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Committee Members:
Sheriff Ed Dean, Chairperson – Marion County Sheriff’s Office
Sheriff Bob Peryam – Monroe County Sheriff’s Office
Mr. Sam Johnson – Polk County Board of County Commissioners
Attendees:
Lt. Jeff Owens – Marion County Sheriff’s Office
Bernard Johns – Seminole County Sheriff’s Office
Lt. Joseph Gaudette – Charlotte County Sheriff’s Office
Chief Tom Wilder – Marion County Sheriff’s Office
Major Paul Laxton – Marion County Sheriff’s Office
Captain Sean Farrell – Orange County Corrections Department
Janice B. Hill – Pinellas County, Retired
Wanda H. White- Escambia County Sheriff’s Office
Isaiah Dennard – Florida Sheriff’s Association
Bobbi Pohlman-Rodgers – G4S Youth Services
Major Michael Allen – Polk County Sheriff’s Office
Bryant Grant – Polk County Sheriff’s Office
David Harvey – Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office
Jimmy Holderfield – Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office
David Kilcrease – Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office
Sam Johnson – Polk County Board of County Commissioners
Don Ross – Palm Beach County Sheriff’s Office
Capt. Selena Favors- Marion County Sheriff’s Office
Cpl. James Aguiar – Marion County Sheriff’s Office
Linda Siemer – Disability Rights Florida
Penny Fleming – Seminole County Sheriff’s Office
Loretha Tolbert-Rich – Ocala Community Care
Christopher T. White – Disability Rights Florida
Anne Herman – Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office
Sheriff Robert Peryam – Monroe County Sheriff’s Office
Paul Adee – Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office
Robert Woody – Florida Department of Juvenile Justice
Lt. David Parisi – Sarasota County Sheriff’s Office
Kristina Deal – FILS
Sgt. Brad Delaere – St. Johns County Sheriff’s Office
Wayne Evans- Florida Sheriff’s Association
Rick Bedson – Department of Juvenile Justice
William Miller – Public Defender
Vincent Gibney – Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office
Robena Dubose – Seminole County Sheriff’s Office
Debbie Moody – Florida Corrections Accreditation Commission
Billy Walls – Florida Corrections Accreditation Commission
David Utter – Southern Poverty Law Center
Capt. Clint Bowen – Marion County Sheriff’s Office
Major John Vowinkel – Marion County Sheriff’s Office
Jeff Shealy – Department of Juvenile Justice
Andrea Costello – Florida Institutional Legal Services
Welcome: Sheriff Dean welcomed everyone and thanked them for their attendance.
Established Quorum
Sheriff Dean established a quorum
Legal Notifications
Sheriff Dean established that the proper legal notifications had been made.
Pledge of Allegiance
Sheriff Dean led everyone in the invocation and pledge of allegiance.
Approval of Minutes:
A motion to approve minutes from last meeting was made by Sheriff Peryam and seconded by Mr. Johnson. The motion carried unanimously.
OLD BUSINESS:
Standard 1.01
Standards Review Subcommittee – Presenter – Wanda White
Standard: 1.01- Detention Facility" - A municipal or county jail, stockade, prison camp and every other place used by a municipality or a county for the lawful detention of inmates charged with or convicted of a felony, misdemeanor, a municipal offense, or who is otherwise held pursuant to court order.
Proposal: (1.10) "Detention Facility" - A county jail, a county stockade, a county work camp, a prison camp, a county residential probation center, and any every other place used by a county for the lawful detention of inmates charged with or convicted of a felony, misdemeanor, a county or municipal offense, or who is otherwise held pursuant to court order.
Rationale: The FMJS are applicable to Road Camps. FMJS 2.01 states in part, "The supervision, care, custody, treatment, housing and general handling of inmates will be in accordance with these standards. No matter what you call the building/area/program, it houses/controls county pre-trial or county sentenced inmates/wards/clients; we have a legal obligation for their care, custody, control and safety of the community.
Standards Review Subcommittee Recommendation: Approve
Discussion: Ms. White reminded everyone of this standard. This provides for road camps and that Florida Model Jail Standards applies to road camps. She stated that this definition is strictly addressing adult facilities. She stated they were tasked with looking at the Florida Statute. She advised this is a combination of the Florida Statute definition of municipal and county detention facility and with one addition. The recommendation “A county jail, a county stockade, a county work camp, a prison camp, a county residential probation center, and any every other place used by a county for the lawful detention of inmates charged with or convicted of a felony, misdemeanor, a county or municipal offense, or who is otherwise held pursuant to court order.” Ms. White stated that the part which refers to being held pursuant to court order is not part of the statute definition. She stated that was added because it is a part of the Florida Model Jails definition. They felt that they do have people in jail who are not being charged with felonies or misdemeanors. They are being held as a result of a court order. That is the proposed definition and would only apply to adult facilities.
Sheriff Dean asked if there was any comment from anyone. He asked if this has been through the Standards Committee. Ms. White replied it had and met with their approval. He stated that from his standpoint, this makes sense. Sheriff Dean stated he thought the average citizen who looks to this Committee to set the standards would think it would apply to anywhere an inmate was incarcerated in the State of Florida. He turned it over to the Committee.
Motion: Sheriff Peryam motioned to approve, with a second by Sam Johnson. Motion carries unanimously.
Standard: Chapter 20 – Youth Detention Standards
Standards Review Subcommittee, Presenter: Lt. Owens
Proposal: Lt. Owens
Rationale:
Standards Review Subcommittee Recommendation:
Discussion: Lt. Owens stated there was a handout of Chapter 20 that he believes everyone has a copy of. He stated this was the final draft of what the Standards Review Subcommittee voted on. However, as a reminder, there are four or five other handouts as well that signify opinions that are a departure from some items in the document. He stated that in the process of building this document they had input from a variety of groups and persons who were here to speak for those groups. Lt. Owens stated that the most impressive part of the process was that even though there were a few things that everyone did not agree with 100 percent, the focus and the goal was taking care of the youth in Florida as safely and appropriately as possible. He stated the first item he would like to speak to was the letters he mentioned. The first he would speak to is from the Secretary of the Department of Juvenile Justice. There are five letters. Ms. Wansley Walters has provided a letter addressed to Sheriff Dean and the FMJS. She listed some concerns one of which is the JJIS system. Lt. Owens stated he also received a letter from the Florida Association of Counties and there may be some more people who wish to speak to this. He advised there are some issues if the counties who choose to operate under the Chapter 20 guidelines. If they were not to join in with the JJIS software, there is a fear that the legislature, County Commissioners and county staff in general across the State will not be privy to a true snapshot of what is happening across the State with youth detention centers. That is a firmly entrenched stance, not only from Secretary Walters, but also from Sarah Carroll who wrote on behalf of the Florida Association of Counties. Mr. Bedson commented frequently during the process that DJJ would be willing to tutor and teach any county how to operate the system and provide the software.
Lt. Owens stated that the next issue mentioned by Secretary Walters in her letter, referring to it as a “major concern” is the chemical weapons and taser issue” that was voted on. He stated that when the vote came up to the Subcommittee, it was not a unanimous vote in favor of allowing chemical weapons and tasers in these types of facilities. Many of the things we voted on were unanimous; however, these two items were not, specifically. As a sidebar, to conclude that comment, there were other conversations as it pertains to what happens as a last resort. No one on the Subcommittee had a problem if it were a last resort issue to allow law enforcement officers into one of these facilities with those types of weapons to respond to an incident. Lt. Owens stated that in his experience as a law enforcement officer, if an adult prison loses control of their population, the same thing will happen and they will call the Sheriff.
Sheriff Dean advised to get through the Chapter 20 issues and understand where we are and everyone will be allowed the chance to speak.
Commissioner Johnson asked if there was a cost for the JJIS system. It was replied that there was no cost other than that of staff provided to operate the system. DJJ will provide the software and the training. Ms. White stated it could be a staffing issue if the Sheriff’s Office already has a jail management system in which they are entering data. Sheriff Dean stated we will have a lot of opportunities to speak to this.
Lt. Owens stated is the issue of mandatory video requirements which has reached with influence in writing and there were some comments during the regular meetings of not only protecting the juvenile, but of protecting the Counties and the Sheriffs’ from liability by use of those cameras. A lot of those issues were discussed. The mandatory video requirement did not pass through the Subcommittee with a positive vote. Lt. Owens stated there were four issues, tasers, chemical weapons, JJIS and mandatory video.
Sheriff Dean stated he did not see in Secretary Walters’ letter. Sheriff Dean asked if the Florida Association of Counties speak to in their letter.
Lt. Owens stated that in 5.04 in the Appendix, there was a discussion on what a special needs youth is and the philosophy as to what staff and medical staff should recognize. Mr. Bedson proposed some excellent legal language to that effect. Mr. White of Disability Rights Florida provided some language that was more clinical, however, in page two of his letter; it spells out very succinctly what a staff member might recognize as a special needs youth. He stated that the final language had not been agreed upon; Lt. Owens stated he would have no problem adding the clinical side of this to the Appendix as well. He would compare it to some of the training they have had state-wide as far as suicide prevention. He stated it is one thing to train some of the medical staff symptoms of suicidal tendencies, however, if you have your corrections staff trained in this, it makes it twice as well. That is what he sees here. If the corrections staff can see some of these behaviors, it would be a second set of eyes. He recommends that this be placed in the Appendix.
Sheriff Dean asked if we were talking about a fifth possible change and that’s in the Disability Rights letter beginning on the first page and continuing on the top of the second page beginning with 5.04 – Special Needs. This language would be adopted into the Appendix, which Lt. Owens confirmed.
Lt. Owens had one final note which speaks to PAR topics. He stated they worked on blended staff opportunities for those counties across the State who chooses to do this and do it with a blended staff. The PAR philosophy does fit well and the standard was crafted to fit those counties who choose to do this with a blended staff. In regards to Mr. White’s comments, Lt. Owens feels they have answered those PAR essentials. Lt. Owens stated Mr. Utter is here and we received his letter. He will elaborate and speak to that. It was observed by reading his letter; he did support Mr. White’s commentary. In addition to that comment, Mr. Utter does provide some other suggestions pertaining to the Appendix and also some support of Secretary Walters’ stance on chemical weapons and support against the taser issue. Sheriff Dean asked Mr. Utter to address the panel.
Mr. Utter wanted to echo Lt. Owens’ comments. He stated that they believe the issues Secretary Walters raised should be mandatory, should be adopted by the FSA. In addition, they do support in full the concerns that Mr. White raised. Mr. Utter stated their primary concern is that the Sheriff’s Association and the standards veer too far towards an adult model. He urged the Committee to work closely with the Department of Juvenile Justice and adopt what they have had in place for over 30 or 40 years, in full. He felt we are missing an opportunity to not only meet this constitutional floor, but exceed what the law says and that Florida becomes a model for the rest of the country in this regard.
Sheriff Dean stated that specifically, Secretary Walters addresses the use of force and the fact that tasers and chemical devices can be used by those responding to an incident, but not by those that are just routinely in with the juveniles. Also, she addresses the Juvenile Justice Information System to be tied into that so that when one takes a juvenile into the system that the State would be notified of that through JJIS. It ultimately is as short as five days, ten days, 21 days and sometimes they are held over a little longer, but they are going to receive them anyway.
Mr. Utter stated that was in essence, at a minimum, something that the Secretary raises in her letter. The importance of JJIS touches upon the priority of detention reform that the Governor and Secretary Walters have made. The JJIS is part of the system that ensures we only detain children who are a threat to public safety or a threat not to appear in court. It is an important corollary, knowing where these children are, knowing where they have been is critical to only detaining the ones who need to be there.
Sheriff Dean asked about the last point pertaining to Disability Rights and the point that Mr. White addressed to the Committee about the adoption of the definition of special needs.
Mr. Utter advised that if he had to specify one standard that he thinks would be important to have in addition to the ones raised by Secretary Walters and Mr. White, it would be a requirement that all facilities which detain children have a direct supervision method of supervising kids. Mr. Utter stated he did not know exactly where the standards are now with that and they fear a tremendous liability for Counties and Sheriffs’ if they utilize a camera to watch kids without a staff ratio similar to what DJJ has.
Lt. Owens would like to comment. 20.08 speaks to the direct supervision issue and provides that no youth shall be housed in a direct supervision unit unless approved by the Sheriff. We do have that included in the Chapter 20 standards. The Subcommittee did not bring up for vote only one mechanism for supervision.
Sheriff Dean advised the group that Marion County had the first juvenile unit in the State. He asked Chief Wilder to come forward and explain. Sheriff Dean also stated that we have the JJIS system and it does not hinder us. Chief Wilder confirmed that we do have cameras, but do not have tasers and pepper spray in the unit, but they are accessible to the officer but not on them. Chief Wilder advised that we operate under the umbrella of DJJ. He stated that criteria was put in place in the very beginning and they have operating under this model and been very successful with it.
Sheriff Dean stated he wanted everyone to understand that this is not theoretical; we have actually deployed some of this. Lt. Owens stated he was through and that Chief Wilder to continue with his presentation.
Chief Wilder stated that in the packet, there should be a letter which is a memorandum that he sent to Isaiah Dennard of the FSA after receiving a letter from Secretary Wansley Walters from DJJ. He stated that he went over and sat down with DJJ to try to massage the Subcommittee’s finalization draft to the Committee to consider some negotiated alternative language to the initial document. Chief Wilder stated they used the backdrop as the current model. He stated there were three issues which came up and it’s interesting that the four letters that they received from DJJ, Southern Poverty Law Center, Disability Rights and the Florida Association of Counties all touched on these same three issues. The first one is the carrying of chemical or electronic weapons by the primary juvenile officers. The second one was, while they did not specifically state it in the letter, there was some discussion in the meeting, the video recording of the juveniles in the facility. It is not just to protect the juveniles but to protect the officers as well. Marion County has actually encountered that in several escapes and they helped us in understanding the circumstances on how the juveniles got out. The third issue is the issue is not providing reports electronically to DJJ. We all know we are working in different arenas to get away from siloing information. He stated we’re trying to get it under one umbrella so the information can be tracked around the State. JJIS already provides that. With that in mind, we came up with some alternative language.
Specifically, in Chapter 20.02, the use of force, j and k, discuss agency approved chemical weapons may be worn by certified corrections officers and agency approved electronic weapons may be worn by certified corrections officers. We discussed striking those from the proposed draft to the Committee and replacing it with agency approved chemical and electronic weapons may only be worn in the juvenile facility by certified officers when requested to respond to the facility during exigent circumstances that cannot be controlled by existing juvenile corrections officers.
Sheriff Dean asked Chief Wilder to explain again his replacement language which includes the idea that one could have non-certified juvenile officers in the facility, to which he responded yes. If certified officers were in the facility for juveniles, they could go get their chemical and electronic weapons. Chief Wilder said it could be put that way, but the officer cannot carry it as a primary. Sheriff Dean stated it was not just the ones who were responding, but if you were certified, an officer could go get it in the control room or locked safe. He said he believed there was enough room in this definition to have it in a lock box so that if someone had to respond, as long as it was not carried by a primary officer, whether sworn or not. Chief Wilder stated that in Marion County these items are kept in the main facility and if someone has to respond, they bring it with them. Chief Wilder stated he was not aware of anything weapons kept in the control room.
The second would be O. Currently the standard reads that each facility may have comprehensive electronic video recording devices to ensure external and internal security of the facility. We amended that language to read that “each juvenile detention facility will maintain a comprehensive video recording device. This device will enhance the internal and external security of the facility, as well as the safety of youth and officers. All recordings shall be maintained for no less than 30 days.” This is just some language that we came up with in the discussions with DJJ. The 30 days was made a part of this, which is a part of DJJ’s policy. Chief Wilder also stated that having that recording protects the officers and the juveniles.
The last thing was 20.05 which is case record management. “Records shall be maintained on each youth. A daily reporting system will be maintained by the facility to track all youths being detained, including all youths’ current case status. Such reports shall be made available to DJJ.” We amended that language to read A) A daily reporting system will be maintained by the facility and include information relating to the admission, release and current status of all youth in the facility. This information will be entered into DJJ’s JJIS system daily.”
Just to recap, all four letters the Committee received, Chief Wilder stated he was surprised because all of them seemed to funnel to these issues and he believes it would behoove us to modify some of the language, if not exactly like this, then close to it to get everybody on board from the beginning.
Sheriff Dean stated that before Chief Wilder steps down, he wanted to open it up to the Committee for any questions or comments they may have of him or Lt. Owens. Sheriff Peryam stated that the only concern that he has that he believes we have to watch out for, and although he does not disagree with anything that has been said so far, is that we have to watch out for the smaller counties. He stated we should not put any mandates on them which would have an economic impact, Sheriff Peryam stated that Marion County is a rather large Sheriff’s Office and for them to be able to accomplish the things they are is good, but we have to consider some of the smaller counties who have a tough time running the jails, let alone putting in camera systems and other things. Marion and Monroe don’t have a problem; and some of the larger counties like Broward and Dade, Jacksonville might not have an issue. But we need to make sure that we don’t make any mandates that will have an economic impact, especially on the smaller counties.
Commissioner Johnson stated he would echo those same sentiments. Also, regarding the Florida Association of Counties, they only took a stance on one item and not JJIS and not other issues. Regarding JJIS are there no other systems that are out there that can be utilized that can communicate back and forth without saying one has to use a certain information system. Chief Wilder stated that he was not aware of any. He also stated that either way one chooses to go, there is going to have to be some expense in getting the two different systems to talk. Ultimately, the idea is to get it into JJIS so that the information is available state-wide. In order to get it from A to B, there is going to be some costs. Otherwise, someone is going to have to manually put two things into two different systems. Either way someone is going to have to do the work.
Commissioner Johnson stated that he was not aware if everyone uses the same system or software, which Chief Wilder advised they did not. Commissioner Johnson asked how they were going to catalog all that information. Chief Wilder advised that it is probably handed to them in a document. The records are brought from our jail. They are leaps and bounds ahead on the juvenile side than we are on the adult side.
Commissioner Johnson asked about chemical weapons. Chief Wilder stated that they are worn by the adult officers on the adult side of the facility. If they respond to assist, they would be allowed to wear them and it’s a tool used to control the situation, but the actual juvenile officers do not wear them. Commissioner Johnson asked that in that regard. He stated he is trying to understand because he has heard that this terminology which says that this provides safety for the juveniles and for the detention officers. He stated he was trying to understand how it was safer to fight with a juvenile than it is to spray them and be done with the situation. Chief Wilder stated that was a good point and there is probably and argument on either side of the table for that. Commissioner Johnson stated he looks it from the standpoint of the detention personnel. He stated that he is sure that in DJJ; all of us are different sizes and maybe able to control a certain individual where as another officer, may be a female, may not be able to defend herself. Possibly even a smaller man. Chief Wilder stated that be believed there was a thought that if an officer is carrying pepper spray the officer may not exercise the verbal skills that have been learned and just resort to the pepper spray immediately. The thought is if it’s immediately available to the officer, then they have to use their verbal skills and those things in PAR. To deal with youth, it’s a whole different area.
Commissioner Johnson stated that he is trying to thoroughly understand this because he is trying to put himself in the situation. With that, the certified deputies, they go through what kind of training to carry weapons. Chief Wilder advised they go through a minimum of 40 hours of firearms training and with chemicals, 16 hours. Commissioner Johnson said that his understanding is that it does provide for increasing levels and it starts with verbal skills. If one is trained in that, why would the thought be the officer would jump to that? Officers are trained to carry guns and if one pull someone over for speeding, but the thought is not that the officer is going to pull the gun on someone for speeding. Chief Wilder stated there are advocacy groups who do not feel the same way and they are trying to understand that and work with them to develop language. Commissioner Johnson stated that we are looking for the safety of the individuals who are going to be in that facility and the personnel who are going to be operating that facility. He is looking at what provides for that greater safety. Is that someone hanging on for dear life while someone is engaged in a fight and the officer waits for someone to run over from another facility? Is that best. Chief Wilder stated the only response he has that sways it in their favor is that they have had a model in place since November of last year. Those tools have not been accessible to our officers except for those responding and it has worked. So in going forward, if it’s working now, it should continue to work. This is a living, breathing document and if there are some examples at a later time, it can be readdressed; he would suggest it be done. However, right now, the model they have is working.
Commissioner Johnson wanted to ask another question. Since Marion had the first model, like the first charter school. You were the first ones to be able to do this, and there are a lot of additional standards for that first charter school than is required for fear they were not going to operate or be successful. He stated that his assumption would be that the same thing occurred to Marion County and forced them to do more than what’s required and to some degree that probably occurred. He stated that since those items are in place, Marion would not know any different because they have never had the opportunity to experience the other. For the benefit of everyone, he stated he is coming at this from the experience of being an administrator in a charter school when they were not popular, especially to public school boards who were losing money and control and wanted input on every local charter school, as many requirements as they possibly could, mainly as a roadblock, not as a proven best practice. Commissioner Johnson stated he is trying to look at these items as what is truly good for anyone wanting to run one of these facilities, what is someone else’s bureaucracy that they have grown into. What is truly a best practice? What is the documentation that proves this is, indeed a best practice and not just an assumption? Assumptions are never good to operate on, however, sometimes we do that and we do so by observation. Observation is a pretty inaccurate tool to make decisions many times. Chief Wilder stated we have to start somewhere and if we’re in such a position and one of these kids gets hurt by the use of pepper spray which was unjustified or by a taser, then we are going to be criticized. If we start out a certain way and see that it’s working, nothing says we can’t change it later if it is warranted.
Sheriff Dean thanked the Chief for his response and then called for a five minute break.
After the break, Sheriff Dean called the meeting back to order and asked for those who wished to speak could now do so and opened the floor to those who wished to come and address the committee.
Mr. Utter from the Southern Poverty Law Center. He stated their position on the issues which have been discussed are stated in the letter and they are very clear on that. He just wanted to point out the argument about small counties not being able to afford this. He stated he checked with DJJ on this. There is not a single small county and did not know how they would define it, that pays for detention. There are not going to be any counties rushing to take over detention because they would be incurring a cost that they currently don’t have right now. That is not an issue that this Committee should be concerned about. Sheriff Dean stated that to be clear Mr. Utter’s feeling is that small counties won’t do it because of costs. Mr. Utter stated that right now they are classified as fiscally constrained and the State pays for all of their detention and that’s something the Committee would not have to worry about.
Mr. White, an attorney at Disability Rights Florida approached the podium. He thanked the Committee for their time and consideration of the written comments. Mr. White stated he wanted to drive home a couple of different points from the letter. First and foremost, he wanted to echo the thoughts of Chief Wilder and the Department of Juvenile Justice in regards to the three issues. He stated that he agreed with the analysis. Mr. White stated that if you look at all the different correspondence which was provided to the Committee, those three points were echoed in all of the different correspondence. He stated that he believed they are points that need ample consideration by this Committee.
Secondly, he stated he would encourage the Committee to adopt the clinical language which has been provided. He stated they think it’s important to give a more meaningful definition for officers who are in the juvenile detention environment for them to look for rather than giving them statutory language. He stated they appreciate the statutory language that Mr. Bedson offered through the Subcommittee and feel that it is valuable language that needs to be there because it gives that legal baseline for everyone to understand. In addition, he strongly encourages the addition of the clinical language.
Mr. White stated that the one other point that he would like to address is that they have also included that youths under the age of 10 are also classified as Special Needs, whether they have a developmental disability, whether they have autism or a mental health disability. Mostly, just because of the age of the child, this warrants additional consideration and wanted to direct the Committee’s attention to that as well.
Commissioner Johnson clarified the age of ten because the document states the age of 9. Mr. White apologized for the mistake. He stated they went back and forth on the exact age. It is under the age of 9.
Thirdly, he wanted to stress the difference between youths and adults and the importance. He stated that Lt. Owens and the Subcommittee took very close consideration of in this process and developed Chapter 20 and the Appendix. It is worthy, not only to consider the difference between youths and adults, but also pre-adjudicated youths. What they are talking about are children who are being charged but not convicted at the time they are being held. That is a big difference that needs to be considered as the Committee continues to work on these standards as we define what we should be doing and what approaches we should be taking. As you look back at the three things Chief Wilder brought to your attention this morning and our letter, Mr. White stated he hoped they would consider not just special needs, but also youths had pre-adjudicated youths.
Sheriff Dean asked if anyone else wanted to speak. Mr. Bedson came to the podium. He stated he would like to extend his appreciation to Sheriff Dean for the outstanding job he and his staff had done at the pre-adjudicated county operated center. It has been not only a delight to work with you all, but an education for DJJ’s staff. Chief Wilder and Major Laxton and all the folks over there have been easy to work with. He believes they have learned from each other and thinks it has been a benefit to the community and that goes to his people.
Mr. Bedson stated he wanted to point out a few things and that was to reiterate things that Secretary Walters put in writing. He stated he would not repeat all the good things Chief Wilder said, but he would certainly agree with all of those things he said. The JJIS system, to address one of the concerns the Commissioner had, is a state-wide system which gathers a prolific amount of information about individual kids. As any individual in our State, we have a very migratory population from Key West to Pensacola. The more information we have on these kids, the better off we are to deal with those kids. As you so aptly said, Sheriff, we will get those kids back in some fashion from a county operated center. The more information we have embedded in our system, the better we can meet those kids’ needs. Mr. Bedson stated the JJIS system is free and they will provide any training, free. From your experience, it is not that cumbersome. We realize there is a manpower issue to it, but believes it is a manpower issue that has some value to it. We would encourage you to adopt the JJIS system. Not only does it give us the information about kids that we need, but as a State agency, and especially as we are going into legislative session in January, we will be asked again for a lot of data from the legislature so they can make decisions about budget. DJJ will also be asked by the Governor’s office. To that systemically is better for all of us because it take into consideration each county, as well as the state-wide system, how we make those budgetary decisions. The other is from a criminogenic point of view. The more data we have, the better we can make decisions that help impact communities, as well. Every community is different. Without a systemic look at that information, it is hard to make decisions about a juvenile justice system. We include the county wide system in that. We think that if we can imbed that data, it helps us do that. On the weapons issue, Mr. Bedson stated that he would once again reiterate what Chief Wilder said, and it represented what the DJJ believes. One other thing he would like to point out in the very first paragraph in terms of the committee. He stated he was happy to serve on that and was grateful they allowed him a seat on the subcommittee. Mr. Bedson stated that in there, and it’s in bold letters in that chapter, “thereby signaling that the children in the juvenile justice system are fundamentally different than adults.” Keeping that in mind, we need to do things a little different as well as raise the bars.
Sheriff Dean asked Mr. Bedson if he would be okay on this issue of the weapons if they were accessible to certified officers. Mr. Bedson replied that the DJJ would agree with that and endorse it, with the caveats that Chief Wilder put in there. He believes that those are tools that deputies are capable of having and DJJ has no desire to take those tools away. It’s the operationalization of those tools where they have a concern. Sheriff Dean stated that if those items are in the control center and the juveniles could not access them, and certified officers were in there and needed to obtain them from whatever storage is in that control room and is secure, that they were all right with that. Mr. Bedson stated that the Department acknowledges that these are tools Sheriffs are empowered to have and the deputies should have them. If we raise the bar, for a number of reasons, it is more valuable to all of us.
Commissioner Johnson had a question in reference to the video system. Mr. Bedson stated that in reference to that they fully endorse the representation that Chief Wilder put together. He stated they fully understand Sheriff Peryam’s point of the economic impact, but they also acknowledge the fact that it protects the officers. 99 times out of 100, the officers do the right things. However, there are accusations. Kids love to make accusations for some reason, and so do adults. The video often affirms the good job the staff is doing.
Commissioner Johnson asked if this is a requirement of state law that they provide this in your facilities. Mr. Bedson stated they adopted the rule to have videos and have them in all the centers. Mr. Bedson stated they see it as advantageous. He also said they understand the perspective and understand Sheriff Peryam’s perspective, but they think it’s a tool that has value for us and Sheriff Dean has seen that has value and protection for their staff. Commissioner Johnson stated that in one of the letters, he was trouble by a word “comprehensive recording system” and wanted to know what that meant. Mr. Bedson stated he did not know what comprehensive meant in reference to the videos, but if one looks at the recording systems, be it DOC or DJJ, it covers as many vantage points as possible. There is no way to cover every vantage point as possible. He stated that as long as one has a recording system that is reasonable and covers areas that the administration says are appropriate, that is the definition of comprehensive. Commissioner Johnson asked Mr. Bedson if he knew how much it costs and Mr. Bedson replied it depends on the amount of cameras placed in the facility. Chief Wilder stated we have 25 cameras.
Sheriff Dean asked if anyone else wished to comment. Director Holderfield of the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office came to the podium. Director Holderfield stated he wanted to speak specifically to Chapter 20.02, use of force, items I through L. He stated he had a long conversation with Sheriff Rutherford. He commended Sheriff Dean for the leadership he has shown the State and we know the system works. He stated they have concerns over restricting the use of electronic and chemical weapons by our certified officers and their ability to maintain stability, order, and decorum and the ability to respond to emergencies when necessary. He stated they realize they are talking about juveniles and currently process all juveniles in the main jail facility and have officers who have full duty gear and are able to respond to emergencies. He stated they do not have many incidents and does not know if it would be practical to have weapons stored in a different location and require either patrol or correctional professionals to respond back to a central facility to gather those necessary tools to respond. Mr. Holderfield appealed to the Committee to just leave the language. He understands that several great points have been made concerning liability; however at the end of the day, the Sheriff should make the call. The model used by Marion County works and that’s wonderful, but that model may not necessarily work in other counties. He would appeal to the Committee to consider the current proposals which is in the bigger package versus the amendments.
Commissioner Johnson asked Director Holderfield if this was the only concern they had. He replied that it was. They had reviewed the documents thoroughly. Sheriff Dean stated that when he asked Mr. Bedson about responding to accessibility, does Duval County plan to have any kind of control room where they are watching the juveniles? Is that how they are going to do this or will it be direct supervision. Director Holderfield stated that may be exactly what they do if they even decide to get into this particular program. Their biggest problem is they do not have the facility and do not want to move it out to the prison farm which is 25 miles from downtown, so they are looking at various properties. If they would build or construct, they would modify and there were be a central control area. Sheriff Dean asked if it would be fair to say that they are okay with the camera system and JJIS. Director Holderfield stated there are some personnel and funding issues and they could work around that. He stated they already use cameras in their facilities. As the previous speaker that pointed out, it’s not the cameras that are the expense, it’s the servers and other things that go down that the IT department say they cannot fix.
Commission Johnson asked Director Holderfield that since they already have cameras in the facility, do they record and save every 30 days, to which he replied they do. He stated one of the servers recently went down and they were only able to capture 28 days. They did not feel okay with and got those systems back up. These cameras are a priority. Obviously the camera system is important on both sides of the aisle.
Sheriff Peryam stated it was his understanding that he was okay with not carrying in any of the chemical or electronic devices, but to store it in the facility. Director Holderfield disagreed and apologized if he misspoke. He stated they agreed that the certified, trained law enforcement personnel who have received instruction and certification on those items should not have to secure them in a different location. These are tools that are approved by the Sheriff to go into the various facilities and we feel that they should have them on their person. Sheriff Peryam asked if the officers carry these items on their person now and Director Holderfield advised they did.
Sheriff Dean stated that he had one other question. He asked that Florida Model Jail Standards was amended to allow electronic weapons several years ago and prior to that they were not allowed which Director Holderfield confirmed.
Public Defender Bill Miller came to the podium. He stated he wanted to speak mainly to the video cameras and address a comment the Commissioner made briefly. He stated he has been coming to this jail for 26 years and has seen an evolution. When he first came to the jail he cannot say that it operated as efficiently and as well as it does now. He stated he does not think it’s an operation of adopting bureaucratic standards, but it is an involvement of the Sheriff and the fine work of the people who are seated in this room. Mr. Miller stated that along those lines, there also has been an evolution of the use of video recording as a public defender. He stated quite candidly that as a public defender there is a large part of him that wishes they did not have videos because he would win a lot more cases. Mr. Miller advised the vast majority of videos actually convict his clients. It’s the first thing he looks for. The cost of video recording has gone down dramatically. When there is a complaint about the lawyers in his office, the first thing he does is pull the tape from the courtroom and find out most of the time the complaint was not valid. It protects everyone from the children to law enforcement and of all the things that are being considered, and he would urge the adoption of all three, to him the videotaping is probably the easiest decision to make.
Mike Slagel who works in the Department of Developmental Training for the Department of Juvenile Justice and is a Training Coordinator for the entire State came to the podium. He stated one of their concerns is the use of force. He stated that we are in a tough position when the sheriffs’ offices were talking about taking over the detention center. Marion County sent four officers to us to become certified as PAR trainers, which is the DJJ model of use of force. Mr. Slagel stated he is also a FDLE Defensive Tactics instructor and is a master instructor for PAR. He stated he was the lucky one who trained the four officers, who did an outstanding job. He advised it sounds easy to do, but when someone has the philosophy ingrained in them and now you have to teach them a different philosophy, which deal with 95% physical intervention. 90% is verbal and interpersonal skills, crisis intervention, communicating and dealing with the youth. He stated he went through the adult corrections academy and he had 8 hours of training in dealing with youthful offenders, which he did not believe was sufficient when talking about youthful offenders. Mr. Slagel stated that while sitting in the back of the room, it was very impressive and he appreciated Chief Wilder stating that this model is working for us and the model he’s talking about is protective action response and the four deputies he’s talking about came back and trained everyone here who is going to be dealing with youthful offenders in PAR. We have worked very hard in making that program extremely professional. It’s not just physical intervention with the youth, it’s communicating. The FDLE defensive tactics is about verbal intervention. He said the reason we are here is because in 2006 there was legislation that stated if you deal with youth, you will be PAR trained. It was nice to hear Mr. Bedson say that DJJ really likes that model. When this act came into place in 2006, the DJJ had to travel to 18 different agencies and train over 400 officers because it was now law. If that Sheriff’s Office wanted to keep their JAC or youthful offender program running, by legislation was by getting those deputies trained in PAR. This is a high liability area, so it is very important that the decision we make now and the decision of the Committee has to watch how detailed it gets because it affects the entire State. By reading Chapter 20, it talks a lot about if you’re FDLE trained or DJJ trained everyone is good to go with blended staff. In that case, you now have people working with the juveniles who are trained in two different methods. Use of force is a high liability area and it’s a concern. Speaking on behalf of DJJ, I like training as many deputies as I can, because it is very important.
Commissioner Johnson had a question for Mr. Slagel about how many hours of training DJJ provides. Mr. Slagel stated that when DJJ hires someone off the street and they are not certified in anything, they were not involved at the youth at all and used to take at least two months to go to an academy. We have a first phase training once they are hired by a facility. In their first phase training, they will get the first 40 hours of PAR with a total of 120 hours of training. They are never allowed to be around the juveniles by themselves; they have to be with a certified staff member until they go to the academy and through their training.
Mr. Gibney from Pinellas County. He stated he was involved in the creation of the FMJS going back to 1996 and he finds it ironic that today we are talking about Tasers and pepper spray. He stated that 13 years ago in this county, is where we ended up talking about jails using these items. With that said, one of the points he wanted to make is that it seems illogical that if one takes any public school around the State or across the country, SRO’s have Tasers and pepper spray around kids who have not been alleged to have committed any crime and they are allowed to have them. Some of the people who are opposed to certified staff having them inside a juvenile detention facility; they bring up studies which were done across the country. He stated he can think of three: Texas, Ohio and Michigan. In going through those studies, one thing stuck out as blatant which was the staff who were utilizing these items weren’t trained for any significant period of time. In the State of Florida, we use the force matrix which is similar is what is going to be used with a youth. There is a threat assessment that is done. The thought that by allowing certified staff to carry these Tasers and pepper spray inside the facility; to assume that automatically means that a kid is going to be sprayed or tased is barbaric and ludicrous. There is a lot of training that goes into certified staff members. To say that we are going to take away the tools from the staff that we have trained and even to put it in the control room, the reason it is on their person is that it is readily accessible if need be. When we first worked on the legislation for FMJS it was to allow the Sheriffs to make the determination on many of the operational aspects of the jail facility. Mr. Gibney stated that he would offer the same thing would hold true for juveniles. Obviously, as a constitutional officer, you are bound to your constituents and if they do not approve of the way you are running your facility, you are going to know. We are entrusted to serve and protect. The fact that these are to be allowed, the Sheriff will make that ultimate determination as to whether they want that in their facility and the liability issues. To turn around and tie their hands at this point, he is not sure we are headed in the right direction. The very same arguments are being made today in reference to juveniles as they were 13 years ago in regards to adults. There is an expectation of professionalism and a culture within the Sheriff’s Office and keep in mind that not every agency is going to be able to run a detention facility because they are going to have to meet all the requirements. There will be a culture already in that agency as to how they are going to conduct themselves. There is going to be additional training in regards to juveniles, but they have already been trained in how to use these weapons. The Committee would be remiss in taking these items away from them. As far as the safety of the staff, these are items which are designed to be carried and not be housed like a shotgun. This is something they need right away. With those items, they serve as a deterrent way more than anything else because when they see them, now the officer has more attention. It’s an immediate response that we need to have that. It’s in case of those folks who are certified staff because they have been given this training in regards to these weapons.
Commissioner Johnson asked if Mr. Gibney had concerns in reference to the other items. Mr. Gibney stated that he did not. The biggest concern was the Tasers and the pepper spray; the accessibility of those items to certified staff. As far as the monitoring, he could see the cost concern to some agencies.
Commissioner Johnson asked that as far as the electronic and chemical agents, that should be the decision of the particular Sheriff. Mr. Gibney stated the Sheriff is in the best position to make that determination. He knows how much training his staff already has and can decide if this is something he wants to provide to his staff. Ultimately, at the end of the day, it needs to be the decision of the Sheriff.
Major Allen from Polk County. He stated there seem to be three hot topics: intermediate weapons, recording and JJIS. Like Chief Wilder, we have language which we would like you to consider. Agency approved electronic weapons may be accessible to certified officers when required to respond during exigent circumstances when the level of force is least likely to cause injury to staff and youth. Being accessible to them and one feels you can meet that definition, whether it is carried on the person or access in the control. The bottom line is that we have to keep the youth away from adults. If we do that, we keep them sight and sound separated. If I have to rely on someone to come for me, they have to go through multiple layers of security to get there. It may not be in a timely manner. As some have said that the weapon is on the person they can immediately respond. However, if it is not, it should be in the control room of the building so that fellow officers can respond. Marion does have a model here but that may be two or three staff to six youth. Polk County has at least 40 juveniles who are direct filed or held over and are looking at taking another 50 from the detention center. There are going to 100 youth that they are going to responsible for. With limited staff we don’t want to handicap them and keep them from responding. There may be the possibility of physical contact which increases the likelihood of a juvenile being injured.
Sheriff Dean stated that Major Allen is suggesting the change to 20.02 J. He asked for that language again. Agency approved electronic weapons may be accessible to certified officers when required to respond during exigent circumstances when the level of force is least likely to cause injury to staff and youth. Sheriff Dean asked if Major Allen could provide that to staff. Sheriff Dean also asked Major Allen if the officers wear Tasers. He stated they do not, but have accessibility to electronic devices. Inherent in those electronic devices are limitations to them. As to the Electronic Shield, we are not to use on anyone under 80 pounds, adult or juvenile. Although not written in these standards there are policies and procedures that exist. We propose that would be a better alternative.
Sheriff Peryam asked Major Allen if his proposed standard read the same as the FMJS standard. Major Allen stated this was derived from what was originally proposed and then what was proposed by Chief Wilder and does not believe it was based on the FMJS standard.
Major Allen stated the second issue is about recording versus monitoring. He stated that cameras are important in jails because officers can’t be everywhere at once. We are saying that when someone says cameras prevent things from happening that is not true. People prevent things from happening. Having people in places to make sure things don’t happen. In an escape from the facility, I can go back and watch the escape and away they go. If I have someone standing out there, that’s not going to happen. If we spend money on monitoring devices and monitor what’s going on, we currently have that in our jail. There are cameras everywhere. A person in a control room can sit there and see everything that is going on. If there’s a problem, the person can get on the radio and call someone who can respond. Money is better spent on personnel than recording cameras, because cameras tell you after the fact. I can prevent it with the right personnel I need there and ensuring they have the professionalism and training to watch those individuals. There is a lot of training between a person who works as a juvenile detention officer and the standard detention deputy. At our agency, we don’t allow any employee to work with a person who is in custody unless they are certified by the State.
As far as the JJIS system, Polk County does not have an issue with it. They understand the importance of getting some historical information from the juveniles. When this process begins, there may be some juveniles we have never seen before and we want to be able to have as much information as possible so we have an idea of what we’re dealing with. There are some counties who feel they may not have the resources to do and he suggests that maybe the information can be provided to DJJ. We choose to put the information in JJIS. If another county wishes to give the information to JJIS, then the can do so.
Commissioner Johnson asked about JJIS and some of the arguments in regards to seeing past history to help deal with the individuals. Major Allen stated that the juvenile system is totally separate unless they have been waived over. If they have been waived over they would be in the jail and we could look them up in our system. The youth that we will be getting are different than what we’ve had before as they are pre-adjudicated youth. They have not currently been housed in our facility. If they had been, they would have been waived or direct filed. For us to know anything about them than maybe calling someone at DJJ we will have access to that information and we can look it up. Unfortunately for those youths who have been in multiple times, we can look that up.
Commissioner Johnson stated that part of that may be due to the transient society and that information can be accessed in JJIS. Major Allen stated they can tell where they’ve been, where they have been incarcerated and some of the behaviors they have exhibited. If we found that they were in Hillsborough we can call them and ask them about history as information is vital when dealing with youth.
Ms. White came to the podium. She stated the question was asked what FMJS says about pepper spray. She stated it was on page 48 of this handout. It says that chemical agents, oc spray or any other such chemical agents are authorized to be carried inside the detention facility by a certified corrections officer trained in its use, only if authorized by policy and procedures, or directives from the facility. She stated there is a little more information. Ms. White stated that electronic weapons are authorized to be used inside the detention facility by certified officers trained in its use, only if authorized by policy and procedures or directives of the facility. If comes down to it’s allowed by the standards, but it has to be authorized by the jail administrator or Sheriff. When we started allowing this, the language came into being and was on the committee when the language was added. It does not require that anyone use it or carry it on their person, but it does allow for the Sheriff or Jail administrator to make that determination and they are the ones who are most knowledgeable about the training that has been required and procedures for use. All of the staff has received use of force training on an annual as most facilities do and if you are accredited, you have to. Ms. White stated they don’t tase or spray people on a daily basis in our adult facility and there is no expectation that it would be any different from a youth detention center. She stated the stance of the Escambia County Sheriff’s Office it should be left up to the Sheriff.
Ms. White also stated that as it comes to the electronic video system, she would say that she needs to strike the word comprehensive and does not know they would have a problem with taping or maybe the requirement that it be recorded might be an issue. She stated they would not have an objection to that because they have the cameras in the adult facility.
Ms. White advised that when it comes to the JJIS, she is in total agreement that it is a great idea to have the information available and should they choose to have a juvenile detention facility. She stated the only objection would be to mandating that we would have to enter the data into that system. If we provide them with the information that they request on a daily basis, we could provide it in an electronic format that they could input into their system. She stated it should not be required that the agencies should enter that data.
Ms. White stated she had one more topic that had not yet been addressed. Ms. White advised that there are a lot of agencies out there which are considering taking over an existing facility being run by DJJ. There are some space requirements in FMJS that may not be met by these existing facilities. She felt there needs to be an exception added to the standards which allows Sheriffs’ and counties who take over operational youth detention centers currently being administered by DJJ that they exempt from meeting those space requirements until they make modifications or renovations or build a new facility.
Sheriff Dean asked Ms. White if she was asking about the square footage requirement. She stated there already was an exemption on jail facilities which were built before 1996, so this would just be another exemption for youth detention centers. Sheriff Dean asked if she was proposing if an agency took over a facility already operated by DJJ, which she confirmed. Sheriff Dean asked if we know that these buildings do not comply. Ms. White stated that she does not know for sure, but has been provided some information that would lead her to believe this may be true. Ms. White stated they likelihood is they are going to be smaller than most adults. Sheriff Dean stated that since this is the last meeting before October 1, if an agency wanted to take over a facility after October 1, they would have to be inspected and then pass the inspection and then start October 1. There is no time to come back if they could not meet the inspection. He asked if there was a way to handle this that doesn’t just waive all the rules for an existing facility and buys time to come back next year and we discuss this. Ms. White stated there is already an exemption that allows for those jails built before 1996 that they did not have to comply with those space requirements. Sheriff Dean asked if it would be alright to limiting the language rather than blanket exceptions. In so far as it is allowed for the space requirement in the dayroom, would it be possible it narrow it down to what we’re talking about. Ms. White stated the housing areas would be included. She stated the jails are overcrowded and they do not meet that standard any way. Sheriff Dean asked if she had specific language in which standard she would wish to modify. Ms. White stated the language would be, “Sheriffs and/or counties who take over youth detention centers currently administered by DJJ are exempt from meeting FMJS housing space requirements until modifications, renovations or a new building is constructed.” Sheriff Dean asked Ms. White that while we were waiting for the next speakers, for her to get with Lt. Owens on this language and refine that and refer to a standard. Then get back to the Committee again and show us exactly what the standard would be.
Mr. Paul Adee from Hillsborough County came to the podium. The three topics that have been discussed this morning, he would like to address each one of them individually. He stated the amount of training that staff receives whether it’s PAR or FDLE Use of Force. He heard his esteemed colleague from DJJ say their academy is 120 hours. The basic correctional academy is 535 hours. 112 hours of those are specifically set aside for interpersonal skills. In Hillsborough we have another 160 hours in which they have to be trained and then a 10 week field training program for 1115 hours of training. The majority of training is designed around interpersonal skills because that’s how we effectively interact with the inmates whether it is the adults or juveniles. Over 1000 hours is geared towards that interpersonal interaction. Hillsborough has operated the juvenile assessment center for over 15 years. We have carried pepper spray ever since it was allowed. He stated he did not recall one incident in our juvenile assessment center where we have sprayed a youth at all. That is over a span of 15 years.
Sheriff Dean stated that before we move on, he asked Mr. Adee if he was proposing that the carrying of electronic and chemical weapons on the person of a certified officer in with the juvenile be allowed. Mr. Adee agreed. He advised that in Hillsborough County that the staff that has been trained and barring implications and financial restraints all employees would carry an electronic weapon. He stated they have chosen certain certified staff to carry Tasers. All of the sworn staff carries foam.
Mr. Adee stated that as far as video recording, Hillsborough County is fortunate. They have video recorders and equipment on-site. However, he believes it is fundamentally wrong that the Sheriffs install and operate a system such as that which ties their hands financially. For each one of the cameras, it costs $2500 per camera counting the infrastructure they have to install. That’s hard drive, that’s wiring, that’s recorders, all of which has to be installed for the cameras. He stated he heard DJJ stated they have 60 cameras on the low end and over 120 on the high end which is a substantial cost if an agency is mandated to record.
Mr. Adee stated that as far as the information sharing system, every agency around the State has a database of information that they maintain. This information is already available to the DJJ if they choose to seek it out. It’s a mandate that we have to hire a person or train a person. This position is data entry, which is people and that’s where the biggest expense. That’s a recurring expense that’s something is going to have to continue to be done throughout the lifetime of the agency. Since the information is already there, I don’t believe we should enter that information.
Sheriff Peryam asked Mr. Adee how the information is shared now. Mr. Adee stated they have the information available to them now. If they choose to seek it out, we will provide it to them. The reporting mechanism might not be the same and the formatting might not be the same as what their information calls for, but the information is all there.
Mr. Utter came to the podium. He stated that on the JJIS system, Mr. Bedson made a point that their data system is far advanced than the DOC. Working with the Tax Watch group in Tallahassee on the DOC’s recidivism rate and the ability of the DOC to use better programs so that we have less crime, we are unable to get an accurate picture of recidivism from the DOC database. That is because DOC only has data on the prisoner and the reason they are there. Mr. Utter made that statement because with the DJJ system, that is not the case. As Florida moves forward and taxpayers demand accountability and make sure we are spending our money, the ability to analyze data and the ability to see what’s working is absolutely critical. By fighting this JJIS now, the Sheriffs are making a mistake moving forward. This is the way things are going. The way to capture data, the way the systems speak to each other; the ability if tax payers to tell if we are spending our money wisely and for you all to start entering this data at this time, he did not think it was a full time person, it’s just training and having someone do it daily. Mr. Utter stated he did not think it was burdensome; it just makes sense from a fiscal responsibility standpoint.
The other point he would like to make is about the chemical weapons and tasers. He stated he has heard people talk about the history and how long Sheriffs have been running jails in Florida safely and protecting the public. DJJ has been involved in the same thing with juveniles. There is a better way and their way works. Mr. Utter said he would encourage the Committee to look at the way DJJ does this and there is no need to reinvent the wheel.
Bernard Johns from Seminole County Sheriff’s Office came to the podium. He stated they are currently renovating the old DJJ facility which closed June 30. There is a significant cost for taking a facility built in 1972 and bringing it up to modern day standards. Mr. Johns stated that if the State had not decided to close this facility, kids would still be housed in there right now and no one would be complaining about it. It is not just acceptance, but economics of having really old buildings. Economics is the point. We have to pay for everything we do with the facility. As far as the cameras are concerned, we are working on that now. We figure $1500 a camera because of the hardened cell walls and $3500 a camera for the outside cameras depending on how they are mounted. They obtained an outside estimate on putting cameras in the building and the contractor came back with an amount of $79,000 to install the cameras, so this is very significant.
Sheriff Dean asked if they had been planning on putting cameras in the building, to which Mr. Johns replied they were. How many cameras they install depends on the amount of the cost and therefore, how many they can afford to do. He stated that he believes cameras are a great way to augment security, but they do not replace hands on security.
Commissioner Johnson had a question for Mr. Johns on whether or not they intended to record or monitor. He stated they were planning to record and retain for a minimum of 30 days. It is a server based system they are looking at. The DVR systems, but they are $7000 per camera and if you install 40 cameras that becomes a large amount of money. Licensing fees also apply to every camera so they get you one way or another.
Mr. Johns stated that when Mr. Utter talks about direct supervision, he believes there is confusion in terms. He is talking about eyes on supervision of the juveniles and not just relying on the cameras as opposed to a direct supervision, open bay jail model. What he is advocating for direct supervision, he is stating that we need to actually see the kids and not look at a camera all night and not go check on the kids.
Mr. Johns stated that he has been using JJIS back when it first came around. He advised that when he worked Probation, it was essential and we used it every day. He also advised that DJJ is not advocating they use the entire system, just to enter when the juvenile comes in, when the juvenile leaves and the alerts and charges. The intent is to JJIS at least to give the minimum information and use the internal jail management system for everything else. MR. Johns stated he sees it from the probation side and it’s very important.
Sheriff Dean asked him how he felt about the weapons issue. Mr. Johns stated that at his facility they are not allowed to carry them inside. He stated that at the jail, the Tasers are locked down and a supervisor has to respond to retrieve the weapon. He stated they have to talk a lot before weapons are used. Mr. Johns advised that unless a kid just starts swinging, they have to talk a lot before they think about anything else.
In reference to blended staff, Mr. Johns stated Seminole County is the one who brought up this idea. He stated that what they want to do is have certified corrections officers supervising a handful of certified corrections officers and augment it by DJJ trained staff. It greatly offsets the costs of doing this. DJJ has been doing this 40 years and it has worked for them. Mr. Johns stated they have blended staff working right now and they have never had any problems.
Sheriff Dean stated the standards submitted by the committee permits blended staff. Mr. Johns stated he had one other issue he needed to address. Under 20.07, activities and programs, subparagraph c, it says education for youth shall be provided according to Florida Administrative Code and lists two administrative codes. Mr. Johns stated he looked them up to see what it says. He advised the second code, 6A-6.05281 requires 250 days of education for the youth, the same as in a DJJ facility. However, he was advised by the schools and Department of Education that because it is not a DJJ run facility, they are no eligible for FTE funding after 180 days. No one will pay for it. The School Board is dealing with a 25 million deficit and while they want to support them, they don’t know how they were going to do 180 days. He stated they do the education in the jails for free, but cannot afford to keep doing it. It is going to affect every Sheriff’s Office in the state because if they want to open a detention center, they are going to have to pay for the teachers for the second half of the school year.
Sheriff Dean asked Lt. Owens and members of the committee if they have a response to this. Lt. Owens stated he would agree they would consider augmenting that phrase to speak to that span of time. Mr. Johns had a suggestion. He stated “until FTE funding changes, that they provide 180 days. When the funding increases, they will provide the maximum amount that is fundable.” Sheriff Dean asked him to get with the Committee during the break and work out the language.
Commissioner Johnson had a question. He stated when they talk about the JJIS system; Seminole County does not enter all the information. Mr. Johns responded that DJJ is not asking all the information be entered. Parts of the system are designed for their policy and parts are universal to everyone. They are asking for specific information such as when the juvenile arrived, when did he leave, and any special alerts that indicates there is a high risk with the juvenile somehow. They need that information entered into the system so that if anyone else deals with that juvenile they have the complete history and alerts and the probation officer knows this juvenile has a suicide alert and that the juvenile needs mental health counseling. Everyone who screens that juvenile is going to see that information because it is going to pop up in red letters on the screen.
Commissioner Johnson stated he did not see that qualified in any of the letters anywhere and it sounds very broad. Mr. Johns stated DJJ does not need all the information; they just need some basic information. A proposal was made that they put in an additional tab for the Sheriff’s Offices so they just enter the information that is required. Commissioner Johnson asked what the response was and Mr. Johns advised they did not seem opposed to that. Commission Johnson stated that if they were to require JJIS then we should put language in that limits the amount of information to the essentials.
Sheriff Dean stated he believes that Chief Wilder’s submission has admission, release and current status. Mr. Johns stated that is all the information, to include special alerts. Sheriff Dean advised they are going to take this break soon and we’ll stop after the second lady.
Andrea Costello of Florida Institutional Legal Services came to the podium. She thanked the Committee for allowing her to address them. She stated one is just common sense, which is not something attorneys usually stand up and say. She stated she has heard several people from different sheriffs’ offices say they carry various chemical weapons and Tasers on their persons; some have it in juvenile facilities and never use it. Ms. Costello stated that common sense would state that if you don’t use it then you just don’t need it. She said some people said it, not everyone, and we can all have differing opinions. She just wanted to point out that kids are not with you all for very long and they remain in DJJ facilities in residential programs, sometimes for up to several years and those are the kids she represents who stay in those programs for a very long time. Ms. Costello advised that in those programs those, as DJJ stated, the PAR system is what is used by the officers in that program. There are no chemical agents, no Tasers. The officers are able to use whatever force is necessary in certain circumstances when it is necessary. Unfortunately those are a lot of cases that come before me when children are injured and we just don’t want to see that happen. She said the statistic before but wants to say it again. About 78% of the kids that come into contact with the juvenile justice system have a diagnosed mental illness. This is a different population of folks you are dealing with. The use of chemical agents and Tasers on children with a diagnosed mental illness stays with them for a long time. These are kids who have all kinds of issues going on in their life before hand: they have issues with education, with their family; some have been sexually abused or undergone child abuse. You all have them for a short period of time and have the ability to do some very creative work with them and reach them at a point in their life where you can really reach them and that is not something that a lot of people can say. Ms. Costello stated that as law enforcement personnel you have a place of respect in their lives and when kids come in and they come out, they want to go into the military or actually want to be police officers. Personally, I don’t understand that when I represent them sometimes but that’s what they want to do, so they have a lot of respect for you all in some way and I feel that you’re not really giving them the benefit of the doubt; you are mostly looking at them as criminals and as inmates. These are not hardened folks; these are still malleable and very easily influenced kids by you all. Going in, and using that force and teaching kids that’s the level of force we’re going to use against you and that’s what you are going to come in here and see, she believes that by using that type of psychological mindset, you are going to create the kind of folks you don’t want to see in the community. Ms. Costello stated she wanted to put that out there and realizes it’s not a very popular viewpoint. She stated that her office actually is engaged in litigation with DOC about the use of chemical agents in particular on individuals with severe mental illness are housed. We reformed the Florida Administrative Code to not allow the use of chemical agents against those individuals. She stated she heard a lot about liability. She stated that JJIS is an incredibly important system for you all to have access to. Several people have talked about knowing when a child comes in with a suicide alert, knowing they come in with a mental health alert, knowing where they’ve been, where they’ve travelled to, the kinds of alerts, knowing if they have had a problem with the staff before. It’s incredibly important information. Ms. Costello stated that the DJJ recently published a report with some data about the decrease in the use of PAR and they are very proud of that. She stated there is a wealth of information coming from the DJJ and it’s not being disregarded, but she feels it is not being paid the heed that it should. DJJ has learned to deal with kids and asked everyone to take up that information so we don’t hear about children being injured.
Ms. Costello stated she wanted to say one thing about the education point. This 180 day thing, and does not know what information is being tossed around but there are separate statutory requirements that unless a child chooses to remove him or herself from the education system, there is a mandatory requirement in Florida that a child be educated under the State Constitution and State Statutes. There are also education laws as well. She stated she is sure the group is aware of it. Sheriff Dean stated he believed the point was that was it the same as other children or up to 250 days. Sheriff Dean stated we were not going to eliminate education.
Sheriff Peryam stated he had to make a comment at this time. He stated that he was sure Ms. Costello did not mean it this way but he has been in law enforcement now for 33 years. Sheriff Peryam stated his intention has been from the beginning of his career until this day has been to do the very best job that we can do with everyone we come in contact with. We are well trained, we are well educated. We are not the law enforcement of the past. We are professionals and we work hard with every individual that comes within our care, custody and control. Whether that is a juvenile or an adult, we do the best. In fact a large majority of my agency are mentors within the school systems. We work hard within the juvenile justice systems to try and better educate and be a role model to folks. Maybe that’s why they want to be law enforcement officers and military people. Sheriff Peryam stated that he does not believe there is a more honorable profession. He advised he is shocked that some of them want to be lawyers. However, with that said, he also stated that when you stated about common sense, if you check this statistic, we have had a 70 percent reduction in injuries to officers or the people we come in contact with just by mere presence of the Taser. We don’t have to use them, and yet when the people we come in contact with see that tool on our belt, we don’t have the need to use them. We also don’t have the need any more to put our hands on. We don’t want to do that because it causes injury to both the person we come in contact with and our officer. We are a professional organization that does the best we can under the conditions we work under. Thank you.
Ms. Linda Siemer with Disability Rights Florida came to the podium. She stated that first of all, she would like to commend the Subcommittee and this Committee for the recognition that the needed to put Chapter 20 together is very appreciated by her organization. She stated that said to us that you understand that children are different than adults. That is an important concept that Lt. Owens provided during his time. He reiterated many times how important it was to remember that we are dealing with children. As Disability Rights Florida, they are looking at the children who come into the facilities. 78 percent of those children are part of the population we are mandated to serve under protection and advocacy. Those children have medical illnesses, mental disabilities and development disabilities. Those children have sustained trauma in their lives. Our concern is when chemical and electronic weapons are used on the children and in the presence of those children and what trauma that causes to them. Additional problems are caused just by the effect of it being there. If a child is having a manic issue and the Taser is on one of your officers, that child may be able to take that Taser from the officer and use it on him. We understand that children with mental health sometimes do things they should not do, but we understand that it is a manifestation of their disability. Our concern is that we look at what DJJ has done. We have been a partner with DJJ for the last two and a half years, looking at their PAR training. With partnership, we have increased their verbal de-escalation skills. We’re proud of that relationship with had with them. We encourage you that the PAR training is a very important part of dealing with the youth. Under the DJJ JJIS system, we encourage you look at that system and understand the importance of that system is to have the documentation of what’s going on with those kids. When they are ready to go to that next placement, an appropriate placement can be made knowing what happened in that short amount of time that you had them in your detention centers. Ms. Siemer stated they encourage the fact when you are looking at the chemical weapons, we’ve heard it compared to SRO’s in the school system. SRO’s are really hired for security within those school systems and it’s not that they are trying to intimidate the children who are there, but trying to protect the children from intruders who may come in to that facility. When we look at them carrying those weapons, those people are well trained and we’ve been honored to work with those folks over the years. Those SRO’s are mentors in the schools with the kids to help them understand the importance of behaving. She stated she believed that the reason they are carrying the Tasers and the weapons in the schools, it is much different than a secure setting where you are housing these children. We encourage the videotaping. She stated she does investigations in jails, as well as other facilities throughout the State of Florida. Many times those videos prove that the client I am representing has not understood what happened and it really happened the way the officer or the facility has said. Those videos are important to both ends of our relationships. Ms. Siemer stated she again wanted to commend each one of the Committee. She stated that there are 40 years of best practices from DJJ out there, please don’t discard that.
Sheriff Dean asked if there was anyone else who wanted to speak in the open forum because he was going to close that. Hearing none, Sheriff Dean asked for a five minute break and everyone will reconvene.
Sheriff Dean asked everyone to take their seats to resume the meeting. Sheriff Dean asked Lt. Owens if he had worked with some of his committee members on the waiver as to space and the 180 day education requirement. Lt. Owens stated that in reference to the space requirements, they have crafted language which will become “Effective October 1, 2011, youth detention buildings previously operated by the Department of Juvenile Justice may be exempt from Florida Model Jail Standards 5.08, if taken over by the Sheriff or the County. Upon renovations or modifications, all standards in 5.08 shall be met.” Sheriff Dean asked if that pertained to space requirements. Sheriff Dean asked if anyone had any objection to that language.
Commissioner Johnson stated just for clarification. He is trying to understand when you say renovations to the facility are they renovating the kitchen, could you explain that a little bit. Lt. Owens stated he would not refer specifically to a kitchen, it means more like the living space and the area the youth will be occupying. Sheriff Dean stated to limit the renovation or modification to the housing area. Sheriff Dean asked about further comments.
Lt. Owens stated the next one would be 20.07, the education issue. It should read now, “Detention centers shall provide a minimum of 180 days of education. If the FTE guidelines provide for a greater number of education days, the education requirement can be increased.” Commissioner Johnson suggested to state “as funded by Florida Education” then you don’t have to put any days in there and can educate for whatever is funded by the State.
***It should be noted that due to technical difficulties with the recorders, there is nothing further
End of record.
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FLORIDA MODEL JAIL STANDARDS REVIEW
SUBCOMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES (Unadopted)
Wednesday, August 30, 2011
09: 00 A.M.
Marion County Sheriff’s Office
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