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Alma Rangel

After read about Plato's educational system several questions arise. As the book says, in the Republic, Plato believed that the interests of the state are best preserved if children are raised and educated by the society as a whole, rather than by their biological parents. So he proposed a simple scheme for the breeding, nurturing, and training of children in the guardian class. I wonder if this theory had been tested before, if yes, what have been the results and the benefits to the society.

A democratic process to meet the need of teaching all children and achieve equality:

From this point on, Plato begins to pay more attention to the educational processes extent, i.e., it does not matter so much who education will point out as capable of ruling, but how many people will be prepared to exercise patriotism during their lives. Therefore, Plato argues for the public character of education and that it has to be given in buildings especially built for that purpose. In these schools, boys and girls should receive the same teaching.

Ensure Quality of education:

As education takes a prominent position in the citizen’s formation, its supervision becomes crucial. An education minister, who must be well qualified and should not be less than fifty years old.

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Antonio Rivera

As a result of learning this chapter I would like to learn if high ranking education organizations (U.S. Department of Education, State Department of Education) continue to use the theories of Plato (idealism) and Aristotle (metaphysics) directly into our school systems.

I don’t believe that the policy makers will study Plato or Aristotle before they make educational policies. I would think that the influences of philosophers such as Plato or Aristotle are indirect and there are still their legacies in the current-day school systems.

Two citations

Barrow, R. (1976). Plato and education. London: Routledge & K. Paul.

Curren, R. R. (2000). Aristotle on the necessity of public education. Lanham, MD: Rowman &

Littlefield Publishers.

Sandra Sandoval

C.2 I would like to kkow more about the "polis" and how it worked. Also, I was fascinated with the "Spartan" model and how its later influences in history.

The overwhelming characteristic of the city-state was its small size; this allowed for a certain amount of experimentation in its political structure. The age of the city-state in Greece is an age of dynamic and continual experimentation with political structures; this period of experimentation gave the European world most of its available political structures. Its small size also allowed for democracy, since individual city-states were small enough that the free male citizens constituted a body small enough to make policy decisions relatively efficiently. The overwhelming importance of the polis in the evolution of European political structures is betrayed by the word "political" itself: derived from the word polis , "political" etymologically means "of or relating to the polis ."

By the sixth century, the experiments began to settle around two alternatives. The tyrranies never died out, but oligarchy became the settled norm of the Greek city-states. Several of these oligarchies, however, were replaced by a second alternative that originated sometime in the sixth century: democracy.

 One further innovation should be remarked upon: naturalization

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C.3 Although much was said about the Greek philosophers, I wanted to know more about the sophists, especially Protagoras.

Protagoras of Abdera was one of several fifth century Greek thinkers (including also Gorgias, Hippias, and Prodicus) collectively known as the Older Sophists, a group of traveling teachers or intellectuals who were experts in rhetoric (the science of oratory) and related subjects. Protagoras is known primarily for three claims (1) that man is the measure of all things (which is often interpreted as a sort of radical relativism) (2) that he could make the "worse (or weaker) argument appear the better (or stronger)" and (3) that one could not tell if the gods existed or not. While some ancient sources claim that these positions led to his having been tried for impiety in Athens and his books burned, these stories may well have been later legends. Protagoras' notion that judgments and knowledge are in some way relative to the person judging or knowing has been very influential, and is still widely discussed in contemporary philosophy.

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C.4 I would like to learn more about Cicero's ideal of "humanitas".

The word humanitas was created by Cicero to describe a good human. In Cicero's opinion it was a necessity for the education in the Classical studies. Cicero realized the loss of a human being in the late Republican Roman Empire.

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Bryan Bryant

I think that many of the positive things he transmitted with his poems would be valuable for many of our children and adults today. The second thing I am interested in is the slavery comparison between then and when slavery occurred in our country. It is difficult for me to imagine slaves in our country being able to tutor wealthy children? I know that education was not encouraged and many times banned and forbidden by slave owners, but how many of the slaves in Greek society were educated?

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Slavery played a major role in ancient Greek civilization. Slaves could be found everywhere. They worked not only as domestic servants, but as factory workers, shopkeepers, mineworkers, farm workers and as ship's crew members.

There may have been as many, if not more, slaves than free people in ancient Greece. It is difficult for historians to determine exactly how many slaves there were during these times, because many did not appear any different from the poorer Greek citizens.

There were many different ways in which a person could have become a slave in ancient Greece. They might have been born into slavery as the child of a slave. They might have been taken prisoner if their city was attacked in one of the many battles which took place during these times. They might have been exposed as an infant, meaning the parents abandoned their newborn baby upon a hillside or at the gates of the city to die or be claimed by a passerby.

This method was not uncommon in ancient Greece. Another possible way in which one might have become a slave was if a family needed money, they might sell one of the children into slavery. Generally it was a daughter because the male children were much needed to help out with the chores or the farm. Kidnapping was another fairly common way in which one could have been sold into slavery.

Slaves were treated differently in ancient Greece depending upon what their purpose was. If one was a household servant, they had a fairly good situation, at least as good as slavery could be. They were often treated almost as part of the family. They were even allowed to take part in the family rituals, like the sacrifice.

Slaves were always supervised by the woman of the house who was responsible for making sure that all the slaves were kept busy and didn't get out of line. This could be quite a task as most wealthy Greek households had as many as 10-20 slaves.

Slave labor was an essential element of the ancient world. While male slaves were assigned to agricultural and industrial work, female slaves were assigned a variety of domestic duties which included shopping, fetching water, cooking, serving food, cleaning, child-care, and wool-working. In wealthy households some of the female servants had more specialized roles to fulfil, such as housekeeper, cook or nurse.

Often those forced into these conditions were those condemned to death for committing crimes because it was understood that they wouldn't live very long under these circumstances. It is surprising to note that the police force in ancient Athens was made up mainly of slaves. Many of the clerks at the treasury office were slaves

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Elsa Barron

I would like to know who decided WHAT should be taught for students to become "successful" (were there committees?, individuals?) Also, how did one become an effective teacher and what curriculum was followed to satisfy the criteria?

In ancient Greece or Rome, I guess most education happened at home and there might be some conventional standards as to what should be taught. However, I doubt there was established formal curriculum.

For example in Rome, the purpose of education is to cultivate eloquent citizens who are good at rhetoric. Therefore, the curriculum was likely to serve that purpose and emphasize on grammar, reading and writing.

In Greece, for example, Aristotle proposed a liberal arts curriculum, which requires that each citizen be trained as a whole person who is knowledgeable about a variable of core subjects.

In today’s America, the decision is likely to be made at state level. However, in some other countries, national departments of education decide what should be taught, for example, Japan. A lot of educators think that NCLB is an attempt to transfer the power in education from the state level to national level.

Perkins, Lawrence Leslie

I would like to know why when Greek was the primary language and only the Latin vernacular was required that the Romans continued with the Roman alphabet. Secondly what numerical system did the Romans use when teaching Math, Science, and Astronomy? (aII + bII = cII is only the beginning). This looks a rather cumbersome operation to me.

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The Roman numeral system, in which letters represent numbers, was dominant in Europe for nearly 2,000 years. Roman numerals are hard to manipulate, however, and mathematical calculations generally were done on an abacus (see Abacus). Over time the easier-to-use Arabic numbers replaced Roman numerals (see Numeration Systems and Numbers).

Yes, the system is very cumbersome, so it was replaced. But it may not be a bad starting point.

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Meixia Ding

After reading these, I want to know more about the development of the western and eastern philosophers’ theories and how these ideas interacted with each other later on.

Citation

Hamburger, M. (1959). Aristotle and Confucius: A comparison. Journal of the History of Ideas,

20(2), 236-249.

I believe that the western and eastern philosophers did not have a chance to communicate with each other very much historically. The eastern and western philosophies evolved largely by themselves. However, the eastern and western philosophers may share some similarities. And certainly western and eastern people can borrow each other’s philosophies and learn from each other more efficiently now.

Michael Muzheve

The book talks about Aristotle and the liberal arts. I would like to know if he has had an impact on how the curriculum is formulated in the present day. Is the influence of the Roman Empire still existent and which parts of the world were and are still living under that influence?

Aristotle definitely had an impact on how the curriculum is formulated in the present day. The Influence of the Roman Empire is sill existent.

Citation

Atwill, J. (1998). Rhetoric reclaimed: Aristotle and the liberal arts tradition. Ithaca, NY:

Cornell University Press.

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Lizzy Newsome

I would like to know what role females had in the delivery of education and how Greek education helped shape education today.

(I would also like to know how the division between Spartans and Athenians came to be and how that division set the stage for education in Rome and America later. See answers for Heather and Nick)

Bernice Sanchez

As a result of reading these chapters, I would like to learn more about the specific role of women and if they contributed to the shaping of early educational practices.

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The only formal education that an ordinary woman could pursue was music and dancing. If a woman was to be a hetaera there were special schools that taught other subjects including rhetoric. But Greek women were fortunate that there were so many educated people because they could educate themselves if they wished. Many women did that. A few women disguised themselves as men and attended the schools for men.

women are invariably involved with the early education of all children. If they are well educated then they can provide more adequate and accurate education in the early years. Recent research has shown that this early education is vital for establishing goals and skills that are important for later life. If women are properly educated then they serve their role as women better and they can vote responsibly.

Heather Ramirez

I would like to learn more about how educational systems like that of Athens and Sparta end up comparing in the long run. What other cities/governments have utilized a system like that in Sparta and what was the end result? Are there positive characteristics that arise from facist situations such as those?

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First, it is important to note that collective education was considered so important that the agoge was not only a compulsory prerequisite for citizenship, but all adult males bore an equal responsibility for rearing good citizens.

Second, all sources agree that the principal goal of public education was to raise good future citizens. The emphasis of the education was thus on athletic activities and military skills

Less obvious and often overlooked by modern observers is the fact that the goal of producing good future citizens was not fulfilled by producing good soldiers alone. Ideal future citizens were democratic, self-sufficient and independent.

Furthermore, although the emphasis of Spartan education may have been on physical education, this training could not have been exclusive. The fact that no contemporary source mentions that the boys learned to read and write has been taken mistakenly to mean they did not.

Furthermore, the percentage of Spartans who were literate clearly exceeded that of any other city-state because—in contrast to the other cities—Spartan women were literate.

Another area in which Spartans excelled was in brevity and clarity of expression

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In Sparta as well as Germany the state was all-powerful; life rotated around the state. Both were governments intent on military success. With this in mind, their education and training of youth were similar in many ways.

In Germany around the time of World War II, Hitler indoctrinated the people, especially the youth, with the idea that the nation was supreme. In Sparta too, the nation was supreme over individuals.

Both nations upheld statism- the idea that the state determined ethics and human value

In contrast to Sparta, whose people had upheld statism for centuries, the indoctrination of Germans was a big part of the Nazi agenda

Neither civilization’s education system was elaborate. Both taught basic reading and writing skills, but believed that education was unimportant and detrimental to the army

Courtney West

As I read the three chapters and began preparing for the presentation, several questions arose. Perhaps the biggest question dealt with the Code of Lycurgus, which led the Spartans to soldering. I wondered – who developed or devised the code, and how and why it seemed to immediately go into effect? Furthermore, I would like to read the Code itself. I have attempted to research more about this topic and have not located a great deal of information.

However, I will continue searching and hopefully will be able to provide you with

more detail about the Code of Lycurgus.



Historians agree that the Spartan code of law came from a man named Lycurgus

Economics: One of the most revolutionary things Lycurgus did was redistribute all the land in Sparta into 30,000 equal shares. He also did away with the hereditary ownership of land. He then forbade the Spartans to use anything but iron as a currency and to abandon industry and trade. The idea was to leave the citizens free for government and war

Political: The government was nominally headed by two kings. The real power was in the two houses, the Assembly and Senate

Military: The soldiers were kept apart from the rest of the people, including their families.

Having thus given Sparta its signature existence, Lycurgus made the government promise to keep things the same until he returned. He died in solitude. The government kept its promise.

Hayley Kazen

I can see how Greek educational ideas have influenced American education, but what about other educational systems throughout the world? Since Athens, Rome and the US are conquering nations, it would make sense that their educational systems are similar, but what about conquered nations? Do their educational goals and methods of transmitting education differ?

It depends under what situation a nation conquered.

Citation

Wells, P. S. (1999). The barbarians speak: How the conquered peoples shaped Roman Europe. Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press.

Nickolas Bobeck

I would like to know more about the two Greek City States of Sparta and Athens and just how they became so different in their beliefs. Both poleis were Greek in origin but they came to

believe so differently. Although the roots were the same in that as a whole together the polis was stronger than its parts they differed greatly in their educational style. The Athenian people thought that the ideal Greek was well rounded in all aspects of life while the Spartans believed the most important aspect of life was being prepared to protect what was theirs. Were there leaders who had followers that split from the original group and started each polis or did their beliefs just evolve over time?

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There is no evidence as I know that leaders split from the original group. It is more likely that the two cities just developed different ways of lives and experienced different ideologies and values. And their separate views evolved over time. Because of the desire of the Athenians to control other Greek cities and the resistance to being controlled by the Spartans caused the war.

Rebecca Black

I would be interested in knowing how long it took to make the transition from Greek to Roman supremacy. Through Alexander the Great, Greece amassed an incredibly large portion of the civilized world, and it would be interesting to learn about the process whereby the Romans conquered Greece and changed the focus of western society forever.

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The conflicts among cities due to ideological and cultural differences and the wars between Spartan and Athenians weakened Greece.

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