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TELEVISION PROGRAM TO "CBS NEWS' FACE THE NATION."

CBS News

FACE THE NATION

Sunday, January 25, 2009

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN

Guest

Mr. Bob Schieffer, CBS News

Moderator/Panelist

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BOB SCHIEFFER: Today on FACE THE NATION, from Wilmington, Delaware, Joe Biden’s first interview as vice president. The new administration is not even a week old but it’s moving quickly, outlawing torture, announcing plans to close Guantanamo, and laying the groundwork for a huge plan to get the economy going. When will we begin to see results? That’s where we’ll start with the new Vice President Joe Biden. Then, I’ll have a final word on America’s real strength.

But, first, the Vice President on FACE THE NATION.

ANNOUNCER: FACE THE NATION with CBS News chief Washington correspondent Bob Schieffer. And now, from Wilmington, Delaware, Bob Schieffer.

BOB SCHIEFFER: And good morning again from Joe Biden’s hometown, Wilmington, Delaware.

Mister Vice President, this is your first appearance on FACE THE NATION as vice president. But--

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: It’s my first appearance as the vice president.

BOB SCHIEFFER: --we looked it up. This is your fifty-third appearance on FACE THE NATION--

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: (Overlapping) Oh, my Lord.

BOB SCHIEFFER: --in thirty-six years in the Senate. It’s no surprise that you set up quite a record as commuting back and forth from Washington to Wilmington every night when you’re in the Senate. I’m told that the Roll Call figured it up, the Capitol Hill newspaper, seven thousand four hundred round trips--

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Something like that, Bob.

BOB SCHIEFFER: --in what, thirty-six years—-

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: In thirty-six years, about—-

BOB SCHIEFFER: --in the Senate.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: (Overlapping) --two hundred.

BOB SCHIEFFER: So, it’s no surprise, I guess, that even though you now have an official residence in Washington, here you are taking your first weekend as vice president here in your hometown.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Well, my mom still lives here and it’s a—- and it’s a short hop and-- and I told her I’d get home as much-- I can’t convince her to move to Washington, so she lives in the same place that my-- where my home is. And so, you know, if I can get home here to see her, it’s good.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, that’s great.

Mister Vice President, let’s start with your new job here. You are following, what I would say is the single most powerful vice president in the history of this country and, certainly, one of the most controversial.

He basically became the deputy president. He made policy. He shaped and developed policy. Sometimes in the days after 9/11, he actually gave orders in the Chain of Command. There’s some argument as to whether the vice president really is in the Chain of Command. Be that as it may, what is your concept of the vice presidency? Will-- do you see it in the same way that Dick Cheney did?

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I don’t see myself as the deputy president. I see myself as the President’s confidant. Hopefully, I can help shape policy with him. Hopefully, I’m one of those people and, hopefully, I’m the last person in the room with every important decision he makes. Thus far, that’s how it’s worked. The agreement he and I have is that I would be available for every single major decision that he makes in the room. I'd have all the paper, all the material, all the meetings. And, again, not for me to make decisions, for me to give the best advice that I can give. Bob, when the President was generous enough to ask me to join him as vice president on the ticket, I asked him that-- I said, "I don’t want to be on the ticket, Mister President, unless—" at that time, Senator Barack Obama. I said “Barack, I don’t want to be on the ticket unless you’re hiring me on for my judgment. If you trust my judgment-- if you think my judgment is value added and I can be involved in all of this, then I’d be honored to be with you.” So that’s what I view my role to be: a confidant, an advisor, essentially, the last guy in the room when he makes these critical decisions.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Well, the first job, obviously, and we-- we heard the President spell it out already is fixing the economy. And I hear both you and the President say it’s worse now than-- than, perhaps, you thought it was.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Well, it’s worse quite frankly, Bob, and everyone sou-- thought it was and it’s getting worse every day. I mean, there’s no-- there’s been no good news. And, there’s no good news on the immediate horizon. The only good news is the President acted swiftly. He’s put together an economic stimulus package that we believe and outsiders believe where we will create three to four million new jobs and set a new framework for the economy to be develop on, a new foundation. And so, we’re off and running, but it's going to get worse before it gets better.

BOB SCHIEFFER: There is already opposition from the Republicans. They say they want to help, they recognize the problem, but they say there’s too much spending and not enough in the way of tax cuts.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Well--

BOB SCHIEFFER: Aren’t you going to have to give them a little something to get the kind of bipartisan support you really want?

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Well, we’ve already-- we’ve already have a lot of bipartisan support. For example, on the Senate side, which is now the bill is going through the Senate side, a significant portion which is in the bill, already from the outset, was placed there by Republicans. I, for one, personally, was on the phone with six Republican Senators--key Republican Senators--asking what they need, what they want, and we compromised ahead of time in terms of what we put in the bill, number one.

Number two, I think, you’re going to see a product that comes out of the Senate that is-- is one that is truly bipar-- I think we’ll get a significant bipartisan support out of the Senate. And, I think at the end of the day after the Senate use the Senate jargon. The House and the Senate go to conference and reconcile the differences, which would be very rapidly, I think, you’ll see a fairly strong vote across the board out of five hundred and thirty-five members for this stimulus package.

BOB SCHIEFFER: The-- Mister Boehner, the Republican leader over in the House, he wants lower tax rates for the two lar-- lowest tax brackets rather than the five-hundred-dollar tax credits that your plan calls for. He wants more tax breaks for small businesses. Those sound like things that were-- the Democrats could be for.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Well, they are. But, here’s the deal, Bob. What we’re trying to do is get money out the door as rapidly as you can. Let me give you an example. There is a debate about having a (sic) eliminating taxes on unemployment insurance. Well, that-- that’s a good idea except, guess what, you don’t get the benefits of that for a year from now. So what we did was increase unemployment benefits. So the same effect, quicker way to get the money out the door, why? You’ve got to begin to stimulate economic growth. That’s how we’re going to create job. So, there are differences we have about how best to do that. But, if you’d notice, roughly, forty percent of this entire package is tax cuts--that’s not what the Democrats wanted--and sixty percent of it is spending economic stimulus that's not what the Republicans wanted. But we've come a pretty long way already, so there will be, I'm sure, more compromise, but I-- I think everyone is seized, Bob. We have -- look, I've been there for eight Presidents. I don't ever recall as a Senator-- a senior Senator being called down in the very beginning even before the President's elected to a serious meeting as to how to proceed. And then the first thing we did the second day in office, the President of the United States called down the Congressional leaders and said "Folks, how's it going? What else do you need? Where are we?" And so there is a genuine effort here and, I think, everyone in both parties is seized with the notion we must act quickly. This has to happen before we go off on the Pre-- they go off on the Presidents day recess. 

BOB SCHIEFFER: Speaker Pelosi said this morning on ABC that there may be even more money that needs to be followed to the banks, more than has been included in the seven hundred billion that is already going to the banks. Do you agree with that?

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Look, Bob, here-- here's we are. Through the leadership of President-elect Obama and now President Obama and a little bit of help from me, we were able to convince the members of the House and Senate who're really bitten very badly by the first three hundred and fifty billion dollars spent. They did not think it was spent well, Democrats and Republicans. There's a real reluctance to release the second three hundred and fifty billion dollars. And we had to make pers-- we were happy to make personal commitments that any major expenditure out of that three hundred and fifty billion, which has been authorized now, would actually be looked at personally by the President and by me to get certain senators to vote for it to release that three fifty. It's important that it'd be transparent, it's important that there'd be accountability, and it's important that everyone know exactly what's the money is being spent on.

BOB SCHIEFFER: But does that mean, you might agree, that maybe more will be necessary?

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: No. That-- all I know is we cannot do anything, in my view, realistically more, absent demonstrating to the American public that we can husband their money and have much more responsibility and accountability for this three hundred and fifty billion dollars. We've now been given the authority to, quote, "spend on our financial institutions." That's the first order business.

Now, Monday, one of the most talented men, I think most people would agree, in-- in the last twenty years, Mister Geithner, I believe, will be voted out-- he's been voted out in the committee bi-- on a bipartisan vote. I think he'll get a strong bipartisan vote in the Senate secretary of Treasury. He will then report back to the President and me as to whether or not he thinks that three fifty hundred is enough. But first things first.

We've got to spend more rationally, reasonably, and transparently to move the financial institution to loosen up credit. And it's about credit for people. They have to be able to purchase their cars, they have to be able to send the kids back to school, they need some mortgage abatement, and so that's where we're focusing on in this three fifty, this remaining-- this next three fifty and we'll-- and we'll go from there.

 

BOB SCHIEFFER: All right. I'm going to take a break here. When we come back, we may talk about this and more, but we also want to talk about closing Guantanamo, your recent trip to Pakistan, that recent attack across the Pakistani border by, apparently, an American drone when we come back in a minute.

 

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Thank you.

 

I, Joseph Robinette Biden, Jr., do solemnly swear--

 

ASSOCIATE JUSTICE JOHN PAUL STEVENS: That I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

 

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

 

BOB SCHIEFFER: Back with Vice President Joe Biden.

Mister Vice President, it was great symbolism last week when the new President said he intends to close Guantanamo. But when you get past the symbolism, there're some really bad people down there. And the question is what are we going to do with them. We saw these people from all parts of the country representing in the Senate and the House. The senators and-- and representatives from across the country, they said, "Look, here's the problem. You bring these people back to U.S. prisons and then if you decide you don't have the evidence to hold them or a judge decides to let them go, are these the kinds of people that we can release inside the United States?" And what are you going to do with those people? What do you say to people who have these questions?

 

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Well, we won't release people inside the United States because all but, one, I believe, is-- is not an American citizen, an American national. So what I say to those people is we got to give us some time. It's kind of-- the reason where we've been as prudent as we have about definitely its closing, period. They're either going to be moved and tried in American courts, tried in military courts or they're going to be sent back to their countries.

 

BOB SCHIEFFER: (Overlapping) Well, some of these countries said they don't want them.

 

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Well, that's true. That's where we're literally, Bob, and I'm getting briefed in this as President. We're going on prisoner at a time. We're trying to figure out exactly what we've inherited here. The one thing we do know, Bob, is that the maintain-- the maintenance of Guantanamo--its symbol and the consequences of the symbolism around the world--it has grown terrorist organizations, not diminished terrorist organizations. So the question is-- there's no question as to be closed and we don't think it's inconsistent to deal with our national security and our constitution. We don't think they're inconsistent. That's why this count-- that's why we have the White House Council. Mister Craig is now going through this meticulously, deciding what we're going to do with each and every prisoner.

BOB SCHIEFFER: But you can assure people here this morning that these people are not going to be some of them, will not be released into the United States if the judge orders them free?

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: If they are not a U.S. citizen or if they are not here legally then even if they were released by a federal judge, they would not be able to stay here in the United States. They would be sent back to their country of origin. They would not stay here, umm.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Even if the countries say we don't want them?

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Well, that's true be-- because they-- but-- but they have no legal status to stay here. I don't anticipate that happening. What I anticipate happening is that those people were-- were in a situation where it is either the evidences in question or it's going to be hard to make a case, we will most likely be rendering them back to their countries of origin or another country. And, for example, there are-- there are countries that have already agreed that they would allow for there to be prison facilities in their country for enemy combatants that, in fact, were captured in a battlefield.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Do you think you can get this done in a year?

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I think so. I think so. It's going to be hard. There's nothing easy about this, Bob. I don't want to mislead the American public at all. You've characterized it correctly. There are some difficult decisions to be made here, and the way in which Guantanamo is opened and operated in-- initially raises additional issues as to how we are able to deal in American courts and in military tribuna-- military courts under the uniform code, mi-- military code with some of these prisoners. It's very complicated.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Ah, let's talk about-- about your trip.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Yeah.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You're just back from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq. Last week an American drone, apparently, attacked an al Qaeda force, what they thought was an al Qaeda force in the territorial part of-- of Pakistan, cross-border operation. It's my understanding that the President-- the previous President gave our U.S. Forces and the CIA permission to go across that border, to go after al Qaeda if it became necessary on the ground. Does President Obama, will he continue that policy?

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Bob, as you now, I can't speak to any particular attack. I can't pa-- speak to any particular action. It's not appropriate for me to do that. But I can say that the President of the United States said during his campaign, and in the debates, that if there is an actionable target of a high-level al Qaeda personnel that-- that he would not hesitate to-- to use action to deal with that. But here's the good news. The good news is that in my last trip, and I have been to Pakistan many times and in that region many times, there's a great deal more cooperation going on now between the Pakistan military in an area called the FATA, the Federally Administered Territory--Waziristan, North Waziristan--all that area we hear about that is really, sort of, ungovernable, not sort of, it's been ungovernable for the Pakistani government. That's where the bad guys are hiding. That's where the al Qaeda folks are, and some other malcontents. And so what we're doing is we're in the process of working with the Pakistanis to help train up their counterinsurgency capability, their military, and we're getting new agreements with them about how to deal with cross-border movements of these folks. So, we're making progress.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Would you notify them before any of these cross-border movements because, as you well know, there-- there is a fear that-- that there would be leaks on something like that and there might be a temptation not to. Exactly what is our policy on that?

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I always try to be completely candid with you but I can't respond to that question. I'm not going to respond to that question.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You-- you're not going to respond to that question. One thing you did say you said in Afghanistan that things are going to get tougher before they get better.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: That's true.

BOB SCHIEFFER: What do you mean by that?

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Well, what's happened is that because of, neglect may be the wrong word, but failure to provide sym-- sufficient resources--economic, political, and military; as well as failure to get a coherent policy among our allies--economically, politically, and in terms of res-- military resources. The situation deteriorated a great deal. The Taliban is in effective control of significant parts of the conv-- of the country, they were not before, number one. Number two, ninety-five percent roughly of the world's opium and heroin-- heroin comes out of that country. We need-- and their police department, the National Police Force, which was relied upon heavily as you've noticed in Iraq as it was in Bosnia, we trained them up and so on, is essentially the-- the corruption is rife. Some of our allies who committed to train these troops did not do them well. So the bottom line here is we've inherited a real mess. We're about to go in and try to essentially reclaim territory that's been affectively lost. So it's going to require-- there are going to be some additional military forces, there are going to be ex-- ad-- additional efforts to train their police and to train their-- their-- their Afghan army. And all of that means we're going to be engaging the enemy more now.

BOB SCHIEFFER: So should we expect more American casualties?

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I hate to say it, but yes, I think, there will be. There will be an uptick because as-- as the commander in Afghanistan said-- said, "Joe, we will get this done but we're going to be engaging the enemy that much more."

BOB SCHIEFFER: What do you think the state of Iraq is right now? I know you're just back from there as well.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I think if I can use a football metaphor moving up to Super Bowl Sunday, I think we're basically on the twenty-yard line, twenty yards to go, but now comes the really hard part. The surge did work. Our military has done everything we've asked of them. But there needs to be a political reconciliation in Iraq. You've heard me on your program man- many times--

BOB SCHIEFFER: Mm-Hm.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: --talking about in the past, the need for the Iraqis to determine whether they have a federal system or a strong central government. They are in debate on that. There's going to be three major elections that are going to take place this year--provisional-- provisional elections, national elections. I won't bore everybody with the details. The bottom line is that a political reconciliation among Sunni, Shia, and Kurd, Arab and-- and Indo-European Arab and Kurd. All of that is still in flux. There's progress being made on it but we need a much stronger push, and there has to be an additional, I think, show of responsibility on the part of the Iraqi leaders that they are able to govern. Last point: there's a need for a petrochemical law, a-- a-- a-- an oil law. How-- how do they divide up the revenues? It's a big, big, big, big, big deal. There's a need for there to be a decision on-- on what authority the regions have, like our states versus if I can make an analogy. We started off with the Articles of Confederation, a loosely federated government. We had a very weak central gov-- government, states were strong. We then had a constitution. Strong central government, states not. So, all those things are going on.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Can this happen when all the people involved know that we are bringing our people home?

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Yes. But we're not--- we're bringing our people home totally consistent with what had been worked out by with the Iraqi parties. The one strong sign of some political movement is all the parties voted for this so-called sofa that is the deal on how we protect American troops, when we draw them down, and in what order we draw them down. And so, yes, Bob, I think it's totally consistent. I think we can do it.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You have a new job now.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I do.

BOB SCHIEFFER: You had the job you used to have for a long, long time.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Yeah. Yeah.

BOB SCHIEFFER: What thirty-six years?

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Thirty-six years, yeah.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Is this going to change you, you are known for being candid for talking--

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Yeah.

BOB SCHIEFFER: --being unafraid to talk. Is it harder now? People on the Hill are independent contractors.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Well, it-- it-- it-- it--

BOB SCHIEFFER: You are now part of a team.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: --it is harder now. It is-- I'm-- I'm-- I'm really happy to be part of a team but what I have to think about now is everything I say I am the vice president. I am not the President. I'm the vice president, so everything that I say dir-- reflects directly on the administration and so I may have strongly held views that the President may not have, and they should be done-- that should be done between us not for me to but, yeah, the-- the bottom line, yeah, it's harder.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Mister Vice President, we hope we'll see you many times over the coming years.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I hope so, Bob. I really do.

BOB SCHIEFFER: Thank you so much.

VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Thank you.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

BOB SCHIEFFER: Finally today, it is an example I have cited many times over the years that Hubert Humphrey once said the 1964 Civil Rights Act was America's single most effective foreign policy initiative. It had nothing to do with foreign policy but it told the world who we were and what we stood for and that our system was about fairness and equal treatment and that it worked.

I thought about that when Barack Obama announced that torture would never be part of our national policy. America has always been the most successful when it is leading by example, when we've practiced what we've preached. America's weapons did not win the cold war, they kept the Soviet Union at bay. The war was won when the people on the other side looked across the Iron Curtain, saw a better way of life there, realized their system of government could not give it to them, and so the walls came down.

With a simple declaration, President Obama told the world our system of government is so strong we don't need to torture people to survive. That is the way of those who would destroy us. But that is not us. We have found a better way. That is what our message to the world must be. More importantly, that is what we want our children to know. When we are admired and respected by others, we are far more secure than any weapon can ever make us.

Back in a moment.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

BOB SCHIEFFER: And that's our broadcast. Thanks for watching. We'll be back in Washington, next Sunday, on FACE THE NATION.

This broadcast was produced by CBS News, which is solely responsible for the selection of today’s guests and topics. It originated in Washington, DC.

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