The L.C. Smith Collectors Association



L.C. Smith - Syracuse Guns

1886-1888

By J. David Williamson

There are no existing records for the shotguns produced by L.C. Smith in Syracuse. The serial number range is thought to be between 15,000-22,500.

What is known is that they were made in 10 gauge and 12 gauge with 30” and 32” barrels. All barrels were Damascus, and the Grades ranged from Quality 2 through Quality 7. Price was Quality 2- $80.00 and Quality 7- $450.00,

In doing this research, I have come to the conclusion that guns with serial numbers in the 16xxx, 18xxx, 19xxx, 20xxx, and up to 22500 are hammerless shotguns and 15xxx, 17xxx, 21xxx, 24,xxx and 25xxx and 26xxx range are hammer guns.

From an old 3” x 6” notepad that Lyman Cornelius Smith handed down upon selling the gun works, the Syracuse L.C. Smith records for the first year of hammerless shotguns show that 281 were produced. Fifteen were returned for credit leaving 266 guns sold the first year. (from Brophy’s L.C. Smith Shotguns, 1977).

The hammerless shotgun went into production in August, 1886. Production totals by month were:

August 14

September 96

October 73

November 82

December 66

Total 281

Returns - 15

266 Total sold August to December, 1886

Production stopped sometime in 1888 when Lyman C. Smith, Maker, sold the company to John Hunter. Also records for 1888 include no production figures. During the period of 1888 to 1890, machinery and equipment was being moved from Syracuse to Fulton (about 30 miles). Once in Fulton, changes were made in the design. Shotguns from Syracuse finished in Fulton have the Fulton address, but serial numbers reflect Syracuse origin. (from Brophy’s book page 193). There are recorded instances where Syracuse shotguns were sent to Fulton for re-barreling, and there are recorded serial numbers that overlap Syracuse shotguns with Fulton shotguns.

This can be seen on a few of the serial numbers listed *, too low for Fulton but have the shape and the convex lumps of the Syracuse shotgun. Very early Fulton guns also have this feature.** It has been noted that some have been seen with the squared lug, and we now have pictures of a few in the 30-31xxx serial number range.

The records for serial numbers 22501-27765 are lost, and are Fulton shotguns.

This would have to be after 22501 because 22631 has its original hang tag from Syracuse. See L.C. Smith “The Legend Lives” page 488.

Patent numbers and dates:

First patent #274,435 March 20, 1883, Breech-loading mechanism, joint and ejector system.

Some guns are have a patent date of March 29,’83

Second patent #345,362 July 13, 1886, lock mechanism for concealed hammer guns (L.C. Smith Hammerless shotgun)

Third patent #350,109 October 5, 1886 Safety catch for gun locks, (Automatic and Independent safety-3 position)

1884-1886 L.C. Smith hammer guns

10020 Quality E 10 ga. 32” barrels stub twist

10046 Quality F 10 ga. 30” barrels stub twist

10203 Quality E 12 ga. Cut barrels

10362 Quality E 12 ga. 19 ¼” (cut), L.C. Smith Maker,

Syracuse, N.Y.

10385 Quality D 10 ga. 30” barrels, 8 lb.10 oz.

Syracuse butt plate

10501 Quality E 12 ga. 30” barrels

109xx Quality E 12 ga.

11233 Quality F 10 ga. 32” barrels, original butt plate

(Gunbroker 11-10 pictures)

11569 Quality E 10 ga. 28” barrels cut

11946 Quality E 10 ga. 30” barrels

12024 Quality D 12 ga. -44-40 Combo gun with 30”

barrels

12094 Quality E 10 ga. 30” barrels

12231 Quality F 10 ga. 30” barrels

12858 Quality F 10 ga?

12952 Quality F 10 ga. 32” barrels, 10 lb. 8 oz.

13229 Quality E 10 ga. 32” barrels, 11 lb. 8 oz., 3”

chambers

13326 Quality F 10 ga. 28 ¼” barrels Stub Twist (cut)

13483 Quality F 12 ga. (dog with foot on rock)

135xx Quality F 12 ga. 30” Stub Twist barrels (pictures)

14438 Quality F 12 ga. 30” barrels Stub Twist

14497 Quality C 10 ga.

14629 Quality F 12 ga. Barrels cut to 18 ½” WF & Co.

Ex stamped on receiver (Wells Fargo and Com.), Gun Broker

1886-1888 Hammer and Hammerless L.C. Smiths

Italics, hammer guns

^15060 Quality E 10 ga. 32” barrels

151xx Quality F 10 ga.

^15624 Quality E 12 ga. 30” barrels

15279 Quality F 12 ga. 30” barrels, Sub Twist

^15750 Quality E 10 ga. 30” barrels

^15754 Quality E 10 ga. 32” barrel, 10 lb. 8 oz., 3” chambers

^15996 Quality E 10 ga. 32” barrels

16036 Quality 3 10 ga. 32” barrels, (no patent dates), (pictures)

16200 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels, 1 1/8 c/c firing pins

^16211 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels

16272 Quality 10 ga. Pat’ date of only Mar.20 ,’83, so gun has to be early production of 1886 when the hammerless first came out (from “L.C. Smith Shotguns )

162xx Quality 2 10 ga. 28” barrels (catalog states 30” or 32” barrels)

16294 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels

16xxx Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels, (possibly heavy frame)

16342 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels, 1886

16344 Quality 2 10 ga. 29 ½” barrels (cut, probably 32” once), pictures, not original butt plate (.013 in one choke)

16362 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels

16397 Quality 2 12 ga. (one patent date-Mar.29,’83)

16425 Quality 2 10 ga. 29.8” barrels (one patent date), 8 lb. 4 oz.

^16447 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels

^16453 Quality 4 12 ga. 30” barrels

^16464 Quality 5 10 ga. 32” barrels

16510 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels

*16566 Quality 2 12 ga. (barrels cut to 26 1/8”), (all three patent dates), Dogs head escutcheon on forend, rounded lug-Fulton shaped side plates

^16576 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels (on Gun Broker being sold 6-5-2011 original s/n number from Russ Ruppel’s research)

16656 Quality 4 12 ga. 30“ barrels (all three patent dates.) , Date: Oct-Dec, 1886, (pictures) pistol grip- capped, wrong re-case & blue

*16750 Quality 4 12 ga. 30” barrels

^16764 Quality 3 10 ga. 32” barrels

16765 Quality 3 12 ga. 29 13/16” barrels (could be 30”)

16769 Quality 3 10 ga. 30” barrels m/f (listed as 90% condition) full capped pistol grip, Trap Gun butt plate, (pictures)

^16775 Quality 3 10 ga. 30” barrels

^16776 Quality 3 10 ga. 32” barrels (only Mar.20,’83 patent date), 2.76 rec.

16804 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels (only Mar.20,’83 patent date)

16864 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels (dog and duck Trap Gun butt plate)

*16905 (Catalog 1888, testimonial from customer dated April 16, 1887 that he received gun one week ago today), 1st Qtr. 1887 made

16936 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels

16992 Quality 3 10 ga. 32” barrels

17106 Quality F 12 ga. 32” barrels (Guns America)

17308 Quality F 10 ga. 32” barrels

^17609 Quality D 12 ga. 30” barrel, scroll 28 lpi checkering

^17675 Quality F 12 ga. 32” barrels, trap gun-line engraving

17739 Quality F 12 ga. 30” barrels

17843 Quality F 10 ga. 30” barrels

17862 Quality F 10 ga. 30” barrel, good condition

^17870 Quality F 10 ga. ? barrels

17883 Quality F 10 ga. 30” barrels

17905 Quality E 10 ga.

17912 Quality E 12 ga. 30” barrels

17914 Quality F 12 ga. 32” barrels

17961 Quality F 10 ga. Stub twist barrels (marked Syracuse N.Y.)

18055 Quality 2 10 ga. 31” barrels-cut

18082 Quality 4 gun is parted out, Grouse with young and weasel, other side woodcock

*18123 Quality 2 12 ga. 26” & 30” barrels

18154 10 ga. from an early 1889 L.C. Smith catalog. Testimonial from customer dated July 31, 1887 saying he patterned gun and results were better than hang tag. Arrived at 10 ga from powder used in tests.

^18168 Quality 2 10 ga. 28” barrels (possibly cut or special order)

18173 Quality 2 10 ga. 30”

18185 Quality 3 10 ga. 32” barrels 10 lb. 2 oz., Trap butt plate

18192 Quality 3 12 ga. 30” barrels

18239 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels, 11 lb. 2 oz.

18255 Quality 4 16 ga. now 26” barrels (barrels made in Fulton to 16 ga., have Hunter Arms, Fulton on ext. rib.)

18291 Quality 2 10 ga. 28” barrels (cut?), original butt plate

18324 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels 10 lb., bores: .801/798 (thought to be 8 ga.)

18325 Quality 2 10 ga. 28” barrels (cut) butt plate original but very worn

18337 Quality 2 10 ga

18358 Quality 3 10 ga. 30” barrels, original butt plate, dog on trigger guard

18397 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels, original butt plate

18414 Quality 4 12 ga. 28” barrels (not s/n to gun, barrels and forend s/n 19335), forend dogs head escutcheon missing (not a Syracuse trait)

^18415 Quality 4 12 ga. 30” barrels,(birds and sculptured balls.)

18465 Quality 3 10 ga. 30” barrels

^18510 Quality 6 10 ga. 32” barrels (gold dog on trigger guard)

18512 Quality 3 10 ga. 32” barrels (2 barrel set, only #2 with gun)

^18557 Quality 2 12 ga. 28” barrels (possibly cut or special order)

18560 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels (Dogs head butt plate) 8 lb. 6 oz.

18587 Quality 5 10 ga. 30” (Brophy’s book) Jacob Glahn engraved & signed, Pictures. (stock has added piece on pistol grip, might have originally been straight stock), 8 lb. 14 oz.

18617 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels

18640 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels

^18660 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels (2.76” wide frame)

^18732 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels (1 inch stock extension dovetailed in)

18756 receiver parts put up for sale on Gun Broker

^18759 Quality 6 12 ga. 30” barrels, 6 gold inlays

18769 Quality 6 12 ga. 30“ barrels, “The Legend Lives” photo

18785 Quality 3 10 ga. 32“ barrels, “The Legend Lives” photo (John Houchins)

18815 Quality 2 10 ga. receiver only

^18843 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels, 10 lb. 5.8 oz., uncheckered?

^18928 Quality 3 12 ga. 32” barrels

18962 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels

18967 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” fluid steel barrels, (re-barreled ?) , pictures

18974 Quality 2 (Serial number from receiver and lock plates Brophy’s book pg. 46)

19008 Quality 2 10 ga.

19038 Quality 3 10 ga. 30” full/full

^19109 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels

19208 Quality 5 12 ga. 32” barrels, (returned to Fulton in 1901 for a set of A1 barrels)

19212

19283 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels, dogs head butt plate (owned by Terry Nix)

19311 Quality 2 10 ga.

19312 Quality 2 10 ga. Has patent date of Mar. 29?,’83

19320 Quality 2 10 ga. Barrels cut and honed out.

19335 Quality 4 12 ga. 28” barrels only (#4 on water table) on gun 18414 Qlty 4

^19377 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels

^19398 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels

19429 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels, Trap Grade butt plate

19478 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels

^19491 Quality 2 10 ga. barrels (re-barreled in steel)

19494 Quality 2 10 ga 30” barrels, L.C. Smith butt plate

19498 Quality 2 10 ga. re-barreled in Italy to steel in 1960, proofed

19500 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels

19513 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels original butt plate

19517 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels, 24 lpi checkering, 9 lb. 10.8 oz.

19593 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels

^19732 Quality 2 12 ga. 26” & 30” barrels, w/ 2 forends

^19746 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels, (barrels s/n 19475)

19767 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels

19773 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels

^19778 Quality 3 12 ga. 30” barrels

19932 Quality 4 10 ga. barrels have Fulton address (Fulton re-barrel), (From Russ’s info “birds marked “Hunter” on barrels, have pictures)

^19955 Quality 4 12 ga. 30” barrels, (small frame)

19966 Quality 2 12 ga.

19974 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels, 1 1/8” c/c firing pin, original butt plate

20112 Quality 2 10 ga 30” barrels fitted with hammer barrels s/n 10827, also has original set

20149 Quality 2 12 ga. 28” cut, (L.C. Smith Trap Gun butt plate orig.), barrels honed to .743

20187 Quality 2 12 ga.

20194 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” full/full, (recoil pad added)

20199 Quality 2 10 ga. 28 ½” (cut), -9 lb. on bathroom scale

20202 Quality 4 10 ga. Engravings of woodcock on right, 2 partridge on left, Setter on point on trigger guard, (pictures)

20279 10 ga.

20283 Quality 2 10 ga. 28” barrels (might be cut)

^20300 Quality 7 10 ga. 32” barrels, (gold dog on trigger guard, stepped side plates.)

20302 Quality 3 12 ga. 30” barrels

20312 Quality 2 12 ga. 26” barrels-cut, originally 32” (Part of Sherman Bell’s “Finding Out for Myself”, Spring 2007 Double Gun Journal)

20317 Quality 7 12 ga. 28” & 30” barrels

20330 Quality 5 3 barrel set (probably done at a later time)

20335 Quality 3 12 ga. Re-barreled in Fulton with Armor Steel (lug is still squared to fit Syracuse receiver)

20379 Quality 2 10 ga. (gun set up for left handed, left barrel fires first), pictures

20446 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels, (Dogs foot on rock butt plate), pictures, 9 lb. 2 oz.

20449 Quality 2 10 ga.

20478 Quality 2 10 ga. ? Barrels

20507 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels

20519 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels

20536 Quality 2 10ga. 32” barrels, 10 lb. 15 oz., heavy weight frame

20541 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels

^20556 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels, (re-stocked)

^20598 Quality 5 10 ga. 30” barrels, (Gold monogram on trigger guard-Brophy’s book)

^20604 Quality 2 10 ga. 26” barrels-cut

20615 Quality 2 12 ga. 28 11/16”, (barrels-cut)

20643 Quality 3 (John Houchins)

^20647 Quality 3 12 ga. 27” barrels-cut

20656 Quality 3 12 ga.

20678 Quality 2 12 ga.? All three patent dates

^20681 Quality 3 10 ga. 28” barrels, (possibly cut or special order, needs forend)

20690 Quality 5 10 ga. 30” barrels, (stepped side plates)

20700 Quality 4 12 ga. 28” barrels, (possibly cut or special order)

20761 Quality 2 12 ga.

20780 Quality 2 12 ga. 28” barrels (cyl/cyl., cut), 7 lb. 4 oz., (scale in picture)

20802 Quality 2 12 ga. 28” barrels (cut?). diamond metal escutcheon in for-end

20840 Quality 10 ga. 30” barrels, r. 758, l. 762

208xx Quality 2 12 ga 26” barrels-cut (pictures)

^20870 Quality 5 12 ga. 30” barrels, (barrels only on ebay)

^20875 Quality 2 12 ga. Re-barreled with 30”

20944 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels

20984 Quality 7 12 ga. Barrels cut to 25”, some gold engravings, side plate has Glahn signature

20994 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels

21093 Quality 10 ga. 32” barrels

21141 Quality F 10 ga. 32” Stub Twist, 10 lb. 8 oz., (grafted comb piece added)

21211 Quality D 10 ga. 32” barrels, hammer gun

22020 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels, trap gun butt plate, 9 lb. 8 oz.

22061 Quality 12 ga. 32” barrels, no engraving (poor condition Gun Broker 9-2010)

22087 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels, diamond escutcheon

^22145 Quality 7 12 ga. 30” barrels, (grade marked, has grip cap inlay)

^22216 Quality 7 10 ga. 30” barrels, (not grade marked, re-barreled to 12 ga. Steel)

^22255 0 Grade 12 ga. 30” barrels, (transition gun-twist steel)

22287 Quality ? 10 ga. 28 ½” barrels (cut), right barrel marked Stub Twist, left barrel marked L.C. Smith Maker Syracuse, N.Y. (re-barreled with hammer gun barrels), pictures, no engraving on side plates.

22338

22378 Quality 2 12 ga.

22452 Quality 2 12 ga.

22519 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels, (all 3 patent dates)

22540 Quality 2 12 ga. 32” barrels

22559 Quality 6 10 ga. 30” barrels

22605 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels, (diamond shaped insert in forend wood)

22631 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels, 7 lb. 4 oz. ,from an original hang tag of 1887, medium weight frame)

22640 Quality 2 12 ga.

22643 Quality 2

22649 Quality 2 12 ga. 26” barrels, (cut, diamond inlay on forend)

22733 Quality 2? 10 ga. 32 ½” barrels, (no engraving on side plates and on trigger guard, only lines with serial #)

22752 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels, Trap butt plate

22757 Quality 4 12 ga. 30” barrels, 7 lb. 10 oz., Trap butt plate

22781 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels

22793 Quality 12 ga. 30” barrels

22796 Quality 2 12 ga.

22803 Quality 2 12 ga. 32” barrels, pictures, repair on stock wrist.

22840 Quality 10 ga 30” Twist Steel, pictures, 10 lb+ , ( no engraving on side plates)

22893 Quality 7 12 ga. 25” barrels

22972 Quality 2 10 ga. breech balls 2 ¾” across

23033

^23055 Quality 3 10 ga. 32” barrels, (John S. Clark on trigger guard)

23061 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels

23152 Quality 2 10 ga. Receiver only-Gun Broker

#23339 Quality 2 12 ga. 28 lpi and drop point checkering

23386 12 ga. 30” barrels

23475 Quality 7 12 ga. ? barrels, scalloped side plates, Unfinished Syracuse Quality 7 finished in Fulton now as an A2 by Hunter Arms, presented to Lyman C. Smith (some discrepancies) in 1891-2 by John Hunter (page 326 “The Legend Lives”) Initials on trigger guard,no ejectors. Tom Archer notes: “gun is in appearances a Syracuse Quality 7 butwas built by Hunter Arms in Fulton.”

25470 Quality F? 12 ga 26” barrels-cut, L.C. Smith Maker, Syracuse on barrels, pictures.

2562X Quality F 10 ga. 30” barrels, picture

259xx Quality F 30” Twist Steel barrels, Trap Gun butt plate.

25627 Quality F 10 ga. 30” barrels

26117 Quality F

26027 Quality F 10 ga. 30” barrels, square lug

26644 Quality F 12 ga. Twist barrels

26872 Quality F 12 ga. Stub twist barrels

^ guns were from Russ Ruppels research

* serial numbers from John? that I didn’t have.

All other serial numbers either from members and/or auction sites.

Shotguns in italics are hammer guns.

27043 Quality 3 (trigger guard only)

*16566 Quality 2 12 ga. cut barrels, (round lug), has Syracuse attributes, but has rounded lug

59584 Quality 2-Grade 2 12 ga.,(Ducks & Quail) (square corners on lug), barrels marked Fulton

30028 Very early Fulton gun, has squared lug no engraving, large convex ribs, fine checkering, no engraving, stub twist barrels

30099 Very Early Fulton, large convex ribs, 10 ga., 30” barrels, engraved like early Fulton Qlty 2 squared lug, pictures

30709 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels, 7 lb. 10 oz., Trap butt plate

31534 Very early Fulton gun with square lug, border engraving,

tapered breech balls and not as large in relationship to Syracuse guns.

32146 Quality ? 30” Twist Steel barrels, Syracuse style checkering and for-end insert, single line engraved around lock plate, like early 0 grade.

36992 Quality

*16905 Shotgun has to be early 1887 gun, if only 281 built from August 1886 starting at 16xxx, serial numbers cannot be sequential.

23339 Shotgun has Fulton attributes, narrow convex ribs, rounded lug, early Fulton Quality 2 engraving.

39241 Shotgun has convex lumps and is Fulton gun (1895)

39252 Shotgun has no ribs ( 9 numbers different) (1895)

1047 2E has convex lumps and is dated as being finished Mar.4, 1896

Anyone having information or serial numbers on these early guns, I would appreciate the information.

Thanks,

J. David Williamson

email jdw110@

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