Ichthys



THE REALITY OF THE CHRISTIAN CALLING AND WALK I

Question #1:

I have been an atheist for more than seven years now and looking back, I am yet to see what I have missed not worshiping God.

This is a summary of my life since I became an atheist

- wake up in the morning

- plan my day

- eat, exercise and work toward achieving my goals

- go to work, remember loves ones, check up on them and hangout with friends

- get home sleep.

Life has had its ups and downs, but I have pretty much been a giver than a receiver and got married now with a handsome son (despite somebody's prayers for my marriage to fail).

I still don't understand why anyone should worship any God.

So I ask theist... Tell me just two thing that makes it life as a theists better than mine.

If u can come up with two things that makes worshiping God worth it, I will look into my life evaluate, see if I miss such and maybe give worshiping God a try.

Response #1:

In my opinion, this may only be another bait thread for Christians. It seems to me that you made your choice and lived it for seven years and you like your experience. So I cannot see what you would expect Christians to tell you. I would expect that you would dismiss Christianity as a fool's dream and ignore Christians while carrying on with this wonderful life you have made for yourself without God in it.

But, for what it is worth, I will humor you.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Truth that we Christians follow is not primarily about this life. Not many of us believers will have that easy a life. Many of us suffer broken marriages as a direct result of our Faith. Many of us suffer penury or at least economic "mediocrity" because we prioritize God's Truth. That is not to say that following Christ necessarily leads to misery. In fact, even in our sufferings, those of us who want to follow the Lord and stick to the program do find a joy and peace that cannot be explained by our circumstances. So, it is not about misery although being a Christian guarantees more suffering in this life than being an unbeliever will.

What Christians endure everything we endure for is the hope we have for the world to come. We look forward to a Resurrection whereby we will be rescued permanently from suffering. We look forward to eternal rewards and riches and glory that this world has not even a prayer at equalling. We look forward to a New Earth and New Heavens where everything is perfect and there is no more evil or injustice of any kind. That is what our true gain is.

For us, this life is a war, a labor, a test that we must endure everyday. We accept the gifts of work, family, friends and entertainment as some of the things the Lord gives us to make our journey bearable for us. But these things are not what we are Christians for. As your own experience proves, even a staunch atheist can have them and have them in abundance. Very few of the wealthiest people in the world are Christians after all. But only Christians expect what we have in this life to be made infinitely better in eternity.

Question #2:

I could but I have to practically shut my ears to Christian rantings... If only Christians practice the live and let live they preach. Recall this tread was create based on real life experience. People disturb me a lot with nonsense.

Cool

In order words the worship of God is useless to life on earth... Only necessary for the hope of after life?

A.. Whats the difference between hoping for after life and not caring about after life?

Thanks... So far, I see no reason why I should fast, vigil, pray, .... For me one thing I miss about Christianity is worship... I love singing and enjoying my own praise songs like I am the God I am singing to.

I still do it sometimes... Otherwise, I don't miss the guilt, need to please, feeling like I owe my life to anything, feeling like I am being watched, need to pretend, fasting, staying up all night, time wasted in praying...

I think being a atheist rocks.

Response #2:

I can sympathize with you on that. But it is my policy to ignore things that I have decided have no value in my life. Perhaps you should do the same. It does make for something of a quieter, more focused life.

That would be the wrong way to read what I said. Life in this world for us Christians is a fight. It is a fight for everyone really but only Christians are actually taking on the enemy here. For that reason, following God is enormously important to us. In following Christ, we gain not only the resources but the training and company we need to get from here to the Goal that God set for all human beings.

Being a Christian, for example, gives me a different perspective on work, family/friends and entertainment - if I am doing a good job of being a Christian, that is - than you as an unbeliever possess.

I'm afraid I don't understand your question.

Rock on then, friend.

I do admit that while there is a great deal of value in fasting, it is something that I find very imprudent to do in my own life. And I neither attend nor particularly recommend vigils to anyone. I think it would take special circumstances for me to do so. As for prayer, what could a believer do without it? In an earthly army, supply lines are everything. Being able to put in a request and have it met is a huge morale booster for any army. How much more for believers fighting through this world?

But I think the real problem here may be a poor understanding of Christianity on your part. I don't say that to insult you. It is entirely possible that you were a Christian for several years before you decided to become an atheist. But not everything that wears a label is true to its name. Christianity, first and foremost, is about faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. That's it: just believing in the Lord Jesus Christ Who was God but also took on humanity so that He could die for our sins and rescue us from certain eternal condemnation.

Then after that is a diligent commitment to learning the Truth of the Bible and adapting to it through the help of the Holy Spirit. And this is something you do not only in the Power of God but with responsibility to God alone so that the pressure of "appearing holy" to other people really has no place in true Christianity. Anyone who is diligent in the Truth eventually finds themselves changing in the best and most authentic way so that they know for sure that God is pleased with them and man cannot really and honestly find fault with them. But this is not to say that we can be perfect, no. Our bodies are corrupted with sin so perfection will remain out of reach until the Resurrection. But we will certainly find that in all the ways that it truly matters, we are becoming better people.

So, it's not about a mechanical system of praying, fasting, going to vigils, attending church every Sunday and not doing this or making sure to do that. If anything is a good thing to do or a bad thing that we should abstain from, as we continue to learn the Truth and believe it, we soon find inside of ourselves both the desire and the strength to do it or abstain from it as the case may be. How it happens is nothing short of miraculous in my experience. I had quite given up on myself before I learned this. And I am sharing it with you in case you might be willing to consider it.

Question #3:

unfortunately u really cannot advise me on how i react to things i see in life.

i simply challenged u to tell me just tow things u enjoy in THIS life as a christian that i dont enjoy as an atheist. if there is none, tell me there is non. your answer above has nothing to do with my question.

you are doing a good job being a christian and i am also doing a good job being a atheist. pls what two things about life as a christian makes you better than me, an atheist.

you live ur life hoping for a better after life, i live my life not caring one bit after after life... what's the difference between me and u

thanks

since u fast and pray, tell me two things about ur life that are better than mine.

Christianity is all about Faith in Christ, and this is what you think i dont understand about Christianity? what else should i think Christianity is? what has this got to do with my question?

ok... so what two things do you have as a christian that i dont have as an atheist.

pls answer my question... thanks

Response #3:

It's your life. I don't presume to know how to live it better than you. I was only saying that there may be an alternative to starting threads like this one when Christians make a point of troubling you because of your choices.

I already answered that.

It is for the Lord to decide whether or not I am doing a good job as a Christian.

What we call hope is confidence concerning something we cannot see yet. Just thought to explain that a little more.

My confusion is that you just stated the difference between you and me so I am not sure what you expect me to say in answer to your question.

As I said, fasting is imprudent and impractical for me although it is a very valuable exercise but, yes, I do pray.

I was only explaining that Christianity is not a checklist of activities as you seemed to me to think it is.

My answer was in my first post.

Question #4:

This is not what the thread is all about.

No u haven't. Ur response actually suggested God is useless to this life but Christian only hold unto him for hope of internal life... U are here to believe and suffer for Christ while hoping for a better after life. U have said nothing to show ur life as a christian will be better than mine as an atheist.

In fact, I challenge you to name one thing (instead of 2) that makes ur life on earth better as a christian than mine as an atheist.

OK... So back to my question.

Oga how does ur hoping in after life and me not caring about after life make u a better human than me.

Errrr... Still waiting for my answer

I know what Christianity is

No u havent

Response #4:

I have no concept what you mean here.

I refer you again to my first post. I made no claims regarding having a better life here on earth. In fact, I told you that if you have such a wonderful life here on earth without God and like it too, then it makes no sense to be so troubled about what Christians believe and try to push on you. Your whole concern is what you can get in this life and you have got it and are getting it. You should be happy and unconcerned about whatever it is we Christians are so gung-ho about. That was what I told you.

Then I told you explicitly that this life is a war for Christians, a test and a labor so we have a harder time of it than unbelievers do. So, it is not about this life for us but about the world to come. But you interpreted that to mean that God is useless for this life and I told you that that was the wrong way to read what I said. Clearly, Christians would not survive this war without God's Help. Some, like yourself for example, have given up and just deserted Christ's Army and joined up with the Enemy to actively attack and damage the Church now. Many more are just avoiding the fight but refusing to fully desert themselves, that is, they are incredibly lukewarm. The very few who take it seriously enough to really push hard for progress are not having anything like an easy time in this life. They wouldn't last a moment without God's Help. And God helps them in a vast number of ways with jobs or economic support in one form or another, family and friends, sometimes devoted spouses and whatnot. God gives them just the right sort of help they need to keep marching forward. So, of course, God is critical to them in this life. They don't think the world is all that even if you do. But they are not irresponsible Luddites either. They live life in this world like responsible people and try to get what good gifts God gives to soothe the pain of this world but more than that they fight for a far better world than this one can ever be.

I'm not sure then how else I can answer you.

About the following:

"I know what Christianity is"

Your words seemed to me to suggest otherwise.

Question #5:

Here lies my answer. So worshiping is just usless to humans while on earth. Except the hope u have for heaven l, which makes not difference to our life in the long run while on earth.

We have been over this and I believe I have given u the response that best fits this... U are not in the position to tell me how I react to christian behavior towards me.

Off point

Is a life of war supposed to prove that u live a better life as a christian than an atheist? So the reason why Christian preach to non believers is to invite them to a life of war, test labour and harder times while u wait for a world to come? What kind of life is that?

In other words an atheist can live same life u live as a Christian even without Gods help. However a christian lives a live of hardship , labour , war and test but God gives him a help to go through the test... (He he, god tests u and helps u go through the test) and also help them to live the same life an atheists lives without God... Christianity sounds like a bad option here don't u think?

I know what Christianity is

Response #5:

I am human incidentally. And so are all the Christians I spoke of. And I described how believing in Jesus Christ makes a difference to our lives. I don't see the connection between that and what you say here.

The fact that I point out an inconsistency in your actions and words us not the same as telling you what to do.

How so?

I would have to make an argument that we live a better life in order to be proving it, would I not? Have I made such an argument so far?

We call unbelievers to escape the sure Anger of God that is coming. That is what leads to the whole war. But the war is necessary to separate those who really want to be with God from those who don't.

The life a believer lives and the one that an atheist lives are different. The principles governing them are diametrically opposed to each other.

Perhaps. I just didn't see that you did from what you said.

Question #6:

Your answer in the post did not Christianity is a better life that than atheism... The reason why Christians need God (according to ur post) is to help them through a life of war, test, and hardship... Something an atheist does not have to go through to live same fulfilled life every Christian crave for

Response #6:

The majority of Christians do indeed crave the sweet things of this life even to the point of going AWOL in the army. But the craving is not itself consistent with the Faith. So, it is not actually right to think that we become Christians because we crave this "fulfilled life" you refer to. Rather, Christians drop out of the fight mostly because they crave this "fulfilled life".

Question #7:

What difference does believing in Jesus Christ make that makes ur life better as a Christian than mine as an atheist.

I am reacting Christian preaching all around me all day... Let it go... This has nothing to do with the op.

So what's ur argument? That u live better or not?

Anger of God that is coming... In another news Christians will b like 'god does not put anyone in hell people chose to go there' what's he going to be angy for exactly?

All these are not what I am asking u sha... It seems there is nothing,not even one thing Christians enjoy on earth as Christians that atheists don't.

I know, that's why I am asking u the benefit of one over the other. Me think there is not difference hence I am wondering why anyone would bother about a seemingly useless God.

Response #7:

Believers aren't the only ones in this war. It's an all-encompassing war.

On one side is God Whose Will is being carried out by the elect angels and by faithful human beings. On the other is Satan and the rebellious angels aided very often by faithless human beings to oppose God's Will.

For now, because of a kind of truce that has persisted for a while, there is a large middle ground where many of God's human troops are avoiding battle and many humans while technically on Satan's side are largely useless to him. In the Tribulation which is coming very soon indeed, this middle ground will be all but wiped out and nearly everyone will be forced to pick a side.

For Satan, the objective is to prevent human beings from actually giving their allegiance to God or sustaining that allegiance until the end of their lives. This is because human beings were created to replace him and the rebel angels after they rebelled. If he cannot prevent either of those things from occurring, he tries to prevent those who choose for God from actually being useful to Him by helping others either to make the same choice or to sustain it. That is his play. This is why the world's good things were made so enticing by him. They exist to a large extent to distract human beings who would otherwise follow God faithfully and be useful in doing so.

So, while we believers in Jesus Christ do desire and ask from God and receive from Him much that you unbelievers value such as work, family, friends and entertainment, the ones among us who take the Faith seriously understand that these things can easily be turned against us by our Enemy so while we work to get them and ask and receive them from God, we prioritize them below our Faith and its constraints upon us. That is what it means to "take up your cross daily and follow [Christ]".

Those who live life like that are living it right and will therefore not only escape the Coming Wrath and Judgment of God but will in fact receive unimaginable rewards for it along with Eternal Life.

So, as I said before, even though you have dropped out of the fight and Satan rewarded you for doing so with trinkets and very little overt aggression anymore (he does not love you any more now though. He hates every last human being because each one is a potential replacement for him and thus a guarantee of sorts for his eternal destruction) so that, like most unbelievers, you have possibly better external circumstances than most believers, especially serious believers, if we factor in what is coming for every human being and the comfort that God gives believers as we continually engage with the battles each day brings, then you may be having less than you think.

My answer then would be - as you will also find in my first post - that as far as your definition of "the good life" goes per your opening post, Christianity does not offer you anything that unbelief cannot get you in this life. In fact, Christianity makes you possibly a worse offer - as far as this life is concerned: real action in a real war against an incredibly agile and particularly hateful enemy but with all of God's Comfort and Help to bring you all the way through to the other side safely.

Whether you decide to fight or not fight for or against God or Satan though, I must repeat, every human being is involved in this business one way or another and everyone has the same concern: God is coming back to judge the world. How we choose to deal with that is up to us and is not devoid of its consequences.

................
................

In order to avoid copyright disputes, this page is only a partial summary.

Google Online Preview   Download