Jamie Ragsdale>>i completely understand that she is ...



WS 300 – TUESDAYS – ONLINE CHAT TRANSCRIPT 2-15-2005

*+**** Sheena--Malhotra entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:11pm Sheena Malhotra>>hi everyone

*+**** Cyrus--Farrokh entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:12pm

Jamie Ragsdale>>wow--i got booted and could not get back on

Pamela Healy>>Hello

Carlos Aponte>>Hola

Lisa Smith>>hello

Cyrus Farrokh>>!

Eden Vrieze>>Hello

Sheena Malhotra>>JR. Yes. I couldn't get in... I've been trying for the past few minutes

April Smith>>hi

Steven Tabolsky>>Strazvootzia.

*+**** Ingrid--Estrada entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:12pm

Sheena Malhotra>>called CSUN. they said the server went down

Daniel Leon>>good evening

Jamie Ragsdale>>oh, good--it wasn't just me

Sheena Malhotra>>i wonder if others are having trouble getting in

Cyrus Farrokh>>i was finally able to log on after trying for over 14 min

Sheena Malhotra>>CF

Sheena Malhotra>>i'm glad you all made it here

Sheena Malhotra>>let's wait for a few more minutes due to this situation... there might be others trying to get in

Sheena Malhotra>>you can use this time to coordinate group stuff amongst yourselves if you want.

Sheena Malhotra>>okay... perhaps we should get started.

Sheena Malhotra>>hopefully others will manage to log on soon.

Jamie Ragsdale>>it seems that when i went to watch the video last night--i was given the "color of fear"

Sheena Malhotra>>Jamie... you need to ask for what you need to watch. there are different videos on hold for different classes

*+**** Cynthia--Saucedo entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:26pm

Sheena Malhotra>>okay... from here on, let's start using the class rules to post...

Sheena Malhotra>>and let's begin the class discussion for the day

Sheena Malhotra>>on the readings

Sheena Malhotra>>i want to start with the Cherrie Moraga piece

Sheena Malhotra>>In this piece Moraga is making some crucial points about oppression and race.

Sheena Malhotra>>The danger lies in ranking the oppressions. The danger lies in failing to acknowledge the specificity of the oppression.

Sheena Malhotra>>what does she mean by that quote

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

*+**** April--Smith entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:29pm

Sheena Malhotra>>JR

Erica Dixon>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>and if anyone can relate it to the video you watched, please do

Jamie Ragsdale>>it's dangerous to consider one's oppression worse or better than another's . .and not to look at each in their own entity

Sheena Malhotra>>ED

Heidi Hiatt>>!

Jamie Ragsdale>>?

Carlos Aponte>>!

Erica Dixon>>I belive she meant that it becomes even more of a problem once we begin comparing opression with others instead of dealing with oppression together

Sheena Malhotra>>JR. Right... it's important not to get into trying to create an "oppression hierarchy"... or to get into a game of "oppression olympics"

Steven Tabolsky>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>HH, JR, CA

Eden Vrieze>>!

Artemis Avanesian>>I

Heidi Hiatt>>I think that when you rank types of oppression that you pit against each other the people who really need to band together

Megan Stallard>>!

Jamie Ragsdale>>is it possible to relate the readings to the video "The Color of Fear"--since that's what i watched?

Carlos Aponte>>There is also fear of trying to change oneself once you see yourself in the bodies of people you call different.

Sheena Malhotra>>ED. Yes. I like that. She is talking about needing to look at the connections between the different kinds of oppression... EVEN AS we look at the specificity of each one

Sheena Malhotra>>JR, sure.

Sheena Malhotra>>EV, MS

Sheena Malhotra>>ST

Pamela Healy>>?

Sheena Malhotra>>PH

Eden Vrieze>>I think she means when people get things pressured on their oppression...

Cyrus Farrokh>>!

Pamela Healy>>Doesn't that go back to last week's readings when we were talking about Black women and white women and the women's movement?

Megan Stallard>>I felt that the author kind of did rank oppression, she seemed very angry at her whiteness and on pg 32 par 3 she seperates women of color and white women

Lisa Smith>>!

Artemis Avanesian>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>CA. I want to make sure I understand you correctly... could you expand on that... it sounds like a very interesting take on it

Sheena Malhotra>>PH. Yes

Jamie Ragsdale>>in the film . . the men while talking discover that they often see people of darker or lighter skin as having it easier or harder in the "white world"--invariably--creating a hierarchical system

Sheena Malhotra>>MS. How is separating WOC and white women ranking it?

Sheena Malhotra>>LS, AA

Lisa Smith>>in the video, jordan was upset that the gay pride day had only a few supporters as opposed to the previous days rally. she was upset by that.

Artemis Avanesian>>I think she feels guilty that she has not been sensitive to the experiences of those women who are non white...

Steven Tabolsky>>And, in ranking oppression, one is judging oppressions - almost always the oppression done by others - Moraga argues that this is partly how one fails to recognize ourselves as oppressors.

Carlos Aponte>>One person can called another person different. Only later the first person would realize that the person he called different is the similiar to who he is. He once "shitted" on that other person

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Megan Stallard>>By making it seem like white women dont understand because they are not opressed in the same way

Sheena Malhotra>>LS. Okay, yes. June Jordan was saying that we have to look at the connections here. In both these rallies... we're talking about people's civil rights. If we see the commonalities, we can support each other and be a powerful voice

Sheena Malhotra>>JR

Carlos Aponte>>!

Jamie Ragsdale>>by judging oppression on a scale--we are essentially trivializing and denying the emotions and struggles of others

Sheena Malhotra>>JR

*+**** Sandy--Archila entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:35pm

Sheena Malhotra>>CA

Artemis Avanesian>>!

Carlos Aponte>>Women do the same thing. They judge other women, who are probably no different from them. They are afraid of admitting the truth

*-**** April--Smith left WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:36pm

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>MS I think she is calling on white women to be more aware. I think it would be dangerous to read what she's saying as 'ranking an oppression' ... rather, I think she's naming a phenomenon she sees ocurring

Carlos Aponte>>that they are not MUCH differene of each other (according to the book)

Megan Stallard>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>aa

Sheena Malhotra>>ms

Erica Dixon>>!

Artemis Avanesian>>She underestands what it means to be oppressed and what it does to a person.

Sheena Malhotra>>okay... just a minute, everyone

Sheena Malhotra>>i don't want to leave you with the impression that what Moraga is advocating is a policy where no one can point out differences

Steven Tabolsky>>!

Carlos Aponte>>!

Artemis Avanesian>>I

Sheena Malhotra>>ST, CA

Megan Stallard>>Maybe but the whole prose made me feel left out like I wasn't able to understand because I'm white...I just got a really negitive vibe from the author, like I'm to blame. I felt seperated and kind of angry that I was being thrown into a group "white people...white women"

Sheena Malhotra>>ED, MS

Sheena Malhotra>>AA

Erica Dixon>>what i got is that everyone should understand how they have been oppressed, in doing that then when we are the oppressors we will have a better understanding

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Erica Dixon>>and maybe can catch our fault by remembering how we felt

Carlos Aponte>>I agree with your statement, Moraga is saying that women find it difficult to POINT out the difference between them, they are afraid to do so

Sheena Malhotra>>MS. Okay... fair enough. I think Moraga was critiquing whiteness and the racism she has encountered from white folk.

Sheena Malhotra>>You can choose to take that on or not.

Artemis Avanesian>>May be she thinks that for the women's movement to be successful, women needed to connect with each other.

Steven Tabolsky>>I think she wants us to look more inward, and how its easy for some oppressed groups to forget - like when she talks about the black middle class and white gay men becoming "unconscious" - They have been given certain windows into privelege - some due to gender, class, etc.

Sheena Malhotra>>She's speaking from a space of some anger and that's part of what you're picking up.

Erica Dixon>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>ED

Erica Dixon>>I agree with the passage ST brought up

Sheena Malhotra>>ST. good point

Jamie Ragsdale>>as a white women, Megan, i understand how you would feel that . .and i also understand that it is also important for Moraga and other to express their feelings of frustration in attempts to make the "white women" aware of where she is coming from.

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Megan Stallard>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>JR, MS

Megan Stallard>>JR maybe but she still made me feel discriminated agaist, she pointed too many fingers

Madlena Yagubyan>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>MY

*-**** Sandy--Archila left WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:43pm

Jamie Ragsdale>>as women we have many similarities--and we need to build on those . . but we also need to hear and except other people's cultural differences--including the ones that we don't necessarily want to hear

Artemis Avanesian>>!

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

*+**** Sandy--Archila entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:44pm

Sheena Malhotra>>MS. I think you'll find that there is a lot of anger in some of the readings you will encounter. But I ask you to read what the person is saying with the understanding that it's coming from pain

Madlena Yagubyan>>something that she mentioned was that everyone has a reason to feel left out. She says she has light skin andher sister has darker skin, they're both picked on

Sheena Malhotra>>AA, JR

Carlos Aponte>>!

Jamie Ragsdale>>i don't believe she was intentially pointing fingers . ..even though her words did have a profound effect on me . . i realize that it's important for her to share these thoughts in order for her to work through them

Sheena Malhotra>>CA

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

*-**** Kari--Andersen left WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:45pm

Sheena Malhotra>>JR

Artemis Avanesian>>Morgan says," The real power, as you need and I well know, is collective. I can't afford to be afraid of you, nor you of me" (34) I like this code.

Erica Dixon>>!

*+**** April--Smith entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:45pm

Carlos Aponte>>How can one try to understand the pain of the author, if one was not in her position before or similar to the position Moraga was in?

Jamie Ragsdale>>i have similar thoughts towards males at times--and my writing may sound as if i'm pointing fingers--when in reality i'm trying to explain why i feel a certain way

Sheena Malhotra>>ED

Heidi Hiatt>>!

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Erica Dixon>>Moraga wasnt just speaking about race, she pointed to sexual preference as well when she stated "that the joys of looking like a white girl werent so great" when she realized she could be beaten for her sexual preference

Erica Dixon>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>HH

Sheena Malhotra>>JR

Heidi Hiatt>>AA I really agree with you... I work for a rape crisis clinic and some of the women say that we should not have men involved, but it only weekens our strength to cut the supporting men out...

Sheena Malhotra>>ED

Heidi Hiatt>>but the men need to be sensitive to certain issues...

Pamela Healy>> !

Steven Tabolsky>>!

Artemis Avanesian>>!

Jamie Ragsdale>>Erica: and that was a pivotal point in her thinking--and gave more clarity to the injustices felt---and i think what she was trying to say, at least in part--is that you don't truly understand until you live it (although that wasn't expressly said)

Erica Dixon>>i just think it goes deeper than race, everyday someone is taking on the roles of the dominant and the subordinate

Sheena Malhotra>>CA... I think perhaps one could try to be open to the understanding that one's experience of the world may not be what others are experiencing

Sheena Malhotra>>PH, ST

Pamela Healy>>I agree with Erica. It isn't all about race for Moraga. I believe a large portion of her pain is due to the oppression she feels because of her sexual preference, not just her Hispanic background.

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Megan Stallard>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>PH. Yes. and that's partially where she's trying to show the interconnectedness of the struggles

Sheena Malhotra>>jr, ms

Jamie Ragsdale>>to expand on Pamela's post--i think her pain is mostly caused by confusion and guilt over having to choose one identity over another

Artemis Avanesian>>!

Cyrus Farrokh>>!

*-**** April--Smith left WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:51pm

Megan Stallard>>I think a lot of her anger comes from her own self loathing and she feels the need to be angry at something else so as to not admit that she's mad at herslef for letting society influence her self worth so much.

Sheena Malhotra>>JR. Yes. And that totally relates to some of what the women were saying in "A Place of Rage" ... those times, when they were being asked to choose between the feminist movement and the black civil rights struggle

Sheena Malhotra>>AA

April Smith>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>CF

Sheena Malhotra>>AS

April Smith>>I think Moraga is also upset because she strayed away from her Hispanic culture - she felt this was some of her mothers beuty, but she brought up to only speak english, etc

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

*-**** Madlena--Yagubyan left WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:51pm

Cyrus Farrokh>>Her anger has been built up due resistance for so many years and as she says she is "with a foot in both worlds."

Steven Tabolsky>>It is interesting to me to hear some of the reactions to this piece, because to me Moraga is really speaking to women more than men - BUT as a man - its interesting to get what she is saying. When she talks about needing a "new language" - this is an intimate moment in her writing between women I think.

April Smith>>she is basically not truly being who she is - and she becomes aware of this when she expresses her sexuality

Sheena Malhotra>>MS. I think she does talk a little bit about how we "internalize our own oppression"... but I feel like you're being rather dismissive of the reality of her experience....

Sheena Malhotra>>sounds too much like "blaming the victim"

Artemis Avanesian>> Morgan also was feeling she was better off than her mother because she was fair-skinned and educated.

Sheena Malhotra>>jr

Jamie Ragsdale>>which leads me to the question: how do we deal with the transitions between our culture, gender, sexual identies, etc . . .how do we choose? and why should we have to?

Erica Dixon>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>AA. Yes. Meaning... that is the message she was getting from society and her family

Sheena Malhotra>>ED

Sheena Malhotra>>JR. I don't think we should have to choose.

Artemis Avanesian>>!

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Lisa Smith>>!

Cyrus Farrokh>>?

Sheena Malhotra>>AA, JR, LS

Erica Dixon>>I saw where moraga finally realized that she had a voice

Sheena Malhotra>>CF

Sheena Malhotra>>ED, yes

Lisa Smith>>I think this woman is definitely coming from a place of rage - she has problems with every one of her identities

Sheena Malhotra>>?How have I internalized my own oppression? How have I oppressed?? ? p.31

Jamie Ragsdale>>i don't think we should, either . . but the reality is that so many people do . . .how do we change this?

Sheena Malhotra>>i want to bring in that quote for discussion as well

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Cyrus Farrokh>>is her anger from years of being torn between two different worlds and she is torn because she is angered by not having been outspoken enough.

Artemis Avanesian>>Then, Morgan discovers she is a lesbian and feels a profound connection with her mother because being lesbian means the same as beeing poor and oppressed.

Sheena Malhotra>>JR. I think by claiming all of who we are whenever we can. Or maybe by flowing between different aspects of who we are if that's more comfortable to us

Sheena Malhotra>>JR

Jamie Ragsdale>>that phrase is a bit scary--because i fear it can be interpreted as people "making" or "causing" their own oppression--which i don't think is the case

Erica Dixon>>?

Pamela Healy>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>CF. once again... it's not about whether "she was outspoken enough"... it's more about why the two worlds set her up to be torn apart. she's actually looking at more of a systemic thing

Sheena Malhotra>>ED, PH

*-**** April--Smith left WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:57pm

Megan Stallard>>?

Pamela Healy>>I think sometimes, thought, people do cause their own oppression by not allowing themselves to be who they want to be or do things they want to do. For Moraga, she causes her own oppression by not allowing herself to be vocal enough on what she believes in. .

*+**** April--Smith entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:58pm

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Erica Dixon>>I thought the quote was referring to what we discussed previously, how we all take a role of being the one that is or have been oppressed at one point in or lives and how that has been embedded in our thinking ,actions

Erica Dixon>>and how we have been the ones that have taken on that dominant role?

*-**** Cynthia--Saucedo left WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:59pm

Sheena Malhotra>>LS. I think she is a profound writer... and yes, she might have anger at the injustice and inequalities in our society ... based on her experience. But I think she has a lot of insights to offer us ... and I'm a little taken by just how uncomfortable her 'rage' is making people feel.

*+**** Kari--Andersen entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 6:59pm

Sheena Malhotra>>MS, JR

Carlos Aponte>>!

Jamie Ragsdale>>Pam--i hear what you're saying--and i agree to an extent that people can change their behaviors and have a greater voice--but i wouldn't define that, necessarily as oppression.

Megan Stallard>>If we ahve all been oppressed and have all been the oppressor at one point then we are all victims and should voice our hurt and then and we should all take a part of the blame because we're all part of the problem when it comes down to it. Only then can a solution be created

Sheena Malhotra>>ED. Yes.

Lisa Smith>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>JR. I want to take up your concern.

Sheena Malhotra>>I think it's a valid one

Erica Dixon>> !

Sheena Malhotra>>but I think that she's actually writing from a place of wonderful honesty.

Sheena Malhotra>>she's not trying to play a game of ... i'm oppressed, so i'm pure and not capable of oppressing anyone else... rather she's claiming all the ways in which she has also turned around and enacted oppression

Sheena Malhotra>>MS... that might be astarting point

Sheena Malhotra>>LS, ED

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Lisa Smith>>i am not uncomfortable she is a reflection of society everyone should try to see

Erica Dixon>>right, but in order to do that and achieve that we must be able to understand how being oppressed has made us feel, then we would be able to appreciate the struggles of others. If we fail to understand that then there is no way to truly come together and learn

Artemis Avanesian>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>LS. Yes... I can second that.

Sheena Malhotra>>JR

Sheena Malhotra>>AA

Carlos Aponte>>I was going to comment on that. Moraga is confused about who she is, she was raised to thinking she was "white" ignoring her mother's roots. She felt that she has to change herself, she wanted to be proud of he mother's true identity. That is courageous thing to do.

Jamie Ragsdale>>i completely understand that she is looking at herself, and the reason why she is the way she is . . as a basis for a greater personal understanding and a way to get to where she needs to be in her own head

Artemis Avanesian>>Morgan also writes about her mother who has been oppressed because of "beeing poor, uneducated, and Chicana" (28).

Sheena Malhotra>>CA. I think she was confused or led to believe that one way was better. But I think she has a lot of clarity about her identity in the piece. And yes... she is very courageous about all that she's taking on and all that she's revealing.

Heidi Hiatt>>!

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>HH, JR

Steven Tabolsky>>?

Sheena Malhotra>>ST

Sheena Malhotra>>? ?But it is not really difference the oppressor fears so much as similarity.? - p.33

Sheena Malhotra>>this is the last quote from her piece I wanted us to comment on

Jamie Ragsdale>>i'm personally not offended or upset by her "rage" and i embrace it with my own . . i think it's great that she's expressing it . . .just as i hope others would be if i expressed my own

Lisa Smith>>!

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Megan Stallard>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>JR. Yes. I think that anger against injustice can be transformative

Steven Tabolsky>>Who exactly did Cherie Moraga oppress? Is this just an expression for what one feels inside?

Sheena Malhotra>>LS, JR, MS

Lisa Smith>>I think this speaks to the need for people to dominate the ones considered weaker or less for some reason

Heidi Hiatt>>I think she is coming from an interesting viewpoint in that she felt a kind of privledge from being fair skinned and then recognizing that and also realizing that she is in conflict with the sexuality of her cultures too...

Heidi Hiatt>>thats where she sees herself as an oppressor in once being proud of fairer skin

Sheena Malhotra>>ST. I think she's saying that some ways we all have that potential to oppress others, if we don't look at how power adn oppression work.

Jamie Ragsdale>>people tend to fear change and difference . . .and that fear of difference has led us to bridge a larger and larger gap between people that we don't know enough about . . and once that gap is there--it's even scarier to realize--hey, wait--maybe, in some ways, we're really the same

*-**** Sandy--Archila left WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:07pm

Steven Tabolsky>>?

*+**** Sandy--Archila entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:07pm

Megan Stallard>>I respect that she is a strong woman expressing her feelings, but for her to express such distaste and anger towards whites is unacceptable, she's doing to my race what she doesn't want done to her.

Sheena Malhotra>>ST

Sheena Malhotra>>JR. Yes. I think that she's also hinting at the social construction of difference.

Erica Dixon>>!

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Megan Stallard>>?

Sheena Malhotra>>ED, JR

April Smith>>!

Steven Tabolsky>>What would oppression look like in reality? Not hiring someone for a job, calling them a bad name? Beating them? Would Moraga ever actually have done any of those things?

Sheena Malhotra>>MS. those two situations are not the same

Jamie Ragsdale>>Megan: i understand where you're coming from--but let me ask you a question . . .have you ever expressed rage at men--for not completely undestanding what it's like to be a woman?

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Erica Dixon>>I'm not sure but it seems that when we know someone is different and we have been taught that this person is a certain way, once that teaching has been challenged and we realize their are similarities people may tend to be afraid

Sheena Malhotra>>AS

April Smith>>I didn't think that she was expressing "such distaste and anger" toward whites - I think she was telling her view point on how she was treated different because she was born with lighter skin and then her experiences about her sexuality

Jamie Ragsdale>>i don't think oppression has to be a physical action, Steve

Steven Tabolsky>>?

Sheena Malhotra>>ST. Those are all forms. There are others. Certain kinds of silences, certain kinds of dismissiveness

Sheena Malhotra>>the list can go on. we can find a lot of ways to oppress one another

Sheena Malhotra>>ST

Steven Tabolsky>>JR - then what constitutes your baseline for oppression? Is one an oppressor if one merely "thinks" something?

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Megan Stallard>>JR no I tend to not express anger towards people for being different or because I don't understand myself. A quick question kinda off topic.....will we be reading any contemporary feminist prose?

April Smith>>opression can be the little things too: superiority over another race, limited access to financial or job stability due to your race/gender, etc.

Sheena Malhotra>>Let me put out a definition that might be useful in this conversation. RACISM = Prejudice + Power

Jamie Ragsdale>>i don't have a baseline for oppression because it can take so many different forms

Sheena Malhotra>>by that equation... when we "just think" something about a group of people, or pre-judge them... that's prejudice

April Smith>>Prof. that's a good way to thing of it...

Sheena Malhotra>>when we have the power to enact that prejudice in any way, that's racism.

April Smith>>*think*

Steven Tabolsky>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>power can be institutional or personal

Sheena Malhotra>>ST

Cyrus Farrokh>>?

Sheena Malhotra>>CF

Cyrus Farrokh>>therefore, power and prejudice leads to the actions of racism

Steven Tabolsky>>Excellent - so in this paradigm "oppression" takes the form of a positive action in reality. I agree that prejudice can definitely be in the mind.

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>jr

Jamie Ragsdale>>so on that token . .if we can reverse the effects of prejudism . . (through education etc) we can essentially eradicate racism --in theory

Sheena Malhotra>>in theory

Steven Tabolsky>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>st

Sheena Malhotra>>and people who don't have power, cannot be racist... they can just be prejudiced.

*-**** Kari--Andersen left WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:16pm

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>so groups that have historically had power in society... whites in this one, or males, etc. have a lot more power to enact their prejudice on other groups than groups that do not

Sheena Malhotra>>ST, JR

Jamie Ragsdale>>but in reality--we all have some sort of power--at least over other individuals

Sheena Malhotra>>JR. it is context specific of course.

Jamie Ragsdale>>of course

Sheena Malhotra>>for example... as the professor, i have more power than you in this context

Jamie Ragsdale>>true :)

Sheena Malhotra>>but i may not in another context, with my white, senior colleagues

*+**** Mireya--Soskos entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:17pm

*+**** Mireya--Soskos entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:17pm

Steven Tabolsky>>Actually, we all have prejudices - its teaching people to "act" better that's important. This is what is usually meant by "values". Its the "what we actually do" that's important. If a person doesn't like blacks or minorities for some reason, BUT consistantly hires accross the racial spectrum AND is outwardly terrific with them... you see my point.

Sheena Malhotra>>power and all the ways it manifests is one of the huge underlying topics of discussion in this class

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Mireya Soskos>>mireya!

Sheena Malhotra>>JR, MS

Megan Stallard>>!

Megan Stallard>>

Megan Stallard>>

Sheena Malhotra>>MS

Megan Stallard>>nevermind

Jamie Ragsdale>>Steven: i would hope it would go a bit further--rather than patting oneself on the back and saying--hey, look--i'm hiring "those" people--so i'm not racist . . . . .that one attempts to understand a group of people and find common ground

Steven Tabolsky>>of course

Sheena Malhotra>>ST. I see what you're getting at. And there's a way in which at least that person is NOT letting their prejudices affect the material reality of folks of color.

Jamie Ragsdale>> . . .and figure out why one HAS those kinds of feelings towards that group

Mireya Soskos>>sorry for joining so late the server at csun was down and kept trying until now .

Sheena Malhotra>>The problem is that usually we DO act out our prejudice in some way or the otehr

*-**** Mireya--Soskos left WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:20pm

Steven Tabolsky>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>MS. Not a problem... we all had quite an experience getting here

Sheena Malhotra>>ST

Sheena Malhotra>>If we can.. that is... (finishing up my comment to Steve)

Sheena Malhotra>>okay... we really should move on to the next readings

Mireya Soskos>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>let's talk about audre lorde's piece

Sheena Malhotra>>MS

Carlos Aponte>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>what does Lorde define as the "mythical norm"?

Pamela Healy>> !

Sheena Malhotra>>CA

Steven Tabolsky>>I don't think that is necessarily true for all. If we teach our children how to act, people can overcome their perceptions of difference - which I think is the protogenetor of prejudice "They are different than I am -so I am better". We can say to ourselves "Self - thanks for sharing, but that is not necessarily the truth"

Carlos Aponte>>One thing that attract my attention from the beginning of the reading is our refusal to recognize different between us that are separating us (from the Lorde's essay)

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Erica Dixon>>!

Lisa Smith>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>jr, ED, LS

Lisa Smith>>something we know we will never be

Jamie Ragsdale>>i believe she said the mythical norm was white, male, heterosexual, christian

*-**** Ingrid--Estrada left WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:25pm

Artemis Avanesian>>!

Carlos Aponte>>?

Erica Dixon>>what I got was when someone is discussing how an individual is for example with stereotypes people would say "oh I dont think that way"

Sheena Malhotra>>JR. Thank you

Sheena Malhotra>>AA, CA

Mireya Soskos>>Or that is me!

Carlos Aponte>>I dont seem to recall where she mention mythical norm in the essay

Erica Dixon>>!

Mireya Soskos>>on page 353

Jamie Ragsdale>>oh, and thin, young and financially secure

Erica Dixon>>CA p.353 4th paragraph

Sheena Malhotra>>ed

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>? In a society where good = profit, then there must always be a group of people who become the surplus? through oppression

Erica Dixon>>sorry i already responded

Artemis Avanesian>>Those want to pretend all women are the same and want to fight against men, the oppressors.

Sheena Malhotra>>what is your opinion of her reason for why we make differences hierarchical

Sheena Malhotra>>JR

Artemis Avanesian>>!

Cyrus Farrokh>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>AA, CF

Cyrus Farrokh>>to keep certain groups oppressed and others in control (power)

Sheena Malhotra>>CF. yes. and she's actually tying it to a profit economy and the need for surplus labor

Jamie Ragsdale>>it's a business idea--that their always has to be a few of what's "wanted" . . and not to much or too little

Sheena Malhotra>>women have been surplus labor, for example, for a long time.

Sheena Malhotra>>as have other groups

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Artemis Avanesian>>I think she means is that at a deeper level, those white feminists(aho are heterosexual, middle-class, and young) know that there are more privileged than other women of color.

Sheena Malhotra>>jr

Erica Dixon>>?

Jamie Ragsdale>>idealizing for a minute here--that we live in a completely equal world among genders, cultures etc . according to Lorde's model--who, then would become the surplus workers?

Sheena Malhotra>>ED

Erica Dixon>>I apologize but what are we discussing now?

Sheena Malhotra>>alright... I also want to hear from those of you who have not been posting so far

Mireya Soskos>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>ED. we're talking about one of Lordes' ideas about difference... i.e. that we rank difference... and make some groups undesirable... and those groups become the surplus, cheap/free labor in our society

Sheena Malhotra>>MS

Pamela Healy>>!

Erica Dixon>>ok thanks

Mireya Soskos>>Thank you I like Ed was a little lost in the conversation here

Sheena Malhotra>>ph

Pamela Healy>>She also mentions that the generation gap is an important tool in a repressive society. It enables the young to not be able to join with the older generation if they see them as contempetible or suspect or excess, to quote Lourdes.

Sheena Malhotra>>here's another quote on the specificity of oppression... to build on AA's comment... and on the Moraga piece:

Sheena Malhotra>>Some problems we share as women, some we do not. You fear your children will grow up to join the patriarchy and testify against you, we fear our children will be dragged from a car and shot down in the street, and you will turn your backs upon the reason they are dying.?

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>PH. Yes. all the differences that we highlight for various purposes

Sheena Malhotra>>jr

Erica Dixon>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>ed

Steven Tabolsky>>!

Erica Dixon>>just wanted to state that, that passage really touched me

Sheena Malhotra>>st

Jamie Ragsdale>>it is a very clear message that highlights the differences between classes and cultures . . .and the reality of it is really quite sad

Sheena Malhotra>>let's start weaving in the yamada piece on "invisibility"

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>i'd like EACH of you to pick out your favorite quote from that piece and TYPE it in NOW... don't wait for me to call on you

Sheena Malhotra>>JR

Pamela Healy>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>PH

Carlos Aponte>>We need to raise our voice a little more, even as they say to us "This is so uncharacteristic of you."

Sheena Malhotra>>please give the page number too

Erica Dixon>>My experience leads me to believe that contrary to what i thought i had actually been contributing to my own sterotyping

Carlos Aponte>>That was my favorite quote and page # 40

Jamie Ragsdale>>"We need to raise our voices a little more, even as they say to us "This is so uncharacteristic of you." pg 40

Sheena Malhotra>>CA. thank you.

Pamela Healy>>I particularly thought her statement that she had to let go her own feelings because "I would 'let it go because it was pointless to argue with people who didn't even know their remark was racist" can be so true.

Erica Dixon>>oh p.36

Cyrus Farrokh>>'i didnt even know the asian ameriacnas felt ooppressed"

Steven Tabolsky>>Yes, different groups have more pressing worries/concerns - This reminds me of the Aptheker book when she related the story of the Armenian woman escaping with her children. Mrs. Tutuian might very well say - I don't care about having the right to vote - I want my kids to survive tonight.

Jamie Ragsdale>>ooops--perhaps i should pick a different one

Pamela Healy>>pg. 36

Megan Stallard>>!I had created an underground culture of survival for myself and had become the eyes of others the person I was trying not to be

Sheena Malhotra>>ST... yes good connection

Mireya Soskos>>"I had created an underground culture of survival for myself and had become in the eyes of others the person I was trying not to be"

Sheena Malhotra>>MS. I like that.

Sheena Malhotra>>Both the MS's... trippy

Megan Stallard>>weird

Artemis Avanesian>>"It made me angry. Their anger made me angry, because I didn't even know the Asian Americans felt oppressed. I didn't expect their anger" (35).

Lisa Smith>>Part of being visible is refusing to separate the actors from their actions, and demanding that they be responsible for them

Mireya Soskos>>I know we also met today at the library to watch the video, was weird too since we never met before

Jamie Ragsdale>>"Not only the young, but those who feel powerless over their own lives know what it is like not to make a difference on anyone or anything." p.39

Sheena Malhotra>>LS. That's a really good one too

Lisa Smith>>thnx

Eden Vrieze>>I like..."We need to raise our voice a little more, eve as they say to us " this is so uncharacterisitic of you." to Finally recognize our own invisibility is to finally be on the path toward visibility.Invisibility is not a natural state for anyone"

Eden Vrieze>>p. 40

Sheena Malhotra>>EV. Yes. Invisibility is NOT a natural state for everyone.

April Smith>>The future of our earth may depend upon the ability of all women to identify and develop new definitions of power and new patterns of relating across difference."

Heidi Hiatt>>The quality of light by which we scrutinize our lives has direct bearing upon the product which we live, and upon the changes which we hope to bring about through those lives." ( Poetry Is Not A Luxury) this is from Lorde, but I wanted to type it in somewhere... and everyone has mentioned my memories from yamada

Sheena Malhotra>>I like that we're getting a real sense of the article and what you each related to through these quotes

Sandy Archila>>"We need to raise our voice a little more, even as they say to us " this is so uncharacterisitic of you."pg 40

Eden Vrieze>>Because I find it inteteresting...Its like people to make themselves visiblility

Steven Tabolsky>>"I have, for too long a period of time accepted the opinon of others as if they were objective events totally out of my control."

Artemis Avanesian>>"Invisibility is an unnatural disaster: reflections of an Asian American women"

Sheena Malhotra>>HH. I love that quote.

Sheena Malhotra>>Lorde is such a poetic and powerful writer

Sheena Malhotra>>actually... let's open this up now...

Sheena Malhotra>>to the Aptheker chapter.

Eden Vrieze>>I also like anoter quote, "the act of god" to the "act of man"

Jamie Ragsdale>>!

Eden Vrieze>>p. 39

Sheena Malhotra>>JR

Megan Stallard>>!

Jamie Ragsdale>>one more thing about the Yamada piece:

Jamie Ragsdale>>i have to admit that this article was more difficult for me to read--in that--i know what i can do to help bridge the gaps between other cultures and my own . . .but i'm more at a loss as what to do here? which is why the quote i mentioned b4 stuck out for me

Sheena Malhotra>>would you each post something from Aptheker... so we get a good sense of the chapter we read for today?

Sheena Malhotra>>ms

Steven Tabolsky>>?

Megan Stallard>>I'm actually having trouble finishing the aptheker chapter...I just run out of time and I focus so much on the other readings.

Megan Stallard>>it's a lot of reading and re reading

Sheena Malhotra>>st

Steven Tabolsky>>a quote or a thought?

Pamela Healy>>The strategies women employ in their daily lives are relative tot heir conditions. They are relative to the tools and resources women have available, including the internalized fears of being and acting themselves.

Pamela Healy>>Page 180.

Sheena Malhotra>>JR. I guesss being supportive is what is important... questioning things like our own stereotypes of As. Am. - whether positive or not

Carlos Aponte>>P. 175 --- To focus on women's resisttence ... It is to acknowlege the meaning women invest in their daily lives, to acknowledge this work on its own merits, to acknowledge that many women are indeed activists who have participated in the shaping of history, and have "walked purposefully in and out of the front door of their lives."

Heidi Hiatt>>I think that quote by lordes illustrates the importance of looking at types of oppression in regard to the perceptions and actions of the people who experience them...

Sheena Malhotra>>MS. Yes, it is a lot of reading. But stay with it.

Erica Dixon>> women have to find their place where they can in a society that is controlled by men, they take on different roles p.174 do i need to quote it?

Sheena Malhotra>>i hope it will bring you a lot too.

Jamie Ragsdale>>thought: each individual story, by so many women in so many situations, have so much in common--their strenght and courage in adversity--even through the span of time--is amazing and touching

Artemis Avanesian>>"Mrs. Tutuian's story set in world war I reminded me of others from the jewish ghettos of world war II...Aconference was held in New York city, march 1983..."

Sheena Malhotra>>aptheker is important in the basic foundational ideas she puts forth... and in the pieces/quotes of poetry, stories she pulls together for us

Lisa Smith>>women's resistance is informed by the logic of survival

Cyrus Farrokh>>"womens resistance was not selfconsciously oppositionla, but it was self-consciously pursued and frequently subversive of male will and authority" (179)

Steven Tabolsky>>This was a compelling paragraph for me... "...what appears as collaboration or accommodation in a masculinist perspective may be reinterpreted from a woman's standpoint as resistance." Eye of the beholder type stuff...

Mireya Soskos>>Mrs Tutuian story was to me heartfelt, my favorite part was when she said, no matter what she signed nothing could change her, because to her being an Armenian was a matter of ancestry, of heritage, of the heart" what a wonderful quote that is !

Sheena Malhotra>>LS. yes... she's right about that

Jamie Ragsdale>>i liked the turkey eggs :)

Erica Dixon>>p.174 "hemmed in by patriarchal, racist and class restrictions the overwhelming majority of ordinary women have made their existence around the cracks and crevices allowed them by this multivaceted authority, Some are imporverished as single heads of household.."

Sheena Malhotra>>MS. yes. different ways of seeing. goes to ST's comment too

Eden Vrieze>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>JR. yes

Sheena Malhotra>>EV

Daniel Leon>>"to focus on women's resistance as it exists within the parameters of the daily lives of women is not to celebrate the confinement, or romanticize the enormity of damage inflicted. it is to acknoledge the meaning women invest in their daily lives, to acknowledge this work on its own...

Heidi Hiatt>> "Women are said to value open over closed structure, to eschew the clear-cut and unambiguous, to refuse sharp division between inner and outer self and other. [They]/We are also said to depend upon and to prize our private inner lives of the mind."

Sheena Malhotra>>I haven't heard from casey, april, madlena, daniel and talia

Heidi Hiatt>>i have more than one aptheker book...:)

Sheena Malhotra>>are you all there?

Talia Zottola>>I believe each story is able to teach a lesson about the strength we can all find within. I especially liked he part where she wrote.....every ordinary woman is extraordinary. Pg.179

Eden Vrieze>>I really like the part on Mrs. Tutuian..nevermind, I just saw Mierya Soskos s comment. I was going to say the quote

Daniel Leon>>above

April Smith>>i am trying to find a meaningful quote

Carlos Aponte>>(I am here)

*+**** Cherie--Campbell entered WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:49pm

Mireya Soskos>>1

Erica Dixon>>!

Megan Stallard>>!

Sheena Malhotra>>MS, ED, MS

Erica Dixon>>Is it alright if i sign off i have to head home?

Madlena Yagubyan>> Women's histoey has added whole new categories to the professional discourse such as sexuality, violence against women, reproductive freedom, child care, and maternity. p. 172

*-**** Cyrus--Farrokh left WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:50pm

Artemis Avanesian>>" It was first told to her granddaughter, Arlene Avakian, when she was fourteen years old. It is the story of an Armenian women who survived the massacres of her people in 1915..."

Jamie Ragsdale>>i really liked that quote, Daniel

Sheena Malhotra>>ED. wow... you're right... it's basically time to stop

Megan Stallard>>I really like that she explains the word Resistence, I had never really thought of it before now

Daniel Leon>>thought the quote on 175 put alot of the dailiness into perspective as to what we dont necessarily see normally

Sheena Malhotra>>thank you all for that class

Sheena Malhotra>>it was shorter than it should have been due to server problems.

Steven Tabolsky>>Thank you.

Sheena Malhotra>>and have a good night.

April Smith>>"Complied in this way, the personal stories map a political reality " pg 220

Megan Stallard>>bye guys very thought provoking stuff tonight

Mireya Soskos>>I love the fact that bettina ties in these women's stories together because she is right they all have the a similar pattern these women were all about protecting their family and improving their daily live, no matter what their background was they all struggle the same way.

Steven Tabolsky>>See you all in a couple weeks! Great chat!

Sheena Malhotra>>PH

Pamela Healy>>Are we not back on line until 3/8 and a test on 3/1?

Megan Stallard>>Lisa you can pick whchever

Lisa Smith>>ok. good night all

Mireya Soskos>>Okay those that had server problems, we will not be penalized for joining late??

Sheena Malhotra>>let me check the schedule... but that's probably right

Sheena Malhotra>>MS. no you won't

Pamela Healy>>Thanks.

Sheena Malhotra>>I'll send out a class email. but basically you'll just go ot this WebCT page... and there'll be a link to test there that you can take

Artemis Avanesian>>are meeting online is on 3/8 right, and the test is 3/1

Artemis Avanesian>>Thank You

Sheena Malhotra>>good night then. see you on 3/8

*-**** Sheena--Malhotra left WS300OL_18606-Malhotra-Sp05_Room1. Tuesday, February 15, 2005 7:56pm

................
................

In order to avoid copyright disputes, this page is only a partial summary.

Google Online Preview   Download