Index — Montana DNRC



Montana DNRC Oral History Project______________________________________________________________________________Interviewee: Colleen McGowan GustafsonInterviewer: Belinda KnaptonDate of Interview: October 23, 2014Location: Gustafson Ranch, Browning, MontanaIntroductionThis interview highlights the life of Collen McGowan Gustafson. The oral history provides fascinating details about Colleen’s life growing up near Highwood, Montana, and ranching out of Browning, Montana. Colleen’s experiences ranching and farming help provide a much clearer understanding of the important role women play in Montana’s agricultural and ranching history. Interview[00:00:00] Belinda Knapton: This is Belinda Knapton with Glacier County Conservation District. I'm sitting here with Colleen McGowan Gustafson. Can you tell me when you were born?[00:00:17] Collen Gustafson: January 4, 1966.[00:00:23] Belinda Knapton: And where you were born?[00:00:23] Collen Gustafson: Highwood, Montana.[00:00:31] Belinda Knapton: Can you tell me a little bit about the location of Highwood, and a little bit of background on Highwood? [00:00:41] Collen Gustafson: Yes, it's a small, rural, farming and ranching community in north-central Montana, 30 miles out of Great Falls. There were six students in my class. Some years there were four, and we graduated with six. It’s a very small community and a wonderful place to grow up. In the late 1800s it was actually named McGowan. Then there was a dispute over where the town was going to be settled and they moved it a mile away and changed the name. [00:01:19] Belinda Knapton: What is the population?[00:01:21] Collen Gustafson: I think it's around 200, about 30 students in the high school. [00:01:28] Belinda Knapton: What was it when you were growing up?[00:01:31] Collen Gustafson: Similar. [00:01:33] Belinda Knapton: Ranching industry? [00:01:35] Collen Gustafson: Farming. It's the heart of the Golden Triangle, a lot of farming and ranching, too. [00:01:46] Belinda Knapton: Tell me about your childhood. [00:01:49] Collen Gustafson: I have a brother and a sister. We grew up on the farm about a mile and a half away from my grandparents and some other cousins and my great aunt and uncle. We had a real close knit family operation. I always loved being with dad and doing farm and ranching things. We were active in sports. At that time we only had basketball and track and 4H. I always showed cattle and horses and sheep in 4H. My brother and sister and I were always very active in that and working on the ranch with dad.[00:02:35] Belinda Knapton: What about your ethnic background?[00:02:40] Collen Gustafson: My dad's family is predominantly Irish. My mother is Scottish and Arikara Indian. [00:02:49] Belinda Knapton: Tell me a little bit about your parents, originally where they came from and were born. [00:02:55] Collen Gustafson: My dad was from Highwood. His family settled on the farm. They homesteaded there in 1898. My mother was from Great Falls and they met at their first homecoming when they were students in Bozeman at Montana State. [00:03:16] Belinda Knapton: You said that the name of it used to be McGowan. When they homesteaded was it McGowan then?[00:03:27] Collen Gustafson: It was. As far as I know there was a little post office site on their homestead. I don't know if it was the original homestead, but on the ranch. We have some old calendars and a couple cards that say McGowan, Montana. When they officially made the town site it was a couple miles away and they changed the name to Highwood after the Highwood Mountains. [00:03:54] Belinda Knapton: Tell me a little bit more about your parents, your dad's family background. [00:04:01] Collen Gustafson: My grandma and grandpa were high school sweethearts. They were both from farm families in Highwood. They grew up in the Depression and were always very frugal and hardworking. My grandpa was a state senator for many years. He was incredibly active in the conservation districts and water rights. My grandma was a teacher before they had children and then a house wife for a large part of her life. She went back to school and became an LPN and worked as a nurse until she was quite old. My mother's father died when she was just a young child. Her mother worked for the railroad, Burlington Northern I believe, most of her life. They originally lived in Glacier Park, but moved to Great Falls when my mother was very young. [00:05:19] Belinda Knapton: Did they come from a big family too? [00:05:24] Collen Gustafson: My grandmother's family was big. They all went to the Fort Child Boarding School, I think. I guess it would have been her aunt, and my great grandma were there during the 1904 Fort Child Women's Indian Basketball Championship. [00:05:46] Belinda Knapton: Originally, how did they end up in Montana? You said they were predominantly Irish and Scottish. [00:06:00] Collen Gustafson: On my dad's side, on the McGowan side, they immigrated to the United States, originally to Minnesota. Then three brothers traveled out to Montana. They had a fight along the way, and the lineage that my father is from settled in Highwood. My grandmother, Lyla McGowan's family...I don't remember the history of how they settled in the Highwood Valley other than it’s fantastic farming country. They homesteaded there also. [00:06:44] Belinda Knapton: Where were they from originally? [00:06:46] Collen Gustafson: I think originally they came from Germany, [unclear] was their name. [00:06:55] Belinda Knapton: Did they come straight to Montana? [00:06:56] Collen Gustafson: No, actually they came from Kansas. I definitely know that. I have a [unclear] coffee table that came from Kansas on a wagon train that was my great grandmother's when she was a child. It was her family’s. My mom's family were Dawson's who were instrumental in settling Montana. Andrew Dawson was with the Montana Fur Company, wait, not Montana Fur Company, American Fur Company. [00:07:38] Belinda Knapton: Do you know about what time, what year?[00:07:40] Collen Gustafson: Oh, I should know, and I don't. [00:07:43] Belinda Knapton: That's okay. [00:07:45] Collen Gustafson: Dawson County was named for him. His sons, some of them married Indian women. My mother's family spent much of their time on the Blackfeet Reservation, but they were actually Arikara. That reservation is at Fort [unclear] at North Dakota. They travelled back and forth between North Dakota and the East Glacier area quite a bit during the Depression and later years. [00:08:21] Belinda Knapton: What about your siblings. You said you have one sister and one brother. [00:08:24] Collen Gustafson: I do, I have a brother who is on the farm with my mom and dad. [00:08:28] Belinda Knapton: And his name?[00:08:28] Collen Gustafson: Mike McGowan. [00:08:36] Belinda Knapton: And your sister?[00:08:36] Collen Gustafson: I have a sister who is retired from the military and she's lived all over the world, but has settled between East Helena and Townsend. [00:08:45] Belinda Knapton: And her name?[00:08:46] Collen Gustafson: Theresa Sroczyk.[00:09:01] Belinda Knapton: Is she into farming or ranching now that she's done?[00:09:05] Collen Gustafson: She’s not. She has one horse and works for the state.[00:09:09] Belinda Knapton: Your brother you say is farming with your folks?[00:09:16] Collen Gustafson: My brother and his wife farm with my folks. They live in the home that was my grandparent's home. They have two boys who are active on the farm. [00:09:28] Belinda Knapton: What was it like growing up?[00:09:32] Collen Gustafson: It was wonderful. [00:09:34] Belinda Knapton: Any stories that pop out about you or your brother or sister? [00:09:43] Collen Gustafson: We lived about a mile from my grandparents. Our 4H steers stayed at my grandparent's so we had to ride our bikes back and forth once or twice a day to feed our steers. I'd tell my kids that now because they only have to walk 150 yards out to the corral. [00:10:03] Belinda Knapton: What do they think about that? [00:10:04] Collen Gustafson: They think I'm making it up. [00:10:08] Belinda Knapton: Anything else that you might remember?[00:10:13] Collen Gustafson: One time I got stuck on a grain bin during harvest. Now it's much safer and the ladders on the bins are attached. At that time you just put a ladder up, and the wind blew it down. It was really funny because it was fairly close to a road. I was up there and the ladder had blown down and one of our neighbors drove by and I waved and waved and she honked and waved back and went on by. [00:10:39] Belinda Knapton: How old were you? [00:10:42] Collen Gustafson: I probably was either a little too young to have my driver's license or just had it, so 14 or 15 yrs. old. It was funny. It wasn't a big deal because the next truck was going to be coming. But, they were upset with me at the field because the combines had to wait. [00:11:03] Belinda Knapton: How long were you stuck up there? [00:11:07] Collen Gustafson: An hour or less, but it was hot. [00:11:11] Belinda Knapton: Did it kind of scare you a little? [00:11:12] Collen Gustafson: No it didn't scare me. We teased our neighbor for the rest of her life because she didn't figure out I was stuck up there. [00:11:22] Belinda Knapton: Was there anything that happened in your early years that impacted your life? [00:11:30] Collen Gustafson: I think growing up on a farm and ranch impacted my life and it still does every day. I always felt a really special bond to the land and the history and working with livestock. We were primarily a farm, but I was, and still am, a horrible, or wonderful horse nut. I always loved the cows. I remember my dad used to let me help pull the calves. I wasn't any help, I was just in the way. But, he was kind of a gruff, stern, grumpy man on the exterior, but he was always so kind about letting me help and get in the way with the cattle. [00:12:10] Belinda Knapton: When did that start? How old were you when you started? [00:12:14] Collen Gustafson: I didn't go to kindergarten. I refused to go to kindergarten because I was busy helping dad, so probably then. [00:12:24] Belinda Knapton: What did you imagine life would be like when you became an adult?[00:12:28] Collen Gustafson: I always imagined I'd be on my family's place in Highwood. I never dreamt I'd be anywhere else. I went to school in Bozeman and have a degree in agricultural business. I always wanted to go back, which I'm sure was stressful for my parents. My brother and I both wanted to go back. Like a lot of family operations there's really only room for one. It worked out wonderfully, I met my husband and we're on his ranch. So, although I'm not farming in Highwood, I'm ranching out of Browning. [00:13:06] Belinda Knapton: Where did you go to grade school?[00:13:13] Collen Gustafson: In Highwood[00:13:13] Belinda Knapton: What was the name of the school?[00:13:15] Collen Gustafson: Highwood School. It's a K-12 school all in one building. [00:13:23] Belinda Knapton: Give me a description. I know you said there were only six kids that you graduated with. What were classes like? Sports like?[00:13:35] Collen Gustafson: It was very homey. We had two classes per grade. There was no kindergarten at that time. You could do home school kindergarten. Apparently I had a temper tantrum, and that’s what I didn't do it. First and second grade were in the same classroom with one teacher. I was so lucky I always got to be in the same classroom as my sister although she was a year older. Third and fourth grade we were in the same room and fifth and sixth. When we got to junior high they alternated and I don't exactly remember, in high school, too. One year biology was offered and the next year chemistry offered. Freshmen and sophomore we would be together. I often wonder why they don't do more of that now at the school with the school consolidations. [00:14:26] Belinda Knapton: Do you feel like your education was enough to prepare you for college in a smaller school like that?[00:14:35] Collen Gustafson: It was. Highwood at that time was, and as far as I know still is...their statistics and college placement, SAT scores, were very, very high. It's always been known as an exceptional school. Sports were fun. We were in class C so many of our sports friends were also our 4H friends, so we knew them pretty well. Highwood was one of the smaller schools at the time. Back at that time we played Geraldine, Power, Stanford, Augusta, Brady and Dutton and Geyser. One thing that some of our other friends thought was funny is we were small enough that if you played sports you still had to play in the band. At basketball we'd warm up and then we'd go jump up on the stage and play the Star Spangled Banner and then we'd jump back down and do the starting lineup. Our coach was always worried that someone was going to sprain their ankle jumping on and off the stage. [00:15:38] Belinda Knapton: Did they? [00:15:38] Collen Gustafson: Not that I remember. [00:15:45] Belinda Knapton: When you went to college did you struggle for a larger school? Where did you go to college? [00:15:55] Collen Gustafson: I went to college in Bozeman, at Montana State. There really was no struggle. One of my best friends, Jennie Swan Sullivan and my sister were both at Bozeman. I would say the majority of the students coming out of Highwood always expected to go to college. It was just a real strong, farm family stable, middle class families. Most of us went to college. It really wasn't a struggle. I went home a lot. I always took lots of friends home with me and they loved it. We had a very fun little bar and the drinking age was only 19 then so everyone wanted to go to Highwood on the weekends. I do have one funny thing about college. My friends used to tease me that I never wanted to go to a typical spring break. Other people would go to Ft. Lauderdale, or wherever you go for spring break. I always couldn't wait to go home and help dad seed.[00:17:07] Belinda Knapton: Did your friends follow you there? [00:17:07] Collen Gustafson: No, during spring break they usually didn't go to Highwood. [00:17:13] Belinda Knapton: What activities were you involved in? You said sports and band. Was there anything else? The smaller schools, I know, you kind of get into everything. [00:17:25] Collen Gustafson: Yeah, you really do. Cheerleading, I hated cheerleading. None of us would go out for cheerleading because we were cowgirls and jocks. Our superintendent sat us down and said, "Now you girls have to be cheerleaders." So, we did. We did student council and we were really active in 4H. We always went to 4H congress at the state level and national level. We did a Washington D.C. trip in 4H.[00:17:57] Belinda Knapton: What was that experience like?[00:17:59] Collen Gustafson: It was great. Some of those friends I still keep in touch with and reconnected during college. [00:18:06] Belinda Knapton: What kind of things did you do at these activities with 4H?[00:18:12] Collen Gustafson: Our county fair was the Choteau County fair in Fort Benton. I usually had a beef breeding project and a market steer and a horse and it was always during harvest, so it was a busy time. One year I remember I had a market lamb and a breeding lamb and a breeding heifer and a market steer and a horse, and we laughed that we almost needed a semi to get to the fair. My brother and sister each had steers, too. Although they didn't usually do as many. [00:18:45] Belinda Knapton: So it kept you pretty busy? When you went to state levels and national levels, was it the same? [00:18:54] Collen Gustafson: It was the same. I also competed in cooking. I won a nice trip with the wheat demonstration. I didn't grind the flour myself, but a little bit of the history of growing wheat and a bread baking demonstration. My mom kind of made me do that. I preferred the animals. [00:19:21] Belinda Knapton: Did your parents go with you when you travelled for 4H? [00:19:27] Collen Gustafson: They didn't. My parent's did chaperon a 4H trip to Chicago one year, but it was after I was in college. Maybe my brother was on that trip. My mother was very active in 4H. She was a local leader. I don't remember the right terminology, but she was active in the state 4H council and really did a wonderful job. [00:19:49] Belinda Knapton: Where did you travel to for your national competition things that you did? [00:19:57] Collen Gustafson: Chicago. National 4H congress used to be held in Chicago. We went on the Washington D.C. citizenship trip. [00:20:07] Belinda Knapton: Was that a large group that went? [00:20:09] Collen Gustafson: It was. Now I think they fly, but at the time, I forget however many, but it was a big Greyhound bus that started in Kalispell and picked up all the Montana kids along the way, and the bus was full. We took the bus to D.C. We were there probably a week and then back. [00:20:32] Belinda Knapton: When you were there did you get to explore some of the history of Washington D.C.?[00:20:40] Collen Gustafson: Yes, there were tours every day of the historic districts and the Capitol and the Smithsonian and all the memorials. Usually at night there were citizenship/communication type workshops and dances. And there were always fireflies. [00:21:03] Belinda Knapton: So after you graduated from high school you went to Bozeman. Did you go for just four years or extended? [00:21:13] Collen Gustafson: I did go for four years. I have a major in agricultural business and a minor in economics. My sister went for five. She always teased me that she convinced mom and dad that nobody graduated in four years until I did. I blew her cover. After graduation I worked for the farm credit system as a loan officer. I had worked on a committee in the college of agriculture bringing in recruiters and so it was great. I picked up the personnel director for Farm Credit from the airport and gave her a ride back to the meetings they were having and I think that certainly helped me get my first job, because she hired me. I spent a year in Nampa, Idaho, with that, and then I really always wanted to come back to Montana and get closer to my family's farm and ranch. There was an opening in Conrad, Montana, and I transferred there and worked for almost five years. [00:22:27] Belinda Knapton: Somewhere along the line you must have met your husband? [00:22:29] Collen Gustafson: I did. I was my in-law’s banker. I was on a golf team and I was a horrible golfer, but one night my team was playing my mother-in-law's team and my mother-in-law asked one of my teammates "who is that girl over there?" Ultimately she set us up on a cattle drive. [00:22:56] Belinda Knapton: Tell me about your early life as a young couple. [00:22:59] Collen Gustafson: Barr and I were on the ranch south of Browning and his dad was there a lot of the time, and his mother. His father is Rib Gustafson and his mother is Pat. He'd go back and forth to Conrad, but largely on a daily basis helping us run the ranch. He and my husband are both veterinarians and they did their vet work out at the ranch. We were married six years before we had children. I worked as the agricultural officer at Blackfeet National Bank at that time. I was lucky I worked part time in the fall when we were busy with the cattle work, and during calving I worked three days a week. So, we were together on the ranch. My mother-in-law cooked and cleaned. [00:23:46] Belinda Knapton: What's your husband's full name?[00:23:46] Collen Gustafson: His name is Barr Robert Gustafson.[00:24:00] Belinda Knapton: Where was he born?[00:24:00] Collen Gustafson: He was born in Conrad.[00:24:02] Belinda Knapton: What year? [00:24:05] Collen Gustafson: 1960.[00:24:09] Belinda Knapton: Back to the early life as a couple. You were together on the ranch besides working part time. Tell me a little bit about juggling it? How was that?[00:24:27] Collen Gustafson: It was good. It was a juggle. Sometimes it was hard. Everybody knew what was going on with the ranch work except me. I'd come in and bumble around sometimes, but it was good. We needed the outside income so there was no sense dwelling on it. [00:24:51] Belinda Knapton: When you two started out was he established when you met him? Or, did you start everything together? [00:25:01] Collen Gustafson: His dad, Rib Gustafson, bought the ranch in 1971. Barr was working for his parents. The ranch was, I wouldn’t say it was struggling, but money was pretty tight. He worked for his parents and we actually bought it from them in 1998. [00:25:28] Belinda Knapton: What is it that you do? I know that you run cattle, correct? Do you do any outside farming? [00:25:34] Collen Gustafson: We don't have any grain. We put up a lot of hay. Depending on the year 600 to 1,000 ton of hay. Some of it’s irrigated and some of it’s not. We have about 350 cows and the vet practice. [00:25:51] Belinda Knapton: Do you have other people working for you? [00:25:54] Collen Gustafson: Just the two of us, and the kids are 14 and 16 now. They are great help. [00:26:03] Belinda Knapton: How was that juggling when they were little?[00:26:06] Collen Gustafson: When they were little it all worked out fine. We left them alone a lot, which terrified my mother. We had a couple funny stories. One time a vet client called and Greta answered the phone and it was Lorraine Romney that called and she said, "Greta can I talk to your dad?" and Greta said, "No, he's on a vet call." And she said, "can I talk to your mother?" and Greta said, "No she's out riding, and I'm really very busy, I can't talk to you either."[00:26:44] Belinda Knapton: How old was she?[00:26:44] Collen Gustafson: She was probably four. We used to have codes. If we were moving cattle or had to leave early in the morning we'd leave breakfast for them in front of the T.V. with cartoons. That was the code for everything is okay and grandpa Rib will here pretty soon. They were funny. They weren't supposed to use the stove or knives and so they ate mayonnaise sandwiches a lot, which is disgusting. They thought it was a lot easier to spread mayonnaise than peanut butter. [00:27:24] Belinda Knapton: Tell me some of your fond memories. I know we've been kind of sharing some of those, but do you have any others you want to add as the kids were growing up, in your younger years? Anything that really pops out?[00:27:38] Collen Gustafson: We were fortunate that I worked in Browning until Owen was six months old and Greta was two. We got one of the big mortgages paid off and our babysitter was going to stop babysitting and go back to college, all this kind of fell together in the same month. I quit my job and did some contract work for FHA and the Browning Bank, but mainly got to stay home. We were just with the kids all the time. A lot of it was in the back seat strapped into their car seats in the pickup, but we were with them. Barr took them on vet calls a lot. They both started to ride horses at a very young age. We worried at first that it was too young, and we'd soured them, but we didn't. They are both tremendous horse people now and love their horses. [00:28:35] Belinda Knapton: Any special time comes to mind while they were learning to ride? Watching them? [00:28:46] Collen Gustafson: Greta was always more aggressive, and being older she got more one on one attention. She was always riding. Owen was funny. He had a little pony named Wooly. He had bad luck. Wooly was really nice, but Owen was a little timid. One time he got on and a dog heeled him and Wooly jumped and he fell off. For about the next year he just warmed him up. Greta would ride and he'd lead Wooly all over. We'd say "do you want to get on?" and he'd say, "Nope, I'm just warming him up."[00:29:14] Belinda Knapton: So what did you do differently raising your kids on your ranch as opposed to when you were growing up? [00:29:39] Collen Gustafson: Yeah there was. When I was growing up I was lucky because dad pretty much let us do all the farm work we wanted. But I think there was more women's work and men's work then. Sometimes it was a struggle for me to get to drive the trucks and the combine. He never minded letting me change [unclear] shovels, though, I remember that. When I grew up we didn’t' t live on the farm, we lived a mile away. It wasn't very far, but our kids have been so involved since day one. Our barn is just a couple hundred yards from the back door. When they were little they loved to check the heifers at night. We've given them a lot of responsibility. They've been really active in the ranch since they were young, much more so than their peers in school. I think more than my siblings and I. My mother taught. She was a teacher most of her life. She wasn't necessarily a farm girl. She was wonderful about helping us with our 4H steers. Her job was to hold their tale when we washed them. I don't remember why she had to do that, but that we thought it was funny. She didn't ride horses and wasn't as active as I was. That's been the main change. The kids were always with us because Barr and I were both running the production. And they both want to come back to the ranch. [00:31:23] Belinda Knapton: Were there any significant events that impacted your life during this period?[00:31:27] Collen Gustafson: There was the typical family estate planning. It wasn't necessarily smooth going through it, but ultimately we did buy the ranch from Barr's mom and dad. It was kind of rocky with a couple siblings for a few years, but it's all good now. I'm passionate about all families, but primarily business owners, especially farm and ranchers. You have to talk about the estate plan. The elder generation has to be transparent and open with the finances and what the on farm and off farm kids know what's going on, what the plans are. I'm really grateful to my in-laws that they were that way. That was major. Making the decision that we'd stay for the rest of our lives. Before the decision was made it was major. Much of our outside income was going into the ranch and it was traumatic to be there. We had housing and gas and groceries, but no salary. All our retirement income was going into the ranch. That was a stressful time wondering what was going to happen. We went through a series of family meetings over almost two years and then ultimately we bought the ranch. We also have it set up to where there is a small acreage for my husband's siblings, that they have some shares in so the always fell like they have a place to come home to. [00:33:18] Belinda Knapton: Tell me about your lives now, today.[00:33:22] Collen Gustafson: We spend a lot of time following the kids. Our daughter is playing volleyball. Last year our son played football, but he didn't this year. They are both active in rodeo. Our son is a freshman, so this is his first year as a team roper. Greta barrel races, and pole bends, and cuts, and she actually was the state champion in cutting and competed at the national high school finals rodeo. [00:33:50] Belinda Knapton: And your son's full name?[00:33:52] Collen Gustafson: Owen McGowan Gustafson. [00:34:07] Belinda Knapton: An he was born? [00:34:07] Collen Gustafson: 12/29/1999[00:34:13] Belinda Knapton: And then your daughter?[00:34:14] Collen Gustafson: Greta Kay Gustafson[00:34:36] Belinda Knapton: Do you want it known as that? Or do you want the McGowan in there too? [00:34:40] Collen Gustafson: I think that's fine. [00:34:41] Belinda Knapton: When was she born?[00:34:44] Collen Gustafson: 3/3/1998, in the heart of calving in a blizzard. That's a funny story. We got home from the hospital; I think we stayed in the hospital just one day. We had a hired man at that time. He was a wonderful man, but he was an alcoholic and so since we were gone having Greta, he was gone on a drunk. There was this terrible blizzard, and it was stressful, and we hadn't slept. Barr was on a vet call so I went out to check the heifers and I took Greta. I think I drove from the house to the barn, and left her in the warm pickup so she was safe. I went to check the heifers and walked back to the house and had that funny feeling like I'm forgetting something. Then it dawned on my it was Greta. I went and got her. [00:35:40] Belinda Knapton: Where were they both born?[00:35:43] Collen Gustafson: They were born in Cut Bank.[00:35:46] Belinda Knapton: At the Northern Rockies? [00:35:50] Collen Gustafson: Yes, at that time the name was Glacier... I don't remember, Northern Rockies. [00:35:58] Belinda Knapton: Who was the doctor? [00:36:01] Collen Gustafson: With Greta it was Linda Hansen, only she was gone and Dr. Webb delivered her. With Owen it was Linda. [00:36:27] Belinda Knapton: That's when they were delivering babies up there? [00:36:31] Collen Gustafson: Which was fantastic. I can't imagine having been working in Browning and having to go to Great Falls. We had complicated pregnancies. I did go to Great Falls fairly regularly, but what a blessing to be delivering babies here again, and not looking at traveling. [00:36:53] Belinda Knapton: Any other stories about parenting? About your kids? [00:37:04] Collen Gustafson: Greta was funny one time. Talking about estate planning. It was before school, she was pretty young. I want to say she was probably 4 or 5. We were outside doing something and she kind of waved her arm around the expansive horizon and said, "Mom, someday when I'm grown up and you and dad are dead, and all this is mine, we have to move Frederick's house." Frederick had been an exchange worker who had stayed in our bunkhouse. I said, "Why?" and she said, "Well, we're going to have to move the barn over here because I want my arena where the barn is so we're just going to have to move Frederick's house." I'm involved in some estate planning work, I haven't been recently, but people would ask me when you should start talking about it. I always told them that story. As soon as your kids can talk, you need to start talking about it. Owen was kind of accident prone. We have horrible wind in Browning and Cut Bank area. One time he got blown over and rolled across the corral. He didn't get hurt, but he had a little road rash in a few places. They always had lots of pets, cats, and dogs. If we had bum calves, they'd raise the bum calves. [00:38:37] Belinda Knapton: How did they do that? [00:38:39] Collen Gustafson: Bottle fed them. I always took the night shifts for them in the barn. [00:38:48] Belinda Knapton: Generally did you have only one at that time? [00:38:52] Collen Gustafson: It would vary. Some years there are none. One year we had a rash of twins and they had three that they were feeding. The kids were a good age then, they weren't in school yet. Maybe Greta was in kindergarten. That was a good age for them to have bum calves. [00:39:11] Belinda Knapton: And so what did they do? How did they take care of them besides bottle feeding them? [00:39:16] Collen Gustafson: That's really all they had to do. They had to pay attention to time. They needed to learn to tell time and pay attention to time going by, and mix up their bottles. [00:39:28] Belinda Knapton: And how often did they have to feed them? [00:39:30] Collen Gustafson: When the calves are real young every two or three hours. When they got a little older just twice a day. [00:39:35] Belinda Knapton: How much did they feed them? [00:39:39] Collen Gustafson: Again it varies. They'd take a half a bottle when they were real young up to two bottles and then we'd turn them into what my father-in-law calls bucket punchers. Teach them to drink out of a bucket instead of a bottle. Then they just had to mix the milk. [00:39:55] Belinda Knapton: And how big where the bottles? [00:39:57] Collen Gustafson: A quart. We also had a milk cow when we were first married. [00:40:06] Belinda Knapton: Did you do the milking? [00:40:08] Collen Gustafson: Both, Barr usually did the morning milking and I did the evening milking, which after work it was very relaxing. We had a very nice milk cow. We were kind of backwards. We had a milk cow and only wood heat and a very finicky septic system. We were sort of backwards, I guess, but it was all good. We finally, a couple years ago, got a new septic system. We hardly ever use the outhouse. We drank the milk and fed it to the cats and dogs and we'd usually get a pig to feed the extra milk to. The real purpose we had the milk cow is if we had a twin or a cow that died then she would raise an extra calf or two. It was nice. Usually when she'd first calved we had to be there to milk her twice a day, but once we got another calf to put on her it would be at our leisure. We'd take the calves off overnight when we needed milk. [00:41:06] Belinda Knapton: And she was okay with that?[00:41:10] Collen Gustafson: She was. Her name was Matilda and she was very nice. After she was finally dry, because she was so old, dry being not pregnant, we had two other milk cows after her, but none of them were as nice. We decided not being so tied down would be okay, so we used store milk? [00:41:30] Belinda Knapton: And that works just fine? [00:41:30] Collen Gustafson: It does. [00:41:34] Belinda Knapton: They don't have to have a special formula?[00:41:37] Collen Gustafson: There is a powdered calf milk that you buy at BTI feeds right here in Cut Bank. [00:41:47] Belinda Knapton: Is there a such thing as a typical day in your life? [00:41:51] Collen Gustafson: You know there really isn't. Growing up more on a farm it was more typical. You could plan more, and mom had dinner at a certain time, and you were supposed to be there. With us, between the ranch and the veterinarian business there really isn’t a typical day. It varies. [00:42:14] Belinda Knapton: What do you enjoy most about your lifestyle? [00:42:20] Collen Gustafson: I like being in a small rural community. Having the kids know what we do on a daily basis, and doing it with us. The connection to the land. This fall we've had a string of incredibly beautiful days. Every day, whether it's beautiful or not, I get to look at the Rocky Mountains, the cattle and the horses. We have such a connection to life through the animals. We see them born and we see them die. [00:42:54] Belinda Knapton: What do your kids think about that? [00:42:58] Collen Gustafson: They've been exposed to it for so long it's pretty natural to them. I talked about having pigs. One of the pigs that we butchered was quite a pet. I remember Owen, they wanted to watch Barr shoot it, so they could butcher it. I thought they shouldn't. They watched and it was fine and Owen said, "I guess Pennys not our favorite pet anymore." Which seems a little harsh, but they understand life and death. I think when it comes time for humans to die, it's been a huge benefit to ranch kids, or any kids with pets to have experienced that.[00:43:44] Belinda Knapton: What are some of your favorite activities? [00:43:47] Collen Gustafson: They mostly center around horses. We really have never taken a vacation. We haven't left the ranch more than three days since our honeymoon in 1992. We're looking forward to when the kids are old enough to hold things down and maybe we will leave for more than three days, but maybe not. [00:44:09] Belinda Knapton: Where did you go on your honeymoon? [00:44:11] Collen Gustafson: We went on a ski trip to Canada, except there was no snow. So we drove around Canada. [00:44:21] Belinda Knapton: And that's been your vacationing. [00:44:23] Collen Gustafson: I shouldn't say we haven't left for more than three days, we just haven’t' left together. Barr has a veterinarian meeting he has to go to for continuing education requirements every year, so often we'll go to that. We take a family pack trip most summers. There were quite a few years I didn't get to go. We'd go early in the year and I'd stay home and irrigate. Owen was too young to go, so he and I stayed home. There were a few years when just the kids went, but now I get to go. [00:44:58] Belinda Knapton: Where do you go? [00:44:59] Collen Gustafson: We usually go into the Bob Marshal behind Swift Dam. We've gone in several different places. [00:45:07] Belinda Knapton: And you'd go for two, three days, at a time? [00:45:07] Collen Gustafson: Yep, one or two nights. Barr's brothers go with us if they can. Barr's father Rib went with us up until he was 85 years old. He doesn't get to go now because his health isn't that good. Some cousins have gone. That's a wonderful thing we always look forward to. [00:45:36] Belinda Knapton: Are your kids okay being out in the woods? [00:45:37] Collen Gustafson: They love it. They are getting good at knowing how to pack the pack horses and take care of things. Barr and Owen have gone on some hunting trips in the fall. And right now they are really into rodeo. We do that a lot in the summer. [00:45:59] Belinda Knapton: What is it that they do again? [00:45:59] Collen Gustafson: Owen team ropes and Greta does barrel racing, pole bending, and cutting. [00:46:05] Belinda Knapton: And which is her favorite? [00:46:05] Collen Gustafson: Cutting, well I'm not sure. She loves barrel racing too, but her most successful is cutting. Her uncle, Wiley Gustafson is coaching that. [00:46:17] Belinda Knapton: And how long has she been rodeo-ing? [00:46:22] Collen Gustafson: Oh boy, we had a little Jr. rodeo association club and we held our rodeos at our neighbor's gym at Mable Running Fisher’s since before they were in school. It was really a neat family oriented, low key littlest kids, if they had to be led on their little horses or ponies that was fine. It was a great way to start. [00:46:45] Belinda Knapton: Are they still doing it? [00:46:45] Collen Gustafson: There are still JRA rodeos and there is one at the stampede park in Browning, locally, but we don't do it at Running Fisher's anymore. The group of us that did it, our kids all got too old to be in that association. [00:47:05] Belinda Knapton: Is that the highlight of you kids' lives right now? [00:47:05] Collen Gustafson: No, I would say the ranch and their family life is the highlight of their life. Rodeo is definitely their favorite sport. [00:47:19] Belinda Knapton: From the beginning until now, what changes have you seen? [00:47:29] Collen Gustafson: The beginning being?[00:47:30] Belinda Knapton: From the beginning. [00:47:31] Collen Gustafson: Technology. We've gone from cab-less swathers to this year we have a new $100,000 swather with a radio and a cab and an air conditioner. I would say we're behind many in agriculture in getting nice equipment. I think Barr was insane so many years in putting up as much hay as we do with a swather with no air conditioning. But, we also don't like to go very deep in debt, and equipment is so incredibly expensive. We've gone from a tractor without four wheel drive to a nice four wheel drive tractor and a nice swather. We were one of the last hold outs to do everything horseback and not have four wheelers. Now we have a four wheeler. We still do most of our cow work horseback, but four wheelers are fabulous for fencing and checking gates. [00:48:33] Belinda Knapton: You guys do all of that yourselves. [00:48:34] Collen Gustafson: Yes. [00:48:38] Belinda Knapton: A significant event or challenge? [00:48:42] Collen Gustafson: Every day. Every day is a new challenge. [00:48:52] Belinda Knapton: You seem so connected to the land. How would you explain that to someone who doesn't live this way? [00:48:59] Collen Gustafson: That's a hard question. [00:49:08] Belinda Knapton: I can let you think about it and we can come back to it if you like. [00:49:11] Collen Gustafson: I think a lot of the connection has to do with the beauty. City lights can be beautiful too, but they are man-made. I think a lot of the connection to the land has to do with nature and your spirituality and really life and death, whether it's grass or alfalfa or losing a calf that you've spent the whole night trying to save, it's more of a connection to nature. It's very strong. I don't know how to explain it. I guess that's why people from the city vacation in Glacier Park so they can get a glimpse of that. Sometimes it's hard to appreciate that. Sometimes the nature is dying calves and drought you can do nothing about. It's certainly not all glamorous, but the rewards are good. [00:50:20] Belinda Knapton: Are there any areas on your ranch that are special? [00:50:23] Collen Gustafson: There are. I have some favorite views of the mountains. We live right on the Two Medicine River. When it floods you can fish from our living room. We always have a beautiful view through the cottonwoods of the mountains. There are two very special places, we lost a child, our first child died and her ashes are scattered on the ranch. My mother-in-law passed away two years ago and her ashes and her headstone are on the ranch. I think all the rest of us, as we go, will probably be placed there too. [00:51:05] Belinda Knapton: Tell me your views about conservation and ranching. [00:51:08] Collen Gustafson: They go hand in hand. I think they're nearly synonymous. Unfortunately in the area that we live there is a real lack of conservation. We live in the middle of the Blackfeet Reservation and there is a big problem with horses. They really aren't feral, but they are wild and everywhere. There is very little fencing and gates get thrown open all the time. That's probably the biggest challenge to our ranch is the trespassing. So, it's very, very sad. [00:51:44] Belinda Knapton: How does that affect your ranch? [00:51:45] Collen Gustafson: It's one of the reasons we've never been gone for three days. We simply can't leave. There is a lack of respect for property. The horse herd, I know it's tied partly to the slaughter ban, and partly just to personal responsibility like spaying cats and dogs, there are just thousands and thousands of horses. It doesn't effect our land too much because we work so hard chasing them out. You can look around and see horribly overgrazed pastures. It's generally not cattle; it's generally horses doing the damage. There is a real knapweed problem. Not very many of the land managers in our area try to do any control. We work incredibly hard trying to control it and it's either a losing battle or a lost battle. We spray extensively. There are some new sprays, Milestone is a great spray for knapweed that is environmentally very safe, and we've purchased a lot of insects. Knapweed is not native to the U.S., it comes from Asia. The government agencies spent years and years researching biological controls through insects, making sure they are safe and not going to affect a beneficial crop. Our ranch has been on the forefront there. We've spent thousands and thousands of dollars buying these little bugs at a dollar a bug, with some cost share help from government programs through the Farm Service Agency and NRCS. [00:53:52] Belinda Knapton: Did they work for you? [00:53:52] Collen Gustafson: You know, they are making a difference. But where you can put out thousands, economically we need to be putting out hundreds of thousands for the amount of knapweed that's out there. But I think they are really the only hope. Between deeded and lease land we control about 12,000 acres. It's a lot! You can't physically get to every acre you need to and spray. Nor should you. [00:54:29] Belinda Knapton: What is your suggestion about the horse situation?[00:54:29] Collen Gustafson: I best not say. I don't know. [00:54:38] Belinda Knapton: Speaking from a conservation standpoint. The overgrazing obviously is an issue, right? You as a rancher, what would you suggest that could be a solution? [00:55:02] Collen Gustafson: The solutions are so simple. Castrate the studs. The [unclear] market, my understanding is, it’s up. There were a number of years when horse slaughter was banned. If you could even get the horses sold, it cost more to haul them than it did. I don't know what the market is now, but it's my understanding that it's up. I don't know. I can't comprehend that people would have all these horses that they’re doing nothing with. [00:55:40] Belinda Knapton: What about the lifestyle for the horses? [00:55:44] Collen Gustafson: A lot of them live on the road. There have been some bad traffic accidents. There was lots of rain this year so they are fat and happy. The old ones often...we see lots of carcasses or dead and dying. [00:56:00] Belinda Knapton: Wolves? [00:56:00] Collen Gustafson: No, coyotes, they just get down and can't get up and starve to death because of old age. It's a bad deal. From a conservation standpoint some of the pastures...I don't know how many years it would take for the grass species to come back, or if they ever will. [00:56:28] Belinda Knapton: What practices does your ranch do for conservation? [00:56:38] Collen Gustafson: We have an extensive weed control program. We have found one, very small two or three plant patch of leafy spurge, so we have that staked and keep and eye on it and keep that sprayed. In our upland, away from the water areas we use a Milestone [unclear] mix for knapweed control. In the flood zone we use Milestone and biological controls. We also have a grazing plan. It works pretty well. We developed a grazing plan through the Montana Stock Grower's Undaunted Stewardship Program, probably ten or more years ago. We have photo plots where we do range monitoring. Some of our pastures only have one water source so we really can't rotate them. Most of our summer pastures when we’re out there for three or four months, we have a rotation system where water allows and we're never on any pastures for twelve months. We have fall pasture, winter pasture, spring pasture, and summer pasture. It takes more work, and it takes more fencing, but it's well worth the expense and the time because of the quality of the grass and the range is so much better. And in the drought years we're able to sustain pretty close to a regular cattle herd. We have 350 mother cows. [00:58:21] Belinda Knapton: That's what you run every year after calves and stuff?[00:58:26] Collen Gustafson: We generally have a 300 cow mature herd and 50 first calf heifers coming in. It varies between 300 and 350 depending on the rain. [00:58:40] Belinda Knapton: Is retirement in you future? [00:58:42] Collen Gustafson: We were kind of old when we had our kids, so it's a ways away. I don't know, we might have to retire when we die. I think we'll enjoy slowing down some day. We actually did buy a little place in [unclear] which was 25 or 30 miles from the ranch. Some of it's in CRP and some of it's very wonderful pasture, but the impetus for buying it was someday if both our kids come back to the ranch, both or one of them, it would be a nice place to move. We'd be close enough to help them, but we couldn't look in their bathroom window every day. [00:59:28] Belinda Knapton: That leads into the next questions, will your children continue with the ranch. [00:59:36] Collen Gustafson: Currently their plans are to continue with the ranch. Greta is a junior in high school and she’s 16. She's always planned to be a veterinarian and now she's unsure between being a medical doctor and veterinarian. As she works through that and gets it figured out, that's her plans for now. She wants to practice, whether it's on animals or people, and live on the ranch. Owen wants to go do something, mainly rodeo. We keep telling him he has to have a paying job to rodeo, for a few years after college and come back to the ranch. They both plan to come back and live there. It's funny, all the advice I've given people in the past about estate planning, it's much clearer when it's not your own children. If those are the paths their lives take we'll have to figure out how Greta having income, how to divvy things up equitably. [01:00:45] Belinda Knapton: She'll have to figure out how to balance. [01:00:49] Collen Gustafson: She'll be busy. She is busy. She's pretty hard core type A individual.[01:00:57] Belinda Knapton: What legacy do you hope to leave? [01:01:00] Collen Gustafson: I think it's already greatly instilled in them, that animals come first. You always take care of the animals to the best of your ability. Hard work is really the key to a successful life and respect for the land and trying to keep the land viable and healthy and in agriculture. [01:01:34] Belinda Knapton: What are some ideas how ranchers and non ranchers can better understand each other?[01:01:42] Collen Gustafson: There have been some really great projects, documentaries put together, Montana Stock Growers Association has done a wonderful coffee table book, projects like this, tell our story, the agricultural side of the story. How we involve non-agriculturalists and catch their interests, I'm not sure. It all goes back to we all eat. Whether you are a carnivore or an omnivore, we all eat. Whether you are organic, or non-organic the food has to come from the land. I don't know how we bridge that gap. I think social media and projects like this we're getting there. I our little tiny corner of the world we have a friend from France who his family has a ranch in France. We met years ago under funny circumstances through a friend of a friend, type thing. Through him, five young 20-ish French people have stayed with us at various times. Three of them are in agriculture and two of them are not. Things like that. Sharing our lifestyle when we can. [01:03:22] Belinda Knapton: Over the years what kind of changes have you seen in raising your cattle with everything kind of shifting to the organic. [01:03:39] Collen Gustafson: We really haven't seen a lot of change. My husband who is a veterinarian has never been a proponent of a lot of vaccinating, treating. We feel the key to healthy cattle is giving them enough space, and the number one factor is nutrition. Everything is cyclical. I think a lot of the industry being more aware of beef quality assurance standards is key. The government, and the... I don't know if I'd call them environmentalists, misled conservationist's push to re-establish buffalo I think is huge. Where we live there is a free roaming buffalo herd already. The tribe has a herd but they migrate through us, and they tare down a lot of fences. When the buffalo go through it looks like there was a huge train going through your fences. [01:04:42] Belinda Knapton: And how does that affect your cattle? [01:04:47] Collen Gustafson: It doesn't affect the cattle, but it makes a lot of work for us. Usually our cattle don't get out very often. [01:04:55] Belinda Knapton: I meant with the grazing. Kind of take away from? [01:05:02] Collen Gustafson: They're not on us long enough for that to be a problem. But the damage to the fences is a huge problem. It's not just the damage to the fences and the time that it takes, obviously on a large ranch you can't see it all from the yard. It's finding them [unclear] your cattle are out or there are 40 stray horses in, where did they get in? Well they got in where the buffalo went through and tore the fence down. That's frustrating. They are certainly a happy medium somewhere. I think buffalo are a fantastic animal. My brother-in-law has a small domestic herd. I love to see the tribe's buffalo if they’re in their own pasture. Grizzly bears are kind of the same thing. I like to see them in Glacier Park, don't like to see them in our backyard, and they are in our backyard, and I would certainly not want them to be extinct. I think one of the challenges to agriculture is as farms get bigger and we lose our political power just through fewer numbers, I think things like the American Prairie Federation buying up these ranches in eastern Montana is going to be kind of like drought. It's out there and we have to deal with it, and there's not a lot we can do about it. [01:06:30] Belinda Knapton: What would you suggest? [01:06:32] Collen Gustafson: Stay active. I don't know who said it, but there is a great quote, that the world is run by people who show up. It's true, and stay positive! Being belligerent and rude and getting in a fight over any issue, whether it's in your family or industry, doesn't work. We need to respect other people’s views. From my perspective, free roaming buffalo is a stupid idea, but from someone who lives here and doesn't fence and doesn't care about the condition of the grass it's a great idea, or from someone living in New York City who thinks it's a great idea it is, and I need to respect their view. I think in agriculture we need to be active in our local groups. We have a wonderful Marias River Livestock Association group here, Montana Stock Growers Association, Farm Bureau, whatever your group is be active and be heard, but be respectful. [01:07:38] Belinda Knapton: What does it mean to you to be part of an oral history project that is capturing the contributions of Montana Ag women. [01:07:51] Collen Gustafson: It's fabulous. I always kind of relayed everything to my children. To record the history and be part of that is a great honor. Looking back at some of family histories with my mother's...the Dawson side of the family being instrumental in the settling of Montana and the Indian side being here indigenously, and my husband's family have been real active in agriculture, and it's great to be part of that and to share the history and carry on the rural legacy, it's an honor. [01:08:37] Belinda Knapton: Do you have anything else you would like to add as a final statement? [01:08:38] Collen Gustafson: I guess if you have a chance to be in agriculture, whether it's a backyard garden or a flower pot on your apartment patio, it's a joy watching things grow. I hope everyone that has the opportunity to be part of agriculture takes that opportunity and appreciates the blessing that it is. [01:09:16] Belinda Knapton: As we end this on October 23, 2014. Again I am Belinda Knapton with Glacier County Conservation District and I am sitting here with Collen McGowan Gustafson. Thank you. ................
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