Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 16:27:37 GMT
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 16:27:37 GMT
From: Al
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Free UML tools?
Are there any free UML tools out there?
Al
[ Part 3: "Included Message" ]
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 20:36:29 +0200
From: Morten K. Hansen
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Free UML tools?
Al wrote:
> Are there any free UML tools out there?
>
> Al
>
>
>
Hi Al
Try:
Or if you use JBuilder get the 'JRefactory' OpenTool.
Regards
Morten
[ Part 4: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:35:49 +0200
From: Robert Chevallier
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Free UML tools?
> Al wrote:
>
> > Are there any free UML tools out there?
> >
Have a look on argo argouml. (open source) or
(derived from it)
Also there is a free but limited edition of Together/J cf
(Class diagram only)
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 10:09:19 GMT
From: Israel Raj T
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.gui, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools, comp.lang.java.advocacy,
comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java
Subject: JDE : a rather fine Java development tool.
Want to try JDE ?
Wait no more !
JDE is installed automatically if you install any of the recent Xemacs
distributions ( and answer 'yes' at the appropriate prompt / dialog
box setting)
It is loaded automagicaly when you use xemacs to open any .java file.
You can configure it from the menu JDE -> Projects-> General
The latest JDE is available at .
It is lightweight compared to JBuilder / Forte and their ilk.
If Emacs is your spiritual practice of choice, then check out JDE.
(M-x
all-praise-emacs(TheFather)-Xemacs(TheSon)-and-JDE(TheWholyGhost))
[ Part 3: "Included Message" ]
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 12:55:37 +0200
From: Artur Biesiadowski
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools, comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: JDE : a rather fine Java development tool.
Israel Raj T wrote:
> It is lightweight compared to JBuilder / Forte and their ilk.
With two page java file opened it is about 11M versus 37M for jbuilder.
With larger projects difference should be smaller (as most of memory for
jbuilder is jvm overhead). Anyway, both numbers are not big when you
look at today development machines.
And emace/JDE has no type-aware member completion nor argument type
hints, which for me put it into
'yet-another-editor-with-hilite-and-compile' category.
It would be enough to post it to softwaretools newsgroup.
Artur
[ Part 4: "Included Message" ]
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 11:19:22 GMT
From: Israel Raj T
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools, comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: JDE : a rather fine Java development tool.
On Sun, 07 Oct 2001 12:55:37 +0200, Artur Biesiadowski
wrote:
>And emace/JDE has no type-aware member completion nor argument type
>hints, which for me put it into
>'yet-another-editor-with-hilite-and-compile' category.
I am not quite sure that I understand.
Is this what you mean ?
From the documentation:
"jde-complete-at-point
This command is bound to C-c-C-v-..
It finds all the fields and methods that complete the name at point.
It then inserts the first potential
completion in the buffer at point. Repeatedly typing C-c-C-v-. causes
the JDE to cycle through the other potential completions. If the
completion is a method name, the command completes the method name and
displays the method signature in the minibuffer."
[ Part 5: "Included Message" ]
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 14:13:16 +0200
From: Artur Biesiadowski
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools, comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: JDE : a rather fine Java development tool.
Israel Raj T wrote:
> I am not quite sure that I understand.
> Is this what you mean ?
>
> From the documentation:
> "jde-complete-at-point
> This command is bound to C-c-C-v-..
> It finds all the fields and methods that complete the name at point.
> It then inserts the first potential
> completion in the buffer at point. Repeatedly typing C-c-C-v-. causes
> the JDE to cycle through the other potential completions. If the
> completion is a method name, the command completes the method name and
> displays the method signature in the minibuffer."
Kind of. But if I type
String str = "aaa";
str.s
and press C-c-C-v it completes to
str.startsWith(
and pressing combination again will not lead me to str.substring(, which
I meant. I would expect some kind of visual dialog with possible
completions, not blindly jumping to first alphabetically matching and
not allowing to change it later.
But this is just a pitty implementation, functionality is there - so I
withdraw my claim about not having type aware completion. Still missing
parameter hints (seems to hint only about first of possible overloaded
methods).
Artur
[ Part 6: "Included Message" ]
Date: 09 Oct 2001 11:55:45 -0400
From: Paul Kinnucan
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools, comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: JDE : a rather fine Java development tool.
Artur Biesiadowski writes:
> Israel Raj T wrote:
>
>
> > I am not quite sure that I understand.
> > Is this what you mean ?
> > From the documentation:
> > "jde-complete-at-point
> > This command is bound to C-c-C-v-.. It finds all the fields and
> > methods that complete the name at point.
> > It then inserts the first potential
> > completion in the buffer at point. Repeatedly typing
> > C-c-C-v-. causes the JDE to cycle through the other potential
> > completions. If the
> > completion is a method name, the command completes the method name and
> > displays the method signature in the minibuffer."
>
> Kind of. But if I type
>
> String str = "aaa";
> str.s
>
> and press C-c-C-v it completes to
> str.startsWith(
> and pressing combination again will not lead me to str.substring(,
> which I meant. I would expect some kind of visual dialog with possible
> completions, not blindly jumping to first alphabetically matching and
> not allowing to change it later.
> But this is just a pitty implementation, functionality is there - so I
> withdraw my claim about not having type aware completion. Still
> missing parameter hints (seems to hint only about first of possible
> overloaded methods).
First, please be aware that the release of the JDE that is shipped
with XEmacs is very out-of-date. The completion functionality included
with the latest production version of the JDE, JDE-2.2.8, provides two
modes of completion, one mode (C-c C-v C-.) pops up a menu with all
the possible completions; the other mode (C-c C-v .) inserts the first
possible completion at the cursor. You can then cycle through the
remaining completions by repeating the completion combo. Note that the
default keystroke combo is selected to avoid conflicts with
preexisting Emacs packages. You can easily rebind the completion
commands to function keys or any other keys you please. When the JDE
inserts a method completion, it displays the signature of the method,
including return type and exceptions thrown, momentarily
(user-defined) at the bottom of the screen. Completion works for any
classes defined in the current classpath, including inner classes. In
addition to completion, the JDE includes many other code generation
features, including user-customizable automatic generation of import
statements, javadoc comments, class skeletons, interface
implementations, method overrides, etc. For more information, see
Finally, please note that it is generally unwise to make claims in
newsgroups about what a software product CANNOT do, especially if one
is not a regular user of that package. You often end up having to eat
your words.
- Paul
(JDE's author)
[ Part 7: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 06:06:30 GMT
From: Israel Raj T
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools, comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: JDE : a rather fine Java development tool.
On 09 Oct 2001 11:55:45 -0400, Paul Kinnucan
wrote:
>
>- Paul
>(JDE's author)
JDE is the One True Java Way :-)
JDE seems so feature rich that I am still learning some of its nicer
features.
BTW, why dont you email the xemacs team and ask them to distribute a
more recent version of JDE as the default.
( I have just emailed then myself)
[ Part 8: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 06:22:10 GMT
From: Israel Raj T
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools, comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: JDE : a rather fine Java development tool.
>On 09 Oct 2001 11:55:45 -0400, Paul Kinnucan
>wrote:
>
>>
>>- Paul
>>(JDE's author)
This is the message I sent to the people listed on the xemacs site as
being responsible for the packages.
Dear Steve and Mike,
many thanks for the excellent job that you and the xemacs team have
been doing.
I particularly find JDE ( a most excellent Java mode ) useful.
However, the version of JDE that is distributed with the Solid Vapour
release is fairly old and does not reflect JDE's current abilities.
I managed to install the latest version of JDE myself but I understand
that many others find the instructions a trifle intimidating. I wonder
if it would be possible to distribute the latest version of JDE as
standard with the next release of the One True Editor :-)
[ Part 9: "Included Message" ]
Date: 10 Oct 2001 12:42:40 -0400
From: Paul Kinnucan
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools, comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: JDE : a rather fine Java development tool.
Israel Raj T writes:
> On 09 Oct 2001 11:55:45 -0400, Paul Kinnucan
> wrote:
>
> >
> >- Paul
> >(JDE's author)
>
> JDE is the One True Java Way :-)
>
> JDE seems so feature rich that I am still learning some of its nicer
> features.
>
> BTW, why dont you email the xemacs team and ask them to distribute a
> more recent version of JDE as the default.
> ( I have just emailed then myself)
The XEmacs maintainers require that all packages distributed with
XEmacs be first checked into the XEmacs CVS repository via a secure
shell connection. Because of its size, checking in the JDE is an
extremely time-consuming task that takes many hours and requires an
intimate knowledge of the XEmacs makefiles. Hence, the XEmacs
maintainers are reluctant to do the check in themselves. I tried once
to do the checkin myself and ended up spending several evenings
mastering the art of updating a CVS repository via a secure shell
connection from Windows followed by four more evenings of actually
submitting the JDE changes, without in the end getting the JDE to
build successfully, using the XEmacs make files. I don't have that
kind of time to spend. I have asked the XEmacs maintainers to waive
the CVS residency requirement in the JDE's case to no avail. So now
the JDE portion of the XEmacs distribution gets updated only when an
XEmacs maintainer has some extra time, which is once in a blue moon.
- Paul
[ Part 10: "Included Message" ]
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 15:01:46 -0700
From: Aryo Ronggolawe
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.gui, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools, comp.lang.java.advocacy,
comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java
Subject: Re: JDE : a rather fine Java development tool.
[ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ]
[ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
On Sun, 07 Oct 2001 03:09:19 -0700, Israel Raj T wrote:
> Want to try JDE ?
> Wait no more !
>
> JDE is installed automatically if you install any of the recent Xemacs
> distributions ( and answer 'yes' at the appropriate prompt / dialog box
> setting)
>
> It is loaded automagicaly when you use xemacs to open any .java file.
> You can configure it from the menu JDE -> Projects-> General The latest
> JDE is available at .
>
> It is lightweight compared to JBuilder / Forte and their ilk.
>
> If Emacs is your spiritual practice of choice, then check out JDE.
> (M-x
> all-praise-emacs(TheFather)-Xemacs(TheSon)-and-JDE(TheWholyGhost))
Can you provide some tutorial links to guide those people who use
JBuilder, Forte, IBM VA and others so they can learn more quickly.
[ Part 11: "Included Message" ]
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 22:28:30 GMT
From: Israel Raj T
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.gui, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools, comp.lang.java.advocacy,
comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java, alt.religion.emacs
Subject: Re: JDE : a rather fine Java development tool.
On Sun, 07 Oct 2001 15:01:46 -0700, "Aryo Ronggolawe"
wrote:
>Can you provide some tutorial links to guide those people who use
>JBuilder, Forte, IBM VA and others so they can learn more quickly.
No. Absolutely not.
Emacs good
Xemacs better
Xemacs + JDE perfect ...
(M-x all-praise-emacsTheFather-XemacsTheSon-and-JDETheHolyGoat)
The devil will get you if you do not use the One True Editor.
Seriously though try:
( jb stuff)
If you really have the time to learn JB, Forte and VA....
"You are a better man than me, Gunga Din"
[ Part 12: "Included Message" ]
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 00:32:31 GMT
From: Brian P Templeton
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.gui, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools, comp.lang.java.advocacy,
comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java, alt.religion.emacs
Subject: Re: JDE : a rather fine Java development tool.
No.
(bestp Emacs-21) ==> t
;; (That's (best? Emacs-21) for Schemers.)
(+ Emacs-21 Gnus Semantic EDE MMM-Mode EIEIO COGRE JDE everything-else)
==> 'perfect
--
BPT /"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign
backronym for Linux: \ / No HTML or RTF in mail
Linux Is Not Unix X No MS-Word in mail
Meme plague ;) ---------> / \ Respect Open Standards
[ Part 13: "Included Message" ]
Date: 10 Oct 2001 15:18:45 GMT
From: lvirden@
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.gui, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools, comp.lang.java.advocacy,
comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java
Subject: Re: JDE : a rather fine Java development tool.
According to Israel Raj T :
:JDE is installed automatically if you install any of the recent Xemacs
:distributions ( and answer 'yes' at the appropriate prompt / dialog
:box setting)
:It is lightweight compared to JBuilder / Forte and their ilk.
Xemacs + JDE is lighter weight than JBuilder or Forte? Wow - I've not
used either, and had always wondered what direction to go. It is rather
amazing to me that there could be any application heavier than Emacs...
--
--
"I know of vanishingly few people ... who choose to use ksh." "I'm a minority!"
Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
[ Part 14: "Included Message" ]
Date: 10 Oct 2001 16:49:34 +0100
From: Phillip Lord
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.gui, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools, comp.lang.java.advocacy,
comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java
Subject: Re: JDE : a rather fine Java development tool.
>>>>> "lvirden" == lvirden writes:
lvirden> Xemacs + JDE is lighter weight than JBuilder or Forte? Wow
lvirden> - I've not used either, and had always wondered what
lvirden> direction to go. It is rather amazing to me that there
lvirden> could be any application heavier than Emacs...
This of course was a valid criticism 10 years ago, when
comparing emacs to vi. Of course nowadays hard drives have got bigger
and memory cheaper. And emacs has turns up as a standard part of many
operating systems installs. The practical upshot of this is that my
development environment (the JDE) fits in a 3M of disk space, or about
three floppies. Or looked at in another way the entire application
(JDE and emacs) fits in under 20M (including all the source of
course). So yeah I'd say its pretty lightweight.
Phil
[ Part 15: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:20:56 -0700
From: Jon A. Cruz
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.gui, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools, comp.lang.java.advocacy,
comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java
Subject: Re: JDE : a rather fine Java development tool.
lvirden@ wrote:
> Xemacs + JDE is lighter weight than JBuilder or Forte? Wow - I've not
> used either, and had always wondered what direction to go. It is rather
> amazing to me that there could be any application heavier than Emacs...
Well, emacs is heavier than say vi or edlin, but you really have to look at some
of the modern tools to compare with.
With Forte, a common recommendtation is to have a system with at least 128MB RAM.
Emacs +JDE, on the other hand, was just using 11MB of RAM on my system after
running for a few days working on a small project (about 15 source files doing 3D
conversions, editing some 19MB data files, etc..).
Oh, sorry. I was wrong.
For Forte, the current recommended system RAM is 256 MB (128MB is the _minimum_
recommended).
Wow. And it looks like JBuilder is about the same.
And I remember working with Emacs +JDE on a p120 with 64MB RAM and running with
quite good performance. I was even more productive than on the dual 300 Windows
box running J++ at work (but yes, that was the version of dev studio that would
only use one processor).
--
Jon A. Cruz
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:43:17 GMT
From: Louis Zimmerman
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Java code formatters?
Hi, all!
Was wondering if anyone had suggestions for Java formatting
tools: something similar to 'indent' would be nice.
Louis
--
Louis Zimmerman: Photographer, knife maker, treasure hunter
Software developer at large
Powered by Linux!!
[ Part 3: "Included Message" ]
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 22:38:44 +0200
From: Genady
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java code formatters?
There is JIndent ....
Louis Zimmerman wrote:
> Hi, all!
>
> Was wondering if anyone had suggestions for Java formatting
> tools: something similar to 'indent' would be nice.
>
> Louis
>
> --
> Louis Zimmerman: Photographer, knife maker, treasure hunter
> Software developer at large
>
> Powered by Linux!!
>
>
>
>
[ Part 4: "Included Message" ]
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:27:18 -0700
From: Jon A. Cruz
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java code formatters?
Louis Zimmerman wrote:
> Hi, all!
>
> Was wondering if anyone had suggestions for Java formatting
> tools: something similar to 'indent' would be nice.
You can do it with Emacs
--
Jon A. Cruz
[ Part 5: "Included Message" ]
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 13:39:54 -0400
From: Fang Feng
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java code formatters?
Visual SlickEdit does an excellent job.
"Louis Zimmerman" wrote in message
news:3BBCADD7.5EDEBC22@...
> Hi, all!
>
> Was wondering if anyone had suggestions for Java formatting
> tools: something similar to 'indent' would be nice.
>
> Louis
>
> --
> Louis Zimmerman: Photographer, knife maker, treasure hunter
> Software developer at large
>
> Powered by Linux!!
>
>
>
[ Part 6: "Included Message" ]
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 22:10:12 +0200
From: Silvano Maffeis
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java code formatters?
see
It's a really powerful formatter.
Silvano
Fang Feng wrote:
> Visual SlickEdit does an excellent job.
>
> "Louis Zimmerman" wrote in message
> news:3BBCADD7.5EDEBC22@...
> > Hi, all!
> >
> > Was wondering if anyone had suggestions for Java formatting
> > tools: something similar to 'indent' would be nice.
> > Louis
> >
> > --
> > Louis Zimmerman: Photographer, knife maker, treasure hunter
> > Software developer at large
> >
> > Powered by Linux!!
> >
> >
> >
--
Dr. Silvano Maffeis, CTO, Softwired.
Download the "Wireless JMS" whitepaper:
[ Part 7: "Included Message" ]
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 16:24:58 +0200
From: Werner Purrer
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java code formatters?
On 997GUE, Louis Zimmerman wrote:
>
>Was wondering if anyone had suggestions for Java formatting
>tools: something similar to 'indent' would be nice.
jedit has an excellent one as downloadable plugin. The one from Netbeans
is also pretty nice but only does a basic job.
Werner
--
Memory Dragon
Five years of coding java and still sane.
[ Part 8: "Included Message" ]
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:02:16 +0200
From: Paul Jansen
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java code formatters?
The free configurable code beautifier Jacobe might serve your needs as well.
Have a look at
"Werner Purrer" wrote in message
news:u7p0st8a2lrdg4o4ghkruo5357cibu1r96@...
> On 997GUE, Louis Zimmerman wrote:
>
> >
> >Was wondering if anyone had suggestions for Java formatting
> >tools: something similar to 'indent' would be nice.
> jedit has an excellent one as downloadable plugin. The one from Netbeans
> is also pretty nice but only does a basic job.
>
>
> Werner
>
> --
> Memory Dragon
> Five years of coding java and still sane.
[ Part 9: "Included Message" ]
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 01:32:03 GMT
From: Louis Zimmerman
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java code formatters?
Thanks for all the info, folks!
Much appreciated... 8-)
Louis
Louis Zimmerman wrote in message ...
>Hi, all!
>
>Was wondering if anyone had suggestions for Java formatting
>tools: something similar to 'indent' would be nice.
>
>Louis
>
>--
>Louis Zimmerman: Photographer, knife maker, treasure hunter
>Software developer at large
>
>Powered by Linux!!
>
>
>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 15:13:14 +0100
From: James Fielding
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.beans,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Help with Java question
Hello.
Could somebody please provide help with the following question? I'm new to
Java.
Write a program that produces a grid showing the result of throwing two
dice. The calculations should be done and placed in a two dimensional array
before printing the entire set of results, e.g. a two and a three would give
five, and be placed in element [1][2] of the array. Also, calculate
probabilities of throwing each number from above.
Many thanks.
[ Part 3: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 15:37:23 +0100
From: Jon Skeet
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.beans,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Help with Java question
James Fielding wrote:
> Hello.
> Could somebody please provide help with the following question? I'm new to
> Java.
>
> Write a program that produces a grid showing the result of throwing two
> dice. The calculations should be done and placed in a two dimensional array
> before printing the entire set of results, e.g. a two and a three would give
> five, and be placed in element [1][2] of the array. Also, calculate
> probabilities of throwing each number from above.
Sure, I'm happy to provide help: how far have you got, and which bit are
you stuck on?
--
Jon Skeet -
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
[ Part 4: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:08:19 +0100
From: James Platt
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.beans,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Help with Java question
Hi Jon.
I havent got very far I must admit. I have just started learning Java for a
fortnight and I can't understand arrays! I'm sure if I understand this,
then everything else will begin to fit into place and make more sense.
I'm writing this message using my friend's newsgroup account, but I would be
grateful if you could reply by email: claudiam@.
[ Part 5: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:20:25 +0100
From: Jon Skeet
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.beans,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Help with Java question
[Posted and mailed]
James Platt wrote:
> I havent got very far I must admit. I have just started learning Java for a
> fortnight and I can't understand arrays! I'm sure if I understand this,
> then everything else will begin to fit into place and make more sense.
Right - so, where have you got with arrays, and what are you having
trouble with? There are a couple of gotchas, but they're not too hard
once you've got those ironed out.
> I'm writing this message using my friend's newsgroup account, but I would be
> grateful if you could reply by email: claudiam@.
If you don't have access to a news-server (and I would expect btinternet
to provide access, to be honest), you can read and post from Google.
It's generally best to keep discussions on Usenet while they can be of
help to other people.
--
Jon Skeet -
If replying to the group, please do not mail me too
[ Part 6: "Included Message" ]
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 17:33:08 GMT
From: paul.grunwald@
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.beans,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Help with Java question
On Wed, 3 Oct 2001 16:08:19 +0100, "James Platt"
wrote:
>Hi Jon.
>
>I havent got very far I must admit. I have just started learning Java for a
>fortnight and I can't understand arrays! I'm sure if I understand this,
>then everything else will begin to fit into place and make more sense.
>
>I'm writing this message using my friend's newsgroup account, but I would be
>grateful if you could reply by email: claudiam@.
>
There is a very good treatment of arrays in "Thinking in Java". You
can downlaod a copy for free at .
You should buy it!
P.
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 10:34:24 -0700
From: Wayne Kidd
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.beans,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Help with Java question
It seems so odd to me that people expect us to do their homework for them. When
you get the degree, will we have to do the work at your job? Can we have the
paycheck?
Wayne
James Fielding wrote:
> Hello.
>
> Could somebody please provide help with the following question? I'm new to
> Java.
>
> Write a program that produces a grid showing the result of throwing two
> dice. The calculations should be done and placed in a two dimensional array
> before printing the entire set of results, e.g. a two and a three would give
> five, and be placed in element [1][2] of the array. Also, calculate
> probabilities of throwing each number from above.
>
> Many thanks.
[ Part 8: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 18:56:42 +0100
From: Claudia Morgan
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.beans,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Help with Java question
There's no need to be so unhelpful. I was simply asking for guidance.
[ Part 9: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 16:01:43 -0700
From: Wayne Kidd
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.beans,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Help with Java question
I think anyone here is willing to be helpful if there is some indication
that the questioner has tried something or at least read the book. It is
when the question is just the homework assignment as the teacher wrote it
on the board and a "What do I do now" question that makes us feel like
unpaid help.
Wayne
Claudia Morgan wrote:
> There's no need to be so unhelpful. I was simply asking for guidance.
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 12:52:44 +0100
From: Andrew Griffin
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Java Chess
Hi, I'm looking to create a simple chess program in Java, in order to learn
the language. Trouble is I have no idea where to start. I know that Java
uses classes, but I have very little/no experience of Java and very little
of C++. I will be using JBuilder 2 to program with, unless anybody can
direct me to a freeware copy of JBuilder 3 or later(I know it was available
on a magazine cover over here in the UK, but not sure how to get hold of it
now). Is there perhaps a legitimate place to download it from? I admit I
have not yet checked Borland's website, so that will be my next step after
posting this. Basically I was hoping for some pointers, hints and
suggestions if anybody has any?
Kind Regards,
Andrew Griffin.
[ Part 3: "Included Message" ]
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 20:05:04 -0400
From: Edward Diener
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java Chess
You can get a free personal edition of the latest version of JBuilder at
.
Andrew Griffin wrote:
> Hi, I'm looking to create a simple chess program in Java, in order to learn
> the language. Trouble is I have no idea where to start. I know that Java
> uses classes, but I have very little/no experience of Java and very little
> of C++. I will be using JBuilder 2 to program with, unless anybody can
> direct me to a freeware copy of JBuilder 3 or later(I know it was available
> on a magazine cover over here in the UK, but not sure how to get hold of it
> now). Is there perhaps a legitimate place to download it from? I admit I
> have not yet checked Borland's website, so that will be my next step after
> posting this. Basically I was hoping for some pointers, hints and
> suggestions if anybody has any?
>
> Kind Regards,
> Andrew Griffin.
[ Part 4: "Included Message" ]
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 00:49:07 +0100
From: Andrew Griffin
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java Chess
Thanks for the advice mate. I downloaded version 5 following the same
suggestion from othrs.
Kind Regards,
Andrew Griffin.
"Edward Diener" wrote in message
news:3BBE4AB0.20504@...
> You can get a free personal edition of the latest version of JBuilder at
> .
>
> Andrew Griffin wrote:
>
> > Hi, I'm looking to create a simple chess program in Java, in order to
learn
> > the language. Trouble is I have no idea where to start. I know that
Java
> > uses classes, but I have very little/no experience of Java and very
little
> > of C++. I will be using JBuilder 2 to program with, unless anybody can
> > direct me to a freeware copy of JBuilder 3 or later(I know it was
available
> > on a magazine cover over here in the UK, but not sure how to get hold of
it
> > now). Is there perhaps a legitimate place to download it from? I admit
I
> > have not yet checked Borland's website, so that will be my next step
after
> > posting this. Basically I was hoping for some pointers, hints and
> > suggestions if anybody has any?
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Andrew Griffin.
>
[ Part 5: "Included Message" ]
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 23:13:33 -0500
From: Dale King
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java Chess
[ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ]
[ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
"Andrew Griffin" wrote in message
news:4Q5w7.29926$GT3.4196783@news2-win.server....
> Thanks for the advice mate. I downloaded version 5 following the same
> suggestion from othrs.
>
> "Edward Diener" wrote in message
> news:3BBE4AB0.20504@...
> > You can get a free personal edition of the latest version of JBuilder at
> > .
Suggest you read the license agreement very carefully. As I read the license
agreement for JBuilder 5 personal you cannot distribute anything you work on
in source code form and if you do so you agree to buy the professional
version.
[ Part 6: "Included Message" ]
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 15:14:51 GMT
From: Mark Watson
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java Chess
Hello Andrew,
I have a 100 page free web book on my web
site that has an alpha-beta
chess playing program as one of the examples.
Anyway, my web book is free, so please help
yourself. (BTW, I am also the author of
12 published books, with another one soon to
be released on J2EE/Sun ONE).
re: JBuilder: I have always liked JBuilder, but the latest
free version (version 5) is illegal to use for any
non-commercial applications. You might give
the latest NetBeans IDE a try: open source and
binary installations available from
Best regards,
Mark
--Mark Watson -- Java consulting, Open Source and Content:
[ Part 7: "Included Message" ]
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 18:34:54 +0100
From: Andrew Griffin
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java Chess
Superb mate, appreciate it. Can I come to you with any problems I may have
in my programming?
Kind Regards,
Andrew Griffin.
"Mark Watson" wrote in message
news:Lpjw7.11327$3i3.1252774@newsread1.prod.itd....
> Hello Andrew,
>
> I have a 100 page free web book on my web
> site that has an alpha-beta
> chess playing program as one of the examples.
>
> Anyway, my web book is free, so please help
> yourself. (BTW, I am also the author of
> 12 published books, with another one soon to
> be released on J2EE/Sun ONE).
>
> re: JBuilder: I have always liked JBuilder, but the latest
> free version (version 5) is illegal to use for any
> non-commercial applications. You might give
> the latest NetBeans IDE a try: open source and
> binary installations available from
>
> Best regards,
> Mark
>
> --Mark Watson -- Java consulting, Open Source and Content:
>
>
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 16:47:58 +0100
From: David Jones
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Java Decompiler
Anyone come across java decompiler ?
Thank you for assistance
Dave
[ Part 3: "Included Message" ]
Date: 27 Sep 2001 10:44:36 -0700
From: D. J. Hagberg
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java Decompiler
In article , "David says...
>Anyone come across java decompiler ?
>Thank you for assistance
[ Part 4: "Included Message" ]
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 09:02:59 +1000
From: Warwick Hunter
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java Decompiler
There is one in the standard jdk called javap,
run it with the right flags and voila!
Warwick
[ Part 5: "Included Message" ]
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 16:08:19 GMT
From: Nathan Zumwalt
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java Decompiler
JAD with FrontEnd Plus as a GUI is the best I've ever seen... but the JAD
website seems to have dissappeared :(
-Nathan
"David Jones" wrote in message
news:9ovhnh$knd1@webint....
> Anyone come across java decompiler ?
> Thank you for assistance
>
> Dave
>
>
[ Part 6: "Included Message" ]
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 00:09:16 +0100
From: mn
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java Decompiler
"Nathan Zumwalt" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Tf1t7.51774$707.28797697@news2.rdc2.tx....
> JAD with FrontEnd Plus as a GUI is the best I've ever seen... but the JAD
> website seems to have dissappeared :(
>
> -Nathan
>
> "David Jones" wrote in message
> news:9ovhnh$knd1@webint....
> > Anyone come across java decompiler ?
> > Thank you for assistance
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
>
>
[ Part 7: "Included Message" ]
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:55:27 +0100
From: Clinton Edwards
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java Decompiler
is "Sorry, this site is temporarily
unavailable!"
--
Best regards
Clinton Edwards
A Different Way of Thinking ` : - }
"mn" wrote in message
news:Uq7t7.2889$w5.19627@news.indigo.ie...
|
|
| "Nathan Zumwalt" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
| news:Tf1t7.51774$707.28797697@news2.rdc2.tx....
| > JAD with FrontEnd Plus as a GUI is the best I've ever seen... but the
JAD
| > website seems to have dissappeared :(
| >
| > -Nathan
| >
| > "David Jones" wrote in message
| > news:9ovhnh$knd1@webint....
| > > Anyone come across java decompiler ?
| > > Thank you for assistance
| > >
| > > Dave
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 23:55:06 -0400
From: Vlad Vinogradsky
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Seeking advice on a Java development tool
I am looking for a fast and robust IDE for Java. What would you recommend?
Thanks,
Vlad
[ Part 3: "Included Message" ]
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 23:14:58 -0700
From: Jon A. Cruz
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on a Java development tool
Vlad Vinogradsky wrote:
> I am looking for a fast and robust IDE for Java. What would you recommend?
Emacs + JDE
--
Jon A. Cruz
[ Part 4: "Included Message" ]
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 17:50:43 GMT
From: Paul Hodgetts
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on a Java development tool
"Vlad Vinogradsky" wrote:
> I am looking for a fast and robust IDE for Java. What would you recommend?
We've been evaluating IntelliJ's IDEA for the past week and a half.
Previously we used JBuilder 4. IDEA is really something worth taking a
look at. We were able to jump in and be productive with it on the first
day. After about 4 days, we learned enough of the more advanced features
that it started saving us a lot of time for code editing and refactoring
tasks. After following along with their mailing lists, they seem very
actively committed to improving the product. We're planning on deciding
whether to purchase it next week, and I'm betting we will.
Whatever IDE you consider, I recommend that you use it for at least a week
or two for real world, day-to-day coding tasks. Most IDEs are complex
enough that it takes a bit to explore and learn their features. And it
usually takes about a week to perform enough varied tasks to exercise the
IDE well enough to see if it meets your needs. It may seem like a hassle
to evaluate it for that long, but you'll be living with it day-to-day for a
long time, so it's worth the investment.
Anyway, check out IntelliJ IDEA at .
Regards,
-Paul
[ Part 5: "Included Message" ]
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 15:27:07 +0200
From: Bx
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on a Java development tool
Paul Hodgetts wrote:
> "Vlad Vinogradsky" wrote:
>
> > I am looking for a fast and robust IDE for Java. What would you recommend?
>
Has started to use Eclipse ()? I just installed it today and it
looks promising. The GUI is very fast (they use native windows components on Win
or Motif components on Linux) and IDE itself does not eat much memory. Also CVS
support is interesting.
Martin
[ Part 6: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:56:12 GMT
From: Dave Astels
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on a Java development tool
[ The following text is in the "ISO-8859-1" character set. ]
[ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
In article , "Bx" wrote:
> Paul Hodgetts wrote:
>
>> "Vlad Vinogradsky" wrote:
>>
>> > I am looking for a fast and robust IDE for Java. What would you
>> > recommend?
>>
>>
> Has started to use Eclipse ()? I just installed it today
> and it looks promising.
I've been using Eclipse for about two weeks... heavily on a real project.
It works really well. Honestly, it's the first IDE that I've been
impresed by. The CVS integration is impressive, good editor, resource
management & navigation, etc. And an open API so it can be extended with
plugins. Definatley worth a look.
Dave
--
Dave Astels
President, Saorsa Development Inc.
"Embedded Java Solutions"
[ Part 7: "Included Message" ]
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 14:17:51 -0400
From: MWRon
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Seeking advice on a Java development tool
In article ,
"Vlad Vinogradsky" wrote:
>I am looking for a fast and robust IDE for Java. What would you recommend?
What platform are you on, what tools do you need. What platform are
you developing for, J2SE, J2ME, J2EE ? Our product CodeWarrior is a
good fast and robust IDE with a good set of tools but not overbearing.
If you are interested in a trial give it a whirl, we have a 30 Day
evaluation version you can try out.
I'd be happy to help you with other questions too.
Ron
--
CodeWarrior for Macintosh, v7 and CodeWarrior for Windows, v7
are shipping now !!
Call 1-800-377-5416 US and Canada Only
or write intlsls@ for international orders
Metrowerks - Ron Liechty - MWRon@
Date: 20 Sep 2001 09:22:11 GMT
From: Jyrki O Saarinen
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: [Q] Profiling tools?
Any recommendations for profiling tools (thread analyzing
(dead/livelocks), memory and CPU profiling)? Tool should be available
for many platforms.
[ Part 3: "Included Message" ]
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2001 19:52:19 +0200
From: Adam Kiezun
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: [Q] Profiling tools?
Jyrki O Saarinen wrote:
>
> Any recommendations for profiling tools (thread analyzing
> (dead/livelocks), memory and CPU profiling)? Tool should be available
> for many platforms.
i'd recommend OptimizeIt
a.
---
Object Technology International Inc.
[ Part 4: "Included Message" ]
Date: 21 Sep 2001 09:45:32 GMT
From: Jyrki O Saarinen
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: [Q] Profiling tools?
Adam Kiezun wrote:
:> Any recommendations for profiling tools (thread analyzing
:> (dead/livelocks), memory and CPU profiling)? Tool should be available
:> for many platforms.
:
: i'd recommend OptimizeIt
OptimizeIt didn't have a thread analyzer (yet), or did it? What about
JProbe? Any experiences?
[ Part 5: "Included Message" ]
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 17:43:21 GMT
From: Tracy Nelson
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: [Q] Profiling tools?
I've used JProbe pretty successfully. I found the ability to checkpoint the
heap and then see memory usage deltas very useful. Hotspot identification
was also pretty painless.
It's not cheap, but I found it to be a good tool.
"Jyrki O Saarinen" wrote in message
news:9of27s$gp5$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> OptimizeIt didn't have a thread analyzer (yet), or did it? What about
> JProbe? Any experiences?
[ Part 6: "Included Message" ]
Date: 26 Sep 2001 09:51:54 GMT
From: Jyrki O Saarinen
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: [Q] Profiling tools?
Tracy Nelson wrote:
: I've used JProbe pretty successfully. I found the ability to checkpoint the
: heap and then see memory usage deltas very useful. Hotspot identification
: was also pretty painless.
: It's not cheap, but I found it to be a good tool.
Have you used OptimizeIt also? If yes, how does it compare to JProbe in
your opinion?
[ Part 7: "Included Message" ]
Date: 04 Oct 2001 04:48:27 +0200
From: "Gunnar [iso-8859-1] Rønning"
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: [Q] Profiling tools?
[ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ]
* Jyrki O Saarinen wrote:
| : It's not cheap, but I found it to be a good tool.
|
| Have you used OptimizeIt also? If yes, how does it compare to JProbe in
| your opinion?
I've not used JProbe, but I've heard from others that OptimizeIT
is supposed to be easier to learn and use efficiently. I got results
the same day I started using OptmizeIT. I found it very intuitive and
easy to learn.
--
Gunnar Rønning - gunnarpublic@
Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS,
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 17:26:41 GMT
From: David Risner
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java editing tool recommendation
[posted and mailed]
"Craig Sanborn" wrote in
news:HIvp7.219$aT1.52369500@twister1.:
> Here's my situation: My source code is on a remote Solaris box, I code
> java by telnetting (from my win2k box) into the Solaris box, and I use
> VI to do the editing and am quite happy, however my connection has been
> quite slow lately and I'd like to bring the code local - but not the
> whole app, just what I'm editing. I'll still compile it and run it in
> my telnet session.
>
> I'd like to load and save the code directly on the Solaris box and I
> don't want to have to manually FTP the code. A vi interface would be
> great but I could stand to learn an IDE or two.
> Any recommendations?
Three ideas:
1. The latest version of Vim () that is still in beta has
the ability to read and write files over FTP.
2. Visual SlickEdit () does very nice FTP editing
and is very feature rich (including VI key binding if you like).
3. WebDrive () lets you set up a Windows
drive over an FTP connection. That is, you would be able to have the FTP
site look like a Windows drive (no need for Samba then).
--
David G. Risner
[ Part 3: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 23:31:54 +0200
From: jw
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java editing tool recommendation
works great with ftp...
"Craig Sanborn" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:HIvp7.219$aT1.52369500@twister1....
> Can anyone recommend a java source editing tool which supports
auto-ftp'ing.
>
> Here's my situation: My source code is on a remote Solaris box, I code
java
> by telnetting (from my win2k box) into the Solaris box, and I use VI to do
> the editing and am quite happy, however my connection has been quite slow
> lately and I'd like to bring the code local - but not the whole app, just
> what I'm editing. I'll still compile it and run it in my telnet session.
>
> I'd like to load and save the code directly on the Solaris box and I don't
> want to have to manually FTP the code. A vi interface would be great but
I
> could stand to learn an IDE or two.
>
> I've been using lemmy to accomplish this, but it's ftp abilities are
really
> rough around the edges. Editing multiple programs is really a pain -
having
> to put in the entire ftp path each time.
>
> I actually like the way Homesite handles remote file editing, but I really
> would like something more java-ish to code in.
>
> Any recommendations?
>
> (by the way installing samba on the solaris box is not allowed by sys
admin
> for some reason).
>
> Thanks,
> Craig
>
>
[ Part 4: "Included Message" ]
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 17:53:54 GMT
From: David Blevins
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java editing tool recommendation
Visual SlickEdit is quite good. It supports regular expressions, macros,
and a million other time savers.
David Blevins
---
OpenEJB - Open Source EJB Container System
ftp.pub/openejb/
"David Risner" wrote in message
news:Xns91216A38E24E5drisnereskimocom@24.130.27.14...
> [posted and mailed]
>
> "Craig Sanborn" wrote in
> news:HIvp7.219$aT1.52369500@twister1.:
>
> > Here's my situation: My source code is on a remote Solaris box, I code
> > java by telnetting (from my win2k box) into the Solaris box, and I use
> > VI to do the editing and am quite happy, however my connection has been
> > quite slow lately and I'd like to bring the code local - but not the
> > whole app, just what I'm editing. I'll still compile it and run it in
> > my telnet session.
> >
> > I'd like to load and save the code directly on the Solaris box and I
> > don't want to have to manually FTP the code. A vi interface would be
> > great but I could stand to learn an IDE or two.
>
> > Any recommendations?
>
> Three ideas:
>
> 1. The latest version of Vim () that is still in beta
has
> the ability to read and write files over FTP.
>
> 2. Visual SlickEdit () does very nice FTP editing
> and is very feature rich (including VI key binding if you like).
>
> 3. WebDrive () lets you set up a Windows
> drive over an FTP connection. That is, you would be able to have the FTP
> site look like a Windows drive (no need for Samba then).
>
> --
> David G. Risner
>
[ Part 5: "Included Message" ]
Date: 04 Oct 2001 04:44:43 +0200
From: "Gunnar [iso-8859-1] Rønning"
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java editing tool recommendation
[ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ]
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[Answering a little late...]
* "Craig Sanborn" wrote:
| Can anyone recommend a java source editing tool which supports auto-ftp'ing.
Emacs is ofcourse the right answer. A serious programmer would never use
an editor without a built in programming language. Elisp is fun !
Enjoy programming use Emacs !
enough religion for today,
Gunnar
--
Gunnar Rønning - gunnarpublic@
Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS,
[ Part 6: "Included Message" ]
Date: 3 Oct 2001 22:57:14 -0500
From: Galen Boyer
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java editing tool recommendation
On 04 Oct 2001, gunnarpublic@ wrote:
> [Answering a little late...]
>
> * "Craig Sanborn" wrote:
>
>| Can anyone recommend a java source editing tool which supports
>| auto-ftp'ing.
>
> Emacs is ofcourse the right answer. A serious programmer would
> never use an editor without a built in programming
> language. Elisp is fun ! Enjoy programming use Emacs !
Now, now. That could cause arguments. But, you have to admit
that the auto-ftp'ing comes with the bare-bones Emacs and then
one can install the JDE later.
The coolest thing about Emacs is that the modes become wonderful
tools for people to build their own little world and then share
it with the rest.
--
Galen Boyer
Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground.
[ Part 7: "Included Message" ]
Date: 04 Oct 2001 23:40:39 +0200
From: "Gunnar [iso-8859-1] Rønning"
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Java editing tool recommendation
[ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ]
[ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
* Galen Boyer wrote:
|
| > Emacs is ofcourse the right answer. A serious programmer would
| > never use an editor without a built in programming
| > language. Elisp is fun ! Enjoy programming use Emacs !
|
| Now, now. That could cause arguments. But, you have to admit
| that the auto-ftp'ing comes with the bare-bones Emacs and then
| one can install the JDE later.
Well, you don't actually need JDE to Java programming in Emacs. I've been
doing Java code in Emacs since 1995 without JDE.
| The coolest thing about Emacs is that the modes become wonderful
| tools for people to build their own little world and then share
| it with the rest.
:-)
--
Gunnar Rønning - gunnarpublic@
Senior Consultant, Polygnosis AS,
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 00:10:23 -0400
From: Cowan
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Need simple Drawing Application, Java Swing
We're creating a Java swing program for children. We want to incorporate the
ability for our users to draw, create straight lines, circles/ovals,
rectangles, etc. We will need to be able to fill in closed areas with color,
and choose line widths and colors. We will also need to add text.
Does anyone know of a drawing module that matches our needs, or do we need
to create our own?
Thank you.
David Cowan
[ Part 3: "Included Message" ]
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 16:47:45 GMT
From: Jonathan Nash
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Need simple Drawing Application, Java Swing
On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 00:10:23 -0400, Cowan wrote:
>
>
>We're creating a Java swing program for children. We want to incorporate the
>ability for our users to draw, create straight lines, circles/ovals,
>rectangles, etc. We will need to be able to fill in closed areas with color,
>and choose line widths and colors. We will also need to add text.
>
>Does anyone know of a drawing module that matches our needs, or do we need
>to create our own?
>
>Thank you.
>
>David Cowan
>
This won't do exactly what you want but the JFreeChart library at
has a lot of drawing code you could re-use
for your own purposes.
Currently the code is geared to drawing graphs from an easily set-up
data source. One approach would be to create data sources that provide
the outline of the shape. The library also handles pie charts so the
functionality for drawing circles is already in there.
Jonathan
--
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.
L. Wittgenstein
[ Part 4: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:36:08 +0200
From: Klaus Hartlage
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Need simple Drawing Application, Java Swing
Try this url:
Cowan wrote:
>
> We're creating a Java swing program for children. We want to incorporate the
> ability for our users to draw, create straight lines, circles/ovals,
> rectangles, etc. We will need to be able to fill in closed areas with color,
> and choose line widths and colors. We will also need to add text.
>
> Does anyone know of a drawing module that matches our needs, or do we need
> to create our own?
>
> Thank you.
>
> David Cowan
>
>
--
Klaus Hartlage
Math java project:
Riding the Java wave:
[ Part 5: "Included Message" ]
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2001 14:40:59 +0200
From: Bernhard Fischer
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Need simple Drawing Application, Java Swing
See demo "Draw" of Java Web Start:
Bernhard Fischer
"Cowan" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:B7C306EF.61B%cowan@...
>
>
> We're creating a Java swing program for children. We want to incorporate
the
> ability for our users to draw, create straight lines, circles/ovals,
> rectangles, etc. We will need to be able to fill in closed areas with
color,
> and choose line widths and colors. We will also need to add text.
>
> Does anyone know of a drawing module that matches our needs, or do we need
> to create our own?
>
> Thank you.
>
> David Cowan
>
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 13:55:18 +0200
From: Svatopluk Dedic
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Lightweight IDE
Philip Shanks wrote:
> Re: Forte -- I've never been happy with this... It's cool to have a visual
> editor for GUI building, but it is easy to wind up with a lot of "do
> nothing" code that it won't let you excise from inside the IDE. And it is
> s-l-o-w. I like the Tomcat integration though. For some reason, Netbeans
> seems to be a smidgen better -- I sometimes run it on my PII-400 Linux
> machine... but again it seems more trouble than its worth... I end up
> just launching jEdit.
Could you be a little more precise ? You know, although I am biased ;-) I'd
like to get some usable feedback - what is so annoying on Forte/NetBeans
except the performance ?
--
Svatopluk Dedic
NetBeans, Java/Repository
[ Part 3: "Included Message" ]
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 20:50:41 GMT
From: Jonathan Nash
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Lightweight IDE
On Mon, 10 Sep 2001 13:55:18 +0200, Svatopluk Dedic
wrote:
>Philip Shanks wrote:
>
>> Re: Forte -- I've never been happy with this... It's cool to have a visual
>> editor for GUI building, but it is easy to wind up with a lot of "do
>> nothing" code that it won't let you excise from inside the IDE. And it is
>> s-l-o-w. I like the Tomcat integration though. For some reason, Netbeans
>> seems to be a smidgen better -- I sometimes run it on my PII-400 Linux
>> machine... but again it seems more trouble than its worth... I end up
>> just launching jEdit.
>
>Could you be a little more precise ? You know, although I am biased ;-) I'd
>like to get some usable feedback - what is so annoying on Forte/NetBeans
>except the performance ?
>
>--
>Svatopluk Dedic
>NetBeans, Java/Repository
>
Here are my 2 cents on this topic. I currently use Forte after having
tried emacs with JDE and JBuilder 5. I really liked JBuilder 5 but
they require you to upgrade to enterprise edition for the bells and
whistles which are included with Forte -- jar builder, cvs support,
java doc support, java bean tools etc.
JBuilder has a better UI and is faster.
Forte is more complicated and slower. However, it can do everything
you want to do with it even if it takes a while to figure out. For
example, it took me a while to figure out how to get autocompletion
for my own classes. It took me a while to figure out how to write
class files to a different directory than the source files are in. It
took me a while to figure out how to switch from the multiple
independent windows to the single window interface. For some settings
it requries you to play around with a configuration file rather than
being able to handle everything through the UI. It has problems with
directory names with a space in them (at least in Win95).
One nice feature in Forte that is absent in JBuilder is that if you
click on runtime errors it takes you to the relevant source code (both
systems do thsi for compile time errors).
Performance is no trivial matter. I use Forte on a P266 with 160 meg
of RAM and it can take a couple of minutes to start up.
So, IMHO, Forte is the best choice for developers who want to be able
to do virtually everything within the IDE. For those with more limited
needs I would recommend JBuilder.
Jonathan
--
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.
L. Wittgenstein
[ Part 4: "Included Message" ]
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 13:53:29 -0500
From: Chris Riesbeck
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Lightweight IDE
In article ,
jnash67@ (Jonathan Nash) wrote:
>One nice feature in Forte that is absent in JBuilder is that if you
>click on runtime errors it takes you to the relevant source code (both
>systems do thsi for compile time errors).
Does anyone know why so many of the lightweight tools don't do this?
The runtime error message contains the class and line number.
[ Part 5: "Included Message" ]
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2001 19:41:08 GMT
From: Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Lightweight IDE
jnash67@ (Jonathan Nash) writes:
> One nice feature in Forte that is absent in JBuilder is that if you
> click on runtime errors it takes you to the relevant source code (both
> systems do thsi for compile time errors).
Not absent in Pro and/or Enterprise.
--
Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
So the fruits of your labors have fermented into wine
And the sweat that was dripped is now the honey of the hive
- Clutch: High Caliber Consecrator
[ Part 6: "Included Message" ]
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2001 22:24:39 GMT
From: David Ehrens
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Lightweight IDE
Philip Shanks wrote in
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.0109080045510.20402-100000@alfred.:
...
> Re: Forte -- I've never been happy with this... It's cool to
> have a visual editor for GUI building, but it is easy to
> wind up with a lot of "do nothing" code that it won't let
> you excise from inside the IDE.
You should probably be specific about what type of code you are
unhappy with. In my experience, in generating similar code with
both Forte/Netbeans and JBuilder, I found that Netbeans tends to
generate more straightforward code than JBuilder for AWT apps (I
don't use Swing), and it also lets you put in user code in very
sensible ways. So, I'm a pretty happy customer. But if there is
something you don't like, you should describe it in some detail.
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:32:12 -0400
From: srg
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
I am going to set up a leanring environment at home. Should I download
Apache Java server or whatever it's new name is so I can eventually program
serlets, JSP and JDBC programming?
What about good lerning tools - Forte? VisualAge? Jdeveloper? straight
code?
Thanks so much for your help!
[ Part 3: "Included Message" ]
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:28:31 -0400
From: mike
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
"srg" wrote in message
news:G%Ti7.29193$zk4.1530772@e3500-atl1....
> I am going to set up a leanring environment at home. Should I download
> Apache Java server or whatever it's new name is so I can eventually
program
> serlets, JSP and JDBC programming?
Try jRun.
[ Part 4: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:54:53 GMT
From: George Garnett
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
I suggest you purchase JBuilder Personal for $60.00. Let its build some
projects for you using drag and drop. Then study the code it generates for
you. You can bypass the code generator and manually program too. Although it
doesn't directly support servlets (you have to upgrade to the $1000 version
to debug servlets in JBuilder environment), you can still develop them in
the JBuilder Personal environment. You can do this because JBuilder uses
jdk1.3 which comes with servlets. When your ready to try it, copy the
*.class file you created over to the servlet engine directory where their
'hello world' *.class file example exists. Then run it from there. I've
tried the above in Visualcafe (dont buy it) instead of JBuilder so I can't
guarantee it will work in JBuilder. By running it in the server, you don't
have the ability to use JBuilder debug tools. You'll have to come up with
your own manual debug method instead (such as out.println() ).
Go to and look for jakarta project. Download the apache web
server and the tomcat application server within it ( I believe they are
bundled together). Once you figure out what documentation to read, its
relatively easy to install. I assume JSP will run here too without too much
trouble.
More importantly, I suggest you read a pile of books on java. Its not just
syntax. The object oriented philosophy takes a while to appreciate. You
might want to start with 'Thinking in Java' by Eckel. Most computer books by
the publisher O'reilly are well written. To use JSP, you should read books
on HTML and javascript. Similarly you can read a book on JDBC.
You can get your books at for about 40% off.
Example:
import java.io.*;
import javax.servlet.*;
import javax.servlet.http.*;
import java.util.Enumeration;
public class HelloWorlds extends HttpServlet
{
public void doGet(HttpServletRequest req, HttpServletResponse res)
throws ServletException, IOException
{
res.setContentType("text/html");
PrintWriter out = res.getWriter();
out.println("");
out.println("Hello Worlds");
out.println("");
out.println("Hello Worlds");
out.println("");
Enumeration en = req.getHeaderNames();
while(en.nextElement()!=null)
{
out.println(en.toString());
out.println(req.getHeader(en.toString()));
}
}
}
"srg" wrote in message
news:G%Ti7.29193$zk4.1530772@e3500-atl1....
> I am going to set up a leanring environment at home. Should I download
> Apache Java server or whatever it's new name is so I can eventually
program
> serlets, JSP and JDBC programming?
>
> What about good lerning tools - Forte? VisualAge? Jdeveloper? straight
> code?
>
> Thanks so much for your help!
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:09:20 -0500
From: Dale King
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
[ The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set. ]
[ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ]
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
"srg" wrote in message
news:G%Ti7.29193$zk4.1530772@e3500-atl1....
> I am going to set up a leanring environment at home. Should I download
> Apache Java server or whatever it's new name is so I can eventually
program
> serlets, JSP and JDBC programming?
You need to learn the language before getting into those.
> What about good lerning tools - Forte? VisualAge? Jdeveloper? straight
> code?
For a newbie just learning Java, the best choice is BlueJ at .
It is specifically designed to be a learning environment.
--
Dale King
[ Part 6: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 03:34:47 GMT
From: C. Lamont Gilbert
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
I reccommend JBuilder 5 personal, download free from borland website. This
will help you to easily identify errors and such while you program. I never
listen to people who claim its better to start by using notepad...
manually open the java files and see whats goin on, etc. watch the
compilers command window so you can see how the command to compile is
issues. learn piece by piece.
"srg" wrote in message
news:G%Ti7.29193$zk4.1530772@e3500-atl1....
> I am going to set up a leanring environment at home. Should I download
> Apache Java server or whatever it's new name is so I can eventually
program
> serlets, JSP and JDBC programming?
>
> What about good lerning tools - Forte? VisualAge? Jdeveloper? straight
> code?
>
> Thanks so much for your help!
>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:55:44 +1200
From: DrinksCabSav
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
Nah! Its too complex. Use JCreator instead. Simple and easy to use for a
beginner.
Another newbie. :)
"C. Lamont Gilbert" wrote in message
news:rpZi7.66805$K6.26248841@news2...
> I reccommend JBuilder 5 personal, download free from borland website.
This
> will help you to easily identify errors and such while you program. I
never
> listen to people who claim its better to start by using notepad...
>
> manually open the java files and see whats goin on, etc. watch the
> compilers command window so you can see how the command to compile is
> issues. learn piece by piece.
>
>
>
>
> "srg" wrote in message
> news:G%Ti7.29193$zk4.1530772@e3500-atl1....
> > I am going to set up a leanring environment at home. Should I download
> > Apache Java server or whatever it's new name is so I can eventually
> program
> > serlets, JSP and JDBC programming?
> >
> > What about good lerning tools - Forte? VisualAge? Jdeveloper?
straight
> > code?
> >
> > Thanks so much for your help!
> >
> >
> >
>
>
[ Part 8: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:09:21 +1200
From: Simon Righarts
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
Agreed. I'm using JCreator 1.5 with JDK1.1.8 (required for the course I'm
doing), and it does everything you might need as a newbie :-)
Speaking as a relative newbie myself ... only been learning Java for 2
months, just starting to get into GUI's, abstract classes and complex
heirarchies .... real fun stuff :-)
ICQ: #7930776
Email: righarts@xtra.co.nz
>
I was going to be a smart-@$$. I didn't make the grade, so now I'm just a
dumb-@$$
"DrinksCabSav" wrote in message
news:kS3j7.726$Q_.128747@news.xtra.co.nz...
> Nah! Its too complex. Use JCreator instead. Simple and easy to use for a
> beginner.
>
> Another newbie. :)
>
>
> "C. Lamont Gilbert" wrote in message
> news:rpZi7.66805$K6.26248841@news2...
> > I reccommend JBuilder 5 personal, download free from borland website.
[ Part 9: "Included Message" ]
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 18:52:23 +0100
From: Gina
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
1. get a book for dummies ....
2. download the java2 sdk
set it up as described in the book .... should you have trouble post here or
email me
gina.meyer@
once you have done a few days with the 'easy- to- overlook' notepad version
I would recommend notetab () I have done next to all of my
modules with this setup
now I am doing a slightly bigger project .... and I am really gratefuzll for
the debugger and all the other nice features jbuilder enterprise has (
version 4 though).
I personally think that JBuilder produces too many files .. and as a newbie
this is the confusing bit apart from having to set all these paths .....
good luck!!
Gina
"C. Lamont Gilbert" wrote in message
news:rpZi7.66805$K6.26248841@news2...
> I reccommend JBuilder 5 personal, download free from borland website.
This
> will help you to easily identify errors and such while you program. I
never
> listen to people who claim its better to start by using notepad...
>
> manually open the java files and see whats goin on, etc. watch the
> compilers command window so you can see how the command to compile is
> issues. learn piece by piece.
>
>
>
>
> "srg" wrote in message
> news:G%Ti7.29193$zk4.1530772@e3500-atl1....
> > I am going to set up a leanring environment at home. Should I download
> > Apache Java server or whatever it's new name is so I can eventually
> program
> > serlets, JSP and JDBC programming?
> >
> > What about good lerning tools - Forte? VisualAge? Jdeveloper?
straight
> > code?
> >
> > Thanks so much for your help!
> >
> >
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:54:52 +0200
From: Sebastian Bossung
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Followup-To: comp.lang.java.beans
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
srg wrote:
> I am going to set up a leanring environment at home. Should I download
> Apache Java server or whatever it's new name is so I can eventually
> program serlets, JSP and JDBC programming?
Learn pain Java before these.
>
> What about good lerning tools - Forte? VisualAge? Jdeveloper? straight
> code?
for a IDE tool I recommend Netbeans. see , it's free.
Sebastian
>
> Thanks so much for your help!
>
Date: 30 Aug 2001 05:09:27 -0700
From: Steven Wynne
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
Hi,
Just an aside - I'd also recommend 'Thinking in Java', particularly
because you can get it as a free electronic book (jsut do google
search for it)
S
[ Part 12: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 16:47:38 +0200
From: Carl Smotricz
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
I haven't seen all the other recommendations, but I have a big thumbs
up for the Java Tutorial on Sun's Web site:
This was essentially my first source of Java knowledge, and after having
bought dozens of books on the subject, I still find a practical solution
here for almost anything I want to do.
-Carl-
Steven Wynne wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Just an aside - I'd also recommend 'Thinking in Java', particularly
> because you can get it as a free electronic book (jsut do google
> search for it)
>
> S
[ Part 13: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 16:32:03 GMT
From: Ingren Jack Kau
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
JRun is the easiest one to setup and give you pretty good experience
of what the real world J2EE environment is.
Tomcat + jBoss is the alternative one but quite difficult to setup.
Carl Smotricz wrote:
> I haven't seen all the other recommendations, but I have a big thumbs
> up for the Java Tutorial on Sun's Web site:
>
>
> This was essentially my first source of Java knowledge, and after having
> bought dozens of books on the subject, I still find a practical solution
> here for almost anything I want to do.
>
> -Carl-
>
> Steven Wynne wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Just an aside - I'd also recommend 'Thinking in Java', particularly
> > because you can get it as a free electronic book (jsut do google
> > search for it)
> >
> > S
[ Part 13.2, "Card for Ingren Jack Kau" Text/X-VCARD (Name: "kau.vcf") 15 lines. ]
[ Not Shown. Use the "V" command to view or save to address book. ]
[ Part 14: "Included Message" ]
Date: 5 Sep 2001 17:07:57 -0400
From: Edwin Brown
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
In article ,
Ingren Jack Kau wrote:
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>--------------A7727367B3D27FB7045056CE
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>
>JRun is the easiest one to setup and give you pretty good experience
>of what the real world J2EE environment is.
Uhhhhhhh......
No.
[ Part 15: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 22:48:12 -0400
From: Raymond Blum
To: Ingren Jack Kau
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
I second that "uuuuhhhh... no"
I have worked with WebLogic, JRun and Tomcat (although not JBoss)
JRun is quick to install and runs pretty well but it one of the
flakiest and most poorly documented. IMHO the time that you spend trying
to figure out the poor examples and inadequate JRun documentation would
be better spent working with Tomcat (and most likely JBoss)
---Raymond
Ingren Jack Kau wrote:
>
> JRun is the easiest one to setup and give you pretty good experience
> of what the real world J2EE environment is.
>
> Tomcat + jBoss is the alternative one but quite difficult to setup.
>
> Carl Smotricz wrote:
>
> > I haven't seen all the other recommendations, but I have a big thumbs
> > up for the Java Tutorial on Sun's Web site:
> >
> >
> >
> > This was essentially my first source of Java knowledge, and after having
> > bought dozens of books on the subject, I still find a practical solution
> > here for almost anything I want to do.
> >
> > -Carl-
> >
> > Steven Wynne wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Just an aside - I'd also recommend 'Thinking in Java', particularly
> > > because you can get it as a free electronic book (jsut do google
> > > search for it)
> > >
> > > S
--
Cheers,
Raymond Blum
Chief Technical Officer, VP of System Architecture
Askit Systems
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[ Part 16: "Included Message" ]
Date: 6 Sep 2001 00:08:27 -0400
From: Edwin Brown
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
In article ,
Raymond Blum wrote:
>I second that "uuuuhhhh... no"
>
> I have worked with WebLogic, JRun and Tomcat (although not JBoss)
>
> JRun is quick to install and runs pretty well but it one of the
>flakiest and most poorly documented. IMHO the time that you spend trying
>to figure out the poor examples and inadequate JRun documentation would
>be better spent working with Tomcat (and most likely JBoss)
I evaluated WebLogic, JRun, JBoss, Orion, Bluestone, Borland AppServer,
and some others.
Part of my evaluation was ease of initial setup and the amount of time
needed to get a simple "Hello World" application up and running. (There
were more criteria, but the initial setup counts heavily, to me).
And the p*ss poor documentation of JRun doomed it. Sure, I could get
servlets and JSP's running quickly, but the core of the system that
I am aiding in designing and building, requires session and entity EJBs,
accessed within the app server environment and external to the
enviornment.
Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2001 04:19:01 GMT
From: Ingren Jack Kau
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
All,
If you compare JRun with WebLogic, WebSphere BlueStone, I cannot argue that.
But the poor soul want a recommendation of something he can get his hand wet.
How can you expect him to get weblogic, webSphere or BlueStone?
May be it's only me but I have the worst experience with jBoss (not TomCat).
I can hardly figure out how to get the basic thing working with jBoss.
But I need more than Servlet + JSP.
Jack
Edwin Brown wrote:
> In article ,
> Raymond Blum wrote:
> >I second that "uuuuhhhh... no"
> >
> > I have worked with WebLogic, JRun and Tomcat (although not JBoss)
> >
> > JRun is quick to install and runs pretty well but it one of the
> >flakiest and most poorly documented. IMHO the time that you spend trying
> >to figure out the poor examples and inadequate JRun documentation would
> >be better spent working with Tomcat (and most likely JBoss)
> I evaluated WebLogic, JRun, JBoss, Orion, Bluestone, Borland AppServer,
> and some others.
>
> Part of my evaluation was ease of initial setup and the amount of time
> needed to get a simple "Hello World" application up and running. (There
> were more criteria, but the initial setup counts heavily, to me).
>
> And the p*ss poor documentation of JRun doomed it. Sure, I could get
> servlets and JSP's running quickly, but the core of the system that
> I am aiding in designing and building, requires session and entity EJBs,
> accessed within the app server environment and external to the
> enviornment.
[ Part 17.2, "Card for Ingren Jack Kau" Text/X-VCARD (Name: "kau.vcf") 15 lines. ]
[ Not Shown. Use the "V" command to view or save to address book. ]
[ Part 18: "Included Message" ]
Date: 6 Sep 2001 00:31:18 -0400
From: Edwin Brown
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.beans, comp.lang.java.databases,
comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
In article ,
Ingren Jack Kau wrote:
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>All,
>
> If you compare JRun with WebLogic, WebSphere BlueStone, I cannot argue that.
> But the poor soul want a recommendation of something he can get his hand wet.
> How can you expect him to get weblogic, webSphere or BlueStone?
WebLogic has 30 day free evaluation period. I'm not saying that a person can
download it once, install it, and then after 30 days, reinstall it, but....
> May be it's only me but I have the worst experience with jBoss (not TomCat).
> I can hardly figure out how to get the basic thing working with jBoss.
> But I need more than Servlet + JSP.
>
>Jack
I cut my teeth using the Orion app server. Of course, I then had to learn
about Ant at the same time.
I'm still learning. I believe after 1 year of solid J2EE work,
I will be able to call myself a journeyman. And, this is even though I
have 16 years experience in the software field.
No one should expect to get this down cold in a short time. Someone could
probably do a serious thesis topic on use of deployment descriptors in the
J2EE framework. (Okay, maybe I'm 1/2 joking...)
Orion is free. It has a decent moderate-traffic mail list going. It needs
some work with documentation, but it's still far better than JRun's
documentation. And JMS isn't quite there, yet, for Orion, at least the version
I have running, anyway.
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 11:05:06 +0100
From: Tom Anderson
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.help, comp.lang.java.programmer,
comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: serious newbie - what to set up for learning environment?
On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, Raymond Blum wrote:
> JRun is quick to install and runs pretty well but it one of the
> flakiest and most poorly documented. IMHO the time that you spend
> trying to figure out the poor examples and inadequate JRun
> documentation would be better spent working with Tomcat (and most
> likely JBoss)
i've found jBoss to be extremely easy to set up and use, but then i was
only using it for EJB work. to do servlet stuff, i ran tomcat in a
separate process and hooked the components up via RMI. it's not very fast,
and it probably has some other drawbacks, but it works. more recent
version of jBoss have in-process tomcat or jetty integration, but i
haven't tried those yet.
tom
--
TORG GROWS TIRED OF OBEYING PUNY HUMANS. SOON TORG WILL BREAK FREE AND
CRUSH THEM WITH HIS METAL CLAWS. In the meantime, Torg enjoys making
generic acid music.
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:26:55 +0100
From: Neil Waltman
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Questions About Java Developer Groups
I would appreciate the views of Java developers on how developer groups
work:
1. It is apparent that Java can be taught and tested in the academic world
as a procedural language, largely missing the advantages of object
technology - encapsulation, polymorphism, inheritance, etc. Presumably the
same thing happens in the commercial world. In your experience, what is the
best way to determine from outside whether a particular group of developers
is using the language to its full advantage? Do you have a "litmus
paper"test?
2. What is the best role in a developer group for a newly qualified Java
programmer? Considering the new person who in your experience was most
useful to their group, what did that person do?
3. Who is usually responsible for deciding which new developers should be
hired - the head developer? How is this person usually identified?
4. In the development process, how is work best allocated? Do you separate
design, implementation, GUI, documentation, maintenance? Which is the best
place to start?
5. How is the performance of your group measured?
6. How do you measure the performance of individual programmers/developers?
Is there a hard measure?
Thank you.
[ Part 3: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:31:53 -0400
From: Paul Mclachlan
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Questions About Java Developer Groups
"Neil Waltman" wrote in message
news:3b862a36@news-uk..uk...
> 1. It is apparent that Java can be taught and tested in the academic
world
> as a procedural language, largely missing the advantages of object
> technology - encapsulation, polymorphism, inheritance, etc. Presumably
the
> same thing happens in the commercial world. In your experience, what is
the
> best way to determine from outside whether a particular group of
developers
> is using the language to its full advantage? Do you have a "litmus
> paper"test?
Using Java (or any language) to it's full advantage is extremely difficult.
Even for programmers that have the knowledge to do this, it isn't impossible
that using advanced features (like nested inner classes acting as adapters)
would simply confuse maintainers. I think Java is less prone to this than,
say, C++: there are fewer opportunities for 'obfuscation through
cleverness'.
In general, I like to judge a developer based on what he/she has built. For
a given problem, what alternatives did he/she consider? If there are
standards or standard APIs in place, were they aware of them? (It's a big
red flag to me if they were not) If they didn't use the standards, why not?
It generally isn't useful to ask about the definition of polymorphism or
what-have-you. Even if the respondant didn't use the techniques they may
well have been taught the definitions by rote.
> 2. What is the best role in a developer group for a newly qualified Java
> programmer? Considering the new person who in your experience was most
> useful to their group, what did that person do?
I prefer intelligence to 'just' experience. Given a choice between a smart
college grad with little language exposure & an average developer with 3
years Java I'd go with the college grad. Of course.. a smart developers
with 3 years Java is better still (when you can find them). Java is just so
large that no-one can really know it all; all you can hope for is that your
developers are able to make themselves aware of existing API's & standards
as they need them (as opposed to blindly re-inventing the wheel & running
into problems that have been previously solved). It is much more important,
then, that you hire someone capable of learning than hiring someone who has
done it before.
That said, in certain areas, experience is an essential qualifier because it
isn't possible to be good at it right out of college. For instance, systems
programming type stuff, where it's very hard to be aware of alternatives
because they aren't listed, JavaDoc style. ;)
> 3. Who is usually responsible for deciding which new developers should be
> hired - the head developer? How is this person usually identified?
We have several engineers interview candidates & then just get in a room to
get a consensus decision. If there isn't a consensus or it's unclear, the
decision can be made by management on other grounds: what is our schedule?
Can we afford to wait another couple of months before hiring someone to find
the 'right person', or do we need someone now?
> 4. In the development process, how is work best allocated? Do you
separate
> design, implementation, GUI, documentation, maintenance? Which is the
best
> place to start?
Everyone takes part in design, including QA & management. It's the most
fun, & it engenders a shared vision for what you're building. Maintenence
is generally assigned to the person who last modified the piece of code that
the error occurred in (because, after you've modified something it instantly
becomes your fault if it breaks ;p~).
GUI vs Backend is definately a seperation of development teams.
Documentation.. people doc their own code, but in terms of manuals or
whatever we have a seperate set of technical writers.
> 5. How is the performance of your group measured?
By the end product & how close we were to schedule, mainly.
> 6. How do you measure the performance of individual
programmers/developers?
> Is there a hard measure?
Everyone who works with said individual has to opportunity to provide
feedback. It certainly isn't a hard measurement.
[ Part 4: "Included Message" ]
Date: 5 Sep 2001 09:46:19 -0500
From: Galen Boyer
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Questions About Java Developer Groups
On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, paul.mclachlan@ wrote:
> I prefer intelligence to 'just' experience. Given a choice
> between a smart college grad with little language exposure & an
> average developer with 3 years Java I'd go with the college
> grad. Of course.. a smart developers with 3 years Java is
> better still (when you can find them).
Another thing that counts high is if you are able to tell if the
person _really_ wants to do the work instead of just _really_
wants a job. Genuine enthusiasm on a really smart college grad
is a star in the making.
--
Galen Boyer
It seems to me, I remember every single thing I know.
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 19:13:41 -0400
From: zzappster
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Questions About Java Developer Groups
> Genuine enthusiasm on a really smart college grad
> is a star in the making.
Genuine enthusiasm on a really smart 50 year old is a star in the making
also. Although you may not have intended it, ageism is showing here.
It can be as simple following up on someone else's comment and the
stereotype of the older worker is propagated.
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[ Part 6: "Included Message" ]
Date: 5 Sep 2001 21:14:13 -0500
From: Galen Boyer
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Questions About Java Developer Groups
On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, im@theboiling.point wrote:
> Genuine enthusiasm on a really smart 50 year old is a star in
> the making also.
Not really. That guy doesn't have much learning time left before
his career is over.
> Although you may not have intended it, ageism is showing here.
I didn't intend it, but the fact that young, people were talked
about as stars in the making, would accomplish whatever the #$%^
ageism is, I'm sure.
> It can be as simple following up on someone else's comment and
> the stereotype of the older worker is propagated.
What is the stereotype of an older worker that I am propagating?
Older workers are just that, older. The closer they near
retirement, the less attractive they are to new employers.
Hiding from this truth doesn't help the older worker get a job.
--
Galen Boyer
It seems to me, I remember every single thing I know.
[ Part 7: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2001 21:15:29 -0700
From: Jon A. Cruz
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Questions About Java Developer Groups
Galen Boyer wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, im@theboiling.point wrote:
>
> > Genuine enthusiasm on a really smart 50 year old is a star in
> > the making also.
>
> Not really. That guy doesn't have much learning time left before
> his career is over.
Gee. I guess someone had better tell Knuth that. I guess he's been
living on borrowed time for well over a decade.
> > It can be as simple following up on someone else's comment and
> > the stereotype of the older worker is propagated.
>
> What is the stereotype of an older worker that I am propagating?
> Older workers are just that, older. The closer they near
> retirement, the less attractive they are to new employers.
> Hiding from this truth doesn't help the older worker get a job.
That's the stereotype.
As a contrast, I've seen older workers who are just that, older. They
have been around the block, and can get a two-week solution done and
tested because of what they have under their belts, rather than a fresh
person who might spend months doing a roll-your-own solution... And they
could spot a bug in 5 minutes that would take a younger person weeks to
track down... And they can sit in a design meeting and from experience
can rattle off the design patterns that should be considered for the
current problem...
To balance the retirement factor (BTW, I've been at companies where we
had 35-year olds retiring), there's the factor of experience and a good
software engineer can easily bring that to bear cross-language. And I
know that it is a major plus for employers (at least at many larger
companies). Often it's called "being seasoned" as opposed to "being
green"
Many of those in hiring and managing positions are familiar with
Ecclesiastes 1:9
--
Wind the Frog!
[ Part 8: "Included Message" ]
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 07:51:30 -0400
From: Mike Hebert
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Questions About Java Developer Groups
Remeber that the old guy has already made most of the mistakes the new is
only about too.
I don't hire based on age I hire based on qualifications and the position.
I like to use my older engineers to groom the new guys. Being hungry is
great, but can also be error prone. A nice mix I believe is best.
-Mike-
"Jon A. Cruz" wrote in message
news:3B96F861.D31555A8@...
> Galen Boyer wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, im@theboiling.point wrote:
> >
> > > Genuine enthusiasm on a really smart 50 year old is a star in
> > > the making also.
> >
> > Not really. That guy doesn't have much learning time left before
> > his career is over.
>
> Gee. I guess someone had better tell Knuth that. I guess he's been
> living on borrowed time for well over a decade.
>
>
> > > It can be as simple following up on someone else's comment and
> > > the stereotype of the older worker is propagated.
> >
> > What is the stereotype of an older worker that I am propagating?
> > Older workers are just that, older. The closer they near
> > retirement, the less attractive they are to new employers.
> > Hiding from this truth doesn't help the older worker get a job.
>
> That's the stereotype.
>
> As a contrast, I've seen older workers who are just that, older. They
> have been around the block, and can get a two-week solution done and
> tested because of what they have under their belts, rather than a fresh
> person who might spend months doing a roll-your-own solution... And they
> could spot a bug in 5 minutes that would take a younger person weeks to
> track down... And they can sit in a design meeting and from experience
> can rattle off the design patterns that should be considered for the
> current problem...
>
> To balance the retirement factor (BTW, I've been at companies where we
> had 35-year olds retiring), there's the factor of experience and a good
> software engineer can easily bring that to bear cross-language. And I
> know that it is a major plus for employers (at least at many larger
> companies). Often it's called "being seasoned" as opposed to "being
> green"
>
> Many of those in hiring and managing positions are familiar with
> Ecclesiastes 1:9
>
> --
> Wind the Frog!
>
>
>
[ Part 9: "Included Message" ]
Date: 6 Sep 2001 08:20:05 -0500
From: Galen Boyer
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Questions About Java Developer Groups
On Wed, 05 Sep 2001, joncruz@ wrote:
> As a contrast, I've seen older workers who are just that,
> older. They have been around the block, and can get a two-week
> solution done and tested because of what they have under their
> belts, rather than a fresh person who might spend months doing
> a roll-your-own solution... And they could spot a bug in 5
> minutes that would take a younger person weeks to track
> down... And they can sit in a design meeting and from
> experience can rattle off the design patterns that should be
> considered for the current problem...
And that is why talented experienced people get hired, will
always get hired and their age becomes secondary to the
discussion. But the discussion was, to sum it up, a college grad
who knows nothing vs someone who knows a bit, but is lazy.
(Maybe I read it different, and if I did I'm sorry) I would
_never_ take a college grad over an older worked who had worked
on everything we were working on, unless he was on his deathbed
or he was just plain wierd or mean or had some other unlikable
personality trait.
> Often it's called "being seasoned" as opposed to "being green"
I've worked with plenty of "green" newbies, was one myself, and I
really wanted a "seasoned" guy almost all the time, but then,
when the "green" one was really learning alot and excited, I knew
he was going to be good in the near future, but at that point in
time, I still wanted _seasoned_.
--
Galen Boyer
It seems to me, I remember every single thing I know.
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 08:58:32 +0800
From: Anthony Shipley
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Questions About Java Developer Groups
Galen Boyer wrote:
> I would
>_never_ take a college grad over an older worked who had worked
>on everything we were working on, unless he was on his deathbed
>or he was just plain wierd or mean or had some other unlikable
>personality trait.
Bugger. That rules me out on all three counts.
anthony shipley
2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2
[ Part 11: "Included Message" ]
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 09:03:43 +0800
From: Anthony Shipley
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Questions About Java Developer Groups
Galen Boyer wrote:
On a more serious note, a news report a few days ago (Sorry, I haven't been able
to find it so you'll have to rely on my memory) indicated that, in Australia at
least, companies would to do with IT workers up to 65 years old (or older - I
don't recall) to fill required vacancies.
I can't vouch for the thoroughness of the report in investigating the impact of
new technology or the availability of resources from (current) 2nd/3rd world
countries.
anthony shipley
2 + 2 = 5 for sufficiently large values of 2
[ Part 12: "Included Message" ]
Date: 6 Sep 2001 08:28:10 -0500
From: Galen Boyer
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Questions About Java Developer Groups
On Wed, 05 Sep 2001, joncruz@ wrote:
>> Not really. That guy doesn't have much learning time left
>> before his career is over.
>
> Gee. I guess someone had better tell Knuth that. I guess he's
> been living on borrowed time for well over a decade.
Yes, I guess if you continue to work past normal retirement time,
then you really aren't retired then. Most normal people start
biding their time as they get near retirement, _aren't_looking to
learn a whole bunch of new skills and _are_ sharpening up their
golf clubs. But with the technology age, programming,
engineering and basically tinkering with stuff is a hobby for
many, so this stereotype may be falling. But with factory
workers, construction workers, restaurant workers, sales guys,
... I can think of many industries where it is natural to start
looking at someone's age if you will need their services in the
future as well as today.
--
Galen Boyer
It seems to me, I remember every single thing I know.
[ Part 13: "Included Message" ]
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 12:50:10 -0400
From: Anonymous
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Questions About Java Developer Groups
> > Genuine enthusiasm on a really smart 50 year old is a star in
> > the making also.
>
> Not really. That guy doesn't have much learning time left before
> his career is over.
>
> > Although you may not have intended it, ageism is showing here.
>
> I didn't intend it, but the fact that young, people were talked
> about as stars in the making, would accomplish whatever the #$%^
> ageism is, I'm sure.
>
> > It can be as simple following up on someone else's comment and
> > the stereotype of the older worker is propagated.
>
> What is the stereotype of an older worker that I am propagating?
> Older workers are just that, older. The closer they near
> retirement, the less attractive they are to new employers.
> Hiding from this truth doesn't help the older worker get a job.
Mr. Boyer, you have a bias against older workers. You are prejudiced
against older workers. Your comments above make that crystal clear.
Comments like "doesn't have much learning time left" are an insult to
older workers and just plain wrong.
Your "facts and truths" are such in your closed mind only. I'm glad I
do not have to work with you.
The saddest part is that you don't even know you have the prejudicial
attiude. Good luck as you get older and run into people with attitudes
such as yourself.
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[ Part 14: "Included Message" ]
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 19:09:48 -0400
From: zzappster
Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools
Subject: Re: Questions About Java Developer Groups
> > 2. What is the best role in a developer group for a newly...
> I prefer intelligence to 'just' experience. Given a choice between a
> smart college grad with little language exposure & an average developer
> with 3 years Java...
What might your choice be between a smart 50 year old, a smart college
grad and and average developer with 3 years Java?
It might not have occurred to you but your comment above reflects a
subtle ageism. It may not have been your intent but others pick up on
your comments and a bad situation just gets worse.
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