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NBC News

MEET THE PRESS

Sunday, September 23, 2007

GUESTS: Senator HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY) 2008 Presidential Contender ALAN GREENSPAN Author, "The Age of Turbulence: Adventures in a New World"

MODERATOR/PANELIST: Tim Russert

This is a rush transcript provided for the information and convenience of the press. Accuracy is not guaranteed.

In case of doubt, please check with MEET THE PRESS - NBC NEWS (202)885-4598 (Sundays: (202)885-4200)

Meet the Press (NBC News) - Sunday, September 23, 2007

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MR. TIM RUSSERT: Our issues this Sunday: the Iraq war, healthcare, campaign fund-raising and more. Our Meet the Candidates 2008 series continues. A former first lady, she has served as United States senator from New York for seven years and is now the front-runner for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination. With us, Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Then, a Sunday morning exclusive. The former chairman of the Federal Reserve's new book, "The Age of Turbulence," is making headlines in Washington and on Wall Street. Our guest, Alan Greenspan.

But first, joining us now is someone who'd like to be the first woman president of the United States, Senator Hillary Clinton of New York.

Welcome back to MEET THE PRESS.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY): Thank you, Tim. It's great to be back with you.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Clinton, you told Newsweek magazine that the war in Iraq was the most important vote you cast in the U.S. Senate. I'd like to begin there. You spoke to a labor union this week, and this is what you said. Let's watch.

(Videotape)

SEN. CLINTON: I have voted against funding this war, and I will vote against funding this war as long as it takes.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: As you well know, you voted to authorize the war, voted to fund the war at least 10 times. Are you now saying that you will not vote one more penny for the war in Iraq?

SEN. CLINTON: Tim, I am saying that, and, you know, I've been guided by what I believe is the principle that should govern any decisions that a member of the Senate or anyone in public life makes, and that is I try to do what I think is best for my country and for the troops who serve it. And I have seen no evidence that this administration is willing to change course in any significant way. We're now nearly at 3800 dead, we have more than 30,000 injured. The Iraqi government has failed to fulfill its part of the bargain to deal with the political issues that all of us know have to be addressed. I don't think the Bush administration has pursued the diplomatic agenda the way that it needed to be pursued. And there is no military solution. And these extraordinary, brave young men and women should begin to come home out of refereeing this sectarian civil war.

I voted against funding last spring. I understand that we're going to have a vote shortly about funding, and I will vote against it because I think that it's the only way that we can demonstrate clearly that we have to change direction. The president has not been willing to do that, and he still has enough support among the Republicans in the Senate that he doesn't have to. And so, on occasion after occasion, I have made it clear that if the president does not begin to extricate us from Iraq before he leaves office, which apparently, based on what he himself has said, he will not, when I am president, I will immediately ask my secretary of defense, the Joint Chiefs of

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Meet the Press (NBC News) - Sunday, September 23, 2007

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Staff, my security advisers, to tell me exactly what the state of play is. I don't believe we even know everything we need to know about what the plans for withdrawal are, how best to implement that. And I will end our involvement at the level that we've seen that has not proven to be successful.

MR. RUSSERT: The Daily News, your home paper in New York, said that your positions on Iraq remain a tangle of contradictory and shifting elements, and I want to go through those and see if we can sort it through for the viewers and the voters. A new brochure that you've passed out to the voters in New Hampshire says this: "Hillary will begin immediate phased withdrawal with a definite timetable to bring our troops home."

When you were last on MEET THE PRESS, I asked you specifically about a definite timetable to bring troops home, and this is what you said. "I think that would be a mistake." So don't--"We don't want to send a signal to the insurgents, to the terrorists that we're going to be out of here at some, you know, date certain. I think that would be like a green light to go ahead and just bide your time."

And then in December of '06: "I reject a rigid timetable that the terrorists can exploit."

And a year ago in September of '06: "I've taken a lot of heat from my friends who've said, `Please, just, you know, throw in the towel and" "let's get out by a date certain.' I don't think that's responsible."

You've changed your mind.

SEN. CLINTON: Well, the circumstances on the ground have certainly compelled me to continue to evaluate what is in the best interest of our country and our troops. And it became unfortunately clear to me that if we were to maintain the failed policy of this president, we will be entangled in Iraq with many more deaths, with very little to show for it, Tim. I have the highest admiration for General Petraeus and for his officers and the men and women on the ground in Iraq. But there is no military solution, and the failure of the Iraqi government and of the Bush administration to deal on either the political or the diplomatic front has put our young men and women at risk. There is no doubt that they can fulfill whatever military mission they're given; they have. They were asked to get rid of Saddam Hussein and they did. They were asked to give the Iraqis the security for fair and free elections and they did. And they were asked to give the Iraqi government the space and time to start making these very difficult political decisions. Our military did everything it was asked to do. Unfortunately, I don't think that the Iraqi government or the Bush administration has done what only they can do. And the only way to begin to keep faith with the men and women who are serving us is to begin to bring them home, and that is what I think we have to do now.

MR. RUSSERT: Let me bring you back to October 10th of 2002 when you stood on the floor of the United States Senate and voted to give George Bush the authority to go into Iraq. Let's listen.

(Videotape, October 10, 2002)

SEN. CLINTON: Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort

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and sanctuary to terrorists, including al-Qaeda members. Any vote that might lead to war should be hard, but I cast it with conviction. So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: As we sit here this morning, Saddam rebuilding a nuclear weapons program, just not true; giving aid and sanctuary to al-Qaeda, debatable. Your vote in the best interests of the nation. Do you believe that your vote was in the best interest of the nation?

SEN. CLINTON: Well, I cast a sincere vote based on my assessment at the time, and I take responsibility for that vote. I also said on the floor that day that this was not a vote for preemptive war. I thought it made sense to put inspectors back in. As you recall, Saddam had driven out the UN inspectors in 1998 and the situation in Iraq was opaque, hard to determine, and I thought that it made sense to put inspectors back in. Now, obviously, if I had known then what I know now about what the president would do with the authority that was given him, I would not have voted the way that I did.

But the real question before us today is what do we do going forward? We are continuing to lose Americans in Iraq. We are continuing to see the failure of the Iraqi government. We see no change in real policy that moves us toward a political resolution from our own administration because I think even they have to admit that the tactical success that we've seen in al Anbar province and dealing with al-Qaeda in Iraq is not going to resolve the ongoing sectarian civil war that is besetting Iraq. So I think, Tim, that, obviously, from my perspective what I'm focused on is what to do now, and I take that as seriously as I can, which is why I've said I will not vote for additional funding unless it is part of an overall policy to begin to deal with these other problems that we face in Iraq.

MR. RUSSERT: But, Senator, besides the vote to authorize, there are three other important votes during that time period. Here's how Congressional Quarterly wrote about it: "A Byrd amendment to assert Congress' right to declare war was rejected," you voted against that. The amendment by Senator Durbin "that would have require Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program to be an `imminent' rather than a `continuing' threat," you said no to that. And an amendment by Carl Levin "that would allow Congress to vote on authorizing force only after President Bush had exhausted all options with the United Nations," more diplomacy, you voted no on that. You seem very determined at that time to march to war.

SEN. CLINTON: Well, I also voted, Tim, to limit the president's authority to a year. That was another one of Senator Byrd's amendments which I strongly supported. It was not successful. I have seen, obviously now, what has occurred by this president's use of the authority that he was given, and I regret the way that he used authority. But I think it's important to recognize that the United Nations is a very important tool in international diplomacy, in peacekeeping to bring the world together. But I do not want to give the United Nations a veto over actions taken by any president.

I believe you have to work with the United Nations. And I saw my husband, when he believed it imperative to take action in Bosnia and Kosovo, unable to get congressional authority to act, unable to pull together the United Nations, but working with NATO to take action against ethnic

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cleansing. Every situation is different. At the time, I thought it did make sense to go back to the United Nations to put inspectors on the ground. But I don't believe it's in the best interests of our country to give the United Nations what amounts to a veto over presidential action. I think that the Congress and the president should determine what presidential action should be.

MR. RUSSERT: Is it fair to say that the most important vote you cast in the Senate, in your own words, on authorizing the war in Iraq, was wrong?

SEN. CLINTON: It's fair to say that the president misused the authority that he was given, and if I had the opportunity to act now based on what I know now, I never would've voted that way. But I think it's important to take responsibility and then to try to deal with the situation that we face today. You know, we can talk about 2002 or we can look forward to what is a continuing involvement in a sectarian civil war with no end in sight, and I believe it's imperative that we try to create a political consensus to move the president and the Republicans in Congress to extricating us from this civil war. And I've said many times that if the president does not do it before he leaves office, when I am president I will.

MR. RUSSERT: Let me show you an ad that has caused a lot of controversy in this debate about Iraq. took this ad out, "General Petraeus or General Betray Us?: Cooking the Books for the White House." Do you believe that General David Petraeus has betrayed the American people?

SEN. CLINTON: Absolutely not. He is a man of great honor and distinction who has served admirably. I don't condone anything like that, and I have voted against those who would impugn the patriotism and the service of the people who wear the uniform of our country. I don't believe that that should be said about General Petraeus, and I condemn that. I didn't think it should've been said about Senator Cleland or Senator Kerry. I think it's important that we end this kind of attacks on the patriotism of those who serve our country.

But let's be clear about this: This is not a debate about an ad. This is a debate about the direction we should pursue in Iraq, and if we focus on an ad, even though we have all voted, in one way or another, to condemn it and believe that we should cease any such impugning and attacks on anyone who serves our country, then, again, we're not focused on what the real problem is.

The real problem is a policy in Iraq that has failed, and unfortunately, it is clear that the president does not intend to change direction before he leaves office. That means we will lose, as we have every month this year, more Americans than we lost last year. And there is no end in sight, and the president has 15 months left. And I really believe that the country is against his policy, a majority of the Congress is against his policy. But a very concerted effort in the Senate by Republicans who continue to support the president has prevented us from implementing the kind of guidelines, benchmarks, timelines that actually reflect the reality on the ground. And I'm going to continue to fighting for that in the Senate and when I'm president to begin moving as expeditiously and responsibly as I can to bring our troops home.

MR. RUSSERT: Is it fair to--(clears throat) excuse me--is it fair to say, then, that this ad was an unhelpful distraction to the real debate about the war, and you wish that had not taken it?

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