As mentioned in the verse of The Foundation of All Good ...



Transcript of the teachings by Geshe Chonyi

Root text from The Medium-Length Exposition of the Stages of the Path of Enlightenment Practised by Persons of Three Capacities by Lama Tsongkhapa, translation Jeffrey Hopkins, Tsong-kha-pa’s Final Exposition of Wisdom © 2008 Jeffrey Hopkins, Snow Lion Publications.

All outline references refer to the outline by Trijang Rinpoche unless otherwise stated. Outlines are in bold.

Lesson No: 42 Date: 3rd March 2011

The verse from the Vajra Cutter Sutra which we recite as part of our prayer:

A star, a visual aberration, a flame of a lamp,

An illusion, a drop of dew, or a bubble,

A dream, a flash of lightning, a cloud –

See conditioned things as such!

The verse from the Vajra Cutter Sutra which we recite as part of our prayer:

In our preliminary prayers, there is this verse from the Vajra Cutter Sutra. We uIt will be good if we can reflect on the meaning of that verse. Usually we spend about five minutes in silence after the prayers. At that time, it will ould be good to if we can meditate on the meaning of this verse.

Think about this: ; now Iif you are asked now to reflect on the meaning of this verse and when you close your eyes, you recite the words, : “‘a star,” ’, what comes to your mind?

Geshela: Three stars? Five stars?

What come to your mind? Are you able to think of anything if you are asked to reflect on the first word ‘a star’? What is the relationship of this word “‘a star”’ with emptiness?

Kyabje Lama Zopa Rinpoche has talked about this on this many times.

When you rwe recite the first word “‘a star,”’, at that time, you we should bring to mind the reality ofn the basis, how the two truths exist on the basis as I have explained in the last lesson. T -what constitutes the basis existent- like what I have mentioned in the previous lesson on how the two truths exist on the basis. When we recite ‘a star,’ this is what you we need to think about, / to understand the two truths, how they constitute reality. .

When If you were to look up into the sky, and if it is a clear sky, what you see only is just the voidness. You ; we do not n’t see stars. This is an analogous to of what the superior beings see when they are while in meditative te equipoise focusing on emptiness. At that time, When they are in meditative equipoise focusing on emptiness, they do not see conventionalities (or objects). y; basically an object.

When the sun sets, you then we will bbegin to see many things, -the stars and other , various heavenly bodies. Likewise, the whole variety of objects and pphenomena appears to the conventional mind that is polluted by the apprehension of true existence.

Basically when we recite ‘a star,’ at that time we have to bring to mind the two truths; how the two truths constitute the very basis /reality.

Then the next one is “‘Aa visual aberration”:, what do you suppose to think or reflect at this time? To the consciousnesses that is are affected or polluted by ignorance, all sorts of appearances arise - : the appearance of true existence and , the appearance of conventional phenomena (conventionalities). but Ddo these phenomena eexist in the way they appear to your mind, especially the mind that has been polluted by ignorance? The answer is no. We understand this through the analogy of ‘a visual aberration. By Uusing the analogy of “‘a visual aberration,” we are supposed to think about on how things and events/ phenomena do not exist in the way they appear to you. us. All phenomena appear to the mind to be as truly existentce but that doesn’t mean they exist in that way.

If things and events / phenomena do ndo notot exist in the way they appear to your mind, does it mean that there are no conventional phenomena /conventionalities? No, it doesn’t mean that things do not exist. Things and events /Pphenomena exist. This is highlighted in the example of ‘a butter lamp’ or “‘a flame of a lamp.”’. Although ‘a butter lamp’ or its ‘a flame of a lamp’ does not exist by their its own nature, nevertheless, ithey t ccomes about through the gathering of various causes and conditions. So Tthis is how they it exists.

So, this This is what you we can reflect on when you we recite this line: “ese: A star, a visual aberration, a flame of a lamp.”

Next is “An ‘an illusion.”:’ So far in tThe first line of the verse , we have establishesd how things and phenomena exist. Although this is how things and events/phenomena exist, and iwhen f you we look at an illusion but fail to realisze it is an illusion and instead , we then believe in it, that illusion and holding on to it to be as real, then that it induces or bring about all sorts of emotions like anger and attachment. and Tthis will make you lead us to suffer and feel be unhappy. This is the an analogy.

Likewise, in real life, although things and events/ all phenomena do not exist from their own side, / ddo not exist truly, b and because you we fail to understand this, you will we apprehend and firmly believe that things and events are truly existent. Then This then this brings about ainduces whole host of emotions like anger and attachment which that causes youus to suffer.

There are many different methods of to overcoming e all these undesired sufferings. One The way you we can do this is by reflecting on how things and events are impermanent by by using the analogy of “‘a of drop of dew.’.” You We can also overcome your undesired sufferings by reflecting on the very nature of those our suffering experiences, on how they are liked “‘a water bubble.”’.

By reflecting on “‘a drop of dew”’ and “‘a bubble”’ as examples, you we then try to reduce or overcome your undesirable sufferings by relating them it to the impermanence and the very nature of your experiences.

But the real antidote to your problems is to realisze selflessness. This at is indicated in the next line. You have to understand how things and events are liked “a dream, a flash of lightning, a cloud.”

The way to counter your sufferings is to relate “‘a dream, a flash of lightning, a cloud”’ to your past, current and future experiences and then meditateing on how all these experiences and objects of in the three times do not exist inherently.

There are many ways of explaining this verse. So this is just one way. Perhaps it might be useful just to reflect on some of these points. It might be useful if we can think about this verse, especially at this time when we are now trying to understand and to learn about the topic on emptiness.

| | |

|Words to reflectThe verse |Meanings to reflect onWhat you can reflect on |

| | |

|A star |How the two truths exist on the basis |

| | |

|AA visual aberration |How things and events/ phenomena appear to the mind as truly existent but they do not exist in the |

| |way they appear to the our mind |

| | |

|A flame of a lamp |Although things and events/phenomena do not exist by their its own nature, nevertheless they it |

| |comes about through the gathering of various causes and conditions. |

| | |

|An illusion |Although things and events/ phenomena do not exist from their own side, / ddo not exist truly, as |

| |becauseyou we fail to understand this, you we apprehend and firmly believe that things and events |

| |are truly existent. Then Tthis then induces a whole host of emotions like anger and attachment |

| |which that then causes you us to suffer. |

| | |

|A drop of dew |How things and events are impermanent |

| | |

|A bubble |By reflecting on tThe very nature of your suffering experiences we can overcome our undesired |

| |sufferings |

| | |

|A dream, a flash of |Relate these three to your By relating ‘A dream, a flash of lightning, a cloud’ to our past, current |

|lightning, a cloud |and future experiences, and then meditateing on how all these experiences and objects in the three |

| |times do not exist inherently. This is the way to counter our sufferings |

There are many ways of explaining this verse. This is just one way. Perhaps it may be useful to reflect on some of these points and to think about this verse, especially at this time when you are trying to understand and to study this topic, emptiness.

***************

When delineating the emptiness of inherent existence, it is helpful to first do so by using the different analogies. Let’s take dreaming as an example. A, at the time of sleep, there is a sleeping consciousness. When one dreams, all sorts of things appear to the mind but, nevertheless, in reality, they do not exist at all.

Similarly, when an illusionist is able to conjures an illusion of an elephant or horse by depending on certain magical spells and certain substances, the illusionist is able to conjure an elephant or a horse but whatever that illusion is conjured up by theis illusionist, it is merely an appearance. It They does not exist whatsoever on the basis of what has been conjured up. the conjuring.

Analogous to Just like how the consciousness is enveloped in by deep sleep, -like being knock-out by the deep sleep- as an analogy, in reality, you can see look at how your state of consciousness is completely enveloped by ignorance. Due to that, whatever appears to your six consciousnesses, they appear to be as existing from their own side. Just as the things you that we see in your dream do not exist in reality, likewise, phenomena things and events do not exist truly, /do not exist inherently although that is how they appear to your consciousnesses - the six kinds of consciousnesses.

Things and events/ Pphenomena appear to be as truly existent to your consciousnesses, especially to the mind of ignorance. That is the very thing that has is to be negated or / refuted. Whatever appears to the mind as truly existent is the object of negation and that is the thing that we have to refute or eradicate. AAlthough things and events/ all phenomena exist as merely posited or /imputed by mind. N, no phenomena exist by their its own nature. There is not even a single atom of inherently existencet. So this phenomenon, existing by its own nature, is the object of negation. This is the subtle object of negation.

We hadve looked at delineated ing how the “I” and “mine” are is not existing inherently existent. Next comes we look atthe illusory-like appearance. This is kind of revision.

The text mentions two meanings of In the text, it talks about the meaning of illusory-like appearance:. There are two meanings:

• How things exist conventionally and how they are empty of existing truly.

1. How, while things are empty, nevertheless, they appear. T

• This second mode of explanation of illusory-like appearance applihis applies es to the conventional phenomena.

When you hear the statement: “All phenomena are empty of inherent existence,t.” tThis does not mean that things and events are non-existent. The emptiness referred to here that we are talking about here is not referring to just the mere non-existencet.

While saying that objects or phenomena are empty of inherently existencet, at the same time, one must be able to posit/ certify an the accumulator of action. One must be able to explain the actions, such as, looking at something or listening to something.

Phenomena right Ffrom the time phenomena they come into existencet, they come into existencet right there hhaving the nature of emptiness. It is not as if athe phenomenona comes into existencet without theat nature of emptiness and then, somewhere along the way, it halfway along, suddenly acquires this qualityies of emptiness. It is not like that. Right from the start, time when phenomena come into existencet , they come into existent as being in the nature of emptiness.

Furthermore, it is not as if that there are only certain objects or phenomena that possess this nature, i.e., some only certain phenomena or oobjects are empty of inherently existencet while others there are some other objects that are not. No, Iit is not like that either. In fact, emptiness pervades all phenomena. All phenomena have theat nature of emptiness. All phenomena also have the same nature of emptiness and since there are no subtleties in the emptiness of phenomena, all of them share the same nature. So, by meditating on the emptiness of one phenomenon, that meditation can become the antidote to all the apprehensions of true existence.

When delineating emptiness, the analogy of the reflection in the mirror is used. Why? Because it is easier to realisze that how things and events are not truly existente in relation to the reflection in the mirror. It is easier to realize realise that there is a disparity between the appearance and reality in using this e analogy. of the reflection in a mirror. It is much easier to realisze that it does not exist in the a way that it appears. The way it appears does not accord with or is not / in harmony with the way it exists. It is fairly easy to understand this fact:. On page 78 of the text:

Initially, one is caused to enter into realizing that these examples, which are renowned as false in the world, are without inherent existence, whereupon one must generate realization that other phenomena not renowned as false in the world are without inherent existence (Page 78 of the root text). .

We are not saying that once you have realiszed the emptiness of one object, you will realisze the emptiness of all other objects. What we are saying is that once you have realiszed the emptiness of one object, and, if you then turn your attention to other objects, you will be able to realisze the emptiness of those at objects. In the text, it says that you first realisze the thing that is renowned as false in the world to be empty, first then you realisze the emptiness of those things that are not renowned as false in the world. There at is a sequence, ; a temporal order.

Question: Student 1: The temporal order of realization will be first realizing the emptiness of phenomena which are renowned as false in the world, for example, reflection in the mirror. The question is Rreflecting on the reflection of the mirror to be empty of inherent existent is done at the mental level i.e. you don’t stare at yourself in the mirror to realisze the emptiness?.

Answer: Which consciousness is the one that meditates on emptiness? It is the mental consciousness.

Student: I am trying to clarify that this meditation is done on the basis of visualising mentally the reflection of oneself in the mirror and not directly reflecting on the reflection in the mirror.

Answer: The thing that you are trying to establish the emptiness of is, here iin this case, is the reflection. It is tThe mental consciousness is the one that engages in the analysis and the enquiry. The object of enquiry here is the reflection. What you are trying to find out is whether it is empty or not. andIt is the mental the consciousness thing that makes does the enquiry. is the mental consciousness.

It is emphasisezde in the teachings that it is extremely important to identify /recognize correctly the object of negation - the thing that one is trying to negate/ refute.. When you If we ddo not recognisze the object of negation correctly, you we may end up, for example, let’s say, negating the person itself. With If we end up having the person or “I” as the object of enquiry, then at the end of the analysis, you can we can even come to the conclusion that the person or self does not exist.

But Ssuch a conclusion is a very heavy obstacle to realiszing emptiness because you we are refuting the person.

When you If one does not differentiate clearly well between investigating whether something is inherently existent or not from whether something is merely existent or non-existent, and not differentiating this from just existent and non-existent, then you will run into this such a problem. as explained. When If you don’t identify the object of negation correctly -what you are targeting at- then, your entire whole analysis will becomes a great obstacle to realiszing emptiness. The obstacle comes because of your:

• - not differentiating between inherent existencet and mere existencet and

• - not differentiating between inherent non-non-existencet and non-existencet.

Therefore it is said to be of vital importancet to understand and to identify correctly the object of negation. Therefore Iit becomes very important to know the meaning of true existencet, /inherent existencet.

So, Oon the basis of recogniszing the object of negation correctly, one is then able to negate inherent existencet well. It is notin sufficient just to be able to do that because, after doing that, while at the same time as you have the ascertainment ascertained that things and events do not exist inherently whatsoever, you should be able to generate, induce or elucidate a very strong understanding that things and events do exist, i.e., you are able to posit that while they do not exist inherently, things and events do exist.

You are able to posit the person as being the accumulator of action and the person is the experiencer of the result of the action. Your One’s realiszation of emptiness must induce the profound understanding of dependent- arising, that b. Based on dependent- arising, things and events are dependently arisening.

As mentioned on page 80 of the root text:

However, the difficult point is that you must, from the depths, be As mentioned on page 81 of the text, what we are supposed to do is that we must be able to induce ascertainment with respect to the negation, without residue of an inherent nature – establishment by way of [the object’s] own nature – and , and be able to posit those very persons and so forth, lacking inherent existence, as the accumulators of actions, experiencers of effects, and so forth. However, as it says, Aa composite of these two hardly occurs; hence the Middle Way view is very difficult to find.

However, the difficult point is that you must, from the depths, be able to induce ascertainment with respect to the negation, without residue, of an inherent nature-establishment by way of [the object's] own nature—and be able to posit those very persons and so forth, lacking inherent existence, as the accumulators of actions, experiencers of effects, and so forth. A composite of these two hardly occurs; hence, the Middle Way view is very difficult to find.

When does one realisze the meaning of illusory-like appearance or when ? Another way of saying is when does one realisze subtle conventionality? What is subtle conventionality? You We realisze this when you we see how everything is empty of inherently existencet yet, at the same time, you we are are able to posit persons and so forth existing. T; they accumulate actions and they experience the results of those actions. When these two comes together, then that is the time when you one hashave realiszed the meaning of illusory-like appearance.

In order to realisze the illusory-like appearance, you we first must first realisze the emptiness of inherently existencet. That is the very basis. On the basis of having realisingzed that things and events are empty of inherently existencet, subsequently, one realiszes the illusory-like appearance.

In order to realisze illusory-like appearance, there must be a the composite of two valid cogniszers: must come about:

• -first, there is a valid cogniszer or valid / mind which realiszes the emptiness of inherent existence and

-there is a conventional mind realiszing subtle conventionality.

•

These two valid cogniszers must come together.

Question: Student 2: The thing that determines whether one gets the meaning of illusory-like appearance is whether one identifies y correctly the object of negation?.

Answer: In order to realisze illusory-like appearance, you we first must first realisze emptiness. In order to realisze emptiness, you MUSTmust identify correctly identify the target, -the object of negation.

It is said in the teachings that, if one delineates well the meaning of emptiness in relation to any chosen object, i.e., once you have realiszed emptiness, whatever object appears to in your mind, you are able to realisze how it is like an illusion. I - it does not exist in the way it appears. That experience comes naturally. ; Yyou don’t have to come out with another reason.

When you one realiszes emptiness in the meditative equipoise and you then then one arises from that meditative equipoise, i.e., in the post- meditative equipoise, whatever appears, it appears as illusory-like. That is why one refers to we say the space-like meditative equipoise and the illusory-like post- meditative equipoise. It is through the union of these two practices that one moves along from the paths.

Question:

Student 3: Just to reconfirm: W that we need two steps to realisze emptiness.

1. Realiszing the emptiness of the inherent existencet of an object and

2. Realiszing the object exists and still functions?

Ven Gyurme: Realizing emptiness or realization of the view, analysis of the view- when is it complete?

Answer: The manner of realiszing emptiness is just what appears we have been seeing in the text. There is no higher mode of realiszation. The realiszation of emptiness basically means realiszing the emptiness of inherent existence. Realiszing the emptiness of inherent existence is just related to realiszing emptiness. There is ; nothing more.

What is the manner of realiszing emptiness? Basically Wwhat is emptiness? It is a non-affirming/ non-implicative negation which is the negation of true existence. This is just talking about the way emptiness is realised. realizing emptiness.

But with regard to the here we are talking about the manner of realiszing subtle conventionality, this ; which means that, although how things and events /all phenomena are empty of existing inherently, yet at the same time, action, agent and object areis feasible and workable. This is related to the analysis of the view. When one If one realiszes the subtle conventionality, then it is said then that one’s analysis of the Middle Way view is complete.

Here, Lama Tsongkhapa is says very ing clearly that the Middle Way view is very difficult to find. The Middle Way view here refers to the composite of those two things. What constitutes the completion of the analysis of the view and so forth is something to that can bebe discussed further. What I am saying here is that, first, you realisze emptiness. T then, you realizse the subtle conventionality. The composite of these two is difficult to find.

In order to find the Middle Way view, it is innot sufficient just to just to realisze emptiness. You have to realisze how things and events, actions and effects, and so forth are feasible within the understanding that phenomenathings and events do not exist inherently.

I guess, first, you have to delineate the selflessnesses of the persons and phenomena. T then, you turn your attention to realising ze subtle conventionality.

Having said that, so what do you think? Is realiszing subtle conventionality a mode or a manner of realiszing emptiness? Does it constitute the realiszation of emptiness?

Question: Student 3: How does the realiszation of subtle conventionality fit into the paths and grounds?

Ven Gyurme: Can we realize this before entering the path?

Answer: As I have mentioned before, in the case of the Mahayana pPath, those of the Mahayana lineage, especially those of the sharp- facultied ones, will y, have they realisedze emptiness even before entering the path. Once they realisze emptiness, then they then realisze subtle conventionality. This is even before entering the path. They enter the path wWith theseis realiszations. then they enter the path.

They then move up in the paths by alternating between through the alternation of meditative equipoise and arising from that equipoise. In particular, when it comes to the direct perception of emptiness, that e direct perception of emptiness of emptiness is actually an uninterrupted path. They person arises from thee uninterrupted path and enters into the post- meditative equipoise. This is how they move from one ground to the next others.

Alternating between these two -– the meditative equipoise and post- meditative equipoise -– therefore, one refers to the we say the space-like meditative equipoise and the illusory-like post- meditative sessions.

During In the meditative equipoise, they accumulate the collection of wisdom. In the post- meditative equipoise session, they accumulate the collection of merit. Through Aalternating between these two, they progress along on the paths towards enlightenment.

A very concise but wonderful summary of what these whole things that we havehave been discuscovered can be found in pages 84 – 85 of the text. sing over the months is starting from the middle of page 84 to the end of page 85 of the text. Lama Tsongkhapa himself says:

To describe how to seek that ascertainment in a way easy to understand:

• As explained earlier, cause the generality of the object of negation by reasoning to appear well, and contemplating well inherent existence as it is superimposed by the ignorance in your own continuum, identify it.

• Then, with particular emphasis contemplate the fact that if such inherent establishment exists, it does not pass beyond oneness and difference, and with particular emphasis contemplate the mode of the presence of damage to assertions [of the self and aggregates] as either one or different, inducing ascertainment seeing the damage.

• Finally, make firm the ascertainment thinking, "A person does not in the least have inherent establishment."

First, you induce the ascertainment has to be induced. Once that is done, the ascertainment is induced, then you then make firm thethat ascertainment firm by thinking: “A person does not in the least have inherent establishment.” So, Lama Tsongkhapa continuessays:

Frequently train this way in the factor of emptiness. Then:

• Let the undeniable appearances of the conventions of persons dawn as objects of your awareness.

• Take to mind the dependently cy arisen factors of positing persons as the accumulators of actions and the experiencers of effects.

• -Gain ascertainment with respect to how dependent-arisings are feasible within the absence of inherent existence.

Basically Aafter training well in the factor of emptiness, then you then turn your attention to the factor or class of appearances. When you have difficulty putting these two together or when you find these two are contradictory, in your mind you think that how dependent arising and inherent existence do go together. When dependent arising and the absence of inherent existence seem are contradictory, then Lama Tsongkhapa advisessays: using “Use the examples of the mirror images and so forth to understand how dependent arising and the emptiness of inherent existence are not contradictory.

When those two [dependent-arising and the absence of inherent existence] seem to be contradictory, within taking as examples [mirror] images and so forth, contemplate how they are non-contradictory as follows:

The image of a face is an aggregate in one common locus of (l) undeniably being produced in dependence on a face and a mirror even though it is empty of the eyes, ears, and so forth it appears to have and (2) disintegrating when either of those two conditions [face or mirror] is absent. Similarly, even though a person does not have inherent establishment—not even a particle—it is not contradictory for the person to be the accumulator of actions, the experiencer of effects, and to be born in dependence on former contaminated actions, afflictive emotions, and so forth.

Contemplating this, you should train [in the non-contradiction of appearance and emptiness]. Such should be understood in all similar situations. .

At the end of the day, Wwhether you we know a lot of words or you don’t know much, nevertheless you can spend days or months, even sometimes we can just spend a day or months, in fact your whole life thinking about these three points here::

1. First, realisze emptiness.

2. Then, try to realize how things (while empty) can still can exist.

3. Sometime Wwhen you have difficulty seeing them as complementary, i.e., you seeing them as contradictory, then use the example of the mirror image.

This is like the summary guideline for your life-long practice. which we can use as practice; as a guideline for the whole life.

After this class, we will just continue with the text. We had did started the chapter on with the selflessness of phenomena. Then after Tthat will be followed by it is the two truths.

Student 4: From the summary on page 84 to 85, it is clear that the order of realization should be selflessness of persons and then the selflessness of phenomena?

Ven Gyurme : We agree with you. But what is the reflection of the face in the mirror?**************

After the person has realiseszed the emptiness directly, does the person still have ignorance in the mind?

You said that the person who has realiszed the emptiness directly still have ignorance. Isn’t ignorance the lack of understanding of emptiness? Yes?, Tthen, how come there is still have ignorance?

During the post- meditative period, hhe realiseszes illusory-like appearance, rright? Whatever appears appears as real but he realiseszes that it doesn’t exist in that way. If that is the case, then there is no ignorance. How can you say there is to have ignorance? He realiszes that (the appearance) is not true, right? That means he doesn’t have ignorance.

The illusionist conjures up an illusory elephant. In that illusionist’s mind, does that person have a mind apprehending the elephant? Does the illusionist ever apprehend a real elephant or not? I am the a magician who , I created the trick. I know it is my trick. But Iis it ever possible then for me to think that the elephant that I created is the real elephant. Is it possible?

If you agree with this analogy then, in the mind of someone who realiszes emptiness, there is no way for the apprehension of true existence to arise. He has realiszed (emptiness) it already. , then Hhow then is it possible (for the apprehension of true existence) to arise? He will sees everything as illusory-like in post- meditative equipoise.

If you sayid that it is possible for a person who has realisedzes emptiness directly to generate ignorance during the post- meditative equipoise, then likewise you must apply that to the analogy. That will means it is possible for me, (as the an illusionist) to believe the (illusory) elephant which I have created is a real elephant. If it exists in the meaning, it must exist in the analogy.

Generally speaking, when you we see yourselfves in the mirror, you we know that is not youus. But sometimes, for whatever reason, you (suddenly see yourself in the mirror), go in there and you are get shocked and think, “That is me.”. You do generate such thought, don’t you?. Even if it is for a short time, but still the thought arises. Of course you do realize immediately.

You have already realiszed that your the reflection of you in the mirror is not you. You have realisedzed this it for a long time, since you were young but sometimes, you still do get a shock. So, this is a very good example and the perfect analogy.

It is possible for an illusionist to believe that his own creation is a real elephant. If that is the case at the time of the analogy, then when appliedy to the meaning, as in the case of someone who has realisedzes emptiness directly, it is possible to posit an occasion or or instances when that person still has ignorance, i.e., he still apprehend things as truly existent.

Of course, the stronger the his or her realiszation becomes, especially when the the person’s mindfulness is very strong, then it is difficult for ignorance to manifest.

When If you think along theseis lines, then you will be able to understand and explain to someone how, asking you that after realiszing emptiness, , how it is still possible to have ignorance.

If you think about this, then it is quite clear. If you don’t think about it and if someone body suddenly asks you, “If t: The person has already realiseszed emptiness directly, -which is the complete opposite of ignorance, the i.e. ignorance of is not knowing the reality of the phenomena, - how come there is still ignorance?”. it It sounds funny, doesn’t isn’t it?

From this analogy, one we can infer that, even for someone who has realiszed emptiness directly, it is possible that there will be occasions when that person to talk of time when the person still has manifests ignorance manifesting. One We can only understand this through the analogy because one we ourselves doesn’t n’t have any direct experience ofn the perception of emptiness. We can only understand this through an analogy. So the analogy is the good!.

Translated by Ven. Tenzin Gyurme

Transcribed by Phuah Soon Ek and Vivien Ng

Edited by Cecilia Tsong

Checked by Shirley Soh

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