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Dave :Hey, everybody. Welcome to Funnel Hacker Radio. I'm your host, Dave Woodward. Today, I'm super excited today. I have the opportunity to have in David Siteman Garland, or DSG, as many people know him by. Welcome.David:Hello, Dave. We've got a Dave and a David making a right here, so it's going to be good.Dave :I can't wait. I am so excited. For those of you guys who don't know David, or DSG, this is the man who basically is responsible for most people getting online selling courses. No one has done more courses or have taught more people about how to actually create courses online and sell them more than David. I'm so excited to have you, bud.David:Awesome. I'm pumped to be here, for sure.Dave :If you don't mind, tell people just a little of your background so they understand where you came from, everything from your podcast to The Rise to the Top, all the way to where you're at right now.David:Yeah, sure. It's always funny when people ask me that, about my background. I was actually working out. I do CrossFit, and I was at the gym today, and someone's like ... We were working out, lifting weights. He's like, "Tell me about your business," and I'm like, "How much time do we have?" Do you know what I mean, with these weights? As you know, when you have an internet business, a lot of people, it takes a little bit of an explanation. Let me give the extreme Cliff's Notes version here, for sure.In a nutshell, I started in 2008, online. I was actually in the hockey industry before that. I worked in professional inline hockey, of all completely random things there. I started with, really, a web show and a podcast called The Rise to the Top. That's how I started, and what I did was I interviewed entrepreneurs. I interviewed everything from mom-and-pop shops, to the Tony Hsiehs at Zappos, to the Seth Godins, a whole mix of people. I'm just trying to think how many I can name-drop here in 10 seconds.I started with a podcast, and I was really trying to figure out, "How do I turn this into a business?" I didn't know. I was making it up as I went and flying off the seat of my butt trying to figure this out. I came in with no connections, no audience, anything like that. I built up the podcast over a few years. Our big way of making money back then, Dave, do you know what it was? Take a guess.Dave :(2:24) My gosh. Back then, I guess, people were doing everything from AdSense to ... gosh, 2008? All sorts of crazy things.David:I know, right. It's like 1943 in internet terms. Really, the way that I was able to make money with my podcast was sponsorships. That was, really, the primary thing that I had. I was out there selling them. Our big one, at the time, was Citrix, like GoToMeeting, GoToWebinar, that kinds of stuff. Also, I was, by accident, building my personal brand up a little bit as well. I ended up with a book deal. I did some speaking, did some coaching related to building an audience, as I became decent at that, back in the day.The problem was this, is that when you have a sponsorship-based model, it's a little bit terrifying because, at the end of the day, you're basically reliant on that company, because if they woke up on the wrong side of the bed, or if someone gets fired, or they just wake up and say, "You know what, David, DSG? We don't like you anymore," whatever it is. Now, that didn't happen, but that's a very, very scary thing, when you're going through a business, because you don't really control your own destiny.Really, by accident, I discovered the world of online courses, really by interviews on my show. When I was doing my show, I started to run into this world of online course creators that I called mediapreneurs, people like Marie Forleo and Ryan Lee, those types of people in the world, and immediately I was hooked. I was hooked, line, and sinker on this because I loved that you could help people at scale, help people get results. You could do it from your pajamas, if you will, at home. You could make an incredible living.(4:05) What I really loved about it, besides helping people, was the lifestyle associated with it, meaning that I talked to way too many entrepreneurs, and, Dave, I'm sure you have to, just throughout your life, where they're making quote-unquote good money, or they have great businesses, but they don't even have time to go to the bathroom. They don't see their family. That last trip they took, they were on the computer 24/7.Dave :Oh, I totally agree.David:I didn't want to be that, and I saw that online courses, there was an opportunity for that as well. I dove in. I was a crazy, mad scientist of online courses. I read everything I could. I researched anything I could. I interviewed everything I could for years, to try to figure this out, and then I launched my first course called Create Awesome Interviews. You can see where that came from. After doing 500-plus interviews, those are the questions that I got back in a day, were, "Well, how do I do online interviews," and things like that.I remember the first launch did $19,800. Nothing that we're going to retire on, but I've got to tell you, I was more excited about that than anything I've probably ever done in businessDave :That is so awesome.David:I was like, "Oh my God." You know the feeling? I was like, "I took something that I know, got it down, and people are actually paying to learn it. Look. They're making their own show." There was no better feeling. I'm one of those people, when I get the bug, I go all in. I started creating more courses, more launches, more funnels, kept improving, improving. It wasn't all rainbows, sprinkles, and unicorns. There were stakes and this and that and shenanigans, and all that kind of stuff. But over time, starting building this into a very successful business where, in less than 24 months from launching that very first course, we hit over 7 figures in sales.Dave :That's crazy. That's awesome.David:Now I'm thinking, "Well, now what do I do?" We got this. We were really rocking it with courses. 24 months later, people now were asking me, they were saying, "Well, David, I want to do a course, and I'm seeing you're having this success with courses. What do I do? How do I take my expertise and turn it into an online course like you're doing?" Et cetera, et cetera. That's when, really, the big shift in my business happened, and we launched Create Awesome Online Courses.(6:16) Ever since then, that's been my number one program and where my entire business is centered around. Once that took off, and once that got going, and once I saw the results people were getting, and that's what it's all about, your customers getting results, I said, "You know what? This is what I want to do. This is exactly what I want to do." In 2013, we shut down the podcast. I'd been doing it for 5-plus years. I was a little burnt out and ready to move on. That is where we focused ever since then, has been teaching people and helping them with software education, et cetera, with online courses.Now, I'm super proud to say that we've got 3,000-plus students in 100 countries that have courses on every topic, from kindergarten teaching to snowboarding and everything in between. That's where I get the most excited. We have several now-millionaire students, a lot with multiple 6 figures, a lot in 6 figures, and a lot in 5 figures. That's the 5, 6-minute version of the story.Dave :I absolutely love it. David, one of the parts I am most excited about, that whole thing, is kind of like what you were referring to, there's nothing better than having your students have success. We've obviously seen that a lot with ClickFunnels, but I think the part I ... and why I was so excited to interview you, is there are so many people who feel like they have some knowledge they want to get out there, but they just don't have any idea how to do it. They're always afraid, thinking, "Oh, maybe I just don't know it that well," or, "Maybe no one's going to pay for it." What type of advice do you give people when they first get started?David:Yeah. A lot of people come in, they're excited about this idea, and they're like, "Okay. Well, now what the heck do I do?" I think the first thing you have to think about is there's 2 types of people. There's people that either come in with a great idea, or they don't have an idea yet, when it comes to a course. A lot of people get held back by a lot of ... I call them myths. People thinking, "Well, I can't do this," or, "There's already another course on my subject," or, "I'm not an expert," or, "I'm not going to figure out the technology." That's 3 of the big ones.Number 1 is, as long as you are ahead of the people that you're teaching, you're an expert.Dave :(8:27) I love that.David:Does that make sense?Dave :Oh, man, only because I've lived that in my own life too many times. Yes, it totally makes sense.David:Yeah, and that's where I start to think about people, because you've got to change your mindset about this. If you come in thinking, "I've got nothing to offer," you're going to have nothing to offer. Perfect example, I've got a student of mine who teaches French. She teaches French, but this is the big difference. She teaches French to adults because she learned how to speak French as an adult.That's a massive difference than someone that's on Rosetta Stone or learned French when you're 2 years old because it's easier, whatever it might be. This is very different. Imagine if you're an adult, and you're looking around, and you see this 45-year-old woman who said, "I learned French 2 years ago. Use this system." Boom. It's not like she's the world's greatest French expert in the world. Do you know what I mean?Dave :Oh, yeah.David:The thing is, she has a great gift of something that she can teach. So start thinking about that, in terms of expertise.The second thing is that you've got to think about that the technology's never been easier for online courses. It takes me, sometimes, 5 minutes to remember my Wi-Fi password. That's what we're dealing with here. You do not need to be ... Back when I was first starting to do online courses, you kind of had to be a bit of a techie. You had to hack things together. I had to hire stuff out. It was annoying. There was a lot of stuff that you had to do back then.Now, between tools like ClickFunnels, tools like one of my software called Course Cats, which allows you to create a course website super easily, it's just become so much easier for either you to do yourself or to simply outsource it to a virtual assistant or someone else. Do not let the tech hold you back. That's one of the biggest things that I could possibly say to people.(10:16) The other thing is about competition, and competition is a good thing. If you go out there and you're like, "Well, I can't find any other courses. I can't find any other experts. I can't find any other books. I can't find any conferences," or anything related to your topic, that's probably telling you something right there. That's a red flag. Like my example here, imagine the second cookbook author. If they went into the book store and they'd already saw a cookbook, do you think they were like, "Oh, crap. There's already a cookbook. I'm out of here"?Dave :No.David:"It's over." There's always a way to be the vegan hot dog cookbook, or whatever it might be. There's always a way that you can stick out from the pack, but number 1 is through your personality, your story, and your relationship with your people. No one's going to teach it the way that you teach it, and there's plenty of room out there.What I would encourage people, once they get passed those myths, a great thing that I like to do, if you're not still sure about what your topic is or which way you want to go, if you have an audience, great opportunity to do a survey and say, "Hey. I'm thinking about ... " I have one survey question that's worked out very, very well for people, and it's simply sending them out an email and saying, "What do you want to know more about blank?" Now, you don't type blank. Blank would be your topic. "What do you want to know more about losing 20 pounds over the age of 50? What do you want to know more about generating leads off of Instagram for attorneys," or whatever it might be, for your business. That can help to quantify as well.The other thing, if you still have no idea and you're looking to get started and you're like, "I just don't know what I'm an expert on," think about what do people come to you for? What do people ask you questions about online, at cocktail parties? What's something you're passionate about that people need help with, that you can do in a how-to situation? A lot of times, the topic is right under the nose, and it's something that you've already done.Dave :(12:20) Totally understand that. David, tell me, real quick, how large are some of these courses you find most people are creating?David:That's a good question. Meaning actual content?Dave :Yeah. That's always one of the things ... As I talk to people, they're like, "Oh my gosh. I just don't know if I have enough content to even create something like that."David:Yeah.Dave :"I get questions about this or that, but I don't know if I could really be an expert with this amount of content."David:Yeah. It's a phenomenal question, for sure. It's a great question. Here's the way to think about it, I got some secret sauce for this as well, is that one of the easiest things that you can do is, when you outline your course, basically you've got to think about your course as being a step-by-step journey or system that's going to take people from point X to point Y. A great exercise for someone ... and I'm going to make you, Dave, give me a random topic here that we know nothing about. Give me a random topic. Throw it out, right now.Dave :Raising butterflies.David:Raising butterflies. Awesome. Fantastic topic. Okay. Let's just say that your course is going to be 0 to 50 butterflies in a month. Okay?Dave :Okay.David:That's what it's going to be. What I would do is I'd get out a piece of paper, a document, or whatever, on my computer and I would write on the left side, or on the top, "Where are my customers at now? What's their situation right now?" The situation would be 0 butterflies. Then, at the bottom, you're going to write, "Where are they going to be after my course?" Because the key here, for the most successful courses, is they have a result, a concrete result that you're going to get to. The goal would then be that they've got 50 living butterflies and everything's happy and peachy-keen.(14:04) You have where they're at now, 0 butterflies, to 50 butterflies. Then you simply write in the steps. How do you get from there to there? Step 1 might be how to build the perfect butterfly house for less than $50. Step 2 could be how to, I don't know, plant the larva ... I don't know, whatever it is. Let's say we get down there and we've got a certain amount of steps. That becomes the framework for modules for online courses.Now, here's my big tip here for folks. You want to stay 12 or less, when it comes to modules. 12 or less when it comes to modules. Can you guess, Dave, why you would want to stick in that magic range?Dave :I would think people just can't consume that much, and they get bored afterwards and feel overwhelmed.David:That's exactly right. It hurts on both ends. It hurts your sales, and it also hurts people actually following through, because even if your modules are very short ... and modules, for those who don't know, it's just another term for chapters. Even if they're very short, imagine you get a course and there's 27 modules. You're like, "I will never get this done, ever." That increases refund rates. That increases people not getting results. That increases people not buying. That's no good.We have found a sweet spot, and we've seen this not only through our own courses but through thousands of students, of being 12 or less, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, if you like odd numbers, 5, 7. The thing is with that, it makes it manageable for folks. The length doesn't necessarily matter. The key is the result. When you're buying a course, when you're putting a course together for someone, it's the shortcut. It's not the longcut. It's the shortcut.Dave :I love that, yeah.David:That's the key thing to keep in mind here, when you're doing a course. If you can get people a result and get them there as fast and as safe as possible, I think you've got something for an online course. I think that's one of the key things. What I actually see is less people saying, "I don't have enough content." Instead, it's people like, "How can I jam in as much as humanly possible?" That's not really what the thing is. You just want to get them the result, and that's what a course is all about.Dave :(16:12) Oh, that's so cool. When you're looking at courses, how do you find out what the right price is?David:Good question, too. Pricing ... and this drives people up the wall, too, when it comes to pricing. I'll share with you a little story about my first course, with pricing and some great tips that I got and I'm a big believer in. My first course, Create Awesome Interviews, was $495. I wasn't privy enough to do $497 if I could go back I would go with the 7, magic number. Right? $495 was the price point on my first course. I remember, originally, I was going to do something very cheapo, like $97. What happened was I had a couple conversations that really changed my world, when it came to pricing.The first one was with Ryan Lee, who I mentioned earlier, and he said ... and this is a very interesting perspective. He said that, "Listen. It's going to take the same amount of effort, the same amount of blood, sweat, and tears to promote and make a $97 product successful, versus a $497, or $997, or $2,000. You should be in that top range, and you can make more money from less customers, so you're getting premium customers in," and we have found that to be very, very true, when it comes to pricing, is that when you get more premium, you get better people.What do I mean by that? Marie Forleo also had some great advice for me, and she said, "Have you ever gotten something for free in the mail or a free course or a free book? What do you do with it?" I said, "Nothing. I do nothing with it," and she goes, "Exactly, because you're not invested, and if you really care about your customer's results, you have to be at a premium price for them to take it seriously."(18:00) You might think to yourself, "Well, everyone loves saving money. Shouldn't I go cheapo, cheapo, cheapo?" It's absolutely not true, because we have found that when you increase your pricing and when you're in the top, and this is my big tip here, top 5% to 10% of your market, great things happen with your online course. If you end up going bargain basement, you're going to end up getting bargain-basement customers. As we all know, that's going to cause a nightmare.There's no pricing fairy that comes flying in and says, "You know what? You should be at the premium end of your market. You've done enough in your life." The thing is, my big, big tip for pricing is to be in the top 10% of your market. The more niche you can get, the more you can charge. Let me give you an example, Dave. One of our most successful students is a guy named Mark Dawson. Mark's over in England, and he had one of our biggest first-time launches of a course called Facebook Ads for Authors. I think his first launch did over $300k.Dave :Wow.David:It was crazy. Now it's in the multi-millions, and he's absolutely crushing it, and this was his very first course. Why? Well, one, Mark's got a great story anyway. He was an author. He writes mystery novels. I think it's something like that. The thing is, think about how specific they are. Dave, how many Facebook ads courses have you seen out there? Just pick one.Dave :Oh, I can't even count them all now. Yeah, it's crazy.David:Yeah. There's probably hundreds of them, but think about this. Let's say you're an author. Let's say you're an author, and the first course you come across is called Facebook Ads. You're like, "Oh, that sounds pretty nice." The second course you come about is Facebook Ads for Small Businesses, or something like that. You might be like, "Oh, that's a little bit more like me. Maybe I'll go for that." Then the third one you come across is Facebook Ads for Authors. If you're an author, which one are you going to go with?Dave :Oh, there's only one choice, for sure.David:Exactly. The more that you can niche down, it justifies, also, those higher-specific prices. People, a lot of times, think that pricing is based on length, or all that kind of stuff in your course. It's not at all. It's 100% based on value. I would encourage you to be at that premium end of your market, even if it's your very first course. There's absolutely no reason not to.Dave :(20:17) Oh, I absolutely love that kind of advice. I think people make a huge mistake in thinking that they can't get to that. We've seen it for ourselves, with ClickFunnels and stuff. Everyone's like, "Oh, you know what? You should just have a $9 amount per month," and I'm like, "It doesn't work that way."David:Right.Dave :We only want the clients who are really excited and interested and willing to work. Otherwise, you get terrible clients, and they never get the results they want, and your support just deals with a ton of problems all the time. That's some awesome advice.David:Exactly. It's like, "Do you want to be Saks Fifth Avenue, or do you want to be Walmart?"Dave :Yeah.David:That's up to you. You can be Walmart, which is a lot of stuff for pretty much everybody at a very, very low price, at a very, very low price, and your goal is just volume. How many people can you get in? As many people as possible. What about Saks Fifth Avenue? It's more of a curated, small amount for a very specific type of buyer, and that's where I like to go, and that's my advice for online courses because you end up with the people that actually want to be there, the people that are serious, and you can grow your business without needing thousands and thousands of customers. You could have 50 or 100 really good customers and have a very nice, sustainable business from that.Dave :I think that's just fantastic. Tell me, on your courses, do you see a lot of people creating membership sites out of this for long-term continuity, or ... It sounds like most of the courses you're talking about are primarily a finite amount of time, get a result. Do you upsell them to another course? What's the-?David:(22:00) Good question. Yeah. Yes. Actually, a lot of my students, what we teach is ... and we go through everything. We go through everything, from start to finish, meaning how are we going to put together a launch, and all that kind of stuff as well, through it, et cetera, et cetera. I think a good way to look at it, that we like to do, is like Jeff Walker, to a certain degree, is that I actually am a believer that people make a big mistake by creating a course and then immediately go on and create another course. I see that happen too often because ... Russel uses a great analogy, with you guys at ClickFunnels. I've heard this all the time. He said the equivalent of someone creating this amazing play and doing it on Broadway, having an amazing opening night and having a great two weeks, and then you shut down and create another play.The problem with that, you haven't taken it on the road. You haven't gone to Chicago. You haven't gone to Vegas. You haven't gone this. There's a lot more audience for people's courses than they think. What I always show people how to do is how to launch, how to take the results of those launch, and then make tweaks and do things like that, how to create up evergreen funnels so that, therefore, you're bringing in sales 24/7 through your course with personal things, big promotions, JV webinars, et cetera.It actually comes down to promoting your course more, is one of the big things that people miss out on, evergreen opportunities, JV opportunities, all that kind of stuff. Once it's on autopilot and really, really rocking it and crushing it, yeah, of course, you can go different routes, depending on what you want to do there. It might be a Mastermind. It might be software. It might be another course, et cetera. But what we really like to teach is this being your signature program.Another thing that you can do on that, too, is what I call a membership without having a membership. I wouldn't encourage this on the first time you launch, but something that as you get more experience and you actually have someone else to handle this for you, because trust me, you do not want to handle this yourself, is adding in longer-term payment plans. We have done this, and we're talking about like 12 payment plans, and something like that, Dave.Dave :Wow.David:For some of our courses. Yeah, 12. Which you might be thinking to yourself, "Holy bananas. You guys are out of your minds."Dave :I am.David:(24:12) By the way, is there some backend work on that? Absolutely, for sure. That has to be done, and there's things like that, but that ends up actually creating a lot of predictable income as well, as you can imagine. It's almost like you get those $97 re-bills, let's just use an example, every month. That adds up over time, and that's one of the things that is also something you do with your course as well.Where I think our business has done very well is laser focusing. We don't focus on membership sites. We don't focus on e-books. We don't focus on all these other things that you could be doing online. We're not focusing on speaking. We're not focusing on that. We stay in our lane of online courses and of teaching you how to create a premium online course, and how to promote the heck out of it. That's where I have my education programs, like Create Awesome Online Courses and Create Awesome Webinars, and that's also where I have my software. One's called Course Cats, and the other one's called Conversion Cats.By staying in the lane, I think has been the key to our business, and it's something that I would definitely encourage others as well. It's just laser focus down, and there's a lot of things you can do from there.Dave :David, I love that advice. Obviously, with ClickFunnels and everything else, our experience being online here for the last 10, 12 years, we've gone through that cycle of literally the launch and promote. Go launch and promote, launch and promote. For one, you get burned out. For two, your customers don't know who you really are. I love that advice, as far as just totally being laser focused and realize that it's a much deeper well than most these people think, and you've got such an opportunity. David, I've never thought of the idea, as far as basically going to a 12-month pay plan. That's pretty genius. That's pretty cool.David:(26:00) Yeah, it's fun. One of the things that I think people do in this industry, and in yours too, in software and things like that too, is they over-complicate. We don't do all that many things. We laser focus on what works and what we do, and that's it. We promote our course. We take great care of the students. We have evergreen funnels, and we have webinars, and that's basically where we focus. There's not a lot of other things that we necessarily do. Is there other things we could do? Yes, but we focus on what works, and we stay very much in our lane, and I think that's been one of the keys to success, for sure.Dave :That's awesome. Let's talk a little bit about the funnels and things that you're actually using. You've mentioned two different funnels. One is your evergreen funnel. The other is your webinar funnels.David:Yep.Dave :Tell me a little bit, as far as how does the funnel actually work? What's the difference between the two? How are you guys making money that way?David:Yeah. Let's just use Create Awesome Online Courses as our example here. Our funnels combined right now probably do, on average, about ... and these are just evergreen. I'm not talking about ... We do live promotions too. I'm saying these are just pure evergreen funnels. Just for that program, probably average about $25k per week, somewhere around there, right now. The way that we do those is there's two different funnels. One funnel, that we actually added in second, which I'll briefly talk about, is an auto-webinar funnel. It's very basic. We have a killer webinar called 7 Steps to Creating and Promoting and Profiting from Online Courses, and we just fill that up. We do Facebook ads. We do different things.I also do it live, time to time, as well, of course, with JV partners, but that webinar is running for us 24/7. That's one. It's a webinar, plus an automated replay, and then also you're getting a deadline as well. I think that's very important, Dave, to note it on this. This was the biggest shift that we saw at our business in the last three years, I'd say, two and a half, was we used to come up with these evergreen funnels and not have a deadline. It was like, "Hey, it's ending," but it didn't literally end. Do you know what I mean?Dave :Oh, yeah.David:(28:15) It was like, "Hey. This is the last time I'm going to tell you about this," but that was it. We use ... it's actually a piece of software called Deadline Funnel, which is really killer. What they allow you to do ... and there's other ones like it, but that's the one we use. It allows you to create, basically, a personal launch for everyone that's going through it, meaning that when you opt-in to when you end, it actually closes. The cart closes. The countdown timers are real, and the emails. There's no shenanigans or anything weird about that. Once it's gone, it's gone. If you go to the sales page, you will not get it. You will get a "Missed It" page. That's one of the very important things when doing evergreen funnels, and this is true of courses anyway, you have to have a deadline for people. You have to have a deadline.The other funnel that we have that's had great success is with the video series. We have a video series. It's about a 10-day funnel with a video series and then an open-cart period. There's a lot of emails in there, three-part series. Boom, boom, boom. Then they get a private launch as well. Those are our two main evergreen funnels.Here's something, Dave, that I want to share. I don't think I've ever shared this before, other than with my Mastermind group, is that where people sometimes miss the ball ... Let's say someone has an evergreen funnel that's great. You perfect it, and you perfect it, and you perfect it, and you perfect it. Eventually, you add in, let's say, another evergreen funnel. For sake of argument, just like this, you've got a video series, and you've got an auto-webinar. What people forget to do, and this is so funny, is sometimes people will buy on the second or third or fourth or fifth time around, meaning that if someone goes through a webinar with us, live or automated, a couple weeks later, if they haven't gotten the video series, we're going to start them on that path. Does that make sense?Dave :Very cool. Yeah, it definitely does.David:Yeah, and people forget that, because people are like, "Well, if someone saw something and didn't buy, they're never, ever going to buy ever. It's just not true. I can't tell you how many millions of dollars in sales now have come in just because. We then remarketed it in a different way, and then, "Hey. Here's a video series. Here's this or that," and they buy on the second time around. Then maybe I've got a live promotion coming up in a few months. They might buy on the third time around.(30:41) We are fascinated by this, when we see customers ... because you know you can track their path, and you can see someone that was like, "Hey. They were on a live webinar in September. Did not buy. They went through one of our special promotions in October. Didn't buy. They went through a video series in November and didn't buy. Then they saw something else in December, and they bought." A lot of people miss out on that opportunity. That's a big tip as well. I know that's more of an advanced thing, but I'm sure some people will probably resonate with that.Dave :No, that's a huge, huge tip. I can tell you it's been fun for us. A lot of the stuff we're doing with ClickFunnels is to have a whole bunch of different front ends. They all, eventually, are going to funnel into our Funnel Hacks webinar, but it's crazy where we'll have people who buy the DotComSecrets book and they don't sign up for ClickFunnels. Then, all of a sudden, they buy the Perfect Webinar Secrets and they don't sign up for ClickFunnels. Then they get Funnel Scripts and, all of a sudden, they get 2 or 3 front-end products. The end result is we want them in ClickFunnels, regardless, but it's cool to see where they come through.Again, you're right. I've seen that happen multiple times, especially on the webinar. They may have watched the webinar two or three times, and you're like-David:Yeah, right. Like some serial webinar watcher, but all of a sudden ... That's a great point because I love watching your guys' marketing, ClickFunnels, because it's brilliant, and I think it's the same lesson here, that you talked about earlier with courses, is this is where people miss the opportunity. I think it's so fun to be able to experiment with all these different things, front-end funnels, evergreen funnels, different opt-ins, different webinars, all going towards the same spot eventually. Do you know what I mean?Dave :Yeah. Oh, yeah.David:That makes your business a lot easier than the serial creator, if you will, that has 15 different products. Well, it's very hard to be constantly working on that and tweaking it and perfecting it because you're spread too thin. Everything you guys do leads into something, basically ClickFunnels, one way or another.Dave :(32:40) Right.David:Or maybe some of the other things you've got going on too, Funnel Hacks, different stuff, but it's all going basically to the same place. That's what I think is brilliant about the business, for sure, simple.Dave :That's awesome. Real quick, on your price point for your webinars ... I get this question all the time. Is the lowest price point I can sell a webinar, is it $9.97 for it? What kind of price points are you seeing on your auto-webinars?David:Mine, specifically? Mine, specifically, Create Awesome Online Courses is $9.97, and Create Awesome Webinars also, which is super meta, when you've got the auto-webinar with the webinar, is also $9.97. It is a webinar party there.Dave :I love that.David:Yeah, $9.97. I've seen customers of mine all the way up to a few thousand dollars on that.Dave :That's awesome.David:I've seen it across the alley. In my Mastermind group, which is called Create Awesomer Online Courses, which is for my top students that have launched their course, had success, and they're like, "Okay. Now what do I do? How do I stay focused? How do I make sure I'm focusing on the right things and not chasing shiny red balls and bring in the money?" A lot of what we do is just keeping people focused and saying, "Okay. Are your auto-webinars set up? Are we doing this? Are we doing this? Are we doing JV webinars? Are you doing that," and staying on those revenue-generating activities. Do you know what I'm saying? I've seen, in that group, because they all now have auto-webinar set up and doing well, price points are everywhere, from a few hundred dollars to a couple thousand. I think that's the sweet spot there, for sure.Dave :(34:28) I love that. I love your energy. It's always so much fun. I interview a lot of people, and I just love the energy you have. You're so passionate about what you do. As we were talking earlier, the part that is so fun is when you have students who've gotten results. The scalability, mentally, is so huge. I think it's amazing, so thank you for your energy.David:Yeah. Also, thank you for having me. This has been awesome. I love talking about this. That's what keeps you going. Do you know what I'm saying? That's what keeps you going, is getting these things. We have a customer named Rachel Boweman, and I always love when it's someone that comes out of left field. You don't even know what they're doing, whatever it might be. Rachel Boweman does aerial silks, aerial silks. What is aerial silks? I had to look this up. I don't know what it is. Think Cirque Du Soleil. She's basically up in the air, hanging onto silks, doing backflips and shimmies and pull-ups. You're thinking to yourself, "What is going on here?" Well, she's built a nice brand around this aerial silks. She's done launches. She's done over, now, $80,000 of her aerial silks course.When I got that, I remember, I was actually at a dinner. I was sitting down. I think we were at ... I actually still remember. We were at a place called Little Saigon. I'm here in St. Louis, Missouri. It's awesome. We're eating at Little Saigon, and I'm secretly checking my email like I shouldn't be. Do you know what I mean?Dave :Yeah.David:Like under the table for a second, and I saw this. I was like, "What?" I got so excited. I'm like a little kid in a candy shop, and I think that when you're getting that result from people, and when you get excited about your product and program, and you know it works, it's the ultimate validation. That's what keeps you going and makes this so fun, and makes you want to just keep growing it and having more fun with it.(36:18) My encouragement for folks as they get stuff launched, or relaunched, or if you already have and you've got something successful, keep a little happy file. Have a little file in your DropBox or somewhere that's all these great customer stories. Whenever you're dealing with any other bs or shenanigans or stuff that sucks, go back and look at that file, and it will change your world.Dave :I love that. Keep a little happy file.David:Keep a happy file.Dave :That's such a great way of looking at it. Oh, man. Well, David, I could talk to you all afternoon and evening here. You've got such awesome content, but I know you've got a busy schedule coming up here. If people want to get ahold of you and get more information from you, what's the best way of reaching out to you?David:Yeah. Best way, I'll send two links here, one is , . If you go there, that's my hub where you can see everything. You can see all our products, all our education stuff, all our funnels, all that kind of stuff. Go on there. That's a great place to start, and if you want to go directly, you can also go to , which should get you started with a free cheat sheet. You can come in and hack away, there, if you will.Dave :That is cool. Thank you so much. Well, bud, I loved having you on the call today. Thank you so much. Again, I look forward to talking to you real soon.David:All right. Thanks, Dave. It was a blast. Thanks for having me. ................
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