: Dean/Mosely/Morgan etc.
Subj: RE: Dean/Mosely/Morgan etc.
Date: 97-12-27 22:55:03 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty')
Hi, Betty and Ray!
Just got home from a little after-holiday gathering at some friends' house. As this Holiday season ebbs away, I should start having a lot more time to work on this obsession otherwise known as genealogy!
Yes, I have Word 6.0, so I should be able to receive it fine. Thank-you *very* much for your offer to share information.
What line(s) are you descended from? I would be happy to share anything with you that I might have that would be of interest.
I am descended from the Deans from Mary Ann Dean Coker, and her paternal ancestry: Robert Dean, Jesse Dean Jr., Jesse Dean Sr., James Dean. This is on my paternal grandmother's side. Then, I have another Dean line (actually, another branch of the same line) on my paternal grandfather's side: Sarah Ann Dean Cott, daughter of Jesse Dean Sr. Also, I actually have the possibility of a *third* Dean line, on another branch of my paternal grandfather's side, but if so, I think it is an unrelated branch as it is from Maryland.
I do not have a Mosely line, although there are many marriages into the family.
Thanks!
JCC
P.S. Do you use Family Tree Maker? I have FTM 3.0, and would be happy to share a GEDCOM as well.
----------
From: AquaBetty[SMTP:AquaBetty@]
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 1997 10:10 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: Morgan search
John,
Thanks for replying to our cries for help in the night. We have some Dean data to share. Can you use a document composed in MS Word 6.0 attached to e-mail? We have a combined Dean/Mosley family history (still very much in process!) with index, about 64 pages. If you can use it, let us know.
Betty and Ray Terry
Subj: RE: Morgan search
Date: 97-12-27 17:08:19 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Betty. John Carter here.
I've been meaning to get in touch with you, after receiving a message from Lynn about our connections with you. It seems you are descended from many of the same lines as myself, too, and I am eager to discuss them with you. However, I have been extremely busy the last few days, and am hoping to get caught up from all the Holiday rush soon. I hope to get a lot done tomorrow.
Briefly, I am also descended from Robert Dean and Catherine Morgan Dean, but am afraid I do not have anything more on her parents than what you listed. I'm assuming you already discussed this with Lynn? Her knowledge of the Morgans is far more extensive than mine.
I'm quite eager to discuss the Cokers with you as well. I have been preparing a paper on them to submit to the group. (Also, the other day, I just sent off my latest supplemental membership papers for the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War, based on co-lateral descent from Daniel Coker). (ca. 1841-1898). I am a great-grandson of John Clayton Coker and Phebe Carney Coker (later Reed).
At any rate, I hope to be in touch with you again as soon as possible!
Take care,
JCC
----------
From: AquaBetty[SMTP:AquaBetty@]
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 1997 12:24 AM
To: sstreet@; JACKLYN001@; bugs@; spiff@;
Subject: Fwd: Morgan search
Michele suggested that we query the group about Catharine Morgan Dean.
Anybody have any data about Catharine, her father John, and mother?
Betty Terry
----------
From: AquaBetty[SMTP:AquaBetty@]
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 1997 8:27 PM
To: MPierce96@
Subject: Morgan search
Hi Michele,
We've had a great time corresponding with Lynn Jackson after you forwarded my earlier inquiry to you, to her.
Would you look in your data to see if you have info about one of my lines?
We are looking for the ancestors of Catharine Morgan (1833-1894) of Kent Co., DE who married Robert Dean (1830-1874), also of Kent County. Both are buried at Manship Cemetery, Rts 42 & 13, near Cheswold.
C.A. Weslager's 1980 notes about his Delaware visits in the early 1940's mention interviews he had with Catharine & Robert Dean's daughter, Annie E. Dean Mosley and grandson, G. A. Mosley (Annie is my great-grandmother). One of them said that Catharine's father was John Morgan but John's wife was not named.
Do you have any further information about the parents of Catharine?
Merry Christmas,
Betty Davis Terry
Subj: RE: Cotts
Date: 97-12-28 10:53:25 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty')
Hi, Betty.
Thanks very much again for the shared info. I received both files OK. Have glanced at the Cott info, and will look at the Dean/Mosely one soon.
As for the Cott info, I can't recall immediately if I know Karen Mosely or not (seems like I've heard the name from either Lynn or Debbie, in our group), but I can tell you that all of the info she shared with you seems to be from me, originally.
I can see that I need to hurry up and get "all my ducks in a row," and pass along to you as much info as I have, so we don't "re-research" the same items.
Back about 1976, I believe (I'm 39 and have been doing genealogy for about 24 years now--and have been corresponding with Lynn for all of those 24 years), I traced the Cott family to Michigan, got in touch with the best friend of the last Cott family member from that branch (who'd just passed away the year before) and this best friend gave me the Cott family Bible and all of the family photos, including some tin-types. All are still in my possession. I have shared the information therein with so many that now I see it's making its way around the genealogy circle. This is good, but I can offer to you to send you "fresh," clearer copies if you'd like. The Bible is now about 180 years old, if I remember correctly (it's in a fire-proof safe in the other room).
As for the obituaries, I have clearer copies of those as well.
Yes, there is a mystery with the notations of John Cott and Sarah Carney. Somewhere, I have some thoughts about that typed out, I believe, and will have to retrieve it.
I am so far behind in all that I need to do, and doubt I can get all caught up today. However, I have a 4-day weekend this coming week, and hope to get more done then, too.
For now, I'll keep all of this in mind, and hope to share some stuff with you ASAP.
Thanks again for all your help, and I'm eager to compare more notes with you!
JCC
----------
From: AquaBetty[SMTP:AquaBetty@]
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 1997 2:10 AM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: Dean/Mosely/Morgan etc.
John,
Attached is another piece of information we came across in Cheswold. Karen Mosley allowed us to xerox obits of John Cott and Lydia Cott. The retyped versions are attached. BUT: there is a problem in the Bible record where John W. Cott is said to have married Sarah Carney. If you compare the Bible record with the obits you will see the problem.
Betty
Subj: Good News for Chinese Genealogists!
Date: 97-12-28 11:30:44 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
In today's "Money & Business" section of the St. Petersburg Times comes the notation that Pepsi's ad slogan "Pepsi Comes Alive," was originally translated by the company into Chinese as "Pepsi brings your ancestors back from the grave."
I could name a couple of Pepsi Generations that I'd love to share a six-pack with!
JCC
Subj: FW: DelMarVa Surname Collection Project
Date: 97-12-28 12:36:41 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
For your info.
JCC
----------
From: Mark L. Raulin[SMTP:mraulin@]
Sent: Friday, December 26, 1997 10:10 AM
To: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L
Subject: [LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L] DelMarVa Surname Collection Project
For those who haven't already participated:
I have volunteered to compile a listing of surnames and e-mail addresses for persons researching Eastern Shore families. This list will be published in the Dorchester County Genealogical Society newsletter in March 1998 and will be made available to those with
access to the Internet. In addition, all those who provide information willl also be sent a copy of the final listing via e-mail.
If you're interested in participating, please send the following information to the following e-mail address (don't reply to this one): dcgs_surname@
Your name
Your e-mail address
Your mailing address (optional)
Surname
*** all surnames will be posted with DelMarVa as the location
Thanks, SUBMITTED OUR NAMES C. 12/28/97
Mark Raulin
From: "John C. Carter"
From: AquaBetty[SMTP:AquaBetty@]
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 1997 11:52 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: Dean/Mosely/Morgan etc.
John,
Attached is a file containing more Dean descendants than the last one. We have more to input but are busy now trying to extract from deeds and plot the Dean and Mosley farms to USGS topo maps.
We are throwing everything into the pot at this point, hence the references in the Table of Contents to the many and varied articles and papers. A lot of this info is old hat to the group but new to us.
B&R Terry SENT DEANLESS.DOC (JAMEDEAN.DOC MINUS ARTICLES)
Subj: RE: Deans!
Date: 97-12-30 22:53:03 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty')
CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)')
Hi, Betty & Ray.
I've just given my first look at both of your documents, the 64-page one and the 90-page (!!) one, and my first impression can be summed up by three words: Oh. My. God!
I must congratulate you on a job very well done! What a tremendous amount of work you must have put into this.
The biggest shock of all came right after I opened the first document: and discovered the photos of Robert Dean and Catherine Morgan Dean!!! I had never known photos existed of them before! This alone was a matter of great excitement for me. Where did you obtain them? Were they passed down through your family line? Last year, I obtained the first (and, up till now, the only) photo of a great-great-great-grandparent of mine (Joel Durham). Now, with just a click of the mouse, I suddenly can look at the faces of two more great-great-great-grandparents!
Years ago, when I first met Lynn after corresponding with her for many years, she showed me a large beautiful photo of Mary Ann Dean Coker, which I was able to copy with my camera. I never dreamed that one day I would get to see photos of Mary Ann's parents.
I'm also very excited about your work-in-progress. Most of us dream about getting all our data organized into some form of book at one time or another, but rarely is the goal ever achieved. I'm glad to see you are doing a fine job.
I will be very happy to share with you any data that I may have.
I think I mentioned in my earlier e-mail, that I could send you fresher, clearer copies of the Cott family Bible pages, if you'd like. Just let me know your address, and I will get them sent off to you.
I also received your more-recent e-mail message, asking for info on my branch of the family under John Clayton Coker. I warn you, this includes over 100 people, according to my Family Tree Maker, and my compilation is not even complete when looking at the most recent generations. How would you like the information sent? I'm not sure how long it would take me to place the info into the same format you use in your document. Would a GEDCOM be sufficient? If so, would you like a GEDCOM of my entire tree (i.e. my father's side--I keep my mother's side in a separate file), or just of the section under John Clayton Coker? (If you just want the section, I'll have to play around with the program to see if I can separate it). Also, I can send the GEDCOM to you via e-mail, or through "snail mail" on a disc.
I'll need to take more time to look over your document in more detail. One thing I happened to notice while browsing through: I never realized that Mary Ann's husband Moses Coker's middle name was Elwood. I knew he had a son named Moses Elwood, but did not know that Moses Sr. used this middle name as well. Where did you find this info?
I just entered the basic data of your direct ancestral line (back to Annie Dean Mosely) info my FTM, and it indicates that you and I are:
1. 3rd cousins once removed.
2. 5th cousins.
3. 7th cousins twice removed.
I'm very pleased to make your acquaintance! Thanks again for sharing your info, and we'll definitely have to stay in touch!
Take care,
John
P.S. Don't forget to send your address, if you'd like me to send the copies of the Bible pages or anything.
Subj: Re: Deans!
Date: 12/31/97
To: spiff@
John,
Thanks for the kind remarks.
To answer your questions:
1. Robert and Catharine Morgan Dean's pictures are/were owned by Annie Dean Mosley, passed on to daughter Beulah Mosley Smith, then to Beulah's daughter Lorraine Smith Bass, Lamont, PA. Years ago Betty visited Beulah and copied the large framed pictures with a flash camera as they hung on the wall of Beulah's home. She would not permit them to be removed from the glass, so the pictures were taken at an angle to avoid flash reflections. So the couple are a bit distorted in the pictures we have. With Corel Photo Paint we could adjust the distortion and came up with what Betty thinks is close to the originals. Lorraine Bass had a fire in her house about 10 years ago and believes all the pictures were lost. However, during our visit she apparently liked us and asked her husband to check the basement to see if there were any left. He found a large, framed picture of Charles Henry Mosley, Annie Dean's husband, which she then very generously gave to Betty. Beulah and Lorraine married into the African American community and expressed to us that they felt rejected by the Moorish community. This may have been why she "found" CH Mosley's picture only after meeting with and liking us. There may be more originals there.
2. We are interested in obtaining as many photos as possible for inclusion in the family histories we are compiling. There were not many in the file sent to you because of the time required to upload from MSW 6.0 to AOL--the long one sent to you took 25 minutes to upload. If you have a copy of Mary Ann Dean Coker, we'd love to have one. Of course, if we ever visit Lynn, we could get one there too.
3. Going through my sources of information, I can find no basis for Moses "Elwood" Coker, husband of Mary Ann. Probably had a confused moment and gave the son's name to the father. The sources we checked on that were the court files and the marker at Manship church.
4. Please do send clearer copies of the Cott Bible. Our Xerox of a Xerox barely shows the first entries on the birth page (which is the only one we have). The obits were also a bit blurry.
5. Please e-mail a GEDCOM file of your father's side. Betty has a couple of Carter branches, so we might find a tie-in as well as expand the descendancy chart. And include your notes, please.
6. Address is the same as on the first page of the James Dean document:
Betty D. Terry
11505 Montgomery Rd.
Beltsville, MD 20705
Happy New Year!
Betty and Ray Terry
Subj: William Carney
Date: 98-01-07 22:48:28 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Betty & Ray.
I'm wondering what you can tell me about William Carney, Catherine Morgan Dean's 2nd husband?
My notes show that she married him prior to 1877. Your document lists a source for their marriage date, but I could find no date listed other than "after Robert's death," which was of course 30 Sep 1874.
The reason I'm wondering, is that I've been working with some Civil War papers (military records, pension records, etc), and one of the sets I have is for a William Carney. At first I wondered if it might be the same person, but of course William Carney is a "common" name for the area, and this could just be wild conjecture.
Here's what I know about William Carney the Civil War veteran:
1. On a declaration for pension dated 17 Dec 1886 he gave his age as 50. This would make him born ca. 1836. A similar document dated 30 July 1890 listed him as age 55. This would make him born ca. 1835.
2. On 27 Feb 1864, he enrolled in Company F of the 32nd U.S. Colored Troops, and was mustered out on 22 Aug 1865. PROB BURIED FORK BRANCH
3. He was of Kent County, DE, and several familiar names signed affadavits vouching for him during his pension process, including:
Isaac Mosely
Tilghman Ridgway
Daniel Coker
4. On a pension document dated 04 Jun 1898, he stated that his wife was deceased, and that his marriage date had been 1858. He also listed the following living children:
Morris, b. 16 Oct 1860.
James, b. 26 Dec 1861.
Georganna, b. 18 Mar 1867.
Mary J., b. 23 Oct 1880.
5. On his pension-drop form, it lists his death as 12 Jan 1907.
Actually, now that I've listed all that out, it seems obvious that this is not the same William Carney, if he was only married once, in 1858. Anyway, I'll still send this to you, to see if you have any notes that might connect the two.
Thanks very much for your help and/or any suggestions!
JCC
P.S. Do you have much information on other Carneys? If so, I have a couple of other questions I might ask of you, if it's OK.
SENT 1) CARNEY.DOC (misc info re William A. Carney)
2) CARNEY1.DOC descendancy chart Robert Carney b 1814
3) CARNEY2.DOC descendancy chart James Carney b 1824
Subj: RE: William Carney
Date: 98-01-08 21:03:57 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty')
Hi, Betty & Ray.
Thanks for the info.
Yes, I was aware of the stone at Fork Branch. That is actually how I became aware of that (Civil War vet) William in the first place. I found the stone, ordered the records, and then figured out his connection to the family. This William turned out to be the great-great-grandfather of Raymond "Flicker" Ridgeway Jr, husband of Rose Marie "Sweetsie" Munson Ridgeway of the Bridgeton Indian center.
It seems safe to assume, from the info you compiled, the following:
1. Under your note from the 1870 census, you have "may be Catherine Morgan Dean's 2nd husband's family" ascribed to the William Carney aged 37 and married to Sarah. I don't think this is the case, since I think this is the William who was the Civil War vet. The names of the children James H. and Georgianna match up. (The middle initial "H" also matches up with another page in the Civil War records, which I omitted in my message last night). Also, since the Civil War vet William stated in 1898 that his wife was deceased, and we know Catherine was still living, and had been married since 1875.
This is good info, as it gives me the name Sarah to make note of.
2. It then would seem to indicate that the William aged 45 in the 1870 census and married to Melvina would most likely be Catherine's future 2nd husband.
It is curious about Nehemiah Durham living with this family in 1870. At first I wondered if he was a nephew, with perhaps a mother named Carney, but then realized his mother is apparently the Mahala Songo that Debbie was recently swinging from the chandelier about. Perhaps he was a younger brother of Melvina, or somehow else related to Melvina by his father's side. Of course, all this is all mere conjecture. Did the 1870 census list a relationship?
Thanks again!
JCC
P.S. In regard to the stones at Fork Branch, someone told me that "long ago" there used to be a "whole row" of Civil War veteran tombstones, and on holidays you would see all the flags next to each stone. Now, the only one left in that row seems to be William's, and it's virtually unreadable. I had also heard about the ones "tossed off into the woods." What a shame....
----------
From: AquaBetty[SMTP:AquaBetty@]
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 1998 12:48 AM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: William Carney
John,
We've not attempted to follow up on William A. Carney.
The attached is data in our files where his name is mentioned. Nothing new.
I will attach descendancy charts of 2 Carneys, b 1814 and b 1824, which were
in the GEDCOM file you sent to us, hoping it would be helpful to you to see
them in this form. If you don't need this type of information from your
files, please tell us.
B&R
Subj: RE: Civil War Veterans
Date: 98-01-09 07:09:15 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: 74547.41@ (74547.41@), AquaBetty@
Hi, Ray:
Here are names from the mixed-blood community of which I know served in the Civil War. (I know of these because they are ones who are connected to my lines, so there are undoubltably more than merely these):
1. Cornelius Ridgeway Co. C, 8th PA Colored Infantry
2. Alfred Ridgeway (brother Co. C, 8th PA Colored Infantry
of Cornelius)
3. Daniel Coker (brother of Co. C, 25th PA Colored Infantry
Moses)
4. William Carney Co. F, 32nd PA Colored Infantry
5. Isaiah "Zaddock" Muntz Co. E, 30th MD Colored Infantry
I have military and/or pension records of all of the above.
For the record, the widow of Alfred Ridgeway ended up becoming the wife of Daniel Coker, and even their first child was named Alfred Wilbank Ridgeway Coker in honor of her first husband. She ended up becoming a widow of Daniel as well, so her name (Sarah Ridgeway Ridgeway Coker, daughter of Tilghman Ridgeway, and second-cousin to Alfred before she married him) shows up in the pension files of both veterans.
Thanks!
JCC
----------
From: Ned Heite[SMTP:eheite@]
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 1997 9:41 PM
To: bugs@; spiff@; 74547.41@; belle25@;
Subject: Re: Robert Carney
John
I think that the Robert who owned the property next door to the William Morris Carney property must be younger than the person you mention.
Robert Carney of McKee Road bought his first 5 acres in 1884 and built his house, hardly a level activity one expects of a 70-year-old man. His heir was Walter H. Carney, who succeeded to the property in 1926; Walter's widow died in 1972. Their descendants, who sold the land in 1973, were living in Bridgeton and Monroeville, New Jersey.
Ned Heite, P O Box 53 Camden, Delaware 19934
Icelandic wool catalogue:
Archaeological tinsmithing:
----------
From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 1997 7:13 PM
To: 'Debbie Unger'; 'MayBelle & Sandy Bordley'; 'Floyd Handsor'; 'cblume6@'; 'Ned Heite'; 'Lynn Jackson'; 'Jan Jackson'; 'lheite@eldhorn.is'; 'Michele Pierce'
Subject: Robert Carney
Hello. While composing my last message regarding William Morris "Mike" Carney's house, I was referencing Ned & Cara's McKee Road report, and noticed that it mentions in several places that one of the neighbors of Mike & Sallie's property was Robert Carney.
If my assumption is correct, this would be the same Robert Carney who was born ca. 1815 and married to Phoebe/Phebe _____. This Robert is my great-great-great-grandfather, and my records show that he & Phebe were the parents of James Perry Carney (my ancestor), Margaret Carney, and Burton Carney, possibly others:
1. James Perry (1847-1934) m. Harriett Durham, daughter of Joel Durham and Margaret Munce/Muntz (in turn, the daughter of Robert Munce Sr).
2. Margaret Carney m. Joseph Mosely.
3. Burton Carney m. Amanda ______
The reason I suspect that this is the same Robert Carney, is that he was also an UNCLE of Mike Carney, according to what I've been told. I do not have the name of Mike's father, but was told that he was a brother of Robert. Do any of you have any more information on what the name of Mike's father (and mother) was, or what Phebe's maiden name was? This is something I have wondered about and searched for, for YEARS.
Addendum: Another brother of Robert Carney, (and thus of Mike's father) is supposedly James Carney (b. ca. 1824) who married Sally b. ca. 1827, and who were the parents of:
1. Sarah, b. 1836 (hmm, dates must be wrong--diff. in mother & daughter age is only 9 years).
2. Robert, b. 1843, married Mary Elmira Cott, dau. of John D. Cott.
3. Elizabeth, b. 1845.
Have also been trying to figure out how Shadrack/Shedrick "Shade" Carney fits in with these Carneys. Shade Carney (29 May 1870 - 06 Jun 1933) was m. to Minnie Durham, daughter of Benjamin & Sally Ann Handsor Durham. Shade was the son of Shary/Sherry (possibly Charles) Carney & Jane ____. This Jane is possibly Mary Jane Carty/Carter, and I've also been trying to figure out how she connects with the other Cartys/Carters.
Was Shary/Sherry Carney related to Robert Carney? Inquiring minds want to know!
Thanks VERY much, everyone!
JCC
Subj: RE: Carneys
Date: 98-01-10 13:53:59 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty')
Hi, Ray & Betty:
Thought I might send a couple of querying questions to you about Carneys, for you to keep in mind as you do research. If the documents you sent me contain most of what you now know on the Carneys, you may not have these answers yet, as these answers would be a little older than the info in the documents/GEDCOM.
1. Please see the separtely sent (to follow) message regarding Robert Carney (b. ca. 1815) (my great-great-great-grandfather).
2. Have you been able to connect your (our) ancestor Thomas Carney (father of Hester Ann Carney, b. ca. 1806, who married James Dean Jr) to the families of Robert Carney, Sr (b. ca. 1815), Shary Carney (father of Shadrach b. 1870), or either of the William Carneys (Civil War vet b. ca. 1836; or 2nd husb. of Catherine Morgan Dean b. 1833)?
Thanks very much again for your help!
JCC
----------
From: AquaBetty[SMTP:AquaBetty@]
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 1998 12:48 AM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: William Carney
John,
We've not attempted to follow up on William A. Carney.
The attached is data in our files where his name is mentioned. Nothing new.
I will attach descendancy charts of 2 Carneys, b 1814 and b 1824, which were in the GEDCOM file you sent to us, hoping it would be helpful to you to see them in this form. If you don't need this type of information from your files, please tell us.
B&R
ubj: Comments regarding Dean & Carney documents
Date: 98-01-10 12:06:42 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty')
Random comments regarding the Dean & Carney documents, etc.
Dean document:
1. You may wish to consider identifying "Manship" Cemetery as "Manship / Immanuel Union" Cemetery, since it is now known as Immanuel Union. Might assist researchers in future generations, reading your work.
2. Sadie (Sarah) J. Coker Washington's (daughter of Moses Coker and Mary Ann Dean Coker) husband's first name was indeed William, as Lynn's comments speculate.
3. On the title page of the Dean document, you have James Dean's death date as "1757" instead of "1787" as you list elsewhere.
Comments regarding Robert Carney (b. 1814) document:
1. You've listed the death date of Leroy Carter (#103), but not of Perry Carter (#104).
2. I failed to enter a "?" as the "surname" of Donald Lothair Carter's (#106) 2nd wife, therefore when you translated the file into the chart format, it capitalized SALLY as if it were a last name instead of a first name. Sally is also capitalized just below, in the record for their child, Patty, #207.
3. Under the children of Perry Walton Carter, (#104), you list the marriage dates of children Perry Daniel and Janet, but not the date of Kathleen, even though it was included in the GEDCOM.
I'm sure I may have missed a lot, and these are of couse minor things. I realize you are still "fine-tuning" your work, and you are doing an excellent job! How do you "translate" the GEDCOM stuff into completely-reworked documents so quickly??
Thanks again!
JCC
P.S. Do you wish to receive comments/corrections such as these, or are do you feel confident you are already capturing such things?
----------
Subj: RE: Pictures
Date: 98-01-10 09:42:01 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty')
Hi, Betty & Ray.
I was looking through this list again, and had a couple of questions/comments.
In the photo #23 below, I'm curious if this photo shows the group standing together, and if you look at the backdrop shade/curtain in the back, can you see fingers holding it up? If so, then I have the original of this photo. It was part of the whole package of photos that were given to me by the best friend of the last John W. Cott descendant in Michigan. I had made copies of the photos for the Indian Center in Bridgeton many years ago. There were also photos of Enoch Dean and Angelina Munce Dean in this batch. The original of Angelina Munce Dean was a tin-type, but I gave the tin-type to Harry Muncey many years ago, and kept a duplicated photo.
If you would like copies of any that I have, let me know. I will make a list soon, of all the older photos I have.
If possible, I would like to get copies of #2 and #3. However, would it be possible to get actual duplicated photos? I would be happy to pay any costs.
By the way, I am waiting for a duplicate to come back, of the photo of Mary Ann Dean Coker, and I will send it to you (along with the other stuff we talked about).
Also, if convenient, I would like a copy of your group photo, #25.
Thanks very much, and be sure to let me know if I can pay for any costs.
JCC
----------
From: AquaBetty[SMTP:AquaBetty@]
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 1998 11:42 AM
To: sstreet@; JACKLYN001@; bugs@; spiff@;
Subject: Pictures
To all,
We have pictures of the following people to share via e-mail.
Let us know which you would like to have & if you can handle .TIF files or
photos attached to MS Word 6.0 documents.
Would like to receive copies of photos of other members of these families.
1. Mahala Songo b abt 1822, dau Isaiah Songo, she m. William Durham b 1818
had ch Jessie, Angelica, Nehemiah, Sarah, James, William
2. Robert Dean 1830-1874, married Catharine Morgan
3. Catharine Morgan 1833-1894, married Robert Dean
4. Anna Elizabeth Carter 1866-1915, dau Geo T. Carter & Lina Mosley, wife
of Nehemiah Durham
5. Charles Henry Mosley 1861-1906,son Wingate & Nancy,husb Annie Dean
6. Anna Elizabeth Dean 1870-1963, dau Robert & Catharine, wife CH Mosley
7. Rheba Dean Mosley 1904-1938, dau CH Mosley & Anna Elizabeth Dean
8. Charles Milton Mosley 1892-1960 " husb of Mae Sammons
9. Clifton Mosley 1893-1918 " husb of Bertha Edna Sammons
10. Edith Pearl Mosley 1895-1973 " wife of W. Whiteman, J. Chapelle
11. Beulah Mosley 1896-1987 " wife of Joel Smith
12. Mary E. Mosley 1899-1978 " wife of William T. Reed
13. Bessie Alice Mosley 1888-1919 " 1st wife of Howard C. Wilson Sr
14. Mable Mosley 1898-1956 " 2nd wife Howard C. Wilson, Sr
15. Felix Mosley 1890-1937 " no spouse
16. Geoffrey (Garfield) A. Mosley 1885-1953 and family
17. Isaiah Return Durham, 1902-1987 son of Nehemiah & Anna Elizabeth Carter
husb of Gertrude Ridgeway and one of the couple.
18. Howard C. Wilson, Sr 1883-1950 son Solomon G. Wilson & Mary Augusta Carter, husb of Bessie Alice Mosley and Mabel Mosley
19. Mary Augusta Carter, wife of Solomon G. Wilson
20. Long Tall Lean Larry Dean (Faulkner) 1924-1985 son James Durham Faulkner and Theresa Dean, husb of 1) 2) Greer Simms (he was a Musician and radio broadcaster)
21. Theresa Dean 1893-1979 alone
22. Theresa Dean 1893-1979 dau Robert Burton Dean & Almira Wilson
4 generation group with her dau, gdau, ggdau
23. Robert Burton Dean family: himself, wife Almira (Wilson), ch Robert .
Bernard, Calvin, Gladys, Theresa, Elsie and individual shots of the children
24. Della Josephine Wilson 1905-? dau William Elwood Wilson & Josephine Horner, wife of Harry Macer
25. Raymond and Betty Terry family 1996: group photo
----------
From: AquaBetty[SMTP:AquaBetty@]
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 1998 12:20 AM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: Civil War Veterans
John,
I'll look these up at the Archives. If you are depending on NARA to send you copies of files, you may not be getting all the data in them. A lady on Staten Island contacted me about work I was doing which coincided with her interests. She had found a Civil War pension file which was interesting. I looked at the original and found many letters from family members which had not been copied by NARA. And, some of the copying was poor. I was able to make my own, better, copies. So, it won't hurt to look.
Ray
----------
From: AquaBetty[SMTP:AquaBetty@]
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 1998 11:01 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: 1/10/98 messages
John,
You really spit 'em out today!
1. Is the following Joel related to the Joel on the attached chart?
James Perry (1847-1934) m. Harriett Durham, daughter of Joel Durham and
Margaret Munce/Muntz (in turn, the daughter of Robert Munce Sr).
2. Please see the separately sent (to follow) message regarding Robert Carney (b. ca. 1815) (my great-great-great-grandfather). We will be working on Carters/Cartys when we attack the Annapolis Hall of Records. Betty's Carters were farming in Maryland before moving to Delaware.
3. Have you been able to connect your (our) ancestor Thomas Carney (father of Hester Ann Carney, b. ca. 1806, who married James Dean Jr) to the families of Robert Carney, Sr (b. ca. 1815), Shary Carney (father of Shadrach b. 1870), or either of the William Carneys (Civil War vet b. ca. 1836; or 2nd husb. of Catherine Morgan Dean b. 1833)? No. It has just been in the last couple of months that we saw this connection. We have been concentrating our time elsewhere. Most of the Carney information we have comes from you.
4. You may wish to consider identifying "Manship" Cemetery as "Manship /Immanuel Union" Cemetery, since it is now known as Immanuel Union. Might assist researchers in future generations, reading your work. You are right. We changed all references to Immanuel Union United Methodist Church cemetery to just Manship Cemetery based on the comments of the present minister at the Church, who said Manship cemetery and the Church are different entities. Perhaps today they are administered differently, but we have since learned
that the Church itself was once referred to as Manship, though the minister denied it.
5. On the title page of the Dean document, you have James Dean's death date as "1757" instead of "1787" as you list elsewhere. What a confidence-builder that first page would be to readers! 1757 on the first page instead of 1787! I caught that after sending it to you and one other. Using your "Find" feature, look for 1757 and see if there are other James Dean dates in error. I think I found two more.
6. P.S. Do you wish to receive comments/corrections such as these, or are do you feel confident you are already capturing such things? The more comments the better. For a long while we thought we were perfect. Then we had children. And after that we started to collect and distribute family data. Both showed us WE NEED HELP!
7. How do you "translate" the GEDCOM stuff into completely-reworked documents so quickly?? We let our fingers walk through the computer software. Your GEDCOM file was converted to a CARTER.PAF file by the PAF 3.0 software. To create completely-reworked documents, PAF 3.0 is loaded. A surname list is generated and eye-balled for the earliest dates. It is viewed in a large pedigree format to see if it continues to the present. Exit PAF. Load PAF Companion. Find the name ID'ed above. Create a register-style descendancy report and export it to MS WORD. It really takes only a few minutes to do. Having worked at genealogy since the mid-60's, I was dreading the aspect of a family history which required the creation of an index, not to mention creating the "Register" numbering scheme. This is sooooo beautiful now. PAF 3.0 is $15 and PAF Companion is $10 from the LDS Church distribution center. You can order both from 1-800-537-5950. $2.00 charge for phone orders.
8. --You've listed the death date of Leroy Carter (#103), but not of Perry Carter (#104). --Under the children of Perry Walton Carter, (#104), you list the marriage dates of children Perry Daniel and Janet, but not the date of Kathleen, even though it was included in the GEDCOM. I created the report and sent it to you without inspection. I'll have to check to see why PAF
Companion didn't pick up these dates.
9. I failed to enter a "?" as the "surname" of Donald Lothair Carter's (#106) 2nd wife, therefore when you translated the file into the chart format, it capitalized SALLY as if it were a last name instead of a first name. Sally is also capitalized just below, in the record for their child, Patty, #207. This will be changed.
10. We will get back to you about the pictures. Robert and Catharine Dean's pix were owned by Beulah Mosley Smith and probably burned in a fire. We have snapshots taken of them as they hung on Beulah's wall. She wouldn't permit them to be removed from the frame. The quality of the copies is not good.
Thanks! And give us your Web site recommendations. What name should it go by?
Ray
Subj: RE: 1/10/98 messages
Date: 98-01-11 10:25:13 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Sorry to have inundated you with so much on one day! I tend to be pulled away from the genealogy a lot, with work & so forth, so when I get a chance to do a lot, I really try my best to get caught up. Never happens, though. The best I can ever hope for is to just put a few "dents" in plans & projects. And all of this that you've been witness to is just on my father's side. I still have my mother's side to contend with. I'm sure you have other lines than these as well.
Anyway, to the notes/questions below:
1. Yes, this is the same Joel Durham. I see some discrepancies on your chart, however. As for the children of Hester Concealer and Elisha Durham, you are missing a son Elisha (you have Elijah, which is correct, but not Elisha),and you have two extra children, Ann and Clayton. My information comes from Joel Durham's petition to the DE Orphans' Court in 1864, which listed the children of Hester and Elisha as follows:
Joel
Isaac
Elijah (d. before 1864, leaving 4 minor children)
Elisha
John
Elizabeth, m. Bayman Williams
Mary, m. George Clark
David
Hester, m. David Driggers
(infant) (deceased without being named)
If you do not have copies of the info extracted from these Orphan Court records, I would be happy to send you copies.
2. I have a lot of McCarty/Carty/Carter info, that I should probably look into getting organized to send you. Your Carters and mine are undoubtably related, having come from (Caroline County), MD. I know you have connection(s) to a George Carter. The George Carters have always been a mystery to me--I know my family is connected, but can never get it ironed out. George Thomas Carty (b. 1827) was my great-great-grandmother's brother, but I can't connect the "later" George Carters, (a later father & son, I believe) (at least one is buried at Manship/Immanuel Union, I believe) (my great-aunt referred to him as "Cousin George" but couldn't explain the connection). Perhaps they were descended from George Thomas Carty, or perhaps the brother, William Washington Carty.
10. I have a copy of a photo of Joel Durham. Would you like a copy?
I will forward a few other e-mail chains, touching on the peripheral of this family. I apologize for not weeding out the exact info you might need, but it would probably take me a week to familiarize myself with all the details again! Ha, ha. However, if you have any questions, I would be happy to assist.
Hope all this helps!
JCC
Subj: FW: Children & Grandchildren of Joel & Margaret Durham
Date: 98-01-11 10:24:25 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Here's some more chaos! :-)
JCC
----------
From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 1997 3:48 PM
To: 'Janet Jackson'
Cc: 'Debbie Unger'; 'MayBelle & Sandy Bordley'; 'Floyd Handsor'; 'Ned Heite'; 'Lynn Jackson'; 'Jon Miller'; 'Michele Pierce'
Subject: RE: Children & Grandchildren of Joel & Margaret Durham
(Man, am I glad that I found out how to use the "source" input field on FTM! I keep having more and more instances where I can't remember where I got a particular genealogical item/fact from! Almost every time I need something, I have to dig and dig and dig and....) (I guess that's what I get for trying to keep 2,021 [and growing] people in my head! And that's just my father's side....)
Regarding #1, below: I have found two separately copied extracts of Joel Durham's household from 1850 (reel 52, page 67, dwelling 195, Little Creek, Kent County), and they list Clayton Durham as being 9/12 months old at the time of the census, which actually would seem to indicate that he'd have been born more likely in 1849.
< snip >
However, I'm confused by your reasoning that Clayton's son Joseph was perhaps Melvina's son, perhaps born prior to her marriage to Clayton.... How did you reach this conclusion, based on the census info you listed? Is there a birth year for Joseph, that would have some bearing on this? Or do you know Clayton & Melvina's marriage date? Or am I just missing something?
Regarding #2, below: Thanks for the dates on Melvina. I just added them to FTM, and noticed that she died only 4 months after her daughter Melia was born.
Melvina's parents were Robert Carney (b. ca. 1814) and Phebe _____ (b. ca. 1812). (My g-g-g-grandparents). I show that Robert was a brother to James Carney (b. ca. 1824), and to _____ Carney (father of Mike Carney who married Sally Mosely). I know nothing more on them. As I mentioned in another message dated yesterday ("Carney Question" 6/17/97), I would love to find out how this Robert Carney connects to Shadrach/Shedrick "Shade" Carney as well.
Regarding Annie, (#3, below): I finally dug long enough, and found that the source of my info was some charts I received back in the mid-late 80's from a couple of people at the Bridgeton Indian Center. So I have no idea where they obtained this info. But it lists Annie Durham's (dau. of Benj & Sally) info as: "born 1854, died 18 Sep 1912, married _______ Hansor/Hanzer."
At any rate, I have changed my FTM to reflect your data. I figure you
know more about your own line than most other people. :-)
Regarding #4, below: Thanks for the info! You and I are now officially (according to FTM):
3rd cousins once removed,
7th cousins once removed, and
8th cousins!
JCC
----------
From: Janet Jackson[SMTP:jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu]
Sent: Friday, May 30, 1997 12:16 PM
To: John C. Carter
Subject: RE: Children & Grandchildren of Joel & Margaret Durham
Hi John,
> 1. You show Clayton Durham's (son of Joel & Margaret) birth date as
>March 1850, but my notes have him born 16 Jul 1850. Have to find source....
*Soundex T0137#6 for 1900 Census shows
Clayton Durham (b) b. Mar 1850 age 50 p.b. Del Locality: Little Creek
Joseph Carney, son
*This would mean that Joseph was the son of Melvina Carney, born perhaps
prior to her marriage to Clayton??
> 2. For your info, I have his (Clayton's) wife Melvina/Malvinia's maiden
>name as Carney. She was born ca. 1849 and was the daughter of Robert &
>Phebe Carney.
*My records show that Melvina was born 15 June 1849, died 30 Aug 1882
(church records).
Any more on her parents?
> 3. You show that John Durham's (son of Joel & Margaret) first wife was Annie Durham, daughter of Benjamin II & Sally Ann H. Durham. But my notes show this Annie as having married a Handsor...? Did she have more than one husband?
*My mother is not aware of Annie (her grandmother) having been married to anyone other than John. (My mother's mother, Bertha, never mentioned that, if it indeed is so. Annie's mother, Sally Ann was a Handsor.)
While I'm not sure of her exact death date, she is not listed in her father, Benjamin's will of 1888. Her widow/husband John is by 1900 married to his 2nd wife with an 11 year old son (Alonzo, born 1889). My mother remembers her mother (Bertha) saying that her mother (Annie) died while she (Bertha) was quite young. Also my grandmother Bertha moved from Delaware to Phila in 1900 and her mother had died by then (per my mother).
> 4. You provided the notation that Bertha Adele was your grandmother. Can you list >your mother's (I presume this is your mother's line, and not your father's) name and dates, >and then your info, so that I can connect you in my FTM? Just realized I didn't have you >"linked up" yet! Thanks.
>
>John Durham b. June 1853 married wife #1 Annie Durham (daughter of Benjamin
>and Sally Ann Handsor)
> Napoleon Roland b. 1874
> Bertha Adele b. 08 Feb 1878, d. 20 March 1969 (my grandmother)
>wife #2: Ruth J. _____
> Lenwood
> Alonzo b. 18 Jan 1889
>
*Bertha Adele b. 08 Feb 1878 d. 20 March 1969
married Herbert Getchell Cooper b. 7 Dec 1879 D 20 Jan 1957
They had 3 children:
1. Lanier St. Clair Cooper b 1901 d. 1962
married Gladys Drain d. ca 1985
2. Roland Durham Cooper b. 19 May 1904 d. 2 July 1947
3. Ruth Geraldine Cooper b 02 Dec 1907
married Spencer Harris Howard Jackson b. 22 Sept 1904
d. 29 Sept 1950
Children:
1. Herbert Van Jackson b. 15 Oct 1936
2. Janet Ruth Jackson** b. 01 Jan 1946
married Herman Karl Miller b. 05 June 1944
**Cooper added to name in 1995
Children:
1.Robert Karl Miller b. 13 Aug 1963
2.Debra Lynne Miller b. 15 Feb 1969
Jan
From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 1997 7:04 PM
To: 'Janet Jackson'
Cc: 'Debbie Unger'; 'MayBelle & Sandy Bordley'; 'Floyd Handsor'; 'Ned Heite'; 'Lynn Jackson'; 'Jon Miller'
Subject: RE: Children & Grandchildren of Joel & Margaret Durham
Hi, Jan.
Thanks for the information on Joel's grandchildren, below.
In looking over some of the info you provided, I have a couple of
extras/differences/queries:
1. You show Clayton Durham's (son of Joel & Margaret) birth date as
March 1850, but my notes have him born 16 Jul 1850. Have to find source....
2. For your info, I have his (Clayton's) wife Melvina/Malvinia's maiden
name as Carney. She was born ca. 1849 and was the daughter of Robert &
Phebe Carney.
3. You show that John Durham's (son of Joel & Margaret) first wife
was Annie Durham, daughter of Benjamin II & Sally Ann H. Durham. But my
notes show this Annie as having married a Handsor...? Did she have more
than one husband?
4. You provided the notation that Bertha Adele was your grandmother.
Can you list your mother's (I presume this is your mother's line, and not your
father's) name and dates, and then your info, so that I can connect you in my
FTM? Just realized I didn't have you "linked up" yet! Thanks.
That's all for now.
Thanks.
JCC
----------
From: Janet Jackson[SMTP:jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 1997 10:54 PM
To: John C. Carter
Cc: 'Debbie Unger'; 'MayBelle & Sandy Bordley'; 'Floyd Handsor'; 'Ned Heite'; 'Lynn Jackson'; 'Michele Pierce'
Subject: RE: James Edward Durham
Hi John,
1. How do you know that this James Edward Durham is Joel's grandson, if you
don't know who James' father was? Was enumerated in Joel's household or
something?
My notes from the 1870 census p. 301 Dwelling No. 305, Family No. 304:
Joel Durham, age 30, farmhand
Margret, age 32
John, age 18, farmhand
William, age 14, farmhand
James E., grandson, age 3
2. the illegitimate son of Margaret Durham b. 1844 (daughter of Benjamin
Durham II & Sally Ann Handsor) and ???--don't know his father.
I show Margaret as daughter of of Benjamin and wife#1 (unsure of source at
this point.) My notes also show Margaret had a son James P. Durham, b. 1867,
and eventually married a Norwood, but my notes show nothing further.
So, if James P. Durham is grandson of Benjamin Durham II AND Joel Durham,
then the father would be one of Joel's sons, right? Perhaps Charles b. 1842?
3. My notes show children of Benjamin and Sallie Ann children as:
Daniel b. Oct 1849, d. 09 Jan 1931 m. Caroline
Annie b. ca 1854, died bef 1888 m. John Durham (son of Joel Durham)
John M. b. Nov 1856 died aft 1900 m. Elmira
Harriet b. 1858, d. bef 1888
Enoch Durham b. June 1858, died 1929, m. Margaret Muntz, Cora Miller
Jeremiah (Jerry) b. 1862 d. 1936 m. Lydia Muntz
Henrietta (Hannie) F. b. Dec 1862, died 1935 m. Napoleon Bonaparte Morgan
Henry b. 1869
Clem b. 1872 m. Rebecca
Frank b. Dec 1873
Minnie (Mariah) b. 1874, m. Henry Ridgeway
Amanda b. 26 Dec 1874, d. 10 Aug 1910 m. James O. Sammons
Harvey Durham b. 1876 m. Lola
(I'm probably off somewhere and perhaps some of these were grandchildren? However in the 1880 census all are listed as children. And the 1900 census lists Sallie living with Frank, son.)
4. Joel Durham's other grandchildren (as far as I know):
George Durham b 1847 married Elizabeth aka "Aunt Lizzie"
Cordelia b. 1869
Horace b. 1875
William b. 1884
Elmer b. 1886
George ca 1880
Clayton Durham b. March 1850, d. 1924 married Melvina (wife #1)
Mary L. b. 1871
Louisa b. 1880
Melia b. 30 April 1882
Joseph
John Durham b. June 1853 married
wife #1 Annie Durham (daughter of Benjamin and Sally Ann Handsor)
Napoleon Roland b. 1874
Bertha Adele b. 08 Feb 1878, d. 20 March 1969 (my grandmother)
wife #2: Ruth J. _____
Lenwood
Alonzo b. 18 Jan 1889
Let me know what you think...
jan
----------
From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 1997 11:31 AM
To: 'Janet Jackson'
Cc: 'Debbie Unger'; 'MayBelle & Sandy Bordley'; 'Floyd Handsor'; 'Ned Heite'; 'Lynn Jackson'; 'Michele Pierce'
Subject: RE: James Edward Durham
Hi, Jan.
Finally had a chance to look up the info regarding this question. To start with, I don't have any info on any of Joel Durham's grandchildren, other than the children of his daughter Harriett, since that is my line. I would love to see what information you may have on the others.
But I have a question: How do you know that this James Edward Durham is Joel's grandson, if you don't know who James' father was? Was enumerated in Joel's household or something? This is a tantalizing clue, because if my suspicion is correct, this James Edward Durham could be the same James E. H. "Porter" Durham who was Debbie's ancestor.
According to my notes, James E. H. "Porter" Durham was born in 1867 (which would indeed make him age 3 in 1870), and was the illegitimate son of Margaret Durham b. 1844 (daughter of Benjamin Durham II & Sally Ann Handsor) and ???--don't know his father. Debbie has been trying to find this out for quite some time. But to my knowledge, there has been no discovered connection between Benjamin Durham II (Margaret's father) and Elisha Durham (Joel's father). If these two James Durhams are the same, and if you have some record of a connection between James and Joel, then perhaps this is our first clue to connecting Benjamin II and Elisha...???
Debbie & everyone: What do all of you think?
JCC
P.S. My notes show that Margaret's first child was James E. H. "Porter" Durham, born out-of-wedlock to unknown father, then she married a Burton and had 3 children (Mary, David & Daniel), and then she married Ike Northan and had 3 more children (don't know names).
P.P.S. Jan: Yes, I had the info from the Orphan's Court petition.
Thanks!
----------
From: Janet Jackson[SMTP:jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 1997 12:45 AM
To: John C. Carter
Subject: RE: Joel Durham
Hi John,
Question re: Joel Durham's grandchild: James Edward Durham. Who were this
boy's parents? He's listd in 1870 census, age 3.
I'm sure you have this but thought I'd put it out anyway:
4 Oct 1864 Kent Co. Orphan's Court Petition of Joel Durham of Dover Hd. states he is son of Elisha Durham (b. 1794) and Hester Concealler of Jeremiah Concealler and Elizabeth ?. Children of Elisha and Hester are:
1) Joel Durham (b. 1818), wife Margaret Munce (b. 1816),
2) Isaac Durham,
3) Elijah Durham died with 4 minor children: Isaiah, Elijah, Mary, Catherine,
4) Elisha Durham, b. 1840,
5) John Durham, b. 1837,
6) Elizabeth Durham, wife of Bayman Williams,
7) Mary Durham (b. 1834) wife of George Clark,
8) David Durham, (b. 1833),
9) Hester Durham, (b. 1836) wife of David Driggers,
10) unnamed infant child deceased.
Take care, Janet Cooper Jackson
Subj: FW: Concelor's
Date: 98-01-11 10:24:23 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hello, Ray & Betty.
At the risk of COMPLETELY confusing you, I thought I might forward this message-chain to you, containing discussion regarding the Concealers, etc. It would be best to start at the bottom, and work your way up.
JCC
----------
From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 1997 6:36 PM
To: 'Janet Jackson'
Cc: 'Debbie Unger'; 'MayBelle & Sandy Bordley'; 'Floyd Handsor'; 'Ned Heite'; 'Lynn Jackson'; 'Jon Miller'
Subject: RE: Concelor's
Hello.
My comments are noted between the text, below.
JCC
From: Janet Jackson[SMTP:jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu]
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 1997 1:04 AM
To: John C. Carter
Subject: RE: Concelor's
< misc. deleted >
John's comment, previously:
....Could Joel's memory have been flawed? It was ~40 years later that he made this statement, but then again, Joel was born ca. July 1819,
Jan's response:--- MY RECORDS SHOW JULY 1818 (BUT I DON'T HAVE THE SOURCE LISTED)
John's current comment:
*** Apparently I got the July 1819 date from the 1900 census and/or soundex (see the same soundex card which has the infamous "father-in-law" notation (for Isaiah Munce) we previously discussed. Joel's death certificate, that you sent me, says that he was 89 at the time of his death, on Feb 17, 1909. This would also make him born 1819 if his birthmonth was July. The 1850 census shows him as age 32, but we would need to know if the census info was
recorded before or after July that year, in order to be able to calculate...wait a minute, that would make it between 1817 and 1818! Oh, well....
< Misc. deleted >
John's comment, previously:
>Next, Ned's chart did not show that Elijah Jr. married his brother's widow
Elizabeth after Jeremiah died.
Jan's response:
According to my muncey notes, in 1814 she marries her brother-in-law elijah.
John's current comment: *** Hmm, will have to re-check this....
John's comment, previously:
>Now...regarding your question of whether Elijah Sr. was the son of William...
Jan's response:
YES, IT DOES HELP TO PLOT IT ALL OUT...
Thomas Conselor, Sr. was married to _______. He died Oct 1739. His will lists his daughters as: Sarah (Butcher), Elesabeth (Ffrancisco), Mary Concelar. Also mentions grandson William.
[Muncey thinks that William is probably the son of Thomas Conselor who died
in 1726, leaving a widow, Joanna. This Thomas is probably the son of Thomas,
Sr. LYNN AGREES WITH THIS]
WILLIAM MARRIES MARY (WHO DIES AFTER 1788). HE DIES 1781.
[Muncey's notes go on to mention an Elijah who is born in 1762 who marries
Hannah Durham and dies 31 Dec 1801. Their children are:
1. Jeremiah b aft 1779, marries Elizabeth dies 1814
2. Elijah marries Elizabeth in 1814, dies 1826
3. Sarah marries Debirx Miller
4. Elizabeth marries a John Durham
5. Benjamin b 1779 in Del, marries Rachel Sparksman, dies 1846 in Salem NJ
John's current comment: This (above) family group agrees with Ned's chart
from June 1995, except he did not have #2 son Elijah's wife's name, and he
shows #5 son Benjamin as dying in 1810, not 1846.
More of Jan's response:
There is no indication of who this elijah is. However lynn indicated in an email 13 march that hannah durham married elijah concilor (son of william).[john current comment: i must not have
This info--i do not have an email message from lynn dated 13 march]
Other concealors listed in census and tax records are:john, charles and thomas, all born bef 1761. I've made the assumption that these are all sons of william and mary but i have no source to prove this.
It is this thomas who marries john and elizabeth's daughter elizabeth. Thomas and elijah married sisters, perhaps they were brothers? Perhaps john and charles were also sons of william.
Munceys paper goes on to say that Jeremiah and Elizabeth children are:
1. Esther (Hester?) b 1794 marries 1) Jessie Dean 29 aug 1814, 2) Elisha Durham aft 1818
2. Elijah
3. Hannah marries Perry Cork
4. Harietta
5. Jeremiah Jr. dies between 1824-1828
John's current comment: This family (above) also agrees with Ned's June 1995 chart. However, as was discussed earlier this year in this group, we have determined that Esther Councilor and Hester Councilor were two different people. Esther Councilor married Jesse Dean Sr. in 1814, and was most likely the widow Councilor. (See Lynn's e-mail of 13 Apr 1997). Esther died at least prior to 1839, when Jesse Sr wrote his will, and most likely prior to 1830, since she was not listed in Jesse Sr's household in the 1830 census. On the other
hand, according to Joel Durham's 1864 Orphan's Court petition, HESTER Councilor had to have been married to Elisha Durham during the period of ca. 1819 - 1837, since this is the period in which their children were born (See my e-mail of 15 Mar 1997).
< Misc deleted >
THANKS FOR YOUR HELP!! JAN
----------
From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 1997 10:00 PM
To: 'Jan Jackson'
Cc: 'Debbie Unger'; 'MayBelle & Sandy Bordley'; 'Floyd Handsor'; 'Ned Heite'; 'Lynn Jackson'; 'Michele Pierce'
Subject: RE: Concelor's
Hello again, Jan & Lynn:
Everyone else: Yes, I'm catching up on my past correspondence again. Jan & Lynn have already received a couple.
Regarding the Concealors:
My notes are kind of scanty regarding them, but I do have copies of some charts that Ned created and sent to Debbie back in June of 1995.
Among these notes I see the following discrepancies from what you've listed:
Ned's chart agrees that Thomas Concealor married Elizabeth, daughter of John Durham, Sr. However, you show their daughter Elizabeth marrying John Fransisco. Ned's chart shows Elizabeth Durham's (Thomas' wife) brother Isaiah married Mary ______, whose 2nd husband was John Fransisco. I suppose this is possible. If this is the same John Fransisco, it is conceivable that he could have been married both to Elizabeth Durham's daughter, and to Elizabeth Durham's sister-in-law. Confused yet? :-)
Next, you have Elijah Concealor's dates as 1762-1801, but Ned's chart shows that he died in 1812. My FTM file agrees with your dates, but I also show his exact date of death as 29 Dec 1801. Not sure where I got this. (Ned, do you know where you got the 1812 date?)
Then, you show Elijah & Hannah's son Jeremiah born 1779, but Ned's chart shows him born ca. 1775. No real problem there. (Do you have a source for the 1779 birth date?) Both you and Ned agree that Jeremiah died in 1811. However, according to his grandson Joel Durham's petition to the DE Orphans Court in 1864, he says that his grandfather Jeremiah died "on or about the year AD 1824." Could Joel's memory have been flawed? It was ~40 years later that he made this statement, but then again, Joel was born ca. July 1819, and would certainly (?) remember whether his grandfather had passed away before or after he himself was born, wouldn't he? Ned & Jan: Do you know where you got Jeremiah's death date of 1811 from? ... Sheesh! I just checked my FTM, and even I have that he died 29 Apr 1811 !! Now I have to check where I got that from! Help!
(All of this brings up a point that I plan to discuss in an upcoming e-mail: how to list sources in FTM).
Next, Ned's chart did not show that Elijah Jr. married his brother's widow Elizabeth after Jeremiah died.
Now...regarding your question of whether Elijah Sr. was the son of William...
I just made a chart of all that you list below...and something must be wrong. First, you say that Thomas Concealor Sr. died in 1739. Then you say that he married Elizabeth Durham, daughter of John Durham Sr. I'm not sure if this can be possible, based on my notes, because I show John Durham Sr. was born prior to 1733, and died 13 May 1788. Well, I guess it depends on HOW MUCH PRIOR to 1733 he was born, and how OLD Thomas Concealor was when he died. If John was born, say, in 1700 or so, then he would be old enough to have a daughter (Elizabeth) (born, say, about 1720) who could marry someone (Thomas Sr) and have children (Thomas Jr) before Thomas Sr died in 1739. But wait a minute. If Thomas JR died in 1726, AFTER having married and having a son of his own (William), then he (Thomas Jr) would had to have been born by, say, 1705, which means his mother Elizabeth would had to have been born by around 1685, which means John Sr. would had to have been born by 1665, which means John Sr. would have been 123 years old when he died!
And EVEN IF this part of it worked out somehow, then you still have to consider that in order for your question to be true (for Elijah to be the son of William), then that means that William's SON would have married William's GRANDFATHER'S SISTER! In other words, Elijah would be married to his own great-grand-aunt!! :-)
I have found that it really helps with a lot of this stuff, if you make a chart and plot it all out.
Perhaps, also, you may have made a typo with a date, or some name error that I haven't caught...?
Let me know (yikes!) if you have any more questions or clarifications.
JCC
----------
From: Janet Jackson[SMTP:jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 1997 2:56 AM
To: John C. Carter; 'Michele Pierce'; 'Debbie Unger'; belle25@; 'Floyd Handsor'; CBlume6@; 'Ned Heite'; 'Lynn Jackson'; lheite@eldhorn.is
Subject: Concelor's
Greetings from California,
I'm working my way back through my documents and records and currently working on the Concelors. This is what I find and subsequent question:
Thomas Concelar, Sr. d. 1739 m. Elizabeth Durham, daughter of John Durham
Sr. and Elizabeth Hewes. Their children are:
Elizabeth m. John Fransisco
Sarah m. _____ Butcher
Mary
Thomas Concelar, Jr. m. Joanna. Thomas Jr. died 1726. Their child was William Concelar who married Mary and died 1780.
Elijah Concelar 1762-1801 m. Hannah Durham, daughter of John Durham Sr. and Elizabeth Hewes. Children:
Jeremiah 1779 - 1811 m. Elizabeth
Elijah Jr. d. 1826 m. Elizabeth after Jeremiah died
Sarah m. Debrix Miller
Elizabeth m. John Durham
Benjamin m. Rachel Sparksman
QUESTION: Was Elijah the son of William??
Thanks in advance...
Jan
**********************************
Janet Cooper Jackson
Subj: FW: Hewitt Durham
Date: 98-01-11 10:24:20 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Here's another e-mail I thought I'd forward, at least for its discussion of the different Elisha Durhams, which can be confusing.
JCC
----------
From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 1997 6:40 PM
To: 'Janet Jackson'
Cc: 'Debbie Unger'; 'MayBelle & Sandy Bordley'; 'Floyd Handsor'; 'Ned Heite'; 'Lynn Jackson'; 'Jon Miller'; 'Michele Pierce'
Subject: RE: Hewitt Durham
Hi, Jan.
To answer your question, Hewitt Durham has always been somewhat of an enigma.
Also known as "Hugh" Durham, he was Debbie's direct ancestor. I have his dates as born 1829, died 1902. His wife, Angelica Songo AND/OR Anna Durham, is also a bit of a mystery, but I'll get to her in a few moments.
I'll discuss Hewitt/Hugh first.
It has been reported that Hewitt was the son of Elisha Durham (ca.
1794-1864), and his 2nd wife Priscilla ________, but this cannot be so. Whereas he *might* be a son of PRISCILLA by a possible first husband (and thus not be a "true" Durham, unless Priscilla's maiden name or possible former husband was also a Durham), he *cannot* be a son of ELISHA, as per Joel Durham's petition to the DE Orphans' Court in 1864, which listed all of Elisha & HESTER'S children, living & deceased. These children's dates of birth range from ca. 1819 to ca. 1837, and Hewitt's name was not among them.
The 1850 Kent County DE census shows Elisha & Priscilla living together, along with Elisha & Hester's four youngest children. Hewitt would have been about 21 at this time. Has anyone located Elisha in the 1840 census? It is unfortunate that the 1840 census does not list names other than the head-of-household.
***Keep in mind that there are at least THREE Elisha Durhams, and THREE Elijah Durhams, all in this *immediate* family: Elisha Durham Sr., as mentioned above, b. ca. 1794, who had sons Elijah Sr. & Elisha Jr, both b. between 1820-1833, ...their older brother Joel's sons Elisha (b. ca. Oct 1839) and Elijah (b. ca. 1845), and Elijah Sr's (b.ca. 1820-33) son Elijah Jr. (a minor in 1864).
Getting back to Hewitt... I've gone through a lot of my Durham stuff, and although I've found copies of info given to me by Debbie, the Bridgeton Indian Center, and one other source (passed along to some Durham descendants here in Florida) [Debbie: I'm referring to Caroline], that all refer to Hewitt being a son of Elisha & Priscilla (and now, Jan's notation below), I'm not sure where they all obtained this info. It's possible that they all received the
info from the same place (Bridgeton Indian Center??), but I'm curious if we can identify separate sources.
As for Hewitt's wife, sources also seem to be conflicting as to whether she was Angelica (Ann) Songo/Songa/Sonka or Anna Durham. That is, until Jan's message below. Previously, my notes had shown the name "Angelica" as being a Songo/Songa/Sonka and the name "Anna" as being a Durham. Also, my notes stated that if indeed this person was Anna Durham, she was most likely the daughter of William Durham (Benjamin Sr's son) and Mahala
________. Jan's reference below is the first time I have seen the name "Angelica" paired up with "Durham," and it is also the first time that I have seen the Songo/Songa/Sonka name given to MAHALA. Perhaps this is a breakthrough? Jan: what is your source??
Everyone: do you have anything else on this? I spoke with Debbie the night before last, and I know she is waiting with "bated breath" for a response to this one. She has been trying to unravel the mystery of Hewitt/Hugh and Angelica/Anna for quite some time.
HELP! :-)
Thanks!
JCC
----------
From: Janet Jackson[SMTP:jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu]
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 1997 1:05 AM
To: John C. Carter
Subject: RE: Elmira Carty vs Elmira Durham
< Misc deleted >
And I found in my FTM a Hewitt Durham b. 1829, d. 1902, son of Elisha Sr. and Hester. Now, the Orphans' Court records show no such son. This Hewitt is married to Angelica Durham, daughter of William Durham and Mahala Songa. Any clues on this little mix-up??
More later...
jan
Subj: RE: Photos
Date: 98-01-19 14:16:19 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
I've just re-sent the photos as attachments again, to see if you can see them. (Message is entitled "Re-sending Photos.") (The message I sent this morning did not have the actual attachments, only the titles/references). I had originally sent the photos/attachments on the 13th.
The comment I made this morning regarding Mary Ann Dean's photo was meant to explain my delay in getting the promised envelope of information (including the photo of Mary Ann) off in the mail to you. Now that I have the reprint of Mary Ann's photo, I will get this envelope mailed to you tomorrow.
I'm including a couple of other photos as well, but I also have several more that you'd probably find of interest, but I have to track down the negatives and get more copies made. My photograph & negatives organization is somewhat lacking, to say the least!
If you are unable to receive or view the photo-attachments in the just-sent e-mail, let me know, and I will try to find the negatives to make copies of them also.
Thanks!
JCC
Subj: Children of Moses & Mary Ann
Date: 98-01-25 16:32:16 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)')
Hello, Betty & Ray.
In light of the re-clarification of the 16 children of Moses Coker and Mary Ann Dean Coker, I decided to update my FTM to include all 16 children. I also wanted to incorporate any extra information on the children (dates, etc) from your Dean document that I might not have included. However, upon inputting the information, I came upon some discrepancies. I thought I would bring them to your attention, for any comments or clarifications:
1. Albeda Coker. You have her birth year as 1879, but her tombstone in Fork Branch states she was born in 1878. (Have photo).
2. Albeda's husband Calvin Clark. You have his birth year as 1877, but his tombstone in Fork Branch states 1887. (Have photo).
3. Sarah J. Coker. You have her death date as only 1957, but you may have already copied the full date from the copy of the obituary I sent you: 15 Dec 1957.
4. Angea Bell Coker. You have her birth date as 20 Sep 1882, but a transcription I have from the Bridgeton Indian Center, listing the tombstones from the John Wesley Church Cemetery in Frederica, Kent Co, DE, shows her birth date as 29 Sep.
5. William H. Coker. You have his death date as only 1965, but his tombstone in Immanuel Union / Manship Cemetery states 03 May 1965. (Have photo).
6. Amanda E. Coker. You have her death date as only 1963, but, per Lynn Jackson's statement of her being buried on the day John F. Kennedy was shot, we know she died Nov. 1963. (Kennedy was shot 22 Nov 1963).
7. Nathan Louis Coker. You have his middle initial listed but not the name Louis--can't remember the source of this--most likely Lynn. Also, Lynn notes that his full death date was 11 Jun 1955--you have this in the "Lynn comment" section of your document. Not sure of her source.
8. Caroline Coker. You have her death date as only 1981, but I have 13 Jul 1981. Not sure of source, but most likely Lynn.
9. Mary Eliza Coker. You have her listed as having married Cassius Mosely, but Lynn's notes in your document state that Albeda married Cassius Mosely, then Calvin Clark.
Please let me know if I've overlooked something, or if you have other sources which contradict any of the above.
Thanks again!
JCC
Subj: RE: surnames
Date: 98-01-28 07:08:17 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: WyNot22@ ('WyNot22@')
CC: 74547.41@ (74547.41@), Montigre@ (Montigre@), MPierce96@ ('MPierce96@'), nlpierce@willie..nj.us (nlpierce@willie..nj.us)
Hello, Wythena.
Michele forwarded your message along to our little research group. I
was very surprised to recognize your name right away! I have corresponded with your Aunt Pinky since around 1975 or 1976. It's good to hear from you, and to know that you are interested in genealogy as well!
Your aunt has helped me immeasurably over the years with information, and was also very kind to take me around the Cheswold & Dover area to visit with many people when I was in Delaware, several of which are sadly no longer with us.
I was very fond of your grandparents as well--they were truly kind people.
When I visited Pinky in late 1996, she kindly allowed me to make a copy of Joel Durham's photograph (my--and your--great-great-great-grandfather)--a photograph that I will always cherish.
It is a pleasure to share a genealogical interest with you, and if there's anything I can do to help, please let me know.
Take care,
John Carter
spiff@
----------
From: MPierce96@[SMTP:MPierce96@]
Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 12:15 PM
To: 74547.41@; nlpierce@willie..nj.us;
Cc: hmuncey@
Subject: Fwd: surnames
Yet, another researcher!!!
----------
From: WyNot22@[SMTP:WyNot22@]
Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 7:37 AM
To: MPierce96@
Subject: Re: surnames
Hi Michele,
It seems that your husband and I are related . My grandmother 's name was Hazella Sammons of Cheswold De. Her parents were William Garfield Sammons and Ella Durham Sammons. I have William's parents listed as Nehemiah Sammons and Elizabeth Muntz Sammons. I also have a picture of grandmom Liz. I really can't believe someone actually found me on the net. If you have any documentation please forward it to me, I would really appreciate it. Could write forever, oh by the way my maiden name was Muntz (ring a bell?) Well I hope your husband is doing fine and I hope to hear from you soon... gotta get my daughter up for school!!!
Wy
Subj: RE: Cott family
Date: 98-02-01 16:38:35 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty')
Hi, Betty & Ray.
Here are my comments regarding your points for discussion:
1. I assumed that the Ann Cott who married Elisha Durham was a daughter of John A. Cott, since he was still living at the time (1840) and would most likely be the one referred to as John "Sr." I know assumption does not constitute fact, but this seemed the most logical choice to me. (Thanks for the note of deciphering "Thursday.")
2. I do not know how Mary Carney relates to the Cotts. I have never been able to determine who she is.
3. Yes, Florence is the daughter of John Harland Cott & Elsie B. Tuttle. Interesting about the Tuttle source you discovered.
4. Mary Elmira Cott married first Robert Carney (yes, they were the parents of Clem Carney, Sr, of Weslager's book), then 2nd Cash Mosely, then 3rd Absalom Saunders. The names of both the 2nd husband and the 3rd husband were given to me by Mr. Hillary "Duke" Johnston, now dec'd, a great-grandson of Mary Elmira & Robert. Thus the surname of the 3rd husband was influential in my being able to locate/order her death certificate.
As for who the James B. Carney on her death certificate is, I'm not sure. Duke told me Robert & Mary Elmira's children that he knew of were "Jim, Anthalinda [Duke's grandmother, "Lindy"], and Clem." However, in my FTM, I have the "Jim" shown as "Robert James" (in fact, in Duke's letter he had originally wrote "Robert" and then crossed it out and wrote "Jim." [Duh! Just noticed/remembered: these 3 children are listed in the Cott Bible records]. So I'm not sure where the "B" comes in. Also, in my FTM I have a 4th child not mentioned by Duke or the Cott Bible: Anna. At this time I'm not sure what the source of her name is. I will keep you posted if I come across it.
5. Yes, Loatman was misspelled as "Lopeman" in the Cott Bible records. I have copies of lineage charts given to the Bridgeton Indian Center, seemingly submitted by Duke (although I seem to remember he told me they were actually submitted by his brother), listing their ancestors' names spelled as "Loatman." I also have a copy of the death certificate of Orietta L. Johnston (Duke's mother), and it lists her father's name as "John Loatman." (Also of note: John was a brother to Eli Loatman, grandfather of MayBelle Durham Bordley of our e-mail group. They were sons of Samuel Loatman, Sr.).
6. Yes, Rebecca Cott (I usually consider the "Rebeckah" to be a misspelling, especially since she is listed in the Ridgeway Bible records always as "Rebecca," as well as on her death certificate and in census records) married Cornelius Ridgeway (often spelled "Ridgway"). They were my great-great-grandparents. As for their burial location, Cornelius' death certificate states that he was buried at Manship, but I know that there is no marker there. One of my personal goals in life is to have a Civil War military tombstone placed on his grave--the only problem is: locating the plot. [More on this later]. I sent you a copy of Rebecca's death certificate, and it does not list her burial location. Cornelius remarried after Rebecca's death, (to another Rebecca: Rebecca Purloin Collins) so it is not known which wife, if either, he may be buried with.
7. The cousin I corresponded with on 21 Jan 1990 was Pauline Mosely Mercado, first cousin of my father, and daughter of Burton Mosely and Mary Jane Carter.
8. Yes, I should indeed send you the information from the Ridg(e)way Bible. However, I do not have photocopies, only transcriptions. But I strove to copy everything down EXACTLY as in the original, complete with misspellings and corrections. I will send you copies of the transcriptions. [Sad note: this Bible, which was very ornate and beautiful, was horribly damaged in the last year or so when a pipe burst in the home of its current owner, flooding the house].
9. I have looked at this entry again, but it does not resemble a "C" to me. Especially when comparing it to the "C" in "Cott" in the same entry, or to the "C" in "Carney" just below it. (But then again, it the years in doing my genealogical research--it's kind of uncanny....)
F. I saw in your notes (of both the Cott and Dean documents) the name Bryan Huneycutt, and have been meaning to ask you about him. Have you been in touch with him? He contacted Harry Muncey several years ago, and I corresponded with him one time and he sent me a reply with excerpts from his Dean material. I shared his info with Lynn, and we discussed it and found it to contain many errors and/or discrepancies. Partly out of letter-writing procrastination and partly out of his material having so many discrepancies to point out, I did not write back to him again for a few years. When I finally did, I deeply apologized for not answering him sooner, and offered the information and/or "corrections" that Lynn and I had discussed. But I never heard back from him. I am curious if he is still performing research, or did you just access older material that he perhaps had on file at the Bridgeton Indian Center?)
I guess this is enough (!!) info for one e-mail message for now, so I'll stop here. If you have any more questions, please let me know, as I am very happy to be helping you with this. I think many of us involved in genealogy have aspirations of one day getting all of our information gathered into some cohesive form, for publishing or just to distribute to family members. However, time and distractions seem to take their toll, and it never gets done. I'm very thankful that you both are doing this, and am willing to help you however I can. Just finding the time is the hard part!
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I must admit it was with some trepidation that I was at first both amazed and "worried" about your unbelievably prolific outputs of documents covering many of our common family lines. I guess I had hopes of one day compiling some of this myself. However, when I really sat down and thought about it, I realized that the sooner this information becomes available to others out there, the sooner it can be of help and be put to good use. And who knows how long it would take me or anyone else to do anything! Besides, there are always other branches to work on that we don't have in common. So I continue to welcome your work and will share anything I have that might help.
That said, I don't know if you had any plans to create any documents regarding the Coker family, but I have quite a bit of information about them.
Well, I guess that's all for now.
Take care, and let me know if there's anything else you need!
JCC
----------
From: AquaBetty[SMTP:AquaBetty@]
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 3:32 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Cott family
John,
I entered the info you sent recently and created the print-out attached of the Cott family. Would you please review it for errors, etc.? I have assumed some relationships from the Bible entries. Please tell me if I am correct.
Some points for discussion:
1. In Cott Bible, what is relationship of Ann Cott who married Elisha
Durham, son of George? By the way, they were married "on Thursday" tenth day
of December--it checks out using the date calculator in PAF. Which John Cott
senior is being referred to?
2. How is the Mary Carney who died 6 Dec 1839 age 38-4-18 (= born 19 Apr 1801
according to PAF date calculator) related to the Cotts?
3. I assume that Florence L. Cott (m Paul Baker) is the daughter of Elsie Blanche Tuttle and John H. Cott. The source of Elsie Tuttle's data is cited in the paper.
4. I assume that Elmira Cott married Robert Carney and are the parents of the infamous Clem Carney of Weslager fame. From her death certificate, it appears that she married again to a Mr. Saunders. Her death was reported by James B. Carney. Do you know who this is?
5. Has Loatman been misspelled as "Lopeman?" I find no record of burials for this family at Manship or Fork Branch cemeteries. Do you have further info?
6. I assume that Rebeckah Cott married Cornelius Ridgeway. I find no record of burials for this family at Manship or Fork Branch cemeteries. Do you have further info?
7. Who was the cousin you corresponded with 21 Jan 1990? I like to be complete in citing work, in case there is need for follow-up.
8. In the letter (7, above) you mentioned the Ridgeway Bible. Do the entries in it merit inclusion in the Dean/Cott paper?
9. "Laura? Cott was borned the 28 of July 1834 on Monday" Are the original pages clearer? The first name on my copy looks like it starts with a "C" rather than an "L"
10. I assume that "Elsie (died) Sept - 1966" refers to Elsie Tuttle Cott.
We appreciate the time you have taken to share your family data with us.
B&R
Subj: FW: Ireland to Maryland 1678
Date: 98-02-01 17:34:10 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'), ('Pierce,
Hello, everyone.
I found it very interesting to note the 3 men named Carty in the passenger list in the following message.
I realize not all of you are descended from a Carty line, but there may be other names you might be familiar with. (I've only quickly scanned the list so far).
JCC
----------
From: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-D-request@[SMTP:LOWER-
> From: Tom Reedy
> To: Shari Handley
> Subject: Ireland to Maryland 1678
> Date: Saturday, January 31, 1998 6:11 PM
> Following is the passenger list for the St. George, a merchant ship that sailed from >Waterford, Ireland to Maryland (don't know what port) in 1677, carrying 180 passengers, >including my ancestor Richard Ready. His descendants settled in what became Sussex >County DE. Does anyone know anything about this ship, or what ports were in use at that >time? I've > already tried the Emigration Ships mailing list.
>
> "Oct. 7 [1677] Portsmouth. Ralegh Hull to Robert Yard. This morning sailed from Spithead > the St. George of London for Waterford and thence for Maryland, wind N. E."
>
> Source: Daniell, F. H. Blackburne, M. A., ed. Calender of State Papers, Domestic Series. >March 1st 1677-February 28 1678 Preserved in the Public Record Office. London: HM >Stationary Office, 1911. Vol. 19, p.393. Shelfmark SP29 397, #18, Public Record Office, >London.
>
> On November 1, 1678, John Quigley, a merchant captain (not the captain of the ship), >appeared before the Secretary of Maryland and applied for land warrants for transporting 180 >settlers into the province on the ship St. George of London. Following is the list of settlers >with the names in the original order. The original spelling is duplicated.
>
> Michaell Delany John Butler Michaell Dormedy Edmd. McMahony
> Charles Quigley Owen Carty Stephen Walton John Power
> Terrance Quigley James Carty Jefry Sweatman Pat Bryan
> Larance Quigley Dennis Carty Luke fitzGerald Thomas Coleman
> Lionell Girlings Daniell Shea John Rogers And. Simons
> Darby Dillan Thomas Shea David Hughes Thos. Owens
> Ebenezer Reed Phillip Welsh Dennis in Craff Margt. Doubin
> Peter James Anthony Coleman Patrick Mely Ann Craford
> Wm. Gregory Sen William Dunn Henry Murphy Jane Warwick
> Thomas Morris Matthew Quigly John Sealy Ann Coburne
> John Hilliard Canice Quigley Austas Quigley Susan Lane
> Peter Coveny Christ. Everit Jane Murphy Dorothy Symot
> Laughlin Dayly Jane Quigley Ann Cantwell Elan Dalton
> George Fingles Cate Quigley Margt. Prince Margaret Haynes
> William Ogan Daniell Quigley Margarett Sulivan Honner Conner
> William Hanagh Jane Shea Wm. Hearbottle Ellin Fanin
> William Coheran Cate Quigley Richard Bonny Honner Coghlin
> John Bise Margt. Quigley Edmond Hallison Honner Bryan
> Hugh Mullin Ellinor Shigins Thos. Weirdlock Cate Dwyer
> Thomas Welsh Denis Costican Teady Meaher Ellen Cavenah
> Robert Dunn Cate Costican Edmond Daniell Margt. Jacob
> James Lane Timothy Leary Richard Maher Mary Kemp
> Samuell Swallow John Delany James Alexander Pat. Bryan
> John Powell William Welsh James Crough Elias Roberts
> Margaret Corban Mary Langam John Luby Fran. Lambseed
> Giles Kelly Ann Preston Walter English Lar. Halandhap
> Cate Cann Mary Ryan John Butler John Burke
> Mary Bryan Jane Butler Garrett Russell Edmd. Crafe
> Jane Welsh Mary Sulivan John Francis Tho. Killam
> Cate fiz Gerald John Baker John Duvall Pat Ryan
> Prisscell Dougin William Baker Edmond Daniell Mary Bary
> Nell Cransbrough Thomas Walker Derby Donoah Ann Screwton
> Christy Varely James Carew Owen Child Jane Barry
> Mary Varely Thomas Screwton Tarty Hogan Margt. Day
> Jenett Varely Mary Screwton David Roach Mary Cavenagh
> Elizabeth Varely John Hawkins Phillip Slattery Pat Wheelan
> John Varely John King Toby Butler John Hargreaves
> Christ. Varely Thomas Nowland David Henderkin Eliz Hargreaves
> James Varely Roger Doelin Jane Giles Tho. fiz Gerald
> Michaell Shea James in Owen Thos. Quigley John Britt
> James Caroll Richard Ready Morris fizGerald Robt Pendergast
> Dennis Brothy John Egan William Simple Gart. Lincoln
> Pat Fannin James O.Cahall Laughlin Eagan Chris. Carwick
> Jane Mascall Peter Mery Thomas Clynton Ellis Welsh
> Anthony Arthur Arthur King Shillam Nowland John Hollam
>
> Captain John Quigley hath appeared before me and made oath upon the Holy Evangelist of >Almighty God that the severall persons within named amounting to the number of one >hundred and eighty were by him imported into this province in the Ship St. George of >London, and that neither himself nor any person for him by his consent privity or knowledge >hath made use of their or any of their rights for taking up of land according to the condition of >plantations. Given under my hand the first day of November anno 1678.
> Thomas Notely
>
> Source: Maryland State Archives. Land Office, Patent Records, Liber 15,
> Folio 553. Annapolis, Maryland: 1678.
>
>
Subj: RE: Checking in...
Date: 98-02-13 22:32:39 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Betty & Ray.
Not much time for a response right now. (Am hoping for more time this weekend--I have 2 1/2 days off!). But for now, I wanted to give you a brief blurb of some topics I would like to either share or discuss with you. Please disregard if the topic line is somewhat ambiguous--some of them were typed very fast, and are meant just as much (if not more) to remind me of what to share with you, as they are to inform you of what I have to share.
Other things/topics to share with you:
1. Carty/McCarty information.
A. estate/admin. papers showing James Carty Sr. to be also known as James McCarty.
B. correspondence between Betty Seymour (hired researcher) & myself, discussing the Cartys in depth.
2. Discussion of "colorism."
3. Copy of Christopher Moore's "My Views" webpage.
4. Manship church: story of plot diagram.
5. Lists of bibliographical sources. (one from thesis...?)
6. Under Cott Bible "Karen Says"...Elsie B. Tuttle, not Elsie F. Tuttle.
7. Other Cott obituaries, land deeds, etc.
Thanks, and I hope to find time to elaborate soon!
Take care,
JCC
P.S. The web page is FANTASTIC, and far, far, FAR more in-depth than anything I had imagined when you first mentioned it. Much to discuss!
----------
From: Charles Earl Seeney[SMTP:seen1@]
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 1998 8:22 PM
To: John C. Carter
Subject: Re: FW: Early Seeney's of Record
John..................
Thanks for the reply. Nothing would please me more than to connect another generation or two to the tree. Maybe some of the others have input.
No, I have not excluded Owen. I was sticking with strictly SEENEY spellings for now. Owen may well lead us to the first family settlers. There remains in family lore that a Seeney was one of the original settlers in MD. That he was with a group that included the brother or cousin of Isaac Newton, the mathematician. That would certainly be a revelation.
Incidentally, I also have the following: Delaware: 1782 Tax Assessment & Census List
Bryan and John Seney Murderkill Hundred 742.
There are a number of See's but no Seeney, Seany, or Seaney.
And the beep goes on
Thanks
Charles Seeney (aka Chuck)
Subj: RE: Unfamiliar E-mail Addresses
Date: 98-02-14 16:25:32 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Betty & Ray:
I will explain each e-mail address below:
JHutton131@: This is Jae (aka Jill) Jackson-Hutton, who was a sort-of "peripheral" member several months or a year ago. I think she became connected to us via Michele, but she never really communicated with the group too much, other than one or two messages to me, and a few to Debbie. She is descended from Jacksons from around the Seaford area of southern DE, but we could not connect her with "our" Jacksons, although there very well may be a connection. I cc her on stuff once in a while, but not always.
SEENEYC@OMRF.omrf.uokhsc.edu: This is Chuck/Charles Seeney, a descendant of Frederick Seeney and Hester Dean of our Deans, and has been somewhat involved from time to time. In fact, I just received a message from him today, which I will forward to you, as it may be of interest. I mentioned him in my message that I sent to you containing my GEDCOM. I identified him as Charles Earl Seeney, pointing out that he was one of our "members" who could be found in my GEDCOM. (He may be using a new e-mail address now. See my comment in the forthcoming message, on which you are cc'd).
hseymour@skipjack.: This is Helen E. "Betty" Seymour, a member of the Upper Shore Genealogical Society of Maryland, and a paid genealogical researcher, who I paid to do some research on the Hardcastles (including some on the Cartys and Wyatts) and Cokers in the Caroline County, MD area, since it is so hard for me to achieve any substantial research due to being so far removed. I will soon be forwarding you most if not all of the correspondence between she and I. I included her on the message as a friendly gesture, in case any of the names were of interest to her. She is not a member of our e-mail group.
MPDak@ & RossM2@: These are Anna Phillips and __________ (unknown), respectively, who were the senders of two queries I recently received (in fact, I haven't even answered the one from RossM2 yet!!) in regard to the Morris family of the Caroline Co area. This is a family I am descended from through my Hardcastle line. I had seen the name Morris in the list and so I included them. They are not members of the e-mail group.
thard@mail.: This is Tom Hardcastle, a distant cousin of mine (and genealogical researcher) through my Hardcastle line, which is actually my "male" line. If my great-grandfather had taken (been given) his (illegitimate) father's name instead of (a corruption of) his mother's, my name would John Hardcastle, not Carter. I included him for the Hardcastle reference in the list. He is not a member of the e-mail group.
Hope this helps! If you have any more questions, let me know!
Take care,
JCC
----------
From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 1998 11:13 AM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: FW: Caroline County Marriages
John,
Are these new members of the group? They were in the header of the message regarding Caroline County marriages. Thanks for sending that. We note with interest Solomon Wilson, who may be Betty's 3ggfather.
In a message dated 98-02-14 07:25:08 EST, you write:
JHutton131@ ('Jackson-Hutton, Jae (JHutton131@)')
SEENEYC@OMRF.omrf.uokhsc.edu ('Seeney, Chuck (Alternate #1)
(SEENEYC@OMRF.omrf.uokhsc.edu)')
hseymour@skipjack. ('Seymour, Betty
(hseymour@skipjack.)')
MPDak@ ('MPDak@'), RossM2@ ('RossM2@')
thard@mail. ('Hardcastle, Tom (thard@mail.)')
B&R
Subj: RE: REVISITING THE MOOR QUESTION
Date: 98-02-24 22:37:16 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: ccc47331@si- ('Counceller, Chuck (ccc47331@si-)')
CC: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
Hi, Chuck (& everyone).
Sorry it has taken me so long to reply to this thread. I now have 71 messages in my inbox, and I'm starting to wonder if I'm ever going to get caught up!
I've seen the couple of other messages in response to yours, and I thought I would share what I have uncovered regarding Donald VanLear Downs' paper, and the English-soldiers-Moorish-women-Tangier-Island theory.
I also received a copy of the paper by Mr. Downs in the mid-1970's, my copy having come from the Delaware Archives (general reference #414).
In 1977, I wrote to the Embassy of Morocco in Washington DC (hey, I was young & full of wishful genealogical thinking back then!), and an Attache of the Embassy replied that although they found the paper to be "of great interest," they referred me to write to the Ministry of Justice in Rabat, Morocco for further inquiry. I did so, but never received a reply. (The Attache from the Embassy did offer the following bit of information, however: "We would like to affirm that we too have had the impression that some people in that part of
Delaware do resemble "Moors" in looks and appear to have some similar traits.")
Thereafter, also in 1977, I wrote to Donald VanLear Downs himself, inquiring if he had done any further research since the original paper. His reply contained the following paragraphs:
"...sorry to relate I have done nothing further than the 'paper' I filed with the Archives of Delaware in Dover in 1960, a copy of which you say was sent you by the Historical Society of Delaware.
"As you read in my paper filed with the Archives the members of the English regiment 'Kirke's Lambs' who left Tangier and brought with them Moorish women, landing on Tangier Island in the Chesapeake Bay and from there went to Kent County and Sussex County in Delaware.
"From my experience in getting such information as I obtained verbally in Tangier and in tracing any written words from the English Archives in Chancery (sp?) Lane, London, I would judge you would not be able to trace your lineage name by name to another country." (tracing "name by name to another country" was something I'd relayed to him as my personal goal.... hey, more wishful genealogical thinking!)
Anyway, by 1987 this issue had continued to nag at my curiosity, and in the fall of that year I hired a researcher in England to attempt to find further documentation of the "Kirke's Lambs incident" and the "defected" troops and/or ship(s). Her initial search of the records turned up nothing supportive, but all avenues were not explored. My budget at the time was somewhat limited, and I delayed further pursuit of this angle.
I would happy to share copies of all of the above noted correspondence to anyone who may be interested. (Debbie, and perhaps Lynn and Harry, may already have these copies from a few years ago). This should prevent anyone from doing any unnecessary duplicate work. Just send me a message and let me know if you'd like copies.
My personal thoughts on this subject, however, were touched upon in my e-mail message to the group dated August 19, 1997. As Mr. Downs mentions in his paper, the then-present (1960) tenant farmer on the "Aspendale" estate (Mr. Downs' residence at the time of the paper's writing), was Lawrence Ridgway, "grandson of Edgar & Em Ridgway who ran
'Aspendale' farm and the great-grandson of John and Mary Morgan who also ran 'Aspendale' farm for many years." Keeping in mind the racial feelings and biases that were present in the late 50's--1960, it is my feeling that perhaps Mr. Downs, either consciously or subconsciously, could have been acting as a benefactor-of-sorts for the mixed-race community (or, at least those in his employ), in his attempt to substantiate the lineage of the mixed bloods as being non-Negro (I would say non-African, but Morocco is on the continent of Africa, after all). This could have been but another attempt to "romanticize" the origin of the mixed bloods.
The theory is certainly interesting, however, and perhaps it warrants further research and study. As Betty & Ray mentioned, all these theories share the lack of documentation.
As a side note: In the book "The Eastern Shore of Virginia 1603-1964" by Nora Miller Turman (1964), it mentions, "When the group of islands including Watts and Tangier were discovered [by Captain John Smith and crew] they were recorded as Russell Isles in honor of Walter Russell, 'doctor of physicke,' in the exploring party." And later in the book, "...the Russell Islands group in Chesapeake Bay which appeared on Captain John Smith's Map of 1608. They were patented and given individual names as early as 1670. However, the
name Tangier did not appear until 1713. It remained under the ownership of two families and was used as a cattle range until after the Revolution."
As a final note: There was an interesting article on Tangier Island in the November 1973 issue of "National Geographic" magazine.
Good luck!
JCC
Subj: RE: Truths from a Cheswold descendent
Date: 98-03-04 22:46:11 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: 104141.3670@ ('Charles R. Martin')
CC: 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'), ('Street,
Hi, Chuck.
I couldn't have said it better myself!
I agree with your suggestion for DNA testing, as I have suggested it myself in the past (as have others). Others downplay its value, however. I doubt a majority would ever agree to it. I certainly would.
I believe that it could be beneficial from the viewpoint of clarifying certain truths and settling certain arguments once and for all, regardless of whether or not it has any bearing on what a person's genealogical goals are, or what they consider themselves to be.
My suggestions, back in October of 1996, as discussed with Ned, Debbie & Lynn, were a part of what started this e-mail group. (Wow, how we've grown since then!) At the time, I had forwarded copies of my August 1996 e-mail conversation with Jean Doble and colleauges of the Human Genome Diversity Project, discussing the possibility of suggesting this to the Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape Indians of NJ.
I will forward the e-mail chain via a separate message. Although I have a pretty good guess, it will be interesting to see what type of response it draws.
JCC
----------
From: Charles R. Martin[SMTP:104141.3670@]
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 2:52 PM
Subject: Truths from a Cheswold descendent
To all:
My name is Chuck Martin. My goal is strictly genealogical. I want to find and prove my ancestral lineage. My reason for joining the group is that I am looking for truths. I have personally met and corresponded with several of you. You have been very helpful and I thank you.
My Cheswold ancestor was Mary Counsellor. She married Ezekiel Walker in Salem New Jersey and moved to Ohio in 1844. I believe I know who Mary's father was but I am not 100% certain. Because of this uncertainty, I have been actively researching and documentating all individuals of the various Counsellor lines for the past five years. My research has shown that all of the present day Counsellors, and all spelling variations thereof, are all of the same lineage. Furthermore, all the various lines point back to the Cheswold area as the locus or origin point.
Having a scientific background, I need proofs. When the documentation doesn't exist, there must be a preponderance of other data that support a most likely conclusion. When this is the case, it should be clearly stated as such. So many times just one piece of information is taken as proof. When in fact, just the opposite point of view could be put forth by a different person.
Genealogy is like a science in that facts lead to conclusions or hypotheses. These in turn, eventually lead to theories and after the test of time theories become laws or truths.
I am especially happy with the amount and quality of information that is being exchanged between most of the members of the group. I can also see from the various comments that there are some diametrically opposed opinions as to the racial makeup of the various Cheswold family groups. This is a good situation. One can read, weigh and analyze the documentation presented and finally form ones own conclusions.
Speaking for my self race if not an issue and I know it isn't an issue with many of you as we have discussed this in the past.
For those of you who are looking for absolute proof of racial makeup, may I suggest you type your own deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) and then compare it with all the other Cheswold descendents. You would have to set up a genetic repository for the group. I will gladly submit my DNA for such a worthwhile purpose. I truely believe the only way this issue of races will
ever be proven, if it can be, will be by DNA testing and analysis.
Let all of us search for the truths.
Chuck Martin
Subj: FW: Human Genome Diversity Project
Date: 98-03-04 22:46:36 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)')
CC: 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'),
Here is the e-mail chain, as mentioned in the previous message.
(Start at the bottom, and work your way upward).
JCC
----------
From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 1996 12:19 AM
To: 'eheite@'
Cc: '74547.41@'; 'cblume6@'; 'JACKLYN001@';
Subject: FW: Human Genome Diversity Project
Ned:
Although you are an archaeologist, not an anthropologist, I thought you might find this of interest, (even though it's a bit lengthy). There are several messages below, so start at the bottom and work your way up in order to follow the continuity. You may particularly be interested in the list of theses I mention pertaining to the Nanticoke/Lenni-Lenape tribe...or have you already heard of all of these references?
I have already forwarded copies of this to Lynn and Debbie, so they may wish to delete this message, although I'm sure they would be interested in any reply you might have.
Also, at the time of these (below) messages, I was under the assumption that Mark Gould was still the tribal chairman of the Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape Indians of New Jersey. However, I have since learned that the current tribal chairman is Kenneth Ridg(e)way, great-grandson of Cornelius Ridg(e)way and descendant of the Cott, Morgan, Coker, Dean, and Pierce families.
Thanks again. JCC
From: Jean Doble[SMTP:jean@charles.Stanford.EDU]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 1996 12:04 PM
To: John C. Carter
Cc: cavalli@lotka.Stanford.EDU; hgreely@leland.Stanford.EDU; moojohn@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu; kmw4@psuvm.psu.edu
Subject: RE: Human Genome Diversity Project
Dear Mr. Carter,
Yes, indeed, Tina Pierce Fragoso is registered as a graduate student in Anthropology. As I recall, I included the "Marie" in all variants of my first search, which would explain my not finding her. (Her e-mail address is tmpierce@leland.stanford.edu.)
Again, your background information is unusually clear and thorough. Knowing how to start is sometimes the hardest part, and you've been of considerable help there.
Since you've sent the details to the North American Committee members, I'm no longer needed as pointer and liaison.
Keep our Web address ( OR ), and check on it periodically. I don't promise to get anything new posted soon, but that will continue to be a good place to look.
Again, we appreciate your interest and your thorough information.
Sincerely,
Jean Doble
____________________________________________________
Jean Doble (415) 723-7518
Assistant Director FAX 5-8244
MORRISON INSTITUTE FOR POPULATION & RESOURCE STUDIES
Gilbert Building 116 Stanford University
Stanford CA 94305-5020
____________________________________________________
From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 1996 10:34 PM
To: 'Jean Doble'
Cc: cavalli@lotka.Stanford.EDU; hgreely@leland.Stanford.EDU; kmw4@psuvm.psu.edu; moojohn@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu
Subject: RE: Human Genome Diversity Project
Dear Ms. Doble:
Thanks very much for your reply.
First of all, regarding Tina Marie Pierce.... I'm not sure if she is still a student at Stanford or not. However, she was married last September, so this may account for your inability to locate her name in the student file. Her married name is Mrs. Ruben C. Fragoso. Last November, the wedding announcement article from her home town area stated that she was a second year graduate student at Stanford at the time. It stated that she had a bachelor of arts degree in anthropology and American studies from Princeton University, and was a candidate pursuing her Ph.D. in anthropology at Stanford, participating in her required teaching year at the time.
As for the Nanticokes/Lenni-Lenapes, I can give you some more information on how to contact someone, but I'm afraid I would not be a suitable choice for a liaison, as I only make it back to the Delaware/New Jersey area on an average of every 5 years or so. You are most welcome to use my name, however, though it will probably be of little influence.
Organizations of the Nanticokes/Lenni-Lenapes have come and gone over the years (there was at one time an organized group in the Millsboro, DE area, and a group was trying to get organized in the Cheswold, DE area a couple of years ago) but a group in the Bridgeton, NJ area has been around for many years and is still organized. (I am myself a member). Their address is as follows:
Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape Indians of New Jersey
18 E. Commerce St.
P.O. Box 544
Bridgeton, NJ 08302
They have a small Indian Center/Museum/Gift Shop/Library located right in Bridgeton, and have recently acquired some land outside of town, with the intention of one day having facilities built there. I believe the Center is still run by either Rose Marie Ridgway or Lorraine Pierce, both distant cousins of mine, with whom I have shared genealogical information in the past. The Tribal Chairman is Mark Gould, whom I have not met.
(Through this New Jersey group, it might be possible to gain information on contact-individuals of the formerly-organized groups of Millsboro and Cheswold).
I would expect that the group as a whole would be most interested in anything that relates in the preserving and/or recognition of their heritage, and I feel the Human Genome Diversity Project certainly qualifies for this.
I wish the best of luck to you and your counterparts, and if there is anything else I can do to help, please let me know.
Thanks again!
John C. Carter
spiff@
St. Petersburg FL
----------
From: Jean Doble[SMTP:jean@charles.Stanford.EDU]
Sent: Monday, August 26, 1996 3:34 PM
To: spiff@
Cc: cavalli@lotka.Stanford.EDU; moojohn@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu; kmw4@psuvm.psu.edu; hgreely@leland.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Human Genome Diversity Project
Dear Mr. Carter,
Thank you for your interest in the Human Genome Diversity Project. Even more, thank you for so carefully laying out the distribution of the Nanticokes and the listing of studies about them. (I can't find Tina Marie Pierce in Stanford's '95/'96 printed directory or in the on-line student file, so we may not be able to locate her.)
The Nanticokes sound like a very good choice for participation in the project. With all your other information, might you know a good contact for the group? Would you serve as liaison to introduce an anthropologist associated with the project to a representative of the Nanticokes?
I am relaying your information to some members of the North American Regional Committee of the HGD Project who I think will be particularly interested in your information.
As for your first questions, the HGD Project has not "progressed" much since early 1994. The stumbling block has for the most part been financial. This fall, the National Science Foundation will award financing for some pilot projects, which we expect to launch collecting under the auspices of the HGDP.
Thank you again for taking the time to write.
Sincerely,
Jean Doble
____________________________________________________
Jean Doble (415) 723-7518
Assistant Director FAX 5-8244
MORRISON INSTITUTE FOR POPULATION & RESOURCE STUDIES
Gilbert Building 116 Stanford University
Stanford CA 94305-5020
____________________________________________________
From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 1996 11:28 PM
To: 'morrison@forsythe.stanford.edu'
Subject: Human Genome Diversity Project
Hello. To introduce myself, my name is John Carter, and I am by no means a "higher learned" student of any of the fields relating to the Human Genome Diversity Project, but merely an interested layman.
Having descended from a "semi-diverse" group of individuals myself, I have an interest in the study of how we all relate together from all the different facets of Humanity.
The FAQ list I have read on the Internet, (located at ), states that it was written in late 1993 and early 1994. I am curious if the HGD Project has progressed any further at this time? Has DNA collection and documentation begun?
The group I am descended from is a unique group of people, now located mostly in three areas: 1). in central Delaware, in and around the town of Cheswold; 2). in southern Delaware, in and around the town of Millsboro; and 3). in southern New Jersey, mostly in and around Bridgeton. However, their origins also include the Eastern Shore area of Maryland, and southeast Pennsylvania. This group of people has been referred to most commonly in the past as "Moors," although the members themselves now often choose to be recognized by the Native American part of their ancestry: Nanticokes, or Lenni-Lenapes.
There have been numerous studies and research done on this group. Among the publications are:
1). Speck, Frank G., (of the Dept. of Anthropology at the University of Pennsylvania): "The Nanticoke and Conoy Indians, with a Review of Linguistic material from Manuscript and Living Sources." 1927, The historical Society of Delaware.
2). Weslager, C. (Clinton) A. (also of the University of Pennsylvania, and a former student of Dr. Speck): "The Nanticoke Indians, a Refugee Tribal Group of Pennsylvania." 1948, The Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission.
3). Weslager, C. (Clinton) A.: "Delaware's Forgotten Folk, the Story of the Moors and Nanticokes." 1943, University of Pennsylvania Press.
4). Speck, Frank G.: "Indians of the Eastern Shore of Maryland." 1922, in conjunction with the Maryland Day Celebration of the Eastern Shore Society of Baltimore City.
5). Weslager, C. (Clinton) A.: "The Nanticoke Indians--Past and Present." 1983, Associated University Presses, Inc.
There have also been theses on the subject:
1). Parker, Mary Braeme: "A Study of the Speech of the Nanticoke Indians of Indian River Hundred, Sussex County, Delaware" (a PhD dissertation). 1953, Louisiana State University.
2). Porter, Frank W., III: "Quest for Identity: the Formation of the Nanticoke Indian Community at Indian River Inlet, Sussex County, Delaware" (a PhD dissertation). 1978, University of Maryland.
3). Boender, Debra Ruth: "Our Fires Have Nearly Gone Out: a History of Indian-White Relations on the Colonial Maryland Frontier, 1633-1776" (a PhD dissertation). 1988, University of New Mexico.
4). Pierce, Tina Marie (currently enrolled--at least, as of a few months ago--as a graduate student at Stanford University): "The Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape Indians: Restoration of a Tribal Identity" (a BA dissertation). 1994, Princeton University.
I cannot help but be curious if such a group as the Nanticokes/Moors would be a suitable choice for the documentation of human genetic variations, as described by the Human Genome Diversity Project...?
If I am directing my inquiry to the wrong source, I would appreciate your advice on whom I should direct my inquiry to.
Many thanks for your time and assistance.
John C. Carter
spiff@
Subj: Bad News
Date: 98-03-06 20:03:29 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
CC: rcbutler@ ('Butler, Rickey (rcbutler@)')
Hello, everyone.
Last night I received a call from a friend in Wilmington, DE, who is a descendant of one of the servants of Castle Hall, the family estate of the Hardcastle family from the late 1700's until around the turn of this century. This historical home is in Caroline County, and anyone who is descended from Hopewell Carter, Sr. (the illegitimate son of Dr. Alexander Hardcastle Sr and Elizabeth Carty) and his wife Sarah Ridgeway will be saddened to hear this
news.
The estate was recently sold, and the new owner is conducting renovations which include the destruction of the family cemetery on the grounds of the estate. Reportedly, tombstones have already been broken into pieces, in the preparation of clearing the area for some type of irrigation work. The president of the Caroline County Historical Society has already issued an angry letter to the new owner, but other plans are in the works for various
descendants and/or historians to try to pay a visit to the new owner, in the hopes of convincing him that there must be other ways to achieve his goals than the destruction of history. Presumably, the destruction of cemeteries is illegal, even if on private property.
I am happy that I was able to visit the cemetery in the fall of 1996, but what of future generations?? This is horrible news. The acres of the estate are immense; the cemetery took up such a small area--I do not see the necessity for its destruction. Now there is worry as to what he will do to the "slave/servant" cemetery, also on the grounds.
Not to belittle the importance of this, but I guess I should have won the lottery sooner, and bought the estate myself!
Just thought I would vent this news....
Sadly,
JCC
Subj: Re: Bad News
Date: 98-03-06 21:15:57 EST
From: eheite@ (Ned Heite)
To: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
CC: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
I believe that it is illegal in Maryland to destroy a cemetery. It is my understanding that it belongs to the descendants of the people buried there, and not to the landowner, but I may be wrong. Has anyone thought to call the Maryland Historical Trust, or the State's Attorney for Caroline County? Since John and several others on the list are descendants, they probably have legal standing. This is a job for a good Maryland lawyer, preferably a junkyard dog.
From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]
Sent: Monday, February 16, 1998 9:12 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Carty & Ridgeway Bibles
John,
Received the copies in fine shape. Thank you. We'll key them into PAF and onto the web page, which, by the way, Ned Heite will be editing. After we sent him the working document we sent to you, he offered. Whew! A load off our minds!
You are very careful with your copying. The Ridgeway Bible notation is very well done, containing the necessary information to answer most of our questions.
We don't know how the Seeneys are connected. There is an entry, "Laura, wife of James Seeney, departed daughter this life Feb 24, 1911 age 44 years 4 months & 23 days" This translates to a birth date of 1 Oct 1866, which pertains to your notation about the date change associated with the birthdate of Laura Ridgeway. But we don't see any other Seeney reference to tie them to the Ridgeway family.
It appears that the Ridgeways lived in Kent County and the Seeneys in Bridgeton.
Parts of the Carty/Wyatt Bible are puzzling. The recorders got carried away with "of the same two," as is noted at one point in the Bible itself. But there is no explanation on the Births page (starting with Samuel Wyatt) for the change in surame at the bottom of the first column: Adeline WYATT, then Susan CARTER and the top of the next column, Mary CARTY, Ann Elizabeth CARTY, etc. What two are their parents?
Comments about your notation regarding the childrens' names: Sarrah Beneter Carty. This may refer to the name "Benita." Mary Gusty -- this looks like Ella Augusty or Augusta
1st page of births: Jankey Wyatt looks more like Fankey Wyatt. Look at how the J in James Wyatt is written, 1st child of William and -ankey Wyatt. Unfortunately, there no other words beginning with capital F could be found.
Can you tell us the relationships of the Wyatts, Ridges, Carneys and Carters?
Thanks for your help. We enjoy working with you.
The Terrys
Subj: RE: Carty & Ridgeway Bibles
Date: 98-03-09 22:22:27 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hello, Ray & Betty.
Following up...
I'm glad you were able to look up some of the relationships in my GEDCOM.
As for some of the questions/comments:
< You are very careful with your copying. The Ridgeway Bible notation is very well done > Thank-you!
< We don't know how the Seeneys are connected >
I'll skip this, since you mentioned you found the connection in the GEDCOM. But if I remember correctly, I remember figuring the Ridgeway Bible must have been in the possession of Laura Ridgeway & James Seeney's family for a while, to explain those entries.
< Parts of the Carty/Wyatt Bible are puzzling >
I agree wholeheartedly!
< 1st page of births: Jankey Wyatt looks more like Fankey Wyatt. Look at how the J in James Wyatt is written, 1st child of William and -ankey Wyatt. Unfortunately, there no other words beginning with capital F could be found >
I agree that the J in James shows a definite difference. However, the more I think about this now, the more inclined I am to say that this name is "Darkey" Wyatt. (Compare the loop of the little "d" in "daughter.") Not necessarily as any reference to skin color, but a nickname for Dorcus, which I've seen somewhere in the Delaware families before.
< Can you tell us the relationships of the Wyatts, Ridges, Carneys and Carters? >
You've probably figured out a lot of this from the GEDCOM. As for the Ridges, I have absolutely no idea how they connect, (nor the Budds), nor have I ever seen the names referenced anywhere else. Elizabeth Wyatt was apparently the common-law wife of William Carty. (She was the one referred to by Napoleon Morgan in Weslager's "Forgotten Folk" as being a "full-blood Indian.") The William Wyatt and John Wyatt referenced were undoubtably her brothers. When I get around to forwarding you my Carty-Wyatt hired-research correspondence, it will give you a better idea. (Soon!) The only connection with the Carneys I see is the marriage of Mary Jane Carty/Carter to Shary (Sharry/Sherry/Shadrach Sr) Carney. (who happen to be the ancestors of new member Preston Sammons). I haven't figured out yet how Mary Jane is connected to the other Cartys/Carters, but she may be a niece of William Carty, perhaps by his brother James. Just guessing....
Well, that's all for now.
Take care,
JCC
Subj: RE Harry's response to: [Fwd: Handsor of DE]
Date: 98-03-14 07:55:25 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: bugs@ (bugs@)
CC: 104141.3670@ (104141.3670@),
Hi, again.
Just a note regarding the Okea....
I agree there is no definite proof of such, but just for information's sake, I think where Bryan is getting the Okea name for Jemina is from Angelina Munson Dean's (Robert & Jemina's daughter) death certificate. On this certificate it lists the father's name as "Robert Munson" and mother's name as "Jamima Okea." The certificate's informant seems to be (very hard to read my copy) "J.F. Charlesworth." of Bridgeton, New Jersey (Jemina's place of death).
(Charlesworth's first two initials might be wrong, but the last name is fairly readable).
JCC
-----
From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]
Sent: Friday, March 13, 1998 2:13 PM
To: bugs@
Cc: eheite@; rneil@mail.; lheite@eldhorn.is; LFREIDA15@;
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Handsor of DE]
Bryan
There are only evidences and no proof that Robert Munce I was married to a Margaret. Robert Munce II was married to Ann Jemina Hansor. I have their marriage bond. Their son James H. Munce stated his parents were Robert and Ann Jemina Munce on his marriage record. I have seen no proof of an Okea connection to Jemina Hansor. What is the proof that she was the daughter of Nehemiah Hansor Jr.?
HAM
--------------------------------------
FLOYD HANDSOR wrote:
>
> Hi to all,
>
> Hope that I have not left anybody out of this, just too hot to sit on.
>
> Beyond a doubt, we have another cousin that has found us. Please hit the cc: key as this continues. There is so much to share.
>
> Got to run, but please include me in the exchanges with each other.
>
> FLOYD HANDSOR
> 5835 MEMPHIS ST.
> COLUMBUS, GA. 31907
> >
> Bryan Huneycutt wrote:
> >
> > Hello Floyd,
> >
> > I saw your Handsor entry in the Sussex Co. , DE queries. My Handsors were nearby in Kent Co., but many of the associated families were also in Sussex. I have some related notes as follows:
> >
> > Robert Munce Jr ,the son of Robert and Margaret Munce, was born in 1810 in Delaware, and he married Jamima Okea Hansor. Jemima Handsor was the daughter of Nehemiah Handsor Jr., who was listed in the 1799 Delaware tax list. Nehemiah was the son of Nehemiah Sr and Johannah. Nehemiah Sr was in the Delaware 1739 tax list; he died in 1785. Nehemiah Sr was the son of William Handsor Sr. and his wife Mary. William Handsor settled in Delaware in 1735, with a patent dated in 1737; he died in 1767.
> >
> > I'm not sure whether these are the same Handsors as yours or not, but I would exchange information if it would be useful to you.
Subj: RE: MORRIS
Date: 98-03-20 02:29:12 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: jdale@ ('jdale@')
CC: 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'),
Hi, Richard.
I greatly apologize for taking so long to respond to your inquiry regarding the Morris name in Kent County, DE.
It's interesting that you contacted me, since, even though my particular Morris line (a paternal line of mine) is actually from Maryland, most of my paternal lines are actually from Kent County, Delaware, and I am aware of a Morris line there. However, I don't know much about it.
The oldest member of this particular Kent County Morris line that I know of was Robert Morris, born ca. 1838, and he had a brother named William. Robert married Julia Clark, and their children were:
1. Carlos
2. George
3. Oscar Burton
4. Emma
5. Clara Preston
6. Stephen
7. Anna
8. Mary Agnes
This is basically all I know of the older members of this family. Are any of these names familiar to you?
I am cc'ing a few others who might be able to recognize the names you mention. (One person cc'd--carolmcj@--was from your original inquiry).
Good luck with your search!
Thanks.
John C. Carter
St. Petersburg, FL
spiff@
----------
From: jdale@[SMTP:jdale@]
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 1998 9:15 PM
To: spiff@
Cc: carolmcj@
Subject: MORRIS
I am looking for information on Willliam MORRIS I of Kent County, Delaware, and his wife Sarah TRIPPETT. William had at least four children - William II, Absalom, Samuel, and Joseph. I show William II had a son William III who married (1) Ann Joy and (2) Martha. William III and Martha had (1) Thomas, (2) Daniel, (3) Elizabeth, (4) Hannah, and (5) William.
Elizabeth married Benedic ANDERSON.
`Richard Dale, 704 Ponca Drive, Independence MO 64056-2053, (816) 796-3357
Subj: RE: Carney Bible
Date: 98-03-22 23:10:32 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)')
CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), psam@ ('Sammons, Preston L. (psam@)')
Hi, Lorraine.
I hate to tell you this, but I'm afraid I have a few more questions....:-)
(I'm cc'ing Preston Sammons on this message, in case he recognizes the Sammons connections).
I sat down to enter all the info into my computer, but am having a hard time figuring out who all these people are.
# 1. Of course, I know who #1 Robert Carney was.
# 2. Mary Carney Sammons. I have no idea who this is.
# 3. Edward Carney. I have no idea who this is.
# 4. Elmira Dean. I have no idea who this is. (Unless it is the Almira
______ who was married to Robert B. Dean, Jr., son of Robert Dean and
Catherine Morgan Dean...?)
# 5. "Aunt Blanch states that her sisters were..."
(First of all, I don't know who this Blanch Sammons Carney is, either).
1. Prudence Sammons m. Timothy Owens. I'd not heard of Prudence, but I had heard of Timothy--son of Caleb Owens & Litisha Johnson Owens. (Mary Agnes Morris Cuyjet had given me some Owens family info).
2. Lillie Mae Sammons m. William Coker. I've heard of them, but never knew who Lillie Mae's parents were. By the way, you said that Blanch (?) said that Lillie Mae died 1981, but her tombstone in Immanuel Union/Manship states she died 09 Nov 1972.
3. Sarah Sammons m. Norman Frame. Never heard of either of them.
So, according to your message, these 4 daughters, Blanch, Prudence, Lillie Mae, and Sarah, were all children of Gilbert Sammons and Anna Rose Mathews Sammons. How does this Gilbert Sammons tie into the other Cheswold Sammons'?
(Preston: The names of Prudence, Lillie Mae, & Sarah all sound very much like the daughters of Edward & Annie Sammons, but your charts don't show them having a sister named Blanch. Also, it's strange that Blanch says her father's name was Gilbert, and the Prudence Lillie Mary & Sarah who were Edward's daughters had a BROTHER named Gilbert. Seems like there's a connection in here somewhere...)
And, I'm not sure who any of the Carneys are, other than Robert. I hope you can answer these questions when you have time. I'm sorry I'm still confused...
Thanks again for all your help. --JCC
----------
From: LFREIDA 15[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 11:09 PM
To: John C. Carter
Cc: AquaBetty@
Subject: re:Carney Bible
Hi John:
I see why you are confused, I'll try to clear up your questions:
I copied tthis information out of the Joe and Mary Dean Carney Bible , Rose also read the information and we taped it in case I missed something and for extra insurance. #! I completely omitted the b date for Robert Carney ( When Rose read it she clearly states b and d dates. # 2 on the tape we had a discussion about the year of death) I wrote 1929 as yr of death. #3 Edward Carney Rose clearly states Jan as the birth month. ( I wrote Jun as b date) #4
Elmira Dean d April 6 1930 (just the date) in the Joe & Mary Dean CarneyBible.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#5 And on down
I didn' t write any of this information down
This information from Aunt Blanche's Personal Bible and her personal knowledge of her family she was holding her Bible , read the different dates and injected other information , she let us look but did not let us have her Bible so we could write it down. This is all on the same tape.
I have some other information on Aunt Blanches Family from my Mother's papers and other family members have to locate paper file if there is any thing in there I think may be helpful to you I will forward later.
lorraine
----------
From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 1998 8:06 AM
To: 'LFREIDA 15'
Cc: AquaBetty@
Subject: RE: Carney Bible
Hi, Lorraine.
Thanks very much for the information! I haven't gone through it in detail yet, but I did have a couple of questions:
You mention that all this information came from a tape, but the title of your message was "Carney Bible." Did the information on the tape come from the Bible? In other words, was Aunt Blanch reading the family records from the Bible? You said Aunt Blanch had her own Bible (which she wouldn't let you copy), but that you were thankful to get to copy the Carney Bible. I just wasn't sure if the information below came FROM the Carney Bible, or whether you still have that info separate.
Thanks again!
JCC
----------
From: LFREIDA 15[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]
Sent: Monday, March 16, 1998 2:42 PM
To: JOHN C. Carter
Cc: AquaBetty@
Subject: re:Carney Bible
Hi John:
The day we spent with Aunt Blanch Sammons Carney , we made a tape. I had forgotten all about that until last nite I came across a note I had written. I have played this tape about 10 times today and got some information that might be helpful to you. I'll try to type this in an orderly way.
Tape # 1 Robert Carney b Aug 13, 1815 - d Jan 18 1889.
# 2 Mary Carney Sammons ( we had a question on the tape about the yr of death) It could have been September 12, 1929 or September 12, 1939 .
#3 Edward Carney b June 25 1883 ( on the tape it''s Jan 25 1883) that confirms what Doris Victoria Carney had given me --so I think I had given you June- please change--to Jan 25 1883, as correct birthday.
#4 Elmira Dean d April 6, 1930 ( Aunt Blanche states that Elmira was a cousin of Anna Rose Mathews Sammons who was Aunt Blanches mother, and she said, that Gilbert Sammons was her father.
#5 Aunt Blanch states that her sisters were:
1 Prudence (Prudie) Sammons M Timothy Owens -they lived in MD and they had a dau and a son William (Billy )Owens, who died after 1977, the baby daughter was in a house fire and died the same day Aunt Blanche's grandmother was buried.
She didn't say who her grandmother was.
2 Lillie Mae Sammons m William Coker and they had a son Stanley Coker, Lillie Mae died 1981(thats all she says about them)
3 Sarah (Sadie) Sammons m Norman Frame, and they were m 1924
Then she states that her name is Blanch Dorothy Sammons m Wm Dawson Carney April 10, 1921. That her mother Anna Rose Mathews Sammons died 1941 and that her father Gilbert Sammons died 1944 and that her father always called her mother Rose. She mentions a bother Gilbert, but didn't give us any information about him
Aunt Blanch also had her own Bible but she really didn't want us to copy anything out of it, we asked her several times and finally we just dropped it.- we were really thankful she let us copy the Carney Bible which she said she found in the attic and didn't know it was there until a few years ago.
When I first started this I was just interested in getting our family information and a lot of times if I didn't know who someone was I Just didn't think about it much , but this has turned in to a vicious circle with everybody tying in to each other, it's amazing. I'm going to try to cc this to AquaBetty( I haven"t tried that yet) Hope this helps
Lorraine
Subj: FW: Morgans, Deans & Munces, etc.
Date: 98-03-22 23:10:49 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: psam@ ('Sammons, Preston L. (psam@)')
CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)')
Hello.
In regard to the Elizabeth Munce's (mentioned in the previous message), see # 7 below. (If you peek at the other stuff, keep in mind that this message is a year old. Some stuff may have been updated since then). Thanks! JCC
----------
From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 1997 12:41 AM
To: 'Jan Jackson'; 'Michele Pierce'
Cc: 'Debbie Unger'; 'MayBelle & Sandy Bordley'; 'Floyd Handsor'; CBlume6@; 'Ned Heite'; 'Lynn Jackson'; lheite@eldhorn.is
Subject: RE: Morgans, Deans & Munces, etc.
Greetings, everyone!
First of all, regarding the Deans, Lynn Jackson is currently working on a marvelous paper which outlines a huge amount of their history. I have added comments and returned it to her today via snail mail, so she will probably have it updated in the near future, and will certainly be sharing it with everyone soon. Meanwhile, I will try to sort out some of the discrepancies of the Deans and others that Michele mentioned in her message below this one. (Much of my Dean info came from Lynn originally, so I give lots of credit to her!)
OK, here goes:
1). Robert Dean's (1830-1874) mother was Hester Ann Carney, daughter of Thomas Carney. (Can't find the source of this at the moment, but perhaps will by the time I finish this email, otherwise Lynn should be able to supply). Perhaps some confusion results from the fact that Robert's father Jesse Dean ("the 2nd") was married twice: first to ESTHER Councilor (on 29 Aug 1814), by whom he had 2 children, a boy & a girl...and secondly to Hester Ann CARNEY. Esther had died by 1820, and Jesse married Hester by 1830.
2). Catherine Morgan Dean died 23 May 1894, not 1891. If you are looking at a photograph, the 4 looks like a 1 (similar situation to the "4" in Robert Dean's birthdate on his stone).
3). Robert & Catherine DID have two children who were named Annie and Hester, but there were MORE than two:
Mary Ann Dean (1853-1923) m. Moses Coker (my great-great-grandparents, and Lynn's great-grandparents)
John T. Dean (1856- )
Lucinda Dean (1857- d. bef. 1878) m. William Johnson
Jesse Dean III (1858- )
Robert B. Dean (Jr) (1860- ) m. Almira ______
William Dean (1864- ) m. #2 Dorcus Pierce
Hester (1868- ) m. Frederick Seeney
Annie (1869- ) m. Charles Mosely
Ulysses S. Grant Dean (b. bef. 1876- )
The children's names can be substantiated in the 1860 Kent County (Little Creek) census (family/dwelling #1117/1108), the 1870 Kent County census (#364/359), and Orphans Court records pertaining to the deaths of Jesse the 2nd and Robert.
4). According to the recent Dean draft from Lynn, Catherine Morgan Dean Carney (she remarried to William Carney after the death of Robert) was the daughter of a John Morgan, but she does not list John's wife. (Lynn: you should add this to your paper). Looking back in my Morgan file I do indeed see that John's wife was Mary Ann Coker Morgan, sister of the Moses Coker who married Mary Ann Dean. ---- Wait a minute! Something's wrong here...!
First of all, if Mary Ann Coker Morgan was Catherine's mother, then that would mean that Mary Ann Dean married her own great-uncle, but it's impossible anyway, because Mary Ann Coker Morgan was born in 1844, and Catherine was born in 1833! Either there are TWO John Morgans--one who married Mary Ann Coker and one who was Catherine's father--or else
Catherine's father was NOT John Morgan. -- (Just did a quick check and there are at least THREE different John Morgans in Kent County in the early-to-mid 1800's).
[ By the way, here's a tidbit: If anyone looks at Mary Ann Coker Morgan's death certificate, DON'T BE FOOLED by the fact that it lists her parents as JOHN Coker and Eliza Jackson. This should be JAMES Coker, not John ].
5). How can Robert B. Dean be the "son of Jesse Dean d. ca. 1818" when Robert wasn't even BORN until 1830?
Again, MUCH information on the Deans will be available as soon as Lynn completes her next update on the Dean paper. (Lynn: How's that for putting pressure on you?) :-}
6). Thanks for the info on Nehemiah & Benjamin Sammons!
7). Now on to the Munces: I'm confused on this one (!) I thought we were talking about the Elizabeths, not the Lydias. Yes, I agree that Robert Jr's daughter Lydia Munce married Benjamin Sammons, and Isaiah/Zaddock's daughter Lydia Muntz married Jeremiah Durham. The problem is: Which ELIZABETH Munce was the wife of NEHEMIAH Sammons? Robert Jr's daughter Mary Elizabeth, who was born 08 Sep 1841? Or Isaiah/Zaddock's daughter Elizabeth, who was born 14 Jan 1864?
Harry Muncey lists Nehemiah's wife as the older Elizabeth (Robert Jr's daughter).
My info from Pinky Coker (great-granddaughter of Nehemiah) lists Nehemiah's wife as the younger Elizabeth (Isaiah/Zaddock's daughter).
The more I look at this, the more I tend to think there's a problem in my records for Pinky's line. Especially if Nehemiah was born in 1840; this would make him more "likely" to be marrying someone who was born in 1841, not 1864. Also, with there being a marriage record of a Robert B. Sammons marrying a "Lizzie" Muncy on 28 April 1883, this would seem to possibly be the younger Elizabeth, born 1864.
Does anyone have a family group sheet of Nehemiah's & Elizabeth's children? If we look at the birth years of the children, it might tell whether or not it was possible/impossible for the 1864 Elizabeth to be their mother.
Again, WHEW!! Not sure how much longer I can keep up with these LONG responses!
Michele, Jan, and everyone: let me know of any rebuttals or other info.
Thanks! --JCC
----------
From: MPierce96@[SMTP:MPierce96@]
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 1997 3:49 PM
To: spiff@; eheite@
Cc: 74547.41@; belle25@; bugs@; CBlume6@; JACKLYN001@; jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu; lheite@eldhorn.is
Subject: Re: Morris', Deans & Munces, etc.
John, Jan and Everyone,
John and Jan thank you for the info you sent it was GREAT. Aunt Mary Agnes is the sister of Mike's Grandfather Alfred Morris, she is the one who told the story of her mother's family Sarah Edith Owens Morris coming to Delaware from the DE. Water Gap. (Isnt the Gap In PA????)
The story of Julia Clarks mother is one I have not heard, thanks.
John and Jan both sent me information but there is one thing that they differ on.
John: Robert Deans parents were Jesse Dean 2nd & Hester Ann Carney Dean
Jan: Robert B. Dean & Catherine Morgan b 27 Dec 1833 d.23 May 1891, had 2 children Annie Dean 1870-1963 m Charles Mosley; Hester Dean d.1868 m Fredrick Seeney; Catherine Morgan Dean d/o John H. Morgan and Mary A. Coker; Robert B Dean s/o Jesse Dean d. ca 1818 and Hester Concealor.
Any more info on this??????
John, I called Sweetie and she said that yes that Nehemiah and Benjamin Sammons were brothers. She also said that, Lydia, Mary Elizabeth and Isaiah/Zaddock were the children of Robert and Jemina Munce. Lydia, Zaddock's sister m. Benjamin Sammons and Zaddocks daughter Lydia m. Jerimiah Durham. (Hope I got is right). She said you are mixing up the two Lydia's.
Floyd thank you for such a kind letter. Also will be waiting for the other's family lines
Michele
Subj: Follow-up to: Morgans, Deans & Munces, etc.
Date: 98-03-22 23:10:59 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: psam@ ('Sammons, Preston L. (psam@)')
CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)')
Hello, again.
Here's a last bit of follow-up regarding the Munce's. (Also from one year ago). Here's that Blanch name again....same person? My brain is too fried to figure it out. I've been inputting this stuff since about 10am--it's now 11pm. Whew!
JCC
----------
From: MAYBELLE BORDLEY[SMTP:belle25@]
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 1997 12:26 PM
To: spiff@
Cc: jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu; "'Michele Pierce'"@; MPierce96@;
Subject: Re: Morgans, Deans & Munces, etc.
Hi!
Maybe this will clarify John's question in his point 7.)
Blanche may be the key to finding which Elizabeth Munce is which?
My Aunt Carrie, daughter of Jeremiah Durham and Lydia Munce wrote out a list for me of the children of her maternal grandparents, Isaih Munce and Elmira Carter.
She named:
Elizabeth(born 1/13/1864) married _______ Sammons
they had a daughter Blanche
I can't find any further mention of Blanche and all of that generation of the family are dead.
Obtained the birthdate of Elizabeth from her father's application for a GAR pension after the Civil War.
MAYBELLE BORDLEY
Subj: Sammons/Carney Chart(s) Discrepancies
Date: 98-03-22 23:11:02 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: psam@ ('Sammons, Preston L. (psam@)')
Hi, Preston.
How is everything?
(I'm cc'ing Lorraine, as well as Betty & Ray, since they may be
interested in this material as well).
Finally got around this weekend to input all of the material you sent on your charts, and had a few clarification questions....
1. John K. Carney, son of Shary Carney: Your chart has his birthdate as 1854, but the Carty-Wyatt Bible lists his birthdate as 14 Oct 1851. What do you make of the discrepancy?
2. Children of Shary Carney & Mary Jane Carter: Your chart lists children Sarah, John, William, Mary Elizabeth, Louisa, & Shedrick. My records showed that Shedrick had a sister Caroline, b. ca. 1858, who m. Daniel Durham. (I can't immediately locate the source). Do you have any records of Caroline?
3. First spouse of Walter Sherman Carney, son of Walter Carney & Alice Coward: You have Walter's first spouse's name as "Billy Felmay"... Just wanted to make sure this was correct, as it looked like a man's spelling of "Billy."
4. Raymond Ridgeway, spouse of Rose Marie Munson: You show his nickname as "Jimmy," but I have his nickname listed as "Flicker." Does he have two nicknames?
5. (Not a discrepancy--just fyi) Matthew Wade Sammons, Jr.: Not sure if you knew, he just passed away about a month or so ago. He was only about 10 years old.
6. Allison Lindsay Coker, daughter of Roland James ("Pete") Coker: You have her accidentally listed in two places: You have her as Allison Lindsay Muntz, dau. of Elaine Coker (Roland's sister), and as Allison Lindsay Coker, dau. of Roland. These are both the same person, and she is Roland's daughter, not Elaine's.
7. Benjamin Sammons, son of Isaac Sammons, Sr.: I'm curious how you know he was born in Sussex County. Seems odd (but not impossible, of course) that Benjamin would be born in Sussex in 1837, then brother Nehemiah would be born in Kent Co in 1840, then sister Hester would be born back in Sussex in 1842. Was the family moving back & forth?
8. Susan Munce, daughter of Benjamin Sammons: You have her birth year as 1857, but I had 1867. (Mine could be wrong).
9. Minnie Munce, daughter of Benjamin Sammons: You have her birth date as 15 Sep 1856, but I had her birth year as 1864. (Mine could be wrong).
10. True spouse of Nehemiah Sammons, son of Isaac, Sr.: You have Nehemiah's wife as being Mary Elizabeth Munce, 08 Sep 1841--08 Nov 1914. I have this Mary Eliz. in my records (I never had her death date, though), and show that she was a daughter of Robert Jr. & Jemina Munce. However, I don't show her being married to Nehemiah. I have Nehemiah's wife as Elizabeth Munce/Muntz, 14 Jan 1864--08 Nov 1924. (Strange, that both have a death
date of 08 Nov, but 10 years apart). Anyway, some of this could be my error, or the error of whom I got my data from. Seems like I remember a discussion in our e-mail group last year about the confusion between these women. I'll try to dig it up. (Just found it, and will forward it to you after this). It would make more sense, age-wise, for "your" Mary Eliz. to be Nehemiah's spouse, rather than a woman 24 years his junior. I think I'm going to go ahead and change my FTM to show the older (b. 1841) one as Nehemiah's wife.
11. George Whittleton Sammons, son of John Sammons, Sr.: You have his & his wife's birth year as 1871, but you have their three children's birth years as 1883, 1885, & 1886. This would mean that George & wife started having children when they were 12 years old. (In fact, if you include the month of George's birth, and the month of the oldest child's birth, George would have been only 11 years old).
12. Lydia Mary Coward, daughter of Samuel P. Coward & Minnie Sammons: You have Lydia's death date as 04 Oct 1959, but my records had 11 Oct (with no year). Not sure of my source, but suspect it came from Rose "Sweetsie" Ridgeway, since this is her line.
13. Barbara Ellen Morris, daughter of Edith Gertrude Sammons Morris: You have her birth date as 09 May 1933, but my records had 07 May 1933. My data is per an e-mail message from Michele Pierce (Edith's daughter-in-law), dated 20 Feb 1997.
14. Francis Fredrick Pierce, husband of Barbara, above: You have his birth date as 01 Jan 1930, but my records had 01 Jan 1932. Also, I had his name as Fredrick F. Pierce. Again, this is per Michele's e-mail message of 20 Feb 1997.
15. George Morris, son of Edith Gertrude Sammons & Alfred Napoleon Morris: You have this George Morris married to Lydia Anne Mosely. My records also have a George Morris married to Lydia Anne Mosely, but I show that George Morris to be the son of Robert Morris & Julia Clark (grandparents of Alfred). Are there indeed two George Morris'? If so, the one I show married to Lydia is the grand-uncle of the one you show married to Lydia. Which one really married Lydia Anne Mosely? (For the record, previous to receiving your
charts, my records showed 8 children for Edith & Alfred. Your chart shows 10 children, with the extras being this George, along with Edward).
16. Annie B. Copeland, daughter of Prudence Sammons Copeland: You have her birth year as 1774, when I think you mean 1874. (Her mother & father were born in 1856 & 1852).
17. Lydia Sammons, daughter of Isaac Sammons, Sr.: You have her noted as "Died as a child," but you have her spouse listed as "? Brisker."
And one final question, out of curiosity...
After completing the entry of all your data into my FTM, I ran the kinship option to show how you & I might be connected. I remember you had mentioned in a message to me a while back (after you received my GEDCOM), that we were 5th cousins. However, my FTM does not yet show a connection between you & I (although I know there is one. Just need to establish how your Shary Carney was connected to my Robert Carney, and how your Mary Jane Carty was connected to my Elizabeth Carty). But I'm curious: how did your program arrive at the conclusion that you and I are 5th cousins? Through what family line is it basing this conclusion?
Well, that's all for now. Sorry to boggle your brain with so much at once, but I thought I'd best list it all down, while I was going through the task of entering your data. Otherwise, I'd never remember it all...!
Take care,
JCC
Subj: RE: Concealor - Dean
Date: 98-03-29 22:42:32 EST
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
Hi, Chuck & Lynn.
Chuck: I am forwarding this message to Lynn Jackson, because I cannot tell from the way you have your recipients set-up whether or not she was included in the original distribution. As you can see below, all of your addressees appear to us as "unknown."
Lynn has done a lot of pondering herself on the phrase you mentioned:
-----
I was very perplexed about Jesse Dean's comment in his 1839 will that " I give to Elijah Concealer the pieced bed quilt upstairs which was made by his mother my last wife."
-----
To be honest, my brain is so boggled by the whole Jesse Dean mess, that I don't think I would be able to think rationally about it, without the aid of a week's vacation ahead-of-time or a couple of shots of moonshine, whichever is more readily available.
However, I thought I would just make sure that your thoughts were passed along to Lynn, in case she is more mentally prepared to make insightful comments.
Thanks!
JCC
----------
From: Charles R. Martin[SMTP:104141.3670@]
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 1998 4:48 PM
Subject: Concealor - Dean
Dear Betty, Ray and members of the group:
If I have left someone off the list that should be included, please let me know.
Marie and I have recently returned from our trip to Dover, DE and Salem, NJ. I want you to know the Michael Concealer tombstone that had been face down on the Edward Counsellor lot in Manship cemetery has been reset by Marie and I and it is standing tall for all to read.
Prior to the trip, I had been studying the Dean genealogy "Some Descendants of James Dean and his wife Sarah Hewes" by Betty and Ray Terry. I was unable to connect my line with this group of Deans.
I was very perplexed about Jesse Dean's comment in his 1839 will that " I give to Elijah Concealer the pieced bed quilt upstairs which was made by his mother my last wife." This bothered me so much that I had to examine the original and this I did. In the will there is no other mention of his last wife and there is no surviving spouse mentioned or even referred to in
an indirect manner. This means that his last wife had preceeded him in death and she had died prior to 1839.
I know that excellent documentation exists for the Elijah Counsellor family line that lived in and around Cheswold. I reexamined my data for this group of Counsellors and have come to the following conclusions.
I believe the Elijah Concealer referred to in Jesse Dean's will of 1839 is the son of Jeremiah (d 1811) and Elizabeth (unknown) Concealer. Elizabeth (unknown) married 1st Jeremiah Concealer (d 1811), 2nd she married Elijah Concealer (d 1825) who was a brother to Jeremiah, and 3rd she married Jesse Dean (d 1839).
I have no reference data on which I can base or conclude anything about the first two marriages of Jesse to 1) Elizabeth Durham and 2) Rebecca (unknown). Assuming these are correct then the Jesse who died in 1839 married three times: 1st Elizabeth Durham, 2nd Rebecca (unknown) and 3rd Elizabeth (unknown) Concealer Concealer. Elizabeth (unknown) also marries three times: 1st Jeremiah Concealer, 2nd Elijah Concealor and 3rd Jesse
Dean.
The Ester (Hester) Concealer who married Jesse Dean on 29 Aug 1814 is a daughter of Jeremiah (d 1811) and Elizabeth. This Jesse dies ca 1815-16 and Ester marries Elisha Durham. This Ester (Hester) can not be the wife of the Jesse Dean who died in1839. According to Ned Heite and I have no reason to doubt Ned, there are four Jesse Deans alive during the time
period of our interest. Maybe someone can straighten us out on the Jesses.
To all in the group, please feel free to make any comments, corrections or suggestions to any of the items I have discussed or proposed.
Chuck Martin
Subj: RE: SIMONS / Peregrine Handsor
Date: 98-04-05 20:05:48 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: bugs@ (bugs@), eheite@ ('Ned Heite')
Hello.
Am I correct in interpreting Ned's comment below ("like your record of Peregrine Handsor, which gave us an age and a wife and other details, it is a piece of cake to nail them down in the Delaware records") to mean that we've finally established a specific connection between Floyd's (Canadian) Handsor branch and the Delaware Handsors???
If so, this is news to me. If so, what is the connection?? Inquiring minds want to know!
Thanks! JCC
----------
From: Ned Heite[SMTP:eheite@]
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 1998 8:22 PM
To: bugs@
Cc: Preston L. Sammons; WyNot22@; AquaBetty@;
Subject: Re: Prudence SIMONS
FLOYD:
Can you post the vital statistics (age, etc., marriage and whatever) on the Benjamin SIMONS you mention? If he was born in Delaware, we may be able to find him and his ancestors.
I keep repeating, if the folks in Canada have records like your record of Peregrine Handsor, which gave us an age and a wife and other details, it is a piece of cake to nail them down in the Delaware records.
So send us Benjamin and shake the family tree real hard. This Canadian migration is interesting.
At 6:36 PM 4/5/1998, FLOYD HANDSOR wrote two letters:
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Chuck, Would you please send me a copy of the documentation that you have mentioned in your last post ref Benjamin Simons.
>
> I have a cousin in Canada that is trying to see if he was buried there... We tend to believe that he left Delaware along with his daughter and son in law, and was laid to rest in Canada... Do we have anybody in the group with info on his burial place???
>
> To work the name Simons in Canada, (or anyplace else) is a total joke, as nobody will talk. Mine want to keep some kind of a secret I guess... Don't know what it is, but I sure wish they would share it with me. If somebody out there knows what it is, please let me know, and I promise that I will not tell anybody else... :-)
>
> I have no problem with how the name is spelled, or pronounced, it is the same family... We know it to be SIMONS, but supposedly it started out being Salmon-Sammons... I come from Hanzer...??? Who could really spell back then??? I ain't too good at it today.
>
> With love to all,
>
>Floyd
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Hi to all,
>
> Just needed to forward this, as Preston has mail problems.
>
>Floyd
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Preston L. Sammons wrote:
>>
>> Floyd
>> I sent a response to Maybelle & Sandy, but the response I sent, bounced. Could you pass on my e-mail message to M & S. Also, I'm envious about the reunion you will be attending. Wish I could be there. Yesterday, I started to look into census records of other states. I
>> found SAMMONS in Michigan, Virginia, North Carolina, Kentucky and Maryland. I'm off work next week. I'll be doing lots of research.
>>
>> Thanks, Preston
>>
>> Maybelle & Sandy
>>
>> Thank-you for corresponding.
>> It was a common practice for some SAMMONS folk to leave Delaware and change
>> their surname to SIMONS. In this case Benjamin Sr. and some of his family moved north, possibly through Michigan and eventually to Ontario, Canada. There is said to be many SAMMONS/SIMONS in the Detroit/Ann Arbor,Michigan area as well as across the bridge in Ontario. I would be very interested to learn about any SAMMONS/SIMONS folk that
you are aware of. Yesterday, I started to look at Michigan census index records looking for relatives.
>>
>> Preston L. SAMMONS
>>
>> MAYBELLE BORDLEY wrote:
>>
>> > Edward Conceilor and Prudence Simons Conceilor were the parents of my maternal grandmother Annie Conceilor Loatman. Benjamin Simons was Prudy's brother. If the name Simons was ever Sammons it was known and prounounced as Simons in the family.
>> > Benjamin Simons went to Michigan to join other Simons brothers who had migrated to that area. Moreover, I met one of the Michigan Simons when she came to visit her Delaware/ Jersey kin, Prudence Simons called Cousin Prudy. I was a little girl but I remember Cousin Prudy because she was dressed in formal mourning and told us to call her "Cousin Prudy" I was too young to ask any questions and my grandmother Loatman was too stern to allow a
>> child to quiz an adult. We did question my mother and aunts later. They didn't know any more about Prudy and her branch of the family than I picked up listening. My Simons relatives may have once been Sammons but I have no indication that this is the case. It is not the case that they left Delaware as Sammons and appeared in Michigan as Simons. Benjamin and his siblings were Simons in Delaware
>> > too. MBB
>> >
>> >
>> > MAYBELLE & SANDY BORDLEY
>> >
Subj: RE: Mitsawokett
Date: 98-04-14 18:49:02 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty')
Hi, Betty & Ray.
Sorry to hear about the difficulties of tying the information to a web site. But you two have done phenomenal work nonetheless, and should be very proud!
I'm afraid I know nothing of HTML, despite my desire to, and am unable to assist. Anything else I can do to help, though, please don't hesitate to ask. I know I still have much info I've promised to send you--just takes time to dig it out and organize it. Seems I keep getting pulled one way or another.
Soon....
Thanks again!
JCC
Subj: FW: Muncy
Date: 98-04-23 06:48:54 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: pure_celtic@ ('pure_celtic@')
CC: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
Hi, Linda.
Michele forwarded your message on to a group of us, all pursuing genealogy of our ancestors, who were all related (sometimes by one connection; sometimes by many, many connections) and came from primarily the Cheswold, DE area, but also those who came from, or migrated to, Sussex Co, DE, the MD Eastern Shore, and/or Southern NJ.
I, personally, am descended from all three surnames you mentioned. I suspect you may have already been in touch with Harry Muncey?? Anyway, my lineage descends from Skidmore Munsey, b. before 1738 in prob. Kent Co, DE, who migrated to prob. Augusta Co, VA and Wythe Co, VA, and d. before Jul 1797. He was the son of Samuel Muncy/Munsey, Sr. and Mary Daugherty. Samuel was the son of Francis Muncy II and Abigail
Skidmore.
I could go further back, but I'll wait until I hear from you and whether any of these names/lines sound familiar. It was good to hear from you!
Take care, John C. Carter
St. Petersburg, FL
spiff@
Subj: FW: Harman
Date: 98-04-25 20:10:51 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
For your info.
Not sure if any connection to the Delaware Harmans/Harmons.
JCC
----------
From: Caine4562[SMTP:Caine4562@]
Sent: Friday, April 24, 1998 10:59 AM
To: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@
Subject: Harman
Hi, all,
I'm still seeking ANY info on any ancestors, or any descendants of my ggg grandfather, Nimrod Harman. He is found in Worcester Co., in 1790, but not in the 1800. Head of household in 1800 is Sally Harman, his wife. Does anyone have any info on Sally? Her last name, birth place? Family legend has it that they came down the Chesapeake and then into
Worcester, but I don't believe that. I do believe that when Nimrod's son, Nathan was about 15 or 16, they first came to Worcester Co. Nathan set up a boat repair shop at Newark, MD about 1806-1807 when the Pocomoke River was still deep. Ships from Chincoteague and Baltimore came to his shop to be repaired. Of course, there's nothing left of his shop now - the water has completely eroded the site. But if anyone can help give me any information on
this family, or tell me where I can possibly find anything about ship repairsin this area I would appreciate it. The local newspapers operating in the late 1800's didn't even know about this business, so they were no help. I'm stuck !!!
Any help is most appreciated. MaryC
Subj: Re: Don't leave me out in the cold...!
Date: 98-05-03 23:12:15 EDT
From: eheite@ (Ned Heite)
To: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
CC: 74547.41@ (DEBORAH P UNGER), montanus@ (jim
Mea Culpa, John. The CC on this is my current list. We need to get organized better. Debbie is correct. We have outgrown the cc capabilities of many systems, in addition to everyone having a different list.
At 10:47 PM 5/3/1998, John C. Carter wrote:
> Hello, all.
> After two or three messages that I seem to be hearing about secondhand....
> And after a couple of "reply-all" messages from others, addressing topics which I've never heard of, yet the person replying seems to think everyone already knows what's being discussed....
> It seems that perhaps my name/address is not included in everyone's group send-list. I think this stems from Ned's innocent omission of my e-mail address from his original list.
> I would kindly ask that everyone please check their group-list to see that my name/address is included, or else when replying to a message please be kind and attach the message you're respoding to below your reply, so that those of us who weren't privy to the original message will know what's being talked about.
While I hav your attention, here is a copy of a note I sent Floyd and some folks who were trying to find one Easter Sammons.
>
>Handsor permuted into Hansley and remains today here in Delaware. Some of the old timers on this list can confirm that we have nearly come to blows about Hester - Esther confusions.
>
>Coursey is one of the few surnames that we can identify with an early eighteenth-century tribal person. Chief Tom Coursey signed some of the treaty documents imposed by Maryland after Winnesoccum.
>
>Tracing these name permutations is interesting but damn frustrating sometimes. The other day at the archives in Dover, Chuck Martin was asking me how I was so sure that Gonsela was the same as Conselor, so I called for the first Gonsela's probate file. I couldn't for the life of me
>remember where I had found the connection, but luckily there it was. Gonsela's estate was administered by a widow named Consela, and his children were Conselor, or some such.
>
>Apropos your Cornelius Handsor, Floyd, I also know of a Cornelius Hansley.
>
>The most famous of those permutations are Campbell, Campobello, Fairfield, Beauchamp, Beecham, all of whom are the same name. And there is the theory that Christopher Columbus was actually a Norwegian named Bond (James Bond?).
>
>One of the Counsellors, who was in the Navy, said he had run into the Conselo family name in hispanic countries. That makes a lot of sense, especially considering the fact that names like Francisco and Rodriguez also appear early in the community.
Subj: RE: DEFINE OURSELVES
Date: 98-05-05 07:11:23 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: 104141.3670@ ('104141.3670@'),
Hello, again.
OK, I think I got all the addresses removed of people who sent me messages asking to be dropped...
And thank all of you who sent me personal messages of your goals and interests. Again, I meant no ill will; it's just gotten to be too much....
Thank-you, Ned, once again, for your wonderful thoughts!!
I agree wholeheartedly with your suggestion, since I basically don't have time for web-sites (my browser is slow), and I have doubts about a listserve. Perhaps I'm wrong.
However, for the time being, in speaking of your four suggested groups, I would most definitely choose to be in Interest Group I, with some OCCASIONAL overlapping from the other groups, with subjects that might be of interest to the "ancestral branches."
Thanks again for most-likely saving us from doom!
JCC
Subj: On the soapbox again....
Date: 98-05-04 21:27:26 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: 104141.3670@ ('104141.3670@'),
OK, here's the deal:
This whole thing has obviously gotten completely totally 100% out of control.
I mean no offense to anyone. You all have admirable intentions, and we all share a love (addiction!) to genealogy, but after the onslaught of messages over the last 24 hours or so, I feel there are some things that need to be said.
I'm afraid some of what I'm about to say will be misinterpreted, or will be presumed to be conceited, or will rub people's fur the wrong way. But then again, a few of you know that I've rubbed fur the wrong way before!
Back in October of 1996, this so-called group had its modest origins when Lynn Jackson, Debbie Pierce Unger and I began corresponding with Ned Heite via e-mail. Debbie (and probably Lynn as well) had already been corresponding with Ned a couple of times via snail mail previous to that. Debbie and I had known each other for about 5 or 6 years at that time, and Lynn and I had been sharing genealogical information since about 1974, 20+
years earlier. (No, we're not that old--we just started very young!)
Debbie, Lynn and I all shared the interesting heritage of being descended from this marvelous group of people known as, among other monikers, the Delaware Moors, the Nanticokes, or Lenni-Lenapes. This was a very unique group of people, and what one usually finds when one begins genealogy in this group is that you can be related to your "cousins" through MANY different branches. Lynn and I are blood-related through six different
family lines, so far.
Gradually, the group began to grow. In November of that year, MayBelle Durham Bordley joined (a cousin to me by 5 different lines). In January of 1997, Michele Pierce joined (the wife of a cousin to me by 4 different lines). In February 1997, Jan Jackson (related to me via 3 different lines) and Floyd Handsor joined (no established relationship yet, but still to this day looking for that elusive Handsor connection which undoubtably exists).
Suffice it to say, that we were a very close-knit group. We occasionally had our differences, but we were held together by that common bond, the family genealogy ties that bind.
Over the last year or so, a few other "old freinds" (cousins) joined in, who we had known via snail mail or in person for many years: Rose Ridgeway, Lorraine Johnson Gregg, Harry Muncey. A few other previously unknown cousins came along, working on many of the same lines: Betty & Ray Terry, Preston Sammons, the Seeney/Seaney descendants, the Concealer descendants. We still had one thing in common: we were all FAMILY. We
knew each other. We were all working on the same lines. Our family origins had one or more of three places in common: Cheswold, Indian River, or Bridgeton/Gouldtown.
Now. . Now, the group has EXPLODED exponentially. After my message last night, I came home today to find 26 (!!) unread messages in my inbox, many from people I had never heard of before! From people that have no connection to our original group! One person even told me "welcome to the group"!! Another person (also who I'd never heard of before) had a wonderful comment, that made me laugh out loud at the absurdity of it all, a comment that just about sums everything up: "How do I get off this Merry-go-round???"
Alas....
I have spoke with some of the others of you, who have said the same thing: this has gotten WAY out of control. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that time is valuable. There is no way on Earth that I will be able to keep up with all the messages of an e-mail group like this, and expect to get any research of my own done. I'm sure many of you agree.
Please understand that I bear no ill will toward any of you. All of you new-comers have been very polite and friendly, and have been willing to share info. But I must say that there is absolutely no way that I will have time to continue with a group this large.
I don't mean to say that I'm dropping out, or that anyone else drop out. But I think we need to step back a little, and ask ourselves a simple question before we think about creating a listserve, or cc'ing everybody under the sun: does everyone REALLY need to see that message? Why not just send it to those who are known to be interested in that particular branch?
Those of you who've been here a little while have probably noticed that some of the "old-timers" never really respond any more. It's because this has gotten out of control. It started out as a small resourceful group of those descended from the mixed-blood communities of Cheswold, Indian River, or Bridgeton/Gouldtown.
Is it too late to try to keep it at that??
Thanks for listening.
John Carter
Subj: FW: Reed (Sussex Co) Query
Date: 98-05-10 09:07:41 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'),
For your info:
I don't have much on the Reed family in DE, but I thought some of the rest of you might. JCC
----------
From: Johnita P. Malone[SMTP:jmalone@]
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 1998 3:14 AM
To: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@
Subject: LDR Most Wanted
I would like to locate any information, i.e., parents, siblings, etc., concerning James Reed, who died about 1773 in Sussex Co., DE. His wife's name was Mary. His children were: James who married Rhoda Donovan; Jane who married Richard Hart; Elizabeth who never married; Mary who never married; Sarah who married Robert Gibson; Abraham who married Naomi
Blocksom; and Lydia who married Jeremiah Fowler.
--
Johnita P. Malone
jmalone@
Researching: Malone, Reed, Staton, Morrow, Stanley, Plunk, Freestad,
Bushong, Wilbanks, Frazier, Meek, Harris, Saylor, James, Perkins, White,
Currin, Morris, Gage, Butler, Dodd, Taylor, Lutz, Ruggles, Briggs, Rhea,
Ray, Fincher, Jackson, O'Briant, Coburn, Black, Parrish, Barnes, Carey,
Betts, Keller, Wymore, Cooke, Jones, Gossett, Smith, Hester, Melton,
Hope, Cannaday, Blocksom, Reynolds, Rinker, Snook, Haddon, Betts,
Bossert, Gantt, Pryor, Watson, Cole, Shewin, Williams, Wheeler, Fowler,
Mitchell, Clendenin, Downing, Pettyjohn, Bowman, Cauffman, Lafferty,
Weigel, Lollar, Wood, Morris, Thompson, Burch, Greene
Subj: Short Trip
Date: 98-05-23 08:21:48 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
Hello.
Not that I've been that active with research lately, but I thought I would let everyone know that I will be out-of-state (West Virginia) for a few days, returning on Wednesday the 27th. I will then have a few days off from work, so I hope to get some catching-up done with the genealogy.
Thanks very much for the recent info that several of you have been sending, and I hope to respond soon! Loved the Delaware photos! And thanks for the identification).
Take care, JCC
Subj: Re: Short Trip
Date: 98-05-23 08:37:48 EDT
From: jonlmillersr@ (Jon L Miller)
To: spiff@ (John Carter)
CC: 104141.3670@ (Chuck Martin), 74547.41@,
Enjoy yourself John.
I'm taging along on your mailing list to ask those on it to change my e-mail address to my local ISP so I can handle attachments. Juno, as you may know is a free, advertiser supported service that doesn't handle attachments. Please change my address on all lists to:
Jon L. Miller Sr
JON MILLER
P.S. Y'all may this this post again as I try to make contact across the
different lists.
On Sat, 23 May 1998 08:25:40 -0400 "John C. Carter"
writes:
>Subj: FW: MD Archives interlibrary loan
Date: 98-05-28 11:15:36 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
CC: thard@mail. ('Hardcastle, Tom (thard@mail.)')
Hello, all.
Thought I would pass along, for your info. JCC
----------
From: denicola[SMTP:denicola@]
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 6:52 AM
To: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@
Subject: MD Archives interlibrary loan
I thought I'd pass this along. It is a response to a query I made to the Maryland State Archives about their interlibrary services for microfilm. Many of you may already be aware of this, but for anyone starting out or new to the computer, it is great! I had queried them because I couldn't access the information on interlibrary loan off their web site:
......
>
>The page to be accessed is:
>
>
>It says:
>Microfilm may be ordered in two ways -- through interlibrary loan (ILL) for a rental fee of $5.00 per reel loaned for a period of 5 weeks or purchased for a fee of $10.00 per reel.
>
>You can find listings of microfilmed records and their reel numbers at our website under Reference & Research. For State and county records go to "Finding Aids and Indexes" then "Guide to Government Records." Read the information at "Guide to Government Records." From there you can go directly to the microfilm series (type of record) you seek and get the microfilm numbers you need. Access to indexes of microfilm editions of newspapers and
church records also are available off the Finding Aids and Indexes page. For Church Records click on "Reference and Research" then "Special Collections" then "Church Records." For Newspapers click on "Reference and Research" then "Special Collections" then "Newspapers."
>
>Please note that you will encounter microfilm numbers that look like this:
>CR 1234-1, CR 1234-2, CR 1234-3. The -1, -2 & -3 refer to a part of the film -- more than one book is found on reel -- CR 1234. Your order should reflect the core number (in this example, the core number is CR 1234) only.
>
>Interlibrary loan (ILL) is conducted through your local public library or educational institution using an ALA ILL form (the library has these). Your order should be accompanied by a check or money order made payable to the Maryland State Archives. The order should cite each reel(s) in the following way -- the agency that created the record, ie. TALBOT COUNTY REGISTER OF WILLS, the type of record, ie. (Wills), the book or date span, and the
reel#. ILL orders are filled approximately 3 weeks after receipt of request.
>
>To purchase film, you may submit your order by phone with a credit card (Visa, Mastercard, Discover) to (410) 974-3914 during business hours M-F, 8-5 (EST), fax (410) 974-2525 (include a credit card #) or through the mail (include a check/money order or credit card #). ALWAYS give the full citation for the record(s) as shown above and include your name, return address and daytime phone number with your request. Orders are filled approximately 3 weeks
after receipt of requests.
>
>If you have any further questions or need clarification, please call the Archives' phone reference desk at (410) 974-3914 during business hours M-F, 8-5 (EST).
>
>Lynne MacAdam
>Director, Information Systems Management
>Maryland State Archives
>webmaster: Maryland State Archives
>
>MD toll free (800) 235-4045 or (410) 974-3914
>
______________________________
Subj: Lynn's father
Date: 98-05-29 17:16:39 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'),
Hello.
Just a brief note to let you know that Lynn Jackson's father passed away about 6:00pm last night, if you hadn't heard.
His passing was lung-related, and he had been sick off-and-on many times. Lynn described his passing as "quickly and peacefully."
Just thought I would pass this along to those of you who most closely corresponded with her.
Thanks, and take care,
John
Subj: RE: DEFINE OURSELVES
Date: 98-05-30 12:19:19 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
Hello.
This is a little slow in coming, and many of you already know some or all of this info, but I thought I would share it, for what it's worth. It may help, just as a refresher.
(I've tried to add all recent names that I've seen the other researchers cc'ing, even though I don't know all of you. If I've included someone as a recipient who doesn't wish to be, my apologies--just let me know, and I'll remove your name from any future ones I might send. I can't speak for the rest of the group, however).
Following Chuck Counceller's suggestion, and the lead of a couple of others of you, I will outline my basic bio, my interest(s) in genealogy, and provide a list of surnames I'm descended from (or interested in).
Obviously, my name is John C. (Cyrus) Carter.
I am 39 years old (and holding!), and work for a mutual fund company (Franklin Templeton) here in St. Petersburg, Florida. I've worked at this company, and lived in Florida, both for 8 years, this month. Prior to that I lived in Southern California and worked, among other places, for the U.S. Postal Service. While in California, I got to know Harry Muncey & his family. Prior to the 10 years I lived in California, I grew up in northeastern New Mexico, but was born in Dover, Delaware. My father was born in Greenwich, Cumberland Co,
NJ, (my mother was born in Kentucky, raised in West Virginia).
I have been working on genealogy for roughly 25 years, and have been corresponding with Lynn Jackson (and Wythena's aunt Pinky, and another "non-internet" cousin, Katherine Newlin Thomas) ever since then. My interest in genealogy started earlier than in the average researcher, and this was fortunate, as I was able to correspond, get information from, and get to know many older folks who have sadly passed on since. As the years went by, I came in contact with several others of you, such as MayBelle, Sweetsie (Rose) and Lorraine, who have been wonderful as well. When I moved to Florida, I got to know Debbie Unger & her family, and have had many wonderful meetings, information-sharing sessions, and innumerable (!) conversations.
The Computer Age has brought wonderful innovations to genealogy, and I'm happy to have made electronic acquaintences with the rest of you.
My computer program is Family Tree Maker 3.0, and the file for my father's side (my connection to all of you) currently contains 2503 individuals.
I have been a member of the Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape Indian association of New Jersey since 1988. I am a member of the SAR (Sons of the American Revolution) through 3 ancestors on my mother's side, but am currently working on Supplemental Applications on my father's side for James Dean and John Durham, thanks to the wonderful information that Chuck
Counceller recently shared with us. I also have two more potential SAR ancestors on my father's side I could join under, if I could ever (!!) PROVE my great-grandfather's illegitimate descent from the Hardcastles. I am also a member of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War, through one ancestor on my mother's side, and three on my father's side (Cornelius Ridgeway, Alfred Ridgeway, and Daniel Coker). I am currently working on my application for the Sons & Daughters of the Colonial & Antebellum Bench & Bar, and after that plan to complete my application for the Order of the Crown of Charlemagne in America.
The surnames I am directly descended from (on my father's side) are as follows (all with DE or MD origins):
Bailey
Carney
Carter (formerly Carty, and before that: McCarty)
Coker
Colston
Concealor/Councilor/etc.
Cott
Dean
Downes
Durham
Handsor/Hanzer
Hardcastle
Hewes
Jackson
Morgan
Morris
Muncey/Munce/Muntz
Orem
Ridgeway/Ridgway
Wyatt
Other surnames I'm interested in (some more, some less), either for connection-by-marriage, or possible future-discovered descent:
Boggs
Clark
Cork
Harmon
Loatman
Pierce
Reed
Sammons
Seeney/Seaney/etc.
Sisco/Francisco
Songo
Street
(There may be a few I've forgot)
My interests lie with all of the families listed above, no matter what color, race, creed, religion, etc. I firmly believe that ALL people are equal, and deserve equal pride and recognition of their heritages.
I also firmly believe in sharing all information, and am willing to send copies or data of anything I have to anyone who requests it, no strings attached. (Sometimes it might take me a little while to get copies made).
I should point out that, as you all know, there can often be many branches of the more common surnames. And whereas many researchers pursue all known "leads" or branches of a specific surname, in an effort to see if there is a possible connection, my time and resources do not allow me this luxury. Therefore, I tend to concentrate only on those lines already established to connect with mine, or which are probable to connect. By this, I mean, for
example, I cannot go chasing every Carter lead, just because they may have inhabited the same locale as "my" Carters.
Anyway, many thanks to all of you who have shared information, and I look forward to many more years of pursuing research together.
John C. Carter
3120 8th Ave. N.
St. Petersburg, FL 33713-6622
(813) after July 1st, to be (727) -- 321-0636
Subj: RE: Genealogy / New Researcher
Date: 98-05-31 22:51:00 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: Bephi@ ('Bephi@')
CC: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
Hi, Beverley.
Glad to hear from you!
You and I are definitely cousins, and I have some information that I'm sure will be of interest to you.
Your grandmother, Hester Dean, wife of Frederick Seeney, was the daughter of Robert B. Dean, Sr., and Catherine Morgan, who were also my great-great-great-grandparents. I am descended from their daughter Mary Ann Dean Coker, sister of your grandmother Hester Dean Seeney.
Robert B. Dean Sr. was born 24 April 1830, and died 30 Sep 1874.
Catherine Morgan was born 27 Dec 1833, and died 23 May 1894. After Robert's death she married a Carney as her 2nd husband. Catherine & Robert are buried side by side at Manship/Immanuel Union Cemetery in Cheswold, Kent County, Delaware. Cheswold is one of the "focal points" of these mixed-blood/Indian families. There is a tremendous amount of history involved. And many people are in the process of researching these families. I am cc'ing a few of them. If you're interested in genealogy, you've hit the proverbial jackpot, I think.
To continue:
Robert B. Dean's parents were Jesse Dean, Jr., and Hester Ann Carney. Jesse Jr. was the son of Jesse Dean, Sr., and (poss. Rebecca). Jesse Sr. was the son of James Dean and Sarah Hewes.
Going back to Hester Ann Carney, she was the daughter of Thomas Carney and (??).
Going back down to Catherine Morgan, she was the daugher of John Morgan and (??).
I hope this gives you a good start--! Feel free to ask more questions.
A wonderful web site you definitely want to visit is:
To be honest, I haven't even had a chance to go through it in depth yet, but I know it has a wealth of information on our families, as it is being compiled by fellow researchers Betty & Ray Terry, cc'd above. Many of us have been sharing our information with them, and they have been aided from the technical side by Ross & Debbie Dellinger in getting the web site up & running.
Betty Terry is a descendant of Anna Elizabeth Dean Mosely, another sister of your ancestor Hester Dean Seeney and my ancestor Mary Ann Dean Coker.
As I said, there have been innumerable books, publications, articles, theses, dissertations, etc, all based on the Nanticoke, Lenni-Lenape, and otherwise mixed-blood communities. (The three main areas are Cheswold, DE, the Indian River area, DE, and the Bridgeton/Gouldtown areas, NJ). And many of us have been doing research for many years (for 25 years, myself. A few others for just as long, or longer).
To be blunt and honest: Some of us are more open-minded, and some are less. Some of us are more willing to share information, and some are less. But we all do our best to get along and work together. I personally will do my best to share anything with you that I know or have. One of my faults, however, is having the time necessary to devote to this all-consuming hobby! (And to respond to e-mail messages. Consider yourself lucky to have such a quick response!) :-)
Ned Heite, also cc'd above, is an archaeologist and an historian, not blood-related to us (yet!), but definitely a cousin in spirit (!), whose occupation it has been to research many of our families in conjunction with his work for the state of Delaware, etc. He has been a great resource to us all, often keeps us in line when we stray with confusion, and is a great joke-teller!
Don't be afraid to ask any of us for help or suggestions. We all pass messages back & forth, either individually, or to the entire group.
Welcome, and good luck!!
John C. Carter
St. Petersburg, FL
spiff@
Subj: Robert Carney b. ca. 1815
Date: 98-06-01 06:05:50 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Betty & Ray.
I finally had a chance to browse through the Mitsawoket site last night for a little bit. It looks wonderful. Definitely a great resource, and a central "repository."
One thing that immediately caught my eye was the reference to future/ongoing research pertaining to Robert Carney (b. ca. 1815) in the Civil War. Are you able to tell me more about this? I'm very curious. I am descended from this Robert, and had never heard of his being involved in the Civil War before. Was he really a veteran? Do we know his regiment company/unit? Do we know where he's buried?
Thanks very much for your help!
JCC
Subj: Robert Carney b. ca. 1815
Date: 98-06-01 06:05:50 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Betty & Ray.
I finally had a chance to browse through the Mitsawoket site last night for a little bit. It looks wonderful. Definitely a great resource, and a central "repository."
One thing that immediately caught my eye was the reference to future/ongoing research pertaining to Robert Carney (b. ca. 1815) in the Civil War. Are you able to tell me more about this? I'm very curious. I am descended from this Robert, and had never heard of his being involved in the Civil War before. Was he really a veteran? Do we know his regiment company/unit? Do we know where he's buried?
Thanks very much for your help!
JCC
Subj: Re: Robert Carney b. ca. 1815
Date: 98-06-04 15:17:49 EDT
From: AquaBetty
To: spiff@
In a message dated 98-06-01 06:05:50 EDT, you write:
Because of your expertise along many directions of research in the area, I thought I would ask you what you could tell me about the Delaware Archives, and the easiest way to obtain copies of data from them. If the volume is known, can one order copies through the mail? Or does one have to visit in person?
> Any suggestions you might have would be greatly appreciated. I have nearly everything I need to establish (prove) descent from John Durham Sr and James Dean (I actually have two descent lines from James Dean, only one of which--thankfully--is through the infamously confusing Jesse/illegitimate line),
>but I would need to establish William Counselor as the father of Elijah before I could pursue that angle. Lynn Jackson and Betty & Ray Terry have been kind enough to offer to share copies of various probate records, etc, from the earlier generations.
> Thanks very much for any thoughts on the subject.
> JCC
Subj: RE: notes from the archives
Date: 98-06-18 20:36:59 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: eheite@ ('Ned Heite')
CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Ned.
Regarding your snippet below, the Cott family Bible has a listing which reads as follows:
"Elisha Durham a son of George Durham of Kent County & state of Delaware was married to Ann Cott a daughter [of] John Cott Senior of the same Hundred County and State of afore said one th[illegible] tenth day of December in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred & forty by [Josaway?] [Lum?] [illegible] [omination?] of [Meathis?] [pisable?] Church 1840."
For your info....
JCC
----------
From: Ned Heite[SMTP:eheite@]
Sent: Monday, June 15, 1998 7:32 PM
To: DEBORAH P UNGER; jim bissell; cara blume; maybelle bordley; john carter; chuck Kressman
Subject: notes from the archives
William Hutt fathered Ann Cott's daughter, born 28 July 1834. I believe John Cott was her father, since he signed the bond. Samuel Johnson also went bond.
Subj: FW: FYI: Eastern Shore Indians ...
Date: 98-06-18 20:55:34 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
For your info.
JCC
----------
From: R. Marsh[SMTP:ardchoille@]
Sent: Monday, June 15, 1998 11:34 PM
To: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@
Subject: Re: FYI: Eastern Shore Indians ...
I am interested in research of Native Americans of the Delmarva area and have one of my web pages dedicated to such. There is a list of books there (including the one you recommend) that I have in my personal library and thought others might enjoy as well. If anyone is doing
similar research please stop by my site at
Regards, Regina
--------------------------------------------------
>
>Thought some of you might be interested in the following title:
>
> Rountree, Helen C. Eastern Shore Indians of Virginia and Maryland. Charlottesville : Univ. Press of Virginia, 1997. 329 p. LC97-2651 ISBN 08139173444 (hardback) ISBN 0813918014 (pbk.)
>
> Sam Andrusko
Subj: RE: notes from the archives
Date: 98-06-18 21:16:56 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: eheite@ ('Ned Heite')
CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
P.S.
Debba or Deborah Cott (b. 06 Jul 1841), niece of Ann Cott Durham by her brother John D. Cott, married an Isaac Durham. Wonder if this was the Isaac who was brother of Elijah? (Or a son of that Isaac?)
JCC
----------
From: Ned Heite[SMTP:eheite@]
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 1998 9:54 PM
To: John C. Carter
Cc: 'Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'
Subject: RE: notes from the archives
At 8:38 PM 6/18/1998, John C. Carter wrote:
> Hi, Ned.
> Regarding your snippet below, the Cott family Bible has a listing which reads as follows:
> "Elisha Durham a son of George Durham of Kent County & state of Delaware was married to Ann Cott a daughter [of] John Cott Senior of the same Hundred County and State of afore said one th[illegible] tenth day of December in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred & forty by [Josaway?] [Lum?] [illegible] [omination?] of [Meathis?] [pisable?] Church 1840."
I have George Durham ( - 1845) married to Susan. Their son, Rev. William Durham (1819-1857) has a tombstone at Manship. The other sons, according to George's will, were Isaac, Henry, and Elijah, not Elisha.
The minister might have been Lum, of the Methodist Episcopal Church.
That was six years after Hutt's daughter was born. Hutt is not a familiar name to me, but I find a David Hutt "Negro" in the 1804 assessment (where everyone nonwhite is identified as negro). A David Hutt, mulatto, appears in the 1819 list, which includes both m and n designators.
>William Hutt fathered Ann Cott's daughter, born 28 July 1834. I believe John Cott was her father, since he signed the bond. Samuel Johnson also went bond.
Subj: RE: notes from the archives
Date: 98-06-18 21:17:37 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: eheite@ ('Ned Heite')
CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Ned.
I just re-looked at the Bible page, and indeed the supposed "s" does look more like a "j" now, when compared to other "s's" in the writing. It was the spelling that threw me: "Elijha". This made me think the "j" was an "s."
I will change the record in my FTM as well.
JCC
P.S. I sent a note off this morning to the DE State Archives, about how (costs, etc) to obtain copies of the Revolutionary data. Thanks again.
Subj: RE: BETTY TERRY - Lineage
Date: 98-06-18 21:29:26 EDT
From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To: pepper@ ('pepper@')
CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Jon.
Do you use FTM or a compatible genealogy program? I would be happy to e-mail you my GEDCOM. (Might not get a chance to until Saturday, though. Am SWAMPED with e-mail!! Trying to catch up with quick replies right now, longer ones later....
Take care, JCC
----------
From: Jon Lloyd Miller, Sr.[SMTP:pepper@]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 8:49 PM
To: Jon L Miller
Cc: John C. Carter
Subject: Re: BETTY TERRY - Lineage
Hi...
Jon L Miller wrote:
> --------- Begin forwarded message ----------
> From: AquaBetty@
> To: jonlmillersr@
> Subject: Re: The Mosley Family
> Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1998 04:02:26 EDT
> Message-ID:
>
> In a message dated 98-05-18 00:16:44 EDT, you write: What is your father's birth and death dates and where are they interred?
b1 Mar 1900, d 1959., I'LL HAVE TO LOOK UP THE MONTH AND DAY, IT'S NOTTOP OF MIND. I looked in the Soc Sec Death Index but could not find him. Lots ofWalter Miller's however. He is Walter Francis Miller. Lawnside, CamdenCounty, NJ
MOM IS IN THE BROAD STREET CEMETERY IN BRIDGETON, AS ARE HER PARENTS ANDSIBLINGS.MY DAD IS IN THE FORD CEMETERY IN GOULDTOWN. > >From John Carter's file which he sent to us and your e-mail of 5/18, I> think we have figured out your lineage. Just skimpy on details.> Betty> Beltsville, MD> --------- End forwarded message ----------
CAN I SEE JOHN'S FILE?Regards, Jon Miller
Subj: RE: Benjamin SiscoDate: 98-06-18 21:39:58 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: eheite@ ('Ned Heite')CC: 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)')
(See below) JCC
----------From: Ned Heite[SMTP:eheite@]
Right now, I'm trying to nail down Benjamin Sisco (not to be confused withthe Captain),
...Too bad it's NOT the Captain!! He would be able to take us time-travelling through the wormhole and we could go back in time and get this whole genealogy mess straightened out once and for all !!!!!
Beam me up, Dax!
(Sorry, I couldn't resist....) ;-} JCC
Subj: RE: Hardcastle reportDate: 98-06-18 21:42:29 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Betty & Ray. Will try to get you a reply on this ASAP, but may not get a chance until Saturday.... Thanks for being patient... JCC
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 8:07 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Hardcastle report
John,
Please look at the Hardcastle report and send us your nays and yeas. DirectURL is
Through Mitsawokett is
and page down to click on Family Histories.
B&R
Subj: RE: notes from the archivesDate: 98-06-18 22:25:59 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Most likely.... JCC
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Thursday, June 18, 1998 9:27 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: notes from the archives
In a message dated 98-06-18 20:36:59 EDT, you write:
>
Methodist Episcopal?
BSubj: RE: Durham data discrepanciesDate: 98-06-18 22:26:21 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@'), jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu (jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu)
Hi, Betty & Ray. I think I can help with some of these, but it will take some digging and time. I will try to get to it on Saturday but can't promise anything for sure. I'll do my best to get back to you as soon as possible. Thanks! JCC
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Thursday, June 18, 1998 2:57 AMTo: spiff@; jjackson@sunmail.chapman.eduSubject: Durham data discrepancies
John and Jan,
Below is a message sent from Jan to John and fwd to us by John. The list ofthe children of Benjamin and Sallie Ann Durham has some problems. Can youhelp resolve them?
From: Janet Jackson[SMTP:jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu]Sent: Saturday, March 22, 1997 10:54 PMTo: John C. CarterCc: 'Debbie Unger'; 'MayBelle & Sandy Bordley'; 'Floyd Handsor'; 'Ned Heite';'Lynn Jackson'; 'Michele Pierce'Subject: RE: James Edward Durham
Hi John,
3. My notes show children of Benjamin and Sallie Ann children as:
Daniel b. Oct 1849, d. 09 Jan 1931 m. Caroline
----The stone at Manship is engraved, "Died 9 Jan 1931 age 81-4-1"Plugged into a date calculator, that equates to 8 Sep 1849.
Annie b. ca 1854, died bef 1888 m. John Durham (son of Joel Durham)John M. b. Nov 1856 died aft 1900 m. ElmiraHarriet b. 1858, d. bef 1888
Enoch Durham b. June 1858, died 1929, m. Margaret Muntz, Cora Miller
---- We have Lola Miller. Is Cora or Lola correct? Our source = JCC GEDCOM.
Jeremiah (Jerry) b. 1862 d. 1936 m. Lydia Muntz
---- We have birthyear 1867.
Henrietta (Hannie) F. b. Dec 1862, died 1935 m. Napoleon Bonaparte Morgan
----Hannie or Fannie? Also, Fork Branch stone says died 1934.
Henry b. 1869Clem b. 1872 m. RebeccaFrank b. Dec 1873
Minnie (Mariah) b. 1874, m. Henry Ridgeway
----Manship stone says born 27 May 1873. JCC GEDCOM says Minnie married Shadrack Carney.
Amanda b. 26 Dec 1874, d. 10 Aug 1910 m. James O. Sammons
----1870 census gives Amanda age 3. Manship stone says "26 Dec 1874-10 Aug1910. Married James O. Sammons." Buried with Amanda are W.G. Sammons1882-1946 and Ella D. Sammons 1888-1969. Is the Amanda cited above the sameperson as the child of Benjamin and Sallie Ann Durham? Anyone looked at thedeath certificate?
Harvey Durham b. 1876 m. Lola
We are inputting all the e-mail info received in the past six months into PAFso accurate web reports can be created.
Thanks for you help -- and John, we promise to get those copies to you soon!
B&R
Subj: RE: Robert B. Dean, son of Jesse Dean IIDate: 98-06-20 17:58:39 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Betty & Ray. I received the package today--thanks very much! However, I must apologize, because I'm afraid you misunderstood (or I mis-explained) what I was looking for. I am looking for copies of the will/distribution of Jesse Dean Jr, not Robert Dean. My intent is to establish/prove that Robert was the son of Jesse Jr. In other words, I need proof for the gap above Robert, not below him. Nevertheless, the information you sent me is very interesting, and even though my ancestor Mary Ann Dean Coker's death certificate had already established her as a daughter of Robert, the info you sent will substantiate it, (especially in light of the fact that her death certificate erroneously lists her mother as "Catherine Coker," instead of "Catherine Morgan"). Catherine's surname is not essential in my establishing this line of descent from a Revolutionary supporter, but correct documentation would be beneficial and preferred. Once again, and especially considering the extra copies, I would be most happy to pay you for any photocopying and mailing costs. Thanks very much for your time and help. JCC P.S. Also, as mentioned in my original message below, do you happen to have copies of the original document of James Dean's will, listing Jesse Sr as an heir? Thanks again. I very much appreciate your help.
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 1:52 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Robert B. Dean, son of Jesse Dean II
Yes, we have the Xeroxes of the file & would be glad to sent you copies.There is a place near us which charges 4 cents a page, so don't worry aboutthe cost.
At the Archives prior to the Cheswold Fire House meeting in May we noticedChuck Martin looking into records of farmers supplying grain to the Army. Wehad other plans and did not follow suit. If you have a Xerox of James Deandoing the same we would appreciate a copy.
B&R
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Sunday, June 07, 1998 9:27 PMTo: 'Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'Cc: 'Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)'Subject: Robert B. Dean, son of Jesse Dean II
Hi, Betty & Ray. I was wondering whether you perhaps had copies of the Orphans Court records (mentioned in Lynn's "The Dean Family" document) which show that Robert Dean (1830-1874), among others, was the son of Jesse Dean II, who died intestate on 10 October 1868. If so, would it be possible for me to get copies of these? I am planning to file a Supplemental application for the SAR, based on James Dean's supplying grain toward the cause of the Revolution, and the Robert/Jesse II gap is one of the places I need to substantiate. Also, even though the transcribed text of James Dean's will is on the Mitsawokett site, do you happen to have photocopies of the original document? (I already have photocopies of the original document of Jesse Sr's will--Lynn was kind enough to send copies of the original and of her typed transcription). I'm lucky that I have TWO lines of descent from James Dean.... I'm not sure what the SAR would think (or even what I think) of the clause in Jesse Sr's will which states, "And whereas my two above named children William and Jesse are not legitimate but were born before my intermarriage with their mother Rebecca." As Lynn has pointed out, this could mean that Jesse Sr was their biological father, but just not married with Rebecca at the time of their birth...or it could mean that they had a different father altogether. Fortunately, I can bypass this gap altogether by going through Jesse Sr's daughter Sarah, who married John D. Cott. (My paternal grandfather was descended from Sarah Dean Cott, and my paternal grandmother was descended from Jesse Dean II). However, I'd like to submit BOTH lines if possible, just so they're documented for future researchers. I'll have to decide what to do about that wicked clause in Jesse Sr's will.... Anyway, thanks very much for your help, and I will gladly pay for any copying costs. Let me know if there's anything you need.... Thanks, JCC
Subj: RE: Hardcastle reportDate: 98-06-20 22:34:54 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Betty & Ray.
I had a chance to look over the Hardcastle report on the web site today. I must say I was pleasantly surprised when I received your first message a few days ago, announcing that you'd uploaded it. I guess I didn't really expect you to deal with the Hardcastles, since they're not really one of the "mixed-blood" families, other than through their Carter descendants. Thanks for taking the time to put it on the site.
As for the "element of levity," I only noticed this in a couple of spots, and it was fine (I definitely have a sense of humor, and it's a welcome trait in others). However, there is one note that I thought I might mention. Whereas I found it amusing, I wondered if perhaps others who might see it might find it a little awkward: the comment about Alexander Hardcastle Sr and Elizabeth Carty "messing around in and about the grounds of Castle Hall." Whereas perhaps true, we don't have any evidence that their "dangerous liaison(s)" took place on the Hardcastle property. And the "messing around" part might not sit well with others. It might be a good idea to change this part, but please be assured that no offense was taken by me, and no harm done.
Anyway, to go on with some other comments:
Regarding the section under Alexander Hardcastle that mentions "Alexander consorted with, but did not marry, Elizabeth A. Carty in Caroline County, Maryland. Documentary proof of this relationship does not exist, nor was the relationship publicly acknowledged by Alexander Hardcastle, it being remembered only in the memories and Bibles of the families of Elizabeth's descendants." This is not quite correct, as there was no mention in any Bible of this relationship. It was passed on through oral tradition only. Whereas the Carty/Wyatt Bible does record Hopewell Carter Sr's birth, it does not mention who his father was. The only tangible hint is on Hopewell Carter Sr's death certificate, which lists his father as "Alexander Carter."
I wondered why it seemed families with multiple children often had their age-rank shuffled, even when birthdates were present. For instance, among my father's brothers and sisters, my uncle Donald is listed first, even though he is the next-to-youngest child.
It also rearranged the order of spouses for my uncle Donald. In reality, his first spouse was Darlene Faye Richardson, but the web site has her as his third spouse.
These were basically the only "nay" comments I had. Everything else would be "yea's." Of course, I didn't have a chance to go through the entire mass of descendants of Marmaduke, but I will continue to go back as time permits.
Again, thank you very much for all your hard work, and thanks for making note of my name. Take care, JCCSubj: RE: Hardcastle reportDate: 98-06-21 22:16:13 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Betty. Just a note to say I hope I've not offended you. I'm guessing you're probably pressed for time, but the shortness of your note couldn't help but make me wonder if I had crossed a line somewhere.... If so, I indeed sincerely apologize. Take care, JCC
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Sunday, June 21, 1998 12:18 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Hardcastle report
John,
By your command--the changes will be made Sunday.
Betty
Subj: Hardcastle editsDate: 98-06-22 15:56:46 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
John,
Made changes as you requested. The text now reads as follows:
Alexander consorted with, but did not marry, Elizabeth A. CARTY in Caroline County, Maryland. Documentary proof of this relationship does not exist, nor was the relationship publicly acknowledged by Alexander Hardcastle, it being remembered only in the memories of the families of Elizabeth's descendants and was passed on through oral tradition. Whereas the Carty/Wyatt Bible does record Hopewell Carter Sr's birth, it does not mention who his father was. The only tangible hint is on Hopewell Carter Sr's death certificate, which lists his father as "Alexander Carter." Elizabeth Carty/Carter was born 20 Apr 1821 in Caroline County, Maryland. She died 26 Mar 1906 in Kent County, Delaware.
54. Hopewell Umphrey CARTER (Alexander , William Molleson , Thomas H., Robert, Marmaduke) was born 28 Jan 1857 in Caroline County, Maryland. He died 13 Feb 1933 in Pittsgrove, Salem, New Jersey. As mentioned earlier, Hopewell Carter, Sr. is the illegitimate son of Dr. Alexander Hardcastle, Sr. and Elizabeth Carty/Carter. Alexander was the owner of Castle Hall, Caroline County, Maryland, which was the family estate of the Hardcastle family from the late 1700's until around the turn of this century.
B&RSubj: Re: Hardcastle reportDate: 98-06-22 16:01:53 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 98-06-20 22:34:54 EDT, you write:
born ca. 1820 and died 1890 (dates from Dave Seaney). The dates would>seem to fit if the James Seeney below was an orphan minor from 1831-1837. (I>assume that's what the dates refer to, correct? The time period that they>were>an orphaned minor?)> However, I'm a little confused by the notations below. I'm going>to give>them some more thought & studying, but when you say "Orphan's Court case>file of Bryan Seeney 1809-1831," and go on to say "the oldest son was>James," does this mean that James was Bryan's son? Or brother? If 1809->1831 was the dates that Bryan was an orphan minor, this seems pretty>unusual since it's a period of 22 years. Or is this Bryan's lifespan? If his>lifespan was this short, he must have been busy to produce 6 children before>he passed away.> Am I totally in left field here? Anyway, I'm confused over the date>ranges listed, and whether the children's names following each listing are>children of that person, or siblings of that person....> Thanks.> JCC> P.S. cc'ing Dave, Rod & Beverley, since I didn't see them on the>original message.> P.P.S. Not sure how many of you receive Dave Seaney's wonderful>Seaney newsletter, "Owen's Offspring," but this month's issue (just received>yesterday) deals with this Seeney branch.>>---------->From: Ned Heite[SMTP:eheite@]>Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 1998 12:23 PM>To: DEBORAH P UNGER; jim bissell; cara blume; maybelle bordley; john
>Subject: James Seeney of Kent County>>Here are some extracts from Kent County records at the Delaware archives,>which might be useful in sorting out the Seeney connections:>>Orphans Court case file of Bryan Seeney, 1809-1831:>>The eldest son was James, and the other children were John Lockwood's wife>and David. These may have been the only ones who were of legal age.>>Because he was the eldest son, the court assigned the property to James,>who brought John Powell and John Lewis to court as his sureties. He was>required to compensate his siblings for their rightful shares.>>George Soward was one of the freeholders commissioned to go on the property>and evaluate it.>>A later list of Bryan's children include David, James, William, Martha>Lockwood (wife of John), Mary Buckingham (wife of Isaac) and Matilda>Gillespie (wife of Patrick).>>James entered into an alientation bond to convey 134+ acres to his brother>David, who then died unmarried, intestate, and without issue. His estate>therefore descended to his siblings.>>>----->>David's Orphans Court file, 1814-1821, lists two brothers and three sisters>surviving. James signed his name.>>----->>Orphans Court file of James Seney 1831-1837:>>William K. Lockwood was administrator. Three children were Thomas, Henry, and Mary. Wife, Caroline, renounced her right to administer, in favor of William K. Lockwood.>>In 1837 Spencer Hitch was appointed Mary's guardian. She was then boarding with him and going to a good school in Greensboro. She was 17 years old in 1842. Did Caroline marry Hitch? Guardians not infrequently were subsequent husbands.>>Can anyone determine if this James is the same one Weslager says was the>progenitor of the Cheswold Seeney family?>>Subj: Tangier IslandDate: 98-06-23 22:32:42 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
For those who continue to be interested in the Tangier Island angle, (for whatever reason), I thought I might mention that "National Geographic" did an article on the island in their November 1973 issue. It was mainly a contemporary piece, but did mention some of the island's history (Captain Smith, etc). If anyone is unable to access a copy, I can send photocopies. (Photos are very unclear in my copy). Thanks. JCC
Subj: RE: EXCHANGING FILESDate: 98-06-23 22:35:42 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: ccc47331@si- ('Charles C Counceller')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Chuck. Interesting about the Gratiot County, MI comment. Of course, I've known for a while now that several families emigrated to Michigan, but I'm really starting to wonder if perhaps they all did it as a group--or whether they got in touch with each other when they got there...? The reason I mention this is that Gratiot County is also where John Wesley Cott & family also moved to in the mid-late 1800's. (The front of the Cott Bible is inscribed with "John W. Cott, 1856 Mich") Hmm...sounds like another project!! :-) JCC
----------From: Charles C Counceller[SMTP:ccc47331@si-]Sent: Monday, June 22, 1998 11:41 PMTo: John C CarterCc: Betty & Ray TerrySubject: RE: EXCHANGING FILES
Hi John,
In re to exchanging files on Elijah,
I would be glad to send this to you. I have one reservation about the file, one which has kept me from posting it to B&R site, and this is the possible error in the connecting Elisha as a sonof Benjamins. This was a best solution put forward by a genealogist hired by Ted Councilor (one of the MI Councilors) several years ago. I, like Chuck Martin, believe this to be wrong. Who Elisha's father is, I don't know. Chuck thinks it is William. At this time, I have a Michigan Counseller trying to find some death info on Elisha (he died in Gratiot county MIin 1864 [taking from memory here]) However, this file does contains some info on Stephens family etc which your file does not have. So if you wish, I'll send it AS IS, just keep in mind the Elisha. Also many of the notes and proofs are not yet entered. I did notice we don't quite agree on the children of John Durham's. I got mine from the will record mostly.
Advise,
Chuck Counceller
Subj: RE: Robert B. Dean, son of Jesse Dean IIDate: 98-06-20 17:58:39 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Betty & Ray. I received the package today--thanks very much! However, I must apologize, because I'm afraid you misunderstood (or I mis-explained) what I was looking for. I am looking for copies of the will/distribution of Jesse Dean Jr, not Robert Dean. My intent is to establish/prove that Robert was the son of Jesse Jr. In other words, I need proof for the gap above Robert, not below him. Nevertheless, the information you sent me is very interesting, and even though my ancestor Mary Ann Dean Coker's death certificate had already established her as a daughter of Robert, the info you sent will substantiate it, (especially in light of the fact that her death certificate erroneously lists her mother as "Catherine Coker," instead of "Catherine Morgan"). Catherine's surname is not essential in my establishing this line of descent from a Revolutionary supporter, but correct documentation would be beneficial and preferred. Once again, and especially considering the extra copies, I would be most happy to pay you for any photocopying and mailing costs. Thanks very much for your time and help. JCC P.S. Also, as mentioned in my original message below, do you happen to have copies of the original document of James Dean's will, listing Jesse Sr as an heir? Thanks again. I very much appreciate your help.
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 1:52 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Robert B. Dean, son of Jesse Dean II
Yes, we have the Xeroxes of the file & would be glad to sent you copies. There is a place near us which charges 4 cents a page, so don't worry about the cost.
At the Archives prior to the Cheswold Fire House meeting in May we noticedChuck Martin looking into records of farmers supplying grain to the Army. Wehad other plans and did not follow suit. If you have a Xerox of James Deandoing the same we would appreciate a copy.
B&R
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Sunday, June 07, 1998 9:27 PMTo: 'Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'Cc: 'Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)'Subject: Robert B. Dean, son of Jesse Dean II
Hi, Betty & Ray. I was wondering whether you perhaps had copies of the Orphans Court records (mentioned in Lynn's "The Dean Family" document) which show that Robert Dean (1830-1874), among others, was the son of Jesse Dean II, who died intestate on 10 October 1868. If so, would it be possible for me to get copies of these? I am planning to file a Supplemental application for the SAR, based on James Dean's supplying grain toward the cause of the Revolution, and the Robert/Jesse II gap is one of the places I need to substantiate. Also, even though the transcribed text of James Dean's will is on the Mitsawokett site, do you happen to have photocopies of the original document? (I already have photocopies of the original document of Jesse Sr's will--Lynn was kind enough to send copies of the original and of her typed transcription). I'm lucky that I have TWO lines of descent from James Dean.... I'm not sure what the SAR would think (or even what I think) of the clause in Jesse Sr's will which states, "And whereas my two above named children William and Jesse are not legitimate but were born before my intermarriage with their mother Rebecca." As Lynn has pointed out, this could mean that Jesse Sr was their biological father, but just not married with Rebecca at the time of their birth...or it could mean that they had a different father altogether. Fortunately, I can bypass this gap altogether by going through Jesse Sr's daughter Sarah, who married John D. Cott. (My paternal grandfather was descended from Sarah Dean Cott, and my paternal grandmother was descended from Jesse Dean II). However, I'd like to submit BOTH lines if possible, just so they're documented for future researchers. I'll have to decide what to do about that wicked clause in Jesse Sr's will.... Anyway, thanks very much for your help, and I will gladly pay for any copying costs. Let me know if there's anything you need.... Thanks, JCC
Subj: FW: Checking in...Date: 98-06-28 09:03:40 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Betty & Ray. Went looking for the message attached below, to refresh in my mind the items I'd said I'd wanted to share with you. In looking at the list, I recall that I've told you the story about the Manship church plot diagram. (You'd recommended someone for me to contact, but I've not done so). And, if I remember correctly, I think you have a link on the Mitsawoket site pointing to the Christopher Moore web page...? Or perhaps it was Lynn's web site.... (Not sure if Christopher still has the "My Views" sub-page or not, but I thought it was a wonderful testimony to open-mindedness and the reasons for doing genealogy). Most of the other things I think I haven't gotten to yet, so I will attempt to do so. If there's any on the list that you are particularly NOT interested in, let me know. Also, if there's something that's not listed, that you think I might have, let me know that, too, and I will be happy to share. Thanks again for all your hard work! JCC P.S. I should have copies from the DE Archives in the next few days, specifying James Dean, John Durham and William Councilor giving grain toward the cause of the Revolution. I will send you copies.
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Friday, February 13, 1998 11:38 PMTo: 'AquaBetty@'Subject: RE: Checking in...
Hi, Betty & Ray. Not much time for a response right now. (Am hoping for more time this weekend--I have 2 1/2 days off!). But for now, I wanted to give you a brief blurb of some topics I would like to either share or discuss with you. Please disregard if the topic line is somewhat ambiguous--some of them were typed very fast, and are meant just as much (if not more) to remind me of what to share with you, as they are to inform you of what I have to share.
Other things/topics to share with you:
1. Carty/McCarty information. A. estate/admin. papers showing James Carty Sr. to be also known as James McCarty. B. correspondence between Betty Seymour (hired researcher) & myself, discussing the Cartys in depth. 2. Discussion of "colorism." 3. Copy of Christopher Moore's "My Views" webpage. 4. Manship church: story of plot diagram. 5. Lists of bibliographical sources. (one from thesis...?) 6. Under Cott Bible "Karen Says"...Elsie B. Tuttle, not Elsie F. Tuttle. 7. Other Cott obituaries, land deeds, etc.
Thanks, and I hope to find time to elaborate soon! Take care, JCC
P.S. The web page is FANTASTIC, and far, far, FAR more in-depth than anything I had imagined when you first mentioned it. Much to discuss!
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 1:45 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Checking in...
John,
You are a delight and a blessing to be working with. We appreciate yourefforts and willingness to share. Thank you!
Attached is the stuff we are putting together for the web page. Your commentswould be appreciated.
B&R
Subj: Re: FW: Checking in...Date: 98-07-01 02:00:27 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 98-06-28 09:03:40 EDT, you write:
cemetery," or "adjacent to Whatcoat cemetery." As I mentioned, this is>where Daniel Coker was buried, who was a corporal in the "U.S. Colored>Troops" of the Civil War. Could there be a "separate" section across from>the "white" section of the cemetery? Either that, or color lines seem to>have been "relaxed" at the time Daniel and this Hardcastle person were>buried there....> JCC>>>---------->From: Ned Heite[SMTP:eheite@]>Sent: Thursday, July 02, 1998 8:17 AM>To: John C. Carter>Cc: 'Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'>Subject: RE: Hardcastles>>Are you referring to Whatcoat cemetery on North Street in Dover? That is a>white cemetery. Yes, there are black Hardcastles in Dover. Jim Hardcastle,>onetime Dover city councilman and principal of the black high school, is>the most prominent member of that family. In fact, I never met a white>Hardcastle til I left home.>>>At 6:57 AM 7/2/1998, John C. Carter wrote:>> Hmm, interesting. I've been hearing more and more bits and pieces>>regarding Hardcastles that seem to have been in Delaware prior to the>>emigration of Elizabeth Carty from Maryland with her Hardcastle-fathered>>son. This probably bears some looking into.>> Years ago a cousin once pointed out to me a tombstone in the part>>of Whatcoate Cemetery where Daniel Coker is buried, and the tombstone was>>of a Hardcastle. After I excitedly snapped a photo, I was told in a>>near-whisper that they were black, with the strong implication that they>>therefore must not be our kin.>> Ahhh, mysteries await !!>> JCC>>>>---------->>From: Ned Heite[SMTP:eheite@]>>Sent: Thursday, July 02, 1998 7:45 AM>>To: Spiff@>>Subject: Hardcastles>>>>You were remarking about a Hardcastle connection in Cheswold. I have been>>going through the poorhouse records, and I found a Dinah Hardcastle who>>died at the poorhouse 17 July 1842. In 1838 she was listed as being 60.
Subj: RE: HardcastlesDate: 98-07-02 18:37:56 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: eheite@ ('Ned Heite')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
The notes that I took down refer to "across from Whatcoat cemetery," or "adjacent to Whatcoat cemetery." As I mentioned, this is where Daniel Coker was buried, who was a corporal in the "U.S. Colored Troops" of the Civil War. Could there be a "separate" section across from the "white" section of the cemetery? Either that, or color lines seem to have been "relaxed" at the time Daniel and this Hardcastle person were buried there.... JCC
----------From: Ned Heite[SMTP:eheite@]Sent: Thursday, July 02, 1998 8:17 AMTo: John C. CarterCc: 'Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'Subject: RE: Hardcastles
Are you referring to Whatcoat cemetery on North Street in Dover? That is awhite cemetery. Yes, there are black Hardcastles in Dover. Jim Hardcastle,onetime Dover city councilman and principal of the black high school, isthe most prominent member of that family. In fact, I never met a whiteHardcastle til I left home.
At 6:57 AM 7/2/1998, John C. Carter wrote:> Hmm, interesting. I've been hearing more and more bits and pieces>regarding Hardcastles that seem to have been in Delaware prior to the>emigration of Elizabeth Carty from Maryland with her Hardcastle-fathered>son. This probably bears some looking into.> Years ago a cousin once pointed out to me a tombstone in the part>of Whatcoate Cemetery where Daniel Coker is buried, and the tombstone was>of a Hardcastle. After I excitedly snapped a photo, I was told in a>near-whisper that they were black, with the strong implication that they>therefore must not be our kin.> Ahhh, mysteries await !!> JCC>>---------->From: Ned Heite[SMTP:eheite@]>Sent: Thursday, July 02, 1998 7:45 AM>To: Spiff@>Subject: Hardcastles>>You were remarking about a Hardcastle connection in Cheswold. I have been>going through the poorhouse records, and I found a Dinah Hardcastle who>died at the poorhouse 17 July 1842. In 1838 she was listed as being 60.>
--------------------------------------
In a message dated 98-05-13 07:05:38 EDT, you write:
Not sure what you're referring to by>mentioning FRAZIER'S house....
No, Frazier's house was burned by the fire company. He had 22 acres, of which a small part was cut out for the Ford house site. On pages 78 and 79 are pictures and a floor plan.
This sounds to >me like the house went to Frazier. The next mention of the house is that>"Carlos and Elizabeth Morris celebrated their fiftieth wedding anniversary in the >house in 1956," ...then... "In 1970, Noland Morris, their son, sold the >property >out of the family to Homer Minus," ...then... "Dr. Minus gave the house to the >museum."
Right, the house was on the seven acres, then the house lot was cut out of the seven acres. Frazier's 22 acres was south of the homestead lot. On page 81, Frazier's house is K-6692, and the homestead is K-6691
> (Also, I had mentioned to Lynn a couple of years ago, that I have a >photograph of Mike and Sallie in front what is presumably the house in >question, and I'd wondered whether the museum has any photos of them on >display with the house, or whether they'd be interested in a copy of the >photo...?)
Yes! Write to Hope Z. Schladen, director. They often interpret the house in terms of the original owners, including the parlor organ.
Ned Heite
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Saturday, February 22, 1997 7:12 PMTo: 'Ned Heite'Cc: 74547.41@; belle25@; bugs@; cblume6@; JACKLYN001@; jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu; lheite@eldhorn.is; MPierce96@Subject: RE: House(s) at the Agricultural Museum
Hi, Ned. I'm confused about which house is (or isn't) at the Agricultural Museum. I've heard about the house for a few years, but have never actually been there, so I am unfamiliar with the site. Does your message below mean that the "Mike" Carney house is NOT at the museum? But isn't this the same house as the one that Noland Morris sold, since Noland was Mike's grandson? Not sure what you're referring to by mentioning FRAZIER'S house....
--For those who are unfamiliar with this family, I'll quote from my records as well as from Ned's & Cara's "A Community on McKee Road" report. William Morris "Mike" Carney married Sallie Mosely. Sallie had had a previous spouse, by which she had a son Thomas Ridgeway--or who I've heard referred to as Thomas "Carney" (apparently took his step-father's name). Mike & Sallie had at least 3 children together: Frazier, Elizabeth, and Sallie. Frazier's first wife was Emma Mosely, by whom he had 2 children, and his second wife was Nora Jackson (daughter of Nathaniel), by whom he also had 2 children. Elizabeth married Carlos Morris, son of Robert Morris & Julia Clark. Sallie, according to Ned/Cara, married Samuel Horace Durham. Among Elizabeth & Carlos' children was a son named Noland Morris.
-Ned, in your & Cara's report (page 84) it states that Mike built the house in 1893. It goes on to mention that Mike died in 1925, and that his widow Sallie had life rights until 1949. Then it mentions "After Sallie's death, Lizzie [Elizabeth] was to receive five acres of woodland and the north seven acres of the home farm. The rest was conveyed to Frazier." This sounds to me like the house went to Frazier. The next mention of the house is that "Carlos and Elizabeth Morris celebrated their fiftieth wedding anniversary in the house in 1956," ...then... "In 1970, Noland Morris, their son, sold the property out of the family to Homer Minus," ...then... "Dr. Minus gave the house to the museum." So: first, the text in the report makes it sound as if Frazier had the house, at least for a time, and second, in my "Family Tree" message/response to Michele, I'd mentioned that it was MIKE Carney's home, not Frazier's. And so I'm confused as to what you're saying in the message below. (Sorry, don't mean to sound picky, just trying to understand). :-) (Also, I had mentioned to Lynn a couple of years ago, that I have a photograph of Mike and Sallie in front what is presumably the house in question, and I'd wondered whether the museum has any photos of them on display with the house, or whether they'd be interested in a copy of the photo...?) (Also have a photo of Frazier with wife & daughter). That's all for now. Thanks! JCC
----------From: Ned Heite[SMTP:eheite@]Sent: Saturday, February 22, 1997 7:57 AMTo: John C. Carter
John's exhaustive (and most thankfully received) response to Michele'sequally interesting and appreciated post answered a few questions for me.
Frazier Carney's house was the southernmost of the houses in the Moselystretch of McKee Road, all built around the turn of the century. Like allthe others but one, it is gone. The house next door, which Nolan Morrissold in 1968, is now at the agricultuaral museum. One more house in thegroup, said to be an old schoolhouse, is still standing.
We conducted extremely limited excavations on the William Morris Carney lotin connection with the McKee Road study. I wish there were an opportunityto do more, since the house is being interpreted for the public at themuseum. Unfortunately, the owner of the lot, Dr. Homer Minus, is not veryhappy with the museum. It seems that the museum removed the house withoutcleaning the lot afterwards, and then they never thanked him for it.
Our report on the McKee Road community (#109 in the DelDOT series) isavailable from Kevin Cunningham at DelDOT if anyone is interested. Itcontains pictures, maps and sketches of all the houses that survived in1992.
We will soon be under contract for more work at McKee Road, but across theroad from the Mosely houses.
Subj: RE: House(s) at the Agricultural MuseumDate: 98-07-04 16:35:59 EDTFrom: eheite@ (Ned Heite)To: spiff@ (John C. Carter)CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi John:
Well, all the McKee Road houses are now gone. Only the one at the museum isstill standing. Right now I am doing the report on the Nathan Williams siteacross the road, and taking entirely too much time trying to fathom theorigins of Nathan. It seems that everyone agreed he was a black man. He wasliterate, and apparently was able to get some land on a contract for adeed. His wife was a mulatto, from the Hutt family that had that unpleasantencounter with the Cotts. I know nothing about the Hutts, except for theperson on the list who says he is related to some Hutts down aroundSalisbury.
If there were not always a new puzzle, I would look for another line of work.
Hope Schladen is no longer at the museum. I will get the new name-in-chief.
At 3:26 PM 7/4/1998, John C. Carter wrote:> Hi, Ned.> Can you believe I'm just now getting around to following up on>this, almost a year-and-a-half later??!!> I guess it was fortuitous, because when my aunt and uncle came>down from NJ for a visit last week, they brought with them (as a gift from>a 2nd cousin they'd recently visited) the original photograph of Mike and>Sally. Now, I am able to donate the original to the museum (if they are>interested), rather than the duplicate I previously had.> The original is rather "antique"-looking, with its sepia tone,>rather than the stark black & white of my previous duplicate.> I have just drafted a letter to the attention of Hope Z. Schladen,>per your suggestion, but am wondering if you could provide me with the>address of the museum?> I am also making the offer to them to have an enlargement made>(possibly sepia-toned), to go along-with or instead-of, the original,>since the original is rather small, only 2 1/2" x 4".> As soon as I get the address, I will send the letter to the museum>along with a photocopy of the photo, so they can let me know whether>they'd be interested.> Thanks again for your help.> JCC>>---------->From: Ned Heite[SMTP:eheite@]>Sent: Saturday, February 22, 1997 8:56 PM>To: bugs@; spiff@; 74547.41@;>belle25@; eheite@; JACKLYN001@; cblume6@;>jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu; lheite@eldhorn.is; MPierce96@>Subject: RE: House(s) at the Agricultural Museum>>>Does your message below mean that the "Mike" Carney house is NOT>>at the museum? But isn't this the same house as the one that Noland Morris>>Not sure what you're referring to by>>mentioning FRAZIER'S house....>>No, Frazier's house was burned by the fire company. He had 22 acres, of>which a small part was cut out for the Ford house site. On pages 78 and 79>are pictures and a floor plan.>> This sounds to>>me like the house went to Frazier. The next mention of the house is that>>"Carlos and Elizabeth Morris celebrated their fiftieth wedding anniversary>>in the>>house in 1956," ...then... "In 1970, Noland Morris, their son, sold the>>property>>out of the family to Homer Minus," ...then... "Dr. Minus gave the house to the>>museum.">>>Right, the house was on the seven acres, then the house lot was cut out of>the seven acres. Frazier's 22 acres was south of the homestead lot. On page>81, Frazier's house is K-6692, and the homestead is K-6691>>>> (Also, I had mentioned to Lynn a couple of years ago, that I have a>>photograph of Mike and Sallie in front what is presumably the house in>>question, and I'd wondered whether the museum has any photos of them on>>display with the house, or whether they'd be interested in a copy of the>>photo...?)>>Yes! Write to Hope Z. Schladen, director. They often interpret the house in>terms of the original owners, including the parlor organ.>>Ned Heite, P O Box 53 Camden, Delaware 19934>Icelandic wool catalogue: >Archaeological tinsmithing: >>>---------->From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]>Sent: Saturday, February 22, 1997 7:12 PM>To: 'Ned Heite'>Cc: 74547.41@; belle25@; bugs@;>cblume6@; JACKLYN001@; jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu;>lheite@eldhorn.is; MPierce96@>Subject: RE: House(s) at the Agricultural Museum>> Hi, Ned. I'm confused about which house is (or isn't) at the>Agricultural> Museum. I've heard about the house for a few years, but have never actually>been there, so I am unfamiliar with the site.> Does your message below mean that the "Mike" Carney house is NOT>at the museum? But isn't this the same house as the one that Noland Morris>sold, since Noland was Mike's grandson? Not sure what you're referring to by>mentioning FRAZIER'S house....>> --For those who are unfamiliar with this family, I'll quote from my>records as well as from Ned's & Cara's "A Community on McKee Road" report.> William Morris "Mike" Carney married Sallie Mosely. Sallie had had a>previous spouse, by which she had a son Thomas Ridgeway--or who I've heard>referred to as Thomas "Carney" (apparently took his step-father's name). Mike>& Sallie had at least 3 children together: Frazier, Elizabeth, and Sallie.> Frazier's first wife was Emma Mosely, by whom he had 2 children, and>his second wife was Nora Jackson (daughter of Nathaniel), by whom he also>had 2 children.> Elizabeth married Carlos Morris, son of Robert Morris & Julia Clark.> Sallie, according to Ned/Cara, married Samuel Horace Durham.> Among Elizabeth & Carlos' children was a son named Noland Morris.>> -Ned, in your & Cara's report (page 84) it states that Mike built the>house in 1893. It goes on to mention that Mike died in 1925, and that his>widow Sallie had life rights until 1949. Then it mentions "After Sallie's>death,>Lizzie [Elizabeth] was to receive five acres of woodland and the north seven>acres of the home farm. The rest was conveyed to Frazier." This sounds to>me like the house went to Frazier. The next mention of the house is that>"Carlos and Elizabeth Morris celebrated their fiftieth wedding anniversary>in the>house in 1956," ...then... "In 1970, Noland Morris, their son, sold the>property>out of the family to Homer Minus," ...then... "Dr. Minus gave the house to the>museum."> So:> first, the text in the report makes it sound as if Frazier had the>house,>at least for a time, and> second, in my "Family Tree" message/response to Michele, I'd>mentioned that it was MIKE Carney's home, not Frazier's.> And so I'm confused as to what you're saying in the message below.> (Sorry, don't mean to sound picky, just trying to understand). :-)> (Also, I had mentioned to Lynn a couple of years ago, that I have a>photograph of Mike and Sallie in front what is presumably the house in>question, and I'd wondered whether the museum has any photos of them on>display with the house, or whether they'd be interested in a copy of the>photo...?) (Also have a photo of Frazier with wife & daughter).> That's all for now.> Thanks!> JCC>>---------->From: Ned Heite[SMTP:eheite@]>Sent: Saturday, February 22, 1997 7:57 AM>To: John C. Carter>Cc: bugs@; spiff@; 74547.41@;>belle25@; eheite@; JACKLYN001@; cblume6@;>jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu; lheite@eldhorn.is; MPierce96@>Subject: RE: Family Tree>>John's exhaustive (and most thankfully received) response to Michele's>equally interesting and appreciated post answered a few questions for me.>>Frazier Carney's house was the southernmost of the houses in the Mosely>stretch of McKee Road, all built around the turn of the century. Like all>the others but one, it is gone. The house next door, which Nolan Morris>sold in 1968, is now at the agricultuaral museum. One more house in the>group, said to be an old schoolhouse, is still standing.>>We conducted extremely limited excavations on the William Morris Carney lot>in connection with the McKee Road study. I wish there were an opportunity>to do more, since the house is being interpreted for the public at the>museum. Unfortunately, the owner of the lot, Dr. Homer Minus, is not very>happy with the museum. It seems that the museum removed the house without>cleaning the lot afterwards, and then they never thanked him for it.>>Our report on the McKee Road community (#109 in the DelDOT series) is>available from Kevin Cunningham at DelDOT if anyone is interested. It>contains pictures, maps and sketches of all the houses that survived in>1992.>>We will soon be under contract for more work at McKee Road, but across the>road from the Mosely houses.
Ned Heite, Camden, DE
Subj: RE: Talbot County QueryDate: 98-07-04 23:53:47 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: dymphna711@ ('Terri Morris')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), eheite@ ('Heite, Ned (eheite@)')
Hi, Terri. Sorry, I don't think I'll be much help to you in trying to track down your Morris. My Morris line was also from the Talbot Co, MD area, but is apparently from an older immigration than yours. I've only relatively recently discovered my Morris line, and all I have on them so far is Eleanor Morris, (daughter of John Morris) who married Andrew Orem. They have been described as Quakers. This is quite early in Maryland history, as Eleanor & Andrew's son Morris Orem was born in 1688. I would appreciate anything you might come across on them, and I will keep your message for reference in case I come across anything on your Morris family. I'm sorry I was not of more help. Good luck, John C. Carter St. Petersburg, FL spiff@ P.S. I'm cc'ing a couple of other people, who perform a lot of research in the wider area, in case they've happened across anything relevant.
----------From: Terri Morris[SMTP:dymphna711@]Sent: Saturday, July 04, 1998 5:18 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Talbot County Query
I have been trying to trace my surname, Morris, for some time now. There is a family story handed down that 3 Morris brothers came from Liverpool some time between 1745 and 1748. Their names were Robert, John, and Jesse. It has also been handed down that my ancestor, John Morris, was related to Robert Morris, who was a congressional delegate from Pennsylvania. The info I have on Robert is that he came here from Liverpool in 1747 when he was 13 to join his father in Oxford, MD. There is no mention of Robert's father's name, only that he was a tobacco exporter at Oxford. I have hit a fork in the road with John. There are at least three John Morris' with similar info. I thought that if I traced this Robert Morris, it might somehow help with my ancestor. If you have any information on this branch of the Morris family, I would greatly appreciate it, and if there is anything I can possibly help you with, please let me know.
Sincerely,
Teresa Morris Darlington, South Carolina
______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at
Subj: Revolutionary Era grain recordsDate: 98-07-06 20:07:35 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'),
Hello. Just wanted to let you all know that I received the copies of the Revolutionary Era grain records today from the Delaware Archives. Thanks, Chuck, for providing me with the reference, and Thanks, Ned, for hooking me up with the Archives folks. Some of you have already asked, but I plan to send photocopies to any of you who are interested, and also plan to try (note key word: TRY) to transcribe all of the data to post in an e-mail to the entire group, since there are a few other names that I'm sure will be of interest. The writing is very hard to make out, however. It might take me a day or two to complete, but watch for it soon. Thanks again, everyone! JCC
Subj: FW: Delaware Tombstone InscriptionsDate: 98-07-07 07:06:07 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
For your info. JCC
----------From: Sallay@[SMTP:Sallay@]Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 12:03 PMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: Delaware Tombstone Inscriptions
Delaware Tombstone Inscriptions published in the Maryland and DelawareGenealogistvol. 3, No. 3, 1962. Raymond B. Clarke, Jr. EditorContributed by Mrs. Hubert B. Tharp, Seaford, De.
Cemetery Across from Armory, Georgetown, Sussex Co., DelawareRev. William A. Webster, d. 1890, age 48 yearsJonathan Robinson Torbert, d. 1853, age 50 yearsCatherine A. Torbert, d. 1881, age 75 yearsMrs. Elizabeth Short, d. 1851, age 65 yearsPillip Short, d. 1817, age 71 years (b. 1746)William S. Short, d. 1875, age 60 yearsMary E., wife of William P. Wolfe, 1832-1883Mary P. wife of James A. Wolfe, d. 1863, age 25 yearsJames Alfred Wolfe, 1825-1867Mary M. wife of Capt. John S. Atkins, 1834-1901George Torbert, 1817-1897Jane Torbert, d. 1873Prudence D. wife of Rev. David Dodd, d. 1897, age 69Rev. David Dodd, b. 1830, d. 1896
The Church by The River, Woodland or Cannon's Ferry, Sussex Co., DelawareJulia A. Hall, June 9, 1816 - March 27, 1886Luraney Boling, November 20, 1778 - Aug. 17, 1814William A. Massey, 1881-1947Albert S. Davis, March 25, 1906 - Feb. 17, 1934William B. Huston, January 19, 1883 - aged 53 y., 4 m, 11 daMaggie E., wife of William S. Williams, d. February 17, 1838, aged 23 y, 5 m,23 daSallie L., wife of James T. Lawrence, February 20, 1850 - March 28, 1914May E., dau. of J.W. and Minnie M. Boyce, September 8, 1910 - March 18, 1917William C. Bannester, 1830-1901Isabella Bannester, 1830-1911Arzilla Massey, 1862-1921Elihue, son of J. T. and Annie E. Hasting, February 12, 1895 - February 14,1895Bertha M., dau. of J.T. and Annie E. Hasting, November 4, 1894 - January 1,1895Gillles Hastings, October 8, 1835 - October 10, 1894Thomas E. Dean, March 20, 1844 - May 29, 1912Anna A., wife of Horace H. Dean, October 67, 1857-August 14, 1923John Fluharty 1868-1935Zenephene Fluharty, 1861-1935Myrtle G. Fluharty, September 10, 1917 - October 16, 1918Isaac T. Conaway, November 26, 1855 - October 9, 1935Caroline Conaway, April 2, 1859 - July 16, 1924Lida A. Sullivan, d. December 13, 1907J. Myers Sullivan, d. June 13, 1941Jacob Cannon, September 10, 1843, aged 62 y., 7 mEthel M. Eskridge, August 30, 1908 - January 9, 1922John P. Delaney, July 16, 1854 - March 21, 1926Solomon Dean, d. September 11, 1923, aged 54 yearsArzela Jane, wife of J.W. Knowle, d. January 22, 1916, aged 59 yearsLilline Hammond, 1900-1937, aged 37 yearsWilliam Hammond, 1936-1937, aged 15 mCapt. F.J. Bauer, 1870-1949John C. Boyman, d. November 1952, aged 65 yearsMartha Massey, 1884-1910Nancy Rose, wife of Wm.A. Denn, d. October 11, 1888, Aged 67 years, 9 m.., 4daHattie B. Hudson, September 28, 1875 - December 11, 1886Harvey W., son of J.S. & Ella Lyons, d. January 12, 1896James S. Lyons, September 25, 1844 - July 21, 1901Lottie Brown, November 6, 1901 - November 25, 1901J. Albert Sullivan, January 7, 1867 - April 13, 1959Elizabeth Cannon, widow of Jacob Cannon, 1742-1828
Church at Odessa, New Castle County, DelawareHenry P. Baker, 1815-1878John Whitby, 1802-1871Daniel B. McKee, 1809-1858Lydia Derrickson, d. 1872, age 67Mary Derrickson, 1804-1887Phebe L. Walker, d. 1879, age 83Sarah A. Boskett, 1799-1870John Kielkopf, 1821-1853Sophia A., 1821-1878Levi Henderson, 1796-1842Eleanor Henderson, 1808-1839Barsheba Tattman, d. 1842, age 77Charles Tattman, d. 1887, age 96Mary Appleton, d. 1882, age 70 yearsEsther Davis, 1830-1900Elizabeth Davis, d. 1874, age 73Mark Davis, d. 1868, age 72
Near King's Church, Sussex County, DelawareWm. C. King, 1818-1884Hettie A., wife of James H. Jermon, d. 1877, age 29Theodosia E., wife of Philip A. Hearn, d. 1876, age 19Mariah E. dau. of Wm. C. & Sarah A. King, d. 1857, age 11 yearsJohn W., son of Wm. C. & Ann M. King, d. 1855, age 1 yearSarah Ann, wife of Wm. C .King, d. 1852, age 28 years
Farm South of Georgetown, DelawareLouisa G. Goslee, d. 1864, age 20George H. Goslee, d. 1862, age 21William Goslee, d. 1853 age 68William Goslee d. 1834, age 63Mary William, dau. of Benjamin P. & Zilla Goslee, d. 1852Lydia, dau. of Wm. & Letty Goslee, d. 1848, age 25William, son of Wm. & Letty d. 1846, age 33 (?)
St. John's Methodist Church, East of Georgetown AirportWilliam S. Stewart, son of David & Hettie, b. 1852, d. 1875Tamer Johnson, b. 1816, d. 1833, age 77Addie Johnson, dau. of Nathaniel & Tamer Johnson, d. 1885, age 28Edward Short, b. 1806, d. 1874, age 68
Old Methodist Cemetery, located near American Legion House, Seaford, DelawareMary Emma, dau. of J.M. & Mary M. Blades, d. 1867, age14 yearsJames M. Blades, d. 1881, age 62Maria, dau. of Planner & Athea Williams, (no dates)
Graveyard near Knowles Cross RoadsJohn P. Conaway, d. 18873, age 52Lavina, d. 1874, age 54, b. 1820James, d. 1866, age 71, b. 1795
______________________________
Subj: Transcripts of Revolutionary Era grain recordsDate: 98-07-07 22:23:06 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
Hello, everyone. As a few of you already know, I have been working recently on trying to document the notation that John Durham Sr, William Conselar, and James Dean contributed grain toward the cause of the American Revolution. This notation was originally brought forth in information posted to the group by Chuck Counceller back in April. He acquired the information from Family Tree Maker CD #133. After getting the souce of the CD info from Chuck, the trail led to the Delaware Archives, for which Ned Heite provided me with an e-mail address, etc, for ordering copies. (Thanks again, Chuck & Ned!) I received the copies yesterday, and decided to try to post all the names & data here for the group, in case there are any names of interest to others which might not be of recognizable interest to me. Following is the information:
(Wherever you see zzz's, it means the data is illegible--at least to me).
---------------------
FIRST SET OF COPIES:
---------------------
Sam'l Freemans Retzzzz of the grain taken in for the use of the Continant. [sic]
1781. An account of grain taken in for the use of the continant [sic] by Sam'l Freeman.
March 24th
2 1/2 bushels of corn for the minors of Abraham Moor, dec'd.7 1/2 do. of do. from Allen Whitehart
March 28th
12 1/2 do. of do. from Daniel Durham
April 6
19 do. of do. from Dan'l. Stevens
April 15
19[?] do. from John Durham of oats10 do. of corn from Isaiah Durham
April 16
19 do. of oats from James Dean
April 19
7 1/2 do. of corn from Isaac Miller
April 22
22 1/2 do. of oats from Wm. Corse[?] Jr.
April 29
30 do. of oats from Sam'l. Whitezzzz [prob. Whitehart--see below]11 do. of do. from Oliver Black Negro
April 30
104 do. of do. from John Frazer[?] x7 1/2 do. of corn from Charles Smith5 do. of do. from Jonathan Huse[?]18 do. of do. from James Stirling[?] & 10 1/2 of oats2 1/2 do. of do. from Jeremiah Reed[?] Jr.7 1/2 do. of do. from Sam'l. Freeman & 4 of oats7 1/2 do. of do. from Sam'l. Whitehart7 1/2 do. of do. from John Hart7 1/2 do. of do. from George Hart25 do. of do. from Francis[?] Barber3 1/2 do. of do. from the Heirs from the Heirs [sic] of Ja. Snow[?]10 do. of do. from James Smith10 do. of do. from Charles Green7 1/2 do. of do. from Anthony Snow25 do. of do. from Daniel Durbarow[?]1 1/4 do. of do. from Tho. Gold7 1/2 do. of do. from Nicolass[?] Clark1 1/4 do. of do. from Tho. Albany3 3/4 do. of do. from James Morgan5 do. of do. from Wm. Manering[?]10 do. of do. from John Goldsmith17 do. of do. from Charles Doney19 do. of do. from Wm. Durham12 1/2 do. of do. from Isaiah Morgan5 do. of do. from Soloman Mumphard[?]18 1/2 do. of do. from robert Redgester[?]10[?] [or] 90[?] do. of do. from James Hutcheson12 1/2 do. of do. from John Rees[?]7 1/2 do. of do. from Debarix Miller33 1/2 do. of do. from John Cowgil2 1/2 do. of do. from Sam'l Freeman15 do. of do. from Francis Keith[?] [or] Heath[?]7 1/2 do. of do. from John P[?]arker2 1/2 do. of do. from James Wells Sen.[?]31 3/4 do. of do. from James[?] Eubanks
---------------------
SECOND SET OF COPIES:
---------------------
1781 Augst 30 Publick wheat taken in for grace[?] Carley Zzzzz
[column headers]: Bushel Quart[amounts omitted for ease of transcribing]
James SteelEdward BuramJohn StensonWidow WestThomas ButcherEdward BuramJohn ChickenWilliam DzznelPatrick ConerThomas ButcherJames VandykeDaniel JamesJohn Perce[?]Jaremiah CahonWilliam BarkosJohn WelsNathaniel NottsBob Derry negroDavid LuesRichard BurisMathew HazelDavid GrifenSeser[?] RowWilliam ConselorRobart WatkinsJosaph BarkosNathaniel KeithAndrew GrahamPatrick McDezzzzJames BurisJames DarlinAbram BothNemrod Denis negSam negroWilliam GriffithWilliam Trystey negMuloson CareyCharles TuleyDavid McCall negWilliam DycosSamuel TipetJohn PowelWiliam Frond[?]Robart DarlinMathew MontgomerySamuel WoodAbrm negroSarah BakerJames Petreson [sic]Eliga[?] BurisGeorge BurisSamuel GreenleeJohn WarentonMary BeardDavid G[?]ormanJohn FrondJ[?]esey FrondThos. Greenwod [sic]James GarlinAbrm PersonsWidow Johns[?]Mary McCalebJosaph NockBathia HazelSesar Smith neWiliam WilsonStephen DereyCafey [Casey?] WilsonJohn Win[?]John Heas[?]Wiliam Grifeth mil[?]Andrew TyboutPres[?] Alec[?] minorsJohn More minorsJohn Vanludn[?]John BarnsPetr. negroJohn GreenwoodJames BarnetWidow Alec[?] of Abrm[?]Francis TaylorJohn VanhazelJames MarfeldJohnathan ShervenJames DoneyCharles EmoryGiden[?] EmoryElisa BoyerJames Roth[?]Jacob Armstrong ngJames TipatJacob Giersons[?] negJames TownsonDaniel EadsMary FowlerSalvestor GrantonDaniel Money
Rye
[column headers]: Bushel Quart[amounts omitted for ease of transcribing]
Moses ThompsonThomas Parks[?]John WarentonAbram CockleyJames Morris ^ zzz zzzzz
Corn
[column headers]: Bushel Quart[amounts omitted for ease of transcribing]
Charles Liland[?]Stephen Marcor[?]C[?]ambeth Windagel[?]Mosas Thompson
---------------------
THIRD SET OF COPIES:
---------------------
Return of Forage Issued at the Post at Cantwells Bridge by Joshua Williams Comzzzzzzzzz
[amounts omitted for ease of transcribing]
1780
No. of vouchers To whom issued
July 31 1 John West 2zzzz Col. Neill's Reg't.
Decem'r. 26 2 Charles Sneed Lieut. 9th Virg. Reg't.
1781
Jan'y. 9 3 John Smith Cont. Wagg. by order W. Heltzheimer
William Millan[?] Rev Sup. to his horse from the 4th day of May 1780 to this day 261 days
Forage for my own horse from the 15th July to this day 185 days
Cantwells Bridge 20th January 1781 I certify the above to be just & true to the best of my knowledge Joshua Williams
Subj: RE: Revolutionary Era grain recordsDate: 98-07-08 21:42:03 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), ccc47331@si- ('Counceller, Chuck (ccc47331@si-)'), eheite@ ('Heite, Ned (eheite@)'), hmuncey@ ('Muncey, Harry (hmuncey@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)')
Hello, all. Just got back from the Post Office about 1/2 hour ago, and mailed photocopies of the grain records to each of you. Enjoy! JCC
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Monday, July 06, 1998 8:00 PMTo: 'Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'; 'Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'; 'Counceller, Chuck (ccc47331@si-)'; 'Heite, Ned (eheite@)'; 'Muncey, Harry (hmuncey@)'; 'Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)'Subject: Revolutionary Era grain records
Hello. Just wanted to let you all know that I received the copies of the Revolutionary Era grain records today from the Delaware Archives. Thanks, Chuck, for providing me with the reference, and Thanks, Ned, for hooking me up with the Archives folks. Some of you have already asked, but I plan to send photocopies to any of you who are interested, and also plan to try (note key word: TRY) to transcribe all of the data to post in an e-mail to the entire group, since there are a few other names that I'm sure will be of interest. The writing is very hard to make out, however. It might take me a day or two to complete, but watch for it soon. Thanks again, everyone! JCC
Subj: Re: Revolutionary Era grain recordsDate: 98-07-09 13:01:55 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
John,
You must have bony fingers by now from so much typing! An enormous amount of work recently posted -- thanks, and thanks for sending the grain listings on to us. Looking forward to receiving them.
B&R
Subj: FW: Another researcherDate: 98-07-11 10:20:43 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
Hello, everyone. Just thought I would introduce to those of you who haven't met her through e-mail yet: Patti Muncey Carpenter. She is a "near"-cousin of group member Harry Muncey, who most of you know, and is descended from Robert Munce Jr, (b. ca. 1810), son of Robert Munce Sr (b.ca. 1770). Her line continues down through Robert Jr's son, James Henry Muncey (1837-1919) and James' wife Hester Annie Cork (1841-1904) (Same branch as Harry). Also like Harry, through Hester Cork, she is therefore also descended from the Conselars, Durhams, and Hewes'. Please include her on any messages pertaining to these families, or to the focus of the group as a whole. Her e-mail address is: bennettj@ Thanks! JCCSubj: [#1] RE: Jemima Hansor Munce/Jemima Oakey Munson (One in the same?)Date: 98-07-12 17:23:56 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: bennettj@ ('Carpenter, Patti Muncey (bennettj@)')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), hmuncey@ ('Muncey, Harry (hmuncey@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)')
Hi, Patti. The Handsor vs. Okea discrepancy has been discussed before. I will forward you some previous message-chains on the subject. Thanks. JCC
----------From: Bennett Carpenter[SMTP:bennettj@]Sent: Sunday, July 12, 1998 11:21 AMTo: Harry MunceyCc: Patti @ home; John Carter (Muncey)Subject: Fw: Jemima Hansor Munce/Jemima Oakey Munson (One in the same?)
Harry or John,
Can either of you help me out here? Lyn noticed it but does not have an answer- other than the continued Hansor/Oakey mystery in later generations or a possible death certificate error. What do you think?
Patti
-----Original Message-----From: Bennett Carpenter To: jacklyn001@ Cc: Patti @ home Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 7:04 PM
Lynn,
Help me understand. My family records say Hansor like your Munce/Muncey line says but this death certificate you posted make it look like Okea (Okey) rather than Hansor. I know there was some question about the first Hansor origination but surely the death certificate would not have a totally different last name for the mother would it? Maybe thats why I am having trouble with it...Had you notice it?
I don't think I am out in right field thinking Munson is Muns son-Robert Junior and Jemima am I?
I love what your doing and am a devote follower. My net time is much shorter than I'd like-two small children keep me busy- but I check on you first every time!
Patti Muncey Carpenter
Dean, Angelina Munson
a.. female / Negro / widow b.. born: November 25, 1843 c.. age: 73 years d.. occupation: housework e.. father: Robert Munson f.. mother: Jemima Okea g.. died" February 1, 1917 h.. cause of death: broncho-pneumonia i.. buried: Swing Cemetery j.. Robert Munce Jr. Robert was born in Delaware sometime around 1810. He was the son of Robert Munce Sr. On 20 May, 1832 he married Jemima HANSOR who was born in Delaware c.1813. I don't have any information about Jemima but she was undoubtably a member of the mixed race Hansor family, either the Kent or Sussex counties line. Robert and Jemima had the following children: 1.. Lydia Munce (1832- 1908) married Benjamin Sammons 2.. Josiah Munce (1835- ) married Caroline Dean 3.. Isaiah Munce (1835-1905) married Elmira Carty 4.. James H. Munce (1837-1919) married Hester Ann CORK 5.. Daniel Munce (c.1838- bef. 1850) 6.. Margaret Munce (c.1840-bef. 1850) 7.. Mary Elizabeth Munce (8 Sept.1841- ) 8.. Hannah Munce (c.1843- ) 9.. Angelina Munce (1845- ) married Enoch Dean 10.. Angelica Munce (1848-1919) married George Miller 11.. Robert Munce (1850- ) married Martha 12.. Nehemiah Munce (1853- ) 13.. Jeremiah Munce (1855- ) I have no information about when Robert or Jemima died. They do not appear in any census records after 1850 but it is believed by some that Robert Sr. was still alive in 1870.
Subj: [#2] FW: Dean PaperDate: 98-07-12 17:23:56 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: bennettj@ ('Carpenter, Patti Muncey (bennettj@)')
Hi, Patti. Here's a chain from over a year ago, where Jemina's possible Okea name was mentioned. Also, regarding Robert's name being Munson, it's been clear that the name has been interpreted or has changed over the years, through the different branches. Rose "Sweetsie" Ridgeway, in our group, had Munson as a maiden name, and her line goes back to Charles Henry Muncey/Munson. (Harry: Do we know how Charles fits in with "our" Munceys? I don't have anything further back on him). Other branches, such as Lester "Tony" Muntz's became spelled as Muntz. (Harry, Lynn & Betty: Do we know how his line fits in? Just realized I can only go back to Tony's father, William Muntz). (Geez, I thought I had all these people connected! Good thing you asked about them, Patti!) JCC
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Saturday, March 15, 1997 6:57 PMTo: 'JACKLYN001@'Subject: RE: Dean Paper
Lynn: Hi! (Trying to get caught up here!)
< Snip >
Regarding #5, below: Just tried to find Harry's reference to "Morvey," but couldn't locate it. Will keep looking. But, it seems that I remember him stating that this was a nickname for her FIRST name, not a surname or maiden name.
That's all for this one. JCC
----------From: JACKLYN001@[SMTP:JACKLYN001@]Sent: Monday, February 24, 1997 3:46 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Dean Paper
Greetings ,
Received your notes today...THANKS!!!!!...yes , there are a few real boners.That's what comes from rushing.
< Snip >
5) I think the name is JEMIMA but I've seen it spelled both ways. Nehemiah Hansors will spells it JemiMa , and the census spells it with an "M". I didn't remember Jemina "Okes or Okea" ......god , please don't let it be " Oakey " :-) Wasn't it Harry who brought up "Morvey"????
< Snip >
THANKS AGAIN!!!!Lynn
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Saturday, February 22, 1997 7:18 PMTo: 'JACKLYN001@'Subject: RE: Draft of the Dean Paper
Hi, Lynn. Just wanted to let you know that I sent you a copy of your Dean paper (including comments) in today's mail, so you should have it in a couple of days.
< Snip >
[Among my comments and notes snail-mailed to Lynn were the following]: -- Enoch's middle initial was M., according to Harry. -- Enoch & Angelina are in Cumberland County, NJ in 1910 census, ages 82 & 66, both listed as "BL" race. -- Photos were included with Cott Bible & photos from Michigan. -- Isn't Angelina's mother's name JemiNa, not JemiMa? -- Angelina's death certificate is the one that lists her parents as Robert Munson & Jemina Okes or Okea.
< Snip >
Take care, JCC
----------From: JACKLYN001@[SMTP:JACKLYN001@]Sent: Monday, February 17, 1997 9:36 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Draft of the Dean Paper
Hi John ,
< Snip >
I did a rough draft on the Deans which I'm attaching. In your "spare time"(ha ha ) , I'd appreciate your comments.
THANKS!!!Lynn
Subj: [#3] FW: Ann Jemina HansorDate: 98-07-12 17:24:05 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: bennettj@ ('Carpenter, Patti Muncey (bennettj@)')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), hmuncey@ ('Muncey, Harry (hmuncey@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)')
Hi, Patti. Here's a message-chain from back in February. By the way, I have photos of both Enoch Sr, and Angelina. The original of Angelina was a tin-type, which I gave to Harry years ago in California, and I kept a photo-duplicated copy. JCC
----------From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]Sent: Sunday, February 15, 1998 9:29 PMTo: AquaBettyCc: spiff@Subject: Ann Jemina Hansor
Dear Betty,
I've heard the Okea story before but have never seen any proof. RobertMunce's marriage bond is quite clear. He thought he was marrying JeminaHansor. Their son James H. Munce calls his parents Robert & Ann JeminaMunce on his marriage record. Apparently his mother used her middlename. My wife's gr gm did the same thing. Her real name was Mary Jane(Fee) McKee. The records all call her Jane.
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Saturday, February 14, 1998 6:52 PMTo: 'AquaBetty@'Subject: RE: Descendants of Jesse and Hester (Carney) Dean
Hi, Betty & Ray: Sorry to be a little late with this, but thought I would add a couple of tidbits on your inquiry on Enoch Dean Sr, among others. Although his wife's (Angelina's) maiden name is usually identified as "Munson," she was actually the daughter of Robert Munce Jr and Jemina Handsor* (see * below), so somehow the "Munce" became "Munson," similar to the cases where "Munce" became "Muncey" or "Muntz." (I don't mean to imply that "Munce" was the original spelling by any means...after all, who knows what it was prior to Robert Munce Jr or Sr? And their names were spelled many ways. There have even been cases of a Robert "Muns" discovered). Where did you obtain her middle initial as "M"? Actually, my records have Enoch Sr's middle initial as "M," but I'm not sure where I obtained this. *Just remembered and noticed that Angelina's death certificate lists her parents' names as "Robert Munson and Jemina Okea" or "Okes." Not sure how to explain the discrepancy. Perhaps Harry or Ned could shed some light.... Anyway, my records indicate that Enoch Sr. and [Angelina] had at least two children: 1. William Dean, born ca. 1867, married Elizabeth Driggus. 2. Enoch Dean Jr., born ?, died 19 Dec 1951 or 50, in Mannington, Salem Co, NJ. That's about all I have on them. (Just had a thought: is this the line that Bryan Huneycutt is descended from?) Let me know if you have any questions. JCC P.S. Are you utilizing the info in the GEDCOM I sent you?
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Friday, January 30, 1998 3:23 PMTo: sstreet@; JACKLYN001@; bugs@; c.hall@csu-Subject: Descendants of Jesse and Hester (Carney) Dean
To all--
Would appreciate learning more about the descendants of the followingmarriages, as outlined at the bottom of this message:
< Snip >
--Enoch DEAN, born 14 Dec 1833 in Little Creek Hundred, Kent, Delaware. Hemarried Angeline M. MUNSON.
< Snip >
All info will be added to the Dean paper and distributed to you, if you wish.
B&R Terry
Date: 98-07-12 18:16:41 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
Hi. Forgot to cc you guys on this 4th message. JCC
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Sunday, July 12, 1998 6:16 PMTo: 'Bennett Carpenter'Subject: [#4] RE: Jemima Hansor Munce/Jemima Oakey Munson (One in the same?)
Hi, again, Patti. I forgot to comment on the dates & info of the children of Robert Munce Jr. & Jemina, below. I'll add any extra info I have, in between your info. JCC
----------From: Bennett Carpenter[SMTP:bennettj@]Sent: Sunday, July 12, 1998 11:21 AMTo: Harry MunceyCc: Patti @ home; John Carter (Muncey)Subject: Fw: Jemima Hansor Munce/Jemima Oakey Munson (One in the same?)
< Snip >
-----Original Message-----From: Bennett Carpenter To: jacklyn001@ Cc: Patti @ home Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 7:04 PM
< Snip >
Robert and Jemima had the following children: 1.. Lydia Munce (1832- 1908) married Benjamin Sammons JCC: I have her b.date as Sep 1832 2.. Josiah Munce (1835- ) married Caroline Dean JCC: I have Josiah as the 3rd child, b. ca. 1836. 3.. Isaiah Munce (1835-1905) married Elmira Carty JCC: I have Isaiah "Zadock/Zaddock/Zeddick" as the 2nd child, b. Mar 1835, died 02 Jun 1905. (He was a Civil War vet, and is buried in Manship/Immanuel Union Cemetery. Do you have copies of his Civil War papers? I can send you copies if you'd like). Elmira Carty/Carter was my great-grandfather Hopewell Carter's first cousin. 4.. James H. Munce (1837-1919) married Hester Ann CORK JCC: I have James Henry Munce/Muncey's b.date as 20 Aug 1837, and d.date as 29 Mar 1919. 5.. Daniel Munce (c.1838- bef. 1850) 6.. Margaret Munce (c.1840-bef. 1850) 7.. Mary Elizabeth Munce (8 Sept.1841- ) JCC: I have Mary Elizabeth's d.date as 08 Nov 1914. She m. Nehemiah Morris Sammons, brother of the Benjamin Sammons who m. sister Lydia, above. 8.. Hannah Munce (c.1843- ) 9.. Angelina Munce (1845- ) married Enoch Dean JCC: I (and you) have Angelina Munce/Munson's b.date as 25 Nov 1843, and d.date as 01 Feb 1917. She m. Enoch on 30 Jul 1863. 10.. Angelica Munce (1848-1919) married George Miller 11.. Robert Munce (1850- ) married Martha JCC: I have Robert's b.date as Aug 1850. 12.. Nehemiah Munce (1853- ) JCC: I have Nehemiah's d.date as 07 Mar 1904. 13.. Jeremiah Munce (1855- ) I have no information about when Robert or Jemima died. They do not appear in any census records after 1850 but it is believed by some that Robert Sr. was still alive in 1870.
Subj: Re: [#2] FW: Dean PaperDate: 98-07-12 20:59:35 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 98-07-12 17:23:56 EDT, you write:
It took awhile---thanks!! A lot of it is on line. If you can send evidences as to relationships, please do so.
If we can find a way to convert DBASE3 files (Manship and Fork Branch Cemeteries) to a presentable form on the web site, would love to make each a biographical directory, incorporating obituary and other info to go with each name.
B&R
Subj: RE: William MuntzDate: 98-07-12 20:57:30 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: JACKLYN001@ ('JACKLYN001@')CC: AquaBetty@ (AquaBetty@), bennettj@ (bennettj@), hmuncey@ (hmuncey@)
RE: William Muntz: I have notes from Maybelle that say the Isaiah and Elmira Carty Muntz had a foster son: William Muntz who married Sally Durham . She lists them as the parents of Tony Muntz (and Madge, Lawrence, Daniel, Presley, Caroline & Marty)
Hi, Lynn. I think you forgot one: Horace. Thanks. JCC
Subj: FW: William MuntzDate: 98-07-13 05:36:25 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Betty & Ray. See Lynn's note below. It seems she is listing William as the illegitimate/adopted one, and you have Tony (Lester). Were both adopted? JCC
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Sunday, July 12, 1998 8:37 PMTo: 'JACKLYN001@'Cc: AquaBetty@; bennettj@; hmuncey@Subject: RE: William Muntz
RE: William Muntz: I have notes from Maybelle that say the Isaiah and Elmira Carty Muntz had a foster son: William Muntz who married Sally Durham . She lists them as the parents of Tony Muntz (and Madge, Lawrence, Daniel, Presley, Caroline & Marty)
Hi, Lynn. I think you forgot one: Horace. Thanks. JCC
----------From: JACKLYN001@[SMTP:JACKLYN001@]Sent: Sunday, July 12, 1998 7:11 PMTo: spiff@; bennettj@Cc: AquaBetty@; hmuncey@Subject: Re: [#2] FW: Dean Paper
Greetings,
I think the various spellings (Munce/Muntz , Hansor/Handsor/Hanzer, Ridgeway/Ridgway etc) can be chalked up to the fact that there often WAS no "correct" spelling. The recorders were simply recording their versions of the names and since most of the subjects were probably illiterate or semi-literate; who would correct them.
Even Shakespeare spelled his name 3 different ways :')
RE: William Muntz: I have notes from Maybelle that say the Isaiah and Elmira Carty Muntz had a foster son: William Muntz who married Sally Durham. She lists them as the parents of Tony Muntz (and Madge, Lawrence, Daniel, Presley, Caroline & Marty)
Lynn
Subj: FW: Delaware Tombstone InscriptionsDate: 98-07-13 20:50:40 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
For your info. JCC
----------From: Sallay@[SMTP:Sallay@]Sent: Monday, July 13, 1998 12:55 PMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: Delaware Tombstone Inscriptions
More Tombstone Inscriptions as published in The Maryland & DelawareGenealogist, Raymond B. Clark, Jr. Editor, Contributed by Mrs. Hubert B.Tarp, Seaford, De.
Continued from Vol. 3, #3, Spring 1962
Graveyard in the Vicinity of Gum's X-Roads, Nanticoke Hundred, Sussex Co., De.Betsey Conaway, d July 31, 1872, aged 57 yearsNoble Conaway, d. 1880, aged 67 yearsJames N. Conaway, d. 1867, aged 23 years
Vol. IV, #2, April 1963Cemetery Near Bacon's Switch District (East of Alternate Route 13) LittleCreek HundredLevin E. Baker, 1865-1942Levin W. Coffin, 1837-1911Willia A., wife of Levin W. Coffin, 1846-1933James E. Culver, 1832-1902Benjamin W. Parker, 1848-1926Amanda, wife of Benjamin W. Parker, 1852 ----Elija Culver, d. 1886Martha E. Culver, 1847-1871Sallie A., wife of Charles F. Ellis, d. 1916, age 54 yearsGrandfather, James Hill, 1775-1855Sarah E. Hill, 1849-1870Sallie A. Hill, 1836-1913Elizabeth A. Hill, 1826-1862Levi J. Hill, 1825-1897George A. Hill, 1875-1888Willard W. Hill, 1865-1938Minerva W. Hill, 1869-1934Fannie Hill Moore, 1873-1953Levin Harlan Hill, 1877-1959Mamie Hill, 1883-----Eliza Ann Hill, 1867-1959Cardelia Hill, 1871-1958Arthur Hill, 1880-1958Mary Caroline, wife of Luther W. Turpin, 1854-1915Luther W. Turpin, 1848-1901
Cemetery on East Side of Old Stage Road between Hearn's X Roads & Delmar,LittleCreek HundredSallie E., wife of John A. Sullivan, b. May 8, 1836, d. Au. 9, 1911John A. Sullivan, b. June 3, 1826, d. Aug. 6, 1900, age 71 yrs, 2 mo. 3 daysMary E. dau. of Isaac & Jane Sullivan, b. Feb. 6, 1820, d. Oct. 5, 1896
Cemetery Near Flowers' Station, Seaford HundredWilliam Allen, d. Sept. 6, 1877, age 75 yrs., 8 mos.John A. Vickers, d. Sept. 17, 1811, age 23 yrs. 8 mos.
Vol. IV, #3, July 1963
Cemetery Between Laurel and Bacon Switch, West of Route 13, Little CreekHundredThomas Bacon, 1829-1903Amelia Anna, 1836-1913Mary J. Bacon, 1857Anne E. Bacon, 1862Sallie Bacon, 1868Robert Bacon 1871Mary K. Hearn, Sussex Co., Dec. 12, 1804--Apr. 29, 1887Minos H. Hearn, son, 1846-1904John L. Bacon 1826-1911Joseph Bacon, 1861-1916Oscar Bacon, 1866-1926Emma Bacon, 1870-1926Sophie Ella Bacon, 1857-19-----
Cemetery Near Carey's Camp, Gumboro HundredMandy S., wife of William P. Carey, Feb. 28, 1824--Mar. 17, 1889Louey W., wife of Elija W. Carey, June 2, 1800---Sept.17, 1878Elija W. Carey, Nov. 2, 1801--Mar. 24, 1887Lavenia E. Carey, Mar. 28, 1836--Oct. 19, 1904Margaret R., wife of Ephraim W. Lowe, Aug.,. 17, 1837--Nov. 23, 1897James W. Layton, Feb. 7, 1826--June 1, 1900Thomas J. Jones, June 17, 1845--Dec. 19, 1896Mary J. Jones, Sept. 25, 1849--Feb. 21, 1930Mary E. Jones 1847--1916Kingsbury Pusey, son of Hamilton and Nancy Pusey, 1836--1913Peter J. Mitchell, 1854--1930Sallie A. Mitchell, 1850--1927William M. son, 1850--1927Nancy Ella, wife of John H. Day, 1848--1900
Cemetery on Peter Gordy Farm, Gumboro Hundred near Little HillJesse T. Downs, 1818-1905Cyna Cannon - 1802-1878Nancey H., wife of Cyrus, d. 1872, age 65 years, 1 mo. 4 daysJames M. Gordy, Aug. 10, 1866--June 11, 1897Sallie C. wife of James M. Gordy, May 29, 1867--June 11, 1895Peter B., 1825-1895Rebecca W., wife of Peter Gordy, 1828-1906
Cemetery near Little Hill Church, Gumboro HundredEbenezer Hearne, son of Thomas & Sally B., b. 1717, d. 1785His wife, Priscilla Fooks d. 1796Note: they were buried 2 1/2 miles southeast of Little Hill Church
Cemetery in the Vicinity of Middleford, Nanticoke Hundred, Sussex CountyJoseph A. Collins, April 1810--June 1881Hannah J. Collins, wife of Joseph, 1805-1883H. Joe Collins, 1847-1917
______________________________
Subj: FW: JACKSON, HOLLEGER, WALL,, SCHULERDate: 98-07-25 01:03:15 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), eheite@ ('Heite, Ned (eheite@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)'), JHutton131@ ('Jackson-Hutton, Jae (JHutton131@)')
Forwarding this to those that might be of interest, or have info. JCC
----------From: MARYAN NICHOLS[SMTP:gingermv@]Sent: Sunday, July 19, 1998 3:35 AMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: JACKSON, HOLLEGER, WALL,, SCHULER
Hi,I am new to the list and am trying to desperately find info for AndrewJACKSON (not the pres.) m Clara Savina NUSS and settled in Milford,Delaware. I have not been able to locate any info and my aunt that I amfinding this for is now 84 years young. Thank you for any help.Maryan Schuler Nicholsgingermv@
Subj: FW: Dean Family Farm Cemetary?Date: 98-07-25 20:53:42 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), eheite@ ('Heite, Ned (eheite@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)')
For your info: A thread from the Lower DelMarVa Roots List. Start at the bottom, and read your way upward. JCC
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Saturday, July 25, 1998 8:53 PMTo: 'LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@'Subject: RE: Dean Family Farm Cemetary?
Hi, Louanne & Marsha. There were many Deans in Kent County, DE, as well. Myself and several others in a research group are descended from this line. Our earliest known member of this line, so far, is James Dean (b.___, d. 1757), but there were other documented Deans in the area prior to this, such as: (Per research by Lynn Jackson, a Dean descendant): John Denne, who was granted 200 acres of land just north of Duck Creek in 1676. James Dean, letters of administration granted to widow Mary Dean, 1720. William Dean sold land in Kent County in 1725. Thomas Dean, letters of administration granted to widow Mary Dean in 1766. For more information on the Kent County, DE, Deans, visit either of these two websites:
Lynn Jackson's website: click on "Families" then on "Dean"
Mitsawokett website, containing research from our group, coordinated by Betty & Ray Terry (Betty is also a Dean descendant): click on "Go to Menu," then on "Family History Reports," then on "Dean"
Hope this helps! Good luck! JCC
----------From: Marsha McWilliams[SMTP:rmmcw@]Sent: Saturday, July 25, 1998 12:36 AMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: RE: Dean Family Farm Cemetary?
LouAnn,
Do you know what State the Dean's land was supposedly in? I am a Deandescendant - they were from Dorchester Co, MD. back in the 1700's to early1800's, then migrated to (at least) KY, and then Harrison Co, IN. If youcan send me further maybe I can help (I do have some DEANS OF DORCHESTERpapers.)
Marsha McWilliams
-----Original Message-----From: lcalvin@ [mailto:lcalvin@]Sent: Friday, July 24, 1998 11:23 PMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: Dean Family Farm Cemetary?
Dear Rooters, Recently, my cousin Sharon found a copy of our g-g-g-granfathers willdated Dec. 1883. In it, he states his desire to be buried on the farm ofJohn W. Dean's land. If any of you are researching the Dean family andknow where this "land" is located please let us know asap. We are goingon the 2nd annual research day and want to check it out. Ourg-g-g-grandfather is named Wesley Keene. We are trying to learn hisfather's name and connection to a piece of property called Keene'sLanding and Whitley's Adventure. How does one go about tracking down apiece of land? Any info appreciated. You have no idea how far we have come to solving a huge mystery. Whenwe first started we only knew that our g-g-gr, William James Keene,b Dec24 ,1860 had been adopted from the Moore family. We have since learnedthat he was a Moore, son of James Moore and Kezia Keene, both had died,who was then adopted by Welsey Keene, his uncle and Mary G. DixonWesley's wife. Wesley's mother is listed as simply Mary Keene so wehave no idea who his father is. We thought maybe a tombstone would shedsome light.
Your help is apprecated!and best regards,Louanne Keene-Calvin, lcalvin@Sharon Aulton, saulton@Jean Nelson, cljam@
==== LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS Mailing List ==== Have you seen the *GHOTES web page?(*Genealogy and History of the Eastern Shore of Virginia)
Subj: FW: More Dean stuffDate: 98-07-27 21:43:54 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), eheite@ ('Heite, Ned (eheite@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)')
More Dean stuff from the Lower DelMarVa list. JCC
----------From: MikeMead@[SMTP:MikeMead@]Sent: Monday, July 27, 1998 1:46 AMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: Re: Dean Family Farm Cemetary?
Louanne and all,
On Mike Hitch's wonderful maps (THANKS, MIKE!!), under Dorchester County,Parson's Creek District, at the top left portion of the map is a parcel for J.W. DEAN. I think this is what you were asking about. There are also lots ofKEENEs shown on that map.
There is also a parcel for J. DEAN on the Lake District map.
Mike Mead, Vienna VA
----------From: Mike Hitch[SMTP:mike_hitch@]Sent: Sunday, July 26, 1998 7:08 PMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: RE: Dean Family Farm Cemetary?
Ter:
I'd love to see that as well but I am afraid none exist. I was referringthe 1876 maps of the area I scanned for my web site on my genealogy/EasternShore History page. It's URL is listed below my name below. For the late1700s, the best you can do is the 1783 Tax Assessments and the Federal Taxassessment of 1798. They list farms, amount of land, livestock, slaves,etc. In the 1798 assessment, they even gave detailed descriptions of thebuildings on the property. They did these assessments on a house-by-housebasis so sometimes one can deduce where the property was located relative toknown laces referenced around it. Good Luck.
Yours truly,Mike Hitchmike_hitch@~mikehitch
----------From: Mike Hitch[SMTP:mike_hitch@]Sent: Sunday, July 26, 1998 6:02 PMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: RE: Dean Family Farm Cemetary?
Louanne:
I looked on the maps on my website and saw two properties for "J. Dean" inthe Hoopers Island District of Dorchester Co. They are on the map for"Hoopers Island North" and the property was actually on Barren Island.Check this out - maybe it's your John!
Sincerely,Mike Hitchmike_hitch@~mikehitch
----------From: Johnita P. Malone[SMTP:jmalone@]Sent: Sunday, July 26, 1998 7:55 PMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: Re: Deans of Dorchester
JimmDEL@ wrote:> > I'm also a Dean(e) of Dorchester and Caroline. And, I'm a Moore of lower Dor> Co. If you can pinpoint a bit more about the cem., maybe I can offer some> suggestions.> > Jim Moore> Wilmington> > ==== LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS Mailing List ====> Have you seen the *GHOTES web page?> (*Genealogy and History of the Eastern Shore of Virginia)>
Perhaps someone can identify this Dean?
Ibe Dean, widow of Unknown Dean and mother of Charles Dean, married Isaac Reed sometime before 1787. They apparently lived for a time in Sussex Co., DE., but soon disappear from there. Isaac Reed and Ibe (....) Dean had a son, Benjamin Reed.
My main interest is the Reed surname but would like to figure out who all of these folks are and maybe it would help me further my Reed research.
The following is the abstract of the will of Ibe Dean's son, Charles Dean.
7 Aug 1819. Sussex Co., DE., Wills Liber G, pg 160. Will of Charles Dean. Written 7 Aug 1819. Probated 1 Oct 1819. Wife: Saley. Sons: Elisha, Charles. Daughters: Peggy, Hetty. Children: Ebey and Alley. Half-brother: Benjamin Reed. Brother-in-law: James Wolliss, executor. Wits.: William P. Chillaws, William Reed, James Marvel.
-- Johnita P. Malonejmalone@Researching: Malone, Reed, Staton, Morrow, Stanley, Plunk, Freestad, Bushong, Wilbanks, Frazier, Meek, Harris, Saylor, James, Perkins, White, Currin, Morris, Gage, Butler, Dodd, Taylor, Lutz, Ruggles, Briggs, Rhea, Ray, Fincher, Jackson, O'Briant, Coburn, Black, Parrish, Barnes, Carey, Betts, Keller, Wymore, Cooke, Jones, Gossett, Smith, Hester, Melton, Hope, Cannaday, Blocksom, Reynolds, Rinker, Snook, Haddon, Betts, Bossert, Gantt, Pryor, Watson, Cole, Shewin, Williams, Wheeler, Fowler, Mitchell, Clendenin, Downing, Pettyjohn, Bowman, Cauffman, Lafferty, Weigel, Lollar, Wood, Morris, Thompson, Burch, Greene
___________________________
Subj: FW: DEAN FAMILYDate: 98-07-27 21:57:03 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), eheite@ ('Heite, Ned (eheite@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)')
For your info. JCC
----------From: Marsha McWilliams[SMTP:rmmcw@]Sent: Monday, July 27, 1998 1:08 PMTo: spiff@Subject: DEAN FAMILY
John,
Thank you for writing regarding the Dean family.
I am fairly content with my information on my Dean line so am not activelypursing any research on them at this time. Some day, however, I would liketo do some more checking into the SHENTON - SUMMERS families who marriedinto them.
I did check for your James DEAN (d: 1757) who lived in Kent Co, DE. in whatI do have of the Deans of Dorchester and could find no mention norconnection. However, with the way the county (and states of Md & De)boundary lines jumped back and forth at that time, I ended up looking forjust James Dean's. I found mention of a few early ones. It apparently, atthat time, was not a real popular given name (not in the records I was givenanyway.) There was even two mentions of James in my line with no furtherinformation.
William Dean was supposedly the founder of Maryland Deans (of the shipBetty.) You have probably all of this information.
I am sorry that I could not be of further help to you on your research. Ifthere is anything I have mentioned that you'd like further on (if I have it)I would be more than happy to send it to you, just let me know.
Thanks again for writing.
Marsha McWilliams
Subj: RE: DurhamsDate: 98-07-28 19:36:33 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: Merlin1154@ ('Merlin1154@')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Richard. I received your message below, and was also cc'd on the messages Betty & Ray Terry forwarded from you, to our research group. I am descended from the same Durham(s) as was posted on their Mitsawokett website, John Durham Sr, who died in May 1788, who may have been the son of Daniel Durham Jr, who in turn may have been the son of Daniel Durham, Sr. (Not sure how this is shown on the site). They were all in the Kent County, Delaware area. I also have another Durham line, which may or may not be connected with this one, and the furthest ancestor I've found in that line is Elisha Durham, born ca. 1794, also from Kent County, DE. Sorry I wasn't more help. Good luck! JCC
----------From: Merlin1154@[SMTP:Merlin1154@]Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 1998 12:19 AMTo: SPIFF@Subject: Durhams
Who are you looking for? I'm related to Achilles Durham. His father might bea George, Robert or John.
Thanks
Richard F. Durham
Subj: FW: Dean Family Farm Cemetary?Date: 98-07-28 19:36:34 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)')
Hi. Not sure which of your sites had "the quote about the lion's historian," so I thought I'd send these comments along to both of you. JCC
----------From: lcalvin@[SMTP:lcalvin@]Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 1998 9:20 AMTo: John C. CarterSubject: Re: Dean Family Farm Cemetary?
John, Thanks so much for the references. Although, I could not find anythingI could use in my search, I did enjoy perusing the site. I especiallylike the quote about the the lion's historian! I attended ahistorically black college for 2 years on another race grant andhistorical prospective and voracity were major topics of discussion.
Thanks again for the input,Louanne KEENE-Calvin
Booze,Craig,Fitzhugh,Insley,Keene,Moore,Rippon, Wroten
-----------------------------------------------
John C. Carter wrote:
> Hi, Louanne & Marsha.> There were many Deans in Kent County, DE, as well. Myself and several others in a research group are descended from this line. Our earliest known member of this line, so far, is James Dean (b.___, d. 1757), but there were other documented Deans in the area prior to this, such as:> (Per research by Lynn Jackson, a Dean descendant):> John Denne, who was granted 200 acres of land just north of Duck Creek in 1676.> James Dean, letters of administration granted to widow Mary Dean, 1720.> William Dean sold land in Kent County in 1725.> Thomas Dean, letters of administration granted to widow Mary Dean in 1766.> For more information on the Kent County, DE, Deans, visit either of these two websites:> > Lynn Jackson's website:> > click on "Families" then on "Dean"> > Mitsawokett website, containing research from our group, coordinated by Betty & Ray Terry (Betty is also a Dean descendant):> > click on "Go to Menu,"> then on "Family History Reports,"> then on "Dean"> > Hope this helps!> Good luck!> JCC
Subj: RE: Angelina vs. Angelico MunceDate: 98-08-01 08:05:04 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@'), hmuncey@ (hmuncey@), JACKLYN001@ (JACKLYN001@)
Hi, Harry. The tin-type photo I gave you was ANGELINA (or rather, AngelinE) Munce, not Angelico. (The photo was labelled "Angeline L. Dean"). And yes, I do have a photo of her husband, Enoch Dean, as well. They were in the photos I received from the best friend of the last living member of the Michigan Cott family branch after she (Florence Cott Baker) passed away. It is also ANGELINE Munson Dean (widow of Enoch, Sr) who we have a copy of the death certificate of. According to the death certificate, her birthdate was 25 Nov 1843 and she died 01 Feb 1917. It was ANGELICA (ca. 1848-1919) who married George Miller. Thanks. JCC
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Friday, July 31, 1998 3:14 AMTo: JACKLYN001@; spiff@; hmuncey@Subject: Angelina vs. Angelico Munce
In a message dated 98-07-30 19:31:23 EDT, Lynn wrote to Betty:
or =>1862."> AS FAR AS HER NICKNAME GOES, I HAVE NO IDEA. I HAD NEVER >HEARD THIS =>BEFORE.>>>Henry b. 1869>Clem b. 1872 m. Rebecca>Frank b. Dec 1873>>Minnie (mariah) b. 1874, m. Henry ridgeway>>----manship stone says born 27 may 1873. Jcc gedcom says minnie =>married=20>shadrack carney.>> oh no, not "the minnies" again!! :-)> (confusion over "the minnies" goes way back).> minnie m. Durham, b. 27 may 1873, daughter of benjamin & >sally, married =>shadrack (or shedrick) carney. His name is on her stone as well, >noted =>as her husband. The minnie who married henry/john ridg(e)way was born >=>09 mar 1871, died 12 sep 1946, and had the maiden name of durham, but >=>she was the daughter of the jeremiah durham (from pennsylvania, =>according to maybelle) who married margaret/margaretta mosely. This =>minnie is buried in fork branch.> I WILL FORWARD YOU, BY SEPARATE E-MAIL, THE E-MAIL CHAIN FROM >1997 =>REGARDING "THE MINNIES.">>>Amanda b. 26 Dec 1874, d. 10 Aug 1910 m. James O. Sammons>>----1870 census gives Amanda age 3. Manship stone says "26 Dec >1874-10 =>Aug>1910. Married James O. Sammons." Buried with Amanda are W.G. >Sammons>1882-1946 and Ella D. Sammons 1888-1969. Is the Amanda cited above >the =>same>person as the child of Benjamin and Sallie Ann Durham? Anyone looked >at =>the>death certificate?>> According to the indian center family sheet, benjamin & >sally's =>daughter amanda was born aug 1867 and had three husbands:> 1. Mitchell sammons> 2. Miles carney sammons, (brother of mitchell).> 3. Charles edward johnson> according to ned's hurd site data, he has the same three >husbands (sans =>the middle names)> debbie's durham report has the same b.date as the indian >center, and =>same husband-names as ned's data. She also has amanda's death date as >=>10 may 1940.> i do not have a photo of the tombstone you mentioned, but >since you say =>it gives precise dates (and a precise husband-name) that differ from >the =>immediately-above data, my suspicion would be that the tombstone is of >a =>different amanda.> i'll check my data from preston sammons to see if he has any >references =>to these sammons-husbands. Otherwise, you might want to check with >him =>directly.>>Harvey Durham b. 1876 m. Lola>>>We are inputting all the e-mail info received in the past six months =>into PAF>so accurate web reports can be created.>>Thanks for you help -- and John, we promise to get those copies to you >=>soon!>>B&R>>>>
_____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Subj: RE: Munce or Sammons?Date: 8/30/98 12:00:31 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), bennettj@ ('Carpenter, Patti Muncey (bennettj@)')CC: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)'), rbright4@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie (rbright4@)')
Hi, Betty & Patti: Wow, look how long it's been since I received this!
Mucho apologies for how long it's taken me to respond. I have several things in my Inbox that I'm trying to clear up. However, I should have answered this one long ago, since it's a brief answer:
This is the way the children were listed on the family group sheet I received several years ago from the Indian Center in Bridgeton. I was confused as well.
However, I just looked up this family in my FTM, and I no longer have them listed that way. I now have them all listed as Sammons, except for Susan, who I have listed as Susan Munce Sammons. But in looking at my source-field for this family, I see I've referenced an e-mail message from Preston Sammons dated 03 Mar 1998. So I would wager that Betty was using my forwarded GEDCOM, which I'd sent her prior to Mar 98 (based on the family group sheet from the Indian Center), and I later updated the family in my FTM based on Preston's message.
I hope this helps. JCC
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Saturday, July 18, 1998 1:03 AMTo: spiff@Cc: bennettj@Subject: Fwd: Munce or Sammons?
John,
Your GEDCOM shows Munce and Sammons children born of Benjamin Sammons andLydia Munce. Please check your references and respond. Thanks!!
And thanks for the Xeroxing which arrived today--much appreciated!
B&R
----------From: Bennett Carpenter[SMTP:bennettj@]Sent: Friday, July 17, 1998 7:47 PMTo: AquaBetty@Cc: John Carter (Muncey); Patti @ homeSubject: Munce or Sammons?
I don't understand- are these children with a Munce surname illegitimatechildren of
Benjamin Sammons? (Minnie Susan & Robert Munce?)
Descendents of Issac Sammons:
2. Benjamin SAMMONS (Issac ) was born Feb 1837. He died in U.S.A..
[Notes] Benjamin married Lydia A. MUNCE. Lydia was born Sep 1832 in Delaware,U.S.A.. She died 1908 in Delaware, U.S.A..
[Notes] Benjamin and Lydia had the following children:
+ 4 F i Minnie MUNCE was born 1864. 5 F ii Susan MUNCE was born 1867. She died in U.S.A..[Notes]
Susan married (1) Thomas CARNEY - Living.
Susan also married (2) Jesse DEAN III - Living. 6 M iii Robert MUNCE died in U.S.A..[Notes] 7 F iv Christina SAMMONS died in U.S.A..[Notes]
Christina married David DURHAM - Living. 8 M v Brady SAMMONS died in U.S.A..[Notes]
Brady married Mary GRINNAGE - Living.
Help me understand!
Patti Muncey Carpenter
Subj: RE: Jemina Handsor vs. Okea/Okes??Date: 8/30/98 3:18:00 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), belle25@ ('Bordley, MayBelle & Sandy (belle25@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)'), psam@ ('Sammons, Preston L. (psam@)'), rbright4@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie (rbright4@)')CC: bennettj@ ('Carpenter, Patti Muncey (bennettj@)'), hmuncey@ ('Muncey, Harry (hmuncey@)')
Hello, all.
Harry had a good idea when he suggested (see messages attached below) that we try to obtain death certificates of the other children of Robert Munce Jr. and Jemina, to see what they list for Jemina's maiden name.
We know the death certificate of their daughter Angelina Munce/Munson Dean lists her as Jemima Okea/Okes (hard to read). Do any of you have death certificates for any of the other children?
(Here is a list): 1. Lydia Ann Munce Sammons (d. 1908 in DE). 2. Isaiah "Zaddock" Munce/Muntz (d. 02 Jun 1905 in DE). 3. Josiah (aka Joseph?) Munce (d. date unknown). 4. James Henry Munce/Muncey (d. 29 Mar 1919 in NJ). 5. Daniel Munce (d. date unknown). 6. Margaret Munce (d. date unknown). 7. Mary Elizabeth Munce Sammons (d. 08 Nov 1914 in DE). 8. Hannah Munce (d. date unknown). 9. Angelina Munce/Munson Dean (d. 01 Feb 1917 in NJ). 10. Angelica Munce Miller (d. 13 Nov 1919 in DE). 11. Robert Munce III (d. date unknown). 12. Nehemiah Munce (d. 07 Mar 1904 in ?). 13. Jeremiah Munce (d. date unknown).
Harry, do you have a copy of James' death certificate? What does it state? How did we first come to know that Jemina's maiden name was supposedly Handsor in the first place? Is this what's listed on James' death certificate?
Preston, do you have copies of the death certificates for the two daughters who married Sammons'?
Anyone with any additional information, or any death certificates of the children above, please share with the rest of us, so we don't have to attempt to order them at $10 a pop, or whatever they are now.
Thanks very much everyone for your help!! JCC
----------From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]Sent: Sunday, August 02, 1998 12:49 PMTo: spiff@Cc: JACKLYN001@; AquaBettySubject: Angeline Munce Dean
Hi Gang,
< snip >
To explore any possible Oakey connection we need more deathcertificates from other children of Jemina. Does anyone have deathcertificates for the Sammons girls? Are there any Oakey/Hansor marriage records?
Harry
----------From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]Sent: Sunday, July 19, 1998 6:06 PMTo: AquaBetty; Beth Morris; bordleycsw@; C.Ross Dellinger; Charles C Counceller; Charles R. Martin; cora wade; Counsellor; DEBORAH P UNGER; FLOYD HANDSOR; JACKLYN001@; John C. Carter; Jon L Miller; Lea L. Dowd; MAYBELLE BORDLEY; MINNIEDAN; Mollie A. Steward; Montigre; MPierce96@; Ned Heite; PathoPeace; Preston L. Sammons; Rose Marie Ridgeway; seen1@; Senamoon@; Shirley Hendrix; ShngSprt@; voices@; WyNot22@Cc: Bennett CarpenterSubject: Hansor/Oakey Mystery
Hi Gang,
I think the only way we are going to resolve this problem is if we getthe death certificates of some of the other children of Jemina HansorMunce. It is possible that she was a young widow when she married Robert II.If so, Hansor could be her first marriage name.
Harry
Subj: RE: Durhams/Carneys/etcDate: 8/30/98 3:30:41 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)'), psam@ ('Sammons, Preston L. (psam@)')
Hi, Betty. Still digging through some catch-up mail. Came across this (message attached below), and started to enter the dates into my FTM, and came across the following:
You have Daniel Durham (who m. Caroline Carney) as d. 09 Jan 1931. However, my FTM has him d. 09 Sep 1919. Wait, I just found I have a copy of Caroline's death certificate, and it lists her age at death as 56 (on 24 Dec 1914), and states she was the daughter of James Carney and Sallie Sanger (prob. a Songo derivative). But I have her in my FTM as being the daughter of Shary Carney and Mary Jane Carty Carney. ????? The death certificate also lists Daniel Durham as the informant, which means he was still living at the time of her death in 1914. ?????
Are we talking about two different Daniel's & Caroline's????
Also, in your message, I can't figure out what the numbers in the left column represent. I can't seem to find the preceding message to see what context the numbering might have meant. The children in the paragraph containing William thru Donald--who are these the children of? You mention that two of them are living brothers of Corrine Durham Dean, but Corrine's name is not in the list of children...??
Please accept my apologies for being confused, and for inquiring about this at such late notice, after the fact. Any help you can offer would be appreciated.
Thanks! JCC
----------From: AquaBetty[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 5:12 PMTo: spiff@; jmalone@; 71764.3615@Subject: REED
Hi,
Regarding John's e-mail, "Thomas Addison Reed's sister Molly Reed married a Pete Becket and one of their children married, Tommy Durham.Their children included Warren Durham who may have owned the CheswoldAirport, Donald and undertaker, Dorothy, Corrine and Iona. Apparentlythere are Carter's, Pierce's, Carney's, etc. in the family lines. Youand others may have more information for her. The Cheswold connection isvery clear."
1 Daniel Durham d 9 Jan 1931 m Caroline (Carney?) d 24 Dec 19142 William Thomas Durham 31 Oct 1890-17 Jul 1973
1 Peter H. Beckett 1857-1942 m Mary E. Reed 1858-19362 Maymie Caroline Coxey Beckett 2 May 1894-17 Aug 1969 (all names were given at birth)
2 William Thomas Durham m 6 Nov 1912 Maymie Cariline Coxey Beckett3 Dorothy Winona Durham b 1913 d 1988 m Norace Carney b 1912 d 19833 Warren Jerome Durham b 1915 m ? living3 Floyd Harlen Durham b 1918 m Doris --, living -- owns Delaware Air Park3 Iona Phillena Durham b 1923 d 1983 m William Thomas Reed b 1898 d 19893 Brenda Cleo Durham b 1920 d 1994 m & div James Coker living3 Donald Durham b 1930 m 1975 div 1978 (name?) died 1996 undertaker
We met last week with Corrine Durham Dean at her condo in Dover. She is now82 and in fairly good health, but with a worrisome blockage in a carotidartery. Her brothers Warren and Floyd are living. Floyd is having problemswith coronary blockages. If you want to talk to them, do it toot sweet.
Betty
Subj: RE: Death records, etc.Date: 8/31/98 11:49:19 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Betty. With my living in Florida, alas, it is slightly difficult for me to obtain death records, etc, in person. I have always thus had to order them through the mail. I just checked my notes, and at the last time I ordered records from DE or NJ, it was $5 per search for DE, and $4 for NJ, (so my $10 remark was a little over-estimated) (some states, such as MI, are as high as $15). One has to be careful with NJ, however. They stopped doing searches for "genealogical purposes." If you don't want them to refuse a request, one has to put "family purposes" or some such other ambiguous reason on the form. Thanks. JCC P.S. And do the DE Archives have ALL death records there? It used to be that death & marriage records 1930-present were at the office of vital statistics, and pre-1930 would be at the Archives. (And birth records pre-1920).
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Sunday, August 30, 1998 9:21 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Jemina Handsor vs. Okea/Okes??
In a message dated 8/30/98 3:18:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,spiff@ writes:
To explore any possible Oakey connection we need more deathcertificates from other children of Jemina. Does anyone have deathcertificates for the Sammons girls? Are there any Oakey/Hansor marriage records?
Harry
----------From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]Sent: Sunday, July 19, 1998 6:06 PMTo: AquaBetty; Beth Morris; bordleycsw@; C.Ross Dellinger; Charles C Counceller; Charles R. Martin; cora wade; Counsellor; DEBORAH P UNGER; FLOYD HANDSOR; JACKLYN001@; John C. Carter; Jon L Miller; Lea L. Dowd; MAYBELLE BORDLEY; MINNIEDAN; Mollie A. Steward; Montigre; MPierce96@; Ned Heite; PathoPeace; Preston L. Sammons; Rose Marie Ridgeway; seen1@; Senamoon@; Shirley Hendrix; ShngSprt@; voices@; WyNot22@Cc: Bennett CarpenterSubject: Hansor/Oakey Mystery
Hi Gang,
I think the only way we are going to resolve this problem is if we getthe death certificates of some of the other children of Jemina HansorMunce. It is possible that she was a young widow when she married Robert II.If so, Hansor could be her first marriage name.
Harry
Subj: FW: Handsor vs. Okea (Harry's reply)Date: 8/31/98 7:46:10 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), Hi, all. Here's Harry's response (below) ,concerning the death certificate of James Henry Munce/Muncey. JCC
----------From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]Sent: Sunday, August 30, 1998 9:59 PMTo: John C. CarterSubject: Re: Jemina Handsor vs. Okea/Okes??
Hi John,
Yes I have James Munce's death certificate. Sit down for this one.Father Robert Munce. Mother Margaret maiden name unknown. My Aunt Bessevidently was under stress at the time of her father's death and skipped a generation. This is one reason that I think that the Margaret Munceywho married a Brown two years after Robert Munce I's death was hiswidow.. Also the repeated use of Margaret since then.
Harry
---------------------------------------------------------------
John C. Carter wrote:> > Hello, all.> > Harry had a good idea when he suggested (see messages attached> below) that we try to obtain death certificates of the other children of Robert> Munce Jr. and Jemina, to see what they list for Jemina's maiden name.> > We know the death certificate of their daughter Angelina> Munce/Munson Dean lists her as Jemima Okea/Okes (hard to read).> Do any of you have death certificates for any of the other children?> > (Here is a list):> 1. Lydia Ann Munce Sammons (d. 1908 in DE).> 2. Isaiah "Zaddock" Munce/Muntz (d. 02 Jun 1905 in DE).> 3. Josiah (aka Joseph?) Munce (d. date unknown).> 4. James Henry Munce/Muncey (d. 29 Mar 1919 in NJ).> 5. Daniel Munce (d. date unknown).> 6. Margaret Munce (d. date unknown).> 7. Mary Elizabeth Munce Sammons (d. 08 Nov 1914 in DE).> 8. Hannah Munce (d. date unknown).> 9. Angelina Munce/Munson Dean (d. 01 Feb 1917 in NJ).> 10. Angelica Munce Miller (d. 13 Nov 1919 in DE).> 11. Robert Munce III (d. date unknown).> 12. Nehemiah Munce (d. 07 Mar 1904 in ?).> 13. Jeremiah Munce (d. date unknown).> > Harry, do you have a copy of James' death certificate? What does it> state?> How did we first come to know that Jemina's maiden name was> supposedly Handsor in the first place? Is this what's listed on James' death> certificate?> > Preston, do you have copies of the death certificates for the two> daughters who married Sammons'?> > Anyone with any additional information, or any death certificates of> the children above, please share with the rest of us, so we don't have to> attempt to order them at $10 a pop, or whatever they are now.> > Thanks very much everyone for your help!!> JCC> > ----------> From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 1998 12:49 PM> To: spiff@> Cc: JACKLYN001@; AquaBetty> Subject: Angeline Munce Dean> > Hi Gang,> > < snip >> > To explore any possible Oakey connection we need more death> certificates from other children of Jemina. Does anyone have death> certificates for the Sammons girls?> Are there any Oakey/Hansor marriage records?> > Harry> > ----------> From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 1998 6:06 PM> To: AquaBetty; Beth Morris; bordleycsw@; C.Ross Dellinger; Charles C> Cc: Bennett Carpenter> Subject: Hansor/Oakey Mystery> > Hi Gang,> > I think the only way we are going to resolve this problem is if we get> the death certificates of some of the other children of Jemina Hansor> Munce.> It is possible that she was a young widow when she married Robert II.> If so, Hansor could be her first marriage name.> > Harry
Subj: FW: Handsor vs. Okes (Lynn's reply)Date: 8/31/98 7:58:47 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'),CC: bennettj@ ('Carpenter, Patti Muncey (bennettj@)')
Hello, all. Below is a message from Lynn regarding the (attempted) death certificate of Isaiah "Zaddock" Munce/Muntz. JCC P.S. I sent off in today's mail, a request to the National Archives to locate Zaddock's Civil War pension file. I think it should be readily available, but if not, I will attempt a request of the military file.
----------From: JACKLYN001@[SMTP:JACKLYN001@]Sent: Monday, August 31, 1998 3:43 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re:
Hi John,
RE: Death CertificatesYears ago I requested Isaiah "Zaddock" Durhams death certificate from the DEArchives. I was told it could not be found.
Lynn
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Sunday, August 30, 1998 3:22 PMTo: 'Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'; 'Bordley, MayBelle & SandyCc: 'Carpenter, Patti Muncey (bennettj@)'; 'Muncey, Harry (hmuncey@)'Subject: RE: Jemina Handsor vs. Okea/Okes??
Hello, all.
Harry had a good idea when he suggested (see messages attached below) that we try to obtain death certificates of the other children of Robert Munce Jr. and Jemina, to see what they list for Jemina's maiden name.
We know the death certificate of their daughter Angelina Munce/Munson Dean lists her as Jemima Okea/Okes (hard to read). Do any of you have death certificates for any of the other children?
(Here is a list): 1. Lydia Ann Munce Sammons (d. 1908 in DE). 2. Isaiah "Zaddock" Munce/Muntz (d. 02 Jun 1905 in DE). 3. Josiah (aka Joseph?) Munce (d. date unknown). 4. James Henry Munce/Muncey (d. 29 Mar 1919 in NJ). 5. Daniel Munce (d. date unknown). 6. Margaret Munce (d. date unknown). 7. Mary Elizabeth Munce Sammons (d. 08 Nov 1914 in DE). 8. Hannah Munce (d. date unknown). 9. Angelina Munce/Munson Dean (d. 01 Feb 1917 in NJ). 10. Angelica Munce Miller (d. 13 Nov 1919 in DE). 11. Robert Munce III (d. date unknown). 12. Nehemiah Munce (d. 07 Mar 1904 in ?). 13. Jeremiah Munce (d. date unknown).
Harry, do you have a copy of James' death certificate? What does it state? How did we first come to know that Jemina's maiden name was supposedly Handsor in the first place? Is this what's listed on James' death certificate?
Preston, do you have copies of the death certificates for the two daughters who married Sammons'?
Anyone with any additional information, or any death certificates of the children above, please share with the rest of us, so we don't have to attempt to order them at $10 a pop, or whatever they are now.
Thanks very much everyone for your help!! JCC
----------From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]Sent: Sunday, August 02, 1998 12:49 PMTo: spiff@Cc: JACKLYN001@; AquaBettySubject: Angeline Munce Dean
Hi Gang,
< snip >
To explore any possible Oakey connection we need more deathcertificates from other children of Jemina. Does anyone have deathcertificates for the Sammons girls? Are there any Oakey/Hansor marriage records?
Harry
----------From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]Sent: Sunday, July 19, 1998 6:06 PMTo: AquaBetty; Beth Morris; bordleycsw@; C.Ross Dellinger; Charles CCc: Bennett CarpenterSubject: Hansor/Oakey Mystery
Hi Gang,
I think the only way we are going to resolve this problem is if we getthe death certificates of some of the other children of Jemina HansorMunce. It is possible that she was a young widow when she married Robert II.If so, Hansor could be her first marriage name.
Harry
Subj: RE: MorgansDate: 8/29/98 11:13:50 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: bmorg@ ('Roland R. Morgan')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)')
Hi, Roland. Thanks very much for your message! Your Morgans are further back in time than what I know of my line, but their being in the same county is very enticing. Here is what I know of my Morgan line (same line as Betty Terry, who you also cc'd, and also Lynn Jackson, cc'd above, another researcher): Catherine Morgan (27 Dec 1833-23 May 1894) married (1st) Robert B. Dean (24 Apr 1830-30 Sep 1874). (My great-great-great-grandparents). Both were of Kent County, DE. (Catherine's 2nd husband was William Carney). Catherine's father was John Morgan, but I know nothing further about him or this Morgan line. Perhaps Betty and/or Lynn know a little more, but I think we're all basically stuck at this point. Anything that you might be able to share which would tie this line in with yours would be greatly appreciated! Thanks very much, John C. Carter spiff@ St. Petersburg, FL
----------From: Roland R. Morgan[SMTP:bmorg@]Sent: Friday, August 28, 1998 5:44 PMTo: Ken Kristensen; Lynn Smith; Sunnie Skiles; Jim Morgan; John Carter; Betty TerrySubject: DELMARVA Surname List-Morgan
You are on the DELMARVA Surname list as researching the MORGAN surname. Ihave just added my name to the list and will be glad to provide any info Ihave or may get to other searchers.I believe I come from the following lineage.Marmaduke Morgan Kent Cty Delaware died 1775 wife Sarah ??His children were:EvanMaryJonathanJohnWilliamThomasJamesEvan also lived in Kent Cty and married Benitha Clifton. He is my GGGgrandfather. Died 1824His children were:NelsonMary Clayton Morgan - married John MeredithClintonGeorgeNelson, my GG grandfather also of Kent Cty 1804-1856 with Chana McKnatt hadsix children. They apparently were not married.His children were:George W.- born about 1831James H. my great grandfather 1836-1926Evan- 1838-1908 -lived in Caroline Cty Md.Mary born 1839Angeline-born 1840 married Henry Keen and later Anderson FordNelson born 1845 married Harriet Ann Meredith & fell off the earth!! Can'tfind him in 1870 or later census records.Any information on any of these or their families would be greatlyappreciated. I'll distribute any info I get to others on the Morgan list.ThanksRoland R MorganLittle Rock, ARbmorg@
Subj: New Researcher / Ridg(e)waysDate: 8/29/98 10:04:14 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'), 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), belle25@ ('Bordley, MayBelle & Sandy (belle25@)'), bennettj@ ('Carpenter, Patti Muncey (bennettj@)'), Bephi@ ('Phipps, Beverley (Bephi@)'), BHutton131@ ('Jackson-Hutton, Jae (BHutton131@)'), boatskul70@ ('Councilor, Terry Allen (boatskul70@)'), bugs@ ('Handsor, Floyd (bugs@)'), ccc47331@si- ('Counceller, Chuck (ccc47331@si-)'), cdwade@ecsu.campus. ('Wade, Cora (cdwade@ecsu.campus.)'), dart@ ('Councellor, Donna (dart@)'), DL7715@ ('Seaney, Dave (DL7715@)'), eheite@ ('Heite, Ned (eheite@)'), Hank2732@ ('Kressman, Annabelle (Hank2732@)'), hendrix@mursuky.campus. ('Hendrix, Shirley (hendrix@mursuky.campus.)'), Heritage49@ ('Marshall, Sandy Coursey (Heritage49@)'), hmuncey@ ('Muncey, Harry (hmuncey@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)'), Jhelmer@ ('LaMont, John (Jhelmer@)'), jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu ('Jackson, Jan (jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu)'), lea@ ('Dowd, Lea (lea@)'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)'), miggest@ ('Councilor, Karen (miggest@)'), montigre@ ('Jacobsen, Gail (montigre@)'), MPierce96@ ('Pierce, Michele (MPierce96@)'), pepper@ ('Miller, Jon (pepper@)'), psam@ ('Sammons, Preston L. (psam@)'), rbright4@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie (rbright4@)'), rcounsel@northland.lib.mi.us ('Counsellor, Rick (rcounsel@northland.lib.mi.us)'), seaney@ccmail..il.us ('Seaney, Rod (seaney@ccmail..il.us)'), seen1@ ('Seeney, Chuck (seen1@)'), ShngSprt@ ('Firehair (Shngsprt@)'), sstreet@ ('Street, Sterling (sstreet@)'), stewardm@ ('Steward, Mollie (stewardm@)'), WyNot@ ('Fleming, Wythena (WyNot22@)')CC: jamesbrentthomas@email. ('Thomas, Brent (jamesbrentthomas@email.)')
Hello, everyone.
This message is for two purposes:
1. To introduce a new researcher, James Brent ("Brent") Thomas, grandson of Felix Ridgway, who was the son of Henry (aka John?) Ridg(e)way and Minnie Durham Ridg(e)way. (See e-mail chain attached below). Some of you may have already met Brent or spoke to him (or corresponded via e-mail). He lives in the Bridgeton, NJ area, and has been making research trips into DE. He tells me he was very excited to have visited the Fork Branch Cemetery last weekend, to visit the grave site of his great-grandparents Henry & Minnie. His e-mail address is: jamesbrentthomas@email. Please welcome him to the group!
2. Brent has already helped me to connect two Ridg(e)way branches that had been "loose ends" in my notes until now! Before today, I had no idea who Henry Ridg(e)way's parents were or how they connected to the other Ridg(e)ways, but Brent has revealed that Henry was a son of Tilghman (aka Tillman, Tilman) Ridgeway (whose wife was Sina Mosely).
This is great news except for one thing: Tilghman Ridgway's line is another one of the "loose end" branches that I haven't been able to connect to the rest of the Ridg(e)ways! :-) Oh, well, at least two of the loose ends have now tied together. (Actually, for those of you who are descended from Tilghman, I do not mean any disrespect by referring to your branch as a loose end; I only mean this from my branch-perspective. Of course, from your perspective, MY line is the loose end!)
Some of you who've been in contact with Harry Muncey may remember his discovery several years ago, in which Tilghman Ridgway was going by the surname of JACK in the 1850 Kent County census (Dover Hundred, p. 172, dwelling #1299). The family then consisted of: Name: Age: Tilman Jack 35 Sina 35 Elizabeth 10 Timothy 8 Matilda 6 Sarah 5 Frank 3 Susan 6/12
(Since Henry wasn't born until 1861, his name doesn't appear). Has anyone been able to determine why Tilghman Ridgway was going by the alias of Tilghman Jack?
Also, does anyone have any clues as to how we might connect Tilghman's line with that of William Ridgway Sr. (ca. 1804-Feb 1867)? We know there must be a connection, due to the following:
William Sr's sons Cornelius (my gr-gr-grandfather) and Alfred both served in the Civil War. Among the pension records of Alfred is document stating that his wife's maiden name was Sarah Ridgway and that she "was a second cousin." (After Alfred's death, Sarah later married Daniel Coker, another Civil War vet). Sarah's death certificate (d. 22 Apr 1919) states that she was a daughter of "Tilmon" Ridgway and Sina Mosely. So, if Alfred and Sarah were second cousins, then there must be some connection between the families of Tilghman and William.
The 1850 Sussex County census (Cedar Creek Hundred, p. 136?, dwelling #1014) shows William living there, and that William, his wife (Deborah Handsor) and their 10 listed children were all born in Sussex County. Of those, at least William Jr, Alfred and Cornelius moved to Kent County. William Jr is buried at Fork Branch, and Alfred and Cornelius are buried in Manship/Immanuel Union (no headstone found for Cornelius, but his death certificate lists him buried there).
I believe Harry Muncey also made note that the 1810 Sussex Co census lists a William RIDGWARE who may be a possibility for William Sr's father.
Any help in tying these pieces of the puzzle together would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks! JCC
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Friday, May 09, 1997 11:33 PMTo: 'MAYBELLE BORDLEY'Subject: RE: The Minnies
Hi, MayBelle. Thanks for the info. But isn't the Minnie who was the daughter of your grandfather Jerry the same Minnie that I mentioned who married Orville Mosely, in my last e-mail?
----------From: MAYBELLE BORDLEY[SMTP:belle25@]Sent: Friday, May 09, 1997 8:49 PMTo: Spiff@Subject: The Minnies
Hi John,< snip >
Minnie married Henry /John Ridgeway and they had a son named Tilghman andalso a daughter named Minnie!! She married Elias Pierce and just died afew years ago here in a nursing home.
< snip >
MBBMAYBELLE & SANDY BORDLEY
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 1997 9:14 PMTo: 'MayBelle & Sandy Bordley'Cc: 'Debbie Unger'; 'Floyd Handsor'; 'Ned Heite'; 'Lynn Jackson'; 'Jae (Jill) Jackson-Hutton'; 'Jan Jackson'; 'JonLMillerSr@'; 'JonMiller1@'; 'pepper@'Subject: RE: Many Many Minnies
Hi, MayBelle, Sandy & everyone.
< snip >
Apparently, there were THREE Minnie Durhams, and TWO of them were daughters of TWO DIFFERENT Jeremiah Durhams! (I also have record of a THIRD Jeremiah Durham, but thankfully he didn't have a daughter named Minnie!) (I hope). Hoo, boy.... Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what my notes show so far (See messages below as well):
1. Minnie Durham, daughter of Benjamin Durham II and Sarah "Sally" Ann Handsor, was born 27 May 1873 and died 07 Nov 1921. This Minnie married Shadrach "Shade" Carney (1870-1933).
2. Minnie Durham, daughter of the ABOVE Minnie's brother Jeremiah Durham (1867-1936) and Lydia Muntz Durham (1866-1945), was born ?? and died ??. (In other words, she was Benjamin Durham II's granddaughter). This Minnie married Orville Mosely.
3. Minnie Durham, daughter of Jeremiah Durham and Margaret/Margaretta Mosely Durham, was born 09 Mar 1871 and died 12 Sep 1946. This Minnie married John?/Henry? Ridgeway (1861-1919). (His tombstone reads "Henry" but I have "John" in my notes) (??). I do not have the parentage of this Minnie's father, Jeremiah Durham. How does he connect to the other Durhams? Is this Jeremiah related to the other (above) Jeremiah? I have Margaret/Margaretta Mosely Durham's father listed as John Mosely, but no mother listed.
The THIRD (Minnie-less) Jeremiah Durham that I have, was/is married to Vicktorine Coker, daughter of Alonzo Coker (1890-1957) and Rebecca Carney Coker (1897-1978). I do not know this Jeremiah Durham's parents, either, or how he might be connected to the other two Jeremiahs.
MayBelle: You mentioned that the Minnie who married the Ridgeway was a sister to your grandfather Eli Loatman's stepmother, Mary. I see in my records that Eli's father was Samuel Loatman, who married Sarah Sammons. Was Mary Ridgeway his 2nd wife, then?
Also of note: Even though I'm not sure about the relationship of Henry/John Ridgeway (1861-1919) (Minnie #3's husband) to any other Ridgeways, I'm guessing there might be a connection to the Tilghman Ridg(e)way (ca.1815--?) who married Sina Mosely, because I show that Henry/John and Minnie had a son named Tilghman. Does anyone have any information on this?
Well, that's all for now. Take care, everyone. JCC
Subj: RE: Durham data discrepanciesDate: 8/30/98 12:00:21 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: rbright4@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie (rbright4@)')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Sweetsie. Please accept a belated thanks for the wonderful info contained in your message, attached below. I finally had a chance to go through the info in detail, and had a couple of questions.
RE: #3: You noted Mary E. Durham as born in 1865, but I had a note that her husband Samuel Loatman Sr was born in 1827. If they were married in 1882, then he would have been 55 and she would have been 17. Whereas this was certainly plausible back then, I just wanted to double-check the dates with you.
RE: #4: If Margaretta Mosely (wife of Jeremiah) was born in 1838, how could her daughter Clara "Cad" be born in 1847? Also, if she was born in 1847 and died in 1948, she would have been over 100 years old. Is this correct?
Thanks again for your help! JCC
----------From: Rose Marie Ridgeway[SMTP:rbright4@]Sent: Saturday, August 01, 1998 7:13 PMTo: spiff@; AquaBetty@Subject: Re: Durham data discrepancies
Hi John,
Lorraine can help with the Cora & Lola questions.
Children of: Jeremiah Durham & Margaretta Mosley b. May 23, 1822, Pa b. June 10, 1838 d. July 4, 1908 De. d. Sept. 28, 1919both buried Manship As far as: #1. Minnie Durham md. John Henry Ridgway, md. Aug 8, 1888,Asbury Church, Smyrna, De.
Minnie Durham> b. Mar 9, 1871 , d. Sept 12, 1946, buried Fork Branch,graves are with some of her children right together.14 children:
Lewis Ridgway md. Cynthia DurhamTilghman D. Ridgway md. Hester CuffGladys Ridgway md. Bing PierceManford Ridgway md. Mary RobinsonFelix T. Ridgway md. Thelma BrownMargaret Ridgway md. Charles DurhamJames Ridgway md. Bernice SammonsJeremiah Ridgway Vincent R. Ridgway md. Anna E. DurhamMcKinley Ridgway Beulah M. Ridgway md. Arthur Sammons, Sr. Frederick H. Ridgway md. Mary Elizabeth MosleyMinnie Ridgway md. Elias A. Pierce, Sr.John H. Ridgway, Jr. md. Ruth Wilson
All the children are deceased now, but the wives, Hester Cuff, MaryRobinson, Bernice Sammons Hands, are living in Bridgeton, Ruth Wilson isliving in Pa. with her daughter Myra Edwards.
#2. My grandmother Rebecca Durham md. Charles Henry Muncey, md. Feb 22,1876 atAsbury United Methodist Church, Smyrna De. Rebecca Durham, b. Dec 1858, d. Sept 12, 1946 De.
#3. Mary E. Durham, md. Samuel Loatman md.1882, b. 1865. d. 1933 N.J.
#4. Clara "Cad " Durham, b. July 4, 1847, d. Mar. 24, 1948 md.CharlesDurham #5. Retrissia Durham, b. 1874 , d. Oct 19, 1896, buried Manship Cem. 22yrs
#5. Margaret "Maggie" Durham, b. 1876, d. Jan 23, 1882, Manship Cem.
Grandfather Jeremiah and Margaret and children Retrissa, and Margaret,are buried at Manship grave sites are next to highway, middle way of cem., all together.
Sweetsie> rbright4@____________________ _________________ _____________________On Sat, 1 Aug 1998 18:51:37 -0400 "John C. Carter" writes:> Hi, Betty & Ray.> Finally had a chance to go through my notes to check on your >questions. => (Sorry it took so long). See my notes in ALL CAPS intersperced >below.> (Everyone else: Betty & Ray's questions are preceded by >"----").> If you have any more questions, please let me know.> Thanks.> JCC>>---------->From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]>Sent: Thursday, June 18, 1998 2:57 AM>To: spiff@; jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu>Subject: Durham data discrepancies>>John and Jan,>>Below is a message sent from Jan to John and fwd to us by John. The =>list of>the children of Benjamin and Sallie Ann Durham has some problems. Can >=>you>help resolve them?>>>From: Janet Jackson[SMTP:jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu]>Sent: Saturday, March 22, 1997 10:54 PM>To: John C. Carter>Cc: 'Debbie Unger'; 'MayBelle & Sandy Bordley'; 'Floyd >Handsor'; 'Ned =>Heite';>'Lynn Jackson'; 'Michele Pierce'>Subject: RE: James Edward Durham>>Hi John,>>3. My notes show children of Benjamin and Sallie Ann children as:>>Daniel b. Oct 1849, d. 09 Jan 1931 m. Caroline>>----The stone at Manship is engraved, "Died 9 Jan 1931 age 81-4-1">Plugged into a date calculator, that equates to 8 Sep 1849.>> I CHECKED ALL THROUGH MY NOTES, AND I FIND ONLY THE FOLLOWING:> (PER CENSUS TRANSCRIPTIONS FROM LYNN JACKSON):> 1850 KENT CO CENSUS: DANIEL, AGE 1.> 1860 KENT CO CENSUS: DANIEL, AGE 10.> 1870 KENT CO CENSUS: DANIEL, AGE 18.>> (PER FAMILY GROUP SHEETS REC'D FROM BRIDGETON INDIAN >CENTER--MOST =>LIKELY WRITTEN BY LORRAINE JOHNSON GREGG OR ROSE "SWEETSIE" >RIDGEWAY--OR =>POSSIBLY MAYBELLE DURHAM BORDLEY):> DANIEL BORN OCT, 1850.>> UNFORTUNATELY, WHEN I ENTERED HIS "OCT 1849" BIRTHDATE INTO MY >FTM, =>THIS WAS BEFORE I BEGAN INCLUDING THE SOURCE. I ASSUME I REC'D THIS =>DATE FROM JAN, BUT AM NOT SURE WHERE SHE OBTAINED IT. EVEN THOUGH I'M >=>(WE'RE) CC'ING HER, I DON'T THINK SHE REPLIES TO (OR EVEN MONITORS) >HER =>E-MAIL ANYMORE. WHICH WAS THE YEAR THAT THE CENSUS BEGAN NOTING THE =>MONTH/YEAR OF BIRTH? 1880? THE FACT THAT THE "OCT 1849" BIRTHDATE IN >=>QUESTION HAS ONLY THE MONTH & YEAR LEADS ME TO SUSPECT THAT PERHAPS >JAN =>OBTAINED THIS FROM THE CENSUS THAT LISTED MONTH/YEAR OF BIRTH. DO WE >=>KNOW WHERE DANIEL WAS IN 1880?>>>Annie b. ca 1854, died bef 1888 m. John Durham (son of Joel Durham)>John M. b. Nov 1856 died aft 1900 m. Elmira>Harriet b. 1858, d. bef 1888>>Enoch Durham b. June 1858, died 1929, m. Margaret Muntz, Cora Miller>>---- We have Lola Miller. Is Cora or Lola correct? Our source =3D >JCC =>GEDCOM.>> APPARENTLY I GOT THE 2ND WIFE'S NAME "LOLA" FROM THE FAMILY >GROUP SHEET =>FROM THE BRIDGETON INDIAN CENTER, PROBABLY WRITTEN BY LORRAINE OR =>SWEETSIE (OR MAYBELLE??). DEBBIE UNGER'S 1993 "DURHAM FAMILY I" >REPORT =>ALSO STATES "LOLA MILLER."> ENOCH IS LYNN'S GREAT-GRANDFATHER (BY HIS 1ST WIFE, >MARGARET)...LYNN, =>DO YOU KNOW IF HIS 2ND WIFE WAS "LOLA" OR "CORA"?> SOMETHING ELSE TO PONDER IS THAT ENOCH'S BROTHER HARVEY'S WIFE >WAS ALSO =>NAMED LOLA (LOLA DURHAM, DAUGHTER OF YET ANOTHER ENOCH DURHAM, WHOSE =>WIFE WAS MARTHA DURHAM, DAUGHTER OF HEWITT). CONFUSED YET? :-)>>>Jeremiah (Jerry) b. 1862 d. 1936 m. Lydia Muntz>>---- We have birthyear 1867.>> IN MY FTM, I HAVE HIS B-DATE AS 26 APR 1867, BUT I ALSO HAVE A >NOTE =>THAT HE COULD HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN BORN 1861 OR 1862. UNFORTUNATELY, >THIS =>WAS ALSO BEFORE I BEGAN INPUTTING SOURCES.> THE FAMILY GROUP SHEET FROM THE INDIAN CENTER STATES 26 APR >1861.> NED'S CHART/DATA IN HIS HURD WETLAND REPORT STATES 1867.> DEBBIE'S 1993 "DURHAM FAMILY I" REPORT STATES 26 APR 1861.> MAYBELLE WOULD BE A GOOD PERSON TO ASK, AS JERRY WAS HER >GRANDFATHER.>>>Henrietta (Hannie) F. b. Dec 1862, died 1935 m. Napoleon Bonaparte =>Morgan>>----Hannie or Fannie? Also, Fork Branch stone says died 1934.>> THE FORK BRANCH STONE ALSO SAYS SHE WAS BORN IN 1863, NOT >1862. BUT =>SINCE THE STONE IS A "COMBINATION STONE," (i.e. HAS 5 PEOPLE ON ONE =>STONE, WITH ONLY THE YEARS, NOT MONTHS OR DATES), THERE IS A CHANCE >FOR =>ERROR HERE. THE FAMILY MAY HAVE ORDERED THE STONE SEVERAL YEARS AFTER >=>SOME OF THE MEMBERS IN THE PLOT DIED, AND MAY HAVE SUPPLIED "FAULTY" =>DATES TO THE STONE-CARVER.> THE INDIAN CENTER'S FAMILY SHEET STATES SHE WAS BORN "DEC 1861 >OR =>1862."> AS FAR AS HER NICKNAME GOES, I HAVE NO IDEA. I HAD NEVER >HEARD THIS =>BEFORE.>>>Henry b. 1869>Clem b. 1872 m. Rebecca>Frank b. Dec 1873>>Minnie (Mariah) b. 1874, m. Henry Ridgeway>>----Manship stone says born 27 May 1873. JCC GEDCOM says Minnie =>married=20>Shadrack Carney.>> OH NO, NOT "THE MINNIES" AGAIN!! :-)> (CONFUSION OVER "THE MINNIES" GOES WAY BACK).> MINNIE M. DURHAM, B. 27 MAY 1873, DAUGHTER OF BENJAMIN & >SALLY, MARRIED =>SHADRACK (OR SHEDRICK) CARNEY. HIS NAME IS ON HER STONE AS WELL, >NOTED =>AS HER HUSBAND. THE MINNIE WHO MARRIED HENRY/JOHN RIDG(E)WAY WAS BORN >=>09 MAR 1871, DIED 12 SEP 1946, AND HAD THE MAIDEN NAME OF DURHAM, BUT >=>SHE WAS THE DAUGHTER OF THE JEREMIAH DURHAM (FROM PENNSYLVANIA, =>ACCORDING TO MAYBELLE) WHO MARRIED MARGARET/MARGARETTA MOSELY. THIS =>MINNIE IS BURIED IN FORK BRANCH.> I WILL FORWARD YOU, BY SEPARATE E-MAIL, THE E-MAIL CHAIN FROM >1997 =>REGARDING "THE MINNIES.">>>Amanda b. 26 Dec 1874, d. 10 Aug 1910 m. James O. Sammons>>----1870 census gives Amanda age 3. Manship stone says "26 Dec >1874-10 =>Aug>1910. Married James O. Sammons." Buried with Amanda are W.G. >Sammons>1882-1946 and Ella D. Sammons 1888-1969. Is the Amanda cited above >the =>same>person as the child of Benjamin and Sallie Ann Durham? Anyone looked >at =>the>death certificate?>> ACCORDING TO THE INDIAN CENTER FAMILY SHEET, BENJAMIN & >SALLY'S =>DAUGHTER AMANDA WAS BORN AUG 1867 AND HAD THREE HUSBANDS:> 1. MITCHELL SAMMONS> 2. MILES CARNEY SAMMONS, (BROTHER OF MITCHELL).> 3. CHARLES EDWARD JOHNSON> ACCORDING TO NED'S HURD SITE DATA, HE HAS THE SAME THREE >HUSBANDS (SANS =>THE MIDDLE NAMES)> DEBBIE'S DURHAM REPORT HAS THE SAME B.DATE AS THE INDIAN >CENTER, AND =>SAME HUSBAND-NAMES AS NED'S DATA. SHE ALSO HAS AMANDA'S DEATH DATE AS >=>10 MAY 1940.> I DO NOT HAVE A PHOTO OF THE TOMBSTONE YOU MENTIONED, BUT >SINCE YOU SAY =>IT GIVES PRECISE DATES (AND A PRECISE HUSBAND-NAME) THAT DIFFER FROM >THE =>IMMEDIATELY-ABOVE DATA, MY SUSPICION WOULD BE THAT THE TOMBSTONE IS OF >A =>DIFFERENT AMANDA.> I'LL CHECK MY DATA FROM PRESTON SAMMONS TO SEE IF HE HAS ANY >REFERENCES =>TO THESE SAMMONS-HUSBANDS. OTHERWISE, YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK WITH >HIM =>DIRECTLY.>>Harvey Durham b. 1876 m. Lola>>>We are inputting all the e-mail info received in the past six months =>into PAF>so accurate web reports can be created.>>Thanks for you help -- and John, we promise to get those copies to you >=>soon!>>B&R>
Subj: RE: Munce or Sammons?Date: 8/30/98 12:00:31 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'),
Hi, Betty & Patti: Wow, look how long it's been since I received this!
Mucho apologies for how long it's taken me to respond. I have several things in my Inbox that I'm trying to clear up. However, I should have answered this one long ago, since it's a brief answer:
This is the way the children were listed on the family group sheet I received several years ago from the Indian Center in Bridgeton. I was confused as well.
However, I just looked up this family in my FTM, and I no longer have them listed that way. I now have them all listed as Sammons, except for Susan, who I have listed as Susan Munce Sammons. But in looking at my source-field for this family, I see I've referenced an e-mail message from Preston Sammons dated 03 Mar 1998. So I would wager that Betty was using my forwarded GEDCOM, which I'd sent her prior to Mar 98 (based on the family group sheet from the Indian Center), and I later updated the family in my FTM based on Preston's message.
I hope this helps. JCC
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Saturday, July 18, 1998 1:03 AMTo: spiff@Cc: bennettj@Subject: Fwd: Munce or Sammons?
John,
Your GEDCOM shows Munce and Sammons children born of Benjamin Sammons andLydia Munce. Please check your references and respond. Thanks!!
And thanks for the Xeroxing which arrived today--much appreciated!
B&R
----------From: Bennett Carpenter[SMTP:bennettj@]Sent: Friday, July 17, 1998 7:47 PMTo: AquaBetty@Cc: John Carter (Muncey); Patti @ homeSubject: Munce or Sammons?
I don't understand- are these children with a Munce surname illegitimatechildren of
Benjamin Sammons? (Minnie Susan & Robert Munce?)
Descendents of Issac Sammons:
2. Benjamin SAMMONS (Issac ) was born Feb 1837. He died in U.S.A..
[Notes] Benjamin married Lydia A. MUNCE. Lydia was born Sep 1832 in Delaware,U.S.A.. She died 1908 in Delaware, U.S.A..
[Notes] Benjamin and Lydia had the following children:
+ 4 F i Minnie MUNCE was born 1864. 5 F ii Susan MUNCE was born 1867. She died in U.S.A..[Notes]
Susan married (1) Thomas CARNEY - Living.
Susan also married (2) Jesse DEAN III - Living. 6 M iii Robert MUNCE died in U.S.A..[Notes] 7 F iv Christina SAMMONS died in U.S.A..[Notes]
Christina married David DURHAM - Living. 8 M v Brady SAMMONS died in U.S.A..[Notes]
Brady married Mary GRINNAGE - Living.
Help me understand!
Patti Muncey Carpenter
Subj: RE: Jemina Handsor vs. Okea/Okes??Date: 8/30/98 3:18:00 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'),
Hello, all.
Harry had a good idea when he suggested (see messages attached below) that we try to obtain death certificates of the other children of Robert Munce Jr. and Jemina, to see what they list for Jemina's maiden name.
We know the death certificate of their daughter Angelina Munce/Munson Dean lists her as Jemima Okea/Okes (hard to read). Do any of you have death certificates for any of the other children?
(Here is a list): 1. Lydia Ann Munce Sammons (d. 1908 in DE). 2. Isaiah "Zaddock" Munce/Muntz (d. 02 Jun 1905 in DE). 3. Josiah (aka Joseph?) Munce (d. date unknown). 4. James Henry Munce/Muncey (d. 29 Mar 1919 in NJ). 5. Daniel Munce (d. date unknown). 6. Margaret Munce (d. date unknown). 7. Mary Elizabeth Munce Sammons (d. 08 Nov 1914 in DE). 8. Hannah Munce (d. date unknown). 9. Angelina Munce/Munson Dean (d. 01 Feb 1917 in NJ). 10. Angelica Munce Miller (d. 13 Nov 1919 in DE). 11. Robert Munce III (d. date unknown). 12. Nehemiah Munce (d. 07 Mar 1904 in ?). 13. Jeremiah Munce (d. date unknown).
Harry, do you have a copy of James' death certificate? What does it state? How did we first come to know that Jemina's maiden name was supposedly Handsor in the first place? Is this what's listed on James' death certificate?
Preston, do you have copies of the death certificates for the two daughters who married Sammons'?
Anyone with any additional information, or any death certificates of the children above, please share with the rest of us, so we don't have to attempt to order them at $10 a pop, or whatever they are now.
Thanks very much everyone for your help!! JCC
----------From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]Sent: Sunday, August 02, 1998 12:49 PMTo: spiff@Cc: JACKLYN001@; AquaBettySubject: Angeline Munce Dean
Hi Gang,
< snip >
To explore any possible Oakey connection we need more deathcertificates from other children of Jemina. Does anyone have deathcertificates for the Sammons girls? Are there any Oakey/Hansor marriage records?
Harry
----------From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]To: AquaBetty; Beth Morris; bordleycsw@; C.Ross Dellinger; Charles CCc: Bennett CarpenterSubject: Hansor/Oakey Mystery
Hi Gang,
I think the only way we are going to resolve this problem is if we getthe death certificates of some of the other children of Jemina HansorMunce. It is possible that she was a young widow when she married Robert II.If so, Hansor could be her first marriage name.
Harry
Subj: RE: Durhams/Carneys/etcDate: 8/30/98 3:30:41 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)'), psam@ ('Sammons, Preston L. (psam@)')
Hi, Betty. Still digging through some catch-up mail. Came across this (message attached below), and started to enter the dates into my FTM, and came across the following:
You have Daniel Durham (who m. Caroline Carney) as d. 09 Jan 1931. However, my FTM has him d. 09 Sep 1919. Wait, I just found I have a copy of Caroline's death certificate, and it lists her age at death as 56 (on 24 Dec 1914), and states she was the daughter of James Carney and Sallie Sanger (prob. a Songo derivative). But I have her in my FTM as being the daughter of Shary Carney and Mary Jane Carty Carney. ????? The death certificate also lists Daniel Durham as the informant, which means he was still living at the time of her death in 1914. ?????
Are we talking about two different Daniel's & Caroline's????
Also, in your message, I can't figure out what the numbers in the left column represent. I can't seem to find the preceding message to see what context the numbering might have meant. The children in the paragraph containing William thru Donald--who are these the children of? You mention that two of them are living brothers of Corrine Durham Dean, but Corrine's name is not in the list of children...??
Please accept my apologies for being confused, and for inquiring about this at such late notice, after the fact. Any help you can offer would be appreciated.
Thanks! JCC
----------From: AquaBetty[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 5:12 PMTo: spiff@; jmalone@; 71764.3615@Subject: REED
Hi,
Regarding John's e-mail, "Thomas Addison Reed's sister Molly Reed married a Pete Becket and one of their children married, Tommy Durham.Their children included Warren Durham who may have owned the CheswoldAirport, Donald and undertaker, Dorothy, Corrine and Iona. Apparentlythere are Carter's, Pierce's, Carney's, etc. in the family lines. Youand others may have more information for her. The Cheswold connection isvery clear."
1 Daniel Durham d 9 Jan 1931 m Caroline (Carney?) d 24 Dec 19142 William Thomas Durham 31 Oct 1890-17 Jul 1973
1 Peter H. Beckett 1857-1942 m Mary E. Reed 1858-19362 Maymie Caroline Coxey Beckett 2 May 1894-17 Aug 1969 (all names were given at birth)
2 William Thomas Durham m 6 Nov 1912 Maymie Cariline Coxey Beckett3 Dorothy Winona Durham b 1913 d 1988 m Norace Carney b 1912 d 19833 Warren Jerome Durham b 1915 m ? living3 Floyd Harlen Durham b 1918 m Doris --, living -- owns Delaware Air Park3 Iona Phillena Durham b 1923 d 1983 m William Thomas Reed b 1898 d 19893 Brenda Cleo Durham b 1920 d 1994 m & div James Coker living3 Donald Durham b 1930 m 1975 div 1978 (name?) died 1996 undertaker
We met last week with Corrine Durham Dean at her condo in Dover. She is now82 and in fairly good health, but with a worrisome blockage in a carotidartery. Her brothers Warren and Floyd are living. Floyd is having problemswith coronary blockages. If you want to talk to them, do it toot sweet.
Betty
Subj: RE: Death records, etc.Date: 8/31/98 11:49:19 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Betty. With my living in Florida, alas, it is slightly difficult for me to obtain death records, etc, in person. I have always thus had to order them through the mail. I just checked my notes, and at the last time I ordered records from DE or NJ, it was $5 per search for DE, and $4 for NJ, (so my $10 remark was a little over-estimated) (some states, such as MI, are as high as $15). One has to be careful with NJ, however. They stopped doing searches for "genealogical purposes." If you don't want them to refuse a request, one has to put "family purposes" or some such other ambiguous reason on the form. Thanks. JCC P.S. And do the DE Archives have ALL death records there? It used to be that death & marriage records 1930-present were at the office of vital statistics, and pre-1930 would be at the Archives. (And birth records pre-1920).
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Sunday, August 30, 1998 9:21 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Jemina Handsor vs. Okea/Okes??
In a message dated 8/30/98 3:18:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,spiff@ writes:
> We know the death certificate of their daughter Angelina> Munce/Munson Dean lists her as Jemima Okea/Okes (hard to read).> Do any of you have death certificates for any of the other children?> > (Here is a list):> 1. Lydia Ann Munce Sammons (d. 1908 in DE).> 2. Isaiah "Zaddock" Munce/Muntz (d. 02 Jun 1905 in DE).> 3. Josiah (aka Joseph?) Munce (d. date unknown).> 4. James Henry Munce/Muncey (d. 29 Mar 1919 in NJ).> 5. Daniel Munce (d. date unknown).> 6. Margaret Munce (d. date unknown).> 7. Mary Elizabeth Munce Sammons (d. 08 Nov 1914 in DE).> 8. Hannah Munce (d. date unknown).> 9. Angelina Munce/Munson Dean (d. 01 Feb 1917 in NJ).> 10. Angelica Munce Miller (d. 13 Nov 1919 in DE).> 11. Robert Munce III (d. date unknown).> 12. Nehemiah Munce (d. 07 Mar 1904 in ?).> 13. Jeremiah Munce (d. date unknown).> > Harry, do you have a copy of James' death certificate? What does it> state?> How did we first come to know that Jemina's maiden name was> supposedly Handsor in the first place? Is this what's listed on James' death> certificate?> > Preston, do you have copies of the death certificates for the two> daughters who married Sammons'?> > Anyone with any additional information, or any death certificates of> the children above, please share with the rest of us, so we don't have to> attempt to order them at $10 a pop, or whatever they are now.> > Thanks very much everyone for your help!!> JCC> > ----------> From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 1998 12:49 PM> To: spiff@> Cc: JACKLYN001@; AquaBetty> Subject: Angeline Munce Dean> > Hi Gang,> > < snip >> > To explore any possible Oakey connection we need more death> certificates from other children of Jemina. Does anyone have death> certificates for the Sammons girls?> Are there any Oakey/Hansor marriage records?> > Harry> > ----------> From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 1998 6:06 PM> To: AquaBetty; Beth Morris; bordleycsw@; C.Ross Dellinger; Charles C > Subject: Hansor/Oakey Mystery> > Hi Gang,> > I think the only way we are going to resolve this problem is if we get> the death certificates of some of the other children of Jemina Hansor> Munce.> It is possible that she was a young widow when she married Robert II.> If so, Hansor could be her first marriage name.> > Harry
Subj: FW: Handsor vs. Okes (Lynn's reply)Date: 8/31/98 7:58:47 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'),
Hello, all. Below is a message from Lynn regarding the (attempted) death certificate of Isaiah "Zaddock" Munce/Muntz. JCC P.S. I sent off in today's mail, a request to the National Archives to locate Zaddock's Civil War pension file. I think it should be readily available, but if not, I will attempt a request of the military file.
----------From: JACKLYN001@[SMTP:JACKLYN001@]Sent: Monday, August 31, 1998 3:43 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re:
Hi John,
RE: Death CertificatesYears ago I requested Isaiah "Zaddock" Durhams death certificate from the DEArchives. I was told it could not be found.
Lynn
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Sunday, August 30, 1998 3:22 PMTo: 'Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'; 'Bordley, MayBelle & Sandy Subject: RE: Jemina Handsor vs. Okea/Okes??
Hello, all.
Harry had a good idea when he suggested (see messages attached below) that we try to obtain death certificates of the other children of Robert Munce Jr. and Jemina, to see what they list for Jemina's maiden name.
We know the death certificate of their daughter Angelina Munce/Munson Dean lists her as Jemima Okea/Okes (hard to read). Do any of you have death certificates for any of the other children?
(Here is a list): 1. Lydia Ann Munce Sammons (d. 1908 in DE). 2. Isaiah "Zaddock" Munce/Muntz (d. 02 Jun 1905 in DE). 3. Josiah (aka Joseph?) Munce (d. date unknown). 4. James Henry Munce/Muncey (d. 29 Mar 1919 in NJ). 5. Daniel Munce (d. date unknown). 6. Margaret Munce (d. date unknown). 7. Mary Elizabeth Munce Sammons (d. 08 Nov 1914 in DE). 8. Hannah Munce (d. date unknown). 9. Angelina Munce/Munson Dean (d. 01 Feb 1917 in NJ). 10. Angelica Munce Miller (d. 13 Nov 1919 in DE). 11. Robert Munce III (d. date unknown). 12. Nehemiah Munce (d. 07 Mar 1904 in ?). 13. Jeremiah Munce (d. date unknown).
Harry, do you have a copy of James' death certificate? What does it state? How did we first come to know that Jemina's maiden name was supposedly Handsor in the first place? Is this what's listed on James' death certificate?
Preston, do you have copies of the death certificates for the two daughters who married Sammons'?
Anyone with any additional information, or any death certificates of the children above, please share with the rest of us, so we don't have to attempt to order them at $10 a pop, or whatever they are now.
Thanks very much everyone for your help!! JCC
----------From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]Sent: Sunday, August 02, 1998 12:49 PMTo: spiff@Cc: JACKLYN001@; AquaBettySubject: Angeline Munce Dean
Hi Gang,
< snip >
To explore any possible Oakey connection we need more deathcertificates from other children of Jemina. Does anyone have deathcertificates for the Sammons girls? Are there any Oakey/Hansor marriage records?
Harry
From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]Sent: Sunday, July 19, 1998 6:06 PMTo: AquaBetty; Beth Morris; bordleycsw@; C.Ross Dellinger; Charles C Subject: Hansor/Oakey Mystery
Hi Gang,
I think the only way we are going to resolve this problem is if we getthe death certificates of some of the other children of Jemina HansorMunce. It is possible that she was a young widow when she married Robert II.If so, Hansor could be her first marriage name.
Harry
Subj: RE: Handsor vs. Okea (Harry's reply)Date: 9/2/98 10:36:42 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ (AquaBetty@), belle25@ (belle25@),
(Betty & Bob Canjelosi)
Hi, Patti. The Robert who married Jemina Okea/Handsor was Robert Munce Jr. This is also the same Robert identified per James Munce/Muncey's death certificate as having a spouse named Margaret. However, as Harry noted, he believes that the informant supplying the info for the death certificate ("Aunt Bess") made an error, and mistakenly named the grandmother's name instead of the mother's/Jemina's. He bases this theory on the fact that Robert Sr was married to a Margaret. JCC
From: Bennett Carpenter[SMTP:bennettj@]Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 1998 7:53 PMTo: rbright4@; psam@; LFREIDA15@; Subject: Re: Handsor vs. Okea (Harry's reply)
Thanks to Harry for taking the time to check up on this! I sure doappreciate it!
So..... did the same Robert Munce who married Jemima Hansor (5/30/1832 Dover) latermarry Margaret? (when/where??)who later married Mr. Brown (when/where?)
Angeline Munce or was it Angelica Munce's death certificate that says RobertMunson and Jemima Okea were her parents? When/Where did this marriagehappen? Is this a different Robert or the same Robert with two wives namedJemima and one named Margaret?
At least I know that Robert Munce and Margaret ? are our bloodline but I amconfused after there.
I guess this is what makes it fun!
Patti Muncey Carpenter
Subject: FW: Handsor vs. Okea (Harry's reply)
> Hi, all.> Here's Harry's response (below) ,concerning the death certificate of JamesHenry Munce/Muncey.> JCC>>---------->From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]>Sent: Sunday, August 30, 1998 9:59 PM>To: John C. Carter>Subject: Re: Jemina Handsor vs. Okea/Okes??>>Hi John,>> Yes I have James Munce's death certificate. Sit down for this one.>Father Robert Munce. Mother Margaret maiden name unknown. My Aunt Bess>evidently was under stress at the time of her father's death and skipped>a generation. This is one reason that I think that the Margaret Muncey>who married a Brown two years after Robert Munce I's death was his>widow.. Also the repeated use of Margaret since then.>> Harry>>John C. Carter wrote:>>>> Hello, all.>>>> Harry had a good idea when he suggested (see messages attached>> below) that we try to obtain death certificates of the other children ofRobert>> Munce Jr. and Jemina, to see what they list for Jemina's maiden name.>>>> We know the death certificate of their daughter Angelina>> Munce/Munson Dean lists her as Jemima Okea/Okes (hard to read).>> Do any of you have death certificates for any of the otherchildren?>>>> (Here is a list):>> 1. Lydia Ann Munce Sammons (d. 1908 in DE).>> 2. Isaiah "Zaddock" Munce/Muntz (d. 02 Jun 1905 in DE).>> 3. Josiah (aka Joseph?) Munce (d. date unknown).>> 4. James Henry Munce/Muncey (d. 29 Mar 1919 in NJ).>> 5. Daniel Munce (d. date unknown).>> 6. Margaret Munce (d. date unknown).>> 7. Mary Elizabeth Munce Sammons (d. 08 Nov 1914 in DE).>> 8. Hannah Munce (d. date unknown).>> 9. Angelina Munce/Munson Dean (d. 01 Feb 1917 in NJ).>> 10. Angelica Munce Miller (d. 13 Nov 1919 in DE).>> 11. Robert Munce III (d. date unknown).>> 12. Nehemiah Munce (d. 07 Mar 1904 in ?).>> 13. Jeremiah Munce (d. date unknown).>>>> Harry, do you have a copy of James' death certificate? What doesit>> state?>> How did we first come to know that Jemina's maiden name was>> supposedly Handsor in the first place? Is this what's listed on James'death>> certificate?>>>> Preston, do you have copies of the death certificates for the two>> daughters who married Sammons'?>>>> Anyone with any additional information, or any death certificatesof>> the children above, please share with the rest of us, so we don't have to>> attempt to order them at $10 a pop, or whatever they are now.>>>> Thanks very much everyone for your help!!>> JCC>>>> ---------->> From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 1998 12:49 PM>> To: spiff@>> Cc: JACKLYN001@; AquaBetty>> Subject: Angeline Munce Dean>>>> Hi Gang,>>>> < snip >>>>> To explore any possible Oakey connection we need more death>> certificates from other children of Jemina. Does anyone have death>> certificates for the Sammons girls?>> Are there any Oakey/Hansor marriage records?>>>> Harry>>>> ---------->> From: Harry Muncey[SMTP:hmuncey@]>> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 1998 6:06 PM>> To: AquaBetty; Beth Morris; bordleycsw@; C.Ross Dellinger;Charles C Counceller; Charles R. Martin; cora wade; Counsellor; DEBORAH PUNGER; FLOYD HANDSOR; JACKLYN001@; John C. Carter; Jon L Miller; LeaL. Dowd; MAYBELLE BORDLEY; MINNIEDAN; Mollie A. Steward; Montigre;MPierce96@; Ned Heite; PathoPeace; Preston L. Sammons; Rose MarieRidgeway; seen1@; Senamoon@; Shirley Hendrix;ShngSprt@; voices@; WyNot22@>> Cc: Bennett Carpenter>> Subject: Hansor/Oakey Mystery>>>> Hi Gang,>>>> I think the only way we are going to resolve this problem is if we get>> the death certificates of some of the other children of Jemina Hansor>> Munce.>> It is possible that she was a young widow when she married Robert II.>> If so, Hansor could be her first marriage name.>>>> Harry
Subj: RE: New stuff on MitsawokettDate: 9/2/98 11:38:20 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Betty & Ray:
Comments re: Mitsawokett site:
Can't access Manship. Must be because I use Netscape, as described in your earlier message.
Accessed Fork Branch.
Comments: What are the numbers in the right hand column??
Errors:
"Oker, Alfred" should be "Coker, Alfred"
"Coker, Sara H" should be "Coker, Sarah"
Under "Hansley, George E," why is the font of "Henrietta" so large compared to the rest?
"Ridgeway, McKinley" should be "Ridgway, McKinley"
"Carney, James P" death date "Aug 1934" should be "Aug 24, 1934"
Also, in the section on "Moors" articles, you note that the article entitled "The True Story of the Delaware Moors" was from the Smyrna "Press," dated 01 Jan 1896. However, I have the same article, photocopied from the 01 Dec 1895 issue of The Philadelphia "Press." Is this a typo, error, or did the story run in both papers? If the latter, should the Philadelphia "Press" be referenced as well? (Did I send you a copy of my copy from the Philadelphia "Press"?)
That's all for now. Thanks! JCC
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Friday, July 24, 1998 1:32 AMTo: sstreet@; JACKLYN001@; bugs@; c.hall@csu-Subject: New stuff on Mitsawokett
Hi all,
In addition to Manship Cemetery, new additions to the site include Fork BranchCemetery, Moors articles and Tri-racial Isolate articles.
Please let us know of errors & typos.
If any of you have a cemetery database in the works, please share it with us.
B&R Terry
Subj: FW: SANDERS, John b 1746, Del>PA s/o Robert SANDERS & Mary WILLIAMSDate: 9/4/98 11:34:21 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
Hello, Ned & everyone. Thought you might be interested in this Sanders reference.... JCC
----------From: Larson[SMTP:larson@]Sent: Thursday, September 03, 1998 1:39 PMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: SANDERS, John b 1746, Del>PA s/o Robert SANDERS & Mary WILLIAMS
John SANDERS,(b abt 1746 in Mill Creek Hd, Delaware) is the son ofRobert SANDERS (of White Marsh, Montgomery, Penn) and Mary WILLIAMS. Hemarried Mary "Ann" LEWIS in 1765 in Chester Co, Penn. They had 7children: Ellis, Mary, John, Amos, Benjamin, Nathan, Benjamin.
Searching for info on John's parents--Robert SANDERS and Mary WILLIAMS.Did John have siblings?
Thanks for any help,Jessie Larson
Subj: RE: Durhams/Carneys/etcDate: 9/4/98 6:23:42 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), belle25@ ('Bordley, MayBelle & Sandy (belle25@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)'), psam@ ('Sammons, Preston L. (psam@)')CC: eheite@ ('Heite, Ned (eheite@)'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)'), rbright4@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie (rbright4@)')
Hi, Lynn & all:
Have been going over this Carney / Durham information, trying to sort this family out.
Here is what has been noted so far:
1. Caroline Carney Durham died 24 Dec 1914, and was 56 years old, according to her death certificate. Lynn notes that Caroline's gravestone states she was 56 years, 8 months and 10 days old. Her death certificate also states she was the daughter of James Carney (b. DE) and Sallie Sanger (b. DE). The informant for the death certificate was Daniel Durham, presumably her husband.
2. Lynn notes that, per MayBelle, Caroline's father was Martin Carney. I'm still digging in my notes, but I don't think this seeming discrepancy is a problem, because I seem to remember that his actual (full) name was James Martin Carney. Will keep looking for documentation.
3. Transcript of audio tape recorded in 1980 for the Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape Indians of NJ by Dr. C.A. Weslager, reading notes he took in 1941-43, in preparation for his book "Delaware's Forgotten Folk," gives the following information:
"I interviewed John Carney. John was an ex-prize fighter and then was in his 80's. He had blue eyes and a yellowish complexion. He was the Uncle of Minous Durham, a brother to Minous' mother. He said there was no Indian blood in either side of his family as far as he knew, he said that his father was Martin Carney and his mother was a Songo, he said that both of his parents were Moors that is the word he used. John said that the Carneys were an old family there, but his mother's folks were from Baltimore or Washington."
Earlier on that page it also mentions: "I also visited Minous Durham again he had a farm. I spoke with him at great length about his family. He said that his grandfather was Bennie Durham and that he was a white man."
So, since we know Minous to be Daniel & Caroline's son, (and Daniel to be Benjamin Durham II's son), we have corroboration from Caroline's brother John's comments in Weslager's notes that their parents were James Martin Carney and Sallie Songo/Sanger.
4. However, in March 1988 when I visited Corrine Durham Dean, daughter of Thomas Durham, brother of Minous, she told me that her grandmother, Daniel Durham's wife, was a Carney and that she (the grandmother) was a sister of Shade Carney. And Shade (Shadrach) Carney is supposed to be the son of Shary (aka Charles?) (Shadrach Sr) Carney and Mary Jane Carty, who were married (according to the Carty-Wyatt family Bible) on 04 Sep 1849.
5. Preston's GEDCOM file that he shared with me also shows Shary Carney & Mary Jane Carty/Carter Carney as having a son John, but not a daughter Caroline. He does have Caroline in his FTM as being the daughter of James Carney and Sarah Songo Sanger.
SO: The discrepancy seems to lie in my having Caroline as a daughter of Shary & Mary Jane, based on what Corrine Durham Dean told me in 1988. Should I simply wipe this out, and connect her as a daughter of James/Martin & Sarah/Sallie? Or does anyone else have any additional corroboration?
However, if Caroline does belong as a daughter of James/Martin, how can John Carney be an Uncle to Minous Durham, as noted by Weslager above? Or are there TWO John Carneys among these two families? (Preston does NOT have a brother John listed for Caroline in his FTM).
Here's for pushing it: Could James/Martin/Shary/Charles/Shadrach Sr all be the same person (!!) and have two wives, one Sallie/Sarah Songo/Sanger and the other Mary Jane Carty/Carter?? :-}
* sigh * .... Anyway, does anyone at least have any evidence or documentation to show that James and Martin are one-and-the-same?
Now that I've completely destroyed everyone's ability to think straight...! Thanks, everyone, for your help! JCC
----------From: JACKLYN001@[SMTP:JACKLYN001@]Sent: Monday, August 31, 1998 3:43 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Durhams/Carneys/etc
Hi John,
Not sure if I can help you on this: I have Daniel's deathdate as 9 Jan. 1931 based on the Manship Grave Markers (I have photos ) And I have Caroline as being the daughter of Martin Carneyand a Songo (per Maybelle). Her grave marker says died Dec. 24, 1914, Aged 56yrs, 8 months & 10 days. You might want to check with Maybelle to find outwhere she got the info on Caroline's parents.
The only I child of Shary and Mary J. Carney I have is Shadrick "Sherry"Carney who married Daniel's sister, Mariah "Minnie" Durham.
Lynn
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Sunday, August 30, 1998 3:34 PMTo: 'Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'Cc: 'Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)'; 'Sammons, Preston L. (psam@)'Subject: RE: Durhams/Carneys/etc
Hi, Betty. Still digging through some catch-up mail. Came across this (message attached below), and started to enter the dates into my FTM, and came across the following:
You have Daniel Durham (who m. Caroline Carney) as d. 09 Jan 1931. However, my FTM has him d. 09 Sep 1919. Wait, I just found I have a copy of Caroline's death certificate, and it lists her age at death as 56 (on 24 Dec 1914), and states she was the daughter of James Carney and Sallie Sanger (prob. a Songo derivative). But I have her in my FTM as being the daughter of Shary Carney and Mary Jane Carty Carney. ????? The death certificate also lists Daniel Durham as the informant, which means he was still living at the time of her death in 1914. ?????
Are we talking about two different Daniel's & Caroline's????
Also, in your message, I can't figure out what the numbers in the left column represent. I can't seem to find the preceding message to see what context the numbering might have meant. The children in the paragraph containing William thru Donald--who are these the children of? You mention that two of them are living brothers of Corrine Durham Dean, but Corrine's name is not in the list of children...??
Please accept my apologies for being confused, and for inquiring about this at such late notice, after the fact. Any help you can offer would be appreciated.
Thanks! JCC
----------From: AquaBetty[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 1998 5:12 PMTo: spiff@; jmalone@; 71764.3615@Subject: REED
Hi,
Regarding John's e-mail, "Thomas Addison Reed's sister Molly Reed married a Pete Becket and one of their children married, Tommy Durham.Their children included Warren Durham who may have owned the CheswoldAirport, Donald and undertaker, Dorothy, Corrine and Iona. Apparentlythere are Carter's, Pierce's, Carney's, etc. in the family lines. Youand others may have more information for her. The Cheswold connection isvery clear."
1 Daniel Durham d 9 Jan 1931 m Caroline (Carney?) d 24 Dec 19142 William Thomas Durham 31 Oct 1890-17 Jul 1973
1 Peter H. Beckett 1857-1942 m Mary E. Reed 1858-19362 Maymie Caroline Coxey Beckett 2 May 1894-17 Aug 1969 (all names were given at birth)
2 William Thomas Durham m 6 Nov 1912 Maymie Cariline Coxey Beckett3 Dorothy Winona Durham b 1913 d 1988 m Norace Carney b 1912 d 19833 Warren Jerome Durham b 1915 m ? living3 Floyd Harlen Durham b 1918 m Doris --, living -- owns Delaware Air Park3 Iona Phillena Durham b 1923 d 1983 m William Thomas Reed b 1898 d 19893 Brenda Cleo Durham b 1920 d 1994 m & div James Coker living3 Donald Durham b 1930 m 1975 div 1978 (name?) died 1996 undertaker
We met last week with Corrine Durham Dean at her condo in Dover. She is now82 and in fairly good health, but with a worrisome blockage in a carotidartery. Her brothers Warren and Floyd are living. Floyd is having problemswith coronary blockages. If you want to talk to them, do it toot sweet.
Betty
Subj: FW: NOW WHAT DO I DO WITH ALL OF THIS STUFF?Date: 98-09-09 21:12:23 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
Hello, all. Something to think about.... JCC
----------From: Laien@[SMTP:Laien@]Sent: Monday, September 07, 1998 11:32 PMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: NOW WHAT DO I DO WITH ALL OF THIS STUFF?
Folks,
I apologize for the length of this message, but it really got me thinking.Its something we all need to consider
Rob Hall*****************************************************************************York) Genealogical Society newsletter, "Hear Ye! Hear Ye!" in >which it will appear in the December 1998 issue. The author is >immediate past president of the Rochester Genealogical Society. > > NOW WHAT DO I DO WITH ALL OF THIS STUFF? > > by Edward Henry Gaulin (Sr.) > >A message on the Internet caught my eye the other day and I can't >get it out of my mind. A West Coast genealogist had been >exchanging information with a researcher in Virginia for some >time. Then it happened. Her last message bounced -- it couldn't >be delivered as the address no longer existed. Fortunately she >had received a number of family group sheets from her >correspondent which listed a telephone number. When she called >the number a man answered, so she asked for her Internet friend >and, after a slight hesitation was told, "Oh, Mary Ann passed >away three weeks ago." Shocked, but ever gracious, she expressed >her sympathy and commented how close this long-distance >relationship had become and how it will be missed by her. The >husband explained that he was sorry that he couldn't be of any >help because he really didn't know much about what his wife was >doing with her genealogy. > >Perhaps you too have noticed at genealogical gatherings that the >average age of the participants is something in excess of 39 >years, at least judging by hair color. Most of us really don't >have a lot of time to devote to our hobby until after the kids >are grown, out of school and we've retired. Then it is no longer >a hobby, it becomes an obsession. At some point in our continuous >search for dead people, our ancestors, we recognize our own >mortality and start to think about a permanent home for our >research. If our children or grandchildren appear to be >interested, we have it made, but frequently that's not the case. >Then what happens to our "stuff"? > >Genealogists are usually pretty smart people, until it comes to >providing for the distribution of their genealogical assets. The >latter, in my case anyway, is a room full of books, journals, >magazines, pamphlets, maps, photographs, brochures, newsletters, >computer equipment and furniture (desk, chairs, file cabinets, >tables, lamps, etc.). The files are loaded with folders bearing >family and town names, historic events, and a bunch labeled >"MISC." There are miles of computer printouts, hundreds of >photocopies, and many "original" vital records. My desk is >usually loaded with correspondence awaiting an answer -- either >mine or from someone else. What should my wife do with all this >stuff when I make the ultimate research trip -- a personal >meeting with my ancestors? > >Some of our brighter colleagues say "My college library is >getting all my stuff" or it's going to the local public library >or to the LDS Family History Library in Salt Lake City or even to >the Library of Congress. Well, I hate to be the one to tell you >this, but unless you are a celebrity or a huge financial donor, >these institutions probably won't want your material -- they just >don't have room for it. They would be grateful for a copy of your >book, but they might not want the manuscript or research notes. >The FHL would appreciate a GEDCOM disk of your genealogy database >files, but it doesn't want your paper pedigree charts or family >group sheets. > >So what are your spouse and children to do with all of your >stuff? They could really do a couple of dumb things with it if >you don't provide guidance to them while you still can. It could >be placed in the weekly trash collection and don't say "They >wouldn't do that" because it unfortunately happens all the time. >How about a garage sale? Now that is really scary, but it also >happens every day. Remember all those old photos and tintypes you >have seen in flea markets? How about all those bargain genealogy >books you bought because you got to that garage sale before the >dealers did? They all had to come from someplace. > >What should you do to insure the sane distribution of your >genealogical assets? Perhaps the first thing is to make a record >of what you have and then try to keep it current. Show the >acquisition date and how much you paid for each item on the >inventory sheets. This is especially helpful for artifacts, >collections, and books. A photographic record of these items, >including those of rare books, could also be useful. Microfilm, >microfiche and complete photocopies of books and some records >have value. Back issues of many journals, newsletters, and >magazines are also in demand by genealogists and therefore have >value. However, if you don't tell them what is valuable, your >heirs probably won't know. > >Now that you have identified your assets, you need to tell >someone what you want done with them. Maybe the simplest way is >to prepare a letter to your heirs, but remember this lacks the >force of law. If they want to, they can toss everything in the >trash. A better way to provide for the distribution is in your >will, particularly if you also designate sufficient funds to >carry out your wishes. Your Last Will and Testament is also where >you may make specific bequests: your copy of the 1898 edition of >Burke's Peerage to your FGS Conference roommate or your old >roll-top desk to your newest granddaughter. Your wishes can now >be enforced by the courts, if necessary. > >If you still want to have any of your assets given to your alma >mater or a local library or anywhere else, personally contact >that agency and discuss the possibility -- right now. It won't >come as a surprise to them and they should be able to advise you >immediately of any conditions of acceptance. If you can support >those conditions, ask for a written acknowledgment that can be >placed with your will. > >Some other things that you can do right now are to distribute >copies of your research among your family, friends, and, perhaps, >local or national libraries. This is simple if you have >progressed to the book-writing stage, but don't be too concerned >if you haven't. Many genealogists assemble their pedigree charts, >group sheets, pertinent vital records, selected family >photographs, and other important documents in notebook form. They >write a brief introduction, provide a table of contents, and >sometimes an index before having copies made for distribution. >Afterwards, the notebook can be kept current with a new year's >letter which might include new charts and photos. > >Computerized genealogical data can be distributed in the same way >on diskette. Sometimes an envelope or jacket is provided in the >notebook described above to house data disks. Another way some >researchers try to insure the safeguarding of their electronic >data is to submit it to the LDS Ancestral File (tm) or one or >more of the other commercial collections. If you don't know how >to do this, consult your local genealogical society or Family >History Center or even the public library for instructions. > >Another thing you can do right now to benefit your heirs is to >clean up your files. Eliminate unnecessary correspondence and >duplicate copies of records. Toss out all those old printouts you >made in 1984 on your Apple IIe computer. Sell all the >"Genealogical Helper" magazines you have saved since 1973, >because you will never open one of them again and you know it. If >you get 50 cents each for them you can have a pretty good dinner. >Give away all that old computer software that is taking up room >on your bookshelves -- it's probably not worth anything anyway. >Label your photographs, and diskettes too. > >I find it a bit morbid, but you may wish to write your epitaph >and select your tombstone now to insure future researchers will >not encounter some of the same problems that you've had. > >If you decide to follow some of these suggestions, when you do >eventually meet your ancestors they may thank you for >perpetuating their memory. They may also show you where you made >some of your mistakes and be able to fill in a few of the blank >spaces in your previous research. > >Remember, do it now; there may be no tomorrow. > >PERMISSION TO REPRINT articles from MISSING LINKS is granted >unless specifically stated otherwise, PROVIDED: (1) the reprint >is used for noncommercial, educational purposes; (2) full credit >is given to MISSING LINKS and the author involved, in a notice >crediting MISSING LINKS (volume, number, publication date) and >the author (name, e-mail address, and URL, if applicable).
Subj: RE: JCC's questionsDate: 98-09-13 15:02:52 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Betty & Ray. Just a quick thanks for the information in the message below (still need to go through it in detail), and to let you know that the copies of the 1895 "Philadelphia Press" version of the Moor article will go out in tomorrow's mail. Thanks! JCC
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 12:53 AMTo: spiff@Subject: JCC's questions
"digging through some catch-up mail"
Number in left column is generation number (2William Thomas Durham is son of 1Daniel Durham).
1 Daniel Durham d 9 Jan 1931 m Caroline (Carney?) d 24 Dec 19142 William Thomas Durham 31 Oct 1890-17 Jul 1973
1 Peter H. Beckett 1857-1942 m Mary E. Reed 1858-19362 Maymie Caroline Coxey Beckett 2 May 1894-17 Aug 1969 (all names were given at birth)
2 William Thomas Durham m 6 Nov 1912 Maymie Cariline Coxey Beckett3 Dorothy Winona Durham b 1913 d 1988 m Norace Carney b 1912 d 19833 Warren Jerome Durham b 1915 m ? living3 Floyd Harlen Durham b 1918 m Doris --, living -- owns Delaware Air Park3 Iona Phillena Durham b 1923 d 1983 m William Thomas Reed b 1898 d 19893 Brenda Cleo Durham b 1920 d 1994 m & div James Coker living3 Donald Durham b 1930 m 1975 div 1978 (name?) died 1996 undertaker
2William & Maymie are the parents of the 3's, Dorothy thru Donald.
Thomas E Jack age 1, in their household. We were told that Sarah Mosley m>Sylvester Ridgway/Jack and later m Morris (Mike) Carney on the census her>oldest child is Thomas E , then Fraizer and Elizabeth Carney (the ages match)>Also on one of Ed and Louise Heite reports they have listed Thomas E Ridgway>as Sally's Carney's son.------I just have a feeling that this is what>we're looking for>but no proof!!!!!! I'll look up the census records. (Note: The two>Sarah/Sallie>Mosleys were in different generations with different parents.)">> My comments:> 1. I thought the Carney who was called "Mike" was another William>Carney, not Morris Carney. William "Mike" Carney married Sarah/Sally>Mosely, and they had children Elizabeth Carney (who m. Carlos Morris) and>Frazier Carney (who m. 1st Emma Mosely & 2nd Nora Jackson). "Mike" and>Sally are the couple whose home is now on display at the DE Agricultural>Museum. I knew that this Sally had a son (out-of-wedlock, perhaps? or via a>1st husband who died young?) before she married Mike, and this son ended up>being called Thomas Carney, even though he wasn't a Carney. This is>interesting if he is the Thomas Ridgway you mention. But if I'm not mistaken,>Sylvester Ridgway was around a while (i.e. didn't die young), so if this>is the>same Thomas, and if Sylvester was his father, then he must have been an out->of-wedlock child.
Ned Heite, Camden, DE
Subj: RE: Carney BibleDate: 98-09-21 22:30:02 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)')
Hi, Lorraine. Thanks for all the information below. It really helped clear up some questions. :-)
I hate to ask more questions, but I'll try to keep it to a minimum (I've attached--below this message--all previous messages on this subject, for those who may want to check back):
1. In #3 below, you mention Edward Carney's tombstone. Which cemetery is it in? Immanuel Union/Manship?
2. Also in #3, you said Doris Mosely Carney was a daughter-in-law of Edward Carney & Bertha Driggus. What was the son's name who Doris Mosely married? Do you have a list of all of Edward & Bertha's children?
3. In #5 below, you mention a Joseph Carney (who m. Mary Dean). Do you know how he connects to the other Carneys (who his parents were)?
4. Regarding Letisha Ridgway Owens (Caleb Owens' wife) being the daughter of Tilghman Ridgway & Sinia Mosely Ridgway, thanks for helping to clear this up. I see in my notes that apparently Mary Agnes Morris Cuyjet did NOT tell me that this Letisha was a Johnson--I can't figure out where I got that from, and mixed her up with the other Letisha. [Perhaps I misinterpreted some info that Preston sent me...?] Mary Agnes did tell me that her uncle Timothy was a brother of Sara Edith Owens Morris, her mother, and that Timothy married a Sammons (first name Prudence came from data from Preston). [Mary Agnes also told me that there was a grandson of this Timothy, named Earl Owen--apparently a corruption of Owens--and that he was age 26 (in 1990/1) and that he was working on the family history, and had visited Mary Agnes the preceding September. It certainly would help if we could locate him! ]. However, (you KNEW there had to be a "however," right?) ...I don't show Tilghman and Sinia having a daughter named Letisha, but most of my records of their family only date from the 1850 census, when they were both age 35, so they certainly could have had several more children. Can you confirm if Letisha Ridgway was born after 1850? (The children I have for Tilghman and Sinia are: Elizabeth, Timothy, Matilda, Sarah, Frank & Susan--also from after 1850: John Henry and Greensboro Sr). As for Letisha Johnson, daughter of Henry & Matilda Ridgway Johnson: Since this Letisha was the niece of the above Letisha (since Matilda was the elder Letisha's sister), she was probably named after her.
5. Regarding the 1900 Kent Co census notation of the family of Edward & Annie Sammons: You have the 2nd child listed as Mary/Merry, b. Sep 1890. Do you think this is the same person as Lillie Mae, who m. Willie Coker? Lillie Mae's tombstone has her b. date as Sep 1891. But if they were two different people, Mary and Lillie Mae, why isn't Lillie Mae showing in the 1900 census?
OK, I guess that's enough for now. :-) I don't mean to hit you with this all at once, but I finally had a chance to go through this info in detail, and thought I share the discussion.
Take your time going through it; Lord knows I did! Take care, John
----------From: LFREIDA 15[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Sunday, April 12, 1998 2:51 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Carney Bible
Hi John:
Sorry, I had typed this up and tried to send this to you and ccPreston andboth times it came back after that it just slipped my mind till I got your E-mail today.
I'm going to try to answer your questions from 3/22/98
The first #1-to #5 were in the Joseph and Mary dean family Bible.
#1 Robert Carney you know who he was.
#2 Mary Carney Sammons ( I don't have any idea either)
#3 Edward Carney was a son of Joseph and Mary Dean Carney , b Jan 25 1883, mBertha Driggus( there was a question about his birthmonth) I copied June 251883 from the Carney Bible, but his tombstone and Doris Mosley Carney (hisdaughter in law ,say his birthmonth is Jan 25 1883. There is a census record1900 kc that has June as the birthmonth ( I figured that the Census always hasdifferent dates and maybe I misunderstood my own writing) Therefore we shouldgo with Jan as his birth month.
#4 Elmira Dean ( I don't know who she was but because of family ties she mostlikely is the wife of Robert Dean) #5 Blanche Sammons Carney stated thatElmira was a cousin to her mother (Anna Rose Mathews Sammons)
#5 Blanche Sammons Carney was the wife of Wm Dawson Carney, son of Joseph andMary Dean Carney. Blanche was b 1900 and d 8/25/1986, both are b at the LittleUnion/Manship Cemetary , Wm Dawson was always called Dawson.
1 Question about Timothy Owens, son of Caleb and Letishia Ridgway Owens ,this Letishia was the dau of Tillman and Sinia Mosley Ridgway. LetishiaJohnson was the dau of Henry and Matilida Ridgeway Johnson and this Letishiam Edward Hughes. I can't confirm that this is the same Timothy that mPrudence Sammons.
The rest of your questions about Aunt Blanch Sammons I can't confirm any of itbecause what is on the tape does not match much that is in my Mother's papersor the notes that I had taken from what Mom told me, the further I look theworse it gets, Parents don't match either, dates don't match, from what Momtold me Edward and Annie were her parents. I listened to the tape again, mycousin was looking at Aunt Blanche's Bible while Aunt Blanche was holding theBible and she asked her who these people were Annie and Gilbert, my cousinsays are these your parents and Aunt Blanche says HMHM, then she goes on andreads the dates. Then Aunt Blanch tells us about her Father always called hermother Rose, and that she had a brother Gilbert but didn't give us anyinformation about him and so on. Maybe she misunderstood the question. Weshould try to find out when her brother Gilbert died maybe that would help. Another thing a lot of the people never used theirproper names and some times that causes a lot of confusion, should probablylook at that possibility also
I had typed information from the 1900 census Kenton DE of the Edward andAnnie Sammons, family and completely omitted Gilbert the son .
Edward Sammons b June 1865, age 35Annie " b Oct 1862, age 37, m 15 yrs mother of 5Gilbert " b June 1889, age 10Merry (Mary) " b Sept 1890, age 9Prudie " b Jan 1893, age 7Sarah " b Oct 1895, age 4 all born De
Then in 1910 census record KC, town of Clayton
Sammons, Gilbert age 21 b DE " Viola wife age 18 b DE
Also KC Deaths, Smyrna ref folder #6A-1888Maude Mable Sammons age 15 months 2/7/1888Parents Edward and Annie
John I'm just going to send this to you when I try to cc Preston it alwayscomes back of course it's the computers fault.
Hope this clears up some things for you.
Lorraine
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Saturday, April 11, 1998 6:14 PMTo: 'LFREIDA 15'Cc: psam@Subject: RE: Carney Bible
Hi, Lorraine (I'm cc'ing Preston, too). (Hi, Preston!) I was working with some of this data from the Carney Bible, and just wanted to give you an update of what info I'm still curious about, for when you have a chance:
1. Still wondering who Mary Carney Sammons is.
2. Wondering who Edward Carney is.
3. Wondering if Elmira Dean is Mrs. Almira ______ Dean, wife of Robert B. Dean, Jr.
4. After a message from Preston, I think I've gotten the Blanch/Prudence/Lillie Mae/Sarah part of the Sammons family figured out. Obviously the two families I described in my March 22nd message are the same--the only discrepancy is whether their father's name was Edward or Gilbert. Lorraine: I'm wondering if you could have perhaps typed "Gilbert" by mistake, since you talk about their BROTHER Gilbert in the next sentence? Would it be possible for you to listen to the tape again, or check the notes, to see if Blanch's father was EDWARD or Gilbert? That should help clear things up.
Thanks very much! I don't want to ask too many questions now, because I know your time is very limited. :-) Thanks again for all your help! Take care, JCC
----------From: LFREIDA 15[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Monday, March 23, 1998 12:44 PMTo: spiff@Cc: psam@Subject: Re: Sammons/Carney Chart(s) Discrepancies
Hi John:
< misc >
John I'll work on the Re:Carney Bible information later and get back to you.
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Sunday, March 22, 1998 11:57 PMTo: 'Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)'Cc: 'Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'; 'Sammons, Preston L. (psam@)'Subject: RE: Carney Bible
Hi, Lorraine. I hate to tell you this, but I'm afraid I have a few more questions.... :-)
(I'm cc'ing Preston Sammons on this message, in case he recognizes the Sammons connections).
I sat down to enter all the info into my computer, but am having a hard time figuring out who all these people are.
# 1. Of course, I know who #1 Robert Carney was. # 2. Mary Carney Sammons. I have no idea who this is. # 3. Edward Carney. I have no idea who this is. # 4. Elmira Dean. I have no idea who this is. (Unless it is the Almira ______ who was married to Robert B. Dean, Jr., son of Robert Dean and Catherine Morgan Dean...?) # 5. "Aunt Blanch states that her sisters were..." (First of all, I don't know who this Blanch Sammons Carney is, either). 1. Prudence Sammons m. Timothy Owens. I'd not heard of Prudence, but I had heard of Timothy--son of Caleb Owens & Litisha Johnson Owens. (Mary Agnes Morris Cuyjet had given me some Owens family info). 2. Lillie Mae Sammons m. William Coker. I've heard of them, but never knew who Lillie Mae's parents were. By the way, you said that Blanch (?) said that Lillie Mae died 1981, but her tombstone in Immanuel Union / Manship states she died 09 Nov 1972. 3. Sarah Sammons m. Norman Frame. Never heard of either of them.
So, according to your message, these 4 daughters, Blanch, Prudence, Lillie Mae, and Sarah, were all children of Gilbert Sammons and Anna Rose Mathews Sammons. How does this Gilbert Sammons tie into the other Cheswold Sammons'?
(Preston: The names of Prudence, Lillie Mae, & Sarah all sound very much like the daughters of Edward & Annie Sammons, but your charts don't show them having a sister named Blanch. Also, it's strange that Blanch says her father's name was Gilbert, and the Prudence Lillie Mary & Sarah who were Edward's daughters had a BROTHER named Gilbert. Seems like there's a connection in here somewhere...)
And, I'm not sure who any of the Carneys are, other than Robert. I hope you can answer these questions when you have time. I'm sorry I'm still confused... Thanks again for all your help. JCC
----------From: LFREIDA 15[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Monday, March 16, 1998 2:42 PMTo: JOHN C. CarterCc: AquaBetty@Subject: re:Carney Bible
Hi John:
The day we spent with Aunt Blanch Sammons Carney , we made a tape. I hadforgotten all about that until last nite I came across a note I had written.I have played this tape about 10 times today and got some information thatmight be helpful to you. I'll try to type this in an orderly way.Tape# 1 Robert Carney b Aug 13, 1815 - d Jan 18 1889.
# 2 Mary Carney Sammons ( we had a question on the tape about the yr ofdeath) It could have been September 12, 1929 or September 12, 1939 .
#3 Edward Carney b June 25 1883 ( on the tape it''s Jan 25 1883) thatconfirms what Doris Victoria Carney had given me --so I think I had given youJune- please change--to Jan 25 1883, as correct birthday.
#4 Elmira Dean d April 6, 1930 ( Aunt Blanche states that Elmira was acousin of Anna Rose Mathews Sammons who was Aunt Blanches mother, and shesaid, that Gilbert Sammons was her father. #5 Aunt Blanch states that her sisters were: 1 Prudence (Prudie) Sammons M Timothy Owens -they lived in MD and theyhad a dau and a son William (Billy )Owens, who died after 1977, the babydaughter was in a house fire and died the same day Aunt Blanche's grandmotherwas buried.She didn't say who her grandmother was.
2 Lillie Mae Sammons m William Coker and they had a son StanleyCoker, Lillie Mae died 1981(thats all she says about them)
3 Sarah (Sadie) Sammons m Norman Frame, and they were m 1924
Then she states that her name is Blanch Dorothy Sammons m WmDawson Carney April 10, 1921. That her mother Anna Rose Mathews Sammons died1941 and that her father Gilbert Sammons died 1944 and that her fatheralways called her mother Rose. She mentions a bother Gilbert, but didn't giveus any information about him
Aunt Blanch also had her own Bible but she really didn'twant us to copy anything out of it, we asked her several times and finally wejust dropped it.- we were really thankful she let us copy the Carney Biblewhich she said she found in the attic and didn't know it was there until afew years ago.
When I first started this I was just interested in getting our familyinformation and a lot of times if I didn't know who someone was I Just didn'tthink about it much , but this has turned in to a vicious circle witheverybody tying in to each other, it's amazing .I'm going to try to cc this to AquaBetty( I haven"t tried that yet) Hope this helps
Lorraine
Subj: Re Carney BibleDate: 98-09-23 21:02:32 EDTFrom: LFREIDA 15To: spiff@CC: AquaBetty, psam@, rbright4@
Me again,
Answers to your e-mail of 98-09-21 - pg 1 Question
#1 Yes, Immanuel Union, Edward and his wife Bertha Mae Driggus are buried there. Bertha Mae Driggus, was the dau of Robert and Caroline Miller Driggus
Question #2 Doris Victoria Mosley m their son Lawrence W. Carney, I do have the information that was in the family Bible of Edward and Bertha Mae Driggus Carney, Doris gave it to me a few years back, at that time her sister-in-law Thelma Morgan Carney had the Bible, now Doris tells me Thelma's son Charles Carney has it now.
Edward Carney b Jan 25, 1883 d Nov 30, 1949, his wife Bertha Mae b May 12, 1887 d July 3, 1943, both buried at Immanuel/Manship, DETheir Children:1 Edward C Carney b Sept 27, 1906, d July 12, 1970 m Thelma Morgan b 1915, d Oct 7, 1989 , both buried at the Fordville Cemetary near Bridgeton, they were parents of Charles Carney and Francis Carney Smith 2 Carolyn Mae Carney b Jan 30, 1908 and d Aug 3, 1928 ( I don't know where she is buried)
3 Lawrence Wm Carney B July 18, 1912, d Jan 5, 1964 buried at Manship Cemetary in DE, m Doris Victoria Mosley b June 27 1915,living, they were m Oct 20, 1934, Doris is the dau of Clifton and Bertha Edna Sammons Carney. Lawrence and Doris were parents of: (a) Lawrence Wm Carney Jr. b april 4, 1934, d Nov 23, 1997, b at the Manship Cemetary in De, he was m to Ada DeVaugham, parents of Carolyn R Carneyno other info.
(b) Barbara Lee Carney b Nov 6, 1936 d March 17, 1990, Barbara m Lewis Johnson April 11, 1959 in Media PA. I don't know where she is buried.
#4 Dawson Harrison Carney b May 22 1916, d Aug 22, 1979 , he is buried at the Fernwood Cemetary, Hopewell Twp, Bridgeton, NJ, he m Della Sammons living. They were parents of : (a) Lisa May CarneyNote Della Sammons is Preston's Aunt
#5 Hazel Carney b Jan 31, 1921 d Dec 30, 1921 ( don't know where she is buried)
Question #3
Joseph Carney that m Mary Dean, was the son Sarah Corney, dau of Robert and Phobe, on his death certificate # 275 KC DE, his father was listed as unknown, According to my Mother, he was the only one w/the last name of Carney, his Brothers and Sisters were Durhams . He was b April 16, 1854 in De, d Jan 14, 1935 in Cheswold, De. Joseph and Mary Dean Carney were the owners of the Carney Bible that I got the information out of and sent you/ with the b and d dates of Robert Carney husband of Phoebe , also contained John Coker, Frankford Mosley, Elmira Dean and other death dates.
Question #4
Starting w/ 2 par However------Yes ,John the children of Tillman Jack/Ridgway and Sina Mosley,you have listed are on the 1850 Census De.the 1860 Census De, Dover Hundred M653 Roll 95 (from Harry A Muncey)lists Tillman Jack age 25, Sina age 30 (they're both getting younger) with children Elizabeth age 18, Matilida, age 14, Francis (Male) age 12, Letty (Letishia), age 8 , Sylvester age 4, Sina age 7/12, and Eliza Months age 5/12.There is another Census record that has John and Greensberry on it , like you say(but it has temporarily escaped me) w/parents Tillman and Sina.
Last paragraph of #4Yes and you will find both Letishia Johnson and Letishia Jack/Ridgeway both called Lettie on records sometimes.
Question #5Could be, I only have a copy of census record, looks like Merry, maybe it's Lillie. I still can't make up my mind. Probably should get a clearer copy. Maybe Preston will check this for you.
Lorraine
Subj: RE: Mosely Madness!Date: 98-09-25 23:42:26 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: rbright4@ ('Rose Marie Ridgeway')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)')
Hi, Sweetsie.
Thanks very much for the info. It really helped! Believe it or not, I'm slowly getting all these connections worked out! Right now, I could kiss the feet of those who invented the FTM (Family Tree Maker) program, because I don't know how I'd EVER get all these connections straight without it!
A few questions:
(BETTY: Please see question #12)
1. You have your mother-in-law's death date as Jan 1968, but my records had 10 Feb 1968, in Dover, Kent Co, DE. Unfortunately I didn't note a source when I entered it into my FTM. Is there any chance of this being correct, or should I just delete it? Just wanted to make sure before changing it....
2. Between the info on Levi Mosely and Sadie Mae Mosely, you have the date "(1963)" listed. What does this date refer to?
3. Of the four children you listed under Levi, are all four of them from the first wife as their mother (Sadie Mae Mosely)?
4. Below that, you have "#2 Dorothy Miller," and then under that you have "1. Bessie Mosely -- Clara Hansley daug." I assume the #2 in front of Dorothy Miller means she was the 2nd husband of Elisha Mosely. But what does the 1. in front of Bessie Mosely mean?
5. Wait a minute--I think something is wrong. How can Georgianna Mosely be born in 1906, if her father died in 1903?? Somehow I think the tabs/spaces must have gotten messed up when your e-mail made the journey from your Internet Server to my Internet Server. Am I reading your message right? To me, it looks like Levi Mosely b. Oct 1889, d. Aug 1903. And Sadie b. Mar 1883, d. 1911. I've learned from experience that you can't really expect tabs to translate properly from sender to receiver.
6. Also, my records had another child under Levi, but I didn't know the first name. My notes show she was a daughter, and married Earl Ridgeway. Does this sound plausible to you?
7. Under "Sadie Mae Mosely parents" (Elisha Mosely & Georgianna Carney), you have Georgianna's b. date as Mar 1866, but according to the Civil War pension papers of her father William (copies I sent), her birthdate was 18 Mar 1867.
8. What is the "(1893)" you have between Elisha and Georgianna? Is this supposed to be when they got married? But you already gave their daughter Sadie's b.date as 1883. Was she born 10 years before her parents were married?
9. Under Georgianna Carney parents (William Carney & Sarah Mosely), you have Sarah's dates as 1841-1949. Not only would this make her 108 years old, but according to William's pension papers, she was already deceased before the time he signed one of the particular documents, which was dated June 1898.
10. Of the 9 children of John Mosely & Elizabeth Johnson, I just wanted to make sure that there was a son Elisha and a daughter Mary, and that Mary also married an (another) Elisha Mosely. So she had a brother Elisha Mosely, and a husband Elisha Mosely (AND a grand-nephew Elisha Mosely--son of her niece Sadie Mae). Correct?
11. Of the children you listed of John Mosely and Clara Johnson, I think I have some extra data for you on two of them: I show the daughter Emma as having married R. Frazier Carney, (son of Wm. Morris "Mike" & Sally), and I show the daughter Sarah Elizabeth as having married Jeffrey Beckett (son of Peter Beckett & Mary Reed). Let me know if you show this not to be correct.
12. Also of the children you listed of John Mosely and Clara Johnson, you list a son Wingate B. Mosely who m. Nancy Kimmey. I already show a Wingate Mosely with a wife named Nancy _____ in my FTM as being the parents of Charles Henry Mosely (b. 15 Nov 1861) and Elizabeth Mosely (b. about 1863). At first, I thought this must be the same Wingate & Nancy. But if Purnell P. (Wingate B.'s father) was b. May 1844, there's no way he could have a son (Wingate) who could in turn have a son (Charles Henry) to be born by 1861. A grandson can't be born when the grandfather is only 17 years old. BETTY: The Wingate & Nancy I had in my FTM were your ancestors. Do you think they are the same Wingate & Nancy that Rose/Sweetsie has mentioned (and therefore the dates are somehow confused)?? Also: Is there any connection between this Nancy Kimmey, above, and the Joseph and Nancy (Mosely) Kimmey?
Well, that's it for now! Again: WHEW!
Thanks VERY much for all your help! I keep telling myself the questions can't go on forever! (At least, with the generations since 1850.)
Take care, everyone. It's just after 11:00pm here in Tampa Bay, and Hurricane Georges is (so far!) passing by without too much trouble. Of course, it has rained several times today, occasionally very hard, but the winds haven't hit all that hard yet. Here's hoping it stays that way! But the yard and house have been prepared, just in case!
Bye, John
----------From: Rose Marie Ridgeway[SMTP:rbright4@]Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 9:54 PMTo: spiff@Subject: rbright4: Re: Genealogy Records
--------- Begin forwarded message ----------From: rbright4To: lrainbow1@Subject: Re: Genealogy RecordsDate: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:56:07 +0000Message-ID: References:
Hi John,
Maybe I can clear up a little of your misery, Here goes. Starting withmy family.
Raymond Ridgeway, Jr. (Jimmy Flicker) md. Rose Marie Munsonb. 12-5/38 d. S/L b. 3/23/43 d. S/L
6 CHILDREN:
1. KAREN E. RIDGEWAY GREEN md. Charles A. Green2. RAYMOND RIDGEWAY III md. Rachel3. ALLEN W. RIDGEWAY md. Lisa Mosley4. RENA D. RIDGEWAY PIERCE md. Albert L. Pierce5. TANGELA L. RIDGEWAY md. n/m6. URIE RIDGEWAY md. Saiyida P. Baluch---------------------------------------------------------------------Jimmey Flickers Parents:
Raymond Ridgway, Sr. md. Georgianna Mosleyb. 1905 - d. Dec 1968 b. 1906 - d. Jan 1968
Children:
1. Sadie Mae Ridgeway, Corney md. Lloyd Kimmey Corney2. Raymond Ridgeway, Jr. md. Rose Marie Munson3. Sarah V. Ridgeway md. Marshall Durham4. Beatrice Ridgeway md. Earl SeeneyTwins 5 & 6 5. Albert N. Ridgeway md. Ruth Carter (Divorced)6. Greensbury Ridgeway md. Diane Carney------------------------------------------------------------------------------Georgianna Mosley parents
Levi Mosley md. #1. Sadie MaeMosleyb. Oct 1889 - d. Aug 1903 (1963) b. Mar 1883 - d. 1911 #2 Clara V. HansleyChildren:1. Sophie Mosley md. Sherwood Gould2. Albert P. Mosley md. Virginia GrisbeyTwins: 3.& 4. 3. Georgianna Mosley md. Raymond Ridgeway,Sr.4. Elisha Mosley md. #1. SchoolTeacher/ Dunning #2.Dorothy Miller1. Bessie Mosley - Clara Hansley daug. before she came to keep house forGrandpop Levi.-----------------------------------------------------------------------Sadie Mae Mosley Parents:
Elisha Mosley md. Georgianna Corneyb. Nov 1862 - d. (1893) b.Mar 1866 - d.
Children: 1. Sadie Mae Mosley md. LeviMosley2. Luther Mosley md.3. Arthur Mosley md. Belle 4. Sarah E. "Lizzie" Mosley md. JamesClifford Seeney5. Mamie Mosley md. Herbert W. Hughes (md. my mother 2nd.)6. William Maurice "Mike" Mosley md. Sadie White7. Annie Mosley md. Budd Coombs8. Edward Mosley md. MableStewart-----------------------------------------------------------
Georgianna Corney Parents:
William Corney md. Sarah "Sallie" Mosleyb. 1837 - d. Jan 12 1907 (Mar 1858) b.1841 - 1949
Children:
1. William Morris "Mike" Carney md. Sarah Mosley2. James H. Carney md. Mary Johnson3. Georgianna Corney md. Elisha Mosley4. Mary J. Corney
Dates taken from 1880 Census in De. They also had a Sarah Bell livingin the household.---------------------------------------------------Elisha Mosley Parents:
John M. Mosley md. Elizabeth Johnsonb. 1834/1840 - d. b. 1832/1842 -d. Dec. 20 1922 I put both dates because I have seen them under 2 different dates.
Children:
1. Elisha Mosley md. GeorgiannaCorney2. Lucinda Mosley md David W. Mosley,Sr.3. Nancy H. Mosley md. Joseph H. Kimmey4. Return Mosley md. Sophie Mosley5. Cordelia "Deli" Mosley md. Robert James Carneyor James Robert6. Lavinia "Vennie" Mosley md. Kenneth "Kenny" Morgan7. Albert Mosley md. Jane Jackson 8. Sally Sarah Mosley md. Mike Carney9. Mary Mosley md. Elisha Mosley
Now we are going for the other side of the Mosley family:Levi Mosley Parents:
Purnell P. Mosley md. Eliza JaneJohnsonb. May 1844 (1871) b. Mar 1848
Children:
1. John Mosley md Clara Johnson ( Clarawas my grandfather Charles H. Johnson sister, everyonecalled her Clara Snutch).2. Lydia Ann Mosley md. George R. Morris3. Sarah Liz Mosley md. ?4. Charlotte Mosleey md. ?5. Ellen Mosley md. Harry C. Mosley6. Rebecca Mosley md. Henry Durham7. Wingate B. Mosley md. Nancy Kimmey8. Emma Mosley md. ?9. Levi Mosley md. Sadie Mae Mosley10. Thomas Burton Mosley md. Mary Jane Driiggus11. Alfred P. Mosley Sr. md. Charlotte Pierce I hope this helps to clear up some of these Mosley's, They were Mosleymarrying Mosley's.Children were named after brothers, sisters, grandparents, parents etc. You really have to look at the dates because each generation has thesame name. I pulled my hair a many night. I think I still have some more names toget into the computer.I see I am missing a lot of the spouses names.
Jimmy's great uncle Herbert W. Hughes married my mother. So he thenbecame my step-father.Grand pop Levi's brother John Mosley wife was a sister to my mother'sfather Charles H.Johnson.I guess I really confused you and Lorraine both. Sweetsie
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 11:21 PMTo: 'Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)'Cc: 'Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'; 'Bordley, MayBelle & Sandy (belle25@)'; 'Heite, Ned (eheite@)'; 'Muncey, Harry (hmuncey@)'; 'Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)'; 'Ridgeway, Rose Marie (rbright4@)'Subject: RE: Genealogy Records
Hi, again.
Thanks very much for the extra data below. Yes, Misery does indeed love company, and I thank you for sharing the misery! :-}
Here are a couple of follow-up questions:
1. You mentioned that Sarah Mosely Carney (William's wife) was shown in the household (along with William) of her parents, Purnell & Rebecca Mosely in the 1860 census. Does this Purnell Mosely have any connection to the Purnell Mosely who was Rose/Sweetsie's husband's ancestor? I show Raymond/"Jimmy Flicker's" ancestor Purnell Mosely to be married to Elizabeth "Liza J" Johnson (grandparents of Georgianna Mosely Ridgeway, Raymond/"Jimmy Flicker's" mother), according to my notes from Rose/Sweetsie. [I also show another Purnell Mosely (d. 1918) to be the son of Andrew Mosely (1877-1944) and Angea Bell Coker (1882-1937)].
2. Regarding William & Sarah's family in the 1880 census, you said the listing for Sarah Bell shows "started to write dau but didn't." Do you think she was really a daughter?
3. Wait a minute-- Wow! I think I just realized something! When you mentioned the following...
"Wm Carney, the Father m a Sally Mosley, dau of Pernell and Rebecca Mosley Wm Morris (Mike) Carney the son of above, also m a Sarah Mosley, the dau of John and Elizabeth Johnson Mosley (this is what I meant about differentgenerations)"
...I was confused when first reading this, as I wondered how you were listing William Morris "Mike" Carney as being the son of William and Sally. In my FTM, I did have a son "Morris" listed under William, but I had this as being an entirely separate person than "Mike" Carney. As you know, until yesterday, I had no idea that William "Mike" Carney was actually William MORRIS "Mike" Carney, so that's why I had them separate. So, when I just now went to double-check what I had for "Mike's" parents, I see blank names, BUT-- I show that I have his "unknown" father as being a brother of Robert (b. 1815) and James (b. ca. 1824), just like you predicted! NOW, I need to see what reference I had for listing "Mike" as a nephew of Robert. This may help establish that this William was indeed Robert's brother, now that I know that William is Morris/Mike's father! How strange that I knew that William had a son named Morris, but never knew that here-to-fore fatherless Mike's real name was Morris!
See? Misery really DOES help the brain sometimes! :-)
(I also have a question/clarification for Betty & Ray Terry regarding this family, pertaining to a message they sent me in January, but I will detail this in a separate message). (Whew!)
4. In your message below, you also wrote: "About Sylvester Jack/Ridgway he could have separated from a first wife and then remarried." Sorry if I'm confused, but what did you mean by this? Was it in response to something I said/asked? I can't seem to find what I might have said/asked about Sylvester's wife/wives, other than about his & Sarah Mosely's child Thomas.... Are you clarifying about Thomas Ridgway "Carney" not necessarily being an out-of-wedlock child? Anyway, Sylvester's granddaughter told me that Sylvester was married three times, and had either 11 children by a combination of the three wives, or with one of the three wives. I will review my notes on this, and address it in another e-mail.
5. You said the younger Sally Mosely ("Mike" Carney's wife) was the daughter of John Mosely & Elizabeth Johnson. I previously didn't have their names listed in my records above Mike's Sally, but I showed Sally to have siblings: Cordelia, Nancy, Venie & Al. However, when I looked in my index, I DO have a John Mosely & Elizabeth Johnson in a separate place, as the parents of Elisha Mosely, again an ancestor of Rose/"Sweetsie's" husband Raymond/"Jimmy Flicker." Is this the same couple? (i.e. Is Elisha a brother of Cordelia, Nancy, Venie, Al and Sally?) I currently have three Elizabeth Johnson's in my records, but if the above two are the same person, then that would only leave two. I'm wondering if the other one is an error: I show Raymond/"Jimmy Flicker's" ancestor Levi Mosely to be the son of Purnell Mosely & Elizabeth "Liza J" Johnson (as mentioned in #1, above). But I also show that Levi's wife, Sadie Mae Mosely, to be the daughter of Elisha Mosely (& Georgianna Carney), and that Elisha was the son of John Mosely & Elizabeth Johnson. This sounds bizarre--that Levi, the SON of an Elizabeth Johnson, would marry a woman who was the GRANDDAUGHTER of an Elizabeth Johnson. Help!! :-)
OK, that's enough for now! I know all these questions have got to be killing you, but please accept my deepest gratitude for helping to straighten all this out. I promise all the questions will be done soon! (There can't be that much more to ask if I've already asked it!) :-) Seriously, you've been a tremendous help, and please let me know if I can help you with anything. I've really been concentrating on this lately, (at the expense of getting anything ELSE done in my life right now!), because it all had been sitting in my Inbox for far too long, and the sooner I get it straightened out, the sooner it will all be behind us, and logged into the computer correctly (finally!) Thanks again, John
----------From: LFREIDA15@[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 12:56 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Fwd: Genealogy Records
Hi John,
< snip > I thought you had forgotten about Wm Carney, since I didn't hear from you.
Worked on this for a long time, can't seem to find any concrete proof, and itgives me a big headache. Misery loves company so I thought I would pass iton. A lot of this comes from family information and notes that I had written frominterviews with our different elder family members. I didn't say I knew thatWm was the brother of Robert, husband of Phoebe. I'm just going by what Ihave been told on different occassions. I said, I think that in time we willfind that this is the Wm Carney that was the brother of said Robert Carney .Going by the census records that state he was b 1824, he couldn't be a son.If he was b 1836/37 going by the Pension records he could have been an olderson and out of the household before 1850????????
Your question: Where did I get Sarah's maiden name?1860 Census DeWm and Sarah Carney in household with Purnell and Rebecca Mosley, Sarahlisted as dau, no children (ages match)
1880 Census DeWilliam and Sarah listed w/ children Morris b 1860 son, James H b 1861 son,Georgianna b 1867 dau, Sarah Bell b 1878 , started to write dau but didn't
I looked for the 1900 census record today it states Wm Carney b 1824 age 66,(which can' t be right I didn't pick that up) listed as wd with dau Mary J b1880, AGE 19, single
Wm Carney b 1836/1837, taken from Pension records.
Wm Carney, the Father m a Sally Mosley, dau of Pernell and Rebecca MosleyWm Morris (Mike) Carney the son of above, also m a Sarah Mosley, the dau ofJohn and Elizabeth Johnson Mosley (this is what I meant about differentgenerations)
Your comment No 1 I think Ned answered that one about Wm Morris (Mike)Carney today.
About Sylvester Jack/Ridgway he could have separated from a first wife andthen remarried. He is listed as a son of Tillman and Sina Mosley Jack/Ridgwayin the 1860 Census DE age four. In 1880 census records De . I haveSylvester b 1856 m Annie ( no maiden name b 1861,and they had a dau Mattie b1879 . sOME OTHER NOTES that I have have --dau Mamie m George Miller, Mamie b1890 and d 1957. No other information except the Tombstone dates forSylvester are the ( same as yours)
Comment #2We have been told the same things about these two families of Wm Ridgway andTillman Jack/Ridgway. Have tried to use the census records to iron this out,because most of our notes from different family members have mixed these twofamilies up. real confusing.
#3 I agree, also the younger Sarah Mosleys Mother was Elizabeth Johnson,dau of Burton Johnson., who m John Mosley. There could also be a Johnsonconnection with Thomas and Mahala Ridgway Johnson?????????
Well John I hope I didn't give you a bigger headache, thanks for answeringmaybe some of the group will have some answers and relieve us of theseheadaches.
Lorraine
Hi, Betty & Ray, and Lynn.
Below is the whole kit & caboodle. Sorry to make it so long, but I figured this was the best (read: easiest) way to convey most of the story. Again, please use discretion with this info, and good advice for all of us would be to keep wary of this person.
Thanks! JCC
----------
From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Thursday, September 10, 1998 9:36 PMTo: 'Heite, Ned (eheite@)'Subject: J. Brent Thomas
Hi, Ned. Hope all is going OK.
I think Debbie has mentioned to you that she told me about your correspondence regarding this J. Brent Thomas character.
This is very strange....
I couldn't quite figure out what to make of him. He began by sending me an e-mail message, with a description of how he's connected, and mentioned that "we are in the process of tracing our family tree," and ended with a request to call him at one of two different telephone numbers.
I found this a little odd to start with, since it would seem to me to be a bit presumptive to expect someone else (who you've never heard of--let alone met) to call you back long distance. Every proper genealogist knows that you always include a self-addressed stamped envelope with a query! :-)
Anyway, I didn't call, but rather sent him an e-mail message in return, asking for a little clarification about his Ridgeway connection, who the "we" was that he was talking about, and how he had heard about me. I also asked if he had visited the Mitsawokett website (since I saw he had cc'd Betty & Ray on the original message to me), and what his goals were.
When he wrote back, he hardly answered any of my questions! He did briefly clarify his Ridgeway connection, said he had just visited Fort [sic] Branch Cemetery, and then asked me to "please fax any and all information you may have on the Ridgway family, and whatever collateral information you may have on the Durham, Mosely, Gould, Pierce, Bard, Sammons, Carney and Jackson families." Didn't he realize this would tie up a fax machine for about 2 years?? :-) He also again asked me to call him long distance.
I then didn't answer for about a day and a half, (was thinking of how next to respond), and he sent another message stating "I had hoped to here [sic] from you over the last day or so....Once again, would you reach out to me at...[phone numbers]." (!!!)
This was very strange, but I was still curious. So I sent him a message telling him I'd been busy, but would try to call the next day. When I did, I caught him on the road (turns out one of the numbers was a cellular phone), and he was on his way to Delaware. The conversation was briefly interrupted when he had to take a call on his "call-waiting" and when he came back, he said it had been you calling. His credibility went up a notch then. After all, he was acquainted with the famous Ned Heite! :-)
But the conversation was strange. He mentioned a couple of very odd-sounding things, but seemed to be very frank about them, so I replied candidly as well, and told him my stance on the whole race issue (politely, of course!) He sounded as if he agreed, but this didn't exactly sit with the subjects he had already discussed with me, so...?
He did mention something about Federal Recognition, and since you had just sent a message to the group on this same subject just about the day before, I assumed it was some project that you and he were working on together. Especially in light of his receiving a phone call from you while I was talking to him.
He ended with something about his going on a trip to South Africa, and would therefore be out of touch for a while.
All-in-all, a very unusual conversation, to say the least.
May I ask what your take on the whole thing was? Was he trying to get you involved in his "project?"
(I wonder if Betty ever responded to him....)
Anyway, I would appreciate any thoughts you'd like to share. I'm curious about this guy! Thanks! JCC
From: Ned Heite[SMTP:eheite@]Sent: Friday, September 11, 1998 12:32 AMTo: John C. CarterSubject: Re: J. Brent Thomas
At 21:36 9/10/1998, John C. Carter wrote:> Hi, Ned.> Hope all is going OK.> I think Debbie has mentioned to you that she told me about your>correspondence regarding this J. Brent Thomas character.>> This is very strange....
Really strange. Has he told you about the art gallery and casinocombination in KwaZulu Natal? He likes to meet in law school libraries,like Widener, Seton Hall, Rutgers, take your pick, but he says he is an art dealer, or an estate planner, or something.
This weekend he would either prefer to go to the opening of the Monet exhibit in Boston or look for an Indian site near Bridgeton.
> I couldn't quite figure out what to make of him. He began by sending me an e-mail message, with a description of how he's connected,>and mentioned that "we are in the process of tracing our family tree," and>ended with a request to call him at one of two different telephone>numbers.
One is the cell phone and the other is a land line. He says that he movedhis office to Bridgeton from Fifth Avenue in NY and bought out his partnersjust before he left Chicago. His daughter goes to Monmouth University. Sayshis mother was ostracized because she married a black man. Calls himselfthe darkest Ridgway.
>> I found this a little odd to start with, since it would seem to me>to be a bit presumptive to expect someone else (who you've never heard>of--let alone met) to call you back long distance. Every proper>genealogist knows that you always include a self-addressed stamped>envelope with a query! :-)
Presumption is the name of the game. He calls and makes appointments for people to travel, too. Dennis Coker (head of the Cheswold tribal corporation) and I went up to Wilmington to meet with him, and he went jogging in the midst of the meeting. Dennis is not impressed, either.
> Anyway, I didn't call, but rather sent him an e-mail message in>return, asking for a little clarification about his Ridgeway connection,>who the "we" was that he was talking about, and how he had heard about me.>I also asked if he had visited the Mitsawokett website (since I saw he>had cc'd Betty & Ray on the original message to me), and what his goals>were.>> When he wrote back, he hardly answered any of my questions! He>did briefly clarify his Ridgeway connection, said he had just visited Fort>[sic] Branch Cemetery, and then asked me to "please fax any and all>information you may have on the Ridgway family, and whatever collateral>information you may have on the Durham, Mosely, Gould, Pierce, Bard,>Sammons, Carney and Jackson families." Didn't he realize this would tie>up a fax machine for about 2 years?? :-) He also again asked me to call>him long distance.
I did not know he had been down here. He seems ignorant of the geography ofthe community. Very strange. I have stopped returning calls. Too expensive.He rambles.
> I then didn't answer for about a day and a half, (was thinking of>how next to respond), and he sent another message stating "I had hoped to>here [sic] from you over the last day or so....Once again, would you reach>out to me at...[phone numbers]." (!!!)>> This was very strange, but I was still curious. So I sent him a>message telling him I'd been busy, but would try to call the next day.>When I did, I caught him on the road (turns out one of the numbers was a>cellular phone), and he was on his way to Delaware. The conversation was>briefly interrupted when he had to take a call on his "call-waiting" and>when he came back, he said it had been you calling.> His credibility went up a notch then. After all, he was>acquainted with the famous Ned Heite! :-)
Yes, that was the day I met him at Widener. He mentioned he was on the other phone with you. He has several cell phones. He pulled a similar stunt on me, getting me in a four way conference call with Herb Kraft. I naturally assumed that Herb, being the guru of Lenape studies, addedcertain patina to his pretentions.
>> But the conversation was strange. He mentioned a couple of very>odd-sounding things, but seemed to be very frank about them, so I replied>candidly as well, and told him my stance on the whole race issue>(politely, of course!) He sounded as if he agreed, but this didn't>exactly sit with the subjects he had already discussed with me, so...?>
His father was black, and apparently there were problems with the familythat have never been resolved.
> He did mention something about Federal Recognition, and since you>had just sent a message to the group on this same subject just about the>day before, I assumed it was some project that you and he were working on>together. Especially in light of his receiving a phone call from you>while I was talking to him.
I had mentioned the federal recognition more to get some feedback thananything else. He had called me. Apparently the Bridgeton group had droppedits application for federal recognition, and he wants to get into thecasino business. He therefore is accusing the Bridgeton administration ofincompetence, and wants to stage a coup. He is talking about renting theBridgeton high school auditorium some Sunday late this month to rally theIndians to split the tribe and make himself chief of the split.
Dennis has been dodging the federal recognition issue just because of thecasino taint. You know that bunch of Methodists and Adventists. They don'teven go to fire house bingo games. I was kidding Dennis about how there wasonly one Catholic family in the group (his immediate Cokers, in fact) andthat wasn't quite enough for a bingo game. I don't think Brent quite gotthe point.
Dennis has bowed out of the project. For some time, the Cheswoldcorporation has been accused of being interested in casinos, and franklythey want nothing to do with it. That is a big part of why they have notgone for federal recognition. As I said in my post you mentioned, theyprobably could make a good case.
My position remains precisely as it was. I would dearly love to get thefunding to do the book that would probably help propel the recognitionthing. I think Cheswold can get recognized. But if they don't wantrecognition, then the book will still be written somehow. Brent mentionedgrants from the federal government to support recognition research but thatis not my cup of tea.
> He ended with something about his going on a trip to South Africa,>and would therefore be out of touch for a while.
Thank God for small favors.
> All-in-all, a very unusual conversation, to say the least.>> May I ask what your take on the whole thing was? Was he trying to>get you involved in his "project?"
I think he wants to recruit me to be his pet historian. He seems to thinkthat I can get the recognition thing done in day.
> (I wonder if Betty ever responded to him....)>> Anyway, I would appreciate any thoughts you'd like to share. I'm>curious about this guy!> Thanks!> JCC
Why don't you forward this to Debbie? I answered her the other day, butthis is a bit longer than my answer to her.
I am doing a workshop for the Mormons and the Cumberland County HistoricalSociety in Vineland on Indian lineages. Rose Ridgeway is setting it up.Brent had originally proposed to have his rally that afternoon, and askedme to talk. I had agreed, because I was going to be there anyway. I am verythankful that the date has changed. I think I really need to go to OldTimers Day in Sharptown, Maryland, that day.
Ned Heite, Camden, DE
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Saturday, September 12, 1998 5:09 PMTo: 'Ned Heite'Cc: 'Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'Subject: RE: J. Brent Thomas
Hi, Ned.
< snip >
As for J. Brent Thomas, now that I've read your response, I find the whole situation even more weird. Because I had assumed that he was acting on someone's behalf. But from what you say, it sounds like even the Indian groups are experiencing friction with him. I was being careful, because I wasn't sure who he might be associated with.
But I'll be frank with you: A couple of the subjects he mentioned sounded distinctly controversial, especially in one case.
I've already told you that he was speaking of obtaining Federal recognition (for the Bridgeton/Cheswold groups). But he also spoke of the Oklahoma Lenapes being involved somehow with the Wildwood Indian group, and that they were attempting to get some type of casino/gaming going, and he spoke of a "we" who were trying to intervene. I can't remember his exact words, but at the time it gave me the IMPRESSION that he was acting on the Bridgeton group's behalf, and was attempting to get "a piece of the pie" from the Wildwood group for "allowing" or recognizing the Wildwood group's association with the Oklahoma Lenapes on the subject of gaming. Obviously, from what you've told me of his "attempted coup" with the Bridgeton group, this must not have been the case.
The other, very disturbing, thing he told me was...(and he asked me to keep this to myself, so by telling you, I ask you to use discretion in how or who you repeat it to)...that "we" (his mysterious "we" again) were planning to submit some type of legal action to have the racial records of the past changed. I have no clear idea of what he meant by this, and although I found the notion disturbing, I wasn't really worried by it. (AS IF because of some ridiculous law someone's going to go and change EVERY notation of "moor," "colored," "negro," "black," "mulatto," etc to "Indian" in EVERY census record, EVERY tax record, EVERY vital statistic, EVERY land record, EVERY probate record, etc, that was EVER recorded for any descendant of the mixed bloods!) Again, I wrongly assumed he was acting in conjuction with the Bridgeton group and/or the Cheswold group.
This was when I told him that whereas I have no problem with people wanting to recognize and pass on their Indian heritage, I do have a problem with those who latch onto it solely for the purpose of hiding or ignoring any "other" (black) color. And he then surprised me by agreeing with me, and telling me (like he told you) about his mother being ostracized because of marrying a black man. But I assumed that he (Brent) was white, because he did not tell me any comment like he told you about being "the darkest Ridgway." I had assumed that when he said his mother married a black man, that he meant this to be his STEP-father, not his father.
I see now that I assumed a LOT from my conversation with him that was false or at least a wrong angle. But the whole thing was so bizarre that I couldn't really put my finger on who he was or what his true intentions were.
He spoke of his visit to Fork Branch as being "very moving, spiritually," but it sounded false to me, like he all-of-a-sudden wanted to be recognized as a full-blooded Indian.
Anyway, thanks for sharing your comments with me, and it will be very interesting to see what else comes forth from this character!
Take care, JCC
----------From: Ned Heite[SMTP:eheite@]Sent: Saturday, September 12, 1998 6:27 PMTo: John C. CarterCc: 'Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'Subject: RE: J. Brent Thomas
I am trying to distance myself from him, right now. As far as I amconcerned, my only speaking engagement in New Jersey is the Mormon churchin Vineland with the folks from the Indian center and the county historicalsociety.
>But from what you say, it sounds like even the Indian groups are>experiencing friction with him. I was being careful, because I wasn't>sure who he might be associated with.
Call me old fashioned, but I think that organization leaderships functionjust as the membership wants them to. He was talking about formingsomething that would supersede the existing operation, and he didn't wantto hear anything about working from within. I think this is where DennisCoker backed off.
> I've already told you that he was speaking of obtaining Federal>recognition (for the Bridgeton/Cheswold groups). But he also spoke of the>Oklahoma Lenapes being involved somehow with the Wildwood Indian group,>and that they were attempting to get some type of casino/gaming going, and>he spoke of a "we" who were trying to intervene.
Yes, the bottom line is casinos. He is involved, or so he says, with an artgallery in KwaZulu-Natal that is funded by a casino it owns. The mayor ofWildwood wanted to give a parking lot to some Oklahoma Lenape as their"reservation" so they could start a casino. Brent wants a piece of this,and to do that, he must have a federally recognized tribe with a betterclaim than the Oklahoma bunch.
So he wants to get Federal recognition. The leaderships in Cheswold andBridgeton are not really heated up about federal recognition, and thesubject is really dormant. He wanted me to do the background, and I toldhim I would really love to write the book, but it would take a few years.That did not satisfy him.
>that "we" (his mysterious "we" again) were planning to submit some type of>legal action to have the racial records of the past changed.
Yes he thinks he has found some legal authority. It is really scary. Itried to explain my research into race terminology but it went past him.
> This was when I told him that whereas I have no problem with>people wanting to recognize and pass on their Indian heritage, I do have a>problem with those who latch onto it solely for the purpose of hiding or>ignoring any "other" (black) color.
Yep. He doesn't want to deal with the complexities and terminologies. Itold him about old Chief Custalo and the way they dealt with thoseadmixture issues. It did not impress him. The old chief said, yes, back incolonial times, fugitives of all races took refuge on reservations andprobably married. So what? Next subject. The old chief was no scholar buthe had a really great attitude.
> He spoke of his visit to Fork Branch as being "very moving,>spiritually," but it sounded false to me, like he all-of-a-sudden wanted>to be recognized as a full-blooded Indian.
Same here.
Ned Heite, Camden, DE
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Friday, September 18, 1998 11:04 PMTo: 'Heite, Ned (eheite@)'Cc: 'Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'Subject: An anonymous mysteryImportance: High
Hello, Ned. Just got off the phone, telling Debbie the news.
Today I received an anonymous envelope in the mail, containing nothing but two photocopied pages from the "Bridgeton Evening News," August 19, 1989 [sic--nine years ago], with the headline:
"Foundation Founder is Jailed"
The headline is followed by a photograph of James Brent Thomas.
[Apparently, word has gotten around about my inquiring about this person, and someone dropped this tidbit in the mail to me. I didn't recognize the handwriting on the envelope].
The article reads as follows (by Stephen LaRue, staff writer):
James Brent Thomas of Bridgeton has raised scholarship money to help area students from poor families defray college expenses. He has solicited funds from area businesses to help young athletes meet the expenses of competing in the Junior Olympics. Now, James Brent Thomas, founder of the Thomas Foundation, is in jail. County sheriff's officers arrested him earlier this week at his parents' home in Fairfield Township on a fugitive's warrant, said Capt. Edward Webster. Thomas, 30, is in Cumberland County Jail waiting for his extradition to Harris County, Texas, where he is wanted for violating probation following convictions there of auto theft and theft, Webster said. Webster said the Harris County Sheriff's Department probably found out Thomas was in Bridgeton when they ran a check on his name through the National Crime Information Center. "They probably did the same thing we do," Webster said. "Once in a while they check NCIC and see if someone they're looking for has been arrested some place else." Thomas' name popped up on the computer printout because he was arrested in Bridgeton Feb. 9 on arson, theft, fraud and conpiracy charges, Webster said. Bridgeton police arrested Thomas and two others in connection with the torching of a limousine earlier that month. An investigation revealed Thomas leased the limo from a Philadelphia firm to make a profit by sub-leasing it, police said. When he couldn't meet monthly payments of $10,000, the company moved to repossess the vehicle, authorities said. Thomas allegedly conspired with two others to report the limo stolen, then sell it to a "chop shop" in Camden, where it would be disassembled and the parts resold below market value. The vehicle was reported stolen from the parking lot of a Vineland diner, but the trio apparently decided it was easier to burn it than take it to a chop shop, police said. No indictment has been handed up in the case, which is still an open complaint in the Cumberland County prosecutor's office, according to a court record. Thomas did not resist Monday, when Detectives Brian Wentz and Patricia Mason of the county sheriff's department arrested him on the fugutive's warrant, authorities said. Webster said Thomas is self-employed as financial consultant for Capital Expansion Inc., of which the Thomas Foundation apparently is an offshoot. Webster said he knows nothing about either organization. Thomas, whose residence is listed as Finlaw Avenue, Bridgeton, has ed that my only interest wasadvancing my research and keeping my robust relationship with a group Iconsider my friends. I could see a pane of glass fall over his face.
The upshot was that Dennis apparently doesn't want to deal with him. Ihaven't asked Dennis, and I won't, but Brent told me that Dennis had pulledout.
Brent expresses a certain contempt for people who are interested in nothingbut culture and family and connections and all that. Unfortunately forBrent, that just about sums up the folks in Cheswold in general and theCokers in particular.
When he started talking about casinos, I pointed out that the Cheswoldgroup didn't even patronize the fire company Bingo, and that most of themwere Methodist and Adventist country folks. I also pointed out that thechurches and fire companies are suffering from the slots at Dover Downs,which have siphoned off much of their Bingo trade.______________________________________________
[Forwarded my Aunt Evelyn's message to Ned]:
At 07:02 AM 9/16/1998, John C. Carter wrote:> For your info.> (I had asked my Aunt Evelyn--who lives in the Bridgeton area--what>she might know about Brent Thomas).> (The "Lorraine" she mentions is Lorraine Johnson Gregg of our>e-mail group).> (Regarding the "different set of Ridgways," I will explain to>Evelyn the connection. As both of you know, those not versed in the>connections known to "us genealogists" often think certain family branches>are "another set," when in actuality they are just a more-distant branch>of the same family).> JCC>>------------------------------------------------------->[From my Aunt Evelyn]:
>Hi,>>< snip >>>Lorraine wrote me a note...she knows Brent...especially when he was young. He>is the grandson of Felix Ridgway. (Will have to tell me the>connection...always considered a different set of Ridgways) Know many of>them...good friend Liz is married to one. Brent has just arrived back in the>area...been traveling to Africa dealing in Black Art. Since Bingo was>mentioned in the newsletter....he showed up to the indian center. Has not>applied for membership.>>Well, take care.....talk to you soon.........Evelyn
-----------------------------
John's note: In between this time, I had spoke to my Aunt Evelyn on the phone, and had asked her whether she had heard of Brent, and if she could inquire further about him.Next (above) is her response. JCC
Subj: RE: Mosely Madness!Date: 98-09-26 09:14:50 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Betty & Ray. I am referring to the e-mail from Rose/Sweetsie, that I had clicked on "reply" to, when drafting my message. Rose/Sweetsie's information should have shown just below my message. Were you not able to see it? Thanks. JCC P.S. It was question #12, (not #2) that I am curious as to your response. (Not that you shouldn't be concerned with the other ones, mind you, but I was just wondering if you had mis-read my little note that I had interjected into the message). I would be happy to receive your input on any of the questions/topics. Thanks!
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Saturday, September 26, 1998 12:49 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Mosely Madness!
In a message dated 98-09-25 23:42:26 EDT, you write:
>
Which document are you referring to?
B&R
Subj: RE: Re Carney BibleDate: 98-09-26 16:15:04 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)')
Hi, Lorraine. Well, the questions are starting to wind down, slowly.....
Regarding #3(a) below:
You wrote that Lawrence Wm. Carney, Jr was b. 04 Apr 1934, but info that Preston sent me said 04 Apr 1935. Also, you wrote that he died 23 Nov 1997, but Preston has d. 10 Aug 1992. Preston & Lorraine: Can you both please double-check your data? Thanks.
Regarding #4: In the household of Tilghman/Tillman Jack/Ridg(e)way and Sina Mosely, you said the 1860 census lists the two youngest children as age 7/12 and 5/12. How could there be a 7-month-old child and a 5-month-old child in the same family? I think they did this just to make our heads dizzy 140 years later!
Thanks again! John P.S. Betty & Ray: I'll be sending you a message regarding the William Carney(s) soon!
----------From: LFREIDA15@[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 9:02 PMTo: spiff@Cc: AquaBetty@; psam@; rbright4@Subject: Re Carney Bible
Me again,
Answers to your e-mail of 98-09-21 - pg 1 Question
#1 Yes, Immanuel Union, Edward and his wife Bertha Mae Driggus are buriedthere. Bertha Mae Driggus, was the dau of Robert and Caroline Miller Driggus
Question #2 Doris Victoria Mosley m their son Lawrence W. Carney, I do have theinformation that was in the family Bible of Edward and Bertha Mae DriggusCarney, Doris gave it to me a few years back, at that time her sister-in-lawThelma Morgan Carney had the Bible, now Doris tells me Thelma's son CharlesCarney has it now.
Edward Carney b Jan 25, 1883 d Nov 30, 1949, his wife Bertha Mae b May 12,1887 d July 3, 1943, both buried at Immanuel/Manship, DETheir Children:1 Edward C Carney b Sept 27, 1906, d July 12, 1970 m Thelma Morgan b 1915, dOct 7, 1989 , both buried at the Fordville Cemetary near Bridgeton, theywere parents of Charles Carney and Francis Carney Smith 2 Carolyn Mae Carney b Jan 30, 1908 and d Aug 3, 1928 ( I don't know where sheis buried)
3 Lawrence Wm Carney B July 18, 1912, d Jan 5, 1964 buried at ManshipCemetary in DE, m Doris Victoria Mosley b June 27 1915,living, they were m Oct20, 1934, Doris is the dau of Clifton and Bertha Edna Sammons Carney. Lawrenceand Doris were parents of: (a) Lawrence Wm Carney Jr. b april 4, 1934, d Nov 23, 1997, b at theManship Cemetary in De, he was m to Ada DeVaugham, parents of Carolyn R Carneyno other info.
(b) Barbara Lee Carney b Nov 6, 1936 d March 17, 1990, Barbara m Lewis Johnson April 11, 1959 in Media PA. I don't know where she is buried.
#4 Dawson Harrison Carney b May 22 1916, d Aug 22, 1979 , he is buried atthe Fernwood Cemetary, Hopewell Twp, Bridgeton, NJ, he m Della Sammons living.They were parents of : (a) Lisa May CarneyNote Della Sammons is Preston's Aunt
#5 Hazel Carney b Jan 31, 1921 d Dec 30, 1921 ( don't know where she isburied)
Question #3
Joseph Carney that m Mary Dean, was the son Sarah Corney, dau of Robert andPhobe, on his death certificate # 275 KC DE, his father was listed asunknown, According to my Mother, he was the only one w/the last name ofCarney, his Brothers and Sisters were Durhams . He was b April 16, 1854 inDe, d Jan 14, 1935 in Cheswold, De. Joseph and Mary Dean Carney were theowners of the Carney Bible that I got the information out of and sent you/with the b and d dates of Robert Carney husband of Phoebe , also containedJohn Coker, Frankford Mosley, Elmira Dean and other death dates.
Question #4
Starting w/ 2 par However------Yes ,John the children of Tillman Jack/Ridgway and Sina Mosley,you havelisted are on the 1850 Census De.the 1860 Census De, Dover Hundred M653 Roll 95 (from Harry A Muncey)lists Tillman Jack age 25, Sina age 30 (they're both getting younger) withchildren Elizabeth age 18, Matilida, age 14, Francis (Male) age 12, Letty(Letishia), age 8 , Sylvester age 4, Sina age 7/12, and Eliza Months age5/12.There is another Census record that has John and Greensberry on it , like yousay(but it has temporarily escaped me) w/parents Tillman and Sina.
Last paragraph of #4Yes and you will find both Letishia Johnson and Letishia Jack/Ridgeway bothcalled Lettie on records sometimes.
Question #5Could be, I only have a copy of census record, looks like Merry, maybe it'sLillie. I still can't make up my mind. Probably should get a clearer copy. MaybePreston will check this for you.
Lorraine
Subj: RE: the William CarneysDate: 98-09-27 22:07:12 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Betty & Ray.
Thought I'd better finish up with this William Carney subject. I had mentioned a couple of times in my messages to Lorraine that I would be sending you a message regarding William. Well, that was mainly because in the course of my going back through old data in order to reply to Lorraine's messages, I'd come across your message from 1/08/98, with the Carney.doc attachment, and, in looking back in the course of responding to Lorraine, I thought I should make a couple of comments. Well, I now just realized that I'd actually already made virtually the same comments to you back in my 1/08/98 reply to your message.
Namely:
That one of the William Carneys in your document in the 1870 census that you speculate as posssibly being the William Carney who ended up marrying Catherine Morgan Dean, was actually a different William Carney (the Civil War veteran). But this was already mentioned, as you can see below.
And also that in regard to your comment, "There is a William Carney at Fork Branch, Co F 32 USCI, which may be the Civil War vet you have found in the pension files"...that this indeed WAS the same Civil War vet, whose pension records I found as a direct result of visiting the stone and copying the information off of it. (Also mentioned in my 1/08 message).
In summation:
After banging my head around through all this stuff during the last week, in trying to get all the William Carney(s) data straightened out, I think the major goals that remain are:
1. Gather more data on the William who m. Catherine Morgan Dean. It would seem to be the William b. ca. 1825 (per the 1870 census record you listed). Have you encountered anything else to substantiate this?
2. Gather evidence to establish that the William who was the Civil War vet (b. ca. 1836) was a brother of Robert Carney (b. 1815) who m. Phebe. This would seem to be the case, based on what Lorraine has heard, as well as the story that Wm. Morris "Mike" Carney (son of the Civil War vet William) was a first cousin of James "J.P." Carney by being a nephew of Robert (J.P.'s father).
OK, that's all for now. Just wanted to let you know that I hadn't forgotten to follow-up with the twice-promised William Carney message. It's just that I realized that I'd already made the comments to you, earlier this year.
Thanks! JCC
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Thursday, January 08, 1998 10:00 PMTo: 'AquaBetty'Subject: RE: William Carney
Hi, Betty & Ray. Thanks for the info.
Yes, I was aware of the stone at Fork Branch. That is actually how I became aware of that (Civil War vet) William in the first place. I found the stone, ordered the records, and then figured out his connection to the family. This William turned out to be the great-great-grandfather of Raymond "Flicker" Ridgeway Jr, husband of Rose Marie "Sweetsie" Munson Ridgeway of the Bridgeton Indian center.
It seems safe to assume, from the info you compiled, the following:
1. Under your note from the 1870 census, you have "may be Catherine Morgan Dean's 2nd husband's family" ascribed to the William Carney aged 37 and married to Sarah. I don't think this is the case, since I think this is the William who was the Civil War vet. The names of the children James H. and Georgianna match up. (The middle initial "H" also matches up with another page in the Civil War records, which I omitted in my message last night). Also, since the Civil War vet William stated in 1898 that his wife was deceased, and we know Catherine was still living, and had been married since 1875. This is good info, as it gives me the name Sarah to make note of.
2. It then would seem to indicate that the William aged 45 in the 1870 census and married to Melvina would most likely be Catherine's future 2nd husband. It is curious about Nehemiah Durham living with this family in 1870. At first I wondered if he was a nephew, with perhaps a mother named Carney, but then realized his mother is apparently the Mahala Songo that Debbie was recently swinging from the chandelier about. Perhaps he was a younger brother of Melvina, or somehow else related to Melvina by his father's side. Of course, all this is all mere conjecture. Did the 1870 census list a relationship?
Thanks again! JCC
P.S. In regard to the stones at Fork Branch, someone told me that "long ago" there used to be a "whole row" of Civil War veteran tombstones, and on holidays you would see all the flags next to each stone. Now, the only one left in that row seems to be William's, and it's virtually unreadable. I had also heard about the ones "tossed off into the woods." What a shame....
----------From: AquaBetty[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Thursday, January 08, 1998 1:48 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: William Carney
John,
We've not attempted to follow up on William A. Carney.
The attached is data in our files where his name is mentioned. Nothing new.
I will attach descendancy charts of 2 Carneys, b 1814 and b 1824, which werein the GEDCOM file you sent to us, hoping it would be helpful to you to seethem in this form. If you don't need this type of information from yourfiles, please tell us.
B&R
>
Subj: Carney Chaos!Date: 98-09-30 21:59:27 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)')
Hi, Lorraine.
As of this message, I'm FINALLY caught up with the long-awaited e-mail subjects I never completed! (That is, other than the clarifying follow-up's we've been having).
(I still plan to draft a message on the subject of Sylvester Ridgeway).
Pasted below this message are four different Carney messages of yours from April. I tried to condense them, so I could list questions for all of them at once, since they generally deal with the same family, for the most part.
I had typed a completely different response a couple of days ago, but it was absolutely crazy, and I ended up deleting it and starting over. (Which is lucky-- THAT message was really messed up. I had the John Carneys all confused, and even though I'm not positive I've straightened them out, I think they're in better shape than they used to be.
Here's what I now have on the John Carneys:
John A. (Kinsey) Carney: --Son of Shary (Shadrach) Carney & Mary Jane Carty / Carter. --Born 14 Oct 1851, according to the Carty / Wyatt Bible. --Born 1854 / Oct 1854, according to the 1880 / 1900 census data in your 29 Apr 1998 message. --Died 16 Mar 1939, according to plot in Evergreen Cemetery (aka Gouldtown Cemetery), NJ, per your 27 Apr 1998 message. --Married (in 1875) Wilhemina A. Durham, who was b. Apr 1858 & d. 14 May 1900. (Was she a dau. of Hewitt & Angelica Songo Durham???) --Siblings: Sarah (b. ca. 1851), William (b. ca. 1855), Mary Elizabeth (b. ca. 1858), Maryetta J (b. ca. 1866), Louisa (b. ca. 1868), & Shadrach (b. 1870). (All these sibling b.dates I got from Preston, except Shadrach's which is from his tombstone).
Next:
John Carney: --Son of James (James Martin?) Carney (b. ca. 1824) & Sally Songo (b. ca. 1827). --Born ca. 1861 --Died: unknown. --Married Sallie Sammons --Siblings: Sarah (b. ca. 1836), Robert (b. ca. 1843), Elizabeth (b. ca. 1845), Thomas (b. ?) & Caroline (b. ca. 1858). --Note: Lorraine, I think something's messed up here. According to my source notes, I obtained all the dates on these siblings (and the parents above) from you when I saw you at Evelyn's in Sep 1996. ("from 1850 census, Kent Co, DE, family #174, household of Robert Kearney"). However, these dates would mean that James/Martin & Sally started having children when they were only 12 & 9 years old. (!!!) Can you please re-examine this record? Thanks!
Next:
John "Jack" Carney: --Son of William Alfred Carney (b. ca. 1877) & Sara Bell "Sadie" Sammons (b. Jan 1889). --Born: unknown. --Died: unknown. --Married: Elizabeth Ridgeway (dau. of who???) --Siblings: Nellie (b. 1908), Mary (b. 1911), Walter (b. 1918) & Sadie (b. ?).
This is all the John Carneys I have (and all I HOPE to have!) (Just kidding). :-)
-----------
A few other questions:
Regarding your message of 27 Apr 1998:
Who was the Clara Carney who m. William Sammons, and had a one-week-old baby die on 3/07/1894? Was she another daughter of John? And who were the parents of the William Sammons she married?
And likewise, who was Betty White, (wife of Jacques White)?
----------
Regarding your message of 29 Apr 1998:
Thanks for the lists of children of John & Wilhemina. However, my notes (from Preston??) also have a son named Arthur (no b.date known). Is this correct that you know of?
The Samuel Loatman that Maggie Carney married--do you know his parents? Or how he connects to the other (Samuel) Loatmans?
The Forrest Mosely that married Maggie & Samuel's daughter Thelma Loatman--is this the same Forrest Mosely who was son of David Mosely & Mary Ridgeway?
When you say "#1 Catherine Mosley is Anna's daughter" do you mean she was a full-sister to the others, and therefore maiden name Gould? Or was her own maiden name Mosley from having a different father than the others?
----------
Whew! That looks like it, for this message!
* sigh *
Thanks again for all your help!!!! John
----------From: LFREIDA 15[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 9:38 AMTo: psam@Cc: spiff@Subject: JOHN A CARNEY INFO
Hi Preston:
Sending along info from some census sheets in my Carney folders.
1880 DE KC Kenton 100 #72Carney John, age 26 farmer all b in De Williamina, age 22 wife Rosella , age 4 dau Wm Alfred, age 3 son James Spencer , age 2 son Mahala 1/12 Apr dau
1900 KC DE Kenton 100 Roll 153, T623
Carrney John A head, b Oct 1854 age 45 m 24yrs all b De Wilmenia wife, b Apr 1858 age 42 "" M of 14children 7 living Sally dau b Oct 1884 age 15 Mary dau b Dec 1888 age 11 Annie dau b Jan 1892 age 8 Robert son b Dec 1897 age 2 Maggie dau b Sept 1899 age 8/12
1910 NJ Salem County, Lower Alloway #187
Carney John A head age 54 wd Anna dau age 18 Robert son age 13 Magaret dau age 11 all b DE----------------------Robert Carney b Dec 25 1897 in De , d July 13 1950 in Deepwater, Salem,NJ m Anna Sarah Pettit b Feb 28, 1906, still living at the time of thisinformation.Robert Carney and Sarah Pettit were m March 15, 1932 in Carney's Point, NJ ,also Salem County . They had one dau that I know of Annabelle F Carney,she m Jay D Tuthill June 12, 1953.-----------------------------Margaret (Maggie) Carney , b sept 1899 in DE and D July 22 1986, age 87 inNJm Samuel Loatman , their children:
Thelma Loatman m Forrest Mosley (Thelma d Nov 13 1982 age 58) Anna Loatman m Carlton Coker, livingBeatrice Loatman m Elmer Munson , livingIsabelle Loatman m Ralph Durham, livingJames Loatman m Alice Gant , both deceased (James d Sept 7 1991 age 68)John Henry (Jack) Loatman m Margaret Mosley (Jack deceased Have to lookupdate)Betty Loatman m Albert Durham, living
Anna Loatman Coker, and Betty Loatman Durham live in DE, the rest live herenear Bridgeton, NJ.---------------------
Anna Carney b Jan 1892 , d May 15 1930 m Wilbur Gouldtheir children:
#1 Catherine Mosley is (Anna's dau ) Catherine m Roosevelt Mosley Isabelle Gould m Issac Green, Isabelle decWilbur Gould Jr m Marion PernellJesse Johnson Gould m Marie Durham Jesse (Dubie) decMargaret Gould m Calvin (Blake) Pierce -----------------------
Information from personal knowledge, obituaries, funeral service programs etc,most of these people are members of the Nanticoke-Lenape Indian Center and weall know each other , we are scattered around Bridgeton and the surroundingrural areas. Most of us here are related by blood or marriage.
At the present time I don't know how this Carney family ties in to my Mother'sfamily except by some marriages. Her sister Jennie Carney 2 wife of WilburGould, and Dawson Carney , first cousin of my Mother m to Della Sammons.
I have to quit now, but will forward Carney information that I have in mypaper files that I think may be useful to you.
Lorraine
----------From: LFREIDA 15[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Monday, April 27, 1998 6:49 PMTo: psam@Cc: spiff@Subject: Re: Carney Info
Hi Preston,
First I want to thank you for probates.
I have come across some records that might be helpful to you , while tryingto get this information out of folders and in the computer, right now I'mworking on the Carney line.
City Hall Annex , Bridgeton NJ Vital Statistics, a few years back you couldgo in there and look up records yourself. Now you can't because they say therecords are in such bad shape. I think they will do a lookup but that's it.They were still in books.
William Carney. age 52 D Nov 19, 1928 b in De parents John A Carney andWilemina A Durham pg 124.------------------------------------------Evergreen Cemetary, also called the Gouldtown Cemetary
Lot 100 John A Carney d March 16 1939 Anna E Carney Gould d May 15, 1930 (dau of John A Carney) Wilburt Gould d Oct 13, 1961 husband of Anna E Carney Jennie Carney Gould d April 18, 1952, age 47, 2 wife of WilburGould Jennie Carney was a sister to my Mother Anna CarneyJohnson.
There has always been a question of whether John Carney is John A or John Kfrom these records it definitely is an A . ( He was called John Kinsey)???????--------------------------------------------Kent C M returns Vol 90 p 102Carney John and Willmina Durham 1875, minister C.W. Huntington
KC Deaths , Cheswold
Sammons d 3/7/1894age 1 wk, sex M, Parents Wm and Clara Ref 1894 folder #8C Sallie Carney , age 18 d Nov 8 1902 parents John and Wilminia, folder #2A Carney Williminia folder #2A d May 14, 1900, age 47, place Dover De--------------------------KC M vol 90 pg 148, vol 71 pg 128Clara Carney and William Sammons m Jan 20 1888, JV Smith , minister--------------
obit of Betty White, retired Nurse, of Harrisburg, b DE , d July 14, 1977,age 66, predeceased by her husband Jacques White, you have the rest
If I come across more that might be useful to you , while I'm franticallytrying to get these records and information out of folders, notebooks, loosepapers, etc, on this computer. I'll forward.
Lorraine
----------From: LFREIDA 15[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Sunday, April 12, 1998 1:39 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: OOPS! RE: Carney/Sammons
Hi John
Carney Question
I'm the one that suggested that James Carney who m Sallie Songo , could havebeen James Martin Or Martin James because of what his son John told DrWeslager, that Martin Carney was his father and his Mother was a Songo, Ihave the records of Caroline Carney who M Daniel Durham, (my gg grandparentson my father's side,) and the record states James Carney and Sally Songo/Sanger are her parents. Carolyn's brother John Carney b 1861 m SallieSammons, and they had a dau Etta who m a Miller. ( There are quite a fewof John Carney's) Shary Carney did have a brother John , this John A or JohnK Carney m Willemina Durham , and they did not have a sister Caroline that Iknow of' , or if they did we have never found a sister Caroline on the censusrecords, or from family information.
John check for my e-mail of Jan 09, 1998, and Jan 16 1998, that may help clearup some of your questions. I know what you mean about getting behind withthis e-mail.
Lorraine
----------From: LFREIDA 15[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Friday, January 16, 1998 2:12 AMTo: John C. CarterSubject: Genealogy Records
Hi John
< snip >
The other records on JosephCarney, Frank Durham, Carolyn Carney Durham, Wm Carney, James Carney, SallieSongo and a few others you had asked me about when you were at Evelyn"s . Inoticed that they were not in the right places so I thought I would share soyou could move on. I think James Carney who m Sarah (Sallie) Songo/Sanger wasProbably a brother . to Robert Carney?Kearney because the first time Ilocated James and family they were living w/Robert and Phebe in 1850 Census,their ages about ten years different, I put Kearney because that is thename I first located them under in Kent County,De. About the question ofShadrach Carney and how he fits in I do not know, no one else seems to knoweither. I also noticed that Jan had put Joseph under Clayton [Durham], Clayton wasliving in the household w/Joseph Carney and it stated that Clayton Durham wasson in law or something to which was wrong .(Census Record.) Clayton wasactually Joseph's Uncle by m.
< snip >
Lorraine
Subj: Re: Update on JBTDate: 98-10-12 23:10:27 EDTFrom: eheite@ (Ned Heite)To: spiff@ (John C. Carter)CC: 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)')
At 08:27 PM 10/12/1998, John C. Carter wrote:> Hello.> Update on James Brent Thomas:>> My aunt in the Bridgeton area informs me that the NJ tribe board>members have had a registered letter delivered to Mr. Thomas (for which>they've already received confirmation of delivery), officially requesting>that he keep his distance, and the next step is a court order (if it>hasn't already come to that).>> JCC
Another letter, to the same effect, was sent to interested parties who hadbeen approached by Thomas. I got one. Let's hope this business has settleddown, but I fear it won't.
Ned Heite, Camden, DE
Date: Saturday, October 03, 1998 3:45 PMSubject: A story I just read that I thought you would enjoy
>Many, many years ago, a lady in a faded gingham dress and her husband,dressed>in a homespun, threadbare suit, stepped off the train in Boston and Madetheir>way across the Charles River to Cambridge. They walked to the Harvard>University Campus and, without an appointment into the president's outer>office.>>The secretary thought immediately that such backwoods country hicks had no>business at Harvard and probably didn't even deserve to be in Cambridge.>> She frowned as the couple approached.>> "We want to see the president," the man said softly.>>"He'll be busy all day," the secretary snapped.>>"We'll wait," the lady replied.>>For hours, the secretary ignored them hoping that the couple would finally>become discouraged and go away. They didn't.>>The secretary grew frustrated and finally decided to disturb the president,>even though it was a chore she always regretted doing.>>"Maybe if they just see you for a few minutes, they'll leave," she told>him.>>He sighed in exasperation and nodded while thinking that someone of his>importance obviously didn't have the time to spend with them Besides, he>detested gingham dresses and homespun suits cluttering up his outer office.>>As the president, stern-faced with dignity, strutted toward the couple.The>lady told him:>>"We had a son that attended Harvard for one year. He loved Harvard. Hewas>very happy here. But about a year ago, he was accidentally killed. My>husband and I would like to erect a memorial to him somewhere on campus.">>The president wasn't touched, he was shocked. "Madam," he said gruffly."We>can't put up a statue for every person who attended Harvard and died. Ifwe>did, this place would look like a cemetery".>>"Oh, no," the lady explained quickly. "We don't want to erect a statue.We>thought we would like to give a building to Harvard.">>The president rolled his eyes. He glanced at the gingham dress andhomespun>suit and then exclaimed,>>"A building! Do you have any earthly idea how much a building costs? We>have over seven and a half million dollars in the physical plant atHarvard.">>For a moment the lady was silent. The president was pleased. He could get>rid of them now. Just then the lady turned to her husband and saidquietly,>>"Is that all it costs to start a University? Why don't we just start our>own?">>Her husband nodded. The president's face wilted in confusion and>bewilderment.>>Mr. and Mrs. Leland Stanford walked away, traveling to Palo Alto,California>where they established the University that bears their name Stanford>University, a memorial to a son that Harvard no longer cared about.
Subj: Mitsawokett questionsDate: 98-10-05 16:25:13 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Betty & Ray. I was going through some of the information on the Mitsawokett website today, and found some wonderful data on some individuals I hadn't expected to see there: some Carter descendants who married into a branch near your line, through Annie Dean Mosley's daughter Rheba.
I had a couple of questions I thought I might ask:
1. Do you know the parents of Rheba's husband George Elwood "Dick" Carter? I suspect he is descended from one of the brothers of my great-great-grandmother Elizabeth Carty/Carter, possibly her brother George Thomas Carty/Carter.
2. I notice you have one of the daughters of George Calvin Carter and Betty Ann Grigsby spelled as "Yonne." Should this be "Yvonne"? Just curious....
3. Do you know the Ridgeway ancestry (parents, grandparents) of Gary Wayne Ridgeway, Yonne's husband?
4. Under Joel Clayton Webster, Sr (son of Ida Carter Webster), you have him listed as having 2 wives, and then 3 children. Are these 3 children all from the 2nd wife? And why does the 3rd child have the last name of Fiester instead of Webster?
That's all. The site is working very good. Thanks! John
Subj: Checking in...Date: 98-10-13 18:32:11 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hello again, Betty & Ray. Just thought I'd follow-up with a note.... I hadn't really heard anything from you lately, and am wondering how things are going? I've sent you a few messages in recent weeks ("Mitsawoket Questions," "William Carney," "J.Brent Thomas," "Mosely Madness," etc), and hadn't heard any reply from you. Have been thinking recently, and hope that I haven't said or done anything to have offended you....I'm assuming you've just been busy. Anyway, would love to hear from you when you have an opportunity, and I hope all is going well. Thanks! John
Subj: SAR: James Dean; John Durham Sr.Date: 98-10-17 21:27:11 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'), Hello, everyone. Just a note to let you know that I received my Supplemental Membership approval today from the SAR (Sons of the American Revolution) for my lineage under James Dean (d. June 1787). Also, sent off my application today for another Supplemental under John Durham Sr. (d. 13 May 1788). You may recall that both were eligible ancestors, due to their having supplied grain in 1781 toward the cause of the Revolution. If anyone is interested in the data I used, toward applying for the SAR or DAR, please let me know and I would be happy to share. Thanks! John P.S. I would like to submit one under William Concilor as well, but need to find proof that he was the father of Elijah Concilor (b. ca. 1762). This will probably not be easy, in light of all the different William Concilors that were discussed a couple of months ago....
Subj: FW: Surname SalmonDate: 98-10-20 22:56:53 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'), 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), bennettj@ ('Carpenter, Patti Muncey (bennettj@)'), bugs@ ('Handsor, Floyd (bugs@)'), ccc47331@si- ('Counceller, Chuck (ccc47331@si-)'), cdwade@ecsu.campus. ('Wade, Cora (cdwade@ecsu.campus.)'), DL7715@ ('Seaney, Dave (DL7715@)'), eheite@ ('Heite, Ned (eheite@)'), Hank2732@ ('Kressman, Annabelle (Hank2732@)'), hendrix@mursuky.campus. ('Hendrix, Shirley (hendrix@mursuky.campus.)'), Heritage49@ ('Marshall, Sandy Coursey (Heritage49@)'), hmuncey@ ('Muncey, Harry (hmuncey@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)'), montigre@ ('Jacobsen, Gail (montigre@)'), MPierce96@ ('Pierce, Michele (MPierce96@)'), pepper@ ('Miller, Jon (pepper@)'), psam@ ('Sammons, Preston L. (psam@)'), rbright4@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie (rbright4@)'), seaney@ccmail..il.us ('Seaney, Rod (seaney@ccmail..il.us)'), seen1@ ('Seeney, Chuck (seen1@)'), stewardm@ ('Steward, Mollie (stewardm@)')
For the info of those researching Sammons, etc. (also note Prettyman surname). JCC
----------From: Kincaid, Diana[SMTP:KincaiD@morrow.k12.or.us]Sent: Monday, October 19, 1998 6:58 PMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: Surname Salmon
Would like to exchange information with anyone researching the surnameSalmon/Salmons/Salmans in the Georgetown or Lewes area of Sussex Co.Delaware. Isaac Reed Salmon b. 1740 m. Basha Wallace who had at leastthree known children: Thomas Wallace b. 1770, Levi b. 1772 who marriedSarah Grice, and Isaac Reed Jr. Other surnames married into family wereMcColley, Parsons, Prettyman, Chase, Simpler, Power, VanDyke and Ross.Thank you, Diana
______________________________
Subj: RE (Rose's msg): Proofreaders, pleaseDate: 98-10-30 06:48:30 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: hmuncey@ (hmuncey@), rbright4@ ('Rose Marie Ridgeway'), spiff@ (spiff@)CC: 104141.3670@ (104141.3670@), 74547.41@ (74547.41@), AquaBetty@ (AquaBetty@), bennettj@ (bennettj@), BHUTTON131@ (BHUTTON131@), Boatskul70@ (Boatskul70@), bordleycsw@ (bordleycsw@), bugs@ (bugs@), c.hall@csu-e.csuohio.edu (c.hall@csu-e.csuohio.edu), cblume6@ (cblume6@), ccc47331@si- (ccc47331@si-), cdwade@ecsu.campus. (cdwade@ecsu.campus.), counsellorrcounsel@northland.lib.mi.us (counsellorrcounsel@northland.lib.mi.us), crossd@ (crossd@), dart@ (dart@), eheite@ (eheite@), gatesc@ (gatesc@), Hank2732@ (Hank2732@), hendrix@mursuky.campus. (hendrix@mursuky.campus.), Heritage49@ (Heritage49@), JACKLYN001@ (JACKLYN001@), jcouncil@ (jcouncil@), Jhelmer@ (Jhelmer@), JHutton131@ (JHutton131@), jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu (jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu), jms314@ (jms314@), l.@ (l.@), lea@ (lea@), LFREIDA15@ (LFREIDA15@), miggest@ (miggest@), mollienj@ (mollienj@), Montigre@ (Montigre@), mpierce96@ (mpierce96@), MSavoy9836@ (MSavoy9836@), muse7@ (muse7@), Nanticoke9@ (Nanticoke9@), pepper@ (pepper@), pococat@ (pococat@), psam@ (psam@), rbc@unm.edu (rbc@unm.edu), richard@ (richard@), seen1@ (seen1@), ShngSprt@ (ShngSprt@), songs-hansing@ (songs-hansing@), spiff@ (spiff@), sstreet@ (sstreet@), wyantash@ (wyantash@), WyNot22@ (WyNot22@)
Hi, Rose. According to the chart I mentioned in my earlier message, yes, Charles Clark's mother was a Greenage, but it was his GREAT-GREAT-grandmother who was a Munce. Regarding Mary Priscilla Ridgeway, was this her maiden name? In other words, her sister (Kenneth Clark's grandmother) was a Ridgeway as well? This is interesting, and I would be interested if anyone has more on the connection. Thanks. JCC
----------From: Rose Marie Ridgeway[SMTP:rbright4@]Sent: Thursday, October 29, 1998 6:19 PMTo: hmuncey@; spiff@Subject: Re: Proofreaders, please
Hi guys,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ned I thiink you wanted to put Assist. ChiefCharles Clark motherwas a Greenage, and his ggmother a Munce.
Harry did you ever find out who Chief Kenny Clarks mothe was?
I spoke to Mary Virginia Johnson Morgan today, she told me that herggrandmother, Mary Pricilla Ridgeway's sister was Kenny Clarksggrandmother. She also told me that Bill Davis gave her this info. Itwas what his father told him. Bill Davis lives in Millsboro, and isconnected with Jackson /Davis family. But I'm thinking it must come inon his mother's side. Let me know if you all have any info on this.-----------------------------------On Thu, 29 Oct 1998 18:06:41 -0800 Harry Muncey writes:>Ned Heite wrote:>> >> Someone asked me to write a concis
Subj: RE: MOSLEY'S AGAINDate: 98-10-25 14:53:12 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: rbright4@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie (rbright4@)')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Rose.
Thanks for the clarification. I realized I had named Wingate as being the son of the wrong parents. This was a scrolling error when I was reading the earlier e-mail message. I see now that you had listed him as a son of Purnell P. Mosley & Eliza Jane Johnson, and I had inadvertantly copied Wingate as being a son of John & Clara Johnson Mosley. I had it in my FTM correctly, just copied it wrong when I wanted to ask you about Wingate's wife.
----------
1. Thanks also for clarifying that Wingate's wife was Clara Jackson, not Nancy Kimmey. Do you know who Clara's parents were?
----------
2. Regarding: "3. Sarah Liz Mosley md. ?"...
...I think I may have given this to you in an earlier reply, but my records show Sarah Liz as having married Jeffrey Beckett (son of Peter Beckett & Mary Reed). Let me know if you show this not to be correct.
----------
3. Regarding: "8. Emma Mosley md. ?"...
...as with #2 above, let me know if this is not correct, but my notes show Emma as having married Ray Frazier Carney, son of William Morris "Mike" Carney and Sarah "Sally" E. Mosley. Just thought I would let you know.
----------
Thanks again for all your help! John
----------From: Rose Marie Ridgeway[SMTP:rbright4@]Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 1998 2:18 PMTo: spiff@Subject: RE: MOSLEY'S AGAIN
Hi John,
I received your e-mail today dated Oct 20, 1998. I went back to dig outmy letter dated 9/25/98.
Purnell P. Mosley and Eliza Jane JohnsonChildren:
1.John Mosley md. Clara Johnson
2. Lydia A. Mosley md. George R. Morris
3. Sarah Liz Mosley md. ?
4. Charlotte Mosley md. ?
5. Ellen Mosley md. Harry C. Mosley
6. Rebecca Mosley md. Henry Durham
7. Wingate B. Mosley md. Clara Jackson =It was not Nancy Kimmey, I musthave looked at the wrong paper when I was typing in the name.
8. Emma Mosley md. ?
9. Levi Mosley md. #1 Sadie Mae Mosley - #2. Clara Hansley
10. Thomas Burton Mosley md. Mary Jane Driggus
11. Alfred P. Mosley Sr. md. Charlotte Pierce ----------------------------------------------------------I must have been looking at another paper when I typed in Nancy mdWingate Mosley son of Purnell Mosley. It should have beenas follows:------------------------------
Nancy H. Mosley b. 1870 - d. 1931, daug of John M. Mosley and ElizabethJohnson married Joseph H. Kimmey son of James H. Kimmey and Elizabeth"Zippy" Mosley----------------------------------------------------------
John Mosley and Elizabeth JohnsonChildren:
1. Elisha Mosley
2. Lucinda Mosley
3. Nancy H. Mosley md. Joseph Kimmey
4. Return Mosley
5. Cordelia "Deli" Mosley
6. Lavinia "Vennie" Mosley
7. Albert Mosley
8. Sally "Sarah" Mosley
9. Mary Mosley------------------------------------------------
This is a family Mosley marrying Mosley's, very confusing.If you sent Betty my info, she was probably confused also. That might bewhy she didnot get back to you. She should know that Wingate & Nancy Mosley familymore than I. I have not looked over Betty's site yet. I will be online after tomorrow night. Maybe I can get to check out the info. Alsowhen I learn to use this machine I will scan some family pictures andsend them.
Rose
___________________________________________________________________
Subj: FW: 'Colonial Families of Delaware'Date: 98-10-29 06:54:45 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
For your info. (Forwarding for the reference to the BOOK, not the name Betts). JCC
----------From: Frank O'Donnell[SMTP:fod@]Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 10:42 PMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: 'Colonial Families of Delaware'
Has anyone seen F. Edward Wright's new book "Colonial Families of Delaware" from Family Line Publications? I see by the blurb (at ) that it says that it covers families primarily from Kent Co but a few from Sussex Co; among the families listed is BETTS. I'm working on Betts in Sussex Co, and am curious if those might be the families included.
Thanks much,
Frank O'DonnellSouth Pasadena, CAfod@
Subj: RE: Wingate MoselyDate: 98-11-01 22:16:36 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: rbright4@ ('Rose Marie Ridgeway')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)')
Hi, Rose. (and Betty & Lorraine).
I'm confused about who the wife of Wingate Mosely was. Originally you had told me it was Nancy Kimmey, then you corrected it to Clara Jackson. However, after getting your last message, I noticed that I had TWO Wingate Mosely's in my FTM. (One I showed as married to Nancy _____, with at least one child, Charles Henry Mosely--data from Betty regarding her ancestor. The other is Wingate B. Mosely, married to Clara Jackson--data from you). But I think they might be the same person, and I just made a mistake. (???) So I went back to the data I received from Betty & Ray in Dec 1997, and they had written a paper entitled "The Descendants of Robert Dean and Catherine Morgan, his wife, and Wingate Mosely and Nancy, his wife." So, what I'm wondering is, did Betty also have a mistake when she said Wingate's wife was Nancy, or were there indeed TWO different Wingate Moselys?
Actually, I see in Betty & Ray's document that there was a SON Wingate as well, but they state that they did not know who this Wingate married. Could this son be the Wingate who married Clara? (NO!--Just realized that this Wingate is the son of Purnell P. Mosely & Eliza Jane Johnson. Now I'm REALLY confused!) I'm going to try to paste the text from their document here & see what happens:
--------------------
(1) Wingate MOSLEY was born about 1820 in Kent County, Delaware. During his life he worked as a woodchopper, laborer and farmer in Kent County, Delaware. No record of his death has as yet been found. He married Nancy H. or A. She was born about 1825 in Kent County, Delaware. She died on 30 Jan 1894 at Dover, Kent, Delaware.
Children:
1. James MOSLEY was born about 1843 in Delaware. 2. Purnell MOSLEY was born about 1846. 3. Betsey MOSLEY was born about 1847 in Delaware. 4. Ephram MOSLEY was born about 1850 in Delaware. He married Caroline GREEN on 30 Jul 1870 in Kent County, Delaware. 5. Nancy MOSLEY was born about 1854 in Delaware. She died on 29 Mar 1890 in Delaware. 6. Harriett MOSLEY was born about 1855 in Delaware. 7. Wingate MOSLEY was born about 1858 in Delaware. He married a person whose name is not yet known. 8. Charles Henry MOSLEY was born on 15 Nov 1861. 9. Elizabeth MOSLEY was born about 1862 at Moorton, Kent, Delaware. She married William F. DEAN on 3 Jun 1883 in Kent County, Delaware. He was born about 1863 at Moorton, Kent, Delaware. Marriage record Vol 90, p 130, Kent Co Marriages 3 Jun 1883 gives ages, birth places, parents. 10. Sarah MOSLEY was born about 1863 in Delaware.
---------------
Any help that anyone can share on deciphering the (possible) two Wingates would be most appreciated.
Thanks! John
----------From: Rose Marie Ridgeway[SMTP:rbright4@]Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 2:41 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: FW2: MOSLEY'S AGAIN
Hi John,
< snip >
However, I do know who Clara Jackson parents are. She was the daughterof Robert Jackson b. approx. 1842 d. Dec 29 1915 in Millsboro De. andLydia Ann Wright b. approx. 1847 d. May 3, 1901 in Millsboro. Bettyand Ray should have the correct dates because Clara and Wingate'sdaughter was Lib Mosley Durham.
< snip >
Sweetsie---------------------------------------------
>---------->From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]>Sent: Sunday, October 25, 1998 2:54 PM>To: 'Ridgeway, Rose Marie (rbright4@)'>Cc: 'Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'>Subject: RE: MOSLEY'S AGAIN>> Hi, Rose.>> Thanks for the clarification. I realized I had named Wingate >as being =>the son of the wrong parents. This was a scrolling error when I was =>reading the earlier e-mail message. I see now that you had listed him >=>as a son of Purnell P. Mosley & Eliza Jane Johnson, and I had =>inadvertantly copied Wingate as being a son of John & Clara Johnson =>Mosley. I had it in my FTM correctly, just copied it wrong when I =>wanted to ask you about Wingate's wife.>>---------->> 1. Thanks also for clarifying that Wingate's wife was Clara >Jackson, =>not Nancy Kimmey. Do you know who Clara's parents were?>< snip >>---------->> Thanks again for all your help!> John>>>---------->From: Rose Marie Ridgeway[SMTP:rbright4@]>Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 1998 2:18 PM>To: spiff@>Subject: RE: MOSLEY'S AGAIN>>>Hi John,>>I received your e-mail today dated Oct 20, 1998. I went back to dig >out>my letter dated 9/25/98.>>Purnell P. Mosley and Eliza Jane Johnson>Children:>>1.John Mosley md. Clara Johnson>>2. Lydia A. Mosley md. George R. Morris>>3. Sarah Liz Mosley md. ?>>4. Charlotte Mosley md. ?>>5. Ellen Mosley md. Harry C. Mosley>>6. Rebecca Mosley md. Henry Durham>>7. Wingate B. Mosley md. Clara Jackson =3DIt was not Nancy Kimmey, I >=>must>have looked at the wrong paper when I was typing in the name.>>8. Emma Mosley md. ?>>9. Levi Mosley md. #1 Sadie Mae Mosley - #2. Clara Hansley>>>10. Thomas Burton Mosley md. Mary Jane Driggus>>11. Alfred P. Mosley Sr. md. Charlotte Pierce =20>---------------------------------------------------------->I must have been looking at another paper when I typed in Nancy md>Wingate Mosley son of=20>Purnell Mosley. It should have been>as follows:>------------------------------>>Nancy H. Mosley b. 1870 - d. 1931, daug of John M. Mosley and >Elizabeth>Johnson married Joseph H. Kimmey son of James H. Kimmey and Elizabeth>"Zippy" Mosley>---------------------------------------------------------->>John Mosley and Elizabeth Johnson>Children:>>1. Elisha Mosley>>2. Lucinda Mosley>>3. Nancy H. Mosley md. Joseph Kimmey>>4. Return Mosley>>5. Cordelia "Deli" Mosley>>6. Lavinia "Vennie" Mosley>>7. Albert Mosley>>8. Sally "Sarah" Mosley>>9. Mary Mosley>------------------------------------------------>>This is a family Mosley marrying Mosley's, very confusing.>If you sent Betty my info, she was probably confused also. That might >=>be>why she did>not get back to you. She should know that Wingate & Nancy Mosley >family>more than I. I have not looked over Betty's site yet. I will be on>line after tomorrow night. Maybe I can get to check out the info. >Also>when I learn to use this machine I will scan some family pictures >and>send them.>>Rose>
Subj: RE: JCC's questionsDate: 98-11-01 15:32:48 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Betty. I finally had a chance to go through this data in more detail. Thanks very much for your help!
I do have one question. You have Iona Phillena Durham (1923-1983) (dau. of Wm. Thomas Durham & Maymie C. C. Beckett Durham) as having married William Thomas Reed (1898-1989), but according to Lorraine Gregg, Iona was married to Charles W. "Buck" Reed, who was a SON of William T. Reed and Mary M. Mosely Reed. Can you please verify? (The ages would tend to agree that William Thomas Reed was Iona's father-in-law rather than husband, since he was 25 years older than Iona).
Thanks! John
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Monday, September 07, 1998 11:53 PMTo: spiff@Subject: JCC's questions
"digging through some catch-up mail"
Number in left column is generation number (2William Thomas Durham is son of 1Daniel Durham).
1 Daniel Durham d 9 Jan 1931 m Caroline (Carney?) d 24 Dec 19142 William Thomas Durham 31 Oct 1890-17 Jul 1973
1 Peter H. Beckett 1857-1942 m Mary E. Reed 1858-19362 Maymie Caroline Coxey Beckett 2 May 1894-17 Aug 1969 (all names were given at birth)
2 William Thomas Durham m 6 Nov 1912 Maymie Cariline Coxey Beckett3 Dorothy Winona Durham b 1913 d 1988 m Norace Carney b 1912 d 19833 Warren Jerome Durham b 1915 m ? living3 Floyd Harlen Durham b 1918 m Doris --, living -- owns Delaware Air Park3 Iona Phillena Durham b 1923 d 1983 m William Thomas Reed b 1898 d 19893 Brenda Cleo Durham b 1920 d 1994 m & div James Coker living3 Donald Durham b 1930 m 1975 div 1978 (name?) died 1996 undertaker
2William & Maymie are the parents of the 3's, Dorothy thru Donald.
---------------------
2. Regarding this part:
"James Clifford Seeney, son of Fredrick H. Seeney and Hester Dean.Hester Dean, daug of Robert Dean and Cathrine Morgan. Robert Dean sonof Jesse Dean and Hester Carney. Cathrine Morgan daug. of John H. Morganand Meary A. Coker.Meary A. Coker dau. of James Coker and Eliza Jackson.(This is about all the infor I have on them.)"
Thanks, I had most of this already, but I think you have an error in here. I always knew that Catherine Morgan was the daughter of John Morgan, but never knew her mother's name. Also, I knew that James Coker's daughter Mary (Meary) had married _____ Morgan, but never knew the first name. But these cannot be the same people, because the timeline is off. The Mary Coker who married a ___ Morgan was the sister of Moses Coker (son of James & Eliza), husband of Mary Ann Dean, Catherine's daughter. So, Catherine's mother could not be the same person as her own granddaughter's sister-in-law. I wish I could draw pictures in this darn e-mail! :-) Look at it this way: the Mary Coker who was daughter of James & Eliza (and who married ____ Morgan) was born 09 Sep 1844. Catherine Morgan Dean (later Carney) was born 27 Dec 1833, so her mother would have to be born by, say, about 1813 or so. Therefore, summing up, we know Catherine Morgan was indeed the daughter of a John Morgan. And we know Mary Coker (daughter of James & Eliza) did indeed marry a ____ Morgan, but IF it was a JOHN Morgan, it had to be a DIFFERENT John Morgan than the one who was Catherine's father. And IF Catherine's mother was somehow a Mary Coker, it had to be a different Mary Coker than the one who was daughter of James & Eliza. (But I don't think she'll be a Coker, because James Coker was the emigrant/earliest Coker from Maryland). Confused yet?? :-) All-in-all, as far as my last discussions with Betty Terry and Lynn Jackson, we don't yet know who the mother of Catherine was, just that her father was John Morgan.
--------------------
< snip >
Thanks so much again! John
----------From: Rose Marie Ridgeway[SMTP:rbright4@]Sent: Sunday, October 04, 1998 9:59 PMTo: spiff@Subject: RE:
Hi John,
< snip >-----------------------------
James Clifford Seeney, son of Fredrick H. Seeney and Hester Dean.Hester Dean, daug of Robert Dean and Cathrine Morgan. Robert Dean sonnof Jesse Dean and Hester Carney. Cathrine Morgan daug. of John H. Morganand Meary A. Coker.
Meary A. Coker dau. of James Coker and Eliza Jackson.(This is about all the infor I have on them.)____________________
< snip >
Sweetsie
Subj: Re: Catherine Morgan's parents ??Date: 98-11-09 02:33:55 ESTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 98-11-08 18:35:08 EST, you write:
>:
______________________________
Subj: FW: Seaney Family TreeDate: 98-11-08 20:36:31 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), eheite@
For your info. JCC
----------From: DL7715@[SMTP:DL7715@]Sent: Sunday, November 08, 1998 8:19 PMTo: comercar@; marlbeard@; wava@;
Subject: Seaney Family Tree
Hello Everyone !Good news, I have just downloaded my Seaney file to the Family Tree Makerwebsite. Now all of you can search it anytime you want. And if you spotsomething that doesn't look right just let me know. It's in the Genealogy Report format so even stories are listed. Here is theaddress:
You will see the report listed at the bottom of the page, just click there.
There are a few names and dates I'm still waiting on but I can update themwhen I get them.
Dave
Subj: Re: FW: Seaney Family TreeDate: 98-11-09 08:15:20 ESTFrom: eheite@ (Ned Heite)To: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
Went to the website. It's a good start on a project that could be massive.
Good beginning, but I was disappointed that the second generation wasincomplete and the succeeding generations were missing. Owen is one ofthose ancestors whose descendants have been documented in all directions.
_____Ned Heite, Camden, DE
Subj: FW: Native American MonthDate: 98-11-06 21:43:45 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
Hello, all. This came across today on the Melungeon list-serve. JCC
----------From: RAIN882955@[SMTP:RAIN882955@]Sent: Friday, November 06, 1998 7:52 AMTo: Melungeon-L@Subject: [Melungeon-L] Fwd: Native American Month FYI
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary (Cape Canaveral, Florida)________________________________________________________________________For Immediate Release October 29, 1998
NATIONAL AMERICAN INDIAN HERITAGE MONTH, 1998
- - - - - - -
BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
A PROCLAMATION
American Indians and Alaska Natives -- the first Americans -- havemade enormous contributions to the life of our country. When the firstEuropeans arrived on this continent, they did not find an empty land;they found instead a land of diverse peoples with a rich and complexsystem of governments, languages, religions, values, and traditions thathave shaped and influenced American history and heritage. Generations of American Indians have served and sacrificed to defend our freedom, and no segment of our population has sent a larger percentage of its young men and women to serve in our Armed Forces. But American Indians are not just an important part of our country's past; they are also a vital part of today's America and will play an even more important role in America's future.
There are more than 2 million American Indians living in our countrytoday, from the hardwood forests of Maine to the Florida Everglades,across the Great Plains to the Pacific Coast, and throughout the State of Alaska. Through a variety of innovative enterprises, many tribes are sharing in the unprecedented prosperity our country enjoys today,prosperity that is reflected in the construction of community centers,schools, museums, and other cultural centers. However, many people wholive in Indian Country are caught in a cycle of poverty made worse bypoor health care and a lack of educational and employment opportunity.If we are to honor the United States Government's long-standingobligations to Indian tribes, we must do all in our power to ensure thatAmerican Indians have access to the tools and opportunities they need tomake the most of their lives.
As part of this endeavor, my Administration has strengthened thespecial government-to-government relationship between the FederalGovernment and the sovereign nations of Indian Country, expanded the role of American Indians and Alaska Natives in the Administration, and sought to increase educational opportunities and economic development throughout Indian Country. Earlier this year, I signed an Executive order directing the Federal Government to work together with tribal and State governments to improve Native American achievement in math and reading, raise high school graduation rates, increase the number of Native American youth attending college, improve science education, and expand the use of educational technology. We are also striving to boosteconomic development in Indian Country by working with tribal governments to meet their technology infrastructure needs, to coordinateand strengthen existing Native American economic development initiatives, and to help Native Americans obtain loans more easily for building homes and starting new businesses.
Today's Native Americans are among the youngest segments of ourpopulation -- a new, large generation of young people who, if empoweredwith the education, skills, opportunity, and encouragement they need tothrive, can lead Indian Country into a future as bright and promising as its extraordinary past. As we observe National American Indian Heritage Month, let us resolve to work together to make that future a reality.
NOW, THEREFORE, I, WILLIAM J. CLINTON, President of the UnitedStates of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by theConstitution and laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim November1998 as National American Indian Heritage Month. I urge all Americans,as well as their elected representatives at the Federal, State, local,and tribal levels, to observe this month with appropriate programs,ceremonies, and activities.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twenty-ninth day of October, in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred andninety-eight, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and twenty-third.
WILLIAM J. CLINTON
From: John Walters[SMTP:john_walters@]Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 8:30 PMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: Sussex Co. Mailing List
Hi everyone:
I just found out that Sussex County now has their own mailing list:
I haven't seen anything about this on this mailing list so thought I'dpass this information along.Joanne Walters
Subj: On vacationDate: 98-11-19 20:53:32 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
Hello, everyone. Just a note to let everyone know that I will be on vacation until Nov 29th. I don't look forward to the number of messages waiting in my inbox when I return (especially since I now subscribe to 6 different lists), but I DO look forward to corresponding with all of you again after I return. (It might take me a while to catch up!) Take care, and Happy Thanksgiving!! John
Subj: RE: Back from vacationDate: 98-12-03 07:02:38 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
Hello, everyone. Just a note to say that I got back from vacation safe and sound, but am still trying to get caught up with everything. I have a total of 153 unread messages (many of them are from lists), so if any of you are waiting for replies, I ask you to please be patient with me! :-) I hope (!!!) to get caught up by this weekend, but I ALSO still have to do Christmas cards, put up the tree, go shopping, watch taped TV shows, balance the checkbook, attend to the yard, etc, etc, etc...!! Yikes!! 'Tis the season.... Thanks, everyone. John
Subj: FW: [DESUSSEX-L] Will of Burton JohnsonDate: 98-12-08 06:54:37 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)')
Not sure if you all are subscribing to the Sussex listserve or not.... Thought you might find this of interest.... (Floyd Handsor has just sent an introduction to her/him as well).... John
----------From: QNantiHela@[SMTP:QNantiHela@]Sent: Monday, December 07, 1998 10:04 AMTo: DESUSSEX-L@Subject: [DESUSSEX-L] Will of Burton Johnson
Taken from the Sussex County, Delaware Will Book L 1JAN 1852 - 24 FEB 1860
Johnson, Burton tanner Ind Riv H. 4Dec1852 16Dec1852 pg 40Sons: James H. Burton, Robert W. Daus: Elizabeth Willaims, Patience Street,Mary Parkinso Grson: Eben Leonard. Grdaus: Mary (dau/Elizabeth), Mary(dau/Mitchel) (both U21). Son-law: Harma Parkinson. EX-Levin Sockum. Wit:James B Coffin, Arcadia G Coffin.
Subj: African American Civil War MemorialDate: 98-12-09 07:13:26 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'),
Hello, all.
As many of you know, due to the mixed-blood "status" of many of our ancestors from the Delaware area, they were required to join Colored units if they wished to volunteer for military service.
Also, you may have heard in the news in recent months about a new memorial created in Washington DC, the African American Civil War Memorial. The memorial itself was officially dedicated this past July, but what was not yet completed at that time were the steel plates bearing the names of every soldier who served in a Colored unit, along with their white officers. An article I have of the monument from July states, "it will be several more months before the panels are ready for installation." (I'm guessing the panels will be somewhat similar to those on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial...?)
I'm not sure if these panels/plaques have indeed been installed yet or not, but while searching for information about this wonderful new monument, I came across the website noted below. This site allows searchers to each and every name slated to be on one of the plaques.
I am very, very excited to find the name of my great-great-grandfather, Cornelius Ridgeway, slated to be on one of the plaques. However, they've misspelled his name (!!) as "Cornebus" instead of Cornelius. (I've sent an e-mail message, inquiring as to whether it's too late to have this corrected).
At any rate, here are the names of all family members I've found so far which will be displayed on the completed monument:
Cornelius Ridgeway, Company C, 8th U.S. Colored Infantry
Alfred Ridgeway, Company C, 8th U.S. Colored Infantry (Cornelius' brother)
Daniel Coker, Company C, 25th U.S. Colored Infantry
William Carney, Company F, 32nd U.S. Colored Infantry
(I forgot to search for Isaiah "Zaddock/Zeddick" Munce/Muntz, but I'm sure he'll be there, since he shows on official rosters for Company E, 30th U.S. Colored Infantry).
(I tried to search for John Morgan, but could not find the right one--there are many--but Lynn and I have had previous unsuccessful attempts to find further evidence of his military record, even though...I believe it's his tombstone, right, Lynn?--lists him as being a Civil War veteran).
(Does anyone know of any other Civil War veterans in our families??)
Here is the website:
To search for soldiers' names, click on "Names Database." Once there, type-in the last name of the soldier and press .
If you have any questions, let me know! Sincerely, one VERY excited and proud John Carter!
Subj: Proof of brothers??Date: 98-12-11 21:33:41 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)'), rbright4@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie (rbright4@)')
Hello, all. I know I've discussed this subject with one or more of you before, but I thought I would check to see if any of you know of anything that specifically links ("proves") that William Carney (ca. 1836-12 Jan 1907, Civil War vet) was a brother of Robert Carney (13 Aug 1815-18 Jan 1889)?? Did either one leave a will or have any records that make reference to the other? Or even to a niece or nephew that would have been a child of the other? Lorraine: Would the Joe & Mary Dean Carney Bible (that contained Robert's birthdate) make any reference of William? I would greatly appreciate any tidbits of info, or suggestions that any of you might have. Thanks!! JohnSubj: Received your Christmas cardDate: 98-12-15 07:02:47 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hello, Betty & Ray. I received your Christmas card, containing your nice letter. I feel so bad anymore that I never seem to have the time to jot down at least a few words in each card.... Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I think you've mixed me up with Jon Miller, regarding at least one characteristic: I do not work in the florist business! :-) I believe Jon and his wife have a floral shop in North Carolina, as a part of their retirement, or pre-retirement (he used to work at a television station in Philadelphia, I understand). I myself work for a mutual fund company (Franklin Templeton Mutual Funds), where I've been for just about nine years now. However, I myself am hoping to move up to the Charlotte, NC area in the coming future, and who knows WHAT kind of occupation I'll be in then, since the only reason I'm working for a mutual fund company is that they were the first place to hire me when I moved to Florida! (I used to work for the Postal Service in California previously). Anyway, just thought I'd clear that up, ha, ha! Take care, and have a wonderful holiday if I don't chat with you again before then! John
Subj: RE: CowardDate: 98-12-27 20:46:48 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: LFREIDA15@ ('LFREIDA15@')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Lorraine. Wow, I'm finally getting a chance to go over some e-mail messages still pending from November! :-) However, I was a little confused by the one below. You mentioned an error on a website, but I'm not sure what website you mean. I'm guessing you might be referring to the one by the Terrys, so I'm cc'ing them with this message. You were right, I had the connection listed wrong in my FTM, and I just corrected it. Thanks for the info. I don't have time to look at the Terrys' website at the moment (my pc is SOOOOO slow when going onto the Internet), but if they got the info from one of my GEDCOM's then that's probably how the error got there. Let me know if you were talking about a different website that the Terrys' (Mitsawokett). Thanks! John
----------From: LFREIDA15@[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Friday, November 06, 1998 6:48 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re Coward
John I meant to put this on the other E-Mail, On the Web-Site, I really thinkthe site is wonderful, tremendous amount of work, not nit pickingbut--------under Issac Sammons----third generation #12 Edward Coward he mLydia Robinson, dau of John Clayton and Pricilla Johnson Robinson, Edwardand Lydia split up and she m a Makie , I don't know his first name. She isburied in Smyrna DE. Lydia Robinson Coward Makie d May 20, 1950. PricillaJohnson m John Clayton Robinson and they were my ggrandparents. I havenoticed this on some other papers and I mentioned it to Rose, but I don'tknow if she changed hers yet.
Thanks Lorraine
Subj: Catch-up #1Date: 99-01-01 03:04:25 ESTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
We have a foot-high stack of papers to work on. We've gone after your questions many times and never got to them (they wound up at the bottom somehow.)
Your e-mail of 10/5/98:
"I was going through some of the information on the Mitsawokett website today, and found some wonderful data on some individuals I hadn't expected to see there: some Carter descendants who married into a branch near your line, through Annie Dean Mosley's daughter Rheba.
I had a couple of questions I thought I might ask:
1. Do you know the parents of Rheba's husband George Elwood "Dick" Carter? I suspect he is descended from one of the brothers of my great-great-grandmother Elizabeth Carty/Carter, possibly her brother George Thomas Carty/Carter.
We a Bible and a death certificate which refer to Dick's parents. Read on, you'll eventurally get to it.........
George Elwood "Dick" Carter's daughter Ida Carter Webster dragged out the family Bible when we spent the night with her last year. It had the following entries:
Bible “Presented to Rheba M. Carter by Geo. E. Carter,” no date in Bible.Copied 5 Sep 1997 at Ida Carter Webster’s home, Fairton, N.J. by Betty Terry.
George Elwood Carter and Rheba Dean Mosley married at Smyrna, Delaware on the 22nd day of July in the year of our Lord 1922 in the presence of Alva Pritchett and Willie Morris. Signed Rev. Gillis, Smyrna, Del.
MARRIAGES
Ida Rheba Carter and Elmer Webster 24 Dec 1941G. Calvin and Betty Ann Grigsby 26 Feb 1947Bertha Elizabeth Webster and Alvin Pierce 13 May 1961Elwood Phillip Webster and Emma Pritchett 25 Sep 1966Joel C. Webster and Marian Mercer 1 Feb 1969Russell and Bertha Webster 21 Oct 1907Estella Mae and Robert Adkins 23 Nov 1976Rheba Eloise Webster and Calvin Pierce 21 Jun 1980Ida Billye Pierce to Deano Cuff 8 Jul 1987Melody Lynn Pierce to Jerry Loatman Sep 1982
BIRTHS
Ida Rheba Carter 1 Nov 1923George Calvin Carter 8 Dec 1927Rheba M. Carter 10 Mar 1903George E. Carter 12 Jun 1900Bertha Elizabeth Webster 2 Jul 1942Elwood Phillip Webster 9 Nov 1943Joel Clayton Webster 2 Nov 1946Charles Milton Webster 22 Aug 1948Rheba Eloise Webster 13 Nov 1951Estella Mae Webster 22 Jan 1959C. Kevin Webster 7 Oct 1971 (Susie’s son grandsons) (Eloise Susie--BDT)Loretta Rheba Carter 1 Aug 1947 (Calvin’s daughter--BDT)Zachary Calvin Carter 8 Nov 1951 (Calvin’s son--BDT)Gail Yvette Carter 27 Jul 1955Betty Ann Grigsby 29 Dec 1929
DEATHS
Rheba Dean Carter 25 Feb 1938 (Ida’s mother--BDT)Bertha Webster 30 Jan 1959 (Elmer’s mother--BDT)George Elwood Carter 17 Feb 1971 (Ida’s father--BDT)Russell Webster 26 Jul 1971 (Elmer’s father--BDT)
IN ADDITION, a second Bible:
Bible of Ida Rheba Carter Webster
Copied 9/5/97 at Ida’s home, 37 Lummis Mill Rd.., Fairton, NJEvents not contemporaneously entered.Parenthetical notes added by RJ Terry.
Elmer Webster of Fairton, N.J. (born 19 Sep 1919, Fairton) married Ida Rheba Carter of Cheswold, Del. at Gouldtown Parsonage on 24th Dec 1941. Witnesses: Anna Mac Gould and Nelson Streets. Signed Rev. George A. Mitchell.
PARENTS
Russell Webster 4 Jun 1885 - 27 Jul 1971 Father Married Gouldtown, N.J. 21 Oct 1907 Bertha Mae Cuff 22 Jan 1884 - 30 Jan 1959 Mother
Burial place of Russell and Bertha -- Gouldtown Cemetery, Gouldtown, N.J.
GRANDPARENTS
1. George (William) Carter (grandfather) 2. Sally Carney (grandmother)
(Libby Webster Pierce says: see Delaware’s Forgotten Folks.” George William Carter's father was George William Carter, chief of Tanapeke(?) Indians. She verified this at Georgetown, Del on route 113, 1 hour below Dover. Sally Carney Carter also Indian, records at Georgetown, Del. Also at Nanticoke Indian Museum, Millsboro, Del., at intersection of Rt 24 and Rt 5.)
3. Charles Mosley4. Annie E. Mosley (Dean) 30 Jan 1870 - 27 Jul 1963
PARENTS
George Elwood Carter married 22 Jul 1922, Smyrna, Del, Rheba Mosley12 Jun 1900 - 17 Feb 1971 10 Mar 1903 - 25 Feb 1938buried Cheswold, Del buried Cheswold, Del
BIRTHS
Bertha Elizabeth (Webster) 2 Jul 1942Elwood Phillip (Webster) 9 Nov 1943Joel Clayton (Webster) 2 Nov 1946Charles Milton (Webster) 22 Aug 1948Rheba Eloise (Webster) 13 Nov 1951Estella Mae (Webster) 22 Jan 1959
Grandchildren:
Ida Billye Pierce 22 Feb 1962Melody Lynn (Pierce) 4 Nov 1963?Kevin Calvin (Pierce) 7 Oct 1971Joann Webster 2 Apr 1966Elmer Russell Webster 27 Jan 1971Joel Clayton Webster 4 May 1971Wm Herbert Webster 24 Jul 1974James Edward Adkins 20 Feb 1975Robert Eugene Adkins Jr 27 Nov 1977Rufus Dean Cuff 12 Feb 1987Joshua Loatman ?
Greatgrandchildren:
Jerry Ephraim Loatman III 7 Sep 1983Casey (Elizabeth Cuff) 2 Apr 1994Devon K. (Carper) 7 May 1994J(ames Edward) Adkins Sep 1994
MARRIAGES
Libby (Bertha E. Webster) & Alvin Pierce 13 May 1961Phillip (Webster) & Emma Pritchett 25 Sep 1966Joel & Marian Mercer Webster 1 Feb 1969Estella Mae (Webster) & Robert Adkins 23 Nov 1976Susie (Webster) & Butch Pierce 21 Jun 1980Melody (Pierce) & Jerry Loatman Sep 1982Billye (Pierce) & Deano Cuff 8 Jul 1987Joel (Webster) & Charlene 22 Jun 1991
DEATHS Rheba M. Mosley Carter 25 Feb 1938Bertha M. Webster 30 Jan 1959George E. Carter 17 Feb 1971Russell Webster 27 Jul 1971Eloise Carter Oct 1993 stepmotherElmer Webster 11 Nov 1993 Retta Webster 19 Aug 1953 auntEarl Webster ? uncle
(MILITARY) SERVICE
Elwood Phillip Webster, Air Force, Lackland, Texas.
Joel Clayton Webster 24 Aug 1964 - 31 Aug 1968 Navy, Great Lakes. Joel was hurt 28 Jan 1968 in the service, USS Ranger off Viet Nam. (5 days unconscious, 8 mos in the hospital. He received a medical discharge.
Charles Milton Webster, Navy Seabees.
DEATH CERTIFICATE OF GEORGE ELWOOD CARTER cert #518 State of Delaware, New Castle local reg #W-527, 17 Feb 1971Father GEORGE W. CARTER Mother SALLY CARBET CARTER
It says the informant was "Family." Where Carbet comes from no one knows. Ida's Bible says Dick's mother was Sally CARNEY. Dick died when he was married to Eloise Hughes. We sensed a lack of harmony between the family and Eloise. Perhaps she was the "Family" and did not know correctly Dick's mother's name.
In old records we got from Wilson and Grace Davis there is a GEORGE TAFT CARTER mentioned who married LINA MOSLEY, both of MD, then DE. We can't find a George Taft in the records, only George Thomas.
Calvin Carter of Dover told us about a medicine man who live near him 40 years ago by the name of TAFT CARTER. We figured perhaps he was descended from a George Taft Carter but have not delved into this yet.
We went to MD Hall of Records in Annapolis last month and did not find death records for George or Lina.
2. I notice you have one of the daughters of George Calvin Carter and Betty Ann Grigsby spelled as "Yonne." Should this be "Yvonne"? Just curious....
Yonne is correct! No vee.
3. Do you know the Ridgeway ancestry (parents, grandparents) of Gary Wayne Ridgeway, Yonne's husband?
No. We did not inquire. You can contact Calvin Carter, 177 Rosebowl Road, Dover, DE 19901. Calvin and his wife Betty were friendly but not spontaneously forthcoming with info. Had to dig for what we got. Calvin and Betty Terry played together as kids.
4. Under Joel Clayton Webster, Sr (son of Ida Carter Webster), you have him listed as having 2 wives, and then 3 children. Are these 3 children all from the 2nd wife? And why does the 3rd child have the last name of Fiester instead of Webster?
That is something we will have to ask Ida. Most of Ida's family gathered around a table with us to swap family info. No one had records. Joel's memory was not too good. Maybe there was some hanky panky he did not want to talk about--but that is pure speculation.
That's all. The site is working very good. Thanks! John
-------------
We will continue with the back log. Thanks for all your work!!
B&R
Subj: RE: CowardDate: 98-12-27 20:46:48 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: LFREIDA15@ ('LFREIDA15@')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Lorraine. Wow, I'm finally getting a chance to go over some e-mail messages still pending from November! :-) However, I was a little confused by the one below. You mentioned an error on a website, but I'm not sure what website you mean. I'm guessing you might be referring to the one by the Terrys, so I'm cc'ing them with this message. You were right, I had the connection listed wrong in my FTM, and I just corrected it. Thanks for the info. I don't have time to look at the Terrys' website at the moment (my pc is SOOOOO slow when going onto the Internet), but if they got the info from one of my GEDCOM's then that's probably how the error got there. Let me know if you were talking about a different website that the Terrys' (Mitsawokett). Thanks! John
----------From: LFREIDA15@[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Friday, November 06, 1998 6:48 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re Coward
John I meant to put this on the other E-Mail, On the Web-Site, I really thinkthe site is wonderful, tremendous amount of work, not nit pickingbut--------under Issac Sammons----third generation #12 Edward Coward he mLydia Robinson, dau of John Clayton and Pricilla Johnson Robinson, Edwardand Lydia split up and she m a Makie , I don't know his first name. She isburied in Smyrna DE. Lydia Robinson Coward Makie d May 20, 1950. PricillaJohnson m John Clayton Robinson and they were my ggrandparents. I havenoticed this on some other papers and I mentioned it to Rose, but I don'tknow if she changed hers yet.
Thanks Lorraine
Subj: RE: John, Purnel & Wingate MOSLEYDate: 98-12-27 22:59:22 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)')
Hi, Lorraine. Can't remember if I forwarded a copy of this to you after receiving it from Betty & Ray Terry in November, but here it is again. I was just studying the data, and entering it into my FTM.
They have clarified the discrepancy between the 1871 date and the 10 Oct 1875 date for Purnell's marriage, but now I wonder who the Purnell who married Mary L. Mosely in 1875 is??
I have a total of FOUR different Purnell Moselys in my FTM. Three are in one branch:
1. Purnell Mosely (b. ca. 1820) m. Rebecca Miller (b. ca. 1822)
Their son: 2. Purnell Mosely (b. ca. 1852/3) m. Susan Sammons (b. ca. 1858) (m. 10 Oct 1875).
Great-grandson of the first Purnell above (Grandson of Joseph C. Mosely) (Son of Andrew Mosely): 3. Purnell Mosely (b. unknown, died 1918) m. Unknown
The fourth Purnell is son of Wingate & Nancy Mosely: 4. Purnell P. Mosely (b. May 1844) m. Elizabeth "Eliza" Jane Johnson (b. Mar 1848) (m. 1871)
SO WHO IS THE PURNELL WHO MARRIED MARY L. MOSELY IN 1875?? It doesn't seem that it can be any of the above, unless #1 re-married.
------------------------
ALSO: Who is the Isaac Sammons (husband of Elizabeth Ridgway) who is listed as father of Susan Sammons, bride of #2 Purnell?? I have a total of FIVE Isaac Sammons', four from one branch:
1. Isaac Sammons, Sr. (b. 1800) m1st. Pamela Coursey (married 18 Dec 1819) m2nd. Esther Handsey (married 1830) m3rd. Prudence Argo (married ca. 1850)
Isaac Sr & third wife Prudence's son: 2. Isaac Sammons, Jr. (b. May 1873) m. Agnes M. Clark
Grandson of first Isaac above (Son of Nehemiah Morris Sammons): 3. Isaac S. Sammons (b. Oct 1867) m. Rebecca A. _______
Son of Isaac S. & Rebecca (Great-grandson of first Isaac above): 4. Isaac Sammons (b. 1913) m. Unknown
Son of John Sammons & Elizabeth _______: 5. Isaac Sammons (b. Unknown) (his sister Sarah was b. 1839 and married Samuel Loatman Sr.)
SO WHO IS THE ISAAC SAMMONS WHO MARRIED ELIZABETH RIDGWAY, AND HAD A DAUGHTER SUSAN BORN CA. 1858??
-----------------------------
In the section that mentions Wingate Mosely (son of Purnell P.) married Clara Jackson, why are Clara Jackson's parents' names listed as DURHAM instead of JACKSON?
-----------------------------
WHO IS THIS?:
"MOSELY, John W. died 26 Apr 1889 at Pearsons Corner, Kent, DE, age 70 yrs. Race Moor, sex M. Parents John & Betsey Mosely. Ref 1889 Folder 5A, Kent Co. death records."
---------------------------------
WHICH PURNELL IS THIS?:
"MOSLEY, Purnell died 22 Jun 1889 New Castle Co, DE. 1889 Folder 18, reel 36, RG 1500, Del Archives 9/97. Age 45. Color black, birthplace unknown, residence Appoquinamink Hundred, occupation preacher, married, male, nation of parents unknown. Cause of death pneumonia. Signed T.A. Enos, MD 1 Oct 1889, residence Townsend, DE. Note: a second death certificate was issued with death date 19 June 1889."
-----------------------------
WHICH PURNELL IS THIS?:
"MOSLEY, Purnell P. (T?) Permission to remove body from Philadelphia, Pa to Cheswold, DE 1903 folder 5A, reel 93, RG 1500 Dover Archives. Phila. Health Dept #6982. Cert dated 30 Sep 1903 (not known if this is death date. Recorded in Kent Co 28 Dec 1903. Colored, age 8(4?), died 1/28(?), no parents listed. Born Del. Cancer of rectum. Res Phila, 519 So 9th St. Undertaker H. L. (?)"
-------------------------------
Betty & Ray: In regard to your question:
"Please provide the ancestry of Purnel's wife, Eliza Jane Johnson and thesource(s) used to document it and the other children of Purnel and Eliza: 7. Alfred P., Sr. 8. Ellen 9. Emma 10. Rebecca 11. Thomas Burton"
...I will forward a message from Lorraine, right after I send this one, which will answer some of this. (Message will be entitled "Purnell Mosely, etc")
--------------------------------
Lorraine (and Betty & Ray & Rose), I realize you may not know the answers to these questions, but I just listed them also to confirm what is unknown at this point, in case I'm missing something that is obvious here or somewhere else.
THANKS, (everyone), for all your help!
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!
John
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 2:54 AMTo: spiff@Subject: John, Purnel & Wingate MOSLEY
We have the following in our files, taken from the marriage and death recordson file at Dover:
Groom: MOSLEY, Purnel no further info in record Bride: MOSLEY, Mary L. Place: Date: 1875 Minister: C.W. Huntington Source: Kent Co. Marriages (X) Reference: Vol 90, p 102, Kent Co. Marriages
Groom: MOSLEY, Purnell age 22, color M, b Del, Res East Dover Hundred, farmer Bride: SAMMONS, Susan age 17, color M, b Del, Res Dover Hundred (cert says Salmons) Place: County: Kent Date: 10 Oct 1875 Cert date: 7 Jan 1897 Regis date: 31 Dec 1896 Minister: James H. Hope Source: Kent Co. Marriages (X) Reference: Vol 90, p 173, Kent Co. Marriages Groom's Parents: Purnell Mosley & Rebecca Miller, b Frederica, Del. Bride's Parents: Issac Salmons & Elizabeth Ridgway, b Sussex Co. -------------
It appears we erred--assigning the marriage date for MOSLEY, Purnell andSAMMONS, Susan to Purnel and Eliza.
-------------
Groom: MOSELY, Winket age 21, brown, b Cheswold, res Camden, DE Bride: SMITH, Ida age 18, brown, b Kantabery, DE, res same Place: City of Wilmington, New Castle Co. (marriage) Date: 19 Jun 1894 Minister: M. Johnson Source: License, X Return Reference: Vol 72, p 86, Kent Co. Marriages (license 18 Jun, 1894) Groom's parents: Eferens (sic) Moseley, b Cheswold & Carilorn (sic) Green, b Dover Bride's parents: Garriett Smith & Carsborn (Canhoin, Carsloin??) Fisher Witnesses: R. Johnson, Amelia Moseley, Lizzie Smith
Groom: MOSLEY, Wingate looked at folder Bride: JACKSON, Clara 9/97. No more info. Place: Kent Co., Del Lib Mosley Durham, Date: 4 June 1908 widow of Pic Durham Minister: says these are her parents. Reference: Folder 1A 1908
MOSLEY, John died 5 Sep 1953 cert 2571. Father Purnel, mother Eliza Johnson.XEROXED 9/97. The record says he was born in 1882, but the 1880 censusshows him to be 8 years old.
MOSELY, John W. died 26 Apr 1889 at Pearsons Corner, Kent, DE, age 70 yrs.Race Moor, sex M. Parents John & Betsey Mosely. Ref 1889 Folder 5A, Kent Co.death records.
MOSLEY, Nancy died 30 Jan 1894 age 73 yrs. (b c 1821) at Dover, Kent, DE.Race N, sex F. Died from old age, widowed. Ref 1894 Folder 7C Kent Co.death records. (b c 1821, Wingate's wife was age 45-1870 census = born 1825,25-1850 census = born 1825.) This may be Wingate's wife (mother of Charles H.Mosley).
MOSLEY, Purnell died 22 Jun 1889 New Castle Co, DE. 1889 Folder 18, reel 36,RG 1500, Del Archives 9/97. Age 45. Color black, birthplace unknown,residence Appoquinamink Hundred, occupation preacher, married, male, nation ofparents unknown. Cause of death pneumonia. Signed T.A. Enos, MD 1 Oct 1889,residence Townsend, DE. Note: a second death certificate was issued with death date 19 June 1889.
MOSLEY, Purnell P. (T?) Permission to remove body from Philadelphia, Pa toCheswold, DE 1903 folder 5A, reel 93, RG 1500 Dover Archives. Phila. HealthDept #6982. Cert dated 30 Sep 1903 (not known if this is death date. Recordedin Kent Co 28 Dec 1903. Colored, age 8(4?), died 1/28(?), no parents listed.Born Del. Cancer of rectum. Res Phila, 519 So 9th St. Undertaker H. L. (?)
MOSLEY, Purnell died 16 Sep 1924 at Kent Co., Del, Age 76, certificate 2371.Birth date not known. Moor. Farmer. Born Del. Father Purnell Mosely, b Del.Mother Becky Miller, b Del. Bright's disease. Informant W.M. Carney,Dover. Buried at Fork Branch Cem 20 Sep 1924 by undertaker W.C. Pritchett.This is the Purnell who married Susan Sammons.Purnell and Becky are the ancestors of Sterling Street (10/24/97)
MOSLEY, Wingate died 4 Jan 1954 age 71 yr 7 mo at Kent Gen'l Hospital, Dover,Kent, DE. Cert 12. Male, Moorish, married, born 30 Jun 1882, Del,occupation carpenter work. Wife Ethel Mosley. Father Purnell Mosley, b Del.Mother Eliza J. Johnson, b Del. Reporter Ethel M. Mosley, Dover, Del.Coronary occlusion, ateriosclerosis, diabetes. Signed C.S. Dennis, Dover, Del4 Jan 1954. Buried 7 Jan 1954 at Fork Branch Cem, Dover, DE RFD. Funeraldirector Calvin Clark, Dover, DE. Reel 73, RG 1500 Del Archives. XEROXED9/97Lib Durham & Grace Kemps's father. Ethel (nee Mosley) is second wife.
------------
With regard to the additional children, we would not be surprised--we wererelying on present-day memories and census (1890 missing) to complete thefamily.
What is bothering us about most of the research we have published on the webpage is the lack of primary documentation. Much of what we have is derivedfrom hearsay evidence and secondary sources.
-------------Levi Mosley's age was taken from 1880 census:
1880 Federal Census, (Nat'l Archives, Wash, DC): East Dover Hundred, Kent, Delaware. sex age bornMOSELY, Purnell m 34 Del Eliza f 33 " John m 8 " Lydia A. f 7 " Sarah L. f 5 " Charlotte f 4 " Levi m 1 "
------------
Please provide the ancestry of Purnel's wife, Eliza Jane Johnson and the source(s) used to document it and the other children of Purnel and Eliza:
-----------
We will try to answer the stack of mail we have before us in the near future.Thanks for your continuing good research, interest, sharing......
B&R
Subj: RE: Purnell Mosely, etc.Date: 98-12-27 22:59:31 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
Hello, all.
Betty & Ray: In regard to your question in the other e-mail:
"Please provide the ancestry of Purnel's wife, Eliza Jane Johnson and thesource(s) used to document it and the other children of Purnel and Eliza: 7. Alfred P., Sr. 8. Ellen 9. Emma 10. Rebecca 11. Thomas Burton"
...see the 1900 census data that Lorraine has listed in the message attached below.
----------
Lorraine: There does seem to be a discrepancy with Wingate's birthdate, however. (And forgive me if this has been discussed and I forgot!)
The 1900 census data you listed gave Wingate's birthdate as May 1886, but I had him listed as born 30 Jun 1882. My source field gives a reference of an e-mail message from Betty & Ray, dated 28 Dec 1997. Betty & Ray: Can you confirm?
ALSO: Lorraine: You noted that the 1900 census record listed Annie Mosely as mother-in-law to Purnell, but how can that be? Purnell's mother in law should be a Johnson, right?
THANKS, AGAIN, everyone!! John
----------From: LFREIDA15@[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 8:48 PMTo: spiff@; AquaBetty@; rbright4@Subject: Re: Purnell Mosely
Hi Betty,Rose.John:
Sending info from 1880 and 1900 Census DE
1880 West Dover, all b in DE, Parents too.
Purnell Mosley head, age 34, Eliza wife, age 33, John son, age 8, Lydia Adau, age 7, Sarah L, dau age 5, Charoltt dau, age 4, Levi son, age 1.
1900 Census DE family #32 All b DE Parents too, except last entry
Purnell P Mosley head, b May 1844, age 56, Eliza wife, b March 1848 age 52,married 29 years, mother of 11, 11 living. Levi son, b Oct 1879, age 20,Ellen dau, b Aug 1880, age 19, Rebecca dau, b June 1883, age 17, Wingate son,b May 1886, age 14, Emma dau, b Jun 1887, age 12, Thomas son, b July 1890,age 9, Alfred son, b Aug 1891, age 8.
Also last entry is Annie Mosley M-law, b Dec 1813, age 86, WD m 22 years,mother of 1, 1 living, b in PA, Parents b in DE.
1900 Census Purnell P Mosley is the only one w/middle initial.Like I said these Mosley families make me dizzy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Lorraine
Subj: RE: John, Purnel & Wingate MOSLEYDate: 98-12-27 22:59:22 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)')
Hi, Lorraine. Can't remember if I forwarded a copy of this to you after receiving it from Betty & Ray Terry in November, but here it is again. I was just studying the data, and entering it into my FTM.
They have clarified the discrepancy between the 1871 date and the 10 Oct 1875 date for Purnell's marriage, but now I wonder who the Purnell who married Mary L. Mosely in 1875 is??
I have a total of FOUR different Purnell Moselys in my FTM. Three are in one branch:
1. Purnell Mosely (b. ca. 1820) m. Rebecca Miller (b. ca. 1822)
Their son: 2. Purnell Mosely (b. ca. 1852/3) m. Susan Sammons (b. ca. 1858) (m. 10 Oct 1875).
Great-grandson of the first Purnell above (Grandson of Joseph C. Mosely) (Son of Andrew Mosely): 3. Purnell Mosely (b. unknown, died 1918) m. Unknown
The fourth Purnell is son of Wingate & Nancy Mosely: 4. Purnell P. Mosely (b. May 1844) m. Elizabeth "Eliza" Jane Johnson (b. Mar 1848) (m. 1871)
SO WHO IS THE PURNELL WHO MARRIED MARY L. MOSELY IN 1875?? It doesn't seem that it can be any of the above, unless #1 re-married.
------------------------
ALSO: Who is the Isaac Sammons (husband of Elizabeth Ridgway) who is listed as father of Susan Sammons, bride of #2 Purnell?? I have a total of FIVE Isaac Sammons', four from one branch:
1. Isaac Sammons, Sr. (b. 1800) m1st. Pamela Coursey (married 18 Dec 1819) m2nd. Esther Handsey (married 1830) m3rd. Prudence Argo (married ca. 1850)
Isaac Sr & third wife Prudence's son: 2. Isaac Sammons, Jr. (b. May 1873) m. Agnes M. Clark
Grandson of first Isaac above (Son of Nehemiah Morris Sammons): 3. Isaac S. Sammons (b. Oct 1867) m. Rebecca A. _______
Son of Isaac S. & Rebecca (Great-grandson of first Isaac above): 4. Isaac Sammons (b. 1913) m. Unknown
Son of John Sammons & Elizabeth _______: 5. Isaac Sammons (b. Unknown) (his sister Sarah was b. 1839 and married Samuel Loatman Sr.)
SO WHO IS THE ISAAC SAMMONS WHO MARRIED ELIZABETH RIDGWAY, AND HAD A DAUGHTER SUSAN BORN CA. 1858??
-----------------------------
In the section that mentions Wingate Mosely (son of Purnell P.) married Clara Jackson, why are Clara Jackson's parents' names listed as DURHAM instead of JACKSON?
-----------------------------
WHO IS THIS?:
"MOSELY, John W. died 26 Apr 1889 at Pearsons Corner, Kent, DE, age 70 yrs. Race Moor, sex M. Parents John & Betsey Mosely. Ref 1889 Folder 5A, Kent Co. death records."
---------------------------------
WHICH PURNELL IS THIS?:
"MOSLEY, Purnell died 22 Jun 1889 New Castle Co, DE. 1889 Folder 18, reel 36, RG 1500, Del Archives 9/97. Age 45. Color black, birthplace unknown, residence Appoquinamink Hundred, occupation preacher, married, male, nation of parents unknown. Cause of death pneumonia. Signed T.A. Enos, MD 1 Oct 1889, residence Townsend, DE. Note: a second death certificate was issued with death date 19 June 1889."
-----------------------------
WHICH PURNELL IS THIS?:
"MOSLEY, Purnell P. (T?) Permission to remove body from Philadelphia, Pa to Cheswold, DE 1903 folder 5A, reel 93, RG 1500 Dover Archives. Phila. Health Dept #6982. Cert dated 30 Sep 1903 (not known if this is death date. Recorded in Kent Co 28 Dec 1903. Colored, age 8(4?), died 1/28(?), no parents listed. Born Del. Cancer of rectum. Res Phila, 519 So 9th St. Undertaker H. L. (?)"
-------------------------------
Betty & Ray: In regard to your question:
"Please provide the ancestry of Purnel's wife, Eliza Jane Johnson and thesource(s) used to document it and the other children of Purnel and Eliza: 7. Alfred P., Sr. 8. Ellen 9. Emma 10. Rebecca 11. Thomas Burton"
...I will forward a message from Lorraine, right after I send this one, which will answer some of this. (Message will be entitled "Purnell Mosely, etc")
--------------------------------
Lorraine (and Betty & Ray & Rose), I realize you may not know the answers to these questions, but I just listed them also to confirm what is unknown at this point, in case I'm missing something that is obvious here or somewhere else.
THANKS, (everyone), for all your help!
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!
John
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 2:54 AMTo: spiff@Subject: John, Purnel & Wingate MOSLEY
We have the following in our files, taken from the marriage and death recordson file at Dover:
Groom: MOSLEY, Purnel no further info in record Bride: MOSLEY, Mary L. Place: Date: 1875 Minister: C.W. Huntington Source: Kent Co. Marriages (X) Reference: Vol 90, p 102, Kent Co. Marriages
Groom: MOSLEY, Purnell age 22, color M, b Del, Res East Dover Hundred,farmer Bride: SAMMONS, Susan age 17, color M, b Del, Res Dover Hundred (cert says Salmons) Place: County: Kent Date: 10 Oct 1875 Cert date: 7 Jan 1897 Regis date: 31 Dec 1896 Minister: James H. Hope Source: Kent Co. Marriages (X) Reference: Vol 90, p 173, Kent Co. Marriages Groom's Parents: Purnell Mosley & Rebecca Miller, b Frederica, Del. Bride's Parents: Issac Salmons & Elizabeth Ridgway, b Sussex Co. -------------
It appears we erred--assigning the marriage date for MOSLEY, Purnell andSAMMONS, Susan to Purnel and Eliza.
-------------
Groom: MOSELY, Winket age 21, brown, b Cheswold, res Camden, DE Bride: SMITH, Ida age 18, brown, b Kantabery, DE, res same Place: City of Wilmington, New Castle Co. (marriage) Date: 19 Jun 1894 Minister: M. Johnson Source: License, X Return Reference: Vol 72, p 86, Kent Co. Marriages (license 18 Jun, 1894) Groom's parents: Eferens (sic) Moseley, b Cheswold & Carilorn (sic) Green, b Dover Bride's parents: Garriett Smith & Carsborn (Canhoin, Carsloin??) Fisher Witnesses: R. Johnson, Amelia Moseley, Lizzie Smith
Groom: MOSLEY, Wingate looked at folder Bride: JACKSON, Clara 9/97. No more info. Place: Kent Co., Del Lib Mosley Durham, Date: 4 June 1908 widow of Pic Durham Minister: says these are her parents. Reference: Folder 1A 1908
MOSLEY, John died 5 Sep 1953 cert 2571. Father Purnel, mother Eliza Johnson.XEROXED 9/97. The record says he was born in 1882, but the 1880 censusshows him to be 8 years old.
MOSLEY, John died 5 Sep 1953 cert 2571. Father Purnel, mother Eliza Johnson. XEROXED 9/97
MOSELY, John W. died 26 Apr 1889 at Pearsons Corner, Kent, DE, age 70 yrs.Race Moor, sex M. Parents John & Betsey Mosely. Ref 1889 Folder 5A, Kent Co.death records.
MOSLEY, Nancy died 30 Jan 1894 age 73 yrs. (b c 1821) at Dover, Kent, DE.Race N, sex F. Died from old age, widowed. Ref 1894 Folder 7C Kent Co.death records. (b c 1821, Wingate's wife was age 45-1870 census = born 1825,25-1850 census = born 1825.) This may be Wingate's wife (mother of Charles H.Mosley).
MOSLEY, Purnell died 22 Jun 1889 New Castle Co, DE. 1889 Folder 18, reel 36,RG 1500, Del Archives 9/97. Age 45. Color black, birthplace unknown,residence Appoquinamink Hundred, occupation preacher, married, male, nation ofparents unknown. Cause of death pneumonia. Signed T.A. Enos, MD 1 Oct 1889,residence Townsend, DE. Note: a second death certificate was issued with death date 19 June 1889.
MOSLEY, Purnell P. (T?) Permission to remove body from Philadelphia, Pa toCheswold, DE 1903 folder 5A, reel 93, RG 1500 Dover Archives. Phila. HealthDept #6982. Cert dated 30 Sep 1903 (not known if this is death date. Recordedin Kent Co 28 Dec 1903. Colored, age 8(4?), died 1/28(?), no parents listed.Born Del. Cancer of rectum. Res Phila, 519 So 9th St. Undertaker H. L. (?)
MOSLEY, Purnell died 16 Sep 1924 at Kent Co., Del, Age 76, certificate 2371.Birth date not known. Moor. Farmer. Born Del. Father Purnell Mosely, b Del.Mother Becky Miller, b Del. Bright's disease. Informant W.M. Carney,Dover. Buried at Fork Branch Cem 20 Sep 1924 by undertaker W.C. Pritchett.This is the Purnell who married Susan Sammons.Purnell and Becky are the ancestors of Sterling Street (10/24/97)
MOSLEY, Wingate died 4 Jan 1954 age 71 yr 7 mo at Kent Gen'l Hospital, Dover,Kent, DE. Cert 12. Male, Moorish, married, born 30 Jun 1882, Del,occupation carpenter work. Wife Ethel Mosley. Father Purnell Mosley, b Del.Mother Eliza J. Johnson, b Del. Reporter Ethel M. Mosley, Dover, Del.Coronary occlusion, ateriosclerosis, diabetes. Signed C.S. Dennis, Dover, Del4 Jan 1954. Buried 7 Jan 1954 at Fork Branch Cem, Dover, DE RFD. Funeraldirector Calvin Clark, Dover, DE. Reel 73, RG 1500 Del Archives. XEROXED9/97Lib Durham & Grace Kemps's father. Ethel (nee Mosley) is second wife.
------------
With regard to the additional children, we would not be surprised--we wererelying on present-day memories and census (1890 missing) to complete thefamily.
What is bothering us about most of the research we have published on the webpage is the lack of primary documentation. Much of what we have is derivedfrom hearsay evidence and secondary sources.
-------------Levi Mosley's age was taken from 1880 census:
1880 Federal Census, (Nat'l Archives, Wash, DC): East Dover Hundred, Kent, Delaware. sex age bornMOSELY, Purnell m 34 Del Eliza f 33 " John m 8 " Lydia A. f 7 " Sarah L. f 5 " Charlotte f 4 " Levi m 1 "
------------
Please provide the ancestry of Purnel's wife, Eliza Jane Johnson and the source(s) used to document it and the other children of Purnel and Eliza:
-----------
We will try to answer the stack of mail we have before us in the near future.Thanks for your continuing good research, interest, sharing......
B&R
Subj: RE: Purnell Mosely, etc.Date: 98-12-27 22:59:31 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
Hello, all.
Betty & Ray: In regard to your question in the other e-mail:
"Please provide the ancestry of Purnel's wife, Eliza Jane Johnson and thesource(s) used to document it and the other children of Purnel and Eliza: 7. Alfred P., Sr. 8. Ellen 9. Emma 10. Rebecca 11. Thomas Burton"
...see the 1900 census data that Lorraine has listed in the message attached below.
----------
Lorraine: There does seem to be a discrepancy with Wingate's birthdate, however. (And forgive me if this has been discussed and I forgot!)
The 1900 census data you listed gave Wingate's birthdate as May 1886, but I had him listed as born 30 Jun 1882. My source field gives a reference of an e-mail message from Betty & Ray, dated 28 Dec 1997. Betty & Ray: Can you confirm?
ALSO: Lorraine: You noted that the 1900 census record listed Annie Mosely as mother-in-law to Purnell, but how can that be? Purnell's mother in law should be a Johnson, right?
THANKS, AGAIN, everyone!! John
----------From: LFREIDA15@[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 8:48 PMTo: spiff@; AquaBetty@; rbright4@Subject: Re: Purnell Mosely
Hi Betty,Rose.John:
Sending info from 1880 and 1900 Census DE
1880 West Dover, all b in DE, Parents too.
Purnell Mosley head, age 34, Eliza wife, age 33, John son, age 8, Lydia Adau, age 7, Sarah L, dau age 5, Charoltt dau, age 4, Levi son, age 1.
1900 Census DE family #32 All b DE Parents too, except last entry
Purnell P Mosley head, b May 1844, age 56, Eliza wife, b March 1848 age 52,married 29 years, mother of 11, 11 living. Levi son, b Oct 1879, age 20,Ellen dau, b Aug 1880, age 19, Rebecca dau, b June 1883, age 17, Wingate son,b May 1886, age 14, Emma dau, b Jun 1887, age 12, Thomas son, b July 1890,age 9, Alfred son, b Aug 1891, age 8.
Also last entry is Annie Mosley M-law, b Dec 1813, age 86, WD m 22 years,mother of 1, 1 living, b in PA, Parents b in DE.
1900 Census Purnell P Mosley is the only one w/middle initial.Like I said these Mosley families make me dizzy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Lorraine
Subj: RE: John, Purnel & Wingate MOSLEYDate: 98-12-27 22:59:22 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)')
Hi, Lorraine. Can't remember if I forwarded a copy of this to you after receiving it from Betty & Ray Terry in November, but here it is again. I was just studying the data, and entering it into my FTM.
They have clarified the discrepancy between the 1871 date and the 10 Oct 1875 date for Purnell's marriage, but now I wonder who the Purnell who married Mary L. Mosely in 1875 is??
I have a total of FOUR different Purnell Moselys in my FTM. Three are in one branch:
1. Purnell Mosely (b. ca. 1820) m. Rebecca Miller (b. ca. 1822)
Their son: 2. Purnell Mosely (b. ca. 1852/3) m. Susan Sammons (b. ca. 1858) (m. 10 Oct 1875).
Great-grandson of the first Purnell above (Grandson of Joseph C. Mosely) (Son of Andrew Mosely): 3. Purnell Mosely (b. unknown, died 1918) m. Unknown
The fourth Purnell is son of Wingate & Nancy Mosely: 4. Purnell P. Mosely (b. May 1844) m. Elizabeth "Eliza" Jane Johnson (b. Mar 1848) (m. 1871)
SO WHO IS THE PURNELL WHO MARRIED MARY L. MOSELY IN 1875?? It doesn't seem that it can be any of the above, unless #1 re-married.
------------------------
ALSO: Who is the Isaac Sammons (husband of Elizabeth Ridgway) who is listed as father of Susan Sammons, bride of #2 Purnell?? I have a total of FIVE Isaac Sammons', four from one branch:
1. Isaac Sammons, Sr. (b. 1800) m1st. Pamela Coursey (married 18 Dec 1819) m2nd. Esther Handsey (married 1830) m3rd. Prudence Argo (married ca. 1850)
Isaac Sr & third wife Prudence's son: 2. Isaac Sammons, Jr. (b. May 1873) m. Agnes M. Clark
Grandson of first Isaac above (Son of Nehemiah Morris Sammons): 3. Isaac S. Sammons (b. Oct 1867) m. Rebecca A. _______
Son of Isaac S. & Rebecca (Great-grandson of first Isaac above): 4. Isaac Sammons (b. 1913) m. Unknown
Son of John Sammons & Elizabeth _______: 5. Isaac Sammons (b. Unknown) (his sister Sarah was b. 1839 and married Samuel Loatman Sr.)
SO WHO IS THE ISAAC SAMMONS WHO MARRIED ELIZABETH RIDGWAY, AND HAD A DAUGHTER SUSAN BORN CA. 1858??
-----------------------------
In the section that mentions Wingate Mosely (son of Purnell P.) married Clara Jackson, why are Clara Jackson's parents' names listed as DURHAM instead of JACKSON?
-----------------------------
WHO IS THIS?:
"MOSELY, John W. died 26 Apr 1889 at Pearsons Corner, Kent, DE, age 70 yrs. Race Moor, sex M. Parents John & Betsey Mosely. Ref 1889 Folder 5A, Kent Co. death records."
---------------------------------
WHICH PURNELL IS THIS?:
"MOSLEY, Purnell died 22 Jun 1889 New Castle Co, DE. 1889 Folder 18, reel 36, RG 1500, Del Archives 9/97. Age 45. Color black, birthplace unknown, residence Appoquinamink Hundred, occupation preacher, married, male, nation of parents unknown. Cause of death pneumonia. Signed T.A. Enos, MD 1 Oct 1889, residence Townsend, DE. Note: a second death certificate was issued with death date 19 June 1889."
-----------------------------
WHICH PURNELL IS THIS?:
"MOSLEY, Purnell P. (T?) Permission to remove body from Philadelphia, Pa to Cheswold, DE 1903 folder 5A, reel 93, RG 1500 Dover Archives. Phila. Health Dept #6982. Cert dated 30 Sep 1903 (not known if this is death date. Recorded in Kent Co 28 Dec 1903. Colored, age 8(4?), died 1/28(?), no parents listed. Born Del. Cancer of rectum. Res Phila, 519 So 9th St. Undertaker H. L. (?)"
-------------------------------
Betty & Ray: In regard to your question:
"Please provide the ancestry of Purnel's wife, Eliza Jane Johnson and thesource(s) used to document it and the other children of Purnel and Eliza: 7. Alfred P., Sr. 8. Ellen 9. Emma 10. Rebecca 11. Thomas Burton"
...I will forward a message from Lorraine, right after I send this one, which will answer some of this. (Message will be entitled "Purnell Mosely, etc")
--------------------------------
Lorraine (and Betty & Ray & Rose), I realize you may not know the answers to these questions, but I just listed them also to confirm what is unknown at this point, in case I'm missing something that is obvious here or somewhere else.
THANKS, (everyone), for all your help!
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!
John
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 2:54 AMTo: spiff@Subject: John, Purnel & Wingate MOSLEY
We have the following in our files, taken from the marriage and death recordson file at Dover:
Groom: MOSLEY, Purnel no further info in record Bride: MOSLEY, Mary L. Place: Date: 1875 Minister: C.W. Huntington Source: Kent Co. Marriages (X) Reference: Vol 90, p 102, Kent Co. Marriages
Groom: MOSLEY, Purnell age 22, color M, b Del, Res East Dover Hundred,farmer Bride: SAMMONS, Susan age 17, color M, b Del, Res Dover Hundred (cert says Salmons) Place: County: Kent Date: 10 Oct 1875 Cert date: 7 Jan 1897 Regis date: 31 Dec 1896 Minister: James H. Hope Source: Kent Co. Marriages (X) Reference: Vol 90, p 173, Kent Co. Marriages Groom's Parents: Purnell Mosley & Rebecca Miller, b Frederica, Del. Bride's Parents: Issac Salmons & Elizabeth Ridgway, b Sussex Co. -------------
It appears we erred--assigning the marriage date for MOSLEY, Purnell andSAMMONS, Susan to Purnel and Eliza.
-------------
Groom: MOSELY, Winket age 21, brown, b Cheswold, res Camden, DE Bride: SMITH, Ida age 18, brown, b Kantabery, DE, res same Place: City of Wilmington, New Castle Co. (marriage) Date: 19 Jun 1894 Minister: M. Johnson Source: License, X Return Reference: Vol 72, p 86, Kent Co. Marriages (license 18 Jun, 1894) Groom's parents: Eferens (sic) Moseley, b Cheswold & Carilorn (sic) Green, b Dover Bride's parents: Garriett Smith & Carsborn (Canhoin, Carsloin??) Fisher Witnesses: R. Johnson, Amelia Moseley, Lizzie Smith
Groom: MOSLEY, Wingate looked at folder Bride: JACKSON, Clara 9/97. No more info. Place: Kent Co., Del Lib Mosley Durham, Date: 4 June 1908 widow of Pic Durham Minister: says these are her parents. Reference: Folder 1A 1908
MOSLEY, John died 5 Sep 1953 cert 2571. Father Purnel, mother Eliza Johnson.XEROXED 9/97. The record says he was born in 1882, but the 1880 censusshows him to be 8 years old.
MOSLEY, John died 5 Sep 1953 cert 2571. Father Purnel, mother Eliza Johnson. XEROXED 9/97
MOSELY, John W. died 26 Apr 1889 at Pearsons Corner, Kent, DE, age 70 yrs.Race Moor, sex M. Parents John & Betsey Mosely. Ref 1889 Folder 5A, Kent Co.death records.
MOSLEY, Nancy died 30 Jan 1894 age 73 yrs. (b c 1821) at Dover, Kent, DE.Race N, sex F. Died from old age, widowed. Ref 1894 Folder 7C Kent Co.death records. (b c 1821, Wingate's wife was age 45-1870 census = born 1825,25-1850 census = born 1825.) This may be Wingate's wife (mother of Charles H.Mosley).
MOSLEY, Purnell died 22 Jun 1889 New Castle Co, DE. 1889 Folder 18, reel 36,RG 1500, Del Archives 9/97. Age 45. Color black, birthplace unknown,residence Appoquinamink Hundred, occupation preacher, married, male, nation ofparents unknown. Cause of death pneumonia. Signed T.A. Enos, MD 1 Oct 1889,residence Townsend, DE. Note: a second death certificate was issued with death date 19 June 1889.
MOSLEY, Purnell P. (T?) Permission to remove body from Philadelphia, Pa toCheswold, DE 1903 folder 5A, reel 93, RG 1500 Dover Archives. Phila. HealthDept #6982. Cert dated 30 Sep 1903 (not known if this is death date. Recordedin Kent Co 28 Dec 1903. Colored, age 8(4?), died 1/28(?), no parents listed.Born Del. Cancer of rectum. Res Phila, 519 So 9th St. Undertaker H. L. (?)
MOSLEY, Purnell died 16 Sep 1924 at Kent Co., Del, Age 76, certificate 2371.Birth date not known. Moor. Farmer. Born Del. Father Purnell Mosely, b Del.Mother Becky Miller, b Del. Bright's disease. Informant W.M. Carney,Dover. Buried at Fork Branch Cem 20 Sep 1924 by undertaker W.C. Pritchett.This is the Purnell who married Susan Sammons.Purnell and Becky are the ancestors of Sterling Street (10/24/97)
MOSLEY, Wingate died 4 Jan 1954 age 71 yr 7 mo at Kent Gen'l Hospital, Dover,Kent, DE. Cert 12. Male, Moorish, married, born 30 Jun 1882, Del,occupation carpenter work. Wife Ethel Mosley. Father Purnell Mosley, b Del.Mother Eliza J. Johnson, b Del. Reporter Ethel M. Mosley, Dover, Del.Coronary occlusion, ateriosclerosis, diabetes. Signed C.S. Dennis, Dover, Del4 Jan 1954. Buried 7 Jan 1954 at Fork Branch Cem, Dover, DE RFD. Funeraldirector Calvin Clark, Dover, DE. Reel 73, RG 1500 Del Archives. XEROXED9/97Lib Durham & Grace Kemps's father. Ethel (nee Mosley) is second wife.
------------
With regard to the additional children, we would not be surprised--we wererelying on present-day memories and census (1890 missing) to complete thefamily.
What is bothering us about most of the research we have published on the webpage is the lack of primary documentation. Much of what we have is derivedfrom hearsay evidence and secondary sources.
-------------Levi Mosley's age was taken from 1880 census:
1880 Federal Census, (Nat'l Archives, Wash, DC): East Dover Hundred, Kent, Delaware. sex age bornMOSELY, Purnell m 34 Del Eliza f 33 " John m 8 " Lydia A. f 7 " Sarah L. f 5 " Charlotte f 4 " Levi m 1 "
------------
Please provide the ancestry of Purnel's wife, Eliza Jane Johnson and the source(s) used to document it and the other children of Purnel and Eliza:
-----------
We will try to answer the stack of mail we have before us in the near future.Thanks for your continuing good research, interest, sharing......
B&R
Subj: RE: Purnell Mosely, etc.Date: 98-12-27 22:59:31 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
Hello, all.
Betty & Ray: In regard to your question in the other e-mail:
"Please provide the ancestry of Purnel's wife, Eliza Jane Johnson and thesource(s) used to document it and the other children of Purnel and Eliza: 7. Alfred P., Sr. 8. Ellen 9. Emma 10. Rebecca 11. Thomas Burton"
...see the 1900 census data that Lorraine has listed in the message attached below.
----------
Lorraine: There does seem to be a discrepancy with Wingate's birthdate, however. (And forgive me if this has been discussed and I forgot!)
The 1900 census data you listed gave Wingate's birthdate as May 1886, but I had him listed as born 30 Jun 1882. My source field gives a reference of an e-mail message from Betty & Ray, dated 28 Dec 1997. Betty & Ray: Can you confirm?
ALSO: Lorraine: You noted that the 1900 census record listed Annie Mosely as mother-in-law to Purnell, but how can that be? Purnell's mother in law should be a Johnson, right?
THANKS, AGAIN, everyone!! John
----------From: LFREIDA15@[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 8:48 PMTo: spiff@; AquaBetty@; rbright4@Subject: Re: Purnell Mosely
Hi Betty,Rose.John:
Sending info from 1880 and 1900 Census DE
1880 West Dover, all b in DE, Parents too.
Purnell Mosley head, age 34, Eliza wife, age 33, John son, age 8, Lydia Adau, age 7, Sarah L, dau age 5, Charoltt dau, age 4, Levi son, age 1.
1900 Census DE family #32 All b DE Parents too, except last entry
Purnell P Mosley head, b May 1844, age 56, Eliza wife, b March 1848 age 52,married 29 years, mother of 11, 11 living. Levi son, b Oct 1879, age 20,Ellen dau, b Aug 1880, age 19, Rebecca dau, b June 1883, age 17, Wingate son,b May 1886, age 14, Emma dau, b Jun 1887, age 12, Thomas son, b July 1890,age 9, Alfred son, b Aug 1891, age 8.
Also last entry is Annie Mosley M-law, b Dec 1813, age 86, WD m 22 years,mother of 1, 1 living, b in PA, Parents b in DE.
1900 Census Purnell P Mosley is the only one w/middle initial.Like I said these Mosley families make me dizzy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Lorraine
Subj: RE: John, Purnel & Wingate MOSLEYDate: 98-12-27 22:59:22 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)')
Hi, Lorraine. Can't remember if I forwarded a copy of this to you after receiving it from Betty & Ray Terry in November, but here it is again. I was just studying the data, and entering it into my FTM.
They have clarified the discrepancy between the 1871 date and the 10 Oct 1875 date for Purnell's marriage, but now I wonder who the Purnell who married Mary L. Mosely in 1875 is??
I have a total of FOUR different Purnell Moselys in my FTM. Three are in one branch:
1. Purnell Mosely (b. ca. 1820) m. Rebecca Miller (b. ca. 1822)
Their son: 2. Purnell Mosely (b. ca. 1852/3) m. Susan Sammons (b. ca. 1858) (m. 10 Oct 1875).
Great-grandson of the first Purnell above (Grandson of Joseph C. Mosely) (Son of Andrew Mosely): 3. Purnell Mosely (b. unknown, died 1918) m. Unknown
The fourth Purnell is son of Wingate & Nancy Mosely: 4. Purnell P. Mosely (b. May 1844) m. Elizabeth "Eliza" Jane Johnson (b. Mar 1848) (m. 1871)
SO WHO IS THE PURNELL WHO MARRIED MARY L. MOSELY IN 1875?? It doesn't seem that it can be any of the above, unless #1 re-married.
------------------------
ALSO: Who is the Isaac Sammons (husband of Elizabeth Ridgway) who is listed as father of Susan Sammons, bride of #2 Purnell?? I have a total of FIVE Isaac Sammons', four from one branch:
1. Isaac Sammons, Sr. (b. 1800) m1st. Pamela Coursey (married 18 Dec 1819) m2nd. Esther Handsey (married 1830) m3rd. Prudence Argo (married ca. 1850)
Isaac Sr & third wife Prudence's son: 2. Isaac Sammons, Jr. (b. May 1873) m. Agnes M. Clark
Grandson of first Isaac above (Son of Nehemiah Morris Sammons): 3. Isaac S. Sammons (b. Oct 1867) m. Rebecca A. _______
Son of Isaac S. & Rebecca (Great-grandson of first Isaac above): 4. Isaac Sammons (b. 1913) m. Unknown
Son of John Sammons & Elizabeth _______: 5. Isaac Sammons (b. Unknown) (his sister Sarah was b. 1839 and married Samuel Loatman Sr.)
SO WHO IS THE ISAAC SAMMONS WHO MARRIED ELIZABETH RIDGWAY, AND HAD A DAUGHTER SUSAN BORN CA. 1858??
-----------------------------
In the section that mentions Wingate Mosely (son of Purnell P.) married Clara Jackson, why are Clara Jackson's parents' names listed as DURHAM instead of JACKSON?
-----------------------------
WHO IS THIS?:
"MOSELY, John W. died 26 Apr 1889 at Pearsons Corner, Kent, DE, age 70 yrs. Race Moor, sex M. Parents John & Betsey Mosely. Ref 1889 Folder 5A, Kent Co. death records."
---------------------------------
WHICH PURNELL IS THIS?:
"MOSLEY, Purnell died 22 Jun 1889 New Castle Co, DE. 1889 Folder 18, reel 36, RG 1500, Del Archives 9/97. Age 45. Color black, birthplace unknown, residence Appoquinamink Hundred, occupation preacher, married, male, nation of parents unknown. Cause of death pneumonia. Signed T.A. Enos, MD 1 Oct 1889, residence Townsend, DE. Note: a second death certificate was issued with death date 19 June 1889."
-----------------------------
WHICH PURNELL IS THIS?:
"MOSLEY, Purnell P. (T?) Permission to remove body from Philadelphia, Pa to Cheswold, DE 1903 folder 5A, reel 93, RG 1500 Dover Archives. Phila. Health Dept #6982. Cert dated 30 Sep 1903 (not known if this is death date. Recorded in Kent Co 28 Dec 1903. Colored, age 8(4?), died 1/28(?), no parents listed. Born Del. Cancer of rectum. Res Phila, 519 So 9th St. Undertaker H. L. (?)"
-------------------------------
Betty & Ray: In regard to your question:
"Please provide the ancestry of Purnel's wife, Eliza Jane Johnson and thesource(s) used to document it and the other children of Purnel and Eliza: 7. Alfred P., Sr. 8. Ellen 9. Emma 10. Rebecca 11. Thomas Burton"
...I will forward a message from Lorraine, right after I send this one, which will answer some of this. (Message will be entitled "Purnell Mosely, etc")
--------------------------------
Lorraine (and Betty & Ray & Rose), I realize you may not know the answers to these questions, but I just listed them also to confirm what is unknown at this point, in case I'm missing something that is obvious here or somewhere else.
THANKS, (everyone), for all your help!
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!
John
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 2:54 AMTo: spiff@Subject: John, Purnel & Wingate MOSLEY
We have the following in our files, taken from the marriage and death recordson file at Dover:
Groom: MOSLEY, Purnel no further info in record Bride: MOSLEY, Mary L. Place: Date: 1875 Minister: C.W. Huntington Source: Kent Co. Marriages (X) Reference: Vol 90, p 102, Kent Co. Marriages
Groom: MOSLEY, Purnell age 22, color M, b Del, Res East Dover Hundred,farmer Bride: SAMMONS, Susan age 17, color M, b Del, Res Dover Hundred (cert says Salmons) Place: County: Kent Date: 10 Oct 1875 Cert date: 7 Jan 1897 Regis date: 31 Dec 1896 Minister: James H. Hope Source: Kent Co. Marriages (X) Reference: Vol 90, p 173, Kent Co. Marriages Groom's Parents: Purnell Mosley & Rebecca Miller, b Frederica, Del. Bride's Parents: Issac Salmons & Elizabeth Ridgway, b Sussex Co. -------------
It appears we erred--assigning the marriage date for MOSLEY, Purnell andSAMMONS, Susan to Purnel and Eliza.
-------------
Groom: MOSELY, Winket age 21, brown, b Cheswold, res Camden, DE Bride: SMITH, Ida age 18, brown, b Kantabery, DE, res same Place: City of Wilmington, New Castle Co. (marriage) Date: 19 Jun 1894 Minister: M. Johnson Source: License, X Return Reference: Vol 72, p 86, Kent Co. Marriages (license 18 Jun, 1894) Groom's parents: Eferens (sic) Moseley, b Cheswold & Carilorn (sic) Green, b Dover Bride's parents: Garriett Smith & Carsborn (Canhoin, Carsloin??) Fisher Witnesses: R. Johnson, Amelia Moseley, Lizzie Smith
Groom: MOSLEY, Wingate looked at folder Bride: JACKSON, Clara 9/97. No more info. Place: Kent Co., Del Lib Mosley Durham, Date: 4 June 1908 widow of Pic Durham Minister: says these are her parents. Reference: Folder 1A 1908
MOSLEY, John died 5 Sep 1953 cert 2571. Father Purnel, mother Eliza Johnson.XEROXED 9/97. The record says he was born in 1882, but the 1880 censusshows him to be 8 years old.
MOSLEY, John died 5 Sep 1953 cert 2571. Father Purnel, mother Eliza Johnson. XEROXED 9/97
MOSELY, John W. died 26 Apr 1889 at Pearsons Corner, Kent, DE, age 70 yrs.Race Moor, sex M. Parents John & Betsey Mosely. Ref 1889 Folder 5A, Kent Co.death records.
MOSLEY, Nancy died 30 Jan 1894 age 73 yrs. (b c 1821) at Dover, Kent, DE.Race N, sex F. Died from old age, widowed. Ref 1894 Folder 7C Kent Co.death records. (b c 1821, Wingate's wife was age 45-1870 census = born 1825,25-1850 census = born 1825.) This may be Wingate's wife (mother of Charles H.Mosley).
MOSLEY, Purnell died 22 Jun 1889 New Castle Co, DE. 1889 Folder 18, reel 36,RG 1500, Del Archives 9/97. Age 45. Color black, birthplace unknown,residence Appoquinamink Hundred, occupation preacher, married, male, nation ofparents unknown. Cause of death pneumonia. Signed T.A. Enos, MD 1 Oct 1889,residence Townsend, DE. Note: a second death certificate was issued with death date 19 June 1889.
MOSLEY, Purnell P. (T?) Permission to remove body from Philadelphia, Pa toCheswold, DE 1903 folder 5A, reel 93, RG 1500 Dover Archives. Phila. HealthDept #6982. Cert dated 30 Sep 1903 (not known if this is death date. Recordedin Kent Co 28 Dec 1903. Colored, age 8(4?), died 1/28(?), no parents listed.Born Del. Cancer of rectum. Res Phila, 519 So 9th St. Undertaker H. L. (?)
MOSLEY, Purnell died 16 Sep 1924 at Kent Co., Del, Age 76, certificate 2371.Birth date not known. Moor. Farmer. Born Del. Father Purnell Mosely, b Del.Mother Becky Miller, b Del. Bright's disease. Informant W.M. Carney,Dover. Buried at Fork Branch Cem 20 Sep 1924 by undertaker W.C. Pritchett.This is the Purnell who married Susan Sammons.Purnell and Becky are the ancestors of Sterling Street (10/24/97)
MOSLEY, Wingate died 4 Jan 1954 age 71 yr 7 mo at Kent Gen'l Hospital, Dover,Kent, DE. Cert 12. Male, Moorish, married, born 30 Jun 1882, Del,occupation carpenter work. Wife Ethel Mosley. Father Purnell Mosley, b Del.Mother Eliza J. Johnson, b Del. Reporter Ethel M. Mosley, Dover, Del.Coronary occlusion, ateriosclerosis, diabetes. Signed C.S. Dennis, Dover, Del4 Jan 1954. Buried 7 Jan 1954 at Fork Branch Cem, Dover, DE RFD. Funeraldirector Calvin Clark, Dover, DE. Reel 73, RG 1500 Del Archives. XEROXED9/97Lib Durham & Grace Kemps's father. Ethel (nee Mosley) is second wife.
------------
With regard to the additional children, we would not be surprised--we wererelying on present-day memories and census (1890 missing) to complete thefamily.
What is bothering us about most of the research we have published on the webpage is the lack of primary documentation. Much of what we have is derivedfrom hearsay evidence and secondary sources.
-------------Levi Mosley's age was taken from 1880 census:
1880 Federal Census, (Nat'l Archives, Wash, DC): East Dover Hundred, Kent, Delaware. sex age bornMOSELY, Purnell m 34 Del Eliza f 33 " John m 8 " Lydia A. f 7 " Sarah L. f 5 " Charlotte f 4 " Levi m 1 "
------------
Please provide the ancestry of Purnel's wife, Eliza Jane Johnson and the source(s) used to document it and the other children of Purnel and Eliza:
-----------
We will try to answer the stack of mail we have before us in the near future.Thanks for your continuing good research, interest, sharing......
B&R
Subj: RE: Purnell Mosely, etc.Date: 98-12-27 22:59:31 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
Hello, all.
Betty & Ray: In regard to your question in the other e-mail:
"Please provide the ancestry of Purnel's wife, Eliza Jane Johnson and thesource(s) used to document it and the other children of Purnel and Eliza: 7. Alfred P., Sr. 8. Ellen 9. Emma 10. Rebecca 11. Thomas Burton"
...see the 1900 census data that Lorraine has listed in the message attached below.
----------
Lorraine: There does seem to be a discrepancy with Wingate's birthdate, however. (And forgive me if this has been discussed and I forgot!)
The 1900 census data you listed gave Wingate's birthdate as May 1886, but I had him listed as born 30 Jun 1882. My source field gives a reference of an e-mail message from Betty & Ray, dated 28 Dec 1997. Betty & Ray: Can you confirm?
ALSO: Lorraine: You noted that the 1900 census record listed Annie Mosely as mother-in-law to Purnell, but how can that be? Purnell's mother in law should be a Johnson, right?
THANKS, AGAIN, everyone!! John
----------From: LFREIDA15@[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 1998 8:48 PMTo: spiff@; AquaBetty@; rbright4@
Subject: Re: Purnell Mosely
Hi Betty,Rose.John:
Sending info from 1880 and 1900 Census DE
1880 West Dover, all b in DE, Parents too.
Purnell Mosley head, age 34, Eliza wife, age 33, John son, age 8, Lydia Adau, age 7, Sarah L, dau age 5, Charoltt dau, age 4, Levi son, age 1.
1900 Census DE family #32 All b DE Parents too, except last entry
Purnell P Mosley head, b May 1844, age 56, Eliza wife, b March 1848 age 52,married 29 years, mother of 11, 11 living. Levi son, b Oct 1879, age 20,Ellen dau, b Aug 1880, age 19, Rebecca dau, b June 1883, age 17, Wingate son,b May 1886, age 14, Emma dau, b Jun 1887, age 12, Thomas son, b July 1890,age 9, Alfred son, b Aug 1891, age 8.
Also last entry is Annie Mosley M-law, b Dec 1813, age 86, WD m 22 years,mother of 1, 1 living, b in PA, Parents b in DE.
1900 Census Purnell P Mosley is the only one w/middle initial.Like I said these Mosley families make me dizzy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Lorraine
Subj: FW: 1603 landing on Eastern ShoreDate: 98-12-28 06:55:34 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'), 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), belle25@ ('Bordley, MayBelle & Sandy (belle25@)'), bennettj@ ('Carpenter, Patti Muncey (bennettj@)'), bugs@ ('Handsor, Floyd (bugs@)'), cblume6@ ('Blume, Cara (cblume6@)'), ccc47331@si- ('Counceller, Chuck (ccc47331@si-)'), cdwade@ecsu.campus. ('Wade, Cora (cdwade@ecsu.campus.)'), Chani117@ ('Peggy (Chani117@)'), DL7715@ ('Seaney, Dave (DL7715@)'), eheite@ ('Heite, Ned (eheite@)'), fritts41@ ('Winston, Dee (fritts41@)'), Hank2732@ ('Kressman, Annabelle (Hank2732@)'), hendrix@mursuky.campus. ('Hendrix, Shirley (hendrix@mursuky.campus.)'), Heritage49@ ('Marshall, Sandy Coursey (Heritage49@)'), hmuncey@ ('Muncey, Harry (hmuncey@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)'), JisOne2@ ('Jackson-Hutton, Jae (JisOne2@)'), Kenteka@ ('Morris, Ivanette (Kenteka@)'), lea@ ('Dowd, Lea (lea@)'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)'), montigre@ ('Jacobsen, Gail (montigre@)'), MPierce96@ ('Pierce, Michele (MPierce96@)'), Nanticoke9@ ('Marshall, Sandy Coursey's daughter (Nanticoke9@)'), pepper@ ('Miller, Jon (pepper@)'), psam@ ('Sammons, Preston L. (psam@)'), rbright4@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie (rbright4@)'), seaney@ccmail..il.us ('Seaney, Rod (seaney@ccmail..il.us)'), seen1@ ('Seeney, Chuck (seen1@)'), ShngSprt@ ('Firehair (Shngsprt@)'), sstreet@ ('Street, Sterling (sstreet@)'), stewardm@ ('Steward, Mollie (stewardm@)')
Hello, all. This was on the most recent posting of the Lower DelMarVa Rootsweb list, and I thought it might be of interest.... Thanks. John P.S. There's one reply posted below it.
----------From: SchulzEGS@[SMTP:SchulzEGS@]Sent: Sunday, December 27, 1998 10:46 PMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: 1603 landing on Eastern Shore
Interesting. Does anyone know this book?xxBetty Gordy Schulz
From: "Henry C. Martin" on GHOTES list:According to Nora Miller Turman's "The Eastern Shore of Virginia1603-1964" a Thomas Canner documented an account of a landing on theshore on 29 July, 1603. It goes farther to presume that otherEuropeans had been there, possibly Spanish English French or Dutch andnoted that the Spanish had a temporary settlement near Jamestownbetween 1570 and 1572.
Henry C. MartinThe Groton Family Trees
______________________________
----------From: D. Hettrick[SMTP:dhettrick@]Sent: Monday, December 28, 1998 3:38 AMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: Re: 1603 landing on Eastern Shore
Hi,
I don't know the book, but that's part of the Melungeon theory, that therewere various landings and strandings of European and perhaps more exotic crewor captured slaves who were taken in by local tribes, then chose to movefarther inland when the English settlements came in.
Diane in Seattle (where it's pouring rain & rivers are overflowing their banks)dhettrick@
Subj: Re: FW: 1603 landing on Eastern ShoreDate: 98-12-28 07:50:38 ESTFrom: eheite@ (Ned Heite)To: spiff@ (John C. Carter)CC: 104141.3670@ ('Martin, Chuck (104141.3670@)'), 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), belle25@ ('Bordley, MayBelle & Sandy (belle25@)'), bennettj@ ('Carpenter, Patti Muncey (bennettj@)'), bugs@ ('Handsor, Floyd (bugs@)')
Nora Turman was not one to go off half-cocked, so there must bedocumentation somewhere for a 1603 landing. I just haven't encountered it.However, I'll hold my opinions til I see the document.
Yes, the Spanish were in the Chesapeake during the sixteenth century,probably to a greater extent than we have documented. There is an excellentaccount of the Jesuit mission in Virginia:
Clifford M. Lewis and Albert J. LoomieThe Spanish Jesuit Missions in Virginia:1570-1572University of North Carolina Press, 1953
For a good survey of the pre-Jamestown European settlement of thesoutheastern United States, see:
Charles Hudson and Carmen Chaves Tesser, editorsThe Forgotten Centuries: Indians and Europeans in the American South, 1521-1704University of Georgia Press, 1994
There is a huge Iberian element in the history of the southeastern UnitedStates, and in the "racial" folklore of the region. Some of the settlementswere quite permanent, and had undoubtedly wide influence among the nativepopulation. Stanley South has done considerable research into the Spanishsettlements in South Carolina, notably Santa Elena.
We must be careful, however, to pick and choose our sources on the basis ofreliability.
_____ ___(_____) |Baby the\ MERRY CHRISTMAS!! |1969 Land\__===_ | ___Rover ___|o |_/ . \______/ . ||__________________________________________\_/________\_/_____Ned Heite, Camden, DE
Subj: Re: FW: 1603 landing on Eastern ShoreDate: 98-12-28 10:16:13 ESTFrom: ShngSprtBCC: AquaBetty
Not familiar with the book, and let's not re-hash the Melungeon theories.
But, common sense, reason, and records in Seville, Wales, England,Holland, Barbados--ad infinitum, record many visits.
Vikings are documented to having settlements as far south as the lower Hudson River Valley---circa 1100
Thomas Durant, owner of a fishing fleet out of Dorchester, England, plied the eastern seaboard--- time period---late 1400s, early 1500s.
I think it was the Spanish sailor, Juan pardo, 1505, referring to area now called SC, made record of the Native People he found there--calling them the "Vihidi", the English by early 1600s called them PeeDee.
Madoc, Prince of Wales, youngest son, and no prospects, brought 3 fleets here in the 1200 period. His second fleet was financed by the refugee Jews of York, who came with, of course. And were left behind, as were many who sailed with Madoc. One group --fleet # not in my notes---had members who made it as far inland as the Mississippi River Delta. One group in the area of where Md/PA/ Jersey, are now.
latest map to show settlements is a 1715 map at NC Archives which has "Welsh Indians" marked on the area that is roughly north NC, southern VA. Mannekin Town in VA always had the history of Jewish refugees.
I have long felt, run across some scholars who discussed, had the same idea---that Adair's hang up on lost tribe, etc came from the oral tradtions of these remnant peoples. Adair's work gets short shift, I feel, due to others getting all hung up on the "Jewish question"--
Dr. Francis Jennings, Prof Emeritus of the Newberry, considered by many to be the father of Native American Studies in this country, stated flatly he has come to feel/believe, the Roanokes DID head south, and that many coastal tribes do in truth hold the descendants of the Peoples left here by Raleigh and circumstances.
That there would've been others, less known, perhaps of little to no record, is a given. Winds, water and travel are variables today with technology---how many of us, even with a paper trail society, have been places, done things, and no one on earth knew it, or even knows it now???
A 10 minute post on a subject that has taken years of work and study.
Firheair, needing coffee.
The algonquian language is littered with Welsh words, the Madoag Indians, firece fighters, pushed westward,
For anyone to think no one ever came here is far fetched.
To think native People sat in the woods, or on a mountain reflecting---is idiocy. An archaeologist once said to me "Your People are not that unique---we have found what you claim to be "your" medicine wheel all over the globe, among many cultures".
Mouthy me just smiled, patted his arm and said---"Of course, and just how do you figure it got around so far, who took it with them???Subj: RE: Cowards & RobinsonsDate: 98-12-29 19:41:47 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Lorraine. Thanks for the info and clarification.
I only have one question:
1. Who was the Joseph Carney who married Rebecca Robinson? How was he connected with the other Carneys?
(I already know that the Harvey Carney who married Susan Robinson was a son of Joseph Carney, 1854-1935, and Mary Dean Carney).
Thanks! John
----------From: LFREIDA15@[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Monday, December 28, 1998 12:14 PMTo: AquaBetty@; spiff@Subject: Re: Coward
Hi Betty and Ray, John
I sure got that message messed up. I'm going to try again
Thomas and Mahala Ridgway Johnson had these children:
James Brady Johnson ( some family members say Byron is the middle name ) m Alice Dickinson from MD
Thomas Johnson Jr ( when he died record indicated he was single)
Pricilla Johnson m John Clayton Robinson ( always called Clayton)
Sally Johnson m Ephriam Mosley
Lydia A Johnson m George Brown ( Mahala was living w/dau Lydia andhusband in the 1900 census listed as m-i-law) George Brown was theinformant named on n Mahala Ridgway Johnson's death certificate.
Frank Johnson m Mary Liz ( not sure of her maiden name )
Charles Johnson m Lydia Coward ( Rose's grandparents)
Clara Johnson m John Mosley
---------
John Clayton Robinson m Pricilla Johnson their children were:
Lydia Robinson m 1 Edward Coward, then 2 unknown Makie ( LYDIA always livedin DE and is buried in Smyrna De)
Thomas Robinson NM lived in (DE then Chester Pa)
Clayton Robinson no known wife (lived in DE then AC NJ for years)
Charles Robinson m Pricilla Kellum from DE lived in Chester PA
Rebecca Robinson m Joseph Carney (lived in De and Chester PA)
Susan Robinson m Harvey Carney (lived in DE)
John Henry Robinson m Isabella Driggus ( lived in DE and Bridgeton NJ)
Elwood Robinson died at age five in DE
James Brady Robinson ( info from family I have found no other informationon him yet) Betty I'm having a hard time getting records on some members of this RobinsonFamily . I got a copy of the John Henry and Isabella Driggus Robinson FamilyBible, they had some info on his brothers and sisters but not all of them, andthe scraps are coming slow. When I get my paper files of this family on thecomputer Iwill forward what I have.
lorraine
Subj: RE: CowardDate: 98-12-29 19:42:02 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Betty & Ray. Lorraine is the "expert" on these families. All I know about them I got from her. But you already have her reply now, too. Thanks. John
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Sunday, December 27, 1998 10:19 PMTo: spiff@; LFREIDA15@Subject: Re: Coward
In a message dated 98-12-27 20:46:48 EST, you write:
>
Please tell us how it should be. We currently show Edward Coward m toPriscillaRobinson, no children and
John Clayton Robinson m Pricilla Johnson, no daughter Lydia.
Lorraine says "Edward Coward he mLydia Robinson, dau of John Clayton and Pricilla Johnson Robinson."
B&R
.
Subj: RE: Morgan surnameDate: 98-12-30 21:37:03 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: bmorg@ ('Roland Morgan')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'), eheite@ ('Heite, Ned (eheite@)'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn (JACKLYN001@)'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)'), rbright4@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie (rbright4@)'), seen1@ ('Seeney, Chuck (seen1@)')
Hi, Roland. This is definitely interesting, and there may eventually wind up being a connection between our Morgan lines, but I don't think it will be as simple (unfortunately) as this John Morgan being the same as my John Morgan. If Marmaduke Morgan was getting a land grant in 1744 and died in 1775, I think it would be safe to roughly estimate his son John's birthdate as being somewhere around the 1744 period. However, my g-g-g-grandmother Catherine Morgan Dean Carney, daughter of "my" John Morgan, was born in 1833, nearly 100 years later. I think it's pretty safe to say that these are two different John Morgans. :-) Of course, there still exists the possibility of a connection; it would just have to be a generation or two further apart. Where did your Morgans live? Mine were from Kent County as far back as has been determined. If yours were also from Kent County, what district, or "hundred" did they live in? I am also cc'ing some other researchers/cousins who are descended from or interested in the Morgans that I'm descended from. Thanks for keeping the old message and thinking of me again!! It is much appreciated. John C. Carter spiff@ St. Petersburg, FL
----------From: Roland Morgan[SMTP:bmorg@]Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 11:13 AMTo: spiff@Subject: RE(2): Morgan and Dean surnames
John I was doing some cleaning out of my old e-mails and ran across this message from back in March. In May I went back to Delaware to the archives and was able to trace my Morgan line back to Marmaduke Morgan who got a land grant in 1744 and died in 1775. Among his listed children was a John Morgan. My GGG Grandfather was another son Evan. If this fits I'd like to get your John Morgan line.Thanks Roland Morgan
----- Original Message ------- From: "John C. Carter" -- To: "'Roland Morgan'" -- Subject: RE: Morgan and Dean surnames-- Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:22:43 -0500
Hi, Roland. Wow, so sorry to be so late in responding to your e-mail message. Believe me, it is not from lack of interest. I have been so busy, and I receive so many genealogy messages, it is hard to keep up. Anyway, your Morgan and Dean individuals do not sound familiar. My Morgan line descends from John Morgan of Kent County, DE. I'm not sure of his dates, but his daughter Catherine (my great-great-great-grandmother) was born 27 Dec 1833. As for my Dean line(s), I actually have two (possibly three!) and the first two are also from Kent County, DE, and both connect back together and descend from James Dean, who died about 1787. His son Jesse Dean Sr. was born about 1748 and was my gr-gr-gr-gr-gr-grandfather by each of two different children. The third (possible) Dean line is from Caroline or Dorchester County, Maryland, just across the border from Kent Co, DE. I will keep you in mind for any possible connections. Thanks! JCC
----------From: Roland Morgan[SMTP:bmorg@]Sent: Sunday, February 15, 1998 4:11 PMTo: SPIFF@Subject: Morgan and Dean surnames
John I picked up on your interest in the Morgan and Dean names from the DelMar area. I have both
in my tree. A Bertha Voss Dean was the daughter of John Voss and Mollie E. Morgan. Mollie was born
7/23/1868 and was the sister of my grandfather Wilbert Morgan of Farmington Del. I have further info on the Morgan family if this is your connection.Would you please forward me any e-mail hits that you get on the Morgan name and I'll do the same
for you.Good LuckRoland MorganLittle Rock, ARbmorg@Roland Morganbmorg@
Subj: RE: FW: Wingate Mosley birth date discrepancyDate: 99-01-12 20:34:24 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Betty & Ray. Here's Lorraine's response, for your info. (I haven't had a chance to go over any of this yet....) Thanks! John
----------From: LFREIDA15@[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Monday, January 11, 1999 10:30 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: FW: Wingate Mosley birth date discrepancy
Hi John,
Sorry but I don't have anything else on Wingate after the 1900 census, I hadnoticed the discrepancy on the dates, however Aqua Betty had made note of itunder the decendants of Wingate and Clara , on their web site. She noted theconflict w/Burton and his brother John 2 Aug 1882 and Wingate 30 Jun 1882.
Tell Evelyn and Burt Hi, and really count their blessings. Have fun andreally enjoy their stay. We haven't had temperatures above freezing for days,the ground is covered w/snow, Icicles on the house Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Talk to you later,
Lorraine.
Subj: Purnell Mosley and other Mosley MadnessDate: 99-01-18 14:45:49 ESTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@, LFREIDA 15
Hi John & Lorraine,
We received the following last Sept (slightly modified):
From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 1998 11:21 PMTo: 'Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)'
You mentioned that Sarah Mosely Carney (William's wife) was shown in the household (along with William) of her parents, Purnell & Rebecca Mosely in the 1860 census.
Does this Purnell Mosely have any connection to the Purnell Mosely who was Rose/Sweetsie's husband's ancestor?
I show Raymond/"Jimmy Flicker's" ancestor Purnell Mosely to be married to Elizabeth "Liza J" Johnson (grandparents of Georgianna Mosely Ridgeway, Raymond/"Jimmy Flicker's" mother), according to my notes from Rose/Sweetsie.
I also show another Purnell Mosely (d. 1918) to be the son of Andrew Mosely (1877-1944) and Angea Bell Coker (1882-1937).
-------------
Question: can you ID each of the Purnells in the following census records or ampilfy on or object to the comments we make below?
--------------
1850 Federal Census (Nat’l Archives, Wash, DC): Dover Hundred, Kent County, Del. Family 1310
MOSELEY John age 35 farmer Sally 35 Mary 11 Isaac 9 Lina 5 ALL B DEL Josephine 3 Comfort 2 Purnell 80
We have not heard of a Purnell Mosley b c 1770. And how is this family of John's connected to us?
---------------
1860 Federal Census Roll 800, (Nat’l Archives, Wash, DC) Murderkill Hundred, Kent Co, DE. Family 1739
MOSELY, Purnell m age 40 farmer Rebecca f 38 Alexander m 21 laborer Hester A. f 18 ALL B DEL Myles (?) m 16 Joseph m 14 Purnell m 8 Anne (?) f 4 Philip m 2 William Carney m 23 laborer Sarah Carney f 19 (wife??)
Purnell Mosley married Rebecca Miller. This is Sterling Street's ancestor.
Do you have a better reading for MYLES? Could this be MORRIS? And is Anne really Mary Anne? A Mary about the same age shows up in a later census, but not an Anne. How many Philip Mosleys have you found?
-------------
1860 Census vol. Federal Census
(Info from Stirling Street 10/24/97 -- he scanned fiche)
Age MOSELY, Wingate 40 Nancy 37 James 16 Purnell 12 Ephram 8 ALL B DEL Nancy 6 Harriett 4 Wingate 2
We know this Purnell is ancestor to Lib Durham and Grace Kemp. Wingate age 2 is Wingate Burton Mosley who died about 1952.
Who did James marry?Is this the Ephraim who married Caroline GreeWho did Nancy marry?Who did Harriet marry?
---------------
1870 Federal Census Roll 119, (Nat’l Archives, Wash, DC): Frederica, Milford Hundred, Kent Co, DE. Family 135. MOSLEY, Morris m age 31, farmer, Caroline f age 25 keeping house Enoch D. m 3 Lucinda f 10/12 Philip H. m 11 ALL B DEL Mary J. f 13 Jacob m 8 Fairnet?Purnel? m 18 farmhand
Does the change in ages of the children mean that Morris and Caroline have had children Enoch and Lucinda and that Morris' siblings Philip, Mary and Jacob are living with him, as well as brother Fairnet/Purnel (the writing was difficult to decipher).
Do you know who the children married?
--------------
1880 Federal Census, Roll , page (Nat’l Archives, Wash, DC): East Dover Hundred, Kent, Delaware.
sex age MOSELY, Purnell m 34 Eliza f 33 John m 8 ALL B DEL Lydia A. f 7 Sarah L. f 5 Charlotte f 4 Levi m 1 Purnell Mosley m Eliza Johnson. Again, ancestor of Lib Durham & Grace Kemp.
Do you have the spouses for Sarah Liz, Emma, Thomas Burton, Alfred P., Rebecca (last 4 not yet born in 1880)?
--------------
1870 Federal Census Roll 119, page (Nat’l Archives, Wash, DC) Frederica, Milford Hundred, Kent Co, DE. Family 134.
MOSLEY, Alexander m age 35, farmhand Rebecca MOSELY f age 52 keeping house David m 5 ALL B DEL Levi m 3
Appears to be Morris' brother Alexander and their mother, Rebecca, and their brothers David and Levi. Purnell prob died 1867-1870.
Do you know if David and Levi married?
---------------
Going over this vast stack of info from many different families. When we are finished, the station will have been reached and peace shall be with us forevermore!!
B&R
Subj: Elisha Mosley's wives and misc questionsDate: 99-01-19 01:33:46 ESTFrom: AquaBettyTo: rbright4@CC: spiff@
Hi Sweetsie & John,
Ignore the following request. We found the info further down in our dear little stack of unfinished business:
880 Federal Census, Roll , page (Nat’l Archives, Wash, DC): East Dover Hundred, Kent, Delaware.
sex age MOSELY, Purnell m 34 Eliza f 33 John m 8 ALL B DEL Lydia A. f 7 Sarah L. f 5 Charlotte f 4 Levi m 1 Purnell Mosley m Eliza Johnson. Again, ancestor of Lib Durham & Grace Kemp.
Do you have the spouses for Sarah Liz, Emma, Thomas Burton, Alfred P., Rebecca (last 4 not yet born in 1880)? IGNORE
--------------
NOW, UN-IGNORE THE REST:
Sweetsie, please clear up a conflict in names for us. The messages you sent 5/13 and 9/23 report two different 1st wives for Elisha Mosley. Which is correct?
Date: 98-05-13 00:26:09 EDTFrom: rbright4@ (Rose Marie Ridgeway)To: AquaBetty@
3. Elisha Mosley md. (his school teacher first) #1. Emma Durham - b. 1894 - d. 1933 (No Children) #2 . Dorothy Miller - b. Feb 22, 1919 - d. Feb 1982 De. (4 children) Children: Levi "Buster" Mosley Elisha "Lash" Mosley, Jr. Yvonne Mosley Elsie Mosley
----------------
From: rbright4To: lrainbow1@Subject: Re: Genealogy RecordsDate: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:56:07 +0000
4. Elisha Mosley md. #1. School Teacher/ Dunning #2.Dorothy Miller
----------
Lib Durham of Dover told us that Charlotte Mosley, dau of Purnell and Eliza, married Charles Johnson from Philadelphia. He worked as a waiter.
---------
Lib Durham also told us that her father, Wingate Burton Mosley, married 1) ClaraFrances Jackson and 2) Ethel Mosley. You show him marrying Nancy Kimmey. We believe this is incorrect. Please check.
----------
You show Purnell & Eliza's daughter Rebecca marrying Henry Durham. Is this the son of Hewitt and Angelica Songo Durham?
----------
We are also in the dark about Sylvester Jack/Ridgway and Tillman Jack/Ridgway.Have not see Jack used before. What do you make of it? John mentioned Sylvester's 3 marriages and 11 children. Would you spell this out for us please?
B&R
Subj: RE: obituariesDate: 99-01-28 22:52:09 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: bugs@ ('bugs@'), eheite@ ('eheite@'),
Hello, all. I'm not the one, either (descended from ancestor in Michigan), but the brother of one of my ancestors did emigrate there. In fact, this topic (emigration to Michigan) was the subject of a group e-mail I started but never finished. Actually, it's still in my Inbox, dated October 29th, waiting to be completed (along with several others, as well as unanswered messages I need to reply to some of you on). My house is under contract, and I'm house-hunting (had planned to move to NC, but that's on hold for now), so I apologize for not responding as much as I should. Best wishes to everyone, and I hope to get busy with genealogy again soon!! John
Subj: RE: Deans & MillersDate: 99-01-30 08:10:35 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: c.hall@csu-e.csuohio.edu (jeanie hall), crossd@ (Dellinger),
Greetings, Dick, and welcome! I found your post to be very interesting!
In my genealogy program, (Family Tree Maker), I have an entry for Debrix Miller's family, including son Robert, but did not have a spouse listed for him.
As for the Deans, I'm descended from two different branches, which tie back together into the same one, being descended from James Dean (d. ca. 1787) and Sarah Hewes (d. aft. 1793). I'm very curious as to this James & Dena Dean, as I have no record of them, although the location is precise for there being a probable connection.
Lynn Jackson and Betty Terry, both on this list, are also descended from the Deans, and have done extensive research. If you haven't been in touch with either of them yet, I would first suggest a visit to each of their websites, which both have Dean information.
Betty & Ray Terry's website:
Lynn Jackson's website:
Other members of this list have websites as well, and I must apologize for not being as familiar with them. The slowness of my computer significantly restricts my exploration of the web.
Anyway, I hope this is of help to you, and good luck to you!! Let me know if I can share anything else with you. Your probable cousin, John
----------From: dick&barb klopshinske[SMTP:dickbarb@]Sent: Saturday, January 30, 1999 12:36 AMTo: DEBORAH P UNGER; jim bissell; cara blume; maybelle bordley; john carter; chuck Subject: Re: obituaries
Hello to all;I am new to the group and only in the past year have learned of my connections to the communities in Delaware. I have corresponded with several of the group, but thought I should introduce myself. I am also one of those that have Michigan connections, although to my knowlege, none in Berrien County. My GG grandparents Robert Miller and Mary Ann Dean came to Wayne County Michigan around 1862. Prior to this time they were in the DuckBrook Hundred, Kent County. It is probable that Robert is the son of Deberix Miller, and the death record for Mary Ann (1880) note her parents as James Dean and Dena Dean. James Dean and family are found in the earlier cencus records in Little Creek Hundred, but I have not found his parents. Iwould be interested in corresponding with anybody with connections toeither of these families.Thanks,
Dick Klopshinske183 Rainbow Drive #8395Livingston, TX 77399-1083
----------> From: Ned Heite > To: DEBORAH P UNGER ; jim bissell> Subject: obituaries> Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 6:05 PM> > Some of the people who joined the Adventist church near Cheswold later> emigrated to Michigan, the heartland of that faith. At least one of our> colleagues on this list is descended from such emigrants.> > With those emigrations in mind, I'm forwarding this tidbit that appearedin> two of the local genealogy lists today:> > To: DESUSSEX-L@> > I just discovered an obituary index that I didn't know existed. The> James White Library on the campus of Andrews University in Berrien> Springs, Michigan has an on-line version of the Seventh Day Adventist> Periodical Index. Included as part of this index are obituaries from> Seventh Day Adventist periodical literature.> The address is > or for more information about the library itself, try> > > Happy hunting, Ardie> > --------------------------------> Ned Heite, Camden, DE > >
Subj: RE: QuestionsDate: 99-01-31 22:27:36 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@'), rbright4@ (rbright4@)
Hi, Betty & Ray & Rose. I received the message, and just wanted to let you know that I am so far behind with the serious genealogy e-mails, that I still have 37 unread messages, and another 30 or so that have been opened but need to be replied to. Things are very hectic around here, and I'm not sure when I'll be caught up. If I spot messages that I can answer quickly, I do so, but ones that require research I just have to postpone. I will reply as soon as possible. Thanks! John
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Sunday, January 31, 1999 9:56 PMTo: rbright4@Cc: spiff@Subject: Questions
Hi,
Got a few questions.
1. John Mosley m Clara Johnson. His mother was Eliza Jane Johnson. You showBurton & Martha Johnson as parents.
We have a Burton Johnson b abt 1799 in our database, wife Sarah Mosley, witha child Elizabeth who married John M. Mosley b abt 1834/40 and had children--
Elisha b 1862 m Georgianna CarneyLucindaNancy H. b 1870ReturnCordelia "Deli" b 1879 m James Robert CarneyLavinia "Vennie"AlbertSarah "Sally" m William Morris "Mike" CarneyMary
Are there two Burton Johnsons?
2. The children of John Mosley and Clara Johnson that you have and that wehave are completely different. We got ours from John Carter when he sent aGEDCOM file to us via floppy disk.
You Have:
LeroyTediElvieLutherJohnRaymondWilbertAnnaRose
We have:
Lydia AnneEmmaSarah Elizabeth
We don't have any proof at all, just the listing in the GEDCOM file. Do youhave proof of yours?
3. Hall Stone Martha Harmon Barbara Mae b. dec. 6, 1926 b. Aug 30, 1963 d. May 12, 1992 d. Apr 26, 1988
Do you know if these should be listed as Martha Harmon Hall and Barbara MaeHall?
4. The Cedar Hill list attachment was all in HTML code, the language of theweb. When we copied all of your attachment and pasted it to a new web page onthe Geocities server, the result was nearly a complete web page. We changedindenting and adder an index.
Whatever you did when you created the e-mail with attachment, do it again ifyou have more lists to send!! Makes it all go much faster and easier.
5. ANSWER: Done!
6. On the list of separate stones you list the following, but we don't knowson of who, etc. Should there be a tie-in to other stones in the cemetery?
Lewis D. Ridgeway, Sr. (Son)Christina Esther Ridgeway (dau)James H. Ridgway (Uncle)
7. On the Family Summary sheet for Ancestors of Mary Mosley b 1874, marriedElisha Mosley, you show a son named "Burton Jr. Mosley"
Is Jr. his middle name?
8. On the sheet for Ancestors of Robert James Carney (or James Robert), youshow his mother Harriet's dates as b 10 Aug 1851 d 22 Dec 1950. Was she 99years old?
9. On the sheet for Ancestors of David W. Mosley, Sr., you show hisgrandparents as Purnell Mosley and Rebecca Mosley. Rebecca was a Miller.There are marriage records for some of their children in the Archives whichname her as Rebecca Miller.
10. On the sheet for Ancestors of Joseph H. Kimmey, you show his mother as"Elizabeth 'Zippy' (Kimmey) Mosley" -- do you know why her nickname wasZippy and what does the (Kimmey) mean?
11. On the Family Summary sheet for Joseph H. Kimmer and Nancy H. Mosley,their child 2 is listed "Mildred "Carney/Corney" Kimmey. What does"Carney/Corney" mean?
12. On the sheet for Ancestors of Elisha Mosley (b 16 Jan 1906) you showGeorgianna Corney's mother as Sarah "Sallie" Carney Mosley, b 1841 d 1949 --was she 108 years old?
Hope this is not too much to digest at one time. Thanks for all the work youare doing to help us!
B&R
Subj: RE: MessageDate: 99-02-04 06:16:52 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Sure, no problem. I also forwarded your message to Lorraine, since it appears you forgot to cc her in the message. Thanks, John
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 12:52 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Debbie Unger's system crashed
Hi John,
Please forward the following message to Debbie.
"We plan to visit Ann Lawson in Philadelphia around Feb 11, 12 or 13 to getthe picture of Nehemiah Durham for Debbie and ourselves and then the BridgetonCenter. Lorraine, you had mentioned giving us copies of some of the recordsof your family. We could do that if you are available then. Until we firm upthe date with Ann Lawson we won't be able to set a time with you."
Thanks.
B
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: Percy/Hilda Darling born around turn of 19th centuryDate: 99-02-14 20:44:10 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mardah@ ('Mardah@'), Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello. To answer your question, no, I am not familiar with Hilda Dean (aka Hilda Ethel Taylor) who married Percy Darling. However, I am forwarding your question along to a research group which contains a few other researchers working on Dean lines. Perhaps someone will recognize these names. Sorry I wasn't of more help, John C. Carter spiff@ St. Petersburg, FL
----------From: Mardah@[SMTP:Mardah@]Sent: Sunday, February 14, 1999 7:07 PMTo: SPIFF@Subject: Percy/Hilda Darling born around turn of 19th century
Are you familiar with the names Percy and Hilda Darling. Hilda was Hilda Dean(sometimes Hilda Ethel Taylor)?
Please check your ancestral charts and if so, I would appreciate your lettingme know.Thanks
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: More Clark infoDate: 99-02-18 23:12:01 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello. According to my records, there was a Nathaniel Clark who was a brother of Julia Clark and Wit Clark. Julia Clark was born 1843 in Indian River, Sussex Co, but I do not have dates on Nathaniel or Wit. Julia Clark married Robert Morris, (b. 1838 in Laurel, Sussex Co), and they had children Carlos, George R., Oscar Burton, Emma, Clara Preston, Steven, Anna, and Mary Agnes. I have heard the story, through a couple of different sources in the family, that the mother (name unknown) of Julia, Wit & Nathaniel was a "heathen," an Indian woman who used to come riding bareback on a horse, and all the children were afraid of her, and thought her a witch. One day she was found dead of a broken back in the woods, having been apparently thrown from the horse. One cousin had even told me that she'd often heard this story while growing up, and had thought the word "heathen" (which was apparently often used to describe this woman) meant a very bad or evil thing, since she never knew what it meant otherwise. Upon becoming older, however, she found that it actually meant someone who was not a Christian, and this changed her perception of the woman of the story. It no longer meant that the woman was evil, just that she hadn't been Christianized. It would be interesting to find out this woman's name, and to possibly even find a record of her death. I'm not sure if the Nathaniel of this family is connected to the one(s) earlier mentioned. John C. Carter spiff@ St. Petersburg, FL
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: Mitsawokett List rollDate: 99-02-23 22:10:26 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'), belle25@ ('Bordley, MayBelle & Sandy (belle25@)'), bennettj@ ('Carpenter, Patti Muncey (bennettj@)'), bordleycsw@ ('Bordley, MayBelle (Alternate) (bordleycsw@)'), dart@ ('Councellor, Donna (dart@)'), dickbarb@ ('dickbarb@'), DL7715@ ('Seaney, Dave (DL7715@)'), dwfrft@ ('dwfrft@'), Hank2732@ ('Kressman, Annabelle (Hank2732@)'), hmuncey@ ('Muncey, Harry (hmuncey@)'), Kenteka@ ('Morris, Ivanette (Kenteka@)'), pepper@ ('Miller, Jon (pepper@)'), rcounsel@northland.lib.mi.us ('Counsellor, Rick (rcounsel@northland.lib.mi.us)'), seaney@ccmail..il.us ('Seaney, Rod (seaney@ccmail..il.us)'), seen1@ ('Seeney, Chuck (seen1@)'), sstreet@ ('Street, Sterling (sstreet@)'), ted4@worldnet. ('Siegel, Jeannie (ted4@worldnet.)'), WyNot22@ ('WyNot22@')CC: eheite@ ('Heite, Ned (eheite@)'), Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all.
Just a note to remind you all (and announce to those newer e-mail users) that the Mitsawokett list is up and running. (For those of you already on the list, you are cc'd only, or for those with addresses in the "To" box who have joined the list since Feb 15th, disregard).
The more members we have for the list, the more "cross-pollination" there will be for those doing research. All it takes is one message to the list, and many other researchers will be able to see your message, and can respond either individually or to the group/list again.
And those of you who aren't as active with research, you can join just to see the messages/discussions if you'd like. There haven't been many discussions so far, but some researchers have been busy, on trips, or just waiting until we get maximum membership before posting discussion openers.
Below is a list of those who have already signed up (Ned: I've filled in names where you didn't know the address-owner), and down below that is a message which explains how to join the list.
If anyone has any questions, please contact Ned Heite (eheite@) or myself (spiff@).
Hope to see you on the list soon! Thanks, John
----------From: Mitsawokett@[SMTP:Mitsawokett@]Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 5:57 AMTo: Mitsawokett@Subject: [Mitsawokett] Digest Number 12
Message: 1 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:30:37 -0500 From: eheite@ (Ned Heite)Subject: Subscribers
Now that we have thirty enrolled, the list should be ready to roll. Thefollowing is the roster as it stands today. You'll notice that some namesare missing from the entries. I really feel that we should identifyourselves by names on the list, since we sometimes are transmittingpersonal data and it's comforting to know who gets it.
A word of caution, though: Whatever goes over the net can be relayed, witha flick of the wrist. Messages among this group have been passed aroundand, sometimes, misconstrued by people who aren't familiar with ourinformal and casual way of chatting with one another. So just mind what yousay, and about whom.
104141.3670@Chuck Martin aquabetty@Betty Terry bephi@Beverley Seeney-Phipps boatskul70@Terry Councilor bugs@FLOYD HANDSOR calexeditor@Deb Cavel ccc47331@si-Charles Counceller crossd@Ross & Debbie Dellinger dickbarb@Dick Klopshinske dj22256@Denise Johnson eheite@Ned Heite fourfish@Deedy Thomas-Herring fritts41@dee winston hendrix@mursuky.Shirley Hendrix Heritage49@Cassandra H. Marshall jacklyn001@ Lynn Jackson
jjackson@chapman.edu Jan Jackson jtowtoes@john moore lea@ Lea Dowd LFREIDA15@Lorraine Gregg miggest@Karen Councilor mollienj@Mollie A. Steward montigre@Gail Peterson-Masengale MPierce96@Michelle Pierce 2/1/99Nanticoke9@Celeste Marshall 2/3/99psam@Preston Sammons pwiegand@ 2/5/99ShngSprt@Sheila Firehair spiff@John C. Carter
wahoor@Rose Ridgeway
----------From: Ned Heite[SMTP:eheite@]Sent: Saturday, January 30, 1999 10:06 PMTo: DEBORAH P UNGER; jim bissell; cara blume; maybelle bordley; john carter; chuck counceller; charles h. councilor; gates councilor; james a. councilor; terry councilor; donna b. counsellor; gary counsellor; ray counsellor; "richard l. counsellor"rcounsel@northland.lib.mi.us; lea dowd; wythena fleming; lorraine gregg; jeanie hall; floyd handsor; carol hansing; shirley hendrix; INTERNET:FirehairSS@aol.; lynn jackson; jan jackson; Gail Jacobsen; jae; John Lacko (Karen); john laMont; chuck martin; Jon L. Miller Sr; harry muncey; michele pierce; rose ridgeway; preston sammons; Mervin Savoy; Piscataway; james seeney; chuck seeney; mollie steward; sterling street; Betty Terry; unknown; Dellinger; cora wade; Annabelle Kressman; Heritage49@; 'Carpenter, Patti Muncey (bennettj@)'; BHUTTON131@; fritts41@; dickbarb@Subject: The list is up
The Mitsawokett list is now functional. There are list archives, but theycan be accessed only by members. I don't know how long the archives will beheld but I would not advise depending upon them. The list owner mustapprove all new members, which means there might be a brief delay ingetting on. I am hoping that one or two more list owners will come forwardto avoid delays when I am not around. We already have one volunteer.
To subscribe to the list, go to this location:
ONElist has a graphic button that you can use on your web site for thesubscription link.
You can copy and paste the following HTML code snippet into your web page.
Click to subscribe to Mitsawokett
Archive URL
ONElist has created a URL that people can use to view the archives of ourlist. The URL is:
Also, ONElist has a graphic button that you can use on your web site forthe archives link. You can copy and paste the following HTML code snippetinto your web page.
Click to view archives of Mitsawokett
There is a digest option, which you will be able to set from the signuppage. I use the digest option on some of the lists I belong to. [Be sure NOT to check the "No Mail" option if you switch to Digest mode]. JCC
For those who are maintaining related or branch lists, like the Seeneys andthe Michigan Conselors, please feel free to forward this message around.
Ned Heite, Camden, DE
Subj: [Mitsawokett] SAR approval of John Durham Sr.Date: 99-02-26 07:04:26 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')CC: 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'), hmuncey@ ('Muncey, Harry (hmuncey@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all. Just a quick note to let anyone who's interested know that I recieved my approval on my supplemental SAR application under John Durham, Sr. (born bef. 1733, died 13 May 1788 in Little Creek Hundred, Kent Co, DE). The certificate came in the mail a few days ago. As some of you remember, John Durham Sr. was eligible for SAR membership due to his having supplied grain in 1781 toward the cause of the Revolution. If anyone is interested in the data I used, toward applying for the SAR or DAR, please let me know and I would be happy to share. Thanks! John P.S. I would like to submit one under William Concilor as well, but need to find proof that he was the father of Elijah Concilor (b. ca. 1762). This will probably not be easy, in light of all the different William Concilors that were discussed a few months ago....
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: Ernest CottDate: 99-03-04 22:37:24 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
From: "Donald W. Fisher" onb March 2, 1999 Do you know anything about Ernest Cott b. ca. 1834? In 1850 he was living in New Castle Co., not sure of 100, with the George Colbert family. Our David Councilor at 17 was living with this family at the same time, as were Mary Farmer and Benjamin Farmer. [A Farmer family came west to MI,too.]
And From: "Lynn Jackson" on March 4, 1999:Sorry, I don't see anything about an Ernest Cott in my files.Maybe somebody else can help?????
I have checked my records, and cannot find any record of an Ernest Cott, either. He was not one of the children of John D. Cott (ca. 1804-1876), but could conceivably be a nephew, although no brothers of John D. Cott have yet been identified. John C. Carter
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: Ernest/Evert Cott, etcDate: 99-03-05 07:06:53 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
From: "Donald W. Fisher" March 4, 1999:Lynn and John, Would you please recheck for Evert Cott? I read the name as Ernest, but I found that the census index interprets the handwriting as Evert. I'm grasping for straws here, but sometimes that's what you have to do in figuring these things out.
Hi, Don. Here is a complete list of the children of John D. Cott (b. ca. 1804, d. 16 Oct 1876) and Sarah Ann Dean (b. ca. 1813, d. 05 Jun 1867):
1. Catherine Cott (b. 08 Feb 1828) 2. Martin Cott (b. 13 Sep 1830) 3. Obediah Cott (b. 05 Jan 1831) 4. Levina Cott (b. 13 Mar 1833) 5. Hevarin Cott (male) (b. 08 Oct 1834) 6. William H. Cott (b. 12 Feb 1835) 7. John Wesley Cott (b. 27 May 1838) 8. Debba/Deborah Cott (b. 06 Jul 1841) 9. Rebecca Cott (my g-g-grandmother) (b. 24 Aug 1843) (recently got a photo of her, by the way!!) 10. George F. Cott (b. 27 Jun 1845) 11. Mary Elmira Cott (b. 09 May 1849)
These dates are all from the Cott family Bible, which I have in my possession.
Perhaps "Evert" was some type of phonetic corruption of Hevarin? Just guessing....
John C. Carter
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: Cotts Counsellors and DeansDate: 99-03-06 23:46:13 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
From: "Donald W. Fisher" Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1999 08:17:40 -0600
"We have no evidence that Hevarin had any association with MI, just that DE census reference...."
Hi, Don. One thing I'd meant to mention in my list of the children of John D. Cott and Sarah Ann Dean is that their son, John Wesley Cott, (and his wife, Lydia A. Dean), emigrated to Michigan ca. 1856. They settled on the border of Gratiot and Montcalm Counties, in the community of North Shade, next to Carson City. They had six children, only three of which lived beyond their teens (two daughters and a son). Neither daughter ever married. The son (John Harland Cott), married and had only one daughter. This daughter (Florence) married, but divorced before having children and never married again. She died in 1975, two years before I re-discovered this branch of the family.
At this point I feel myself going off on a tangent, but it is an interesting story, so I'll indulge....
When searching for this branch of the Cotts, I had heard stories from within the family that "six Cott brothers had moved to Carson City, Michigan and were never heard from again." This was intriguing, and since I was only 18 years old at the time of this research (1977), I was naive enough (and, as it turns out, LUCKY enough) to "try anything" when it came to genealogical research! First, I tried the obvious: call up long distance information, and ask for the number of anyone in Carson City with the last name of Cott. The operator told me there were none. Refusing defeat, I wrote a general introduction letter, explaining my connection and genealogical intentions, and then placed this letter INSIDE another letter, which I addressed to the Postmaster of Carson City, MI. Politely, I asked him if he knew of any Cotts in Carson City (who might not have a telephone), and if so, for him to please put the enclosed letter in their mailbox. This Postmaster wrote back, and told me that whereas there were currently (at that time) no Cotts in the Carson City area, at one time there HAD been. (However, it turned out that apparently only ONE of the six Cott brothers of family lore had ever lived in the Carson City area) (Turns out that John Wesley had 5 brothers in DE, including Hevarin, but it is not known if any of the others ever migrated anywhere). (the brother Obediah died at age 17). Anyway, he--the postmaster--actually went to the library and looked up the obituaries of John Wesley Cott and his wife, copied them by hand for me (photocopy machines were rare and exorbitant at that time!) and then went to the cemetery and copied down the information from the entire family's tombstones, including the last member of the family, Florence. I wrote back and thanked him wholeheartedly, but (pushy me) was still curious as to what had become of all the family's possessions, farm, etc. He wrote back again, and gave me the name and address of a lady in town who had been Florence's life-long best friend, and suggested I contact her. When I wrote to her, she was overjoyed that a relative of Florence had contacted her, although it was bittersweet since Florence had died not knowing that she had any relatives. However, Florence's friend then proceded to send me not only a WEALTH of family photographs (including the tin-type photo of Angeline L. Munce Dean that I later gave to Harry Muncey) (and a personally-inscribed photo of the family of Robert B. Dean Jr), but also the family Bible, which had come from Delaware and had apparently belonged to John Wesley's grandfather. The Bible was published in 1818, and is inscribed on the inside-front page: "John A. Cott 1839 Del John W. Cott 1856 Mich"
To clarify, there were (at least) four John Cott's in a row:
John A. Cott (ca. 1774 - 04 Jan 1854), m. Mary _____ John D. Cott (ca. 1804 - 16 Oct 1876), m. Sarah Ann Dean. John Wesley Cott (27 May 1838 - 23 Aug 1920), m. Lydia A. Dean John Harland Cott (15 May 1872 - 16 Jun 1946), m. Elsie B. Tuttle
Anyway, the moral of this digression is: Never be afraid to try ANYthing in the name of genealogy! :-) You never know when you're going to luck out. This is but one of several seemingly-miraculous coincidences during the 25-year course of my genealogical exploits (and hopefully not the last)! Good luck, John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] P.S. RE: Hevarin CottDate: 99-03-07 02:14:24 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
By the way, I just noticed in my FTM that I have a death date for Hevarin Cott as 20 May 1852, at age 17, like his brother Obediah. I cannot find the source of the date at the moment.... John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Robert Carney & Hester??Date: 99-03-07 20:40:29 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
On Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1999 03:08:57,Rose Ridgeway wrote:
"1860 Census for Dover De. has a listing on a; Greensbury Becket, age 48, Hester Becket, age 28, Perry, 14, John H. 10, George 7, Elijah 5, Peter 3. They are neighbors to Robert Carney and Hester."
Rose, you say they were neighbors to Robert Carney and Hester.... Which Robert Carney is this? I have several Robert Carneys in my file, but none married to a Hester. Thanks. John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Greensbury, Green Berry, etcDate: 99-03-08 07:09:26 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
[Ned & Don wrote]:
>One of the leading citizens of Dover in the eighteenth century wasCharles>Greenbury Ridgely. In some families, it is two words, Green Berry.
This is very interesting, so I spent a few minutes looking through thequeries on Sussex and Kent, but I didn't find this discussion. Do youhave any idea where else you might have seen it?
Hi, Don. The discussion that Ned is talking about took place on the Lower DelMarVa Roots list. (I participated in that discussion, mentioning Greensboro Ridgeway and his son, Greensbury Ridgeway). John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: Clark Puzzle Piece in Place?Date: 99-03-09 21:45:07 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
On: Sun, 07 Mar 1999 12:46:08 -0700Deborah Cavel-Greant wrote:
"I found:>>>Whittington Clark, over 44, 1820 Indian River Sx co census, M, 9 in HH
Celeste added:>>I have a Whittington Clark (no dates; parents unknown) that married Sarah>>Wright b. 1840. Sarah's parents are Warren Wright (1803-1865) and Maria>>Sockum (1808-1880). The children for Whittington and Sarah haven't been>>discovered yet.
[Deb wrote]:Then I happened to think of some information John Carter sent two/threeweeks back, which I will edit/include here;
>...there was a Nathaniel Clark who was a brother of Julia Clark and >Wit Clark. Julia Clark was born 1843 in Indian >River, Sussex Co, but I do not have dates on Nathaniel or Wit.
[Deb wrote]:Is this 'Wit' - Whittington? Almost certainly! And this also would mean this would be 'Whittington Jr.' if his sister was born 1843. So we mightpropose that at least three children for Whittington Sr and Sarah Morris are Julia, Nathaniel and Whittington Jr.
[Deb wrote]:Michele, here's a Morris marriage...
>Julia Clark married Robert Morris, (b. 1838 in Laurel, Sussex Co), and >they had children Carlos, George R., Oscar Burton, Emma, Clara Preston, >Steven, Anna, and Mary Agnes.
[Deb wrote]:John told a fascinating story about Julia, Nathaniel and Wit's mother - and if our supposition is true this would be Sarah Morris Clark...
>I have heard the story, through a couple of different sources in the >family, that the mother (name unknown) of Julia, Wit & Nathaniel was a >"heathen," an Indian woman who used to come riding bareback on a horse, >and all the children were afraid of her, and thought her a witch. One day>she was found dead of a broken back in the woods, having been apparently>thrown from the horse.
>One cousin had even told me that she'd often heard this story while >growing up, and had thought the word "heathen" (which was apparently often >used to describe this woman) meant a very bad or evil thing, since she>never knew what it meant otherwise. Upon becoming older, however, she>found that it actually meant someone who was not a Christian, and this>changed her perception of the woman of the story. It no longer meant that>the woman was evil, just that she hadn't been Christianized.
John concluded:>It would be interesting to find out this woman's name, and to possibly >even find a record of her death.
[Deb wrote]:Well, John - what do you think??_ _ _ _ _
Hi, Deb. This is very interesting, and you're doing great detective work! Of course, we need to try to find more back-up to substantiate. However, I'm confused about one thing: Perhaps I'm missing something, but based on the above material I can't make the mental connection as to how Mrs. Sarah Clark's maiden name would be Morris. Did you mean to say Wright?? Thanks. John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: Clark Puzzle Piece in Place?Date: 99-03-09 23:18:56 ESTFrom: calexeditor@ (Deborah Cavel-Greant)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@
From: Deborah Cavel-Greant
Hi John,
You said;
> Of course, we need to try to find more back-up to substantiate.
Most definitely! This is conjecture based on tidbits.
>However, I'm confused about one thing: Perhaps I'm missing something, but>based on the above material I can't make the mental connection as to how>Mrs. Sarah Clark's maiden name would be Morris. Did you mean to say>Wright??
Oh yeah...I'm good for adding 1 + 1 and coming up with 7 too! I typedMorris, when I should have typed Wright. I was thinking of Julia marryingRobert Morris. :) Glad *you're* alert! But I'm pleased that we *might* beable to put an identity to the woman on horseback. Seems a shame not toremember someone who was so 'memorable' in her own right!
Cheers,Deb
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: DEANSDate: 99-03-10 20:18:51 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
On: Mon, 8 Mar 1999 21:43:51 ESTLorraine Johnson Gregg wrote:
"All of the Deans in this area that I know of are descendants of Jesse andHester Carney Dean. Herbert Cliffs papers are basically the same as Ray andBetty's except he has: Jesse husband of Hester Carney was the son of Jessieand Elizabeth Durham and in turn Jessie husband of Elizabeth, was the son ofJames Dean and Sarah Hewes."
Then, on... Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 07:09:51 -0500 "John C. Carter" wrote
"Where did you get the info that Jesse Jr's mother was Elizabeth Durham? Shouldn't this be Rebecca _______? I don't have time to dig out all the stuff about this, but this was part of a long discussion in the group about a year or two ago." Then, on... Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 10:02:39 EST Lorraine Johnson Gregg wrote:
"Yes, I am aware of the infamous "four Jesse" debate.I was referring to Herbert Cliff's, Dean/Jackson family papers.I stated he has basically the same as Ray and Betty, except he has: etc.I was not implying that he was correct/incorrect. I only stated what is onhis papers."
- - - - -
Oops! :-) That's what happens when I try thinking too hard first thing in the morning: my brain doesn't engage! Sorry, Lorraine, you had it plain as day right there in the paragraph, and I didn't see it, even when I copied it. Thanks! John
Subj: RE: Mosley LegacyDate: 99-03-11 21:34:20 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: BraunA@ (BraunA@)CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Theo. What version of FTM are you using? I originally had the 3.0 version, but then upgraded to the 5.0 version, so I have the handbooks for both. If you happen to have version 3.0, the instructions are on pp. 359-362. If you have version 5.0 (which I believe is the newest version), the instructions are on pp. 447-449. It would take quite a while for me to explain in an e-mail how to do it, so I'm hoping you have a book. Or, is there a particular part of the process that you're getting bogged down on? Perhaps I can help with details. Also, as an alternative, it might be easier to just download it onto a diskette, and send the diskette through snail-mail. Let me know if you have more questions. Thanks! John spiff@ St. Petersburg, FL
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Thursday, March 11, 1999 1:46 PMTo: BraunA@; spiff@Subject: Re: Mosley Legacy
In a message dated 99-03-11 13:29:47 EST, you write:
>
First you have to export the data from FTM. This involves creating a GEDCOM(Genealogical Data Communications) file. Once the .GED file is created, itcan be attached to e-mail.
John, can you help Theo with GEDCOM file creation from FTM?
B&R
Subj: By the way...Date: 99-03-11 21:42:50 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hello. How have you both been? Good, I hope. Things are really crazy here, preparing for my move. The next month and a half will most likely be torture! :-) Closing for the sale of my current house is April 15th, and so is the closing date for the house I'm buying. It's about 5 or 6 miles from here, and is much larger, so I'll love having the extra space. But all the work! Yuck! This house has to be completely painted on the outside, and the new house has to be painted on the inside AND outside. And it needs new carpet throughout, new vinyl floors, new baseboards, new refrigerator, new washer & dryer, etc, etc, etc....! I'll have to attend to genealogy in bits and pieces. Anyway, I wanted to say I received your large document on 3/02, but I'm not sure when I'll have a chance to go through it. Also, I wanted to ask if you're interested in an updated GEDCOM from me? It's still far from perfect, but I thought I would lay the offer out there, in case you need it. I was making really good progress with a lot of help from Lorraine and Rose a few months ago, and then started getting busy with holidays, etc. Anytime you'd like a copy, just let me know. Thanks! John
Subj: Re: By the way...Date: 99-03-11 22:12:08 ESTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
Hi, John --
We are fine except Betty's mom, who is in the final stage of Alzheimer's. She has stopped eating and drinking. We put her in the hospital two days ago for rehydration. From there she will go to a nursing home for a while, then we will have to dicide whether to let her go if she continues with her fasting. We had 2 other parents (her father, my mother) at home until they died. Betty does not want to watch her mother die.
We've been there! It's just amazing how much STUFF accumulates. It's not until the actual packing for the move that reality hits home.
The Move From Hell!
We had a friend who was one of the top mushroom men in the country at Beltsville USDA ARS, but who had suffered a crippling injury during WW II, so couldn't help with the move. His wife was an extremely capable person who could find a use for most ot the stuff, we, the unknowing, throw away. She just didn't make use of it fast enough. And she was incapable of making a decision to part with the house full of magazines, plastic bottles, glass bottles, etc., etc. Of course, hubby's enormous collection of specimens had to be kept.
Finally, their 2 sons sort of locked Mom and Dad in a back room and we went to work. A group of us worked for a week to load the SEMI their son hired, all the while sorting thru their belongings to toss 28-foot Ryder trucks-full of accumulated detritus into the county land-fill.
Yes, we'd love to receive an updated GEDCOM. If I can figure out how to split off my Terry's & Meyer's (over 2000) from Betty's lineage, we'd like to send you one of ours.A problem arises when the files are merged. At this point in time there are so many identical names in both yours and ours that it would require a considerable amount of time to merge them. We'll have to do it another way.
We met an interesting person at the Mosley Church service Feb 14. Jean Foster is a Mosley descendant. She has done some lineage work and has been in contact with Don Ahshapanek of Oklahoma, a Mosley descendant. He has done some Jack/Ridgway searches. We are trying to establish 2-way communications with him (we receive his e-mails but stuff we send to him is returned.)
Rose and Lorraine have been really helpful to us too. We had a good time meeting with them at the Bridgeton Center Feb. 13.
Take care, and good luck with the move!
Ray
Subj: Delaware GEDCOMDate: 99-03-16 00:26:11 ESTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@, LFREIDA 15, wahoor@
File: MITSA399.GED (2724391 bytes)DL Time (28800 bps): < 26 minutes
Hi, all--
Lorraine & Sweetsie--A GEDCOM file of out Delaware database is attached for your use. We know you are not expecting it, but John wanted to swap files, so we all should have the same information. There are 4770 names in it, we believe all related to Delaware. We spent some time culling the Terry-related families of Long Island. Some may have slipped thru.
If you think others in the group are interested in receiving it, let us know.
B&R
Subj: RE: Delaware GEDCOMDate: 99-03-16 22:36:16 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Wow! Caught me off guard. Thanks for the GEDCOM, although it took 40 minutes to enter my mailbox when I checked my mail. (Can you tell I am sadly in need of a new pc??) Anyway, I will try to get a GEDCOM sent to you this weekend. I had planned to go to Atlanta for the weekend, but it looks like I won't be. Will be in touch soon, John
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 12:26 AMTo: spiff@; LFREIDA15@; wahoor@Subject: Delaware GEDCOM
Hi, all--
Lorraine & Sweetsie--A GEDCOM file of out Delaware database is attached foryour use. We know you are not expecting it, but John wanted to swap files, sowe all should have the same information. There are 4770 names in it, webelieve all related to Delaware. We spent some time culling the Terry-relatedfamilies of Long Island. Some may have slipped thru.
If you think others in the group are interested in receiving it, let us know.
B&R
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: African American Civil War MemorialDate: 99-03-17 06:56:26 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all.
For those of you who may be interested, I have received updated news regarding the African American Civil War Memorial which I described to most of you in a message in December.
(For those of you unfamiliar with this subject, I have pasted my original e-mail from December below this message).
First of all, after three months of persistence in attempting to have Cornelius Ridgeway's name correctly spelled (instead of "Cornebus"), I have finally been put in touch with the correct department this last week (after speaking to the Memorial's foundation, the National Archives, and the National Park Service--all of whom are involved) to see that the name gets fixed prior to the installation of the plaques.
During the course of this journey, I had a very pleasant conversation with the president of the Memorial's foundation--a Mr. Frank Smith--who relayed to me that there will also be a type of display across from, or adjacent to, the Memorial, entitled "From Slavery to Freedom," and that this display will have a method for housing genealogies or histories of the soldiers. He invited me to submit any relevant material regarding my ancestor for inclusion in this display.
I would encourage any of the rest of you to do the same. Submissions can be directed to:
African American Civil War Memorial Freedom Foundation Attn. Mr. Frank Smith, president 1000 U St., NW Washington DC 20001
I cannot vouch for their follow-through, as it has been with great difficulty that I finally came in touch with a respondent/Mr. Smith. Two previous certified letters (albeit to their P.O. Box, not their street address) were subsequently returned two months later, unclaimed. I explained this to Mr. Smith as well, who apologized and gave me the street address instead.
As for the plaque numbers mentioned in the message below, Mr. Smith also explained that the final versions of the plaques may deviate somewhat from the original-intended layouts, due to many errors and oversights being corrected. He stated that in some cases, entire plaques are being re-done, to correct errors. At least their seeming dedication toward accuracy seems encouraging.
If anyone has any further questions regarding the Memorial, etc, please look over my earlier message pasted below, or let me know.
Thanks! John
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 7:16 AMSubject: African American Civil War Memorial
Hello, all.
As many of you know, due to the mixed-blood "status" of many of our ancestors from the Delaware area, they were required to join Colored units if they wished to volunteer for military service.
Also, you may have heard in the news in recent months about a new memorial created in Washington DC, the African American Civil War Memorial. The memorial itself was officially dedicated this past July, but what was not yet completed at that time were the steel plates bearing the names of every soldier who served in a Colored unit, along with their white officers. An article I have of the monument from July states, "it will be several more months before the panels are ready for installation." (I'm guessing the panels will be somewhat similar to those on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial...?)
I'm not sure if these panels/plaques have indeed been installed yet or not, but while searching for information about this wonderful new monument, I came across the website noted below. This site allows searchers to each and every name slated to be on one of the plaques.
I am very, very excited to find the name of my great-great-grandfather, Cornelius Ridgeway, slated to be on one of the plaques. However, they've misspelled his name (!!) as "Cornebus" instead of Cornelius. (I've sent an e-mail message, inquiring as to whether it's too late to have this corrected).
At any rate, here are the names of all family members I've found so far which will be displayed on the completed monument:
Cornelius Ridgeway, Company C, 8th U.S. Colored Infantry (to be on plaque #A-19)
Alfred Ridgeway, Company C, 8th U.S. Colored Infantry (Cornelius' brother) (to be on plaque #A-19)
Daniel Coker, Company C, 25th U.S. Colored Infantry (to be on plaque #B-41)
William Carney, Company F, 32nd U.S. Colored Infantry (to be on plaque #B-48)
(I forgot to search for Isaiah "Zaddock/Zeddick" Munce/Muntz, but I'm sure he'll be there, since he shows on official rosters for Company E, 30th U.S. Colored Infantry).
(I tried to search for John Morgan, but could not find the right one--there are many--but Lynn and I have had previous unsuccessful attempts to find further evidence of his military record, even though...I believe it's his tombstone, right, Lynn?--lists him as being a Civil War veteran).
(Does anyone know of any other Civil War veterans in our families??)
Here is the website:
To search for soldiers' names, click on "Names Database." Once there, type-in the last name of the soldier and press .
If you have any questions, let me know! Sincerely, one VERY excited and proud John Carter!
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: Hello!Date: 99-03-17 22:10:53 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
On Tue, 16 Mar 1999 13:56:02 ESTTina Pierce Fragoso wrote:
"Hello, My name is Tina Pierce Fragoso. I am a relatively new member of theMitsawokett onelist."
Hi, Tina. Welcome to the group. You may recall that I wrote to you back in April of 1995, while you were at Stanford University. A relative of yours had given me your address, through my aunt. I had read about your thesis from Princeton University, "The Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape Indians: Restoration of a Tribal Identity," but had been unable to borrow a copy through inter-library loan. (Princeton had stated at the time that they did not loan out their theses). However, I'm not sure whether you ever received my letter, as I never heard back from you. I'd be curious to know whether the thesis is available through any other libraries, or what other work you may have done in the meantime. Thanks, and again: Welcome. John Carter
Subj: WeslagerDate: 99-03-18 22:25:49 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Regarding:
"9. Weslager -- to be developed further. Notes he took during interviews heconducted with the Nanticokes & Moors in the early 1940's containgenealogical information. Of historical research interest is the list ofbooks he authored, found in his obituary."
...his OBITUARY??? I didn't know he had passed away! Or did I...? Now I'm confused. Guess I'd better go check out your website.... John
Subj: Re: WeslagerDate: 99-03-18 23:22:34 ESTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 99-03-18 22:25:49 EST, you write:
2. Branch of service in which he served (Army, Navy, Marines) (When not sure, I usually just guess "Army.")> 3. State from which he served.> 4. War in which (or dates) he served.> 5. Whether Union or Confederate (if Civil War). (If you aren't sure which, you may need to submit one for each).> > No money is required for them to do a search, but if the records are found, it costs $10 to receive copies of them. (Or you can include a credit card number at the time you send the request, and there is no charge if they are unable to locate the records). It takes several weeks for them to do a search.> You can ask them to search for one of three kinds of files:> 1. Pension> 2. Bounty-Land Warrant Application (service before 1856 only).> 3. Military> > It is suggested that requesters ask for Pension files first, because if they do exist, they contain the most useful information to researchers such as ourselves (family information, dates, etc). Pensions were not given for Civil War soldiers until after the Act of June 27th, 1890, I believe, and even then were only for ill, injured, etc veterans, so if the veteran died before then (and did not leave a pension-claiming widow), or was unsuccessful in establishing that he was unable to work (an invalid), there would be no pension record in existence. There were at least two Widows' Pensions act, called the Act of July 14th, 1862, and Act of April 19th, 1908. Not sure what the differences are. I guess it depends on when the veteran died, and how "in need" (with minor children, etc) the remaining widow was, and what benefits/services were provided. There were at least two other acts, the Act of May 11th, 1912, and another dated May 1st, 1920, regarding veterans' pensions, but I'm not sure what their exact purpose was, either. Records pertaining to this type of information would all be found under the name of the veteran's Pension file. If, however, Pension records cannot be located, or the veteran was ineligible, then another attempt should be for Military records. These would at least confirm the existance of such a person, and give you an idea of the locales in which he served, and on what dates. ----------
There is also a source for Civil War photos:
There is a division of the U.S. Army which is involved in collecting as many Civil War photographs as possible. If you contact them and provide them with information concerning your ancestor, they will do a search to see if they have any photographs on file. If one is found, they will provide you with a rate sheet and information on how to order a copy. (Sometimes, permission from the donor of the original photograph is required, but if so, you will be instructed on how to obtain this). The address is: Department of the Army U.S. Army Military History Institute Carlisle Barracks, Bldg. 22 Carlisle, PA 17013-5008
Subj: Can't get on Mitsawokett siteDate: 99-03-18 23:59:13 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, I keep trying to go to the Mitsawokett site, but it keeps booting me off with the message "This system has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down." Not sure why.... John
Subj: Re: Can't get on Mitsawokett siteDate: 99-03-19 00:00:25 ESTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
I'm having trouble getting the page to load, too. Can't get into GeoCities file manager either. I think it's a trouble with GeoCities.
Ray
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: Additions / Thomas CarneyDate: 99-03-19 16:52:46 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
On: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 07:59:06 +0000Preston L. Sammons wrote:
Was Thomas CARNEY b. 1852 the father of Adeline CARNEY? If so, who was the wife of Thomas?
-----
Then,On: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:32:37 ESTLorraine Johnson Gregg wrote:
Thomas Carney, son of James Carney and Sallie Sanger/Songo, m Susan Muntz,they were parents of Adeline, Maggie, Lilly, Wm. Earnest, James, Herbert,Harrison Carney. they separated and then Susan m Jesse Dean (no children by this m) Jesse Dean m first Sallie Seeney and they had a son Earnest Clarence Dean.Susan Munce Carney Dean d in Cedarville, NJ. Most of this family moved to NJ.
----- Lorraine, thanks for this information! I didn't realize that the Thomas Carney who was father of Adeline was the same as the Thomas Carney who was son of James/Martin Carney. However, you mentioned that his wife was Susan Muntz (Munce), and I thought of something that might be of interest/clarification to Preston: Even though this Susan's name was Munce/Muntz, wasn't her father actually a Sammons? I have her noted as "Susan Munce Sammons," because that was the best way I could list it so I'd remember the circumstances. Seems like I asked you and/or Rose about this a few years ago, and it was really confusing because some of the children in that family were known as Munce/Muntz and some were known as Sammons. This is what I have in my FTM--please correct me if I'm wrong:
Children of Benjamin Sammons (b. Feb 1837, d. ?) and Lydia Ann Munce (b. Sep 1832, d. 1908):
1. "Nemiah" (Nehemiah?) Sammons, (b. 1855) 2. Minnie Sammons, (b. 15 Sep 1856) 3. Susan Munce Sammons, (b. 1857) 4. Christina "Tene" Sammons, (b. 1869) 5. Brady Cooper Sammons, (b. Jan 1878) 6. Robert Sammons, (b. ?)
Thanks for your help! John
Subj: RE: New WebsiteDate: 99-03-19 23:28:16 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: JACKLYN001@ ('JACKLYN001@')CC: 74547.41@ (74547.41@), AquaBetty@ (AquaBetty@), eheite@ (eheite@)
Hello. I just tried to view Heinegg's site, but something about the way he has it loaded is giving my pc a brain-fry. It took about 15-20 minutes after clicking on the Maryland/Delaware link just for the page to load up. Then, the amount on that page was so enormous, that each time I clicked on the down-end of the scroll bar, it would take like 20-30 seconds for it to inch down 1 or 2 lines. I got as far as the acknowledgments to Lynn's & Ned's websites before I completely freaked out and lost patience. Damn, I need to get a new pc! :-) John
----------From: JACKLYN001@[SMTP:JACKLYN001@]Sent: Friday, March 05, 1999 12:08 PMTo: spiff@Cc: eheite@; AquaBetty@; 74547.41@Subject: New Website
Greetings,
Not to throw fuel on an old fire but I thought you find be interested in thenew website of an old "friend" : Paul Heinegg
Lynn
Subj: RE: Can't get on Mitsawokett siteDate: 99-03-19 23:03:41 ESTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
OK, I'll try again in a little while. Right now I'm going through all my older messages that I'd put aside, due to their referencing web sites, and am now viewing the sites. My pc is so damned SLOW when I go onto the web, that I DREAD doing it. Whenever I receive a message with a website listed, I put it aside for later viewing. Eventually, I have a large list of e-mails to go through and surf the sites. This is why I haven't been helping with providing data for your Mitsawokett site as much as I should. I never go to the site to see what's new or what's needed. As soon as I get through this move to another house, and a possible trip to Scotland (fingers crossed), I plan to try to buy a new computer. You can bet I'm going to get the FASTEST one on the market!! :-) I just got done viewing the US Colored Troops site that Ned shared in an e-mail in mid-January (!!). It's a great site! I saw Alfred Ridgeway and Daniel Coker's names. I've just fired off an e-mail to the group running the site, to get the e-mail address for the author of this USCT grave-listing project (they invited viewers to send e-mails to the author, but did not give the e-mail address), so I can provide him/her with a couple more gravesites that I know of. I'm getting ready to view the Heinegg website that Lynn passed along earlier this month. I also plan to get to the GEDCOM tonight to send to you, or possibly tomorrow. I had planned to go to Atlanta this weekend, and had taken a couple of extra days off, then decided not to go but kept the days off anyway. Now I'm trying to get all caught up on my e-mail and genealogy material, and pack for my upcoming move at the same time! I was off work today, and am off Monday and Tuesday as well. Take care, John
----------From: AquaBetty@[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 9:37 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Can't get on Mitsawokett site
Hi John,
For the first time I got the error message just now, a little window openedand said " "this has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down"
We get that several times a day on all the software we are using. We havegotten to the point where we drag it to the bottom right almost out of sight.Doesn't seem to cause any problems. We do save our work very frequently.
I was getting into the site last nite, but very slowly. The GeoCities filemanager could not be worked with--it took 10 minutes to process a change to a5K file! Today was better, but still slow. I think they have too manycustomers on their servers.
Can you operate with the error message pulled out of the viewing area?
Ray
Subj: Re: Can't get on Mitsawokett siteDate: 99-03-19 23:42:18 ESTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 99-03-19 23:03:41 EST, you write:
Elijah Durhama son of Gorge [George] Durhamof Ken [Kent] County & Stat [State]Deliwur [Delaware] (was?) marriedto Ann Coot [Cott] a daughterJohn Coot [Cott] cenur [senior] ofthe same hundred, county& state of afore saide [said]one (Thursday?) tenth dayof December in theyear of our Lordone thousan [thousand] eighthundred & fortyby (Josaway?) [Joshua?] (Lum?)(Lewis?) (omination?) of(Meathis?) (pisable?) [Episcopal?] church1840
As you can see, the literacy of the writer was poor, and also there is no mention of Ann's first name actually being Mary.
-----
Then, on: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 13:56:33 -0500"Donald W. Fisher" wrote:
"Martin is born 13 Sep 1830 and less than four months later Obediah is born 5 Jan 1831. Hevarin is born 8 Oct 1834 and just over four months later William H. is born 12 Feb 1835. Other than the possible clerical error on the part of the original writer, have you any later data about this dilemma?"
-----
Then, Ray & Betty Terry (AquaBetty@) replied, listing the entries from the Cott family Bible, and their transcription was indeed correct. (There were four more later-born children which they left out, since they were not part of the date-confusion). I have no other thoughts on the date-discrepancies, other than the possibilities Ray & Betty mentioned.
Then, Betty & Ray mentioned:
"There is another problem with this Bible with regard to the John Cotts (John A., John D. & John Wesley) and their wives. We will let John go into that."
This one is a brain-boggler, but for ease I will transcribe here what I wrote to a cousin in a letter in January 1990:
"One thing about the Cott family has always confused me, and I've not yet done the research to try to figure it out-- On page 3 of the Bible family pages it begins by listing the birth of John Wesley Cott, son of John [D.] Cott and Sarah _____ Cott. Next, it lists the birth of a Sarah Carney Cott, daughter of Thomas Carney and yet-another-Sarah. The third notation lists John W. and SARAH Cott as being married in 1862. "And yet, according to their obituaries, John W. Cott married Lydia A. Dean in 1859, with whom he lived until death. Also, on page 2, column 2 of the Bible pages, it lists their 6 children, beginning with Sary Catherine, and clearly states 'daughter of John W. and LYDIA Cott.' "At first, one might think that the Bible writer, (who, chances are, was not a family member) made a mistake, and wrote 'Sarah' in the 3rd listing on page 3 instead of 'Lydia.' The discrepancy in marriage dates from 1859 to 1862 could then be a mistake on the part of the newspaper's informant, either accidentally or deliberately. But theory leaves unexplained the meaning of the 2nd entry on page 3: Sarah Cott being the daughter of Thomas and Sarah Carney. This is not as easy to explain away as an error, since Lydia's parents were Jesse and Hester Dean. For now, all this remains a mystery to me."
----- end of transcript.
And, it is STILL a mystery to me. Every time I try to think about this one, smoke starts coming out of my ears.
One other note: John Wesley Cott's father, John D. Cott, was married to a Sarah, but she was Sarah Ann DEAN, sister of the Jesse Dean Jr who married Hester Ann Carney.
Comments and speculation welcome. Thanks! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Away from the computerDate: 99-05-03 06:49:19 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, everyone. Just a quick note to let everyone know that I've been away from the computer for the last week or so, and have fallen very behind in reading my messages (I currently have 67 unread). The new house is taking up much more time than I'd expected! :-) Anyway, I hope to get caught up as soon as possible. Thanks! JohnSubj: [Mitsawokett] FW: Isaac Reed SalmonDate: 99-05-31 21:44:41 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello. Don't know how many of you may have already seen this Salmon(s) reference on the Lower DelMarVa Roots list from May 10th...? For your info. John
----------From: SchulzEGS@[SMTP:SchulzEGS@]Sent: Monday, May 10, 1999 7:48 AMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: Re: Isaac Reed Salmon
Just a FYI--The 1800 Census of Sussex Co., DE for Indian River has the followingWalls:Samuel Sr.SamuelWilliam Jr.William Sr.andSammons:Isaac+++++++
----------From: Brian Walls[SMTP:d4walls@]Sent: Sunday, May 09, 1999 2:57 PMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: Isaac Reed Salmon
Diana,
I saw your query (Oct 98) on Lower-Delmarva-Roots-L. My major line ofsearch in Sussex is the Walls family, but there is a connection to theSalmons.
The earliest connection is somewhat suspect. I think that Isaac Reed Salmonmarried Barsheba Walls, daughter of Thomas Walls and Jane (surname unknown).The Lewes and Coolspring Presbyterian Church transcription says "Wallace"(Note: I have not seen the original) but the baptism of Thomas Salmon in St.Georg's P/E church clearly has "Thomas Walls Salmons." The Walls and Salmonfamilies lived close to each other in Indian River Hundred.
Later, Leah Salmon marries a Jesse Walls (20 Feb 1805). I think she is ayounger daughter (or granddaughter) of Isaac and Barsheba. Jesse and Leahmoved to Van Wert County, OH and had children: Elizabeth, Mary, Margaret,Isaac, Nehemiah, Nancy, Eleanor, Thomas, John, Jesse, and Nancy. JesseWalls was a great grandson of the Thomas Walls that I think is the fatherBarsheba. I have not found a "Wallace" family in Indian River Hundredwhere "Reedy" was living.
Do you have the father and mother of Isaac Reed Salmon? I hope that some ofmy information helps you. Good luck!
Brian WallsColumbia, Maryland
______________________________
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] Cott family BibleDate: 99-05-31 21:55:53 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
On: Mon, 10 May 1999 "Donald W. Fisher" wrote:
"Hello, John, Lisa, and others.... John, you sent the quotes including all the strange and unintelligible words from your family Bible, and there is another possible connection for the data related to the minister performing the marriage of Elijah Durham and [Mary] Ann Cott. In Sussex Co., there is a town called Lewes (may be one of those words you can't decipher) on the coast near Cape Henlopen S.P. There is a Methodist cemetery there in which a Rev. William Becket (d. 1743) is buried with his wife Mary (d. 1732). The Becket surname is connected with our Perkins lines. Could the minister who married Durham/Cott have been associated with this church (Meathis pisable?) at a somewhat later time? Don't know what to make of this, but it has me wondering."
Hi, Don. Yes, sounds like a reasonable hypothesis. :-) Perhaps something worth checking out. Ahh, if only I could win the lottery and retire and do genealogy full-time.....! John
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] Cott family BibleDate: 99-06-01 07:23:53 EDTFrom: dwfrft@ (Donald W. Fisher)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@
From: "Donald W. Fisher"
> Beckett died Sept 26, 1742, and is buried in the Episcopal churchyard, not> the Methodist cemetery, which is a few blocks to the west.>> Becket was not very likely to have been friendly with the Methodists, some> of the earliest of whom preached in Lewes. Scharf's history has a list of> the Methodist ministers at Lewes, and for most other major charges in> Delaware.>
Ned,
I will have to check that reference I got from one of the Perkins peopleabout three weeks ago. Something in my memory says that the Rev. William inthe Methodist cemetery had later dates, but I will have to check. Morelater.
Don
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] Cott family BibleDate: 99-06-01 09:01:43 EDTFrom: eheite@ (Ned Heite)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@
From: eheite@ (Ned Heite)
>From: "Donald W. Fisher"
>I will have to check that reference I got from one of the Perkins people>about three weeks ago. Something in my memory says that the Rev. William in>the Methodist cemetery had later dates, but I will have to check. More>later.
The Methodist cemetery is huge, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were aminister named Becket in there. I can only wish that someone in Sussexwould do a book like the one we have for Kent County. In Lewes alone, thereare five or six cemeteries that go back to the eighteenth century,including two Quaker burial grounds.
Ned Heite, Camden, DE
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Harry Muncey, Jemina Munce, etcDate: 99-06-02 07:01:41 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, Harry, Don and all. Harry, I see you figured out how to post to the entire list. :-)(delete chat) Don: Harry and I (as well as several others on this list--prior to it becoming a list) have discussed for a few years now the infamous maiden name of Jemina/Jemima Munce(y). However, this is the first I've heard of Lockwood as a possibility! (that I recall of, anyway). But, just when you thought it couldn't get any more confusing: Robert and Jemima's daughter Angeline Munson Dean's death certificate lists her mother's maiden name as "Okea." Now you have THREE possible maiden names to contend with! This evening, I'll try to go through my old e-mails pertaining to this discussion (about a year ago, I think), and forward any pertinent messages to you. Thanks, John
Subj: RE: Thanks much / HanzerDate: 99-06-02 22:13:12 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: JS1241@ ('JS1241@')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Sheila. Sorry you had a problem accessing the web sites. I did go to Lynn Jackson's site the same day I sent you the message, and I had no problem. However, that same day I also tried to access the Terrys' site, and did experience a problem with Netscape telling me "This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down." I assumed it was my browser program and/or my pc. My pc is so ancient and slow I didn't try again after that. I know the Terrys' site was having a glitch a few months ago, but am not sure if that's what you're experiencing. I'm cc'ing them with this reply. Ray & Betty: Does the problem that Sheila describes below sound familiar? Thanks for your help! John P.S. Sheila: No, although I moved I'm still in St. Petersburg, not Ft. Lauderdale.
----------From: JS1241@[SMTP:JS1241@]Sent: Monday, May 31, 1999 10:08 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Thanks much-Hanzer
Hi John,Thank you so much for answering my Hanzer querie. I understand moving. I'm never going to move again. Oh my gosh, the accumulation!! Ft. Lauderdale is that where you moved. My husband's brother has a half year home in Lakeland. Close.I have tried to access the two sites you gave. The one I can access is from GeoCities and I can get to where the Handsor index is and then I get this message, "Oops! We're having a problem finding this page". The other one from Lynn Jackson I can't get at all. The message, I think, is "Connection failed". I think I was given these two sites by someone else previously and the same thing happened. I'm not sure what the problem is, but I'll keep trying! I suspect when we all get back a generation or two we'll all find a connection. I have no idea what county or where in Delaware my Wm is from as his census records just say Del., but I'll keep searching for clues. I will keep my eyes open for any info pertaining to your family and pass it on.Thank you so much for taking the time to check your records for me and I also appreciate your sending my querie to the others in your group.Sincerely,Sheila
----------From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Monday, May 31, 1999 2:57 PMTo: 'JS1241@'Cc: 'Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)'Subject: RE: Hanzer
Hi, Sheila.
My apologies for taking so long to reply, but I have recently moved and have been trying to get "situated." :-)
Sorry, but I'm not able to make an immediate connection with the Hanzers/Handsors you mentioned.
My ancestor, Deborah Handsor/Hanzer Ridg(e)way, wife of William Ridg(e)way, was born ca. 1808 in Sussex County, DE, and died 15 Jan 1876, most likely in Kent County, DE. I haven't been able to trace her line any further, although it's certain she must connect somehow with the Handsors of Sussex County, DE.
However, I belong to an on-line research group, several of whom are also tracing Handsors/Hanzers from Delaware. A couple of the members have very informative web sites:
Ray & Betty Terry's site:
From there, you can scroll down and click on "Family History Reports."
Lynn Jackson's site:
Click on "Families" and then on "Hansor"
I haven't been to their web-sites in a while (I have a very slow computer and don't go onto the Internet too much--I'll hopefully be getting a new pc in the next couple of weeks), so if you have a problem locating their Handsor info, let me know.
Our group is called "Mitsawokett," and if you wish to join the group after checking out the above sites, follow these instructions:
Go to either:
follow the instructions
--OR--
click on the OneList icon, then click on "New Member" at the left of the screen and fill out the form.
Ned Heite is the listowner/moderator and will facilitate your induction into the group.
I am also cc'ing this message and your query to the group, so you may hear from some of them as well.
I hope this helps, and good luck!
Sincerely, John C. Carter spiff@ St. Petersburg, FL
Subj: Re: Thanks much / HanzerDate: 99-06-03 14:33:09 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@, JS1241
In a message dated 99-06-02 22:13:12 EDT, spiff@ writes:
>
That is correct. We have never finished the Handsor report. There is a problem linking the early generations to the later ones--proofs are lacking.
Right now we are working on obituaries. Lorraine and Rose have sent over 100 to be scanned, edited and uploaded to the site. However, the Obituaries section needs to be reformatted because of the odd distribution of names, alphabetically, in our families. Some of the existing pages will become too large to load in under 1 minute.
There is too much to be done for an efficient operation.
John, you are the life of this group. When you are gone there is virtually no traffic!
Be good.
B&R
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] Cott family BibleDate: 99-06-02 22:13:30 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
----- On: Mon, 31 May 1999 23:19:51 EDT Stacey wrote: "John, you sent the quotes including all the strange and unintelligible words from your family BibleI would be glad to help you with those words and phrases if I can. Stacey/Wicomicowm..."
Thanks, Stacey! Actually, I think the words have been mostly translated, and a couple of the others on the list had some good suggestions a few weeks (months?) ago as well. It would take too long to go into detail here, but if you are interested I would be happy to send you photocopies via snail-mail. (I think the transcripts are posted on Lynn Jackson's website as well. Perhaps the Terrys'??) There are only one or two unintelligible words left, and they're not key to the understanding or importance of the text (at least not to me). And I don't think their "unintelligibleness" is related to dialect or local slang; they were just written by someone who was not very literate. Thanks, though! John
Subj: RE: Member ListDate: 99-06-02 22:13:34 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Thanks for posting the member list! I think it's a great idea to post it now and then. I thought I would offer a couple of tidbits, if it helps:
1. The "CJ" you've listed is Celeste Marshall, Sandy Marshall's daughter. (Her e-mail address is Nanticoke9@, right?) Anyway, I know she signs "CJ" on some of her messages, but her mother sent me a message one time and said it was her daughter, and that her name was Celeste H. Marshall. I'm not sure where the "J" comes in, but I just double-checked and found another message where she signed as "CJ." (On a surname list, she once told me her two primary surnames of interest were Coursey and Johnson. Sandy's maiden name was Coursey, so the "J" probably refers to Johnson somehow).
2. Firehair's full name is Sheila Spencer Stover, aka "Firehair Shining Spirit."
3. The one you have listed as "Cora Blume" should be CARA Blume.
Just a little FYI.... Thanks! John P.S. Glad to see Harry Muncey signed on as well.... He's a character, but has some good info (when he decides to share it).... ;-)
Subj: Re: Member ListDate: 99-06-04 00:09:44 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 99-06-02 22:13:34 EDT, you write:
"As far as we can tell, the claim stems from an application for membership inthe Bridgeton, NJ, Indian organization by Brian Huneycutt. There are noproofs given in the application and the group has proven wrong some of hisclaims. Our notes for Hester are as follows:1. Bryan Huneycutt's application for membership in the Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape Indians of NJ, Inc., gives Hester's name and parents. However, see 2.2. Thomas Carney's will does not mention Hester Carney or Hester Dean. He mentions wife Sarah, children Rebecca Miller, Levi, Phoebe Miller, Gustavus, Thomas, Morris, Cornelia, Sally, and Eliza.3. Orphans' Court file of Jesse Dean, died Nov 1868. Left to survive him was "a widow named Hester and eight children...."4. GEDCOM file from John Carter 3/98 (spiff@)John & Karen -- do you have evidence to support the Thomas-Hester link?"
-----
Then, on: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 00:30:57 EST Joseph Romeo wrote:
"Is there even any evidence (apart from Huneycutt's application) that Hester'smaiden name was Carney? Does the group have death certificates of any of thechildren giving her maiden name? Or Bible records?"
-----
My current comments, continued: I'm not sure if the bizarre reference in the Cott Bible had anything to do with this.... I still need to look for more (if any) references. Sorry I don't have much of use, especially after waiting all this time, but I wanted you to know I hadn't intentionally ignored the issue. If I come across anything, I'll share it with you. Thanks, John
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] Isaiah Munce/MuntzDate: 99-06-03 22:31:38 EDTFrom: RomeoJA@Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@
From: RomeoJA@
In a message dated 6/3/99 8:55:10 Eastern Daylight Time, JACKLYN001@ writes:
>
Hi Lynn,
You raise a good question.
From the Mitsawockett marriage list, we find the following:
Jos. Munnce & Caroline Dean December 22, 1858(from records kept by the families)
Also:
Groom: MUNCE, Joseph Bride: DEAN, Caroline Place: Kent Co. Date: 22 Dec 1858 Minister: P. Mansfield Source: Kent Co. Marriages Reference: Vol 90 p 40
Even if the name is Joseph and not Josiah as in your records, it is still not clear whose family he belongs to. The only Munce family I have any record on in the 1850 census is Robert Munce. Maybe someone else can help sort this?
Thanks for the info on Elmira. In the 1870 census Isaiah and Elmira have a Rebecca Carter in the household, 50, F, M, b. Md. I assume this is Elmira's mother.
--Joseph.
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] Isaiah Munce/MuntzDate: 99-06-04 07:14:53 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
----- On: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 22:29:52 EDT Joseph Romeo wrote:
"Thanks for the info on Elmira. In the 1870 census Isaiah and Elmira have a Rebecca Carter in the household, 50, F, M, b. Md. I assume this is Elmira's mother."
Hi, Joseph. Yes, Rebecca was Elmira's mother. She was Lynn's gr-gr-gr-grandmother, and sister of my gr-gr-grandmother Elizabeth Carty/Carter. John
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] Josiah/Joseph Munce/MuntzDate: 99-06-08 00:40:29 EDTFrom: RomeoJA@Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@
From: RomeoJA@
Lynn, Harry,
In rereading some earlier posts, I found that the orphans court petition relating to the estate of Jesse Dean (1869) lists among his children Caroline the wife of Josiah Muntz. So Lynn's question, "what do we do about Josiah?" is not answered easily.
Josiah is the name listed in 1850 in the family of Robert Munce. Using the printed indexes to the census in Delaware 1850 and 1860, I looked up all the Munces and variant spellings. I did not find Josiah in the 1860 census. Any idea where he was in 1860 or later? If we can determine his age, it may help us answer the question.
I did not find an Isaiah Munce among any of the 1850 families. But he is listed in 1860 and later.
--Joseph.
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] Thomas Carney, revisitedDate: 99-06-06 22:05:39 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
-> -> -> On: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:28:03 -0500 Karen wrote:
"John,I have nothing to support Hester as Thomas Carney;s daughter. I was justmaking reference to some info that was shared by someone on the list. Myinterest is trying to prove that my gggrandfather Levi was this Thomas'sson. My Levi was b. between 1824-1828 in Kent Co. Delaware and the onlyreference of a Levi was in the 1850 Kent Co census and in Thomas's will. Ihave been trying to find a birth record for both of them. My Levi moved toMI after 1868. I believe that after his father's death in 1856 he moved toTrenton NJ.(If this Thomas was his father.)Somewhere in boxes I still have packed from my move a year ago, I have afamily bible that lists Levi being born in Kent Co DE. It also lists hischildrenbeing born in Trenton NJ. He married Sarah Greenage and I can't find anyfurther info on her either.Do you have any further info on this family?Thanks,Karen"
Hi, Karen. Thanks for the info. I think it was Joseph who was requesting the info, and I was trying to assist in finding the references, especially since a GEDCOM I supplied to Betty & Ray Terry is one of the references! :-) I'm very interested as well, but can't seem to find why I had them entered into my FTM program that way. I will definitely keep checking. As for Levi, I'm sorry I don't have any info on his family, but will keep an eye open for that as well. Thanks again! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Regretful news....Date: 99-06-08 01:44:04 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')CC: 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie (74547.41@)'), dwatts@ ('dwatts@')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, everyone. It is with great sadness that I announce the passing of my maternal grandmother, Ruby Lewallen Harris, early Monday morning, June 7, 1999, at the age of 90. I will be away a few days, attending the funeral in Boone County, West Virginia. Thanks, John
Subj: RE: John Henry Ridgway, etc.Date: 99-06-18 23:37:11 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: rbright4@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie (rbright4@)'), Tpfragoso@ ('Tpfragoso@')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hi, Rose & Tina. I was just going back over some of the older messages and came across this one. Just wanted to make sure I understood this correctly. It says below that Tina is the daughter of Henry Ridgeway and Edith Sammons, but shouldn't this be "granddaughter"? The information I have says that Tina's parents were Lew and Edie Pierce. (I assume Edie is a daughter of Henry and Edith...?) Also, is the Arthur Sammons below (husband of Rosella Mosley) the son of the Arthur Sammons Sr. who married Beulah M. Ridgeway? Oh, wait--you mentioned in your P.S. that Arthur was married twice--so this is the same Arthur. And this Beulah is John Henry Ridgway's daughter, right? Thanks! John
----------From: Mitsawokett@[SMTP:Mitsawokett@]Sent: Friday, April 23, 1999 5:51 AMTo: Mitsawokett@Subject: [Mitsawokett] Digest Number 75
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 22:59:54 -0700 From: "wahoo" Subject: Re: Mosley-Dickerson-Cramer
< snip >
John,
For your records.
John Henry Ridgeway married Minnie Durham, my grandmother's sister on myfather's side.
Jerry, Beaulah M., McKinley, are the children of John Henry & MinnieRidgeway.They also had. Manford, Felix, Tilghman, Gladys, Margaret (Maggie) LewisN.,Frederick H., Jeremiiah, Vincent R., Minnie.
This is the Family of Tina Marie Pierce Fragoso. She might be able to shedsome light also. Her father was Henry Ridgeway who md. Edith Sammons.daug. ofArthur Sammons & Rosella Mosley.
Henry Ridgeway was the son of Frederick H. Ridgeway who md. Mary ElizabethMosley.
Again I come in on both of her grandparents sides.
Hope this helps.
Rose
Subj: [Mitsawokett] FW: CLARKE/CLARK,William Delaware; 1680-1743Date: 99-06-20 18:01:23 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
FYI, Clark researchers. JCC
----------From: HJack Wells[SMTP:hjackwells@]Sent: Saturday, June 19, 1999 9:33 AMTo: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject: CLARKE/CLARK,William Delaware; 1680-1743
CLARKE/CLARK,William Delaware; 1680-1743 * CLARKE (CLARK) / WELL(E)S Searching for the parents andsiblings of William CLARKE [b. 8 April 1680] in Sussex Co.,DE. - [d.bef1743 in Sussex Co, DE at age 63] m.2 July 1730 in Kent Co.,DE., Mary Well(e)s ]. Children: Isace (b.abt 1730 - d.1779; John (b.1735 - d.befApr 1799); William (b.bef 1742 - d.abt 1785); and Elizabeth (b.abt 1730d.?)
H.Jack Wells Researching Alexander's, Well(e)s, Hart's, Clarke's of Eastern Shoreof Md. & DE., Kropelien's >Prussia to Buffalo NY, & Bruskotters > Germany >Ohio, EMAIL=HJackWells@
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Ridg(e)way / JackDate: 99-06-20 18:01:56 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
On: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:04:02 EDT Joseph Romeo wrote:
< snip >
"Anna Durham, daughter of William and Deby Ridgway, was the wife of Charles Henry Durham. They appear in Appoquinimink Hundred, New Castle Co., Del. in 1860, but in Wayne Co., Mich., in 1870 and 1880. Their marriage is listed as Mar. 15, 1859, under the names Harry Durham and Ann Jack. (From previous posts it appears that the Jack and Ridgway names refer to the same family.)"_ _ _ _
Hi, Joseph & Don.
Again, forgive me if this has already been discussed/confirmed, but I was trying to find Don's previous post and can't remember which date it was on. Anyway, was there a record which cited that Anna was a daughter of William and Deby Ridgway? According to census records, William and Deborah Handsor Ridg(e)way did have a daughter Ann, born ca. 1840.
As for the Jack surname, whereas I've seen it used seemingly inter-changeably with Ridg(e)way in another branch of the Ridg(e)way family, I've never before seen it occur with William's descendants. (ALL: Has anyone else seen this?)
The most notable place I've witnessed it was with the family of Tilghman & Sina Ridg(e)way. In the 1850 Kent County census (pg 172, household #1299) the family is all listed under the surname Jack:
Name: Age: Tilman Jack 35 Sina 35 Elizabeth 10 Timothy 8 Matilda 6 Sarah 5 Frank 3 Susan 6/12
By the way: Matilda's death certificate gives her parents' names as Tillman Ridgeway and Sina Mosley. Sarah's death certificate lists parents as Tilmon Ridgway and Sina Mosley.
As to why they identified themselves as Jack, this is a mystery to me.
ALL: Does anyone have further examples of Ridg(e)ways being identified as Jack?
While on the subject of the Ridg(e)ways, does anyone have any information which might provide the connection between the families of William Ridg(e)way (b. ca. 1804, husband of Deborah Handsor), and Tilghman Ridg(e)way (b. ca. 1815, husband of Sina Mosley)? There is undoubtedly a connection, because in the paperwork pertaining to receiving a Civil War pension, Sarah (daughter of Tilghman) described her first husband Alfred Wilbank Ridgeway (son of William) as a "second cousin."
Of course, the exact connection depends on her (or the scribe's) interpretation of "second cousin." Growing up, I was taught to refer to my parents' first cousins as my second cousins, whereas later in life I learned that by genealogical definition they were "first cousins once removed." A true second cousin would be of the same generational level as oneself (two second cousins would be the respective children of two first cousins). But who knows if people of Sarah and Alfred's era abided by the precise definition of "second cousin."
(Of course, there also remains the possibility that their second-cousin relationship was not through the Ridg(e)way line at all, but rather through one or more maternal lines. Although one would wonder at the necessity of listing the "second cousin" status down for any reason other than to explain why one would have the same surname as one's spouse).
Thanks, John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Mary / Ann Cott DurhamDate: 99-06-20 18:02:08 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
On: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:04:02 EDT Joseph Romeo wrote:
< snip >
"I think I have placed the Durham women whose death records you [Don] located:Lidda (i.e. Lydia) Durham, d. of Robert and Mary Miller, was the wife of William T. Durham of Philadelphia. This William was the son of Elijah and Mary A. (Cott) Durham."
< snip >
Forgive me if I'm asking something that's already been discussed/clarified, but has it been determined that this Mary A. (Cott) Durham is the same as the "Ann Cott" who was listed in the Cott family Bible as marrying Elijah Durham, son of George Durham, on 10 Dec 1840? Thanks! John
Subj: RE: Dean FamilyDate: 99-06-20 21:50:19 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: greenshamrock@ne. ('McNamee & Harmon')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)')
Hello, Colleen. Although I am a Dean descendant, I just checked my computer genealogy file, and do not find an Elmira Dean. What web page are you looking at? If it's the Mitsawokett page, some of that information came from me, but not all. It's a joint-effort from several researchers, headed up by Ray and Betty Terry. I'm cc'ing them on this reply; perhaps they can assist. Thanks, John P.S. There is an Almira ____ in my file, who was married to a Robert B. Dean, so she was Mrs. Almira Dean. Not sure if this is the one you're referring to....
----------From: McNamee & Harmon[SMTP:greenshamrock@ne.]Sent: Sunday, June 20, 1999 9:18 PMTo: Spiff@Subject: Dean Family
Hi,
I am trying to track down Elmira Dean married to Harry Walleston. Harrydied in Lousianna during the Civil War (abt. 1863). They had a sonHenry. I came accross a reference to an Elmira Dean on your page andthough perhaps the 2 were connected.
I would appreciate any information.
Thank you
Colleen
Subj: [Mitsawokett] FW: "Coker Cuzzins" Date: 99-06-27 00:57:24 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all. For anyone interested in a Coker e-mail list, I received the message below. I have just signed up, but am not sure how much information in the discussion(s) will pertain to the Cokers of the MD Eastern Shore (and DE) area. I know there are many Cokers in the U.S. who were descended from progenitor(s) in the Carolinas as well. Also, I've never been involved with a "Listbot" list before. It doesn't appear that they offer a "digest" option. If this is the case, I will unsubscribe from the list, as my e-mail volume (and my sanity) cannot handle so many individual messages. Will keep you posted, John
----------From: Rebecca K. Glenn-Dickson[SMTP:rkgd1951@]Sent: Saturday, June 26, 1999 3:26 AMTo: granny37@; RobtWCoker@; BigCoker@; sdouglas@; pm@; liberty@; smbkl@; BJWill2910@; spiff@; cherokee112@; wngoode@; bobbatt@; foxylady@; srd@ns.; Jestes@; LSuggs@; ejstone@; mmgreer@; garciar@express.; t.penny@; JStancill@worldnet.; duts@worldnet.; saffron6@; cpwind@; jcoaker@; angelwks@; careb@; RPhillips@; bettysue@; zanegrey@; nelhatch@; hinshaw@; mlb911@; snake@; robbiegomez@; bgdoss@; adcoker@; cherokee112@; slynn@wister.k12.ok.us; DCraps@; JERRE.DIVELBISS@pafb.af.mil; evelynw@; 107654.432@Subject: Coker_Cuzzins
Hello All,I would like to invite you to subscribe to the brand new Coker listbot. If you will go to my homepage, click on JOIN Cokers and follow thedirections for members then you can share the Coker info posted there. I will be sending you some info from the lineage that my cousins and Iare searching, but that doesn't mean that you can't post your info therefrom a different branch. All of you are welcome!
Becky-- HOMEPAGES: : 10744597AOL IM: glnndcksn1
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Welcome, Lisa D.; & European OriginsDate: 99-06-29 22:42:45 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
On: 27 Jun 1999 01:32:35 -0000 Lisa J. Durham wrote:
"Hi everyone -- < snip >My goal is to trace the lineage as far back as possible; specifically I am looking for UK and Irish or European Ancenstry that could help megain an Ancestry Visa for UK settlement -- although I think it probalby is too far back to be acceptable. I am also hoping to link the family here to family in the UK and Elsewhere ---"
< snip >
-----Then, On: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 19:57:33 EDT Joseph Romeo wrote:
"There are various suggestions as to the relationships between these early Durhams, and nobody has yet determined where they were before they settled in Kent Co. The "prehistory" of the "Moor" families is a mystery; there could have been European settlers who married Native American wives, or, Native American men (and women) could have taken on English names. Both could be true."
-----
Hi, Lisa D. I'm a little late, but first of all I would like to say "Welcome!" I hope the list is of great use to you and your research. As for tracing the Durhams or any of the other so-called "Moor" lines back to European ancestry.... You may have picked up on this from the responses you've received already, but I thought I might add an offer of caution along this topic. Whereas I would never dream of deterring someone from a personal (or shared) goal, I think Joseph stated the case very honestly in that the early origins of nearly all of these families is indeed a mystery. Many of us on this list have worked together (or alone) for many, many years in researching these families (I've been working on mine for 25 years, and there are some here who've worked longer, I believe), and these families' origins are still elusive. However, much headway is being made, especially since the creation of this group, both before and since the creation of this list (it was a "group" before it was a list). Perhaps with common efforts and perserverance we will succeed! I just didn't want you to get your hopes up too quickly, in terms of your application for an ancestry visa for UK settlement. However, I hope this doesn't dissuade you from your efforts--you are obviously making much progress already! I wish continued good luck to you! Sincerely, John Carter, a Durham descendant (among a ton of others!) :-)
Subj: [Mitsawokett] New Computer !!!Date: 99-07-01 11:47:48 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List (Mitsawokett@)')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all. Just a message to say I might be off-line a day or so (hopefully no longer than that, and with luck it will be much shorter!) In about an hour and fifteen minutes, (can you tell I'm waiting with baited breath??), the computer dude will be here with my BRAND NEW COMPUTER!!!!
STATS:
Current pc: New pc:
Pentium 75 mHz Pentium III 450 mHz14.4 modem 56 k modem850 meg hard drive (0.85 gig) 8.4 gig hard drive8 meg RAM 64 meg RAM4x CD-ROM 44x CD-ROM
Crossing my fingers that I can get all my e-mail files transferred over properly. To give you an idea of how much e-mail I save, I just cleaned out my e-mail files AT WORK the other day (after 4 years) and deleted 10,034 messages! At home I've only had e-mail about 3 & 1/2 years, so hopefully it will be a little less.... :-) Anyway, hope to be back in touch with you all soon! (This is the first day of a 5-day weekend to play around with it). John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Thomas Clark, Revolutionary veteranDate: 99-07-07 06:58:13 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: mitsawokett@ ('mitsawokett@')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all. As I was going through some older genealogy stuff, I came across something that Harry Muncey sent me a few years ago, and thought I would transcribe it here. Although I only have a copy of the one page (headed "October 1983, Revolutionary Soldiers and Heirs, Page 45"), I believe it is from the Delaware Genealogical Society Journal. (A snippet of the header on the opposite page can be seen: "iety Journal, Vol. 2"). (Harry: Do you remember the source?) Anyway, there is an entry that may be of interest to Clark researchers, among others. It sounds like this family may POSSIBLY be one and the same with the Clarks I described in my post of February 18th, 1999. (In that message, I related the story of three siblings named Nathaniel Clark, Wit Clark, and Julia Clark Morris, and how their mother had been described in family tales as a "heathen" Indian woman, who used to ride bareback on a horse, and whom some locals described as a witch, and who was found one day in the woods, dead, apparently having been thrown from the horse). Anyway, here is the excerpt:
-----
SOME REVOLUTIONARY SOLDIERS AND THEIR HEIRS* by William H. Dumont (*Discovered by Douglas A. Wenny and reprinted, with permission, from the New England Historical and Genealogical Register, 114 (July 1960), pp. 188-190.)
"In a volume entitled 'Bounty Land Script--Act of 1833', now part of the old loan records of the Treasury Department in the National Archives, Washington, D.C., are many names of Revolutionary soldiers and their heirs who were issued bounty land scrip in place of the military bounty land warrants given for service during the Revolution. This volume has the call number 'NN' and that of the index of soldiers' names in it is 'NN-1'. The entries start 18 April 1833 and stop 19 Jan 1870. "Bounty land scrip was authorized by Congress 30 May 1830. The title of the Act stated: 'For the relief of certain officers and soldiers of the Virginia Line and Navy, and of the Continental Army, during the Revolutionary War', and authorized the veterans to surrender to the Secretary of the Treasury before 1 Jan 1835 unsatisfied military bounty land warrants, and receive in their place certificates or scrip which could be used at any land office in Indiana, Illinois and Ohio. A total of 50,000 acres was allotted for those in the Continental Line. As scrip for all of this had been issued by the early part of 1832, Congress authorized an additional (p. 178) 300,000 acres on 13 July 1832 and another 200,000 acres on 2 March 1833... "Only those veterans whose heirs received scrip or were still alive at the date of the transfer of the warrants to scrip are included in the list. Omitted are the names of those who had assigned their warrants to others at some earlier date. "This is a list of the heirs of some veterans of the Revolutionary War, made fifty or more years after the signing of the Treaty of Ghent which officially confirmed the breaking away of the thirteen colonies from England...."
DELAWARE
Adams, Nathan, capt.
Barkus, John, pri.
Brown, Joshua, pri.
CLARK, Thomas, pri., p. 233. 1834--only heirs: children: Whittenton, John & Nathaniel Clark, Comfort Miller, Elizabeth Rigware, Lavina Harman: grandchildren: Nelly Morris, Nancy Cary, Robert Clark, Magee, Hetty & Whittenton Johnson, Rebecca Miller."
[bottom of page ends with surnames beginning with "E"].
-----
[John again]: What is interesting is the listing of Nathaniel and Whittenton (Wit?) as brothers, although there is no listing of Julia Clark Morris. However, there is a Morris (Nelly) among the grandchildren. But according to my data in my FTM, there was no Nelly among Julia's eight children: Carlos Morris George R. Morris Oscar Burton Morris Emma Morris Clara Preston Morris Steven Morris Anna Morris Mary Agnes Morris
Still, the possibility exists. Also of note are the names Rigware, Harman, Miller and Johnson--all names that occur in our families. (At least one Ridgeway family has been spelled as Rigware in census records, and Harman is an obvious--and still used--version of Harmon).
Does anyone have any other data to correlate with, or expound upon, this Clark record? Thanks! John
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] Thomas Clark, Revolutionary veteranDate: 99-07-07 08:51:51 EDTFrom: Wicomicowm@Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@
From: Wicomicowm@
Well I was able to get something out of this thing.. and boy did I...
Lavina Johnson Harmon is the daughter of Robert and Mary Johnson of Indian River. It is also looks like Whittington Johnson. is her brother. So it must be that Mary Johnson their mother was Mary Clark, daughter of Nathaniel. Now this makes for some interesting stuff because Lavina's grandson was named Charles Clark Sammons.. that must be the connection... perhaps another Mystery solved.
Stacey
Subj: [Mitsawokett] James Songo, Civil War veteranDate: 99-07-11 17:24:36 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@
On: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 09:10:51 -0500Subject: Re: African American Civil War Memorial"Edward B. Bush" wrote:
"James Songo, whom I believe is an ancestor of mine, was a member of the 3rd Regiment Colored Infantry, Company F. He was a corporal when he mustered out October 21, 1865. His name will be displayed on Plaque A-8. The 3rd Regiment Infantry was organized at Camp William Penn, near Philadelphia,August 3-10, 1863. The Regiment served mostly in SC and FL."_ _ _ _ _
Then,On: Tuesday, March 23, 1999 11:49 PMSubject: James SongoJohn C. Carter wrote:
"Hi, Ed. Was re-reading your message [above], and was wondering if you know of the location of the grave of James Songo? Or the date he died? Had you ordered his pension records from the National Archives yet? They often provide very helpful genealogical information, (if he or a surviving spouse lived long enough to qualify for a pension)."_ _ _ _ _
Then,On: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 3:05 AMSubject: James SongoEdward B. Bush wrote:
"Hi John,I do not have any other information on the James Songo who served in the Civil War. I also have information on a James Songo from DE who served in the Revolutionary War that I am researching. My ggggrandfather is James Songo, b. abt. 1800, and married to Mary ???. I have no other informationon him other than names of children. The James Songo in the Revolutionary War was born about 1757 and may be the father of my ggggrandfather, who may be the father of the James Songo who served in the Civil War. Any information from anyone would be appreciated."
----- Now [July 11th, 1999]: Update from John:
Hi, Ed and all: Back in late March / early April, in response to the correspondence above (and also because of my Civil War interest for "our people"), I went ahead and ordered the pension file for Corp. James Songo of Company F of the 3rd USCT (PA) Infantry from the National Archives. Well, it FINALLY arrived yesterday. (I received notice about a week and a half ago that it had been copied and was awaiting my payment; they also sent me a 2nd notice due to my "please copy entire file" inscription on the order form, stating that they had an additional 48 pages which would need to be sent by a separate order. I am still awaiting this 2nd package, and would expect that it should arrive in the next few days, since I mailed both at the same time). Anyway, it does not appear that this James Songo is your (or anyone else's, for that matter) ancestor, since according to one of the pension records that he signed, he never married nor had any children. This was as of 13 Dec 1912, at which time he would have been 66 years old, according to the 10 Aug 1846 birthdate he provided on another of the forms. As you speculated in your second message above, this James Songo could perhaps have been the son of your "ggggrandfather," but not the next in line of your ancestry, instead perhaps a ggggranduncle, or some other relative. If you (or anyone else) would like copies of these documents, please let me know. They state that he was born 10 Aug 1846 in Smyrna, DE, and was a laborer living at "No. 11 Little Oak St." in Philadelphia at the time of his enlistment (July 1863). The documents also state that after his discharge he "came to Riverside, NJ and have lived in vicinity of Riverside, NJ ever since -- except that I served about 4 years in the Navy." Another record states that he was an oysterman. Just noticed: Another record gives his birthdate as 10 Aug 1848, and says that "his statement of age at enlistment was wrong so as to be [accepted?]." Another item of interest: Although the documents he signed in 1912 have his name spelled as "Songo," and all of the military records clearly have his name spelled as "Songo," there appears to have been a period around 1899 during which he was spelling his names as "Sanger," and signed an affidavit that way. At the top of this 27 Jul 1899 document his name was typed as "Sango," with the "o" crossed out by hand, with "er" written above it. By an 1891 document, he was signing as "Songo" again. However, an 1894 document is again signed as "Sanger" (or "Songer"). Also just noticed: One document is signed as "Sanger" (or "Songer") on 12 Dec 1912, but the next day, on 13 Dec 1913, he signed two other documents as "Songo." Apparently he saw the name as interchangeable. :-) I will keep everyone apprised if the forthcoming additional 48 pages provide any further items of interest. Thanks, John
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] James Songo, Civil War veteranDate: 99-07-11 21:14:51 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: Mitsawokett@
In a message dated 99-07-11 17:24:36 EDT, you write:
>
The Songo/Sanger connection was also mentioned in the following message:
From: LFREIDA 15[SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Sunday, April 12, 1998 1:39 PMTo: spiff@
Carney Question
I'm the one that suggested that James Carney who m Sallie Songo, could have been James Martin Or Martin James because of what his son John told Dr Weslager, that Martin Carney was his father and his Mother was a Songo, I have the records of Caroline Carney who marr. Daniel Durham, (my gg grandparents on my father's side,) and the record states James Carney and Sally Songo/Sanger are her parents. Carolyn's brother John Carney b 1861 m Sallie Sammons, and they had a dau Etta who m a Miller. (There are quite a few John Carney's). Shary Carney did have a brother John, this John A or John K Carney m Willemina Durham, and they did not have a sister Caroline that I know of, or if they did we have never found a sister Caroline on the census records, or from family information.
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Songo surnameDate: 99-07-12 21:25:18 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
On: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:27:51 EDT Ray & Betty Terry wrote:
"Thanks for your work John. We intend to get back down to the Archives when we have more free time. We brought Betty's mother home after having spent 100 days in a skilled nursing facility. After seeing the care being given there, we figured we could do much better at home. She will be 90 August 3. Perhaps both of us being the lone child in the family has equipped us better to care for our parents."_ _ _ _ _
Thanks for the comments toward my and Joseph's Songo postings. In regards to Betty's mother, it sounds as if you have made a good heartfelt decision. I wish you the very best of luck. Take care, John P.S. I will be sending you some copies of obituaries in the near future.
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Lucy Perkins JacksonDate: 99-07-15 23:49:16 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
On: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 20:42:26 -0600 "Donald W. Fisher" wrote:
"I see the messages speaking about Lucy Perkins, wife of NathanielJackson. I've checked out the website, and I couldn't find much aboutLucy Perkins. Do you know anything about her background? Parents,siblings, etc.?"
- - - - -
THEN, On: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 23:15:34 EST Lorraine Johnson Gregg wrote:
"I have Wingate Perkins and Doretor_______Perkins listed as the parents of LucyPerkins b May 1854, m in 1871, her siblings were: Sallie J b 1846, Henry b1849, George b 1851, Burton H b 1854, Lemuel b 1859.Lucy's son Ira Woodrow Jackson m Winifred Louise Clark and they lived overhere in Alloway, Salem County, rmation taken from Dean Family Papers, Ira's dau Lucy Margaret Jackson mRalph Elwood Dean, son of Elwood Dean and Helen Reed, Ralph and Lucy JacksonDean live in Bridgeton NJ"
- - - - -
THEN, On: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 Ray & Betty Terry and Lorraine Johnson Gregg discussed Lucy's daughter-in-law, Winifred Louise Clark Jackson, wife of Ira Woodrow Jackson, and their daughter, Ethel "Etta" Mae Jackson Gould.
- - - - -
Now, from me/John: (7/15/99): With the recent discussion of the family of Lucy Jackson Perkins, I thought I would share a transcription of a letter in my possession, which dates from 1874. It is addressed to Lucy, who was of course the wife of Nathaniel C. Jackson. Although Elaine's message of 3/06 states that Lucy and Nathaniel were married in 1871, it seems bizarre that this letter dated 28 April 1874 would have as its salutation: "Miss Lucy Perkins." (Perhaps the author did not know Lucy had married 3 years earlier? Lorraine: Do we have a confirmation of the 1871 wedding date?) Anyway, here is the letter:
- - - - -
[scrawled in the top margin]: "John sends his love. B."
"Laurel, April 28, 1874 Miss Lucy Perkins Dear Friend, I take this opportunity of writing you to inform of my health. I am well at present and hope this may find you the same. I am sorry to inform you that Miss Amanda Smith will not not- [sic] preach next Sunday as reported but will preach Sunday week if nothing happens. I thought I would write and let you know about the pos[t]ponement of it for fear you would be disap[p]ointed. You must come over Saturday week most sur[e]ly. I changed my mind about going back to the city but I am going Saturday week if nothing should happen. We arrived home saf[e]ly. Father was at the depot to meet us he also went Menoday [sic] to meet us and I shall have many pleasant remembrances of my visit to Seaford & Middleford. Miss Sarah and the rest of the family send their kindest regards to you. Give my love to all the family and accept the best wishes of Your Friend, Emma C. Games
[continued on the attached next page]:
Lucy My Dear Friend, As I have plenty of time and space I thought I would write you a few words. I am well as fat and saucy as ever I hope this may find you in the best of health. I was overjoyed when I heard that you thought of coming over and then I heard that the woman would not preach. I know you would not come this week but you must certainly come next Saturday week [...] you also Benton be sure now and come and if the woman don't preach perhaps I will but I won't promise you what kind of a sermon it will be but I don't think she will disap[p]oint us again I can't say much more tonight I am tired and sleepy. Lucy I have often thought of the merry time we had a[t] Christmas and often wish we lived nearer together that we could see each other at least once a week. I don't have any one at all to go see now but Amelia Bensing. I must close. My love to your mother and father & Benton please write and let me know if you will come. No more at present Your affec[t]ionate friend Rebecca Games P.S. Oh give me a thought - A thought now and then and do as you ought - write soon again Good by
- - - - - [Although the letters obviously appear to have been from two different people (sisters?), the handwriting and ink are identical. Perhaps one of the parts/letters was dictated?] [I love the P.S. rhyme! Also the "fat and saucy" part!] [Who was Benton??] John
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Lucy Perkins JacksonDate: 99-07-16 01:31:48 EDTFrom: LFREIDA15@Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@
From: LFREIDA15@
John:
The m date for Lucy Perkins is typed in, 1871 no place listed, I noticed that the oldest child listed for her was LuLu b 1877, which leaves room for a later m date.I haven't researched any of this, this work was researched by Ralph E. Dean's son in law in 1988. I'm wondering if the Burton H. Perkins listed as Lucy's brother could have been Benton instead of Burton. The only Benton Perkins I have listed is the one that was the second husband of Sarah Jane Salmons. Their son Harold B. Perkins m Mabel Pierce, and they in turn had a son Harold Perkins Jr who m Elizabeth M. Simmons, they in turn had a Harold Perkins III, who lives in Alloway, NJ. They haven't traced the Benton Perkins line back.
Lorraine
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Winifred Louise ClarkDate: 99-07-17 20:10:05 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
On: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 19:43:57 -0400 "John C. Carter" wrote:
"What was the date of [the] obituary? Just curious for my records. Then I can subtract the age 73 to get approximate date of birth as well."
-----THEN, On: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 01:28:24 EDT Ray & Betty Terry wrote:
"All the obituaries are on the web site." < snip >
----- Hi, Ray & Betty. D'oh! Still not used to how EASY it is with this new computer to hop & skip around all over the place! :-) I knew you were collecting obituaries to place on the web site, but was so used to never being able to actually visit the web site (unless I had hours to spare for my browser to snail-surf there), that it didn't even occur to me to pop over there and look. Thanks!! John
John C. CarterPaternal surnames: Carney, Carty/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston, Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor, Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Morgan, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Ridgeway, Wyatt
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Attn. Coursey & Clark researchersDate: 99-07-17 08:59:39 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello. The most recent "Cousin to Cousin" newsletter (Vol. 5, issue 1, July 1999) of the Upper Shore Genealogical Society of Maryland contained the following in the "Welcome New Members" section:
[Member #]: L-43. Jayne Laroin, 2459 Pollock Rd, Grand Blanc, MI 48439. Surnames: Coursey/Decoursey (Talbot, Kent & Queen Anne Counties, [Maryland]). E-mail address: jlarion@
[Member #]: W-75. Janice Worley, 5341 S. State Ford Rd., Scottsburg, IN [no zip]. Surnames: Clark/Clarke, Birmingham, Seago, Graves, Browne. E-mail address: worley@
Good luck! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: New ComputersDate: 99-07-18 15:49:17 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
On: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 20:53:14 EDT "Ray & Betty Terry" wrote:
In a message dated 99-07-17 20:10:05 EDT, John wrote:
>
We went from a 100 mhz, 16mhz RAM to a 400 mhz 128 mhz RAM and saw anenormous gain in speed and ease of use. What's next?
B&R
=== Hi, Ray & Betty. Isn't it wonderful??!! WIth myself going from 75 mHz, 8 megs RAM to 450 mHz, 64 megs RAM, all I can think of being next would be to just THINK of a web site, and it would appear! :-) Or, better yet: Just THINK of all the missing ancestors we need to find, and the pc would go find them!! John
John C. CarterPaternal surnames: Carney, Carty/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston, Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor, Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Morgan, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Ridgeway, Wyatt
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Opinions wanted.../Privacy issueDate: 99-07-25 00:35:41 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')CC: spiff@ ('Carter, John C.')
From: "John C. Carter"
On: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 19:09:15 -0400 "John C. Carter" wrote:
"Hello, all. I'm in the midst of practicing uploading FTM reports to my web site, andam wondering about something: Is it considered bad etiquette to post birthdates of living people ongenealogy web site reports? I've just surfed around and checked out a fewsites of different members of this group, and some seem to leave the datesout while most others include them. I realize it would be dangerous (as well as invasive of privacy) to postsuch things as SSN's, medical history, causes of death, certain types ofnotes, etc, and have made efforts to remove this info from my report(s)before posting. But I'm not sure if FTM is capable of removing SOMEbirthdates, without removing ALL birthdates (which would limit the benefits of the report). Thoughts, anyone??"
---------
Then, Ray & Betty Terry provided a paste of an article with some valuable insights. Also, Chuck Counceller provided the info below:
------------
Hi John,
You should be able to delete all birth dates for personswith no death date.I think there is a way to do this but I have never done it.Best to contact FTM support.
Chuck Counceller
----------
Hello, all. Upon investigating this, I came across some information I thought I might share with those of you who are Family Tree Maker users: First of all, many of you may have already realized that if you leave the Death Date field empty, the FTM program assumes that the person is still living. So wherever you're adding new individuals to your file who lived long enough ago that you can be certain they're deceased (otherwise, setting a Guinness record for being 173 years old), you should put "?" or "Unknown" (whatever you've set in your Options) in the Death Date field. (Mine is set such that when I enter a "?" the system changes it to "Unknown"). Fortunately, I had done this with most individuals, but there were the inevitable missed entries. However, there is a method of organizing FTM's index to show individuals in birth date order. After doing this, I just scrolled down to locate all individuals born in the 1800's or prior who did not have a death date. This will let your program know which individuals are deceased with an unknown death date vs. those who are still living. UNfortunately, there is no way in FTM 5.0 to have this translated into leaving living individuals' birth info off of reports being uploaded to the Internet. However, FTM 6.0 (newly released) does allow this. For those of you who have FTM 5.0, the upgrade is only $19.99. (Not sure how much it is for those with earlier versions of FTM). I've just ordered my upgrade, so those of you who might have questions about the performance can ask me them in another week or so. I received this information from the FTM Tech Support listserve. For those of you who are computer gurus (yes, I know you're out there!), there are a couple of alternatives, if you understand the lingo and want to manipulate the GEDCOM's, etc. Here's what Tech Support provided me with:
Good description of the GEDCOM File
The steps one person took to create a web page using GEDCOM
Site listing a number of GEDCOM utilities including one which performs the Privacy function:
Good luck!! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Opinions wanted / Privacy issueDate: 99-07-25 13:35:41 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')CC: spiff@ ('Carter, John C.')
From: "John C. Carter"
In regard to:
-----
"That's called an obituary. The crooks can, and probably do, scan them formother's maiden names and relationships. I know our church makes a practiceof placing a volunteer in the home of a deceased person while the funeral isunderway. Too many break-ins of homes probably empty as the occupantsattend the advertised funeral."B&R
-----
"Some of the culprits are even smoother. They figure out which houses areempty during probate, which might take months."Ned Heite
-----
"They steal even before then... many times they look up our old folks...especially if they think they live alone and ask to look through their housesposing or being antique dealers..."Stacey
-----
Comment: Oh, my God! This is incredible! Raiding someone's house while everyone is at the funeral...?! Never thought of this one, but sadly it does evoke a sick logic. I guess this is where we insert the "what is the world coming to" thoughts.... Anyway, thanks everyone, for the opinions and these stark revelations. John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Songo/Carter/Durham in KYDate: 99-07-28 07:03:54 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')CC: spiff@ ('Carter, John C.')
From: "John C. Carter"
On: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:45:07 -0500 "Albert Thrasher" wrote:
"In my searchof records in Bourbon County, Kentucky, I have come upon some surnamesmentioned on this list, i.e., SONGO, CARTER, DURHAM, etc. < snip >But I would like to know, from anyone on this list, if thereare any oral or documented accounts of migrations of Songos, Carters andDurhams from Delaware to Kentucky?"
Hi, Albert. Just a short note to say that I, personally, have not heard of any individuals or groups of our migrating to the Kentucky area from the Delaware area. But this certainly doesn't mean it didn't occur. My mother's father's family came from Kentucky (Lincoln County), but my mother's side is unconnected with all of our Delaware-area research (except for a distant possibility of a Munce/Munsey connection back in the 1700's). Good luck! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Delmarva MorgansDate: 99-08-01 20:13:45 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: bmorg@ ('Roland R. Morgan')CC: spiff@ ('Carter, John C.'), Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hi, Roland. It's nice to hear from you again. (You and I corresponded in August of 1998, and again last December). Thanks very much for the Morgan report. You've definitely flushed it out a lot since our last correspondence. Whereas it's intriguing that your Morgans were also in the Kent County, DE area, so far I still cannot perceive any connection between your Morgans and mine. However, I am once again cc'ing other researchers who may see something I've missed. (These are the same researchers I cc'd last year, but now we are all part of large group that has its own listserve entitled "Mitsawokett"). There is also a web site for Mitsawokett, run by a husband-and-wife team who are members of this research group, but it does not yet have a page devoted to Morgans. However, another one of the researchers in our group, Lynn Jackson, also has a web site and it does have a Morgan page. Go to this site, click on "Families," then on "Morgan." You will also see your Marmaduke Morgan described there, although a connection has not yet been established:
Let's stay in touch, as there may yet be a connection. Thanks again for the message! John P.S. Under your report, #9 George Morgan is described as having lived in "Leipsig," DE. I think you are referring to the town which is spelled "Leipsic." Just a helpful tidbit.... :-) P.P.S. Marmaduke had a sons named both Jonathan and John??
John C. CarterPaternal surnames: Bailey, Carney, Carty/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston, Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor, Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Joy, Morgan, Morris, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Orem, Ridgeway, Wyatt
Subj: [Mitsawokett] FTM 6.0 upgradeDate: 99-08-01 21:08:03 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all. Well, I received my FTM 6.0 upgrade yesterday, and have checked out the "Privacy" function. It works great, except for one dubious side-effect: For those individuals still living, it changes the word "married" to "met" (which you FTM users will recognize was the default word that earlier versions of FTM used for describing individuals who were NOT married). Feeling that some people would find it offensive, inappropriate, or at the very least inaccurate to imply that they were not married when they indeed were, I wrote to FTM Tech Support and asked why this was occurring. One of the technical people responded, "Welcome to the world of FTM 6.0 programming logic." Another one stated, "These days many people have children and are not married. Some people take offense at having their relationship known." A third responded that this had been discussed on the Tech Support listserve some time back, and advised me to read their archives. I did so, and apparently it was a very in-depth discussion over the pro's and con's. Many users were adamant that they did not approve of "met." Techs countered that allowing both the words "married" and "met" had caused problems in the past when users posted offspring information of unmarried ("met") couples on the net, when "met" was a clear implication of being unmarried. They said their intention was to clear this up by noting ALL living people as having/being "met." Finally, someone suggested the obvious: changing the program to display "met/married," and the techs (after a revelation of "out of the mouths of babes") agreed this was the best suggestion. Now, I guess we'll have to get FTM 7.0 to get the correction...! Oh well, you can't win for losing. John
John C. Carter
Subj: ObituariesDate: 99-08-02 22:08:07 EDTFrom: spiff@atlanticnet (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Betty & Ray. Just to let you know, I just completed getting the obituaries ready to send to you, and they will go out in tomorrow's mail. (Finally!) I wanted to apologize in advance for doing such a haphazard job of making notes for them, and with no letter included, but I figured it would be better to get them sent to you this way, rather than for them to continue to sit on my floor while I procrastinate! When you receive them, let me know if you have any questions as to who they are, or any other details, and I will let you know. You may have several of them already.... Thanks! As usual, you are doing a superb job with the web site! I hope to have an updated Hardcastle report on my web site soon.... John
Subj: RE: ObituariesDate: 99-08-04 06:59:22 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Well, that may be true, but I just didn't want to give the impression of "taking back what I've been sharing" up until now. Or of trying to "upstage" your postings or anything of that nature. Also, I plan to eventually have MANY reports posted on my page, perhaps one for each and every of my lines. Obviously many of these paternal lines (not just the Hardcastle) will duplicate/overlap the reports you've posted. I just chose the Hardcastle report as a starting point. Granted, though, not as many in our group are descended from the Hardcastles as with most of the other lines you have on your site. The only ones who would be descended from the Hardcastles would be those individuals who are descended from Hopewell U. Carter (1857-1933). JCC
Subj: RE: William Dean 1803, etc.Date: 99-08-04 17:51:05 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: dwfrft@ ('Fisher, Don W.')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn'), RomeoJA@ ('Romeo, Joseph')
Hi, Don. I afraid I don't have any new info to contribute to your massive and impressive effort. The amount of work and research that you and Joseph (and others) have contributed is staggering, not to mention mind-boggling. But I didn't want to just let this message pass without at least some type of response. I believe you included me, not necessarily because I'm descended from the Deans (and definitely interested in them), but because my name (or rather, my GEDCOM) appears as a source on Ray & Betty's report that we've been discussing. Although my name is there as having contributed the GEDCOM, it was a combination of all the researchers of the list at that time who had contributed to it. I just checked my FTM for the people in question (Phinea, etc), and I see that I obtained this information from Lynn. This was contained in her report, "My Dean Family in Kent County, DE," dated 12 April 1997. However, if I come across anything that may be of interest or relevance, I will surely pass it along. Thanks again for all your marvelous work! John
Subj: RE: My Ridgeway CousinsDate: 99-08-05 19:36:04 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: seen1@worldnet. ('Charles Seeney')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Chuck. Thanks for the message. I'm not sure what genealogy page you're referring to. I did set up a Family Tree Maker home page recently, but there are currently no reports on it. (I did temporarily--overnight--have a Hardcastle report on it a week or two ago, but I removed it for Privatizing maintenance). Could you be referring to the Mitsawokett web site? That is Ray & Betty Terry's web site, not mine.... (I did share info with them, however, and they have my name credited in certain spots). However, I am still interested in your Ridgeway connection. I just checked my FTM...I don't have a Lola Ridgeway Archer, but I have a Lola Ridgeway Seeney--wife of Forrest Seeney (in turn, the son of James Clifford Seeney--your grandfather, right?) Do I have something wrong with this connection? I thought I had got this info from you, or perhaps from Dave Seaney who got it from you..... ??? Thanks for the info! John
Subj: RE: Sammons/Clark/DurhamDate: 99-08-05 21:49:08 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: ISAMMONS@ ('Sammons, Isabella W.')CC: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Isabella. Thanks for your message. I'm glad you found useful information for your research. Although I am not a Sammons descendant, I have many Sammons relatives who are related to me through other lines, centered in or around the Kent County, Delaware area. I'm assuming you came across the information on the Mitsawokett web site. This site is actually not managed by me, but rather by some cousins of mine: Ray & Betty Terry. (cc'd on this message). I gave them a GEDCOM file when they were initially setting up the web site, so they have my name & e-mail address listed as a credit there. However, much of the information in my GEDCOM was actually shared to me by other members of our research group. Are you a member of the Mitsawokett research group? We have a large number of us, who are all doing research on various inter-connected families of the Kent County area, with connections to Sussex County, DE, some Maryland Eastern Shore counties, as well as South Jersey, Philadelp hia, and some branches who emigrated to Michigan, among other places. If you are interested, we would love to have you as a member of the listserve group. As for Nehemiah's birth date, I obtained this (1840) date from another research cousin, Preston Sammons. I'm not sure where he obtained it from, as opposed to your 1880 and 1900 census info showing him as being born in 1836. I am cc'ing this message to the Mitsawokett list group, so Preston will be able to see your message as well. Thanks for supplying the maiden name of Armwell Sammons Sr's' wife. I previously only had her first name, Mary. We also have a couple of Clark researchers, who may be able to make a connection with Mary's father, John Clark, and also some Durham researchers (of which I am one), who may be able to connect with Mary's mother, Maria Durham Clark. Interesting that your father-in-law's name was John Wesley Sammons. I had a grand-uncle named John Wesley Carter, and a great-great-granduncle named John Wesley Cott. There is also a John Wesley Harmon in my FTM file, and I believe there were other John Wesleys as well (all undoubtedly named after the famous theologian, evangelist and Methodism founder). Do you know the names of the parents of John Clark or of Maria Durham? Again, thanks for your message, and for your sharing of information!! Sincerely, John
Subj: Mitsawokett creditsDate: 99-08-05 21:50:40 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Hope all is well with you. I wondered if we might think about re-visiting the subject of having my name portrayed so prominently on some of the family history reports on the Mitsawokett site? Especially in light of the messages I keep receiving from people who seem to think that it's my personal website (such as the two messages I responded to this evening). Don't get me wrong--I am flattered and honored that you give credit to others on your site. But, as we've discussed before, a lot of this information was contributed to me by others, prior to my sending you the GEDCOM, and I can't seem to shake the feeling that they're getting short-changed somehow. When we discussed this earlier, in was in direct reference to the Hardcastle report, when it was initially posted. Back then, with my slow computer, I must confess I didn't visit the Mitsawokett site very often (or any other web sites, for that matter), because it took just too dang long for my pc to get to them. So I had assumed that my name had only been prominently displayed on just the Hardcastle page, and didn't really think about the other pages. Now, I see it on several pages, (or, maybe I had just forgotten this...?...). Anyway, I'm not sure what to suggest. On a couple of the reports, such as Cott, or McCarty, most of the work is probably mine (unless you've added a lot since the submission of my GEDCOM). But with other reports, such as Sammons, Daniel Durham, etc, there was much contribution by others as well. Significantly, Preston Sammons contributed to the Sammons file, and Lynn Jackson's and Debbie Unger's research played a large role in the Daniel Durham report. Over the years, I have also received a lot of assistance from Lorraine Johnson-Gregg, Rose Ridgeway, MayBelle Durham-Bordley, Harry Muncey, and not to mention yourselves. Do you think we should change the credit on some of these pages? Just wondering.... Thanks, John
John C. CarterSubj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Sammons/Clark/Durham/MunceDate: 99-08-06 21:17:09 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: ISAMMONS@ ('Sammons, Isabella W.')CC: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hi, Isabella. Thanks again for your message. I meant to mention yesterday that I am intrigued by your statement of Nehemiah Sammons having two wives. I don't have this information. My records (from Preston Sammons) have a listing of 9 children of Nehemiah Morris Sammons and Mary Elizabeth Munce: 1. Amanda Sammons, b. 1864 2. Esther A. Sammons, b. 1865 3. Mary E. Sammons, b. 1866 4. Isaac S. Sammons, b. Oct, 1867; married Rebecca A. ______, b. Sep, 1876. 5. James Sammons, b. 1873. 6. Armer/Armwell Sammons, Sr., b. Sep, 1875; married Mary (Mary Elizabeth Clark), b. Oct, 1876. 7. Perry T. Sammons, b. 1877; married Bertha D. Dean, b. 1887. 8. Lilly M. Sammons, b. Dec, 1879; married Harry Wright. 9. William Garfield Sammons, b. May, 1882; married Ella Durham, b. 1888. Are you stating that you show some of these children having a different mother? Or are there more children besides these? I'm confused, since you mentioned Mary Elizabeth Munce, and Elizabeth Muntz. These sound like one-and-the-same wife to me. "Muntz" and "Munce" are two different spellings of the same family name. Other branches became "Muncey" or "Munson," but they've all been shown to be descended from Robert Munce Sr, b. ca. 1770 (father of the Robert Munce who married Jemina/Jemima Handsor). My records show that Mary Elizabeth Munce Sammons was born 08 Sep 1841, married Nehemiah (b. 1840) in 1861, and that she passed away 08 Nov 1914. Nehemiah did live 10 more years, until 17 Mar 1924, but he would have been approx. 74 years old at Mary Elizabeth's death in 1914, not exactly the age to be re-marrying and starting a new family. Please advise if you have any clarification on the above data. What was John Wesley Sammons' wife's name? I was trying to find a "nearby" connection to a Carney family to determine who might have been the "cousins" your husband remembered visiting. Lydia Ann Munce, sister of Mary Elizabeth Munce, "married" Benjamin Sammons (brother of Nehemiah) and had a daughter named Susan Munce/Sammons who married Thomas Carney. The children of Thomas and Susan would have been 2nd cousins to your husband's father John Wesley. As far as joining the research group, don't worry about having to contribute anything. You're welcome to just observe, if you'd like. But your comments would be welcome as well. If you're interested in learning more about the group first, go to this site, and you can view some samples of our messages:
If interested, you should be able to click on "Subscribe to this community," and be instructed from there. Permission will need to be granted by our list moderator, Ned (Edward) Heite, which is no problem, but I'm not exactly sure what steps the link will instruct you to do.... (The "Normal" version will supply you with individual messages as they are sent by members; the "Digest" version will send a collective list of several messages, usually once every 24 hours or so). If you have any problems or questions, let me know. Thanks again!! Good luck, John P.S. I will send you a separate message regarding some info on Mary Elizabeth Munce Sammons' death certificate, which was part of a discussion among group members a while back.
John C. Carter
Subj: FW: Sammons/Clark/Durham/MunceDate: 99-08-09 21:11:35 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Sending this along for your info. I had asked Isabella in a separate message if she had received the replies the other day, since I couldn't tell by looking at the digest-list whether or not everyone had cc'd her separately as well (since she's not a member of the list yet). (She's applied, and permission is pending, so she will be on the list soon). She told me she hadn't received your message, so I just forwarded it to her. Haven't had a chance to look at the info below in detail yet. I need to check the posting in the Mitsawokett site, to see if indeed there are two wives listed for Nehemiah, and see if there's some confusion there. I might be missing something.... Do your records verify that there were two wives, rather than Mary Elizabeth Munce/Muntz Sammons being one person listed two ways? Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----From: Sammons, Isabella W. [SMTP:ISAMMONS@]Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 9:20 AMTo: 'spiff@'Subject: RE: Sammons/Clark/Durham/Munce
Greetings, Thank you for the reply - sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you. I use the computer at work (with permission) so I don't see messages over the weekend.
I got the information about Nehemiah having two wives from the Mitsawokett site, Family History, Issac Sammons Family. It shows Mary E. being the first wife (and mother of Perry) and Elizabeth E. being the second wife and mother of William Garfield.
My father-in-law, John Wesley gave the name of his grandmother as Elizabeth Muntz (he spelled Muntz for me). Therefore, I assumed (not looking at the dates) that Mary E. was the first wife, and the mother of Armwell Sammons (since Armwell was born before William) and that Elizabeth Muntz must have been the step-grandmother of John Wesley Now I see that the Census records don't support this view, because the 1880 Record shows Nehemiah's wife named Elizabeth, and the 1900 show his wife to be Mary E. As you say, they seem to be the same woman. Mary E. may have been called "Elizabeth."
Thank you for the information on the children of Nehemiah. I did not haveAmanda and Esther A. John Wesley had mentioned an Amanda to me as one ofhis aunts but I did not find her listed as a daughter in the 1880 census.She would probably have been married and listed elsewhere. I did not knowabout Esther.
John Wesley Sammons' wife's name is Katherine Elizabeth Lee. She was fromEvanston, Illinois. She went to a teacher's college in Pennsylvania and wassent to Delaware to teach. Her mother, Bertha Foster, is said to have beenraised on an Indian Reservation in Wisconsin. So the Carney cousins areprobably from Benjamin's side.
Thank you for the second message and the death certificate information.
Thank you, too, for your encouragement in joining the research group. Iwould like to do so and have subscribed to the list (waiting forpermission). Several others in your group have e-mailed me and I will replyto each until the list system is working.
Take care, Isabella
Subj: [Mitsawokett] FW: History of Delaware by Thomas ScharfDate: 99-08-11 21:52:47 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all. Most of you know about Scharf's "History of Delaware," but I've never had a copy, and have only seen a few pages here and there. I found the listings referenced below rather interesting, since they include a Ridgeway/Ridgaway, a Coursey and a Jackson. Thought some of you might find this of interest. Does anyone know if this William H. Ridgeway/Ridgaway is any connection to our line(s)? Thanks,
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] FW: History of Delaware by Thomas ScharfDate: 99-08-11 22:00:42 EDTFrom: eheite@ (Ned Heite)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@
From: eheite@ (Ned Heite)
John and I both must have seen the same list of names, which apparentlyrelates to the old Murderkill Hundred, now divided into North and SouthMurderkill as well as part of West Dover. It was on the Sussex root webtoday.
Scharf's history has been reprinted, and volume one is sold out. Volume twoand the index volume were, at least until recently, available from FamilyLine in Westminster, Maryland. Volume one is the general history. Volumetwo is counties and hundreds. It is a gold mine of lists of taxables,tracts, and other stuff.
I had an original 1888 set, and my volume two was ragged. Volume one isseldom used and therefore fairly easy to find in the used market. So myworking set is now a mixture of the original volume 1 and new volume 2 andindex.
Archaeologists readily identify the worst of the profession. We agree that _(____)_ the worst incompetents share 3 attributes:/ | 1. They have fresh ideas; _===__/ Baby || 2. They write coherent prose; | ___ ___ || 3. They are not in the room. o||| . \_____/ . \_| ____________________________ _ _ \_/_______\_/_____ Ned Heite, Camden, DE
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Jackson/Perkins CemeteryDate: 99-08-12 07:04:24 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hi, Wy. No, I did not receive it. I saw your message posted, but it was entirely blank in the digest version that I receive. Any attachments will not show up for those who receive the digest version, only for those who receive individual messages. If you wish everyone to see it, it will need to be pasted in as text (or sent off-list to those who desire it). (I would like to receive it, if you can send it to my individual e-mail address). Thanks, Cousin John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Jackson/Perkins CemeteryDate: 99-08-12 21:13:05 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hi, Wy. Thanks very much for sharing the information about the cemetery! Great work! I have a few questions about who some of the people are, etc. (If you don't know, perhaps someone else on the list might). I'm not sure who the following people are (i.e., how they connect to the others): R. Calvin Jackson Grace Carey Sammons (sister of Bertha M. Carey Jackson)....who is the Sammons (first name?) that Grace married? "Tom" Clifford T. Jackson Joseph H. Perkins Nancy Perkins, wife of George Perkins, son of Warren & Jane Perkins Janie Perkins Thompson Fred D. Perkins Harry F. Perkins Norman E. Perkins Brooks T. Perkins & Dorothy Myrtle Perkins
Also, your note between "Drector" Perkins & Wingate Perkins said "Ellen Perkins Jackson's parents Alda, Gladys, Sylvia." I had Lucy N. Perkins (wife of Nathaniel C. Jackson) listed as their daughter, with Alda & Gladys as Lucy's daughters, right? (I didn't have a Sylvia...) But Lucy & Nathaniel's son Clarence Jackson married Ellen S. Perkins (I didn't have her parents' names), so Ellen can't be a daughter of "Drector" & Wingate, can she? If so, then that would mean that Clarence Jackson married his own Aunt (sister of his mother). Am I missing something?? Also, was the "Drector" spelling very clear on the tombstone? In my notes (from Lorraine) I had her name spelled as "Doretor." Of course, we know how spellings can vary greatly..... Again, thanks for sharing the wonderful research!! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Family of John Clark & Maria DurhamDate: 99-08-12 21:57:50 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all. After reading Joseph Romeo's and Ray & Betty Terry's very informative posts of August 07, providing data on the family of John Clark and Maria Durham, I had a couple of questions:
- - - - -
Regarding Henry Durham & Rachel Hughes:
Is this Rachel Hughes the same as the Rachel Hughes, sister of John Hughes b. ca. 1832, and daughter of Benjamin Hughes and Maria Miller? (Maria Miller, daughter of Debrix Miller and Sarah Concealler).
- - - - -
Regarding:
"Some children of John & Maria Clark:--Maggie Clark1. Manship inscription: "Maggie Clark died 19 Mar 1877 age 1 yr 19 dys,daughter of J.W. & Maria Clark."
--Any speculation as to why this reference gives John's middle initial as "W," but his marriage record gives his middle initial as "D"?
Thanks! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] FW: Isabella's father-in-law's comment RE: LenapeDate: 99-08-12 21:58:09 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all. I assisted Isabella a couple of days ago with forwarding her message below to Joseph Romeo. But I realized that some of you may find of interest the Lenape reference her father-in-law made regarding his maternal grandmother, Maria Durham Clark (1856-1925). Thanks, John
John C. CarterPaternal surnames: Bailey, Carney, Carty/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston, Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor, Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Joy, Morgan, Morris, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Orem, Ridgeway, Wyatt
-----Original Message-----From: Sammons, Isabella W. [SMTP:ISAMMONS@]Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 9:51 AMTo: 'spiff@'Subject: RE: Mitsawokett messages
Hello John, I did not receive a message from the Ray and Betty Terry. Ireceived Joseph's and Preston's. However, my reply to Joseph came backundelivered with a note that he was not accepted mail from this sender. Hewanted to know if I had any information about Maria Durham or John Clark inaddition to what he had. The only other bit of information I found in mysparse notes of what I understood John Wesley Sammons to say is that Maria(he called her Marie) Durham's mother was born on a Lenape reservation inDelaware between St. George & Newcastle. Would you mind passing this alongto him? Thanks again! Isabella
Subj: RE: Peter H. BecketDate: 99-08-14 10:50:54 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: dwfrft@ ('Donald W. Fisher')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Don. Sorry, but I don't really have too much on this Beckett family. This is what I have:
Peter H. Beckett (1857-1942) and Mary E. Reed (1858-1936) had the following children:
Lula Rae Beckett (b. 1896), m. Wilson Durham, & William James Carter, my grand-uncle. Maymie Caroline Coxie Beckett (b. 02 May 1894), m. William Thomas Durham. Beulah Beckett, m. Levi Street Edna Beckett, m. Armel Sammons Ola Beckett (b. 1902), m. Return Carney, my grandmother's first cousin. Kenneth Beckett, m. Blanche Morgan, & Mary Jane Carter, my grand-aunt. Thomas Beckett, m. Birdella Seeney. Jeffrey Beckett, m. Sarah Elizabeth Mosely.
No, I have no information on either the parents of Peter H. Beckett or of Mary E. Reed. In fact, I can't even find the source of the list of children, above. I've undoubtedly had this information for a while, back before I began entering all sources into my FTM. I did find that my info on the dates for Peter & Mary, as well info about Maymie & William and their children, came from Ray & Betty Terry. Judging by the dates, it appears the Thomas G Beckett (1891-1981) you mentioned might be the same as the son Thomas of Peter & Mary. The same holds true for the W. Kenneth (1878-1938) you mentioned, although the dates are a little farther off. I don't have dates for the Kenneth Beckett who married my grand-aunt Mary, but Mary was born in 1892, so it's theoretical that she could have a husband 14 years older than she. The Greensberry Beckett you mentioned (1845-1865) could have been a brother to Peter, but this is just guessing at this point. I am cc'ing Ray & Betty, and perhaps they have some data that might connect these Becketts together. Let me know if you have any more questions, and whether you come across anything that might indicate if the Edna Beckett Sammons and the Florence E. _____ Sammons are one-and-the-same person. Thanks! John
-----Original Message-----From: Donald W. Fisher [SMTP:dwfrft@]Sent: Saturday, August 14, 1999 12:24 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Peter H. Becket
Hi, John.
You wrote on 8/12/99:
< Does anyone know if...Edna Beckett, daughter of Peter H. Beckett (1857-1942) & Mary E. Reed(1858-1936), and who married an "Armel Sammons" ... >
This must be the Peter H. Beckett and Mary E. Beckett buried at Immanuel Union Methodist Church Cemetery in Cheswold. Do you know the parents of Peter H. Beckett?
Also buried there are Greensberry Beckett (12-23-1845 - 4-23-1865), Thomas G. Beckett (1891-1981), and W. Kenneth Beckett (1878-1938). Do you know how these others relate to Peter (Greensberry particularly)? Do you know how any or all of them relate to an older Greensbury seen in the 1840 and 1850 censuses married and with a family?
Any thoughts or clues would be most appreciated.
Don
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: Peter H. BecketDate: 99-08-14 13:43:50 EDTFrom: AquaBetty@Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@
From: AquaBetty@
In a message dated 99-08-14 10:50:54 EDT, you write:
>
Thomas appears in the SSDI. We have a Thomas listed as a child of Peter and Mary Beckett (for both of whom we have no parents.) A trip to the Delaware Archives is needed to look up the vital records of the entire family -- along with a visit to the Federal census. These questions should be able to be easily answered.
We visited with Colette Carney Wheatley, great-granddaughter of Peter and Mary Beckett, at Grace Davis' funeral. Colette was the godchild of Wilson and Grace Davis. Later, at her home, we copied the information from Durham and Reed bibles (both printed 1892). This has been keyed into PAF but not into Word. There was no further light shed on the Beckett family, however.
Our notes for Peter Beckett -- nothing more than you already have:
1. Interview with Corrine Durham Dean, 5/6/98, Dover, DE.
2. GEDCOM file from John Carter 3/98 (spiff@)
3. Manship Cemetery grave: 1857 - 1942.
4. Family of Peter Beckett in (unspecified) census, Grace Davis' notes (no ages given in the notes):
Peter HusbandMary E. WifeWaldon K. SonJeffery H. SonThomas G. SonMamie C. DauLulu R. DauBeulah M. DauClarence E. SonOla E. DauEmma Dau-in-law
Someday we will get back to the Archives and we will add the Beckett list to investigate.
B&R
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Gouldtown documentary filmDate: 99-08-18 23:00:02 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all. As most of you know, of the families who emigrated from Delaware to New Jersey, some of them either settled in the Gouldtown area, or became inter-twined with other lines who descended from the original settlers of Gouldtown. Either way, many of the relatively modern-day Gouldtown residents have strong ties with the Lenape, Nanticoke, and/or aka "Mitsawokett" research folks. For this reason, Debbie Unger's curiosity was piqued a few years ago when she heard about the existence of a 1988 documentary film entitled "Gouldtown: A Mulatto Settlement," directed by the well-respected (and now deceased) director Kathleen Collins Prettyman. Having heard about the film from a cousin, Debbie in turn told me about it in early 1997, and of her desire to locate a copy. Debbie sent me a photocopy of a brief biography of Ms. Prettyman, which included the paragraph, "Born in 1942, Collins grew up in Jersey City, NJ. Her family, however, had deep roots in Gouldtown, NJ, a setting she later incorporated into her 1988 film 'Gouldtown: A Mulatto Settlement.'" Always enjoying a challenge, I decided to take on the task of locating the film, with the intent of surprising Debbie with it once located. During my research, I discovered that Ms. Prettyman was very renowned in her field, having been described as "a pioneer black woman independent filmmaker," who "left behind a rich legacy of filmic, fictional, and theatrical works which serve as a ... testament to the breadth of her artistry." Ms. Prettyman died from cancer at the young age of 46. In the course of my learning about the career of this gifted individual, I became more eager than ever to assist (and surprise) Debbie in her quest. Alas, all research stories do not end with a happy ending. After over two years of on-again, off-again attempts at locating the film, it appears that the film NEVER even existed at all. Over the course of tracking down clues, I spoke to Prof. Ayoka Chenzira--head of the communications & video department at City College in New York (and a well-known black filmmaker in her own right--director of "Alma's Rainbow"), Pearl Bowser--a film programmer and personal friend of Kathleen's in Brooklyn, and even Kathleen's widowed husband. Recently, upon following up on clues through the Black Film Center at Indiana University (thanks also to Floyd Handsor, who was also helping Debbie to track this down), the director of the Center suggested I contact Ron Gray in Brooklyn, Kathleen Collins Prettyman's former cinematographer. Well, after calling three different Ron Grays in Brooklyn (the Center wouldn't give me his phone number), and leaving a message for the one who wasn't home, I finally hit pay dirt and received a return call from the correct Ron Gray last Friday night In verifying that he indeed worked with Kathleen, he told me "I filmed everything that she ever worked on." He then informed me that not only was the film not available, it never in fact existed. Although the film was planned as Ms. Prettyman's next piece of work, it "never even made it to the script version." As to why the film was purported to exist, he explained, "in the film business, one needs to promote oneself," (in other words, to start "talk" about a product before it was finished), and that it was "basically a typo error which was never corrected." He described the fact that the film was already being noted as extant when it wasn't yet made as "a running joke between Kathy and myself up until her death." There was one inaccuracy among his statements, however. Upon his query of where I heard about the supposed film, and when I described the photocopied biography containing the phrase "her 1988 film," he started laughing and said that this was funny since Kathleen had "died in 1985." He then thought about it, and corrected himself somewhat, and said, "well, shortly after 1985." The fact is, however, several sources give her death as 9/18/1988, so it was indeed conceivable that she could have created a film in 1988. Nonetheless, it appears that the quest to locate a copy of the documentary has come to an unfortunate end. I gave the sad news to Debbie on the phone over the weekend, and thought I would pass it along to those here on the list as well. If anyone has any questions, please let me know.
The two films that Kathleen Collins Prettyman completed were: "The Cruz Brothers and Mrs. Malloy" 1980. "Losing Ground," 1982, a dramatic feature which won the prize for First Feature at the Portuguese International Film Festival in 1988. She received grants from the National Endowment for the Arts, the American Film Institute, and the New York State Council on the Arts.
Thanks, John P.S. The town of Gouldtown was featured in an article in "Ebony" magazine in 1952. Sorry, I don't know what month, but I have a photocopy of the article.
John C. Carter
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] Gouldtown documentary filmDate: 99-08-18 23:14:01 EDTFrom: RomeoJA@Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@
From: RomeoJA@
Hi all,
I don't know if I am restating common knowledge here, but there is a book on the Gouldtown community which contains much genealogical information:
Steward, William, and Theophilus G. Steward. Gouldtown, a Very Remarkable Settlement of Ancient Date: Studies of Some Sturdy Examples of the Simple Life, Together with Sketches of Early Colonial History of Cumberland County and Southern New Jersey and Some Early Genealogical Records. Philadelphia: Press of J. B. Lippincott Co., 1913.
A copy of this book is located at the Historical Society of Pennsylvania, which is now reopened after its renovation.
--Joseph.
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Gouldtown documentary filmDate: 99-08-19 07:06:10 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hi, Joseph & all. Thanks for the comments about the Gouldtown book. I should have mentioned it as well. I know that Debbie (Unger) has an original copy, and I myself have a photocopy, but perhaps others on the list haven't heard of it. Although I am by no means capable of making accurate overall comments about the book, I do know that whereas some people find its genealogical (and other) content very valuable, others have noted it as having some errors. Some of those "errors" have been disputed, but only those familiar with the families and evidence involved (and who have documentation to support their research / claims), can make accurate assessments. Again, if anyone has any questions, please let me know. Thanks again, Joseph!! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Dalton SeeneyDate: 99-08-19 20:13:07 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: DL7715@ ('Seaney, Dave')
Hi, Dave.Thanks for the latest edition of "Owen's Offspring" (#20). It was very interesting, as usual.
(For any of you who are Seeney/Seaney researchers and aren't already aware of Dave Seaney's newsletter, named after Owen Seaney, he is currently distributing it via e-mail each month, and it contains some wonderful research pertaining to many Seeney/Seaney lines). Dave can be reached at DL7715@.
One item that intrigued me in this issue was the obituary:
"Another Passing Found On The Internet...Discovered this information last week about a Seeney I had tried to contact recently; Honolulu Star-Bulletin Dalton Emory Seeney, 75, of Honolulu, a retired army officer and computer analyst who owned Sequel Corp., died May 23. He was born in Kenton, Delaware, he is survived by wife Alice; son Russell, a sister and a granddaughter. Service: 7 p.m. Wednesday at Oahu Cemetery Chapel. Call after 6 p.m. Scattering of ashes: 4 p.m. Thursday off Makapuu Beach Park. No flowers. Casual attire."
The name "Dalton Seeney" rang a bell, and I checked my records. Sure enough, it sounds like this could be the same Dalton Seeney who was mentioned in C.A. Weslager's "Delaware's Forgotten Folk."
I've attached the e-mail below that I sent out to several Seeney/Seaney researchers (including yourself, Dave) as well as pre-Mitsawokett list members back in May 1997, which mentions Weslager's Dalton Seeney as being age 18 in ca. 1941. This would make him born ca. 1923. The one in the obituary above (born in Kenton, DE) would have been born ca. 1924. Sounds like a very good possibility for being one-and-the-same Dalton Seeney. Dalton was described by Weslager as a grand-nephew of the James Seeney who was son of James Seeney Sr and Sallie Clark.
For the Michigan researchers: Note also the mention that the below Dalton and his sister at one time lived in Detroit (Wayne County), MI. Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Friday, May 30, 1997 7:05 AMTo: 'bseney@muw.edu'; 'CLLSLL@'; 'cseeney@'; 'DL7715@'; 'Ned Heite'; 'GSpearman@'; 'Jhelmer@'; 'seaney@ccmail..il.us'; 'seaneys@'Subject: Seeney excerpts from the Weslager notes
(A few notes of explanation, for the Seeney family members who are recipients of this message):
Everyone:The following are excerpts from a typewritten document, entitled "Notes by Dr. Weslager." This document is a transcription of an audio tape which was recorded by Dr. C.(Clinton) A. Weslager, and which he presented to the Nanticoke Lenni Lenape Indians of New Jersey. The Indian Center/Museum/Tribal Office of this group is located in Bridgeton, NJ, and although most of the members of this group probably reside in the South Jersey area, most if not all of the members have family ties and/or family origins in the areas of Kent and Sussex Counties, Delaware, and in some parts of Maryland.
Dr. Weslager made the tape (not sure exactly when it was recorded--I've had a copy of the document for about 10 years, and I suspect it is at least a few years older than that) based on notes that he took while researching material and interviewing persons for his book, "Delaware's Forgotten Folk," which was published in 1943 by the University of Pennsylvania Press.
[Just discovered: In a personal letter to me by Dr. Weslager in 1990, he stated that he transferred the notes to the tape and gave it to the tribe at Bridgeton during the writing of his book "The Nanticoke Indians--Past and Present," which I now see was published by the University of Delaware Press in 1983. But the notes themselves date from the period of research prior to his earlier, 1943 book].
[Also, for those of you who may not be aware of the Delaware Seeneys, and of their residence in the Delaware mixed-blood community, there are various racial-related comments following, and you may wish to view these in the context of the social "climate" of the period (1940's), and to note that one of the objectives of Weslager was to determine/document if this isolate group was of Native American descent. Hence, some of the remarks or comments may reflect a different attitude when compared with today's standards. JCC]
Anyway, there are several mentions of Seeneys, and I have tried to repeat them all here as follows:
[September 20, 1941]. "I met Orville Seeney's wife whose appearance seemed Indian or Spanish revealing no black characteristics whatsoever. I also talked [to] and photographed three girls who accompanied her."
[circa November, 1941]. "I interviewed John Carney. John was an ex-prize fighter and then was in his 80's....He said he remembered when Jim Seeney ame to Cheswold from Maryland. Prior to that there were no Seeney's in Cheswold.
[circa November, 1941]. "I had more discussion with Delores and Dalton Seeney. Delores was a young girl 14 or 15 and Dalton was 18. To all appearances they were white. They both had deep brown eyes, straight black hair. He was a very handsome lad, looked French. They were excluded from the White High Schools. Dalton had graduated from the Colored High School operated by the State. They both formerly lived in Detroit where they were treated as whites. I photographed them. They were curious about their ancestry and said the matter had often been discussed among them. They didn't like to associate with Blacks but were forced to do so. They had to sit with Blacks in the movie houses and were not permitted to eat in White restaurants, yet they looked to me exactly as white persons and reacted with white mans feelings. I was deeply moved by these two people. Delores had been asked for dates by Negro classmates[;] when she refused she was called a snob and treated with much dis[d]ain."
[circa November, 1941]. "Dalton Seeney and I drove to see Nepolitan [Napoleon] Morgan[;] he was at one of his son's homes, Nepolitan was 81, he was the oldest Morgan alive, he said that all of his father's kin except his own children were all deceased. His father was James Morgan and his mother was Heneritta [Henrietta] Carter. She was a 1/2 blood Indian and her mother was a full blood Indian[;] she was from Maryland but he wasn't sure where, he thought it might be a town called Hillsboro....I then interviewed James Seeney, he is the oldest Seeney living and the Grand Uncle of Dalton. James is the son of James Senior and his mother was a Clark[.] James Jr. is one of six sons[:] John, Samuel, F[r]ederick, William, James, [&] Joseph Seeney. James Senior's mother was Rhoda Moore before she married into the Seeney family, and was said to have been a white woman. She appears to be a relative of the white Moore family of Cheswold. James is a very patriarchical man, white silky hair, white mustache and a yellowish complexion and very religious. He has eaten no meat for 40 years as a part of his faith. He is a carpenter and has worked hard all his life, he said his father and grandfather were both from the neighborhood of Cheswold and the Seeney's did not come from Maryland as I had previously heard, he said he had heard of Indian blood in his family but couldn't contribute any important information
James Seeney told me that his brother F[r]edrick Seeney founded the Adventist Church in Cheswold about 35 years ago. This [time of interview] was 1941. When I recorded this [?] and that the Rev. Elder Frank, a white man, held a revival meeting in a tent in Kenton, Delaware, Seeney got religion at this meeting and brought it back to Cheswold. At first only the Seeney family were Adventist, but the faith spread to other families. The Forrest Grove Adventist Church has about 36 members. This story about the origin of the Adventist was confirmed to me by G. A. Mosely."
[December 20, 1941]. "I stopped to pick up Dalton Seeney, photographed Dalton and his mother. Dalton says that Ruben Seeney, his father's Uncle, that's a brother of Jim Seeney[,] claims that his father was part Indian. We went to see James Dean, an excellent Indian type, the best Indian I've seen on this peninsula, he says that one of the Durhams way back married an Indian and that the Munceys were Indian. Durhams had come over from England. The Indians that they married were not wild Indians, but he guesses they just lived there."
[End of excerpts]
< there was more to the message, which was actually sent as a response to an earlier message from Chuck Seeney. Included was a speculative family outline based on the above, as well as comparisons against Chuck's data, and some info re: connection to the Deans. I will gladly forward the rest to anyone who is interested. JCC >
Subj: FW: Dalton SeeneyDate: 99-08-20 19:39:50 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty. For your info. John
-----Original Message-----From: DL7715@ [SMTP:DL7715@]Sent: Friday, August 20, 1999 7:05 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Dalton Seeney
John,Last year I contacted, by phone, Dalton's niece in Michigan. Her name is Kathy Usilton if I remember correctly. (I'm typing this at 6 AM) At that time her mother (Dolores Seeney) had just arrived to spend 2 weeks. She is Dalton's sister mentioned in the Weslager book and told me he was in Hawaii. I talked about an hour with them convincing them I was actually a family researcher and giving them a run down on what I had and what they could help me on. In fact, that night I ran down to a local zerox place and copied everything I had and mailed it to them. I received an e-mail from Kathy via another family member and it said her mother really enjoyed the material and they talked a lot about it.Unfortunately I never heard from them again and a future attempt at contacting her failed. I should try again because I just untangled 3 early Seeney families (James, Washington and Samuel) that I'm sure were brothers but 2 passed as White and 1 was always listed Mulatto/Black. In fact it will probably be in the next, or a soon, issue of Owen's Offspring.
Dave
Subj: RE: Garfield MosleyDate: 99-08-20 22:18:55 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@'), Bephi@ (Bephi@)CC: DL7715@ ('Seaney, Dave')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Interesting. Something similar occurred on my mother's side as well. The fact that Garfield was born 24 Jul 1885, but Annie & Charles weren't married until 04 Jan 1888 would seem to lend credence to the rumor. What does Garfield's death certificate list for his father's name? Has there been anything to substantiate the rumor? Thanks, John
Subj: First report on my web pageDate: 99-08-20 23:16:15 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty. I've just added my Hardcastle report to my FTM web page. What a challenge!! It has pretty-much fried my brain in trying to make sure that I got all the "Private" information entered/omitted correctly, as well as make sure the report contains the right items, etc. I was going to add a lot more Hardcastle info to it, from my cousin Tom Hardcastle's GEDCOM, but I gave up. It was too daunting a task. He has over 1500 individuals in his file (of course, probably not all descended from the direct line), and although a lot of our information overlaps, it would take forever to go through and compare his file against mine, individual by individual. I'll try to do this little by little, as time permits.... I was hoping to have it be a good resource for other Hardcastle researchers out there, since nearly all Hardcastle lines in the USA are descended from this same progenitor. Anyway, when you have a moment, could you please take a look at the site, and let me know how it looks to you? I really appreciate it. Once I'm sure everything is OK, I'll announce it to the list. I might add a couple of other reports over the weekend as well. (Small ones!) Thanks! John It is located at:
Subj: RE: SeeneysDate: 99-08-21 10:15:12 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: DL7715@ ('DL7715@')CC: AquaBetty@ (AquaBetty@)
Hi, Dave. Just received your message. Thanks for the info! As for Preston, yes, Ray (Betty's husband) and Betty and myself are very familiar with him. He is a member of the Mitsawokett list, and has contributed a lot of Sammons info as well as other info. Thanks again, John
Subj: RE: First report on my web pageDate: 99-08-21 22:52:57 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Thanks for taking the time to check it out, and to add the links. As for a surname list, apparently this is not an option with FTM web pages. I will continue checking into it. (By the way, what does "KISS" mean??) Thanks again, John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Saturday, August 21, 1999 2:53 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: First report on my web page
Ok, John -- a KISS report. We could not find a list of surnames in the Hardcastle report. Did we overlook it?
We changed
in the following areas: Family Sites links to your genealogy page and Family Reports -- Hardcastle -- links to your Hardcastle report.
Keep it up! The more the merrier.
B&R
Subj: Re: First report on my web pageDate: 99-08-21 23:28:23 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
Keep It Simple, Stupid = KISS
It really helps to keep the pages fast to load and to be straightforward in access to the various sections of the report -- to be simple.
We may be putting too many graphics on the site, causing extended loading times to those with slow modems. We have not received any complaints, however.
Just a suggestion. PAF is now free and is able to convert a database to a web page.Our James Dean report was done in PAF. If you want a full name index and a surname index, we think this is the way to go. GEDCOM your FTM data to PAF and create the web page, then upload to a site offering free home pages.
is the page to go to for free downloads (go to the bottom of the page).
B&R
Subj: P.S. RE: First report on my web pageDate: 99-08-21 23:41:49 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi again, Ray & Betty. I have another question regarding the new link to my web site report from the Mitsawokett Family History Reports page: Since the way the FTM reports are loaded onto my genealogy page (not allowing me any extra text), would it be possible to put a page back "in between" the link on your Family History Reports page, and my Hardcastle report? I'm not sure how much effort/resources this would take.... But I seem to remember that when the Hardcastle link was clicked on, it took you to a page/report at which the top also gave credit to my cousin Tom Hardcastle, who contributed to the research. Would it be possible to have just this credit listing (perhaps with a brief note/explanation of the report's new location), and then have another link below the credit which would then go to my report? If this is asking too much, especially since you're trying to re-design and add to your own page right now, it's no problem. I just thought I'd ask. I was thinking that I might be able to add a credit section to the text part of my main genealogy page, but then this main page is bypassed when the link from Mitsawokett goes directly to the report. I'd appreciate any thoughts and/or suggestions. Thanks!! John
Subj: RE: P.S. RE: First report on my web pageDate: 99-08-21 23:56:04 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Thanks!! In the interim, I received your other message, with the suggestion about PAF. I will try to find some time to look into this as well. Thanks again! John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Saturday, August 21, 1999 11:47 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: P.S. RE: First report on my web page
In a message dated 99-08-21 23:41:49 EDT, you write:
>
We will work on it.
B&R
Subj: RE: Peter H. BecketDate: 99-08-21 23:54:47 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Thanks for the info in your message below. I had forgotten about the clipping in the Bible.
Regarding this part:
"Mary Jane Carter m 3) Parker Muntz, son of Leslie and Maggie (Seeney) Muntz. We have no children listed."
...Do you know how Maggie connected to any of the other Seeneys? (i.e., who her parents were?) Thanks! John
Subj: Re: Peter H. BecketDate: 99-08-22 00:14:55 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 99-08-21 23:54:47 EDT, you write:
>
No. This is info in the GEDCOM from you. It notes a birthdaty of Sep 1867.
We have another Margaret "Maggie" Muntz born 24 Sep 1885 who married Horace Greeley Mosley. Her parents were Samuel Seeney and Mary Ann Muntz " Polly." Maybe the same one married twice?
B&R
Subj: RE: SeeneysDate: 99-08-22 00:10:20 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: DL7715@ ('DL7715@')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Dave. I had a question about Beverley's line. You mentioned:
"Beverley (Seeney) Phipps and Bonnie JoAnne (Seeney) Allison are daughters ofJames Clifford and Ina Jane (Rickman) Seeney."
...Is this James Clifford the son of the James Clifford who married Sarah Elizabeth "Lizzie" Mosely? I had him listed only as "Clifford," but I guess he's a Jr. Can you please confirm? Thanks! John
Subj: FW: PicturesDate: 99-08-22 22:48:09 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Now that I've been getting more or less settled in my new home (still haven't finished unpacking everything, though!), I've been having some chances here and there to dig through a few genealogy-related items that were in one of several "pending" piles. If possible, I would be very interested in trying to get copies of the photos of Robert Dean and Catherine Morgan Dean. I went through my old e-mail messages, and found a few dealing with the subject of their photos (see attached below). I know you mentioned that the original photos appear to have perhaps been lost in a fire in Lorraine Bass' house but that it hadn't been confirmed. You also mentioned the distortion that resulted when Betty had to take photos at an angle to avoid glare from the glass on the originals. But I'm wondering how much clearer your "duplicate-originals" are when compared to the ones I received as attached to the Dean document.... After you tried to correct for the distortion with the computer program, were new negatives created? If it's not too much trouble, (seems like I ask you that a lot--), I was wondering if it would be possible to somehow acquire photographic duplicates or versions? I would be most happy to pay for any costs involved. It's just that the printouts I made from the Dean document you sent are so poor-quality once I printed them. If it's not possible to get photographic dupes, I wonder if you could perhaps re-send them as attachments separately (i.e., not part of a document)? I'm wondering if MSWord restricts them to be black & white, only? Are your originals colored (i.e., "crayola" colored, or sepia-toned)? Thanks very much on this. I really appreciate it. My apologies for asking you for so much lately. By the way, please let me know if there's anything I can do for you in return. Sometimes actions help louder than dollars! :-) Thanks again! John
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Saturday, January 10, 1998 9:45 AMTo: 'AquaBetty'Subject: RE: Pictures
Hi, Betty & Ray. I was looking through this list again, and had a couple of questions/comments.
< snip >
If you would like copies of any that I have, let me know. I will make a list soon, of all the older photos I have. If possible, I would like to get copies of #2 and #3. However, would it be possible to get actual duplicated photos? I would be happy to pay any costs. By the way, I am waiting for a duplicate to come back, of the photo of Mary Ann Dean Coker, and I will send it to you (along with the other stuff we talked about). Also, if convenient, I would like a copy of your group photo, #25. Thanks very much, and be sure to let me know if I can pay for any costs. JCC
----------From: AquaBetty[SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Saturday, January 03, 1998 11:42 AMTo: sstreet@; JACKLYN001@; bugs@; spiff@; 74547.41@; eheite@; jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu; lheite@eldhorn.is; MPierce96@; Jhelmer@; seaney@ccmail..il.us; nlpierce@willie..nj.us; Montigre@; FirehairSS@; belle25@; JonLMillerSr@Subject: Pictures
To all,
We have pictures of the following people to share via e-mail.Let us know which you would like to have & if you can handle .TIF files orphotos attached to MS Word 6.0 documents.
Would like to receive copies of photos of other members of these families.
1. Mahala Songo b abt 1822, dau Isaiah Songo, she m. William Durham b 1818 had ch Jessie, Angelica, Nehemiah, Sarah, James, William
2. Robert Dean 1830-1874, married Catharine Morgan
3. Catharine Morgan 1833-1894, married Robert Dean
< snip >
25. Raymond and Betty Terry family 1996: group photo
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 1:53 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Deans!
John,
Thanks for the kind remarks.
To answer your questions:
1. Robert and Catharine Morgan Dean's pictures are/were owned by Annie DeanMosley, passed on to daughter Beulah Mosley Smith, then to Beulah's daughterLorraine Smith Bass, Lamont, PA. Years ago Betty visited Beulah and copiedthe large framed pictures with a flash camera as they hung on the wall ofBeulah's home. She would not permit them to be removed from the glass, so thepictures were taken at an angle to avoid flash reflections. So the couple area bit distorted in the pictures we have. With Corel Photo Paint we couldadjust the distortion and came up with what Betty thinks is close to theoriginals. Lorraine Bass had a fire in her house about 10 years ago andbelieves all the pictures were lost. However, during our visit she apparentlyliked us and asked her husband to check the basement to see if there were anyleft. He found a large, framed picture of Charles Henry Mosley, Annie Dean'shusband, which she then very generously gave to Betty. Beulah and Lorrainemarried into the African American community and expressed to us that theyfelt rejected by the Moorish community. This may have been why she "found" CHMosley's picture only after meeting with and liking us. There may be moreoriginals there.
< snip >
Happy New Year!
Betty and Ray Terry
Subj: Re: FW: PicturesDate: 99-08-23 13:30:19 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 99-08-22 22:48:09 EDT, you write:
>
Lorraine attended Grace Davis' funeral. There are no more pictures. The originals have been destroyed.
>
No. The distorted photo we have was scanned and adjusted by Corel Photo Paint, then printed and also attached to the document you received. We will have to find the negative for the photo of the original.
There is no cost.
Just went looking for the image in our computer and found that all photos beginning with the letter O and higher are gone! No RobertDean. Have to look thru backups to find it.
B&R
Subj: RE: PicturesDate: 99-08-23 17:39:38 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi Betty & Ray. Thanks for checking. Actually, today I discussed this with a woman at work, with whose husband they run a laminating/plaque/printing/award/etc business on the side. She said they may be able to print the images on photographic paper for me, if I bring the scanned images to them on a disc. I may go over to their shop this evening. In the mean time, I hope you find your images! Don't go to any extra effort on my account, but I guess I would only need further images (scans) if the original scans you have are colored, as opposed to black & white. (The Dean MSWord document contained B&W images). Thanks again for all your help! (I'll let you know the results of my efforts). John
Subj: Re: PicturesDate: 99-08-23 21:37:01 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 99-08-23 17:39:38 EDT, you write:
>
The originals and copies are B&W,
Us
Subj: Anthony Seeney & connectionsDate: 99-08-22 13:13:26 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), rbright4@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie')
Hi, Ray & Betty, and Rose. Question regarding info on the Mitsawokett site (under Descendants of James Dean, d. 1787):
The site has Anthony Seeney (son of Forrest L. Seeney and Lela Mae Ridgeway) as being married to "Wanda Sammons, daughter of Luther "Jake" Sammons & Bertha Caroline Morris." However, Rose Marie Ridgeway had given me Anthony's wife's names as "Wanda Morris." (See message attached below). Rose: Do you agree with "Sammons" as her maiden name? Did you just accidentally carry Morris from her mother's maiden name? Also: Upon doing a search in my FTM to see if I had a Luther "Jake" Sammons, I found a Jacob "Jake" Sammons, also shown as married to Bertha Caroline Morris. Was his full name Luther Jacob "Jake" Sammons? Finally, I have Lela's name spelled as "Lola." (So did Rose Ridgeway below, and so did Chuck Seeney, in a recent message to me).
Thanks, John P.S. Ray & Betty: I also noticed that you have Anthony's sister Karen "Sookie" Seeney listed as two separate people. Per Chuck Seeney, they are the same person. I will forward you the e-mail stating this. (It will have the "Lola" spelling as well).
Subj: FW: My Ridgeway CousinsDate: 99-08-22 13:17:55 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), rbright4@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie')
Hi. Here's the recent message from Chuck, confirming that "Karen" and "Sookie" are one-and-the-same. Thanks! John
-----Original Message-----From: Charles Seeney [SMTP:seen1@worldnet.]Sent: Monday, August 09, 1999 12:30 AMSubject: Re: My Ridgeway Cousins
John...................Comments imbedded in your note. Thanks for the data.
Chuck (OK) Seeney---------------------------------------------------------
John C. Carter wrote:
> Hi, Chuck.> Thanks for the message and the attachment. I was planning to respond to your >message from Friday, but hadn't gotten a chance yet.> I've attached a file of the same family, from the info that I had. As you> can see, some of our information differs. > A few notable examples:>> 1. You have Jeremiah Ridgeway as born ca. 1840, and as married >to DEBORAH Hughes. I had him as born ca. 1865, and as married to HARRIETT >Hughes, daughter of Deborah Cork Hughes (and John Hughes).
My date is approximate. Bill, my cousin, wasn't sure, nor was his mother.
> 2. I didn't have any info on the daughter Lola Ridgeway Archer, sister of> Earl Jeremiah Ridgeway Sr. Is this the line that your cousin descends from?
Yes. Lola Archer was my cousin's grandmother.
> 3. I didn't have that Earl Sr's wife was married to a Johnson before she> married him. I just had her maiden name as Sarah Virginia Carter.
According to Bill's mother, Sarah Virginia Archer, Sarah Carter had married a Johnson
>4. Under the children of Earl Sr and Sarah, you have two more daughters that I >didn't >(Arbana and Margaret). I had that there was an unknown >named daughter who in turn had a daughter named Birdella).
I'll have to check on that. I know Forrest Seeney had a daughter named Birdella before he married Lola
>5. Under the children of Lola Ridgeway and Forrest Seeney, you had an > extra >daughter that I didn't (Karen), and I had extra two children that you didn't (Richard and >Sookie). (Perhaps Sookie was a nickname for Karen??). I'm told this Richard was in >an accident which left him as needing a > wheelchair.
Sookie and Karen are the same. Sookie is a nickname. You are right, I have left out Richard
> 6. I had no information on the Richard Langdon Seeney who married Sarah> Archer. The only sibling I had for Forrest Seeney was your father, James Harold >Seeney.
Richard Langdon and Sarah Archer are my cousin Bill's parents. My father's brothers were Carlton, Richard, Forest,Clifford and Robert. I can send you the data if you like.
> Actually, I'd never done too much work on this branch of the family, so> it's not surprising that I have so little. Most of the information I have came from Rose >Marie Ridgeway, or Lorraine Johnson Gregg. They are the ones who gave me the dates >on Jeremiah and Harriett. Where did you obtain your date info?
The information came from Bill's mother, Sarah who still lives in Dover. Her Mother was Lola Archer and she says her grandmother's name was Deborah Hughes. I'll check again.
> I do have information regarding the parents, etc of Harriett Hughes, if> you'd like that. But, first of all, I guess we need to determine if her name was really >Harriett, or Deborah.... I just checked my records, and this info on the Hughes' was >given to me by Lorraine Johnson Gregg from the Kent County census:>> 1880 Census KC> Hughes John, age 48, farmer> " Deborah, age 42, wife nee Cork> Hester, age 21 dau> Benjamin, age 19, son ( m Joeanne Gould> Andrew, age 17, son ( m Mary Emma Pierce> John, age 13, son ( m Mary Coombs> Harriet, age 11 dau ( m [Jeremiah] Ridgway> Edward, age 7, son ( m Letishia (Lettie) Johnson> Perry, age 4, son ( m Sallie Jackson> James age 1, son ( m Harriet Durham, dau of> Caroline Carney, Daniel Durham>> Perhaps somehow your source got Harriett's mother's name Deborah> substituted for Harriett's as the wife of Jeremiah?
It's possible. But my aunt was very specific about the name. Maybe her name was Harriet Deborah. Yes, I would like to see the Hughes line.
>As for why you don't see a connection between Jeremiah and my William Ridgeway, it's because none has been determined yet. In fact, I'll send a message to >Lorraine and Rose, to see if they have any speculation on this. I just noticed that there is another Jeremiah Ridgway (no "e"), son of John Henry Ridgway (1861-1919) and Minnie Durham (1871-1946). I wondered for a moment whether "your" Jeremiah might be an uncle of this one--thus a brother of John Henry. His age would be about right, but apparently there are two or three census records showing all the children of John Henry's parents (Tilghman Ridgway and Sina Mosely), and there is no elder Jeremiah among them (the children's births range from 1840 - 1867). But I'll still > ask and let you know the result.Would like to see where Jeremaih fits in.
> Anyway, I'd be interested to hear your comments.> Thanks!!> John
Subj: QuestionDate: 99-08-24 21:10:04 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Question: On this page (from Desc. of Wingate Mosley page) there is an Ellen Mosley who married Harry C. Mosley, son of Philip Mosley & Elizabeth:
te_bc1820/desc04.htm#845
Is the Philip Mosley above the same as the Philip Mosely (b. ca. 1858), son of Purnell Mosley (b. ca. 1818) & Rebecca Miller, and who married Elizabeth (b. ca. Sep 1860)? (from Desc. of Purnell Mosley page).
Thanks! John
Subj: Re: QuestionDate: 99-08-24 23:05:05 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
Here's our notes for Philip, father of Harry C. Mosley. It is not proved that this Philip is the son of Purnell and Rebecca.
-------------
Notes:
1. NEED MORE PROOF THAT THE PHILIP WHO M. ELIZABETH IS THE SON OF PURNELL & REBECCA.
2. Subj: Re: Mosley Madness Date: 99-01-21 02:02:38 EST From: LFREIDA 15
Philip Mosley, son of Purnell and Rebecca age 21 in 1880
1900 census East Milford All B DEMosley Philip, b Feb 1860 age 48 m 13 yrs, farmer Elizabeth, wife b Sept 1860 age 39 M or 9 - 8 living children Harry C b Sept 1887, age 12 Maude May b Dec 1889, age 10 Wm T b May 1892, age 8 Clara b May 1894, age 6 Clarence E b Dec 1897, age 2 Anna B b April 1900 age 1/12 1900 Census West Dover Mosley Philip, b Feb 1848, age 51 single, laborer living w/a wht family , didn't write their names down. We had two Philip's over here coming down through Alexander, David and Lucinda had a son Philip m to Beatrice Durham, dau of Minous Durham, they had a son Philip Jr. -----------
Subj: Mary, wife of DuPont MosleyDate: 99-08-24 21:54:44 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine')
Hi, Ray & Betty. In regard to the surname of Mary, wife of DuPont Mosley (b. 1911), on this page:
ll_bc1818/desc05.htm#444
...Your page has that her maiden name was PEARCE, but according to the e-mail message I received from Lorraine Gregg, attached below, her maiden name was Carney. She also mentions that Mary Carney was the daughter of Anna Janet Carney who "later married Charles Pearce." Sounds like Mary took her mother's maiden name, who was unmarried at the time.
Lorraine: Do we know who Mary's father was?
Thanks! John
Subj: Re: Mary, wife of DuPont MosleyDate: 99-08-24 23:13:14 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@, LFREIDA 15
In a message dated 99-08-24 21:54:44 EDT, you write:
Elisha Mosley Parents:
John M. Mosley md. Elizabeth Johnsonb. 1834/1840 - d. b. 1832/1842 -d. Dec. 20 1922 I put both dates because I have seen them under 2 different dates.
Children:
1. Elisha Mosley md. GeorgiannaCorney2. Lucinda Mosley md David W. Mosley,Sr.3. Nancy H. Mosley md. Joseph H. Kimmey4. Return Mosley md. Sophie Mosley5. Cordelia "Deli" Mosley md. Robert James Carneyor James Robert6. Lavinia "Vennie" Mosley md. Kenneth "Kenny" Morgan7. Albert Mosley md. Jane Jackson8. Sally Sarah Mosley md. Mike Carney9. Mary Mosley md. Elisha Mosley
< snip >
Sweetsie
---------------------------------------------------
PASTED MESSAGE #2:
-----Original Message-----From: Rose Marie Ridgeway [SMTP:rbright4@]Sent: Sunday, September 27, 1998 7:20 PMTo: spiff@Subject: RE: Mosley Madness
Hi John,
< snip >
#8. According to the 1900 Census Elisha and Georgianna Carney, Mosleyhad been married for 18 years, which would make their marriage date in1882. I did type the wrong month in for Sadie Mae, it should have beenborn: Nov.1883
< snip >
Sweetsie
--------------------------------------------------------
PASTED MESSAGE #3:
-----Original Message-----From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 12:04 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Moselys / Carneys / Weslager's Notes
Hi John:
< snip >
#5
Joseph and Nancy Mosley Kimmey had daus Rebecca, Mildred possibly more.Rebecca Kimmey was the first w/of Luther "Ludie" Reed. Their dau MildredKimmey did m Leon Corney.
Carney/Corney QuestionStarting from Robert and Phebe Carney, their son Robert m Amanda Mosley,Robert and Amanda Mosley Carney had two sons William Corney m Maybelle Durham,and they only had one son Leon m to Mildred Kimmey. Their other son Walter mElnora Durham.Maybelle and Elnora were both sisters of my gmother Anna Durham Johnson,daughters of Daniel and Carolyn Carney Durham.
< snip >
Lorraine
Subj: RE: Elisha M. Mosley marriage dateDate: 99-08-28 12:38:35 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. I think you missed my point on this one. I wasn't disputing whether Sadie's birthdate was 1884 vs. Nov 1883.... I was pointing out that the web site has her parents' marriage date as 1893 (NINETY-three), when I think you meant to have 1883 (EIGHTY-three) (or 1882). Thanks, John
Subj: RE: Questions: Seeney & Sammons familiesDate: 99-08-28 12:38:46 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: wahoor@ ('wahoo')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Rose. Thanks for the clarifications. Just wanted to make sure of a couple more things:
The Floyd "Perk" Ridgeway, son of Mike and Caroline Ridgeway, is not connected to (in other words, not to be confused with) the Floyd Ridgeway, son of Benjamin Ridgeway, Sr and Dorothy Morgan, right? These are two different Floyds Ridgeways?
Also, how is Anna Bea Johnson Ridgeway Sammons connected to the other Johnsons? (In other words, who were her parents / grandparents)? --(Oh, I see in Betty & Ray's reply, that they also asked you about Anna Bea).
Thanks! John
Subj: RE: Jake SammonsDate: 99-08-28 12:38:50 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')CC: wahoor@ ('wahoor@')
Hi, Betty & Ray.
Regarding this part:
...OK this part is boggling my brain! :-) I'm actually on my way out for a few errands, but need to study Betty's family on the web site when I return. I just had a quick look in my file, and it looks like I have Howard (Clifton) Wilson as Betty's GRANDFATHER, not uncle! (Am I missing something??)
What's up with these people having three spouses anyway? Don't they know it's already hard enough for us Tree Climbers to figure this stuff out??
:-)
John
Subj: Re: Jake SammonsDate: 99-08-28 14:15:07 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 99-08-28 12:38:50 EDT, you write:
Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks, and take care, John
----------From: George Contant[SMTP:33dny@]Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 11:15 PMTo: John C. CarterSubject: Re: U.S. Colored Troops
Dear John,
What a GREAT SURPRISE!!
John, you're talking to him! ^_^ I am writing a history of USCTs fromDelaware and would love to know if you have any photos, letters,diaries,etc., of the men. What is your relationship to them?
I have the locations of both men --and you'll be pleased to know that Ikeep an American flag on Daniel's grave. He's the only CW vet in thecemetery and, for some reason, I really felt attached to him. He's withinwalking distance of my house and I visit it often. I also check onAlfred's grave in Cheswold quite often.
Please send me your mailing addy and I'll send an article about my/our workto you. I wish you were here too!
Yours in F., C., L.,
George ContantGrand Army Historic Publications16 South Governors AvenueDover, Delaware 19904Voice/fax: 302.674.0727
Our own websiteWestern New York in the Civil War and Design One Interiors:
Some of our other sitesFort Delaware Society
Friends of the African Union CemeteryU.S. Colored Troops Project
Delaware in the Civil War
--------------------------------------------------------------
At 10:33 PM 3/19/99 -0500, you wrote:> Hello.> I've just visited the wonderful website pertaining to U.S. Colored>Troops in Delaware.> I am interested in contacting the author of the section listing all the>known graves of USCT veterans buried in Delaware, but could not find his e->mail address on the site. The copyright states "George W. Contant," so I'm>assuming this is the author. Would it be possible to obtain his e-mailaddress?>I can provide the location of at least a couple more soldiers.> At least two of the soldiers already listed are relatives of mine (Alfred >Ridgeway and Daniel Coker).> I am a member of the Winfield Scott Whitehurst camp of the Sons of>Union Veterans of the Civil War, here in Florida.> Your project of restoring the cemetery in Delaware City sounds>wonderful! I wish I lived in the area, to be able to assist!> Sincerely,> John C. Carter
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Jemina HansorDate: 99-09-02 13:46:09 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: hmuncey@ ('hmuncey@'), Mitsawokett@ (Mitsawokett@)
From: "John C. Carter"
>> Hi John,>> I don't know if you are aware of it or not but we have a second>> document that states Robert Munce married Jemina Hansor. The death>> certificate of Mary Elizabeth Munce Sammons gives her parents as Robert>> Munce and Jamima Hanzer. I believe Wylena sent it to me.>> Harry
- - - - -
Hi, Harry. Thanks for the info. Lynn had obtained a copy of the death certificate as well, and shared it with all of us last September. See below. (Pritchett researchers: Note the undertaker's name). (This name appears on several other death certificates in my possession as well, so you may already be aware of it).
----------From: JACKLYN001@[SMTP:JACKLYN001@]Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 1998 1:49 PMTo: spiff@; eheite@; AquaBetty@Cc: 74547.41@; Bordleycsw@; ccc47331@si-; Subject: Jemima Hansor Munce
Greetings,
Per John's suggestion I asked for death certificates on the children of Robert and Jemima Munce who died in DE. to see what maiden name was listed for Jemima.
The only certificate the DE Archives could find was for daughter MARY ELIZABETH MUNCE who married NEHEMIAH SAMMONS. The following info was listed(husband Nehemiah was the informant)
Kenton Hundred, Near CheswoldMary Elizabeth Sammonsfemale/ Moor/ marriedBorn: Sept. 8, 1841occupation: housewifebirthplace: DelawareFather: Robert MUNCEbirthplace of Father: DelawareMother: Jamima HANZORbirthplace of Mother: Delawaredate of death: Nov,. 9, 1914attendance of doctor: Aug. 25 1914 - Nov. 9, 1914last seen by doctor: Aug. 25, 1914cause of death: esostris (?) Catarrhsigned: W. L. VaughnLeipsic, DELBuried: Manship, Near DoverDate of burial: 11/12/1914Undertaker: W. Pritchett, Dover
Lynn
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Becket - SammonsDate: 99-09-02 15:30:52 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, everyone. On April 26th, Joseph wrote:
>> 1860 - Delaware, Kent Co., Dover Hundred, 431-427, [08 Jun 1860]:
>> Greenberry Becket, 48, M, M, Farmer, pe 150, Delaware>> Hester, 28, F, M, Delaware>> Perry, 14, M, M, Delaware>> John H, 10 M, M, Delaware>> George, 7, M, M, Delaware>> Elijah, 3, M, M, Delaware>> Peter, 3, M, M, Delaware
Can anyone confirm if the above Peter Becket, age 3, is the same as the Peter H. Beckett, (1857-1942) who married Mary E. Reed, (1858-1936)? The date of birth seems to agree....
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Becket - SammonsDate: 99-09-02 17:44:40 EDTFrom: dwfrft@ (Donald W. Fisher)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@
From: "Donald W. Fisher"
John, I can't prove it with numerous documents, but I think the answer toyour question is yes.
Peter Becket and his wife Mary Reed are buried at Immanuel Union MethodistCemetery in Cheswold. With them is Greensberry Becket (1845-1865), and I amalso willing to bet that this is Peter's older brother Perry.
If so, this is a clear case of "Perry" being an acceptable nickname forGreensbury. I have men called Perry all over the place, Perkins, Beckets,Sammons/Simons, Handsor, etc. Some are related to the name Peregrine, butmy contention is that others are related to the name Greensbury, "berry"corrupted by pronunciation into Perry.
This is NOT bartender Peter Becket who married Mary Ellen Durham in 1860 andafterward apparently had three or four children by a woman named Lucy Annbefore having Emma I. Becket by Mary Ellen in 1872. This Peter was b. ca.1832. He may be a brother or otherwise related to Greensbury, the father.That's a whole 'nuther DE>PA>MI soap opera.
My question - who is Hester?
Don
> >> 1860 - Delaware, Kent Co., Dover Hundred, 431-427, [08 Jun 1860]:>> >> Greenberry Becket, 48, M, M, Farmer, pe 150, Delaware> >> Hester, 28, F, M, Delaware> >> Perry, 14, M, M, Delaware> >> John H, 10 M, M, Delaware> >> George, 7, M, M, Delaware> >> Elijah, 3, M, M, Delaware> >> Peter, 3, M, M, Delaware>>> Can anyone confirm if the above Peter Becket, age 3, is the same as the> Peter H. Beckett, (1857-1942) who married Mary E. Reed, (1858-1936)? The> date of birth seems to agree....
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Sammons and Sammons and Sammons, oh my!Date: 99-09-02 15:33:32 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all.
On August 26th, Joseph wrote:
>> The deed can however be used to establish Deborah Becket as a daughter of>> Benjamin Salmons.
Then, on August 27th, Don wrote:
>> 1840 DE New Castle Co Appoquinomink 100 p. 324>> Benjamin Sammons (free colored). 1 male 36-55, three males 10-23; 1 female>> 36-55, three females 10-23, one female under 10.>> Since Benjamin2 was only fifteen years old in 1840, I assume that this is>> Benjamin1 next door to Greensbury.
Then, on August 28th, Don wrote:
>> 1850 DE Kent Co. (?? 100) p. 31. All of the following are listed, but it looks>> as if there should be two separate families. Does anyone know who is in which family?>> Benjamin Sammons, 55 (Benjamin1)>> Sarah Sammons, 57 (Miller - his wife)>> [We know that son Benjamin2 and dau Prudence Sammons Concealer are on p. 179.]>> Isaac Sammons, 50, presumably brother of Benjamin1>> Has his wife Prudence (Hargrove) died by this date?>> The others:>> James, 20 (if son of Benjamin1, this would give yet a different birth year 1829-1830;>> we already have references to 1827 and 1832)>> Benjamin, 12 (not Benjamin2 - see Benjamin Samons on p. 179 ) [Etc.]
Then, on August 28th, Preston wrote:
>> You're mixing up the children of Isaac and Benjamin.
Etc.
OK, I tried to start figuring out all this Sammons information, but my brain promptly short-circuited, and then turned to jello. Has anyone sorted all this out? :-) I only have one Benjamin Sammons of this era in my file. He was born Feb 1837 and married Lydia Ann Munce. (son of Isaac Sammons, Sr., b. ca. 1800). I've been trying to figure out if this is "Benjamin 1" or "Benjamin 2," but it's obviously neither. How many Benjamin Sammons' are there??? How do they all connect? Do we have a common ancestor for all these Sammons'? Also-- My notes (shared to me a year and a half ago by Preston Sammons) show Isaac Sammons Sr. m1) Pamela Coursey on 18 Dec 1819, then m2) Esther Handsey in 1830 and had 6 children, and then m3) Prudence Argo ca. 1850 and had 11 (!) more children. Is this correct?
Sorry if the answers to these questions are imbedded in all the recent info somewhere, but I'm having a bad case of "can't see the forest for the trees." (or vice versa).
Thanks! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] George DurhamDate: 99-09-02 16:24:08 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
On August 7th, Ray & Betty Terry wrote:
>
Then, on August 9th, Joseph wrote:
>> I have drawn this conclusion from the evidence. In the 1850 census, at the >> end of the list of Henry's children by an unknown first wife, appears Isaac >> Durham, age 13. One would first think that this is a son of Henry's who >> appears in the listing out of order by age, but I suspect that it is George's >> infant son Isaac, and so Henry would be an older half-brother. I know that >> there are guardianship records for Isaac after George's death, but I do not >> have the details. Given the ages of the George's older sons, Henry, b. 1815, >> Elijah, b. 1818/21, William, b. 1819, and Benjamin, b. 1824/5, with William >> and Benjamin being sons of Susan, and that George's wife at the time of his >> death is Ann, not Susan (I'm working from memory on this one), I believe that >>Isaac, b. 1837, is probably the son of George and Ann.>> --Joseph.
Question: Do we know exactly when George died, other than between 1837 and 1850? (I looked on your web site, and could not find a George Durham in the index who matched).
Thanks! John
Subj: RE: Benjamin Ridgeway, Sr.Date: 99-09-02 21:37:49 EDTFrom: spiff@atlanticnet (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. In regard to your question:
>> Is Benjamin Ridgeway, Sr and Dorothy Morgan the same couple we have in PAF?
Yes, it would appear so. However, it would be nice to find more-documentable proof, as you have also mentioned of late. John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Saturday, August 28, 1999 2:06 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Questions: Seeney & Sammons families
In a message dated 99-08-28 12:38:46 EDT, you write:
>
Is Benjamin Ridgeway, Sr and Dorothy Morgan the same couple we have in PAF as follows:
Benjamin Franklin Ridgeway b 16 Feb 1907 d 9 Oct 1976 buried Manship, married Dorothy --- b 1910 d 1987 buried Manship, had child Benjamin Franklin Ridgeway, Jr.b 10 Aug 1932 d 9 Oct 1983 buried Manship. BFR Jr. married Arbana Birdella Ridgway, dau of Edward Davis and Margaret Ridgway, the subjects of a previous message.
B&R
Subj: RE: Johnsons / ReedsDate: 99-09-02 21:37:57 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: wahoor@ ('wahoo')CC: AquaBetty@ (Ray & Betty Terry), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine')
Hi, Rose. Thanks for the clarification. I have made the correction. Regarding this:
>> Anna Bea Johnson, daughter of Frank Johnson and Mary Reed. Mary was the daug. of Mrs. Effie Reed.
Is this the same Frank Johnson who was a son of Thomas Johnson Sr. and Mahala Ridgeway? I had him as married to a "Mary Liz _____," so this would fit if she were Mary Liz Reed.
BUT: I also have an Effilinda "Effie" Reed, but she was married to James Robert Carney, so shouldn't her child be named Mary CARNEY, not Mary REED? (I do show Effie and James R. as having a daughter Mary who married a _____ Johnson, so it sounds like they are the same ones).
I'm cc'ing Lorraine as well, since this is her family also.
Thanks! JohnSubj: Re: Frank Johnson & wife MaryDate: 99-09-02 23:28:13 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@, wahoor@, LFREIDA 15
As a follow-up to John's message, we have the following in PAF:
1. Franklin James Johnson b 1900 d 1962 m Mary C. Carney b 1902 d 1975.He the son of Return Johnson and Esther Hughes, she the dau of Robert James and Effilinda (Reed) Carney. We have listed just one child, James Franklin Johnson.
2. Frank Johnson (no dates, no parents) m Mary Reed (no dates) dau of Effie Reed.One child listed, Anna Bea Johnson.
3. Frank Johnson m Mary, daughter Eva Johnson's death record: Dover Area Death Records by Gregg & Ridgeway--a list of death records gathered from various sources who wish to remain anonymous. Eva Johnson April 23, l926 Parents: Frank and Mary Johnson
4. Frank Johnson son of Hain and Sarah (Jackson) Johnson. Dover Area Death Records by Gregg & Ridgeway--a list of death records gathered from various sources who wish to remain anonymous. Frank Johnson May 28, 1945 age 67 Parents: Hain & Sarah Jackson Johnson
5. Frank Johnson m Mary Liz (no dates). He is the son of Thomas E. Johnson & Mahala Ridgeway.
How are they related, if at all?
B&R
Subj: RE: Carter / Carty Indian reference(s)Date: 99-09-02 22:38:23 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: JACKLYN001@ ('JACKLYN001@'), AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')CC: eheite@ ('eheite@')
Hi, all.(I was almost going to post this to the Mitsawokett site, since the information/discussion may be useful or of interest to others as well, but if Senamoon is a subscriber, I'm not sure how she would accept the questioning of her data). (Especially from me, since she and I had a rather "heated" exchange last year). Anyway--
Regarding Lynn's comments/question:
>> I found the following reference on pg. 165 in Weslagers>> book (compiled c. 1940) and there is a photo of a "George Carter- Moor>> herbalist" opposite page 138.>> " The last practising herbalist in Cheswold died about ten years ago (c.>> 1930??). His son, George Carter, now in his eightieth year (born say,>> 1860???) on occasion still prescribed for his family and neighbors and>> resorts to some of the herbs which his father used so successfully in the>> past".>> This George (b.c. 1860) is way to young to be the son of William and>> Elizabeth CARTY and, since his herbalist father's name is not given, we can't>> tell who is was from this. My CARTY notes are a bit confused but did>> William's son, George married to Lina Mosley(?) , have a son named George????
Yes, according to my file, there were FOUR George's in succession, as follows:
William Carty (ca. 1792 - 07 May 1867), had a son: George Thomas Carty / Carter (08 Mar 1827 - ????). He married Lena/Lina _____ (I never knew it was Mosley??), and had a son: George Washington Carter (26 Jan 1871 - 02 Mar 1954). He married Sarah "Sally" Bell Carney, and had a son: George Elwood "Dick" Carter (12 Jun 1900 - 17 Feb 1971). He married Rheba Dean Mosley, and had a son: George Calvin Carter (???? - ????). He married Betty Ann Grigsby, (and had 3 children--none named George!)
HOWEVER, I see some discrepancies when compared to Betty & Ray's "Descendants of James McCarty" report. They have George Thomas Carty's son as George WILLIAM Carter with a birthdate of 15 Dec 1873). (???) Ray & Betty: What is the source of your info? My source is the death certificate of George Washington Carter, birthdate 26 Jan 1871, death date 02 Mar 1954, spouse Sarah Carter, father George Carter, mother unknown, informant Edith Carter [his daughter].
Ray & Betty also have Sarah Virginia Carter (who married Earl Jeremiah Ridgeway, Sr.) as a daughter of George Thomas Carty, and have Sarah's birthdate estimated as 1876. But this doesn't fit with Senamoon's claim--she said Sarah's GRANDfather was George Carter, but if she was a daughter of George Thomas Carty, then her grandfather would have been WILLIAM Carty. Ray & Betty: What is the source of Sarah's estimated birthdate? The reason I ask is: Earl Jeremiah's birth year was given as 1885 by Rose. Although certainly not impossible for a woman in that era to be married to a man 9 years her junior, it seems a bit unusual. We usually find it the other way around, with the man older. However, if the 1876 birthdate for Sarah is suspect, and if her birthdate was more in the vicinity of say, 1890, then perhaps she could be a daughter of George Washington Carter instead of George Thomas Carty. Then, Senamoon's claim of Sarah being the granddaughter of a George Carter would be correct.
Side note:
Betty & Ray: At this site: _b1770/not03.htm#36 ...on note #3 you mention that George Thomas Carty's middle name was claimed to be "Taft" by Isaiah "Zed" Durham, but that more research was needed to determine if really "Thomas." Just wanted to give you a note/reminder that the Carty / Wyatt Bible has his middle name as "Thomas."
Another side note:
Betty & Ray: Another linking glitch. If you go to this site (William Carty): _b1770/desc02.htm#490 ...and scroll down to his son George Thomas Carty, and then click on George's name, it takes you via a link to REBECCA Carty instead of to GEORGE. Just a little FYI....
OK, that's all for this one. Let me know your thoughts, all. Thanks, John
Subj: RE: Annie Elizabeth CartySubj: RE: Annie Elizabeth CartyDate: 99-09-02 23:20:32 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
(Secondly, I just forwarded Lorraine a copy of our exchange in the e-mail chain entitled "Carter / Carty Indian reference(s)," so she can cross-reference what we're discussing below).
As for your message below:
OK, now I'm confused. :-)
You mentioned that Ray & Betty's site has Annie Elizabeth Carty as a daughter of George Thomas Carty and Lina Mosley. I did not have this in my records. Like you, I had (an) Annie Elizabeth Carty as a daughter of William Washington Carty (George Thomas Carty's brother), and furthermore, I show her as married to George E. Mosley, not Nehemiah Durham. Were there TWO Annie Elizabeth Cartys?
My source was an e-mail chain between Lorraine Johnson Gregg and myself. I have pasted the 3 messages involved in this chain at bottom, beneath your (Lynn's) message. Start from the very bottom message, and read "upward" for continuity.
Comments? Your assistance is appreciated, as we try to untangle all this! John
-----Original Message-----From: JACKLYN001@ [SMTP:JACKLYN001@]Sent: Sunday, August 29, 1999 10:02 AMTo: spiff@Subject: RE; Senamoon
Greetings,
You mention [that Senamoon said] "Sarah Virginia Carter" [w]as the granddaughter of George Carty.
Annie Elizabeth Carty (1866-1915) married Nehemiah Durham (son of William and Mahala Songo Durham). They had a daughter Sarah Virginia Durham.
Annie was the daughter of George Carty and Lina Mosley per Betty & Ray's site (I had shown her as the daughter of William Washington...not sure why??)
Could his be the connection? There would still have been a younger George Carter (b.c. 1860 according to Weslager), possibly Annie's brother ????? What do we know about this family???
Doesn't alter my comments about "Indian chiefs speaking only the Algonquin language" but does make a connection to William and Elizabeth. Lynn
-----Original Message-----From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 11:44 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Carney Chaos!
Hi John
#8 questionThis is a brother of your Elizabeth Carty from Caroline County, MD. Wm Washington Carty was son of Wm Carty and Elizabeth-----------
Wm Washington Carty m to Sarah Morgan, dau of Wm Morgan and Maryanne Sanders
A lot of them lived in this area. Their children were:
1 Annie (Elizabeth) Carty b in MD about 1867 m George Mosley they were parents of: Lola Mosley m Elwood Brown, Elmira Mosley m Roscoe Miller, Herbert Mosley ( father of Catherine Mosley Mosley by Anna Carney Gould.) I don't know if Herbert ever got m again.
2 John N Carty b Oct 1864/1865 in MD m Elizabeth Clark, parents of: Sarah Carter m to Thomas Hall, Mabel Carter m Ashton Pierce, m2 to Wm Wright, Mary Carter NM, she raised James (ED) Cartys dau Pearl Carter. Hattie, Irving, Elnora Carter no information on these three children.
3 Wm Eugene (Gene) Carty b Dec 1862/1863 in MD m 1 Maude M Ridgeway, they were parents of: Howard E A Carty , Bertha M, John W. Gene m 2 Isabelle Snowden and had Atwood Carter. I will have to look up but I think there were more children.
4 Elmira Carty b in De m Robert B Johnson ( my grandfathers bro) they were parents of ; Rose, Madeline (Mable) and Wm Johnson. Elmira dy I do have her d date.
5 James (ED) Carty b in DE Oct 1872 m 1 Laura Dean , 2 m Emma Jane Cuff he wasthe Father of Pearl, Ida, Etta Carter. Not sure which wife was the mother of these three.
6 Murrin ( Not sure what the proper name was) b Aug 1874, NM
7 Jeanette Carty b in De, app 1872 m Elijah Benson, no known children.
Mable Carter Pierce Wright lived here and gave us a lot of the information, Rose was given a copy of written information from Gene Carter's Book (the ones that they use at Funerals for the visitors and family to sign) Other info came from 1870, 1880, 1900 Census records. Other information from Atwoods Carter's Grandaughter Bernetta CLark Brown also living in this area.
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 1:35 PMTo: 'Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)'Cc: 'Sammons, Preston L. (psam@)'Subject: RE: Carney Chaos!
8. Regarding Catherine Mosely Mosely (wife of Roosevelt Mosely) being the daughter of Herbert Mosely, who was in turn the son of George E. Mosely and Elizabeth Carter.... Who are these people? I don't have either this George E. Mosely nor Elizabeth Carter in my FTM. Do you know each of their parents? This Elizabeth Carter has me curious!
That's all for now! John
-----Original Message-----From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Friday, October 02, 1998 10:21 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Carney Chaos!
We have always been told that Catherine Mosley Mosley, oldest dau of Anna Carney and Herbert Mosley, son of George E Mosley and Elizabeth Carter. Catherine is a widow and still living here in NJ w/ her youngest dau. Lorraine
Subj: RE: Senamoon's identityDate: 99-09-03 19:11:13 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Thanks for the explanation of who "Senamoon" is. I just checked my FTM, and discovered that I already had her input, but didn't know she was "Senamoon." If you need the first name of her 2nd husband, it is Larry (Sullivan). Thanks again, John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Sunday, August 29, 1999 10:57 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Carter / Carty Indian reference(s)
In a message dated 99-08-28 20:21:59 EDT, you write:
Just the data you sent.
None further.
Harriet N. Durham b 1851/1852 d 1920, dau of Joel Durham & Margaret Munce.
Death certificate: Carney, Harrietfemale / C / marriedborn: May 20, 1852 in Delawareage: 68 yearsoccupation: Houseworkresidence: West Doverfather: Joel Durham of DEmother: Maranet Muntze of DEdied: Dec. 22, 1920 in DE (8 a.m.)cause of death: chronic valvular heart diseaseburied: Fork Branchundertaker: Calvin Clark
Fork Branch cemetery inscription: Harriet Carney 1851 - 22 Dec 1920
>Maggie Carney Pritchett. Do you know how your James Perry Carney is related to Maggie. Also, do you know a Sarah >>Durham of 1940's. My grandmother, Annie Mosley Cooper had an Aunt Sarah Durham listed on her obituary in 1946.Then, also on September 1st, Joseph wrote:
>> I have not undertaken a study of the Carney families to know how James P might relate to Maggie. Perhaps John Carter can comment on this.Now, here are my (John) comments:
(TheoLouise, James Perry Carney was in my family line, not Joseph's. You probably got mixed up because he and I were discussing the line back and forth). -- If Maggie Carney Pritchett is the same as the Margaret Carney who married Charles Pritchett on 02 Dec 1889, then according to my file your Maggie was a daughter of Thomas Carney and Susan Munce/Sammons. Thomas was a son of James (Martin?) Carney (b. ca. 1824) and Sally Songo (b. ca. 1827). James (Martin?) Carney was a brother of the Robert Carney (b. 13 Aug 1815) who was James Perry Carney's father, so that would make Thomas Carney and James Perry Carney first cousins. So, Maggie and James Perry would be first cousins, once removed. Also, I've listed Thomas' wife's name as Susan "Munce/Sammons" because she was a daughter of Benjamin Sammons (b. Feb 1837) and Lydia Ann Munce (b. Sep 1832), and--I'm a little unclear on this--but there is some discrepancy as to the actual marriage and/or marriage date between Benjamin and Lydia Ann. Consequently, their children can be found with either Munce or Sammons (or both) as a last name. Next generation back: = Lydia Ann Munce was the daughter of Robert Munce, Jr. (b. ca. 1810) and Jemina A. Handsor* (b. ca. 1813). *(Although most indications point toward Jemina's maiden name as Handsor, there have been some indications of the name "Okea" or "Okey" involved somehow). = Benjamin Sammons was the son of Isaac Sammons, Sr. (b. ca. 1800) and (Esther Handsey??)
[By the way, thanks very much to Preston, Lorraine, and Rose, for a lot of this information, some of which I acquired a year or two ago]. -- I can't comment on the "Aunt Sarah Durham," because I am unclear on some of your other connections. Which brings me to a few questions" 1. Do you (or Preston, Betty&Ray, Rose, Lorraine, etc) know who the parents of your Levi H. Mosley were? I have four Levi Mosleys in my file, but none of them appear to be yours. 2. Question for Preston: ou mentioned that your Grand Uncle William Franklin Sammons was married to Sarah E. Mosely, a daughter of this Levi and his wife Sarah Elizabeth Pritchett. However, according to the file I received from you, William Franklin Sammons was married to 1) Hannah _____, 2) Sarah HARMON, and 3) Mabel Ridgeway. Was Harmon a previously-married name for Sarah, or is there some other discrepancy here?
OK, that's all for now. I appreciate any comments, and thanks for your help! John
Subj: RE: Who are John & Reb Seeney?Date: 99-09-04 13:46:49 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: seen1@worldnet. ('Charles E. Seeney'), AquaBetty@ (AquaBetty@)
Hi, Chuck. Thanks for the info. We are trying to find a family that have among their children ones named Jim, John, Reb, and Adline/Adeline, all in the same family. Do you have any Seeney/Seaney familys that could fit this? Thanks! John
Subj: RE: Joseph Mosley & Alberta CarneyDate: 99-09-03 19:11:27 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: JACKLYN001@ ('JACKLYN001@')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Lynn. Thanks for this info. Turns out I had some of it already. (Took me a moment to figure out who "Albert" was, since you typed it as "Albert" in both of your messages. Figured out you meant "Alberta").
However, I have found a discrepancy: I didn't know your Uncle Glendon was a son of JOSEPH H. Mosley.... I had him as a son of JAMES Mosley (brother of Joseph, Andrew, etc). Please verify. Was there a son James at all? Or is this an input error? These are the children I had for Joseph C. Mosley and Margaret Carney: Joseph H(amilton) (m. Alberta Carney) Andrew (m. Angea Bell Coker) James (m. unknown) Sophie (m. Return Mosley)
I'm not sure where I got that Glendon was a son of James....could it have been when I visited them a couple of years ago?? Though I doubt he would tell me the wrong name for his own father (!), so I must have goofed somewhere....
By the way, did I give you a copy of the photograph I duplicated of Margaret Carney Mosley? I made a copy when I visited Laura Mosely Clark (daughter of Andrew and Angea Bell) several years ago. It was a large old framed photo, similar to the one you have of Mary Ann Dean. If you'd like, I can scan a copy and e-mail to you (or send you a photographic copy as well). The bottom of the photograph has her name spelled as "Marguerite." (I think Laura has passed away; I wonder who got the original photo??)
Also, when I visited your Uncle Glendon and Aunt Mary Elva (fall, 1996??), I made copies of their photographs of:
1. Alberta Carney (as you mentioned, daughter of Shadrach), holding "grandson Wayne" as a baby.
2. Mary Elva Carter _______, daughter of Isaiah Carter and Mary Elva ______ Carter. (I have in my notes that she raised your Aunt Mary Elva [aka "Lu"], but I'm not sure how she connects to the Carters. I do have an isolated Isaiah Carter in my file, father of a "Mae" who married Mike C. Ridgeway, but am not sure if this is the same Isaiah Carter, and how he may connect to the rest of the Carters. Do you?)
3. Shade (Shadrach) Carney (29 May 1870-06 Jun 1933), son of Shary (Shade/Shadrach Sr) & Mary Jane Carty. (By the way, do any of you know how this Mary Jane Carty connects to the other Cartys?? Never been able to resolve this....)
On the same trip, I also acquired copies of these photos, but I can't remember for sure if I made the copies at Glendon's & Mary Elva's, or at Pinky's (Arlena Coker). I'm pretty sure these came from Pinky's:
4. Sara ______, wife of Harry Carney (20 Sep 1876 - ????), son of James Perry Carney and Harriett Durham. (Does anyone know her maiden name?)
5. Isaiah "Zed" Carney, (14 Dec 1889-????), also son of James Perry Carney and Harriett Durham.
6. Adline Mosley, who I was told was a sister of "Jim, John & Reb Seeney," and also the aunt of Harvey Durham. I do have an Adeline Seeney in my file as a daughter of Frederick Seeney and Hester Dean, and I show them as having a son James (Jim), but I don't show any John or Reb among their 12 children, unless these are nicknames / middle names. Can anyone confirm?
OK, that's all for this one. Thanks in advance, everyone, for any help you can provide! Let me know if you would like copies of any of these. John
Subj: RE: Sara vs. HarriettDate: 99-09-04 12:17:50 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Thanks for the reply.
Regarding this part:
>> name?)>>>> Harriet N. Durham b 1851/1852 d 1920, dau of Joel Durham & Margaret Munce.>> Death certificate: Carney, Harriet>> female / C / married>> born: May 20, 1852 in Delaware>> age: 68 years>> occupation: Housework>> residence: West Dover>> father: Joel Durham of DE>> mother: Maranet Muntze of DE>> died: Dec. 22, 1920 in DE (8 a.m.)>> cause of death: chronic valvular heart disease>> buried: Fork Branch>> undertaker: Calvin Clark>> Fork Branch cemetery inscription: Harriet Carney 1851 - 22 Dec 1920
...Thanks, but I was asking for the maiden name of Sara _____, not Harriett. (Harreitt's maiden name, in fact, was already typed in my question). Harriett was my great-great-grandmother, so I already had all the info on her. (By the way, the birthdate listed on her death certificate--20 May 1862--does not agree with the birthdate provided to me by Cheswold-area descendants: 10 Aug 1851, of which the 1851 agrees with the Fork Branch marker. A mystery to solve).
Here is the question again:
4. Sara ______, wife of Harry Carney (20 Sep 1876 - ????), son of James Perry Carney and Harriett Durham. (Does anyone know her maiden name?)
Thanks!! :-) John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 12:05 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Joseph Mosley & Alberta Carney
In a message dated 99-09-03 19:11:27 EDT, you write:
>
Just the data you sent.
None further.
Harriet N. Durham b 1851/1852 d 1920, dau of Joel Durham & Margaret Munce.
Death certificate: Carney, Harrietfemale / C / marriedborn: May 20, 1852 in Delawareage: 68 yearsoccupation: Houseworkresidence: West Doverfather: Joel Durham of DEmother: Maranet Muntze of DEdied: Dec. 22, 1920 in DE (8 a.m.)cause of death: chronic valvular heart diseaseburied: Fork Branchundertaker: Calvin Clark
Fork Branch cemetery inscription: Harriet Carney 1851 - 22 Dec 1920
> My 7th great-grandmother was Hannah Carter>> of MA. She married James Converse and had my 6th great-grandmother,>> Hannah Converse Richardson. Hannah Carter Converse's father was John>> Carter [!] and her mother Elizabeth Kindall. The family was in Woburn and>> Hannah's dates are 1651-1691. Wouldn't it be a coincidence if this Carter>> family in Michigan from MA came from the same lines! John, if you come>> from these lines, we could be 7th or 8th cousins!
You may be aware of this already (either from my reply to Floyd the other day, or from the "Descendants of James McCarty" report on the Mitsawokett site), but my (and others' on this list) Carters were not really Carters, since the name was changed from CARTY, and Carty derived from McCARTY prior to that. Just a little FYI for those on the list who may not be aware.... Thanks, John
Subj: FW: Family HistoryDate: 99-09-05 21:37:28 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn')
File: ATT00001.html (24555 bytes)DL Time (28800 bps): < 1 minute
Hi, Lynn & Ray & Betty. Here's a reply I just received from Linda Harmon. I've just given it a precursory reading, but it looks like a lot of it is just repeats of the stuff that was in the original document she sent Lynn. She does seem to answer some questions, though. Eyes are too tired to concentrate on this now. Gonna go watch "Star Trek: Insurrection" !! John
Subj: FW: Joseph Mosley & Alberta CarneyDate: 99-09-07 20:26:28 EDTFrom: spiff@atlanticnet (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
For your info. (Reply from Lorraine). John
-----Original Message-----From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 7:54 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Joseph Mosley & Alberta Carney
John,
This one is easy, Sarah Mosley m Harvey Harmon first they had a daughterPhlina Harmon who in turn m Minous Carney, then Sarah m Harry Carney son ofJames Perry and Harriet Durham Carney. Eleanor (Peatie) Olin is thegranddaughter of Sarah Mosley and Harvey Harmon. Info from Peatie and herfather Minous Carney.
Lorraine
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 8:57 PMTo: 'AquaBetty@'Cc: 'Gregg, Lorraine'Subject: RE: Joseph Mosley & Alberta Carney
Hi, Ray & Betty, Thanks! Do we know that this is the same Harry Carney (i.e. the son of James Perry Carney and Harriett Durham)? I do only have the one Harry Carney in my file, but I also have a Harrison Carney (son of Thomas Carney and Susan Munce/Sammons) who might be around the same age as well (since his mother was born in 1857). Also, Lorraine's note says that Sarah married Harvey Harmon first, then Harry Carney. If true, then they must have divorced, since Sarah died in 1938 but Harvey Harmon lived until 1956. Lorraine: Can you confirm? Thanks again! John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 8:22 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Joseph Mosley & Alberta Carney
In a message dated 99-09-03 19:11:27 EDT, you write:
>
Our apologies. How's this? --
Date: 99-01-21From: LFREIDA 15 (Lorraine Johnson-Gregg)
David m Lucinda Mosley, dau of John and Elizabeth Johnson Mosley, sister ofJohn E. Johnson. Their children were David J.r m Mary Ridgway, Essie mClaude Pritchett, Sarah m Harvey Harmon first, then Harry Carney, Taft mSarah Banks first, then Bessie Daniels from Tenn. Philip m Beatrice Durham,Dupont m Mary Carney, Maybelle m Harry Durham, then Walton Seeney, thenRaymond Durham. The Durhams: sons of Minous Durham, son of Daniel andCarolyn Carney Durham. Rosevelt m Catherine Mosley. dau of Anna Carney andHerbert Mosley. There may have been more children. Again most of thisfamily moved to this area.
----
Sarah Jane Mosley b c Apr 1893 d 28 Nov 1938 Monroeville, Salem, New Jersey,info in a GEDCOM from Lorraine.
B&R
Subj: RE: Virginia Reed or Carney?Date: 99-09-07 20:09:49 EDTFrom: spiff@atlanticnet (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. I just sent off a message to a cousin to check on this. I've had her listed as Virginia Reed for many, many years, back on my old hand-drawn charts! I'll let you know what I find out. I did a search in my file for a James L. Carney, but couldn't find one. Do you know where he connects from? Who his parents were? Curiously, though, when I did a search for an Esther Johnson, I found one (daughter of Return Johnson and Sarah Virginia Carter), and guess who she was married to? A ______ Reed! (From the "Ridgeway" message you sent me on Aug 27th). However, this could just be coincidence. I also did a search under Mary E. Johnson, and found one (b. Apr 1868)--married to a James H. Carney (b. 26 Dec 1861). Not sure whether this has anything to do with it or not.... Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 10:32 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Virginia Reed or Carney?
Hi John,
Preston's attachment (Sarah.gif) says that James L. Carney and Mary EsterJohnson had a daughter, Virginia R. Carney, who married Roland C. Carney.Your GEDCOM to us stated that Virginia's surname was Reed. Her obit says shewas James Carney's daughter. Was she married priorly to Reed? Is Carneycorrect?
Our notes:
1. GEDCOM file from John Carter 3/98 (spiff@): Says name prior to marriage with Roland Carney was Virginia Reed.
BUT see Note 2 --
2. Obituary excerpts, seen at James Mosley's 9 May 1998: Virginia Carney born 2 Oct 1920, Cheswold, died 29 Jul 1997, Dover. Buried at Manship. Daughter of James L. Carney and Mary Esther Johnson. Married 56 years to Roland C. Carney. 2 daughters: Joyce Luzader, Dover, Del Peggy Carney, Dover, Del 1 sister: Lillian Turner, Dover, Del 3 grandchildren, 5 greatgrandchildren.
3. SSDI: SSN 221-10-4582, 2 Oct 1920-29 Jul 1997
B&R
Subj: RE: Virginia Reed or Virginia Carney?Date: 99-09-07 22:48:32 EDTFrom: spiff@atlanticnet (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Got a quick response on this one. Well, I'm not sure what to say now. My cousin (in Cheswold) tells me the following:
>> Virginia Lee (Reed) Carney, is Roland Carneys wife .>> Her parents were Leslie Reed, and Ester (Johnson) Reed .>> They are both buried at Emmanuel .>> They were seperated for years. My Grandmother Margaret>> and Uncle Les dated for a peroid of time, when I was a child.>> Ester was a house keeper for Chief Charles Clark.>> Virginia's sister was married to Roland's brother Lincoln>> Carney. Her name was Edna.>> Roland has two daughters, Joyce Luzader & Peggy Lee Carney.>> Peggy lives two doors from me. She bought her mothers>> brothers house when he passed. His name was Walter Reed ,>> we all called him UNcle Peter Rabbit. He was married to>> my Moms niece.(Here goes the tree twisters again).
This all sounds correct to me, so I'm not sure what to say about Preston's file. Let me know if you have any more questions. Thanks! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] My websiteDate: 99-09-08 20:56:42 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all. Seeing Don's announcement of his web page to the group reminded me that I hadn't posted anything about mine yet, either, although I'd begun composing the message below several days ago.
Special thanks to Betty & Ray Terry, and to Lynn Jackson, for offering some early suggestions and comments. And thanks VERY much to everyone who has been so generous as to share their information with me over the years. I always try my best to share with everyone (sort of a good version of "what goes around, comes around"), and if there's anything I can share with any of you, please let me know.
Yes, the lack of an index for FTM web pages is very distressing. As soon as I have extra time, I hope to utilize Ray & Betty's suggestion of trying PAF, which provides an indes.
Although the reports I've posted are not as complete as I'd prefer, and certainly not as thorough as Betty & Ray's, Lynn's, and Joseph's, I thought I might go ahead and post them, if only to get possible feedback on errors or omissions.
The site is throught FTM (Family Tree Maker) and is located at:
Near the bottom of that page, you will see a links for the following reports:
"Descendants of Marmaduke Hardcastle." "Descendants of Father of Robert, James (Martin?), and William Carney." ** "Descendants of Shary (Sherry / Shade / Shadrach Sr.) Carney."
** (This 2nd report is named as such, to be able to provide the link of the three being brothers, although the names of the parents is unknown at this time).
I hope to add reports for the McCarty (Carty / Carter), Cott, and Coker lines soon.
In the meantime, I welcome any comments, additions, suggestions or corrections. Thanks, everyone! John
Subj: RE: Shifting in the Shadows...Date: 99-09-09 22:46:39 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')CC: eheite@ ('Heite, Ned')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Have been thinking about this one the last couple of days:
>> 6 people have chosen not to be listed.>> 6 subscriber(s) not displayed as requested.
I find it very bizarre that some people have chosen to be "hidden from view" of those whose conversations they're "eavesdropping" upon. Whereas I understand that people have a right to privacy, to me this list is a sort of pseudo public place, and I find it disturbing that they would infringe upon OUR rights of knowing who's "listening" to us. An analogy would be for 6 strangers to conceal themselves in a room where a family meeting was taking place, listening to all the conversations, but not allowing anyone to know they're there. Somewhat strange, if you ask me, if not downright rude. Just my opinion, for its 2 cents worth. Thanks, John
Subj: RE: Jeremiah Ridgeway (b. ca. 1865)Date: 99-09-09 18:23:15 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: wahoor@ ('wahoo')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine')
Hi, Rose. Sorry, but now I'm getting confused. The information in your message below seems to be conflicting with information you sent me last year.
First, this part:
>> Jeremiah Ridgeway and Harriet Hughes are the parents of Jeremiah>> Earl Ridgeway who married Bessie Mosley
Last year, in a messages dated 9/27/98 and 10/01/98, you told me that Jeremiah and Harriett were the parents of the Earl Jeremiah Ridgeway who married Sarah Virginia Carter, and that THIS Earl Jeremiah and Sarah were in turn the parents of the Earl Jeremiah ("Squirrel") who married Bessie Mosley. (Then, Earl "Squirrel" and Bessie were the parents of Earl "Lovey"). Are you skipping a generation in your message above?
About this part:
>> Jeremiah & Bessie were the parents of Jeremiah Earl Ridgeway>> "Lovey" who married Annetta Ridgeway, daug of Benjamin>> Ridgeway, Sr. and Dorothy Morgan, also Lola Ridgeway who>> married Forrest Seeney
Again, in messages from you last year, I have that the Lola who married Forrest Seeney was a daughter of the Earl Jeremiah who married Sarah Virginia Carter, not the Earl Jeremiah who married Bessie. I have the Lola who was daughter of Earl ("Squirrel") Jeremiah and Bessie as married to Herbert Gibbs. (These people with the same first names in different generations really make genealogy confusing!)
Yes, I'd be very interested to know if the eldest Jeremiah Ridgeway (husband of Harriett Hughes) was a half-brother of Frank Johnson. (Is this the Frank Johnson who was a son of Thomas Johnson Sr. and Mahala Ridgeway? Lorraine had given me last Dec. that their son Frank had married a Mary Liz, but she didn't have her maiden name. Priscilla Johnson Robinson would have been a sister to this Frank). I'm interested in finding out anything on the early Ridgeways, and how to connect all the "loose" lines together. (Especially Tilghman).
Sorry about the confusion, and thank again for your help! John
Subj: P.S. RE: Jeremiah Ridgeway (b. ca. 1865)Date: 99-09-09 18:23:42 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: wahoor@ ('wahoo')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine')
Yes, that's what I meant in my original message, as a hint of there possibly being a connection (brothers?) between John Henry Ridgeway, Sr. and Jeremiah Ridgeway, Sr. John Henry might have named his son after his brother. John
-----Original Message-----From: wahoo [SMTP:wahoor@]Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 2:17 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Jeremiah Ridgeway (b. ca. 1865)
Hi again,
I forget to tell you, John Henry Ridgeway and Minnie Durham had a sonJeremiah also.
Sweetsie
Subj: RE: Joseph Mosley / Isaiah CarterDate: 99-09-09 19:42:18 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: JACKLYN001@ ('JACKLYN001@')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Lynn. OK, I corrected my mistake, and placed Glendon as a child of Joseph Hamilton Mosley and Alberta Carney. I went ahead and removed James (erroneous father of Glendon) from that line, because I think he was an input error. (I kept James "Goldie," Glendon's brother). As for Sophie, in a message from Rose Marie Ridgeway on 9/22/98 she told me that Return Mosley (son of John Mosely and Elizabeth Johnson) married Sophie Mosley. Then, in a message on 10/04/98, she told me that Sophie was the daughter of "Joseph C. Mosley and Margaret A. Cornie." I got her birthyear of 1883 from the Mitsawokett web site, under Betty & Ray's report "Descendants of John & Sally Mosley." As for Mary Elva Carter Morgan, daughter of Isaiah Carter, do you think she is a sister of the Mae Carter who married Mike C. Ridgeway? Mae was supposed to be a daughter of an Isaiah Carter as well, and I've been trying to figure out if they're the same Isaiah. Then we need to find clues as to who he's descended from. There is a story in my family about this Mae. Apparently, she died rather young, after the birth of her & Mike's daughter Eunice (who married William "Bill" Sammons). When Mae died, Mike did not have the money to purchase a plot to bury her. So my great-grandparents (Hopewell Carter, Sr. and Sally Ridgeway Carter) allowed her to be buried in their plot, although there's no stone for her. This is evidence of a connection, but it's no help, since it doesn't necessarily prove that Mae (nee Carter) was connected to Hopewell Carter, since the connection could just be because of Mike Ridgeway being a nephew of Sally (nee Ridgeway). Damn these Cheswold multi-connections! :-) Thanks, John P.S. Ray & Betty--the photos mentioned in the earlier message should be coming soon. I started to scan one last night, and my scanner started acting up again....
-----Original Message-----From: JACKLYN001@ [SMTP:JACKLYN001@]Sent: Sunday, September 05, 1999 10:33 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Joseph Mosley & Alberta Carney
In a message dated 9/3/1999 7:11:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,spiff@ writes:
>> However, I have found a discrepancy:>> I didn't know your Uncle Glendon was a son of JOSEPH H. Mosley.... I had him>> as a son of JAMES Mosley (brother of Joseph, Andrew, etc). Please verify.>> Was there a son James at all? Or is this an input error?
>> These are the children I had for Joseph C. Mosley and Margaret Carney:>> Joseph H(amilton) (m. Alberta Carney)>> Andrew (m. Angea Bell Coker)>> James (m. unknown)>> Sophie (m. Return Mosley) >>
- - - - - - - - - -
Hi John,
Uncle Glendon was definitely the child of Joseph and Alberta and the brotherofDorothy Mosley Morris and the others.
From my notes with Uncle Glendon, I show Joseph Mosley and Margaret Carneywith 4 children: Bessie Andrew married to Angie Bell Coker Nathaniel (Dec. 10, 1879 - ) married to Nancy Joseph HamiltonI don't have James or Sophie????
Unlce Glendon had a BROTHER , James "Goldie" Mosley.
I don't have any Mary Jane Carters either.
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 7:14 PMTo: 'JACKLYN001@'Cc: 'Terry, Betty & Ray'Subject: RE: Joseph Mosley & Alberta Carney
Hi, Lynn. Thanks for this info. Turns out I had some of it already. (Took me a moment to figure out who "Albert" was, since you typed it as "Albert" in both of your messages. Figured out you meant "Alberta").
However, I have found a discrepancy: I didn't know your Uncle Glendon was a son of JOSEPH H. Mosley.... I had him as a son of JAMES Mosley (brother of Joseph, Andrew, etc). Please verify. Was there a son James at all? Or is this an input error? These are the children I had for Joseph C. Mosley and Margaret Carney: Joseph H(amilton) (m. Alberta Carney) Andrew (m. Angea Bell Coker) James (m. unknown) Sophie (m. Return Mosley)
I'm not sure where I got that Glendon was a son of James....could it have been when I visited them a couple of years ago?? Though I doubt he would tell me the wrong name for his own father (!), so I must have goofed somewhere....
By the way, did I give you a copy of the photograph I duplicated of Margaret Carney Mosley? I made a copy when I visited Laura Mosely Clark (daughter of Andrew and Angea Bell) several years ago. It was a large old framed photo, similar to the one you have of Mary Ann Dean. If you'd like, I can scan a copy and e-mail to you (or send you a photographic copy as well). The bottom of the photograph has her name spelled as "Marguerite." (I think Laura has passed away; I wonder who got the original photo??)
Also, when I visited your Uncle Glendon and Aunt Mary Elva (fall, 1996??), I made copies of their photographs of:
1. Alberta Carney (as you mentioned, daughter of Shadrach), holding "grandson Wayne" as a baby.
2. Mary Elva Carter _______, daughter of Isaiah Carter and Mary Elva ______ Carter. (I have in my notes that she raised your Aunt Mary Elva [aka "Lu"], but I'm not sure how she connects to the Carters. I do have an isolated Isaiah Carter in my file, father of a "Mae" who married Mike C. Ridgeway, but am not sure if this is the same Isaiah Carter, and how he may connect to the rest of the Carters. Do you?)
3. Shade (Shadrach) Carney (29 May 1870-06 Jun 1933), son of Shary (Shade/Shadrach Sr) & Mary Jane Carty. (By the way, do any of you know how this Mary Jane Carty connects to the other Cartys?? Never been able to resolve this....)
On the same trip, I also acquired copies of these photos, but I can't remember for sure if I made the copies at Glendon's & Mary Elva's, or at Pinky's (Arlena Coker). I'm pretty sure these came from Pinky's:
4. Sara ______, wife of Harry Carney (20 Sep 1876 - ????), son of James Perry Carney and Harriett Durham. (Does anyone know her maiden name?)
5. Isaiah "Zed" Carney, (14 Dec 1889-????), also son of James Perry Carney and Harriett Durham.
6. Adline Mosley, who I was told was a sister of "Jim, John & Reb Seeney," and also the aunt of Harvey Durham. I do have an Adeline Seeney in my file as a daughter of Frederick Seeney and Hester Dean, and I show them as having a son James (Jim), but I don't show any John or Reb among their 12 children, unless these are nicknames / middle names. Can anyone confirm?
OK, that's all for this one. Thanks in advance, everyone, for any help you can provide! Let me know if you would like copies of any of these. JohnSubj: Burning ears?Date: 99-09-11 19:11:57 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray. I was discussing you and Betty with a cousin of mine in Cheswold (were your ears burning??), and thought you might find her comments of interest--
>> I didn't know who they were until your note.>> I don't know them , but I seen her at my Aunt Marys funeral>> And again last wed at her Mother sisters funeral. They passed>> about about three to,four weeks apart.>> Her Uncle Robert Davis was my Daddy's gardening buddie.>> They moved down in our neighborhood after retirement.>> Daddy was very upset when he passed.>> He(Robert)was related to my Mom some way. I didn't know>> that until Aunt Mary passed.I forget how my Aunt said it was,>> I do know it was on his mothers side.>> And Mrs Terry's parents are buried next to my sister.
My cousin is Arlena "Pinky" Coker, daughter of Rev. Roland "Tip" Coker and Hazella Sammons.
Does one of the Mitsawokett reports have the Davis family in it? I found references to Wilson S. Davis being the son of William Henry Davis & Orda Arbana Durham Davis (on the James Dean descendants page), but could not find a list of the other children. I know there was a brother James Edward Davis..... What is the connection to the Sammons? (Pinky's mother). Thanks, John
Subj: Re: Burning ears?Date: 99-09-11 20:34:46 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 99-09-11 19:11:57 EDT, you write:
> Sally Durham parents are: Daniel Durham, b. Oct 1850 Kent Co. De,>> D. Sept 9, 1931, Kent Co. De. and Caroline Carney b. Apr 1858,>> Kent Co. De., d. Dec 24, 1914 Kent Co. De.
I had Daniel Durham's birthdate as Oct 1849, per Lorraine (Nov 1998), and his deathdate as 09 JAN 1931, per Lorraine (Nov 1998) and also per Betty & Ray (Sep 1998). Other dates agree. Interesting that Sally was a daughter of Daniel and Caroline. I'd never had her listed on any previous lists of their children. But I never had any official records, so it was probably just an accidental omission.
>> Caroline Carney parents are: James Carney b. ab/ 1824, De. d.?>> and Sarah Sonja, b. ab/ 1827 De.
"Sonja"? Variation of SONGO? I had her name listed as Songo....
>> William Muntz parents are: Isaiah Zaddock Muntz/Munce b. Mar. 1835,>> De. md. 1859 Little Creek De. d. Jun 2, 1905 De. and Elmira Carter,>> b. 1840, d. 1920, De.
Wow, this is interesting. I never had this William connected to Isaiah/Zaddock, so this was good info. However, when I went to Isaiah/Zaddock in my file, I already had a son William listed there also, and had him as married to ANOTHER Sarah/Sally Durham, but this Sarah/Sally was a daughter of William Thomas Durham and Maymie Caroline Coxie Beckett. But I can tell this must obviously be an error, since the rest of William & Maymie Durham's children were all born between 1913 and 1930. So it doesn't make sense to have Sarah/Sally here, since she was born in 1875!!
And while we're on the subject of William Muntz....
>> ...William Muntz b. Jan 23, 1870, d. Jan 30, 1960...
I previously had William with a birthdate of ca. Dec 1869, but I had no notes as to where I got this, so I've now removed it in favor of your info, above. However, I do show that Isaiah/Zaddock and Elmira had a daughter Amelia Muntz who was born 09 Mar 1870 (& d. 11 Jan 1871), so how can she be born only a month and half after her brother? --Wait, wait, stop the press!-- Just dug in my Munce/Muntz/etc folder to see if I could find any census records, etc, of Isaiah/Zaddock's family, or something to show the source of Amelia's birthdate, and found a report written by (MayBelle Bordley??) which lists all the children of Isaiah/Zaddock and Elmira (except for Arlena) and their birthdates, and it has William listed as "foster son" (This is also the source of the Dec 1869 birthdate for William). Rose & Lorraine & Ray/Betty: Do any of you know about this? What do you make of the "foster son" claim?
>> I don't have Elmira father's name, but her mother was>> Rebecca Carter, b. Jan 12, 1813.
Her father's names was James Mason, according to her death certificate.
>> Check with Lorraine to link in Joseph Mosley, I don't have>> their children listed and I have him in the computer as being>> married to Marty.
Lorraine-- Do you know this Joseph Mosley's connection to the other Mosleys?
>> Also John P. Carney Sr. and Elizabeth Ridgeway had a son>> John P. "Jack" Carney, Jr. married "Bunny" Harmon. I believe>> Bunny right name is Shirley, I will check, I always call her by her>> nickname. I also have the death dates for John, Jr, Fred, and>> Roland Carney if you don't have them. I will look them up, let>> me know.
Yes, I received this info in your follow-up message. You knew I was going to ask, right? :-) Thanks!
OK, that's all for now. Thanks again very much for your help!!
Subj: RE: Burning ears / DurhamsDate: 99-09-11 23:59:41 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Betty & Ray. Thanks for the info. I added several more individuals from the site you gave me. In fact, Nicole Christine Davis became the 4000th person to be added to my FTM file for my father's side! I did have one question, however. At this site:
desc07.htm#95
...why does Mabel Elaine Davis' daughter Lisa Ann have the last name of Davis instead of Blackwell? Does she have a different father other than Robert James Blackwell? Just wanted to make sure I have it entered correctly.... Thanks again! John P.S. Do you know who the parents of Gertrude Rebecca Ridgeway Durham (wife of Isaiah "Zed" Durham) were? P.P.S. At this site: desc02.htm#510
...I noticed you have a Wilhemina (wife of John Kinsey Carney) listed as the 17th (!!) child of Angelica Songo Durham. But, according to my notes, this Wilhemina was a SISTER of Angelica, not a daughter. Just looking at this particular part of the family (Angelica & Hewitt's children), as well as some of the other children of Angelica's parents, William and Mahala, there seems to be some ironing out needed. Perhaps when I get some more free time, I can compare my data on them to whatever Joseph Romeo might have, as well as with Debbie Pierce Unger. Ah, another day...... JCC
Subj: Re: Burning ears / DurhamsDate: 99-09-12 00:50:52 EDTFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 99-09-11 23:59:41 EDT, you write:
Grrreat!
It appears that Elizabeth was b 1829, not William. But you are right. William b 1804 is not about to become a grandfather at age 25.
B&R
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Catherine CottDate: 99-09-22 17:40:38 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, Don & all. On Sep 21, Don wrote:
>> I was looking on your website for Catherines, since I>> quoted you in my files on Catherine Cott, b. 8 Feb 1828,>> daughter of John D. Cott and Sarah A. Dean. Do you>> have any other information about her?
Don, I'm not sure if you saw my message of September 4th, entitled "COTT Family & Connections," of which this is an excerpt:
>> No, I have nothing further on this Catherine. But I would>> not be surprised to find that more of the Cott family may>> have moved to Michigan. Old stories in my family told of>> "seven brothers" of the Cott family who moved "to Carson>> City, Michigan." However, research has uncovered only>> one brother (Don, don't forget about John Wesley Cott)>> who ever went there. Perhaps the story was twisted over>> the years, and originally referred to seven (or, rather,>> "several") siblings, not necessarily brothers.>> By the way, the date of Catherine's birth ...>> is from the Cott family Bible. If anyone who I haven't>> already sent copies to is interested, I am willing to send>> photocopies of the family pages from the Bible, which is>> in my possession. Just let me know. By the way, the>> records from these Bible pages are also posted on>> Lynn Jackson's web site.
Your speculation as to the identity of the Michigan Catherine sounds plausible to me. Perhaps a death record, if located, would identify her parents with certainty? Thanks, John
Subj: RE: Bessellieu, not BessellienDate: 99-09-23 20:41:50 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Thanks very much for this info. Finally had a chance to update my file. As for same-name marrying same-name, there was an instance in the Durhams of this occurring three generations in a row:
To start:
Enoch Durham, Sr. m. Martha Durham. their daughter, Lola Durham m. Harvey Durham. their daughter, Mabel Durham m. Roy Durham.
And that wasn't all!
The Roy Durham above was the son of: James E. H. Durham and Harriett Jane Durham and this Harriett Jane Durham was the daughter of: Hewitt Durham and Angelica Songo/Durham (?), and this Angelica Songo/Durham (?) was the daughter of: William Durham and Mahala Songo/Durham (?).
Talk about causing brains to spin!
(Another genealogy coincidence tale: Some of the above info came to Debbie Unger and I by way of a bizarre meeting: Debbie's family had told her of some distant Durham cousins who lived somewhere in Florida. Debbie and I discussed this, and decided to dig further. Eventually, we found out they lived in the city of Seminole, which was precisely where I lived at the time! So I looked them up in the phone book, and they were only a few blocks from me, about 10 minutes walking time! Unfortunately, the husband--James L. Durham, son of the Roy and Mabel above--had passed away less than a year earlier, and we did not get the chance to meet him. His wife, as well as a grown daughter with family of her own, both still live in the area).
(Hmm, speaking of this, I think I'm going to compile a list of all the strange coincidences / good-luck occurrences that have happened in the course of my years of genealogy research. There are just too many of them, it's freaky!)
Thanks again, John
Subj: FW: William Stanford HartDate: 99-09-30 22:31:20 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi. You may have already been aware of this, but I probably should have sent it to you the other day. My cousin told me of the funeral service being held on last Tuesday, for William Stanford Hart, former mayor (first black mayor) of East Orange, NJ. He was the husband of Gloria Mosley, daughter of Elmer Mosley and Hazel Carney. I can give you more info on their connection(s) if you need it. I imagine you already have this. I surfed around on the web tonight, trying to find info on him through newspapers' sites, East Orange NJ site, etc, but no success. Thanks, John
--------------------------------------------------
< snip >
Amanda Coker Carneys Granddaughter is burying her husband tomorrow. I stopped to the viewing tonight. Mr Hart was black, was the first black mayor of East Orange, NJ. They moved to Milford when they retired.
Hazel Mosley was Amandas daughter. Grand daughter is Gloria Mosley Hart.Mr Hart was preceded by a son William Hart, & a Daughter Cheryl Hart.Survived by wife and two daughters. Linda and her husband William Norwood,June Hart.all of East Ornage, a son and his wife Robert and Christiana, of Yeadon Pa.
< snip >
Subj: RE: Jeremiah Ridgeway (b. ca. 1865)Date: 99-10-01 23:28:52 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: wahoor@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie')CC: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Rose. Finally getting around to answering this one. Thanks for the info. Only a few questions--nothing too major, I think. Just a couple of clarifications needed.
Here's your list of Tilghman's children:
1. Elizabeth Ridgway approx. dates 18402. Matilda Ann Ridgway - 18413. Timothy Ridgway - 18424. Tillman Ridgway,Jr 18465. Francis "Frank" Ridgway 1847 (possible twins)6. Sarah Ridgway 18477. Susan Ridgway 18508. Letty or Hetty Ridgway 18529 Rebecca Ridgway 185410. Sylvester Ridgway 185611. Eliza Jane Ridgway 1859 (possible twins)12. Sina Ridgway 185913. John Henry Ridgway, Sr. 1863 (John Henry & Jeremiah were brothers.14. Jeremiah Ridgway, Sr. 186515. Greensbury Ridgway 1867
Here's my list:
Elizabeth ca. 1840 (per 1850 census)Timothy ca. 1842 (per 1850 census)Matilda ca. 1844 (per 1850 census)Francis/Frank ca. 1847 (per 1850 census)Sarah J. b. 15 Apr 1847 (per death certificate)Susan ca. 1850 (per 1850 census)Leticia ca. 1852 (per Lorraine)Sylvester b. 1856 (per Lorraine, info from 1860 census)Sina? ca. Nov 1859 (per Lorraine)Eliza Jane? ca. Nov 1859 (per Lorraine)John Henry b. 01 Mar 1861 (per tombstone at Fork Branch)Greensboro/Greensbury, Sr. b. 1867 (per tombstone in Immanuel / Manship)
Some of my dates are different from yours. Looks like I need to add Tilghman Jr., Rebecca, and to connect Jeremiah in here. (This is great to know Jeremiah is a son of Tilghman and Sina! I had wondered as to his parentage a long time. Now, we just need to find Tilghman's parents). (How did you find out about Tilghman Jr? He's not in the 1850 census.)
--------------------
Regarding Jeremiah Sr.'s two children that you gave me:
2 - Children were:1. Lola Ridgway md. Connie Archer lived in Phila. 2. Earl Jeremiah Ridgway. Sr., b. 1885, md. Sarah Virginia Carter
I have Lola's birthdate as 23 Feb 1883 in Cheswold, (d. 12 May 1970 in Depford, NJ), in case you need it. (From Chuck Seeney, when his cousin William Seeney, grandson of Lola, was visiting him back in August). I also have her husband's name as Isaac Archer, Sr., not Connie. Was "Connie" a nickname? (One of their son's name was Cornelius. Could HE have been the "Connie"?)
--------------------
Regarding your list of the children of Earl Jeremiah Ridgeway, Sr. and Sarah Virginia Carter:
Earl Jeremiah Ridgeway, Sr & Sarah Virginia Carter4- Children:1. Margarite Ridgeway2. James Perry Ridgeway3. Earl Jeremiah Ridgeway, Jr. md. Bessie Mosley4. Lola Mae Ridgeway md. Forrest Seeney
I had these children listed:
1. Earl "Squirrel" Jeremiah Ridgeway, Jr., married Bessie Mosley2. Lola Ridgeway, (1921-1978), married Forrest L. Seeney3. Arbana Ridgeway, married Elmer Seeney4. Margaret Deborah Ridgway, met James Edward Davis (one daughter out of wedlock, Arbana Birdella Ridgway who married Benjamin Franklin Ridgeway, Jr. and Ned Porter Newhard).
So, you had a James Perry that I didn't, and I had an Arbana that you didn't.
----------------------------
Regarding your list of Sarah & Return's children:
Sarah Virginia Carter also married Return Johnson
5 - Children were:1. Isiah Johnson2. Esther Johnson3. Anna Johnson4. James Franklyn Johnson (Frank) md. Mary Carney (This is not Thomas Johnson & Mahala Ridgeway, Johnson son Frank.)5. Willest (Bill) Johnson md. Heneritta Carey
I had these children:
1. Esther, married a Reed.2. Willis3. Mary Virginia, married a Morgan.
You don't have Mary Virginia on your list....so should there be a total of 6 children? Regarding Frank's wife Mary Carney--who is she the daughter of? Could she be the daughter of James Robert Carney and Effilinda "Effie" Reed? I show their daughter Mary married "a Johnson."
---------------------
OK, that's all. Not too bad, I hope. Let me know if you have any questions or comments. Thanks again! John
-----Original Message-----From: wahoo [SMTP:wahoor@]Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 4:14 AMTo: spiff@Cc: lfreida15@Subject: Re: P.S. RE: Jeremiah Ridgeway (b. ca. 1865)
Hi John,
O.K lets try this again. I went back and checked my files, I did skip ageneration.These names are really confusing. Too many Jeremiah Earl, and EarlJeremiah's.
This is the info I have received so far.
Tillman Ridgway/Jack and Sina Mosley, Ridgway/Jack
15 - Children:1. Elizabeth Ridgway approx. dates 18402. Matilda Ann Ridgway - 18413. Timothy Ridgway - 18424. Tillman Ridgway,Jr 18465. Francis "Frank" Ridgway 1847 (possible twins)6. Sarah Ridgway 18477. Susan Ridgway 18508. Letty or Hetty Ridgway 18529 Rebecca Ridgway 185410. Sylvester Ridgway 185611. Eliza Jane Ridgway 1859 (possible twins)12. Sina Ridgway 185913. John Henry Ridgway, Sr. 1863 (John Henry & Jeremiah were brothers.14. Jeremiah Ridgway, Sr. 186515. Greensbury Ridgway 1867---------------------------------------------------------
Jeremiah Ridgway, Sr. b. 1865, son of Tillman & Sina Ridgway, md. HarrietHughes, b.1869 -
2 - Children were:
1. Lola Ridgway md. Connie Archer lived in Phila.
2. Earl Jeremiah Ridgway. Sr., b. 1885, md. Sarah Virginia Carter.
__________________
Earl Jeremiah Ridgeway, Sr & Sarah Virginia Carter4- Children:
1. Margarite Ridgeway2. James Perry Ridgeway3. Earl Jeremiah Ridgeway, Jr. md. Bessie Mosley4. Lola Mae Ridgeway md. Forrest Seeney_______Sarah Virginia Carter also married Return Johnson
5 - Children were:1. Isiah Johnson2. Esther Johnson3. Anna Johnson4. James Franklyn Johnson (Frank) md. Mary Carney (This is not Thomas Johnson & Mahala Ridgeway, Johnson son Frank.)5. Willest (Bill) Johnson md. Heneritta Carey
The infor above is were the half bro. & sister's came in._____Earl J. Ridgeway, Jr. and Bessie Mosley Ridgeway
2 - Children:
1. Earl Lovey Ridgeway md. Annetta Ridgeway (dau. Ben & Dorothy Morgan Ridgeway
2. Lola Clara Ridgeway md. Herbert Gibbs - lived in Phila. PresentlyRetired and living in Delaware._________________Earl J. " Lovey" Ridgeway & Annetta Ridgeway dau. of Ben & Dorothy MorganRidgeway.
4 - Children:
1. Gary Ridgeway2. David Ridgeway3. Rodger Ridgeway4. Robin Ridgeway - (Deceased)
Thomas Johnson & Mahala Ridgway's son Frank Johnson md. Mary Liz , but herlast name we do not know.
Well John, I hope this helps, I had to print out the charts and copied theinformation right from the charts. I would send you the charts, but I havenot learn to send anything from this Family O file yet, I tried sendingsomething to Betty & Ray, but she never received it. I even have a scannerI don't know how to use it either. I have a lot of family photo's to share.Well I have to go. Get back to me with your questions, I'm sure you willhave some.
Sweetsie
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter To: 'wahoo' Cc: 'Terry, Betty & Ray' ; 'Gregg, Lorraine'Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 3:23 PMSubject: P.S. RE: Jeremiah Ridgeway (b. ca. 1865)
> Yes, that's what I meant in my original message, as a hint of there>possibly being a connection (brothers?) between John Henry Ridgeway, Sr.>and Jeremiah Ridgeway, Sr. John Henry might have named his son after his>brother.> John>>-----Original Message----->From: wahoo [SMTP:wahoor@]>Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 2:17 AM>To: spiff@>Subject: Re: Jeremiah Ridgeway (b. ca. 1865)>>Hi again,>>I forget to tell you, John Henry Ridgeway and Minnie Durham had a son>Jeremiah also.>>Sweetsie>>>-----Original Message----->From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]>Sent: Sunday, August 08, 1999 11:26 PM>To: 'Ridgeway, Rose Marie'; 'Gregg, Lorraine'>Subject: Jeremiah Ridgeway (b. ca. 1865)>> Hi, Lorraine & Rose.> How are you? Well, I hope.> I received a message recently from Chuck Seeney, and we were discussing>Jeremiah Ridgeway (b. ca. 1865), husband of Harriett Hughes (b. ca. 1869).> To my knowledge, we don't know how Jeremiah connects to the other Ridge>ways yet, right?> I got to thinking about the Jeremiah Ridgway, son of John Henry Ridgway>(1861-1919) and Minnie Durham (1871-1946), and wondered if he might have>been named after the elder Jeremiah. I began speculating whether the elder>Jeremiah might have been a brother of John Henry, since their ages are>similar. However, I see in some of my e-mails from last year that you both>have noted several census records in the past, listing the children of>Tilghman & Sina, and there was never a Jeremiah listed.> What do you think?> Do you have any thoughts as to who the parents of Jeremiah (b. ca. 1865)>might be?> Thanks for your help!> John>>John C. Carter
Subj: RE: Promised photosDate: 99-10-03 12:07:11 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn')
Hi, Ray & Betty (and Lynn). Finally fought with my scanner long enough to get these six photos scanned. (Had to shut down and reboot my system about 10 times in order to finally finish all six!) Anyway, I will send them in six separate follow-up messages, each with one attachment, to avoid any problems. Let me know if you don't receive them in good order..... Sorry it took so long. Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 10:19 PMTo: 'Terry, Betty & Ray'Subject: Hello
Hi, Betty & Ray. Sorry, have been very busy lately.
< snip >
P.S. Haven't forgotten the photos to be scanned and sent!
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 12:05 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Joseph Mosley & Alberta Carney
< snip >
Re: Pictures -- if you can send them via e-mail, please do so!
B&R
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 7:14 PMTo: 'JACKLYN001@'Cc: 'Terry, Betty & Ray'Subject: RE: Joseph Mosley & Alberta Carney
Hi, Lynn.
< snip >
Also, when I visited your Uncle Glendon and Aunt Mary Elva (fall, 1996??), I made copies of their photographs of:
1. Alberta Carney (as you mentioned, daughter of Shadrach), holding "grandson Wayne" as a baby.
2. Mary Elva Carter _______, daughter of Isaiah Carter and Mary Elva ______ Carter. (I have in my notes that she raised your Aunt Mary Elva [aka "Lu"], but I'm not sure how she connects to the Carters. I do have an isolated Isaiah Carter in my file, father of a "Mae" who married Mike C. Ridgeway, but am not sure if this is the same Isaiah Carter, and how he may connect to the rest of the Carters. Do you?)
3. Shade (Shadrach) Carney (29 May 1870-06 Jun 1933), son of Shary (Shade/Shadrach Sr) & Mary Jane Carty. (By the way, do any of you know how this Mary Jane Carty connects to the other Cartys?? Never been able to resolve this....)
On the same trip, I also acquired copies of these photos, but I can't remember for sure if I made the copies at Glendon's & Mary Elva's, or at Pinky's (Arlena Coker). I'm pretty sure these came from Pinky's:
4. Sara ______, wife of Harry Carney (20 Sep 1876 - ????), son of James Perry Carney and Harriett Durham. (Does anyone know her maiden name?)
5. Isaiah "Zed" Carney, (14 Dec 1889-????), also son of James Perry Carney and Harriett Durham.
6. Adline Mosley, who I was told was a sister of "Jim, John & Reb Seeney," and also the aunt of Harvey Durham. I do have an Adeline Seeney in my file as a daughter of Frederick Seeney and Hester Dean, and I show them as having a son James (Jim), but I don't show any John or Reb among their 12 children, unless these are nicknames / middle names. Can anyone confirm?
OK, that's all for this one. Thanks in advance, everyone, for any help you can provide! Let me know if you would like copies of any of these. John
Subj: 1. Alberta Carney MosleyDate: 99-10-03 13:52:17 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn')
File: Alberta.JPG (13910 bytes)DL Time (28800 bps): < 1 minute
1. Alberta Carney (wife of Joseph H. Mosley; daughter of Shadrach Carney), holding "grandson Wayne" as a baby.(Don't know who Wayne's parents were).
Subj: 2. Mary Elva Carter MorganDate: 99-10-03 13:53:02 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn')
File: MaryElva.JPG (13559 bytes)DL Time (28800 bps): < 1 minute
(On 9/04/99, I wrote):
2. Mary Elva Carter _______, daughter of Isaiah Carter and Mary Elva ______ Carter. I have in my notes that she raised [Lynn's] Aunt Mary Elva (aka "Lu"), but I'm not sure how she connects to the Carters. I do have an isolated Isaiah Carter in my file, father of a "Mae" who married Mike C. Ridgeway, but am not sure if this is the same Isaiah Carter, and how he may connect to the rest of the Carters. Do you?
(On 9/05/99, Lynn replied):
Mary Elva Carter was born in Maryland and was married to Leomond MORGAN, thebrother of my grandfather Edward Morgan. When my grandmother, Mamie Durham, died, Aunt Lu went to live with Uncle Leomond and and Aunt Elva and theyraised her. They lived just up the road from where Aunt Lu and Uncle Glendonlive now. Aunt Elva died in 1949 and my uncle married Alberta Harmon fromMillsoboro. I have never been able to connect her father Isaiah Carter with William and Elizabeth's descendants but I can't image she's NOT related.According to my mom, Aunt Elva knew the Cheswold people better than my UncleLeomond did.
Subj: 4. Sara Jane Mosley Harmon CarneyDate: 99-10-03 13:54:44 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn')
File: Sara.JPG (18482 bytes)DL Time (28800 bps): < 1 minute
(On 9/04/99, I wrote):
4. Sara ______, wife of Harry Carney (20 Sep 1876 - ????), son of James Perry Carney and Harriett Durham. (Does anyone know her maiden name?)
(On 9/04/99, Ray & Betty wrote):
How's this? --
Date: 99-01-21From: LFREIDA 15 (Lorraine Johnson-Gregg)David m Lucinda Mosley, dau of John and Elizabeth Johnson Mosley, sister ofJohn E. Johnson. Their children were David J.r m Mary Ridgway, Essie mClaude Pritchett, Sarah m Harvey Harmon first, then Harry Carney, Taft mSarah Banks first, then Bessie Daniels from Tenn. Philip m Beatrice Durham,Dupont m Mary Carney, Maybelle m Harry Durham, then Walton Seeney, thenRaymond Durham. The Durhams: sons of Minous Durham, son of Daniel andCarolyn Carney Durham. Rosevelt m Catherine Mosley. dau of Anna Carney andHerbert Mosley. There may have been more children. Again most of thisfamily moved to this area.----Sarah Jane Mosley b c Apr 1893 d 28 Nov 1938 Monroeville, Salem, New Jersey,info in a GEDCOM from Lorraine.
(On 9/04/99, I wrote):
Do we know that this is the same Harry Carney (i.e. the son of James Perry Carney and Harriett Durham)? I do only have the one Harry Carney in my file, but I also have a Harrison Carney (son of Thomas Carney and Susan Munce/Sammons) who might be around the same age as well (since his mother was born in 1857). Also, Lorraine's note says that Sarah married Harvey Harmon first, then Harry Carney. If true, then they must have divorced, since Sarah died in 1938 but Harvey Harmon lived until 1956. Lorraine: Can you confirm?
(On 9/07/99, Lorraine wrote):
Sarah Mosley m Harvey Harmon first they had a daughterPhlina Harmon who in turn m Minous Carney, then Sarah m Harry Carney son ofJames Perry and Harriet Durham Carney. Eleanor (Peatie) Olin is thegranddaughter of Sarah Mosley and Harvey Harmon. Info from Peatie and herfather Minous Carney.
Subj: 5. Isaiah "Zed" CarneyDate: 99-10-03 13:55:55 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn')
File: Isaiah.JPG (25767 bytes)DL Time (28800 bps): < 1 minute
5. Isaiah "Zed" Carney, (14 Dec 1889-????), son of James Perry Carney and Harriett Durham.(Isaiah was a twin brother of my great-grandmother Phebe Carney Coker Reed).
Subj: 6. Adline Seeney MosleyDate: 99-10-03 13:56:42 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn')
File: Adline.JPG (20205 bytes)DL Time (28800 bps): < 1 minute
(On 9/04/99, I wrote):
6. Adline Mosley, who I was told was a sister of "Jim, John & Reb Seeney," and also the aunt of Harvey Durham. I do have an Adeline Seeney in my file as a daughter of Frederick Seeney and Hester Dean, and I show them as having a son James (Jim), but I don't show any John or Reb among their 12 children, unless these are nicknames / middle names. Can anyone confirm?
(On 9/04/99, Ray & Betty wrote):
>> We have 12 children for Fred Seeney, no John>> or nickname Reb.
(Also on 9/04/99, Ray & Betty wrote--to Seeney researchers):
>> John Carter posed a question to us.>> We don't know the answer. Do any of the>> Seeneys know?>> Who are John & Reb Seeney?
(On 9/04/99, Beverley Phipps wrote):
>> Sorry. I never even heard of John and Reb Seeney.>> If you ever find out, please let me know.
(On 9/04/99, Chuck Seeney wrote):
>> In my database I have a John Seeney,>> b. ca. 1848, son of James & Sarah Grenage.>> His siblings are listed as Rhoda, Melvina,>> Elizabeth, Samuel, Sallie, and Adekine(sp?).>> Is this what you are looking for?
(On 9/04/99, I wrote):
>> We are trying to find a family that have among>> their children ones named Jim, John, Reb, and>> Adline/Adeline, all in the same family.>> Do you have any Seeney/Seaney familys that could fit this?
Subj: RE: James Seeney & Sarah Grenage SeeneyDate: 99-10-03 15:46:58 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: seen1@worldnet. ('Charles E. Seeney')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Chuck. Regarding the Seeneys you mentioned below, do you know how this James connects with the other Seeneys of the area? I have a Rhoda in my database as marrying Marvel Durham, Sr., but I don't have her parents listed. Could this be the same Rhoda? Thanks! John
-----Original Message-----From: Charles E. Seeney [SMTP:seen1@worldnet.]Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 1:03 PMTo: AquaBetty@Cc: John C. CarterSubject: Re: Who are John & Reb Seeney?
Hello Again:
In my database I have a John Seeney, b. ca. 1848, son of James & Sarah Grenage.His siblings are listed as Rhoda, Melvina, Elizabeth, Samuel, Sallie, andAdekine(sp?). Is this what you are looking for?
Chuck (OK) Seeney
----------------------------------------------------------
AquaBetty@ wrote:
> Hi all,>> John Carter posed a question to us. We don't know the answer. Do any of the> Seeneys know?>> in my file as a daughter of Frederick Seeney and Hester Dean, and I show> them as having a son James (Jim), but I don't show any John or Reb among> their 12 children, unless these are nicknames / middle names.>>>> Who are John & Reb Seeney?>> B&R Terry
Subj: RE: Frank Johnson & Mary Carney JohnsonDate: 99-10-03 18:58:42 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: RWahoor@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine')
Hi, Rose.
Regarding my question:
"...Frank's wife Mary Carney--who is she the daughter of? Could she be the daughter of James Robert Carney and Effilinda "Effie" Reed? I show their daughter Mary married "a Johnson."
I just noticed that you already answered this in your message of September 4th, and verified that she was indeed their daughter. Thanks, and sorry for the confusion. John
Subj: RE: Joseph Mosley & Alberta CarneyDate: 99-10-03 18:59:12 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn')
File: JOSEPH.DOC (69120 bytes)DL Time (28800 bps): < 1 minute
Hi, Ray & Betty. Had a chance to go over the document in your message attached below.
Had a few questions / comments:
1. You have Joseph Hamilton Mosley's birthdate as 15 May 1887/88, but Lynn's message to me on 8/30 gave his birthdate as 5 May 1888, not 15 May. Lynn: can you verify this wasn't a typo?
2. You have a son James Mosley (married: unknown) as a child of Joseph Mosley and Margaret Carney. If this James is based on my GEDCOM from 3/98, his name need to be eliminated. This is the James I had mistakenly listed as Glendon's father, when Glendon is actually a son of Joseph H.
3. Among the children of Joseph Mosley and Margaret Carney, you do not have daughter Sophie (wife of Return Mosley) listed on this report, although she is listed as their child on the Mitsawokett report (under "Descendants of John & Sally Mosley"), and her birthdate is given as 1883. You also have a son Earnest / Ern Mosley listed on the attached report, but I don't think his name was on the Mitsawokett report.
4. I notice your notes (#4) for Elva Hansley (wife of Nelson Mosley) quote either the Weslager notes, or Weslager's "Forgotten Folk," but it does not mention the author. The first-person narrative makes it sound as if you (Ray & Betty) were the narrators. Might be misleading to some future researcher.
5. Under #17, Laura Mosley, it states that her first husband was Thomas Alvin Mosley, son of J. Thomas Mosley and Lola N. Seeney. I have Lola's parents, but do you have the parents of J. Thomas Mosley? I would like to try to tie him in with the other Mosleys.
6. Also under Laura Mosley, your notes state that according to someone named Jean Foster, Laura and Calvin had no children together. However, my records show that they had two daughters: Barbara and Constance. If this Jean Foster states that they had no children, then who were the parents of Barbara and Constance? (Constance is the one who married a Bessellieu, of your recent e-mail correcting the spelling from Bessellien to Bessellieu). --Oh, wait. I see on the next page that Jean Foster says these two were daughters of Laura by her first husband Thomas Alvin Mosley. I'll have to go back and check where my data came from.... I'm not sure, but I think it came from Mary E. Mosley Draine, who I corresponded with back in the mid-1970's....
7. Also under Laura & Calvin, it mentions (by Weslager) that Calvin was a brother of Charles Clark, son of Chief (Wm.) Russell Clark. Do you have the exact lineage for the main (chiefs) Clarks? I show that Charles C. Clark IV is the son of Kenneth Clark, but how does Kenneth's line go back up to the elder Charles(es) and William Russell?
8. Under #18, Pearl Mosley, it states that she married Gardiner Mosley, son of Frazier Mosley and Elsie N. Kimmey. Do you know who Frazier was the son of? (Or Elsie?)
9. Under #24, Dorothy Bernice Mosley, who married William C. "Bill" Morris on 21 Mar 1936, there was another child listed whom I did not have in my records: Joseph L. Mosley Sr. However, since his last name was Mosley, and since he was born in 1932 (4 years before Dorothy married Bill), it would seem to me that this was probably an illegitimate child of Dorothy's, by someone prior to Bill. Do you have any info which might confirm this, or who the father might be?
10. The five children (#55-59) that are listed under Linwood Melvin Mosley Sr. (#27)....is it fairly certain that these are all children by his first wife, Emma B. Cuff? Is it known whether he had any children by his 2nd wife (Eva Mae Sammons)? I notice in Michele Pierce's message that's quoted in the notes that she doesn't mention the daughter Joyce. Do we assume she just forgot?
OK, that's all. Thanks so much for sharing this info, and sorry it took me so long (one month exactly!) to respond. Thanks again, John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 11:36 PMTo: spiff@; JACKLYN001@Subject: Re: Joseph Mosley & Alberta Carney
In a message dated 99-09-03 19:11:27 EDT, you write:
>
Attached is what we have for Joseph and descendants.More later. Subj: RE: Constance Mosley BesselieuDate: 99-10-03 22:38:03 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Wow, I had seen your message a couple of weeks ago, mentioning Constance and the misspelling of Bessellieu, but I had no idea she had reacted to having "the wrong father" as well. Thanks for the info, and I apologize for my part in your having an error in the record. I hope she didn't chew you out too hard. I've corrected my file as well. I dug a little while and found the source of my error--the letter from Mary E. Mosley Draine, dated 20 Aug 1975. She wrote: "Laura Mosley 1st husband - Alvin Mosley (deceased) 2nd husband Calvin Clark. They have two daughters, Barbara and Constance. Barbara married Col. C. B. Jiggetts, have one daughter Vicki. Constance married Chas. Bessellieu (deceased), 3 children, 1. Karen Bessellieu, 2. Chas. Bessellieu Jr., 3. Thomas T. Bessellieu." I can see now that what I'd thought was an "n" at the end of the Bessellieu name was actually a "u" but her handwriting is deceiving. Also, with the way she worded the part about the daughters I just assumed she meant they were the daughters of the 2nd husband. Oh, well, all corrected now....
However, as for this part:
>> Jean Foster is Eugenia (Jean) Foster EFoster177@>> and is a member of the list. Her grandmother is Virginia Mae>> Mosley who married William Wilson Sterrett. Virginia's>> parents were Alexander Mosley and Mary Priscilla Ridgway>> or Jack.
Hmm, the only Alexander Mosley I have in my file is the one b. ca. 1839 (son of Purnell Sr. and Rebecca) who married Susan Brown. Where does the above Alexander Mosley tie in? Also, I could not find a Mary Priscilla Ridgway or Jack in my file. I am familiar with the family of Tilghman Ridgway being aka Jack, but I don't see a Mary Priscilla among their 15 (!!) children. Do you know how she ties in?
Thanks again! John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Sunday, October 03, 1999 9:39 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Constance Mosley Besselieu
In a message dated 99-10-03 18:59:12 EDT, you write:
> Caroline (Hansley) Mosley.>> Morris seems to be a common middle and "call">> name amongst our families.
Hmm, I do not have this William Morris Mosley in my data. The only one I have is William Morris / Maurice "Mike" Mosley, born 17 Apr 1896 and married to Sadie White.
Regarding this:
>> 3. Delilah Mosley m Wm Carter from MD
Do we know who this William Carter was?
Regarding this: Since Lucinda is listed here...
>> 1870 Federal Census Roll 119, page>> (Nat'l Archives, Wash, DC)>> Frederica, Milford Hundred, Kent Co, DE.>> Family 135.>> NRNW=no read, no write>> MOSLEY, Morris m age 31, farmer, $160 pers prop,>> race M, born Del, NRNW>> Caroline f age 25 keeping house>> Enoch D. m 3 >> Lucinda f 10/12>> Philip H. m 11 (all- race M, b Del, NRNW)>> Mary J. f 13>> Jacob m 8>> Purnel m 18 farmhand
...why is she not listed among the 13 children listed (from Lorraine) following the census entry? What became of Philip, Mary & Jacob? Purnell, undoubtedly Mary, and perhaps some of the others are too old to be children of Caroline and/or Morris. Who are they and how do they connect to other Mosleys?
And regarding this:
>> Bill Davis made the following notations:>> 1) Joseph Mosley's brother was Morris Mosley>> 2) that Bessie, Andrew & Nathaniel Mosley are first cousins to Doris's>> grandfather Horace Greely Mosley.>> Conclusion: Bessie, Andrew & Nathaniel were children of Purnell & Rebecca>> Miller Mosley and 1st cousins to Horace Greely Mosley, therefore>> Morris Mosley is a brother to Purnell who married Rebecca>> Miller.
Confused here.... I show Bessie, Andrew & Nathaniel as children of JOSEPH C. Mosley, not PURNELL & REBECCA. ??? (I keep trying to figure this one out, but my brain keeps frying....)
Will think about it some more later....
Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Sunday, October 03, 1999 9:30 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Joseph Mosley & Alberta Carney
Hi John,
Thanks for the pictures--they came out great! We will eventually put them on the web site.
In a message dated 99-10-03 18:59:12 EDT, you write:
> Debbie Unger,>> I noticed on Gail Masengale's family page that you>> are a granddaughter of Sadie Durham. I have a>> 1920 census record of Sadie Durham, age 16, living>> in Elmer Borough, Salem Co., NJ, a niece of Orson>> and Mary (Durham) Greenage. Do you have the>> names of Sadie's parents and further information>> about them?
Hi, Joseph. I haven't spoken to Debbie in a little while, but I don't think her computer is fixed yet. So I thought I might take the liberty of answering this for her. Her grandmother Sadie Durham (Jun 1903-Apr 1924), wife of Hartley V. R. Pierce, Sr., was a daughter of James E. H. "Porter" Durham (10 May 1867-27 Nov 1931) and Harriett Jane Durham (ca. Aug 1869-30 Apr 1909). James was the illegitimate son of an unknown father and Margaret Durham (b. 1844), who was the daughter of Benjamin Durham II (ca. 1823-01 Sep 1888). Harriett Jane was the daughter of Hugh / Hewitt Durham (1829-09 Dec 1902) and Angelica [Songo / Durham] (ca. 1846-10 Feb 1899).
Hope this helps! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Wilmina Durham and John CarneyDate: 99-10-07 20:10:07 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
On 07 Oct 99, Stacey wrote:
>> What are the birthdate/death date on John Carney????>> Where did they live?
Then, on 07 Oct 99, Joseph replied:
>> Wilmina (or Wilhelmina) Durham was born ca. 1858.>> John Carney was born ca. 1854. Married ca. 1875.>> Resided 1880 in Kenton Hundred, Kent Co., DE.>> Resided 1900 still in Kenton Hundred. I have no>> further info. You may want to check John Carter's>> family page on the Carneys to see if he has additional>> info
Not sure if someone else may have responded already (since I receive the Digest version of this list, I won't know until tomorrow morning).... According to my notes: John A. "Kinsey" Carney (14 Oct 1851-16 Mar 1939) was the son of Shary (aka Shadrach Sr.) Carney and Mary Jane Carty. (John's birthdate from the Carty / Wyatt family Bible; death date courtesy of Lorraine Gregg, taken from the Evergreen Cemetery aka Gouldtown Cemetery, Lot 100). Shary Carney was born ca. 1825 per Preston Sammons; ca. 1828 per a cousin not on this list. Shary and Mary were married 04 Sep 1849, per the Carty / Wyatt family Bible. Shary, in turn, was the son of John Carney (b. ca. 1798) and Louisa _____ (b. ca. 1806). (Info. passed to me by the cousin not on this list). Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks, John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Children of Hugh and Angelica DurhamDate: 99-10-07 21:08:39 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
On 07 Oct 1999, Joseph wrote:
>> I think some of the names are out of place.>> Hugh and Angelica did not have children>> together until after 1860. The earliest child>> I have documented is named Parker, b.>> ca. 1863.>> Wilhemina Durham, b. ca. 1858, who married>> John Carney, was a daughter of William and>> Mahala Durham, and so a sister of Angelica>> Durham.
My records agree that Wilhemina was a daughter of William and Mahala. As for the rest of Rose's list, I had most of the same children listed, with the exception of Elisha. (But I believe most of my records of this family came from Rose and Lorraine a couple of years ago, before I noted sources in my FTM--I would have to dig through my paperwork to verify). (Joseph: I never heard of Parker--?) As for Elisha, I'm wondering if his name got in there somehow from confusion over the parentage of Hugh (aka Hewitt) as possibly being a son of the Elisha Durham b. ca. 1794, (which I disagree with). This Elisha had a son and a grandson named Elisha. Also, Joseph brings up a good point as to the ages involved among the purported children of Hugh and Angelica. My notes show their children's birth years ranging from 1855 (for Martha) down to 1888 (for Ella), but I also have Angelica's birthyear as ca. 1846, making her only NINE (!!) years old at the time of Martha's birth. But my notes also show that there has been confusion for years over the true identity of Hugh/Hewitt's wife. Some sources say she was Angelica Sonka/Songa/Songo, whereas other sources say she was Ann/Anna Durham, daughter of William and Mahala. (Debbie Unger has some info on this, I believe). Perhaps there were TWO wives, and this would explain the ages of the early children. I don't have enough notes on the Angelica vs. Ann discrepancy-- Does anyone have supporting material for this? Thanks,
Subj: FW: Mary, wife of DuPont MosleyDate: 99-09-04 13:42:27 EDTFrom: spiff@atlanticnet (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Thought I would forward Lorraine's reply to you. I'm not sure what to make out, in a case like this. I want to strive for the most accuracy/honesty, but we have to respect the family's wishes as well.... ??? John P.S. One can't help but wonder how many of these "secrets" were hiding in past generations....
-----Original Message-----From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 4:15 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Mary, wife of DuPont Mosley
Hi John,
Yes, that is what is on her b certificate. Mary was my Mother's firstcousin, we were privy to info that slipped through, some of the familywouldn't want it on the net. I think we should play safe and use what is onthe b certificate. Her mother Anna Carney and Charles Pearce were m at thetime of her birth.
Lorraine
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Saturday, August 28, 1999 11:50 AMTo: 'LFREIDA15@'Subject: RE: Mary, wife of DuPont Mosley
Hi, Lorraine. Since you mention the birth certificate.... Does the birth certificate actually SAY that Charles Pearce was her father? If so, that's the way I'll enter it in my FTM. Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 11:07 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Mary, wife of DuPont Mosley
John:
Mary Pearce wife of DuPont Mosley, has Pearce on her birth certificate, sothat is what we have to go with. Anna Carney was m to Charles Pearce at thetime of Mary's birth.
Lorraine
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 9:57 PMTo: 'Terry, Betty & Ray'Cc: 'Gregg, Lorraine'Subject: Mary, wife of DuPont Mosley
Hi, Ray & Betty. In regard to the surname of Mary, wife of DuPont Mosley (b. 1911), on this page:
ll_bc1818/desc05.htm#444
...Your page has that her maiden name was PEARCE, but according to the e-mail message I received from Lorraine Gregg, attached below, her maiden name was Carney. She also mentions that Mary Carney was the daughter of Anna Janet Carney who "later married Charles Pearce." Sounds like Mary took her mother's maiden name, who was unmarried at the time.
Lorraine: Do we know who Mary's father was?
Thanks! John
-----Original Message-----From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Thursday, October 22, 1998 12:59 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Misc catch-up...
Hi John:
< snip >
Mary Jane Mosley, dau of Dupont Mosley and Mary Carney, Dupont son of Davidand Lucinda Mosley Mosley. Mary Carney oldest dau of Anna Janet Carney, dauof Joseph and Mary Dean Carney. Anna Janet Carney,later m Charles Pearce.Lynford Boyd Seeney, son of Mamie Seeney b 12/14/1888, dau of Samuel Seeneyand Mary Ann Muntz. No father listed for Lynford.
< snip >
Have to quit now
Lorraine
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: James E. H. "Porter" Durham, Margaret Durham, Hugh/Hewitt DurhamDate: 99-10-11 22:33:11 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
To follow-up on my message entitled "James E. H. 'Porter' Durham" of Friday, October 8th:
I spoke with Debbie Unger over the weekend, and she has shared more details regarding her research of James E. H. "Porter" Durham and his mother, Margaret Durham Burton Northern: The marriage record I mentioned in my previous message came from the Delaware Archives.
James' burial at the Old Stone Church is based on the death certificate, as well as oral history, only. There is no marker for him at the cemetery, and there are no cemetery records documenting such. He is allegedly buried in the same plot as Hartley Pierce Sr. & Sadie Durham Pierce.
Joseph--you mentioned you had info from the 1880 census (James enumerated in Joel's household). Debbie would like to please have a copy of this, if possible. Let me know if you need me to send you her address. (She already has a copy of the 1870 census).
The point about James being listed in Joel Durham's household as a grandson-- Debbie speculated this could possibly be because one of Joel's sons might have been James' natural father. However, another oral tradition holds that James' natural father may have been a Porter, hence James' nickname.
As for Margaret-- Debbie has searched the entire census from 1880 - 1920 without finding Margaret (in Delaware or New Jersey, I believe she said). She speculated whether Margaret might have lived in Philadelphia, which she hasn't searched yet.
Debbie also has searched for any marriage record in Delaware, showing Margaret's marriage to either of her two husbands (Burton or Northern), but none could be found.
As of Hugh / Hewitt Durham having two wives-- Debbie reminded me of the collection of old photos she has that belonged to her father before he passed away. After his passing, Debbie circulated copies of these photos to several individuals, in an attempt to identify the persons in them. One of them included Hugh's daughter Martha Durham Durham and some sisters. But Martha appeared to be significantly older than the sisters in the photograph, so much so that Debbie initially thought this woman (unknown at the time) to be a mother of the other girls in the photo. However, Helen Pierce Mosley, daughter of Katie Durham Pierce (Hugh's daughter), identified the older female in the photo as Martha, and told Debbie that Martha helped to raise the younger children after Hugh's first wife died. So this substantiates the fact of Hugh having had two wives, of which Angelica was the 2nd.
Speaking of photos-- Debbie mentioned that she is more than willing to share copies of any of the old photos she has, to anyone who might be interested. (Some are still not identified). One of the photos is also of Hugh's daughter Mary Durham Greenage and her husband Orson.
As for her computer, Debbie hopes to have it up and running again soon. If you have any questions for her beforehand, let me know and I'll be happy to pass the word along. --- John P.S. I have a copy of a photo of Joel Durham, if anyone is interested.
Subj: Aunt Catherine & Aunt LauraDate: 99-10-12 19:07:45 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
Hi, Ray & Betty.Thanks for the message. Yes, I spoke to my Aunt Evelyn in Bridgeton on Saturday, and she told me my grand-aunt Catherine had passed away early Saturday morning. She'd had Alzheimer's for many years, and lived in the same facility that my Aunt Evelyn's husband's father was in, before he passed away a year or so ago. I visited Catherine back in 1988, my first trip back to the area as an adult. (The obituary has her name misspelled with a K; the correct spelling begins with a C).
Now, Aunt Laura (grand-aunt) is the last living of 9 original children (one died as an infant). Yes, I have visited Laura each time I've gone back to the area, and have shared some genealogical information with her, as she is interested in hearing about some of the things. She helped me acquire the World War I military records of her brother, my grand-uncle John Wesley "Fess" Carter, since she was next-of-kin and I needed her signature to get the records. I've not really interviewed her in the professional sense, and unfortunately haven't recorded stories or things of that nature. But back when I first began genealogy in the 1970's, I wrote to her several times and she gave me a lot of the beginning info when I started creating a family tree on the wall of the basement den of our house at the time.
One interesting thing about Aunt Laura and her husband, Uncle Johnie--they were both born on the exact same day in the same year! They're both now 88 years old. -- John
------------------------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 03:47:51 EDT From: AquaBetty@Subject: Re: RE: James E. H. "Porter" Durham, Margaret Durham, Hugh/Hewi...
Hi John,
Thanks for all the digging with Debbie on Hugh's family.In case you have not seen the obit, below is one that Lorraine found on-line.Have you interviewed Laura Ennis Carter Pierce?
Subj: katherine Carter CuffDate: 99-10-11 20:45:29 EDTFrom: LFREIDA 15To: AquaBetty
Betty and Ray:
Bridgeton Evening News Oct 11, 1999
Katherine Cuff
Homemaker
Katherine Cuff, 90, of Bridgeton died Saturday in Cumberland Manor, Hopewell Township. Born in Lipsic, Del.,daughter of the late Hopewell and Sarah Ridgeway Carter, she was the wife of the late Romaine Cuff.
Surviving are a daughter Barbara C. Coursey of Bridgeton: a sister, LauraPierce of Monroeville, a granddaughter, and a great- grandson.
Services will be held at 1p.m. Thursday in the Edward's and Son Funeral Home, 208 E. Commerce Street, Bridgeton, where friends may call after 11a.m. burial will be in Gouldtown Memorial Park, Fairfield Township.
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Enos Pierce JR or SR ?????Date: 99-10-13 17:51:25 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
First, on Oct 5th, Ed Bush wrote:
>> I received information from Lishia that Kate Durham,>> daughter of Warner/Walter Durham, may have>> married Enos Pierce, Sr. and < snip >>> Their children are: < snip >, Enos Jr. (Little Gray>> Squirrel), < snip >.......
Then, also on Oct 5th, Ray & Betty Terry wrote:
>> Ed,>> Tina Fragoso disagrees with the parentage of Kate>> Durham. She says-->> Date: 99-03-16>> From: Tpfragoso>> My grandfather Lewis Pierce's parents were Enos>> Pierce, Jr b. 1876 and Kattie Durham b. 1887
Then, on Oct 11th, Lishia wrote:
>> Hi everyone, this is a partial family tree of my cousin>> Alfred Pierce Jr.It begins with: >> Hugh+Angelica Durham Enoch+Julia Murray Pierce>> Kate Durham married Enos Pierce (Sr.)
OK, so my question is: Did Kate marry Enos Pierce SENIOR or JUNIOR ????? The above messages disagree.... Thanks, John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Aunt Sarah DurhamDate: 99-10-15 00:53:46 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
On September 1st, TheoLouise wrote (in response to an exchange between Joseph and myself):
>> Hello, Joseph My name is TheoLouise. My ggrandfather Levi H Mosley was married to Lizzie Pritchett >>Mosley. Lizzie's mother was Maggie Carney Pritchett. Do you know how your James Perry Carney is>> related to Maggie. Also, do you know a Sarah Durham of 1940's. My grandmother, Annie Mosley Cooper >>had an Aunt Sarah Durham listed on her obituary in 1946.
Then, also on September 1st, Joseph wrote:
>> I have not undertaken a study of the Carney families to know how James P might relate to Maggie. Perhaps>> John Carter can comment on this.
Then, on September 4th, I wrote:
>> (TheoLouise, James Perry Carney was in my family line, not Joseph's. You probably got mixed up>> because he and I were discussing the line back and forth). >> < snip > I can't comment on the "Aunt Sarah >>Durham," because I am unclear on some of your other connections. Which brings me to a few questions...."
Then, also on September 4th, Betty & Ray wrote:
>> We do not have an obituary for Sarah Durham, nor can we find a Sarah who married a Durham and who is >>sister to Annie Mosley Cooper's parents, Levi H. and Sarah Elizabeth (Pritchett) Mosley, nor to the parents of >>her first husband, Nathan Louis Coker. We don't know the parents of Oliver Cooper. Sarah Durham could >>be the sister of one of them.
Then, on October 6th, Rose wrote:
>> The other children [of Hewitt/Hugh Durham] as I know them are: William Durham md. Sarah Pritchett
Then, on October 7th, Joseph wrote:
>> TheoLouise,>> The recent posting from Rose Marie Ridgeway indicates that William Durham, son of Hugh Durham, was >>married to Sarah Pritchett. With the Pritchett connection confirmed, I think it is very likely that she is the >>Aunt Sarah Durham mentioned in the funeral notice of your grandmother.
Then, also on October 7th, TheoLouise wrote:
>> Joseph Thanks, I agree. Theo
-----
Now, my (John) comments: Joseph, if I understand the above comment correctly, you are proposing that Sarah Pritchett Durham, wife of William Durham was a sister to Anna Mosley Coker Cooper's mother, who was "Lizzie" Pritchett Mosley. You're stating this would explain the "Aunt Sarah Durham" mentioned in Anna Mosley Coker Cooper's obituary. However, my records indicate that Anna's mother's FULL name was Sarah Elizabeth "Lizzie" Pritchett (based on message sent to me by Rose Marie Ridgeway on September 9th) (See also Betty & Ray's Sept 4th message above, which also gives Lizzie's first name as Sarah). Would there be TWO daughters (who outlived infancy) named Sarah in the same family?? Thanks, John P.S. By the way, Theo, which of Oliver Cooper Sr. & Anna Mosley Coker Cooper's eight children was your parent? (So I can add you to my tree). Thanks.
John C. Carter
Subj: [Mitsawokett] CoopersDate: 99-10-17 14:15:55 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
HI, Theo Louise. On October 16th, you mentioned:
>> My Granddad Oliver Cooper Sr and Grandmom>> Annie Mariah Mosley had:>>>> Louise(Ease)Annie Cooper 1920>> married Ulysess Hickman>> Dorothy Cooper March 9, 1921>> married Harry Driggus>> Charles(Coop) Edward Oct 23,1922>> married Dorothy Brady>> Alden(Piggy) Bradford>> never married>> Oliver(Babe) Cooper Jr Jan 5, 1927>> married Juanita Payne>> Elizabeth(Libby) Cooper Lewis Tribbett>> Feb 7, 1928>> married Thomas Lewis>> Benjamin(Benny)Cooper>> never married>> Mary Cooper Bell
Was there also a daughter Sarah? Her name is listed as a child on the Mitsawokett web site, "Descendants of Purnell Mosley & Rebecca Miller." Also, was Alden (Piggy) male or female? The reason I ask is because on the Mitsawokett site, it has their name as "Aldea," which sounds female. But "Alden" sounds male to me. Also, I assume Tribbett is the 2nd-marriage name for Elizabeth (Libby)...?
Thanks! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Sarah E. "Lizzie" Pritchett MosleyDate: 99-10-17 14:16:08 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
On October 16th, Joseph wrote:
>> After reviewing the group postings as well as the>> genealogies on the Mitsawokett site, I am more>> confused than ever. If I understand the generations,>> we start with>>>> 1. Charles Pritchett, b. ca. 1862, m. 1889 to>> Margaret "Maggie" Carney;>> their daughter is allegedly:>>>> 2. Sarah E. "Lizzie" Pritchett, m. Levi H Mosley;>> he died in 1912, age 42 (b. ca. 1870) (Mitsawokett>> cemetery listings); their daughter was:>>>> 3. Anna Mosley, d 1946, age not posted (memo>> from Theo); she married, first, Coker, second,>> Cooper; the Cooper children were:>>>> 4. Born beginning in 1920 (latest memo from Theo).>>>> It doesn't seem that there is enough time between the>> marriage in 1889 and the births starting in 1920 for>> two intervening generations (although not impossible).>> We need additional dates and documentation to make>> sense of this.
Hi, Joseph & all. Yes, I agree. Something appears to be not correct here. Even if Sarah E. "Lizzie" Pritchett was born immediately after the 02 Dec 1889 marriage--say, in 1890, then she would have been 20 years younger than her husband Levi H. Mosley, b. ca. 1870. Then, her daughter Anna would be marrying a man approx. the same age (four years younger) as Lizzie! (Nathan Louis Coker, b. 05 Dec 1894). TheoLouise, Lorraine, Ray/Betty, etc: Does anyone have any ideas/thoughts on this?? Thanks, John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] CoopersDate: 99-10-17 14:15:55 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
HI, Theo Louise. On October 16th, you mentioned:
>> My Granddad Oliver Cooper Sr and Grandmom>> Annie Mariah Mosley had:>>>> Louise(Ease)Annie Cooper 1920>> married Ulysess Hickman>> Dorothy Cooper March 9, 1921>> married Harry Driggus>> Charles(Coop) Edward Oct 23,1922>> married Dorothy Brady>> Alden(Piggy) Bradford>> never married>> Oliver(Babe) Cooper Jr Jan 5, 1927>> married Juanita Payne>> Elizabeth(Libby) Cooper Lewis Tribbett>> Feb 7, 1928>> married Thomas Lewis>> Benjamin(Benny)Cooper>> never married>> Mary Cooper Bell
Was there also a daughter Sarah? Her name is listed as a child on the Mitsawokett web site, "Descendants of Purnell Mosley & Rebecca Miller." Also, was Alden (Piggy) male or female? The reason I ask is because on the Mitsawokett site, it has their name as "Aldea," which sounds female. But "Alden" sounds male to me. Also, I assume Tribbett is the 2nd-marriage name for Elizabeth (Libby)...?
Thanks! John
Subj: FW: Catherine / Katherine Carter CuffDate: 99-10-18 20:24:32 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi. Just a note to let you know that I found out my grand-aunt C/Katherine Carter Cuff actually changed the spelling of her name from Catherine to Katherine around the time of her first marriage. See message from my Aunt Evelyn below. Thanks, (Sorry for any confusion). John
-----Original Message-----From: Ses2@ [SMTP:Ses2@]Sent: Monday, October 18, 1999 7:13 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Hello
Hi John,
As to Aunt Katherine's spelling of her name.....she changed it to a "K" inthe early "50s". Her daughter mentions that she doesn't know why her motherdid this. Says that she remembers her mother doing this around the time ofher marriage...which was in 1953. So, everyone knows her as Katherine with aK. Evidently the records show this...the obituary as well. So, whoeverwrote a K, they are not entirely wrong.
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Sarah E. "Lizzie" Pritchett MosleyDate: 99-10-18 19:41:27 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hi, Lorraine. Thanks for your message.
Regarding this part:
>> 1900 Census, Duck Creek 100, DE, Kent County>> Mosley,Levi Head b Jan 1866, age 34 m 10 years,>> b in DE>> Lizzie B wife b Aug 1873, age 26 mother of 3,>> 3 living b in MD>> Lena dau, b Nov 1890, age 9 b in DE>> Annie dau, b Aug 1898, age 6 b in DE>> Mary dau, b Aug 1898, age 1 b in De>> Pritchett, Annie B, s in l, b Jan 1886, age 14, b in MD
...it looks like you might have transcribed the wrong birthdate for Annie. If Annie was age 6 and Mary was age 1, they can't both be born in Aug 1898.
Regarding this part:
>> 1880 Census Kent County De>> Thomas Carney age 29 all b in De>> Susan age 25 nee Muntz>> Arthalinda age 7>> Maggie age 6>> Lilly age 5>> Earnest age 1 (William Earnest)
...I had the four oldest children as having the same names except I had Adeline/Madeline instead of Anthalinda. Do you think they are the same person? I think I got the Adeline/Madeline name from a message you posted here to Mitsawokett on 12 Mar 1999, as well as a message from you to me dated 22 Oct 1998 which shows she married James Loatman on 22 Jan 1890.
Regarding this:
>> 1990 census, Kent County, East Dover>> Carney, John head, b April 1861, age 39>> m 17 years all b in De>> Sallie wife, b Jan 1867, age 33>> mother of 3, 1 living>> Pritchett,Maggie boarder, b Feb 1874, age 26,>> M 8 years, mother of 6, 5 living>> Nettie b Nov 1893, age 6>> (correct name Arnetta)>> Charles E b Feb 1899, age 1
...(I think you meant 1900 census). So, since Sallie is "mother of 3, 1 living," who is her child?? Do Nettie and Charles E belong to Maggie Pritchett? In my file I show John & Sallie as having had a daughter "Etta" who married a Miller. (From a message from you to me dated 12 Apr 1998). Is this Etta the same as Nettie/Arnetta?
Anyway-- In summation-- Therefore, I will detach Sarah Elizabeth "Lizzie" Pritchett (wife of Levi H. Mosley) as being a child of Charles Edward Pritchett and Maggie Carney. I also showed Charles & Maggie as having a son Howard "Pop" Pritchett, husband of Alberta Ridgeway. I assume this is the same Howard showing in George Durham's household in 1900 as an adopted son. How do we know that Howard was really the son of Charles and Maggie? Also, their son Roy Pritchett that you mentioned--is this the same as the Roy Pritchett who married Gladys Reed (01 Oct 1906-10 Aug 1995)?
Thanks! John
Subj: RE: Mitsawokett Questions / Catch-up #1Date: 99-10-17 21:20:24 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Wow, look how prompt I'm responding to this message, huh?? (Decided to start working on some of the OLDEST items in my Inbox (about 85 total) instead of the NEWEST ones for a change). Anyway, a few comments/questions:
1. In the BIRTHS section, you have Rheba M Carter's (Rheba Dean Mosley Carter) birthdate as 10 Mar 1903 (also in the 2nd Bible's records, below), but on the Mitsawokett site you have 10 Mar 1904.
2. Also in the BIRTHS section, there is "C. Kevin Webster, 7 Oct 1971, (Susie's son grandsons) (Eloise Susie--BDT)." Not sure who this is, since I don't know who Susie is. (Not sure what "BDT" means either). Wait--I see that "Susie" is a nickname for Rheba Eloise Webster, but I show her with one son Kevin Calvin Pierce. How can she have a grandson named Webster? Also, how could she have a grandson--or as your note says, her SON'S grandson--born in 1971, if she herself was only born in 1951? --Just noticed that it has "Kevin Calvin" for the 2nd Bible's records.... Just want to verify that he was born in 1971 but his parents weren't married until 21 Jun 1980...?
3. In the BIRTHS section, you have ZachAry Calvin Carter, but on Mitsawokett you have ZachEry. Just thought I would let you know.
4. In the BIRTHS section, you have GAIL YVETTE Carter, but on Mitsawokett you have YONNE [sic] GAIL. And, later in your message, you answered my previous question as to the spelling (when I thought "Yonne" should be "Yvonne").... Confused here....(me) >> I notice you have one of the daughters of George Calvin Carter and Betty >> Ann Grigsby spelled as "Yonne." Should this be "Yvonne"? Just curious....(you) >> Yonne is correct! No vee.
5. In the DEATHS section, you have Rheba Dean [Mosley] Carter's death date as 25 Feb 1938, (also in the 2nd Bible's records), but on Mitsawokett you have 15 Apr 1938.
6. You may have already noticed that there are two death dates below for Russell Webster--one from one Bible says 26 Jul 1971 and the other Bible says 27 Jul 1971.
7. In the Bible records from the 2nd Bible, below, you have Annie E. Dean Mosley's death date as 27 JUL 1963, but on Mitsawokett you have 27 JUN 1963.
8. In the 2nd Bible's records, there are these children: >> Rufus Dean Cuff 12 Feb 1987 >> Joshua Loatman ? Do you know who they are?
9. In the 2nd Bible's records, these are also listed: >> Greatgrandchildren: >> Jerry Ephraim Loatman III 7 Sep 1983 >> Casey (Elizabeth Cuff) 2 Apr 1994 >> Devon K. (Carper) 7 May 1994 >> J(ames Edward) Adkins Sep 1994 ...I assume Jerry III is a son of Melody Lynn Pierce and Jerry Loatman. Also, I assume James is a son of the James Edward Adkins who was born 20 Feb 1975. Do you know who the other two are?
10. Again, in the 2nd Bible's records, there is this record in the "Marriages" section: >> Joel (Webster) & Charlene 22 Jun 1991 ...I assume this is a son of the Joel (Clayton) Webster who was born 02 Nov 1946...?
11. Also in the 2nd Bible, under "Deaths", not sure who these are: >> Retta Webster 19 Aug 1953 aunt >> Earl Webster ? uncle ...siblings of Elmer, perhaps?
12. And, last but not least, did you ever come across any new info for this?:
(I previously wrote):>> Under Joel Clayton Webster, Sr (son of Ida Carter>> Webster), you have him listed as having 2 wives, and>> then 3 children. Are these 3 children all from the 2nd>> wife? And why does the 3rd child have the last name>> of Fiester instead of Webster?
(Then you wrote):>> That is something we will have to ask Ida. Most of Ida's>> family gathered around a table with us to swap family>> info. No one had records. Joel's memory was not too>> good. Maybe there was some hanky panky he did not>> want to talk about--but that is pure speculation.
OK, whew!!! Now, this is a lot of questions, so if you'd like to wait until January 1, 2000 to answer, that's fine! :-) (See dates of previous messages). Thanks, and have a nice evening, John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Friday, January 01, 1999 3:04 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Catch-up #1
We have a foot-high stack of papers to work on. We've gone after yourquestions many times and never got to them (they wound up at the bottomsomehow.)
Your e-mail of 10/5/98:
"I was going through some of the information on the Mitsawokett websitetoday, and found some wonderful data on some individuals I hadn't expected tosee there: some Carter descendants who married into a branch near your line,through Annie Dean Mosley's daughter Rheba.
I had a couple of questions I thought I might ask:
1. Do you know the parents of Rheba's husband George Elwood "Dick" Carter?I suspect he is descended from one of the brothers of my great-great-grandmother Elizabeth Carty/Carter, possibly her brother George ThomasCarty/Carter.
We a Bible and a death certificate which refer to Dick's parents. Read on,you'll eventurally get to it.........
George Elwood "Dick" Carter's daughter Ida Carter Webster dragged out thefamily Bible when we spent the night with her last year. It had the followingentries:
Bible "Presented to Rheba M. Carter by Geo. E. Carter," no date in Bible.Copied 5 Sep 1997 at Ida Carter Webster's home, Fairton, N.J. by Betty Terry.
George Elwood Carter and Rheba Dean Mosley married at Smyrna, Delaware on the22nd day of July in the year of our Lord 1922 in the presence of AlvaPritchett and Willie Morris. Signed Rev. Gillis, Smyrna, Del.
MARRIAGES
Ida Rheba Carter and Elmer Webster 24 Dec 1941G. Calvin and Betty Ann Grigsby 26 Feb 1947Bertha Elizabeth Webster and Alvin Pierce 13 May 1961Elwood Phillip Webster and Emma Pritchett 25 Sep 1966Joel C. Webster and Marian Mercer 1 Feb 1969Russell and Bertha Webster 21 Oct 1907Estella Mae and Robert Adkins 23 Nov 1976Rheba Eloise Webster and Calvin Pierce 21 Jun 1980Ida Billye Pierce to Deano Cuff 8 Jul 1987Melody Lynn Pierce to Jerry Loatman Sep 1982
BIRTHS
Ida Rheba Carter 1 Nov 1923George Calvin Carter 8 Dec 1927Rheba M. Carter 10 Mar 1903George E. Carter 12 Jun 1900Bertha Elizabeth Webster 2 Jul 1942Elwood Phillip Webster 9 Nov 1943Joel Clayton Webster 2 Nov 1946Charles Milton Webster 22 Aug 1948Rheba Eloise Webster 13 Nov 1951Estella Mae Webster 22 Jan 1959C. Kevin Webster 7 Oct 1971 (Susie's son grandsons) (EloiseSusie--BDT)Loretta Rheba Carter 1 Aug 1947 (Calvin's daughter--BDT)Zachary Calvin Carter 8 Nov 1951 (Calvin's son--BDT)Gail Yvette Carter 27 Jul 1955Betty Ann Grigsby 29 Dec 1929
DEATHS
Rheba Dean Carter 25 Feb 1938 (Ida's mother--BDT)Bertha Webster 30 Jan 1959 (Elmer's mother--BDT)George Elwood Carter 17 Feb 1971 (Ida's father--BDT)Russell Webster 26 Jul 1971 (Elmer's father--BDT)
IN ADDITION, a second Bible:
Bible of Ida Rheba Carter Webster
Copied 9/5/97 at Ida's home, 37 Lummis Mill Rd.., Fairton, NJEvents not contemporaneously entered.Parenthetical notes added by RJ Terry.
Elmer Webster of Fairton, N.J. (born 19 Sep 1919, Fairton) married Ida RhebaCarter of Cheswold, Del. at Gouldtown Parsonage on 24th Dec 1941. Witnesses:Anna Mac Gould and Nelson Streets. Signed Rev. George A. Mitchell.
PARENTS
Russell Webster 4 Jun 1885 - 27 Jul 1971 Father Married Gouldtown, N.J. 21 Oct 1907Bertha Mae Cuff 22 Jan 1884 - 30 Jan 1959 Mother
Burial place of Russell and Bertha -- Gouldtown Cemetery, Gouldtown, N.J.
GRANDPARENTS
1. George (William) Carter (grandfather)2. Sally Carney (grandmother)
(Libby Webster Pierce says: see Delaware's Forgotten Folks." GeorgeWilliam Carter's father was George William Carter, chief of Tanapeke(?)Indians. She verified this at Georgetown, Del on route 113, 1 hour belowDover. Sally Carney Carter also Indian, records at Georgetown, Del. Also atNanticoke Indian Museum, Millsboro, Del., at intersection of Rt 24 and Rt 5.)
3. Charles Mosley4. Annie E. Mosley (Dean) 30 Jan 1870 - 27 Jul 1963
PARENTS
George Elwood Carter married 22 Jul 1922, Smyrna, Del, Rheba Mosley12 Jun 1900 - 17 Feb 1971 10 Mar 1903 - 25 Feb 1938buried Cheswold, Del buried Cheswold, Del
BIRTHS
Bertha Elizabeth (Webster) 2 Jul 1942Elwood Phillip (Webster) 9 Nov 1943Joel Clayton (Webster) 2 Nov 1946Charles Milton (Webster) 22 Aug 1948Rheba Eloise (Webster) 13 Nov 1951Estella Mae (Webster) 22 Jan 1959
Grandchildren:
Ida Billye Pierce 22 Feb 1962Melody Lynn (Pierce) 4 Nov 1963?Kevin Calvin (Pierce) 7 Oct 1971Joann Webster 2 Apr 1966Elmer Russell Webster 27 Jan 1971Joel Clayton Webster 4 May 1971Wm Herbert Webster 24 Jul 1974James Edward Adkins 20 Feb 1975Robert Eugene Adkins Jr 27 Nov 1977Rufus Dean Cuff 12 Feb 1987Joshua Loatman ?
Greatgrandchildren:
Jerry Ephraim Loatman III 7 Sep 1983Casey (Elizabeth Cuff) 2 Apr 1994Devon K. (Carper) 7 May 1994J(ames Edward) Adkins Sep 1994
MARRIAGES
Libby (Bertha E. Webster) & Alvin Pierce 13 May 1961Phillip (Webster) & Emma Pritchett 25 Sep 1966Joel & Marian Mercer Webster 1 Feb 1969Estella Mae (Webster) & Robert Adkins 23 Nov 1976Susie (Webster) & Butch Pierce 21 Jun 1980Melody (Pierce) & Jerry Loatman Sep 1982Billye (Pierce) & Deano Cuff 8 Jul 1987Joel (Webster) & Charlene 22 Jun 1991
DEATHS Rheba M. Mosley Carter 25 Feb 1938Bertha M. Webster 30 Jan 1959George E. Carter 17 Feb 1971Russell Webster 27 Jul 1971Eloise Carter Oct 1993 stepmotherElmer Webster 11 Nov 1993Retta Webster 19 Aug 1953 auntEarl Webster ? uncle
(MILITARY) SERVICE
Elwood Phillip Webster, Air Force, Lackland, Texas.
Joel Clayton Webster 24 Aug 1964 - 31 Aug 1968 Navy, Great Lakes. Joel washurt 28 Jan 1968 in the service, USS Ranger off Viet Nam. (5 daysunconscious, 8 mos in the hospital. He received a medical discharge.
Charles Milton Webster, Navy Seabees.
DEATH CERTIFICATE OF GEORGE ELWOOD CARTERcert #518 State of Delaware, New Castle local reg #W-527, 17 Feb 1971Father GEORGE W. CARTER Mother SALLY CARBET CARTER
It says the informant was "Family." Where Carbet comes from no one knows. Ida's Bible says Dick's mother was Sally CARNEY. Dick died when he was married to Eloise Hughes. We sensed a lack of harmony between the family and Eloise. Perhaps she was the "Family" and did not know correctly Dick's mother's name.
In old records we got from Wilson and Grace Davis there is a GEORGE TAFT CARTER mentioned who married LINA MOSLEY, both of MD, then DE. We can't find a George Taft in the records, only George Thomas.
Calvin Carter of Dover told us about a medicine man who live near him 40 years ago by the name of TAFT CARTER. We figured perhaps he was descended from a George Taft Carter but have not delved into this yet.
We went to MD Hall of Records in Annapolis last month and did not find death records for George or Lina.
2. I notice you have one of the daughters of George Calvin Carter and Betty Ann Grigsby spelled as "Yonne." Should this be "Yvonne"? Just curious....
Yonne is correct! No vee.
3. Do you know the Ridgeway ancestry (parents, grandparents) of Gary Wayne Ridgeway, Yonne's husband?
No. We did not inquire. You can contact Calvin Carter, 177 Rosebowl Road, Dover, DE 19901. Calvin and his wife Betty were friendly but not spontaneously forthcoming with info. Had to dig for what we got. Calvin and Betty Terry played together as kids.
4. Under Joel Clayton Webster, Sr (son of Ida Carter Webster), you have him listed as having 2 wives, and then 3 children. Are these 3 children all from the 2nd wife? And why does the 3rd child have the last name of Fiester instead of Webster?
That is something we will have to ask Ida. Most of Ida's family gathered around a table with us to swap family info. No one had records. Joel's memory was not too good. Maybe there was some hanky panky he did not want to talk about--but that is pure speculation.
That's all. The site is working very good. Thanks! John
-------------
We will continue with the back log. Thanks for all your work!! B&R
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Monday, October 05, 1998 4:27 PMTo: 'Terry, Betty & Ray (AquaBetty@)'Subject: Mitsawokett questions
Hi, Betty & Ray. I was going through some of the information on the Mitsawokett website today, and found some wonderful data on some individuals I hadn't expected to see there: some Carter descendants who married into a branch near your line, through Annie Dean Mosley's daughter Rheba.
I had a couple of questions I thought I might ask:
1. Do you know the parents of Rheba's husband George Elwood "Dick" Carter? I suspect he is descended from one of the brothers of my great-great-grandmother Elizabeth Carty/Carter, possibly her brother George Thomas Carty/Carter.
2. I notice you have one of the daughters of George Calvin Carter and Betty Ann Grigsby spelled as "Yonne." Should this be "Yvonne"? Just curious....
3. Do you know the Ridgeway ancestry (parents, grandparents) of Gary Wayne Ridgeway, Yonne's husband?
4. Under Joel Clayton Webster, Sr (son of Ida Carter Webster), you have him listed as having 2 wives, and then 3 children. Are these 3 children all from the 2nd wife? And why does the 3rd child have the last name of Fiester instead of Webster?
That's all. The site is working very good. Thanks! John<
Subj: RE: Additions and correctionsDate: 99-10-17 23:27:39 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: m.a.coker@worldnet. ('MAC')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Marian. I was just going back over some old e-mails, and had a couple of questions regarding your message attached below.
1. The three children that Rebecca Carney had before she married Alonzo Coker: Clarence, Norace, and Cecilia Carney. (You may remember that I previously had them listed under Rebecca and Alonzo, with the last name of Coker instead of Carney). Do you know who Rebecca's first husband was? I'm wondering if it was James Robert Carney, son of Robert Carney and Mary Elmira Cott. Because I show James Robert as having sons Norace and Clarence. In fact, this Norace's birthdate exactly matches the one you gave as Rebecca's son Norace. But I thought he/they was/were a son(s) of James Robert by his wife Effilinda "Effie" Reed. Was James Robert the first spouse of Rebecca? (In other words, he was the father of Clarence, Norace, and Cecilia??)
2. You listed Cecilia as having three children: "MacDonald T. Coker, Diane, Marvin Carney" Why is MacDonald's last name Coker and Marvin's last name Carney? What is Diane's last name? Who is their father?
3. You show Victorine Coker as marrying Nehemiah Durham, but my records show Jeremiah Durham. Can you verify? Do I have it spelled wrong?
4. For Walter Coker, Sr. you stated the following: "Walter Coker Sr. married Myrtle Morgan they had three children 1. Walter Coker Jr. married Linda Brittingham they had two children Brandon and Katie. 2. Randy Coker had two children by ? Jr. and Tony ( as soon as I get more on them I will send to you). then married Frances" ...my records agree that Walter Sr. had three children, and I only had the name of one of them, but I had that one's name as Ronald (b. 09 Dec 1964), and you don't have a Ronald listed. Could Ronald have been a middle name? Is Randy a nickname for Ronald?
Thanks, Marian, for your help, and I'm very sorry to have waited so long to ask these questions.Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! John
-----Original Message-----From: MAC [SMTP:m.a.coker@worldnet.]Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 10:26 AMTo: John C. CarterSubject: Additions and corrections
Hi John, Under Daniel Coker # 96 Eddie Coker his daughter #153 should be Michelle ( Shelly is a nickname) she married a Duke and has two children.
# 7 Alonzo Rebecca had three children before she married Alonzo 1. Clarence Carney 2. Norace Carney b. 2/18/1912 d. 3/3/1983 3. Cecilia Carney had three children MacDonald T. Coker, Diane, Marvin Carney
!. Carlton D. Coker Sr. married Anna E. Coker 2. Victorine Coker married Nehamiah Durham 6/12/---- they had two children 1. Edward Lee Durham 2/9/1949 and 2. Armenta Danelle Durham 4/17/50 married Calvin Eacho and had one child Krystel Nicole Eacho 7/2/1982. 3. Walter Coker Sr. married Myrtle Morgan they had three children 1. Walter Coker Jr. married Linda Brittingham they had two children Brandon and Katie. 2. Randy Coker had two children by ? Jr. and Tony ( as soon as I get more on them I will send to you). then married Frances
When will you be able to put these and the other ones I sent you on the family history web?? I know it takes time but I was just wondering.
Thank you,Marian
Subj: RE: Elisha Mosley's wives and misc questionsDate: 99-10-17 23:27:41 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Did you ever receive an answer from Sweetsie on your question below? I don't show any in my file from her during that time. Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 1:34 AMTo: rbright4@Cc: spiff@Subject: Elisha Mosley's wives and misc questions
Hi Sweetsie & John,
Ignore the following request. We found the info further down in our dearlittle stack of unfinished business:
880 Federal Census, Roll , page (Nat'l Archives, Wash, DC): East Dover Hundred, Kent, Delaware.
sex age MOSELY, Purnell m 34 Eliza f 33 John m 8 ALL B DEL Lydia A. f 7 Sarah L. f 5 Charlotte f 4 Levi m 1 Purnell Mosley m Eliza Johnson. Again, ancestor of Lib Durham & Grace Kemp.
Do you have the spouses for Sarah Liz, Emma, Thomas Burton, Alfred P.,Rebecca (last 4 not yet born in 1880)? IGNORE
--------------
NOW, UN-IGNORE THE REST:
Sweetsie, please clear up a conflict in names for us. The messages you sent5/13 and 9/23 report two different 1st wives for Elisha Mosley. Which iscorrect?
Date: 98-05-13 00:26:09 EDTFrom: rbright4@ (Rose Marie Ridgeway)To: AquaBetty@
3. Elisha Mosley md. (his school teacher first) #1. Emma Durham - b. 1894 - d. 1933 (NoChildren) #2 . Dorothy Miller - b. Feb 22, 1919 - d.Feb 1982 De. (4 children) Children: Levi "Buster" Mosley Elisha "Lash" Mosley,Jr. Yvonne Mosley Elsie Mosley
----------------
From: rbright4To: lrainbow1@Subject: Re: Genealogy RecordsDate: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 00:56:07 +0000
4. Elisha Mosley md. #1. School Teacher/ Dunning #2.Dorothy Miller
----------
Lib Durham of Dover told us that Charlotte Mosley, dau of Purnell and Eliza,married Charles Johnson from Philadelphia. He worked as a waiter.
---------
Lib Durham also told us that her father, Wingate Burton Mosley, married 1)ClaraFrances Jackson and 2) Ethel Mosley. You show him marrying Nancy Kimmey. Webelieve this is incorrect. Please check.
----------
You show Purnell & Eliza's daughter Rebecca marrying Henry Durham. Is thisthe son of Hewitt and Angelica Songo Durham?
----------
We are also in the dark about Sylvester Jack/Ridgway and Tillman Jack/Ridgway.Have not see Jack used before. What do you make of it? John mentionedSylvester's 3 marriages and 11 children. Would you spell this out for usplease?
B&R
Subj: DavisDate: 99-10-27 06:54:15 EDTFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hello. Not sure where Betty's Davis lines originate, but did you see the recent Davis postings on the Lower DelMarVa list? If not, I can forward them to you. Thanks, (Still way behind with e-mail). John> My lineage is:>> father - Percell K. Street Sr.>> mother - Olga Holmes(non-nanticoke)>> paternal grandfather - William E. Street>> paternal grandmother - Bertha Sockum>> paternal ggrandfather - David R. Street>> paternal ggrandmother - Lydia F. Wright>> Paternal gggrandfather - David P. Street>> Paternal gggrandmother - Anna Harmon
...However, on the Mitsawokett site, under "Descendants of Purnell Mosley & Rebecca Miller," at the entry for Bertha Sockum's marriage to William E. Street, it states that William's mother was Lydia ANN Wright, instead of Lydia F. Wright as above.
Sterling / Ray / Betty: Do we which is correct?
Thanks! John
Subj: RE: Family HistoryDate: 01/02/2000 10:49:33 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: linda@ ('Linda Harmon')CC: RWahoor@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Linda. Thanks for the information. My records still differ from yours. I have Alfred & Sarah's marriage as 1/18/1860, not 1/29/1860. This is per Alfred's military records, which I will send you a copy of. Also, his death was 8/25/1883, not 1885. This is per the military records, also. The year is also proven by the fact that Sarah applied for a widow's pension in December, 1883, so he had to be deceased by then. And he did NOT marry Sarah Coker Jack. He married his second cousin Sarah Ridgeway (aka Sarah Jack). She was not a Coker at this time. AFTER he died, then Sarah re-married to Daniel Coker. So she was not a Coker until AFTER Alfred passed away. You also have children from each marriage mixed together. The children Alonzo and Willie were from the SECOND marriage, so their names were not Ridgeway.
The children from the first marriage (Alfred and Sarah) were:
Melinda Ridgway Walter Proctor Ridgeway, Sr. Wilhemina Ridgway Rose Ella Ridgway Ann Elizabeth Ridgway Susan Ridgway Estella Ridgway Sadie Bell Ridgway
The children from the second marriage (Daniel and Sarah) were:
Alfred Wilbank ("Willie"?) Ridgeway Coker (named after Sarah's first husband) Alonzo Coker This is all substantiated in the military and pension records of Alfred and Daniel, and I will be sending you copies of these.
I have never heard of the children Charles and Matilda. If they were Ridgeways, I suppose they could have been born earlier than the Ridgeway children listed above, since Alfred and Sarah were married in 1860, but the oldest of the children above (Melinda) was born ca. 1867. Subtracting the years that he was away during the Civil War (1863-65), there was still presumably time enough to have a couple of children or so. Then they might have been old enough to not be listed in the (later) pension documents, since they would no longer be minors at the time. If they were Cokers, then they could perhaps have been children of Daniel and his first wife, Hester. I doubt very much they would have been Daniel & Sarah's children, since all of Daniel's pension paperwork lists only the two children, Alonzo and Alfred Wilbank ("Willie"?). And there was not enough time for them to have been grown up by then, since Daniel & Sarah were married in 1885. (By the way, that's another reason that Sarah's first husband couldn't have died in August 1885, because Sarah was married to her second husband Daniel on 17 Mar 1885.
Anyway, I hope this helps. I'm going to have a couple copies of photos made for you, and once they're done I will send them along with copies of the military/pension records, so you can see the evidence for the material I've listed above. Let me know if you have any questions or comments. Thanks! John P.S. Thanks very much for the obituary of your cousin. (I assume the date was supposed to be 12/29--you had 2/29. But since you said "this week" I knew you meant 12/29). I'm very sorry to hear of his passing.
John C. Carter
Ridgeway, Wyatt
-----Original Message-----From: Linda Harmon [SMTP:linda@]Sent: Friday, December 31, 1999 6:01 PMTo: John C. CarterSubject: Family History
John,
Hello, here are the answer's I have to a few questions you had.
I have Sally A. Hanser b.12/10/1823 d.11/11/1905
Alfred Ridgeway b. 1838 Sussex Co., De. d.8/25/1885 De.md. 1/29/1860 to Sarah Coker Jack b.4/15/1845 De. d.4/22/1919 De.their children: Walter Proctor Ridgeway b.9/23/1867 d.7/2Charles, Alonzo, Willie, Sadie, Matilda.
Also, this week my cousin passed away.
Lloyd Durham, Sr. b.1/28/1928 d.2/29/1999md. 2/2/1946 to Mary Coombs daughter of Alfred C. Coombs, Sr. and Edna Dean
Lloyd 71, of Bridgeton died Wednesday in Thomas Jefferson Hospital, Philadelphia.Born in Dover, De. son the late Enoch and Cora Carney Durham, he was raised byMr. & Mrs. Robert Corney from infancy. Father died one month before he was born.Married to Mary for 53 years. He was employed as a construction worker for Bechtel Corporation and was a member of the Jubilee Community Church in Quinton. Surviving are a son Lloyd, Jr. and daughter Darlene Edna Williams, twobrothers Smith of Port Charlotte, Florida, and Reynolds of Millville, five grandchildren: Roland, Jr., Christopher, Rochelle, Brian, Dyawne, and one greatgranddaughter Shanya Durham.Predeceased by a twin, Floyd, and brother Elmerand Enoch, Jr., and a sister Lola Mae Holmes.Services are at Sray Funeral Home 62 Landis Avenue, Bridgeton, viewing at 10AMBurial at Fernwood Cemetery in Hopewell Township, Bridgeton. Contributions sentto Jubilee Community Church, Gravelly Hill Road, Quinton, NJ 08072 or to HospiceCare of South Jersey, 2849 S. Delsea Drive, Vineland, NJ 08360
Talk to you soon,Linda
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: Streets / Mosley / Johnson / HarmonDate: 01/03/2000 8:23:30 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hi, Sterling & all. Thanks again for the info. Now I have a question pertaining to Mosley / Johnson / Harmon (but connected to the Streets).... Do you know the parents of the Mary Elizabeth Mosley who was married to Howard D. Street? Or the parents of Matilda Johnson or Anna Harmon (the wives of David P. Street)? Your help is much appreciated! John P.S. a Virgie Street married my grandfather's first cousin Andrew Ridgway (b. 1900). Do you happen to know her parents and/or connection to the other Streets?
Subj: Missing Mitsawokett #306Date: 01/05/2000 6:53:38 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Do you still have Mitsawokett digest #306 (1/04/00) in your computer? If so, could you please forward a copy to me? I seem to have somehow deleted mine..... Thanks! John
Subj: Re: Missing Mitsawokett #306Date: 01/05/2000 7:34:16 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 01/05/2000 6:53:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, spiff@ writes:
>
John, we don't get the digest version. But we checked the OneList site and after poking around a bit, found all the digests available to you.
Go to
On the Main Page (Main Page highlighted in violet on the left), click on "Index" under latest messages -- this brings up the old digests to view.
You can also look further down the page and click on "members" to see who is subsribing.
Good luck!-------------------------------------------
Aquabetty@
Betty & Ray Terry 11505 Montgomery Rd. Beltsville, MD 20705301-937-1766
Subj: RE: Children of Sarah Jack/R. & Alfred RidgewayDate: 01/06/2000 7:44:04 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Thanks for your message.
As I mentioned to Linda Harmon, I've not heard of any additional children, but am intrigued! It's interesting that you and Linda (who received her info from Rose Ridgeway) both show a child named Charles. I'm assuming their last name is Ridgeway and not Coker (judging by the dates you gave)? But, Linda had an additional child Matilda, and you have additional children Elizabeth and George. At the time of the first pension document filed by Sarah on 15 Dec 1883, these three children would have been 23, 22, & 19, respectively, therefore it is certainly possible they were children of Sarah and Alfred and already out on their own. The documents Sarah had to fill out when applying for a pension only list minor children who were dependent upon her (and later, her 2nd husband, Daniel, until his death in 1898). Do you have any further information on Charles, Elizabeth, & George? (Spouses? Children? Dates of death?) Hope this helps. (Let me know if you'd like copies of the pension documents, and I'd be happy to send them). Thanks, John
Subj: Re: Children of Sarah Jack/R. & Alfred RidgewayDate: 01/06/2000 11:01:21 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
File: Birth--Lulu.tif (1053978 bytes)DL Time (50000 bps): < 6 minutes
Corrected "Churchl" -- thanks!
>
-----------
Have found our source for the above --- a "forward lineage chart" by Sarah Seeney Sullivan, seen at her home near Dover, 2/12/99.
Sarah is the source of the following --
"Interview with Sarah Seeney Sullivan at her home at Cheswold, DE 2/12/99. Sarah's grandmother, Lola Ridgeway, had difficulty understanding George. His English was not good, but he could easily converse with Nora Morgan's mother who spoke fluent Algonquin. Called him "Chief of Nine Bridges""
---------
You and Lynn doubted the accuracy of the statement as it seemed to be rather late for anyone to be speaking fluent Algonquin.
It is interesting that today Lishia Durham Heard e-mailed us a copy of the delayed birth cert. for Lulu Durham, dau of Robert J. Durham and Elizabeth Carney. Both Robert and Elizabeth are described as being Nanticoke Indians. Are we really sure that the last speakers of the language died in the middle 1800's?
Attached is the birth cert. Annie E. Mosley is Betty's great-grandmother. Lulu married Annie's son, Geoffrey (Garfield) Mosley.
Subj: Re: Children of Sarah Jack/R. & Alfred RidgewayDate: 01/06/2000 11:13:19 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 01/06/2000 7:44:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, spiff@ writes:
>
Getting dotty here -- sending e-mails before completing them (2nd tonite). No further info on Elizabeth and George.
Acc/to Sarah Seeney Sullivan's chart, Charles H. Ridgeway married Emily Miller, had children Letisha, Alfred, Mazzie, Rebecca.
Letisha married Oscar P. Sammons, then lived with Odis Sammons without divorcing Oscar. Our notes --
Letisha T. "Lettie" Sammons
1. Obituary: Letisha T. "Lettie" Sammons, 84, died suddenly Tuesday atBridgeton Hospital. Born in Kent County, Del., she was the daughter of thelate Charles and Emily Ridgway. She was the wife of the late Oscar P.Sammons and had been the companion of the late Odis W. Sammons for more than40 years.
Surviving are four daughters Grace E. Jones, Thelma M. Pierce, Dorothy V.Sammons and Eva M. Mosely; two sons, John L. Sammons and Vernon C. Sammons;36 grandchildren; 55 great-grandchildren, a great-great-grandchild andseveral nieces, nephews and cousins. She was predeceased by three sons,Alfred P. Sammons, Oscar P. Sammons and Charles E. Sammons; a daughter,Rebecca E. Johnson; a brother, Alfred Ridgway, and two sisters, MazzieRidgway and Rebecca Turpin.
Funeral services will be held at noon Saturday from the Lively Funeral Home,656 E. Commerce St. Friends may call one hour prior to the services at thefuneral home. Interment will be made in Greenwood Memorial Park, Millville.
2. Death Notice: SAMMONS -- in Bridgeton Hospital of RD 7,Fairton-Gouldtown Roads Bridgeton, Tuesday, Dec. 3, 1985. Letisha "Lettie"Sammons, mother of John, Vernon, Grace Jones, Thelma Pierce, Dorothy Sammonsand Eva Mosley, aged 84 years.
Relatives and friends are invited to attend the funeral services withoutfurther notice from the Lively Funeral Home, 656 E. Commerce St., Bridgeton,on Saturday, Dec. 7 at 12 noon. interment at Greenwood Memorial Park,Millville. Friends may call 11 a.m. to 12 noon at the funeral home.
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] Jackson/Perkins CemeteryDate:99-08-14 15:31:14 EDTFrom:JSammbird@Reply-to:Mitsawokett@To:Mitsawokett@
From: JSammbird@
Subject: Grace Carey Sammons
Grace was never married to a Sammons. She co-inhabited with Oscar P. Sammonswho never divorced Letisha Theresa (Ridgway) Sammons. Letisha lived inBridgeton, NJ and Oscar lived with Grace in Cheswold, De. Oscar is son ofIsaac L. Sammons and Rebecca Ann Clark.
Subj: RE: (Asbury Meth Church records) [Mitsawokett] Digest Number 300Date: 01/06/2000 9:21:26 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Wow, great job with the Asbury Methodist Church records !! I've only briefly scanned it, not really expecting to find anyone necessarily directly-connected to me, and found my great-grandparents right away! (Hopewell Carter and Sallie Ridgeway). (D'oh! Just noticed that you had mentioned that in your original message! Guess that's what I get for not reading all the way through!) (or not remembering it!) I have a copy of their marriage certificate, but it was welcome nonetheless to see it listed here as well!
By the way: one typo noted: In the George Calley by-line of this page: ...the word "church" is spelled as "churchl"
Otherwise, looks great! Thanks again! John
Subj: RE: Children of Sarah Jack/R. & Alfred RidgewayDate: 01/07/2000 6:53:04 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Thanks for the info. I will try to look at this in more detail this evening, after I get home from work, but I'm confused by something already. We were talking about source material for the three children of Sarah Ridgeway and her first husband Alfred Ridgeway, so I'm assuming that's what their last names would be. But the material you quoted from Sarah Seeney Sullivan pertaining to "Chief of Old Nine Bridges" was for George CARTER, not George RIDGEWAY.... According to my file, Sarah Seeney Sullivan was the daughter of Lola Ridgeway (not granddaughter, as noted below), who was the daughter of Sarah Virginia Carter, who was the daughter of George Thomas Carter (aka George Taft Carter), who was the son of William Carty and Elizabeth Wyatt. How does this relate to George RIDGEWAY? Am I not understanding something...? (I know it's rather early). :-) Thanks again, John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 11:01 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Children of Sarah Jack/R. & Alfred Ridgeway
Corrected "Churchl" -- thanks!
>
-----------
Have found our source for the above --- a "forward lineage chart" by SarahSeeney Sullivan, seen at her home near Dover, 2/12/99.
Sarah is the source of the following --
"Interview with Sarah Seeney Sullivan at her home at Cheswold, DE 2/12/99. Sarah's grandmother, Lola Ridgeway, had difficulty understanding George. HisEnglish was not good, but he could easily converse with Nora Morgan's motherwho spoke fluent Algonquin. Called him "Chief of Nine Bridges""
---------
You and Lynn doubted the accuracy of the statement as it seemed to be ratherlate for anyone to be speaking fluent Algonquin.
It is interesting that today Lishia Durham Heard e-mailed us a copy of thedelayed birth cert. for Lulu Durham, dau of Robert J. Durham and ElizabethCarney. Both Robert and Elizabeth are described as being Nanticoke Indians.Are we really sure that the last speakers of the language died in the middle1800's?
Attached is the birth cert. Annie E. Mosley is Betty's great-grandmother. Lulu married Annie's son, Geoffrey (Garfield) Mosley.
-------------------------------------------
Aquabetty@
Betty & Ray Terry11505 Montgomery Rd.Beltsville, MD 20705301-937-1766 >
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Johnson / HarmonDate: 01/08/2000 10:13:11 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hi, Sterling. Thanks again for the earlier information. I hate to trouble you, but I thought I might ask you a couple more questions.
-----
1. In your January 4th message, you wrote:
"Matilda Johnson was the daughter of Purnal and AnnJohnson. I don't know who Ann Johnson's parents were.Ann had a sister named Sophia and a brother named Robert."
Does this mean that Johnson was the last name of both Purnal and Ann? Or was Ann's maiden name something else?
-----
2. Then, in your January 5th message, you wrote:
"The 1860 census lists Purnal Johnson and Anntogether, with Purnal's age as 74 and Ann's as 55. Thechildren Robert and Matilda were still residing there,and there ages were 19, and 18 respectively."
Do you have any more information on this Robert Johnson? (Spouse, etc?) I have a Robert B. Johnson, Sr. who married Elmira Carter, but the ages don't really match up, since Elmira was born ca. 1869, and Purnal's Robert was born ca. 1841.
-----
3. In your January 6th message, you wrote:
"The only information I have is that WingateEphraim Harman was born in 1806. Their children wereAnna Harman, Isaac M. Harman, Nancy Harman, JaneHarman, Robert Harman, Sophia Harman, Wingate E.Harman Jr., John Harman and William Harman."
I had a few people of similar names in my data, and I want to make sure whether any of them are one-and-the-same: Is the Isaac M. Harman above the same as the Isaac Harmon who married Sarah Sockum? Is the Wingate E. Harmon, Jr. above the same as the Wingate Harmon who married Margaret Handsor/Hansley, daughter of Cornelius Handsor/Hansley and Ann _____? (Margaret was born ca. 1852). Is the William Harmon above the same as the Willie Harmon who married Vina _____, and was the father of Isaac Wilson Harmon (who married Myrtle Sammons)?
-----
Again, thanks very much for your help! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Corrections and comments re: Carneys and SammonsDate: 01/08/2000 10:53:36 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List'), Runningdeer93612@ ('Runningdeer93612@')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, Lisa (Carney Lemond). I read your message of January 4th, which was forwarded to our Mitsawokett research group's e-mail list by Betty & Ray Terry when they replied to you on January 5th. I'm not sure whether you may have joined our group yet or not, (I'm sending this message to your address as well as the Mitsawokett group) but I wanted to say "Welcome!" to you nonetheless. You and I are 4th cousins, 5th cousins once removed, and 7th cousins twice removed.
I thought I might ask you a couple of questions.
In your message you mentioned that your father was the son of Edward Carney, Sr, and a descendant of Robert Carney. I know that Edward's father was Joseph Carney (1854-1935) and that Joseph Carney was the son of Sarah Carney (1836-1903), and that Sarah was in turn the daughter of Robert Carney (1815-1889). Do you know who the father of Joseph Carney was? I am the great-great-grandson of Sarah's brother, James Perry Carney.
You mentioned that your grandmother Nellie Carney Sammons re-married to Leroy Morgan. Do you know who Leroy's parents were? Also, is Leroy & Nellie's son Benjamin also called "Sonny"?
Thanks very much, and if there's anything I can share with you, please let me know. John
Subj: RE: Children of Sarah Jack/R. & Alfred RidgewayDate: 01/10/2000 3:59:33 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Thanks for this additional information. I will keep it saved aside, because I'd like to see if we can find at least another source also identifying that these 3 children were indeed children of Sarah and Alfred. Although the dates seem to make it plausible, it's still seems very "iffy." Especially considering: Why would there be a daughter named Elizabeth born ca. 1860, and then a daughter named Ann Elizabeth born 1877, both to the same couple? Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2000 11:13 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Children of Sarah Jack/R. & Alfred Ridgeway
In a message dated 01/06/2000 7:44:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,spiff@ writes:
>
Getting dotty here -- sending e-mails before completing them (2nd tonite). No further info on Elizabeth and George.
Acc/to Sarah Seeney Sullivan's chart, Charles H. Ridgeway married EmilyMiller, had children Letisha, Alfred, Mazzie, Rebecca.
Letisha married Oscar P. Sammons, then lived with Odis Sammons withoutdivorcing Oscar. Our notes --
Letisha T. "Lettie" Sammons
1. Obituary: Letisha T. "Lettie" Sammons, 84, died suddenly Tuesday atBridgeton Hospital. Born in Kent County, Del., she was the daughter of thelate Charles and Emily Ridgway. She was the wife of the late Oscar P.Sammons and had been the companion of the late Odis W. Sammons for more than40 years.
Surviving are four daughters Grace E. Jones, Thelma M. Pierce, Dorothy V.Sammons and Eva M. Mosely; two sons, John L. Sammons and Vernon C. Sammons;36 grandchildren; 55 great-grandchildren, a great-great-grandchild andseveral nieces, nephews and cousins. She was predeceased by three sons,Alfred P. Sammons, Oscar P. Sammons and Charles E. Sammons; a daughter,Rebecca E. Johnson; a brother, Alfred Ridgway, and two sisters, MazzieRidgway and Rebecca Turpin.
Funeral services will be held at noon Saturday from the Lively Funeral Home,656 E. Commerce St. Friends may call one hour prior to the services at thefuneral home. Interment will be made in Greenwood Memorial Park, Millville.
2. Death Notice: SAMMONS -- in Bridgeton Hospital of RD 7,Fairton-Gouldtown Roads Bridgeton, Tuesday, Dec. 3, 1985. Letisha "Lettie"Sammons, mother of John, Vernon, Grace Jones, Thelma Pierce, Dorothy Sammonsand Eva Mosley, aged 84 years.
Relatives and friends are invited to attend the funeral services withoutfurther notice from the Lively Funeral Home, 656 E. Commerce St., Bridgeton,on Saturday, Dec. 7 at 12 noon. interment at Greenwood Memorial Park,Millville. Friends may call 11 a.m. to 12 noon at the funeral home.
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] Jackson/Perkins CemeteryDate:99-08-14 15:31:14 EDTFrom:JSammbird@Reply-to:Mitsawokett@To:Mitsawokett@
From: JSammbird@
Subject: Grace Carey Sammons
Grace was never married to a Sammons. She co-inhabited with Oscar P. Sammonswho never divorced Letisha Theresa (Ridgway) Sammons. Letisha lived inBridgeton, NJ and Oscar lived with Grace in Cheswold, De. Oscar is son ofIsaac L. Sammons and Rebecca Ann Clark.
Subj: RE: the George CartersDate: 01/10/2000 4:00:51 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn')
Hi, Ray & Betty. OK, I'm still a little confused, but what I think you're saying in your message below is:
(Regarding the children of Sarah & Alfred Ridgeway...) You just meant that the person who was the source (Sarah Seeney Sullivan aka Senamoon) for the extra children's names (Eliz., George, & Charles H) was the same person who supplied the story about George Carter being known as "Chief of Nine Bridges" and of speaking Algonquin. You didn't mean to imply any connection between George Carter and George Ridgeway. Right?? (whew!)
But now this statement: "We don't know about the tie between your GeorgeCarter in MD and our George Carter in MD" ...also has me confused. Where did we come up with there being TWO George Carters from MD?? I thought we were always talking about one George Carter, but that there was a dispute as to whether his middle name was Thomas or Taft. Have I forgotten something? What did you mean by "our George Carter in MD?"
Regarding this part: "CalvinCarter, who lives on Rosebowl Lane near Dover, just off Rt. 13, told us ofhis uncle Taft Carter who dressed in Indian garb and sat on his front porch and dispensed traditional herbs and potions, taking after earlier Carters whohad done the same. Taft was a descendant of the MD George Carter" ...Is this Calvin the same person as George Calvin Carter who married Betty Ann Grigsby? I show that he is the son of George Elwood "Dick" Carter, and I do show George Calvin as having and uncle named "Taff" Carter, per a message I received from Lorraine in October 1998, in which she was quoting information from the 1860 and 1900 Kent County censuses. But I doubt that this Taft/Taff would have had the first name of George, since his brother was already George Elwood. I show that Taft/Taff and George Elwood were sons of George Washington Carter and Sarah/Sallie Bell Carney. (Seems like there was also some discussion as to whether this George's middle name was Washington or William). Anyway, this George W. was in turn the son of George Thomas Carty/Carter, of Maryland, who was in turn the son of William Carty and Elizabeth Wyatt. Who is the OTHER George Carter of MD???
Thanks! John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2000 8:41 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Children of Sarah Jack/R. & Alfred Ridgeway
In a message dated 01/07/2000 6:53:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,spiff@ writes:
>
George CARTER it is! We did not mean to infer that the name was GeorgeRidgeway. Sorry to confuse you. The statement attributed to Sarah Sullivanmentioned "Lola Ridgeway" and to be complete should have included hermarried name, "Seeney." A while back you and Lynn were surprised by Sarah'sclaims for George Carter. We don't know about the tie between your GeorgeCarter in MD and our George Carter in MD.
You are correct. Sarah is the daughter.
Betty's greatuncle, Isaiah Return Durham--a fine looking gentleman of mostpronounced Native American appearance--told us and Wilson Davis of the GeorgeCarter in MD connection. He also mentioned the Chief business. CalvinCarter, who lives on Rosebowl Lane near Dover, just off Rt. 13, told us ofhis uncle Taft Carter who dressed in Indian garb and sat on his front porch and dispensed traditional herbs and potions, taking after earlier Carters whohad done the same. Taft was a descendant of the MD George Carter. We arehaving a difficult time documenting the lineage. Most of the folks roundCheswold & environs are long on tales, short on documents (as are mostfolks).
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Johnson / Harmon / Ridgeway (and more)Date: 01/12/2000 7:22:51 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all. On Tuesday, January 11th, Lorraine wrote:
"Matilida Ridgway,dau of Tillman and SinaMosley Ridgway---Matilida's sister Sarah m CharlesRidgway, son of William and Deborah Hansley/HansorRidgway. Charles and Sarah are listed as m andsecond cousins on Charles service records. So Ifigure William must have been Tillmans uncle."
...Hi, Lorraine. Are you sure about Charles? Or are you getting his name mixed up with Alfred's? According to my documentation, Tilghman/Tillman's daughter Sarah married ALFRED Wilbank Ridgeway, son of William and Deborah. (I don't even show William & Deborah as having a son named Charles among their 12 children). After Alfred passed away, then Sarah married Daniel Coker (who had previously been married to a Hester ______). It was in ALFRED's military records that it described he and Sarah as having been second cousins prior to their marriage. If indeed you have something pertaining to a CHARLES Ridgeway as having married this same Sarah, I think I will have to find a suitable facility in which to commit myself, for I will surely have "Genealogists' Insanity" at that point! :-) John
P.S. Celeste: Thank-you for the information in your Sunday message! I haven't forgotten your questions, and hope to answer them this evening if possible.
John C. Carter
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Johnson / Harmon (and more)Date: 01/12/2000 10:15:59 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hi, Celeste, and all.
On Sunday, January 9th Celeste wrote:
>> "Elmira Carter married Robert Henry Johnson. Following is the obituary...."
Thanks for the obituary. Interesting that his middle name is given as Henry. Lorraine had given me in October 1998 that his name was Robert B. Johnson--he was a brother of Lorraine's grandfather. Also per Lorraine's message, Robert and Elmira were the parents of Rose, Madeline (Mabel) and William Johnson. Elmira is stated to have died young. Per later info from Betty & Ray, my notes agree that Robert's second wife was Zepporah Mosley (who was also married to Robert's brother Albert Johnson). Also--my notes aren't clear on this (sorry)--but I show Robert & Zepporah as having children named Walter Johnson and Robert B. Johnson, Jr. (of course, his middle initial can't be "B" and him be a "Jr" if his father's middle name was Henry).
Lorraine: Can you offer any clarification as to whether the middle name should be "B" or "Henry"?
>> "I have sibling data for Robert if you are interested."
Thanks, these are the siblings I show for Robert: Caleb, Leticia ("Lettie"), Mary E., and Albert.
>> "Issac Harmon who married Sarah Sockum:>> I have recorded that this Issac's parents are>> Levin and Rebecca Harmon."
Hmm.... I had the opposite: My notes show that the Levin T. Harmon who married Rebecca (Jackson) was a SON of this Isaac, not his FATHER. Does anyone else have any clarification on this?
>> "Issac W. Harmon (1862-1931) married Vina A.>> (surname unknown) (1867-1939). I have some data>> on their children if you are interested. {Who are this>> Issac's parents? One of Wingate Sr.'s children?}"
According to info I received from Lorraine, Myrtle Sammons married _____ Harmon. Then, according to follow-up information from Preston Sammons, this Harmon was identified as Isaac Wilson Harmon, son of Willie and Vina Harmon. Above, you have Vina as Isaac Wilson's WIFE, but according to P reston, she was his MOTHER. Can anyone offer any clarification on this?
>> "I have Sarah Jane Sockum's parents Levin Sockum>> and Eunice Ridgeway. Do you have any data as to who>> their parents are?"
No, sorry. Brick wall, there, for me.
>> "Would the dates for Myrtle Sammons-Harmon be:>> 10/25/1910 - 5/10/1985?"
Sorry, I don't have any dates for her. (Who do you show her Harmon husband to be, if you have Isaac Wilson Harmon married to Vina instead of Myrtle?)
>> "I have the following individuals noted.>> Are they familiar to you?>> Deborah Ann Handsor m. William Ridgeway>> -- who are her parents?>> Cornelia Ann Handsor m. John Johnson>> -- who are her parents?>> Mary Handsor m. Issac Sockum>> -- who are her parents?>> Caroline Hansley -- who did she marry?>> -- who are her parents?"
Deborah Ann Handsor (ca. 1808 - 15 Jan 1876) and William Ridg(e)way (ca. 1804 - Feb 1867) are my great-great-great-grandparents, but I do not have any information on their parents. Brick wall. But I would love to know if anyone has any information toward this, especially in the case of Deborah Ann Handsor, as I have long wanted to know how she connects to the other Handsors. I have nothing on the parents of Cornelia Handsor, but I show the father of her husband John E. Johnson (ca. 1849 - 27 May 1948) to be Burton Johnson, in turn the son of Robert Johnson. (Source: Notes by Prof. C.A. Weslager, taken during research for "Delaware's Forgotten Folk"). I do not have a Mary Handsor as married to an Isaac Sockum in my data. The only Mary Handsor I have is the one who was a daughter of Aminidab Handsor, Sr. She had brothers born around 1688 - 95. As for Caroline Hansley/Handsor, I have two in my FTM file, but I suspect this is an error and they are one-and-the-same. The "first" one in my data is Caroline Handsor, no info on spouse or parents, but shown as having a daughter named Elizabeth "Zippy" Mosley (who married James H. Kimmey). This info came from Rose Ridgeway. The "second" on in my data is Caroline Hansley, (19 Dec 1846 - 17 Aug 1929), daughter of Cornelius Hansley/Handsor and Ann ______, and married (on 26 Jun 1864) to William Morris Mosley (07 Mar 1840 - 27 Mar 1907). They had 14 children, including the Zepporah Mosley who married Albert Johnson and Robert Johnson (as discussed in the early part of this message). Can anyone verify that these are the same Caroline? Is Zepporah the same as Elizabeth "Zippy"? If so, then she would have had THREE husbands--Albert Johnson, Robert Johnson, and James Kimmey.... ???
Subj: [MDCAROLI] RE: We're growing! (Roll Call)Date: 01/16/2000 7:27:28 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: MDCAROLI-L@
Hello. Per Adina's suggestion, following is information on the Caroline County families I'm researching.
-----
CARTER / CARTY / MCCARTY.Elizabeth A. CARTY / CARTER,born 20 Apr 1821, Caroline Co, MD.died 26 Mar 1906, Kent Co, DE.spouse: unmarried spouse of Dr. Alexander HARDCASTLE, Sr.Elizabeth was the daughter of:William CARTY,born ca. 1792, prob. Caroline or Dorchester Co, MD.died 07 May 1867, Caroline Co, MD.spouse: Elizabeth WYATTWilliam was the son of:James MCCARTY / CARTY,born ca. 1770, (Dorchester Co, MD?).died before 18 Mar 1823.spouse: Barsheba DEAN? Sarah WALKER?
-----
WYATT.Elizabeth WYATT (mentioned above),born ca. 1789, MD.died 15 Jul 1864, prob. Caroline Co, MD.spouse: William CARTY.Elizabeth had brothers named John WYATT (b. ca. 1790) andWilliam WYATT (b. ca. 1797).According to information relayed in "Delaware's Forgotten Folk"by Prof. C.A. Weslager, pub. 1943, Elizabeth would have beena "full-blood Maryland Indian." However, the lateness of this datewould seem to make this unlikely. It seems far more likely thatshe would have been only part Indian.
-----
HARDCASTLE.Dr. Alexander HARDCASTLE, Sr., (mentioned above),born 02 Jan 1826, Castle Hall, Caroline Co, MD.died 24 Jan 1911, Denton, Caroline Co, MD.spouse: unmarried spouse of Elizabeth CARTY / CARTER.(later spouse of Catherine "Kate" Louisa NAUDAIN).Alexander was the son of:William Molleson HARDCASTLE,born 02 Dec 1778, Castle Hall, Caroline Co, MD.died 21 Jun 1874, Castle Hall, Caroline Co, MD.spouse of Anna COLSTON.William was the son of:Thomas H. HARDCASTLE,born 1736, prob. Queen Anne's Co, MD.died 29 Sep 1808, Castle Hall, Caroline Co, MD.spouse of Henrietta DOWNES.Thomas was the son of:Robert HARDCASTLE, Sr.born 07 Jun 1711, Ripley, County Yorkshire, England.died 1760, Queen Anne's Co, MD.spouse of Elinor ______. (and Tamson ______).
-----
COLSTON.Anna COLSTON (mentioned above),born 03 Feb 1778, Talbot Co, MD.died 22 Mar 1865, Castle Hall, Caroline Co, MD.spouse of William Molleson HARDCASTLE.Anna was a daughter of:Henry COLSTON,born unknown,died 1824,spouse of Ann ______.Henry was the son of:James COLSTON, III,born 20 Mar 1719/20, Talbot Co, MD.died 11 Nov 1773, Talbot Co, MD.spouse of Alice OREM.James, III was the son of:James COLSTON, II,born unknown, Talbot Co, MD.died 1729, Talbot Co, MD.spouse of Elizabeth BAILEY.James, II, was the son of:James COLSTON, I,born unknown, England.died unknown, Talbot Co, MD.spouse of ______.
-----
DOWNES.Henrietta DOWNES, (mentioned above),born 20 Apr 1739.died 21 Feb 1812.spouse of Thomas H. HARDCASTLE.Henrietta was the daughter of:John DOWNES, Sr.,born unknown,died unknown,spouse of ______.
-----
COKER.James COKER,born ca. 1816, MD (prob. Caroline Co).died unknown, prob. Kent Co, DE.spouse of Eliza JACKSON.James was the son of:Daniel COKER,born ca. 1766, MD (prob. Caroline Co).died unknown.spouse of Sarah ______.Daniel was a brother of Moses COKER,who was born ca. 1774, died Jul 1867 in Caroline Co, MD.
-----
Would be happy to exchange information with other researchers regarding these families. Thanks! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] FW: [LDR] Jackson Creek-Samuel JacksonDate: 01/16/2000 7:49:30 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all. Following are several interesting posts from the Lower DelMarVa list, concerning a JACKSON family. At one point it mentions , "Jonathan [Jackson] is the ancestor of most of the Delmarva Jackson line." In another place, Nanticoke Hundred (Maryland) is discussed. It is interesting to note that the locales mentioned in these posts--Somerset County and Dorchester County, MD--are just across the Maryland border from the area of Sussex County, DE from which the earliest of "our" Jacksons are known to come from. Does anyone have any information further back than Wesley Jackson, born 11 Jul 1811, who married Elizabeth ______, and was the father of Robert, Nathaniel and Rebecca Jackson? Does anyone have the names of the parents of Eliza Jackson, born ca. 1814, wife of James Coker? Thanks, John
Subj: RE: Annette RidgewayDate: 01/16/2000 3:30:05 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Cleaning up some of my old, unanswered mail --
You mentioned:>> We have no parents for Dorothy Morgan. Did she also>> have a husband Floyd Morgan, or do we have a>> confusion in the family. We know she had a brother Floyd.
My Answer: My records indicate that Dorothy was the daughter of Harvey Morgan (no dates) and Sarah "Sally" E. Carney (no dates). Harvey was the son of James Kenneth Morgan (1851-1931) and Araminta Sisco (1859-1917). I have no parents listed for Sally. I have no other Floyd Morgans in my file, other than the one that was her brother.
You mentioned:>> Arbana Birdella Ridgway is the daughter of Margaret>> Deborah Ridgway (no dates) and James Edward>> "Ned" Davis (1914-1939). Margaret is the daughter>> of Earl Jeremiah Ridgeway and Sarah Virginia Carter.>> Earl's lineage goes back to Tilghman Ridgeway b c 1815.>> Sarah is the daughter of George Taft Carter and Lina>> Mosley. No further lineage. There are questions here>> which may be answered by research in Caroline>> County, MD records.
My Answer: My records agree, with the exception of George Carter's middle name being Thomas instead of Taft. (We've been down THAT road already....)
Subj: RE: Annette RidgewayDate: 01/16/2000 3:30:05 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Cleaning up some of my old, unanswered mail --
You mentioned:>> We have no parents for Dorothy Morgan. Did she also>> have a husband Floyd Morgan, or do we have a>> confusion in the family. We know she had a brother Floyd.
My Answer: My records indicate that Dorothy was the daughter of Harvey Morgan (no dates) and Sarah "Sally" E. Carney (no dates). Harvey was the son of James Kenneth Morgan (1851-1931) and Araminta Sisco (1859-1917). I have no parents listed for Sally. I have no other Floyd Morgans in my file, other than the one that was her brother.
You mentioned:>> Arbana Birdella Ridgway is the daughter of Margaret>> Deborah Ridgway (no dates) and James Edward>> "Ned" Davis (1914-1939). Margaret is the daughter>> of Earl Jeremiah Ridgeway and Sarah Virginia Carter.>> Earl's lineage goes back to Tilghman Ridgeway b c 1815.>> Sarah is the daughter of George Taft Carter and Lina>> Mosley. No further lineage. There are questions here>> which may be answered by research in Caroline>> County, MD records.
My Answer: My records agree, with the exception of George Carter's middle name being Thomas instead of Taft. (We've been down THAT road already....)
Hope this helps! (Sorry for the lateness). John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 2:04 AMTo: RWahoor@; m.a.coker@worldnet.Cc: spiff@; LFREIDA15@Subject: Annette Ridgeway
Hi all --
To make sure we have this straight, when Rose said "Annette Ridgeway is the daughter of Benjamin & Bridella Ridgeway," is the following correct?
Margaret Annette Ridgeway b 1955 is the daughter of Benjamin FranklinRidgeway Jr. (1932-1983) and Arbana Birdella Ridgway (no e) (1937-living). We met her recently at Elizabeth Wilson Davis' funeral at Manship.
Benjamin Franklin Ridgeway Jr. (1932-1983) is the son of Benjamin FranklinRidgeway Sr. (1907-1976) m Dorothy Morgan (1910-1987). We have no parentsfor Dorothy Morgan. Did she also have a husband Floyd Morgan, or do we havea confusion in the family. We know she had a brother Floyd. The Ridgwayline goes back to William, b 1804.
Arbana Birdella Ridgway is the daughter of Margaret Deborah Ridgway (nodates) and James Edward "Ned" Davis (1914-1939). Margaret is the daughter of Earl Jeremiah Ridgeway and Sarah Virginia Carter. Earl's lineage goesback to Tilghman Ridgeway b c 1815. Sarah is the daughter of George TaftCarter and Lina Mosley. No further lineage. There are questions here whichmay be answered by research in Caroline County, MD records.
Subj: Re: Annette RidgewayDate: 01/17/2000 11:55:25 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 01/16/2000 3:30:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, spiff@ writes:
>
Thanks. We did not have the parents.
B&R---------------------God, grant me the Senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones that I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Subj: RE: Mary Priscilla RidgewayDate: 01/16/2000 7:32:17 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hello. Started clearing out some of my old e-mails which were still sitting at the bottom of my Inbox, unresolved, since last year. Then realized the somewhat-recent (Oct 1999) issue of Mary Priscilla Ridgeway had been an issue before (Dec 1998)! sigh....
Also: Looks like the Hattie Clark mentioned as the wife of Harvey Mosley might be the same as the Hattie Clark who was a daughter of Nathaniel Clark, since I show Nathaniel's daughter Hattie as having married a Mosley....
Thanks, John P.S. Also VERY confused over Alexander ZEB Johnson vs. Alexander ZED Mosley!! (Aka Isaac ZED Mosley) And both married to the same woman!! %$#@! [note to self: "Zed" is usually a nickname for Isaiah, not Isaac....] ?
-----Original Message-----From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Thursday, December 31, 1998 1:19 PMTo: spiff@Subject: RE: Ridgeways/Reeds/Sammons/Carneys
Hi John,
< snip >
Levi Mosley mentioned was Levi H Mosley m to Sarah E Pritchett , was theson Of Alexander Mosley and first wife Susan Brown ( Maybelle has LibbyJohnson as Alexanders first wife) ? We got the Susan Brown from Anna BJohnson Ridgway Sammons of Cheswold, she is a decendent of Alexander and hissecond wife Mary Pricilla Ridgway Johnson Mosley.
-----Original Message-----From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 1998 12:26 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Cowards, Robinsons (Mary Priscilla Ridgeway)
Hi John,
< snip >
Concerning the E-mail Mabel sent to all of us I can't find your originalmessage, but remember that we were working on the Purnell's and you had sentthe chain that we were working on and addressed it to Rose, Maybell, Betty andme. I think Maybelle was just adding information. Alexander Mosley, son ofPurnell and Rebecca Mosley was m twice and his second wife was Mary PricillaRidgway Johnson Mosley, her first husband was Alexander (Zeb) Johnson.Maybelle sent you the children from their first and second marriages.However we do differ on the first wife of Alexander Mosley, some of the familymembers say she was Susan Brown, and Maybelle has Libby Johnson. I don'thave any documation to prove either way, or who Alexander Johnson or MaryPricilla Ridgway were/except they were out of Sussex County DE
I'll work on the other E-mail you sent and forward later.
Lorraine .
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Sunday, December 27, 1998 2:18 PMTo: 'Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)'Subject: FW: Mary Priscilla Ridgeway
Hi, Lorraine. I hope you & your family had a nice holiday. (Received your Christmas card the other day; thanks!)
I thought I would ask you if you know what MayBelle's message below is talking about?? I received it on November 16th, but did not have a chance to look at it in detail until now. This seems to have come out of the blue, and she cc'd everybody on it. I can't find any record of my asking her anything about a Mary Priscilla Ridgeway, so I don't even know who this is. I don't have a Mary Priscilla Rdigeway in my FTM. Anyway, I thought you might be able to help me understand who she's talking about, and why she sent this message. Thanks very much! Signed, a very confused, John :-)
----------From: MAYBELLE BORDLEY[SMTP:belle25@]Sent: Monday, November 16, 1998 9:54 PMTo: Spiff@Cc: LFREIDA15@; mollienj@; sstreet@; SnowWolffe@; psam@; hmuncey@; AquaBetty@; Montigre@; Spiff@; ccc47331@si-; kcunningham@mail.dot.state.de.us; seaney@ccmail..il.us; WyNot22@; bugs@; smillerful@; lheite@eldhorn.is; eheite@; jjackson@sunmail.chapman.edu; JACKLYN001@; MPierce96@; 74547.41@; rbright4@; Boatskul70@; Saiu@; stewardm@; jms314@; aseeney@; senamoon@; tcouncil@; hendrix@mursuky.campus.; rcounsel@northland.lib.mi.us; pepper@; benettj@; Heritage49@Subject: Mary Priscilla Ridgeway
Dear John, Mary Priscilla Ridgeway m. Alex Zeb Johnson in 1880, son of JerryJack.They lived in Sussex Co. Their children were : Emma, Ida, Eliza, andReturn.In 1900, Mary Priscilla's 2nd husband was Alexander Mosley Mosley andtheir children were: Virgie, Mary, Arville, Paris, Laura and Harry (?).
Arville m. my aunt Minnie Durham.Alexander's 1st wife was Libby Johnson and their children in 1880 were:David, Levi, Harvey and Mary L. and another sister (name unknown)
Harvey m. Hattie ClarkDavid m. Lucinda MosleyVirgie m. Ambrose HarmonParis (single)Laura I think m. a Starett/Street
MayBelle
Subj: Re: Mary Priscilla RidgewayDate: 01/17/2000 12:17:45 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 01/16/2000 7:32:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, spiff@ writes:
>
The person who has done a lot of work here is Eugenia Christian Foster (Jean), the daughter of Joseph and Myrtle (Sterrett) Christian, granddaughter of William & Virginia (Mosley) Sterrett, ggdaughter of Alexander & Mary Priscilla (Ridgeway) Mosley.
Jean has corresponded with Don Ahshapanek, the ex Mr. Mosley ( I was born in Sussex County, Delaware. My father was Albert Leon Johnson and mother Mabel Marie Clark, both of Sussex County. My mother's great grandmother was Sina Mosley who was married to Tilghman Jack or Ridgeway. For the last 50 years I have lived in Oklahoma and am married to a Kiowa Indian. My children are enrolled Kiowa members. For the above reasons I have done a little bit of research on the Mosleyfamily, because I was interested to know if Sina was Purnell's sister or daughter. If interested to learn more, please feel free to contact me. Don Ahshapanek)
Don sent her some results of his research. We saw it at the Mosley Day at John Wesley Church near Frederica a year or so ago.
Jean is a member of the Mitsawokett List. Why don't you ask her some of the questions which have all of us baffled? Her e-mail address is efoster177@
We have to leave the house Tuesday because we are having floors refinished. They will require 3 coats, each 24 hours apart beginning Wed. am. We will be back Sat. eve. Hope to interview a few folks in Del. & Md.
Subj: RE: Mosley lineagesDate: 01/16/2000 8:19:24 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Was going back over the data from the .TIF file, and entering it into my FTM while comparing against the Mitsawokett website data. I noticed a discrepancy: In the .TIF file (which I believe you said came from Lishia Durham Heard), it gives John Henry Mosley's birthdate as January 1898, but on the Mitsawokett website you have January 1896. Also, you do not have his marriage date listed, although it was listed on the .TIF page (Sep 1919). Also, you do not have his daughter Nellie Catherine Mosley's birthdate listed, although it was listed on the .TIF (12 Jan 1921). Just thought you might like to know these, as an FYI.... Thanks! John P.S. I also noticed on the .TIF file that (Lishia?) says that Jeremiah Durham was born 1861 in Dover, DE, but my records (from MayBelle?? will have to check) show he was born 26 Apr 1867 in Smyrna, DE. She (Lishia?) also has Lydia Muntz as born 1865 in Dover, DE, but my records show her born 04 Oct 1866 in Kenton, DE.
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 10:24 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Mosley lineages
In a message dated 99-10-07 22:16:03 EDT, you write:
>
Right, it takes a while to download, tho not 5 mins in our case. And it is just one page. Nothing earthshaking in it, just more grist for the mill.
B&R
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 9:59 PMTo: 'AquaBetty@'Subject: RE: Mosley lineages
Hi, Ray & Betty. It opened, with something in my computer called "Imaging Preview." The image was rather blurry, but I can somewhat make out the large font. The smaller font (dates, places) is very difficult to read, however.... Odd, because it took an extremely long time to download into my incoming mail (about 5 minutes) (wow, I must be used to this new computer to think that 5 minutes is a "long" time!), and yet it's only an image of one page. John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 12:57 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Mosley lineages
In a message dated 99-10-06 06:49:46 EDT, you write:
> tagged image format. The files are essentiallypictures of lineage sheets. You can try to open the files with MS Imager orwith any software which you use to view GIFs or JPGs.
Attached is one. See if you can open it.
B&R >
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 6:51 AMTo: 'AquaBetty@'Subject: RE: Mosley lineages
Hi, Ray & Betty. Sorry, but I have no idea what .TIF files are.... John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 2:03 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Mosley lineages
We have a couple of .TIF files to send to you--Mosley lineages from LeshiaDurham Heard. Let us know when you can receive them.
B&R
Subj: "Smoke Signals"Date: 01/20/2000 6:50:33 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hello. Just thought I would ask if you are aware of the New Jersey publication entitled the "Cumberland County Reminder"? It is a weekly publication out of Millville. Each week there is a column entitled "Smoke Signals" with tidbits about Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape Indian tribal members, including birth announcements, death notices, who's in town visiting, other little anecdotes, etc. The column is written by Dorcas Ann Ridgway Reed (wife of Walter Allen Reed, Sr, and daughter of William Edgar "June" Ridgway, Jr. and Leanna Dean) and Natalie Mosley Ridgeway (wife of Kenny Ridgeway, and daughter of DuPont W. Mosley and Mary Pearce). Anyway, my Aunt Evelyn, who's currently down here in Florida for two months, has been clipping these columns out each week for me (with a couple of exceptions) for several months now. I have made some copies, and am wondering if you'd be interested in receiving them. It also sounds like a good continuing resource for occasional contemporary genealogical info. Let me know, and I'll get them sent off in the mail. Thanks, John
From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 7:07 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: "Smoke Signals"
In a message dated 01/20/2000 6:50:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, spiff@ writes:
>
On Wednesday we went to the Caroline County courthouse & looked in the wills and administrations indices for our names. Very few found: John W. McCarty, Solomon Wilson(s), many other Wilsons, 2 Greenage, 3 Pritchett, 0 Mosley and other names. The records prior to 1920 have been moved to the Hall of Records in Annapolis.
In the evening we went to Cheswold and had dinner with Roy & Corrinne (Sammons) Christiansen. A good time had by all. Returned to motel & began watching TV. A lot about approaching storm. At midnight, switched to weather channel & saw 6" snow for Dover + below freezing for next 3 days.
We split, arriving home at 2 am, prior to the snow. The house did not smell too bad from the polyurethane applied to the living & dining room floors. The second coat was applied at 1 pm and it stunk good! We wanted to stay away. Now have to go outside to go from one end of the house to the other.
Looking forward to the arrival of your package!
-------------------------------------------
Aquabetty@
Subj: RE: McCarty willDate: 01/21/2000 6:41:06 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
On 1/21, you wrote:
>> On Wednesday we went to the Caroline County courthouse & looked in the wills >> and administrations indices for our names. Very few found: John W. >> McCarty....
...Hmm, the John McCarty will sounds interesting. What year was it probated? I guess it can't be William Carty's son, since his name was John A. Carty. Perhaps a brother of William.... Or an uncle.... Thanks, John
Subj: Re: McCarty willDate: 01/21/2000 9:33:41 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 01/21/2000 6:41:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, spiff@ writes:
>
Date of granting letters 23 Sep 1856. Final accounting 15 May 1860.
The ledgers summarized the various administration tasks. There is no genealogy to be had here. We will look at the papers when we get to Annapolis.
-----------------------
--- B&R --- |"| _|_|_ Brute force, clumsiness, ignorance, (o o) and superstition will always triumph overooO--(_)--Ooo science, skill, knowledge, and logic.
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 15:58:22 -0500 From: "John C. Carter" Subject: Mary Priscilla Ridgeway Mosley
Hello, Jean (& everyone).
My name is John Carter, and Betty & Ray Terry told me of your descent from Alexander Mosley & Mary Priscilla Ridgeway. Several of us have experienced much confusion over Mary Priscilla Ridgeway and her two husbands, and it was suggested that perhaps you could help us out (also based in part on your correspondence with Don Ahshapanek).
Following is a re-cap of what has transpired so far (at least, I think this is most of it):
On Nov 16, 1998, MayBelle Durham Bordley wrote:
>> Mary Priscilla Ridgeway m. Alex Zeb Johnson in 1880,>> son of Jerry Jack.>> They lived in Sussex Co. Their children were : Emma, Ida,>> Eliza, and Return.>> In 1900, Mary Priscilla's 2nd husband was Alexander>> Mosley Mosley and their children were: Virgie, Mary, Arville,>> Paris, Laura and Harry (?).>> Alexander's 1st wife was Libby Johnson and their children>> in 1880 were: David, Levi, Harvey and Mary L. and>> another sister (name unknown)
Then, on Dec 30, 1998, Lorraine Johnson Gregg wrote:
>> Alexander Mosley, son of Purnell and Rebecca Mosley was>> m twice and his second wife was Mary Pricilla Ridgway>> Johnson Mosley, her first husband was Alexander (Zeb)>> Johnson. Maybelle sent you the children from their first and>> second marriages. However we do differ on the first wife of>> Alexander Mosley, some of the family members say she was>> Susan Brown, and Maybelle has Libby Johnson. I don't>> have any documentation to prove either way, or who Alexander>> Johnson or Mary Pricilla Ridgway were/except they were out>> of Sussex County DE
Then, on Dec 31, 1998, Lorraine Johnson Gregg wrote:
>> Levi Mosley mentioned was ...>> the son Of Alexander Mosley and>> first wife Susan Brown ( Maybelle has LibbyJohnson>> as Alexanders first wife) ? We got the Susan Brown>> from Anna B Johnson Ridgway Sammons of Cheswold,>> she is a descendant of Alexander and his second wife>> Mary Pricilla Ridgway Johnson Mosley.
Then, on Jan 30, 1999, Sandy Coursey Marshall wrote:
>> ...Lindy Mosley ... husband was John Sterrett.>> Lindy's mother was Mary Priscilla (Ridgeway) Mosley.>> Her father was "Zed" Mosley (probably Isaac M)>> Re: Mary Priscilla Ridgeway, her 1st husband was Alec>> Johnson; their children Ida Johnson & "Emm" Johnson...>> Maggie -- unsure whether a Johnson from 1st marriage or a Mosley from 2nd>> marriage.>> Mary Priscilla's 2nd marriage was to Zed (Isaac) Mosley; their children were:>> Lindy Mosley who married John Sterrett from Buttonwood, De>> Sally Mosley ?>> Laura Mosley married Gussie Wright of Millsboro>> Arvel (or Orville) Mosley lived in NJ>> Paris Mosley ?>> Virgie Mosley married a Sterrett who died and then she married Ambrose>> Harmon of Sussex County & Seaford>> Harve Mosley ? Cheswold>> This was Zed Mosley's 2nd marriage since his 1st wife also died. He had 2>> sons from 1st marriage. Mary Priscilla also raised them.>> Dave Mosley &>> Levi Mosley.>> Zed also had a daughter, Betty, from one of the 2 marriages. I don't know>> which one. She married a Morris from Seaford, Del.>> When Mary Priscilla's 2nd husband died she came to Millsboro, lived with, but>> did not marry my grandfather, John M. Davis, and raised his 3 children, my>> father & his sisters Annie C Wright and Sarah Kirby.
Then, on March 13, 1999, MayBelle Bordley wrote:
When I send off any info about family lines I always wonder if I've made itclear. Some of the family ties are very tangled & complex without anywithout anymore muddy & tangle info--and Mary Priscilla Ridgeway's family isone. But here goes.Alex Zeb Johnson, son of Jerry Jack, married Mary Priscilla Ridgeway, livedin Sussex Co., DE and their children were:ElizaIdaEmmaReturnMeanwhile in Kent Co., Alexander Mosley, son of Purnell and Rebecca Mosleymarried Libby Johnson and their children were:DavidLeviHarveyMary L.Alexander's wife died, Mary Priscilla's husband did also--they married andtheir children were:VirgieParrisArvilLauraHarveySarah (Anna?)David m Lucinda MosleyHarvey m Hattie ClarkLaura m ?Starrett (Street)Virgie m Ambrose Harmon--their daughter Frances (Mrs. Leonard) I met and she told me a lot of stuff but I can't remember any as I couldn't write it down at the time.Parris never married.Arvil m my Dad's sister, Minnie Durham (and what a strange man he was)Emma Johnson m Jacob MosleyReturn Johnson's daughter, Mary Virginia Johnson Morgan still lives around Cheswold.I personally knew some of these people but I can't vouch for all of thisinfo.
----------
(End of re-cap)
----------
Anyway, I guess the main points are:
1. Based on the above, Mary Priscilla Ridgeway was married to: Alexander / Alec ZEB Johnson and Alexander (Isaac?) ZED Mosley ??? and, to top it off, according to Sandy, she was the daughter of ZED (poss. Isaac M.) Mosley??? (How can she be the daughter of a Mosley if her maiden name was Ridgeway???) ??? And is it too much of a coincidence that she had a father nicknamed ZED, a first husband nicknamed ZEB, and a second husband nicknamed ZED???
[Side Note: my experience up to this point has been that I've seen the nickname ZED (or Zeddock, Zaddock, Zeddick, etc) used for Isaiah, but not Isaac]. JCC
2. Also based on MayBelle's info above, Alexander / Alec ZEB Johnson was the son of Jerry Jack. I know of the "aka-name" Jack being substituted for a certain branch of the Ridgeway family, but was it also used as an "aka-name" for the Johnsons?? How many families used this "aka-name" of Jack?? And WHY???
3. Was Alexander Mosley's first wife Susan Brown or Libby Johnson??
Anyway, Thanks very much, Jean, and... If anyone could shed some much-needed light on this confusion, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!! John
Message: 2 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:03:11 -0500 From: "John C. Carter" Subject: Preston/Presley Durham
Hello, all.
On October 19, 1999, Joseph Romeo wrote (in response to a post by Marian Parrish Coker):>> >>> Is Preston Durham also known as Presley Durham?>> Presley Durham (1901-1985) and Mildred Durham>> (1908-1986) are buried together in the Cheswold>> cemetery.
Then, also on October 19, 1999, Rose Marie Munson Ridgeway wrote:>> Yes, Preston was "Presley"
My question: Is there any connection between this Preston/Presley Durham and the Presley Durham who was married to Millie Carter, daughter of George Washington (some say William) Carter and Sarah Bell Carney?
Thanks, John
Message: 3 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:04:49 -0500 From: "John C. Carter" Subject: Nehemiah Durham
Hello again.
On October 19, 1999, Joseph Romeo wrote:>> ...Did Nehemiah Durham marry (2nd) Ida (Munce)>> Durham who was previously married to Harry Durham?
Then, also on October 19, 1999, Rose Marie Munson Ridgeway wrote:>> Yes, ... Nehemiah "Marr" Durham was with Ida Munce>> Durham, She is my father sister. They were never>> married only common-law.
My question: Which Nehemiah are we talking about here? The Nehemiah who was born ca. 1876 and was married to Margaret "Maggie" Carney? I show Ida Munson Durham as being born ca. 1880, so the ages would be about right....
Thanks! John
Hi John,
An IDA MUNCE was my grandfather's sister and married Joe Newman. Theylived in Millville, NJ.
Harry Muncey
Message: 6 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:42:32 EST From: RomeoJA@Subject: Re: Nehemiah Durham
In a message dated 1/23/00 16:06:22 Eastern Standard Time, spiff@ writes:
>
Hi John,
Yes, I have this Nehemiah Durham as the one who was born ca. 1876/77.
--Joseph.
Message: 8 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:43:29 EST From: Wicomicowm@Subject: Re: The Name Jack... Wouldn't you know it..????
In a message dated 01/23/2000 3:02:38 PM Central Standard Time, spiff@ writes:
> Isaac W. Harmon 1862 - 1931>> wf. Vina A. 1867-1989
Can you please check the dates for Vina? The dates above would mean that she lived to be 122 years old. :-) Also, if it's only the death date that's wrong (i.e., if the birthdate above is correct), then there is another problem: She would have been only 12 years old at the time of her daughter Eunice's birth in 1879. *** UPDATE: I just read Celeste's message from the following day's digest, where she gave the correct death date as 1939, not 1989. But the birthdate discrepancy still exists. Thx.
----------
However, regarding this part from the same date/message:
>> Across from Isaac and Vina are:>> Isaac W. Harmon, Jr. 1904-1986>> Isaac W. Harmon, Jr. 3/5/1927 - 9/1927
Is this correct--both were inscribed "Jr"? Is one actually the son of the other, and thus Isaac III? (And actually, since the great-grandfather was "Isaac Harmon"--haven't seen a middle name yet--this is actually the 4th Isaac in a row).
----------
Thanks again! John
Message: 10 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:17:54 -0500 From: "John C. Carter" Subject: Sarah Harmon Bumbray's middle name
Hi, Sterling & all.
On January 10th, 2000, Sterling wrote (in response to a question from Betty & Ray Terry):
>> According to the Harmon family, Isaac Harmon and Sarah>> Sockum had 18 children, but only six lived to adulthood.>> The one child you have missing from your list is Sarah>> Jane(named after her mother) who married Ralph Bumbray.
Then, on January 13th, 2000, Stacey wrote:
>> I have the following census information:>> per 1870 census>> Isaac Harmon 44 m. Sarah Sockum 32>> children/>> Thomas W. 12>> Levin T. 9>> Sarah S. 8>> Isaac W. 7>> Abraham 5>> Charles Ridgeway - 18
OK, do we have any thoughts on the discrepancy of daughter Sarah's middle name Jane vs. middle initial S.?
Thanks, John
Message: 11 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:21:27 -0500 From: "John C. Carter" Subject: Sadie Ridgeway Sammons
Hi again, Celeste and Stacey.
On January 13th, Celeste wrote:
>> Who are George and Sadie's 13 children?>> Would Sadie Ridgeway be the child>> of Raymond and Georgiana Ridgeway?
Then, also on January 13th, Stacey wrote:
>> I have no idea.. It was Myrtle and Isaac Wilson>> who had the 13 children.>> George and Sadie were Myrtle's parents.
According to information I received from Rose Marie Munson Ridgeway in October of 1998, Sadie Ridgeway was the daughter of Walter Proctor Ridgeway, Sr., and Rhoda E. Palmer. (And, Walter was the son of Alfred Wilbank Ridgeway and his wife/second cousin, Sarah J. Ridgeway).
Thanks, John
Message: 12 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:24:36 -0500 From: "John C. Carter" Subject: Benjamin Sammons / William Ridgeway
Hi, Sterling & all.
On January 13th, Sterling wrote:
>> My uncle, Elmer Street was married to Mary Edna>> Sammons. Her father was Benjamin Sammons and>> mother was Margaret (Maggie) Ridgeway. Do you>> have any birthdates or death dates for Margaret.>> Her parents were William Ridgeway and Myra>> Hansley. Do you have any dates for them? Also,>> do you know who Benjamin Sammons parents were,>> and have any dates for them?>> p.s Elmer was actually my great uncle.
Then, also on January 13th, Celeste wrote:
>> Unfortunately I don't have the dates you request.>> Did Benjamin and Margaret have children other then Mary?
Then, on January 14th, Sterling wrote:
>> Thanks, and I have no idea if Mary Edna had any siblings.
Then, on January 14th, Preston wrote:
>> Children of Benjamin H.(?) SAMMONS and>> Margaret RIDGEWAY:>> Harris b. Oct 1887>> Heather b. Oct 1889>> Arthur C. b. May 1894>> Mary Edna b. Feb 1895>>>> 1910 census: Maggie 45 is a widow, Head of Household, recorded as married for>> 24 years with 5 of 5 children living.>> This is a hard to follow family using the DE census. Don't know who the fifth>> child was. Suspect the father of Benjamin to be Isaac SAMMONS son of William and>> Catherine SAMMONS.
Question: Who are the William Ridgeway and Myra Hansley you mentioned (parents of Margaret/Maggie)? I have seveal William Ridg(e)ways, but none married to a Myra Hansley. Do you have his parents' names? Or siblings?
Thanks, John
Message: 13 Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 22:25:50 -0500 From: "John C. Carter" Subject: Levin S. or Levin T. Harmon?
Hello, Rarihokwats.
Greetings. I have a question about part of your post of January 15th, where you wrote:
>> Isaac Willie had a brother, Levin S. (b. 1861) who>> married Rebecca Jackson. Levin and Rebecca also>> had a son named "Isaac Harmon" whose photo is on>> p.12 of the Photographic Survey. A photo of Rebecca>> is onp.13 of the Photographic Survey, as is a photo of>> Levin.
You have listed Levin as "Levin S.," but I'd had him listed as Levin T. Also, I just looked on p. 13 of my copy of the Photographic Survey, and it says "Levin T." there as well. Was "Levin S." a typo?
Thanks! John
Message: 14 Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:40:19 EST From: Wicomicowm@Subject: Re: Harmons
In a message dated 01/23/2000 9:14:31 PM Central Standard Time, spiff@ writes:
> Across from Isaac and Vina are: >> Isaac W. Harmon, Jr. 1904-1986 >> Isaac W. Harmon, Jr. 3/5/1927 - 9/1927 Is this correct--both were inscribed "Jr"? Is one actually the son of the other, and thus Isaac III? (And actually, since the great-grandfather was "Isaac Harmon"--haven't seen a middle name yet--this is actually the 4th Isaac in a row). >>
One,, 1904-1986 is Isaac Wilson the other is most likely Isaac Willie...
Stacey
Subj: FW: A Bit of Historical Spice to the GenealogyDate: 01/24/2000 4:50:26 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), ned@ ('Heite, Ned'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn')
Hello. Just wondering if anyone has heard of this "Rarihokwats Rarihokwats" person who seems to have recently joined the group? By the way, I wonder what "Rarihokwats Rarihokwats" means? (Is it the Native American equivalent of "Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman"?) Just kidding.... He's actually provided some interesting information below, although I have no idea why he's supplying this to me in particular. He seems to have decided to discuss the Munceys with me after seeing one of my posts to the Mitsawokett list which briefly mentioned Muncey. John
-----Original Message-----From: Rarihokwats Rarihokwats [SMTP:four_arrows@]Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 3:11 PMTo: JohnSubject: A Bit of Historical Spice to the Genealogy
Greetings. The "Munsees" were a subgroup of the Algonquin people whomEuropeans named "Delaware" Indians.
The origin of the term "Munseytown" seems to be in "the Munsee Towns",as in this 1779 note: "Shortly after their enlistment they both with thebody of troops to which they were attached consisting of about ninehundred men to wit three hundred regulars, two companies of volunteersand the balance of militia all under the command of Colonel Broadheadand Lieutenant Colonel Gibson rendezvoused at Fort Pitt. Shortly afterthey marched with the above named troops under the command of theofficer just mentioned to the Munsey Towns on the Allegheny River abouttwo hundred miles above Fort Pitt. They there destroyed the towns afterrouting the Indians. They also destroyed nearly three hundred acres ofcorn, killed several Indians & took a large quantity of plunder ofvarious kinds."
[Fort Pitt, of course, became Pittsburgh, so these people would be 200miles up the Allegheney River.] Scranton was, in fact, Munsee Territory.Settlers came in about 1750, and wanted to exploit the coal -- all ofwhich led to the above tragedy.
The Delaware of New Jersey apparently were referred to as "the Munsee ofthe North".
The Munsee must have been true refugees, since they are also found inWisconsin, where they located about 1820 with the so-called"Stockbridge" Indians of Massachusetts and the Brotherton Indians of NewJersey. The chronology on the attached website indicates the path takenover the years.
Some clues of the journey also from the fact that the county seat ofDelaware County, Indiana, is "Muncey", and local history is that bothnames came from the "Delaware Indians". "Munsee" was a distinct band ofthe Delawares. In fact, a big gathering was held there in 1999: "TheMinnetrista Council for Great Lakes Native American Studies will sponsorthe 5th Annual Woodland Nations Gathering, June 18 to 25, 1995 atMinnetrista Cultural Center, Muncie, Indiana. MCGLNAS is a consortium of20 Woodland Tribes that are presently, or at one time, lived near theGreat Lakes." [Minnetrista Council for Great Lakes Native AmericanStudies, P. O. Box 1527, Muncie, IN 47308 - 1-800-428-5887. NickClark, Chair].
Interestingly enough, "Munsey" was called "Munseytown" prior to 1845,when the name changed. "Munseytown", of course, is the same name as theplace in Ontario which I know, and which, I believe, is also known as"Moraviantown", which may give a clue to its origins. Note:
Husband: James A. (Grandpa) HAMAR Born: 30 NOV 1822 at: Brookville,Franklin,INMarried: 9 APR 1840 at: Munseytown,Delaware,IN Died: 15 SEP 1897 at: Nashville,Lincoln,OR Father:David HAMAR Mother:Juliet POINTS Other Spouses: Sarah STEVENS
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 1:59 PMTo: 'Rarihokwats Rarihokwats'Subject: RE: Greetings from Canada
Hi, Rarihokwats. Thanks for the message. Yes, I have heard of the Munsey folk in Canada. Whereas I suspect there is a connection as well, I have no evidence of anything tying the groups together. John
-----Original Message-----From: Rarihokwats Rarihokwats [SMTP:four_arrows@]Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 9:07 AMTo: John C. CarterSubject: Greetings from Canada
John, are you aware of the "Munsey" Delaware folk in Canada near the SixNations reserve at Brantford? The reserve is known as "Munseytown".
There has to be a link.
Best regards.
Rarihokwats
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 06:37:25 -0500 From: "John C. Carter" Subject: RE: IdaMae Coker
Hello, all.
On January 24th, Lishia wrote:
>> Hello List;>> does anyone have information on IdaMae>> Coker whose mother was a Green.
Then, also on January 24th, Al Sammons wrote:
>> If it is the same one I know, her husband was>> Stanley, and he is pasted on, they have a son>> Stanley Jr. never heard of name Green???>> She is related to my family as far as I've been>> told. Not sure but it was Mosley
I have an Ida Mae Mosley in my file, who was the wife of Stanley Coker (son of William H. Coker [15 Jul 1889 - 03 May 1965] and Lillie Mae Sammons [03 Sep 1891 - 09 Nov 1972]). William was my great-grandfather's brother. Although I show IdaMae and Stanley having a son Clarence Coker, I don't show a child Stanley Jr. Could this be the same couple? I show nothing about the name Green. Thanks, John
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 06:44:58 -0500 From: "John C. Carter" Subject: RE: Sadie Ridgeway Sammons
Hi, Celeste & all.
On January 24th, I wrote:
>> According to information I received from Rose>> Marie Munson Ridgeway in October of 1998,>> Sadie Ridgeway was the daughter of Walter>> Proctor Ridgeway, Sr., and Rhoda E. Palmer.>> (And, Walter was the son of Alfred Wilbank>> Ridgeway and his wife/second cousin,>> Sarah J. Ridgeway).
Then, on January 25th, Celeste wrote:
>> You lost me with this one. Are you saying>> that Walter's wife Rhoda Palmer is a second>> cousin to Albert's wife Sarah Ridgeway?>> Can you explain that relationship?
Then on January 26th, Sterling wrote:
>> Who is this Palmer family? Is this Rhoda>> Palmer any relation to Elizabeth Palmer born>> Jan 6 1820, and married to William Wesley>> Jackson?
OK, Celeste-- Sorry about that, but my sentence was misleading. I meant that Alfred Wilbank Ridgeway was a second cousin of Sarah J. Ridgeway, prior to their becoming husband and wife. (Alfred was the son of William Ridg(e)way and Deborah Handsor, and Sarah J. was the daughter of Tilghman Ridg(e)way--aka Tilghman JACK--and Sina Mosley). So, somehow, there must be a connection between William Ridg(e)way and Tilghman Ridg(e)way. Sterling--I have no further information on the Palmers. Thanks, John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: "Information I posted..."Date: 01/30/2000 10:43:17 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hi, Stacey. I saw your note in this morning's digest (from yesterday), apologizing for the apparent dissatisfaction by someone (or ones) over the material you posted containing Coroner's information and children born out of wedlock. I don't know what may have been said to you, but I just wanted to go on record as saying THANK-YOU for posting the information. This is the type of information that can often provide vital clues to connections that might otherwise never be found. I have no idea why someone would take offense to this material, seeing as it was from the early 1800's and the people involved have long, long, LONG since been passed away. Although I did not find any immediately-recognizable connections in the data myself, I read through it very eagerly, as I have long searched for proof of my own great-grandfather's parentage, as he was an illegitimate child. Alas, that proof remains hidden, if it exists at all. Anyway, I, for one, found your posts to be very informative, and I would hope very much to see similar posts in the future. Thanks, John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Mary Ellen DurhamDate: 01/30/2000 12:25:43 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')CC: phelps1953@ ('phelps1953@')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hi, Ed & Joseph & everyone (and Mr. Phelps). I thought I might follow-up on the messages from a few days ago, concerning Mary Ellen Durham. I'm also taking the liberty of cc'ing Dallas Phelps with this reply. First, a re-cap:
On January 26th, you wrote:
>> I received a message from Dallas Phelps of Camden, SC>> inquiring about information on>> an ancestor of his, Mary Ellen Durham, b. Feb. 10, 1843 in>> Philadelphia. She is the daughter of George Durham, b.>> abt. 1817. Mary Ellen married Peter Leroy Beckett, b.>> April 20, 1831 in New Castle, DE. Mary Ellen died Oct. 25,>> 1906 and is buried in Genesee, MI. I checked the>> information and resources I have and could not locate any>> information. Does anyone have any information on these>> people?
Then, also on January 26th, Joseph Romeo wrote:
>> This looks like Mary Ellen Durham, daughter of Elijah>> Durham and Mary Ann Cott, and her husband Peter Beckett.>> Mary Ellen is listed on my>> >> site. I have her in each census from 1850 to 1900 and him>> in each census from 1860 to 1900. We have not been able>> to find records of the deaths of Elijah and Mary Ann. Would>> welcome info on Peter and Mary's descendants. From>> census records I show the following children: Susan C., ca.>> 1861; George W., ca. 1864; James H., ca. 1866;>> Sarah/Sally, ca. 1869; Isabelle, ca. 1871; Emma, ca. 1873;>> Mary A., ca. 1875; Francis, ca. 1878; Alice, ca. 1882. The>> 1900 census shows Mary as the mother of 12 children, 10>> alive, so there should be other names too.
Then, on January 27th, you wrote:
>> Bingo! Dallas Phelps has his GEDCOM at>> . Click on WorldConnect Project, then>> click on Search GEDCOM and type in Mary Ellen Durham's>> name. Twelve children are listed. All of the children you>> mention are there except Alice. I did not check through all of>> the listings, but it appears that many descendants of Mary>> Ellen and Peter are available. I am forwarding this message>> to Dallas and will email him separately to invite him to join the>> group.
My comments:
I'm curious about the seeming discrepancy between "Elijah" and "George" as the first name of Mary Ellen's father, I have visited Mr. Phelps' GEDCOM at Rootsweb, and do indeed see that he has "George" listed there as her father. Has this been resolved? Or, is there a reference supporting his name as George instead of Elijah? My suggestion is that perhaps her grandfather's name was somehow substituted for her father's, since Elijah's father's name was George Durham. The Cott family Bible, in my possession, has the following reference in the Family Record section: (obvious misspellings corrected): "Elijah Durham a son of George Durham of Kent County & state Delaware was married to Ann Cott a daughter John Cott senior of the same hundred, county & state of afore said one Thursday tenth day of December in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred & forty by [Josaway?] [Lum?] [Lewis?] [omination (denonimation?)] of [Meathis (Methodist?)] [pisable (Episcopal?)] Church 1840." (I believe Joseph--or someone--offered some possible interpretations of the illegible words after my initial posting of the information to the group, and my subsequent mailing of copies of the record, but I don't recall off-hand when that was, to be able to look it up at the moment). Mr. Phelps: If you would also like copies of the Bible records, just let me know and I would be happy to send copies to you. (Please include your mailing address). For the record: I am a great-great-great-grandson of Mary Ann Cott Durham's brother, John D. Cott (ca. 1804 - 16 Oct 1876) and his wife Sarah Ann Dean (ca. 1813 - 05 Jun 1867). Thanks! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Ancestry of Isabelle DurhamDate: 01/30/2000 4:36:01 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hi, Joseph & all.
On January 29th, Joseph wrote:
>> Hi Bob,>> I can offer the following transcripts of census records for the ancestry of>> Isabelle Durham appearing in your GEDCOM. John Durham, her grandfather, was>> most likely the son of Elisha Durham (1794-1864) of Kent Co., Delaware.>>>> 1860 - Indiana, Shelby Co., Jackson Twp., Page No. 118 [965], 912-839, 07 Aug>> 1860:>> John Durham, 32, M, Farmer, 600 pe, Del>> [snip]>>>> 1870 - Indiana, Tipton Co., Prairy Twp.,>> Page No. 5 [554], 31-32, 22 Aug 1870:>> Deurham John, 41, M, W, Farmer, 1000 re,>> 300 pe, Delaware>> [snip]>>>> 1880 - Indiana, Tipton Co., Wildcat Twp., E.D. 132,>> Page No. 15, 134-140,>> 10/11 Jun 1880:>> Durham John, W, M, 52, [head], M, Farmer, Del, Penn, Del>> [snip]>>>> 1900 - Indiana, Randolph Co., Wayne Twp., E.D. 130,>> Sheet No. 3A, 60-62, 05>> Jun 1900:>> Durham John, head, W, M, Jun 1828, 71, M 22,>> Del, Penn, Del, Farmer, R F>> [snip]>> [Etc.]
My comments: First of all, I'm not sure who "Bob" is (whom the e-mail was addressed to), so I'm not sure if this is someone off-list or not.... Regarding this John Durham.... All of the census listings quoted above seem to indicate that this John Durham was born ca. 1828-29 (June 1828, per the 1900 listing). However, the John Durham who was the son of Elisha Durham, according to my data, was born ca. 1837. I have been searching now for about two hours to find the source of this, which I know is in the same group of papers in which I have Joel Durham's petition to the Orphans' Court and other material. However, I can't seem to find it. (&^%$#@!) However, I'm guessing this is based on the 1850 census. I was able to find a couple of other documents, one from Debbie Pierce Unger, and one from Ned Heite, both of which also list this John (Elisha's son) as born 1837. Is there another Durham family of which the John Durham b. 1828 could be a son? Thanks, John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Mary Ellen DurhamDate: 01/30/2000 5:09:55 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')CC: phelps1953@ ('phelps1953@')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hi, Dallas. Thanks for your message (List members: it's attached below).
I'm afraid I don't have too much more on the parents of John D. Cott (ca. 1804 - 16 Oct 1876) and his sister Mary Ann Cott Durham (ca. 1816 - aft. 1880), other than that their father's name was John A. Cott (ca. 1774 - 04 Jan 1854), and their mother was either Deborah Durham or Mary _______. Joseph's message to the list on January 27th aptly sums this up:
>> The discrepancy has not been resolved. I believe>> that Mary was a second wife. The 1850 census>> shows John Cott, age 76, with Mary, age 78. But>> the distribution account of William Durham dated>> 1805 lists a daughter Deborough [sic] Cott, whom>> I assume is the wife of the John Cott listed in the>> 1800 census, family of 3 total. With Mary Ann Cott>> born ca. 1815-1819, the question is, who was her>> mother.
If John D. Cott was indeed born ca. 1804, then evidence seems to lean in favor that Deborah Durham was his mother. However, the jury is still out on Mary Ann.
However, you did not mention your thoughts on Mary Ellen Durham's father's first name (Mary Ann Cott's husband). Do you agree that it is Elijah and not George? Was this a mix-up since Elijah's father's name is George? Or do you have any supporting evidence that Mary Ellen's father (and Mary Ann's husband) was George Durham?
Thanks again, John
-----Original Message-----From: Dallas Phelps [SMTP:phelps1953@]Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 1:52 PMTo: spiff@Cc: bushes@Subject: Thanks so much for Cott-Durham data!!!
Cousin John,
Thanks so very, very much for your wonderful help with my Cott and Durham families of New Castle County as I need all of the help that you and others working on this county can spare at this time as we know so very little about DE. down South!!! Thanks again and please send me more about the parents of John D. (1804-1876) and his sister Mary Ann Cott (c. 1816 ) of New Castle County, DE. I appreciate any help that you provide me and my many cousins!!! Cousin Dallas
Subj: RE: CARTER INFODate: 01/30/2000 5:52:06 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: LFREIDA15@ ('LFREIDA15@')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Lorraine. Thanks for the info.
This is strange. The only George Carter born around 1870 that I have in my file is George Washington Carter, born 26 Jan 1871. (This is the one that some have apparently claimed to be George William Carter, but the Carty/Wyatt Bible says Washington, and his death certificate says Washington, too). So why is his middle initial "E" here?? In my notes I also have his wife Sally as born January 1879 (per info from you in October 1998, mentioning the 1860 & 1900 censuses). So, her age is a little bit off here in the 1920 census (b. ca. 1875).
Most of the children's names match up with what I had on file:
Eva, b. Jun 1898unnamed son, b. May 1900EdithMaryMillieGeorge Elwood "Dick", b. 12 Jun 1900EstherJames "Jim"CharlesTaffDora
The "son not named" in the 1900 census as b. May 1900 seems to be a discrepancy against the son George Elwood "Dick" being born 12 Jun 1900. One of them must have been born another year, or else they are one-and-the-same person and the birthdate got changed over the years.
Charles, Taff & Dora are not on your list. Perhaps they died or were grown up before 1920...? Or perhaps Taff was a nickname for William? William and Lora/Laura from your list were not on my list. Could the "Lora" in 1920 have been "Dora?"
Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2000 10:15 AMTo: spiff@Subject: re: CARTER INFO
JOHN
I came across this while looking at the 1920 census Kent County, DE All b in DE, all listed as M.
Carter George E, age 50, Sally, wife age 45, children: George E age 21, Lora or Laura age 17, Edith age 16, Milie age 15, Mary age 13, James age 11, Wm. age 9, Margaret age 8, Esther age 7 and grandson age 2.
Lorraine
Subj: FW#1: familyDate: 01/30/2000 6:38:43 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Lynn, and Ray & Betty.
Lynn-- I know you're way behind on genealogy right now, but I just thought I would send this along, since it pertains to the Linda Reed Harmon who I think you were first in touch with. Ray & Betty-- I thought you might be interested in the exchange (if it doesn't fry your brain cells).
I will forward Linda's reply separately.
Linda and I have been having some nice, good-intentioned exchanges, but I confess I find it very hard to decipher her replies. She jumps all over the place, and you can never be sure what question she's actually answering. And she seems to skip a lot of the questions. (I guess it doesn't help when I ask so many questions at once).
John
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 12:24 AMTo: 'Linda Harmon'Subject: RE: family
Hi, Linda. I took a look at the message below in more detail, and have a couple of questions:
1. What is the source of William Hansar/Handsor's wife's name as Mary Hansar? I did not previously have his wife's name.
2. What is the source of Jemina Handsor (1813) being the daughter of Nehemiah Handsor, Jr? This one is very interesting, as many researchers have been searching for a long time to determine who Jemina's parents were, so I'm VERY curious to know how this one is documented.
3. You have Isaac Sammons m. Elizabeth, but I'm not sure how this connects to the other people on your list. Are they supposed to be the parents of somebody else on the list? Oh, I guess they are supposed to be the parents of Benjamin Sammons, but this conflicts with information that I have. I show Benjamin Sammons to be the son of Isaac Sammons, Sr. and Esther Handsey (possible corruption of Handsor)
4. What is the source of John Munce/Muncy and Martha Moffit as the parents of Robert Munce Sr.? This is another intriguing one. To my knowledge, no one had ever been able to determine who Robert's parents were. I'm wondering if someone is passing around their speculation of POSSIBLE parents, and somehow it's getting passed along as fact....?
5. You show James Carney as married to Sarah Soja, but I have her last name as Songo. I know some of the family names often got spelled differently....
6. You show Susan Munce/Muntz as born 9/1856--what is the source of this date? You also show that she died 1909 in Delaware. What is the source of this date and location? According to Lorraine Johnson Gregg, Susan died in Cedarville, Cumberland County, NJ.
7. You show that Susan and Thomas had a daughter Margaret "Maggie" Carney, who married Charles Pritchett. Then you show that Sarah Elizabeth Pritchett (wife of Levi Mosley) was a daughter of Maggie & Charles. But this is not possible. According to your info, Susan was born in 1856. Then, according to info I received from Lorraine, their daughter Maggie was born ca. 1874. Therefore, there is no possible way that Sarah (who was born in 1873) could be a daughter of Maggie who was not even born until ca. 1874 herself. Something is wrong here. Even if the Maggie's birthdate of ca. 1874 date is wrong, it's still not possible for Susan to be born in 1856 and to have a granddaughter born in 1873. I did show Beulah and Howard (Pop) Pritchett as children of Charles and Maggie, but I'm not sure about the other Pritchett children you've listed (Rev. Charles and Ann).
8. You show Sarah Elizabeth Mosley as having 3 husbands. I only had the latter two listed. I'm curious about the 1st husband, Harry Harmon. Was he related to Warren Brewster Harmon, Sr?
9. Thanks for all the information on Lena Harmon Jackson's family. Do you have the parents and/or ancestry of her husband Richard Jackson? Is he from the Jacksons of Delaware? (I guess most were from Sussex County, or their lines had origins there).
That's all for this one. Thanks again for all your help! John
-----Original Message-----From: Linda Harmon [SMTP:linda@]Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 8:09 PMTo: John C. Carter; Nanticoke9@Subject: family
Hi John,
Here is the information on my husbands side and the Pritchett/Mosley's.
William Hansar md. Mary Hansar
their son: Nehemiah Handsor, Sr. md. Johnanna
Nehemiah Handsor, Sr. and Johnanna son:
Nehemiah Handsor, Jr. b. 1753 Dela. d. 1821 Dela. (?)
Nehemiah Handsor and (?) their children: Jemina Handsor/Hansor b. 1813 Dela. md. 5/20/1832 Dover Dela.
Isaac Sammons md. Elizabeth (?)
John Munce/Mucy b. 1765 md. 1789 Kent Co., Dela. Martha Moffit d.1852
Robert Munce, Sr. b. bef. 1783 d.aft.1821 md.(?)
Robert Munce, Jr. b. 1810 Dela. d. 1872 Dela. md.5/20/1832 Dover, Dela. Jemina Hansor b. 1813 Dela.
Benjamin Sammons b. 2/1837 md. Lydia Munce/Muncey b. 9/1832 Little Creek 100, Kent Co., Dela. d. 1909 Dela.
James Carney b. 1824 Delaware/AB md. Sarah Soja b. 1827 Delaware/AB
daughter: Sunsan Munce/Muntz b.9/1856 Little Creek 100, Kent Co., Dela.d. 1909 Delaware md. Thomas Carney b.1851 Dela. d.1893 Dela.
their daughter: Margaret Maggie Carney md. Charles A./H./E. Pritchett (I don't know what A./H./E. stands for yet)
their children: Sarah Elizabeth Pritchett b.8/1873 Caroline Co., Maryland buried in Fork Branch, Dela. md. Levi H. Mosley, Sr.b.1866 Cheswold, Kent Co., De.
Beulah Mae Pritchett md. James Clark, Harry Sparks Gould
Rev. Charles (Clied) Pritchett b. 1899 d.1981 IM, Cheswold, Kent Co., Dela. md. Elva (?)
Howard (Pop) Pritchett b. 8/1/1898 md. 6/6/1920 Alberta Ridgewayd.7/15/1988 IM, Cheswold, Kent Co., Dela.
Ann Pritchett b. 1/1886 Maryland
Levi H. Mosley, Sr. & Sarah E. Pritchett's children:
Sarah Elizabeth Mosley b. 4/24/1908 Dover, De. d.7/3/1975 Fernwood Cem., Hopewell Twsp., Cumb. Co., NJ md. Harry Harmon, Warren Brewster Harmon, Sr. b.5/4/1905 Philadelphia, Pa. d.3/17/1958 Eden Cem., Pa, William Franklin Sammons
Mary P. Mosley b. 8/1898 d. 5/16/1966 Fordsville Cem., Fordsville, Cumb. Co., NJ md. James F. Green
Willard Mosley b. 1905 d. 12/11/1957 Fordsville Cem., Fordsville,Cumb. Co., NJ md. Prudence Gould
Anna Mariah Mosley b. 8/1894 Dover, De., md. 4/15/1914 Dover,De.d.1946 Nathan Louis Coker, Oliver Cooper, Sr.
Levi Mosley buried in Fork Branch, Del.
Lena Mosley b.11/1891 d.1966 Fernwood Cem., Hopewell Twsp., Cumb. Co., NJ md. William Murray
Sarah E. Mosley and Warren Brewster Harmon, Sr. Children:
Gloria E. Harmon b. 7/23 Phila., Pa.
Lorraine M. Harmon b.4/9/1931 Phila., Pa. md. Richard DiMaio d.7/17/1996 Broomall, Del. Co., Pa.
Warren Brewster Harmon, Jr. b. 7/31 Phila., Pa. md. Suzanne M. Fortune, Linda S. Reed b.1/29 md.7/18/1987 Hopewell Township, Cumb. Co., NJ
Lena M. Harmon b. 12/3 Phila., Pa. divorce Richard Jackson of Phila.,Pa.
Shirley A. (Bunny) Harmon b. 10/15 Phila., Pa. md. 11/11/1961 Jack Carney, Jr. Bridgeton, NJ
Michael S. Harmon, Sr. b. 5/17 Phila., Pa. md.12/6/1965 Julianne Dillon
Jay A. Harmon, Sr. b. 6/8 Phila., Pa. md. Norma Pugh
Richard Jackson, Sr. and Lena M. Harmon children:
Richard Jackson, Jr. b.11/24 Phila., PA md. Coralee (?), Laverne(?)
Kimberly Jackson b. 10/31 Phila., PA md. Gary Bundy b.10/24 Phila., PA.
Lance A. Jackson b. 2/29 Phila., Pa md. Jennifer Lichtenwalner, 11/19/1994 to Marieka K. Farkas
Wayne W. Jackson b. 6/12 Phila., PA md. 5/11/1991 Dawn Quinn
Keith Jackson b. 4/16 Phila., PA
Richard Jackson, Jr. and Laverne (?) children: Lance Jackson (Will have to give you the other children from Coralee)
Gary Bundy and Kimberly Jackson children: Gina b.6/14 Phila., PA. Joshua b. 4/9 Phila., PA
Wayne Jackson and Dawn Quinn children: Laura Jackson b. 3/ Jenna Marie Jackson b.5/17 Sarah Elizabeth Jackson b.?
This is Lena's family. Have the rest, if you want it. Brother's and Sister's.
Subj: FW#2: FamilyDate: 01/30/2000 6:40:50 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hello again. Here is the reply I received. I can't make heads nor tails out of most of it. It just seems to be random information, and doesn't really seem to answer most of the questions I had sent. I think I'm just going to file it and forget about it for now.... John
-----Original Message-----From: Linda Harmon [SMTP:linda@]Sent: Monday, January 24, 2000 8:08 PMTo: John C. CarterSubject: Family
John,
The information I gave you came from the following people:
Theo Brauna: Pritchetts and Mosley's
Jacklyn001: Robert Munce md. 5/20/1832 Jemima Hansor Benjamin Durham md. Sally Ann Hansor
also from Rose Ridgeway
familyHistories/PurnellMosley GenerationsMitsawokett: Message: 11,12, 15 Thur. 13 Jan.
freeafricanamericans
I have copied so many family papers and sites, and don't have it in order yet.But, these are just a few that has shared information with me.
Question # 8: Sarah Elizabeth Mosley did have 3 husbands, I am correct onthis: Harry Harmon was from Dela. (That's all my husband knows about him)Don't know anything else on Harry and his relatives.
Question # 9: My husband said he always said he came from Md. or Va., andfrom a different tribe.
Question # 7: Rev. Charles was Howard (Pop) Pritchett's brother, they areburied close to each other in Cheswold, De.Theo Brauna: death cert. Claude Pritchett his parents were Alex & Mariah Pritchett1870 census: listed as Alexander & Annie M. Pritchett.
1920 Census: for De Pritchett, Roy head age 23 Sarah V. wife, age 19 Elizabeth, dau, couldn't make out rest Howard, brother age 22
Pritchett, Charles, age 20 Elva, age 18
1920 West Dover Pritchett, Claude age 31, b. in MD Essie 30, b. in DE Children: Estella age 10 Claude " 7 Frank H " 4 David W " 3
Dover Town
Pritchett, Roland age 24 color B. b. in DE Mary E. " 20 " MU b. in DE
Death Cert. Levi H. Mosley informant was Elizabeth (Lizzie) Mosley age 46 died April 26, 1912 Buried at Fork Branch. father Alexander Mosley birthplace DE mother Becky Ann Miller birthplace DE
1870 Census - Fredercia, De Milford Hundred Alexander Mosley 36 wife: Rebecca 32sons: David 6 Levi 5next door was Morris
This is what Rose Gave me way back:
James Carney b.1824 md. Sarah Sonja b.1827 Thomas Carney b.1851 d.1893 md. Susan Muntz Margaret Maggie Carney md. Charles Pritchett (4/99 from LG) Source: Heartland/8074/Mitsawokett/Vital Records/K-marr-2.htm.
Isaac Sammons md. Elizabeth Ridgeway Benjamin Sammons b.1837 d.1905 md. Lydia Munce/Muncey b.1832 d.1909
Robert Munce, Jr. b.1810 d.1872 md.May 20, 1832 Jemina Handsor b. 1813
Sarah Elizabeth (Lizzie) Pritchett b. 1873 md. Levi H. Mosley b. 1870 d.1912 Sarah Elizabeth Mosley b. 1908 d.1975
I show my mom the pictures that you gave me. The boy with William Ridgway andEmma Eliza can't be Harry Durham. Because Harry was younger than Emma.Mom asked her brother Kenneth to make sure she was telling me right. So I'mcurious to who it is in the photo with them.
Hope this can clear up everything. Talk to you soon.
Linda
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: RidgwayDate: 01/30/2000 7:56:34 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hi, Lorraine.
On January 13th, you wrote:
>> Sarah Ridgway, dau of Tillman and Sina Ridgway>> m Alfred Wilbank Ridgway, son of William and>> Deborah Ridgway. Alfred and Sarah's son>> Charles H. m Emily Miller and they were parents>> of Mazzie, Rebecka, Alfred and Letishia (Lettie)>> Ridgway.
Do you know who these four children married? (Mazzie, Rebecka, Alfred and Letishia). Is this Letishia (Lettie) any connection to the Leticia Ridgeway who married Enos Pierce Jr.? (If not, do you know who the parents were of Enos' wife Leticia?)
Subj: RE: James Franklin Johnson or Franklin James JohnsonDate: 01/30/2000 9:12:30 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray and Betty. After many months of procrastination, I finally decided to try to figure this one out. However, it is killing what little brain cells I have left after a whole day of genealogy. :-) I've re-read and re-read some of the paragraphs over and over, and I just don't get it. Lines like this one: "She was a Mosley--Sara is my cousin" and this one: "Their mom was Esther Hughes and father was Return Johnson and Earl Ridgeway Sr." ...are making no sense whatsoever to me. I can see some of the families in my file that all this seems to be talking about, but connections aren't matching up. Have you worked on this since you originally sent it to me in October? Are you still in touch with this Sherren (do you have her e-mail address?), that we might ask for some clarifications? As to your specific question about James Franklin Johnson vs. Franklin James Johnson, it appears I do indeed have this person in two places (same mother but different father) with the names reversed. So I need to get this fixed. But I'd like to fix it all at once, if we can decipher all the rest of Sherren's material. Thanks! (Sorry it took so long to respond to this one!) John P.S. Do you know if the Carlton Durham she mentions is the same as the Carlton Durham (1902-1972) married to Hilda Ridgeway, daughter of William Edgar "Edgar" Ridgeway and Emma Morgan?
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 2:10 AMTo: spiff@Subject: James Franklin Johnson or Franklin James Johnson
Our friend the linguist, Sherren, may have tangled this name. She wrote(edited):
"My name is Sherren Darlene Mosley by marriage, my maiden name is Johnson.My father's James Franklin Johnson, my mom Evelyn Constance Sammons. Myhusband name is James Edward Mosley Jr. My grandfather was Isaac Sammons.His father was Isaac Sammons and his mom was Rebecca Clark.
"When you look in the genealogy, the Sammons are related to me and I think myhusband might be related to you. His dad's mom was Josephine Durham. Shewas married to Carlton Durham. She was a Mosley--Sara is my cousin. Her mom and my grandfather was halfbrother and sister (had same mom differentdads). Their mom was Esther Hughes and father was Return Johnson and EarlRidgeway Sr. She was married twice. My dad's mom was Mary C. Carney andher huband was Franklin James Johnson. His mom was Esther Hughes and dad wasReturn Johnson.
"I have three daughters. Their names are Shadina Mosley, Tamatha Durham, Lisa Ridgeway, and six grandchilden, Wayne, Ronald, Krystal Ridgeway,Charon, Lauren Durham and Ryan Satterfield (that's Shadina's boy)."
Note this -- "Her mom and my grandfather was halfbrother and sister (had samemom different dads). Their mom was Esther Hughes and father was ReturnJohnson and Earl Ridgeway Sr."
Esther Hughes?
In PAF we have questionable data --
Return Johnson m Sarah Virginia Carter and had childrenEstherWillisMaryIsaiahAnnaJames Franklin Johnson??
Return Johnson m Esther Hughes and had childrenFranklin James Johnson ?? b 1900
Is this the same kid?
B&R
Subj: RE: Virginia Reed or Carney?Date: 01/30/2000 9:32:04 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Here's another oldie but a goodie! I had actually received the answer on this one, but had never gotten around to re-entering the data correctly. (I've pasted together the whole chain below, so you can look back at the history of this thing if necessary. Your original message is at bottom). After receiving the responses from Arlena "Pinky" Coker, I would just have to say that the James L. Carney was a typo, and that it should have been James L. Reed. Everything else matches up, and became more clear with Pinky's most recent message when she gave Leslie Reed's full name as James Leslie Reed. That explains the "James L.," and I guess the "Carney" was just a mistake. As for why Preston had it in his file, I'm guessing he got the data from the same flawed obituary that you saw. Not sure.... The only thing remaining that I'm wondering about is: who were the parents of this James Leslie "Les" Reed? I do have a Leslie Reed in my file, b. 1888, son of Allan Reed & Dorothy Rebecca Grimson, but I show they also have a child names James Reed, b. 1883. So, if these are the correct parents, which child is James Leslie Reed? (This information came from Lorraine, so perhaps she will know). Lorraine: Any ideas on the parents of James Leslie "Les" Reed? Thanks!! John
-----Original Message-----From: ACoker43@ [SMTP:ACoker43@]Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 7:05 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Virginia Reed or Carney?
Hi ,I tried to find the obit, in my papers.All I found was the progam fromthe funeral. James Leslie Reed& Ester Johnson Reed were her parents.Our homeuse to be their place. When Uncle Less and Ms. Ester werer married.
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 12:52 PMTo: 'ACoker43@'Subject: RE: Virginia Reed or Carney?
Hi, Pinky. Thanks for your information on Virginia, Roland Carney's wife. Your information sounds very clear, but I'm still confused. Betty & Ray Terry sent me the following:
>> Obituary excerpts, seen at James Mosley's 9 May 1998:>> Virginia Carney born 2 Oct 1920, Cheswold,>> died 29 Jul 1997, Dover.>> Buried at Manship. Daughter of James L. Carney and>> Mary Esther Johnson.>> Married 56 years to Roland C. Carney.>> 2 daughters: Joyce Luzader, Dover, Del>> Peggy Carney, Dover, Del>> 1 sister: Lillian Turner, Dover, Del>> 3 grandchildren, 5 greatgrandchildren.
I'm not sure why the obituary would say she was a daughter of James Carney and Mary Esther Johnson, if she was a daughter of Leslie Reed and Esther Johnson. Can you figure out why the information is different? Sounds like another Tree Twister! Thanks for your help, John
-----Original Message-----From: ACoker43@ [SMTP:ACoker43@]Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 9:42 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Virginia Reed Carney or Virginia Carney Carney?
Hi John,How are things with you?As to your question. Virginia Lee (Reed) Carney, is Roland Carneys wife . Herparents were Leslie Reed, and Ester (Johnson) Reed . They are both buried atEmmanuel .They were seperated for years.My Grandmother Margaret and Uncle Les dated fora peroid of time, when I was a child.Ester was a house keeper for Chief Charles Clark.Virginia 's sister was married to Roland's brother Lincoln Carney.Her namewas Edna.Roland has two daughters, Joyce Luzader& Peggy Lee Carney. Peggy lives twodoors from me,. She bought her mothers brothers house when he passed. Hisname was Walter Reed , we all called him UNcle Peter Rabbit.He was married tomy Moms niece. Here goes the tree twisters again.
< snip> Love Pinky
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 8:05 PMTo: 'ACoker43@'Subject: Virginia Reed Carney or Virginia Carney Carney?
Hi, Pinky. How are you? I had a quick question about a family member from some info you shared with me a long time ago. I think you told me that the wife of Roland Carney (son of James Robert or Robert James Carney and Cordelia Mosely) was Virginia Reed, but someone in the genealogy group is asking whether it shouldn't be Virginia Carney, daughter of a James L. Carney and Esther Johnson. I don't even have a James L. Carney in my file, so I don't know who he is. Do you know if Virginia might have been married previously to a Reed? Thanks for your help! John
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 8:13 PMTo: 'AquaBetty@'Subject: RE: Virginia Reed or Carney?
Hi, Ray & Betty. I just sent off a message to a cousin to check on this. I've had her listed as Virginia Reed for many, many years, back on my old hand-drawn charts! I'll let you know what I find out. I did a search in my file for a James L. Carney, but couldn't find one. Do you know where he connects from? Who his parents were? Curiously, though, when I did a search for an Esther Johnson, I found one (daughter of Return Johnson and Sarah Virginia Carter), and guess who she was married to? A ______ Reed! (From the "Ridgeway" message you sent me on Aug 27th). However, this could just be coincidence. I also did a search under Mary E. Johnson, and found one (b. Apr 1868)--married to a James H. Carney (b. 26 Dec 1861). Not sure whether this has anything to do with it or not.... Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 10:32 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Virginia Reed or Carney?
Hi John,
Preston's attachment (Sarah.gif) says that James L. Carney and Mary EsterJohnson had a daughter, Virginia R. Carney, who married Roland C. Carney.Your GEDCOM to us stated that Virginia's surname was Reed. Her obit says shewas James Carney's daughter. Was she married priorly to Reed? Is Carneycorrect?
Our notes:
1. GEDCOM file from John Carter 3/98 (spiff@): Says name prior to marriage with Roland Carney was Virginia Reed.
BUT see Note 2 --
2. Obituary excerpts, seen at James Mosley's 9 May 1998: Virginia Carney born 2 Oct 1920, Cheswold, died 29 Jul 1997, Dover. Buried at Manship. Daughter of James L. Carney and Mary Esther Johnson. Married 56 years to Roland C. Carney. 2 daughters: Joyce Luzader, Dover, Del Peggy Carney, Dover, Del 1 sister: Lillian Turner, Dover, Del 3 grandchildren, 5 greatgrandchildren.
3. SSDI: SSN 221-10-4582, 2 Oct 1920-29 Jul 1997
Subj: [Mitsawokett] An OpinionDate: 02/19/2000 9:06:49 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')CC: JayPMorgan@ ('Morgan, Jay P.')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all. I hesitate to delve into this subject, but...
I have read with interest the messages of the last few days, and understand the desire to ensure that all Native Americans are counted as such, and to do as much as possible to ensure funding for Native American groups and organizations. However, after reading all these messages, culminating with Andre Cramblit's last message ("Why The Census Matters To Me" on Feb 18th), I can't help but make the following observations:
For those who are 100% Native American, by all means they should check only the Native American box on the census forms. But what about those who are NOT 100% Native American? The intention behind all the discussion & posts lately has obviously been that steps must be taken to ensure that Native American heritage is preserved. In fact, in Andre's last message he states, "If you have Native blood please ensure that our descendants are not further separated from their cultural heritage." But for those who are NOT 100% Native American, what about the separation of the OTHER cultural heritages in their background, whether it be black, white, or whatever? Do these cultural heritages not also deserve to be preserved?
Those with black heritage having been assimilated into either white, Native, or both have an elevated cause for concern here, as many of those in previous generations (due to societal constraints or self-choice or a combination thereof) have done their best to erase, eradicate, and eliminate all trace of this in their background. By doing this, what is being said about the progenitors of THOSE distant ancestors, who are being denied all acceptance of their existence? Is their cultural heritage not being wiped clean just as surely as if the Ku Klux Klan had taken care of it themselves? Or just as permanently as if the White Man had passed out small-pox-infested blankets to the Native Americans?
It is not my intent to upset anyone on this list, and I am not making challenges toward the racial background of anyone. I am merely offering the statement that caution and care should be taken into this decision, and that if one truly believes that all people are equal, and that all people are brothers and sisters, then each and every last ancestor deserves recognition, and each and every last facet of heritage deserves remembrance.
Thanks for listening. John
Subj: RE: Wow!Date: 02/23/2000 5:06:17 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: DRMVP@ ('Dr. m. v. Perry')CC: seen1@worldnet. ('Seeney, Chuck'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ginnie. Glad you liked the Mitsawokett site. There are many researchers involved, who are all contributing to the data contained at the site. The amount of new information available due to this sharing is phenomenal. As for why you don't see Lola or Jeremiah on the site, please refer to my message of Saturday, 2/19. In this message (attached below, near the bottom of this chain) I explained that this line of Ridgeways was not contained in the data, although it is virtually certain that a connection exists. The exact connection still needs to be worked out. As for why Forest's 4 children you named are not showing, I will have to check on this when I have time. (Been very swamped lately!) I do show their names in my database. I think I/we had received some initial info from Chuck or his cousin (or someone), and then more info was added later. The later info probably hasn't been relayed to the people who update the Mitsawokett website. In the meantime, I am cc'ing the "webmasters" of the site, so they are aware that more data is coming (if they don't already have it, pending a site update). Thanks! John
-----Original Message-----From: Dr. m. v. Perry [SMTP:DRMVP@]Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 7:04 AMTo: Chuck SeeneyCc: spiff@Subject: Wow!
I am awed! You guys have really put in the hours. I accessed your websites and finally got into Mitsawokett. I must have spent 3 hours going link to link. You have done a phenominal job. I appreciate all you have done. There are a coupla questions-- like where does Lola Mae Ridgeway (Archer) daughter of Jeremiah,fit? I didn't find her. I wondered also where the rest of Forest Seeney's family are. I didn't see Walter, Gerald, Nancy, Tony? If I can help fill the gaps I am willing to do so. Thanks.Ginnieaka The Docta
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 4:01 PMTo: 'Dr. m. v. Perry'Subject: RE: It will not open
Hi, Ginnie.
Hmm, it looks like a space got inserted between "Ridgeway" and "bc1804/index" Perhaps the link is being "wrapped" when displayed by your e-mail program...?
Anyway, here is the full link again:
. html
Or, if you get the same problem, try this"
Go to the main page, which is at:
Then, click on "Main Menu." Then, click on "Family History Reports." Then, click on "Descendants of William Ridgway." (You'll need to scroll down quite a way for this one).
Hope this helps! Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----From: Dr. m. v. Perry [SMTP:DRMVP@]Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 10:43 AMTo: spiff@Subject: It will not open
I tried opening the Seeney file several times. It will not open. Please check the url for me. I have bc1804/index. Is that right?Ginnieaka The Docta
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2000 8:23 PMTo: Dr. m. v. PerryCc: 'Seeney, Chuck'Subject: RE: Whatever we can share
Hi, Dr. Perry. Yes, Chuck is correct. Let us know what we may be able to help you with. In the meantime, below is a link for the website that contains "my" Ridg(e)way line. (In the site's index, I can be found under Carter, John Cyrus).
. html
However, if you are descended from the same Ridgeway line that Chuck's cousin William Seeney is from (i.e., Lola Ridgeway Archer, daughter of Jeremiah Ridgeway, son of Tilghman Ridgeway), then you will not find that line among the data on the website. We are virtually certain that a connection exists between Tilghman Ridgeway's line and William Ridg(e)way's line, but it hasn't yet been established. A daughter of Tilghman (Sarah J.) married a son of William (Alfred W.), and in pension records it was stated that they were second cousins prior to their marriage. Eventually we hope to define the connection.
Let me know if you have any questions (although I've been very busy lately, and can't promise immediate answers). Good luck! Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----From: Charles Seeney [SMTP:seen1@worldnet.]Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2000 2:30 PMTo: Dr. m. v. PerryCc: John C. CarterSubject: Re: Whatever we can share
Hi Ginnie.............
Haven't talked to you in a long time. Congrats on the receiving thedoctorate -- what field?
What genealogy system are you using? I have Family Tree Maker. Willyour system import my data? If so, I can send you files via e-mail.
A fellow in our Genealogy "group" -- John Carter, also a Ridgewaydescendant, has done extensive work on your side of the family. Thedata I gave Rick came from him. His family tree is posted on awebsite. He would also be willing to send you his info. They havehelped me enormously.
Dave Seaney, Indianapolis, has also done extensive research on theSeeney/Seaney family and his work can be found at.
This is a great team.
Cuzzin Chuck
-------------------------------------------
"Dr. m. v. Perry" wrote:
> Hi Chuck! Rick told me of your family tree endeavor. I have some info> on the Archer and Ridgeway sides. If I can offer you anything thing> please e-mail. Because of Aunt Sarah and Uncle Dick's marriage I will> need info on the Seeneys and certainly appreciate anything you can> send me.Hope all are well and wish you a God blessed> 2000.Sincerely,The Docta(Ginnie Perry)
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: GAR / SUVCW / Miller KarneyDate: 02/24/2000 8:13:52 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)
On Sunday, Nov 21, 1999, Ed Bush wrote:
>> On August 12, 1999, Don posted information on the >> Romulus Cemetery recorded by the Fort Ponchartrain >> Chapter of the DAR in Highland Park, MI, in 1934- >> 1935, p. 106: Karney, Angeline Songo, born Feb. 6, >> 1852, died Mar. 28, 1898, wife of Miller Kearney.>> On the same page is Miller Kearney, no dates, Co. A, >> 3d. Mich, Ing (sic) (Govt Mkr) G.A.R. Apparently Miller >> Carney was a veteran of the Civil War. I believe the >> G.A.R. designation stands for Grand Army of the >> Republic. This is an organization for Civil War >> veterans and their families that still exists today. My >> only contact with this organization is in Philadelphia >> where an ancestor from a different family was a >> member. I was able to get information from the >> membership records that are maintained in the GAR>> Museum in Philadelphia. Perhaps there is such a >> museum in Michigan that would have membership >> information on Miller Carney.
Then, on Monday, Nov 22, 1999, I wrote:
>> Yes, Ed, you are correct: GAR stands for Grand Army >> of the Republic. As Harry noted, I am a member of the >> SUVCW (Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War), >> which is an off-shoot of the GAR. GAR members were >> actual veterans of the Civil War, and SUVCW members >> must prove descent from either a Civil War veteran, or >> the brother of a Civil War veteran.
>> This month's issue of "The Banner," the national >> journal of the SUVCW, just arrived in the mail a couple of >> days ago, and is a 50th anniversary commemorative >> issue of the last national encampment of the GAR, which >> was in 1949. At that time, there were only 6 remaining >> members. Each was 100 years old or more.
>> In the literature I have concerning the SUVCW, it >> states that the organization was organized November 12, >> 1881, incorporated by an Act of Congress in 1954, and >> is the "legal heir" to the GAR. >> I'm not sure how one might go about specifically>> researching a GAR member, other than by the same >> means that would be used to research any other Civil >> War veteran.
Now, following up, I sent a message on 2/20/2000 to a fellow SUVCW member, who is knowledgeable concerning the G.A.R., and asked him the following:
>> If someone has a marker on their grave stating "G.A.R.," >> this obviously signifies the deceased was a member of >> that organization. But my question is: Is there a >> membership form that prospective members had to fill out >> before they were approved for membership? And if so, is >> there a repository for these forms and/or applications? >> Would I be able to order copies of such >> forms/applications, should they exist, based on either my >> membership in the SUVCW or having been a relative of >> the deceased?
This was in his reply to me, received today, 2/24/2000:
>> Yes, there is a form, but they were kept at the Post level. >> Unless you could tell what Post he was in and be lucky >> enough to find that their records were deposited in some >> museum or archive, you will not find them. It is very sad, >> but true. First, I would check the state archives to see >> what they have. Beyond that, a country historian or >> museum may have something. It is also possible that the>> local town historical society or library may have something.
So, in conclusion, I'm not sure what the nearest G.A.R. Post would have been to the Highland Park, MI area, but researching this would be the next step in determining whether or not the records for that particular Post still exist.
Sorry this wasn't more helpful, but I thought I would pass this along as an FYI....
Subj: RE: Ridgeway - Clark - Morris - MillerDate: 02/28/2000 11:12:24 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: Nanticoke9@ ('Nanticoke9@'), RWahoor@ (RWahoor@), hmuncey@ (hmuncey@), LFREIDA15@ (LFREIDA15@)CC: calexeditor@ (Deborah Cavel-Greant), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Celeste.
The Julia Clark-Morris that I know of, was born 1843 in Indian River, Sussex County. She married Robert Morris (b. 1838, Laurel, Sussex Co.). I do not know of them having a child named Edward. The only children's names I have for them are: Oscar Burton Morris (16 Sep 1872 - 19 May 1962) Carlos Morris (1881 - 1958) George R. Morris (???? - ????) Emma Morris (???? - ????) Clara Preston Morris (???? - ????) Steven Morris (???? - ????) Anna Morris (???? - ????) Mary Agnes Morris (???? - ????) (Not to be confused with the Mary Agnes Morris, daughter of Oscar Burton Morris).
Other than spouses of some of the above, I have no more information on this family. However, if this is the same Julia (and it appears to be so), then I show her brother Nathaniel as having children named: Enos Clark (married Susie Carey) Hattie Clark (married a Mosley) David Clark
Hattie could be the Hettie on your list, and Enos could be Neonas. David could have been out of the household already.
I don't have the names of any siblings of Julia except for Nathaniel and Wit (no info on Wit), so I am unable to assist on the Ridgeway connections, although I am very much interested.
I have no info on Eunice Ridgeway Sockum's parents.
Hope this helps. Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----From: Nanticoke9@ [SMTP:Nanticoke9@]Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2000 4:32 PMTo: RWahoor@; hmuncey@; LFREIDA15@Cc: Deborah Cavel-Greant; John C. CarterSubject: Ridgeway - Clark - Morris - Miller
Hopefully one of you can provide clarification on the Ridgeway surname.
The 1850 Sussex Lewes & Rehobeth Hundred census reflects:
Nathaniel Clark, age 56 mulatto Unicey 50 John 20 Bridgette 18 Hetty 15 George 14 Neonas 11 (this is a male; name was not clear on record) Unicey 7 John Ridgeway 73 Edward Morris 4
I believe this Nathaniel Clark to be the son of the Thomas Clark who marriedElizabeth Morris (father of Whittington Clark, Lavenia Harmon, ComfortMiller, Elizabeth Ridgeway, John Clark). Now, can it be assumed that theJohn Ridgeway reflected is Unicey's father? Since I am assuming thisNathaniel Clark to be the son of Thomas, I also assume that Edward Morris isNathaniel's sister's child, Julia Clark-Morris (anyone have birth or deathdates for Julia? what Morris did she marry?)
Could this same John Ridgeway be the husband of Nathaniel's sister,Elizabeth? Is it known which Miller Comfort married?
Further, Levin Sockum is said to have married a Eunice Ridgeway. In the 1850Indian River census she is reflected as 37 years of age approximating herbirth year to be 1813. Have her parents been identified?
Celeste
Subj: RE: Ridgeway - Clark - Morris - MillerDate: 02/29/2000 7:01:16 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: Nanticoke9@ ('Nanticoke9@'), RWahoor@ (RWahoor@), hmuncey@ (hmuncey@), LFREIDA15@ (LFREIDA15@)CC: calexeditor@ (calexeditor@), AquaBetty@ (AquaBetty@)
Hi, Celeste. No, in fact I did not even know her father WAS Thomas until I received that info from you. All I knew is that Julia had brothers named Wit and Nathaniel. (And the story about Julia's mother--name unknown--who was described as the Indian "heathen" woman who was killed having been thrown from a horse, and that she typically rode bareback. I had relayed this story in an earlier message). John
-----Original Message-----From: Nanticoke9@ [SMTP:Nanticoke9@]Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 11:03 PMTo: spiff@; RWahoor@; hmuncey@; LFREIDA15@Cc: calexeditor@; AquaBetty@Subject: Re: Ridgeway - Clark - Morris - Miller
John:
Any estimation or known date as to when Julia's father, Thomas Clark, died? Did he reside in Sussex or Kent County?
Celeste
Subj: RE: ArchersDate: 03/05/2000 1:56:04 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: DRMVP@ ('Dr. m. v. Perry')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), seen1@worldnet. ('Seeney, Chuck')
Hi, Ginnie. Thanks for the information, and sorry for the late response. I just wanted to confirm that your mother's name was Mildred Brown (aka Milma Flemming). I had received info from Chuck that her name was Mildred Rhone, and I just want to make sure I have the data entered correctly. Also, I'm assuming that the "Mildred Virginia" is yourself...? Thanks, John P.S. Is the Connie Mack you speak of the same as the U.S. Senator from Florida?
-----Original Message-----From: Dr. m. v. Perry [SMTP:DRMVP@]Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 6:57 AMTo: AquaBetty@Cc: spiff@Subject:
Received your e-mail and attachments. I found Lola Mae. There is a correction needed in generation 2:Isaac C Archer, Sr.'s middle name, was Claibourne, not "Connie". Connie was my Dad who was named after my grand-dad's idol, Connie Mack. Isaac C. Jr. married Louella Harris and had one son, Robert Madison Archer. Cornelius "Connie" Bancroft Archer married Mildred Brown (Birth certificate name--Milma Flemming) and had 3 children who lived-- Richard Bancroft, Mildred Virginia, and Laurence Frederick.Thanks for all the information. I appreciate all of you and your hard work.Ginnieaka The Docta
Subj: RE: Joseph Mosley & Alberta CarneyDate: 03/05/2000 3:03:27 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Just a couple of notes:
-----
1. Regarding:>> --Our Fork Branch Cemetery records have 15 May.>> Have you accepted 15 May or still have a question.>> We would have to look at the stone again.
I haven't been able to determine which date is correct. But I have entered both dates into my file, as the newer versions of FTM allow conflicting ("alternate") entries, and can list sources for each. Whenever someone gets a chance to verify, I can eliminate the bad date at that time. No rush.
-----
2. While re-going-over #6 below, I was browsing through your on-line family file for Laura's family, at this site:
tm#2742
...and noticed that it states "Barbara Mosley is printed as #248" and "Constance Mosley is printed as #249." I'm not sure what this "printed as..." phrase means. the "#248" and "#249" appear as hyperlinks, but when I click on them, it takes me to an error page stating "Document not found." I just thought I would let you know.
Thanks! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: RidgwayDate: 03/05/2000 8:57:38 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')CC: JSammbird@ ('JSammbird@')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hello, all.
On Thursday, January 13th, Lorraine Johnson Gregg wrote:
>> Sarah Ridgway, dau of Tillman and Sina Ridgway>> m Alfred Wilbank Ridgway, son of William and>> Deborah Ridgway. Alfred and Sarah's son>> Charles H. m Emily Miller and they were parents>> of Mazzie, Rebecka, Alfred and Letishia (Lettie)>> Ridgway.
Then, on Sunday, January 30th, I wrote:
>> Do you know who these four children married?>> (Mazzie, Rebecka, Alfred and Letishia).>> Is this Letishia (Lettie) any connection to the>> Leticia Ridgeway who married Enos Pierce Jr.?>> (If not, do you know who the parents were of Enos'>> wife Leticia?)
Then, on Monday, January 31st, JoAnne Sammons wrote:
>> This Letisha (Lettie) Theresa Ridgway married Oscar>> Perkins Sammons at Cheswold, DE on May 3, 1920.>> She was born Oct. 10, 1902, Kent Co., Delaware.>> She died Dec. 3, 1985 in Bridgeton, NJ and was>> buried at Greenwood Memorial Park, Millville, NJ.>> Oscar died 1961 at Cheswold, DE and is buried at>> Fork Branch. His parents were Isaac L. Sammons, Sr.>> and Rebecca Clark. Isaac and Rebecca were never>> married. Lettie and Oscar are my husband's>> (Alfred O. Sammons) grandparents.
And now:
JoAnne: Sorry to be so late in responding to this, but I had a couple of questions: 1. Thanks for the information that this Lettie (Letisha) Ridgway was married to Oscar Perkins Sammons. When I went to enter this into my database, I found that I did indeed already have Oscar input, with a wife named Lettie _____, so all I had to do was "merge" the two Letties together as being one-and-the-same. However, I then noticed that I showed Oscar's wife Lettie to have a second spouse, named Odis Sammons, son of William Garfield Sammons and Ella Durham. (I also show that Odis was previously married to Hazel Jackson). Is this correct? Did Lettie Ridgway marry Odis Sammons after (the death of?) Oscar P. Sammons?
2. Is it certain that Isaac's middle initial was L? Someone had previously given it as S. (Does this mean that Isaac & Rebecca's son Isaac was Isaac L. Jr., then?
3. Is your husband Alfred O. Sammons the son of Alfred Sammons (in turn the son of Oscar & Lettie)? Does his father also have the middle initial O (thus Jr. & Sr.)?
4. Also, on Feb 1st, you wrote:>> Lettie Ridgway's two sisters - Mazzie never married.>> Rebecca was married to John L. Turpin. Lettie's brother,>> Alfred, died at a very young age. ....Do you know if Rebecca and John Turpin had any children?
5. Do you have the birth dates and death dates for Charles H. Ridgway and Emily Miller? (Parents of Lettie, Mazzie, Rebecca & Alfred).
6. (Question to everyone): Does anyone have information as to the spouses' names, etc. for Charles H. Ridgway's siblings: Elizabeth (b. ca. 1860), George (b. ca. 1861), Melinda (b. ca. 1867) (married _____ Goldsborough), Wilhemina (b. 25 May 1871), Ann Elizabeth (b. 08 Jul 1877), Susan (b. 11 Apr 1880) (married _____ Harmon), Estella (b. 25 Jun 1882), or Sadie Bell (twin, also b. 25 Jun 1882)? Also, I would be interested in info pertaining to the children of any of these. (I haven't listed the other siblings, for which I already have info: Walter Proctor Ridgway Sr. (b. 23 Sep 1867) (married Rhoda E. Palmer) and Roseannah / Rose Ella Ridgway (b. 02 Apr 1875) (described as "permanently afflicted with spine disease"). (Ray & Betty: You also have a sibling "Matlida" on the website. Where did you obtain this name?)
Thanks very much for your help!! Sincerely, John
Subj: RE: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of DoverDate: 03/05/2000 11:15:52 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@'), JSammbird@ ('JSammbird@')
Hi, Ray & Betty, and JoAnne.
I had a couple of questions about the obituary attached in the message below.
1. How could Millie have had a surviving grandson with the last name Foraker (her own maiden name)? Weren't all of her children named Sammons? Or was there another pre-deceased child not mentioned?
2. Who is the granddaughter Kaylinn Rodriguez the daughter of?
3. Do we know what the correct spelling of Krammer vs. Kramer is? It's listed both ways in the obituary.
Thanks again! John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 12:34 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover
In a message dated 01/30/2000 9:16:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,spiff@ writes:
>
Yes. [See below]
-----------------------------
Subj: Re: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of DoverDate: 99-09-18From: JSammbird (JoAnne)To:LFREIDA 15
Glendon Sammons is the son of William (deceased) and Sarah Eunice Sammons.
William is Al's uncle on his mother's side. He and Al's mother, Millie, werebrother and sister.
Glendon is Al's cousin. Some of his sisters are Betty Seeney, CarmellaStanton.
-------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 12:04 PMTo: spiff@; psam@; LFREIDA15@; Wicomicowm@; wahoor@Subject: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover
Hi all,
Is Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover, mentioned in the obit below, the son of Charles (b 1923) and Esther Glendora (Hughes) Sammons?
Mildred Helen 'Millie' Sammons, 53
DOVER - Mildred Helen ''Millie'' Sammons of Dover died Monday, Sept. 13,1999, in Kent General Hospital, Dover. She was 53. Mrs. Sammons was born onSept. 23, 1945, the daughter of Franklin and Mildred Collins Foraker.
She worked as a nursing attendent at the Delaware Home for the ChronicallyIll, Smyrna, retiring in 1991. Mrs. Sammons loved to collect angels.
She is survived by her husband, Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover; two sons,Glendon Sammons Jr. and William Sammons, both of Dover; two daughters, MazieKrammer and her husband, Todd, of Magnolia, and Sarah Sammons of Dover; two grandsons, Jason Foraker and Will Krammer, both of Magnolia; and threegranddaughters, Kaylinn Rodriquez of Marydel, Md., Paige Kramer and MandyKramer, both of Dover.
Service will be 11 a.m. Saturday at Immanuel United Union Methodist Church, Cheswold, where friends may call one hour prior to service. Burial will be in the church cemetery. Instead of flowers, family suggests contributionsto: American Heart Association, 625 South State St., Dover, DE 19901.
---------
B&R
Subj: RE: Mary Priscilla Ridgeway MosleyDate: 03/05/2000 11:16:10 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: EFoster177@ ('EFoster177@')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hello, Jean (and Ray & Betty).
Wow. I had put off looking at the message attached below for so long, because I was afraid it would fry my brain. :-) However, once I got into it, I saw that everything was very clearly laid out, and efficiently explained. I want to thank-you, Jean, very much for organizing all the details and references so carefully. I have re-organized the information in my database based upon your data, and everything has become much clearer.
Items of note:
1. Have we been able to verify that Mary Priscilla's first husband's (the Johnson) was Alexander (or "Zeb")? Or is this still not substantiated?
2. I have thrown out Susan Brown's name entirely, as there seems to be no evidence to support her existence. [ Poor Susan! :-) ]
3. Do we have any references documenting Mary Priscilla also being known as Ridgeway (besides being known as Jack)?
4. Interestingly enough, there was a Jeremiah Ridgeway, son of Tilghman Ridg(e)way, and this Tilghman was also known as Tilghman Jack. But this Jeremiah was born ca. 1865, and was not old enough to be the father of Mary Priscilla, since she was born ca. 1850. However, since my experience of the "aka-name" Jack being substituted for Ridgeway has always been confined to those Ridgeways connected to Tilghman, I can't help but wonder if there is a connection, such as the elder Jeremiah being possibly a brother of Tilghman, and thus the younger Jeremiah possibly being named for an uncle...? Pure speculation at this point....
5. The Civil War record you cited for Jeremiah Jack was very interesting! What was your reason for searching the Civil War muster rolls for his name? Had you heard that "our" Jeremiah Jack was supposedly a Civil War veteran? Or was this a "just-for-the-heck-of-it" search? I've had experience in ordering Civil War records from the National Archives, and am interested in ordering these. I'm just curious if we feel there's a chance of connection.
OK, that's all for now.
Again, thank-you VERY much for your well-written layout of data. Take care, John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: Mary Priscilla Ridgeway Mosley.Date: 03/06/2000 12:03:26 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: aquabetty@Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@, spiff@
From: aquabetty@
In a message dated 03/05/2000 11:16:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, spiff@ writes:
>
Here is a transcription of a letter William Davis of Millsboro sent to Sandy Marshall. She kindly sent us a Xerox of the letter. This kind of sheds a bit more light on the Jack name (at the bottom of the letter), but, as so much of our information, lacks documentation.
********
Sandy:
You might want to review the law that was enacted in 1903 by the General Assembly entitled, “An Act to Better Establish the Identity of a Race of People Known as the Offspring of the Nanticoke Indians,” and how a person should go about establishing proof of his Indian ancestry.
Bill Davis
As to the Whittington Johnson’s ancestry ---- I haven’t had time to research as much as I would like. But I’ll get it someday soon.
Right now Don’s (Ahshapanek) mother (Mabel Clark--who married my mother’s brother “Leon”) told me that her grandmother, Victoria Hood, was the great-granddaughter of Robin Hood. You probably are fully aware of this but in 1742 Maryland officials signed a treaty with the following Indian groups.
...........Group.......................................Signed by
Indian River Indians....................Tom Hill and Robert --- (Xerox off the page)Locust Neck Indians..................Robin Hood and Hopping SamNanticokes on Broad Creek........Simon and Captain JohnNanticokes on Chicacoan...........John Coursey and Chinehopper
Aunt Mabel also said that her grandmother Victoria Hood’s mother was Elizabeth Wright--a Mohawk Indian who migrated here from what is now Rhode Island. In order to come here she had to get permission from the colonies involved. In her old age she lived with Aunt Mable’s mother Airrie (Harmon) Clark.
Also that Victoria Hood had a brother Jack Hood and that our Aunt Carrie who married John Sockum was a half sister to Jack Hood.
(following are comments added to a list of Mary Priscilla's children by Bill Davis. We had sent the list to Sandy, who forwarded it by snail to Bill Davis):
Regarding Mary Priscilla Ridgeway: her sister was Elizabeth Ridgeway, her brother-in-law was Robert (Bob) Sammons (Salmons), her other sisters were Aunt Hester and Aunt Teen (nickname). I knew their sons who lived about a mile from me.
Mary Priscilla Ridgeway’s father was Jeremiah “Jack” (Ridgeway, Rigware, etc.) and her mother was Ellizee Barker. “Hearsay” is that Ellizee Barker was 1/2 white and 1/2 Indian and that her father was Jerry Jack (a full-blooded Indian) and her mother was an Irish indentured servant who came over on a boat to serve her indenture. Also, that Jeremiah Jack’s father was a Ridgeway and mother is unknown but that his surname came from his wife’s father. Somewhere along the line the “Jack” designation became Ridgeway!
Mary Priscilla Ridgeway’s first husband was Alec Johnson, her 2nd husband was Alexander Mosley. Recent hearsay info was that sometime later she either married or lived with “Barth” Thompson.
*******
-------------------------------------------Aquabetty@
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: PhotosDate: 03/14/2000 6:49:19 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
Hi, Betty & Ray. Perhaps for those people on the family descendancy reports for which there is a photo, you could just make some type of standard notation that a photo exists ("on the Mitsawokett photo page" or something to that effect). Then, on the actual photo page, you could just arrange them alphabetically or whatever would be easiest. You'd probably want to list the women with their full (maiden) name included, but not sure if it would be best to alphabetize them by the maiden name or the married name.... Also, would it be helpful on the photo page to include a notation of who the parents were (or spouse) of that particular person, in case someone was just browsing through the photo page (without having been referred there by the descendancy reports), and saw a photo and wondered how that person was connected....? Just some thoughts.... Thanks! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] P.S. RE: PhotosDate: 03/14/2000 6:53:38 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
From: "John C. Carter"
P.S. Will there be a notation as to who the owner is of the original photo? I'm wondering whether this might be of interest, in case someone would like to request (at their cost or whatever) a copy of the photograph from the owner...? (Or, will users be able to "copy & paste", i.e. download, copies of the photos from the website into their computers? Not sure if this should be a concern....??) Thanks, John
Subj: RE: some moreDate: 03/14/2000 8:14:52 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: DRMVP@ ('Dr. m. v. Perry')CC: AquaBetty@ (AquaBetty@), seen1@worldnet. ('Seeney, Chuck')
Hi, Ginnie. Thanks for the message. Glad you added your input on the Deborah vs. Harriett thing. I will send you an e-mail chain where this was discussed previously. (Your Aunt Sarah's son Bill Seeney was visiting with Chuck back in August, and they shared info back & forth, and passed it along to a couple of us). Thanks! John
-----Original Message-----From: Dr. m. v. Perry [SMTP:DRMVP@]Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 3:42 PMTo: Chuck SeeneyCc: spiff@; AquaBetty@Subject: some more
Hi Chuck-- I heard from Aunt Sarah yesterday. I had sent her a copy of the descendancy report that AquaBetty sent me. Aunt Sarah says this; "My grandmother on Mom's (Lola Ridgeway) side was named Deborah not Harriet. Harriet was my father's mother. And my father was never called 'Connie', just your (my) Dad."As I gather more I'll send more...The Docta
Subj: RE: Harriett Hughes vs. Deborah HughesDate: 03/14/2000 8:18:15 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: DRMVP@ ('DRMVP@')CC: RWahoor@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine'), seen1@worldnet. ('Seeney, Chuck'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ginnie.
Below is the e-mail chain I mentioned, where Chuck (and Bill) and I had previously discussed whether Lola Ridgeway Archer's mother was HARRIETT Hughes Ridgeway or DEBORAH Hughes Ridgeway. Your info and Chuck's info has come from the same place: Bill's mother, Sarah Archer Seeney, daughter of Lola (1883-1970) and Isaac Claiborne Archer.
(To read the messages in sequence, start at the bottom and read "upward").
I am cc'ing a couple of other cousins, from whom the HARRIETT reference came from.
Lorraine and/or Rose: Can you check your notes for the 1880 census to verify if it was HARRIETT or DEBORAH who was the 11-year-old daughter in the household? Or do you have any other sources to clarify? This is also the mother of Earl Jeremiah Ridgeway, Sr (1885-1941), husband of Sarah Virginia Carter.
I had thought at first that Bill's (and Ginnie's) source had gotten mixed-up, and switched Lola's mother's name (HARRIETT) with Lola's Grandmother's name (DEBORAH), because Lola's maternal grandmother was Deborah Cork Hughes, wife of Perry Hughes. But I guess Sarah could be expected to be certain of her own grandmother's name, so it sounds like we might have it wrong.
Lorraine: The segment from you imbedded in the message just below, was in a message you sent to me on October 22, 1998. On Oct 25, 1998, you also wrote the following:
>> Harriet Hughes m Earl Ridgeway (I'm not clear on this,>> my notes, one place I have Earl, another Jeremiah)>> Probably you should go with what Rose has.>> (Jeremiah) I can't find anything else w/Earl on it as>> the husband of Harriet Hughes.
Anything you have that might help clear up with mystery would be appreciated!
Thanks, everyone, for your help! John
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Sunday, August 08, 1999 9:49 PMTo: 'Charles Seeney'Subject: RE: My Ridgeway Cousins
Hi, Chuck. Thanks for the message and the attachment. I was planning to respond to your message from Friday, but hadn't gotten a chance yet. I've attached a file of the same family, from the info that I had. As you can see, some of our information differs. A few notable examples:
1. You have Jeremiah Ridgeway as born ca. 1840, and as married to DEBORAH Hughes. I had him as born ca. 1865, and as married to HARRIETT Hughes, daughter of Deborah Cork Hughes (and John Hughes).
< snip >
Actually, I'd never done too much work on this branch of the family, so it's not surprising that I have so little. Most of the information I have came from Rose Marie Ridgeway, or Lorraine Johnson Gregg. They are the ones who gave me the dates on Jeremiah and Harriett. Where did you obtain your date info?
I do have information regarding the parents, etc of Harriett Hughes, if you'd like that. But, first of all, I guess we need to determine if her name was really Harriett, or Deborah.... I just checked my records, and this info on the Hughes' was given to me by Lorraine Johnson Gregg from the Kent County census:
1880 Census KCHughes John, age 48, farmer " Deborah, age 42, wife nee Cork Hester, age 21 dau Benjamin, age 19, son ( m Joeanne Gould Andrew, age 17, son ( m Mary Emma Pierce John, age 13, son ( m Mary Coombs Harriet, age 11 dau ( m [Jeremiah] Ridgway Edward, age 7, son ( m Letishia (Lettie) Johnson Perry, age 4, son ( m Sallie Jackson James age 1, son ( m Harriet Durham, dau of Caroline Carney, Daniel Durham
Perhaps somehow your source got Harriett's mother's name Deborah substituted for Harriett's as the wife of Jeremiah?
< snip >
Anyway, I'd be interested to hear your comments. Thanks!! John
-----Original Message-----From: Charles Seeney [SMTP:seen1@worldnet.]Sent: Saturday, August 07, 1999 6:18 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: My Ridgeway Cousins
Hi John..................
My cousin and I pieced together our Ridgeway connection, going back to a Jeremiahwho was born around 1840 to 1850.
< snip >
The file is attached.
Chuck (OK) Seeney
>
-----Original Message-----From: Charles Seeney [SMTP:seen1@worldnet.]Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 6:13 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: My Ridgeway Cousins
Hi John................
I was looking at the work you did for the Mitsawokett site. I showed the Ridgewaydata to my cousin who is visiting us.
The information you have is correct. This is something that occurred to me that youmight not have. My cousin is William Seeney, son of Richard Seeney, my father'sbrother. His mother is Sarah (Archer) Seeney, daughter of Lola (Ridgeway) Archer.The Ridgeway's and Seeney's seem to cross many times.
Bill didn't recongize names, but he's going to ask his mother.
Chuck (OK) Seeney
Subj: RE: Harriett Hughes vs. Deborah HughesDate: 03/15/2000 11:07:36 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: DRMVP@ ('DRMVP@')CC: RWahoor@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie'), seen1@worldnet. ('Seeney, Chuck'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ginnie. In response to my message yesterday, Lorraine sent the reply below. This is perplexing. Do you think there's any possible way that your Aunt Sarah may have mixed up her grandmother's name with her great-grandmother's name? Or could her grandmother have been known my BOTH names? Harriett "Deborah" Hughes, for instance? Or could the census-taker have made an error? But how does one mix up Harriett with Deborah? A mystery is afoot.... John
-----Original Message-----From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 9:12 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: 1880 Census Kent County
John,
I checked the original 1880 Census, what I have sent you is exactly the wayit reads, with the exception of who they m/or parents.Rose could answer your other questions better than I.
Lorraine
Subj: My FatherDate: 03/17/2000 1:10:24 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn'), Earl8Ball@ ('Lewallen, Earl'), RWahoor@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie'), ned@ ('Heite, Ned'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine'), seen1@worldnet. ('Seeney, Chuck'), dhicks@ ('Hicks, David'), TNGirl@ ('TNGirl@'), PThum@ ('PThum@'), blewis@ ('blewis@'), DRMVP@ ('DRMVP@')
Hello, all. I just wanted to let you know that I will be out of state for a few days, as I received word today (Thursday, March 16th) that my father passed away in Colorado. His heart had been bad for a few years, and finally gave out after a sudden spell two days ago. No one in the family knew he was in the hospital until after he had passed, because he had initially refused to allow the hospital to call. When he finally gave in around 9:00am today and gave them permission to call, they checked his wallet for telephone numbers but there were none, and he couldn't remember them. By the time a friend gained access to his home and retrieved the numbers, he had passed away (around 11:00am). Thank-you very much for your understanding, and I will respond to those of you to whom I owe replies after I return. Sincerely, John
Subj: FW: HeineggDate: 03/27/2000 7:50:58 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: lheite@eldhorn.is ('Heite, Louise'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn'), 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
For your info. (Strange, I haven't corresponded with Heinegg since December of 1998, and all of a sudden he sends me a message!) John
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Monday, March 27, 2000 7:50 PMTo: 'Paul Heinegg'Subject: RE: Carty
Hi, Paul. Thanks very much for the message. I'm very sorry for such a late reply, but my father passed away on March 16th, and I had to travel to Colorado for arrangements, services, etc. I have been back a few days, and have been trying to get caught up with things. What is the URL of the site you describe? I have the URL for this site, but am not sure if that's the one you're referring to:
Thanks again! Sincerely, John
John C. Carter
Ridgeway, Wyatt
-----Original Message-----From: Paul Heinegg [SMTP:p.heinegg@worldnet.]Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2000 7:31 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Carty
Hi John. I've added new Carty, Munt (Munts?), and Kersey info to my sitefrom the Talbot County Court records. I've also included the abstracts fromthe Talbot County Court on my web site under Colonial Tax Lists, CensusRecords, etc.
Found an interesting case of Catherine Parsons, perhaps a sister of JohnParsons of Sussex County, Delaware. She had a child by William Asquash whowas one of the Choptank Indians who sold land in Dorchester County about1727.Paul
Subj: RE: GouldDate: 03/27/2000 10:04:38 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@'), brauna@ (brauna@)CC: Bephi@ (Bephi@)
Hi, Betty & Ray, and all.... Yes, I have a photocopy of the complete book by William & Theophilus Steward. Is there anything in particular you are wanting looked up in it? Thanks, John P.S. I have been in touch with Benjamin Gould, and will probably eventually order his book as well, but just haven't gotten around to it yet.
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 11:49 AMTo: brauna@Cc: spiff@; Bephi@Subject: Fwd: Gould
Hi Theo, Bev, John,
Theo Braunskill had asked about Benjamin Gould. Thanks, Bev. John, you hadreplied to the Sept. message in Nov. in which you suggested "the "Gouldtown"book by William & Theophilus Steward." Ever come across it?
B&R
In a message dated 03/20/2000 8:49:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bephi writes:
>
Subj: Re: GouldDate: 03/28/2000 1:01:54 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 03/27/2000 10:04:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, spiff@ writes:
>
We would like to obtain a copy, too. Please fill us in about whom to contact. And welcome back after your sad, but inevitable, trip.
Subj: RE: GouldDate: 03/28/2000 6:59:50 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Thanks for the message.
Regarding:
>
We would like to obtain a copy, too. Please fill us in about whom tocontact. And welcome back after your sad, but inevitable, trip.
...I sent you a flyer in today's mail, for ordering the book entitled "The Genealogy of Ellen Gould Harmon White." But now I see by your note above that you were speaking of the William & Theophilus Steward book. I can't remember if I got my photocopy of it by making a copy of Debbie Unger's, or whether I borrowed a copy through inter-library loan and copied it. I checked , but didn't see it there. (It's obviously out-of-print, but I think they sell used books, too). You should be able to get a copy through inter-library loan. I would offer to photocopy my photocopy, but it seems kind of poor quality already--it will only get worse if I re-copy it. Actually, looking at it now, I'm sure I didn't photocopy this--someone must have photocopied it and sent it to me (Debbie, perhaps??) The method / manner in which this was copied is different than I would have done. Maybe I'll search around for some book-search sites on the web.... John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 1:02 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Gould
In a message dated 03/27/2000 10:04:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,spiff@ writes:
>
We would like to obtain a copy, too. Please fill us in about whom tocontact. And welcome back after your sad, but inevitable, trip.
Subj: RE: GouldDate: 03/28/2000 7:00:28 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@'), brauna@ ('brauna@')CC: Bephi@ ('Bephi@')
Hi, all. In re-reading my message below, I see that I typed too quickly. I meant to say I had been in touch with Charles E. Dudley (the author of the Ellen Gould Harmon White book), not with Benjamin Gould! D'oh! John
Subj: Gouldtown bookDate: 03/28/2000 7:17:41 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Took a few minutes searching through a few websites, but here's a cloth-cover reprint available:
st&fo=1&pm=^ph=2^tn=gouldtown
The Book:Steward, William & Theophilus G. Gouldtown: A Very Remarkable Settlement of Ancientt Date: Studies of Some Sturdy Examples of the Simple Life, Together with Sketches of Early Colonial History of Cumberland County and Southern New Jersey and Some Early Genealogical Records Bridgeton, NJ: Fairfield Township Board of Education, 1994 Cloth. Very Good//. over 7?" - 9?" Tall. Reprint of the 1913 local history; 221 pp. Book # 000166 US$ 22.00The Seller:The Constant Reader , 238 South Broadway , Albert Lea , MN , U.S.A. , 56007 Phone 507-373-6512 , Email glhaukoos@ ... A member of UMBA See their homepage here!
Subj: Weslager book searchDate: 03/28/2000 7:23:42 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Also very interesting listings under Weslager....
*¤cy=USD&mode=basic&st=sr&ac=qr
Subj: RE: Charles E. DudleyDate: 03/29/2000 6:55:01 AM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi. Just a word of warning: I e-mailed him about the book also, but never received a response. It was only after I wrote him a letter (with a self-addressed stamped envelope) that he replied. John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2000 11:54 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Gould
In a message dated 03/28/2000 7:00:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,spiff@ writes:
>
We e-mailed him a day ago about the book. Waiting for a reply.
Subj: RE: John A CarneyDate: 03/30/2000 10:52:38 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@'), Ackressman@ ('Ackressman@')
Hi, Betty & Ray, and Annabelle.
Thanks for the message. (Annabelle--are you the same Annabelle Kressman who used to be associated with our research group back in late 1998, who used the e-mail address Hank2732@?)
Whereas I have heard this "came over from Ireland" story before, pertaining to more than one member of our ancestral community (usually referring to a Carney, however**), I have doubts as to its authenticity. It seems certain it's not the case here, (although the legend could have roots from somewhere further back in the past. Or, it could just be a "romantic" notion that got conjured up along the way in some of these families, similar to the Spanish/Moorish-prince-and-Indian-princess tales).
John A. (aka "Kinsey") Carney (14 Oct 1851-16 Mar 1939), husband of Wilhemina A. Durham, was, according to the Carty-Wyatt Bible, the son of Shary Carney and Mary Jane Carty. Shary Carney (b. ca. 1828) has also been referred to as "Shadrach," "Shadrack," and "Shade," and (since he also had a son named Shadrack) he may have been Shadrack, Sr. Shary & Mary Jane were married 04 Sep 1849--this is also in the Carty-Wyatt Bible.
(Betty & Ray: This next couple of paragraphs are probably new to you, as I have been waiting to further document the material before posting it to the website):
Shary Carney was supposedly the son of a John Carney, born ca. 1798, and his wife Louisa, who was born ca. 1806 in Maryland.
Annabelle, perhaps this John Carney is the John Carney of your family's story, and a generation got skipped in the story. However, I don't think he came over from Ireland, either, because it appears that he was in turn the son of a Robert Carney, Sr. who died ca. 06 Jan 1824 (date of his will). This will has been discovered by a fellow researcher, and it provides the names of Robert's wife Elizabeth, sons James, Thomas, Robert (the one born 1815, who married Phebe), Miller and John (above), and daughters Rachel Sisco and Debreaux Miller.
As I mentioned, this lineage still needs to be substantiated to document the connections.
I hope this helps, and I would be very interested in any comments or questions you might have.
Oh, in case you don't have it, my records indicate that Wilhemina A. Durham was the daughter of William Durham (ca. 1818 - 1858) and Mahala Songo?/Durham? (ca. 1822 - ____).
Thanks, John
** P.S. I'd have to do some checking to make sure, but I seem to remember that Weslager's "Delaware's Forgotten Folk" mentioned a claim by Clem Carney that his father Robert Carney had come from Ireland. But evidence has indicated that this Robert was a son of James/Martin Carney and Sally Songo (here in America, not in Ireland). This James/Martin was in turn supposedly the son James listed in the will of the same Robert & Elizabeth Carney mentioned above. While perhaps there is an Irish origin to the as-yet-unknown progenitor of this family, why do the family tales seem to target a much-too-recent ancestor as the Irish immigrant??
Subj: Re: John A CarneyDate: 03/30/2000 11:14:47 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
File: Forgfolk.doc (595456 bytes)DL Time (50000 bps): < 3 minutes
In a message dated 03/30/2000 10:52:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, spiff@ writes:
> John Morgan>> Enlisted on 8/27/63 as a Private.>> On 8/27/63 he Substitute into "G" Co. US CT 6th Infantry>> Mustered Out on 9/20/65
I gave the archivist this information as well, and she said she would check further into it.
Alas, I heard back from her on Friday, and they were still unable to find anything pertaining to our John H. Morgan.
I am sorry to relay such unfulfilling news, but wanted to pass along this information to the group, in case anyone else had any intent on trying to obtain John H. Morgan's military/pension records. Also, I believe I had told some of you some time ago that I was pursuing this issue, and I wanted to provide an update.
It's very depressing to pursue something for so long, only to come upon brick walls, over and over. But I guess this is par for the course, considering we also have occasions of wonderful luck in our research from time to time as well.
Anyway, I would be happy to hear any comments or suggestions. Thanks, John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] One more Civil War veteran!Date: 04/23/2000 12:24:22 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
Hello again.
In the list of Civil War veterans included in my last message, sent a few moments ago, I neglected to mention one other veteran who has been recently discussed in our group:
Miller Kearney, Co. A, 30th Michigan Infantry.
Sorry for the omission. John
Subj: RE: Carter FamilyDate: 05/07/2000 8:44:34 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: Watkins712@ (Watkins712@)CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hello, Mr. or Ms. Watkins (and Betty & Ray).
Betty & Ray are correct. The branch of Carters that we have worked on also came from Caroline County, MD. But I think I can add a little more than what Betty & Ray stated.
The George T. Carter mentioned was born as George T. Carty, and was a brother of my great-great-grandmother, Elizabeth Carty / Carter. Like your ancestor, they came from Caroline County, MD. (Elizabeth only had one child--my great-grandfather Hopewell U. Carter--and he was born out-of-wedlock and therefore went by his mother's last name. Elizabeth never married). Anyway, George and Elizabeth were two of at least seven children of William Carty and his wife (or common-law wife) Elizabeth Wyatt, also of Caroline County. Indications are (I need to check my proof) that William was in turn a son of James Carty, who was formerly known as McCarty, and perhaps migrated to Caroline County from Dorchester County, MD. So, you can see that the name evolved from McCarty to Carty to Carter.
I do not have an Alfred B. Carter (or Carty) in my database, but I'm guessing there's still a good chance of a connection, if we can determine who Alfred's father was. You gave the date of 1870--was this Alfred's birthdate? If so, when did he die? If it was into the 1900's there's a good chance there should have been a death certificate--have you acquired a copy of his death certificate to see if it lists his parents' names?
Here is some information on the early parts of my Carty / Carter family:
James McCarty, b. ca. 1770, d. bef. 18 Mar 1823 in Caroline County, MD. married perhaps? twice: to Barsheba Dean on 17 Aug 1792 in Dorchester Co, MD. to Sarah Walker on 18 Jun 1814 in Caroline Co, MD.
James' children included William Carty (b. ca. 1792), James Carty (Jr) (b. ca. 1799) and at least two more boys (names unknown) and five girls (names unknown).
James Jr. married also perhaps? twice: to Harriett Dyett on 23 May 1820 in Caroline Co, MD. to Hannah Wootens on 25 Oct 1823 in Caroline Co, MD.
(These marriages--James Sr and James Jr--are by no means certain. The later marriage in 1823 could have even been a younger James--perhaps a James the 3rd--son of James Jr or one of his brothers) -- (but not son of William because his son James was too young to marry in 1823).
I do not know the names of any of James Jr's children.
As for William (my ancestor):
William Carty, b. ca. 1792, d. 07 May 1867, was either the husband or the common-law (unmarried) husband of Elizabeth Wyatt, b. ca. 1789, d. 15 Jul 1864. They had the following children:
1. Rebecca Carty / Carter, b. 12 Jan 1813 2. James Carty, b. 25 Oct 1815 3. William Washington Carty / Carter, b. 15 Apr 1818 4. Elizabeth A. Carty / Carter, b. 20 Apr 1821 (my great-great-grandmother) 5. John A. Carty, b. 25 Dec 1823 6. Henrietta Carty / Carter, b. 25 May 1826 7. George Thomas Carty / Carter (also known as George Taft? Carty / Carter), b. 08 Mar 1827
1. Rebecca had one daughter, also born out of wedlock. Rebecca & daughter moved to Delaware. Rebecca never married. 2. James married Mary ______ on 20 Sep 1836. No further info. 3. William Washington married Sarah A. Morgan, and had children named: William Eugene "Gene," b. ca. Dec 1862 John N., b. ca. Oct 1864 Annie Elizabeth, b. ca. 1867 Elmira, b. ca. 1869 Jeanette, b. ca. 1872 James E. "Ed," b. ca. Oct 1862 Marion "Murrin," b. ca. Aug 1874 (some or all of William & Sarah's children were born in MD, but later moved to DE or NJ) 4. Elizabeth A., as previously mentioned, had one child out-of-wedlock: Hopewell U. Carter, b. 28 Jan 1857 (my great-grandfather) 5. John A. -- No further info. 6. Henrietta married James Morgan on 27 Mar 1848. Moved to Delaware. 7. George T. married Lena/Lina Mosley, and had children named: Emma E., b. ca. 1856 William, b. ca. 1857 Rosella, b. unknown George Washington, b. 26 Jan 1871 Sarah Virginia, b. ca. 1875 (some or all? children's descendants ended up in DE or NJ).
This is about all I have on the early Cartys / Carters. I hope it is of use to you. If you could trace Alfred back a little further, you might be able to tie in.
Good luck, and let me know if there's anything else I can assist with or provide. Thanks! John
John C. Carter
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 4:33 PMTo: Watkins712@Cc: spiff@Subject: Re: Carter Family
In a message dated 05/07/2000 9:21:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Watkins712writes:
>
We have, in concert with John C. Carter, traced lineages back to George T.Carter and his wife Lina Mosley of Caroline County, Maryland. They removed to Kent County, Delaware at some point. We have had no luck findingconnections to earlier Carter families in MD or DEL.
We are CCing this to John Carter to see if he can help you.
---------------------B&R TerryFamily History: "The Moors of Delaware" ---------------------
Subj: RE: Photo identification.Date: 05/09/2000 6:50:44 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. No, this is not a Carter at all. It is John Clayton Coker, son of Moses Coker and Mary Ann Dean. (Mary Ann, daughter of Robert B. Dean and Catherine Morgan). Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 1:03 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Photo identification.
Hi John,
We have lost the identity of the attached photo you sent. Is it Hopewell,son of Hopewell Umphrey?
Subj: Re: Carter FamilyDate: 05/10/2000 2:53:20 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: Watkins712To: spiff@, KarenKayeCCC: AquaBetty
In a message dated 5/7/00 5:44:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
> Who where the 7 brothers that predeceased her?
Then, also on May 22, Rose wrote:
>> Lewis Ridgway is the son of John Henry Ridgway and>> Wilamina Minnie Durham. Sarah was their daughter,>> who we called Cynitha also. Lewis brothers and>> sisters were: (Johns Henry Ridgway & Wilamina>> Durham)
>> Gladys Ridgway md. Bing Pierce>> Margaret Maggie md. Charles Durham>> John H., Jr md. Ruth G. Wilson>> Minnie md. Elias A. Pierce, Sr.>> Lewis N. md. Cynitha Durham>> Frederick N. md. Mary Elizabeth Mosley>> Jeremiah md. Maude ?>> Beulah M md. Arthur Sammons>> Vincent R. md. Anna E. Durham>> McKinley md. ? - Buried Fork Branch>> Felix T. md. Thelma Brown>> Manford Sr. md. Mary Ann Robinson>> Tilghman D. "Fading Father" md. Hester Ann Cuff>> (All the children are deceased now.)
Now--back to the present-- I had a couple of questions:
1. The Cynthia Durham who married Lewis N. Ridgway-- Who were her parents? I'm wondering if she is the same as the Cynthia Durham, daughter of David Durham (b. ca. 1866) and Christina "Tene" Sammons (b. 1869)...? (I saw Betty & Ray asked about Cynthia in their 2nd post on May 22, but I couldn't find any reply regarding Cynthia).
2. You have Frederick's middle initial as "N," but I had "H." (Just checked Betty & Ray's info, and they have him as Frederick Harrison).
3. The Hester Ann Cuff who married Tilghman D. Ridgway-- Is she the same as the Hester Cuff who married Furman Gould, Jr.? (I don't have dates on her).
4. You mentioned "Sarah was their daughter, who we called Cynitha also." But, according to the info that Betty & Ray sent, Sarah was married to Ivy Carter, and a separate daughter Cynthia was married to _____ Smith. Are these two different daughters, or the same one who married twice?
John
Subj: RE: (your post) Ridgeway and Carter ~~ Mosley and JohnsonDate: 05/30/2000 10:43:43 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Had a few questions regarding the info you posted in Mitsawokett digest #416 (May 22-23). (I didn't think there were going to be so many questions, but they just kept popping up as I input the data into my file!)
---------------
RE:>> + 11 x Sylvester2 Ridgway or Jack, born abt 1856.>> He married Annie (---).
According to his tombstone in Fork Branch, Sylvester died 1934. (But it also lists his birth year as 1852 instead of 1856).
---------------
RE:>> + 12 xi Eliza Jane2 Ridgway or Jack, born Nov 1859.>> She married Peter Mosley.
Is there any info as to the ancestry of Peter?
---------------
RE:>> + 13 xii Sina2 Ridgway or Jack, born Nov 1859.>> She married George Mosley.
Is there any info as to the ancestry of George?
---------------
RE:>> + 16 xv Greensbury2 Ridgway or Jack (Sr.), born>> 4 Jul 1869 in Kent, Delaware; died 10 Jan 1944 in>> Cheswold, Kent, Delaware; buried in Immanuel>> Union United Methodist Church (Manship) Cemetery,>> Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. He married Sarah>> Virginia "Sallie" Durham.
I had his birthdate as "1867" per his tombstone. Where did you get the 04 Jul 1869 date?
---------------
RE:>> + 68 iv Beulah M.3 Ridgeway, born 1898;>> died 25 Jun 1926; buried 15 Jan 1926 in>> Fork Branch Cemetery, Dover, Kent, Delaware.>> She married (1) Arthur Charles Sammons;>> (2) (---) Sammons.
Poor Beulah! They buried her five months before she passed away! (Sorry, couldn't resist! Obviously, there's a mistake here somewhere).
---------------
RE:>> 70 vi Felix T.3 Ridgeway.
I have his birth date as ca. 1908, per Census records, 1920, Kent County, DE, dist 9, sheet 27a-b.
---------------
RE:>> 71 vii Margaret "Maggie"3 Ridgeway>> She married (1) Charles H. Durham,>> born May 1898
I have her birth date as ca. 1910, per Census records, 1920, Kent County, DE, dist 9, sheet 27a-b. Do we know any of the ancestry of Charles?
---------------
RE:>> + 72 viii Gladys3 Ridgeway.>> She married William H. Pierce.
Rose gave her husband's name as "Bing Pierce," (which is what she gave me back in 1998 as well). Do we know if "Bing" is a nickname for William H. Pierce?
---------------
RE:>> 74 x Manford N.3 Ridgeway.
I have his birth date as ca. 1914, per Census records, 1920, Kent County, DE, dist 9, sheet 27a-b.
---------------
RE:>> 75 xi Minnie3 Ridgeway.
I have her birth date as ca. 1906, per Census records, 1920, Kent County, DE, dist 9, sheet 27a-b.
---------------
RE:>> + 76 xii Vincent R.3 Ridgway.
I have his birth date as ca. 1902, per Census records, 1920, Kent County, DE, dist 9, sheet 27a-b.
---------------
Whew! That's all for now. I decided to stop before going into any of the Mosley stuff....
Take your time. (Also, I know I still have a couple of messages from you in my Inbox, that I need to respond to....)
Thanks! John P.S. Did you ever receive a reply from Rose concerning the Jeremiah & Margaret Mosley / Moore issue?
-----Original Message-----From: Mitsawokett@ [SMTP:Mitsawokett@]Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 3:23 AMTo: Mitsawokett@Subject: (Ridgeway/Jack) [Mitsawokett] Digest Number 416
Message: 1 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:01:58 EDT From: aquabetty@Subject: Re: Ridgeway and Carter ~~ Mosley and Johnson
In a message dated 05/22/2000 12:06:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,Nanticoke9@ writes:
>
Here's the lineage. Please tell us of needed corrections or addtions. Wedon't have the names of seven of Sarah's brothers. (If the e-mail processmesses up the presentation of the lineage, we will resend as an attachment.)
-----------
1. Tilghman1 Ridgway or Jack, born abt Aug 1815/19 in Delaware; died 15 Aug 1894 in Kent, Delaware, son of (---) Ridgway or Jack. He married Sina"Sinie" Mosley, born abt 1815/24 in Delaware; died 20 Apr 1895 in Delaware.
Children of Tilghman Ridgway or Jack and Sina "Sinie" Mosley were asfollows: 2 i Elizabeth2 Ridgway or Jack, born abt 1840 in Delaware. Shemarried unknown.+ 3 ii Matilda2 Ridgway or Jack, born abt 1841/44 in Millsboro, Sussex,Delaware; died 29 Jun 1913 in Cheswold, Kent, Delaware. She married HenryJohnson. 4 iii Timothy2 Ridgway or Jack, born abt 1842 in Delaware.+ 5 iv Tillman2 Ridgway or Jack (Jr.), born 9 Mar 1845; died 10 Nov1917; buried in Fork Branch Cemetery, Dover, Kent, Delaware. He marriedLouise (---).+ 6 v Sarah J.2 Ridgway or Jack, born 15 Apr 1847 in Delaware; died 22Apr 1919 in Dover, Kent, Delaware; buried 25 Apr 1919 in Fork BranchCemetery, Dover, Delaware. She married (1) Alfred Wilbank Ridgeway; (2)Daniel Coker.+ 7 vi Francis "Frank"2 Ridgway or Jack, born abt 1847 in Delaware. Hemarried Rebecca (---). 8 vii Susan2 Ridgway or Jack, born abt 1850 in Delaware.+ 9 viii Letisha "Letty"2 Ridgway or Jack, born abt 1852 in IndianRiver Hundred, Sussex, Delaware. She married Caleb Owens.+ 10 ix Rebecca2 Ridgway or Jack, born abt 1854; died 1 Feb 1919. Shemarried (1) (---) Sammons; (2) Jerry Clark.+ 11 x Sylvester2 Ridgway or Jack, born abt 1856. He married Annie(---).+ 12 xi Eliza Jane2 Ridgway or Jack, born Nov 1859. She married PeterMosley.+ 13 xii Sina2 Ridgway or Jack, born Nov 1859. She married George Mosley.+ 14 xiii John Henry2 Ridgeway, born 1 Mar 1861 in Delaware; died 20Jan 1919 in Delaware; buried in Fork Branch Cemetery, Dover, Delaware. He married Minnie Durham.+ 15 xiv Jeremiah2 Ridgway or Jack, born abt 1865. He married HarriettHughes.+ 16 xv Greensbury2 Ridgway or Jack (Sr.), born 4 Jul 1869 in Kent,Delaware; died 10 Jan 1944 in Cheswold, Kent, Delaware; buried in Immanuel Union United Methodist Church (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop's Corner, Kent,Delaware. He married Sarah Virginia "Sallie" Durham.
2nd Generation (abbreviated)
14. John Henry2 Ridgeway (Tilghman1), born 1 Mar 1861 in Delaware; died 20Jan 1919 in Delaware; buried in Fork Branch Cemetery, Dover, Delaware. He married on 8 Aug 1888 in Delaware Minnie Durham, born 9 Mar 1871 in Delaware;died 12 Sep 1946; buried in Fork Branch Cemetery, Dover, Kent, Delaware,daughter of Jeremiah Durham and Margaretta Mosley.
Children of John Henry Ridgeway and Minnie Durham were as follows:+ 65 i Lewis N.3 Ridgeway, born abt Sep 1891. He married CynthiaDurham.+ 66 ii Frederick Harrison3 Ridgeway, born abt Oct 1894 in Dover, Kent, Delaware; died 12 Jan 1952 in New Jersey; buried in Gouldtown Cemetery,Gouldtown, Cumberland, New Jersey. He married Mary Elizabeth Mosley. 67 iii Jeremiah3 Ridgeway, born 1895; died 1969; buried in Fork BranchCemetery, Dover, Kent, Delaware.+ 68 iv Beulah M.3 Ridgeway, born 1898; died 25 Jun 1926; buried 15 Jan 1926 in Fork Branch Cemetery, Dover, Kent, Delaware. She married (1) ArthurCharles Sammons; (2) (---) Sammons. 69 v McKinley3 Ridgeway, born 1904; died 17 May 1921; buried in ForkBranch Cemetery, Dover, Kent, Delaware. 70 vi Felix T.3 Ridgeway. 71 vii Margaret "Maggie"3 Ridgeway, buried in "the Cemetery onGreenwich Rd., Bridgeton, Cumberland, New Jersey". She married (1) CharlesH. Durham, born May 1898 in Delaware; died 17 Oct 1967 in New Jersey; buriedin Fordville Cemetery, Fordville, Cumberland, New Jersey, son of Harry Durhamand Ida Munce; (2) (---) Johnson.+ 72 viii Gladys3 Ridgeway, born abt 1911 in Blackbird, Delaware; died4 Mar 1970 in Bridgeton Hospital, Bridgeton, Cumberland, New Jersey; buried 7Mar 1970 in Gouldtown Cemetery, Gouldtown, Cumberland, New Jersey. Shemarried William H. Pierce.+ 73 ix Tilghman D. "Fading Father Star"3 Ridgeway (Sr.), born abt 1915 in Dover, Kent, Delaware; died 17 May 1992 in South Jersey Hospital System, Bridgeton Division, Bridgeton, Cumberland, New Jersey; buried 20 May 1992 inGreenwood Memorial Park, Millville, Cumberland, New Jersey. He marriedHester Cuff. 74 x Manford N.3 Ridgeway. 75 xi Minnie3 Ridgeway. She married Elias Pierce.+ 76 xii Vincent R.3 Ridgway. He married Anna Durham.
3rd Generation (abbreviated)
65. Lewis N.3 Ridgeway (John Henry2, Tilghman1), born abt Sep 1891. Hemarried Cynthia Durham.
Children of Lewis N. Ridgeway and Cynthia Durham were as follows:+ 143 i Sarah4 Ridgeway, born abt 1926 in Bridgeton, Cumberland, NewJersey; died 23 Sep 1996 in Bridgeton, Cumberland, New Jersey; buried 27 Sep1996 in Cedar Hill Memorial Park, New Jersey. She married Ivy Carter. 144 ii Cynthia4 Ridgeway. She married (---) Smith. 145 iii Christine4 Ridgeway. 146 iv Naomi4 Ridgeway. 147 v Mary4 Ridgeway. She married (---) Pearce. 148 vi (Seven Sons)4 (---).
4th Generation (abbreviated)
143. Sarah4 Ridgeway (Lewis N.3, John Henry2, Tilghman1), born abt 1926 inBridgeton, Cumberland, New Jersey; died 23 Sep 1996 in Bridgeton, Cumberland,New Jersey; buried 27 Sep 1996 in Cedar Hill Memorial Park, New Jersey. Shemarried abt 1945 Ivy Carter.
Children of Sarah Ridgeway and Ivy Carter were as follows: 292 i Ida5 (---).
---------------------
>
Death certificate: Delaware #221 1944. Greensburry Ridgeway died 10 Jan 1944 at Cheswold, Kent, DE. Age 74, male, moorish, Widdow, born 4 July 1869. Father & mother unknown. Occupation labor. Born (illegible town), Kent. Informant Elizabeth Ridgway, Cheswold, Delaware. Buried Manship 12 Feb by Calvin Clark.
Manship Cemetery grave marker: 1867-1944. Buried in same plot (057) -- Sarah D. Ridgway 1879-1944
Apparently informant was Elizabeth Brown Ridgway, wife of Urie (the only Eliz. we could find amongst Greensburry's children. She may not have known an accurate birth date.)
-----------------
2.
The two Sammons as husbands is prob an error. Should be just one.
Dover Area Death Records by Gregg & RidgewayBeulah M. Ridgeway Sammons (Typescript faded--this matches original notes--LG) January 15, 1926 Parents: Henry Ridgeway and Minnie Durham
Fork Branch Cemetery: SAMMONS, BEULAH M. 1898 - 25 JUN 1926 Yep, obviously wrong with one of them. Need a death certificate. We have deleted the days and months from the death date in the database.-----------
3.
Charles is the son of Harry Durham and Ida Munce. They married 11 Aug 1897, DE. Ida born Jun 1880, buried Fordville Cemetery,Fordville,Cumberland,New Jersey. No dates for Harry. Source --
Subj: Re: Charles/Harry DurhamDate: 99-10-21From: RWahoor
...Aunt Ida was married to Harry Durham. ...Harry & Ida had a son CharlesDurham who married Margaret "Maggie" Ridgeway, daughter of John H. Ridgway &Minnie Durham. Minnie was my dad's aunt also. Ida was married to her 1stcousin. ...Minnie was a sister to Rebecca Durham Munson, my father mother.
---------------4. > 11 vii Mary2 Dean, born 17 Jan 1910 in Fairfield>> Township, Cumberland, New Jersey; died 21 Feb>> 1979 in Fairfield Township, Cumberland, New>> Jersey. She married (1) Furman Gould; (2) Walter>> Bone; (3) Michael Kozma.
...I started to ask if this Furman Gould was any connection to: Furman Gould, Sr. who married Christianna "Kitty" Gould..., or Furman Gould Jr. who married Hester Cuff..., until I realized that these Furman Sr. and Jr. were too far back. Furman Sr. was a brother of Benjamin who was b. 1779. So, never mind about this one unless you happen to know Mary Dean's husband Furman's descent from the other Goulds.
-----
2. For this one:
>> + 12 viii Leanna2 Dean, born 23 Mar 1915>> in Fairfield Township, Cumberland, New Jersey;>> died 13 Jun 1992 in Bridgeton Hospital, Bridgeton,>> Cumberland, New Jersey; buried 15 Jun 1992 in>> Overlook Cemetery, Bridgeton, Cumberland, New>> Jersey. She married (1) William Edgar "June">> Ridgway (Jr.); (2) Arnold F. Peterson.
...you have her b. date as 23 Mar, but Linda Harmon gave 21 Mar in her message of Sep 05, 1999. Anyone know which one might be an error?
OK, that's all for this one. Thanks, John
Subj: Re: Dean dilemmasDate: 06/11/2000 8:43:46 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@, linda@, JACKLYN001
In a message dated 06/10/2000 5:30:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
>
No, we don't.
We went by the SSDI. If Linda has a birth cert., that would take precendence.
SSDI: LEANNA PETERSONSSN 155-07-3935 Residence:Born 23 Mar 1915 Died Jun 1992 Issued: NJ (Before 1951)
Subj: RE: Andre L. "Roy" ChristiansenDate: 06/10/2000 5:30:07 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: ACoker43@ ('Coker, Arlena "Pinky"'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Pinky & Betty & Ray. In regard to the survivors of Roy Christiansen, do you know if the 5 grandchildren were all children of Roy & Corrine's son, Robin? (Their daughter Lori's last name is still given as Christiansen, suggesting she is unmarried, so I assume she is not their parent). Also, is the spelling of his given first name correct? (Andre?) I had it listed as "Andie," but cannot immediately recall where I'd obtained this. I knew his middle name was Leroy and that he went by "Roy." Thanks! John
Subj: Re: Andre L. "Roy" ChristiansenDate: 06/11/2000 11:24:55 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 06/10/2000 5:30:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
> The 1880 Kent Co. Census shows him with his>> wife SARAH A. (age 25) and a son. Also listed>> with them was his "father in law" James SEENEY,>> so Sarah was a "Seeney". I show Susan>> Sammons as his 2nd wife but I'm not sure of the>> source of that info.
And then Betty & Ray mentioned:
>> We have his second wife as Susan Munce/Muntz also:>> There is a problem with our records. We show>> Susan Munce to be the daughter of Benjamin>> SAMMONS b Feb 1835 d 1909 and Lydia A.>> Munce b 1832/33 d 1908/9. Benjamin was the>> son of Isaac Lydia was the daughter of Robert>> Munce and Jemima/Jennie Okea or Lockwood>> or Hansor.>> ...but don't have any notation why the surnames are>> different
Just to clarify for those who might be confused by this: Susan Munce/Muntz and Susan Sammons are one-and-the-same person. Her father was Benjamin Sammons (I have him as b. Feb 1837) and her mother was Lydia Ann Munce (I have: b. Sep 1832, d. 1908), and there is some question as to Benjamin & Lydia's marital status. Apparently theirs was a common-law marriage (illegitimate). Therefore, some of the children have been referenced as Munce/Muntz and some as Sammons. I don't have documentation on which children were "officially" listed under each surname.
Also, Betty & Ray posted the following from an older message from Lorraine:
>> Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: Additions>> Date: 99-03-12>> From: LFREIDA15@>> Thomas Carney, son of James Carney and>> Sallie Sanger/Songo, m Susan Muntz,>> they were parents of Adeline, Maggie, Lilly,>> Wm. Earnest, James, Herbert, Harrison Carney.>> They separated and then Susan m Jesse>> Dean (no children by this m) Jesse Dean m>> first Sallie Seeney and they had a son Earnest>> Clarence Dean.
I had the same children listed for Thomas & Susan, but I also had their oldest daughter as Anthalinda Carney, b. ca. 1873, whose name is not listed in Lorraine's excerpt above. Anthalinda was listed in Lorraine's subsequent message from October 17, 1999:
>> Subject: Re: RE: Sarah E. "Lizzie" Pritchett Mosley>> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:33:51 EDT>> From: LFREIDA15@>> In 1880 Census Kent County De>> Thomas Carney age 29 all b in De>> Susan age 25 nee Muntz>> Arthalinda age 7>> Maggie age 6>> Lilly age 5>> Earnest age 1 (William Earnest)
(This Anthalinda Carney not to be confused with the Anthalinda Carney who was the daughter of Robert Carney and Mary Elmira Cott. Their Anthalinda was born 28 Apr 1866). However, where was Adeline (aka Madeline) at the time of the 1880 census above? Does anyone have her birthdate? Was it before or after 1880? She married James Loatman.
ANYWAY, back to James Dean III and his wives: I did not have the information that he had also married Sarah A. Seeney, daughter of James Seeney. Do we know if James Dean III had any children with Sarah, prior to marrying Susan Munce/Sammons (with whom he apparently had none)? Do we know which James Seeney is the father of Sarah? Could it have been the James Seeney (b. ca. 1820) who was married to Sallie Clark and the father of Frederick Seeney (b. 1865) and at least one other child, James Seeney (Jr)?
Thanks!! John
Subj: Morgans & SandersDate: 06/11/2000 11:32:17 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@, LFREIDA 15
Hi Lorraine & John --
Please take a look at the two messages below. These appear to be the same persons. Are they?
Message1...................................Message 2
William H. Morgan b 1807....and William MorganAnnie Sanders b 1819..........and Maryanne Sanders Sarah Morgan b 1843...........and Sarah Morgan
1. Lynn Jackson's summary of the Morgan family at
William H. Morgan was born in Kent Co., DE on 16 Dec 1807. His relationshipto John Morgan and James Morgan is not yet known but they were possiblybrothers. Sometime prior to 1840 he married Annie Saunders (b.c. 1819) andthey had, at least, 6 children:
1. John H. Morgan (1840-1925) married Mary Ann Coker 2. Elizabeth Morgan (b 1841) 3. Sarah Morgan (b 1843) 4. Rebecca Morgan (b 1845) 5. Alsey Morgan (b 1849) 6. James K. Morgan (1851-1931) married Araminta Sisco
2. From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@] Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 11:44 PM To: spiff@ Subject: Re: Carney Chaos!
Hi John ...
...Wm Washington Carty m to Sarah Morgan, dau of Wm Morgan and Maryanne Sanders
Subj: RE: Morgans & SandersDate: 06/11/2000 11:51:42 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine')
Hi, Betty & Ray.
Yes, I have them identified as one-and-the-same in my FTM file. I have William's wife entered as "Mary Anna 'Annie' Morgan," and my dates were slightly off from the ones Lynn displayed for the children:
John H. Morgan, b. 17 Feb 1840, m. Mary A. Coker Elizabeth Morgan, b. ca. 1842 Sarah A. Morgan, b. ca. 1844, m. William Washington Carty/Carter Rebecca Morgan, b. ca. 1846 Elsa/Also Morgan, b. ca. 1850 James Kenneth Morgan, b. 04 Jul 1851, m. Araminta Sisco (Lynn's grandparents. Lynn's mother was named after this Araminta)
I also did not have William Morgan's exact birthdate--I just had ca. 1804.
Hope this helps, John
Subj: RE: DEANS (and Carney & Seeney)Date: 06/11/2000 12:16:13 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')CC: JACKLYN001@ ('JACKLYN001@'), AquaBetty@ (AquaBetty@), DL7715@ ('Seaney, Dave'), seen1@worldnet. ('Seeney, Chuck')
Hi, Lynn & Betty & Ray.
Lynn, thanks for your clarifications. I'm curious about the wife(wives) of James Dean III. You mentioned:
>> The 1880 Kent Co. Census shows him with his>> wife SARAH A. (age 25) and a son. Also listed>> with them was his "father in law" James SEENEY,>> so Sarah was a "Seeney". I show Susan>> Sammons as his 2nd wife but I'm not sure of the>> source of that info.
And then Betty & Ray mentioned:
>> We have his second wife as Susan Munce/Muntz also:>> There is a problem with our records. We show>> Susan Munce to be the daughter of Benjamin>> SAMMONS b Feb 1835 d 1909 and Lydia A.>> Munce b 1832/33 d 1908/9. Benjamin was the>> son of Isaac Lydia was the daughter of Robert>> Munce and Jemima/Jennie Okea or Lockwood>> or Hansor.>> ...but don't have any notation why the surnames are>> different
Just to clarify for those who might be confused by this: Susan Munce/Muntz and Susan Sammons are one-and-the-same person. Her father was Benjamin Sammons (I have him as b. Feb 1837) and her mother was Lydia Ann Munce (I have: b. Sep 1832, d. 1908), and there is some question as to Benjamin & Lydia's marital status. Apparently theirs was a common-law marriage (illegitimate). Therefore, some of the children have been referenced as Munce/Muntz and some as Sammons. I don't have documentation on which children were "officially" listed under each surname.
Also, Betty & Ray posted the following from an older message from Lorraine:
>> Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: Additions>> Date: 99-03-12>> From: LFREIDA15@>> Thomas Carney, son of James Carney and>> Sallie Sanger/Songo, m Susan Muntz,>> they were parents of Adeline, Maggie, Lilly,>> Wm. Earnest, James, Herbert, Harrison Carney.>> They separated and then Susan m Jesse>> Dean (no children by this m) Jesse Dean m>> first Sallie Seeney and they had a son Earnest>> Clarence Dean.
I had the same children listed for Thomas & Susan, but I also had their oldest daughter as Anthalinda Carney, b. ca. 1873, whose name is not listed in Lorraine's excerpt above. Anthalinda was listed in Lorraine's subsequent message from October 17, 1999:
>> Subject: Re: RE: Sarah E. "Lizzie" Pritchett Mosley>> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:33:51 EDT>> From: LFREIDA15@>> In 1880 Census Kent County De>> Thomas Carney age 29 all b in De>> Susan age 25 nee Muntz>> Arthalinda age 7>> Maggie age 6>> Lilly age 5>> Earnest age 1 (William Earnest)
(This Anthalinda Carney not to be confused with the Anthalinda Carney who was the daughter of Robert Carney and Mary Elmira Cott. Their Anthalinda was born 28 Apr 1866). However, where was Adeline (aka Madeline) at the time of the 1880 census above? Does anyone have her birthdate? Was it before or after 1880? She married James Loatman.
ANYWAY, back to James Dean III and his wives: I did not have the information that he had also married Sarah A. Seeney, daughter of James Seeney. Do we know if James Dean III had any children with Sarah, prior to marrying Susan Munce/Sammons (with whom he apparently had none)? Do we know which James Seeney is the father of Sarah? Could it have been the James Seeney (b. ca. 1820) who was married to Sallie Clark and the father of Frederick Seeney (b. 1865) and at least one other child, James Seeney (Jr)?
Thanks!! John
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: DEANS (and Carney & Seeney)Date: 06/11/2000 12:17:32 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')CC: JACKLYN001@ ('JACKLYN001@'), AquaBetty@ (AquaBetty@), DL7715@ ('Seaney, Dave'), seen1@worldnet. ('Seeney, Chuck')
Hi, Lynn & Betty & Ray.
Lynn, thanks for your clarifications. I'm curious about the wife(wives) of James Dean III. You mentioned:
>> The 1880 Kent Co. Census shows him with his>> wife SARAH A. (age 25) and a son. Also listed>> with them was his "father in law" James SEENEY,>> so Sarah was a "Seeney". I show Susan>> Sammons as his 2nd wife but I'm not sure of the>> source of that info.
And then Betty & Ray mentioned:
>> We have his second wife as Susan Munce/Muntz also:>> There is a problem with our records. We show>> Susan Munce to be the daughter of Benjamin>> SAMMONS b Feb 1835 d 1909 and Lydia A.>> Munce b 1832/33 d 1908/9. Benjamin was the>> son of Isaac Lydia was the daughter of Robert>> Munce and Jemima/Jennie Okea or Lockwood>> or Hansor.>> ...but don't have any notation why the surnames are>> different
Just to clarify for those who might be confused by this: Susan Munce/Muntz and Susan Sammons are one-and-the-same person. Her father was Benjamin Sammons (I have him as b. Feb 1837) and her mother was Lydia Ann Munce (I have: b. Sep 1832, d. 1908), and there is some question as to Benjamin & Lydia's marital status. Apparently theirs was a common-law marriage (illegitimate). Therefore, some of the children have been referenced as Munce/Muntz and some as Sammons. I don't have documentation on which children were "officially" listed under each surname.
Also, Betty & Ray posted the following from an older message from Lorraine:
>> Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: Additions>> Date: 99-03-12>> From: LFREIDA15@>> Thomas Carney, son of James Carney and>> Sallie Sanger/Songo, m Susan Muntz,>> they were parents of Adeline, Maggie, Lilly,>> Wm. Earnest, James, Herbert, Harrison Carney.>> They separated and then Susan m Jesse>> Dean (no children by this m) Jesse Dean m>> first Sallie Seeney and they had a son Earnest>> Clarence Dean.
I had the same children listed for Thomas & Susan, but I also had their oldest daughter as Anthalinda Carney, b. ca. 1873, whose name is not listed in Lorraine's excerpt above. Anthalinda was listed in Lorraine's subsequent message from October 17, 1999:
>> Subject: Re: RE: Sarah E. "Lizzie" Pritchett Mosley>> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:33:51 EDT>> From: LFREIDA15@>> In 1880 Census Kent County De>> Thomas Carney age 29 all b in De>> Susan age 25 nee Muntz>> Arthalinda age 7>> Maggie age 6>> Lilly age 5>> Earnest age 1 (William Earnest)
(This Anthalinda Carney not to be confused with the Anthalinda Carney who was the daughter of Robert Carney and Mary Elmira Cott. Their Anthalinda was born 28 Apr 1866). However, where was Adeline (aka Madeline) at the time of the 1880 census above? Does anyone have her birthdate? Was it before or after 1880? She married James Loatman.
ANYWAY, back to James Dean III and his wives: I did not have the information that he had also married Sarah A. Seeney, daughter of James Seeney. Do we know if James Dean III had any children with Sarah, prior to marrying Susan Munce/Sammons (with whom he apparently had none)? Do we know which James Seeney is the father of Sarah? Could it have been the James Seeney (b. ca. 1820) who was married to Sallie Clark and the father of Frederick Seeney (b. 1865) and at least one other child, James Seeney (Jr)?
Thanks!! John
Subj: FW: Andre L. "Roy" ChristiansenDate: 06/11/2000 11:32:37 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Just got your reply about Roy Christiansen. Received this from cousin Pinky Coker:
>> Hi John, In answer to your question, all the grand>> children are Robins Children . Andre is the correct>> spelling, and his middle name was Leroy. His wife>> Corinne is my Moms sister , next to the baby. And>> she is the only one living out of twelve children.>> William Morgan who was Cora Carney Morgan>> husband & Harry Morgan father, was Uncle Roys>> uncle. Did you get that (:>> His mother was Uncle Wills sister.
Hope this helps! John
Subj: RE: Napoleon Bonaparte Norris Ransome Morgan (aka Concealler???)Date: 06/11/2000 11:41:53 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Thanks for the clarifications on Roy. I just forwarded you the response I received from cousin Pinky, clarifying that all 5 grandchildren were indeed from Roy & Corrine's son Robin. As for your paragraph:
>> His grandfather, Napoleon Bonaparte Morgan,>> told him that he, 'Pole,' was born a Concealler and>> was raised by the Morgans and took their name.>> John, after you and Lynn expressed doubts about>> this we talked again with Andre --Roy-- and he>> emphatically reaffirmed the story. Also that 'Pole's'>> full name was Napoleon Bonaparte Norris Ransome>> Morgan. Maybe the extra names were associated>> with his birth parents.
*sigh* This is precisely the kind of stuff that's enough to make one want to give up genealogy altogether! I have no idea what to make of this.... Why would Pole tell his grandson that he was born a Concealler, when he's quoted by Weslager as saying "his father was James Morgan and that his mother was born Henrietta Carter. Her mother was a full-blood Maryland Indian, he said, but he could not identify her tribe." ??????????? I give up.... (Thanks for the info, though). Your in exasperation,
Subj: RE: Morgans & SandersDate: 06/11/2000 11:51:42 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine')
Hi, Betty & Ray.
Yes, I have them identified as one-and-the-same in my FTM file. I have William's wife entered as "Mary Anna 'Annie' Morgan," and my dates were slightly off from the ones Lynn displayed for the children:
John H. Morgan, b. 17 Feb 1840, m. Mary A. Coker Elizabeth Morgan, b. ca. 1842 Sarah A. Morgan, b. ca. 1844, m. William Washington Carty/Carter Rebecca Morgan, b. ca. 1846 Elsa/Also Morgan, b. ca. 1850 James Kenneth Morgan, b. 04 Jul 1851, m. Araminta Sisco (Lynn's grandparents. Lynn's mother was named after this Araminta)
I also did not have William Morgan's exact birthdate--I just had ca. 1804.
Hope this helps, John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 11:32 PMTo: spiff@; LFREIDA15@Subject: Morgans & Sanders
Hi Lorraine & John --
Please take a look at the two messages below. These appear to be the same persons. Are they?
Message1...................................Message 2
William H. Morgan b 1807....and William MorganAnnie Sanders b 1819..........and Maryanne Sanders Sarah Morgan b 1843...........and Sarah Morgan
1. Lynn Jackson's summary of the Morgan family at
William H. Morgan was born in Kent Co., DE on 16 Dec 1807. His relationshipto John Morgan and James Morgan is not yet known but they were possiblybrothers. Sometime prior to 1840 he married Annie Saunders (b.c. 1819) andthey had, at least, 6 children:
1. John H. Morgan (1840-1925) married Mary Ann Coker 2. Elizabeth Morgan (b 1841) 3. Sarah Morgan (b 1843) 4. Rebecca Morgan (b 1845) 5. Alsey Morgan (b 1849) 6. James K. Morgan (1851-1931) married Araminta Sisco
2. From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@] Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 1998 11:44 PM To: spiff@ Subject: Re: Carney Chaos!
Hi John ...
...Wm Washington Carty m to Sarah Morgan, dau of Wm Morgan and Maryanne Sanders
Subj: RE: DEANS (and Carney & Seeney)Date: 06/12/2000 12:32:02 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), seen1@worldnet. ('Seeney, Chuck'), DL7715@ ('Seaney, Dave')
Hello, all. In my earlier message I wrote:
>> ANYWAY, back to James Dean III and his wives
I MEANT to say: back to Jesse Dean III and his wives. Likewise, the following sentence should have read: Do we know if Jesse Dean III had any children with Sarah, prior to marrying Susan Munce/Sammons....
Thanks, Betty & Ray, for catching this! :-)
John
Subj: RE: Sammons familyDate: 06/12/2000 5:02:15 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi again, Ray & Betty.
I think I'm either lacking some information on the Sammons children in this family, or I've got something wrong.
Pinky wrote:>
And then you wrote:> and
Manship grave inscription: "W. G. Sammons 1882 - 1946"
Manship grave inscription: "Ella D. Sammons 1888 - 1969"
>
We don't have a 1910 date for any Mary Sammons. Mary V. S. Reed is definitely 1933. She was younger than Betty.
Your list --
1. Helen Sammons, b. 19062. Elmer Sammons, b. 19073. Morris Sammons, b. 19094. Mary Virginia Sammons, b. 19105. Odis Sammons, b. 19126. Anna Bell Sammons, b. 19137. Hazella "Haz" Sammons, b. 19 Jul 19158. Stanley Sammons, b. 19189. Corrine Sammons, b. unknown10. Lily Beatrice Sammons, b. unknown11. Bernice Sammons, b. unknown12. Jesse Sammons, b. unknown13. ? Sammons, b. unknown
Our list.
Children of William Garfield Sammons and Ella Durham were as follows:
+ 2 i Helen2 Sammons, born 7 Nov 1905; died Sep 1970 in Cheswold, Kent, Delaware; buried in Forest Grove Cemetery, near Cheswold, Kent, Delaware. She married James Greenage. 3 ii Elmer2 Sammons, born 1 Jan 1907; died Sep 1981 in Gibbstown, New Jersey; buried in Clarksborough, New Jersey. He married Charlotte Carty. 4 iii Morris2 Sammons, born 22 Oct 1908; died 14 Jul 1992 in Old Bridge, New Jersey. He married Sylvia Jackson. 5 iv Otis2 Sammons, born 11 Apr 1911; died Sep 1981. He married Hazel Jackson. + 6 v Annabelle2 Sammons, born 31 Jul 1913; died 15 Feb 1989 in Kent General Hospital, Dover, Kent, Delaware; buried in Immanuel Union United Methodist Church (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. She married (1) Thomas Greenage; (2) Lincoln "Link" Carney. + 7 vi Hazella2 Sammons, born 19 Jul 1915 in Cheswold, Kent, Delaware; died 10 Jan 1996 in Kent General Hospital, Dover, Kent, Delaware; buried 14 Jan 1996 in Immanuel Union United Methodist (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. She married Roland "Tip" Coker (Rev.). 8 vii Stanley2 Sammons, born 8 Aug 1917; died Aug 1982 in Plainfield, New Jersey. He married Daisey (---), born in England; died in California. 9 viii Lilly Beatrice2 Sammons, born 3 Feb 1920; died Sep 1995; buried in Immanuel Union United Methodist Church (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. She married Clarence Carney. + 10 ix Bernice2 Sammons, born 27 Mar 1923; died 24 May 1977 in Bridgeton, Cumberland, New Jersey; buried in Immanuel Union United Methodist Church (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. She married Fred Willard Morris Hughes (Tall Cedar). 11 x Jesse L.2 Sammons, born 1925; died 1933; buried in Immanuel Union United Methodist (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. + 12 xi Corrine Priscilla2 Sammons, born abt 1928 in Dover, Kent, Delaware. She married Andre Leroy Christiansen. 13 xii (---)2 Sammons, died Infant . + 14 xiii Mary Virginia2 Sammons, born 13 Jan 1933 in Cheswold, Kent, Delaware; died 11 Jun 1999 in Washington Hospital Center, Washington, D.C.; buried 16 Jun 1999 in Immanuel Union United Methodist (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. She married Allen Thomas Reed.
We put the unnamed baby as #13 only because that is the largest gap between children.
---------------------
B&R Terry
Subj: Strange goings-on in emailDate: 06/12/2000 5:01:38 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Thanks for all your messages and work as well. Something I just thought I'd point out, FYI. (I think we've talked about this before).... All of your messages of late (including all of the ones from last night / this morning, and possibly a couple of previous ones), have been coming through with an ATTACHMENT, not any text at all in the main shell of the email. But when I double-click on the attachment icon, it opens a Notepad text file, in which I can select all the text and then re-paste it into your original message shell. So it's no big deal; only takes a couple of seconds. One odd thing is that when this happens it occasionally takes various punctuation marks and changes them into weird symbols. For instance, an apostrophe seems to turn into: a?? (Not sure how that will translate back through e-mail to you). I then go through and correct these as well. Anyway, again, it's no big deal. I just thought I would make you aware of this. None of the many other messages I've been receiving the last few days have done this, even though they often have forwarded messages, etc, included as well. I occasionally see this from other sources, but not often. It has happened on occasion with the Mitsawokett digest message, it which the entire day's digest is compacted into a text attachment, with the same odd punctuation changes. John
Subj: James "Shimmy" CarterDate: 06/12/2000 5:02:47 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
File: JamesShi.zip (50788 bytes)DL Time (50000 bps): < 1 minute
Hi, Ray & Betty. You mentioned my dad's cousin, James/Jimmy (everyone in our family called him "Shimmy") Carter. He was a very nice man. Nice to know that he was a friend of Betty's. Thought you both might like this photo of him that I took at his home in March 1988. He is holding a photo of his father, my great-uncle, William James Carter (23 Nov 1889--29 Jan 1961). I'll go ahead and include a close-up on Uncle Willie's photo as well. Thanks, John
Subj: Smoke SignalsDate: 06/15/2000 10:09:23 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Betty & Ray. I saw the mention of you (thought not by name) in the May 31st edition of "Smoke Signals." (was pretty sure it was you at first, but the dancing skeleton was the clincher!) Nice to know you've "found" another second cousin! :-) John
Subj: RE: Sammons familyDate: 06/15/2000 10:09:43 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Thanks for the Sammons info. I have updated my database. A couple of questions:
1. Is the Carty who was married to Elmer Sammons any relation to the other Cartys from Maryland?
2. For Mary Virginia Sammons Reed, you have a death date of 11 Jun 1999, but this is what her niece Pinky sent me in a message dated last July 17th:
>> My Mom baby sister Mary Virginia Reed>> passed June 14th, in DC,in the hospital,>> from heart problems.
Is your June 11th date fairly certain? If so, I can ask Pinky to verify her date.
3. For Mary Virginia's husband, Allen Thomas Reed, do we know if he descends from the other Reeds in the Mitsawokett family?
Thanks! John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 10:20 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Sammons family
John,
No clue as to why you have the weird experiences with attachments, note pad,etc.We do from time to time receive messages with weird substitutions, like i inplace of apostrophe.
In a message dated 06/12/2000 5:02:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,spiff@ writes:
>
Manship grave inscription: "W. G. Sammons 1882 - 1946"
Manship grave inscription: "Ella D. Sammons 1888 - 1969"
>
We don't have a 1910 date for any Mary Sammons. Mary V. S. Reed isdefinitely 1933. She was younger than Betty.
Your list --
1. Helen Sammons, b. 19062. Elmer Sammons, b. 19073. Morris Sammons, b. 19094. Mary Virginia Sammons, b. 19105. Odis Sammons, b. 19126. Anna Bell Sammons, b. 19137. Hazella "Haz" Sammons, b. 19 Jul 19158. Stanley Sammons, b. 19189. Corrine Sammons, b. unknown10. Lily Beatrice Sammons, b. unknown11. Bernice Sammons, b. unknown12. Jesse Sammons, b. unknown13. ? Sammons, b. unknown
Our list.
Children of William Garfield Sammons and Ella Durham were as follows:
+ 2 i Helen2 Sammons, born 7 Nov 1905; died Sep 1970 in Cheswold, Kent,Delaware; buried in Forest Grove Cemetery, near Cheswold, Kent, Delaware. She married James Greenage. 3 ii Elmer2 Sammons, born 1 Jan 1907; died Sep 1981 in Gibbstown, NewJersey; buried in Clarksborough, New Jersey. He married Charlotte Carty. 4 iii Morris2 Sammons, born 22 Oct 1908; died 14 Jul 1992 in OldBridge, New Jersey. He married Sylvia Jackson. 5 iv Otis2 Sammons, born 11 Apr 1911; died Sep 1981. He marriedHazel Jackson.+ 6 v Annabelle2 Sammons, born 31 Jul 1913; died 15 Feb 1989 in KentGeneral Hospital, Dover, Kent, Delaware; buried in Immanuel Union UnitedMethodist Church (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. Shemarried (1) Thomas Greenage; (2) Lincoln "Link" Carney.+ 7 vi Hazella2 Sammons, born 19 Jul 1915 in Cheswold, Kent, Delaware; died 10 Jan 1996 in Kent General Hospital, Dover, Kent, Delaware; buried 14 Jan 1996 in Immanuel Union United Methodist (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop'sCorner, Kent, Delaware. She married Roland "Tip" Coker (Rev.). 8 vii Stanley2 Sammons, born 8 Aug 1917; died Aug 1982 in Plainfield, New Jersey. He married Daisey (---), born in England; died in California. 9 viii Lilly Beatrice2 Sammons, born 3 Feb 1920; died Sep 1995;buried in Immanuel Union United Methodist Church (Manship) Cemetery,Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. She married Clarence Carney.+ 10 ix Bernice2 Sammons, born 27 Mar 1923; died 24 May 1977 inBridgeton, Cumberland, New Jersey; buried in Immanuel Union United MethodistChurch (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. She married FredWillard Morris Hughes (Tall Cedar). 11 x Jesse L.2 Sammons, born 1925; died 1933; buried in ImmanuelUnion United Methodist (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. + 12 xi Corrine Priscilla2 Sammons, born abt 1928 in Dover, Kent,Delaware. She married Andre Leroy Christiansen. 13 xii (---)2 Sammons, died Infant .+ 14 xiii Mary Virginia2 Sammons, born 13 Jan 1933 in Cheswold, Kent, Delaware; died 11 Jun 1999 in Washington Hospital Center, Washington, D.C.; buried 16 Jun 1999 in Immanuel Union United Methodist (Manship) Cemetery,Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. She married Allen Thomas Reed.
We put the unnamed baby as #13 only because that is the largest gap between children.
---------------------
B
Subj: Re: Sammons familyDate: 06/16/2000 12:02:15 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 06/15/2000 10:09:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
>
We don't have her parents. > My Mom baby sister Mary Virginia Reed passed June 14th, in DC,in the hospital, from heart problems.>
Both the obit & funeral program say Jun 11. They are on the web site. > He departed this life on April 2911,, 1996, in Kent General
----------
2. On my dad's (John Clayton Carter): ("honorable" should be "honorably") (in Funeral Program)>> and was honorable discharged with the rank of Airman 1st class There also seems to be a carriage-return () between:>> March 21, 2000 12:00>> noon. Lakewood, Colorado
----------
3. On Ralph Carter Thomas': (has April 122, instead of 22).Ralph Carter Thomas: Sunrise April l22, 1914; Sunset December 4, 1995
----------
That's all! Again, thanks for your hard work! John
-----Original Message-----From: Mitsawokett@ [SMTP:Mitsawokett@]Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 3:15 AMTo: Mitsawokett@Subject: ("New" obituaries) [Mitsawokett] Digest Number 395
Message: 2 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 21:45:55 EDT From: aquabetty@Subject: Obituaries
Thanks to Lorraine Johnson-Gregg the following obits or death notices havebeen added to
today. No dates appear primarily because we do not have the year of death.
Please send copies of obits you have--written, Xeroxed, photographed ororiginal.
The index file is now around 150K bytes. If anyone is having trouble gettingit to open in a reasonable amount of time, please tell us and we will split the index into more than one file.
Michael A. Ridgway 1958-1980Kenneth G. (Bub) Pierce ~1947-1994David M. Ridgway ~1937-1999Floyd C. RidgwayDavid M. Ridgway Sr. ~1937-1999Lewis N. Ridgway 1891-1967Mary Elizabeth Mosley Ridgeway ~1901-1992Joseph L. "Turtle of Wisdom" ReedWalter RidgwayViola RidgwayWilliam (Buck) RidgwayMinnie Pierce ~1906-1996Henry E. "White Deer Smiling" Ridgeway Sr.Paul J. Ridgeway Sr. 1916-1993Presley "Babe" Ridgway 1936-1980Felix T. Ridgway 1908-1990Jerry Ridgeway ~1905-1969 (?? Fork Branch stone says 1895-1969)Anna E. Ridgway ~1910-1978Michael Tobias RidgewayTodd Wayne Pierce Sr.Manford N. RidgewayVincent H. Ridgway ~1901-1968Winfield Ridgway 1927-1994Winfield Ridgeway Sr.Tilghman D. Ridgway Sr. ~1915-1992Dorothy P. Street ~1915-2000Lillian M. Rhoades ~1915-2000James E. Butcher 1929-2000Thomas G. Jones
---------------------B&R Terry
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Digest Number 442Date: 06/25/2000 3:23:10 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: Mitsawokett@Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@
------------------------------------------------------------------------GIVE YOUR WIFE A BREAK! Lowest prices on maids, lawn care, carpetcleaning, painting and remodeling services in your area at our new FREE website.Click Here!------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a message from the list Mitsawokett.------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 4 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. RE: Answers to John Carter's questions From: "John C. Carter" 2. Harmons From: "John C. Carter" 3. Letisha "Lettie" Ridgway Sammons From: "John C. Carter" 4. [Fwd: Mitsawokett List - New Member] From: Barbara Starr
________________
Message: 1 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 11:44:18 -0400 From: "John C. Carter" Subject: RE: Answers to John Carter's questions
Hi, Betty & Ray. In your message to the Mitsawokett list on 08 Jun 2000 you answered a few of my questions. One of them was:
1. > married to her 1st cousin. ...Minnie was a sister>> to Rebecca Durham Munson, my father mother.
New Question:
Do we know this Harry Durham's ancestry? Apparently we must, if he and Ida were 1st cousins. What is their 1st cousin relationship? Was Harry's father (name unknown to me) another child of Jeremiah Durham and Margaretta Mosley (the parents of Ida's mother Rebecca Durham)?
----------
Thanks very much! John
John C. CarterPaternal surnames: Bailey, Carney, Carter/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston, Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor, Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Joy, Morgan, Morris, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Orem, Ridgeway, Wyatt
________________
Message: 2 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:35:19 -0400 From: "John C. Carter" Subject: Harmons
Hi, everyone.
Back around June 9th, there was a discussion about Nathan Harmon, Ephraim Harmon, etc. Some information was provided which leads me to a couple of questions.....
On June 9th, Betty & Ray posted the following info:
>> We have found a conflict regarding the following -->>>> Nathan B. Harmon who married Sina Johnson>> has been described as 1) the son of Ephraim>> Harmon b abt 1804 & wife unknown and 2) the>> son of Bowen Harmon and Elizabeth Ridgeway>> in the following messages -->>>> 1. This says that Ephraim Harmon is the father>> of Isaac and Ephraim Charles>>>> Subj: [Mitsawokett] Harmon info and more continued...>> Date: 01/16/2000>> From: Wicomicowm@>>>> I received information from a relative about the>> lineage of Ephriam Harmon.>>>> I have also been in touch with a relative from DE>> whose ggrandfather was Isaac Harmon, son-in-law>> of Levin Sockum. She says that Isaac and Ephraim>> were brothers. Her records indicate that Ephraim's>> correct name was Ephraim Charles Harmon and his>> father was Ephraim Harmon and his grandfather>> was Emanuel Harmon. But there is no mention of a>> Mothers name so far. If this is true then it gets us>> back to sometime in the mid to late 1700's.>>>> 2. This repeats the info in #1.>>>> Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] Digest Number 317>> Date: 01/16/2000>> From: SueandJoey@ (Julie Harmon)>>>> Ephraim married ?>> 1. Anna b 1820>> 2. Isaac b 1829>> 3 Charles Ephraim b 1830 md Eunice (Nicey) Wright>> 4 Nancy Harmon b 1831 md James H. Clark
(The Nathan question was clarified by the realization that there must have been two Nathans, one being a generation-off from the other).
New questions:
1. Regarding the "Ephraim married ?" immediately above in Julie's message-- is this the same as Wingate Ephraim Harmon, who married Letitia Hanzer? (who were mentioned in Sterling Street's message on January 4th, 2000; digest #306). Wingate Ephraim's birth year was 1806, per another message from Sterling on January 6th, 2000 (digest #308), which contained the following:
>> No, I haven't been able to find out who the parents>> of Wingate Ephraim Harman or Letitia Hanzer are.>> The only information I have is that Wingate Ephraim>> Harman was born in 1806. Their children were Anna>> Harman, Isaac M. Harman, Nancy Harman, Jane>> Harman, Robert Harman, Sophia Harman, Wingate>> E. Harman Jr., John Harman and William Harman.
...All of the names from Julie's list are included in Sterling's list, except for Ephraim Charles (aka Charles Ephraim). If this is indeed the same family, question #2 below would also be confirmed:
2. Regarding the "Anna b. 1820" in Julie's list, is this the Anna Harmon who married David P. Street? Sterling Street's message on January 4th, 2000 (digest #306) mentioned that this Anna Harmon was a daughter of Wingate Ephraim Harmon and Letitia Hanzer.
3. Regarding the "Isaac b. 1829" in Julie's list, is this the Isaac Harmon who married Sarah Jane Sockum (b. ca. 1838)? I had this Isaac listed in my database as b. ca. 1826, per a message from Stacey to the list on January 13th, 2000 (digest #315) in which she quoted info from the 1870 census.
----------
Thanks, everyone! John
John C. CarterPaternal surnames: Bailey, Carney, Carter/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston, Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor, Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Joy, Morgan, Morris, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Orem, Ridgeway, Wyatt
________________
Message: 3 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:06:43 -0400 From: "John C. Carter" Subject: Letisha "Lettie" Ridgway Sammons
Hello, all.
On March 5th, 2000, Betty & Ray Terry posted the following obituary to the list in response to my inquiry about Letisha "Lettie" Ridgway Sammons:
>> Letisha T. "Lettie" Sammons>>>> 1. Obituary: Letisha T. "Lettie" Sammons, 84,>> died suddenly Tuesday at Bridgeton Hospital.>> Born in Kent County, Del., she was the daughter of>> the late Charles and Emily Ridgway. She was the>> wife of the late Oscar P. Sammons and had been>> the companion of the late Odis W. Sammons for>> more than 40 years.>>>> Surviving are four daughters Grace E. Jones,>> Thelma M. Pierce, Dorothy V. Sammons and Eva>> M. Mosely; two sons, John L. Sammons and Vernon>> C. Sammons; 36 grandchildren; 55 great->> grandchildren, a great-great-grandchild and several>> nieces, nephews and cousins. She was pre->> deceased by three sons, Alfred P. Sammons, Oscar>> P. Sammons and Charles E. Sammons; a daughter,>> Rebecca E. Johnson; a brother, Alfred Ridgway, and>> two sisters, Mazzie Ridgway and Rebecca Turpin.
Question: Of the five daughters and five sons listed, do we know which ones (or all?) were children of her marriage to Oscar Perkins Sammons? Were any the children of Lettie by Odis Sammons?
Thanks! John
John C. Carter
Subj: Re: Greensbury RidgwayDate: 07/01/2000 3:58:42 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: AquaBettyTo: Mitsawokett@
In a message dated 06/25/2000 3:23:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Mitsawokett@ writes:
> married to her 1st cousin. ...Minnie was a sister >> to Rebecca Durham Munson, my father mother. New Question: Do we know this Harry Durham's ancestry? ....>>
No. We just have the e-mail from Rose which you have partly cited above. She is in the dark too----
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 From: RWahoor@ Subject: RE: Ida Munson/Muncey/Munce
My father's sister Ida Munce, be. June 1880 was first married to Harry Durhamon Aug 11, 1897, De.
Aunt Ida and Uncle Harry had a son Charles H. Durham - b. May 1898 De., d.Oct 17, 1967 N.J. Buried in the Fordville Cemetery with his mother Ida. Lot
#73. Aunt Ida is the 1st grave, son Charles is the 2nd grave, one emptygrave on lot is left.
After Uncle Harry passed Aunt Ida lived as common-law wife of Nehemiah Durhamwho was first married to Margaret (nee-Carney). Margaret Carney was alsomarried to Charles Pritchett. (I believe before she md. Nehemiah Durham).
I don't have exact dates for Aunt Ida's death at this time, but she lived inDelaware all of her life. Just before she passed her son went to Delawareand brought her to New Jersey to live with him and his wife, so they couldcare for her while she was sick. Uncle Marr as we called Nehemiah was unableto care for her. She died in New Jersey and is buried in New Jersey. She isburied in the area of the Munson grave, her brothers Thomas, and my fatherFrank (Francis). There was never a tombstone placed on her grave or her sonCharles. But I know where the grave is located, because at the time both myfather and stepfather Herbert W. Hughes kept the cemetery records of thegraves. I do have the record. Her death date is not on the record. Onlythe lot and spot #.
Charles wife Margaret (nee-Ridgeway) was not buried in Fordville, sheremarried a man by the last name of Johnson and he had her buried in theCemetery on Greenwich Rd., Bridgeton, N.J. Her las name being MargaretJohnson at the time. Her husband refused to bury her along side her 1sthusband Charles.
As a young girl my parents would go to Delaware to see Aunt Ida, I rememberhe by the way she looked all wrinkled, short lady, smoked a corn cob pipe andalso smoked unfiltered cigarettes "Camels" and cigars. She would smoke themdown and then take a bobby pin or a tooth pic to finish them. She neverwasted any of the cigar or cigarettes.
I think this answers your questions, however is all can be a littleconfusing. I have a few question myself, I would like to ask some of you.
For Fact: I know that Aunt Ida's son Charles H. Durham was married toMargaret (nee-Ridgeway) Durham, dau. of John H. Ridgeway and Minnie(nee-Durham) Ridgeway.
Minnie Durham was a sister to Aunt Ida's mother Rebecca (nee-Durham) md.Charles Henry Munson/Muncey. Who are my grandparents.
My questions follows: I visited the Durham site, by Joseph Romeo, I feel alot of hard work went into compiling the site. He has done a splendid job,it is great. I would like to know if there are any records listing HarryDurham as the son of Jeremiah Durham and Margaret A. Dean 1830-1908 as theirson?
I saw where Harry Durham is listed as a child in that family, md. to Ida(...).
This is telling me that Harry Durham was Rebecca Durham's brother. It isalso telling me that Aunt Ida married her mother's brother (or her uncle).
Not saying this is not possible, but I have a copy of g-grandmother's deathcertificate, which states her father was John Mosley, mother unknown. Didshe marry a Dean before she married the Durham or after. Since the deathcertificate I have states Durham, I assume she must have married the Deanbefore. I have never heard anyone in our family ever mention this.
Are there any records? If so, please let me know where I can view theserecords. With our families marrying so close, maybe this is why we are allgoing crazy/ or should have been (born) that way.
Our family used all three spellings in their names.
---------------------
B&R Terry
Subj: RE: Sammons familyDate: 07/03/2000 10:19:02 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Thanks for the responses below. Finally getting around to your question:
>> A question for you -- just noticed that we do not know>> how the Mosley brothers' wives are related:>> Clifton Mosley (1893-1918) married>> Betrtha Edna Sammons (died 1943)>> Charles Milton Mosley (1892-1960)>> married Mae Sammons (1896-1968)>> Do you have parents for either or both Sammons girls?
This is strange. I have Clifton Mosley and Bertha Edna Sammons in my file, but absolutely no trace of a Charles Milton Mosley or a Mae Sammons. And, in looking at my data on the siblings/parents of Clifton Mosley, I see that my source mentions I obtained the data from the Mitsawokett site, (although I can tell my the way I worded my source reference that it was a couple of years ago--back when the site was new). This is odd that I would have obtained the data from your site, but not have any reference of a Charles Milton Mosely if he was a brother. Was he added to the site later than the other siblings? I show a total of 11 children: 1. Geoffrey / Garfield "Ree" A. Mosley, b. 24 Jul 1885 2. Bessie Alice Mosley, b. 26 Nov 1888 3. Felix Mosley, b. 08 Jan 1890 4. Sarah Catherine Mosley, b. 24 Jan 1891 5. Clifton Mosley, Sr., b. 22 Sep 1893 6. Edith Pearl Mosley, b. 13 Feb 1895 7. Beulah Mosley, b. 06 Aug 1896 8. Mabel Mosley, b. 20 Apr 1898 9. Mary Elizabeth Mosley, b. 16 Sep 1899 10. Anna Jeanette Mosley, b. 04 Jan 1901 11. Rheba Dean Mosley, b. 10 Mar 1904
I guess there's "room" for Charles to fit-in between Sarah Catherine and Clifton.
So, I'm not able to assist with connecting Bertha Edna Sammons with Mae Sammons, since I had neither Charles nor Mae in my database. But, I can tell you the parents I have for Bertha Edna:
I show Bertha Edna as a daughter of Isaac Sammons, Jr. (b. May 1873) and Agnes M. Clark (b. May 1876). I also have Bertha Edna's birthdate as June 1895, which you apparently did not have. (Rec'd from Preston Sammons, Feb 98).
Hope this helps. If you can confirm any further details about Charles (or Mae), I would appreciate it. Thanks, and good luck! John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 12:02 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Sammons family
In a message dated 06/15/2000 10:09:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,spiff@ writes:
>
We don't have her parents.
> My Mom baby sister Mary Virginia Reed passed June 14th, in DC,in thehospital, from heart problems.>
Both the obit & funeral program say Jun 11. They are on the web site.
> Charles is the son of Harry Durham and Ida Munce.>> They married 11 Aug 1897, DE.>> Ida born Jun 1880, buried Fordville Cemetery,>> Fordville,Cumberland,New Jersey.>> No dates for Harry. Source -->>>> Subj: Re: Charles/Harry Durham>> Date: 99-10-21>> From: RWahoor>>>> ...Aunt Ida was married to Harry Durham.>> Harry & Ida had a son Charles Durham who>> married Margaret "Maggie" Ridgeway,>> daughter of John H. Ridgway & Minnie Durham.>> Minnie was my dad's aunt also. Ida was>> married to her 1st cousin. ...Minnie was a sister>> to Rebecca Durham Munson, my father mother.
New Question:
Do we know this Harry Durham's ancestry? Apparently we must, if he and Ida were 1st cousins. What is their 1st cousin relationship? Was Harry's father (name unknown to me) another child of Jeremiah Durham and Margaretta Mosley (the parents of Ida's mother Rebecca Durham)?
-----
~ ~ ~ Then, Betty & Ray responded on July 1st with the following, which includes a previous message from Rose Ridgeway:
-----
No. We just have the e-mail from Rose which you have partly cited above.She is in the dark too----
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 From: RWahoor@ Subject: RE: Ida Munson/Muncey/Munce
My father's sister Ida Munce, be. June 1880 was first married to Harry Durhamon Aug 11, 1897, De.
Aunt Ida and Uncle Harry had a son Charles H. Durham - b. May 1898 De., d.Oct 17, 1967 N.J. Buried in the Fordville Cemetery with his mother Ida. Lot
#73. Aunt Ida is the 1st grave, son Charles is the 2nd grave, one emptygrave on lot is left.
After Uncle Harry passed Aunt Ida lived as common-law wife of Nehemiah Durhamwho was first married to Margaret (nee-Carney). Margaret Carney was alsomarried to Charles Pritchett. (I believe before she md. Nehemiah Durham).
I don't have exact dates for Aunt Ida's death at this time, but she lived inDelaware all of her life. Just before she passed her son went to Delawareand brought her to New Jersey to live with him and his wife, so they couldcare for her while she was sick. Uncle Marr as we called Nehemiah was unableto care for her. She died in New Jersey and is buried in New Jersey. She isburied in the area of the Munson grave, her brothers Thomas, and my fatherFrank (Francis). There was never a tombstone placed on her grave or her sonCharles. But I know where the grave is located, because at the time both myfather and stepfather Herbert W. Hughes kept the cemetery records of thegraves. I do have the record. Her death date is not on the record. Onlythe lot and spot #.
Charles wife Margaret (nee-Ridgeway) was not buried in Fordville, sheremarried a man by the last name of Johnson and he had her buried in theCemetery on Greenwich Rd., Bridgeton, N.J. Her las name being MargaretJohnson at the time. Her husband refused to bury her along side her 1sthusband Charles.
As a young girl my parents would go to Delaware to see Aunt Ida, I rememberhe by the way she looked all wrinkled, short lady, smoked a corn cob pipe andalso smoked unfiltered cigarettes "Camels" and cigars. She would smoke themdown and then take a bobby pin or a tooth pic to finish them. She neverwasted any of the cigar or cigarettes.
I think this answers your questions, however is all can be a littleconfusing. I have a few question myself, I would like to ask some of you.
For Fact: I know that Aunt Ida's son Charles H. Durham was married toMargaret (nee-Ridgeway) Durham, dau. of John H. Ridgeway and Minnie(nee-Durham) Ridgeway.
Minnie Durham was a sister to Aunt Ida's mother Rebecca (nee-Durham) md.Charles Henry Munson/Muncey. Who are my grandparents.
My questions follows: I visited the Durham site, by Joseph Romeo, I feel alot of hard work went into compiling the site. He has done a splendid job,it is great. I would like to know if there are any records listing HarryDurham as the son of Jeremiah Durham and Margaret A. Dean 1830-1908 as theirson?
I saw where Harry Durham is listed as a child in that family, md. to Ida(...).
This is telling me that Harry Durham was Rebecca Durham's brother. It isalso telling me that Aunt Ida married her mother's brother (or her uncle).
Not saying this is not possible, but I have a copy of g-grandmother's deathcertificate, which states her father was John Mosley, mother unknown. Didshe marry a Dean before she married the Durham or after. Since the deathcertificate I have states Durham, I assume she must have married the Deanbefore. I have never heard anyone in our family ever mention this.
Are there any records? If so, please let me know where I can view theserecords. With our families marrying so close, maybe this is why we are allgoing crazy/ or should have been (born) that way.
-----
~ ~ ~ Joseph -- Anything which you might have which would clear up Harry's ancestry would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your help! John
Subj: RE: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of DoverDate: 07/04/2000 7:09:29 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Lorraine. The Terrys and I never heard back from JoAnne (JSammbird) on these questions, below. Since you had corresponded with her, were you able to sort out the family connections in these questions? Thanks for your help! John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 11:42 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover
We have the same questions. Was Mazie's maiden name Foraker?
-------------------------------------------Aquabetty@
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 9:58 PMTo: 'AquaBetty@'; 'JSammbird@'Subject: RE: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover
Hi, Ray & Betty, and JoAnne.
I had a couple of questions about the obituary attached in the message below.
1. How could Millie have had a surviving grandson with the last name Foraker (her own maiden name)? Weren't all of her children named Sammons? Or was there another pre-deceased child not mentioned?
2. Who is the granddaughter Kaylinn Rodriguez the daughter of?
3. Do we know what the correct spelling of Krammer vs. Kramer is? It's listed both ways in the obituary.
Thanks again! John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 12:34 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover
In a message dated 01/30/2000 9:16:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,spiff@ writes:
>
Yes. [See below]
-----------------------------
Subj: Re: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of DoverDate: 99-09-18From: JSammbird (JoAnne)To:LFREIDA 15
Glendon Sammons is the son of William (deceased) and Sarah Eunice Sammons.
William is Al's uncle on his mother's side. He and Al's mother, Millie, werebrother and sister.
Glendon is Al's cousin. Some of his sisters are Betty Seeney, CarmellaStanton.
-------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 12:04 PMTo: spiff@; psam@; LFREIDA15@; Wicomicowm@; wahoor@Subject: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover
Hi all,
Is Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover, mentioned in the obit below, the son of Charles (b 1923) and Esther Glendora (Hughes) Sammons?
Mildred Helen 'Millie' Sammons, 53
DOVER - Mildred Helen ''Millie'' Sammons of Dover died Monday, Sept. 13,1999, in Kent General Hospital, Dover. She was 53. Mrs. Sammons was born onSept. 23, 1945, the daughter of Franklin and Mildred Collins Foraker.
She worked as a nursing attendent at the Delaware Home for the ChronicallyIll, Smyrna, retiring in 1991. Mrs. Sammons loved to collect angels.
She is survived by her husband, Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover; two sons,Glendon Sammons Jr. and William Sammons, both of Dover; two daughters, MazieKrammer and her husband, Todd, of Magnolia, and Sarah Sammons of Dover; two grandsons, Jason Foraker and Will Krammer, both of Magnolia; and threegranddaughters, Kaylinn Rodriquez of Marydel, Md., Paige Kramer and MandyKramer, both of Dover.
Service will be 11 a.m. Saturday at Immanuel United Union Methodist Church, Cheswold, where friends may call one hour prior to service. Burial will be in the church cemetery. Instead of flowers, family suggests contributionsto: American Heart Association, 625 South State St., Dover, DE 19901.
---------
B&R
Subj: FW: MacDonald Coker questionDate: 07/05/2000 6:52:17 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty. A response from Marian, below, for your info. John
-----Original Message-----From: MAC [SMTP:m.a.coker@worldnet.]Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 10:49 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: MacDonald Coker question
Hello John,
I am sorry I have not responded before now. I have been very busy with thechildren. To answer these questions:I am not sure who was the of Clarence and Cecilia.MacDonald knew that Celcilia was his mother but Rebecca and Alonzo took himas their own. I will ask for more information and send it to you.
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter To: 'm.a.coker@worldnet.' Date: Monday, July 03, 2000 10:31 PMSubject: RE: MacDonald Coker question
> Hi, Marian.> Hope all is well with you.> I was curious about Betty & Ray's message below, and was wondering if youhad any information about the connections?> Thanks!> John>>>-----Original Message----->From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]>Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 4:03 PM>To: m.a.coker@worldnet.>Cc: spiff@>Subject: MacDonald Coker question>>Hi Marian,>>Following is a note you sent to John Carter a year ago+. Please clear>something up for us. Under #7 Alonzo below, you say that Rebecca had 3>children before she married Alonzo. We knew that Norace Carney's (one ofmy>parent's best friends--we really loved him) father was probably a Muntz.>Did the other kids (Clarence, Cecilia) have the same father?>>But what we really want to know is the part about Cecilia having 3 children>including MacDonald T. Coker. MacDonald's obituary claims that hisparents>were Rebecca and Alonzo. Did MacDonald go thru life thinking Rebecca washis>mother and Cecilia his sister when Cecilia was really his mother, just like>the actor Jack Nicholson, whose grandmother pretended to be his mother and>his mother pretended to be his sister?>>>From: MAC[SMTP:m.a.coker@worldnet.]>Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 10:25 AM>To: John C. Carter>Subject: Additions and corrections>>Hi John,> Under Daniel Coker # 96 Eddie Coker his daughter #153 should beMichelle>( Shelly is a nickname) she married a Duke and has two children.>># 7 Alonzo> Rebecca had three children before she married Alonzo> 1. Clarence Carney> 2. Norace Carney b. 2/18/1912 d. 3/3/1983> 3. Cecilia Carney had three children MacDonald T. Coker, Diane,>Marvin Carney>
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Mary Priscilla Ridgeway Mosley / Robert "Bob" SammonsDate: 07/04/2000 7:34:34 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
Hi, Betty & Ray.
On March 5th/6th at 12:00am, you sent a message to the list (in response to a question from me), and you referenced a letter from Bill Davis to Sandy Marshall. Included were the following comments:
>> Regarding Mary Priscilla Ridgeway: her sister>> was Elizabeth Ridgeway, her brother-in-law was>> Robert (Bob) Sammons (Salmons), her other>> sisters were Aunt Hester and Aunt Teen (nickname).>> I knew their sons who lived about a mile from me.
I was trying to figure out how this Robert (Bob) Sammons might fit in, and happened to notice a Robert Sammons, son of Benjamin Sammons and Lydia Ann Munce. I don't have dates on this Robert, but he seems to be at about the right generational level, based on the dates of his parents, and then compared to the dates of possible sister-in-law Mary Priscilla. Do you think this is the correct one? Then, I also happened to notice that this Robert, son of Benjamin, has a sister named Christina "Tene" Sammons. This seemed very coincidental that Bill Davis was mentioning that Mary Priscilla had a sister named "Teen." Do you think he may have meant to say Hester and Teen were sisters of Bob, rather than of Mary Priscilla? Just trying to get these connections figured out.... Thanks! John
John C. Carter
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Mary Priscilla Ridgeway Mosley / Robert "Bob" SammonsDate: 07/05/2000 11:13:22 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: AquaBettyTo: Mitsawokett@
In a message dated 07/04/2000 7:34:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
>
We show Benjamin SAMMONS and Lydia MUNCE with children --
Minnie Munce b 1856Susan Munce b 1867Robert Munce nbdChristina "Tene" Sammons b 1869Brady C. Sammons b 1876
but don't have any notation why the surnames are different.
Preston Sammons wrote --
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: Chief Clarks' GenealogyDate: 99-03-03From: psam@ (Preston L. Sammons)
I have speculated that Roberts parents were William SAMMONS b. 1792 and Catherine b. 1799. I have Elizabeth RIDGEWAY as the daughter of Tillman JACK/RIDGEWAY b. 1819 and Sina MOSLEY b. 1824.
Tillman was listed in 1850 and 1860, under the name of Jack. In 1880 the family was listed as Ridgway, their son Tillman and his wife were still listed as Jack, then in 1900 they all were listed in the Census as Ridgway. I received this information from Lorraine Gregg.
>
Sandy sent --
> different
On June 11th, I responded with the following:
>> Just to clarify for those who might be confused by this:>> Susan Munce/Muntz and Susan Sammons are one->> and-the-same person. Her father was Benjamin>> Sammons (I have him as b. Feb 1837) and her mother>> was Lydia Ann Munce (I have: b. Sep 1832, d. 1908),>> and there is some question as to Benjamin & Lydia's>> marital status. Apparently theirs was a common-law>> marriage (illegitimate). Therefore, some of the>> children have been referenced as Munce/Muntz and>> some as Sammons. I don't have documentation>> on which children were "officially" listed under each>> surname.
Thanks for the excerpts from Preston and Sandy. I was familiar with the one from Sandy, as you had already posted it here on the list, and in fact was the post that I had referred to (& copied from) in order to pose my questions. (Not sure if you realized this, and were just re-posting for the group's benefit....)
Anyway, perhaps diligence will one day clear uncover more data about Robert "Bob" Sammons, etc.
Thanks! John
John C. Carter
Subj: RE: New member needs helpDate: 07/12/2000 6:46:48 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Did Suzy's message contain any attachments, perhaps listing names & dates? At the bottom of your message to the Mitsawokett group, I got the old reliable line: "[This message contained attachments]." Otherwise, I'm not sure how she expects to get any help, when she didn't even give any names or dates for us to look at. Thanks, John
Subj: RE: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of DoverDate: 07/13/2000 10:33:31 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: JSammbird@ ('JSammbird@')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, JoAnne. Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry to hear about your mother's passing. My father passed away on March 16th as well. The questions were in the same message I sent you on the 9th, just further down in the e-mail. I've pasted them here below as well. Thanks again! John
-----Original Message-----From: JSammbird@ [SMTP:JSammbird@]Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2000 10:25 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover
Hi,
No - I am sorry to say I have not. My mother passed away the last part ofMarch and to be truthful I had totally forgotten about it. Refresh my memory.
Thank you,
JoAnne
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2000 9:49 PMTo: 'JSammbird@'Cc: 'Terry, Betty & Ray'Subject: RE: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover
Hello, JoAnne. Just thought I would check in, and see if you had had a chance to look over the questions we had from back in March? Thanks very much for your help! John
-----Original Message-----From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2000 9:58 PMTo: 'AquaBetty@'; 'JSammbird@'Subject: RE: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover
Hi, Ray & Betty, and JoAnne.
I had a couple of questions about the obituary attached in the message below.
1. How could Millie have had a surviving grandson with the last name Foraker (her own maiden name)? Weren't all of her children named Sammons? Or was there another pre-deceased child not mentioned?
2. Who is the granddaughter Kaylinn Rodriguez the daughter of?
3. Do we know what the correct spelling of Krammer vs. Kramer is? It's listed both ways in the obituary.
Thanks again! John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 12:34 AMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover
In a message dated 01/30/2000 9:16:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,spiff@ writes:
>
Yes. [See below]
-----------------------------
Subj: Re: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of DoverDate: 99-09-18From: JSammbird (JoAnne)To:LFREIDA 15
Glendon Sammons is the son of William (deceased) and Sarah Eunice Sammons.
William is Al's uncle on his mother's side. He and Al's mother, Millie, werebrother and sister.
Glendon is Al's cousin. Some of his sisters are Betty Seeney, CarmellaStanton.
-------------------------------------------
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 12:04 PMTo: spiff@; psam@; LFREIDA15@; Wicomicowm@; wahoor@Subject: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover
Hi all,
Is Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover, mentioned in the obit below, the son of Charles (b 1923) and Esther Glendora (Hughes) Sammons?
Mildred Helen 'Millie' Sammons, 53
DOVER - Mildred Helen ''Millie'' Sammons of Dover died Monday, Sept. 13,1999, in Kent General Hospital, Dover. She was 53. Mrs. Sammons was born onSept. 23, 1945, the daughter of Franklin and Mildred Collins Foraker.
She worked as a nursing attendent at the Delaware Home for the ChronicallyIll, Smyrna, retiring in 1991. Mrs. Sammons loved to collect angels.
She is survived by her husband, Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover; two sons,Glendon Sammons Jr. and William Sammons, both of Dover; two daughters, MazieKrammer and her husband, Todd, of Magnolia, and Sarah Sammons of Dover; two grandsons, Jason Foraker and Will Krammer, both of Magnolia; and threegranddaughters, Kaylinn Rodriquez of Marydel, Md., Paige Kramer and MandyKramer, both of Dover.
Service will be 11 a.m. Saturday at Immanuel United Union Methodist Church, Cheswold, where friends may call one hour prior to service. Burial will be in the church cemetery. Instead of flowers, family suggests contributionsto: American Heart Association, 625 South State St., Dover, DE 19901.
---------
B&R
Subj: RE: Morgans (& DNA)Date: 07/14/2000 11:04:34 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty. Believe it or not, this message was still in my Inbox waiting to be answered! (Actually, there are a lot of "oldies" in there that I've never gotten around to yet). Guess I was feeling industrious this evening!
Anyway, came across one discrepancy:
You have Will Morgan listed as William Harry Morgan (son of Napoleon). But I have him as William HENRY Morgan. (Don't have a note as to the source; if yours was not a typo I will have to dig to find where I got mine).
RE: this part:
>> Grace's grandmother, we learned from Wilson's>> brother, was convinced that Willard was Betty's father....>> I would like to find Willard's two kids and see if there>> is a resemblance, but wiser minds rule here--Betty's.>> No need to monkey with the kids' memory of their dad.>> Some day our kids or grandchildren might want to know.>> That will be a job they will have to do by themselves.
Yes, this is something that a future generation might be interested in, on either side. Don't mean this to sound morbid, but perhaps Betty should consider leaving a DNA sample somewhere for posterity! :-) There is a similar situation on my paternal side, but a few generations further back. As you know, my great-grandfather Hopewell U. Carter, Sr. was an illegitimate child. The family always knew he was the son of a wealthy Dr. Hardcastle in Maryland, and for a while, there seemed to be some occasional communication between the Hardcastles and the Cartys/Carters, if family stories are to be believed. Alas, there is no documentary proof that Hopewell was the son of Dr. Alexander Hardcastle, other than the circumstantial evidence that Hopewell's death certificate gives his father's name as "Alexander Carter." I've always explained this to myself as there having been one of a couple of things that happened when the officials asked the informant the name of Hopewell's father: either they replied merely "Alexander" and the official assumed it was Alexander Carter, or the informant "fibbed" and replied "Alexander Carter" to avoid embarrassment or controversy. Now, in this day of DNA testing and other marvels, a possibility to "somewhat" document this has arrived: A distant cousin of mine on the Hardcastle side is willing to undergo a DNA test, to establish that he and I are related. This can be done with one of the "simpler" DNA tests, as we are both descended through a male line from a common male ancestor. With Betty being female, the method would be somewhat different. Right now, the only thing keeping me from pursuing the DNA test with my cousin is the cost: $400 per sample (and I told my cousin that--if I did pursue it--I would pay for his cost, since he is already established as a Hardcastle--it's my line that's illegitimate), so it would be $800. I don't have that kind of money to "throw away." However, I'd be very curious to see whether such organizations as the SAR or DAR would accept such results as eligibility for a documented Revolutionary ancestor. I have at least two otherwise-eligible ancestors that connect down though my Hardcastle line, perhaps more. This DNA test would not prove that I was a descendant of Dr. Alexander Hardcastle, but it would prove that my cousin and I are descended from the same male ancestor at some point back in time. Would this, when presented along with the circumstantial and familial evidence, be enough? It's a lot of money to pay for something that might not achieve anything other than settle the issue in my mind. We'll see.... I received the price quote from one particular lab, after contacting a few of them several months ago. But there was another lab that was expecting to begin offering such tests after the end of July--maybe as more companies start offering this, the cost will come down. John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 9:48 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Morgans
Named on Betty's birth certificate (the original) was Nelson Morgan, brother to Harry N. Morgan. Some in her family disagree, probably based on Betty's color and other facial features. Nelson and Harry had a healthy (permanent) tan. The other candidate was lily white. Wilson Davis adopted her at age 18. She lived till then with Wilson as surname. Henrietta Morgan lives in the home at Cheswold, but put us off when we tried to visit.
Referring to your earlier comments about problemmatic marital status -- we have to chortle from time to time at what we run into -- "Just Cheswold!!" is the refrain. We imagine many farming communities had the same problem, keeping the boys and girls out of the hayloft!
Harry and Nelson's father, Mr. Will Morgan, started the trucking company now known (if it is still in business) as the Preston 151 line. William Harry Morgan, son of Napoleon Bonaparte Morgan. We show William with children Harry, Nelson and Cora. Do you know of any others?
Nelson Morgan was a neer-do-well, getting drunk and loving all the girls. He died in an auto crash 20-25 years ago. We have not looked for the death records. His brother Harry was a used-car dealer and was once caught and fined for rolling back odometers!
We could not talk to the Morgans during their lifetime because Wilson Davis became upset whenever Betty brought up the name. We don't know whether he was concerned about Nelson or because we might find out someone else was involved.
Grace Wilson, Betty's mom, was one of the young kids hired out. She lived-in at Mrs. Boyce's grocery store in Cheswold. Her son, Willard, who later became Sec. of State of Delaware--VERY white--was the about same age as Grace. Grace's grandmother, we learned from Wilson's brother, was convinced that Willard was Betty's father. By the time Wilson passed on, Grace's mind was gone.
I would like to find Willard's two kids and see if there is a resemblance, but wiser minds rule here--Betty's. No need to monkey with the kids' memory of their dad.
Some day our kids or grandchildren might want to know. That will be a job they will have to do by themselves.
She and I are impressed with all the work you and Don and Joseph do. Keep it up!
Ray
Subj: RE: Carter / Carty Indian reference(s)Date: 07/14/2000 11:05:02 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn')
Hello, all. Digging though old unanswered messages in my Inbox.
I just tried to re-look at this message, and it STILL fries my brain!
I'm not going to dwell on it. At this point, I can't even begin to concentrate on the George William vs. George Washington, or the George Thomas vs. George Taft.
However, part of my surviving brain wonders about the two Anna/Annie Elizabeth Cartys/Carters. Sounds like one might be the daughter of George & Lina (and married Nehemiah Durham), and the other a daughter of William Washington Carty/Carter and Sarah Morgan (and married to George E. Mosley). In other words, two Anna/Annies as first cousins to each other.
One question: My records show Nehemiah Durham to be a son of William Durham, b. 1818, d. ca. 1858 and Mahala Songo?/Durham, b. 1822, d. unk. I have no parents listed for this William in my file. Then, as a separate person in my file, I have a William Durham, b. 09 Feb 1819, d. 16 Aug 1857, as a son of George and Susan Durham. I have no spouse listed for this William in my file.
Are these two Williams one-and-the-same??? Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----From: AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 1:06 AMTo: spiff@; JACKLYN001@; LFREIDA15@Subject: Re: Carter / Carty Indian reference(s)
Hi John,
Well, we are getting around to the bloodletting.
You sent us the following lineage. Two problems: 1) George Washington Carter. We have evidence that the name should be George William Carter. 2) We are not sure, now, that George William's father is your George Thomas.
Weslager's notes: "I had a good time talking to Levi Mosley, gave him the cigar I always took to him. He carved several things from gourds for me. He introduced me to George Carter whose father was a herb doctor. George was on his way to cut down a tree but he paused to talk. I understand that he is Ida Carter's grandfather. He is very white. Levi says that his mother was very white too. There is a suggestion of Indian in his face."
---Ida Carter is George Elwood "Dick" Carter's daughter, now known as Ida Webster, residing at Fairton, N.J. (near Bridgeton). Her grandfather would be George William Carter. The herb doctor would be George T. Carter.
---Ida's daughter Libby Webster Pierce says: "see 'Delaware's Forgotten Folks.' George William's father was George William Carter, chief ofTanapeke(?) Indians." She verified this at Georgetown, Del on route 113, 1 hour below Dover. Sally Carney Carter also Indian, records at Georgetown, Del. Also at Nanticoke Indian Museum, Millsboro, Del., at intersection of Rt 24 and Rt 5.
Something is getting tangled here. George William, son of George William? We went to Millsboro and they could provide no assistance here. Maybe we were the wrong color or not from Millsboro.
Manship cemetery inscription: George W. Carter 1873 - 1954
Family Bible owned by George Elwood Carter, in poss of Ida Webster 9/97 attached (transcribed by BDT). Names Geoge Elwood's father: George William Carter.
[George Elwood Carter death cert #518 Delaware 17 Feb 1971. Father is George W. Carter, mother Sally Carbet (?) -- doesn't help with middle name confusion. ]
Birth and death dates from a BDT group sheet, source Mrs. Mary Durham letter to Wilson Davis March, 1991. Buried at Manship (years only on marker). Letter: "George W. Carter, born Cheswold, Delaware, born Dec 15, 1873, deceased March 2, 1954 age 81 yrs, 2 mos, 15 dys. Sally B. Carter, Kent County, Delaware Jan 6 1876, deceased Dec 10, 1956, Smyrna, Delaware, 80 yrs, 11 mos, 4 dys.
George Washington Carter's birth date differs from George William Carter's --26 Jan 1871 vs. 15 Dec 1873. Maybe there is confusion between two different George W.'s -- one Washington and one William.
-----
As to George T. (Taft? Thomas?) Carter's wife, Lina --
Marriage cert Nehemiah & Annie E. "Cartey" Durham regis. 18360-1892 mother of Nehemiah Durham is Mahalia Durham, mother of Anna is Lina Cartey, but Anna's death cert 2818 Kent County, 1915 says mother is Liney Mosley, father George T. Carter.
Nehemiah & Annie Durham's son, Isaiah "Zed" Durham, is the source of the name George Taft Carter and about the "Chief of Nine Bridges" tale. We might add that Sarah Seeney Sullivan related the same tale quite independantly. Something happened years ago to cause this story to be handed down. Whether we have the right person is up in the air. Anyone have local sources for that area of Maryland/
We made the connection from George William Carter to George Thomas Carter on the basis of similarities. BIG mistake! Our George T. (Taft, questionably) to your George T. (Thomas). Both marrying Lina ---. Both having a daughter Annie Elizabeth Carty/Carter. Both from the Ridgely area. But --- no hard evidence. On the basis of the evidence you cite that your Annie married a Mosley and the possible name difference, we have unlinked our Annie as a daughter of George Thomas Carty. Our Annie died in 1915 at too young an age to have been married twice.
----------
Regarding Lynn's comments/question:
>> I found the following reference on pg. 165 in Weslagers book (compiled c. 1940) >> and there is a photo of a "George Carter- Moor herbalist" opposite page 138.>> " The last practising herbalist in Cheswold died about ten years ago (c. 1930??). His son, George Carter, now in his eightieth year (born say, 1860???) on occasion still prescribed for his family and neighbors and resorts to some of the herbs which his father used so successfully in the past". his George (b.c. 1860) is way to young to be the son of William and Elizabeth CARTY and, since his herbalist father's name is not given, we can't tell who is was from this. My CARTY notes are a bit confused but did William's son, George married to Lina Mosley(?) , have a son named George????
If we are dealing with two different George T. Carters, the lineages are different and your comment about "George (b.c. 1860) is way to young to be the son of William and Elizabeth CARTY" may not apply.
---------
John says:
"HOWEVER, I see some discrepancies when compared to Betty & Ray's 'Descendants of James McCarty' report. They have George Thomas Carty's son as George WILLIAM Carter with a birthdate of 15 Dec 1873). (???) Ray & Betty: What is the source of your info? My source is the death certificate of George Washington Carter, birthdate 26 Jan 1871, death date 02 Mar 1954, spouse Sarah Carter, father George Carter, mother unknown, informant Edith Carter [his daughter]."
The father of George Washington Carter is George Carter. Which one? Mother unknown.
-----------John said:
"Ray & Betty also have Sarah Virginia Carter (who married Earl Jeremiah Ridgeway, Sr.) as a daughter of George Thomas Carty, and have Sarah's birthdate estimated as 1876. But this doesn't fit with Senamoon's claim--she said Sarah's GRANDfather was George Carter, but if she was a daughter of George Thomas Carty, then her grandfather would have been WILLIAM Carty."
Perhaps talking about different George Carters. We are discussing this perhaps in ignorance. We need to look at the Maryland records, especially those on file at the county courthouse in Denton, Caroline, Maryland.
----------
John says:
"Ray & Betty: What is the source of Sarah's estimated birthdate? The reason I ask is: Earl Jeremiah's birth year was given as 1885 by Rose.Although certainly not impossible for a woman in that era to be married to a man 9 years her junior, it seems a bit unusual. We usually find it the other way around, with the man older. However, if the 1876 birthdate for Sarah is suspect, and if her birthdate was more in the vicinity of say, 1890, then perhaps she could be a daughter of George Washington Carter instead of George Thomas Carty. Then, Senamoon's claim of Sarah being the granddaughter of a George Carter would be correct."
Sarah Virginia's age is 4 in the 1880 census. (The 2 ages by George's name are a notation to ourselves, the meaning of which has been lost in the mists of our vaporized brain cells.)
1880 Federal Census (Nat'l Archives, Wash, DC): West Dover Hundred, Kent, Delaware.
sex age bornCARTER, George T. m 48?53? Md age discrepancy (needs rechecking)Eliz f 14 Del (Lina, William and Rosella no longer listed)George W. m 7 DelJennie f 4 Del
----------
John said:
"...on note #3 you mention that George Thomas Carty's middle name was claimed to be 'Taft' by Isaiah 'Zed' Durham, but that more research was needed to determine if really 'Thomas.' Just wanted to give you a note/reminder that the Carty / Wyatt Bible has his middle name as 'Thomas.'"
We agree that the Bible says George Thomas -- but he's YOUR George Thomas -- mine may be George Taft and not directly related to those in the Bible.
----------
John said: "Another linking glitch." We will be replacing all the pages soon.
---------
John said: "You mentioned that Ray & Betty's site has Annie Elizabeth Carty as a daughter of George Thomas Carty and Lina Mosley. I did not have this in my records. Like you, I had (an) Annie Elizabeth Carty as a daughter of William Washington Carty (George Thomas Carty's brother), and furthermore, I show her as married to George E. Mosley, not Nehemiah Durham. Were there TWO Annie Elizabeth Cartys?"
We see a Manship inscription:"William H. Mosley 28 Feb 1887 - 16 Jun 1912, son of George E. & Elizabeth"
Is this the George E. & (Annie?) Elizabeth you mean?
We saw a comment by John about George E. and Elizabeth --
"8. Regarding Catherine Mosely Mosely (wife of Roosevelt Mosely) being the daughter of Herbert Mosely, who was in turn the son of George E. Mosely and Elizabeth Carter.... Who are these people? I don't have either this George E. Mosely nor Elizabeth Carter in my FTM. Do you know each of their parents? This Elizabeth Carter has me curious!"
Annie Elizabeth Carter Durham, born 6 Apr 1866, died 23 Jan 1915. Do the dates match your Annie Elizabeth Carter? And she been married only once -- note the marriage record below --
Groom: DURHAM, Nehemiah, age 42, colored, residence Smyrna Previous marriages: 1, laborer Bride: CARTEY, Annie Elizabeth, age 27, colored, residence Smyrna Previous marriages: 0 Place: Smyrna, Delaware Date: 15 Sep 1892 Minister: W. H. Thomas Source: Kent Co. Marriages and Return Reference: Vol 72 p 9 Vol 90 p 160 Groom's parents: William and Mahalia Durham of Kent Co., Delaware Bride's parents: George and Lina Cartey of Delaware Certificate given: 3 Oct 1892 Received & filed: 1 Dec 1892 by James Virdin, rec.
---------
Lorraine said:
1 Annie (Elizabeth) Carty b in MD about 1867 m George Mosley they were parents of: Lola Mosley m Elwood Brown, Elmira Mosley m Roscoe Miller, Herbert Mosley ( father of Catherine Mosley Mosley by Anna Carney Gould.) I don't know if Herbert ever got m again.
--------
A lot of questions = a lot of digging to do!
Cheers!!
B&R >
From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 12:09 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Annie Elizabeth Carty
Hi John,
How's the weather down there? I hope Floyd doesn't hit you all too hard.
This Carty/Carter thing is making me dizzy. I think we need more records. And the dates never agree from Census to Census. I don't have enough records to link George W, and George E, or some of the Williams Carty/Carter's to their proper families.
Some of what I do have, starting at the top
Wm. Carty and Elizabeth had sons Wm. Washington and George T. among others, all b and raised in Caroline County Md.
Wm. Washington b April 15, 1818, per Maybelle Boardley, m Sarah Morgan George T b March 8, 1827, m Lena/Lina (Mosley?)
1870 census De.Carter Wm. W age 50 works on farm b Md. Sallie age 26 Keeping house b De William age 67 at home (No relationship designated) a little young to be father of Wm. W above, also b in MD.) William age 8 at home b in Md. John N age 6 "" (Looks like John N he used John A) Annie E age 2 " " Elmira age 1 " b in De John A age 45 works on farm b in MD. This Annie E is the one that m George E. Mosley (often referred to as just Elizabeth by the family). Elmira age one is the one that m Robert Johnson m my gfathers brother and d very young, leaving four children. Robert remarried Zepporah Mosley. William age 8, m Maude Mae Ridgway and second Isabelle Snowden. He was William Eugene (always called Gene)
1870 Census DeCarter George T age 35 works on farm b MD Lena age 24 Keeping house Annie E age 4 (some records looks like Emma E) William age 3
This is probably Lynn's Annie E that m Nehemiah Durham. Who is this William age three?
Then I only have one 1900 Census DeCarter George W b Oct 1872 Sallie B b June 1879 Eva M b Jan 1898 son not named b May 1900 0/12We need a 1910 Census record to tell us the unnamed sons name, and the rest of the children. Family info there were 12 children by this m.
This is the only George W. Carter that I have in my paper files, I have George E. Carter, b June 1900, the father of Ida Carter Webster but I don't have written who his father was. All that information is on Aqua Betties web site given to her by Ida Carter Webster.
Hope this helps a little Lorraine
Subj: Re: Morgans (& DNA); William Durham; Annie E.CarterDate: 07/15/2000 1:01:53 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: AquaBettyTo: spiff@
In a message dated 07/14/2000 11:04:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
>
We have him as Henry/Harry in the PAF database. Can't find the source for Harry. Probably a nickname. We will use Henry & make a note of Harry as a probable AKA.
DNA testing sounds like a good idea. We have to find out the part of the body which could be detached now and would keep for future testing. I believe all that is necessary for live testing is a scraping of the mucous lining of the mouth. Archaeologists harvest teeth for DNA testing.
Just read a book, "African Exodus," which explains the reasoning for the conclusion that all of mankind stems from Africa between 100,000-200,000 years ago. The evidence presented sounds pretty convincing. Those who have a "race" agenda want to believe that man evolved in different places at about the same time which would account for the brilliance of the yellow and white races, dumbing down to the darker folks. This argument is still alive, but barely.
Chromosome 12 contains a couple of unique stretches which vary slightly from "race" to "race." There is a lot of variation in these stretches within Africa, but the entire world outside of Africa has just two variations! Which fits the scenario that 100-200K years ago (based on other DNA & archaeological evidence) a couple of different small tribes or bands of Africans migrated out of Africa and gradually filled the world. Tho it seems like a long time ago, genetically it is not long enough for the 12 stretches to have changed by mutation, and, of course, the Africans who remained were composed of populations which had the 2 plus other variations.
Mothers pass on mitochondrial DNA and fathers Y DNA, so matrilineal and patriarchal lines can be traced, as you and Thomas Jefferson's descendants have found. But not specifically to one individual--just to siblings. Which would be good enough for you and for us!
We would hope so, but have no evidence to link them. Can't merge them on the basis of similar dates--look what happened to us when we merged 2 George T. Carters and 2 Anna Elizabeth Carters. This is Betty's lineage. We would dearly love to sort it out. We are really too busy at this point to spend weeks at the Archives.
Thanks for sending Lorraine's note. Had not seen it.
We are working on your ideas to modify the text we had put together on the Menu page. We will leave it as now constituted (most of the text excised) and put together a page of commentary and puzzles, to be linked to from the end of the truncated Menu text.
Thanks for your dedication to this work. We find it fascinating and rewarding.
Ray
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Zadock Muntz - Civil War VeteranDate: 07/14/2000 6:40:00 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
Hello, Joseph & all.
On July 13th, Joseph wrote:
>> Does anyone have copies of the pension>> application for Zadock Muntz? I find it listed>> under the name Zeddick Muntz in the index;>> widow Elmira.
Yes, Joseph. I have copies of his entire pension file. Would you like copies? Need me to look up something? Let me know.... John P.S. For those who may not know, Isaiah "Zaddock" / "Zadock" / "Zeddick" Munce / Muntz (Mar 1835 - 02 Jun 1905) was the son of Robert Munce Jr. and Jemina A. Handsor / Hansor / Hanzer. (Jemina's maiden name is given as Hansor on her & Robert's marriage bond, per Harry Muncey, and their daughter Mary Elizabeth Munce Sammons' death certificate lists her mother's maiden name as Hanzer. However, their daughter Angelina Munce / Munson Dean's death certificate gives her mother's maiden name as Okea). Zaddock's wife was Elmira Carty / Carter, illegitimate daughter of Rebecca Carty / Carter by James Mason. (Zaddock was my first cousin 4 times removed, and Elmira was my first cousin 3 times removed). (Zaddock is buried at Manship / Immanuel Union Cemetery, in Cheswold, Kent Co, DE).
John C. Carter
Subj: FW: James E.H. Durham, grandson of Joel?Date: 07/16/2000 7:57:23 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie')
Now that I think about it, I'm sure Debbie has told me this before as well. John
-----Original Message-----From: RomeoJA@ [SMTP:RomeoJA@]Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 7:42 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: James E.H. Durham, grandson of Joel?
In a message dated 07/16/00 12:08:18 Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
Hi John,
>From former discussions on this topic, it appears that Martha was the daughter of Huey Durham by a previous wife. Unfortunately, Huey does not appear in any census record that I can find prior to 1870, so we are somewhat in the dark as to who this previous wife was.
Do we know when Martha passed away? Are her parents listed on her death certificate?
--Joseph.
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Zadock Muntz - Civil War VeteranDate: 07/17/2000 11:00:29 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
Hi, Joseph. Sorry it took me a couple of days to get back to you on this one.
On July 14th, you wrote:
>> I know that Isaiah/Zadock has been talked about>> on the list, with some confusion because he does>> not appear in the 1850 census (or he appears as>> Josiah, but then Josiah Munce is missing). I was>> thinking that the pension papers might give a>> complete date of birth for him, but as I recall now, I>> think applicants were only queried as to their age,>> not date of birth. Does the age on his application>> and on his military record correspond to a birth>> year of 1835?>> --Joseph.>> P.S. I do not need copies. Since the name was>> indexed as Zeddick, I thought someone may have>> tried to get copies and was told that there was no>> record on file.
Joseph, you are correct in that there is no listing for a specific birth date for Zaddock / Zeddock / Zeddick / etc. (His death is noted on the U.S. Pension Agency's "Pensioner Dropped" document as 02 Jun 1905). Following is the only listing referring to his age:
Document dated 17 Dec 1888: Age 51. (Would make him born 1837). Signed with his X mark.
Another interesting item in the records: On 29 Aug 1905, Joel Durham, age given as 86, supplied an affidavit on behalf of Zaddock's widow, stating that he had known the couple since they were children, and that Zaddock & Elmira's "wedding was held at his house" (Joel's house) on 29 Jan 1857. (Elsewhere in the records is an affidavit by Zaddock, in which the marriage date is listed as 24 Jan 1857 in Smyrna, DE, and is noted as having been "recorded in family Bible"). (The records also include a separate affidavit by Elmira, stating the marriage was 29 Jan 1857 in Smyrna, DE). (Was Joel "fibbing" for them in reference to the location? Or did "marriage" and "wedding" possibly mean different things back then, such as perhaps a reception-like function at Joel's house?)
There is another affidavit in the records, by someone endeavoring to substantiate the widow's claims, and he stated he found a record of the Rev. Piner Mansfield's weddings from that date, which included a listing for "Isaiah [Munsoe?] [Munroe?] [Mounse?] to Emeline Carter" (and implies that it took place in a Methodist church in Smyrna that was no longer there at the time of his affidavit), and he goes on to say that he believes the Rev. made an error in the names, and that he was satisfied that the claimants were legitimate. Apparently, he did not realize that "Zaddock/Zeddick" was a nickname for Isaiah. (By the way, this is the only time I've seen Elmira's name listed as "Emeline"). In fact, in now reading this document, I find it very interesting-- it makes some observations of the ethnicity of not only "Zed" and his widow, but of the group of people to which they belong. If others are interested, I may take the time to transcribe the document and post it to the list in its entirety.
As for the spelling / indexing of his name, it seems to appear mostly as "Zeddick Muntz" in these records. However, I have copies of a publication entitled "History and Roster of Maryland Volunteers, War of 1861-5," published in 1899, and it actually has his name spelled on the roster as "Zeddick Munty." But this was probably a transcriber's error of mistaking the cursive/handwritten Z for a Y.
Let me know if you have any comments or questions. Thanks! John
Subj: RE: Durham miscellanyDate: 07/17/2000 11:20:44 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: RomeoJA@ ('RomeoJA@')CC: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie')
Hi, Joseph.
Regarding: "What source(s) do you have for Elizabeth Carney as the wife of George W. Durham?"
...I had to search for a while on this one. I'd had the listing in my FTM so long, that I can tell it was from my very early entries, before I entered (or rather, knew how to enter!) sources. However, I had entered some sources for dates which were added later, and I THINK I have been able to track it down to notes that I took when I met with Lorraine Johnson Gregg in September of 1966. (Not sure, though). But I can't find all of these notes at the moment, and will need to continue looking.
I did find this excerpt from Jan Jackson in March 1997, a former member of our group. It makes no reference to Elizabeth's last name, but gives a nickname:
>> George Durham b 1847 married Elizabeth aka "Aunt Lizzie">> Cordelia b. 1869>> Horace b. 1875>> William b. 1884>> Elmer b. 1886>> George ca 1880
That's all for now. Thanks for the other info. Will try to follow-up in more detail soon. Let me know if you have any questions. John
-----Original Message-----From: RomeoJA@ [SMTP:RomeoJA@]Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2000 8:18 PMTo: spiff@Subject: Re: Durham miscellany
In a message dated 07/16/00 12:08:18 Eastern Daylight Time,spiff@ writes:
> My records show Nehemiah Durham to be a son>> of William Durham, b. 1818, d. ca. 1858 and>> Mahala Songo?/Durham, b. 1822, d. unk. I have>> no parents listed for this William in my file. Then,>> as a separate person in my file, I have a William>> Durham, b. 09 Feb 1819, d. 16 Aug 1857, as a>> son of George and Susan Durham. I have no>> spouse listed for this William in my file.>> Are these two Williams one-and-the-same???
And Ray & Betty's answer:
>> We would hope so, but have no evidence to link>> them. Can't merge them on the basis of similar>> dates--look what happened to us when we merged>> 2 George T. Carters and 2 Anna Elizabeth Carters.>> This is Betty's lineage. We would dearly love to>> sort it out. We are really too busy at this point to>> spend weeks at the Archives.
... I decided to check Joseph Romeo's website to see what he had on this, and he does indeed have these two Williams as one-and-the-same.
Joseph's site:
Mitsawokett site:
A couple of discrepancies:
For the list of children of Angelica "Annie" (Songo?) Durham and Hewitt "Hughey" Durham, Joseph's site has extra children: Huey Jr. (ca. Nov 1879 - aft. 1920). My data (mostly matches the Mitsawokett site) has extra children: Martha**, b. May 1855; Margaret, b. 1883; and Mabel. (Betty & Ray--My list is the same as yours, except you also have an Elisha--where did you get him?--and a Wilhemina, see next).
Betty & Ray: Your site has Wilhemina listed as a daughter of Angelica & Hugh, but my records have Wilhemina as Angelica's SISTER, not daughter--in other words, a daughter of William and Mahala. Wilhemina is only 12 years younger than Angelica. (In fact, you have her listed as a sister as well, but with no further data/descendants).
** Now that I think about it, the Martha on my list and the Mitsawokett list must be wrong, too, as Martha was born May 1855, and Angelica was born 1846 (only 9 years apart!). Betty and Ray: Have we discussed these discrepancies before? Joseph: Do you have this Martha accounted for elsewhere in your records? She was married to Enoch Durham, Sr.
- - - - -
Joseph: Below are a couple of items you perhaps didn't have:
Nehemiah Durham married (1) ______ Johnson, then (2) Annie Elizabeth Carter (06 Apr 1866 - 23 Jan 1915), on 12 Sep 1892 in Smyrna, Kent Co, DE. (This is on the Mitsawokett website). Oh, wait a minute, I see you have most of this on the Nehemiah page, but nothing is showing under the spouse name next to Nehemiah on the William page....
Wilmina (aka Wilhemina) Durham's dates: b. Apr 1858 - d. 14 May 1900, Dover, Kent Co, DE. She and John A. ("Kinsey") Carney were married in 1875.
OK, that's all on this one for now. Thanks, everyone. John
Subj: RE: William DurhamDate: 07/16/2000 11:28:50 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@)To: AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), RomeoJA@ ('Romeo, Joseph')CC: 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie')
Hi, Ray & Betty, and Joseph, and Debbie.
RE:
My Question to Ray & Betty:
>> My records show Nehemiah Durham to be a son>> of William Durham, b. 1818, d. ca. 1858 and>> Mahala Songo?/Durham, b. 1822, d. unk. I have>> no parents listed for this William in my file. Then,>> as a separate person in my file, I have a William>> Durham, b. 09 Feb 1819, d. 16 Aug 1857, as a>> son of George and Susan Durham. I have no>> spouse listed for this William in my file.>> Are these two Williams one-and-the-same???
And Ray & Betty's answer:
>> We would hope so, but have no evidence to link>> them. Can't merge them on the basis of similar>> dates--look what happened to us when we merged>> 2 George T. Carters and 2 Anna Elizabeth Carters.>> This is Betty's lineage. We would dearly love to>> sort it out. We are really too busy at this point to>> spend weeks at the Archives.
... I decided to check Joseph Romeo's website to see what he had on this, and he does indeed have these two Williams as one-and-the-same.
Joseph's site:
Mitsawokett site:
A couple of discrepancies:
For the list of children of Angelica "Annie" (Songo?) Durham and Hewitt "Hughey" Durham, Joseph's site has extra children: Huey Jr. (ca. Nov 1879 - aft. 1920). My data (mostly matches the Mitsawokett site) has extra children: Martha**, b. May 1855; Margaret, b. 1883; and Mabel. (Betty & Ray--My list is the same as yours, except you also have an Elisha--where did you get him?--and a Wilhemina, see next).
Betty & Ray: Your site has Wilhemina listed as a daughter of Angelica & Hugh, but my records have Wilhemina as Angelica's SISTER, not daughter--in other words, a daughter of William and Mahala. Wilhemina is only 12 years younger than Angelica. (In fact, you have her listed as a sister as well, but with no further data/descendants).
** Now that I think about it, the Martha on my list and the Mitsawokett list must be wrong, too, as Martha was born May 1855, and Angelica was born 1846 (only 9 years apart!). Betty and Ray: Have we discussed these discrepancies before? Joseph: Do you have this Martha accounted for elsewhere in your records? She was married to Enoch Durham, Sr.
- - - - -
Joseph: Below are a couple of items you perhaps didn't have:
Nehemiah Durham married (1) ______ Johnson, then (2) Annie Elizabeth Carter (06 Apr 1866 - 23 Jan 1915), on 12 Sep 1892 in Smyrna, Kent Co, DE. (This is on the Mitsawokett website). Oh, wait a minute, I see you have most of this on the Nehemiah page, but nothing is showing under the spouse name next to Nehemiah on the William page....
Wilmina (aka Wilhemina) Durham's dates: b. Apr 1858 - d. 14 May 1900, Dover, Kent Co, DE. She and John A. ("Kinsey") Carney were married in 1875.
OK, that's all on this one for now. Thanks, everyone. John
Subj:
James E.H. Durham, grandson of Joel?Date:
07/16/2000 12:08:18 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
RomeoJA@ ('Romeo, Joseph')CC:
74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Joseph.
I had a quick question about your listing of James E(dward) H. "Porter" Durham....
You show him as being a "grandson of Joel Durham." Do you know the details of this connection? What is the source of his being Joel's grandson?
Thanks,
John
P.S.
On your page for Joel's children you show son George W. Durham married to Elizabeth Seeney, but I show him married to Elizabeth CARNEY, daughter of James (Martin) Carney and Sally Songo. I also show daughter Amelia married to David Greenage. Also, for son John
Durham's first wife Annie, I have her as Annie Durham, daughter of Benjamin Durham II and Sarah Ann Handsor. (I don't have 2nd wife Ruth's last name either).
P.
P.S.
Under the children of Elisha Durham and Hester Councilor, you have John
's birthdate as ca. 1828, but I had him as b. ca. 1837 (can't find my source at the moment). You also have children listed named Ann (ca. 1838) and Clayton (1840), but I don't have these names (where did you obtain them?). You also show daughter Elizabeth married to Benjamin Williams, but I had Bayman/Baynham Williams. And you have daughter Hester married to David Driggs, but I had David Driggers. (these names per the Joel Durham orphan court records). Just FYI.
Subj:
FW: William DurhamDate:
07/16/2000 7:57:07 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie')
For your info.
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
RomeoJA@ [SMTP:RomeoJA@]Sent:
Sunday, July 16, 2000 7:35 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: William DurhamIn a message dated 07/16/00 11:28:50 Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:>
Hi
John
,The first probate record pertaining to William Durham, husband of Mahala, is dated 26 Aug 1857, and the inventory is dated 05 Sep 1857. The information from the 1850 census, the probate records of 1857, and the gravestone, appear to relate to the same William Durham.--Joseph.
Subj:
RE: Martha Durham, daughter of HueyDate:
07/16/2000 7:57:22 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
RomeoJA@ ('RomeoJA@')CC:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie')
Hi, Joseph.
No, I have Martha's marriage date as 11 Dec 1875, but do not have her death date.
Thanks,
John
P.S.
Thanks very much for the other replies as well.
-----Original Message-----
From:
RomeoJA@ [SMTP:RomeoJA@]Sent:
Sunday, July 16, 2000 7:24 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Martha Durham, daughter of HueyIn a message dated 07/16/00 11:28:50 Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:>
Hi
John
,>From former discussions on this topic, it appears that Martha was the daughter of Huey Durham by a previous wife. Unfortunately, Huey does not appear in any census record that I can find prior to 1870, so we are somewhat in the dark as to who this previous wife was.Do we know when Martha passed away? Are her parents listed on her death certificate?--Joseph.
Subj:
FW: James E.H. Durham, grandson of Joel?Date:
07/16/2000 7:57:23 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie')
Now that I think about it, I'm sure Debbie has told me this before as well.
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
RomeoJA@ [SMTP:RomeoJA@]Sent:
Sunday, July 16, 2000 7:42 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: James E.H. Durham, grandson of Joel?In a message dated 07/16/00 12:08:18 Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:> George Durham b 1847 married Elizabeth aka "Aunt Lizzie">> Cordelia b. 1869>> Horace b. 1875>> William b. 1884>> Elmer b. 1886>> George ca 1880
That's all for now.
Thanks for the other info. Will try to follow-up in more detail soon.
Let me know if you have any questions.
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
RomeoJA@ [SMTP:RomeoJA@]Sent:
Sunday, July 16, 2000 8:18 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Durham miscellanyIn a message dated 07/16/00 12:08:18 Eastern Daylight Time,spiff@ writes:>In our case, guilty. On purpose. We are not set up to discover Old World roots. Your focus seems to be twofold: to discover your own roots wherever the searches may take you and to help elucidate your collateral and coincidental (and even unrelated!) lines which is helping the rest of us assemble the history of our families."Negro" jumps off the page and slaps us in the face each time we see it. "White" does not. Being longtime workers (nearing 50 years--ugh!) involved with the breaking down of racial barriers, it pains and disgusts us to read the old biased stuff we come across in the course of research. It has bothered us that, on its face, the web site appears to be rejecting African roots possibly because of a racial "agenda" -- in fact, though, as you have recognized, the site exists to ferret out Native American roots and none other. We are happy to publish reports such as your Hardcastle lineage. Any lineage report by any of the members of the group is welcome. The bulk of the site, though, contains material relating to Moors and Nanticokes alone.We ought to be discussing this with members of the group who appear to be mainly African-descended to see what their feelings are. Stacey Cooper Emeharole is one(Wicomicowm@ -- see her picture at the bottom of her web index page ), as are Lishia Durham Heard (newhips@), Jeanie Mosley Hall and Theo Lewis Braunskill. We removed the material you objected to from the Menu page to rework it to accomodate your (good) objections and because it was not appropriately placed on the site. We recognize, though, that you are also sensitive to the apparent slight to those of African descent, as we are. Let's throw this open to the group so that language which would be acceptable to all can be agreed upon to be put up on the web site. Do you wish us to put on the web site OR e-mail to the group an edited version of these few discussions we've had so that others can pitch in with their view points?We love your work and your attitudes, John
. You are one in a million when it comes to sharing, empathy, communications, intelligence ++++. We are the better for having been able to work with you!Betty & Ray
Subj:
RE: [Mitsawokett] RE: Zadock Muntz - Civil War VeteranDate:
07/19/2000 7:03:23 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty:
Yes, I agree the text was very interesting for its content other than the immediate genealogical relevance.
However, my favorite part was this line:>
Most everyone (including Ned and his Rosetta Stone) loves to notice the "Indian" parts, but typically ignores whatever they're "mixed" with.
Have fun on your camping trip!!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Wednesday, July 19, 2000 1:06 AMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Zadock Muntz - Civil War VeteranThanks, John
. Beside the genealogical data it is interesting on account of the "special treatment" given persons of color. Also, the reference to negro in one section and the actual description later on. Goes along with Ned's Rosetta Stone.>---------------------B&R Terry
Subj:
RE: raceDate:
07/19/2000 10:57:11 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Wow, what a nice, thoughtful message! Thank-you very much for taking the time to send your thoughts and comments. I very much enjoy your work and your enormous dedication as well.
I'm sorry I just got around to opening this, and here it's time to go to bed, or I'll be falling asleep at my desk tomorrow! (Why can't I just win the lotto and get this work bit over with??? But I guess you deserve it more than I, after 50+ years!)
:-)
Yes, I think your idea is a good one, and I would love such a discussion. If you wish to send any parts of our/my messages to the group, you have my permission. (Or to post on the site or whatever).
Sorry for the short reply, but I have more messages to try to respond to....my inbox is building up again!!
Thanks again,
John
Subj:
RE: John
H. Morgan, Mary Ann Carter, Mary Ann CokerDate:
07/20/2000 7:52:24 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')CC:
JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
(Thanks for re-sending the complete message).
I think I've figured out what the mishap is.
You have this death certificate listed:>> We have a death cert. for Mary Ann Carter Morgan,>> informant John
H. Morgan. This suggests that John
>> H. Morgan was her husband. He may not have been.>> We have the exact death date in our database but>> not in out extracted Archives' records -- Death cert>> #2584 Delaware 1923. Died at Cheswold, married,>> born Delaware, father John
Carter b Delaware,>> mother Eliza Jackson b Delaware. Informant John
>> H. Morgan, Calvin Clark undertaker, buried Manship
And you have this death certificate listed:>> A 3rd death cert.:>> MORGAN, Mary female, C, married; born: Sept. 9,>> 1844 DE; age: 79 years, 19 days; occupation:>> housework; father: John
Coker b. DE; mother: Eliza>> Jackson b. DE; residence: Cheswold; died: Sept. 20,>> 1923 (11 p.m.); cause of death: fractured hip/ gen'l>> debility (fell down stairs); buried: Manship;>> undertaker: Calvin Clark
...but these are THE EXACT SAME DEATH CERTIFICATE.
I have a copy of the death certificate in front of me right now (sent to me a few years ago by Lynn), and I think the confusion lies in the handwriting where the "name of father" box is. If you "squint" or look at the name Coker in a certain way, (which is actually written like CoKer), the capital K can look like an "r" and a "t." It then becomes easy to presume the "o" is an "a." But the name is actually Coker.
You said you had both certificates in your possession; have you looked at them again? I'm not sure what you meant by "We have the exact death date in our database but not in out extracted Archives' records." Not sure what you mean by "extracted Archives' records."
Anyway, the certificate is indeed #2584 (although there is a #5251 scribbled out just above this), and it specifies the following:Name: Mary Morgan.Date of Death: Sept 20, 1923 (11pm).Sex: Fem.Color or Race: C.Status: Married.Date of Birth: Sept 9, 1844Age: 79 yrs., __ mos., 19 ds.Birthplace: Del.Occupation: Housework.Name of Father: John
CokerBirthplace of Father: Del.Name of Mother: Eliza JacksonBirthplace of Mother: rmant: John
H. Morgan.Address: Cheswold, Del.Cause of Death: Fractured Hip; General Debility
Fell Down StairsPlace of Burial: Manship Cem.Date of Burial: Sept 23, 1923.Undertaker: Calvin Clark.Address: Dover, Del.
The 1845 date you have must be a typo.
As for what evidence there is to link Mary Ann Coker and John
H. Morgan as husband and wife, following are some excerpts from a letter from Lynn to me dated 28 Jan 1991:>>
John
Morgan:>>
In trying to firm up James K. Morgan's family,>> I sent for his brother John
's death certificate to check>> out parents name. (John
and his wife Mary are>> buried at Manship). It also lists father and mother as>> WILLIAM MORGAN and ANNIE SAUNDERS. My>> census search found William married to Mary in 1850>> (with son John
) and William married to Mahaley in>> 1870 (with son James) YET BOTH SONS list mother>> as Annie??? There's 28 years between the eldest>> and youngest child but perhaps "Annie" and "Mary">> were corruptions of "Mahaley." John
Morgan and>> William Morgan appear as purchasers of portions>> of Robert Dean's farm and I wondered at the>> connection. Found that connection with John
's wife>> Mary.>>>>
Mary Morgan:>>
I had been told that 2 Morgan brothers married>> 2 Sisco sisters. I assumed that John
's wife Mary was>> a Sisco and was hoping her death certificate would>> list her parents William and Araminta Sr. but her>> death certificate indicates she was a Coker.>> Daughter of "John
" Coker and Eliza Jackson. I went>> back to my census records and found Mary, born c.>> 1844/45 daughter of "James" Coker and wife Eliza...>> a sister of Moses Coker. This must be the same Mary>> and her husband John
got her father's name wrong.>> This would explain the connection in the Dean land>> purchase. Moses and Mary Ann sold a portion of her>> father's farm to their brother in law and his father. If all>> this is true, then Eliza's maiden name was Jackson>> (it's back to the drawing board though on the other>> Morgan brother married to a Sisco...if there is one...>> this is one of those stories that fell apart completely as>> I researched it...the story was told with such conviction>> about 2 Lancaster Co. PA Sisco sisters meeting 2>> Morgan brothers at the Phila. Centennial Expo in 1876>> and marrying them, moving to Kent Co...not only were>> the Sisco sisters not from Lancaster Co. PA but there>> may not even be 2 sisters married to 2 brothers...so>> be very leery of family stories....)
I just checked out Lynn's website, and a little more detail is given regarding the location and specifics of the land dealings, but I don't know if anyone has yet found an actual marriage record itself.
Here is a link to the exact spot in Lynn's website where the family is discussed:
(However, bear in mind that this link will take you to that frame alone. If you wish to navigate to other places on her site, you will need to enter through the main page, and then follow the menu through "Families," "Morgan," and then "William Morgan." Here is a link to the main page:
I don't have anything on the marriage of Eliza Jackson, nor any other information about her. (But I would LOVE to! I have often wondered about her connection to the other Jacksons. This is a whole unexplored branch for me, and could potentially add a whole 'nuther bundle of inter-connections for me!)
I don't think Lynn has anything further regarding Eliza, either.
By the way, Lynn left for Arizona on the 14th. So she may be able to add more comments after she returns, (and gets caught up!) :-)
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Wednesday, July 19, 2000 12:08 AMTo:
spiff@; JACKLYN001@Subject:
John
H. Morgan, Mary Ann Carter, Mary Ann CokerHere's what was meant --We have John
H. Morgan married to Mary Ann Carter. Lynn & John
show himmarried to Mary Ann Coker. Somewhere along the line Mary Ann Carter and MaryAnn Coker have been confused with each other.>From John
's e-mail to George Contant March 20, 1999:John
H. Morgan, (unknown unit), (17 Feb 1840 - 24 Jan 1925)....He waspresumably a cousin of another of my g-g-grandmother's, and he married MaryA. Coker, sister of Daniel Coker, above, and my g-g-grandfather Moses Coker.---Manship database:MORGAN, MARY A. 9 SEP 1845 - 20 SEP 1923 "HIS WIFE" 053 --Carter or Coker?MORGAN, JOHN
H. 17 FEB 1840 - 21 JAN 1925 "A CIVIL WAR VET" 053 ---We have a death cert. for Mary Ann Carter Morgan, informant John
H. Morgan. This suggests that John
H. Morgan was her husband. He may not have been. Wehave the exact death date in our database but not in out extracted Archives'records -- Death cert #2584 Delaware 1923. Died at Cheswold, married, bornDelaware, father John
Carter b Delaware, mother Eliza Jackson b rmant John
H. Morgan, Calvin Clark undertaker, buried Manship.Another death cert.:MORGAN, John
-- male, Moor, married; born: Feb. 17, 1840 in Delaware;age: 84 years, 11 months, 4 days; occupation: farmwork; father: WilliamMorgan b. DE; mother: Annie Saunders b. DE; died: Jan. 21, 1925 (4 p.m.); cause: chronic intestinal nephritis; buried: Manship; undertaker: CalvinClarkA 3rd death cert.:MORGAN, Mary female, C, married; born: Sept. 9, 1844 DE; age: 79 years, 19days; occupation: housework; father: John
Coker b. DE; mother: Eliza Jacksonb. DE; residence: Cheswold; died: Sept. 20, 1923 (11 p.m.); cause of death: fractured hip/ gen'l debility (fell down stairs); buried: Manship;undertaker: Calvin ClarkSummary:John
H. Morgan 17 Feb 1840 - 21 Jan 1925Mary Ann Carter 9 Sep 1845 - 20 Sep 1923 (to be rechecked)Mary Ann Coker 9 Sep 1844 - 20 Sep 1923Mother of Mary Ann Coker is Eliza Jackson and mother of Mary Ann Carter isEliza Jackson. Both fathers are John
, one Coker, one Carter. Maybe there isan error here.What do you have to prove Mary Ann Coker was married to John
H. Morgan?What do you have on Eliza Jackson marriages?---------------------B&R TerryFamily History: "The Moors of Delaware" ---------------------If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.
Subj:
FW: John
Durham, b. 1828 (reprint)Date:
07/20/2000 8:57:46 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), 74547.41@ ('Unger, Debbie')
For your info.
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
RomeoJA@ [SMTP:RomeoJA@]Sent:
Tuesday, July 18, 2000 10:02 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
John
Durham, b. 1828 (reprint)
Hi
John
,Here's a reprint of an e-mail I sent some time ago on John
Durham, b. 1828, and why I think that he is the son of Elisha.Also, Lishia Durham Heard sent me a copy of the death certificate of an Isaac Durham who died 22 Mar 1900, age 78, in Cheswold, the son of Elisha and Priscilla [!]. This fits the proposed chronology, although I note that the age at death does not match any census records.Best regards,--Joseph.********************
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Ancestry of Isabelle DurhamDate: 01/30/00 18:00:42 Eastern Standard TimeFrom: RomeoJA@Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@From: RomeoJA@
Hi
John
,The person to whom the message was addressed is Robert Alan (Bob) Spurgeon who had a posting regarding Isabelle Durham at . He sent me a huge GEDCOM with Spurgeon info. There was a tie-in with Isabelle Durham, but not in his direct line.The 1837 date for John
Durham is presumably taken from the 1850 census, but here's the rub. There is no John
listed in the household of Elisha Durham in 1850, but there is a Jonathan.The sources of info for John
Durham are:1845 - Petition of Enoch Spruance for partition of Elijah Consellor's land1864 - Will of Elisha Durham, dated 20 Apr 1864, codacil dated 14 May 1864, proved 27 May 18641864 - Petition of Joel Durham for partition of Jeremiah Consellor's landIt appears to me that the children of Elisha Durham mentioned in these documents are listed in the order of their birth, with some inconsistencies:Petition 1845: Joel, Isaac, Elijah, John
, Elizabeth, David, Mary, Hester, Ann, Clayton.Will 1864: Joel, Isaac, Elijah, Elisha West, John
West, David West, Elizabeth, Hester; and Mary mentioned separately.Petition 1864: Joel, Isaac, Elijah, Elisha, John
, Elizabeth, Mary, David, Hester, and unnamed child.Elisha is missing from the 1845 list, perhaps because of the assonance with Elijah; Ann appears in 1845 but not later, and my suspicion is that the name Hester Ann was divided into two separate names (I have one reference to Hester as Hester A.: birth 13 Feb 1870 of daughter Lucy S. Drigget).Other census references give us the chronology:Joel, b. ca. 1819/1820; Isaac, no info; Elijah, b. ca. 1824 (PA census and d/c); Elisha and John
(see below); Elizabeth, ca. 1831/32 (NJ census 1860, 1870, 1880); David, ca. 1833; Mary, ca. 1834; and Hester, ca. 1836 (last three per 1850 census with Elisha).So I would expect Elisha and John
to be born between Elijah and Elizabeth.I found this 1850 census record:1850 - New Jersey, Camden County, Newton Twp., [Page 171 verso], 400-413, 18 Sep 1850:Elisha Derham, 24, M, "Labourer, DelawareJohn
Durham, 22, M, "Labourer, "DelawareThey were included in the household of (farmer) Joseph K. Gishens (Githins?).These fit perfectly with the Elisha and John
that I would expect to find as Elisha's children. As I do not find John
or Elisha in New Jersey after 1850, I have connected John
of 1850 NJ with the John
of 1860-1900 IN. No idea what happened to Elisha.I wonder if the middle name "West" for these children in Elisha's will has the significance of "they went west"?So if John
of NJ/IN is Elisha's son, who was the Jonathan Durham in Elisha's household in 1850? Not sure, but perhaps a son of Priscilla, Elisha's second wife.--Joseph.
Subj:
RE: Durham miscellany Date:
07/20/2000 9:04:38 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)First of all, I still cannot find the source of my data of Elizabeth being a Carney. I will probably have to give up on this for the time being, and see if I come across it later. Perhaps I'll write to Lorraine and ask her is she knows if I got it from her.... Anyway, I have changed my data on the children of Elisha & Hester to match yours. So, are you saying that children Hester and Ann are one-and-the-same person? They are listed as two people on your website.... So should we combine their estimated birth dates of ca. 1836 and ca. 1838 to make ca. 1837? But you have Ann listed as dying prior to 1850...but then this must not pertain to "Hester Ann" as well, if she went on to marry David Driggus.... Anyway, thanks again for all your help!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
RomeoJA@ [SMTP:RomeoJA@] Sent:
Sunday, July 16, 2000 8:18 PMTo:
spiff@ Subject:
Re: Durham miscellanyIn a message dated 07/16/00 12:08:18 Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:> Yes - this is the same family.
This is great. I almost missed her reply. Now I can add this to my info as well.
Just thought I'd make sure you caught her response, also.
Thanks,
John
Subj:
RE#2: Sammons questionDate:
07/22/2000 12:59:04 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), JSammbird@ ('JSammbird@')
Hello, Ray & Betty, and JoAnn
I have a question about Perry W. Sammons, Jr, below.
On July 10th, Ray & Betty wrote:>> The following Sammons are buried at Manship.>> SAMMONS, PERRY W. JR. 1942-1982 "DAD">> SAMMONS, PERRY W. SR. 1912-1973>> SAMMONS, SARAH E. 1917- >> Is this the same family as William Perry &>> Sarah Eunice (Ridgeway) Sammons>> who had children Betty, Carmella & Glendon M.>> Sammons?
Then, on July 13th, JoAnn wrote:>> Yes - this is the same family.
Thanks for this info. However, I noticed something about Perry W Jr.--
The dates above show that he passed away in 1982. But I show that his son Perry W. Sammons III was born 16 Aug 1986. Is this date incorrect? The son could not have been born 4 years after his father's death....
Thanks for any help you can offer on this one.
John
Subj:
RE: (Seeney site?) Elmer DurhamDate:
07/22/2000 12:24:15 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
By the way, do you know what "Seeney Homepage" he was referring to?
Thanks,
John
Subj:
RE: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of DoverDate:
07/22/2000 1:05:05 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Oh--!
Regarding your message below:
I don't think JoAnne was responding to my question about Glendon. My question about Glendon was sent to individual e-mail addresses only, and had the subject heading "Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover." JoAnne's reply was sent to the Mitsawokett group, and contained the same subject line ("Sammons Question") as your message to Mitsawokett 3 days earlier (about Perry W. Sammons).
You've probably already figured this out, however, based on the other e-mails I just sent a few minutes ago....
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Friday, July 14, 2000 12:03 AMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of DoverJoanne said: "Yes - this is the same family."Guess she answered this question -->You had questions which she did not answer. She has other things on her mindnow.---------------------B&R Terry
Subj:
Re: (Seeney site?) Elmer DurhamDate:
07/22/2000 1:12:11 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
AquaBettyTo:
spiff@In a message dated 07/22/2000 12:24:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:>Guess it's Dave's --
Subj:
GouldsDate:
07/22/2000 11:01:08 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
I've been exploring around the Mitsawokett site, trying to find the lineage of tribal chairman Mark Gould. I was communicating with member Brian Alnutt (who's also a Gould descendant), and realized I'd never entered Mark or his family in my database.
Found an item to point out:
On this page in the "Descendants of William & Deborah (Handsor) Ridgeway"-- .htm#11403
...it shows Phyllis Mosley married to (1) Carter, and (2) Mark Gould. The Carter she married was Ralph Carter, Jr., (son of Ralph Carter, Sr. & Syrethia Pierce), but I believe she married Mark Gould first, then Ralph.
(You do have Phyllis correctly married to Ralph on the "Descendants of Purnell & Rebecca Mosley" page) (Ralph Umphrey Carter, Jr., #347).
(Also, is correct on the "Descendants of John
& Sarah Mosley" page). (Ralph Umphrey Carter, Jr., #245).
I can't seem to find Mark Gould anywhere, though.
Brian Alnutt tells me that he thinks Mark's father was named Wilbur (could it be Wilburt/Wilbert? I saw that name a couple of places....), and that Wilbur is a first cousin to Brian's father, Robert "Bobby" Gould. Robert had two brothers named Olin and Wayne, and Brian thinks the father of these three was a Olin, Sr. This means that Olin, Sr. and Wilbur's father would be brothers, I guess.
Anyway, if you have anything to connect these people, I would appreciate it.
Thanks very much!
John
Subj:
Re: GouldsDate:
07/22/2000 11:13:53 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
AquaBettyTo:
spiff@This is an item for Rose & Lorraine. We have two Mark Goulds (or one with two wives) but no parents for either. We have a Wilbert with son Wilbur, but no children for Wilbur. Mark Gould is pictured at Terry
Subj:
GouldsDate:
07/22/2000 11:28:15 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine'), RWahoor@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie')CC:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Lorraine & Rose (& Betty & Ray).
I've been exploring around the Mitsawokett site, trying to find the lineage of tribal chairman Mark Gould. I was communicating with Mitsawokett member Brian Alnutt (who's also a Gould descendant, related to Mark), and realized I'd never entered Mark or his family in my database.
Brian Alnutt tells me that he thinks Mark's father was named Wilbur (could it be Wilburt/Wilbert? I saw that name a couple of places....), and that Wilbur is a first cousin to Brian's father, Robert "Bobby" Gould. Robert had two brothers named Olin and Wayne, and Brian thinks the father of these three was a Olin, Sr. This means that Olin, Sr. and Wilbur's father would be brothers, I guess.
I found a couple of places in the family reports with a Wilbur or Wilburt/Wilbert Gould, but can't seem to find Mark Gould anywhere, though.
Anyway, if you have anything to connect these people, I would appreciate it.
Thanks very much!
John
Subj:
Mitsawokett photosDate:
07/23/2000 1:24:22 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Have just been looking at the photographs on the Mitsawokett site in detail for the first time in a while. WOW!! Great job!
I noticed a linking glitch: When I click on the underlined name of Margaret A. Carney 1895-1973, it takes me instead to a photo of Rev. Roland "Tip" Coker and his wife Hazella Sammons Coker. (Roland was actually a son of Margaret, so perhaps therein lies the glitch).
Oh, WAIT--just realized, you have to keep scrolling down below the other photo! Duh! Guess it's getting too late for me....
Here's something I noticed:
When you go to the photo of Joel Durham, the large caption says "Joel and Margaret (Munce) Durham." I almost had a heart attack thinking that someone had discovered a photo of Margaret, but there's just good ol' Joel there (and another photo below it, but not with Margaret).
Saw the Terry family photos there, too! Great shots!
It was nice to be able to "see" who I've been chatting with all this time! (I think I may have seen a photo of you two at one time or another, but can't remember where, and had forgotten what you looked like!)
:-)
Seeing all these photos has reminded me that I have many more that I need to get scanned and sent to you. Probably have a couple of ones for the "unidentified page" as well.
Thanks,
John
Subj:
Hold off on photos?Date:
07/23/2000 1:36:49 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Just had a thought:
Would you rather I wait until after you get back from your trip, before I start sending photos? I thought I might send some tomorrow, but I'm thinking I should probably not inundate your e-mail....
Thanks,
John
Subj:
Re: Mitsawokett photosDate:
07/23/2000 10:16:27 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
AquaBettyTo:
spiff@Thanks for the compliments! If you can think of a way to avoid confusing people, as you were initially, please give us an idea as to how to handle photos of folks whose names are not in the page's title.Yes, please hold off until we get back. We are shifting to digest mode tomorrow. Leaving Tuesday. ---------------------B&R Terry
Subj:
June Denise Hart FainDate:
07/23/2000 5:03:06 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
A couple of quick questions.
On this site:
Mosley_bc1815/pafg14.htm# 2362
...you have June Denise Hart showing as married to Thomas Fain, but their two children are listed with the last name of Hart instead of Fain. Is this intentional?
Also, on this page:
Mosley_bc1815/pafg15.htm# 2364
...you have her brother William Stanford Hart, Jr. as married (2) to Jeanne Stewart, but their child Daron has the last name of Stewart instead of Hart. Also intentional?
Thanks,
John
From: "John
C. Carter" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Cc: "'Unger, Debbie'" Subject: Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photosDate: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:50:29 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Debbie and I spoke last night, and she has been corresponding with a fellow cousin about a couple of the photos listed on the Mitsawokett website, and it seems there is some confusion.
On the "M" page, there is a listing for "Angelica Songo Munce." Who is this? When you click on the link, it takes us to one of Lynn's pages, where there are several listings, one of which is for "Angelica Munce." However, this is Angelica Munce Miller, wife of George Miller. I don't recall ever hearing of an Angelica Songo Munce. There was an Angelica Songo DURHAM, wife of Hewitt "Hughy" Durham, but I don't know of any Angelica Songo Munce. The photo shown when you follow the subsequent link on Lynn's page is of Angelica Munce Miller, with her brother James H. Muncey and his wife Hester Annie Cork Muncey.
Debbie: On the phone last night you mentioned another bit of confusion, having to do with Angelina Munce Dean, sister of Angelica Munce Miller. However, I cannot find what we discussed. I did notice that if you go to the "D" page of the Mitsawokett photos, there is a listing for "Angelina Munce Dean." This link takes you to the same Lynn-page as when clicking from the Mitsawokett "M" page on "Angelina Munce (Dean)." She is listed once alphabetically by her maiden name, and once by her married name, but both take you to Lynn's page, which has a secondary link for "Angelina Munce." The photo displayed is correct. This is the tin-type photo that I gave Harry Muncey, which I received with the Cott material from Michigan back in the 1970's.
Is what you're saying: that this photo is listed somewhere else, but with someone else's name? If so, what name?
Thanks,
John
To: "'Shelly Herman'" Cc: "'Mitsawokett List'" From: "John
C. Carter" Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 22:20:03 -0400Subject: [Mitsawokett] RE: BEDWELL / The moors of kent co delaware
Hi, Shelly.
Thanks for your message.
I am CC'ing this reply to a research group of about 180 members, of which we are all more-or-less involved in researching the history of "the moors" as described in your subject line. Our efforts are more specifically described by the header line on our group's main web page: "The History and Genealogy of the Native American Isolate Communities of Kent County, Delaware, and Surrounding Areas on the DelMarVa Peninsula and Southern New Jersey."
I'm not really familiar with any Bedwells, other than one reference I'll list below. Perhaps someone else in the group knows of any Bedwell connections...?? (ALL: See Shelly's message attached below).
If you reply, please CC Shelly via the following email address:
shellyherman@
The only Bedwell reference I'm familiar with is:
From page 7 of "Descendants of Francis Muncy I with Allied Families" by Mary Edith Shaw, 1948 edition:
"Muncey, William mar. Mariah Bedwell Nov. 16, 1826. Maria C. 1826, from adm. of John
Bedwell, Kent Co, DE."
Anyone else have any other Bedwell references?
Shelly, you may need to provide more specific details, such as specific names of people, and any dates & places associated with them.
Good luck!
John
John
C. Carter
-C-Carter/Paternal surnames: Bailey, Carney, Carter/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston, Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor, Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Joy, Morgan, Morris, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Orem, Ridgeway, WyattVolunteer - Headstone Hunter
-----Original Message-----
From:
Shelly Herman [SMTP:shellyherman@]Sent:
Tuesday, July 24, 2001 9:59 AMTo:
spiff@Subject:
The moors of kent co delaware
HI
I am hoping you can help me in my search. I have Found that the Bedwells lived in kent county in the late 1800 and the early 1900 but the marriagerecords dropped off at 1936 -1942. I am feeling fairly certain that I am of moors. I am hoping that maybe you will know something on the Bedwells ofkent co or maybe suggestions of were I might look to confirm. Thank YouShelly HermanTo: "'Mitsawokett List'" From: "John
C. Carter" Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 08:00:14 -0400Subject: [Mitsawokett] FW: SUSSEX, JACKSON, 1797...
Hi, all.
Received this Jackson reference via the Lower DelMarVa Roots list today....
JCC
-----Original Message-----
From:
dixieljaw [SMTP:dixieljaw@]Sent:
Thursday, July 26, 2001 9:51 PMTo:
LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@Subject:
[LDR] SUSSEX, JACKSON, 1797...
Hi
all, I have just made the most marvelous discovery !!! Clemant Jackson,1797, Sussex County, paying his taxes...694 lbs sterling...( not positive ofthe number without going back.) Now, how many out there are related to us ??? I am dying to find outwho his wife was... and children... I know one "child"... Thomas AndrewJackson, b: 1824, Kent County... Thomas named a son, Clemant Lord Jackson,V... I hope all sorts of cousins start popping out of the woodwork !!!Finding where Thomas was born was the climax of 8 years of waiting !!! I amthrilled !!! C'mon cousins... come and get me... Dixie Lea...in K.C...Ks. nee Jackson...From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Subject: FW: Photo was partially identifiedDate: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:10:54 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Noticed this photo from my message below is shown as #37 on Mitsawokett's "Please Identify These People" page. However, there is no caption on the website, even though I had provided a partial description below.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Sunday, March 18, 2001 7:14 PMTo:
'Terry, Betty & Ray'Subject:
More photos
Hi, Ray & Betty.
I have a couple more pictures which were recently shared with me.
This one attached here has two people identified, one possible, and one unknown, in case you'd like to post it on Mitsawokett.
Thanks,
John
Left to Right:1. Don Edwards2. possibly Elizabeth Durham (later Coker), daughter of Benjamin Durham & Anna Mae Durham.3. unknown4. Romaine CuffPhoto courtesy of Evelyn Coker Townsend.From: "John
C. Carter" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Subject: RE: Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photosDate: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 23:59:17 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Debbie and I have been discussing the purported photo of Angelica Songo Durham, and I keep telling her there is no such photo on Mitsawokett, and she says there is. She is very swamped with her job, etc, and will check the Mitsawokett site again in a couple of days.
But I think she's mistaken it with MAHALA Songo Durham. (And that photo is fine).
I will keep you posted.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
DEBORAHPUNGER@ [SMTP:DEBORAHPUNGER@]Sent:
Tuesday, July 24, 2001 11:27 PMTo:
spiff@; bettyandrayterry@Subject:
Re: Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photos
Hi
John
and Ray & Betty,I have tried to copy John
's message, this is my response - hopefully coherent.1. The photo John
speaks of titled "Angelica Songo Munce" etc. I was curiousabout this one since I have forever been in hunt of Angelica Songo DURHAM,and never came across another Angelica Songo. ??2. The tin-type photo of Angelina Munce Dean ALSO appears under the nameAngelica Songo Durham.well, maybe this isn't as confusing as it first appeared. thanks, John
Debbie>>John
wrote:
Hi, Ray & Betty. Debbie and I spoke last night, and she has been corresponding with afellow cousin about a couple of the photos listed on the Mitsawokettwebsite, and it seems there is some confusion. On the "M" page, there is a listing for "Angelica Songo Munce." Who is this? When you click on the link, it takes us to one of Lynn's pages,where there are several listings, one of which is for "Angelica Munce." However, this is Angelica Munce Miller, wife of George Miller. I don'trecall ever hearing of an Angelica Songo Munce. There was an AngelicaSongo DURHAM, wife of Hewitt "Hughy" Durham, but I don't know of anyAngelica Songo Munce. The photo shown when you follow the subsequent linkon Lynn's page is of Angelica Munce Miller, with her brother James H.Muncey and his wife Hester Annie Cork Muncey. Debbie: On the phone last night you mentioned another bit of confusion,having to do with Angelina Munce Dean, sister of Angelica Munce Miller. However, I cannot find what we discussed. I did notice that if you go tothe "D" page of the Mitsawokett photos, there is a listing for "AngelinaMunce Dean." This link takes you to the same Lynn-page as when clickingfrom the Mitsawokett "M" page on "Angelina Munce (Dean)." She is listedonce alphabetically by her maiden name, and once by her married name, butboth take you to Lynn's page, which has a secondary link for "AngelinaMunce." The photo displayed is correct. This is the tin-type photo that I gave Harry Muncey, which I received with the Cott material from Michiganback in the 1970's. Is what you're saying: that this photo is listed somewhere else, butwithsomeone else's name? If so, what name? Thanks, John
From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Subject: Prudence Sammons/Simons ConceallerDate: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:08:34 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Here's another photo for Mitsawokett, for when you get time.
Photo courtesy of MayBelle Durham Bordley, who sent a copy to me in April 1992 with this caption:
"Prudence Simons Conceilor b. 1825 or 28, d. 1910, wife of Edward Conceilor b. 1824, d. 1884. My great-grandmother."
According to my database, I show Prudence as b. 1827 or 1828, and d. 1900 in Kenton, DE. I have her listed as Prudence Sammons/Simons, daughter of Benjamin Sammons & Sarah Miller.
Thanks,
John
From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'bettyandrayterry@'" Subject: RE: Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photosDate: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 00:27:41 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Thanks for all the help with the photo corrections, etc.
No, I have not yet heard a time for the Aug. 20th date. Guess it will depend on whether anyone steps up to the plate to involve a possible meeting with the DelDOT Secretary or the Governor. Like Ned, I'm a little gun-shy about any attempt at leading, but am certainly willing to follow and lend support & voice.
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Betty & Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]Sent:
Friday, July 27, 2001 10:25 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
RE: Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photos
Hi
John
,We made sure that we removed the Songo from Angelica Songo Munce. She is listed under both the Munce and Deansurnames. There is no Angelica Songo Durham that we could find.Have you heard anything about a time to meet at Ned's on Aug 20? Cheers!B R----- Original Message -----From: John
C. CarterTo: Terry, Betty RaySent: 7/26/01 11:53:30 PMSubject: RE: Slight confusion withMitsawokett photos
Hi, Ray Betty.Debbie and I have been discussing the purported photo of Angelica Songo Durham, and I keep telling her there is no such photo on Mitsawokett, and she says there is. She is very swamped with her job, etc, and will check the Mitsawokett site again in a couple of days.But I think she's mistaken it with MAHALA Songo Durham. (And that photo is fine). I will keep you posted.Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----
From:DEBORAHPUNGER@ [SMTP:DEBORAHPUNGER@ ]Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 11:27 PMTo: spiff@; bettyandrayterry@Subject: Re: Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photos
Hi
John
and Ray Betty,I have tried to copy John
's message, this is my response – hopefully coherent.1. The photo John
speaks of titled "Angelica Songo Munce" etc. I was curious about this one since I have forever been in hunt of Angelica Songo DURHAM, and never came across another Angelica Songo. ??2. The tin-type photo of Angelina Munce Dean ALSO appears under the name Angelica Songo Durham. well, maybe this isn't as confusing as it first appeared. thanks, John
DebbieJohn
wrote:
Hi, Ray Betty.Debbie and I spoke last night, and she has been corresponding with a fellow cousin about a couple of the photos listed on the Mitsawokett website, and it seems there is some confusion.On the "M" page, there is a listing for "Angelica Songo Munce." Who is this? When you click on the link, it takes us to one of Lynn's pages, where there are several listings, one of which is for "Angelica Munce." However, this is Angelica Munce Miller, wife of George Miller. Idon't recall ever hearing of an Angelica Songo Munce. There was an Angelica Songo DURHAM, wife of Hewitt "Hughy" Durham, but I don't know of any Angelica Songo Munce. The photo shown when you follow the subsequent link on Lynn's page is of Angelica Munce Miller, with her brother James H. Muncey and his wife Hester Annie Cork Muncey.Debbie: On the phone last night you mentioned another bit of confusion, having to do with Angelina Munce Dean, sister of Angelica Munce Miller. However, I cannot find what we discussed. I did notice that if you go to the "D" page of the Mitsawokett photos, there is a listing for "Angelina Munce Dean." This link takes you to the same Lynn-page as whenclicking from the Mitsawokett "M" page on "Angelina Munce (Dean)." She is listed once alphabetically by her maiden name, and once by her married name, but both take you to Lynn's page, which has a secondary link for "Angelina Munce." The photo displayed is correct. This is the tin-type photo that I gave Harry Muncey, which I received with the Cott material from Michigan back in the 1970's.Is what you're saying: that this photo is listed somewhere else, but with someone else's name? If so, what name? Thanks,---------------------------------------------------------------Betty Ray TerryFrom: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Unger, Debbie Pierce'" , "'Terry, Betty & Ray'"
, "'Heite, Ned'" Cc: "'Jackson, Lynn'" , "'Marshall, Sandy Coursey'"
, "'Marshall, Celeste H.'"
Subject: RE: Politicize / Socialize / GenealogicizeDate: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 22:41:36 -0400
Hi, all.
Received the message from Sandy below.
I'm not sure what time to suggest...should we make this an all-day event? If we do go the Hayward/Minner route, that will obviously need to be during business hours anyway. Shall we set a time for the appointment in the morning, for those who'd want to attend that meeting, and then set another time later for those who'd just like to get together to meet and/or socialize or "genealogicize"?
How do we achieve an audience with the honorable highnesses?
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Heritage49@ [SMTP:Heritage49@]Sent:
Sunday, July 29, 2001 8:19 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: FW: more nastiness from the ClarksI emailed Ned about the time on the 20th. He informed me he's just thelandlord -- thus what time are we meeting at Ned's place. Missy & I arehoping to get some research time in at the Archives. Also, I need to ask if you are definitely making an appointment with the Governor or Hayward -- if so we need to know this so everyone can be prepared to deal with thesituation. So fess up, John
. I might add I don't have a problem meeting withthem, I'm used to this, plus I have something to impart for lastingimpressions.Sandy
Subj:
Re: June Denise Hart FainDate:
07/23/2000 10:57:08 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
AquaBettyTo:
spiff@Yes and yes. We did not inquire as to the biological fathers. During our conversation the Harts told of some personal hell they endured as they lost 2 children--again we did not ask how they died. So we did not feel like asking very personal questions.Bill Hart died last September just after his 50th wedding anniversary (to Gloria Mosley) in July.---------------------B&R Terry
Subj:
FW: RE#2: Sammons questionDate:
07/26/2000 9:48:21 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Here's a response I just got from JoAnne.
Took me a minute to figure out what she was talking about, I sent out so many e-mails last week. I kept looking in my Sammons e-mail file, and the only thing under her name was the questions we sent that she never (still) answered under the title of "Glendon M. Sammons Sr. of Dover."
Finally I realized I had cc'd her on the Sammons reply I had sent to you (pasted below her messages, below). :-)
Can't figure out where I got the 1986 date from....! Thought I got it from Preston Sammons, but just looked through the data he sent, and couldn't find it....
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
JSammbird@ [SMTP:JSammbird@]Sent:
Wednesday, July 26, 2000 8:27 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: RE#2: Sammons questionSorry - I got the name backwards. It is Perry W. Sammons,III.JoAnne
-----Original Message-----
From:
JSammbird@ [SMTP:JSammbird@]Sent:
Wednesday, July 26, 2000 8:22 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: RE#2: Sammons questionNo - this is not correct. Wm. P. Sammons,III was born June 28, 1962.
Subj:
Two unidentified photos for Mitsawokett siteDate:
07/29/2000 3:58:05 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')File: Twounide.zip (24143 bytes)DL Time (50000 bps): < 1 minute
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Here are a couple of photos that I would appreciate if you could post to the Mitsawokett site for help in identifying the people in them.
1. The first one (Jackson.jpg) has the caption on the back "One of the Jacksons" which was written by Katherine E. Newlin Thomas. Her husband, Ralph Carter Thomas (1914-1995) was a son of Elijah DeSoto Thomas (1887-1977) and Bessie Jackson (1886-1954). Bessie was a daughter of Nathaniel C. Jackson (1850-1934) and Lucy N. Perkins (1854-1936). Nathaniel & Lucy's children included: Lula/Lulu, Bessie, Nora/Norah, Clarence, Ira Woodrow "Woodie", Maddie Rae, and Phillip H. The child in this photo is probably a member of this family, but which one?
2. The second one (W_Jackson.jpg) has the caption on the back "Don't know. Must be Ralph's Uncle Woodie and Mamie and son -- Ira Jackson." This caption was written by Katherine E. Newlin Thomas. Her husband, Ralph Carter Thomas (1914-1995) was a son of Elijah DeSoto Thomas (1887-1977) and Bessie Jackson (1886-1954). Bessie was a daughter of Nathaniel C. Jackson (1850-1934) and Lucy N. Perkins (1854-1936). Bessie had a brother named Ira Woodrow "Woodie" Jackson (dates unknown), but my records show him as married to Winifred Louise Clark--could her nickname be Mamie? Also, I show them as having children named Lucy Margaret, Ethel "Etta" Mae, John
, Edward, Hazel, and Margie, but I don't show any son named Ira. Could there have been a son named Ira Jr., named after his father? Or was the caption merely referring that "Uncle Woodie's" real name was Ira Jackson? (and therefore the young man in the photo might be John
or Edward).
Thanks,
John
Subj:
RE: Two Press Durhams ??Date:
07/30/2000 10:09:49 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine')CC:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Lorraine.
I had a question in regard to Presley "Press" Durham, and which "Millie" was his wife.
In your message from 10 Oct 1998 (attached at the bottom of this chain), you mentioned that George W. Carter's and Sarah Bell Carney's daughter Millie married Presley Durham. No ages were given here, but in another message to me on 30 Jan 2000 you cited the 1920 Kent Co census, which listed the household of George E. & Sally Carter, and gave ages of the family including daughter Millie as age 15, which would make her born about 1905:>> Carter George E, age 50, Sally, wife age 45,>> children: George E age 21, Lora or Laura age 17,>> Edith age 16, Milie age 15, Mary age 13,>> James age 11, Wm. age 9, Margaret age 8,>> Esther age 7 and grandson age 2.
(Not sure why George's middle initial is E here, instead of W, but that's another thing....)
Anyway-- Pinky Coker sent me a message dated 06 Jul 2000 (attached below), in which she mentioned the following:>> Presley (Press) Durham 1901-1985,>> Son of Uncle Marr, Press wife>> Mildred Mosley Durham 1908-1986.>> She was the daughter of Wilbur Mosley.
I sent her a reply on 22 Jul 2000, asking whether there were TWO Press Durhams, since we now had one listed as marrying Millie Carter, and one listed as marrying Mildred Mosley. I wondered whether they might be one-and-the-same Press, since both had a wife named "Millie" (nickname for Mildred).
Pinky replied that there was only one Press Durham, and re-states that he was married to Mildred Mosley.
Do you have any thoughts on this? Could Millie Carter have married someone else other than Press Durham? Or do you think there were two Press Durhams? If so, it seems they would be living around the same time period, if Millie Carter was born around 1905 (and if we presume her husband to be approx. the same age as she), and the Press Durham who married Mildred Mosley was born in 1901.
Thanks for any help or suggestion you can offer!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
ACoker43@ [SMTP:ACoker43@]Sent:
Monday, July 24, 2000 9:39 AMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Press Durham
Hi, There was only one Press Durham. ANd his Wife was the daughter of WilburMosley.[ snip ]Pinky
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Saturday, July 22, 2000 12:24 PMTo:
'ACoker43@'Subject:
RE: Press Durham
Hi, Pinky.
Hope you are doing well.
I had a question about Presley "Press" Durham.
I added all the information about him to my genealogy program, including his marriage to Mildred Mosley, daughter of Wilbur Mosley and Lillian Morgan.
But noticed in my index that I have another Press Durham in my file, and I'm not sure if he's really another separate person, or if he's an error that got mixed up from the correct Press Durham.
This other Press Durham in my file shows as being married to a Millie Carter (b. ca. 1905), daughter of George W. Carter and Sarah "Sallie" Bell Carney. Since "Millie" can be a nickname for "Mildred," it seems strange that TWO Press Durhams would marry TWO Millies. Have you heard of this "other" Press Durham or this Millie Carter? Or do you think this is a mistake and there's only one Press Durham, married to Mildred Mosley?
Thanks!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
ACoker43@ [SMTP:ACoker43@]Sent:
Thursday, July 06, 2000 10:26 PMTo:
Spiff@Subject:
(no subject)
Hi
John
, I walked the cemetery tonight.You might have some of theses names already.It was Presley (Press) Durham1901-1985,Son of Uncle Marr, Press wife MildredMosley Durham1908-1986. She was the daughter of Wilbur Mosley.[ snip ]Have a good day Pinky
-----Original Message-----
From:
LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent:
Saturday, October 10, 1998 12:40 AMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: "Cousin George" Carter
Hi
John
:[ snip ]George W Carter , m Sarah Bell Carney Feb 27 1896Parents of 12----1 Eva Carter NM, b Jan 1892,mother of James Carter m Serena Cuff and Margaret Carter m (!)Boyd LinfordSeeney ,parents of Judy Seeney m Wm Carney, Robert Seeney m Mary JaneMosley.Margaret Carter m (2) Lindwood Coombs2 Edith Carter NM3 Mary Carter m Wilbur (Tut) Durham4 Millie Carter m Presley Durham5 George E Carter m Rheba Mosley, Parents of Ida, Calvin, George6 Esther Carter m John
(Jack) Hughes, son of Letisha (Lettie) John
son andEdward Hughes, parents of : Glendora m Charles Sammons., Charlotte m John
Lorenzo Gaines, John
H Hughes m Mary Saunders, Leticia, m Thomas Mosley,Edith m Arnold Pierce, Larry Hughes I don't know if he ever m, Zane NM, AnnaMildred m a ? Sammons.7 Jim Carter, NM8 Charles Carter , NM9 Taff Carter, NM#6 above Lettie John
son m Edward Hughes, his parents were: John
Hughes and Deborah Cork. I have some dates on Lettie and Ed Hughes family,some are buried in the Fork Branch Cemetary in DE.Hope this helps someLorraine
Subj:
RE: Greetings from the East Coast!Date:
07/29/2000 8:12:53 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
No problem on the photos.
Hope you're having a good time! Have you seen any sights during your trip? Or was it more of just a family visit?
I'm in the process of trying to re-do my FTM website, so that both paternal and maternal files will be contained in the "Book" posted there. Previously, I only had my maternal files in the Book, since my paternal lines are kept in a separate file in my pc. FTM only allows users to have one Book, and up to 6 total for Book and/or Reports. This is why I've only had 5 paternal files listed there. But I've been instructed by FTM tech staff that the best way to achieve having ALL my reports accessible is to combine both my paternal and maternal files into an "Appended" file, and then use this appended file to create a new Book. I've never done this before, but it seems to be working. I've just uploaded a test file, and will see what happens.
(I've had to shut down 3 or 4 times today already, because damn thunderstorms & lightning keep coming and going. Guess I should be used to it--after all, this is the "lightning capital of the world.")
If all goes well, I will be deleting the 5 paternal Reports there, and only having one Book, which will contain those 5 paternal Reports (as "Chapters"), as well as every other paternal and maternal line in my files. I will keep you posted, as (I'm not sure, but) this might affect the links between Mitsawokett and my site.
Wish me luck!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Saturday, July 29, 2000 7:30 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Two unidentified photos for Mitsawokett site
Hi
John
,We will have to wait until we get back home before we can post the unidentified photos. We did not bring the info need to log onto the web site server.We may return in a couple of days. Everything went well here.B&R
Subj:
RE: More Greetings from the East Coast!Date:
07/30/2000 9:21:28 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Just wanted to let you know that I've finished by initial uploading of files to my FTM website. Everything seems to have gone fine, for the most part.
One thing I've noticed: While I've been aware that there's always been multiple listings of certain individuals in the Index (if descended from more than one ancestor in the Contents), I don't recall the Index previously listing EVERY SINGLE TIME the person's name is listed in the reports, especially those in the parentheses which contain the ancestors' first names. I can see if the Index wants to show the page where an individual is a CHILD along with the page where that individual is a PARENT, but to list every single page where that individual's name is in the parentheses behind all descendants' names is ridiculous. Some individuals now have TONS of listings in the Index. I plan to send a question about this to the FTM Tech people.
Anyway, there's one other thing I wanted to let you know about: Previo usly, for my Hardcastle report, I used Marmaduke Hardcastle as the "furthest back ancestor," and the title individual for the Hardcastle file/report. However, to be consistent with the other reports, I've decided the title individual for each report should be either the "furthest back ancestor," IF STILL IN AMERICA, or otherwise the emigrant/progenitor ancestor of the American descendants. In the case of the Hardcastles, this would be Marmaduke's son, Robert Hardcastle, Sr, who was the emigrant/progenitor. Marmaduke never came to America.
I'm not sure how this change will affect the connection/reference/linking between the Mitsawokett site and my site. Please let me know if this causes any difficulties, as I can reconsider.
Also, I would be happy to receive any other comments, suggestions or corrections you might have.
Thanks!!
John
-C-Carter/
Subj:
RE: Roger CarneyDate:
08/03/2000 10:26:24 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Glad to hear your trip went well.
That happened (overbooked flight, with offer of comp) to me, when I was coming back from Colorado following my father's funeral. While I was sitting there trying to decide if I wanted to hold over until the next flight, thinking: well, I'm not in any hurry to get home, but: I'm tired of this trip and tired of sitting in an airport... other people beat me to it, and took the comps. I guess that's why they say: you snooze, you lose.... :-)
No, the cousin I was mentioning was not Roger Carney. I've never heard of him before.
The cousin I was referring to was Eleanor P. "Peetie" Carney Olin, daughter of Minous "Diddie" Carney and Philena Harmon. Philena, daughter of Harvey Harmon and Sarah Jane Mosley. Minous, son of Walt Carney and Elnora Durham. Let me know if you need more info to connect.
In fact, I have not heard from Peetie in a while (since March). I need to drop her a line, and see how things are going. She is the one who "discovered" Robert Carney, Sr's will, which seems to tie some of the early Carneys together.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Wednesday, August 02, 2000 2:12 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Roger Carney
Hi
John
,We got back last night. Everything, including the travel, went smoothly.Because of illness (Betty & daughter) prior to our travel we were not surewhen we would be flying to Calif. so we bought tickets at the last moment andhad to travel standby to and from California. No problems despite the huge numbers of people flying. We were able to give up seats on the way back forcompensation, which delayed us only 3 hours till the next flight--and did notaccept the offer for more comp when THAT flight proved to be overbooked!Is Roger below the Carney cousin you referred to earlier? Your messagefollows, then the message from Roger. If not, we will contact him to see ifhe has more info on the early Carney line.
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: Wilmina Durham and John
CarneyDate: 99-10-07From: spiff@ (John
C. Carter)...Shary Carney was born ca. 1825 per Preston Sammons; ca. 1828 per a cousinnot on this list. Shary and Mary were married 04 Sep 1849, per theCarty/Wyatt family Bible.Shary, in turn, was the son of John
Carney (b. ca. 1798) and Louisa _____(b. ca. 1806). (Info. passed to me by the cousin not on this list).
Subj: George & Lucy CarneyDate: 07/25/2000 6:34:34 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom: RestlessSpirit97To: AquaBettyUpdate on George & Lucy Carney's Family Tree:Their son Roger Carney married to Debbie Carney 22 years with two childred(1). Roger Carney II and (2). Cheyenne CarneyIf you have any questions, please call Roger Carney at (302) 736-0105---------------------B&R Terry
Subj:
FW: Some updated Seeney infoDate:
08/06/2000 2:18:10 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
seen1@worldnet. ('Seeney, Chuck'), Bephi@ ('Phipps, Beverley'), DL7715@ ('Seaney, Dave')CC:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hello, all.
I recently received some new Seeney info (Betty & Ray--you already know about this.... Just cc'ing you here), and thought I would pass it along to those of you who were helping to try to identify this particular Seeney family last year.
(The Adeline Seeney we were trying to identify at that time turns out to have been an aunt of the other Adeline Seeney--daughter of Frederick Sr.--which we already knew about).
Attached immediately below is the new info, and below that are excerpts from the discussion last year. I suspect that "Reb" is a nickname for Reuben Seeney. Still haven't figured out how this Adeline was an aunt of Harvey Durham, but Adeline's sister Elizabeth married George W. Durham, so perhaps one of their children was named Harvey?? Or perhaps Adeline had another sister who married a Durham besides Elizabeth? (Sister Maggie married a Muntz).
Anyway, we seem to have identified this Adeline Seeney as the daughter of James Seeney Sr. (ca. 1820 -1890) and Sallie Clark. Adeline married Charlie Mosley and her siblings included Frederick Seeney, Sr., James Seeney, Jr., Elizabeth Seeney, Reuben Seeney, John
Seeney, Samuel Seeney, and Maggie Seeney.
Thanks,
John
---------------------------------------(from Matt Sammons, on 21 Jul 2000):...Elmer "doc" Durham. 1886-1953 Buried at theForest Grove Adventist church. He is the son ofGeorge [Durham] (son of Joel & Margaret MunceDurham) and Elizabeth Seeney (daughter of theole James Seeney)He had brothers named George Durham marriedMillie Durham, and William "Sapp' Durham marriedElmar Seeney . He married Anna "Mrs. Nan" Carney1888 - 1979, I remember her but Elmer had diedbefore I was born. They had 3 kids. Clarence Durhamcalled Bill, Agustus "Gus" Durham who died in 1984,and Horace who is still living but has terminal cancer.Gus married Martha Carney, daughter of JamesRobert [Carney] and Cordelia Mosley Carney. Theyhave 3 kids. Marlyn Durham Sammons, ElmerDurham in Jersey, and the other we called Tuker.Horace married Sally Morris daughter of CarlosMorris whose house is at the Del. Agriculture Museum.Their children are Purcell who married Shirley Cuff,Horace Jr. "Jazzy" in Jersey, Iona who married aGould in Jersey, Marion who married Glendon Carneynow deceased, Glendora who married SonnyRidgeway son of Mike and Caroline Muntz Ridgeway.This Doc Durham and all his family that have diedare buried at Forest Grove. His mother ElizabethSeeney was a sister to Frederick who marriedHester Dean, James Jr., Reuben Seeney whomarried Mary Dean, John
Seeney married MollyHansor, Jim Seeney, Sam Seeney who was thefather of Elmar that married the Sapp Durham above,Maggie who married Leslie Muntz, Adaline Seeneywho married Charlie Mosley.This set of Seeneys are found on the SeeneyHomepage also. I have more if needed.Matt Sammons
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Sunday, October 03, 1999 1:57 PMTo:
'Terry, Betty & Ray'Cc:
'Jackson, Lynn'Subject:
6. Adline Seeney Mosley(On 9/04/99, I wrote):6. Adline Mosley, who I was told was a sister of"Jim, John
& Reb Seeney," and also the aunt ofHarvey Durham. I do have an Adeline Seeney inmy file as a daughter of Frederick Seeney andHester Dean, and I show them as having a sonJames (Jim), but I don't show any John
or Rebamong their 12 children, unless these arenicknames / middle names. Can anyone confirm?(On 9/04/99, Ray & Betty wrote):>> We have 12 children for Fred Seeney, no John
>> or nickname Reb.(Also on 9/04/99, Ray & Betty wrote--to Seeney researchers):>> John
Carter posed a question to us.>> We don't know the answer. Do any of the>> Seeneys know?>> Who are John
& Reb Seeney?(On 9/04/99, Beverley Phipps wrote):>> Sorry. I never even heard of John
and Reb Seeney.>> If you ever find out, please let me know.(On 9/04/99, Chuck Seeney wrote):>> In my database I have a John
Seeney,>> b. ca. 1848, son of James & Sarah Grenage.>> His siblings are listed as Rhoda, Melvina,>> Elizabeth, Samuel, Sallie, and Adekine(sp?).>> Is this what you are looking for?(On 9/04/99, I wrote) (to Chuck):>> We are trying to find a family that have among>> their children ones named Jim, John
, Reb, and>> Adline/Adeline, all in the same family.>> Do you have any Seeney/Seaney familys that could fit this?
Subj:
RE: HAZEL PAULINE LOATMAN questionsDate:
08/10/2000 6:55:31 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Thanks for forwarding along the response, but I don't have a Harold J. Loatman in my file, either, so I don't have anywhere to connect these people in.
I do have one Harold Loatman, b. Dec 1921, d. 26 Jan 1988, (son of Lindwood Loatman and Anna Hughes), but I show him married to Ida Mosley.
Thanks,
John
Subj:
Re: HAZEL PAULINE LOATMAN questionsDate:
08/10/2000 11:05:42 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
AquaBettyTo:
spiff@In a message dated 08/10/2000 6:55:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:>We have that too. But no parents for J. Harold.---------------------B&R Terry Family History: "The Moors of Delaware" ---------------------Stewart Smalley's Daily Affirmation--"I have the power to channel my imagination into ever-soaring levels of suspicion and paranoia."
Subj:
FW:
P.S.
RE: More Greetings from the East Coast!Date:
08/10/2000 7:04:52 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Not sure if you maybe didn't receive my messages below, or whether you might still be playing "catch up" following your trip--
I just checked out some of the linking from the Mitsawokett: Family Histories page--
Whereas the "main" link to my home page ("John
Carter's Genealogy Home Page") is working, the following links are not working:
1. Descendants of the brothers of Robert, James & William Carney. (They're now all linked under their father, Robert, Sr.)
2. Descendants of Shadrach Carney. (He now falls under the same report as #1, above).
3. Descendants of John
A. Cott (the one going to my page)
4. Descendants of Marmaduke Hardcastle (now under Robert Hardcastle, Sr).
5. Descendants of James McCarty, Sr. (the one going to my page)
Don't mean to pester you, but just thought I would let you know, FYI, in case you hadn't received my messages about my re-vamping my web site.
Thanks!
Hi
ho,
Hi
ho, it's off to work I go!
John
Subj:
Re: FW:
P.S.
RE: More Greetings from the East Coast!Date:
08/10/2000 11:14:18 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
AquaBettyTo:
spiff@In a message dated 08/10/2000 7:04:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:>Whoops -- started working on that and got distracted and then forgot it!Please tell us which reports you want listed and the URL for each.---------------------B&R Terry Family History: "The Moors of Delaware" ---------------------Stewart Smalley's Daily Affirmation: I assume full responsibility for my actions, except the ones that are someone else's fault.
Subj:
RE:
P.S.
RE: More Greetings from the East Coast!Date:
08/12/2000 1:08:29 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Thanks--
I would think that the only reports from my site that should be linked are those which would not otherwise be contained in your own site. Such as the Hardcastle, McCarty, etc.
I would trust your reports to be much more thorough and accurate, since you are receiving sources from many different individuals, either associated with the e-mail group or not.
Here are a few URL's--Descendants of Robert Hardcastle, Sr. (to replace report on Marmaduke Hardcastle)--
-C-Carter/BOOK-0001/0015- 0001.htmlDescendants of James McCarty/Carty(Carter), Sr.--
-C-Carter/BOOK-0001/0018- 0001.htmlDescendants of Robert Carney, Sr.--
-C-Carter/BOOK-0001/0004- 0001.html
I would have also listed my "Descendants of Thomas Carney" report (father of Hester Ann Carney, wife of Jesse Dean, Jr.), but I have a sneaking su spicion he is the same Thomas as in the first generation under Robert Carney, Sr. Needs more investigating.Descendants of (Father of Elizabeth, John
& William) Wyatt--
-C-Carter/BOOK-0001/0024- 0001.html
Let me know if you need any more.
Thanks very much for your help!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Thursday, August 10, 2000 11:14 AMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: FW:
P.S.
RE: More Greetings from the East Coast!In a message dated 08/10/2000 7:04:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time,spiff@ writes:>Whoops -- started working on that and got distracted and then forgot it!Please tell us which reports you want listed and the URL for each.
Subj:
RE: Better photoDate:
08/13/2000 7:40:01 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')File: JCC.JPG (15686 bytes)DL Time (50000 bps): < 1 minute
Hi, Ray & Betty.
While scanning through some of the photos on Mitsawokett, I thought I might submit a better quality one of me. The other one seemed to be very blurry.
Not a priority....
Just thought I'd send this one....
Thanks,
John
P.S.
Then again, perhaps it's the act of being turned from color into b&w that's causing the blurriness. I notice that you have a lot of photos being displayed in b&w that once were color. Perhaps this is a way of conserving memory/space...?
Subj:
RE: Sylvester & Ann RidgewayDate:
08/16/2000 12:00:02 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Wow! Check it out! I'm actually replying to a message from last September!
Been cleaning out my Inbox some more...it's gradually getting smaller...only 56 in it right now!
Anyway, just wanted to comment on your question:>> Sylvester Ridgeway & Ann Harman. We got that>> from her death cert. We don't know her grand->> parents. Do you have this couple in your records?
I think so. I have a Sylvester Ridgway (1856-1934) as a son of Tilghman Ridgway and Sina Mosley. I only had his wife listed as "Annie," with no maiden name. I show them as having two children: Mattie Ridgway, b. 1879; and Mamie Ridgeway (1890-1957), spouse George Miller.
Hmm...the age difference between Gertrude Rebecca (b. 31 Dec 1904) and Mattie (b. 1879) is a little stretched, but could still work, if Ann/Annie was fairly young (say, around 17) when she had Mattie and in her early, early 40's when she had Gertrude.
What do you think?
Have you found out any more on this in the meantime?
(Feel free to take until 2001 to respond...!)
:-)
John
Subj:
RE: Sylvester & Ann Ridg(e)wayDate:
08/16/2000 1:51:26 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine'), RWahoor@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie')CC:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Loraine & Rose.
Do you have any suggestions as to who we might check with (or do you know), in order to verify if the Sylvester Ridgway (1856-1934) who married Annie ______ and was son of Tilghman Ridgway & Sina Mosley is the same as the Sylvester Ridgeway who married Ann Harman and were the parents of Gertrude Rebecca Ridgeway Durham (wife of Isaiah "Zed" Durham)?
If the Sylvester, son of Tilghman, was born 1856 (and we would expect his wife Annie to be approx. the same age) were the parents of Mattie b. 1879 and Mamie b. 1890-- and if the Sylvester & Ann were the parents of Gertrude Rebecca who was born 31 Dec 1904 were the same Sylvester, then it might work, if Ann/Annie was fairly young (say, around 17) when she had Mattie and in her early, early 40's when she had Gertrude.
Can you confirm, or recommend anyone to ask?
Thanks!
John
Subj:
[MDCAROLI] RE: Hardcastle reportDate:
08/16/2000 7:30:25 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
MDCAROLI-L@
Hello, all.
Just under a year ago I announced I had placed the first draft of my Hardcastle report on my website, hosted by Family Tree Maker.
I had uploaded it to the "Report" section on the site, and unfortunately no index existed. This made it difficult to navigate in, and of little use to fellow researchers.
Now, the report is contained in the "Book" section of the site, and this does provide for an index. (Not the best index in the world, but at least it's an index). I have also re-titled the report to be "Descendants of Robert Hardcastle, Sr.," rather than "Descendants of Marmaduke Hardcastle." (I do not dispute that Robert was Marmaduke's son, but wanted to keep things consistent on the site as referencing either the furthest-known American ancestor, or the emigrant-progenitor ancestor).
Here is a link to the site:
-C-Carter/BOOK-0001/0015 -0001.html
Please let me know if you have any questions, comments, corrections, or additions.
Thanks!
John
John
C. CarterPaternal surnames: Bailey, Carney, Carter/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston, Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor, Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Joy, Morgan, Morris, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Orem, Ridgeway, Wyatt
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Thursday, September 02, 1999 7:44 PMTo:
'HARDCASTLE-L@'; 'MDCAROLI-L@'; 'LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@'Cc:
'Hardcastle, Tom'; 'phardcastle@'; 'jdavid@'; 'mikecast@gmx.de'Subject:
Hardcastle report
Hello, all.
I hesitate to announce this, because it is not as complete as I would prefer, but I've finished the first draft of my Hardcastle report and posted it on my web site, located at:
-C-Carter
Near the bottom of that page, you will see a link for "Descendants of Marmaduke Hardcastle." I have concentrated solely on the descendants of Marmaduke's son Robert Hardcastle, Sr. (1711-1760), who emigrated to the Eastern Shore of Maryland ca. 1730-35. (part of Queen Anne's County which later became Caroline County).
I apologize that there is no index; Family Tree Maker does not seem to provide this. However, a couple of fellow researcher-cousins of mine have suggested I use PAF, which can create a web page from a database such as a GEDCOM. I may try this in the near future, at which time the URL for my report(s) will probably change.
In the meantime, I welcome any comments, additions, suggestions or corrections.
Thanks!
John
Subj:
Sarah A. Seeney DeanDate:
08/16/2000 11:09:37 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
One more quick question:
Regarding Jesse Dean III's first wife, Sarah A. Seeney, b. ca 1855--
Do we know who her parents were?
Thanks!
John
P.S.
Now down to only 30 items in the Inbox!!!!! Going to sleep now!----Answer ---- No info (RJT)
Subj:
Re: website linkingDate:
08/19/2000 12:48:58 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
AquaBettyTo:
spiff@We made an end run around the problem. lists all of your reports in the family section. Four of the specific reports link to your Table of Contents. Weird trouble, not worth fretting (and wasting time!) about.---------------------B&R Terry Family History: "The Moors of Delaware" ---------------------My mother taught me LOGIC:"Because I said so, that's why."
Subj:
RE: website linkingDate:
08/19/2000 11:10:27 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Cool--that'll work!
Thanks for the trouble to remedy this.
One last comment: in the Family Sites section, where the main link is followed by a listing of all the reports on my page, perhaps you could delete the listing of all the reports between Archibald Blankenship down to Dennis Trammell. These reports are from my maternal side, and would be of no interest to anyone working through the Mitsawokett site. The paternal ones are from Richard Bailey down to the Wyatt report.
Thanks again for everything!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Saturday, August 19, 2000 12:49 AMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: website linkingWe made an end run around the problem. 20Reportsnow lists all of your reports in the family section. Four of the specificreports link to your Table of Contents.Weird trouble, not worth fretting (and wasting time!) about.---------------------B&R Terry
Subj:
RE:
P.S.
RE: More Greetings from the East Coast!Date:
08/12/2000 1:08:29 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Thanks--
I would think that the only reports from my site that should be linked are those which would not otherwise be contained in your own site. Such as the Hardcastle, McCarty, etc.
I would trust your reports to be much more thorough and accurate, since you are receiving sources from many different individuals, either associated with the e-mail group or not.
Here are a few URL's--Descendants of Robert Hardcastle, Sr. (to replace report on Marmaduke Hardcastle)--
-C-Carter/BOOK-0001/0015- 0001.htmlDescendants of James McCarty/Carty(Carter), Sr.--
-C-Carter/BOOK-0001/0018- 0001.htmlDescendants of Robert Carney, Sr.--
-C-Carter/BOOK-0001/0004- 0001.html
I would have also listed my "Descendants of Thomas Carney" report (father of Hester Ann Carney, wife of Jesse Dean, Jr.), but I have a sneaking su spicion he is the same Thomas as in the first generation under Robert Carney, Sr. Needs more investigating.Descendants of (Father of Elizabeth, John
& William) Wyatt--
-C-Carter/BOOK-0001/0024- 0001.html
Let me know if you need any more.
Thanks very much for your help!
John
Subj:
Will the real John
Henry Mosley please stand up!Date:
08/16/2000 10:46:40 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
In looking at the web site, on the page for Lonee Gordon Corney, and brother Floyd Corney, I see that they married sisters Dorothy & Beatrice "Beady" Mosley, daughters of a John
Henry Mosley and Anna "Annie" Miller.
Mosley_bc1815/pafg04.htm# 7389
Where can I find this John
Henry Mosley? I have a John
Henry Mosley, but he was married to Addie Durham. I also have several other John
Mosleys, but can't seem to find the right one.
Thanks,
John
P.S.
My Inbox is down to 38 items!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whooopieeeeee!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Thursday, August 10, 2000 11:14 AMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: FW:
P.S.
RE: More Greetings from the East Coast!In a message dated 08/10/2000 7:04:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time,spiff@ writes:>Whoops -- started working on that and got distracted and then forgot it!Please tell us which reports you want listed and the URL for each.
Subj:
RE: Will the real John
Henry Mosley please stand up!Date:
08/20/2000 5:47:44 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
I've sent a message to Arlena "Pinky" Coker to ask her, since I know she has visited Floyd Corney and knows him.
If she doesn't know about John
Henry, then I will post a query to the group.
Thanks!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Sunday, August 20, 2000 4:29 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Will the real John
Henry Mosley please stand up!In a message dated 08/20/2000 11:07:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:>Only as a parent. We have to look at a death cert. for more info--or ask the group whether anyone knows more.---------------------B&R Terry
Subj:
Forthcoming/Uploaded PhotosDate:
08/13/2000 7:04:46 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Scanned a few photos yesterday evening and today, and was planning to send each one to you individually.
However, I thought I might check with you first as to whether it might be easier for you to access them through my website, where I've just uploaded all of them.
-C-Carter/
If you go to my site, and then scroll down to the "Family Photos" section, you will find the following:
(Not in same order):
* Elizabeth A. Carty/Carter
* Hopewell U. Carter (Sr.)
* Hopewell "Pal" Carter (Jr.) -- you already have 2 of the 4 that I uploaded.
* Rebecca Cott Ridgeway
* Sarah Catherine Ridgeway Carter
* John
Clayton Carter
* Mary Ann Dean Coker -- you already have, as a link to Lynn's site.
* John
Clayton Coker -- you already have 1 of the 2 that I uploaded.
* Lethia Harriett Coker Carter
* Phebe Carney Coker Reed
* Harriett Durham Carney
* Joel Durham -- you already have.
If you would like me to forward any of these to you individually, I would be very happy to do so. I've saved them all on diskette, and it would only take a moment to re-send. Just let me know.
On another note, I wanted to ask you whether you could please re-send the photos of Robert Dean and Catherine Morgan Dean (Carney) to me? I still have them, but they are in the copy of the MS Word document, and I can't figure out how to get them out of it, to upload to my FTM site. Are you able to re-send them to me as .jpg or .jpe files? Or if not, at least if they're sent separately (not part of a Word document), perhaps I'll be able to upload them successfully. Thanks.
Oh-- I also noticed that your link for a photo of Catherine Morgan Dean Carney (on the A-C page) points toward Lynn's website, even though the photo of she and Robert Dean can be found on your own site if you click on the link for Robert Burton Dean and scroll downward. Same thing for the listing of "Catharine Morgan (Dean, Carney)" on the M page). Also, the photo for Almira Wilson Dean which is listed as being on that same page as Robert Burton Dean is not displaying--you can only see a red X where the photo should be. Just a FYI.
Your link for Robert Dean DOES point to the Robert Dean photo family page, but this seems to be a different page than the one when you click on Robert Burton Dean. If you go to the Robert Dean link/page, then you CAN'T see the photo for Robert Burton Dean--just another red X signifying the photo is not connected.
Since my FTM site appears to be limited in the ways in which to organize the photos (in fact, I can't even choose which order they appear on the site), I plan to only place photos of my DIRECT ancestors there. I still have many other old photos that I hope to share with you for placement on the Mitsawokett site, as soon as I can get around to having them scanned.
Again, let me know if you'd like me to send you any of the photos I uploaded. I just thought it might be easier to have a link "point" to them, like for some of those pointing to Lynn's website. However, I'm not too knowledgeable on these things and perhaps it's even harder to build a link--I don't know.....
Anyway, let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks!
John
Subj:
Re: Forthcoming/Uploaded PhotosDate:
08/24/2000 5:45:28 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
AquaBettyTo:
spiff@Taking our cue from spiff, we answer lately, BUT 2000 is answered in 2000!! LOL.In a message dated 08/13/2000 7:04:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:>old business >Removed Robert Burton's photo until we can verify his ID. We may have confused son, Robert Bernard, with father.---------------------B&R Terry Family History: "The Moors of Delaware" ---------------------My mother taught me RELIGION - "You better pray that will come out of the carpet."
Subj:
RE: John
Allan/Allen Reed & Dorothy Rebecca Grimson/JDate:
08/27/2000 6:28:20 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')File: Reeds2.doc (11264 bytes)DL Time (50000 bps): < 1 minute
Hi, Ray & Betty.>> This message had an attachment of>> 22K which did not turn out well when>> downloaded. Can you do something>> differently to get the info to us?
Oops!!!
Forgot about this. Sorry.
Strange, I thought you had MS Word capabilities, since you've sent documents to me in Word before.... Maybe because I'm using Word 97 and maybe you have an older version...?
I'll attach again, and will make it save as Word 6.0 / 95....
Let me know if you can view this one.
Thanks, and my apologies again for taking so long to re-forward.
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Sunday, August 20, 2000 1:29 AMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: John
Allan/Allen Reed & Dorothy Rebecca Grimson/JimsoIn a message dated 08/16/2000 4:42:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,spiff@ writes:>Late? Hey--we are doing a JCC!!This message had an attachment of 22K which did not turn out well whendownloaded. Can you do something differently to get the info to us?Children ofJohn
Allan/Allen Reed &Dorothy Rebecca Grimson/Jimson/Simpson/Gibson/JensenFrom Lorraine's message of 06 Nov 98, unless notedFrom Betty & Ray's message (transcribed Bible records), 02 Sep 99Annie, b. 1871Anne/Annia, b. 20 Aug 1870Rosetta, b. 1872Rosey, b. 21 May 1872Harriett, b. 1874Harrit, b. 07 Apr 1874William Henry, b. 1875William H./William Henry, b. 27 Jul 1875Ethel, b. Oct 1875*Effilinda "Effie", b. 1877Efelendiea, b. 19 Nov 1877John
Addison, Sr., b. 1877John
Allen, b. 17 Jan 1879Jai/James earther Garfield, b. 18 Jan 1881Harvey, b. 18 Mar 1880**Harvey A., b. 18 May 1883Walter A., b. 18 Mar 1885James, b. 1883Dasey (male), b. 1885Leslie, b. 1888James Lesey, b. 30 Mar 1887Harry E., b. 20 Apr 1889Leuis A., b. 21 Oct 1890Helen, b. 1892Helen, b. 03 May 1892*date from Lorraine's msg of 01 Dec 98**date from Linda Harmon's chart, forwarded by Lynn Jackson, 31 Aug 99
Subj:
FW: ReedsDate:
08/27/2000 6:16:29 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Realized I had not forwarded Lorraine's reply to you.
FYI.
JCC
-----Original Message-----
From:
LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent:
Tuesday, August 22, 2000 1:13 AMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: ReedsJohn
,Allen Reed's date came from our handwritten notes the old Magnolia recordsthat were transcribed years ago. I was talking about the age difference'sfrom the census records and the death record. I have never seen the Biblerecords. Thanks.Most of the Reed Records that I have came from the Dean Family papers, and agreat deal of that was from Census Records. The other paper's that I havewere done by Linda Reed Harmon. You know Census records ages differ fromyear to year, and some of the names are probably nick names. For instancethe 1900 census record, that I have looks like Ethel and is probablyEffalinda. I have heard people talk about Dasey Reed and that he lived inJersey. Other than thatI don't know what to tell you.Lorraine
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Wednesday, August 16, 2000 4:44 PMTo:
'AquaBetty@'; 'Gregg, Lorraine'Cc:
'Harmon, Linda Reed'; 'Jackson, Lynn'Subject:
John
Allan/Allen Reed & Dorothy Rebecca Grimson/Jimson/Simpson/Gibson/Jensen
Hi, Betty & Ray, & Lorraine.
As Betty & Ray noted, I have also noticed some discrepancies in comparing the list of children from Betty & Ray's transcribed Bible records below, when compared to the list of children provided by Lorraine in her message of 06 Nov 1998 (both messages attached below, along with a follow-up message from Lorraine from 01 Dec 1998).
I've placed all the names & dates into a table, in the attached MS Word document. Let me know if you are unable to view it.
Anyone have any ideas how to clear up the names/dates of the children?
Other items of note:
The Bible shows REBECCA Reed as dying on 13 Feb 1929, whereas Lorraine's message provides a source of ALLEN Reed dying on that date. (Lorraine: maybe this is why the months/days/year wouldn't work in the calculation you were describing in your 01 Dec 98 message...?) >
Thanks!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Thursday, September 02, 1999 7:33 PMTo:
JACKLYN001@; spiff@Subject:
EFFILINDA REED CARNEY BIBLEEFFILINDA REED CARNEY BIBLECopied 30 Jul 1999 at the home of Colette Carney Wheatley, Dover, Del.Effilinda was her grandmother.Bible copyrighted 1890(Bullets added)Marriages:. Allen Reed was married to Rebecca Jenson, his wife March 6, 1870Births:(All the following births were written as one long paragraph.). Anne Reed first daughter of Allen and his wife Rebecca was Bornde August20, 1870. Rosey Reed second daughter of Allen and his wife Rebecca was bornde May 21,1872. Harrit Reed third daughter of Allen and Rebecca his wife was bornd April 7,1874. William H. Reed first son of Allen and Rebecca his wife was bornd July 27,1875. Efelendiea (writing poor, probably Effilinda) Reed fourth daughter of Allenand Rebecca his wife was bornd November 19, 1877. John
Allen Reed second son of Allen and Rebecca his wife was bornd January17, 1879. Ja i ?earther (writing poor) Garfield Reed third son of Allen and Rebecca his wife was bornd January 18 : 1881. Harvey A. Reed fourth son of Allen and Rebecca his wife was bornd May 18 :1883. Walter A. Reed fifth son of Allen and Rebecca his wife was bornd March 18,1885. James R. Carney son of Robert and Elmira Carney bornd August 8, 1870Deaths:. Harrey (could be Harvey) E. Reed died on the 27th of April 1884. Lives (could be Lewis) A. Reed died on November 10 1840. Rebecca Reed a wife of Allen Reed. she died February 13 1929. Rosa Reed died (no date)Memorandum:. Allen Reed was bornd November 25 1842. James Lesey Reed sixth son of Allen and Rebecca his wife was bornd March 301887. Harry E. Reed seventh son of Allen and Rebecca his wife was bornd April 20,1889. Leuis (may be Lewis) A. Reed Eight sond of Allen and Rebecca his wife was bornd Oct 21, 1890. Hellen Re Reed fifth daughter of Allen and Rebecca his wife was bornd . May3, 1892. November. 15 1916 Cecilia Carney. John
C Allen Reed (can't tell if it is meant to be letter C or a careless pen mark) was married to Rebecca Jemson his wife March 6 1870. Baby April 20 1889. Annia Reed the first of Allen and Rebecca his wife was bornd August the20th 1870. Rosey Reed the second daughter of Allen and Rebecca his wife was bornd May21, 1872. Rebecca his wife was bornd May 21, 1872 (this may be our writingerror--need to recheck). Harrit Reed third daughter of Allen and Rebecca his wife was bornd April 7,1874. William Henry Reed the first son of Allen and Rebecca his wife was borndJuly 27, 1875 Efelendiea (Effelinda?) Reed fourth daughter of Allen and Rebecca hiswife was bornd November (no day or year). and his wife was bornd November 19, 1877 (recorded thusly). John
Allen Reed was second son of Allen and his wife was bornd January 17,1879 James earther garfield Reed the third son of Allen and his wife was borndJanuary 18, 1881. Harvey A. Reed the fourth son of Allen and Rebecca his wife was bornd May18, 1883. Walter A Reed the fifth son of Allen and Rebecca his wife was bornd March 18, 1885. James lesey ?? Reed the sixth son of Allen and Rebecca his wife was borndMarch 30, 1887A few notes regarding the Bible and Linda Harmon's e-mail:. Rebecca is called Jemson on another page; is called Simpson in death recordof daughter Annie; is called Dorothy Rebecca Gemson in e-mail from LindaHarmon, 30 Aug 1999). John
Allen Reed , son of Allen & Rebecca, is called John
Addison Reed byLinda Harmon. Allen Reed, son ot Thomas and Rosetta Reed, is first called "Allen Reed" inthe Bible and then "John
C (?) Allen Reed" later on.. Harvey Reed's birth is 18 May 1883 in Bible, 18 Mar 1880 in L. Harmon's list. Linda lists 6 children of Allen and (Dorothy) Rebecca Gimson/Jenson?Jemson.The Bible lists 13 children.. We have looked only at the Reeds of Harmon's e-mail, and then justsuperficially.B&R
-----Original Message-----
From:
LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent:
Tuesday, December 01, 1998 12:05 AMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Ridgeways/Reeds
Hi
John
:< snip >#4 I meant to type Allan Reed b March 1843 . Rebecca Grimson b 1845. I checked..., at first I though I might havetransposed the date. But if that be the case the months, days, year wouldn'twork. So then I looked for more census records and then it gets worse.1870Allan Reed age 27.1880Allan Reed age 391900Allan Reed b March 1845, age 55 wd, dau Ethel b Oct 1875 age 24< snip >Lorraine.
-----Original Message-----
From:
LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent:
Friday, November 06, 1998 6:48 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re:Coward/Ridgeway
Hi
John
:< snip >#3 Yes,Allen Reed b M, 1843 m Rebecca (Grimson/Jimson/Simpson, Gibson, Not sure ofspelling, again every time people from this family write the name they spellit different) b in 1945 De.Their children: all b in DEAnnie Reed b 1871 m Clemett CarneyRosetta Reed b 1872Harriet Reed b 1874William Henry Reed b 1875 m Buelah MorganEffilinda (Effie) Reed b 1877 m CarneyJohn
Addison Reed Sr b 1877 m Mamie Elva Morgan, dau of Napoleon & HarrietDurham MorganJames Reed b 1883Dasey Reed Male b 1885Leslie Reed b 1888Helen Reed b 1892 m Elwood Dean, son of Wm Frank and Elizabeth Mosley DeanThe Dean/Jackson family papers have the above names.The Reed family papers have the ones above and the two additional names below.Ethel Reed no datesHarvey Reed " "I haven't researched these families and have very few Census records on them.[other] RecordsAllen Reed b March 19 1854 d February 13 1929 age 74 yrs, 11 months and25 days. Parents: Thomas & Rosetta Reed of Md.Hope some of this helps.LorraineFrom:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@] Sent:
Monday, January 31, 2000 3:07 AMTo:
spiff@ Subject:
Re: James Franklin John
son or Franklin James John
sonIn a message dated 01/30/2000 9:12:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, spiff@ writes:> AHA. Got this one. Sherrin and her co-conspirator in murdering writtenEnglish, Sarah Seeney Sullivan, are cousins--but the lineage given has problems, as given below. Have made no other connection to this Carlton.>Sarah's mom is Lola Mae Ridgeway (pop Forrest Seeney). Lola's mother was S.V. Carter (as far as we know).Sherren's grandfather was Franklin James John
son. We have a problem here. Return John
son married S.V. Carter (mother of Lola) and Esther Hughes. We have a son listed for S.V. -- James Franklin John
son......AND Franklin James John
son for Ester Hughes. Probably the same man.So Sherren is saying Esther Hughes, not S.V. Carter is the mother of Lola Ridgeway! --Well, you sorta get the idea, but then...........Sherren's line is thru Return and Sarah's thru Earl. But how does she make Esther Hughes the mother of Lola Ridgeway? Was Earl married more than once? If so, was it to Esther Hughes? Maybe we are about to discover something here.Lorraine.
-----Original Message-----
From:
LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]Sent:
Friday, November 06, 1998 6:48 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re:Coward/Ridgeway
Hi
John
:< snip >#3 Yes,Allen Reed b M, 1843 m Rebecca (Grimson/Jimson/Simpson, Gibson, Not sure ofspelling, again every time people from this family write the name they spellit different) b in 1945 De.Their children: all b in DEAnnie Reed b 1871 m Clemett CarneyRosetta Reed b 1872Harriet Reed b 1874William Henry Reed b 1875 m Buelah MorganEffilinda (Effie) Reed b 1877 m CarneyJohn
Addison Reed Sr b 1877 m Mamie Elva Morgan, dau of Napoleon & HarrietDurham MorganJames Reed b 1883Dasey Reed Male b 1885Leslie Reed b 1888Helen Reed b 1892 m Elwood Dean, son of Wm Frank and Elizabeth Mosley DeanThe Dean/Jackson family papers have the above names.The Reed family papers have the ones above and the two additional names below.Ethel Reed no datesHarvey Reed " "I haven't researched these families and have very few Census records on them.[other] RecordsAllen Reed b March 19 1854 d February 13 1929 age 74 yrs, 11 months and25 days. Parents: Thomas & Rosetta Reed of Md.Hope some of this helps.Lorraine
Subj:
Will be in Baltimore Washington Airport on SaturdayDate:
09/06/2000 6:47:23 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hello, Ray & Betty.
I realize this is late notice, but I finally put two and two together, and realized that my upcoming 3-hour layover at Baltimore Washington Airport this Saturday, and the fact that y'all live nearby, might lead to an opportunity for meeting...?
I started out by wondering if I should ask you whether you knew how long it would take to travel from BWI to the Shaw district of Washington DC and back...since this is where the African American Civil War Memorial is located, and I would love to view the plaque with Cornelius Ridgeway's name on it. But, soon realized that was wishful thinking and probably a sure way for me to miss my connecting flight! Also, had to look up Beltsville on the map, and hadn't realized where it was.
I will be travelling with 3 friends on our way to visit other friends in Maine for the week. (Ahh, some nice COOL temperatures).
Just thought I would check with you as to what plans you might have.....no problem if you're busy. (We brought dice and cards to entertain us in the airport!) :-)
Thanks,
John
Subj:
P.S.
RE: Will be in Baltimore Washington Airport on SaturdayDate:
09/06/2000 6:48:43 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
OOPS, guess it would help if I gave you the times--
Our plane lands at BWI at 9:30am and departs at 12:20pm, this Saturday the 9th.
JCC
Subj:
Re:
P.S.
RE: Will be in Baltimore Washington Airport on SaturdayDate:
09/09/2000 5:49:01 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
AquaBettyTo:
spiff@
Hi
John
, Sorry we were not able to meet with you. We returned from a trip to Delaware 1/2 hours ago. We left Tuesday at noon, so did not see your message until now. We met with many people and acquired a lot of information about fairly recent generations, nothing new about the many brick walls we have.We will get the info worked up and send it out within the week.Have an enjoyable visit to Maine!---------------------B&R Terry
Subj:
RE:
P.S.
RE: Will be in Baltimore Washington Airport on SaturdayDate:
09/17/2000 8:26:13 AM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Thanks!
Sorry we weren't able to hook up!
The trip was GREAT! Returned last night, and just turned on my pc to find 154 messages waiting! :-)
Chat at ya later,
Bye,
John
d up and send it out within the week.Have an enjoyable visit to Maine!---------------------B&R Terry
Subj: [Mitsawokett] RE: John Henry Mosley – John "Monkey" Mosley questionDate:
09/22/2000 11:13:48 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
Mitsawokett@To:
Hello, Betty & Ray, and all.On Sep 20th, Betty & Ray wrote:>> Mosley question -- was John
Henry Mosley>> known as John "Monkey" Mosley?>> John
Henry married Anna Miller and had children -->> Dorothy m Lonee Carney>> Beatrice m 1)Floyd Carney 2) ---Childress>> Wallton m ?>> Horace m ?>> Ida m ----Cokey (or Coker)>> Doris m ----Durham>> In our records we have John
"Monkey" Mosley>> with no wife and one child, IdaMae who married>> Stanley Coker.
This is very interesting. Although I had a John
Henry Mosley and a John
H. Mosley in my files, neither one appears to have been the same as the one you've mentioned. And whereas I had Ida Mae Mosley Coker, Dorothy Mosley Carney (actually, I have Floyd as a Corney not a Carney) and Beatrice Mosley Carney in my files, I had no idea they were siblings, and had not known who their parents were.
Have you received any further info on this family from other list members yet?
Thanks!
John
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 23:18:19 -0400 From: "John
C. Carter" Subject: RE: Welcome to Kuskarawoak
Hello, all.
I've just recently joined the group, and am familiar with some of you from other list(s).
However, to many of you I am new (pleased to make your acquaintance!) and in response to the welcome-message of...>> We ask that you submit a small intro and the>> surnames of the families that you are affiliated>> with from the Sussex County Delaware area...
...here are the names of families from Sussex County from which I descend:- - - - -
1. Ridgeway / Ridgway / Ridgware / etc.
My oldest known ancestor in this line was William Ridg(e)way, Sr. (b. ca. 1804 in Sussex Co, DE; d. Feb 1867 in prob. Kent Co, DE). He married Deborah / Deby Handsor / Hanzer.- - - - -
2. Handsor / Hanzer.
My oldest known ancestor in this line was Deborah / Deby Handsor / Hanzer, (b. ca. 1808 in Sussex Co, DE; d. 15 Jan 1876, in prob. Kent Co, DE). She married William Ridg(e)way, Sr. Don't know who her parents were. (Would LOVE to find out!)- - - - -
3. Jackson.
My oldest known ancestor in this line was Eliza Jackson (b. ca. 1814, DE; d. unknown, in prob. Kent Co, DE). She married James Coker, who was born in Maryland but relocated to Kent County, DE. I do not know if Eliza was from Sussex County, but my assumption would be that she was probably related to the other Jacksons of Kent & Sussex Counties, all of whom seem to have descended from those from the Seaford area. I don't know who her parents were, but would LOVE to find this out, also.- - - - -
4. (possibly) Dean.
I have two Dean lines, which tie back together and descend from James Dean (d. Jun 1787) of Kent County, DE. However, there were many Deans in Sussex County as well, and an undiscovered connection may exist.- - - - -
Thanks very much for any information anyone might have on these lines, and please let me know if there's anything I can share with you!
Sincerely,
John
Subj: Library of Congress
Date: 10/09/2000 10:35:09 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John C. Carter)
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hello!
How has everything been?
Hope you both are doing good, and your family, too.
As you can tell, I haven't been devoting as much time to genealogy lately, and am falling behind again. Seems like there's just too many messages that require extensive time to answer. I try to get the quickies out, but am falling behind on the in-depth stuff....
Anyway, I was wondering if you ever go into Washington for research, or if you know of anyone who does...? Specifically, the Library of Congress? For months I've been trying to obtain copies of a journal there, to no avail. My local library has tried repeatedly to request a copy (microfilm, whatever) through Inter-Library Loan, but they (Library of Congress) won't even respond! I've contacted a researcher-for-hire there, but her fees are outrageous. I'm not sure what else to do in terms of trying to get access to a microfilm or photocopies or whatever.
If you have any suggestions, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks!
John
Subj: Re: Library of CongressDate:
10/09/2000 11:09:08 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
AquaBetty
To: spiff@In a message dated 10/09/2000 10:35:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:>Go to sure to include that last "1">Thanks for the scans. The photo looks better than the one we had. See ertBurton.htmAOL automatically compresses (to .zip format) multiple attachments. We haveno problem viewing .zip files. Others do. There is freeware and shareware available to uncompress .zip files.---------------------B&R Terry
Subj:
Re: photo of R.B. Dean & familyDate:
10/26/2000 12:29:27 PM Eastern Daylight TimeFrom:
AquaBettyTo:
spiff@In a message dated 10/25/2000 12:14:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:>Would love to have a copy. We have noticed that many photos lose quality when the translation to web format is made. Perhaps it is the low quality jpeg format. But we have to use that or loading time becomes too long. We have met Donna Collins just once and have not followed up. You can contact her at (as of Nov 1997) --Donna A. Collins 5825 Hil Mar Dr. Forestville, MD 20747 301-736-4865---------------------B&R Terry Family History: "The Moors of Delaware" ---------------------There are over 130 members on the Mitsawokett Mailing List. Posting backto the list helps the whole group, not just one person. "If we work as a team, we'll succeed as a team." (NativeAmericanDelmarva List)
Subj:
RE: Carters and Mosleys and Deans, oh my!Date:
10/28/2000 5:55:49 PM Eastern Standard TimeFrom:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')CC:
JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
I'd planned on getting back to you on this sooner, but things just keep getting in the way.
Anyway, I'm planning on posting the analysis of this to the Mitsawokett group, but I wanted to wait until I can get some estate-transcriptions of James McCarty / Carty, Sr. completed & the link loaded to my website, so I can mention this in the same post. I started out about a week and a half ago, transcribing the particular piece of the estate documents that lists James as both McCarty and Cartey, (before the re-analysis of the Carty / Wyatt Bible). but then decided I should include all other documents pertaining to the settlement of the estate as well, in case someone wants to refer to these as well. (Most of these other documents all list his name as Carty). Upon the re-analysis, I decided I could list all of this in the same post to the group.
I'm not sure how many McCarty / Carty / Carter descendants are in the group, but I'm curious to see what other comments or analysis it initiates.
Will keep you posted....
Thanks,
John
P.S.
You asked where I saw the "died in or and Maryland" notations on the website. They were listed in the text following the names of the individuals I noted, in the family report for "Descendants of James Dean." (They may have been in the "Descendants of Solomon Wilson" as well).
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Tuesday, October 24, 2000 2:21 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Carters and Mosleys and Deans, oh my!Wow is right! Your overall analysis appears to be right on! We had not yetsearched for Mary Augusta Carter's ancestry. Grace & Wilson Davis had seen aBible which listed Mary's age at death --"89 yr 9 mo at death 12 Feb 1932 = 12 May 1842"The Bible appears to state 10 or 12 or 18 May 1842.Wilson & Grace had done a lot of research but had not recorded many of theirsources, which is frustrating when we come up against differing claims andcannot offer concrete proof to buttress their (W&G's) findings. DonnaCollins, who lives about 15 miles from us, does not know much about herancestry. She is the repository of the family's photos and files andgraciously permitted us to photograph her photos. Most of them wereannotated, praise the Lord!We had not made the connection with the Wyatt/Carty Bible because it appearedto us that the entry for Mary actually spelled out "Ella Gusty" -- butlooking at it again we both agree with you that it is Mary.It appears that the Wyatts are listed on the left of each page of the Birth record and the Cartys on the right (for the most part) -- "of the same two" becomes clearer when the pages are viewed this way. Mary Jane would follow George in birth order.As far as databasing and web paging, none of us knew what to do with theCarty births on the second page because of the questions, so did nothing.Lynn does not list them, you did not and we did not.If we could convince them to participate, it would be very easy to determinefrom the male descendants of Benjamin Mosley, Wingate Mosley, Purnell Mosley& John
Mosley, all born 1815 - 1822 and living in Kent County, Delawarewhether they shared a Y chromosome in common. Another set of possiblebrothers are the Morgans, John
, William & James b 1804 - 1820.It would not prove they were brothers, just that they shared a common maleancestor.For instance, though Thomas Jeffeson had no sons through his wife, it hasbeen shown that Thomas Jefferson's mistress, Sally Hemings, bore a son, EstonHemmings, with the Jefferson Y chromosome. (Her son, Thomas Woodson, had aY with European characteristics but not Jeffersonian.) Living descendantsof Field Jefferson, Thomas' uncle and of Eston Hemmings were tested. See,"The Y chromosome in Genealogical Research: "From Their Ys a Father Knows HisOwn Son," by Thomas H. Roderick, National Genealogical Society Quarterly, Vol88, No. 2, June 2000, pp. 122-143.As Bill mentions, the testing is free if the BYU people do it, but theyrequire 200 in order for them to justify the cost of trip to, for instance, the Cheswold Fire House.The meeting at Suitland, MD was widely publicized and perhaps about 300showed up. It would have to be agreed beforehand that Y testing (ormitochondrial DNA testing) would be done as this is not their usual mode of investigation.Other clinics will be held in the future. The next one close to Delaware isApril 28, 2001 at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. See the web site more information.---------------------B&R Terry
Subj:
More DNA stuffDate:
1/16/01 4:21:00 AM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, again.
By the way, has Betty and her purported first cousin undergone the DNA test mentioned in the message from October, attached below? I take it that that is a separate issue from this one we discussed back in July:>> Grace's grandmother, we learned from Wilson's>> brother, was convinced that Willard was Betty's father....>> I would like to find Willard's two kids and see if there>> is a resemblance, but wiser minds rule here--Betty's.>> No need to monkey with the kids' memory of their dad.>> Some day our kids or grandchildren might want to know.>> That will be a job they will have to do by themselves.
In the message below, when you say "plausible that her father is Nelson Morgan" is the "her" you're referring to Betty's cousin?
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Tuesday, October 24, 2000 2:21 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Carters and Mosleys and Deans, oh my!< snip >We will be heading to Delaware Thursday and return Monday. Plan to visitfolks, return borrowed material, take pix & blitz the Archives for bdm ofMorgans. Betty and her purported 1st cousin are, when we find out the whos and wheres, going to undertake a DNA study to see if it is plausible that herfather is Nelson Morgan, brother of Harry Napoleon Morgan.B&R TerryFamily History: "The Moors of Delaware"
Subj:
Re: DNA testingDate:
1/16/01 5:19:29 AM !!!First Boot!!!From:
AquaBettyTo:
spiff@We believe special testing is done if it can be justified. They do the judgment. See are right about the Y chromosome. Only the topmost line of the pedigree chart pertains--your Hardcastle. And the bottom-most line for mitochondrial DNA, the REALLY maternal line.We sent a message to Dr. Woodward's associate today for references to help us with Betty's little problem. Will let you know the response. It may help with the Hardcastle testing.Betty may be the daughter of Nelson Morgan, brother to Harry Morgan who is the father of Alice Conway who may be Betty's 1st cousin and who is willing to do the test.We seem to have acquired some ORBIT relatives recently!---------------------B&R Terry Family History: "The Moors of Delaware"
Subj:
RE: DNA testingDate:
1/17/01 3:49:23 AM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
WOW, great news! (I think). I'm in the process of composing a letter to the BYU folks, and was asking whether they could perform a Y-chromosome test of me here in February and on my Hardcastle cousin in Philadelphia in April (if he agrees to or is able to go to Philly), and I was checking their website to make sure I had the correct dates, and I see that they've ADDED another Maryland date!!
They will now also be in Frederick, MD on April 28th! This is near enough to DC that my cousin may be able to make it!!
Were you aware of this? I'm pretty sure they just added it today, and I'm almost positive I looked at the site last night and the Frederick site wasn't listed. Apparently there is a large interest in the area. (As a result of Mitsawokett, by any chance?)
Wow, I can't wait to get my inquiry sent off!
Going to finish typing it now.....
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Tuesday, January 16, 2001 12:19 AMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: DNA testingWe believe special testing is done if it can be justified. They do the judgment.See are right about the Y chromosome. Only the topmost line of the pedigree chart pertains--your Hardcastle. And the bottom-most line for mitochondrial DNA, the REALLY maternal line.We sent a message to Dr. Woodward's associate today for references to help us with Betty's little problem. Will let you know the response. It may help with the Hardcastle testing.Betty may be the daughter of Nelson Morgan, brother to Harry Morgan who is the father of Alice Conway who may be Betty's 1st cousin and who is willing to do the test.We seem to have acquired some ORBIT relatives recently!---------------------B&R Terry
Subj:
FW: Molecular Genealogy ProjectDate:
1/18/01 4:11:40 AM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
I received a quick response, too!
Not quite as encouraging as the response you received, but still encouraging!
John
P.S.
If the BYU folks express further interest to you in collecting more samples in relation to the remnant Indian communities as you cited, might I then mention your contact with Joel Myres in a subsequent communication to my contact-person (Ugo Perego) below, and propose that my sample might be of use in a "dual purpose," as being associated with the Mitsawokett folks as well as for my own test?
-----Original Message-----
From:
Molecular Genealogy [SMTP:molecular-genealogy@email.byu.edu]Sent:
Wednesday, January 17, 2001 7:42 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Molecular Genealogy ProjectJohn
,your situation is something that we can definetely consider and work on.However, we do not collect samples for special cases during our blood draws around the country. The procedure for "Special Cases" takes a little morework. First we need to see when we can work on it (time is always an issuewith us, since our main goal is to build the Molecular Genealogy Database). Second, we have to look at your situation and determine if it is doable and how much it would cost. BYU is a non-profit organization, but there arecost involved with material and workers that need to be covered. However, I can guarantee you that it will not be any close to the price that you weregiven by the other lab. Then, after evaluating the situation, we willcollect your sample through special kits in the mail.You are more than welcome to come to one of our lectures and samplecollection and take part in the database construction at this time. We will work on your case separately.Thanks,Ugo A. PeregoDirector of Public RelationsMolecular Genealogy Research Group. (801) 378-1245fax. (801) 378-1576775 WIDB - BYUProvo, UT 84602USA
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Tuesday, January 16, 2001 11:12 PMTo:
'molecular-genealogy@email.byu.edu'Subject:
Molecular Genealogy Project
Hello.
My name is John
C. Carter, and I read with interest an article in my local paper (the "St. Petersburg, FL Times"), stating that your organization would be in the area on February 10th to collect samples for a study that merges genetics with genealogy.
Also, the issue was familiar to me, as I belong to several genealogical research groups, including a group referred to as "Mitsawokett," based upon the Native American ancestry of most of the members in the group. In the e-mail list of this group a few months ago, there was also a reference to your efforts, but alas I did not study it at length, as the group is based upon research in the Delaware / Maryland / New Jersey area, and the event being referred to at the time was to have taken place in Suitland, MD last November. Little did I know that I could have prompted several genealogy-minded relatives in the area to submit samples for testing, had I known that your group would eventually be coming to my area of the country as well.
Now, upon realizing that you will be in my local area as well, I had a couple of questions pertaining to your study.
One of my ancestors in my male line, my great-grandfather, was an illegitimate child. Due to the knowledge being passed down in my family, along with some circumstantial evidence, we know who his biological father was purported to have been. However, one of my goals for years has been to try to solidify the evidence of this relationship. I have been in touch with a male cousin, who is descended from a separate, legitimate branch of this family, also through his male line. When he and I discussed this subject, he stated his willingness to undergo with me such a test that would seek to identify (i.e. prove) that we were descended from a common male ancestor. I believe such testing is referred to as Y-chromosome testing. The costs of such testing have prevented us from pursuing this effort previously. (One lab that I contacted wanted $400 per sample in order to perform the tests).
Would your organization be able to assist in such a test? My understanding is that your current efforts are more in terms of standard DNA testing, rather than Y-chromosome or mitochondrial testing. But a fellow researcher (from the Mitsawokett genealogical group I mentioned) has suggested (based on previous communication with your group) that such tests might be possible if arranged in advance. Would I be able to have Y-chromosome testing done when your group takes samples in Largo, Florida on February 10th?
Unfortunately, my male cousin does not live in this area. However, if the same Y-chromosome testing could be conducted for him in your Frederick, Maryland site on April 28th, this would be great as he resides near the Washington DC area.
If necessary, and/or if you are interested in performing such tests, I would be happy to provide further background information as to the specific relationship between my cousin and myself, and how our male ancestral lines intersect. Furthermore, even if you are unable to perform the Y-chromosome testing, I would still be happy to assist your group in whatever way I can by submitting a sample for "regular" DNA testing.
Thank-you very much for your time and consideration, and I look forward to your response.
Sincerely,
John
C. Carter
email: spiff@
(727) 545-9933
St. Petersburg, Florida
Subj:
FW: Molecular Genealogy ProjectDate:
1/18/01 11:19:17 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
The status of my request at this point. Waiting patiently,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Molecular Genealogy [SMTP:molecular-genealogy@email.byu.edu]Sent:
Thursday, January 18, 2001 11:56 AMTo:
spiff@Subject:
RE: Molecular Genealogy ProjectWait to hear back from us. If you will not hear anything within the next couple of weeks, please follow up with us.Thanks,Ugo A. PeregoDirector of Public RelationsMolecular Genealogy Research Group. (801) 378-1245fax. (801) 378-1576775 WIDB - BYUProvo, UT 84602USA-----------------------------------------------------------At 12:14 AM 1/18/01 -0500, you wrote:> Greetings, Ugo.> I read with great interest your reply, and your thoughts concerning my efforts to establish my ancestry by genetic testing in a "special case" scenario. I thank you very much for your consideration. At this point shall I submit any further background information concerning my ancestry and/or my case? Or shall I wait until I hear back from your>staff? (I was unclear on what the next step should be).> Thanks again,> John
C. Carter>
-----Original Message-----
>From: Molecular Genealogy [SMTP:molecular-genealogy@email.byu.edu]>Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 7:42 PM>To: spiff@>Subject: Re: Molecular Genealogy Project>>John
, your situation is something that we can definetely consider and work on. However, we do not collect samples for special cases during our blood draws around the country. The procedure for "Special Cases" takes a little more work. First we need to see when we can work on it (time is always an issue with us, since our main goal is to build the Molecular Genealogy Database). Second, we have to look at your situation and determine if it is doable and how much it would cost. BYU is a non-profit organization, but there are cost involved with material and workers that need to be covered. However, I can guarantee you that it will not be any close to the price that you were given by the other lab. Then, after evaluating the situation, we will collect your sample through special kits in the mail.>>You are more than welcome to come to one of our lectures and sample collection and take part in the database construction at this time. We will work on your case separately.>>Thanks,>>Ugo A. Perego>Director of Public Relations>Molecular Genealogy Research Group>>molecular-genealogy@email.byu.edu>tel. (801) 378-1245>fax. (801) 378-1576>775 WIDB - BYU>Provo, UT 84602>USA>>At 11:11 PM 1/16/01 -0500, you wrote:> > Hello.> >> > My name is John
C. Carter, and I read with interest an article in my local paper (the "St. Petersburg, FL Times"), stating that your organization would be in the area on February 10th to collect samples for a study that> >merges genetics with genealogy. > > Also, the issue was familiar to me, as I belong to several genealogical research groups, including a group referred to as "Mitsawokett," based upon the Native American ancestry of most of the members in the group. In the> >e-mail list of this group a few months ago, there was also a reference to your efforts, but alas I did not study it at length, as the group is based upon research in the Delaware / Maryland / New Jersey area, and the event being referred to at the time was to have taken place in Suitland, MD last November. Little did I know that I could have prompted several> >genealogy-minded relatives in the area to submit samples for testing, had I known that your group would eventually be coming to my area of the country as well.> >> >Now, upon realizing that you will be in my local area as well, I had a couple of questions pertaining to your study.> >> > One of my ancestors in my male line, my great-grandfather, was an illegitimate child. Due to the knowledge being passed down in my family, along with some circumstantial evidence, we know who his biological father was purported to have been. However, one of my goals for years has been to try to solidify the evidence of this relationship. I have been in touch with a male cousin, who is descended from a separate, legitimate branch of this family, also through his male line. When he and I discussed this subject, he stated his willingness to undergo with me such a test that would seek to identify (i.e. prove) that we were descended from a common male ancestor. I believe such testing is referred to as Y-chromosome> >testing. The costs of such testing have prevented us from pursuing this effort previously. (One lab that I contacted wanted $400 per sample in order to perform the tests).> >> >Would your organization be able to assist in such a test? My understanding is that your current efforts are more in terms of standard DNA testing, rather than Y-chromosome or mitochondrial testing. But a fellow researcher (from the Mitsawokett genealogical group I mentioned) has suggested (based on previous communication with your group) that such tests might be possible if arranged in advance. Would I be able to have Y-chromosome testing done when your group takes samples in Largo, Florida on February 10th?> >> >Unfortunately, my male cousin does not live in this area. However, if the same Y-chromosome testing could be conducted for him in your Frederick, Maryland site on April 28th, this would be great as he resides near the> >Washington DC area. If necessary, and/or if you are interested in performing such tests, I would be happy to provide further background information as to the specific relationship between my cousin and myself, and how our male ancestral>lines intersect. Furthermore, even if you are unable to perform the Y-chromosome testing, I would still be happy to assist your group in whatever way I can by submitting a sample for "regular" DNA testing.> >> > Thank-you very much for your time and consideration, and I look> > forward to> >your response.> >> > Sincerely,> > John
C. Carter> > email: spiff@> > (727) 545-9933> > St. Petersburg, Florida
Subj:
[Kuskarawoak] RE: DNA testingDate:
1/20/01 8:04:08 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
Kuskarawoak@To:
Kuskarawoak@ ('Kuskarawoak List')
Hello, all.
On Friday, 19 Jan 2001, Betty & Ray Terry wrote:>> We have received a response from BYU.>> They may be able to work the Mosley (&>> others) in a special project. From a message>> John
Carter has received, there will be a fee,>> but not the $400 that John
was quoted by a>> different lab.>> They send sample kits. We do not know>> whether this will be a blood sample or>> a scraping of the inner cheek.>> A pedigree chart is required to get the ball>> rolling. In addition to the group's interests,>> we have interests of our own....>> John
may want to share info he has received.
I would be happy to share any of the information about my quest or the responses I've received from BYU. Rather than post or attach all the details here, I'll provide a brief synopsis, and those interested can contact me for more.
My great-grandfather, Hopewell Umphrey Carter, (28 Jan 1857 - 13 Feb 1933) (often referred to as Hopewell Carter, Sr., but his son Hopewell Jr--my grandfather--did not have the middle name Umphrey) was an illegitimate son of Elizabeth A. Carty / Carter (20 Apr 1821 - 26 Mar 1906), who changed her name from Carty to Carter (as did several of her brothers and sisters) around the time of her son's birth and/or her and her Carty/Carter sibling's migrations from Caroline County, MD to Kent Co, DE.
Elizabeth A. and her siblings Rebecca Carty/Carter, James Carty, William W. Carty/Carter, John
A. Carty/Carter, Henrietta Carty/Carter Morgan, George T. Carty/Carter, and Mary Jane Carty/Carter Carney were all children of William Carty and Elizabeth Wyatt (who was quoted by an interviewee in Weslager's "Delaware's Forgotten Folk" as a full-blood Indian).
Elizabeth was never married, but family stories relayed that the father of her son was a wealthy Dr. Hardcastle in Caroline County. There was at least some minimal contact between the Carter family and the Hardcastle family in subsequent years, before contact was eventually lost/severed. Research revealed a Dr. Alexander Hardcastle (02 Jan 1826 - 24 Jan 1911), who seemed to be the likely candidate. William Carty's household and the Hardcastle family estate are enumerated on the same page with each other (suggesting close proximity) in at least the 1820 and 1840 censuses; further research regarding their proximity (as well as land and tax records) needs to be done for other years. Additional circumstantial evidence was discovered upon acquiring Hopewell Sr's death certificate, which listed his father as "Alexander Carter." It is assumed that the informant(s) of the death certificate either gave the father's name as "Alexander Carter" to avoid the stigma of illegitimacy, or perhaps they merely answered the question verbally as "Alexander" and the compiler wrote down "Alexander Carter," assuming that the surname would be the same.
At any rate, I have long sought further evidence to establish that Dr. Alexander Hardcastle, Sr. was indeed the biological father of Hopewell U. Carter, Sr. For several years I have been in touch with a Hardcastle cousin who lives in the Washington DC area, and who also has genealogy as a hobby. Knowing that he is descended (through another line) from the paternal grandfather of Dr. Alexander Hardcastle, I asked this cousin about a year ago whether he would be interested in participating in a genetic test to determine whether we were descended from a common male ancestor, and he agreed.
After this initial inquiry to him last year, I contacted a lab which was able to perform such a test (a Y-chromosome test), but they wanted $400 per sample, which was quite expensive (especially considering that I would pay for both samples, since it is me who desires/needs the test to establish my line, not my cousin).
It was therefore with great interest when I learned of the current study being undertaken by the folks at BYU. (They will be here in the Tampa Bay, FL area on February 10th). After hearing that Betty & Ray Terry had contacted them regarding a personal request, I contacted them as well. I am currently awaiting further response from them as to what background information, etc, they will need to conduct the test, and what costs might be associated. As they mentioned in their response to me, "BYU is a non-profit organization, but there are cost involved with material and workers that need to be covered. However, I can guarantee you that it will not be any close to the price that you were given by the other lab." So, at this point, I am not sure what their costs will be, only that it will be less than the $400/sample quoted by the other lab.
If anyone has any questions regarding the Carter / Hardcastle connection, or wishes to receive further info from the BYU folks after I've followed up with them, please let me know.
I'm just excited that we live in a day & age when such tests can be performed, and what a help this science can be to the research of genealogy!
Take care,
John
P.S.
In addition to the BYU sample-taking date in Philadelphia on April 28th, they have also just added a new location: Frederick, Maryland (Washington DC area), also on April 28th.John
C. Carter
Subj:
Photo #1Date:
1/21/01 8:14:20 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')File: Sadie&Mary.JPG (14940 bytes)DL Time (639996 bps): < 1 minuteOn the right: Sadie Durham Pierce (Jun 1903 - Apr 1924),daughter of James E. H. "Porter" Durham and Harriett Jane Durham.Wife of Hartley Von Rupert Pierce, Sr.On the left:Unknown -- possibly Mary Durham Greenage?? (wife of Orsen Greenage and daughter of Hewitt/Hugh Durham and Angelica "Annie" Songo/Durham).(On this photo, and all other references to "Unknown" that follow, Debbie would like assistance from the group in helping to identify them).
Subj:
RE: Photos forthcoming (from Debbie)Date:
1/21/01 7:49:07 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
I am getting ready to send the photos I scanned for Debbie.
There will be a total of 16 photos, and I will place each one in a separate e-mail, with description and/or notes.
If you have any questions, please let Debbie or myself know.
Debbie's new e-mail address is:
deborahpunger@
(I don't think she has gotten around to changing it for the Mitsawokett list distribution yet. Since it's a new version of CompuServe's addresses, she has been relying on CompuServe to forward any messages that still go to her old e-mail address).
Thanks!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Tuesday, January 09, 2001 11:23 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Photos forthcoming (from Debbie)Great! Looking forward to them.Betty & Ray Terry11505 Montgomery Rd.Beltsville, MD 20705301-937-1766
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Tuesday, January 09, 2001 11:02 PMTo:
'Terry, Betty & Ray'Cc:
'Unger, Debbie'Subject:
Photos forthcoming (from Debbie)
Hello.
Debbie Pierce Unger was here this evening, and she brought over some wonderful old photos from her family for me to scan for her. Once scanned, I will be emailing them to you, for the Mitsawokett site. A few of them have unidentified folks in them, and we're hoping that someone might be able to identify them.
I may not get around to scanning them until this weekend. (I have a four-day weekend).
Thanks,
John
Subj:
P.S.
RE: Photos forthcoming (from Debbie)Date:
1/21/01 8:05:45 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')
P.S.
Since the Mitsawokett site has a page for unidentified photos, and of course several pages for identified photos, I'm not sure where you'd want to post the forthcoming ones which have some of the people in a shot as identified and some not.
I guess you could either post them in both places, or use your judgement as to where they should go.
Thanks again,
John
Subj:
[Mitsawokett] RE: "African Exodus" bookDate:
1/21/01 3:16:39 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
Mitsawokett@To:
Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
Hello, all.
On Saturday, January 20th, Betty & Ray Terry wrote (in the message entitled "Asian - Aleutian theory"):>> ...a book published in 1997, "African Exodus,>> The Origins of Modern Humanity" by Christopher>> Stringer & Robin McKie, Henry Holt & Co.,>> New York, which cites research pointing to>> DNA studies & a dental anomaly found in>> Asians & Native Americans, among others.
Just wanted to let those who might be interested that a few copies of this book (soft-cover and hard-cover) can be found via Bibliofind's website:
I found a nice hard-cover copy there a few days ago for only $9.00 (plus shipping), and just received it in the mail yesterday.
Just a little FYI....
Thanks,
John
John
C. Carter
Subj:
Photo #2Date:
1/21/01 8:17:03 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')File: Sadie&unk.JPG (9558 bytes)DL Time (639996 bps): < 1 minuteOn the left:Sadie Durham Pierce (Jun 1903 - Apr 1924),daughter of James E. H. "Porter" Durham and Harriett Jane Durham.Wife of Hartley Von Rupert Pierce, Sr.On the right:Unknown.
Subj:
Photo #3Date:
1/21/01 8:19:48 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')File: Unknown1.JPG (16253 bytes)DL Time (639996 bps): < 1 minuteUnknown.Possibly the same person as in Unknown2.jpg, being sent as Photo #4.Possibly the same person as in Unknown3.jpg, being sent as Photo #5.
Subj:
Photo #4Date:
1/21/01 8:21:52 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')File: Unknown2.JPG (15093 bytes)DL Time (639996 bps): < 1 minuteUnknown.Possibly the same person as in Unknown1.jpg, being sent as Photo #3.Possibly the same person as in Unknown3.jpg, being sent as Photo #5.
Subj:
Photo #5Date:
1/21/01 8:22:59 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')File: Unknown3.JPG (20435 bytes)DL Time (639996 bps): < 1 minuteUnknown.Possibly the same person as in Unknown1.jpg, being sent as Photo #3.Possibly the same person as in Unknown2.jpg, being sent as Photo #4.
Subj:
Photo #6Date:
1/21/01 8:38:50 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')File: Nieces&Aunts.JPG (21110 bytes)DL Time (639996 bps): < 1 minuteTop,Left to right:(daughters of James E. H. "Porter" Durham and Harriett Jane Durham)(nieces of the ladies below)Laura Durham Jackson, b. 1897, wife of John
JacksonGertrude Durham Durham, b. 1888, wife of Alfred Nort DurhamAnna Mae Durham Durham, b. 1892, d. 17 Sep 1958, wife of Benjamin DurhamMary Durham Pierce, b. 1894, wife of Roy K. PierceBottom,Left to right:(daughters of Hewitt/Hugh Durham and Angelica "Annie" Songo/Durham)(aunts of the above girls) (Harriett's sisters)Catherine "Kate" Durham Pierce, b. ca. Mar 1888, wife of Enos Pierce, Sr.Priscilla Durham Coward Miller (or Priscilla Durham Miller Coward), b. ca. Apr 1885, wife of William H. Coward, Sr. and John
Miller (Not sure which husband was first. JCC)Ella Durham Sammons, b. ca. Sep 1891, wife of William Garfield Sammons
Subj:
Photo #7Date:
1/21/01 8:44:24 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')File: Harriett&James.JPG (14891 bytes)DL Time (639996 bps): < 1 minuteHarriett Jane Durham (b. ca. Aug 1869, d. 30 Apr 1909) and her husband James E. H. "Porter" Durham (b. 10 May 1867, d. 27 Nov 1931).(small girl unknown).
Subj:
Whew! All doneDate:
1/21/01 9:44:58 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
A quick comment about the Mitsawokett page where the "unknown" photos are.
I noticed that if one goes to the Main Menu page, and then clicks on "Photographs," and as they begin to scroll down they will see a large box with "This page: Group photos and Surnames A-C. Click to go to Surnames D, E-L, M, N-R, S-Z." However, if the user doesn't scroll any further down, they won't see the box with "Please Identify These People."
Would it be possible to place a link of something like "Unknown" or whatever (signifying the "Please Identify These People") in the same box as the alphabetized, A-C, D, E-L, etc?
Just a suggestion. Otherwise, folks scrolling down might not realize they would have any reason to scroll down any farther than the alphabetical links. (Unless of course they were headed toward the A-C or group photos).
Thanks,
John
Subj:
[Mitsawokett] RE: DNA testingDate:
1/21/01 12:53:05 AM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
Mitsawokett@To:
Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
Hello, all.
On Friday, 19 Jan 2001, Betty & Ray Terry wrote:>> We have received a response from BYU.>> They may be able to work the Mosley (&>> others) in a special project. From a message>> John
Carter has received, there will be a fee,>> but not the $400 that John
was quoted by a>> different lab.>> They send sample kits. We do not know>> whether this will be a blood sample or>> a scraping of the inner cheek.>> A pedigree chart is required to get the ball>> rolling. In addition to the group's interests,>> we have interests of our own....>> John
may want to share info he has received.
I would be happy to share any of the information about my quest or the responses I've received from BYU. Rather than post or attach all the details here, I'll provide a brief synopsis, and those interested can contact me for more.
My great-grandfather, Hopewell Umphrey Carter, (28 Jan 1857 - 13 Feb 1933) (often referred to as Hopewell Carter, Sr., but his son Hopewell Jr--my grandfather--did not have the middle name Umphrey) was an illegitimate son of Elizabeth A. Carty / Carter (20 Apr 1821 - 26 Mar 1906), who changed her name from Carty to Carter (as did several of her brothers and sisters) around the time of her son's birth and/or her and her Carty/Carter sibling's migrations from Caroline County, MD to Kent Co, DE.
Elizabeth A. and her siblings Rebecca Carty/Carter, James Carty, William W. Carty/Carter, John
A. Carty/Carter, Henrietta Carty/Carter Morgan, George T. Carty/Carter, and Mary Jane Carty/Carter Carney were all children of William Carty and Elizabeth Wyatt (who was quoted by an interviewee in Weslager's "Delaware's Forgotten Folk" as a full-blood Indian).
Elizabeth was never married, but family stories relayed that the father of her son was a wealthy Dr. Hardcastle in Caroline County. There was at least some minimal contact between the Carter family and the Hardcastle family in subsequent years, before contact was eventually lost/severed. Research revealed a Dr. Alexander Hardcastle (02 Jan 1826 - 24 Jan 1911), who seemed to be the likely candidate. William Carty's household and the Hardcastle family estate are enumerated on the same page with each other (suggesting close proximity) in at least the 1820 and 1840 censuses; further research regarding their proximity (as well as land and tax records) needs to be done for other years. Additional circumstantial evidence was discovered upon acquiring Hopewell Sr's death certificate, which listed his father as "Alexander Carter." It is assumed that the informant(s) of the death certificate either gave the father's name as "Alexander Carter" to avoid the stigma of illegitimacy, or perhaps they merely answered the question verbally as "Alexander" and the compiler wrote down "Alexander Carter," assuming that the surname would be the same.
At any rate, I have long sought further evidence to establish that Dr. Alexander Hardcastle, Sr. was indeed the biological father of Hopewell U. Carter, Sr. For several years I have been in touch with a Hardcastle cousin who lives in the Washington DC area, and who also has genealogy as a hobby. Knowing that he is descended (through another line) from the paternal grandfather of Dr. Alexander Hardcastle, I asked this cousin about a year ago whether he would be interested in participating in a genetic test to determine whether we were descended from a common male ancestor, and he agreed.
After this initial inquiry to him last year, I contacted a lab which was able to perform such a test (a Y-chromosome test), but they wanted $400 per sample, which was quite expensive (especially considering that I would pay for both samples, since it is me who desires/needs the test to establish my line, not my cousin).
It was therefore with great interest when I learned of the current study being undertaken by the folks at BYU. (They will be here in the Tampa Bay, FL area on February 10th). After hearing that Betty & Ray Terry had contacted them regarding a personal request, I contacted them as well. I am currently awaiting further response from them as to what background information, etc, they will need to conduct the test, and what costs might be associated. As they mentioned in their response to me, "BYU is a non-profit organization, but there are cost involved with material and workers that need to be covered. However, I can guarantee you that it will not be any close to the price that you were given by the other lab." So, at this point, I am not sure what their costs will be, only that it will be less than the $400/sample quoted by the other lab.
If anyone has any questions regarding the Carter / Hardcastle connection, or wishes to receive further info from the BYU folks after I've followed up with them, please let me know.
I'm just excited that we live in a day & age when such tests can be performed, and what a help this science can be to the research of genealogy!
Take care,
John
P.S.
In addition to the BYU sample-taking date in Philadelphia on April 28th, they have also just added a new location: Frederick, Maryland (Washington DC area), also on April 28th.John
C. Carter
Subj:
RE: DNA - Sammons/Salmons and Handsor/Hanzer/Hansey/etc.Date:
1/21/01 11:20:16 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
billrich@ ('billrich'), aquabetty@ (Betty Terry)
Hi, Bill.
I think Betty & Ray have more info than I at this point, but I believe I speak correctly when I say that the Canadian members would probably NOT have to go to Philadelphia in order to participate in a special study. As it was explained to me, the pre-set dates in the cities on their "tour" are specifically for BYU's Molecular Genealogy project. Any special cases would be handled separately, and would probably involve sending sampling kits through the mail.
I will defer to Betty & Ray for any further suggestions on how the Mosley / Handsor / Sammons / Morgan groups might follow-up.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
billrich [SMTP:billrich@]Sent:
Monday, January 22, 2001 5:40 AMTo:
Betty Terry; John
C. CarterSubject:
DNA - Sammons/Salmons and Handsor/Hanzer/Hansey/etc.John
:Quote from your message:>> We have received a response from BYU.>> They may be able to work the Mosley (&>> others) in a special project.We have members of two families here in Canada who would like to participatein the study. Could come to Philadelphia, April 28.1) Sammons/Salmons/Samons/Simons.2) Handsor/Handser/Handzer/Hanzer perhaps Handley/Hansey.They would like to join their American family name counterparts in thestudy.How many participants are needed?___________Love to all,Bill
Subj:
Photo #8Date:
1/21/01 8:47:45 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')File: Orsen&Mary.JPG (17170 bytes)DL Time (639996 bps): < 1 minuteLeft to right:Unknown.Unknown.Mary Elizabeth Durham Greenage (1873-1943) (wife of Orsen Greenage and daughter of Hewitt/Hugh Durham and Angelica "Annie" Songo/Durham).Orsen Greenage.
Subj:
Photo #9Date:
1/21/01 8:54:07 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')File: BillyEtc.JPG (12541 bytes)DL Time (639996 bps): < 1 minuteLeft to right:William "Billy" Ridgway, (son of Greensboro "Greensbury" Ridgway, Sr. and Sarah "Sallie" Virginia Durham). (Sarah "Sallie" Virginia Durham was daughter of Hewitt/Hugh Durham and Angelica "Annie" Songo/Durham).Orsen Greenage (husband of Mary Elizabeth Durham, daughter of Hewitt/Hugh Durham and Angelica "Annie" Songo/Durham).Sadie Durham Pierce (b. Jun 1903, d. Apr 1924) (wife of Hartley Von Rupert Pierce, Sr.)
Subj:
Photo #10Date:
1/21/01 9:10:22 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')File: Sisters.JPG (17297 bytes)DL Time (639996 bps): < 1 minuteTop,Left to right:Cora E. Clark Durham, (sister-in-law of all those listed below), wife of John
W. Durham, who was the brother of all the other 6 women in photo)Priscilla Durham Coward Miller (or Priscilla Durham Miller Coward), b. ca. Apr 1885, wife of William H. Coward, Sr. and John
Miller (Not sure which husband was first. JCC)Margaret Durham Litinburg (I had Leitenberger in my file), b. 1883, d. 1952, wife of John
Leitenberger (or Litinburg?)Bottom,Left to right:Catherine "Kate" Durham Pierce, b. ca. Mar 1888, wife of Enos Pierce, Sr.Martha Durham Durham, b. May 1855, wife of Enoch Durham, Sr.Mary Elizabeth Durham Greenage, b. 1873, d. 1943, wife of Orsen Greenage.Ella Durham Sammons, b. ca. Sep 1891, d. 1969, wife of William Garfield Sammons.All of the women in this photograph are sisters, except for Cora who was a sister-in-law, and Martha was supposedly a half-sister to the others, being a daughter of Hewitt/Hugh by an earlier marriage than his marriage to Angelica "Annie" Songo/Durham, who was the mother of the other sisters.
Subj:
Photo #11Date:
1/21/01 9:15:58 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')File: MaryEtc.JPG (17256 bytes)DL Time (639996 bps): < 1 minuteTop,Left to right:Gladys Pierce, daughter of Mary Durham Pierce, below.Eleanor Pierce, daughter of Mary Durham Pierce, below.Bottom,Left to right:Unknown.Unknown.Mary Durham Pierce, (b. 1894),daughter of James E. H. "Porter" Durham and Harriett Jane Durham.Wife of Roy K. PierceSadie Durham Pierce (Jun 1903 - Apr 1924),daughter of James E. H. "Porter" Durham and Harriett Jane Durham.Wife of Hartley Von Rupert Pierce, Sr.
Subj:
Photo #12Date:
1/21/01 9:18:43 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')File: Unknown4.JPG (15235 bytes)DL Time (639996 bps): < 1 minuteUnknown.(Related to Eliza Durham Mosley??) (wife of James Ulet Mosley, and daughter of Harvey Durham and Lola Mae Durham)
Subj:
Photo #13Date:
1/21/01 9:21:57 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')File: poss_Cora.JPG (27399 bytes)DL Time (639996 bps): < 1 minuteUnknown.Possibly Cora E. Clark Durham, (sister-in-law of all those listed below), wife of John
W. Durham (John
W. b. ca. Mar 1868, d. 1954).
Subj:
Photo #14Date:
1/21/01 9:25:35 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')File: Benny&Anna.JPG (10843 bytes)DL Time (639996 bps): < 1 minuteBenjamin Durham (son of Daniel Durham and Caroline Carney), and his wife Anna Mae Durham Durham, (b. 1892, d. 17 Sep 1958), (daughter of James E. H. "Porter" Durham and Harriett Jane Durham).
Subj:
Photo #15Date:
1/21/01 9:32:36 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')File: EssieEtc.JPG (10934 bytes)DL Time (639996 bps): < 1 minuteRear,Left to right:Essie CuffBuddy LoatmanGene CuffSadie Durham Pierce (Jun 1903 - Apr 1924),daughter of James E. H. "Porter" Durham and Harriett Jane Durham.Wife of Hartley Von Rupert Pierce, Sr.Front:Homer[John
's note: with the exception of Sadie, I don't know who any of these people are. I'm wondering if the Buddy Loatman might be Eli "Buddie" Loatman, Jr, son of Eli Sr. and Annie Concealler, but this is just a guess]. [Debbie: do you know how these folks connect with your Durhams?]
Subj:
Photo #16Date:
1/21/01 9:37:20 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')File: TerrenceEtc.JPG (10566 bytes)DL Time (639996 bps): < 1 minuteLeft to right:Terrence C. Pierce, Sr., (b. 1904), husband of Pauline Cuff, and son of Harry S. Pierce and Ella Wilheminia Steward.Buddy LoatmanGene CuffSadie Durham Pierce (Jun 1903 - Apr 1924),daughter of James E. H. "Porter" Durham and Harriett Jane Durham.Wife of Hartley Von Rupert Pierce, Sr.[John
's note: Again, I don't know who the two middle people are. Buddy Loatman may possibly be Eli "Buddie" Loatman, Jr, son of Eli Sr. and Annie Concealler, but this is just a guess].
Subj:
[Mitsawokett] Extraneous messages in digestDate:
1/22/01 1:16:49 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
Mitsawokett@To:
Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
Hello, all.
On Sunday, January 21st, Terry Pierce wrote:>> Sorry, I ment to delete the digest>> Terry
Thanks, Terry.
I was just trying to figure out how I might politely suggest to the list members that they delete the original part of their e-mail when composing a reply.
Those of you who receive the digest-version know what I'm talking about (especially when you saw the size of this morning's digest).
Those who receive the individual-message version wouldn't notice it, because any extraneous or old/previous message material would appear at the bottom of the individual message, and can be easily ignored. But when the message posts to the digest, it carries all the old message data with it, unless deleted.
Just wanted to suggest that members either start with a fresh (empty) message when composing, and then add-in whatever previous material they wish to cite or refer to.... Or, if you prefer to click on "reply" to compose your message, make sure you're not including unnecessary previous messages (or entire digests).
Sorry, I don't mean to sound whiney--just a helpful suggestion.
:-)
Thanks!!
Jo
Subj:
RE: Miller dataDate:
1/23/01 12:29:26 AM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
JonMiller1@ ('JonMiller1@')CC:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Jon.
How have you been?
I saw your message to the Mitsawokett group dated January 14th mentioning that there was a Word document attached, and then I saw Betty & Ray's reply (to the list) also dated January 14th, mentioning how lists such as these cannot receive attachments. I then saw your reply (also to the list) dated later on January 14th, which said, "
Hi, Sorry about that, but hopefully you have it by now." But I never saw anything else after that, either to the list or directly to myself. I assumed you had sent it directly to Betty & Ray.
Also, even though you had mentioned "corrects and adds information to the data base that I believe John
Carter has online," I assumed you had mixed up Betty & Ray's website (Mitsawokett) with being my data. Whereas it's true that I supplied Betty & Ray with a lot of material, including a GEDCOM, back in the early days of the Mitsawokett website development, the last couple of years or more of information has been collected there from a variety of sources. I do help out now & then, but since some of the Family Reports have my name predominantly listed, I think people sometimes confuse the website as being "John
Carter's site," or "John
Carter's data."
It was for this reason, along with being deeply behind in a lot of my genealogy work (I currently have 47 items in my Inbox awaiting responses or other action), that I didn't respond to your initial posting. I apologize. I should have been more attentive to what you were sharing. I'd just assumed that you had already passed the relevant data along to Betty & Ray. However, that's not to say that I don't need to update my own data on my own website as well, if it indeed contains any of the same errors as whatever was noted in your document.
Please send me the info, and I will examine it to see what needs to be corrected in my data
(Betty & Ray--Did you receive Jon's document?).
Thanks!
Take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
JonMiller1@ [SMTP:JonMiller1@]Sent:
Monday, January 22, 2001 9:43 AMTo:
John
C. CarterCc:
AquaBetty@Subject:
Miller data
Hi
John
..Not to long ago, Betty Terry asked that I send her some material on my dad'sfamily. I did and I sent her material that expanded from and corrected someof the data that you have on line for my mom, Sara (Sallie) Loatman - Miller. I also sent that material to you. I haven't received any confirmation fromeither Betty or yoursellf. Did you receive it? If not, I'll resend it.Best personal regards,Jon Miller
Subj:
[Mitsawokett] Re: Anna (RIDGWAY) DdrhamDate:
1/23/01 11:53:41 AM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
Mitsawokett@To:
Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
Hello, all.
On Monday, Jan 22nd, baileyj6@ wrote:>> Anna (RIDGWAY) durham>> b.c.1834, Del.>> d. 8 Sep 1882>> dau of William & Deby RIDGWAY of>> Huron Twp.,Wayne Co., Michigan
Then, also on Monday, Jan 22nd, Betty & Ray Terry wrote:>> This MAY be the same person, daughter of>> William & Deborah (Handsor) Ridgway>> as cited at>> .htm>> We do show, separately, William &>> Deby Ridgway as follows:>> < snip >>> The problem is to connect the two listings.>> We have not seen any>> documentation or family tradition to do so.
In my database, I do show the Ann Ridgway/Jack Durham (daughter of "William & Deby" above) as a daughter of William Ridgway and Deborah "Deby" Handsor Ridgway. I have the following references cited:Ann Ridgway/Jack m. Charles Henry "Henry" Durham on 15 Mar 1859.per:Message from Joseph Romeo, dated 7/11/99, contained in Mitsawokett digest #140, dated 7/12/99...referencing Wayne Co, MI death records from LDS film #1377694, book 5, p. 330. See also Joseph Romeo's message in Mitsawokett digest #116, dated 6/17/99. Also: Mitsawokett #120 from 6/21/99, and Mitsawokett #41 from
I also show Ann as b. ca. 1840, Sussex Co, DE.
died 08 Sep 1882, Huron, Wayne Co, MI- - - - -
(no time to review them now--off to work):
Hope this helps!
John
Subj:
Re: [Mitsawokett] Re: Anna (RIDGWAY) DdrhamDate:
1/23/01 10:55:05 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
AquaBettyTo:
Mitsawokett@It's not the best evidence. Reading over Joseph's messages (and his quotes from others) it seems the relationship depends on the census listing in Michigan and the census listing in an earlier Delaware being the same family. There are so many age and name discrepancies that questions will always exist if just the census is relied upon.It's a shame that so much of our lineages depend on oral testimony and e-mails rather than to documentary evidence to backup the census.---------------------B&R Terry
Subj:
eGroups now makes you register to Yahoo GroupsDate:
1/28/01 2:48:30 AM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Have you noticed that eGroups has now merged with Yahoo? (I guess this happened last August, as described below). Anyway, now when you try to go to the old eGroups "My Groups" page, it makes you re-register for Yahoo Groups.
Man, it's hard to keep up with all the changes in this electronic world!!
:-)
John
Subj:
Re: eGroups now makes you register to Yahoo GroupsDate:
1/29/01 4:07:05 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
AquaBettyTo:
spiff@In a message dated 1/28/01 2:48:30 AM !!!First Boot!!!, spiff@ writes:>Yes, we ran into that the day before your e-mail. In addition, we are having problems uploading to the server which holds the Mitsawokett files. We made the Yahoo change to the Main Menu but only part of the file will upload before the connection is broker. You can see the result when you scroll down the Main Menu. It abruptly terminates.We will respond to your messages when we get this fixed.
Subj:
FW: Molecular Genealogy ProjectDate:
2/10/01 2:31:54 AM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
deborahpunger@ ('Unger, Debbie')
Hi.
I finally heard back from the BYU group this evening. I had dropped them a reminder message last Friday. They've probably been swamped with numerous similar special requests.
I'm very much looking forward to this! (Now I just have to figure out how to send him pedigree charts through e-mail!)
John
P.S.
Debbie and I are heading over to the local site tomorrow morning, for the standard DNA sampling.
-----Original Message-----
From:
Joel E. Myres [SMTP:joel_myres@byu.edu]Sent:
Friday, February 09, 2001 8:18 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Molecular Genealogy ProjectJohn
,Thanks for your interest in the Molecular Genealogy program. The situationyou outline is not unlike several we have worked on or working on. In orderfor us to process the request you would need to provide a comprehensivepedigree of all the possible relationships you can document. We will reviewthis to determine those people that will need to participate to answer yourquestion. You can send the info to:Joel MyresMolecular Genealogy Special Cases775 WIDBBYUProvo UT 84602If you have any questions you can contact me,Joel--Research AssociateMolecular GenealogyDepartment of Microbiology775 WIDBBrigham Young UniversityProvo UT 84602phone: (801)378-1245fax: (801)378-9197
Subj:
[Mitsawokett] RE: Harriett??? Deborah??? Cork??? Hughes??? Date:
1/27/01From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter) To:
Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')On January 23rd, Betty & Ray Terry wrote... >> We had a problem also with Harriet Cork marrying Jeremiah Ridgeway. Can anyone contribute to our better understanding of the problems Denise mentions? ...in response to an email from Denise Gibbs which stated:>> I am a new member to the group. My name is Denise Gibbs and my grandmother and grandfather is Bessie Mosley and Earl J. Ridgeway (1911-1929). My mother is Lola Gibbs & her brother is Lovey Ridgeway. I have some questions and comments about Jeremiah Ridgeway, my great-great-grandfather.>>>> In the descendents of Perry (Peregrine) Cork ( -1833) of Duck Creek, there is a message from "Senamoon" which states that Harriet Cork married Jeremiah Ridgeway, my great-great-grandfather. I was told that he married Deborah Cork Hughes. If he didn't marry her, she was the mother of my great-grandfather, Earl J. Ridgeway. Does anyone have any info on this?>>>> My grandfather, Earl (Squirrel) Ridgeway (who married Bessie Mosley) has half-brothers and sisters through his mother's (Sarah V. Carter) first marriage to Return John
son. His half brothers and sisters are Wileth (Bill), Franklin John
son, Isaiah John
son, Ester John
son and Anna John
son.The Harriett/Deborah Cork/Hughes subject has come up before, and every time it succeeds in frying my brain! :-) Below is a chain where this was discussed off-list previously. Perhaps someone with more remaining brain cells than I can figure it out.I hope it's not too confusing to post an e-mail chain in the middle of this list, for those who are receiving the digest version. I have placed the individuals in chronological order, starting with the earliest. I'll place a double-line ===== at the bottom of the last-pasted email, to signify the end of the chain. ---
JCC
-----Original Message-----
From:
Charles Seeney [SMTP:seen1@worldnet.] Sent:
Friday, August 06, 1999 6:13 AMTo:
spiff@ Subject:
Re: My Ridgeway Cousins
Hi
John
................I was looking at the work you did for the Mitsawokett site. I showed the Ridgeway data to my cousin who is visiting us.The information you have is correct. This is something that occurred to me that you might not have. My cousin is William Seeney, son of Richard Seeney, my father's brother. His mother is Sarah (Archer) Seeney, daughter of Lola (Ridgeway) Archer. The Ridgeway's and Seeney's seem to cross many times.Bill didn't recongize names, but he's going to ask his mother. ---- Chuck (OK) Seeney
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@] Sent:
Sunday, August 08, 1999 9:49 PMTo:
'Charles Seeney' Subject:
RE: My Ridgeway Cousins
Hi, Chuck.
Thanks for the message and the attachment. I was planning to respond to your message from Friday, but hadn't gotten a chance yet. I've attached a file of the same family, from the info that I had. As you can see, some of our information differs.
A few notable examples:1. You have Jeremiah Ridgeway as born ca. 1840, and as married to DEBORAH Hughes. I had him as born ca. 1865, and as married to HARRIETT Hughes, daughter of Deborah Cork Hughes (and John
Hughes).< snip >Actually, I'd never done too much work on this branch of the family, so it's not surprising that I have so little. Most of the information I have came from Rose Marie Ridgeway, or Lorraine John
son Gregg. They are the ones who gave me the dates on Jeremiah and Harriett. Where did you obtain your date info?I do have information regarding the parents, etc of Harriett Hughes, if you'd like that. But, first of all, I guess we need to determine if her name was really Harriett, or Deborah.... I just checked my records, and this info on the Hughes' was given to me by Lorraine John
son Gregg from the Kent County census:1880 Census KCHughes John
, age 48, farmer " Deborah, age 42, wife nee Cork Hester, age 21 dau Benjamin, age 19, son ( m Joeanne Gould Andrew, age 17, son ( m Mary Emma Pierce John
, age 13, son ( m Mary Coombs Harriet, age 11 dau ( m [Jeremiah] Ridgway Edward, age 7, son ( m Letishia (Lettie) John
son Perry, age 4, son ( m Sallie Jackson James age 1, son ( m Harriet Durham, dau of
Caroline Carney, Daniel DurhamPerhaps somehow your source got Harriett's mother's name Deborah substituted for Harriett's as the wife of Jeremiah?< snip >Anyway, I'd be interested to hear your comments.
Thanks!!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Dr. m. v. Perry [SMTP:DRMVP@] Sent:
Wednesday, March 15, 2000 3:42 PMTo:
Chuck Seeney Cc:
spiff@; AquaBetty@ Subject:
some more
Hi
Chuck-- I heard from Aunt Sarah yesterday. I had sent her a copy of the descendancy report that AquaBetty sent me. Aunt Sarah says this; "My grandmother on Mom's (Lola Ridgeway) side was named Deborah not Harriet. Harriet was my father's mother. And my father was never called 'Connie', just your (my) Dad." As I gather more I'll send more...
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@] Sent:
Tuesday, March 14, 2000 8:18 PMTo:
'DRMVP@' Cc:
'Ridgeway, Rose Marie'; 'Gregg, Lorraine'; 'Seeney, Chuck'; 'Terry, Betty & Ray'Subject:
RE: Harriett Hughes vs. Deborah Hughes
Hi, Ginnie.
Below is the e-mail chain I mentioned, where Chuck (and Bill) and I had previously discussed whether Lola Ridgeway Archer's mother was HARRIETT Hughes Ridgeway or DEBORAH Hughes Ridgeway. Your info and Chuck's info has come from the same place: Bill's mother, Sarah Archer Seeney, daughter of Lola (1883-1970) and Isaac Claiborne Archer.(To read the messages in sequence, start at the bottom and read "upward").I am cc'ing a couple of other cousins, from whom the HARRIETT reference came from.Lorraine and/or Rose: Can you check your notes for the 1880 census to verify if it was HARRIETT or DEBORAH who was the 11-year-old daughter in the household? Or do you have any other sources to clarify? This is also the mother of Earl Jeremiah Ridgeway, Sr (1885-1941), husband of Sarah Virginia Carter.I had thought at first that Bill's (and Ginnie's) source had gotten mixed-up, and switched Lola's mother's name (HARRIETT) with Lola's Grandmother's name (DEBORAH), because Lola's maternal grandmother was Deborah Cork Hughes, wife of Perry Hughes. But I guess Sarah could be expected to be certain of her own grandmother's name, so it sounds like we might have it wrong.Lorraine: The segment from you imbedded in the message just below, was in a message you sent to me on October 22, 1998. On Oct 25, 1998, you also wrote the following:>> Harriet Hughes m Earl Ridgeway (I'm not clear on this,>> my notes, one place I have Earl, another Jeremiah)>> Probably you should go with what Rose has.>> (Jeremiah) I can't find anything else w/Earl on it as>> the husband of Harriet Hughes.Anything you have that might help clear up with mystery would be appreciated! Thanks, everyone, for your help!
John
Subj:
[Mitsawokett] RE: Just wondering. . .Date:
1/27/01 4:40:13 AM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
Mitsawokett@To:
Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
Hi, Betty & Ray and everyone.
Three questions, regarding material you posted on 22 Jan 2001---- - - - - - - - - -1. First Question:
On Jan 22nd, you wrote (in response to baileyj6@):>> This is what we have:>> 1. Robert1 MILLER, born 1821; died 1912>> in Michigan He married Mary Ann DEAN,>> born 1825; died 1880 in Michigan, daughter>> of James DEAN and Dena (---).
However, in your message of September 5th, 1999, you wrote:>> We have this Mary Dean being the daughter of>> Selah Okie. You recall Chuck Martin's discovery>> in the legislative acts of Delaware? She was the>> bastard child (Cheswold redux!) along with other>> sibs and half-sibs.>> [from Chuck]:>> "...Whereas it has been represented to this>> General Assembly, that a certain Jesse Dean>> mulatto late of Kent County and State of Delaware>> now deceased the illegitimate son of one Selah>> Okie (Okey, Oakley) late of Kent County now>> deceased also having been born out of wedlock>> and the illegitimate brother of the half blood of>> the said Thomas S. Butcher, Rebecca (Dean)>> Durham (wife of Daniel Durham), Mary Dean,>> John
Dean and Phebe Dean the said Thomas>> S. Butcher, Rebecca Durham, Mary Dean and>> John
Dean being the illegitimate children of the>> said Selah Okie born of the said Selah Okie out>> of wedlock; and that the said Jesse Dean in his>> lifetime purchased ...fifty acres ....>> (my embelishments)>> "Following the paper trail, by Jan 1846 Phebe>> Dean had married Thomas Benson, Mary Dean>> had married Robert Miller and John
Dean was>> unmarried."
Was Mary the daughter of James & Dena Dean? Or the daughter of Selah Okie?
[
P.S.
I see now that you addressed this further in your message of January 24th. I'm still trying to get caught up. But, I had assumed that Selah Okie was female. Now, I'm totally confused....]- - - - - - - - - -2. Second Question:
Then, also on Jan 22nd, 2001, you wrote (in response to baileyj6@):>> Rachel A.3 HUGHES (Maria2 Miller, Debrix1),>> born Aug 1829 in Delaware; died 1907;>> buried in Old Baptist Cemetery, Marlton,>> Burlington, New Jersey. She married Henry>> DURHAM, born 11 Jul 1814 of Kent County,>> Delaware
You posted a message to this list on 07 Aug 1999, which contained notes from Ed Bush and Joseph Romeo, with conflicting birthdates noted for Henry, in all or part because of there being two separate headstones for him in two separate cemeteries.
This is the segment from Ed Bush:>>
Subj: [Mitsawokett] HENRY & RACHEL DURHAM>> Date: 99-03-14>> From: Bushes@>> (Edward B. Bush)>> I checked my records of the Old Baptist>> Cemetrery, Marlton, Burlington Co.,NJ. HENRY>> DURHAM, b. July 11, 1814, d. February 26, 1882,>> and his wife, RACHEL HUGHES DURHAM,>> b. 1828, d. 1907, are buried there.
This is the segment from Joseph Romeo:>>
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: HENRY &>> RACHEL DURHAM>> Date: 99-03-15 11:32:36 EST>> From: RomeoJA@>> In checking my notes, I find that there is also>> a monument to Henry Durham in the cemetery>> attached to Immanuel Union United Methodist>> Church near Cheswold, Del. It reads: Our>> Father / in memory of / Henry Durham / born>> July 11th, 1815 / died February 26, 1882 />> aged 66 years / Silent grave to thee I trust />> This precious part of worthy dust / Keep it>> safe, sacred tomb / Untill a wife shall ask for room.
Then, you'd also wrote:>> In same plot at Manship: Henry Durham>> 11 Jul 1815 - 26 Feb 1882 aged 66 yrs Our Father">> and "Maggie Durham died 23 Jan 1882 6 years>> 3 mo 5 dy dau of Jeremiah & Margaret Ann"
Was anyone ever able to confirm whether either of the birthdates (11 Jul 1814 or 11 Jul 1815) was an error in transcribing? Or does each stone indeed have a different year?- - - - - - - - - -3. Third Question:
Then, also in the same message on January 22nd, 2001, you wrote:>> Children of John
HUGHES and>> Deborah CORK were as follows:>> 1221 Hester4 HUGHES, born abt 1859.>> 1222 Benjamin4 HUGHES, born abt 1861.>> 1223 Andrew4 HUGHES, born abt 1863.>> 1224 John
4 HUGHES, born abt 1867.>> 1225 Perry C.4 HUGHES, born 1875;>> died 1955; buried in Fork Branch Cemetery,>> Dover, Kent, Delaware.>> 1226 James4 HUGHES, born abt 1879.>> 1227 Edward4 HUGHES, born 26 Jan 1870;>> died 5 Feb 1962; buried in Fork Branch>> Cemetery, Dover, Kent, Delaware.
My list of the children matches this one for the first four children, then differs slightly. This is what I have:Hester, b. ca. 1859Benjamin, b. ca. 1861Andrew, b ca. 1863John
, b. ca. 1867Harriett, b. ca. 1869Edward, b. ca. 1873Perry E. (not C.), b. Oct 1875James, b. ca. 1879
Sources:
A. Message from Lorraine John
son Gregg, dated 22 Oct 1998, with the following from the 1880 Kent County, DE census:>> 1880 Census KC>> Hughes John
, age 48, farmer>> " Deborah, age 42, wife>> Hester, age 21 dau>> Benjamin, age 19, son>> Andrew, age 17, son>> John
, age 13, son>> Harriet, age 11 dau>> Edward, age 7, son>> Perry, age 4, son>> James age 1, son
B. Message from Lorraine John
son Gregg, dated 24 Oct 1998, with the following from the 1900 census:>> 1900 census De>> Perry E Hughes b Oct 1875, age 24,>> m 4 years head All b in De>> Sarah " b Sept 1878 , age 22, ">> wife , mother of 1 , 1 living>> Lydia A " b July 1897 age 2 , dau
I don't really have a specific question here--just wanted to share these discrepancies.
Anyway, that's all.
Just wanted to run these by you.
Thanks!
Subj:
[Mitsawokett] RE: Just wondering. . . Date:
1/27/01 4:40:13 AM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter) To:
Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
Hi, Betty & Ray and everyone.
Three questions, regarding material you posted on 22 Jan 2001---1. First Question: On Jan 22nd, you wrote (in response to baileyj6@):>> This is what we have: 1. Robert1 MILLER, born 1821; died 1912 in Michigan He married Mary Ann DEAN, born 1825; died 1880 in Michigan, daughter of James DEAN and Dena (---).However, in your message of September 5th, 1999, you wrote:>> We have this Mary Dean being the daughter of Selah Okie. You recall Chuck Martin's discovery>> in the legislative acts of Delaware? She was the bastard child (Cheswold redux!) along with other>> sibs and half-sibs. >> [from Chuck]: "...Whereas it has been represented to this General Assembly, that a certain Jesse Dean mulatto late of Kent County and State of Delaware now deceased the illegitimate son of one Selah Okie (Okey, Oakley) late of Kent County now deceased also having been born out of wedlock and the illegitimate brother of the half blood of the said Thomas S. Butcher, Rebecca (Dean) Durham (wife of Daniel Durham), Mary Dean, John Dean and Phebe Dean the said Thomas S. Butcher, Rebecca Durham, Mary Dean and John
Dean being the illegitimate children of the said Selah Okie born of the said Selah Okie out of wedlock; and that the said Jesse Dean in his lifetime purchased ...fifty acres .... (my embelishments) "Following the paper trail, by Jan 1846 Phebe Dean had married Thomas Benson, Mary Dean had married Robert Miller and John
Dean was unmarried."Was Mary the daughter of James & Dena Dean? Or the daughter of Selah Okie?[
P.S.
I see now that you addressed this further in your message of January 24th. I'm still trying to get caught up. But, I had assumed that Selah Okie was female. Now, I'm totally confused....]2. Second Question: Then, also on Jan 22nd, 2001, you wrote (in response to baileyj6@):>> Rachel A.3 HUGHES (Maria2 Miller, Debrix1), born Aug 1829 in Delaware; died 1907; buried in Old Baptist Cemetery, Marlton, Burlington, New Jersey. She married Henry DURHAM, born 11 Jul 1814 of Kent County, DelawareYou posted a message to this list on 07 Aug 1999, which contained notes from Ed Bush and Joseph Romeo, with conflicting birthdates noted for Henry, in all or part because of there being two separate headstones for him in two separate cemeteries.This is the segment from Ed Bush:>>
Subj: [Mitsawokett] HENRY & RACHEL DURHAM Date: 99-03-14>> From: Bushes@ (Edward B. Bush) I checked my records of the Old Baptist Cemetrery, Marlton, Burlington Co.,NJ. HENRY DURHAM, b. July 11, 1814, d. February 26, 1882, and his wife, RACHEL HUGHES DURHAM, b. 1828, d. 1907, are buried there.This is the segment from Joseph Romeo:>>
Subj: [Mitsawokett] Re: HENRY & RACHEL DURHAM Date: 99-03-15 11:32:36 EST>> From: RomeoJA@ >> In checking my notes, I find that there is also a monument to Henry Durham in the cemetery attached to Immanuel Union United Methodist Church near Cheswold, Del. It reads: Our Father / in memory of / Henry Durham / born July 11th, 1815 / died February 26, 1882 / aged 66 years / Silent grave to thee I trust / This precious part of worthy dust / Keep it safe, sacred tomb / Untill a wife shall ask for room.Then, you'd also wrote:>> In same plot at Manship: Henry Durham 11 Jul 1815 - 26 Feb 1882 aged 66 yrs Our Father" and "Maggie Durham died 23 Jan 1882 6 years 3 mo 5 dy dau of Jeremiah & Margaret Ann" Was anyone ever able to confirm whether either of the birthdates (11 Jul 1814 or 11 Jul 1815) was an error in transcribing? Or does each stone indeed have a different year?3. Third Question:
Then, also in the same message on January 22nd, 2001, you wrote:>> Children of John
HUGHES and Deborah CORK were as follows: >> 1221 Hester4 HUGHES, born abt 1859.>> 1222 Benjamin4 HUGHES, born abt 1861.>> 1223 Andrew4 HUGHES, born abt 1863.>> 1224 John
4 HUGHES, born abt 1867.>> 1225 Perry C.4 HUGHES, born 1875; died 1955; buried in Fork Branch Cemetery, Dover, Kent, Delaware.>> 1226 James4 HUGHES, born abt 1879.>> 1227 Edward4 HUGHES, born 26 Jan 1870; died 5 Feb 1962; buried in Fork Branch Cemetery, Dover, Kent, Delaware.My list of the children matches this one for the first four children, then differs slightly. This is what I have:Hester, b. ca. 1859Benjamin, b. ca. 1861Andrew, b ca. 1863John
, b. ca. 1867Harriett, b. ca. 1869Edward, b. ca. 1873Perry E. (not C.), b. Oct 1875James, b. ca. 1879
Sources:A. Message from Lorraine John
son Gregg, dated 22 Oct 1998, with the following from the 1880 Kent County, DE census:>> 1880 Census KC>> Hughes John
, age 48, farmer>> " Deborah, age 42, wife>> Hester, age 21 dau>> Benjamin, age 19, son>> Andrew, age 17, son>> John
, age 13, son>> Harriet, age 11 dau>> Edward, age 7, son>> Perry, age 4, son>> James age 1, sonB. Message from Lorraine John
son Gregg, dated 24 Oct 1998, with the following from the 1900 census:>> 1900 census De>> Perry E Hughes b Oct 1875, age 24,>> m 4 years head All b in De>> Sarah " b Sept 1878 , age 22, ">> wife , mother of 1 , 1 living>> Lydia A " b July 1897 age 2 , dauI don't really have a specific question here--just wanted to share these discrepancies.
Anyway, that's all.
Just wanted to run these by you.
Thanks!
John
Subj:
P.S.
RE: MorgansDate:
1/28/01 7:18:24 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
By the way,
I have sent an inquiry to a male Morgan descendant who's descended from William Morgan (b. ca. 1807) and explained the DNA / Molecular Genealogy project to him. I will let you know if he volunteers to be tested.
Thanks!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Sunday, January 28, 2001 2:17 PMTo:
'Mitsawokett List'Subject:
RE: Morgans
Hello, all.
On Tuesday, Jan 23rd, Betty & Ray Terry wrote the following:>> Matt Sammons lent us his book, "Our>> Family History." In it he has penned the>> following regarding Catharine Morgan>> (1833-1894) who married Robert Dean in>> 1851>> (notes: the stone at Manship is>> worn & the death date can be read as>> 1891 or 1894;>> her name is spelled Catharine in the>> legal documents at Delaware Public>> Archives and on her headstone) -->> "Catherine Morgan (Dean) Carney>> (mother of Robert B. Dean Jr.) born>> 12/27/1833 Kent County, Dela., died>> May 23, 1891. Father John
Morgan>> Mother Mary Morgan"
Just a note regarding Catherine's year of death: I have both visited the grave site, as well as have a photograph of Catherine's headstone, and whereas I agree the number is hard to read, it is my opinion that the year of death is 1894. Part of the 4 is very thin, and it can give the appearance of being a 1.
Also, her death certificate clearly indicates "May 23rd, 1894."
Included in the same message from Betty & Ray was this part:>> Matt also mentions the ancestry of Mary>> Dean who married Rueben Seeney -->> "Rueben married Mary Dean, Ervin>> Dean's sister -- Annie Dean (mother) -->> mother & father John
& Mary Morgan">> (No source mentioned). So Annie>> appears to be the sister of Catharine>> Morgan Dean Carney. This needs>> follow-up at the Archives, as do the>> records for all the descendants of>> the purported Morgan brothers, John
,>> William & James. Ervin C. Dean>> (1874-1944) married Anna Morgan>> (1878-1929) daughter of John
H.>> Morgan & Mary Ann Coker.
I think you have TWO different John
& Mary Morgans mixed up here. Near the bottom of the segment above, you mention that Anna Morgan was the daughter of John
H. Morgan and Mary Ann Coker. If this is true, then she CANNOT "be the sister of Catharine Morgan Dean Carney" as stated in the middle of the segment. The John
H. Morgan who married Mary Ann Coker was b. 17 Feb 1840 (Mary Ann Coker was b. 09 Sep 1844). However, the John
Morgan who was Catherine Morgan Dean Carney's father was b. ca. 1816, and his wife Mary _____ was b. ca. 1818.
Therefore, Anna Morgan Dean was a niece of Moses Coker, who was Catherine Morgan Dean Carney's son-in-law. (i.e., a two-generation separation). Until we can connect William Morgan (b. ca. 1807) with John
Morgan (b. ca. 1816), there is no Morgan connection between Anna Morgan Dean and Catherine Morgan Dean Carney.
Seems like this confusion has come up before, but I just ran a search through my e-mail programs and cannot find the discussion.
Question:
By the way, who were the parents of Ervin C. Dean (and Mary Dean Seeney)? I could not find him in the index of the Mitsawokett report of James Dean's descendants.
Regarding this part (which pertained to your Weslager extract):>> Who is Annie Mosley referring to? -->> "She said that her father and his father>> were both born in the Cheswold environs.">> Annie's father or Catharine's father?
My presumption would be that Annie was referring to her own father, Robert Dean, and his father, Jesse. But this is just my interpretation. I see how you mean it could be taken either way.
Thanks!
John
Subj:
Small linking errorDate:
2/9/01 4:05:40 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')CC:
Nanticoke9@ ('Nanticoke9@')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
I've noticed that when you go to the Wingate Mosley family pages, and click on "Descendants," it takes you to the 2nd generation instead of the first generation. The only way to get to the first generation is to click on "Descendants" to the 2nd generation, and then click on the "(Wingate)" in parentheses after Purnell's name.
Just an FYI.
Thanks,
John
Subj:
RE: Wingate Mosely Date:
2/9/01 4:16:13 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter) To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')CC:
Nanticoke9@ ('Nanticoke9@')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
In the message attached below from 03 Nov 1998, as well as in a Word document from you on 28 Dec 1997, you list Wingate Mosley's birthplace as Kent County, DE.But, currently in the Mitsawokett website, you have him listed as born in Indian River, Sussex County, with the following notes:>> 5. Wingate MOSLEY was born about 1820. It has been speculated that the Indian-remnant,>> mixed-blood Mosley family originated in Sussex County, Delaware. No record has been found of Wingate's birth, marriage or death. His name appears in the death record of his son, Charles Henry Mosley.Do you know if there is any new evidence pertaining to this? Celeste is pondering the possibility that the Elizabeth John
son who married Wingate's son Purnell may be the daughter of Whittington John
son and Anne Rust Norwood-John
son of Sussex County. Here is an excerpt from her message:>> I am theorizing that the Eliza who married Purnell P. Mosley could be the daughter of>> Whittington John
son and Anne Rust Norwood-John
son. Their daughter was born in 1852. Looking at the birth year of Whittington's Eliza and Purnell's oldest children (1872), it could very well be that>> Purnell's Eliza is Whittington's daughter Eliza. Meaning she would have been 19 or 20 when>> she began having children; her age appears correct to be the mother of Purnell's children.>> Is it known whether or not Purnell or his father was from Sussex County? I have not>> successfully found who Whittington's daughter Eliza married; perhaps I'm trying to force a fit>> out of frustration.
Thanks very much for any help or suggestions. John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@] Sent:
Tuesday, November 03, 1998 2:04 To:
spiff@ Subject:
Re: Wingate Mosely
Hi
John
, The index to the on-line Descendants of Wingate Mosley and his wife Nancycontains the following info:Wingate b.1820 - , Kent, DelawareWingate b.1858 - , DelawareWingate Burton b.1882 - , DelawareWingate and Nancy had sons Wingate and Purnell. Purnell had son Wingate B. who married Clara Jackson.Betty
Subj:
[Mitsawokett] RE: Mosley and John
son connectionsDate:
2/8/01 12:04:53 PM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
Mitsawokett@To:
Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')
Hello.
On February 7th, Celeste wrote:>> Purnell P. Mosley and Eliza Jane John
son>> Any speculation as to whom Eliza's parents>> could be?>> John
M. Mosley and Elizabeth J. John
son>> Elizabeth's parents are identified as>> Burton John
son and Sally Mosley.>> Any speculation as to whom Burton's>> parents are? Who are Sally's parents?>>>> Celeste
Hi, Celeste. It seems there are two different Elizabeth J. John
sons being discussed here--one married to Purnell P. Mosley, and one married to John
M. Mosley. As for Burton John
son, I show him as a son of Robert John
son and ______ John
son, per Weslager's tape that he made from his notes during the "Delaware's Forgotten Folk" research period. I have no info on the parents of Sally Mosley, nor on the parents of the Elizabeth J. John
son who married Purnell P. Mosley.
I do show that the Elizabeth who married Purnell was born March 1848, and the Elizabeth who married John
was born between 1832-42.
Hope this helps.
Thanks,
John
John
C. Carter
Subj:
Mitsawokett omission?Date:
2/26/01 11:54:01 AM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Not sure if I'm missing something, but it appears the report for the descendants of John
Morgan is no longer showing on Mitsawokett: History Reports
Did it accidentally get deleted?
Also, the link above doesn't seem to be pasting correctly into this email. I think it's because there's a space between "Family" and "History" and "Reports." I tried to bridge the gap, but it won't work).
Thanks,
John
Subj:
RE: Library of CongressDate:
3/2/01 4:24:57 AM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)To:
AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')Was thinking about this again, and was wondering if you have any trips to the Library of Congress planned in the near future? I wish I lived up in that area....
I went by my local LDS/Mormon family history center this evening to see if they might be able to acquire a copy on microfilm, but they didn't seem to think so. They did suggest I call back on Monday morning to ask their director, but it didn't sound promising. I'm not sure how they could achieve it, if inter-library loan couldn't do it.... Not sure if they would have something of this nature in their own collection.Just thought I'd ask for you to keep me in mind, if you ever head down that way....
Thanks!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Wednesday, October 11, 2000 1:39 AMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Library of CongressWe'll see what we can find. This week, however, we will be in Indianaattending Betty's uncle Henry Davis' funeral. Will get back to you.B&R Terry
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Tuesday, October 10, 2000 10:10 PMTo:
'AquaBetty@'Subject:
RE: Library of Congress
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Hmm, that's what my library speculated as well (that the Library of Congress didn't loan materials out). But they must have in the past, because the item I'm trying to obtain is a "Volume 2," and I already have a copy of "Volume 1" which I got a few years ago. And although I can't clearly remember the particulars of when I ordered it, I know I got it through inter-library loan, and it is stamped "Library of Congress, U.S.A., Washington" on the first page of the copies. And I just looked on page 2 of the Vol. 1 copies, and it has an image of a card reading "microfilmed 1972, Library of Congress photoduplication service."
Anyway, this is the title of Volume 1:"Journal of Daniel Coker, a Descendant of Africa, From the Time of Leaving New York, in the Ship Elizabeth, Capt. Sebor, on a Voyage for Sherbro, in Africa, in Company with Three Agents, and About Ninety Persons of Colour." (whew!) Published 1820.
This is from the period of when the Maryland Colonial Society was repatriating African-Americans back to Africa, to the colony of Liberia.
In all references to Rev. Coker's Journal that I've ever seen, the only published version ever discussed was Volume 1. Mention was made that there had been a Volume 2 at one time, but one source described it as having been "sent to the American Colonization Society, but by 1947 it was unable to be located in the society's archives." My impression was that Volume 2 had been lost forever.
However, back in June I corresponded with a woman who was a history professor at Hiram College in Ohio, who was doing research on Rev. Coker. She wrote the following:>> I do have Reverend Coker's journal part 1, and>> I found part 2 of the journal in the Peter Force>> Collection, Library of Congress Manuscripts>> Division. It is on microfilm and is hand-written.
Eagerly, I wrote back to her for more details on the "newly-discovered" Volume 2. At first I received no reply, but finally I heard back and she apologized that she'd been under a deadline for a project. She stated that her copy was extremely difficult to read, but that she would go to a photocopy place to see how it would come out (but her suspicions were that it would be too difficult to read). I thanked her and offered to pay for the copies, and said that if they were too illegible I would try to get a copy through inter-library loan. I never heard back from her, and have been trying to get a copy through inter-library loan ever since. I recently re-wrote back to her, but no response.
I don't have any type of an ID for the "book" / microfilm, and therefore don't have anything else to offer in terms of seeking it out, other than it being Vol. 2 of the manuscript listed above, and it being in the Peter Force Collection in the Manuscripts Division (and being handwritten). (Vol. 1 was type-printed).
I don't know for sure, but my thoughts are that such a rare item would not be available through the Mormons, due in part to it not actually being a book. Do you think I should still pursue this avenue?
Thanks again for any suggestions.
Sincerely,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Monday, October 09, 2000 11:09 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Library of CongressIn a message dated 10/09/2000 10:35:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,spiff@ writes:> I found part 2 of the journal in the Peter Force>> Collection, Library of Congress Manuscripts>> Division. It is on microfilm and is hand-written.
Eagerly, I wrote back to her for more details on the "newly-discovered" Volume 2. At first I received no reply, but finally I heard back and she apologized that she'd been under a deadline for a project. She stated that her copy was extremely difficult to read, but that she would go to a photocopy place to see how it would come out (but her suspicions were that it would be too difficult to read). I thanked her and offered to pay for the copies, and said that if they were too illegible I would try to get a copy through inter-library loan. I never heard back from her, and have been trying to get a copy through inter-library loan ever since. I recently re-wrote back to her, but no response.
I don't have any type of an ID for the "book" / microfilm, and therefore don't have anything else to offer in terms of seeking it out, other than it being Vol. 2 of the manuscript listed above, and it being in the Peter Force Collection in the Manuscripts Division (and being handwritten). (Vol. 1 was type-printed).
I don't know for sure, but my thoughts are that such a rare item would not be available through the Mormons, due in part to it not actually being a book. Do you think I should still pursue this avenue?
Thanks again for any suggestions.
Sincerely,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Monday, October 09, 2000 11:09 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Library of CongressIn a message dated 10/09/2000 10:35:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,spiff@ writes:> Eliza Jane Ridgeway. She also said>> Aunt Hester who was Eliza Jane's>> sister had married Joseph Morris.>> If this is true, I believe this>> would be Letishia Ridgeway.
What evidence is there that "Aunt Hester" and "Letishia" are the same person? I show Tilghman & Sina's daughter Leticia (Letishia) Ridgeway as married to Caleb Owens, with at least two children: Timothy Owens and Sara Edith Owens. This is in part per an email from Lorraine John
son Gregg, dated 12 Apr 1998:>> Timothy Owens, son of Caleb and>> Letishia Ridgway Owens ,>> this Letishia was the dau of Tillman>> and Sinia Mosley Ridgway.>> I can't confirm that this is the same>> Timothy that m Prudence Sammons.
...and in part per a conversation with Mary Agnes Morris Cuyjet on 01 Aug 1991, from which I noted the following:
>> Sara Edith Owens married Oscar Burton Morris (Mary Agnes' parents)
>> Sara's brother Timothy Owens married ______ Sammons
These connections need to be further documented, to establish that this is one-and-the-same Timothy Owens.
Getting back to Leticia / Letishia, or course if she is the same person as "Aunt Hester," she could have had TWO husbands, Joseph Morris and Caleb Owens.
As for Tilghman (1819 - 1894), I have always wondered what the connection is between his family and that of William Ridgeway / Ridgway / Regware (1804 - 1867). In the Civil War pension records for Sarah Ridgway (daughter of Tilghman), who was the widow of both Alfred Wilbank Ridgeway (son of William) and Daniel Coker (who were BOTH Civil War veterans), it states that Sarah and Alfred were "second cousins" prior to their marriage. William's family came from Sussex.
That's all for now.
Thanks,
John
Subj:
RE: Library of CongressDate:
3/6/01 12:56:00 AM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
AquaBetty@ ('AquaBetty@')
Thanks!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
AquaBetty@ [SMTP:AquaBetty@]Sent:
Monday, March 05, 2001 12:54 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Library of CongressIn a message dated 3/2/01 4:24:57 AM !!!First Boot!!!, spiff@ writes:>Well, we've been procrastinating. After having commuted to DC for 31 years I've been not been overthrilled at the prospect of fighting that gig another time. But will do so shortly after putting together a short list of stuff to do. Hang in!Ray
Subj:
RE: Dean & HardcastleDate:
3/7/01 2:23:23 AM !!!First Boot!!!From:
spiff@ (John
C. Carter)Reply-to:
spiff@ (spiff@)To:
Wotjrncs@ ('Wotjrncs@')CC:
JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn'), AquaBetty@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray')
Hi, NC.
Thanks for the message. I'm sorry, but I don't think I'm going to be of much help.
My Deans were all from Kent County, DE, and even though that's just across the state line from Caroline County, MD, I don't really know of any Deans over there. This doesn't mean there's not a connection, however. I just don't know about any.
(I do have one possible connection to a Dean in Dorchester County, MD, but I know virtually nothing about her other than her name: Barsheba Dean Carty, b. prob. ca. 1770, d. bef. 1814, m. James McCarty/Carty on 17 Aug 1792 in Dorchester Co, MD).
There definitely were connections between Caroline County families and Kent County families, however. My McCarty/Carty/Carter and Coker lines both emigrated from Caroline Co, MD to Kent Co, DE.
If I come across anything on Caroline County Deans, I will let you know.
Good luck!
John
John
C. Carter
-C-Carter/Paternal surnames: Bailey, Carney, Carter/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston, Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor, Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Joy, Morgan, Morris, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Orem, Ridgeway, Wyatt
-----Original Message-----
From:
Wotjrncs@ [SMTP:Wotjrncs@]Sent:
Tuesday, March 06, 2001 4:29 PMTo:
SPIFF@Subject:
Dean & HardcastleMr. Carter I was interested in you site because I am doing my husbands familyand there are Deans in there that we can not figure how they really fit but they fitted well enough that they left a large bit of land to his family andwere called Uncle. These Deans are in Caroline Co.,MD. This just across the state line from Kent and Sussex Co. DE. I would appreciate any info orsuggestions. Oh! The Hardcastle name was not in the family but their land is(was) all around the Dean and Thomas land. Please respond. Thank you.NCThomasJohn
C. Carter11 Mar 2001Dolly" G.D. Ridgeway Pritchett Wright-Morris
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Are you familiar with a researcher / cousin named Dolly, aka "G.D. Ridgeway Pritchett Wright-Morris"? Her e-mail address is wolfwalkswithher@.
She has sent me a large amount of corrections for family info, but to be honest, she sent SO much at once that I find myself procrastinating going through it. I've had it sitting in my Inbox since the end of January / beginning of February.
Has she been in contact with you? I'm not sure if she is correcting the info on the Mitsawokett site, or the info on my own site (or both).
Just thought I would check with you.
Thanks,
John
John
C. CarterRidgeway, Rose MarieGregg, Lorraine; Terry, Betty & Ray3/11/01 5:20:53 AMRE: Walter Proctor/Alan Ridgeway, Sr.
Hi, Rose.
How have you been? Hope all is well with you and your family.
I had a quick question for you, regarding Walter Proctor Ridgeway, Sr. I have received a couple of messages from a fellow Mitsawokett recipient, named Dolly, aka G.D. Ridgeway Pritchett Wright-Morris, aka "Wolf Walks With Her." She tells me that her mother is a daughter of Walter Proctor Ridgeway, Sr., and her mother is still living (age 93, but she didn't give me her mother's name), and that her mother insists that Walter's middle name was Alan, not Proctor. She doesn't understand why everyone refers to him as Walter Proctor, and tells Dolly that she (mother) "should know her own father's name."
My notes don't show all my sources on this, but I do see that you have referred to him as Walter Proctor in the message below. Do you know of anything that substantiates his middle name as Proctor? Do you agree that it may indeed be Alan?
Thanks very much for any comments you can offer.
Take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Rose Marie Ridgeway [SMTP:rbright4@]Sent:
Thursday, October 01, 1998 6:30 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Mosely Madness
Hi
John
,< snip >Benjamin Ridgeway, Sr. son of: Walter Proctor Ridgeway - b. Sep 23 1867DE - d. ?and Rhoda E. Palmer, b. Dec 17, 1875. They had Benjamin, Walter, Jr.,Sadie, Elsie, Howard,Flossie (Elizabeth), Myrtle, Alberta, (I can't think of the others atthis time.------------------------------------------------------------------------Walter Proctor Ridgeway was the son of Alfred Ridgeway and Sarah CokerRidgway/Jack.-------------------------------------------------------------------------< snip >
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Will forward her e-mails right after this.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
r terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]Sent:
Sunday, March 11, 2001 11:34 AMTo:
spiff@Subject:
RE: Dolly" G.D. Ridgeway Pritchett Wright-MorrisYes, she has been in touch, primarily id'ing fotos. Please forward thecorrections to us.B&R
Here's the first one containing info.
Thanks,
John
P.S.
I cc'd you on the message I sent to Rose/Sweetsie yesterday, asking about the Walter Proctor Ridgeway thing....
-----Original Message-----
From:
G.D.wolfwalkswithher R.P.Wright-Morris [SMTP:wolfwalkswithher@]Sent:
Saturday, February 03, 2001 2:44 PMTo:
John
C. CarterSubject:
YaTaHey Cousin, Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you. I hope you are well. Most of the time I am only able to be on the computer at night. I care for my 93 year young mother. Anyway here is what I know about some things that may be incorrect. It is about my family so I am most sure of this information to be correct. I will have to send you more emails to get this finished, as I can only type so much at a time.>>>>PAGE 403 12. Walter (Dewey) Proctor? Ridgeway,Sr. My Mom has always said from the time I can remember that her father,s middle name is Alan. When I told her everyone else is saying that it is Proctor, she gets real stern about it. She said she should know, her own father's name. Maybe someone has the wrong Walter...? Note that her sister Mable named one of her sons, Walter Allen. Walter and Rhoda's son: Walter,Jr. passed age 70 11-?-1966 Children: Charles Pierce wife's son William Ridgeway Anna Mae Hymer " daughter: Mary E. Ridgeway passed age71 5-12-1969 Married: Robert A. Carney born 9-24-1892 passed 3-7-1968 No children.>>>>PAGE 40521. Harry M. Ridgeway passed age 66 1-20/24?-1967. Married: May (Tiddy) Mosley I have heard people refer to her as Tiddy May. Children: Harold Mosley (wife's son) My mom said that Clara Mae Mosley is Tiddy's mother, and there is a sister, Elva Mosley. There is also a grandchild named Clara Mae Mosley. She is the daughter of Elva and Howard Pritchett. This information is not known but only of a few people. That is because Howard is Alberta's husband and this is one of the little skeletons in the closet. Now Alberta's, other brother Howard, had a son with the grandmother, Clara Mae. His name is William Herbert Mosley Ridgeway. I wander if the son listed for Walter Jr., is really his brother Howard's son? My mom said that her brother's, Harry and Walter could not have children. (This is confusing.) Howard was suppose to have died young. He was a great baseball player in the area. Mom said he could have played pro, but did not want to play as a negro.27. Sarah (Sadie) Jane Ridgeway passed age 74 10-20/23?-1968 Married: 1st George Sammon,Sr. Children: George Sammons,Jr. Myrtle Sammons Arzzie Sammons? Clarence (Tupsey) Morris is not her father. Aunt Sadie would never tell her, who her father was. She went to her grave wanting to know this. Many times Aunt Arzzie ask my mother to tell her. All my mom knew was that Aunt Sadie was with a Miller at the time. I am also not to sure that Aunt Sadie was married to Tupsey either. I will call Aunt Arzzie's son , to find out. I have been trying for a couple of days but no answer. Mom said that her sister Sadie and Tubsey were old when they were together.28. Benjamin Franklin Ridgeway,Sr. ( someone's birthday is wrong here. My Mom was born 4-10-1907) Children: I do not know of a Leanna. Could be a grand child. : Mary Ridgeway m Garnett. There son Benjamin (Smokey) Garnett was raised by Uncle Ben and Aunt Dot. There are more children. I do not know there names. : Leona Ridgeway m Thomas Morris. There Children are: Wayne? ( not sure of name) Linda Phillip Kevin : Raymond Ridgeway m Constance Morris. There children are: Tina and maybe another. I only know tina. : Anthony ( I never heard this name,but there is a son called Dewey, after Walter,Sr. and his son Howard. Maybe this is Anthony.) He married Edith Seeney. I do not know the childrens names.Also, Annaetta and Charles are not suppose to be Uncle Ben's. They are Aunt Dot's. That is why there were no problems with them marring who they married. They all would have been cousins!!! I do not know if the children know this or not or who else but a few, do. She also has a son, Floyd Morgan. 2 of his children I know are, Floyd (Sony) Morgan,Jr. and Ernest (Ernie) Morgan.29. Alberta Ridgeway Born 4-10-1907. She is 93 years. m Howard Pritchett 6-6-1919. He was born on record 8-1-1898. This is not accurate. His birth records were burned in the court house fire in Dover, De. in the early 1900's. His niece, Elizabeth Pritchett-Turner has summited to the Mitsawokett site, 8-2-1897. That also is not correct, either. His younger brother, Charles E. Pritchett was born in 1897. Their sister, Buehla Pritchett-Clark, was born in 1890. (you know yourself that children were not spaced that far apart back then.) Howard is the son of Charles Edward Pritchett and Margrett Elizabeth (Maggie) Carney. Daughter of Thomas Carney and Susan Munce Sammons-Dean. Was she married 3 times???(4.
Subj: RE: Mary Priscilla Ridgeway Mosley/Robert "Bob" Sammons Date: 07/09/2000 From: spiff@ (John
C. Carter) To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List')In your recent July 5th message, you wrote: "We show Benjamin SAMMONS andLydia MUNCE with children--...[snip]...but don't have any notation why thesurnames are different."Just to clarify for those who might be confused by this:Susan Munce/Muntz and Susan Sammons are one-and-the-same person. Her fatherwas Benjamin Sammons (I have him as b. Feb 1837) and her mother was Lydia AnnMunce (I have: b. Sep 1832, d. 1908), and there is some question as toBenjamin & Lydia's marital status. Apparently theirs was a common-lawmarriage (illegitimate). Therefore, some of the children have beenreferenced as Munce/Muntz and some as Sammons. I don't have documentationon which children were "officially" listed under each surname.) Children of Howard and Alberta: a son passed age 2 weeks : Marion Louise m William Mabins Parrish,Jr. Son of Carolyn Durham-Loatman-Clark-Mann and William M. Parrish : Adopted daughter Gwendolyn (Dolly) Pritchett m Nolan Kevin Morris.>>>>PAGE 40631. Elizabeth Ridgeway had only 1 husband, Leon Loatman. Her daughter, Evelyn Ridgeway-Lockman was born here in De. before she went to N.J. and meant Leon. Her father is suppose to be William (Will) Sammons. Again this is something not to many people know. Evelyn and her children do know. I was just ask myself about this and if my mom ever verified it to me, by Liz Munson, Evelyn's daughter, this past year at a gathering in Jersey. Leon and Elizabeth raised Leon's grandson, Ronald (Ronnie) Cuff m Carol Ridgeway? Not sure of her maiden name. His mother is Bertha Loatman-Cuff-Rivira(spelled wrong)32. Elsie Ridgeway m Denny Miller Children: Dorothy m Mosley Edna Miller never married She lives in Fort Myers, FloridiaWell that is all I can type for now. I must get off. I will be back in touch soon. Please let me know if you get this, for I sent Celeste some information back on 1-11-01 and she emailed the other day and said she had not heard back from me with the information I gave her about her relatives. Any questions are welcomed. Also, Some of the things I have told you are not possably know by alot of people, so... I feel that some things that are hidden sometimes should not be as in my case. I found my biological father much too late. I really regret that terribley. Take care!
Second message.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
G.D.wolfwalkswithher R.P.Wright-Morris [SMTP:wolfwalkswithher@]Sent:
Sunday, February 04, 2001 2:52 AMTo:
John
C. CarterSubject:
more infoHello Mr. Carter, Thank you for answering me back so fast. I hope that I did not send you to much information at one time. Yes, I know Marian Coker. She is my mother's great granddaughter. I did not catch the mistake in Marion Pritchett's birth date on your site, but you had in your email back to me that her birthdate was Mar 10, 1921. The date should be Mar 1,1921. I will check on the year though, because Mom was married in 1919 and she had Marion that next year. I have to find Mom's marriage certifacate for the true date of her marriage. I kind of remember having that they were married in 1920, but when I ask her she said 1919. As for not having any more children for Howard and Alberta, I do not think anyone in the family , but their daughter, knew anything about the son that passed at 2 weeks old. Most of the "old" people are gone now and nobody was interested in knowing anything untill the past several years. Maybe no one conciders adoption as blood, so it does not get mentioned. The thing is , Howard was my great uncle, I am blood. Buehla is my grandmother, she is Howards sister. My biological mother is his neice. Oh, anyway ... The children of Buehla and James Clark are: Arnetta Pauline ( my mother ) Corrine Milissa Harrietta Donald G. Ronald Robert Vernon (Shiek) George (not sure if this was a son. On a note with the next two names.) Bubbie-Wh itey ( I do not know if these are two seperate people. I have a note stuck in my book with it like this. I guess I forgot about it, and never checked into what it was.) Beuhla had over twenty some childre altogether. Most died. There may be more to add to this list of the ones that made it, these are all I know right now. Also, William Mabins Parrish passed 1-8-2001. Buried at Manship Cematary, Cheswold, DE. Annaetta and Lovey Ridgeway's son David W. passed 1-23-2 001. buried at Sharon Hills Memorial Park, Dover, De. A Donald A. Durham passed on 1-15-2001 in Sumerduck, Va. He was born 1917 in Battle Creek, Mich. Son of William Durham and Marella Seeney. Wife was Rachel Alger, passed 1988. You know I must be getting old, I am looking through the obituary pages now. I would never have known that our people are found in the places I am learning they are. Thanks to the MITSAWOKETT SITE. I would have never found out about it either if it was not for my mom's sister,s granddaughter, Delores F. Carney-Cole. Boy that was a tongue twister. I must go now. talk to you latter. . DOLLY>>> me her mother's name), and that her mother insists that Walter's middle> name was Alan, not Proctor. She doesn't understand why everyone refersto> him as Walter Proctor, and tells Dolly that she (mother) "should know her > own father's name.">
My notes don't show all my sources on this, but I do see that you have> referred to him as Walter Proctor in the message below. Do you know of> anything that substantiates his middle name as Proctor? Do you agreethat> it may indeed be Alan?>
Thanks very much for any comments you can offer.>
Take care,>
John
>>
-----Original Message-----
> From:
Rose Marie Ridgeway [SMTP:rbright4@]> Sent:
Thursday, October 01, 1998 6:30 PM> To:
spiff@> Subject:
Re: Mosely Madness>>
Hi
John
,>> < snip >>> Benjamin Ridgeway, Sr. son of: Walter Proctor Ridgeway - b. Sep 23 1867> DE - d. ?> and Rhoda E. Palmer, b. Dec 17, 1875. They had Benjamin, Walter, Jr.,> Sadie, Elsie, Howard,> Flossie (Elizabeth), Myrtle, Alberta, (I can't think of the others at> this time.> ------------------------------------------------------------------------>> Walter Proctor Ridgeway was the son of Alfred Ridgeway and Sarah Coker> Ridgway/Jack.> ------------------------------------------------------------------------->> < snip >--- r terry--- bettyandrayterry@--- EarthLink: It's your Internet.From: John
C. Carter3/13/01
For your info.
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Dolly Wright-Morris [SMTP:wolfwalkswithher@]Sent:
Monday, March 12, 2001 11:07 PMTo:
John
C. CarterSubject:
Re:corrections
Hi
John
, Got your email. Glad to here from you once again. I had already given Mr.& Mrs.Terry the corrections. I was even able to identify a couple of people in two of the new pictures that have been listed recently. I know what you mean about working on more than one line at a time. I was just trying to get the Ridgeway down and Mr. Ahshapanek from Oklahoma sent me all this valuable information on my Wright line. I found out my gg grandfather was Warren Wright of Sussex County,De. I understand that he was involved somehow with the first startings of the Nanticoke Indian Assc. Have to search on this information. Got to go. . Dolly>>> Walter (Dewey) Proctor? Ridgeway,Sr. >> My Mom has always said from the time I can >> remember that her father,s middle name is Alan. >> When I told her everyone else is saying that it >> is Proctor, she gets real stern about it. She said >> she should know, her own father's name. Maybe >> someone has the wrong Walter...? One place that lists him as "Walter P. Ridgeway," is in the pension records of his father, Alfred W. Ridgeway. Specifically, in a Widow's Claim for Pension, dated 15 Dec 1883, it lists the children of Alfred W. Ridgeway and Sarah Ridgeway Ridgeway who were under age 16 at the time of their father's death (which was on 25 Aug 1883). The children listed are: Walter P. Ridgeway, age 14 Wilhemina Ridgeway, age 12 Roseanna / Rose Ella Ridgeway, age 8 Ann E. Ridgeway, age 6 Susan Ridgeway, age 3 Estella Ridgeway, age 1 yr. 6/12 months Sadie Bell Ridgeway, (twin), age 1 yr. 6/12 months (My notes show there were also earlier-born children named Elizabeth, George, Charles H. & Malinda) Also, the 1880 census for East Dover shows the following household: Ridgaway, Alfred age 44 Sarah age 33, Elizabeth age 20, George age 19, Charles H Age 16, Walter Proctor age 11, Willimnor (sic) age 9 , Roseannah age 5, Ann Elizabeth age 3, Susie age 9/12, So, here are two separate sources, both of which support that his middle name was Proctor. I don't know how to respond to your mother. She's right when she says she should know her own father's middle name, and yet here are two historical records which show his middle initial/name as P. or Proctor. Does the family have any records with the name Allen listed? What about their son, Walter Jr? Was his middle name Proctor? If he died in 1966 there should be a death certificate, and these often list the parents' names. Would Walter Jr's death certificate show his father's middle name? Or even Walter Jr's middle name? Where did Walter Jr. live when he passed away? I did a search on the SSDI website (Social Security Death Index), and found a Walter Ridgway who died in 1966 in Ohio, but he died in February, not November. And he was 80 years old, not 70. Did Walter Jr. live in Ohio? Hope this helps. Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----
From: G.D.wolfwalkswithher R.P.Wright-Morris Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 2:44 PM To: John
C. Carter Subject: Carney,Pritchett,Clark Ridgeway YaTaHey Cousin, Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you. I hope you are well. Most of the time I am only able to be on the computer at night. I care for my 93 year young mother. Anyway here is what I know about some things that may be incorrect. It is about my family so I am most sure of this information to be correct. I will have to send you more emails to get this finished, as I can only type so much at a time. >>>>PAGE 403 12. Walter (Dewey) Proctor? Ridgeway,Sr. My Mom has always said from the time I can remember that her father,s middle name is Alan. When I told her everyone else is saying that it is Proctor, she gets real stern about it. She said she should know, her own father's name. Maybe someone has the wrong Walter...? Note that her sister Mable named one of her sons, Walter Allen. Walter and Rhoda's son: Walter,Jr. passed age 70 11-?-1966 Children: Charles Pierce wife's son William Ridgeway Anna Mae Hymer " daughter: Mary E. Ridgeway passed age71 5-12-1969 Married: Robert A. Carney born 9-24-1892 passed 3-7-1968 No children. >>>>PAGE 405 21. Harry M. Ridgeway passed age 66 1-20/24?-1967. Married: May (Tiddy) Mosley I have heard people refer to her as Tiddy May. Children: Harold Mosley (wife's son) My mom said that Clara Mae Mosley is Tiddy's mother, and there is a sister, Elva Mosley. There is also a grandchild named Clara Mae Mosley. She is the daughter of Elva and Howard Pritchett. This information is not known but only of a few people. That is because Howard is Alberta's husband and this is one of the little skeletons in the closet. Now Alberta's, other brother Howard, had a son with the grandmother, Clara Mae. His name is William Herbert Mosley Ridgeway. I wander if the son listed for Walter Jr., is really his brother Howard's son? My mom said that her brother's, Harry and Walter could not have children. (This is confusing.) Howard was suppose to have died young. He was a great baseball player in the area. Mom said he could have played pro, but did not want to play as a negro. 27. Sarah (Sadie) Jane Ridgeway passed age 74 10-20/23?-1968 Married: 1st George Sammon,Sr. Children: George Sammons,Jr. Myrtle Sammons Arzzie Sammons? Clarence (Tupsey) Morris is not her father. Aunt Sadie would never tell her, who her father was. She went to her grave wanting to know this. Many times Aunt Arzzie ask my mother to tell her. All my mom knew was that Aunt Sadie was with a Miller at the time. I am also not to sure that Aunt Sadie was married to Tupsey either. I will call Aunt Arzzie's son , to find out. I have been trying for a couple of days but no answer. Mom said that her sister Sadie and Tubsey were old when they were together. 28. Benjamin Franklin Ridgeway,Sr. ( someone's birthday is wrong here. My Mom was born 4-10-1907) Children: I do not know of a Leanna. Could be a grand child. : Mary Ridgeway m Garnett. There son Benjamin (Smokey) Garnett was raised by Uncle Ben and Aunt Dot. There are more children. I do not know there names. : Leona Ridgeway m Thomas Morris. There Children are: Wayne? ( not sure of name) Linda Phillip Kevin : Raymond Ridgeway m Constance Morris. There children are: Tina and maybe another. I only know tina. : Anthony ( I never heard this name,but there is a son called Dewey, after Walter,Sr. and his son Howard. Maybe this is Anthony.) He married Edith Seeney. I do not know the childrens names. Also, Annaetta and Charles are not suppose to be Uncle Ben's. They are Aunt Dot's. That is why there were no problems with them marring who they married. They all would have been cousins!!! I do not know if the children know this or not or who else but a few, do. She also has a son, Floyd Morgan. 2 of his children I know are, Floyd (Sony) Morgan,Jr. and Ernest (Ernie) Morgan. 29. Alberta Ridgeway Born 4-10-1907. She is 93 years. m Howard Pritchett 6-6-1919. He was born on record 8-1-1898. This is not accurate. His birth records were burned in the court house fire in Dover, De. in the early 1900's. His niece, Elizabeth Pritchett-Turner has summited to the Mitsawokett site, 8-2-1897. That also is not correct, either. His younger brother, Charles E. Pritchett was born in 1897. Their sister, Buehla Pritchett-Clark, was born in 1890. (you know yourself that children were not spaced that far apart back then.) Howard is the son of Charles Edward Pritchett and Margrett Elizabeth (Maggie) Carney. Daughter of Thomas Carney and Susan Munce Sammons-Dean. Was she married 3 times??? Children of Howard and Alberta: a son passed age 2 weeks : Marion Louise m William Mabins Parrish,Jr. Son of Carolyn Durham-Loatman-Clark-Mann and William M. Parrish : Adopted daughter Gwendolyn (Dolly) Pritchett m Nolan Kevin Morris. >>>>PAGE 406 31. Elizabeth Ridgeway had only 1 husband, Leon Loatman. Her daughter, Evelyn Ridgeway-Lockman was born here in De. before she went to N.J. and meant Leon. Her father is suppose to be William (Will) Sammons. Again this is something not to many people know. Evelyn and her children do know. I was just ask myself about this and if my mom ever verified it to me, by Liz Munson, Evelyn's daughter, this past year at a gathering in Jersey. Leon and Elizabeth raised Leon's grandson, Ronald (Ronnie) Cuff m Carol Ridgeway? Not sure of her maiden name. His mother is Bertha Loatman-Cuff-Rivira(spelled wrong) 32. Elsie Ridgeway m Denny Miller Children: Dorothy m Mosley Edna Miller never married She lives in Fort Myers, Floridia Well that is all I can type for now. I must get off. I will be back in touch soon. Please let me know if you get this, for I sent Celeste some information back on 1-11-01 and she emailed the other day and said she had not heard back from me with the information I gave her about her relatives. Any questions are welcomed. Also, Some of the things I have told you are not possably know by alot of people, so... I feel that some things that are hidden sometimes should not be as in my case. I found my biological father much too late. I really regret that terribley. Take care! John
C. CarterMitsawokett List3/29/01 12:07:01 PM[Mitsawokett] RE: Hutt familyOn March 28th, Ned wrote: >> William Hutt fathered a female child who was >> born July 28, 1824 to Ann Cott. She was a >> member of the Indian-descended community in >> Little Creek and Dover hundreds. The bastardy >> bond, now at the Delaware Public Archives, >> dated December 6, 1834, was signed by her >> father, John
Cott, as well as Samuel John
son >> and William Hutt. >> In 1840, Ann married Elijah Durham, according >> to an entry in the Cott family Bible. Then, Joseph wrote: >> Please clarify the dates. You indicate that the >> bastard child was born in 1824, but that the bastardy >> bond was signed in 1834. Should one of these >> dates be changed to match the other one? I agree. Either something must be wrong with the dates, or else there were two different Ann's. I show that the Mary Ann Cott who married Elijah Durham was born ca. 1816 (according to Joseph's website), which would make her only 8 years old in 1824. Thanks, John
John
C. Carter billrichTerry, Betty & Ray3/31/01 12:10:01 AMRE: Brigham Young University's DNA Testing
Hi, Bill. I already underwent the testing, at least the volunteer sample phase, when it was here in the Tampa Bay area back in February. I'm not sure what type of tests or suggestions might be in progress with our group, in terms of various family lineages. I would not qualify for any of the male lineages that were discussed (Handsor, Morgan, etc), as my male line descends from Carter back to my great-grandfather, who was an illegitimate son of a Hardcastle. However, I am participating in a special case test, to substantiate my descent from the Hardcastle family. You may want to send a reminder to the Mitsawokett or Kuskarawoak lists, to see if further discussion can be initiated. The Philadelphia testing is not until April 28th. (There was supposed to be a test in Frederick, Maryland that same day, but it has apparently been cancelled or rescheduled, as it is no longer showing on their website). Good luck! John
-----Original Message-----
From: billrichSent: Friday, March 30, 2001 11:01 AM To: John
C. Carter; Betty Terry Subject: Brigham Young University's DNA Testing Hello: Guess no one wants to do the Brigham Young University's DNA Testing? ________________ Bill Richardson Toronto, Canada John
C. CarterMitsawokett@3/31/01 5:25:26 PM[Mitsawokett] RE: Hutt familyNed Heite wrote: >> The child was born in 1834, when Ann was 18. >> John
, does this change your take on the >> mother's identity?
Hi, Ned. Yes, it sounds as if this is the same Mary Ann Cott who later married Elijah Durham, since this was the only Cott family known in the area, and her father's name John
Cott also matches. John
John
C. CarterMitsawokett@3/31/01 5:25:26 PM[Mitsawokett] RE: Hutt familyNed Heite wrote: >> The child was born in 1834, when Ann was 18. >> John
, does this change your take on the >> mother's identity?
Hi, Ned. Yes, it sounds as if this is the same Mary Ann Cott who later married Elijah Durham, since this was the only Cott family known in the area, and her father's name John
Cott also matches. John
John
C. CarterJohn
C. CarterMitsawokett List4/8/01 11:57:38 AM[Mitsawokett] RE: Harriet CorkHello, all. Harry Muncey wrote: >> I have seen in our research group memos >> that Harriet Cork was married to a Carney or >> Ridgeway. Which is correct and do you >> know if they were living in DE or NJ in 1860? Then, Karen Luzzo wrote: >> According to my records, (Bible records) >> Harriet Cork b. abt 1834 married James >> Greenage b. abt 1834 s/o Benjamin Greenage. >> Sarah Greenage, James sister, married Levi >> Carney. I do not have the exact birth dates. >> The family records say "they lived in New >> Jersey," However, I believe that they were >> both born in DE. Is it known whether this Harriet was the daughter of Peregrine "Perry" Cork Jr. and Hannah Concealler? The timeline looks about right. The only children I have for them are Deborah Cork (b. ca. 1838) who married John
Hughes, and Hester Annie Cork (b. 14 Jan 1841) who married James H. Munce/Muncey. Is this Benjamin Greenage the same one that was married to Rachel Miller? I show Benjamin with children named Josiah, James, John
, Washington, Frances, & Ann, but did not have a Sarah listed. (I did not have any spouses' names for any of the children). Thanks! John
P.S.
Harry, as for the Angelica Munce (b. ca. 1848) who married George Miller, I show that she died in Cheswold, DE on 13 Nov 1919 (per information obtained from you). Not sure if this should be taken as indication they lived in DE or whether Angelica just returned there sometime before her death. I do not have a death date for George Miller. John
C. CarterJohn
C. CarterMitsawokett ListMDCAROLI-L@; LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@; DESUSSEX-L@; Kuskarawoak List4/18/01 11:31:53 PM[Mitsawokett] Molecular GenealogyHello, all. Just a reminder of the date for Brigham Young University's upcoming DNA sample collection nearest to the Delaware area, for those of you wishing to participate. BYU staff will be taking samples in Philadelphia on Saturday, April 28th. For those wanting more information, please visit the website listed in the article below. (Sorry, I don't have an article from the Philadelphia or Delaware area. The article below is from January and from our local paper here in St. Petersburg, FL). The BYU folks were here back in February, whereupon myself and another list cousin donated our DNA. Thanks, John
P.S.
Do not send e-mail to the Joel Myres mentioned in the article below. The website mentions that he passed away in March. If you are interested in contacting the staff, please use the "Contact Us" link on their website. ----------------------------------------------------------- Genetics study open to genealogy buffs By DONNA MURRAY ALLEN ? St. Petersburg Times, published January 13, 2001 If you have free time, spare blood and a four-generation pedigree chart, Ugo Perego wants to meet you. A Brigham Young University student, Perego has the job of helping microbiology professor Scott Woodward find 100,000 participants for a three-year study that merges genetics with genealogy. Woodward, the researcher who discovered a genetic marker that led to the discovery of the gene for cystic fibrosis, heads up BYU's Molecular Genealogy Research Group. Just as it was possible to genetically link Thomas Jefferson to Sally Hemmings' last child, DNA can be used to relate individuals to their immediate families, ancestors, tribal groups and even entire populations. The MGRG plans to use markers to reconstruct worldwide family trees. The BYU group comes to Florida in February. Project representatives will be on hand to provide an overview, answer questions and collect samples at Mormon Family History Centers in Largo, Port Charlotte and Sarasota. In Largo, the event takes place at 9 a.m. on Feb. 10. Contact Charles Grandmaison at for details. For more calendar information, contact your local FHC or log on to . You must be 18 to participate. Woodward launched the study last March. He wants to compile a database of 100,000 blood samples from at least 500 worldwide populations in the next three to five years. Each sample will be correlated with a four-generation family history that includes the date and place of birth for each ancestor. The results will be computerized. "One hundred thousand samples will provide us with an understanding of the genetic make-up of the world," Prego said in a phone interview from his Brigham Young office in Provo, Utah. "We'll also know what markers from specific areas of the world look like. In the future, individuals will benefit from this database to trace their ancestors, because they will be able to compare their DNA to those in the database. Since each individual carries within them a unique record of who they are and how they are related to everyone else, it will be possible to overcome such genealogical obstacles as illegitimacy, adoption and missing records to prove his or her lineage. For American Indians and African-Americans, among others, such data would be invaluable." As the database grows, more genealogical mysteries will be solved. The MGRG is retracing the movement of genes in time and space, Perego said. This data will help confirm migration patterns. For centuries, people who shared similar DNA tended to remain in a small geographical area. Times have changed. Perego used some of my ancestors as an example. As far back as 1800, some of my kin lived in what is now known as Slovakia. Thus, the DNA of my early Slovak relatives is the same DNA strain found in 1890 in Pennsylvania where my great-grandfather settled. Now it can be found in Florida -- in me. In other words, that original Slovak DNA could be found just about anywhere these days. But the study isn't getting quite that personal yet. To protect the privacy of those participating in the study, names won't be released or kept in the database. DNA samples are assigned identification numbers when the data is collected to ensure confidentiality. Anyone interested in participating in the study to solve a personal genealogical situation must submit a special release form. E-mail Joel Myres at to obtain a copy of that form. Why is BYU sponsoring this project? "Every Latter-Day Saint (Mormon) is required to compile a four-generation pedigree chart," Perego said. "Genealogy is very important in order to understand who we are and how we are related to others. We treat our kin differently than we treat anyone else." * * * From: John
C. CarterTo: Mitsawokett ListSent: 4/20/01 12:57:26 PMSubject: [Mitsawokett] RE: Angelica "Ann" Munce Miller On April 7, 2001, Harry Muncey wrote: >> Ann Munce, sister of James H. Munce, was >> supposedly married to George Miller. >> Were they living in DE or NJ? Then, on April 8, 2001, I wrote: >> Harry, as for the Angelica Munce (b. ca. 1848) >> who married George Miller, I show that she died >> in Cheswold, DE on 13 Nov 1919 (per infor- >> mation obtained from you). Not sure if this >> should be taken as indication they lived in DE >> or whether Angelica just returned there some- >> time before her death. I do not have a death >> date for George Miller. Then, on April 19, 2001, Harry wrote: >> Did you say you had some kind of a death >> record for Ann Munce Miller? If so, could you >> email or snail mail a copy to me? Thanks.
Hi, Harry. I don't have an actual death record. What I have is a copy of a family group sheet that you gave to me years ago, which has her death date listed as 13 Nov 1919 in Cheswold, Kent Co, DE. There is no notation as to where you obtained the death information. You have her name listed as "Anjelica (Ann Jellico) Munce," and her spouse as George Miller. I will send you a scan of the family group sheet, off-list in a separate message. Hope this helps. Let me know if you need anything else. Thanks, John
John
C. CarterJohn
C. Carterbettyandrayterry@4/29/01 11:29:43 PMRE: Molecular Genealogy
Hi, Betty & Ray. Wow, that price is definitely discouraging. Yes, Joel had been referring to the Y-chromosome testing in regard to my case. Hmm, wonder if any other universities might be working on any projects or training of their technicians/students, in which they would need some DNA to "practice" on? Just a thought.... As science improves, such tests will probably become easier and cheaper, but the question is how long will this take? I empathize with you on the response, but hopefully some new aspect may come to light. (If I win the Lotto, I'll send you some $$!) :-) I'm still worried about what the price for mine will be. They still haven't given me any indication, other than that it would not be "any[thing] close to the price" I was quoted by the private lab. (Also the response you just received, stating that Y-chromosome testing is "much much cheaper" that the $1000 test). Still, with four people participating in my test (for which I'm paying all costs), I'm a little nervous.... Keeping my fingers crossed.... Take care, John
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty & Ray Terry [] Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 2:01 AM Subject: RE: Molecular Genealogy
Hi
John
, We had a reply a couple of days ago. Here it is -- Dear Betty, Thank you for your sincere condolences. My name is Diahan Southard and I am taking over for Joel. Unfortunately, I do not have the information you sent to Joel. I am not sure if Joel informed you of the significant cost involved in the test for cousins who are not paternally related. It is about $1000. I am sure this is discouraging to you. There is a much much cheaper way, but that requires testing direct male lines, which from your description of your problem, this would not be possible. I am sorry. If you have any further questions or concerns, please email me. Best, Diahan Southard Not sure that we want to proceed. Joel was probably referring to Y chromosome tests (as Ms. Southard is) when he said the cost to you would not be nearly as much as you had been quoted locally to have you and Mr. Hardcastle testing. Alice and I do not share m-dna. Of course not Y dna. Hence the complexities. All we know about others doing testing are via messages on the Mitsawokett List, which you also read. More complexities occur as we age. We both are now addicted to the bottles -- Rx kind that is. Tons. Let us know what the dna conclusion is to your tests! We are working up some information found recently at the Archives. Will post it later. Cheers! B R ----- Original Message ----- From: John
C. Carter To: Sent: 4/27/01 8:47:30 PM Subject: RE: Molecular Genealogy
Hi, Ray Betty. Been busy with other things, and haven't had much opportunity for genealogy lately. How have you been? How is your progress coming along on the Molecular Genealogy front? I gather you saw in my message a few days ago that Joel Myres had passed away. I was very surprised when I saw it on the website. My sample was sent in on the 16th, not sure about my Hardcastle cousin's.... My brother had a problem with his, by thinking that he could put a FedEx package in his mailbox in front of his house and expect the USPS to pick it up! So he trashed it. BYU is supposed to be sending him another one. In the meantime I heard back from my first cousin, who agreed to provide a sample as well, so I've just requested a couple of days ago for his kit to be sent out. So, in the next few weeks, I should have some results.... Hope your efforts are progressing well. Take care, John
P.S.
Have you heard of many (any?) people going to the sample collection in Philadelphia tomorrow? Just wondering....
-----Original Message-----
From: r terry [ ] Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 6:30 AM To: spiff@Subject: RE: FW#5: corrections
Hi
John
, We recently mailed pedigrees to Joel Myres to begin the process. We had not known of his being replaced by Ms. Southard. Perhaps she, too, will want one more person, which we can come up with, fortunately. B R
-----Original Message-----
From: John
C. CarterSent: Tuesday, March 13, 2001 6:53 AM To: 'Terry, Betty Ray' Subject: Checking in re: Molecular Genealogy
Hi, Ray Betty. I also meant to ask you how your project with BYU (Molecular Genealogy) is going. Have you provided samples yet? Have you had much communication with them? I finally heard back from a Diahan Southard yesterday, who said she was "taking over for Joel" (Myres). They've asked if I could locate at least one other person to be tested along with my Hardcastle cousin and myself, as an added aspect to make a more definitive result. They said it wasn't necessary, but that it would help. Waiting to hear back from my cousin whether there are any possible candidates along his branch, as mine is pretty sparse with male paternally-descended family members. I do have one brother and a couple of male first cousins that I can ask, if BYU says these aren't too close to my branch. Anyway, I just thought I would check in as to the progress with Betty's paternal case. Take care, John
--------------------------------------------------------------- Betty Ray TerryFrom: John
C. CarterTo: Terry, Betty & RayDate: 4/28/01
Subj: Charlotte (Carty?) (Griggs?) Sammons
Hi, Ray & Betty. You may already know about this, but I just heard about it from Pinky. Charlotte was Pinky's aunt (wife of Pinky's mother's brother Elmer). (Also, sister-in-law of Corrine Sammons Christiansen). Had to search a while to find the obituary, since I didn't know what the name of the Camden area newspaper was. Finally found it. Thanks, John
P.S.
I've asked Pinky if she knows of any Carty/Carter connection for Charlotte. Will let you know what she says. Whoa! Just noticed that the obit says "nee Griggs." I thought she was supposed to be a Carty?? Per your email attached at bottom. -------------------------------------------------- SAMMONS Charlotte G. (nee Griggs) of Clarksboro formerly of Gibbstown. On Apr. 20, 2001, age 88 yrs. Wife of the late Elmer (Slim) Sammons. Survived by 2 daughters-Edna E. Askew of Lindenwold, Betty J. Swift of Clarksboro, 15 grandchildren, 24 great grandchildren, and 2 great-great grandchildren. Relatives and friends may call Tuesday from 10am to 11am at the SMITH FUNERAL HOME, 47 Main St., Mantua. Funeral Service will be Tuesday 11am at the funeral home. Burial will be in the Eglington Cemetery. Contributions may be made to St. John
of God Community Services, 532 Delsea Dr.,Westville Grove, NJ 08093 or the charity of donor's choice.
-----Original Message-----
[] Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 12:02 AM Subject: Re: Sammons family In a message dated 06/15/2000 10:09:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, writes: > We don't have her parents.
-----Original Message-----
From: John
C. Carter [] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 10:14 PM Subject: RE: Sammons family
Hi, Ray & Betty. 1. Is the Carty who was married to Elmer Sammons any relation to the other Cartys from Maryland? < snip > Thanks! John
-----Original Message-----
[] Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 10:20 PM Subject: Re: Sammons family John
, No clue as to why you have the weird experiences with attachments, note pad, etc. We do from time to time receive messages with weird substitutions, like i in place of apostrophe. In a message dated 06/12/2000 5:02:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, writes: > Manship grave inscription: "W. G. Sammons 1882 - 1946" Manship grave inscription: "Ella D. Sammons 1888 - 1969" > We don't have a 1910 date for any Mary Sammons. Mary V. S. Reed is definitely 1933. She was younger than Betty. Your list -- 1. Helen Sammons, b. 1906 2. Elmer Sammons, b. 1907 3. Morris Sammons, b. 1909 4. Mary Virginia Sammons, b. 1910 5. Odis Sammons, b. 1912 6. Anna Bell Sammons, b. 1913 7. Hazella "Haz" Sammons, b. 19 Jul 1915 8. Stanley Sammons, b. 1918 9. Corrine Sammons, b. unknown 10. Lily Beatrice Sammons, b. unknown 11. Bernice Sammons, b. unknown 12. Jesse Sammons, b. unknown 13. ? Sammons, b. unknown Our list. Children of William Garfield Sammons and Ella Durham were as follows: + 2 i Helen2 Sammons, born 7 Nov 1905; died Sep 1970 in Cheswold, Kent, Delaware; buried in Forest Grove Cemetery, near Cheswold, Kent, Delaware. She married James Greenage. 3 ii Elmer2 Sammons, born 1 Jan 1907; died Sep 1981 in Gibbstown, New Jersey; buried in Clarksborough, New Jersey. He married Charlotte Carty. 4 iii Morris2 Sammons, born 22 Oct 1908; died 14 Jul 1992 in Old Bridge, New Jersey. He married Sylvia Jackson. 5 iv Otis2 Sammons, born 11 Apr 1911; died Sep 1981. He married Hazel Jackson. + 6 v Annabelle2 Sammons, born 31 Jul 1913; died 15 Feb 1989 in Kent General Hospital, Dover, Kent, Delaware; buried in Immanuel Union United Methodist Church (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. She married (1) Thomas Greenage; (2) Lincoln "Link" Carney. + 7 vi Hazella2 Sammons, born 19 Jul 1915 in Cheswold, Kent, Delaware; died 10 Jan 1996 in Kent General Hospital, Dover, Kent, Delaware; buried 14 Jan 1996 in Immanuel Union United Methodist (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. She married Roland "Tip" Coker (Rev.). 8 vii Stanley2 Sammons, born 8 Aug 1917; died Aug 1982 in Plainfield, New Jersey. He married Daisey (---), born in England; died in California. 9 viii Lilly Beatrice2 Sammons, born 3 Feb 1920; died Sep 1995; buried in Immanuel Union United Methodist Church (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. She married Clarence Carney. + 10 ix Bernice2 Sammons, born 27 Mar 1923; died 24 May 1977 in Bridgeton, Cumberland, New Jersey; buried in Immanuel Union United Methodist Church (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. She married Fred Willard Morris Hughes (Tall Cedar). 11 x Jesse L.2 Sammons, born 1925; died 1933; buried in Immanuel Union United Methodist (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. + 12 xi Corrine Priscilla2 Sammons, born abt 1928 in Dover, Kent, Delaware. She married Andre Leroy Christiansen. 13 xii (---)2 Sammons, died Infant . + 14 xiii Mary Virginia2 Sammons, born 13 Jan 1933 in Cheswold, Kent, Delaware; died 11 Jun 1999 in Washington Hospital Center, Washington, D.C.; buried 16 Jun 1999 in Immanuel Union United Methodist (Manship) Cemetery, Bishop's Corner, Kent, Delaware. She married Allen Thomas Reed. We put the unnamed baby as #13 only because that is the largest gap between children. --------------------- B&R Terry ---------------------
Hi, Betty & Ray. Wow, that price is definitely discouraging. Yes, Joel had been referring to the Y-chromosome testing in regard to my case. Hmm, wonder if any other universities might be working on any projects or training of their technicians/students, in which they would need some DNA to "practice" on? Just a thought.... As science improves, such tests will probably become easier and cheaper, but the question is how long will this take? I empathize with you on the response, but hopefully some new aspect may come to light. (If I win the Lotto, I'll send you some $$!) :-) I'm still worried about what the price for mine will be. They still haven't given me any indication, other than that it would not be "any[thing] close to the price" I was quoted by the private lab. (Also the response you just received, stating that Y-chromosome testing is "much much cheaper" that the $1000 test). Still, with four people participating in my test (for which I'm paying all costs), I'm a little nervous.... Keeping my fingers crossed.... Take care, John
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty & Ray TerrySent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 2:01 AM To: spiffSubject: RE: Molecular Genealogy
Hi
John
, We had a reply a couple of days ago. Here it is -- Dear Betty, Thank you for your sincere condolences. My name is Diahan Southard and I am taking over for Joel. Unfortunately, I do not have the information you sent to Joel. I am not sure if Joel informed you of the significant cost involved in the test for cousins who are not paternally related. It is about $1000. I am sure this is discouraging to you. There is a much much cheaper way, but that requires testing direct male lines, which from your description of your problem, this would not be possible. I am sorry. If you have any further questions or concerns, please email me. Best, Diahan Southard Not sure that we want to proceed. Joel was probably referring to Y chromosome tests (as Ms. Southard is) when he said the cost to you would not be nearly as much as you had been quoted locally to have you and Mr. Hardcastle testing. Alice and I do not share m-dna. Of course not Y dna. Hence the complexities. All we know about others doing testing are via messages on the Mitsawokett List, which you also read. More complexities occur as we age. We both are now addicted to the bottles -- Rx kind that is. Tons. Let us know what the dna conclusion is to your tests! We are working up some information found recently at the Archives. Will post it later. Cheers! B RFrom: John
Carter To: B&R Sent: 5/3/01 10:28:10 PM Subject: RE: Charlotte Sammons
Hi, Ray & Betty. Yes, I heard back from Pinky, but all she said was that her aunt (not sure if she meant Charlotte, or another aunt) had referred to Charlotte's mother as a Carty. I forwarded you her response shortly after the other message. (She had answered my message within a half-hour of sending you the other one). Perhaps Charlotte's mother was re-married to a Carty? John
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty & Ray TerrySent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 9:50 PM To: Carter John
Subject: Charlotte Sammons
P.S.
I've asked Pinky if she knows of any Carty/Carter connection for Charlotte. Will let you know what she says. Whoa! Just noticed that the obit says "nee Griggs." I thought she was supposed to be a Carty?? Thats what we heard from Corrine. This needs follow-up. We had Charlotte's 2 daughters listed as Seeneys, but no notes to say why. Grrrrrrr. Possibly our error. Have you heard from Pinky? --------------------------------------------------------------- Betty Ray TerryFrom: John
C. Carter To: Schroeder, Evelyn;Jackson, Lynn;Terry, Betty & Ray;Unger, Debbie;Rootscolumn@ Cc: Hicks, David; Hardcastle, Tom; Carter, Jim & Susan Sent: 5/23/01 11:22:53 PM Subject: RE: Molecular Genealogy Hello, all. I realized it's been a while since I'd communicated with some of you regarding the DNA testing I was undergoing with my fifth-cousin Tom, my brother Jim, and my first-cousin David, in order to substantiate the a link between the Carter and Hardcastle families. The word is: No results yet. I sent the BYU representative an inquiry on May 11th and heard back from her on the 14th that the analysis had begun and should be completed within about 3 weeks. She said she would notify me when they "are done and have started compiling the data." Not sure if that means there's another step (compiling) to be done after the "analysis," but hopefully there will be some results in the near future. I will keep you posted. Thanks! John
From: John
C. Carter To: Mitsawokett List Sent: 5/21/01 11:00:31 PM Subject: [Mitsawokett] RE: Peter Beckett
Hi, Dallas & Joseph & all. On May 6th, Dallas Phelps wrote: >> Is Peter Beckett (b. 20 Apr. 1831 DE.), >> the son of Greenbury Beckett/Beckets? Then, also on May 6th, Joseph Romeo wrote: >> Your ancestor Peter Beckett is not the same >> Peter Beckett who was the son of Greensbury >> Beckett. Greensbury's Peter was born ca. >> 1857 and is buried in Manship Cemetery. I'm sorry, I don't have any information on Dallas' Peter Beckett, but I had a question about the other Peter Beckett (the one born ca. 1857, son of Greensbury): Is this the same Peter as Peter H. Beckett (1857-1942) who married Mary E. Reed (1858-1936)? Thanks! John
From: Donald W. Fisher To: Mitsawokett List Sent: 5/22/01 5:13:19 PM Subject: Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Peter Beckett I believe so, John
. Compare the cemetery data with the 1860 census (age 3) and it looks very likely. 1) Son of Greensbury Becketts and Hester Hargrove (or Argo?). 2) Also mentioned in Greensbury's probate documents. 3) Connection to Mary E. Reed is documented at cemetery and may be in later censuses (I haven't looked). Related question: Is the Greensberry buried at Manship the father of Peter? The birthdate (1845) as reported in the Dill book would have to be substantially incorrect, but the death date agrees with the probate documents. Perhaps the citation was misread from the stone - since Greensbury was born in 1812-1813 according to the censuses. The presumption would be that Hester went on to other pursuits after Greensbury's death, making it quite possible that she is buried elsewhere, perhaps with a later husband. The Peter Becket(s) from Philadelphia who married Mary Ellen Durham (Elijah Durham and Mary Ann Cott) seems to be someone else. This Peter may have been related to Peter H. in some way, but documentation has not come to light. There are possibilities that Philadelphia Peter, b. ca. 1832, could be a younger brother of Greensbury or perhaps a nephew. Unfortunately, the probate of Greensbury's father Peregrine (Perry) Becketts does not contain a reference to any children or to a wife. There is a male under 10 in Perry's household, no name given, listed in the 1830 census. However, Greensbury's own probate does seem to have a curious reference to a probable brother named Peter, who was initially named as administrator, but then replaced with Isaac Salmons. It is entirely possible that this brother is Philadelphia Peter. [It is also curious as to why Greensbury's oldest son Perry was not named as administrator.] Don Donald W. FisherFrom: John
C. Carter To: Mitsawokett List Cc: Unger, Debbie Sent: 5/25/01 7:28:12 PM Subject: [Mitsawokett] Re: Margaret Ann Durham (Norford) On Thursday, May 24th, Barbara Starr wrote: >> I just received copie(s) of the Death Certificate(s) >> for Anna Norford and Isaac Norford (from the >> Delaware Archives).
Hi, Barbara. I don't think you and I have ever communicated directly before, but I am pleased to make your acquaintance. :-) I, for one, know of one cousin who's going to be bouncing off the walls from your message, with the info about Margaret Ann Durham Burton (Clark?) Norford!! Our cousin, Debbie Pierce Unger, (who lives only a mile or two from me, here in Florida), has been searching for information on Margaret FOR YEARS!! In fact, knowing that she would be ecstatic with the news, I called her at home first thing this morning shortly after I got to work. I was going to call her at 7:00am before I left home (where I'd read your message in the daily Mitsawokett digest), but I thought she should get as much rest as possible, as I'm sure she'll be up late tonight pondering all of this new info! So, I waited until 8:00am. As predicted, she was VERY excited at the news. Margaret is Debbie's great-great-grandmother, and Debbie had long sought any record of her death or other info. Debbie had attempted to order a death certificate from Delaware, and I had tried to order one from New Jersey, as we were not sure where she had passed away. However, although we had tried several versions of her name (Margaret Burton, Margaret Northern, etc), we were unaware of the spelling of Norford, or of her using her middle name Ann/Anna. We were also unsure of her date of death, although we had been told it was supposedly ca. 1930. I'm sure Debbie will follow-up with more details, but it is also news to us (at least, to me) that Margaret was married to a Clark. Our data showed Margaret to have had at least / presumably 3 spouses: 1. an unmarried (and supposedly first) spouse of unknown name, who fathered Margaret's illegitimate son James E. H. "Porter" Durham (Debbie's great-grandfather); 2. a second spouse with the last name of Burton; and 3. a third spouse named "Isaac Northern." The Clark spouse seems to be as unknown to us as the Burton spouse was to you. It stands to reason that the "unknown" spouse was indeed the first spouse, since James E. H. "Porter" Durham was born 10 May 1867, and you listed the Clark children (including your grandfather) as born between 1877-1891, and the Norford daughter as born in 1884. I realize you probably won't see this message until after the holiday weekend, but just had to share comments on this wonderful news right away. By the time you read this, Debbie will have undoubtedly written to you as well. Take care, and thanks for the great info! John
P.S.
I am a descendant of Jeremiah Councilor/Concealler, grandson of John
Durham, Sr. (d. ca. 1788), Jeremiah being a first cousin of Benjamin Durham, Sr. (d. ca. 1810), who was grandfather of the Benjamin Durham (d. 1888) who was Margaret's father. I am also a descendant of Elisha Durham (b. ca. 1794), for whom we do not yet know his ancestry. John
C. CarterFrom: John
C. Carter To: Mitsawokett List Sent: 5/29/01 8:05:48 PMSubject: [Mitsawokett] Civil War Soldiers & Sailors SystemHello, all. Great news for Civil War researchers! The Civil War Soldiers & Sailors System is now online (though it has been described as not yet complete) (which must be true, because I cannot find two ancestors from my maternal side listed). The URL is: Civil War Soldiers & Sailors System Searchable by Name and Regiment, it gives many regiment histories and details of the battles they were in. Also, if they were in a "Colored" unit, it gives which plaque on the African American Civil War Memorial (in Washington DC) where their name is located. (Be careful when entering information on the search page. If you look up someone, you might want to try a few spellings, and sometimes putting in more info can be too restrictive. For example, my great-great-grandfather Cornelius Ridgeway, listed below, was in the 8th Pennsylvania Infantry, which was also known as the 8th U.S. Colored Infantry. If you enter "Pennsylvania" in the state field on the search page, it won't find him. But if you leave the state field blank, he is found. Also, entering a first initial instead of a first name can be helpful if you're not sure of how it might be spelled in their system. Be creative with your search methods). I just finished a search, and found all of the following members of our families: William Carney: Daniel Coker: John
H. Morgan: Isaiah "Zadock" / "Zeddick" Munce/Muntz: Alfred Wilbank Ridgeway: Cornelius Ridgeway: James H. Seeney: James Songo: These are all the ancestors of Mitsawokett listmembers I know of, who were Civil War veterans. If anyone knows of any others, please share. Also, I have copies of most of the pension records and/or military records of the men listed above. If anyone would like copies, just let me know. And finally, any male descendant of any of the men listed above (or any other Union veteran of the Civil War), or a male descendant of a SIBLING of any of them, is eligible for membership in the SUVCW (Sons of Unions Veterans of the Civil War). I can provide further information if desired. Thanks! John
John
C. Carter
-C-Carter/ Paternal surnames: Bailey, Carney, Carter/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston, Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor, Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Joy, Morgan, Morris, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Orem, Ridgeway, Wyatt Volunteer - Headstone Hunter This is a message from the list Mitsawokett. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to From: John
C. Carter To: Mitsawokett List Sent: 5/29/01 6:58:11 PMSubject: RE: Chopped liver
Hi, Ray & Betty. Sorry to have been the bearer of "disad-font-ageous" news. (hoo, boy, sorry, bad pun!) It's regretful that more listmembers wouldn't respond to say if they viewed the effect as well. I suppose if you really wanted to still use the new font, it's still coherent (at least, in the original message. As each response is sent back & forth, though, it seems to perpetuate. See below). Anyway-- On another subject, there is a chance I may be visiting the area in August. Debbie Pierce Unger will be going to Bridgeton Aug 16-24, and will be participating in a naming ceremony with the Bridgeton Indian group on Aug 18th. (A cousin of hers will be giving her an Indian name). She is strenuously trying to talk me into getting a name as well, but I'm resisting, so far. Although the idea has a certain temptation of "pride of heritage" to it, it also feels hypocritical, or disrespectful to the type of people I know of as "full bloods" (from my college years, out west, when I had several Navajo friends). At any rate, I wouldn't mind going just to be in attendance for hers, and to visit family, and of course to traipse around in cemeteries!!! :-) If I go, I would most likely fly on Southwest Airlines. (Not only my favorite airline, but also I need only one more trip with them to qualify for a free ticket). Since the closest they fly to New Jersey is Baltimore, I would undoubtedly fly to Baltimore, pick up a rental car, and then drive to Bridgeton to stay with my Aunt & Uncle (with trips to the surrounding area, including Cheswold, of course). It would be great to meet you while I'm up that way, if possible. John
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty & Ray TerrySent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 4:56 PM To: SpiffSubject: RE: Chopped liver Did you choose a new font or setting between Mar 21st and April 17th?Yes, we started using "comic sans ms" -- guess we will go back to the common variety font. From: John
C. Carter To: Betty and Ray7/12/01 11:02:10 PMRE: This & that...
Hi, Ray & Betty. Thanks for the note. Glad you had a great time. I loved the "big island," Hawaii, as it had so many different "looks" to it. Parts of it looked just like you were in a small Ohio farmtown, and other parts would have fields of orchids, and other parts looked like the volcanic landscape of an alien planet! Be sure to let me know if you end up in the Florida Keys. It's quite a distance from here; I've actually never been to the Keys. Finally made it to Miami a couple of years ago. Prior to that, hadn't been any further south than Ft. Myers. Anyway, I leave Saturday for one week out in southern California, visiting my brother and his family, so there may be a delay in any emails that week. I can access my email from my brother's computer, though. I know we'll be taking my nephew camping for a couple of days, however, up in the Bristlecone Pine area. Well, I just confirmed the appointment tonight with Lew Pierce, former head of the New Jersey tribe. Debbie and I will both be receiving our Indian names in a dual naming ceremony at the tribal grounds outside of Bridgeton on August 18th. I feel a little nervous about it, but am glad that Debbie will be there, sharing in my unease! :-) My Aunt Evelyn will be naming me, and Debbie's cousin Terry will be naming her. Not sure yet what day or days we will be in the Cheswold area.... Well, I'll let you go back to catching up on your email.... Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty & Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 6:22 PM To: spiff@ Subject: RE: Preparing for your trip
Hi
John
, Just received your package today in the mail. Thanks for keeping us posted on all the goings-on we have missed! 1984. A loooooooong time ago..... HA! About Hawaii: Ray worked there 1960-Aug 1964 and Betty 1962-Aug 1964. We met and married in Hawaii. Ray was working as a technician at Hawaiian Telephone and Betty as an instructor at the U. of Hawaii. When our first child was on the way we moved back to the East Coast to be near our parents who had had just one child each--US. We know a few people there and house-sat for one of them for 3 weeks. The other 2 weeks we spent on the islands of Hawaii and Maui which we had never before visited. It was a wonderful visit and has us exploring ways to permanently move there. Prices there are out-of-sight. We can handle day-to-day living, but will have to get lucky with the housing part. We have a friend who lives in southern Florida. She wants us to rent her brother's house on a Key. We are looking into it--but will have to recover from our 5000 mile swing west first. We will be replying to other messages as we go up the list. After deleting the trash, there are about 300 messages to read and possible reply to. Thanks for all your work and cooperation! B R ----- Original Message ----- From: John
C. Carter To: bettyandrayterry@ Sent: 6/1/01 10:01:51 PM Subject: RE: Preparing for your trip Go down in flames???!!!! What a thought!! Your sense of humor makes me chuckle, though. :-) Anyway, I wish you and Betty a wonderful trip, and hope you have lots of fun! Will you be able to go online while you're out there, like you did on a previous trip, I believe? I think you're going to Hawaii, right? Have you been there before? I was there just once, in 1984. A loooooooong time ago..... Take care, and aloha! John
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@ ] Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:00 PM To: spiff@ Subject: RE: Karen Elizabeth Hughes Mosley
Hi
John
, Karen's husband was born 1938 and her son 1973. 1947 seems about right. Query Lorraine Rose if you wish. Our source for 1947 was either "Genealogy of John
A. Cott of Delaware" 20 pp. from Bridgeton Indian Center/Rose Marie Ridgeway, 2/13/99 -or- GEDCOM file from Lorraine John
son-Gregg 2/99. They are filed away right now we've got other work to do to prepare for departure. Will return July 6. Our daughter has the details for accessing the Mitsawokett web site for uploads - Ellen M. Terry Reichard EMpTieR1@ 301-937-9646. We hope you will take over if we wind up going down in flames. Currently the charges are $35 annually for domain name and $100 annually for the ICOM server. The files on the ICOM server can be move to a free site (like geocities) but the domain name would be lost and you would have to accept advertising on all pages. Ciao baby, B R --------------------------------------------------------------- Betty Ray Terry bettyandrayterry@ ---------------------------------------------------------------
Hi, Ray & Betty. I don't think it's actually private (I'm not really familiar with how the ceremony works), but feel I should also check with Debbie (not sure if we should check with Lew...?), also my Aunt & Uncle are hosting everyone back to their place afterward for a late lunch / early dinner. (Debbie and I will be attending the tribal meeting, which is also that evening at 7:00pm, back at the same tribal grounds where the naming ceremony is). It was originally Debbie's ceremony, and she made all the arrangements, so I feel a little like "bumping in on her turf" although she has been overly gracious and is very excited that I will be participating with her. I had also thought of inviting Lynn (even though she's a member of the arch-rival tribe!), but am not even sure if she'd be interested or not, or if Lew or any others would consider her not an appropriate guest....?? And I would need to make sure with my Aunt, since she and my uncle will be preparing a meal for whoever comes over afterward. And, they will have just got done hosting a huge (about 50 people) barbecue at their place the immediately-preceding Saturday to this one, so I don't want to "over-party" them.... Debbie's cousin Terry Pierce will be naming her, and I'm not sure if Terry will have his wife and/or son there, and Debbie is also inviting her cousin Carrie Gould Wright and her husband Harold. (Carrie & my Aunt Evelyn know each other from their old cycle club days). Anyway, I'm probably putting WAY too much thought into this! But I know Debbie wants to meet you (and so do I !), so we definitely need to arrange something. We'll be in touch about it.... Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty & Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 11:37 PM To: spiff@ Subject: RE: This & that...
Hi, John
, Is the naming ceremony private? We could visit Ida Carter and catch y'all too, then visit Cheswold about the same time and shoot the breeze with you and Ned or whomever. Let us know what is possible and/or desirable and if there are any folks we know that you would like to meet. Sweet dreams, B R Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:09:14 -0400 From: "John
C. Carter" Subject: Laura Ennis Carter Pierce Hello, all. It is with regret that I announce the passing of my great-aunt, Laura Ennis Carter Pierce. She passed away early this morning at the hospital in Vineland, NJ at age 90. She and her surviving husband, John
ie B. Pierce, had the unusual aspect of having the exact same birthday--day, month and year, both having been born on 18 May 1911. Laura was the daughter of Hopewell Umphrey Carter and Sarah "Sallie" Catherine Ridgeway Carter. Other than a younger sister Elizabeth Rebecca Carter who died as an infant, Laura was the youngest of nine children, and the last surviving sibling. Her brothers and sisters included William "Willie" James Carter, Mary Jane Carter Mosley Beckett Muntz, John
Wesley "Fess" Carter, Alice Waters Carter Games, Agnes Letitia Carter Newlin, Hopewell "Pal" Carter, and Katherine Carter Cuff. Besides her husband John
ie, Laura is survived by two daughters, Catherine "Cassie" Emma Pierce Pierce and Doris Elaine Pierce Beckett, two sons-in-law, and several grandchildren. I will try to post an "official" obituary later, once it's published. Thanks, John
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:01:05 -0400 From: "John
C. Carter" Subject: Hewitt Durham
Hi, all. In regard to the message I just sent as a forward for Debbie, I thought I might add a caveat pertaining to this section of Debbie's message: >> (An interesting note. Hewitt "Hughey" >> Durham's sister was Mary Durham who >> married George Clark. So James mother >> married his wife's aunt's husband. >> Maybe that's how they knew each other?) Debbie is referring to references that state that Hewitt was a son of Elisha Durham, Sr. (b. ca. 1794) and his wife Priscilla. This has always been a perplexing issue. Here is an excerpt from a message I sent to the group back in June of 1997 (which then consisted of a whopping 9 members!) (we now have 183 members!): >> It has been reported that Hewitt was the son of >> Elisha Durham (ca. 1794-1864), and his 2nd wife >> Priscilla ________, but this cannot be so. >> Whereas he *might* be a son of PRISCILLA by >> a possible first husband (and thus not be a "true" >> Durham, unless Priscilla's maiden name or >> possible former husband was also a Durham), >> he *cannot* be a son of ELISHA, as per Joel >> Durham's petition to the DE Orphans' Court in >> 1864, which listed all of Elisha & HESTER'S >> children, living & deceased. These children's >> dates of birth range from ca. 1819 to ca. 1837, >> and Hewitt's name was not among them. I've also just checked one of our other resident-Durham-experts Joseph Romeo's website, and looked at Elisha's household, and he has no record of Hewitt being a son of Elisha, either. But, although he shows Elisha as having a 2nd wife Priscilla, he shows no children by them. Here is an excerpt from a message from Debbie, also dating back to June 1997: >> Hewitt aka "Hughie" , born 1829, died 1902. >> he is buried with Ann/Angelica at Manship >> Cemetery, and I have photos of his tombstone >> which list the dates. have searched the Archives, >> but no death record. I know his birth date doesn't >> line up with Elisha's marriage to Priscilla ( I have >> their other child listed as Robert, b. 1841!), but >> anything I find from other family members >> consistently says they were his parents. So, it appears that Debbie was aware of at least one (other) child of Elisha & Priscilla: a Robert Durham born in 1841. (Does anyone else have anything on this Robert?) If this is so, then it would mean that Elisha & Hester's marriage ended (due to Hester's death?) after the birth of their youngest son Clayton Durham (b. ca. 1837-40), and Elisha re-married to Priscilla _______, and had son Robert Durham (b. 1841). This does not fit with their being the parents of Hewitt, who was born in 1829. Just thought I'd throw this out there, for any of our members who might have further info on this mystery!Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 10:17:05 -0400 From: "John
C. Carter" Subject: FW: Lorenzo Dow (Naming Conventions) Hello, all. Received the message below from the Lower DelMarVa Roots list, for those of you who might be interested in the naming conventions of certain ancestors. I know we have a few John
Wesley's (such as John
Wesley Carter, John
Wesley Coker, John
Wesley Cott, John
Wesley Harmon, John
Wesley Pritchett, John
Wesley Sammons, John
Wesley Thompson), but am not sure if we have any Lorenzo Dow's among our families. Does anyone know of any Lorenzo Dow's among our collective family trees? Thanks, John
-----Original Message-----
From: jleehunt1@ [SMTP:jleehunt1@] Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 9:46 AM To: LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@ Subject: [LDR] Lorenzo Dow (Naming Conventions) Hello Everyone, Lorenzo Dow was a circuit riding Methodist (it is thought) minister of great renown. About two years ago I posted a website address here and went back to see if it still in existence and it is. You can read all about him, pictures, his obit, etc. here: I do think there may be more "John
Wesley" first and middle names, but Lorenzo Dow still sticks out. Too bad Francis Asbury didn't quite have the panache of these other two fellows. Best Regards, Janet Hunter Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:28:25 -0400 From: "John
C. Carter" Subject: RE: John
son, Mosley and Reed
Hi, Celeste. I had this message all typed up and ready to post to the list, and then noticed that Paul John
son had already replied. So, I thought I'd go ahead and send my response anyway, in case there's anything extra you might need. On June 10th, Celeste wrote: >> Is anyone familiar with this family group: >> Franklin, Bill and Mary Esther John
son >> are all siblings. Esther married a Reed. >> Who are their parents? Who is Esther's >> husband? Who are Franklin and Bill's wives? >> Orville Mosley is said to be their Uncle. How? >> I would appreciate hearing from anyone who >> can fill-in the missing pieces. >> Celeste They are all the children of Return John
son (b. ca. 1874) and Sarah Virginia Carter (b. ca. 1875). I show Return as the son of Alexander "Zeb" John
son and Mary Priscilla Ridgeway/Jack, and show Sarah Virginia as the daughter of George Thomas (aka George Taft) Carty/Carter and Lena/Lina Mosley. I have six children listed for Return and Sarah Virginia: 1. Mary Esther "Esther" John
son, b. ca. 1895, m. James Leslie "Les" Reed. 2. Anna John
son, b. ca. 1898. 3. James Franklyn "Frank" John
son, b. ca. 1900, m. Mary Carney. 4. Willis "Bill" John
son, b. unknown, m. Henrietta Carey. 5. Mary Virginia John
son, b. unknown, m. ______ Morgan. 6. Isaiah John
son, b. unknown. I do not have an Orville Mosley in my database. [but have now added him, based on Paul's reply]. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks, John
John
C. CarterDate: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:06:19 -0400 From: "John
C. Carter" Subject: Re: Morris Clark and Elizabeth Clark, children of Nathaniel Clark
Hi
again, Celeste. Betty & Ray Terry (?) had written: >> We have Enos Clark marrying Susie Carey. >> Enos was the son of Nathaniel who was the >> son of Whittington Clark. We have no children >> or other family connections for Susie. Celeste (?) replied, on May 31st: >> Correction. Nathaniel and Whittington Clark >> were brothers. Their father was Thomas Clark, >> mother was Elizabeth Morris. Then, also on May 31st, Celeste wrote: >> Betty: >> When I look at your Enos Clark information >> closer, are you sure that Enos Clark - son of >> Nathaniel Clark 1794-1875 - and Susie Carey >> married? Enos was born ca. 1839; based >> upon the age of Susie's parents, she wasn't >> born until ca. 1894... a sizeable age difference. >> Further, Enos was not specifically mentioned in >> his father's 1875 Will, leading to the assumption >> that he had passed by 1875. Thus, Susie and >> this Enos Clark would never have met. >> NOTE: If this Enos Clark really is the son of >> Nathaniel Clark, I believe that his name may >> have been misconstrued in the records and is >> really Morris/Miers Clark who married Araminta >> Harmon. The information that I have collected >> to date seems to reflect that. Further research >> should uncover this mystery. >> Celeste Not sure if you've heard back from Betty & Ray yet on this one, but I'm thinking they might have gotten the Enos Clark / Susie Carey marriage info from me. I have this in my notes, going back to an interview with Mary Agnes Morris Cuyjet in August of 1991. Her paternal grandmother was Julia Clark Morris, b. 1843 (wife of Robert Morris, b. 1838), and Mary Agnes stated that she knew of two brothers of Julia: Wit Clark and Nathaniel Clark. My notes show that she gave the names of three children of Nathaniel: Enos (who m. Susie Carey), Hattie (who m. a Mosley) and David. I have no birthdates for any of them other than Julia and Robert. If Enos really was born in 1839, then Nathaniel would have had to have been substantially older than his sister Julia. Julia would have a nephew older than she was (certainly not impossible). Could there have been two Enos'? Also, I'm very intrigued that you show the parents of Nathaniel and Whittington to be Thomas Clark and Elizabeth Morris. There is a story that has been passed down in a couple branches of the descendants of this family that the mother of Julia Clark was thought of as a "witch" or a "heathen" and that she was an Indian who rode a horse bareback and that others were afraid of her. One day she was found dead in the woods, apparently having been thrown from the horse and having broken her back. If these are the same Nathaniel and Whittington who were the brothers of Julia Clark, then that would mean that the "heathen" Indian woman was Elizabeth Morris Clark. Do you have any further information about this??? How did you identify the parents of Nathaniel and Whittington? Thanks, John
> Esther John
son 1895 5 >> Annie John
son 1898 2 >> Franklin John
son 1900 >> 1/2 bro to Return [ * Harry Mosley 1886 14 >> " sis " [ Laura Mosley 1883 17 >> " bro " [ Parris Mosley 1888 12 But, I can now see that something else is mixed up.... I show that Return John
son was married to Esther Hughes (and had at least one child) prior to marrying Sarah Virginia Carter, and that Sarah later married (after Return) to Earl Jeremiah Ridgeway, Sr. and had at least 4 more children. So far, so good. However, I show the child of Return and first wife Esther to be "Franklin James John
son" (per Betty & Ray's excerpt above). And, as mentioned in my previous message, I show one of the 6 children of Return and 2nd wife Sarah to be James Franklyn "Frank" John
son. Surely there wouldn't be a Franklin James and James Franklyn as half-brothers to one another. Can anyone offer any clarification on this? Franklin James and James Franklyn must be the same person (esp. since both are listed as being born in 1900); is he the son of Esther or the son of Sarah?? From the census record quoted above, it looks like he must be a child of Sarah. Betty & Ray, can you comment upon the source of your post that "Franklin James" was the son of Return and Esther? As for there being two daughters named Mary in the same family (Mary Esther, who went by "Esther," and Mary Virginia), I'm not sure. To be honest, I hadn't even noticed that until you pointed it out. Hmm, in looking through my sources (the ones quoted above), everything seems to reference Esther as just Esther, with no Mary in front of it. I'm trying to find out why I had Mary as her first name...... Aha! Just found this, in a message from Betty & Ray Terry, dated 06 Sep 1999: >> Preston's attachment (Sarah.gif) says that >> James L. Carney and Mary Ester John
son had >> a daughter, Virginia R. Carney, who married >> Roland C. Carney. Your GEDCOM to us stated >> that Virginia's surname was Reed. Her obit says >> she was James Carney's daughter. Was she >> married priorly to Reed? Is Carney correct? >> Our notes: >> 1. GEDCOM file from John
Carter 3/98 >> (spiff@): Says name prior to marriage >> with Roland Carney was Virginia Reed. >> BUT see Note 2 -- >> 2. Obituary excerpts, seen at James Mosley's >> 9 May 1998: >> Virginia Carney born 2 Oct 1920, Cheswold, >> died 29 Jul 1997, Dover. >> Buried at Manship. Daughter of James L. >> Carney and Mary Esther John
son. >> Married 56 years to Roland C. Carney. >> 2 daughters: Joyce Luzader, Dover, Del >> Peggy Carney, Dover, Del >> 1 sister: Lillian Turner, Dover, Del >> 3 grandchildren, 5 greatgrandchildren. >> 3. SSDI: SSN 221-10-4582, 2 Oct 1920-29 Jul 1997 This obviously pointed out a contradiction, in showing Virginia as being the daughter of James L. Carney and Mary Esther John
son, instead of being the daughter of James Leslie Reed and (Mary) Esther John
son, as I had. So, I wrote to a cousin of mine in Cheswold after receiving that message, and this is what she replied with, on 07 Sep 1999: >> Virginia Lee (Reed) Carney, is Roland Carneys wife . >> Her parents were Leslie Reed, and Ester (John
son) Reed . >> They are both buried at Emmanuel . >> They were seperated for years. My Grandmother Margaret >> and Uncle Les dated for a peroid of time, when I was a child. >> Ester was a house keeper for Chief Charles Clark. So, the contradiction lies in where this James L. Carney fits in. Preston Sammons' file, as well as Virginia's obituary seen by Betty & Ray, both identify Esther as Mary Esther, and both say she was a daughter of James L. Carney, while other people who know the family say she was a daughter of James Leslie Reed. We definitely have a mystery here.... Thanks, John
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:40:15 -0400 From: "John
C. Carter" Subject: Re: Morris Clark and Elizabeth Clark, children of Nathaniel Clark On June 30th, I wrote (to Celeste): >> I'm very intrigued that you show the parents of >> Nathaniel and Whittington to be Thomas Clark >> and Elizabeth Morris. There is a story that has >> been passed down in a couple branches of the >> descendants of this family that the mother of >> Julia Clark was thought of as a "witch" or a >> "heathen" and that she was an Indian who rode >> a horse bareback and that others were afraid of >> her. One day she was found dead in the woods, >> apparently having been thrown from the horse and >> having broken her back. If these are the same >> Nathaniel and Whittington who were the brothers >> of Julia Clark, then that would mean that the >> "heathen" Indian woman was Elizabeth Morris >> Clark. >> Do you have any further information about >> this??? How did you identify the parents of >> Nathaniel and Whittington? Then, on July 2nd, Celeste replied: >> In July of 1999, you shared with me >> information obtained from Harry Muncy >> regarding the land bounty script >> records for Delaware. That information >> being... >> >> CLARK, Thomas, pri., p. 233. 1834-- >> only heirs: children: Whittenton, >> John
& Nathaniel Clark, Comfort Miller, >> Elizabeth Rigware, Lavina Harman: >> grandchildren: Nelly Morris, Nancy Cary, >> Robert Clark, Magee, Hetty & >> Whittenton John
son, Rebecca Miller." >> >> The entry clearly identifies the heirs >> for Thomas Clark. Note that if heirs >> are being mentioned Thomas Clark is >> most likely deceased. The year is 1834, >> and no Julia Clark is mentioned. Per my >> records, Julia was born 1843. It is >> my suspicion that Julia is a grandchild >> or great-grandchild of Thomas and >> Elizabeth Clark, not a daughter (perhaps >> a child of John
Clark as Whittington >> Clark died in 1836). Further, I have >> estimated the birth years of Thomas and >> Elizabeth to be about 1750ish based upon >> their year of marriage, 1773 at Lewes & >> Coolspring Church. Julia's parents have >> yet to be identified. Thanks, Celeste, for the clarification. You're right--I should have remembered the bounty land script record. And the facts & info you listed do indeed point toward Julia not being a sibling of this Whittington and Nathaniel. Perhaps once we identify who Julia's parents were, we may find another (younger) Whittington and Nathaniel as her siblings. Thanks again! John
John
C. Carter
-C-Carter/ Paternal surnames: Bailey, Carney, Carter/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston, Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor, Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Joy, Morgan, Morris, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Orem, Ridgeway, Wyatt Volunteer - Headstone Hunter ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 14 Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:11:31 -0400 From: "John
C. Carter" Subject: RE: more Manlove-Hickman stuff On July 3rd, Lee Bruce wrote: >> John
--Other family names involved in the Manlove line >> are: Clark, Clarke, John
son, Ridgely, Moore, Townsend. >> Do these names seem more famillliar? I'm pretty sure >> that somewhere there's a connection, but I'm hung up >> on Manlove Higman (Hickman) because I can't find >> anything for sure on him--no parents, sibling >> information--only that his daughter, Mary Elizabeth, >> married a Clendaniel in Chestertown, MD. >>
P.S.
Other names in that tree are: Carlisle, Polk, >> Hayes, Lockwood, Laws, Turner, Minors, Moore, Morine, >> Scharff, Knowles, Watson, Williams
Hi, Lee. Sorry, I'm not familiar with any of those names, being in connection with Manloves. Will keep an eye open, in case I come across anything. Good luck, John
John
C. Carter
-C-Carter/ Paternal surnames: Bailey, Carney, Carter/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston, Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor, Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Joy, Morgan, Morris, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Orem, Ridgeway, Wyatt Volunteer - Headstone Hunter ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 15 Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:16:34 -0400 From: "John
C. Carter" Subject: RE: Durham-Sammons info from July 4th
Hi, Rose. On July 4th you wrote: >> Hugh Durham & Angelica Songa/Durham >> >> Just to name a few: >> >> Sarah Durham md. Greensbury Ridgway - Raymond Flicker Ridgeway, >> grandparents, Urie's g-grand-mother. >> >> Kate Durham md. Enos Pierce - Lew Gray Squirrel Pierce - grandparents - >> Tina Pierce Fragoso - g-grand-mother >> >> Ella Durham md. Nehemiah Morris Sammons - Karen Mosley grandparents >> Will Mosley g-grandmother >> >> Annabelle Sammons md James "Jim" Grinnage >> Katherine "Kitty Greenage/Grinnage Clark - grandparents However, I think there are a couple of typos here, with the last two marriages above. Correct me if I'm wrong, but-- Ella Durham married William Garfield Sammons, not Nehemiah Morris Sammons. (Earlier in the same message, you had it listed correctly, but I just thought I would note this, in case anyone was confused by the seeming contradiction). Also, James "Jim" Greenage married Helen Sammons, not Annabelle Sammons, and they were Kitty's parents, not grandparents, right? (You also had that one listed correctly in the earlier part of the message). (Or was your intent to show another generation further back?) Please let me know if I've made a mistake. Thanks! John
John
C. Carter
-C-Carter/ Paternal surnames: Bailey, Carney, Carter/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston, Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor, Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Joy, Morgan, Morris, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Orem, Ridgeway, Wyatt Volunteer - Headstone Hunter ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 16 Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:19:01 -0400 From: "John
C. Carter" Subject: James "Jim" Greenage
Hi, everyone. Regarding the James "Jim" Greenage (1901-1974) who married Helen Sammons (1906-1970) (parents of Katherine "Kitty" Greenage Clark)-- Does anyone know his ancestry? Does it tie back to Benjamin Greenage & Rachel Miller? (I don't have dates for Benjamin & Rachel, but Rachel was the daughter of Debrix Miller (d. 1840) and Sarah Concealler, and Sarah was in turn the daughter of Elijah Concealler, Sr. (b. ca. 1762, d. 29 Dec 1801) and Hannah Durham (d. 29 Jun 1841). I show Benjamin & Rachel having the following children (no dates or spouses for any of them): Josiah Greenage James Greenage John
Greenage Washington Greenage Frances Greenage Ann Greenage Thanks! John
From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'EMpTieR1@'" Cc: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" , "'Unger, Debbie'" Subject: RE: Mitsawokett / Ray & Betty's tripDate: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:15:12 -0400
Hi, Ellen.
My name is John
Carter, and I am a distant cousin. Your parents gave me your email address in case anything came up in regard to the Mitsawokett list during their travels, and I'm wondering if you have the access/authority to grant system-permission to new members?
A cousin who has long been on the list, Debbie Pierce Unger, has changed her email address and is trying to re-join under her new address, but each "new" member must be approved by the List Managers. There is probably a pending notification in your parents' email Inbox. In the mean time I am forwarding the daily list digests to her, but if you have the capability to approve her, that would be great!
Her e-mail address is: deborahpunger@
Thanks!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Betty & Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]Sent:
Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:00 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
RE: Karen Elizabeth Hughes Mosley
Hi
John
,Our daughter has the details for accessing theMitsawokett web site for uploads - Ellen M. Terry Reichard EMpTieR1@B RDate: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:42:56 -0400 From: "John
C. Carter" Subject: Coker Lineage (Mosley and Clark)
On Saturday, June 23rd, Celeste wrote:>> Beedee Coker was the wife of Calvin Clark,>> the funeral director. Does anyone>> know who Beedee's parents were?>>>> Per Calvin's obituary, it reads as follows:>> "Surviving are his wife, Mrs. Laura Clark;>> a foster son, Frankford Coker of Washington,>> D.C.; two step-daughters, Mrs. Constance of>> Bessellieu of Frederica and Mrs. Barbara>> Jiggetts of Omaha, Neb.; a brother, Charles>> of Riverdale; five grandchildren and one>> great-grandchild.">>>> It is my understanding that Laura Clark is>> Laura Mosley, daughter of Angea Coker and>> Andrew Mosley. Who are the natural parents>> of Frankford Coker? Who are the parents of>> step-daughters Constance and Barbara?>>>> Celeste
Hi, Celeste.
I see that Lynn and Lorraine have already answered a couple of your questions.
They are correct. Albeda Coker was also my great-grandfather's sister, and Frankford is my great-uncle (my paternal grandmother's brother). My great-grandfather John
Clayton Coker died fairly young (2 months shy of his 31st birthday), leaving four young children (actually, the youngest wasn't born until a month after his death). It was difficult for my great-grandmother to care for all of them, and other family members helped to raise them.
You are also correct that Laura Mosley Clark was the daughter of Andrew Mosley and Angea Bell Coker. Incidentally, Angea Bell was the sister of Albeda (and my great-grandfather). So, after being married to Albeda, Calvin later married his former wife's niece, Laura.
As for Constance and Barbara, they are the daughters of Laura by her first husband, Thomas Alvin Mosley.
Hope this helps.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
Thanks!
John
From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Subject: RE: August tripDate: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 14:38:26 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Hope you are enjoying your vacation!
I have finalized my plans to be up in the MD/DE/NJ area in August. Here are the details:
Arrive in Baltimore at 4:45pm on Friday, August 10th.
Depart Baltimore at 5:55pm on Wednesday, August 22nd.
So, I will be up there not quite two weeks.
I will be picking up a rental car at BWI airport, and driving to the Bridgeton area to stay with my aunt and uncle. According to my map, it should only be about 115-120 miles or so.
So far, the only set-plans are for both Saturdays: my aunt & uncle have a big cookout every summer, and are tentatively planning that to be on Saturday the 11th. And Saturday the 18th is Debbie's naming ceremony date. (She's still trying to talk me into getting my name then, too. I am as of yet undecided).
It would really be great if I got to meet you while I'm up there. (I hope these dates don't interfere with your tentative Florida trip). (By the way, where in Florida would you be going?? Near Tampa Bay??) Anyway, since I arrive and leave from Baltimore, I would have an opportunity to see you then, but Debbie of course wouldn't be with me then. (She flies into Atlantic City on Thursday the 16th, and leaves via Atlantic City on Friday the 24th). So, I'm not sure if it might be better to arrange a meeting for all of us at some other date/place during the time that Debbie and I will both be up there. (Wonder if any others would be interested? Maybe we could all meet in Cheswold for dinner, lunch, discussions, cemetery-traipsing, or any-or-all of the above?)
Also, since my flight does not leave until approx. 6:00pm on Wed. the 22nd, I was playing with the thought of trying to drive into DC to go to the Library of Congress for the Coker journal we've discussed previously. Not sure if this is feasible....especially since I know nothing about driving/traffic in DC. Also, I have a feeling that if I venture into DC, I will become mesmerized by ALL of the stuff to do there, and end up regretting that I can't spend a week in the city in itself! I would want to see the African American Civil War Memorial for sure, not to mention every other library, museum, monument or site that pertains to American history!!!! I could be trapped there for months!
Anyway, let me know your thoughts on any of this....
Thanks, and take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Betty & Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]Sent:
Thursday, May 31, 2001 9:41 AMTo:
Carter John
Subject:
Meeting; Charlotte Sammons
Hi
John
,We'd love to meet you and Debbie if we canarrange a time and place. We may be spending a month in Florida around the time you mentioned. Nothing cast in stone now. We likely will forgetabout it to meet you. Let us know when your plans firm up.
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Tuesday, May 29, 2001 6:59 PMTo:
'bettyandrayterry@'Subject:
RE: Chopped liver
Hi, Ray & Betty.
< snip >
On another subject, there is a chance I may be visiting the area in August. Debbie Pierce Unger will be going to Bridgeton Aug 16-24, and will be participating in a naming ceremony with the Bridgeton Indian group on Aug 18th. (A cousin of hers will be giving her an Indian name). She is strenuously trying to talk me into getting a name as well, but I'm resisting, so far. Although the idea has a certain temptation of "pride of heritage" to it, it also feels hypocritical, or disrespectful to the type of people I know of as "full bloods" (from my college years, out west, when I had several Navajo friends). At any rate, I wouldn't mind going just to be in attendance for hers, and to visit family, and of course to traipse around in cemeteries!!! :-)
If I go, I would most likely fly on Southwest Airlines. (Not only my favorite airline, but also I need only one more trip with them to qualify for a free ticket). Since the closest they fly to New Jersey is Baltimore, I would undoubtedly fly to Baltimore, pick up a rental car, and then drive to Bridgeton to stay with my Aunt & Uncle (with trips to the surrounding area, including Cheswold, of course).
It would be great to meet you while I'm up that way, if possible.
John
From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Subject: William "Billy" Greenage / Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 22:56:12 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Pinky told me about the website, called ...
Her cousin William "Billy" Greenage passed away, and his obituary is currently posted there, along with a photo.
Take care,
John
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -, William G.William G. Greenage, a prominent local farmer and Chairman of the Caroline Soil Conservation District, died of complications from diabetes on Saturday, June 23, 2001 at Memorial Hospital at Easton. He was 66 years old. He was born January 7, 1935 in Cheswold, DE to Thomas Greenage and Annabelle Sammons Greenage.He began his farming career at the age of 13 working with Amish farmers in the Dover, DE area. His family moved to the Preston area in the early 1950's. When his family moved back to Dover, he remained in the Preston area, boarding with the Bailey family and working for C. Brooks Nagel. In the early 1960's, he began farming on his own. He married Joanne Meredith on January 26, 1963. In 1965, the family moved to Beechwood Farms in Preston, owned by Theodore and Helen Fletcher. He became a member of the Board of Supervisors at the Caroline Soil Conservation District in March of 1975. He was elected as Chairman of the Board on February 21, 1978 and retained that position until the present time. He was also a Director of the Maryland Association of Soil Conservation Districts. He was very dedicated to agriculture and soil and water conservation and strived to have a solid working relationship with landowners and the many associated programs. One of his many accomplishments during his tenure was organizing the 50th anniversary celebration held in 1991. He was very supportive of the Public Drainage Association in Caroline County and instrumental in obtaining funding for the ditches. He retired from farming in 1999 because of health reasons.He is survived by his wife, Joanne; one daughter, Claire Marie Bennett; one son, William Gordon Greenage, II; six grandchildren, Jonathan Ryan Noble, Samantha Renee Greenage, Warren Keith Bennett, Jr., William Matthew Bennett, Thomas Robert Greenage, and Michael Bannister Greenage, all from Preston, and one brother, John
Reggs Greenage of Dover, DE. His parents and a brother, Harold Thomas Greenage, preceded him in death.Funeral Services for him will be held on Friday, June 29, 2001 at 1pm at Framptom-Hawkins-Eskow Funeral Home in Federalsburg. Friends may visit at the funeral home on Thursday evening from 6- 9 p.m.The Reverend Denzil Cheek and David Nagel will officiate. Burial will be a Chestnut Grove Methodist Church in Federalsburg. Pallbearers will be William Greenage, II, David Nagel, Greg Russell, Michael Hubbard, Dawson Hubbard, R.J. Meredith, and Honorary pallbearers will be Tyler Horner and Wheatley Neal.Memorial Contributions can be made to Chestnut Grove Methodist Church, 5170 Long Swamp Road, Federalsburg, MD 21632.(06/23/01)From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Barbara Starr'" Cc: "'Unger, Debbie'" , "'Terry, Betty & Ray'"
Subject: RE: Margaret 'Maggie' CarneyDate: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 19:35:08 -0400
Hi, Barbara.
Replying to your other message as well.
I see what you mean by there being a problem with the dates on the Mitsawokett family history report (as accessed under "Descendants of Robert Munce").
Ray & Betty-- When you get a chance, can you please take a look at the dates referred to by Barbara in her message below? Thanks.
Barbara--as for the plausibility of the connection you propose.... I will have to defer to Debbie, to whom I've forwarded your message. She has the most knowledge of James E. H. "Porter" Durham and family. However, I believe Debbie has evidence (can't remember what it is at the moment) that the Margaret who was James E.H.'s mother was indeed the Margaret who was Benjamin Durham's daughter, not the Margaret you suggest in your message. The Margaret in your message was the daughter of Thomas Carney and Susan Munce/Sammons. (Susan's parents--Benjamin Sammons and Lydia Munce--appear not to have been married, i.e. "common law" spouses, and therefore some of the children took their father's Sammons name, and some took their mother's Munce name).
Hope this helps.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Barbara Starr [SMTP:bstarr@]Sent:
Saturday, June 23, 2001 2:55 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Margaret 'Maggie' Carney
Hi
John
,Cousin Barbara here again. I just wanted to share a few thoughts withyou regarding the mother of James E.H. Porter Durham.I believe it's possible that his mother was Margaret 'Maggie' Carney whomarried Charles Pritchett and Nehemiah Durham (is there a Sammons unionalso?). If you look at the family history report of Robert Munce thereare dates for her birth/marriage/etc. that could not possibly becorrect. She is listed as being born c. 1874, yet her first child withCharles Pritchett, Lizzie B., was born 1873. In addition, I believe hergranddaughter Harrietta Clark (dau. of Beulah Mae) is listed in the Anna& Isaac Norford 1900 census as Harriett A., b. Jun 1880. We've alwaysassumed Harriett(A) was a sister to George L & James H but if you readJoseph Romeo's posting (#3525) on the 1900 census, the 'S' (single)status is crossed out and 'M' is written over it. Is it possibleHarriett(a) was wife of James H., instead of sister?Also interesting is the Beulah/Demby connection - As I mentionedearlier, a Stephen A. Demby and Sarah ?, his wife, show up in theNorford household in the 1910 census.I'm probably way off on this, but maybe, just maybe......Oh the tangledwebs we weave!Regards,BarbaraFrom: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'bettyandrayterry@'" Subject: RE: Charlotte Sammons (Carty vs. Griggs)Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:28:48 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Sorry to be so late in replying to this, but I had not heard anything further on the Carty vs. Griggs mystery. The last I heard was the message from Pinky on April 28th, which said:"John
, that is what I have her my Aunt refere to Aunt Charolette mother as Carty."
I think I forwarded that one to you.
I will check with her again, to see if she can probe further into the mystery....
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Betty & Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]Sent:
Thursday, May 31, 2001 9:41 AMTo:
Carter John
Subject:
Meeting; Charlotte Sammons
Hi
John
,Anything more about the Carty-Griggsproblemette? Following is the e-mail trail and an added obit at theend.From: John
C.CarterTo: Terry, BettyRayDate: 4/28/01
Subj: Charlotte (Carty?)(Griggs?) Sammons...Charlotte was Pinky Coker's aunt (wife ofPinky's mother's brother Elmer).(Also, sister-in-law of Corrine SammonsChristiansen)....noticed that the obit says "nee Griggs."I thought she was supposed to bea Carty?2001, age 88 yrs. Wife of the late Elmer (Slim) Sammons. Survived by2daughters-Edna E. Askew of Lindenwold, Betty J. Swift of Clarksboro,15grandchildren, 24 great grandchildren, and 2 great-greatgrandchildren.Relatives and friends may call Tuesday from 10am to 11am atthe SMITHFUNERAL HOME, 47 Main St., Mantua. Funeral Service will be Tuesday11am atthe funeral home. Burial will be in the Eglington Cemetery.Contributionsmay be made to St. John
of God Community Services, 532 DelseaDr.,WestvilleGrove, NJ 08093 or the charity of donor's choice.CHARLOTTE G. SAMMONS g__sammons.html2001 Gloucester County Times. 04/21/01Charlotte G. Sammons (nee Griggs), 88, of Clarksboro died Friday in theShadyLane Home, Clarksboro.Born and raised in Gibbstown, she lived inClarksboro since January.She was a homemaker.Mrs. Sammons attended Clonmell United Methodist Church in Gibbstown.She was a member of the Swedesboro Order of the Eastern Star.She was a member of the Gibbstown Fire Co. Auxiliary, a past president oftheGibbstown Senior Citizens and belonged to the Anthony Calista VeteransofForeign Wars Post.Surviving are two daughters, Edna E. Askew of Lindenwold and Betty J.Swift of Clarksboro; 15 grandchildren; 24 great-grandchildren; andtwo great-great-grandchildren.Services will be 11 a.m. Tuesday in the Smith Funeral Home, 47 MainSt., Mantua, where friends may call after 10 a.m. Burial will be inEglington Cemetery, Clarksboro.Contributions may be made to St. John
of God Community Services, 532Delsea Drive, Westville Grove, NJ 08093; or to a charity of the donor'schoice.-------------------------------------------------- G. (nee Griggs) of Clarksboro formerly of Gibbstown. On Apr. 20,Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:22:55 -0400 From: "John
C. Carter" Subject: RE: John
son, Mosley and Reed
On July 2nd, Celeste wrote:>> Parents of Sarah V. Carter...>> would her mother, Lina Mosley be the>> daughter of John
W. Mosley and wife>> Sarah (maiden name unknown).>> Are you sure that Return and Sarah>> had two daughters named Mary?>> That is somewhat curious.
Hi, Celeste.
Sorry this is a few days late.
Regarding Lina Mosley Carter, I do not have anything on who her parents were. However, I see in the Family Histories on the Mitsawokett site, that Betty & Ray do indeed show a daughter Lina under John
& Sarah Mosley. However, they do not have a spouse connected to this Lina. They also show her as b. ca. 1845 (according to the 1850 census), whereas the Lina who was George T. Carty/Carter's wife was born ca. 1836, according to the 1860 census, when she was listed as age 24, enumerated with George T., age 35. (And, even if she "fibbed" her age as being older than she was, they are also enumerated with children Emma, age 4, and William, age 3. So, if she was the same Lina and really only 15 in 1860, then would she have had a daughter at age 11? Probably not. Looks like two different Lina Mosley's).
I obtained the information on the children of Return John
son and Sarah Virginia Carter from the following sources:
From Betty & Ray Terry, message [off list] dated 27 Aug 1999:
(the CAPs were there to differentiate between other interspersed parts of the conversation, between Chuck Seeney and myself):>> SARAH VIRGINIA CARTER M 1) RETURN JOHN
SON>> AND HAD AT LEAST ESTHER (m REED),>> WILLIS AND MARY VIRGINIA (m MORGAN);>> THEN SHE m 2) EARL JEREMIAH RIDGEWAY.>> WE SHOW ALSO THAT RETURN JOHN
SON>> m ESTHER HUGHES AND HAD AT LEAST A SON,>> FRANKLIN JAMES JOHN
SON, B 1900.>> THERE MUST HAVE BEEN A DIVORCE AS EARL'S>> CHILDREN WITH SARAH WERE BORN AFTER 1900.
Other info came in a message from Jean Foster, dated 25 Jan 2000:>> East Dover Hundred>> 1900 Census Return John
son 1875 (so age 25)>> Sarah John
son 1875 " " ">> Esther John
son 1895 5>> Annie John
son 1898 2>> Franklin John
son 1900>> 1/2 bro to Return [ * Harry Mosley 1886 14>> " sis " [ Laura Mosley 1883 17>> " bro " [ Parris Mosley 1888 12
But, I can now see that something else is mixed up.... I show that Return John
son was married to Esther Hughes (and had at least one child) prior to marrying Sarah Virginia Carter, and that Sarah later married (after Return) to Earl Jeremiah Ridgeway, Sr. and had at least 4 more children.
So far, so good. However, I show the child of Return and first wife Esther to be "Franklin James John
son" (per Betty & Ray's excerpt above). And, as mentioned in my previous message, I show one of the 6 children of Return and 2nd wife Sarah to be James Franklyn "Frank" John
son. Surely there wouldn't be a Franklin James and James Franklyn as half-brothers to one another.
Can anyone offer any clarification on this? Franklin James and James Franklyn must be the same person (esp. since both are listed as being born in 1900); is he the son of Esther or the son of Sarah?? From the census record quoted above, it looks like he must be a child of Sarah.
Betty & Ray, can you comment upon the source of your post that "Franklin James" was the son of Return and Esther?
As for there being two daughters named Mary in the same family (Mary Esther, who went by "Esther," and Mary Virginia), I'm not sure. To be honest, I hadn't even noticed that until you pointed it out. Hmm, in looking through my sources (the ones quoted above), everything seems to reference Esther as just Esther, with no Mary in front of it. I'm trying to find out why I had Mary as her first name......
Aha! Just found this, in a message from Betty & Ray Terry, dated 06 Sep 1999:>> Preston's attachment (Sarah.gif) says that>> James L. Carney and Mary Ester John
son had>> a daughter, Virginia R. Carney, who married>> Roland C. Carney. Your GEDCOM to us stated>> that Virginia's surname was Reed. Her obit says>> she was James Carney's daughter. Was she>> married priorly to Reed? Is Carney correct?>> Our notes:>> 1. GEDCOM file from John
Carter 3/98>> (spiff@): Says name prior to marriage>> with Roland Carney was Virginia Reed.>> BUT see Note 2 -->> 2. Obituary excerpts, seen at James Mosley's>> 9 May 1998:>> Virginia Carney born 2 Oct 1920, Cheswold,>> died 29 Jul 1997, Dover.>> Buried at Manship. Daughter of James L.>> Carney and Mary Esther John
son.>> Married 56 years to Roland C. Carney.>> 2 daughters: Joyce Luzader, Dover, Del>> Peggy Carney, Dover, Del>> 1 sister: Lillian Turner, Dover, Del>> 3 grandchildren, 5 greatgrandchildren.>> 3. SSDI: SSN 221-10-4582, 2 Oct 1920-29 Jul 1997
This obviously pointed out a contradiction, in showing Virginia as being the daughter of James L. Carney and Mary Esther John
son, instead of being the daughter of James Leslie Reed and (Mary) Esther John
son, as I had. So, I wrote to a cousin of mine in Cheswold after receiving that message, and this is what she replied with, on 07 Sep 1999:>> Virginia Lee (Reed) Carney, is Roland Carneys wife .>> Her parents were Leslie Reed, and Ester (John
son) Reed .>> They are both buried at Emmanuel .>> They were seperated for years. My Grandmother Margaret>> and Uncle Les dated for a peroid of time, when I was a child.>> Ester was a house keeper for Chief Charles Clark.
So, the contradiction lies in where this James L. Carney fits in. Preston Sammons' file, as well as Virginia's obituary seen by Betty & Ray, both identify Esther as Mary Esther, and both say she was a daughter of James L. Carney, while other people who know the family say she was a daughter of James Leslie Reed.
We definitely have a mystery here....
Thanks,
John
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 19:40:15 -0400 From: "John
C. Carter" Subject: Re: Morris Clark and Elizabeth Clark, children of Nathaniel Clark
On June 30th, I wrote (to Celeste):>> I'm very intrigued that you show the parents of>> Nathaniel and Whittington to be Thomas Clark>> and Elizabeth Morris. There is a story that has>> been passed down in a couple branches of the>> descendants of this family that the mother of>> Julia Clark was thought of as a "witch" or a>> "heathen" and that she was an Indian who rode>> a horse bareback and that others were afraid of>> her. One day she was found dead in the woods,>> apparently having been thrown from the horse and>> having broken her back. If these are the same>> Nathaniel and Whittington who were the brothers>> of Julia Clark, then that would mean that the>> "heathen" Indian woman was Elizabeth Morris>> Clark.>> Do you have any further information about>> this??? How did you identify the parents of>> Nathaniel and Whittington?
Then, on July 2nd, Celeste replied:>> In July of 1999, you shared with me>> information obtained from Harry Muncy>> regarding the land bounty script>> records for Delaware. That information>> being...>>>> CLARK, Thomas, pri., p. 233. 1834-->> only heirs: children: Whittenton,>> John
& Nathaniel Clark, Comfort Miller,>> Elizabeth Rigware, Lavina Harman:>> grandchildren: Nelly Morris, Nancy Cary,>> Robert Clark, Magee, Hetty &>> Whittenton John
son, Rebecca Miller.">>>> The entry clearly identifies the heirs>> for Thomas Clark. Note that if heirs>> are being mentioned Thomas Clark is>> most likely deceased. The year is 1834,>> and no Julia Clark is mentioned. Per my>> records, Julia was born 1843. It is>> my suspicion that Julia is a grandchild>> or great-grandchild of Thomas and>> Elizabeth Clark, not a daughter (perhaps>> a child of John
Clark as Whittington>> Clark died in 1836). Further, I have>> estimated the birth years of Thomas and>> Elizabeth to be about 1750ish based upon>> their year of marriage, 1773 at Lewes &>> Coolspring Church. Julia's parents have>> yet to be identified.
Thanks, Celeste, for the clarification.
You're right--I should have remembered the bounty land script record. And the facts & info you listed do indeed point toward Julia not being a sibling of this Whittington and Nathaniel. Perhaps once we identify who Julia's parents were, we may find another (younger) Whittington and Nathaniel as her siblings.
Thanks again!
John
John
C. Carter
-C-Carter/Paternal surnames: Bailey, Carney, Carter/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston, Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor, Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Joy, Morgan, Morris, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Orem, Ridgeway, WyattVolunteer - Headstone Hunter: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 20:11:31 -0400 From: "John
C. Carter" Subject: RE: more Manlove-Hickman stuff
On July 3rd, Lee Bruce wrote:>> John
--Other family names involved in the Manlove line>> are: Clark, Clarke, John
son, Ridgely, Moore, Townsend.>> Do these names seem more famillliar? I'm pretty sure>> that somewhere there's a connection, but I'm hung up>> on Manlove Higman (Hickman) because I can't find>> anything for sure on him--no parents, sibling>> information--only that his daughter, Mary Elizabeth,>> married a Clendaniel in Chestertown, MD.>>
P.S.
Other names in that tree are: Carlisle, Polk,>> Hayes, Lockwood, Laws, Turner, Minors, Moore, Morine,>> Scharff, Knowles, Watson, Williams
Hi, Lee.
Sorry, I'm not familiar with any of those names, being in connection with Manloves.
Will keep an eye open, in case I come across anything.
Good luck,
John
John
C. Carter
-C-Carter/Paternal surnames: Bailey, Carney, Carter/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston, Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor, Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Joy, Morgan, Morris, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Orem, Ridgeway, WyattVolunteer - Headstone Hunter: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:16:34 -0400 From: "John
C. Carter" Subject: RE: Durham-Sammons info from July 4th
Hi, Rose.
On July 4th you wrote:>> Hugh Durham & Angelica Songa/Durham>>>> Just to name a few:>>>> Sarah Durham md. Greensbury Ridgway - Raymond Flicker Ridgeway,>> grandparents, Urie's g-grand-mother.>>>> Kate Durham md. Enos Pierce - Lew Gray Squirrel Pierce - grandparents ->> Tina Pierce Fragoso - g-grand-mother>>>> Ella Durham md. Nehemiah Morris Sammons - Karen Mosley grandparents>> Will Mosley g-grandmother>>>> Annabelle Sammons md James "Jim" Grinnage>> Katherine "Kitty Greenage/Grinnage Clark - grandparents
However, I think there are a couple of typos here, with the last two marriages above.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but--
Ella Durham married William Garfield Sammons, not Nehemiah Morris Sammons. (Earlier in the same message, you had it listed correctly, but I just thought I would note this, in case anyone was confused by the seeming contradiction).
Also, James "Jim" Greenage married Helen Sammons, not Annabelle Sammons, and they were Kitty's parents, not grandparents, right? (You also had that one listed correctly in the earlier part of the message). (Or was your intent to show another generation further back?)
Please let me know if I've made a mistake.
Thanks!
John
John
C. Carter
-C-Carter/Paternal surnames: Bailey, Carney, Carter/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston, Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor, Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Joy, Morgan, Morris, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Orem, Ridgeway, WyattVolunteer - Headstone Hunter: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 23:19:01 -0400 From: "John
C. Carter" Subject: James "Jim" Greenage
Hi, everyone.
Regarding the James "Jim" Greenage (1901-1974) who married Helen Sammons (1906-1970) (parents of Katherine "Kitty" Greenage Clark)--
Does anyone know his ancestry? Does it tie back to Benjamin Greenage & Rachel Miller?
(I don't have dates for Benjamin & Rachel, but Rachel was the daughter of Debrix Miller (d. 1840) and Sarah Concealler, and Sarah was in turn the daughter of Elijah Concealler, Sr. (b. ca. 1762, d. 29 Dec 1801) and Hannah Durham (d. 29 Jun 1841).
I show Benjamin & Rachel having the following children (no dates or spouses for any of them):
Josiah Greenage
James Greenage
John
Greenage
Washington Greenage
Frances Greenage
Ann Greenage
Thanks!
John
From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Subject: Font / Line spacing problemDate: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 07:07:12 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Regarding your font-spacing problem, I'm going to play around with my system at work today (if I have time! Been off for over a week & will have catch-up work!) and will see if there's a setting somewhere in regard to line-spacing. All your messages still come out with lines spaced really far apart. (Good example in this morning's Mitsawokett digest (Message 9).
John
From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Cc: "'Unger, Debbie'" Subject: Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photosDate: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 23:50:29 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Debbie and I spoke last night, and she has been corresponding with a fellow cousin about a couple of the photos listed on the Mitsawokett website, and it seems there is some confusion.
On the "M" page, there is a listing for "Angelica Songo Munce." Who is this? When you click on the link, it takes us to one of Lynn's pages, where there are several listings, one of which is for "Angelica Munce." However, this is Angelica Munce Miller, wife of George Miller. I don't recall ever hearing of an Angelica Songo Munce. There was an Angelica Songo DURHAM, wife of Hewitt "Hughy" Durham, but I don't know of any Angelica Songo Munce. The photo shown when you follow the subsequent link on Lynn's page is of Angelica Munce Miller, with her brother James H. Muncey and his wife Hester Annie Cork Muncey.
Debbie: On the phone last night you mentioned another bit of confusion, having to do with Angelina Munce Dean, sister of Angelica Munce Miller. However, I cannot find what we discussed. I did notice that if you go to the "D" page of the Mitsawokett photos, there is a listing for "Angelina Munce Dean." This link takes you to the same Lynn-page as when clicking from the Mitsawokett "M" page on "Angelina Munce (Dean)." She is listed once alphabetically by her maiden name, and once by her married name, but both take you to Lynn's page, which has a secondary link for "Angelina Munce." The photo displayed is correct. This is the tin-type photo that I gave Harry Muncey, which I received with the Cott material from Michigan back in the 1970's.
Is what you're saying: that this photo is listed somewhere else, but with someone else's name? If so, what name?
Thanks,
John
From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'bettyandrayterry@'" , "wolfwalkswithher@" , "lfreida20@" , "RWahoor@" , "'LFREIDA15@'" Subject: RE: Beulah Mae Pritchett's childrenDate: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 15:07:54 -0400
Hi, all.
Had some extra time today, and took a look at this info.
Had a couple of questions:1. Is the Arnetta Clark below (dau. of James Clark and Beulah Pritchett) the same as the Arnetta Mae Clark (13 Jul 1914 - 03 Mar 1988) who married William Atwood Carter?2. Rose's message from Jan 9, 2000 said that Beulah was a common-law spouse with Harry Sparks Gould and had 3 children by him: Fanny Corine Clark, Charles Clark, and Melissa Clark. Then, her message further down, from Nov 15, 1999 states "Correction to be made on Beulah Pritchett she was married to #1. James Clark, #2. Harry Gould." So, if Fanny, Charles and Melissa were the children of Harry Gould, and if he was indeed married to Beulah, shouldn't those 3 children have the last name of Gould, not Clark?3. Who are the parents of the Wilson Durham who was the 2nd husband of Pauline Clark?
Thanks!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
r terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]Sent:
Wednesday, March 14, 2001 10:14 AMTo:
; wolfwalkswithher@; lfreida20@; RWahoor@Cc:
bettyandrayterrySubject:
Beulah Mae Pritchett's children
Hi
all,Here are some notes we have for Beulah Mae Pritchett. There isdisagreement as to her children's fathers. We will probably have to waituntil an interested soul looks up the birth and death records to bereasonably sure.
Subj: Re: PEARL S. GOULD WARFLE datesDate: 01/09/2000From: RWahoorHarry Sparks Gould (common-law marriage) to Beulah PritchettBeulah Pritchett was married 1st. to : James Clark, their (3)children wereAdeline ClarkRonald ClarkArnetta ClarkBeulah then live with a ___ Demby, (also common-law). They had (2)children: Norman Vernon "Sheek" Clark - ( he also went with the last name Frame when he died.) Henrietta Clark m. Robert John
sonBeulah then lived with Harry Sparks Gould, they had (3) children:Fanny Corine Clark - m. 1st. Thomas Morris (No Children), CL/md.Slyvester Wright (they had Bernetta) , 2nd. Eldon Wesley ( No Children)Charles Clark - m. (Was married to 2 different women, had two sets oftwins, lived in Somerset, N.J. when he died. Never fooled around with thefamily.) This information was told to me by Bernetta Brown, Fanny'sdaughter. Charles was her mother's brother.Melissa Clark m. Santino Dominick Bosco(Melissa is living in California present.)Then last Beulah had another common law marriage with George "Pop" Sanderlin(Pop was white) Their children:Pauline Clark md. 1st. Herbert Mosley Ridgeway, 2nd. Wilson DurhamDonald Clark md. 1st. Connie __?____(she was white) 2nd. Arlene Cuff (dau. of Howard Cuff & Ivanette Mosley) (Arlene drove a cab for her mother's cab company,she was attacked, robbed and killed.)From: Date: Mon Nov 15, 1999 8:14pmSubject: Re: Wright FamilyCorrection to be made on Beulah Pritchett she was married to #1. JamesClark,#2. Harry Gould. There were also children by ? Demby and George Sanderlin.She was only married twice.Bernetta's mother Fanny "Corine" Clark was md. #1. Tommy Morris fromMillsboro, then Eldon Wesley son of Anna (nee Hall) Wesley.From: G.D.wolfwalkswithher R.P.Wright-Morris [SMTP:wolfwalkswithher@]Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001Subject: more info...The children of Beuhlah and James Clark are:ArnettaPaulineCorrineMilissaHarriettaDonald G.RonaldRobertVernon (Sheik)George (not sure if this was a son. On a note with the next two names.)Bubbie-Whitey (I do not know if these are two seperate people. I have a note stuck in my book with it like this. I guess I forgot aboutit, and never checked into what it was.)Beulah had over twenty some children altogether. Most died. There may bemore to add to this list of the ones that made it, these are all I knowright now.From:
wolfwalkswithher / [SMTP:wolfwalkswithher@]Sent:
Tuesday, July 03, 2001 2:14 AMTo:
John
C. CarterSubject:
Re: Beulah Mae Pritchett's children
Hi
John
,Yes to #1#2 My grandmother was only legally married to James Clark as far as I am aware. This coming from family members I have spoke to about this. I have my mother's birth and death records, but I have miss placed them along with alot of other information, including her picture given to me by my sister. I really do not think I misplaced them, as for all my life, things seem to be hide from me concerning my birth mother. I do know that her maiden name was Clark. If James was not her father, the birth record does not show otherwise. Then again, back in those days you could not give a child the fathers name unless you were married to him. I know full well of this matter, as that is what happen to me. I am the daughter of Pauline Clark Ridgeway and Harry C Wright,Sr. My birth name is Ridgeway because she was married to a Ridgeway. Even though my birth father was sent to jail for not paying child support for me. So all I can say is someone would have had to have been there at the time to know who was who's father for sure.#3 I do not know who Wilson Durham,Sr's., parents are.,DollyFrom: "Betty & Ray Terry" To: "JACKLYN001@" , "deborahpunger@" , "Heritage49@" , "nanticoke9@" , "Heite, Ned" , "spiff@" Cc: "Betty & Ray Terry" Subject: Reporters & August 20Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 2:1:54 -0400Thanks, John
, for your usual very lucent cogent comments. Just a reminder--a reporter, J.L. Miller, remains a member of the Mitsawokett mailing list. Reporter Joyce asked for proofs of lineage, but looking at our notes we find most of it is contained in e-mails. Perhaps that is one project we could undertake August 20 at the Archives--look up some of the birth-marriage-death records of the Clarks. That is, IF we go to the Archives. What has been decided upon? We will be in town Sunday eve, ready to go Monday morning. We include Joyce's message to us, as follows --
Hi, Betty Ray Terry.thank you for your e-mail. I'm not certain I need a "quote" fromyou, but what I really need is to verify the genealogicial information thatNed forwarded to me.If you researched that and wrote it, can you think of a way to helpme document it -- without some kind of proof that it is accurate, I won'tbe able to use it to refute the claim that the Indians from Cheswold arenot related directly to the Indians of Millsboro -- which seems to be thecrux of the dispute of Ned's research. Thank you for any help when the time comes to use this material.I don't need to interview you for quotes, necessarily, but I do need todocument, authenticate, prove -- whatever -- the data I receive on any sideof this issue.Again, thanks. Ask Ned, if you have doubts, but I have a reputation as a person who doesnot quote people when they ask not to be quoted. Of course, there are times when I wish they would agree to be quoted! Butthat is a different matter from what I need on this genealogy. I pride myself on doing the best, most accurate work I can do and on beingsomeone that people will contact AFTER a story has been published. ----- Original Message ----- From: John
C. Carter To: Heite, Ned ;nanticoke9@ ;Heritage49@ ;deborahpunger@ ;JACKLYN001@ ;bettyandrayterry@ Sent: 8/8/01 10:08:33 PM Subject: RE: publicity
Hi, all.(I removed Joyce from this distribution, as I plan to respond to her separately). (She had also written me a separate email).Like Betty Ray, I am very leery of making any quotes to the media at this point. I have stepped on toes in the past (and may have again last week with my letter) and don't want to take the chance of upsetting anyone in the Bridgeton group any further until I'm sure of how the leadership stands. We've heard virtually nothing from them. Has anyone received any communication from Rose, Lorraine, or Mark Gould?? What are their thoughts on what we're planning? I plan to see both Rose and Lorraine in person soon. Lorraine will be at my Aunt's in Bridgeton this Saturday and I will see her there.I'm just very cautious of making too many waves, in light of the fact that Debbie and I will be participating in a naming ceremony in Bridgeton on the 18th, and I'm already paranoid that we may be viewed as "outsiders." Debbie has been doing her best to allay my fears, but they still exist, nonetheless.However, I also understand the need for the truth, and for Ned's work to be supported in this time of controversy. I want to be able to do whatever I can to support the truth, and for the Bloomsbury report to prevail over the Clarks' nonsense. I just hope this can wait until after I can speak to the Bridgeton leadership and get first-hand assurance of their views. My letter to the governor, etc, was CC'd to Rose, Lorraine and Mark, but I have not heard anything back from them.From Ned's comments and others here in our core group, it seems clear that Dennis Coker is behind our effort, but I'm curious about the Bridgeton group.I stand behind my letter, and will support our cause in any meeting we may have with government representatives on the 20th, but being quoted in the media is a little scary right now....Does this make sense??Or am I wimping out??John
P.S.
I think I'll write a quick message to some of the Bridgeton folks right now, and see if I can get some opinions. My flight is on Friday, so I'm not sure if I'll get any responses in time. However, I should be able to access my email from my Aunt's computer in Bridgeton; just not sure how frequent.
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@ ]Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 8:00 PMTo: Spiff@; JACKLYN001@; deborahpunger@; Heritage49@; nanticoke9@; Ned HeiteCc: joyce.mullins@Subject: RE: publicity We do not wish to be quoted in a newspaper!We are trying to make friends, not enemies. We will save that pleasure for another day! If we can help any of you with data for quotes pleaselet us know.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ned Heite [SMTP:ned@ ]Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 7:38 AMTo: Spiff@; JACKLYN001@; bettyandrayterry@; deborahpunger@; Heritage49@; nanticoke9@ Cc: joyce.mullins@Subject: publicityI have been copying Joyce Mullins of the Dover Post, a weeklynewspaper in Dover. Joyce needs direct correspondence to her, notcopies of emails, summarizing the current situation. I have alreadyforwarded to her John
's letter to the Governor and Betty and Ray'sgenealogy of Charlie. She needs to get quotable stuff, addresseddirectly to her.One of our enemies is silence. We need to get in touch with the pressand tell them about all these complicated issues. Please write toJoyce with as much background information as you can. Remember that anything you send Joyce is potentially quotable, so becolorful, concise, and documentable.--****************************************** Ned Heite(Ned@ ) *****************From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" , "'Unger, Debbie Pierce'" , "'Jackson, Lynn'" , "'Schroeder, Evelyn'" , "'Carter, Jim & Susan'" , "'Hicks, David'" To: "'Hardcastle, Tom'" , "'mikecast@web.de'"
, "'Rootscolumn@'" Subject: RE: Molecular GenealogyDate: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 17:59:48 -0400
Hi, all.
Still no results from BYU on the genetic testing, but it seems they're getting close! Below is the latest email I received from them.
Will keep you posted.
(I leave tomorrow for 12 days in NJ, but hope to be able to access my email while up there).
Take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Diahan Southard [SMTP:diahan_southard@byu.edu]Sent:
Wednesday, August 08, 2001 1:05 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
RE: Checking inJohn
,We are in the final stages of writing your report and getting it out toyou. Soon.Diahan
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:23 PMTo:
'Rootscolumn@'; 'Unger, Debbie'; 'Terry, Betty & Ray'; 'Jackson, Lynn'; 'Schroeder, Evelyn'Cc:
'Carter, Jim & Susan'; 'Hardcastle, Tom'; 'Hicks, David'Subject:
RE: Molecular Genealogy
Hello, all.
I realized it's been a while since I'd communicated with some of you regarding the DNA testing I was undergoing with my fifth-cousin Tom, my brother Jim, and my first-cousin David, in order to substantiate the a link between the Carter and Hardcastle families.
The word is: No results yet.
I sent the BYU representative an inquiry on May 11th and heard back from her on the 14th that the analysis had begun and should be completed within about 3 weeks. She said she would notify me when they "are done and have started compiling the data." Not sure if that means there's another step (compiling) to be done after the "analysis," but hopefully there will be some results in the near future.
I will keep you posted.
Thanks!
John
From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'bettyandrayterry@'" Subject: RE: Photo: Rebecca Cott RidgewayDate: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 22:14:51 -0400
Hi, Betty & Ray.
WOW, this attachment must have been HUGE. I tried to access my messages this morning, but it kept failing because of this message. Finally got them to download from my service provider tonight.
Anyway, yes, as far as I've been told, both are Rebecca Cott Ridgeway. I agree that they look different, but have always attributed it to the photos having been taken at different points in her life.
I'm assuming she got the photos from my website, or perhaps I sent them to her a while back. I have the originals of both.
My father's cousin Pauline B. Mosley Durham Mercado (who just passed away this last Saturday) gave me the clearer one a few years ago. She labelled the back of the photo with "Rebecca Cott Ridgeway, my great-grandmother." Although Pauline was only 1 year old when Rebecca died (in 1913), she was the oldest grandchild of Sarah Catherine Ridgeway Carter, Rebecca's daughter, and therefore the most likely of all the grandchildren to have knowledge of their ancestors.
The more-faded photo was given to me by a couple of years ago by Katherine E. Newlin Thomas, daughter of my great-aunt Agnes L. Carter Newlin. Both Katherine and Pauline are first cousins of my father. Anyway, the photo had belonged to Aunt Agnes, and after she passed away (in 1991) it went to Katherine. On the back is written "Rebecca Cott Ridgeway, my grandmother," and I recognize the writing as Agnes', as she and I corresponded for many years. Agnes was 12 when Rebecca passed away.
So, they both come from people who were well within the realm to be certain of the identities, even though the photos look different.
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Betty & Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]Sent:
Wednesday, August 01, 2001 2:21 AMTo:
Carter John
Cc:
Betty & Ray TerrySubject:
FW: Photo: Rebecca Cott Ridgeway
Hi
John
,Linda Harmon sent the attached photos.Please take a look at them. Are they both really Rebecca CottRidgeway? They appear to be of two different women.Thanks!B R----- Original Message -----From:To: BettyandRayTerry@Sent: 7/12/01 4:34:04 PMSubject: Photo: Rebecca Cott Ridgeway24 or 04 Aug. 1843 - 15 May 1913daughter of John
D. Cott Sarah Ann Deanwife of Cornelius RidgewayPhoto copy for me from John
Carter, also William Edgar Ridgeway, Sr.---------------------------------------------------------------Betty Ray TerryFrom: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'bettyandrayterry@'" , Heite Ned , Unger Deborah , Jackson Lynn , Marshall Celeste , Marshall Sandy Subject: RE: August 20 meeting questionsDate: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 22:42:52 -0400
Hi, all.
Thanks for the re-cap, Ray & Betty!
I was a little confused by the last paragraph, trying to figure out which part was Sandy's and which part (if any?) was Ray & Betty's--I think yours was the part that began at "We say to the group"...
Anyway, not important.
Here are my comments:
1. I'm certainly willing to bring whatever food and drink I can. However, since I will be staying as a guest in the Bridgeton area, I'm not really in a position to cook/make anything. But I can always bring sandwich material, bucket of chicken, etc, as well as any drinks.
2. I agree that we need to answer the question: who are we inviting? Is everyone comfortable with inviting many, many, many? That's fine with me. I'd love to meet cousin Dennis Coker, for sure! What about others among the Bridgeton group? Rose/"Sweetsie"? Lorraine? Etc? Shall we send an invite to the list?
3. When you (or Sandy) wrote "until the gov. officially arrives," does this mean the Governor (or "government" official) is actually expected to attend our function? Rather than us go to the capitol? Not sure what that comment meant.... I saw the other message from Ned today, with Debra Allen stating that Sec. Howard is out of state. For how long? I'm confused as to whether we already have a government representative coming to the function at Ned's....
4. (I plan to type a response to Ned's message right after I send this one....)
5. Who else do we have in the group who is a member of the NIA (Nanticoke Indian Association)? Lynn Jackson is. (Lynn: Are you coming to the gathering? Hope so!). Sandy & Celeste--are you members of the NIA? Who else on Mitsawokett?
Well, I guess that's all for now. I'm sorry I don't have more answers to questions such as time, how many people, etc, but I am out-of-it, all the way down here in Florida (Debbie, too), and am not really in a position to make decisions about such things. I'll go with the flow, but am certainly eager for all the things we've discussed.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Betty & Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]Sent:
Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:35 PMTo:
Heite Ned ; Carter John
; Unger Deborah; Jackson Lynn; Marshall Celeste; Marshall SandySubject:
August 20 meeting questionsNed said:Someone suggested that our impending congregationof Mitsawoketteersmight be the occasion for a confrontation. I am alittle gun-shy, butI will pass along the idea. How about somebodyarranging a meetingwith Secretary Hayward or Governor Minner, to tryto convince thepoliticians that the Bloomsbury report will notadversely affect theNative American people of Delaware.andAs for August 20: It's not my show, so I willmerely play the part oflandlord in this gathering. We could easilyaccommodate about a dozenfolks with room to spare. I still have the32-foot tent I bought forthe Bloomsbury dig, which we will erected withinthe next few days.Sandy said:OK folks, we need to make decisions. If we allagree that we should meet witha governmental official on the 20th, we needto be making moves for anappointment. Top officials have busy schedules. Iwould prefer to meet withHayward. I think he needs the perspective ofanother Nanticoke Indian, onethat can give him the facts of life in IndianCountry. Thus I need all of youto respond to me with your opinions ASAP. Ifwe are going this route, I wouldprefer an afternoon meeting with Hayward.andBasically, I'll be the spokesperson, if that's okwith others, but we needrepresentation from the Nanticokes the LenapeTribe to give the appearancethat the tribal people are togetherdisapprove of the Nanticoke Chiefsposition on the Report. Now I intend tobe very impressive with this point.He isn't going to want to see the Clarkswhen I finish with it....OK, your emailsuggests we are all supposed to put up for vitals. Let me knowwhatelse?Betty get this out to the rest of the folk = in a hurray. You are the onlyone responding = I'm going to be out of the nation soon. Decisions need to bemade now. ------We say to the group -- 1. Who will bring what kind what quantity of food drink? 2. What time are we meeting? Ned said the tent will already be up so we suppose 11-12 a.m. on August 20 would be OK to socialize until the gov. official arrives.3. Who else should be invited? Ned can accomodate about 12 "with room to spare." Does that mean as many as 20-25? Who is inviting Dennis Anna Coker? Is anyone from Bridgeton being invited? Any other Nanticokes to be invited?4. Who will invite Sec. Hayward and/or Gov. Minner?5. Will there be room for a display of pictures and/or artifacts, if desired?6. What other points should we be addressing?---------------------------------------------------------------Betty Ray Terrybettyandrayterry@From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "dallen@state.de.us" Cc: "lwalling@state.de.us" , "Dennis Coker:;"
, "dgriffith@state.de.us"
, "cblume6@" , "kcunningham@mail.dot.state.de.us" , "deborahpunger@" Cc: "Heritage49@" , "'Jackson, Lynn'"
, "'Marshall, Celeste H.'"
, "'Terry, Betty & Ray'"
, "'Heite, Ned'" , "'Ridgeway, Rose Marie'" Cc: "'Gregg, Lorraine'" , "'gminner@state.de.us'"
, "'NHayward@mail.dot.state.de.us'"
, "'External-Affairs@mail.dot.state.de.us'" , "'willmosleysr@'" Subject: RE: BloomsburyDate: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 23:18:51 -0400
Dear Ms. Allen,
My name is John
C. Carter, and I am one of the genealogists--and Native American descendants--of which Ned Heite wrote in his message to you, attached below.
For over 27 years I have worked on the genealogy of the associated families involved directly and indirectly with Mr. Heite's Bloomsbury project, and can assure you that the material he has presented in the document (as well as his previous works for the Delaware Department of Transportation) is of the utmost accuracy.
I am a registered member of the Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape Indians of NJ, (membership #1040), centered in Bridgeton, NJ, whose tribal rolls and records clearly show that without a doubt all three Native American remnant groups being referred to here (for ease, I will refer to them as the "Bridgeton group," the "Cheswold group," and the "Millsboro group"--the latter of course being of Charles Clark's affiliation) are indelibly intertwined genealogically with one another, whether Chief Clark wishes to admit this or not.
I wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Heite's objection that scholarly protocol (as well as common sense) dictates that in any fair debate, one must lend an ear and give credence to both sides of a disagreement in order to make an educated judgment. Those of us in the "Bridgeton group," the "Cheswold group," and even many members of the "Millsboro group"--Chief Clark's own fellow tribal members--have long been dismayed that such attention has been granted to Chief Clark and his objections, without any audience being granted or rebuttal allowed from those who hold the actual facts.
I hereby request that we collectively be allowed to present our side of the issue, and to present such facts and documentation that will show--beyond the shadow of any doubt--that Chief Clark's objections and rantings are wholly biased, deceptive, and entirely groundless.
We request a meeting with preferably both Governor Minner and Secretary Hayward, and hope that such a meeting can be held on Monday, August 20th, as we will also have members journeying from locations as far away as Florida to be present at a gathering already planned for that date.
Thank-you very much for your time and consideration.
Sincerely,
John
C. Carter
-----Original Message-----
From:
Ned Heite [SMTP:ned@]Sent:
Wednesday, August 01, 2001 12:37 PMTo:
dallen@state.de.usCc:
lwalling@state.de.us; Dennis Coker:;; dgriffith@state.de.us; cblume6@; kcunningham@mail.dot.state.de.us; deborahpunger@; Spiff@; Heritage49@Subject:
BloomsburyMs. Allen:Thanks for the response. The sooner this is resolved, the better.Native American people of Kent County are getting on this case bigtime. Dennis Coker has asked for a hearing with DelDOT.To complicate matters further, leading genealogists from all threelocal Native American communities will be in Dover August 20. Theywant an audience with someone in authority. This is a much biggerissue than just our report.I hope someone in state government will stand up and takeresponsibility for this censorship on August 20, and will be preparedto explain precisely what is wrong with the report.I don't see what's so intricate. On one side, you have Charles Clarkvirtually alone. On the other side, you have Native Americans inDelaware, the leading genealogists in this subject area, and most ofthe archaeologists working in this region.So what's the big deal?We all wonder why one person, with no official standing, can act asjudge, jury, and censor over a state program, without even thepretense of hearing both sides of the issue.Native American people of this state deserve to have theirpost-contact history published; the state has paid for this work, andthe people deserve to benefit from it. Scholars in genealogy,archaeology, and history unanimously endorse the work; you can askthem. It has already been used in college classrooms and cited inother publications. Parts have been published in scholarly journals,and one part is online.If the findings make Charles Clark uncomfortable, he can write arebuttal. He was given the opportunity, and turned it down, with adhominem remarks and slanders but not one tiny shred of evidence tosupport his case. In the best tradition of scholarship, one publishesand then takes whatever criticism comes along; that is how it works,except in this case.But the report has never been questioned by anyone else but CharlesClark, who is not an expert in the fields covered. I resent thisreflection on my longstanding personal reputation, and particularly Iresent being called a racist. Anyone who knows my work among NativeAmerican people will know that such charges against me are whollytrumped up.Ned Heite and Baby the Land RoverNed@Heite Consulting, archaeologists and historians-------------------------------------At 11:09 AM -0400 8/1/01, Debra S. Allen wrote:>Mr. Heite:>>The Governor forwarded your email to me for response. I have been working on>this issue as well as Lee Ann Walling. Sec. Hayward is out of the state at>present. This is such an intricate issue, we ask that you be patient for the>time being. As soon as Nathan returns, we will speak with him again and be>in touch with you.>>Debra AllenFrom: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Heite, Ned'" Cc: "'Marshall, Sandy Coursey'" , "'Marshall, Celeste H.'" , "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" , "'Unger, Debbie Pierce'" , "'Jackson, Lynn'" Subject: RE: (reject notices) BloomsburyDate: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 23:25:53 -0400
Hi, Ned.
I received rejects for the following individuals:Daniel R. Griffith@division_office@dohca2 -- MAILBOX IS FULLDennis Coker -- User unknownNathan Hayward -- Out-of-office message: I'll be out until August 20. If you have any questions or need immediate assistance, please contact Pam Watkins at (302) 760-2303. Thanks, Nathan Hayward
Ned, can you please forward to Dennis Coker? I don't have his email address.
Thanks,
John
From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'bettyandrayterry@'" Subject: RE: Photo: Rebecca Cott RidgewayDate: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:40:39 -0400
Yes, certainly.
Although I would request that you omit/change two segments: the part about Pauline having passed away last Saturday (since the phrase will soon be outdated anyway), and I would appreciate it if you could change this part:"...and therefore the most likely of all the grandchildren to have knowledge of their ancestors."to be as follows:"...and therefore she would likely have knowledge of their ancestors."
(There are a cousin or two who might take offense at my saying that Pauline was the "most likely" to have knowledge, when they would claim they had more interest and knowledge than Pauline, regardless of her being the oldest grandchild). (Believe me, a couple of these cousins are touchy. One did not speak to Pauline for many years, merely because of a simple misunderstanding).
Thanks!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Betty & Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]Sent:
Friday, August 03, 2001 1:00 AMTo:
spiff@Subject:
RE: Photo: Rebecca Cott Ridgeway
Hi
John
,Thanks for the explanation! May we post thephotos to the Mitsawokett site, along with your comments?B R
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Wednesday, August 01, 2001 10:15 PMTo:
'bettyandrayterry@'Subject:
RE: Photo: Rebecca Cott Ridgeway
Hi, Betty & Ray.
WOW, this attachment must have been HUGE. I tried to access my messages this morning, but it kept failing because of this message. Finally got them to download from my service provider tonight.
Anyway, yes, as far as I've been told, both are Rebecca Cott Ridgeway. I agree that they look different, but have always attributed it to the photos having been taken at different points in her life.
I'm assuming she got the photos from my website, or perhaps I sent them to her a while back. I have the originals of both.
My father's cousin Pauline B. Mosley Durham Mercado (who just passed away this last Saturday) gave me the clearer one a few years ago. She labelled the back of the photo with "Rebecca Cott Ridgeway, my great-grandmother." Although Pauline was only 1 year old when Rebecca died (in 1913), she was the oldest grandchild of Sarah Catherine Ridgeway Carter, Rebecca's daughter, and therefore the most likely of all the grandchildren to have knowledge of their ancestors.
The more-faded photo was given to me by a couple of years ago by Katherine E. Newlin Thomas, daughter of my great-aunt Agnes L. Carter Newlin. Both Katherine and Pauline are first cousins of my father. Anyway, the photo had belonged to Aunt Agnes, and after she passed away (in 1991) it went to Katherine. On the back is written "Rebecca Cott Ridgeway, my grandmother," and I recognize the writing as Agnes', as she and I corresponded for many years. Agnes was 12 when Rebecca passed away.
So, they both come from people who were well within the realm to be certain of the identities, even though the photos look different.
John
From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'bettyandrayterry@'" , "ned@" , "Nanticoke9@" , "heritage49@" , "deborahpunger@" , "jacklyn001@" Subject: RE: Our Gathering -- where?Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 23:48:40 -0400
Hi, all.
I agree.
Whereas the archives are tempting, I feel we can socialize much easier at Ned's. For myself (and, I believe, Debbie), we suggested the gathering so we would get a chance to meet the core group with whom we've corresponded with for so long and never met.
I don't think I'll be organized enough on this trip to perform serious research. (And I'm already toting enough along as it is! One of my suitcases will have several photo albums and will probably be heavy enough alone to make the plane tilt to one side!)
Just my thoughts....
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Betty & Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]Sent:
Friday, August 03, 2001 1:26 PMTo:
spiff@; ned@; Nanticoke9@; heritage49@; deborahpunger@; jacklyn001@Subject:
RE: Our Gathering -- where?Ned's place is ready for us AND Ned is checkingout space at the Archives. But it seems that with a largish group offolks, some of whom may have travelled a far piece, that the Archives would not be appropriate both on a numbers basis and socially--folks like toschmooze!We are inviting the Bridgeton leadership but cannot leave this up in the air: Social gathering at Ned's or Archives? Or both? If both, we should meet earlier at Ned's to allow enough time for the Archives.Inquiring minds want to know!----- Original Message -----From:To: ned@ ;spiff@Cc: jacklyn001@ ; deborahpunger@ ; bettyandrayterry@ ;heritage49@Sent: 8/2/01 9:51:02 AMSubject: RE: Our GatheringConsider this.... If Hayward is out of the office until August 20th, I doubt seriously if he will be in a good position to meet with us since he will be returning from vacation (apparently 2 weeks). Typically, the first week back from vacation is hectic trying to catch up on things (no matter what your job may be).Let's be realistic. Sure, we can move forward and offer Hayward the invite, but do not be surprised if it is not accepted at this time. The question then becomes, would we be receptive to another date? Or, if we would prefer to can the Hayward idea and move forward with a gathering for us, then what becomes our purpose?I offer an alternative route for our gathering. In the event Hayward is unable to meet us, then we all meet up at the DE Archives to do some research (I'm sure we all have more of that to do), then get together for dinner at Ned's favorite Chinese buffet on Route 13.Decisions need to be solidly made soon. We are all busy people with active lives. I'd like to have this event appear on my schedule in ink vs. pencil.As for inviting the Bridgeton group, Anna and her son and whomever else agreed to.... as Nike says... JUST DO IT! The more the merrier!CelesteFrom: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Cc: "'Unger, Debbie Pierce'" Subject: FW: Our Gathering -- where?Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 12:06:11 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Just between you and me (and I've CC'd Debbie).....Confidentiality, please.....
...Sandy and Celeste are REALLY starting to piss me off!!! First, they speak to us as if they're giving orders and taking command of the whole situation, and now (below) they threaten to pull out of the event altogether if we do not jump to the snap of their fingers, lickety-split!
I going to take a few minutes to compose myself (yes, Debbie, for real!), and try to draft a reply back to the core group. After all we've done to get to this point, I don't want to upset Sandy or Celeste into staying away from the meeting, and jeopardizing the chance to defend Bloomsbury, but they NEED to understand that some of us are just too far away to be organizers of these efforts!
John
P.S.
Heaven FORBID that they take a day off just to "hang out" with us!!! (Still boiling!!)
-----Original Message-----
From:
Heritage49@ [SMTP:Heritage49@]Sent:
Saturday, August 04, 2001 8:20 AMTo:
spiff@; Nanticoke9@; Ned@Subject:
Re: Our Gathering -- where?John
:You missed the point! Meeting in a private room at the archives does not mean that everyone has to do research. We can socialize, talk about what we want plus it gives us the option to do research for those who want/need to do so. Decisions have to be made quickly, Missy has to put in to take the day off at work -- this is not going to be done until decisions are made by this group. If decisions are not made by tomorrow, I will not be there -- I have a hectic schedule at all times & have to move things I have on the calendar, which I am not moving until I know exactly where I'm going & why. I told Anna Coker last night that I will not be there if this doesn't get organized quickly. Also, I will be making a one day trip which means what we are going to do that day has to be organized -- I won't be there to just hang out.Sandy
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Friday, August 03, 2001 11:49 PMTo:
'bettyandrayterry@'; ned@; Nanticoke9@; heritage49@; deborahpunger@; jacklyn001@Subject:
RE: Our Gathering -- where?
Hi, all.
I agree.
Whereas the archives are tempting, I feel we can socialize much easier at Ned's. For myself (and, I believe, Debbie), we suggested the gathering so we would get a chance to meet the core group with whom we've corresponded with for so long and never met.
I don't think I'll be organized enough on this trip to perform serious research. (And I'm already toting enough along as it is! One of my suitcases will have several photo albums and will probably be heavy enough alone to make the plane tilt to one side!)
Just my thoughts....
Thanks,
John
From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Marshall, Sandy Coursey'" , "'Marshall, Celeste H.'" , "'Heite, Ned'" , "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" , "'Unger, Debbie Pierce'" , "'Jackson, Lynn'" Subject: RE: Our GatheringDate: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 15:41:50 -0400
Hi, Sandy & all.
OK, I concede on the archives suggestion. If a private room is available, that sounds like it would work out fine. Also, it would probably be a more advantageous proximity to the office of whichever government representative we may be able to meet with.
However, from my viewpoint way down here in Florida, these are the points I would like to make:
The original purpose behind the initial suggestion of this meeting was to "hang out," and to give Debbie and myself a chance to meet the folks we had been corresponding with online for quite some time. Afterward, when the suggestion was made that this presented a unique opportunity to defend the issue of the Bloomsbury report, this sounded like a great idea, but I had maintained from the beginning that I am a more "behind-the-scenes" personality, but would certainly be willing to show support and lend a voice in the background. Ned had also stated that he was "a little gun-shy" in terms of any attempt to lead the effort (understandably, since it is his work we are discussing, and "outside" voices would show a more unbiased point of view), and Betty & Ray echoed my feeling of leaning more toward the "genealogicize," or "socialize," rather than the "politicize."
Sandy, you mentioned on July 29th: "I don't have a problem meeting with them [the Governor or Hayward], I'm used to this, plus I have something to impart for lasting impressions." Somewhere also during that period, you also stated, "If we all agree that we should meet with a governmental officialon the 20th, we need to be making moves for an appointment. Top officials have busy schedules."
Therefore, I took the step of sending the letter to the officials, denouncing the red-tape surrounding the Bloomsbury brouhaha and requesting an appointment, even though I am very nervous about my seeming prominence in the effort that my letter might have indicated to them. I feel exactly like Ray & Betty said in their message on July 31st: "We two are so white appearing as well as acculturated, what can we say? We are learning thru the List but do not have sufficient armament to engage head-on high muckety-mucks."
Therefore, Sandy, based on your comments noted above, I feel that you are the natural choice for leading the direction in this effort. I hope I have not misinterpreted your stance, and very much wish that you and Celeste can fit this into your schedules. By your comment of "I have something to impart for lasting impressions," I am assuming you are referring to genealogical documentation to be offered as "proof" for our side of the argument that the three Indian remnant communities are intertwined...? Do you have paperwork (copies) created? Will you be our speaker during the meeting?
By residing in Florida, far removed in distance, association and familiarity from the melting pot of these political efforts, I feel that I am ill-equipped to be making decisions and calls as to specific times, locales, etc. I know Debbie feels the same way, based on conversations I've had with her, and she also has a very full schedule leading up to her departure north. Betty & Ray live in the Baltimore area, and I would guess feel similarly. I confess that I do not know offhand where you (Sandy and/or Celeste) reside, but have assumed that it is within the area, based on Sandy's comments of being "used to" such meetings as with the Governor or Secretary Hayward.
To sum up,
I will bow to your (Sandy & Celeste) hectic schedules and need for action/decision, but my perception is that you will be able to act as our leaders. (Am I out of bounds by assuming this?) Please let me/us know what we should do next. Concurrently, I am willing to be one of those present in numbers, and to offer anything I can to back you up, but if this is contrary to your expectations, I don't know what to suggest. I just hope we can work this out.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Heritage49@ [SMTP:Heritage49@]Sent:
Saturday, August 04, 2001 8:20 AMTo:
spiff@; Nanticoke9@; Ned@Subject:
Re: Our Gathering -- where?John
:You missed the point! Meeting in a private room at the archives does not meanthat everyone has to do research. We can socialize, talk about what we want plus it gives us the option to do research for those who want/need to do so.Decisions have to be made quickly, Missy has to put in to take the day off atwork -- this is not going to be done until decisions are made by this group.If decisions are not made by tomorrow, I will not be there -- I have a hecticschedule at all times & have to move things I have on the calendar, which I am not moving until I know exactly where I'm going & why. I told Anna Coker last night that I will not be there if this doesn't get organized quickly.Also, I will be making a one day trip which means what we are going to dothat day has to be organized -- I won't be there to just hang out.Sandy
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Friday, August 03, 2001 11:49 PMTo:
'bettyandrayterry@'; ned@; Nanticoke9@; heritage49@; deborahpunger@; jacklyn001@Subject:
RE: Our Gathering -- where?
Hi, all.
I agree.
Whereas the archives are tempting, I feel we can socialize much easier at Ned's. For myself (and, I believe, Debbie), we suggested the gathering so we would get a chance to meet the core group with whom we've corresponded with for so long and never met.
I don't think I'll be organized enough on this trip to perform serious research. (And I'm already toting enough along as it is! One of my suitcases will have several photo albums and will probably be heavy enough alone to make the plane tilt to one side!)
Just my thoughts....
Thanks,
John
From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'bettyandrayterry@'" Subject: RE: Obituary of Pauline B. Mosley Durham MercadoDate: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 07:13:34 -0400
Hi,
His name is Efrain. Nickname Frank.
I will be sending you photocopies of the actual obituary and funeral program as well.
Thanks for the info about Charlotte. I think she's the one who has also visited my (dad's) cousin Katherine Thomas, but can't remember for sure. My experience has been that the information from those "other Carter branches" gets a little confusing at times, and at the first sign of George Thomas vs. George Taft, or George William vs. George Washington I will beat a hasty retreat to take a shot of some form of mind-numbing alcohol!!
:-)
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Betty & Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]Sent:
Monday, August 06, 2001 8:00 PMTo:
spiff@Cc:
Betty & Ray TerrySubject:
RE: Obituary of Pauline B. Mosley Durham Mercado
Hi
John
,Yes, we saw that obit recently. Pauline'shusband's given name is spelled Efraim Efrain at times. Which iscorrect?We were called (twice!) by Charlotte HughesGaines on Sunday. It is exciting to actually be called instead of theother way around!We had been trying to visit with Charlotte buther health has been acting up. She is the daughter of Esther CarterHughes, granddaughter of George William Carter and Sally Belle Carney,ggranddaughter of George T. Carter Lina Mosley. We had met her a fewtimes at funerals.She and her daughter Bonita have gotten excitedabout the family tree since seeing the Carter lineage online. It wasdifficult to tell during our conversation just how much info she has gotten from data printed out from the online reports and how much is from familyrecords. She is going to try to make the meeting at the Archives Aug.20. We will tell her where and when the meeting will be held. She isanxious to meet you!----- Original Message -----From: John
C. CarterTo: Terry, Betty RaySent: 8/6/01 11:26:08 PMSubject: Obituary of Pauline B. Mosley Durham MercadoTook me a while but finally found what I was looking for.This is my dad's first cousin, Pauline B. Mosley Durham Mercado, who passed away Saturday the 28th of July.She was the daughter of Levi Burton Mosley Sr. and Mary Jane Carter.Thanks,John
P.S.
The surname in the headline is spelled wrong--should be Mercado, not Mercedo.---------------------------------------------------------------Betty Ray Terrybettyandrayterry@To: Mitsawokett@From: ned heite Mailing-List: list Mitsawokett@; contact Mitsawokett-owner@Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 20:46:27 -0400Reply-To: Mitsawokett@Subject: [Mitsawokett] Who can help this fellow?I'm forwarding this item, not just because of all the kind words he said about me (which are appreciated nonetheless) but because I think we have an opportunity here to share and interact.>>From: lschwalm >Mr. Heite:>>I tracked down your email from your report, Delaware's Invisible Indians, on>the Mitsawockett website. I am historian at the University of Iowa working on>a project that concerns African Americans in Iowa in the nineteenth century. >In the course of my research I came across an extended family, the Sammons,>who came to eastern Iowa in 1840 from Sussex Co., Delaware. (Smaller families>also came at that time from the same area--Perkins and Rownsends.) Although>the sources (and the prevalence of the name) make it difficult to be certain,>it seems that the four eldest Sammons family members to come to Iowa appear in>the 1830 Sussex Co. census as free "mulattos" (Joseph, b. 1794, Nehemiah, b.>1810, Zachariah, b. 1789, Solomon, b. 1799). I've been trying to find out a>bit more about this family, mostly because it is so unusual to see a migration>of this distance at this time period, particularly among free blacks. Having>looked through your material on the website (and it certainly seems that you>would rank as the leading authority on this subject), I now see that this may>very well have been a family of Indian people rather than free blacks. I am>certain they were light-skinned, in any case, as the census enumerators varied>in their assignment of racial category to some of the family members. I'm>hoping you can direct me to some secondary source that will help me get a>fuller understanding of the likely origins of this family, their ancestry, and>the community from which they migrated. I know from reading William Williams'>book on slavery in Delaware that the state legislature was making life>increasingly difficult for free people of color in the early and>mid-nineteenth century, and I assume that the Sammons, whether free blacks or>Indian people, were subjected to these legal restrictions. Yet why would they>have chosen Iowa as their destination, given the state's own laws>circumscribing the rights of free blacks (and assuming the Sammons would have>been identified and treated as such in Iowa, which had less than 200 black>residents in 1840)? From your own understanding, how did the Indian people>of this region (Sussex Co., Nanticoke) self-identify? Did they maintain>tribal identities into the mid-19th century? Did they regard themselves as>"free people of color," and was it likely that Indians intermarried with the>large population of slaves and free blacks in the area? Any research advice>you can impart would be greatly appreciated. And, thank heavens for the>Mitsawockett website--a real gem.>>Thanks,>>Leslie Schwalm>>Leslie A. Schwalm>Associate Professor of History>University of Iowa>Iowa City, Iowa 52242-- *****ned@*************From: spiff@To: ned@Subject: Re: PR and the Bloomsbury reportDate: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 15:56:45 -0400 (EDT)Cc: heritage49@, nanticoke9@, Spiff@, deborahpunger@, JACKLYN001@, wahoor@, bettyandrayterry@ Greetings Ned & all. I have just written & sent a message to Bridgeton tribal chairman Mark Gould, in regard to this issue, and hope to hear from him in the near future. I did meet & speak with Lorraine John
son Gregg yesterday afternoon, and had a good talk with her. As soon as I hear back from Mark, I will follow-up. Thanks! John
P.S.
I also wrote to Joyce Mullins directly before leaving Florida. P.
P.S.
Why the heck is it so damn hot & humid up here???? I thought I came up here from Florida to escape all this!!! :-)-------------------------Quoting Ned Heite :> I'm disappointed that various individuals, for> various very good and > valid reasons, don't want to come forward and> give interviews on the > record for Joyce Mullins of the Dover Post about> points raised by > Charlie Clark.> > Charlie's banking on that.> > He knows that nobody will beat the drum louder,> so he is out there > beating away.> > But newspaper publicity is where the action is.> I feel like I am the > only one fighting on that front. Nobody in the> Native American > community, it seems, wants to be identified as> opposing Charlie or > refuting his bizarre allegations.> > Charlie has mustered his troops for writing> letters to the Governor, > which is what seems to be keeping the report> suppressed. I understand > the governor's mail is running about 50-50.> > Our side needs letters and petitions. I have> drummed up letters from > the archaeological community, although I have> actually seen only two.> > Also heard today from within DelDOT that Charlie> is very distressed > that the archaeologists have written and> demanded the report be > published.> > We still don't know how Charlie gets away with> holding policy-forming > meetings behind closed doors with top DelDOT> officials. It seems that > he met with them on July 17 and demanded all> kinds of things about > the report. He also wants the reviewer to be> in-state. He says I am > wrong about the Francisco/Sisco business, and> that is serious enough > to hold up the report. He is also miffed that I> did not cite the 1881 > law, which doesn't relate to anything.> > Dan Griffith seems to be changing his mind, but> Dan's mind is nothing > but a wind sock.> > Lee Ann Walling wrote me today, stating that the> Governor begins a > vacation on the 20th and she is unwilling to> break into that. Since > Nathan comes back from vacation that day, he is> not available.> > I told Lee Ann that these people have a right to> be heard. Since > Charlie seems to have unlimited access, the> other side of the story > deserves to be represented. I asked her if she> could arrange for > someone high up in the DelDOT hierarchy, and> herself, to meet with > the genealogists. I explained that people from> far away, like John
> and Debbie, can't just drop in at the> convenience of the people at > Legislative Hall.> > Even if the secretary and the governor are out> of town or > unavailable, I should think we could meet with> the chief engineer and > Lee Ann Walling. Dennis, do you want to suggest> that?> > NEVERTHELESS, everyone is invited to my place on> the morning of > August 20. I have already heard from the Terrys> that they will be > here at 9:30, which means that is when the party> starts, unless > somebody comes earlier.> > The following email addresses are useful to> know:> > nhayward@mail.dot.de.us> kcunningham@mail.dot.de.us> lwalling@state.de.us> gminner@state.de.us> joyce.mullins@> > ****************************************** Ned> Heite > (Ned@) *****************> > Delaware Department of Transportation has> produced more than 160 > archaeological reports. The public can readily> obtain free copies of > any DelDOT archaeologrical report, except #154,> the Bloomsbury > report. This report has been withdrawn from> public view after two > individuals pulled political strings to keep the> public from > obtaining certain correct historical information> that they believe > damages their cause.> > Read the ugly story of official censorship at> --> > From: spiff@To: ned@Subject: Re: August 20th / Bloomsbury reportDate: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 22:01:13 -0400 (EDT)Cc: heritage49@, nanticoke9@, Spiff@, deborahpunger@, JACKLYN001@, wahoor@, bettyandrayterry@, mgould42@
Hi, Ned & all. I am cc'ing Bridgeton tribal chairman Mark Gould with this message. I had extended the invitation that he (and any other Bridgeton tribal representatives) would be most welcome to join us on the 20th, but have explained that we are still trying to work out the details as to which (if any) government representative we will be "granted an audience" with. He has asked for the location and time of our meeting. I have mentioned that the time of 9:30am has been suggested, and that we will most likely begin by meeting at Ned's place. Ned, can you please provide directions? (As for coming from New Jersey). Also, have you received any word back on which representative(s) might be available to meet with us? Thanks!! John
----- Forwarded message from MGOULD42@ -----Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 20:34:02 EDTFrom: MGOULD42@Reply-To: MGOULD42@Subject: Re: August 20To: spiff@John
The where and time would help a lot.Mark-----------------Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 16:03:42 -0400 (EDT)From: spiff@Reply-To: spiff@Subject: Fwd: August 20To: mgould42@ Hello again, Mark. Below is another message in regard to the August20th meeting proposed by a few of us from theMitsawokett list, as well as a message from Ned to LeeAnn Walling and Debra Allen of the DE Governor's Office. You, or another other Bridgeton representatives, would be most welcome as well. Just thought I would forward this to you, to provide you as much information as possible. Thanks again, John
---------------From:
Ned Heite [SMTP:ned@]Sent:
Thursday, August 09, 2001 9:43 PMTo:
heritage49@; Spiff@;deborahpunger@;bettyandrayterry@; JACKLYN001@Cc:
cblume6@Subject:
August 20As far as I'm concerned, I'd like to invite all mygenealogistfriends (and whoever else) to coffee at my place, inthe garden ifpossible, on the morning of August 20. This was theoriginal plan,that we should get a chance to put faces on emailaddresses. Thenafter schmoozing, we could go to a restaurant forlunch, and thenwhatever.Somebody needs to invite our friends from across theriver, if someof them might have time to join us. I'd love to showoff the newDelaware archives building in the afternoon. RussMcCabe has offeredto provide a meeting room and a tour. Russ is a SussexCounty native,who suspects his family has Native Americanconnections. He is fullof stories.Adding politics complicates things terribly. If we getan appointmentwith some VIPs, we are at their mercy, but I think thegeneraloutline of the day could easily be as stated here. I'mready toadjust.Here is the text of an email I just sent to Lee Ann Walling and Debra Allen of the Governor's office:As you know, a group of respected Native Americangenealogists,members of all three organized communities in thisarea, are meetingin the Dover area on August 20. They are very keen tomeet withGovernor Minner and Secretary Hayward, to set therecord straight onthe genealogical aspects of the Bloomsbury report atthat time.Several have asked me to inquire if a meeting willhappen, and with whom.I understand that the chief of the Lenape band inCheswold is willingto join the meeting to help refute the Clarks'contention that I am not telling the truth about the history of Native people in Delaware.We simply wrote a factual report, and I think we havethe right toset my research before the public, since the state hasgivenplatforms to those who claim we lied.By the way, Chief Coker of the Lenape and Charles Clarkare thirdcousins. I repeat my contention that the threecommunities are sointerrelated that they cannot be distinguishedgenealogically. IfCharles Clark believes he can demonstrate otherwise,let him setforth his evidence in public. As it stands, onlyCharles Clark'svague and unsubstantiated negative allegations arebeing heard.Charles Clark is reportedly telling people that theNanticoke willlose their access to state money if anyone else isrecognized as anIndian tribe in Delaware. Apparently the Clarks believethat thefacts presented in the Bloomsbury report will damagetheir status;they said as much in their letters to Secretary Canby.You may be interested to know the following:Heite Consulting is serving as expert witness (gratis)on behalf ofthe Nanticoke-Lenni Lenape Indians of New Jersey in acourt case topreserve an important prehistoric site. We were invitedtoparticipate because we are known to be friends of theIndians.I have been invited to address a public meeting ofLenape from acrossthe nation on October 20. My subject will be the post-contact historyof Native American families of the Delaware Valley.I have been invited by the Nabb Center for historicalreserach ofSalisbury University to address a public meeting incelebration ofNative American Month in Maryland this November.How can one reconcile such facts with the falseallegation, uponwhich DelDOT acted, that I am not a friend of theIndians? It istime for the Governor to step in and order publicationof theBloomsbury report, like all the other reports submittedto DelDOT.Further delay in publishing the report is reflectingunfavorably onmy professional and personal reputation, and isproviding aready-made factoid for the enemies of Lenaperecognition.--Edward HeiteHeite ConsultingArchaeologists and HistoriansCamden, DelawareNed@From: spiff@To: Ned Heite Subject: Re: Good vibesDate: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:15:36 -0400 (EDT)Cc: cblume6@, RWahoor , Carter John
, uridgeway , heritage49 , Mark Gould , Celeste - , betty & ray terry , JACKLYN001@, deborahpunger@, ackressman@, wahoo , lfreida20@
Hi, Ned & all.Yes, I will most definitely be there, and I'm sure Debbie will be as well. I just spoke with her this afternoon. She arrived here in Jersey yesterday, and I will be seeing her tomorrow. (We're starting off the day by meeting at the Gouldtown Cemetery!) She has fallen behind on her email, but I updated her on all the latest developments, as of earlier today. She was excited to hear of our growing attendance list.I have been following all the messages here from my aunt's computer, but since she is on AOL and I'm not, I have to access my service provider via the web. It's a cumbersome method, and I've had very limited time for correspondence, with many, many trips in the last few days. (I need a vacation from my vacation!!)I've been to Delaware twice already this week, and for the latest trip yesterday I took my cousin David, who has a relatively new interest in his genealogy and heritage, to the cemeteries at Manship/Immanuel Union, Fork Branch, and Whatcoat. For those of you who may not know, Whatcoat (where Corpl. Daniel Coker's grave is) was recently featured in an article in the Wilmington (?) paper, involving an nice clean-up effort of the cemetery. The article specifically mentioned Daniel Coker as well.We also went to the Delaware Agricultural Museum, and got to see the old Carney house.My aunt and I have also visited MANY relatives the last few days, and have recieved lots of old family photos which elder folks have chosen to share and pass along. I have also used my camera to make many copies of photographs, which will be developed and scanned once I return to Florida. Sadly, we have also seen COUNTLESS photos for which names were never written on the back, and the memories of who the people are have long since faded. This should be a lesson to all of us to get the names written on the backs of all our old photos!!Although this has been an exhausting week (!!), it has made me very envious of all the folks that live up here, with all of this history and information in their back yards, so-to-speak. I just wish I lived closer!! One visit every 5 years just doesn't cut it!!My aunt and I also went to see Rose today at the Indian Center in Bridgeton, and she mentioned that she and Lorraine were hoping to come Monday as well. I will be seeing them tomorrow also.That's all for now. Looking forward to seeing everyone on Monday!!!!Take care,John
P.S.
Ned, I think something is wrong with Dennis Coker's email address. It never works when I click on "reply all," so I removed it from the addresses above.P.
P.S.
Will someone PLEASE turn down the DelMarVa thermostat??!!-----------------------Quoting Ned Heite :> I am pleased to announced that Monday morning> promises to be a > relaxed, non-confrontational, enjoyable event.> The guests of honor > are, of course, our Florida colleagues, John
> Carter and Deb Unger. I > hope they still plan to come and schmooze.> > Coffee will be ready about 9, Monday morning.> Betty and Ray Terry > have already told me they will be here circa> 9:30.> > I have invited Kevin Cunningham and his> colleagues from DelDOT to > join us. Kevin, is, after all, the person who> brought us the McKee > Road, duPont Station, Scarborough Road, and> Blueberry Hill reports, > all of which still are available. Just ask> Kevin.> > Debra Allen from the Governor's office and one> other staff member > will join us about 10:30 for a frank exchange of> views on the present > situation. Don't hold anything back; I think she> sympathizes with our > inability to get this research published, and> get recognition for > Indians other than Nanticoke.> > For lunch, I recommend Villa Paradiso, on Route> 10 east of Camden. > They have a $6.95 luncheon buffet, and they will> set us up a private > room at no extra charge if we want to lunch as a> group. I need a show > of hands.> > In the afternoon, for the genealogy buffs, Russ> McCabe of the > Delaware Archives offers to give us orientation> on that magnificent > new facility. There will be time for research,> if we don't use it > all up visiting.> > My current site, in north Dover, will be under> excavation unless it > is raining. We have several interesing and> unexplained features that > we are currently exploring. The site is really> easy to find, behind > Sam's Club.> > There will be no reporters present at the> conversations; we will be > able to talk openly with the state officials.> > Here is a chance to put faces on those email> names we have been > talking to. I hope you'll come and bring anyone> you think is > interested.> > I would like to know who's coming, so please > drop me a line.> > Let's have a good showing.> > My house is at 21 South Main Street, Camden, > DE.> >From: spiff@To: bettyandrayterry@, ACoker43@Subject: Fwd: HiMessage-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 23:46:23 -0400 (EDT)FYI.(Betty & Ray):Peatie (Eleanor) is speaking (below) of her brother, Walt "Bugsy" Carney, who'd had cancer. We received the news of his passing today while visiting Kenny & Natalie Ridgeway.John
----- Forwarded message from Eleanor P Olin -----Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:26:29 -0400From: Eleanor P Olin Reply-To: Eleanor P Olin Subject: HiTo: bjenkins@,Raymond.Carney@ngb.ang.af.mil,Spiff@,wjbeck1303@,lynn6461@,lynneec@,BigJack706@,micantoni@,Enorcloud@,Fowlline@,Lfreida15@,jflack9103@,N3WTA@,ginnywren53@,dorcasreed@,lsblevins@You may have already heard but I wanted to let you know that my brotherWalt died today after a terrible struggle to breath. I'll get back to you with the funeral arrangements tomorrow. We'll really miss him but it was better for him as he was really quite ill for the last week. EleanorTo: "'Mitsawokett List'" From: "John
C. Carter" Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:34:23 -0400Subject: [Mitsawokett] Re: Pritchetts
On 30 Aug 2001, Paul John
son wrote:>> My cousin (Mabel Pierce) was married to>> Alonzo Pritchett, brother to Charles E. Pritchett.>> Alonzo (1885-1968) - born: Near Queen Anne,>> Maryland - Parents: Alex Pritchett & Miriah Clark.
Hi, Paul.
In my database I show a Alex Pritchett (b. ca. 1840) married to an Annie M. ______ (b. ca. 1845). I show them as the parents of:
Charles Edward Pritchett, b. ca. 1862
John
Wesley Pritchett, b. ca. 1865
Laura Virginia Pritchett, b. ca. 1866
Surrena Pritchett, b. ca. 1869
Is this the same family? i.e., was Alonzo another child of theirs? Were "Annie M." and "Miriah" the same person?
The above information came from TheoLouise Braunskill's post to this list on 15 Oct 1999. Here is an excerpt from her post:>> I just found on 1870 census taken June 3rd>> Greensbourgh, Caroline County, Maryland:>>>> Pritchett, Alex
30 M M Laborer >> " Annie M 25 F M>> " Charles Edward 8 M M>> " John 5 M M>> " Laura 4 F M>> " Surrena 1 F M>> " Charles H 7 M M
>>>> I continued down about 6 more pages and>> FOUND THIS: Denton, Caroline County,>>
Maryland July 1870>>>> Blake, William 60 M B>> " Sarah 50 F B>> Pritchett, Alex 30 M M>> " Annie M 25 F M>> " Charles Edward 8 M M>> " John Wesley 5 M M>> " Laura Virginia 4 F M>> " Surrena 1 F M>> Louis Alonza 13 M M>>>>
With Big Eyes, I don't know what to make of the>> top "2" Charles'. And I don't know what happened to>> the 2nd Charles on the bottom. Where did Alonza>> Louis come from?
John
again: Since the "Alonza Louis" (or Louis Alonza) above would have been born ca. 1857, it does not appear to be the same as the Alonzo you (Paul) spoke of. (Alonzo b. 1885). Could Louis Alonza be a brother of Alex, and therefore the uncle of Alonzo?
Thanks,
John
To: Mitsawokett@From: "P. JOHN
SON" Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 23:59:01 -0000Subject: [Mitsawokett] Re: PritchettsJohn
,This would be the same family. Alonzo was the child of Alexander & Miriah (Annie) Pritchett. Not sure if Miriah Annie or Annie Miriah Clark. But Alonzo's Social Security Form SS 5 - has Miriah Clark. Alonzo was born July 4, 1885 - so he was not listed in the below census (1870).PaulFrom: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "cmccabe@state.de.us" Cc: "'Heite, Ned'" , "'Terry, Betty & Ray'"
Subject: Thanks for the Archives tour...Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:40:47 -0400
Hi, Russ.
(I think I have the correct email address...?)
My name is John
Carter, and I was one of the genealogists with Ned Heite for whom you gave a tour of the Archives last Monday.
I just wanted to say thank-you very much--I really appreciated your taking the time to show us around and give us some "behind-the-scenes" info.
You are a very good spokesperson for the purpose and benefit of the Archives, and your enthusiasm is very infectious!
Good luck with everything, and thanks again!!
Sincerely,
John
From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Heite, Ned'" , "'Terry, Betty & Ray'"
, "'Unger, Debbie Pierce'"
, "'Gregg, Lorraine'" , "'Ridgeway, Rose Marie'" , "'Coker, Dennis'" To: "'cblume6@'" Cc: "'Jackson, Lynn'" Subject: Thanks!!!Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 23:35:32 -0400
Hi, Ned and all.
Arrived home in Florida last night (Wednesday). Still trying to get caught up on TONS of emails.....
Anyway, just wanted to send a quick hello....and say thanks again for allowing us to all meet at your house, thanks for lunch, and thanks for arranging the tour of the Archives. Everything was great!!!
I think the meeting went very well, and am eager to hear of any results.....
Also, thanks for the CD. Haven't checked it out yet, but will soon....
Debbie flies back tomorrow morning, and I will be picking her up at the airport.
Anyway, it was great to meet all of you whom I hadn't met in person before!!
Thanks,
John
P.S.
There were a couple of people at the meeting, whom I did not know, nor did I recognize their names (only heard their first names): Millie and Nina. Could someone explain who they were?
Also, what were the names of the government officials who were present? Of course one was Debra Allen, and I think the gentleman was named Ray (Harverson? Harberson?), but I did not catch the other two ladies' names. One was with Debra, and one was with Ray....From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" , "'Unger, Debbie Pierce'" , "'Jackson, Lynn'" , "'Schroeder, Evelyn'" , "'Carter, Jim & Susan'" , "'Hicks, David'" To: "'Hardcastle, Tom'" , "'mikecast@web.de'"
, "'Rootscolumn@'" Subject: RE: Molecular GenealogyDate: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 18:55:18 -0400
Hi, all.
Getting closer and closer to receiving some actual results...!
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Diahan Southard [SMTP:diahan_southard@byu.edu]Sent:
Thursday, August 30, 2001 11:50 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
RE: Checking inThe report will come by regular mail. I hope to have the report out to you by the end of next week. Hopefully.Thanks.Diahan
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Thursday, August 30, 2001 6:49 PMTo:
'Diahan Southard'Subject:
RE: Checking in
Hi, Diahan.
Just thought I'd check in again, since it's been about 3 weeks since I last heard from you. I was on vacation for a couple of weeks, and wanted to make sure I hadn't missed any messages.
Will the report be sent to me via email, or via regular mail?
Thanks,
John
SC-32
-----Original Message-----
From:
Diahan Southard [SMTP:diahan_southard@byu.edu]Sent:
Wednesday, August 08, 2001 1:05 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
RE: Checking inJohn
,We are in the final stages of writing your report and getting it out toyou. Soon.Diahan
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Wednesday, May 23, 2001 11:23 PMTo:
'Rootscolumn@'; 'Unger, Debbie'; 'Terry, Betty & Ray'; 'Jackson, Lynn'; 'Schroeder, Evelyn'Cc:
'Carter, Jim & Susan'; 'Hardcastle, Tom'; 'Hicks, David'Subject:
RE: Molecular Genealogy
Hello, all.
I realized it's been a while since I'd communicated with some of you regarding the DNA testing I was undergoing with my fifth-cousin Tom, my brother Jim, and my first-cousin David, in order to substantiate the a link between the Carter and Hardcastle families.
The word is: No results yet.
I sent the BYU representative an inquiry on May 11th and heard back from her on the 14th that the analysis had begun and should be completed within about 3 weeks. She said she would notify me when they "are done and have started compiling the data." Not sure if that means there's another step (compiling) to be done after the "analysis," but hopefully there will be some results in the near future.
I will keep you posted.
Thanks!
John
From: "John
C. Carter" Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:18:51 -0400Reply-To: Mitsawokett@Subject: [Mitsawokett] RE: group listserv
Hi, Ray & Betty.
If you're speaking of a place on the Yahoo Mitsawokett home page at which links/URLs can be attached, go to the main Mitsawokett page (on Yahoo), and click on "Bookmarks" in the left-hand column.
John
From: "John
C. Carter" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Subject: RE: Photos taken at Ned Heite's 20 AugDate: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 00:37:27 -0400
Sounds like I broke the camera!!!!
:-)
Hi, Ray & Betty & David.
Just wanted to say it was very nice to get to meet you. I very much enjoyed the day, but wish we could have spanned our meeting over a few days, with lots of opportunity for research and conversation!
I apologize if Debbie and I seemed a bit anxious to get back into the Archive room as you all were preparing to leave. I for one had never been to the Archives before, and knew if would probably be years before I ever would again, and I was eager for some nosing around in there.
Alas, the time was so short, all it achieved was to make me depressed as we exited, knowing there was so much information in there, but out of time and unable to reach it.
Sigh.....
Anyway, once I remembered how productive and entertaining the earlier part of the day was, I felt better again!
Take care,
John
P.S.
Ray, thanks very much for taking these photos. I plan to download them onto diskette, and take them to a local photo place to print on photographic paper, so I can put them in my album. However, there is no photo of you! Can you send a photo of the two or three of you?-------------------------------------------------From: "Betty & Ray Terry"Date: Thu Aug 23, 2001 11:55 pmSubject: Photos taken at Ned Heite's 20 AugGo to ~ g20Aug2001.htm Long loading time. One pic is not showing at this time. Working on it.From: "John
C. Carter" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Cc: "'Unger, Debbie Pierce'" Subject: RE: Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photosDate: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 01:38:28 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty.
How are you? Haven't heard from you in a while. Hope all is well.
I was over at Debbie's this evening, (or actually, yesterday, since it's after 1:30am now!), and she mentioned she had come across the infamous mis-named photo of Angelica Songo Durham again while going through the photographs on the Mitsawokett website. She gave me a few clues, and after searching around some, I found it! She is indeed correct. There is a mis-named photo on the site.
Here is the way to find it:
Go to the "D" photos.
For Catherine Durham, there are two links: one entitled "Catherine Durham 1" and one entitled "Catherine 2."
If you click on "Catherine 2," it takes you to a page of Hewitt "Hugh" & Angelica Songo (Durham) Durham. The first photo on this page is incorrect. The photo displayed there is of AngeliNa Munce Dean. This is the photo that I gave Harry Muncey many years ago.
Also, I just tried to go to the link for Angelina Munce Dean, both via the "D" page and the "M" page, and both links came back as errors and unable to display the page. So something seems to be not working there also.
Hope this helps.
Anyway, this mystery is now solved! :-)
Let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Betty & Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]Sent:
Friday, July 27, 2001 10:25 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
RE: Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photos
Hi
John
,We made sure that we removed the Songo fromAngelica Songo Munce. She is listed under both the Munce and Deansurnames. There is no Angelica Songo Durham that we could find.Have you heard anything about a time to meet atNed's on Aug 20?Cheers!
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:59 PMTo:
'Terry, Betty & Ray'Subject:
RE: Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photos
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Debbie and I have been discussing the purported photo of Angelica Songo Durham, and I keep telling her there is no such photo on Mitsawokett, and she says there is. She is very swamped with her job, etc, and will check the Mitsawokett site again in a couple of days.
But I think she's mistaken it with MAHALA Songo Durham. (And that photo is fine).
I will keep you posted.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
DEBORAHPUNGER@ [SMTP:DEBORAHPUNGER@]Sent:
Tuesday, July 24, 2001 11:27 PMTo:
spiff@; bettyandrayterry@Subject:
Re: Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photos
Hi
John
and Ray & Betty,I have tried to copy John
's message, this is my response - hopefully coherent.1. The photo John
speaks of titled "Angelica Songo Munce" etc. I was curiousabout this one since I have forever been in hunt of Angelica Songo DURHAM,and never came across another Angelica Songo. ??2. The tin-type photo of Angelina Munce Dean ALSO appears under the nameAngelica Songo Durham.well, maybe this isn't as confusing as it first appeared. thanks, John
Debbie
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Monday, July 23, 2001 11:50 PMTo:
'Terry, Betty & Ray'Cc:
'Unger, Debbie'Subject:
Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photos
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Debbie and I spoke last night, and she has been corresponding with a fellow cousin about a couple of the photos listed on the Mitsawokett website, and it seems there is some confusion.
On the "M" page, there is a listing for "Angelica Songo Munce." Who is this? When you click on the link, it takes us to one of Lynn's pages, where there are several listings, one of which is for "Angelica Munce." However, this is Angelica Munce Miller, wife of George Miller. I don't recall ever hearing of an Angelica Songo Munce. There was an Angelica Songo DURHAM, wife of Hewitt "Hughy" Durham, but I don't know of any Angelica Songo Munce. The photo shown when you follow the subsequent link on Lynn's page is of Angelica Munce Miller, with her brother James H. Muncey and his wife Hester Annie Cork Muncey.
Debbie: On the phone last night you mentioned another bit of confusion, having to do with Angelina Munce Dean, sister of Angelica Munce Miller. However, I cannot find what we discussed. I did notice that if you go to the "D" page of the Mitsawokett photos, there is a listing for "Angelina Munce Dean." This link takes you to the same Lynn-page as when clicking from the Mitsawokett "M" page on "Angelina Munce (Dean)." She is listed once alphabetically by her maiden name, and once by her married name, but both take you to Lynn's page, which has a secondary link for "Angelina Munce." The photo displayed is correct. This is the tin-type photo that I gave Harry Muncey, which I received with the Cott material from Michigan back in the 1970's.
Is what you're saying: that this photo is listed somewhere else, but with someone else's name? If so, what name?
Thanks,
John
From: "John
C. Carter" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Subject: FW: Line spacingDate: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 19:48:01 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty.
How are you?
All is well here. I just picked up the Aug 20th photos this afternoon, from the place I'd taken them to have photos made from the files (took them in on a diskette). They came out pretty good.
Anyway, wanted to let you know that I played around on my computer at work today, and found something that might help the spacing problem on your email format. Can't remember what kind of email program you're using, but if it's at all related to Microsoft, or patterned after their email, you should have a toolbar on top where you can click on something like:
"Format"
"Paragraph"
Then, options for: "Spacing Before" / "Spacing After" / "Line Spacing"
If you set all these to 0, perhaps it will take care of the problem.
Or, maybe this won't help, with your program.
Anyway, just thought I'd pass this along, for what it's worth.
Take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Carter, John
C. [SMTP:jccarter@]Sent:
Wednesday, August 29, 2001 9:06 AMTo:
'spiff@'Subject:
Line spacing
For the Terrys:
Format,
Paragraph,
Spacing Before / Spacing After / Line Spacing (at)From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'bettyandrayterry@'" Subject: RE: Catching up....Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 22:27:03 -0400X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211MIME-Version: 1.0Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Taking a few moments out of watching the TV coverage of the tragedies in NY & DC to try to answer a few emails.....>> We adjusted the link to the wrong photo ID,>> deleting Angeline's photo where we had>> confused her name with Angelica's.
Thanks!>> ...problem with the links to Angelica Munce Dean...
It's working fine now. Thanks!>> We can look up items for you as time permits,>> tho you likely mean intensive research adapted>> to your interests.
Thanks again!>> We did call the Library of Congress about>> Daniel Coker's book and were assured>> that they had no such cat. It does not show>> up online either.
I appreciate the effort. This is certainly a mystery. I sent off another message to the researcher who claimed she had obtained her copy from the Library of Congress, but I hold out little hope that she will reply. I have attempted to gain more information from her previously, with no luck. But she'd said it was in a collection referred to as the "Peter Force Papers" in the manuscript division. This (to look for this journal) will be my #1 goal if & when I ever get a chance to visit DC.>> We hope your photos (taken at Ned's)>> came out OK.
Sorry, but I didn't take any photos that day. You probably saw me go to my car and bring my camera back to the area in Ned's back yard, but I never took it out nor took any photos. I did notice an ever-so-slight color "tinge" to the photos you took, but overall I thought they were good. I downloaded them onto a diskette, took the diskette to a photo developer, and had them print the images on photographic paper. I put them in my album, and they look fine. I'm happy to have a record of that day's event. I don't know of anyone else taking photos other than you, so we are fortunate.>> Well, hope you did not give up on replies>> from us. We are REALLY cleaning out>> our house.
No problem. I thought you might have gone on a sudden trip somewhere, perhaps to Florida as you had been speculating about. I was going to ask you if you were still planning on coming down, but I guess all travel plans are up-in-the-air now (no pun intended). I myself am due to fly to Maine (actually, to NH, and then driving to ME) with three friends a week from Saturday. Although I'm not sure whether to expect flight schedules to return to some form of normalcy by then, I'm not at all worried about flying itself. I expect the skies will be quite safe for a while now, with all the extra security measures they'll be taking.
And, as if the NY & DC tragedies weren't enough, we now have Tropical Storm Gabrielle bearing down right for us, with the possibility that it will be a hurricane by the time it makes landfall. Our company's computer system, mutual fund processing, trading capabilities, etc. are all in chaos as a result of the closing of the NYSE, etc. I work for Franklin Templeton Investments, and I'm in the department responsible for all communications concerning the computer system which handles our funds, and each day since Tuesday has been getting steadily worse, in terms of figuring out how to handle all of this. Today was a nightmare. And now we have a possible hurricane heading right for us! However, our CEO has declared tomorrow a half-day, in honor of the lives lost in the tragedies. Not sure if I'll get to leave early, though. Thankfully, we have an office in California as well, and either coast is capable of covering for the other.
Within the last year, our company had acquired Fiduciary Trust, who were on the (94th & 95th?) (95th & 96th) floors of Tower 2 of the World Trade Center. From what we've been told, most of the fellow employees there were able to evacuate after the first plane hit and before the 2nd plane hit.
It will be very interesting to see what happens around the world in the coming future as a result of all this........
Well, that's enough for now.
Take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Betty & Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]Sent:
Saturday, September 08, 2001 10:26 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
RE: Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photos
Hi
John
,Yup, been busy. We will answer yourmessages (sorry to take so long).We were so glad to finally meet you. Youhave done such wonderfully dedicated work that we too were sorry we couldnot share some discoveries at the Archives. But thanks for taking the time to come down to Camden after your naming ceremony. We are disappointedthat the "important" members of our group, mother and daughter, chose notto come. If you click on "Catherine 2," ittakes you to a page of Hewitt "Hugh" Angelica Songo (Durham)Durham. The first photo on this page is incorrect. The photodisplayed there is of AngeliNa Munce Dean. This is the photo that Igave Harry Muncey many years ago. Also, I just tried to go to the link for Angelina Munce Dean, both via the "D" page and the "M" page, and both links came back as errors and unable to display the page. So somethingseems to be not working there also.We adjusted the link to the wrong photo ID,deleting Angeline's photo where we had confused her name withAngelica's.There is a problem with the links to AngelicaMunce Dean. We will have to play with it more. I for one had never been tothe Archives before, and knew if would probably be years before I everwould again, and I was eager for some nosingaround in there. Alas, the time was so short, all it achieved was to makeme depressed as we exited, knowing there was so much information in there, but out of time and unable to reach it.We can look up items for you as time permits, thoyou likely mean intensive research adapted to your interests. We did callthe Library of Congress about Daniel Coker's book and were assuredthat they had no such cat. It does not show up online either.(...the item I'm trying to obtain is a "Volume 2," and Ialready have a copy of "Volume 1" which I got a few years ago. And although Ican't clearly remember the particulars of when I ordered it, I know I got itthrough inter-library loan, and it is stamped "Library of Congress, U.S.A., Washington" on the first page of the copies. And I just looked on page 2 of theVol. 1 copies, and it has an image of a card reading "microfilmed 1972, Libraryof Congress photoduplication service." Anyway, this is thetitle of Volume 1: "Journal of Daniel Coker, a Descendant ofAfrica, From the Time of Leaving New York, in the Ship Elizabeth, Capt. Sebor,on a Voyage for Sherbro, in Africa, in Company with Three Agents, and About Ninety Persons of Colour." (whew!) Published 1820.)We hope your photos (taken at Ned's) came outOK. We were troubled by some of them. The colors would notbalance. We have a lot to learn! As usual. If you're speaking of a place onthe Yahoo Mitsawokett home page at which links/URLs can be attached, go to themain Mitsawokett page (on Yahoo), and click on "Bookmarks" in the left-hand column.Thanks! We thought there was something likethat but could not find it.An answer to the line spacing problemis being sought from Earthlink. The solution you found does not apply tothis browser.Well, hope you did not give up on repliesfrom us. We are REALLY cleaning out our house. This is a big jobsince we had 5 kids and 2 sets of parents living with us at one time or anotherand all left plenty of STUFF here!Take care,B R----- Original Message -----From: John
C. CarterTo: Terry, Betty RayCc: Unger, Debbie PierceSent: 9/3/01 1:36:48 AMSubject: RE: Slight confusion withMitsawokett photos
Hi, Ray Betty.How are you? Haven't heard from you in a while. Hopeall is well.I was over at Debbie's this evening, (or actually, yesterday, since it'safter 1:30am now!), and she mentioned she had come across the infamousmis-named photo of Angelica Songo Durham again while going through thephotographs on the Mitsawokett website. She gave me a few clues,and aftersearching around some, I found it! She is indeedcorrect. There is amis-named photo on the site.Here is the way to find it:Go to the "D" photos.For Catherine Durham, there are two links: one entitled"Catherine Durham1" and one entitled "Catherine 2."If you click on "Catherine 2," it takes you to a page of Hewitt "Hugh"Angelica Songo (Durham) Durham. The first photo on this page isincorrect.The photo displayed there is of AngeliNa Munce Dean. This is thephotothat I gave Harry Muncey many years ago.Also, I just tried to go to the link for Angelina Munce Dean, both via the"D" page and the "M" page, and both links came back as errors and unable to display the page. So something seems to be not working therealso.Hope this helps.Anyway, this mystery is now solved! :-)Let me know if you have any questions.Thanks,John
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@ ]Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 10:25 PMTo: spiff@Subject: RE: Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photos
Hi
John
,We made sure that we removed the Songo fromAngelica Songo Munce. She is listed under both the Munce andDeansurnames. There is no Angelica Songo Durham that we couldfind.Have you heard anything about a time to meet atNed's on Aug 20?Cheers!
-----Original Message-----
From: John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@ ]Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:59 PMTo: 'Terry, Betty Ray'Subject: RE: Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photos
Hi, Ray Betty.Debbie and I have been discussing the purported photo of Angelica SongoDurham, and I keep telling her there is no such photo on Mitsawokett, andshe says there is. She is very swamped with her job, etc, andwill checkthe Mitsawokett site again in a couple of days.But I think she's mistaken it with MAHALA Songo Durham. (Andthat photois fine).I will keep you posted.Thanks,John
-----Original Message-----
From:DEBORAHPUNGER@ [SMTP:DEBORAHPUNGER@ ]Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 11:27 PMTo: spiff@; bettyandrayterry@Subject: Re: Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photos
Hi
John
and Ray Betty,I have tried to copy John
's message, this is my response - hopefullycoherent.1. The photo John
speaks of titled "Angelica Songo Munce" etc. I wascuriousabout this one since I have forever been in hunt of Angelica SongoDURHAM,and never came across another Angelica Songo. ??2. The tin-type photo of Angelina Munce Dean ALSO appears under thenameAngelica Songo Durham.well, maybe this isn't as confusing as it first appeared. thanks,John
Debbie
-----Original Message-----
From: John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@ ]Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 11:50 PMTo: 'Terry, Betty Ray'Cc: 'Unger, Debbie'Subject: Slight confusion with Mitsawokett photos
Hi, Ray Betty.Debbie and I spoke last night, and she has been corresponding with afellow cousin about a couple of the photos listed on the Mitsawokettwebsite, and it seems there is some confusion.On the "M" page, there is a listing for "Angelica SongoMunce." Who isthis? When you click on the link, it takes us to one of Lynn'spages,where there are several listings, one of which is for "Angelica Munce."However, this is Angelica Munce Miller, wife of George Miller. Idon'trecall ever hearing of an Angelica Songo Munce. There was anAngelicaSongo DURHAM, wife of Hewitt "Hughy" Durham, but I don't know of anyAngelica Songo Munce. The photo shown when you follow thesubsequent linkon Lynn's page is of Angelica Munce Miller, with her brother James H.Muncey and his wife Hester Annie Cork Muncey.Debbie: On the phone last night you mentioned another bit ofconfusion,having to do with Angelina Munce Dean, sister of Angelica Munce Miller.However, I cannot find what we discussed. I did notice that ifyou go tothe "D" page of the Mitsawokett photos, there is a listing for "AngelinaMunce Dean." This link takes you to the same Lynn-page as whenclickingfrom the Mitsawokett "M" page on "Angelina Munce (Dean)." She islistedonce alphabetically by her maiden name, and once by her married name, butboth take you to Lynn's page, which has a secondary link for "AngelinaMunce." The photo displayed is correct. This is thetin-type photo that Igave Harry Muncey, which I received with the Cott material from Michiganback in the 1970's.Is what you're saying: that this photo is listed somewhere else,but withsomeone else's name? If so, what name?Thanks,John
---------------------------------------------------------------Betty Ray Terrybettyandrayterry@From: "John
C. Carter" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Subject: Marjorie Latisha "Latisha" Hughes MosleyDate: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 16:46:21 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Have you seen this obituary yet? Just heard about it today.....
She was a daughter of John
"Jack" Hughes and Esther Carter Hughes. Esther is in turn the daughter of George W. Carter and Sallie Bell Carney Carter.
Thanks,
John
From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Heite, Ned'" , "'Terry, Betty & Ray'"
, "'Unger, Debbie Pierce'"
, "'Jackson, Lynn'" , "'Ridgeway, Rose Marie'" , "'Gregg, Lorraine'" To: "'Coker, Dennis'" , "'Gould, Mark'"
, "'Blume, Cara'" , "'Ridgeway, Urie'" , "'Mosley, Will'" , "'Lenape Indian Tribe of Delaware'" To: "'Kressman, Annabelle Carney'" , "'Sandy, Bill'"
Subject: Published evidence to support Cheswold / Millsboro connectionsDate: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 23:07:48 -0400
Hello, all.
This message is way overdue, as this is something I had planned to do right after returning home from NJ and DE last month. Each weekend I kept thinking I was going to have a chance to get it done, and each weekend something else kept coming up. My original intention was to try to organize this into some type of coherent report, sort of like a "mini-thesis" to outline our case of "connectedness" between the Millsboro group and the Cheswold (and subsequently New Jersey) groups. However, in an effort to just go ahead and get these bits of information out there for everyone's use and reference, I think I'll just put all the excerpts in a list, so they will be available for whoever might need them, for refuting the Clarks, getting Bloomsbury released, working toward governmental recognition (of the Cheswold group), etc.
Please feel free to offer any constructive comments, corrections, etc.
To start with, in their reasons why the Bloomsbury report shouldn't be released, the Clarks stated (according to messages from Ned dated 7/25 and 7/27) that the Bloomsbury report only quoted from Weslager and not Speck or Tantaquidgeon. Ned, has this been uncovered in writing yet? Have the Clarks delivered any type of written statement quoting such? Or at least, are the associates at the governor's office and DELDOT (and the Bloomsbury consultant) familiar with this line of verbal rebuttal from the Clarks?
At any rate, to quote from Speck:[note: as I'm sure you all know, Delawares or Delaware tribe = what are usually referred to today as Lenapes or Lenni-Lenape tribe]. JCC
From p. 9 of "Indians of the Eastern Shore of Maryland," by F. G. Speck of the Department of Anthropology, University of Pennsylvania, 1922:
"Evidently the present Nanticoke at Indian River are descendants of the nucleus which originally stayed in Delaware after the general break-up of national life about 1748. The country north of the Indian River district, according to surviving tradition, was neutral ground between the Nanticoke and the Delawares proper, who, the former assert, were not always on the best of terms with the Nanticoke of Indian River. This would make the ancestry of the Cheswold branch of the Indian descendants in Delaware not fundamentally Nanticoke, but Delaware. Of course it should be remembered that intermarriage and removals have been frequent between the two bands, so that now, to all intents, they are practically the same...."
From p. 17 of "Indians of the Eastern Shore of Maryland," by F. G. Speck of the Department of Anthropology, University of Pennsylvania, 1922:
"Map showing the location of the Algonkian peoples of Maryland. (Triangles indicate known settlements where their mixed-blood descendants still reside)."
[in the state of Delaware on the map, triangles are located at both Cheswold and Indian River]. JCC
Incidental note, from p. 6 of "Indians of the Eastern Shore of Maryland," by F. G. Speck of the Department of Anthropology, University of Pennsylvania, 1922:
[two photographs are shown, under the heading of] "Nanticoke Types in Delaware." [one of the photographs is labeled as] "Mrs. Burton Street and children, with wooden mortar for pounding corn."
[while I'm not sure, this could possibly be Clara Carney Street, daughter of James H. Carney (b. 26 Dec 1861) and Mary E. John
son (b. Apr 1868), whom my records indicate (source Lorraine John
son Gregg) married Burton Street as her 2nd husband. Needs to be researched further, to determine if this is the same Mrs. Burton Street. If so, it's indicative of intermarriage between the groups, since the Carneys were from Cheswold].
Frank G. Speck's publication, "The Nanticoke and Conoy Indians," published by the Historical Society of Delaware in 1927 does not specifically mention the Cheswold group, but does make these statements which are indicative of their relationship with the Delaware (aka Lenape):
From p. 32 of "The Nanticoke and Conoy Indians," by Frank G. Speck, Historical Society of Delaware, 1927:
"The close association of the Nanticoke with the Delaware throughout their entire history leads to the mention of some characteristics supposed to have been borrowed by the Delaware from the Nanticoke."
From p. 36 of "The Nanticoke and Conoy Indians," by Frank G. Speck, Historical Society of Delaware, 1927:
"The next source dealing with the Nanticoke language comes from the pen of John
Heckwelder, a Moravian missionary established on the Susquehanna. He had extensive dealings with the Delawares and also made reference to the other fugitive tribes who made their way to this region as they were working their way to the protection of the Six Nations. Heckwelder collected material from the Indians of his mission, hence his Nanticoke terms represent a different period of Nanticoke history."
Among the photographs in this publication are the following:
Warren Wright
Isaac William Harmon
Jane Harmon
Patience Harmon
Annie Harmon
Arthur John
son
Eliza Ann John
son
Perhaps some of these individuals can be tied to Cheswold connections...?
Along the line of dispute by the Clarks, I do not have the publication by Gladys Tantaquidgeon. I plan to try to obtain a copy through inter-library loan.
On another note:
Ned, one of your messages said that the Clarks also objected to the fact that the Bloomsbury report did not make reference to the 1881 school district law. I'm not familiar with the specifics of that one, but this did remind me of another law on the books of Delaware, of which Lynn Jackson had sent me a photocopy WAY back in the late 1970's, when we first began our research. It took me a while to find the copy, and I'm not really sure if this will provide any help to Dennis and the Delaware Lenape. Its references to "Nanticoke Indians" make me think it was spawned by some effort of the Millsboro group. However, it does mention the interesting line "formerly of Sussex County but at present located in the several counties of this State." Anyway, here it is:
"Chapter 470
Miscellaneous
An act to better establish the identity of a race of people known as the offspring of the Nanticoke Indians.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the State of Delaware in General Assembly met:
Section 1. That the class of people, known as the descendants of the Nanticoke Indians, formerly of Sussex County but at present located in the several counties of this State, desiring to migrate, may appear before any Justice of the Peace or Notary Public, of this State, and on the evidence and proof that he or she belongs to or is a descendant of the Nanticoke Indians, may procure from such Justice of the Peace or Notary Public, a certificate reciting such facts.
Section 2. That after the approval of this Act the descendants of the Nanticoke Indians named in Section 1 of this Act shall hereafter be recognized as such within the State of Delaware.
Section 3. This Act shall be deemed a public Act.
Approved March 23, A.D. 1903."
Another author who has produced sources of information on the Native American peoples of Delaware is Frank W. Porter III. In his PhD dissertation for the University of Maryland, he notes the following:
From p. 15 of PhD dissertation entitled "Quest for Identity: The Formation of the Nanticoke Indian Community at Indian River Inlet, Sussex County, Delaware," by Frank W. Porter III, University of Maryland, 1978:
The author displays a table, "Indian-White-Negro Racial Isolates in Maryland and Delaware." In this table, he lists a total of 530 individuals in Delaware, with 400 being from Sussex County and 130 being from Kent County.
A reference below the table states "based on Beale, pp. 192-193." (refers to Beale's "American Tri-Racial Isolates: Their Status and Pertinence to Genetic Research" in "Eugenics Quarterly," December 1957).
From pp. 101-102 of PhD dissertation entitled "Quest for Identity: The Formation of the Nanticoke Indian Community at Indian River Inlet, Sussex County, Delaware," by Frank W. Porter III, University of Maryland, 1978:
"In 1898 William H. Babcock ... became the first professional anthropologist to visit the Nanticoke Indian community ... a decade passed before Frank G. Speck began his ethnologic fieldwork among the Nanticoke under the sponsorship of the Heye Foundation, The Museum of the American Indian ... In the interim period M. R. Harrington visited in May of 1908 Indian River and Cheswold, an off-shoot of the Indian River group, and obtained several ethnological specimens for George G. Heye, the founder of the Museum of the American Indian in New York City."
From p. 113 of PhD dissertation entitled "Quest for Identity: The Formation of the Nanticoke Indian Community at Indian River Inlet, Sussex County, Delaware," by Frank W. Porter III, University of Maryland, 1978:
"One final note involves Eulalie Loatman, a resident of New Jersey and of Nanticoke descent, who wrote a novel about the Nanticoke, but apparently it was never published." [The footnote for this refers to communication from Eulalie Loatman to C. A. Weslager, dated 29 Feb 1944, and contained within Weslager's manuscripts].
[Of interest here is Eulalie's ancestry, her grandparents being (paternal) Samuel Loatman, Sr. (b. 1827 in Woodland Beach, Kent County, DE) and Sarah Sammons (b. 1839 in Kent County, DE) and (maternal) Edward Concealler (b. 1824) (in Kent County?) and Prudence Simons/Sammons (b. ca 1827-8 in Kent County, DE). She is noteworthy in being descended from members of the Kent County community and yet she is referred to as being "of Nanticoke descent"]. JCC
From p. 115 of PhD dissertation entitled "Quest for Identity: The Formation of the Nanticoke Indian Community at Indian River Inlet, Sussex County, Delaware," by Frank W. Porter III, University of Maryland, 1978:
"Together, Speck and Weslager discovered a strong tradition of herb cures, folklore, and material culture which indicated direct links with an aboriginal heritage among several families in Cheswold."
More sources of note:
From p. 107 of "Magic Medicines of the Indians," by C. A. Weslager, 1973:
"A second group of mixed-blood people, also numbering several hundred, lives in the environs of Cheswold in Kent County, Delaware. Although they have Indian blood in their ancestry, they never formed a tribal organization. Locally these people are called "Moors," although they are unrelated to the Spanish Moslems who have the same name. Investigations among the Delaware Moors, starting in the fall of 1941, led me to conclude that the ancestry of many of the families included both Delaware and Nanticoke Indians. The Moors themselves were aware that they had Indian blood, but they had very little knowledge about the specific tribal affiliations of their ancestors."
From p. 110 of "Magic Medicines of the Indians," by C. A. Weslager, 1973:
"A number of the identical herb cures known to the Nanticokes were also familiar to some of the Moor families living at Cheswold, Delaware. Previous to my investigations in the Moor community no ethnographic studies had been carried on among these mixed-blood people."
From p. 118 of "Magic Medicines of the Indians," by C. A. Weslager, 1973:
"Apart from their herb cures, both the Moors at Cheswold and the Nanticokes at Oak Orchard told me about some of the other home remedies formerly used by their people. Most of these cures had also fallen into disuse at the time of my inquiries, but were once widely administered."
From p. 120 of "Magic Medicines of the Indians," by C. A. Weslager, 1973:
"To Cure Boils
An old Indian doctor woman named Mary Morgan, who lived at Cheswold, could heal boils by waving a table fork over them, meanwhile 'pow-wowing' (talking under her breath)."
From p. 1 of "Folklore Among the Nanticokes of Indian River Hundred & the Moors of Cheswold, Delaware," by C. A. Weslager, published in the "Delaware Folklore Bulletin," Vol. 1, No. 5, March 1955:
"In 'Delaware's Forgotten Folk,' (University of Pennsylvania Press, 1943) I enumerated certain herb cures, bird lore, weather signs, and other miscellaneous folklore of the Cheswold Moors, a second group of Delaware mixed-bloods closely related physically to the Nanticokes."
From p. 277 of "American Anthropologist," New Series, Vol. 1, 1899 (reprinted 1962), paper entitled "The Nanticoke Indians of Indian River, Delaware," by William H. Babcock:
"There are two remnants of Indian population in eastern Delaware, not far from the coast,--the so-called Moors of Kent county and the more southerly Nanticokes on Indian river in Sussex county. ...the contention of the Nanticokes that there is not much in common between the two peoples ... They consider the Chesholm [sic] [Cheswold] people to be a mixture of Delaware Indians with some Moorish or other foreign strain. According to their tradition the Nanticoke and Delaware tribes were often at war in the old time, and even yet there would seem to be a barrier of rather more than indifference between them."
From p. 721 of "American Anthropologist," Vol. 74, June 1972, paper entitled "The Physical Anthropology and Genetics of Marginal People of the Southeastern United States," by William S. Pollitzer:
Map entitled "Surviving Indian Groups in the Eastern United States," (reprinted from "Almost White" by Brewton Berry, Macmillan Co, New York, 1963), showing "Indian and/or Mestizo Communities" at both Cheswold and Indian River.
Another interesting excerpt from a PhD dissertation:
From pp. 30-31 of PhD dissertation entitled "A Study of the Speech of the Nanticoke Indians of Indian River Hundred, Sussex County, Delaware," by Mary-Braeme Parker, Louisiana State University, 1953:
"In June of 1952, I made my first visits to the homes of the Nanticokes, going first to see the former teacher of the Nanticoke Indian School, Winona Wright. Mrs. Wright is the wife of Oscar Wright, younger brother of informant Warren Wright, charter member of the Nanticoke Indian Association and one of the first Councilmen of the Association....
"She spoke with deep sincerity of her wish for the welfare of the children of the Nanticoke community. She regrets that she is no longer in charge of the school and wishes that her certification as a teacher, now expired, might be renewed. She spoke with resentment of the fact that the present teacher of the school, Cleo Coker, calls herself a Moor, and not an Indian, thereby, Winona said, doing the Nanticoke Indian Association an injury. The Moorish legend, Winona implied, has no basis in fact, and the people who say that they are Moors are, in reality, of the same racial stock as the Nanticokes....
"Mrs. Coker was born Cleo Durham of Cheswold, Delaware...."
[note: Mrs. Coker is Brenda Cleo Durham Coker, (1920-1994), daughter of William Thomas Durham (1890-1973) and Maymie Caroline Coxey Beckett Durham (1894-1969), and was wife of James B. Coker, first cousin of Dennis' father, Carlton Coker]. JCC
Later, after interviewing Mrs. Coker herself, the author writes (p. 32):
"Cleo told me that she will not remain much longer as teacher of the Nanticoke children at Indian River because, she said, there are too many dissensions [sic] and too many antagonistic factions among the people of the community."
Also, (p. 33):
"The enrollment of pupils in the Nanticoke school for the year 1951-52 was 20, a small enrollment for a community of probably more than 700 mixed-blood people, most of whom are related by blood and marriage ties."
And, on p. 34:
"From Mrs. Coker's, I went to see Patience Harmon, the Secretary of the Nanticoke Indian Association.... She showed me the minutes of the Nanticoke Indian Association. There were, at the time of my last visit in August of 1952, 86 members in the Association, a small number when one considers that in 1943 Weslager estimated the number of mixed-blood people in Indian River Hundred to be approximately 700."
From p. 49:
"It is at least interesting, if not significant, to note that the young people of the Nanticoke community marry within their own community or among the Moors of Cheswold, or occasionally, a member of another race."- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Well, that's about all I can come up with at this time, without further digging. It took me quite a while to sort through the material above, as well as through many other sources not quoted here, of which I have been gathering since my research began in the mid-1970's. But it was an enlightening experience, as I had not read many of these items for quite a few years! I've also "re-discovered" several notations in these sources' bibliographies, referring to other publications I've never seen, and now hope to seek out.
[Debbie: Didn't you mention you had a good quote from a Smithsonian publication of some type?]
One other note:
Other than the few quotes from Weslager, above, I have refrained from searching further among Weslager's other publications, even though I have several, since the Clarks have already voiced an objection to his work. However, as I'm sure many on this list know, several of Weslager's works have portrayed the connections between the Cheswold and Millsboro groups.
I was hoping to also put together a separate e-mail, entitled "Genealogical evidence to support...," but don't have as much documented genealogical specifics to tie the Millsboro and Cheswold groups together as I would like. I will still attempt to pull something together, which will probably be largely undocumented, and perhaps others can attach and/or share supporting documentation or add additional connections.
I'm not sure when I can get this together, however. This week is very hectic at work, in light of last weeks' tragedies (I work in the financial industry), and I leave this weekend for a week-long trip out of state. But I hope to delve into the research again as soon as possible.
Again, please let me know of any comments or corrections.
Thanks!
John
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 02:51:56 -0400To: "spiff@" From: ned heite Subject: Re: Published evidence to support Cheswold / Millsboro connectionsCc: "'Heite, Ned'" , "'Terry, Betty & Ray'"
, "'Unger, Debbie Pierce'"
, "'Jackson, Lynn'" , "'Ridgeway, Rose Marie'" , "'Gregg, Lorraine'" , cblume6@Thanks, John
.It looks as if the DelDOT machine is actually moving. Denny Coker was given the resume of the proposed consultant and asked to respond by Wednesday. The consultant will be asked to finish by the end of this month!There are only two questions, according to the letter from DelDOT:1. Does the report meet Section 106 requirements? This stems, I am sure, from Jay Custer's accusation that the report does not come up to the standards of a Section 106 report.2. Is the report sufficiently documented to allow its release to the public? This was the Clarks' main point, of course. They claim that Cara and I are biased against the Lenape. Since they have never presented a coherent written argument against the report, there is no way we can really respond.However, we have asked Denny to insist that we be given an opportunity to respond, and to supply citations for any places where the documentation is missing. In fact, this is the kind of documentation we will need at that time.Thanks very much, John
.-- *****ned@From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Jackson, Lynn'" , "'Terry, Betty & Ray'"
Cc: "'Heite, Ned'" Subject: "Journal of Thoams Dean," 1817Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 21:42:57 -0400X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211MIME-Version: 1.0Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi, Lynn, Ray & Betty.
Have you ever encountered this publication before?
I'm curious as to its possible value in our research....
I found it in the bibliography of the PhD dissertation "Our Fires Have Nearly Gone Out: A History of Indian-White Relations on the Colonial Maryland Frontier, 1633-1776," by Debra Ruth Boender, University of New Mexico, 1988. It's currently being offered on Bibliofind for $30 plus $5 shipping. When I first saw it in the dissertation's bibliography I was very intrigued (based on the name Dean, and of our group's earlier discoveries of migrations from DE to the Indiana area), but after I saw in the blurb below that he was from New York, I'm not so sure it would be pertinent.... However, there were migrations to the Oneida area as well....
Thanks,
John
- - - - - - - - - -Dean, Thomas. Journal of Thomas Dean: A Voyage to Indiana in 1817.Edited by John
Candee Dean. Annotated by Randle C. Dean. Indiana Historical Society Publications: Vol. 6, No.2. Indianapolis, 1918. Octavo, printed wrappers. Pp.[273]-345, illustrated. Marginal wrinkling to two leaves; some small spots on cover, but still a very good copy. The journey was made entirely by boat (with portages in between), from central New York to central Indiana, in order to secure land in the West for the Brothertown Indians (actually the remnants of seven tribes of New England Indians), then living in Oneida County in the State of New York. It is difficult to believe that this modern Jason, toiling through the forests of Indiana with a heavy pack, swimming rivers to get his boat over rapids, sleeping on beds of wet brush and leaves in forests, sometimes without food, and living like an Indian, had left behind him...a large, beautiful home...Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 22:52:55 -0400To: "spiff@" From: ned heite Subject: Re: "Journal of Thoams Dean," 1817Cc: "'Jackson, Lynn'" , "'Terry, Betty & Ray'"
, "'Heite, Ned'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"Brothertown? Not Brotherton, New Jersey,?*****ned@* Jerry Falwell claims the Trade Center ** bombings were caused by the ACLU, gays and ** lesbians. Everyone else blames right-wing ** extremist religious fanatics. *From: "John
C. Carter" To: "'bettyandrayterry@'" Subject: RE: Published evidence to support Cheswold / Millsboro connectionsDate: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 18:55:29 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty.
I don't know that that would be such a good idea right now, (especially since there are some Millsboro lurkers on the list!)
Perhaps after Bloomsbury is out and published. Or...even then we might want to check with Dennis first, and see if it will jeopardize their attempt for recognition.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Betty & Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]Sent:
Wednesday, September 19, 2001 5:41 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
RE: Published evidence to support Cheswold / Millsboro connectionsJohn
, nice job! If you wish to post to theweb site, let us know.B RFrom: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Subject: RE: Tornado!Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 10:16:56 -0400X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211MIME-Version: 1.0Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi, Ray & Betty--
Sorry for the late reply.
I have just returned from a week-long vacation out-of-state. Whereas I was able to access and view my email through a friend's computer, I was unable to reply. I think it was a combination of my service-provider's net-access website and the fact that my friend's computer was a MacIntosh.
Anyway--
Wow, sorry to hear about the tense moments and collateral damage in your area. I had not heard anything about it.
Hope all is patching up well.
Take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Mitsawokett@ [SMTP:Mitsawokett@]Sent:
Wednesday, September 26, 2001 6:16 AMTo:
Mitsawokett@Subject:
[Mitsawokett] Digest Number 807Message: 2 Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 23:3:40 -0400 From: "Betty & Ray Terry" Subject: Tornado!We survived the tornado! No damage to ourproperty or familys, but the neighborhood beginning a 1/2 mile south onMontgomery Rd. was extensively damaged as to trees and telephone poles.The twister must have gone thru there above roof level for very few homes havedamage and most do not have shingles blown off. The damageoccurred from falling trees, limbs and flying debris. The lights came on15 minutes ago. The first time we have had to go without electricity for29 hours! We had been told to expect 2-3 days moreoutage.5:30 P.M. Monday, September 24, 2001. My friend, Phil Sirk, who is themanage of the Student Book Store at the U of M, received a hysterical call fromhis wife, Roxanna. On her way to pick up their son, Bryan, she was being chasedby a tornado on US Route 1 north of the University of Maryland. She screamedthat the twister was ripping up telephone poles behind her and would soonovertake her vehicle. Phil put her call on the sound system at work and had some of his people call 911 while he continued to speak with Roxanna. Muchlike thedestroying angel in ancient Egypt, the twister passed over her butcontinued toward their son Bryan's day care center. It passed over thecenter without much damage save for fallen trees.The Sirks' experience with the storm has become a metaphor for the membersof our church's congregation.We have determined that all of them and their homes werepreserved. The path of the tornado cut a swath about 1/2 mile widefrom its formulation by the south entrance to the University of Maryland. It"hooked" its way up University Boulevard mowing down trees and destroying thetennis tent by the golf course and the temporary construction sheds by the newfine arts theater. It then slammed into the northwest corner of the Universitykilling two students, causing major structural damage to the high-rise dorms,destroying many parked cars and displacing 3000 students. It moved relentlesslynorth ripping the roofs off of a Pentecostal Church and a Home Depot at the intersection of US Routes 1 95/495. All local emergency response crewshave been working since Tuesday evening to deal with multiple injuries and beginrecovery operations. US 1 north of the University to north ofBeltsville is currently closed.Our friends the Packers suffered six fallen trees (snapped off 1/2 way up), all of which fell AWAY from their house. They did no damage to others,either.We were eating dinner with friends at our house when the storm came, but we noticed nothing other than rain, some lightning and thunder (whichoccurred rather close together, so we knew the lightning was striking close to Beltsville). The lights went out so we dug out some candles andfinished dinner. Our friends departed and we became curious when thesirens did not fade away but increased in intensity, seemingly all aroundus. So we drove south to see what was the reason for the lights out andjust general nosiness, shortly to be stunned. We had not a clue that a 160 mph storm had passed so close to us!!!!9/11, 9/25 -- going to hell in a handbasket fairly rapidly here,folks.---------------------------------------------------------------Betty Ray Terrybettyandrayterry@To: "'Mitsawokett List'" X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211From: "John
C. Carter" MIME-Version: 1.0Mailing-List: list Mitsawokett@; contact Mitsawokett-owner@Delivered-To: mailing list Mitsawokett@Precedence: bulkList-Unsubscribe: Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 10:58:25 -0400Reply-To: Mitsawokett@Subject: [Mitsawokett] ****PLEASE****Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCIIContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello, all.
OK, I'm probably going to start an argument with this message, but I'm sorry I cannot hold my tongue any longer.
Please, please, PLEASE, everyone, this list is supposed to be a list pertaining to the genealogies of the Native American peoples associated with the intertwined communities of Delaware, southern New Jersey, and Maryland, along with the history and culture pertaining to these ancestors.
Yes, we are currently living in a stressful time, and patriotism abounds, but this list is NOT the place for postings of that nature. Nor is it a place for virus warnings, cheer-up messages, recipes, etc. There has been WAY too much spam on this list lately, and I would ask that everyone please take a moment to think about the subject of what they're sending before they click on "send."
For those wishing to post commentary relating to the recent tragedies, RootsWeb has created a special message board specifically for those kinds of posts. Please see the message attached below.
For all other subjects, with a little searching one can find lists or boards for those topics as well.
PLEASE--
Let's keep the postings to Mitsawokett confined to what it was created for, as it explains on the main Yahoo page for this list: of or relating to "the history and genealogy of the Indian families that originated in the territory of Mitsawokett, now known as Kent County, Delaware." Or, as it explains on the main page: "The History and Genealogy of the Native American Isolate Communities of Kent County, Delaware, and Surrounding Areas on the DelMarVa Peninsula and Southern New Jersey."
All other subject posts belong elsewhere.
Thanks for listening.
Sincerely,
John
To: "'Mitsawokett List'" X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211From: "John
C. Carter" MIME-Version: 1.0Mailing-List: list Mitsawokett@; contact Mitsawokett-owner@Delivered-To: mailing list Mitsawokett@Precedence: bulkList-Unsubscribe: Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 07:03:43 -0400Reply-To: Mitsawokett@Subject: [Mitsawokett] *** ONCE AGAIN: PLEASE STOP ***Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCIIContent-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On October 1st, Lee wrote:>> Did this message come through the list?>> And another, totally off the subject, from the>> same sender?>> Lee Morse
Yes, Lee.
This is precisely the type of messages that need to PLEASE stop.
Thank-you for pointing this out.
Once again, everyone:
This is NOT a list for general Native American interests. This is a list for items SPECIFICALLY relating to the Native American and related ancestries of KENT COUNTY, DELAWARE and the SURROUNDING COMMUNITY.
There are many, many other lists geared toward general Native American interests. I'm sure nearly everyone will agree that if we wish to see posts of that type, we can sign up on any number of the other lists.
Many of us receive this Mitsawokett list in digest form, and it is not as easy to delete the messages that are irrelevant to our research.
Once again, PLEASE stop sending messages which have no relevance to the genealogy and history of "the Native American Isolate Communities of Kent County, Delaware, and Surrounding Areas on the DelMarVa Peninsula and Southern New Jersey."
All other subject posts belong elsewhere.
Once again, thank-you.
(And thanks to everyone who sent replies of agreement!)
Sincerely,
** No hard feelings, just make it stop! **
Thanks,
John
From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Subject: FW: please also forward to betty's new addr.Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 19:30:35 -0400X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211MIME-Version: 1.0Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Forwarding per request.
JCC
-----Original Message-----
From:
Dol -Sol [SMTP:dol_sol@]Sent:
Tuesday, October 02, 2001 9:30 AMTo:
spiff@Cc:
ned@Subject:
please also forward to betty's new addr.attn. John
(& copy to Terrys & Ned) -- as you will see below, this "Lee" actually was not commenting that certain material shouldn't be coming through the List, but instead suspicious that i and at least one other individual might be a virus!Lee answered me right away, before i had looked up your private e-mail addresses to give you a copy of my letter. i wrote to betty about this and other matters a few mos. back, which she kindly answered, but there seemed no easy solution for it at the time. "firehair" has truly gotten out of control since, though i didn't want to share my lengthy comments with the whole List. --- dolores_______________ (dolores to Lee, last eve.)Lee, apparently you are new to the Mitsawokett List, and I believe you did get some help from at least one member in piecing together some genealogy on Poindexters. Because you expressed the opinion that you thought the site would be only for genealogy, and because you said (Sept. 29) "The delete button has been busy as late," this made some of us feel you were objecting to the non-genealogy content that often appears.A List Founder, John
Carter, had written that he'd like to see Mitsawokett returned to its genealogy focus and Sandy (heritage29@ ) was one of those who agreed. In that light, your questioning whether the Dartmouth College material had gone through the List made the sender (Firehair/ Shining Spirit) think you were saying it wasn't of the right subject matter, and I thought so too. That's why she wrote to you, and I also thought you had "challenged" her about the content.The reason my msg. was from an individual (me) rather than through the Site was simply that I wanted to privately discuss some possible solutions to this problem with a couple of members to see if we could come up with a reasonable solution. I therefore wrote to you, with a copy to Sandy, and intended to later contact John
Carter, Ned Heite and Betty Terry. I do NOT want the entire List to read what I wrote, or I would have sent it c/o the List. (Maybe you didn't know that there is a list of each other's private e-mail addresses.)Last I heard, virus-senders use attachments, not the message itself, and they surely don't sign with their real names, which I did. You may telephone me, Dolores Solberg, at 302-492-1225 up until 11:30 tonight or starting 7:30 tomorrow morning if you have any doubt. (We bought Norton's Professional Edition months ago to make certain we won't accidentally carry any virus also.) If you do have virus-contaminated messages or are otherwise distracted, i hope you can solve it, but believe me, I'm miles from "suspicious" in my intentions, which are only to help set some future standards for the Mitsawokett website.(copy to Sandy)----- Original Message ----- From: Lee Morse To: Dee Cc: heritage49@ Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 8:04 PM Subject: Re: clogging the Mits. siteI don't understand why I am getting this message. I asked if a certain pair of messages had come through the list because the heading did not reflect that - showed only an individual as a sender. I have been getting strange mail, including virus contaminated messages, and I intend to check every single thing that looks suspicious. Those two messages certainly looked odd to me.Lee Morse----- Original Message ----- From: Dee To: leemorse@ Cc: heritage49@ Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 5:45 PM Subject: clogging the Mits. sitei am personally not brave enough to say this to the whole mitsawokett list (since i have only been involved for a few months) but it is truly a shame that the firehair/ shining spirit persona has so dominated it in recent months that some feel they must call for strict adherance to genealogy.it is difficult to say, "genealogy only," if that means just swapping names and dates, without other fundamentals. as the most obvious example, i believe comment (and even action) on the supression of the bloomsbury report is related to the pursuit of local Native genealogy and history claimed as the site's purpose, but it seemed to get "drowned out" by firehair's less-related, northern NJ Black Creek site issue. i also enjoy the "partial straying" to such topics as "how to" workshops on genealogy; pow wows (even if not lenni lenape or nanticoke); Tribal trends such as Type O blood/ lazy eye; and referrals to other Native or genealogy sites and topics. but "referrals" is a keyword here, and another should be "brief," even if it has to carry an optional attachment that won't automatically overload our e-mail In-boxes.considering the main audience for the Site, an opportunity for Native high school seniors to consider Dartmouth College could interest some readers who may not otherwise hear it from their daily news exposure or guidance counselors (especially not the latter!). but, the correct "dose" might be:Dartmouth College in Massachusetts offers an October "Fly In" where selected Native American high school students can sample their campus life at no cost. For info: http:// ~.dartmouth. edu/~nap .once Lee Morse challenged her, Firehair remembered how to be brief (and Indian-focused) in her reply. but, in reality, today alone we had our e-mail boxes clogged with every last detail of the dartmouth program (complete with personal notes from whomever had told Firehair about it); a plea for people in bucks county PA to consider the plight of a frazzled caregiver; forwarding an alarmist "civilians may be killed" article; and a cutesy "rules" list for displaying flags or other patriotism. my recent Delete-bin also shows lengthy child-rearing tips and tales; 2 full pages promoting a lecture on poorhouses in orange county NY; 1.5 pages on detailed stats on the recent national tragedies; and warm greetings from the new "smile" virus i apparently merited simply for being on one of her Lists! (yes, every one of these was from firehair/ shining spirit.)occasional glimpses into member lives can be appropriate (e.g., the Terrys' tornado tale, John
carter's thank-you for the Heite visit, or Ned's award or other accomplishment). but Firehair seems to believe we and other entire Lists crave every move of her triplet boys, daughter, and coffee-brewing times. do i exaggerate?any list manager has the right to simply refuse submissions as unrelated to the stated mission (or not enough related, or too long) but obviously it would be more friendly to refer readers and submitters elsewhere instead of just putting up a wall. so, what was wrong with Dolly's offer this summer to create a separate "chat" site? i never saw it plugged on the Mits. site, nor any other offshoot site "blessed." unless there's some reason Dolly can't really handle it, perhaps it's time to start forwarding items there.dolores solberg, dover DEFrom: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Cc: "'Seaney, Dave'" Subject: RE: Rhoda Moor & Samuel SeeneyDate: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 19:33:52 -0400X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211MIME-Version: 1.0Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Aha!
Thanks, Dave. I had never seen that before.
Ray & Betty--
Below is the link that Dave was referring to in his recent message.
Who was the source of the Seeney reference?
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
DL7715@ [SMTP:DL7715@]Sent:
Tuesday, October 02, 2001 7:01 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
Re: Rhoda Moor & Samuel SeeneyJohn
,It's listed under the photograph pages at: Oscar&Dolly.htmDave
-----Original Message-----
From:
John
C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]Sent:
Tuesday, October 02, 2001 6:55 PMTo:
'Seaney, Dave'Subject:
RE: Rhoda Moor & Samuel Seeney
Hi, Dave.
I saw your recent message, and am curious.
You mentioned an "Oscar & Helen (Durham) Loatman" chart, but I can't seem to find this in any of the messages in Mitsawokett Digest Number 111 (the subject of your message).
Thinking you might have just used the most reject digest to reply to the list, I searched farther back in the archives, but cannot seem to find any message pertaining to this topic. I even went to the Mitsawokett Family Histories webpage, thinking you might have seen something there, but could not find it.
Thanks for any clarification you can offer.
John
------------------------------------------------------------From: DL7715@Date: Tue Oct 2, 2001 7:12 amSubject: Re: [Mitsawokett] Digest Number 811In the Oscar & Helen (Durham) Loatman chart I just noticed that it states that Samuel Seeney was the husband of Rhoda Moor. I am interested in where this information came from. I've been looking for that Seeney connection for years.Dave SeaneySeaney-Seeney-Seney Families"Trying To Solve The Mystery Of My History Every Day"From: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Subject: RE: Tornado!Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 10:16:56 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty--
Sorry for the late reply.
I have just returned from a week-long vacation out-of-state. Whereas I was able to access and view my email through a friend's computer, I was unable to reply. I think it was a combination of my service-provider's net-access website and the fact that my friend's computer was a MacIntosh.
Anyway--
Wow, sorry to hear about the tense moments and collateral damage in your area. I had not heard anything about it.
Hope all is patching up well.
Take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Mitsawokett@ [SMTP:Mitsawokett@]Sent:
Wednesday, September 26, 2001 6:16 AMTo:
Mitsawokett@Subject:
[Mitsawokett] Digest Number 807Message: 2 Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 23:3:40 -0400 From: "Betty & Ray Terry" Subject: Tornado!We survived the tornado! No damage to ourproperty or familys, but the neighborhood beginning a 1/2 mile south onMontgomery Rd. was extensively damaged as to trees and telephone poles.The twister must have gone thru there above roof level for very few homes havedamage and most do not have shingles blown off. The damageoccurred from falling trees, limbs and flying debris. The lights came on15 minutes ago. The first time we have had to go without electricity for29 hours! We had been told to expect 2-3 days moreoutage.5:30 P.M. Monday, September 24, 2001. My friend, Phil Sirk, who is themanage of the Student Book Store at the U of M, received a hysterical call fromhis wife, Roxanna. On her way to pick up their son, Bryan, she was being chasedby a tornado on US Route 1 north of the University of Maryland. She screamedthat the twister was ripping up telephone poles behind her and would soonovertake her vehicle. Phil put her call on the sound system at work and had some of his people call 911 while he continued to speak with Roxanna. Muchlike thedestroying angel in ancient Egypt, the twister passed over her butcontinued toward their son Bryan's day care center. It passed over thecenter without much damage save for fallen trees.The Sirks' experience with the storm has become a metaphor for the membersof our church's congregation.We have determined that all of them and their homes werepreserved. The path of the tornado cut a swath about 1/2 mile widefrom its formulation by the south entrance to the University of Maryland. It"hooked" its way up University Boulevard mowing down trees and destroying thetennis tent by the golf course and the temporary construction sheds by the newfine arts theater. It then slammed into the northwest corner of the Universitykilling two students, causing major structural damage to the high-rise dorms,destroying many parked cars and displacing 3000 students. It moved relentlesslynorth ripping the roofs off of a Pentecostal Church and a Home Depot at the intersection of US Routes 1 95/495. All local emergency response crewshave been working since Tuesday evening to deal with multiple injuries and beginrecovery operations. US 1 north of the University to north ofBeltsville is currently closed.Our friends the Packers suffered six fallen trees (snapped off 1/2 way up), all of which fell AWAY from their house. They did no damage to others,either.We were eating dinner with friends at our house when the storm came, but we noticed nothing other than rain, some lightning and thunder (whichoccurred rather close together, so we knew the lightning was striking close to Beltsville). The lights went out so we dug out some candles andfinished dinner. Our friends departed and we became curious when thesirens did not fade away but increased in intensity, seemingly all aroundus. So we drove south to see what was the reason for the lights out andjust general nosiness, shortly to be stunned. We had not a clue that a 160 mph storm had passed so close to us!!!!9/11, 9/25 -- going to hell in a handbasket fairly rapidly here,folks.---------------------------------------------------------------Betty Ray Terrybettyandrayterry@To: "'Mitsawokett List'" From: "John
C. Carter" Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 07:03:43 -0400Subject: [Mitsawokett] *** ONCE AGAIN: PLEASE STOP ***
On October 1st, Lee wrote:>> Did this message come through the list?>> And another, totally off the subject, from the>> same sender?>> Lee Morse
Yes, Lee.
This is precisely the type of messages that need to PLEASE stop.
Thank-you for pointing this out.
Once again, everyone:
This is NOT a list for general Native American interests. This is a list for items SPECIFICALLY relating to the Native American and related ancestries of KENT COUNTY, DELAWARE and the SURROUNDING COMMUNITY.
There are many, many other lists geared toward general Native American interests. I'm sure nearly everyone will agree that if we wish to see posts of that type, we can sign up on any number of the other lists.
Many of us receive this Mitsawokett list in digest form, and it is not as easy to delete the messages that are irrelevant to our research.
Once again, PLEASE stop sending messages which have no relevance to the genealogy and history of "the Native American Isolate Communities of Kent County, Delaware, and Surrounding Areas on the DelMarVa Peninsula and Southern New Jersey."
All other subject posts belong elsewhere.
Once again, thank-you.
(And thanks to everyone who sent replies of agreement!)
Sincerely,
** No hard feelings, just make it stop! **
Thanks,
John
From: "John
C. Carter" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Subject: FW: please also forward to betty's new addr.Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 19:30:35 -0400
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Forwarding per request.
JCC
-----Original Message-----
From:
Dol -Sol [SMTP:dol_sol@]Sent:
Tuesday, October 02, 2001 9:30 AMTo:
spiff@Cc:
ned@Subject:
please also forward to betty's new addr.attn. John
(& copy to Terrys & Ned) -- as you will see below, this "Lee" actually was not commenting that certain material shouldn't be coming through the List, but instead suspicious that i and at least one other individual might be a virus!Lee answered me right away, before i had looked up your private e-mail addresses to give you a copy of my letter. i wrote to betty about this and other matters a few mos. back, which she kindly answered, but there seemed no easy solution for it at the time. "firehair" has truly gotten out of control since, though i didn't want to share my lengthy comments with the whole List. --- dolores_______________ (dolores to Lee, last eve.)Lee, apparently you are new to the Mitsawokett List, and I believe you did get some help from at least one member in piecing together some genealogy on Poindexters. Because you expressed the opinion that you thought the site would be only for genealogy, and because you said (Sept. 29) "The delete button has been busy as late," this made some of us feel you were objecting to the non-genealogy content that often appears.A List Founder, John
Carter, had written that he'd like to see Mitsawokett returned to its genealogy focus and Sandy (heritage29@ ) was one of those who agreed. In that light, your questioning whether the Dartmouth College material had gone through the List made the sender (Firehair/ Shining Spirit) think you were saying it wasn't of the right subject matter, and I thought so too. That's why she wrote to you, and I also thought you had "challenged" her about the content.The reason my msg. was from an individual (me) rather than through the Site was simply that I wanted to privately discuss some possible solutions to this problem with a couple of members to see if we could come up with a reasonable solution. I therefore wrote to you, with a copy to Sandy, and intended to later contact John
Carter, Ned Heite and Betty Terry. I do NOT want the entire List to read what I wrote, or I would have sent it c/o the List. (Maybe you didn't know that there is a list of each other's private e-mail addresses.)Last I heard, virus-senders use attachments, not the message itself, and they surely don't sign with their real names, which I did. You may telephone me, Dolores Solberg, at 302-492-1225 up until 11:30 tonight or starting 7:30 tomorrow morning if you have any doubt. (We bought Norton's Professional Edition months ago to make certain we won't accidentally carry any virus also.) If you do have virus-contaminated messages or are otherwise distracted, i hope you can solve it, but believe me, I'm miles from "suspicious" in my intentions, which are only to help set some future standards for the Mitsawokett website.(copy to Sandy)----- Original Message ----- From: Lee Morse To: Dee Cc: heritage49@ Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 8:04 PM Subject: Re: clogging the Mits. siteI don't understand why I am getting this message. I asked if a certain pair of messages had come through the list because the heading did not reflect that - showed only an individual as a sender. I have been getting strange mail, including virus contaminated messages, and I intend to check every single thing that looks suspicious. Those two messages certainly looked odd to me.Lee Morse ----- Original Message ----- From: Dee To: leemorse@ Cc: heritage49@ Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 5:45 PM Subject: clogging the Mits. sitei am personally not brave enough to say this to the whole mitsawokett list (since i have only been involved for a few months) but it is truly a shame that the firehair/ shining spirit persona has so dominated it in recent months that some feel they must call for strict adherance to genealogy.it is difficult to say, "genealogy only," if that means just swapping names and dates, without other fundamentals. as the most obvious example, i believe comment (and even action) on the supression of the bloomsbury report is related to the pursuit of local Native genealogy and history claimed as the site's purpose, but it seemed to get "drowned out" by firehair's less-related, northern NJ Black Creek site issue. i also enjoy the "partial straying" to such topics as "how to" workshops on genealogy; pow wows (even if not lenni lenape or nanticoke); Tribal trends such as Type O blood/ lazy eye; and referrals to other Native or genealogy sites and topics. but "referrals" is a keyword here, and another should be "brief," even if it has to carry an optional attachment that won't automatically overload our e-mail In-boxes.considering the main audience for the Site, an opportunity for Native high school seniors to consider Dartmouth College could interest some readers who may not otherwise hear it from their daily news exposure or guidance counselors (especially not the latter!). but, the correct "dose" might be:Dartmouth College in Massachusetts offers an October "Fly In" where selected Native American high school students can sample their campus life at no cost. For info: http:// ~.dartmouth. edu/~nap .once Lee Morse challenged her, Firehair remembered how to be brief (and Indian-focused) in her reply. but, in reality, today alone we had our e-mail boxes clogged with every last detail of the dartmouth program (complete with personal notes from whomever had told Firehair about it); a plea for people in bucks county PA to consider the plight of a frazzled caregiver; forwarding an alarmist "civilians may be killed" article; and a cutesy "rules" list for displaying flags or other patriotism. my recent Delete-bin also shows lengthy child-rearing tips and tales; 2 full pages promoting a lecture on poorhouses in orange county NY; 1.5 pages on detailed stats on the recent national tragedies; and warm greetings from the new "smile" virus i apparently merited simply for being on one of her Lists! (yes, every one of these was from firehair/ shining spirit.)occasional glimpses into member lives can be appropriate (e.g., the Terrys' tornado tale, John
carter's thank-you for the Heite visit, or Ned's award or other accomplishment). but Firehair seems to believe we and other entire Lists crave every move of her triplet boys, daughter, and coffee-brewing times. do i exaggerate?any list manager has the right to simply refuse submissions as unrelated to the stated mission (or not enough related, or too long) but obviously it would be more friendly to refer readers and submitters elsewhere instead of just putting up a wall. so, what was wrong with Dolly's offer this summer to create a separate "chat" site? i never saw it plugged on the Mits. site, nor any other offshoot site "blessed." unless there's some reason Dolly can't really handle it, perhaps it's time to start forwarding items there.dolores solberg, dover DEFrom: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'bettyandrayterry@'" Subject: RE: Boom Times in the cavesDate: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 00:08:47 -0400
Hi, Betty & Ray.
Sorry, but there was nothing in the message, other than the blurb you typed.
Also, it appears your time clock needs to be set. The message thinks it was sent at 2:01 am on the 10th, instead of 12:05 am on the 11th.
John
-----Original Message-----
From:
Betty and Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]Sent:
Wednesday, October 10, 2001 2:01 AMTo:
Heath Dick umuc; Terry Beth--home; Terry Will ; Meyerson Fran & George; Reichard Ellen; Curtis Delores ; John
son S Eileen ; Guttinger Don ; Ridgeway Rose; Carter John
; Comparetto Judy; Fugitt Leroy ; Berge Linnea ; Fulcher Jared ; Heite Ned; Jurado Chris; Knauer Robert R.; Miller EricSubject:
Boom Times in the cavesDon't let out who you received this from.....don't want anthrax in themail, ya know.-----------------------------------------------------Betty and Ray TerryFrom: "John
C. Carter" Reply-To: "spiff@" To: "'Robison189@'" Cc: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Subject: RE: "looking for Wyatts"Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 16:16:56 -0400X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211MIME-Version: 1.0Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi, Linda.
Saw your Wyatt query on the message board.
Not sure if there's any connection, but I am descended from a Wyatt family of Caroline County, MD, which also had purported Indian connections.
My earliest known Wyatt ancestor was Elizabeth Wyatt, (b. ca. 1789/90, d. 15 Jul 1864), who was apparently the "common-law" wife of William Carty (b. ca. 1792/3, d. 07 May 1867) (my great-great-great-grandparents). A reference to her (not specifically by name, but by a grandson describing his grandmother) in the book "Delaware's Forgotten Folk" by C.A. Weslager denotes her as a "full blood Maryland Indian." Census records list her and her family members alternatively as "black," "mulatto" and/or "free colored." These classifications have also been known to be used to describe Native Americans (or anyone who was not considered to be 100% white), but there is also the possibility that Elizabeth was at least partially of African American descent. I have photographs of two of her daughters, and one of them shows African American characteristics, but family tradition has always held that there was an Indian ancestry.
Passed down in my family was a Bible that we refer to as the Carty-Wyatt Bible, because the family record pages are filled with roughly half Carty's and half Wyatts. Among them, there are two male Wyatts listed who I believe are brothers of Elizabeth:
1. John
Wyatt, (b. ca. 1790, d. 25 Jun 1864), married to Maria _____, with children:
a. Samuel, b. 04 Apr 1813.
b. Elmary, b. 14 Nov 1814.
c. John
, b. 11 Jan 1816.
d. Henny, b. 27 Mar 1819.
e. Maria, b. 16 Jul 1821.
f. Adeline, b. 01 Aug 1825.
g. Sarah Ann, b. Dec 1827.
2. William Wyatt, (b. ca. 1797, d. 22 Dec. 1860), married to Dorcus _____, with children:
a. Elizabeth, b. 13 Oct 1817.
b. James, b. 04 Sep 1819.
c. Mary, b. 28 Jun 1822.
d. Jankey, b. 31 May 1824.
e. William, b. 07 May 1826.
Several of Elizabeth Wyatt Carty's children migrated to Kent County, Delaware, and inter-married with several other mixed-blood families there. There was/is also a large mixed-blood population in Sussex County, DE, and there have been numerous marriages between the Kent County families with the Sussex County families. It is possible that some of the descendants of John
or William followed this same pattern.
This is basically all I know about my Wyatt branch.
I would be very interested to know if any of this may connect with your Wyatts.
Also, many of us who are descendants of the Native American and mixed-blood populations of Kent County DE, Sussex County DE, the Eastern Shore of Maryland, as well as many families who migrated to southern New Jersey have formed a specialized research group, known as "Mitsawokett." You are most welcome to browse the website, and see if there is any other information there that might be of use to you. There is also an email list you would be welcome to join. Here is the main page:
Thanks very much, and good luck with your search!
John
--------------------------------------- .usa.states.delaware.counties.sussex&m=1255looking for WyattsAuthor: Linda RobisonDate: 19 May 2001 12:00 PMSurnames: WyattClassification: Querieslooking for Wyatts in sussex county. John
B Wyatt Married Anniebell in 1902. they lived in long neck at that time. his father was james Wyatt born 1856. there rumors that one of these was a indian. i cant find any more. later they had 16 children and lives in milton. any help? Linda.Robison189@From: "John
C. Carter" To: "'Terry, Betty & Ray'" Subject: FW: WYATTDate: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 21:26:19 -0400
Linda's reply, FYI.
JCC
-----Original Message-----
From:
ROBISON189@ [SMTP:ROBISON189@]Sent:
Sunday, July 22, 2001 4:58 PMTo:
spiff@Subject:
WYATT
Hi John,
the first wyatt that i can find is james wyatt born 1856 died 1904. Havent found his wife yet. He had a son named John
b wyatt, his wife was Annabell. I saw you had a james born 1819, maybe that is my james dad. What little i have found in the census report said that John
was white he did not look like he was white. He looked indian. His sister mary and brother james really looked like indians. Cant find much on james born 1856, i found his grave at angola the church cant find it in the records though. I want to try the place in salisbury md. The nabb research center. Maybe there is a Connection. It would be nice to tie something together. Thanks. Linda
Robison189@To: "'Jackson, Lynn'" , "'Terry, Betty & Ray'"
Subject: RE: Molecular GenealogyDate: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 20:57:22 -0400
Hi, Lynn and Ray & Betty.
WHEW!!!
Can you believe I FINALLY received the results of the DNA test??
I actually received them about a week or so ago, but have been very busy, and also have been corresponding with BYU for some clarification.
What it boils down to is that the test came back negative, as far as showing a relationship between me and my supposed 5th cousin (Tom Hardcastle). It did establish that my first cousin, David (my uncle Donald's son who was born out of wedlock) (and who participated in the DNA test with me) is indeed biologically my first cousin, but it showed that there was no common paternal ancestor between our supposed 5th cousin (Tom) and ourselves.
(Although my brother Jim was also initially planning to be a tester as well, he "dropped out" after a failed attempt to send the first sample kit back through the mail. He thought he could leave the pre-addressed, postage-paid FedEx package in his regular home mailbox and that the postman would pick it up, and the packages had a specific number of hours--can't remember--turn-around time designated for optimum viability of the samples. Before I could relay to Jim that he could still drop off the package at FedEx the next day, he had thrown it out. I did not pursue having another sample kit sent to him, because it was during this period that David agreed to be tested. For these types of tests BYU requests a first cousin for optimum sample comparison, but when neither of the two I'd asked stepped forward, I asked my brother to participate. Once my cousin David later agreed to be tested, my brother's participation was no longer necessary).
Anyway, the negative results of the test were very disappointing (considering the fact that I've been working on the genealogy of the Hardcastles for over 20 years) (once again goes to show you can't always believe the old family tales!), but I'm not QUITE ready to give up yet! :-) Since there is a slim possibility that Tom might have an illegitimacy is HIS line, I have decided to try to ask a couple of other Hardcastle "cousins" (from co-lateral male lines other than Tom's) to see if they would participate in the study as well. This will help to solidify the results, one way or the other.
One of the big questions in regard to this whole thing was the expected cost of the testing. Well, I'm afraid I still can't answer that. BYU has provided me a report of the results (which I'd be happy to share with either of you if you're interested), but they made no mention of any charges. Also, there were a couple of typos in the report, which I pointed out to them and for which I requested corrected pages. The corrected pages arrived day before yesterday, but still no invoice. When I received the original report a week or so ago, the accompanying letter mentioned that these types of DNA tests had been farmed out by BYU to a local genetics laboratory, where my BYU contact is now employed. Apparently BYU wants to concentrate more on the large international project they're working on (to collect DNA samples from all over the world, for their own study) (the study they were conducting when they visited several places around the country last Jan., Feb., etc.) My contact later confirmed via e-mail that my results would be kept on file for at least two years (per federal law), and that if I wished to get additional subjects to test their DNA against mine (and David and Tom), these additional samples would cost $130 per new sample. It would appear that any costs of the initial tests were assumed as a part the university study (knock on wood!), but now that this function has been passed along to the private DNA lab, future samples have been assigned a cost.
I have a couple of male Hardcastles I've corresponded with, who I plan to ask soon. In the meantime, I'm not ready to surrender the quest yet! :-)
It sure took them long enough to complete the tests, but if you have any questions, please let me know. Again, if either of you would like a copy of the report, I would be happy to send them. Just let me know.
Thanks!
John
From: "John C. Carter"
Reply-To: "spiff@"
To: "'bettyandrayterry@'"
Subject: RE: P.S. RE: Molecular Genealogy
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:54:01 -0400
X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks!
John
P.S. Now the wide font-spacing is NOT happening again...!
Strange....
-----Original Message-----
From: Betty and Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 3:11 AM
To: John C. Carter
Subject: RE: P.S. RE: Molecular Genealogy
Hi John,
No, we had a conflict and did not go. We did attend a DelDOT meeting with
Ned, Cara Blume and Dennis Coker this past Wednesday. It was called so
that the consultant reviewing the Clark's complaints would have Ned's point
of view. We provided about 10 ancestry charts, color-coded by family name,
to illustrate the "genealogically indistinguishable" nature of the
Bridgeton-Cheswold-Millsboro communities, as Ned claimed in his Bloomsbury
report and to which the Clarks have vituperatively objected. DelDOT kept
the charts and color copied them for distribution to interested parties.
------------------------------------------------------
> [Original Message]
> From: John C. Carter
> To: bettyandrayterry@
> Date: 10/20/2001 10:29:37 PM
> Subject: P.S. RE: Molecular Genealogy
>
> P.S. Did you go to "Lenape Then & Now"?
> How was it?
> JCC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]
> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 10:32 PM
> To: 'bettyandrayterry@'
> Subject: RE: Molecular Genealogy
>
> Hi, Ray & Betty.
> Thanks for the message. I doubt there would be much correlation between
> the type of test (Y-chromosome) done on myself and fellow testers, and
the
> maternal-oriented one that Betty would have to take part in. But the
> report is only 6 or 7 pages, and therefore no trouble to send.
Otherwise,
> unless you're interested in one right away, maybe I'll just save it until
> the next time I sent photos, articles, etc. to you.
> Did you ever decide on a trip to Florida?
> Hope all is well.
> Tell David hello.
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Betty and Ray Terry [SMTP:bettyandrayterry@]
> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 11:47 AM
> To: John C. Carter
> Subject: RE: Molecular Genealogy
>
> Hi John,
>
> Well, thanks for the note about your tests. We are sorry, in a way, that
> you did not achieve the desired outcome. But you have, depending on
future
> testing, started the process to determine once and for all whether the
> rumors were true and have become a model for others to follow.
>
> Perhaps your DNA in BYU's database will at some later time (hopefully in
> your lifetime!) match you with another male and thus give you your
paternal
> ancestry beyond Hopewell.
>
> In our case, we may yet spend the tons of dollars required. Our minds
have
> not yet been attuned to doing so.
>
> Thanks for offering a copy of the report. We do not know that it would
> help us. Do you have any thoughts on this? We hesitate to ask you to
> incur the expense of sending a copy if it would not.
>
> Good luck with getting the Hardcastles to participate!
>
> B&R
>
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: John C. Carter
> > To: Terry, Betty & Ray ; Jackson, Lynn
>
> > Date: 10/18/2001 8:53:55 PM
> > Subject: RE: Molecular Genealogy
> >
> > Hi, Lynn and Ray & Betty.
> >
> > WHEW!!!
> > Can you believe I FINALLY received the results of the DNA test??
> >
> > I actually received them about a week or so ago, but have been very
> busy,
> > and also have been corresponding with BYU for some clarification.
> >
> > What it boils down to is that the test came back negative, as far as
> > showing a relationship between me and my supposed 5th cousin (Tom
> > Hardcastle). It did establish that my first cousin, David (my uncle
> > Donald's son who was born out of wedlock) (and who participated in the
> DNA
> > test with me) is indeed biologically my first cousin, but it showed that
> > there was no common paternal ancestor between our supposed 5th cousin
> (Tom)
> > and ourselves.
> >
> > (Although my brother Jim was also initially planning to be a tester as
> > well, he "dropped out" after a failed attempt to send the first sample
> kit
> > back through the mail. He thought he could leave the pre-addressed,
> > postage-paid FedEx package in his regular home mailbox and that the
> postman
> > would pick it up, and the packages had a specific number of hours--can't
> > remember--turn-around time designated for optimum viability of the
> samples.
> > Before I could relay to Jim that he could still drop off the package at
> > FedEx the next day, he had thrown it out. I did not pursue having
> another
> > sample kit sent to him, because it was during this period that David
> agreed
> > to be tested. For these types of tests BYU requests a first cousin for
> > optimum sample comparison, but when neither of the two I'd asked stepped
> > forward, I asked my brother to participate. Once my cousin David later
> > agreed to be tested, my brother's participation was no longer
necessary).
> >
> > Anyway, the negative results of the test were very disappointing
> > (considering the fact that I've been working on the genealogy of the
> > Hardcastles for over 20 years) (once again goes to show you can't always
> > believe the old family tales!), but I'm not QUITE ready to give up yet!
> > :-) Since there is a slim possibility that Tom might have an
> illegitimacy
> > is HIS line, I have decided to try to ask a couple of other Hardcastle
> > "cousins" (from co-lateral male lines other than Tom's) to see if they
> > would participate in the study as well. This will help to solidify the
> > results, one way or the other.
> >
> > One of the big questions in regard to this whole thing was the expected
> > cost of the testing. Well, I'm afraid I still can't answer that. BYU
> has
> > provided me a report of the results (which I'd be happy to share with
> > either of you if you're interested), but they made no mention of any
> > charges. Also, there were a couple of typos in the report, which I
> pointed
> > out to them and for which I requested corrected pages. The corrected
> pages
> > arrived day before yesterday, but still no invoice. When I received the
> > original report a week or so ago, the accompanying letter mentioned that
> > these types of DNA tests had been farmed out by BYU to a local genetics
> > laboratory, where my BYU contact is now employed. Apparently BYU wants
> to
> > concentrate more on the large international project they're working on
> (to
> > collect DNA samples from all over the world, for their own study) (the
> > study they were conducting when they visited several places around the
> > country last Jan., Feb., etc.) My contact later confirmed via e-mail
> that
> > my results would be kept on file for at least two years (per federal
> law),
> > and that if I wished to get additional subjects to test their DNA
against
> > mine (and David and Tom), these additional samples would cost $130 per
> new
> > sample. It would appear that any costs of the initial tests were assumed
> as a part the university study (knock on wood!), but now that this function
> has been passed along to the private DNA lab, future samples have been
> assigned a cost.
>
> I have a couple of male Hardcastles I've corresponded with, who I plan to
> ask soon. In the meantime, I'm not ready to surrender the quest yet! :-)
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] Weslager books on Bibliofind site |
|Date: |10/31/2001 7:06:46 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
|CC: billrich@ ('billrich@') |
Hi, all.
Occasionally, a copy of "Delaware's Forgotten Folk" will show up on
Bibliofind (now owned by ), but I just checked and there aren't
any right now. But for those who might be interested, there are several
others by C.A. Weslager listed.
Go to the following link:
...and enter "weslager" for an author search. There are approx. 56 or so
books listed.
Good luck!
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Family Lineages Correction |
|Date: |11/9/2001 7:53:51 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: Smillerful@ ('Smillerful@') |
|CC: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
Hi, Sara.
Thanks for the message.
I have met your uncle Jon a couple of times during his trips to Florida.
And I also know your dad's cousin MayBelle Durham Bordley, having
corresponded with her for many years, and having met her during one of my
trips to New Jersey.
Thanks, also for the comments on the website. However, the website you
mention is not actually mine, but rather one that is facilitated by Betty &
Ray Terry, and I was but one of many people who contributed to it. My own
personal database (which I periodically upload portions of to my own
website, listed under my signature tag below) does have your name, but only
as "Sara Miller" with no middle name, and I do have your sister Jane listed
(also with no middle name). I will add the information you provided to my
database, and am also cc'ing Betty & Ray with this message so they will
have your information for their Mitsawokett site as well.
With so much information on so many inter-connected families, it sometimes
becomes difficult to keep everything consistent. I must have not yet
compiled the info on your family, back when I provided a GEDCOM to Betty
and Ray a few years ago, when Mitsawokett was initially being created. (A
GEDCOM is a collection of genealogical data, "compressed" or translated
into a universally-accepted computer code, so that it can be sent or
delivered electronically--on diskette or through email--so that any
receiving genealogy program can accept and read it).
Anyway, I'm sure Betty & Ray are much appreciative of your constructive
corrections, and thanks again for your message.
Take care!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Smillerful@ [SMTP:Smillerful@]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 10:22 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Family Lineages Correction
Hi John,
First let me say great job on your website. I am thankful for the work you have done and appreciate the many hours you have invested in putting something like this together.
My family is listed on your site and I wanted to provide you with a few corrections. The surname is LOATMAN...Samuel Loatman Sr. I'm not sure I'm saying this correctly, so I will just go down the family line...
My name is listed incorrectly. I am listed under the the 5th generation of Samuel loatman, Sr.
I am the daughter of Albert B. Miller (4), Son of Sara "Sallie" Loatman (3), daughter of Eli Loatman (2), Son of Samuel Loatman, Sr.
My correct full name is Sara Lynn Miller (I'm listed as: Sara Elizabeth Miller); and one of my siblings, Jane Elizabeth Miller, is not listed. She's not marrried and has no children.
I'm hoping you will make this correction, and once again - you have done a marvelous job putting this site together!
-Sara
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Moving |
|Date: |11/14/2001 6:34:04 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
|CC: ned@ ('Heite, Ned') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Wow, sounds like you're going to be having fun!
I'd been meaning to ask if anything had ever become of the Hawaii /
Polynesian Cultural Center gig. Or whether you had decided on any trips to
sunny Florida.
Anyway, yes, I would be willing to do whatever to help out. To confess,
I'm not that eager to receive the messages from the list individually. Not
just because of the volume of messages involved, but also because of the
method I use for filing them, as well as the method by which I utilize the
digest numbers as sources in my Family Tree Maker program (although I list
the individual message author as well). Is it absolutely required to
receive the messages individually to become a Moderator?
However, none of these reasons are insurmountable, and I will adapt to
whatever would be necessary if my efforts are needed.
Just let me know.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 5:55 PM
To: spiff@; Ned@
Subject: Moving
Hi Ned & John,
We are going to be moving Saturday and live out in the wide open spaces for
about a year and a half. We will be driving for 4-5 days and then
obtaining
permanent lodging and setting ourselves up.
Would either or both of you agree to having your names listed on the
Mitsawokett web site as contact persons while we are incommunicado? Also
to
having your names broadcast on the List as contact persons and
approving/assisting persons who need List services? John would have to be
added as a moderator and changed to receiving List messages directly
instead
of digest form.
We would appreciate your help very much!
Of course, we would resume the moderator duties when able to in a couple of
weeks.
Ciao,
B&R
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Family Lineages Correction |
|Date: |11/9/2001 7:53:51 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: Smillerful@ ('Smillerful@') |
|CC: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
Hi, Sara.
Thanks for the message.
I have met your uncle Jon a couple of times during his trips to Florida.
And I also know your dad's cousin MayBelle Durham Bordley, having
corresponded with her for many years, and having met her during one of my
trips to New Jersey.
Thanks, also for the comments on the website. However, the website you
mention is not actually mine, but rather one that is facilitated by Betty &
Ray Terry, and I was but one of many people who contributed to it. My own
personal database (which I periodically upload portions of to my own
website, listed under my signature tag below) does have your name, but only
as "Sara Miller" with no middle name, and I do have your sister Jane listed
(also with no middle name). I will add the information you provided to my
database, and am also cc'ing Betty & Ray with this message so they will
have your information for their Mitsawokett site as well.
With so much information on so many inter-connected families, it sometimes
becomes difficult to keep everything consistent. I must have not yet
compiled the info on your family, back when I provided a GEDCOM to Betty
and Ray a few years ago, when Mitsawokett was initially being created. (A
GEDCOM is a collection of genealogical data, "compressed" or translated
into a universally-accepted computer code, so that it can be sent or
delivered electronically--on diskette or through email--so that any
receiving genealogy program can accept and read it).
Anyway, I'm sure Betty & Ray are much appreciative of your constructive
corrections, and thanks again for your message.
Take care!
John
John C. Carter
Paternal surnames: Bailey, Carney, Carter/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston,
Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor,
Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Joy, Morgan, Morris, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Orem,
Ridgeway, Wyatt
Volunteer - Headstone Hunter
-----Original Message-----
From: Smillerful@ [SMTP:Smillerful@]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 10:22 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Family Lineages Correction
Hi John,
First let me say great job on your website. I am thankful for the work you
have done and appreciate the many hours you have invested in putting
something like this together.
My family is listed on your site and I wanted to provide you with a few
corrections. The surname is LOATMAN...Samuel Loatman Sr. I'm not sure I'm
saying this correctly, so I will just go down the family line...
My name is listed incorrectly. I am listed under the the 5th generation of
Samuel loatman, Sr.
I am the daughter of Albert B. Miller (4), Son of Sara "Sallie" Loatman
(3),
daughter of Eli Loatman (2), Son of Samuel Loatman, Sr.
My correct full name is Sara Lynn Miller (I'm listed as: Sara Elizabeth
Miller); and one of my siblings, Jane Elizabeth Miller, is not listed.
She's
not marrried and has no children.
I'm hoping you will make this correction, and once again - you have done a
marvelous job putting this site together!
-Sara
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: New member {Sammons, Salmon(s), Mosley, and Ridgeway} |
|Date: |11/13/2001 8:08:30 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett@') |
Hello, all.
(Hi, Bill Salmon, and welcome to the Mitsawokett group!)
On November 10th, Celeste wrote:
>> I believe the Elizabeth Ridgeway you refer to is
>> the daughter of Tilghman Ridgeway (or Jack) and
>> Sina Mosley. That Ridgeway line is from Kent
>> County. It has not yet been revealed how the Kent
>> Ridgeways and the Sussex Ridgeways relate.
Whereas I have not been able to uncover the exact connection between
Tilghman Ridg(e)way's line and the line of William Ridg(e)way, Sr. (ca.
1804 - Feb 1867) (originally from Sussex County, and the progenitor of many
of the current Kent County, DE and South Jersey Ridgeways), there is
undoubtedly a connection.
Two sons of William Ridgway and his wife Deborah Handsor, Alfred Wilbank
Ridg(e)way and Cornelius Ridgeway (my great-great-grandfather) were
veterans of the Civil War. Like most if not all of their siblings,
they--like their parents--were born in Sussex County, but lived out their
lives in Kent County.
In 1860, Alfred married Sarah J. Ridgway, daughter of Tilghman Ridgway,
Sr. and Sina Mosley. After Alfred's death, when Sarah applied for a
widow's pension, she is described in a witnessed-document as having been "a
second cousin" of Alfred's prior to their marriage. The precise nature of
this familial connection is not known.
And while a scant possibility exists that the connection was between a
maternal line rather than their paternal lines, this seems unlikely in
light of the different counties of origin of their mothers' lines.
To precisely define the connection between these different Ridg(e)way
lines has long been one of my genealogical goals. However, no such luck so
far!
Thanks in advance for any info that anyone might have, and please let me
know if I can answer any questions.
Sincerely,
John
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] DNA / Molecular Genealogy: my quest to connect! |
|Date: |12/13/2001 6:41:25 AM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
|CC: dhicks@ ('Hicks, David'), Solosummit@ ('Carter, Jim & Susan'), ses2@ ('Schroeder, Evelyn'), kharkins1@ ('Harkins, |
|Kathleen'), mattgundersen@ ('Gundersen, Janet & Matt'), perandmer@ ('Carter, Perry & Meronig'), LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@ |
|('LOWER-DELMARVA-ROOTS-L@'), MDCAROLI-L@ ('MDCAROLI-L@'), DEKENT-L@ ('DEKENT-L@') |
Hello.
For those of you who may remember our discussion a few months ago (on the
Mitsawokett list--I'm cc'ing a couple of other lists and individuals as
well) about DNA testing being used in genealogy, I thought I might give you
an update on my efforts.
Some of you are familiar with my quest, but for the others I'll provide a
little background:
My great-grandfather Hopewell U. Carter Sr. was an illegitimate child, son
of Elizabeth Carty, who changed her name to Carter around the time that she
relocated from Caroline County, MD (where Hopewell was born) to Kent
County, DE. The family stories always stated that his biological father
was "a wealthy Dr. Hardcastle" in Caroline County, and there were continued
connections with the family for several years afterward. One story
mentioned how my Great Aunt Agnes named one of her daughters Doris after a
Hardcastle family member. Another story told of a family member who had
joined the service, only to be disheartened and desiring to leave, and the
family implored upon the Hardcastle family's connections to successfully
achieve the serviceman's discharge. (I have never been able to determine
who this serviceman was). There were also tales of a connection to the
Boggs family in the Cheswold area (the family from which J. Caleb Boggs
hailed from, former U.S. Senator and Governor of Delaware), and research
showed that J. Caleb Boggs' paternal grandmother had been a Hardcastle
prior to her marriage, and that she was indeed descended from the same
Hardcastle family of Caroline County, MD.
Anyway, I learned of these stories in the mid-late 1970's when I first
began my genealogy, and by 1990, when I finally got around to ordering
Hopewell Sr's death certificate, the story seemed to be slightly
substantiated by its listing his father as "Alexander Carter." By this
time, I had long since discovered a Dr. Alexander Hardcastle in close
proximity to the Carty / Carter residence in Caroline County, MD, and had
already suspected him as being Hopewell's biological father. My suspicion
as to why the father was listed as "Alexander Carter" on the death
certificate instead of "Alexander Hardcastle" was: 1) the family
informant(s) gave the last name of Carter to avoid the stigma of his having
been illegitimate, or 2) upon being questioned for the father's name the
informant(s) simply replied "Alexander" and the note-taker assumed the
surname would be Carter.
At any rate, it seemed clear that Dr. Alexander Hardcastle must have been
the "culprit." For many years I had worked on researching the Hardcastle
family and had corresponded with other Hardcastle researchers, always
feeling an absence or a loss that I had no proof of this connection,
although the family stories seemed to make it true. This particular line
in my genealogy always seemed to be an extra burden to me, as it was my
paternal line (my father's father's father, etc), and that my own last name
might have been Hardcastle under other circumstances. If only there were a
way to prove the connection. Little did I know that one day science would
come up with a method which might be used to bridge the gap!
That method was DNA testing.
Some of you may be familiar with the story of Thomas Jefferson's purported
offspring borne by the family servant Sally Hemmings, and how the Hemmings
family descendants had long sought acceptance by the Jefferson Society as
being true descendants of Thomas Jefferson, over the objections of
detracting members. Eventually, DNA testing was called upon in an effort
to try to resolve the controversy.
During the mid-1990's another fellow Hardcastle researcher (named Tom
Hardcastle) and I had discussed the story, and wondered whether such a test
might eventually be available (and affordable) to the general public, and
whether we might employ such a test in my efforts to prove that Hopewell
Carter, Sr. was indeed the son of Dr. Alexander Hardcastle.
The type of DNA test conducted on the Jefferson - Hemmings descendants is
called a Y-chromosome test. The Y-chromosome is carried down by males,
only, and such a test can only be used when the desired path is through a
"male line" in a family (such as from great-grandfather to grandfather to
father to son, for example). Examining the DNA in the Y-chromosome in two
male subjects can show whether the two are descended from a common male
ancestor, and can estimate the number of generations that separate the
connection between the two. Since my fellow Hardcastle researcher was both
a male and a Hardcastle (i.e., he had Hardcastle as a surname, indicating
he is the son of a Hardcastle who was the son of a Hardcastle who was the
son of a Hardcastle who was the son of Hardcastle, etc, etc), and since we
knew the exact purported connection (common male ancestor) between his
branch of the Hardcastles and mine, we would be ideal subjects for a
Y-chromosome test. Thus, it just became a matter of finding a lab to
conduct the test.
(Or so we thought). Early inquiries to genetic laboratories, even as
recent as a year and a half ago, proved to be disappointing, as the costs
were upward of $400 per sample to conduct such a test. As eager as I was
to find proof of the connection, this was just too expensive for my budget!
(Also, I had told my "cousin" Tom that if we ever found a lab to perform
the tests that I would pay for them, since it was MY branch which needed
substantiating, not his). Then, last January, I heard (and it was
discussed on this list) about the BYU (Brigham Young University) project
entitled Molecular Genealogy, and how they were collecting DNA samples on
an enormous scale, making stops in particular cities and locations all over
the world, and taking samples from volunteers. One of the stops was near
me in Florida, and others were in the Philadelphia and Maryland areas,
prompting the list discussion last Winter/Spring. The project was detailed
in an article in my local newspaper, in a weekly genealogy column. BYU's
eventual goal was to collect enough samples to be able to study worldwide
migration patterns, and work toward methods of further using DNA to trace
genetic ancestry, beyond the Y-chromosome DNA method (and the Mitochondrial
DNA method*).
* The Mitochondrial DNA method is another form of DNA testing which is
also becoming more commonly used. Mitochondrial DNA is passed down from
mothers to all their children, but is only carried forward by daughters.
This type of testing can be used to test a strictly maternal line (such as
from great-grandmother to grandmother to mother to daughter/son, for
example). My understanding is that this type of testing is somewhat more
difficult (and perhaps more costly).
Anyway, upon learning that the BYU group would soon be in my local area
collecting samples for their project, I contacted members of their staff to
inquire whether they ever worked on individual test cases, and whether they
would consider taking on a personal case such as my own. They replied yes,
and when asked about costs, they replied theirs would be substantially
lower than the $400/sample cost I'd been quoted by the private labs. Even
though they hadn't given me an exact price, I decided to go ahead and take
the leap! I contacted Tom Hardcastle, asked if he was still willing to
participate, and the ball was rolling!
The option was given as to whether we, as test subjects, would donate a
blood sample or a buccal sample (saliva sample via a mouth swab). I
donated a blood sample, and Tom submitted a buccal sample, as this was more
convenient and would not need to involve a doctor appointment to have the
blood drawn. The lab also requested that I get a first-cousin to
participate, as this would provide substantiating genetic markers to go
alongside mine in comparison against Tom's, and would ensure further
validity of the test. My first-cousin David (again, through a male line,
being the son of my father's brother) readily volunteered to join in the
quest, and he soon submitted a buccal sample as well.
I'll leave out all the inconsequential details, but after submitting the
DNA samples the process became rather lengthy (from Feb to Oct). This was
due in no small part to the overwhelming response BYU apparently received,
and their involvement in numerous Special Cases as a result of their "world
tour" and others like myself who'd contacted them for individual testing.
Eventually, arrangements were made by BYU to "farm out" the Special Cases
to a private lab (Relative Genetics), staffed by some of the members who
had worked on the BYU project (and presumably who had since graduated from
BYU). As a consequence of this, many of the Special Cases were done at
little or no cost, and I was one of the lucky ones to fall into this
category. (Going forward, all such Special Cases are being handled by
Relative Genetics, and their cost is set at $130 per sample). (Also, they
now use only buccal samples, and no longer take blood samples for their
Special Cases).
In early October, I finally received the results. Alas, the outcome was
disappointing to say the least. Whereas the DNA showed a positive
first-cousin relationship between David and myself, it showed Tom to be not
connected to David and I within the purported six generations separating us
from our supposed common male ancestor. The results showed that the common
male ancestor between us was more likely somewhere between 27 and 113
generations removed, with an average likely separation of approximately 67
generations. After working on / researching the genealogy of the
Hardcastle family for over 20 years, one small step of science seemed to
rule out the family story altogether.
During this quest, I had stayed in touch with the reporter / genealogist
who had authored the article in the local paper last January (announcing
BYU's original sample-collection project). She had asked whether she could
relate my story in an article once the results were complete. I agreed,
and she conducted an interview. The article came out in last Thursday's
issue, and can be found at the following link:
(There is a typo in the first sentence of the article--which is my fault,
since she let me proofread the article before printing, and I missed it!
It should say "...prove his great-grandfather HOPEWELL Carter...," not
"Alexander" Carter. But this will not change the effect of the story for
general readers).
In the meantime, however, I have decided not to give up right just yet.
Although the results of my DNA test indicated that Tom and I do not have a
common male ancestor within the purported six generations, the possibility
exists (albeit a slim one) that the "flaw" could be in his line, not mine.
In other words, if there were an "illegitimacy" anywhere in Tom's paternal
(Hardcastle) line, this could also explain why we would show as not being
related within the six-generation span. The only way to "remove all doubt"
would be to find another male Hardcastle, whose branch tied into ours, and
who would volunteer to submit a DNA sample for comparison against both of
ours. I decided an extra $130 would be a small price to pay for another
sample to be tested, especially since my earlier tests fell into a "gray
area" in terms of costs. However, such a venture would not come without a
feeling of guilt, since if another Hardcastle descendant were to match my
DNA but not Tom's, this would indicate that Tom was "not really a
Hardcastle." This would be a heavy price to pay (learning your own surname
was "invalid") by someone who was attempting in good faith to help me find
what MY surname "should" be....
However, Tom, being the good sport that he is, was willing to proceed.
And I have just recently found another test participant. A fellow
genealogist named Mike Hardcastle, who is a policeman living in Germany and
who is descended from a co-lateral Hardcastle branch (having a common male
ancestor with Tom and I, two generations further back), has agreed to
participate in the test, and just last week submitted a DNA sample to
Relative Genetics. The outcome of the test on his DNA will provide one of
three results:
1. If Mike matches Tom*, but not me, then this will--for all intents and
purposes--"prove" that I am most likely not a biological Hardcastle.
2. If Mike matches me*, but not Tom, then it will indicate that Tom has
an "illegitimacy" in his paternal line, and is likely not a biological
Hardcastle.
3. If Mike matches neither me nor Tom*, then we're back at square one,
and the "illegitimacy" could have occurred in any one or more of all three
of our lines. (And we would then need to get ANOTHER Hardcastle test
subject for further comparison).
* [within the specified number of generations]
Relative Genetics has said that the latest results should be done in 4 to
6 weeks.
ANYWAY, I've gone on MUCH longer than I'd expected when I began this
post!! Hopefully, I haven't bored any of you too much, and those who did
get bored have long since hit the "delete" key! :-)
If anyone has any questions, please let me know.
I can also provide contact information for Relative Genetics, if anyone
wishes to contact them directly. (Or, info on how to contact them is
contained within the newspaper link above).
Thanks for listening.
John
Genealogy: DNA testing can help prove lineage
By DONNA MURRAY ALLEN
© St. Petersburg Times,
published December 6, 2001
[pic]
John C. Carter always thought it would be really neat if there were a scientific way to prove that his great-grandfather, Alexander Carter, was indeed the out-of-wedlock offspring of a wealthy Maryland doctor named Alexander Hardcastle.
"I'd heard all kinds of family stories since the late 1970s that he (Hardcastle) was the father of my great-grandfather," said Carter, who lives in St. Petersburg. "Since it's my father's line, these family tales have always held a fascination for me."
"And there was all kinds of circumstantial evidence. One of my second cousins was named after a member of the Hardcastle family. My great-great-grandmother Elizabeth Carter never married. On my great-grandfather's death certificate, his father's name is given as Alexander Carter, but we figured the family may have given the name Alexander and the clerk just assumed the surname was Carter."
But if the recent results of a DNA test are accurate, the father of Elizabeth Carter's only child was not the man who lived next door.
Carter's interest in DNA testing was piqued when it became a popular way to help solve crimes and prove paternity. He thought it might help him determine his lineage but dismissed the notion when he learned private labs charged $400 a pop to conduct such testing.
"I didn't want to spend that much money to satisfy my curiosity," Carter said. Then he read about the DNA testing being conducted by Brigham Young University in my Jan. 13, 2001, column.
(In March 2000, the BYU Molecular Genealogy Research Group began compiling a database of 100,000 blood samples from 500 worldwide populations to give researchers an understanding of the genetic makeup of the world and to identify markers from specific areas of the world. Ultimately, individuals will be able to compare their DNA samples to those in the database.)
"I learned the same (BYU) group would be conducting testing in Maryland and Delaware, and it reminded me of the whole Hardcastle situation," he said. Carter leapt into action.
Carter discussed his interest with a BYU team that visited Largo last February and was eventually referred to Relative Genetics, a Utah lab that handles personal requests.
The lab agreed to test Carter and Thomas Hardcastle, who Carter believed to be his fifth cousin. David Hicks of Pennsylvania, a first cousin through Carter's paternal line who was also born out of wedlock, participated for optimum sample comparison. Carter sent a blood sample. The others sent buccal samples (mouth swabs). The cost was $130 per person.
Months passed. The results, which finally arrived in the mail, contained good news and bad news.
The test proved that David Hicks is John Carter's biological first cousin. It also indicated that Thomas Hardcastle and John Carter did not share a common male ancestor.
Carter is disappointed but undaunted. Through the years he has met other Hardcastle descendants online. Though his chances of proving a relationship with the Hardcastle line is slim, Carter hopes to get one or two descendants from other Hardcastle lines to agree to be tested to remove all doubt. He's already put out feelers
"It's kind of an awkward thing to ask someone to give their DNA for a test," Carter said. "In this day and age, people don't want to give out personal information. But I've been working on this line for over 20 years. If I can get a couple of other Hardcastle "cousins' to participate, it will help solidify the results one way or the other."
Want to connect your family lines through DNA analysis? Contact Relative Genetics at (801) 461-9769 or e-mail diahan@. "I will review each request and determine if the tests are available, and then I will send out collection kits to the participants," general supervisor Diahan Southard said in an e-mail interview. "The sample collection is done by rubbing a swab on the inside of the cheek. The swab is then placed in an envelope and mailed back to me. It's easy and painless."
- Donna Murray Allen welcomes your questions about genealogy and will respond to those of general interest in future columns. Sorry, she can't take phone calls, but you can write to her c/o Floridian, St. Petersburg Times, P.O. Box 1121, St. Petersburg, FL 33731, or e-mail her at rootscolumn@. You can read her column online at . Type Donna Murray Allen in the search box.
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: HEADSTONE HUNTER for Obadiah Hastings - Little Creek Hd., Sussex Co., DE |
|Date: |12/11/2001 9:52:10 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: MHastingsHendrix@ ('MHastingsHendrix@') |
|CC: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Hello, MHastingsHendrix@.
Thanks very much for your message, and I apologize for not responding
sooner, but I've been very busy lately.
I'm afraid I won't be of much help. Not only do I not live in the
Delaware area (I live in Florida), but I do not have any information on the
HASTINGS family, although I have many, many surname branches originating in
Delaware, including the area of Little Creek Hundred.
However, in your subject line you refer to Little Creek Hundred being in
Sussex County, but I believe it is in Kent County. But it may be close to
the county line, and since its name is based upon the creek, perhaps this
creek (and the hundred?) span both counties?? (So, you may want to send a
query to the Kent County RootsWeb list as well--I see you've already cc'd
the Sussex list in your message below).
Anyway, I am cc'ing another research group I belong to, which has ties to
that area.
Mitsawokett list: If anyone has any information on the HASTINGS family
(one of whom married a BENNETT) (see links below), then please include
MHastingsHendrix@ in your reply. They are not a member of the
Mitsawokett list.
(The two links above are from the Headstone Hunters website, where people
can post requests for out-of-locale tombstones to be visited by those who
reside in the area).
Thanks, and good luck!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: MHastingsHendrix@ [SMTP:MHastingsHendrix@]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2001 12:10 PM
To: spiff@
Cc: DELMARVA-L@;desussex-L@;;;
Subject: HEADSTONE HUNTER for Obadiah Hastings - Little Creek Hd., Sussex
Co., DE
Please see my query re subject Obadiah Hasting(s) - may be Hasty - in
. Thanks.
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: CONSELOR |
|Date: |12/11/2001 9:28:39 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: rstephan@ ('Robert S. Ireland') |
|CC: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Hi, Bob.
Sorry for the late reply, but things have been incredibly busy around here
the last few days.
Thanks very much for your response on my McCARTY query. I'm afraid I have
very little information on the CONCEALER / COUNCELLER / COUNCILOR /
CONSELOR branch of my family. There is a good chance of a connection,
however, as Talbot County, MD is not very far from Kent County, DE (where
my CONSELORs were from).
I am cc'ing another list which has several members specifically
researching the CONSELOR family. Perhaps one of them might know of this
Joseph (James) CONSELOR who married Dorcas IRELAND on 01 May 1849 in Talbot
Co, MD. Good luck with your efforts!!
Mitsawokett group: If any of you reply, please include Bob's direct email
address. He is not a member of the Mitsawokett list. See his message
below.
Thanks!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert S. Ireland [SMTP:rstephan@]
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 1:37 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: [MDCAROLI] RE: Can we have a McCarty roll call? What line are
you from?
John,
I have a Joseph (James) CONSELOR who married my Ggrandfather's sister
Dorcas IRELAND 01 May 1849 in Talbot Co., MD. I was wondering if you might
have any information on these two individuals and their offspring. I have
the IRELAND side and am looking to find more on him and any surviving
members.
Thanks,
Bob Ireland
Denton, MD
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: You're back!! |
|Date: |1/17/2002 6:57:55 AM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
|CC: ned@ (ned@) |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Welcome back!!!!!!
Glad to hear all is well. I just mailed a snail-mail letter to you
yesterday, since I wasn't sure when (or if!!!) you were going to come back
online.
Continuing with moderator duties is fine by me. The only thing is--it
might help Ned out somewhat if I were given approval-access as well.
Currently, I can only un-subscribe folks--not approve their joining. The
system (Yahoo) does not even notify me that there is a pending new user,
until AFTER Ned has approved them. I mentioned this in messages to you on
Nov 22nd and Nov 26th, (but realize you have probably been inundated with
messages during the interim you've been off-line). Here is a link that
goes to my moderator-status page at Yahoo, but I'm not sure if this is
where you'd change the settings for me or not. (It looks different from
another page I'd once found):
6543
Anyway, there is a setting somewhere that needs to have the "button"
turned on to designate my ability to approve new memberships.
Other than that, all is going OK. Sounds like your new career is keeping
you healthy! :-) Belated birthday wishes to Betty!!!!
Take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 11:58 PM
To: spiff@; ned@
Subject: Re: I'm back!!
In a message dated 1/12/2002 9:34:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
spiff@ writes:
> Ned forwarded me your message below. (He and I are acting as list
> moderators until Betty & Ray Terry get their computer hooked back up, out
> in Salt Lake where they've moved).
>
Well, hello all. We have been procrastinating a bit since moving in here
Jan
2. We were surprised somewhat by our assignment. We thought we would be
supporting David in his work at the LDS Business College cafeteria. Turns
out we are running the place, supervising 9 student-employees and learning
the food service business.
5 days a week we open up shop at 7 am, close at 1:30 and leave between 5 &
6
pm.
Betty had a 72nd birthday Jan 15 & is holding up very well to the long days
at work (which we had not done since 1995 (B) and 1997 (R). We both are
dragging a bit at night. Until we get a hold of the job (which we started
Dec. 3) we will not be very good communicators. Hope you both can
withstand
the workload and carry on with the moderator duties awhile longer!
Let us know.
B&R
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: You're back!! |
|Date: |1/18/2002 6:50:20 AM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
That's the same page I had sent to you.
Yes, I see the checkmarks on the upper part of the page which state
"Notify this member when....," but if you scroll down below, under
"Moderator Privileges," you will see that there is a RED (signifying "no")
circle next to "Approve pending messages," and "Approve pending members."
Then, I have a GREEN (signifying "yes") circle next to "Invite and add
Members," "Remove members and reset bouncing members," and "Ban members."
Then, I have RED again next to "Add, remove and change moderator
privileges," "Set auto-send options for files," "Change group settings,"
and "Delete this group."
There is another page on which these settings can be changed, and I had
found the page back in November or December when I was trying to reach you
by email, but I was not able to find it yesterday (and don't have time to
look for it this morning since I'm on my way to work). I will try this
evening (well, maybe, I'm supposed to go to dinner with my aunt &
uncle....) or perhaps tomorrow to see if I can find that page again.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 12:36 AM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: You're back!!
In a message dated 1/17/2002 6:57:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
spiff@ writes:
> there is a setting somewhere that needs to have the "button"
> turned on to designate my ability to approve new memberships.
>
Try this -- go to
6543
Near the top of the page click on "Edit my membership"
At the bottom of the page which opens you should see:
Email Notification
Notify me when a member joins/leaves this group or there are new files in
the Files area.
Notify me when there are pending messages/subscriptions which require
approval.
Select your choices and you should be in business! Let us know if you
have
already done this and are without notifications despite such marking.
Sorry to have failed to thank you for the snail mailed DNA testing
information. We appreciate your having taken the time to keep us informed.
We are still unsure whether to expend the dollars to undergo our own
testing.
Please let us know how your latest test turns out.
Have to go to bed now. Up at 5 - 5:30 am depending on calls of nature,
etc.
So different from our previous life!
B&T
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] Re: Hannah Counceller / Thomas Counceller |
|Date: |1/13/2002 2:42:42 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On Jan. 10th, Chuck Counceller wrote:
>> The Hannah Counsellor (b-1830) in question is
>> the daughter of Thomas (the Bloomsbury Thomas)
>> and Mary Gray Counsellor. Mary Gray was the
>> second wife of Thomas's, married Nov 01, 1825
>> in Salem county NJ.
>> Hannah Conselar Cork was the daughter of
>> Jeremiah (son of Elijah). Elijah is believed to
>> be an uncle to the Bloomsbury Thomas.
Hi, Chuck.
Thanks for the clarification! (I had to chart it all out on paper to get
a good understanding of the connections).
Has anyone figured out yet who the father of the Bloomsbury Thomas was?
(I think Ned's directory listed the possibility of a John being his
father...??) If so, then this John is speculated to be Elijah's brother,
right...?
Anyway, thanks again for the information.
Sincerely,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] Re: Coker Lineage (Mosley and Clark) |
|Date: |2/9/2002 12:36:49 AM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
|CC: lhsissylee@ ('lhsissylee@') |
On Feb 7th, Beverley wrote:
>> I tried to contact Lisa Coker Hurd at the
>> e-mail given in this correspondence. Apparently
>> it is not a valid address because the message
>> came back to me. Any suggestions?
Hi, Beverley.
Lisa Coker Hurd shows as still being registered on this list with the
address of lhsissylee@ (joined as of August 2000), but in
looking at messages I received off-line from her, she was using
lhsissylee@ as of this last October (most recent message received
from her in December).
Hope this helps.
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: You're back!! |
|Date: |1/21/2002 8:27:05 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
That worked! Thanks!
(I no longer see colors either--they've been replaced by checkmarks now....)
Anyway, thanks again.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 4:33 AM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: You're back!!
In a message dated 1/20/2002 11:09:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
spiff@ writes:
>
> If you go to your own member listing, you will see that you have a
> GREEN
> button next to the option for "Add, remove and change moderator
> privileges." This will give you the access you need in order to change my
> button from RED to GREEN for "Approve pending messages" and "Approve
> pending members."
>
No colors on our page. We did edit you on the member page to have privaleges
as follows --
Moderator Privileges
This moderator has basic privileges in the Files, Calendar, Surveys, and
Bookmarks areas.
Approve pending messages
Add, remove, and change moderator privileges
Approve pending members
Set auto-send options for files
Invite and add members
Change group settings
Remove members and reset bouncing members
Delete this group
Ban members
Let us know if it works.
| |
| |
|Subj: |FW#2: current draft letter |
|Date: |2/4/2002 6:53:07 AM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: deborahpunger@ ('Pierce, Debbie'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn'), bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
The latest on Bloomsbury.
JCC
-----Original Message-----
From: Ned Heite [SMTP:ned@]
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 11:03 PM
To: cblume6@; lheite@; lheite@kpbsd.k12.ak.us; Kim Dugan;
grungetta@; LEBROWNING@worldnet.;
imshedevil2001@; Heritage49@; Dennis Coker:;;
RHITES@; Spiff@
Subject: current draft letter
Here is the draft letter. I'm going to bed. In the morning I will
re-read it and consider any comments. Then I'm going to print and
distribute. Watch the papers. The AP story is supposed to be
released Monday morning. Let me know if you see it.
Ms. Carolann Wicks
Delaware Department of Transportation
800 Bay Road
Dover, Delaware 19903
Dear Ms. Wicks:
Thanks to the Associated Press FOI request for their release, I have
obtained a copy of the transcript of your October 26 meeting with the
Clarks. It was a relief to finally see the charges that have been
levelled against me, but a disappointment to see that your agency had
accorded so much weight to such nonsense in your decision-making.
I am shocked and appalled at the lies, misrepresentations, and
outright slanders recorded in that transcript. I hope that the State
of Delaware has the decency to dismiss these ad hominem attacks
against me, my colleagues, and my professional record.
In this response, I restrict my comments to the Clarks' remarks about
the Bloomsbury report. Much of the session apparently was taken up
with irrelevant attacks on me, my subsequent emails, and my work on
behalf of the Native American people in this region.
The Clarks' comments keep returning to the issue of official
recognition for tribal entities. While recognition is important for
tribal leadership, it has no meaning whatever within the context of
our study. We have been studying communities on a level of social
history that transcends membership in any organized body. For this
reason, I find much of the content of their presentation utterly
irrelevant to our study.
If the Clarks' statements have influenced the consultant's report, I
feel obliged to demand an opportunity to review the report and append
comments before it is released to the public. I cannot take lightly
the unsupportable charges levelled against me, and the harm the
report's suppression has caused to me and to my firm, professionally
and personally.
I don't need to defend my work, and the work of my colleagues, on
behalf of this region's Native American people.
Because inflammatory statements by the Clarks have been inserted into
the public record, I feel I must add some corrections, citing pages
in the transcript. The first example illustrates the scale of
distortions that permeate the Clarks' statements.
Page 17: He gives the impression just in this one paragraph that
Indians who chose to stay here gave up their identity, which isn't
the truth at all.
Page 15: No, we are here because he says we renounced our heritage.
Page 50: Ned wants to say the real Nanticoke went north.
The paragraph on page 50 of our report, to which Clark refers, says
nothing about renouncing identity or heritage. We stated that they
"masked" their native culture, and that they were "indistinguishable
in the record from their white neighbors." Indistinguishable in the
record does not mean that they gave up their identity. Here is what
we actually wrote:
Indians in the east are here because their ancestors consciously
masked their native culture. During the removal period, Indians who
chose to retain their traditional way of life were packed off to a
sequence of distant reservations. Those who chose to stay in their
home territories adopted European ways and acculturated as quickly as
possible. Rather than live on tribal reservations, they acquired land
in the European tenure system, and became landowners
indistinguishable on the record from theri white neighbors.
We wrote a whole chapter on the "invisibility" problem that bedevils
researchers working on the history of postcontact Native populations
in the eastern United States. Throughout the transcript, the Clarks
have twisted our statements to make it seem that we have said the
exact opposite of what is on paper in our report for all to see. In
fact, our Bloomsbury research demonstrated the survival of certain
Native crafts more than a century after acculturation began. So it's
clear that the Native people didn't renounce their heritage.
Page 7: And you know, in 1881, there were laws passed that delineated
who the Nanticoke Indian people were. To this day, all of the people
in our tribe have to connect back to that list.
The 1881 law said nothing of the sort.
The law did not mention Indians.
It merely allowed a group of named individuals to set up a separate
school district, and to tax themselves for its support, much like a
modern charter school. The school law was an important step in the
struggle for recognition, but it did not recognize an Indian tribe.
Nor did it define who was a Nanticoke Indian; it merely lists people
who signed a petition. Yet the Clarks insist that the list of names
in the 1881 law constitutes a tribal roll! The exaggeration was
extended:
Page 26: It's part of the Delaware law that you can't bring anyone in
our tribe who doesn't connect to that tribal roll.
If there is such a law, we are unable to identify it. Kenneth Clark
also compares the 1881 list to a federally-created tribal roll of
Lenape people in Oklahoma:
Page 10: We know every tribe in this country has a tribal roll to go
through. There is not one tribe in this country that exists without
tribal rolls. The Lenape group, the recognized Lenape people in
Oklahoma, their tribal rolls go back to 1906. Our tribal rolls go
back to 1881. So our rolls are actually a quarter of a century older
than Lenape in Oklahoma which is the only recognized group.
A simple incorporation law has been invested with a significance far
beyond its actual place in history. Here is the text of the 1881 law.
Judge for yourself:
An Act to exempt certain persons from the operation of Chapter 48 of
Volume 15 of the Laws of Delaware, and to enable them to establish
schools for their children in Sussex County
Section 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Represetnatives
of the State of Delaware in General Assembly met (two-thirds of each
branch of the legislature concurring), that Whittington Johnson,
William A. Johnson, Samuel B. Norwood, George L. Norwood, Robert W.
Norwood, Elisha Wright, Return Wright, Selema Wright, Nicholas
Wright, James H. Kimmey, Robert Clark, Thomas H. Clark, Myers B.
Clark, Isaac Harmon, John Harmon, James H. Clark, William R. Clark,
Ann Johnson, Robert B. Johnson, John Thompson, Theodore Harmon,
Stephen M. Norwood, John Harmon, Mitchell Harmon, Gardiner Draine,
David P. Street, David R. Street, David Wright, George W. Clark,
Elias C. Clark, William Clark, all of whom are residents of Indian
River Hundred and Sussex County of this state are hereby and shall be
hereafter exempted and relieved from the operation and burdens of
Chapter 48 of Volume 15 of the Laws of Delaware, entitled, An Act to
tax colored persons for the support of their own schools and the said
Chapter 48 of Volume 15 of the Laws of Delaware shall in no manner
apply to them.
Section 2. Be it further enacted, that the parties named in the first
section and their successors are hereby incorporated in constituted a
body politic under the name of "The Indian River School Districts for
a certain class of colored persons," and in such name, may among
other things, have a corporate seal, take and hold ground for two
school houses, and the appurtenances and furniture, and for such
purpose may take and hold by devise, bequest or donations, real and
personal estate not exceeding in annual income five hundred dollars,
for the use of the schools in said district, and may alein the same;
may take bond from their collector; may prosecute actions upon it,
and any action for injury done to any property of the district, in
which they shall recover double damages and costs, and also any
action for a forfeiture or penalty due to the district; any of the
said actions may be brought before a justice of the peace, if the
sums demanded do not exceed one hundred dollars and he shall proceed
as in other demands of like amount. The said district shall not
possess any powers or franchises other than those hereby expressly
given it.
Section 3. Be it further enacted - that anyone may hereafater be made
a member of this corporation by a two thirds vote of those present at
any stated meeting thereof, upon his posting thirty days before said
stated meeting written notice of his application for membership on
the front door of each school house, provided that no one shall be a
member of this corporation who does not belong to the class of
colored persons to which those mentioned in section one belong; is
not above the age of twenty one years, a citizen of this state and a
resident of said Indian River Hundred.
Section 4. Be it further enacted that the said corporation shall be
divided into two sub-districts called respectively "Warwick District"
and "Hollyville District." The limits of said sub-districts shall be
defined by five members of the corporation to be selected by ballot
at the first meeting of the corporation. They shall make report of
their proceedings to the corporation and the same shall be recorded
in its records but said limits may in like manner be at any time
changed, the five members only to be appointed at a stated annual
meeting.
Section 5. Be it further enacted that the persons named in section
one of this act shall meet on the first Saturday of April next at two
o'clock in the afternoon at some place to be selected by a majority,
and shall procede, after selecting a chairman and secretary to elect
by ballot two school committees, one for each of said sub-districts.
Such school committees shall consist of a clerk and two commissioners
and shall be elected for the term of three years. They shall also
resolve by a majority vote what sum shall be raised for the prupose
of purchasing a lot of ground and erecting thereon a school house in
each of said sub-districts provided said sum shall not excede the sum
of four hundred dollars and shall also resolve by a like vote what
sum shall be raised for the purpose of supporting the said two
schools for the ensuing year, provided said sum shall not excede the
sum of two hundred dollars.
Section 6. Be it further enacted that the members of said corporation
shall have a stated meeting every year on the first Saturday of April
at two o'clock in the afternoon. Such meeting shall be held at the
Warwick School House and Hollyville School House in the alternate
years, and shall be kept open at least one hour. Every member who has
paid his school tax for the preceding year shall have a right to
vote. One third of the members of the corporation shall constitute a
quorum and may procede to business. They may appoint a Secretary and
Chairman and shall resolve by a majority vote what ever shall be
raised for the support of said two schools provided that said sum
shall not excede in any one year the sum of two hundred dollars in
the aggregate. They shall also elect a school committee as aforesaid
for the term of three yeaars whenever the terms have expired and
shall have the power to fill any vacancies by electing some one to
serve for the residue of the term. They shall also at said stated
meeting elect by ballot five members who shall then and there procede
to apportion to each member of the corporation his or her share or
portion of the sum to be raised during the ensuing year for school
purposes as aforesaid and shall make report of the same to the said
meeting. Any member of the corporation who is dissatisfied with the
report may appeal to the meeting stating his grounds and the matter
shall be there and then decided by a majority vote. When said report
has been adopted by a majority vote it shall be fixed and conclusive
upon all parties. They shall also at said meeting elect a collector,
to whom they shall give a proper warrant to collect the sum aforesaid
from the parties upon whom it is assessed and who shall give bond in
the penal sum of four hundred dollars for the proper performance of
his duties. His oath shall be proof of a demand, and if a member does
not pay the amount apportioned to him for ten days after demand the
collector may bring suit therefor before a justice of the peace. The
collector for the past year shall at said stated meeting render an
account thereto which shall be at once examined by a committee of
three to be appointed by the chairman.
Section 7. Be it further enacted that the School Committee of each
sub-district shall select the teachers for these respective schools
but the stated annual meeting shall determine how many months the
school shall be open and how much money shall be apportioned to each
sub district from the aggregate sum to be raised for the year. Each
school shall be open to all the children between the ages of seven
and twenty one of those members who have duly paid to the collector
of the preceding year the sums with which they were charged.
Section 8. Be it further enacted that any member who has paid all the
sums with which he is charged as aforesaid may withdraw from
membership in said corporation by giving notice at the annual stated
meeting of his intention so to do, providing however that he shall
immediately thereupon become again liable to the provisions of the
said Chapter 48 of volume 15 of the Laws of Delaware.
Passed at Dover March 10, 1881
Reynear Williams
Speaker of the House of Representatives
The law created a school system for a "certain class of colored
people," and listed the people who requested the proposed school.
Yet the Nanticoke Indian Association insists upon telling us that
this law is tribal recognition, and Kenneth Clark claims that the
list of subscribers is a tribal roll.
Mr. Clark said, relative to this law (page 35), that "They recognized
us as an indigenous group and gave us the - they stopped taxing us
for schools." There is not a word about an "indigenous group"
anywhere in the law (above). Credibility is being stretched to the
breaking point here.
Page 20: A 1903 law that was passed specifically says you prove who
you are to the satisfaction of the chief and the tribal council of
the Nanticoke Indian Tribe. A certificate would be given to you.
The 1903 law says nothing of the sort.
It recognizes descendants of Nanticoke Indians, and makes no mention
of a tribe or tribal council. Here is the text. See if you can find
any reference to an organized Indian tribe. It mentions only
"descendants" in all three counties:
Senate Bill 110
An Act to better establish the identity of a race of people known as
the offspring of the
Nanticoke Indians
Passed at Dover March 18, 1903
Be it enacted by the Senate ond House of Representatives of the State
of Delaware in
General Assembly met:
Section 1. That the class of people, known as the descendants of the
Nanticoke Indians, formerly of Sussex County but at present located
in the several counties of the state, desiring to migrate may appear
before any Justice of the Peace or Notary Public, of this State, and
on the evidence and proof that he or she belongs to, or is a
descendant of the Nanticoke Indians, may procure from such Justice of
the Peace or Notary Public a certificate reciting such facts.
Section 2. That after the approval of this Act the descendants of the
Nanticoke Indians named in Section 1 of this Act shall hereafter be
recognized as such within the State of Delaware.
Section 3. This Act shall be deemed a public Act.
Approved this the 23rd day of March AD 1903
John Hunn
Governor
Philip L. Cannon
President of the Senate
While the 1903 law is important to the history of Native American
identity in Delaware, it has nothing whatever to do with the
Nanticoke Indian Association, which didn't exist for another 19
years. It doesn't even identify the people as Nanticokes, only as
descendants of Nanticokes. Another state law, mentioned several
times in the transcript, is the Delaware unmarked burials law, Senate
Bill 12, 134th General Assembly, 1987. This, according to the Clarks,
identifies the Nanticoke Indian Association as a recognized tribe.
Here is the preamble:
WHEREAS, the Nanticoke tribe has inhabited the Delmarva
Peninsula for hundreds upon hundreds of years; and
WHEREAS,the Nanticoke Indian tribe is proud of its heritage and
maintains great reverence for the honor and dignity of its ancestors
and other Indians who once inhabited the lands now comprising the
State of Delaware and the Delmarva Peninsula, and
WHEREAS, the reverence and respect owed these ancestors of the
Nanticoke tribe and other Indians who once inhabited the lands now
comprising the State of Delaware and the Delmarva Peninsula has been
greatly compromised by the excavations and display of the skeletal
remains of these ancestors at such places as the Island Field Site
near South Bowers; and
WHEREAS, these noble ancestors of the Nanticoke and other former
native inhabitants should be allowed to rest in peace and dignity
without having their remains exposed and placed on public display; and
WHEREAS, the Nanticoke Indian tribe is the sole remaining Indian
tribe in the State of Delaware and thus the sole remaining
representative of all of the tribes that once inhabited what is nov
Delaware,
This is only the preamble; the law itself, which is Code, makes no
such declarations. A preamble is not law. Nor is a legislative
declaration a statement of historical fact. Even though the preamble
is factually incorrect, the Clarks keep bringing it up, as if the
General Assembly were the final authority on historical fact.
When we discussed the obsolete term "tri-racial isolate," the Clarks
accused us of applying the term to the Nanticoke. This is not true.
Page 20: So starts off his premise of tri-racialism and tri-racial
isolate. All of a sudden we are lumped into that. He doesn't bother
supporting. He doesn't bother saying why there's no reference to
that. He just says it.
Actually there are seven bibliographical citations in that section on
page 48 of the final draft that went to the printer. The
term"tri-racial isolates" is distasteful today, but it is part of
history that we must recognize. We discuss in some detail the
historical issues, but in no way did we ever imply that the Clark
family have black ancestry. In our summary of that section, we
stated exactly the opposite:
As details have fallen together, it has become apparent that the
isolate groups are, in fact, remnant Native American communities that
have remained outside the official system of recognized tribes.
One of their sticking points seems to be our statement that the
Indian River, Cheswold, and Bridgeton populations are genealogically
indistinguishable. In the transcript, the Nanticoke make statements
that don't really relate to this issue. When we said they were
genealogically indistinguishable, we meant that families in the three
communities trace back to the same small group of eighteenth-century
ancestors, and that the families subsequently intermarried. I
verified this statement with several genealogists, members of all
three communities, who agree that it is a true statement. This is
not the place to go into detailed genealogies, but I would like to
cite a few examples:
1. William Handsor lived in both Sussex and Kent counties during the
eighteenth century and has descendants in both communities today.
Virtually all the Native American families in all three communities
are somehow descended from Handsor and his contemporaries.
2. One of our team of genealogists reports that she had three
grandparents from Cheswold and one from Indian River, through whom
she was admitted to the Nanticoke Indian Association.
3. Today most of my acquaintances in the three communities have close
relatives by blood or marriage in one or both of the others. For
example, Urie Ridgeway, an officer of the state-recognized New Jersey
group, is the son of a Cheswold native and descends from one of the
core families of the Indian River community.
4. Lenape chairman Dennis Coker, who is a third cousin of Charles
Clark, is descended from one of the families that lived at
Bloomsbury. His mother is from New Jersey and his father is from
Cheswold.
Page 46: All of a sudden, page 57, he begins to get deeper into the
Nanticoke, Sussex County Nanticoke. Indian awareness has a longer
history among the closely related group. Automatically assuming that
we are closely related to people in Cheswold. Why not support it? Why
not show some support?
There simply is no basis for disputing our statement that the three
communities are a single genealogical group. A "proof" of this
statement would require reams of documentation, but Mr. and Mrs.
Terry provided a sample when we met at the DelDOT headquarters. We
are not talking about occasional intermarriage with other groups, as
the Clarks suggest, but intertwined lines of descent from common
ancestors back three centuries. The Clarks' remarks on the subject
merely trivialize the historical facts regarding their own ancestry
and display either ignorance of the facts or intentional
falsification.
We stand by our statement on page 53:
Delaware legally recognizes an organized Sussex County Nanticoke
tribal group, which contains individuals with near relatives in Kent
County and New Jersey communities that are not legally recognized by
state or federal authorities. The three communities are
genealogically indistinguishable.
One of the New Jersey groups, based in Bridgeton, is recognized by
the State of New Jersey, and calls itself Nanticoke-Lenape because a
significant number of its antecedents were from Indian River, as we
describe in the report.
The Clarks have inserted totally unrelated matters in an attempt to
divert attention from the report itself. For example, in response to
the paragraph above, Mr. Charles Clark is quoted as saying, beginning
with a misquote:
Page 42: So when he says we are historically and genealogically
indistinguishable, he's wrong because history shows we couldn't walk
down our community block and get a high school education. The folks
in Cheswold could. You get a high school education if you were,
quote, a Moor. You couldn't get one in Delaware if you were an Indian.
We never said they were historically indistinguishable. In fact, we
made an effort to distinguish between the histories of the three
closely-related communities.
Such deliberate distortion occurs throughout the Clarks'
presentation, but I have neither the time nor the energy to keep
pointing it out. On the subject of high school educations, every
"colored" pupil - black, Moor, or Indian - was entitled to attend the
high school at Delaware State College or, later, the Jason or William
Henry high schools. Both the Nanticokes and the Lenape people in
Cheswold found other sources of education, which we describe in the
report. Some people from both communities could have gone to
"colored" schools, but not by choice.
We dealt with the incredibly complex issue of separate schools in one
paragraph, which was all it deserved in the context, on page 56:
A few "moor or "Indian" schools eventually were established within
the colored system, but only at the elementary level. Some went
without education rather than attend segregated black school; others
moved away to less segregated states, or sent their children to
schools in unsegregated jurisdictions (Heite and Heite 1985).
This paragraph describes the situation beginning in 1868 that lasted
nearly a century. Among the events during that period was the 1881
school act the Clarks keep mentioning. There were other provisions
for other "Moor" schools, but we had no room for them, either. We
weren't writing about schools; we were writing a social history of a
community, which is only peripherally involved with formal
institutional history.
Page 53: I will tell you this. Based upon newspaper articles that
I've read, there was an article in the News Journal a year or two ago
where the people in Dover and Ned and them actually contacted a man
in Idaho or Iowa, someplace out - like going out that part of the
country, western part of the country, and called to [tel]l him that
he was connected to this group out here. And the man was surprised
where he says, I always thought I was white. I never knew I was - so
you're asking the question that they didn't know they were Lenape.
The person in question is Charles Councellor from Indiana, who is
descended from the Thomas Concellor who lived at Bloomsbury. Chuck
got in touch with us, not the other way around. He was unaware that
his ancestor was Indian, but did tell us that the son of Thomas was
shunned because he was "dark," after he moved to Indiana. He is
justly proud of his Indian ancestry and has taken an interest in the
community from which his forefathers emigrated. A nationwide
awareness of their Delaware heritage has arisen among descendants of
the Cheswold Native American community, in no small part a result of
the reports we have generated for DelDOT.
Last October, Lenape from all over the country met in Vineland, New
Jersey, and I spoke on their heritage. This April, the Lenape will
gather in the Cheswold area, and again I will be a speaker on their
history.
Page 129: Another e-mail on November 5th, '98, the Indian community
throughout Delaware is totally intermarried. He also talks about how
he was descended from a Cheswold community ancestor, Owen Seeney, but
that is another story. That was back in '98. Ned now claims to be a
member of that group.
This rhetoric again muddies the waters. We never intended to provide
criteria for identifying modern people as Indians. I happen to
descend from one of the progenitors of the local Lenape population,
but I have never claimed to be an Indian. Instead, I am proud to
point out that the Lenape have made me an honorary member of their
tribal group. To me, this banter is all irrelevant to the historical
narrative.
Page 61: Judge George Purnell Fisher - judge. He says this as if he
was the judge of the trial. Now, you expect a judge to be impartial
and fair. That's why they are a judge.
George Purnell Fisher was the prosecutor in the case. He later
became chief justice of the District of Columbia. We introduced him
as "Judge George Purnell Fisher, who as a young man prosecuted Harman
and Sockum ...". Where did we claim he was the judge in the trial?
This kind of illogical statement is almost impossible to counter,
especially when Charles Clark says:
Page 61: So he cites George Purnell Fisher's account in a newspaper
in 1895 about the Lydia Clark trial. That's misleading. He wasn't a
judge. He was the prosecuting attorney.
Yet again, Mr. Clark distorts our statements.
Judge Fisher's memoir is the only reliable source we have for the
proceedings, and he was sympathetic to Sockum's cause and the other
"moor" people he evidently counted as his friends. Judge Fisher never
put much credence in the Lydia Clark testimony, but as prosecutor he
was obliged to use it. The other account is a mere docket entry,
that tells almost nothing about what occurred. Some details, such as
the allegation that Lydia Clark was "influenced" by threats from her
white benefactor, came from Chief Russel Clark. All the to-do about
the format of the court docket is sophistry, that has no bearing on
what was said at the trial.
Page 84: This report throws all that stuff out the door. It makes it
unimportant. It makes it - this report puts the folks in Cheswold at
a parity with us, even though they don't have the history we have,
even though they don't have the continuity of government, even though
they don't have Delaware law behind them, even though they don't have
historical fact behind them. He puts us on a parallel and says we are
indistinguishable historically and genealogically.
Again, we never said they were historically indistinguishable.
They are the same genealogical entity, but of course they have
different history. Since we are discussing the social history of a
community, the history of the Nanticoke Indian Association is
peripheral to our studies.
In other parts of the transcript, which I don't choose to answer,
Charles and Kenneth Clark refer to the Mitsawokett online mailing
list and the Mitsawokett web page as if they were my personal outlet.
Nothing could be farther from the truth. The web page is
administered by Betty and Ray Terry, whose track records as Native
American genealogists is above reproach. The list is an open forum,
to which anyone can contribute. I am one of three moderators, whose
role is to post new members and to remove anyone who is unruly or
abusive. Fortunately, we have never needed to dump anyone. None of
the moderators has any control of what appears on the list.
I'm proud of my contributions to the Mitsawokett mailing list and web
page. It grew out of the outreach from our Bloomsbury work, and it
has contributed vastly to the historical and genealogical body of
knowledge. If Charles Clark is upset that his grandmother's
published obituary was reproduced on the Mitsawokett page, that is
his problem, not mine. Lots of obituaries are on the web page
because they have considerable research value.
Sincerely,
Edward F. Heite
Registered Professional Archeologist
Principal Investigator
cc: Lee Ann Walling, Governor's Office
Secretary Hayward, DelDOT
Hon. Nancy Cook, Delaware State Senate
Daniel Griffith, SHPO
Kevin Cunningham, DelDOT
Cara L. Blume, Heite Consulting
Dennis Coker, Lenape Indian Tribe of Delaware
Mark Gould, Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape Indians of New Jersey
Randall Chase, Associated Press
Joyce Mullins, Dover Post
J. L. Miller, News Journal
--
*************************** Ned Heite (Ned@)
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: James Jackson (b. 1818) |
|Date: |2/9/2002 2:21:45 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: jhammell@ ('jhammell@') |
|CC: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Hi, John & Linda.
I'm sorry, but I don't have any info on the Jacksons you mentioned.
(Mitsawokett group: see message attached below).
However, I am cc'ing a genealogy research group (Mitsawokett) I belong to
which has several members with ties to Jacksons in Kent and Sussex Counties
in Delaware, just across the border from the Talbot County, MD area. Most
of our Jacksons descend from a Wesley Jackson (b. 11 Jul 1811) and
Elizabeth Palmer Jackson (b. 06 Jan 1820), who lived in Sussex County, DE.
However, perhaps someone may be familiar with the Jacksons you seek.
(Is there any history of Native American ancestry among your Jacksons?)
Good luck!
John
P.S. Here are a couple of websites to check out:
20Reports
(scroll about half-way down, below the divider-header "Family History
Reports" and click on "Descendants of Wesley Jackson")
(click on "Families" then on "Jackson")
-----Original Message-----
From: John & Linda Hammell [SMTP:jhammell@]
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 5:59 AM
To: Kay@; schulzegs@; lcsudler@; buncabunc2@;
spiff@; dhenry@; denicola@; joneal@;
bluejeans@
Subject: James Jackson
Looking for information on James Jackson born abt 1818, Talbot County.
Married
Rachel (Jane) L. Collison 26 Jan 1841. Children were William Edward, James
C.
Ellen Virginia and Josphine.
Any and all information is appreciated.
Thanks
Maryland/Eastern Shore Genealogy
John & Linda Hammell
| |
| |
|Subj: |Levi Mosley, spouse of Mary Elizabeth Jackson |
|Date: |2/9/2002 2:24:15 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn') |
|CC: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine') |
Hi, Lynn.
How have you been?
Hope all is well with you.
I was just entering some Jackson info into my FTM, and had a quick
question for you. I noticed that both the Mitsawokett web site and your
web site have Mary Elizabeth Jackson (daughter of William Wesley "Whiskey"
Jackson and Elizabeth Palmer) as having married a Levi Mosley on 30 Dec
1858 in Sussex Co.
Which Levi Mosley is this? I looked up all the Levi Mosleys in my FTM
from that time frame, and they each already had another wife listed. Did
this Levi have more than one wife? Who was/were his other wife/wives? (Or
parents).
Just thought I'd try to get him connected properly.
Thanks!!
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Scanned photos on the way... |
|Date: |3/9/2002 11:10:11 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Hi, yet again.
:-)
Paul Ridgway's mother (Liz) was a Pierce before she married, but I have
nothing further on her family.
Thanks for the nice words. It's pleasing to be described as "persistently
dedicated and able" when I constantly feel guilty at being SOOOOOOOOO far
behind!!! And it has been much, much worse lately, because I've had a
couple of breakthroughs on my mom's side, as well as have become the
owner/moderator of another family group (with Yahoo, just like Mitsawokett)
on my mom's side, sparking much new correspondence, for which I am deeply,
deeply behind with.
* sigh *
And my office is COVERED with papers, photographs, death certificates,
scribbled notes, screen-prints, newspaper articles, SAR/DAR application
stuff, DNA genealogy material, Civil War related stuff, etc, etc, and can
never seem to get even remotely caught up!
(And to think: I'm actually considering trying to go back to school this
coming August???? AAUUGGHH!!!!)
Speaking of DNA genealogy, you've probably noticed I STILL haven't sent
out the promised email summarizing the latest test results. Have been
trying to get to this for at least 3 weeks or more.... Will HOPEFULLY get
to this tomorrow....
As for the SAR/DAR stuff, Debbie Pierce as well as another Durham
cousin/descendant here in Florida are interested in joining the DAR. I am
making copies of the Revolutionary War grain records material for them to
use. But Debbie is much further behind than I am (her job keeps her much
busier), and I don't know when they'll ever find time for applying. I'm
also working with a Coker cousin who lives in Phoenix to get him pointed in
the right direction for his local SAR chapter, and will be making him
copies of the grain records as well.
I also need to get some more Civil War pension/military record requests
sent in before the end of the month, as the National Archives are switching
(yet again) to a new form, and I want to use the remaining forms that I
have. When I was up in NJ & DE last summer, I took photographs of a few
other Civil War graves for which I want to attempt to order records.
Speaking of taking photos, I just bought a digital camera last weekend.
Haven't had much chance to practice with it yet, though....
OK, that's all for now.
Thanks again for the message, and for uploading the scans.
Take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 10:24 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: Scanned photos on the way...
In a message dated 3/9/2002 10:10:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
spiff@ writes:
> Are you still uploading photos to the Mitsawokett site?
>
Yes, indeedy. Have not done it for awhile. Will do as soon as you send
them.
We sent ancestry reports recently to Paul Ridgway and to Joan Johnson
Blanchfield. Joan may be surprised at the amount of info we had on her
family. Have yet to hear back from either with corrections, etc. We know
nothing about Paul's mother's side of his family, just that her name is
Liz.
We appreciate having you to work with. It's rare to find one so
persistently
dedicated and able as yourself. Thanks for keeping us pointed in the right
direction!
B&R
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Welcome to Mitsawokett |
|Date: |3/9/2002 9:44:52 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On 3/09, Paul H. Ridgway, Jr. wrote (in response to the new member
auto-reply on behalf of the group moderators):
>> I am Paul H Ridgway jr, son of Paul H Ridgway sr,
>> Grandson of Vincent Ridgway.
Welcome, Paul!!
I'm not sure, but I think your parents are the same Paul & Liz Ridgway who
are close friends of my Aunt Evelyn & Uncle Bert. (??)
Anyway, according to my database, I show that your grandfather Vincent was
the son of John Henry Ridgway, Sr. and Minnie Durham. John Henry in turn
was the son of Tilghman Ridgway, Sr. and Sina Mosley.
I show Vincent's wife to be Anna Mae Durham, but I do not have her
parents' names. Do you know who they were?
Thanks, and again, welcome to the group!
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |Scanned photos on the way... |
|Date: |3/9/2002 10:10:17 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Are you still uploading photos to the Mitsawokett site?
I'm going to send 3 which I've recently scanned, before I forget about them!
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |Durhams |
|Date: |3/9/2002 10:55:40 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
|File: |Durhams.JPG (22084 bytes) DL Time (115200 bps): < 1 minute |
Hi, once more.
This shot is one I recently got a copy of from Debbie Pierce. (By the
way, her divorce is final and she is no longer Debbie Pierce Unger--just
Debbie Pierce).
Anyway, this is a shot of six of the ten children of James E. H. "Porter"
Durham and Harriett Jane Durham Durham.
Left to right, back row--
Anna Mae Durham Durham
Gertrude "Gertie" Durham Durham
Mary Durham Pierce
Left to right, front row--
Laura Durham Jackson Durham
Roy Durham
Carlotta / Charlotte "Lottie" Durham Cox
Please label this one as "Courtesy of Debbie Pierce."
Thanks!
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: William R. Ridgway |
|Date: |3/19/2002 6:55:12 AM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Will try to get to this one this evening....
Thanks again,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 11:11 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Fwd: William R. Ridgway
Right you are, John, about the Mosley-Clark photos. We will get them
corrected.
Any comments about the Ridgway forwarded message? We are finding it hard to
stay awake at the computer. We arrived at the college today at 7 am and got
home a few minutes ago after some shopping (8:30 pm) and are nodding off here.
B&R
-----Original Message-----
From: Altumsplendis@ [SMTP:Altumsplendis@]
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 4:55 PM
To: BettyandRayTerry@
Subject: Re: William R. Ridgway
Hello,
My name is Lynette Capetillo and I am the oldest granddaughter of
William R. Ridgway and Anna F. Ridgway Nee: Johnson. I happen to come across
your site and became very excited, I was trying to find some information on
my family. I found my grandfather's name, but i found some discrepencies in
the information. I would like to give you the information that i have which
hopefully will be a help in keeping your records. My grandfather William
Roland Ridgway was adopted by William P. "Nuke" Ridgway and Viola S. Ridgway
Nee: Pierce. They also adopted Anna Mae.
But Vannetta, Ethel, and Dorothy were not the children of Walter P. Ridgway
and
Viola Ridgway. Vannetta, Ethel, Dorothy and my grandfather William were all
natural
brother and sisters. The only information that I have on them is that they
were born to a Reba Gould with the possible nee of Williams?. They may have
different fathers this I am not sure of. I do know that Vannetta and William
have different fathers. Also, Reba raised the girls but gave William up for
adoption as a baby.If you have any other information on them I would be very
intrested in learning about them. My grandmother was born to Arlissa Johnson
nee: Wright. She had one sister
Rebecca, who married Russell Pierce, she also had one brother Melvin Johnson
also know as Bucky. Uncle Bucky is married to Lillian. There father's name
was Elwood Johnson. My great-grand mother Arlissa divorced Elwood and
married James Mulford. He was a trash collector around Fairfield Township.
I know that my Aunt Becky had many children all there names i dont know, my
Uncle Bucky didnt have any. My grandmother had 7 children from my
grandfather William, my mother being one. I'll end with that since I dont
know too much about my past relations but if you need more information and I
can assist, i would be more than happy.
Please feel free to e-mail me with any questions or information at my return
address, any information would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely,
Lynette Capetillo
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: USGS......JACKSON |
|Date: |2/11/2002 9:37:42 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: bluejeans@ ('michelle kenerly') |
|CC: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Hi, Michelle.
Wow, this is the 2nd query I've received on Jacksons this week--and both
from Maryland near the Delaware border! (I will forward you the other
message, in case you recognize any connection with that researcher).
I'm sorry, but I don't have any info on the Jacksons you mentioned.
(Mitsawokett group: see message attached below).
However, I am cc'ing a genealogy research group (Mitsawokett) I belong to
which has several members with ties to Jacksons in Kent and Sussex Counties
in Delaware. Most of our Jacksons descend from a Wesley Jackson (b. 11 Jul
1811) and Elizabeth Palmer Jackson (b. 06 Jan 1820), who lived in Sussex
County, DE. However, perhaps someone may be familiar with the family you
seek.
(Is there any history of Native American ancestry among your Jacksons?)
Good luck!
John
P.S. Here are a couple of websites to check out:
20Reports
(scroll about half-way down, below the divider-header "Family History
Reports" and click on "Descendants of Wesley Jackson")
(click on "Families" then on "Jackson")
-----Original Message-----
From: michelle kenerly [SMTP:bluejeans@]
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 2:54 AM
To: spiff@
Subject: USGS......JACKSON
Hi: Seeking info on Mary JACKSON who married Thomas DeFord POORE
They had daughter Rebecca who married Edward BURRIS. Their son Addison
Gooden BURRIS was my grandfather, born ca 1875 in MD (Just across from the
DE line).
Michelle Burris Kenerly
bluejeans@
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Welcome to Mitsawokett |
|Date: |2/17/2002 12:10:31 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Hi, Nicole.
Thanks--we are happy to have you with the group!
:-)
Which one of Henry's children is your parent? I show he and Edith "Edie"
Ethel (Sammons) as having 5 children: Edith "Edie" Elizabeth, Henry
Ephraim Jr., Marvin Wayne, Diana Lynn and Fred Arthur.
Take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: metnvab@ [SMTP:metnvab@]
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 3:59 AM
To: Mitsawokett Moderator
Subject: Re: Welcome to Mitsawokett
Hello.
My name is Nicole Ridgeway Brown, granddaughter of Henry Ephraim Ridgeway,
Sr. My email address is: metnvab@ . I am learning so much about
my family and truly appreciate the opportunity to contribute to the group.
Sincerely,
Nicole
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] 200 members on Mitsawokett list!!! |
|Date: |2/19/2002 11:16:42 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Hello, all.
Just a quick note to say that we have hit the 200 mark for number of
members on the Mitsawokett list!!
Thanks very much to all who have been sharing such valuable data with each
other.
And a big "Welcome!!" to all the recent new members!!
Sincerely,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Unnamed child |
|Date: |2/13/2002 7:02:53 AM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On Feb 12th, Ed Bush wrote:
I have the birth certificate of an unnamed male
born to Lizzie Durham, out of wedlock, on
February 11, 1910, in Delaware Twp. (now
Cherry Hill), Camden Co., NJ. Lizzie is
Elizabeth T. Durham, daughter of Benjamin and
Sarah Durham. Does anyone have any
information on this child?
Hi, Ed.
Which Benjamin and Sarah are we talking about? I have 11 different
Benjamin Durhams in my database, with at least 3 of them married to Sarahs
or Sallies within the approximate time frame.
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Unnamed child |
|Date: |2/13/2002 7:50:20 AM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: edmargebush@ |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ |
I am referring to Benjamin Durham who is the son of Henry Durham and Rachel Hughes, and Sarah Durham who is the daughter of Benjamin F. Durham and Mary Songo.
Ed
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Unnamed child |
|Date: |2/15/2002 6:59:45 AM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On Feb 13th, Ed Bush wrote:
>> I am referring to Benjamin Durham who is the
>> son of Henry Durham and Rachel Hughes, and
>> Sarah Durham who is the daughter of Benjamin
>> F. Durham and Mary Songo.
Thanks, Ed!
Unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to offer much help. I did not
even have a Lizzie / Elizabeth listed as a child of that Benjamin and
Sarah. In fact, the only child I have listed for them is William E.
Durham, b. Sep 1895. I obviously need to catch up in regard to info on
this branch of the Durhams.
Thanks again,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] Lisa Pierce Brown, dau. of Lorraine Johnson Pierce Gregg |
|Date: |2/18/2002 11:47:02 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Hello, all.
It is with great sadness that I pass along information of the passing of
Lisa Pierce Brown, daughter of Lorraine Johnson Pierce Gregg, one of the
earliest members of the Mitsawokett list, and former Tribal Council member
of the Nanticoke Lenni-Lenape. Lisa passed away this afternoon.
I know I join with all on this list in sending deepest sympathies to
Lorraine and family.
Sincerely,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Thanks for the warm welcome |
|Date: |2/18/2002 11:55:34 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: bensonjohnson@ ('bensonjohnson@') |
|CC: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
|File: |LauraClark.JPG (19612 bytes) DL Time (115200 bps): < 1 minute |
On February 13th, Chuck Benson wrote:
>> Thanks for the warm support from all the family and
>> friends in the group. My name is Charles Benson II my
>> parents are Charles and Gwen Benson. My great aunt who
>> has passed was Laura Clark and most of my first
>> cousins I have are all Mosley's on my father side and
>> also my great grandmother who was a Coker. I would
>> love to hear more about my extended family and the web
>> site is a great source for information I have found it
>> helpful so any more information will be greatly
>> appericated.
Hi, Chuck.
Welcome to the Mitsawokett list!! :-)
Sorry, I'm a little behind in catching up on my email.
Thanks for the info on your family. Is your father William Charles
"Billy" Benson, son of Charles Benson and Sarah Mosley Benson?
I was fortunate to meet your great-aunt Laura Mosley Mosley Clark, and had
a wonderful visit with her back in 1988. I was visiting Delaware at the
time, and a cousin took me to meet her. I will attach a photograph that I
took of her from that visit. In the photograph Laura's holding a large
portrait of her paternal grandmother Margaret (aka Marguerite) A. Carney
Mosley (your great-great-grandmother).
I am a great-great-grandson of Margaret's brother James Perry Carney.
We are also connected through the Coker family you mentioned. Your
great-grandmother was Angea Bell Coker Mosley, who was a sister of my
great-grandfather John Clayton Coker. They were children of Moses Coker
and Mary Ann Dean Coker. Moses, in turn, was the son of James Coker and
Eliza Jackson Coker, and Mary Ann was the daughter of Robert B. Dean Sr.
and Catherine Morgan Dean (later Carney).
The Mitsawokett website has photos of Mary Ann, Robert, and Catherine, if
you're interested and haven't seen them already. (I also have a close-up
of the photo of Margaret, which I need to scan and submit to the website).
Anyway, attached is the photo of your great-aunt Laura. (Do you know the
exact date of her passing? If so, I would appreciate knowing. Thanks).
Again, welcome to the list!
Sincerely,
John
P.S. I also corresponded with your great-aunt Mary E. Mosley Draine, back
in 1975 a year or so after I first began working on genealogy. I believe
she passed away in 1978....
John C. Carter
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Family History |
|Date: |2/18/2002 11:04:18 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter)Reply-to: Mitsawokett@To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Hello, all.
On or before February 5th, George Yip wrote [in an off-line message to Betty & Ray Terry, who forwarded the message to the list]:
Dear Mrs Terry I am trying to find out if I am a descendent of the Mitsawokett Indians. I have done some research and have come up with the following:
1. Great-great-great Grandfather John Mosley
2. Great-great-great Grandmother Sally Mosley (maiden name unknown)
3. Great-great-grandfather Charles Edward Mosley he married Adline Seeney on Nov 25. 1886 in Kent County Delaware they were from Kent county also.
4 . Charles and Adline had two daughters Edith who died at 18 months 30 June 1890, Bella was born May 7. 1893.
5. Bella Mosley was my Great grandmother and had a daughter ,and named her after her Mother, Adline and my grandfather who was Chinese had two children Arthur and Lou. Arthur was my father.
I have been trying to find my ethic background on my fathers mother side and its been a dead end. Do you know if Charles and Adline(Seeney) Mosley were Mitsawokett ? Or can you help me find out.
Thanks George J. Yip
Then, on February 5th, Betty & Ray wrote:
George, we come close to identifying Charles Edward Mosley who married Adline Seeney on Nov 25. 1886 in Kent County Delaware. We have a Charles H. Mosley marrying Adeline Seeney 20 Jul 1886, presumably in Kent Co. She was the daughter of James Seeney & Sarah Greenage. We are forwarding your message to the Mitsawokett group of researchers to see if any of them can come up with a better match.
Good luck!
Hello, all.
First of all, did anyone post any responses to this? I'm playing catch-up with my email digests, but I don't think I saw any replies.
Secondly, Betty & Ray, do you have George's email address? There was no email address posted in your message. I presume he is not a member of the list....
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Laura Mosley Mosley Clark |
|Date: |2/22/2002 12:25:46 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Thanks for the info.
But, since you used the word "match" (as opposed to "one day
discrepancy"), I'm wondering if one of the death dates below is a typo?
One says Dec 28 and the other says Dec 29.
Thanks,
John
>> According to Laura's daughter, Connie Mosley
>> Besselieu, Laura died 28 Dec 1992 at
>> Kent Convalescent Center, near Smyrna, Kent,
>> Delaware. There is an SSDI entry to match:
>>
>> Issued in Delaware -- LAURA CLARK
>> SSN 221-05-5347 Residence: 19901 Dover,
>> Kent, DE Born 29 Oct 1911 Died 29 Dec 1992
>> Issued: DE (Before 1951)
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: New Mitsawokett member |
|Date: |2/25/2002 9:43:01 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: eolin@ ('Olin, Eleanor "Peatie"') |
|CC: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
Hi, Peatie.
Welcome (back) to Mitsawokett!! (Weren't you a member before??)
(I am one of the moderators now, and recognized your email address in the
notification it automatically sent me, below). Ned Heite and I were
helping out while the Terrys were moving to Salt Lake City. They're back
online now, but we all try to help out.
There are now 203 members of the group!
Betty & Ray: Peatie (Eleanor) is the one who discovered Robert Carney,
Sr's will (from 1824), which seems to tie a lot of the early Carney lines
together. There are a few pieces still missing, however.
Anyway-- Welcome, Peatie!!
Take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Yahoo! Groups Notification [SMTP:notify@]
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 9:06 PM
To: Mitsawokett-owner@
Subject: New Mitsawokett member
Hello,
This is an automated email message to let you know that
eolin@ joined your Mitsawokett
group.
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: New Mitsawokett member |
|Date: |2/26/2002 7:01:14 AM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Wow, I never knew that "page" existed!
Thanks!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 12:20 AM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: New Mitsawokett member
In a message dated 2/25/2002 9:43:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
spiff@ writes:
>
> Hi, Peatie.
> Welcome (back) to Mitsawokett!! (Weren't you a member before??)
>
We don't have an e-mail file nor a listing on the Research Group page
for Eleanor unless she used a screen name which was not recognizable as Olin.
B&R
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] Re: The Bloomsbury Report |
|Date: |2/28/2002 10:01:33 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Hi, Ned.
Thanks for the link to the article.
Although the outcome seems discouraging, I agree with Dan that at least
this has raised the issue higher than it has ever been raised before.
Thanks very much for all your hard work and perseverance!!!!
John
"A single twig breaks, but the bundle of twigs is strong."
Tecumseh
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Margaret A. Carney Mosley |
|Date: |3/18/2002 10:38:58 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
I was scrolling around through the Mitsawokett photos tonight, and came
across the one I sent in the message below. However, it has a caption of
"Courtesy of Debbie Pierce," but this one had nothing to do with Debbie. I
guess you could credit this one to me, since I would have no idea who took
the old original. I did make the "original copy" that this photo was
printed from.
The one Debbie provided was the one of the several Durham children. (I
couldn't find it on the website, but I didn't search too thoroughly). (I
also could not find the one of Laura Mosley Mosley Clark, even though I
looked both in "M" and "C"). Wait! I just found it, below the other one
of her, in "M." However, I also took this photo of Laura. It has a caption
noting Debbie.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 10:42 PM
To: 'Terry, Betty & Ray'
Subject: Margaret A. Carney Mosley
Hi, again.
This one is a close-up of the photo that Laura was holding in the previous
email.
The photograph was labeled "Marguerite Carney" (imprinted within the small
white label at the bottom of the picture) but I've usually seen her name
referred to as Margaret.
Anyway, she was Margaret A. Carney Mosley (Laura Mosley Mosley Clark's
paternal grandmother).
I have Margaret's birth year as 1851, but I need to document this. I have
no death date for her. She was the wife of Joseph C. Mosley, b. ca. 1846
(son of Purnell Mosley, Sr.). She was the daughter of Robert Carney, Jr.
(13 Aug 1815 - 18 Jan 1889) and Phebe _______ (b. ca. 1812, d. 1880).
Thanks,
John
>
| |
| |
|Subj: |Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Welcome to Mitsawokett |
|Date: |3/9/2002 11:02:30 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: bettyandrayterry@ |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ |
|File: |PaulH.RidgwayJr.rtf (351547 bytes) DL Time (115200 bps): < 1 minute |
In a message dated 3/9/2002 9:44:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, spiff@ writes:
I show Vincent's wife to be Anna Mae Durham, but I do not have her
parents' names.
We attach the report we sent to Paul. We can recreate it with the notes, if you prefer.
Please tell us of errors you detect!
B&R
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:52:33 -0500
From: "John C. Carter"
Subject: RE: William Conselar
On Monday, March 18th, Chuck Counceller wrote:
>> John, I'm just checking to see if you got this message.
>> I know some of my mail was not received by others
>> so thought I would use this method to confirm.
>> Chuck Counceller
And, attached was the message, dated March 10th:
>> Hi John,
>> I hope all is well with you.
>> I was looking thru the recent message containing
>> the lineage for Paul Ridgway, Jr.
>> In it you show William as the father of Elijah Conselar.
>> Have I missed something ? Could you provide me
>> your source for this ?
>> Thanks John, for all you do for this list!
>> Chuck Counceller
Hi, Chuck.
No, I never received the original message dated the 10th. Not sure what
may have gone wrong....
Also, I was confused in reading the re-sent version, because I did not
recall sending any message with the reference you cited (William being the
father of Elijah Conselar), even though I did post a "welcome" message to
Paul Ridgway, Jr.
I had gone back through the recent Mitsawokett digests (I receive the
daily digest version of the messages), and at first could not find any
reference to the piece you listed, but then I noticed Betty & Ray Terry had
posted a message immediately following my welcome to Paul, and theirs
mentioned a report being attached. Since attachments do not come through
in the digest version of the messages, I went to the Yahoo website for
Mitsawokett and was able to access Betty & Ray's report there. I think I
found what you're referring to, on page 17 of their report.
And, while a lot of the early foundation for the Mitsawokett family
history reports was based on a GEDCOM I'd sent the Terrys back in the
early, pre-list days of our group, (and there's no intent here to take
credit, as this GEDCOM was made up from a lot of shared info from many of
the early fellow researchers), I just checked my genealogy database and do
not have William listed as Elijah's father. So, either I have since
removed the connection, or the Terrys inserted this connection based on
some other source.
Betty & Ray-- Can you clarify?
Chuck, I know you and I have discussed these early
Concilors/Councellors/etc before, and the difficulty in ironing out the
relationships with any kind of certainty. I, too, am eager for some type
of indication or substantiation that William was Elijah's father, as I had
hoped to one day submit another supplemental application to the SAR (Sons
of the American Revolution) based upon William having donated grain to the
cause of the Revolution (since I can already substantiate my line back as
far as Elijah).
I hope this helps clear things up, and perhaps Betty & Ray can provide
some insight into the reference in their report.
Please let me know if you have any other questions, and thank-you for the
nice words!
Take care,
John
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:53:26 -0500
From: "John C. Carter"
Subject: Sons and Daughters of the American Revolution
Hello, all.
Speaking of the SAR (in my preceding message) and the DAR, I thought I
might throw this offer out to any list-members who may be descended from
the following ancestors:
1. James Dean (d. Jun 1787).
2. John Durham, Sr. (b. bef. 1733, d. 13 May 1788).
3. William Concealler / Councilor / etc (d. aft. 1781) (See preceding
message)
I would be willing to provide copies of the documents stating that they
had donated grain "for the use of the continent" during the time of the
Revolution. This action is sufficient for membership in the SAR (Sons of
the American Revolution) or the DAR (Daughters of the American Revolution).
[Note: I just spoke to Debbie Pierce (formerly Unger), knowing that she
is also descended from a Revolutionary War veteran ancestor, and asked her
permission to offer to pass along copies pertaining to another qualifying
ancestor]:
4. Adam Pierce, Sr. (b. ca. 1755)
I am a member of the SAR through 5 documented ancestors so far (3 on my
mother's side, and #1 and #2 above from my father's side), and would be
willing to offer any advice or assistance if anyone is interested in
joining.
However, I should point out that all prospective members will still need
to get in touch with their local chapter and pursue their membership
through that group, working with the chapter's Registrar to ensure that all
necessary documentation is submitted properly. But if anyone needs copies
of the documents mentioned above, or any other death certificates, etc.
that I might have copies of, I would be more than happy to help.
(Depending on how many responses are received, however, I may need to
plead for extra time to follow through, as my schedule has been extremely
busy lately. I have a difficult time just keeping up with email as it
is....)
:-)
But I know the SAR and DAR are always seeking out prospective new members,
and we are currently living in a very patriotic moment in our country's
history.
Thanks,
John
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:54:20 -0500
From: "John C. Carter"
Subject: RE: Family Search
Hi, Richard.
Thanks for the message.
Sorry, the name of Martha Ann Dean Roe is not familiar to me.
However, I am cc'ing a research group of which there are many members with
Dean interests/background. However, these (our) Dean families seem to
center in and around the Kent County, DE area.
Attn. Mitsawokett Group: If anyone has any info pertaining to Richard's
query, below, please email him at...
rmacsorley@
...and cc the list, please.
(I do have one probable Dean line from Maryland, which may or may not
connect to the Kent County branch. There is a marriage record which
indicates a Barsheba Dean married a James McCarty or Carty in Dorchester
County, MD on 17 Aug 1792. But I know nothing further on this line).
Thanks!
John
John C. Carter
Paternal surnames: Bailey, Carney, Carter/Carty/McCarty, Coker, Colston,
Concealer/Counceller/Councilor/etc, Cott, Dean, Downes, Durham, Handsor,
Hardcastle, Hewes, Jackson, Joy, Morgan, Morris, Munce/Muncey/Muntz, Orem,
Ridgeway, Wyatt
-----Original Message-----
From: e-careers@ [SMTP:e-careers@]
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:17 AM
To: Family
Subject: Family Search
My GG Grandfather, James Alexander Roe, b.1827; d. 1903,
married Martha Ann Dean, b. 1830; d. 1871, on April 5, 1849, in
Talbot County Maryland. This was his first wife and they had 10
children.
Is there a connection to your Dean family?
Thanks,
Richard MacSorley
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:22:06 -0800
From: Harry Muncey
Subject: Re: RE: William Conselar
Hi John,
I suspect Thomas Counciler was the father of Elijah. No hard proof. Only
circumstantial evidence.
Harry
| |
| |
|Subj: |Another Clark article |
|Date: |3/16/2002 1:38:58 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: deborahpunger@ ('Pierce, Debbie') |
|CC: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn'), bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), ned@ ('Heite, Ned') |
Hi, Debbie (and all).
Here's another article about the Clarks' resignation.
John
A photograph of the Clarks is on this page:
And the article is on this page:
And below is the text pasted from the article, if you don't have time to
web-surf:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
Chiefs resign from Nanticoke Indian Association
By Jim Cresson
For the 120 years that the Nanticoke Indians of Indian River have been a
state-recognized tribe, there always have been disagreements between tribal
families and relatives within families.
Until recently, none of those disagreements have been severe enough to tear
the tribe apart and cause its chiefs to resign their leadership positions.
"Over the last few years, the Nanticoke Indian Association has become a
place of constant in-fighting pitting families against families without
considering what is best for the tribe as a whole," stated Chief Kenneth S.
"Red Deer" Clark Sr. after he resigned the position he has held for 31
years. "Many of the members have lost sight of what it means to be an
Indian, which has led to a continued deterioration of behavior and
integrity within the Nanticoke Indian Association."
After Chief Clark resigned during a monthly meeting attended by nearly 50
tribal members, his son, Assistant Chief Charles C. "Little Owl" Clark IV
resigned. Half the members in the meeting hall left with the chiefs,
expressing their honor and respect for the leaders whose family have
produced tribal chiefs for the past century and a half.
"I think the people did the chiefs wrong," said Cecile Coursey. "We had
just finished voting them back in office, and now a certain group in the
tribe has brought this about. It's bad and it's getting worse all the
time."
Chief Clark explained what led to his decision. "This has been brewing s
ince 1991. There's a certain element in the tribe that doesn't support our
leadership. Most of them are what I call two-day-a-year Indians. They only
come out at Powwow time and then we don't see them the rest of the year.
They want things changed. They want the Powwow to be a big commercial
event, and they don't want to volunteer to do any of the work."
Because of the mounting rebellious attitude among some tribal members, the
Clarks and many of their supporters boycotted the 2001 Powwow. The tribe
had to hire a storyteller and emcee to perform the two-day functions that
the chiefs had traditionally performed.
What will result from the chiefs' resignations? People close to the issue
can only speculate.
"I think the Nanticoke Indian Association will hang on for a few months and
then fade away," said Coursey. "Without the chiefs to lead the association,
I don't want to go back. Many of us feel that way. We don't like what's
happened."
Chief Clark was unsure what to expect from the schism within the tribe.
"When I walked out the door after I resigned, I did it for good. I have no
interest in starting a new group. I'm sort of waiting to see if the tribe
comes to its senses."
Little Owl Clark said he is sure there will be a new Nanticoke group to
emerge from the ashes of the old group. He said it will focus on
maintaining traditional Indian ways. "We'll have public events each year,
but they won't get so commercial as the Powwow," he said. "We will invite
the public to our Sundance in June; we will hold public sweats and other
Indian activities throughout the year."
And the Clarks both said they intend to remain active in issues that are
important to the Nanticokes, as well as issues regarding Native Americans
elsewhere.
"In one way, this is a huge weight off our shoulders," said Little Owl.
"It's like cutting a sprig off an old willow tree and planting it to grow
into a strong willow of its own. I have lots of hope."
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Margaret A. Carney Mosley |
|Date: |3/19/2002 6:54:50 AM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Thanks!!!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 11:45 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: Margaret A. Carney Mosley
OK, took care of that before head completely destroys keyboard!!
| |
| |
|Subj: |Laura Mosley Mosley Clark |
|Date: |3/9/2002 10:36:33 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
|File: |LauraClark.JPG (19612 bytes) DL Time (115200 bps): < 1 minute |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Here is a photo of Laura Mosley Mosley Clark. (Same one that was attached to the message I sent to Chuck Benson a couple of weeks ago).
I'm sure you already know the stats on her, but let me know if you have any quesitons.
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |Margaret A. Carney Mosley |
|Date: |3/9/2002 10:42:24 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
|File: |MargaretCarneyMosley.JPG (15226 bytes) DL Time (115200 bps): < 1 minute |
Hi, again.
This one is a close-up of the photo that Laura was holding in the previous
email.
The photograph was labeled "Marguerite Carney" (imprinted within the small
white label at the bottom of the picture) but I've usually seen her name
referred to as Margaret.
Anyway, she was Margaret A. Carney Mosley (Laura Mosley Mosley Clark's
paternal grandmother).
I have Margaret's birth year as 1851, but I need to document this. I have
no death date for her. She was the wife of Joseph C. Mosley, b. ca. 1846
(son of Purnell Mosley, Sr.). She was the daughter of Robert Carney, Jr.
(13 Aug 1815 - 18 Jan 1889) and Phebe _______ (b. ca. 1812, d. 1880).
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] On William being the father of Elijah Conselar |
|Date: |3/23/2002 11:56:44 PM Eastern Standard Time |
|From: bettyandrayterry@ |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ |
We were in error -- should have injected a SPECULATIVE in the database which would have been included in any generated report. Sorry to have caused the excitement and/or confusion!
>
>> But it is MayBelle Bordley who really needs your
>> prayers. She has just had another stroke. I was
>> quite surprised as I was just there yesterday. She
>> had recently been hospitalized for an infection and
>> fever. But she was home and did seem to be on the
>> mend.
>>
>> She will be admitted to South Jersey Hospital,
>> Bridgeton but as of yet, they didn't know what room.
>> I'll try to keep you good folks updated as much as I can.
>>
>> Also - Marikay, who is a receptionist at Mom's nursing
>> home (and a relative) needs prayers. She's battling
>> cancer. And also pray for Mom's roommate, Mary,
>> who is in the hospital.
>>
>> That ought to keep you all busy!
>> Happy Easter season -
>> Mollie Steward
Thanks very much, Jon, for passing this along.
Many of us on this list have known and/or corresponded with MayBelle
and/or Eulalie for many years. I'm sure I speak for everyone in wishing
them both a speedy recovery, and the best of wishes for getting well again
soon.
Thanks again for letting us know.
Sincerely,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Document provided to new member Paul Ridgway, Jr. |
|Date: |4/13/2002 |
|To: |Mitsawokett@ |
In a message dated 4/3/2002 9:12:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
6. You show Sylvester Ridgway as married first to Anna Burton and 2nd to
Emma _____ or Emma Ridgeway (hard to make out from the document). Anyway,
I had Sylvester's first spouse as Sarah "Sally" E. Mosley (prior to 1878
because their son Thomas Ridgway-Carney was born Mar 1878) (this is the
Sally who later went on to marry William Morris "Mike" Carney), and 2nd to
Annie ______, (from which there were at least two children, Mattie in 1879
and Mamie in 1890)
Well, Anna is pretty certain. There are a couple of variations in surname.
1. Death certificate: Delaware 1910 #723 -- Annie Ridgeway, Smyrna, Duck Creek Hd, Kent, Delaware. Female, black, married. DOD 27 Dec 1910, age 45 years. DOB 1865. NO POB. Father Herman Burton, b Del, mother Annie Burton, b Del. Housewife. Tuberculosis. Informant Sylvester Ridgeway, Smyrna, Del. Undertaker W. A. Faries & Son, Dover, Del. Buried Manship ME Cemetery, 29 Dec 1910.
2. Fork Branch inscriptions: Sylvester 1852-1934
Anna 1858-1910
3. (lost the source for this--) About Sylvester Jack/Ridgway he could have separated from a first wife and then remarried. He is listed as a son of Tillman and Sina Mosley Jack/Ridgway in the 1860 Census DE age four. In 1880 census records DE I have Sylvester b 1856 m Annie (no maiden name b 1861,and they had a dau Mattie b 1879.
4. Delaware death cert. 1960 #436. Brady Ridgeway, DOB 13 Dec 1881, Del; DOD 3 Feb 1960, Dover RFD, Kent, Del; male, colored, widowed, age 78 years. Father Sylvester Ridgeway, mother Ann Harmon. Informant Florence Watkins, Dover, Del. Occupation laborer, domestic. SSN none. Did not serve in armed forces. Osteolytic lesion of lt hip, malignant with probable metastisis and contributory problems. Buried Fork Branch Cemetery, Dover, Del 8 Feb 1960. Howard C. Stevenson, undertaker, Dover, Del. Reg. 8 Feb 1960.
5. We have no maiden surname for Emma --
Sylvester's Delaware death cert. #491, 1934. Registered No. 251, Kent County, West Dover Hundred, Dover. Male, colored, widdowed. Wife Emma Ridgway. DOB appears to be --- 24, 1860, age appears to be 72. Occupation laborer. POB Delaware. Father appears to be Timothy Ridgway, b Del. Mother don't know. DOD 12 Feb 1934. Chronic interstitial nephritis. Buried 15 Feb 1934 Fork Branch Cemetery, undertaker Calvin Clark, Dover, Del. Informant Cherry Ridgway, 12 Feb 1934. Filed Feb 15 or 16, 1934; stamped Mar 2, 1934, State Board of Heath.
6. We have Gertrude Ridgway Durham's death cert. but did not extract it and it is stored in Maryland. Now we'd like to see what it has to say about her parents.
7. Perhaps there was not a marriage prior to the birth of Thomas Ridgway-Carney, nor afterward. We do not have Sylvester as his father. What is your source?
What do you think about all this? Anna Burton-Harmon & Sarah "Sally" E. Mosley & Emma?
B&R
| |
| |
|Subj: |That sinking feeling.... |
|Date: |3/27/2002 10:50:01 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Sorry I haven't been responding lately.
I know there's at least one email from several days ago, awaiting my
reply....
I have been SOOOO busy-- Guests from out-of-state are arriving tomorrow,
and have been doing the "Spring Cleaning" thing! Whew!! Not to mention
trying to get caught up on bills, the checkbook, help with the final work
of getting a fixer-upper house ready for closing date (have I told you I'm
involved in this? A friend and I have been buying and re-selling
fixer-uppers--this is our 3rd one, and another is in the works...contract
to be signed in the next couple of days)
Anyway, and I've just bought a 1959 Nash Metropolitan--sight
unseen--(couldn't beat the price!), but it's over on the other coast of
Florida, and I have to SOMEHOW make plans to go over there and get it.....
Too much!!!
Also, still working on the essay questions of my application to go back to
school this summer!
sigh....
OK, will try to respond soon.
Take care,
Hope all is well with you,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Document provided to new member Paul Ridgway, Jr. |
|Date: |4/3/2002 9:12:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On March 9th, Betty & Ray Terry wrote:
>> We attach the report we sent to Paul.
>> We can recreate it with the notes, if you prefer.
>> Please tell us of errors you detect!
>> B&R
>> >
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Sorry I'm just now getting around to some of these messages. I am
WAAAAAAYYYYY behind in my correspondence!!!
Here are some comments based on your welcome message to Paul Ridgway, Jr.
1. The Liz who married Paul H. Ridgway, Sr. (Paul Jr's parents) was a
Pierce. You have her maiden name as blank.
[Under the family of John Henry Ridgway] --
2. You have Frederick Harrison Ridgway's birthdate as "about 1897," but
in your message in Mitsawokett digest #416 of 23 May 2000 (individual
message dated 22 May 2000) you listed it as "abt. Oct 1894."
3. You have Arthur Charles Sammons (Beulah Ridgway's husband) as born 03
Dec 1892, but in Mitsawokett digest #317 of 15 Jan 2000 (individual message
dated 14 Jan 2000), Preston Sammons gave his birthdate as May 1894.
4. I previously did not have Lillie M. Ridgway nor Robert B. Ridgway as
children of John Henry & Minnie Ridgeway. However, I had a son James
Ridgway listed (who married Bernice Sammons), which you did not. (Per
message from Rose Marie Ridgeway, dated 01 Aug 1998).
[Under the family of Tilghman Ridgway / Jack] --
5. Under Rebecca Ridgway / Jack, you show her first husband as Isaac
Sammons Jr. (I'd previously only had his last name of Sammons, no first
name) and her 2nd husband as "George D. or Jerry Clark" (I had Jerry
Clark). But then you list him as "son of Morris Harmon and Victoria Hood."
How is he a Clark if his parents are Harmon & Hood?
6. You show Sylvester Ridgway as married first to Anna Burton and 2nd to
Emma _____ or Emma Ridgeway (hard to make out from the document). Anyway,
I had Sylvester's first spouse as Sarah "Sally" E. Mosley (prior to 1878
because their son Thomas Ridgway-Carney was born Mar 1878) (this is the
Sally who later went on to marry William Morris "Mike" Carney), and 2nd to
Annie ______, (from which there were at least two children, Mattie in 1879
and Mamie in 1890)
[Under the family of Jeremiah Durham] --
7. You show Jeremiah as married twice, first to Margaret Ann Moore (on 11
Jun 1857), then to Margaretta Mosley. However, you show the two children
of Jeremiah and his FIRST wife as Retrissa (born 1874) and Maggie (born
1875). Why would these two children be born nearly 20 years after their
parents' marriage? Of the 5 remaining children (Clara, Rebecca, Mary,
Robert and Wilhemina/"Minnie"), I have birthdates for four of them (all but
Robert, whose birthdate I don't know) ranging in the years 1847-1871
(BEFORE the births of Retrissa and Maggie, who you attribute to the FIRST
wife).
[Under the family of Hewitt / Hugh Durham] --
8. For Hewitt & Angelica you have a 17th child, Elisha Durham. But I
show only 16 children, ending with Mabel. I believe you've got another
family's Elisha in here accidentally.
9. Also, you have Hewitt's / Hugh's wives reversed. The daughter Martha
Durham (b. 1855) was a daughter by his FIRST wife (the unknown one).
Angelica "Annie" Songo Durham was his 2ND wife.
OK, that's all for now. I only concentrated on the first 5 generations in
your document.
I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks!
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: William R. Ridgway |
|Date: |4/3/2002 9:12:18 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: Altumsplendis@ ('Altumsplendis@') |
|CC: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
Hi, Lynette.
My name is John Carter and your message below was shared with me by Betty
& Ray Terry. They asked for my assistance in deciphering the corrections
you listed.
I am very familiar with this branch of the Ridgways / Ridgeways, as my
great-great-grandfather Cornelius was a brother of the William Ridgway you
listed (the one who married Anna). (Thank-you, by the way, I never knew
previously that her maiden name was Johnson).**
Anyway, I had a few questions--
In your first sentence you said you are the oldest grandchild of William
and Anna. But, then later in the same paragraph you said "My grandfather
William Roland Ridgway was adopted by William P. 'Nuke' Ridgway and Viola
S. Ridgway Nee: Pierce."
According to my records, the Ridgway who married Viola Pierce was WALTER
Proctor Ridgeway, Jr (died Nov 1966).
I show this Walter Proctor Ridgeway, Jr. to be the son of Walter Proctor
Ridgeway, Sr. (b. 1867) and Rhoda E. Palmer (1875-1953). This Walter Sr.,
in turn, was the son of Alfred Wilbank Ridgeway (1838-1883) and Sarah
Ridgway (1847-1919) (they were 2nd cousins prior to their marriage).
Alfred, in turn, was a brother of both my gr-gr-grandfather Cornelius (b.
1842) and the William Ridgway (b. 1829) who married Anna.
** (on 2nd thought, I think we might be talking about two different
generations of William/Anna. The ones I mentioned in my first paragraph
seem to be of a much earlier generation than you perhaps meant).
Your message mentioned a Vanetta, Ethel and Dorothy, but I cannot find
them in my data. I'm not sure where Betty & Ray had them listed.
I am also unfamiliar with the other names in your message (with surnames
Johnson, Wright, Gould, Pierce, etc). (I am well-aware of those names
being related to our families, but just wasn't familiar with the specific
people you named).
I am very much interested in corresponding further, and hope to be able to
iron-out any discrepancies in our data.
Thank-you very much in advance for any clarification you can offer.
Sincerely,
John’
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Welcome to Mitsawokett (Tranise) |
|Date: |4/3/2002 9:52:37 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On March 21st, Tranise wrote (in response to the new member auto-reply on
behalf of the group moderators):
>> Thank you for your warm welcome.
>> My name is Tranise. I am interested in learning
>> more about the tribe from which I am desended.
>> I do not know a lot about my paternal great-
>> grandfather's history. I just know that his name
>> was Harvey, or Harry Durham, and he resided in
>> the Cheswold area of Delaware and was of Native
>> American descent. Any information that you could
>> give to me would be a tremendous blessing in
>> helping me learn more about my relatives.
Hi, Tranise.
I greatly apologize for the delay in response.
Do you know anything further on your great-grandfather? What was his
wife's name? Which of his children was your parent? These clues or any
others you might have will make it easier for us to help figure out which
Harvey or Harry you're referring to.
Thanks!
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Sons and Daughters of the American Revolution |
|Date: |4/3/2002 9:55:30 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On March 21st, Peatie Olin wrote:
>> John, I would like a copy when you have the time.
>> I am not home at this time but my family will save
>> it for me should it arrive before I return.
>> Eleanor , "Peatie"
Hi, Peatie.
Sorry for the late response.
I sent the copies out last week, and they have probably already arrived at the address by now.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Take care,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: About: Carney, Counsellor,Durham |
|Date: |4/4/2002 9:15:23 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On April 4th, Juanita Carney wrote:
>> My Name is Juanita Carney. I have been in contact
>> with Ed Bush and Dean Martin.
>> My Great Grandfather was Miller Carney, married to
>> Angelene (Songo). My great great grandfather was
>> Benjamin Songo, Son of James Songo.
>> I do not know who Miller's parents were. I do not
>> know who Jame's parents were.
>> I would like to know how we connect to the Native
>> Americans.
>> Can you help me?
Hi, Juanita.
Thanks very much for the message.
Actually, trying to "connect to the Native Americans" is not as simple as
it may sound. Although our families have Native American ancestry in their
background, pursuing the genealogy in our families does not provide a
specific ancestor or ancestors which we can point at and say with any
certainty, "Aha! he/she was a full-blooded Native American."
Many of the researchers in our group have been working on their
genealogies for 20 years or more (it's been about 28 years for me; I began
when I was 15), and still have yet to define any clear-cut "100% Indian"
ancestor. Unfortunately, it's not as simple as that.
However, many of our fellow researchers have been content with knowing
that the ancestry is indeed there, however close or far it may be, and many
have carried on with traditions and beliefs passed down in the families
enough to feel the connection, to feel the heritage, and to feel the
presence of our ancestors. In that respect, by joining this list you have
already connected to the Native Americans.
:-)
As to your great-grandparents Miller Carney and Angeline Songo, yes, I am
aware of them, and Ed Bush is one of the experts of that branch. If you've
already corresponded with him then you've undoubtedly found out as much as
is known at this point, as I don't think anyone knows more about that
branch than Ed. (I am not familiar with the Dean Martin you mentioned).
In other words, I don't believe any of us know the parents of the Miller
Carney you mentioned, nor James Songo. These are chapters of the history
still waiting to be written.
However, please feel free to participate! And any new information will
shared as it is uncovered.
Thanks again, and good luck!
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Document provided to new member Paul Ridgway, Jr. |
|Date: |4/13/2002 7:54:52 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: bettyandrayterry@ |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ |
In a message dated 4/3/2002 9:12:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
4. I previously did not have Lillie M. Ridgway nor Robert B. Ridgway as
children of John Henry & Minnie Ridgeway. However, I had a son James
Ridgway listed (who married Bernice Sammons), which you did not. (Per
message from Rose Marie Ridgeway, dated 01 Aug 1998).
Luther Sammons, Bernice's brother, told us that James Ridgeway's father was Greensbury Ridgeway, mother Sarah Virginia Durham.
We believe Robert B. and Lillie M. are children we found at the Archives, but our notes are missing.
There is soooo much hearsay--not enough of our researchers tackling the nuts and bolts of Archives forays AND taking and referring to notes taken thereat, including our own!!
B&R
| |
| |
|Subj: |Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Document provided to new member Paul Ridgway, Jr. |
|Date: |4/13/2002 8:32:17 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: bettyandrayterry@ |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ |
In a message dated 4/3/2002 9:12:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
6. You show Sylvester Ridgway as married first to Anna Burton and 2nd to
Emma _____ or Emma Ridgeway (hard to make out from the document). Anyway,
I had Sylvester's first spouse as Sarah "Sally" E. Mosley (prior to 1878
because their son Thomas Ridgway-Carney was born Mar 1878) (this is the
Sally who later went on to marry William Morris "Mike" Carney), and 2nd to
Annie ______, (from which there were at least two children, Mattie in 1879
and Mamie in 1890)
Well, Anna is pretty certain. There are a couple of variations in surname.
1. Death certificate: Delaware 1910 #723 -- Annie Ridgeway, Smyrna, Duck Creek Hd, Kent, Delaware. Female, black, married. DOD 27 Dec 1910, age 45 years. DOB 1865. NO POB. Father Herman Burton, b Del, mother Annie Burton, b Del. Housewife. Tuberculosis. Informant Sylvester Ridgeway, Smyrna, Del. Undertaker W. A. Faries & Son, Dover, Del. Buried Manship ME Cemetery, 29 Dec 1910.
2. Fork Branch inscriptions: Sylvester 1852-1934
Anna 1858-1910
3. (lost the source for this--) About Sylvester Jack/Ridgway he could have separated from a first wife and then remarried. He is listed as a son of Tillman and Sina Mosley Jack/Ridgway in the 1860 Census DE age four. In 1880 census records DE I have Sylvester b 1856 m Annie (no maiden name b 1861,and they had a dau Mattie b 1879.
4. Delaware death cert. 1960 #436. Brady Ridgeway, DOB 13 Dec 1881, Del; DOD 3 Feb 1960, Dover RFD, Kent, Del; male, colored, widowed, age 78 years. Father Sylvester Ridgeway, mother Ann Harmon. Informant Florence Watkins, Dover, Del. Occupation laborer, domestic. SSN none. Did not serve in armed forces. Osteolytic lesion of lt hip, malignant with probable metastisis and contributory problems. Buried Fork Branch Cemetery, Dover, Del 8 Feb 1960. Howard C. Stevenson, undertaker, Dover, Del. Reg. 8 Feb 1960.
5. We have no maiden surname for Emma --
Sylvester's Delaware death cert. #491, 1934. Registered No. 251, Kent County, West Dover Hundred, Dover. Male, colored, widdowed. Wife Emma Ridgway. DOB appears to be --- 24, 1860, age appears to be 72. Occupation laborer. POB Delaware. Father appears to be Timothy Ridgway, b Del. Mother don't know. DOD 12 Feb 1934. Chronic interstitial nephritis. Buried 15 Feb 1934 Fork Branch Cemetery, undertaker Calvin Clark, Dover, Del. Informant Cherry Ridgway, 12 Feb 1934. Filed Feb 15 or 16, 1934; stamped Mar 2, 1934, State Board of Heath.
6. We have Gertrude Ridgway Durham's death cert. but did not extract it and it is stored in Maryland. Now we'd like to see what it has to say about her parents.
7. Perhaps there was not a marriage prior to the birth of Thomas Ridgway-Carney, nor afterward. We do not have Sylvester as his father. What is your source?
What do you think about all this? Anna Burton-Harmon & Sarah "Sally" E. Mosley & Emma?
B&R
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Harvey Durham |
|Date: |4/8/2002 8:57:43 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
|CC: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine') |
On April 8th, Tranise wrote:
>> Hi John,
>> Unfortunately I haven't found out anything else
>> as yet. His daughter is my grandmother. I will
>> contact her and ask her questions in order to get
>> further information. She doesn't really know very
>> much either, as he was not in the household and
>> she never really had a lot of contact with him. I
>> should know something by the end of next week.
And, later on April 8th, Tranise followed with:
>> Hello again!!!
>> I now know that his name was Harvey Durham,
>> that he died when he was in his late 80s and that
>> his wife was named "Berdella". He also had a
>> sister whose married name was Etta Thorpe.
>> He died anywhere from 1985 to 1992.
And then, also on April 8th, Paul Johnson wrote:
>> Looks like your grandfather is Harvey Durham (1895-
>> 1983), son of Enoch Durham and Margaret Munce.
>> I have Harvey married to Birdella Seeney.
>> Paul Johnson
Hi, Tranise.
(Yes, in my original message I made a mistake and said "which of his
children was your parent?" when I'd meant to say "which of his children was
your GRANDparent?" Sorry about that).
It looks like Paul may have succeeded in identifying your
great-grandfather. However, my information differs slightly. I also show
a Harvey Durham as being a son of Enoch Durham and Margaret "Maggie" Muntz,
but I show this Harvey as married to Beulah Beckett, not Birdella Seeney.
Then, I searched my database to see if I had a Birdella Seeney, and I show
her as married to a Thomas Beckett.
Paul & anyone: Could these be the same woman?? Perhaps Birdella Seeney
(aka Beulah??) married Thomas Beckett first, and then Harvey Durham??
Unfortunately, this info has been in my database since "the early days"
and does not have a source identified.
I do show this Harvey as being born in Apr 1895, but I did not previously
have his death date. I also show him with a sister named JETTA, not Etta.
(I show Jetta as being born in Nov 1899, but have no death date nor a
spouse listed).
Lynn, can you clarify? (Or Betty & Ray? Joseph? Debbie?) This Harvey
was a brother of Lynn's grandmother, Mamie.
Thanks!
John
P.S. I checked both Joseph Romeo's Durham site, and the Durham info on
Mitsawokett, and it doesn't add any clarification on Harvey.... Lorraine,
and/or Rose, are you aware of this Harvey?
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] James Sammons, Civil War veteran |
|Date: |4/14/2002 12:33:55 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Hello.
Does anyone know who the James Sammons is who is buried at Immanuel Union
(Manship) Cemetery in Cheswold, identified as a Civil War veteran?
According to some information I found on a website, he was in Company C of
the 1st Cavalry regiment. In looking up the name James Sammons on the CWSS
(Civil War Soldiers & Sailors) system, I find four different possibilities
for a James Sammons connected with our folks.
Before trying to track him further, I thought I would try to find out some
more info on the one who's buried at Immanuel Union, to define him further.
In my genealogy database, I find at least two different James Sammons' who
were of an age to have served in the Civil War:
1. James Sammons, b. betw 1827-32, son of Benjamin Sammons & Sarah Miller.
2. James Sammons, b. 1835, son of John Sammons, Jr. & Elizabeth ______.
Any information that anyone might have on which one is buried at Immanuel
Union would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] FW: Broadcast of Black Creek site (NPR - National Public Radio) |
|Date: |4/21/2002 9:14:40 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Here's something from the Turtle Talk list that I thought might be of interest to some folks in our group.
JCC
-----Original Message-----
From: TurtleTalk1@ [SMTP:TurtleTalk1@]
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:35 PM
To: TurtleTalk1@
Subject: [TurtleTalk1] Digest Number 163
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:32:24 EDT
From: RosselloP@
Subject: Live broadcast of Black Creek site (National News Radio)
He` All My relations;
Below you will find a link to the NPR Radio Broadcasting Station.
Sorry this show aired live last night but I did not receive the E-mail until
today late. When you get to the link...wait for the show to finish buffering
and enjoy the broadcast concerning Black Creek!
Wanishi and Aquene......................Pat Rossello
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] FW: Re: Levi Morris of Delaware (A REPLY) |
|Date: |4/21/2002 9:17:32 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Follow-up to the preceding message:
JCC
-----Original Message-----
From: tomdg@worldnet. [SMTP:tomdg@worldnet.]
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 6:22 PM
To: DESUSSEX-L@
Subject: [DESUSSEX] Re: Levi Morris of Delaware
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
Message Board Post:
Found in Vital Records of Kent and Sussex Cos.,DE
St. George Protestant Episcopal church,Indian River
Jan 17,1747 Levi son of Nathanial Morris mulatto
| |
| |
|Subj: |FW: MayBelle Durham Bordley |
|Date: |4/22/2002 9:34:03 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: hmuncey@socal. ('Muncey, Harry'), deborahpunger@ ('Pierce, Debbie'), ses2@ ('Schroeder, Evelyn'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn'),|
|bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), ned@ ('Heite, Ned'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine') |
Hello, all.
For those of you who may not have heard already....
Sad news to report......
MayBelle Durham Bordley has passed away. Details on services are below.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: RWahoor@ [SMTP:RWahoor@]
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 9:17 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: (no subject)
John,
I received a telephone call by someone for Sandy Bordley. Maybelle Bordley
passed
there will be a viewing Friday evening at Padgett Funeral Home 7-9 p.m. Route
77, Bridgeton, N.J. Funeral will be Saturday at the St. Andrew's Church on
East Commerce St., at 2:00 p.m.
Thought you would be interested.
Sweetsie
| |
| |
|Subj: |Alda Ray Jackson Street |
|Date: |4/24/2002 7:47:35 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn'), bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine'), RWahoor@ ('Ridgeway, |
|Rose Marie'), ses2@ ('Schroeder, Evelyn') |
Hi, all.
Sadly, I just heard today that another member of the family has passed away.
I was fortunate to meet Aldie during my visit to Delaware in 1991, when some cousins took me by her place.
Below is her obituary. Her father, Clarence Jackson, was in turn the son of Nathaniel & Lucy Jackson.
Sincerely,
John
--------------------------------
(Have to scroll down once you're on the site, or here is the text):
Alda Ray Jackson Street, 88
BRIDGEVILLE - Alda Ray Jackson Street died of heart failure Friday, April 19, 2002, in Nanticoke Memorial Hospital, Seaford. She was 88.
Mrs. Street was born in Cannon, between Bridgeville and Seaford, daughter of the late Clarence and Sarah Ellen Perkins Jackson.
She was a homemaker.
She is survived by a son and daughter-in-law, Joseph D. and Donna Jackson of Bridgeville; and a step-grandson, Phillip Messick.
Services will be 2 p.m. Tuesday at Watson-Yates Funeral Home, Front and King streets, Seaford, where friends may call one hour earlier.
Burial will be in Middleford Cemetery, Seaford.
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Alda Ray Jackson Street / Etc. |
|Date: |4/25/2002 4:52:25 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Sorry, but I don't know the first name of Alda's husband, either. I may
be able to find out. If so, I will let you know.
I also think her son (mentioned in the obit--Joseph Jackson) was an
illegitimate son born prior to her marriage to the Street, but I'm not
positive. The fact that his surname is Jackson would seem to indicate
this....
BOY, I am SOOOOOOO far behind on all the correspondence pertaining to my
dad's side, which of course includes Mitsawokett. I was really, really
behind on several lines on my mom's side, and spent the last week or so
trying to get caught up on those, and have now fallen way behind on my
paternal lines. And, each evening something else just seems to get in the
way of getting caught up.
I know I owe several replies, and will try to respond very soon!!
Thanks for being patient....
Take care,
John
P.S. I have tentative plans to return to school in August.... Man, how
am I ever going to be able to handle that time-schedule, if I can't ever
get caught up NOW?????? :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:32 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: Alda Ray Jackson Street
Hi John,
We had seen Alda's obituary and had meant to ask -- what Street was she
married to?
-----------------------------
Betty and Ray Terry
-----------------------------
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: It is with great sadness... / MayBelle Durham Bordley |
|Date: |4/27/2002 4:47:37 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Hi, Jon & all.
Jon, I've already sent you a message off-list, but thought I would express
again my deepest sympathies to you and all other family members and friends
over the passing of MayBelle.
I was fortunate to meet MayBelle and her daughter Sandy in person during
one of my trips to New Jersey.
(Sandy: I'm not sure how often you get the opportunity to monitor these
emails, but I'm sending you a note through regular "snail mail").
In many ways MayBelle was one of the early founders of this list, as she
was instrumental in the linking-up of many of us back in the 1980's and
1990's.
I began corresponding with MayBelle back in late 1988 / early 1989.
She--along with Rose Ridgeway & Lorraine Gregg from the Indian
Center--were very generous and helpful with a lot of the early research
done on our families, and were responsible for my meeting cousin / fellow
researcher Harry Muncey during the time I still lived in southern
California. Harry was in turn responsible for my meeting cousin /
researcher Debbie Pierce, once I'd moved here to Florida. And it was
Debbie, Lynn Jackson (who'd also corresponded with MayBelle) and myself,
sharing early e-mail messages back in 1996 with Ned Heite (himself another
MayBelle correspondent!), which laid the roots for this list, which now has
over 200 members. Our entire research group owes a great debt to MayBelle
and her knowledge and generosity.
I know many of us will mourn her passing.
Sincerely,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Sylvester Ridgway / Etc. |
|Date: |4/27/2002 11:53:00 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
OK, I just found the notes from the conversation with Anna Ridgeway
Wright.
They are from March, 1988.
And guess what? She stated there were three wives, but the only one that
she knew the name of was: Anna HARMON! Grrrr!!!! Why do some of them
think she was a Harmon, when her own husband named her as a Burton at the
time of her death?? (Perhaps she was married to a Harmon prior to marrying
Sylvester??)
Also, these are the 11 children Anna Wright named for Sylvester:
Sally, Jenny, Corrine, Mamie, Gertrude, Mattie, Tilghman/Tilman, Clement,
Roland, Elmer, and Brady. No comments as to which of the 3 wives was the
mother of each.
However, as I mentioned before, there were flaws in her data, as she
stated that Sylvester was a brother of Cornelius Ridgeway, which is
incorrect. (They were cousins by an as-yet-undetermined connection*, but
not brothers)
*(based on the statement in Alfred Ridgeway's pension records that he and
his wife Sarah Ridgway were "second cousins" prior to their marriage.
Alfred was Cornelius' brother, and Sarah was Sylvester's sister).
There were other flaws in Anna Wright's data as well.
Anyway, that's all for tonight.
Going to sleep now--it's almost 2:00am!!!
Good night,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 1:17 AM
To: 'BettyandRayTerry@'
Subject: RE: "the unknown quote" / Sylvester Ridgway / Etc.
Hi, Ray & Betty.
It took me a while to decipher this one, but here goes:
The quote you ascribed to me in your message attached below was actually
written by Lorraine, not me. You found it in my message to Lorraine dated
22 Sep 1998, but I was replying to her message earlier on that date, and
the quote was in her message. I'll try to re-create the conversation....
On April 12, 1998, Lorraine wrote:
>> Then in 1880 there is a census record of Thomas and Mahala
>> Ridgway Johnson, all of their children listed and at the end
>> there is a Sarah Jack 19, and Thomas E Jack age 1, in their
>> household. We were told that Sarah Mosley m Sylvester
>> Ridgway/Jack and later m Morris (Mike) Carney on the
>> census her oldest child is Thomas E , then Fraizer and
>> Elizabeth Carney (the ages match). Also on one of Ed and
>> Louise Heite reports they have listed Thomas E Ridgway
>> as Sally's Carney's son.------I just have a feeling that this is
>> what we're looking for but no proof!!!!!!
Then, on September 20, 1998 (yes, it took me that long to reply! shame on
me!), I wrote:
(and keep in mind I was confused here--for one thing, I didn't realize at
the time that "Mike" Carney's full name was William Morris "Mike" Carney):
>> I thought the Carney who was called "Mike" was
>> another William Carney, not Morris Carney. William
>> "Mike" Carney married Sarah/Sally Mosely, and they
>> had children Elizabeth Carney (who m. Carlos Morris)
>> and Frazier Carney (who m. 1st Emma Mosely & 2nd
>> Nora Jackson). "Mike" and Sally are the couple whose
>> home is now on display at the DE Agricultural Museum.
>> I knew that this Sally had a son (out-of-wedlock, perhaps?
>> or via a 1st husband who died young?) before she
>> married Mike, and this son ended up being called
>> Thomas Carney, even though he wasn't a Carney. This
>> is interesting if he is the Thomas Ridgway you mention.
>> But if I'm not mistaken, Sylvester Ridgway was around
>> a while (i.e. didn't die young), so if this is the same
>> Thomas, and if Sylvester was his father, then he must
>> have been an out-of-wedlock child.
Then, on September 22nd, 1998, Lorraine wrote:
>> I think Ned answered that one about Wm Morris (Mike)
>> Carney today.
>> About Sylvester Jack/Ridgway he could have separated
>> from a first wife and then remarried. He is listed as a
>> son of Tillman and Sina Mosley Jack/Ridgway in the
>> 1860 Census DE age four. In 1880 census records
>> De I have Sylvester b 1856 m Annie ( no maiden name
>> b 1861, and they had a dau Mattie b1879.
So, she was enlightening my poor brain to the somehow overlooked simple
fact Sylvester could have easily fathered Thomas Ridgway, then
divorced/separated and Sally went on to marry Mike. Thomas was then known
by his step-father Mike's surname, Carney.
Whew!
HOWEVER, another interesting tidbit that this journey uncovered is THIS
piece:
Written in my follow-up reply to Lorraine on September 22, 1998:
>> Sylvester's granddaughter told me that Sylvester was
>> married three times, and had either 11 children by a
>> combination of the three wives, or with one of the three
>> wives.
I had forgotten this!!!
This would clearly explain the discrepancy between the two wives you
listed (Anna & Emma) and the two wives I listed (Sally & Anna)--there were
three!
m1. ca. 1877, Sarah "Sally" E. Mosley (1861-1949)
one child: Thomas
m2. ca. 1878, Anna "Annie" Burton (1858/65-1910)
m3. (aft. 1910?), Emma _______
The granddaughter (of Sylvester) who told me this was Anna Ridgeway
Wright, daughter of Brady. I need to find my notes from my conversation
with her. I spoke with her on the phone in the late 1980's....
I just found her obituary (she passed 21 Sep 1989), but I can't seem to
find the notes. I can picture them in my mind, and remember now that she
had given me several names, but it was all very confusing, and this is
probably why I never entered all of it into my database. I remember that
at the time of our conversation she thought Sylvester was a brother of my
gr-gr-grandfather Cornelius Ridgeway, which later proved incorrect.
Well, hopefully that helps to straighten out some of that mess, but--
OK, I'm confused on this part--
If Anna (Burton/Harmon) & Sylvester were married, and Anna died first
(1910), before Sylvester (1934), WHY is her tombstone in Fork Branch
Cemetery if her death certificate says she was buried in Manship??? I have
seen cases where one spouse died, and the surviving spouse had both their
names put on the stone, not figuring they might re-marry, and were
subsequently buried somewhere else with a 2nd spouse (and thus leaving
their name on an empty plot in the 1st spouse's cemetery). But that
wouldn't apply in this case since Anna died first!
(And, we won't even mention the discrepancy of Anna's birth year being
1865 on her death certificate and 1858 on her tombstone! I swear these
people did these things just to make us go psycho!)
Your message also mentioned:
>> We have Gertrude Ridgway Durham's death cert.
>> but did not extract it and it is stored in Maryland.
>> Now we'd like to see what it has to say about her
>> parents
Who is this Gertrude? Is this the wife of Isaiah "Zed" Return Durham?
She is one of two Gertrude Ridg(e)ways in my database, and the only one
married to a Durham. I previously had no parents listed for her. Are you
saying she's the daughter of Sylvester?
I need to get a list of all of Sylvester's children. (I need to find my
notes from my conversation with Anna Wright!!) The only ones I have in my
database are the afore-mentioned Thomas (by Sally) and Mattie and Mamie (by
Anna).
OK, that's all on this one!
Take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:08 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Document provided to new member Paul
Ridgway, Jr.
Well, the source of the unknown quote sent yesterday is YOU. We found the
full attribution --
From: John C. Carter[SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: September 22, 1998
To: Gregg, Lorraine (LFREIDA15@)
About Sylvester Jack/Ridgway: he could have separated from a first wife
and
then remarried. He is listed as a son of Tillman and Sina Mosley
Jack/Ridgway in the 1860 Census DE age four. In 1880 census records DE
I
have Sylvester b 1856 m Annie (no maiden name b 1861, and they had a dau
Mattie b 1879).
Best regards,
B&R
-----Original Message-----
From: Mitsawokett@ [SMTP:Mitsawokett@]
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:39 PM
To: Mitsawokett@
Subject: [Mitsawokett] Digest Number 950
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 22:31:00 EDT
From: bettyandrayterry@
Subject: Re: RE: Document provided to new member Paul Ridgway, Jr.
In a message dated 4/3/2002 9:12:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
spiff@ writes:
> 6. You show Sylvester Ridgway as married first to Anna Burton and
2nd
> to
> Emma _____ or Emma Ridgeway (hard to make out from the document).
Anyway,
> I had Sylvester's first spouse as Sarah "Sally" E. Mosley (prior to 1878
> because their son Thomas Ridgway-Carney was born Mar 1878) (this is the
> Sally who later went on to marry William Morris "Mike" Carney), and 2nd
to
> Annie ______, (from which there were at least two children, Mattie in
1879
> and Mamie in 1890)
>
Well, Anna is pretty certain. There are a couple of variations in surname.
1. Death certificate: Delaware 1910 #723 -- Annie Ridgeway, Smyrna,
Duck Creek Hd, Kent, Delaware. Female, black, married. DOD 27 Dec 1910,
age
45 years. DOB 1865. NO POB. Father Herman Burton, b Del, mother Annie
Burton, b Del. Housewife. Tuberculosis. Informant Sylvester Ridgeway,
Smyrna, Del. Undertaker W. A. Faries & Son, Dover, Del. Buried Manship ME
Cemetery, 29 Dec 1910.
2. Fork Branch inscriptions: Sylvester 1852-1934
Anna 1858-1910
3. (lost the source for this--) About Sylvester Jack/Ridgway he
could have separated from a first wife and then remarried. He is listed as
a
son of Tillman and Sina Mosley Jack/Ridgway in the 1860 Census DE age four.
In 1880 census records DE I have Sylvester b 1856 m Annie (no maiden name b
1861,and they had a dau Mattie b 1879.
4. Delaware death cert. 1960 #436. Brady Ridgeway, DOB 13 Dec
1881,
Del; DOD 3 Feb 1960, Dover RFD, Kent, Del; male, colored, widowed, age 78
years. Father Sylvester Ridgeway, mother Ann Harmon. Informant Florence
Watkins, Dover, Del. Occupation laborer, domestic. SSN none. Did not
serve
in armed forces. Osteolytic lesion of lt hip, malignant with probable
metastisis and contributory problems. Buried Fork Branch Cemetery, Dover,
Del 8 Feb 1960. Howard C. Stevenson, undertaker, Dover, Del. Reg. 8 Feb
1960.
5. We have no maiden surname for Emma --
Sylvester's Delaware death cert. #491, 1934. Registered No. 251, Kent
County, West Dover Hundred, Dover. Male, colored, widdowed. Wife Emma
Ridgway. DOB appears to be --- 24, 1860, age appears to be 72. Occupation
laborer. POB Delaware. Father appears to be Timothy Ridgway, b Del.
Mother
don't know. DOD 12 Feb 1934. Chronic interstitial nephritis. Buried 15
Feb
1934 Fork Branch Cemetery, undertaker Calvin Clark, Dover, Del. Informant
Cherry Ridgway, 12 Feb 1934. Filed Feb 15 or 16, 1934; stamped Mar 2,
1934,
State Board of Heath.
6. We have Gertrude Ridgway Durham's death cert. but did not extract
it
and it is stored in Maryland. Now we'd like to see what it has to say
about
her parents.
7. Perhaps there was not a marriage prior to the birth of Thomas
Ridgway-Carney, nor afterward. We do not have Sylvester as his father.
What
is your source?
What do you think about all this? Anna Burton-Harmon & Sarah "Sally" E.
Mosley & Emma?
B&R
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Sammons Stuff |
|Date: |4/28/2002 9:03:04 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Thanks,
and I see in my database that she was first married to a _______ Carter,
then to Howard Clifton Wilson, Jr, and thirdly to Luther A. "Jake" Sammons,
right?
(I got this from a message from you, dated 28 Aug 1999).
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 10:49 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: Sammons Stuff
In a message dated 4/28/2002 2:35:42 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
spiff@ writes:
> 9 i Luther A. "Jake"3 SAMMONS Sr.,
> >> born 5 Feb 1930. He married
> >> (1) Bertha Caroline MORRIS;
> >> (2) Josephine Louisa COKE,
> >> ex-wife of Howard C. Wilson Jr.;
> >> (3) Anna Beatrice JOHNSON.
>
> Should Josephine's last name be COKER instead of COKE? What is the
> source
> for her name?
>
She is not a Coker. She is from Missouri, not related to our families.
Source: marriage cert of Josephine and Howard C. Wilson Jr.
-----------------------------
Betty and Ray Terry
-----------------------------
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: David P. Street & Matilda A. Johnson |
|Date: |4/28/2002 9:23:41 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: LFREIDA15@ ('LFREIDA15@') |
|CC: BettyandRayTerry@ (BettyandRayTerry@) |
Hi, Lorraine.
You wrote:
>> Howard D Street was the son of David P Street
>> b March 10, 1822 and d April 5, 1911, and Matilida
>> Johnson. No parents or dates listed for this Matilida
>> Johnson.
I thought I would give you this info:
I show this Matilda as born ca. 1842
I got this from:
Message to Mitsawokett list, dated 05 Jan 2000, message from Sterling
Street
And I show that she married David P. Street on 11 Jul 1861 in Sussex Co,
DE.
This is from:
Message to Mitsawokett list, dated 22 Sep 2000, message from Robert Jackson
Hope this helps!
Thanks again,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |Re: David P. Street & Matilda A. Johnson |
|Date: |4/30/2002 7:20:43 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: |BettyandRayTerry |
|To: |spiff@, LFREIDA 15 |
In a message dated 4/28/2002 9:23:41 PM Mountain Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
I show this Matilda as born ca. 1842. I got this from:
Message to Mitsawokett list, dated 05 Jan 2000, message from Sterling
Street
Some info about Matilda --
1. Tombstones of Sussex County, vol I, Downstate Delaware Genealogical Society, 1999: Indian Mission Cemetery, near Harbeson, DE:
Matilda A. Street b 9/30/1840 same stone with David P. Street
David P. Street same stone with Matilda A. b 03/10/1822, d 04/05/1911
2. Sterling tells who Matilda's parents are --
From: "John C. Carter" > Susie Carey was the SISTER of Henrietta Victoria Carey.
>> Other siblings included Wilmore Carey, Charles Howard
>> Carey, Grace Carey, Lulu R. Carey (called LULA), and
>> one other sister that the whole family has refered to as
>> Bertha Carey
Hi, Chris.
A belated WELCOME to the group! and thanks for all the info you sent!
I had a couple of questions/comments:
1. Do you know who Grace Carey married? I have a Grace Carey in my data
as the wife of Oscar Perkins Sammons (1902-1961), but am not sure whether
or not this would be the same Grace....
2. You mentioned:
>> My records show Henrietta Victoria Carey with
>> parents of Charles Edward Carey b. 1874,
>> d. April 17, 1948
>> and Della Mae Ridgway b. 1878, d. 1948
I see that Betty & Ray Terry responded to your inquiry concerning the
burial place for Charles & Della, but I noticed a date discrepancy with
your info as well (as compared to mine). I have Charles Edward's dates as
b. 26 Feb 1874 and d. 04 Jul 1946 (you had 17 April 1948, but I show this
as DELLA MAE'S death date, not Charles Edward's): Della Mae Ridgway Carey,
b. 05 May 1878, d. 17 Apr 1948.
Did you have your death dates juxtaposed? Or is my info incorrect?
3. You mentioned:
>> Susie and Horace Enos Clark (he was refered to as Enos)
>> had 6 children.
>> the children are:
>> Paulene Sarah Clark b. July 31, 1929
>> Doris Geneva Clark b. December 26, 1930
>> Horace Russell Clark b. August 18, 1933 deceased, year unknown
>> Hattie Marie Clark b. April 30, 1935
>> Irma Lee Clark b. December 16, 1936
You stated there were 6 children, but you only listed 5. Is there another
child?
4. You mentioned:
>> Children of Ronald Agustus and Hattie Marie are:
>> April Gaselle Durham b. June 3, 1959
>> Ronald Agustus Durham b. November 28, 1959
>> David Elmer Durham b. January 5, 1961
However, I think the birth-year for either April or Ronald Jr must be
wrong--there is only a six-months difference between their ages--too soon
for another child to be born.
OK, that's all.
Again, thank-you very much for sharing the info.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Norwood - Miller Families (DE to MI) |
|Date: |5/3/2002 10:38:36 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On April 19th, TheoLouise wrote:
>> I may have said this before but it may be worth repeating.
>> I have the document of marriage of Alexander Mosley and
>> his bride Rebecca Ann Miller dated Aug 1862. He is
>> listed as 26years old of Milford Neck, Sussex County.
>> His parents were Purnell & Rebecca Mosley.
>> His bride, Rebecca Ann Miller, is listed as 22years old
>> from Smyrna-Kenton, Kent County. Her parents were
>> Isachar and Elizabeth Miller. The ceremony was
>> performed by I Dickerson of M.E. Church in Frederica, DE.
Thanks, TheoLouise!
However, I'm curious about the date you referenced for the marriage.
Back on 25 Jan 2000, Jean Foster (another member of this list), sent the
following to Betty & Ray Terry and I:
>> I have a copy of a record of marriage between Alexander
>> Mosley and Rebecca Ann Miller dated Jan 9th, 1862 He
>> was 26 years old and she was 22. His father and mother
>> were shown as Purnell and Rebecca Mosley. Her father
>> and mother were shown as Isachar(?) and Eliza Miller
>> Source- Photostat of Marriage Record Book 1-B-Kent Co
I wonder why the difference between the Jan 9th and the Aug marriage
dates...? Could one be the bond for the marriage and the other one be the
actual marriage??
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: William R. Ridgway / Etc. |
|Date: |5/4/2002 10:54:43 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: Altumsplendis@ (Altumsplendis@), bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine') |
Hi, all.
In following up on the message below (from Betty & Ray, containing info &
document from Lorraine), I had a few questions/comments--
1. Regarding the following:
>> >From Lorraine Johnson-Gregg, March 2002:
>>
>> FIRST GENERATION
>> < snip >
>> Artalissa Wright was born on Jan 22 1903 in Canton, NJ.
>> No children by second m to James Mulford She was buried
>> on Jun 28 1975 in Gouldtown Memorial Park, Gouldtown,
>> Cumberland, New Jersey. She died on Jun 25 1976 in
>> CUMBERLAND COUNTY, NJ
One of these years (death / burial) must be wrong, since she couldn't have
been buried a year before she passed away.
:-)
Should it be 1975 or 1976?
2. Regarding this part:
>> He was married to Estella Janie Licanchuck
>> (daughter of Stephan Likanchuk and
>> Mary Matusevna). No children by this marriage
There are two different spellings of Licanchuck / Likanchuk here. Which
one is correct?
3. In the attached document from Lorraine, it had:
>> Walter E Nuke Ridgway was born in 1896 in DE.
>> He died on Nov 10 1966 in NJ.
I have this Walter as Walter Proctor Ridgway, Jr., not Walter E.
This is not the first time there has been confusion with the middle names
in this branch. I had a discussion with G. Dolly Ridgeway Pritchett
Wright-Morris in early 2001 about the father, Walter Sr's middle name as
well. She claimed that her mom Alberta (daughter of Walter Sr.)
strenuously denied that his middle name was Proctor, and insisted that it
was Allen/Alan. A quote from that discussion was that Dolly's mother (who
was still living at the time--Feb 2001--at age 99--stated, "I should know
my own father's name." In response I provided Dolly with two sources that
pointed at his middle name being Proctor: his father Alfred Ridgeway's
Civil War pension records (which listed him as Walter P.) and the 1880
census (which listed him as Walter Proctor). I asked her if there was any
documentation showing him as having the middle name Allen/Alan, but
received no response to this question.
Now, here we have his son Walter Jr. listed as Walter E., whereas if he
really was a "Jr" he would be Walter Proctor Jr.
By the way, one of the messages from Dolly also notes that the father,
Walter Sr's nickname was "Dewey."
This is enough to make someone go bonkers!
:-)
4. Regarding this (in Lorraine's document):
>> Anna May Pierce was born in 1933 in NJ.
>> She died in Sep 1993 in NJ.
>> She was married to unknown Hymer.
>> Walter Pierce Jr was born in 1927 in NJ.
>> He died on Sep 14 1989 in NJ.
>> He was married to Alberta Hymer
Was the "unknown Hymer" to whom Anna May was married related to the
Alberta Hymer that her brother Walter Jr. married? Could the two Hymers
have been brother and sister?
5. Lorraine, it looks like you have a glitch in the genealogy program
that created your document, because it has Walter Jr. listed as marrying
the same wife twice, and has the daughter Emma under each. (Just an FYI,
in case you need to fix something in your database):
>> Walter Pierce Jr was born in 1927 in NJ. He died on
>> Sep 14 1989 in NJ.
>> He was married to Alberta Hymer. Walter Pierce Jr and
>> Alberta Hymer had the following children:
>> 12 i. Walter G Pierce III.
>> +13 ii. Emma Pierce.
>> +14 iii. Virginia Pierce.
>> +15 iv. Verna Pierce.
>> +16 v. Rhoda Pierce.
>> He was married to ALBERTA V. HYMER on May 30 1947.
>> ALBERTA V. HYMER was born on Oct 29 1928 in Greenwich,
>> N.J.. Walter Pierce Jr and ALBERTA V. HYMER had the
>> following children:
>> +13 i. Emma Pierce.
6. Lorraine, toward the end of the document (after Marie "Sissy" Pierce
and Darlington Henry's children), you have the following:
>> Leon Harmon (son of Doris Harmon) was born in 1951 in
>> Mannington Twp, Salem, N.J.. He died on Oct 12 1997 in
>> South Jersey Hospital System, Bridgeton Division, Bridgeton,
>> NJ. He was buried in Evergreen Cemetery, Salem, NJ.
However, I don't see any reference earlier in the document to either a
Leon Harmon or a Doris Harmon. Who are these people and how do they fit-in
with this branch?
7. Regarding this part:
>> Denise Morris was born on Oct 21 1964 in Dover Delaware.
>> She was married to Rannell Lockley.
>> She was married to Clemett Clemy Durham (son of
>> Carl Durham and Rosella Pricilla Thompson).
>> Clemett Clemy Durham was born on Mar 9 1964 in Bridgeton, NJ.
Who is Carl Durham the son of? I didn't have him in my database.
8. Regarding this part:
>> Denise Morris and Clemett Clemy Durham had the
>> following children:
>> 30 i. Clem Martin Durham.
>> 31 ii. Nicholas Durham.
>> 32 iii. Martinia Morris was born on
>> Aug 16 1982 in Bridgeton Hospital.
Why is the 3rd child, Martinia, listed as a Morris instead of a Durham?
Whew!
Ok, all done with this one.
Sorry for all the questions, but I thought I would try to clear all this
up, while I had a chance to work on it.
Thanks very much again for all your help!!!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:34 AM
To: spiff@; Altumsplendis@
Subject: Re: William R. Ridgway
In a message dated 4/17/2002 8:56:01 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
spiff@ writes:
>From Lynette:
> My grandmother's
> father was Elwood "Fritz" Johnson. Who was a brother to Lorraine's
father.
> Elwood married Arltalissa (Arlissa) Wright they had three children
Rebecca,
> Melvin(Bucky), and Anna (my grandmother). They later divorced and
Arlissa
> married Jim Mulford and Elwood married a lady by the name of Janie....
>From Lorraine Johnson-Gregg, March 2002:
FIRST GENERATION
1. Elwood "Fritz" Johnson was born on Apr 28 1900 in DE. He died on Mar 9
1968 in Seabreeze Rd, Fairfield TWP, Cumberland County, NJ. He was buried
on
Mar 13 1968 in Siloam Cemetery, Vineland NJ. He had Social Security Number
211-22-4611.
He was married to Artalissa Wright (daughter of Edward Wright and Barbara
Pierce). Artalissa Wright was born on Jan 22 1903 in Canton, NJ. No
children by second m to James Mulford She was buried on Jun 28 1976 in
Gouldtown Memorial Park, Gouldtown, Cumberland, New Jersey. She died on
Jun
25 1976 in CUMBERLAND COUNTY, NJ. Elwood "Fritz" Johnson and Artalissa
Wright had the following children:
2 i. Elwood Johnson Jr was buried in Gouldtown Cem.
+3 ii. Rebecca Johnson.
+4 iii. Melvin Johnson.
+5 iv. Anna Johnson.
He was married to Estella Janie Licanchuck (daughter of Stephan Likanchuk
and
Mary Matusevna). No children by this marriage....
---------------
See the attachment for further info about Reba's family.
---------------
Betty and Ray Terry
-------------------------
>
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: William R. Ridgway / Etc. |
|Date: |5/6/2002 6:18:05 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
|CC: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
To answer your question RE:
>> Anna May Pierce was born in 1933 in NJ.
>> She died in Sep 1993 in NJ.
>> She was married to unknown Hymer.
There are two different spellings of Licanchuck / Likanchuk here.
Which
> one is correct?
>
Do the Polish even know? Not a clue.
> A quote from that discussion was that Dolly's mother (who
> was still living at the time--Feb 2001--at age 99--stated, "I should know
> my own father's name."
Can't answer the question, but a note--her kids did not know recently that
Wilson Davis' aunt Charlotte Augusta "Lottie" Durham was born Charlotte and
not Lottie.
Many children just are ignorant about much of their parents' lives and
personal data.
> Now, here we have his son Walter Jr. listed as Walter E., whereas if he
> really was a "Jr" he would be Walter Proctor Jr.
>
We have seen instances where a son with same first name is called Junior
tho
the middle name is different. Just a way to avoid confusing references
within the family.
We agree with "Proctor." Have not seen "E." before. But we should have
better documentation, such as a record created near his birth.
> Anna May Pierce was born in 1933 in NJ.
> >> She died in Sep 1993 in NJ.
> >> She was married to unknown Hymer.
>
Which Anna May is this? Please tell us her parents. And also the parents
of
Walter Jr. The same?
>
> However, I don't see any reference earlier in the document to either
a
> Leon Harmon or a Doris Harmon. Who are these people and how do they
fit-in
> with this branch?
>
Ditto!
> Who is Carl Durham the son of?
Ditto!
> Why is the 3rd child, Martinia, listed as a Morris instead of a Durham?
>
>
> Whew!
>
Ditto! Ditto!
-----------------------------
Betty and Ray Terry
-----------------------------
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Becketts, Durhams, Munces, Carters, etc. |
|Date: |5/6/2002 6:50:36 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@'), wolftracks1@ (wolftracks1@), RWahoor@ (RWahoor@), |
|LFREIDA15@ (LFREIDA15@) |
Hi, Betty & Ray.
The bmp image you sent came out HUGE on my pc! I could only view one
little snippet of it at a time, and had to keep navigating all over it.
Worked out OK, though.
Anyway, what is the source of the 1867 b.date for Susan Munce/Muntz? I
had her as either:
born 1855 (per Mitsawokett digest #238, dated 18 Oct 1999, message from
Lorraine Johnson Gregg)
OR
born 1857 (per Info supplied by Preston L. Sammons III, e-mail dated 03 Mar
1998.
Also: E-mail from Rose Marie Munson Ridgeway, dated 26 Mar 1998).
Likewise, for Susan's father Benjamin Sammons, I had similar
discrepancies:
born Feb 1835 (per Mitsawokett digest #429, dated 06 Jun 2000, message from
Ray & Betty Terry)
OR
born Feb 1837 (per Info supplied by Preston L. Sammons III, e-mail dated 03
Mar 1998.)
OR
born ca. 1838 (per Mitsawokett digest #192, dated 03 Sep 1999, message from
Donald Fisher)
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Durhams |
|Date: |5/7/2002 8:17:17 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@'), carlnew@ (carlnew@) |
|File: |DurhamBenjamin.rtf (27755 bytes) DL Time (115200 bps): < 1 minute |
Hi, all.
Betty & Ray-- As you know, I have been working diligently to get caught
up on all my pending correspondence.
Linda-- Sorry for such late comments on this material....
I have left Betty & Ray's original document attached for your reference,
in the email below.
A couple of questions--
Betty & Ray, you show William E. Durham (Linda's grandfather) as born 04
Sep 1893, but I had his birthdate as Sep 1895, per Linda's message to the
Mitsawokett group on 05 Jan 2002. You also have his birthplace as Marlton,
Burlington Co, NJ, but Linda stated he was born in Camden, Camden Co, NJ in
her subsequent message to the list on 09 Jan 2002.
Also, if he really was born 04 Sep 1893, it would conflict with the
birthdate (Sep 1893) you have for his sister Bertha E. Durham (unless of
course they were twins).
OK, that's all.
Thanks for your help!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 10:04 PM
To: carlnew@
Cc: spiff@; RomeoJA@
Subject: Re: Durhams
Thanks for the data, Linda. Attached is a file, incorporating that which
you
have sent, for your inspection.
B&R
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Welcome to Mitsawokett (Tranise) / Durham / Seeney |
|Date: |4/27/2002 7:38:31 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On April 8th, Betty & Ray Terry wrote:
>> We have Birdella Seeney listed twice with
>> husbands Harvey Durham and Thomas
>> Beckett, but no indication that this is the
>> same Birdella. The Birdella who married
>> Harvey Durham was the daughter of James
>> D. Seeney and Mary "Molly" Hansor.
Hi, Betty & Ray.
(Sorry to be so late in catching up on this material).
For the time being, I have gone ahead and listed the two Birdella Seeneys
as separate people, until such time as we might confirm them as being
one-and-the-same.
However, to continue the confusion, I show Molly Hansor/Handsor as married
to JOHN Seeney, not James D. Seeney. I show this John Seeney to be the son
of James Seeney, Sr. and Sallie Clark. I show a James Seeney, Jr. in this
family as well, but do not have any spouse listed for him.
I got the marriage information of Molly Hansor/Handsor having married JOHN
Seeney from the message by Matt Sammons that you forwarded to me, Joseph
Romeo and Lishia Durham, dated 21 July 2000.
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Harvey Durham (son of Enoch Durham & Maggie Munce) |
|Date: |4/27/2002 7:40:57 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: LFREIDA15@ ('LFREIDA15@'), BettyandRayTerry@ (BettyandRayTerry@) |
|CC: RWahoor@ (RWahoor@) |
Hi, Lorraine.
In following up on your message attached below (I pasted-in the text from
your Word document)--
1. For the 1900 census data for this Enoch, you mentioned "Their youngest
child at this time was Oretta, b November 1899, age 6/12."
However, is that how her name was spelled in that census record?
According to Joseph Romeo's website, this daughter was JETTA, not Orietta.
He shows JETTA as born Nov 1899, daughter of Enoch's FIRST wife Margaret
("Maggie") Munce (Muntz). And he shows ORIETTA "Etta" as born 1917 (24
July 1917, according to info from Betty & Ray), and that she was a daughter
of Enoch's SECOND wife, Lola (Miller).
Oh, I see later in your message you wrote "Apparently there was two
Oretta's, one dau of 1st. wife, other dau Oretta of second wife m Mr
Thrope."
Yes, it seems there were two, and it's just a matter of interpreting the
spellings of Jetta vs. Orietta/Etta. (Perhaps the elder one died young,
and he named the later daughter after the first one?)
2. When you mention this part "Levi Willis Street m Sarah Morris and
they were parents of Eleanor Street," I assume you mean this was Levi's 2nd
marriage, right? (Since you said in the preceding paragraph that Levi was
Beulah's 2nd husband).
3. Does anyone know if the Levi Willis Street who married Beulah Beckett
Durham is the same as the Levi Willis Street who was the son of Howard D.
Street and Mary Elizabeth Mosley?
Thanks!!!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 11:51 PM
To: spiff@; BettyandRayTerry@; RWahoor@
Subject: Re: Harvey Durham
ED 70, Roll T623, Image 34, 1900 Kent County, De
Durham Enoch, head b June 1858, age 41, m 14 years, all b in De, Maggie,
wife, b Sept 1861, age 38, mother of 14, seven living . Their youngest
child at this time was Oretta, b November 1899, age 6/12. No other
information on this child.
ED 6, Roll T624-145, Image 35, 1910 Kent County De.
Durham, Enoch age 50 , m 3 years, Lola wife, age 24, mother of two, two
living, son Elmer age 19, Wilson, age 15, Harvey, age 14, Mamie, age 12,
Mabel age 8, Maggie age 3, Elmira age 6/12 .
1920 Cheswold Town
Durham, Enoch, age 60, Lola wife age 34, Mabel age 18, Maggie age 13,
Elmira age 11, Herman age 9, Oretta age 2, Leroy age 2 1/2.
ED 15, Roll T 626-286, Image 29, 1930 Kent County, De
Durham, Lola age 49, wd, head of household, Maggie dau, age 24, Herman,
son, age 20, Oretta, dau age 12, Leroy son, age 10, then Viola
grandau, can't make out age, Earnest says son, ( probably grandson)age 2
1/2, Milborn, ?, grandson age 1 1/2
Apparently there was two Oretta's, one dau of 1st. wife, other dau Oretta
of second wife m Mr Thrope.
I have in my notes, mostly from Mom
I haven't researched this Information----------- that Enoch Durham Sr, was
m twice.
Also that Lola the second wifeof Enock Durham Sr., was a Miller before
marriage.
Harvey Durham son of Maggie and Enoch Sr, m first Buelah M Beckett, sister
of Mamie Beckett who m Uncle Tommy Durham, that Buelah and Harvey
separated, had no children, she then m Levi Willis Street from Millsboro,
she also raised Enoch (Jim) Jr and Cora Carney's Durham's son Enoch Durham,
who was a nephew of her first husband Harvey Durham. I also have that
Harvey m Birdella Seeney, second.
Levi Willis Street m Sarah Morris and they were parents of Eleanor Street.
I hate to post things that I haven't researched in depth.
Lorraine
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Document provided to new member Paul Ridgway, Jr. |
|Date: |4/27/2002 8:44:24 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
|CC: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine'), RWahoor@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Thanks for the info. I'm just now getting to this one.
OK, I went to change the date for Arthur, and found ANOTHER headache!! He's in my system TWICE, attached to two different wives!!!
(Oh, no)
1st one:
Arthur Charles Sammons
born 03 Dec 1892, near Dover, Kent Co, DE
died 1964
No parents listed.
wife: Rosella M. Mosley (1910-1978)
married 1927 (per the Mitsawokett site, "Descendants of Wingate & Nancy Mosley")
children:
Luther "Jake" Sammons
Helen "Boots" Sammons
Edith "Edie" Ethel Sammons
2nd one:
Arthur Charles Sammons, Sr.
born 03 Dec 1892, near Dover, Kent Co, DE
died 1964
Parents: Benjamin H. Sammons & Margaret "Maggie" Ridgeway
wife: Beulah M. Ridgway (1898 - 25 Jun 1926) (alternate death: 15 Jan 1926??)
marriage (no date, but info came in message from Rose dated 01 Aug 1998)
children: none listed
It seems that these are both one-and-the-same, but was he married to both women??? If so, which one was the mother of the 3 children?
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 12:14 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Document provided to new member Paul Ridgway, Jr.
Slooooowly getting to these --
In a message dated 4/3/2002 9:12:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
spiff@ writes:
> 3. You have Arthur Charles Sammons (Beulah Ridgway's husband) as born 03
> Dec 1892, but in Mitsawokett digest #317 of 15 Jan 2000 (individual message
> dated 14 Jan 2000), Preston Sammons gave his birthdate as May 1894.
>
1. Fork Branch Sammons listings:
SAMMONS, ARTHUR C. 1892 - 1964 (FATHER OF LUTHER SAMMONS)
2. WWI Civilian Draft Registration: Arthur Sammons, born 3 Dec 1892 near
Dover, Delaware, Black, Registration Kent County, Delaware.
3. Interview with Luther Sammons
B&R
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Sammons, Ridgeway, Etc. (More RE: Document provided to new member Paul Ridgway, Jr.) |
|Date: |4/27/2002 9:17:35 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
|CC: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine'), RWahoor@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie') |
Hi, all.
Regarding the message attached at the bottom--
First, I wrote:
>> 4. I previously did not have Lillie M. Ridgway nor
>> Robert B. Ridgway as children of John Henry &
>> Minnie Ridgeway. However, I had a son James
>> Ridgway listed (who married Bernice Sammons),
>> which you did not. (Per message from Rose Marie
>> Ridgeway, dated 01 Aug 1998).
Then, Ray & Betty replied with:
>> Luther Sammons, Bernice's brother, told us that James
>> Ridgeway's father was Greensbury Ridgeway, mother
>> Sarah Virginia Durham.
>> We believe Robert B. and Lillie M. are children we
>> found at the Archives, but our notes are missing.
1. First I have a question for Ray & Betty (or anyone): Who were the
parents of this brother & sister, Luther and Bernice Sammons? I did not
have any parents or siblings listed for this Bernice (I have two Bernice
Sammons--one married to James Ridgway, and one married to Fred Willard
Morris Hughes). (I do have parents for this 2nd Bernice--William Garfield
Sammons & Ella Durham--but I do not show any brother named Luther in that
family). Are there really two Bernices? Or are these two
one-and-the-same?
And when I looked for Luthers in my system, I have three (but none with a
sister named Bernice):
A. Luther Sammons (no parents) who married Anita Ridgeway, daughter of
Benjamin Franklin Ridgeway, Jr. and Arbana Birdella Ridgway.
B. Luther "Jake" Sammons (son of Arthur Charles Sammons & Rosella M.
Mosley) (per my previous message this evening) who married 3 times: Bertha
Caroline Morris, Anna Bea Johnson, and Josephine _______.
C. Luther Sammons, Jr. (son of Luther "Jake" and Bertha, immediately
above), and for whom I have no spouse listed.
Which one of these Luthers (if any) is supposed to be a brother of the
Bernice who married James Ridgway?
2. This question is for Rose (or anyone): What do you make of Ray &
Betty's comment that Luther said James Ridgway's parents were Greensbury
Ridgway and Sarah Virginia Durham? In your message to me dated 01 Aug
1998, you listed James as one of the 14 children of John Henry Ridgeway and
Minnie Durham, (pasted here):
>> Minnie Durham md. John Henry Ridgway, md. Aug 8, 1888,
>> Asbury Church, Smyrna, De.
>> Minnie Durham> b. Mar 9, 1871 , d. Sept 12, 1946,
>> buried Fork Branch,
>> graves are with some of her children right together.
>>
>> 14 children:
>> Lewis Ridgway md. Cynthia Durham
>> Tilghman D. Ridgway md. Hester Cuff
>> Gladys Ridgway md. Bing Pierce
>> Manford Ridgway md. Mary Robinson
>> Felix T. Ridgway md. Thelma Brown
>> Margaret Ridgway md. Charles Durham
>> James Ridgway md. Bernice Sammons
>> Jeremiah Ridgway
>> Vincent R. Ridgway md. Anna E. Durham
>> McKinley Ridgway
>> Beulah M. Ridgway md. Arthur Sammons, Sr.
>> Frederick H. Ridgway md. Mary Elizabeth Mosley
>> Minnie Ridgway md. Elias A. Pierce, Sr.
>> John H. Ridgway, Jr. md. Ruth Wilson
>>
>> All the children are deceased now, but the wives,
>> Hester Cuff, Mary Robinson, Bernice Sammons Hands,
>> are living in Bridgeton, Ruth Wilson is living in Pa. with
>> her daughter Myra Edwards.
Ahh, just also noticed that in this last paragraph you've listed Bernice
with the last name of Hands, so I presume she re-married after James...?
Anyway, thanks very much for any light you can shed on this!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 9:47 PM
To: Mitsawokett@
Subject: Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Document provided to new member Paul
Ridgway, Jr.
In a message dated 4/3/2002 9:12:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
spiff@ writes:
> 4. I previously did not have Lillie M. Ridgway nor Robert B. Ridgway as
> children of John Henry & Minnie Ridgeway. However, I had a son James
> Ridgway listed (who married Bernice Sammons), which you did not. (Per
> message from Rose Marie Ridgeway, dated 01 Aug 1998).
>
Luther Sammons, Bernice's brother, told us that James Ridgeway's father was
Greensbury Ridgeway, mother Sarah Virginia Durham.
We believe Robert B. and Lillie M. are children we found at the Archives,
but
our notes are missing.
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: "the unknown quote" / Sylvester Ridgway / Etc. |
|Date: |4/27/2002 11:19:17 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
It took me a while to decipher this one, but here goes:
The quote you ascribed to me in your message attached below was actually
written by Lorraine, not me. You found it in my message to Lorraine dated
22 Sep 1998, but I was replying to her message earlier on that date, and
the quote was in her message. I'll try to re-create the conversation....
On April 12, 1998, Lorraine wrote:
>> Then in 1880 there is a census record of Thomas and Mahala
>> Ridgway Johnson, all of their children listed and at the end
>> there is a Sarah Jack 19, and Thomas E Jack age 1, in their
>> household. We were told that Sarah Mosley m Sylvester
>> Ridgway/Jack and later m Morris (Mike) Carney on the
>> census her oldest child is Thomas E , then Fraizer and
>> Elizabeth Carney (the ages match). Also on one of Ed and
>> Louise Heite reports they have listed Thomas E Ridgway
>> as Sally's Carney's son.------I just have a feeling that this is
>> what we're looking for but no proof!!!!!!
Then, on September 20, 1998 (yes, it took me that long to reply! shame on
me!), I wrote:
(and keep in mind I was confused here--for one thing, I didn't realize at
the time that "Mike" Carney's full name was William Morris "Mike" Carney):
>> I thought the Carney who was called "Mike" was
>> another William Carney, not Morris Carney. William
>> "Mike" Carney married Sarah/Sally Mosely, and they
>> had children Elizabeth Carney (who m. Carlos Morris)
>> and Frazier Carney (who m. 1st Emma Mosely & 2nd
>> Nora Jackson). "Mike" and Sally are the couple whose
>> home is now on display at the DE Agricultural Museum.
>> I knew that this Sally had a son (out-of-wedlock, perhaps?
>> or via a 1st husband who died young?) before she
>> married Mike, and this son ended up being called
>> Thomas Carney, even though he wasn't a Carney. This
>> is interesting if he is the Thomas Ridgway you mention.
>> But if I'm not mistaken, Sylvester Ridgway was around
>> a while (i.e. didn't die young), so if this is the same
>> Thomas, and if Sylvester was his father, then he must
>> have been an out-of-wedlock child.
Then, on September 22nd, 1998, Lorraine wrote:
>> I think Ned answered that one about Wm Morris (Mike)
>> Carney today.
>> About Sylvester Jack/Ridgway he could have separated
>> from a first wife and then remarried. He is listed as a
>> son of Tillman and Sina Mosley Jack/Ridgway in the
>> 1860 Census DE age four. In 1880 census records
>> De I have Sylvester b 1856 m Annie ( no maiden name
>> b 1861, and they had a dau Mattie b1879.
So, she was enlightening my poor brain to the somehow overlooked simple
fact Sylvester could have easily fathered Thomas Ridgway, then
divorced/separated and Sally went on to marry Mike. Thomas was then known
by his step-father Mike's surname, Carney.
Whew!
HOWEVER, another interesting tidbit that this journey uncovered is THIS
piece:
Written in my follow-up reply to Lorraine on September 22, 1998:
>> Sylvester's granddaughter told me that Sylvester was
>> married three times, and had either 11 children by a
>> combination of the three wives, or with one of the three
>> wives.
I had forgotten this!!!
This would clearly explain the discrepancy between the two wives you
listed (Anna & Emma) and the two wives I listed (Sally & Anna)--there were
three!
m1. ca. 1877, Sarah "Sally" E. Mosley (1861-1949)
one child: Thomas
m2. ca. 1878, Anna "Annie" Burton (1858/65-1910)
m3. (aft. 1910?), Emma _______
The granddaughter (of Sylvester) who told me this was Anna Ridgeway
Wright, daughter of Brady. I need to find my notes from my conversation
with her. I spoke with her on the phone in the late 1980's....
I just found her obituary (she passed 21 Sep 1989), but I can't seem to
find the notes. I can picture them in my mind, and remember now that she
had given me several names, but it was all very confusing, and this is
probably why I never entered all of it into my database. I remember that
at the time of our conversation she thought Sylvester was a brother of my
gr-gr-grandfather Cornelius Ridgeway, which later proved incorrect.
Well, hopefully that helps to straighten out some of that mess, but--
OK, I'm confused on this part--
If Anna (Burton/Harmon) & Sylvester were married, and Anna died first
(1910), before Sylvester (1934), WHY is her tombstone in Fork Branch
Cemetery if her death certificate says she was buried in Manship??? I have
seen cases where one spouse died, and the surviving spouse had both their
names put on the stone, not figuring they might re-marry, and were
subsequently buried somewhere else with a 2nd spouse (and thus leaving
their name on an empty plot in the 1st spouse's cemetery). But that
wouldn't apply in this case since Anna died first!
(And, we won't even mention the discrepancy of Anna's birth year being
1865 on her death certificate and 1858 on her tombstone! I swear these
people did these things just to make us go psycho!)
Your message also mentioned:
>> We have Gertrude Ridgway Durham's death cert.
>> but did not extract it and it is stored in Maryland.
>> Now we'd like to see what it has to say about her
>> parents
Who is this Gertrude? Is this the wife of Isaiah "Zed" Return Durham?
She is one of two Gertrude Ridg(e)ways in my database, and the only one
married to a Durham. I previously had no parents listed for her. Are you
saying she's the daughter of Sylvester?
I need to get a list of all of Sylvester's children. (I need to find my
notes from my conversation with Anna Wright!!) The only ones I have in my
database are the afore-mentioned Thomas (by Sally) and Mattie and Mamie (by
Anna).
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Recent new "member" |
|Date: |5/16/2002 5:15:06 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: ned@ ('Heite, Ned'), bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
Hi, Ned and Betty & Ray.
After approving the "new member" below, early yesterday morning, I
finished waking up and noticed that the email address seemed rather
unusual, almost like it's another list-serve or something.
Can lists send messages to other lists???
Seems strange....
I haven't had the chance to investigate, but will try to check out the
other list (if it is one) this weekend....
John
-----Original Message-----
From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 6:50 AM
To: 'Mitsawokett-acceptsub-Lb5YWfZxLvnPgBo6@'
Subject: RE: APPROVE -- lumbee-l-request@ wants to join
Mitsawokett
-----Original Message-----
From: Yahoo! Groups Notification
[SMTP:Mitsawokett-acceptsub-Lb5YWfZxLvnPgBo6@]
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 4:34 AM
To: Mitsawokett-owner@
Subject: APPROVE -- lumbee-l-request@ wants to join Mitsawokett
Hello,
A user with the following email address would like to subscribe
to the Mitsawokett group:
lumbee-l-request@
| |
| |
|Subj: |Mitsawokett new member greeting |
|Date: |5/2/2002 10:01:36 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: ned@ ('Heite, Ned'), bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
Hi, Ned & Ray & Betty.
As a result of one of the recent new members who joined the list, I
decided to go to the Yahoo site to see what message is automatically sent
out to new members when they join. (Something about the latest new
member's response--which seemed to be directed toward Ned even though there
was no apparent message from him--made me think that we might want to check
and/or revisit the current "welcome" auto-message).
Following is a copy of what is (currently) automatically sent out when
anyone new joins the list. (As you can see, parts of it are outdated):
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Greetings!
Welcome to the Mitsawokett list. Please take a moment to review this
message.
Please identify yourself by your "real" name, not just your email address.
By
signing up for this list, you have joined a close-knit group, most of whom
are
at least distantly related. Some of us feel more comfortable knowing which
cousin we are addressing.
To unsubscribe from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at
, and select the User Center link from the menu bar
on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription
between digest and normal mode.
The Mitsawokett list is intended solely for the use of people who are
researching the history and genealogy of a community that has lived in Kent
County, Delaware, for centuries. Descendants of these people are found all
over
North America, and many are members of this list.
Feel free to discuss family matters on the list, but please refrain from
diatribes, name-calling, politics, or other off-subject discussion.
You can reach me by email at eheite@.
Ned Heite
Listowner
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
And here is a proposal / suggestion of what we might change / update it
to:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Greetings!
Welcome to the Mitsawokett list. Please take a moment to review this
message.
Please identify yourself by your "real" name, not just your email address.
By
signing up for this list, you have joined a close-knit group, most of whom
are
at least distantly related. Some of us feel more comfortable knowing which
cousin we are addressing.
To unsubscribe from this list, go to the Yahoo Groups site, at:
and select the Edit My Membership link on the right-hand side.
This menu will also let you change your subscription between daily digest
mode and
normal (individual messages) mode.
The Mitsawokett list is intended solely for the use of people who are
researching the history and genealogy of a community that has lived in Kent
County, Delaware, for centuries. Descendants of these people are found all
over
North America, and many are members of this list.
Feel free to discuss family matters on the list, but please refrain from
diatribes, name-calling, politics, or other off-subject discussion.
This includes virus warnings and any other "chain"-type forwarded messages.
If you have any questions or problems, please feel free to contact any of
us below:
Ned Heite, List Owner & Moderator
ned@
Betty & Ray Terry, List Moderators
bettyandrayterry@
John C. Carter, List Moderator
spiff@
Thanks, and again: Welcome!!!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What do you all think?
Any comments or suggestions?
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Sammons Stuff |
|Date: |5/3/2002 6:37:04 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
I'm just now getting around to reading these messages, and making another
attempt to get caught up. I'm committed to using this weekend to try to
make a big dent in the pending stuff!!!
Anyway, I just read the story below, and it was very interesting. (Good
thing I had my Family Tree Maker open, so I could follow along with
who-was-who!)
:-)
Anyway, when I got to the end of your story, it gave me a shock as well!
Last summer while I was up there (and met you), I took my cousin David to
Fork Branch Cemetery to see some of our ancestors' graves, etc. He has a
definite interest in the genealogy, but does not have time to pursue it.
But we spent that day together and I took him to Immanuel Union, Fork
Branch, the DE Ag Museum, to the homes of some cousins in the area, etc.
Anyway, while we were there, there was (you guessed it!) a fellow mowing
the grass, and he stopped the mower to talk to us. I could tell right away
that he was family just from looking at him. He said his name, but I
couldn't hear it, and was too embarrassed to ask him to repeat it. During
the conversation he pointed over to the direction where his first wife was
buried, and where his 2nd wife were buried, but of course I had no idea who
he was talking about at the time. I believe he even said something like
"my 3rd wife will be buried here, too."
Later, when I got back to my aunt's, I spoke to a cousin in Cheswold and
described the encounter and she said, "Oh, that was Jake Sammons."
How strange! I guess he knows exactly when to mow the lawn as to meet
out-of-towners!
By the way, do you have any marriage dates (even approximate) for when
Luther/Jake married Josephine and when he married Anna Bea? My FTM has got
them flipped in sequence, and the easiest way to correct it is to put dates
in the marriage field.
Thanks!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 11:58 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: Sammons Stuff
In a message dated 4/28/2002 9:03:04 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
spiff@ writes:
> I see in my database that she was first married to a _______ Carter,
> then to Howard Clifton Wilson, Jr, and thirdly to Luther A. "Jake"
Sammons,
> right?
>
We got in a bit ago from visiting son and friends 50 miles south of her, so
checked the mail and responded to the first easily answerable item.
We don't know who the Carter is. Howard's sister, Lillian Wilson Carter
Collins, thinks it was not one of our Carters.
A story.
When Wilson Davis married Grace Wilson in 1934, they found themselves too
poor to raise Betty. Betty lived with her aunt, Pearl Mosley Whiteman
(later
Chapelle) from age 3 to age 6 in Philadelphia, then back to Wilson and
Grace.
When Betty got older, Aunt Pearl told her several times that her house in
Philadelphia would be left to her. However, Aunt Pearl moved to Cheswold
in
older age. She and John Chapelle lived in a rather nice trailer. Then
Aunt
Pearl died.
John Chapelle went to court and broke Aunt Pearl's will which had left the
trailer to Wilson and Grace for Betty. Why that arrangement no one knows.
But, in Delaware, as in many other states, a spouse cannot will away the
common home, so that provision of the will was invalid on it's face.
Howard C. Wilson Jr., Betty's natural uncle, was very nice to John as he
aged, helping him whenever help was needed. John left everything he had to
Howard, who had married Mrs. Josephine Coke Carter. Josephine had been a
worker at Dover Air Force Base who got to know a co-worker, Anna Jeanette
Wilson Saunders Strickland, Howard's cousin, well enough for Anna to
introduce the two.
Howard died. Everything became Josephine's. Josephine remarried, then
died.
We visited Fork Branch Cemetery one day to acquire Josephine's dates from
her
stone, which we had learned was located at that cemetery.
We asked a fellow mowing the grass if he happened to know where Howard
Wilson's wife Josephine's grave was. He gave a start and his eyes widened
a
bit. It was Luther Sammons and we were talking about his dear departed
wife!
We visited Luther Sammon's home some time later--and there was all of Aunt
Pearl's furniture!! We all had a good laugh. We have sufficient for our
needs and don't miss
being able to display Aunt Pearl's things at all.
By the way, Luther's 3rd wife, Anna Bea, may be developing Alzheimer's
disease. She had a terrible time remembering anything about her family and
messed up what she did remember.
-----------------------------
Betty and Ray Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: More Sammons Stuff |
|Date: |5/3/2002 6:40:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Hi again,
Regarding:
>> "Mae Collins, sister of Howard C. Wilson Jr., reports that
>> Josephine married 1st a Carter, then a Farley, then Mr.
>> Carter again, then H.C. Wilson Jr. and lastly Luther
>> "Jake" Sammons."
WOW!!!
That's enough to clog the FTM right there!
:-)
Anyway, is Mae Collins the same sister (of Howard) as Lillian? Or did they just both marry Collins'?
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 12:02 AM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: Sammons Stuff
In a message dated 4/28/2002 9:03:04 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
spiff@ writes:
> she was first married to a _______ Carter,
> then to Howard Clifton Wilson, Jr, and thirdly to Luther A. "Jake" Sammons
Oops, we spoke too quickly. Just looked at Josephine in the database and
found this note, not that it matters all that much--
"Mae Collins, sister of Howard C. Wilson Jr., reports that Josephine married
1st a Carter, then a Farley, then Mr. Carter again, then H.C. Wilson Jr. and
lastly Luther "Jake" Sammons."
-----------------------------
Betty and Ray Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |Re: More Sammons Stuff |
|Date: |5/17/2002 8:01:08 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: |BettyandRayTerry |
|To: |spiff@ |
In a message dated 5/3/2002 6:40:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
>> "Mae Collins, sister of Howard C. Wilson Jr., reports that
>> Josephine married 1st a Carter, then a Farley, then Mr.
>> Carter again, then H.C. Wilson Jr. and lastly Luther
>> "Jake" Sammons."
WOW!!!
That's enough to clog the FTM right there!
:-)
Anyway, is Mae Collins the same sister (of Howard) as Lillian? Or did they just both marry Collins'?
Can't find that we answered this --
Lillian Mae Wilson (called Mae), 3/4 sister to Grace Wilson Davis (same father, mothers were sisters), married 1st Howard Attix Carter, son of Howard Edward Carter and Josephine Mosley.
Lillian Mae m 2nd Joseph Collins, a foreigner to the Cheswold community.
We have no parents for Howard Edward Carter.
Josephine Mosley's parents -- Thomas B. Mosley and Sarah Elizabeth Mosley. We cannot connect the parents further back.
We have listed separately Thomas Burton Mosley who married Mary Jane Driggus. He was the son of Purnell P. Mosley and Eliza Jane Johnson. We do not know if the two Thomases are the same person.
Also, in trying to clear out old messages (like a certain party we know!) we see that we did not respond to your clarifications and additions to the Mitsawokett welcoming message. We echo Ned Heite: Well done!
---------------------
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: David P. Street & Matilda A. Johnson |
|Date: |5/3/2002 7:01:37 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@'), LFREIDA15@ (LFREIDA15@) |
Hi, Ray & Betty & Lorraine--
So, am I correct in noticing that Lorraine has David P. Street's death
date as April 4, 1911, and Betty & Ray have it as April 5, 1911...?
Just want to make sure that neither one of you made a typo.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 9:21 PM
To: spiff@; LFREIDA15@
Subject: Re: David P. Street & Matilda A. Johnson
In a message dated 4/28/2002 9:23:41 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
spiff@ writes:
> I show this Matilda as born ca. 1842. I got this from:
> Message to Mitsawokett list, dated 05 Jan 2000, message from Sterling
> Street
>
Some info about Matilda --
1. Tombstones of Sussex County, vol I, Downstate Delaware Genealogical
Society, 1999: Indian Mission Cemetery, near Harbeson, DE:
Matilda A. Street b 9/30/1840 same stone with David P. Street
David P. Street same stone with Matilda A. b 03/10/1822, d 04/05/1911
2. Sterling tells who Matilda's parents are --
From: "John C. Carter" <
HREF="
121021135062046036199121125067038139008186043138">spiff@xxxxxxxx.xxxx
Date: Mon Jan 3, 2000 6:27 pm
Subject: Re: Streets / Mosley / Johnson / Harmon
Hi, Sterling & all.
Do you know the parents of...(snip)...Matilda Johnson or Anna Harmon (the
wives of David P. Street)?
From:
HREF="
132099134218038163056114125067038139008186043">s.v.street@xxx.xxx
Date: Mon Jan 3, 2000 9:01 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Streets / Mosley / Johnson / Harmon
Hi John & all,
(snip)...Matilda Johnson was the daughter of Purnal and Ann
Johnson. I don't know who Ann Johnson's parents were.
Ann had a sister named Sophia and a brother named Robert.
There was also a James Clark living in the household, who
I assume is the father of Chief William Russel Clark.
-----------------------------
Betty and Ray Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |Re: David P. Street & Matilda A. Johnson |
|Date: |5/17/2002 8:15:28 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: |BettyandRayTerry |
|To: |spiff@ |
In a message dated 5/3/2002 7:01:37 PM Mountain Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
So, am I correct in noticing that Lorraine has David P. Street's death
date as April 4, 1911, and Betty & Ray have it as April 5, 1911...?
Our date came from the book. This probably is closer to the actual state of affairs we get on the List from folks swapping war stories!!
Tombstones of Sussex County, vol I, Downstate Delaware Genealogical
Society, 1999: Indian Mission Cemetery, near Harbeson, DE:
Matilda A. Street b 9/30/1840 same stone with David P. Street
David P. Street same stone with Matilda A. b 03/10/1822, d 04/05/1911
---------------------
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Becketts-Sammons |
|Date: |5/3/2002 10:21:04 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On April 20th, Bill Richardson wrote:
>> Looking for descendants of the children of Greensbury
>> Becketts, b. Dec. 23,1813; d. April 23, 1863, Delaware;
>> married Deborah Sammons, b. 1820, Delaware;
>> died Unknown, Delaware. (He is buried in Manship
>> Cemetery, Cheswold, DE.)
>>
>> Children:
>>
>> 1) Mary, b. 1842; d. Unknown.
>> 2) Zachariah, b. 1843; d. Unknown.
>> 3) Perry, b. 1845; d. Unknown.
>> 4) John, b. 1848; d. Unknown.
Hi, Bill.
Thanks for this info. I previously did not have these four children in my
database.
However, I had one child entered for Greensbury and Deborah, and he wasn't
among the four you listed:
Peter Beckett, b. ca. 1857, also buried in Manship / Immanuel Union
cemetery. (per message from Joseph Romeo sent to this list on 06 May
2001).
I believe this is the same as the Peter H. Beckett (1857-1942) who was the
husband of Mary E. Reed (1858-1936).
Can anyone confirm???
Bill, at the time of Joseph's post to the list (06 May 2001), there were a
few other posts to the list from Betty & Ray Terry, containing
transcriptions of wills, settlements of estate, admin. etc. of three older
Becketts, of whom I do not know specifically how they connect to these
other Becketts.
If you don't have those messages, or if you can't find them in the list
archives, let me know and I will forward them to you.
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Becketts-Sammons |
|Date: |5/18/2002 3:32:32 AM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: |BettyandRayTerry |
|To: |Mitsawokett@ |
In a message dated 5/3/2002 10:21:04 PM Mountain Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
Looking for descendants of the children of Greensbury
>> Becketts, b. Dec. 23,1813; d. April 23, 1863, Delaware;
>> married Deborah Sammons, b. 1820, Delaware;
>> died Unknown, Delaware. (He is buried in Manship
>> Cemetery, Cheswold, DE.)
>>
>> Children:
>>
>> 1) Mary, b. 1842; d. Unknown.
>> 2) Zachariah, b. 1843; d. Unknown.
>> 3) Perry, b. 1845; d. Unknown.
>> 4) John, b. 1848; d. Unknown.
Hi, Bill.
Thanks for this info. I previously did not have these four children in my
database.
However, I had one child entered for Greensbury and Deborah, and he wasn't
among the four you listed:
Peter Beckett, b. ca. 1857, also buried in Manship / Immanuel Union
cemetery. (per message from Joseph Romeo sent to this list on 06 May
2001).
I believe this is the same as the Peter H. Beckett (1857-1942) who was the
husband of Mary E. Reed (1858-1936).
Can anyone confirm???
Greensbury Beckett was probably married twice, first to Deborah Sammons & had kids above, then apparently to Hester ----, by whom he had George, Elijah and Peter H.
Our notes:
1. Date: 99-08-26
From: bugs@ (FLOYD HANDSOR)
Mary Mccorkle wrote:
>Came home again for a couple of days and went to the Land Register Office in Chatham (Canada) to pick up some more documents that Bill and I are working on. The question I have is the one document Perry Hanzer purchased land from Perry Beckets of County of Kent, State of Delaware. It states he is the grandson of the late Benjamin and it looks like Salmons (I can't make it out) and only child to Deborah Beckets.
>This transaction took place October 21, 1872. It is the same piece of property passed on to Cornelius, James and John Handsor and Margaret Boswell February 21,1888. Do you have any information on this Perry or Deborah Beckets? I will be home until late Friday evening I would be glad to hear from you. If not Bill will be back home on Monday and will be coming to the cottage next week. If you don't get back to me maybe you and he can discuss it and he will let me know. I am anxious to know where this name came from.
2. Subj: [Mitsawokett] Becket - Sammons
Date: 99-08-26
From: RomeoJA@
In a message dated 8/26/99 18:57:40 Eastern Daylight Time, bugs@ writes:
1850 - Delaware, New Castle Co., Appoquinimink Hundred, 437-447, 09 Oct 1850:
Greenbury Becket, 37, M, B, Farmer, Delaware
Deborah, 30, F, B, Delaware
Mary, 8 F, B, Delaware
Zachariah, 7, M, B, Delaware
Perry, 5, M, B, Delaware
John, 2, M, B
From the above, it appears that Deborah Becket is the wife of Greensbury Becket and Perry Becket is their son.
1860 - Delaware, Kent Co., Dover Hundred, 431-427, [08 Jun 1860]:
Greenberry Becket, 48, M, M, Farmer, pers $150, Delaware
Hester, 28, F, M, Delaware
Perry, 14, M, M, Delaware
John H, 10, M, M, Delaware
George, 7, M, M, Delaware
Elijah, 3, M, M, Delaware
Peter, 3, M, M, Delaware
In this record, it appears that Greenberry is now married to Hester, and we can infer that Deborah Becket is deceased. If Perry Becket is the only child of Deborah Becket in 1872, George, Elijah, and Peter Becket above are probably the children of Hester. And Mary, Zachariah, and John Becket, who presumably are other children of Deborah, must have died prior to 1872. (It is interesting that we have a Zachariah here, and later we find Zachariah used as the name for a son of James Simons [=Salmons]).
Although I have not seen the deed itself, I infer from the recitation of ancestry (1) that the land in question belonged in fact to Benjamin Salmons, father of Deborah and grandfather of Perry Becket; (2) that Benjamin Salmons died prior to 1872; (3) that Perry Becket was entitled to a share in the land as a surviving heir of Benjamin Salmons through his late mother Deborah; and (4) that this is the deed by which he sold his share in the land.
The deed should not be taken as evidence that the Beckets were ever in Ontario; likewise, the similar deed from Prudy and Edward Concler [=Concealer] should not be taken as evidence that they were in Ontario either. From what has been posted, it only appears that they inherited land
in Ontario.
The deed can however be used to establish Deborah Becket as a daughter of Benjamin Salmons.
3. Don Fisher web site:
1840 DE New Castle Co Appoquinomink 100 p. 324.
Greensburry Beckets (free colored)
1 male 24-35
1 10-23
1 female 24-35
1 10-23
Next door to Benjamin Sammons. On same page as: Mitchell Perkins (wife Sarah Becketts), James Songi, Elisha Counsellor, and Hannah Siscoe.
1850 DE Kent Co ?? 100 p. 244. [Do not have this listing, only the index reference. Have the second page with the two youngest children.]
Greensbury Becket 37 DE, Deborah 30 DE, Mary 8 DE, Zachariah 7 DE, [p. 245] Perry 5 DE, John 2 DE.
What happened to the older children in 1840 listing? In 1840 was Deborah the younger female? Perhaps Deborah is a second wife to Greensbury. Suppose wife in 1840 was age 27 (over 23) as Greensbury was. Could they have two children over 10?
Also, given age in 1850, he could be the twin of Sarah Becketts, not just a brother.
---------------------
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Norwood - Miller Families (DE to MI) |
|Date: |5/3/2002 10:38:36 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On April 19th, TheoLouise wrote:
>> I may have said this before but it may be worth repeating.
>> I have the document of marriage of Alexander Mosley and
>> his bride Rebecca Ann Miller dated Aug 1862. He is
>> listed as 26years old of Milford Neck, Sussex County.
>> His parents were Purnell & Rebecca Mosley.
>> His bride, Rebecca Ann Miller, is listed as 22years old
>> from Smyrna-Kenton, Kent County. Her parents were
>> Isachar and Elizabeth Miller. The ceremony was
>> performed by I Dickerson of M.E. Church in Frederica, DE.
Thanks, TheoLouise!
However, I'm curious about the date you referenced for the marriage.
Back on 25 Jan 2000, Jean Foster (another member of this list), sent the
following to Betty & Ray Terry and I:
>> I have a copy of a record of marriage between Alexander
>> Mosley and Rebecca Ann Miller dated Jan 9th, 1862 He
>> was 26 years old and she was 22. His father and mother
>> were shown as Purnell and Rebecca Mosley. Her father
>> and mother were shown as Isachar(?) and Eliza Miller
>> Source- Photostat of Marriage Record Book 1-B-Kent Co
I wonder why the difference between the Jan 9th and the Aug marriage
dates...? Could one be the bond for the marriage and the other one be the
actual marriage??
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: CAREY family, etc. |
|Date: |5/4/2002 11:36:03 AM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Regarding:
>> Grace was never married to a Sammons.
>> She co-inhabited with Oscar P. Sammons
Ahh, yes, I see in my database I have them entered as "friends" rather
than spouses, so I had received that info on their marital status before.
But I wasn't sure (until now) that these were the same Grace. Thanks,
Regarding:
>> It appears the error was ours and Chris Wimmer
>> copied it from something either posted or distributed
>> since his offering and our database are identical.
>> John, what is your source for the exact dates?
My source was this message sent by Lorraine to the list on 28 May 2001:
>> --Betty and John
>> I have Della Marie Ridgway, dau of Tillman and Louise
>> Sammons Ridgway M to Charles Edward Carey, b in MD
>> February 26,1874, d in Asbury Park, NJ July 4, 1946.
>> They were m August 2, 1894 in De. Della Marie was
>> b May 5, 1878 and d April 17 1948 in Cheswold, De.
>> Parents of Heneritta, Grace, LuLu, Wm, and Howard Carey.
>> Have no information about a Clark m.
>> Lorraine
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: CAREY family, etc. |
|Date: |5/4/2002 11:41:39 AM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Hi again, Chris & all.
Regarding my first question in my previous message (from last night):
>> 1. Do you know who Grace Carey married? I have a Grace
>> Carey in my data as the wife of Oscar Perkins Sammons
>> (1902-1961), but am not sure whether or not this would be
>> the same Grace....
Please disregard. I have found out that these are one-and-the-same Grace
Carey. (However, for the record, Grace and Oscar were not married, but
rather co-habitated).
And, since my database already included info on Grace's sister Bertha
(which I didn't notice when I sent my previous message last night, since I
didn't realize then that these two Graces were the same), I can now address
one of the other questions in Chris' message:
On April 15th, Chris Wimmer wrote:
>> Susie Carey was the SISTER of Henrietta Victoria Carey.
>> Other siblings included Wilmore Carey, Charles Howard
>> Carey, Grace Carey, Lulu R. Carey (called LULA), and
>> one other sister that the whole family has refered to as
>> Bertha Carey. All of these people have passed, with
>> Henrietta Victoria being the last, just last year.
>> Henrietta Victoria was my wife Paula's Mom Mom.
>>
>> My search actually shows an Anne Carey in the lineage,
>> and I have not determined yet if Anne might have been a
>> given name, with Bertha as a middle name that she went
>> by. ANY HELP HERE WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
It's now clear that Anne and Bertha must have been two separate
individuals. Bertha's full name was actually Bertha Mabel Carey.
Here is some info on her:
Bertha Mabel Carey
b. 15 Dec 1895
d. 15 Feb 1966
married:
Phillip H. Jackson
b. 15 Nov 1888
d. 10 Jun 1960
They are both buried in the Jackson-Perkins Cemetery, Middleford, Sussex
Co, DE.
Thanks!!
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] Re: CAREY family, etc. |
|Date: |5/5/2002 3:53:07 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: chriswimmer@ (outlawpj) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ |
John.... your questions and my answers...
I had a couple of questions/comments:
1. Do you know who Grace Carey married? I have a Grace
Carey in my data
as the wife of Oscar Perkins Sammons (1902-1961), but am not sure
whether
or not this would be the same Grace....
This is the same Grace as we have in our family tree... Family
interviews reveal though that Grace never married Oscar Perkins
Sammons (1902-1961). Other information I have is that she co-
inhabited with Oscar P. Sammons who never divorced Letisha Theresa
(Ridgway) Sammons.
2. You mentioned:
>> My records show Henrietta Victoria Carey with
>> parents of Charles Edward Carey b. 1874,
>> d. April 17, 1948
>> and Della Mae Ridgway b. 1878, d. 1948
I see that Betty & Ray Terry responded to your inquiry
concerning the
burial place for Charles & Della, but I noticed a date discrepancy
with
your info as well (as compared to mine). I have Charles Edward's
dates as
b. 26 Feb 1874 and d. 04 Jul 1946 (you had 17 April 1948, but I show
this
as DELLA MAE'S death date, not Charles Edward's): Della Mae Ridgway
Carey,
b. 05 May 1878, d. 17 Apr 1948.
Did you have your death dates juxtaposed? Or is my info
incorrect?
In further research, I believe YOUR information is correct.
3. You mentioned:
>> Susie and Horace Enos Clark (he was refered to as Enos)
>> had 6 children.
>> the children are:
>> Paulene Sarah Clark b. July 31, 1929
>> Doris Geneva Clark b. December 26, 1930
>> Horace Russell Clark b. August 18, 1933 deceased, year unknown
>> Hattie Marie Clark b. April 30, 1935
>> Irma Lee Clark b. December 16, 1936
You stated there were 6 children, but you only listed 5. Is
there another
child?
No... not another child in my database... I just couln't count! :-
) I obtained this information directly from Hattie Marie Clark in a
personal interview. My brain said one thing, my fingers hit a
different key when responding to the messages.
4. You mentioned:
>> Children of Ronald Agustus and Hattie Marie are:
>> April Gaselle Durham b. June 3, 1959
>> Ronald Agustus Durham b. November 28, 1959
>> David Elmer Durham b. January 5, 1961
However, I think the birth-year for either April or Ronald Jr
must be
wrong--there is only a six-months difference between their ages--too
soon
for another child to be born.
I checked with my database, and with Hattie again... Ronald Agustus
was born in 1953, (NOT 1959...)
Chris
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] Re: CAREY family, etc. |
|Date: |5/5/2002 4:02:24 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: chriswimmer@ (outlawpj) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ |
John... thanks for the info on Bertha Mabel Carey below..
now my search for where Anne Carey fits in begins...
Chris
--- In Mitsawokett@y..., "John C. Carter" wrote:
> Hi again, Chris & all.
>
> Regarding my first question in my previous message (from last
night):
>
> >> 1. Do you know who Grace Carey married? I have a Grace
> >> Carey in my data as the wife of Oscar Perkins Sammons
> >> (1902-1961), but am not sure whether or not this would be
> >> the same Grace....
>
> Please disregard. I have found out that these are one-and-
the-same Grace
> Carey. (However, for the record, Grace and Oscar were not married,
but
> rather co-habitated).
>
> And, since my database already included info on Grace's
sister Bertha
> (which I didn't notice when I sent my previous message last night,
since I
> didn't realize then that these two Graces were the same), I can now
address
> one of the other questions in Chris' message:
>
> On April 15th, Chris Wimmer wrote:
>
> >> Susie Carey was the SISTER of Henrietta Victoria Carey.
> >> Other siblings included Wilmore Carey, Charles Howard
> >> Carey, Grace Carey, Lulu R. Carey (called LULA), and
> >> one other sister that the whole family has refered to as
> >> Bertha Carey. All of these people have passed, with
> >> Henrietta Victoria being the last, just last year.
> >> Henrietta Victoria was my wife Paula's Mom Mom.
> >>
> >> My search actually shows an Anne Carey in the lineage,
> >> and I have not determined yet if Anne might have been a
> >> given name, with Bertha as a middle name that she went
> >> by. ANY HELP HERE WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
>
>
> It's now clear that Anne and Bertha must have been two
separate
> individuals. Bertha's full name was actually Bertha Mabel Carey.
> Here is some info on her:
>
> Bertha Mabel Carey
> b. 15 Dec 1895
> d. 15 Feb 1966
> married:
> Phillip H. Jackson
> b. 15 Nov 1888
> d. 10 Jun 1960
>
> They are both buried in the Jackson-Perkins Cemetery,
Middleford, Sussex
> Co, DE.
>
> Thanks!!
> John
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: William R. Ridgway / Etc. |
|Date: |5/4/2002 10:54:43 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: Altumsplendis@ (Altumsplendis@), bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine') |
Hi, all.
In following up on the message below (from Betty & Ray, containing info &
document from Lorraine), I had a few questions/comments--
1. Regarding the following:
>> >From Lorraine Johnson-Gregg, March 2002:
>>
>> FIRST GENERATION
>> < snip >
>> Artalissa Wright was born on Jan 22 1903 in Canton, NJ.
>> No children by second m to James Mulford She was buried
>> on Jun 28 1975 in Gouldtown Memorial Park, Gouldtown,
>> Cumberland, New Jersey. She died on Jun 25 1976 in
>> CUMBERLAND COUNTY, NJ
One of these years (death / burial) must be wrong, since she couldn't have
been buried a year before she passed away.
:-)
Should it be 1975 or 1976?
2. Regarding this part:
>> He was married to Estella Janie Licanchuck
>> (daughter of Stephan Likanchuk and
>> Mary Matusevna). No children by this marriage
There are two different spellings of Licanchuck / Likanchuk here. Which
one is correct?
3. In the attached document from Lorraine, it had:
>> Walter E Nuke Ridgway was born in 1896 in DE.
>> He died on Nov 10 1966 in NJ.
I have this Walter as Walter Proctor Ridgway, Jr., not Walter E.
This is not the first time there has been confusion with the middle names
in this branch. I had a discussion with G. Dolly Ridgeway Pritchett
Wright-Morris in early 2001 about the father, Walter Sr's middle name as
well. She claimed that her mom Alberta (daughter of Walter Sr.)
strenuously denied that his middle name was Proctor, and insisted that it
was Allen/Alan. A quote from that discussion was that Dolly's mother (who
was still living at the time--Feb 2001--at age 99--stated, "I should know
my own father's name." In response I provided Dolly with two sources that
pointed at his middle name being Proctor: his father Alfred Ridgeway's
Civil War pension records (which listed him as Walter P.) and the 1880
census (which listed him as Walter Proctor). I asked her if there was any
documentation showing him as having the middle name Allen/Alan, but
received no response to this question.
Now, here we have his son Walter Jr. listed as Walter E., whereas if he
really was a "Jr" he would be Walter Proctor Jr.
By the way, one of the messages from Dolly also notes that the father,
Walter Sr's nickname was "Dewey."
This is enough to make someone go bonkers!
:-)
4. Regarding this (in Lorraine's document):
>> Anna May Pierce was born in 1933 in NJ.
>> She died in Sep 1993 in NJ.
>> She was married to unknown Hymer.
>> Walter Pierce Jr was born in 1927 in NJ.
>> He died on Sep 14 1989 in NJ.
>> He was married to Alberta Hymer
Was the "unknown Hymer" to whom Anna May was married related to the
Alberta Hymer that her brother Walter Jr. married? Could the two Hymers
have been brother and sister?
5. Lorraine, it looks like you have a glitch in the genealogy program
that created your document, because it has Walter Jr. listed as marrying
the same wife twice, and has the daughter Emma under each. (Just an FYI,
in case you need to fix something in your database):
>> Walter Pierce Jr was born in 1927 in NJ. He died on
>> Sep 14 1989 in NJ.
>> He was married to Alberta Hymer. Walter Pierce Jr and
>> Alberta Hymer had the following children:
>> 12 i. Walter G Pierce III.
>> +13 ii. Emma Pierce.
>> +14 iii. Virginia Pierce.
>> +15 iv. Verna Pierce.
>> +16 v. Rhoda Pierce.
>> He was married to ALBERTA V. HYMER on May 30 1947.
>> ALBERTA V. HYMER was born on Oct 29 1928 in Greenwich,
>> N.J.. Walter Pierce Jr and ALBERTA V. HYMER had the
>> following children:
>> +13 i. Emma Pierce.
6. Lorraine, toward the end of the document (after Marie "Sissy" Pierce
and Darlington Henry's children), you have the following:
>> Leon Harmon (son of Doris Harmon) was born in 1951 in
>> Mannington Twp, Salem, N.J.. He died on Oct 12 1997 in
>> South Jersey Hospital System, Bridgeton Division, Bridgeton,
>> NJ. He was buried in Evergreen Cemetery, Salem, NJ.
However, I don't see any reference earlier in the document to either a
Leon Harmon or a Doris Harmon. Who are these people and how do they fit-in
with this branch?
7. Regarding this part:
>> Denise Morris was born on Oct 21 1964 in Dover Delaware.
>> She was married to Rannell Lockley.
>> She was married to Clemett Clemy Durham (son of
>> Carl Durham and Rosella Pricilla Thompson).
>> Clemett Clemy Durham was born on Mar 9 1964 in Bridgeton, NJ.
Who is Carl Durham the son of? I didn't have him in my database.
8. Regarding this part:
>> Denise Morris and Clemett Clemy Durham had the
>> following children:
>> 30 i. Clem Martin Durham.
>> 31 ii. Nicholas Durham.
>> 32 iii. Martinia Morris was born on
>> Aug 16 1982 in Bridgeton Hospital.
Why is the 3rd child, Martinia, listed as a Morris instead of a Durham?
Whew!
Ok, all done with this one.
Sorry for all the questions, but I thought I would try to clear all this
up, while I had a chance to work on it.
Thanks very much again for all your help!!!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 1:34 AM
To: spiff@; Altumsplendis@
Subject: Re: William R. Ridgway
In a message dated 4/17/2002 8:56:01 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
spiff@ writes:
>From Lynette:
> My grandmother's
> father was Elwood "Fritz" Johnson. Who was a brother to Lorraine's
father.
> Elwood married Arltalissa (Arlissa) Wright they had three children
Rebecca,
> Melvin(Bucky), and Anna (my grandmother). They later divorced and
Arlissa
> married Jim Mulford and Elwood married a lady by the name of Janie....
>From Lorraine Johnson-Gregg, March 2002:
FIRST GENERATION
1. Elwood "Fritz" Johnson was born on Apr 28 1900 in DE. He died on Mar 9
1968 in Seabreeze Rd, Fairfield TWP, Cumberland County, NJ. He was buried
on
Mar 13 1968 in Siloam Cemetery, Vineland NJ. He had Social Security Number
211-22-4611.
He was married to Artalissa Wright (daughter of Edward Wright and Barbara
Pierce). Artalissa Wright was born on Jan 22 1903 in Canton, NJ. No
children by second m to James Mulford She was buried on Jun 28 1975 in
Gouldtown Memorial Park, Gouldtown, Cumberland, New Jersey. She died on
Jun
25 1976 in CUMBERLAND COUNTY, NJ. Elwood "Fritz" Johnson and Artalissa
Wright had the following children:
2 i. Elwood Johnson Jr was buried in Gouldtown Cem.
+3 ii. Rebecca Johnson.
+4 iii. Melvin Johnson.
+5 iv. Anna Johnson.
He was married to Estella Janie Licanchuck (daughter of Stephan Likanchuk
and
Mary Matusevna). No children by this marriage....
---------------
See the attachment for further info about Reba's family.
---------------
Betty and Ray Terry
-------------------------
>
| |
| |
|Subj: |Lumbee list subscribing to Mitsawokett list?? |
|Date: |5/19/2002 1:25:21 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: lumbee-admin@ ('lumbee-admin@') |
|CC: ned@ ('Heite, Ned'), bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
Hello.
My name is John Carter and I am one of the administrators of a Yahoo Group
/ List called "Mitsawokett.," dedicated to researching the genealogy and
history of a community with Native American ancestry in the Kent County, DE
area (but with ties to Sussex County, DE, southern New Jersey, and other
isolated areas).
A few days ago our list received a request from the email address
"lumbee-l-request@" to join our group. I just wanted to
confirm if this was correct, and it seemed a bit unusual. I had never
known one list to be a subscriber to another list, and just wanted to make
sure nothing was amiss.
Also, even if one list were technically-allowed to serve or "gateway"
messages to another, the address "lumbee-l-request@" doesn't
seem to be a logical address to which messages could post. Since this
email address contains the word "request" and would presumably only be used
when new members were attempting to join the Lumbee list, it would seem
that each time the Mitsawokett list would post a message, the message would
attempt to "join" the Lumbee list rather than post to it.
Thanks in advance for any information you can offer.
Sincerely,
John
John C. Carter
one of the moderators / administrators of:
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Lumbee list subscribing to Mitsawokett list?? |
|Date: |5/19/2002 1:58:56 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: quest@ ('Karima') |
|CC: ned@ ('Heite, Ned'), bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
Thanks, Karima.
I have just unsubscribed the Lumbee list from the Mitsawokett list.
Take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Karima [SMTP:quest@]
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 3:48 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: Lumbee list subscribing to Mitsawokett list??
Hi,
I just took over as administrator for the LUMBEE list yesterday. No, the
list should not be subscribed to your list. Your messages wouldn't go
through to the LUMBEE list, but I would received all of the messages that
came from your list.
Not sure how that happened, but please unsubscribe the LUMBEE list. Thanks
for your help.
Karima
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Harvey Durham Questions |
|Date: |5/6/2002 8:04:36 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: LFREIDA15@ ('LFREIDA15@') |
|CC: BettyandRayTerry@ (BettyandRayTerry@) |
Hi, Lorraine.
OK, only 2 short questions and 1 comment on this one....
1. Regarding this:
>> Ruth Seeney dau of Joseph and Sallie Durham Seeney.
>> 1900 Ed 81, Image 7, West Dover, household # 64
>>
>> Seeney, Joseph head, b Jan 1869, age 30, all b in De.
>> Ann, wife, b April 1873, age 27, 4 children 4 living,
>> Helen P, dau, b May 1895, age 6,
>> Rhoda A, dau, b September 1894, age 5,
>> Ollie B son, b September 1896, age 3,
>> Ruth May, dau, b February 1897, age 3,
Hmm, wouldn't you figure--I don't have Joseph Seeney in my database,
either! (Do you know who his parents were?)
Also, you said Ruth was the daughter of Joseph and Sallie, but the census
record has his wife as Ann...???
### Ray & Betty-- I just noticed there is no Seeney page on the
Mitsawokett site (among the Family History Reports).... Has this always
been the case?
2. Regarding:
>> Thanks for the info, all the Creeks around here are like;
>> Lower Alloway Creek, Upper Alloway Creek, Stow
>> Creek Township, Dividing Creek etc.
>> I wonder which one Authur E was born in
Oh. I guess I just thought he was born in a town called "Creek." Duh.
:-) No wonder that sounded funny!
3. Regarding:
>> Irving Pritchett, brother of Sarah Reba Johnson, Raymond,
>> Frank, Clifford, Goldie, They were children of Alexander and
>> Sadie Beckett Pritchett. Alexander b in MD 1877, was
>> living in NJ and m to Sadie Beckett b 1882, they had 4
>> children by the 1910 census.
Is this Frank Pritchett the same as the Frank C. Pritchett who married
Priscilla Durham, daughter of Henry H. Durham and Rebecca Mosley?
OK, almost done with this one!
The end is in sight!
:-)
Take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 2:47 PM
To: BettyandRayTerry@; spiff@
Subject: Re: Harvey Durham Questions
Hello
#1 Mary Durham m William (Bill) Morris second , no children by this m, he
died before Mary did.
His Parents: Census Records 1900 E Dover 100, V27,pg 21, line 13
household 325
Taken June 23, 1900 all b in DE
Morris George H , b July 1872 age 27, m
Lydia A wife, b June 1873, age 27 , m, mother of 3, 3 living,
Robert, son, b May 1897, age 3,
William, son, b sept 1898, age 1,
John, son, b September 1899, 8/12,
Mary, aunt, b April 1842, age 51, single.
1910 census ED 6, Image 38, West Dover,De
Morris George, head, age 38, m 13 years, all b De, All mu,
Lydia Ann, wife, age 36, 8 children, 7 living,
Robert , age 13,
William, age 11,
John, age 10,
Eliza, age 9,
Vinnie, age 8,
Oscar, age 7,
Sarah E, age 5.
Notes that I have from Maybelle Bordley in ( ) on each of the
children of above.
(Robert was killed by Lightening in the pasture. William m Mary Durham
Bordley Morris. John m Ethel Webster, they had 2 sons John m Elva
Streets
and Robert (Rab) who never married. Eliza was a spinster, Oscar,
bachelor,
Vinnie m Roy Morgan first, second Arthur ?, Sarah E was a spinster,
Maybelle also has a Lawrence on this list of children.) I didn't pick
him up on the census?
2 Ruth Seeney dau of Joseph and Sallie Durham Seeney.
1900 Ed 81, Image 7, West Dover, household # 64
Seeney, Joseph head, b Jan 1869, age 30, all b in De.
Ann, wife, b April 1873, age 27, 4 children 4 living,
Helen P, dau, b May 1895, age 6,
Rhoda A, dau, b September 1894, age 5,
Ollie B son, b September 1896, age 3,
Ruth May, dau, b February 1897, age 3,
No info on Helen, Rhoda A m Marvel Durham, Ollie b m Sarah Carney.
Some on them live in this area, they all have Joseph Seeney and Sallie
Durham
as their grandparents. This census is showing Ann, so she must have been
Sallie Ann. I haven't had a chance to look these additional children up
on
the census yet.
Joseph Jr m Laura G. unk., Roland (Cappy) m first unk., second Rebecca
Loatman Mosley, Renne m unk Lacey, Mildred b 1911 m Earnest Pierce.
# 3 thanks for the date.
# 4 Thanks for the info, all the Creeks around here are like; Lower
Alloway Creek, Upper Alloway Creek, Stow Creek Township, Dividing Creek
etc.
I wonder which one Authur E was born in. Probably would give you the
general area they were living in 1925.
#5 That's good I located some more info that I haven't entered in my
computer yet.
#6 Irving Pritchett, brother of Sarah Reba Johnson, Raymond, Frank,
Clifford, Goldie, They were children of Alexander and Sadie Beckett
Pritchett. Alexander b in MD 1877, was living in NJ and m to Sadie
Beckett
b 1882, they had 4 children by the 1910 census.
Irving Pritchett b 1901, m 1st Mary Durham dau of Minous & Eliza Durham
Durham. He remarried after the death of first wife, no children by second
m.
He m Emma ? can't think of second wife's last name right now. I sent
Betty her obit, it probably is on the Mitsawokett site.
Lorraine
| |
| |
|Subj: |Re: Harvey Durham Questions |
|Date: |5/8/2002 8:38:55 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: |LFREIDA 15 |
|To: |BettyandRayTerry, spiff@ |
Hi
Sally Seeney versus Ann Seeney, they both have the same birth month and year of birth, the same children. Ollie, Roland, Mildred all have Joseph and Sallie Durham Seeney as their parents on their obit. Roland's is on the Mitsawokett site and his obit lists the surviving sisters. his brothers were omitted but a piece was put in the paper later listing them as Joseph of Salem, and Olie of Bridgeton. I said some of them live in this area, I should have said, some of Rhoda A Seeney & Marvel Durham's grandchildren live in this area and they have Joseph and Sallie Durham Seeney down as their grandparents. None of them have who Joseph Seeney's parents are.
John there is a lot of information on Dave Seeney's homepage, you can get to that site through Mitsawokett.
Frank Pritchett, is Frank C Pritchett and he m Pricilla Durham.
Lorraine
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Seeneys |
|Date: |5/20/2002 8:40:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine') |
|CC: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
Hi, Lorraine.
Just now getting to this message.
I'm wondering if the Helen P. Seeney (b. May 1895), daughter of Joseph and
Sallie / Ann, is the same as the Helen Seeney who married Roland Durham (b.
1896), son of Enoch and Martha Durham...?
And might sister Rhoda A. Seeney (b. Sep 1894) be the same as the Rhoda
Seeney who married Marvel Durham, Sr., son of Jeremiah Durham and Lydia
Munce...?
And might brother Ollie B. Seeney (b. Sep 1896) be the same as the Oley
Seeney who married Sarah Carney, daughter of Horace Carney, Sr. and Ida
Loatman...?
I tried to go to Dave Seaney's website to see if I could find the answers
there, but I can't find anything on these Seeneys there. All I find is his
report on the descendants of Owen Seaney, and it's only one page long....
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 10:39 PM
To: BettyandRayTerry@; spiff@
Subject: Re: Harvey Durham Questions
Hi
Sally Seeney versus Ann Seeney, they both have the same birth month and
year
of birth, the same children. Ollie, Roland, Mildred all have Joseph and
Sallie Durham Seeney as their parents on their obit. Roland's is on the
Mitsawokett site and his obit lists the surviving sisters. his brothers
were
omitted but a piece was put in the paper later listing them as Joseph of
Salem, and Olie of Bridgeton. I said some of them live in this area, I
should have said, some of Rhoda A Seeney & Marvel Durham's grandchildren
live in this area and they have Joseph and Sallie Durham Seeney down as
their
grandparents. None of them have who Joseph Seeney's parents are.
John there is a lot of information on Dave Seeney's homepage, you can get
to
that site through Mitsawokett.
Frank Pritchett, is Frank C Pritchett and he m Pricilla Durham.
Lorraine
-----Original Message-----
From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 10:03 PM
To: 'LFREIDA15@'
Cc: BettyandRayTerry@
Subject: RE: Harvey Durham Questions
Hi, Lorraine.
OK, only 2 short questions and 1 comment on this one....
1. Regarding this:
>> Ruth Seeney dau of Joseph and Sallie Durham Seeney.
>> 1900 Ed 81, Image 7, West Dover, household # 64
>>
>> Seeney, Joseph head, b Jan 1869, age 30, all b in De.
>> Ann, wife, b April 1873, age 27, 4 children 4 living,
>> Helen P, dau, b May 1895, age 6,
>> Rhoda A, dau, b September 1894, age 5,
>> Ollie B son, b September 1896, age 3,
>> Ruth May, dau, b February 1897, age 3,
Hmm, wouldn't you figure--I don't have Joseph Seeney in my database,
either! (Do you know who his parents were?)
Also, you said Ruth was the daughter of Joseph and Sallie, but the census
record has his wife as Ann...???
### Ray & Betty-- I just noticed there is no Seeney page on the
Mitsawokett site (among the Family History Reports).... Has this always
been the case?
2. Regarding:
>> Thanks for the info, all the Creeks around here are like;
>> Lower Alloway Creek, Upper Alloway Creek, Stow
>> Creek Township, Dividing Creek etc.
>> I wonder which one Authur E was born in
Oh. I guess I just thought he was born in a town called "Creek." Duh.
:-) No wonder that sounded funny!
3. Regarding:
>> Irving Pritchett, brother of Sarah Reba Johnson, Raymond,
>> Frank, Clifford, Goldie, They were children of Alexander and
>> Sadie Beckett Pritchett. Alexander b in MD 1877, was
>> living in NJ and m to Sadie Beckett b 1882, they had 4
>> children by the 1910 census.
Is this Frank Pritchett the same as the Frank C. Pritchett who married
Priscilla Durham, daughter of Henry H. Durham and Rebecca Mosley?
OK, almost done with this one!
The end is in sight!
:-)
Take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: LFREIDA15@ [SMTP:LFREIDA15@]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 2:47 PM
To: BettyandRayTerry@; spiff@
Subject: Re: Harvey Durham Questions
Hello
#1 Mary Durham m William (Bill) Morris second , no children by this m, he
died before Mary did.
His Parents: Census Records 1900 E Dover 100, V27,pg 21, line 13
household 325
Taken June 23, 1900 all b in DE
Morris George H , b July 1872 age 27, m
Lydia A wife, b June 1873, age 27 , m, mother of 3, 3 living,
Robert, son, b May 1897, age 3,
William, son, b sept 1898, age 1,
John, son, b September 1899, 8/12,
Mary, aunt, b April 1842, age 51, single.
1910 census ED 6, Image 38, West Dover,De
Morris George, head, age 38, m 13 years, all b De, All mu,
Lydia Ann, wife, age 36, 8 children, 7 living,
Robert , age 13,
William, age 11,
John, age 10,
Eliza, age 9,
Vinnie, age 8,
Oscar, age 7,
Sarah E, age 5.
Notes that I have from Maybelle Bordley in ( ) on each of the
children of above.
(Robert was killed by Lightening in the pasture. William m Mary Durham
Bordley Morris. John m Ethel Webster, they had 2 sons John m Elva
Streets
and Robert (Rab) who never married. Eliza was a spinster, Oscar,
bachelor,
Vinnie m Roy Morgan first, second Arthur ?, Sarah E was a spinster,
Maybelle also has a Lawrence on this list of children.) I didn't pick
him up on the census?
2 Ruth Seeney dau of Joseph and Sallie Durham Seeney.
1900 Ed 81, Image 7, West Dover, household # 64
Seeney, Joseph head, b Jan 1869, age 30, all b in De.
Ann, wife, b April 1873, age 27, 4 children 4 living,
Helen P, dau, b May 1895, age 6,
Rhoda A, dau, b September 1894, age 5,
Ollie B son, b September 1896, age 3,
Ruth May, dau, b February 1897, age 3,
No info on Helen, Rhoda A m Marvel Durham, Ollie b m Sarah Carney.
Some on them live in this area, they all have Joseph Seeney and Sallie
Durham
as their grandparents. This census is showing Ann, so she must have been
Sallie Ann. I haven't had a chance to look these additional children up
on
the census yet.
Joseph Jr m Laura G. unk., Roland (Cappy) m first unk., second Rebecca
Loatman Mosley, Renne m unk Lacey, Mildred b 1911 m Earnest Pierce.
# 3 thanks for the date.
# 4 Thanks for the info, all the Creeks around here are like; Lower
Alloway Creek, Upper Alloway Creek, Stow Creek Township, Dividing Creek
etc.
I wonder which one Authur E was born in. Probably would give you the
general area they were living in 1925.
#5 That's good I located some more info that I haven't entered in my
computer yet.
#6 Irving Pritchett, brother of Sarah Reba Johnson, Raymond, Frank,
Clifford, Goldie, They were children of Alexander and Sadie Beckett
Pritchett. Alexander b in MD 1877, was living in NJ and m to Sadie
Beckett
b 1882, they had 4 children by the 1910 census.
Irving Pritchett b 1901, m 1st Mary Durham dau of Minous & Eliza Durham
Durham. He remarried after the death of first wife, no children by second
m.
He m Emma ? can't think of second wife's last name right now. I sent
Betty her obit, it probably is on the Mitsawokett site.
Lorraine
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: the Joseph Seeneys |
|Date: |5/20/2002 8:44:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Sorry I'm just now getting to this one, but wanted to thank you for the
offer to check up on the Josephs.
At this point, I think it would be too difficult to figure out which one,
based on the Sallie vs. Ann for a spouse name, and not knowing if more than
one of the ones below are the same Joseph....
But thanks anyway!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 8:20 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: Harvey Durham Questions
In a message dated 5/6/2002 8:04:36 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
spiff@ writes:
>
>
> ### Ray & Betty-- I just noticed there is no Seeney page on the
> Mitsawokett site (among the Family History Reports).... Has this always
> been the case?
>
Always. Just did (& do) not have enough information.
We've vacuumed up some Joseph Seeneys from the List & elsewhere --
SEENEY, Joseph
Parent Joseph SEENEY
SEENEY, Joseph
Spouse
Sarah DURHAM
SEENEY, Joseph b Abt 1868 d 8 Dec 1910 Spouse
Sarah GREENAGE
SEENEY, Joseph
Spouse
Betty M. SAMMONS
SEENEY, Joseph B. b 22 Sep 1900 d 29 May 1987 Spouse Laura G.
SEAMAN
SEENEY, Joseph D. Jr.
Parent
Joseph D. SEENEY Sr.
SEENEY, Joseph D. Sr.
Spouse Anna
SEENEY
Let us know which of these you would like to know more about and we will
try
to accomodate your wish. No guarantees on accuracy, of course!
---------------------
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Durhams |
|Date: |5/20/2002 8:49:39 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Thanks!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 11:32 PM
To: spiff@
Cc: carlnew@
Subject: Re: Durhams
In a message dated 5/7/2002 8:17:17 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
spiff@ writes:
> you show William E. Durham (Linda's grandfather) as born 04
> Sep 1893, but I had his birthdate as Sep 1895, per Linda's message to the
> Mitsawokett group on 05 Jan 2002. You also have his birthplace as Marlton,
> Burlington Co, NJ, but Linda stated he was born in Camden, Camden Co, NJ in
> her subsequent message to the list on 09 Jan 2002.
>
> Also, if he really was born 04 Sep 1893, it would conflict with the
> birthdate (Sep 1893) you have for his sister Bertha E. Durham (unless of
> course they were twins).
>
You sure have been working, John. Thanks!
William's 1893 birth date is given or calculated from two records -- SSDI &
marriage record. Joseph Romeo' pegs him at ca. Sep 1895. His birthplace is
given in marriage record. Whether Bertha is a twin is not known and requires
further research.
The sources we received ---
1. Social Security Death Index: William Durham, b. 4 Sep 1893, d. Nov. 1970,
Florence, NJ; 147-09-5903.
2. Durham Families by Joseph Romeo
(for notes and sources, go to the web page cited)
WILLIAM E. DURHAM
Son of BENJAMIN DURHAM_ and SARAH DURHAM, b. in New Jersey ca. Sep 1895, d.
[in New Jersey?] after 1920. Laborer in Pipe Foundry. Married [in New
Jersey?] ca. 1915 to MARY (-----), b. in Delaware ca. 1898, d. [in New
Jersey?] after 1920.
To them were born: Name Sex Birth Death Spouse
ANNA M DURHAM F ca. 1916 after 1920
BENJAMIN R DURHAM M ca. 1918
3. Subj: [Mitsawokett] Mary Durham
Date: 1/24/01
From: edmargebush@ (Ed Bush)
Located the marriage record of Linda Durham Newman's grandparents, William
Edward Durham and Mary Durham, married December 24, 1915, in Camden, Camden
Co., NJ. William 22 yrs.old, born Marlton, NJ. Mary 18 yrs.old, born Camden,
NJ. William's parents are Benjamin Durham and Sarah Durham. Mary's parents
are Robert Durham and Mary Salmons.
---------------------
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Norwood - Miller Families (DE to MI) |
|Date: |5/19/2002 1:37:20 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: BraunA@ |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ |
After looking at the paper closely, the actual date of marriage is Jun 9,
1862. The registration date was Aug 1862.
On Sat, 4 May 2002 00:35:47 -0400 "John C. Carter"
writes:
> On April 19th, TheoLouise wrote:
>
>
> >> I may have said this before but it may be worth repeating.
> >> I have the document of marriage of Alexander Mosley and
> >> his bride Rebecca Ann Miller dated Aug 1862. He is
> >> listed as 26years old of Milford Neck, Sussex County.
> >> His parents were Purnell & Rebecca Mosley.
> >> His bride, Rebecca Ann Miller, is listed as 22years old
> >> from Smyrna-Kenton, Kent County. Her parents were
> >> Isachar and Elizabeth Miller. The ceremony was
> >> performed by I Dickerson of M.E. Church in Frederica, DE.
>
>
> Thanks, TheoLouise!
> However, I'm curious about the date you referenced for the
> marriage.
> Back on 25 Jan 2000, Jean Foster (another member of this
> list), sent the
> following to Betty & Ray Terry and I:
>
>
> >> I have a copy of a record of marriage between Alexander
> >> Mosley and Rebecca Ann Miller dated Jan 9th, 1862 He
> >> was 26 years old and she was 22. His father and mother
> >> were shown as Purnell and Rebecca Mosley. Her father
> >> and mother were shown as Isachar(?) and Eliza Miller
> >> Source- Photostat of Marriage Record Book 1-B-Kent Co
>
>
> I wonder why the difference between the Jan 9th and the Aug
> marriage
> dates...? Could one be the bond for the marriage and the other one
> be the
> actual marriage??
> Thanks,
> John
>
| |
| |
|Subj: |Out of state for a few days... |
|Date: |5/22/2002 9:01:53 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), ned@ ('Heite, Ned'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine'), GENOM@ ('Martin, Gene') |
Hello, all.
Just a quick note to let you know that I am leaving early in the morning
on a spontaneous trip to Ohio for a long weekend, and will be back on
Tuesday afternoon.
Some friends were going, and some other friends live up there, and so when
the offer came up I jumped at the chance!
I will try to catch up further on the emails and genealogy when I
return....
Take care,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] Dave Seaney's page on the Delaware Seeneys |
|Date: |5/22/2002 11:07:20 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: bettyandrayterry@ |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ |
|CC: spiff@ |
Ah, well...... There has been some disagreement about the two wives of James Seeney. Anyone have documentation of either or both marriages?
Dave Seaney's page on the Delaware Seeneys
James born about 1820 and died about 1890. He appears to have been married twice. First to Sarah Grenage on November 2,1844 in Kent County, Delaware. The children were Rhoda, Melvina, John, Elizabeth, Samuel, Sallie and Adeline. In the 1850 and 1860 Census the family is listed as Mulatto.
James had another wife named Sallie Clark. They were probably married in the early 1860s. Their children were Joseph, Frederick H., William and James,Jr. (At about age 82 James, Jr. was described as a patriarchical man with white silky hair, white mustache and a yellowish complexion. He stated he had always heard that he had Indian blood in his ancestry.)
---------------------
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Lillian Mae Wilson |
|Date: |6/1/2002 10:12:57 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
|CC: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
(Hi, Lorraine, please see my P.S. below).
Ray & Betty: Regarding this part of your message (attached below):
>> Lillian Mae Wilson (called Mae), 3/4 sister to
>> Grace Wilson Davis (same father, mothers were sisters),
I show that Grace Geneva Wilson Davis' mother was Bessie Alice Mosley.
Which sister of Bessie was Lillian Mae's mother?
Also, I show that the son Howard Clifton Wilson, Jr. was a FULL brother to
Grace, correct?
Thanks,
John
P.S. I show a Howard E. A. Carter who was a son of William Eugene "Gene"
Carter (b. ca. Dec 1862) and Maude Mae Ridgeway/Mosley. (This info came
from Lorraine in 1998, and she had conflicting information as to whether
Maude was a Ridgeway or a Mosley). Other children included Bertha M.
Carter and John W. Carter. I have no dates for any of the 3 children.
Gene also had a 2nd wife, Isabelle Snowden, by which he had at least one
other son, William Atwood Carter (b. ca. 1905). Do you think this Howard
E. A. Carter could be the same as the Howard Edward Carter who married
Josephine Mosley and fathered Howard Attix Carter (first husband of Lillian
Mae Wilson)? The dates/generations seem to work out.... Lorraine, what do
you think? Are the Howards one and the same?
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 10:01 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: More Sammons Stuff
In a message dated 5/3/2002 6:40:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
spiff@ writes:
> >> "Mae Collins, sister of Howard C. Wilson Jr., reports that
> >> Josephine married 1st a Carter, then a Farley, then Mr.
> >> Carter again, then H.C. Wilson Jr. and lastly Luther
> >> "Jake" Sammons."
>
> WOW!!!
> That's enough to clog the FTM right there!
> :-)
> Anyway, is Mae Collins the same sister (of Howard) as Lillian? Or
did
> they just both marry Collins'?
Can't find that we answered this --
Lillian Mae Wilson (called Mae), 3/4 sister to Grace Wilson Davis (same
father, mothers were sisters), married 1st Howard Attix Carter, son of
Howard
Edward Carter and Josephine Mosley.
Lillian Mae m 2nd Joseph Collins, a foreigner to the Cheswold community.
We have no parents for Howard Edward Carter.
Josephine Mosley's parents -- Thomas B. Mosley and Sarah Elizabeth Mosley.
We cannot connect the parents further back.
We have listed separately Thomas Burton Mosley who married Mary Jane
Driggus.
He was the son of Purnell P. Mosley and Eliza Jane Johnson. We do not
know
if the two Thomases are the same person.
Also, in trying to clear out old messages (like a certain party we know!)
we
see that we did not respond to your clarifications and additions to the
Mitsawokett welcoming message. We echo Ned Heite: Well done!
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |Re: Lillian Mae Wilson |
|Date: |6/3/2002 12:35:44 AM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: |BettyandRayTerry |
|To: |spiff@ |
|File: |Mosley Chas Hen.rtf (132123 bytes) DL Time (115200 bps): < 1 minute |
In a message dated 6/1/2002 10:12:57 PM Mountain Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
I show a Howard E. A. Carter who was a son of William Eugene "Gene"
Carter (b. ca. Dec 1862) and Maude Mae Ridgeway/Mosley. (This info came
from Lorraine in 1998, and she had conflicting information as to whether
Maude was a Ridgeway or a Mosley). Other children included Bertha M.
Carter and John W. Carter. I have no dates for any of the 3 children.
Gene also had a 2nd wife, Isabelle Snowden, by which he had at least one
other son, William Atwood Carter (b. ca. 1905). Do you think this Howard
E. A. Carter could be the same as the Howard Edward Carter who married
Josephine Mosley and fathered Howard Attix Carter (first husband of Lillian
Mae Wilson)? The dates/generations seem to work out....
We have no idea about the foregoing.
Attached is a report on the descendants of Charles Henry Mosley & Annie E. Dean which will answer your questions about Lillian Mae Mosley Carter Collins.
---------------------
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] Death cert of Peter H. Beckett's mother |
|Date: |6/8/2002 12:11:37 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: bettyandrayterry@ |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@, spiff@, JACKLYN001@ |
|File: |PierceHesterHargrossBeckett-DC-1919.tif (531579 bytes) DL Time (115200 bps): < 1 minute |
Hester, wife of Greensbury Beckett and mother of Peter: parents are Elisha Hargross and Leah Sammons. Hargross may be a misspelling of Hargrove.
Hester apparently married a Pierce after Greensbury, no doubt the reason researchers have not found her death certificate before. We have many Pierces in our database but none who match this Hester.
There is no stone in Manship for Hester Pierce/Hester Beckett.
---------------------
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Death cert of Peter H. Beckett's mother |
|Date: |6/8/2002 10:05:29 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On June 8th, Betty & Ray wrote:
>> Hester, wife of Greensbury Beckett and mother
>> of Peter: parents are Elisha Hargross and
>> Leah Sammons....
Hi, Betty & Ray.
Thanks for the death certificate attachment!
One thing I noticed: It gives her birthdate as 23 Sep 1823, when we
previously had an estimated birth year for her of 1832, based on your
message to the list on 18 May 2002 which contained several notes, among
them a message from Joseph Romeo with a transcription of the 1850 census as
follows:
>> 1860 - Delaware, Kent Co., Dover Hundred, 431-427, [08 Jun 1860]:
>> Greenberry Becket, 48, M, M, Farmer, pers $150, Delaware
>> Hester, 28, F, M, Delaware
>> Perry, 14, M, M, Delaware
>> John H, 10, M, M, Delaware
>> George, 7, M, M, Delaware
>> Elijah, 3, M, M, Delaware
>> Peter, 3, M, M, Delaware
Joseph: Can you check if the age 28 for Hester is correct for this
transcription? Could it perhaps have been 38?
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] P.S. Death cert of Peter H. Beckett's mother |
|Date: |6/8/2002 10:10:53 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Aha!
Regarding my just-posted note which stated:
>> Joseph: Can you check if the age 28 for Hester is
>> correct for this transcription? Could it perhaps have
>> been 38?
I was looking at the death certificate a little more, and just noticed
that it gives her age at the time of death as 86. And her death was in
1919. If we subtract 86 from 1919 (actually, from 1918, since she hadn't
yet had her birthday in the year 1919), we get 1832 instead of 1823!!
Looks like they accidentally transposed the birth year numbers.
Mystery solved!
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Probate records, etc. |
|Date: |6/8/2002 9:33:47 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On June 6th, Betty & Ray Terry wrote:
>> We encourage all of the members to contribute
>> probate records, obituaries, extracts of Bibles
>> and other records to us so that we may post them
>> to the site.
Hi, Betty & Ray.
I can't remember if I've mentioned this to you previously, but I have a
link to a transcription of the will of Moses Coker, Sr. (ca. 1774 - Jul
1867) on my website, and also a link to transcriptions pertaining to the
settlement of the estate of James McCarty / Carty, Sr. (d. 1823).
Go to my website, and then scroll all the way down, below all the photo
links, to where it says "Related Links." You will see a link for each
there:
I had transcribed and uploaded these to the Caroline County, MD RootsWeb
site back before there was a coordination to place these estates, wills,
etc. on the Mitsawokett site. (At least, before I was aware of it).
Many RootsWeb locale sites have this ability, for users to post text
transcriptions to a shared site via FTP (File Transfer Protocol). Worth
keeping in the back of the mind, when searching around on the internet.
Someone else may have posted the data being sought.
Anyway, if there is any way that you can link these to Mitsawokett, or to
copy/paste the text into Mitsawokett, you have my permission to do so.
(Oh, just realized there is a disclaimer on the RootWeb site prohibiting
copying. Well, you can still try to link to them. If that doesn't work,
let me know and I'll see if I can dig out my original text files).
By the way, here is a link showing all the files which have currently been
uploaded for Caroline County, MD:
(I haven't even checked yet if any of the Delaware counties, or New Jersey
counties have similar sites....)
ALSO:
I believe Lynn Jackson's site may have some will / probate info posted,
but I just tried to go to her site, and AOL must be down right now or
something-- I can't get to the site:
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |Quick question: Little Union Cemetery |
|Date: |6/8/2002 10:39:52 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn') |
Hi, Lynn and Ray & Betty,
Quick question:
Is "Little Union" Cemetery the same as Immanuel Union (Manship)...?? If not, where is Little Union?
Thanks!
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |Re: Quick question: Little Union Cemetery |
|Date: |6/8/2002 11:32:43 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: |BettyandRayTerry |
|To: |spiff@ |
|CC: |JACKLYN001 |
In a message dated 6/8/2002 10:39:52 PM Mountain Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
Is "Little Union" Cemetery the same as Immanuel Union (Manship)...?? If not, where is Little Union?
Across the road from Fork Branch around the little church. This is the heading for Fork Branch on the web site --
Fork Branch
Cemetery
Near Little Union Church, Dover
Kent County, Delaware
A-Z
---------------------
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |Re: [Mitsawokett] P.S. Death cert of Peter H. Beckett's mother |
|Date: |6/8/2002 11:33:38 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: bettyandrayterry@ |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ |
In a message dated 6/8/2002 10:10:53 PM Mountain Daylight Time, spiff@ writes:
Mystery solved!
Great!!
Thanks for the tip about the Caroline County Rootsweb site to which you have
contributed. What is the connection of this Moses Coker to the Cheswold group?
---------------------
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Norwood - Miller Families (DE to MI) |
|Date: |6/1/2002 10:45:04 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
You wrote:
>> Hi John,
>> Did you get an answer to this?
>> We do not have this marriage in our records.
Yes, there was a response from TheoLouise to the list on 19 May 2002 (next
day after you asked). In it, she wrote:
>> After looking at the paper closely, the actual date of
>> marriage is Jun 9,1862. The registration date was
>> Aug 1862.
However, I just now realized that this STILL leaves a question. The
previous question was between JANUARY 1862 and August 1862. Now,
TheoLouise has given us a JUNE date. Now I guess I have to ask her if she
really meant JUN and not JAN....
*sigh*
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2002 5:41 AM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Norwood - Miller Families (DE to MI)
In a message dated 5/3/2002 10:38:36 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
spiff@ writes:
>
> On April 19th, TheoLouise wrote:
>
>
> >> I may have said this before but it may be worth repeating.
> >> I have the document of marriage of Alexander Mosley and
> >> his bride Rebecca Ann Miller dated Aug 1862. He is
> >> listed as 26years old of Milford Neck, Sussex County.
> >> His parents were Purnell & Rebecca Mosley.
> >> His bride, Rebecca Ann Miller, is listed as 22years old
> >> from Smyrna-Kenton, Kent County. Her parents were
> >> Isachar and Elizabeth Miller. The ceremony was
> >> performed by I Dickerson of M.E. Church in Frederica, DE.
>
>
> Thanks, TheoLouise!
> However, I'm curious about the date you referenced for the marriage.
> Back on 25 Jan 2000, Jean Foster (another member of this list), sent
> the
> following to Betty & Ray Terry and I:
>
>
> >> I have a copy of a record of marriage between Alexander
> >> Mosley and Rebecca Ann Miller dated Jan 9th, 1862 He
> >> was 26 years old and she was 22. His father and mother
> >> were shown as Purnell and Rebecca Mosley. Her father
> >> and mother were shown as Isachar(?) and Eliza Miller
> >> Source- Photostat of Marriage Record Book 1-B-Kent Co
>
>
> I wonder why the difference between the Jan 9th and the Aug marriage
> dates...? Could one be the bond for the marriage and the other one be
the
>
Hi John,
Did you get an answer to this? We do not have this marriage in our
records.
---------------------
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |web site |
|Date: |6/13/2002 9:15:22 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: |BettyandRayTerry |
|To: |LFREIDA 15, RWahoor, spiff@, Ned@ |
In a message dated 5/29/2002 12:12:23 AM Mountain Daylight Time, LFREIDA 15 writes:
I like the name of the web site, do we really have to change it?
Why do we have a web site? All we get are a bunch of lurkers and skulkers. Some of the established "BIG" names like Harry and Preston do not contribute. There are lots of folks out there with tons of data who are keeping it close to the vest.
We did as well or better when we had the 15 or 20 core members helping one another.
The Nanticoke contingent does nothing. We have sent 1/2 doz files to Celeste and when we asked for one in return on the Wrights -- zilch. Same for Sterling and Stacey.
Dumpsville here.
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Death certs |
|Date: |6/3/2002 7:51:31 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
|CC: RWahoor@ (RWahoor@), LFREIDA15@ (LFREIDA15@) |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Well, it sounds like you're on your way to getting it worked out, but the
stuff you're talking about it beyond me. I have no experience with photo
editors, converting image formats, etc.
However, it does seem rather complicated to convert jpeg to tiff then back
to jpeg then to psd and then back to jpeg again!
Boy, you've got your work cut out for you with the viewing of all the
death certificates you mentioned!! Wow!!
Have you forwarded the first death certificate example (Matilda A. Johnson
Street) to Sterling to address the discrepancy regarding her parents?
Thanks, also, for the one of Moses Elwood Coker. There were a couple of
fuzzy spots, but it looked fairly good to me. However, it prints out very
small, and would be difficult to make subsequent copies from....
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 1:38 AM
To: spiff@; RWahoor@; LFREIDA15@
Subject: Death certs
We downloaded a photo format converter today. Attached is the result to
converting from jpeg to tiff in Kodak, then converting jpeg in the new
software, then converting to psd in Adobe & editing, then converting back
to
jpeg.
How is it? Is the image good size? This is the smallest we can make it
without too much fuzziness when the image is increased to 8 1/2 x 11 in the
printer setup. 108K is 3 x larger than we would like.
B&R Terry
Family History: "The Moors of Delaware"
>
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 1:58 AM
To: spiff@; LFREIDA15@; RWahoor@
Subject: Matilda Johnson Street file
Yes, yes, we know we have a lot of messages to answer....but let us finish
this first. In an effort to eliminate some of the guess work we've been
doing, we are looking at all the death certs in Delaware from 1910 to 1955.
Boring thru New Castle County! We have covered 1910 to 1916 so far and
have
copied about 250 certs, not all of which will apply to our families. The
names on many are similar and we do not wish to have to go back to the
microfilms AGAIN!
The methodology we are using is to scan the names of the deceased only in
NC
County, copying those of interest. In Sussex and Kent we look at both the
deceased's name and the names of the parents. This allows us to pick up
females who have married outside of our families in Kent and Sussex. There
are too many people in NC County to do the same. If you have any names in
particular in NC County you want looked at in depth -- let us know. As it
is
if we do 3 films a day (which takes the whole day what with the necessity
to
also copy onto disc, eat & misc. needs attended to, we will have to spend
25
days overall.
We sent you one of the files which caused problems with your computers. It
caused us a problem too but at least the imager could open it. But we
could
not print nor edit with Adobe Photo Shop. So we went back to the FHL --
they
said to use the Kodak Imaging for Windows which comes with Windows--we did
and it works. Just go to START then PROGRAMS then ACCESSORIES then IMAGING
and you are there.
You can covert the file we send to another format with this software.
Unfortunately the TIFF and JPEG files which are created by the machinery at
the FHL are large and we cannot open these files in Adobe to reduce their
size. We have to find a format converter which will allow us to to this.
If
reasonable in size we will be able to link the certs to the listings in the
cemeteries.
Attached is the cert for Matilda Johnson Street. The information from
Sterling about her parents differs from her certificate. Try opening with
Kodak Imaging for Windows.
We would appreciate any ideas you may have to reduce the file size.
B&R Terry
Family History: "The Moors of Delaware"
>
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Norwood - Miller Families (DE to MI) |
|Date: |6/1/2002 11:51:29 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Hi, TheoLouise.
Regarding the message below, thanks for re-checking. However, now I'm
unsure whether you meant to type JAN and not JUN. (The previous
discrepancy was between JANUARY 9th, 1862 and August 1862). Your response
below states that your re-inspection of the paper gives the marriage as
JUNE 9th, 1862, so now we have a disprepancy between June and January....
Thanks,
John
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
On 19 May 2002, TheoLouise wrote:
After looking at the paper closely, the actual date of marriage is Jun 9,
1862. The registration date was Aug 1862.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
On Sat, 4 May 2002 00:35:47 -0400 "John C. Carter"
writes:
> On April 19th, TheoLouise wrote:
>
>
> >> I may have said this before but it may be worth repeating.
> >> I have the document of marriage of Alexander Mosley and
> >> his bride Rebecca Ann Miller dated Aug 1862. He is
> >> listed as 26years old of Milford Neck, Sussex County.
> >> His parents were Purnell & Rebecca Mosley.
> >> His bride, Rebecca Ann Miller, is listed as 22years old
> >> from Smyrna-Kenton, Kent County. Her parents were
> >> Isachar and Elizabeth Miller. The ceremony was
> >> performed by I Dickerson of M.E. Church in Frederica, DE.
>
>
> Thanks, TheoLouise!
> However, I'm curious about the date you referenced for the
> marriage.
> Back on 25 Jan 2000, Jean Foster (another member of this
> list), sent the
> following to Betty & Ray Terry and I:
>
>
> >> I have a copy of a record of marriage between Alexander
> >> Mosley and Rebecca Ann Miller dated Jan 9th, 1862 He
> >> was 26 years old and she was 22. His father and mother
> >> were shown as Purnell and Rebecca Mosley. Her father
> >> and mother were shown as Isachar(?) and Eliza Miller
> >> Source- Photostat of Marriage Record Book 1-B-Kent Co
>
>
> I wonder why the difference between the Jan 9th and the Aug
> marriage
> dates...? Could one be the bond for the marriage and the other one
> be the
> actual marriage??
> Thanks,
> John
>
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Death certificates on CD |
|Date: |6/17/2002 10:23:40 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Wow, thank-you so much!!!
Yes, you're right--technology is great!!!
My address:
John Carter
6083 51st Ave. N.
St. Petersburg, FL 33709-3551
Thanks again, and please let me know if there are any costs I can help with for the CD.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 9:31 PM
To: RWahoor@; LFREIDA15@; spiff@; JACKLYN001@; Ned@
Subject: Death certificates on CD
We are making slooooow progress looking at, and copying, the Delaware death
certificates from 1910 to 1955. We have finished 1910-1921. The Family
History Library here in Salt Lake City has a machine which copies microfilm
images onto CDs.
Ain't technology wonderful?!
When we are finished we would like to send all of you CDs. Please send us
your mailing addresses. This will be probably a couple of months from now.
But you never know.
We will also do the birth and marriage certificates after the deaths.
We will send CDs to anyone else who contributes a significant amount of
information via GEDCOM or word doc to us for inclusion on the web site.
There are so many deaths in New Castle County that we scan only the deceased
person's name. If it is a familiar name we look to see whether there are
other familiar names included on the certificate. There are so many
Johnsons, Jacksons, Morrises, Clarks and Millers, most of whom are unrelated,
that we had to limit our copying somehow.
In Kent and Sussex counties we look at the deceased and the parents of the
deceased. This allows us to pick up our female relatives who have married
persons with surnames not usually encountered in the Mitsawokett and
Nanticoke families.
Anyway, if you have names you want looked for in New Castle County, let us
know and we will look for them.
If any of you now wish an image of anyone dying 1910-1921 let us know and we
will email it to you.
---------------------
B&R Terry
Family History: "The Moors of Delaware"
---------------------
" If you cannot get rid of the family skeleton, you may as well make it
dance." ~ George Bernard Shaw
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Fwd: Help |
|Date: |6/18/2002 5:09:23 AM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On June 17th, Betty & Ray wrote:
>> Can anyone help Debra?
>> Address responses to
>> voyager6655@
>> in addition to the List
>> as Debra is not a member.
>> - - - - -
>> From: "Joan Cline" > Date: Wed Jun 5, 2002 11:39 pm
>> (Etc).
Hi, Betty & Ray.
Although Joan (voyager6655) is not a member of the list now, she was up
until June 6th and then left the group.
She had sent that message to the list as well, before her departure. I
had responded to her, and then she left the group. I wrote to her
off-list, wondering why she had never responded to my message, and she
replied that she had found her family among "the Wyandot tribe."
JCC
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Arthur C & Arthur A. Sammons |
|Date: |5/31/2002 11:23:41 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: RWahoor@ ('RWahoor@') |
|CC: BettyandRayTerry@ (BettyandRayTerry@), lfreida20@ (lfreida20@), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine') |
Hi, Sweetsie.
Sorry to have responded so late with this one, but I'm trying to get
caught up.
(Lorraine, the email address that Sweetsie used for you is different than
the one I've been using.... Are you with Mindspring now? Or still AOL?
I'm cc'ing this message to both)
Sweetsie, I greatly appreciate the new info you've shared from Edith
Sammons Ridgway, but I'm afraid I'm more confused that ever with this
branch!
1. I understand that you are saying that James N. Ridgway should be
listed as a son of Lewis N. Ridgway and Cynthia Durham instead of being a
son of John Henry Ridgway & Minnie Durham. (Betty & Ray: Does this fit
for you? In your message from April 28th you had James listed as a son of
Greensbury Ridgway / Jack and Sarah Virginia Durham....)
However, Sweetsie, you also mentioned the following:
>> I had placed him in the Henry Ridgway (aka: John H
>> Ridgway) & Minnie Durham family when actually, James
>> is the oldest son of their son, Lewis N Ridgway &
>> Cynthia Durham.
...and, later in your message, you gave James' birthdate as 19 Mar 1947.
However, I show Lewis & Cynthia as having married on 02 Sep 1914 (per
message/attachment from Betty & Ray to the Mitsawokett list on 09 Mar 2002
). Sweetsie, you said James was the "oldest son" of Lewis & Cynthia, but
could this really be the case if James was born 33 years after his parents'
marriage? Or did you just mean he was the oldest of the MALE children?
But even that would mean that the parents had nothing but daughters for 33
years before having a son...???
(Also, when I entered the birthdate of 19 Mar 1947 into my FTM, it kicked
out an error message pointing out that James mother would have been more
than 50 years old at the time of his birth, if the dates are correct).
(You listed Cynthia's birthdate as ca. Apr 1889, so that would make her 58
years old at the time!!)
2. I am very confused over the Arthur A. Sammons thing.... You said (per
Edith) that Arthur A. Sammons (nicknamed "Bill") was born May 1892, died 10
Jan 1974, and married #1 Beulah Ridgway, and #2 Rosella Mosley Ridgway.
And had the children Arthur Arlington Sammons Jr. and Bernice Sammons by
his first wife, and the children Luther A. "Jake" Sammons, Helen "Boots"
Sammons and Edith Ethel Sammons by his second wife.
However, my records show that the man who married Beulah and Rosella, and
who fathered those children, was ARTHUR CHARLES Sammons, Sr. (Betty &
Ray--I received this from you, also).
So, is Arthur Charles incorrect? It really should be Arthur A. "Bill"
Sammons, Sr.???
Betty & Ray: Do you have evidence showing his name to be Arthur
Charles???
Also, Betty & Ray: you had his birthdate as 03 Dec 1892, not May 1892....
(Preston Sammons had his birthdate as May 1894). (Preston also had him
listed as Arthur C., not Arthur A.)
3. Sweetsie, you wrote:
>> Bernice Sammons md.
>> #1 James N. Ridgway,
>> #2. James Hands
Did you mean this "James Hands" to be James Handsor? Was part of his name
mis-typed? Betty & Ray had his name as "James Handor Haines" (no "s") in
their April 27th message....
4. Sweetsie, you wrote:
>> Luther Sammons md.
>> Bertha C. Morris
>> #2. Josephine Coker
>> #3. Anna Bea Johnson
I just thought I would let you know that I had asked Betty & Ray about
this #2 wife, who'd they'd listed as Josephine COKE, not Coker. I had
asked them if it was supposed to be Coker, and they replied with the
following:
>> She is not a Coker. She is from Missouri,
>> not related to our families.
>> Source: marriage cert of Josephine and
>> Howard C. Wilson Jr.
4. Sweetsie, you gave Henry (John Henry) Ridgway's birthdate as 1863, but
his tombstone lists it as 01 Mar 1861. Just an FYI. Also, you gave his
wife Minnie's as 1891, but her tombstone has it as 09 Mar 1871. (She
couldn't be born in 1891 and gave birth to son Lewis in Sep 1891).
(I have photographs of both of their tombstones).
OK, that's all for now.
Sorry again it took me so long to reply.
Thanks for all your help!
John
P.S. Was Arthur Arlington Sammons JR. also called "Bill"?? Or was that
only his father, (SR.)?
And, regarding the Mary Lou Dean that he (Jr.) married--is this the same
Mary Lou Dean who was a daughter of Robert C. Dean and Amelia Greenage?
-----Original Message-----
From: RWahoor@ [SMTP:RWahoor@]
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2002 12:17 AM
To: BettyandRayTerry@; spiff@; lfreida20@
Subject: Re: Arthur C & Arthur A. Sammons
John, Lorraine, Betty,
> First of all I want to apologize for placing James N. Ridgway in the
wrong
family.
> I had placed him in the Henry Ridgway (aka: John H Ridgway) & Minnie
Durham family when actually, James is the oldest son of their son, Lewis
N
Ridgway & Cynthia Durham.
>
> I had a chance to talk with Edith Sammons Ridgway today. She is the
daughter of:
> Authur A. Sammons and Rosella Mosley Ridgway.
> Here is what she told me.
> Authur A Sammons, b. May 1892 , d. Jan, 10 1964 De . md. July 24, 1927
De. to #2. Rosella Mosley b/Sept 28, 1910 - d. Nov 7, 1978
both buried at Fork Branch Cem.
> Parents of:
> Edith Sammons md Henry Ridgeway, Sr
> Helen Sammons md. Jackie Johnson
> Luther Sammons md. Bertha C. Morris #2.Josephine Coker
#3. Anna Bea Johnson
> Authur A Sammons Sr. b May 1892 d. Jan 10,1964, md. #1. Beulah Ridgway
> Parents of :
> Authur Arlington Sammons Jr. md Mary Lou Dean
> Bernice Sammons md. #1 James N. Ridgway, #2. James Hands
> _________________________________________________________________
> Some dates were taken from census records and some records from obits.
>
> David Durham b. June 1866 (c) md. Christine Sammons b. May 1869 (c) d
1939
>
> Parents of:
>
> Oliver Durham b. Apr 1886 md. ?
>
> Cynitha Durham - b.Apr. 1889 (c) d. Apr 7,1957, 76 yrs.(ob) --
md. Sept. 2, 1914 to: Lewis N Ridgway, b. Sept 3, 1891 d. Nov 6, 1967 -
86 yrs (ob) Buried Cedar Hill Cem.
> They had 12 children: (Obit only listed 6 children)
> Cynitha Ridgway md Percy Smith
> Naomi Ridgway (never married, but had many children)
> Sarah Ridgway md. Ivy Carter
> Mary Ridgway md. Thomas Pierce
> Christina Ridgway md ?
> James N. Ridgway b. 3/19/ 1947 - d. 1997 md. Bernice Sammons
> All of the children of Cynitha & Lewis are deceased except for Christina
who is still living.
_________________________
> Henry Ridgway b.1863- d. 1919 & Minnie Durham b. 1891-d.1946
> (Henry is also known as John Henry Ridgway)
> Parents of: ( to name just a few)
> Lewis Ridgway - Cynitha Durham
> Tilghman Ridgway - Hester Cuff
> Manford Ridgway - Mary Robinson
> Felix Ridgway - Thelma Brown
> Jerry Ridgway - ?
> Beulah Ridgway - Authur A Sammons
>.Minnie Ridgway - md. Elias Pierce
> Gladys Ridgway m William (Bing) Pierce
____________________________________________________
> Minnie Durham md Henry Ridgway is the dau. of Jeremiah Durham &
Margaret
> Mosley
> Jeremiah & Margaret children are:
> Minnie Durham - Henry Ridgway
> Rebecca Durham Charles Henry Munson - (My grandparents)
> Mary Durham - Samuel Loatman (Anna Loatman Coker grandparents)
> Clara "Cad" Durham - Charles Durham
> Robert Durham - Never married
__________________________________________________
> Lorraine can you add anything else to this that I may have forgotten?
Note: I think the confusion was were we always called Arthur A. Sammons by
his nickname "Bill Sammons".
I hope this clears up a lot of questions you have John.
Sweetsie
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Arthur C & Arthur A. Sammons |
|Date: |6/18/2002 7:54:56 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
|CC: RWahoor@ (RWahoor@) |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Thanks for the info below.
Two comments--
1. Who is Grace Sammons, b. 1912? I probably just can't find her because
I need her maiden name to look her up in my index.
2. You have Luther as b. 05 Feb 1920, in your message attached at bottom.
But shouldn't this be 1930?
Here's what you sent to me on 27 Apr 2002:
>> Children of Arthur Charles SAMMONS and
>> Rosella M. MOSLEY were as follows:
>>
>> 9 i LutherA. "Jake"3 SAMMONS Sr.,
>> born 5 Feb 1930. He married
>> (1) Bertha Caroline MORRIS;
>> (2) Josephine Louisa COKE, ex-wife of Howard C. Wilson Jr.;
>> (3) AnnaBeatrice JOHNSON.
>> 10 ii Helen "Boots"3 SAMMONS.
>> She married Jackie Melvin JOHNSON Sr. .
>> 11 iii Edith Ethel 3 SAMMONS.
>> She married Henry Ephraim "WhiteDeer Smiling" RIDGEWAY .
Thanks,
John
P.S. Sweetsie: Any thoughts on the discrepancy of who the parents of
James N. Ridgway were? Who do we believe--Jake or Edith?? (See the bottom
of the Terrys' message below). Thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 12:20 AM
To: RWahoor@
Cc: spiff@
Subject: Re: Arthur C & Arthur A. Sammons
We, too, get backed up.
Thanks for all the information Rose. Guess Edith & Jake will have to duke
it
out over these two --
In a message dated 5/9/2002 10:16:44 PM Mountain Daylight Time, RWahoor
writes:
> I had a chance to talk with Edith Sammons Ridgway today. She is the
> daughter of:
> > Authur A. Sammons and Rosella Mosley Ridgway.
>
> > Here is what she told me.
>
> > Authur A Sammons, b. May 1892 , d. Jan, 10 1964 De . md. July 24,
1927
> De. to #2. Rosella Mosley b/Sept 28, 1910 - d. Nov 7, 1978
> both buried at Fork Branch Cem.
>
We have a problem with Arthur "A" Sammons --
1. Preston sent a message calling him "Arthur C. Sammons"
2. Arthur's tombstone says "Arthur C. Sammons"
3. Telephone conversation with Luther Sammons 3/16/99: father is Arthur
Charles Sammons.
-------------
(Preston's date for Arthur's birth, below, conflicts with the tombstone,
further below and with the WWI Civilian Draft Registration: Arthur
Sammons,
born 3 Dec 1892 near Dover, Delaware, Black, Registration Kent County,
Delaware.)
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] Isaac
Date: 01/14/2000
From: psam@ (Preston L. Sammons)
Children of Benjamin H.(?) SAMMONS and Margaret RIDGEWAY
Harris b. Oct 1887
Heather b. Oct 1889
Arthur C. b. May 1894
Mary Edna b. Feb 1895
----------
Fork Branch Sammons listings:
SAMMONS, ARTHUR C. 1892 - 1964 FATHER OF LUTHER SAMMONS
SAMMONS, BENJAMIN H. 28 FEB 1859 - 30 MAY 1909 LUTHER SAMMON'S GRANDFATHER
SAMMONS, BERTHA C. 22 SEP 1928 - 19 AUG 1987
SAMMONS, BEULAH M. 1898 - 25 JUN 1926 52
SAMMONS, GRACE M. 1912 - 1989
SAMMONS, JOSEPHINE L. 21 OCT 1922 - 25 MAR 1991 WF LUTHER SAMMONS; WD H
WILSON
SAMMONS, LUTHER 5 FEB 1920 -
SAMMONS, OSCAR P. 1902 - 1961
SAMMONS, ROSELLA M. 1910 - 1978 MOTHER OF LUTHER SAMMONS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
AND ---
In a message dated 5/9/2002 10:16:44 PM Mountain Daylight Time, RWahoor
writes:
> First of all I want to apologize for placing James N. Ridgway in the
wrong
family.
> I had placed him in the Henry Ridgway (aka: John H Ridgway) & Minnie
Durham family when actually, James is the oldest son of their son, Lewis
N
Ridgway & Cynthia Durham.
OH NO -- Edith disagrees with Jake again. Jake says James N. is the son of
Greensbury and Edith says Lewis N.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
----------------------
Is Christina Ridgway available to be interviewed about her brothers, the
ones
missing from Lewis' obituary. She is called Miss Christina Ridgway, so it
appears she did not marry.
Thanks!!
---------------------
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Arthur C Sammons |
|Date: |6/20/2002 8:15:00 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: |RWahoor |
|To: |narid@, BettyandRayTerry, spiff@, lfreida20@ |
Hi Betty, John, Nancy & Lorraine.
Nancy, Can you answer some of these questions about your mother's bro. & sisters? Please help Betty, Ray, John & Lorraine and myself. Put us in the
right area. Thanks Rose
Betty,
I have not be able to catch up with Christina as of yet. I will try to get her phone number if she has a phone. As far as the following, I have Hi-lighted my answers.
Sweetsie
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Thanks for the info below.
Two comments--
John,
1. Who is Grace Sammons, b. 1912? I probably just can't find her because
I need her maiden name to look her up in my index.
#1. Grace Carey was her maiden name.
2. You have Luther as b. 05 Feb 1920, in your message attached at bottom.
But shouldn't this be 1930?
Here's what you sent to me on 27 Apr 2002:
The following is correct!
>> Children of Arthur Charles SAMMONS and
>> Rosella M. MOSLEY were as follows:
>>
>> 9 i LutherA. "Jake"3 SAMMONS Sr.,
>> born 5 Feb 1930. He married
>> (1) Bertha Caroline MORRIS;
>> (2) Josephine Louisa COKE, ex-wife of Howard C. Wilson Jr.;
>> (3) AnnaBeatrice JOHNSON.
>> 10 ii Helen "Boots"3 SAMMONS.
>> She married Jackie Melvin JOHNSON Sr. .
>> 11 iii Edith Ethel 3 SAMMONS.
>> She married Henry Ephraim "WhiteDeer Smiling" RIDGEWAY .
Thanks,
John
P.S. Sweetsie: Any thoughts on the discrepancy of who the parents of
James N. Ridgway were? Who do we believe--Jake or Edith?? (See the bottom
of the Terrys' message below). Thanks.
John, I believe the parents of James N . Ridgway is Lewis & Cynitha Ridgway.
But if you would like contact Nancy Ridgway she is the daug. of Naomi Ridgway,
Naomi is also the daug. of Lewis &Cynitha Ridgway.
Nancy e-mail address is:
I will forward this letter to her, I know she can help.
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 12:20 AM
To: RWahoor@
Cc: spiff@
Subject: Re: Arthur C & Arthur A. Sammons
We, too, get backed up.
Thanks for all the information Rose. Guess Edith & Jake will have to duke
it
out over these two --
In a message dated 5/9/2002 10:16:44 PM Mountain Daylight Time, RWahoor
writes:
> I had a chance to talk with Edith Sammons Ridgway today. She is the
> daughter of:
> > Authur A. Sammons and Rosella Mosley Ridgway.
Typo by me! Should have been Arthur C. Ridgway
>
> > Here is what she told me.
>
> > Authur C Sammons, b. May 1892 , d. Jan, 10 1964 De . md. July 24,
1927
> De. to #2. Rosella Mosley b/Sept 28, 1910 - d. Nov 7, 1978
> both buried at Fork Branch Cem.
>
We have a problem with Arthur "A" Sammons --
No Problem My Dumb Mistake! Typo Arthur C. Sammons it should have been.
1. Preston sent a message calling him "Arthur C. Sammons"
Preston is right.
2. Arthur's tombstone says "Arthur C. Sammons"
Again this is correct.
3. Telephone conversation with Luther Sammons 3/16/99: father is Arthur
Charles Sammons.
Jake is correct!
-------------
(Preston's date for Arthur's birth, below, conflicts with the tombstone,
further below and with the WWI Civilian Draft Registration: Arthur
Sammons,
born 3 Dec 1892 near Dover, Delaware, Black, Registration Kent County,
Delaware.)
Arthur C. Sammons was younger than my father, my father was born 1894 Cheswold. I don't believe Preston has the correct WW1 Draft Registration.
This might have been his father. I believe his dad was around my father's age.
Subj: Re: [Mitsawokett] Isaac
Date: 01/14/2000
From: psam@ (Preston L. Sammons)
John,
I never heard Arthur "Bill" Sammons talk about Harris, Heather or Mary Edna
.Are they his sisters?
Children of Benjamin H.(?) SAMMONS and Margaret RIDGEWAY
Harris b. Oct 1887
Heather b. Oct 1889
Arthur C. b. May 1894
Mary Edna b. Feb 1895
----------
Fork Branch Sammons listings:
SAMMONS, ARTHUR C. 1892 - 1964 FATHER OF LUTHER SAMMONS
SAMMONS, BENJAMIN H. 28 FEB 1859 - 30 MAY 1909 LUTHER SAMMON'S GRANDFATHER
SAMMONS, BERTHA C. 22 SEP 1928 - 19 AUG 1987
SAMMONS, BEULAH M. 1898 - 25 JUN 1926 52
SAMMONS, GRACE M. 1912 - 1989
SAMMONS, JOSEPHINE L. 21 OCT 1922 - 25 MAR 1991 WF LUTHER SAMMONS; WD H
WILSON
SAMMONS, LUTHER 5 FEB 1920 -
SAMMONS, OSCAR P. 1902 - 1961
SAMMONS, ROSELLA M. 1910 - 1978 MOTHER OF LUTHER SAMMONS
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| |
| |
|Subj: |Re: Arthur C & Arthur A. Sammons |
|Date: |6/20/2002 8:44:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: |RWahoor |
|To: |BettyandRayTerry, narid@, spiff@ |
Hi Betty Ray, John,
Now I am totally confused. Lewis and Cynitha raised their grandson Lewis Ridgway also who was Little Cynitha's son, before she married. Again Nancy Ridgway would be able to fill you all in on that family. Nancy's mother was Naomi Ridgway dau. of Lewis & Cynitha Ridgway.
Nancy Ridgway narid@
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] FW: cemetaries (Gouldtown Memorial Park & Fordville Memorial Park) |
|Date: |6/20/2002 3:43:48 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
Hi, all.
The message below is from the Cumberland County, NJ RootsWeb list (message
was "gatewayed" from the message board for Cumberland County).
If you reply, please be sure to CC the sender-- idyle@ --with your
response, as they are not a member of our Mitsawokett list.
Thanks,
John
P.S. Note that Loatman and Gould are listed in her Surnames heading.
-----Original Message-----
From: idyle@ [SMTP:idyle@]
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 2:49 PM
To: NJCUMBER-L@
Subject: cemetaries
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list.
Surnames: Loatman, Gould, Capazzi, DiFrancesco, Lewonick
Classification: Query
Message Board URL:
Message Board Post:
Does anyone know who to contact for information on people buried at
Gouldtown Memorial Park or Fordville Memorial Park? I am also looking for
an address for St. John's United Methodist Church in Fordville (Fairton
Twp) I would appreciate any information.
Thank you.
[Lisa]
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Becketts-Sammons |
|Date: |6/1/2002 11:15:44 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
|CC: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine') |
On 18 May 2002, Betty & Ray Terry wrote:
>> 1860 - Delaware, Kent Co., Dover Hundred, 431-427,
>> [08 Jun 1860]:
>> Greenberry Becket, 48, M, M, Farmer, pers $150,
>> Delaware
>> Hester, 28, F, M, Delaware
>> Perry, 14, M, M, Delaware
>> John H, 10, M, M, Delaware
>> George, 7, M, M, Delaware
>> Elijah, 3, M, M, Delaware
>> Peter, 3, M, M, Delaware
>> In this record, it appears that Greenberry is now married
>> to Hester, and we can infer that Deborah Becket is
>> deceased. If Perry Becket is the only child of Deborah
>> Becket in 1872, George, Elijah, and Peter Becket above
>> are probably the children of Hester.
Does anyone know if the Peter Beckett, above, (b. ca. 1857) is the same as
the Peter H. Beckett (1857-1942) who married Mary E. Reed (1858-1936)...??
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Miller and Greenage |
|Date: |6/1/2002 11:42:15 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On 29 May 2002, Judy Stewart wrote:
>> Could I have your web site address? Do you have
>> any documentation that backs up the parents of
>> Rachel Greenage? Or was it passed down through
>> the family?
Then, on 30 May 2002, Barbara Webster wrote:
>> hi judy sorry for buting in but i found it on the mitsawokett
>> site . under selected probate records elijah consellor 1811.
>> it list rachel as debrix miller 3d dau. wed benjamin
>> greenage. thay have a dau. list ann i am trying to fine out
>> if this is the same ann that wed john h miller. thank you
>> barbara
Hi, Judy.
I'll post my personal website address in my signature file below, but I
don't think I have anything on the Greenages and Millers there, as neither
one was one of my direct lines.
However, Barbara is correct, the info can be found on the Mitsawokett
website. I checked my data, and the Debrix - Rachel parentage has been in
my database since the early days of my entering data, before I had figured
out how to input sources. But I'm pretty sure this all came from research
that others in our group had done, most notably Ned Heite in conjunction
with one of his projects.
If you go to Ned's Biographical Directory...
(follow the link, then scroll down & click on "6. Biographical Directory")
...it lists the following under Deberix Miller:
>> Deberix Miller ( -1840) married Sarah, daughter of
>> Elijah Conselor. When he died in 1840, Abraham Allee
>> and James Robinson inventoried the estate. He mentions
>> land bought of Benjamin Conselor. Their children were
>> Josiah; Elijah; Rachel, wife of Benjamin Greenage;
>> Enoch; Maria, wife of Benjamin Hughes; and Robert.
>> He mentions the children of his deceased daughter,
>> John and Rachel Hughes (Hewes).
I hope this helps.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Thanks!
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: More Miller and Greenage |
|Date: |6/1/2002 11:42:57 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On 29 May 2002, Karen Luzzo wrote:
>> Like I stated earlier, I'm still confused on the
>> Greenage line. My Benjamin Greenage had a
>> daughter Ann b. 1848 in addition to his daughter
>> Sarah and son James. I don't know if there were
>> any other kids in the family or not.
Hi, Karen.
The Benjamin we're discussing (husband of Rachel Miller) had a daughter
Ann (I don't have any dates on her) and a son James. (along with Josiah,
John, Washington, and Frances). I don't show any daughter Sarah, but I
would think the possibility exists that this could be the same family....
Everyone:
Does anyone else show a Sarah as a daughter of this Benjamin Greenage and
Rachel Miller Greenage??
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Araminta Conceler, mother of Araminta Sisco |
|Date: |6/6/2002 5:34:28 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@'), JACKLYN001@ (JACKLYN001@) |
Wow, very interesting that the elder Araminta was a Concealler!
Also interesting is that it shows William Sisco as having been born in
Delaware. Lynn, hadn't it previously been thought that he was from
Pennsylvania?
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 2:00 PM
To: JACKLYN001@; spiff@
Subject: Araminta Conceler, mother of Araminta Sisco
In a message dated 6/3/2002 10:17:50 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
jacklyn001@ writes:
> Aunt Edna clearly remembered the name Sisco and clearly remembered that
> Araminta was named after HER mother and indeed the 1900 census shows an
> older Araminta CISCO living in the same household as Jim K. and Araminta.
> In earlier censuses Araminta is shown living with her mother, Araminta,
and
> her father, William SISCO and several brothers and sisters.
>
By coincidence, today we happened to come across the attached death
certificate for Araminta Sisco Morgan. It gives the maiden name of her
mother. The names are garbled so probably has been overlooked. At least WE
did not have this name before.
B&R Terry
Family History: "The Moors of Delaware"
>
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Early CARNEYS |
|Date: |6/5/2002 5:08:04 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On June 5th, Betty & Ray Terry wrote:
> 2. Robert Carney, "Jr." (b. 13 Aug 1815, d. 18 Jan 1889).
> (name spelled Karney on 1850 census)
> m1. Phebe _______ bef. 1836 (b. ca. 1812, d. ca. 1880)
> m2. Hester Ann Handsley on 04 Jan 1881 (b. ca. 1860, d. _____)
Robert was 45 years older than Hester? Wow!
Yes, Peatie sent me a copy of the marriage record for Robert's 2nd marriage. He was 68 and she was 20 at the time!
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |FW: New administration for Nanticoke tribe |
|Date: |6/10/2002 7:59:59 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), ned@ ('Heite, Ned'), deborahpunger@ ('Pierce, Debbie'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, |
|Lynn') |
For your info.
Got this from the Turtle Talk list.
(This is the first I've heard that the Clarks "were ousted." I'd thought they'd "resigned.")
Just thought you might be interested in the names of the new administration members.
John
P.S. Oh wow, just saw that the message was a response to an inquiry by none other than Firehair!
Signed, John, sipping coffee and making the sign of the fork to ward off....well, I should shut up now.
;-}
-----Original Message-----
From: TurtleTalk1@ [SMTP:TurtleTalk1@]
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 9:33 PM
To: TurtleTalk1@
Subject: [TurtleTalk1] Digest Number 196
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:31:15 EDT
From: RosselloP@
Subject: (no subject)
In a message dated 6/9/02 8:15:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Heritage49 writes:
> Firehair:
> Below is the new administration for the Nanticoke Indian Tribe in Delaware.
> You should know the Clarks were ousted by the tribe in March. The election
> took place last week. Everyone needs to know the following:
>
> Chief James Tyrone (Tee) Norwood
> Assistant Chief Larry Jackson
> Secretary Tara Sammons Doughty
> Assistant Secretary Farrah Norwood
> Treasurer Lillian Wright Morris
> Assistant Treasurer G. Michael Harmon
> Field Agent Dallas (Pete) Wright
> Council Greg Drain
> Fedora Harmon
> Barbara Jackson
> Elloise Johnson
> Joseph Wright, Jr.
>
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Early CARNEYS |
|Date: |6/5/2002 5:09:10 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On July 5th, Karen Luzzo wrote:
>> I have Thomas's will (some place) and also have
>> Robert's will.
>> In the 1850 census for Little Creek I show Thomas
>> with wife Sarah.
>> Children:
>> Levi b. 1825
>> Gustavas b. 1829
>> Thomas B. 1834
>> Morris b. 1836
>> Sarah b. 1835
>> Eliza b. 1842
Hi, Karen.
Thanks for the info!
What were Thomas and Sarah's ages (or birth-years) in that census?
Thanks again,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Early CARNEYS |
|Date: |6/5/2002 5:23:22 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: eolin@ (Eleanor P Olin) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ |
John, I have that Thomas was 73 and Sarah was 40, copied from the 1850
Census. I will double check it the next time that I'm at the archives.
Peatie
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Early CARNEYS |
|Date: |6/8/2002 9:47:26 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On June 6th, Joseph Romeo wrote:
>> Here is another Carney/Kerney/Kearney without
>> known parentage:
>> Debrix Carney (ca. 1809-1865)
>> m. 1830 Eliza LeCount
>> He was married, resided, and died in Philadelphia,
>> but was apparently born in Delaware.
>> Is the will/probate record of Robert Carney
>> (d. 1824) on-line?
Hi, Joseph.
Thanks for the info on Debrix Carney! I do not have Debrix nor Eliza in
my database. Who were their children, or else how do they connect to other
member(s) of our families?
As for the will/probate of Robert Carney being online, not that I know
of....
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] Re: Early CARNEYS |
|Date: |6/10/2002 12:03:36 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: RomeoJA@ (romeoja) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ |
--- In Mitsawokett@y..., "John C. Carter" wrote:
Thanks for the info on Debrix Carney! I do not have Debrix nor Eliza
in my database. Who were their children, or else how do they connect
to other member(s) of our families?
Hi John,
Information on Debrix Carney and Eliza LeCount is in the report
Descendants of James LeCount (1777-1860) which can be found in the
Family Reports section of the Mitsawokett site.
I suspect that James LeCount was a son of Thomas LeCount and Letitia
Durham, but have never found any positive evidence to support the
suspicion.
Best regards,
--Joseph.
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] Re: Pritchett / undertakers |
|Date: |6/18/2002 5:18:27 AM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On June 11th (??), TheoLouise wrote (but it just posted to this morning's
digest of the list???):
>> Dolly and All, who was the Pritchett that was the
>> undertaker in Dover before Calvin Clark? Did
>> Calvin do his apprentiship under Undertaker
>> Pritchett? Were they related in some way?
Then, on June 17th, Dolly wrote:
>> Hi, vaguely remember my Mom and Dad saying
>> something about an undertaker Pritchett maybe
>> involving Torbitts Funeral Home in Dover. I think
>> Calvin Clark also was there. I am not for sure. My
>> dear mother passed last month and no one to ask
>> now. I also am not sure if this undertaker and the
>> doctor I mention in the post are one in the same.
>> I do know that he was referred to as "Prickett" and
>> not "Pritchett". Sorry can not be of much more help
>> right now.
I just quickly glanced in a file, and found a death certificate for
Margaret Mosley Durham, dated 28 Sep 1919, and the undertaker box is listed
with "Pritchett & Torbert, Dover." Place of burial was Manship Cemetery
(now Immanuel Union).
I will try to find some more this evening after I come home from work, but
my recollection is that the name was indeed spelled Pritchett, not
Prickett. (Not sure about any pronunciation).
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: Pritchett / undertakers |
|Date: |6/18/2002 10:17:30 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
As was discussed earlier today--
I found a few more death certificates with the Pritchett undertaker on
them:
Elizabeth Durham Harmon, d. 21 Jun 1914 (signed W.L. Pritchett)
Joel Durham, d. 17 Feb 1909 (signed W.L. Pritchett)
Margaret Munce/Muntz Durham, d. 14 Apr 1895 (signed W.L. Pritchett)
Caroline Carney Durham, d. 24 Dec 1914 (signed W.L. Pritchett)
Isaiah "Zadock" Munce/Muntz, d. 02 Jun 1905 (signed W.L. Pritchett)
along with the one I reported earlier:
Margaret Mosley Durham, d. 28 Sep 1919 (signed Pritchett & Torbert)
Thanks,
John
P.S. Sorry if any are dupes--I think I saw on the Mitsawokett Yahoo site
that someone else had posted some earlier today, but I didn't get a chance
to read the message. But now the Yahoo message archives are down, and I
can't see them....
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Seeneys |
|Date: |6/5/2002 8:23:29 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: lfreida20@ ('Lorraine Johnson-Gregg') |
|CC: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine') |
Hi, Lorraine.
Thanks for the link to Dave Seaney's page. That's a different page than
the one I was familiar with! The one for him that I'd been looking at is
this one:
As you can see, it's different than his AOL page you sent me. I see now
on his AOL page that he has indicated that James Sr. was married twice--to
Sarah Greenage and to Sallie Clark. I'm not sure if I agree with this, but
will have to study it more in-depth....
Anyway, these Seeneys make me crazy! Ray & Betty-- I see you've sent me
a couple of messages / responses regarding the Seeneys as well, but I
haven't read them yet (other than seeing the first sentence or so in the
"preview pane" of my email), because I know they will make me crazy!
As soon as I get caught up some more, I will try to respond further, and
will bring Dave Seaney into the conversation as well.
Thanks again, Lorraine, for the link to Dave's page!
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Lorraine Johnson-Gregg [SMTP:lfreida20@]
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 11:15 PM
To: John Carter
Cc: betty&rayterry@
Subject: Re: Seeneys
John,
Trying to send you page from Dave's site, look under James b 1820, he was m
twice first to Sarah Greenage, second to Sally Clark, I think the Joseph
that is listed under the second wife is the same Joseph that m Sarah/Sally/
Ann Durham. No proof, I haven't seen any other Joseph on the census
records for the same age. Just my thoughts.
Lorraine
date of birth, and the presumption that he had one wife and that she was
> his approximate age), and if John was the youngest son [or, at least
around
> the time of the youngest child(ren) being born], then that points toward
> excluding Robert Carney (1815-1889) as a son of this elder Robert, and
> would indicate that the Robert who was an heir in the probate was a
> different Robert.
> If the Robert in the probate is the 1815-1889 Robert, and if he was the
> elder Robert's son, then the elder Robert (and especially his wife) would
> have to still be of "child-bearing" age in 1815. But would this then
> exclude the elder Thomas??
> Hmm,
> I'll have to think about this some more....
> Anyway, thanks again!
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RomeoJA@ [SMTP:RomeoJA@]
> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 2:32 PM
> To: spiff@
> Subject: Early Carneys
>
> Hi John,
>
> I wanted to provide feedback on the Early Carney thread that you
initiated,
> but as it is all conjecture, I did not want to post it to the list.
>
> I have reviewed the Robert Carney probate packet, with the following
heirs
> listed:
> Elizabeth Carney, widow
> James Carney
> Thomas Carney
> Heirs of Rachel Sisco (late wife of Isaiah Sisco)
> Debrix Miller
> Ann Carney
> Robert Carney
> Miller Carney
> John Carney
>
> I would make the following hypotheses:
>
> The heirs in the list are roughly in order by birth.
> Robert Carney Sr is at least a grandfather.
> Debrix Miller is a son-in-law inheriting on behalf of his wife.
>
> Thomas Carney may be the Thomas Carney listed in the 1850 census at age
73.
> If so, say Robert Sr. was about 20/25 when Thomas was born, then Robert
> Sr. was born ca. 1752/57 and died about age 66/71.
>
> If John Carney is the one that you identified, born ca. 1798 (recalling
> from memory), then Robert Sr. would have been 41/46 at the time of his
> birth. Assuming all children had the same mother, and that the mother
was
> about the same age as the father, it seems right that John Carney is at
the
> end of the list.
>
> Since Rachel's heirs are listed, then Rachel must have died after her
> father but before the distribution. If she died before her father, then
> her heirs would not be entitled to the distribution under intestate laws.
> There is a probate record for Rachel Sisco 1826 on file in Delaware.
>
> The Delaware tax lists are a valuable source of information if you read
> through them year by year. I make the assumption that the first year a
new
> name appears on the list, he has turned of taxable age, which I assume
was
> 21, and infer a year of birth based on that. If the dating proposed
above
> is correct, we would expect a number of new Carneys to appear on the tax
> lists following 1795 or so.
>
> Interesting that a Thomas Carney Jr. shows up in the inventory of the
> estate ... to serve 2 yrs and 9 mos. I wonder what that was about?
>
> Best regards,
>
> --Joseph.
>
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Quick question: Little Union Cemetery |
|Date: |6/9/2002 12:06:47 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
|CC: JACKLYN001@ (JACKLYN001@), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine') |
Oh, wow!!
I never realized there was a different name for each cemetery on each side
of the road! I had always just considered the whole kit and caboodle to be
Fork Branch Cemetery. No wonder the name "Little Union" sounded familiar
to me--it was the name of the church!
Well, the reason I asked is because I'm working on (several) Civil War
pension-document packages I've just recently received. (I hope to post the
pertinent data to the list soon). The veteran whose documents I was
looking at last night--John Hughes--is stated as being buried at Little
Union cemetery. This all fits now, because someone once told me that there
used to be a whole bunch of Civil War veteran tombstones all next to that
church, and if you went by on a holiday there would be a whole lot of
American flags there. Unfortunately, this group was obviously among those
headstones that were discarded, (many tossed into the bordering woods!!) or
otherwise taken away. Only a couple remain next to the church (such as
William Carney's).
But hey, wait a minute! Now that I remember, the whole reason I had
ordered John Hughes' records in the first place is because I had
SEEN/photographed his tombstone last summer when I was in DE!! Duh!! And
I remember (??) his tombstone being ACROSS THE STREET from the church!!!
Were BOTH sides of the road called "Little Union" cemetery at the time??
Or could his grave have been moved?? (Or else maybe they just made a
mistake on his death certificate in the military records....)
Anyway, now it's got me wondering....
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 1:33 AM
To: spiff@
Cc: JACKLYN001@
Subject: Re: Quick question: Little Union Cemetery
Across the road from Fork Branch around the little church. This is the
heading for Fork Branch on the web site --
Fork Branch
Cemetery
Near Little Union Church, Dover
Kent County, Delaware
A-Z
B&R Terry
Family History: "The Moors of Delaware"
-----Original Message-----
From: John C. Carter [SMTP:spiff@]
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 12:38 AM
To: 'Terry, Betty & Ray'; 'Jackson, Lynn'
Subject: Quick question: Little Union Cemetery
Hi, Lynn and Ray & Betty,
Quick question:
Is "Little Union" Cemetery the same as Immanuel Union (Manship)...?? If
not, where is Little Union?
Thanks!
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Quick question: Little Union Cemetery |
|Date: |6/9/2002 7:52:10 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: ned@ ('Heite, Ned') |
|CC: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine') |
Good idea!
Ned do you know the answer to the question below? (Were BOTH sides of the
cemetery now known as Fork Branch once known as Little Union?
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 3:51 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: Quick question: Little Union Cemetery
Don't know. We think this was also called DuPont Cemetery. Why don't you
ask our resident historian, brother Heite?
B&R Terry
Family History: "The Moors of Delaware"
-----Original Message-----
From: JACKLYN001@ [SMTP:JACKLYN001@]
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 2:42 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: Quick question: Little Union Cemetery
It may be just two names for the same place...the way Manship is
technically
Immanuel Union. Fork Branch is the name for the area.... 2 tiny streams
converge in the area.
Lynn
|Subj: |RE: Quick question: Little Union Cemetery |
|Date: |6/10/2002 8:12:34 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: ned@ ('Ned Heite') |
|CC: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), JACKLYN001@ ('Jackson, Lynn'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine'), |
|lenapedelaware@worldnet. (Lenape Indian) |
Thanks, Ned.
Interesting questions.....
Let's start a petition to DELDOT to hire Heite Consulting to investigate!!
:-)
By the way, there are MORE than one Civil War stone there. I took photos
of THREE there last summer. On the "new" (non-church) side of the road,
there are: John Hughes, Alfred Johnson, and Corpl. Allen Reed. I have
just received the pension records for all three of them within the last
week. (Just received Alfred Johnson's today). (Will be posting details to
the Mitsawokett as soon as I can get to it).
Also, on the "old" (church) side, there is at least one Civil War stone
remaining: William Carney.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Ned Heite [SMTP:ned@]
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 5:43 PM
To: spiff@
Cc: 'Terry, Betty & Ray'; 'Jackson, Lynn'; 'Gregg, Lorraine'; Lenape Indian
Subject: RE: Quick question: Little Union Cemetery
First, the place was called duPont station, so it's entirely possible
that someone tagged the cemetery with that name. As for stones thrown
into the woods, there's a project for the Lenape. I have been
intrigued at some of the earlier stones, including one Civil War
stone, in the "new" cemetery. Maybe just the stones were moved.
Clearly the cemetery across the road, next to the school, was a
result of crowding on the little knoll by the church.
... All of which brings up a nagging historical question:
When a church is built, usually it is on top of a ridge. The church
is a symbolic summit, after all. At Fork Branch, the church is on a
low part of the knoll. The summit is apparently vacant.
Does this mean that the summit location was already occupied at the
time the church was built?
If so, by what?
Maybe the church was built in an existing cemetery, all the markers
of which are now gone.
--------------------------------------------
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: [Mitsawokett] RE: Moses Coker, Sr. |
|Date: |6/9/2002 7:59:43 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Hi.
RE:
>> We had been trying to instruct her about highlighting
>> text & then replying so that the recipients would have
>> reference to the context of the question. Had not yet
>> gotten to the answer part...waiting for the lesson to
>> take hold first!
Sorry for spoiling the lesson! :-)
I had seen her posts on the Lenapehoking Long House list, and could tell
that she was a couple of beers short of a six pack! So, I guess I'd
figured any instructions would most likely fall upon deaf ears, as the
saying goes.
(However, I was impressed that she'd found the actual message number!
Unfortunately, pretty much no one else would know what this was...)
JCC
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 4:11 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: [Mitsawokett] RE: Moses Coker, Sr.
In a message dated 6/9/2002 12:21:02 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
spiff@ writes:
> does anyone know how the above Eliza Jackson Coker (b.
> ca. 1814) may tie-in with the other Jacksons of our group??
No, sorry, no clue.
Thanks for the info about Moses Coker. We had seen an apparent
relationship
but avoided jumping to conclusions.
And thanks for your detailed explanation to Carol Cream alibey3@
('hoxter2000') Ahdahmeeah.
We had been trying to instruct her about highlighting text & then replying
so
that the recipients would have reference to the context of the question.
Had
not yet gotten to the answer part...waiting for the lesson to take hold
first!
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: posting / (Carneys) Wint Carney & Joe Carney, Sr. |
|Date: |6/24/2002 9:43:40 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On June 23rd, Joan Johnson Blanchfield wrote:
>> Pop Pop Wint and the Sinclair lady (unknown
>> birth mother of Shallie Marie Carney Sammons)
>> were never married. My Mom says Pop Pop Wint
>> and Lillian NEVER had any children of their OWN.
>> She raised my grandmother as her own
>> child, although she was not her birth mother.
Hi, Joan.
Thanks very much for this info! I'm glad to finally get it listed
correctly in my computer. I'd had two different people (a "Went" Carney
and a "Winter" Carney) in my database, when they were actually the same
person.
By the way, your "Pop Pop" was a brother of my great-grandmother Phebe
Carney Coker Reed.
Take care,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Absolom Saunders & Mary Elmira Cott |
|Date: |6/9/2002 8:50:16 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Interesting.
By the way--
Did you notice that Absalom was only 1 month and 2 days old at his death?? :-)
(According to his birth date compared to his death date, that is!)
born 9-12-1917
died 10-14-1917
(age is given as 64)
Yes, your presumption that Absalom and Abraham are one-and-the-same sounds plausible to me, given the evidence.
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 8:40 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Absolom Saunders & Mary Elmira Cott
Attached is the death cert of Absolom Saunders, as well as a report on the
family of Mary Elimira Cott. It appears that Absolom was counted twice in
the 1880 census, once as a child of George & Debora (as Absolem) and second
as husband of (Mary) Elmira, this time as Abraham.
Absolem's death cert shows parents George & Deby. Informant at death Elmira.
His birth date coincides with both census records +/- a year.
Abraham & Elmira have James Carney living with them, Elmira's child by
husband Robert Carney and us listed as Abraham's step-son.
Looks convincing that Ab is counted twice.
What do you think?
B&R Terry
Family History: "The Moors of Delaware"
> >
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] Harvey & Sarah Carney Morgan / James K. & Araminta Sisco Morgan |
|Date: |6/9/2002 8:57:58 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On 02 Jun 2002, Eleanor "Peatie" Olin wrote:
Harvey Morgan was born in Kent County 4, May 1880
and died Jan. 1969 (from soc. sec. and draft records)
and his wife Sarah E. Carney was born in 1880 and
died in 1960. The only child I have is Catherine V.
Morgan born February 10 1929 and died May 14, 1929.
In Vital Stat #3, 1902 Harvey and Sarah were married
on Feb. 26, 1902. He was the son of James K.
Morgan born 1851 - 1931, buried at Immanuel Union,
Cheswald and Araminta Sammons Nov. 1859 to 25
Aug 1917. I do not mean to infer that they only had the
one child. Eleanor Olin.
Hi, Peatie.
Thanks very much for the dates and info!
As Lynn has mentioned, my records also show James K. Morgan as being married to Araminta Sisco, not Sammons.
As for other children of Harvey and Sarah, I have the following:
Dorothy Morgan, m. Benjamin Franklin Ridgeway, Sr.
Creed Morganm, m. Dorothy "Dot" Mosley
Beatrice Morgan, m. Joseph Luther Reed
Floyd Morgan
Raymond Morgan, m. Mary Virginia Johnson
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |Need advice |
|Date: |6/12/2002 8:57:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine'), RWahoor@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie'), JACKLYN001@ |
|('Jackson, Lynn') |
Hi, Ray & Betty and Lorraine and Sweetsie and Lynn.
As I may have mentioned recently, I have been in the process of ordering
lots of Civil War pension records for a number of our families' ancestors
who served in the Civil War. Many of the packages from the National
Archives have been arriving in the last week or two.
I am slowly making my way through the packets, and trying to gather as
much pertinent family data as possible, but each package has like 100 pages
or more, and you know how difficult it can often be to read that old
handwriting! Anyway, I hope to start posting messages to the Mitsawokett
list soon (??!!), one for each of the veterans, and list as much info as
possible.
I am very excited about one that I just went through this evening--for
Allen Reed, who is buried in Fork Branch Cemetery. (Last year when I was
in Fork Branch, Manship/Immanuel Union, and Gouldtown Cemeteries, I took
photos of all the Civil War stones I could find, with the intention of o
rdering these records).
Anyway, what I have found in Allen Reed's packet is very interesting for a
couple of reasons, but foremost because of his having been a slave in
Maryland prior to the war. My question to all of you is this: Do you
think it will upset anyone if I post the fact that he used to be a slave?
I myself would be proud of such an ancestor, but if there's one thing I've
learned over the years, it's that everyone doesn't always carry the same
pride over certain aspects of their ancestry as I would!
There is much other pertinent info in the file worth sharing, not the
least of which is the fact that he was previously known as Allen MURRAY!
He later changed his name to Allen Reed some time after the war, upon
learning that his father Thomas Murray (who was an illegitimate child of a
Reed, but who had previously gone by his mother's name of Murray) had
changed HIS name from Thomas Murray to Thomas Reed.
Anyway, I'm hoping you will agree that this (including Allen's having been
a slave) will be exciting info to share, but I don't want to upset any
family members who might be disturbed somehow by this revelation.
Do we know if any members on the list are descended from Allen?
Note: Ray/Betty--at least one of your messages in the past (and yours,
too, Lorraine? have to check) had identified him as JOHN Allen Reed, but
there is no mention of the name John what-so-ever in the pension documents,
even with the enormous amount of documentation dedicated toward explaining
that Allen Murray and Allen Reed were one-and-the-same person.
Anyway--WHEW!!! I am SO far behind, and just CANNOT find enough time to
work on all this! I now have 195 messages pending in my Inbox, my office
floor covered with papers, at least a dozen unanswered handwritten letters,
not to mention stuff needing to be done around the house and yard!! And, I
have another trip coming up in two weeks (I'm going to New York City for a
week on June 29th), and will obviously fall even further behind than I am
now!! I have another +/- 100-page pension packet that arrived a day or so
ago, which I haven't even had time to read yet (for Alfred Johnson) and
have at least THREE MORE on their way to me in the mail. And there is so
MUCH news to convey out of the several I've perused through already--!!!
Aiieee-yi-yi!!!!
I need to win the Lotto NOW!!!!!!!! So I can quit my job!!!!
:-)
Anyway, please let me know your advice / suggestions about Allen's slave
status.
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Need advice |
|Date: |6/13/2002 6:10:43 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
|CC: JACKLYN001@ (JACKLYN001@), LFREIDA15@ (LFREIDA15@), RWahoor@ (RWahoor@) |
Thanks, Betty & Ray.
I should clarify that it was to the EMAIL LIST that I was speaking of
posting to, not my website. (Not sure if you knew that already or not).
I wouldn't be able to post them on my personal website, anyway, for two
reasons:
1. My website, being an FTM website, does not allow for the posting of
any extraneous items, only the specific information for which they've
mapped, or provided a "template" for, so-to-speak. In other words, only
the upload of FTM files, posting photos, and related links (other than the
text on the main page). And I still haven't learned enough about HTML,
etc. to be able to create a site from scratch. I've been procrastinating
for over a year creating a site to "give" as a surprise to my nephew, to
post his camping photos, school drawings, etc. Also, the free sites I know
of have limited their allowable memory, in favor of having people pay to
have larger access.
2. Each of these veterans' pension files are huge, +/- 100 pages each.
It would take forever, either to scan them or transcribe them. (Of
course, certain relevant documents could be singled out, but this would
still be time-consuming and take up lots of memory-space).
Anyway, I guess I will just post (in a message to the email list) the
other pertinent details for now, and leave out the slave status (unless
someone asks for more details, and this would be off-list).
As for the current-day Reed descendants, until just a few minutes ago I
was thinking these Reeds were a separate line from the other Reeds I knew
of (such as my Reed cousins from my great-grandmother Phebe Carney Coker
Reed's 2nd marriage after John Clayton Coker died). But I just realized
they are descended from Edward Reed, brother of Allen Reed! Interesting!
Thanks again,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 12:03 AM
To: spiff@; JACKLYN001@; LFREIDA15@;
RWahoor@
Subject: Re: Need advice
In a message dated 6/12/2002 8:57:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
spiff@ writes:
> My question to all of you is this: Do you
> think it will upset anyone if I post the fact that he used to be a slave?
>
The present-day Reed descendants are extremely sensitive with regard to
African ancestry. We were present when Allen (Allen Murray/Reed's
great-grandson) remarked to us about renewing his driver's license last
year,
"They put down that I was a ruddy nigra!...." and words to the effect that
he
knew people in charge and would see to it that that designation was
changed,
so the clerk relented and called him white. Allen's daughters and Allen's
sister Pearl have the same attitude.
Because of the personal relationships we have with them we would have to
withhold this information from the web site.
Truth is truth and should be told. If you wish to post the pension records
to your web site, John, then that is up to you and we have no quarrel with
it.
---------------------
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] RE: posting / (Carneys) Wint Carney & Joe Carney, Sr. |
|Date: |6/27/2002 9:30:44 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
On June 25th, Joan Johnson Blanchfield wrote:
>> Could you please send me any information that you
>> have concerning my Great Grandfather Went. I know
>> very little about him and his family. My Mom has
>> told me a few things but not much. Do you have any
>> pictures of him that you could send me. So I guess
>> we are related. I do remember a Uncle Joe who lived
>> in a small house behind a man who we all refered to
>> as Uncle Archie in Cheswold. That would of been my
>> great grandfathers brother. Correct?
>> Sincerely.
>> Joan Johnson Blanchfield
Hi, Joan.
Sorry, but I don't really have anything on your great-grandfather, other
than his date of birth, and some dates for his siblings. I also had never
seen a photo of him before, prior to the one that Betty & Ray Terry
recently posted to the list.
Here is what I have on the family:
James Perry Carney
b. 21 Jul 1847, Kent Co, DE
d. 23 Aug 1934, Kent Co, DE (according to his death certificate)
d. 24 Aug 1934 (according to his grave marker)
married:
Harriett N. Durham
b. 10 Aug 1851, DE (according to
b. Aug 1847, DE (according to 1900 census)
b. 1851, (according to her grave marker)
b. 20 May 1842/52/62 (according to her death certificate) (the date in the
actual "date of birth" box is 20 May and appears to be either 1842 or
1862--hard to make out if it's a 6 or a 4, but her AGE at death is given as
68 years. Her death date is given as 22 Dec 1920, so if you subtract 68
from 1920 you get 1852, but the number in the "date of birth" box does NOT
look like a 5). (So, go figure!)
d. 22 Dec 1920, Kent Co, DE (according to her death certificate) (grave
marker agrees with date)
Their Children:
1. James Robert Carney
b. 07 Sep 1874, DE
d. 1943, DE
m. Cordelia "Deelie" Mosley (1879-1935)
2. Cora M. Carney (Harry's twin)
b. 20 Sep 1876
d. 1949
m. William Henry Morgan (02 Feb 1882 - 11 Oct 1979)
3. Harry Carney (Cora's twin)
b. 20 Sep 1876
d. unknown
m. Sarah Jane Mosley (Apr 1893 - 28 Nov 1938)
4. Joel Carney
b. 28 Sep 1880
d. 1965
m. unknown
5. Winter Carney
b. 08 Jun 1883
d. unknown
"spouse" _______ Sinclair & m. Lillian Durham
6. Isaac Burton "Bert" Carney
b. 05 Mar 1886
d. 1928
m. Jennie Morgan (1885-1967)
7. Isaiah "Zed" Carney (twin of Phebe)
b. 14 Dec 1889
d. unknown
m. Alice Brown
8. Phebe Carney (twin of Isaiah)
b. 14 Dec 1889
d. 14 May 1966
m1. John Clayton Coker (23 Apr 1884 - 12 Feb 1915) & m2. Isaac Luther
"Ludie" Reed (22 Feb 1887 - 12 Jun 1979)
9. Margaret "Mag" A. Carney
b. 13 Mar 1895
d. 1973
m. Alfred Wilbank Ridgway Coker (07 Mar 1887 - 1935)
10. (Martha??) Carney
b. unknown
d. unknown
I was told years ago that there were 3 sets of twins in the family, but as
you can see above, only 2 sets are clearly defined. Not sure if there
really was a 3rd set, or what the names of them were if they existed. I
believe the child Martha was one of the two, but the person who told me
couldn't remember the other name.
Sorry I didn't have more info on your great-grandfather. If you have
anything you can add to the above, I would greatly appreciate any info.
(Do you have your great-grandfather's death date & place?)
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks,
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |[Mitsawokett] Will be off-line for a week |
|Date: |6/27/2002 9:32:34 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: Mitsawokett@ |
|To: Mitsawokett@ ('Mitsawokett List') |
|CC: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine') |
Hello, all.
Just a quick note to say that I will be off-line for the next week or so,
other than possibly for a few minutes tomorrow.
I'm going to the baseball game Friday night (Rays vs. Marlins), and leave
early Saturday morning for New York City for one week, returning on
Saturday the 6th.
If I can find access to the Internet while in NYC I may check in once in a
while, otherwise I will try to follow-up on any messages when I return. (I
still owe some of you replies!)
Thanks, and have a Happy 4th of July!
John
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: web site |
|Date: |6/13/2002 10:03:14 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
|CC: LFREIDA15@ (LFREIDA15@), RWahoor@ (RWahoor@), Ned@ (Ned@) |
I hear you, man!
:-)
Personally, I lost all respect for Celeste (as well as her mother, Sandy)
when they were "too busy" (or too accustomed to professionally-arranged,
early-agreed-upon scheduling) to attend our gathering at Ned's last summer.
As for the rest of the lurkers and skulkers, I think many of them develop
an quick, avid interest in genealogy, only to have it slowly wane away as
other interests or duties in their lives arise. A few then unsubscribe,
but many may just hang on as a token of their intent to "one day" pick it
up again. Occasionally, some oscillate back and forth between active and
passive status. I do this myself, to a mild extent. Life often insists on
intervening with our hobbies, for some strange reason. :-)
Of course, I am sure there are some who just quietly gather all the shared
info, keeping to themselves, so they can collect data without having to
share any in return. I console myself by telling myself that fate or karma
will deal with them! :-)
Oh well, I have no suggestions for you, other than to hang in there!!
There are many of us core-members out here who certainly appreciate
everything you do!! To be honest, I don't know what we'd do without you!!!
Thanks, and take care,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 11:15 PM
To: LFREIDA15@; RWahoor@; spiff@; Ned@
Subject: web site
In a message dated 5/29/2002 12:12:23 AM Mountain Daylight Time, LFREIDA 15
writes:
> I like the name of the web site, do we really have to change it?
>
Why do we have a web site? All we get are a bunch of lurkers and skulkers.
Some of the established "BIG" names like Harry and Preston do not
contribute.
There are lots of folks out there with tons of data who are keeping it
close
to the vest.
We did as well or better when we had the 15 or 20 core members helping one
another.
The Nanticoke contingent does nothing. We have sent 1/2 doz files to
Celeste
and when we asked for one in return on the Wrights -- zilch. Same for
Sterling and Stacey.
Dumpsville here.
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Jeremiah Jack |
|Date: |6/13/2002 11:06:00 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: EFoster177@ ('EFoster177@') |
|CC: bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray'), LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine'), RWahoor@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie') |
Hi, Jean.
Hope things are going well with you.
Your message from 25 Jan 2000, attached below, contained the following
paragraph:
>> John, I do intend to try to search for more marriage
>> and death records that might clear up some of this
>> mess. I do hope that some of this info helps. Let
>> me know. Oh yes, I found one more thing and don't
>> know where to go from here. On I
>> searched for Jack, Jeremiah in the Civil War Muster
>> Rolls and in the combined match they found 1 match.
>> Surname Jack, Given name Jeremiah Middle initial - ,
>> Company B, Unit 7 - Maryland Infantry,
>> Rank-Induction-Private, Rank - Discharge- Private,
>> Box # 000388, EXCT#0006, Record # 2144. Is
>> there a chance that this is part of the family that is
>> causing so many problems?
I have recently been working on attempting to document many of the members
of our families who served in the Civil War. One of the veterans I've been
re-examining is Jeremiah Jack.
Back in August 2000 I attempted to order his pension records from the
National Archives, based on the unit described in your paragraph (Company
B, 7th Maryland Infantry). The search came back negative, which is not an
infrequent occurrence. This could happen if the veteran did not live
until the laws were passed allowing veterans to apply for a pension, or
perhaps some veterans never bothered applying.
At any rate, I then attempted to order his military record itself, which
in theory should exist for each and every veteran. However, this came back
negative as well. This can happen if a wrong unit is listed, or if a
veteran's name is spelled differently, or probably even from
filing/clerical errors.
Anyway, I'm wondering if you had ever come across any further info on this
Jeremiah Jack, and/or his military unit...? I know that some Ridgeway /
Ridgway family members have been known to use the surname "Jack" as an
alias, for an as-yet-undetermined reason. (Jeremiah's daughter Mary
Priscilla, who married Alexander Mosley, was known by both surnames,
according to my data). Have you ever encountered this Jeremiah being
referred to as Jeremiah Ridgeway / Ridgway? I suppose it wouldn't hurt for
me to submit new requests to the Archives under the name Ridgeway /
Ridgway.... Or perhaps under the first name of James, as noted in your
message below.
Do you happen to know where Jeremiah and Eliza are buried? If so, does
Jeremiah have a military tombstone?
Are you still (if you were) a member of ? I am not, so I'm
not sure about the specifics of the record you cited back in 2000. I
wonder what the "Box#," "EXCT#" and "Record#" refer to...?
Thanks very much for any information you might have on Jeremiah.
Sincerely,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: EFoster177@ [SMTP:EFoster177@]
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 4:55 PM
To: spiff@; AquaBetty@
Subject: Mary Priscilla Ridgeway Mosley
Hello, John (& everyone)
The most that I can add to this mess is very little. I have not been able
to
spend the time that it would take to solve these problems. For what it is
worth I will give you what I have.
1. I have a copy of a record of marriage between Alexander Mosley and
Rebecca Ann Miller dated Jan 9th, 1862 He was 26 years old and she was 22.
His father and mother were shown as Purnell and Rebecca Mosley. Her father
and mother were shown as Isachar(?) and Eliza Miller-------Source-
Photostat
of Marriage Record Book 1-B-Kent Co
Census Records - 1850 Purnell 32 (So b1818)
Rebecca 30 " b1820
Alexander 13 " b1837
1870 Alexander Mosley 35 (So b1835)
Rebecca (mother) 52 " b1818
David 5 "
b1865
Levi 3 "
b1867
Milford Hundred
My theory is 1880 Alexander Mosley 48 (So b1832)
\/ Mary P 30 "
b1850
( His son) David 15 "
b1865
" " Levi 13
b1867
(Their son) * Harvey 2
b1878
(Their dau) Mary L 8 mos " b 1880
(Her dau) Ida Johnson 14 " b 1866
( " ") Eliza Johnson 10 " b
1870
(Her Son) Return Johnson 6 " b 1874
Mary P Jack m (1)-----------Johnson m (2)Alexander Mosley m (3)
--------Thompson
2.
I have a copy of certificate of death for Mary P. Thompson (My great
grandmother) . She died Aug 14, 1924 at age 63 and was buried in Fork
Branch
Cemetery Aug 16,1924. One of the elders in Millsboro told me that Mary
Priscilla was married to her "Uncle Bart" Thompson. The certificate shows
her father as James? V. Jack and her mother as Eliza L. Barker. The Greater
Dover death list shows her father as Jeremiah V. Jack and her mother as
Eliza
Barker. I've been told that Eliza's mother was an indentured servant from
Ireland.
1890 Census Destroyed
East Dover Hundred 1900Census Return Johnson 1875 (so age 25)
Sarah Johnson 1875
" " "
Esther Johnson 1895
5
Annie Johnson 1898
2
Franklin Johnson 1900
1/2 bro to Return [ * Harry Mosley 1886
14
" sis " [ Laura Mosley 1883
17
" bro " [ Parris Mosley 1888
12
* Still checking on Harvey and Harry. Also Emma and Orville
mentioned in your letter
Also on the 1900 Census
Living in the Davis Household in Indian River Hundred were
Mary and her youngest daughter age 10. (Virginia) I heard that Alexander
died and that she was helping with the Davis children since they were now
motherless.
3. I have a copy certificate of death for Mary P's oldest Mosley daughter
named Mary Linda "Lindy" Mosley Sterrett b July 26, 1880 in Delaware and d
Aug 27, 1954 in Delaware. Her Husband was John Albert Sterrett. Her father
was shown as Alexander Mosley and mother's maiden name was Mary P. Jack.
She
is buried in Indian Mission Cemetery in Millsboro.
4. I have a copy of certificate of death for my grandmother Virginia
Harmon.
b Aug 1, 1890 d July 27, 1939. Buried In Fork Branch Cemetery in Dover,
Del. The informant shows her father as Elic Mosley and did not know her
mother's maiden name
( Info ) Virginia " Virgie" Mosley was first married to William Wilson
Sterrett on Jun 26, 1907, He died in an accident in 1910. They had 2
children, William Wilson Sterrett Jr b 1908 and Myrtle Virginia Sterrett b
1909 ( my mother - still living). Her second husband was Ambrose Harmon.
John, I do intend to try to search for more marriage and death records that
might clear up some of this mess. I do hope that some of this info helps.
Let me know. Oh yes, I found one more thing and don't know where to go
from
here. On I searched for Jack, Jeremiah in the Civil War
Muster
Rolls and in the combined match they found 1 match. Surname Jack, Given
name
Jeremiah Middle initial - , Company B, Unit 7 - Maryland Infantry,
Rank-Induction-Private, Rank - Discharge- Private, Box # 000388, EXCT#0
006,
Record # 2144. Is there a chance that this is part of the family that is
causing so many problems?
That's all for now,
Jean Foster
| |
| |
|Subj: |FW: Jeremiah Jack |
|Date: |6/17/2002 11:30:26 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: LFREIDA15@ ('Gregg, Lorraine'), RWahoor@ ('Ridgeway, Rose Marie'), bettyandrayterry@ ('Terry, Betty & Ray') |
FYI, the response from Jean Foster.
JCC
-----Original Message-----
From: EFoster177@ [SMTP:EFoster177@]
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 11:10 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: Jeremiah Jack
Hi John,
I have done very little in the way of solving the roadblocks that I
encountered in the year 2000. I am still caregiver for my mother. I don't
subscribe to Ancestry .com.
any longer. One thing I might mention, my mother says that she never heard
her grandmother referred to anything but Jack. Wish I could help. Please
keep me posted until I can resume my quest. Thank you
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: FW: Seeney's |
|Date: |6/18/2002 5:39:04 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Hi, Ray & Betty.
Sorry (as usual) for being late with my replies.
Regarding your question:
>> John, one of the GEDCOMs we got from you
>> (GEDCOM file from John Carter 3/98)
>> stated that the Rhoda who married Marvel
>> Durham Sr. was the daughter of Samuel Seeney
>> & Mary Ann Muntz.
>> Do you have a source for the original claim?
>> Are we sure enough about Joseph and Sally ANN
>> to change Rhoda's parents from Samuel & Mary to
>> Joseph & Sally?
Hmm, in my database now it shows Rhoda as being the daughter of Joseph
Seeney & Sally / Ann Durham, with a source listed as Lorraine's recent
messages. Unfortunately I can't recall with certainty whether I "pulled"
Rhoda out from being a child of Samuel Seeney & Mary Ann Muntz in order to
place her under Joseph and Sally / Ann. I don't think I did this recently,
though, or I would have undoubtedly asked Lorraine about the discrepancy
when I was asking her all the other Seeney questions. I must have placed
Rhoda under Joseph and Sally / Ann PREVIOUS to the recent discussion.
In looking at the other children's info under Samuel & Mary Ann, I have
dates listed for all of the other children, but only have sources attached
for two. Therefore, this info has been in my database for quite a while
(hence it being on the GEDCOM in 1998), since it was only in the early days
of my data entry that I didn't know how to enter sources. Someone must
have corrected me along the way.
--This just in:
I just dug through one of my original sources of data on this family, one
of several charts sent to me by Sweetsie back in the 1980's, from which I
input a lot of my early data. I thought this might contain the original
placement of Rhoda under Samuel & Mary Ann. A chart I just found does
indeed have Samuel & Mary Ann's family on it, but does not show Rhoda among
their children. This leads me to wonder how I ever placed Rhoda in this
family, if I'd already had this chart since the 1980's....
Oh well, another one of those mysteries, I guess....
Sorry I didn't have more info!
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 3:15 PM
To: spiff@
Subject: Re: FW: Seeney's
In a message dated 5/21/2002 9:45:59 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
spiff@ writes:
> And might sister Rhoda A. Seeney (b. Sep 1894) be the same as the
Rhoda
> Seeney who married Marvel Durham, Sr., son of Jeremiah Durham and Lydia
> Munce...?
>
>
Lorraine said, "Rhoda A Seeney that m Marvel Durham, her children that are
members of the Center have Joseph and Sallie Durham Seeney listed as their
grandparents."
John, one of the GEDCOMs we got from you (GEDCOM file from John Carter
3/98)
stated that the Rhoda who married Marvel Durham Sr. was the daughter of
Samuel Seeney & Mary Ann Muntz.
Do you have a source for the original claim? Are we sure enough about
Joseph and Sally ANN to change Rhoda's parents from Samuel & Mary to Joseph
&
Sally?
We do show Samuel and Mary as having THREE children born in 1894 -- Rhoda,
Elmira & Elinor.
---------------------
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: James Seeney |
|Date: |6/18/2002 6:16:55 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
Hi,
Did you ever hear back from Matt?
Thanks,
John
P.S. However, after Lorraine's May 20th message, in which she sent the
link to Dave Seaney's website, which stated that James b. ca. 1820 was
married TWICE (once to Sarah Greenage, and then to Sally Clark), I'm
totally confused!!! Once I get caught up, I plan to sort through it all
and write to Dave for clarification.
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 2:53 PM
To: MatthewFromChes@
Cc: spiff@
Subject: Re: James Seeney
Hi Matt,
Did we make a mistake when we copied the information from your family book?
We wonder whether the title below should be "Family of James Seeney & Sarah
Clark" not "Family of James Seeney & Sarah Greenage."
This is causing grief amongst some of the researchers because we are
showing
Sarah Greenage as the wife when actually it is Sarah Clark. The son
married
Sarah Greenage. Right?
> Family of James Seeney & Sarah Greenage
>
> 1. Jim Seeney married Sally Greenage
> a. Calvin Seeney married --- Ridgeway
> b. John Seeney
> 2. Reuben Seeney married Mary Dean
> a. Ernest Seeney married Magret Durham
> b. Dean Seeney married Margret ----
> c. Percy Seeney
> 3. John Seeney married Molly Hansor
> a. Elmer Seeney married Arbana Ridgway
> b. Ned Seeney
> c. Annie Seeney
> d. Birdella Seeney married Harvey Durham son of
> Enoch Durham
> 4. Sam Seeney
> a. Lola Seeney married Thomas Mosley
> b. Mason Seeney married Letitia Hughes
> c. Rhoda Seeney married Marvel Durham
> d. Elmar Seeney married William "Sap" Durham
> (note--Elmira)
> e. Sally Seeney Seeney married Horace Mosley
> (Horace actually m Mame)
> f. Mame Seeney
> 5. Maggie Seeney married Leslie Munce
> a. Kenny Munce
> 6. Elizabeth Seeney married George Durham son of Joel
> a. George Durham married Millie Sammons--
> parents of Millie Durham Draine
> (married Ed Draine Sr.) mother of Ed Draine who
> married Loretta Carney
> (James Carney & Ethel Sammons)
> b. William "Sap" Durham married Elmar Seeney
> (note--Elmira)
> c. Elmer "Doc" Durham married Anna Carney dau of
> William Carney
> 7. Adaline Seeney married Charles H. Mosley
> a. Laura Clagget
> 8. Frederick Seeney married Hester Dean
> a. Frederick Seeney Jr. married ? and had one daughter
> b. Herbert Seeney married Kattie
> c. Jim Seeney married Lola Mosley
> d. Harold Seeney
> e. Russell Seeney
> f. Sophia Seeney married Robert Luckett
> g. Morella Seeney married William Durham
> 9. Joe Seeney married Sally Greenage (same one married to
> Jim Seeney)
> 10. Rhoda Seeney
>
---------------------
B&R Terry
| |
| |
|Subj: |RE: Dave Seaney's page on the Delaware Seeneys |
|Date: |6/18/2002 7:55:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time |
|From: spiff@ (John C. Carter) |
|Reply-to: spiff@ (spiff@) |
|To: BettyandRayTerry@ ('BettyandRayTerry@') |
OH!
Am just now getting to this message.
When I get to the digest, I'll be curious to see if anyone responded....
Disregard my earlier message. (Unless we still have no answer, at which point I will still make a note to follow-up with Dave).
Thanks,
John
-----Original Message-----
From: BettyandRayTerry@ [SMTP:BettyandRayTerry@]
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 1:07 AM
To: Mitsawokett@
Cc: spiff@
Subject: Dave Seaney's page on the Delaware Seeneys
Ah, well...... There has been some disagreement about the two wives of James
Seeney. Anyone have documentation of either or both marriages?
Dave Seaney's page on the Delaware Seeneys
James born about 1820 and died about 1890. He appears to have been married
twice. First to Sarah Grenage on November 2,1844 in Kent County, Delaware.
The children were Rhoda, Melvina, John, Elizabeth, Samuel, Sallie and
Adeline. In the 1850 and 1860 Census the family is listed as Mulatto.
James had another wife named Sallie Clark. They were probably married in the
early 1860s. Their children were Joseph, Frederick H., William and James,Jr. (
At about age 82 James, Jr. was described as a patriarchical man with white
silky hair, white mustache and a yellowish complexion. He stated he had
always heard that he had Indian blood in his ancestry.)
---------------------
B&R Terry
................
................
In order to avoid copyright disputes, this page is only a partial summary.
To fulfill the demand for quickly locating and searching documents.
It is intelligent file search solution for home and business.
Related searches
- morgan wallen youtube mix
- youtube morgan wallen
- morgan wallen songs
- youtube music videos morgan wallen
- dean s auto humboldt iowa
- financial advisor associate morgan stanley
- dean graded baseball cards
- guaranteed returns dean volkes
- dean s baseball cards for sale
- edibles etc catering
- linux etc folder
- dean and don s baseball cards