day, a woman about twice my age tried to cheer me up by robbing my hair. I hate being touched, especially by complete strangers! I could barely say hi and others got mad if I didn’t greet them back. I think having a laptop with me helped kept me somewhat sane during the whole thing, since I could go online and burn hours away. It was like the place was very anti-Asperger’s, not at all respecting how I felt.?After two weeks, I didn’t want to go back anymore. Some other random events later and I closed my case. Maybe I was just in the wrong Voc Rehab or the whole thing is entirely unsuitable for me. If they did one thing well, they sure did a good job of giving me reason to not have faith in humanity and bother with most places that don’t know what Asperger’s is. In fact, I don’t know how much of it was Asperger’s and how much of it was just my own personality, but I do know I hated the experience.i'm sure glad to see i am not the only one who had an experience similar to yours, TheDeviantOne. where we differ is that 1] my experience wasn't quite as bad as yours, and 2]i was in my local program for almost a year, treated all the while like the mental defective that i was/am. it was humiliating to be talked down-to. i think the experience permanently warped my self-esteem even more than being bullied through school. at the end of it i felt very ready to be committed to western state [mental] hospital, as i had my spirit cut down to the same level of personal efficacy as an institutional inmate.This program is clearly not suited for people with aspergers. The days are far too long, and the people there have no training to deal with aspies. Sigh....actually a lot of what you talked about reminded me of school. People nagging on me with stupid ideas about how to fix me by forcing me to do stuff. You have to be integrated gradually.?My little brother did a work program and they seem to have it down pretty good. He works 3 days a week 4 hours a day. He comes home pretty burned out after that, so I applaud you for being able to tolerate the hours you have. I wish I could advocate for you with them to help them understand your needs better!These sound like just going-through-the-motions Voc Rehab. If instead, the program is teaching something like GIS, then you have a chance at it (although I understand a lot of these GIS jobs are now being outsourced to India). I've heard the trick with high tech is anticipating the next wave.?And it need not be high tech. It could also be something like air conditioning repair, if the program actually and realistically expects jobs to be available when you finish the program.?Or it could also be sales, that's tricky because there are so many rip-off sales outfits. The advantage to sales is the baseline. There are just a lot of sales jobs. (now, some of the "jobs" advertised aren't really jobs at all, they're MLM outfits selling kits). The distinguishing feature, a bonafide job versus a bs job, is that the bonafide job pays you during training. That's key. It's almost a litmus test. Another advantage of a sales job, just like I've read that the comedienne Carol Leifer is a shy person in her personal life and I think a fair number of show business people are, is that sales lets you build and develop your skills in a controlled settting. Just like I often enjoy a games party more than a party where people are just standing around talking. And the reason I emphasize sales is that a large part of a modern economy (20%? 30%?) is sales.And it sure seems like these programs blame the person, instead of questioning and improving the system. Even during a "good" economy, unemployment is 5%. It almost seems like that is hardwired into an advanced, modern, corporate-controlled(?) economy. (Imagine if there was a 5% shortage of insulin and people went around saying, 'oh, it's a great market for insulin-seekers'? Well, that's exactly what we do with jobs!)?And of course these days, the economy is anything but good. The official, traditional unemployment rate is 10%. Something called the U6 employment, which includes such statistics as people wanting full-time work who are only able to find part-time, that is 16%. This is the situation for the United States.auntblabby wrote:. . . treated all the while like the mental defective that i was/am. . .And in the tradition of that great scene from the movie Spartacus, please allow me to say . . .?'No, I am a mental defective!'?I have my weaknesses, Oh, I do indeed have my weaknesses, and I have my strengths. And sometimes they are one in the same, like a coin flipping over. It all depends on the situation.Craig Kendall's new book that is targeted toward adult Aspies suggests Voc Rehab as a place to check out. From the sounds of it here and of course, my own experience, they are not very well suited to helping Aspies find a job that well, although surely someone here will debunk that. During those long hours at the workshop for five days a week, I felt that I would need a part time job instead of a full time job, but it seems like wanting part time instead of full time has a negative view toward it, like you're lazy or not putting in enough effort. If I had shorter hours for less days, I might have actually gone a lot further, if not made it through, to who knows what.?If the workshop was supposed to be a litmus test or a way to filter out those that couldn't handle whatever they planned on doing, I sure failed that aspect. It was like the pressure was put on the whole thing being my fault. Really, what was I supposed to do, somehow rewire my brain to keep up with everyone else and not get bored out of my mind? So a job usually is boring and people are expected to deal with that for years and years. However, I feel that wouldn't be a meaningful life for me, to just simply do the same tasks over and over that require no creative thought. I felt I had skills that could be put to use elsewhere and that going in that direction would have gotten me that kind of work instead of something more suited to what I can do well.?I don't know if the co-workers at any of those programs I been to knew I had AS, but I felt that would have made it worse, because they likely would have pushed even further to "correct my flaws" and treat me as "that special one". Really, they likely would have known me more for AS than anything else. A label and stereotype that could have led to people getting the wrong ideas. Surely the people I spoke to get into those programs, I had to mention having AS, so clearly they didn't know what to do with that information.I am in the minority who is really happy with my Voc Rehab person. Everyone else I have talked to who has her as their counselor loves her too. She understands Asperger's, listens to what I have to say, and has given me some very helpful advice. Unfortunately, she is also based in my uni town, and I am leaving there for good next week. I hope that whoever I get for Voc Rehab back home is as talented and compassionate as this person is. From what I am reading on this thread and others, though, I'm not going to get my hopes up very high...I was happy with my first experience through Voc Rehab when I lived in Tampa. They helped me get my job at Walmart, which I still have to this day (it'll be four years in july if I keep it that long.) But now since I'm in danger of losing my job, I'm currently going through them again here in Naples. So far I'm a bit iffy about this experience, but it's only been about a week. My counselor suggested I have a meeting with my HR person and my mother, in order to help them understand and perhaps find out how I can be a better employee. Thing is, they (work) said I can't bring my mother, and that the meeting will be with the HR woman and my store manager. But, my HR manager said that if I'm not satisfied with the first meeting, that I can try and arrange another meeting with her and either my mother or VR counselor. First meeting's on Thursday.?My dad seems to think the first meeting is a setup. Of course I'm nervous in spite of all that. I'm trying to remember, this IS Walmart. I've read things...but my mother has been helpful enough to compile some info and questions that I will bring to this first meeting. I'm not expecting much, other then for them to not care much.Fehndrix, your Dad might be right. This thing might be a set-up. Or, them just going through the motions when they're already made up their mind.?2 vs. 1, that's just not a good dynamic. There's a messy, complicated situation, but they need to have a "good" reason to fire someone, so they formalize it. They dress it up in formal language. It can end up being a half lie, and the two managers can end up believing their own lie. It can be a very negative dynamic.?Or, the manager just wants to make sure that you take a previous situation serious and still has confidence that you can be a good employee.?Or, other things.?One thing I'd recommend, as a fomer poker player, consider a poker pause. 'So, you like your hand.' Probably won't give me a read on the other player (it might), but it gives me a pause. It's okay to fold, it's okay to call.?So think of a short phrase or two that will give you thinking space and breathing space. And almost the shorter, the more matter-of-fact, and the more plain vanilla, the better.?And if need be, be prepared to physically stand up, place one foot ahead of the other, and walk out of that room. And you don't even need to say anything if that feels like the right thing to do.I was with Voc Rehab starting sometime early/mid-2009 and i think it helped a bit . . . at least to control my depression. I recently got a job through a staffing agency that worked with VR. Granted, it's not something i want to do the rest of my life (due to physical, sound, and deadline stress not to mention a developing case of carpal tunnel), but I have little choice in the matter. On the up side, it's close enough to what i got my Assoc. degree in so i cannot complain too much at the moment. It really depends on who your VR adviser is and his/her personality (mine was a fun guy, good to joke around with and whatnot).A staffing firm contacted me about a contract position at a very low billing rate that would convert to full time after three months. I go to the interview at the client and find out the position is a straight contract for 3 - 4 months with no possibility of going full time. The client calls the staffing firm recruiter within a couple of hours of the interview to say they wanted me; the recruiter then calls to offer the "position". I told him I was declining and he is gets pi**y with me for refusing the "offer". He tries to tell me I am "obligated" to accept the position since I agreed to interview. I tell him I have as much right to decline an offer as the firm has to NOT make an offer. He then tries to guilt me out that I put him "on the spot" with the client because they cancelled other interviews after speaking with him. I then suggest he have the client reschedule the cancelled interviews, told him to have a nice day, and hung up.You are lucky the client was honest with you. A lot of the clients collude with the agency to lie and tell you it is a temp-to-perm position when by and large they are almost always crappy contract jobs with the to hire being used as bait and a carrot on the end of a stick to sucker the worker into taking the job and being motivated.I posted a stat over and over again on a study by the WE Upjohn Institute for employment research that only 27% of these "temp-to-hire" jobs actually turn permanent.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?I posted a stat over and over again on a study by the WE Upjohn Institute for employment research that only 27% of these "temp-to-hire" jobs actually turn permanent.True, but is the reason for that more the fault of the employee or the employer? Companies say it is the worker not picking up their part of the bargain (tardiness etc)staffing agencies are used car salesmen.Originally Posted by?sandsthetime?True, but is the reason for that more the fault of the employee or the employer? Companies say it is the worker not picking up their part of the bargain (tardiness etc)I seriously doubt that 73% of workers in temp to hire jobs are not up to par performance wise. Maybe if it was reversed and 27% get let go for performance reasons I'd buy that not 73% no way. That is corporate e on people....everybody and their grandmother knows that "temp to perm" is the carrot they dangle in front of your nose to get you to stay there..To get you to NOT look for other permanent offers while you're there. They want to completely own you while you're on their clock and off. And they don't want you to have any other big ideas such as getting a REAL job offer. Also, if you believe that rubbish, you will perform better and try to impress them in the mistaken belief that they will keep you 'cos you "stood out from the herd." RUBBISH. They're using you. You are disposable.on top of that, most of the time, no health benefits, no PTO, no paid holidays, no sick days, no 401K, no end of year bonus, and no respectMy neighbor tells me all of these stories about the "crap" (his words, not mine) he has to deal with. He told me the people are rude and talk down to him. These are internal customers calling, not external. I was surprised that the internal customers are rude.I've heard stories about call centers and most never seem to be good. No one seems to like their call center job.Are these dead end jobs? Why do people dislike them so much?Do you mean like telemarketing? it's a boring, dead-end job... unless you enjoy sitting down and talking to people for hoursIf all is relates to telemarketing have seen the sales boys who goes door to door for selling their products same way only thing you have to sit with the phone and start making the sales the product will be any thing as per company in which it deals with..this job is very risky and task-able your boss may even throw you out if you don't effort to complete the task .To answer your questions, yes I have but I quit after few days.Not for meThis has been discussed multiple times on this forum, and the basics are that you only want to work at a call center if you like having your breaks timed (including bathroom), having supervisors micromanage and threaten you everyday, customers curse you out with the most vile of words, and dreading going into work everyday.It's absolutely true, as someone who has worked in internal IT support environments for three F500 companies.First, many inbound call centers are inadequately staffed, leading to long wait times for callers. If they're calling an IT call center, they are likely experiencing a problem, so they're going to be irritated already. Put them in a long queue and the callers can be downright hostile as soon as they reach the call center rep, even though the rep had nothing to do with either the original problem or the delay.Call center work is often low paid with few benefits and lousy working conditions. I never made more than $16/hr in any call center role. Each employee had to meet a certain level of "schedule adherence" - so going to the bathroom or taking any unscheduled break is highly discouraged. At our help desk, you also had to meet goals for "average handle time" (length of call), first call resolution rate, customer surveys, and meet certain standards for "call quality" as gauged by the QA staff. Of course - the metrics kept getting more difficult to meet and those who didn't meet the threshold were cut. It's probably the most numbers driven business I can think of.It's utter trash work. I'd rather sweep the floors at Walmart and would do virtually anything else before working in a call center.I had a IT support job for 4 months, and even though it is was better than most support jobs, I still hated it.The metrics didn't bother me, no one cared as long as you were average. I wasn't micromanaged, in fact the managers forgot about me, and stopped giving me evaluations. Sometimes they did listen to my calls, but they never talked to me about them. They also fired my colleagues in cruel ways.?The customers was mostly nice after I learned how to do my job, so that wasn't so bad. So why did I hate it? Because it was boring, uninspiring and I generally disliked being stuck to a phone all day. In addition the managers didn't care about the customers, so I was forced to screw some of them over due to company policy. This was a temporary job I took, before I headed back to my home town.[Is the job market really improving or is it just today liberal rhetoric for re-election?]Intel cutting 12,000 jobs?Intel to cut 12,000 jobs globally - Apr. 19, 2016Tons of manufacturers heading off shore or to Mexico. My own company centralizing 5 million offices (It seems anyways) and hundreds of people losing their jobs as a result. Companies lowballing on job offers and controlling the market and all the shots.?Im always hearing how we have been pulled out of the "funk" but then you hear of all these job cuts going on all over the place. Its hard to believe America is thriving in any sense of the word when you constantly hear these stories every day.Everyone constantly cutting expenses and trying to go "Lean and Mean" doesn't seem to coincide with a healthy job market to me anywaysJob market is hit or miss depending on sector and region to some degree. Old school, low skill jobs are not coming back in volume and at high salary. That's gone for good. Still, most economic indicators have been up. People are working and spending. Someone is finding jobs and making money.Lots of jobs with lots of applicants.I'm in Seattle, it's crazy here. As HR Manager/Recruiter I've posted accounting jobs last year and had 60 resumes in a couple of days, this year, it was 10 for basically the same position.?Sorry man, look at the BLS, more jobs, more money being earned. If your skilled & struggling, it's time to relocate.There are jobs for skilled people that pay well and jobs for unskilled people that pay minimum wage, and very little in between. The days where a relatively unskilled or low skilled person could break in to the middle class through hard work alone are now gone. The low/moderate intelligence, good work ethic American can fight for scraps with the rest of the third world now.It's all location and skill based. If you're in a depressed area, you're likely screwed. If you have some skills and are in/willing to be in a major metro, it's much better.Originally Posted by?Sockeye66?I'm in Seattle, it's crazy here. As HR Manager/Recruiter I've posted accounting jobs last year and had 60 resumes in a couple of days, this year, it was 10 for basically the same position.?Sorry man, look at the BLS, more jobs, more money being earned. If your skilled & struggling, it's time to relocate.I'm having the same experience, 20-30 applicants rather than the usual 100 for positions paying $60-100k. The layoffs at places like Nordstrom are now offset by more hiring at places Amazon and Expedia, we have a much more diverse economy and that means more jobs.Fnord wrote:You have to have marketable skills.You have to present yourself as a reasonably cheerful and reasonably sociable person.You have to show up to the interview on time and ready to work.You have to stay out of trouble and show respect for supervisors.This doesn't really apply panies do heavy screening online and if your resume doesn't exactly match the key words they are using, you won't get picked.?They want perfect matches.?The biggest issue right now is the global and national economies of most of the world including the developed world has been stuck in a JOBLESS recovery.?No one wants to hire new hires because they don't want to train anyone anymore.?HR departments do all the screening, interviewing and hiring.?You rarely interact with the team and department until after HR hires you.?In my case HR knows jack about the job they are hiring for, for the departments.?Try explaining software and other technology stuff to an HR person who has no basic understanding of technology or marketing for that matter.?Those interviews were the worst, HR just didn't get what I was saying because they lacked the background in the field.?I've interviewed for jobs that I was perfect for, but I didn't know "their" software existed.?They didn't want to give me time to adjust to their software (most cases a few days).?They told me they liked me, but decided to wait for the "perfect" person.?It doesn't help that here in the Great Lakes States, getting an entry level position in most companies requires a minimum of 3+ years of?industry experience (General Work Experience doesn't count), some ask for as much as 5-7+ years for entry level.?Many also ask for industry certifications (Which you have to be employed to get) to get these entry level positions.?Internships are few and far between, most requiring at least 1-2+?industry experience (General Work Experience doesn't count)?with many asking for completed Bachelors and Masters degrees.?Most are unpaid.?My NT sister, who's only health issue is needing glasses and is second year medical school can't find a medical based internship, not even her professors know of any.?The job market is completely screwed up still.If you know the right person, you can get hired right away without needing any work experience or have any knowledge of job.?So yeah all that stuff you listed isn't worth much these days.A lot of companies especially mid to large have moved on from it.?A lot of mid to large companies now outsource HR duties including first few rounds of interviewing/hiring to staffing firms (I hate dealing with said staffing firms).The staffing firms then select the candidates they think fits the description they were handed to a T to the company who's hiring.?The company that's hiring will either review the data and:1) Reject everyone2) Pick someone and hire them3) Pick the ones they like the best and do their own final interview, hopefully hire someone.?The staffing company has no in depth knowledge of the company and no in depth knowledge of the job they are tasked with hiring over rendering the whole process pointless for most people.?In my case with staffing firms have gone this way:Do their online applications and personality tests (takes over an hour to complete) > Do phone interview > do in person interview with the staffing company > do another round of staffing company > wait to see if hiring company likes the what is sent over about me > maybe hear back.?Or it is just being logged in a database, hoping that my resume gets flagged when a company is looking to hire someone?This is how it works with recruiters...When applying/interviewing with mid to large companies it's gone like this:Submit resume, cover letter, contact list, and/or anything else they are asking for > Fill it all in by hand on their digital form as well (takes up to an hour) > Fill in/answer all other questions asked (can take up to an hour) > Take personality test (can take up to an hour) > do phone interview with HR who lacks in depth knowledge about the department and job > in person interview with HR who lacks in depth knowledge about the department and job and is following the literal description and requirements because they don't have in depth knowledge of IT/Marketing (in my case) > Do round 2 of in person interviews with more HR people who lacks in depth knowledge about the department and job > do round 3 of interviewing with HR people lacks in depth knowledge about the department and job.?You get three out comes:1) Hired without ever interacting with anyone in that department or who works people who do that job2) Round 4 of interviewing with more HR people who lacks in depth knowledge about the department and job, which will lead to hiring.3) Round 4 of interviewing with the more HR people and someone from the department who is actually knowledgeable about that job and department, but can't hire anyone without HR in agreement.?Most people I know who have been hired in the past 5+ years have gone through this process at nearly every job they've interviewed for, including my dad who was forced to get a new job in 2010 and again in 2012.?He said he almost didn't get hired because HR didn't like his specific job questions and his technical answers (obviously HR lacks in depth knowledge about the department and job) but the department liked him and his resume.?Hell nearly all the jobs I had to interview for went like this.?This is why actually good for the job people aren't getting hired and why it takes so damn long to get through the process.?Hell the online application process can take between 1 - 3 hours in most cases due to the horrible systems in place.?Why must I submit a resume and other documentation to upload and then fill it all in by hand?What's the point of the upload?Why can't they program the system to convert it and my LinkedIn information into filled out fields (some companies do)?I hate the HR hiring process.?Though to be fair when I interviewed with GM IT it strangely different.?I had to interview in person first with a team of two people > then create an account on their online jobs portal > fill out all the information > submit all the necessary documents including a resume > apply for one of the entry level jobs (which I wasn't qualified for based on their asinine requirements) > wait for next round of interview if HR approved.?I got the interview because the guy manning the booth at the career fair had classes with me, so I got the interview.?I interviewed before applying to a job.?This is how it all works in the Midwest/Great Lakes and from what I hear in the South and East Coast.his is all completely depressing and now I feel like I'll never get a decent job, even though I'm very intelligent, hardworking, honest, etc. All those qualities that people lie about having on job interviews, which are actually true for me. So it's not like I can even mention that stuff, because they assume it's all a lie.?What I'd like to do is just say, "You should hire me because I'm likely smarter, more honest, more talented, and a harder worker than any of the other candidates." However they will not only think I'm full of sh*t, they'll assume that I'm egotistical, even though those things have been true for the types of jobs I apply for. People like me typically have advanced degrees and decent jobs, whereas I have a crappy two-year degree and am applying for jobs that pay little and often require nothing more than a high school diploma and job experience (and I don't usually have the amount that they are requesting).I also have many different skills because I teach myself how to do things. But since most of my skills aren't actually accompanied by degrees or certifications, they don't count. Nobody cares if it isn't on paper. It doesn't matter that I actually can do the job and have more than enough skills, learn quickly, etc. because they don't believe it.If I am not even considered for most jobs I apply for because of my resume, there is next to no chance for me to prove myself in an interview or position.?Yigeren wrote:This is all completely depressing and now I feel like I'll never get a decent job, even though I'm very intelligent, hardworking, honest, etc. All those qualities that people lie about having on job interviews, which are actually true for me. So it's not like I can even mention that stuff, because they assume it's all a lie.?What I'd like to do is just say, "You should hire me because I'm likely smarter, more honest, more talented, and a harder worker than any of the other candidates." However they will not only think I'm full of sh*t, they'll assume that I'm egotistical, even though those things have been true for the types of jobs I apply for. People like me typically have advanced degrees and decent jobs, whereas I have a crappy two-year degree and am applying for jobs that pay little and often require nothing more than a high school diploma and job experience (and I don't usually have the amount that they are requesting).I also have many different skills because I teach myself how to do things. But since most of my skills aren't actually accompanied by degrees or certifications, they don't count. Nobody cares if it isn't on paper. It doesn't matter that I actually can do the job and have more than enough skills, learn quickly, etc. because they don't believe it.If I am not even considered for most jobs I apply for because of my resume, there is next to no chance for me to prove myself in an interview or position.?It's worse to be smart than "un-papered"-- being smart sends warning signals to the other person, basically if you're smarter than they are you're a threat because they don't want those smarts directed at them. I know it's silly and ridiculous, but you have to understand NT's are highly paranoid about their status and will do anything to protect it.redbrick1 wrote:A survey was done on 2,500 resumes and it was found that 56 percent of them lied on their resumes, the examples Fnord gave was clearly cases of that.I've also heard it claimed that up to 70% of recent college graduates aren't proficient in their degree area-- it was a minor point in a PBS documentary about the ongoing "grade inflation" that's been hitting colleges since the turn of the century. As I've always said-- it's not what the piece of paper says, it's what the person actually knows. I don't know how long this country has if businesses keep making hiring decisions based on a candidate's ability to "fit company culture" as opposed to actually knowing how to do their job.[The Job Market Is Fake and Full Of Crap!]I wanted to see what some of you guys thought about some of my analysis here? So I'm going through a little career restructuring and decided to throw my resume out on the general job market, including job boards, emailing recruiters, etc. I have an MBA, 32, with close to 10 years of experience in Commercial Finance. I haven't been on many interviews, but the couple I've been on I have noticed that there seems to be something totally "off".#1.) Alot Of Them Hire On Personal Preference Of Who They Would Drink A Beer With, NOT Who Can Do The Damn JobIt doesn't appear as though your professional competency to do well and perform well in the position even matters, it seems like other CRAP that has?nothing?to do with professional competency is what is driving their "hiring decision" such as the Hiring Manager's own personal preferences of who they want to work with and don't want to work with.- So if the Hiring Manager doesn't like introverted people, and you're introverted, he won't pick you.- If he doesn't like extroverted people, and you're extroverted, he won't pick you.- If he doesn't like black people that much, and you're black, he won't pick you.- If he doesn't like white people that much, and you're white, he won't pick you.- If he doesn't like fat people that much, and you're fat, he won't pick you.- If he doesn't like people over 40, and you're 45, he won't pick you.- If he doesn't like butt-kissers and you seem like you kiss butt, he won't pick you.- If he likes butt-kissers and you seem like you don't kiss butt, he won't pick you.- If he likes people he can bully and boss over, and you seem like the type he can't bully and boss around, he won't pick you.It's this concept of the Hiring Manager wanting to sit down and have a "beer" with you. But the kicker is that who he wants to have a beer with comes down to his sole personal preference, and has nothing to do with professional competency. So if he only wants to drink beer with extroverts and you're not that, he won't pick you.Like I said, I haven't been on many interviews but I'm noticing this trend and I honestly DO NOT like it! It's a waste of someone's time! I'm a business man, a professional, and I'm expecting that just like my clients over the previous 10 years picked me based on having the best "product" in terms of value/quality, I was expecting Hiring Managers to do the same thing!#2.) They Post Public Jobs, But Don't Hire Anybody From The Pile Of People Driving 3 - 4 Hours Out To See ThemOn top of this situation, you also have the inefficiency of the JOB BOARDS. What do I mean?- A job is posted on a job board- 200 people respond to it- Some robot created by some kid in his mother's basement screens the applicants based on keywords to filter the list from 200 to let's say 65- Then some dumb, blonde haired chick who knows absolutely no technical information on the position and can barely even spell the name of the Employer......goes through the list of 65 and decides who to call based on how "pretty" their resume looks.?- Then she calls you, asks a bunch of CANNED HR Elementary questions, then when you ask her technical information on the position to get even a feel for what the HELL it is....she says you have to drive out 3 or 4 hours to speak with the "Manager" and he will answer all of your questions.?- You drive 3 or 4 hours to speak with the "Manager", and you discover that this idiot has about 5 other people waiting in line to speak with him and over the course of this week alone, he's probably interviewed about 20 people. You sit down, thinking you are about to have a business conversation about needs/solutions, markets, and quotas, but instead this idiot goes into more CANNED HR Elementary questions and he can't answer a damn thing about the technical aspects of the job either.....you feel like you are in La La Land!#3.) Solution - Start Your Own BusinessThis is CRAP. The only damn thing you can do today if you are a competent, intelligent, hard-working son of a gun...is start your own damn business!#4.) Job NetworkingOr, if you want to work on W-2, you better build a network of people that can introduce you to guys who can CREATE a position for you within a company, rather than to some guy who creates a generic job description....slaps it on Monster, has 300 people respond...then uses robots and dumb blondes to pick the candidates.Pretty much what I've seen. Hiring is based on nepotism/cronyism first and foremost, followed by shallow personal preferences next, followed by crazy HR garbage profiling and interviewing techniques with merit being a distant last.Interviewers think nothing of wasting candidate's time because they are being paid to give interviews but the interviewees aren't.Lol, your joining the fun too OP??? Looks like I'm getting turned down from my recent interviews too. Everyone has said that they like my interview/questions. I think I'm doing pretty good there, it's just an experience wall or something that I'm hitting.?What I've found is be yourself is the worst advice. Be who they want you to be is how you move on. Those personality questionnaires, answer as they want you to, trying not to sound unrealistic though. They say you should be motivated and have attention to detail, explain that you do and make up an example demonstrating it. IRL I'm pretty bad at attention to detail, but who cares.Why do you want to work for us? Spit out that you think the job sounds amazing, you've always had an interest in it, and you identify with the companies core values, and you've heard from those who've worked there that you know (or pretend that you know in my case) that it's a great company to work for, and that you feel qualified, even if it's all a lie. In 5 years from now, you see yourself in a role that's a little more advanced than the one your applying for.?That's what I just did on my last phone interview an hour ago and she loved it. She said that other interviewees had more experience, but I should apply for some other roles and she thinks I'd be a great fit.... Whatever, apparently I'm not qualified, so I need to butter up my experience more...Networking? It doesn't do any good for me cause my internship people are in a different industry and my college people don't have leads.I definitely can't say #1 is off base. No matter how qualified you may be, they may just cite something about a "fit" and don't have to explain further. Maybe they don't even know themselves what the "fit" is?#2 is a specific type of case, but I think we've all seen something similar in these days of ATS software and layers of HR to get through.I've always been intrigued by #3, but the risk is real. It just might "not work". Take the plunge and sink or swim?#4 can legit work, but is elusive to most. You need to be an extreme people person, know the right person at the right time, or maybe a key decision maker just likes you. I don't know. Those it works for speak as if it is an easy sure thing. Others are just completely befuddled by it.Originally Posted by?mcq?I definitely can't say #1 is off base. No matter how qualified you may be, they may just cite something about a "fit" and don't have to explain further. Maybe they don't even know themselves what the "fit" is?#2 is a specific type of case, but I think we've all seen something similar in these days of ATS software and layers of HR to get through.I've always been intrigued by #3, but the risk is real. It just might "not work". Take the plunge and sink or swim?#4 can legit work, but is elusive to most. You need to be an extreme people person, know the right person at the right time, or maybe a key decision maker just likes you. I don't know. Those it works for speak as if it is an easy sure thing. Others are just completely befuddled by it.Having parents own a small business that they started, I can tell you it's not as easy as so many people make it sound. You get dumped with so much work and responsibility that you don't have as a corporate employee. You are the corporation yourself, and have to deal with all the tax junk and regulation that comes with that. The industry they are in, landscaping is so full of headaches, weather delays, employees quitting or not starting or not getting along, huge risks of hitting a mainline or rolling a tractor, and work that will all bunch up at once and then stall out... Watching them, I'm pretty certain I don't want to get into that. I know they don't like it and they built up such an asset an company base that it's not worth trying to switch. They're stuck.?If I have a great idea, maybe I'll start a business or be an entreprenuer, but I'm not going to go around all day looking for something to be entreprenuerish. It would have to come from inspiration, not desperation.It just seems like a very real possiblity, for someone to go on 100 job interviews and get NO offers. When you really boil it down, the Employers in question have all of the power and they can punk slap you all around during the interview process all they want....with literally stupid questions, stupid procedures and IF you happen to get in, be prepared to deal with STUPID crap on a daily basis.?The reality is that we are dealing with a very difficult time in terms of the job market.?- Technology is taking away jobs.?- Globalization/cheap labor is taking away jobs.?- More people have a bachelor's degree today than ever before, creating more demand for jobs, which causes Employers to have to use robots and dumb blondes to filter candidates in terms of interviews to get in the door. HOWEVER, once you are actually in the door, said Employer is also mindful of said horrible job market so expect to be served crap and have to love it.?The only solution is to take advantage of technology and globalization, and start your own business. Fix your credit and use personal credit lines on those 0% interest for 18 month offers, to fund the start-up business.?The reality is that for MOST OF US going forward, starting your own business is going to be the only option. This entire concept of "not giving up" and just "keep interviewing" is just B.S. The reality is that you can interview for 100, 200 or 300 jobs....and get NO OFFERS....because that's just how SCREWED UP the current job market is.?I feel sorry for these kids coming out of college with $100k in debt. College does absolutely NOTHING to prepare you for the reality of the world and especially the reality of this job market.?I honestly don't think we even have enough quality jobs to supply the huge amount of human capital that we have created.eyota in Michigan said:?I lie. No other way around it. My parents are very committed to me finding work, so if I was able to secure a job, they would drive me to and from until I could purchase or lease my own car. Because of this, I put down that I do have reliable transportation on applications.I understand the reasoning behind him suggesting an unpaid internship. I guess I'm just bitter against them because I've done several and still don't have a job. I've done an internship with the promise of a full-time job after the duration. Never got an offer. I did another where I thought I'd be gaining valuable skills that would make more attractive as an applicant. Although I did add more skills to my resume, the skills did nothing to improve by chances. Employers have told me I don't have enough full-time job experience. They don't care about my part-time, temporary and intern jobs. Unfortunately, these are the only jobs I've had int he past 4 years.Obviously, you are a very savvy person.Kudos to your parents for supporting you. My partner and I do everything to support our kids while we both struggle ourselves. WE ARE ALL THE UNDERDOG!Nothing makes me crazier than parents that don't get it. I suppose they make me extra annoyed because they represent the vast majority of people who are one or two year above long term unemployment, yet they think they are secure. But no one is secure. And these same people, living in la-la land, are making political decisions.Oh wait, one thing does make me crazier --- unpaid internships. I especially hate the ads that say, seeking a college grad fully accomplished in X,Y and Z software. Well. why is it an unpaid internship?We supported my son through one of those internships once and we were ready to help him do more than 6 months. But thank goodness HE put his foot down and said --- guess what, I'm not being paid, I'm not doing this anymore. GOOD FOR HIM.Helps2Blucky in Nassau, New York said:We supported my son through one of those internships once and we were ready to help him do more than 6 months. But thank goodness HE put his foot down and said --- guess what, I'm not being paid, I'm not doing this anymore. GOOD FOR HIM.I agree, good for your son. It's not easy when you realized you're being used. It's painful. I'm glad he decided to leave when he did. I know that some people have had success with unpaid internships, but the majority of people I know (including me) have only increased their debt and depression. I don't know how these companies expect people to live with no paycheck. I'm betting they all assume that the interns will be living at home.The media is seriously downplaying how dire things are becoming. The majority of my friends still live at home, even the ones that have graduated from college. Their parents are struggling to hold onto their jobs as their health worsens. My dad is about to turn 60. He has no retirement money. Nothing. He's still supporting four of us kids. I'm desperate to get a job so that I can support my parents when they can no longer work. There is no way my siblings and I will leave them in poverty after all they've done for us.The scary thing about all this, is that millions of people are experiencing the same things I am. This country is in danger of imploding. The old folks can't afford to retire, so they're holding onto jobs that the young people need. The young people are living off their parents working menial jobs. The parents can't afford to retire because they have their adult children to support! It's a mess.Helps2Blucky in Nassau, New York said:?Oh wait, one thing does make me crazier --- unpaid internships. I especially hate the ads that say, seeking a college grad fully accomplished in X,Y and Z software. Well. why is it an unpaid internship?I worked for a property management firm once and one of the tenants was gloating to my boss that he ran his whole operations with unpaid interns from the local college. I think the only paid employee that he had was his wife.eyota in Michigan said:?The media is seriously downplaying how dire things are becoming. The majority of my friends still live at home, even the ones that have graduated from college. Their parents are struggling to hold onto their jobs as their health worsens. My dad is about to turn 60. He has no retirement money. Nothing. He's still supporting four of us kids. I'm desperate to get a job so that I can support my parents when they can no longer work. There is no way my siblings and I will leave them in poverty after all they've done for us.My sister has a 28 year old and a 23 year old still living at home. Doesn't look like they are going anywhere soon either.eyota in Michigan said:?The media is seriously downplaying how dire things are becoming. The majority of my friends still live at home, even the ones that have graduated from college. Their parents are struggling to hold onto their jobs as their health worsens. My dad is about to turn 60. He has no retirement money. Nothing. He's still supporting four of us kids. I'm desperate to get a job so that I can support my parents when they can no longer work. There is no way my siblings and I will leave them in poverty after all they've done for us.?Just as a counterpoint, I don't think that any of my close friends or my SO's close friends are unemployed and/or live at home. That isn't to say that none of them haven't struggled with it at some point, but it's been a while since any of them started at their current jobs. Now, I'm not saying "your experiences aren't representative, but mine are," or vice versa, but I think that our two sets of experiences show the dangers of relying on a small sample set. If we were to only look at your experience, of course we'd assume the worst. Mine, we'd be asking "what problem?" The truth is clearly somewhere in the middle.Ruby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada said:?My sister has a 28 year old and a 23 year old still living at home. Doesn't look like they are going anywhere soon either.Life is too expensive and unstable. Adult have to comeback and live with someone, isnt that a shame. I never knew (hindsight) that bettering yourself wouldn't make a difference sometimes. It seems banks and education system are nothing but money pits for some.GREED> Why not work a mediocre job with benefits in $ than have to worry about student loans.Riot in Massachusetts said:?Just as a counterpoint, I don't think that any of my close friends or my SO's close friends are unemployed and/or live at home. That isn't to say that none of them haven't struggled with it at some point, but it's been a while since any of them started at their current jobs. Now, I'm not saying "your experiences aren't representative, but mine are," or vice versa, but I think that our two sets of experiences show the dangers of relying on a small sample set. If we were to only look at your experience, of course we'd assume the worst. Mine, we'd be asking "what problem?" The truth is clearly somewhere in the middle.True. Very risky to use your own small circle of influence as a base line. I worked in demographic marketing and one of our largest clients was the US government itself.Riot in Massachusetts said:?Just as a counterpoint, I don't think that any of my close friends or my SO's close friends are unemployed and/or live at home. That isn't to say that none of them haven't struggled with it at some point, but it's been a while since any of them started at their current jobs. Now, I'm not saying "your experiences aren't representative, but mine are," or vice versa, but I think that our two sets of experiences show the dangers of relying on a small sample set. If we were to only look at your experience, of course we'd assume the worst. Mine, we'd be asking "what problem?" The truth is clearly somewhere in the middle.I understand your point. Somewhat. I live in an area with four big universities located within an hours drive distance of each other. My area is saturated with college graduates. The universities are pumping out thousands of graduates every spring and winter. Everyone is fighting for the few jobs that are listed. I probably have it worse in my location than grads in other areas.Please note, I didn't say that my experience is true for everyone. I'm sorry if my comment implied this. I have trouble getting my thoughts across in writing. Please don't assume I am believing the worst about the country just because I've personally faced hardship as a young college graduate. I'm glad to hear your area is doing okay and that the people in your life are obtaining full-time professional jobs.That said, I honestly believe that this is a serious problem that is getting worse day by day. We have too many college graduates with a shortage of jobs available. We also have too many boomers who can't afford to retire. Of course, there's a slew of other problems such as the outsourcing of many blue collar positions. My point is, I do not believe that things will remain at "the middle" for much longer.Things ARE getting worse. I'm not being pessimistic or trying to exaggerate, but the U.S. economy is in troubleRuby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada said:?My sister has a 28 year old and a 23 year old still living at home. Doesn't look like they are going anywhere soon either.That's depressing. I really hope that I'm out of my parents house by 27. I can't bear the thought of still living at home at that age.eyota in Michigan said:?...My area is saturated with college graduates. The universities are pumping out thousands of graduates every spring and winter. Everyone is fighting for the few jobs that are listed. I probably have it worse in my location than grads in other areas....We have too many college graduates with a shortage of jobs available. We also have too many boomers who can't afford to retire. Of course, there's a slew of other problems such as the outsourcing of many blue collar positions... Things ARE getting worse.Agree. Yrs ago normal 4 my peers obtaining BS degrees--primarily in various health fields & law. So, now they r settled in long-time careers. Today many more college grads flooding market, requiring high degrees, excellent grades, stellar qualifications. Cannot be in "norm" anymore 4 decent careers/pay. Must have qualifications most grads don't possess--be "standout." Go tough route w difficult classes (math,science) "rarer" fields, separate from the pack. If that be u & yours, much better outlook&results. Drs always finding work. Help fm professional parents&good connections/networks also big plus 4 u. Friends do "favors."Heard thru friends govt jobs getting "thousands" of applications 4 only 1 job---"10,0000 APPS!" Not like that in times past. Applicants fm ALL states finding positions via websites & applying, relocating, etc. Also 4 "lower" govt positions.Know of "Gates" scholarship recipient. Zero prior work experience--no work as teen. Desired short stint/work B4 off to major university. Hired immediately. Many passed over, no doubt.When&where will it end. Dunno.Ruby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada said:?Neither can your parents.This is exactly what a grown adult forced to live with their parents needs to hear. Thanks for putting salt in my wounds.I am not a leech. I work hard to earn my keep while living at home. I cook, clean, and help my mother run her home business. I'm certain that my parents will be happy when I finally leave - but it won't be because they're tired of me. They want me to succeed and will be happy when I can support myself on my own.eyota in Michigan said:?This is exactly what a grown adult forced to live with their parents needs to hear. Thanks for putting salt in my wounds.I am not a leech. I work hard to earn my keep while living at home. I cook, clean, and help my mother run her home business. I'm certain that my parents will be happy when I finally leave - but it won't be because they're tired of me. They want me to succeed and will be happy when I can support myself on my own.LOL! I should talk. If it makes you feel any better I have a cousin who is 65 and still lives in the same house she was born in. She never left!I've been noticing as of late that a few employers I've phone screened or interviewed with in the past few weeks have been re-posting the job and making it a point to emphasize the fact they want someone experienced or with a minimum of 3-5 years of experience.Talk about wasting my time and other people's time including their own time. Not to mention, the cost involved to re-post the job to begin with.Why not just emphasize experience to begin with?Ruby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada said:?Neither can your parents.Well would they rather their own flesh and blood be homeless? Instead of some parents coping an attitude and wrongfully blaming their kids for something that isn't their fault, they should show a little compassion.Ruby Slippers in Las Vegas, Nevada said:?LOL! I should talk. If it makes you feel any better I have a cousin who is 65 and still lives in the same house she was born in. She never left!I bet that bothers society doesn't it? It gets them all riled up as if it's any of their business that she never left home. I have often heard when you are unhappy with your own life you start meddling in things that are not your business. Seriously it does not bother me one bit about others living at home. It's THEIR business. It's not something I have on my list of things to concern myself with. I have my own life to tend to.still retired in Hawaii said:?Life is too expensive and unstable. Adult have to comeback and live with someone, isnt that a shame....On the other hand, for millenia the pattern was for extended families to live together. One generation would raise the kids, and then the kids would take responsibility. All while everyone lived together. Maybe it's the modern idea of chicks leaving the nest that needs to be re-evaluated.Chicago Suburbnite in Illinois said:?I've been noticing as of late that a few employers I've phone screened or interviewed with in the past few weeks have been re-posting the job and making it a point to emphasize the fact they want someone experienced or with a minimum of 3-5 years of experience.Talk about wasting my time and other people's time including their own time. Not to mention, the cost involved to re-post the job to begin with.Why not just emphasize experience to begin with?Even if they do this, they may be dissatisfied with the applicants they attract. In years past you'd post a job ad or put the word out, and hire the first likely-looking person who showed up. Because they'd learn on the job, right? Now you try to find the person who can already do all the things you need done. But what if they're still not the right one? So you look and look and look, and overlook plenty of people who could do the work if you gave them the chance.But I'm not bitter.AndyRising in a State of Bliss said:?On the other hand, for millenia the pattern was for extended families to live together. One generation would raise the kids, and then the kids would take responsibility. All while everyone lived together. Maybe it's the modern idea of chicks leaving the nest that needs to be re-evaluated.Then again, for millenia a decent number of folks ran off into the desert and mountains to be hermits under the guise of enlightenment and being closer to g(G)od. Chances are they just wanted to get away from their in-laws.AndyRising in a State of Bliss said:?On the other hand, for millenia the pattern was for extended families to live together. One generation would raise the kids, and then the kids would take responsibility. All while everyone lived together. Maybe it's the modern idea of chicks leaving the nest that needs to be re-evaluated.That's a good point. My neighbors from Iran do this. The parents raise the kids, and the kids take over when the parents need to retire. Oftentimes extended family members live under the same roof. My neighbors have the wife's elderly parents living with them. They help raise the children while mom and dad work outside the home. They also have a single cousin and and an uncle that live with them. They've told me that there's a lot of drama, but they love each other and prefer to live together under one roof. They also pass their businesses onto their young. The parents will have the kids work in the shops after school. Once the parents retire, they pass the business onto their children. And then the children pass it on to their children.?I think living like this has a lot of positives. I wouldn't want to live with my siblings or their families, but I wouldn't have a problem moving my parents into my home. I can understand why people wouldn't want to live like this, though. There's not much privacy.Chicago Suburbnite in Illinois said:?I've been noticing as of late that a few employers I've phone screened or interviewed with in the past few weeks have been re-posting the job and making it a point to emphasize the fact they want someone experienced or with a minimum of 3-5 years of experience.Talk about wasting my time and other people's time including their own time. Not to mention, the cost involved to re-post the job to begin with.Why not just emphasize experience to begin with?What bothers me the most is employers that list a job when they already have someone in mind that they will give the job to. I know that the government requires most places to advertise their jobs to the public, but what ticks me off is that they won't even consider the outside applicants. They'll interview and drag them along but will ultimately hire the manager's niece. It's so frustrating. They are just wasting people's time and money. I've been to several interviews where I realized immediately upon sitting down that I would not be considered for the job. I can tell when interviewers have no interest in me whatsoever. They rush through the interview, don't make much eye contact, and often ask ridiculous questions that they know will make me stumble.his is what I have noticed in regards to the current job market:1- There is a serious lack of professionalism on both ends- job seekers and employers. Case in point:?A) I recently attended a job fair where the invitation clearly stated to "bring several copies of your resume and dress professionally". I was shocked to see that in a roomful of candidates I was the only one in a suit.?B) I have gotten several e-mails from prospective employers indicating they wish to interview me and requesting my salary requirement. From CIOs to Directors, to IT Managers, once I send over the requested information, there is radio silence. Am I the only one who expects at least a "thanks but no thanks" courtesy e-mail if my salary expectation is too high?!2- No wonder businesses are failing; Everyone wants to drive a Mercedes for the price of a Ford. Two years ago, I was making $85/hr as a Health IT consultant. Now, even with an asking hourly rate of $60/hr and 10 years experience, I cannot find a job. I have even started applying for permanent opportunities with an asking salary of $60,000 (well below what someone with my skills and experience should be making) yet I am being disqualified being of ridiculous job requirements.3- You get what you pay for- I have noticed that the same jobs are being reposted within 3 to 6 months. The reasons in my opinion are: First, it's because they are hiring someone who looks good on paper rather than someone who is actually qualified. Second, they are hiring people who will accept any offer until something better comes along, and last, someone accepts the position with the intention to stay, but soon realizes that they were misled about the position (happened to me).I really hope employers wise up soon. They are breeding a workforce of uninvested employees, then cry when their business suffers.AndyRising in a State of Bliss said:?Even if they do this, they may be dissatisfied with the applicants they attract. In years past you'd post a job ad or put the word out, and hire the first likely-looking person who showed up. Because they'd learn on the job, right? Now you try to find the person who can already do all the things you need done. But what if they're still not the right one? So you look and look and look, and overlook plenty of people who could do the work if you gave them the chance.But I'm not bitter.Totally agree with you. I am noticing the same thing.John in MD in Catonsville, Maryland said:?For Ruby Slippers: please note the menu item on the left just above the center bottom picture. A bit pricy, but has made the menu....a/MhQe5You'd think it would be cheaper, what with the industrial and post industrial population boom and all.AndyRising in a State of Bliss said:?But I'm not bitter.I'm trying not to be bitter about it either.But some of these employers go for months and months without the extra help or replacing whomever vacated the job and most of the time they make it sound as if they need someone in there right away.I don't get it.qualifiedyetunemployed in Tampa, Florida said:?1- There is a serious lack of professionalism on both ends- job seekers and employers. Case in point: A) I recently attended a job fair where the invitation clearly stated to "bring several copies of your resume and dress professionally". I was shocked to see that in a roomful of candidates I was the only one in a suit.I've noticed this as well when attending group interviews and job fairs. People showing up very casually dressed as if they're going to the beach, picnicking, a family reunion, birthday party, baby shower, etc... . They're in tight fitting clothing, wearing scarves (the women), in jeans, wearing sandals, in flip flops, etc... . I'm usually the only one dressed up or, in the very least, the minority.I've only had one employer comment multiple times about how I was dressed way more professionally than the other candidates and how he not only liked that but appreciated it. I was, after 2 interviews, offered the job mostly because of how I dressed and presented myself but ultimately turned the offer down for a myriad of good reasons.Seriously, what gives with these people? Don't the really it's better to overdress than under dress?The only time I dress down and casually for an interview is if I'm told to. If the employer doesn't tell me, then I assume otherwise and dress up.qualifiedyetunemployed in Tampa, Florida said:?2- No wonder businesses are failing; Everyone wants to drive a Mercedes for the price of a Ford. Two years ago, I was making $85/hr as a Health IT consultant. Now, even with an asking hourly rate of $60/hr and 10 years experience, I cannot find a job. I have even started applying for permanent opportunities with an asking salary of $60,000 (well below what someone with my skills and experience should be making) yet I am being disqualified being of ridiculous job requirements.My one uncle was in IT. He worked for BMO Harris. Shortly after the 2007 recession, he and his co-workers were notified they were being laid off and the jobs were moving to Canada. They wanted Canadians to do their jobs. Unfortunately, because my uncle was really good at his job, he was the one chosen to fly to Canada and train the Canadians to do the job he and his co-workers were doing.My uncle received a good severance package and had to go on unemployment after the lay off. He, and many of his co-workers, tried hard to stay in IT, but it just wasn't meant to be and they ended up taking whatever jobs they could get. One of my uncle's co-workers took a $9/HR job doing overnight stocking at Target. My uncle does math tutoring and test prep for Huntington Learning Center making $12/HR. When my uncle was laid off, he was making around $75K. Talk about a huge drop in pay. One of the problems he and his co-workers faced in taking any job was their education. Many employers just didn't want to take a chance on someone that educated who used to make that much money. My uncle tried getting a front desk position with the Navy Lodge on the Navy Base, but the manager didn't want to hire him because he was afraid my uncle would eventually take his job and all my uncle and many of his co-workers wanted to do was work and make money so they could continue paying their bills, paying down their debt, etc...?In his early days of IT, my uncle would ask many of his co-workers who were married and had kids if they were pushing their kids into IT or if their kids would follow in their footsteps by going into IT. They all said no because they knew the direction was IT was headed in. If the jobs weren’t leaving the country, they were bringing in all these Indians, Middle Easterners and Asians on work visas to do the work. So no, they didn’t want their kids going into IT knowing what they’d be facing later on down the road.qualifiedyetunemployed in Tampa, Florida said:?3- You get what you pay for- I have noticed that the same jobs are being reposted within 3 to 6 months. The reasons in my opinion are: First, it's because they are hiring someone who looks good on paper rather than someone who is actually qualified. Second, they are hiring people who will accept any offer until something better comes along, and last, someone accepts the position with the intention to stay, but soon realizes that they were misled about the position (happened to me).Same here. I've also noticed some of these employers go for months and months without the extra help or replacing whomever vacated the job and most of the time they make it sound as if they need someone in there right away.That said, I think you hit the nail on the head as to why this is happening.qualifiedyetunemployed in Tampa, Florida said:?I really hope employers wise up soon. They are breeding a workforce of uninvested employees, then cry when their business suffers.Agreed.qualifiedyetunemployed in Tampa, Florida said:2- No wonder businesses are failing; Everyone wants to drive a Mercedes for the price of a Ford. Two years ago, I was making $85/hr as a Health IT consultant. Now, even with an asking hourly rate of $60/hr and 10 years experience, I cannot find a job. I have even started applying for permanent opportunities with an asking salary of $60,000 (well below what someone with my skills and experience should be making) yet I am being disqualified being of ridiculous job requirements.85 dollars an hour? You were rolling. I could never make that much money. I am just trying to find a minimum wage job. I am not picky at all about the salary in fact they could pay me a little less than minimum wage. But no because I am inexperienced on paper (on paper and willing to learn!!!) I am pushed to work for free. Sorry but volunteering doesn't get me to where I need to go. I need to make money to feel good about myself.?I know I'm selective about where I am working but I try to settle for maybe a job at the craft store since I am creative...no interviewer suggests volunteering when calling me for rejection.?I think that's what it is. When people like you are not getting hired for the higher up jobs you are going to compete with us bottom feeders and then that equals more work for the employers too. Someone needs to do something about this. Keep the big people with the big companies and the small people with the small company jobs then everyone wins even including me.Chicago Suburbnite in Illinois said:?I'm trying not to be bitter about it either.But some of these employers go for months and months without the extra help or replacing whomever vacated the job and most of the time they make it sound as if they need someone in there right away.I don't get it.What the employer is most likely doing is delegating those responsibilities to one or more employees for as long as they can to save money. Once those employee become disgruntled or put in their notice, that is when the employer becomes serious about hiring a candidate. Employers today are willing to save $2.00 today even it means losing $10.00 tomorrow. Not sure where these people got their management training, but it's terrible business practice and very demoralizing for existing employees.Sabsfan in Frederick, Maryland said:?85 dollars an hour? You were rolling. I could never make that much money. I am just trying to find a minimum wage job. I am not picky at all about the salary in fact they could pay me a little less than minimum wage. But no because I am inexperienced on paper (on paper and willing to learn!!!) I am pushed to work for free. Sorry but volunteering doesn't get me to where I need to go. I need to make money to feel good about myself.?I know I'm selective about where I am working but I try to settle for maybe a job at the craft store since I am creative...no interviewer suggests volunteering when calling me for rejection.?I think that's what it is. When people like you are not getting hired for the higher up jobs you are going to compete with us bottom feeders and then that equals more work for the employers too. Someone needs to do something about this. Keep the big people with the big companies and the small people with the small company jobs then everyone wins even including me.It is unfortunate that you are in the same position as I am. I think one of the biggest problems in the job postings I have been seeing is that they are unrealistic. For instance, most of the positions I would qualify for, now require either a Bachelor in Computer Science (I have a Master Degree, but my degrees are in business), or for me to be a Nurse or Pharmacist. In other words, they would hire a Nurse or Pharmacist with 2 years Health IT experience and think they can do what I have been doing for over a decade, as well as I can.qualifiedyetunemployed in Tampa, Florida said:?It is unfortunate that you are in the same position as I am. I think one of the biggest problems in the job postings I have been seeing is that they are unrealistic. For instance, most of the positions I would qualify for, now require either a Bachelor in Computer Science (I have a Master Degree, but my degrees are in business), or for me to be a Nurse or Pharmacist. In other words, they would hire a Nurse or Pharmacist with 2 years Health IT experience and think they can do what I have been doing for over a decade, as well as I can.I wish I was good at more things because IT is definitely tricky. You have to get the proper certs to be considered and even then you may still need the job history in addition to that.?Now I only have an associate's but I mean that should be okay for just starting out in my field. I just want to get started. I am told I can freelance but that's too independent. I work better with a boss.So I've thought about animals since that is my other passion and doesn't really require the work history but no luck there either so far. I tried to tell the pet store about my dog and how I've "whipped" him into shape..he's one of the most stubborn dogs you will ever see but no they don't care. I understand that sometimes you may need to see it for yourself but okay if that is the case why aren't places doing working interviews??I know I can do the job esp since they always train new employees but it doesn't matter because I suck at interviews or looking good on paper.[Are staffing agencies only for bad employers?]Ok, so I have been using a pretty popular staffing agency here...The first job that they wanted to send me on, had a Yelp rating of 1 and a google rating of 1.9. I didn't even think that was even possible for a business.?I declined that offer and just today I got another position for a medical data entry clerk. Sounds fine, but again, I checked the reviews at glass door and it was 1.9 with reviews such as, "Run, run as far away as you can" and "Don't hurt your career by working here!"I won't lie, it has kinda spooked me, but I really need the job. So are temp agencies only for bottom of the barrel employers? It is starting to kind of seem like it to me.All types of employers use staffing agencies. I have done so, and the company I worked for had generally good reviews.?If you are just starting with an agency, you cannot afford to turn down too many assignments. You will get a reputation of refusing jobs, and the agency will simply stop asking you to go to placements.?As a temp, I wouldn't worry too much about company rep. You will most likely only be there for a few weeks. If it is truly terrible, you can walk away, although once again it will impact your reputation with the staffing agency.The IHS uses staffing agencies, I met a few travel workers who went to military bases to work on the hospital there. You saying the fed is a bad employer to work for?Staffing agencies are great imo. They pay for travel and housing, provide benefits like insurance and 401k when under contract. And it is a great way to see the country. The straight pay was par for local workers too so they didn't rip you off so much that they charged the employer more.They don't really send you somewhere, they have a site with locations and you pick where you want to go.No...plenty of fortune 100 or "good" companies also use staffing agencies.The offers you are referring to is job offer or invitation to interview?If you are not doing anything now, why don't you give it a try. You can always walk away with work experience if you don't like that employer.I work for a state agency and my unit usually has at least 1-2 people in HQ hired through a staffing agency. Depending on our needs it can be as many as 10 people at once, which is why we go with the staffing company route instead of hiring permanently. It also gives us the opportunity to let people go easily who cannot do the job, which is extremely challenging once you are a permanent state employee. Even if you are in the non-benefit class, it's so hard to get approval to hire anyone that having the option to try someone out first is invaluable.?I know other state agency HQs use another staffing agency, but my understanding is that is a tier below the one my unit uses in terms of job quality/pay. I think most placements with that agency pay at least $2 less.In general I find staffing angencies and their clients both to be sleazebags. The companies that use them don't value their workers and that typically also comes through in the work environment in terms of poor treatment and poor morale. I personally would never even engage with a staffing agency unless I was at the absolute end of my employment rope but agencies really only want to work with people with better options who have no reason to have to play with them.Also they call all of the jobs "temp to hire" when only 27% actually are. That there tells me it is bait and switch fraud right from the start.Originally Posted by?fishbrains?All types of employers use staffing agencies. I have done so, and the company I worked for had generally good reviews.^^ This.I obtained employment with my current employer by going through a staffing agency.It was advertised as a temp-to-hire position, but after the interview, they offered to direct hire me. Seven years and a promotion later, I'm still here and still loving it.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?Also they call all of the jobs "temp to hire" when only 27% actually are. That there tells me it is bait and switch fraud right from the start.Quote:Originally Posted by?HokieFan?^^ This.I obtained employment with my current employer by going through a staffing agency.It was advertised as a temp-to-hire position, but after the interview, they offered to direct hire me. Seven years and a promotion later, I'm still here and still loving it.I never advertised as temp-to-hire. The vast majority of positions I filled via agency were short term seasonal need. One or two people did eventually land FT positions with my company, but that means that several hundred, perhaps a few thousand, did not.Originally Posted by?fishbrains?I never advertised as temp-to-hire. The vast majority of positions I filled via agency were short term seasonal need. One or two people did eventually land FT positions with my company, but that means that several hundred, perhaps a few thousand, did not.Then your company is a traditional user of staffing labor. Short term needs. Such users are becoming a minority though. More companies are using staffing agencies for long term needs because they don't want to hire and give benefits to, or have to declare as headcount... It is like a guy that wants to shack up with a girl and keeps telling her he'll marry her but never does nor had any intention of doing so.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?Also they call all of the jobs "temp to hire" when only 27% actually are. That there tells me it is bait and switch fraud right from the start.That only means the employer has the OPTION of hiring for a perm position. They are not obligated to hire anyone and you should not assume that accepting a temp position is in reality a probationary perm assignment. You still have to APPLY for a fulltime position. The temp agency just cannot prohibit you from doing so and pulling a "non-compete" card if you attempt to convert.Originally Posted by?fishbrains?I never advertised as temp-to-hire. The vast majority of positions I filled via agency were short term seasonal need. One or two people did eventually land FT positions with my company, but that means that several hundred, perhaps a few thousand, did not.If people are brought on with the expectation that they are seasonal/cyclical, fine. Most of the complaints those of us on here have with staffing agencies is that they often bring in people under the guise of contract to hire when the job is really permatemping.And that they are using temps to replace direct full time workers as a way to strip workers of rights.Originally Posted by?MSchemist80?Then your company is a traditional user of staffing labor. Short term needs. Such users are becoming a minority though. More companies are using staffing agencies for long term needs because they don't want to hire and give benefits to, or have to declare as headcount... It is like a guy that wants to shack up with a girl and keeps telling her he'll marry her but never does nor had any intention of doing so.Quote:Originally Posted by?Serious Conversation?If people are brought on with the expectation that they are seasonal/cyclical, fine. Most of the complaints those of us on here have with staffing agencies is that they often bring in people under the guise of contract to hire when the job is really panies use temp agencies to reduce costs in screening employees and reduce headaches when they decide to let them go.?I'm not surprised that only about 25% even get hired on permanent. Most employers only want the cream of the crop and this helps them sift through to get them.Noone who is cream of the crop is going to want anything to do with a staffing agency. They can only attract the desperate. Even if they manage by some miracle to get somone who is cream of the crop you can be assured that worker will get poached very quickly from you.?The only thing staffing agencies are good for is obtaining disposable, disengaged workers, who are only there for a paycheck and have no reason to give an F about the company and you will pay a high premium to the agency for them. The cream of the crop will go to your competitor who hires them directly with competitive pay and benefits.I also feel that the staffing agencies and the big companies are sleazebags. I worked as a temp for a company where in I was paid @ GBP 9 per hour whereas other temps at the same position were being paid anything between 8-12 per hour.Later on I came to know that the company was actually paying @ GBP 14. When I approached HR directly and showed my willingness to work at GBP 12 the straight response was that we do not hire temps directly, you have to come through agency.Originally Posted by?dvatsa?the straight response was that we do not hire temps directly, you have to come through agency.That goes back to skirting employer laws. That worker isn't our worker, he is an employee of the temp agency. If the company employed the worker directly even as a temp that would be the company's worker and they would be responsible for payroll, meeting employer regulations etc.Originally Posted by?dvatsa?I also feel that the staffing agencies and the big companies are sleazebags. I worked as a temp for a company where in I was paid @ GBP 9 per hour whereas other temps at the same position were being paid anything between 8-12 per hour.Later on I came to know that the company was actually paying @ GBP 14. When I approached HR directly and showed my willingness to work at GBP 12 the straight response was that we do not hire temps directly, you have to come through agency.My first employer out of college hired all staff as full-time employees when I hired in 2010. Five years later, all staff were hired as W-2, no benefit temps. The temps were rarely hired on as an FTE. Pay rates varied considerably between the vendors.[Frustrated Job Seekers Rant]realism37 in Georgia said:?Further the "advice givers with their own problems" have told to me try other areas of work. I have done so and still no bites. Transferable skills don't seem to matter now.Prior to the 5 months I spent in the dental office, I had worked for 2 months at the office of an internist. The doctor ended up canning me for a nurse when the hospital he was affiliated with told its affiliates they needed to have a nurse in their practice. I was, of course, devastated. I ended up filing for unemployment the same day he let me go and the very next day, I began my job search. I wanted to work for a dentist, but all the job ads I came across said they wanted someone with dental or dental office experience. When I managed to get an interview, I tried hard to convince interviewers that working as a receptionist in a doctor's office was no different than working in a dental office. While the lingo may be different, it was nothing I couldn't learn. Yet no matter how hard I tried, I had a terrible time breaking into dental. I finally got lucky when a large dental chain was hiring a receptionist at one of 2 of their lake county locations. To them, dental or dental office experience didn't matter because they were simply going to be training whomever they hired. Everyone ever hired to do office/clerical work was trained anyway. They had to learn how to use DenTech, how they operated chain wide and what the companies various policies and procedures were. This was 4 years ago.I hate to say it, but not much has really changed. Even when it comes to non-paralegal work, such as legal receptionist, legal secretary, legal billing, etc..., all the job ads basically tell you they want law office or legal experience. Forget the fact you bring a year, year and a half or 2 years even of reception, secretarial or billing work from some other industry or industries.This is because many of the positions also want you to do other things outside the prevue such as e-file, dictation, draft and edit pleadings, indexing, docketing, etc... . Usually, these things are tasked to legal assistants and paralegals because they're the ones typically used for billing where client work is concerned. However, my guess is they may be trying to save money by tasking those things to the receptionist or secretary as opposed to hiring a legal assistant or paralegal.realism37 in Georgia said:?It seems like getting even basic clerical jobs are hard. I have applied to many as well. I have had a few interviews, but no hires. Many of them right here in my own area.Unfortunately, clerical people are a dime a dozen so that doesn't help. There are also people willing to do the work for $9, $10, $11 an hour because they can get away with working and requiring so little. That doesn't help either. But yeah, clerical jobs are becoming increasingly harder to get. I'm actually starting to come across ads for clerical jobs in which experience matters and like most paralegal ads, they're usually looking for someone with a minimum of 2 or 3 years and a maximum of 7 or 9 years.realism37 in Georgia said:?It seems like getting even basic clerical jobs are hard. I have applied to many as well. I have had a few interviews, but no hires. Many of them right here in my own area.I also forgot to add that like the legal field, career field and industry also seem to matter these days.If you're trying to get a receptionist or administrative assistant position in real estate, then they want you to have real estate experience. If you're trying to get a receptionist or administrative assistant position in insurance, then they want you to have insurance experience. If you're trying to get a receptionist or administrative assistant position landscaping, then they want you to have landscaping experience. Etc...?Chicago Suburbnite in Illinois said:?However, my guess is they may be trying to save money by tasking those things to the receptionist or secretary as opposed to hiring a legal assistant or paralegal.This has been my experience. I know all places are not like this, but at my current job it is. It's why I loath being a receptionist and desperately want OUT of these ultra s&itty positions. Not only do you get stuck with extra work but you're constantly pigeon holed. If you work as a receptionist in a doctors office, then you can ONLY ever work as a receptionist in a doctors office. Why should a receptionist be doing legal assistant work?I know there are things about each company you have to learn, but answering phones and greeting guests is the same everywhere. This attitude that if you answer phones for a real estate law firm you can't answer them for a divorce law firm is stupid.realism37 in Georgia said:?I wonder who ended up with those jobs, Chicago? You seem to be well articulate here on these forums. I can't imagine why they wouldn't hire you. It seems like getting even basic clerical jobs are hard. I have applied to many as well. I have had a few interviews, but no hires. Many of them right here in my own area.Further the "advice givers with their own problems" have told to me try other areas of work. I have done so and still no bites. Transferable skills don't seem to matter now.You summed it up correctly realsim37: Transferable skills are worth nothing in this job market!shingami in Chicago, Illinois said:?This has been my experience. I know all places are not like this, but at my current job it is. It's why I loath being a receptionist and desperately want OUT of these ultra s&itty positions. Not only do you get stuck with extra work but you're constantly pigeon holed. If you work as a receptionist in a doctors office, then you can ONLY ever work as a receptionist in a doctors office. Why should a receptionist be doing legal assistant work?I know there are things about each company you have to learn, but answering phones and greeting guests is the same everywhere. This attitude that if you answer phones for a real estate law firm you can't answer them for a divorce law firm is stupid.I'm running into the same problem. I've worked two temporary jobs as a admin assistant at a university. I've been applying non-stop to admin jobs at two hospitals nearby. They don't want me because I don't have a health background. Yet, everything listed in their ads I'm capable of doing! You don't need to have worked in a specific field in order to answer phones, make appointments, file paperwork, communicate with customers, clean the office...etc. These skills are not field specific. Plus, why do you need 4-5 years experience to do the things I listed? I mastered those skills in a year, yet I can't get a job because I haven't worked long enough. It's so ridiculous.I'm ready to leave this state, nothing but dead ends here. I know Michigan isn't the only state that's struggling, but I'm willing to take a chance somewhere else. I'm also considering maxing out my credit cards or taking out a loan to attend trade school in an in-demand field. Problem is, not too many people want to hire a female electrician, welder, plumber, or construction worker. And I'm not very big, I'm 5'3. I'm not sure if I'll be accepted into a trade school that requires you to lift heavy objects. I don't want to enroll in a program and find out later that it was a waste of money and time. I'm confused and stuck, not sure how to proceed right now. Oh how I wish a door would open up before I lose my mind.eyota in Michigan said:?I'm running into the same problem. I've worked two temporary jobs as a admin assistant at a university. I've been applying non-stop to admin jobs at two hospitals nearby. They don't want me because I don't have a health background. It's so ridiculous.Getting hired into a hospital is very difficult unless you have a license, a certification or are in an internship. One way and its a long shot is to volunteer. Hospitals have huge contingent staffs of volunteers but many of them remain volunteers.Here in Las Vegas, there are several hospitals but they are all owned by the same parent corporation and they have one HR for all of them. I tried too.qualifiedyetunemployed in Tampa, Florida said:?You summed it up correctly realsim37: Transferable skills are worth nothing in this job market!Yes, this is unfortunately the case because there are so many people applying for jobs. I work at a large, well-funded healthcare oversight organization and we're hiring for an admin/secy position that comes with a lot of complex job duties. Unlike a lot of employers we're actually offering a very good salary because we need someone talented.In two days we've received 50 applications, of which 15 meet our minimal qualifications. Of those 15, around 7 meet our preferred qualifications, and of those seven around 3 have substantial experience doing admin/secy work in healthcare settings. And that's only after two days of advertising -- the posting is up for 12 more days!So, in the end, one person will get this job. And that person will be someone with a lot of experience doing this work in this field. And a couple of hundred people will be rejected, including many who are qualified and even strongly qualified.I'm the point person for all the applications (not my job, but we're stretched so I'm taking it on) and it breaks my heart to read all the cover letters and resumes, knowing that most will never even pass my desk to the next stage. I don't get how HR people can do this all day every day.Duck! in New York, New York said:?Yes, this is unfortunately the case because there are so many people applying for jobs.I work at a Sports Arena. Last year we had ONE opening for a part time/box office cashier: no benefits and $9.00 an hour. We had over 300 applications that ran the entire spectrum of education and experience.Their preferred candidate is young and with open availability but they will never admit to it.Last night, I worked a game and the cheapest seats were $175.00! Guess some people are just lucky.I'm right there with you.Just want to share a bit about the devaluation of degrees as they saturate the market... I interviewed this week for a post at a West Coast university. The degree coordinate woman in the department I hoped to work in generously spent a lot of time with me, so I emailed her after my interview to thank her for her time and help. Today she emailed me back. At the bottom of the email, next to her name, are the letters "PhD." This woman must be in her late thirties/early forties (far too young for retirement). She has a PhD, but she's a program "coordinator"? Am I the only one who finds that perverse? It's possible someone with her credentials might, near retirement, choose to remain around the university in a fun, low-responsibility capacity, but working 60-hours a week on salary recruiting students and faculty?This is what's happening in our country. First *they* threaten you: either you pay as much money as we want to charge you for these degrees/certificates, or you can die because no one will hire you otherwise. Then, after the extortion has worked and you've invested an obscene amount--through loans, likely, since few average citizens have tuition-sized nest eggs, they have the audacity to tell you your degrees are worthless because everyone has degrees. To add insult to injury, the jobs that are available are largely service-oriented and pay what would have been difficult to survive on BEFORE adding in the time/cost of university.Why aren't more US citizens irate and demanding--not begging for--a massive change?[Depressed at not finding good job after graduating.]I graduated with a BA in teaching a year ago and have yet to find anything good. I am currently working at wal mart for crying out loud! I have several thousands in student loans and find myself paying almost all of my paycheck to it. I don't ever have any extra money for anything else and I feel so depressed I often don't know what to do.?At this point I would rather never have gone to the money drain known as school and just worked what I am doing now, at least I wouldn't have had stupid loans to greedy people that way over charge for what you are getting and spend what money I do get on myself.?I hate all of this and have even considered not paying anymore of my loans and working under the table as I know someone that can get me a job doing it. I know, I know it may be considered unethical but it is hardly anywhere near as unethical as what the people in charge do. And since they are unwilling to make smart decisions on how to better help college graduates on finding jobs and making school actually affordable why should I be willing to go along with a system designed to guck me over made by complete morons?You're still a new graduate, only having been out of school for one year. Most people do not fall into their career with their first job after college. It often takes a few jobs before getting a decent job in your field.?Keep looking and applying and take whatever you can find in education, including internships and teacher-training programs given by your department of education. If your area doesn't have that many schools, then you may have to move.?Where do you live? If you are interested, I can send you info about a good teacher-training & certification program in my area. You get placed in a school as a provisional teacher, and get mentored by experienced educators until you earn your certification. The certification allows you to seek and get employment as a teacher.Originally Posted by?neko_mimi?It's funny.?You decided to waste thousands of dollars on a BA in teaching, and now you blame your problems on the college and the loan providers.Banks just provide loans to people who request them. Colleges just teach the material that you demand. Finding a job is your responsibility. You need to stop blaming others, take responsibility, and repay the money that you agreed to pay back when you accepted the loans.This is a little harsh don't you think? What were her options if she couldnt afford to attend college without the loans? Settle for working for minimum wage at McDonalds and never land a degree that would make her somewhat competitive in the workforce?I don't think she is blaming others but it is quite obvious that there simply arent enough positions to support everyone graduating with a bachelors these days.Schools should be more upfront about what degrees are actually marketable, and are likely to land one into a decent paying position. I realize most colleges are now businesses, so unfortunately its up to the student to figure out what those highpaying fields are , and pursue those instead.When I was growing up, the typical gigs for a teenager are lawn mowing and snow removal. Today most people oft for pro services that hire illegals or immigrants to do the work. More reasons that young people today are disenfranchised because they get turned down easily for even small work.I hired a teenager to tutor my kids for the summer instead of sending to summer school and I plan to do it this summer.Originally Posted by?vision33r?When I was growing up, the typical gigs for a teenager are lawn mowing and snow removal.Yup, this and being a paperboy is how I made money.Sadly these avenues are all but gone.Originally Posted by?timberline742?Yup, this and being a paperboy is how I made money.Sadly these avenues are all but gone.I myself was a paperboy. Was great esp in the warm weather months. Exercise and seeing the sunrise, weird and often even generous customers. We also would roam the neighborhood with shovels freeing stuck cars and clearing driveways. The money was great. We helped people and partied afterwards with pizza, junk food, occasional beers etc. Good times.Originally Posted by?TamaraSavannah?Well, that they existed, that I have already been using them for a year, wasn't the main reason. After all, I pay my lawn service $80 when they come over. These kids could have saved me a lot, right?The basic thing was that there is no way I would hire such a visible unsafe situation. To me, if you are going to push a lawnmower, you do so with your hands level with your waist.....and that just wasn't there with these lads.?When it comes to dangerous equipment, I deal with adults, not children.I would trust landscaping children more than an established company. I started cutting grass at age 12 around the neighborhood. My god - it's easy to use a push mower! What is so unsafe about it? I had an elderly neighbor that used to push his power lawnmower around with his electric wheel chair! He loved it!Not only that, but the established landscaping companies are often a rip off. $80 for 10 minutes of cutting your lawn with their gigantic riding mower. They leave the cut so high so that they can try to convince you to have them cut weekly. No care when cutting, run over everything in their path, won't bother to get out of their riding mower to move anything - sticks, rocks, and other items flying everywhere. Meanwhile they do a slip shod job weedwhacking around the property in 2 minutes.?I do my own landscaping now, but when I did hire I always used teens or college kids and they did a 100 times better job and much cheaper too.Originally Posted by?the_grimace?I would trust landscaping children more than an established company. I started cutting grass at age 12 around the neighborhood. My god - it's easy to use a push mower! What is so unsafe about it?I also LOLed when the OP described the lawnmower as "dangerous equipment." Criticize these kids all you want, at least they're actually doing something useful for folks like the OP who I bet doesn't even know how to start a lawnmower.I'm with you on some of these established landscaping companies, many of them truly do a half ass job.I have never been much of an entrepreneurial type, though I've had good business sense and ideas. Problem was, my dad owned a business and I saw his struggles. Working 60-80 hour weeks for nothing more than the privilege of being his own boss. He didn't even like his work and maybe only paid himself 45k a year. I saw business owners (and still do) in similar situations, working ridiculously hard for very little gain. Work as a business owner became your life. I always felt strongly as a kid and young adult that I just wanted to work for a big company, do my work well, and everything would fall into place.?I'm 28. I've been working professionally for six years now. Every year it gets worse.... In fact, I think my first year was the best since I worked for a cool tech company for a year before getting laid off. Since then though, it's all been downhill. I've been appalled by the corruptness and just plain ****ty practices at most companies. It is an absolute rarity to find a company worth working for these days. I've seen employers gain near unlimited power and control, and most employees are treated as disposable and worthless. Positions are being combined, wages going down, benefits and pensions are disappearing, work is being off-shored, and very few jobs offer even a shred of stability of these days. Working for an employer is just NOT the picture perfect utopia I imagined it would be!?Just in my short six years, I've witnessed and encountered:- nepotism/favoritism (preference towards "friends" rather than skills and qualifications)- embezzlement/fraud by managers/officers- violence/sexual harassment in the workplace- corrupt/unethical business practices and managers- seen people thrown under the bus for stuff they didn't do (happened to me once too!)- people fired for literally no reason, or frequent layoffs- the emergence of permatemp and contract jobs (low pay and no benefits with a "promise" of permanent employment that never happens)- Management directly lying to employees, misleading them, using them.- RIDICULOUS hiring practices- abusive bosses. Employees treated like garbage.?Really the list could go on and on.... All that matters to a lot of these companies is the bottom line and filling the pockets of the top dogs as deep as they can. Employees of today are just getting all stepped over and no one is stopping anything. I honestly almost feel like going into a trade because unions (while ridiculous sometimes) are at least garnering some respect for employees. All and all, it's harder than ever to get hired, no job is stable, wages/benefits are going down, and employers will step all over their employees.... What's even the point anymore?All this being said, I'm highly reconsidering my stance on starting my own business. I'm very nervous about it and not sure what I would even do... I also am not fond of potentially working 60-80 hour weeks. Not only that, but they say 4/5 businesses fail in the first year, and another 4/5 fail in five years, That leaves us, what, a 4% chance of long term success? Definitely scary. But six years in the corporate world and I don't think I can stand another year with the way employment is trending. I think I now understand why my dad worked so hard and long just for the privilege of being his own boss.... Unless you are one of the lucky people who can get in with one of those very rare good companies (and even then nothing is guaranteed), it is simply not worth the struggle of being in such a rat race.?Anyone here start their own business because they were sick of trying to work for an employer? What helped you get things off the ground? How did you handle things like health insurance or retirement savings? Are you happier now with your own business? Thanks for any of your responses!Originally Posted by?andywire?As an employee, I cannot be forced to work more hours than I desire. So, I just work 40 hours and go home. The incentive for me to start a business is near zero, since my objective is not to spend more time working/at work.Being an employee sucks for many reasons, but being a business owner sucks for many other reasons.This would definitely get you terminated at some of the big companies I worked at where putting in 50-60 hours per week WAS EXPECTED. You'd be seen as not a "team player" and promptly let go. Wouldn't even matter if all your work was getting done, that's the saddest part.Quote:Originally Posted by?Pitt Chick?The scariest part is that you have NO idea what you would do.And remember...?long hours (not potentially, but definitely)probably NO vacationsyou pay your SSyou pay your medicalyou deal with all the customers, all the complaints, all the hasslesyou do all the promotions, networking, advertisingI have some ideas. I used to work in design, and now work in accounting/finance, so freelance design or maybe starting a small accounting/finance firm are two possible ideas. I've always been interested in the food industry too, either starting a restaurant/bakery, or perhaps even manufacturing a new food product, but both are extremely risky. I've wanted to write too, (author books), but just haven't been able to find the time.Originally Posted by?the_grimace?This would definitely get you terminated at some of the big companies I worked at where putting in 50-60 hours per week WAS EXPECTED. You'd be seen as not a "team player" and promptly let go. Wouldn't even matter if all your work was getting done, that's the saddest part.Find companies that are not run by stupid people. If that kind of workload is expected, chances are the people running the business are slave drivers, or have no clue what they are doing.The US economy stinks and here's more proof it's decaying.Walmart, one of the biggest and more stable US companies is laying off 1500 workers.Bank of America, one of the biggest US banks is laying off 3500 workers.Meanwhile the US is importing millions of new illegals and legals every year to compete for an ever dwindling?supply of US jobs. I'm only surprised things aren't worse.Wal-Mart to Cut Back-Office Jobs at About 500 U.S. Stores - WSJBofA layoffs are the latest as an industry shrinks | TerraMost jobs simply do not require a formal, college-degree level education in order to do well at the occupation. Yet, even the lowliest of menial jobs is requiring them. Employers have their heads in the clouds: Wanting highly educated, experienced, dedicated workers, yet not willing to pay for it. So shame on them. Second, the cost of education is ridiculously out of control. Most jobs and career paths that now require degrees simply do not offer a return on investment on the cost of education. The cost of education must come down as employers simply refuse to raise pay commensurate with increased education costs. I blame this mostly on govt-backed educational loans. What a tremendous mistake those have been.Originally Posted by?11thHour?Most jobs simply do not require a formal, college-degree level education in order to do well at the occupation. Yet, even the lowliest of menial jobs is requiring them. Employers have their heads in the clouds: Wanting highly educated, experienced, dedicated workers, yet not willing to pay for it. So shame on them. Second, the cost of education is ridiculously out of control. Most jobs and career paths that now require degrees simply do not offer a return on investment on the cost of education. The cost of education must come down as employers simply refuse to raise pay commensurate with increased education costs. I blame this mostly on govt-backed educational loans. What a tremendous mistake those have been.Many times what you learn in college is not applicable to the job at all. But college is not job training so why is that a surprise? We really need to do what other countries do in terms of training people up for the kinds of jobs available today.Originally Posted by?s1alker?Many times what you learn in college is not applicable to the job at all. But college is not job training so why is that a surprise? We really need to do what other countries do in terms of training people up for the kinds of jobs available today.Certainly, it depends on the major/career. Some do train and prepare for the job, mostly those in highly specialized/skilled areas. But yes, most do not. So lots of kids, who to be fair don't know any better, are forking over big $$$ for questionable returns.A college degree was never meant to be job training.?It was, and should be, an expression of the graduate's ability to learn, understand, analyze, and process complex information. Few jobs are unlearnable and most require a decent amount of OTJ training. Give me enough information about a job and I can learn how to do it. Almost any job. Give me (1) time to read about it, (2) then practice it, then (3) I can do it. My college degrees signify that ability. The problem with employers is that they want to skip steps 1 and 2.How can colleges even train people for jobs when no one knows what jobs may exist in 10 years? Or 5 years? When I was in college, Facebook came out. No one at my college - student, professor or administrator, could have guessed that within 5 years, there would be job titles like "Director of Social Media Operations."Many people complain about the arts, humanities, & pure sciences being useless... but they have been integral parts of college education since the first universities were founded hundreds of years ago. Technical skills that people learned just 10 years ago are now obsolete. That's why you learn the timeless subjects. College is to make you something more than a worker bee. The original universities were not for the peasants.?If we want more worker bees than I suggest that we need to rethink our education system. Ironically, education for the purpose of training worker bees has been done before.... by the Soviet Union, which failed.I have suspected for quite some time now that most employers that are "hiring" are not actually actively looking to fill positions but rather are part of a bid by by the government or some other entity to make it seem like there are more job openings in the economy than there really are.?The result is that the economy looks relatively healthy, employers might through a stroke of pure luck find the perfect employee they're advertising for (but they are not obligated to hire anyone, ever, of course), and the masses are effectively subjugated by constantly being told that they simply "don't have what employers are looking for" and to go back to the drawing board and re-train for yet another newer version of the old economy...So, I'm in the market for a new job and I post my resume on an IT staffing site, and a few other places. I get calls and emails out the you know what for jobs in my field. Sometimes 3-4 different firms recruiting for the same vacancy, W2 or sometimes C2C a few contract 2 hire. Most of the recruiters are Indian.?What gets me is they all have "urgent" vacancies so I send my rate, they submit me after I sign the r2r form and then I never hear from them again. I ask for follow up and they say "we have not heard from the client" "we are checking on it"..here we are 30 days later, I've submitted probably 10 different positions and no one seems to know anything. Is this normal? What is the deal with these firms? Some of them don't even return my call or email after i inquire. That is extremely unprofessional, I wish I could rate the recruiters and/or their firms!No reason to get upset, it's common practice these days. You should understand - this market is a jungle and has the carachterisics of a jungle. If you understand that, it will be easier to deal with the job hunt.?The problem starts with employers who became really picky and have insane expectations from potential candidates. Unlike in past years, they don't work with one or two agencies but broadcast the open position to endless agencies. The agencies all hunt for the same position. When your resume was forwarded by one, the others are not even answered by the employer. There is no cortesy like in the past. These are crazy times.?Among the agencies you'll find many that aren't professional and have no idea what specific jobs in high-tech and IT are about. They just parrot buzz words from the list before them.I actually just met with a recruiter today and I can't stand them. He actually had the audacity to inform me what I described on my resume is not a true Executive Assistant. I don't know what he is talking about. He believes only EAs are if you speak to clients in-depth regarding their deals at the Company. I said no Senior or JR EAs do that as we could be fined by the gov't. I speak to clients I just am not allowed to discuss their deals as I am not licensed. I don't know what he is talking about.?My industry is heavily used by recruiters. However, in the past I have been lucky by finding my positions without them. Its been hard work but is possible.I am also working with a different recruiter who is amazing. He does not BS me or send me jobs I am not looking for. I am actually waiting to hear back from him to see if his client is interested in me coming in for an interview.Alright folks. Bear with me, some may take this as a sort of rant. I don't mean to, but I'm really frustrated at the moment.I literally just started a new job about six weeks ago. I had multiple job offers, but chose this role because it was in healthcare, which I felt would offer the most stability. After all, I purchased my first condo about a year ago, and financial stability is of the utmost importance to me at this time.Earlier this week, the new-ish CEO of our division held a meeting to discuss restructuring in our department. There is speculation among our team that we will be absorbed into another team, and our manager (who hired me) will be eliminated. My manager set up a meeting for our entire team at the end of the day today, not specifying what the meeting was about.I have had five jobs since graduating college and this seems to be the norm. Here is what I've experienced since graduating:1st job (telecom): 2.5 years into the job, we are purchased by another telecom company and major restructuring begins. I leave at the 3 year mark and avoid any fall out in our department.2nd job (IT Sales): Every year we have the equivalent of the classic GE bottom 10% terminations. I witnessed so many of my co-workers getting let go each year. I was always a good performer on the team, but the constant stress of knowing that you might be axed each year wore me down, both physically and mentally. I left at the 2 year mark, because I needed a more stable environment because I wanted to buy a home.?3rd job (telecom): I thought this was the creme de la creme of jobs. I was recruited by a former manager whom I really liked. My director was someone I had worked with before as well, and he acted as a mentor to me. Six months into the position, the company was bought by another telecom. Talks of major restructuring forces my manager to leave the company at about my 1.5 year mark. With all the instability, I start looking for a new job and leave at a hair under my 2 year mark. I get word shortly after leaving that my former director was axed.4th job (healthcare): This is my first stint in healthcare, and I'm extremely excited to do something outside of IT/telecom. But shortly after starting, I find out our department is in place as a result of a major crackdown by the federal government (Medicare/Medicaid fraud). The new department is in shambles and my manager is as aloof and distant to me as they come. The retention rate is terrible, and people are leaving left and right, some after only a few days of working there. After six months of trying to navigate the chaos, I throw in the towel and get out.Current job (healthcare): This is a public healthcare system, so I figure it's as good as it's gonna get in terms of stability. Plus, the benefits are 2nd to none. Six weeks into this gig, I learn that there is going to be major restructuring under our division's new CEO. Now there are rumors that the manager who hired me is on his way out, and our department's future is dubious.?I mean, what the hell, guys? Can I catch a break here? I just want a job like my dad where I can work somewhere for 10+ years without feeling like the rug is going to be pulled out from under me at any given moment. I'm afraid to make any more long term investments at this point.?Is this the norm these days??AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!?Originally Posted by?eyeb?I'm saying that the current environment isn't less stable in the past. The reason your dad had a "stable" career, it was because he figured out how to work in a changing environment. Something you may need to learn and accept if you want a long career at one placemaybe your dad just didn't have the opportunities you have? maybe he couldn't switch jobs so he was stuck in the same job for 40 years? maybe he had to clamp mouth, and just grind away at problems at the job until he got through the day, every day for 40 years because he had a family to provide for. You have a mortgage, he had a family + housing to provide for. His incentive to stick it out was probably higher than yours at the moment.False, completely ignorant to the realities of today. It is very much less stable now than the past. You worship work ethic like it's a magic panacea to unemployment and lack of job security. All too common on this forum. I'd like to ask you, is the economy or circumstance EVER at fault? Or is it always the responsibility of the employee to become an adequate slave, no matter the cost? Where's your head?Funny how the OP is getting hit from all sides. You need to keep improving your skills and job history to stay adaptable! You also need to stay at one company forever to prove your loyalty and provide for your family!One day, 100 years from now, we're going to laugh at how we acted. Or maybe cry.Welcome to the Cesspool of Corporate America. Where every day is "Gosh I wonder if today they tell us our jobs are going away, just because the executives decided to buy a 2nd yacht or Bentley " My eyes bug out when I see people come over from the public sector (State and Federer) into my company.. Im wondering what the HELL are they thinking.??Oh they have a better chance or promotions and more money (Maybe.). But the chances are farrrr greater they lose their job than ever see a promotionjob stability went down the crapper after 9/11. that was around the time that offshore resources became a big thing and companies realized that could make tons of money hiring people from other countries for 1/3 the pay the americans were making and no benefits to pay either.Sure there are labor laws that says employers can't do it, but it's very easy to say there are no qualified american employees.?They list 1200 requirements for a job that only requires 10.Originally Posted by?SQL?Alright folks. Bear with me, some may take this as a sort of rant. I don't mean to, but I'm really frustrated at the moment.I literally just started a new job about six weeks ago. I had multiple job offers, but chose this role because it was in healthcare, which I felt would offer the most stability. After all, I purchased my first condo about a year ago, and financial stability is of the utmost importance to me at this time.Earlier this week, the new-ish CEO of our division held a meeting to discuss restructuring in our department. There is speculation among our team that we will be absorbed into another team, and our manager (who hired me) will be eliminated. My manager set up a meeting for our entire team at the end of the day today, not specifying what the meeting was about.I have had five jobs since graduating college and this seems to be the norm. Here is what I've experienced since graduating:1st job (telecom): 2.5 years into the job, we are purchased by another telecom company and major restructuring begins. I leave at the 3 year mark and avoid any fall out in our department.2nd job (IT Sales): Every year we have the equivalent of the classic GE bottom 10% terminations. I witnessed so many of my co-workers getting let go each year. I was always a good performer on the team, but the constant stress of knowing that you might be axed each year wore me down, both physically and mentally. I left at the 2 year mark, because I needed a more stable environment because I wanted to buy a home.?3rd job (telecom): I thought this was the creme de la creme of jobs. I was recruited by a former manager whom I really liked. My director was someone I had worked with before as well, and he acted as a mentor to me. Six months into the position, the company was bought by another telecom. Talks of major restructuring forces my manager to leave the company at about my 1.5 year mark. With all the instability, I start looking for a new job and leave at a hair under my 2 year mark. I get word shortly after leaving that my former director was axed.4th job (healthcare): This is my first stint in healthcare, and I'm extremely excited to do something outside of IT/telecom. But shortly after starting, I find out our department is in place as a result of a major crackdown by the federal government (Medicare/Medicaid fraud). The new department is in shambles and my manager is as aloof and distant to me as they come. The retention rate is terrible, and people are leaving left and right, some after only a few days of working there. After six months of trying to navigate the chaos, I throw in the towel and get out.Current job (healthcare): This is a public healthcare system, so I figure it's as good as it's gonna get in terms of stability. Plus, the benefits are 2nd to none. Six weeks into this gig, I learn that there is going to be major restructuring under our division's new CEO. Now there are rumors that the manager who hired me is on his way out, and our department's future is dubious.?I mean, what the hell, guys? Can I catch a break here? I just want a job like my dad where I can work somewhere for 10+ years without feeling like the rug is going to be pulled out from under me at any given moment. I'm afraid to make any more long term investments at this point.?Is this the norm these days??AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!?Sounds "normal" to me. I went thru the same shyt just a few years ago. Same crap, different industry.The so-called "economy" of today is one where nepotism, favoritism, connections reign supreme. It's not a place for the meek or introverted, that's for sure. While there are no guarantees in the new Obama economy, extroverts (and especially the aggressive or back-stabbing variety) "have it made" compared to introverts.Nepotism, favoritism, connections are more important than EVER! I can't stress that enough. If you are tied in to the "good ole boys" where you work you can rest easy. If not? You better have a plan B at all times cause you could walk in one day and get laid off w/ no warning (like I did). If you are not part of the "in" crowd or "inner circle" you are expendable and thus at risk of being cut.There is NO security anymore! America's best days are obviously behind her. My dad worked at the same job for almost 15 years, then went on to another job that lasted 7 years, then another job for 6 years, and so on. All GOOD living wage jobs that had benefits and insurance, he supported us (family of 5) fully on his sole income alone for over 20 years (before he had an injury and had to stop working). That kind of security just doesn't exist anymore in this country.....Welcome to the new economy, where merit and achievement matters not, and connections/brown-nosing is the key to "getting ahead" or "making it to the top"?Now I'm not a Bernie fan, but I do agree w/ him on one thing: "we have a rigged economy" these days. If you compare the 2016 rigged economy to the 50's/60's economy it's like night and day. My dad was here during the tail-end of the 60's and the entirety of the 70's/80's decades, he says times were good back then and the jobs actually *lasted*. He says back then if you weren't working it was your own fault or you were simply lazy/didn't "want it" bad enough, since there was no shortage of work.It seems that the most secure jobs are the ones with strong unions such as teaching, police officer etc. which are not always that easy to get into or to transition to. There's also the burn out factor.I'm experiencing the same thing at my new job. Despite the fact that my company just hired a bunch of new employees including me, my company seems to have begun a huge effort to merge the teams in my dept, make teams and individuals justify their productivity through more frequent and rigorous reports, experiment with outsourcing, and overall put on a better show for investors. It makes sense since my department (engineering) is, I suspect, a huge part of the budget. I'm dusting off my resume just in case.Originally Posted by?SQL?It seems some people want to paint this as a "me" issue (not you). But like you, I've learned new skills, been open to changing roles, etc. What people don't understand is that when there is major restructuring, or if you're absorbed by another company, your hands are tied in most cases. They will eliminate redundancies or positions when some exec up the food chain thinks it's not necessary. It has nothing to do with my willingness to make it work.My current job is in public healthcare. We're essentially an arm of the local government, and we're heavily subsidized by the federal government.I have had similar problem in tech in Denver and now in So Cal. Pay is good, company mergers, and c yah no severance unless you are VP level. Corporate America is ruthless these days. Most of the people I know in tech in Denver still are forced to move every year because of jacked quotas every year or downsizing/layoffs.?I think it's going to get worse unfortunately with an unstable economy, major political chaos in the US spreading fast in EU.IMO, it seems office workers will always have this issue of being replaced or outsourced or downsized.?It seems occupations that required some government regulations are the most stable like health care provider, electrician, politician, etc. I have a friend making 100-150k fitting and selling hearing aid! She was a graphic designer who took some non-med post grad course! Nurses friends find job in days. Government workers unfazed by recession.Careers today are nothing more than sequence of jobs in a related field. Pensions are long gone, an up or out mentality is the norm.Originally Posted by?kasuga888?IMO, it seems office workers will always have this issue of being replaced or outsourced or downsized.?It seems occupations that required some government regulations are the most stable like health care provider, electrician, politician, etc. I have a friend making 100-150k fitting and selling hearing aid! She was a graphic designer who took some non-med post grad course! Nurses friends find job in days. Government workers unfazed by recession.Ironically enough, I work for a government-subsidized HCP now. And a major reorg, 1.5 months into my tenure, has already begun. I'm not sure any industry/field is stable anymore.I get what you're saying. I can see how it's frustrating, scary and nerve-wracking. Thankfully you seem to be a survivor.?One thing that is really wrong with corporate America, from what I can see, no matter what struggles or cut-backs or lay offs, the upper management is going to get their HUGE salaries.?Forbes Welcome"Across the board, the more CEOs get paid, the worse their companies do over the next three years"[I have a Bachelor's Degree and Can't find Anything]I have a bachelor's degree in?Law?and Justice and I haven't been able to find anything. I really don't want to be a police officer (I don't know how to drive anyway) and it's gotten to the point where I'm looking into getting any job I'm able to get. I've tried applying for jobs at Target and Albertsons but all they say is, "We'll let you know if there's an opening." Then why did you post on your piece of crap website that you needed a?cashier?or retail person? I don't really have any work experience (it's mostly volunteer but even that's limited) and I can't even find any internships in my field.I've been looking for 6 months now. My parents are paying for my school loans and I feel like such a failure and a burden. I'm 25, I should be out there living my life and paying my own school loans instead of living at home like I'm still a freaking teenager!I'm looking everyday for jobs but it's getting to where I end up depressed the rest of the day.What do I do now? I'm at my wit's end...youdontkillmoney in Los Angeles, California said:?It's about sending the right signal and matching up to employer expectations; if you will say you have a degree in?law?and justice, and then applying at at Target, don't apply for the sales/cashier?position, but a security guard position. That would be a better fit.I've tried applying for security before at another store and I still didn't get the job.How am I suppose to get work experience if everyone wants 1 -3 years of it?I recently quit DG for numerous reasons, one i was promised my own sore within 3 months i went through the store manager 2 week training course and was certified its been 6 months and still no store of my own, they had me traveling everywhere to fill in for others, and because of this my car is now dead, they never gave me store manager pay, they never gave me my reimbursement for gas miles, when i was first hired with the company i was informed that new stores were being built so i would be able to get my own, and my raise, which i needed badly well that never happened instead i was told months later that no stores are being opened and everyone is fully staffed so here i was?full time?status with no work or hours for weeks, another thing when my daughter got sick i was told to bring her to work with me, when i needed to take her to the?hospital?instead, im sorry but my?children?come first, needless to say i did not work that day...ive had nothing but problems with this company, they always screwed up on my checks..and now i have a check for a whole 7 hours i worked last week, that they are holding, because this bitter store manager?claims?i still have her store keys, ( i absolutely do not have)...so now here i am jobless, carless, cant afforsdaycare?or any bills for that matter.I would never suggest anyone ever work for this company....or shop there for that matter the quality of the product from my experience is bad.,?sincerly,?T.R.I am an employee for DG, the company hired an unprepared unqualified store manager as he DM because the RM didnt want to do the job herself. There has been ramped accusations of racism raised directly to the RM and her Boss that have been undertaken by the DM but because the RM doesnt want to get stuck doing the job herself she has ignored all the complaints. You can document all you want DG will just ignore the complaints until they get sued or have some agency investigate them. Recently a black female employee went to my RM's boss about charges of racism and still nothing has changed.?This is typical corporate america deny deny deny and when u get caught lie lie lie.I have worked for dolloar?general?for 13 months now. I was transfered to another store within 6 months to be third key. I did not mind this because i new the manager there. I am now about to put in my 2 weeks notice because when does a third key get cut back to 25 hours and asm gets cut to under 28 hours. And don't the clerks get their hours by their senority. Since when does a?clerk?who has worked for 2 months get more hours than a clerk who has been there 6 months longer. The customers complain about the manager all the time and the Dm says he is going to take care of it. If you are thinking about working for dollar general run don't walk the other the way. They do not treat their employees right.Want to talk about discrimination with a regional... My regional, Frank Venturella told my?district manager?that because i wouldn't transfer to a store to clean it up... again and my 5th store to clean in 5 years, he wanted me fired and now because of that he told my DM I have no chance of moving up with the company... Is this a company wide problem or what? I'm giving my notice in a few days and I have a 5 page letter being sent to all the head and corporate and my divisional... Not that it'll do any good but i'm going to try, so hopefully noone has to go through what I did.. I love my job and my crew but I can't do it anymore and why do i want to stay if i'm not going anywhere... Real boost in the morale huh!?!?!?!?!?!I worked at DG in Corpus Christi,TX. on Greenwood Dr. We have an?assistant manager?from hell. He wrote everyone up he didn't like and the ones he liked he would put money in for their shortages and not write up the ones he favored. Company policy does not do any good with him. He is a felon and was charged with sexual harrassment within the company. He's still there.I didn't show up for work one day and he already has me as a no hire. I talked to the other?assistantthe next day and told her I wanted a transfer.He turned this around and I am a no hire. Now is this fair or what? The DM is no better I've told her about him and no results.I'm trying to still transfer as of yet I haven't heard anything. At least at another store where I'll be treated fairly. Another day at DG!i have worked at DG for almost 5 months now, and i am ready to leave. i had everything done to me from telling me to get someone to watch my sick son to never getting a break no matter how many hrs i work. however, this week was the worse. i went into work today and their was a note in between the registers saying that there was a store meeting on easter sunday at 9am. the note also stated that if you don't come to the meeting you are fired. all easter services start around 9am, so my manager is making us choose between the store or the Lord. I refused to go to the meeting. A?customer?saw the note and went to the manager to complain, after this i was excused from the meeting. However i feel my job is threaten because the manager is a Bi**h anyway. i would like to start a class action lawsuit, however i don't know where to begin...DG is a joke to work for. They expect you to work twice as hard for 1/2 the pay of any other retail store. In our store you can be scheduled for 8 hours or 16 hours in a day and get no breaks. And it is?legal?because in my state there are no break laws. They treat you like you should have no life outside of DG. And god forbid you have a death in your family, you mind as well forget about going to the funeral or you will get fired for not being at work. DG is insensitive and Corporate only cares about making money not about the well being of it's employees.My fiancee works at a Dollar?General?Market and the things that go on there need to be investigated privately. She tries to be nice to the lead?cashier?and the (new) store manager, and they treat her like complete dirt. The first day she worked, I went in there to return her car keys, and was treated rudely by Sonya, telling me that she did not work there. Sonya's attitude really needs an uplifting, and the store manager needs to quit being a smart aleck to his employees. I have gone in there myself without my fiancee there, and all Sonya does is talk to her friends for 30 to 45 minutes at a time on company time. I have also seen cashiers call for a manager (when Sonya is working) and they have to wait 5 to 10 minutes for a response and the?customer?has to wait also. My fiancee has asked to be transferred, and no action has been taken. My fiancee also got written up for something really not associated with the company and when she asked for a copy of the write-up, she was told that it was company property and that she could not have a copy! I know if the?District Manager?knew what was going on in that store, he would be livid. Before I forget, I also need to say that Sonya and another manager like to talk rude and nasty to their employees in front of customers, and they are managers of the store. Please look into this matter privately so if any new employees start there, they do not have to go through with what everyone else is going through!welcome to the Dollar?General?way they just want to use you for the stripe on their uniform bit of advice... refuse anything that isnt your job description constantly remind them that the new girl needs the training if shes gonna be able to do her job and if you do what is expected and only your job description they cant?fire?you for that and you know what if they do no harm for you because plenty of jobs out their that pay the same and treat you better than youll be treated there I promise you that?I never looked over an employee willing and able to be promoted but it boils down to what the sm and dm say which most of the time is BS and you cant beat the bs at the dgI was a store manager with DG for about 2 years. I came on board after five years of retail management experience in the St. Louis market. I have never encountered a company like DG.?1-Management is given no resources to work with. The company is well aware of its image problems (dirty, out of stock stores, bad costumer service, etc.). However their solution to this is to berate DM's, who then make life miserable for SM's. I ran two different million dollar a year stores and never had more than 140 pay roll hours to work with. Which meand if you are management, be ready for 70 hour work weeks and never having more than one?associateworking.?2-This company is archaic in all forms of technology. There are no PC's in the store and the ancient?IBM?registers crash with regularity.?3- There is a major problem with?inventory. Stores receive about 1000 pieces of freight each week but you have no idea what you are getting at the store level. Nothing is checked in; you just have to take it on faith that you are getting what the warehouse says you are getting. This leads to massive shrink at inventory time, which is chalked up to internal theft at the store level. This is preposterous given that there is no manifest available to SM's to confirm what is coming in to the store vs. what is supposedly shipped.?3-The biggest problem is the handling of people. Don't expect to make more than minimum wage if you are at the?clerk?level. From a management standpoint, it is nearly impossible to find good help because you can't pay anything or even offer many hours. In my experience, the way any employee issues were dealt with was to discredit poor performeres, accuse them of theft that is impossible to prove or disprove and either terminate them, berate them into leaving or cut their hours down to nothing.?In short, working there was a miserable experience. The company seems to put no value on its people, loves to put unrealistic expectations on magaement vs. the resources.i've worked for dg for over 4yrs. 3yrs are as store manager.. my crew and myself bust our butts every day. my store is a 2mil. store our?inventorywas a .87% this year and last year it was 1.13. i average about 200 hours a week and 1500 pieces a week..one thing is true pay sucks for the females i know because i'm one of them.. our store stays clean and well stocked every day..trucks are put up in 36 hours of delievery. but my store is a reflection of me.. so everyone is right it depends on store managers because they are the ones to set the pace.i dont ask my employees to do anything that i don't do myself and yes i have to fight for all of there raises and merit raises when i can get them and they don't start out at min.wage.. it has its pros and cons.. but when bonus time rolls around i'm laughing all the way to the?bank... and i give my crew a part of my bonus's as well..you take care of your crew and they will take care of you...I have only been with dg 6. mo but I really enjoy it. I work with very nice people. All of us get along Great. I live only a few minutes from work in a small town in ohio We always are busting our butts to keep the store clean & in order. Thier is actually a waiting list of future employees that consist of 15 people. I am fortune to have my job & make sure to give my 100% because there is plent people in line if i fail in my duties. & there is many people without jobs. point being " Stop Complaning You have a job thats more than most people can say. if you hate your jobs this much there is always something else .So quit complaining you do like your pay or duties - There's more place than D/G. if you hate your jobs that much!P.S. It doesnt matter if you make 5 dollars a hour or 50 dollars an hour YOU CANT TAKE IT WITH YOU .... A 4-MILLION DOLLAR HOME & MERCEDES BENZ in the drive way aint gonna matter when your gone !!!!YIKES--the positives? REALLY? I worked my hind end off for two months for that company as third key--they never got around to giving me the MONEY that comes with that position, but they had no issues giving me the RESPONSIBILITIES of that position!! They use you at Dollar?Generaland have no problem doing so. The corporate rules are pathetic and obviously made by the "suits" because no one in their right mind who has ever worked the register at a Dollar General would implement such ridiculous, laughable policies!! I have worked for 20 years in different fields and I have NEVER seen such a preposterous corporation as Dollar General. Working as management for minimum wage is UNHEARD OF!! Sad little?business?for SURE. I will NEVER EVER spend another dime in one of their stores for ANY reason.matatdollargeneral in spanish fort, Alabama said:What is sad is that you worked for this company and yet you don't know anything about it. We are not so little DG is 8200 stores and going strong.HA I know that the "suits" are the ones making the money and making the ridiculous policies and paying slave wages to those doing the WORK. Ok, not little--HUGE, ugly company. I have never worked in retail before--I HAVE worked in restaurants. I told myself that?food?would be the LAST job I ever did again...after working at DollarGeneral, I would go back into?food service?in a HEARTBEAT, however, I would eat DIRT and live on a street before I worked retail again. I can work like a dog and get crappy pay at home and I don't have to get out of my pajamas!! My first job was for $2.85 an hour bussing tables at a truck stop--I would do THAT job again for that pay rather than work for Dollar General! The store manager was grossly inept at training anyone...he basically threw you in the water and stood back while you fought to sink or swim, then chewed you out daily because you didn't swim properly. Sorry! Teach me to swim or let me do it my own way, but you cannot have it both ways. I am going back to doing taxes and dealing with the IRS for $10 bucks an hour...almost sounds like a vacation now. HA now I can appreciate a GOOD job and a GOOD boss as well as a RESPECTABLE place of employment.The dollar store in Hickman is in bad shape... The manager of the store is a very mean woman. She will lie to the employees about what corporate says. She takes the schedule home and no one knows when they are suppose to work. Accuses the employees of stealing because they didn't bring in a certain amount. Gets mad if the empolyees talk to the customers.... rolls around in a backless chair all day...throws so much work on the employees and then writes them up... only hires a certain race now... tries to find reasons to?fire?the ones that are of wrong color...tries to keep the employess fighting all the time.... very bad place to work, I don't want to do my shopping there anymore and alot of people here in Hickman are talking about boycotting the dg....Maybe corporate will do something about her before it is too late and the brand new store goes belly up!!!the company culture at DG? Simple. all the employees are nothing but thieves and can not be trusted.oh yeah, you have to do at least 15 different tasks at the same time.good thing i graduated from?college?and got a real job.I recently quit working at my local Dollar?Generalafter only 1 month for the following reasons.?-A manager who was not qualified for the position. All store employees are required to sign STAR HUDDLES. I believe that the manager is supposed to explain each one in person. Ours did not. AND, if I was off on the day it was put up to be signed, she would sign it for me. After telling her not to sign my name, she continued to.-The same manager brought her personal life into work all of the time.?-I had a friend that used to work there. When she quit, a different manager told me that she would love to slap my friend across the face.?-All managers logged onto my drawer under my number at least once a day. Then would log in under their number, making my drawer short for the night.?-My manager left all of the time. I'm not sure where she went.?-My main manager took a smoke break every 30 min. I once had a?customer?trying to buy a phone charger. It rang up 8.50. She told me the price said 6. I went to check, and it was. So I went on a hunt to find my manager. She was definately not in the store. I went outside to see if she was smoking. I couldn't find her. The customer changed her mind and left, leaving my drawer stuck. I couldn't find my manager to void it out, and I had a line of customers. I then saw her get out of a customers car and come inside. She was smoking and talking to that customer. I know she saw me looking for her, but still decided she could finish her cigarette. Then got mad at me for getting a void.?-The store was very dirty. If customers paid enough attention, they would find glue traps for mice behind many of the?food?products. There was also rat poop on shelves that hadn't been cleaned in a while. Anytime I found some, I would clean it. No one else did this apparently.?Bad store to work for.I recently quit DG having worked there for 3 years, and must say, I would never work there again: nor would I suggest the company to anyone else.I worked in various managerial positions, from stores to higher management: the company is quite faulty on several fronts - from a severe lack of hours given to the stores when it came to working a reasonable week, to an unbelievable stress level for management especially.A comment made earlier about the lack of any check-in procedure upon receipt of trucks is spot on. The ensuing shrink might, or might not be in-store theft, but it's awfully hard to figure out when the trucks, often totaling well over $30,000 a time in high sales stores, are simply received on faith. Until recently, drug tests for new employees atcashier?level were not mandatory, and also it has only been a recent thing to even profile someone properly via test before?hiring?them.The staff you get for minimum wage are not the best, many times - and those who you hire who ARE good, will soon quit because they'd be nuts to continue working for $6.55 an hour... As a manager, you are expected to come in at all hours of the day and night to cover for employees who don't show up. Even in a fully staffed store, you will find yourself with one day off a week (very rarely do DG managers get more than one day) and bombarded with telephone calls that entire day. You have no life and one week's holiday a year.As a higher manager, it actually gets worse. The stress level at that point is so enormous that most DG DM's are on some type of blood pressure medication, or drink too much to compensate for crazy working lives (or some other form of relaxation technique). DM's have no lives at all, from what I've seen - they can't go spend time with their families and work so hard that on occasion, they put themselves in the?hospital.Pay is as low as they can go, too. So it's just not worth it. Corporate America at it's worst, as far as I am concerned.Additionally, I have to say that the main reasons this company is so profitable is that it pays so little, and has taken so very long to upgrade systems from stone-age ones. Cutting back on everything from hours to salaries, and condensing districts into larger, more impossible to manage areas has made the company rich. That, along with slow and steady little-by-little price increases continues to make DG look terribly successful when really, it's all going to come crashing down in the next year or so, one way or another.Discrimination/Wrongful TerminationComplaint Rating:?Company information:?Dollar?General?Corp?Ashland, Ohio?United StatesThis is my story. In April of 08 I started out as a 3rd key on Galion Ohio. I was quickly promoted to?Assistant Manager, due to my work ethic and willingness to break my back to get the job done. Later in that year I transferred to Mansfield store #4638, a store that did a third of the volume that I was used to working in, as?Assistant?Manager there. My fiancé (who became so after I was transferred) was still the manager at 10401, performing at the top or #2 of our district. In April 09 his store, which was first to be Model Store Certified, was chosen to become a perfect store, so for 12 days he worked 10-12 hour days, sometimes over night, hand in hand with the team from Corporate to get the remodel done. The day that it was completed we had a district managers meeting in my current store (4638). My fiancé comes out and says that he has been suspended along with another manager because they couldn’t find a paper trail from the literacy deposits in either store. No money was missing, just no paper trail. Now if you work for this corporation, you are familiar with how much pressure we have put on us to collect literacy, but it just goes in our store deposits, so he had no doubt that they would find out whatever the problem was, fix it, and reinstate him. WRONG. One week later the DM called him and the other manager into another store and fired them for “Misappropriation of Company Funds”. 1st, literacy is NOT a company fund, and 2nd, no lawyer could help them because as managers they were “at will” employees.?Meanwhile, I am still employed at Dollar General in my same position. I assumed that I would be next because by that time my fiancé and I were married, and I assumed that in the companies eyes, my still being there would be a conflict of interest. I inquired a few times but my DM assured me that he had no doubt that I would be a company, and that he had such big plans for me, and that he wanted me in my own store as soon as possible. One week before I was moved to my own store in Ashland #6729, I caught an employee who admitted to stealing at least $1750 from our store alone (she had transferred in from 2 other stores in our district). I then was promoted to Store Manager of store #6729 on May 22, 09. When I got there the store had been without a manager for about 2 ? months, so it was 8 plan-o-grams behind, and just a mess. TheAssistant Manager?who has been there 5 years still cannot do a MAAP, and both the Asst. and Lead forced balanced their tills at the end of the night, just sticking any extra monies in an office drawer. Then if they were ever over that’s what they could pull from. The Asst. informed me that it just got to the point that when things were short, there was never any money in the little “till”. I tried to put a stop to this because I knew the extra money was going in someone’s pocket, but up to the day that I left for Managers School in Columbus OH, she was still bringing me her till to count with the forced slip on top. The day before I left for school I had made it clear that policies and procedures would be followed, or I would start the?counseling?process. My third key turned in her keys and walked off of her shift that day.?I started school on 6/15/09 after calling my DM (JIM HIKE), and making him aware of what had happened, and also alerting him that on my weekly statement it showed me short $500+ on a day two weeks prior, and that I was concerned because I had no record of this. It was also a day when my main printer was down, and that mycredit/EBT machine was replaced on that side. His response was for me to take the statements to the school and maybe the?instructor?could explain it. In the meantime I had figured out that it was just that my EBT and credit card deposit had not hit that day. When I called to inform Jim of this for 2 days straight, he would not answer or return my calls.?Yesterday 6/19/09, at the end of my day of class, I was called out and told that I had a visitor. It was Jim Hike and the area?Loss Prevention?guy, Terry Serb. I was told that before I came to my store, there were NEVER, any transaction voids, and that he had gotten a report yesterday on me that I had done several 8-9, in the last several weeks. I told them that I had not done anything fraudulent because I have the logs from other keys having had to do them as well. Of course I couldn’t remember the details on each receipt, so Terry proceeds to tell me they already know everything except the why. He wanted me to admit to stealing whatever the amount came too, and then just be done with me. Now this store has no camera system, which I have begged for, so there is no way for me, or for that matter, them, to prove or disprove any wrong doing. I wrote a statement for them saying that I would willfully participate in any investigation, and that I felt that I was being discriminated against because I am the wife of a terminated previous manager.?This company has so many fishy practices, and they hide behind the “AT WILL” statement that we all sign at the beginning of our employee handbooks. My husband lost a $3000 bonus and 40 hours vacation. The other manager lost the same. When Terry was done reading my statement (I don’t believe that he knew that I was married to a former employee) he then said that he thought he would have to suspend me.?I have been nothing but faithful to this company, even after all that has happened. I would state under oath that I had nothing to do with any false anything. I find it strange that Dollar?Generalemployees a?District Manager, who owns a bar that is stocked with Dollar General property, who patronizes and lives with known addicts, and the head is turned the other way. The company car sits in the front of that bar EVERY night.? I want my position back, I want my vacation back, I want my STARS reward (for the arrest of an employee who stole enough to get arrested for a felony) and I want an apology. Any questions or comments you can email me at jlhredhead@. Any one involved with the company, I welcome your calls or correspondence.Sincerely,Jessica BakerI work part time at a local DG. I applied in May (for a summer job BTW) and I was hired a week into July. When I work, I am not only the maincashier?(9x out of 10...the only one), I stock shelves, unload deliveries, get carts out of the parking lot and about 20 other things. Typically, there is only 3 people working in the store at any time. Once, it was just me and my SM for 6 hours. ( Needless to say, not much was done. ) Only because I am trying to pay for?college?do I still have this job. I have 2 more weeks to work...and am counting down the hours.jlhredhead in Mansfield, Ohio said:?Continued PART 4 of 4I want my position back, I want my vacation back, I want my STARS reward (for the arrest of an employee who stole enough to get arrested for a felony) and I want an apology. Any questions or comments you can email me at jlhredhead@. Any one involved with the company, I welcome your calls or correspondence.Sincerely,Jessica BakerWow....Having been unemployed for 6 weeks; I was offered a part time position with DG in mid-July and gladly accepted what ever hours they could give me. I was offered 3rd approximately 3 weeks into the job and it being?full time?with a raise once I had completed my training I was excited. Here we are into October and I am working fulltime still at status of parttime and the raise? Well I have given up on seeing that anytime soon....especially since I started doing research on DG and most of the forums have very negative forums and very few positive experiences. This saddens me since I love what I am doing and I love working with my coworkers.....I am truly torn....do I continue to work for a company that has no regards for good employees and live on a shoe string wage or should I find employment elsewhere and turn in my keys??Man this forum and others that I have found in other websites has become soooo discouraging.....Any suggestions?????Unfortunately, this company does not stand behind anything that it tells you. They are not out to protect you or reward you for your back breaking work. Give it 3 months and you will begin to see the back stabbing that goes on. Upper management will use you as their fall guy, especially if something goes wrong. Can't say I didn't warn you.?My lawyer is dealing with 9 fired store managers in this area alone, all wrongfully terminated.?have been with DG for more than 15 years. Although it is a challenge, it is not a bad job. It does depend on the people you are directly under. If you go in as manager, then do something to change things. I have always been told if you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem. I know there are some bad managment members out there, but there is also a survey on peoples receipts. If people will call and give honest remarks then maybe something will be done.I have worked at DG since August of this year and so far I am not impressed. Its a far cry better than where I was Working (fast food) but it still is a very strange place to work for. THe "corporate" rules sometimes sound a bit ridiculous.I have been with DG since July of this year. I have to admit that when I first started I had my doubts with all of the corporate policies that seemed to be direct slams against current employees, however I am now 3rd key holder and recently had a shrink training meeting and it opened my eyes and I understand now the reason for such policies. Amazing the things people can come up with in finding ways to cheat and steal from ones employer. I must admit that I could use more hours or a raise, but I am thankful for having a job which is more than some people can say with this economy and all of the plant closings in this area. Anyway it has its bad days but for the most part they are good. I guess it all depends upon the people you work with.I have worked for a few major retailers, and I hear the same thing everytime. So don't get discouraged with any negativity, because the real truth is that when people are happy they tend not to let others know about it. It will be upto you how you enjoy your experience. I have had horrible managers in my past but I loved the work. So I did something about it, I became the manager and I lead my associates according to the golden rule. We have fun and we get the work done.I'm a former DG employee that left to manage for a different discount chain. Unfortunately all the posts I've read about several chains are very similar. Sadly, hardwork and loyalty don't carry much weight with the suits who profit from our sweat and sacrifices. They consider us to be "disposable minions".Rebazillek, I was wondering if your store is located in Hickory Hills. If so we might have info that would be of interest to each other.Host said:?Every?business?has it's own style. What is the office environment and culture like at DollarGeneral?Are people dressed in business casual, jeans and t-shirts, or full-on suits? Do folks get together for Friday happy hours and friendly get-togethers?What is a typical day in the life of an employee at Dollar General?I love working for Dollar General. In our store we wear yellow polo shirts and black jeans. Recently we were given aprons with a pink energizer bunny which has lead to humorous conversations between employees and customers who "remember their batteries". We have a store manager, two?assistant?store managers, one third key, and four cashiers including me..all with a positive attitude. We care about our customers because they are our neighbors and friends. As a store?associate?a typical day is running the cash register, helping customers find items, putting up misplaced items, dusting, bringing in carts, sweeping sidewalk, emptying trash, sweeping and mopping floor, refilling cooler, refilling bag area, clean doors, restrooms, and break area, sign for mail, stock merchandise, front and recover, breakdown boxes. The hardest of all this is letting someone else count down my drawer at the end of the day. On the negative side, one thing that has dampened my spirits is our?district manager?doesn't approve of our store. It is implied he has issues with our store manager. I personally think he is a great manager, and I know we are all there working our asses off and WE KNOW WE HAVE DONE A DAMN GOOD JOB..just sucks that we can't get his POSITIVE feedback.This is also a problem in Georgia it seems that if there is a need to fill for the holidays they get you in then?fire?you for any inconcievable reason like conflict of interest if you hire someone that you ..know ? This company is headed for a slow and deliberate failure due to?law?suits and unfair employment practices...Lega36cy in Platteville, Wisconsin said:?I may be jaded, but I don't see it happening.?I would say follow protocal by speaking to your manager, then your?district manager, an so on. If you overstep your bounds, it would be cause for dismissal.?I too loved working for DG, but it wasn't in gods hands to keep me there. I see it as I was there for a reason, only god see why. I only see it as I was a means to an end to fill an empty position during the rush holiday season.?They can terminate you for any reason or no reason at all. Your an AT will employee. So if you cause problems...(your transfer)?you may find yourself without a job, no matter how hard you work.?Sorry, I wish I had some good news for you, but I don't. See my posts above for more info on my upset with the co.?take care.I started working for DG in October of 2009. Just before Thnaksgiving our third key was fired due to a failed drug test. I was immediately offered the job and promised benifits and a pay raise plus?full time?status. Now it is January 3rd 2010, and I have no raise, still part time in the system, working 39 hours a week, opening and closing with management abilities, and also did not recieve Christmas pay or new years pay, when I closed Christmas eve, and opened new years day. My boss tells me it's nothing to do with her. Really? Cause the DM never answers her phone for a month for me, but will go behind me a "tattle" to the SM that I am annoying leaving repeated messages on her phone. So withholding pay, letting someone work third key but not paying them for it, and not even getting holiday pay or full time status. I believe I will wait to be canned and take unemployment from these people.potatoman83 in Sevierville, Tennessee said:?I started working for DG in October of 2009. Just before Thnaksgiving our third key was fired due to a failed drug test. I was immediately offered the job and promised benifits and a pay raise plus?full time?status. Now it is January 3rd 2010, and I have no raise, still part time in the system, working 39 hours a week, opening and closing with management abilities, and also did not recieve Christmas pay or new years pay, when I closed Christmas eve, and opened new years day. My boss tells me it's nothing to do with her. Really? Cause the DM never answers her phone for a month for me, but will go behind me a "tattle" to the SM that I am annoying leaving repeated messages on her phone. So withholding pay, letting someone work third key but not paying them for it, and not even getting holiday pay or full time status. I believe I will wait to be canned and take unemployment from these people.I experienced the same situation as you....Was hired in July, promoted to 3rd key in less than 3 weeks and then waited for months to get my raise and employee status to change from parttime to fulltime. It wasn't until the asst manager told the manager that I was going to give 2 weeks notice that the raise was on my next pay check. But my hours went from 38 to 40 per week to around 33 hours per week so the pay really didn't change and they waited long enough that I was ineligible for the fulltime benefits, hence I wait for another full year forinsurance. We had our parttime 3rd key quit without notice, leaving us to work open to close on our weekends. How beneficial for the manager....being on salary she gains 5 hours per weekend toward her hours and the remaining keyholders lose 4 hours by being forced to clock out for 2 one hour breaks during this period. I feel that being "on call" and unable to leave the store during this time we should be paid, since we are responsible for all voids and returns/refunds.GMA_Nae in Somewhere In, Iowa said:?I experienced the same situation as you....Was hired in July, promoted to 3rd key in less than 3 weeks and then waited for months to get my raise and employee status to change from parttime to fulltime. It wasn't until the asst manager told the manager that I was going to give 2 weeks notice that the raise was on my next pay check. But my hours went from 38 to 40 per week to around 33 hours per week so the pay really didn't change and they waited long enough that I was ineligible for the fulltime benefits, hence I wait for another full year for?insurance. We had our parttime 3rd key quit without notice, leaving us to work open to close on our weekends. How beneficial for the manager....being on salary she gains 5 hours per weekend toward her hours and the remaining keyholders lose 4 hours by being forced to clock out for 2 one hour breaks during this period. I feel that being "on call" and unable to leave the store during this time we should be paid, since we are responsible for all voids and returns/refunds.Trust me the breaks really aren't breaks when you are constantly being paged to the front of the store to either void a product or perform a return/refund, do cash pickups and other similar tasks. In October I was informed of MANDATORY shrink training that was 144 miles round trip for me to drive....transportation was to be remitted....my manager gave me 104 miles, (distance from store to meeting) and according to DM we were to be paid from the time we left our homes to our return. Well my manager worked in an unpaid break so instead of getting paid from 8:30 am to 2:30 pm I was only paid for 5 hours. As for the mileage check? I have yet to receive it and it is now 2010. I loved thegeneral?work don't get me wrong, but the company doesn't care about the employees and cares even less about what managers are doing or better yet what they are NOT doing. I say good luck to anyone wanting to work for DG at all.i am a key holder in a small town dg. since i have started there i have found that the manager NEVER works even close to 40 hours a week, and the?assistant?and i are constantly called in to cover hours. i also learned the the managers get very large bonuses. but in my case it is in fact the employees not to manage who deserve the bonuses. none of the mark downs get done, the day shift does no recovery. the girls working nights do all the work. i really think i need to file some sort of complaint, because the payroll keeps getting cut, but because she is salaried, the manager still gets paid and we are the ones covering her hours for her. she doesn't have to punch in or out. i can't believe it has gone on this long.why does the company need to do a reset every year? last year when the new clip strip system when in we did new planogram setup's through out the store from what i seened the same changes we did last year are to be done again doesn't make sense to me why changes are need this quick .i work in a store that is consider a front to back but due to the property it sit's on the layout of the store can't be consider a true front to back and we experience problems with certain areas when we have map changes andevent?sale's if i was in charge of deciding what to classify this store as i would have made it a racetrack or something along those lines..our reset crew is due anytime now maybe the changes won't mess up the store any more than it is now..I was a store manager with Dollar?General?for 2 years. I was hurt with a steel cage; I am on crutches for the rest of my life. I have to have special shoes built. I have developed RSD due to the injury. Let me tell you what a wonderful company Dollar General?claims?to be! I had to have my cam walker replace in March. My lawyer had it approved; I went down to the ortho place to get my boot and arm brace. The specialist but the boot and brace on me and I was going out the door when the receptionist called me back. She said, I’m sorry but Dollar General is refusing to pay for the boot and brace. I had to take the cam walker and brace off. I watched the specialist put gloves on and dig my old boot (I had to tape it closed) and brace out of the trash bin and put them back on me. I was so mad, and mortified. I cried for days. It took me four weeks to get the walker and brace. I still have not got my shoe. I worked 80 hrs a week sometimes; I took a store that got robbed every 3 months. No one else would take it. This is the repayment I get for doing my best. I won my case and still am fighting. Please, Please think twice before going to work for this company.You want the good and the bad. The good of Dollar?General?are the customers and the few faithful employees that are left at DG.I have seen employees fired for not smiling, but then I think, we all have bad days. I have seen employees who are slower at the register then others, let go because their basket size was not high enough, and for anyone that worked at Dollar General knows that means your stealing. Not!!! Let me tell you my story and you decide if you want to work for this company.?I was a store manager with Dollar General for 2 years. I was hurt with a steel cage; I am on crutches for the rest of my life. I have to have special shoes built. I have developed RSD due to the injury. Let me tell you what a wonderful company Dollar General?claims?to be! I had to have my cam walker replace in March. My lawyer had it approved; I went down to the ortho place to get my boot and arm brace. The specialist but the boot and brace on me and I was going out the door when the receptionist called me back. She said, I’m sorry but Dollar General is refusing to pay for the boot and brace. I had to take the cam walker and brace off. I watched the specialist dig my old boot (I had to tape it closed) and brace out of the trash bin and put them back on me. I was so mad, and mortified. I cried for days. It took me four weeks to get the walker and brace. I still have not got my shoe. I worked 80 hrs a week . I took a store that got robbed every 3 months. No one else would take it. This is the repayment I get for doing my best. I won my case and still am fighting. Dollar General has appealed the case and now they are refusing to pay for my trips to the doctors. Please, please think twice before going to work for this company.Im a 3rd key and my DM has threatened to terminate me due to my basket size. I've been with the company 3 years and have never had any problems. went to work and did my job. I ve never been short on deposits or my till. so he came to me and had me sign 3 years worth or write ups and told me I would be terminted. then he said he would give me a few weeks to improve and that I would be watched? is this right? how could I raise my basket size and not get fired??? help...I need my job.you cannot force people to buy items they don't need or can't afford. that whole basket size counceling is a crock. with the economy the way it is, people need to rely on the dollar?generalstores for there prices and convenience. in the small town i am in, the?grocery store?has outrageous prices because they know people will pay that or travel 30 minutes to the nearest WalMart. Thank goodness for Dollar General, it is handy and affordable. But no on wants to be persuaded into buying things they don't really need.I have been working at DG for a little over a year. Within the year i have seen so much crazy stuff happen. The asst. manager got transfered and a couple of weeks after she left our SM got fired. All of this happened around May. The middle of June our DM quit. We have been running our store for the last couple of months without a DM, a SM, or an Asst. Our store now looks like crap. DG is taking their sweet little time in bringin in some one to fill these spots. They keep telling us that they will have some one there in 2 weeks. I'm starting to get really frustrated. Cause the store is going downhill. Then I just found out that everyone I work with is making more money than me, even the new hire. Everyone is making at least 8 dollars but i'm only gettin paid 7.50. I have been working at this store longer than everyone except one girl. Who do I talk to about getting my pay increased? I am currently in training to be a 3rd key and i feel that i should be getting paid more than the new people that have just come in.My husband, who works an average of 16/7 managing a store. The greatest bargain at DG is their ability to acquire dedicated store managers with decades of experience a?collegedegree, at poverty level salaries & overwork them. (to prevent paying hourly wages.) It takes a keen corporate eye to recognize their advantage over employees, who've feared or felt the sting of a distressed job/employment market. Keep opening those stores! There's still a lot of unemployed folks desperate to buy their own bile colored shirt & exchange their dignity for your bread crumbs. No more holidays planned with family either since you're only closed ONE day a year and I think it's probably Easter??Pearlz_ B4_Swyne in Alabama?City, Alabama said:?My husband, who works an average of 16/7 managing a store. The greatest bargain at DG is their ability to acquire dedicated store managers with decades of experience a?college?degree, at poverty level salaries & overwork them. (to prevent paying hourly wages.) It takes a keen corporate eye to recognize their advantage over employees, who've feared or felt the sting of a distressed job/employment market. Keep opening those stores! There's still a lot of unemployed folks desperate to buy their own bile colored shirt & exchange their dignity for your bread crumbs. No more holidays planned with family either since you're only closed ONE day a year and I think it's probably Easter??Bravo! You put the company culture across in a nutshell there! That is literally what you get as a DG store manager. Actually it's even worse at DM level - then, you never sleep at all, since you're on call every single second of your entire life.No were open easter and any other holiday the company thinks it can make a dollar off of ! i work my butt off for very little proven myself more time over to upper management than i like to talk about I'm at the point of given up !the company has gone nut's hallow ween,harvest and Christmas at the same time my store is a front to back not a wal mart we don't have the room for this much at one time and our DM fusses about the store not being up to model how can it with so much junk packed into it at once....my god we still have spring and summer junk we still have to get rid of before they dump more crap on us to put out on the floor to cludder thing up even more! high shrink,shop lifter's and the possibility of?beer?and wine in the store in the near future my store is in the middle of a?housing?project's you know what i see for the future of my store ? higher shrink,break In's ,wino's hanging around the parking lot and armed robberies of store employee's that's what i see...Ria1219 said:?evidently you could not perform your job duties correctly and maybe you juse weren't what he thoght you were capable of. Unless you have had several years of retail management experience, you probably weren't up to par. I have hired people that I thought could catch on and jump right in, but, alas, it usually doesn't happen unless they have prior experience. ASM is a big job and it's not easy. My ASM is my right hand, my?assistant, my reminder, my "secretary" LOL, she knows everything there is to know, which encompasses a HUGE list of things. One can usually tell in a week or two if they can cut it or not. it takes a strong team to run a good store. Sorry, hate to burst your bubble.I seriously doubt that! I was a DM for DG for some time and saw a large number of good people get driven into the ground by responsibilities way beyond their job descriptions. This company will literally run you until you have a heart attack. Even in middle management, it was impossible to make a change in company attitude regarding that. You can be a fantastic manager or?assistant manager?and still not "do well" with DG because - here's the secret - they don't really care if you do or not. Just as long as the stores are up to par, have almost no hours logged and are making money with little shrink, the employees can all be on blood pressure medication and losing their families. "Collateral damage" I think is the term - it's another way to say "we're going to make as much money off you as conceivably possible at the expense of your?health, your sanity and even your life." This is why the divide between the rich and poor is growing ever larger day by day.Even in this current climate, I'd never recommend DG to ANYONE. In terms of a corporation, it's one of the most physically and mentally taxing on its employees around. This isn't a challenge, folks - it's a health risk. And I left of my own volition!I have to agree with Anais, perhaps it depends on the division your in, and who your DM is, and how much they are willing to stick their neck out in defense of their people; their GOOD people that is, along with the store manager(s). But I have seen some of what you describe. I have to agree there were/are times when the expecations are unrealistic. I'm no dummy either, I hold an MBA, therefore, I have a pretty good foundation on what is real, what isn't, and what should be expected. This is not my first job in retail either. The last company I worked for all the managers were always grumpy and edgy. Not a good sign. I think all the stores would do well to pay cashiers and support teams better, then they would take their jobs more seriously, (as some don't), and employees would stick around longer. As far as the?health?issues, I have to agree there too, however, as you did, we all have to take responsibility for our own health and piece of mind and know when to say "enough is enough." Yes the job market is tough, but NO job is worth risking your health for...unless you're in the armed forces! But, that's a personal choice with any job! Initially, I was interested in supervisory positions, however, because of the long hours and physical demands this would implicate, I would be unable to fulfill the duties expected of me.As a DM, I would stick my neck out all the time for good people - the problem is, even as DMs, there isn't much power to be had over the company ethics. There are good people in higher positions, too - the problem is, they're overrun by people wanting to make a profit, who continually ignore the wellbeing of their staff. If there are happy people in DG, I would say it is because they are being protected from fallout somewhere along the hierarchy above by someone who is taking considerable stress and probably making themselves sick doing so.The point is, companies do not NEED to function this way. Thankfully, this country is still the home of many firms (most of whom are smaller businesses) who treat their employees with respect and do not "pass the buck" as far as?health?is concerned, because sure, it's every person's individual responsibility to protect his or her own health, but in the current economic environment, most people will allow themselves to be run over to keep their families in a home. As a large employer, it should be DG's responsibility to make sure they are treating their people properly. That's just humanity!As a DM, I would stick my neck out all the time for good people - the problem is, even as DMs, there isn't much power to be had over the company ethics. There are good people in higher positions, too - the problem is, they're overrun by people wanting to make a profit, who continually ignore the wellbeing of their staff. If there are happy people in DG, I would say it is because they are being protected from fallout somewhere along the hierarchy above by someone who is taking considerable stress and probably making themselves sick doing so.The point is, companies do not NEED to function this way. Thankfully, this country is still the home of many firms (most of whom are smaller businesses) who treat their employees with respect and do not "pass the buck" as far as?health?is concerned, because sure, it's every person's individual responsibility to protect his or her own health, but in the current economic environment, most people will allow themselves to be run over to keep their families in a home. As a large employer, it should be DG's responsibility to make sure they are treating their people properly. That's just humanity!I have worked at Dollar?General?for 3 days, 2 at the main store and the third at loan at another store. Dollar General will use you if you are new or inexperienced to take all the falls for their store. While at loan I was accused of stealing money and apparently for getting reprimanded multiple times for using my phone while there were people waiting to check out. None of this stuff happened, the manager was in training and was probably the one stealing money and is using me to save his butt, he just sat in the office the entire time and used his phone and I am pretty sure they were personal phone calls. I am actually going to quit immediately because if they accuse me of stealing money once I know they will do it again, I don't think I can work at a store that will accuse me of stealing. It probably doesn't help that most people that work at the store aren't really that educated and managers and other people feel they can take advantage of them, I am almost done with?college?with a degree in Psychology and it isn't actually that hard to see that people are manipulated all over the store. Do not work at Dollar General whatever you do, people at the store nearest me are on average working about a month before getting fired or just quitting. Everyone I have talked to has told me that they quit after false accusations and unbearable working conditions. There may actually be good people in the higher reaches of the store but apparently most people that actually work in the store are rather retarded and like blaming other people.Well, I see that the store my husband works at isn't the only one having extreme problems and not the only state with DG store problems. He is a third key and the only raise after a year that he has received is when he was promoted to third key. Their store had a horrible manager who after my husband and finally every employee in the store making multiple complaints and signed statements to the DM and RM finally, finally after months of sexual harassment and verbal abuse she subjected the employees to she was fired. Yeah ok, the higher ups still haven't gotten the store back into order like they have continually promised. The store is small and the ex-manager hadn't done any work for at least 9 months even threw away months worth of plan-o-grams and the extreme back stock issue can only be fixed by shipping it out to other stores that can use it; DM and RM keep promising (been months of promising)they are having the back stock transferred out but that still hasn't happened. The head over operations Kathleen has been in this store multiple times promising "this and that" help the company is going to get for them and how the company is going to help the store out. B... S...t! DollarGeneral?is only good at blowing smoke up peoples a...s. The workers are not even paid and industry average for this area they are paid several dollars less for the positions and work entailed. My husband likes the people he works with, they have a good crew. Yet he is trying to find other decent employment because the company has a "use and abuse" mentality that is not good for customers or employees. I think it is sad that a company that makes so much money treats it's employees so horribly. One would think that the company would realize they would make even more money if they treated and paid their employees properly. I hate seeing companies go under now days but this is one that needs to go under because of how horrible they are they don't deserve to stay in?business.I've been with the company for several years now i though I've seen it all! after setting myself apart and trying to prove myself has been in vain the company decided or should i say our DM for this district decided to move a stocker to a key position a stocker that has been working the store for only 2 yrs maybe less ! I've gone to different store's in my area to do things my DM asked without question i worked my butt off at my store without being told how much my hard work meant to them I've been at that location longer than most and been through 3 managers,3 asst managers and 2 third key's during that time i did everything in my power to keep the store up and i would like to think my being there kept some of our regular customers coming back. today might as well be my last day after putting up with the daily crap there i have come to the conclusion that it's not worth it any more . my store is number 10028 in Alexander?city?AL . i no longer care who See's my post on here the DM has told me he knows i post on here the company talks about the employee's about integrity but i don't see corporate having any of their own it's the little guy that stock's runs a register and greets thecustomer?that makes dollar?general?what it is not the regional not the?district manager?not even the store manager it's all the little peon's that work under them that do ! maybe one day the head honchos up in corporate will see that......kevin the uper management DOES NOT CARE! trust me i used the open door policy and it did nothing but hurt me! i was slammed by dm for useing the chain of command. run kevin run! they put me in the?hospital?three times. god bless you and allwho still work,s for dollargeneralgood luck ! all dollar?general?employee,s are only a number! it,s so sad. i hope you get what,s comeing to you. most of all i pray dollar general will pay!Anais Nin in Mankato, Minnesota said:?I seriously doubt that! I was a DM for DG for some time and saw a large number of good people get driven into the ground by responsibilities way beyond their job descriptions. This company will literally run you until you have a heart attack. Even in middle management, it was impossible to make a change in company attitude regarding that. You can be a fantastic manager or?assistant managerand still not "do well" with DG because - here's the secret - they don't really care if you do or not. Just as long as the stores are up to par, have almost no hours logged and are making money with little shrink, the employees can all be on blood pressure medication and losing their families. "Collateral damage" I think is the term - it's another way to say "we're going to make as much money off you as conceivably possible at the expense of your?health, your sanity and even your life." This is why the divide between the rich and poor is growing ever larger day by day.Even in this current climate, I'd never recommend DG to ANYONE. In terms of a corporation, it's one of the most physically and mentally taxing on its employees around. This isn't a challenge, folks - it's a health risk. And I left of my own volition!you are exactly right. i was a manager for 2.5 years and i had a perfect personell record and got fired on the word of one lousy person. my store was two weeks ahead on all work except the daily wind and grind. but that didnt matter. my health went way downhill, i lost over 70 pounds in no time. and no one cared. they tried to knock me out of my unemployment but was given it by the ui appeals examiner when the dm outright acknowledged that she fired me with no evidence soley on the word of asm. the asm wanted my job, but as karma goes, she got bit in the but and failed the mgr test. they have been thru four managers now in less than a year, and are on the fifth one, one who is a close freind of asm.Has anybody else had a problem with the new polices concerning recover of the store? my manager told all of us the new procedures and i looked at her like she was nut's i expressed my concerns about how it would make the store look and how the customers would react to the changes personally i think it would make the store look like crap and I've been drilled about hourly recover of the store in the passed several years and now this change. at this point i think the folks up in corporate have lost their sense's to have a poll to find out what the?customerthinks and to have it come back saying they don't care how the store looks there's something really wrong there ?A neat store is a shopped store,a clean store means a high customer sale's and bigger basket sizes, a messy store has higher shrink and lower sale's and a staff that doesn't care is that what we want corporate should ask that question to its board of directors and regional and?district manager's....This is where i wanted to post ... So I've been with company for bout 1 year 4 months...At first it was awesome job they hired me at 8 dollars an hour(due to my massive amount of experience) which i know 8 dollars is not much but i was jobless at the time and had been for 6 months so just getting back into the workforce i was happy. I started as a simple Stocker working 14 to 18 hours a week of course i wanted more and so i received within a month i was up to 32 hours a week running register and stocking and back stock all the fun stuff ... So i was told that my store was the training store and i had the best store to move up in... which was a plus...after a while of busting my butt i say 3 months i was told i will get a raise and a promotion to a new position of back room manager lol cause i literally got rid of so much back stock so bout 2 months later I finally got my raise of 50 cents which made me happy... then they hired a new girl and Bam she is training for ASM and Bam she becomes one... needless to say after bout 3 months of her working there she quit ...but still i was like uhhhh i want that job but then i was told we would have to stay open till 10 to be able to have 2 ASM at our store... so i was like -_- anyways i finally get offered 3rd key i was like yay more money and this was around thanksgiving so they was like i need to take a Drug test and then i would get my raise ... i was ok but i was handed the keys of the store around January still haven't took a Drug Test nor have i got a raise so i was starting to get ticked then our other 3rd key goes on Pregnancy leave... and they hired this younger girl than me that has NO experience Managing and makes her 3rd key ... while im some what a third key at the time just never took a drug test or gotten my raise lol So now im getting frustrated anyways this new 3rd key girl i mean is just DUMB she will have her boyfriend come in the store and just talk to her everytime me and her are working together ..I have worked for Dollar?General?for almost a year now, and the rules for which corporate have set for me to work in are just plain stupid (for lack of a better word). I stock as well as work the register. The other day my manager called a meeting for all employees. As I sat and listened to what she had to say, I got increasingly upset. In a nutshell, the employees (all employees) are looked upon as thieves. We are to have our purses checked when leaving the store, we are not allowed to take?food?or drink out (that we paid for with a receipt) out of the store after it closes. Let's take a look at the picture, I know Dollar General is not without thieving employees (managers to workers), but they don't see the amount of merchandise leaving that store unpaid for by the customers. I am a?college?student, and I have a crazy schedule with family, school, and work. Thiselectronic?schedule that corporate has so graciously bestowed upon us is also stupid. My hours will be cut according to the guidelines governing the schedule. Now lets get on the working conditions, my manager really does nothing but walk around the store and dictate, she does not really help with any stock on stockdays, and has told us that we are required to put out 1 1/2 rolltainers an HOUR in a 5 hour period. This is WITHOUT HER HELP!! Our stock ranges from 1000 to 1500 pieces a stock day, we get it out with only 3 people working. Acashier?has to now get out 4 totes of overstock an hour. For anyone who is a cashier at Dollar General, this is nearly impossible when customers are constantly checking out and you are the only cashier. When I need a help, I have to call the manager or asst. manager to help, that means me running around the store trying to locate; because, most of the time they don't have the phone on them. I make 7.45 per hour and the work I do is not worth the time and stress, and corporate needs a reality check!!The new?computer?schdeduler: I have personally used this system at?food?lion. It can be manipulated as to what management wants it to be. Managers will use the computer as the excuse as to why you didnt get that many hours. I say stick to the pencil and paper when making a schedule. as for dollar?general, they are abusers of employees and always will be. there is no reality check for dollar general. the only reality check they need but will not happpen is if the store is boycotted by customers in every state it is located in. the other things is a good lawyer who is willing to step up and fight for employees rights in the workplace. i havent found one of those yet and doubt that i will. if there was away to get someone to listen to what has happened to people that has worked at dg and is still working at dg, i would step up and lead. i read every day and hear everyday of someone being done wrong by dg. but hey, if you like to steal, and lie you will be ok and be able to keep your job. that is the lesson i have learned. good employees get fired and reputation ruined without any evidence. do not ever sign anything they want you to sign, dont ever write any statements about anything. dont ever tell what is happening in your store, if you see someone stealing, let them have it, dont say anything. dispute resolution is one sided. they are not on your side. managers will give their total life and family up just to make a dollar. if you are a good manager, they will use policy and procedure to ruin you. they only us p&p to benefit themselves. have a great day.Citibank is the worst company you can work in; they are always?hiring, and there are always lay-offs. Stay away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - unless you want to look for a new job every two years.Anonymous said:?Citibank is the worst company you can work in; they are always?hiring, and there are always lay-offs. Stay away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - unless you want to look for a new job every two years.This is no LIEAnonymous in Forest Hills, New York said:?Citibank is the worst company you can work in; they are always?hiring, and there are always lay-offs. Stay away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - unless you want to look for a new job every two years.Fifth Third?Bank?is just as bad. A truly horrible place to workanonymous in Dallas, Texas said:?This is no LIEyou are so rightTrudy Tucker in Jacksonville, Florida said:?What I love about working there...a steady paycheck and decent benefits. What I hate...you have the constant fear of Citi laying you off or closing your site, because they can pay an Indian 50 cents to do your job. How hard you work has no bearing on this whatsoever. Also, they have numerous people managers that have no clue how to manage people.This is absolutely true about them shipping jobs to India and they do it with almost no forewarning. My department just found out the other day that our functions are being shipped to India. We are getting new functions from a group in another location but those people will either be laid off or re-assigned.I wouldn't say Citi is a bad company because every group is different and every division has its own culture. I do like the group I work with and I've had worse jobs but BEWARE, now is not the best time to come to Citi.I'm in the Nevada lockbox Poetic, do you know whose functions you are getting? I know some of the Baltimore groups and their jobs got transferred to Fort Mill. I hear we may be getting the axe in January due to Image Cash Letter returns. (No more check copies from the FED)I like the department I work in, but waiting for the layoffs is a bit stressful. They let our mortgage team go a couple of months ago.NCnative in Las Vegas, Nevada said:?I'm in the Nevada lockbox Poetic, do you know whose functions you are getting? I know some of the Baltimore groups and their jobs got transferred to Fort Mill. I hear we may be getting the axe in January due to Image Cash Letter returns. (No more check copies from the FED)I like the department I work in, but waiting for the layoffs is a bit stressful. They let our mortgage team go a couple of months ago.We are getting functions from our partners up in NY. I know some of the CitiFinancial stuff got moved from the downtown Baltimore location, I'm not in the CitiFinancial division though. I work in Global Wealth Management.It's just real crazy right now and the bad thing about it is, they're rushing the transfer of functions so much that training and organization is very haphazard. Nothing has been done in an orderly?fashion?or in a way that efficiently streamlines training and transition for us and the Indian employees.I've been working at Citi for the past 3 years. When I first started, it was a decent job. Ever since we got that newCEO?from India, things have progressively gotten worse. Citi's motto use to be that you had a responsibility to the franchise, the clients, and the employees. Its new motto is clients first. Well the responsibility to the employees went out the window. We work so hard, but are treated like we could be out the door any day. Its such a stressful work environment. Now, the all of the managers meet twice weekly to monitor calls in a meeting room. You never know the results from your call, but your manager treats you badly if one of your calls was listened to. They all sit in there and say negative comments about the employee whose call they are listening to. Its not a good environment. It doesn't promote moral. Employees are unhappy and under paid. Citi only gives you a pay raise once a year, and its usually 2%-6%. You don't even qualify for a raise if you manager failed you 4 months out of the year. I overheard my manager speaking with another manager that some of our work is going to be outsourced to India in the next few months. :-/Trudy Tucker in Jacksonville, Florida said:?What I love about working there...a steady paycheck and decent benefits. What I hate...you have the constant fear of Citi laying you off or closing your site, because they can pay an Indian 50 cents to do your job. How hard you work has no bearing on this whatsoever. Also, they have numerous people managers that have no clue how to manage people.You are correct about the managers. The managers lack people skills. They don't motivate employees. They make them feel like they can't do anything right. Its very negative and stressful.I just read that Citi signed a 9 and a half year?contract?to outsource to India.Anonymous in Forest Hills, New York said:?Citibank is the worst company you can work in; they are always?hiring, and there are always lay-offs. Stay away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - unless you want to look for a new job every two years.Agree with you 100% Anonymous. I work for the company in your area. I did not enjoy working at that location and I did not like the staff. They do not value their employees. During the many years I worked there they changed employees very often. I did however enjoy servicing the clients of the?bank. It's the only thing I miss.i work citi as system?analyst?/support specialist for past 2 years as contractor in Florida. they call it professional work day (10 hrs) and forced to be in office from 9 am- 7 pm, however the pay is only for 8 hrs. have any one heard of this ? is its applicable in certain cases if its only your managers will ?MomInJax in Jacksonville, Florida said:?Glad to see someone actually support CITI; there is so much bashing. You made an excellent point that it's a great place for those that want to WORK.?I am considering working for CITI in Jacksonville, FL. What are the typical salaries for the different positions at CITI? What do you LOVE about working there? What do you HATE? Any DETAILED info you can offer would be great!I'm glad you two know everything about Citi and how employees who don't succeed there obviously didn't want to work. I am in Idaho where Citi is undoubtedly the worst place to work. I know at least twenty people who work for the company and I can tell you...In Idaho they are conniving and will lie to employees and falsify records. I know one person who is in arbitration over falsifying records. I would thank your lucky stars you don't live here. It's funny how only two people on here have anything good to say about Citi...but you guys are the ones who work harder than anyone else right? Just wait, you will probably be one of the 11,000 people being terminated this year. I'll come back on and check after you get the newsI worked to the Citi for a year. I worked hard and lot. I didn't have other choice but I didn't mind.?My experience:?-The Citi is about MONEY, MONEY and MONEY.?-I mustn’t trust in my managers. They lie. All my managers lied a lot and liked to be quiet. There was an on-line meeting where a big boss from the USA. He told us, the company needs more IT people then ever before. I knew that's not true because of his body language. Just a few weeks later they decided to?firealmost 11000 employees.?-Motivation is zero.?-You have to wait lot of time to change your position in the company.?-Doesn't matter how good you are. Your carrier depends on the time spent in the bar with the managers.?-Citi is the perfect place for you if you like money more than yourself or you're weak-kneed. Citi likes and only needs droids in almost every departments. If you're not a droid they'll try to make one from you.?-The Citi think everything can be solved with money or intimidation (unemployment and etc). They don't like to pay you more but they do if you're a good droid.?-If you want to make a good carrier at the Citi forget the word: righteousness.?-Citi changes a lot but reacts slowly. They always trying to "improve". The truth is they often have no idea what's going on.?-The Citi doesn't mind if you become invalid because of the working conditions. (I suffering from hearing loss and permanent tinnitus due the low quality of telephone lines. Not all lines are so bad but I received calls from an XY country. This is why I became unemployed.) My story is not uncommon in that department.?Of course, there are lot of companies like the Citi. The working conditions were good except the quality of telephone lines from SOME countries like the XY.?I like my profession and wanted to change before my hearing loss. I didn't succeed.?Good luck!They are lying cheating scum, do not care about perjuring themselves in?court?or the emotional damage their lies cause.Pursue you for money u do not owe, then change the goal posts to suit themselves, this time though they will pay. I would advise no one to work for them or to take out a loan or mortgage with them I have never and I do mean never dealt with such SCUMvntlsnd in Tampa, Florida said:?i work citi as system?analyst/support specialist for past 2 years as contractor in Florida. they call it professional work day (10 hrs) and forced to be in office from 9 am- 7 pm, however the pay is only for 8 hrs. have any one heard of this ? is its applicable in certain cases if its only your managers will ?What is worse is Citi terminates contractors without notice. I was there for 6 months working like a dog for the 'professional day' 9am - 7pm and getting paid only 8 hours. One?evening?after I left work at 7pm, they called me at 7.30pm saying 'dont come from tomorrow, if you have any personal belongings they will be couriered to you'. That was it, no reason given, no notice given - although the industry norm is to give 2 weeks notice and most people do... but Citi is the worse. During my 6 months there, I knew of 3 contractors who were let go like this - calling up after work and asked not to come againCitibank employee for 11 years in Burlington, Kentucky said:?I have worked for Citibank for 11 years. It's a great company. People leave there or get fired because they don't want to do their job. They think that it's better somewhere else. I've seen people quit and come back several times, because guess what you have to actually work at any job! Lazy people won't last long anywhere!!!Okay, I've been working at Citi for almost two years and have witnessed very, very hard working and dedicated people get fired without any good reason. For those such as yourself who continue to write about people being lazy, you are absolutely wrong. What I do see is a lot of favortisim, no room for growth, employees being spread as thin as possible till they are forced to quit or do something out of desperation because leaders have put too much pressure on them to succeed. There is no work/life balance and if you work 5 days a week they expect you to work 7. And still that is not enough. In the past year in a half approximately 150 people were laid off due to so called cut backs and that is not counting the people that were forced to quit. For those of you who love Citi so dearly, answer this question.....why does Citi promote and highly dedicated and loyal employee who worked 6 days a week (even came in on their days off) to then?fire?them 2 weeks later for no apparent good reason. When this employee asked why she was being let go after she worked so hard to get to where she is Citi management told her they need to legally fire her because they have no place for her elsewhere. With that being said, why promote the individual to begin with? Why not wait? Citi is a dysfunctional organization with no structure who does not value their employees. Lastly, it is good to hear that some (few) are having a positive experience within Citi. However, for those seeking employment seek elsewhere I am sure you will have better luck. I did. :)Anonymous in Forest Hills, New York said:?Citibank is the worst company you can work in; they are always?hiring?, and there are always lay-offs. Stay away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - unless you want to look for a new job every two years.I want to tell you why it such a bad place to work: From my first day there my manager tried to?fire?me. After 4 months, he finally succeeded. My separation said I was released because I was an at will employee. They told the state I was fired with cause so I could not collect unemployment.A few weeks later, they said they overpaid me. I kept asking for a detailed?accounting?of the hours and my "pay rate" because my calculation did not match their calculation. The never provided what I had asked for. Instead they told me the because I was paid bi-weekly, they took my salary, divided 52 weeks. Somehow, I calculated that using their calculations instead of 2080 work hours in a year, I was underpaid by over $200. Anyone can do the math to determine their hourly salary.Then I enrolled in COBRA. I have been fighting with them for a year to get my?claims?paid correctly. They insist that since I was older than 65, I must take medicare. Even though I found another job and was working, they would not pay my claims. Medicare did not tell me I had to take part B. I do know that for retirees, the?insurance?cost is less than for others, because claims paid by the insurance plan are then paid as supplemental to Medicare.Does anyone know if any laws were broken by this company. It seems like they believe they can do anything they want, and never get into any?legaltroubles.I wouldn't recommend the company or the products to anyone.Very cut throat inside.MomInJax in Jacksonville, Florida said:?Glad to see someone actually support CITI; there is so much bashing. You made an excellent point that it's a great place for those that want to WORK.?I am considering working for CITI in Jacksonville, FL. What are the typical salaries for the different positions at CITI? What do you LOVE about working there? What do you HATE? Any DETAILED info you can offer would be great!Let me tell you my experience...as a part of a group that came in as contractors we have been strung along for months. Promises made were not promises kept. We make 12k less than at other banks and yes you will work your butt off.Anonymous in Forest Hills, New York said:?Citibank is the worst company you can work in; they are always?hiring?, and there are always lay-offs. Stay away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - unless you want to look for a new job every two years.SUPER TRUE....they are not lying I literally lost ,my job in less than 90 days I relocated out of state and everything very bad place to work. Avoid it if u can BUT I understand ppl have bills 2 pay . Always hring and firing off the petty-ist stuffShould have did my research b4 I took itThe one in Eagle, Idaho said:?I'm glad you two know everything about Citi and how employees who don't succeed there obviously didn't want to work. I am in Idaho where Citi is undoubtedly the worst place to work. I know at least twenty people who work for the company and I can tell you...In Idaho they are conniving and will lie to employees and falsify records. I know one person who is in arbitration over falsifying records. I would thank your lucky stars you don't live here. It's funny how only two people on here have anything good to say about Citi...but you guys are the ones who work harder than anyone else right? Just wait, you will probably be one of the 11,000 people being terminated this year. I'll come back on and check after you get the newsI just got fired from the Meridian location and couldn't agree more! They feed you lies from day one about pay and hours to lure you into taking the job, only to find out that their take on 'work life balance' only applies when it's beneficial for them as a company. Did I mention they let me go the day before I started my vacation that I had been saving up for a year and a half, and of course they don't pay out on saved time off. Lesson learned.It's time to be at war with these staffing agencies and companies that keep wasting job seekers time with their antics. Let's fulfill these boards up because we have a voice and it needs to be heard through searches of?Google, Bing, and Yahoo. It's time to wake America up.Months ago, I started a discussion telling my peers to avoid Essex Temporary Services. I will now try to boost the topic back up the forum before someone else become victims.Let's start blacklisting these?HR?reps RIGHT NOW! The unemployment rate in this country is at an all time high. Congress can't keep extending unemployment benefits...they need to be on these companies behinds. WE NEED OUR e on...name names of people posting these fake job postings and using fake company names to play with our minds.I think the ones that do it the most in my area are:Office Team / Robert Half?Staffing NowRobert Half/Office Team?Aerotek?AjilonI'm just as frustrated with companies who never contact qualified applicants and continue to post the same positions over and over. In my area, these include Covidien, Crocs, Raytheon, Constant Contact. Do you keep applying and hope someone eventually actually reads a resume?I used to work in the building of NorthShore Staffing, and before I started my last job I registered with them. This was when the economy was not in a recession. At the end of the interview she told me that she will be getting something in my salary range next week and to follow up with her then. How do you know what you will get in next week? Of course that was a lie, as she never called me for a single thing not even for a short term temp assignment.When I started working in the building I saw everyday they alwasy had someone waiting for the recruiter. Some days when I got to the office before 8am they had people waiting in the lobby for North Shore Staffing to open. As the economy turned into a recession they had people still coming in, and I thought to myself how on earth can they have jobs for people on a daily basis. I do see them post ads and the wording is identical, which tells me that they have a fake ad running. Seeing this I will not register with them, could not even help in better times, certainly will not help now. Just come in test and they never call you back, even when you call them, you go straight to voice mail. If I told them hey don't put me in voice mail, I have a job order that I need filled ASAP, I bet that when the operator transfers me someone will pick up that phone. If they know that one is busy they will find someone to take that job order.Kforce and Robert Half. Extremely unprofessional.These agencies also know that they can offer you a much lower wage on the temp side then report you to unemployment if you refuse saying you refused work.?Having to go on a 2-4 hour interview and meet with 4 people on the clients side for a 15 an hour TEMP job is something a job that would have paid 35 an hour a few years agoI can agree with you on KForce. They contacted me once about a long term temp assignment, actually went on the interview for that job, and while setting up the interview we played phone tag a few times, but he always picked up the phone or called me back shortly after, not when I try to call I always get his voice mail, and I don't leave messages. I call from a career center, so he really doesn't know by the caller ID who I am. If anything it would show up like an employer is trying to call him, which is why I call from there vs my phone just to see if he would pickup. When they have nothing for you they don't even want to talk to you even if they have to tell you "no, I don't have anything for you today". Just trying to keep him fresh for when a new temp job does come in, I may have a shot at it.Agencies like Robert Half, Appleone, and Kforce needs to be put out of?business.There also needs to be some mandates passed concerning checking?credit?history.DollyParton83 in Hackensack,NJ, New Jersey said:?There also needs to be some mandates passed concerning checking?credithistory.Tully's, Elevee, Teavana, In n Out...all these places interviewed me and used Ageism on me. Apple One Staffing here in Northridge, CA, all talk, NO action...said they had TONS of Jobs for me w/my experience (I have also done Office Work) and my phone never rang despite me calling to check back every few days. I kept on getting a major run-around.Recruiter Source...just a portal to gain info so you can be spammed.I agree about the credit....it looks as though I'm having an Offer falling through because I don't use credit cards, and all of my old debt is over, 5-10 years old so so although I have a Score, I don't have History according to Trans Union, the agency this potential Company uses for Background Checks. I am *extremely* upset...extremely but there's nothing I can do.So they are telling you that you are a "bad risk" because you pay with cash?? Hey I would rather be able to pay for what I need and can afford with cash than charge things and fall in the hole because I was living beyond my means. What are they looking for anything just not to hire? You have the skills, did not file for bankruptcy you should be good. Does this job involve handling cash that they are worried about you do not have a score? To get a?credit?score go to the dollar store and charge a dollar purchase and then pay it off at the end of the month. Do little purchases like this and over a year you should have a great score...hey you can pay that $1 balance every month. Better than charging hundreds and only pay the minimum each month.Kim in Chicago, Illinois said:?So they are telling you that you are a "bad risk" because you pay with cash?? Hey I would rather be able to pay for what I need and can afford with cash than charge things and fall in the hole because I was living beyond my means. What are they looking for anything just not to hire? You have the skills, did not file for bankruptcy you should be good. Does this job involve handling cash that they are worried about you do not have a score? To get a?credit?score go to the dollar store and charge a dollar purchase and then pay it off at the end of the month. Do little purchases like this and over a year you should have a great score...hey you can pay that $1 balance every month. Better than charging hundreds and only pay the minimum each month.The Job does involve handling cash; so maybe that's why, who knows.DollyParton83 in Hackensack,NJ, New Jersey said:?It's time to be at war with these staffing agencies and companies that keep wasting job seekers time with their antics. Let's fulfill these boards up because we have a voice and it needs to be heard through searches of?Google, Bing, and Yahoo. It's time to wake America up.Months ago, I started a discussion telling my peers to avoid Essex Temporary Services. I will now try to boost the topic back up the forum before someone else become victims.Let's start blacklisting these?HR?reps RIGHT NOW! The unemployment rate in this country is at an all time high. Congress can't keep extending unemployment benefits...they need to be on these companies behinds. WE NEED OUR e on...name names of people posting these fake job postings and using fake company names to play with our minds.ASAP in Orlando, FL.?Adecco?in OrlandoHave had friends/family w/good luck w/RObert Half, but down here they were useless....Robert HalfWhen they called me they told me that they had jobs for me. I go in an do the paperwork and testing in a room with 5 people! The receptionist came in every so often to set another one up and with the people going in and out there were a lot of distractions. The day I went was right after a big snow that we had, so I didn't think many would be in on a day like that, boy was I wrong. I heard that only 2 people cancelled due to the snow. They told me if I would lower my expectations, then they would have more opportunites for me. So they can make bigger profits. I didn't lower my minimum that I already stated, as I already have lowered my minimum considerably to accept temp work. You guessed it not a single assignment. I heard that they pull people from assignments at short notice. Probably to put someone else there so they cannot collect UE benefits from Robert Half if they have been on previous assignments. If you get one assignment they probably will give you priority in the next assignment to keep you going. You refuse that $8.00 assignment and your beneifts are cut for refusing work. It probably is less, but it most likely is "suitable work" and UE will side with the employer.AVOID THE LASALLE NETWORK!!!?Yelp has a lot of complaints on them?/the-lasalle-network-chicago?I also had a bad experience with them wasting several hours of my time.Their recruiters have no basic understanding of the industries that they recruit for. She could not answer basic questions about the company or the position that I was supposedly interviewing with her for. At this point, I'm not sure if it actually exists because I was told they passed on my resume. I was 200% qualified. Whatever. She also told me that personality type is more important to her clients than knowledge and experience. Wow. Just wow.Michael Page and Robert Half aren't much better.casey45 in Alabama said:?Apple One is really bad.I agree.The staffing agencies have more applicants than there are jobs. Remember the employer is paying both you and the agency for full or temp staffing. In a tight economy most delay making decisions.The advantage to the temp is that when the company no longer requires the temp they can stop the assignment and there are no issues such as unemployment, benefits, severance etc...The best way to get a job now is to use the internet () and . to develop networking. Spend Mon - Thurs on the job search 4-6 hours. More than that and you will burn out. Take Fridays off as the chance of a reply are zero. Divide the day between target company search and open search internet. Try to find network connections to gain the in. Also develop your brand and cover letter prior to hitting the street. "Known yourself". Also try the informational interview appraoch.Back in the days before the internet people would just walk into an agency fill out an application take a typing test and they started looking for jobs that had, made phone calls to set up interviews, you went, and chances of getting hired were much greater. Now they call people in take not only the typing test, but Word, Excel, Powerpoint and sometimes stupid tests like spelling and math (without the calculator). Then they tell you they will call when something comes in that you are a good match for. I have never been contacted my most, not even for a short-term temporary assignment. Gee I must of done that bad on my tests and don't have enough experience to do any of the jobs. Or is it that my salary requirements are just a tad above what they want to pay after they consider their fees. They should only run an ad IF they get an order in that has a special software skill or other rare training is needed. Not just for a?general officedata entry?job that hundreds will apply for. Then people would put more faith in staffing firms. They used to place quite a few of my former co workers, now that is not the case.Hi Joanna?Thank you for your comment. I was starting to believe that I am the only person in the world that can't find a job. I am terribly depressed and feel so worthless. And here it is, yet another Sunday and I am searching the internet for a job. I was laid off in December of 2008 and have registered with countless staffing agencies and landed only one assignment in all this time that lasted only one month. I have a solid work history with eleven years of service as an?admin?and still nothing.?I only register with these agencies when I see an actual ad posted for openings they say they have.?I go through all the paperwork, testing and interviewing and nothing. They say they will get in touch if something comes up.?So, my question is, who got the job or jobs they posted the ads for? I'm starting to believe there were no jobs and they are just?stockpiling candidates? But what do they gain by doing that??I have also noticed that now that I have been out of work for over a year I am getting fewer and fewer responses.?When I was filling out paperwork at the last agency I went to I was sitting in front of the receptionist's desk and the first question she asked callers was "have you worked in the past year?"?Plus, the interviewer told me that many of their clients won't consider someone who has been out of work for over a year.?So how are those of us laid off due to the recession supposed to get back to work? I am a single mom with no other source of income and my unemployment benefits are running out.Names of just a few bogus agencies in my area:?NES Staffing,?Adecco, JobPro, Staffmark, PDS Tech, Robert Half, Kelly Career Network, Lauren Staffing, Horizon Staffing Servicessearching in Des Plaines, Illinois said:?AVOID THE LASALLE NETWORK!!!??Yelp has a lot of complaints on them?/the-lasalle-network-chicago?I also had a bad experience with them wasting several hours of my time.Their recruiters have no basic understanding of the industries that they recruit for. She could not answer basic questions about the company or the position that I was supposedly interviewing with her for. At this point, I'm not sure if it actually exists because I was told they passed on my resume. I was 200% qualified. Whatever. She also told me that personality type is more important to her clients than knowledge and experience. Wow. Just wow.Michael Page and Robert Half aren't much better.It is so nice to finally vent about LaSalle Network! After testing and interviewing me for 2 hours, the recruiter told me he picked me, along with 4 other people, out of a stack of 800 resumes to interview with an educational company from Canada opening up an office in Schaumburg. He said he picked me because of my skills and my longevity at all of the companies I have worked for over the past 30 years. He said I would hear from him within a couple of days. After calling him every week for about 6 weeks to find out when I would be interviewed, he told me not to bother him again, he will contact me when he knows something. That was a year ago. Never heard from him.Also, Robert Half/Office Team told me I had tested in the 95 percentile range on skills. Even with my excellent skills, I have never been able to get any client interviews through them. I picked them because they advertise their specialty is placing 50+ workers.Times certainly have changed. Over the course of my career, I have worked 3 temp positions whereby the employer hired me permanently because they were so happy with my work ethic. Now I can't even get an interview for a temp position.All staffing firms are the same, none of them has anything other than when they need someone for a special project. I once received a call for a project on a Sunday for packing books after a trade show, where they need many people.If you go to Robert Half expect to be there most of an afternoon. They give you tests with their testing system and you are not in the roon alone. The staff is coming in and out as they have called tons of people the same day to test.DollyParton83 in Hackensack,NJ, New Jersey said:?It's time to be at war with these staffing agencies and companies that keep wasting job seekers time with their antics. Let's fulfill these boards up because we have a voice and it needs to be heard through searches of?Google, Bing, and Yahoo. It's time to wake America up.Months ago, I started a discussion telling my peers to avoid Essex Temporary Services. I will now try to boost the topic back up the forum before someone else become victims.Let's start blacklisting these?HR?reps RIGHT NOW! The unemployment rate in this country is at an all time high. Congress can't keep extending unemployment benefits...they need to be on these companies behinds. WE NEED OUR e on...name names of people posting these fake job postings and using fake company names to play with our minds.Employment Agencies are much different now than they were 20-25 years ago...they are now horrible. You usually apply online and that way it's very impersonal and they can hire a local-yocal with a Master's Degree (because they can't find any other job...I know this to be true) to review the online resumes. They accept resumes from "fake" job ads so that they can impress their clientele. "Please book your employment needs through our agency as we have an unlimited number of resources for you to choose from..." I'm sure that's the tactic of many agencies.Employment agencies sure are a night and day difference. For those of you that have never worked with one, let me tell you that they call you up and tell you that they are very impressed with your resume and want to meet you to discuss opportunites that they have that would fit your background and skills, then when you arrive they put you in front of acomputer?and tell you that you have to take a test of about 30 questions on MS Word, Excel, Powerpoint, a typing speed test sometimes as long as 5 minutes, and when you are done with that they talk with you about your past jobs for about 15 mins and tell you that they just has a job, but it was filled yesterday, I just learned that the candidate accepted the offer, I didn't want to say that yesterday just in case the offer was not accepted. Today I think that 99.9% of the time and offer is extended it is accepted or counter offered. Just look at the number of people who are on long term unemployment benefits (over 6 months) and it is growing. Take a look at any week you want even going back to the last recession, we NEVER had over 5 million people out of work that long. I have looked at the reports from a few months ago and they were lower then. Agencies don't have the jobs, and when they do they have stiff competition for each and every one!ows.unemploy/claims_arch.aspJulie Ann in Park Ridge, Illinois said:?Employment agencies sure are a night and day difference. For those of you that have never worked with one, let me tell you that they call you up and tell you that they are very impressed with your resume and want to meet you to discuss opportunites that they have that would fit your background and skills, then when you arrive they put you in front of a?computer?and tell you that you have to take a test of about 30 questions on MS Word, Excel, Powerpoint, a typing speed test sometimes as long as 5 minutes, and when you are done with that they talk with you about your past jobs for about 15 mins and tell you that they just has a job, but it was filled yesterday, I just learned that the candidate accepted the offer, I didn't want to say that yesterday just in case the offer was not accepted. Today I think that 99.9% of the time and offer is extended it is accepted or counter offered. Just look at the number of people who are on long term unemployment benefits (over 6 months) and it is growing. Take a look at any week you want even going back to the last recession, we NEVER had over 5 million people out of work that long. I have looked at the reports from a few months ago and they were lower then. Agencies don't have the jobs, and when they do they have stiff competition for each and every one!ows.unemploy/claims_arch.aspThanks for your comment Julie Ann. It is a comfort to know that I am not the only one getting the runaround from these staffing agencies. I have eleven years of experience as anadmin?with an excellent employment record and references and have been out of work due to layoff since Dec 2008 with only one temp assignment from all of them.?It keeps getting worse, IMO, not better. Now they are weeding you out if you have been out of work for more than a year.?So how are we supposed to get off of unemployment and back to work??I sure hope they extend our unemployment again!!!!!With the high volumne of resumes that recruiters receive they can be picky. They seem to always look for a reason to reject people and that is something that they use. So as the amount of people unemployed grows that probably will become a bigger issue down the road. Even when the economy was good there were still people who were out for more than a year for other reasons such as being a?full timemother, and they jumped into the workforce with old outdated skills, but back then employers were much more willing to train people, and I have worked with some of them and they turned out to be excellent workers and learned quickly. Now they expect the world from people and if you are not a self starter they do not want to talk to you. It is sad. It is going to take several years before unemployment gets anywhere near levels they were pre 2008.how about actually being told "the company has hired you for the job, we'll let you know when the start date is", and not hear from them a few days later. so then you call them to see if they found out your "start date", then they say, "oh we still haven't heard from them yet", and have this go back and forth for almost month until they tell you, "we'll call you to let you know when"? thats what happened to me back in October of 2006 from a staffing agency, dont remember the name though. And I never got that call to let me know of any "start date", mind you.funny thing is, I usually had good luck with agencies. The last job I had was through Devon & Devon Staffing in 2008. Yep, no job, 2 years strong!F@$K YOOOU RECESSION!! lol =)Take a look at jobs posted online with the major boards what do you see? Office Team, Robert Half, Staffing Now, Aijion etc. They post the same ads. When you come to the office you are sitting in waiting room with 3 or 4 others. That is just when you are there, imagine that this goes on every day. What does that tell you? That is all they do all day is talk to people. What did you make at xyz company? Why did you leave? What is your ideal job? The stories are all the same? You call them and ask if anything new came in and the reply is "no". I will call one of my agencies today and I will ask her, "Do you ever have any jobs"? I have registered with her last summer and think that her office is BS. I don't plan on wasting my dimes calling her after this one, the answer will always be the same.I can only comment on Robert Half since that is the only company listed I have had experience with. The majority of these job postings are speculation. The?account?managers at Robert Half are expected to have X amount of job postings whether or not they actually have the jobs. The recruiters are expected to meet an steep interview quota which leaves them absolutely no room to manage long term, meaningfulbusiness?relationships. The company is so consumed by its processes and so-called best practices that the human element has completey disappeared from its business. I know you may get frustrated with the recruiters but please understand that these people are treated horribly, manipulated, and managed through bullying and intimidation. If you want to avoid getting frustrated, don't waste your time with this company. If they do post a real job, you will most likely find it posted by the company looking for new talent too.I don't understand why management requires them to go through such a fake process. If they were honest and told you that they did not have anything, then maybe more people would have trust in them. All the time and effort in interviewing candidates does not bring income to them...the thing that any?business?needs to survive.Kim - I'll do my best to accurately share what I personally witnessed at Robert Half. First of all, they look at candidates as lead sources. You will often hear them ask where you have been so that they do not jeopardize any of your opportunities. In reality, they are writing down the company names, previous managers, co-workers, etc. so that they can start calling them the minute you walk out of the office. Also, the middle management at Robert Half spends the majority of their day reviewing activity reports so that they can figure out who to put in their crosshairs for the day/week/month. This is great motivation to keep interviewing people whether or not you believe you can ever work with them. Robert Half has achieved a whopping 1.5% market share in a $200 Billion industry. Don't forget this stellar perfomance is from a company that almost invented the staffing industry over 60 years ago.Joanna in Chicago, Illinois said:?Back in the days before the internet people would just walk into an agency fill out an application take a typing test and they started looking for jobs that had, made phone calls to set up interviews, you went, and chances of getting hired were much greater. Now they call people in take not only the typing test, but Word, Excel, Powerpoint and sometimes stupid tests like spelling and math (without the calculator). Then they tell you they will call when something comes in that you are a good match for. I have never been contacted my most, not even for a short-term temporary assignment. Gee I must of done that bad on my tests and don't have enough experience to do any of the jobs. Or is it that my salary requirements are just a tad above what they want to pay after they consider their fees. They should only run an ad IF they get an order in that has a special software skill or other rare training is needed. Not just for a?general office?data entry?job that hundreds will apply for. Then people would put more faith in staffing firms. They used to place quite a few of my former co workers, now that is not the case.Joanna: I agree with you a hundred percent. I didn't hear about staffing agencies until thirty years ago. I would say up to about the early 90's, you can just make an appointment and go right in and register. Nowadays they want to see your resume first. They don't want to bring you in unless that have a position for you in which you would be "the right fit". They've literally become the?Human Resources?Department for these places.Whenever they ask what your salary requirements are, I would always ask them how much the job is paying first. Sometimes they'll tell you: sometimes they won't. I know why they ask for salary requirements. Because they only want to pay what they can afford to pay you, and they weed out people who are asking for too much money.When I was last out of work from July to October last year, I contacted just a few staffing agencies. But I let them know right up front that I am on Social Security Disability, that I can only work part-time, and I can't make more than a certain amount each month in order to keep my benefts. Some of them don't even get any part-time jobs in: they mainly get full-time. In this case, I just tell them that I'm better off going directly to the companies instead.Last Friday (April 16), I had a brief interview at Today's Office Professionals in downtown Philadelphia, but the position they had just didn't suit me. Otherwise, most of theese agencies in the high-level level and/or are very specialized. There's very few of them that take all skills.I know that you're frustrated with staffing agencies, but they have to please the clients. After all, the client is paying for their services, and they want the "right fit". And that's the bottom line. These companies probably pay a hefty fee to these agencies to get the people that they want.Next time staffing agencies ask where you have been and contact numbers, give them some numbers like the BetterBusiness?Bureau or?Fraud?Hotline. See how much they will network their way in with them!Discusted Candidate in Chicago, Illinois said:?Next time staffing agencies ask where you have been and contact numbers, give them some numbers like the Better?Business?Bureau or?FraudHotline. See how much they will network their way in with them!I know how you feel about that. The reason that staffing agencies ask where you've applied to previously is because they don't want to send you to a company that you've already applied to or even interviewed with.Another thing this. When you fill out your employment history, they will ask whether or not the company has used a staffing agency. Personally, I think they do this so they can generate new business.If you ever gave them the number to the Better Business Bureau and the Fraud Hotline, they probably would call there to see if they need any help.I'm once again naming another staffing agency, Express Personnel, as another agency that is on my personal DO-NOT-CALL list.Today (Monday, April 26), I saw a job that they posted on this website for making outbound calls. The ad said it would last two weeks, but when I called them, the guy that I spoke with said that it only last for two days (Wednesday, April 28 and Thursday, April 29). He also found my name in the system from a few years ago about a negative experience. I told him that I don't want to do?business?with them again and I hung up on him.Staffing agencies should not keep applications on file for several years. Six months or one year is enough. And besides, it wouldn't have been worth my time anyway. I told him that I need something that's a little bit longer. Their loss is somebody else's gain.Jojae: Is that staffing agency you went to living in the Twilight Zone or something? Since you're a single mother, are they still living in the days of June Cleaver?Don't these agencies realize that we are in a recession? Millions of people in this country are out of work. Some of them have been out for about a year. And yet this agency won't take anybody unless they've worked for a year?Come on now; that's rediculous. It's not your fault that you've been out of work. It's not your fault that you lost your last jobs because the company either went out of?business, downsized, or started shipping their jobs overseas. Or that you have?children?to take care of, and you probably can't afford?child care. You may have went back to school for a whole year to get your skills upgraded. You probably were sick and had to have surgery. You probably had personal and family matters to take care of.It's really none of their business. They should consider you if you've had previous experience in what they want; regardless whether or not you've worked for a whole year. I mean, things do happen. If I had went to that agency, I would have told them that it was none of their businessNanlisa: Thanks for your comment. I appreciate it very much. I feel so alone and worthless these days. Yes, what I said is the absolute truth. The receptionist's first question for callers after "Hello" was "Have you worked in the past year?"?Plus, the interviewer made the statement that many of their clients won't consider anyone out of work for a year. I just sat there and looked at her thinking "where have you been this past year, in a bubble?" They really act as if they don't know about the recession. It's infuriating. After the interview and all that paperwork and testing they told me to call the next day. I did so and they said they didn't have anything at the moment and I should email them every few days to check in. I actually cried since I went to them in response to an actual job posting they had put out. I've been emailing them twice a week for over a month and nothing.?I'm originally from Bucks County, PA. I miss it down there!Jojae: I didn't know that you're originally from Bucks County. How about that? I am a Delaware County native (I was born in Darby and raised in Folcroft).I'm sorry to hear that that agency made you upset. I'm just curious. Which agency told you that you had to work for a year before they consider you? Did you speak up and let them know about this? Don't let them walk all over you. The next time you talk to them, or even email them, tell them how upset you were over this. Ask to speak to the agency manager. Let him or her know how poorly you were treated. And really give it to them. Who are they to judge? Are any of those recruiters there single parents themselves? Were they too out of work at one time? Staffing agency recruiters should get down on their knees and thank God that they have a job to come to every day; when millions of people in this country, incuding myself, don't.Let me know how you did. I hope you find something soon.Office Team has been practically all over the Internet with job openings.Staffing Now, Source Personnel, Pathfinders, and TRC Staffing Services have all run ads for the same job: which is recruiting doctors for teleconferences. I have had previous experience in recruiting doctors for focus group discussions and telephphone interviewers. Their client also wants acollege?degree, which I don't have.I called Staffing Now and Pathfinders, and they wall want to see a resume first. Source Personnel doesn't do any?hiringfor part-time (which is what I'm looking for).Office Team, Careers USA, and Express Personnel also keep running ads for recruiting local?business?people to participate in a charity fundraiser. I can't believe that there are two or more staffing agencis?advertising?and recruiting for the same job.Jojae: I meant to ask you this. Have you ever applied directly to the companies instead of going through an agency? Try going directly to the companies instead of the staffing agencies, and see what happens.It's OK to be depressed because you're out of work, but you're not worthless. There's a job out there for you, Just hang in there. Don't even waste your time with BS agencies. Try going directly to the companies and see what happens.Good luck to you.DollyParton83 in Hackensack,NJ, New Jersey said:?It's time to be at war with these staffing agencies and companies that keep wasting job seekers time with their antics. Let's fulfill these boards up because we have a voice and it needs to be heard through searches of?Google, Bing, and Yahoo. It's time to wake America up.Months ago, I started a discussion telling my peers to avoid Essex Temporary Services. I will now try to boost the topic back up the forum before someone else become victims.Let's start blacklisting these?HR?reps RIGHT NOW! The unemployment rate in this country is at an all time high. Congress can't keep extending unemployment benefits...they need to be on these companies behinds. WE NEED OUR e on...name names of people posting these fake job postings and using fake company names to play with our minds.CyberCoders; MRI Recruiters - all of them; The Ladders; Don't use any of these agencies. They are either scam jobs or no one follow-ups with you - EVER!!The other thing is, many of these recruiters and staffing agencies have NO IDEA?what their clients want. One firm I went to (Express Personnel) only deals in $10 or less per hour jobs. They have no idea (and aren't?creative?enough) to advise people on?executive?positions or even places to refer you.Robert Half starts out at $8 and hour and told me if I lower my expectations my chances of getting assignments would be greater. She should have stated that her commision would be greater. I asked her if she was on commission and she said NO. Even lied about that! Well the mimimum wage that I would accept is not $8 hour. How can I live on that?allison in San Francisco, California said:?CyberCoders; MRI Recruiters - all of them; The Ladders; Don't use any of these agencies. They are either scam jobs or no one follow-ups with you - EVER!!Thank you! This helps me while job searching, to avoid the scams!Inspector?in Missouri said:?The other thing is, many of these recruiters and staffing agencies have NO IDEA?what their clients want. One firm I went to (Express Personnel) only deals in $10 or less per hour jobs. They have no idea (and aren't?creative?enough) to advise people on?executive?positions or even places to refer you.If I were you, I'd reject their social invitation. They very briefly employed me, sent me out to a client company, and their employment/supervisory coordinators came within a short distance of me and other employees, and began screaming, shouting, yelling at us and used inappropriate speaking voices for a professional?business?office setting.Everyone around me keeps telling me I'm very professional, friendly, a good leader and treat others well, so my ? is why do these companies in my?community?keep?hiring, retaining and promoting bad people like this?K-Force gives me the runaround.I went on an interview that they sent me to last year and recently I noticed an ad similar to that interview, and I mentioned it to them and they told me that they have "another opening". The company was not that big, so it tells me that either that job was never filled, or the person in that job either quit or got fired. If that job opening does exisit, or they could be doing the usual, getting people to respond to a fake ad. But the fact that I interviewed for that job in the past it telling me that it was a real job (at least before), and they are now just pulling an old ad to re run.Aerotek?is scum! They called me last week to "see where I was in my job search, and want to know a better idea of what I was looking for" What a line! You already know what I am looking for, just call me with a real job instead of just "updating" your records. Are you just checking if I have temped anywhere so you can call the manager and try to get your foot in the door when another agency is already established and has been using temps they are satisfied with? Next time I get a call like that from a recruiter, I will just cut in and say. So you already have my file in front of you, tell me about this job you want to send my resume to? I know they will turn it back around and want to know about my job history, and want to be walked through my entire job history again. Why don't you just get right to it and ask my for my updated references, as that is your one and only reason for the call!I have been off for almost a year and have seen the same jobs posted by the same staffing orgs. over and over. It has gotten to the point that as I read the job description I know who the agency is before I am done reading. There is no way these are real job openings. In the Cleveland area the culprets are PPS,GTR,CyberCoding,Aerotech and Champion. Thanks to the people on the job forums,I don't even bother with these agencies anymore.One agency here in the Philadelphia area, TRC Staffing, has always been running ads for making outbound calls to doctors and other medical professionals to set them up for conferences. I have emailed my resume to them plenty of times. I've told them that I've had experience in making outbound marketing and research calls to doctors, and that I can only work part-time because of my SSDI.Yesterday afternoon (July 8), I called them, got their voicemail, and left a message on it for a return call. Then just after 7 o'clock, I got a call from Chari and she said that the company hires for full-time; and not part-time. I told her that I'm better off going directly to the companies, and then she said that I "may not be the right fit for them" (or something else like that).Dan in Willoughby, Ohio: I agree with you a hundred percent. I try my best to avoid these staffing agencies. Don't get me wrong; there are some good ones as well. But I'm not dealing with any of the ones that just simply play dilly-dally games.DollyParton83 in Hackensack,NJ, New Jersey said:?It's time to be at war with these staffing agencies and companies that keep wasting job seekers time with their antics. Let's fulfill these boards up because we have a voice and it needs to be heard through searches of?Google, Bing, and Yahoo. It's time to wake America up.Months ago, I started a discussion telling my peers to avoid Essex Temporary Services. I will now try to boost the topic back up the forum before someone else become victims.Let's start blacklisting these?HR?reps RIGHT NOW! The unemployment rate in this country is at an all time high. Congress can't keep extending unemployment benefits...they need to be on these companies behinds. WE NEED OUR e on...name names of people posting these fake job postings and using fake company names to play with our minds.Anyone know of these companies in Texas? Namely Dallas??? Or am I the only Texan looking for a job = ) Help!NES is garbage here in Georgia.TRC are liars: they said they contatced my references and they all had great things to say about me at an interview...after the interview I called one of references to thank them for giving good info. My reference didn't know what I was talking about. I called all my other references tocheck...none of them recieved a call. I was SO mad. I can't believe companies get away with this sh*t.IBS always wants your information but to never give you a job.Global Insight has NO IDEA what position they are interviewing me for a and hence doesn't care to contact you back.There are so many garbage staff companies out there... I hope they all go bankrupt. Gah.DollyParton83 in Hackensack,NJ, New Jersey said:?It's time to be at war with these staffing agencies and companies that keep wasting job seekers time with their antics. Let's fulfill these boards up because we have a voice and it needs to be heard through searches of?Google, Bing, and Yahoo. It's time to wake America up.Months ago, I started a discussion telling my peers to avoid Essex Temporary Services. I will now try to boost the topic back up the forum before someone else become victims.Let's start blacklisting these?HR?reps RIGHT NOW! The unemployment rate in this country is at an all time high. Congress can't keep extending unemployment benefits...they need to be on these companies behinds. WE NEED OUR e on...name names of people posting these fake job postings and using fake company names to play with our minds.Mine are Robert Half?International, Accountemps, OfficeTeam, and?Accounting?Prinicples. Just to name a few.DollyParton83 in Hackensack,NJ, New Jersey said:?Is anyone here having problems with the staffing agencies in New York?Michael Page, avoid at all costs. You will waste your time, everytime I go to MP I am neglected by no response after the interview. Thanks for wasting my $ and time going to the interview for nothing.While it's true that all the big names in staffing agencies (Adecco, Manpower, TEKserve, Volt, Apple 1, Act-1, Randstad, Robert Half and their various subsidiaries, including OfficeTeam and the like) are pure garbage, there are a few individual offices of theirs that are good, as well as a few small players in staffing agencies that are good, too, but you'll be hard-pressed to find them.You have to remember: these agencies have a conflict of interest: that is, their first priority is not to you, but to their client company; and in front of that is their own self-interest. You are the last thing on their list, which is why when push comes to shove in a dispute or disagreement with you and them or their client, you will always lose.All these firms post fake jobs that aren't available, because they're looking for a pool of talent to choose from if and when their client needs such people. But more often than not, those jobs they're planning for never materialize. You're better off contacting the companies you are interested in working for directly instead of using a staffing firm.I was once terminated abruptly at a job after 3 days because one of my co-workers made an accusation that was completely false and unsubstantiated by anyone else. As a result, they refused to pay me for my time, which is a crime in my state, so I took them to?court?and made it perfectly clear that if they didn't settle on my terms before the judge ruled in my favor, I would take that judgement and fax it to every one of their client companies, as well as Dun & Bradstreet, which would then show up on their?credit?report.You'd be surprised how fast they settled, and for how much. They could have avoided all of that by not taking unsupported?claims?as fact, and by paying me as required by state and?federal?law.The only way to change their behavior is to punish them by not patronizing them, and press your local and federal legislators to crack down on them.Totally agree that all staffing agencies are maggots. I learned that years ago from personal experience and let them be. When they misrepresented a job ad and not mentioned there that they were the agency middleman, not the actual company, I used to tell them off on the phone. I would never go to an interview with an agency, recession or not, as all they do is waste your time, for all the above-mentioned reasons you just stated. Kudos to you for going after the company what unlawfully terminated you. Not paying for someone's time is a crime in just about every state. Again, I applaud you for sticking it to them. When normal logical reasoning fails, the monetary threat always works.When I was out of work back in 1998, I went to register with TAC Temps in downtown Philadelphia. Four years earlier, I only did one assignment through them. It was a?data entryposition at a?health care?company in suburban Philadelphia. The assignment was originally supposed to have been a month, but it only lasted a day because they weren't getting that much work in as they had anticipated.Anyway, all of a sudden, a few weeks after I registered, they said that they could not use me anymore because I refused to accept the fact that the assignment was over, and that I was escorted from the building. THIS WAS NOTHING BUT AN DOWN-AND-OUTRIGHT LIE! THIS NEVER EVER HAPPENED! I even left them one nasty after-hours message on their answering machine saying that I don't deal with liars!I don't think this office is in?business?anymore. Hallelujah!Here's another staffing agency doosy for you. In March, 2001, after being out of work for four months, I received a call from my PA Office of Vocational Rehabilitation?counselorabout a?data entry?position at Advanced Staffing in downtown Philadelphia. The job was at Keystone MercyHealth?plan; located a few minutes south of the Philadelphiaairport.I went into the office for my appointment, went through the application process, and one of the agency's staff members asked if we had any other commitments for the next three months. One girl there said that had a?court?date on March 14 for a child support hearing. The interview was on a Friday, and I started there the following Monday.Three days after I started the assignment, I went home sick. I thought I was OK the next day (Friday). When I went in the next Monday, I was coughing up a storm like crazy and my voice was hoarse. The staffing agency rep was in the on-site manager's office. Because I was sick, I asked her if I could go home, and she said no.The next morning (Tuesday), I was still sick so I called out. Ditto for the next day (Wednesday). But this time, I went to the emergency room to get it checked out. They gave me a chest X-ray and they found out that I had pneumonia in my left lung. (They also gave me a breathing tube as well.) They put me on medication bedrest, and told me to drink a lot of fluids. I had to stay home for three weeks.I called the agency to let them know that I would come back to work when I was better. The agency said that I had quit (which wasn't true), but then they replaced me on the assignment. I went to my regular doctor for a follow-up visit, and I got a doctor's note. I showed them the doctor's note, but they didn't have anything else for me.Although I did get my paycheck for the first week that I worked, I did not get my second check for that Monday.Continued from previous post.)After so-much game-playing, I let them know that if I didn't get my paycheck, I was going to report them to the Dept. ofLabor. I even left them one nasty after-hours message on their voicemail. Low and behold, I got my check, and now, I believe that they're out of?business.I also registered with Apple One when I was out of work last year. Even though I let them know that I was available for work, they never had anything for me. Now that I've been out of work since February, I won't be contacting them again.Let's face it. I don't think any staffing agency gets in part-time positions. If that's the case, them I'm better off going directly to the companies instead.Let's do away with these staffing agencies once and for all. I'm sick and tired of them being on every single job board there is.I have registered with Aijion twice in the past and the economy was not in a recession the last time I registered with them. They never sent me on a single interview. Then about a month ago they contacted me and noticed that I registered with then a few years back and they told me that the person is no longer with them and she can get the ball rolling for me again. I told her that she already has my file and resume so you can reactivate me. She said that I would have to come in again and re-register. I told her that it was too far and I thought it was pointless since she has everything on file. She did not talk about any jobs that she currently had for my background, so if I were to come in she would just tell me the same bs line that they would call me if something that matches would come in. A week later, I noticed a posting that was refreshed almost daily for the same ad. So they were just drumming up for more candidates. Why do they keep posting ads when they have nothing? I no longer respond to any postings that are from any staffing firms, and I now realize that this is just a tease. All staffing firms have more than enough resumes currently in their?database?of active candidates. With people looking close to 2 years, they can call a good percentage of people who registered in 2008 to 2010 and get good candidates that match the few jobs that they do get in with no sweat.Why do staffing agencies have to keep your information on file for several years? That's rediculous! Most companies only keep them at least six months to a year; unless you are permanetly employed by them.They keep your info on file. I have had calls from some of them that I have worked with several years ago, it is easier as they just need you to update them from your last job till now instead of going through the whole history again. They do test your skills again. Lately if they have not helped me in the past I don't want to waste my time and gas going in and "meeting them" again because they are new and don't feel comfortable sending me out without first meeting with me. If they have the file then I tell them to refer to the note that the previous person noted, no they still insist on the in person meeting and I tell then no thank you. If they were not able to send me on interviews in better times they certainly will not now and they know that. They are just looking for contacts to call and care less about how impressive my resume is.Kim in Chicago, Illinois said:?They keep your info on file. I have had calls from some of them that I have worked with several years ago, it is easier as they just need you to update them from your last job till now instead of going through the whole history again. They do test your skills again. Lately if they have not helped me in the past I don't want to waste my time and gas going in and "meeting them" again because they are new and don't feel comfortable sending me out without first meeting with me. If they have the file then I tell them to refer to the note that the previous person noted, no they still insist on the in person meeting and I tell then no thank you. If they were not able to send me on interviews in better times they certainly will not now and they know that. They are just looking for contacts to call and care less about how impressive my resume is.Well, at least they go thru their files. So many places just stack the applications and resumes away and say "we just can't find any decent people".Ajilon, a sister company of?Adecco. All of their ads are in ALL CAPS, full of misspellings, and they repeatedly post the same job ads over many months, and even years. They use these ads to collect resumes. Many of the jobs don't exist.Any staffing agency that constantly posts job openings that don't exist just to generate applicants is guilty of lying and false?advertising?right there and then. If the job's been filled, then pull it from the list. Don't keep the same job posted over and over again and then lie about it.Its true in Mount Prospect, Illinois said:?Ajilon, a sister company of?Adecco. All of their ads are in ALL CAPS, full of misspellings, and they repeatedly post the same job ads over many months, and even years. They use these ads to collect resumes. Many of the jobs don't exist.I have worked with both agencies and I have worked for Adecco in the past, and they have sent me on other interviews, while Ajilon has never sent me anywhere. I have never seen my local office advertise, but I have seen ads for both agencies, more for Ajilon by far.While in Maine I took about 8 hours of tests for 3 different temp agencies. I then spent months applying to all of their internet job posts with no replies. I called one agency on it and angrily complained and the young inexperienced (not taught to lie yet) receptionist admitted that the jobs are not real. She said she was told that they are representations of POTENTIAL jobs that they might have. WTF? Is that evenlegal?There's a place in Missouri (sorry i don't know the name) that was doing this?and the State?Attorney?General?is investigating. if I learn more, i will post.PrideStaff in Modesto.?Select Staffing in Tracy.?Manpower, I believe in Stockton.Rude, liars, and constant "call back sometime next week".i live in the central new jersey area. i am registered with 5 temp agencies, and haven't been able to get 1 job, out of none of them. they are a bunch of liars and i don't know how they stay in?business. once in a blue moon, they will call but they don't have any opportunities. i feel like asking them "why the "f" are you calling me for. the worst temp agencies- (officeteam)in woodbridge, nj, (j& j temps) in somerset, nj and (loreleli) in east brunswick, nj.I can't see why they just keep posting ad after ad on the boards and they are just to get people to submit a resume and then they call them into the office. If they want to see what I look like they can go to my Linkindin of Facebook, instead of wasting my gas running all over town for them. They can just as easy have you sent the info by email (the contacts are all they really want).allison in San Francisco, California said:?CyberCoders; MRI Recruiters - all of them; The Ladders; Don't use any of these agencies. They are either scam jobs or no one follow-ups with you - EVER!!MRI sure the hell is a jokey joke!Julie Ann in Park Ridge, Illinois said:?Employment agencies sure are a night and day difference. For those of you that have never worked with one, let me tell you that they call you up and tell you that they are very impressed with your resume and want to meet you to discuss opportunites that they have that would fit your background and skills, then when you arrive they put you in front of a?computer?and tell you that you have to take a test of about 30 questions on MS Word, Excel, Powerpoint, a typing speed test sometimes as long as 5 minutes, and when you are done with that they talk with you about your past jobs for about 15 mins and tell you that they just has a job, but it was filled yesterday, I just learned that the candidate accepted the offer, I didn't want to say that yesterday just in case the offer was not accepted. Today I think that 99.9% of the time and offer is extended it is accepted or counter offered. Just look at the number of people who are on long term unemployment benefits (over 6 months) and it is growing. Take a look at any week you want even going back to the last recession, we NEVER had over 5 million people out of work that long. I have looked at the reports from a few months ago and they were lower then. Agencies don't have the jobs, and when they do they have stiff competition for each and every one!ows.unemploy/claims_arch.aspthat is exactly the spill on the way things go...especially with robert half. To the letter...and add in, they will walk out the room and come back and tell you "it was just filled"...hogwashCybercoders is the absolute worst of them all. They have consistently posted the SAME jobs for Flash developers for over a year. Most of them have pretty high salaries (up to 130k) and several mention that relocation would be provided for the "right candidate". The jobs seem too good to be true, and now I believe they are. I fell for it and applied to 5 of their open reqs. I actually heard back from a few Cybercoders reps and they seemed nice enough on the phone. The odd thing is that after the initial conversation, they disappear into lala land.I am highly qualified for the jobs I apply for, and in most cases I even possess the skills and experience which they list as "not required, but desired". So seriously, what gives?I could understand if they found someone they felt was a better match, but the same open job reqs keep on appearing over and over again. I have a hard time believing that in this job market they can't find a fit. Please....People, don't waste your precious time with thee fools. There should seriously be an investigation into what these losers are really doing.op Lying All-Stars (in this order):1. The LaSalle Network, 200 N. LaSalle St., Chicago, IL?2. Addison Search, 222 S. Riverside Plaza, Chicago, IL?3. BPS Staffing, 134 N. LaSalle St., Chicago, IL?4.?Kelly Services, 55 W. Monroe St., Chicago, IL?5. Venturi Staffing Partners, 222 N. LaSalle St., Chicago, IL?------------------------All have touted themselves as an agency "like no other." Yet, they all practice fraudulent posting of non-existent positions to reel in job-seekers, & never returning calls (never mind I tested @ 100% on all MS apps in Qwiz / Kenexa assessments, & clocked @ 64wpm Typing.) Staffing agencies pull the ol' bait-and-switch for what? To have the top # of candidates @ their disposal???I say we escalate this to the highest levels currently @ our disposal:?* American Staffing Association?* Illinois Staffing Association?*?City?of Chicago?* Minority?Business Development?Council?*?Federal?Trade Commission () "collects complaints about companies,?business?practices, .....Your complaints can help us detect patterns of wrong-doing, and lead to?investigationsand prosecutions. ...The FTC does not resolve individual consumer complaints."?* Better Business Bureau?* RipOff Report ()Job-seekers (employed or not), need to stretch their limited resources. Staffing agencies are reaching out to job-seekers only to have them waste our resources (buying suits or dry-cleaning?suits for interviews; cab-fare / bus-fare / gas to drive to interviews; etc.)This is a fraudulent practice, and the last time I checked, ANY business that practices?fraud?is supposed to have its doors shuttered.Best to All out there....Don't forget about Kforce & Robert Half. Both will blacklist you as well within the industry so no recruiter will give you the time of day*Robert Half aka "wanna be professionals". They have no real desire to find you perm or temporary employment.?*Randstad with your beloved "Citigroup"?account. That's all they have folks. If you dont want to work at Citigroup, which I DONT, well, they dont have a job for you.?*Cornerstone...hmm, never had an agency call my refs in front of me. I have nothing to fear but geez lol! Low paying bs jobs.?*Appleone, Ajilon, Kforce- please close up shop. Id rather see the army listings on careerbuilder than your fake postings.. uggh!In my area, these include Covidien, Crocs, Raytheon, Constant Contact. Do you keep applying and hope someone eventually actually reads a resume?I applied at Crocs (online) I did my follow up call about a week later, left a message, and actually got a call back! Had a nice chat with a person in the?HR?department, applied for another position (the first one had been filled). Unfortunately, I did receive a decline e-mail last week... but they did respond to me.I wasn't sure what the protocol was for applying online (I'm new at this, this time around), so I just did what I used to do when I sent paper resumes: made a list and followed up to make sure my resume was received, and what the status was.I just went to Office Team today, so I don't have experience with them yet, but you can bet I'll be calling them every week to stay at the top of their "Hot List". It sounds like some of the posters on here have been promised things and not gotten any follow thru... how frustrating! But I also think it's up to me to follow up from my end and not wait for them to call.Yes??No?Career, Job Listing Services should not allow the Temp. Agencies to flow as the TOP listings in the searches the unemployed and job seekers who are looking for actual work. Between the spam haunts and the bogus temp ads... the real available job listings are pretty minimal - it can be a daunting endeavor. Perhaps a query to eliminate the temp agencies from the search would help. Perhaps the temp agencies would figure out that most are hip to their tactics of "market research" and not really offering a position.?In the temp agency market they hire too many reps. who in competition and showing their worth, post bogus ads. They have even admitted that a portion of the ads listed are for market research to see what attracts clients. They are abusiness?- a competitive business. Haunting the?labor?pool and the business industry alike.?One corporation I know of hired a temp who's background was not searched and they had been known as an embesseler... and they did embessel from the corp.?The?credit?check and?health?information is just hidious. Least you are applying for a loan or are making a blood donation - should have nothing to do with job search and employment. While a background check for legitimizing work history and criminal behaviors is warranted; there are no ethics or standards. People who may have been falsely accused or perhaps their crimes have no impact on the potential employment. The employment situation is "at will" and one can choose to leave an employer or not - and put up with all sorts of issues. The databasing of the human spirit has and will continue to blast people to rage.?It is a fact of opinion that employers who hire for labor type positions believe that the hispanic orientation is a "better" canidate. Word of mouth is a powerful tool in forming opinion based facts. So if you are not hispanic and your name doesn't sound of such - you probably will be skipped over in this?hiring?field.I have lost count of the number of agencies I have spoken to during this "recession" (truly still a depression). I have been honest with every last one of them. I have also applied to countless companies. Guess what? I am still unemployed!! I was in the?construction?field and there are simply no jobs there and there won't be until the?housing?market recovers!All of the employment firms are so full of lies. They send you emails telling you that they are working on a job with a client and the client will be moving quickly on this position. Nobody moves quickly to fill a position today. Agencies post the job boards on a daily basis, yet when I have worked with them in the past everytime I use to call them they are not currently working on anything that I would be a good fit for. Truth is they are not working on anything other than special project or medical fill in type jobs. Lets face it who in todays economic climate would pay thousands of dollars to an agency who pulled a resume off the boards themselves to present a candidate to a company when they could post an ad for $25 on Craigslist and get hundreds of resumes. Grant it some of them do not qualify but I am sure that you could find a few good candidates to interview and move forward with.Tired of being jobless in Park Ridge, Illinois said:?All of the employment firms are so full of lies. They send you emails telling you that they are working on a job with a client and the client will be moving quickly on this position. Nobody moves quickly to fill a position today. Agencies post the job boards on a daily basis, yet when I have worked with them in the past everytime I use to call them they are not currently working on anything that I would be a good fit for. Truth is they are not working on anything other than special project or medical fill in type jobs. Lets face it who in todays economic climate would pay thousands of dollars to an agency who pulled a resume off the boards themselves to present a candidate to a company when they could post an ad for $25 on Craigslist and get hundreds of resumes. Grant it some of them do not qualify but I am sure that you could find a few good candidates to interview and move forward with.Today I see where employers "can't find qualified candidates."Where the hell are they looking ? Also, the recruiters I've been in touch with, are so un?creative, it's pathetic.Jamietech in Boston, Massachusetts said:?Seriously, as someone who has worked with agencies before... use your common sense. If you're eager, honest and truthfully good at what you do there is a good chance they can help you. Putting embellishments on your resume, blowing off an interview or a meeting etc etc- will most certainly get your name out there, and not in a good way.Perhaps if you all stopped complaining and actually put a 100% effort into finding a job instead of pointing the fingers at others and blogging about it.. you'd be at work right now.Seriously, I have worked with agencies in the past too. In between jobs I have done temp work and obtained permanent?full time?positions because of my excellent work ethic and skills. Today, the recruiters get so excited when they see my resume and tell me they are impressed with my interview, but after almost two years of unemployment I have yet to obtain even a temp job. Don't tell me I haven't tried hard enough or I'm not professional enough. I'm sick and tired of employed people telling me I must be doing something wrong or I would have a job right now. Since you are so knowledgeable, why don't you give all of us some tips on how to obtain a job through an agency.casey45 in Georgia said:?Too bad the agencies can't be honest, can't return phone calls, post fake jobs, etc.....If what you say is true, then why are millions of people that are putting 100% into finding a job not working now?You forgot 'act put upon' if you dare to call to follow up or check in (no more than once a week).Complain about a so called 'talent mismatch' (which the media is now using as the sole reason for high unemployment even though small?business?& other executives say different), then say that you have too much 'experience' for a specific position which means (and this was even stated in the media) that you are too old (meaning you won't fit in with a younger crowd -- 20 somethings only want to hang with & work with 20 somethings) or want 'too much money' (just assuming without even asking).And many agencies are doing things that are out & out fraudulent. One agency with the intials KF in Boston said point blank on the phone that we run ads on craigslist just to get a stock of current resumes. One other told me to change the title of one of my positions from Senior?Accountant?toFinancial Analyst. Another told me to remove my Masters degree.alot of agencies have avoided having a live receptionist. It's all automated...They want to call U back whenever that will be...what a trip!Nick L in Medford, Massachusetts said:?Complain about a so called 'talent mismatch' (which the media is now using as the sole reason for high unemployment even though small?business?& other executives say different), then say that you have too much 'experience' for a specific position which means (and this was even stated in the media) that you are too old (meaning you won't fit in with a younger crowd -- 20 somethings only want to hang with & work with 20 somethings) or want 'too much money' (just assuming without even asking).One other told me to change the title of one of my positions from Senior?Accountant?to?Financial Analyst. Another told me to remove my Masters degree.Nick - I'm your age and in the "same boat". Been there, done that..with these agencies. The reason for this abuse ?: NO LAWS in this country to protect temp workers...none. What about salaried people ? THEY'RE GOLDEN...can't?fire?them in fact...they could get a?labor?law?attorney?in a heartbeat for their case. For temps: NO LABOR LAW ATTORNEY WOULD TOUCH US. And isn't it disgusting to go to a firm, work your ASS OFF, and watch the regular employees SLACK LIKE CRAZY...and get away with it ?Canada initiated Bill 139 a year or so ago...to stop the abuse that is occurring in this area. It won't happen in the USA. There are NO LOBBIESTS for temp people. None, nada, zip, zilch, zero, zed.Nuff said ? Bend-over temp-people in the USA.Yesterday (Monday, October 18), I received a call from Beth at Contemporary Staffing Solutions in King of Prussia about the resume that I submitted. When she asked me what my salary requirements were, I was straight up front. I told her that I cannot make more than $1000 a month because of my SSDI, and that I can only work part-time. Unfortunately, they don't have any part-time openings; just full-time.I re-entered the job market three weeks ago. I am presently laid off from my present position as a part-time telephone interviewer until the middle of November, if the company gets approval from the client to start the next project then. At least they warned us in advance that this was going to happen.Anyway, I just sent Beth an email and let her know that I cannot commit to any full-time temporary assignments because of my SSDI and work situations.Staffing agencies: hello! What's wrong with getting part-time positions in? What I have is non-negotiable. If you can't accept it, then I'm better off going directly to the companies instead. And besides, I'm not about to quit my presnet position for another temporary job.When I was out of work last year, this one girl at this staffing agency said that I needed to be flexible in today's job market. Well flexible my foot! I can only work part-time and that's the bottom line.Contemporary Staffing Solutions is now off my list of temp agency contacts.What frustrates me about these 'staffing agencies' is that they will only contact you about a specific job that requires a full interview process as if it were a?full time?perm position. If for some reason you don't get the job or the client isn't interested you never hear from that agency again. I have been told by these agencies 'I will keep my eyes open and let you know if I hear of anything' and I never hear again.And what is with these salary requirement questions before any position is presented?? Just state what the position is paying. If you salary 'requirements' are too high then you are overqualified, too low then you appear 'desperate'.?I state what I was making on my last temp & perm positions then I nicely ask what is the range or budget for this opportunity.Nick: I agree with you a hundred percent. Staffing agencies today have literally become the?Human Resourcesdepartments for these companies. The application process is just as though you were applying directly to the company. Before I went on SSDI, a lot of these places used to ask me what my salary requirements were. I would answer them by asking "Well can you tell me how much this job is paying?".They also want you to make a full-time commitment to them for the duration of the assignment. Well that's fine and dandy if you don't have any other committments and are able to work full-time. In my case, I just can't. Just like I did on Monday with Contemporary Staffing Solutions, if they can't work with me, I will cross them off my contact list.You're better off going directly to the companies instead of these so-called "staffing agencies". All they do is just play games, and believe me, I don't have time for this.EtconSpherionPhillips StaffingAxiom StaffingKelly ServicesRobert HalfBOS StaffingI tell you what, a few years ago, I interviewed with an agency - I think it was?Adecco?but I can't remember for certain - and they told me I had the best?data entry?scores they'd ever seen - I don't say this to brag - I say this because I thought certainly, they've identified that I have a skill, and I scored very well, so certainly they can find me a job because I'm "the best they've ever seen", and since they're alwaysadvertising?for needing people, they'll find me a job, right??NOPE, no luck... what the heck?If you're really hard up for luck, go for it, but really, if you're going to jump through all the hoops of applications,?datatests,?driving?to interviews (multiple - the temp agency and the actual employer) - getting dressed up and getting your hopes up - why even go with the temp agency, again, unless this is your last resort? Times are hard so you have to do what you can...But with 47 million on?food?stamps the numbers don't lie... good luck to all!DollyParton83 in Hackensack,NJ, New Jersey said:?It's time to be at war with these staffing agencies and companies that keep wasting job seekers time with their antics. Let's fulfill these boards up because we have a voice and it needs to be heard through searches of?Google?, Bing, and Yahoo. It's time to wake America up.Months ago, I started a discussion telling my peers to avoid Essex Temporary Services. I will now try to boost the topic back up the forum before someone else become victims.Let's start blacklisting these?HR?reps RIGHT NOW! The unemployment rate in this country is at an all time high. Congress can't keep extending unemployment benefits...they need to be on these companies behinds. WE NEED OUR e on...name names of people posting these fake job postings and using fake company names to play with our minds.Well, if you think that's bad, try working for employers/managerial/supervisory staff who tell you and your coworkers that you really do not need to be here at their company working for a paycheck, a promotion or monetary advancement in?general. Last time I checked, most people going into work for an employer, actually planned on earning and receiving a paycheck, and receiving pay raises/other incentives for their hard work, because after all, they aren't slaves working for nada $0. That's what I mean, in some of these places, there seem to be real misunderstandings between management and employees. I just wonder what drugs some of these supervisors, managers and teachers were on in some of these places at the times of their questionable actions and behaviors. There definitely seem like some real problems going on in some of these places that professional counselors and?legal?people need to address.I want to expand on my previous comment.Axiom Staffing are liars. They have signs on the side of the road on a major highway saying that they are hiring. They have already put signs up 3 or 4 times already at different intervals over the past year.I have applied to multiple positions that they "claim" they are hiring for and I never hear from them. These are jobs in which I match every single requirement. I smell a rat and I believe they are fishing for resumes and the hiring signs are there as a smokescreen to get people to apply. If you are hiring, then why are you not matching the resumes you already have to jobs? Jerks.If you've got to take a?contract?with RHT, then you know you are on the bottom of the pile of crap known as IT temping.?I quit the?business?for several years and then came back.?That's exactly where I started....?Currently, I'm at 40% of my inflation adjusted pay rate of 10 years ago.?That's the effect of outsourcing.i'ld say in mo. that ADDECCO is an joke. worked for them for 5yrs,then got on fulltime with an client.got laid off in may and since i couldn't find anything i went back to them. took the online test in june and HAVE NOT been called in for my interview yetanother is RANDSTAD.?back in the 90's i worked for them when the tempservice i use to work for got bought out by them.first they screwed me out of an raise.the old boss gave everyone at the old temp service an 50 cent raise,except me.called RANDSTAD to find out what the deal was.?i was told the old boss gave out the raise to everyone he LIKED and everyone who worked there an long time.guess 4-5yrs wasn't an long time in his book.RANDSTAD said they would fix the raise.2 weeks later i got an 10 cent raise.(cont.)next thing RANDSTAD did was screw up my w-2 form. they sent me 2 different forms with different amounts on them.called them 2 months before apr.15 asking for 1 form,and called maybe every other week till the end of march.kept getting they will work on it.guess what apr.15 came and gone with no corrected form.Creative?Circle -Completely unprofessional. I know for a fact that they post non-existing jobs just to collect resumes. They've been posting the same job for about a year now. I've applied several times and haven't been called. I'm qualified to the letter. My last job title was word for word the job title they're trying to fill and I was there for 4 1/2 years.Something fishy. Don't waste your time.needanjob in Saint Louis, Missouri said:?i'ld say in mo. that ADDECCO is an joke. worked for them for 5yrs,then got on fulltime with an client.got laid off in may and since i couldn't find anything i went back to them. took the online test in june and HAVE NOT been called in for my interview yetanother is RANDSTAD.?back in the 90's i worked for them when the tempservice i use to work for got bought out by them.first they screwed me out of an raise.the old boss gave everyone at the old temp service an 50 cent raise,except me.called RANDSTAD to find out what the deal was.?i was told the old boss gave out the raise to everyone he LIKED and everyone who worked there an long time.guess 4-5yrs wasn't an long time in his book.RANDSTAD said they would fix the raise.2 weeks later i got an 10 cent raise.Randstad is on my staffing agency do-not-call list. They keep running the same job ads all the time.When I was out of work two years ago, I had called them about a telephone interviewing position that they had. The woman who answered the phone kept on questioning me, and I did like her style of questioning. I asked to speak to her manager and she said that she was the resume. She also said to send over a copy of my resume, but I didn't do it. I left them one nasty after-hours message on their voice mail, and I will never deal with them again.Let's consider a few common professions between California and Texas two biggest states in lower 48. Two states that are seeing people fleeing from California and going to Texas for a net migration in favor of Texas. Seeing businesses leaving California and going to Texas to greatly increase their net income after Taxes. Twenty percent at least lower cost of doing business, means they can increase their bottom line by 20% of gross income or more by moving to Texas.Doctors specializing in general practitioner and family medicine.Salary California average $185,040, Texas average $163,897. But now lets adjust for cost of living.Adjusted for cost of living California average $163,897, Texas $186,611.Accountants and auditors.Salary California average $70,580, Texas $67,368.Adjusted for cost of living California $62,516, Texas $65,puter and information systems managers.Salary California average $146,280 highest in U.S., Texas $133,648 11th best.Adjust for cost of living California $129,566, Texas $133,648.Construction Managers average California $102,420, Texas $90,717.Adjust for cost of living California $74,660, Texas $77,368.Now which is really the low paying State??So many people only look at the total salary, they do not take into consideration that is not always the best test. It is what you can do with that pay check, not nearly as much about how big it is. On top of that, California will hit that paycheck with a big state income tax, Texas there is not income tax to pay. So after the taxes are taken into consideration it gets even worse for the California residents.?So what are the benefits of living in California over Texas. Some companies as noted may give you a few days more vacation, but to get those few extra days, you end up with less to live on.?Check out the difference in total income between any states, and the after adjusted for cost of living real income in your profession.Salary by State: Where Can You Really Earn the Most?I'm thinking about attending this job fair in New Jersey. I am a bit iffy because I have signed up but haven't received any information as to what companies will be in attendance.Instead of having a long line, they have us sit and present each company to us via projector, then we choose which company is the right fit for usIts free. Should I still go and check it out? A direct link to their website is below.Career Showcase | Your Path To A New CareerDid you see recently on the news regarding the job fair held in Atlanta? There were 10,000 people who showed up and waited for hours in the hot sun only to be told by "recruiter" inside that they could apply?ONLINE?What is the purpose of a "job Fair" if you do not get to meet with hiring managers and submit your resume in person?I live quite a distance from the area they hold the local "job fairs" and to me it seems like a giant waste of gas and time. It is even more so if you are looking for specialized types of work.Originally Posted by?Wartrace?Did you see recently on the news regarding the job fair held in Atlanta? There were 10,000 people who showed up and waited for hours in the hot sun only to be told by "recruiter" inside that they could apply?ONLINE?What is the purpose of a "job Fair" if you do not get to meet with hiring managers and submit your resume in person?I live quite a distance from the area they hold the local "job fairs" and to me it seems like a giant waste of gas and time. It is even more so if you are looking for specialized types of work.There was never a purpose to a job fair which is why I never went within 10 feet of one. Plus the idea of being dressed up and standing in line with other unemployed people looks dumb since you are prt of the "unemployed crew"I decided against going.?I never noticed that there was contact information listed on the website.?Since its a New Jersey based company that hosts these "job fairs" i'm sure they will have other ones here and within the area.There was a job fair in Sacramento this week. The news media showed people standing in 97 degree heat to get inside.Inside they were referred to the company's websites.Im glad I skipped it and stayed cool in the AC at home.?I went to the career showcase tonight. All I can say was I was disappointed. If you are interested in sales it may be worth checking out, but don't let them fool you they are ALL sales jobs many commision based only. One was to be a sales person in a Sleepys showroom. They were legitimit companies but what a joke. The one guy even remarked that he is changing up his pitch tonight because the other guy had heard it so many times, so dont bother thinking going to any one of their events anywhere would be any different. Also, where I went there are dozens of large pharmacutical companies and there wasn't a single one there.Originally Posted by?Lacey2323?I went to the career showcase tonight. All I can say was I was disappointed. If you are interested in sales it may be worth checking out, but don't let them fool you they are ALL sales jobs many commision based only. One was to be a sales person in a Sleepys showroom. They were legitimit companies but what a joke. The one guy even remarked that he is changing up his pitch tonight because the other guy had heard it so many times, so dont bother thinking going to any one of their events anywhere would be any different. Also, where I went there are dozens of large pharmacutical companies and there wasn't a single one there.You are exactly right Lacey. I went to 3 over the year that I was unemployed. As you said, they were legit companies but all were for sales jobs and a lot of commission only. Sleepy`s was also there. They actually hired me..this was about 2 years ago. A friend I went with got hired by Sears home improvement. Neither one of us are still at those jobs. A lot of the companies just directed people to their website to fill out an application. If you are looking for something other than sales, it`s a waste of time.Originally Posted by?Lacey2323?I went to the career showcase tonight. All I can say was I was disappointed. If you are interested in sales it may be worth checking out, but don't let them fool you they are ALL sales jobs many commision based only. One was to be a sales person in a Sleepys showroom. They were legitimit companies but what a joke. The one guy even remarked that he is changing up his pitch tonight because the other guy had heard it so many times, so dont bother thinking going to any one of their events anywhere would be any different. Also, where I went there are dozens of large pharmacutical companies and there wasn't a single one there.Similar situation in PA. Most of the jobs fairs I've been to were mostly sales - insurance, pool supplies, real estate, candles (LOL), etc. The tables that draw the biggest crowds were the "other than sales" jobs but they were mostly warehouse or factory jobs.I decided against going to their job fairs for a few reasons...1. This is the only review that I could find related to their job fairs. If they do job fairs all over the country, I should be able to find more than one site, without having to look too hard.2. The fact that the companies attending are doing presentations tells me that they NEED to sell me on their company. In this economy, if you have to sell people on a job, it's probably a job nobody else wants.?3. Where is the list of companies attending? I like to do research before I meet with a prospective employer. The fact that you're so secretive about who's attending is a little sketchy to me.?I actually want to do sales, and I definitely want to get back to working, but attending one of their job fairs just doesn't seem worth it to me. In no way am I saying that others shouldn't go, hell, I hope people post more experiences up here telling me how wrong I am, I just need to get a lot more facts about them before I attend one.Originally Posted by?AFriendTillTheEnd?I decided against going to their job fairs for a few reasons...1. This is the only review that I could find related to their job fairs. If they do job fairs all over the country, I should be able to find more than one site, without having to look too hard.2. The fact that the companies attending are doing presentations tells me that they NEED to sell me on their company. In this economy, if you have to sell people on a job, it's probably a job nobody else wants.?3. Where is the list of companies attending? I like to do research before I meet with a prospective employer. The fact that you're so secretive about who's attending is a little sketchy to me.?I actually want to do sales, and I definitely want to get back to working, but attending one of their job fairs just doesn't seem worth it to me. In no way am I saying that others shouldn't go, hell, I hope people post more experiences up here telling me how wrong I am, I just need to get a lot more facts about them before I attend one.I always considered job fairs pointless and never understood why they draw so many peopleCalled the company three or four times in the course of two months and never got a call back. I just wanted to know what employers would be there since they don't list any on the website. Very poor service, would not recommend.Just attended a job fair at the Hilton in nyc over a week ago. People were lined up outside and around the corner for all sales jobs. The people were walking in and walking out just as fast. It was extremely disappointed. with so many unemployed people these companies should be ashamed of themselves. people wasted time and money to get there and there were no jobs of any value. Sad.Originally Posted by?FBJ?I always considered job fairs pointless and never understood why they draw so many peopleI got a very good job out of a job fair once. They do work. You just have to have your schtick down and do your research about the companies before you go. Use any company recruiter you meet as an internal reference on your application if you like the job.I am signed up to attend the Career Showcase Job Fair in Tampa.... they stress to be prepared... but I am unable to find out Which companies will be there and what positions they are hiring for. I signed up online and received a number of YouTube Testimonials and Vendor Videos .... and the majority of them were geared toward Recent or upcoming graduates. I have my degree and 15+ years of Executive Experience. Does ANYONE think I should attend?Originally Posted by?Winterland101?Just attended a job fair at the Hilton in nyc over a week ago. People were lined up outside and around the corner for all sales jobs. The people were walking in and walking out just as fast. It was extremely disappointed. with so many unemployed people these companies should be ashamed of themselves. people wasted time and money to get there and there were no jobs of any value. Sad.THIS. A fool is born every day. These companies with high turnover rates know this.Originally Posted by?ClearwaterLC?I am signed up to attend the Career Showcase Job Fair in Tampa.... they stress to be prepared... but I am unable to find out Which companies will be there and what positions they are hiring for. I signed up online and received a number of YouTube Testimonials and Vendor Videos .... and the majority of them were geared toward Recent or upcoming graduates. I have my degree and 15+ years of Executive Experience. Does ANYONE think I should attend?NO. You're wasting your time and travel $.?I'm at a job fair that has a twenty minute time limit.A TIME LIMIT.I got laid off from my contract work in July, which is why I'm here but seriously...I stopped going to job fairs. I was only able to get a parttime position at BestBuy while I continued searching but fairs are a waste of time. You waste trainfare, busfare and gas only to be told to apply online or they're crappy sales jobs.Really i see in many job websites a lot of position, i applied when i receive a call from there they asked me what i am looking for?after give all my personal information they decide to "submit" my resume to their secret "client' , i asked many times for updates but they dont respond or answer anything.Staffing companies: Getting one's person info, promising they'll submit it to various 'clients', and then failing to follow up with the job seeker appears to be common.My experience: Saw a job posting on Indeed.Send in my resume, and get call from a staffing agency. An enthusiastic woman told me, "We've reviewed your resume, and you look like a 'great fit' for the position. In fact, I think that we could find you something better."I was then invited for an 'interview' with staffing company, where I was given 2 hours of tests. Company also went by 3 different names. (Online, there were several 1-star reviews.) But their office is in great location, and they seemed professional.I didn't really want to give them my Social Security #, but they insisted on 2 forms of ID. I gave them more personal info than anyone should have to. I asked about the posting I'd replied to? Was told job was no longer available. (Bait and switch.)I did hear from this company a couple times, with a 'job posting, but NO company name. After 2-3 emails? Nothing.Same initial 'enthusiasm' occurred with different temp agency. Was told they'd submit my resume, and I'd soon be contacted by HR at mystery company. No reply. Emailed woman who had told me she'd 'remain in contact' with me. Heard NOTHING back.I think these staffing agencies are some sort of scam? Just looking for info and contacts? Or maybe I'm not good enough? Who knows? VERY discouraging, as I know people USED to be able to get 'temp work'. Shouldn't be this hard to get a job.Eva, your experience sounds exactly like mine. That is why I no longer deal with any of them.Eva's experience is mine, too....Saw a job ad for a specific position, and applied.Got a call to come in for an interview.Went to the staffing agency, filled out forms.Was told that the job I applied for wasn't available, but "they probably had something else."Watched an industrial safety video (I'm too old to want to work in a warehouse or factory).Was asked to sign a paper saying that I'd read their safety manual. They didn't have the manual for me to read, so I refused to sign.Then I got up and left.Eva in San Francisco, California said:?I think these staffing agencies are some sort of scam? Just looking for info and contacts? Or maybe I'm not good enough? Who knows? VERY discouraging, as I know people USED to be able to get 'temp work'. Shouldn't be this hard to get a job.I think the Internet has changed the dynamics in this area as well. In the late 90's I worked for 3 temp agencies and went from one job to the next. It was a great way to see what a company was like without actually committing as a full time employee. Many companies actually hired temp-to-perm back then.All three of those agencies are out of business now. I still have their old business cards.Originally Posted by?margaretBartle?This old canard keeps coming up - the imported guest workers are here because Americans are too stupid and lazy to do the work.In reality, almost everyone who has to train these workers (and, yes, they are brought here for training, which is why the visas are for three years) talks about how poorly skilled the workers are. The Americans who are training them are doing it becuase they will loose their severance pay, often thousands of dollars, if they don't. Americans are perfectly willing and capable of doign the work, but these guest workers are indentured servants. The visas belong to the company, not the workers. The workers have to pay thousands of dollars to get the visas. The workers have to work very long hours. And there is the added aspect that hiring your fellow country-men is considered patriotic and desireable everywhere but in the US, and certainly by the body shops that bring in these workers.Most people will probably see the logic fail in your statement that advanced guest workers make above the median white American income, a high percentage of whom are low-wage and minimum wage workers. Most of the family-wage jobs and professional wage jobs have been outsourced or off-shored.Because work visas are limited, most agencies are using them to bring more advanced workers because lower level work can be offshored now they rather bring in a higher priced worker than use them for lowest billable worker.Take for instance a guest IT worker, they used to bring in someone who helps the agency bill $100 an hour, the agency pockets $70 and pays the worker $30/hr. Nowadays the function of this job has been automated or offshored, they don't need to bring him here. They moved to a higher level role and seek someone doing more advanced work, they bill a company for $150/hr and pays the worker only $50/hr and pockets the $100/hr.?Agencies have been moving up the scale to higher and higher roles. Many H1B1 workers also over stay their visa and become an illegal here. Working odd jobs, collecting unemployment, and wait for a sponsor.So in effect, these companies are allowing guest workers to flood the market by allowing them to come over and over-stay their visas and INS is not doing enough to send people packing.I am a full time consultant and travel to 3 different job sites the past 2 years and the amount of guest worker abuse I see is pervasive. It's already starting to hurt even lower management as immigrant workers that been here long enough and have green cards can become managers. Many of these companies rather hire an immigrant that can speak English and Hindu well in order to manage these guest workers properly.This is not just IT, it is accounting, business research, finance, medical, and insurance. Offshoring services like IBM is heavily involved with staging workers from India and onboarding them for assignments across various organizations including government contracts. Even those that requires US citizenship, these companies would use American contract workers for the initial engagement then replace them with Indian guest workers when they feel they've earned the client's trust and doesn't monitor them anymore.I get contract work when companies like IBM screws up or get caught using cheap workers to fill the job and I go in and find the same story. Companies getting screwed by them with a bait and switch tactic.[Are most companies dysfunctional today?]I have a theory which is pretty much that the country is experiencing what it's like to have slipped from being a completely first world country. We are FAR from third world but I see a lot of the same messed up business practices that I saw among my many travels to the third world. People are replaceable, service sucks, low morale, bad and corrupt management, colluding with government, nepotism, etc etc.?I used to think it was just an individual problem with the company I was working with but it's pervasive in the private sector. Since most of my trips to the third world have been to Latin America I see a lot of similarities with a sensationalist press, biased media, major cities being rich/poor. It's not on that level of bad but I've seen a drop in quality in almost about everything except technology. That's where we still shine.Originally Posted by?radiolibre99?I have a theory which is pretty much that the country is experiencing what it's like to have slipped from being a completely first world country. We are FAR from third world but I see a lot of the same messed up business practices that I saw among my many travels to the third world. People are replaceable, service sucks, low morale, bad and corrupt management, colluding with government, nepotism, etc etc.?I used to think it was just an individual problem with the company I was working with but it's pervasive in the private sector. Since most of my trips to the third world have been to Latin America I see a lot of similarities with a sensationalist press, biased media, major cities being rich/poor. It's not on that level of bad but I've seen a drop in quality in almost about everything except technology. That's where we still shine.The problem is trickle down economy the ones at the top of the food chain pay themselves first then the rest. So when they say that wages are going up, who's wages??Wages for American middle class have seen the slowest increases in the last 2 decades. While CEOs, directors, and higher ups keep going up exponentially.?Yahoo for example, the CEO gets paid hundreds of millions in salary and then gets another huge golden parachute to leave while those getting pink slips only gets a few weeks worth of pay.That's our biggest problem is trickle down economy doesn't work for society. The huge income inequalities and entitlements that come from few at the top causes all of this disparaging sentiments towards a company.Quote:Originally Posted by?timberline742?Fully agree.How are they run much better now? I'll give you there was a good ol boy network but nepotism is still rampant especially at the highest level. Technology has improved immensely but quality is not as great, things are easily replaceable, things seem a bit kite cutthroat, there is low morale at a lot of companies. Wages are stagnant yet prices keep rising. We all have to do more with less.Originally Posted by?radiolibre99?How are they run much better now? I'll give you there was a good ol boy network but nepotism is still rampant especially at the highest level. Technology has improved immensely but quality is not as great, things are easily replaceable, things seem a bit kite cutthroat, there is low morale at a lot of companies. Wages are stagnant yet prices keep rising. We all have to do more with less.I disagree with much of what you just said. Industries are so competitive now across the board, that really horrible senior management pretty much can ruin a company in a matter of a few years. Back in the days a company could be toxic as hell, and since they had few competitors, they could get away with this with impunity.The issue is really job security for employees. This does not mean the company is dysfunctional. It just means they don't have a need to retain employees, or they can profit without the expense of an employee. I don't think a job keeping a lot of dead weight on staff runs better than a company that runs lean and hire slow.?As far as wages are concerned, you, like much of the workforce have an outdated idea of why you're suppose to work. You honestly take whatever job makes you attractive to the next job. It's not about job security as much as it's about career security. If you're waiting for 1 company to eventually get around to paying you a competitive salary you're doing it wrong.Yep, most are. The only thing that matters is making as much money in as little time as possible with expenses as low as possible without losing too much business (some loss due to obscene cost cutting seems to be acceptable...). This has led to most companies being horribly run and horrible to work for.The difference between For Profit and Not For Profit (note: not the same thing as Non-Profit).In my personal experience, the second kind seems to do far better in terms of management quality and employee/customer satisfaction than the first.So I am going to graduate college in May so I look at job postings in my prospective field from time to time to see you know, what the future looks like.I found a job that's in my field and according to the company website it says entry-level! Now, I am finding a hard time finding a job that actually means entry-level without being an unpaid internship. So I scrolled down experience, and guess what it says, FOUR YEARS of experience! And internships don't count! On top of that, it is requiring certifications which require work experience as I have looked up these certifications.So how exactly is that entry level? Professional certifications, which require work experience, and four years of non-internship work experience.When I graduate university I will have three internships, some professional certifications, hopefully this third one in the prospective field as the other two are not, I do have a letter of recommendation from a professor, good grades, it is just AMAZINGLY BLEAK for someone like me. Now, I assume that if these jobs didn't have enough applicants they'd look at someone with less experience, but is that really the case anymore? How are us youngins supposed to get in anywhere?Quote:Originally Posted by?Prickly Pear?So I am going to graduate college in May so I look at job postings in my prospective field from time to time to see you know, what the future looks like.I found a job that's in my field and according to the company website it says entry-level! Now, I am finding a hard time finding a job that actually means entry-level without being an unpaid internship. So I scrolled down experience, and guess what it says, FOUR YEARS of experience! And internships don't count! On top of that, it is requiring certifications which require work experience as I have looked up these certifications.So how exactly is that entry level? Professional certifications, which require work experience, and four years of non-internship work experience.When I graduate university I will have three internships, some professional certifications, hopefully this third one in the prospective field as the other two are not, I do have a letter of recommendation from a professor, good grades, it is just AMAZINGLY BLEAK for someone like me. Now, I assume that if these jobs didn't have enough applicants they'd look at someone with less experience, but is that really the case anymore? How are us youngins supposed to get in anywhere?Apply anyway, and explain that you plan on getting the certs in a cover letter. It never hurts to try. Sometimes employers will post for their ideal candidate but if you are motivated, sound like a good fit, and interview well, they may lax the "years experience" requirements. At least, this is what I have seen in my profession. It may be different in other professions.Quote:Originally Posted by?Basilide?Apply anyway, and explain that you plan on getting the certs in a cover letter. It never hurts to try. Sometimes employers will post for their ideal candidate but if you are motivated, sound like a good fit, and interview well, they may lax the "years experience" requirements. At least, this is what I have seen in my profession. It may be different in other professions.Well I am not ready yet, I am just looking to see what prospects look like. But as far as "entry-level" goes, it seems to mean a minimum of 3 years of work experience and like I said previously, certifications that require work experience.I'll have some career-related certifications by the time of graduation, but not all of the ones they are asking for.Originally Posted by?Prickly Pear?Well I am not ready yet, I am just looking to see what prospects look like. But as far as "entry-level" goes, it seems to mean a minimum of 3 years of work experience and like I said previously, certifications that require work experience.I'll have some career-related certifications by the time of graduation, but not all of the ones they are asking for.I would honestly take the years experience with a grain of salt. I have had interviewers tell me that the years experience was actually negotiable, even though the ad listed them as a requirement. It depends on the job, so if you see entry level requested, that is a clue they might be open to the right person whom has less experience.Originally Posted by?Basilide?I would honestly take the years experience with a grain of salt. I have had interviewers tell me that the years experience was actually negotiable, even though the ad listed them as a requirement. It depends on the job, so if you see entry level requested, that is a clue they might be open to the right person whom has less experience.Man I really hope that is the case. Otherwise it might as well be the Great Depression 2.0 for Millennials. It seems though the job market looks good if you are a Gen X or an old Millennial. I'm on the young end of the generation.This was at a hospital but not in a traditional clinical position, I know getting jobs in healthcare is sort of the go-to trend besides tech for stability and money and so on. So I think they are extra competitive. My field looks more at the public sector and relies a lot on the public sector (even in private sector) to do job duties. Government seems to be even more competitive, since it's known for being stable and good life balance despite lower pay. But my field is probably 90% public sector, and 10% private, if I had to take a guess. Maybe a little less drastic than that but still a heavy majority in government.I applied to a bunch of jobs that required a ton of experience. I ended up getting interviews and offers at some of them. Just apply anyway and see what happens.Originally Posted by?Prickly Pear?Well I am not ready yet, I am just looking to see what prospects look like. But as far as "entry-level" goes, it seems to mean a minimum of 3 years of work experience and like I said previously, certifications that require work experience.I'll have some career-related certifications by the time of graduation, but not all of the ones they are asking for.Also keep in mind that employers will post both the required qualification and the preferred qualifications in ads. I've applied for, and won, several positions where I met the required qualifications but not the preferred ones.Entry level means the lowest level positions in that department at that company. Those jobs requiring no experience would be "trainee." Even then, most employers will take someone with experience if available, over someone with none. It's simply good business to minimize the lost production time in training. The solution is internships, sadly there are not enough of those to go around, so it's going to be difficult to get a foot in the door at employers with a good career path.Typically entry level means lowest pay scale for that position. They may want certain experience, skills, certs, etc., but will also consider no experience candidates. You may just need to take what you can get and move up in the ranks once you establish some experience."All my best hires had significant experience with internships during and after college, because they were stellar in their field and didn't waste their time with part time jobs that were unrelated to the industry. They took a lowball salary too, showing their commitment to the workplace. They're not too worried, because they didn't have to work in college and they have rent assistance from their parents."-Hiring guy from half the industry in expensive cities.There is no entry level anymore. Companies are too CHEAP and LAZY to train and they expect to find a golden unicorn falling out of tree with 5 years experience for that actual job function they have that opening for, all the while having 4-6 years of education PLUS the applicant will need to be willing to be lowballed salary on the job offer.?In short, companies are completely idiotic with their hiring process and all they are doing is creating a revolving door employees with low morale or having to settle for lousy applicants in the long run because no one with worth is going to be stupid enough to take the job.THen they wonder why they can't retain employees, find any quality employees. You offer crap with no training, what the hell do you expect will happen? These types of companies don't deserve to be in business.Originally Posted by?Prickly Pear?So I am going to graduate college in May so I look at job postings in my prospective field from time to time to see you know, what the future looks like.I found a job that's in my field and according to the company website it says entry-level! Now, I am finding a hard time finding a job that actually means entry-level without being an unpaid internship. So I scrolled down experience, and guess what it says, FOUR YEARS of experience! And internships don't count! On top of that, it is requiring certifications which require work experience as I have looked up these certifications.So how exactly is that entry level? Professional certifications, which require work experience, and four years of non-internship work experience.When I graduate university I will have three internships, some professional certifications, hopefully this third one in the prospective field as the other two are not, I do have a letter of recommendation from a professor, good grades, it is just AMAZINGLY BLEAK for someone like me. Now, I assume that if these jobs didn't have enough applicants they'd look at someone with less experience, but is that really the case anymore? How are us youngins supposed to get in anywhere?I have come to realize that companies put everything they can possibly think of in a job posting, from job duties to education to experience, but rarely expect to find someone that meets all of the requirements. Really they do it because they know some people will be too afraid to even apply, so they are basically weeding out the people they know they definitely don't want.I would just apply and in your cover letter explain how, even though you may not meet all of the requirements they desire, you have experience in X, Y, and Z and why that experience will help you excel in the position.At the end of the day, don't let job descriptions dissuade you from even applying.As a side note, that company is dreaming if they think a person with 4 years of experience will accept an entry level position.As a side note, that company is dreaming if they think a person with 4 years of experience will accept an entry level position.Entry level, is often understood. It may not mean the lowest level of education with no experience, that so many posters seem to think it means. It means that is the lowest level in their company, and lists what their requirements are if you want to work there. It says we only hire people that meet or exceed this level.?The big reason.?It greatly reduces the chance they will be sued for discrimination, rejecting someone of a minority race, sex, sexual orientation, etc.?Quote:There is no entry level anymore. Companies are too CHEAP and LAZY to train and they expect to find a golden unicorn falling out of tree with 5 years experience for that actual job function they have that opening for, all the while having 4-6 years of education PLUS the applicant will need to be willing to be lowballed salary on the job offer.?They keep doing it, because they will get enough qualified applicants that they will fill their new hires goals. They no longer want to train, because they know the attitude of the young generation just starting out that take a job and within 2 years just as they are starting to be trained and productive, they quit to move on to another job. The young employees today, have taught the companies it is too expensive to hire someone with no experience and train them, as you will never get a return on the time and money you invest in that person.?In short, companies are completely idiotic with their hiring process and all they are doing is creating a revolving door employees with low morale or having to settle for lousy applicants in the long run because no one with worth is going to be stupid enough to take the job.THen they wonder why they can't retain employees, find any quality employees. You offer crap with no training, what the hell do you expect will happen? These types of companies don't deserve to be in business.They are in the business to get the job done, and earn a profit. That is their goal. Doing it the way they do, gives them exactly what they want today.Simply because there is a glut of experienced workers willing to work for whatever.Originally Posted by?Grizzly Addams?...As a side note, that company is dreaming if they think a person with 4 years of experience will accept an entry level position.methinks that the job would actually be veteran-level but the salary is entry-level.Originally Posted by?Serious Conversation?Simply because there is a glut of experienced workers willing to work for whatever.Not really the issue for us. There's a bunch of Baby Boomers retiring, and the recent downturn eliminated most of the succession planning from the equation. At my work, we need experienced people to keep the wheels turning, and we can't waste months training a new hire with no experience while someone else has to pull their weight while they learn. I've had 40% of the department retire in the last two years, and another 20% eligible over the next 3 years. I need experienced people to fill those shoes.Not ideal, but it's reality.Originally Posted by?Prickly Pear?So I am going to graduate college in May so I look at job postings in my prospective field from time to time to see you know, what the future looks like.I found a job that's in my field and according to the company website it says entry-level! Now, I am finding a hard time finding a job that actually means entry-level without being an unpaid internship. So I scrolled down experience, and guess what it says, FOUR YEARS of experience! And internships don't count! On top of that, it is requiring certifications which require work experience as I have looked up these certifications.So how exactly is that entry level? Professional certifications, which require work experience, and four years of non-internship work experience.When I graduate university I will have three internships, some professional certifications, hopefully this third one in the prospective field as the other two are not, I do have a letter of recommendation from a professor, good grades, it is just AMAZINGLY BLEAK for someone like me. Now, I assume that if these jobs didn't have enough applicants they'd look at someone with less experience, but is that really the case anymore? How are us youngins supposed to get in anywhere?Hi Prickly Pear,I am a newly minted college grad and looking for a job.I have noticed the same problem as you because whenever I look at entry level positions in the paper they always wants years of experience.-WTHere is the job posting (took out employer's name):Quote:Job descriptionThe Area Safety and Emergency Management Coordinator will be responsible for overseeing the Environmental Safety and Emergency Management programs for XXXX outpatient and support facilities/services. The coordinator will be assigned a territory around the Greater Tucson area. Regular travel with personal vehicle within the assigned territory will be necessary. Travel will be reimbursed based on the XXXX Mileage reimbursement policy.Essential Functions- This position recommends, interprets, and coordinates compliance with policies and procedures related to EH&S/EM issues, to maintain safety of patients, visitors and property of the facilities, within the regulations established by federal/state/local agencies. Helps to facilitate EH&S/EM strategic planning and development of goals and objectives. Coordinates the development and implementation of facility objectives/plans which align with the organizations strategic goals and objectives.- Leads the investigation and analysis of identified potential EH&S/EM problems relative to employees, patients and visitors. Assists with other EH&S/EM issues as needed. Oversees the facility hazard vulnerability analysis (HVA) process on an annual basis.?- Based on the HVA findings, plans, coordinates, and implements exercises and drills to test and improve readiness.?- Develops and delivers competency based training as identified. Supports the completion of identified Corrective Action Plans.- Manages the EH&S/EM programs and overall safety of patients, visitors and employees and coordinates EH&S/EM activities in all assigned areas. Acts as a back-up and provides support to the facility based EM Program Managers and EH&C Coordinators.- Maintains current applicable regulatory standards in EH&S/EM programs and oversees changes to maintain compliance. Reviews compliance with all pertinent aspects of the Environment of Care (EOC) and Emergency Management (EM) standards.- Acts as a change agent in development and implementation of EH&S/EM programs in assigned areas and throughout the organization. Maintains current knowledge of applicable regulations and best practices including the Joint Commission, local, state, federal, OSHA, NIMS, and other EH&S/EM related regulations.- Establishes and maintains relationships with the community including other healthcare/pre-hospital agencies and local, state, and federal agencies.- Responsible for appropriate EH&S/ EM meeting oversight and participation in XXXX committees that are required to integrate OTC facilities into existing functions such as Security, Equipment Management, Hazardous Materials and Waste Management.Minimum QualificationsAt least 4 years of healthcare based experience in environmental health and safety and knowledge of the Environment of Care (EOC). In addition, must possess strong knowledge and understanding of disaster planning, emergency management or emergency preparedness. Must demonstrate knowledge of disaster management regulations and compliance. Requires excellent interpersonal, oral and written communication skills.Preferred QualificationsBachelors Degree preferred as well as pertinent professional and industry specific certifications.I found this on LinkedIn, and it says entry-level on the side. So either A) not actually entry-level, B) entry-level pay wanting experience, or err, something else.Originally Posted by?Darrett?Not really the issue for us. There's a bunch of Baby Boomers retiring, and the recent downturn eliminated most of the succession planning from the equation. At my work, we need experienced people to keep the wheels turning, and we can't waste months training a new hire with no experience while someone else has to pull their weight while they learn. I've had 40% of the department retire in the last two years, and another 20% eligible over the next 3 years. I need experienced people to fill those shoes.Not ideal, but it's reality.Businesses did it to themselves.?When no company is willing to train it is only a matter of time, as workers retire, that there won't be enough experienced workers to hire.If you aren't continually developing your workforce it is a great way to hurt your business long term.Businesses knew well in advance that they where going to have a large amount of workers retiring in a very short time. There was ample time for them to plan for it.It isn't entry level... linkedin misclassified it description says to oversee outpatient program, not entry level... also wants an agent of change, again not someone with no industry experienceOriginally Posted by?Prickly Pear?So I am going to graduate college in May so I look at job postings in my prospective field from time to time to see you know, what the future looks like.I found a job that's in my field and according to the company website it says entry-level! Now, I am finding a hard time finding a job that actually means entry-level without being an unpaid internship. So I scrolled down experience, and guess what it says, FOUR YEARS of experience! And internships don't count! On top of that, it is requiring certifications which require work experience as I have looked up these certifications.So how exactly is that entry level? Professional certifications, which require work experience, and four years of non-internship work experience.When I graduate university I will have three internships, some professional certifications, hopefully this third one in the prospective field as the other two are not, I do have a letter of recommendation from a professor, good grades, it is just AMAZINGLY BLEAK for someone like me. Now, I assume that if these jobs didn't have enough applicants they'd look at someone with less experience, but is that really the case anymore? How are us youngins supposed to get in anywhere?Same problem that I had. I started looking near the end of my schooling and it took about 2 years to get a position. Aside from 90% of the positions listed for my field (software development) being for senior level, the very few entry level positions that were posted were talking about 3-5 years of experience. That's not entry level. By definition, ENTRY level includes 0 experience. That's what it is;entering?the field. Agree that it doesn't make a drop of sense. Every entry level position I saw was actually describing a mid level position.Originally Posted by?PhoenixSomeday?Same problem that I had. I started looking near the end of my schooling and it took about 2 years to get a position. Aside from 90% of the positions listed for my field (software development) being for senior level, the very few entry level positions that were posted were talking about 3-5 years of experience. That's not entry level. By definition, ENTRY level includes 0 experience. That's what it is;?entering?the field. Agree that it doesn't make a drop of sense. Every entry level position I saw was actually describing a mid level position.It's actually entry-level pay. Companies put "entry-level" so they can get away with paying someone at mid-level for peanuts.Entry level is the new mid level. It's an employers market and they can play this game to their liking. When I started college, entry level jobs in my target position wanted 0-2 years of experience. When I graduated those same jobs wanted 3-5 years of experience. Well ****....?The new thing to look for in my opinion are junior level roles and contracts/internships. You'll be paid crap in a junior role, but at least you get you're foot in the door and can start gaining experience and getting paid. Contracts will pay more and possible to get because usually they just need a body to throw at a problem for a few months, but of course the downside here is that the contract is short term and ends.?All and all, this is the new job marketplace. Try looking for Junior roles in your field.Originally Posted by?the_grimace?Entry level is the new mid level. It's an employers market and they can play this game to their liking. When I started college, entry level jobs in my target position wanted 0-2 years of experience. When I graduated those same jobs wanted 3-5 years of experience. Well ****....?The new thing to look for in my opinion are junior level roles and contracts/internships. You'll be paid crap in a junior role, but at least you get you're foot in the door and can start gaining experience and getting paid. Contracts will pay more and possible to get because usually they just need a body to throw at a problem for a few months, but of course the downside here is that the contract is short term and ends.?All and all, this is the new job marketplace. Try looking for Junior roles in your field.Hmm, aren't internships also in the same dire straits? Many of them are still unpaid despite talks of labor laws prohibiting this (which I don't know if it ever passed or not).Originally Posted by?ackmondual?Hmm, aren't internships also in the same dire straits? Many of them are still unpaid despite talks of labor laws prohibiting this (which I don't know if it ever passed or not).In my experience, most internships are paid and can potentially lead to junior level roles with the company. The problem is that they are hyper competitive. Many programs also recruit up SEVERAL months in advance. For example, I know one big company in my area that started recruiting for Summer 2017 (June 1 - Aug 30) interns in August 2016. I believe the process wraps up this November!I have seen very few unpaid internships. Most have been in the entertainment industry, and ironically, government. There is a scary amount of internships on that are unpaid....Originally Posted by?the_grimace?In my experience, most internships are paid and can potentially lead to junior level roles with the company. The problem is that they are hyper competitive. Many programs also recruit up SEVERAL months in advance. For example, I know one big company in my area that started recruiting for Summer 2017 (June 1 - Aug 30) interns in August 2016. I believe the process wraps up this November!I have seen very few unpaid internships. Most have been in the entertainment industry, and ironically, government. There is a scary amount of internships on that are unpaid....Even internships are not guaranteed and yes I would argue that landing an internship is almost as hard as landing a "real job". And then one has to ask "if internships are your "In" to X company, what happens if you don't get the internship, will you ever be able to land a job at X company r are you just screwed?"?For instance my company brought in 1 Graphic design intern over the past summer. Grats to the person who got it, but I have to ask what happens to all her classmates who didn't get the internship -especially in a field as competitive as graphic design where your portfolio, your professional work is everything. ................
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