WOMAN INTERVIEWER: And where were you born



WOMAN INTERVIEWER: And where were you born?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: I was born on December 9th, 1954 --

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Wow.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: -- at Southern Baptist Hospital on Napoleon Avenue in New Orleans.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: And where were you raised?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Raised right here in New Orleans.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: In the city itself?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: We lived on Calhoun Street for one year after I was born, then we moved to River Ridge, or what became River Ridge.

WOMAN INTERVIER: And where have you lived as an adult?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, I attended LSU university in Baton Rouge. And since then, I've been living in New Orleans, Uptown, in the Bywater, in the Marigny. And I currently live in River Ridge.

WOMAN INTERVIER: Right back to the beginning, basically.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Yeah.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: What is your earliest food memory?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, Grape-Nuts® cereal. And it wasn't a pleasant one either.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: It's always one of my favorites.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Could be about two years, and we were visiting my aunt in Miami. And I remember having Grape-Nuts® for breakfast and then riding in the car and then having an unpleasant experience.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh. So it wasn't just the crunch of it?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: No.

WOMAN INTERVIER: No, okay. What did your family eat on a daily basis?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, my father was raised here in New Orleans, and he was always very proud of his German heritage. And my mother's from Alabama, and she learned to cook Louisiana food. And some German things, I think at his request. And we had a very typical Sunday dinner. Many dinners had roast beef, mashed potatoes, and peas. But she also made, probably her best dish, red beans, which we had at least once a week, and sometimes more often.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Always on Monday?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: That was -- that's her best dish.

MAN INTERVIEWER: Would she -- or did they -- they did red beans, and so there's a nod to New Orleans cooking. But a lot of parents are parents of the '50s, you know, what I call Cheese Whiz parents.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Right.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: But did she cook fresh? Did she cook canned? Did she -- how did the '50s kind of --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Probably a little bit of both. She also made dishes like catfish and grits, which is still one of my favorites, fried catfish and cornmeal and grits. And it was just wonderful. Chicken sauce piquant, she made occasionally. And she did some German things, like German potato salad, which was really, really good. warm potato salad, bacon and onions. So that was something I remember too.

But we also had -- you know, Wednesday nights were poker nights for my dad, and that was "pick it" night at home. We can pick whatever we want for dinner as long as it came out of a can. So Chef Boyardee™ was very popular.

WOMAN INTERVIER: You had a big selection of canned --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, you had ravioli or your -- you know. Usually ravioli.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Were there any special meals, like for special days: Thanksgiving, Christmas?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Oh, yeah. I mean, for the holidays, we always had a big family meal. And the signature dish at the Brigtsen holiday table is oyster dressing. That's something my mom is known for and still makes today.

And it's -- you know, she only got her oysters from one person, and he made sure to save her some oyster liquor.

And the running family joke is Mom's never happy with it. We always say, "Oh, this is great oyster dressing." And she'll say, "Oh, I didn't like it this year."

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Every year.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: That's her standard reply.

WOMAN INTERVIER: Every year.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And it's always fabulous.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Tell me about meal time at your home as a child. It's kind of what we went over, but do you mean, like, did y'all sit down at the same time when Dad got home from work or --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. I mean, we always -- there was a lot of ritual and tradition back then, maybe, you know, not unlike today with a lot of families. But we always sat and ate. We always had French bread on the table regardless of what we were having. And it was a time for family interaction, discussing the day's events or things coming up.

And my dad also had a tradition that he grew up with. We didn't really do it that much. But he always tried to impart some type of education at the table. He grew up, his father always had a dictionary on the dinner table, and every day the kids learned a new word. And although we weren't that strict about it, he always tried to teach us something.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: That's interesting. A good idea, actually.

MAN INTERVIEWER: Do you -- do you do that or do you -- do you have kids?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: No.

MAN INTERVIEWER: You don't?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: No.

We have the most irregular dining schedule you've ever seen.

Chefs are like that. We don't eat regularly. It's very hit and miss. The only time Marna and I sit down at home to eat is on Sunday and Monday, because we work nights. So that's our time.

WOMAN INTERVIER: Did you go out to eat much as a kid?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh. Where did you go?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, the two most -- the two places we went to the most are Charlie's Seafood on Jefferson Highway in River Ridge, which it's still there today.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: It opened in the '40s, and it was basically a seafood joint and -- where you buy boiled seafood and -- but Mr. Charlie, for a time, operated as a full-scale restaurant. And I have great memories of that place. I always got a softshell crab poboy.

And when we were very young, we were too -- we weren't able to pick our own boiled crabs and peel our own boiled crawfish, so Dad would do that for us. He'd make little plates for us. And then, as we grew older, we pretended like we still didn't know how to do it, so we would continue.

And that was also our exposure to things like raw oysters, which I really did not like as a kid. And I really -- he tried and he tried, he tried to get me to like them, I just couldn't. But then when I was 21, I fell in love with them, and it's now my favorite food.

And then the other place we ate at a lot was Sclafani's. Charlie's was our Saturday place, and Sunday was for Sclafani's, which was operated by, you know, a New Orleans Italian family, and we always got spaghetti and meatballs and a Roy Rogers for me and a Shirley Temple for my sister.

And they also made great fettucini, which my mother, for years, tried to duplicate. And in essence, later on, I realized it was really just the quality of the ingredients, you know, good cream, good cheese, good pasta and that -- we have a lot of fond memories of that.

But we ate at a lot of -- some of the more well-known New Orleans restaurants. Like, Manale's, we ate at a lot, places like that.

I have this visual memory from childhood of what I consider to be the art type of a New Orleans restaurant, and that is one that has pink and green neon signs outside that says "Steaks, seafood, Italian."

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Uh-huh.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: That's a New Orleans restaurant to me. And the left side of the menu is seafood, and the right side is mostly Italian, and a few steaks at the bottom. And that, to me, is the prototypical New Orleans restaurant.

MAN INTERVIEWER: Would you say that that's different from the rest of America in a sense or would you --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Oh, undoubtedly. Once I started traveling in my 20s, abroad and then here in the United States, then I realized that not everybody eats like we do. I really thought they did. But, you know, I mean, for us to, for instance, cover the picnic table with newspaper and throw out 40 pounds of boiled crawfish, which we did constantly. We did that all the time. And I thought everybody ate like that, and it's not true.

And the things I realized in traveling was that I think what really, really characterizes Louisiana food is seasoning. Not -- not spicy per se, but well-seasoned food. And you just don't find that everywhere.

MAN INTERVIEWER: Do you think that's that Italian influence or --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, I think it's -- I mean, New Orleans has been influenced by so many different cultures over the years, and it's really -- you know, "Creole" is a very all-encompassing word that really -- I mean, we've had large immigrations of Sicilians, French, German, Irish, African, West Indian, so many different cultures, and somewhere along the way, this thing developed. And it's really driven by an overwhelming passion for food.

And as a chef, I think that, you know, I'm really lucky. Because food is such a great medium to share with people because it touches people on so many levels and -- emotionally, physically, spiritually, socially -- so many different levels. And to do that for a living is really quite special. And growing up in New Orleans, it comes kind of naturally, to have that sort of connection with food and what it does to people.

I know my mentor, Paul Prudhomme, his real attraction to cooking was that you could make people happy with food and -- and he knew that when he was a kid cooking for his family. It changed people's lives literally. It can make their day, you know, I mean.

And -- and to have that kind of effect -- and it's not a one-time thing. I mean, eating is something we do every day. It's really one of the great joys of life for everybody. And to -- to be able do that for a living is pretty special.

MAN INTERVIEWER: At what point? Was it after your travels of the 20s? What point did you start thinking about it, making a living?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Oh. Well, I started working in -- in food service when I was in college at LSU, and I started in a sandwich shop just to make money for school, basically. And I then went on to another restaurant as a cook, and it was nothing fancy. And then I managed the place for a while.

And after college, when I moved back to New Orleans, I decided to pursue it as a career because it just felt so right. It just felt so natural. I was comfortable in restaurants. I think I was attracted to -- you know, restaurant life is really sort of a parallel universe to the rest of the world because you're -- you're often working nights, and there's a part of the world you never see, and that's the 9-to-5 world, and I didn't feel comfortable in that world. I knew that. And the people that work in restaurants tend to be pretty interesting too, so it felt like a natural thing for me to do.

And I was fortunate enough in the late '70s to meet Paul Prudhomme when he was a chef at Commander's Palace and -- and he hired me as an apprentice. I had a few years of experience with food, but nothing serious, and not in any really high-end restaurants. But he gave me a chance to learn. And that was a turning point in my life.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: And you didn't at that point have, like, any schooling in food, you know, like culinary school, any of that kind of --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: No, no. That wasn't even a concern for me because I didn't know they had culinary schools at that time. I studied fine arts, painting and printmaking.

And a friend of mine at that time, after one year of college, said -- told me he was going to the CIA, and I was shocked. Because I knew he's not CIA material. And then he told me what it was. It's the Culinary Institute of America, which I'd never heard of.

So I'm more of a -- I guess more of an old-school New Orleans chef in that I learned on the job. And so many great New Orleans cooks have taken that same route.

And it happened to just -- it was really sort of magical in the sense that it happened at a time when American food and American chefs were coming into their own and getting recognized for how great they really were. I mean, prior to 1975, you probably could not name one American chef.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Yeah, that's probably true.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Most restaurants, hotels, and resorts, et cetera, were all run by European chefs, which is fine. But I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. And people like Paul Prudhomme and Alice Waters and Larry Fortuon(sp) and Wolfgang Puck, all these people, all of a sudden, it seemed, were garnering lots of attention.

And Paul, of course, is simply a phenomena. I mean, the man is -- you know, he was put on this earth for a reason, and it all came to him. And to be a part of those early years at K-Paul's was really, really magical.

WOMAN INTERVIER: I'm supposed to ask you about shopping for food, like, in the early days, like, as a young person. I mean, like, did you go to markets, did -- with your parents or your mother, just to, like, the Winn-Dixie or did she go to the French Market or --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: I think just like anybody else growing up in America, we shopped at the big grocery stores. But you always had certain items -- like the oysters, for instance, and the boiled crawfish, we all -- we only got that at Charlie's seafood. That's the only place we would buy.

And we also, you know, really had a great appreciation for the great seasonal things.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Okay.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: We always had Louisiana navel oranges in the wintertime. That was something we had a case of always. And we ate plenty of them. Things like that that you just kind of take for granted as a kid. As you get older, you sort of appreciate how special they are because they're only here for a short time.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Yeah, that's right.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And you learn about seasonality, which, I think, is crucial in cooking.

And even today at Brigtsen's, after almost 17 years, I still do all the food-buying myself. And it's a big job. It's a big part of what we do. And we've developed over the years relationships with people.

And, you know, this is a food business, but it's really a people business. It's the people that dine with us, the people that work with us, and the people we get food from. They're very important. And so we have a -- probably a couple a dozen specialists that we work with. We have a shrimp guy. We have an oyster guy. We have a mushroom person. We have local greens from a particular farmer. We have a rabbit farmer. Catfish, we buy directly from the fishermen.

So procuring product in our business is crucial, and those are the building blocks of our cuisine, and so it's important that you source the best that you can and -- and it's also really fun to develop relationships with people that are trying to do things the right way.

There are easier ways to do it. You know, the food industry, like many industries in America today, have undergone lots of merging conglomerations, big, big, big companies, and some of them are designed to be one-stop shopping; in other words, a restaurant can all up and get just about everything they need from one place.

But that's not my style. We change our menu daily. Although it doesn't change that dramatically, it gives us great flexibility. And that's what I really enjoy.

For instance, I have a preference for wild fish. I don't really like farm-raised fish that much. And as long as we have fresh, wild, local fish, that's what we're going to use.

MAN INTERVIEWER: And so you're dealing with fisherman as opposed to commercial fishers, necessarily?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, they have to be commercial fisherman for me to deal with them.

MAN INTERVIEWER: Oh, I see.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: But with fish, for instance, if you think about it, seafood, and fish in particular, is the last wild food left on earth. Beef, chicken, all these things, are farm-raised, which is fine. But fish is like the last wild food left, and you have to really understand it, how the business of fishing works and, unfortunately, how the politics of fishing works.

But you have to be extremely flexible. If I'm making a menu for something a month away, I can't tell you what kind of fish I'm going to be serving because it changes day to day. And here at Brigtsen's, I mean, we're known to change a fish in a dish in the middle of service because of supply and things like that.

MAN INTERVIEWER: But -- and you're dealing with farmers, you said, for instance, across the lake or whatever. I mean, obviously, you don't care to tell who they are.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Oh, I'm very proud of who they are.

I've been dealing with our rabbit man for over 20 years now at K-Paul's and here at Brigtsen's. And Dan Crutchfield(sp) at Creek Hollow Farm is his name, and he's in Mississippi. And he used to work in the chemical industry, and he had a life-changing point in his life, and he said, "This is not the way life is supposed to be." And he became an organic farmer and bought land in Mississippi and proceeded to build up a business for himself, raising rabbits, growing organic vegetables and herbs.

And so -- and there are dozens of people like that that I deal with and -- you know, essentially, I don't really place orders with some of these people. I pretty much take what they have and find a way to use it, as a means of supporting them and -- in their endeavors, because they're trying to do it right.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: So you would make your menu around what's available rather than --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Right. Many, many, many of our recipes come from sort of the "Necessity is the mother of invention" school of thought. Because we'll have ingredients, and we'll say, okay, how -- what are with going to do with them. And that's how a lot of things get developed.

MAN INTERVIEWER: So for you, a lot of creative work goes on and new dishes and all that.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Oh, yeah.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Because I know -- I know your cooking, you respect so much the traditions of New Orleans cooking, and you're always doing it in a wonderful, interesting way.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, I think -- I think for a time, in the '80s and '90s, you know, there was such an explosion of interest in food and chefs and restaurants and cuisines. And it seemed like every month Food Magazine was proclaiming this is the cuisine of the month. South Pacific cuisine. Hawaiian cuisine, southern Italian cuisine. And pretty soon, they ran out.

But the bottom lime is, you know, Louisiana cooking is well over 200 years old. And it may not be new, but it's still great. And I have a great respect for that. I mean, every time I put on a chef's uniform, I'm putting on 200 years of history.

And we still make gumbo every week. And it's not cutting edge, it's not -- we're not reinventing the wheel. We're just making good gumbo. But as a New Orleans chef, I'm proud to do that. I mean, if I don't make a good gumbo, who is.

So -- and I think, in a sense, we kind of -- for instance, when we opened Brigtsen's Restaurant in 1986, I was very intent on changing my menu daily because that's the way I was taught from Paul. And I was changing it dramatically every day. But I soon realized that we had customers coming in who were saying, "Oh, we brought our friends in to try the duck dish we had two weeks ago and you don't have it." I said, "Oh, I'm sorry."

And I realized that I'm not cooking for me, I'm cooking for our guests. And we're here to make them happy. And -- and some people want the same thing every time. We have regular customers who eat the same thing every Friday night for seven years. But they are other people that want the new thing every time they come in.

So you have to have balance and keep things in perspective. You know, this is a chef-owned restaurant, but it's driven by our guests and what they want. That's what's important.

MAN INTERVIEWER: That's another aspect to me about New Orleans restaurants in the sense of that there is a category called the neighborhood restaurant, that I call the neighborhood restaurant.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Right.

MAN INTERVIEWER: And, I mean -- let me see if I can phrase this question.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: That you know what to expect, that you can always go in and get the softshell poboy or the -- something like that, or a certain plate dinner?

MAN INTERVIEWER: And this in terms of -- I always think of you as a neighborhood restaurant that's at the high end of flavor -- of creativity and all of that, I guess is -- yeah.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: That's really -- that goes back to what we tried to accomplish when we opened. You know, people were asking, "What kind of restaurant is it going to be?" You know, "What are you going to call it?" "What kind of cuisine is it?" And I really had no answer whatsoever. I couldn't answer that myself. All I knew in my heart was I wanted a good New Orleans restaurant.

And I guess you'd have to grow up in New Orleans to understand what that means. It has to do with making people happy and having something to be -- that could be long-lasting, that could be gratifying for you and the people that work here and the people that eat here and have its roots in a New Orleans sensibility.

I never make any rules when I make dishes. You know, I don't compartmentalize what I do. I'm always open-ended and open-minded. But inevitably, things have a way of coming back to my roots, which is here in New Orleans.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Do you remember being handed down recipes or different foods from your grandmother or --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: We have a couple of things. I mean, one of the main things I try to accomplish in terms of family food is learn how to make my mom's oyster dressing and -- because she only basically uses five ingredients, but lots of them. I mean, it's green onion, celery, parsley, cooked down really hard. And oysters, oyster water, and French bread. And that's pretty much it.

So like a lot of great Louisiana dishes, it's not the ingredients, it's the technique. Because in southwestern Louisiana, for instance, in Acadian country, a lot of the Acadian people were poor people: Farmers sharecroppers, fishermen. They had no money to spend on ingredients; and if they were sharecropping, they sent all their best stuff to market for cash, and kept the lesser-quality ingredients for themselves; a large family in many cases, with, for instance, one old hen. And how do you make that?

And there's where dishes like jambalaya come from. Dishes like smothered chicken or chicken étoffée, that's where those dishes come from. Gumbo.

So it's not -- I mean, I look across America today in 2003, and, you know, food is better than ever, restaurants are better than ever. But a lot of menus that I see could be from anywhere, really.

And they're very ingredient-driven. You know, you have top-end, high-end piece of meat, for instance, with boutte(sp) gourmet vegetables, some kind of weird starch or either a reduction or a vinaigrette sauce. But there's no real cooking involved. You're grilling, you're searing, you're sauteeing or something, but there's no real cooking as we know it here in Louisiana. So it's very ingredient-driven cuisine.

So what -- and that's great. There's nothing wrong with that. But what I really enjoy -- I mean, I could spend all day just doing what we call "pot cooking": Making dressings, making stuffings, making soups. I could do that all day and go home. Because that's the kind of cooking I enjoy. It's long-term cooking, you know, things that may take hours to make; dirty rice; jambalaya; soups, I love. That's the kind of cooking I really enjoy.

And that's technique-oriented cooking. Real recipes, not just ingredients that are put together. And I think that's a characteristic of our cooking too.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: That makes sense.

Has your mother written this recipe down? Are you writing it down or --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: It's written down somehow. She's got her little, you know, index-card box with all the faded recipes.

And another -- I mean, one of my favorite family recipes is something we don't make very often, but it's called paradise pudding, and it's my -- my Jewish aunt Minyon Epstein, the late-great, made it for holidays. And it's made in a springform pan with -- that's lined with ladyfingers and crumbled almond macaroons. And the filling is so rich, you wouldn't believe it. It's butter and cream and eggs and crushed almond macaroons. And it sits up for a day and then it's topped with whipped cream. And I made sure and got that recipe. In fact, my mom had copies made and framed for all of us children so that we'll always have it.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: That's night.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: But I would encourage anybody anywhere that enjoys their family dishes to learn how to make them, you know, make sure they -- that those great traditions continue. Go work with your mom one Thanksgiving or your aunt or your grandmother and learn how to make that dish.

And you really have to do it with them, I think.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Yeah.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Because home cooks, who are the greatest chefs in the world, have their own way of doing things, their own way of describing things, their own way of measuring things. You know, how many family recipes call for one large spoon of something. And so you really have to see it to learn it. And that's the greatest food in the world. Are there any foods that you no longer see eaten in New Orleans? I don't know. We're pretty -- we're pretty tied to our tradition. I mean, to me, New Orleans is a big small town, and it's a little bit provincial in a way, and particularly about food.

And we've seen -- we have seen so many trends and fads come and go over the last 30 years in food, yet we still love to go out and eat Trout Meuniere. We still eat lots of Bernaise sauce. We still eat all these things that are no longer fashionable, that are no longer considered good for you. But they'll always be a part of New Orleans cuisine. We have a love for that. And I hope it never goes away.

MAN INTERVIEWER: You serve that a lot? Do you get a lot of call for it or --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Yeah. We serve Bernaise every day. We -- when we serve -- when we can get Speckled Trout and do a dish with -- we usually do spiced pecans and either shrimp or crab meat in a meuniere sauce. And that's always extremely popular.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Sure.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And there's nothing wrong with it.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: It's good.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: I don't care if it's not cutting edge. I don't care if it's not going to be on the cover of a food magazine. It makes people happy, and that's all I care about.

WOMAN INTERVIER: I think we have --

MAN INTERVIEWER: Well, let me bring you back, then. Let's go back to the moment at -- and this kind of plays into, I think, to cooking techniques, both traditionally and now, and how they've evolved and all that -- but the moment of hooking up with Chef Paul.

Because, really, the restaurant business or the restaurants -- well, they weren't mired, but they were serving the old-style, you know, Antoine's, Galatoire’s French-influenced food, it seems. And, of course, everybody you talk to says Chef Paul changed that.

So you were right there at the hyper-center of the change, you know. And I thought, you know, maybe you can talk to that a little bit. I know you were young and just learning, but on the other hand --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, I think, to put things in perspective, I've always felt that New Orleans is so much different from the rest of Louisiana; and Louisiana, in turn, is so much different from the rest of the South, for instance. And I think those lines are clearly drawn. I mean, just look at the way we talk.

But, to me, even though Paul Prudhomme and Frank Brigtsen were born and raised in Louisiana, we were so different. He showed me things I had no clue about: The importance of a dark roux, for instance; how to make étoffée and what that meant, for instance.

MAN INTERVIEWER: How do you mean, what it means?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, I mean, what does étoffée mean? It means smothered.

MAN INTERVIEWER: Smothered, yeah.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And I didn't know that. And I didn't know why that was such a great thing.

And, you know, I remember, for instance, as a kid, another great childhood memory for me was -- I was probably about seven, and one weekend -- one Sunday, my mom and dad took us out to somewhere near Lafayette to visit some people that they knew. And it was very strange to me. It was like a foreign country.

And they -- they made a barbecue. They were barbecuing chicken. And the two -- well, two of the main things I remember from that day was my first taste of Dirty Rice, which was absolutely incredible. I never tasted anything so good in my life. And the second was barbecued chicken gizzards, which, I assume we always threw away, but it was so good.

And then, of course, I also remember the large, deep, big cooler they had in the garage full of grape Nehi that I must have drank a dozen of.

MAN INTERVIEWER: The perfect complement to gizzards.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: But it was the -- it was the same kind of thing with Paul. I mean, I -- you know, how do you make Dirty Rice? I mean, that's kind much a mystery, Dirty Rice.

And really, it goes back to the humble technique of utilizing every part of a chicken. Nothing goes to waste, not when you're poor, not when you're trying to feed a big family and you don't have a lot of money. Nothing goes to waste. And that's what Dirty Rice is.

And I think it was -- it was about 1979 at Commander's that I first saw peeled crawfish tails available for a restaurant. I think they had just pioneered that industry, that process. And Paul, you know, brought in I don't know how many pounds of these crawfish tails.

And it was a miracle. I mean, we grew up, you know, going through all this work to eat crawfish, and here they are all peeled already. So it was a miracle.

And he created a dish that was so simple and so good, a wonderful saute of crawfish with butter and green onions, parsley and garlic, served with rice. And here we were serving this in Commander's Palace. These things were flying out the door. We couldn't -- we couldn't make them fast enough. It was such a phenomena.

And, you know, I mean, when Paul was hired as executive chef at Commander's Palace by Ellen and Dick Brennan, I remember seeing it in the newspaper. It was front-page news. Because here was a county boy, Louisiana country boy from Opelousas, heading up the fanciest restaurant in town. And that was news, because he was local.

But -- but anyway, he sort of taught me, I guess, the country style of cooking.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Today's January 31st, 2003, and we're at Brigtsen's Restaurant with Frank Brigtsen.

And I guess the first question is -- and I'm starting back with your professional career with Commander's.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, after I returned to New Orleans from LSU, I was working at restaurants here in town, and I did that for a year and a half or two and -- and then came to a point in my life where I had lost my apartment, my car, my girlfriend. I was 24 years old and wound up moving back in with Mom and Dad.

And after two weeks of that, I realized I had to do something. So I happened to pick up the classified ads that day, and there was an ad for Commander's Palace restaurant looking for cooks or people willing to learn Creole cuisine. So that was just right for me. So I went in to apply. Of course, I had to get Mom and Dad to drive me down there at the age of 24.

So I went in, and the chef at Commander's at that time was Paul Prudhomme. This was 1978 or '79 and -- so I filled out an application, had a long talk with Paul for about an hour.

And what was interesting was -- I mean, he looked at my application, you know, my work history, and things like that. But the real focus of our talk was, I guess, trying to get to know each other and finding out what I wanted out of life and much broader philosophical terms than simply applying for a job. And, you know, at that time, he asked me what I wanted in life, and I said, "Well, one day I'd like to have my own little place."

So I came back again twice more for long talks. So after three interviews, he decided to give me a chance. And he offered me a choice. You know, he said, "You -- you can be a line cook and we'll expect a lot of you, or you can be an apprentice, and you can expect a lot from us."

And I knew I wasn't ready to work the line of Commander's. So I opted for the apprenticeship route and started at the bottom, in the pantry, making salads and desserts and things like that, appetizers.

And it was -- it was many things. It was the greatest challenge of my life because it was a very, very busy busier than I'd ever been. And also, the quality of the food and service was much higher than I'd ever been involved with. So it was a tremendous learning experience, and I had some very good people teaching me there. The other cooks were very helpful.

And so I was working night pantry, a station where, literally, you're never really completely set up. You're always just going, going, going, going, going. And -- well, they didn't tell me it was a two-man position either.

WOMAN INTERVIER: Oh, goodness.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: So I was doing it by myself, and -- and it was a challenge and it was a learning experience. And I really loved it. I was a nervous wreck, but I really loved it.

And after a couple weeks of doing that, one Sunday morning, which is Sunday brunch day at Commander's, the biggest -- the biggest shift of the week, there was a schedule change, and two of the saute cooks didn't show up because they didn't know they were supposed to be there. So the other -- well, the other cooks were teasing me, saying, "Frank, you know how to make an omelet?" And I said, "No, I don't."

And that banter went on for a couple of hours. And then it got to be crunch time. It was about 10:30, and we opened at 11:00. And they said, "Frank, you're on. You're going to be working saute, back-line saute. So I said, "Sure, you know. Just tell me what to do."

So it was an adventure. It was my first real exposure to hot-line cooking. The restaurants I had worked in before were not, you know, really up to that kind of standard. So, you know, a lot of my omelets hit the grill, but I finally got it right.

And Commander's really proved to be a great place to learn because there's such care and commitment to the food and the guests. I mean, three or four people looked at my work before it got to the guests. You know, including Mr. Dick Brennan. You know, he'd send it back and tell me do it again if it wasn't right; and I did it.

And once again, they didn't tell me that was a two-man station either. So I did that for a couple of weeks, and then they moved me to the front line. And I got to work broiler, saute, and expediting, which was a real challenge also.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: What's that?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, you control the tickets and the ordering of the food.

WOMAN INTERVIER: Oh.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: So it takes tremendous attention to detail and focus and organization.

So -- now, all these things took place in a span of six months. So in six months, I got to work every station in the restaurant, which was wonderful.

And I think that's what's really great about the restaurant business is that you can progress and move up. And it all depends, really, on your performance and opportunity. And if you perform well, when the opportunities arise, you'll get the chance. And that's what happened to me, and it was -- it was a blessed thing.

And then came another fateful day. Again, it was a Sunday {"check}morning and busy. And I was running around. I was moving plates around. I had about 50 plates in my hand and rushing around. And Chef was in front of the kitchen. He said, "Frank, come here a minute."

"Yeah, Chef."

He said, "How you feel about sauces?"

I said, "Well, I really like them."

He says, "No, no, no. Let me rephrase that."

I didn't know what he was trying to get out. So ultimately, he asked me if I wanted to come work with him or for him at K-Paul's.

He had, amazingly enough, opened K-Paul's while he was the chef at Commander's. And at the time, it was just a lunch place, and he would go into K-Paul's at 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning and do pot-cooking and set up the lunch line.

And I'd never heard of the place at the time. It was only seven or eight months old. But I did whatever he asked me to do, of course.

So he would go in in the mornings and set up lunch. And then about 10:30, we'd go over the menu, and then I would cook lunch by myself. And he would go to his real job at Commander's.

And after lunch, I'd clean up and then start prepping dinner. And then I'd cook dinner by myself at K-Paul's, me and a dishwasher. And maybe 10, 10:30 at night, Paul would come back talk over the day and what was going on the next day.

And that was an amazing, amazing time, and again, a tremendous learning experience.

Because I was pretty green. I didn't really know much. And I just had the fire and the desire to learn, really. And he gave me a shot.

And that went on for about three months until his contract at Commander's was up. And -- well, when I came was when K-Paul's opened for dinner. That was the first dinner service. And after three months of that, Paul came over to K-Paul's full time. And he took over the stove at night, and I worked next to him expediting and setting up plates. And that went on for a few weeks.

And at that time, our nightly business had grown from 30 or 40 people at night to 150. And that went on for, I guess, six or seven weeks.

And it was -- it was -- it was my culinary school. I mean, standing next to Paul Prudhomme and watching him cook, it was a visual reference for me. I mean the timing, the temperature, the taste, all the things that go into great food, the little things that make big differences, that's where I learned it. And it was a magical time.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: It's really lucky.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Yeah, very lucky.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: He seems like such a nice person.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Oh, yeah. Well, Paul is a gift to the rest of us. That's the way I look at it. I mean, he's a really special man.

You know, he -- he's a -- you know, he can be a very strict and stern taskmaster, and he worked us really, really hard. But he's also the sweetest, nicest guy, with the biggest heart, that you'll ever meet.

And I worked with him for seven years. And after seven years, he still remembered that first interview at Commander's, that one day I wanted my own little place. And he and Kay felt that I was ready.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh, really?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And pushed me to do it, encouraged me to do it, get out and start looking for a place.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Well, that's amazing.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Yeah.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: So rather than trying to hang on to you, he --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: No. They felt it was time for me to do it.

And, I mean, I would have never done it without him. I certainly had no money, and I didn't have the guts, really. And they encouraged me to do it and made it happen for me and lent me the money to do it.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Wow.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: At a time when it was not easy for them. They came up with the money to fund Brigtsen's, to get it open. And, I mean, I know in my heart that Paul and Kay wanted Brigtsen's as much as I did, if not more. And, you know, so I am indeed the luckiest guy in the world.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Yeah, you really are.

MAN INTERVIEWER: Do you remember that interview, what you -- say a little more about --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, I don't remember specific details, only in a broad sense in that it was very philosophical, and he was just trying to learn about me and if -- you know, what kind of values I had and what -- if I realized, I think, what was important in life.

And, you know, I didn't care how much money I made, I just wanted to learn.

MAN INTERVIEWER: Considering how you moved up, you figure they must have run that want ad all the time and had these --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, back then, Commander's, like a lot of restaurants, was -- the larger restaurants in town, were -- were in sort of a yearly cycle. Because in the summertime, restaurant business slows down dramatically, and -- so they pare down their crews when summertime comes. And as fall approaches, they hire quite a bit.

And there were dozens and dozens and dozens of applicants, you know, for the jobs that they had. This was in late September and -- some really good ones too. I'm still friends with the four or five people that were hired at the same time I was.

And some others went on to open their own restaurants too. Steve Gambel trained me in the pantry. He went on to open Gambel's on Metairie Road.

Phil Murray, who came from Michigan, ultimately moved back to Michigan, opened his own very successful restaurant.

And Ralph Garcina also was in my group, and although a little younger than me, he went on to open Barataria Restaurant on Harrison.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: So it was a really good group of people and -- I mean, Paul, one thing he's really great at and loves to do is teach. And he and maybe two or three other chefs in town felt the need to have a forum to teach apprentices. And they, on their, own organized an apprenticeship program. And it was, like, two classes. And I was in one of them. And we would meet once a week at a chef's restaurant and have classes and learn and do things and do projects. And I did that for as long as I could, a couple of months. But, quite frankly, I was so busy at K-Paul's that I did not come to the class anymore.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: So it was while you were still working that you were doing the --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: I would take a break between lunch and dinner to go to class.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh, goodness.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: But ultimately, I really went to the class to try and recruit someone to come back to K-Paul's and help me that night.

And ultimately, I quit going to classes because I was just too involved at work. But that program grew and became what is now the apprenticeship program at Delgado.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: The culinary program at Delgado.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: So he really wasn't interested in -- so much in the experience that you had had cooking or any of that, it was really your desire to learn. Because he could teach.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Yeah. Paul -- and I'm the same way today. I don't really hire according to your experience, your resumé. Those things are important, and we look at them, of course, but we're not hiring cooks, we're hiring people. And it's much more important to me to hire the right person, in my view, who wants to work with us for the right reasons. You know, we're here to make people happy.

And if you have the fire and the desire and the commitment and understand what we're trying to do, that means a lot more than your experience. It doesn't matter who you were and what age. It doesn't matter. You have to have it inside. And that's what you try and find.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: I'm amazed you had the -- I mean, I wouldn't have had the guts to go and apply without, like, background, schooling, or something. It's amazing.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: It was pretty intimidating. It really was. And the thing that -- that triggered it was the wording of the classified ad: "People willing to learn."

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Uh-huh.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: That just clicked right away because that's what I wanted to do. It was at that time I decided that that's what I wanted to do for a living is become a New Orleans chef. And that was my way to do it.

And, well, the way things snowballed after that was just sheer magic. Because it was a confluence of events and timing and things happening in American culture that put me in that spot at the time when American chefs were coming to the forefront. The press was all over us and -- and -- not me, but Paul and others -- giving them a lot of attention for the things they've been doing for 200 years. And it was really phenomenal.

And the growth of K-Paul's, I mean, was hard to describe, really.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Yes.

MAN INTERVIEWER: Well, Chef, there's -- when you guys met, it was at Commander's, which -- and you were invited by ad to learn Creole cooking and all that. And then he was opening the -- obviously had K-Paul's in his mind or had just opened it at the same time, I guess at this time, and -- well, I guess my question is, is about the food, about the food at Commander's and -- and -- I'm not going to ask you to say whether he was unhappy or not or happy or whatever with what he was cooking. But obviously, he changed. When we talk about the growth of K-Paul's, K-Paul's is a real benchmark moment in culinary history in this city.

So I guess what I'm asking is: The food that --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Why did he open K-Paul's?

MAN INTERVIEWER: -- he learned there and then the Creole -- Pardon me?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Why did he open K-Paul's?

MAN INTERVIEWER: No, just how the -- how the food changed and what you were learning and -- and --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, I think you have to understand the larger context of the late '70s.

For instance, when Paul was hired, I remember seeing that in the paper. It was front-page news that a cajun boy from Opelousas got hired to head up one of the big fancy restaurants in New Orleans.

And it was revolutionary. There's no other word for it. The Brennans were smart enough and astute enough to take a chance. And rightfully so.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Yeah.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: They believed in him, believed in Louisiana food, and they -- they rolled the dice because they didn't think it was a gamble. They knew it was good.

And I think Paul -- I mean, from my understanding, he -- he opened K-Paul's for two reasons, I think: Number one, for Kay. They had worked together at Mason due pri; she in the front, he in the kitchen. They fell in love, and they wanted to do something together. So he opened K-Paul's for Kay.

And he also opened for another reason, which is he wanted a place where his very large family from Opelousas could come to New Orleans and eat his food at a place they were comfortable at.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh, uh-huh.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Because Commander's was fancy and dress-up and all that.

And I remember in the early days, oh, God, one day, a whole bunch of his brothers and sisters came into K-Paul's. It was, like, 12 of them.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And I had to cook for them by myself, and man, was I scared. Because I knew these people knew good food, and I was really, really, really nervous that day.

But, you know, K-Paul's was a lunch place. It was very casual, and anybody felt comfortable there.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Yeah.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And I think that was, you know, in his heart and soul, what he wanted. And I know that neither he nor Kay could envision the phenomena that K-Paul's would become. It just plain happened. Kay referred to it as "The miracle on Charter Street." Because it truly was.

And the things he was doing at the time were revolutionary and a lot of eye-opening things to me. Because I really wasn't that familiar with the food of Arcadia that he grew up with because I grew up in New Orleans. So it was a learning experience in that sense for me too.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: I couldn't get enough of that place when it first opened, I'd get that sauteed seafood platter for something like $5.00.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Oh, yeah. 5.95.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Yeah. It was so cheap and so good.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Our record for lunch -- now, the restaurant sat 55 people. And one Friday lunch, I made 105 seafood platters.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh, my goodness.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: All cooked to order.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Jeez.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: It was phenomenal.

And really, you know, we had just opened for dinner when I got there. I was the first night cook. And it was really an adjustment because it was, you know, a lunch place.

And I remember one of the most humorous things -- and it happened all the time -- was, you know, the transition from a lunch menu to the dinner menu. And we would have some new things on for dinner that we were trying, but a lot of the lunch things would be transposed to the dinner menu.

And Kay, would say, "Well, you know, shouldn't we raise the price a little bit?" And Paul would say, "Nuh." You know, if something was 4.25, he's say, "Okay, make it 4.50." And she would say, "Well, how about 5.50?"

And they used to bicker over 50 cents. And it was so funny, because Paul didn't want to raise the prices even 75 cents. It was hilarious.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Well, that certainly changed.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Yeah. Well, inevitably.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh, certainly.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: I mean, Paul opened K-Paul's on a shoestring, and he didn't have much money then. And, you know, the staff was very minimal, very minimal. But in six-months' time, it expanded tenfold.

And Paul always took good care of the staff and -- I mean, we didn't realize it, then -- I didn't. I was too young -- but as a 17-year-old veteran of restaurant owner, I mean, I know that the biggest expense is payroll. It's not the food, it's not the rent, it's not the employees, it's payroll.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Wow.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: So --

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: And those employee meals?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Yeah, that too.

MAN INTERVIEWER: So you knew you really had something when you had a Kid who was willing to work double stations by himself.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Yeah. Exactly. I'm sure that was one of my most prominent features, yes.

MAN INTERVIEWER: Did you -- did you feel overwhelmed or you felt like you had found a home or --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Both. Both. I felt, you know -- it was -- it just felt so right.

MAN INTERVIEWER: Um-hum.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: But it's also so special, because we had a sense that something was happening there.

At the time, it was me and a helper during the day and -- and me and a dishwasher at night; and in the front was Kay and two waitresses; one of which was Sandy Hanson --

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Uh-huh.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: -- who's now my sister-in-law. I met my wife through K-Paul's. She came to visit one Christmas, and we fell in love, and she moved here, and we married.

But we knew something was special going on because of the reaction from people. I mean, people in New Orleans had never tasted anything like that and we knew something was going on.

But every day was an adventure, every day was a challenge. And I'm learning on my feet, basically. Paul was astute enough to bring in some more experienced people later on. So that I could concentrate on dinner service, he brought in a very experienced chef to take over the daytime. And I learned from him and -- and some of the other people. He brought in people that he knew were good.

Amazingly enough, eventually Paul Miller, who was my soup (or sous) chef at Commander's Palace, came to work for me.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Wow.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: I was the night chef, and here's a guy who knows 20 million times more than I do, and he came to work for me.

So that was kind of funny. But it was that kind of place. Paul brought in people that he felt could contribute.

And Paul Miller now runs the whole show.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Paul is -- he's the chef and general manager at K-Paul's, and he runs that operation. He's also from Opelousas.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh, really?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: So I had the benefit of learning from some really wonderful people.

Another big influence on me was George Rhodes (sp) who was a phenomena of his own. At a very young age, he took a tremendous interest in being a chef and learning. And he -- although younger than me, he had an incredible amount of knowledge that he shared with me and helped me when I made mistakes, and I owe a lot to George Rhodes too.

And George went on to his own successes. He -- his family, whole family, basically's been in the food business. But he went on to open George IV in Metairie.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Right.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Then he went on into more of a consulting chef type of business. He worked with Al Copeland for many years, and now he's an independent food consultant.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: I never knew that was his place on Metairie Road.

So did Paul and Kay help you found this place, or you actually found the location and -- or they helped advise you on --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, as it happened, one of the waitresses at K-Paul's at that time was studying to be a real estate agent on the side.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And so I went out with her, and she hooked up with, you know, a real estate agent with the company she was working with. And those two ladies had the distinct pleasure of driving me around town and trying to figure out what the hell I wanted. Because I didn't know.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Right.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: So they'd take me to restaurant locations and we'd go look at it, and they'd say, "What do you think?" And I'd say no.

And after about six weeks of that, they said, "Frank, what do you want?" And I said, "I really don't know, but I'll let you know when I find it."

All I knew is I wanted a small place similar in scale to K-Paul's, you know, 50, 60 seats, 70, 80, maybe. But when we found this location, I walked in the front door and knew right away. It was instantly --

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Was it still Dante by the River at the time; it was still functioning?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Yeah, yeah. Was here as Dante's by the River, and she wanted to make a change in her life. So the real estate agent was friendly with dialer. And she put the two of us together, and we made the deal. And I bought the business from her and took over the lease and the building, and we opened five days later.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh, my goodness.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Again, with Paul's, shall I say, encouragement, he said, "Well, you know you're not getting a paycheck anymore, so you better get open quick."

So we did. And those five days were the hardest five days of my life. Because I -- I mean, I was a pretty good cook, but I didn't know anything about business. So I had to learn again on my feet and -- but Paul, you know, he didn't throw me to the wolves. He set me up with the best CPA in the world and the best attorney in the world to handle my affairs.

So Beau Perant(sp), the CPA, continued to be my CPA up until just a couple years ago. And he was much more than my accountant. He was my friend and -- still is my friend, of course, and also a business consultant. You know, he steered me when I needed help.

And Bill Reinhardt, the attorney, is still my attorney today and has always helped me and whenever I have things to look at and things to take care of.

So you know, Paul, as is his way, continues to help me today.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: When you opened -- I assumed it wasn't filled. Not like --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, the first night we opened, we did 72 people.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Wow.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Most of them, K-Paul's employees.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Okay. Okay.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Including Paul and Kay.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh, that's nice.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And it was an eventful evening. It was great. Everything went well.

I think Paul's favorite part of the evening was when the -- he was sitting in the dining room, and our new big old industrial coffee maker flipped a circuit, and the lights went out in the back. And all Paul heard at his table was, "Well, jump over the fence and fix it." So, you know, it was one of those restaurant nights, you know, and -- excuse me. So that was a good start.

And, you know, we didn't really do a lot of advertising. I mean, we didn't have any money. We got the word out best we could. Paul and I did some PR shots and, you know, kind of spread the word a little bit.

And again, he -- I think he and Kay were extremely instrumental in getting the word out. Our good friends at WDSU, Margaret Orr and Al Gifford, used to do a food show, the cooking segments, were so helpful to me. They had me on several times. They came out here and filmed a live piece, which helped get the word out.

But the first few months -- we opened in March, and it was up and down and -- and -- you know, for various reasons. We had some wonderful people who came in to eat with us and loved the place and -- and they said, "The food was great. We'll be back when you get central AC."

Because all -- all we had was window units at the time, and it was kind of warm. And so as soon as I got $10,000 together, I bought central AC as my first big purchase.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And Paul and Eve Rosenblum have been eating with us every Friday night at 7:30 for the last 17 years.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Right over there.

MR. BRIGTSEN: Wonderful, wonderful friends.

But there -- I mean, there was a night we did four people, and two -- two of them are friends.

And I wore out the carpet in the hall pacing. I mean, if you could see pictures of me from that time, just complete black circles under my eyes. I mean, I was just -- I worry a lot. My first business venture and, you know, feeling responsibility of everyone that came along for the ride with me, and -- just worried a lot.

And then a real turning point was in June of that year. We'd been open three months, and we got reviewed by the newspaper, The Times-Picayune. Gene Borde (sp) was the food writer at the time and gave us an incredible review.

And I don't know if Gene knows this, but someone else at the paper called us the night before and tipped us off.

So, you know, I guess a former art student, I'm very sensitive to criticism, so I wanted to know exactly what this person was going to do. So the reviews come out on Friday. So the night before, the Thursday night, after I finished cooking, I drove over to The Times-Picayune to get some papers and -- because I couldn't find them anywhere, and they said, "You can't get them." "Well, go over there. There's one over there."

So I got some and came back to the restaurant, and we all read it together, the staff. And it was -- it was really glowing to us. And, I mean, I had never been reviewed as a chef before, ever. So it was a monumental thing in our lives.

And we drank a lot of champagne. We were second-lining around the dining room, really having too much fun, and not realizing that the next day would be the busiest day of our lives because the phone was ringing off the hook.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Sure.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: So we're all in here, hung over, trying to -- trying live up to our 5-Bean review. So that was fun.

But then people knew about us. That's really what --

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: That was it.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: -- what got accomplished, and people knew about us. And from then on, things changed. Things went very well. And we went through our own growth period, you know, and evolution.

And I think -- you know, during those days, Paul and I still talked fairly regularly, and -- and he would help me when I had problems and stuff.

And I mean, you know, when I -- when I -- when I opened Brigtsen's, people would say, "What kind of restaurant is it going to be?" I said, "I don't know how to describe it. I just -- I just want to get open and cook."

And, you know, Paul was famous blackened redfish, and I had blackened -- we estimated that I had blackened about 60,000 of them while I was at K-Paul's. And that's minimum. So needless to say, I didn't want to blacken any more Redfish.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Right.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And that's his dish. You know, I didn't want to come --

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Yeah.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: -- open my own restaurant and serve his food per se. So I didn't have blackened Redfish.

And so after a couple of weeks, Paul called me and said, "You know, I heard you're not serving blackened Redfish."

"No, you know, it's your dish, and I don't think it's right."

And he said, "Well, people are telling me that they want it. That's what I'm hearing. I know it's how you feel. I understand your philosophical feelings are there. But what I would suggest is give the people what they want. Give them blackened Redfish. Do it for a while and then do your own thing. Get them in once and then do your own thing."

So that's what I did.

And, you know, he helped me a lot in those coming days. The following year our first summer after review, things slowed down dramatically. I really didn't understand the seasonal patterns of business, and summertime gets really slow and our restaurants.

So I called him. I said, "What can I do?"

He said, "Well, why don't you give away" -- I mean, people come at 7:30 and 8:00 but they wouldn't come at 5:30, 6:00. He said, "Why don't you give them a free appetizer if they come early."

So we started doing that, and we definitely got a response from it. And that was the genesis of our now famous, really evening special menu --

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Yeah.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: -- which is a way of, you know, boosting business in the early part of the evening and making new friends.

And I can honestly say we wouldn't be here today without it, because it's kept us alive, during the lean times, which you'll always have.

But the real -- I think the biggest personal transformation that I underwent opening Brigtsen's Restaurant was learning to be a businessperson, because I didn't know anything. And that was the hardest, hardest thing. Because, you know, a lot of people that come into my profession want to be chefs and have their own restaurant one day, not realizing how big the difference is between being a chef and being an owner chef.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Uh-huh.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: It's definitely two jobs, and they're both huge. And being an owner was really hard to learn. I mean, number one, you're dealing with people -- salespeople, insurance people, City Hall -- all kind of things. And so my whole day, I didn't have time to cook. I had to do all this other stuff that I didn't like.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Yeah.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And I couldn't wait for 5:30, so the phone would stop ringing and the door would stop knocking, and all I could do was cook. They couldn't get me. And -- and it was a real, real struggle to -- to get comfortable with that. But ultimately, I did.

And today I enjoy that part of it as much as I do the food, because it's a challenge. And it's -- when it works, it really feels good. I mean, you get a sense of gratification. I mean, there's 20 people that make their livelihood here, and Marna and I care a lot about all those 20 people, and we just want to keep it going for them. And the people that teat with us, of course.

But, you know, it's -- we're just a mom and pop place, really, and it's a family business. We're all in it together. And, you know, one of the most gratifying things is being successful. I mean, it's the American dream. To work for yourself is the greatest thing in the world, in my opinion, because you -- you -- you bear the responsibilities, but you also get the reward of freedom in a big sense because you call the shots. And when it works, it's really, really gratifying.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: And really hard.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Yeah. Oh, yeah, very hard. Never gets any easier.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: You probably work harder for yourself than you would -- you're at it constantly.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Yeah. You know, when we opened, a lot of people in the neighborhood asked if we were going to be open for lunch, for instance. And I said no. Oh, so disappointed. But, you know, as I told Marna, I said, you know, "Look, here's our dream schedule. Let's do dinner five nights a week." At K-Paul's we were open Monday through Friday and off Saturdays and Sundays. But I didn't want to miss Saturday nights. So we open Tuesday through Saturday; we close Sunday and Monday. And I said, "Let's try this. If it doesn't work, we'll change." But we've managed to keep that same schedule all this time and --

But that said, I mean, my neighbors say, "Marna, why is Frank going to work at 11:00 in the morning?" I don't open till 5:00 at night.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Right.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: But, you know, a restaurant is not a retail shop. There's a lot that goes into it. And -- and my day starts at 8:30 or 9:00 in the morning and ends at midnight or 1:00 that night.

And to me, as an owner chef, Tuesday through Saturday is just one big day; it's just one continual. Because you never stop thinking about it. And the first thing I do in the morning is work, and the last thing I do at night is work. And, you know, you find your own time between, but that's just the price you pay. And it's well worth it to me.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: And you have your -- I assume, your seafood people, crabbers, whatever, come here with their wares, or do you have to go to --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: No, I don't really have to go get much. We've developed relationships over the years that work. I mean, I still have a rule that I won't buy tomatoes over the phone. I go buy my own tomatoes at Dewit's (sp) fruit stand. But you develop relationships.

And, you know, that's a big part of the restaurant business is buying. Purchasing is so crucial, and I still do it all myself.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh, you do?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And the reason for that is because I want control, internal control; and also, I want people to understand that it's me they're dealing with.

And, you know, you develop -- I have developed certain philosophies about that part of the business over the years that are probably a little -- go a little bit against the grain, but they sure work for me.

I mean, for instance, I'm not -- with seafood, for instance, it's a perfect example, you know, it's -- in New Orleans, we're blessed with an abundance of seafood, more so than most other places; and therefore, it's a very competitive business. There's a lot of seafood companies in town, a lot of good ones.

And, you know, from an economic standpoint, it would make sense to get up in the morning and call several of them and find out who's got the best price on what you're looking for. But I don't do that. I've developed a relationship with one main seafood wholesaler who understands what I want, and I stick with him; and they stick with me.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: They must be the ones responsible for those huge softshell crabs you have in here.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, that's another person.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh, okay.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: But it's the same type of arrangement.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: I've never seen them that big.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: You know, my philosophy is that loyalty's a two-way street, and you have to develop trust and understanding. And I don't nickel-and-dime my purveyors. I just don't do that. I mean, I shop price, yes, but that's not the most important thing to me. The most important thing is quality and service. Those things are more important than 10 cents here or 10 cents there, you know.

For instance, I -- you know, I'm friendly with other seafood people in town, and they'll occasionally come in and say, "Okay. We want to do some business with you." And I explain this philosophy to them.

And I say, okay. You've got a customer calls up and wants a hundred pounds of Red Snapper. You've got a hundred pounds in the cooler. It's been there three days. It's still in good shape, but it's, you know, been there three days. Another customer calls up and says, "I want a hundred pounds of Red Snapper," and you've got some just coming in the door.

Now, the first customer nickels-and-dimes you all the time. You know, I'll give you -- "$4.00. Can you give it to me for 3.50 or" -- and he's a little slow paying his bills, and he's kind of a pain. The other customer is me. I pay my bills on time. I'm easy to deal with. I'm loyal. I don't nickel-and-dime you. Just give me the best stuff and give it to me when I need it. Good quality. Good service. Who's going to get the best fish? I am.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Yeah.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And so that's the way I do things. You know, and maybe I'm not the best businessman in the world. Maybe I'm not making as much profit as I should. But it's -- it's a lifestyle decision too.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Yeah.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Because it's my personality. You know, just give me the good stuff at the best price you can. And, you know, and be there when I need you. And they are. I mean, I call these people at 4:00 o'clock and they'll bring me fish.

And so those are the -- you know, it's just philosophical things like that, ways of doing business, that -- that I've developed over the years, and I'm comfortable with them. If something's not right, we don't serve it.

You know, we change the menu daily, and that's one of the reasons we do. Over the years, a lot of things have become staples in our menu. And the menu doesn't change that much every day, but we do have tremendous freedom and flexibility. If something's not right, I'll change the menu at 5:00 o'clock and reprint it. That's all I've got to do, so...

And then you got other -- you know, other people that I deal with, you know. The shrimp guy brings me shrimp every day. He goes down to Grand Isle, picks up shrimp, then comes back into the city and sells them. And that's what he does, shrimp. And we get fresh shrimp almost year round.

And he also does softshells for us. And softshells, we really need a good friend to get good softshells. And Mr. Roy, the shrimp guy, provides us with that. And, you know, it's a commodity that's a gift from God. Softshells don't come out of the factory.

And he has to develop a relationship with somebody that does softshells to begin with, and then he determines who's going to get the best ones. And so again, with Roy, I don't nickel-and-dime him. I don't give him a lot of grief. Just give me the best stuff when I need it. And he's always treated me fair, and we get the biggest, prettiest softshells in New Orleans, without a doubt.

Roy tells me that when he has them on the truck, he has to hide them. Because other restaurants see them and say, "I want those." "No, those are for Mr. Frank." So that's -- that's the way I do business.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: They're certainly the biggest ones. And tender --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Yes.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: -- for that size. They don't have that kind of a leathery shell.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Papery shell. You see, that's -- he understands what I want.

And they -- softshells, each one has to be perfect. No paper shells. They have to have both claws and most of their legs and preferably still be kicking, which they usually are.

MAN INTERVIEWER: What other -- well, I asked that question. Never mind.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Vegetables --

MAN INTERVIEWER: Because I equate -- I mean, to me, your duck is the best duck that I get.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Well, thank you. It's something we're known for. It's something we do every day, and it's something I learned from Paul.

Duck is an interesting thing because -- well, it's extremely labor-intensive; and the way we do it, anyway, it is. In America, in the later part of the 20th Century, it became fashionable to have grilled duck breasts.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Oh, yeah.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: You know, grilled, medium rare, usually, medium. And that's fine. But it's not the way I like duck. I love it the old-fashioned way. I really love roasting meats. And fish too, but meats especially. And I like natural gravies. That's my favorite sauce.

So we do it the way Paul taught us, which is to season them. We stuff them with onions and fresh rosemary, and we slow-roast them for five hours. Now, in the early days, in fact, the first 12 years of Brigtsen's, we only had two ovens. We could only get six ducks in each oven, plus all the other stuff we're cooking: Desserts everything else.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Yeah.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: So it's always been a real chore in our kitchen. We now three ovens, so we're expanding.

And then once the ducks are one, we take them out and cut them in half and debone them. And the whole process is basically to solve two problems. There's two things people don't like about duck: Bones and fat.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Uh-huh.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And the process and the technique that we use is designed to remove both of those issues, so that you get tender, crispy duck. And that's what we do.

And, you know, some people don't like it. Some people, you know, it's too try or, you know, I want it medium rare. Well, this is the way we do it. And -- and most people love it.

And the great thing about duck is that we use Maple Leaf Farms duck from the Midwest, and it's always perfect. It's the one product that I never have to worry about. It's uniform, it's consistent, and the price has been the same for years and years and years, and they just do a good job with it. And it's a way of making people happy, and it's something we do.

And over the years, I changed the accompaniments. We've been serving it with cornbread dressing and honey-pecan gravy for many years. And, you know, we see it every day, and occasionally get the urge to change it. And whenever I do, I hear about it.

Gosh. One year at Jazz Fest, I changed the sauce, and boy, this guy's heart was broken. He had come -- you know, comes every year to Jazz Fast.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Sure.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And, oh, my God. I felt so bad. Oh, I felt so bad.

So, I mean, that's a lesson I learned early on, you know? I'm not cooking for me, I'm cooking for our guests. And that's why certain dishes have become staples on the menus, because people want them. Some people want the same thing all the time, and some people want the new thing all the time. So we offer both.

MAN INTERVIEWER: I think we talked about how you're a combination of -- or you have the responsibility of a neighborhood restaurant, in a way, to have those same things, same way, because people want them. But then you have so many people who come on a continual basis that who still like that variety. Plus, you're coming at it from an art standpoint, so you want to create --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Right. Well, I think it really goes back to the very basics, the roots of what is a restaurant. "Restaurant" comes from the word that means "to restore." And the first restaurants, to my knowledge, were sort of a refuge where you can go in and get a hot bowl of soup. And, well, what does that mean exactly, or what need does it feel in people's lives? You know, they can eat at home. Why do they go out to eat?

And when you think about that, when I think about that, it helps me understand what things we should have or offer to people to encourage them to come see us. And that's one of those things, you know. Nobody's going to make roast duck and cook it for five hours at home. We have that. We've got it for you.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Boned.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Yeah, exactly. We do the work. And, you know, those kinds of things are very basic, and it helps me understand our -- our role.

I mean, for example, on 911, me, myself, like every American, questioned the worth of my own life. What am I doing that's so important? I'm a -- I'm a chef. What does that do? I'm cooking for people for a living. It seems so frivolous and worthless and trivial to me. I should be doing something constructive, something more meaningful. I really questioned everything that I do, whether my life was a waste or not. And I felt that way for weeks.

And then I realized exactly what my role is, and that's to make people happy, to give people a couple of hours away from their day-to-day lives, where they have happiness. That's what I do. I create a little window of happiness for people.

And, then, in thinking about that, I realized, man, that's as important as anything else you could do with your life. If you can share a little bit of joy with people and brighten up their lives for that little bit of time, that's worthwhile. And that's why I do it.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: You make a wonderful place for those 20 employees to come every day.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: That's right. I mean, I could -- after having done this for all these years, you know how many days I say, well, I have to do something else, and I've had offers to do other things. You know, I may be ready to move on to something else, but I'm not putting these 20 people out on the street.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Yeah.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: If I ever did decide to walk away from Brigtsen's, I would find a way to keep it going for them.

MAN INTERVIEWER: Have they been with you a long time, most of them?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Many of them have, yeah.

Paul and Kay Prudhomme, when we opened, were generous not only with their -- their finance, financial help, spiritual support, they also gave me staff to help me open. Rhonda, Marna's sister, was working at K-Paul's, and she came with me to be my manager.

And Paul said, "You can take anybody from the kitchen that you want." And I took a guy named Steve Vangelder from New York, who we call Yankee. Because, quite frankly, he's a working dog. The man's amazing at the production that he can do. And that's what I knew I needed. I need somebody that could run that kitchen and get involved in the business. So that was enough to build a core around.

And then after a few days of being opened -- I think we were open a couple of days, and Sandy stayed at K-Paul's, because that's Kay's first waitress, you know. And Sandy told Kay, "You know what? I need to be with my sisters." So she came too. And -- so they've been with us since day one, obviously.

And in terms of longevity -- well, Marna -- Marna had never worked in a restaurant before in her life.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Really?

MAN INTERVIEWER: Ever. She was a court reporter.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: She was?

CHEF BRIGTSEN: A stenographer. And I appointed her {"check}mat take Dee.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: And she's totally delightful.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Oh, she -- thank you. She was so nervous that first night. I mean, just scared. She'd never done it before. She never even practiced. You know, she didn't go work in a restaurant and follow someone around and see how it's done, she just did it, bless her heart. And of course, she's the best and a big reason people come to Brigtsen's.

And then, you know, I mean, the most important position in our kitchen is sous chef, which is, you know, second under me and really the chef that runs the kitchen in a day-to-day sense. And in 17 years, we've had five.

And in terms of longevity, I think Chris Newton would be the longest. He started here -- his brother was working here when we opened, and he started as a dishwasher about 16 years ago. And he does all our desserts. He's the man about town during the daytime. I mean, he does the receiving, and he makes the dessert and stuff, the general prep, and fills in dishwashing if we need it.

You know, so he found a place. He found home. You know, nobody would give him a chance, and we did and I think that's {"check}helpful for me.

You know, Paul taught me lessons about people. I remember one time at K-Paul's we had a dishwasher, just wasn't working out. He was got-darned slow and couldn't keep up with our pace and didn't understand things so well. And I went to Paul and complained about him. "We've got to get rid of this guy."

And he -- he said, "Calm down." He said, "You know, I understand your situation. I understand this guy." He says, "You know, what you have to understand, Frank, is that if -- we're not all equal. If someone is giving 100 percent, if they're doing the best that they can do, you can't fire them. They may not be competent, they may not, you know, be the most talented, but he's doing the best he possibly can. And so we kept the guy and we became good friends, and I learned to respect that.

You know, things -- you know, being the boss and an employer, you have to understand that. You know, it was really hard for me, for instance, to step away from the stove and let someone else cook because I was doing it all myself. And I knew from my experience at K-Paul's, when the staff grew, that you could give a recipe to ten different people, and you're going to get ten different renditions. Cooking is not exact science. You know, people's personality enters into it, and you have to allow for that.

That was difficult transition for me in the beginning. But you kind of have to open the door for people and let them walk through on their two feet. And I learned a valuable lesson. But in terms of --

(Changing tape)

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Another tape.

That's awful generous of Paul to feel that way about employees. They're not worth --

CHEF BRIGTSEN: Whenever they fit the mold.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Yeah, and if they show giving up quickly and cleanly enough.

CHEF BRIGTSEN: You know, as a teacher, it's the same way.

WOMAN INTERVIEWER: Well, it's true. Yeah, when you have a student who's -- may not be the brightest one, they're doing the best they can, you do respect that. Instead of kids who are screwing off and not doing near what they could and make you angry.

(tape is now in again)

CHEF BRIGTSEN: And I think one of the -- you know, we've only had two bartenders in our 17 years. And Rob Weiss, who's with us now, has been here a hundred years, and he knew the Hanson sisters, Sandy and Marna and Rhonda, back when they lived in San Francisco, and they -- they've been friends for 30 years. And we found a way, really, to -- we had a spot and we found a way entice them to come join us, and one of the best things we've ever done.

You know, over the years, I've looked at other options like expanding, getting bigger, opening other restaurants; and really the thing that -- that stopped it is the people equation, that part of the equation. Because we take everything so personally here. You know, trying to find someone to plug into a position is not our style. It's more about finding people and then finding a place to put them.

And we have our -- I guess we're in our own little cocoon here, and once you step out of it, you want to get back in it. So we've been very blessed in that regard. And, you know, I mean, some of our wait staff has been here many, many, many years, and we're so close.

And our sous chef now, Larry Herbert, I can't say enough about Larry. He's -- like me, he's a home-grown boy with no formal culinary education, just found himself in a restaurant one way trying to make a living.

And Larry is the best natural cook that I've ever worked with, period. And I've worked with Paul Prudhomme. And, I mean, he is incredible. He's -- he's a good man too. His food is impeccable. He's a better line cook than I mean. His food is always perfect. I never have to worry about it. And if Larry's in the kitchen, it gives me a tremendous amount of freedom to do other things. So he's been a blessing.

And he came in and, like everyone, started at the bottom rung of our ladder, which is -- you know, you work desserts and then you work salads and then you expedite, and then you get a shot at the stove if you're good enough. And.

(Tape ended here.)

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