Reading the World and Reading the Word: An Interview with ...

Reading the World and Reading the Word: An Interview with Paulo Freire Author(s): Paulo Freire Source: Language Arts, Vol. 62, No. 1, Making Meaning, Learning Language (January 1985), pp. 15-21 Published by: National Council of Teachers of English Stable URL: . Accessed: 15/07/2014 22:59 Your use of the JSTOR archive indicates your acceptance of the Terms & Conditions of Use, available at . . JSTOR is a not-for-profit service that helps scholars, researchers, and students discover, use, and build upon a wide range of content in a trusted digital archive. We use information technology and tools to increase productivity and facilitate new forms of scholarship. For more information about JSTOR, please contact support@. .

National Council of Teachers of English is collaborating with JSTOR to digitize, preserve and extend access to Language Arts.



This content downloaded from 129.219.247.33 on Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:59:14 PM All use subject to JSTOR Terms and Conditions

Reading

the

Reading

the

An Interview

World Word:

with

and Paulo

Freire

Teachingand Educating

LanguageArts: Paulo, you are knownforyourworkin whatpeople call liberation education- educationto help learnersovercomeoppressionand achieve variouskindsoffreedom- and thespecialrolewhichdialogueand literacyplayin thatprocess.The teacher'sroleinthisexperienceis key.Wouldyoudescribewhat beinga teachermeansto you?

Paulo Freire: I lovebeinga teacher.To me,beinga teacherdoes notmeanbeing a missionary,or havingreceiveda certaincommand fromheaven. Rather,a teacheris a professionalo,ne whomustconstantlyseekto improveand to develop certainqualities or virtues,whichare not receivedbut must be created.The capacityto renewourselveseverydayis veryimportantI.t preventsus fromfalling intowhatI call "bureaucratizatioonfmind."I am a teacher.

LanguageArts: Whatare some ofthesevirtuesor qualitiesyou see as important fortheprofessionatleacher?

Paulo Freire: Virtuesare qualities which you re-createthroughaction and throughpractice,qualitieswhichmakeus consistentand coherentconcerningour dreams- a consistencywhichteacherstryto achievewithinwhattheyare doing.

Humilityis an importantvirtuefor a teacher,the qualityof recognizin-g withoutanykindof sufferin-gour limitsof knowledgeconcerningwhatwe can and cannotdo througheducation.Humilityacceptstheneedwe haveto learnand relearnagain and again,thehumilityto knowwiththosewhomwe helpto know. You mustbe humblebecause you don'thave any reasonnot to be humble.But beinghumbledoes not meanthatyou acceptbeinghumiliatedH. umilityimplies understandingthe pain of others,the feelingsof others.We should respectthe expectationsthatstudentshave and theknowledgestudentshave. Our tendency as teachersis to startfromthepointat whichwe are and not fromthepointat whichthe studentsare. The teacherhas to be free to say to students"You convincedme."Dialogue is notan emptyinstructionatlactic,buta naturalpartof theprocessofknowing.

Another importantvirtue for the teacher is patience and its opposite, impatienceW. e teachersmustlearnhowto makea lifetogetherwithourstudents who may be differenftromus. This kind of learningimplies patience and

MythanktsoJunMe cConaghfyorhelpintheeditinogfthisintervieEwd.itor.

LanguageArts,Volum6e2,Number1,January1985

15

This content downloaded from 129.219.247.33 on Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:59:14 PM All use subject to JSTOR Terms and Conditions

16 LanguagAe rts

impatienceW. e mustalwaysbe impatientabout achievingourdreamand helping studentsachievetheirs.Yet ifwe and our studentspushtoo hardand too fastfor ourdreams,we maydestroythem.Thus,we mustbe patientlyimpatient.

Toleranceis anothervirtuewhichis veryimportantI.t involvesbothhumility and patience.Tolerance means learninghow to confrontthe antagonist.For instance,a classroomof studentsis not a social class as such,butis made up of individualstudentswhobringto classwiththemvarioussocialclassbackgrounds. As a teachermyrelationshipwiththemis nota class relationshipM. y valuesmay be differenftromthe students',but I cannot forthatreason take themas my enemies.I mustbe tolerant.

The storyis toldaboutChairmanMao's niececomplainingto himabout"Viva ChiangKai-Shek!"foundscrawledon a blackboardat heruniversityIn. response to Mao's questions,she told himtherewereonlyabout tworeactionarieasmong the fivethousandstudentsat her universitythat would have writtenit. Mao repliedthatit was too bad therewereonlytwo,thatit would be betterforthe Communistside if therewere more reactionariesaround. He pointedout that people had therightto say whattheythoughtb, utthattheCommunistside also had therightto tryto convincethemtheyarewrong.

All thesevirtuesconnect.For instancebeingtolerantimpliesrespecta,nd being tolerantimpliesassumingthe naivetyof the student.A teachermustacceptthe naivetyof the studentforpracticalreasons. You cannot overcomea student's naivetyby decree.We muststartat thepointwherethestudentsare. If we start fromthe pointwherewe are, we mustmake connectionswiththe positionin whichthe studentsare. In orderforstudentsto go beyondtheirnaivety,it is necessaryforthemto grasptheirnaivetyintotheirownhandsand thentheywill tryto maketheimportantleap, buttheywillleap withyou.Assumingthenaivety of the studentdoesn't mean becomingnaive or stayingat the naive level of thestudents.To assumethe naivetyof thestudentis to understandthe naivety and not to refuseit dogmatically,but to say yes to the naivetyand mediate to challengethenaivestudent,so theycan go beyondtheirnaiveunderstanding of reality.

The finalvirtue,ifpossible,is the abilityto love students,in spiteof everything.I don't mean a kind of softor sweetlove, but on the contrarya very affirmativleove,a love whichaccepts,a love forstudentswhichpushesus to go beyond,whichmakesus moreand moreresponsibleforourtask. LanguageArts: You have oftenused thephrase"teacherlearner"in referencteo theteacherintheclassroom.In a teachingsituationhowdo youseetheteacheras a learner? Paulo Freire: I considerit an importantquality or virtueto understandthe impossibleseparationof teachingand learning.Teachers should be conscious everyday thattheyare comingto schoolto learnand notjust to teach.This way we are not just teachersbut teacherlearners.It is reallyimpossibleto teach withoutlearningas well as learningwithoutteaching.We cannotseparateone

This content downloaded from 129.219.247.33 on Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:59:14 PM All use subject to JSTOR Terms and Conditions

ReadingtheWorldandReadingtheWord 17

fromthe other;we createa violencewhenwe try.Over a periodof timewe no longerperceiveit as violencewhenwe continuallyseparateteachingfromlearning. Then we conclude that the teacherteaches and the studentlearns.That unfortunateliys when studentsare convincedthat theycome to school to be taughtand thatbeingtaughtoftenmeanstransferencoefknowledge.

Knowingthe concept of an object impliesapprehendingthe object. I first apprehendtheobject,in apprehendingtheobjectI knowit,and because I know it,I thenmemorizeit. ApprehendingprecedesmemorizationL. earningdoes not existwithoutknowingT. eachingformethenis challengingthestudentsto know, to apprehendtheobject.

As teachers,we learn fromthe process of teachingand we learn withthe studentsforwhomwe makepossibletheconditionsto learn.We also learnfrom theprocessesthatthestudentsare also teachingus. LanguageArts: Whatis yourvisionof education?Whatdo you hope education woulddo forthegrowthofyoungchildren? Paulo Freire:For me educationis simultaneouslyan act of knowing,a political act,and an artisticevent.Thus,I no longerspeak about a politicaldimensionof education.I no longerspeak about a knowingdimensionofeducation.As well,I don't speak about educationthroughart. On the contraryI say educationis politics,art,and knowing.Educationis a certaintheoryof knowledgeput into practiceeveryday,butitis clothedin a certainaestheticdress.Our verypreoccupationwithhelpingkidsshapethemselveass beingsis an artisticaspectofeducation. Whilebeinga teacherdemandsthatwe be simultaneouslya politician,an epistomologista,nd an artist,I recognizethatitis noteasyto be thesethreethings together.

Thus,to theextentthatwe are responsiblew, e mustbecomeprepared,competent,capable. We shouldnotfrustrattehosestudentswho come to us hopingfor answersto theirexpectations,to theirdoubts,to theirdesireto know.We must have some knowledge,ofcourse,about our subject,butwe mustalso knowhow to helpthemto know.Thisdimensionofhow is also an artisticone and notjust a methodologicaol ne.

Many issuesand questionsarisefromthisunderstandingof theact of education.For example,it suggeststhatwe teachersshouldbe constantlyaskingquestionsofourselvesand ofourstudentst,o createa spiritin whichwe are certainby notbeingcertainofourcertaintiesT.o theextentthatwe are notquitesureabout ourcertaintiesw, e beginto "walktoward"certainties.

Anotherexampleis thateducationhas politicityt,hequalityofbeingpolitical. As well,politicshas educabilityt,hequalityof beingeducational.Politicalevents are educationaland viceversa.Because educationis politicityi,t is neverneutral. Whenwe tryto be neutral,like Pilate,we supportthe dominantideology.Not beingneutral,educationmustbe eitherliberatingor domesticating(.Yet I also recognizethatwe probablyneverexperienceit as purelyone or the otherbut rathera mixtureof both.)Thus,we have to recognizeourselvesas politicians.It

This content downloaded from 129.219.247.33 on Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:59:14 PM All use subject to JSTOR Terms and Conditions

18 LanguageArts

does notmeanthatwe have therightto imposeon studentsour politicalchoice. Butwe do havethedutynotto hideour choice.Studentshavetherightto know whatour politicaldreamis. Theyare thenfreeto acceptit,rejectit,or modifyit. Our task is not to impose our dreamson them,but to challengethemto have theirown dreams,to definetheirchoices,notjust to uncriticallyassumethem.

Many teachersunfortunatelhyave been destroyedbythedominantideologyof a societyand theytendto imposethatway of seeingtheworldand behavingon kids.Theyusuallyviewit as "saving"kids,as a missionarywould.This tendency stemsfroma superioritycomplex.Whenwe fallintothiswayofthinkingw, e are touchingkids withsurgicalmasks and gloves. The dominantideology,which servestheinterestosf thesociallypowerfulm, akestheworldopaque to us. We oftenbelievetheideologicalwordsthatare told to us- and whichwe repeatratherthanbelievingwhatwe'reliving.The onlyway to escape thatideological trap,to unveilrealityi,s to createa counter-ideologtyo helpus breakthedominant ideology.This is accomplishedby reflectingcriticallyon our concrete experiencest,o considertheraisond'etreofthefactswe reflecton. Teachersmust be able to playwithchildren,to dreamwiththem.Theymustwettheirbodies in thewatersof children'sculturefirstT. hen theywillsee how to teachreading and writing.

Once teachersseethecontradictionbetweentheirwordsand theiractions,they have twochoices.Theycan becomeshrewdlyclearand awareoftheirneedto be reactionaryo,rtheycan accepta criticalpositionto engagein actionto transform reality.I call it"makingEaster"everyday,to die as thedominatorand be born againas thedominatedf, ightintgo overcomeoppression.

The Role ofLanguageand Reading

LanguageArts:How does language,especiallyreading,fitin withyourvisionof education?How can ithelpdevelopcriticalconsciousnessto knowourdreamsin orderto be freeand movetowardthosedreams?

Paulo Freire:Ifwe thinkofeducationas an act of knowing,thenreadinghas to do withknowingT. he act ofreadingcannotbe explainedas merelyreadingwords sinceeveryact of readingwordsimpliesa previousreadingof theworldand a subsequentrereadingof the world.There is a permanentmovementback and forthbetween"reading"realityand readingwords- thespokenwordtoo is our readingoftheworld.We can go furtherh,owever,and saythatreadingtheword is notonlyprecededbyreadingtheworld,butalso bya certainformofwritingit or rewritinigt.In otherwords,oftransforminigtbymeansofconsciouspractical action.For me,thisdynamicmovementis centralto literacy.

Thus, we see how readingis a matterof studyingrealitythatis alive,reality thatwe are livinginsideof,realityas historybeingmadeand also makingus. We can also see how it is impossibleto read textswithoutreadingthecontextofthe text,withoutestablishingtherelationshipbs etweenthediscourseand thereality

This content downloaded from 129.219.247.33 on Tue, 15 Jul 2014 22:59:14 PM All use subject to JSTOR Terms and Conditions

 ................
................

In order to avoid copyright disputes, this page is only a partial summary.

Google Online Preview   Download