Borne the Battle - Home - VAntage Point



Borne the BattleEpisode # 130Robert Freedman – Army Veteran, ProfessorHosted by Tim LawsonSpecial Guest Interviewer Zach Wheeler(Text Transcript Follows)[00:00:00] OPENING MONOLOGUE:Timothy Lawson (TL): Wednesday, January 16, 2019. This is Borne the Battle brought to you by the Department of Veterans’ Affairs. I’m your host, Marine Corps Veteran, Timothy Lawson. Tomorrow, the Secretary of Veterans’ Affairs, Robert Wilkie, will be putting on a “State of VA” address. It will be live-streamed from VA central office, available at VA’s website, our YouTube page, but most easily, our Facebook page, VeteransAffairs [Link to VA’s Facebook page]. If you go to that Facebook page, the- the video will be live no later than 12:55, and the secretary is queued to go on at 1 p.m. The event will go as long as two hours and he will be addressing a handful of things such as the state of VA, community resources for Veterans, department priorities, and he will address questions from the last community townhall he did. You can watch live and register at a link that is available on our blog, blogs. [Link to VA’s blog page]. In the top stories, you will see the state of VA blog post. In there, directions on how you can register to watch it live through Webcaster or again, simply go to VeteransAffairs [Link to VA’s Facebook page] to see the Facebook live feed there. So, today’s interview is a unique one as a intern of mine decided to sit down with one of his professors and conduct an interview akin to the way we conduct most interviews here on Borne the Battle. Zach Wheeler is studying International Studies. He’s in his second year at Johns Hopkins University. He interviews his professor, Professor Robert Freedman, who served during Vietnam, who talked to us about what a great leader he had while he was in the military, his decision to join the military, his philosophy on giving back to his country two years of service, and his career in academia, especially being a professor at West Point. Enjoy.[00:02:25] Music[00:02:30] PSA:Man 1: I served in Vietnam.Man 2: I served in World War II.Woman 1: I served in Afghanistan.Man 1: And VA serves us all.Man 2:No matter when you served.Woman 1:No matter if you saw combat or not.Man 1:There are benefits for Veterans of every generation.Woman 1: See what VA can do for you.Narrator:To learn what benefits you may be eligible for, visit [Link to VA’s page]. That’s va.g-o-v.[00:02:56] Music[00:03:01] INTERVIEW:Zach Wheeler (ZW): Hello and welcome to the Borne the Battle podcast. Today I have the pleasure of interviewing Professor Robert Freedman. Robert Freedman received his commission from Army ROTC in 1962 at the University of Pennsylvania and had a three-year deferment to go to graduate school at Columbia University. Professor Freedman took the Infantry Officers’ Basic Course in Fort Benning, Georgia. His first position was as Heavy Weapons Platoon Leader in an infantry company in Fort Hood, Texas. Professor Freedman was promoted to 1st Lieutenant and then Captain in short order and became company commander serving in Fort- Fort Hood 1st Battalion, 41st Infantry from September 1965 to February 1967. He was then transferred to the U.S. Military Academy at West Point where he taught courses on history and Russian history. He left the Army in July of 1970. Professor Freedman has pursued a career of academia ever since and is currently an adjunct professor of Political Science at Johns Hopkins University. I’m currently taking his awesome course, Russian Foreign Policy. Professor Freedman, thank you for joining us on the podcast.Robert Freedman (RF): My Pleasure.ZW: [Laughing.] Alright. So just to get us started, Professor Freedman could you talk to us a little bit about your decision to join the United States Military in the first place?RF: Yeah, it was I think, a pretty basic decision. My philosophy is if the country protects you while you’re growing up, you owe it at least two years in return to help protect the country. So, that was my decision to volunteer for ROTC.ZW: Okay. And great. So, I said that you deferred to go to graduate school in Columbia. What was that like?RF: Well, you know, I was working on my doctorate at Columbia. And then Vietnam blew up and they said, “Lieutenant we need you right now, especially since you’re an infantry Lieutenant.” ZW:Right.RF:So where did I get sent? I got sent to Fort Hood, Texas.ZW: Oh wow, oh good. Thank you, Professor. Do you think you could tell us about a close friend or a leader or someone that you looked up to while you were in the military?RF: Yeah. My battalion commander was Colonel Ayers, later went on to become a general. He was my immediate commander at- at Fort Hood. So, I learned a lot about leadership and planning from him.ZW: Oh, wow. Great. And Professor, what prompted your position, er transition out of the military? What, what were you–RF: I basically- I knew from the beginning I was a volunteer. And as I said, my philosophy was give the country at least two years because it protected you when you were growing up. But I knew I wanted a career in academia. So, I thought, five years probably was enough time to go to my main career.ZW: [Laughing]. And so how did you know you wanted a career in academia? What –RF: I’ve- I’ve- Ever since I was in high school, I decided I was interested in international relations. –ZW: Right. –RF: And the best way to do that is to become a college professor.ZW: Right. [Laughing] To be a college professor. Well, I’m also looking into becoming a college professor. So, maybe we could talk about that at some point, Professor. –RF: Good.ZW: And so, your doctorate. What exactly was that?RF: My doctorate was in International Relations and Russian Studies, sort of a joint doctorate. I did my dissertation on how the then-Soviet Union used its eco . . . economic pressure to try to get political obedience from Communist China, Yugoslavia, and Albania.ZW: Oh, wow. Okay. Very complicated. Some- some stuff that we’re maybe learning in class now. And could you- could you maybe describe what exactly, like what, what did a day look like in the 1st battalion at first- at Fort Hood?RF: Well, obviously you get up, you go, you see that nothing bad has happened –ZW: [Laughing]RF: The night before. You check in and you check the roster and you see if anybody is sick or injured, whatever. Then you go for the planning of the day. Now it may be maneuvers. We were an armored infantry battalion. So, occasionally we would go maneuvering with tanks. I was in charge of armored personnel carriers and you’re supposed to maneuver armored personnel carriers with tank, at least according to the book. But not all of my commanders followed the book and thought tanks were number one and armored personnel canarers- carriers were only number two.ZW: Interesting. So that’s what a typical day looked like?RF: Yeah. Maneuvering or maintenance. Maintenance was very important. I also served a stint as maintenance officer in the battalion. So, I got to appreciate why you need to maintain your car, your armored personnel carrier, – ZW: Right.RF: Your artillery, very much, yeah.ZW: Okay, cool, Professor. And could you maybe talk a little bit about your time as a professor at West Point? What was that like?RF: Well it was a very pleasant experience for me. First of all, you have the top of the Army there. I mean, the very- the students were very good. The- my fellow professors were very good. And it was a chance to interact with people who later went on to made major careers in the military or in civilian life. I mean, Dana Mead, who unfortunately just died, was the exec officer for a while. And he went on to make a wonderful career as a CEO. And- and other people, some of whom I’ve been able to keep in contact with.ZW: Wow. So a good experience tops [Inaudible] –RF: But I should tell you my best experience –ZW: Yeah. [Laughing]RF: My best experience. There was a lot of social pressure on the professors to play basketball. –ZW: [Laughing] . . . Oh no way!RF: And since I love to play basketball, even though I’m short, you know, you . . . Every time I came in, you know, you could always be sure that instead of lunch, we would play basketball. And that was —ZW:That—RF:a very positive experience.ZW: That’s awesome. No dunking for you, Professor? [Laughter]RF: No dunking for me, sadly.ZW: Ok, cool. Very interesting. Professor, could you maybe talk a bit about your career in academia after you left the military? What are some- I know you have a ton of different personal stories- but what are some of your favorites? And feel free to talk as long as you want, or as short as you want. –RF: Well, the things that I do, which are about half on Russia and the former Soviet Union, about half on the Middle East, has given me the opportunity to travel a lot. And I was on a number of U.S. government delegations, both to Moscow and Beijing. I was also on a Brookings delegation, as you may know, to Tunis to talk to Yasser Arafat back in 1989 to see if he was serious about saying he wanted peace with Israel. ZW: Right.RF:So, I mean, this is a real plus for being in academia.ZW: Right. And do you feel that maybe any of the skills that you learned in the military, do you feel that that transferred to kind of this more diplomatic process? Or do you feel they’re kinda separate spheres? Or –RF: Well, basically, they’re separate spheres but once you learn leadership –ZW: Right.RF: And there’s good leadership in my ROTC courses. And again, you learn leadership, literally, OJT, on the job –ZW: [Laughing]RF: If you’re an officer. But in dealing with people, getting them to go along with what you want, is a skill. ZW: Right.RF: And I think that was a skill I tried to hone in the military.ZW: Right. And so that is maybe your . . . This question that I have is: Describe an experience or skill that you gained in the military. So that would be your kind of- your take on it. RF: Yeah. It’s leadership. It’s leadership and how to get people to do what you want them to do—ZW:Right.RF:in a nice way.ZW: And you think the military is the really best way to learn that or other opportunities –RF: It’s certainly one of the ways and it’s a good way to learn it.ZW: Alright, okay. Thank you, Professor. Well I have, I have this last question but I- I’m also really interested about. I don’t know, could you give us maybe, like, a personal anecdote of one of your diplomatic missions? Do you have any . . . [Laughing] . . . fun stories, Professor?RF: Well, again. Probably my most fun story, if- if that’s the word to use –ZW: ‘Fun’, right.RF: Was sitting with Yasser Arafat in Tunis. At that point, PLO was in exile after the Israelis had driven ‘em out of Beirut. –ZW: Mhmm.RF: And they finally came around to saying, “Yes, we’re willing to recognize Israel, live in peace with Israel, accept the U.N. Resolution 242.” So, I remember, there about 50 of us, sitting around the room when the discussion started. And I remember raising the point with Mr. Arafat saying that, “Look, with your statement, you’ve convinced the left wing of the Israeli Labor Party. What you have to do is convince the right wing of the Labor Party. Then it’s Yitzhak Rabin and at least some of the Centrists in the Likud party like Olmert, Ehud Olmert, and others. And then, maybe, we could make progress.” And he looked at me and said, “Oh, all you’re doing is worrying about Israel’s interests. Look at all my problems. I have to worry about Hamas, I have to worry about Syria, etc.” Then we broke for dinner. And it was only within the Palestinian movement, there’s Fatah and a lot of other groups like the Popular Front, Popular Front for Liberation, As-Sa’iqa and others. It was only his own people. So, he changed like a chameleon, he was a real actor –ZW: [Laughing]RF: He comes up to me and says, “Bob, I know where you’re coming from, but look, you have to understand my problems, too.” And since I’m Jewish and I keep kosher, he got me a nice kosher meal for dinner. So, we had a lovely discussion and from that, I came away convinced that the guy is an actor, but at least he should be tested. So, I wrote an article for the New York Review of Books called My Dinner with Arafat –ZW: [Laughing]RF: Laying out what I thought should be done. –ZW: Oh, wow.RF: That’s probably the most interesting anecdote I can share with you.ZW: That- that is very interesting, Professor. And what about your time in- You went to China? At a point, you said?RF: Yeah. Yeah. I went to China. We- Right on the eve of the Gulf War. So, the Veterans here who might- might have served in the Gulf War, First Gulf War, might be interested. There’s a delegation of academic experts. That point, China was just getting into Middle Eastern studies. –ZW: Right.RF: So, they asked us to bring our syllabi and- and all that stuff with us, so we could help train their experts. What books to read, how to organize courses, etc., ‘cause they were just getting interested in the Middle East. ZW: Wow.RF: We got there in relatively early January of 1991 and the Gulf War was about to erupt. And the Chinese, being a autocracy, a centralized government, had mobilized all the universities to write papers on, you know, –ZW: Wow.RF: What would Iran do? What would Israel do? How would the Russians react? So, each of us had our own specialty. One was a Palestinian specialist. I took care of Israel and the Russian end of things. Another was an Iranian specialist. So, 18 of the 19 institutions we visited in mainland China, all they wanted to know was, what- what are each of these groups gonna do so they could write their papers, –ZW: [Laughter]RF: Give them to the central [Laughing]- give them to the central government. ZW:Right.RF:Only the 19th one, in Xi’an of all places, was interested in- in the academics of it.ZW: Oh wow. Cool. Well, thank you, Professor. Once again. And maybe an interesting line of conversation is, if there are- I’m sure there are some Veterans or, you know, ROTC students that are currently listening to this podcast. What would you say to those students or Veterans if they wanted to get interested in a career in academia? What- what is a interesting or a proper path they could take to achieve that?RF: Well, you need to go on and get a PhD. That’s critical. I was very fortunate because while I was stationed at West Point, I was able to finish the dissertation I had started at Columbia. –ZW: Right.RF: While I had my deferment. So, you need to get a PhD and you need to get some publications. ZW: Right.RF: And if you can start writing early, that’s the best thing.ZW: Right. Okay. Well, great Professor. And maybe, just to close us out, do you have any- do you have any Veterans or Veteran organizations that you’re excited about currently or do you think you’d like to learn more?RF: Well, you know, I’m- As a Veteran myself, although nobody ever fired at me and I never fired at anybody, fortunately. You know, Veterans are critical, and I think the government should pay even more attention than it’s paying now to Veterans’ issues. ZW: Right.RF: I mean, we had scandals in the Veterans departments, which were extremely sad. Hopefully, these are being cleaned up but, you know, we owe a lot to the Veterans. And it’s very, very important the country takes care of them.ZW: Right. And, just from my perspective, Professor, I- working for the Department of Veterans Affairs for the past couple of months- it really does seem like, they’re really, you know, active, engaged individuals. Really trying there. In the words of my boss, Mr. Lawson, “Trying their darndest to, to really fix out those problems and make sure that every Veteran is taken care of.”RF: Yeah, well that’s critical. ZW: Yeah, alright. Well, thank you very much, Professor. It’s been a lovely conversation.RF: My pleasure. ZW:Sure.RF:Thank you for inviting me and good luck to all the Veterans out there.[00:15:50] Music [00:15:54] PSA:Man: My grandfather served in World War II. Spending time with him were the best memories of my life. I became a physician at VA because of my grandfather so I can help others like him. I can’t imagine working with better doctors or a more dedicated staff. I’m fulfilling my life’s mission with the help of my team and thanks to these Veterans. I’m proud to be a doctor at VA and proud to honor my grandfather every day. Search VA careers to find out more.[00:16:23] Music [00:16:27] CLOSING MONOLOGUE:TL: Thank you to Mr. Freedman for his time, for sitting down with Zach, and big props to Zach for conducting a- a lovely interview. Well executed, well done, sir. I think you’ve done a fine job of contributing here on Borne the Battle. Just a reminder, the Secretary’s townhall is tomorrow, January 17th starting at 1 p.m. You can go to blogs. [Link to VA’s blog page] to find the blog that tells you all the different ways to watch. But, I recommend simply going to VeteransAffairs [Link to VA’s Facebook page]. The Facebook live feed will go live at 12:55 p.m. The Secretary will be on at 1 and he will be talking about community resources for Veterans, the state of VA, department priorities, and will be addressing questions from the last community townhall. This week’s Medal of Honor citation reading is for the late Joe Jackson. Joe recently passed. I thought it’d be appropriate to recognize him here on this week’s Borne the Battle with a reading of his Medal of Honor citation. Service is U.S. Air Force. Division, 311th Air Commando Squadron, Da Nang, Republic of Vietnam. Conflict, Vietnam War. Year of honor 1968. Citation reads: “For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. Lt. Col. Jackson distinguished himself as pilot of a C-123 aircraft. Lt. Col. Jackson volunteered to attempt the rescue of a 3-man US Air Force Combat Control Team from the special forces camp at Kham Duc. Hostile forces had overrun the forward post and established gun positions on the airstrip. They were raking the camp with small arms, mortars, light and heavy automatic weapons, and recoilless rifle fire. The camp was engulfed in flames and ammunition dumps were continuously exploding and littering the runway with debris. In addition, 8 aircraft had been destroyed by the intense enemy fire and 1 aircraft remained on the runway reducing its usable length to only 2,200 feet. To further complicate the landing, the weather was deteriorating rapidly, thereby permitting only 1 air strike prior to his landing. Although fully aware of the extreme danger and likely failure of such an attempt, Lt. Col. Jackson elected to land his aircraft and attempt to rescue. Displaying superb airmanship and extraordinary heroism, he landed his aircraft near the point where the combat control team was reported to be hiding. While on the ground, his aircraft was the target of intense hostile fire. A rocket landed in front of the nose of the aircraft but failed to explode. Once the combat control team was aboard, Lt. Col. Jackson succeeded in getting airborne despite the hostile fire directed across the runway in front of his aircraft. Lt. Col. Jackson's profound concern for his fellow men, at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty are in keeping with the highest traditions of the U.S. Air Force and reflect great credit upon himself, and the Armed Forces of his country.” We honor his service. That wraps up Episode 130. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen. I know there’s a lot of options out there for entertainment, so I do appreciate you spending your time, listening to these powerful stories told by our nation’s Veterans. You can follow us on Facebook at VeteransAffairs [Link to VA’s Facebook page]. Be sure to tune into tomorrow’s townhall event. 1 p.m. January 17th. Follow us on Twitter [Link to VA’s Twitter page: ] and Instagram [Link to VA’s Instagram page: ] @DeptVetAffairs. I’m Timothy Lawson, signing off.[00:20:16] Music out ................
................

In order to avoid copyright disputes, this page is only a partial summary.

Google Online Preview   Download