MINUTES OF THE CLAY TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISION …



MINUTES OF THE CLAY TOWNSHIP PLANNING COMMISION REGULAR MEETING

HELD WEDNESDAY, APRIL 25, 2012 - IN THE CLAY TOWNSHIP MEETING HALL, 4710 PTE. TREMBLE ROAD, CLAY TOWNSHIP, MICHIGAN 48001

1. CALL TO ORDER:

Chairman Dorothy DeBoyer called the meeting to order at 7:35 p.m.

2. ROLL CALL:

PRESENT: Lesly Cahill, Christine Holcomb, Whitey Simon, Kathie Schweikart, Thomas Krueger, Anthony Antkowiak, and Dorothy DeBoyer

ABSENT AND EXCUSED: John Blair, Edward Keller

A quorum was established.

ALSO PRESENT: Patrick Meagher, Community Planning & Management, P.C.

3. APPROVAL/AMENDMENTS TO AGENDA:

None.

4. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF JANUARY 25, 2012:

Comments:

Antkowiak: I’ll ask the question, there are some “x’s” in here that I didn’t understand.

Chairperson DeBoyer: I agree. I wondered too. What does it mean where the “x’s” are?

Brobst: That I didn’t understand what was said at the time. I couldn’t make it out on the tape.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Are the tapes not clear?

Brobst: That one was not. There was one gentleman who spoke from approximately over here, did not get up and go over there and it didn’t occur to me at the time, because I could clearly hear him, that he wasn’t speaking into the recorder.

Chairperson DeBoyer: And on the second page, this would be under Brian’s comments. “And definitely put it on the agenda as we probably should, because it is usually hung up by Nick or anyplace else.” I don’t know what that means.

Simon: Oh that’s where most of the things are displayed at Delta Hardware Store is what I think is what he’s referring to. Nick Sarzynski. Most of the information is passed through the hardware store and it winds up on his window. That’s our unofficial sign board.

Krueger: All the agendas are posted on his window.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Well, I’m surprised Brian would make that comment.

Meagher: So am I.

Chairperson DeBoyer: I don’t think Brian would be aware of that.

Meagher: No, he does not know.

Simon: That’s the only Nick

Meagher: Maybe he has more knowledge than I thought.

Chairperson DeBoyer: And just personally, under the Public Comments, and then there’s comments from the board discussing a letter apparently from Patrick Feighan, I did not receive a copy of that letter.

Simon: You did not.

Chairperson DeBoyer: No, I did not.

Simon: You didn’t either.

Antkowiak: It seemed everybody except me on that evening did receive a copy of it. Basically is what we were talking about.

Simon: Yeah, I have a copy.

Antkowiak: And then it was assumed that Dorothy had a copy and it was passed on to Patrick.

Simon: Yes.

Chairperson DeBoyer: No, I did not.

Simon: But I thought Patrick got it directly, did you not?

Meagher: I did get it.

Simon: Yes. He sent it directly.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Okay, well, I didn’t. Okay.

Motion made by Cahill, supported by Simon, to approve the Minutes of March 28, 2012 meeting, as submitted.

AYES: All NAYS: None MOTION CARRIED.

5. PUBLIC HEARING:

Special Approval Land Use/Site Plan Consideration:

Smoke on the Bay Restaurant – 7479 Dyke Rd.

NLN Properties LLC and Norman Rhodes, Manager

Chairperson DeBoyer: We are here tonight for a public hearing on the Special Approval Land Use and Site Plan Consideration for Smoke on the Bay at 7479 Dyke Rd. In a public hearing the applicant will have the first opportunity to address the commission and then the public will have the opportunity to make their comments. We do ask that if you are planning on making a comment that has already been made a number of times, to keep the meeting under a reasonable length of time, that it not be repeated over and over again. After the public has made all of their comments, the applicant will have a second opportunity to respond and then the public hearing will be closed and the planning commission will make their decision as to how they are going to handle it. So it is approximately 7:40 and we will open the public hearing at this time and if the applicant would like to address us please do so at the podium.

Norman Rhodes: Good evening everyone. My name is Norman Rhodes. I’m the manager and the plans that you have before you are for the Piers Marina and Smoke on the Bay Restaurant. As a little introduction, I’d like to just tell you a little bit about it. Since we purchased it, there have been many improvements made to the restaurant and to the marina facility. It’s our intention to be more of an upscale restaurant than in the past. Mr. Paul Rudy, to my right, has taken over and is owner of Smoke on the Bay Restaurant. He has created an exceptional food business. Just last week he won first prize for food in the Algonac Chamber of Commerce Taste of the Town. This restaurant and marina facility will continue to be an asset to our community. I would like to address the site plan that is before you and our requests and the issues that have been enumerated by our planner. But first, before I get to that, just briefly, I would like you to meet the other gentleman involved in our project and that is Mr. Paul Rudy from Smoke on the Bay. Paul.

Paul Rudy: I’m Paulie Rudy, owner of Smoke on the Bay. Been a long time by Lake St. Clair resident, lived on Harsens for 10 years, and been involved in numerous restaurants for the last 25 years. I understand the concerns of the board, my neighbors, my municipality and my patrons. Today we are asking for patio service, which will include food and beverage and light entertainment. What is light entertainment? Ambient music, an acoustic guitar player, soft instruments. All the time following all of the ordinances set down by the township. I want everyone to know that I’m always available. I’m there 7 days a week, 24 hours a day to answer any questions or concerns that anybody has. We have great food, everybody loves the place and I certainly want to work with the township, my neighbors and everybody. I think we’re doing a great job and as long as we talk to one another we’ll be just fine. That’s it. Thank you.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Thank you.

Rhodes: The plan that’s before you, our site plan, and for everyone’s edification, basically has four parts to it: two building items, a restroom facility expansion and as Paulie mentioned, the request for the outside entertainment on the deck. I have to beg your pardon for the inconsistency in the plans that are before you and I understand that a decision will not be made tonight involving this. The plans that we used that you have in front of you, were based on an old survey and it was not apparent to myself or to the architect that handled it for us and it was brought to our attention by the building department that there were some inconsistencies in it that had to be resolved before it moves on. We have hired BMJ Engineering to straighten that out for us. What’s involved in that is to have the entire property resurveyed, all the boundaries defined to a better extent than they were on that previous plan. The other thing that is happening in the middle of this is also that there are three parcels and we are at the same time combining them for one parcel. The survey will be done next week. They are going to try to get it to me, and I hope to get it to you some time the following week for your consideration. It doesn’t really affect anything that we are asking for in this site plan as far as where the buildings are located or the size of anything. It doesn’t affect anything like that. It just is a more accurate public record. I’d like to address the concerns of the planner and if you have that in front of you, on his letter dated February 14, item #1: The shed, it’s called a shed. Paulie has created a seafood and smoked-food restaurant which has a commercial smoker, which is a very large unit that is housed outdoors. It is built to be outdoors, it is outdoors. The health department has decided that they require a covering or a building for the smoker. That is one of their requirements. Hence, we decided to, rather than just put a lean-to over it, that we would put an appropriate building around it to secure it also. The planner’s concerns are shielding it from the view of the neighbors. My outlook on that is that it’s in the middle of the property, it’s behind screening, it’s behind a garage from the north side. There is really not a whole lot of viewing of that building from the neighbor’s side and I don’t really think that that is an issue. If we need to extend the fence that’s on the canal side or something like that, that’s not a big problem. So I see no problem with that or some additional screening. Item #2 – the deck: the deck has been approved previously for a covering over it and for outdoor service. The one stipulation to the previous approval was that there was to be no outside entertainment. That application was done by the previous owners and we have no knowledge of what that was all about or what the intention was of the no entertainment. I can assure you that there will be no bands or things of that nature. That is not the intent of what we’re requesting for the deck. Item #3 – the bathrooms: the bathroom addition is something we really need to accomplish. The restaurant and marina facility has been there for many, many, many years and the restroom facilities are not up to code for handicap and things of that nature. We feel the need to do that for our patrons. The area where the restrooms are currently in the part of the building just next to them is an area that is 13 x 15 feet where we are looking to expand the building and within that rebuild and expand the restrooms right in that immediate area. We are not moving the restrooms to a different part of the building, they are basically right there anyway. So we feel there is a definite need to address that situation. Item #4 – has to do with the, as the planner has said the spruce trees in front of the building. He is talking about a marina building that we would like to put in the yard for boat storage and things of that nature. In our plans we had put in trees along the back side, the north side of the property there between the building and the road. The trees, we don’t know what size are required. I’m sure the architect can do that. But we have no problem with the trees, but we would like to look at maybe something different, other than trees to address that situation. Item #5 – as I mentioned, when you get the updated plan, we will address the specs for the bathroom.

Chairperson DeBoyer: #5 is really addressed to the construction.

Rhodes: I’m sorry #6. I skipped #5. #5 – I’ve read through that. I do believe that we do meet all the requirements of Section 19.05. And then #6 – the bathroom additions, we will have that for you when we submit the addendum to the site plan in the next two weeks. And with that, I’m able to answer any questions to the best of my ability and Paulie is also available to answer any of your questions and concerns.

Chairperson DeBoyer: It’s now open to public comments. Anyone wishing to comment, we ask that you come to the podium; state your name and your address and then you may make your comments. Your comments are addressed to the Chairman and there is to be no interaction between the public and the applicant during that time. Yes sir.

Jack Olsen – 3601 Pte. Tremble: Right next to the Harsens Island Ferry. I guess I’m aware of some of the animosity between the neighbors that live across the canal there at Smoke on the Bay. My only point is that that restaurant has been there for a long time, 40 some years, maybe longer. When I bought the place where I’m at right now I was well aware of the ferry being there. Sometimes when the boat operator falls asleep at 3 o’clock in the morning it can be disturbing, but I bought the place knowing full well that that’s what you have to deal with. I would just hate to see this particular item here get dictated by a minority instead of a majority. These people are good people and I hope you give them a consideration. But my point is when you buy a place and there is already an existing situation there, you should be aware of it. Don’t buy the place and then complain later. Thank you.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Thank you. Yes sir.

Dave Matthews – 7647 Dyke Rd: I live probably about maybe an 1/8th of a mile down the street. I would like to stand in support of Smoke on the Bay’s petition to have music. I’m going to try to not be long-winded, but we know the vital contribution that the small businesses do for our local economy and with that, you know they turn around and support all our local vendors from buying their supplies and would just like to stand in support. I know a lot of people want to talk, so I’m not going to address a whole lot, just we should take that into consideration. Thank you.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Thank you. Anyone else?

Larry Jayroe – 7796 Lake Dr: I live one canal down. When I bought my house, I was aware that that establishment was there. It had just opened at the time of the original Sandbar restaurant. I’ve patronized that restaurant; I’ve patronized the restaurant after that and now this one. There has been a big difference between the restaurants in the past and this one. They handle things very professionally, the food is excellent, and they’re very considerate neighbors, very considerate. They’ve done everything above and beyond what’s been necessary so far. It’s a top drawer operation. I bought this house knowing what I was moving into and next to and have been very, very pleased. It’s been a real nice place to be able to go and get a quick meal after a hard day of work. I own Coventry Construction and Coventry Property Management and it’s nice to be able to stop, I go out of my way to patronize my local establishments here, way out of my way, and I think we should be keeping our money here in our local economy and helping our small businesses so that we can expand and become successful in these very, very difficult times and I would appreciate your consideration to help them with this. I know for sure, in my own mind, that this is going to be very low keyed, it’s just going to be ambient music that they’re asking for and it would be really nice to be able to go there, either by boat or by car, and have a nice lunch overlooking the water on a nice summer day and be able to have that view and a nice meal, because the food is excellent and enjoy that you know, outside with a little ambient music. So I hope you really take consideration on this and we do appreciate it as the local residents in the area. Thank you for your consideration.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Thank you. Yes ma’am.

Cheryl Stewart – 7900 Inglewood: I have lived on that street for 15 years, never had a problem with any bar except for the one there now. I think there’s a law about not going over so many decibels at certain times and last January, I was watching TV, it was dead cold outside, windows were all closed and BOOM, BOOM, BOOM. I had to keep turning up my TV and I did, I called the police and the police didn’t do anything. And I know that because I watched. The music came down while they were in there for a little bit and then it went back up. I don’t have a problem with them being there, it’s just I don’t see why there was one owner that had a $500 fine because he did go over decibels one time and I would like to see that law enforced. I don’t care if there’s a bar there, I’d like to see that enforced. If they can’t keep it within the law now, if it goes outside what’s gonna happen? That’s my concern. This has been going on and on and on. It’s only been warm enough to keep the windows open for a couple of days this whole winter and every weekend. They’ve been good lately because I think this meeting was coming up, but it’s bad. It really is. My husband’s not a big complainer and it gets to be about 1 o’clock in the morning over there and the windows are shaking. So I just, from law enforcement or somebody, somebody’s not following the rules. I called the police another time. They said they didn’t hear anything. I was watching. They went in there. They had to be deaf, not to hear anything and the dispatcher whoever asked me if I wanted to talk to an officer and I said no and that was that. A couple of other times I called and they said do you want to talk to an officer and I said yes I do. The officer came by and he acted like it’s your fault, you live here and he didn’t do anything. After that my husband calls and he didn’t have to talk to an officer and this is 1 o’clock in the morning and the windows are shaking and that’s the reason why he called and I just, if this outdoor thing happens, if they can’t take it down a notch inside, what’s gonna happen outside? That’s my big concern. I have two little ones, and we have little kids who are trying to sleep and people who have to get up and go to work in the morning and it’s real disturbing. What’s good for one should be good for all. That’s all from me.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Okay. Thank you. Yes.

Sharon Phillips – 8524 Anchor Bay Drive: In the short time I’ve lived in this area I’ve seen several restaurants close that seemed to have been around for a long time; Hook, Line and Sinker, Vernier. I just can’t understand why we would be discussing not giving a business every opportunity in the world to be successful. It’s on a marina, it’s very obviously going to be noisy there. There are boats with sound systems and happy people. I’ve only lived here for about five years and I looked on that street. That’s one of the houses that we looked at and I knew at the time there was a marina, I thought that’s great, I’m happy to live close by it, but I chose not to live next door to it. I think the people that live on that street knew when they bought their houses. I mean, as a city, we need to look at the whole picture and not try and make one person happy. Let’s make our city successful and get tourists in with someplace to go. Thank you.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Thank you. Yes sir.

Robert Hannon – 7499 Zobl Court: I live about five doors down from the Smoke. The Smoke restaurant and bar sits right in the middle of a residential area and I believe that Clay Township noise ordinance 129 stipulates that the maximum noise level at the property line be 65-75 dB, I believe that’s in there. I think that some sunny Sunday afternoon when the residents are firing up their barbeques, the kids are playing out there, friends and family are up and down that street enjoying themselves and they switch on their sound system, there’s going to be a problem. Acoustic guitar or something is one thing, but this thing, I believe is going to grow into something bigger. I wish Paulie all the luck, we’ve eaten over there, the food is great, but I say keep the noise on the inside. To have it on the outside would be disruptive to their neighborhood I really believe that. Thank you.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Thank you. Yes sir.

Kevin McDougal – 7867 Inglewood: I bought the house probably around four years ago and I welcome the restaurant for being there for the food. I think the food is excellent, it’s a little breath of fresh air on cleaning up of the canal and stuff like that. The only thing I had a question was if they’re having all this construction, I wish you would’ve had it displayed. You guys were talking about the outhouses and all that, I mean, I wish you had it so we could look at it, of what his plans were.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Whenever there is going to be anything like this and it is published in the newspaper, you can go into the building department and look at the plans, the site plan.

McDougal: I didn’t know that. But, what I’m saying is, I understand them trying to get it better and clean it up, the only thing is on the decibels, the last gentleman said I believe it’s 65, do you know what the decibel?

Chairperson DeBoyer: I’m not sure. In addition to the zoning ordinance we do have a noise ordinance also in Clay Township.

McDougal: I was just curious on how does anybody measure it?

Chairperson DeBoyer: There is an instrument available for measuring it.

McDougal: Right. Do the police have it?

Chairperson DeBoyer: That would be the zoning administrator who would be responsible for that.

McDougal: I’m just curious, the reason I’m saying is, on the measuring of the sound, at 65 decibel is loud speech, at 85 is like a washing machine. That’s pretty low decibels. For him to have it on the deck, it’s going to be impossible to keep the decibels down. If you allow him to have it, you’ve got to know the decibels are going to be up. As long as you’re aware of that, the people that live near, it is in a residential area. So the residential area, he’s 15 houses away from Dyke Road. The only one it’s going to really affect is probably three canals either way, but it’s all the residential area. The food, I mean, I would definitely grant him, if he wanted to expand for the food, but the only thing is policing on how loud the music is going to go. You’re not going to be able to satisfy the people on that, there’s no way you can. Not with the air, just the basic electronics now are going to be a lot higher, a lot louder than on small equipment. I don’t know how you can physically check that every time, there’s not going to be a police office with a decibel, that’s where I think you’re going to get the problems. He’s going to have a lot of nuisance calls just because people are going to complain for having the music. The police have a lot better things to do than chasing noise. That’s the only thing that I worry about. As far as the food and cleaning up for the shed and the outhouses and stuff like that, I think he’s doing a great job, but you’ve gotta draw the line on at something. I hope that he does expand and that he does well, and his food speaks for itself, but what kind of crowd are you going to bring with the music? I don’t know. I don’t know what kind of music he’s trying to bring in, what crowd are you trying to appease? Will it be a younger crowd or an older crowd? That’s just some of the other issues on it, but that’s just something to look into on policing the noise. It’s going to be close to impossible. As far as us buying, that building has been vacant when I bought it and I understand it being a restaurant it never had outdoor music when we bought it, all the people around there, I don’t believe that it ever had outdoor music did it? So the people around there know what they were buying and they know what they have, this is something new. So that’s it.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Thank you.

Meagher: Madam Chair, just to advise the commission the ordinance performance standards allow up to 70 decibels at the property line.

Chairperson DeBoyer: 70 decibels at the property line.

Meagher: Now that’s through the zoning ordinance, as you said, the noise ordinance may have another set of criteria.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Okay.

McDougal: At the 70 decibels, do you know what that is? I’m just curious because I have a graph here and I pulled it up: 75 is a washing machine, 85 is busy city traffic.

Meagher: Noise is measured differently at night versus day. Noise carries much more at night than during the day. The 70 decibels would be a loud conversation basically.

Chairperson DeBoyer: The gentleman back here.

Antonio Giangrande – 7870 Inglewood: I’ve lived there about 18 years and I’m right across from the boathouse, which is three houses down from the bar and the noise now is greater than any faction that has been in there, there has been five factions there. And the question for us isn’t about outside music, the question is they say they’re coming with a restaurant that’s going to be upscale. Well, let’s look at catch-22. The music never gets over probably 30 decibels there, ever. This is not a restaurant, this is a nightclub. When you’re woke up at 1:30-2 in the morning by the BOOM, BOOM, BOOM of a subwoofer of a big stereo system by an entertainer, that’s big noise. On top of which, is the noise after the bar, which I’ve grown to accept because I live across from it and some nights it’s bad and some nights it isn’t. Most of the time, the owners before you could call and say hey it’s too loud and they would actually turn it down. We have no contact with these guys and I don’t know if they would turn it down or if they wouldn’t but if the police are showing up and they’re still not turning it down or they’re turning it back up, that’s a problem. So the problem to me is, if they’re already violating code now for decibels at late night, who’s to say that they’re going to follow any type of guidelines outside during the day on the weekends? I mean, when I heard that this was coming up, all of a sudden the music went down for about a week or two, it wasn’t as loud, because they were setting up for this, and that’s understandable, but the bottom line is that it’s loud over there, it’s loud every weekend, it’s way too loud, it’s louder than it’s ever been there and they have no concern about their neighbors. On top of which now they want this outside venue. I wouldn’t mind if it was an acoustical guitar and a guy singing without any amperage, no mic, guitar, just simple vocal. That I wouldn’t have a problem with, and that I don’t have a problem with at all. Why I’m here tonight is the noise from 12 o’clock to 3 o’clock in the morning BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, that’s a problem. That’s all I have to say.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Thank you. Yes.

Dale Sterling - 9427 Island Drive: I’ve lived there for 24 years. The whole time I’ve lived up here, I’ve always wondered why we don’t have a place, we have the lake and the water, where we can go to like this. My friends, they come across the lake on a boat, they got a place to go, be nice to go on vacation. You go to Florida, you go to Texas, you go to Hawaii, we all go out to places like that, we can sit outside and enjoy it. We don’t have a place like that and for 24 years here I’ve wondered. Every time somebody tried it, it gets shot down and most of those places don’t even exist right now. That’s all I gotta say.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Thank you.

Darryl Geldof – 7904 Inglewood: I live directly across from the Sandbar. Right now, I’ve got a 7-year-old son, a wife in college. We don’t sleep on Friday nights, Saturday nights. It’s extremely loud. I’m about contacting somebody to turn it down. I try not to make waves or anything, but it’s already out of control. St. Patty’s Day, I know a lot of people want to party, but that day really started off for me where I started watching them. A boat comes in with a load speaker, you know that’s fine, they’re blaring their music, that’s cool. As the day went on, but as it went to night it got ridiculous, now I want to go to bed. I’m not up partying, I gotta work the next day. Yeah, it’s Sunday I do construction. These guys are out there with their air horns or whatever, these loud sirens. I go out there to take a look and there’s people urinating off the back of boats. I see they want to expand the restrooms, I see why, people are peeing off the boats because there’s probably a lineup to pee inside, okay I see that. We’re not here to shut down a business, it is good business. We eat there. These other residents that don’t live close are concerned about the place going under, but it’s not going to affect your business that much if you don’t have outside entertainment, I think they’re doing good as it is. The parking lot is packed all the time. But like the one speaker before, the other guy up the street, 2-3 in the morning these guys get out of the bar and they’re hooting and hollering and my dog sleeps with me and she gets up, what’s this hooting and hollering and she’s bouncing across me and wants to get me up to see what’s going on and I get up at 5 in the morning to go to my construction work and it’s keeping the whole family up basically. So my opinion is no for the outside entertainment, yes to everything else. Keep the business going strong. Like I said, we love the food, it is very good. We’re not trying to hurt the business, we just don’t want the noise to go louder than it is basically. Thank you.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Thank you. Anyone else? Yes ma’am.

Linda Decker – 7497 Zobl Court: Four doors down. Since he has taken over the place, one of the things that bothers me is the flood lights have gotten a lot brighter that shine into my yard. I don’t like that and in the summertime it does bring in more boats. We’re getting the overflow from Munchie’s Bay right out in front of our place and the sound carries from the water onto the land horribly. We hear what they’re saying, conversations, everything. So if he’s bringing in entertainment, that’s going to bring in more boats and stuff and a lot of them just park out there and walk on it and see where they can get up the seawall and I just don’t want it. We’ve got $300,000 wrapped into the house and there’re several houses along Zobl Court that we’ve all put a lot of money into and we don’t want the depreciation and that’s what will happen if it just turns out being a bar where everybody hangs out. They yell across now if I’m just mowing the yard. I don’t understand. The alcohol brings out the party in everybody, but we live there, we don’t want to be partying every day of the week. If we want to party, we’ll invite people into our home to party and we don’t want to hear everybody else partying. I mean nothing against the restaurant, but we’re just not big party people. We like the tranquility on the lake. Thank you.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Thank you. Yes ma’am.

Lori Baker – 7288 Bluebill: I just want to say, first of all, I imagine the decibels that are load at a marina might be just a bit different than a restaurant and again, the sound might be an issue, but when you live by a marina you’re going to have boat motors and you’re going to have a lot of noise. The beauty of them having music on the patio might be that the music will end at dark because when the mosquitoes come, as you all know because you live here, nobody will be outside. So, I’m imagining this to go to about dusk and maybe it’ll be a better thing for the people who need rest in the night that moved by a marina and a restaurant. Maybe they’ll have entertainment that goes until dusk and then at night there won’t be entertainment. And maybe people will come and enjoy their boats and the lake with the music before dark. So, I’m totally in support of the whole music thing on the deck because it sounds like it’s going to be more like acoustical music and lighter music. I’m looking forward to it and I think it might bring an age group that would enjoy that, which might not be the rock and rollers. Thank you.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Thank you.

Sean McLean – 7495 Dyke Rd.: Granted I share the same canal as the Sandbar but I’m at the opposite end. I do approve of the outdoor entertainment. That does consist of eating outside and drinking outside on a deck, correct? In this license?

Chairperson DeBoyer: That’s approved, that they can eat outside.

McLean: Right, okay. Why would I want to go to a bar that has a nice outside deck with a million dollar view and be stuck on the inside as opposed to just coming outside. Yes, he wants an acoustic guitar, that sounds fine to me. I just don’t see the big issue with it. That’s all I gotta say.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Okay. If there is no one else, we do have a couple of letters that we have received for comment.

This one says: This letter is in response to the letter that we received regarding Smoke on the Bay restaurant. We are adamantly opposed to their request for outdoor seating and live entertainment on an outdoor patio area. The bar has an inside band stand for their entertainment and music can still be heard from our home, which is three houses down the canal. Even with the inside entertainment as it stands now, we have witnessed a male patron urinating off the back of boats in the boat wells designated for the bar and also against the back of the building. We asked one gentleman to please use the interior restroom and his comment to us was simply, “The world is my urinal.” and just continued to urinate without any concern to the neighborhood. This incident happened in broad daylight. We can only imagine how pathetic the situation would be if they are allowed to entertain outdoors. Best regards, William and Karen Odam - 7840 Inglewood.

Dear Commissioners: We are writing in support of this application. We have on several occasions eaten at Smoke on the Bay and find it to be a fine establishment. Each time the food was great, the ambience lovely, and the staff courteous, competent and friendly. The restaurant is a credit to our community. Clay Township is a boating community. The preponderance of bars and restaurants along M29 draw patrons who enjoy the St. Clair River, Lake St. Clair and the activities made possible by those great bodies of water. To our way of thinking, the opportunity to enjoy a meal and entertainment on a patio overlooking Anchor Bay on a fine summer day is a pleasure beyond compare. The lively business done on the xxxx restaurant Tiki Bar down the road in Ira Township is positive proof that we are not alone in our feelings. Why not bring more of that business here? Please approve this application. It will be good for Smoke on the Bay restaurant and for Clay Township. Sincerely, Ronald and Sally Ragon – 7285 Flamingo, Clay Township.

Chairperson DeBoyer: This letter is in response to the NLN Properties request for Special Land Use at the restaurant and marina: I am forwarding the following response to the Planning Commission for your review and prerogative. The requested 13 x 15 addition to the restaurant does not appear to be a problem for law enforcement as long as it meets the Liquor Control Commission requirements and the American Disability Act requirements. The 10 x 10 shed and the 140 x 85 storage building is not a problem for law enforcement. Traffic patterns and requirements do not appear to be a problem. From a law enforcement perspective, there is a major concern for the related outside second bar and request for outside entertainment. Over the years, and several land owners located at this location, there have been numerous noise complaints from residential neighbors in this area. The noise complaints pertain to music and entertainment coming from inside the location and officers had to respond on numerous occasions. If allowed to have outside entertainment or pipe music to the outside, I expect the neighbors to once again complain of the noise. The water magnifies the sound and the residents have complained of the inability to sleep on work nights. This also includes an outside service bar and the potential for noise. As the Chief of Police, I am recommending that the outside service bar and entertainment request be denied. I will also share my concerns with the Liquor Control Commission when requested to recommend approval or disapproval for the expansion of the liquor license. If there are any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Chief Drake.

Chairperson DeBoyer: If there are no other public comments, if the applicant would like to have a final comment.

Rhodes: We’re concerned about the concerns of the community also. But as has been mentioned, it is a marina and a restaurant facility. To date, there has no violation of the noise ordinance, according to the law enforcement group. They have never issued any type of warning or citation. They don’t inform the restaurant that they’re coming to turn the music down or anything of that nature. They show up when there’s a complaint and they are trained and they understand and they evaluate the situation, and they have not issued any warnings or any citations or anything to that nature. So it is their opinion that it was not a problem. The marina and restaurant do not have any control over boaters. We all understand that. That’s not our problem. We do appreciate the comments of the neighbors and we take those all under consideration and we want to make them happy, we want to appease them also. We’re saying the music out on the deck is going to be low key, soft music. It’s not going to have a band out there and we will live by that. Anyway, you know basically where we stand. We will abide by whatever the Planning Commission decides and we hope that you will approve the entertainment for the deck and we look forward to your decision. Thank you.

Rudy: I’ve been there every time the police have come by and they come in the back door, they don’t like coming in the front door, they don’t think people like them, so they come in the back door and they ask for me and I go and see them in the kitchen and I said “Is there a problem?” and they say “No, we’ve been outside, it’s not loud, it’s fine.” “Are you giving me a warning?” “No, I’m not even telling you to turn it down. Someone called, we’re responding to a call, that’s what we have to do.” If there was a problem, they would be telling me that there’s a problem and they’re not. I would hope the residents know that I’m just across the way, you can call me. I’ve never gotten a call from one person. I am approachable, I’m a nice man, I will do whatever I can. Music out on the deck, it’s like sitting having lunch and you hear a little background music. That’s all I’m asking, that it’s not dead quiet sitting out on the deck. And if there’s decibel ordinances, I will adhere to whatever you tell me to adhere to. That’s why they’re set up. I’m not looking to have concerts outside and get crazy. When the night comes, everybody goes inside, the air conditioner is on and the windows are shut. Now if it’s too loud in the ordinance, I don’t know what to say, what am I supposed to do at that point? Not do it, no. I’m in my legal right and I’ll do whatever I can for everybody. Thank you.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Thank you. It is now 8:30 and we will close the public hearing at this time because we are going to have an amended site plan, I would recommend to the Planning Commission that we do not make any determination until we have that for the entire Planning Commission to review.

Simon: So moved.

Cahill: Support.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Okay, we have a motion and support to not make a decision at this time, to wait until we have the amended site plan submitted to us and have an opportunity to review that.

Antkowiak: I would also like to point out under discussion of this particular motion, that that is pretty much what we do. I mean, we have a lot of information and so it is to our advantage to continue to look at this, even if you didn’t have a site plan that was not revised, so that we could take into consideration the comments and the various standards and the ordinances we have to deal with and I would just again support that motion.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Any other comments or discussion by the Planning Commission? If not, all in favor? It will be discussed at a future time, once we have all of the information available to us and our decision will be made then. The meeting is not adjourned, the Planning Commission will continue on with their agenda.

AYES: All NAYS: None

MOTION CARRIED.

6. PLANNING CONSULTANT’S REPORT:

Chairperson DeBoyer: Mr. Meagher, do you have any reports for us?

Patrick Meagher: Madam Chair, just that xxxx next meeting…

Chairperson DeBoyer: Could you please take your conversations out into the foyer out there? We are continuing with our Planning Commission.

Meagher: We’re not quite prepared tonight. We wanted to bring you the full master plan. I want to get everyone fresh copies so we’re not dealing with piecing together what we have. Hopefully we’ll have that for, I don’t know if you’re going to be meeting the

Simon: Second Wednesday.

Meagher: Yeah. xxxx second Wednesday xxxx

Chairperson DeBoyer: Probably about the 10th, no that’s an old one.

Kreuger: Will we have a complete copy for the public hearing?

Meagher: Definitely. I don’t want to piece this together. There’s been some criticism as to how things relate to each other and what I’d like to do is just get one document and then everyone will have complete copies and put it on the web and then I’ll do a full presentation to the public again and hopefully get this thing off the ground. I certainly don’t want to leave it open to nitpicking. And I say nitpicking and it’s really not, but if you don’t have the complete document in front of you, it may look like it, and I think it makes sense to have the entire document in front of everyone. We’ve done a lot of work on the maps, lots of work on the maps and it has not been an easy task putting everything together, but it’s pretty much together at this point. I think it’s just a question now of bringing it back to the commission, making sure everyone is happy with some of the language changes, particularly in terms of descriptions of the districts and designations. If we’re all happy with that, we’ll reset another public hearing and then go forward.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Okay. Thank you.

Simon: One question, can you make a digital copy available?

Meagher: Oh, absolutely. I think the township has been very much forward in terms of getting that put on the internet, so I’m sure they’ll do the same for this draft. I don’t want to speak for you Tom, but it seems like that was very accessible.

Kreuger: No. We get one every time it’s available and throw it on the website.

Meagher: So, yeah, we’ll definitely provide that.

7. ZBA REPRESENTATIVE’S REPORT:

Vice-Chairman Antkowiak: Just a couple of things. Number 1, we are losing one of our members, John Chamberlain, he is moving to Florida of all places, and it’s my understanding that our alternate will move up into his position and then of course we’ll still be in need of another alternate or two. So if we can pass that word around to the community that would be very nice. The other thing I was told by Patty that we have at least six variance requests already in the works and it looks like it’s going to be kind of a busy year. We also have several building permits that have been submitted, so looks like we’re going to busy for a while and hopefully the community will improve in terms of more building and things happening like that.

8. CHAIRPERSON’S REPORT:

Chairperson DeBoyer: There is really nothing new to report. I wondered if anyone else on the commission had received information on the conference that is going to be held over in East Lansing in June.

Simon: Would you like to see the postcard?

Chairperson DeBoyer: I have one, thank you. Anybody thinking about going over there?

Cahill: When in June was it, I forgot now?

Chairperson DeBoyer: I didn’t bring the postcard with me. June 7 and 8. It’s a day and a half.

Holcomb: Is that a Friday and Saturday or?

Krueger: Thursday and Friday I believe.

Chairperson DeBoyer: The 7th and 8th are a Thursday and a Friday.

Cahill: What is the cost of it?

Chairperson DeBoyer: If you are not a master citizen planner, its $110; for the master citizen planners it’s $95.

Krueger: That’s the opposite of what it should be. You should encourage more master planners and give them a break.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Well, this is for people who are not master planners. It is being co-hosted by Michigan Citizen Planner, The School of Planning Design and Construction and the MSU Extension.

Cahill: Can we get any discounts for going or anything?

Chairperson DeBoyer: Only if you’re a master citizen planner.

Simon: Or if you live in the tri-county area surrounding the school.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Well then they offer a scholarship that you have to apply for. And when it says tri-county, I expected our area, but it’s not.

Krueger: Does the township usually pick those up?

Chairperson DeBoyer: Sometimes. They haven’t always, but sometimes they do. It would have to go to the board.

Krueger: If somebody is interested in going, I’d be happy to take it to the board to see if they’ll pick up part or all.

Cahill: I’m interested, but I sure don’t have the money.

Chairperson DeBoyer: I’m really planning on going, I have not sent my application in, but I really would like to go.

Cahill: So would I.

Schweikart: For both days or just one?

Chairperson DeBoyer: It’s a day and a half.

Schweikart: Because I know in the past we’ve picked different times maybe.

Simon: You get 0.6 credits.

Schweikart: I think some more continuing education credits because they give you like two years to maintain, that’s why I’m thinking I need to attend. For numerous reasons, but that’s one of them.

Meagher: Do they offer the credits online, the continuing education?

Chairperson DeBoyer: I haven’t seen anything.

Schweikart: I haven’t seen anything recently. Good point though.

Meagher: I know for our field they’ve been offering more and more online.

Schweikart: I’ll check.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Back in the winter there was one, but I haven’t seen one since.

Schweikart: I was going to say that was the last time I’ve seen one, but I’ll double check. If I find out anything useful, I’ll pass it along.

Chairperson DeBoyer: If you would take it to the board that would be good.

Cahill: I’d like to go.

Krueger: Can I make a copy of that?

9. PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS COMMENTS:

Krueger: This has nothing to do with tonight, but there were a couple of changes that were made to the DDA document. They just moved a couple of numbers around on the list of projects and dollars that were attached to them. Did you get those changes?

Meagher: I haven’t received anything, no.

Krueger: Alright, well after this is over I’ll get them for you.

Meagher: Tom, let the DDA know that any type of amendments we want to make beyond that we’ll be happy to work with them, the time frame was so short in putting that together. Whatever they want to do.

Krueger: I think that was about it. The public hearing for that is for May 7th, so when I get those changes I’d like to get at least one or two back before that meeting.

Krueger: I was told I should comment on this, on the ticket situation. I think, I’ve been told by our attorney, the expenses aren’t illegal expenses. There is some kind of statute out there that allows townships to compensate for commuting expenses on for tolls, up to $125 a month. I think they specifically mention ferry fees, I’m not sure, but tolls or ferry fees. I don’t have a letter yet from McNamee about that, but will get one pretty soon. But that doesn’t mean that we’re still going to reimburse expenses for the ferry tickets until there is a board action one way or another, so this is still kind of in limbo.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Who is that from?

Krueger: That’s from Lisa White.

Antkowiak: Is that specifically for the board members or was that for any person?

Krueger: Anybody on any of the boards or commissions.

Antkowiak: Because it was kind of vague as to what.

Krueger: No, it was meant for everyone.

Antkowiak: Well, the interesting part of it, I would consider that people who are on the commissions who have to go to the island, are doing that based on what they need to do in order to fully know what to do if there is a request.

Krueger: Well, there is some differentiation in the law, if somebody is on the mainland and he has a piece of property to look at for the ZBA and he has to go to the island, that is considered an ordinary necessary business expense that is absolutely reimbursable. But the thing was, everybody was kind of using mileage and commuting as part of the issue because board members, township board members were getting the tickets also when they come over from Harsens Island. That was the biggest issue. Lisa kind of went off half cocked, I think and did all this. She sent it to the attorney and didn’t wait for the attorney to come back and my discussions with the attorney, contradict what she’s saying here and ultimately like I told her, it should be a board action, but we’re just going to have to wait until the next board meeting when we get the letter and then we’ll make a decision at the board level what to do. Either continue doing it, because it had been a practice, I know it’s been a practice for over 25-30 years, and so we’ll just make that decision and make it formally at the board level next meeting.

Chairperson DeBoyer: I agree with you, it should be board level decision.

Krueger: Absolutely. Although I did ask that the attorney that, and he said no she has the right to do that because she has the responsibility, she is the payroll clerk, if she considered it to be additional compensation, she was within her right to scrap it. I still think she went about it the wrong way, in my opinion. But hey, everybody makes little mistakes.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Any other Planning Commission comments?

Cahill: Are we going to get one of those little trains for our park?

Krueger: No. That has never been discussed.

Cahill: Okay. Because I saw one in Cottrellville, really cute.

Krueger: No, I don’t think that’s in the works. We’re talking about another pavilion, like we have over there. We have one. That thing is jammed up all summer already.

Cahill: Yeah, they have two at Cottrellville.

Krueger: Yeah, and the design calls for another one in front of it and so we’re looking at doing that and then the design also calls for some smaller pavilions in the two far corners. But, we’re looking at either the big pavilion here and then maybe one of the smaller ones, or just the big pavilion, we don’t know. The DDA also authorized putting, we have lights on the basketball / ice rink thing over there and it was suggested that we put another light on one of the poles and just turn it around in back of it and shine it down on the volleyball court. So we’re going to light up the volleyball court a little bit, so people, if they want in the summertime they can go out there and pound the volleyball around.

Chairperson DeBoyer: It would be nice if there were some lighting on the paths too.

Kruger: Well, we discussed that. We do have to do that. Also, somehow designating how far you’ve strolled around that path. We also, you know haven’t just sat on our hands. We’ve been putting additional disposal units around and benches over by the basketball courts and skating rink so people can sit down and rest or sit down and put their skates on or whatever they do and so all of that has been talked about and will progress throughout the summer.

Chairperson DeBoyer: Good. It appears to be something the community really appreciates and enjoys.

Krueger: The community enjoys it, it’s in demand. I guess we had a bunch of bus drivers over there over the weekend and their families and it was packed, everybody told me.

Antkowiak: Weren’t they distributing food?

Krueger: I don’t know what they were doing.

Antkowiak: You’re talking about the public school bus drivers?

Krueger: Yeah.

Antkowiak: I understood that they were distributing food or going to distribute food.

Krueger: Well, I wasn’t aware of that, but there was a bunch of them over there.

Antkowiak: xxxx that they were able to distribute, which I think is fabulous.

Chairperson DeBoyer: It’s a good thing anyway.

10. PUBLIC COMMENTS:

Chairperson DeBoyer: Any public comments? And this is not an extension of the public hearing we had, it would be public comments on any other things. If not, I will entertain a motion for adjournment.

11. ADJOURNMENT:

Motion made by Holcomb, supported by Antkowiak to adjourn the meeting at 8:50 p.m.

AYES: All NAYS: None

MOTION CARRIED.

Respectfully Submitted,

Victoria Brobst Dorothy DeBoyer, Chairperson

Recording Secretary Clay Township Planning Commission

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