Joint Sunset Committee



Joint Sunset Committee

Tuesday, March 10, 2009, 5:00 pm

House Chamber, Legislative Hall

Minutes - Public Hearings

Delaware State Fire Prevention Commission

Office of the State Fire Marshal

Delaware State Fire School

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JSC and Staff: Sen. David Sokola, Chair; Rep. John Kowalko, Vice-Chair; Sen. Brian Bushweller; Sen. Colin Bonini; Sen. Michael Katz; Rep. John Atkins; Rep. Bradford Bennett; Rep. Clifford Lee; Debbie Puzzo, JSC Executive Director; Judi Abbott, Legislative Council staff.

Absence: Sen. Dorinda Connor; Rep. Pamela Thornburg

In attendance: Sen. Bruce Ennis; Elizabeth Carey; Warren Jones, DVFA; Sherry Lambertson, DSFPC; Bob Ricker, DSFPC; Douglas Murray, DSFPC; Marvin Sharp, DSFPC; Kevin Wilson, DVFA; Jim Cubbage, DVFA; Bill Tobin, DVFA; Allen Metheny, DVFA; Grover Ingle, DE State Fire Marshal; Mike Chalmers, News Journal; Patrick Jackson, News Journal; Bill Betts, DSFPC; David Roberts, DSFPC; Ronald Marvel, DSFPC; Robert Newnam, DSFS; Alan Robinson, Jr., DVFA; Stuart Lindner, AWCI; Kirsten Higgins, Tidewater; Gerard Esposito, Tidewater; Kenneth Branner, AWCI; Adam Gould, Artesian; James L. Cubbage, Jr., DVFA; Allison Reardon, DAG

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Agenda:

I. Welcome

II. Approval of minutes

2/3/09 Inactive Boards/Commissions/Councils

2/3/09 Violent Crimes Compensation Board

2/18/09 Commission on Adult Entertainment Establishments

III. Overview of the Sunset Process (JSC Chair)

( Opening Comments by the Delaware State Fire Prevention Commission

( Question and Answer with JSC

IV. Public Comments (3 minutes per person)

V. Concluding remarks (JSC)

VI. Overview of the Sunset Process (JSC Chair)

( Opening Comments by the Office of the State Fire Marshall

( Question and Answer with JSC

VII. Public Comments (3 minutes per person)

VIII. Concluding remarks (JSC)

IX. Overview of the Sunset Process (JSC Chair)

( Opening Comments by the Delaware State Fire School

( Question and Answer with JSC

X. Public Comments (3 minutes per person)

XI. Concluding remarks (JSC)

XII. Adjournment

Sen. Sokola called the meeting to order at 5:10 p.m.

I. Welcome

Sen. Sokola welcomed everyone and thanked them for attending.

II. Approval of minutes

2/3/09 Inactive Boards/Commissions/Councils

There was a Motion and a second to accept the Minutes from the February 3rd JSC Public Hearing on the Inactive Boards, Commissions, and Councils. There was a voice vote. The Motion carried unanimously.

2/3/09 Violent Crimes Compensation Board

There was a Motion and a second to accept the Minutes from the February 3rd JSC Public Hearing on the Violent Crimes Compensation Board. There was a voice vote. The Motion carried unanimously.

2/18/09 Commission on Adult Entertainment Establishments

There was a Motion and a second to accept the Minutes from the February 18th JSC Public Hearing on the Commission on Adult Entertainment Establishments. There was a voice vote. The Motion carried unanimously.

III. Overview of the Sunset Process (JSC Chair)

Sen. Sokola provided an overview of the JSC as well as the review process. The State Fire Prevention Commission will have an opportunity to address the Committee and then the Committee members will ask questions. The Committee will meet with the Commission at a later date to discuss suggested recommendations.

( Opening Comments by the Delaware State Fire Prevention Commission

Mr. Sharp serves as chairman of the DE State Fire Prevention Commission. He represents Kent County Industry and is serving his first term. Mr. Sharp introduced the other Commissioners. Vice Chairman Ricker, Commissioner Roberts, Ms. Lambertson and Ms. Reardon were responsible for gathering and compiling all of the requested JSC information.

Mr. Ricker made the following comments:

As we continue in the journey into the next 50 years of public service, the Fire Prevention Commission faces many challenges and the continued support and oversight of the Office of the DE State Fire Marshall, the DE State Fire School, and our precious volunteer and career fire service. One of the challenges most pressing is the evolution of a volunteer fire service into a combination service. During your deliberations, please consider that the demands placed upon today's fire and emergency medical services can no longer be placed upon today's men and women who can't just take off work at a moments notice or skip another little league practice. Part of that demand will have to be placed upon men and women who are choosing to make a career in firefighting and emergency medicine. Additionally, our firefighters are being called upon to deliver services a few years ago that were unheard of. Services such as post explosion firefighting, chemicals, such as anthrax, being used against firefighters, and firefighters actually becoming a target for terrorists against our country. With that said, no doubt the Commission's vision of increased oversight of the fire service will come into question during this and other meetings. But please understand, it is not more control that the Commission wishes, but rather a concerted effort between the Commission, the Delaware Volunteer Firemen's Association, and the rank and file of the fire service, to deliver even higher service to the citizens of Delaware.

The Commission would like to thank the Committee for taking the time to provide oversight and guidance to the many commissions and boards in Delaware and to ensure that the citizens are being served in a fiscally responsible manner. We would also like to acknowledge the countless hours that Debbie Puzzo has dedicated gathering information on the complex and sometimes confusing world of the Fire Commission. Commissioner Roberts and I are here to answer any questions, to provide insight and clarity of the many mysteries that surround the Fire Commission.

Although the Commission has been called many things, the Fire Commission, the Fire Prevention Commission, the State Fire Commission, and a couple of other things we shouldn't mention in mixed company, one word is synonymous with the Fire Commission and that is dedication. The faces that you see before you are a group of men and women who now and have always been totally dedicated to health and wellbeing of very man, woman, and child in Delaware and has done so since 1955 with no compensation, except for the knowledge that we have played a small part in making Delaware a safe and wonderful place to live and raise a family. Once again, I would like to take the time to thank you all as well for the time that you put in to the State. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

( Question and Answer with JSC

Sen. Sokola asked for a ballpark number with regard to the number of people who are “employed” in the volunteer service. Mr. Ricker stated that he does not have an exact number.

The Committee reviewed the Draft Report page by page. (If the page number is not included in these Minutes, there wasn’t any discussion regarding the info contained on that page.)

Pages 6 & 7 of the Draft Report.

Sen. Bushweller stated that he has been an admirer of the Delaware Fire Service for going on 15 or 16 years He stated:

… Governor Carper originally asked me to be a liaison between the Carper administration and the fire service, and to be very frank, at that point, I didn't know much about the Delaware Fire Service, but during the Carper administration when I served in that capacity, and then as Secretary of Public Safety when I got into a lot more specific kinds of issues, including some that were somewhat controversial and difficult at the time. I just developed a great deal of respect for what the fire service does in Delaware. That includes the volunteer aspect of the fire service as well as the various people who are in paid positions, whether it is the Fire Marshal's office, the Fire School, the DVFA, or whoever else it might be, so I am just going to own up to that bias. But having that bias doesn't prevent me, I think, from being objective ...

Sen. Bushweller asked what the Commission thinks about the possibility of having public representation on the Commission.

Mr. Ricker replied that the Commission would welcome public input or a public member. One of the draw backs of that would be that some of the issues that the Commission deals with are knowledge intensive regarding what the fire service is about and how the fire service works in Delaware. Delaware is the only state in the Union whose Capitol is protected by volunteer firefighters.

Sen. Bushweller stated that there are 3 members of the Commission who represent Industry. Currently the industry representatives are also members of local fire companies, and therefore involved in the same way that the other 3 members of the Commission are involved, since the other 3 members are chosen from the fire service. The Senator asked whether this is an issue.

Mr. Ricker stated that it is not an issue. The industry reps that are on the Commission look at issues that come before the Commission from an industry perspective along with specific knowledge about fire service in Delaware.

Sen. Sokola said that typically Delaware’s boards have one third public members and many of these boards deal with fairly technical information. For example there are public members on the Board of Medical Practice. If you look at the mission statements, it’s about protecting the public health, safety, and welfare so that's one of the reasons to add a healthy amount of public input to the discussion. The Senator stated that he likes to keep the number of members an odd number, and maintain a geographic and political balance.

Mr. Ricker stated that the Commission is recommending that a member include an individual from the medical community since a majority of the fire services duties revolve around emergency medicine. Not necessarily an EMT, because that person is more than likely going to have fire service ties.

Pages 8 & 9 of the Draft Report.

Sen. Bushweller noted that on page 8 it states: "Ambulance inspections and enforcement should come from the Commission." The Senator asked what kind of inspections.

Mr. Ricker replied that the Commission's ambulance regulations list equipment that is required to be carried on ambulances and that each of the emergency medicine providers in Delaware must be certified and carry a card stating such. During the ambulance inspections, the ambulance itself is inspected for its safety, belts, and equipment, as well as the people who are manning that unit. Currently the Commission asks the Fire School to perform the annual ambulance inspections since the Commission cannot do them with one staff member.

Also in the ambulance regulations implemented as a result of HB #332, if a complaint is turned into the Fire Commission or to the County Medical Directors, there has to be some investigation done to find out if the complaint is justified. One of the Commissioners performs that investigation. If there is subsequent disciplinary action and then a subsequent appeal, that Commissioner would have to recuse himself , as he may have gathered information during his investigation that makes him ineligible to make a fair and just decision.

Sen. Bushweller asked whether the Commissioner’s role in the investigation of a complaint is set by statute or whether the role has evolved over time perhaps because of lack of staff or other reasons.

Mr. Ricker replied that the Commissioners are involved due to lack of staff. There have been discussions with the medical community about having a Hearing Officer. Typical complaints are for falsification of reports and patient care reports and occasionally complaints of rushed care.

Sen. Bushweller referred to the 3rd to the last bullet under the Power and Duties of the Commission on page 8: "Complete jurisdiction and management over the State Fire School and the Office of State Fire Marshal." The Senator asked whether the Commission has jurisdiction over the curriculum that the Fire School offers.

Mr. Ricker replied “yes,” however most of the time the Director of the Fire School brings requests for curriculum changes to the Commission. The Commission invariably allows him to change the curriculum. As a practical matter, the curriculum is a responsibility of the school. As a technical matter, the Commission has jurisdiction over it.

Mr. Ricker stated the statute regarding audits of volunteer fire and ambulance companies became effective in January 2009.

Sen. Sokola asked how many fire companies did audits prior to HB329. Mr. Ricker replied that he is not sure of the number however, Mr. Roberts stated that he believes the majority of the companies met that standard.

Sen. Bushweller referenced the bullets on page 9: "Authorizing and assigning ambulance districts" and also "Overseeing discontinuation of service by ambulance providers". The Senator asked for a general assessment, specifically with regard to EMS, as to how well things are going now “in terms of the solidity of all the ambulance companies, whether they are fire companies or other volunteer companies that provide ambulance services. The reliability in terms of, are they able to keep going – do we have some that are precarious, either financially, volunteer wise and are we facing the possibility anywhere of loosing an ambulance service?”

Mr. Ricker replied that “each and every fire company has commented in the past of the amount of money that it takes to run basically a paid ambulance service. There are some fire companies who actually say that they will make a profit running their ambulance that year, and some of them will comment that they loose several thousand dollars a year.” A majority of the work that is done today in the fire service is rescue work and EMS work. They are realizing that the EMS business is a very viable part of the fire service and they are starting to change some of their spending patterns and investing patterns so that more money is being invested in the EMS sector instead of going towards fire service duties.

Pages 10 & 11 of the Draft Report.

Sen. Sokola asked whether volunteer firemen are requited to have criminal background checks. Mr. Ricker replied that statute mandates that each and every member who joins a fire department must fill out an affidavit swearing that they have not committed a specific set of crimes and that affidavit has to be notarized and turned in with that application to that fire department. That fire department must retain that affidavit for the entire membership period of the individual.

Sen. Sokola stated that background checks show whether an individual has been charged and not just convicted. The Senator stated that this information can be valuable for a volunteer fire company.

Mr. Ricker stated that every one of the EMT providers in Delaware must have a criminal background check. Fire service does not require background checks. Two reasons: it takes money and it takes time. The Commission has been talking about strengthening the affidavit statute.

Ms. Reardon (DAG said that the statute requires that the affidavit says that they have not been convicted.

Sen. Sokola suggested adding “haven’t been charged” to the statute

Mr. Sharp stated that the problem that exists is that if you pass the background check and then you are convicted later on, there is nothing the Fire Commission can do whether it is for EMS, Fire, Administration or bookkeepers.

Mr. Ricker added that there were issues in the past in which a volunteer fireman had been charged with a serious crime and his fire company continued to allow him to serve because their bylaws didn't address that issue.

Sen. Sokola pointed out that under Challenges it states that the Commission doesn’t have sufficient enforcement powers. So even if there were rules and regulations regarding the above situation, if that fire company ignored the regs, the Commission could not take any action. The Senator asked whether the Commission has looked into what is done in other jurisdictions as far as the ability for enforcement powers. Certainly, the issue of decertification could be a double-edged sword.

Mr. Ricker replied that decertification works well with the EMS community but decertification is not used for firefighters in Delaware.

Sen. Bushweller asked whether there should be minimum training requirements that are applied uniformly across the State?

Mr. Ricker stated that last year the Commission began to draft minimum standards for the Fire Chief, firefighter, the underling officers, the Deputy Chief, the President, Secretary, and Treasurer. Three Commissioners and 2 fire service people from each county, appointed by DVFA, will meet to establish minimum standards for firefighters in Delaware. The fire service is changing from a volunteer service into a combination service which involves labor issues that a volunteer President or a volunteer Fire Chief may not necessarily be used to dealing with. Many fire companies already have minimum standards for Fire Chiefs, and for Deputy Chiefs, Assistant Chiefs and firefighters, however, very few have any minimum standards for the President or other administrative officers.

Sen. Sokola stated that within the last couple of years school board members have been required to get formal training after a couple of schools got into financial trouble. There is a specific component around finances that was put together by the Dept. of Education and adopted by the State Board of Education. The Committee will be looking to the Commission to figure out the training topics. Mr. Ricker stated that the Commission would welcome formal training.

Sen. Bonini asked Mr. Ricker to list some of those minimum qualifications and to state the current baseline minimum qualifications for a typical firefighter.

Mr. Ricker replied that they have discussed basic firefighting skills, structural firefighting skills and vehicular rescue skills. These are things the rank and file firefighter has to have to safely do his job - for him and the people he may be rescuing. As far as administrative things, the Fire School has a basic course for administrative officers. The Commission would like to include instruction regarding labor laws – something that has to do with the oversight of an employee versus oversight of a volunteer. There are already some standards out there that many of the fire companies are currently meeting for the Fire Chiefs and Deputy Fire Chiefs.

Sen. Bonini asked if there are companies and firefighters who are not meeting those minimum standards on basic rescue training and basic firefighting skills.

Mr. Ricker replied that there are not a lot. He clarified that he is referencing elective classes, over and above the basic firefighting skills and basic rescue skills. As far as having people out there in the public that are untrained – no, that doesn't happen, not in this State. All of the firefighters in Delaware that are riding fire apparatus today have the basic firefighting, structural firefighting and vehicle rescue skills. Some of the things that might be added to that would be an emergency vehicle operators’ course that will help them safely get from home to the fire station as well as a basic first responder first aid class.

Rep. Kowalko asked whether there is or should be some type of physical criteria that a firefighter has to meet. He doesn’t want to cut into the volunteer force, but he also doesn’t want an individual to be endangered by virtue of the fact that the State is not doing its due diligence in requiring a minimum physical criteria of some sort to enable him to act in those kinds of stressful situations.

Mr. Ricker stated that fire departments in Delaware do require a physical prior to someone joining the fire company. The DVFA has a program encouraging seasoned firefighters to get physicals a little later in life and to keep up regular blood pressure screening and things like that. Sadly most firefighters die of heart attacks at fires, they don't get killed in the fire. The fire service has made great strides in the last few years as far as health care screening right on the scene.

Pages 10 & 11 of the Draft Report.

Sen. Bonini asked whether the State needs to play a greater role in auditing operations in fire companies?

Mr. Ricker stated that the penalties were much different in the original version of the Commission’s bill. There are some penalties but the Commission is very confident that every fire company is going to turn in its audit.

Sen. Sokola asked how much money the Commission handles.

Mr. Ricker replied that most of the money that the Commission handles is a pass through. The Commission has never been audited. Sen. Sokola stated that an actual audit of the Commission probably wouldn't be too cumbersome for the State Auditor to do.

Rep. Kowalko asked if the Commission has access to the proposed budgets for all the individual fire departments.

Mr. Roberts replied that the Commission does not have access to the fire departments’ budget however, they do get their audits.

Sen. Bonini asked what percentage of the operating budget for the fire companies are state dollars or federal dollars.

Mr. Ricker stated that he does not know that.

Sen. Bonini stated that these are quasi-public organizations receiving significant state money and significant public dollars and the public should be able to look at the incoming and outgoing dollars of each fire company.

Page 22 & 23 of the Draft Report.

Sen. Bonini asked for an explanation regarding how boundaries are decided and how conflicts are resolved.

Mr. Ricker replied that the boundaries that exist today have been boundaries that have been in place for quite some time. Normally if there is a boundary dispute or a boundary question, the Commission will ask the companies who are involved to sit down with each other to try to figure out a solution to the boundary issue amongst themselves. If the boundary dispute can't be settled in a gentlemanly fashion between the companies involved, the Commission puts together a committee which includes members of the DVFA. This Committee acts as a mediator. Mr. Ricker is not aware of any boundary disputes that are out there today. These boundaries were confirmed by the Commission last year or the year before. The Commission looked at the maps in the 911 centers that the fire service was currently delivering service to and certified those maps, sent letters out to each of the fire departments asked each department to contact the Commission if there were any boundary questions or boundary problems. Once the boundaries were certified, the fire companies were again invited to comment. There was 1 issue in Kent County. The Fire Chiefs of each of the districts discussed the best solution to be able to deliver service to the citizens. The Commission approved the resolution.

Sen. Bonini commented that the demographic progression of the population is moving significantly and as such, the Senator asked how that affects the Commission and what does the Commission do to adjust to that progression.

Mr. Ricker said that that progression is evident in the Middletown and beach areas. He provided the following example: The Millville area near Ocean View, Millville realized that they were having severe problems getting ambulance attendants and firefighters to the fire station due to the amount of traffic that is in that area. The fire department decided to open a substation which will put apparatus closer to an area of residences, but more importantly it allows firefighters to be able to get to the fire apparatus a little easier and faster than having to go to their main station. Most of the time it is the fire department itself that looks at how their area is changing, they make the decisions to put out the money.

Sen. Bonini asked whether the State provides funding.

Mr. Ricker replied that a substation gets a little more money, but it is no where near what they need.

Sen. Bonini stated that it appears that perhaps there needs to be a more flexible and responsive process regarding substations.

Pages 24 & 25 of the Draft Report.

Sen. Sokola stated that governing statute needs some work and the Committee looks forward to working with the Commission and the Deputy Attorney General in that regard.

Page 26 of the Draft Report.

The comments made at this public hearing, as well as the Points for Consideration will be listed as Proposed JSC Recommendations. The Proposed Recommendations will be shared with the Commission prior to the next JSC meeting. Some of the recommendations will require statutory changes and some will probably just be regulatory matters.

IV. Public Comments

Mr. Warren Jones made the following statement:

I am the President of the DE Volunteer Firemen's Association and as President, I represent 61 fire departments in the state of Delaware including the city of Wilmington who are members of our association. It is their opinion and their recommendation to continue with the Fire Service Commission as a governing body of fire service in Delaware. When you look at why, I think you need to look at who is the best to do this job. In order to govern the Fire Service, you really need folks who understand the fire service. Having people with no fire service background, with the – I guess, having a group of firefighters doing the budget for the state of Delaware would be (comment by Sen. Bonini – would be an improvement – laughs) – would be an improvement, but today the fire service is integrated and is diversified. Words like hazardous materials and special operations and career staff, emergency medical services dominate our services today. It is not the old days where we used to grab a flap off of the track and put the field fire out. It is completely different – it is a lot different than when I joined 40 years ago. But we also need people who understand it. As you were talking earlier about the difference between the industry part of the Commission and the fire service part of the Commission, but when you look at it, we all wear 2 hats. In the volunteer fire service, we are volunteers and we also have other professions that we are involved with. So we all have at least 2 hats. I probably wear 4 myself…so that is important to take a look at. But I think looking at the Commissioners, you have a list of who they are and where they are from and which group they represent, but I don't know if you have a list of their accomplishments, of what they've done over the years.

If you look at the chairman, he is the Past President of the Carlyle Fire Company in Milford. He is the Past President of the Kent County Volunteer Firemen's Assoc, and the DVFA. He represents industry but he is also operates his own business. He knows about meeting payroll and making ends meet.

The vice chairman is the Past President of the…Chief of the Georgetown Fire Department. As Bob already said he is the past instructor with the fire school. He runs his own business as well and he has the distinction of being the past Mayor of Georgetown so he has some political background.

Bill Betts is the Past Chief of Frederica and past instructor of the Fire School. Ken McMahon isn't here today who is probably the senior member of the Commission, was the Past Chief of the Christiana Fire Co. Christiana is the busiest fire department in the state of Delaware, even busier than the city of Wilmington many, many times over if you add the fire and the EMS calls. Dave Roberts is the Past Chief of…and he is the Chief of emergency communications in New Castle County, our busiest and our most populated state. Ron Marvel is Past Chief of Seaford, Past President of DVFA and Past President of Sussex County Volunteer Firemen's Assoc. Ron also has the distinct…of being the most active person in his company for about the last 20 years. He has served on that top list, so he is on the street – he understands what is happening every day. I saved the youngest and newest person until last, and that is Doug Murray. Doug is Past Chief of the Bethany Beach Fire Co. and Past President of the Sussex County Firemen's Assoc. He is the future of the fire service and he is involved in the Commission today and that is good. He is a person who understands the future of the Commission and understands the Fire Service. I just briefly described the commissioners and I wanted to point them out that they are experts in their field and it is not just this group that is here now. If you go back to the history of the Commission, you will see names like Phil Donahue, and Carlton Carey, ….Dougherty, - those kinds of people from all over our state who are really what I consider the cream of the crop and that seems to be the way we have ended up as far as the Commission is concerned. They come from every geographic area of the state as we just said, and you said how we work together. That is basically the truth, whether it is from the northern New Castle County or from Sussex County, these gentlemen work together and work together as a very fine group.

You also mentioned earlier about whether they are doing the job that needs to be done, and I can say, yes, they are doing the job that needs to be done and through their history, they have not been afraid to make the tough decisions. They have answered those questions and faced some tough decisions through the districts and commissions, so that's why I think we need the Commission in place, and that's why I think we need to keep the folks like these to stay in control of the fire service. I would like to go to the next agency, if you don't mind.

I want to talk about the Fire School for a minute. Again, our 61 fire companies have expressed the opinion that we think the DE State Fire School needs to remain under the control of the Commission. The Fire School is probably the premier firefighting in this country. They have a national reputation that started almost from the time of the fire school existed in the 60's. The first director, Lou…set the tone for that fire service training. They set the tone with a program called sequential training. Prior to that development, firefighters especially in the State of Delaware would go once a year for some kind of training and whether that be one weekend or 2 weekends, but when the fire school got started, they developed this sequential training where they went through a plateau and they go to Firefighter I and Firefighter II and Firefighter III and they would progress up the ladder and that program has been adopted all throughout this country. You know from reading the material submitted to you that the fire school is approved by the Pro board, the certified firefighters…fire instructors. That is one part of the fire school. The fire school has never been one to sit on its laurels. It continues to refresh its training curriculum that you talked about earlier. It continues to add electives, those extensive lists. The list goes from vehicle anatomy to hazardous materials to ice rescue, to confined space rescue to rapid intervention, firefighter survival and the list goes on and on and on again. Its director Robert Newnam and his staff are dedicated and committed to the educational process and they certainly are experts in their field. The Fire School is a shining light in the state of Delaware and has been successful I feel because of the umbrella of the Commission because they are working under that umbrella and the Commission… are working under fire service people who understand the fire service and understand the fire service people.

The same would be in line for the State Fire Marshal's Office. We also concur and would like and it is the opinion of our companies that they would like the Fire Marshal's Office to also remain under the control of the Commission. The Fire Marshal's Office is an integral part of the fire service in Delaware. Their team works in partnerships of Fire Chiefs all throughout our state, and they have led to many accomplishments and innovations. The Fire Marshal's Office under the direction of Fire Marshall Ingle just doesn't investigate fires or inspect buildings, they are heavily involved in prevention and life saving…. You know what their duties and responsibilities are because you have read their report. But I would like to reiterate some on going initiatives that I think are extremely important. One of them is the partnership between the fire marshal's office, between the fire companies in the state of Delaware, between the DE Volunteer Firemen's Assoc., and a program called Wake-up Delaware. Wake-up Delaware was started when 11 people died in a house fire… . Because of the partnership of the fire service working together in this state, we are on the verge of distributing our 100,000th free smoking…, and we were planning on doing that this Spring in the area where that first occurred in the…area. Basically to symbolically pay homage to the tragedy of that day, but also to reinforce to everyone that fire safety is… . The Fire Marshal's Office has taken smoke detectors to the next level with hardwire detectors and with hearing impaired detectors for that. One of their other main programs is the Juvenile Fire Setter Intervention program. Their false fire alarm as you read is the first in the nation. Their list of accomplishments goes on and on and on as the fire schools list of accomplishments goes on and on and on. They have been successful because I feel the system [they are under…]… the fire service system. You look at most major metropolitan areas in our country and even if you look at the major cities, you will see that fire investigations, fire prevention units, firefighting units are usually under the jurisdiction of the fire service. Protection investigation extinguishment are so intertwined that they need to be together in order for them to be effective and efficient. I've been in management or a part of business all my life as far as the management part of it is concerned, and I've learned that you have to know 2 things. You have to know your customer, you have to know your products. In the fire service our customers are you folks and the rest of the citizens of the state of Delaware. Our products, or at least the delivery of our products is extremely paramount because lives literally depend on it.

In Delaware to deliver the products you need coordination, cooperation and management. Our fire commission, fire school, the fire marshal's office, the fire companies work together as that team and they've been delivering that service for almost 200 years, even though the Commission hasn't been around that long. That is why the fire service has made the recommendations that we make today. If you make those recommendations being only experienced of what happens out there on the street, we know how these folks work and how we all work together and to end, I would like to say we want to continue that the entities to stay the way they are and that the Commission remains as the governing body of fire service. Thank you.

There was a discussion about smoke detectors.

Mr. Adam Gould made the following statement:

I'm Adam Gould from Artesian Water Company, and Assistant Manager of the Planning Department. I would like to take a moment tonight to talk about an issue that we have providing water service to existing communities with private systems. We have – Artesian has provided a letter late last week in reference to this issue and I would like to hit on a couple of points in that letter. We are continually approached over the last couple of years by some private communities that have private water treatment systems and private distribution systems. Those systems are antiquated and I wouldn't say they are falling apart, but they could use repairs, and communities don't always have the necessary funds to make those repairs. So they come to the local water company and ask for a connection to our public system to provide domestic water so that they don't have to maintain their private water treatment plant and also operate that plant.

The current regs, the interpretation of the current Fire Prevention regulations prohibit that because the current regulations state that it would be an extension of the water company's franchise area and that fire protection must be provided. So we are stuck between a rock and a hard place as far as the community is concerned because the community does not have the money to revamp their internal distribution system to provide the fire protection that a public water company would provide and the public water company can't improve the private system – we could improve the private system but then that cost would be transferred over to the existing rate base – the existing current customers of the water system. So what we are looking at is that history is going to repeat itself because the water company can't provide fire protection on the private side, the community will band-aid their existing water plant and therefore they are not going to provide enough water for fire protection and it is just an nonstop cycle, so we never make the connection to provide domestic service to that community and they never make any improvements to their distribution system or provide fire protection, so what we would like to propose is an amendment to the current regulations that would incorporate the allowance of a connection to the domestic – a domestic connection to the private system as well as providing a public fire hydrant at the entrance to that system that Artesian would own and maintain on a yearly basis as the regs require and we would like to work with the Office of the State Fire Marshal and the DE State Fire Prevention Commission and the other water companies that are involved in this issue to amend the regulations to allow for this domestic connection.

Sen. Sokola said that in the summary of the Federal stimulus package there were two capital line items for Delaware - one for drinking water and one for clean water. Ms. Puzzo will contact the Division of Public Health to inquire as to whether these communities could upgrade their systems with the stimulus money.

Mr. Esposito stated that to get projects qualified for the incentive funding, they are "shovel ready" type projects and the issues discussed at this meeting by Artesian and Tidewater are not municipal systems which would probably be eligible for these funds, and not a private manufactured home community, they would have to have been in a queue to qualify for these funds because it is going to be first in, first used, and the rest of the money is going to go elsewhere.

Mr. Esposito made the following statement:

I thought I would follow the presentation from Artesian and would keep my remarks short because I have something very similar to what Mr. Gould just presented, so thanks for listening. My name is Gerry Esposito. I'm President of Tidewater utilities. To my right is Kirstin Higgins, and she is our Director of Water Planning and Development. I've been with Tidewater for about 11 years. I have extensive experience with the Fire Commission and the State Fire Marshal's Office. I will try to keep my 3 to 5 minute remarks to that, and first start by saying that we are very satisfied with the current Administration and the State Fire Marshal's office. As an ex-regulator, having spent 20 years at the NRC, I can appreciate the difficulties of important state regulations and positions. I can confidently say that the State Fire Marshal's Office and the Commission working relationship with Tidewater is much better than it has been in a long, long time. In this context, the reason I'm here today is that Tidewater is probably best known for the State Fire Marshal appeal that we filed back about 4 or 5 years ago that was settled in October of 2007. There was a settlement agreement that came to the conclusion for 65 different communities that Tidewater serves on the very issue that Mr. Gould just represented to you. The case was about…fire protecting, one particular community called Whispering Pines in Sussex County where we were trying to upgrade and do exactly what Mr. Gould said. Try to make an improvement to the system – it triggered under the regulations and the interpretation of the regulations full fire protection because it was viewed to be an extension of our franchise. The settlement agreement also allowed for a case by case review going forward which was something that we settled for but now it seems right to view it because I can quote from that settlement case we would agree to deal with these current matters going forward, "in lieu of developing and implementing new lengthy and complicated regulations." Our position is that a statutory change is necessary to allow utility to correct or improve water supply quality or pressure situation in a perspective new community. An extension or an acquisition can be viewed as an expansion that loses what we call previous grandfathering protection rights. Because of a weakness in the statute, broad interpretation is allowed in the regulations which likewise could be improved. The upshot is that anytime an existing Tidewater "grandfathered community" is considered for an upgrade or "major improvement", that was also a part of our settlement, that may be significant by the judgment of the administration or prior fire protection would be required and in the case of our Superior Court Appeal case, we estimated the costs to fully fire protect those 65 plus communities would be between $35 to $50 million dollars. The result of those interpretations is a decision by our company, like Artesian, to avoid the upgrade. We just don't do it. So our customers don't benefit. Our future customers don't benefit and their service does not get better and they continue like about 65 other communities right now to be on the Div. of Public Health violation list for being in violation of some kind of drinking water standard, or some other problem.

In the so called Whispering Pine case, we reached a settlement and we reached a settlement on Whispering Pines and did so on 64 other communities. If the law and the regulations would allow the consideration of economic feasibility and improvement and/or even phasing in those improvements, it could give some certainty to process so that we could finance and possibly include some of these costs into our rate base if that was desirable. Let me conclude by saying that I had a case study that I could give you tonight. It is probably not the right forum, but rather than do that, I would be actually willing and anxious to present to the Commission, to the Committee, anyone, to work with Artesian and others to draft an amendment to the law and changes to the regulations that would make this more workable and more realistic and more practical. And we stand by ready to help out. Thank you.

Rep. Kowalko asked Mr. Esposito if the following statement was correct: “The way the law is structured now, if there is a failing potable water system, or delivery system, the water company cannot offer relief because they are required to meet certain regulations, specifications for fire prevention access.”

Mr. Esposito replied “yes.” He also stated “… it could be a subdivision, it could be a mobile home community, it could be a strip mall with the options that they face, and again, having been a regulator, and having also discussed this with our colleagues in the Div. of Public Health, what happens is the preferred solution and it was given in testimony in our appeal through the Fire Commission by the way that went to the Superior Court, the preferred solution is to connect to a central water supply system, and the example that I can tell you about is a place in Kent County called the Flying Dutchman which is literally 100 feet across the street from a fire hydrant that is fully fire protected, but can't be connected to because the interconnection would cost maybe $100,000, maybe less. But once it is connected in that little community of about 90 some homes, which has been on and off nitrate and bacteria public notice for over a decade, we would have to pay somewhere about $750,000 to fully fire protect it, so what happens is, there is no improvement made and communities like that come off and go on a public notice requirement and the customers have less than superior water.”

Rep. Kowalko stated that one of his fears would be leaving those communities with inadequate water safety health wise. There are two separate issues – fire prevention provision and the potable water provision. As a member of the manufactured housing subcommittee, if these issues are not addressed, there could be a high cost investment bordering on the backs of those occupants of the homes that are now being burdened unfairly and unreasonably with their rents.

Mr. Esposito stated that Tidewater’s outside counsel has drafted amendments to the law and to the regulations to address these issues.

Sen. Sokola stated that he would like to invite the Public Advocate, Public Service Commission, and any other consumer advocates to join in discussions.

V. Concluding remarks (JSC)

Rep. Atkins made the following comment:

To the members of the Fire Commission, Mrs. Lambertson, I know we have never met, but I do know a lot of these guys, and I do know that you probably deserve a medal keeping these guys together. But on a serious note to the Commission, I want to thank you for the oversight and the job you did establishing the bill to propose the Burn Camp here in Delaware. The Burn Camp was just recently passed by the House and will be acted on by the Senate hopefully. But I didn't plan to make this speech and if I get a little choked up in the middle, I'm sorry, but I just feel compelled to tell you a little bit about what the Burn Camp means to me and the hard work that you guys have done. In 1978, my best friend, and I know Biff and probably Mr. Marvel, Bob, maybe even you, Doug, know Troy Rogers. Troy is a very prominent farmer in Sussex County. In 1978, we were 8 years old and Troy grew up on a farm, and he'd killed his first dove. He was excited and ran across the road on an ATV – they actually own a farm on both sides of the road. Coming back across to show his grandfather, this dove that he had killed on his ATV, he was struck by a car. I've heard his grandfather tell this story many times that he heard the explosion in the chicken house and he ran about half the length of this building to Rt. 20 out near Heart scrapple, and the only way that he knew that it was Troy, - there were 2 piles of fire, literally, in the middle of the road. One was the mini-bike, and one was his grandson. And the only other difference he knew was that Troy was screaming for help. At that time, they couldn't wait for an emergency medical vehicle and ambulance. Mr. Conaway loaded Troy up in his pickup and took him to Nanticoke Hospital. From the time they wheeled him into the ER until they actually said they couldn't do anything for him at Nanticoke, they flew him to Philadelphia. From the time they wheeled him into the ER and made that decision to wheel him back out, he had swelled so much from the burns, that his own grandfather didn't know who he was. He made the comment to one of the nurses, 'I don't know who that young boy is, but he is in really bad shape.' During the flight to Philly, I think the Crosier Burn Center, the helipad was full. They ended up landing Troy in center field of Veterans Stadium where the Phillies used to play. Troy missed the whole 3rd grade. He was in the hospital more than 200 days. I was fortunate enough to, me and my other friend, Kenny Warrington, our parents would take us up on weekends, and we would spend the weekend to try to bring him some kind of normalcy. It just – I've seen what the burns do to a victim first hand. I can remember as they would change the gauze and his bandages at 8 years old, he would literally beg the doctors and nurses and his parents to let him die. It hurt that bad as they changed the gauze – he was burnt over 80% of his body, and the parts that weren't burnt, they actually took skin from those parts for skin grafts. I'm proud to say today that Troy made it through all of that. He is a very successful farmer. He is happily married with 5 kids. We were the best man at each other's weddings. Troy never let the burns and scars affect him. We went to the beach. He was always the first one to take his shirt off, he wrestled, and he excelled in wrestling in high school. He was an all-state athlete in track. So I know Troy is very excited about this Burn Camp as am I. Rep. Lee, I want to thank you for the work in sponsoring that bill, and I just wanted to let you guys know that that will make the difference in some burn victims lives as they grow older and attend this camp, hopefully. I have seen the affects first hand of what happens when a young child gets burned and I want to thank you and really everybody. How many of you guys are volunteer firemen out in the audience – just raise your hand. I know I speak for the rest of the Committee when we are laying in our beds at night and we hear the fire whistles go off in our community, and we are certainly grateful for the job that you do, and I know I am thanking for the rest of the Committee in the job that you do, and I just can't say enough for what you do in the community. You certainly make our lives a lot easier. Thank you.

Sen. Sokola stated that the record will stay open for the next two weeks with regard to written comments.

Office of the State Fire Marshal

VI. Overview of the Sunset Process (JSC Chair)

Sen. Sokola provided an overview of the JSC as well as the review process. The State Fire Marshal will have an opportunity to address the Committee and then the Committee members will ask questions. The Committee will meet with the State Fire Marshal at a later date to discuss suggested recommendations.

( Opening Comments by the Office of the State Fire Marshall

Mr. Ingle made the following comments:

Thank you, Senator Sokola, Representative Kowalko, and members of the Sunset Committee, Commissioners, general public and fellow colleagues. Thank you. My name is Grover Ingle. I am the State Fire Marshal. I'm happy to be able to come before you and talk on behalf of the Office of the State Fire Marshal. As you can see in the history that was developed in the beginning of the booklet with the State Fire Commission, Fire Marshal, the Office of the State Fire Marshal, has been around since 1955. We are in our 55th year. I can say that I've been here for 18½ years myself and been a State Fire Marshal since June of 2007 and the Office has evolved a great deal since that time, all for the better and we continue to evolve and to work every day. We are here to serve the public. We are here to make sure that the public has a safe place to visit, to work with them, and to enjoy the many venues that they can within the State of Delaware. We will work very hard at doing that not only with investigating fires and explosion incidents, but also with doing public safety work as far as prevention, inspections, new building plans, and so on.

We also have evolved over the year with the changes of our regulations in trying to clean up the current regulations where there may be some areas of concern or things that maybe just don't apply today. Back in 1997, the Commission adopted a change that on every 3 years, we would look at the regulations in total to adopt some national standards that come into play for the current time and not be living by some antiquated standards that are out there. Every year, I'm required to report to the Commission any proposed changes that we may need through the regulations to make it a little bit better. Of course at doing that, we have to look at what is the impact it is going to have on the general public. What the impact it is going to have on the Service, not just from the safety standpoint but also from the financial standpoint and make sure that there are no really major impacts that is going to envision somebody. As the agency who works independently under the Commission, we are the enforcer of the laws for which they promulgate, so we have to make sure that when we present those laws to them, and those regulations to look at, and there are national standards, that they are something that are acceptable. And we do so through the public process involving the public. Just recently in one of the regulations that we are working on, we had a committee put together not just numbers of the fire service, my staff, the fire department, but architects, engineers, builders and publicize those meetings for the general public to come to be involved in a working group. You've heard Mr. Gould and Mr. Esposito talk from the water utilities standpoint of an issue they have which is a serious issue, but there are some other issues that surround that as to why the systems got in the state that they got in over the years, but we do have a serious issue.

I recently met with Mr. Gould and Ken Branner from Artesian. I have met with Mr. Esposito and will be meeting so again next week to discuss this very issue. And the issue I put on the table to Artesian was that you bring the players to the table being water supply to water utilities to drinking water people, and anybody you feel that is necessary, and we will sit down and constructively look at this issue and see if there is something that we can do to address the existing problem that is out there with existing communities. This is for existing communities that have been there and not for new communities that have come about. Everybody agrees that there are new communities out there should be able to conform with the current standards and regulations that are out there. So we've been able to do that and part of being able to do that is being able to work with other external organizations over the years. I would just like to say that I appreciate the opportunity to work with Ms. Puzzo in putting this report together. It was a new venture for us and she was very helpful and I look forward to the outcome of this session. Thank you.

( Question and Answer with JSC

Page 3 of the Draft Report.

Sen. Sokola referred to the 3rd to the last bullet point under Mission – "Investigating the origin and cause of any fire or explosion occurring in the State." The Senator asked whether the Fire Marshal investigates incidents at Valero.

Mr. Ingle replied no not unless there was a fire involved. Normally that type of investigation is done by the DNREC. However, the Office of the State Fire Marshal works hand in hand with DNREC and the State Police.

Sen. Sokola asked whether the Code should be change to specifically authorize the Fire Marshal jurisdiction over inspections at Valero.

Mr. Ingle stated that there are concerns that once a new tank is put into place or once something is done in the facility, if it does not involve dealing with the fire regulations, the State Fire Marshal doesn’t normally look at the plan or do an inspection. Nobody is in there on a regular basis inspecting those things.

Rep. Kowalko asked whether the Office of the State Fire marshal has ever been involved in any of the discussions regarding underground propane storage, or does that happen at a federal level or under OSHA’s purview?

Mr. Ingle stated that that happens on the federal and OSHA level. With regards to underground tanks in general, not just propane, normally DNREC does the underground tanks for the environmental portion of it and the State Fire Marshal looks at any fire potential, like if there is any connection to another fuel source and the valves usually above it.

Pages 10 & 11 of the Draft Report.

Sen. Bushweller asked if there are any income requirements with regard to the Fire Detection Fund.

Mr. Ingle replied that during the application process they do look at the income. If somebody is in a position to be able to afford the smoke detectors, they don't go on the top of the list if there are other people who are waiting or in more of a dire need. The intent of the program was to provide for homes with handicapped children, homes with handicapped adults, homes with infirm residents and homes with residents 62 years of age and older.

Sen. Bushweller stated that on page 11 under Challenges, the first challenge is the residential sprinkler issue. The Senator asked for a general cost estimate for sprinklers in a new home being built today of average size, 2,500 sq. ft.

Mr. Ingle replied that the cost could be anywhere from $1.65 sq. ft. to $4.50 sq. ft.

Sen. Bushweller asked whether the Office of the Fire Marshal has a problem with staff retention.

Mr. Ingle replied “no.” He stated the Office of the Fire Marshal likes to keep its employees for a long time.

Sen. Sokola asked the Fire Marshal to provide the public with information about maintenance for wired smoke detectors, including the fact that the batteries need to be changed. The Senator suggested that perhaps there cold be a website to which people can be directed to learn more.

Mr. Ingle said his office will look into this and start to include the information in some public service announcements in conjunction with other programs.

Pages 12 & 13 of the Draft Report.

Rep. Kowalko asked if municipalities have their own Fire Marshals.

Mr. Ingle replied that the municipalities that have their own fire marshal are the City of Dover and the City of Newark. The City of New Castle has a Building Inspector/Fire Marshal, who has primary jurisdiction in the City of Wilmington.

Rep. Kowalko asked what organization promulgates the regulations regarding the inspection of child care facilities.

Mr. Ingle stated that the Department of Children, Youth and their Families only states that the child care facility must be inspected by the State Fire Marshal. The State Fire Marshal conducts inspections pursuant to the Fire Marshal’s regulations and safety codes. The Fire Marshal provides the facility with documentation stating that the facility has been inspected and meets the requirements, or there are violations that they need to correct.

Mr. Ingle stated that the relationship between the Office of the Fire Marshal and the day care centers has improved over the years. The Fire Marshal has been working with the Office of Child Care Licensing, explaining what the Fire Marshal’s role is, explaining the regulations and advising them that they can’t promulgate regulations that infringe on the State Fire Marshal’s jurisdiction.

Sen. Sokola referenced the statement that the Office of the State Fire Marshal provides instructors for the State Police Academy and the New Castle County Police Academy for arsons investigations and fire arm instruction. The Senator asked for an explanation for firearms instruction.

Mr. Ingle stated that 2 individuals from the Office of the Fire Marshal attended the DE State Police firearms instructor training program. These two individuals have become range officers and make sure the Fire Marshals and Deputies meet the minimum qualifications. They also provide firearms instruction at the range just like the police do. These individuals can also assist the DE State Police with training.

Sen. Sokola asked if this was a statutory requirement.

Mr. Ingle replied that it is not a statutory requirement.

Sen. Bushweller stated that Fire Marshals are required to go through the police academy, so they do have firearms training.

Mr. Ingle stated that there is additional training required to be a firearms instructor and the need to get recertified every couple of years.

Pages 14 & 15 of the Draft Report.

In FY’09 the number of temporary/contractual employees (10) remains the same as FY’08. These employees are paid for with money through the appropriated special funds. These temporary/contractual employees take some of the burden off the Deputy Fire Marshal's by doing inspections.

Pages 20 & 21 of the Draft Report.

Sen. Bushweller stated that the charts in the report indicate that no application for any kind of license was rejected. The Senator asked if that is because everybody knows what the standards are.

Mr. Ingle stated that yes in some case. In other cases, depending on the type of license if they fill out the application form and have the required forms, there are generally no issues, so there is really no need to reject any of them. Regarding the issuance of permits for an event like a fireworks display or a public assembly permits are not issued until any violations, if there are any, are taken care of.

Sen. Bushweller asked if that is the same reason why no licenses were suspended or revoked.

Mr. Ingle stated that is correct.

Pages 26 & 27 of the Draft Report.

Sen. Bushweller asked if the Juvenile Fire Setter Intervention program has 3 full time people.

Mr. Ingle replied the three employees are strategically located throughout the state. Currently there is one vacancy and one employee is on maternity leave. They perform juvenile interviews and intervention. Last month the program involved 17 kids. There is a program called Fire Education and Arson Awareness that is geared towards middle schools because there was a lot of trouble in middle schools with fire starting tendencies either within the school, on the property or in the area. The program started in 4 schools, and now 8 schools throughout the state who had the biggest problems are involved. The number of incidences in the middle school, have decreased since the programs. When that employee is not teaching, they are staying in the school, like a school resource officer from the police and if somebody wants to come talk to them about fire setting tendencies with themselves or someone they know, the employee takes that information and we hand it off to one of the intervention coordinators and they make contact with the family.

There was a discussion about inspections of day care facilities and home schools by the Fire Marshal. The Office of the Fire Marshal worked with the Office of Child Care licensing to define a home school.

Delaware State Fire School

IX. Overview of the Sunset Process (JSC Chair)

Sen. Sokola provided an overview of the JSC as well as the review process. The Director of the State Fire School will have an opportunity to address the Committee and then the Committee members will ask questions. The Committee will meet with the Director at a later date to discuss suggested recommendations.

( Opening Comments by the Delaware State Fire School

Mr. Newnam made the following comments:

I'm Robert Newnam, Director of the Delaware State Fire School and I want to thank you for the opportunity to address the Committee. I've been a part of the DE State Fire School for 35 years, as a student, instructor, senior instructor, and now its director. DE State Fire School is the result of dedicated persons seeing needs for formalized state-wide training. In 1964, that dream became a reality when the Legislature passed a State statute paving the way for development, construction, staffing, and formal curriculum of the DE State Fire School. With the foresight of the Legislature, the oversight body assigned this undertaking to the DE Fire Prevention Commission, understanding that this body possessed both the ability and the working relationship of the firefighters of Delaware to ensure a quality school.

By 1967, the buildings were built, the staff was in place, the state-wide formal training began in earnest for the firefighters in Delaware.

By the early 70's the DE State Fire School was charged with the development and delivery of standardized state-wide ambulance attendance program. During this period of time, the school continued with additional courses and programs.

By the early 80's the need for additional classroom space at the Dover Center was recognized and with the support of the Legislature, an additional 6 classrooms that are state-of-the-art were added. It was during this time that the school also implemented national certification testing on a volunteer basis for Firefighter I and II along with Fire Instructor I and II.

In the late 80's, planning began for construction of satellite training centers in Sussex County near Georgetown and in New Castle County. These training divisions would allow for classroom presentations and refresher training in live structural fire attack and flammable gas. With these additions, the firefighters in Sussex and New Castle would be provided additional training opportunities.

Again, the Legislature afforded these efforts in the Sussex Division that is open for business in the Spring of 1992 and the New Castle Division off of Old Airport Rd. was opened in 1997. In the recent years, the school has been a vital part of the upgrade of the ambulance attendance program to the national register program delivering additional EMS programs, continuing education programs, and refresher programs of the highest quality. Delaware State Fire School staff conducts ambulance inspections thereby ensuring the proper equipment is on the ambulances within the state, and in addition verifies the applicant's applications for EMT-B certification and produces certifications cards for all Delaware EMTs.

The Fire Rescue and Hazards Materials training has kept pace with the demands and the needs of the ever changing fire service. From providing additional national certification opportunities to firefighters, fire safety programs from promoting newer methods of firefighting to leadership programs. All of this and more was made possible by the support of the Governor, the State Legislature, but just as important was the support and continued support of the State Fire Prevention Commission.

It is important to note that the current format of the State Fire School and the State Fire Marshall placed under the Commission has served the citizens well and will continue to do so for years to come. This format allows this agency to function without the cumbersome bureaucracy sometimes found in other state agencies. The School has direct contact with our students and clients on a daily basis and the Commission is also in a position to listen to the needs of our clients and to provide meaningful direction to the School. The current format has developed over the years allowing for an agency to be responsive to the needs of our clients. If a policy at the School needs changing, it may be done in a timely fashion. If a lesson plan needs updating, it can be done quickly. There is no other agency that is in such a good position to serve their clients as ours.

This review is an opportunity for the Committee, the State Legislators, along with the State Fire Prevention Commission to enhance the already strong relationship to improve as needed, strengthen as required, those ideas and principles that have contributed to our success while maintaining that relationship which has provided the opportunity for the DE State Fire School to grow, succeed, and to provide continued success in the future, a future that will allow all those involved from the Commissioner's to the employees to meet the future requirements of both our clients and the citizens of Delaware. Thank you, Sir.

( Question and Answer with JSC

Sen. Bonini asked Mr. Newnam if the Fire School agreed with the Commission with regard to a minimum standard certification of firefighters and other personnel.

Mr. Newnam replied that the Fire School supports the position in regards to DE certification for volunteer firefighters.

Rep. Kowalko asked if the Fire School provides any on site training at the refineries

Mr. Newnam replied that the Fire School has conducted those training sessions on the grounds of Valero. They are trained to a national standard.

Pages 8 & 9 of the Draft Report.

Sen. Sokola said that under Background Checks it states that the proposed budget withdrew $10,000 for criminal history checks. The Senator asked how much is typically spent on criminal history checks.

Mr. Newnam replied between probably $8,000 and $10,000 depending on the number of students that come through the program yearly. The cost could be passed on to the local fire department for the ambulance associations to pick up the cost. However statute mandates that the Commission has to pay for it. So if the funding is withdrawn, it would be difficult for the Commission.

Sen. Sokola stated that this will be problematic. If they are required to pay it, we've got to figure out a way to get them the money.

Pages 10 & 11 of the Draft Report.

Sen. Bushweller pointed out that most of the Fire School’s classes are held on the weekend, obviously because most people work Monday through Friday. The Senator asked whether the Fire School is considering holding classes during the week to accommodate volunteers who no longer work the traditional Monday through Friday work week. The Senator stated that he recognizes that there is a cost attached to that.

Mr. Newnam replied that the Fire School is moving in that direction. Although most of the programs are held on weekends, the Fire School is offering the Fire Officer program in the evenings at the Dover Center and at the Regional Center. Additionally, the EMT-B classes are being offered in the evenings and on weekends. There is also an EMT-B program that runs 3 weeks in a row during June.

Sen. Bonini stated that Kent General/BayHealth no longer offers EMT training. The Senator asked where individuals can now receive training.

Mr. Newnam stated that the Fire School provides excellent training and there are also a couple of private agencies. The Fire School has not seen any decrease in the number of EMT-B's applying for certification in the State. The pass rate for federal certification in Delaware is around 80%..

X. Public Comments (3 minutes per person)

Rep. Kowalko read the following letter from Rep. Carson:

Dear Members of the Joint Sunset Committee,

As a former Chief, former President and life member of the Smyrna Fire Department, I would like to express my support for the Delaware State Fire School.

The School was founded in 1964 under then Governor Charles Terry. Through the years, I took many courses there and rose to the rank of senior instructor. The school is well known and has been utilized by many organizations, including paid and volunteer fire departments, industrial fire brigades, ambulance stations, police departments, the Delaware Department of Correction, National Guard troops, and other homeland security related personnel.

Under Director Robert Newnam, the school is now nationally recognized for its excellence in training. I urge you to allow the school to continue to operate in the same efficient and professional manner as it has for the last 15 years.

Sincerely,

William J. Carson, Jr.

Representative, 28th District

c: Robert Newnam, director Delaware State Fire School

XI. Concluding remarks (JSC)

Mr. Sharp invited the members of the Committee to visit the Fire School to see exactly what goes on out there on a Saturday.

Ms. Puzzo stated that the Committee members as well as the fire entities will receive a list of Proposed Recommendations that will include comments from this Public Hearing as well as the Points for Consideration in the Draft Reports: The Committee will hold Committee meetings at which time they will discuss the Proposed Recommendations, the fire entities are requested to attend also.

The record will remain open for at least 2 weeks.

XII. Adjournment

Meeting adjourned at 8:35 p.m.

dap/4-1-09

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