The L.C. Smith Collectors Association
L.C. Smith - Syracuse Guns
1886-1888
By J. David Williamson
There are no existing records for the shotguns produced by L.C. Smith in Syracuse. The serial number range is thought to be between 15,000-22,500.
What is known is that they were made in 10 gauge and 12 gauge with 30” and 32” barrels. All barrels were Damascus, and the Grades ranged from Quality 2 through Quality 7. Price was Quality 2- $80.00 and Quality 7- $450.00,
In doing this research, I have come to the conclusion that guns with serial numbers in the 16xxx, 18xxx, 19xxx, 20xxx, and up to 22500 are hammerless shotguns and 15xxx, 17xxx, 21xxx, 24,xxx and 25xxx and 26xxx range are hammer guns.
From an old 3” x 6” notepad that Lyman Cornelius Smith handed down upon selling the gun works, the Syracuse L.C. Smith records for the first year of hammerless shotguns show that 281 were produced. Fifteen were returned for credit leaving 266 guns sold the first year. (from Brophy’s L.C. Smith Shotguns, 1977).
The hammerless shotgun went into production in August, 1886. Production totals by month were:
August 14
September 96
October 73
November 82
December 66
Total 281
Returns - 15
266 Total sold August to December, 1886
Production stopped sometime in 1888 when Lyman C. Smith, Maker, sold the company to John Hunter. Also records for 1888 include no production figures. During the period of 1888 to 1890, machinery and equipment was being moved from Syracuse to Fulton (about 30 miles). Once in Fulton, changes were made in the design. Shotguns from Syracuse finished in Fulton have the Fulton address, but serial numbers reflect Syracuse origin. (from Brophy’s book page 193). There are recorded instances where Syracuse shotguns were sent to Fulton for re-barreling, and there are recorded serial numbers that overlap Syracuse shotguns with Fulton shotguns.
This can be seen on a few of the serial numbers listed *, too low for Fulton but have the shape and the convex lumps of the Syracuse shotgun. Very early Fulton guns also have this feature.** It has been noted that some have been seen with the squared lug, and we now have pictures of a few in the 30-31xxx serial number range.
The records for serial numbers 22501-27765 are lost, and are Fulton shotguns.
This would have to be after 22501 because 22631 has its original hang tag from Syracuse. See L.C. Smith “The Legend Lives” page 488.
Patent numbers and dates:
First patent #274,435 March 20, 1883, Breech-loading mechanism, joint and ejector system.
Some guns are have a patent date of March 29,’83
Second patent #345,362 July 13, 1886, lock mechanism for concealed hammer guns (L.C. Smith Hammerless shotgun)
Third patent #350,109 October 5, 1886 Safety catch for gun locks, (Automatic and Independent safety-3 position)
1884-1886 L.C. Smith hammer guns
10020 Quality E 10 ga. 32” barrels stub twist
10046 Quality F 10 ga. 30” barrels stub twist
10203 Quality E 12 ga. Cut barrels
10362 Quality E 12 ga. 19 ¼” (cut), L.C. Smith Maker,
Syracuse, N.Y.
10385 Quality D 10 ga. 30” barrels, 8 lb.10 oz.
Syracuse butt plate
10501 Quality E 12 ga. 30” barrels
109xx Quality E 12 ga.
11233 Quality F 10 ga. 32” barrels, original butt plate
(Gunbroker 11-10 pictures)
11569 Quality E 10 ga. 28” barrels cut
11946 Quality E 10 ga. 30” barrels
12024 Quality D 12 ga. -44-40 Combo gun with 30”
barrels
12094 Quality E 10 ga. 30” barrels
12231 Quality F 10 ga. 30” barrels
12858 Quality F 10 ga?
12952 Quality F 10 ga. 32” barrels, 10 lb. 8 oz.
13229 Quality E 10 ga. 32” barrels, 11 lb. 8 oz., 3”
chambers
13326 Quality F 10 ga. 28 ¼” barrels Stub Twist (cut)
13483 Quality F 12 ga. (dog with foot on rock)
135xx Quality F 12 ga. 30” Stub Twist barrels (pictures)
14438 Quality F 12 ga. 30” barrels Stub Twist
14497 Quality C 10 ga.
14629 Quality F 12 ga. Barrels cut to 18 ½” WF & Co.
Ex stamped on receiver (Wells Fargo and Com.), Gun Broker
1886-1888 Hammer and Hammerless L.C. Smiths
Italics, hammer guns
^15060 Quality E 10 ga. 32” barrels
151xx Quality F 10 ga.
^15624 Quality E 12 ga. 30” barrels
15279 Quality F 12 ga. 30” barrels, Sub Twist
^15750 Quality E 10 ga. 30” barrels
^15754 Quality E 10 ga. 32” barrel, 10 lb. 8 oz., 3” chambers
^15996 Quality E 10 ga. 32” barrels
16036 Quality 3 10 ga. 32” barrels, (no patent dates), (pictures)
16200 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels, 1 1/8 c/c firing pins
^16211 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels
16272 Quality 10 ga. Pat’ date of only Mar.20 ,’83, so gun has to be early production of 1886 when the hammerless first came out (from “L.C. Smith Shotguns )
162xx Quality 2 10 ga. 28” barrels (catalog states 30” or 32” barrels)
16294 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels
16xxx Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels, (possibly heavy frame)
16342 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels, 1886
16344 Quality 2 10 ga. 29 ½” barrels (cut, probably 32” once), pictures, not original butt plate (.013 in one choke)
16362 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels
16397 Quality 2 12 ga. (one patent date-Mar.29,’83)
16425 Quality 2 10 ga. 29.8” barrels (one patent date), 8 lb. 4 oz.
^16447 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels
^16453 Quality 4 12 ga. 30” barrels
^16464 Quality 5 10 ga. 32” barrels
16510 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels
*16566 Quality 2 12 ga. (barrels cut to 26 1/8”), (all three patent dates), Dogs head escutcheon on forend, rounded lug-Fulton shaped side plates
^16576 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels (on Gun Broker being sold 6-5-2011 original s/n number from Russ Ruppel’s research)
16656 Quality 4 12 ga. 30“ barrels (all three patent dates.) , Date: Oct-Dec, 1886, (pictures) pistol grip- capped, wrong re-case & blue
*16750 Quality 4 12 ga. 30” barrels
^16764 Quality 3 10 ga. 32” barrels
16765 Quality 3 12 ga. 29 13/16” barrels (could be 30”)
16769 Quality 3 10 ga. 30” barrels m/f (listed as 90% condition) full capped pistol grip, Trap Gun butt plate, (pictures)
^16775 Quality 3 10 ga. 30” barrels
^16776 Quality 3 10 ga. 32” barrels (only Mar.20,’83 patent date), 2.76 rec.
16804 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels (only Mar.20,’83 patent date)
16864 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels (dog and duck Trap Gun butt plate)
*16905 (Catalog 1888, testimonial from customer dated April 16, 1887 that he received gun one week ago today), 1st Qtr. 1887 made
16936 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels
16992 Quality 3 10 ga. 32” barrels
17106 Quality F 12 ga. 32” barrels (Guns America)
17308 Quality F 10 ga. 32” barrels
^17609 Quality D 12 ga. 30” barrel, scroll 28 lpi checkering
^17675 Quality F 12 ga. 32” barrels, trap gun-line engraving
17739 Quality F 12 ga. 30” barrels
17843 Quality F 10 ga. 30” barrels
17862 Quality F 10 ga. 30” barrel, good condition
^17870 Quality F 10 ga. ? barrels
17883 Quality F 10 ga. 30” barrels
17905 Quality E 10 ga.
17912 Quality E 12 ga. 30” barrels
17914 Quality F 12 ga. 32” barrels
17961 Quality F 10 ga. Stub twist barrels (marked Syracuse N.Y.)
18055 Quality 2 10 ga. 31” barrels-cut
18082 Quality 4 gun is parted out, Grouse with young and weasel, other side woodcock
*18123 Quality 2 12 ga. 26” & 30” barrels
18154 10 ga. from an early 1889 L.C. Smith catalog. Testimonial from customer dated July 31, 1887 saying he patterned gun and results were better than hang tag. Arrived at 10 ga from powder used in tests.
^18168 Quality 2 10 ga. 28” barrels (possibly cut or special order)
18173 Quality 2 10 ga. 30”
18185 Quality 3 10 ga. 32” barrels 10 lb. 2 oz., Trap butt plate
18192 Quality 3 12 ga. 30” barrels
18239 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels, 11 lb. 2 oz.
18255 Quality 4 16 ga. now 26” barrels (barrels made in Fulton to 16 ga., have Hunter Arms, Fulton on ext. rib.)
18291 Quality 2 10 ga. 28” barrels (cut?), original butt plate
18324 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels 10 lb., bores: .801/798 (thought to be 8 ga.)
18325 Quality 2 10 ga. 28” barrels (cut) butt plate original but very worn
18337 Quality 2 10 ga
18358 Quality 3 10 ga. 30” barrels, original butt plate, dog on trigger guard
18397 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels, original butt plate
18414 Quality 4 12 ga. 28” barrels (not s/n to gun, barrels and forend s/n 19335), forend dogs head escutcheon missing (not a Syracuse trait)
^18415 Quality 4 12 ga. 30” barrels,(birds and sculptured balls.)
18465 Quality 3 10 ga. 30” barrels
^18510 Quality 6 10 ga. 32” barrels (gold dog on trigger guard)
18512 Quality 3 10 ga. 32” barrels (2 barrel set, only #2 with gun)
^18557 Quality 2 12 ga. 28” barrels (possibly cut or special order)
18560 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels (Dogs head butt plate) 8 lb. 6 oz.
18587 Quality 5 10 ga. 30” (Brophy’s book) Jacob Glahn engraved & signed, Pictures. (stock has added piece on pistol grip, might have originally been straight stock), 8 lb. 14 oz.
18617 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels
18640 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels
^18660 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels (2.76” wide frame)
^18732 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels (1 inch stock extension dovetailed in)
18756 receiver parts put up for sale on Gun Broker
^18759 Quality 6 12 ga. 30” barrels, 6 gold inlays
18769 Quality 6 12 ga. 30“ barrels, “The Legend Lives” photo
18785 Quality 3 10 ga. 32“ barrels, “The Legend Lives” photo (John Houchins)
18815 Quality 2 10 ga. receiver only
^18843 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels, 10 lb. 5.8 oz., uncheckered?
^18928 Quality 3 12 ga. 32” barrels
18962 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels
18967 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” fluid steel barrels, (re-barreled ?) , pictures
18974 Quality 2 (Serial number from receiver and lock plates Brophy’s book pg. 46)
19008 Quality 2 10 ga.
19038 Quality 3 10 ga. 30” full/full
^19109 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels
19208 Quality 5 12 ga. 32” barrels, (returned to Fulton in 1901 for a set of A1 barrels)
19212
19283 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels, dogs head butt plate (owned by Terry Nix)
19311 Quality 2 10 ga.
19312 Quality 2 10 ga. Has patent date of Mar. 29?,’83
19320 Quality 2 10 ga. Barrels cut and honed out.
19335 Quality 4 12 ga. 28” barrels only (#4 on water table) on gun 18414 Qlty 4
^19377 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels
^19398 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels
19429 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels, Trap Grade butt plate
19478 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels
^19491 Quality 2 10 ga. barrels (re-barreled in steel)
19494 Quality 2 10 ga 30” barrels, L.C. Smith butt plate
19498 Quality 2 10 ga. re-barreled in Italy to steel in 1960, proofed
19500 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels
19513 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels original butt plate
19517 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels, 24 lpi checkering, 9 lb. 10.8 oz.
19593 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels
^19732 Quality 2 12 ga. 26” & 30” barrels, w/ 2 forends
^19746 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels, (barrels s/n 19475)
19767 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels
19773 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels
^19778 Quality 3 12 ga. 30” barrels
19932 Quality 4 10 ga. barrels have Fulton address (Fulton re-barrel), (From Russ’s info “birds marked “Hunter” on barrels, have pictures)
^19955 Quality 4 12 ga. 30” barrels, (small frame)
19966 Quality 2 12 ga.
19974 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels, 1 1/8” c/c firing pin, original butt plate
20112 Quality 2 10 ga 30” barrels fitted with hammer barrels s/n 10827, also has original set
20149 Quality 2 12 ga. 28” cut, (L.C. Smith Trap Gun butt plate orig.), barrels honed to .743
20187 Quality 2 12 ga.
20194 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” full/full, (recoil pad added)
20199 Quality 2 10 ga. 28 ½” (cut), -9 lb. on bathroom scale
20202 Quality 4 10 ga. Engravings of woodcock on right, 2 partridge on left, Setter on point on trigger guard, (pictures)
20279 10 ga.
20283 Quality 2 10 ga. 28” barrels (might be cut)
^20300 Quality 7 10 ga. 32” barrels, (gold dog on trigger guard, stepped side plates.)
20302 Quality 3 12 ga. 30” barrels
20312 Quality 2 12 ga. 26” barrels-cut, originally 32” (Part of Sherman Bell’s “Finding Out for Myself”, Spring 2007 Double Gun Journal)
20317 Quality 7 12 ga. 28” & 30” barrels
20330 Quality 5 3 barrel set (probably done at a later time)
20335 Quality 3 12 ga. Re-barreled in Fulton with Armor Steel (lug is still squared to fit Syracuse receiver)
20379 Quality 2 10 ga. (gun set up for left handed, left barrel fires first), pictures
20446 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels, (Dogs foot on rock butt plate), pictures, 9 lb. 2 oz.
20449 Quality 2 10 ga.
20478 Quality 2 10 ga. ? Barrels
20507 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels
20519 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels
20536 Quality 2 10ga. 32” barrels, 10 lb. 15 oz., heavy weight frame
20541 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels
^20556 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels, (re-stocked)
^20598 Quality 5 10 ga. 30” barrels, (Gold monogram on trigger guard-Brophy’s book)
^20604 Quality 2 10 ga. 26” barrels-cut
20615 Quality 2 12 ga. 28 11/16”, (barrels-cut)
20643 Quality 3 (John Houchins)
^20647 Quality 3 12 ga. 27” barrels-cut
20656 Quality 3 12 ga.
20678 Quality 2 12 ga.? All three patent dates
^20681 Quality 3 10 ga. 28” barrels, (possibly cut or special order, needs forend)
20690 Quality 5 10 ga. 30” barrels, (stepped side plates)
20700 Quality 4 12 ga. 28” barrels, (possibly cut or special order)
20761 Quality 2 12 ga.
20780 Quality 2 12 ga. 28” barrels (cyl/cyl., cut), 7 lb. 4 oz., (scale in picture)
20802 Quality 2 12 ga. 28” barrels (cut?). diamond metal escutcheon in for-end
20840 Quality 10 ga. 30” barrels, r. 758, l. 762
208xx Quality 2 12 ga 26” barrels-cut (pictures)
^20870 Quality 5 12 ga. 30” barrels, (barrels only on ebay)
^20875 Quality 2 12 ga. Re-barreled with 30”
20944 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels
20984 Quality 7 12 ga. Barrels cut to 25”, some gold engravings, side plate has Glahn signature
20994 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels
21093 Quality 10 ga. 32” barrels
21141 Quality F 10 ga. 32” Stub Twist, 10 lb. 8 oz., (grafted comb piece added)
21211 Quality D 10 ga. 32” barrels, hammer gun
22020 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels, trap gun butt plate, 9 lb. 8 oz.
22061 Quality 12 ga. 32” barrels, no engraving (poor condition Gun Broker 9-2010)
22087 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels, diamond escutcheon
^22145 Quality 7 12 ga. 30” barrels, (grade marked, has grip cap inlay)
^22216 Quality 7 10 ga. 30” barrels, (not grade marked, re-barreled to 12 ga. Steel)
^22255 0 Grade 12 ga. 30” barrels, (transition gun-twist steel)
22287 Quality ? 10 ga. 28 ½” barrels (cut), right barrel marked Stub Twist, left barrel marked L.C. Smith Maker Syracuse, N.Y. (re-barreled with hammer gun barrels), pictures, no engraving on side plates.
22338
22378 Quality 2 12 ga.
22452 Quality 2 12 ga.
22519 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels, (all 3 patent dates)
22540 Quality 2 12 ga. 32” barrels
22559 Quality 6 10 ga. 30” barrels
22605 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels, (diamond shaped insert in forend wood)
22631 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels, 7 lb. 4 oz. ,from an original hang tag of 1887, medium weight frame)
22640 Quality 2 12 ga.
22643 Quality 2
22649 Quality 2 12 ga. 26” barrels, (cut, diamond inlay on forend)
22733 Quality 2? 10 ga. 32 ½” barrels, (no engraving on side plates and on trigger guard, only lines with serial #)
22752 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels, Trap butt plate
22757 Quality 4 12 ga. 30” barrels, 7 lb. 10 oz., Trap butt plate
22781 Quality 2 10 ga. 30” barrels
22793 Quality 12 ga. 30” barrels
22796 Quality 2 12 ga.
22803 Quality 2 12 ga. 32” barrels, pictures, repair on stock wrist.
22840 Quality 10 ga 30” Twist Steel, pictures, 10 lb+ , ( no engraving on side plates)
22893 Quality 7 12 ga. 25” barrels
22972 Quality 2 10 ga. breech balls 2 ¾” across
23033
^23055 Quality 3 10 ga. 32” barrels, (John S. Clark on trigger guard)
23061 Quality 2 10 ga. 32” barrels
23152 Quality 2 10 ga. Receiver only-Gun Broker
#23339 Quality 2 12 ga. 28 lpi and drop point checkering
23386 12 ga. 30” barrels
23475 Quality 7 12 ga. ? barrels, scalloped side plates, Unfinished Syracuse Quality 7 finished in Fulton now as an A2 by Hunter Arms, presented to Lyman C. Smith (some discrepancies) in 1891-2 by John Hunter (page 326 “The Legend Lives”) Initials on trigger guard,no ejectors. Tom Archer notes: “gun is in appearances a Syracuse Quality 7 butwas built by Hunter Arms in Fulton.”
25470 Quality F? 12 ga 26” barrels-cut, L.C. Smith Maker, Syracuse on barrels, pictures.
2562X Quality F 10 ga. 30” barrels, picture
259xx Quality F 30” Twist Steel barrels, Trap Gun butt plate.
25627 Quality F 10 ga. 30” barrels
26117 Quality F
26027 Quality F 10 ga. 30” barrels, square lug
26644 Quality F 12 ga. Twist barrels
26872 Quality F 12 ga. Stub twist barrels
^ guns were from Russ Ruppels research
* serial numbers from John? that I didn’t have.
All other serial numbers either from members and/or auction sites.
Shotguns in italics are hammer guns.
27043 Quality 3 (trigger guard only)
*16566 Quality 2 12 ga. cut barrels, (round lug), has Syracuse attributes, but has rounded lug
59584 Quality 2-Grade 2 12 ga.,(Ducks & Quail) (square corners on lug), barrels marked Fulton
30028 Very early Fulton gun, has squared lug no engraving, large convex ribs, fine checkering, no engraving, stub twist barrels
30099 Very Early Fulton, large convex ribs, 10 ga., 30” barrels, engraved like early Fulton Qlty 2 squared lug, pictures
30709 Quality 2 12 ga. 30” barrels, 7 lb. 10 oz., Trap butt plate
31534 Very early Fulton gun with square lug, border engraving,
tapered breech balls and not as large in relationship to Syracuse guns.
32146 Quality ? 30” Twist Steel barrels, Syracuse style checkering and for-end insert, single line engraved around lock plate, like early 0 grade.
36992 Quality
*16905 Shotgun has to be early 1887 gun, if only 281 built from August 1886 starting at 16xxx, serial numbers cannot be sequential.
23339 Shotgun has Fulton attributes, narrow convex ribs, rounded lug, early Fulton Quality 2 engraving.
39241 Shotgun has convex lumps and is Fulton gun (1895)
39252 Shotgun has no ribs ( 9 numbers different) (1895)
1047 2E has convex lumps and is dated as being finished Mar.4, 1896
Anyone having information or serial numbers on these early guns, I would appreciate the information.
Thanks,
J. David Williamson
email jdw110@
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