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All:Concerns that I have with the proposed Sign Ordinance revision are listed below. These issues are not in any particular order. I provide relevant ordinance language in italics and my related concerns indented below those. Some concerns draw from several sections of the ordinance, and in some cases I have several concerns stemming from one section of the ordinance. In many cases I offer suggestions, but I have not yet had an opportunity to mark-up the ordinance itself.Thank you,+ Jasonh: 715-735-1881c: 715-587-2276Issue #113.3508, A, 2f – A permit shall not be required for the following signs or activities – Flags, provided that not more than two flags per business site are displayed at any time. Banners are not considered flags for the purposes of this chapter;A number of businesses currently fly more than one flag. The Best Western has three flag poles, each with a single flag. The Rainbow House has three flags (technically two “flags”-American and Wisconsin-and one “banner” about abuse that common sense would call a flag) flying from a single flag pole. Marinette Marine Corporation occasionally has need to fly 5 or more flags (USA, state, MMC corporate, Navy or Coast Guard, and Admiral or Sec Nav flag). Marinette City Hall, while not a business, is flying four flags (technically two “flags”-American and Wisconsin-and two “banners”-POW and arbor day/tree related). All of these instances will presumably require a permit or a variance once the flags are lowered and raised anew (per 13.3502, A – these signs/banners would be repositioned & raised in height, but 13.3502 A has bigger issues, as noted in Issue #4 below). Is this what we want for local businesses? SUGGESTION – remove the limit on number of flags in 13.3508, A, 2f. Issue #213.3501, - “Banner” means any sign intended to be hung either with or without frames, possessing characters, letters, illustrations or ornamentation applied to paper, plastic, vinyl or fabric of any kind. Flags, as defined below, shall not be considered banners for the purpose of this chapter. Any sign of this nature shall be for temporary display.“Flag” means any fabric or bunting, attached along only one edge to a pole or permanent structure, containing distinctive colors or patterns, logos and/or corporate masthead or official corporate title/name, and used solely as an identifier of a government or political subdivision, institution or business, with a maximum area of twenty-four square feet. Banners, as defined above, shall not be considered flags for the purpose of this chapter.“Sign” means: 1. Any device for the visual communication and the structure which supports it, which is used or intended to attract attention of the public, when the display of this device is visible from the city right-of-way. 2. The term “sign” shall not include flags.“Temporary sign” means any type sign not permanently attached to the ground, wall or building, intended to be displayed for a period of time of sixty-seven days or less.“Window sign” means any sign placed inside or upon an interior or exterior window surface, and which is intended to be seen from the exterior of a building.The definition of a “flag” is flawed. Per this definition, a flag is ‘and used solely as an identifier of a gov’t or political subdivision, institution or business’. So, my neighbor has a piece of fabric that says something about Jesus & Love. Is this a “sign”?...per the definition above, YES, and this is further justified by valid purposes stated in 13.3501 A. Is this used solely as an identifier of gov’t, political, institution, or business? No, so not a “flag”. What about a piece of fabric that says “Go Pack Go”? Not a flag per this definition. What about a big Peace sign on fabric? Not a flag. What about the “Confederate flag” on Riverside?...not recognized by the USA as a flag of any government past or present, not a flag of a political party, not an institution, and not a business, so not a “flag”. Why is this important? This is important because we exempt “flags” from being “signs” for the purposes of regulation. These examples above (Jesus, Packers, Peace, & Confederacy) satisfy the current proposed definition of a “sign”. If, however, these are “signs” and not “flags”, then what are they? Well, they are still “signs”, but they are, more specifically, “banners” according to these definitions. 13.3518 lists allowable signs in residential districts. Banners require a permit per 13.3508 A.2.f., but are not allowed in residential districts anyway. Temporary signs are allowed in residential districts, but not banners (which are NOT defined as being a type of “temporary sign,” but rather are said to be only for “temporary display”). Many of these “banners” (which I would say are really flags, but the definitions above make it clear that they are not “flags”) are displayed for periods of time well in excess of 67 days without being removed. Will the city force my neighbor to take down her Jesus & Love banner after 67 days? Will the city force residents to take down Go Pack Go banners? Will the city force a homeowner to take down their “Confederate flag”? I doubt it…so why are we proposing an ordinance that forbids these things when we know that it is unenforceable? (By the way, I have received multiple requests from my constituents asking me how to make the Confederate banner come down—the proposed ordinance would be put to a test here). I see other city ordinances very similar to the one proposed that define a “decorative flag” and make allowances for such decorative flags (or whatever you like to call it -- hobby flag, enthusiast flag, philosophical flag, etc). I recommend that a similar distinction be made here to allow decorative flags in residential districts so that Jesus, the Packers, Peace, the Confederacy, and other decorations are not lumped into “banners” and thereby prohibited in residential districts.The business at the corner of Wells & Main has a large flag pole. That pole supports an American flag and a Gadsden “Don’t Tread on Me” flag (now more commonly thought of as a Tea Party flag). The American flag is well in excess of 24 square feet. As such, it no longer fits the definition of a “flag”. I would wager that it may be in excess of 36 square feet, meaning that it is not allowed even as a banner per 13.3521. The large American flag that is occasionally hung on the exterior wall of City Hall is well in excess of 24 (and 36) square feet. As such, it no longer fits the definition of a “flag” (or “banner”). Can a permit be obtained for the large American flag (by which I mean a common-sense flag, not the proposed definition of “flag”) at Wells & Main? This is unclear to me. Regardless, why should we require a permit for these things if we granted a permit for the big flag pole? Would it not make more sense to regulate flag size based on flag pole size and regulate flag pole size based on lot size and setbacks? This is supposedly how the national flag pole treats the issue (see here --> ). A 24-sq-ft flag flying from the big pole at Wells & Main may be aesthetically inappropriate. “Boilermakers 696 Deserve a Fair Contract”. These signs are in windows all across town and, in many places, displayed outside. I have one on my front porch. These are not “temporary signs” given that they have been up for well over 67 days and were erected with no intent of removing the signs after no more than 67 days. Per the definitions, these are either “banners” or “window signs”. 13.3518 does not allow for banners OR window signs in residential districts. The union signs will presumably go up again years from now (if they are ever taken down) when contract negotiations occur again. Let’s pretend that the owner of a Boilermakers window sign takes it down for a minute, then puts it back in the window. Does this reset the 67 day limit? How long does a banner need to be down before it can be put back?...but, perhaps this is a moot point as window signs and banners are not allowed in residential districts per the proposed ordinance. I support our local union members in their desire to post window signs in their homes related to their union and livelihoods.Why?...why can’t a homeowner permanently hang a sign inside their house window?...using a towel with words printed upon it or any other sort of “banner” as a curtain would count as a “window sign”. A stained glass decoration hanging in a window could potentially be a “window sign”. Then again, the “window sign” definition references “intent”, which is potentially problematic (see temporary sign immediately below). Temporary sign references ‘intent’ to be displayed for no more than 67 days. I did not “intend” to have my Boilermaker sign up for more than 67 days, but it is still up. My intent meets the letter of the law, but the fact remains that the sign has been up for a year or so. If I erect a “temporary sign” with the intent of keeping it in place for less than 67 days, but then leave it up for a year (“yeah, I intended to take it down”), then am I in compliance with the proposed ordinance? I suggest that “intent” be removed and replaced with something like ‘…to be displayed for not more than 67 days…’. How long does it need to be taken down before it can be returned to display? Definition of a “sign” also references intent. If I put a sign up for my own amusement and visible from the city right-of-way, but I don’t intend for anyone to see it, is it not a ‘sign’? Maybe including intent in definitions is ok, but it introduces additional room for interpretation where such room may not be desirable. Temporary sign definition mentions “any type sign” and not “any type of sign”. What is a “type sign”? SUGGESTION – change to “type of sign”.SUGGESTIONS – Expand definition of “flag” to include decorative flags that do not advertise or reference goods or services (allows decorative flags, garden flags, welcome flags, spiritual flags, enthusiast (sports) flags, etc). Alternatively, add definition of decorative flag and exempt those as well. Remove size limit from definition of flag (bigger flags are expensive and this likely discourages people from buying them). Allow window signs everywhere, with no time restriction, but limit the % of area that window signs may occupy. Remove references to intent. Issue #313.3501 “Distracting sign” means an illuminated sign on which artificial or reflected light is not maintained stationary and constant in intensity and color at all times when in use. This includes animated, mechanical and audible signs.“Illuminated sign” means any sign which has characters, letters, figures, designs or outline illuminated by electric lights or luminous tube.“Seasonal sign” means a sign used to identify seasonal commercial establishments, including but not limited to garden centers, Christmas tree lots and fruit and vegetable stands.13.3505, A – No illuminated sign may face an adjacent residential district.13.3513, A – No flashing, blinking or rotating lights shall be permitted for either permanent or temporary signs.Blinking Christmas lights on a two-dimensional nativity scene. My neighbor has something similar in her front yard. By definition, this is a “sign”. By definition, this is a “temporary sign” (if up for only 67 days), an “illuminated sign”, and a “distracting sign” all at the same time. As a “temporary sign” it is allowed in residential districts, but as an “illuminated sign” and “distracting sign” it is not allowed in a residential district. Furthermore, its blinking lights are not permitted for “temporary signs” per 13.3513. Also, just to cover our bases, this is not a “seasonal sign”. The proposes ordinance effectively makes blinking Christmas lights on “signs” illegal, and our definition of a “sign” is very broad. I see other similar ordinances that make allowances for non-advertising holiday lights and displays. Perhaps we should have this language as well.How far away does an illuminated sign need to be from a residential district? The Mariner Theater has illuminated signs that directly face a residential district. Those are good as legal nonconforming signs (13.3502) for now, but what about when they want new signs? Better examples of illuminated signs facing residential districts are likely available, particularly at businesses or churches that are in areas zoned as residential or facing residential districts. The big American flag (that is not a “flag”) at Wells & Main has a light shining on it from the ground. This technically satisfies the definition of an “lluminated sign” and also a “distracting sign” since the big piece of fabric (which is not a “flag”) moves in the wind. We appear to be silent on inflatable signs (?). Are these generally thought to be “temporary signs”, or are they “portable signs”? Jon Sbar said at the council meeting that he wants revision to this section. Such revision is best done at the committee level. SUGGESTION – Jon Sbar to revise section per discussion at Council. Make allowance for holiday lights on holiday displays.Issue #413.3502, A – “Maintenance and damage…If a legal nonconforming sign is relocated, expanded, enlarged, repositioned, raised in height or to an extent exceeding fifty percent of the reproduction or is removed by any means whatsoever…”“Raised in height or to an extent exceeding fifty percent of the reproduction…”? What does this mean? Fill I the missing words --> “…or (what?) to an extent exceeding fifty prevent of the reproduction (what?) or …”SUGGESTION – fix this.Issue #513.3501 “Wall sign” means any sign painted on or attached to and erected parallel to the face of or erected and confined within the limits of the outside wall of any building and supported by such wall or building and which displays only one advertising surface. This definition includes signs composed of individual letters or symbols.13.3535, C – The maximum size of a sign on a business premise is limited to sixty percent of the width of the premises’ facade, not including architectural features, e.g. windows, wing walls, corner details.13.3535, F – A wall sign that identifies a business must be placed on the wall of the structure which the business occupies.There is a fundamental mathematical error here in that the width of a fa?ade is in linear feet, but the size of a sign is typically an area in square feet. Is 13.3535, C, intended to limit the width of a sign, but not its height? SUGGESTION – reword to “The maximum width of a sign on a business…”Many of the downtown storefronts were designed (architecturally) so as to have a “sign” that runs the full width of the front facade above the first floor storefront windows. This ordinance will now require a variance to install signage appropriate to the building design & style. Are we ok with this? Also, what is meant by “not including architectural features”?...is this total width, minus feature width, then times 60%? SUGGESTION – change to 95% or 100% (?). Why was 60% important? 13.3535, F, is worded in such a way as to say that all businesses require a wall sign. SUGGESTION - change “A wall sign” to “Any wall sign”. Issue #613.3501, A “…aid in traffic control and traffic safety, preserve and protect the property value; lessen congestion…”SUGGESSTION - The comma between safety & preserve should be replaced with a semi-colon.Issue #713.3505, D – [rope lights] “…may be used on commercial and industrial buildings for decorative purposes only during the period from November 15 through January 2 of each year…”This prohibits the display of holiday lights for Halloween, Valentine’s Day, etc. for commercial and industrial buildings. Are we ok with that? Also, why are only non-LED types allowed in this section? LED is more energy efficient. Is there something about LED that is unsafe? I am thinking of LED string lights like those on a Christmas tree. Please educate me. SUGGESTIONS – Allow LED. Expand period to include November 15 through January 15 (allows time for removal after New Year). Consider allowing for other major holidays (Halloween, Valentine, St. Pat, Easter, 4th of July, etc)Issue #813.3510, At least fourteen (14) sets of plans or drawings shall be submitted to the City…When my neighbor applies for a variance/permit to display her Jesus & Love or Go-Pack-Go “banner” in a residential district, why does she have to supply 14 sets of plans? When the person at the corner of Wells & Main applies for a permit for his big American fabric (not a “flag” and not a “banner”), will he need to submit 14 sets of plans? This seems onerous for certain types of “signs”, such as “banners”, which expire after 60 days and are allowed only 4 times per year per 13.3521. A realtor will have to submit these same plans for non-residential properties (see Issue # 17 below). SUGGESTION – 14 sets of plans (including survey plan, elevation plan, material samples, and photographs, all drawings to scale) is likely fine for PERMANENT signs. This is too much for banners, temporary signs, realtor signs, etc. Issue #913.3520, A & B – Total Number of Signs . . . Part A is mathematically incorrect. The total amount of sign square footage (what we should call “area”) allowed is defined here as equal to the lineal building front footage (length, in feet) times 1.5 square feet. Lineal feet multiplied by 1.5 square feet equals a value in CUBIC feet (lineal feet x sq-ft = cubic feet). I believe that the intent here is lineal building front footage times 1.5 feet, for a result of square feet. This could also be stated as length of front of building (in feet) times 1.5 (feet), the result being the allowable sign area in square feet. Word this how you like, but the current language of length times “one and one-half square feet” (per the ordinance) equals a volume (cubic feet). Question—is each side of a two-sided sign (like those mounted on poles) counted against this total allowable area? B.1 confuses me. Does a wall sign or an awning sign really need to be “at least thirty-two square feet in area not exceeding the lineal front footage of the business premise multiplied by one and one-half square feet”? Can’t it be smaller than 32 sq ft? My calculation of this value may not match the intent with which this was written. This could be worded more clearly, perhaps with a little example calculated & provided. I am also confused about number of signs. If I have a downtown building, how many signs do I get? I want one big one on the front above the windows. I want a couple in my window (like, “Open” and maybe a poster or two about my products). Maybe I also want a “sign” with my hours of business stickered to the window (a “sign” by the proposed ordinance definition). I’m up to at least 4 “signs” now. I have a back entrance facing a parking lot, so I’ll want a sign or two back there as well. Is that cool? If I have a mannequin in the window with a shirt that says “Be Cool” or “Drink Coke” or with my business name on it, is that also a “sign”? (well, it is a visual communication with supporting structure, intended to attract the attention of the public, and visible from the city right of way, so I guess that counts at least as a “temporary sign” if not some other sort of “sign”). Perhaps a table would be helpful here? ALSO, please consider having the total number of “window signs” not count towards a total sign count limit. Perhaps an unlimited number of window signs should be allowed so long as they take up only some percentage of window area. This would solve the issue of the open “sign”, hours of business “sign”, and clothing on mannequin in a storefront window (is this a “tailored sign”?—see Issue #19 below). An allowance still needs to be made for holiday decorations—if shoe polish is used to turn an entire window into a SALE “sign” or decoration (a snow scene, for example), then what? See also 13.3513, Part C, that prohibits window signs in excess of 20% net window area (is this total number of window signs, or any one individual window sign?). 13.3520, B.5 – mentions informational signs. “Informational signs” are not defined in 13.3501. What is an informational sign? This appear to require a permit per omission in 13.3508, A.2. Are informational signs specifically the drive-thru signs, or is a poster of a new Cheeseburger with price or # of calories in fine print also an informational sign? Please define “informational sign”. Question—does the informational sign(s) count against total sign area in Part A calculation? What about two-sided “entrance” sign and “exit” sign? What about handicap parking signs in parking lot? I suggest that only certain types of signs count toward the total sign area in Part A and Part B of 13.3520. You might also consider defining “traffic & parking signs” (like the entrance, exit, handicap parking, and 20-minute pick-up parking [I think that the time limit spots at Pizza Hut have the Pizza Hut logo on them, but maybe I am mistaken]) and making those exempt from the ordinance.In general, how are double-sided signs considered? Does each side count towards the area limits? I am repeating this question as it warrants repeating. SUGGESTIONS – This section requires significant attention. Suggest that the total number of signs be confined to permanent signs (not ALL signs like window, temporary, banner, etc). Add definitions for “informational sign”, “tailored sign”, “parking/traffic sign”, etc. Lift restrictions on window signs, but limit them to a % of window area. Clarify double-sided issue. Issue #1013.3523 Construction Signs “…Residential district signs shall not exceed six square feet in area…”Construction signs are allowed up to six square feet in residential districts. When Habitat for Humanity builds a house, they will likely want a bigger sign. Hopefully not a big deal.Issue #1113.3520, B. 4 – Gasoline stationsJon Sbar wants changes to this section. These changes are best made at the committee level.SUGGESTION – Jon Sbar to revise as discussed in Council meeting.Issue #1213.3508, A.2.g. A permit shall not be required for…signs located in the interior of any building.How are these interior signs differentiated from a “banner” (for example) that is hanging inside a window facing a city right-of-way? The “banner” requires a permit, whereas the interior sign does not. There is no mention of anything like an “interior sign” in the definitions section. Suggest that you add a definition of “interior sign” that mentions interior signs are not visible from city right-of-way.SUGGESTION – define “interior sign”Issue #1313.3513, B. No sign shall be permitted which moves by any means, except flags.What about “banners” that wiggle a little bit in the wind? See also definition of a “flag” (and what is NOT a “flag”). Pole signs vibrate in the wind (maybe not much, but they do move). Is the intent here to prohibit owner-influenced or active (vs. passive) motion (or some other term of your choice)? SUGGESTION – add language stating that banners and other temporary signs shall be adequately restrained to prevent wind-driven motion and/or the free motion of any edge. NOTE - This will effectively make those feather-shape (quill pen – like) banners and pennants (which are defined by ordinance as being allowed to move in the wind) illegal, which may not be what we really want. Alternatively, suggest restricting signs that have mechanically driven motion (?). What was the intent of 13.3513 B? Issue #1413.3528, J.. Electronic changeable message sign copy is limited to displaying no more than three separate colors at any time.Jon Sbar was seeking changes to animated signs at the council meeting on January 3. Those proposed changes will impact this section as well, but this may not have been mentioned at the council meeting (?). Also note typo…too many periods after the letter ‘J’ in 13.3528, J.. Same for K.. (and A.., B.., C.., D.., E.., F.., G.., but not H. or I.). Speaking of ‘K..’, this will also require changes as recommended by Jon Sbar. SUGGESTION – Jon Sbar to make changes per discussion at Council meeting. Fix punctuation.Issue #1513.3524, F. [Election] Signs over twelve square feet are not permitted.Maybe this is fine, but I note that many Marinette citizens have erected election signs much larger than this, often made of one or more full sheets of plywood (32 square feet & up). Are we ok with this and will it be enforced?Issue #1613.3518 A.. B.. C.. D.. E.. F..Too many periods after each letter. Also, what about a Bed & Breakfast in a residential district? There is no allowance here for a permanent sign like those already in place at the Lauerman House, Riverfront House, or the Victorian Inn. This disadvantages any new B&B. The former Chang Tailor had a permanent sign in a residential district. Kirby vacuum cleaners has a permanent sign. Many of these include illumination (including church signs in residential districts). Why is there no allowance for permanent signs for in-home businesses? What about non-conforming use properties like a gas station in a residential district? SUGGESTION – Make sign allowance for in-home and residential district business. Cross reference with allowable uses defined in zoning sections. Issue #1713.3525 A, B, & CIs 6 square feet (2’ x 3’, for example) typical for a residential real estate sign? Is twelve square feet (3’ x 4’) typical for a non-residential real estate sign? I see many in town on commercial & industrial properties that are the size of a sheet of plywood or bigger (32-sq-ft & up). Do we really want to require a permit for all real estate signs in non-residential districts as required by 13.3525, A? The realtor will have to supply 14 copies of plans, with elevation drawings, etc, for their 12-sq-ft sign (which is presumably temporary anyway). Why? How do double-sided signs measure here? A 5-feet setback is required for the sign, but what about houses where five feet are not available? I own a rental house that has a wall on the lot line and a front yard that may well not afford a 5-foot setback for a real estate sign (I haven’t measured). Some exemption for properties that cannot meet this requirement is warranted.SUGGESTION – If a “FOR SALE” sign is larger than a certain size, then require a permit. Do not require a permit for ANY/ALL “non-residential” sale signs. Clarify double-sided issue.Issue #1813.3501 “Projected Light Sign”, others (?)Projected light signs are defined, but are not mentioned (insofar as I can see at the moment) anywhere in ARTICLE III – PERMITTED SIGNS BY TYPE or elsewhere. Maybe I am mistaken. Suggest that sign type definitions are reviewed and cross-referenced against regulations to ensure that all defined sign types are addressed, either explicitly, or by grouping with other sign types. Also, Marquees are entirely prohibited anywhere per 13.3513—why? If the Best Western were to put their name on their cantilevered carport (it is supported entirely by the building’s wall), then it now becomes a “marquee” per the definitions. What is the reason for prohibiting marquees? SUGGESTION – given as that we define “projected light” signs, am I to assume that we wanted to regulate their use? Please propose regulations. Why are marquees totally prohibited?...do you recommend restricting their use over public right-of-ways (sidewalks), but allowing on private land (?). Maybe allow over public sidewalks too? Issue #1913.3501 – “Portable sign” means any sign not permanently attached to the ground or a building. Tailored signs, sandwich board signs and balloons are not included in this definition, except as provided under MMC 13.3539.What is a “tailored sign”? This requires a definition. Please review proposed ordinance in its entirety for similar references to undefined sign types. There is also not a definition for “sandwich board signs”, but I have some sense of what these are (unlike “tailored sign” – try doing a search engine check of this…in my brief search I see nothing that helps clarify “tailored sign”). What is the intent behind excluding sandwich board signs from portable signs and why are “portable signs” entirely prohibited anywhere per 13.3513? This relates to Issue #18 above in which sign types are defined, but not all of those defined types are called out anywhere else in the proposed ordinance. SUGGESTION – define “tailored sign”. Consider defining “inflatable sign” (if somebody bolts one to a building or the ground, it is no longer portable). Propose regulations. GENERAL SUGGESTION – review proposed sign ordinance with a local sign design/fabrication shop. ................
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