—and we wouldn’t see Blue get in there! O LC: Okay. We’re ...

Audio File Name: Transcription by: Interviewer: Interviewees: Location: Interview Date: Duration:

shankleville_interviews_20 Rachel E. Winston, 2020 July Lareatha Clay Jeanette Gatlin Collette, Larutha Odom Clay Jasper, TX 2004 September 5 33:11

Speaker Identification:

Lareatha Clay:

LC

Jeanette Gatlin Collette: JGC

Larutha Odom Clay:

LOC

TRANSCRIPT BEGIN

LOC: --and we wouldn't see Blue get in there! Oh Blue jumped in there and jump that broom. I don't know what her problem was--that girl her married! [Laughter]

LC: Okay. We're on tape again. [Laughter] It's still September fifth 2004.

LOC: And the last thing she heard Blue and Freddy were in the car and I didn't remember that.

LC: Okay.

JGC: Freddy was five and Blue--his real name is Aaron Spikes--they was four. Freddy was-- the way the accident happened as far as everybody can say is that it was a truck was coming down the hill and it was kind of raining. Auntie was sitting--waiting--to pull out onto the highway.

LC: Oh she was in the car too?

JGC: She was driving. Actually it was a truck. If it had been a call they would have all got killed. But it was a pickup truck. She was taking my mother to the doctor. They had stopped at a place--might've been a chicken place at the time because my mother as a diabetic and she needed to eat something. She was waiting to pull out on the highway and the last words that my mother asked--she said, What time is it? I think it was something like two or three minutes to one. And this big cattle truck from out of Louisiana was coming down the highway. It was a car--they said it was a little white car that pulled out in front of him and he put on his brakes to avoid that car and his truck jackknifed. When the truck jackknifed it skidded--and whoever this person was they are actually the real cause of the accident. That truck jackknifed and it went across the street and hit them. They were standing still off the highway. That truck hit right where the cab and the bed of the pickup truck was there. That's where my mother was sitting with Aaron and Freddy was sitting in the middle and Auntie was driving. My mother actually was killed instantly. When it hit she fell over--she cushioned her grandchildren--her body did. I think I may be the only one that knows this and I have not told anybody else in my family that it broke her neck. Because I never--Mr. Coleman--the Old Man Coleman--told me.

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LC: That's Coleman Mortuary?

JGC: Yes Coleman Mortuary. Freddy just got flying cuts from the glass because the truck-- when it hit the bed of the truck wrapped around and smashed in the truck in the font. And it fractured Auntie's hip and it broke Aaron's leg at the thigh. I don't know--like I said--my stepbrother Clint Strahan was standing there and he saw it all. Somebody called Linda and of course they had to rush her son to Galveston. So she didn't--couldn't do a lot. And of course they rushed Auntie to Jasper. They took my mother to the hospital of course but she was pronounced already dead. [Inaudible] Coleman. So we came up Friday morning and to start making arrangements--my sisters in Houston and my brother. At the time I was the only one that could take some time off their job. I was working for the phone company--I had time accumulated plus I had very good supervisors. So I stayed the week to make the final arrangements and everything and to see about Auntie in the hospital as best I could.

LC: She was still in the hospital when the funeral happened?

JGC: Oh yes. Yes she never did get the chance--for a long time she had no closure and she thought we was going to blame her for the accident. But Kavelma Biler(??) and Kaflucher Biley(??) those was my backbones. They are the ones that brought be backwards and forth to Shankleville from Jasper every day. My niece--one of my nieces--her daughter was up here with me. They were preteenage children but they were old enough to take care of my son. And of course my older son came with me to take care of my baby while I was taking care of all of the arrangements--to see what Auntie needed and going backwards and forth to the funeral home. Making final arrangements. And of course we did the obituary on the phone [laughs] and everything. Not knowing--Linda's in Galveston with her child so I couldn't be--you know--a support to her. But they did let him come home before the funeral which was that following Wednesday. And now the funeral--I can't tell you too much about it. I was trying to be strong for the rest of the family. I remember the funeral and I remember the other--my stepbrothers and sisters being there and I remember they was trying to get--I was trying to line my mother's children up by age. And I remember one of my stepbrothers was pulling Joan off and I said, Please don't separate us--

LC: Who's Joan?

JGC: Johnetha. That's my sister younger than me. She changed her name to Joan. So I remember doing that but as far as the funeral--I cant tell you a lot about it. But I tried--like I said--to be strong as I could for the rest of them. I don't--I miss my mother and I was sad--but it was something in me that--I knew that my mother was a Christian. I knew that my mother had a lot of health problems. So I knew where she was. Although I know that I wouldn't see her again--I had no doubt that she was in heaven. And I had no resentment even though the paper said the man that hit her--he cried. I couldn't blame him. It was just an accident. And I certainly wasn't going to blame Aunt Opal because it was definitely not her fault. And I was trying to show her that we did not blame her and that we still loved her.

LC: Do I remember your mama?

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JGC: I don't think so. LOC: We've got Lavonia first. Then Ruby Lee. Then it was Hoy. JGC: Henry. Hoy was her daddy--it's Henry. Hoy was his daddy. Henry is junior--his name is Henry. LOC: But you know we called him Hoy Junior when he grew up? JGC: Really? LOC: And Yvette(??) came and told me about Henry and I didn't know that Henry and Hoy were the same one. Okay he is three and you are four. You're the fourth? No--Levenia. JGC: Levinia. LOC: Levinia is the fourth. JGC: I'm number five. And Johnetha is six and then Linda is seven. LOC: You mentioned about how you lined them up and I decided I better do that. JGC: Yeah. Yes. LC: I had thought of a question I was going to ask you. And now with changing the tape and everything I forgot it! LOC: You want me to ask my question? LC: Yes. LOC: Are you sensitive about Steve McBride had two families? JGC: No. That do not bother me at all. LC: Let's talk about who the two families are again because I wasn't aware of that. JGC: He was married to Mary Graham Shankle--which is the daughter of-- LC: What did call her second name? JGC: It was Graham. LOC: We thought it was Rollins. JGC: Oh is it Rollins? LOC: Yes. JGC: I thought it was--I don't know. I'd have to look back on the census. LOC: See I have a tree for them but I don't have any of these people she's talking about. They came from another tree. And you didn't mention Lola's mama. Lola Morgan--Lola Odom. Uncle Gippey(??)'s wife. You said Harriet Williams--that's the tree we talking about now. You

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didn't know Lola Morgan--you don't know Lola Odom? Mack Odom? All that bunch. Their mother was Mame and Fred's sister. JGC: To be honest with you--I'll tell you what it is. My grandmother had thirteen children. LOC: William's woman? JGC: Through Harold Williams my grandfather--grandfather--Fred Douglas' mother had thirteen children. That is where I am stuck because I do not know who her other children were. But Stephen McBride that married Mary--that was his legal wife. Which he was a son-in-law of Jim and Winnie Shankle. They had several children. But my grandmother--which was Harriet Williams--as far as I can going back--she had four children by him. She was that other family. And of course somebody tell me there is another family. LC: A third McBride family? JGC: Yes. There was another--he had two. Who was that--Aunt Luce Smart--which was Aunt Sue's sister. That was the third family. But I don't have my notes with me. LC: Did he claim all of these? JGC: Yes. He did. LOC: That's getting into my family now. Aunt Luce Smart was Grandpa's sister. LC: Grandpa meaning John Wesley Lewis. LOC: Yes John Wesley Lewis. JGC: John Wesley Lewis. LOC: So you're saying she had children by Steve McBdride? JGC: No. Aunt Lu was Steve McBride's daughter. LC: Then how was that John Wesley's sister? LOC: So I guess John Wesley's mama had children by Steve McBride too. JGC: Like I said I got a lot of that at the house. LOC: If you feel uncomfortable talking about it-- JGC: I do not. I do not--that's why I am trying to search back. Because Harriet Williams as far as I could tell--she was in Shankleville. I see a Harriet Williams or Mary Williams in the census that she had--Lane, Fred, Ardella and of course we call her Aunt Jink(??) but her name is actually Marindy(??) because Auntie is named after her. I know that she had those four children-- LOC: What's her name? JGC: Marindy.

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LC: And you call her Aunt Jink? JGC: Aunt Jink--that was her nickname. LOC: And what was her last name? JGC: She was a Mackman(??). She married Sam Mackman. LOC: Okay! That's where--yes. JGC: Now Aunt Della married a Spikes. LOC: Well there's another one. I just can't get it now but I got it somewhere in here. There's another one. Lola--who Uncle Gippey(??) married. JGC: Like I said that was the family. And this lady had some other children because Uncle Little Brother do remember her having a son called Lige Spikes. LOC: I seen him in here somewhere--somebody shot him--just a few minutes ago. I saw that somebody shot Lige. JGC: They said she had--I don't know by her being born back in slavery time and being on the plantation--I don't know where all her children--happened to them--their names. That's why I have been trying to search back to see if I can find because I don't know who she was married to. LC: This is the Williams lady? JGC: This is the Williams lady. LOC: You see Joan came from the wife. LC: From Mary McBride. JGC: She came from--Old Man Charlie McBride was her grandfather. So she came from that side. So she hasn't talked about us. She hasn't acknowledged-- LOC: Do you hold any resentment towards them? JGC: Oh no. LOC: And they don't have any resentment towards you? JGC: Now I don't know about Joan. Because she never talks about--in all of her-- LOC: She never mentioned it. JGC: Never mentioned it. In all of her books or in all of her research--all of her stuff and the history-- LC: She never talks about it? JGC: She never talks about it! It's just her family. LOC: Did you know that Joan's mother was not married to Cecil?

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